# Lizards > General Geckos >  Leopard gecko or hognose snake

## William Snakespeare

Hi everyone, i have a spare cage with a heat mat, thermostat, water dish, hides and feeding dishes. So i am ready to get either or. I was just wondering, a leopard gecko or a hognose. Both are quite small and will fit in the spare cage I have. I already have a dumerils boa and a ball python.

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## Craiga 01453

I can't speak on behalf of a leopard gecko but I can tell you that I absolutely love my hognose and would advocate for them 100 times over. If you can provide proper husbandry for a BP and a dumerils you'll certainly be able to provide a good home for a hognose.

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## William Snakespeare

Hmm cool. I do like the pattern of hognose and they look like mini rattlesnakes drama queens as well

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## artgecko

Hognose can be hard to feed and people can have an allergic reaction if bitten, so just keep that in mind.  My hognose never bit me, but he did go on very long hunger strikes, so much so, that I had to rehome him.  If you decide to get a hognose, I would get a very well-started female juvenile that is eating unscented f/t prey.  A female hognose (as well as a leopard gecko) will need a 20gl long aquarium or large fyi.  A male hognose can be kept in a 10gl.

If you go with a leopard gecko, you will need to provide a humid hide for shedding and supplements (calcium with D3 and a multivitamin) dusted on their food.  Most people feed roaches, crickets, or meal / super worms.

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Craiga 01453 (12-15-2017)

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## Stewart_Reptiles

I can speak as someone who has owned and bred both (still breeding hognose).

You are looking at lizard vs snake which mean higher maintenance vs lower maintenance.

You are looking at two different type of animals with great entertaining personality.

But you are also looking at venomous vs non venomous, while hognose venom delivery system is poor (they are rear fanged)  and while their venom is weak, they are still considered moldy venomous animals with reactions varying from none to swelling up to your elbows, something to take into consideration if you already have bad reactions to bee stings for example or if you have young children.

Now the good news is that they are not prone to bite.

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Craiga 01453 (12-15-2017)

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## William Snakespeare

Both seem to have a good personality which I like. Would a leopard gecko be more expensive to maintain and keep? 

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## William Snakespeare

Oh and what are your guys favourite morphs?

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## BallPythonWannaBe

> Oh and what are your guys favourite morphs?
> 
> Sent from my LG-H990 using Tapatalk


For the snake or gecko?
Albino and Albino Condas for the Hognose and Carrot Tail and Bandit Leopard geckos

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## Craiga 01453

> Oh and what are your guys favourite morphs?
> 
> Sent from my LG-H990 using Tapatalk


I personally love normals, condas and axanthics for hognose. As for leos,  I don't know enough to weigh in.

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## Stewart_Reptiles

> Oh and what are your guys favourite morphs?
> 
> Sent from my LG-H990 using Tapatalk


Leopard Geckos: Albino Tangerine & Super Snow

Hognose: Albino Conda & Super Conda and Anery Conda and Anery Super Conda

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## William Snakespeare

Awesome, would these products be good for the geckos?

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## William Snakespeare

Oh and I have a spare cage.
 My spare cage is 
90cm long 
35cm wide 
40cm high
How may leos can I fit into this cage. 
I seriously don't want too many maybe like 1 or 2 to start with as I am new to geckos

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## Stewart_Reptiles

Because they are in captivity you want the one that has vitamin D3 https://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-Calci...alcium+with+d3


You also have to make sure that the insect you will feed are gutloaded prior to feeding. Mealworms are usually best as you can just have a dish in at all time, they are also easy to breed and odorless compare to crickets and you do not have to worry about having to remove what is not eaten immediately like you do with crickets.

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## Stewart_Reptiles

> Oh and I have a spare cage.
>  My spare cage is 
> 90cm long 
> 35cm wide 
> 40cm high
> How may leos can I fit into this cage. 
> I seriously don't want too many maybe like 1 or 2 to start with as I am new to geckos
> 
> Sent from my LG-H990 using Tapatalk


Keep in mind that you cannot keep 2 males together and cannot keep a male and female together unless they are adult of proper breeding weight and size, otherwise they will breed and you female is highly likely to be egg bond.

Do your research there are tons of great care sheet out there start here https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...is-macularius)

You want at least 40 cm x 58 cm for 2  (obviously height is irrelevant) so with your size a trio would work again if you follow the above and if you do 1.2 remember that you will have to give the females a break and separate them from the male.

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## William Snakespeare

> Keep in mind that you cannot keep 2 males together and cannot keep a male and female together unless they are adult of proper breeding weight and size, otherwise they will breed and you female is highly likely to be egg bond.
> 
> Do your research there are tons of great care sheet out there start here https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...is-macularius)
> 
> You want at least 40 cm x 58 cm for 2  (obviously height is irrelevant) so with your size a trio would work again if you follow the above and if you do 1.2 remember that you will have to give the females a break and separate them from the male.


Yes, I plan to get 2 females. One juvie and an adult, is it alright or is there a size difference?

So I should get them all seperate hides right? They both come from the same owner. With feeding, should I feed seperately?

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## William Snakespeare

> Because they are in captivity you want the one that has vitamin D3 https://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-Calci...alcium+with+d3
> 
> 
> You also have to make sure that the insect you will feed are gutloaded prior to feeding. Mealworms are usually best as you can just have a dish in at all time, they are also easy to breed and odorless compare to crickets and you do not have to worry about having to remove what is not eaten immediately like you do with crickets.


What about Dubia roaches and super worms? I heard that crickets arent the best because they lack in protein.

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## Stewart_Reptiles

> Yes, I plan to get 2 females. One juvie and an adult, is it alright or is there a size difference?
> 
> So I should get them all seperate hides right? They both come from the same owner. With feeding, should I feed seperately?
> 
> Sent from my LG-H990 using Tapatalk


It will depends on the size difference simply because like most animals if the size difference is to big one animal will bully the other and can cause injuries, so you want a small size difference and if there is no difference at all it's even better. I am old school and with it comes to communal housing of geckos, I prefer to do it when both animal have reached their adult size.

You want to have food available for them rather than hand feed or removing them from their enclosure to feed and let them eat on their term, if you move the they might not eat.




> What about Dubia roaches and super worms? I heard that crickets arent the best because they lack in protein.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H990 using Tapatalk


Dubias are great also easy to breed and odorless and are pack in protein (a lot of people just hate the idea of them), so if you can do that setting up a colony is very easy and one female will produce 30 dubias each  months and for months to come. Superworms should be avoided you can offer as a treat however they are a lot harder to digest and this is the food that bites back.

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## William Snakespeare

> It will depends on the size difference simply because like most animals if the size difference is to big one animal will bully the other and can cause injuries, so you want a small size difference and if there is no difference at all it's even better. I am old school and with it comes to communal housing of geckos, I prefer to do it when both animal have reached their adult size.
> 
> You want to have food available for them rather than hand feed or removing them from their enclosure to feed and let them eat on their term, if you move the they might not eat.
> 
> Dubias are great also easy to breed and odorless and are pack in protein (a lot of people just hate the idea of them), so if you can do that setting up a colony is very easy and one female will produce 30 dubias each  months and for months to come. Superworms should be avoided you can offer as a treat however they are a lot harder to digest and this is the food that bites back.


Ok thanks for the tip about superworms. So all I would be feeding would be dubia roaches and maybe an occasional waxworm?

I will be setting up a dubia roach colony to keep a steady supply of food for my geckos.



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## Stewart_Reptiles

Wax worms are good as a treat not as a staple diet since they have a high fat content.

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## William Snakespeare

Yip, do leos require UVB or any light in their cage?

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## artgecko

No UVB, the calcium with D3 is enough for them.

For the dubia, you want to start your colony with as many adults (ratio of 1:3-6 male:female) and you also want many nymphs of different sizes.  

It takes months for a colony to establish, so you will need to order enough extra feeders to provide for your geckos while you wait for your colony to take off. I let my colony grow for ~3-4 months before I fed off it.  Once the colony is producing, I'd suggest keeping a separate smaller bin to keep your dubia to be fed off.  This will prevent higher stress on the main colony and help them breed more quickly.  

You will need a dark bin with a lot of ventilation (cut out the whole top and cover with mesh).  Vertically placed cardboard egg flats for them to live on, and a dish for water crystals (or veggies) and a dish for dry food (I use organic chicken layer crumbles).  Do not allow fresh food to sit for more than 2 days...Try to provide pieces small enough that they can finish them before you have to remove them.  Also, avoid putting the dry food close to the source of water (water crystals or veggies) you don't want to risk mold and mold will kill the colony quickly. Feeding oranges will help them reproduce faster, but oranges and citrus are not good fruits to gutload with.  If you have a smaller bin to keep the feeder dubia in, you can feed them better gutloading foods and give your main colony different items.  For my gutloading feeding bin, I feed organic shredded veggies and fruits.  I avoid anything that is not good to gutload with.  I also give them a dry premium gutloading diet that is too expensive to feed the main colony.

Also, you will need a heat source for your dubia colony bin.  I use a heat pad taped to the side that is plugged into a thermostat.  I keep mine set at 90f, which does a good job.  Dubia will not reproduce or will reproduce very slowly if not given extra heat. I think anything below 80f will cause them to cease reproducing.

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## William Snakespeare

> No UVB, the calcium with D3 is enough for them.
> 
> For the dubia, you want to start your colony with as many adults (ratio of 1:3-6 male:female) and you also want many nymphs of different sizes.  
> 
> It takes months for a colony to establish, so you will need to order enough extra feeders to provide for your geckos while you wait for your colony to take off. I let my colony grow for ~3-4 months before I fed off it.  Once the colony is producing, I'd suggest keeping a separate smaller bin to keep your dubia to be fed off.  This will prevent higher stress on the main colony and help them breed more quickly.  
> 
> You will need a dark bin with a lot of ventilation (cut out the whole top and cover with mesh).  Vertically placed cardboard egg flats for them to live on, and a dish for water crystals (or veggies) and a dish for dry food (I use organic chicken layer crumbles).  Do not allow fresh food to sit for more than 2 days...Try to provide pieces small enough that they can finish them before you have to remove them.  Also, avoid putting the dry food close to the source of water (water crystals or veggies) you don't want to risk mold and mold will kill the colony quickly. Feeding oranges will help them reproduce faster, but oranges and citrus are not good fruits to gutload with.  If you have a smaller bin to keep the feeder dubia in, you can feed them better gutloading foods and give your main colony different items.  For my gutloading feeding bin, I feed organic shredded veggies and fruits.  I avoid anything that is not good to gutload with.  I also give them a dry premium gutloading diet that is too expensive to feed the main colony.
> 
> Also, you will need a heat source for your dubia colony bin.  I use a heat pad taped to the side that is plugged into a thermostat.  I keep mine set at 90f, which does a good job.  Dubia will not reproduce or will reproduce very slowly if not given extra heat. I think anything below 80f will cause them to cease reproducing.


Awesome tips to starting a dubia colony. But I might not start one because I will only have 1 or 2 geckos.

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## William Snakespeare

I also bought this calcium for dusting the insects but I am not sure if it constains D3. This is tempory and I will find a product that contains D3.

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## artgecko

William-  If you don't want the hassle of a colony, then you may want to stick to mainly feeding mealworms.  Dubia are expensive to buy, which is why most people just start a colony.  

The packaging should say if the calcium has D3 added to it.  If it doesn't say that, then it probably does not have it in it.

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## William Snakespeare

> William-  If you don't want the hassle of a colony, then you may want to stick to mainly feeding mealworms.  Dubia are expensive to buy, which is why most people just start a colony.  
> 
> The packaging should say if the calcium has D3 added to it.  If it doesn't say that, then it probably does not have it in it.


Ok thanks for the help. So I'll stick with mealworms, superworms and wax worms as an occassional treat

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## William Snakespeare

Hi everyone, tomorow I am getting my leopard gecko. I am sooo Stoked!!!

He is a baby super snow leo.

He looks a bit thin to me. Or am I just imagining things. He is +- 6weeks old

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## Stewart_Reptiles

> Hi everyone, tomorow I am getting my leopard gecko. I am sooo Stoked!!!
> 
> He is a baby super snow leo.
> 
> He looks a bit thin to me. Or am I just imagining things. He is +- 6weeks old
> 
> Sent from my LG-H990 using Tapatalk


I would not get that, that would fall under rescue in my book, it's thin and the cage is just NASTY

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_BallPythonWannaBe_ (12-19-2017),_tttaylorrr_ (12-19-2017)

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## William Snakespeare

> I would not get that, that would fall under rescue in my book, it's thin and the cage is just NASTY


We will see first . I know the cage looks nasty.

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## William Snakespeare

The breeder seems to know what he's talking about.

I would be very concerned if the leo looked like this

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## Stewart_Reptiles

> The breeder seems to know what he's talking about.
> 
> I would be very concerned if the leo looked like this
> 
> Sent from my LG-H990 using Tapatalk


Apparently does not know when a cage is dirty though, but hey if you want to spend your money with someone that keep them in dirty cage like that why not, your call I know I wouldn't.

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## tttaylorrr

> The breeder seems to know what he's talking about.
> 
> I would be very concerned if the leo looked like this


just because the animal isn't in as bad of condition as it could be doesn't mean it isn't in bad condition. IDK much about leopard geckos, but that animal looks far too skinny to be in good care and i would never pay money for an animal that looks like the one you posted.

IMO you're taking a risk on that animal.

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## savora

Oh my, that poor thing  :Sad: 

I'd try to get a healthier leopard gecko, if you could. Or maybe ask for more pictures before you buy--maybe the photo is just at a bad angle or a bad time; but that leopard gecko doesn't seem the healthiest to me.

There are lots of breeders out there with healthy adults, if that's what you're looking for. If you're not worried about the morph, only the money, I can spot some very cheap ones on MorphMarket.com

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## William Snakespeare

Eish, I really thought he looked relatively healthy but I guess not. 

I have already tried to rehabilitate my one rescue ball python. I really don't want to go through the stress of having to rehabilitate another one.

I really wanted a super snow so I think I would have been an impulse buy. But I am so glad I could reach out to you guys. You have been an awesome help.

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## William Snakespeare

> Oh my, that poor thing 
> 
> I'd try to get a healthier leopard gecko, if you could. Or maybe ask for more pictures before you buy--maybe the photo is just at a bad angle or a bad time; but that leopard gecko doesn't seem the healthiest to me.
> 
> There are lots of breeders out there with healthy adults, if that's what you're looking for. If you're not worried about the morph, only the money, I can spot some very cheap ones on MorphMarket.com


Thanks but I am based in South Africa and Morphmarket doesnt sell any leos

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## William Snakespeare

Are we talking about the same leopard gecko? The super snow in this pic?

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## tttaylorrr

> Eish, I really thought he looked relatively healthy but I guess not. 
> 
> I have already tried to rehabilitate my one rescue ball python. I really don't want to go through the stress of having to rehabilitate another one.
> 
> I really wanted a super snow so I think I would have been an impulse buy. But I am so glad I could reach out to you guys. You have been an awesome help.


it's not so much the animal looks really bad, but a skinny animal with a very obviously filthy home (which the person taking the photo didn't seem to care about) raises some red flags in my head. i don't want you to spend money on an animal that could have existing health problems they might not ever get over, so you'd pay money for a sick animal that could potentially die.

keep your eyes out for another, as i can guarantee there will be another one, that is plump and in a cleaner home.  :Smile:  if i'm spending my hard-earned money, i want nothing but the best!

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Stewart_Reptiles (12-19-2017)

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## William Snakespeare

> it's not so much the animal looks really bad, but a skinny animal with a very obviously filthy home (which the person taking the photo didn't seem to care about) raises some red flags in my head. i don't want you to spend money on an animal that could have existing health problems they might not ever get over, so you'd pay money for a sick animal that could potentially die.
> 
> keep your eyes out for another, as i can guarantee there will be another one, that is plump and in a cleaner home.  if i'm spending my hard-earned money, i want nothing but the best!


Thanks for the quick reply

You're right, I am better off with a more healthy and chubby gecko with little to no problems compared to a gecko that is malnourished, skinny etc

These geckos from another breeder are much be better

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## Stewart_Reptiles

> Thanks for the quick reply
> 
> You're right, I am better off with a more healthy and chubby gecko with little to no problems compared to a gecko that is malnourished, skinny etc
> 
> These geckos from another breeder are much be better


Yes you are and there is a huge difference between those ones and the other, when looking at a leopard you also want to look at the fat in their tail, look at the other picture again, and again if a "breeder" think it's ok and normal to sell animals by taking pictures in filth think again what kind of "breeder you are dealing with.

A breeder should sound but also look professional and part of it is how he keep his animals and are he is showing/selling them, do we all have dirty cages? Yes, but breeders are on the top of it and spend a lot of time cleaning and they would never send pictures like that other one.

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## tttaylorrr

> Thanks for the quick reply
> 
> You're right, I am better off with a more healthy and chubby gecko with little to no problems compared to a gecko that is malnourished, skinny etc
> 
> These geckos from another breeder are much be better


i'm glad we were able to help you understand our concern. i promise you'll be much better off passing on that animal. you would be miserable if you took that baby home only for it to not eat or become sick right away.

have some patience and keep your eyes open for more Leopard morphs you like. having a healthy animal is worth all the time, patience and money in the world.  :Smile:

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## tttaylorrr

> when looking at a leopard you also want to look at the fat in their tail, look at the other picture again


WOW!!! i just compared the photos: i never knew to look at their tails, and that poor baby's tail is almost nothing!!!

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## William Snakespeare

> Yes you are and there is a huge difference between those ones and the other, when looking at a leopard you also want to look at the fat in their tail, look at the other picture again, and again if a "breeder" think it's ok and normal to sell animals by taking pictures in filth think again what kind of "breeder you are dealing with.
> 
> A breeder should sound but also look professional and part of it is how he keep his animals and are he is showing/selling them, do we all have dirty cages? Yes, but breeders are on the top of it and spend a lot of time cleaning and they would never send pictures like that other one.


Yip, I am pretty sure I was blinded by the fact that it was a super snow and relatively cheap. So in future I will be more patient and seek out that PERFECT animal.


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## William Snakespeare

> WOW!!! i just compared the photos: i never knew to look at their tails, and that poor baby's tail is almost nothing!!!


I knew that the tails stored fat and that means that theyre healthy but I couldnt see if the baby's tail was really healthy or not. But I'll ask the "breeder" to send some more pics. Man now I really dislike breeders that just mistreat and just breed their animals for profit.

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## William Snakespeare

Hi everyone, guess what

I got a leopard gecko! I am still deciding on a name. He is a white and yellow male leopard gecko and living alone. He has a very nice temperament amd I love his pattern.

I have bought superworms and mealworms for him and gut loading them with carrots and sweet potato.

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## Zincubus

> Hi everyone, i have a spare cage with a heat mat, thermostat, water dish, hides and feeding dishes. So i am ready to get either or. I was just wondering, a leopard gecko or a hognose. Both are quite small and will fit in the spare cage I have. I already have a dumerils boa and a ball python.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H990 using Tapatalk


Both are cute as hell but be aware that the Hognose is rear fanged and mildly venomous ..


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## William Snakespeare

> Both are cute as hell but be aware that the Hognose is rear fanged and mildly venomous ..
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Yeah, I need to watch out for that

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