# Site General > Off-topic Cafe > Introduce Yourself! >  Personal Introduction from Chris at Rare Pythons

## RarePythons

hi everyone!

Judy was kind enough to let me share in some conversation on the forums so I figured I'd start with an intro.  I mainly breed ball pythons, mice, rats, soft furs, and all that jazz. I've never really gotten into other reptiles, and originally got into BP's for the money, but I've really gotten into the hobby and truly enjoy them.

I also have a Fennec Fox named Yoshi and am in the Niagara Falls, NY area.


I've been attacked several times on BOI at Fauna, so since it didn't seem like an open/friendly environment I figured I'd pop in and say Hi here.

Anyways...take care!

Chris

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## mooingtricycle

You were told you were misrepresenting animals and that you should fix the problems that you were being told about. You tried to play ignorant of the fact, and you were called out on it.

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_broadude_ (12-25-2008),_OhBalls_ (12-25-2008),_Shadera_ (12-25-2008),_Wild Bill_ (12-25-2008)

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## wilomn

Ok, I know what a wolf in sheep's clothing looks like but what do you call a jellyfish in a chordate suit?

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_mooingtricycle_ (12-25-2008),_OhBalls_ (12-25-2008),_Shadera_ (12-25-2008)

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## broadude

Here's the thread in question:  http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...d.php?t=123731

While some of us were a bit blunt, you were in no way "attacked."  In fact, I asked for pics.

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_mooingtricycle_ (12-25-2008),_OhBalls_ (12-25-2008),_Shadera_ (12-25-2008)

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## Shadera

People selling off overpriced freshly WC normals as morphs usually do get bitten over there.  Especially when you stick your head in the sand and refuse to answer justified questions.

Lots of the folks over there are here as well.  The internet really isn't such a huge place.

But for what it's worth, welcome.

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## RarePythons

> You were told you were misrepresenting animals and that you should fix the problems that you were being told about. You tried to play ignorant of the fact, and you were called out on it.


I did fix the problem. I removed the animals in question as soon as I posted pics and that what I was told they were not Desert Ghosts.  I bought out Millenium Morphs from Adam/Mike, and they told me the animals were Desert Ghosts worth $5,000 each.  They also told me the Red Paradigm was a special, and a few others.  As soon as it came to my attention that they were just light normals I took them down immediately.

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## RarePythons

> People selling off overpriced freshly WC normals as morphs usually do get bitten over there.  Especially when you stick your head in the sand and refuse to answer justified questions.
> 
> Lots of the folks over there are here as well.  The internet really isn't such a huge place.
> 
> But for what it's worth, welcome.


I didn't stick my head in the sand.  When questioned about the animals I said..ok let me post video/pics and if everyone says they aren't Ghosts I'll remove them...which I did.  I have over 100 posts basically answering all BOI questions and politely refuting outright claims of fraud which were unjustified.

I do also feel I was attacked on the BOI over the 200 pages worth of threads.  I had people even take personal shots at my father's appearance in one of the responses.  I wasn't referring to being attacked b/c of the Ghost not being a Ghost issue...that's fine and a legitimate concern.  I'm referring to the posts saying things like *F this guy and such that I reported for being vulgar and out of place in the classifieds.

thank you for the welcome

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## nixer

pasted from your site:




> This juvenile is a possible het pied female. She has the 'possible' het pied markers. As a matter of practice we will NOT EVER sell animals listed as 'TRUE' hets, as we never want to have our reputation questioned over such an issue. As such all of our hets are ONLY listed as possible. She is eating well on small mice and should gain weight quickly.


seems kind of fishy to me


oh yea werent you a member here before claiming to be doing some genetics work

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## rabernet

> I did fix the problem. I removed the animals in question as soon as I posted pics and that what I was told they were not Desert Ghosts.  I bought out Millenium Morphs from Adam/Mike, and they told me the animals were Desert Ghosts worth $5,000 each.  They also told me the Red Paradigm was a special, and a few others.  As soon as it came to my attention that they were just light normals I took them down immediately.



Hope you didn't pay that for them, since they look like light normals to me. For your own reference, compare the animals you were calling Desert Ghosts to this animal  that IS a Desert Ghost: 



You should be able to clearly see the difference.  :Smile:

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_Beardedragon_ (12-26-2008),_broadude_ (12-25-2008)

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## broadude

Lovely animal!

now back on topic...

How old are you, to buy out a business..yet do no research on the morphs?

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## wolfy-hound

Even if you took down the disputed animals, everywhere on the net, you've just put up more.
Slapping "Poss" in front of anything you want to label doens't make it right in the least, it just makes it harder to legally get you when you scam folks.
You were also seen at a reptile show selling normals as morphs, so just getting tagged on the net doing wrong hasn't stopped you, obviously.
IF you were going to fly right from now on, and not try any more fishy things, you're not showing it.  You're just trying to figure out more legit ways to get extra funds out of nomal WC snakes.

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_broadude_ (12-25-2008),_OhBalls_ (12-25-2008),_Shadera_ (12-25-2008)

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## mooingtricycle

Again with the playing ignorance/innocence 

If you cant research the species you are selling, and sell them AS WHAT THEY ARE, you do not belong in the ball python business. You wont pull the wool over anyones eyes on any forum, This community, while, large enough, is very small. in the end. Everyone ends up knowing, almost, everyone.

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_broadude_ (12-25-2008),hobbyist (12-26-2008),_OhBalls_ (12-25-2008),_Shadera_ (12-25-2008)

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## Wild Bill

Chris you're pulling the typical scammer business agenda. Try going to your BOI thread and answer them and they won't have to post in your classifieds to get your attention. Quit importing gravid animals and quit trying to sell wc "morphs". You obviously don't know enough about ball pythons to classify any of them. If you're in this for a "fast buck" like you stated before, you came into the wrong business.

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_broadude_ (12-25-2008),Muze (12-26-2008),_OhBalls_ (12-25-2008),_Shadera_ (12-25-2008)

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## wilomn

I can't play with you on the BOI anymore but if you're not careful they might let me loose over here.

You remember how that went before, don't you?

It's not going to work, you're known as a scammer all over the world. An ignorant scammer at that.

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## rabernet

> Lovely animal!
> 
> now back on topic...
> 
> How old are you, to buy out a business..yet do no research on the morphs?


She is beautiful, isn't she? She belongs to NERD and I love seeing her! Took that photo my first time visiting there.

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## RarePythons

> Even if you took down the disputed animals, everywhere on the net, you've just put up more.
> Slapping "Poss" in front of anything you want to label doens't make it right in the least, it just makes it harder to legally get you when you scam folks.
> You were also seen at a reptile show selling normals as morphs, so just getting tagged on the net doing wrong hasn't stopped you, obviously.
> IF you were going to fly right from now on, and not try any more fishy things, you're not showing it.  You're just trying to figure out more legit ways to get extra funds out of nomal WC snakes.


Ok, well what would you do then?  I have hets I bought last year I cannot resell b/c people complained I was going to sell CH babies as hets.  So I said OK in the in future I will not sell true hets only possibles.  People said, ok that's fine.  I have morphs like pieds and other co-doms like bumblebees.  The bumbles are clear cut with offspring, but I can't sell normal pied babies as hets or people will complain I'm a fraud.  

I imported WC gravids, which several BP people do every year.  I am selling them all as normals except for a few that I paid extra for as YB's and an oddball male morph.  I want to sell them, which once again several importers do and sell as YB's for around $900-$1200 every year.  I know people are going to give me a hard time if I sell them as YB's and since they are WC some are saying...well the genetics are unknown.  OK FINE ,then I list them as possible YB's or as Odd Ball Male Morph Import.  I clearly state they are WC imports and that the genetics are unknown.  How am I scamming anyone?  What would you list them as?  

I feel like no matter how I list the animals I'm getting heat.  If I list them as YB's people will complain, if I list as possible YB's, when it's clear that they are I get some people complaining. 

The animals are what they are...and that's how I listed them, while still trying to be as clear about them being imports as possible.  How is my description of them scamming?  How would YOU list them?

I'm all ears

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## Wh00h0069

Personally, I will not buy from anyone that deals with wild caught or even captive hatched. I also detest when people try to sell a $20 captive hatched normal for $400 or whatever outrageous price. Sorry Rare Pythons, but you will never get my business!

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## Wild Bill

> Ok, well what would you do then?  I have hets I bought last year I cannot resell b/c people complained I was going to sell CH babies as hets.  So I said OK in the in future I will not sell true hets only possibles.  People said, ok that's fine.  I have morphs like pieds and other co-doms like bumblebees.  The bumbles are clear cut with offspring, but I can't sell normal pied babies as hets or people will complain I'm a fraud.  
> 
> I imported WC gravids, which several BP people do every year.  I am selling them all as normals except for a few that I paid extra for as YB's and an oddball male morph.  I want to sell them, which once again several importers do and sell as YB's for around $900-$1200 every year.  I know people are going to give me a hard time if I sell them as YB's and since they are WC some are saying...well the genetics are unknown.  OK FINE ,then I list them as possible YB's or as Odd Ball Male Morph Import.  I clearly state they are WC imports and that the genetics are unknown.  How am I scamming anyone?  What would you list them as?  
> 
> I feel like no matter how I list the animals I'm getting heat.  If I list them as YB's people will complain, if I list as possible YB's, when it's clear that they are I get some people complaining. 
> 
> The animals are what they are...and that's how I listed them, while still trying to be as clear about them being imports as possible.  How is my description of them scamming?  How would YOU list them?
> 
> I'm all ears


If I was you, I would get rid of all my crappy wild caught animals. If you like being in ball pythons keep the morphs you bought and just be a hobbyist for a couple years and take the time to learn more about them and actually breed some first. If you are just in it for the "fast buck", sell the morphs and go back to selling your "secret pot growing closets" that look like speakers etc.

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## janeothejungle

Alright, I've kept out of it thus far but here is why I would never do business with you. You are ignorant. You are, by virtue of buying the business and trying to run it, setting yourself up as an 'authority' when the reality is that you have no clue about what you are selling. You got into it for the money and when it became clear that you were not going to rake in the dough, you seem to have switched to a 'get what I can' mentality. You're not in it for the love because, even now, you have no clear idea of what this hobby is about. 

You have repeatedly 'played dumb' when people call you out, yet you continue to represent yourself as a 'player'. Yet your position now is a result of your own poor decision making. YOU chose. 




> I imported WC gravids, which several BP people do every year. I am selling them all as normals except for a few that I paid extra for as YB's and an oddball male morph. I want to sell them, which once again several importers do and sell as YB's for around $900-$1200 every year. I know people are going to give me a hard time if I sell them as YB's and since they are WC some are saying...well the genetics are unknown. OK FINE ,then I list them as possible YB's or as Odd Ball Male Morph Import. I clearly state they are WC imports and that the genetics are unknown. How am I scamming anyone? What would you list them as?


How are you scamming anyone? Seriously? You can't even ID a YB, yet you are willing to sell it to someone with less experience than you because 'someone told you it was a YB'. Real Classy. Do other people sell WC gravid imports? Yes. And they are mostly loathed for it. Ultimately, that is your choice. If you want to be a bottomfeeder in this business, be prepared to be treated like one. If you want to earn some respect, shelve the BS, be prepared to operate in the red for the next year or two and throw your time and effort into taking care of the stock you have and educating yourself.

~Kat

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ballpythonluvr (05-27-2009),_blackcrystal22_ (12-31-2008),_broadude_ (12-26-2008),_littleindiangirl_ (12-26-2008),Muze (12-26-2008),_OhBalls_ (12-26-2008),_oliverstwist_ (05-27-2009),OneWithNature (12-27-2008),rabernet (12-26-2008),_Royal Morphz_ (12-27-2008),_Shadera_ (12-26-2008),Stewart_Reptiles (12-26-2008),_West Coast Jungle_ (12-27-2008),_Wh00h0069_ (12-26-2008)

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## RarePythons

> I can't play with you on the BOI anymore but if you're not careful they might let me loose over here.
> 
> You remember how that went before, don't you?
> 
> It's not going to work, you're known as a scammer all over the world. An ignorant scammer at that.


First off I haven't scammed anybody.  Can you name one person that claims that I've scammed them?

Regardless of your treatment of me on the BOI it doesn't make it justified, nor does threats of continued attacks.

What civil problem do you have with me?

Is it b/c I am importing WC's, thus I'm a 'bottomfeeder'?  Fine, your entitled to your opinion of me and how you feel, but that has nothing to do with scamming anyone.

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## RarePythons

> If I was you, I would get rid of all my crappy wild caught animals. If you like being in ball pythons keep the morphs you bought and just be a hobbyist for a couple years and take the time to learn more about them and actually breed some first. If you are just in it for the "fast buck", sell the morphs and go back to selling your "secret pot growing closets" that look like speakers etc.


They are not crappy and for someone knocking my 'love' for the animals that's quite a statement.  Where do you think ball pythons originally came from?  Where do you think new bloodlines originate from?  And the last knock is unrelated and totally out of line.  Just personal bashing...which is why it is tough to have a civil question/answer conversation with such commentary.

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## Wild Bill

> They are not crappy and for someone knocking my 'love' for the animals that's quite a statement.  Where do you think ball pythons originally came from?  Where do you think new bloodlines originate from?  And the last knock is unrelated and totally out of line.  Just personal bashing...which is why it is tough to have a civil question/answer conversation with such commentary.


Tell me then, what are grow cabinets made to look like speakers and not give off any heat signature made for? Growing tomatoes? Get real.

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## nixer

> They are not crappy and for someone knocking my 'love' for the animals that's quite a statement.  Where do you think ball pythons originally came from?  Where do you think new bloodlines originate from?  And the last knock is unrelated and totally out of line.  Just personal bashing...which is why it is tough to have a civil question/answer conversation with such commentary.


i do believe i asked you if you were a member here before!

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## PythonWallace

With all the scummy moves and admissions dealing with ball pythons, there's no reason to rip the guy for a legitimate business, no matter what people think about it morally. There are plenty of things to rip on that are on topic. 

Chris, I think we get it. It's that time of year and you have a bunch of wc gravid femailes, wih no place to advertise them without getting exposed so you thought you'd give this site a try. I don't think you will fool anyonw here either, so maybe stick to myspace advertisements. Or better yet, stick to your grow boxes. Those might make you more money that what you are doing with reptiles. Best of luck.

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## hobbyist

If you don't see any problems with wild-caught snakes, just ask any member of bp.net who is in the business. The treatment, the diseases etc. that they have before they come in the country threaten the snake population where they are transported. Just ask and your sure to hear some horror stories. Even  if you label them as WC, most of the people who buy WC are first time snake owners- when they re-sell them (and they will, because they didn't do enough research to understand risks of WC, hence they probably didn't do enough research to understand what they are getting into, and will bugger off and surrender their snake) they will not list them as "WC"- they won't care. If your not taking the time to care for the imported snakes, breed them, and make sure they are clean- and selling their first generation hatchlings, then all you are is a middle-man, not a breeder- and surely not an expert. 
I suggest not selling WC, as will many on this forum- even many breeders who do this for a living.
But dont give up on this forum- if you're genuine in your pursuits, you may not sell many snakes here, but you will gain a lot of advice and contacts.

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## rabernet

> Personally, I will not buy from anyone that deals with wild caught or even captive hatched. I also detest when people try to sell a $20 captive hatched normal for $400 or whatever outrageous price. Sorry Rare Pythons, but you will never get my business!


Most of my founding females are CH females, represented as such when I purchased them, and not "specials" other than being reduced patterns, which I love. I'd say that most of the "big guys" all have CH animals in their collections, and I know several others who do add unique females from the yearly CH's. 

My personal line is not to deal with anyone who deals in WC's. However, if Neil Golli, for example, had a nice CH import that would fit into my collection, I wouldn't hesitate to add them to my collection. I even got a nice CH from EbN two years ago. She's now in Frankykeno's collection, as I gifted her to her after she lost an animal that died in her hands. 

If a CH is acurately represented, fairly priced, well started and the seller is in good standing, I have no problem with CH babies.

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_broadude_ (12-26-2008),_catawhat75_ (12-26-2008),_neilgolli_ (12-31-2008)

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## dsirkle

> Ok, well what would you do then?  I have hets I bought last year I cannot resell b/c people complained I was going to sell CH babies as hets.  So I said OK in the in future I will not sell true hets only possibles.  People said, ok that's fine.  I have morphs like pieds and other co-doms like bumblebees.  The bumbles are clear cut with offspring, but I can't sell normal pied babies as hets or people will complain I'm a fraud.  
> 
> I imported WC gravids, which several BP people do every year.  I am selling them all as normals except for a few that I paid extra for as YB's and an oddball male morph.  I want to sell them, which once again several importers do and sell as YB's for around $900-$1200 every year.  I know people are going to give me a hard time if I sell them as YB's and since they are WC some are saying...well the genetics are unknown.  OK FINE ,then I list them as possible YB's or as Odd Ball Male Morph Import.  I clearly state they are WC imports and that the genetics are unknown.  How am I scamming anyone?  What would you list them as?  
> 
> I feel like no matter how I list the animals I'm getting heat.  If I list them as YB's people will complain, if I list as possible YB's, when it's clear that they are I get some people complaining. 
> 
> The animals are what they are...and that's how I listed them, while still trying to be as clear about them being imports as possible.  How is my description of them scamming?  How would YOU list them?
> 
> I'm all ears


If you made a purchase of several snakes with the intent to resell them for a profit and discovered that you invested your money unwisely because you failed to research what you were getting into, the honorable thing would be to eat your loss and sell them as wild caught normals or whatever they really are, not to use different advertising descriptions to avoid getting into legal trouble. If you bought unproven hets or morphs, there is no requirement for you to flip them right away. If you have developed a love for the hobby, just keep the hets (or imported morphs) long enough to prove them out by breeding. Rather than thinking of your self as just a middle man, in order to be successful you will need to educate yourself about this hobby and invest a few years of time. You have not only attracted political troubles from breeders that are in financial competition with you, which is a situation that can be overcome, but you have demonstrated to the hobbyists (potential customers) that you are not even interested enough in Ball Pythons to even have a rudimentary knowledge of them, a situation which will be much harder for you to turn around.

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_broadude_ (12-26-2008)

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## mainbutter

edited

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_nixer_ (12-26-2008)

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## ReptileJay

You can't just go on a different site and expect it to be all better Chris.  Reputable breeders and hobbyists do not appreciate misrepresentation.  Having a table at a show selling normals as "Fires" or "Sables" or "Desert Ghosts" for THOUSANDS of dollars is wrong no matter how you look at it, or what excuses you make for yourself.  

Your ignorance is NOT an excuse for misrepresentation of animals.  The best thing you could do for your reputation is to learn about the snakes, buy a book and read it, or do some research online.  Instead of Importing hundreds of gravid females to resell for profit, actually get a few CB snakes, and BREED THEM YOURSELF!!!

Your website says that "if you can imagine it, we can breed it"... If THAT isn't misrepresentation, I'm not sure what is... considering that you specialize in imports... (Misrepresented imports at that)...

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## nixer

> You can't just go on a different site and expect it to be all better Chris.  Reputable breeders and hobbyists do not appreciate misrepresentation.  Having a table at a show selling normals as "Fires" or "Sables" or "Desert Ghosts" for THOUSANDS of dollars is wrong no matter how you look at it, or what excuses you make for yourself.  
> 
> Your ignorance is NOT an excuse for misrepresentation of animals.  The best thing you could do for your reputation is to learn about the snakes, buy a book and read it, or do some research online.  Instead of Importing hundreds of gravid females to resell for profit, actually get a few CB snakes, and BREED THEM YOURSELF!!!
> 
> Your website says that "if you can imagine it, we can breed it"... If THAT isn't misrepresentation, I'm not sure what is... considering that you specialize in imports... (Misrepresented imports at that)...



are those sables the same that is on your site?

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gant77 (12-26-2008)

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## Stewart_Reptiles

> Is it b/c I am importing WC's, thus I'm a 'bottomfeeder'?  Fine, your entitled to your opinion of me and how you feel, but *that has nothing to do with scamming anyone*.


How do you call the misrepresentation of animals than?  :Confused2:

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## janeothejungle

You know, I honestly can't tell if this is irony or you really are this big of a idiot. What do I find in my email box not long after I posted to you earlier today??? Why look at that!! 

----------------

WC Gravid Ball Python Imports Just In, Any Interest?‏
From: 	PT..................
	Medium riskYou may not know this sender.Mark as safe|Mark as unsafe
Sent: 	Fri 12/26/08 11:27 AM
To: 	info@centralvalleypythons.com

I ran across your site on the web and figured I would drop a line.  We just got some large gravid WC females in for the start of the season, and if you have interest in wholesale pricing feel free to let me know.  All of our girls are treated for ticks and we have a 30 day unconditional money back guarantee on all imports.

Thanks for your time, and if I don't hear back from you I won't send any further e-mails.

Take Care,

Chris

---------------------------------

Now, one has to wonder, why would you be sending emails from another site of yours when you have a site for snakes already up??  Especially since you are sending it to me, just after I made it clear I would never do business with you. Good One.

~Kat

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## gant77

I am surprised that they would mislead you with the "morphs" you say they told you were morphs. They have a good rep, and seem to be a trustable business. Did they tell you specifically that the Desert Ghost was in fact a DG and not a possible? At the same time though they are good at identifying morphs and such.

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## RarePythons

> I am surprised that they would mislead you with the "morphs" you say they told you were morphs. They have a good rep, and seem to be a trustable business. Did they tell you specifically that the Desert Ghost was in fact a DG and not a possible? At the same time though they are good at identifying morphs and such.


Yes they did, along with the sable, 'red paradigm', and a few others.

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## scarface2jz

sadly in these specialty hobbies peoples opinions stick around... if you do right by your business, your animals, and your customers, than im sure your business and knowledge for these animals will thrive, i wish you the best of luck and i hope you use this forum as a resource, because just being here a few weeks ive picked up on ALOT... remember you cant do anything about the past... only change your future  :Good Job:

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## RarePythons

> sadly in these specialty hobbies peoples opinions stick around... if you do right by your business, your animals, and your customers, than im sure your business and knowledge for these animals will thrive, i wish you the best of luck and i hope you use this forum as a resource, because just being here a few weeks ive picked up on ALOT... remember you cant do anything about the past... only change your future


Thanks for the advise..I joined this forum knowing full well I can't advertise on it, but rather just partake in some learning, sharing, and I was hoping friendly discussion as the header implies "friendliest online herp community".

I didn't come on here acting like someone else or trying to be deceitful.  I came on and said ..hey this is me..the guy from Fauna that is much hated and such...and I'm hoping if I interact in threads they won't constantly be flamed by harassment, but rather maybe civil conversation

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## catawhat75

I'm sorry, but that is just funny!




> You know, I honestly can't tell if this is irony or you really are this big of a idiot. What do I find in my email box not long after I posted to you earlier today??? Why look at that!! 
> 
> ----------------
> 
> WC Gravid Ball Python Imports Just In, Any Interest?‏
> From: 	PT .............
> 	Medium riskYou may not know this sender.Mark as safe|Mark as unsafe
> Sent: 	Fri 12/26/08 11:27 AM
> To: 	info@centralvalleypythons.com
> ...

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## wilomn

> Thanks for the advise..I joined this forum knowing full well I can't advertise on it, but rather just partake in some learning, sharing, and I was hoping friendly discussion as the header implies "friendliest online herp community".
> 
> I didn't come on here acting like someone else or trying to be deceitful.  I came on and said ..hey this is me..the guy from Fauna that is much hated and such...and I'm hoping if I interact in threads they won't constantly be flamed by harassment, but rather maybe civil conversation


You're like a broken record. 

Why don't you stop talking and prove what you say?

It will take a couple of years but the more your trap flaps the less like a good guy wrongly accused you look.

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## broadude

> Thanks for the advise..I joined this forum knowing full well I can't advertise on it, but rather just partake in some learning, sharing, and I was hoping friendly discussion as the header implies "friendliest online herp community".
> 
> I didn't come on here acting like someone else or trying to be deceitful.  I came on and said ..hey this is me..the guy from Fauna that is much hated and such...and I'm hoping if I interact in threads they won't constantly be flamed by harassment, but rather maybe civil conversation


Annnnnd...you don't consider that "deceitful?"  You came here saying you were "hated" on Fauna.  

This is a LIE.  Lying is DECEITFUL.  You are not "hated" on Fauna, you are being WARNED about your advertising methods.  I do not agree that name-calling is necessary..but that still does not imply "hate."

Therefore, IMO, your introduction was intended (I could be wrong) to garner up sympathy.  If you had come on here and just introduced yourself, without any other references..you could have had a clean sheet until you messed up HERE.

btw:  Your icon on Fauna is aimed at the very people you want to sell to..I do not call this good business to be insulting the people that are potential customers.

BTW2:  WELCOME!! :Very Happy:

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## Bruce Whitehead

Sounds like the complaints against you are quite valid, and as noted, you came here and brought up your past.

Usually that is called trolling. Dredging up crap from other forums on new forums. 

I belong to forums on 3 continents, and I see the SAME names on each one. So best way to change your rep is to work on it. People have long memories on these sites, and rightfully so. 

If there is even a hint of 4-7 years on a wasted project. Which is 4-7 years that you were not investing in that same project elsewhere. I would be choked, and I would hope that others would warn me if there was even the remotest chance that I could be ripped off.

Not everyone has the savvy to know this, and to know what to ask, what documentation is needed, and exactly how the genetics work. They see you as a breeder and an expert. That is a heady place to be, and you need to respect and honor that.

I think people holding you accountable and not letting you off the hook is MORE than fair. You need to prove yourself to them, NOT the other way around. 

I do not follow Fauna, but I do the odd BOI search when I find a new breeder that I want to deal with. So I would have missed your saga had you not brought it up. 

So I guess thank you for that.

The people (in my experience) that are the most intolerant of the misreprensation of animals and vague promises are those that have proven themselves, and keep in mind they know how the industry works (and it is a SMALL one). Some have been ripped off early on, to find out 4-5 years later they were sold fake hets. So nothing being lobbed at you is unjust or unfair.

In addition, several of those showing prominently in this dialogue are people that I respect and whose words I take seriously. I do not need to read through the Fauna Dramatique to feel comfortable taking their synopsis as the truth.

Bruce

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ReptileJay (12-27-2008),_Shadera_ (05-27-2009)

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## Shadera

Seems this gem is back among us, using a different account and name.  But I have a suspicion by looking at their site that nothing has changed.

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=92549

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## disabled.101

> Seems this gem is back among us, using a different account and name.  But I have a suspicion by looking at their site that nothing has changed.
> 
> http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=92549


So wait... That's against TOS no? The whole multiple accounts for one person thing?
Didn't the OP state he was not on here to advertise. Just to learn and be an active member of the herp community?

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## pavlovk1025

Ohhhh snap.

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## janeothejungle

> Seems this gem is back among us, using a different account and name.  But I have a suspicion by looking at their site that nothing has changed.
> 
> http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=92549


Niiiice. Well, why change when you're such a class act to begin with, eh?


~Kat

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## llovelace

Whats is this persons last name?

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## mooingtricycle

Thats how the scumbags roll.... they dont get sales, so they make up fake names to try to sell elsewhere... thinking the internet is private or some crap...........

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