# Ball Pythons > General BP's >  Snake didn't eat... What do I do with the live rat pup?

## Elise.m

Title says it all. Unfortunately I got a really cute rat pup, and we're just looking at it like "Hm.. Well what now?" Should I just keep it around til I want to try and feed her next? And if so, what do they eat? The pup has barely opened its eyes.

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## BAD Morphs

> Title says it all. Unfortunately I got a really cute rat pup, and we're just looking at it like "Hm.. Well what now?" Should I just keep it around til I want to try and feed her next? And if so, what do they eat? The pup has barely opened its eyes.


you could also freeze it and try f/t with the snake! I am unsure of the age or weight of the snake but it sounds to be very small so you might have a hard time getting it to eat f/t unless you have gotten it to before or the previous owner had. And if it is too young and was taken from the mother and not weaned yet it will prolly die because it was still on the mothers milk. But in any case you can try dog food or something of the sort rats will pretty much eat anything.

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## Elise.m

Yeah, the snake is pretty small. I was told she's a month old. She looks to be a little on the thin side, so we tried feeding her after 4 days of being in our care. What would you think about leaving it in the tank over night and seeing it it's gone in the morning?

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## jblaze

So are you reccomending to freeze a live rat pup? That's awesome! Well, not really but hey, great advice.

What you could do is search www.google.com for what rat pups eat-and go from there.

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## jblaze

I would not reccomend leaving any live prey item unattended with your snake. Although if they do not have teeth it would be worth a try.

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## Elise.m

Well right about now freezing it is one of my options. It's either it starves to death (That's if it's not weaned, I have no idea.), cuz I'm not gonna offer food again for another 5 days, or it freezes to death. Either is horrible, and I hate to do it. I'm sure the guy I bought it from wouldn't be that understanding.

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## jblaze

It does not hurt to try although in your situation it may be your only option. Just hope it does not have to suffer for very long. (Deep Freeze)

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## pavlovk1025

Hey I have a month old hatchling that didnt eat the 2 rat fuzzies that I had bought her. I left them in with her for the past day and a half...she's now in her hide with two little bulges in her tummy. Just leave it in there....

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## tompson

Rather than let it die (slowly) in the freezer, you could just kill the rat instantaneously and then toss it in the freezer if that's what you choose to do. Either place it in a bag and give it a good whack on something solid, or place a ruler (or other flat object) behind the rats head, and with the rat lying on a table or something, pull up sharply on the tail (breaking the rats neck/spinal cord).  :Good Job:

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## pavlovk1025

If it barely opened its eyes or still has closed eyes, it's probably not going to hurt your snake. Just leave it, it'll eat.

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## CoolioTiffany

If the pup doesn't get it's mother's milk, it will eventually die in a few days. Rat pups cannot survive when they are that young, especially when their eyes are still closed. I was told this because my Dumeril's boa had a f/t mice problem (wouldn't take it.. 2 months of trying!) and so I gave her a rat pup and she took it that night :]
How were you trying to feed your snake? How I got my boa to eat the rat pup was that I put the pup in the enclosure by the snake, turned off ALL of the lights in the room, and closed the door. Every hour I would check, and it took the boa a few hours to take it (all snakes are different, so youre's may take less time or more time). Good luck!

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## h00blah

this is the exact question i asked the guy who sold me live hopper mice... HAHA he showed me how to kill a mouse ><;.... there was NO way i had the backbone to do that LAWL. im so glad my snakes ate teh hoppers.... 
nooo way.... 


oh ya, but he basically said put 2 fingers on the back of the head, and 2 fingers at the base of the tail, and pull.... its instant, and its humane... i just cannot do it =D  :Wag of the finger:

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## STEW

Put it in a pillow case and smash it on the floor..... You wont see what you are doing so it takes that i just killed something feeling away a lil bit....lol

With a rat that small though, I would just hit it in the head with a spoon and put in a sandwich bag then freeze.... or flush it down the toilet. Think about it, you arent losing any money really cuz if the snake had ate, the rat would be gone.....just offer a fresh one next week. Unless of course u want to try to care for the thing......

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## dr del

Hi,

I'd just like to point out to all the people who say "bash it against a wall" that doing so is animal abuse and could result in you going to court and losing the right to keep any animals at all.

Keep it humane or keep it to yourself.


dr del

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ballpythonluvr (07-29-2009),_Bundu Boy_ (07-29-2009),_ColinWeaver_ (07-30-2009),_dc4teg_ (07-29-2009),_littleindiangirl_ (07-29-2009),_Mitch21_ (07-30-2009),_mrshawt_ (07-29-2009),MsPrada (07-29-2009)

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## ballpythonluvr

I had a rat pup that my snake refused to eat once.  I bought some soy based infant formula at the grocery store and fed it.  I kept the rat pup alive long enough for my snake to eat it at his next scheduled feeding.  The soy based infant formula was recommended by a website that I found online on how to care for orphaned rats.  By no means should you freeze or whack the rat pup.  That is just inhumane.  You need to be prepared to deal with the fact that your snake may not always eat a meal and that you may be stuck with a live rat or mouse.  Good Luck to you.

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_Bundu Boy_ (07-29-2009),_Elise.m_ (07-29-2009),_mrshawt_ (07-29-2009)

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## STEW

> I'd just like to point out to all the people who say "bash it against a wall" that doing so is animal abuse and could result in you going to court and losing the right to keep any animals at all.


No kidding? I cant believe that, what about mouse traps and such? I dont see the difference. Glue traps are the worst, then you have to drown the thing or let it suffer for real and just throw it out to die from either lack of water or most likely suffocation due to the glue ending up in the nasal cavity and the mouth being glued shut from trying to get off the pad........ Would it be ok if you bought a mouse trap and put the mouse and trap in an enclosure together prior to feeding? Im just wondering because Ive never heard anyone say that before.

On a side note.....I could positively say without a doubt, that I would rather drive my motorcycle into a wall at 100 mph than to die not being able to breathe while my bones are being crushed. I feel I am being humane to the dirty little creatures......

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## dr del

Hi,

The difference being one is a wild animal classed as vermin which you are legally allowed to kill and the other is an animal you own classed as a pet which you are legally obliged to take care of and treat well.

And I'd rather I was the first person explaining that to you rather than a judge or animal welfare officer.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 


dr del

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ballpythonluvr (07-30-2009)

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## STEW

I see, so i need to let it escape first for a few days... :Smile:  Guess F/T is the way to go. I have always prekilled just because I have this notion that a thawed out dead animal is going to smell horrid..... Im probably wrong on that but I have a mental block

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## knott00

> I see, so i need to let it escape first for a few days... Guess F/T is the way to go. I have always prekilled just because I have this notion that a thawed out dead animal is going to smell horrid..... Im probably wrong on that but I have a mental block



Honestly, I can't smell my thawed mice at all. As long as you freeze it as soon as it's dead, you won't have to worry about the smell.

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## Elise.m

Thanks for all the suggestions! I didn't leave it in overnight. I don't think she would have eaten. She's been home since Saturday, the breeder told us to try feeding her in 2-3 days. Which I should have known to wait 7, but we decided to try. 

When he was showing us the snake, she hissed at him about 3 times when he picked her up and was just turning her around so we could see her. My BF had a gut feeling that she might be a picky one that would give us trouble, but didn't share that feeling with me. Does anyone think this might be the case? I didn't ask for a feeding record cuz he said "Well we have so many babies we can't keep track" So I'm gonna call today and ask again in case another employee knows. After all, she was the last lemon pastel, you'd think someone would remember.

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## aaramire

It worries me that the breeder said they have too many babies to keep track of when everyone eats. I know personally that there are great breeders who keep thousands of snakes, and they have cards on the front of the snakes tubs, which they can add info about eating, shedding, all that stuff. I dont think that its a good excuse to say you have too many to keep track, because thats part of breeding snakes is taking proper care of them. Good luck getting this one to eat...

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_Elise.m_ (07-29-2009)

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## knott00

Its irresponsible for them to not keep a feeding log. A piece of paper only takes a couple seconds to put a few check marks on. When a snake is sold, the feeding log should be given to the customer with the snake. There is no excuse for a breeder not doing this. 
Its not really possible for you to tell if you have a picky snake yet. From your story, I've gathered that she is still very young and is still scared of humans. This being the case I'm sure she is stressed out from being moved and handled, so I doubt she would want to eat after only 2-3 days.  Wait a full week, then try to feed her the thawed rat pup again.

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_Elise.m_ (07-29-2009)

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## Elise.m

Yeah, it worries me too, and that's why I'm gonna call him and ask again. I just looked him up on Fauna and everyone has posted good reviews about him... I'm just worried I may have gotten a snake at a time where he was too busy to pay attention to it. He did say she's eaten, but didn't go further than that. No shedding records either.

In his defense, they are hatching alot of babies atm. And I believe he only has 3 other people helping him out. So it might be something that just slipped, hopefully when I call him (He opens at 11:00am pst) He'll be able to give me a little more information about this cutie.

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## Ginevive

What ever happened to the rat pup? I sincerely hope that you did not just let it starve to death. Starvation has to be one of the worst ways to die, imo.. It can't be legal and humane to do that. I cannot imagine someone letting a puppy or ktiten starve todeath.. and I don't see how it would be any less cruel to let a rat pup do the same. Gas it.. freezing a mammal is not a humane method of euthanization.

Everyone who feeds live, should either know how to, and be prepared to, feed and care for live prey that is refused.. or be equipped to humanely euthanize the prey animal if the snake refuses. Just my 0.02.

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ballpythonluvr (07-30-2009),_littleindiangirl_ (07-29-2009),Muze (07-29-2009),Patricia (08-01-2009)

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## Elise.m

Unfortunately I had no other option but to freeze it. I didn't have anything to gas it with. Yes, I feel terrible for doing it, and no, I do not need to be criticized over it. This was my first live feeding ever, I wasn't totally prepared, I thought she would be hungry since like I said in one my previous posts, she looks kinds thin. It's a part of life, I had to make due with what I had.

For the record though: My BF and I plan on doing pre-killed in the future from now on.

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## BAD Morphs

And Just an FYI when I told you to freeze it I didn't mean to throw it in alive as others have interpreted! I left the uthanizing part out for you to use at your descretion!!! Alot of ppl choose to do it in different ways so I just left it out on purpose! I hoped you were knowledgable enough to know not to throw a live rat in the freezer. Just figured I would throw that out there!

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## Elise.m

And this is why I left out what happened to the rat pup... Look, I already said I do not need to be critized over this. End of story. I did what I had to do. I don't feel good about it, and neither does my BF. We made a mistake, we learned from it, and we learned what to do in the future. Btw Blong, we didn't freeze it just on your suggestion, so don't take offense.

The morale: I learned my lesson, move on please, nothing to see.

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## _Venom_

Don't worry, I've frozen live pinkies before.

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## BAD Morphs

> And this is why I left out what happened to the rat pup... Look, I already said I do not need to be critized over this. End of story. I did what I had to do. I don't feel good about it, and neither does my BF. We made a mistake, we learned from it, and we learned what to do in the future. Btw Blong, we didn't freeze it just on your suggestion, so don't take offense.
> 
> The morale: I learned my lesson, move on please, nothing to see.


No offense taken! And I was not pointing my last post to you in anyway! I would have done what I had to do myself! It was for the other ppl that assume what I meant! As long as you knew that was all I cared about! So I hope all goes well for you and the lil snakey! LOL Enjoy it they are fun to keep!

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_Elise.m_ (07-29-2009)

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## STEW

Did you at least kill it first? I woulda............ 
Im not going to criticize you either way because I view feeder rats as objects rather than living creatures or I wouldnt be able to kill them..... If your snake does end up eating it once its thawed out then you should just buy frozen feeders, they are cheaper. I never even took into account what Dr. Del posted even though I think it would be pretty hard to get caught up in that legal issue....... Im going to buy a frozen one and see what my snake does with it. It would be easier to have a bulk load in the freezer than having to go to the pet store every week.... Now if I can just get my Chameleon to eat the crickets in a can, talk about a hard animal to get to eat pre killed prey items........

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## Elise.m

> No offense taken! And I was not pointing my last post to you in anyway! I would have done what I had to do myself! It was for the other ppl that assume what I meant! As long as you knew that was all I cared about! So I hope all goes well for you and the lil snakey! LOL Enjoy it they are fun to keep!


Thanks. I feel terrible, but I guess I had to learn in some way. And I know probly lots of people on here think I'm irresponsible for doing what I did, but like I said I had no other resources. From now on, we will definitely be prepared in what I have to do, and hopefully this little snake will get on board with us. And I checked his website, turns out he gave me a weanling when I asked for a pup... I hate being new at things. :Rage:

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## Elise.m

> Did you at least kill it first? I woulda............ 
> Im not going to criticize you either way because I view feeder rats as objects rather than living creatures or I wouldnt be able to kill them..... If your snake does end up eating it once its thawed out then you should just buy frozen feeders, they are cheaper. I never even took into account what Dr. Del posted even though I think it would be pretty hard to get caught up in that legal issue....... Im going to buy a frozen one and see what my snake does with it. It would be easier to have a bulk load in the freezer than having to go to the pet store every week.... Now if I can just get my Chameleon to eat the crickets in a can, talk about a hard animal to get to eat pre killed prey items........


We didn't know the about the head-n-tail thing, unfortunately I turned off my comp by the time someone had replied with that. I'm hoping she'll eat this f/t rat pup in a week, if she does then cool, if she doesn't then I'll be making my own little gas chamber. I really thought the feeding part would be alot easier...

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## ballpythonluvr

I am in no way going to criticize you for what you did.  I am also not saying that I agree with the way you handled the live rat pup.  Just be prepared in the future that if your snake only chooses to eat live that you need to be prepared to keep a live animal.  I'm sure your snake would have eventually eaten the rat pup.  I always have an enclosure and extra food on hand just in case my snake decides to skip a feeding, which he frequently does.  I just keep the rat or mouse alive for his next feeding.  All animals deserve to be treated with repsect, even the live feeders that our snakes eat.

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## mrshawt

> We didn't know the about the head-n-tail thing, unfortunately I turned off my comp by the time someone had replied with that. I'm hoping she'll eat this f/t rat pup in a week, if she does then cool, if she doesn't then I'll be making my own little gas chamber. I really thought the feeding part would be alot easier...


Here are some resources for ya:
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=33850
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=55509

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_Elise.m_ (07-29-2009)

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## Elise.m

The dry ice chamber is exactly what I was planning on doing in the near future. I've read over that forums before and thought it looked easy and humane. I was actually at a store that sold dry ice yesterday before the feeding happened... I should have picked some up just in case. Oh well, hind sight is always 20/20.

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## pavlovk1025

Im just gonna stick with you shouldve left it in there. You never know what your hatchling is going to do once you go to bed and everything has shut down for the night. Now youre gonna have to figure out how to get your little one to eat F/T or P/K. usually best to get a steady live schedule going before you start dealing with refusals at feedings. good luck no matter what.

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## likebull1

you could always buy a boa :Very Happy:

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## abuja

With my uneaten mouse (my snake went into shed), I just threw it outside. Success!

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## mrshawt

> With my uneaten mouse (my snake went into shed), I just threw it outside. Success!


...A live mouse?

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## Elise.m

Just got off the phone with the breeder. He said the snake has only eaten twice, and they do not keep records. She was born early this month. She last ate on Thursday, which I didn't know the last day she ate, so now I'm not worried as to why she didn't eat. Just in case anyone wanted an update  :Smile:

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## cobweb2000

> With my uneaten mouse (my snake went into shed), I just threw it outside. Success!


The mice and rats we feed our snakes are domesticated animals.  They have been bred in captivity for generations to get certain traits, behaviours and colorations.  They are as different from wild rats/mice as our dogs are from wolves.  Please reconsider before turning a domesticated animal outside to fend for itself, it will not have the skills to do so.

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## abuja

> The mice and rats we feed our snakes are domesticated animals.  They have been bred in captivity for generations to get certain traits, behaviours and colorations.  They are as different from wild rats/mice as our dogs are from wolves.  Please reconsider before turning a domesticated animal outside to fend for itself, it will not have the skills to do so.


The mouse's two fates were #1 Death by Snake #2 Death by other outside Predator. It was gonna die anyways. Also, my dad sure as heck was not keeping a mouse in the house overnight!

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## ballpythonluvr

Why would you throw a mouse outside??!!  You should have just held on to it until the next feeding.  You could have at least humanely euthanized it if you didn't want to keep it.  I just don't get why you would throw a defenseless creature outside.  I don't understand people that have snakes and are not willing to take responsibility for the live feeders that do not get eaten.  Why is it so hard to keep a feeder alive until the next feeding day or at least to properly euthanize it?

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cobweb2000 (07-29-2009)

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## Elise.m

> Why would you throw a mouse outside??!!  You should have just held on to it until the next feeding.  You could have at least humanely euthanized it if you didn't want to keep it.  I just don't get why you would throw a defenseless creature outside.  I don't understand people that have snakes and are not willing to take responsibility for the live feeders that do not get eaten.  Why is it so hard to keep a feeder alive until the next feeding day or at least to properly euthanize it?


In my case, I didn't have the resources to keep it or humanly euthanize it. Some people make mistakes. Deal with it, hope they learned their lesson and move on please. You seem to be very disturbed by this thread, I would suggest not reading it anymore.

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_abuja_ (07-29-2009)

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## cobweb2000

> In my case, I didn't have the resources to keep it or humanly euthanize it. Some people make mistakes. Deal with it, hope they learned their lesson and move on please. You seem to be very disturbed by this thread, I would suggest not reading it anymore.


You had a hopefully isolated incident and will be better prepared the next time you need to deal with a live feeder (even better if your snake eats and you don't need to worry about it  :Smile:  ).  I have a feeling Abuja does not see why what he/she did was not the best option.

But I fully agree with Python1024; part of our responsibility of being snake owners are dealing with the feeders in a responsible and humane manner.  

I mentioned this in another post, but I keep pet rats and work with a rat rescue so I am on a lot of forums/groups for people who own mice/rats/rabbits/gerbils--many of these people would have been affected by HR699.  A very large percentage of all individual believe that people only own snakes because they enjoy seeing a small animal get killed.  They are as afraid of snake owners as they are of the snakes themselves, if we continue to act like feeders are inanimate objects that have no right to be treated with a modicum of humanity, do you blame those people for not standing up with us to keep all exotic pets legal?

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ballpythonluvr (07-30-2009),_Lolo76_ (07-29-2009)

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## abuja

> You had a hopefully isolated incident and will be better prepared the next time you need to deal with a live feeder (even better if your snake eats and you don't need to worry about it  ).  I have a feeling Abuja does not see why what he/she did was not the best option.
> 
> But I fully agree with Python1024; part of our responsibility of being snake owners are dealing with the feeders in a responsible and humane manner.  
> 
> I mentioned this in another post, but I keep pet rats and work with a rat rescue so I am on a lot of forums/groups for people who own mice/rats/rabbits/gerbils--many of these people would have been affected by HR699.  A very large percentage of all individual believe that people only own snakes because they enjoy seeing a small animal get killed.  They are as afraid of snake owners as they are of the snakes themselves, if we continue to act like feeders are inanimate objects that have no right to be treated with a modicum of humanity, do you blame those people for not standing up with us to keep all exotic pets legal?


I disagree, because that mouse's life span is about 2 years anyways. I understand where you're coming from, but we don't have dry ice, nor the will to care for it until my snake had shed, so the MOST humane thing to do was actually release him! Yeah, he was probably killed, but he would have been anyways! The venom from another snake or a bite from a wild animal killed it quicker than a ball python's constriction would have.

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## Lolo76

> Everyone who feeds live, should either know how to, and be prepared to, feed and care for live prey that is refused.. or be equipped to humanely euthanize the prey animal if the snake refuses. Just my 0.02.


I agree... I've been stuck with live prey before, which is why I bought 2 critter keepers and researched what they eat. One of the rat pups was so cute, I actually ended up keeping him - then I got him a friend, and that same night my roommate's dog broke the cage open & ate the original pup.  :Sad:  That left us stuck with the other rat, which I ended up giving to a friend (as a pet).

Aside from that one occasion, I just keep them alive until the snake is ready to eat. We had two rejected mice when Delilah was in shed, and kept them in the critter keeper for a few days... rats and mice will eat basically anything, but I usually offer things like cereal, fruit and bread. Rat pups are a different story, however, and I actually had to hand-feed baby formula (with a syringe) to that one little guy. So yes, if you will be feeding live, you should have a back-up plan for the leftovers - it happens more often than you think! As for freezing the rat, you did what you had to, and I won't judge you for it.  :Wink:

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## Lolo76

> If the pup doesn't get it's mother's milk, it will eventually die in a few days. Rat pups cannot survive when they are that young, especially when their eyes are still closed.


I managed to keep that one rat pup alive, but it wasn't easy! I got Similac baby formula and hand-fed him with a syringe, 4-5 times a day until he opened his eyes. Luckily that happened in less than 2 days, and then I moved him onto a mushed cereal/formula mixture. He was sooooo cute...  :Sad:

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## littleindiangirl

> What ever happened to the rat pup? I sincerely hope that you did not just let it starve to death. Starvation has to be one of the worst ways to die, imo.. It can't be legal and humane to do that. I cannot imagine someone letting a puppy or ktiten starve todeath.. and I don't see how it would be any less cruel to let a rat pup do the same. Gas it.. freezing a mammal is not a humane method of euthanization.
> 
> Everyone who feeds live, should either know how to, and be prepared to, feed and care for live prey that is refused.. or be equipped to humanely euthanize the prey animal if the snake refuses. Just my 0.02.


Agree 1000%.

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## Elise.m

I definitely learned my lesson, and will be more prepared. Since learning that our snake normally eats on Thursdays (One of the employees had told me either Tuesday or Wednesday, I can't remember which day) and the fact I tried to feed her on a Tuesday, helps alot. If I had known that in the first place, I wouldn't have even bothered buying a rat pup! I didn't get around to it today (Lazy day), but I will be creating a little holder tank for the critters.

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## STEW

This thread is hilarious......... I love it. How can anyone be so passoinate about a rats life when we go to the store and pick it out to die....... They stink, if I ever had a snake that wouldnt take pre killed and turned down a live offering...... Well, Id feed it to my boa cuz he is a garbage dispenser..... But for reals, something would have to happen cuz it would not be stinking up my place.

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## Muze

> This thread is hilarious......... I love it. How can anyone be so passoinate about a rats life when we go to the store and pick it out to die....... They stink, if I ever had a snake that wouldnt take pre killed and turned down a live offering...... Well, Id feed it to my boa cuz he is a garbage dispenser..... But for reals, something would have to happen cuz it would not be stinking up my place.


And that's just fine.  However, it is a living, breathing creature whose life shoud be respected and should not have to suffer an inhumane death.  If your Boa eats it instead of the Python, great.  That's nature.  Sticking in the freezer to die a painful death is irresponsible.  In this case, the OP was not aware.

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ballpythonluvr (07-30-2009),cobweb2000 (07-30-2009),_Ginevive_ (07-31-2009),_littleindiangirl_ (08-04-2009)

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## cobweb2000

> This thread is hilarious......... I love it. How can anyone be so passoinate about a rats life when we go to the store and pick it out to die....... They stink, if I ever had a snake that wouldnt take pre killed and turned down a live offering...... Well, Id feed it to my boa cuz he is a garbage dispenser..... But for reals, something would have to happen cuz it would not be stinking up my place.


I just wanted to add that given an opportunity to get away from their own feces and urine, rats do not stink.  If you are having an issue with your feeders having a strong odor of waste, either yours or your supplier's husbandry should be evaluated.

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## Kom@tose

I've never seen a bunch of snake keepers so up in arms about the life and/or well-being of a rat. 






OP-you should get a monitor. It'd fix this problem of yours right up.

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## Muze

> I've never seen a bunch of snake keepers so up in arms about the life and/or well-being of a rat. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OP-you should get a monitor. It'd fix this problem of yours right up.


I think you are missing our point.  Whatever the reptile does with its prey is nature.  However, if I decide to rip up a rat into little pieces myself while it was alive, would that be ok with you?

This is part of the reason that reptile keepers have a bad reputation amongst non-reptile keepers.  One of the misconceptions is that we enjoy watching little fuzzy creatures suffer.  I don't care if a keeper feeds live or F/T.  All I expect is that the prey animal not suffer unnecessarily.

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ballpythonluvr (07-30-2009),_littleindiangirl_ (08-04-2009)

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## jglass38

> I've never seen a bunch of snake keepers so up in arms about the life and/or well-being of a rat.


This is a silly post.  Really.  Have a little respect for the animal that gives up it's life so your snake can live and thrive.

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ballpythonluvr (07-30-2009),_littleindiangirl_ (08-04-2009),Muze (07-30-2009)

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## Stewart_Reptiles

> I disagree, because that mouse's life span is about 2 years anyways. I understand where you're coming from, but we don't have dry ice, nor the will to care for it until my snake had shed, *so the MOST humane thing to do was actually release him!* Yeah, he was probably killed, but he would have been anyways! The venom from another snake or a bite from a wild animal killed it quicker than a ball python's constriction would have.


You mean the most irresponsible thing to do was to release him.

Aside from not being humane to a captive animal do you realize that snake owners already have a bad reputation and that what you are doing does nothing more then add to this reputation in a negative way?

Do everyone a favor be prepared next time around, if your snake does not eat the prey you are offering either euthanize the prey humanely, have an enclosure ready or return it to the store.

Learn to be a responsible keeper.

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ballpythonluvr (07-30-2009),_jglass38_ (07-30-2009),_littleindiangirl_ (08-04-2009),_mrshawt_ (07-30-2009),Muze (07-30-2009),rabernet (07-31-2009)

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## STEW

To keep myself from dumping a whole tank a fuel on this fire, I will just let it go.........


Rats do stink though, they poop about every 10 seconds and keeping them away from that is almost entirely impossible........ I could probably build them a little fenced in enclosure in my back yard with slides and swimming pools.... It would be so nice for them prior to death. I bet they would love me for it.

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## Ginevive

Wow. That's all that I can say, in reading this thread. I sincerely hope that, if any non-herp people are reading this.. that you understand, that us snake keepers with scruples do not condone freezing baby mammals to death.. or releasing livestock (which is what feeder rats/mice really are..) out into the wild because we are too lazy and irresponsible to either look after them, humanely euthanize them, or return them to the store from which they came. Enough said; if I go on, I will either be preaching to the choir of other humane feeders, or talking to brick walls.

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_littleindiangirl_ (08-04-2009)

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## abuja

I'm sorry. I'm the most stubborn person and I just got the nerve to say that. I should've researched more or taken it back rather than tossing it outside. I don't want more and more people getting upset with each other because of a fellow herper's mistake.

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## LadyOhh

I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I would like to say this:

You are a keeper of an animal. You are responsible for being compassionate about the lives of the animals. Be it prey or predator, every animal deserves basic rights and respect.

If you don't understand that, you should re-evaluate why you are taking care of animals in the first place. 


We are all learning, all enjoying our animals, sharing information, developing attitudes and feelings towards our animals and each other. But it should all be based on the overall respect of our fellow creatures, human or not. 

Be kind.

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ballpythonluvr (08-01-2009),dr del (08-01-2009),_jglass38_ (08-01-2009),_littleindiangirl_ (08-04-2009),Muze (08-01-2009),Stewart_Reptiles (08-01-2009)

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## Donald M

> This is a silly post.  Really.  Have a little respect for the animal that gives up it's life so your snake can live and thrive.


lol yea u should respect it because if it has an diese it will kill ur snake the only reason ur snake is a live is because someone somewhere is going through alot of trouble to make sure ur snakes food is healthy

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## XIIIPythons

> So are you reccomending to freeze a live rat pup? That's awesome! Well, not really but hey, great advice.
> 
> What you could do is search www.google.com for what rat pups eat-and go from there.


im pretty sure rat pups are still nursing.. so it would take a small nipple and milk

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## GinaTheMachina

> Did you at least kill it first? I woulda............ 
> Im not going to criticize you either way because I view feeder rats as objects rather than living creatures or I wouldnt be able to kill them..... If your snake does end up eating it once its thawed out then you should just buy frozen feeders, they are cheaper. I never even took into account what Dr. Del posted even though I think it would be pretty hard to get caught up in that legal issue....... Im going to buy a frozen one and see what my snake does with it. It would be easier to have a bulk load in the freezer than having to go to the pet store every week.... Now if I can just get my Chameleon to eat the crickets in a can, talk about a hard animal to get to eat pre killed prey items........




I was being nosey and curious.... Have you tried the little vibrating rock that shakes the little bugs around? I heard it works good for stubborn reptiles!

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## XIIIPythons

this sorta relates back to the whole omg dolphins are getting trapped in tuna nets ... /cry ... but those same people dont care about the poor tuna who is being harvested 50,000 at a time .. so some say bash it in the head, others say freeze it, others say flush it down the toilet .. i say just purchase f/t and be done with it .. and now you say " my snake only eats live" well there are vids and walkthroughs on how to convert your snake to f/t if you have patience ..

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## dr del

Um guys?

The thread is over a year old. "08-01-*2009* 06:04 AM " was the last post before the current round.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 


dr del

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## Stubean15

the humane way to kill prey is co2 poisoning.. they just go to sleep.. get some dry ice and put it in a sealed container with the rat but make sure the prey cant come in contact with the dry ice directly

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