# Feeders > Breeding Mice >  Do you separate pregnant mice?

## Beardedragon

So, to start the forum off, i think id like to start a frequently asked question. Do you separate pregnant mice from the rest of the other mice?

Why do you do so or not?

I do not, and have had great results. I keep 6+ mice per tub and rotate my super stud male between my two tubs without any problems. They all have their babies withen a week or so and I have had hundreds of mice this way. ( no worries about me having one snake, I sell most of what Lesser does not eat off for a buck each.)  I also touch my baby's after day three, and do not have any problems. 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=7p6ZAd2glp8

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## ctrlfreq

> So, to start the forum off, i think id like to start a frequently asked question. Do you separate pregnant mice from the rest of the other mice?


Yes, but mainly because of our breeding style, and space limitations.   We tend to let the girls get knocked up in a number of tubs that have about a 50/50 m/f ratio, and then move the visibly pregnant ones to a single tub once a week.  This way they all drop their litters around the same time and cross-nurse, and that way we can have 10-15 litters all wean and get sexed at the same time.

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## Beardedragon

> I do *not,* and have had great results. I keep 6+ mice per tub and rotate my super stud male between my two tubs without any problems.



After reading that again I thought it might be a little confusing, I mean I do not separate :Wink: 

Ctrl,  So you have a bin full of mice and once you see pregnant mice you put them in a different tub with other pregos? Good idea if im not intercepting that wrong :Good Job:  I think I might do that actually, my rack gets annoying and Ive wanted to put all my mice together.

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## dracovolans

I keep mine in 1.5 groups and remove each prego to her own tub. For each male I have 10 females, 5 at time. Wean babies at 21 days and leave moms to rest until all 5 are togheter. When the    2nd group of 5 females with the male are in their own prego tub I add the first 5 females.

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## Argentra

I use trios of 1.2 and keep everyone together at all times with great results. I have had a few acts of cannibalism, but that was done by my older breeders who had worn out. 

I will be switching to mostly rat breeding soon, tho, as I now have larger BPs and it's just easier to feed them one small rat rather than 3 large mice per feeding.  :Smile:  I will be keeping one trio of mice, tho, for future hatchlings and picky eaters.

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## MarkS

I keep my breeding groups together always.  I start new groups together and when they get a little worn out I retire the whole group together. When I've tried to move new mice into an already established group I've had problems with them killing the newcomers.  Not always, and frankly not even most of the time, but more often then I like to see.  I just think it's disruptive to an established group.  

I do like the idea though of having tubs of females with lots of males to produce pinkies.  My main goal in breeding mice is to produce mainly weanling to adult sized mice for my colubrids and baby ball pythons, so when I wean the young mice I set them up separated by sex to grow for a few more weeks.  It might be a good idea to throw a few males in a couple of the female grow out tubs and pull all the preggers when feeding day comes around.

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## blackcrystal22

> So, to start the forum off, i think id like to start a frequently asked question. Do you separate pregnant mice from the rest of the other mice?
> 
> Why do you do so or not?
> 
> I do not, and have had great results. I keep 6+ mice per tub and rotate my super stud male between my two tubs without any problems. They all have their babies withen a week or so and I have had hundreds of mice this way. ( no worries about me having one snake, I sell most of what Lesser does not eat off for a buck each.)  I also touch my baby's after day three, and do not have any problems. 
> 
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=7p6ZAd2glp8


I'm jealous. My female breeder is super bitey (she didn't used to be until she had babies) and the babies, when they grow to be.. hoppers they do just that. THEY DON'T STOP JUMPING.
When I try to take one out I HAVE to hold its tail too, or it will fly away. D: 

I try to keep only the main male, and two females (with their babies) in one cage, and the younger non-breeding feeders that were the babies of the originals in another cage.

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## Stewart_Reptiles

I keep 2 females per tubs and rotate the male (he spends 2 weeks at the time in each of the 3 tubs he is assigned)

I can check on the babies soon as they are born without any issue.

I have been very successful this way, I have tried harem before but have failed each time.

Bottom line it all about finding what works and with mice it can take time and be tricky.

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## Pork Chops N' Corn Bread

My mouse colony stays together all the time. Eliminates the risk of them fighting on reintroduction atleast.

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## cassandra

I separate pregger moms when they are ready to drop. When I first started out, I had a 1.2 in  10 gallon and everybody/somebody nommed down all the babies when one of the moms dropped.

Last fall, I left .2 in a 20L stay together as they were gonna drop within days of each other. As one mom took over both litters, it took FOREVER for the babies to mature because they weren't getting the same quantity of food as they would have if there less babies per mom.

So, I always separate and have great results. I keep my buck in a shoebox size kritter keeper and when I'm ready for a girlie to be pregnant, I pop her in with him. When she looks preggers, I pull her out and into her own shoebox kritter keeper. When those babies are ready to wean, I divide and put the boys in my male grow out enclosure and the girls and moms in the girl enclosure. Rinse repeat.

Granted I don't have many snakes to feed on mice (a cornsnake and when she wants a mouse, a bp), but I've got a crapton of mice in the freezer ready to eat. =)

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## Jenn

I don't recall learning the term "crapton" in math class. How many mice in a crapton? 

I have done it both ways, but seperate the pregos now. I usually drop a big fattie in a tub with a non-prego sister and they both raise the kids.

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## snakemanjayd

Nice thread.
It's been really helpful.
Am just about to start my own breedin colony.

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## dadspets

No I do not seperate. I have small colony's of mice I work with. My colony's consist of 1 male to 3  females.

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## Bettacreek

Figure that now since I offically have my feeder colony up and running again, I can contribute. I seperate the females once they get large enough (usually drop within a few days). So far, I plan to put two females per 20qt Sterilite tub.

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## truthsdeceit

My females have there own tubs 1 or 2 per tub and my male rotates.

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## Brandon Osborne

Most commercial rodent breeders keep groups of 1.5 for weanling production.  I have seen "pinky factories" in groups of 1.15+.  If you are separating mice, you are limiting your production efficiency.  Keep them together.  By the time you pull weaners, you'll have pinkies a few days later.  As some have mentioned, females will nurse any baby within its colony.

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## truthsdeceit

> If you are separating mice, you are limiting your production efficiency.


Sometimes that's a good thing. I don't know what i'd do if my mice all had back to back pregnacies. I only have 3 snakes so rotating my male mouse lets me control how many mice I get vs. how many I need.

But yeah, if you need a 'crapton' of mice then keeping established colonies is probably the way to go.

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## Brandon Osborne

> Sometimes that's a good thing. I don't know what i'd do if my mice all had back to back pregnacies. I only have 3 snakes so rotating my male mouse lets me control how many mice I get vs. how many I need.
> 
> But yeah, if you need a 'crapton' of mice then keeping established colonies is probably the way to go.


True.  But instead of rotating, why not just keep less females?  In your case, I would assume 1.2  or 1.3 would feed your animals quite well depending on your schedule.

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## truthsdeceit

> True.  But instead of rotating, why not just keep less females?  In your case, I would assume 1.2  or 1.3 would feed your animals quite well depending on your schedule.


Probably true but... *shrug*

I have more luck rotating than I did keeping colonies. My male (or maybe the females) killed the children when I didn't remove him. That was a long time ago. 

I just started up a new set of tubs. I'd been buying frozen for a while but decided to start up breeding mice again. And this time I've been having luck with the rotation thing.

and I also have four different sizes available at all times this way. Instead of Just one group of births at a time.

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## Bettacreek

Why wear the females out if you don't have to? It's not going to hurt to give mice a break, which most will argue prolongs the breeding life of the rodents anyways, plus you can produce healthier stock without overbreeding everyone.

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## Brandon Osborne

> Why wear the females out if you don't have to? It's not going to hurt to give mice a break, which most will argue prolongs the breeding life of the rodents anyways, plus you can produce healthier stock without overbreeding everyone.


Says who?  How is healthier stock achieved with less breeding?  They all wear out around the same age.  They have a peak production age and once the peak is hit, they taper off until they die.  Keep them long enough and you'll see.  I only speak from experience.....and some of that experience comes from the largest rodent supplier in the U.S.  I'm not trying to be harsh, I'm just trying to make things easier for some of you.  Oh well.  Do what is best for you and you'll be fine.

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## truthsdeceit

> Says who?  How is healthier stock achieved with less breeding?  They all wear out around the same age.  They have a peak production age and once the peak is hit, they taper off until they die.  Keep them long enough and you'll see.  I only speak from experience.....and some of that experience comes from the largest rodent supplier in the U.S.  I'm not trying to be harsh, I'm just trying to make things easier for some of you.  Oh well.  Do what is best for you and you'll be fine.


I don't have experience with this because I don't do it. But I don't  do it because I've been told that back to back pregnacies impair the mother mouses ability to gain enough nutrition/weight to raise her young properly. 

The toll on her body when she's both feeding a litter and prego is passed on to the health of the young. They don't grow up as strong or as fast because she can't feed them properly. It makes sense.

But like I said this is word of mouth/opinion on my part. 

Just thought I'd share.

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## Brandon Osborne

Maybe I'm just used to a really good strain of mouse.  It does make a difference.  The original animals in the strain I used to work with were $2.50 each for 21 day old mice.  They grow big and strong, produce large litters, and when retired weigh around 60 grams.  Harlan grows some super mice.

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## Bettacreek

Constant stress on the uterus isn't good for a female. If she's pregnant with a litter, she can't give 100% to the already born litter, plus the fact that they have to be seperated from her at 3 weeks, when they could otherwise stay with her and nurse full-term.

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## Brandon Osborne

Three weeks is full-term.

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## WingedWolfPsion

Brandon's right, 3 weeks is weaning time--there's no need to keep them with mom longer, she'll just force them to stop nursing quite soon.  They're already eating solid food by then.  If you really want your mom mouse to have a break, remove the babies at 3 weeks, she'll have a few days to recover from nursing before she goes into heat again.

I keep mine in colonies, though, it saves space, and I also keep the male in with them permanently, as I've had bad luck with my females killing or castrating unfamiliar males.  I don't see much reason to keep females producing after about 4 litters, anyhow, so there's no time for them to develop any issues from being rebred immediately.

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## mischevious21

Well, I breed rats not mice, but I sometimes do and osmetimes don't. It depends. But I ALWAYS make sure that they are seperated from the male at that point, to avoid any back-to-back pregnancys.

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## Brandon Osborne

> Well, I breed rats not mice, but I sometimes do and osmetimes don't. It depends. But I ALWAYS make sure that they are seperated from the male at that point, to avoid any back-to-back pregnancys.



Rats are a different scenario.

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## amon

> After reading that again I thought it might be a little confusing, I mean I do not separate
> 
> Ctrl,  So you have a bin full of mice and once you see pregnant mice you put them in a different tub with other pregos? Good idea if im not intercepting that wrong I think I might do that actually, my rack gets annoying and Ive wanted to put all my mice together.


This part is not confusing, but your title question and the poll answers is switched, you see what I mean? :ROFL: 

Back to serious.  I keep them together, even the male.

My experience is that any new comer to an established group will get biten, sometime till death, both male and female. I envy you can move your male around.

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## MarkS

> Rats are a different scenario.


Agreed, don't get rats and mice mixed up.  They each need to be handled differently.  In my experience, rats are much less territorial and more accepting of strange rats being added to their groups so I haven't had as much trouble separating and later re-introducing them to each other.

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## gothkenny

Ahh, whoops. I said I seperate but I meant to click that I don't... well, at aleast, I WON'T be. I'll be picking up my trio maybe tomorrow.  :Smile:

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## Doxster

Thought I'd join in on this thread as I recently bought my first mice colonies.

A little while back i bought 17 ball pythons from BHB Reptiles, they did an awesome job at switching most of the little ones to take f/t prey but not all of them. So after about 3 weeks of stress out of wondering when they all would start to eat I managed to convince my gf that I could breed mice. Woohoo my first step towards getting really serious with my hobby!  :Very Happy: 

Said and done, i went and bought 5 labb cages, 3 for the breeding colonies and 2 for future growouts. I made a post on a Swedish (yes I'm a viking!) reptile site about wanting to purchase mice at breeding size, I instantly got a reply from a woman, she said she had the 3.15 mice i was looking for, and apparently a really good strain. Labb mice of some sort that grow bigger, tumour (spelling?) less and got big litters, according to her they drop litters of 20-30 individuals when on the diet she is using. To me this sounds like alot but I'm new at this so I don't know.

Anyhow I keep them all in 1.5 colonies and I will keep them like this permanently. I've had them for about a week now and from day two I saw the male in each colony chasing the females like a madman (madmice?) around the cages, so hopefully I'll have my first fatties in about 14 days or so. Sounds accurate?

Pictures and updates will be posted once I see a change.

-D

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## snakelady

21 days.  :Smile:

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