# Ball Pythons > BP Morphs & Genetics >  Axanthic Lines?

## Mischke

Okay, Ive been doing research on the axanthics and there seems there are three lines: Jolliff, TSK & VPI. They are all simple recessive, but are they compatible with each other? 

Also what are the particular pros & cons of each line? And which one do you prefer?

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## Kryptonian

As far as I know the vpi line stays the most grey colored, least likely to brown out. Thats why I prefer them and I am looking for one. I would be interested to see pics of adults from all three lines. I too would be curious to know if the lines are compatable.

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## Jsh

I voted no preference based on not knowing the particular lines. I do however like what axanthic can do to other morphs so they all rock!

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## JD Constriction

I think their are great examples of both VPI and TSK and poor examples of each.  I think if you are picky about the animal you get you will end up with a great example of an axanthic regardless of line.

Just as an example of an adult:
YouTube - Adult SK Axanthic Female "Soolie"

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## Lateralus_Love

> I think their are great examples of both VPI and TSK and poor examples of each.  I think if you are picky about the animal you get you will end up with a great example of an axanthic regardless of line.
> 
> Just as an example of an adult:
> YouTube - Adult SK Axanthic Female "Soolie"


She's a beauty if I ever saw one  :Good Job:

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## muddoc

As far as compatability is concerned, I would stick with one line.  I know for a fact that VPI and Joliff are not compatible.  I've heard that VPI and SK are not compatible either.  As for Joliff and SK, I have not heard of much documentation or attempts at this breeding, however, I would imagine that they aren't.

Also, from time to time, you may also here about D&M line Axanthics (which I don't think they were ever tested for compatability), and you will also hear about NERD line Axanthics (which are compatible with VPI line, so I'm told).

Hope that helps a bit.

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## briz

I am working with and prefer VPI line. My axanthics are coming out of my snow project which from all the snows I've seen are by far the best out there. Most will agree VPI snows are better.

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## Bluebead

Corey Woods has his line of Red Axanthics, and Mark Mandic just got the first Axanthic Pied out with an unknown female.
What a way to find out you are working with the axanthic gene.. can we say horseshoes???
Not sure on compatability tho
http://www.ballpython.ca/images/morp...cs/pieax1b.jpg

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## Bruce Whitehead

> Corey Woods has his line of Red Axanthics, and Mark Mandic just got the first Axanthic Pied out with an unknown female.
> What a way to find out you are working with the axanthic gene.. can we say horseshoes???
> Not sure on compatability tho


Red Axanthics are a co-dominant mutation, these other lines are recessive. 

Zero compatibility. 

A red would be used for a combo morph.

Bruce

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## BPHERP

Hmmm, ok what about the RMJ line? Just asking.

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## dizzy

How can the different lines not be compatable? If you breed an axanthic to an axanthic you should make axanthics, right? Is that not true of breeding one line of axanthic to another line of axanthic? Do you get all normals somehow? I'm rather confused about that.

I too would like to know which line would most likely hold their B&W look into adulthood. I desperately want to try for axanthic pieds myself... Some day...

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## Gloryhound

I prefer VPI line Axanthics.

As far as Dizzys question goes it seems that while the end results are very similar they are not exactly the same as far as their locations on the gene strand and thus not compatable.  So if you breed a Joliff line Axanthic with a VPI line Axanthic you will get a bunch of normal looking axanthics that are double het for both lines.  I'm not sure if anyone has bread two double hets together to see if a superior axanthic would come about.  It can take years to hit the odds and the end result might not be able to be told from an axanthic of one line so the only way to find out would be breeding it to a pure strain of each.  Very rough project if you ask me.

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## Mischke

> I prefer VPI line Axanthics.
> 
> As far as Dizzys question goes it seems that while the end results are very similar they are not exactly the same as far as their locations on the gene strand and thus not compatable.  So if you breed a Joliff line Axanthic with a VPI line Axanthic you will get *a bunch of normal looking axanthics that are double het for both lines.*  I'm not sure if anyone has bread two double hets together to see if a superior axanthic would come about.  It can take years to hit the odds and the end result might not be able to be told from an axanthic of one line so the only way to find out would be breeding it to a pure strain of each.  Very rough project if you ask me.


You mean, a bunch of normals that are het for both lines, correct?

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## Akua_Ko_Nalu

I'm working with SK Line Axanthics, I picked up an absolutely incredible Male, and a decent Female. 

I don't think lineage is important, I think finding the best example is.

Here he is at 600g; The picture doesn't quite reflect how bright he is, but you get the idea.

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kenneally1 (12-14-2009)

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## Freakie_frog

> How can the different lines not be compatable? If you breed an axanthic to an axanthic you should make axanthics, right? Is that not true of breeding one line of axanthic to another line of axanthic? Do you get all normals somehow? I'm rather confused about that.
> 
> I too would like to know which line would most likely hold their B&W look into adulthood. I desperately want to try for axanthic pieds myself... Some day...


This happens because the different lines are in truth different types of mutations that effect the animal in varied degrees of the same way. 

Just because the animals closely exhibit the homozygous trait doesn't mean that they are the same genetically.

So if you look at say a lesser Mojo BEL while the combo of the two looks like a Homozygous Lesser on a genetic level they are not the same.

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## muddoc

> I am working with and prefer VPI line. My axanthics are coming out of my snow project which from all the snows I've seen are by far the best out there. Most will agree VPI snows are better.


Even though I am partial to VPI line animals, and breed many of them, I would have to disagree with your above statement.  The best looking Snow that I have ever seen is a SK line Snow that was hatched by Ralph Davis.  I am however, working with some VPI Snow animals.




> Corey Woods has his line of Red Axanthics, and Mark Mandic just got the first Axanthic Pied out with an unknown female.
> What a way to find out you are working with the axanthic gene.. can we say horseshoes???
> Not sure on compatability tho
> http://www.ballpython.ca/images/morp...cs/pieax1b.jpg


Actually Marc was able to trace back his Het Pied animals to Steve Roussis, who I believe was able to find out that the lineage actually had a possibility of carrying Axanthic genes.  So, his animals are from a known line of Axanthic (I don't know which line it was).  Don't quote me on this, but I believe that was the correct story.

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## Gloryhound

> You mean, a bunch of normals that are het for both lines, correct?


Yes.  Het for VPI Axanthic and Het for Joliff axanthic.  I do not think this has been done on purpose to date since the breeder selling the offspring would be hard pressed to identify what line they would be selling down the road when they bred these babies back to each other.  You could not even claim them as a new line as one offspring could be Joliff and the other VPI without any het trait for the other creating a case where the offspring bred back together would create all normals which if you didn't know the genetics would lead a person to believe they are not genetic.

Now I think I am confussing myself!  :Confused:

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## Weapon-x

Can anyone who knows an adult or sub-adult for the other lines (Joliff, VPI, and if they exist D&M NERD) Axanthics post pics so we can compare?

I'd really like to see how they look as they grow into adulthood.

Thanks in advance

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## AceOfSpadesB.P.

I prefer V.P.I. line...I have two Axanthic of VPI and they are GREAT ANIMALS.

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## JD Constriction

Most of this is hearsay so bear with me.  :Smile: 

NERD compatible w/ VPI
D&M compatible w/ SK

Also Jollif has been proven to not be compatible with VPI (there are double hets and possible double hets running around).

On record the only SK to VPI breeding was het to het.  6 eggs.  No Axanthics.  Long odds to say for sure that they aren't compatible.  I had heard Graziani and Micheal Cole were going to try homozygous to homozygous breedings to prove it out for sure this year but haven't heard how that's going.

Overall I'd say the best axanthic line is buying into a particular animal that has the coloration you are looking for, a good price, and is from a reliable source.  I think if you do that you'll be very happy with whichever line you choose  :Very Happy: 




> Can anyone who knows an adult or sub-adult for the other lines (Joliff, VPI, and if they exist D&M NERD) Axanthics post pics so we can compare?
> 
> I'd really like to see how they look as they grow into adulthood.
> 
> Thanks in advance

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## rjs73

I am working with the VPI line. Here is a pic of a 3 year old male VPI axanthic breeding a spider this year.

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## Hyper Joe

It is hard to tell which is the best in these pics. They should put them next to a normal BP to contrast the colors or lack there of. 

I favor the VPI line by far. Seeing the other lines in person the VPI line holds its axanthic look the most. I don't know about the snows though. I haven't seen/compared them in person (since pics sometimes do not do the animal justice).

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## BPHERP

This particular line of axanthics was not listed in the poll, but here's my RMJ line (John Martino/RMJ Reptiles) 2008 axanthic male.

http://www.b-p.org/balls/**breakingl...j_axanthic.jpg

Brandon

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## Freakie_frog

I'm working with the VPI line my self

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## T&C Exotics

I voted no preference only because I love red axanthics and think any other axanthics pale next to them. Recessive or co-dom does no bother me at all... I love what I love and no others will replace hem in my mind ya know. I have never ben a fan of the lines mentioned besides the reds because they lose so much color no matter which line that I have seen. Even the reds do but they hold a good color as adults that is a reddish tint kinda. Thats just my thoughts I know a lot of people will disagree with me oh well....

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## AaronP

I voted No Preference mainly because I've seen fantastic examples of all of them, it'll just be which ever line I end up with first will be the one I work with.

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## mechnut450

No preference  but I am/will be working with the jol line since  at the time I didn't know they had different lines for th axanthic morph.  I want o get a axanthic pied  as well so Iam worknigon that possible morph  (Which I know  other will release befoer I can actually prove one out lol.  I will also  work on a snow projectand poosible a snow pied  ( which would be a triple resssiive  morph) 

IfI get to ogo to a reptile show this year I want ot look for a lesser or mojo but i know that it most likey nt happen since both are up there in price.

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## rodentslayer

Its not listed on there....but the VPI BLACK axanthic gets my vote all the way.  I believe there's a vid of one on youtube under J. Kobylka reptiles.  Smokin hot all black snake.  That would produce some amazing combos.  I think Adam with 8ball has one too.  I think thats gonna be the future with axanthic combos for sure.

later
Jordan

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## WingedWolfPsion

Brandon, link doesn't work.

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## JAMills

> Its not listed on there....but the VPI BLACK axanthic gets my vote all the way.  I believe there's a vid of one on youtube under J. Kobylka reptiles.  Smokin hot all black snake.  That would produce some amazing combos.  I think Adam with 8ball has one too.  I think thats gonna be the future with axanthic combos for sure.
> 
> later
> Jordan


Correct me if I am wrong but The VPI Black Axanthic is actually out of the same line as the regular VPI as stated on one of the blogtalkradio/reptileradio shows by Tracy. 

I will agree though the Black Axanthic is smokin'!

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_kellysballs_ (07-06-2010)

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## AaronP

> Correct me if I am wrong but The VPI Black Axanthic is actually out of the same line as the regular VPI as stated on one of the blogtalkradio/reptileradio shows by Tracy. 
> 
> I will agree though the Black Axanthic is smokin'!


Black Axanthics are a seperate recessive morph.  VPI Originated them but they are not to be confused with your standard VPI Axanthics.  I've seen them in person and trust me, they're awesome.

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## Akua_Ko_Nalu

> Black Axanthics are a seperate recessive morph.  VPI Originated them but they are not to be confused with your standard VPI Axanthics.  I've seen them in person and trust me, they're awesome.


They sure are awesome animal's, Aaron!

I've got a pair of TSK Axanthics and a pair of Black Axanthics, they're gonna do totally different things!

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## jkobylka

Black Axanthics are going to redefine axanthic combos! The combos from other axanthic lines are awesome, but like Dave said above, it will be apples and oranges. Another completely new look to work into everything!

Justin

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## Toronto Python Gurus

I got all VPI's over here and I'm not complaining  :Wink:

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## Bruce Whitehead

I have two VPI hets, and have seen the offspring produced by this line, and by the breeder that is working with them (all descended from one het male), and they are killer. I really like them.

I see pics and think that must have been p-shopped as they are actually black, white and grey, then see them in person and think... "hmmm, those are black, white and grey". 

But ask me next season after I hatch a few out, I do not doubt that I will be that much more into them.  :Smile: 

Bruce

PS: Both of mine are possible het hypos... so what could be better than that?

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## ballbreeder

This is a Pastel 50% het VPI Axanthic I recieved from VPI.  Amazing Yellows!!

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## Kyle@theHeathertoft

Oh man, VPI all the way. Someday I'd LOVE to get a few VPI axanthic hets and try for one of their beauties.

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## BPHERP

> Black Axanthics are going to redefine axanthic combos! The combos from other axanthic lines are awesome, but like Dave said above, it will be apples and oranges. Another completely new look to work into everything!
> 
> Justin


The axanthic male I have is pretty dark, and is staying dark as he gets older. This is the Axanthic line from RMJ Reptiles; I acquired a male and 2 hets last year:



BrandonsBalls

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## mommanessy247

brandonsballs- that is one awesome looking snake there. very, very, very cool.

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_BPHERP_ (07-05-2010)

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## kellysballs

We are working with TSK line of Axanthics and I have to say I am very pleased with the animals we have produced. Jacki on our website is a pastel axanthic female we hatched in 2008. I can say that I purchased a 1.1 pair of visual TSKL Axanthics and I was not impressed. I sold of the female since she was not as nice as the male. The male he is okay at best. Here are some pics of what we have produced.
This is Helen we produced her last year (09) and she is about 500g now.


This is the male I purchased.


And here is Jacki at 800g(pastel axanthic)


As you can see their is quite a difference between okay and a very good quality axanthic, and these guys are of the same line.

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## steelersdiehard

D&M and TSK are compatible proven a few years back. To my knowledge these are the only two line that are compatible.

Brent
BRB Reptiles

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