# Ball Pythons > BP Morphs & Genetics > Is This A Morph? / What Morph Is This? >  Black Pastel?

## Slayzar

Just got this one as a gift, was told it might be a black pastel. What do you guys think?



[img]http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u...s/_MG_3724.jpg[/img]

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## Daybreaker

Hmmm is has characteristics of a black pastel but I'm seeing a dark normal too (if it is a black pastel then it's a low quality one IMO). I'll wait till others chime in.

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## JaGv

did you buy it as a black pastel? 

it does look like it. but i'd say it's a very nice looking normal

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## TessadasExotics

Not a black pastel... It is very nice though! I would take it ..... especially for free.

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## Slayzar

The breeder that gave it to me told me it very well could be a black pastel (he sells the snakes, his wife breeds them). I know hes vaguely familiar with morphs, etc but his wife is the "brains" behind the operation. I would reach out to them again to find out, however, I didn't have the foresight to get contact info. I traded an old Herpstat for it  :Razz: 

The pictures really dont do the colors justice, I have a couple of normals and they are nothing like this. The blacks are darker in person, and the blushing along the dorsal is more evident. I've never seen a black pastel in person so this is difficult to classify for me. I should also note that I got a couple other normals from the same breeder and they are much lighter in coloration and very reduced.

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## JaGv

the pattern is kinda off for a black pastel though. double checking with the wife would be good though 


here's mine for comparison

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Slayzar (09-25-2012)

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## Slayzar

Thanks, JaGv! Your picture really translates the colors well, this hatchling is very similar to the image you posted in regards to how dark and saturated the colors are in comparison to the normals I am used to seeing. If this is indeed a black pastel I will be purchasing a male black pastel or cinny for the super form!

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## adam_c

> Thanks, JaGv! Your picture really translates the colors well, this hatchling is very similar to the image you posted in regards to how dark and saturated the colors are in comparison to the normals I am used to seeing. If this is indeed a black pastel I will be purchasing a male black pastel or cinny for the super form!


be aware of the slightly high birth defect rate of super black pastels and super cinny's. don't quote me on this but if you bred a cinny x black pastel it results in a less "black" super, but has a lower birth defect rate.

just a heads up!

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Slayzar (09-25-2012)

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## JaGv

that would be a good way. i'd go for the super black pastel. but beware of defects

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Slayzar (09-25-2012)

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## Robert093090

This is my Black Pastel girl

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## Slayzar

Thanks for the heads up! I'll do my due diligence and find out about possible birth defects. I've only ever produced one clutch, so there is a lot to learn and research for me. I do want to make sure this is, in fact, a black pastel as it will affect what morph I invest in next.




> Not a black pastel... It is very nice though! I would take it ..... especially for free.


Not to contradict you (as I really have no experience with this morph), but how are you able to tell? I have been trying to find how to classify it properly but can't find any traits it doesn't have that other black pastel images, etc demonstrate.

Thanks again for your help guys!

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## Wonzzer

My guess would be a normal.  I am pretty sure I see black flecks on the belly, and I think black pastels have a clear belly like cinnys.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Xparent Red Tapatalk 2

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## Slayzar

> This is my Black Pastel girl


Beautiful snake! I have been into light coloration and bright/reduced morphs thus far, but I'm really liking the look of the black pastel pictures you guys posted.

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## JaGv

> My guess would be a normal.  I am pretty sure I see black flecks on the belly, and I think black pastels have a clear belly like cinnys.
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Xparent Red Tapatalk 2


my black pastel has flecks on its belly too.

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## 1nstinct

Very nice normal,I would get a nice fire or vanilla and breed it to yours, could produce some nice babies

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## TheSnakeGuy

I still can't tell if I have a black pastel or not. 

This is the one the breeder said might have the gene:



I don't know if the speckled belly is a trait of black pastel or not.



And here is my normal. Side by side one is much darker than the other one. And the normal has a solid while belly. I just don't know.Opinions?

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## JaGv

> I still can't tell if I have a black pastel or not. 
> 
> This is the one the breeder said might have the gene:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know if the speckled belly is a trait of black pastel or not.
> 
> 
> ...


both are normals. black pastels are co-dominant so either you have a visual or its a normal

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## aalomon

Not a black pastel. Sorry

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## Slayzar

Thanks for the feedback again, guys! It would be helpful if the people that were able to tell it wasn't a black pastel would explain how they determined it. I do notice more of an "alien head" pattern on my snake vs the images posted by other members; is this what gives it away? I'm still quite happy with it, it's unlike any normal I've ever seen with how busy the pattern is and how much flaming and blushing its got. Should produce some nice babies for me nonetheless!

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## JaGv

black pastels don't really have alien head patterns instead they have floating donut patterns and some long patterns that run along part of their bodies. also you can tell by their heads those lines that go from their nose towards the back of their heads is more faded.

hope this pics help point out some markers

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## MaxT815

That looks like black pastel to me. I mean, low quality, just being honest. But it definetly looks black pastel.

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## WingedWolfPsion

I think it looks kind of like a granite in those first pics, lol.

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## aalomon

> Thanks for the feedback again, guys! It would be helpful if the people that were able to tell it wasn't a black pastel would explain how they determined it. I do notice more of an "alien head" pattern on my snake vs the images posted by other members; is this what gives it away? I'm still quite happy with it, it's unlike any normal I've ever seen with how busy the pattern is and how much flaming and blushing its got. Should produce some nice babies for me nonetheless!


Black pastels are knowns for having nice, even dark heads, not head spots. Also every cinny/black pastel Ive seen had a 100% clear or very nearly clear belly. Not enough line sqigglies in the the alien head. The color is a bit off....really I dont see anything that says black pastel.

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## mattb

This is my black pastel that I picked up a few days ago. Her belly is not totally clear either.

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## loonunit

That's not a black pastel, sorry. I have two of them, and I just hatched a cinnamon. Black pastels are very distinct. The black spots basically have to fill the the brown areas completely, with or with out the additional black highlight around the edge.

The original snake does have some interesting flecking on the sides, though. Very granite-y. It does look a bit like a sable.

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## JaGv

> This is my black pastel that I picked up a few days ago. Her belly is not totally clear either.


was this from a breeder? i must say it doesn't look like a black pastel

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## Mrl249

> black pastels don't really have alien head patterns instead they have floating donut patterns and some long patterns that run along part of their bodies. also you can tell by their heads those lines that go from their nose towards the back of their heads is more faded.
> 
> hope this pics help point out some markers


Was that an app you created those circles with? If so, which one?

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## DooLittle

I am by no means an expert, but all I see is normal.

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

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## mattb

> was this from a breeder? i must say it doesn't look like a black pastel


Yes it was from a breeder. And everything I have seen it looks exactly like a black pastel.

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## Robert093090

> Yes it was from a breeder. And everything I have seen it looks exactly like a black pastel.


Well if you think it looks like a black pastel then it is a black pastel, its a good looking snake and honestly it looks like a low grade black pastel. Breed it and you'll know for sure.

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## TessadasExotics

> Thanks for the heads up! I'll do my due diligence and find out about possible birth defects. I've only ever produced one clutch, so there is a lot to learn and research for me. I do want to make sure this is, in fact, a black pastel as it will affect what morph I invest in next.
> 
> 
> 
> Not to contradict you (as I really have no experience with this morph), but how are you able to tell? I have been trying to find how to classify it properly but can't find any traits it doesn't have that other black pastel images, etc demonstrate.
> 
> Thanks again for your help guys!


Here is a link to help

ball-pythons.net/HUNTER-GUIDE-TO-THE-MORPHS-Cinnamons-and-Black-Pastels

Black Pastel on the left and Cinni on the right.


Black Pastel...... The best looking line.... Liesen Line Black Pastel.

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## CD CONSTRICTORS

The second one in question here looks less like a Black Pastel than the OP's. I'm seeing normal. Here is a good link.... 12 pics. Some pics seem low quality I must admit. 1, 6, 7, 8 and 12 are the best I see in the link-

http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/black-pastel/

I just picked this guy up from Colin Weaver. He's 100% Het Pied, but that by no means changes how he, or any other Black Pastel looks. Those oblong body markers seem to be present on every Black Pastel I've seen. The "eye liner" going straight through the eye is very dark. Body markers on a Black Pastel are a gold color and some have that black inner ring inside the markings. Dorsal markings generally get lighter as they go back.

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## JaGv

> Was that an app you created those circles with? If so, which one?


i used windows paint

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## Domepiece

It definately has some minor black pastel qualities but this one is hard to tell. All morphs have great variations. Ive seen all kinds that dont have all the stereotypical traits of a certain morph but still throw offspring that are textbook characteristic of the morph. Some just come out ugly or have traits showing through of the other parent. So it could be a black pastel, just have to prove it out. Either way, great looking snake. Congrats :Very Happy:

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Proper (09-30-2012)

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## SlitherinSisters

It does have some squigglies like a black pastel would, but the belly is a dead give away for a normal.

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snakesRkewl (10-01-2012)

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## satomi325

The OP snake is a really dark phase normal. Very nice looking snake imo, just not a BP.
The pattern is typical normal. 


This is a BP:

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## Slayzar

Thanks again for your input guys, is it possible this could be something else? As shes growing her blacks are getting darker and shes getting a nice orange blushing as well as more speckling in her alien heads. Here are some updated pictures:









These pictures really don't do justice to the colors. Shes got really saturated oranges/reds and deep blacks. Do you guys think its dinker-worthy (crossing my fingers for the sucia pastel  :Please:  haha)?

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## Slayzar

Anyone have any input on the updated pictures?

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## CLSpider

Looks like a pretty normal  :Smile:

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## jimssnakes0808

yes im seeing a nice normal to...

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## BallPython17

Not a black pastel. Might be a het red axanthic? Might want to look into that.

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