# Miscellaneous Herp Interests > Invertebrates >  Trantula Bald spot

## Andrew666

Hello, I purchased a Rose Hair Tarantula from a flea market about 7 months ago. When I bought it, it wasnt very well taken care of. It didnt have water or food. But it ate and drank a lot the first night. Since then it's been doing well. Eats almost every week and drinks a lot. I have it in a 6-gallon critter keeper with a locking screen top. It molted once and looked fine after, but it changed from the light brown to a dark almost black shade. It hasnt molted in about 2 months but it has this weird bald spot now. It seemed to develop over night and got about twice as big as it originally was. I have a picture but it's hard to take so sorry it's hard too see. I've heard they kick off hairs to defend them selves not sure if that's what happened. 

Thanks, Andrew 

http://img313.imageshack.us/img313/6...derbaldkc8.jpg

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## recycling goddess

yup... a bald spot is normal... esp before a moult. 

but there are waaaaaay more intelligent members here who can answer on your specific tarantula.

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## Ballpython2

Also if you ever see  a bald patch with here all around it..this means your tarantula may have been kicking hair off because of  stress or if it felt threatened -sp-

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## Shadowspider

Well, first of all, that is mostl likely not a rose hair.  They are not that dark, even the "muddy" ones.  If you can get a picture of the entire spider, I *might* be able to give you a better idea of what species you have.
As for the bald spot, yes, it has been kicking hair.  You can see by the color of the cuticle (the skin) that it is not anywhere near ready to molt again.  Depending on its size, if it is an adult, it will not molt again for about another year.  Only spiderlings molt every few months and that time frame gets longer as they grow.

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## Schlyne

That looks more like a haplopema species...possibly a cobalt blue.  In that case, it needs much deeper substrate, as the bald spot is a sure sign of being stressed out for that species.  

Can you get a whole body picture?

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## Andrew666

Hey guys, When I bought the spider the man told me it was a rose hair. It was light brown and looked like the other spider's he had for sale. It molted and turned from light brown to that almost black and orangy brown. I have a few pics there not great but best I can do. 

The spider the day of purchasing -- http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/9...idernewpw6.jpg

The spider shortly after it's first and only molt --http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/1...dernew2yi8.jpg

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## dr del

Hi,


I can't venture any alternate species identifictions but can say you have a lil boy there - in case no one has told you they don't live very long after their adult molt . :Sad:  

They tend to be quite active as  he should now be searching for a mature female to mate with - you might be intrested in seeing that whole process and possibly raising your own spiderlings.

Buying a female now will also mean you will have a longer term pet. Sexing is tricky if you don't have access to a shed skin but in the last pic you posted the middle of the collage clearly shows the "hooks" the adult male uses during breeding.

second leg down in middle pic 2 knuckles in 


dr del

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## steveo

I may be wrong on this , but to me it looks like that spider has  purple markings on its* cephalthorax..* could be a type of  Pamphobeteus

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## Schlyne

Actually, I would NOT recommended breeding that T, as you don't know what species it is!  You definately have a mature male though.  

It's not a Pamphobeteus and I really don't think it's a rose hair.

A Pamphobeteus species should have pinkish/purple markings on the carapace kind of like this one.


It's not possible to ID a T based on colors, and it's very hard to determine some T's from a photo.

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## Andrew666

The bald spot could be a sign of stress, so what should I do too change the enclosure? He seem's to eat and drink well so before that bald spot I never knew of any problems.

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## Shadowspider

Well, one thing is for certain, whoever you got it from doesn't know taratntulas very well.  That most certainally is not a G. rosea.  What it is, is anyone's guess.
As far as breeding, uhh, yeah, breeding is not something you want to try and do without knowing what species it is.
Kind of a bummer that it's a male.  Hope you didn't pay a lot for it as it will live for maybe a year....if you're lucky.

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## dr del

O.K.  

Forget I mentioned breeding. :Embarassed:  

The colour change reminded me of something and it's taken me a little while to track it down.

I used to have a white collared tarantula (Eupalaestrus weijenberghi) which I sold way to early becuse I didnt realise the size they could get to ( 4" apparenly in legspan). Sadly I can only find the one shed skin and its got all dark and dirty.

The reason I mention this in this thread is that this species has the same dramatic male colour change at the final molt as the spider owned by the O.P.

Is this a very common thing in tarantulas? I tried to take a pic of the shed skin on the article I found but it didnt come out very well. In real life however she was the same light fawn colour as the O.P.'s too - but the knee stripes weren't as pronounced if memory serves.



As can be seen I am no david bailey - the article does say that to kick hair they raise their bum and back legs so they are in fact kicking forward over their own heads. They are stunningly docile though so I never got to see this.


dr del

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## Shadowspider

Well, the problem with photo IDing is that color and/or markings are misleading.  The post molt color of the spider can not be taken as a true to life color because of photo quality, lighting, the spider's position (angle) etc.
The next problem, with this particular spider is that many tarantula species are quite light in color pre molt and get quite dark post molt or vise versa.  Also, the leg striping is charastic of many tarantula species.  
Further more, MM (mature males) often times look very different than their female counterparts.  Take Psalmopeous sp. for example.  The males look every bit like the females until their maturing molt, then they are much lighter.  P. cambridgei look much like P. irminia until the males mature, then they are lighter.
A. seemani are very light in color when young (or small in size when speaking about males) as are E. murnius, E. camps. and many others.  All of these are light in pre molt and very dark post molt and all have simular leg striping.
The number of tarantula species that exhibit these charastics are many, thus, IDing is next to impossible via a photograph.

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## dr del

Cool, thanks for the info. :Smile:  


Yeah I know the camera I'm using does horrible things to colours. I knew there were variations in colours before and after molt but didn't realise they were this common or extreme.  :Very Happy:  

Did the O.P say if he kept the shed skin? ( I have a box of them sitting around here in various states of disintegration). Would that provide any clues to identification or anything? It seems a pity he bought a new pet and it's now not going to be with him long. :Sad:  

Oh, and does anyone know how to combat smiley addiction?  :Confused:  



dr del

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## Shadowspider

I don't know about the exuvia.  Even so, it would have to be sent off to a toxonimist for ID.

As for the smilie additction....use the quick reply and DON"T memorize the emote codes....that's what I do otherwise I tend to get emote happy.

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## Laooda

K, I owned a Rose Hair girl from MY age of 15 till I was 31....  So, I'm assuming that I took relatively good care of her.... So, here's my Hijack question...

WHAT are those pellet things!?!?!?  :Confused:  :Embarassed:  :Confused:

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## ErikH

> K, I owned a Rose Hair girl from MY age of 15 till I was 31.... So, I'm assuming that I took relatively good care of her.... So, here's my Hijack question...
> 
> WHAT are those pellet things!?!?!?


Hard to say, but my guess is urticating hairs.  They frequently wad up into little puffs like that.

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## JLC

> Hard to say, but my guess is urticating hairs. They frequently wad up into little puffs like that.


I don't think she's asking about hairs....but about the pellets of food(?) in a little food dish.  Why would there be pellet-food in a T's enclosure?  (And if that's not what she's asking about, it's still something that tweaked MY curiosity...  :Wink:  )

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## xdeus

> I don't think she's asking about hairs....but about the pellets of food(?) in a little food dish.  Why would there be pellet-food in a T's enclosure?  (And if that's not what she's asking about, *it's still something that tweaked MY curiosity...*  )


Same with me.  :Smile:   Also...




> As far as breeding, uhh, yeah, breeding is not something you want to try and do without knowing what species it is.


Why not?   :Confused:

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## ErikH

> Same with me.  Also...
> 
> 
> 
> Why not?


My bad, I didn't notice the food dish and pellets.  I thought we were referring to the photos in the original post.


You don't want to breed if you don't know the species because the last thing anyone wants is for the hobby to get flooded with hybrids, especially when you don't even know what species are involved.  If you are buying a b. smithi sling for example, you don't want one that is a cross breed between a b. smithi and a b. vagans (if such a hybrid is even possible).

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## xdeus

> My bad, I didn't notice the food dish and pellets.  I thought we were referring to the photos in the original post.
> 
> You don't want to breed if you don't know the species because the last thing anyone wants is for the hobby to get flooded with hybrids, especially when you don't even know what species are involved.  If you are buying a b. smithi sling for example, you don't want one that is a cross breed between a b. smithi and a b. vagans (if such a hybrid is even possible).


Ahh... okay, so it's a hybrid issue.  I just wanted to make sure it wasn't something else like an arachnophagous response or spontaneous combustion.   :Razz:

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## Shadowspider

> You don't want to breed if you don't know the species because the last thing anyone wants is for the hobby to get flooded with hybrids, especially when you don't even know what species are involved.  If you are buying a b. smithi sling for example, you don't want one that is a cross breed between a b. smithi and a b. vagans (if such a hybrid is even possible).


No, that's not why.  Hybrid breeding tarantulas (inverts in general) is not like breeding dogs or cats.  While you can breed a mastiff with a lab, you can not breed a Brachypelma with a Haplopelma just as an example.

Interbreeding different species doesn't work....they will kill each other.
With some species that are *very* closely related (such as Brachypelma smithi and emilia) it is possible to get them to breed, but unlikely, however, B. smithi and vagans are not close enough in sub species to be able to breed...or even want to mate. Grammostola rosea and G. pulchra can not be successfully bred, even though they are in the same genus.

Hybrids are not the problem, killing each other is.
Every species of tarantula has a particular method, if you will, of courting in addition to the pheromones they give off.  If the pheromones and mating style of the male and female are not correct for the species, one will kill the other because it will be viewed as in intruder rather than a potential mate.
Also, when tarantulas of the same genus family and close in sub species *are* successfully bred, the offspring tend to suffer from one or all of the following things:

Infertility
Deformities
Immature death

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## Laooda

> I don't think she's asking about hairs....but about the pellets of food(?) in a little food dish.  Why would there be pellet-food in a T's enclosure?  (And if that's not what she's asking about, it's still something that tweaked MY curiosity...  )


Yep, that was it!!!    :Razz:    Well???  Did we figure out what they were???? :Confused:

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## Snakeman

idk if anyone answered, but looks like you've got a mature MALE A.seemanni (costa rican zebra). how do i know? i see the orange spinneretts which can easily tell it's a CRZ.my adult female used to be brown,then the next time she shed,she turned black!! and i can see tibial spurs in the 2nd pic under his 1st pair legs.and plus i see a small abdomen along with the spurs so it's definitely a mature male.

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## Shadowspider

The pellets look like cricket food or something.  Not something to have in a tarantula's container.
The spider won't eat it and providing food for crickets inside a spider's container is a bad idea and a mess waiting to happen.

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## Snakeman

i found some links:


adult female A.seemanni(black morph,the one i have): http://giantspiders.com/A_seemanni.html

adult male A.seemanni: http://giantspiders.com/A_seemanni_male.html

IF you're interested, I'm able to breed my female with your male.it'd be my 1st T breeding.

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## Shadowspider

Could be A. seemani if the ventral side and spinnerettes are the right colors.  But even at that, it's still not a 100% acurate ID.

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## Snakeman

maybe so...i'd need to see a pic with the underside...if it's orange then most likely it's an A.seemanni.

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## ErikH

> No, that's not why. Hybrid breeding tarantulas (inverts in general) is not like breeding dogs or cats. While you can breed a mastiff with a lab, you can not breed a Brachypelma with a Haplopelma just as an example.
> 
> Interbreeding different species doesn't work....they will kill each other.
> With some species that are *very* closely related (such as Brachypelma smithi and emilia) it is possible to get them to breed, but unlikely, however, B. smithi and vagans are not close enough in sub species to be able to breed...or even want to mate. Grammostola rosea and G. pulchra can not be successfully bred, even though they are in the same genus.
> 
> Hybrids are not the problem, killing each other is.
> Every species of tarantula has a particular method, if you will, of courting in addition to the pheromones they give off. If the pheromones and mating style of the male and female are not correct for the species, one will kill the other because it will be viewed as in intruder rather than a potential mate.
> Also, when tarantulas of the same genus family and close in sub species *are* successfully bred, the offspring tend to suffer from one or all of the following things:
> 
> ...


While you are correct about many species killing each other, that is not the problem. Let's face it, after a successful breeding (or breedings) you are going to wind up with a dead male anyway.  If the female doesn't get him, he will die anyway.  There have been documented cases of crossbreeding among poecilotheria, although I believe there was a high mortality rate among the spiderlings.  The fact of the matter is, the taxonomy is far enough from complete among theraphosidae, without muddying the waters with potential hybrids.  There are species which were collected and described 90 years ago which are still sitting in jars of alcohol and haven't been examined. For example, I have read speculation that more than 50% of the tarantulas sold as a. clarki are likely a. hentzi.  Can the two be interbred?  I have no idea.  There does seem to be some evidence that some species may crossbreed in the wild as well.

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## Andrew666

Hey, The pellet food everyone is talking about is just like flaked cricket food I put in too see if the spider would eat it. He didnt but the crickets did, but it's gone now anway. I payed $25 Canadian for the spider from a guy at a stall at a market. He told me it was a female rose hair. So obviously didnt know much. And I didnt keep the shedded skin, never thought too sorry.  :Razz:

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## ErikH

Tarantulas won't eat pellet food, although some slings will eat pre-killed crickets or roaches.  If your boy is indeed a mature male, he most likely won't be eating anymore.  Make sure he has water, and if you want to offer a cricket, go ahead, but take it out after 24 hours if he doesn't eat it (he most likely won't).

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## Andrew666

He still eats, Ate today already he seems to like a big cricket once a week.

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## ErikH

Some mature males (if that is what you have, I'll be honest, I don't see hooks or boxing gloves in the photos, but I have a pretty crappy old monitor, too) continue to eat, and I have heard of males having a post-ultimate molt too, so just keep on doing what you are doing.  Does he seem to want to wander around more than usual?

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## Andrew666

He's more active now than ever before I'd say, He used to stay in the hide all the time, now as soon as the lights off he's out and climbing the glass.

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## ErikH

Sounds like he's looking for a girlfriend.  Has he spun a "tent" out of web?

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## Snakeman

> http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/1...dernew2yi8.jpg


i KNOW it's a mature male,im an experienced tarantula keeper(4 years) and if u look under the 1st leg to the right of the 2nd pic going down that i quoted,you'll see a hook or "thumb".i have a mature male Salmon Pink Birdeater(L.parahybana) and he still eats and wanders around like crazy and drinks well.i've seen him make 2 sperm webs already(that i saw as he built).

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## ErikH

Like I said, I have an old monitor, and I can't tell if it is a hook or a shadow.  I'll take your word for it.  I also said that some males continue to eat, and some will even have a post-ultimate molt.  Bottom line is that his days are numbered, although I have heard of mature males lasting well over a year following the ultimate molt.

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## Snakeman

> Like I said, I have an old monitor, and I can't tell if it is a hook or a shadow. I'll take your word for it. I also said that some males continue to eat, and some will even have a post-ultimate molt. Bottom line is that his days are numbered, although I have heard of mature males lasting well over a year following the ultimate molt.


yeah my mature male L.parahybana has been lasting quite long.he matured last summer and still living!!

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## ErikH

That's awesome!  I read on another board about someone who has a g. rosea that just made 5 years past it's ultimate molt.  I have heard of 2 years or more, but 5?  Of course, I used to know a guy that had a rosie that went a year between meals too.  Nothing really surprises me anymore about them.

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## Snakeman

> That's awesome! I read on another board about someone who has a g. rosea that just made 5 years past it's ultimate molt


i dont think mature males can live past 2 years after they mature.it's possible but it's rare for them to even make it past the 1st year.it's possible that it was 5 yrs. old but maybe it wasnt fully mature,but growing instead.

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## ErikH

> i dont think mature males can live past 2 years after they mature.it's possible but it's rare for them to even make it past the 1st year.it's possible that it was 5 yrs. old but maybe it wasnt fully mature,but growing instead.


I would have thought so too, but she had pictures, "boxing gloves" and all.  It looked like it was halfway to a death curl, though.

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## Schlyne

I'd be pretty surprised.  Most of the male T's I've heard of that make past the post ultimate molt end up loosing the pedipalps.  The "boxing gloves" generally get stuck.


And hybridization is a huge No No in the invert world.  There are a few T's, like B. smithi that would not be available in the hobby without captive breeding.  Brachy's cannot be imported.  The infertility of the hybrids could wipe out programs like that.

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## Shadowspider

That's something I'd have to see to believe.  A mature male living that long post ultimate molt would go down in the books as a first for any male tarantula.  I could see 2 years, but 5, I'd want to see the proof for that one; their bodies just don't hold out that long....as least as far as anyone in the scientific/tarantula keeping community has ever been aware of.

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