# Other Pythons > Morelia >  Ugh, I think I have a mouser....help!

## xcjumper

So.....I brought home my JCP Mid-July and was told he was only taking live mice. His first feed with me he took a F/T rat without hesitation and had been eating them without issue until Mid-Oct when he started refusing them. Nothing in the presentation had changed and his husbandry is exactly the same. 

I have another couple of weird-os that refuse for several months every year (a Rosy boa and a Black Rat). I decided to try to give him those rejects and he takes them happily and strikes at them. So now I try a rat every couple of weeks but it's a no-go. 

Do I just keep him on the mice? He's eating two small mice (rejects) at the moment. His weight is fine but he is still growing (he's less than a year old). I don't really want to tough love him yet. Is it realistic to keep a JCP on mice? I know it would be horrible to keep my Coastal on all mice....I'd break the bank!

Any suggestions??

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## Sauzo

My JCP only eats mice too. I've tried rats half heartedly with no success. Not sure how big your JCP is but mines about 3.5' and 2 large mice per week seem to keep her happily full. Far as I know JCP don't get as big as coastals and stuff. I think they top out around 5-6' for females which even if it stayed a mouser, 3 or 4 large mice should be good.

I've tried thawing the mice with the rats, offering a mouse and then rat after and nothing. I've pretty much given up personally lol.

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## John1982

Jungles are pretty gluttonous once they get going. You could try thawing out the rat with the mice. If he doesn't take the rat with a bit of scent, touch it to his body after he coils the mouse. Most of mine will coil multiple prey items when in feed mode. There's a fair chance he'll eat them both after "constriction" is complete.

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## xcjumper

Thanks John and S! I will try that, John. I have tried thawing the rat with the mouse but it was a big fat no! If not, I'm not gonna stress it and just give Mice

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## Sauzo

Haha, yeah my JCP didn't fall for it either. She smelled the mouse and said yum. Then she smelled the rat and was like "hmm this kind of smells like a mouse but...yeah right, you aren't going to trick me, human!!!" and then turned around and wandered off lol. And yeah, I pretty much just said whatever and am feeding her just mice. I might try again later when she is bigger and mice start to be noticeably too small for her. Right now she is about 3.5' like I mentioned so its not a big deal yet.

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## DennisM

I know this is the opposite of the standard advice, but I've had some luck scenting what they will eat (mice) with what they won't eat (rats). After a few successes, switch to the standard advice for a few, then try rats.

I've had only 2 of nearly 20 JCP over the years that never converted.  If the snake never makes the switch, they will take quail, chicken and rabbit.

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## DennisM

> So.....I brought home my JCP Mid-July and was told he was only taking live mice. His first feed with me he took a F/T rat without hesitation and had been eating them without issue until Mid-Oct when he started refusing them.


Once I get any carpet to take rats, they're never again offered a mouse.  They can fast as long as they like, they'll take the rats again someday.

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_Sonny1318_ (12-08-2016)

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## xcjumper

I know, DennisM, my bad. I can give my Coastal anything and she will eat it so I gave him some mice rejects from other snakes thinking the same thing.  :Wag of the finger:

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## Albert Clark

Make a effort to extend the time between scheduled feedings also. This may help.

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## Stewart_Reptiles

Is it doable long term yes, it's just time consuming and more expensive.

When carpets are started on mice it's very hard to switch them it took me 1 and a half year to switch my IJ Jag, I tried scenting offering, smaller meals (one mouse and  one rat behind) nothing work until one day it did, people think BP are hard to switch but Carpet can be as hard if not harder.

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## EL-Ziggy

I'm currently experiencing the same issue with my Bredls python. He had been eating rats, mice and chicks just fine but has refused rats his last 3 meals. He has eaten the last 2 jumbo mice that my kings have rejected on their winter fast. I've decided to try scenting but if that doesn't work it's tough love for me. I refuse to feed an adult carpet 5-6 jumbo mice when 1 large rat will do.

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## DennisM

> .... I might try again later when she is bigger and mice start to be noticeably too small for her. Right now she is about 3.5' like I mentioned so its not a big deal yet.


I think you're making a mistake by waiting if you hope to convert her to rats.  the longer you wait, the less your chances.  in my experience if you don't have them converted young, you've got almost no chance.  Not saying it's not possible, but in my collection which has seen more than 60 carpets at one time or another, none has ever made the conversion to rats after about 18 months of age.

of all those carpets, 7 never made the switch, 2 JCP, 4 IJ and 1 coastal.  a few others stubbornly made the switch.  Most took rats right away.

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## Sauzo

ok, so what are some ideas to get her switched? I tried scenting and it was a fail. I've tried the double up method with feeding her a mouse and then a rat behind it, she wasn't having any of that. I've tried rubbing the rat on her body and all she does is look at it and then crawl off, if I follow her, she just gets mad and crawls off faster or drops down to the lower perch lol. I mean other than just tough love and starving her into submission which might be awhile as she has been eating pretty healthy on her double mice a week lol, is there any other tricks?

She is about 3.5' and was about 2.5' when I got her and was told she was about 1-1.5 years old. I think she was messed with as a baby as she was VERY defensive and bit me every time I even went in the cage. She also would only eat live mice at night for the gal but once I got her, I got her switched to F/T mice during the day in the first feeding. I've had her about 3 months now and she has really mellowed out and isn't nearly as defensive as before and eats her mice like a champ but now you all got me worried about having to feed 5-6 mice a week to her when she gets bigger lol. I already have my retic tugging at the wallet for food 24/7  and my BP is a garbage can now too since I got the retic. I think she is trying to keep up with him on food.....so I've got 2 tugging at my wallet 24/7 lol.

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## Stewart_Reptiles

Try offering a mouse first smaller than the usual size soon as it's down offer a rat equal the size of that first mouse.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

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## DennisM

Try Deborah's advice.  Also try the reverse scenting I mentioned in my previous post.  With JCP it may still come down to tough love.  However, even if she never accepts rats, you won't need to feed multiple mice.  Switch her over to chicken, quail and rabbit.  I had a coastal that never accepted rats all and she fed on these all her life (she lived to 16 yrs) and grew to over  8 ft and 20 lbs.  I have yet to see a carpet that refused any of these delicacies.

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## Sauzo

> Try offering a mouse first smaller than the usual size soon as it's down offer a rat equal the size of that first mouse.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


Alright, i'll see if that works.

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## Sauzo

> Try Deborah's advice.  Also try the reverse scenting I mentioned in my previous post.  With JCP it may still come down to tough love.  However, even if she never accepts rats, you won't need to feed multiple mice.  Switch her over to chicken, quail and rabbit.  I had a coastal that never accepted rats all and she fed on these all her life (she lived to 16 yrs) and grew to over  8 ft and 20 lbs.  I have yet to see a carpet that refused any of these delicacies.


Yeah see I did that more or less. I was thawing her mice in the bag with all the rats I feed my other snakes. But that still didn't work. Then I would try and literally rub the mice and rats together like I was rubbing 2 sticks to start a fire lol and again, nope, the JCP could pick em out. Maybe it was the size difference? Since a weaned rat is a lot bigger than an adult mouse. Maybe try a large fuzzie rat? And then try Deborah's method with that?

As for quail, chicks and rabbits, I got access to all that as that's what I feed my boas and retic but the JCP is way too small for a rabbit and honestly I don't even know about chicks or baby quails. Her thickest part is only about 1". She's about 3' to maybe 3.5'. I was told when I got her about 3 months ago that she was 1-1.5 years old but I'm not sure. She seems so small for that age. Heck even large mice make a noticeable lump in her lol. Heres a picture of her. Not the best but hopefully gives kind of an idea. Her head is only about 1" long and maybe 1" wide at the jaw hinges.

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## DennisM

> Yeah see I did that more or less. I was thawing her mice in the bag with all the rats I feed my other snakes. But that still didn't work. Then I would try and literally rub the mice and rats together like I was rubbing 2 sticks to start a fire lol and again, nope, the JCP could pick em out. Maybe it was the size difference? Since a weaned rat is a lot bigger than an adult mouse. Maybe try a large fuzzie rat? And then try Deborah's method with that?
> 
> As for quail, chicks and rabbits, I got access to all that as that's what I feed my boas and retic but the JCP is way too small for a rabbit and honestly I don't even know about chicks or baby quails. Her thickest part is only about 1". She's about 3' to maybe 3.5'. I was told when I got her about 3 months ago that she was 1-1.5 years old but I'm not sure. She seems so small for that age. Heck even large mice make a noticeable lump in her lol. Heres a picture of her. Not the best but hopefully gives kind of an idea. Her head is only about 1" long and maybe 1" wide at the jaw hinges.


I dont know if the size difference comes in to play or not, but I think it best to stick with one change at a time.

Id say this snake can definitely take day old chicks, but thats not really the issue right now since she is feeding.  Im thinking long term as she gets larger it would be more convenient and economical  to feed her appropriate sized birds as opposed to half a dozen mice per feeding.  Rabbit pinks, which are admittedly hard to come by (at least for me), are about the size of weaned rats and she may not be up to size there. 

At this point I would probably take the tough love approach.  After all, the snake is proven to take rats.

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## Sauzo

Alright. Yeah I cant get rabbit pinks. The smallest my local gal has is small rabbits which is what I feed my 6.5' boa. She does have very young chicks and quails though. I feed those to my retic who is 6 months old but he is actually bigger than the JCP lol.

As for proven to take rats, my JCP hasn't taken rats yet. She was always a mouser. She looks at them but hasn't attacked one yet. Guess i'll give Deborah's idea a shot next week when everyone eats and if that doesn't work, guess i'm stuck with tough love and keep trying the thawing of a mouse with rats as my baby dumerils is still on mice so I can still scent and keep trying. Maybe that combined with just time will get her to grab a rat. Although I pray Deborah's idea works lol.

My BP was easy to switch. She grabbed a F/T rat the first try and never looked back although she doesn't like to eat medium rats. She only likes small rats but eats them like clockwork once a week.

Oh and the reference for the picture is the PVC pipes she is sitting on are 1" wide. Forgot to mention that and it really doesn't convey the size right anyways lol.

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## DennisM

> ...As for proven to take rats, my JCP hasn't taken rats yet. She was always a mouser.


Well, somehow I blended the combined  posts of xcjumper and Sauzo into a single conversation.   Nonetheless, good info on the thread for both of you. 

The subject of how to get the stubborn carpet to take rats has been pretty well covered in this and many other threads., best of luck to both of you.  And remember,  in the carpet world there are no mousers , but non-rat eaters are not uncommon

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## Reinz

For two years two of my Coastals had not nothing but mice.  For one year my JCP had nothing but mice as well. 

Before I even tried any of the tips already listed, I skipped a feeding cycle to it's full extent before offering rats.

It worked for them.  Three out of three Ain't half bad.  :Smile: 



Mack, Coastal Carpet



Esmarelda, Jungle Carpet

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## Sauzo

Lol well that gives me hope still then. I know Allison is hungry and she is searching around the cage and looks at my finger when I put it up to the front of the cage lol. She usually just ignores my finger. I tried a rat 2 days ago and nothing so maybe this next week when Caesar, Luna and Dottie eat, I'll try again. If it fails, I know Caesar will eat anything left over as he has taken over as the garbage can of the collection now haha. I might also try a fuzzy rat as they seem more around the size of a large mouse. I tried a weaned rat and I think it might have just been too big. I know Dottie doesn't like to eat medium rats but goes gung ho for small rats and she is just over 4'.

Oh and for comparison, that rat Mack is eating is comparable to the size a large mouse looks like to Allison when she eats.

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## Reinz

That's a large rat that Mack is on. He's between 6-7 ft and can slam a large very fast unless the front legs fork out, which then takes a while to overcome.

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## DennisM

> For two years two of my Coastals had not nothing but mice. For one year my JCP had nothing but mice as well. 
> 
> 
> Before I even tried any of the tips already listed, I skipped a feeding cycle to it's full extent before offering rats.
> 
> 
> It worked for them. Three out of three Ain't half bad.



Simply offering rats without any trickery will work for 90% of them.  It's the other 10% that will make the carpet keeper crazy.

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## Reinz

> Simply offering rats without any trickery will work for 90% of them.  It's the other 10% that will make the carpet keeper crazy.


Glad that mine may have been in that 90%.  :Smile:

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## GoingPostal

We could start a support group-fussy eaters for life.  I'm still fighting with my borneo boy who wants live mice.  He's getting them this month because he needs food, still offering rats beforehand and during but no go.  Looked back at records and he's taken 4-5 f/t rats this year which is better than nothing but most months I offer every week, get refused and after several weeks I give in.  I've tried a lot of tricks and even other prey items, chicks got his interest but still didn't take it, quail and rabbit barely got a response.

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## DennisM

> We could start a support group-fussy eaters for life.  I'm still fighting with my borneo boy who wants live mice.  He's getting them this month because he needs food, still offering rats beforehand and during but no go.  Looked back at records and he's taken 4-5 f/t rats this year which is better than nothing but most months I offer every week, get refused and after several weeks I give in.  I've tried a lot of tricks and even other prey items, chicks got his interest but still didn't take it, quail and rabbit barely got a response.


Wow! Finicky Borneo! Now that's surprising.

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## GoingPostal

Ugh I know right?  Drives me crazy, especially since everything else in the room eats f/t great at this point.  He's very very jumpy and shy too though.

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## xcjumper

yep I'm the one that messed up! Dang....I'll try some tough love. I just hate wasting the food. But I guess my Coastal is always up for leftovers. LOL

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## Sauzo

Lol get a retic. They will eat their food, their buddies food and your food all in 1 sitting haha.

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_Reinz_ (12-10-2016)

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## Reinz

> Lol get a retic. They will eat their food, their buddies food and your food all in 1 sitting haha.


Now that's funny right there!  :Fishslap:

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_Sauzo_ (12-10-2016)

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## Sauzo

> Now that's funny right there!


Lol its true though. Caesar was eating anything that got close to him for awhile. I think he is finally mellowing out on the food drive but not completely sure yet as he just shed, pooped and pee'd plus I let him crawl all over me while I spot cleaned and then I let him crawl all over the bed so I might have tired him out lol. He is relaxing behind his hide just looking out the front door. He freakin loves quails and chicks and for being a first time eater of them, he was pro at it lol. Poor Rosey took about 30 mins to eat her quail and boy it went down rough. The wings were all hanging out so she had a heck of a time swallowing it. I was actually worried for a minute about it. Allison is way too small for any quail or chick right now. She's kind of angry again I think because of no mice lol. I had her out and around my neck. Then I grabbed a can of pop and took a drink and she tried to strike the can lol. Then she started hissing at it haha. She is almost as weird as Dottie who will do drive by hissings at you sometimes if you touch her while she is on a mission from point A to B haha.

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## Reinz

That's crazy that Allie struck at your can!  :Rolleyes2:

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## xcjumper

Well...my retic, disguised as a Coastal Carpet, tagged me 3 times the other day over her stupid rat!! I can't go near her enclosure without her thinking food is coming. I was bleeding all over the place! Didn't hurt but...DAMN, woman!  :Surprised:

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## Sauzo

> Well...my retic, disguised as a Coastal Carpet, tagged me 3 times the other day over her stupid rat!! I can't go near her enclosure without her thinking food is coming. I was bleeding all over the place! Didn't hurt but...DAMN, woman!


Lol, Allison is the only one who strikes at stuff. Everyone else only gets worked up when they actually smell food except Caesar will come and check out whats going on especially if its something that looks like food like a wadded up white paper towel lol. But he doesn't strike blindly.

Maybe she is going through a growth spurt lol. Caesar was bonkers for food when he was growing like crazy. He actually shed 3 times in just under 2 months and almost doubled his size from about 2' to now probably just over 4'. But he has mellowed out. Give the coastal an extra helping of dinner and see if she mellows out.

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