# Ball Pythons > BP Morphs & Genetics > Is This A Morph? / What Morph Is This? >  Please help ID my new python

## BigJ

Hi guys, 

I am new here, and this is my first post. Let me start by stating how informative this forum has been for me and I appreciate the wealth of knowledge!  :Good Job:  

Now onto the good stuff. This weekend, after researching balls for about a year now, I finally picked up my first ball(s). I ended up with 2...although I originally only planned on one, the more the merrier! One of them is a pastel, of that I am sure, however this second one has me stumped  :Weirdface:  It was sold to me as a female woma, and I am fairly certain it is not a woma. It could be a normal, or an enchi or...well that is why I am asking! Here are some pics!






Any help would be greatly appreciated!  :Very Happy:

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## RichsBallPythons

Just a normal

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## reptile65

Even if it is "just" a normal, it's still a very pretty little snake!  :Wink:

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## Piethon

normal maybe pos.het

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## BigJ

Wow thanks for the quick responses!!!

I only paid $100 for her and the pastel so I can't complain! Thanks again for the quick replys!

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## joepythons

> normal maybe pos.het


Ooops did not see normal before the poss het lol.

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## Skittles1101

> No such creature


I'm sure he meant het for something...

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## dr del

Hi,

Can we see pics of the pastel?


dr del

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## joepythons

> I'm sure he meant het for something...


My bad  :Razz:

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## Misfit

Either way, there's still no visible way of telling if something is het or not. ;]

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## Skittles1101

> Hi guys, 
> 
> I am new here, and this is my first post. Let me start by stating how informative this forum has been for me and I appreciate the wealth of knowledge!  
> 
> Now onto the good stuff. This weekend, after researching balls for about a year now, I finally picked up my first ball(s). I ended up with 2...although I originally only planned on one, the more the merrier! One of them is a pastel, of that I am sure, however this second one has me stumped  It was sold to me as a female woma, and I am fairly certain it is not a woma. It could be a normal, or an enchi or...well that is why I am asking! Here are some pics!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Idk I'm not really seeing normal here...I'd say the best way to know is grow him up and prove him out. I've never really seen a "wild type" pattern like that...it just jumps out and screams something else to me.

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## BigJ

> Idk I'm not really seeing normal here...I'd say the best way to know is grow him up and prove him out. I've never really seen a "wild type" pattern like that...it just jumps out and screams something else to me.


Those were my thoughts exactly! It really doesnt look like a normal to me (although I have a very UN-trained eye). It looks to have more color differences and has that "wild type" pattern that you describe.

EDIT: I will post some pics of the pastel tonight when she wakes up!

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## RichsBallPythons

Normals vary alot to the point of making thoses beginners/unexpierenced think hey have something special when they dont.

its just a normal nothing more nothing less.

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_darkbloodwyvern_ (05-12-2011)

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## OhhWatALoser

> normal maybe pos.het


every single snake could be het something.... why even say that?

dorsal coloring is interesting, pattern is pretty normal while I do think it is cool. See how she develops. I'm going with just a normal for now.

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_darkbloodwyvern_ (05-12-2011)

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## Inknsteel

I think it's a good looking normal with a somewhat unique pattern. There appear to be some normal "alien head" markings along with some interesting looking banding. It's hard to see a lot of the pattern with the positions of the snake. Definitely a nice pickup to get this and a pastel for $100. I'm with dr del though, pics of the pastel please?  :Very Happy:

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## BuckeyeBalls

> I will post some pics of the pastel tonight when she wakes up!


Thats pretty funny


But being serious, Just on a hunch and strictly a hunch I bet your pastel isnt even a pastel. Why? Because you got sold a "woma" that was a normal lol

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_darkbloodwyvern_ (05-12-2011),_Skittles1101_ (05-10-2011)

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## BigJ

> Thats pretty funny
> 
> 
> But being serious, Just on a hunch and strictly a hunch I bet your pastel isnt even a pastel. Why? Because you got sold a "woma" that was a normal lol


I guess I dont get why that is funny??  :Weirdface: 

Lol, I knew when I bought it that it wasnt a woma, but I loved the pattern, reminded me of a tiger ball. Plus I liked the alien head on the back! The pastel may not be a pastel, it doesnt have a ton of blushing, but defiantly has a lot of orange to her, I am fairly confident she is not normal at least!

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## Skittles1101

> I guess I dont get why that is funny?? 
> 
> Lol, I knew when I bought it that it wasnt a woma, but I loved the pattern, reminded me of a tiger ball. Plus I liked the alien head on the back! The pastel may not be a pastel, it doesnt have a ton of blushing, but defiantly has a lot of orange to her, I am fairly confident she is not normal at least!


I hope for your sake she is not a normal since you paid $100 for both. My normal has a lot of blushing too and especially right after he sheds he has an "orange glow" to him....but he's just a normal. As for the other one, if nothing else he has an AWESOME pattern and can probably make some really pretty babies. I'd buy one  :Smile:

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## BuckeyeBalls

> I guess I dont get why that is funny??


How do you know when your snake is awake? When its moving? I hardly EVER see my snakes move... So they sleep for like 2-3 days straight?

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## Inknsteel

Even if you did get two normals for $100, you're still saving money over Petco or PetSmart prices...  :Wink:  But post the pastel pics and you'll get the answers here for sure...  :Good Job:

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_darkbloodwyvern_ (05-12-2011)

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## dr del

Hi,

It might be an idea to put up belly pics of the one already posted.  :Smile: 

It does have some nice blushing in one pic so it can hardly hurt to have another look.  :Wink: 

You never know it might be a yellowbelly or something.


dr del

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## AlextheBallPython

Yup, that's a normal. I have a male normal and a female Pastel.

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## BigJ

Ok guys, I just snapped this pic, idk if it is good enough for you, but its all I have for now! Let me know what you think!

and thanks again for all the replies, this is awesome!

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## Skittles1101

> Ok guys, I just snapped this pic, idk if it is good enough for you, but its all I have for now! Let me know what you think!


Looks like another normal  :Sad: 

Pastels are yellow and have *green* eyes, if the eyes are dark it's definitely not a pastel. Pastels also have clear bellies, try and get belly shots of the both of them.

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## dr del

Hi,

It's doesn't look like a pastel to me but I am really liking the blushing and bright flames a lot.

I think I'd like a belly pic of that one too. 

Either way I think you got some fine looking snakes for $100.

You got dinkers at a very minimum from my point of view.


dr del

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_angllady2_ (05-10-2011),_Skittles1101_ (05-10-2011)

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## BigJ

> Looks like another normal 
> 
> Pastels are yellow and have *green* eyes, if the eyes are dark it's definitely not a pastel. Pastels also have clear bellies, try and get belly shots of the both of them.


well he does have green eyes, but it is a dark green, easily seen in the light though...I just snapped a few belly shots...I think they came out terribly, but we shall see!

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## Skittles1101

My normal has dark eyes, but in the top corners of each there is a dark yellowish-green color where his stripe goes across his face. Pics of the belly and eyes would help more  :Smile:

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## Kymberli

I love the banding, flames, and blushing on the one labeled as a pastel. I'll leave the I.d. up to the experts but they are both gorgeous. I don't think $100 was too high of a price for the pair unless they were both males, which I read at least one was female. (If I read correctly..lol)

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## BigJ

ok here are the new pics:

These are of the "woma" (lol)





These are of the "pastel"




Oh yea, sorry, they are "supposedly" both females as well....lol

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## MissDizzyBee

The first one's pattern is absolutely beautiful, normal or not. I could look at her for hours.  :Very Happy:

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## RichsBallPythons

All Normals and all need to be fattened up as their under weight.

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## joepythons

Sorry they are both normals  :Sad: .So who was the jerk that ripped you off?

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## Stewart_Reptiles

> I've never really seen a "wild type" pattern like that...it just jumps out and screams something else to me.


I have seen many like that even owned and still own a few like this, there is nothing that screams that there is something else here all I see here is a normal  :Wink: 




> 


Sadly both animals are Normal which means your "pastel" was misrepresented intentionally or not hopefully you can get your money back.

I would encourage you to get them sex as well because if the morph was misrepresented chances are they are not what they are suppose to be sex wise either.

Normals go for $20 / $25 each at shows.

In the future I would recommend you to buy from a reputable breeder and you should have no problem getting a male pastel and normal female for $100.

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_darkbloodwyvern_ (05-12-2011)

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## Skittles1101

> I have seen many like that even owned and still own a few like this, there is nothing that screams that there is something else here all I see here is a normal


I was just saying I personally have not. My normal and most of the ones I have come into contact with have a ton of alien heads, so when I see the almost banded pattern it always looks funky to me.

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## RichsBallPythons

> I was just saying I personally have not. My normal and most of the ones I have come into contact with have a ton of alien heads, so when I see the almost banded pattern it always looks funky to me.


thats cause all normals are not made the same. I have normals some would think were a morph but yet are not.

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## BigJ

> All Normals and all need to be fattened up as their under weight.


I was wondering about this...they both seem to be slim...I guess I will try to feed them tonight...we shall see how that goes...

I have the guy's business card who I bought them off of, he lives 15mins away from me, I will probably send him a txt letting him know. He isnt a ball python breeder, he likes the big snakes and bought these guys off of a friend of his to help him out...so I honestly believe that he didn't know the difference...but oh well, you live and learn I guess..  :Sad:

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_darkbloodwyvern_ (05-12-2011)

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## Caleyandanthony

i have lots of normals and i love every single one of them who cares that they arnt a "Special" morph there your snakes and beautiful little guys really inless you are planning on getting into the breeding and having fun making new morphs and suff then stick with normals cause they are just as pretty. your new at this and so am i, but i just got my first morph and i paid some bucks for him but i also intend on breeding him and making new morphs. just next time if you think your getting some morphs for a really cheap price look into it first kk have fun with your little babys :Razz:

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## RichsBallPythons

If you have them setup properly in their own setups, they should eat no hesitations when offered tonight. Be sure to offer live till they eat well for you.

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## DellaF

I like em both. More pictures after they settle in.

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## BuckeyeBalls

And I was right on the "pastel" not being a pastel  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

Id call or text him and ask for some of your money back if i was you.

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## BigJ

Well thanks for all of the help guys and gals! I just fed the light one, it slammed a fuzzie! Next up is the darker one...I have a feeling she will be a tougher sell! I will make sure to have my roommate get some glamor shots (he is a professional photographer) of the two balls when they get a little more settled in! Thanks again!

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_darkbloodwyvern_ (05-12-2011)

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## Kymberli

Man, I love normals.  :Smile:

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lasweetswan (05-14-2011)

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## angllady2

Even if both are normals, and likely they are, I don't think $100 was overpaying by THAT much.  Look at it this way, normals at shows are $25, pet shop normals are $75-100, split the difference and you came out about right.  :Razz: 

The light one with all the blushing is especially lovely.  I sincerely hope that one at least is a female, down the road a few years and she has the possibility of producing you some beautiful babies.  Or, if breeding isn't your thing, she'll still be a stunning snake.

Congratulations.

Gale

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## purplemuffin

I see 'normals' with interesting patterns sold for quite a bit(anyone ever see Ben Siegal's auctions? Crazy colored/patterned babies that are technically normal have gone for a LOT of money 'just in case' it could end up being genetic)

I think they are both normal but both BEAUTIFUL! I love the banded looking normals! Good luck feeding them and getting them on track! Sorry you didn't get what you expected!

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_darkbloodwyvern_ (05-12-2011)

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## Miss Tuniwha

honestly..  I like that first one more then the false pastel..  almost has a funky yb look..  (but we saw the belly shots, so not a yb..

both are nice looking normals..   if you are not too terrible attached though, I would return them..   you can get yourself a nice pastel for that..

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## BigJ

well the dark one refused to eat...I figured as much, she seems really stressed. I will let her be for a few days and then try again!

I cant really take them back, I just hate the fact that I was such a newb that I got taken advantage of. I have done so much research on these guys, and should have looked at the signs, but I really do like them! The problem is that I really wanted to breed them, and now I dont even know if they are females or males, and they are just normals...so not much I can do with them...oh well, like I said, live and learn...hopefully I can get a carmel or better yet, a carmel albino in the future, I LOVE them, definitely my favorite morph!

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## Kymberli

> I see 'normals' with interesting patterns sold for quite a bit(anyone ever see Ben Siegal's auctions? Crazy colored/patterned babies that are technically normal have gone for a LOT of money 'just in case' it could end up being genetic)
> 
> I think they are both normal but both BEAUTIFUL! I love the banded looking normals! Good luck feeding them and getting them on track! Sorry you didn't get what you expected!


I love watching Ben's auctions, but the difference there is that those wild types being auctioned occasionally sell for a couple hundred because they are captive hatched brought in from Ghana. Obviously not all of them are from Ghana though, those tend to auction off very cheap.  :Smile:  




> well the dark one refused to eat...I figured as much, she seems really stressed. I will let her be for a few days and then try again!
> 
> I cant really take them back, I just hate the fact that I was such a newb that I got taken advantage of. I have done so much research on these guys, and should have looked at the signs, but I really do like them! The problem is that I really wanted to breed them, and now I dont even know if they are females or males, and they are just normals...so not much I can do with them...oh well, like I said, live and learn...hopefully I can get a carmel or better yet, a carmel albino in the future, I LOVE them, definitely my favorite morph!


As long as YOU like them, the price was worth it. Good luck with them both. I think they're great looking normals.  :Smile:

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## xFenrir

At the very least, you got some lovely snakes and some great dinkers. I wouldn't give up on breeding these two! They could make some gorgeous babies. And who knows? You could hit on something totally unexpected from them.  :Smile: 

I chose my spider not because she was a spider, but because as soon as I held her there was an instant connection. I walked around the WHOLE reptile show, my boyfriend pointing out "how about this one?" or "this one looks great", but I just couldn't forget about her.  :Very Happy:  There will always be another chance to get a morph. Plus now you can get a male pastel, much cheaper and still able to hit pastels/possible supers.



Just go to a show or a reputable breeder next time.  :Wink:

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_angllady2_ (05-11-2011)

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## angllady2

You know, this kind of reminds me of how I ended up with my pastel male.

Here is a link to that thread:

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...-you-at-a-show

Gale

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## darkbloodwyvern

> well the dark one refused to eat...I figured as much, she seems really stressed. I will let her be for a few days and then try again!


Give her a week of quiet, no touching.  Change her water and that is it!  Then let her eat in peace.  Some snakes need a little time to settle in.  She needs to be secure and calm to eat.  From the sound of it, the guy who sold them to you didn't really know much about Balls, so maybe she needs someone who is more focused on the species.  It sounds like you have done research and that is great!  They are both good looking snakes, if a little skinny and I bet they will grow up to look very nice.  Keep in mind, these guys live a long time.  As tempting as it is to mess with them while they are cute and tiny, it often stresses them out.  Give her some space and time to settle down and I'm sure she'll do fine!

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## Carlene16

> Normals vary alot to the point of making thoses beginners/unexpierenced think hey have something special when they dont.
> 
> its just a normal nothing more nothing less.


Jeez if everyone had that attitude we wouldn't have half the morphs we do today. Just sayin.

I think posting more pictures from the top, not holding the snake, would help! Maybe a belly picture or two as well. Beautiful ball, does have an interesting coloration.

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## BroknBusted

I think they are great looking snakes, and unless you were planing on using them for breeding, does it matter now they are norms or not? I have a beautiful normal who has very few aliens ( only 2) and think she is one of the most beautiful snakes I have seen ( ok so I am a little biased!). 

As for the $100 for the pair, I think if you didn't have access to a show, or the ability to order from a breeder, then you got a fair price for the pair. Sadly, Craigslist is full of scammers. Up here, most of the morphs found on Craigslist run much higher then they would anywhere else. Example, I contacted a guy who listed a male spider. Turns out he wanted $400 for him. Good luck with that!

As long as YOU are happy, then $100 for the pair is worth the years of joy you will get from them! Congrats on 2 beautiful snakes!!

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## BigJ

> I think they are great looking snakes, and unless you were planing on using them for breeding, does it matter now they are norms or not? I have a beautiful normal who has very few aliens ( only 2) and think she is one of the most beautiful snakes I have seen ( ok so I am a little biased!). 
> 
> As for the $100 for the pair, I think if you didn't have access to a show, or the ability to order from a breeder, then you got a fair price for the pair. Sadly, Craigslist is full of scammers. Up here, most of the morphs found on Craigslist run much higher then they would anywhere else. Example, I contacted a guy who listed a male spider. Turns out he wanted $400 for him. Good luck with that!
> 
> As long as YOU are happy, then $100 for the pair is worth the years of joy you will get from them! Congrats on 2 beautiful snakes!!



Thanks! I really do like them, they (in my eyes) are both unique, I was really wanting to get into breeding though...so it kind of puts a damper on that...guess I will just have to save up to get a carmel albino male and a couple of rad females for him...just gonna take longer than I thought...

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## dr del

Hi,

You might want to save a little bit longer than that and get an ultramel female.

No kinking issues and, once she is up to size, you could get visuals in about a year rather than the three years if you started with a male.


dr del

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BigJ (05-13-2011)

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## BigJ

> Hi,
> 
> You might want to save a little bit longer than that and get an ultramel female.
> 
> No kinking issues and, once she is up to size, you could get visuals in about a year rather than the three years if you started with a male.
> 
> 
> dr del


Thanks!

I do have a question regarding the "pastel". When I fed her the other day, she seemed to get a wobble, just like I have seen with spiders. Is it possible for a normal to have a wobble, or am I just crazy??

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## EmberBall

Come on.  I am not saying every Pastel is easy to identify, but your snakes looks like a normal, and about as normal as they come, and a nice reduced patterned animal.  You should NOT be happy with your purchase.  You paid $100 for what were supposed to be two Morphs, and got two Normals.  You taking this lying down is the reason so many scammers stay in business, and live to prey on others.  You paid $100 for probably about $25 worth of Ball Pythons.  Ball breeders sell their normals CHEAP, all you need to do is ask.  A $100 here would get you a nice Pastel male and a normal female or two.

Dave

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## mainbutter

Even though they sure look like normals, not all normals are equal.

You've got some VERY pretty normals there, and if you're happy with them then enjoy them  :Very Happy: 

Spend time with this community and you'll develop an eye for most morphs yourself, and that'll help make sure you don't accidentally mislabel an animal as a morph that it isn't if you end up breeding/selling anything, as well as being able to pick specific morphs that you may be interested in adding to your collection  :Very Happy:

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_angllady2_ (05-16-2011)

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