# Feeders > Breeding Mice >  How Long Can a Pinky Survive

## OctagonGecko729

Hello all,

Ok, so I just received a wonky wobbling Leopard Spider that was overnighted (tieing herself in knots). I purchased two live pinky mice 3-4 hours ago for her to eat. She is avoiding them and showing no interest. I currently have one pinky in with her that i put in a section of the cage that is 80F. The Leopard Spider is probably 1-2months old and 54 grams. She also has a lump at the base of the tail approximately the size of a pinky.

 To be honest I suspect this breeder who will remain nameless at the moment assist fed her a pinky two days ago, boxed her up with a heat pack, scheduled for a driver to come pick her up on wednesday which didnt arrive, left this girl in the box in his house overnight, and then shipped her out on thursday to arrive today around 12pm.

Please advise me on where to go from here. Should I move the pinky to the cool side? How long can the pinky stay in with my girl? Should I attempt to feed off the pinky(s) to my 280+ females? 

Appreciate any and all responses.

Thanks,

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## youbeyouibei

That sucks to read your girl is in the condition she is and if indeed the breeder did what you suspect, shame on them at the very least. As far as the pinky goes, I wouldn't leave it much longer than overnight. If it hasn't been eaten by that point, you could euthanize it via cervical dislocation or a sharp flick on the head to kill it and then freeze it for a later attempt at feeding. I would *not* offer it or the other pinky to your established collection once they've been offered/in contact with your new arrival. If the breeder treated that animal in the manner in which you suspect, I wouldn't count on their husbandry practices being up to par and why risk exposing your other animals to something if that new girl is a carrier? I would keep an eye on your new girl for a possible regurge but hopefully that won't come to pass. If it doesn't, I would try small live prey such as mouse crawlers or fuzzies even; that might stimulate more of a feeding response than what does a pinky, given how lethargic and inactive they can be and such a small heat/prey odor signature from them versus a slightly larger prey. Good luck with her and I hope she is and stays healthy for you and takes to feeding with no trouble.

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_OctagonGecko729_ (02-08-2013),sakasuvaki (02-09-2013)

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## Don

Did you receive the snake today and try to feed the same day?  It is no wonder it did not eat. Transportation can be fairly traumatic on a baby snake and you should give them at least a couple of days to settle in.  Most people give them a week before attempting to feed. 

Pinkies do not last very long, a couple days at most. Give it some time before feeding. Spiders will exhibit more sever wobble when nervous and this baby is very nervous from its trip.

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_Adam Chandler_ (02-08-2013),_joebad976_ (02-09-2013),_OctagonGecko729_ (02-08-2013)

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## KMG

I would let her be for a few days. Being shipped then getting a new home is alot to take in. And if you suspect the breeder force fed or even just fed it before being shipped why are you trying to feed it again? Give it time to relax and settle in. I would ask the breeder what the last feeding was regardless. That is just good to know. I would also ask what was being fed, f/t or live?

As for the pinks I agree with ubuibi, don't feed it to your collection, just kill and freeze.

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_OctagonGecko729_ (02-08-2013),_youbeyouibei_ (02-09-2013)

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## TJ_Burton

False; pinkies can't survive.

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## OctagonGecko729

Ah, really not looking forward to having to flick to euthanize. Only one of the two pinkies was given to the leopard spider. Should I attempt to feed the other pinky to my smallest girl? She is probably about 260g. 

@Don - Yeah I know they usually do not eat after being shipped and about the wobble being worse when they get stressed. I figured I'd attempt to feed her because she is incredibly skinny with the exception of the bulge at the base of her tail which worries me. Our enchi bumblebee fed the first day she got in and also has never displayed any wobble. I understand it is a case by case thing though. I was just being optimistic and now I'm really regretting buying two pinkies.

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## Rob

> False; pinkies can't survive.

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_TJ_Burton_ (02-08-2013)

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## OctagonGecko729

> I would let her be for a few days. Being shipped then getting a new home is alot to take in. And if you suspect the breeder force fed or even just fed it before being shipped why are you trying to feed it again? Give it time to relax and settle in. I would ask the breeder what the last feeding was regardless. That is just good to know. I would also ask what was being fed, f/t or live?
> 
> As for the pinks I agree with ubuibi, don't feed it to your collection, just kill and freeze.


The reason we attempted to feed is that she is skin and bones. I suspect that he assist fed or force fed because of the lump at the base of her tail, it is hard which makes me worry it may be an impaction. 

Also, this breeder isn't exactly the type to answer those questions, I have asked however. He owed me cash and couldn't come up with it over a 10 month timespan, so I finally got the leopard spider as a payment.

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## OctagonGecko729

Also, I'm a little suspicious that this isn't a leopard spider. Some of the streaks closer to the tail and spotting look like leopard but the majority of the pattern just seems to be a spider.

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## satomi325

Pinks can survive up to about 3 days.

And don't feed it to your established collection. How many meals has the snake eaten since hatching? 

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

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## OctagonGecko729

> Pinks can survive up to about 3 days.
> 
> And don't feed it to your established collection. How many meals has the snake eaten since hatching? 
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


Asked the breeder that yesterday, no response. I just euthanized the second pinkie that was not in contact with the new snake by giving it to my 3ft savannah monitor (very quick). 

So now we just have the one pinky that is still in the leopard spiders cage.

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## Don

You are right that baby looks thin.  Get him in a hide, keep him a little warmer than normal and try to feed in a few days.

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_OctagonGecko729_ (02-09-2013)

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## KMG

This breeder doesn't seem like a very good one. He should have all the records on your snake and why would he not share them unless he gave u a problem feeder that he could do nothing with.

I can see your new one is thin but remember that the stress caused by trying to feed him could do more harm than good. Your intentions are good but you need to take it slow. Try again once its settled in. 

The bugle in strange, i hope its nothing serious.

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_OctagonGecko729_ (02-09-2013)

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## angllady2

Poor little lamb.

Yes the baby is very thin, and I suspect that lump is probably hard as a rock urates.  Most likely caused by dehydration.  I'd just kill the pinky and freeze it.  This baby needs a tight, warm place to relax for a few days.  I would try offering a water bowl big enough for it to soak in.  If it is dehydrated, and I'm almost sure it is, the soak will not only help hydrate the baby but may help pass those hard urates. 

Give it about 2 days of total quiet, keep peeking and fussing to an absolute minimum.  Then if the lump has not passed on it's own, see a vet.  They can lubricate the mass and help it pass.  Once that painful lump is out of the way, then you can try feeding.  Offer a crawler mouse or fuzzy rat if you can.  If the baby eats, offer food every 5 days for a few weeks until the baby fills out nicely.

It's a pity you had such a bad experience.  Sad to say, many of us have had similar ones.  We live and we learn.  I am glad you are willing to help the little one, since he/she certainly did not ask to be in this situation.

By the way, I'm going to just about guarantee that is no Leopard Spider. Leopard changes the pattern big time, and this looks to be just an average spider.  Here's a link to WOBP: http://www.worldofballpythons.com/mo...eopard-spider/

Gale

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_OctagonGecko729_ (02-09-2013),sakasuvaki (02-09-2013)

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## DooLittle

Definately let her be to settle down and adjust.  Give her a week.   If she's that stressed, she's not going to eat. Yes, she looks thin.  But I think she needs to settle in.  And if that lump doesn't pass, a vet visit is in order.  What ever she is, she's pretty.  :Smile: . Keep us posted on her.

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

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_OctagonGecko729_ (02-09-2013),sakasuvaki (02-09-2013)

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## coldbloodaddict

Definitely not a Leo Spider.

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_OctagonGecko729_ (02-09-2013),sakasuvaki (02-09-2013)

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## OctagonGecko729

Hey All,

First off, thanks for the help so far.

She took the pinkie last night that I left in with her but the urates seem to still be there. I have her in a standalone QTed 6qt tub, water bowl takes up most of the cool side (78F) and we have a very low lying black plastic lid covering the entire hot side (85F), hotspot in the hide is set to 96F. 

Would you all recommend I take her out and put her in another 6QT tub with 1/4th inch 85F water for 15-20min of soaking to pass those urates or do you think thats too much stress?

By the way, I do think she is a leopard spider but the pics we provided are not the best example of her. Here is a link similar animal to her from CBU.

http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/007...grande.jpg?228

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## youbeyouibei

I'd leave her in the tub she's in now rather than move her back and forth to a tub to soak in; that would stress her out immensely and with the temps you have in her current tub, she'd be fine to soak in her water bowl if she chooses to rather than being moved and then tossed in a tub of water. Let her digest and decompress a little and then you can start trying to get her squared away more than what she is right now. Being patient can suck but that's the best thing you can do for her right now; warm enclosure with hide(s), access to water and leave her alone until she passes her current meal and that lump, hopefully sooner rather than later. I know you mean well but the best thing you could do is keep an eye on her but otherwise leave her alone and give her a chance to relax without adding additional stress. Good luck with her and glad she ate for ya'!

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_OctagonGecko729_ (02-10-2013)

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