# Ball Pythons > BP Husbandry >  A warning about live feeder mice and rats.....

## nimblykimbly

Hi everyone! I just wanted to post this as a warning and something to just keep an eye out for when you go to buy live feeder mice/rats.

I feed my snakes frozen/thawed rats. I haven't bought a live feeder rodent in a very long time... like since I was in my teens. Anyway, one of my newer snakes has been adamantly refusing F/T despite the zombie dances, hairdryer trick... you name it. She just recently came out of quarantine, and was settled quite nicely in her tub in the big rack. I am utterly paranoid of mites. Just thinking about them gives me the willies and makes my head itch. Anyway, my point is, I treat my set up, surroundings, carpet, and all of my snakes for mites when they come in, and periodically just to be sure there are no buggers. 

I was still having trouble feeding her, and had a feeling she just was NOT going to take anything but live ( contact her breeder and he said she LOVES live, go fig), so I went to our local sketchy pet store and picked up a small rat for her. Didn't even think twice about it.... didn't even think about the rat and mites. I fed it to her. She was happy! She took it right away! The next day, she was soaking in her water dish. Uh oh. I thought maybe she was just too warm for whatever reason. Next day, there she was still in her water dish. My husband and I took her out and looked her over. We noticed her skin/scales (our pied, her white parts) had small red areas, so I looked reeeaaaaally closely. MITES!!!! AGGGHHH!!!!! Little tiny, almost invisible little mites! After an itch fest, spray down, wipe down, preventative decontamination of our ENTIRE rack/snake/bedding/water bowl in the dishwasher, wigging out, freaking out, spraying the carpet in the entire room, throwing away any cardboard boxes, vacuum... you get the idea, all the snakes were back in their rack, settled and content. I THINK and pray that we caught it straight away before they 'grew up' and spread, but all snakes are still getting sprayed every three days just in case. 

At first I thought "How on EARTH did the mites get in there???" It wasn't until my husband and I racked our brains and exhausted all possibilities that I realized that the 'feeder rodents' were kept in the same room as ALL of their snakes, and I had even thought in the past that IF I ever bought anything from that place (which I highly doubt) that snake would have the decontamination of a lifetime and probably be in QT for a year.... in other words, I would likely not get anything from there. I am completely certain that the mites hijacked in on that feeder rodent. There is no other way they could have gotten in.

I just wanted to post this for all new snake owners, or ones like me who just haven't bought live in a long while and might be unaware.... Be very careful of where you get them! 

Cheers - Kim

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## loonunit

I thought snake mites are supposed to be specific to snakes? That store must be stuffed full of them if they're hitching rides on the prey items.

(Though it would make sense for snake mites to adapt to the prey species.)

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## Inknsteel

It's possible that the mites could have hitched a ride on the rat, but reptile mites are host specific. They feed specifically on reptiles, so they wouldn't survive long on the rat's fur. It's also possible that if you were near their snakes and the snakes were infested, the mites could have hitched a ride on your clothes. I'm not sure what you're using to treat the mite outbreak, but spraying the snakes every three days sounds not only excessive, but stressful to the animals. I would recommend ordering a can of Provent-A-Mite to treat everyone. If you follow the instructions on the can, one treatment is all it should take. A second precautionary treatment after a month is recommended, but it doesn't require spraying anything on the snake, which means less stress IMO.

Good luck. Mites can be seriously tough to get rid of once they've established in your collection....

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## Freakie_frog

Just to go ahead and dispel a few things to make sure everyone after this is on the same page. Mites that are parasitic to rodents are not to reptiles and visa verse. is it possible that they might have hitchhiked on the rodent for a short time? Sure but snake mites don't survive long on warm blooded critters. It's just as possible that you picked them on your person and brought them in. I will say this the number of mites you're talking about sounds odd for a snake that only had them for 1 day. So from what I've known of snake mites..The animal had them for an extended period of time and they just got bad enough to make her soak herself. The fact that you said it was a "new" snake lends even more credence to the idea that the animal had them before you got her and they just now got bad..

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_Don_ (02-26-2013),DooLittle (02-26-2013),_satomi325_ (02-26-2013),wolfy-hound (02-26-2013)

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## satomi325

> My husband and I took her out and looked her over. We noticed her skin/scales (our pied, her white parts) had small red areas, so I looked reeeaaaaally closely. MITES!!!! AGGGHHH!!!!! Little tiny, almost invisible little mites!


Snake mites aren't red or "almost invisible".
They're black and look like poppy seeds. Unless it's the juvi stage, which are brown in coloration. 

Are you sure it isn't harmless spider mites? (from bedding perhaps? )




> After an itch fest


Rodent mites and snake mites are species specific. It shouldn't make you itchy, unless it is something else?

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## nimblykimbly

> Snake mites aren't red or "almost invisible".
> They're black and look like poppy seeds. Unless it's the juvi stage, which are brown in coloration. 
> 
> Are you sure it isn't harmless spider mites? (from bedding perhaps? )
> 
> 
> 
> Rodent mites and snake mites are species specific. It shouldn't make you itchy, unless it is something else?


They were juvi mites, teeny tiny little brown things, nearly invisible I say because of their size. The red was irritation from them biting her, I believe.

They made me itchy simply because I got the heebie-jeebies from seeing them... lol I wasn't getting bitten. 

I'm not giving the impression that they were living/feeding on the rats, but I do believe they hitchhiked in on it. All of my snakes are treated when they come in, and she had never shown any signs previously of any mites...? None of my snakes have shown any signs of mites at all, either. Just her, only after I fed her the rat...?

The spray I use on my snakes is the brand Reptile Spray from Reptile Basics. It's all natural and safe for use on the snake. The label says to treat the snake every three days in the event of a mite problem. I spray down the snakes when they come in, three days later just in case, then if I see no signs of mites, I leave it be and spray just once more when QT is over.

I appreciate everyone's feedback, when I found the mites on her, it really freaked me out. I did research it online and on some other forums and reptile pages it says that they can indeed carry them in and infect your snakes. The rats were on one shelf in glass tanks, and snakes were on the same shelf and next shelf, also in glass tanks. It was a sketchy place, to say the least, but at the time it was the only place I could find a live feeder rat for her. I know it's not typical for this to happen, but I do believe it's possible...?  :Smile: 


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## nimblykimbly

> Just to go ahead and dispel a few things to make sure everyone after this is on the same page. Mites that are parasitic to rodents are not to reptiles and visa verse. is it possible that they might have hitchhiked on the rodent for a short time? Sure but snake mites don't survive long on warm blooded critters. It's just as possible that you picked them on your person and brought them in. I will say this the number of mites you're talking about sounds odd for a snake that only had them for 1 day. So from what I've known of snake mites..The animal had them for an extended period of time and they just got bad enough to make her soak herself. The fact that you said it was a "new" snake lends even more credence to the idea that the animal had them before you got her and they just now got bad..


She had a few mites on her, I'd say we physically saw maybe 10? All tiny, no adult ones. I saw none on the paper towels (my substrate) following treatment. We have had her for about a month and a half. We also didn't touch any reptiles while we were at the store, it could be possible but highly unlikely that we brought them home on our clothes... And wouldn't we have infected more than just her if they were on us?

I wanted to add that, as said previously, I treat all incoming snakes, and she had been treated and showed no signs of any mites in all the time we've had her. I'm confused as to how she could have mites despite being treated several times precautionary?


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## Freakie_frog

> She had a few mites on her, I'd say we physically saw maybe 10? All tiny, no adult ones. I saw none on the paper towels (my substrate) following treatment. We have had her for about a month and a half. We also didn't touch any reptiles while we were at the store, it could be possible but highly unlikely that we brought them home on our clothes... And wouldn't we have infected more than just her if they were on us?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2


Yep I'd treat the entire rack. 




> We have had her for about a month and a half.


 If memory serves the life cycle of a reptile mite from egg to adult is about 45-60 days..so it's still possible that she came in with them. The Idea that there were 10+ reptile mites on an animal that they don't feed on that transferred to your snakes and caused her to soak 24 hours later means that there were dozens that the snake ate on the rat which means that some got on you, the cage, and might have migrate to anything the rat came in close proximity to. Just food for thought.

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nimblykimbly (02-26-2013),wolfy-hound (02-26-2013)

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## nimblykimbly

> Yep I'd treat the entire rack. 
> 
>  If memory serves the life cycle of a reptile mite from egg to adult is about 45-60 days..so it's still possible that she came in with them. The Idea that there were 10+ reptile mites on an animal that they don't feed on that transferred to your snakes and caused her to soak 24 hours later means that there were dozens that the snake ate on the rat which means that some got on you, the cage, and might have migrate to anything the rat came in close proximity to. Just food for thought.


Oh I treated the entire AREA... lol See the Post  :Smile:  I freaked out and disinfected every snake, tub, shelf, hole, water dish, the carpet surrounding, the walls, the heat tape, the curtains on the windows... Maybe overkill, but I am super paranoid of parasites. 

Gah! You gave me the willies all over again! lol!


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## Stewart_Reptiles

> Just to go ahead and dispel a few things to make sure everyone after this is on the same page. Mites that are parasitic to rodents are not to reptiles and visa verse. is it possible that they might have hitchhiked on the rodent for a short time? Sure but snake mites don't survive long on warm blooded critters. It's just as possible that you picked them on your person and brought them in. I will say this the number of mites you're talking about sounds odd for a snake that only had them for 1 day. So from what I've known of snake mites..The animal had them for an extended period of time and they just got bad enough to make her soak herself. The fact that you said it was a "new" snake lends even more credence to the idea that the animal had them before you got her and they just now got bad..


^This^

Given it's more than a mite or two I will go with your snake had mites as well, treating with reptile relief actually gives you a false sense of security, it does kill mites however it does not kill eggs which means once they hatch you are back to square one with a mite infestation.

I would recommend PAM (Provent A Mite) it kills mites and eggs as well.

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## Freakie_frog

> Oh I treated the entire AREA... lol See the Post  I freaked out and disinfected every snake, tub, shelf, hole, water dish, the carpet surrounding, the walls, the heat tape, the curtains on the windows... Maybe overkill, but I am super paranoid of parasites. 
> 
> Gah! You gave me the willies all over again! lol!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2


You "disinfected" with something that kills both the living mites and lasts long enough to kill any egg's that might hatch? right? Most mite treatment will suggest two or more rounds of treatment because you never know where in the life cycle the mites are..

Just keep an eye out..

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nimblykimbly (02-26-2013)

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## nimblykimbly

> You "disinfected" with something that kills both the living mites and lasts long enough to kill any egg's that might hatch? right? Most mite treatment will suggest two or more rounds of treatment because you never know where in the life cycle the mites are..
> 
> Just keep an eye out..


okay, I'm sorry, I need to clarify. I treat the snake itself with Reptile Spray, and I treat all surrounding areas with PAM.  :Smile:  I guess that, rereading it, it does sound like I treated everything with Reptile Spray. I believe that PAM stays active for about a month...? I planned to retreat like I did when I found the mites, after one month.

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## snakesRkewl

Once a month doesn't seem like often enough 
I think you're supposed to treat once a week for 3 weeks  :Confused:

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## KMG

The three young bloods I recently got came with mites for free. I got Reptile Spray and used it for everything. It worked awesome! Killed them first try with one treatment. For a product that is animal safe and easily found locally I highly recommend it.

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nimblykimbly (02-26-2013)

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## nimblykimbly

> Once a month doesn't seem like often enough 
> I think you're supposed to treat once a week for 3 weeks


I'm pretty sure it's effective for 30 days....


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## pookie!

THIS exact thing has happened to me. The pet store we were buying our feeder mice and rats from apparently is INFESTED with mites and we couldnt figure out where our snakes got them or why they kept coming back, turns out that was it.

We are no longer buying from that shop and have picked a better store that supplies better feeders and are starting our own colony.

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nimblykimbly (02-26-2013)

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## nimblykimbly

> The three young bloods I recently got came with mites for free. I got Reptile Spray and used it for everything. It worked awesome! Killed them first try with one treatment. For a product that is animal safe and easily found locally I highly recommend it.


Yes, it does work really well! I also use it as a preventative measure when I get new snakes in... Hadn't had a problem at all until this incident!


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## nimblykimbly

> THIS exact thing has happened to me. The pet store we were buying our feeder mice and rats from apparently is INFESTED with mites and we couldnt figure out where our snakes got them or why they kept coming back, turns out that was it.
> 
> We are no longer buying from that shop and have picked a better store that supplies better feeders and are starting our own colony.


Thank you!!  :Smile:  I found another (and ironically cheaper) source that separates their live feeders from all other animals, in a separate room. If I need to buy live, I'll get them from them from now on.... Apparently I was paying double for mites! Agk!


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## pookie!

> Thank you!!  I found another (and ironically cheaper) source that separates their live feeders from all other animals, in a separate room. If I need to buy live, I'll get them from them from now on.... Apparently I was paying double for mites! Agk!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2


Yep thats how this new store we go to does, the rats and mice are in their own separate room and they have very few reptiles even in the store.. Id never thought that a live feeder could be harboring mites like that, glad we werent alone lol and those mites must be horrible in the store to where that could even happen. Crazy..

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## nimblykimbly

> Yep thats how this new store we go to does, the rats and mice are in their own separate room and they have very few reptiles even in the store.. Id never thought that a live feeder could be harboring mites like that, glad we werent alone lol and those mites must be horrible in the store to where that could even happen. Crazy..


Yeah, the store is really sketchy and old. I think the guy who owns it means well, but he just can't keep up with it all and also doesn't follow *the best* husbandry techniques. He had a Ball Python and a Red Tailed Boa in one 20 gal tank together, and bearded dragons on aspen chips with no real heat source. All of his snakes look miserable. No heat source, just the regular temp of the store and display lights. But until I learned that this other place carried 3 sizes of rats, I thought this guy was my only choice... and I didn't realize this mite thing could happen either! I don't think it's typical to have mites come in on rats, but if the conditions are bad enough, I think it's totally possible! I've read a bunch that this has happened to others, too - that's why I wanted to share my experience so that hopefully newer keepers can be aware.  :Smile:

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