# Ball Pythons > General BP's >  Habitat vs Tupperwear

## Arsinoe

I think you all know I hate it when snakes have to live in plastic bins. For those who just have a snake or two I want to make a poll to find out if you made a nice comfy habitat for your snake to live in or you dump it in plasticwear for convience sake.

Breeders don't have to reply. That's a whole different thing.

For those how use a habitat you can post pictures here too if you want.

----------


## Sarin

I only have two BP's. My first one was in a display tank. Correct size, but I had a hell of a time keeping the right temperatures and humidity. It was not an ideal invironment (IMO) for him.

So I decided to go with tubs.

I did not "dump my snakes" in tubs for my convenience. I feel it is better for them so that is what I shall do. If it also saves some space, then great.

----------


## musicalKeyes

I have three, and am currently building a rack. I'm not "dumping" them in there, and certainly not for "convenience's sake." When I got my first, I too believed that tanks were better for them, and worked hard to keep the tanks at the perfect humidity and temperature. However, if you know anything of wild BPs, you'll know that while they live in Africa, and while yes, Africa is huge, they live in old burrows and termite mounds, rarely coming out. Tubs are _much_ more conducive to their natural, wild state. And while you do get one that doesn't mind larger, more open areas (I've got one myself), the majority will thrive in tubs. They are nocturnal and prefer small, dark spaces, and we as humans force them into big tanks and bright areas. 

I didn't vote. I don't mean to be rude, but every time you post something, you seem to manage to get some jab in there at those of us who keep our animals in tubs, while glorifying you're own way of keeping your animal. Everyone will have different opinions, but it is important, I think, to realize that different snakes and different species do better in different habitats, and it is up to the individual owner to decide how they will keep their animal.

----------

_angllady2_ (04-17-2010),_jben_ (04-17-2010),KLHReptiles (04-23-2010),NotaMallard (04-19-2010),Nuzum1978 (04-17-2010),_Quiet Tempest_ (04-19-2010),rabernet (04-17-2010),_Royal Morphz_ (05-08-2010),SlitherinSisters (04-18-2010),_thegoalie22_ (04-21-2010)

----------


## ALTownsend1

Here is a photo of what I had Wyatt in (minus the light):



This week, I "dumped" him into a rack system...

Ball Pythons, I quickly learned, are not showcase animals, and although the glass habitat brought me enjoyment as a nice visual, I struggled to maintain proper temps and humidity, which I now easily maintain in his rack. What we as owner "think" is nicer for our ball pythons often is detrimental to their health. I don't think you or I would find a termite hole to be a nice, comfortable home, but a ball python sure would. What you may view as owner laziness, the snake sees as an ideal home. Wyatt doesn't "love" me any less, or isn't less "happy" because he doesn't have dollar store plants or "realistic looking" hide, he just wants a warm, humid home, which he can find in the tub much better than he could the aesthetically pleasing habitat.

----------

rabernet (04-17-2010),SlitherinSisters (04-18-2010)

----------


## Arsinoe

> I have three, and am currently building a rack. I'm not "dumping" them in there, and certainly not for "convenience's sake." When I got my first, I too believed that tanks were better for them, and worked hard to keep the tanks at the perfect humidity and temperature. However, if you know anything of wild BPs, you'll know that while they live in Africa, and while yes, Africa is huge, they live in old burrows and termite mounds, rarely coming out. Tubs are _much_ more conducive to their natural, wild state. And while you do get one that doesn't mind larger, more open areas (I've got one myself), the majority will thrive in tubs. They are nocturnal and prefer small, dark spaces, and we as humans force them into big tanks and bright areas. 
> 
> I didn't vote. I don't mean to be rude, but every time you post something, you seem to manage to get some jab in there at those of us who keep our animals in tubs, while glorifying you're own way of keeping your animal. Everyone will have different opinions, but it is important, I think, to realize that different snakes and different species do better in different habitats, and it is up to the individual owner to decide how they will keep their animal.


I've never pretended to like bins for animals. Sure the tanks are more work, but they can have a better quality of life in then and not just exist in a plastic world. The wild guys at least have a choice to hide in a hole, but they also have the choice to come out when they want also. Pet snakes don't have any choices other than what we give them and I just do not agree in a sterile plasticine lifestyle for any living creature.

 :Taz:  Rant Over  :Taz:

----------


## mr. s

I have both natural tanks set up and tubs.

None of my tubbed snakes seem too upset about it.

----------

Charlie And Lucy (04-17-2010)

----------


## Elise.m

I agree with musicalKeyes. I have my snakes in tubs, and they're just fine. Please, if you're a snake mind reader, come over and tell me that they hate it.

The fact is many of us have our snakes in tubs and they do great, sometimes even better than how yours eats and sheds. My snake was in a "nice comfortable tank" and she didn't eat for 3 weeks. Switched her to a tub, and what do you know. She eats! Tubs can be way more comfortable for BPs than tanks. Much more manageable than a tank too.

I'm not sure if you're trying to push your opinion on us that have our snakes in tubs... But I can tell you right now, it's not going to work for the vast majority of us.

----------


## musicalKeyes

> I've never pretended to like bins for animals. Sure the tanks are more work, but they can have a better quality of life in then and not just exist in a plastic world. The wild guys at least have a choice to hide in a hole, but they also have the choice to come out when they want also. Pet snakes don't have any choices other than what we give them and I just do not agree in a sterile plasticine lifestyle for any living creature.
> 
>  Rant Over


I guess the point is moot then. I don't think anyone's asking you to change your opinion, just to stop acting like tubs are a more irresponsible way to keep a snake, because they're not. My king snake, and all of my other reptiles and amphibians, reside in live-planted tanks, because it suits them better. I believe that tubs suit ball pythons better than a tank, and while they are in a tub, they still have bedding, and hides, and maybe even a fake plant or two. Using words like "dump" and "convenience" is going to rub people the wrong way.

----------


## 4theSNAKElady

> I have three, and am currently building a rack. I'm not "dumping" them in there, and certainly not for "convenience's sake." When I got my first, I too believed that tanks were better for them, and worked hard to keep the tanks at the perfect humidity and temperature. However, if you know anything of wild BPs, you'll know that while they live in Africa, and while yes, Africa is huge, they live in old burrows and termite mounds, rarely coming out. Tubs are _much_ more conducive to their natural, wild state. And while you do get one that doesn't mind larger, more open areas (I've got one myself), the majority will thrive in tubs. They are nocturnal and prefer small, dark spaces, and we as humans force them into big tanks and bright areas.


 :Clap:   :Dancin' Banana:

----------


## Nuzum1978

I have one in a tank and one in a tub. The one in the tub absolutely would not make it in a tank. It is way too flighty and nervous. I don't find it very hard to maintain temps/humidity in my tank, but I do see the convenience of tubs. 

As for the one in the tank (55 gal.) she typically spends ALL of her time in a hide which is 14''X6''. So much for the extra space. She's getting downsized when I get my first rack in a few weeks.

----------


## Shock

I havetwo snakes. A corn snake and a bp. Right now they are both in tanks. The corn does great in the tank. However I cant wait to get the bp in a tub. Hesbeen having bad sheds do to trouble keeping it heated and the humidity. Besides he is always in his hide.

----------


## cinderbird

my geckos are in display "habitats"... and my snakes are all in RACKS. not "tupperwear"... RACKS. why? Because they seem content. They eat, shed, poop, etc all in their tubs. 

I used to keep snakes in glass display tanks. It was a royal pain in my behind. I could't properly lift and carry those things around to CLEAN them. That is why i eventually got rid of them. The tubs are much easier to clean and sterilize and keep a good, sanitary environment for my animals. 

I've yet to have a shed issue with a snake in a tub since i switched to them. You CAN have a great display type cage using a TUB as an enclosure. There is also another option: professionally made caging. I plan on picking up a few good sized cages for my bigger animals when I move. 

Not everything is black and white in this hobby, and not everything that works for one keeper will work for another. Some people do great with glass displays, some dont. I was one of the ones that didn't do well with them and now that I've switched i will never be going back to glass for snakes. I'll stick with professional caging and racks.

----------


## BuckeyeBalls

> or you dump it in plasticwear for convience sake.
> 
> Breeders don't have to reply. That's a whole different thing.


Yup i dumb him in a tupperware for "convience sake" but guess what? Its his convience also.

My humidity always stays at 55-60% temps are always on point. And hes not in some big ass tank that stresses him out. He eats, sheds, poops so he must be happy with it  :Good Job:

----------


## BuckeyeBalls

Oh also let me add to this.

They live in like ant mounds correct? How often do u think they come out the ant mound to explore and talk to the animals and play poker?

If i had to guess i would think they find a hole.. Go in it and stay in it until one of a few things happen. They get to hot/cold and need to relocate or they get hungry and need to go LOOK for food. But seeing as we provide them the food i dont see why they would ever really want to just go check things out.

Correct me if im wrong but this is just what iv seen. My bp sits in his hide ALL day. IF he comes out its to go across the tub to the next hide cuz he got too hot maybe? OR to get water. Iv yet to see him out other then them 2 things. And yes i check on him in the middle of the night seeing as i dont goto bed till around 4am

----------


## A.VinczeBPs

Even before breeding them I learned very quickly that racks were the best for everyone. I can clean them quickly, and they feel safe, secure and stay healthy.

Sometimes I'll even through in a box for a problem eater if they don't find the racks themselves cave-like enough. 

They like it, I like it. I will not put my animals into a stressful environment for the sake of looking nice. 

They stay eating all the time, they handle better (since they're not stressed outside of being held), they never have a shed problem, and if I want to see their beauty I just slide the bin out and pick them right up. :Good Job:

----------


## theturtlepond

I started out mine in tanks and went to tubs in a rack. I have one snake that doesn't seem to like it so I will be moving her to a larger tank after the breeding season. Not to metion that display tanks for the common person are "Fish" tanks. They aren't ment for snakes, and don't work very well. Tubs may not be meant for them either but the work way better.

----------


## sarahlovesmiike

> I think you all know I hate it when snakes have to live in plastic bins. For those who just have a snake or two I want to make a poll to find out if you made a nice comfy habitat for your snake to live in or you dump it in plasticwear for convience sake.


You know saying things like this isn't going to help you convince people to switch to tanks, it's going to convince people to only answer your negative posts. What happens if you need help with something and no one wants to answer you because you're quite rude? 

We don't "dump our snakes in Tupperware for convenience sake", we put our snakes in the habitat that works best for them. Now, whether that's a 55 gallon tank, a 34 qt tub, or a professionally made cage, it's up to the snake. Only an irresponsible pet owner would keep their ball python in an enclosure that they don't feel secure in. You need to get a feel for the individual snake before you come to a conclusion of what will work best.

----------

_angllady2_ (04-17-2010),Charlie And Lucy (04-17-2010),_cinderbird_ (04-17-2010),dr del (04-17-2010),Foschi Exotic Serpents (04-19-2010),NotaMallard (04-19-2010)

----------


## David802

> I think you all know I hate it when snakes have to live in plastic bins. For those who just have a snake or two I want to make a poll to find out if you made a nice comfy habitat for your snake to live in or you dump it in plasticwear for convience sake.
> 
> Breeders don't have to reply. That's a whole different thing.
> 
> For those how use a habitat you can post pictures here too if you want.


This is directed at your other post as well talking about wild snakes having a choice as well but I can't be bothered to go find it. I really am surprised that I waisted enough of my time typing this.

I am curious to know if you actually have a phd in animal psychology or are you just making assumptions here as to what the snake prefers, or even better did your snakes come out and tell you " Arsinoe I cant stand those small scranny tubs I want a nice big open enclosure that allows me to roam and be free and forget the fact that I'm a confined animal in a small enclosure that had no choices in my life, even though I Feel threatened in large open spaces and don't have a large enough brain to recognize the difference between Africa and the bin in my owners bedroom".

Also if its so wrong to put a snake in a tub then why are breeders excluded from your arrogant rant? How many snakes do I need to get before its ok to "dump them in plasticwear for convience"... 15 maybe or how about a nice even 50 that's a nice round even number. Are you planning on forming the "No trashy cheep plastic tubs for lazy owners coalition" are you going to  start recruiting members and making laws about how I can handle my pet in my home? As long as the snakes comfortable, eating, crapping and shedding why is it any of your business. 

Before I get more irritated about your attitude let me throw in that my Medusa lives in a 64 quart plastic tub. However, I plan on getting more snakes and don't have room to put the 12-15 snakes I'd like to one day own in there own individual tubs so eventually I'll be moving to a "plasticwear for convience" set up. I don't care if you think housing snakes in plastic tubs is wrong. If you don't want to do it then more power to you. But HOW DARE YOU try talking down to someone else and judge them because of the setup they chose for there snake! Maybe if you got off your high horse you'd realize that there are a TON of really good reasons to house BP's in tubs, and just because it doesn't conform to your idea of whats right doesn't make it wrong! 

There I've had my angry rant about your attitude and arrogance. I'm done now, I don't want to turn this into a flaming war but seriously! If you want to know how many beginners/single snake owners house there snakes in tubs V habitats then ask that. There is no reason to act superior about it.

----------

Charlie And Lucy (04-17-2010),Foschi Exotic Serpents (04-19-2010),jonnydanger (04-19-2010),Marc from CT (04-19-2010)

----------


## BuckeyeBalls

> If you want to know how many beginners/single snake owners house there snakes in tubs V habitats then ask that. There is no reason to act superior about it.


Best part of that whole speech  :Good Job:

----------


## 771subliminal

20 gal tank = 30" long x 12" wide x 10" tall
35qt tub = 24 1/2L x 17 3/4W x 7 1/8H  
bps are not climbing snakes so how tall the tank is really not important as long as they can fit comfortably. even if they were a tub is loseing less than 3" 

so
20 gal tank = 30" long x 12" wide = 360" sq
35qt tub = 24 1/2L x 17 3/4W = 434 7/8" sq

people like to get the clear tubs so everything is equal there
tubs also get water bowls, and hides same as tanks some people even put plants and things in the tubs but lets be honest the snake doesnt care if it has pretty pink flowers to look at you do.

so lets recap here if i keep them in a tank that is 360" sq your fine with that but if i put them in a tub that is 434" sq your not? why not they would have more floor space to move around in. plus its easier to keep tubs right where the snake likes it.


personally if i could find a house with more sq ft that cost less and was easier to keep it climate controlled to the way that i like it i would jump on it in a second.

oh and i couldnt vote cuz i use sterilite not tupperwear :Good Job:

----------

_BuckeyeBalls_ (04-17-2010),Foschi Exotic Serpents (04-19-2010),_jben_ (04-17-2010),wolfy-hound (04-21-2010)

----------


## BuckeyeBalls

> 20 gal tank = 30" long x 12" wide x 10" tall
> 35qt tub = 24 1/2L x 17 3/4W x 7 1/8H  
> bps are not climbing snakes so how tall the tank is really not important as long as they can fit comfortably. even if they were a tub is loseing less than 3" 
> 
> so
> 20 gal tank = 30" long x 12" wide = 360" sq
> 35qt tub = 24 1/2L x 17 3/4W = 434 7/8" sq


Math ftw i didnt go that deep into it here like i did before with the rats but  :Good Job:  :Good Job:

----------


## seeya205

I had two snakes in 20 long tanks and spent alot of money on them!  My female was always so stressed and always snappy.  I got a third snake so I have no room for 3 tanks so I build a rack with 41 quart tubs and she seems alot happier and does eat very well and is no longer snappy and it's only been a few days!

20 long is 30x12
41 quart is 30x18

So they actually got larger enclosures now and I no longer have to mist them!  I believed like you until I tried a rack and they are much easier to maintain and keep temps/humidity at proper levels.  I  think if it is easier to maintain proper husbandry then the snakes are happier with it being steady all the time!  Now I have room in my house!!!

----------


## seeya205

By the way, tupperware keeps them fresher!!!  :Wink:

----------

Foschi Exotic Serpents (04-19-2010)

----------


## ALTownsend1

> by the way, tupperware keeps them fresher!!!


 :sploosh:

----------


## boafa

I just dump um all in Tupperware.......and check on em every couple of months

----------

4theSNAKElady (04-17-2010),Foschi Exotic Serpents (04-19-2010),rabernet (04-17-2010),Seru1 (04-17-2010)

----------


## Argentra

The main thing to remember is that all snakes are different! Each one will react differently to housing, so you just have to place the snake in whatever they do best in - be that tub, tank, or fancy enclosure. No one of those is 'Right', and no one is 'Wrong'...it's whatever is best for the snake.

Personally, I never had any luck with tubs - singly or in a rack. I tried both (heck, I've tried every type of housing over the years), and could never keep the temperatures stable, or the humidity where it needed to be. I tried more holes, less holes, aspen, paper, tall tubs and short tubs... NEVER could get anything to work and my snakes were miserable. I had more feeding refusals in tubs than any other housing.
Tanks, on the other hand, have always worked for me. I still have my two male BPs, both over 700g, in 20gal long tanks and they are SO happy in there.  :Smile:  The temps always stay within 2 degrees of where they should be, the humidity is great, and they look wonderful. The only reason I don't have all my snakes in tanks...is because you can't stack them.  :Smile:  
To that end, I have the other 5 of my snakes (corns and BPs) in homemade cages. They work almost as well as tanks, can be stacked, and are much lighter than glass.  :Smile:  FYI they look really nice too. I will never, ever, go back to tubs...but I do not condemn those who use them.

So, the moral here is this: People will use whatever housing works best for them AND the snakes. There is no ideal...there is only what is best in each situation for each person.

----------


## Charlie And Lucy

2 of ours are in tanks, one is in a tub. The tub is so much easier to maintain for the snake's needs. 

You may not agree with tubs, and we didn't either until we got our pastel. We aren't going to switch our other 2 over to tubs, but the snakes we get in the future will be in tubs. 

I understand that you don't agree with tubs, but like others have said, your not going to get much of a good response for your opinions about it, especially from people who feel tanks are wrong. People are very sensitive about their animals and can get extremely defensive if they feel they're being criticized for how they keep their pets.

----------


## rabernet

> I've never pretended to like bins for animals. Sure the tanks are more work, but they can have a better quality of life in then and not just exist in a plastic world. The wild guys at least have a choice to hide in a hole, but they also have the choice to come out when they want also. Pet snakes don't have any choices other than what we give them and I just do not agree in a sterile plasticine lifestyle for any living creature.
> 
>  Rant Over


How do YOU know that your snake has a better quality of life than my animals in tubs (and it's not Tupperwear, btw). 

I don't care if I were keeping a single animal - my very first was kept in a "habitat" and went on fast for eight solid months. The week after I "dumped" him into a properly set up tub where he felt more secure, he started to eat. Moved him back to the tank - fasted again, back to tub - ate every week. Which "quality of life" was better for him? 

You do manage to offend with your posts, quite often, by seeming to look down at those who choose to put their snake's needs before our own human desires to anthromorphize our animals and put human emotions and needs on them.

----------

Foschi Exotic Serpents (04-19-2010),wolfy-hound (04-21-2010)

----------


## Kaorte

I am curious as to how you determined how the snake feels about a tub vs a "comfy habitat". 

I keep all of my ball pythons in tubs. They are happy and healthy. That is all that matters to me. Having a pretty display does not matter to me and it does not matter to the snake. The snake will never know the difference.

----------

Foschi Exotic Serpents (04-19-2010)

----------


## redstormlax12

I will not vote on this poll either. Many people on here have made great points concering your jab at us who keeps our snakes in tubs. The thing is ball pythons like DARK TIGHT places. What does a tub in a rack provide? A dark, warm, humid environment. How ideal. To some point racks can be better than habitats, especially tanks! Glass lets heat out and the screen tops ruin chances at humidity, so to keep humidity up you have to put a rag over the top of tin foil. 

Please dont come on here and rag on us who keep our snakes in tubs. We are giving them an ideal environment, and you are no better than us just because you use a realistic enclosure. We love our snakes and wouldnt do anything that would not be beneficial to them.

----------


## angllady2

My mother has a term for people like you, you are a [poop] disturber.  

So what if you HATE snakes kept in plastic, that doesn't give you the right to come off as some sort of avenging angel condemning everyone who doesn't see things your way as a monster.  

I had two adult ball pythons I kept in tanks for over two years.  They never had a good shed, ate irregularly, were always crabby and snappish, and I thought that was just how things were.  Eventually, they got so un-manageable, I had to admit I was in over my head and found them a new home with owners who had more experience.

Over a year later I decided to try again with babies instead of adults. Tried the whole tank thing again.  Spent tons of time and money and started down the same road all over again.  Then I decided to see if there was something to the whole "tub" thing.  Goodness knows I always thought people who crammed their snakes into little tiny tubs were cruel.  Guess what?  My temps stabilized, humidity came up, snakes started feeding like clockwork, and suddenly became the sweetest snakes in the world.

Hmmmm, stick with expensive, hard-to-maintain tanks and have crabby snakes, or choose easy to maintain and much less expensive tubs and have loving, happy snakes.  Wasn't too hard of a decision for me.  If it makes my snakes happy, it makes me happy.  So tank, tub or doghouse, it makes no difference to me as long as they are happy.  Mine do better in tubs.  Some do better in tanks, There may even be one somewhere who does well in a doghouse for all I know.  But I don't go around trying to shove my opinion down everyone's throat.  

YOUR way of doing things isn't the best for everyone, nor do you have the right to tell people that it should be the only way.  You do what makes yours happy, and let me do what makes mine happy.

Gale

----------

Foschi Exotic Serpents (04-19-2010),NotaMallard (04-19-2010),Shock (04-18-2010)

----------


## David802

> Best part of that whole speech



I walked away and took a few deep breaths, then wrote that last part.  :Very Happy:  

I still stand by my original post, but simple and to the point is always better.  :Very Happy:

----------


## Stewart_Reptiles

I understand you are new to this but here are a few things about enclosures and keeping snakes

There is more than one way to successfully keep an animal as long as it's needs are met.Your (or my personal) like or dislike are irrelevant when it comes to keeping a snake what is relevant is that as owner you meet the needs of your animal and that your animal is healthy and eating with consistency.

----------

Foschi Exotic Serpents (04-19-2010),garweft (04-18-2010)

----------


## 4theSNAKElady

> I just dump um all in Tupperware.......and check on em every couple of months


 :sploosh:  I'm sorry....this just made me lol several times...

----------


## 4theSNAKElady

I think that if tubs were so bad and unappropriate for BPs, then the majority of owners, whether they owned 5 or 500  would have them in tanks, not tubs. But, the exact opposite is what occurs. The original decision to switch that was made a long time ago by keepers, was I'm sure, made with a lot of reasoning and logic behind it..... I personally switched from tanks to tubs for several reasons, but am nonetheless glad I did it. I did it with the snakes needs in mind, not for my own, or for aesthetic reasons.

----------


## Fish

My teacher had a ball python in a tank for a while. It *never* shed right and ate maybe once a month. he sold it and the new owner says it's doing great in it's new bin.

----------


## MissLeMew

If you think your way of doing things is so superior, then why post here? Go start your own message board where you and other people like yourself can sit on your thumbs, and talk about how awesome you are.

My snakes are in plastic, have been in plastic, and will _ALWAYS_ be in plastic because it is what is best for them. They never stress, I haven't had a snake fast yet, and they're eating, healthy and happy. Temps and humidity are spot on, and just because they're in plastic doesn't mean you can't give them realistic hides, plants, or anything else you feel like putting in there. Honestly, if the snake is happy with a bare naked bin with only a water bowl to sit in, that's fine with me too. The important thing is that the snake remains _happy_.

And why disclude breeders? They keep their snakes in plastic bins - just like keepers do - _and for all of the same reasons_. If you're looking down on keepers who keep snakes in bins, then you're doing it to breeders too, because the only difference between them and us IMO is that they breed and sell their snakes and have made a business out of their bp's. They enjoy their snakes just as much as keepers do, their snakes are as much of a hobby as keepers' are, and they keep their snakes in bins to keep their snakes happy just as keepers do.

It's for the welfare of the snake. If I ever come across a bp that feels better in a tank, then fine, that's what I'll do, but I haven't yet and I don't think I will.

If your snake is happy in a tank, then fine. Keep it happy, and keep it healthy. Just don't look down on the rest of us because of it, because our snakes are just as healthy and happy -- if not, then more so -- as yours is. You don't see people with bins talking down on you as if your way of doing things are inferior, so stop and think the next time you decide to be snarky.

Sorry if I sound like [a jerk], but _come on_.  :Taz:

----------

Foschi Exotic Serpents (04-19-2010),Shock (04-18-2010),wolfy-hound (04-21-2010)

----------


## Seru1

You know I have mine in a plastic cage right now, It's okay, but I am quickly learning why racks are popular for BP's


Thussly I am saving up money for a boaphile with tubs  :Razz:

----------

_CoolioTiffany_ (04-17-2010)

----------


## CoolioTiffany

Tubs can be as clear as the glass on tanks.  Why does it even matter that a snake's habitat is made out of plastic instead of glass?  That's where I'm getting confused upon.  It really makes no sense to where you're getting at.

You might dislike tubs, but many of us breeders and herpteculturists find tubs to be very helpful to use when keeping a large amount of snakes or even find it helpful if you only own one snake. 

It might not look as good, but really you should not care what it looks like if it makes the snake happier than you.  The snake is 100% dependent on you so that means you should give it the enclosure it will feel most secure and to where it keeps up with its requirements.

Most of us really won't change our mind on tubs.  I know I won't.  And I believe many BP.netters will agree with me when I say that you shouldn't be so negative about tubs and making threads on how they aren't good for snakes.  

If you wanna talk negatively about it then I suggest creating your own blog and ranting there instead of here.

----------


## dembonez

im sorry is this the third thread?

----------


## Pandora

I'm not surprised to see a vast majority of people on here go in favor of the tubs.

In my honest opinion, the tubs vs tanks option is just as subjective as people's taste in music or food, etc. etc... it's whatever works for the owner

My boyfriend and I live together and we've both got 2 ball pythons of our own. Personally, as a couple living in a 2-floor 3-bedroom house, we can afford the space to comfortably house 4 ball pythons in tanks, and manage to keep their temps and humidity regulated with little to no effort.

However, a lot of people who own several snakes, or breed snakes, would obviously need the convenience of a rack/tub system, and that's completely understandable.

In the argument of the snake's "happiness" with one or the other... I'm not so sure there's really much of a difference. Snakes are very basic-needs animals and as long as they've got heat, water, food, hides, a clean environment, and enough ground room to comfortably move around, I don't see the difference between plastic and glass. To be totally honest... by the sounds of it, that's exactly what's being argued.

Nobody who takes their animals as seriously as the owners on this website would sacrifice the fundamental needs of their pet by putting them in a tupperware container, if it really came down to that. However, that's not the case...

At the end of the day, if we're going to have an argument like this, let's start one on mozzarella vs. cheddar, and rock vs. rap... now THERE'S something to agrue  :Smile:

----------


## JLC

Thread closed temporarily for maintenance. Will re-open soon.

----------


## dr del

Hi,

Off-topic parts of this thread have been moved t the quarantine room and can now be found here.

If you wish access to the quarantine room please contact any member of the Admin team ( names in *red* in the userlist).


dr del

----------

JLC (04-18-2010)

----------


## 771subliminal

> Hi,
> 
> Off-topic parts of this thread have been moved t the quarantine room and can now be found here.
> 
> If you wish access to the quarantine room please contact any member of the Admin team ( names in *red* in the userlist).
> 
> 
> dr del


No Thread specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator

never mind :Cool:

----------


## Rorschach

I use 'tupperwear / TUPPERW*ARE*' and like it very much

I now have several tanks that I am unsure of what to do with. May start a gecko colony.

----------


## mrmertz

We use tanks, chief reason being we personally like to have them displayed. Going to get rid of our Exo tanks and step up to all AP's.

I'll take pics once I can get a few thousand scraped together to order them.

----------


## WakoNako

I only have the one BP right now and he's in a tank/habitat.

I'm not have difficulties with keeping temperature and humidity right.

The cool side of the tank is at 78-82 and the hot side varies between 90 and 95.

We have a small coconut hide on the warm side and then a fake vine on the other than he likes to curl up underneath.

I use an infrared lamp for heat so it can be left on at night on cool nights.

----------


## Kaorte

> I only have the one BP right now and he's in a tank/habitat.
> 
> I'm not have difficulties with keeping temperature and humidity right.
> 
> The cool side of the tank is at 78-82 and the hot side varies between 90 and 95.
> 
> We have a small coconut hide on the warm side and then a fake vine on the other than he likes to curl up underneath.
> 
> I use an infrared lamp for heat so it can be left on at night on cool nights.
> ...


Well if those are the thermometers you are using to measure your temps, then your temps are probably wrong :/

----------


## Argentra

Yep, those little stick on dial thermometers are worth squat! You need a digital thermometer with probe to accurately measure your temps...also, temps need to be measured at ground level, since that's where the snake spends all its time.  :Smile:

----------


## seeya205

> It might not look as good, but really you should not care what it looks like if it makes the snake happier than you.  The snake is 100% dependent on you so that means you should give it the enclosure it will feel most secure and to where it keeps up with its requirements.


Well said!  She feels superior because she has a pretty tank!  Open tanks cause more stress to a snake!  Who does that benefit?  Not the snake!

----------


## seeya205

> I only have the one BP right now and he's in a tank/habitat.
> 
> I'm not have difficulties with keeping temperature and humidity right.
> 
> The cool side of the tank is at 78-82 and the hot side varies between 90 and 95.
> 
> We have a small coconut hide on the warm side and then a fake vine on the other than he likes to curl up underneath.
> 
> I use an infrared lamp for heat so it can be left on at night on cool nights.


You are only going to get an ambient air temp with those being so high and not a very accurate reading!

----------


## WakoNako

Yep. I've learnt that from the good people on this forum.
I'm going to be adding digital thermometers lower down once i have the money.

I'll probably keep those in there though, he seems to like climbing on them during the night.

----------


## WingedWolfPsion

The two pet ball pythons in my home are in large sterilite bins.  Glass tanks are just inferior for making a good ball python viv.

If you want to go pricier, you could buy a Vision cage, or one of the other cages made of expanded PVC, etc.  They're all better choices than glass tanks, which are hard to keep warm and properly humidified.

----------


## unspecified42

When I just had one she was in a big glass tank. It was awful! She never shed properly because keeping it humid was a nightmare and I couldn't get a good temperature gradient.

----------


## jonnydanger

> I'm not surprised to see a vast majority of people on here go in favor of the tubs.
> 
> In my honest opinion, the tubs vs tanks option is just as subjective as people's taste in music or food, etc. etc... it's whatever works for the owner
> 
> My boyfriend and I live together and we've both got 2 ball pythons of our own. Personally, as a couple living in a 2-floor 3-bedroom house, we can afford the space to comfortably house 4 ball pythons in tanks, and manage to keep their temps and humidity regulated with little to no effort.
> 
> However, a lot of people who own several snakes, or breed snakes, would obviously need the convenience of a rack/tub system, and that's completely understandable.
> 
> In the argument of the snake's "happiness" with one or the other... I'm not so sure there's really much of a difference. Snakes are very basic-needs animals and as long as they've got heat, water, food, hides, a clean environment, and enough ground room to comfortably move around, I don't see the difference between plastic and glass. To be totally honest... by the sounds of it, that's exactly what's being argued.
> ...


I vote mozzarella..... just because i love string cheese..... haha oh and i refuse to vote on the container issue. I keep my boys in sterilite 34qts and they are both very content.... does tupperware make something big enough to put snakes in? hmmm..... i think im going to go buy some string cheese now. oh and ROCK all the way.

----------


## DarkSean

TBH space is space. You snake doesn't care if its in a lovely looking wooden viv, or a sacure tub. Aslong as they have somewhere warm and dark, a bowl of fresh water, a weekly meal and maybe something to climb on, I don't think they care.

Vivs are meerly for our benifit, they are nice to look at.

----------


## Eulogy13

> I've never pretended to like bins for animals. Sure the tanks are more work, but they can have a better quality of life in then and not just exist in a plastic world. The wild guys at least have a choice to hide in a hole, but they also have the choice to come out when they want also. Pet snakes don't have any choices other than what we give them and I just do not agree in a sterile plasticine lifestyle for any living creature.
> 
>  Rant Over


then put your snake in a glass tank or an African termite mound

----------


## WingedWolfPsion

I still want to see a custom Viv designed to look like a termite mound, lol.

----------


## Foschi Exotic Serpents

By Bob Clark. One of the leading snake specialists..

"While the main purpose of a cage is to contain the snake, it must also enclose a suitable environment for its inhabitant. Proper temperature and humidity levels are essential for maintaining a healthy ball python. The ball python comes from a more arid environment than most pythons. Even so, it still requires a fairly high level of humidity. Ball pythons spend most of their time in burrows where it's more likely to be a little damp. When they leave, it's usually at night when temperatures are cooler and the level of moisture in the air is greater. The wild snakes do not expose themselves to the dry conditions that their natural environment presents. In captivity, when given a choice, they will do the same."

http://www.bobclark.com/aAN_02.asp

Hmmm... They do not expose theirselves to their natural habitat in the wild.. Interesting... Maybe thats why the people that go hunting for BPs for export never find them anywhere other than in their burrow... 

Asthetically speaking, a "habitat" as you put it, is only for you. NOT the snake. Think realistically. A BP is actually going to be more nervous in an aquarium. Sure you can fill it with cool stuff to make it feel more secure but then you just made it into something for _you_ to look at. If your snake comes out alot when you can see it and roams around, this is a sign of stress for BPs. You're not talking about a retic here. 

You make it sound like a plastic tub is a horrible life and the snakes are not happy. That if they had a choice they would choose a tank over a tub.. _That_ my friend, is completely wrong. We dont care if you like it or not. People who own tree pythons have branches or cage perches for their snakes and foliage. Yes even the big breeders who have alot of them. Because they know it is what is best and most natural for the snake. Racks are not cruel and if those of us who have racks could read our snakes minds we would tell you that they are very happy and healthy. They feel safe, secure, they shed perfectly and they eat. SO please stop it with your loaded posts. We are aware of what you like and dont like. We are also aware of the natural history of these snakes and we know what is most comfortable and natural for them.

----------

_redstormlax12_ (04-19-2010),wolfy-hound (04-21-2010)

----------


## redstormlax12

> I've never pretended to like bins for animals. Sure the tanks are more work, but they can have a better quality of life in then and not just exist in a plastic world. The wild guys at least have a choice to hide in a hole, but they also have the choice to come out when they want also. Pet snakes don't have any choices other than what we give them and I just do not agree in a sterile plasticine lifestyle for any living creature.
> 
>  Rant Over


I dont believe you actually understand the workings of your snakes. Our snakes dont look at their tub, custom enclosure, or aquarium and think it is boring or aesthetically pleasing. All they really "want" is their needs met. They are survival machines. As long as their heat, humidity, privacy, space hunger, and thirst are met, they are pretty much perfectly content. Whether it is provided by a tank with a heat light or a rack with tubs and heat tape. Our snakes have almost no cognitive thought, and you need to realize that. If you think your snake is loving its enclosure because its roaming all the time, then you just have a stressed out BP as stated before. 

Our snakes, in reality, are just like new born babies. They dont care what their home looks like. Whether it be a cave, wooden shack or mansion, they just dont care. They are acting out of reflexes and instinct. They have little to no cognitive thought. As long as the babies and the snakes needs are met they are content. So we who keep our snakes in tubs are doing great things for our snakes. 

Dont come on here bashing us who use tubs. WE ARE DOING WHAT IS BEST FOR OUR SNAKES. No matter how much you disagree, plainly you are wrong in this instance. You are basically bashing a huge portion of the community. 

You are truly over anthropomorphising. You are treating your BP as if it was you. Your BP doesnt care what its enclosure looks like. All it needs is its needs met, and in your aquarium style habitats, their needs in the heat and humidity department are most likely fluctuating on a regular basis.

----------

wolfy-hound (04-21-2010)

----------


## Quiet Tempest

I used to believe that terrariums and the like were best for snakes, but I've since learned differently. I now house the majority of my snakes in tubs. They seem happier, if you can even guage a snake's happiness in terms we could understand. The snakes I house in tubs have silkier skin and just look better than the ones I keep in tanks. Those that are in tanks right now are only there because I don't have spare room in my rack at the moment.

----------


## viperbry

Regardless of my position on the matter, I am disturbed by the way this argument is taking place. The subjectiveness in judging where a snake is happier works both ways. I see a lot of pro-tub people saying that the snake is happier in a tub, and that the tank people are not really taking into account how the snake feels. To ridicule someone for trying to judge a snake's feelings (or ignore them), and then make an assumption that your method is actually what makes it happy, does not make much sense to me. Having just made a point that the tank people cannot possibly know what makes a snake happy, and then argue that you are better at providing that happiness, is a very flawed argument.

Trying to decide what the snake "likes" best is futile. 

At the same time, I think the language is what is holding me (and maybe everyone) up on this argument. I believe that when the pro-tub people talk about the snake's happiness they are trying to allude to their well-being, as opposed to emotional feelings. To me, the two camps are arguing either 1. two different things (emotional states v. physical well-being) or 2. the same thing, but in terms that the other side cannot (or refuses to) understand. I feel that we cannot have a meaningful discussion on the matter until the bases for assessing the well-being are objective, as well as defined. Until this happens, we are just sitting here spinning the proverbial wheels.

--

Rhetoric aside, I do not see the difference between the two if you can maintain the snake's well-being and quality of life. 

My Bottom line: As long as you can provide things like proper temperature gradient, humidity, snug shelter, water, etc.  that closely approximate what the snake's physiology and instinctual behavior can take advantage of, the construction and composition of the container does not matter.

----------

_Argentra_ (04-20-2010),_Wh00h0069_ (04-20-2010)

----------


## JLC

> Rhetoric aside, I do not see the difference between the two if you can maintain the snake's well-being and quality of life. 
> 
> My Bottom line: As long as you can provide things like proper temperature gradient, humidity, snug shelter, water, etc.  that closely approximate what the snake's physiology and instinctual behavior can take advantage of, the construction and composition of the container does not matter.


 :Good Job:   :Good Job:   :Good Job: 
Exactly!

----------


## Wh00h0069

> At the same time, I think the language is what is holding me (and maybe everyone) up on this argument. I believe that when the pro-tub people talk about the snake's happiness they are trying to allude to their well-being, as opposed to emotional feelings. To me, the two camps are arguing either 1. two different things (emotional states v. physical well-being) or 2. the same thing, but in terms that the other side cannot (or refuses to) understand. I feel that we cannot have a meaningful discussion on the matter until the bases for assessing the well-being are objective, as well as defined. Until this happens, we are just sitting here spinning the proverbial wheels.


I am refering to the snakes well-being. I personally do not think that snakes have feelings, so can't be happy or sad.

----------


## Argentra

You can have the proper environment (and this includes temps, humidity, and hiding places) in a tub, a tank, AND a fancy cage! Period. 

Tubs are not 'evil' or 'bad' for snakes. But neither are tanks. It can all work IF you put the right work and care into making them proper homes for a BP. The whole issue here, other than the 'feelings' thing which is moot, is aesthetics...and it shouldn't be an issue. Yes, it's nice to have a pretty cage with real plants and fancy hides, but most BPs just don't need or want that. 
The most important thing to think of when readying a home for a BP, be it tub, tank, or cage, is getting it to hold the things that snake needs most - i.e. proper stable temperatures, the right level of humidity, and good secure hiding spots. 

Now please... stop bashing each other and calling 'Tubs rule', or 'Tanks are the only way' and let's get back to some good snake keeping.

----------


## reixox

I do use tanks. However, as long as my little guys are shedding in one piece, eating regularly and healthy I don't see the need to change it. If the quality of life I'm trying to provide hinders I wouldn't hesitate to change to tubs.

IMHO, both are a great choice as long as you can provide what the snake needs.  :Smile:

----------


## Foschi Exotic Serpents

I too believe that tanks and cages can be made into a good environment. In the 2 threads I posted in I made that clear. My problem is bashing the people who do use tubs. Those of us who use them dont bash people who do not. As long as the BPs needs are met like stated before. So why bash us? I was showing why tubs are not bad at all and even very beneficial.

----------


## Arsinoe

> You can have the proper environment (and this includes temps, humidity, and hiding places) in a tub, a tank, AND a fancy cage! Period. 
> 
> Tubs are not 'evil' or 'bad' for snakes. But neither are tanks. It can all work IF you put the right work and care into making them proper homes for a BP. The whole issue here, other than the 'feelings' thing which is moot, is aesthetics...and it shouldn't be an issue. Yes, it's nice to have a pretty cage with real plants and fancy hides, but most BPs just don't need or want that. 
> The most important thing to think of when readying a home for a BP, be it tub, tank, or cage, is getting it to hold the things that snake needs most - i.e. proper stable temperatures, the right level of humidity, and good secure hiding spots. 
> 
> Now please... stop bashing each other and calling 'Tubs rule', or 'Tanks are the only way' and let's get back to some good snake keeping.


Please pay attention---I don't include breeders in the tub debate. It's usually stated that way in the begining. Breeders, especially large ones don't have the option.

----------


## Skiploder

> I think you all know I hate it when snakes have to live in plastic bins. For those who just have a snake or two I want to make a poll to find out if you made a nice comfy habitat for your snake to live in or you dump it in plasticwear for convience sake.
> 
> Breeders don't have to reply. That's a whole different thing.
> 
> For those how use a habitat you can post pictures here too if you want.


How's living under a bridge working out for you?

----------

_zackw419_ (04-21-2010)

----------


## Argentra

> Please pay attention---I don't include breeders in the tub debate. It's usually stated that way in the begining. Breeders, especially large ones don't have the option.


I believe that must have been a misquote...since I never mentioned breeders being in or out. I think that anyone, breeder with 100 snakes or newbie with 1, can keep their snakes in any home if it's set up properly.

----------


## snakesRkewl

I switched to tubs shortly after the first snake I owned.
With all the hassle of bad shedding and issues with keeping the temperatures where they should be I finally gave up and went to tubs.
My snakes have eaten WAY better, shed WAY better, and seemed WAY happier than any I kept in tanks.
Tanks may look nice, but in general are too tough to maintain proper husbandry in for ball pythons.

Even if I only owned one ball python I'd use a tub  :Wink:

----------


## BeastMaster

It's a shame everyone takes such an immediate defensive attitude toward how they choose to keep their snakes. After-all, it is a personal decision based on what the keeper believes is the best housing he/she can (or chooses to) provide. That will maintain the ideal environment for the particular species of snake being kept. 

There is a lot that can be said and it is because we live in a country with freedom of speech, that everyone can have their own opinion. Perception is different with everybody and the only person that is upset by another persons comments is the one that perceives the comment to be a direct assault towards them or their methods. In this manner, they are questioning themselves and allowing someone else (who may or may not possess similar knowledge) to make them think they could somehow be wrong. The biggest difficulty most people face is overcoming their own egos. This is not intended to be criticism, but is instead intended to point out the simplicity that we often overlook.

 :twocents:  Now for my opinion: I think plastic is much easier for me to maintain because I do not have a dedicated "snake room" with regulated temp/humidity. I also believe it is easier for me to clean because of the lighter (than glass) weight of the enclosure. I almost forgot, it is pretty easy for me to drill holes in plastic to run wires for lighting or temperature probes, or for additional venting to maintain proper humidity levels.

I however, prefer the look of display style housing, but my snakes could probably care less since they only see the inside of their hides anyway  :Sleep:  This is easily remedied for me by any of several vendors that offer such housing for sale for a reasonable fee. The same vendors also offer other plastic style housing for a similar fee as well. If I were a breeder or had a larger collection (as others do), I might opt for a more efficiently designed way to house many reptiles comfortably and worry less about what it looked like for me.

The greatest part about having the freedom of choice, is using it  :Salute:

----------


## Crazy4Herps

I'm not necessarily against either, as long as the snake is given ample space. (The only sort of enclosure I am against is glass.) Tubs are practical and easily maintained. I do prefer habitats simply because my babies are so gorgeous and I love showing them off.  :Very Happy:   :Very Happy:

----------

