# Ball Pythons > BP Morphs & Genetics > Is This A Morph? / What Morph Is This? >  ENCHI OR NORMAL ? /breeders with experience please

## mrobert875

i just hatched out this snake from a normal to enchi breeding. the enchis in the clutch were not the nicest. the enchis did not have great color and have lots of specking on them. just from looking at this snake i thought she was a normal. after looking at the face i noticed that "mustache" patern on her. from my understanding the mustache pattern is what distinguishes enchi from normal. anyway check out the pics and let me know what you guys think.






enchi in question is on the right. on the left are three enchis from the clutch.

----------


## Christopher De Leon

I dont know much about Enchis, so ill leave that to the experts. But that mustache is definately cool. Ive never heard the mustache being a Enchi identifier though..but like i said, i dont know much about Enchis.

----------


## travis11

I would say that is a normal. nothing there tells me it is an Enchi.

----------


## Mike41793

Can you get better pics of them? when theyre all balled up like that none of them really look enchi to me lol

----------


## mrobert875

the three on the left are enchis.

they are all deep in shed. the one with detail pics is the ONLY "snake in question".

i through the "snake in question" in with the enchis for color comparison and thats it. 

like i said in the OG post. most of the enchis that came out of this clutch had a lot of pattern and not the best coloring. 
i am getting ready to wholesale all my normal hatchlings. she looks like a normal to me. the only thing that through me off was the mustache pattern on her face.

----------


## Brian Fobian

They all look normal to me... None of them look like Enchi, sorry. Could you show us a pic of the Enchi parent?!

----------

_Mike41793_ (05-22-2012)

----------


## satomi325

The snake in question looks normal to me.

The confirmed enchis look really busy patterned. If any of them looked enchi to me, it would be the top middle one. I can't really tell w/ the other 2 as the angle on them is pretty bad, but they do look like normals to me. The typical reduced enchi pattern isn't there, but the top middle snake does have the right coloring. I'll be honest, they're not the best examples of the morph.

----------

_Mike41793_ (05-22-2012)

----------


## h00blah

I'm seeing normals across the board  :Confused2:

----------

_Mike41793_ (05-22-2012)

----------


## dr del

Hi,

I think it's a normal but it will be a lot easier to tell once they have had their first shed.  :Smile: 


dr del

----------


## Mike41793

> the three on the left are enchis.
> 
> they are all deep in shed. the one with detail pics is the ONLY "snake in question".
> 
> i through the "snake in question" in with the enchis for color comparison and thats it. 
> 
> like i said in the OG post. most of the enchis that came out of this clutch had a lot of pattern and not the best coloring. 
> i am getting ready to wholesale all my normal hatchlings. she looks like a normal to me. the only thing that through me off was the mustache pattern on her face.


Being in shed wouldnt really matter in helping us determine if theyre enchis or not.  Enchi is predominanatly a pattern trait even though i realized they also have a certain color to them to.  So if you could get some pics of them stretched out where we can see the enchi in them then that would help us to compare it with the snake on the right that is in question. You seem like you got kinda defensive.  I didnt mean to offend you by saying teling you youre wrong, i was just stating my opinion that i wasnt seeing enchi in them.

----------

_Brian Fobian_ (05-22-2012)

----------


## Rat160

Those all look normal to me


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

----------


## Freakie_frog

They don't look like enchi's to me..but a shed or two will tell.

----------


## Rat160

And word of advice. Getting upset and telling people that the one snake is the only snake in question doesn't seem like a good way to get people to reply to your posts. People are trying to help you even of you don't like what they had to say. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

----------


## MrLang

Let's see the enchi parent

----------


## mrobert875

THE THREE ENCHIS ON THE LEFT ARE ENCHIS ! 

thank you to the few that answered the question i asked. 

i will go with by initial thought on the snake in question and say its normal. 

I am still puzzled how so many of you can say they are ALL normals from a over head shot and they are deep in shed ? 

anyway,, all three on the left have been sold to a highly respected breeder that has been in the industry for well over 20 years.

enchis not normals

----------


## Freakie_frog

> I am still puzzled how so many of you can say they are ALL normals from a over head shot and they are deep in shed ?


I said that because those are what I'm use to seeing when my enchi's hatch..


Best of luck with those..

----------

_AK907_ (05-22-2012),_alittleFREE_ (05-22-2012),_Brian Fobian_ (05-22-2012),_C&H Exotic Morphs_ (05-23-2012),h00blah (05-22-2012),_heathers*bps_ (05-22-2012),John1982 (05-23-2012),_Mike41793_ (05-22-2012),_Pinoy Pythons_ (05-22-2012),_Sarin_ (05-23-2012),_satomi325_ (05-22-2012),snakesRkewl (05-22-2012),_Vasiliki_ (05-22-2012)

----------


## Rat160

also used to banded enchis and with those new pictures you posted you can see em, the other pictures didnt look like enchis.

----------


## h00blah

> I said that because those are what I'm use to seeing when my enchi's hatch...


 :ROFL: !!

Freakie, your enchis are top notch! No fair XD!

----------


## Mike41793

> THE THREE ENCHIS ON THE LEFT ARE ENCHIS ! 
> 
> thank you to the few that answered the question i asked. 
> 
> i will go with by initial thought on the snake in question and say its normal. 
> 
> I am still puzzled how so many of you can say they are ALL normals from a over head shot and they are deep in shed ? 
> 
> anyway,, all three on the left have been sold to a highly respected breeder that has been in the industry for well over 20 years.
> ...


OMG CALM YOUR HORMONES!!!
All i said was that from those pics they all looked like normals to me. That is NOT an absolute statement.  If i had said "oh no all you have there is a bunch of normals."  Then you would have reason to be upset.  I was simply  stating my opinion.  So please take a chill pill and relax.
And to share my opinion even more, in the 2nd set of pics you posted i still only see normals... When i think of baby enchis i picture in my head like what Brian posted.  Care to share what highly respected breeder added those "enchis" to his collection?

----------


## JLC

Y'all are going to be stuck with small pictures for now...unless the OP wants to link to bigger images.  But all URL's back to image shack need to be removed.  They've apparently got some nasty bug trying to infect anyone clicking through their images.

----------


## angllady2

Well, with those tiny pictures I have a hard time telling, but I certainly wouldn't buy those as Enchi's.

Color notwithstanding, they have no Enchi patterning at all.  I don't know where you got your Enchi breeder from, but it must be a really poor example of the morph to produce offspring like those. But that is neither here nor there.

I can state conclusively, lots of morphs as well as normals have a mustache.  I have a spider with one, a fire with one, a vanilla with one, and two normals who have them.

Gale

----------


## mrobert875

> Well, with those tiny pictures I have a hard time telling, but I certainly wouldn't buy those as Enchi's.
> 
> Color notwithstanding, they have no Enchi patterning at all.  I don't know where you got your Enchi breeder from, but it must be a really poor example of the morph to produce offspring like those. But that is neither here nor there.
> 
> I can state conclusively, lots of morphs as well as normals have a mustache.  I have a spider with one, a fire with one, a vanilla with one, and two normals who have them.
> 
> Gale


same breeder male,,,,,,different mother,,,ummm must be the male ?

----------


## Mike41793

> same breeder male,,,,,,different mother,,,ummm must be the male ?


Those are all enchis! Very nice looking ones too! 
Idk thats weird if that male did in fact produce both clutches. I think its more likely that you just struck out and got all normals in the other clutch. Because the snakes in these pics are what i picture in my head when i think enchi.

----------


## mrobert875

i think it may have had to do with the mother of the clutch. she was a really dark normal with lots of stuff going on in the patern. she was prob not the best normal to breeder to the enchi. 
 when you compare the 3 enchis to the normals in the clutch you can tell they are enchis. they clearly dont scream enchi. the normals were supper dark with lots of pattern and spotting on them. the normals also had no pink/red on them at all. 

that was the whole point of this thread. the enchis came out not that great. i have one that looked like a normal but kind of had enchi facial pattern. anyway i guess its safe to say the one in question is a normal lol .

----------


## MrLang

> Y'all are going to be stuck with small pictures for now...unless the OP wants to link to bigger images.  But all URL's back to image shack need to be removed.  They've apparently got some nasty bug trying to infect anyone clicking through their images.


Damn, they are by far the fastest and easiest way to upload  :Mad:

----------


## alittleFREE

> Damn, they are by far the fastest and easiest way to upload


Try http://imgur.com. It's the only thing I use now!

----------


## dr del

Or just use the direct link to the picture instead.  :Cool:

----------


## WingedWolfPsion

I usually use photobucket.  I guess I am old-fashioned, lol.

----------


## Mike41793

> I usually use photobucket.  I guess I am old-fashioned, lol.


x2 or tapatalk just does it for me, which also always works  :Smile:

----------

