# Ball Pythons > BP Husbandry >  Our snake is going through a bad shed.(Head & neck skin remains)

## Superpop

Admittedly it is totally our own fault for not keeping her humidity at a good level even though we tried to do so with a wet towel on her screen top and by misting but since winter came to minnesota it has been so DRY in the house.

Anyway just a few days ago we got her a new hinged screen top and we did the tin foil treatment as well as put spagnum moss in her enclosure and that fixed the humidity issue....*too late though.*

My boyfriend and I went out of town for a few days about a week ago and had a friend come over to change her water and towel.  We had obviously missed the period when her eyes clouded over when we were gone and then all of a sudden she started to actually shed her skin the same day we "fixed" the humidity problem.  

It's a bad shed....

We tried this method the next day:

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...hed-No-problem.

It helped enormously....nothing came off on the wash cloth but she started rubbing in her enclosure and the next day all of her of her skin was shed from her neck down.   Now she still has to shed the skin on her head and neck.

We tried the " wet pillow case method" the next night but it didn't do anything whatsoever.  Tonight we tried the first method again and now her neck skin is starting to come off. (NOTHING is coming off her head or her eyes though)


We are both feeling VERY bad at this point because we know it's our own fault!  Her humidity is at shedding levels now (70% but we worry about keeping it that high for so long) We don't want her getting a RI.

Snakes shed from the front to the back and at this point her neck will be shed tomorrow but her head is not budging!   Her eyes are messed up looking with dents and some skin has "flaked" around her mouth but IT ISN'T peeling!

I am confident when she gets though this shed she won't have another bad shed considering we fixed her humidity but.....

how can we get her to shed on her head????

I am panicking at this point! :Tears:

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Kymberli (02-21-2011)

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## thedarkwolf25

Typically eye dents mean that she is dehydrated but if your humidity is at 70% then that should change pretty soon. As for the head and eyes I'm not sure, we just got our little girl not long ago and her head shed fine (it was the rest that was a bad shed). Hopefully some of the more experienced members have some advice for you.

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## snakesRkewl

I use 

Sterilite tub with lid
1 to 1 1/2 inches of 85 degree water
towel in water
half log hide on that(the only good use for a half log hide, lol)
the snake will rub its face on the log hide  :Smile: 

30 minute soak and if it's not off then replace water and do 30 more minutes.

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## Superpop

So she now was soaked for the 5th day in a row tonight and still her head skin and spectacles remain. 

As of 2 days ago her eyes are no longer "dented" so I guess that means she is at least no longer dehydrated so that is a baby step in the right direction I guess.   We did try and put a half log in the container for her to rub on while soaking but it didn't help at all.

We have no idea what to do anymore except try a "shed aid" spray.  I did an advanced google search of this entire website to find posts mentioning shed aids and many people say the shed aids have worked for them and many others just say the shed aids are worthless and that doing a soak a day or 2 in a row will do the trick....it's been 5 days in a row now and as I already stated the first soak worked wonders because 75% of her skin was shed by the next morning but there has been very little progress since then because its not like she wants to put her head underwater when she is being soaked and that is now the only problem area.(She has shed completely backwards as only her head and a small area of neck remains to be shed) 

I don't know what else to do at this point other then try a spray...

Going to go to petco tomorrow to get this:

http://www.petco.com/Shop/Product.as...yviewedproduct

at 2.25 fl oz for over 6 bucks it seems ridiculously overpriced but we don't know what else to do at this point.  :Sad:  (of course any further advice would be *VERY WELCOME* though!)

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## Quacking-Terror

When my bp had his first shed with me, it was a bad one.  I put him in a damp pillowcase for 20 minutes at a time (re-wetting the pillowcase after 20 minutes)for about an hour and I gently pulled any loose skin pieces off, eventually doing this I got the skin on his head and neck off, including eyecaps.  Also covering the tank with plastic wrap instead of foil has worked wonders for my humidity levels  :Smile: .  Hope this helps!

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## Superpop

> When my bp had his first shed with me, it was a bad one.  I put him in a damp pillowcase for 20 minutes at a time (re-wetting the pillowcase after 20 minutes)for about an hour and I gently pulled any loose skin pieces off, eventually doing this I got the skin on his head and neck off, including eyecaps.  Also covering the tank with plastic wrap instead of foil has worked wonders for my humidity levels .  Hope this helps!



We were having humidity level problems *before*(When winter first arrived here in MN) but now with the tin foil and moss it is quite easy to even keep it at shedding level humidity....it was too late though.(and when she is finally done shedding we will just remove some of the moss until her humidy levels go back down to 60%)  The tin foil and moss is working though.

While I do appreciate your suggestion her humidity problem is now fixed...and we have no issues even keeping it at even 70% anymore.....it happened too late though.

As for the "pillow case method"   we tried that as well as I have already stated...it didn't do anything for her.(The only thing that worked was her first "soak" but since then....very little progress)

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## dr del

Hi,

The biggest problem is they really do not like having their head touched.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

But sometimes we have to just bite the bullet and do it anyway. They will squirm - and on particularly unpleasant occasions crap all over you.  :Puke: 

Don't waste money on shed aid - just soak her for half an hour and remove the stuck shed by hand. You can use a spray bottle if it starts drying out and sticking.

*BUT* you have to be really careful when you are doing it - especially around her eyes when removing the spectacles.

I usually start by rubbing around the lips at the side of the head to get it started then work forward until I get the nose free and then use that to peel slowly back.

Sometimes they just get lazy and stop trying to shed.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 


dr del

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## Quacking-Terror

Del, I've read that they don't like their heads touched, but when he's not in shed, Gene doesn't seem to mind.  As long as I handle him for a few minutes and slowly work my way up his neck to his head and don't go in from the 'front' of his face so he doesn't see a huge hand coming at him, he doesn't seem to have an issue with it.  I think he's part dog, he's just that relaxed.

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## MitsuMike

Tried to help you before...........I hope you listen now.

Keep doing what your doing (you can do it up to 2 times a day) but more might stress out the guy.
Steps:
-Soak like your doing
-After the soak let the snake do it's thing but try to keep him under somewhat control
-Grab a q-tip and start to rub on the snakes face, if he is still head shy then your going to have to "hold him down". One person hold the snakes head (thumb where the neck and head meet on the top and the index finger under the throat. Don't apply to much pressure but just enough to restrain the snake, we don't want an injury to happen)
-Now the second person needs to just warm water to wet the q-tip and rub the front of the nose where the heat pits are. Keep doing this until you see a separation of the white skin from the real skin. From there just pull back on the skin and just pray the eye caps come with it or your looking at a whole different issue.

Hope this helps

Also high humidity is FINE. As long as you don't have condensation on the walls it's ok to keep the tank at 80% to help with shed. I personally keep the tubs at 80-90% right when the eyes go blue until they shed.

PS that crap at Petco is not worth it. Keep with natural humidity and soaking.

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## Superpop

> Tried to help you before...........I hope you listen now.


First of all I want to say that you were on ignore (Which is advice I was given over private message) after our previous interactions.  The only reason I even saw your reply to this thread is because I wasn't actually logged in at the time.

What you gave me in the other thread was not "advice"....It was bullying.  Since you are trying to be helpful without bullying this time I have decided to remove you from ignore.

But let me give you some advice....I'm sure you probably know way more about reptiles than I do(although that doesn't mean I will always or ever follow what you have to say) but in the future try to have some *TACT* when responding to people. On a forum such as this many people are looking for advice and sometimes you can be quite nasty and confrontational. You also insinuated things about me that are untrue. I have also found other instances where you responded to people in the same way.  If you are going to give advice to people please try to do so in a reasonable manner.

As for the other thread people were giving me advice on things I was not asking for because I didn't want a new enclosure....I wanted a new lid to her enclosure and we ended up finding one that now works. On our own we were able to finally find a "hinged" screen top that fits her tank.  The one piece of advice that worked for us in that thread was the "tin foil treatment" which worked far better then the "wet towels" we were using before"(and I just went back to that thread and thanked dr del for that tin foil advice)

This snake isn't even "mine".  It's my boyfriends because he is the one who wanted one.  While I am an animal lover in general I grew up with "birds" and never have owned a dog or cat(although I want a puggle someday) I am the one doing all this research for our snake so she can hopefully have a good life. He is just the one paying for everything. I did quickly become attached to her though.

Anyway after doing research on here I am confident her vivarium is set up properly.

Moving on....






> Keep doing what your doing (you can do it up to 2 times a day) but more might stress out the guy.
> Steps:
> -Soak like your doing
> -After the soak let the snake do it's thing but try to keep him under somewhat control
> *-Grab a q-tip and start to rub on the snakes face, if he is still head shy then your going to have to "hold him down". One person hold the snakes head (thumb where the neck and head meet on the top and the index finger under the throat. Don't apply to much pressure but just enough to restrain the snake, we don't want an injury to happen)
> -Now the second person needs to just warm water to wet the q-tip and rub the front of the nose where the heat pits are. Keep doing this until you see a separation of the white skin from the real skin. From there just pull back on the skin and just pray the eye caps come with it or your looking at a whole different issue.*
> 
> Hope this helps
> 
> ...


Well we already got her that "shed aid" and used it on her tonight.  I never thought it would be some wonderful solution but we will see if there is any progress tomorrow.(if not....well we are out of 6 bucks. Oh well)

As for being head shy....she is.  she did let my boyfriend wrap a wet wash cloth around his index finger and lightly rub from between her eyes backward but if he tried to start further up near her mouth she got very agitated. 

Not only would we both feel uncomfortable holding her head in place but would both *FEAR* trying to actually grab her skin and try to "pull it off"(everything I have ever read on this forum and everywhere else says thats not good)

Anyway if the spray doesn't work we will continue trying to soak and try wet q-tips but we will never actually try to "peel" her skin off!

I guess If this issue doesn't get resolved soon enough we will have to bring her to the vet and let them get her skin off.

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_shelliebear_ (12-12-2010)

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## Superpop

> Hi,
> 
> *The biggest problem is they really do not like having their head touched. 
> 
> But sometimes we have to just bite the bullet and do it anyway. They will squirm - and on particularly unpleasant occasions crap all over you.* 
> 
> Don't waste money on shed aid - just soak her for half an hour and remove the stuck shed by hand. You can use a spray bottle if it starts drying out and sticking.
> 
> *BUT* you have to be really careful when you are doing it - especially around her eyes when removing the spectacles.
> ...


I read things about stress and I already worry we have stressed her out to much. No mater what the "temp" of the tepid water she hates it being "forced" upon her and always freaks out the first minute or so before calming down and accepting it.(but on her own she glides though her water dish at the same temp...accept for her head which is always lifted)

As for her head....I'm not scared of being "bit" because at this point I would rather suffer a small bite over her shed.   I don't think she would bite anyway...I just don't want to stress her or have her "hate us"...

As for poop...my boyfriend let her crawl off of his hand onto the coffee table a few months ago and as she crawled off she paused and crapped onto the ground between his hand and and the table....oh well!  It was nasty but we cleaned it up.(luckily we have wood floors and not carpet. LOL)

I would gladly have her crap on me and have to take a shower rather than do what we are doing now.....

I am *COMPLETELY* scared of trying to handle her in such a manner though because not only will it create stress for her but won't she kind of "hate" us for doing it to her?


I am a bit terrified of "biting the bullet"

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## MitsuMike

> Well we already got her that "shed aid" and used it on her tonight.  I never thought it would be some wonderful solution but we will see if there is any progress tomorrow.(if not....well we are out of 6 bucks. Oh well)
> 
> As for being head shy....she is.  she did let my boyfriend wrap a wet wash cloth around his index finger and lightly rub from between her eyes backward but if he tried to start further up near her mouth she got very agitated. 
> 
> Not only would we both feel uncomfortable holding her head in place but would both *FEAR* trying to actually grab her skin and try to "pull it off"(everything I have ever read on this forum and everywhere else says thats not good)
> 
> Anyway if the spray doesn't work we will continue trying to soak and try wet q-tips but we will never actually try to "peel" her skin off!
> 
> I guess If this issue doesn't get resolved soon enough we will have to bring her to the vet and let them get her skin off.


I find it funny you ignored me but yet............you still responded.
I'm not even going to get into it with you. I'm not the one with the issue, it seems to be you with the problem. I would go more in depth with other processes ( I named the simplest, b/c I didn't want to hurt your head to much) but hey I'm ignored so no point. 
BTW if you can't even handle a snake and do what is needed to help the animal give it up, you don't deserve it.
And by the way don't you think the snake is stressed WAY to much with eye caps and "dents" in it's eye. Like I said you need to find a new animal.

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## Superpop

> I find it funny you ignored me but yet............you still responded.


I already explained why.  It is because you were acting like an adult for once and trying to be helpful without the childish bullying which you have now regressed back to.  You do it to other people as well.





> I'm not even going to get into it with you. I'm not the one with the issue, it seems to be you with the problem. I would go more in depth with other processes ( I named the simplest, b/c I didn't want to hurt your head to much)


Thanks for pretending I am stupid.

Remember in the other thread when you *hallucinated* that my baby BP was eating full grown rats?(as if a baby BP even "could")  

How did that make you feel?  Stupid?  :Wink: 





> but hey I'm ignored so no point.


I already stated I only saw your post because I wasn't logged onto the site and since you were actually trying to be be helpful without bullying I chose to take you off of ignore which you have now made me quickly regret.




> BTW if you can't even handle a snake and do what is needed to help the animal give it up, you don't deserve it.
> And by the way don't you think the snake is stressed WAY to much with eye caps and "dents" in it's eye. Like I said you need to find a new animal.


I already stated the dents are now gone earlier in this thread. Do you just quickly "skim" over threads without actually reading them well and then respond and say baseless things?(Just like the whole "rat" issue where you were confusing me with someone else in the same thread)

I really take offense to you saying we "don't deserve" a snake.   Sure we are not experts and have run into problems but we are new at this.  It's not like we are just neglecting her!  And I already stated in this thread *if we can't get the shed off of her head that we will bring her to a vet* and have them get it off!(perhaps you missed that as well with your constant "skimming" without really reading what is posted)

*HOW DARE YOU* say we don't deserve her.  We are by no means experts but we are trying very hard and have succeeded at correcting problems and right now we are trying to correct a stuck head shed and if we can't do so on our own we will bring her to the vet and have them do it!

I gave you a second chance to give responses in a reasonable manner but clearly "reasonable" is not your forte. Clearly you just like to fight with people. *You won't be getting a third chance to behave like a decent person because you are now going back on ignore and this time I promise it is for good!* 

I also urge everyone else on here who has ever had to deal with MitsuMike's nasty attitude(and there are others who have) to just put him on ignore.

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## Superpop

> Hi,
> 
> The biggest problem is they really do not like having their head touched. 
> 
> But sometimes we have to just bite the bullet and do it anyway. They will squirm - and on particularly unpleasant occasions crap all over you. 
> 
> Don't waste money on shed aid - just soak her for half an hour and remove the stuck shed by hand. You can use a spray bottle if it starts drying out and sticking.
> 
> *BUT* you have to be really careful when you are doing it - especially around her eyes when removing the spectacles.
> ...



First off I want to thank you for the "tin foil" treatment idea in the other thread...  It helped enormously and we were able to stop using "wet towels" on her screen top which is so awesome!

I had my boyfriend read your post tonight before he went to bed.  He is going to try it tomorrow night.(I guess I was wrong in saying we were to scared...It's me who is scared)

Tonight he sprayed her with the "shed aid" again(last night we used it and it helped "a little" but not much) After he sprayed her tonight we waited 2 hours and then he held her and used a wet wash cloth on his index finger and she even let him rub her head with it lightly for a few minutes before becoming agitated.(it was only between her eyes though...he didn't start at her mouth) 

Tomorrow night we are going to try your method. (we gave the spray a shot but it's not helping "much")    

What do we use when we start around her mouth? Wet wash cloth?  wet Q-tip? wet cotton ball? Bare finger?  Other?   

What should we use?

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## dr del

Hi,

Agentra's post on the tinfoil treatment has helped a lot of people and I'm glad it helped you too.  :Smile: 

I like to use my bare hands when removing shed just so I can judge the pressure and resistance better. Plus I can feel when it has gotten too dry and needs more water.

The reason for starting at the mouth is that you need to start at the edge of the stuck skin and I find it comes off easier in the direction of head to tail ( just because of the shape of the scales I think ).

Keep a sprayer of tepid water handy as you will probably need to moisten things up a few times during the process. She will hate getting sprayed but she isn't going to like any of the process really.  :Cool: 

The shed seperates from just inside her lip so you will need to rub it in such a way that you lift up her lip - pretend you are helping her do the Elvis lip curl if it helps. 

I start in the corner of the mouth and then slowly work round to the nose releasing it at the edge but not trying to take the whole stuck bit off.

Once you get a section started you can pull on it between finger and thumb gently to move round the edge of the mouth rather than having to keep rubbing her lip - it's a little faster and there is less chance of snagging your thumb on her teeth.  :Wink: 

Once you have the front of her nose lifted then you can grasp that and try and remove the stuck shed ( be gentle and slow at the heatpits, nostrils and the eyes ).

If you have it moist enough it should come off pretty easily and in one peice.  :Good Job: 

I normally don't worry too much about stuck shed unless it encircles the snake (especially at the tail tip ) or stops them eating. My normal male was a horrible shedder for years and would never eat with eyecaps stuck so this is why I started doing this.  :Embarassed: 

He's fine most of the time now with maybe one bad shed a year - personally I think he is just plain lazy and preffers to wait and let me do it for him.  :Taz: 

I have got into the habit of checking all snake sheds for the eyecaps now just to make sure everything is ok.


dr del

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Superpop (12-12-2010)

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## darkbloodwyvern

Hey!

It is pretty scary getting used to peeling snakes when they have bad sheds, faces are a little scary too, but  sometimes if a piece won't come off, keep their humidity up where you guys have it and the extra bits will come off.  Spectacle are best to get off as soon as you can, but also very carefully.  Don't force them obviously.  But if there are bits around her mouth or on top of her head, just be sure to get her a good humid hide and all that stuff for her next shed and those things usually come off after a whole good shed!  They hate it, but don't tense up and stress out.  Stay calm, breath normally and give them (and yourself!) a little time to relax and take your time.  You can always try again!  And when it is all over, you can give her a few days of alone time to recover.  Snakes don't usually hold grudges, especially if you give them some mellow, no head touching handling time a day or two later.  My little boy was a total spaz and he has mellowed out well, despite me being a stressball newbie owner when I first got him.  

 I will use damp pillowcases or hand towels to aid sheds.  Wet down the material in warm water and wring it as dry as you can.  It should still be damp, but not dripping!  I  lay it over their fav. hide, especially while they are in it.  Just be sure they aren't trapped and don't leave it in there too long.  I usually leave them overnight, wash them and replace it with a new one if they haven't shed.  My adults usually have an easier time than the babies, so they are usually fine with less than 48 hours of damp towel.

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_shelliebear_ (12-12-2010)

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## Superpop

:Taz:  :Taz:  :Taz: 

My boyfriend was able to get it all off of her just a few minutes ago!(both eye caps came off attached to the rest of the skin thank God!) 

Now onto a new question....

Her enclosure is due for a cleaning.   Should we do it tomorrow night or should we wait until 48 hours from now?  Also how long should we wait before we offer her food?(since she is now overdue for a meal)

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## SlitherinSisters

> My boyfriend was able to get it all off of her just a few minutes ago!(both eye caps came off attached to the rest of the skin thank God!) 
> 
> Now onto a new question....
> 
> Her enclosure is due for a cleaning.   Should we do it tomorrow night or should we wait until 48 hours from now?  Also how long should we wait before we offer her food?(since she is now overdue for a meal)


I don't see why you can't clean it tomorrow night. I'm sure she's stressed after all that, but as long as you don't bother her, I don't see why not. You can offer her food whenever, if she doesn't eat it after all that I wouldn't be terribly surprised. Be sure to give her a week to relax before offering again. It won't hurt her to miss a week or two of eating (given that she's of good weight).

I'm not totally sold on the idea that bad sheds are in imminent need of removal. Every now and again I'll have bad sheds in the winter even with really high humidity. Don't ask me why it happens, but it does. It's a pain, but it will resolve itself with higher humidity or by the next shed as long as the humidity levels are good. Perhaps in your case it was needed, as there were eye issues-I had troubles reading all of your thread-but if it happens after you get your humidity fixed, don't beat yourself up over it.

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## dr del

Hi,

I'd have cleaned it while you had her out for the peelin.  :Razz: 

I would just go ahead and clean it out then let her settle till tomorrow before trying to feed her.  :Smile: 


dr del

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## Superpop

> Hi,
> 
> I'd have cleaned it while you had her out for the peelin.


That might have worked if not for the fact that it only took my boyfriend like 3 minutes to get her stuck head shed off after her soak.  (she only squirmed at first with his finger at her mouth but once he started lightly peeling her shed she was as calm as can be)

I didn't have time to clean her enclosure though with how quickly it happened.

But I am happy to report yesterday we cleaned her enclosure *AND* she ate a hopper. :Smile: 

Thank you again for your help dr del.

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