# Ball Pythons > BP Breeding >  What's this??

## JimmyLindberg

Hi, I cut my first clutch for this year today and I was a bit surprised when i cut one egg, I didn't know what was in it, could you help me out?

/Jimmy

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## JimmyLindberg

It's the one to the left

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## aalomon

What was the pairing?

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_hoax_ (05-16-2011)

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## JimmyLindberg

lemon pastelX Normal

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## LizardPants

Dear Sir,

Those are ball pythons.

Regards,

LizardPants

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_Anya_ (05-12-2011),_hoax_ (05-16-2011),_loonunit_ (05-01-2011),_purplemuffin_ (05-14-2011),_Quiet Tempest_ (05-12-2011),_shelliebear_ (04-30-2011),_Skittles1101_ (05-04-2011),_thedarkwolf25_ (05-12-2011)

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## dr del

Hi,

What day did you cut on and what were the incubation temps?


dr del

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## LotsaBalls

I would guess a pastel.

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## Juliemay13

> Dear Sir,
> 
> Those are ball pythons.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> LizardPants


Cute...heh  :Smile:

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## DemmBalls

looks like you may have cut them a little too early.  The pigmentation doesn't seem fully developed.  They almost look hypo to me.

P.S. That snake on the left does look awesome though!  I'm gonna say it's a great looking pastel!

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## Xan Powers

it looks pastel to me and that they might have been cut to early. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk. Xan Powers!

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## cinderbird

I want to know whats going on with the top right, personally.

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_Anatopism_ (05-05-2011),_hoax_ (05-16-2011)

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## Luke Martin

That's a belly....

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## JimmyLindberg

They were cut on day 55 and the temperature in the incubator has been between  30.5-31 Celsius all the time.

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## dr del

Hmmm,

Those incubation temps are a little low so I agree they are still developing the colour.

I would keep spraying the eggs lightly every day to prevent them drying out and to wash out any scum or film that develops.

Keep us posted on how they develop - it's not something most people get to see.  :Smile: 


dr del

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## JimmyLindberg

The reason why I'm asking is because of the unusual pattern on the snake to the left, I've hatched a few pastels before and none of them have had that pattern....

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## Aes_Sidhe

yep pattern is quite unusual almost Spider-ish looking... but that could be because of lover incubation temp... sometimes crazy stuff pop up from normals breeding when ppl mess with temps (to low or too high) ... Keep us posted and  Show us them when they hatch completely... Picture of parents will be nice as well... 
Good luck  :Good Job:

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## JimmyLindberg

The temperature hasn't been to cold has it? Last season I incubated all the eggs at the same temperature and cut them open on day 55, why has this happened this time?

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## seeya205

I was thinking it looked like a Spider but that would be impossible!  The one on the right looks like a very interesting pattern!

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_hoax_ (05-16-2011)

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## sookieball

seriously the one on the right is the one i'd be questioning!!

update us with pics pleeeeezzz!!!

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## RichsBallPythons

86-88 is perfectly fine to incubate and at day 55 your color is in. Most fully develop their color beofre day 50 as most mine are piping at day 50-52 incubated at 87.9

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## Luke Martin

By first glance I thought lesserbee on the top left...was the normal female a virgin or has she been bred before?

And I don't understand the interest in the top right?  The snake is upside down...what's the questionablility about it?

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_Aes_Sidhe_ (04-30-2011)

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## Aes_Sidhe

> By first glance I thought lesserbee on the top left...was the normal female a virgin or has she been bred before?
> 
> And I don't understand the interest in the top right?  The snake is upside down...what's the questionablility about it?


Hmm Sperm retaining from previous breeding cross my mind as well....

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## JimmyLindberg

Nope, she was a virgin all-right until he bred her and she has never laid eggs or been with another male earlier. The male is a 05' lemon pastel and is very a prooven breeder, since he's the ancestor to almost all the lemon pastels in Sweden..
I don't think it's possible that he's bred another female which had been bred with another male and in some way obtained the other male's sperm, that's impossible.

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## Aes_Sidhe

We will wait for updated pictures with great impatience  :Taz: 

Edit: and Just in case Can we have pictures of parents ??? please pretty please  :Please:

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## Misfit

Maybe the female normal was a really, really, reeeaally browned out pastel and that's a super....?

I have no idea/experience, so that's really a stretch.  :Razz:  But it'd be pretty nifty.

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## JimmyLindberg

Here's pictures of their parents:
The first one is the Pastel-father and the second is the Normal-mother

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## Aes_Sidhe

ooowooooowww  :Surprised:  easy there... mother is not just normal.... Is nice banned/reduced pattern... and i dont think so that is the case here... but.... she looks.... almost........  like Super extra dirty Enchi... what color eyes are on her ???

Edit: Ok maybe with that enchi I'll go too far but... genetic reduced pattern could explain what You have there.....

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_hoax_ (05-16-2011)

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## seeya205

I know it's impossible for the parents to be Het Spider but it really looks like a Spider!  Can't wait to see it out of the egg!

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## Aes_Sidhe

Mkay this is dont let me sleep so i do some research and i found picture of "dirty" enchi.. anybody see resemblance to Mother on Picture OP provide??



and That Adult Enchi + Pastel From Worldofballpythons.com



do You see similarity Guys and Girls ??

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## JimmyLindberg

Of course I see some resemblance, but the "normal"-mother doesn't have quite the characteristics of an enchi. She doesn't have any "enchi"-colours at all. But I'm not sure....

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## Aes_Sidhe

I know and please dont understand me wrong.. i dont wanna put any false hope in you ... I'm just very intrigued....  Please provide us pictures of that little fellow when he/she came out from the egg  :Very Happy:

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## JimmyLindberg

Ill definately do that, but I'm just curious of what it is, it doesn't look like a normal and not like a pastel either....this is strange...let's just hope that it'll be okay.

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## loonunit

I see the banding you're reacting to on the Mom, but there's not enough of it to make an enchi. And definitely not enough color. 

But yeah, sure, something could be going on. Let's see what comes out of the eggs first.

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## JimmyLindberg

Just a quick update on the eggs: There seems to be 3 normals and 5 pastels in this clutch..great odds. And when it comes to the strange looking baby, it's alive, and seems to have a very reduced pattern at the tail.

Whoa, there sure seems to be an interest in this thread...+2000 wiews, amazing :Surprised:

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## JimmyLindberg

Here's another pic of the little baby, here it's laying in a different position

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## Amon Ra Reptiles

Wow exciting clutch ! Can't wait to see them out of the egg.

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## JasonG

Looks like they were cut early if you ask me.... but then again op said they werent... so i dunno...

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## SlitherinSisters

Huh, I would have guessed that they were cut really early too. I can't wait to see them out of the egg!

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## Failshed

Grats on something interesting! I have the mother of my first clutch that looks similar to your female... Not quite as banded but reduced pattern. 

Here are some pics of her. http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...60#post1535260

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## LunaBalls

Really nice! Keep us updated with the pics please.

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## PweEzy

If they were cut on day 55 and that was 4/29, this is day 61!!! They gotta be out by now, you are killin us with anticipation jimmy!

I'm thinking its an awesome reduced pattern pastel. Those are the best kind!

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## ClarkT

No Kidding!!! Where are the baby pics!?!?

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## LizardPants

Edit: retracted by the department of redundancy department. - LizardPants

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## bplover21

DUDE, WHERE'S THE PICS???  :Taz:  :Taz:  :Taz:  :Taz:

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## ClarkT

They may not be out of the egg yet...I HATE waiting for them to get out of the eggs!!!!!

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## psychophobia

where the update????i want to see the baby come out from the egg!!!dont make me wait any longer.

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## JimmyLindberg

Sorry, they aren't out off their eggs yet. Not a single one has even showed any attempt to get out off it, I'm beginning to be worried that they'll die inside their eggs. But all off them are still moving and so, but none of them wants to come out....What should I do??

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## aalomon

What day did you cut (sorry if you already said)? Do they look dry at all? There really isnt much you can do besides making sure the eggs stay hydrated.

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## JimmyLindberg

Day 55, the eggs aren't dry at all and I've showered them a few times to make sure that they stay hydrated,

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## Twisted Reptiles

With your incubation temps being a little on the low side its not unexpected for them to take a bit longer for them to come out.   If my math is right you should be on Day 63 or so now, I would expect them to pip and start coming out in the next few days.

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## JimmyLindberg

I sure hope so

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## Mattinho

Any news yet?  :Smile:

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## Boxerblue25

Are they out? Where are the pics

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## JimmyLindberg

Like I said in my previous post, they haven't decided to come out yet, buuuuut.....................................one of the babys has decided to stick his nose out off the egg. That's the newest information I can give you.

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## JimmyLindberg

Well, now it seems like one of the babys has died..... :Sad: . When we had a quick look at the eggs today outside their incubator we saw that all of the ball pythons were moving a bit, but one of the snakes wasn't moving, we tried to touch it gently but no response. We saw that it laid in a strange position and was the only one that didn't do anything when we looked at them. 
It's a pastel so we're pretty sad right now. But the good news are that the others have decided to at least start looking out from their eggs. The weird one is still just laying there,waiting..

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## python_addict

thats bad news im sorry to hear that hopefully the one you are waiting for makes up for the lost one  :Sad:  i wish you luck with the rest

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## RichsBallPythons

> Well, now it seems like one of the babys has died...... When we had a quick look at the eggs today outside their incubator we saw that all of the ball pythons were moving a bit, but one of the snakes wasn't moving, we tried to touch it gently but no response. We saw that it laid in a strange position and was the only one that didn't do anything when we looked at them. 
> It's a pastel so we're pretty sad right now. But the good news are that the others have decided to at least start looking out from their eggs. The weird one is still just laying there,waiting..


Did you take the snake out of its egg or leave it be.

Ive had a male last year do this. hardly any movements at all. I left him be and he came out day later than the others.

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## JimmyLindberg

I left it in the egg, so there might still be a chance...

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## Oneyoungman

Sorry about the possibly lost one  :Sad: , but the rest peeking out seems very promising  :Very Happy:

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## Kymberli

Hopefully the non-responsive one is just messing with you.  :Hmm: 
Good luck on the rest, I can't wait to see the update.

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## JimmyLindberg

I'll take some pictures tonight of the ones that's stuck their heads out.
Tonight here in Sweden means early afternoon for you americans..

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## DemmBalls

To me...It definitely sounds like you cut too early.  Hopefully the one that is not moving is ok.  Good luck.

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## RichsBallPythons

> To me...It definitely sounds like you cut too early.  Hopefully the one that is not moving is ok.  Good luck.



did you read whole thread. They were cut on day 55 at 87-88F which is perfectly fine and wont cause this problem.

Most pip on their own by day 50-54 at 88F

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## DemmBalls

> did you read whole thread. They were cut on day 55 at 87-88F which is perfectly fine and wont cause this problem.
> 
> Most pip on their own by day 50-54 at 88F


I read the whole thread, but they were cut on 4/29 and are still in the egg?  Something about that seems odd to me.  Maybe the T-Stat or thermometer were reading incorrectly?

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## JimmyLindberg

Here's a picture of the first one out: A Lemon Pastel with it's umbilical cord twisted around it, we read a lot of threads and then cut it like they did and it seems to be comletely ok.
Let's hope for the best....the others are starting to peek out too..

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## Kymberli

What a tease, just one has come out for photos.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  
I'd never seen a BP come out of the egg with it's umbilical cord wrapped around it... I learn something new every day. Lol  :Smile:

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## Mattinho

Congrats... looks like a nice one too. Like the striping!

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## PweEzy

Looking good! Was that the top left one in question? The pattern looks about right. I bet that little booger will be nice and bright after its first shed!

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## JimmyLindberg

Nope, the weird one is still in the egg, it's still super bright and super reduced...it's awesome :Very Happy:

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## PweEzy

> Nope, the weird one is still in the egg, it's still super bright and super reduced...it's awesome


cool beans!

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## dr del

Hi,

Is it just my idiocy or does that have waaaay too white a head to be a simple lemon pastel?  :Confused: 


dr del

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_angllady2_ (05-10-2011)

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## Cendalla

> Hi,
> 
> Is it just my idiocy or does that have waaaay too white a head to be a simple lemon pastel?


X2  :Good Job:

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## Aes_Sidhe

> Hi,
> 
> Is it just my idiocy or does that have waaaay too white a head to be a simple lemon pastel? 
> 
> 
> dr del


x3

As I said before... mommy is not "normal" somethin is goin on here  :Very Happy: 

Lets everybody turn to page 3 and take a look at mom one more time.. I still think She is very very very dirty Enchi...

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## JimmyLindberg

We are in for something new here, like the title said; "What's this?"
We just have to wait and see, I'm close to just dragging the little weirdo out of it's egg, but it will be out anyday now.

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## mpkeelee

Now ill be at work pushing my red sox updates aside just to come and check for updated pics.

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## Cendalla

> Now ill be at work pushing my red sox updates aside just to come and check for updated pics.


I know! This has been some great daytime drama. I keep coming back. We all have our fingers crossed that everything will be ok! They're kinda like BP.net's sweethearts. What an exciting clutch :Very Happy:

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## LotsaBalls

Very excited for you, also because I have a girl that (IMO) could be a twin with yours that is due to lay in about two weeks. I bred her to a butter though. I have no history on her as I got her kind of as a rescue about four years ago. I have a picture of her in my avatar.

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## JimmyLindberg

Here it is, an updated pic of the Lemon Pastel that hatched yesterday. It has pretty neat colours...

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## Aes_Sidhe

> Here it is, an updated pic of the Lemon Pastel that hatched yesterday. It has pretty neat colours...


Damn with that wash out head and that Bright he looks more like super than regular pastel

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_shelliebear_ (05-19-2011)

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## CLSpider

I don't think it's just a pastel or super pastel....
White head, gorgeous bright stripe going down the middle, the body doesn't look blushed out...in fact, it only looks deep black & a beautiful yellow
Whatever they are, they're gorgeous! And I can't wait until that "weird" one comes out.

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## dr del

Hi,

It might not be a bad idea to send the pic (and pics of the parents ) to Kevin at N.E.R.D. - maybe the EvilMorphgod has seen something similar?  :Please: 


dr del

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_Aes_Sidhe_ (05-11-2011)

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## Kymberli

The anticipation is frustrating..  :Hmm:

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## JimmyLindberg

Another picture...

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## xFenrir

Ughh, I wanna see the rest of this clutch!!
That Lemon pastel looks fabulous.

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## JimmyLindberg

This is the only one that's outside it's egg....All the other ones have just showed their faces..

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## Aes_Sidhe

Jimmy can You take few more pictures of mama in good light including Head Shot (eye color) and belly Shot ?? maybe some of our users gonna put some more light on that mystery... besides like I said before very very very dirty Enchi......Specter comes to mind as well..

This is Pastel Specter Photo from worldofballpythons.com morph list :


Is a lot of similarities... wash out head.. Stripe.. some parts of stripe melting to the side...

But That's of course my guessing game...

Anyway next year I'll definitely bred her to Yellow Belly ad see what will pop up  :Good Job:

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## JimmyLindberg

Pictures of the mother:

Eyes:

Pattern: 

Belly:

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## purplemuffin

That baby is INSANE!!! Those parents must have some GOOD GENES! Awesome! I can't wait to see the rest! 

I've heard that reduced pattern normals can pass on those genetics to their babies, but this girl seems to be passing on something awesome! That head on the baby is like pure white, plus the weird patterned baby is something else!

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## abi21491

> Jimmy can You take few more pictures of mama in good light including Head Shot (eye color) and belly Shot ?? maybe some of our users gonna put some more light on that mystery... besides like I said before very very very dirty Enchi......Specter comes to mind as well..
> 
> This is Pastel Specter Photo from worldofballpythons.com morph list :
> 
> 
> Is a lot of similarities... wash out head.. Stripe.. some parts of stripe melting to the side...
> 
> But That's of course my guessing game...
> 
> Anyway next year I'll definitely bred her to Yellow Belly ad see what will pop up


I think you're onto something there. First pic of mom I was thinking Yellow Belly, but after seeing her belly shot definitely not a YB. She is probably something more similar to the Het Puma, which is compatible with YB and Specter... You can see pics of Het Pumas and Specters (and belly shots) on Albey's page here...

http://www.albeysreptiles.com/ball_col.htm

I'd be putting that girl to an Ivory in the future.

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## Aes_Sidhe

Mkay from What I see now definitely not Enchi..... Any Specter Expert ???

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## Mattinho

She has definatly passed on the reduced pattern but that head blushing is amazing!
I have a female that looks like the mums twin lol near enough the same pattern  :Razz: 

Any new shots of the reduced babie and some better pics of the little one out of the egg?

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## JimmyLindberg

So, quick update....Another snake has died, a normal..the weird one is still laying inside the egg looking at me, I think it laughs at my misfortune...

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## Aes_Sidhe

> So, quick update....Another snake has died, a normal..the weird one is still laying inside the egg looking at me, I think it laughs at my misfortune...


That's a Bummer... Hopefully he gonna make it... I'll keep my finger crossed  :Good Job:

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## fonzi1289

Sub'd for updates

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## Failshed

Amazing looking baby. How many more are still in the egg?

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## Freakie_frog

Looks like a Pastel Spotnose to me..but that's just me.

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## JimmyLindberg

5 babys are still inside their eggs....

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## Amon Ra Reptiles

wow this is takin forever lol. Can't wait to see that beauty out of the egg. 

Ps . Tell them all of us over here in the states say hurry it up lmao

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## xFenrir

> Ps . Tell them all of us over here in the states say hurry it up lmao


x2

I think they know how impatient we are and are staying in their eggs on purpose.  :Mad:

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## JimmyLindberg

Great news!! 3 "Normals" and one "Pastel" are almost completely out off their eggs!! Just the little weird one left, still alive though..

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## dragonboy4578

That is good....Hopefully the strange one will make it for you..... :Good Job:

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## fonzi1289

PICS!!!! Please :Please:

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## Anya

Yes, lol, I think the suspense is killing us!!  :Very Happy:

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## JimmyLindberg

I just removed a normal, it looks healthy and weighed 50g, yay!!!
The other ones are halfway out, just the little weirdo left, it's alive and has grown a lot, I love the pattern. I'll probably upload some pics of the ones that are completely out of their eggs.

Let's pray for the weird patterned baby to survive. :Please:

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## fonzi1289

:Please:  Make it please! :Please:

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## JimmyLindberg

Well, it is a bright snake alright....
Here it finally shows it's true self!

Pic 1 is compared with pastel and normal:


Pic 2 is just a quick shot of it from the side...

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_Alexandra V_ (05-17-2011),Failshed (05-13-2011),_LotsaBalls_ (05-14-2011),_purplemuffin_ (05-14-2011),_Sarin_ (05-18-2011),_shelliebear_ (05-19-2011)

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## Orlandoflor

Amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you dont want ill get her!! LOL!!!

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## JimmyLindberg

Pretty, isn't it?

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## moravaguy

idk looks really super lol

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## BGdyl

Amazing!!!  :Surprised:   :Surprised:   :Surprised:  This is why I love breeding Ball Pythons! You just never know what might pop out of those eggs.

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## dr del

I'm telling ya,

I'd be sending those pics to NERD and Ralph Davis for their professional opinions - that head is even lighter than most superpastels.


dr del

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_shelliebear_ (05-19-2011)

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## JimmyLindberg

According to NERD, it's sibling is a Pastel.... I don't know if I believe them......... :Confused:

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## fonzi1289

That is insane!!
I thought pastels have green eyes??

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## alan1

with the parent/s coming from NERD
 could you have a fader gene kicking around in the clutch?

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## Carlene16

> According to NERD, it's sibling is a Pastel.... I don't know if I believe them.........


I'm with you on that... I don't think either of those are "normal".. the "pastel" is more exceptional than a regular pastel and that "super pastel" (which isn't even possible from the pairing??) is FANTASTIC... you've got something going on for sure!

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## JimmyLindberg

We'll just have to wait and see.
I don't know what to do...

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## JimmyLindberg

Anyone who wants to speculate what morph it is?

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## Orlandoflor

congrats you just found a new morph  :Dancin' Banana:  :Dancin' Banana:  :Dancin' Banana:  :Dancin' Banana:  :Dance:  :Pink Elephant:  :Dancing Carrot:  :Headbang:  :Party:  :Taz:  :Fest:  :Fest2:  :Dance:  :Dancing Carrot:  :Dancing Carrot:  :Rock on:  :Handshake:  :Eyepopping:  :Number1:  :Dancing Carrot:  :Party on:  :Fest2:  :Fest:  :Pink Elephant:  :Dance:  :Dancin' Banana:  :Dance:

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## Simple Man

Can you post pictures of the parents?

Regards,

B

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## JimmyLindberg

If you search throughout the whole thread you'll find pictures of the parents

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## Aes_Sidhe

As I've said Before... that look a lot like Specter/Pastel... Next year i definitely will breed Your female to  YB or Ivory even.. If you get Super Stripes.. You have your answer... :Good Job:  :Good Job:  :Good Job: 

Anyway regards of what that really is.. Big Congratulation on safe hatch and Good luck with them  :Cool:  :Good Job:  :Good Job:  :Good Job: 

P.S. Count of Views and Responses to this tread start getting insane  :ROFL:

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## TheReptileEnthusiast

Mom doesn't look anything like any specter I've seen. The babies don't look like pastel specters either. I was also thinking fader, since the fader gene varies greatly in it's expression.

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## TheReptileEnthusiast

Link to a fader pic at the NERD site:

http://www.newenglandreptile.com/car...ale-8-10f.html

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## PweEzy

> That is insane!!
> I thought pastels have green eyes??


Thats what I thought too. Whatever that thing is, looks awesome! I bet the color contrast as it ages will be awesome, congrats!! Maybe both of the parents were het for bad@$$!!!

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_Anya_ (05-14-2011)

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## fonzi1289

:ROFL: ^^^ :ROFL: 
 :Good Job:

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## MissDizzyBee

The mystery baby is so exciting.  :Smile:

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## Failshed

So awesome to see!

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## purplemuffin

Ohhhhh wow!! That baby is amazing!! You got some crazy stuff out of this pairing for SURE! Can't wait to watch these babies grow!  :Surprised:

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## jamesa2580

Jimmy-
Thanks for all the updates, pics, and info. You have a surprise, amazing clutch for sure and I would agree with Dr.Del. Send to Ralph and see what he says. There are some super cool genetics at play here and you are the lucky breeder who gets to work with them!

Many congrats

Jim

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## Anya

Sooo beautiful!! I'm SO glad the little guy made it!!


I...want....

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## Ch^10

Congrats on the amazing clutch!

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## JimmyLindberg

Thank's for all your answers!!

I asked Ralph Davis and he thought something like enchi, pastel or fader... so we still don't know...
By the way I don't think it's going to make it, it looks very tired and is barely moving when I touch it.......

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## Homegrownscales

Congrats that baby looks insane!! I have no idea what's going on with him, he's so much different than any other pastel baby I've seen. He even Looks different that the supers I've seen. I have No idea what's going on. My mind is now blown. Hold him back for sure. You're one lucky guy

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## dr del

Aww,  :Sad: 




> Thank's for all your answers!!
> 
> I asked Ralph Davis and he thought something like enchi, pastel or fader... so we still don't know...
> By the way I don't think it's going to make it, it looks very tired and is barely moving when I touch it.......


I'm sorry to hear that.


dr del

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## Anya

> Thank's for all your answers!!
> 
> I asked Ralph Davis and he thought something like enchi, pastel or fader... so we still don't know...
> By the way I don't think it's going to make it, it looks very tired and is barely moving when I touch it.......


Oh, crap.  :Sad:  Best wishes for the little guy...Man, that would suck. I hope he makes. it.

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## xFenrir

Oh no!  :Sad:  I hope the little guy makes it, he's such a star here.

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_Anya_ (05-14-2011)

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## JimmyLindberg

Ok, it seems like the tiredness could be from hatching, it seems to have improved a bit since yesterday so let's just wait and see........
BTW I'm having a tough time from my mother since I wrote my last tread saying that I didn't think it's going to make it.. Hopefully she'll forgive me, it's just that I'm very eager to tell everyone about this exciting clutch and it's progress.

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_angllady2_ (05-15-2011),Kymberli (05-15-2011),_Quiet Tempest_ (05-15-2011),_xFenrir_ (05-15-2011)

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## Anya

Oh thank goodness...We're rooting for the little guy!!  :Smile:   :Tears:

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## Cendalla

I follow this thread petty closely. I was bummed all day thinking he wasn't doing good. Now I'm thrilled. I think you have yourself a little keeper!!! :Very Happy:

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## Kymberli

Is it sad that I became so happy when you said it looks like it will pull through? I think I'd be crushed if it didn't make it, and it's not even mine.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  You've got a popular little clutch here. I wish you all the best!  :Please:

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## J.Vandegrift

After reading about the issues this clutch seems to be having I am wondering if incubation stress may be the cause of these strange babies.

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## rabernet

> After reading about the issues this clutch seems to be having I am wondering if incubation stress may be the cause of these strange babies.


That's exactly my thinking as well. I think incubation stress has a lot to do with the anomolies in this clutch.

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## JimmyLindberg

What do you mean by incubation stress?
If you mean the temperature it has been steady the whole incubation time.

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## python_addict

i think.........you should post pictures of him once you get him through his first shed  :Very Happy:

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## Homegrownscales

They were cooked a bit low correct? Low Inc temps have been known to do odd things to clutches. This may be one of those weird things.

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## bubblz

_I went through this whole thread and kept hearing normal but didn't see any babies that looked normal.

So I'm just tagging this thread for updated pics_

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## J.Vandegrift

> What do you mean by incubation stress?
> If you mean the temperature it has been steady the whole incubation time.


Between them taking so long to exit the egg, the cord wrapped baby, the weak one, and the dead ones, something must have been off at some point during the incubation. Could have been too wet, too dry, maybe your thermostat is off... could have been a bunch of things. Just my opinion but incubation issues have been been know to result in some crazy hatchlings. Hopefully I am wrong. Either way it's a sweet looking snake.

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## JimmyLindberg

The temperature has been steady all the time but I agree that this has taken quite a while.

Anyway the "weird looking" snake is unfortunately dead...... :Sad: 
His siblings are still alive and we just have to wait and see, the question is if this had to do with any genetics or with the incubator.
I have never experienced this problems before and I just have to wait and see when the next clutch is ready to hatch if we get the same problematics here.
The question is if we should do the same paring next season considering what happened with this clutch?
Here is some pictures of the weird snake after it had died.......

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## Quiet Tempest

It's a shame it didn't make it.   :Sad:   So sorry.

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## dr del

Nuts,  :Sad: 

I would definately repeat the pairing at least once more.

I hope the rest of the eggs in your incubator are fine.  :Please: 

How are you planning on double checking the temps and humidity to find out if it really is at the right level?


dr del

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## DemmBalls

> Between them taking so long to exit the egg, the cord wrapped baby, the weak one, and the dead ones, something must have been off at some point during the incubation. Could have been too wet, too dry, maybe your thermostat is off... could have been a bunch of things. Just my opinion but incubation issues have been been know to result in some crazy hatchlings. Hopefully I am wrong. Either way it's a sweet looking snake.


This is what I have been saying the entire time.  Something just isn't right.  

I would buy a new thermometer or two and re-check your temps.  What T-stat are your using on this incubator?

I'm terribly sorry for your losses w/ this clutch.  I hope the remaining animals do okay for you.  Please keep us updated.

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## JimmyLindberg

I check the temperature by having three thermometers in the incubator at the same time so that I'm able to tell if it's okay.
And if her babies do survive, there are two pastels and two normals alive, would it be better to breed her with one of them?

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## kc261

Too bad that interesting looking little one didn't make it.   :Sad: 

Personally, I would repeat the same pairing next year.  Since you have no real knowledge as to what is going on, you don't know if you might be eliminating the interesting genes (if it is genetic at all) by pairing the mother with one of her offspring.

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## DemmBalls

> Personally, I would repeat the same pairing next year.  Since you have no real knowledge as to what is going on, you don't know if you might be eliminating the interesting genes (if it is genetic at all) by pairing the mother with one of her offspring.


I agree.  I would do then same pairing again.

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## Failshed

> I agree.  I would do then same pairing again.


+1 to this. I know it sucks losing such interesting animals but I wouldn't just leave this to "something wrong with incubation". If it happens again you know not to pair them again, unless of course you get something that survives without issues.

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## Anya

:Sad:  :Tears:  :Sad:  :Tears:  :Sad:  :Tears:  :Sad: 


Dude, that''s so sad. Poor little guy. I'll be interested to see the others grow up, though, so make sure you keep us up to date with pictures!

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## Clint Bundy

If it died before the coloring stage of it's life, wouldn't it just stop at that color? It wouldn't loose the color it already had would it? I am wondering this because I am thinking that maybe it was just a pastel that died in the egg before all of it's coloring was complete. I know I read in the post that the eggs might have been cut open a little to early. I am not criticizing you for this I am just trying to ask questions so that I and others might not run into the same problem down the road. I still think that it was one nice looking snake.

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## Anya

> If it died before the coloring stage of it's life, wouldn't it just stop at that color? It wouldn't loose the color it already had would it? I am wondering this because I am thinking that maybe it was just a pastel that died in the egg before all of it's coloring was complete. I know I read in the post that the eggs might have been cut open a little to early. I am not criticizing you for this I am just trying to ask questions so that I and others might not run into the same problem down the road. I still think that it was one nice looking snake.


I would think this, but only a few of them died. After a few days, most naturally slithered out of their respective eggs. Even this little guy came out! Also, his cutting time was pretty on time...not enormously early. He said himself he's had many successful clutches cut at the length he did.

 But obviously something went wrong...sigh.  :Sad:

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## Abaddon91

heyim sorry to hear tht the baby didnt make it but i think i found a close id to the morph mabe an axanthic bumble bee or a spider killer bee axanthic  just from the pics ive seen the pattern is simmalar except for the completely white head
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/mo...ic-bumble-bee/ 
looks really simular hope for the rest to be well :Good Job:

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## JimmyLindberg

The rest of the clutch seems to be ok.
I`ll upload some pictures once the babies have shed for the first time.

I have always cut the eggs on day 55 and there has never been any problems before.
But I will wait until day 60 before I cut the next clutch,they are currently on day 47.
I will write how it goes........

I will do the same pairing next season and hope for the best,if the results are the same I know that it`s something genetic and then I have to try with another male.

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## MoshBalls

Thank you for sharing.  It is very exciting.  I am sorry he didn't make it.   :Sad:

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## moravaguy

sorry to hear that special guy/gal didnt make it, i actually have a 10 egg pastelx normal clutch myself and that little guy/gal has made me excited (even though i know i wont get one lol). thanks for this post it has me all hyped up to see what i get, good job  :Good Job: 

p.s. i know i wont forget about that lil weirdo  :Wink: .

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## JimmyLindberg

no, I won`t forget him either,let`s just hope that we will get another one next year.
The female is a big feeder and hopefully she grows a bit more and maybe lay a bigger clutch and then the chances will grow that we get another " weird supersnake".
I will keep you update how it goes :Smile:

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## JimmyLindberg

Remember the pastel that hatched a few days before the weird looking snake?
Well, it's shed for the first time now(double shed). It has also gained some weight, from the starting 17g to 39g!

Here are some pictures of it:




Nice colouration don't you think?

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## abi21491

Beautiful baby  :Smile:  Love it!

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## JimmyLindberg

A bit off-pattern, but there has to be more in it than just pastel.....

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## zoologist

Not as amazing as still in the egg...but still really nice.

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JimmyLindberg (06-28-2011)

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## Aes_Sidhe

Ohh I Agree there is for Sure something going on here... Love peach color on that snake  :Good Job:  :Good Job:  :Good Job:  
If it is a boy I'll breed him to mother and see what happens...

Good luck with Your little project  :Good Job:

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## JimmyLindberg

Thanks, I just hope that the "super snake-gene" isn't recessive if it's a gene, then this pastel is just poss. het for "super-snake" :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

I really hope that the "pastel" and it's normal sibling, who also is alive are 1.1 so i can breed them back to their parents.....

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## Ch^10

Great looking little bugger! It looks similar to a pastel spotnose with a full dorsal stripe?

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## garweft

How is your incubator set up. I had something similar happen with a clutch that was too close to the heat tape in an incubator. Didn't realize it but the area constantly had small temp spikes to the mid 90's everytime the tape came on to keep the incubator at 89.5.

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## Anya

Aww, what a cutie! ^.^

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## JimmyLindberg

A really peach-yellowish colour, nice!

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## DreamMaster

> A really peach-yellowish colour, nice!


Det var en lång tråd du har skaffat dig  :Very Happy:  Hur går det för du hade la mer ägg på gång?

It was a long thread you have acquired  :Very Happy:  How are things going for you because you had more eggs on the way?
stupid google translate  :Very Happy:

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