# Ball Pythons > BP Breeding >  King of Dinkers update...

## Dave Green

A little rain in the desert go him going  :Smile:

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## rlditmars

Really excited to see what you produce. Best of luck.

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## Mr.Spence

That's awesome. Congrats.

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## bcr229

Fingers crossed he proves out for you!

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## Sirensong26

He's gorgeous!!!! I hope he proves out for you....What produced him?

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## BumbleB

Awesome man can't wait to see what comes of this

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## Eric Alan

Hopefully he'll stay locked over night. What a great way to start the year that would be!

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## Crazygecko

Wow how time flies. I remember when this guy hatched. He sure stayed amazing looking.

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_AlexisFitzy_ (12-31-2014)

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## Dave Green

Thanks everyone!




> He's gorgeous!!!! I hope he proves out for you....What produced him?


Thanks!  He was a surprise from a pastel special x super mojave breeding.  All I wanted were Crystals lol.

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_meowmeowkazoo_ (09-26-2015),_se7en_ (08-29-2015),_Sirensong26_ (01-02-2015)

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## CD CONSTRICTORS

Dave-

Not looking like he missed too many meals  :Good Job:

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## Dave Green

> Dave-
> 
> Not looking like he missed too many meals


He's a beast.  He's never missed a meal.

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## Slowcountry Balls

Looking great. Hope he lets you in on his secret. What did his parents do for you this season?

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## Dave Green

> Looking great. Hope he lets you in on his secret. What did his parents do for you this season?


Thanks.  The parents bred last year but she didn't produce.  Hopefully, I'll have a few clutches this year and have some answers.

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_Albert Clark_ (03-26-2015),_Slowcountry Balls_ (01-01-2015)

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## ARBallMorphs

very interesting,  keep us up-dated please  :Smile:

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_Dave Green_ (01-03-2015)

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## AlexisFitzy

I am so excited for you Dave  :Smile:  really hope he proves out, I'd love to have one of these beauties in my collection. Such a beautiful snake. That pattern is just out of this world.

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_BPSnakeLady_ (01-01-2015),_Dave Green_ (01-03-2015)

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## Sammiebob

Nice new years resolution! In looking forward to the clutch results!

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_AlexisFitzy_ (01-01-2015),_Dave Green_ (01-03-2015)

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## Spiritserpents

I am still *really* interested to see the gene when not coupled to mojave. Will it be subtle, or something glaringly obvious?

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_Dave Green_ (01-03-2015)

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## kylephillips87

I live in New Mexico. We had snow storms the last few days and boy I tell you those storms work good haha I had some good locks with my  yellow belly and lesser  hope we get some good ones this year. .. Good luck guy!!!

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## Marrissa

He still looks awesome! Really hoping he throws something cool or his parents do (both would be awesome). Excited to see you're in AZ. I'll be moving me and my whole zoo to Phoenix towards the end of the year.

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## salt

His pattern reminds me of a granite burm. I really hope it proves genetic for you! I love the look of granite burmese pythons but would never be able to own one because of their size.

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## Dave Green

He's still going strong...

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_AbsoluteApril_ (09-28-2015),_AlexisFitzy_ (02-12-2015),_Alicia_ (02-12-2015),Ballpythonguy92 (12-18-2016),_CD CONSTRICTORS_ (02-12-2015),_CLSpider_ (02-26-2015)

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## Mr.Spence

That's awesome, congrats.

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_Dave Green_ (02-12-2015)

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## Crazygecko

Whats the Female?
And congrats.

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## Dave Green

> Whats the Female?
> And congrats.


Thanks!  She's a Phantom.

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_Crazygecko_ (02-12-2015)

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## Gerardo

How many females did you put him with?

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## Dave Green

> How many females did you put him with?


He's bred with a few at this point.  I have a nice group of females set aside for him.

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## gaiaeagle

I can't wait to see if the pattering proves out to be something. I keep thinking that it would be neat with a variety of different morphs.

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## thedavegraham

That's the coolest pattern I've seen yet. Hope ya get good results  :Smile:

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## KING JAMES

I cant wait to see what you get, its rare that I am truly excited to see the results of someone elses clutch. Out of curiosity is it possible that the pastel special had mojave in it?

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## Dave Green

> I cant wait to see what you get, its rare that I am truly excited to see the results of someone elses clutch. Out of curiosity is it possible that the pastel special had mojave in it?


Thanks!  If the pastel special had mojave in it he would be a pastel crystal.

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_KING JAMES_ (02-13-2015)

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## KING JAMES

Wow shows how out of the loop I am lol, did not even realize special and mojave made a crystal.

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## Rock51

One of the best ball pythons I've ever seen.  Hope it proves out

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_Dave Green_ (03-26-2015)

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## pbyeerts

Gorgeous!  Both of them!

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## Sirensong26

Have any of the King's concubines shown evidence of being gravid?

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## fLako0aGuiiLaR

Thats awsome added to my wishlist!!

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## Dave Green

> Have any of the King's concubines shown evidence of being gravid?


I see some positive signs from a couple females he's bred with.  I should have some answers this season  :Smile:

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_AlexisFitzy_ (03-27-2015),*bcr229* (03-26-2015),_Sirensong26_ (03-27-2015)

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## Albert Clark

> I see some positive signs from a couple females he's bred with.  I should have some answers this season


Did you pair him with any pied females? Are pieds in the plans for him?

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## Dave Green

> Did you pair him with any pied females? Are pieds in the plans for him?


Not yet but I have a lot of plans for him...

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## Bluebonnet Herp

I will say one thing, he at least has to have the pastel gene...  :Razz: 
But I can't wait to see what could be made of isolating that dinker gene! I can't get enough of this guy, and that says a lot coming from someone who usually doesn't get that excited over morphs.  :Good Job:

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## Sirensong26

> Not yet but I have a lot of plans for him...



Have you tried repairing his sire and dam to see if you get another like him?

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## Dave Green

> Have you tried repairing his sire and dam to see if you get another like him?


I bred the parents again last year but she didn't produce.

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_Sirensong26_ (03-27-2015)

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## adizziedoll

Wow that guy is AHH-mazing!!

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## Dave Green

Planning ahead...

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## Rickys_Reptiles

> Planning ahead...


Ok - now that is hot!  :Bowdown:  :Bowdown:

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_AlexisFitzy_ (04-22-2015),_Dave Green_ (04-22-2015),PinkPixie (06-28-2015),_Sirensong26_ (04-22-2015)

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## Sirensong26

> Ok - now that is hot!



I agree 100%. Definitely some awesome forethought on your part Dave. He would look AMAZING as a pied.

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_AlexisFitzy_ (04-22-2015),_Dave Green_ (04-22-2015)

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## Albert Clark

> I agree 100%. Definitely some awesome forethought on your part Dave. He would look AMAZING as a pied.


That's what I said back in February! Glad to see you went ahead with the pied pairing.  :Good Job:

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## darkranger69

yeah specially because you may isolate the gene with het. pied.  recessive girls are the top choice

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## tacticalveterinarian

Incredible Dave! I'm really looking forward to the day you prove the genetics out and all the amazing future combos!

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_Dave Green_ (04-23-2015)

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## che

Shew! That boy is amazing!!  

Keep us posted! Hoping for lots of eggs and answers.

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_Dave Green_ (04-24-2015)

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## AllieKin

Wow, that really is the king of dinkers. Really awesome!! Can't wait to see his babies!

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## Daigga

So what are you thinking, recessive gene or some new unidentified combination? Couldn't be a dom or codom, could it? Either way, I would love to get my hands on some of those babies.

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## Slowcountry Balls

> Planning ahead...


Awesome. Let me guess, you'll be posting a picture of him with a female Clown next?

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## Dave Green

> So what are you thinking, recessive gene or some new unidentified combination? Couldn't be a dom or codom, could it? Either way, I would love to get my hands on some of those babies.


Hard to say, I feel it's recessive but we won't know until I start getting babies.  I don't think it's an unidentified combo as there weren't that many genes involved in the breeding that produced him.  It could be a spontaneous dominant gene, I know it's a long shot but I think any scenario is.

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## Dave Green

> Awesome. Let me guess, you'll be posting a picture of him with a female Clown next?


That won't happen.  I'm the one breeder that doesn't work with clown stuff anymore.

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## fLako0aGuiiLaR

> That won't happen.  I'm the one breeder that doesn't work with clown stuff anymore.


Why???😧

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## Joe balls

Looks like he has blood Python or some short tail that gives those crazy marks in hybrids

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## Dave Green

> Looks like he has blood Python or some short tail that gives those crazy marks in hybrids


Not a hybrid at all.  Check out the other photos I posted here or on Facebook, he's obviously 100% ball python.  I know both the breeders that I got the parents from, no history of hybrids at all.

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embrit345 (05-03-2016)

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## Joe balls

I wasnt meaning that must be the case here.sorry  Have you seen hybrid patters like that? I don't recall the mix but I started looking at hybrids latley and the patteren and fat short body just looks simmalar in some of those. I like it very much. :Smile: 



> Not a hybrid at all.  Check out the other photos I posted here or on Facebook, he's obviously 100% ball python.  I know both the breeders that I got the parents from, no history of hybrids at all.

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## Dave Green

> I wasnt meaning that must be the case here.sorry  Have you seen hybrid patters like that? I don't recall the mix but I started looking at hybrids latley and the patteren and fat short body just looks simmalar in some of those. I like it very much.


No worries, it's all part of the deal.  The reactions and comments have been overwhelmingly positive so far.  I've seen hybrids but none that look like him.  Steve Roussis works with blood/ball crosses and they look very different.  I've also seen photos of angolan/ball hybrids and none look similar.

You may be thinking of the carpet/green tree python crosses as some of those have pretty wacky patterns.

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## Joe balls

Yes the blood mix is the one I'm looking to get I belive they dub it the ultimate ball or mega ball, something silly. maybe be petteren I came across is one of yours mislabeled on someone's redit or Pinterest when I look at Google images it pulls from all over and I find mislabeled snakes all the time.

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## Mr Oni

Jeepers creepers He's getting big. I love it

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## Lizardlicks

Any eggs on the ground yet?

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## rlditmars

> any eggs on the ground yet?


x2

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## Dave Green

Not yet but I've had two ovulations so things are moving along.

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_AlexisFitzy_ (06-26-2015),_BumbleB_ (05-30-2015),_CD CONSTRICTORS_ (06-01-2015),MarkS (05-30-2015),_rlditmars_ (05-29-2015)

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## John1982

Exciting stuff!

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## gameonpython

Wow, he's absolutely amazing!! 


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## Artemisace

Any update with this guy? 

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## Dave Green

I currently have four gravid females and the first two clutches should drop any day now  :Smile:

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_AlexisFitzy_ (06-26-2015),_ARBallMorphs_ (06-29-2015),_Artemisace_ (06-26-2015),*bcr229* (06-27-2015),_Eric Alan_ (06-26-2015),_Fidget_ (06-27-2015),_Lizardlicks_ (06-26-2015)

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## Artemisace

> I currently have four gravid females and the first two clutches should drop any day now


That's awesome  really hope he proves out for you.

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_Dave Green_ (06-26-2015)

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## Lizardlicks

Oh man, so exciting!

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## ARBallMorphs

I can't wait to see the hatchlings haha

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## Dave Green

The first clutch is in the incubator!  King of Dinkers x Pastel Calico...

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_AlexisFitzy_ (06-29-2015),_Alicia_ (06-28-2015),_ARBallMorphs_ (06-28-2015),_Artemisace_ (06-28-2015),*bcr229* (06-28-2015),_Bluebonnet Herp_ (08-15-2015),_BumbleB_ (06-28-2015),dylanjwicklund (06-28-2015),_Fraido_ (05-03-2016),_Gerardo_ (06-28-2015),goddessbaby (06-28-2015),_Lizardlicks_ (06-29-2015),_rlditmars_ (06-28-2015),_Sirensong26_ (06-29-2015),_tacticalveterinarian_ (06-30-2015)

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## ARBallMorphs

That's a good looking girl he was bred too, thanks for the up date!

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_Dave Green_ (06-29-2015)

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## goddessbaby

> The first clutch is in the incubator!  King of Dinkers x Pastel Calico...


Yes! I've been following this thread since i joined the forum! so exciting.

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_Dave Green_ (06-29-2015)

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## ARBallMorphs

> Yes! I've been following this thread since i joined the forum! so exciting.


this,

only have I started to follow it since I first saw it  :Smile:

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_Dave Green_ (06-29-2015)

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## tacticalveterinarian

Congrats Dave! I can't wait for the results and hopefully proving the genetics! What other clutches/pairings are you expecting?

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_Dave Green_ (07-01-2015)

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## Dave Green

> Congrats Dave! I can't wait for the results and hopefully proving the genetics! What other clutches/pairings are you expecting?


Thanks!!  I have eggs from the Pastel Calico and a Phantom at this point.  I should have a couple other clutches, one from a Cinnamon Pied and one from the original Super Mojave.

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_ARBallMorphs_ (07-04-2015),_tacticalveterinarian_ (07-03-2015)

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## ARBallMorphs

Oh that clutch with the original Super Mojave should be really exciting!

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_AlexisFitzy_ (07-02-2015),_BumbleB_ (07-02-2015),_Dave Green_ (07-02-2015),_Solarsoldier001_ (07-01-2015)

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## Jcash34

Thanks for the updates Dave, I can't wait to see the results. That is an amazing dinker.

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## tacticalveterinarian

> Thanks!!  I have eggs from the Pastel Calico and a Phantom at this point.  I should have a couple other clutches, one from a Cinnamon Pied and one from the original Super Mojave.


Sounds like exciting! Have you gotten any more eggs from the original parents?

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## CaGirl5

Are we gettin close? I'm gettin excited!

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_Dave Green_ (08-14-2015)

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## Dave Green

> Are we gettin close? I'm gettin excited!


Yes, one clutch is on day 48 and another is on day 46  :Smile:

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_Alicia_ (08-14-2015),_CaGirl5_ (08-14-2015),dylanjwicklund (08-14-2015),Jcash34 (08-15-2015)

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## dylanjwicklund

Yay can't wait to see what hatches out hope he proves genetic 

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_Dave Green_ (08-14-2015)

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## CaGirl5

Yes! It's almost time! Can't wait to see babies!


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_Dave Green_ (08-14-2015)

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## Artemisace

Can't wait to see the babies  :Very Happy:  really hope he proves out and it's dom or co-dom

snake room

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_Dave Green_ (08-14-2015)

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## Fraido

Ou, I'm just seeing this this thread now, I don't spend enough time on here! 
Very handsome man he is, when should there be hatchlings?(:

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_Dave Green_ (08-15-2015)

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## Solarsoldier001

I can't handle this suspense 


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_Dave Green_ (08-15-2015)

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## ARBallMorphs

Awesome! I'll be waiting for the photo's

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_Dave Green_ (08-15-2015)

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## bcr229

It's a good thing I don't bite my nails or I wouldn't have any fingers left.

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_Bluebonnet Herp_ (08-15-2015),_Dave Green_ (08-15-2015),SamO (08-14-2015)

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## hockeygirl28

Any indication via candling?

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## Jcash34

> Yay can't wait to see what hatches out hope he proves genetic 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk


Dave hopes so too lol.

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## Slowcountry Balls

Is the wait killing you? Or are you used to it now?

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## adizziedoll

You never get used to the waiting!!

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## XcelExotics

Gotta follow this thread

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## piedpipper

If you have a YouTube channel you should definitely do a video of the cutting and post the link on here!

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_Fraido_ (08-19-2015),HospiceNHeartsRN (08-19-2015),_Solarsoldier001_ (08-18-2015)

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## CaGirl5

Gettin real close now! 


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## MidSouthMorphs

Looking forward to seeing what comes out Dave, I am keeping my fingers crossed for you.  I may be as excited as you are!

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## Izzys Keeper

These things are out already. I bet he's just waiting till they shed. 

Am I right?????? 

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_Artemisace_ (08-20-2015),HospiceNHeartsRN (08-20-2015),_Sirensong26_ (08-21-2015)

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## HospiceNHeartsRN

The suspense is killing us!!!

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## Dave Green

It's only day 54 folks.  I haven't cut eggs in years but these clutches are testing my patience...

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dylanjwicklund (08-20-2015),_tacticalveterinarian_ (08-23-2015),_Viol8r_ (08-20-2015)

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## LightningPython

Ohhhhh!!!!! Exciting!! I can't wait to see what popps out of those eggs! I hope your guy proves out-- he is a stunning animal!
I want one! XD

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## dylanjwicklund

> It's only day 54 folks.  I haven't cut eggs in years but these clutches are testing my patience...


How are the eggs lookin?

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## LightningPython

Ohhhhh!!!!! Exciting!! I can't wait to see what popps out of those eggs! I hope your guy proves out-- he is a stunning animal!
I want one! XD

If he does prove out, do you have an idea of what the morph would be called?

Edit
Damn, it made a double post. Sorry about that xD

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## Emilio

I would have cut lol can't wait to see the results Man.


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## M&NSnakeDen

I'm so stoked to see these hatchlings

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## Solarsoldier001

I'm with Emilio. I would have a hard time waiting now lol. Just a small little cut just to see


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## darkranger69

same for me , day 55 i cut for sure !!!! so exciting about your project

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## gaiaeagle

Any updates? should be close now. I've been curious about this dude since he was hatched out. If it does prove to be genetic...so on my wish list.

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## Dave Green

Two clutches are hatching (11 eggs) and unless I had horrible odds it's not dominant.  I would have loved to hatch a few, but I've thought this was a recessive gene from the beginning so hopefully I'm hatching a bunch of Hets...2.6 so far out of the egg.

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## Artemisace

Recessive is better than nothing, can't wait to see pics of the babies 

snake room

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## tacticalveterinarian

Post some updates on the babies when they hatch! It would be interesting to see if any of them have "markers" or abberant patterns (assuming they are heterozygous and this is genetic).

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## piedpipper

That makes more sense. For a gene to just pop out randomly from two parents unlike it makes you think it would be recessive. However if that is the case wouldn't you try breeding him back to the mother? Or is that one of the expected clutches?

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## T&C Exotics

> That makes more sense. For a gene to just pop out randomly from two parents unlike it makes you think it would be recessive. However if that is the case wouldn't you try breeding him back to the mother? Or is that one of the expected clutches?


Actually any type of genetic passing would make perfect sense. How do you think any base morph happened? A pastel was just born one day with none before it. Same with any other morph out there. It is a random flaw in the genetic code that makes a morph. I would go so far as to say that the first albino, pied, axanthic, and any other recessive gene first appeared as the homozygous form which then created the hets in the wild and not as 2 hets in the wild randomly mating and making the homozygous animal.

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_Bluebonnet Herp_ (08-24-2015),dylanjwicklund (08-23-2015),_nightwolfsnow_ (08-23-2015),_se7en_ (08-29-2015)

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## darkranger69

a little deception here, i was expecting your clutches result almost as much as my own clutches, you will need 3 more years to make sure about it. sorry for you. but better late than never :Good Job:

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## Dave Green

> That makes more sense. For a gene to just pop out randomly from two parents unlike it makes you think it would be recessive. However if that is the case wouldn't you try breeding him back to the mother? Or is that one of the expected clutches?


I did breed him back to mom.  She laid a small clutch of 5 eggs and 4 slugs; however, 2 eggs went bad right away.  So, this years hopes depend on 3 eggs...

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## Sirensong26

> I did breed him back to mom.  She laid a small clutch of 5 eggs and 4 slugs; however, 2 eggs went bad right away.  So, this years hopes depend on 3 eggs...



What day are those eggs on?

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## Dave Green

> What day are those eggs on?


Only day 19.

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_Sirensong26_ (08-24-2015)

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## piedpipper

> Actually any type of genetic passing would make perfect sense. How do you think any base morph happened? A pastel was just born one day with none before it. Same with any other morph out there. It is a random flaw in the genetic code that makes a morph. I would go so far as to say that the first albino, pied, axanthic, and any other recessive gene first appeared as the homozygous form which then created the hets in the wild and not as 2 hets in the wild randomly mating and making the homozygous animal.


Very true. I had never thought about that concept before but of course mutations had to pop out of somewhere at some point. But what determines whether this mutation is heritable or just an individual fluke?

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## se7en

that is one fantastic looking snake though

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## T&C Exotics

> Very true. I had never thought about that concept before but of course mutations had to pop out of somewhere at some point. But what determines whether this mutation is heritable or just an individual fluke?


If this trait is able to be inherinable would be seen through line breeding as is being done.

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## Solarsoldier001

> Only day 19.


Only 41 more days to go. 


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_se7en_ (08-29-2015)

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## HospiceNHeartsRN

> Only day 19.


Any update on this clutch? Still going good and on time to an early October piping?

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## FluppleWott

20 more days right? You must be excited!!

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## Dave Green

> Any update on this clutch? Still going good and on time to an early October piping?


We're getting close...all three eggs look perfect.

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## Dave Green

The King of Dinkers has reproduced himself!!  It's still in the egg but as soon as it hatches I'll post photos...

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## Artemisace

So it's recessive, can't wait for pics  :Very Happy: 

snake room

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## frostysBP

Congrats...this will be one heck of  gene to work with..glad to see it proving out

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## Eramyl

Congrats Dave! I'd love to get in on it if it is recessive.

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HospiceNHeartsRN (09-30-2015)

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## Spiritserpents

yaaaaaaaaaaaay!

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## ALBINO IGUANA

All I can say is: "Dude, No Way"!

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## T&C Exotics

This is awesome. I am at a loss for words as to how awesone this is. Congrats on an amazingly stunning animal that is genetic and not just a fluke.

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## Tsanford

Dave I'm super excited about your success with this morph! Can't wait to see pics! Have you thought up on a name for your project...  :Very Happy:

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HospiceNHeartsRN (09-30-2015),_nightwolfsnow_ (10-01-2015),SamO (10-01-2015)

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## dylanjwicklund

Best new morph 

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HospiceNHeartsRN (09-30-2015)

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## gaiaeagle

That is so cool. Congrats!!! I so want one....if I could afford it.  :Wink:

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## John1982

Crossing my fingers it's a female for you, Dave. Not that this project needs anything else to boost the excitement. The idea that this baby and the father could be heterozygous sure doesn't hurt!

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## PitOnTheProwl

Cant wait to see the pictures.

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## Mr.Spence

A big congratulations. That is amazing, can't wait to see pics. Love this project.  :Good Job:

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## bcr229

Sweet!  I am so looking forward to pics.

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## guanagator

Glad for you! He's incredible will be cool see how this plays out over next few seasons!

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## FluppleWott

Epic!! This is easily one of the COOLEST bp patterns I've ever seen. So excited for pics!

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## MakiMaki

I don't think I would ever get tired of looking at that snake.

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## dylanjwicklund

Yea me too I want one badly but will be years before they hit canada 

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## Sirensong26

PICTURES IMMEDIATELY!!! I'm so glad for you that this proved genetic. Do you have any ideas for what you want to call this gorgeous new morph?

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## ARBallMorphs

can't wait for the photo's!

grats!!

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## Dave Green

I have some crappy news to report this morning.  Yesterday both of the siblings to the baby dinker had piped and had their heads sticking out of their eggs.  The baby dinker had made a lot of very small slits in its egg so I decided to make a small opening in the egg to help it out.  I was obviously thrilled when I saw an exact copy of dad, it was alive, moving and looked beautiful.  This morning it's head still wasn't out so I decide to lift the small flap I had made in the egg and the snake was in the same position as the night before, and it wasn't moving.  Unfortunately, it was completely formed and dead in the egg.  The snake looked perfect except it didn't completely absorb it's yolk.  This is obviously the last thing I wanted to post this morning but I am still thrilled knowing this morph is genetic.  The original Dinker, his siblings and half siblings from 2013 have all thrived and have been great feeders from the beginning.  This years hets are all doing well and ate frozen thawed almost immediately after shedding.  Therefore, I have no reason to think there is an issue with the gene, before today I was very impressed with how all the animals from this line have thrived and done well for me.  

I am really excited with the potential of this pattern mutation and should be able to produce a small group next season.  Some of his half siblings are already large enough to breed, 2016 should be very exciting.  I have received an incredible response from yesterday's posts, I have barely been able to keep up with the e-mails and messages.  I have also received quite a few people inquiring if I'm selling any, etc.  At this point, I won't be selling any babies from this line until 2016.  Thanks to everyone for all the positive comments!!

Dave

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## dylanjwicklund

Sad to hear that but very exciting about everything else and I especially can't wait to seem him with the pied those double hets  :Smile:  my favorite so far

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## Artemisace

I'm sorry to hear the little one didn't make it  :Sad: 

snake room

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## Asherah

Aw no, at least you know it is reproducible, but its so sad to hear the lil one didn't make it.

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## dylanjwicklund

I'm a little weird and would keep him Jared but that's just me I did it with a baby bearded dragon that didn't make it and lots of people love it 

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## SamO

So sorry for your loss.... wow, after all that work. Keep your chin up, 2016 looks bright!

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## MarkS

Sorry to hear the little one died but it's still thrilling to know that it's reproducible.  Lots of good things to look forward to next year.   :Good Job:

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## aLittleLessButter

Sorry to hear this but glad that you have the opportunity to try again this next season. Also I agree with getting it jarred.

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dylanjwicklund (10-01-2015)

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## PitOnTheProwl

Any baby dead in the egg sucks. Im sorry.

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## se7en

sorry to hear that dave

i was rooting for you

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## Jcash34

Congrats on proving it out dave. Really stinks that the little one didn't make it. Never what anyone wants to see. Best of luck for next year!!

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## piedlover79

That's just heart breaking! I lost my whole clutch this year that I had been waiting four years for, it was so tough.  Good luck next year!

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## MakiMaki

What a bummer.  Time to make more.  

Out of curiosity, was the King of Dinkers baby from the clutch out of the spider, or another related female?

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FluppleWott (10-02-2015)

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## John1982

That's a bummer, Dave. At least you know it's genetic now - I'd call that a successful year.

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## gtrdeath87

What in the Sam Hill is that male snake you got there? What where its parents? I want one that pattern but darker on the colors. Other than that the pattern is out of site.

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## Solarsoldier001

:Sad:  sorry to hear but I'm glad you made connections. 


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## Daigga

Well at least you can reasonable call it genetic now. Just curious, but have you given any thought as to what you might name the gene once you have everything all proved out and in order? Considering the developments this season, it seems like more of a true morph than a simple dinker, which means we'll need something better to call it than just the king of dinkers (though something keeping that kingly theme would be fitting)!

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## gtrdeath87

Looks like a leopard gecko and a bull snake boned.

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## T&C Exotics

> Well at least you can reasonable call it genetic now. Just curious, but have you given any thought as to what you might name the gene once you have everything all proved out and in order? Considering the developments this season, it seems like more of a true morph than a simple dinker, which means we'll need something better to call it than just the king of dinkers (though something keeping that kingly theme would be fitting)!


What exactly do you mean here? a dinker is an unproven animal and once proven is considered a genetic mutation aka morph.

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## gtrdeath87

I would call it the "Bull Leopard Morph" but I still wanna know what it's parents were cause some of its pattern could be something genetically unique and some of the appearance could just be influenced by other morphs. I guess what I am thinking is how much of it is its own genetic qualities and what parts are just a combination of other morphs.

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## gtrdeath87

Maybe you should just be breeding it to plain normal females and seeing what the "non normal" half of the clutches produce.

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## se7en

> Maybe you should just be breeding it to plain normal females and seeing what the "non normal" half of the clutches produce.
> 
> Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk




if you follow his page on FB, you'll see that dave knows what's he doing.

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## fLako0aGuiiLaR

Dave, did you get pictures of the baby dinker while it was on the egg?
if yes, can you show it to us that would be awesome

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## T&C Exotics

> I would call it the "Bull Leopard Morph" but I still wanna know what it's parents were cause some of its pattern could be something genetically unique and some of the appearance could just be influenced by other morphs. I guess what I am thinking is how much of it is its own genetic qualities and what parts are just a combination of other morphs.


if you find the original thread, which I am unable to do at this moment due to lack of time, you would see the original pairing. also you would know that the genes that were involved in the pairing would make it impossible to produce this animal.

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_Felidae_ (10-03-2015),PitOnTheProwl (10-03-2015),_se7en_ (10-03-2015)

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## PitOnTheProwl

> I would call it the "Bull Leopard Morph" but I still wanna know what it's parents were cause some of its pattern could be something genetically unique and some of the appearance could just be influenced by other morphs. I guess what I am thinking is how much of it is its own genetic qualities and what parts are just a combination of other morphs.


Please go back to page one and start from there. SMH

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## Izzys Keeper

Pics of the baby ?

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## Daigga

> What exactly do you mean here? a dinker is an unproven animal and once proven is considered a genetic mutation aka morph.


I meant that since it's looking very likely that this will prove out to be a genetic mutation that it needs a morph name and was curious if there were any ideas about what that would be at this point.

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## Izzys Keeper

> if you find the original thread, which I am unable to do at this moment due to lack of time, you would see the original pairing. also you would know that the genes that were involved in the pairing would make it impossible to produce this animal.


I think what he is asking is, is this a simple 1 gene recessive animal? Is it a combo, possible being influenced by the pastel or special genes as well. We at least know it has mojave in it since one of the parents was a super mojo. What would the gene look like when isolated?

So let's say the op named the new recessive gene "monster". The original dinker would be AT LEAST monster mojave, but also possible be monster mojave special or monster mojave special pastel.

Is this a 2, 3 or 4 gene animal were seeing?

That's gonna be the fun part of this while experiment. Isolating the new gene
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## Dave Green

Instead of quoting everyone I'll just try and answer all the questions here.  If I miss yours please feel free to follow up.

This all started when I was building a group to produce Crystals and Crystal combos.  The Dinker was created from a Pastel Special x Super Mojave breeding.  I produced three Crystals and the Dinker.  I also had a few other clutches fathered by the Pastel Special and kept them all as my knowledge of the adults made me think they could be related so I've been thinking recessive from the beginning.  None of the siblings or half siblings look unusual.  

The Dinker has produced 14 babies for me so far and those babies all look typical except the one that I'll call Dinker 2.0 for now.  There are three ways that I thought this could be genetic so I tried to prove/disprove each this season and even though it's only been three clutches I feel pretty confident that it's recessive.  Also, the original Dinker has Mojave in him and before this season possibly Pastel.  It can't have Special in him or else he would be a Crystal.  Out of 14 babies he hasn't produced one Pastel so at this point it looks like he is a Mojave plus the new gene.  I can also reasonably rule out dominant unless I had horrible odds and went 1 for 14.  In addition, since it came from the Crystal line I thought maybe it's a gene that needs to be combined with Mojave to reproduce itself.  I produced 10 Mojaves or Phantoms that all look typical so I can pretty reasonably rule that out as well.  The Dinker 2.0 came from breeding him back to the original Super Mojave.  

I didn't breed him to any Normals as I wanted to use virgins so I can be 100% confident that there was no sperm retention from prior breedings.  I simply didn't have any Normal virgins.  Since his mother was a Super Mojave and I was after Crystals a lot of the half siblings are Mojaves or Mojave combos.  I do have some that will be ready next year, and a few are pastels and a spider so hopefully I can isolate the gene next season.

Here is the photo of Dinker 2.0...

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## gtrdeath87

Thanks for clarifying all that I appreciate it. Yes I could have gone back and read everything and looked for other posts but I am lazy. I figure you would be proud and want to talk about your snake and wouldn't mind. Funny how everyone else who is completely uninvolved is more annoyed than the person I posed the questions to. Lol don't get upset guys, no reason to be jealous just face facts it has nothing to do with you guys so what do you care. Getting annoyed with me does not make you 'involved' it just makes you look like jerks. I joined the conversation late and didn't feel like reading 18 pages so sue me. But again thanks for all the clarification Dave.

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## KitaCat

Thanks Dave for the recap! 
I'm so sorry the baby didn't make it. It was beautiful. 
Can't wait to see what next year holds!

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## SamO

Dave, thank you for the courage to share. Our hearts go out to you.

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## bumblebee1028

Thank you for sharing, Dave, it's really fascinating. I'm so sorry about losing the baby. I hope you have better luck next year! Please keep us updated!

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## C2tcardin

I'm gutted that he didn't make it.  :Tears:  I've been following this thread for a while now and was really hoping you would have better luck proving it out, though it does seem like it's recessive after all. Good luck in the next breeding season getting a few more answers.

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## T&C Exotics

> Thanks for clarifying all that I appreciate it. Yes I could have gone back and read everything and looked for other posts but I am lazy. I figure you would be proud and want to talk about your snake and wouldn't mind. Funny how everyone else who is completely uninvolved is more annoyed than the person I posed the questions to. Lol don't get upset guys, no reason to be jealous just face facts it has nothing to do with you guys so what do you care. Getting annoyed with me does not make you 'involved' it just makes you look like jerks. I joined the conversation late and didn't feel like reading 18 pages so sue me. But again thanks for all the clarification Dave.


I'm really sorry if I came off rude and hope you accept my apology. I replied without thinking of what I was saying or how it came out. your question was a good one and I should have either not replied to you or waited until I had time to direct you to the info.

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## gtrdeath87

No worries

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## tacticalveterinarian

Thank you Dave for the update and I'm really sorry about the unfortunate outcome. On the positive note, I'm really glad you were able to prove the mutation genetic! I should also mention it's really refreshing to have someone be so open and transparent with their project- particularly with all the drama and negative things going on with the ball python community. Good luck Dave and I'm sure you will have many MANY cool combinations in the future! 





> Instead of quoting everyone I'll just try and answer all the questions here.  If I miss yours please feel free to follow up.
> 
> This all started when I was building a group to produce Crystals and Crystal combos.  The Dinker was created from a Pastel Special x Super Mojave breeding.  I produced three Crystals and the Dinker.  I also had a few other clutches fathered by the Pastel Special and kept them all as my knowledge of the adults made me think they could be related so I've been thinking recessive from the beginning.  None of the siblings or half siblings look unusual.  
> 
> The Dinker has produced 14 babies for me so far and those babies all look typical except the one that I'll call Dinker 2.0 for now.  There are three ways that I thought this could be genetic so I tried to prove/disprove each this season and even though it's only been three clutches I feel pretty confident that it's recessive.  Also, the original Dinker has Mojave in him and before this season possibly Pastel.  It can't have Special in him or else he would be a Crystal.  Out of 14 babies he hasn't produced one Pastel so at this point it looks like he is a Mojave plus the new gene.  I can also reasonably rule out dominant unless I had horrible odds and went 1 for 14.  In addition, since it came from the Crystal line I thought maybe it's a gene that needs to be combined with Mojave to reproduce itself.  I produced 10 Mojaves or Phantoms that all look typical so I can pretty reasonably rule that out as well.  The Dinker 2.0 came from breeding him back to the original Super Mojave.  
> 
> I didn't breed him to any Normals as I wanted to use virgins so I can be 100% confident that there was no sperm retention from prior breedings.  I simply didn't have any Normal virgins.  Since his mother was a Super Mojave and I was after Crystals a lot of the half siblings are Mojaves or Mojave combos.  I do have some that will be ready next year, and a few are pastels and a spider so hopefully I can isolate the gene next season.
> 
> Here is the photo of Dinker 2.0...

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_Dave Green_ (10-05-2015)

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## wolfy-hound

So, attempting to wrap my poor brain around all of the information...

The gene for KingDinker is probably recessive, which would mean he is homozygous for KingDinker. He threw a homozygous when bred back to mom, so mom has to have at least one gene, with the dad giving another copy of the gene...

So in total, you would have in your possession 3 animals who definitely have the KingDinker gene right now... with any offspring from KingDinker himself ALSO carrying at least one copy of the gene each(hets).

Do you still have KingDinker's dad?

Also, I wonder if mom actually is also KingDinker but it's being masked by the super mojave white washing it out?

Fascinating and I can't wait to see more updates. Thank you so much for sharing the whole process with us all. Sorry about the stillborn baby.

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embrit345 (05-03-2016),_MS2_ (10-05-2015)

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## MarkS

> So, attempting to wrap my poor brain around all of the information...
> 
> The gene for KingDinker is probably recessive, which would mean he is homozygous for KingDinker. He threw a homozygous when bred back to mom, so mom has to have at least one gene, with the dad giving another copy of the gene...
> 
> So in total, you would have in your possession 3 animals who definitely have the KingDinker gene right now... with any offspring from KingDinker himself ALSO carrying at least one copy of the gene each(hets).
> 
> Do you still have KingDinker's dad?
> 
> Also, I wonder if mom actually is also KingDinker but it's being masked by the super mojave white washing it out?
> ...


Not necessarily, we all know that alleles come in pairs and recessives are displayed when both alleles have the same mutation. Well, that's not necessarily the complete truth.  Recessives are displayed when ALL alleles at the locus are displaying the mutation, sometimes there is only one.  I've read of a condition known as partial monosomy where half of the gene pair can get skipped. If it happens at a locus where the gene has a mutation, then the mutation is displayed because there is no 'normal' half to cover for it.  I often wonder if that's how 'spontanious' mutations happen.

I guess to know for sure, we'd have to know the parentage of the parents to see if there is a possibility that the dad could carry the gene too.

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_Felidae_ (10-05-2015)

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## wolfy-hound

Or breed it out. Breed mom to a normal which would reveal if she throws a recessive mutation all by herself that she doesn't show visually. Same for dad.

I haven't heard of that happening in a ball python before. Granted, I'm not exactly in any inner circles or up to date on all the breeding projects. Heck, I haven't even heard of some of the newer morphs.

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## Dave Green

> So, attempting to wrap my poor brain around all of the information...
> 
> The gene for KingDinker is probably recessive, which would mean he is homozygous for KingDinker. He threw a homozygous when bred back to mom, so mom has to have at least one gene, with the dad giving another copy of the gene...
> 
> So in total, you would have in your possession 3 animals who definitely have the KingDinker gene right now... with any offspring from KingDinker himself ALSO carrying at least one copy of the gene each(hets).
> 
> Do you still have KingDinker's dad?
> 
> Also, I wonder if mom actually is also KingDinker but it's being masked by the super mojave white washing it out?
> ...


I think you're right but 14 babies is still a pretty small sample.  However, everything has fallen in line as if it's recessive.  I do have Dinker's dad as well as all the babies he's produced.  He's fathered four clutches so far and one more is hatching now.  I haven't seen anything unusual and I've kept them all thinking they may be 50% hets.  I was lucky enough to hatch the Dinker before I sold any of the father's offspring.  Some of those 50% het females will be ready to breed this coming season.  As far as mom goes she didn't produce all Dinkers so she appears to be a Het.  Also, if you notice the Dinker has a very thin eye stripe and mom does not.  I did hatch a super mojave along with the Dinker 2.0 so I'm anxious for her to shed and see how she looks under a black light.  Fun Stuff!

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dylanjwicklund (10-08-2015),_se7en_ (10-06-2015)

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## KitaCat

> I think you're right but 14 babies is still a pretty small sample.  However, everything has fallen in line as if it's recessive.  I do have Dinker's dad as well as all the babies he's produced.  He's fathered four clutches so far and one more is hatching now.  I haven't seen anything unusual and I've kept them all thinking they may be 50% hets.  I was lucky enough to hatch the Dinker before I sold any of the father's offspring.  Some of those 50% het females will be ready to breed this coming season.  As far as mom goes she didn't produce all Dinkers so she appears to be a Het.  Also, if you notice the Dinker has a very thin eye stripe and mom does not.  I did hatch a super mojave along with the Dinker 2.0 so I'm anxious for her to shed and see how she looks under a black light.  Fun Stuff!


Exciting! With any luck that super mojave is a super dinker mojave.  :Wink: 

I hadn't noticed the eye stripe. Are there any other photos of Dinker floating around? I don't think I've seen any except for the original post in this thread.

Edit: I see the eye stripe now on the baby!  :Smile:

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## LightningPython

Any updates on the babies? Have they hatched yet?
This is so exciting!

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## hood886

You must have not read the last couple pages

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PitOnTheProwl (11-05-2015),_se7en_ (11-05-2015)

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## chwkgirl

Do you think the parent might have been super Mojave pinstripe. Cus it looks like a busy jigsaw

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## Slaugbr1

So i just read through 19 pages and went through the ups and downs with you and everyone following. This is the coolest thing i have read about ball pythons. I have always heard of people trying to prove genes out but this really puts it into perspective. Thank you for sharing.

I am really sorry about the baby ball. Although it had to be refreshing to see the pattern passed on at least! Good luck will be looking for updates!

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_Dave Green_ (12-04-2015)

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## Dave Green

> Do you think the parent might have been super Mojave pinstripe. Cus it looks like a busy jigsaw
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk


I don't think it looks like a jigsaw at all.  I know both parents history and there is no pinstripe in their lineage and she hasn't produced any pinstripes.  The Dinker himself has now produced 17 babies without a pinstripe.

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_se7en_ (12-04-2015)

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## Solarsoldier001

Dave you are doing such good work. I can't wait till all the pieces are solved for you. 


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_Dave Green_ (12-05-2015)

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## chwkgirl

That's kewl. 

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_Dave Green_ (12-05-2015)

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## Sirensong26

Is there any update on this project?

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## embrit345

Wonderful reading really simp, y put genetic terms for a newbie like me. Thanks for sharing Dave and huge good luck wit the coming season xx

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## Dave Green

> Is there any update on this project?


It's moving along.  Breeding started a little late here but things are progressing nicely.  It doesn't look like mom will go this year so I'm dealing with a group of 50% het females and I'll need some luck.  Hopefully I'll have a few to show off this fall.

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_ARBallMorphs_ (05-03-2016),embrit345 (05-03-2016),_Fraido_ (05-03-2016),MarkS (05-03-2016),*mlededee* (05-03-2016),_se7en_ (05-03-2016),wolfy-hound (05-03-2016)

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## Fraido

Good luck!

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_Dave Green_ (05-03-2016)

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## Sirensong26

Good Luck! I want to see a bunch of little King of Dinkers crawling around!

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_Dave Green_ (05-03-2016)

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## se7en

all hail the king of dinkers! :Bowdown:  :Bowdown:  :Bowdown:   :Snake:

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_Dave Green_ (05-03-2016)

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## For Goodness Snakes

Dave,

What a beautiful snake, I wish you all the luck.

I can't wait to see what you produce from him.

Brian

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_Dave Green_ (05-03-2016)

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## ARBallMorphs

Hey Dave, I hope some of those 50% het. girls proof out for you and for us I would love to some some hatchlings looking like dad  :Good Job:

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_Dave Green_ (05-03-2016)

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## Ballpythonguy92

Hey anymore babies this year? And how are the hets doing ?

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Marzipan (06-22-2017)

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