# Ball Pythons > General BP's >  Feeding Mice VS Rats

## fluffy3

OK Im sure this has been asked many times I just cant seam to find any of the posts! 
Is there a huge difference between feeding mice or rats? My snake was on rats when I first got him stupid me bought mice to feed him instead of sticking to rats Ive had major feeding issues ever since Ive tried to switch back to rats It seams he just doesnt like the rat stink  :Razz:  So I sented them with mouse that I had leftover It worked for a few feeds but Its just not working anymore and now he is missing feeds and Im more stressed than him!! 
So on to the questions He is about 280 grams and I feed every 7 days (I try!!) should I keep trying to feed the rat pups or should I just switch to mice seeing he seams to prefer them and how many should I feed? one or 2 adults per feed also as a full grown snake how much will I be looking to give him per feed?? I can get eithe rat or mouse easily mice would cost more in the long run BUT Im not too concerned about cost just the health of my snakie  :Smile:  
I always seam to write a novel when asking a question!! sorry  :Embarassed:

----------


## kitedemon

There is a bit of nutritional difference but not a massive one the problem will come when he is bigger, for example I have a 1600 gm male that would need 160 gm a meal assuming I can get 50 gm (large mice) That is 5 or 6 a feeding, it just gets complicated at that point. A feeding snake is always a good thing there are mouse feeders out there but they are not as common. I'd try to switch but take it really slow scent first and than start pinkies and go from there.

----------


## kitedemon

http://www.nal.usda.gov/awic/zoo/Who...nal02May29.pdf

I forgot the link.

----------


## OtterGoRun

The breeder I have dealt with in the past a few times keeps his on mice their entire lives, just feeding multiples when the snake is larger.  I have been doing the same with my snakes, since they were raised on mice and seem to prefer them.  I have heard that rats are a bit more nutritious, but not so much it is a "you have to switch" but more a "it is preferred you switch".  In my opinion, it is more important that the snakes eats rather than WHAT he eats.  If he is hunger striking on rats, don't feed them.

----------


## Stewart_Reptiles

Gram per gram it's all the same however when the snake is full grown it really becomes a matter of convenience.

Obviously feeding one prey item is more convenient than feeding 3 to 5 prey items.

Depending on whether you have a male or a female feeding will be slightly different.

----------


## fluffy3

Thanx I do appreciate the advice!! I think I am going to keep trying for rat I will get a new frozen mouse maybe I need a fresh one to really sent the rats I think i will buy some smaller rats and feed him a couple until he gets the "taste" of them I just hate that he isnt eating lately and even when he was it was a 30 min to hour process of trying to convince him to take the rat! sometimes he "kills" the F/T and leaves it Then I re-heat and re-sent and he "kills" it all over again finally he eats (for the most part) but the last few feeds got harder and he refused I hope he is good and hungry when I feed again Wish me luck  :Smile:

----------


## ballpython20s

im lucky mine will only take rats

----------


## RichsBallPythons

Im here to say rats are better than mice.

Having a female 2 years in a row lay 14 fertile eggs that go down hill who would only eat mice. She has since been moved to rats and i will be even more convinced next season when she lays a healthy clutch.

This female is also 4.5 years old at 1500g peaked. On mice she would not get any bigger than this eating 2 breeder mice a week. I feed all adults 50-80g per feeding and thats all they ever need. Ever since she laid her eggs 2 months ago, she has already filled out and passed up 1500g being on rats only now.  :Good Job: 


Males on other hand IDC what their eating as long as they eat.

----------


## kellysballs

Okay I did a statistics project on feeding mice vs rats to baby balls for their first 16 meals. Gram for gram there was no statistically significant difference in growth rates between animals fed mice vs animals fed rats. However the animals we did not use in the study where significantly larger than those used in the study because we fed them rat pups from the get go. Ave rat pup size is 14-24g while ave small mouse is less than 10g normally 6-8g. So the rat eating animals in the study had to eat rat pinks and fuzzys because of the gram weight difference. So basically the more grams your animals eats the more it will grow period. It doesn't matter if it's rats or mice. Rats however are larger and given a single prey item it will provide way more food to the snake than any single mouse will. Weigh your mice see how much you are actually feeding them and know that small rats range from 50-70g.

----------


## AK907

I feed rats only. Rats are more nutritious. You may not notice a big difference at first, but after a few feedings the difference really shows. They are fatter and healthier. It sucks having to feeding multiple mice to get the same amount of nutrition anyways. Why anyone would feed mice to ball pythons is beyond me.

----------


## RichsBallPythons

> I feed rats only. Rats are more nutritious. You may not notice a big difference at first, but after a few feedings the difference really shows. They are fatter and healthier. It sucks having to feeding multiple mice to get the same amount of nutrition anyways. Why anyone would feed mice to ball pythons is beyond me.


Keep in mind majority of breeders start non holdbacks on Mice as their cheaper and easier for the customer to get their hands on. Rats are expensive and not always easily assessable in every city. 

If a customer wants me to move them off mice to f/t rats I will do so.

----------


## MikeV

Im a strong believer that there is nutritional differences among prey items 

What I mean is.. if you feed a BP (in this case) mice from the day its born and keep it on mice its entire life, then get another BP and feed it rats for its whole life. I would bet money that the rat fed BP will be bigger

I learnt this with boas a long time ago. I realized that mouse fed RTB's are TINY compared to my RTB Powder at just about the same age. Why is that? Well because I have always fed her a nice big juicy healthy rat. I only had to feed mice on two occasions and I dont plan to ever do it again.

What else did I learn about prey size in relation to RTB's size? If a RTB is kept on rats its entire life it will (Remember.. there are exceptions!) stay smaller infact MUCH smaller than a boa that has been fed on rabbits.

My reasoning for saying that is because I have seen all the threads on various forums about the INSANE growth spurt a boa can go through when it is fed on rabbits. I once saw a thread where a female boa got switched over to rabbits and then a year or two later I saw an update and she had grown from 7 foot to 9 - 10 foot.

I have seen plenty of evidence to convince me that certain prey items are better nutritionally than others

----------


## fluffy3

Thanks everyone! I wish I had never bought a mouse to feed my BP! I thought he wouldnt know the difference and he would eat anything I was so wrong!! So I have gotten another rat pup and he should be good and hungry by now I am hoping he takes it!! If not I will sent with that mouse I still have stashed in the freezer  :Smile:  wish me luck  :Please:

----------


## Toby_H

I suspect gram per gram, a rodent is a rodent... 

While I surely believe that different foods will have different nutritional values, I just don't think that mice vs rats, or even rats vs rabbits, is enough of a difference to change their nutritional value (other than mass of the prey item). 

Breeder mice are easier to deal with but the mouse has to be older to be of a usable mass. Rat breeders are more work to keep but their offspring can be used as food at a much younger age (compared to mice).

----------


## bethanysbananas

> I feed rats only. Rats are more nutritious. You may not notice a big difference at first, but after a few feedings the difference really shows. They are fatter and healthier. It sucks having to feeding multiple mice to get the same amount of nutrition anyways. Why anyone would feed mice to ball pythons is beyond me.




Ive fed both my BPS for 20 years on just two mice every two weeks and theyre perfectly healthy, they have great sheds, perfect poops and have been alive for 20 years and weigh over 4 lbs each . Rats do have more calcium in theyre bones . But adult mice have less hair and a lot less fat compaired to rats .I say either or can be a great thing . I use adult mice with calcium spray and ive never had any isses . As to your comment towards rats vs rabbits . Its pretty obvious that if you feed a snake bigger food it'll get bigger to be able to eat its food better . Ad well as a snake never stops growing so technically its always going to have growth spirts .

----------


## Expensive hobby

> There is a bit of nutritional difference but not a massive one the problem will come when he is bigger, for example I have a 1600 gm male that would need 160 gm a meal assuming I can get 50 gm (large mice) That is 5 or 6 a feeding, it just gets complicated at that point. A feeding snake is always a good thing there are mouse feeders out there but they are not as common. I'd try to switch but take it really slow scent first and than start pinkies and go from there.


Just to address the elephant in the room. A BP that is 1500g should be taking prey items much larger than 150g.  That is following the 10% rule, which is only applicable to hatchlings. I have balls that are only 200g taking small rats. Most people seem to underfeed their BP's.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 3

----------

Gouzman (04-28-2014)

----------


## satomi325

Zombie Thread folks...

The differences are nearly identical except on fat content. You have to compare animals of the same size.
An adult mouse is not going to be the same as an adult rat. But a 10 gram mouse is going to be nearly the same as a 10 gram rat.
The only real benefits of feeding rats is that you just have to feed one rat to compared to multiple mice.
It's more of a convenience factor than higher nutritional value.


Nutrient Composition of Whole Vertebrate Prey by RodentPro:
Adult mice (>10g)
- Kcal/g =5.25
- Crude protein % = 55.8
- Crude fat % =23.6

Rats (10-50g)
- kcal/g = 5.55
- Crude protein % = 56.1
- Crude fat % = 27.5

http://www.rodentpro.com/qpage_articles_03.asp

Whole prey according to the USDA(page 14 of their PDF provided below):
Adult mice (>10g)
- Kcalorie/g =5.77
- Crude protein % = 56.9
- Crude fat % = 23.5

Rats (10-50g)
- kcalorie/g = 5.67
- Crude protein % = 60.3
- Crude fat % = 26

http://www.nal.usda.gov/awic/zoo/Who...nal02May29.pdf

Additional data found on a non scientific source:
Adult mice (>10g)
- kcal/g = 5.25
- Crude protein % = 55.8
- Crude fat % = 23.6

Rats (10-50g)
-kcal/g =5.55
- crude protein % =56.1
- crude fat % = 27.5

http://www.leedspetshops.co.uk/nutri...snakes-page-69





> Just to address the elephant in the room. A BP that is 1500g should be taking prey items much larger than 150g.  That is following the 10% rule, which is only applicable to hatchlings. I have balls that are only 200g taking small rats. Most people seem to underfeed their BP's.
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 3


I disagree. Most people here actually overfeed their snakes. 
A small rat(80-150g) is perfectly fine for an adult. They have a slower metabolism than growing hatchlings. 
I feed all my adult males small rats. Females under 2000g also get small rats. The bigger gals get mediums.
And none of my snakes are thin. They are actually on the chunky side.

----------

_GoingPostal_ (04-07-2014),OodlesOfNoodles (04-28-2014)

----------


## PweEzy

This thread is almost 3 years old... haha

----------


## Stewart_Reptiles

I know it's an old thread but I really have to address this.


> A BP that is 1500g should be taking prey items much larger than 150g.


Really? 

How many adult BP do you have? How many 200, 250 or even 400 grams rats have you been feeding?

I have females well over 2000, 2500, 3000 and even one at 4000 grams and they never eat anything bigger then a 120 gram rat , 150 at the very most. 

Can they take larger rats, sure they can, it's more risky when feeding live but additionally I can tell you that based on my experience, if you feed a large rat not even 10% of their body weight (less say a 200 grams rats to a 4000 grams female) , the animal will be sluggish for days, and likely to refuse food for a week or two after feeding. Feeding smaller prey weekly allow animals to eat with more consistency.




> Most people seem to underfeed their BP's.


Quite the opposite BP in captivities get more food then they would ever get in the wild, they are far from being underfed.

----------

_AlexisFitzy_ (04-06-2014),cattleya0507 (03-28-2019),_GoingPostal_ (04-28-2014),_Mike41793_ (04-28-2014),OodlesOfNoodles (04-28-2014),_satomi325_ (04-06-2014)

----------


## Expensive hobby

> I know it's an old thread but I really have to address this.
> Really? 
> 
> How many adult BP do you have? How many 200, 250 or even 400 grams rats have you been feeding?
> 
> I have females well over 2000, 2500, 3000 and even one at 4000 grams and they never eat anything bigger then a 120 gram rat , 150 at the very most. 
> 
> Can they take larger rats, sure they can, it's more risky when feeding live but additionally I can tell you that based on my experience, if you feed a large rat not even 10% of their body weight (less say a 200 grams rats to a 4000 grams female) , the animal will be sluggish for days, and likely to refuse food for a week or two after feeding. Feeding smaller prey weekly allow animals to eat with more consistency.
> 
> Quite the opposite BP in captivities get more food then they would ever get in the wild, they are far from being underfed.


Actually I don't have very many adult BP's.  Just adult Retics, adult Burns, adult Anacondas, and adult Boas.

Obviously different animals but let's say for example my biggest retic is 35lbs and over 12' long. Going by the 10% rule she would only be taking 3.5lb rabbits. Way under sized for her. If I let her she would eat two-three 6-7lb rabbits.

Retics take a little bigger prey than BP'S but it's the same concept. And all of my snakes are lean and athletic. Very fast and agile. 

Seems like a lot of BP owners feed so small you can't even tell the snake eats. Too many people get hung up on the Golden 10% rule. Obviously that rule doesn't always work.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 3

----------


## Stewart_Reptiles

> Actually I don't have very many adult BP's.  Just adult Retics, adult Burns, adult Anacondas, and adult Boas.
> 
> Obviously different animals but let's say for example my biggest retic is 35lbs and over 12' long. Going by the 10% rule she would only be taking 3.5lb rabbits. Way under sized for her. If I let her she would eat two-three 6-7lb rabbits.


And BP are not Boas or Retics or even Blood or Carpet for that matter.  :Good Job: , you can't compare how you feed one species with how to feed another species.

----------


## Expensive hobby

> And BP are not Boas or Retics or even Blood or Carpet for that matter. , you can't compare how you feed one species with how to feed another species.


You are correct. BP'S are not Boas or Retics or even Blood or Carpets  :Good Job: 

I guess we can just agree to disagree on the 10% rule.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 3

----------


## kc261

Rats & mice DO have different nutritional values, no question about it.  But I've always been of the opinion that the differences are small enough it is not likely to matter to a ball python.  And, even if one is slightly more optimal than the other, I'm aware of no scientific studies that tell us what optimal nutrition for a BP is, so how would we know if rats or mice are better?  For example, rats have a higher % fat than mice, but is more fat good for a ball python?  Or bad?

Rats might make them grow faster, although most of the anecdotal evidence I've seen in that direction is cases where the rat-fed BPs were also getting more food overall, so even that is suspect.  But, I also don't think we have a good idea of how fast growth should be to be optimal for their long-term health.

As far as the 10% rule, or any similar rule...it seems to me that however much you are feeding a snake, you'd want to feed them more in comparison to their body weight when they are young and growing rapidly than you would when they are adults.  So, for example, if you feed them 10% as hatchlings, then you might feed them only 5% as adults.  Or, if you feed them 10% as adults, you might feed them 15% as hatchlings.  Or maybe you feed them the same % of their body weight their entire lives, but you feed them more frequently when they are young and less frequently when they are adults.  I'm really curious, Expensive Hobby, why you think the opposite is true?

One thing that is for sure true is it is faster and easier to feed a BP a single rat than multiple mice.  And, every once in a while you'll get a snake that isn't fond of taking a 2nd prey item in one meal, and so there would be a significant advantage to that particular snake to eating rats.

----------

_GoingPostal_ (04-28-2014)

----------


## Expensive hobby

> Rats & mice DO have different nutritional values, no question about it.  But I've always been of the opinion that the differences are small enough it is not likely to matter to a ball python.  And, even if one is slightly more optimal than the other, I'm aware of no scientific studies that tell us what optimal nutrition for a BP is, so how would we know if rats or mice are better?  For example, rats have a higher % fat than mice, but is more fat good for a ball python?  Or bad?
> 
> Rats might make them grow faster, although most of the anecdotal evidence I've seen in that direction is cases where the rat-fed BPs were also getting more food overall, so even that is suspect.  But, I also don't think we have a good idea of how fast growth should be to be optimal for their long-term health.
> 
> As far as the 10% rule, or any similar rule...it seems to me that however much you are feeding a snake, you'd want to feed them more in comparison to their body weight when they are young and growing rapidly than you would when they are adults.  So, for example, if you feed them 10% as hatchlings, then you might feed them only 5% as adults.  Or, if you feed them 10% as adults, you might feed them 15% as hatchlings.  Or maybe you feed them the same % of their body weight their entire lives, but you feed them more frequently when they are young and less frequently when they are adults.  I'm really curious, Expensive Hobby, why you think the opposite is true?
> 
> One thing that is for sure true is it is faster and easier to feed a BP a single rat than multiple mice.  And, every once in a while you'll get a snake that isn't fond of taking a 2nd prey item in one meal, and so there would be a significant advantage to that particular snake to eating rats.


You nailed it in the frequency of feeding comment. I believe that younger snakes do need more nutrition than their adult counterparts, but they achieve it through more frequent and smaller meals. While I believe adults benefit from a larger meal each feeding based on the percentage of their body weight but offered less frequently.

Another thing that people seem to skip right over in these debates on the 10% rule, is sure a hatchling is growing quicker than an adult,  so the need for more nutrition is evident, however a hatchling doesn't have the type of demand that a larger snake has. Example? An adult snake has to move more mass. And adult snake has breeding to think about. An adult snake has growing to do in its own right, whilst it goes through physiological changes as it becomes a sexually mature animal. Ovulation, egg production, mating and copulation, months on end without food. All nutrituonal demands that hatchlings don't have to deal with.

That is why I believe a larger meal per body weight percentage is important for adult animals. Getting longer and heavier aren't the only things going on here. Gotta think outside the box. 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 3

----------


## Gouzman

> Just to address the elephant in the room. A BP that is 1500g should be taking prey items much larger than 150g.  That is following the 10% rule, which is only applicable to hatchlings. I have balls that are only 200g taking small rats. Most people seem to underfeed their BP's.
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 3


My male ball python weighs 260 g and easily takes weaned rates of 60- 70 g. Compared to my two girls that are fed a mouse of 40g he is growing much quicker than the other.

Going to switch them to rats ASAP.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

----------

_Expensive hobby_ (04-28-2014)

----------


## Expensive hobby

> My male ball python weighs 260 g and easily takes weaned rates of 60- 70 g. Compared to my two girls that are fed a mouse of 40g he is growing much quicker than the other.
> 
> Going to switch them to rats ASAP.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Yes quick growth isn't bad. A lot of people seem to associate quick growth, with the kind of growth you see with power feeding. They just aren't the same thing. I've seen a segment where Brian from BHB tested the theory of meal size, and frequency affecting growth rates in snakes, and he said hands down larger meals offer better growth rates. As long as you don't over do it, there is nothing wrong with a snake growing to its potential, as long as it doesn't become obese in the process. Healthy weight gain and obesity are obviously two very different things.

Most of my snakes will gladly accept much more than I feed, and I still feed pretty heavy. In my experience that goes to show that feeding a little bit larger than the 10% rule can be beneficial. But i will also not power feed. I want healthy growth rates. No pin heads in my collection.  :Smile: 

Like Us On Facebook
Adrenaline Pumping Reptiles

----------

Gouzman (04-28-2014)

----------


## Gouzman

> Yes quick growth isn't bad. A lot of people seem to associate quick growth, with the kind of growth you see with power feeding. They just aren't the same thing. I've seen a segment where Brian from BHB tested the theory of meal size, and frequency affecting growth rates in snakes, and he said hands down larger meals offer better growth rates. As long as you don't over do it, there is nothing wrong with a snake growing to its potential, as long as it doesn't become obese in the process. Healthy weight gain and obesity are obviously two very different things.
> 
> Most of my snakes will gladly accept much more than I feed, and I still feed pretty heavy. In my experience that goes to show that feeding a little bit larger than the 10% rule can be beneficial. But i will also not power feed. I want healthy growth rates. No pin heads in my collection. 
> 
> Like Us On Facebook
> Adrenaline Pumping Reptiles


I agree 100%. I was nervous at first to switch him from mice to weaned rats as I did not want him to regurge, so I made sure that he got the rat down and I increased the temp in his enclosure by a degree or two, didn't disturb him for four days after eating (except changing water) and only feed him every seven days. He is always hungry come feeding day.

I think the 10% rule is a great indicator to those that aren't sure of how much to feed, but if your snake is happy with what you feed then it's ok I suppose. 

He doesn't display any signs of obesity and is growing really well.

I swear by feeding rats compared to mice based on the results I have seen, but whatever works for the individual keeper is what's best for them I suppose.

Here is a pic of my little guy cuddling a rat




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

----------

_Expensive hobby_ (04-28-2014)

----------


## sho220

> A BP that is 1500g should be taking prey items much larger than 150g.


That statement is wacked...

----------

_CptJack_ (07-04-2014),_Mike41793_ (04-28-2014)

----------


## John1982

It's more of a guideline than rule folks. I've never weighed a prey item in my life, I learned from experience what worked best with my specific animals. Some weeks I'll give an animal 2 smaller meals, one larger meal, or even skip them altogether - I focus more on build and muscle tone than blindly following a set feeding regimen. 

It is a good starting point though when you're trying to explain to someone, using only words and text mind you, what prey size they should be offering their snake. With so many other factors involved: ambient temperature, hot spot, age, growth, metabolism, stress levels, parasites, etc - it's virtually impossible to tell someone, with accuracy, what they should be feeding their snake.

I reckon the 10% "idea" came along as a safe guideline to help newbies get some experience without putting their animals in any undue risk. Then they can post up pictures and we can say, "maybe a bit more, maybe a bit less, perfecto - keep it up." 

My advice is to learn what your specific species of snake looks like in the wild. I'm talking an average, healthy individual. Don't aim for some emaciated animal that has obviously fallen on tough times or a glutton who has broken into a hen house and just eaten 12 chickens - those aren't good examples of averages.. Find your healthy average and feed to achieve that look in your captives.

----------

_Expensive hobby_ (04-28-2014),_Mike41793_ (04-28-2014)

----------


## Expensive hobby

> That statement is wacked...


And it is "wacked" for what reason?

150g-265g is considered a "large" rat. You don't have any beepers on large rats? And lest us not forget that weight is not directly proportionate to prey size either.

You can have 2 rats that weigh exactly 150g and one can be physically much larger than the other. That's why I don't feed primarily based on weight. The snakes get the correct sized prey items by me looking at them, and choosing what physically is the best "fit."

Like Us On Facebook
Adrenaline Pumping Reptiles

----------


## sho220

> And it is "wacked" for what reason?
> 
> 150g-265g is considered a "large" rat. You don't have any beepers on large rats? And lest us not forget that weight is not directly proportionate to prey size either.
> 
> You can have 2 rats that weigh exactly 150g and one can be physically much larger than the other. That's why I don't feed primarily based on weight. The snakes get the correct sized prey items by me looking at them, and choosing what physically is the best "fit."
> 
> Like Us On Facebook
> Adrenaline Pumping Reptiles


I have one BP on large rats...an adult female. I don't know how much she weighs as my scale doesn't go high enough. But the male she's locked with in the pic below was close to 1500 grams...I have a few more females who take mediums, but no way could any of my 1500 gram balls take a large rat.

----------

_AlexisFitzy_ (04-28-2014),_satomi325_ (04-28-2014),whatsherface (04-28-2014)

----------


## bcr229

Wow!  That is a _big_ girl.  Any sub-saharan in her?

----------


## creatism

Mmm I'll chime in with my own data on this. 
Firstly I have a lesser and a spider girl, the spider girl prefers mice but will eat rats, the lesser is the opposite. (I keep carpets as well so I like feeding BIG meals!) on feeding every 5-10 days (I breed my own feeders so my production dictates my feeding schedule) the mouser is sitting at 12 months old and 650g, the rat eater is the same age (within a week or so) and is 1100g.
Now with carpets, carpets get bigger when you stretch their mouths and throat. When I start feeding them med/large rats and feed every 2-3wks that's when they really start to grow!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

----------


## OodlesOfNoodles

I really don't think there is a right or wrong way when it comes to mice or rats. Just comes down to personal preference and what the snake wants to eat. 

I just take out whatever animal/size is in the freezer for that day. Although I mainly use multis, with the occasional rat, gerbil and mouse. Personally, I won't feed mice again as the majority of the diet! Not unless was breeding my own, pet shop sizes are really small! Having a seasonal fasting mouser just creates a big headache/worry, especially if they only eat one at a time.

On the occasion they do get something larger, I'll wait 2 weeks before feeding again. One of my adults still seems to enjoy, well inhales baby rats! I like reading about how other people feed! Just comes down to personal preference and what works for you and yours!

----------


## Morris Reese

Call me crazy, extremist, or whatever. I order quantities of F/T rats that are basically around 10% of my snakes body weight. When I get them in I weigh each one and put it in a ziplock bag with the weight wrote on the bag and put them in a freezer with the biggest to the bottom and smallest to the top. My snake starts with the smallest and eats her way to the largest. I only have the one snake right now, so it's not much work. I track everything more than needed, but it's just fun to me to be able to see how she is progressing. I do plan to breed her and plan to purchase more snakes, so I'm sure this will change with more animals to tend to!

----------


## scalrtn

OK, so I've had my 8-month or so old BP for about a month now.  It was raised on pinkie/fuzzy mice per PetSmart and recently took his first "small"  mouse.  He's a great eater!  How difficult is it to switch over to rats, and WHEN exactly should it be done?  - thanks!

----------


## Morris Reese

> OK, so I've had my 8-month or so old BP for about a month now.  It was raised on pinkie/fuzzy mice per PetSmart and recently took his first "small"  mouse.  He's a great eater!  How difficult is it to switch over to rats, and WHEN exactly should it be done?  - thanks!


I would start with rats now if she will take them. My snake is only 4 months old and eats weaned rats now. They range between 40-50 grams each. A small mouse sounds like a really small meal for an 8 month old BP.

----------


## sho220

> Wow! That is a _big_ girl. Any sub-saharan in her?


I'm not sure. Jon of coldbloodedaddiction would probably know better than I would. I acquired her in a trade from a buddy of his, but I believe Jon hatched her out...from what I remember she came from a line of wild caught females that Jon got from Ian G back in 2003'ish??? I believe she has something "extra" going on, so hopefully next year I'll prove that out... :Wink:  I gave her this year off, but the clutch she gave me last year looked promising.  :Very Happy:

----------


## socalvaping714

Quick question for everyone here. Need a little help, kind of worried. My Ball is about three years old, never head a problem feeding although she just finished a fast about 5 weeks ago. I fed her on Thursday and took it immediately everything was normal. Well just now she threw it up. The rat was not completely digested you could definitely tell it was a rat(tail paws etc). Then right after that had diarrhea. Really worried, she's never been sick or had problems like this. Any help or suggestions?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

----------


## sho220

> Quick question for everyone here. Need a little help, kind of worried. My Ball is about three years old, never head a problem feeding although she just finished a fast about 5 weeks ago. I fed her on Thursday and took it immediately everything was normal. Well just now she threw it up. The rat was not completely digested you could definitely tell it was a rat(tail paws etc). Then right after that had diarrhea. Really worried, she's never been sick or had problems like this. Any help or suggestions?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What kind of heat are you providing? Does she have belly heat and what are your temps?

----------


## socalvaping714

I have a heat lamp as well as an under tank heater. Warm side is around 90 cool side around 82. It was a pretty hot day today in Cali (around 103) so I was thinking maybe the big spike in temperature maybe drove it up in her cage while I was at work and caused her to throw up. Right after I cleaned it all up checked the temp then gave her cage a spritz of water to help bring humidity up

----------


## sho220

> I have a heat lamp as well as an under tank heater. Warm side is around 90 cool side around 82. It was a pretty hot day today in Cali (around 103) so I was thinking maybe the big spike in temperature maybe drove it up in her cage while I was at work and caused her to throw up. Right after I cleaned it all up checked the temp then gave her cage a spritz of water to help bring humidity up


103?? Good grief! Does it always get that hot this early in the year there? That's insane...

Not sure about the regurge...usually it's too _low_ a temp after feeding that causes it.  :Confused:

----------


## socalvaping714

Three days ago it was raining now it's expected to be in the 100's all week. The joys of living in a state that doesn't really do any season other then summer well. I'm thinking with the regurge and diarrhea she was too hot. Emptied her stomach (and rear end) to retro cool down cause now she's curled underneath her water tank

----------


## RNBOWJESTER76

I bought a collection of BPs from a guy and he advised that most ate mice F/T and 2 ate LIVE. In the beginning I was able to get my green tree to eat  hopper mice but now cant even get her to strike  and hold and coil on to that I tried to up her to pinky rats and she wont even take that she strikes but that is it. My large girls that are 1200 and 1300 grams one ate live mice and one that ate F/T will not even strike at the  pinky rats, the weaned rats, small rats, small/med rats or even med/large rats then my others wont strike the small/med rat pups or the weaned rat pups. thatallact head shy and it has been 2 months now since i had them. I need some help because they are drinking, growing, no mites, I keep the rack system at 84 and the temp inside registers at 80 so its not hot in the tanks....PLEASE HELP  :Confused:  :Confused:  :Confused:

----------


## artgecko

Rnbowjester76-  Do you have a temp gun or something to check temps on the warm and cool ends of the tubs?  
I believe BPs need a warm temp of 90 on the hot end and 80 on the cool end.  If they are too cool, they won't eat.  Also what is the room temp they are in?  I've heard that you need to keep the room temp around 75 or higher to ensure the temp on the cool end of the tubs is warm enough.  

I don't have a rack setup yet and only 1BP, so I'm not an expert (I have other species though). But I think if you increase your warm end temp it should help.

----------


## GTDezign

I just finished a box of 4 large mice for my baby ball python - the dude has a pretty good gurth to him. Should I just compare the size of large mice to small rats, I know that rats are a bit healthier for them. I don't know what to expect from the dude if I do give him rats, instead of mice. Any suggestions would help me out a lot.

----------

