# Miscellaneous Herp Interests > Venomous Animals >  rear fanged snakes

## BOWSER11788

i was checking out lll reptiles snake and came across the Malaysian Mangrove Snakes, i think im in love. to me these are some of the most beautiful snakes. so my question is , i live in NC, and do you have to have any permit or liscense to keep these.  also are these snakes you can hold, i know rear-fangeds venom don't cause death so just wondering. I have no experince with hots or venomous but these snakes were in with the hognoses and pine snakes, so i didn't think there that venomous

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## wilomn

I have no clue about your local laws and regulations but, unless you pick your animal yourself, in person from lll, chances are good you will not be happy in the long run. They ship a LOT of crap.

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## BOWSER11788

im not gonna buy from them, i just saw them from there, i need to know about dangers of owning one and if you cann hold them, i googled and cant find any care sheets

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## hud556

I saw a picture of a B. dendrophila bite that was seriously necrotic. It was in a thread on reptile forums UK (google mangrove snake bite) but the pics have been removed. After seeing the pics I figured it was too hot for me...

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## BOWSER11788

eww, thanx, the look so pretty, but don't want anything like that in the house with my woman, or any kids

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## mainbutter

You don't want a bite from a B. dendrophila, but it's not going to kill you unless you have an allergic reaction, which really isn't the venom killing you but your own body.

There have been no serious hospitalizations or fatalities on record as far as I know, and as far as wikipedia knows as well apparently.

You can expect localized pain, possible large area pain in a limb, pretty bad swelling, and as mentioned before sometimes necrosis can set in which is the thing to be most concerned about.

I'd risk a FWC bite well before a B. Dendrophila bite.  Just because it's not likely to kill you doesn't mean you won't really regret being bit.

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## BOWSER11788

hey, does anybody know a care sheet for these

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## mainbutter

http://www.asian-colubrids.com/Artic...ophila_ssp.htm

I'm no expert, I just googled it for you.

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## BOWSER11788

thank you, i put it yahoo, but couldn't find anything

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## Denial

You need to contact your local fish and game department. I know the laws in north carolina have changed but they can tell you exactly what you need or if you dont need a permit.

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## BOWSER11788

yea, i was just wondering, when i was at te columbia expo, 2 breeders told me you dont need a permit, but you need a locking lid, same as the new rule that i read in the paper a week ago, but i also head hognose snakes had some kind of venom

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## mainbutter

Not to go off topic too much but yes, hoggies have venom.  It's pretty mild, the most serious envenomation I have seen pics of was after something like 5+ minutes of chewing (NEVER let a rear fanged snake do this!!) and resulted in pain, followed by numbness and some tenderness, with pretty bad swelling for a few days, but overall nothing serious.  On top of that hoggies apparently are pretty darn reluctant to actually bite in defense.  Overall they're a very safe snake to have as a pet.

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## Skiploder

> hey, does anybody know a care sheet for these


I used to keep a trio - and I even took a couple of nice bites.

PM me with what you need to know and I'll fill you in on what worked for me.

There are rear fanged snakes that CAN kill you.  B. Dendrophilia is not one of those.

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## qiksilver

> I used to keep a trio - and I even took a couple of nice bites.
> 
> PM me with what you need to know and I'll fill you in on what worked for me.
> 
> There are rear fanged snakes that CAN kill you.  B. Dendrophilia is not one of those.


Boomslangs for example.

Any chance you'd be willing to post your experiences with mangroves here?

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## Skiploder

> Boomslangs for example.
> 
> Any chance you'd be willing to post your experiences with mangroves here?


I got the first b d melanota snake when he was a little over 5 months old - I was lucky to be close to a breeder and thus was spared all of the WC hassles that people seem to have with boiga.

While he never bit me, he was a flighty snake, and after five years of working with him, I'd never got to the point where I'd let another person (even one with snake experience) handle him unless they were wearing gloves. He was a nervous, twitchy animal that struck at anyone he didn't recognize.

The two females were biters.  One was WC and had every freaking parasite known to man.  

There is a conventional wisdom with dendrophilia that if you handle them during the day, you won't get bit.  That's a  partial load of crap.  It is certainly easier to do cage maintenance and handle them during the day, but they spook easily and took my bites while the sun was shining.

All three had an insane a feeding response.  The problem with these guys is the edginess - they are high strung and sometimes unpredictable animals.  The females were fine as long as I wasn't moving with them in hand.

The male was always high strung but unlike the girls he handled fairly well with me, but he was downright nasty to people he didn't know. He bit a good friend of mine, who not only is very experienced with snakes, but owns several species pairs of boiga himself. He also got extremely irritated when my kids or my wife were in the snake house.

As a display snake, they are stunning and they make use of every square vertical inch of their enclosures.   

I'd like to think I have a connection with all of my animals.  I keep a WC thrasops which is a more dangerous rear-fanged colubrid and feel I have a level of "trust" with that animal. He comes to the front of his viv when I enter the room and will come right to me without fail.  He never tries to get away and I can even manually open his mouth and touch or restrain his head.

I never felt that with the three boigas.  Anything other than the most deliberate moves resulted in defensive behavior.

Earlier this year I traded them to my aforementioned friend who is a boiga nut.

The bites?  We'll I never let the girls chew and only got the rear fangs in me once.  It bled like you'd expect and I had some light swelling and bruising.  

As for husbandry - vertically oriented cages.  I used to keep live plants in the three enclosures which helped keep humidity up around 75%.  Temp in the snake house is about 76 degrees and I kept the hot end at about 85 degrees with a slightly warmer hot spot.

They are very active at night and will also make liberal use of aerial nests.  All three of mine ate anything you'd put in front of them.

They are one species that will soak if you don't keep their humidity up and will readily regurge if they are spending too much time in their water bowls.

My friend the boiga afficionado uses a misting system and partial screen cages with his animals.  

I'd get one from someone who breeds them.  Many animals for sale out there are WC and harbor an alarming number of parasites.

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tropiclikeitshot (06-07-2022)

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## BOWSER11788

wow thank you alot skiploder, i wont be getting one for a while but if i do i will def. call on you again. i would love to have it as a display snake anyway.

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## Hypnotic Exotic

Be careful with any hot. A friend of mine who has a ton of experience with hots knows of a person that died from a false water cobra bite due to an allergic reaction. These snakes aren't considered deadly but anything can happen if you have a bad reaction.

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## wilomn

> Be careful with any hot. A friend of mine who has a ton of experience with hots knows of a person that died from a false water cobra bite due to an allergic reaction. These snakes aren't considered deadly but anything can happen if you have a bad reaction.


Please provide facts.

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## Skiploder

> Be careful with any hot. A friend of mine who has a ton of experience with hots knows of a person that died from a false water cobra bite due to an allergic reaction. These snakes aren't considered deadly but anything can happen if you have a bad reaction.


An allergic reaction?

Seriously?

Do you now how astonishingly rare these are for venomous snakes in general?  I mean people who work constantly around front fanged snakes run a slight risk due to the inhalation of dried venom residue or from repeated envenomations, but for rear fanged snakes they are all but unheard of.  

Oh, I'm sure someone will rush to point me to the direction of a photo of a hognose bite victim, complete with swollen digits - but you realize this is from the venom - not an allergic reaction?  Right?

You know what an allergic reaction is?  What an allergic reaction is caused by?

Regardless - I would strongly suggest that you shot a PM to either Dr. Fry or Dr. Wuster and tell them of this unheard of and yet to be documented occurrence.  Anaphylaxis and allergic reactions to colubrid bites are all but unheard of.  There has been only one documented case of an allergic reaction and it did not involve a death.

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## Deadly_Legend

I've held one, I agree they are pretty! (held at a reptile expo, friend of mine bought it) but, I don't think they are easy to keep from what i've read... Friend has 40+ years experience with snakes, and has had a ton of hots in past.

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