# Colubrids > Ratsnakes >  My first snake! Not what I expected ...

## Phillydubs

Well I am in preparation for my first ball python which lead me here a few weeks ago and I have been loving this site and the hobby so far. 

I have a lot going on in my life and I am trying to get settled into a new place, just started a new job and the weather has been all over the place so my foray into ball pythons has sort of been on hold. Although I have purchased a cinnamon banana morph from a reputable breeder. He has been amazing in educating me answering questions and just getting me ready. Hes also caring for and keeping my new guy warm safe and well fed as we hone in on a delivery date. 

In the interim, Ive been cruising the local shops and making friends with hobbyist to see their operations and set ups and learn learn. 

Anyway I came across a guy who hadnt some young mandarin rat snakes. Needless to say the big bit me hard. Thinking about waiting maybe another few weeks even a month for my ball has had me antsy as ever. 

After handling a few and finding one I really liked and being told what seems to be very simple husbandry as I understand these snakes are rather unique and dont require the same parameters as most snakes. I ended up leaving with one ! Im stoked to say the least. 

Any current or or former keepers of these gorgeous snakes please feel free to help me, share some words of advice or just drop some knowledge I appreciate it.

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## Zincubus

So you have yourself a baby Mandarin snake or young adult or an actual adult ??

This size maybe ??



Maybe post details of your Mandarin setup and even a few photos .....The free TapaTalk app is fabulous for uploading photos free and easily 


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## Zincubus

Oddly enough , being a sucker for gorgeous colourful snakes I've been tempted to get one myself over the years .
Sadly they aren't very common in England plus I read that they weren't ideal  snakes for novices ...

From memory they're nocturnal but even in the evenings they're regarded as being very shy and retiring even more than Royals ... so not brilliant display snakes ( my preference ) and they don't really enjoy being held as I recall.. maybe totally wrong of course - I'm sure you'll be fine ..


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## Craiga 01453

Mandarin Rats are gorgeous!! They're somewhere on my maybe someday list, but have a few to add ahead of them. Congrats on a beautiful pickup, good luck.

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## Phillydubs

Here are some pictures of Bumble... I wont lie, tad of an impulse buy which I swore I wasnt going to do. Again coming from the aquarium hobby I learned quick what research and buying from reputable sources was and I said Id bring that to this hobby as well. I guess I struck out early on... that being said the guy I got him from was insanely knowledgeable and keeps all types of rare and nutty species and he was high on these. Its eating well according to him, Im going to give it a few days to feed. He just had a beautiful shed when I met him it was in the tub and full and intact. 

I do read that they like to burrow and are shy but he has taken to my handling so far and one of the reasons why I liked him and took him was that he was very mellow when I handled him both at the place and once I got him home. He roamed the tank a bit at first but I havent seen him this am and will leave him alone and give him time to settle I dont want to stress him. 

The other thing I liked was that these are cooler temp snakes and dont require a ton of heat and a lot of conditioning, or so I was told and read. Ill continue my research and getting to know my new little buddy. 

Here he/she is... BUMBLE




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_Godzilla78_ (02-25-2018),_GpBp_ (02-14-2018),_L.West_ (02-14-2018),_richardhind1972_ (02-14-2018)

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## BallPythonWannaBe

Beautiful! (Not very helpful but it's true  :Very Happy:  )

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## L.West

Wow, that is a gorgeous snake.  Congrats!!! :Smile:  :Smile:

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## Prognathodon

Congratulations! Theyre beautiful snakes!

My husband has a Vietnamese Blue Beauty, which is a related old-world rat snake, and a Stinking Goddess/Keeled ratsnake. They do better with lower ambient temps than a lot of snakes, but do still need their hot spot. When the VBB was little he spent a lot of time burrowed and/or in his hides, but once he got some growth he started coming out a lot more. Now he uses all of his 2 x 4 x 3 tall enclosure. Its decorated with artificial vines and has some quiet corners created by his PVC jungle gym and the vines, so he doesnt bother with hides. And hes become quite the busybody, often at the door watching whats going on in the room. I expect much the same from your Mandarin rat. 

The old-world rats can be feisty, but with regular steady handling theyre better. My husbands VBB has not gotten as much handling as wed like (changes in work/life, alas), and when he was out last night he was doing quite the threat display - open mouth, rattling tail, lateral compression, but wasnt really aggressive. 




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## Phillydubs

Thank you all for the kind words about Bumble! Only time will tell Im just going to do my absolute best to care for it and see where it goes. 

Im hoping to get my first ball in a few weeks when the weather cools down and I have the enclosure set and the temp all worked out. This will be good practice and a lot of fun as well and it will be fun having two different snakes two types and needs and personalities and all so I am excited. 

The guy had 2 of them in separate tubs. One acted as you described fiesty as all heck and tried to bite him and was all coiled I was like ummm... then bumble was opened and he was just a sweet explorer. Didnt even S up or anything no musking just liked to slip and slither through fingers. Hes quite tiny and I hope that I can give him all he needs and handle him often so that he keeps this disposition. It seems the younger ones are the feisty ones so maybe if hes this way now its just a sign of a cool mellow snake. As I said before he also just shed and had been eating for the guy so even as a newbie snake keeper those were all signs I knew were good. 

Ill keep posting about him as time goes on ! 

Anyone else with experience or insight please lay it on me. 


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## djansen

hell of a first snake! congrats, stunning animal.

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## AbsoluteApril

Beautiful! I've always liked those little guys. Congrats!

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## RickyNY

Very nice snake  :Good Job:

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## Slicercrush

Very pretty snake (if it hasnt been said enough yet!), I cant wait to see that ball python! I just got my first one as well, and I cant help but get excited every time I see him. Congrats and welcome to the hobby!

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## richardhind1972

Great pick up there,congratulations keep posting them great colourful pics 


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## artgecko

Nice looking snake!  No experience with them, but I would say to follow standard quarantine procedure.  I'd not do any handling until he has had at least a couple weeks to settle in and has fed for you at least 2 times consecutively.  With the glass exo terrarium, you will want to black out the back and 2 sides.  I use black contact paper for this (on the outside) or construction paper.  

As was already said, you will probably still need a hot spot, so if you are using a dome fixture for that with CHE, then be careful not to place it over glass (it will crack it).  

I would also avoid direct contact with your new BP when he arrives...I'd quarantine him in a different room away from this one just in case.

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## Phillydubs

Thank you al again for the kind words and compliments and sound advice. I was nervous about my purchase but you have all been a great help and very encouraging so thanks!!!

I plan to keep the ball in my bedroom with the rat snake in the dining / den area. I will do as you say and follow those procedures. 

Ive read a few places from current keepers that say a temp gradient is not needed for these mandarin rat snakes and is actually more of a problem than a help. Just a humidity filled hide and a steady temp room with a slight night temp drop. Apparently these snakes overheat with ease and can be harmed more than helped by a UTH or high heat source. Apparently this has been an issue with their husbandry for many years and was one of the reasons they have been deemed a hard to keep snake because people try to hard to keep them like corn snakes or milk snakes or even other types of rat snakes. Apparently the mandarin is in a league all its own. Im going to keep digging and researching as I want to do whats best for the snake. The guy I got him from actually kept him in a back area of his place near the doors because they were always opening and closing causing a cooler temp. 

One online source I found said for 3-4 months a year he drops their temp slowly to almost 55 -60 degrees then slowly brings them back to the 70 range. 

Like I said the guy who had them had him eating and having great sheds in a tub w gold humidity and a steady room temp nothing else. Sooo I need to maybe try and see what the deal is and how it works out. 


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_Godzilla78_ (02-25-2018)

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## chip07

Your best bet is to look up the climate of where they are native. While also keeping in mind their natural behaviors too if you want some of your own research. Everything I remember reading from other keepers is high humidty, low-mid 70s for temps, and substrate that isnt extremely damp or dusty. 

And a temp drop in winter is common for the old worlds especially for breeding. Right now my adult Chinese beautys are hanging out in the garage in temps ranging from 50-60. I plan on warming mine back up in the next few weeks.

I had to do all my own research for my wolf snake since no one keeps them or shares info on the species I bought. It was actually kind of fun to figure out.

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## Phillydubs

Thanks chip! You sound spot on to what I have been reading and researching thats very reassuring. I did just that looked up
Where they are from
And found and their seasonal weather and what not. Like you said part of the fun is learning and figuring it out. 

I think Im going to deepen the bed though. I went with a latte
Over an inch and hes a little
Guy but seems they really like to burrow so I may add more tonight when I get home. Apparently there is a strategy to feeding them and hiding the food to mimic their natural hunting ways 


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## Phillydubs

Quick Bumble Update - HE ATE!

first feeding attempt last night and first successful feed!

im somewhat surprised but very happy to say the least!

hes been doing well and in his hide a lot. In the am he likes to come about 1/3 out and look at me through the front as I have my morning coffee. 

Ive been playing with the humidity a bit to get it just right and it seems to be working and he is happy. He was due for a meal so I was hoping he ate but given the stress of a move and new environment I wasnt sure but Im very happy he did.

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_Alicia_ (02-18-2018),_Prognathodon_ (02-18-2018),_richardhind1972_ (02-17-2018),_Starscream_ (02-17-2018)

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## Phillydubs

Feed #2 was again successful and he seems to be settling in super nice. 

Im excited to start handling him very soon if he keeps up this progress!!

hes starting to come out a bit more. I call him the old man cause he hangs out on the stoop of the rock hide he loves. Lol

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_dakski_ (02-25-2018)

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## hilabeans

Watching them eat never gets old!  Glad first few feedings have been a breeze for you.  And since you haven't heard it yet today - he's beautiful!

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## Godzilla78

If you like him, you will love your ball python, they are very chill cuddly fatsos!  *except as snappy hatchlings, they chill out quick thoough.

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## dakski

Awesome little guy! So glad he's eating! Colubrids, once settled, rarely refuse a meal! Not like pesky BP's  :Smile: .

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## Phillydubs

> Watching them eat never gets old!  Glad first few feedings have been a breeze for you.  And since you haven't heard it yet today - he's beautiful!


Thank you so much ! Very kind!

he sure is a cool dude. I cant wait to see this red on his sides come in. 

Apparently getting them eith with the red on the sides im being told is rather rare. Cool stuff if you ask
me. 

i also have heard they can kinda be jerks. Lol. Hope this one goes against the grain in that regard.

- - - Updated - - -




> If you like him, you will love your ball python, they are very chill cuddly fatsos!  *except as snappy hatchlings, they chill out quick thoough.


I already seem to have me a fatty hes a big boy and 250 at about 5 months I believe hes got a tukkas! Lol

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> Awesome little guy! So glad he's eating! Colubrids, once settled, rarely refuse a meal! Not like pesky BP's .



I hope this is the case !! Whats your experience handling them. I know they can be flighty movers.

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## Phillydubs

Dakski... funny you ask because hes been on do not touch me until I show I can eat consistently mode. Now that he has been, I gave him time to digest from his Friday meal and had my first handling session with him today. Im new to handling snakes in general so its all an experience for me and I need to get over my nerves and issues. 

They are supposed to be a tad flighty and he was once I removed the hide. I gave him a chance to adjust to the hide being lifted and he took off a bit which was expected since this is really his first time with someone in his tank as hes exposed. Once I got a hold of him he was pretty good. I tried to keel the handling short. Towards the end he was either stressed or I was getting too cocky or close to his head and he took a slight pop at me. Soooo that was my sign that he needed to go back. Im going to try again Wednesday and then leave him alone for his Friday feed. 2 Days to digest and do it again. At least thats my plan. 

I didnt intend to get him as a
Snake to handle a ton and hang out with Per say I just loved his look and the fact that you dont see them a ton especially with his red sides. And the ease of care and husbandry. But I dont want him to never be handled and not be used to it. Hes a small baby and I think if I start a handling routine now as he grows with me he will calm down and be used to me and that way I can handle him at times and show him to folks who are interested and maintain his tank and clean it as needed without him thinking Im going to hurt him. 


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## Phillydubs

Here are some pics from his first handling session: any tips or advice is as always welcome especially from those with rat snakes or similar types and or flighty type snakes. 




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## Prognathodon

Actually, if he makes a strike at you *dont* put him back. If you do, itll teach him that being a jerk gets him put back in his enclosure. Hold on to him a little longer until hes being (relatively) well-behaved again. 

Its like hook/tap-training - snakes arent geniuses, but they can learn straightforward things. 


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_dakski_ (02-26-2018),_EL-Ziggy_ (02-26-2018)

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## Phillydubs

> Actually, if he makes a strike at you *dont* put him back. If you do, itll teach him that being a jerk gets him put back in his enclosure. Hold on to him a little longer until hes being (relatively) well-behaved again. 
> 
> Its like hook/tap-training - snakes arent geniuses, but they can learn straightforward things. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


Thats great advice and I thought about that after the fact. I guess being the first time I just reacted that way. It makes total sense though. I hope this doesnt become a routine as far as the striking but Im going to keep at it. It was nice to know it didnt hurt or anything so that will make me less anxious and shaky. 

Thank you for the thought !


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## dakski

> Dakski... funny you ask because hes been on do not touch me until I show I can eat consistently mode. Now that he has been, I gave him time to digest from his Friday meal and had my first handling session with him today. Im new to handling snakes in general so its all an experience for me and I need to get over my nerves and issues. 
> 
> They are supposed to be a tad flighty and he was once I removed the hide. I gave him a chance to adjust to the hide being lifted and he took off a bit which was expected since this is really his first time with someone in his tank as hes exposed. Once I got a hold of him he was pretty good. I tried to keel the handling short. Towards the end he was either stressed or I was getting too cocky or close to his head and he took a slight pop at me. Soooo that was my sign that he needed to go back. Im going to try again Wednesday and then leave him alone for his Friday feed. 2 Days to digest and do it again. At least thats my plan. 
> 
> I didnt intend to get him as a
> Snake to handle a ton and hang out with Per say I just loved his look and the fact that you dont see them a ton especially with his red sides. And the ease of care and husbandry. But I dont want him to never be handled and not be used to it. Hes a small baby and I think if I start a handling routine now as he grows with me he will calm down and be used to me and that way I can handle him at times and show him to folks who are interested and maintain his tank and clean it as needed without him thinking Im going to hurt him. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


First of all, baby colubrids are mostly bark and no bite. A lot of hysterics. Even they do bite you, it won't hurt, and as stated, don't put him back. It will teach him that biting gets him what he wants. 

Secondly, the best lesson for baby colubrids I can think of is SUPPORT! All snakes like to be supported, but colubrids don't have the same muscle/body makeup of say, boids. So they don't just like the support, they NEED the support. Even my adult corn snake, Figment, likes to feel completely supported when handled. Babies will want their entire body supported. They also will probably not like being squeezed, at least initially. You are big, they are small, and they know it. Their initial response is going to be SURVIVAL, thinking you will probably eat them! Once that goes away, they should calm down, but I would limit handling to short sessions initially. 

Finally, I would begin handling in the tank. I did this with my baby geckos too. They like to run, so the worst case, they run off my hand into the tank and drop an inch. 

I would pick him up and let him slither through your hands gently so he gets used to you and your scent, etc. 

Not sure the demeanor of your little guy, or his species, but this has worked well for me. 

Figment was 9G when I got him. He was flighty, but not bitey. After a couple of weeks, I could handle him no problem and he's been awesome ever since. However, I started with slow handling and observed the above rules. 

Good luck and keep us in the loop!

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_Phillydubs_ (02-26-2018)

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## Prognathodon

Putting him back after striking the one time (or down the road some day when hes having a bad day) isnt going to be a big deal, its the pattern of behavior thats important.


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## Phillydubs

> First of all, baby colubrids are mostly bark and no bite. A lot of hysterics. Even they do bite you, it won't hurt, and as stated, don't put him back. It will teach him that biting gets him what he wants. 
> 
> Secondly, the best lesson for baby colubrids I can think of is SUPPORT! All snakes like to be supported, but colubrids don't have the same muscle/body makeup of say, boids. So they don't just like the support, they NEED the support. Even my adult corn snake, Figment, likes to feel completely supported when handled. Babies will want their entire body supported. They also will probably not like being squeezed, at least initially. You are big, they are small, and they know it. Their initial response is going to be SURVIVAL, thinking you will probably eat them! Once that goes away, they should calm down, but I would limit handling to short sessions initially. 
> 
> Finally, I would begin handling in the tank. I did this with my baby geckos too. They like to run, so the worst case, they run off my hand into the tank and drop an inch. 
> 
> I would pick him up and let him slither through your hands gently so he gets used to you and your scent, etc. 
> 
> Not sure the demeanor of your little guy, or his species, but this has worked well for me. 
> ...


This is awesome and Ill be saving this for reference !!!


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_dakski_ (02-26-2018)

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## Phillydubs

> Putting him back after striking the one time (or down the road some day when hes having a bad day) isnt going to be a big deal, its the pattern of behavior thats important.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


I agree and hope so. I was gonna give him tomorrow to chill and try again on Wednesday. Then let him chill for his Friday meal. And so on and so forth. 


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## Phillydubs

So handling session #2 went really well. Thanks to all who helped with tips. He seemed much calmer and so was I and I think it went really well. He was really chill and his tongue was flying about as he just checked things out he wasnt even that flighty. He kinda wrapped all up in my hand and was having a good time. I kept him really supported. Stayed away from his head and incorporated some slow yet deliberate strokes to him as I held him so he knew he was comforted and safe. It seemed to really work well. I hope this is a sign of things to come as hes just a gorgeous creature and I love seeing him out and admiring his great colors and markings. 


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## Prognathodon

Sounds encouraging. As you progress youll get more confident on reading his body language, too.


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## Phillydubs

> Sounds encouraging. As you progress youll get more confident on reading his body language, too.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


Thanks, I sure hope so! Im learning little by little I guess it just takes time practice and patience!

today we had an interesting handling time. Im not sure why but I tried the paper towel thing because he seems to have a hell of a feed response for a little guy. Well he didnt like the roll at all and struck it about 3 times before I got rid of it. Now hes only struck me once on our first handle and I got too close to his head for sure. Maybe he didnt like the roll in front of him and near his head so he popped

usually I lift the hide and remove it and let him adjust for a few as I change his water and check on the tank. Today he stayed coiled in the hide spot and when I went to move him a bit w the roll he struck. I almost gave up on it but I didnt want him to think that striking equals he gets left alone so I let him move a bit and picked him up mid body. He was pretty good when I held him. He didnt strike me but hes def very head shy as it seems most snakes are especially colurbrids. 

So I guess no more roll. Just my usual routine cause he seemed to be doing well with that.

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## Prognathodon

Sounds good. And at that size even if he does tag you its more surprising than painful - angry velcro! 


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## Phillydubs

> Sounds good. And at that size even if he does tag you its more surprising than painful - angry velcro! 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


very true lol. I just dont want it to become a habit or a constant. I dont think it will hes a baby and it seems common for them and for the most parts hes good. Im gonna keep my routine. 

Today he seened out snd about. Tomorrow is feeding day I wonder if hes hungry and I should step up jus food. Is there a chart for colurbrids like the one for balls?

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## Phillydubs

Finally got my scale and a weight on this one... he/she. Still not sure but based on my research and apparently a difference in tail based on the sex, bumble may be a she... weighed in at 16g

Im going to start feeding two pinks a sitting every 5 days or so now... see how that goes. 

Bumble was great during handling today even rested her head on my fist. She did not like the scale though. Sat for 2 seconds in the bowl and took off. Almost dove off the table ! Then proceeded to pee and poop all over me which has never happened I guess she didnt like it. 




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