# Ball Pythons > BP Morphs & Genetics > Is This A Morph? / What Morph Is This? >  Is this a normal Clown or a pastel Clown?

## Lana's_mom

I am posting for a friend of mine. But he is wondering if this is a normal Clown or a Pastel Clown. Thanks :Smile:

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## MorphMaster

The color seems to throw me off, but the head pattern says the pastel gene is on play there

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## TheSnakeGeek

yeah.. it looks like a pastel clown. just a really really browned out one. not a good pastel.

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## Ryan Chin

looks lower quality (browned out) pastel clown to me. Picture is bad quality but you can see on the snake where it is bright and where it used to be brighter maybe a few sheds ago. On the other hand if it is an older snake that is to be somewhat expected. IMO you can tell it is pastel from the pattern on it, very funky and busy for a clown, also look at those keyholes. You can kind of see a good example of clown spotting (some are very busy some are very clean) vs the pastel pattern influence in this snake.

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## BCBallPythons

Im saying reduced pattern Clown


Http://www.BCBallPythons.com
Http://www.facebook.com/bcballpythons

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## TheSnakeGeek

either way, i wouldnt pay pastel clown price for it.

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## Lana's_mom

ok, thanks everyone. Its around 400 grams, from what he said.

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## Pythonfriend

if you take a gene (like pastel) into a recessive project, all line breeding efforts will be 75% annihilated! Thats the trouble with line-bred nice reduced gene XY, if its not genetic taking it into a recessive project will destroy it. 

Nice single-gene pastels do turn ugly if you work with them like you would with any other gene, like, GHI or so. I mean, line-bred genes are nice as long as you line-breed them, but when you buy and breed them and then even combine them with other genes.....    it all goes away, and what stays are the genes. Thats normal, pick the most beautiful pastels, combine them, and what you get is....  pastel, nothing more, because NOTHING that can be gained from line-breeding translates into combos. 

so, you say a nice pastel turned into just pastel just by taking it into a recessive project?  NO S°°°... I MEAN NO SOLITUDE SHERLOCK HOLMES. Its got 75% clown genetics and 25% of the original pastel genetics, at best, all line-breeding is gone, its in the 75% of hets and pastel hets and so on. Just not in this snake. 

Now is it a clown pastel or a clown? Im not sure. But dont be surprised if it is JUST a clown pastel, without any fancyness bred into the pastel beforehand. Pastel turns poopy once you cease line-breeding and work on combos. Why are so many "bad" pastels hidden in combos? Absence of incest and line-breeding, thats all. It is at least a clown, possibly a pastel clown, all i can say is that its definitively a clown.

And ignore all people that compare good pastel to bad pastel. It is pastel, or it is not. It is not possible to take a nice line-bred reduced light bright pastel into any recessive combos, not even if it is a jungle pastel or pastel jungle or lemon pastel. 75% will be gone when moving it into clown, or any other recessive.

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## LadyOhh

Pastel Clown  :Smile:

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## satomi325

Pastel Clown.
You can tell by the head markings.


Kurt, I'm really not sure what you're trying to say.....

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## Coleslaw007

OP: pastel clown, but not very nice at all.




> if you take a gene (like pastel) into a recessive project, all line breeding efforts will be 75% annihilated! Thats the trouble with line-bred nice reduced gene XY, if its not genetic taking it into a recessive project will destroy it. 
> 
> Nice single-gene pastels do turn ugly if you work with them like you would with any other gene, like, GHI or so. I mean, line-bred genes are nice as long as you line-breed them, but when you buy and breed them and then even combine them with other genes.....    it all goes away, and what stays are the genes. Thats normal, pick the most beautiful pastels, combine them, and what you get is....  pastel, nothing more, because NOTHING that can be gained from line-breeding translates into combos. 
> 
> so, you say a nice pastel turned into just pastel just by taking it into a recessive project?  NO S°°°... I MEAN NO SOLITUDE SHERLOCK HOLMES. Its got 75% clown genetics and 25% of the original pastel genetics, at best, all line-breeding is gone, its in the 75% of hets and pastel hets and so on. Just not in this snake. 
> 
> Now is it a clown pastel or a clown? Im not sure. But dont be surprised if it is JUST a clown pastel, without any fancyness bred into the pastel beforehand. Pastel turns poopy once you cease line-breeding and work on combos. Why are so many "bad" pastels hidden in combos? Absence of incest and line-breeding, thats all. It is at least a clown, possibly a pastel clown, all i can say is that its definitively a clown.
> 
> And ignore all people that compare good pastel to bad pastel. It is pastel, or it is not. It is not possible to take a nice line-bred reduced light bright pastel into any recessive combos, not even if it is a jungle pastel or pastel jungle or lemon pastel. 75% will be gone when moving it into clown, or any other recessive.



I'm sorry... but what in the Hell are you ranting about?? You're like one of those people who likes the sound of their own voice so much they just ramble and it sounds smart until you actually listen and realize they just made no damn sense. It was a simple question, bro.

Not deliberately trying to be a jackass, but if someone makes me wanna say something enough times, screw it, I'm saying it.

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## BrandiR

> OP: pastel clown, but not very nice at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry... but what in the Hell are you ranting about?? You're like one of those people who likes the sound of their own voice so much they just ramble and it sounds smart until you actually listen and realize they just made no damn sense. It was a simple question, bro.
> 
> Not deliberately trying to be a jackass, but if someone makes me wanna say something enough times, screw it, I'm saying it.


You've officially made me want to say this enough times that I'm just going to say it!  I love you, Nicole.

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_Coleslaw007_ (04-05-2013)

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## hypnotixdmp

I understood exactly what Kurt is saying....if its true or not, I don't know. He's saying when you mix a non recessive gen with a recessive gene, the recessive gene takes 75% of the animals color/pattern, leaving the remaining 25% to be the Dom/codom gene. In other words, if it is a pastel clown, the recessive gene (clown) is taking most of the animals looks. So in turn, the Dom gene (pastel) will not look as good as if you bred it to another Dom/codom gene animal to get 50/50 on it. So if the recessive gene takes majority control over pattern/color, then of course the pastel in this animal is going to be less vibrant and not stick out AS much. Its really simple if you stop and just think about it lol.

Ball Pythons
0.3 Normals (Coilette, Athena and Mary Jane)
1.0 Spider Morph (Zeus)
1.0 Mojave (Prometheus)
1.0 Pastel (De Sol)

Boas
0.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Stella)
0.1 Hog Island BCI (Kiyoko)
0.1 Dumerils Boa (Gloria)
0.1 Yellow Anaconda (Serenity)

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_meowmeowkazoo_ (04-05-2013)

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## Mike41793

> I understood exactly what Kurt is saying....if its true or not, I don't know. He's saying when you mix a non recessive gen with a recessive gene, the recessive gene takes 75% of the animals color/pattern, leaving the remaining 25% to be the Dom/codom gene. In other words, if it is a pastel clown, the recessive gene (clown) is taking most of the animals looks. So in turn, the Dom gene (pastel) will not look as good as if you bred it to another Dom/codom gene animal to get 50/50 on it. So if the recessive gene takes majority control over pattern/color, then of course the pastel in this animal is going to be less vibrant and not stick out AS much. Its really simple if you stop and just think about it lol.


I can understand what he said too, it just makes NO sense. Can someone kindly show me where he's getting those facts from? Because i think what he's saying is complete BS. If you take a hot clown and you breed it to a hot pastel you'll most likely get hot pastel het clowns. Then when you breed them together you most likely will produce hot pastel clowns and hot killer clowns. Even if the clown takes up 75% of the genes like he's saying (which until someone shows me a source, I'm saying that he totally pulled that out of his ass) the 25% of pastel showing through will be nice because you started off with quality animals. Heres a pastel clown from ozzy boids:


The pastel in that isn't poopy quality at all. It looks nice and yellow so id say the pastel and clown genes are equal in that snake lol.

EDIT: i'd say its a low quality pastel clown bp, OP

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## JLC

I have to agree with Mike on this.  I understand what Kurtilein thought he was trying to say, but what he was saying was so wrong that it makes no sense at all.

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_AGoldReptiles_ (04-06-2013),_Coleslaw007_ (04-05-2013),DooLittle (04-05-2013),_satomi325_ (04-05-2013)

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## snakesRkewl

Breeding recessive into pastel doesn't change the quality of pastel, or any other trait you breed into a recessive trait.
If anything the clown gene enhances the pastel you breed to it.




> i'd say its a low quality pastel clown bp, OP


I agree

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## TJ_Burton

I think the issue is that once you start breeding high quality squirrels to low quality line bred donkeys, you end up with pastel horses that aren't that great. This is because 62.998% of the donkey is not showing because it was previously line bred to a tortoise. The only thing you could possibly end up with from that pairing is an albino gorilla 66% het for herpes.


OP: I'd say pastel clown as well.

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## Kona's Daddy

> I think the issue is that once you start breeding high quality squirrels to low quality line bred donkeys, you end up with pastel horses that aren't that great. This is because 62.998% of the donkey is not showing because it was previously line bred to a tortoise. The only thing you could possibly end up with from that pairing is an albino gorilla 66% het for herpes.
> 
> 
> OP: I'd say pastel clown as well.


Priceless....

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## h00blah

> Not deliberately trying to be a jackass, but if someone makes me wanna say something enough times, screw it, I'm saying it.


Wow this is such a great quote  :Bowdown: 




> I think the issue is that once you start breeding high quality squirrels to low quality line bred donkeys, you end up with pastel horses that aren't that great. This is because 62.998% of the donkey is not showing because it was previously line bred to a tortoise. The only thing you could possibly end up with from that pairing is an albino gorilla 66% het for herpes.
> 
> 
> OP: I'd say pastel clown as well.


Ah, that last part was a nice touch lololol  :ROFL: 


To the OP, it is definitely a pastel clown, no doubt.

To Kurt, I have to disagree with you. Ben Rennick, Royal Constrictor Designs, and Mike Wilbanks are great examples of people who have quality animals (pastels in particular) and just consistently breed quality pastel x recessive combos.. Sow me an example of someone who has a ridiculously hot pastel who bred it into recessive morphs only to produce mediocre quality animals. I understand what led you to your conclusion, but I'm saying it just doesn't add up when you see other people's stuff  :Good Job: . Feel free to PM me if you don't want to hurt any feelings.

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_Coleslaw007_ (04-05-2013),_satomi325_ (04-05-2013)

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## stoaob3

Ahahhhaa ahh yeah Kurt doesn't know what he's talking about. I'm going with pastel clown also

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## TessadasExotics

The problem with what Kurt is trying to say is that the Pastel gene and the clown gene are on two different locus. That and the fact that some morph genes will be better than others. So no matter what as soon as you outcross a gene it would have to be outcrossed to another line bred snake of a desired trait/quality in order to insure the TOP qualities you so desire.

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## MrLang

Kurt-
Look up Casey Lazik's clown combos and tell me if you're still standing behind that statement.

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## TJ_Burton

> The problem with what Kurt is trying to say is that the Pastel gene and the clown gene are on two different locus. That and the fact that some morph genes will be better than others. So no matter what as soon as you outcross a gene it would have to be outcrossed to another line bred snake of a desired trait/quality in order to insure the TOP qualities you so desire.



What I interperated from Kurt's post was that the pastel gene is what it is, and that the only reason some pastels look nicer than others is because of line breeding. He then goes on to say that when you mix a line bred pastel into other morphs it will not translate correctly because line breeding does not effect the pastel mutation directly, but rather the quality of the snake it has been bred into. He believes that when you take a pastel and breed it into another morph like the recessive clown mutation, you pass along the pastel mutation alone without any of the benefits given to it through line breeding it to be brighter/better/faster/stronger and it is then dominated by the clown mutation.

I could be wrong; he may have meant something else, but lets face it, either way it made little sense.

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## RoseyReps

> I think the issue is that once you start breeding high quality squirrels to low quality line bred donkeys, you end up with pastel horses that aren't that great. This is because 62.998% of the donkey is not showing because it was previously line bred to a tortoise. The only thing you could possibly end up with from that pairing is an albino gorilla 66% het for herpes.


This might be...the best post I've ever read... :Bowdown:

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_TJ_Burton_ (04-09-2013)

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## alexr

> I think the issue is that once you start breeding high quality squirrels to low quality line bred donkeys, you end up with pastel horses that aren't that great. This is because 62.998% of the donkey is not showing because it was previously line bred to a tortoise. The only thing you could possibly end up with from that pairing is an albino gorilla 66% het for herpes.
> 
> 
> OP: I'd say pastel clown as well.


hahahhahahaahahahahh  :Bowdown:  :Bowdown:  :Bowdown:

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