# Feeders > General Feeders >  rats, hoppers, mice, oh my.

## kontron

i have been feeding my snakes pinky mice from the local petstores, and i want to go over to rats. but now i am reading hoppers, crawlers, pinkies, and other terms.. what is what. i have always fed mice that were as large as the largest section of the snakes body girth. should i bump it up, or leave it alone. can i start feeding rats now? i assume roswell is at least 6 months, and he is about 20" long. i havent attempted the girth measurement yet. any kind of rats would do? i know there are a few kinds of rats they sell. i think they are all just rats to me.

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## Smulkin

Anything ~1.5x the thickest girth will go down fine - if you go to a shop you ought to be able to eyeball one out well enough and certainly rats can get on the menu.

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## Smynx

This might help you understand the terms "pinky," "fuzzy," "hopper," etc. and their sizes: http://www.rodentpro.com/catalog.asp?prod=3

Check out the rats too.

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## Brandon.O

Its pretty easy, pinkies are the ones that are PINK and have no fur, fuzzies are the little ones who have fur but thier eyes arent quite open yet and they arent as big as hoppers, hoppers are like teenage mice they arent as big as the adults but they are close.

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## Anonymous

In my opinion, if you can feed Adult Mice, then you should switch over to Rat Pups.

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## mlededee

i read in the bp care section that "Your ball python should remain on mice only until it reaches 28 inches long. This is when they become a juvenile, and switching to rats is preferred. We recommend that you feed mice from the time of birth until the time it becomes a juvenile. Mice are higher in calcium then rats are, and this is important for them during this time of growth." if roswell is 20" long then he is still a juvenille and according to this idea, not ready for rats. thoughts?

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## Anonymous

> i read in the bp care section that "Your ball python should remain on mice only until it reaches 28 inches long. This is when they become a juvenile, and switching to rats is preferred. We recommend that you feed mice from the time of birth until the time it becomes a juvenile. Mice are higher in calcium then rats are, and this is important for them during this time of growth." if roswell is 20" long then he is still a juvenille and according to this idea, not ready for rats. thoughts?


How could Mice have more calcium if Rats have more bone mass?

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## led4urhead

KLG posted this link a while back: http://www.nal.usda.gov/awic/zoo/Who...nal02May29.pdf

It has some really good information about prey and nutrition.  You'll need to download it and have Adobe Acrobat Reader to view it.

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## SatanicIntention

Anatomy lesson anyone...? 

Adult mice have more calcium in their tiny bones than a unweaned rat. The rats still suckling off their mom are still mostly rubber(cartilage), as are just weaned rats, still some cartilage in the place of bone. It's just based on the age of the rodent as to how much the bone-cartilage ratio varies. We've learned about this in anatomy about puppies and kittens. When they are born, they could probably bounce they are so rubbery. 

So Kontron, if an adult mouse still makes a lump, then I would stay on those until a weaned rat would fit in the snakes tummy. Because IMO, rats that aren't weaned yet just don't provide enough calcium for growing babies and juveniles.

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## kontron

okay i get it now. i always called the fuzzies pinkies. the adult mice are always really small. i wanted to switch to small rats instead of "large" mice.  it seems mice are sold so quikly the stores usualy only have smaller ones. i wanted to start breeding so i can get the perfect sizes for the snakes. as soon as i find a place that has smaller rats i will start feeding those. the mice just dont cut it anymore. 20" is a rough estimate give or take a half inch to 3 inches tops. but mice seem to be too small. what if i fed the mice something calcium rich before death? or what about supliments?

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## SatanicIntention

If they are weaned mice, then no. No supplements are needed anyway. Calcium, being a mineral, cannot be excreted if there's an excess like water-soluble vitamins and whatnot. So the body just has to deal with the excess. Having an excess can be as detrimental as not getting enough.
http://www.meltdown.com/calcium.htm
This pretty much explains what happens when too much calcium gets in the system.
So that's a no-no on the supplements there buddy.  :Smile:

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## led4urhead

Since we are so deep on feeder talk .. moved to the feeder forum  :Smile:

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