Possible super pinstripes

[snakesRkewl]

How is there really nothing to be gained from a super form of a Pinstripe, especially financially? If you had a super Pin and bred it to a BEL Lesser you would make KingPins in every egg. No chances of anything less. Seams like a pretty good financial gain to me.

I'm not looking to make all the same snakes in one clutch
imo that would be a silly pairing, but I get your point, short term value might be there for some.
Ever try to sell a whole clutch of the same thing, something already semi difficult to sell?

I've said my opinion, let the proof speak for itself.
I wish Thomas luck, always have, he's a good guy
So is Shawn, even if we don't always see eye to eye

[OhhWatALoser]

Ummmmm how is the Platty Daddy Dominant? And if there is a Dominant form of the Pinstripe, how is it that no one else has proven it?

http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/bi...thons_8_07.asp clutch 76, I heard a rumor he made some more this year.

I agree with you there is not much to gain from creating one. a lot of time, effort, and snakes of the opposite sex go into proving one animal out. All that for an animal that looks exactly the same as the heterozygous. As a buisness person, you would not spend the effort because by the time you prove it out, you could be 4+ genes deep into another project, making money along the way. As a hobbyist, we keep these animals mainly because they look cool. so again, we could have this sweet looking quad gene animal, before we end up proving out an animal that looks exactly the same as a heterozygous. It has a coolness factor to it and like all homozygous animals is just as much of a powerhouse of for breeding, but besides that, why spend the time? We agree there.

[Domepiece]

ok for the people saying there is no super form, what do you believe happens when you breed a pin to a pin and the two pin alleles pair up together? imo it is kind of ignorant to say it doesn't exist, it follows our current understanding of genetics and we have evidence of it. You're claiming it works in some other mysterious way, with no explanation besides "I don't believe it."

This is not the spider gene, that is a whole different scenario all together.



anyone else enjoy that?

So what happens when you pair spider to spider and the spider genes match up? shouldnt that happen according to our current understanding of genetics, lol? No, it doesnt. Hows that different? I dont understand your logic

[sflanick]

from what i understand all spider x spider pairings have turned out lethal, so i believe that is what he is saying when he was tlaking about the spider gene but i could be wrong. as for the pin x pin i believe it has a "super" form it just takes to much time/effort to prove it out that it isnt worth it in the eyes of most breeders. like a preiveous post stated the time it would take to prove it out for sure you could be well on your way into 4 gene morphs resseive projects ect.. so although having a "super" pin would be great in a collection as most of us would love to have one i doubt many of us would take the time to prove one out. i know i would'nt i would just roll the dice on "normal" pins like every one else. i dont understand why you guys are taking it so personally if he wants to take the time to prove out a pin then let him who knows he could come back 3 years from now and throw it all back in your face

[TessadasExotics]

http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/bi...thons_8_07.asp clutch 76, I heard a rumor he made some more this year.

So what is this supposed to prove? This does not prove a snake dominant. A Platty does not replicate itself.

[TessadasExotics]

from what i understand all spider x spider pairings have turned out lethal, so i believe that is what he is saying when he was tlaking about the spider gene but i could be wrong. as for the pin x pin i believe it has a "super" form it just takes to much time/effort to prove it out that it isnt worth it in the eyes of most breeders. like a preiveous post stated the time it would take to prove it out for sure you could be well on your way into 4 gene morphs resseive projects ect.. so although having a "super" pin would be great in a collection as most of us would love to have one i doubt many of us would take the time to prove one out. i know i would'nt i would just roll the dice on "normal" pins like every one else. i dont understand why you guys are taking it so personally if he wants to take the time to prove out a pin then let him who knows he could come back 3 years from now and throw it all back in your face

Unfortunatley our understanding of ball python genetics is rudimentary, but most people swear by it and think it is concrete. There can be multiple alleles on a locus. Try to convince anyone that. A locus can be Epistatic. There are so many variables that can happen.

[snakesRkewl]

There are no facts(proof) on spider X spider being lethal, none what so ever.....

Let me get this straight, a dominate pinstripe X pinstripe pairing can produce supers but a dominate spider X spider pairing produces a lethal super?

this gets more interesting all the time

[OhhWatALoser]

So what happens when you pair spider to spider and the spider genes match up? shouldnt that happen according to our current understanding of genetics, lol? No, it doesnt. Hows that different? I dont understand your logic

who says it doesn't happen? there is zero data to make any conclusion off of. So the answer is we don't know whats going on with the spider. Also I don't have any idea what the spider gene has to do with the pinstripe gene? Should we talk about how pastels work also? is that relevant? I dont understand your logic.

from what i understand all spider x spider pairings have turned out lethal, so i believe that is what he is saying when he was tlaking about the spider gene but i could be wrong. as for the pin x pin i believe it has a "super" form it just takes to much time/effort to prove it out that it isnt worth it in the eyes of most breeders. like a preiveous post stated the time it would take to prove it out for sure you could be well on your way into 4 gene morphs resseive projects ect.. so although having a "super" pin would be great in a collection as most of us would love to have one i doubt many of us would take the time to prove one out. i know i would'nt i would just roll the dice on "normal" pins like every one else. i dont understand why you guys are taking it so personally if he wants to take the time to prove out a pin then let him who knows he could come back 3 years from now and throw it all back in your face

there nothing to suggest lethal besides rumors. Everything about the spider gene is inconclusive because we have next to no information. Only good piece of data I have seen is this.... http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...=1#post1847606 which im still hoping they post their final results, but with what they gave us.... it is still inconclusive, but interesting.

So what is this supposed to prove? This does not prove a snake dominant. A Platty does not replicate itself.

Male:	Platinum
Female:	Platinum
Percent	Fraction	Traits
25%	1/4	Super Daddy Gene
50%	1/2	Platinum
25%	1/4	Blue Eye'd Leucistic
View Results Page

Well that animal is not a BEL, nor is it a Platty..... what's left? All it takes is one animal.

Let me get this straight, a dominate pinstripe X pinstripe pairing can produce supers but a dominate spider X spider pairing produces a lethal super?

just a point to bring up, if it is lethal, it will not be classified as dominant anymore

[OhhWatALoser]

Unfortunatley our understanding of ball python genetics is rudimentary, but most people swear by it and think it is concrete. There can be multiple alleles on a locus. Try to convince anyone that. A locus can be Epistatic. There are so many variables that can happen.

to be a smart ass every locus has multiple alleles, normally 2 . My question would be, what discussion were you having where the above had any relevance? (I'm honestly interested) There's plenty that go into the final phenotype of our animals, don't forget epigenetics which opens a big can of worms imo. In theory you could have a pinstripe that looks normal because the expression was turned all the way down. but there hasn't been a reported case of anything resembling it, so why talk about it.

[ZBP]

I feel like a lot of people here don't quite understand that having a super form doesn't mean that there will be any different appearance in the snake, it may look exactly the same, it just only passes on that specific gene. I believe there is a super form for pinstripe and I wish your friend the best of luck in proving these snakes out.

Edit: Just found this too, people should give it a read. http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ominant-Traits