# Site General > General Herp > Herp Broadcast >  Man tries to feed kitten to boa

## Kuba

This ruined snake keepers reputation. heres the link.
http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news...rge_09_01_2009

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## RichsBallPythons

That is nothing bad against snake keepers. That is the guy being cruel to animals which is why hes in jail. Will not hurt our hobby at all except for that guys rep.

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## nixer

> This ruined snake keepers reputation. heres the link.
> http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news...rge_09_01_2009


perhaps but this might have helped reptiles reputation because obviously the snake didnt eat the kitten. its kinda hard for them to stay the snake is a kitten killer when it didnt and can help to show the opposite fact

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## mooingtricycle

To be honest, while i personally would NEVER feed a cat, or dog to a snake, you have to think of the reality of the situation in general. ( Though the way he went about this was entirely wrong, and disgusting) There are MILLIONS of cats and dogs without homes in this entire country. Hundreds of thousands each year are put to sleep because of no better option. Thousands of those animals are used in science, for classrooms where they get cut up and tossed away so kids and adults can learn about anatomy. ( personally, while it furthers humans knowledge, i find it with todays technology, a waste, in some ways. But i can understand the need for it too) 

While it might seem offensive to many, I see nothing, inherently WRONG with feeding these animals ( which are food for humans in other countries!!!), properly( prekilled, humanely), to snakes, or other predators that can benefit from the feeding of such prey items.

I jsut try to look at this stuff from both sides of the fence. It might bother me... Because i love cats and dogs, but i can truly understand it, so long as its done humanely. It just seems less wasteful to me. 
 Now if people would just go and get their cats and dogs FIXED this would become LESS of a problem if people were more proactive!!! 

The way this jerk treated that live animal though is disgusting, and im glad the jerk is in jail.

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Artistry Exotics (09-08-2009),dkwalton (09-03-2009),Foschi Exotic Serpents (09-02-2009),h00blah (09-03-2009),_mainbutter_ (09-07-2009),_RedDevil_ (09-02-2009),_sg1trogdor_ (09-02-2009),Shawn (09-07-2009),_Snakeman_ (09-03-2009),_the_Ryno_ (09-03-2009)

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## Kuba

I agree with you guys in every way,  in the morning while i was watching the news they clearly said a couple of time that he is a snake keeper and he ussually feeds kittens to his snake.

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## tiexecutioner

my god trying to feed it to a snake is one thing but then DROP KICKING it across his lawn? My god i hope this guy burns in hell, he can only be expressed by words i cannot say on the forums.

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DarkComeSoon (09-02-2009),rthamilton (09-06-2009)

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## nixer

> I agree with you guys in every way,  in the morning while i was watching the news they clearly said a couple of time that he is a snake keeper and he ussually feeds kittens to his snake.


im sure they did and im sure thats wht he does but they didnt see that in the video all they seen was some arse tossing and kicking a kitten.  thank god the snake didnt eat it on video

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## abuja

And to think, that sorry jerk is out on BOND!! I'm both a cat, dog, and snake lover, and that SICKENED me! :Tears:

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## HerpKeeperVA

I have seen ads about this on Craigslist.  People giving away kittens stating that they aren't to be used for snake food so not to contact them if that is your intent.  I've seen this in quite a few cities and emailed a few of them to find out that yes, they were all contacted by people with large snakes wanting free food =/  That makes me sick to my stomach that people would throw living kittens and puppies to their reptiles.  But I guess the rat breeders feel the same about their pets, as the ball python keepers feel saddened that cobra keepers feed BPs to their snakes.  While I don't agree with what these people are doing, I think the act will do more harm to the reptile hobby than it would to the cat population.

As stated in an earlier post, euthanizing these animals first would be key.  Not just for the humane treatment of the animal (plenty of us offer live prey to our snakes) but the fact that a cat bite could do serious harm to your reptile.  Cats harbor tons of bacteria in their saliva, which is why most animals you rescue from Fluffy's clutches wind up dying later anyways from contamination.  Even people can get sick from a bite if not treated properly, so why risk it?

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## mooingtricycle

> I have seen ads about this on Craigslist.  People giving away kittens stating that they aren't to be used for snake food so not to contact them if that is your intent.  I've seen this in quite a few cities and emailed a few of them to find out that yes, they were all contacted by people with large snakes wanting free food =/  That makes me sick to my stomach that people would throw living kittens and puppies to their reptiles.  But I guess the rat breeders feel the same about their pets, as the ball python keepers feel saddened that cobra keepers feed BPs to their snakes.  While I don't agree with what these people are doing, I think the act will do more harm to the reptile hobby than it would to the cat population.
> 
> As stated in an earlier post, euthanizing these animals first would be key.  Not just for the humane treatment of the animal (plenty of us offer live prey to our snakes) but the fact that a cat bite could do serious harm to your reptile.  Cats harbor tons of bacteria in their saliva, which is why most animals you rescue from Fluffy's clutches wind up dying later anyways from contamination.  Even people can get sick from a bite if not treated properly, so why risk it?


Feeding any animal, other animals that have been Euthanized with the "Shot" would be very dangerous for the receiving animal, and should never be fed. Im talking other methods of dispatching a large mammal. just so people are very clear.

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## RedDevil

Food is food. What makes that cat so much more deserving to live than the millions of rodents we as a community feed and cull every week?  I personally wouldn't do it, but it is no more morally wrong than feeding off rodents. 

And please note I am commenting soley on the act of feeding a cat/dog to a snake, _not_ any other actions this individual may have committed.

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## tbowman

That is not a boa, kuba. It's a retic.

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_mooingtricycle_ (09-02-2009)

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## Reptile Man

Looks like a boa to me.

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## HerpKeeperVA

> Feeding any animal, other animals that have been Euthanized with the "Shot" would be very dangerous for the receiving animal, and should never be fed. Im talking other methods of dispatching a large mammal. just so people are very clear.



I assumed you meant something along the lines of asphyxiation  (co2 chamber, etc) or the like, I know I wouldn't want to eat anything that had been chemically euthanized, so I wouldn't want my pets to, either.  :Good Job:

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## Foschi Exotic Serpents

> To be honest, while i personally would NEVER feed a cat, or dog to a snake, you have to think of the reality of the situation in general. ( Though the way he went about this was entirely wrong, and disgusting) There are MILLIONS of cats and dogs without homes in this entire country. Hundreds of thousands each year are put to sleep because of no better option. Thousands of those animals are used in science, for classrooms where they get cut up and tossed away so kids and adults can learn about anatomy. ( personally, while it furthers humans knowledge, i find it with todays technology, a waste, in some ways. But i can understand the need for it too) 
> 
> While it might seem offensive to many, I see nothing, inherently WRONG with feeding these animals ( which are food for humans in other countries!!!), properly( prekilled, humanely), to snakes, or other predators that can benefit from the feeding of such prey items.
> 
> I jsut try to look at this stuff from both sides of the fence. It might bother me... Because i love cats and dogs, but i can truly understand it, so long as its done humanely. It just seems less wasteful to me. 
>  Now if people would just go and get their cats and dogs FIXED this would become LESS of a problem if people were more proactive!!! 
> 
> The way this jerk treated that live animal though is disgusting, and im glad the jerk is in jail.



Which is exactly why both my pure bred Australian Cattle Dogs are from the ACD rescue. My cat was rescued as a fetus when i took his feral mother in and then vetted and found homes for all of them except the one i kept. 3 of my silver bala sharks were a rescue and needed 2 weeks of hospital tank treatment to get them healthy again. 1 of my plecostomus catfish was a rescue after he was turned in to a pet store in horrible condition and also needed extensive treatment... 

Someone trying to feed a kitten to a snake is just sick in the head. I cant save em all and i agree with most of what you say. I wish more people would be more responsible when it comes to breeding, and fixing dogs and cats.

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## mooingtricycle

> That is not a boa, kuba. It's a retic.


Its a retic.

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## mooingtricycle

> Someone trying to feed a kitten to a snake is just sick in the head.


I very strongly disagree with this sentiment. 

Would you appreciate someone saying the same about you, while you feed rats/mice? ( which many people are AGAINST us feeding, go on and read some of the rat breeder forums, maybe post a pic of a snake or two... go see how those people react (Not all) ) How about eating meat. Many many people are against that too... and think its entirely wrong. I know i sure as heck am not sick in the head for feeding live prey, or eating meat. 

I think HOW the animals are treated when they are ALIVE makes all the difference in the world. 

This guy, for treating that cat the way he did, was very wrong in doing so. I hope he's learned his lesson.

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_djansen_ (09-03-2009)

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## N4S

I would beat the living **** out of that guy if I seen him walking on the street.

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_mooingtricycle_ (09-02-2009),_SGExotics_ (09-03-2009)

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## Hulihzack

I heard about this this morning... and heard that he was also in the Valley...  He's just lucky the cops found him before I did.

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## Oroborous

Sick...I really hope that man gets what he deserves, I'd like to crush him into a ball and drop kick him...

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_SGExotics_ (09-03-2009)

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## SilverWolf

The way this kitten was treated was disgusting.  I am glad to hear he went to jail and hopefully will do some time for it. 

As for if it's OK to purposefully feed a cat/dog to a snake, my opinion is that it is wrong. Why? Well correct me if I'm wrong but I don't know of any snakes that feed on domesticated cats/dogs in the wild except for the areas were people and snakes share the same space. Because if it wasn't for humans in those areas keeping domesticated cats/dogs the snakes wouldn't ever cross paths with them. 
Now rats/mice are a known food source for many different snakes in the wild. So I don't see a problem with feeding them to snakes. Just my  :twocents:

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## Soterios

It's a very sick kind of man that can drop kick a kitten.

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## kris62901

bro man thats sick as hell i love to put that guys teeth on the curb and stomp his head in  :Rage:  hope he gets all 7 yrs which is only probably 4yrs but enough time to get stabbed and raped

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_SGExotics_ (09-03-2009)

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## AjBalls

I'm not a cat person, but can't say I would to the same. Stray cat or not.





> my god trying to feed it to a snake is one thing but then DROP KICKING it across his lawn? My god i hope this guy burns in hell, he can only be expressed by words i cannot say on the forums.


And off topic, but do you have Mark Petros' permission to use his picture as an avatar?
http://www.ballpython777.com/lemonblast/lemonblast.html

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_nixer_ (09-03-2009)

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## pavlovk1025

> The way this kitten was treated was disgusting.  I am glad to hear he went to jail and hopefully will do some time for it. 
> 
> As for if it's OK to purposefully feed a cat/dog to a snake, my opinion is that it is wrong. Why? Well correct me if I'm wrong but I don't know of any snakes that feed on domesticated cats/dogs in the wild except for the areas were people and snakes share the same space. Because if it wasn't for humans in those areas keeping domesticated cats/dogs the snakes wouldn't ever cross paths with them. 
> Now rats/mice are a known food source for many different snakes in the wild. So I don't see a problem with feeding them to snakes. Just my


I dont know of any snakes that eat the domesticated rats/mice that we as keepers feed them either. African soft fur rats and striped mice are natural for BPs, and so are some birds. Do you/would you feed your snakes birds then?

Humanely euthanized and fed off I can see it happening. Me personally, I couldnt. Just like I cant feed rabbits to giants. But are people wrong for  it? IMO, no.

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## SilverWolf

> I dont know of any snakes that eat the domesticated rats/mice that we as keepers feed them either. African soft fur rats and striped mice are natural for BPs, and so are some birds. Do you/would you feed your snakes birds then?
> 
> Humanely euthanized and fed off I can see it happening. Me personally, I couldnt. Just like I cant feed rabbits to giants. But are people wrong for  it? IMO, no.


To answer your question I don't feed birds to my snakes but do feed ASF's.  But at least with birds you can find the same bird people keep in a cage at home in the wild. I don't think there are many cats/dogs as we know them in the wild to be a food source to snakes. 

But it's good we both have opinions even if we don't agree.  :Smile:

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## Repsrul

I for one was discussed by the video. I could never feed a cat or dog to a anything. But when he drop kicked that kitten... :Surprised:  Does it put another black cloud over reptile keepers? I think so. Not only do people see snakes as repulsive vial creatures. They see them as killers and what he did in the end of this video puts the same stamp on snake keepers. I have all of my reptiles in my basement of my house and when I have people over some of them will not go down there but they ask about them. The question always comes up what do you feed them POOR RAT and MICE? My answer is yes but they are F/T most of my snakes eat F/T they find that just as repulsing. In some peoples eye we can do nothing right snakes are evil and why would you want them? These are the question I always get and when I tell them I breed them... I am sure a lot of you get the same reaction. The discussion goes on and on.

 Reptile keepers will always have the same type of reputation no matter what we try to do to change it. Just like a bikers. (I could not think of anything else) Usually when some one thinks about or mentions a biker the image in their head is of a big dude with long hair, a big beard, a bottle a Jack Daniels in their hand causing havoc every where they go. Anyway!

 I think this video will have a negative impact towards the reptile community just like all of the other reptile related issues. If it shows a reptile involved that is the main focal point. I am all for stricter rules towards certain species. Many people should not be allowed to own the animals they do. One should have to have a certain IQ to own certain species. Just my opinion!

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## pavlovk1025

> To answer your question I don't feed birds to my snakes but do feed ASF's.  But at least with birds you can find the same bird people keep in a cage at home in the wild. I don't think there are many cats/dogs as we know them in the wild to be a food source to snakes. 
> 
> But it's good we both have opinions even if we don't agree.


I feed ASFs as well. Keep it natural lol. And well said, sometimes it's best to just agree to disagree.

But we CAN agree that that guy needs to be punted just as that kitten was.

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## SGExotics

Thats Disgusting! I would put that piece of :cens0r: in jail for life, in the same cell as a few guys from the Hells Angels.. Or Maybe the AB... Or even a Mafia Hitman... Everyone in the Mafia LOVES animals... They even displayed that in "The Godfather"... The godfather had a kitten... Hmm... I wonder what he would do to that guy....  :Very Happy:

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## wilomn

> bro man thats sick as hell i love to put that guys teeth on the curb and stomp his head in  hope he gets all 7 yrs which is only probably 4yrs but enough time to get stabbed and raped


Yes, that would certainly teach him a lesson.

Of course, you'd spend the rest of your life in jail, or be executed yourself, but hey, the momentary satisfaction of kicking his teeth in would be worth that, wouldn't it?

I understand your feelings, but some thought prior to posting would keep a lot of non-snake keepers from thinking that all of us are crazed killers just waiting for an excuse to explode.

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## wilomn

> This ruined snake keepers reputation. heres the link.
> http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news...rge_09_01_2009


I don't think this has to affect snake keepers in a negative light. 

All we need to do is be loud and reasonable, no calls for death or threats of kicking his teeth in (that DOES make us all look crazy) or anything of that nature.

Simply stating that he's a fool and NOT representative of most of us. There are bad apples in every group. We, as keepers, don't have to let him represent us.

This thread, for the most part, is evidence of that. No one approves of the treatment of that kitten. The guy should be punished. Legally.

If cool heads don't prevail, then we look bad as a whole.

Remember people, once you post it, anyone can find it, save it, and bring it out later to make you look the fool.

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Artistry Exotics (09-08-2009),h00blah (09-07-2009)

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## nixer

> I'm not a cat person, but can't say I would to the same. Stray cat or not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And off topic, but do you have Mark Petros' permission to use his picture as an avatar?
> http://www.ballpython777.com/lemonblast/lemonblast.html


thats a good question

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## Snakeman

i wonder why it took 5 years to turn this video in....

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## elevatethis

Just want to raise a question here - there are philosophical implications aplenty here.

As animal lovers (most of us here are), we attach greater moral treatment to what we consider "sentient beings," or at least most of us do.  We perceive that dogs and cats and other higher order mammals can experience pain, pleasure, fear, and other basic emotion-based sensations.  It seems that moral treatment is applied relative to what degree an animal experiences these cognitive qualities.  An example would be that we see the act of beating a dog or cat as cruel, but don't think twice about smashing a roach the runs across the floor.

What is ironic here is that when you compare the animals being fed (snakes in this case) to the feeder animals (rats, kittens, whatever), the predator (snakes) may actually come in at a  _lower_ ranking as far as to what degree they experience the aforementioned cognitive qualities.

All that being said, I'll accept my own hypocritical stance that I would never feed a kitten to snake, but don't think twice about rodents.  That's my own thing.  People eat cats in Asia, Cows are sacred in India, and I think right or wrong comes down to what each individual culture thinks about certain animals.

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## redpython

"anybody that abuses animals goes directly to jail..."

yeah but not everyone that rapes or molests another human does.

it's a crazy world we live in.

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## snakemansnakes

all I can say is this guy better not ever cross my path.  :Angered:  :Fork:

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## Shawn

personally I myself would not feed cats,kittens,dogs or puppys to my snakes but on another note you need to realize that somewhere in the world others eat cats and dogs. so as the saying goes one mans trash is anothers mans gold, the same couild be said that one mans pet is another mans meal.

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## abuja

> so as the saying goes one mans trash is anothers mans gold, the same couild be said that one mans pet is another mans meal.


Actually made me lol!  :ROFL:

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## mainbutter

> Well correct me if I'm wrong but I don't know of any snakes that feed on domesticated cats/dogs in the wild except for the areas were people and snakes share the same space. Because if it wasn't for humans in those areas keeping domesticated cats/dogs the snakes wouldn't ever cross paths with them. 
> Now rats/mice are a known food source for many different snakes in the wild. So I don't see a problem with feeding them to snakes. Just my


Wild cats and dogs are a known food source for many different snakes in the wild, of course generally these are the largest of the large snakes.

Outside of europe and asia, the two most common species we raise as feeders (mus musculus and rattus norvegicus) are NOT natural prey for snakes.  Other wild rodent species are natural prey, but not the species we raise.

However just because they aren't natural prey for many snake species, many snakes will happily eat rattus norvegicus and mus musculus if given the opportunity, just as many will eat canis lupus familiaris and felis catus if given the opportunity.

If you feed your ball pythons or american colubrids or boas or aussie snakes feeder mice and feeder rats, you are feeding unnatural prey.

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