# Other Pets > Dogs >  What do you say to the people who give you flak for cropping and docking?

## SlitherinSisters

I was expecting it, but I'm already catching flak for having a cropped and docked Doberman  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  I tell them the truth, I wasn't willing to buy a Doberman pup that wasn't cropped and docked because that's how I wanted her to look, and yes it's purely cosmetic and yes I'm selfish  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  

My granny ran a dog kennel when I was younger. Cropping and docking today compared to 20 years ago seems like a walk in the park. Very little pain and definitely no lifelong trauma, as some claim. I will agree that the practice of cropping and docking back in the day was a bit cruel, but you can't tell me a puppy will remember that for the rest of his life. It also doesn't hinder their day to day living like declawing a cat. Declawing a cat removes their best defense, so it could be compared to removing a dogs teeth....not their ears/tail  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  

I just had to vent.

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## scales owner

> I was expecting it, but I'm already catching flak for having a cropped and docked Doberman  I tell them the truth, I wasn't willing to buy a Doberman pup that wasn't cropped and docked because that's how I wanted her to look, and yes it's purely cosmetic and I'm selfish  
> 
> My granny ran a dog kennel when I was younger. Cropping and docking today compared to 20 years ago seems like a walk in the park. Very little pain and definitely no lifelong trauma, as some claim. I will agree that the practice of cropping and docking back in the day was a bit cruel, but you can't tell me a puppy will remember that for the rest of his life. It also doesn't hinder their day to day living like declawing a cat. Declawing a cat removes their best defense, so it could be compared to removing a dogs teeth....not their ears/tail  
> 
> I just had to vent.


SCREW EM' ....sorry. I have had 4 Dobies in my life time and my grandparents bred ,raised and showed them. They are cute however not done but I think it takes away from their look and the "fierceness" of them. I love them cropped and docked. In fact should be getting my new one within the year. Can't wait! Ray. :Good Job:

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SlitherinSisters (01-09-2009)

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## Typical_08

Simple. I don't acknowledge them. If they continue, be just as condescending about something that they do that is none of your business. 

Or you can just tell them to STFU.

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SlitherinSisters (01-09-2009)

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## SlitherinSisters

> SCREW EM' ....sorry. I have had 4 Dobies in my life time and my grandparents bred ,raised and showed them. They are cute however not done but I think it takes away from their look and the "fierceness" of them. I love them cropped and docked. In fact should be getting my new one within the year. Can't wait! Ray.


 :Razz:  Thanks. I totally agree with you! It really does take away from their look. IMO they just look like coon hounds when they are natural. They loose the elegant regal look. 

Congrats! You'll have to post pictures and keep us updated!

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## SlitherinSisters

> Simple. I don't acknowledge them. If they continue, be just as condescending about something that they do that is none of your business. 
> 
> Or you can just tell them to STFU.


Maybe I could talk to them about their parenting skills when I don't have any kids myself!  :ROFL:

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## Jay_Bunny

Personally, I like the natural look on dogs. I do not compare de-clawing and de-voicing animals to cropping and docking. As long as the procedure is done by a veterinarian and done while the dog is under, I'm fine. Little to no pain won't hurt the dog. While I don't understand the reasons for this other than cosmetic purposes, as long as it doesn't hurt the animal, I don't see a problem with it. I compare it to someone getting a nose job.

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## Typical_08

> Maybe I could talk to them about their parenting skills when I don't have any kids myself!


That works. 

I probably shouldn't have clicked on this post because now I am fired up about it.

The dogs I have now are muts (one is a dobe lab mix, and the other is a lab chow mix). But I have had a plethora of dogs during my life of all different breeds. Years ago I had a dobe, and cropped and docked him. Our neighbor kept complaining about it, and telling me how inhumane it is (please note that the dog was nearing the end of its life when we met her, and had been altered when it was a pup). After about a week of it I got fed up after taking another lecture from her, so I rather rudely lectured on how she has three borders in her quarter acre back yard that got no attention other than feeding and watering. Totally untrained, high energy dogs that require a job to do or they tend to become destructive. After rudely lecturing her for a good half hour about what a crappy owner she is, and telling her how to raise her dogs she started crying and never spoke to me again.

Mission acomplished.

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## DMTWI

I tell them hey, this isn't my dog, I'm just walking it for a friend. The poor dog got his ears done because he was top heavy and kept falling forward and hurting himself, so the ear job saved his life.      :Very Happy:

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_iCandiBallPythons_ (01-11-2009),_SGExotics_ (01-12-2009)

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## JD Constriction

As you know skylar is docked but not cropped.  Looking back lookswise I kinda wish I would have had him cropped but at the same time he's a goof with his big floppy ears and I love him for it  :Smile: 

I think to each his/her own.  I'd just say to politely tell the people criticizing you that you are happy with your choice but you appreciate their opinion.  Turn the other cheek and move on with life  :Smile: 

She's adorable BTW and I wouldn't change a thing about her  :Smile:

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## littleindiangirl

I certainly like the look of cropped ears, and I honestly have never had someone approach me to tell me something of that sort. I think I scare people.  :Devilish:

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## Purrrfect9

for some breed's cropping ears can also be a health preventative as well. Especially since Dobermans have such a large surface area in their ears, by getting the cropped it lowers the risk of them getting an inner ear infection. I have two mini schnauzers that are docked, but not cropped. One of my dogs, Jack, has much larger ears than the other, and the flop straight down in front of the canal which blocks a lot of the airflow that it would normally receive if they were cropped, and he gets an ear infection every year, if not every other year. He's always well groomed, and we clean out his ears regularly, it's just something that happens with him *shrug*. So you could say that it's also a health concern, haha. As far as the tail, I think that it's purely cosmetic and 100% up to the owner if that's what they want to have done to their dog or not. Dogs don't rely on their tails for balance as much as cats do, but like cats, they can survive (and thrive) without one. Just look at the cat breed Manx. These cats are born without tails through selective breeding... anywho... time to get off my soap box, lol.

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## mainbutter

I'd give you crap, but mostly on just cosmetic taste :-P   Little stumps for tails just look silly to me.

I love the look of dobies without anything done to them.  Gorgeous dogs.

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## Earl

> I was expecting it, but I'm already catching flak for having a cropped and docked Doberman  I tell them the truth, I wasn't willing to buy a Doberman pup that wasn't cropped and docked because that's how I wanted her to look, and yes it's purely cosmetic and yes I'm selfish


I have a solution!

Buy a big jolly candy red fire engine and have it follow you around town, and everytime someone wants to debate ear cropping with you, you have them drink from the fire hose.

I have it on good authority that a fully charged hose can wash a whole pack of human beings 20-30 feet down the street and it will also give them a moment of pause.

That is my plan and I believe it will work.  :Smile:

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_hoax_ (01-11-2009),_littleindiangirl_ (01-09-2009),_SecurityStacey_ (01-09-2009)

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## SlitherinSisters

> Personally, I like the natural look on dogs. I do not compare de-clawing and de-voicing animals to cropping and docking. As long as the procedure is done by a veterinarian and done while the dog is under, I'm fine. Little to no pain won't hurt the dog. While I don't understand the reasons for this other than cosmetic purposes, as long as it doesn't hurt the animal, I don't see a problem with it. I compare it to someone getting a nose job.


I definitely respect people and their opinions. I don't think you're crazy for liking natural, and I like the fact that you respect other people's choice to crop/dock. She was under for her ears, she got stitches, and is completely healed in two weeks. As for her dew claws and tail, I don't know if she was under for that. She went to the vet to have them removed and stitched up when she was three days old. Maybe she was numbed? 




> That works. 
> 
> I probably shouldn't have clicked on this post because now I am fired up about it.
> 
> The dogs I have now are muts (one is a dobe lab mix, and the other is a lab chow mix). But I have had a plethora of dogs during my life of all different breeds. Years ago I had a dobe, and cropped and docked him. Our neighbor kept complaining about it, and telling me how inhumane it is (please note that the dog was nearing the end of its life when we met her, and had been altered when it was a pup). After about a week of it I got fed up after taking another lecture from her, so I rather rudely lectured on how she has three borders in her quarter acre back yard that got no attention other than feeding and watering. Totally untrained, high energy dogs that require a job to do or they tend to become destructive. After rudely lecturing her for a good half hour about what a crappy owner she is, and telling her how to raise her dogs she started crying and never spoke to me again.
> 
> Mission acomplished.


Good!!! I hate it when people think they should "save" you and tell you how horrible you are for having your dog cropped/docked. Dogs don't harbor resentment or wonder why their ears are smaller for the rest of their life. I'm glad you told that lady off! Why do people think they are any better than you, just like that lady you lectured about her working dogs with no job or training  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 




> I tell them hey, this isn't my dog, I'm just walking it for a friend. The poor dog got his ears done because he was top heavy and kept falling forward and hurting himself, so the ear job saved his life.


 :ROFL:  nice!




> As you know skylar is docked but not cropped.  Looking back lookswise I kinda wish I would have had him cropped but at the same time he's a goof with his big floppy ears and I love him for it 
> 
> I think to each his/her own.  I'd just say to politely tell the people criticizing you that you are happy with your choice but you appreciate their opinion.  Turn the other cheek and move on with life 
> 
> She's adorable BTW and I wouldn't change a thing about her


Sky is a goof! His ears fit him well! 

Thanks! I wouldn't change her for the world. She's going to be absolutely gorgeous! 




> I certainly like the look of cropped ears, and I honestly have never had someone approach me to tell me something of that sort. I think I scare people.


Really?! You must scare people!  :ROFL:  I had people saying crap even before I bought the dog because they asked if she was going to be cropped.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  




> for some breed's cropping ears can also be a health preventative as well. Especially since Dobermans have such a large surface area in their ears, by getting the cropped it lowers the risk of them getting an inner ear infection. I have two mini schnauzers that are docked, but not cropped. One of my dogs, Jack, has much larger ears than the other, and the flop straight down in front of the canal which blocks a lot of the airflow that it would normally receive if they were cropped, and he gets an ear infection every year, if not every other year. He's always well groomed, and we clean out his ears regularly, it's just something that happens with him *shrug*. So you could say that it's also a health concern, haha. As far as the tail, I think that it's purely cosmetic and 100% up to the owner if that's what they want to have done to their dog or not. Dogs don't rely on their tails for balance as much as cats do, but like cats, they can survive (and thrive) without one. Just look at the cat breed Manx. These cats are born without tails through selective breeding... anywho... time to get off my soap box, lol.


I heard that about some breeds! Actually it was at the pet store when I was talking about getting her and someone made a comment about her getting cropped and the store clerk chimed in and told us that some breeds are cropped for just that reason! 




> I'd give you crap, but mostly on just cosmetic taste :-P   Little stumps for tails just look silly to me.
> 
> I love the look of dobies without anything done to them.  Gorgeous dogs.


I think short stubby tails are cute  :Razz:

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## DMTWI

By the way, I forgot to mention your pup looks great! I really like the ears to, good job!     :Good Job:

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## SlitherinSisters

> By the way, I forgot to mention your pup looks great! I really like the ears to, good job!


Thank you! I'm really happy with the vet the breeder uses. She has pictures of past puppies that were cropped and healed and I really like the cut. I prefer the big bells and medium/long cut!

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## JLC

I haven't gotten too much flack for it, but on those rare occassions that I have, I just smile and tell them I appreciate their opinion and then quickly move on.  Getting into an argument about it rarely changes anyone's minds and isn't worth my time, personally. 

Having done a lot of research and speaking with several breeders before getting my dobe, I learned that very few truly good breeders will even allow their pups to not be cropped and docked.  The whole littler is docked (and dewclaws removed) when they are just a couple days old....and many whole litters are cropped at the same time before going to new homes as well.  The primary reason I was given for this was that if a time should ever come that the dog needs to go to a new home, they are far far more likely to be placed if they are both cropped and docked.  "Natural" dobies are way more likely to end up in shelters and be put to sleep.

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SlitherinSisters (01-09-2009)

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## wolfy-hound

I personally think the ear cropping for prevention of ear infections is a load of bunk.  If anything, more dirt and debris can enter the ear canal.  As a groomer, I see way more schnauzers with cropped ears having ear issues, than ones with uncropped ears.  I don't think it CAUSES ear issues though.
Ear cropping, and tail docking is a cosmetic procedure, and there is no other reason for it.  It's not illegil here, and until it is illegil, people will continue to have it preformed on some dogs.
I like dobies with cropped ears and tails.  I like the look of it.  I still think it's a unneccesary procedure, and for show, any OTHER surgery to alter the dog's appearance is grounds for disqualification, so I don't know why they still allow docking and cropping in show dogs.
I do NOT think ear cropping affects the dog past the first few days of recovery.  As long as the owner isn't pulling at the ears or anything, I don't think the dog will remember anything about it at all.  The tail docking is normally done at day 3 or earlier, and is harmless, with the pups rarely showing any ill effect(same with dew claw removal which DOES have good reasons behind it).  The vet next to the shop I worked at did show ear cropping, and I watched a LOT of pups go through it, and they did not seem to be bothered by it.
If someone bugged me about my cropped dog, I'd tell them to mind their own business, that my dog was perfectly happy, and walk on.  Life's too short to bother paying attention to lunatics.

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SlitherinSisters (01-09-2009)

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## SecurityStacey

Alright... here we go.

First off, let me say that your pup is adorable.  Her little(or big I guess :Razz: ) radar ears are so cute - and they will be gorgeous when she grows into them - right now they are just adorable though.

That being said, I like my dogs with tails and floppy ears and a couple years ago I may have had more to say about getting dogs tails docked and ears cropped but I learned something very important.  

As anyone can see to get ears cropped and have them the way you want them (not flopping) it takes a lot of time and care!  As your pictures hvae been showing you have to have them taped and tend to them and check on them, it isn't something that just over and done and you don't have to follow up.  So honestly, everytime I see a dobie with cropped ears sticking up - to me that says someone cared a lot about that dog and put a lot of time into that dog.

And then I worked in a dog shelter and I saw a lot of dogs with no homes, that were abused, that lived horrible lives and a lot of them that ended that horrible life by being put down somewhere that wasn't a home - that some of them never knew a home and I got a lot of perspective on the kinds of things that are inhumane and the kinds of things that aren't.

So I could lie and say I've never had a problem with it - but I did used to so I guess you could call me a convert.  Because even something that is done for cosmetic purposes, who cares?  The dog is in a loving home, the dog is well taken care of - and honestly.. the dog really seems like it couldn't care less about its ears being cropped or its tail being docked.  

Bottom line that I'd tell people that give you flak - the dog is loved, the dog is happy, the dog is healthy.  What else is important?

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Earl (01-09-2009),_Epona142_ (01-09-2009),_hoax_ (01-11-2009),JLC (01-09-2009),SlitherinSisters (01-09-2009)

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## JLC

> Bottom line that I'd tell people that give you flak - the dog is loved, the dog is happy, the dog is healthy.  What else is important?


Beautifully said!!  :Salute:

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## SlitherinSisters

> I haven't gotten too much flack for it, but on those rare occassions that I have, I just smile and tell them I appreciate their opinion and then quickly move on.  Getting into an argument about it rarely changes anyone's minds and isn't worth my time, personally. 
> 
> Having done a lot of research and speaking with several breeders before getting my dobe, I learned that very few truly good breeders will even allow their pups to not be cropped and docked.  The whole littler is docked (and dewclaws removed) when they are just a couple days old....and many whole litters are cropped at the same time before going to new homes as well.  The primary reason I was given for this was that if a time should ever come that the dog needs to go to a new home, they are far far more likely to be placed if they are both cropped and docked.  "Natural" dobies are way more likely to end up in shelters and be put to sleep.


You know, I didn't even think about that. Natural Dobermans are probably much more likely to not find a home or be put to sleep. If I was looking for an adult I would be looking for one that was cropped. I would have loved to adopt one, but I just can't take the risk of not knowing where or how my "dangerous" breed dog grew up. I didn't realize how dangerous the public still thinks dobes are. My mom called me up one day because her insurance company called to ask if she had one of the three lock-jaw breeds: pit bull, rot, and doberman. We spoke with our insurance company and they are still covering our house thank goodness!!! 




> I personally think the ear cropping for prevention of ear infections is a load of bunk.  If anything, more dirt and debris can enter the ear canal.  As a groomer, I see way more schnauzers with cropped ears having ear issues, than ones with uncropped ears.  I don't think it CAUSES ear issues though.
> Ear cropping, and tail docking is a cosmetic procedure, and there is no other reason for it.  It's not illegil here, and until it is illegil, people will continue to have it preformed on some dogs.
> I like dobies with cropped ears and tails.  I like the look of it.  I still think it's a unneccesary procedure, and for show, any OTHER surgery to alter the dog's appearance is grounds for disqualification, so I don't know why they still allow docking and cropping in show dogs.
> I do NOT think ear cropping affects the dog past the first few days of recovery.  As long as the owner isn't pulling at the ears or anything, I don't think the dog will remember anything about it at all.  The tail docking is normally done at day 3 or earlier, and is harmless, with the pups rarely showing any ill effect(same with dew claw removal which DOES have good reasons behind it).  The vet next to the shop I worked at did show ear cropping, and I watched a LOT of pups go through it, and they did not seem to be bothered by it.
> If someone bugged me about my cropped dog, I'd tell them to mind their own business, that my dog was perfectly happy, and walk on.  Life's too short to bother paying attention to lunatics.


That's what I think, they aren't going to remember it. And it seems to be relatively painless just a week later. I've always wondered why people think it's ok to remove the dew claws. It must have some sort of health reason? The only reason I've ever experienced is the large breeds will call the crap out of you if they jump on you or play with their feet. 




> Alright... here we go.
> 
> First off, let me say that your pup is adorable.  Her little(or big I guess) radar ears are so cute - and they will be gorgeous when she grows into them - right now they are just adorable though.
> 
> That being said, I like my dogs with tails and floppy ears and a couple years ago I may have had more to say about getting dogs tails docked and ears cropped but I learned something very important.  
> 
> As anyone can see to get ears cropped and have them the way you want them (not flopping) it takes a lot of time and care!  As your pictures hvae been showing you have to have them taped and tend to them and check on them, it isn't something that just over and done and you don't have to follow up.  So honestly, everytime I see a dobie with cropped ears sticking up - to me that says someone cared a lot about that dog and put a lot of time into that dog.
> 
> And then I worked in a dog shelter and I saw a lot of dogs with no homes, that were abused, that lived horrible lives and a lot of them that ended that horrible life by being put down somewhere that wasn't a home - that some of them never knew a home and I got a lot of perspective on the kinds of things that are inhumane and the kinds of things that aren't.
> ...


That's a good point. It does take a lot of time and effort, not to mention money, to get their ears to stand up and look nice. Last week I was pointing ointment on her ears twice a day to help them heal faster. It's not a one person simple job either! They are tricky, bouncy little buggers! We take the tape off again on Tuesday and leave it off for a day. It will be so exciting when we can leave the tape off and look at her ears all day! I'm kind of excited because the vet will see her without the tape! One of the vet techs wants a dobe and really wants to see how well her ears turned out. I love my baby and I can't wait till she has all her shots and I can show her off to everyone! So far I've only taken her places with people and no dogs. One of the pet stores in Iowa City is known to have puppies with Parvo and I'm not stepping foot in there until she has all of her shots!

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## SlitherinSisters

> I have a solution!
> 
> Buy a big jolly candy red fire engine and have it follow you around town, and everytime someone wants to debate ear cropping with you, you have them drink from the fire hose.
> 
> I have it on good authority that a fully charged hose can wash a whole pack of human beings 20-30 feet down the street and it will also give them a moment of pause.
> 
> That is my plan and I believe it will work.


 :ROFL:  I missed this. Even though that sounds like a fantastic plan, I'm afraid I don't have the money for one of those!

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## pillowtalk6188

just ask them if their boys are circumcized. and thats their KID. you can do whatever you want to your dog, the vet wouldn't do it if it wasn't humane.

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## pillowtalk6188

i also know of a great dane that HAD to have his tail taken off because the weight and the momentum of his tale wagging on the wall would make it bleed. do whatever the hell you want, your not abusing anything.

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SlitherinSisters (01-12-2009)

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## wolfy-hound

Dewclaws can easily be torn off(especially when they are 'dangling' dewclaws) accidentally.  They also can become ingrown, as the dewclaw doesn't usually get worn down, because they don't touch the ground.  Coated breeds often have dewclaws get caught up in brushes or combs and yanked loose, or partially loose.  
That's the main reasons behind dewclaw removal, although there are a couple breeds that require dewclaws to be present to be shown in AKC.

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SlitherinSisters (01-12-2009)

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## Vacado

Ear cropping and dew claw removal did originally serve a purpose back when our breeds were actually working dogs, performing the duties they were bred for.  Large floppy ears were not intimidating, easy for other dogs or prey to grab and tear, and more likely to get snagged in brush.  Long tails are also easy for prey or other dogs to grab in fights.  Dew claws can get snagged and ripped off in brush during a hunt.

Most dogs now no longer work, but instead are our loving companions.  They don't necessarily have a "need" for any of these procedures to be done (unless you're illegally fighting your dogs, using them for protection, or if you hunt in nasty brush), but it is part of the look those dogs were bred into.  I think as long as it is done humanely, there should be no laws against these historical dog alterations.  What's the difference between taking a dogs testicles or dew claws and taking its tail or parts of its ears?  Removing body parts is removing body parts as far as I'm concerned, whether it's done for aesthetics or otherwise.

Pillow you bring up a good point about the danes.  I'm a huge fan of danes and have seen several who needed partial or full tail docking because they kept getting "happy tail" and breaking it on things!

Floppy ears that hug the head do get dirtier.  All the wild canids I can think of have ears that perk up, not flop down, so obviously they don't get too dirty.  The hairs in the ears help keep out debris, and the open design allows them to clean their ears a bit and shake out the gunk.  It also allows for better air flow to cut down on moisture buildup.  I had a shar-pei as my last dog and his ears were tiny and held tightly against his head (modifications for their fighting heritage).  He couldn't shake gunk out of his ears, and it was very hard for him to dig around in his ear with his foot as I've seen so many other dogs do.  He frequently got infections in his ears and we had to clean out gobs of dirt and gunk every month or so.  It just got trapped in there by his ears.

Now we have a natural dobie mix and though we sometimes wish she had her tail and ears done, we think she's goofy and adorable anyways.  When I get my dane puppy I'll probably get its ears done.  To me, they just look better that way (not that I'd turn down an uncropped dane, hehe  :Smile: 

v

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SlitherinSisters (01-12-2009)

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## danimal

> i also know of a great dane that HAD to have his tail taken off because the weight and the momentum of his tale wagging on the wall would make it bleed. do whatever the hell you want, your not abusing anything.


My Dane's tail is a literal weapon. It wags with tremendous velocity and right at "family jewel" height. She's dropped me to my knees more than once when I haven't paid attention. Not fun. She has a small wound on the tip that she got from banging it into things while furiously wagging it. It's taken a few months to heal, finally, I started putting duct tape on it when I knew people were coming to visit, and it's finally healing up. 

We didn't get her ears cropped, because we think the floppy ears give her more personality. I don't mind the cropped ears on the males though. But for the females, it makes them look more feminine. (if a 35" tall, 130lb dog could EVER be feminine!  :Smile:  ) The breed standard for Danes is they can either be cropped or not. 

Isn't this a ton of personality?  :Smile: 


For breeds like dobies, rotties, and other dogs that have a breed standard that requires cropping and docking, I don't have a problem with it as long as it's done properly and with as little pain as possible. What gets me is the home crop jobs you see on pit bulls, where the ears are almost cut off.

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SlitherinSisters (01-12-2009)

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## dizzy

I'm rediculously in love with Rots and when I get one I do plan to have the tail cropped, which suprises most people that I know. As I'm an animal lover they all assume I would think it cruel. 

I say the same thing, that it's selfish on my part but it just looks better and I don't want that massive tail beating on my anemic little legs. I have enough mystery bruises already. 

To be honest I know nothing about how it's done though, so I do hope that it is done humanely.

The only dog I've had so far was a german shepard and I wish his damn tail had been cut off. lol

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## Typical_08

> I'm rediculously in love with Rots and when I get one I do plan to have the tail cropped, which suprises most people that I know. As I'm an animal lover they all assume I would think it cruel. 
> 
> I say the same thing, that it's selfish on my part but it just looks better and I don't want that massive tail beating on my anemic little legs. I have enough mystery bruises already. 
> 
> To be honest I know nothing about how it's done though, so I do hope that it is done humanely.
> 
> The only dog I've had so far was a german shepard and I wish his damn tail had been cut off. lol


http://www.vet4petz.com/articles/cosmetic_surgery.htm



> Docking Your Dog's Tail
> 
> This procedure is typically done on puppies between 3 and 5 days of age.  No anesthetic is involved, and the tails are docked to an appropriate length for the breed.  Some of the breeds normally docked include the Rottweiler, Doberman pincer, Boxer, Schnauzer, Miniature pincer, Toy Fox Terrier (amongst other terrier breeds), Corgi, Poodle, and Sckipperke  to name a few. 
> 
> This procedure is much preferred done while the puppies are less than a week of age.  Afterwards, the puppy has to wait until it is of age appropriate for anesthesia, which is much more involving a procedure, with a much longer healing process.  There is also associated pain with the procedure when done on an older animal, and complications include bleeding, premature stitch removal by the dog, poor healing of the area, and more chances for scarring to occur.
> 
> Unless the dog is being utilized for show purposes in the conformation ring, tail docking is best left undone if beyond the age of 5-7 days. 
> 
> The American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA) has recently made a statement with regards to cosmetic tail docking in the dog.  Essentially, and ultimately the AVMA would like to see this type of cosmetic procedure discontinued for cosmetic purposes only.

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## dsirkle

I prefer the cropped and docked look and in fact own such a Doberman. My Veterinarian recently mentioned to me that the American Veterinary Association just officially took a position against cropping and docking and told me that it would be much harder to find a Vet to do this in the future. Amazingly cropping and docking has been illegal in Germany for several years now and because possessing such a dog is legal Germans are having this done in neighboring Countries. I would just tell the whiners and complainers that the breeder already had the whole litter done before you ever saw your puppy. Dobermans, German Shepherd dogs and some others (not including pit bulls) are in fact more likely to bite a stranger than most other breeds and you must be careful about that. They don't bite people that they are familiar with, but if there is no person there for them to take a cue from to greet a stranger and the dog must make the call it will usually take a protective stance against allowing a stranger access to the home area. It wouldn't be a good idea to leave such a breed unattended and loose.

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## starmom

> I'm rediculously in love with Rots and when I get one I do plan to have the tail cropped, which suprises most people that I know. As I'm an animal lover they all assume I would think it cruel. 
> 
> I say the same thing, that it's selfish on my part but it just looks better and I don't want that massive tail beating on my anemic little legs. I have enough mystery bruises already. 
> 
> To be honest I know nothing about how it's done though, so I do hope that it is done humanely.
> 
> The only dog I've had so far was a german shepard and I wish his damn tail had been cut off. lol


I have a Rottie and he has his tail and my legs have never been bruised. Also, I do not agree that the tail is 'massive'. I think that it is a little silly to cosmetically enhance the (subjective) look of dogs. Can you not love Rottie's with their tails intact????  :Sad:

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## dizzy

Of course I would love a Rot tale or no tail! They're the sweetest, cutest dogs. But I do think their tails would end up breaking alot of stuff and giving me alot of bruises. They're large muscular dogs and as such I think they probably have alot of power in their wag. I can't say for sure having never owned one, and all the ones I've been around being cropped... I'm just making an assumption here... But I do bruise very easily. lol

When I do one day get my rot I am hoping to be able to adopt one from a shelter or rescue, so the odds are that it'll be cropped already. If for some reason I ended up getting a rot that wasn't cropped, I probably wouldn't have the heart to have it done, honestly. Especially since it would probably be older than the age it's typicaly done at.

I'm just saying that I'm not opposed to it and do prefer the look, though I know and stated that it is selfish on my part. But it's not a decision I'll likely have to make. Shelter doggie for me, please!

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## DMTWI

> just ask them if their boys are circumcized. and thats their KID. you can do whatever you want to your dog, the vet wouldn't do it if it wasn't humane.



I'm going to use this next time I'm asked about my dogs ears. Yup, don't remember the procedure at all I'll say. Buy they did a great job, here I'll show you..............      :Dancin' Banana:

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## pillowtalk6188

> Of course I would love a Rot tale or no tail! They're the sweetest, cutest dogs. But I do think their tails would end up breaking alot of stuff and giving me alot of bruises. They're large muscular dogs and as such I think they probably have alot of power in their wag. I can't say for sure having never owned one, and all the ones I've been around being cropped... I'm just making an assumption here... But I do bruise very easily. lol
> 
> When I do one day get my rot I am hoping to be able to adopt one from a shelter or rescue, so the odds are that it'll be cropped already. If for some reason I ended up getting a rot that wasn't cropped, I probably wouldn't have the heart to have it done, honestly. Especially since it would probably be older than the age it's typicaly done at.
> 
> I'm just saying that I'm not opposed to it and do prefer the look, though I know and stated that it is selfish on my part. But it's not a decision I'll likely have to make. Shelter doggie for me, please!


my b/f's dane can clear off a whole table with his tale, def don't keep breakables on tables that their tales can reach, there have many broken picture frames and spilled drinks.

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## starmom

> Of course I would love a Rot tale or no tail! They're the sweetest, cutest dogs. But I do think their tails would end up breaking alot of stuff and giving me alot of bruises. They're large muscular dogs and as such I think they probably have alot of power in their wag. I can't say for sure having never owned one, and all the ones I've been around being cropped... I'm just making an assumption here... But I do bruise very easily. lol...





> my b/f's dane can clear off a whole table with his tale, def don't keep breakables on tables that their tales can reach, there have many broken picture frames and spilled drinks.


As mentioned, I have a Rottie who has his tail and I can say that he has never bruised me or even the grandkids. His tail has never broken anything in my home. He does not have a 'wag of death'. His tail is not an issue. 

Many countries are now advocating and requiring that breeders do not cut off the tails of Rottweilers. I agree with this  :Smile:

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## Typical_08

Ya know, I am reminded of some advise I gave our roommate today. 

She was complaining because her young pup was chewing up her stuffed animals. 

In response to her question on how to stop the behavior. "Pick them up off the floor."

I guess the same applies to the "super tail" debate. 

Now about the bruising. I don't bruise very easily. But the wife bruises like a peach. Each person is different.

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## wolfy-hound

What works for one person isn't going to work for another.  I used to bruise so easily that a friendly squeeze of a hand would leave marks on my arms.  A thick tail whapping on my leg would leave bruises like baseballs.
I don't see how a missing tail really affects most dogs in the least, as long as it's done within the 3-7 days of birth.  I've watched pups getting tails and dewclaws docked, and most were more distressed over being picked up than they were about having their appendage snipped off.
I never saw a pup yet that seemed distressed over NOT having a tail.  They grow up with no tail, so how would they miss it?  Yes, it's mostly a cosmetic procedure(unless it's done later in life because of injury), but it's not exactly a issue to the dog.

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## blackcrystal22

Especially since you are possibly planning on showing him, they have absolutely no right to speak about your animal. Your not abusing it or causing it harm, and the procedure is pretty painless, and I'm sure they have some type of ointment/painkiller to help with the pain.

Really, if they bother you about it, tell them that they obviously don't know what they are talking about and don't have a right to speak about it.  :Wink:

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## starmom

> What works for one person isn't going to work for another.  I used to bruise so easily that a friendly squeeze of a hand would leave marks on my arms.  A thick tail whapping on my leg would leave bruises like baseballs.
> I don't see how a missing tail really affects most dogs in the least, as long as it's done within the 3-7 days of birth.  I've watched pups getting tails and dewclaws docked, and most were more distressed over being picked up than they were about having their appendage snipped off.
> I never saw a pup yet that seemed distressed over NOT having a tail.  They grow up with no tail, so how would they miss it?  Yes, it's mostly a cosmetic procedure(unless it's done later in life because of injury), but it's not exactly a issue to the dog.


I honestly don't know why you think that a Rottie's tail would bruise anyone...  :Confused2: 

It is my opinion that the question is not: "Does the dog miss the tail that has been cut off for cosmetic reasons?" but rather "Is this the right thing to do to a dog and are the reasons for the action ethical and justified?"  :Smile:

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## wolfy-hound

I think ANY dog's tail can bruise some people.  Why do you assume that because you don't get any bruises from your dog's tail that no one ever would get a bruise from a dog's tail?  I've gotten bruises from tails before, not from rotties, because most the rotties I know don't have tails(stubby things, not tails), but other similar dogs, including mixes, or labs, or other larger sized breeds have indeed bruised my legs, and arms in some cases.
I'm not saying to dock a dog's tail to prevent bruising your legs, but still, it can happen, and tails do indeed swipe stuff off tables in some cases too.
Again, if it's someone choice to dock a pup's tail, and it's not illegil, then they should go for it.  If you don't want to dock your dog's tail, then leave it.

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## Pandora

When I was younger, I used to think it was mean, only because I didn't realize its purpose.

My Aussie Shep is docked because it prevents some sort of illness her breed is susceptible to.

I don't necessarily support it being done for aesthetic purposes but I'm not necessarily against it either.

I think that as long as it's done when they're first born, it's okay.

I'm sort of neutral on this matter. I wish it didn't have to be done but if there's a benefit, why not?

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## starmom

> I think ANY dog's tail can bruise some people.  Why do you assume that because you don't get any bruises from your dog's tail that no one ever would get a bruise from a dog's tail?  I've gotten bruises from tails before, not from rotties, because most the rotties I know don't have tails(stubby things, not tails), but other similar dogs, including mixes, or labs, or other larger sized breeds have indeed bruised my legs, and arms in some cases.
> I'm not saying to dock a dog's tail to prevent bruising your legs, but still, it can happen, and tails do indeed swipe stuff off tables in some cases too.
> Again, if it's someone choice to dock a pup's tail, and it's not illegil, then they should go for it.  If you don't want to dock your dog's tail, then leave it.


You're making some major leaps. I was talking about the tail of a Rottweiler- not _any_ dog's tail. I was speaking from experience with my rottie and other people's rotties who have tails. Nope- no bruising on anyone. Their tails just aren't like that. I have experience with this and so I am telling my experience. 

I think that if a person can bruise so easily maybe they should get a cat  :Wink:

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## iCandiBallPythons

I have apbt's and all of their ears are cropped ( for cosmetic only) I just think it really brings their looks out as with dobi's. PPL will always find something to complain at other people about. Also theres  alot of very cynical and hypocritical PPL  out there that really have crap else to do .

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SlitherinSisters (01-12-2009)

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## Blu Mongoose

I showed Danes for years. I don't like putting them thru the process. But after a few days they're fine. It makes such a gorgeous head piece. I've had uncropped danes, but I will always favor cropped. I would rather see an animal cropped and docked then abused or neglected. People normally get the breeds that are cropped because they like the look. Here is one of my past kids.

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SlitherinSisters (01-12-2009)

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## danimal

That's a nice looking Dane!

As far as the tails go- my GSD can wag his tail with fury, but it never hurts you. It's got thick fur on it and that softens the blows when they hit you. The Dane's tail is like a whip, and she wags it so hard that it hits her on each side with a loud "thump".

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## Typical_08

> You're making some major leaps. I was talking about the tail of a Rottweiler- not _any_ dog's tail. I was speaking from experience with my rottie and other people's rotties who have tails. Nope- no bruising on anyone. Their tails just aren't like that. I have experience with this and so I am telling my experience. 
> 
> I think that if a person can bruise so easily maybe they should get a cat


Is a Rottie a fairly large dog? Does their tail wag? 

Are you going to tell us that because it tends to curv up, this can not happen? 



Our pup D.O.G has a tail that behaves in much the same fashion as a Rotties does, It has cleared our coffee table, knocked over our youngest (the kid learned to stay out from behind the dog, and the dog learned not to stay put if the kid was behind him), and several other things.

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## starmom

I am only relaying my experiences  :Smile: 

A Rotties tail is not like a pits tail and is more like a golden's tail (again, relaying my direct experiences). My rottie has not knocked things over with his tail, has not knocked over any of my grandchildren with his tail, and has never caused pain and/or bruising with his tail. 

As for size, my rottie is 1.5 years of age, is a male, and currently weighs 110 pounds. 

Will I say it will never happen? Lol!! I am old enough to know to never say never!! Can I say it has not happened with my rottie? Yes.

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## SlitherinSisters

Thanks for the comments everyone! It's been too long since I checked on the thread otherwise I would respond to everyone individually. I went to a hockey game on Sat, and a Globe Trotters game yesterday  :Dancin' Banana: 

I will say that we wanted a dobe because of their brains and their look. Like I said before I wouldn't have bought her from a breeder that didn't crop/dock her dogs.

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## SGExotics

I hate those people who think cropping & docking is bad! The cutting and shaping of the tail and ears goes way back in history... After so long of a certain type of dog getting its ears cropped and tail docked, its become tradition  :Smile:  And you should never break a tradition  :Smile:  For instance, i hate the look of a rottie with its tail...The reason the tails were cut in the first place was because farmers kept their money sacks strapped to their back, and a criminal wasnt able to grab the dogs tail to hold it an grab the money sack...  Back in history these parts were altered by humans for certatin tasks and have become as i said Traditon... I have an Mastiff, and naturally they are soo BIG and SCARY looking, that back, hundreds of years ago, when they were used as guard dogs they didnt need to be altered to look scarier... lol But smaller mastiffs such as cane corsos in Italy had their ears and tail cut to look scarier because they weren't as big... I know in few years when i get a Baby Italian Mastiff, the ears are getting Professionally cropped, and the tail is getting cropped... Again, Tradition comes into play  :Smile:

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## mainbutter

> I hate those people who think cropping & docking is bad! The cutting and shaping of the tail and ears goes way back in history... After so long of a certain type of dog getting its ears cropped and tail docked, its become tradition  And you should never break a tradition


Tradition, like slavery, voting rights, dictatorships, torture, among other things?

I don't really give a hoot about tradition.  Doing something just because it has been done before isn't very logical.

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_katiadarling_ (01-12-2009),_Pandora_ (01-12-2009),_SecurityStacey_ (01-12-2009)

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## wolfy-hound

> The reason the tails were cut in the first place was because farmers kept their money sacks strapped to their back, and a criminal wasnt able to grab the dogs tail to hold it an grab the money sack...


That's not the story I had found.  "Way back when"... there was a tax on dogs kept for sport. (pointers, setters) Dogs kept by farmers were exempt and the way you could say yours was a farming/herding dog was to dock the tail.  That's why many herding dogs ended up with docked tails.  Rotties were known as butcher's dogs and they were primarily herding dogs, although the bit about the owners putting the purse on the dog's collar is correct.  Mainly because it was so difficult to get the purse away from the dog, unless you were the owner.
That's the original story as I researched it way back when.

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## sekaiNdobes

Easy... I say that my dogs are from a responsible breeder.  And any responsible breeder of Dobermans has puppies cropped - it's the breed standard, and I can't think of many responsible breeders that don't show or work their dogs.  

At the time of docking, a breeder has no way of knowing which puppy is going to be a show dog, and which is going to be a pet... so they all get docked.  Not to mention that dobe tails consist of bone, a bit of muscle, some thin skin, and a bit of hair.  They have NO protection, enthusiastic wagging can lead to tails splitting open... and once they're open, they're next to impossible to heal.  I've known too many dogs with similar tails (greyhounds) that have had to go through painful amputations as adults to feel ANY shred of remorse for my dobes being docked at three days old.

As for cropping... it's my right, it's the breed standard, and it's how the founder and creator of the breed intended them to look.  I like a properly cropped ear - it's visually appealing, and it's a visual deterrant.  I don't *want* my dogs to look "soft" or "friendly"... part of the reason I have them is for protection, and to intimidate would-be attackers!

Properly cropped ears are not as traumatic as hack jobs.  A good cropper will crop ears with such skill and finesse that the puppies are back to their antics in a few hours.  I've seen puppies grabbing other puppies by the cone and flipping them around, I've seen puppies ram their cones into their littermates to make them fall down.  I've seen entire litters of puppies dive into their food voraciously after cropping... a puppy in agony would do none of these things.

The ears heal in 7-10 days.  The rest of the time it's posting.  Sure, the posts are irritating at first, but so are collars - point is, the dogs get over it pretty quickly.

And come on... how cool is a dobe with a nice crop?  I mean really....





Ilsa's crop - done by the same person, but her ears were naturally very short... so there wasn't much the cropper could do with them, length-wise!

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## Blu Mongoose

Very nice dobe!

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## sekaiNdobes

Thanks Blu!  The first two photos are of my male, Ronin.  The second two are of Ilsa, my female.

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