# Ball Pythons > BP Husbandry >  Tiny little flying black bugs

## Elise.m

I'm using Cypress Mulch that I got from the reptile shop down the road. The reptile shop is very reliable, the guy who owns it is the creator of Reptilegeeks.com, so needless to say, I trust him.

I just put the mulch in my tank yesterday, and since then I've seen these itsy bitsy black flying bugs around the house. I don't keep any fruits or vegetables outside of the fridge, so I know it's not from that. Now I've been contemplating putting more mulch in the tank, I picked up one of the hides and out came a little bug!

They're a bit smaller than gnats, but they could be gnats, I'm not sure. Should I be worried about this? Maybe the mulch is too humid? I don't know what's going on  :Crying:

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## piper

For me, I've put stuff in the oven for a few minutes before.. it can get smelly though but it will make sure nothing is living!  :Smile:

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## Bobsean

I had this problem about two weeks ago. Not with Cyprus mulch but rather with pine shavings used as bedding for my uneaten feeder mice.

The water bottle for the mice leaked and soaked the pine. A few days later i had those little black bugs every where in my apartment. I traced there source to the wet pine and disposed of it. 

I keep the unused pine elsewhere in a bag, and everything seems fine, no black bugs. This makes me think that they are moisture activated. So maybe replace your substrate and reduce the humidity in your snake enclosure?

Hope it works out!

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## CopperNightShade

Sphaerocerid flies or drain flies likely!  Both like wet and damp and dark, as well as organic material that is going bad.  

These little guys are determined, so a change of substrate is needed at this point, as they are already using it as a breeding ground.  I would wipe out the tank/cage thoroughly as well, before throwing in any more.  In addition, you need to kill the adults before they adopt any new substrate you put in.  Put out bowls of vinegar with a tiny bit of dish soap mixed in around your tank.  The vinegar will attract any adults and the soap will drown them.  Change the bowls every two or three days and keep them out til the adults are gone.

I wouldn't blame your reptile shop, by the way.  These flies probably came from the drains in you house, or outside.   :Smile:

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## HypoPita

> Sphaerocerid flies or drain flies likely!  Both like wet and damp and dark, as well as organic material that is going bad.  
> 
> These little guys are determined, so a change of substrate is needed at this point, as they are already using it as a breeding ground.  I would wipe out the tank/cage thoroughly as well, before throwing in any more.  In addition, you need to kill the adults before they adopt any new substrate you put in.  Put out bowls of vinegar with a tiny bit of dish soap mixed in around your tank.  The vinegar will attract any adults and the soap will drown them.  Change the bowls every two or three days and keep them out til the adults are gone.
> 
> I wouldn't blame your reptile shop, by the way.  These flies probably came from the drains in you house, or outside.


I had a HUGE problem with those things back home, but with my plants. They completely infested. That soap and vinegar worked pretty well. It might take a very long while. but chuck that substrate. Just watch out becuase it will seem like they are all gone...then the leftover eggs will hatch and you are swarmed again. Its not fun  :Sad:

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## Elise.m

Well, that sucks cuz I _just_ bought the bag, and haven't even gotten the snake yet. and that bag was $25!

Does the vinegar with dish soap act as a bug killer, or is it just a quick fix for the ones that are air born?

Also, I have no way of lowering my humidity cuz the only thing that's keeping it at 50% is the substrate. I suppose once I get new substrate, I can fix it.

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## I<3Dreamsicles

> For me, I've put stuff in the oven for a few minutes before.. it can get smelly though but it will make sure nothing is living!


lol. can you recommend a temperature? Today I washed my "Repti-Bark" but idk if it did the job. It did get rid of alot of dust though

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## CopperNightShade

The soap and vinegar will kill all the airborne ones, but won't work as a bug killer for the cypress bark.  

Putting the substrate in the oven might help, but it might also burn down your house. Boiling it will invite fungus and mold... running it through the dryer in a laundry bag will screw up your dryer.  In short, I am sorry, but ya gotta chuck it.

Something else...  I would look into Boric Acid.  I know it isn't dangerous to mammals, but I have no idea about reptiles.  It will kill any bug, though.  :Smile:  Ask your local vet if you can use it around the snake. If so, mix a bit into the new substrate you get to prevent reinfestation.

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## I<3Dreamsicles

> The soap and vinegar will kill all the airborne ones, but won't work as a bug killer for the cypress bark.  
> 
> Putting the substrate in the oven might help, but it might also burn down your house. Boiling it will invite fungus and mold... running it through the dryer in a laundry bag will screw up your dryer.  In short, I am sorry, but ya gotta chuck it.
> 
> Something else...  I would look into Boric Acid.  I know it isn't dangerous to mammals, but I have no idea about reptiles.  It will kill any bug, though.  Ask your local vet if you can use it around the snake. If so, mix a bit into the new substrate you get to prevent reinfestation.


No you really dont have to chuck it. They dont even know if the bugs came from the bark. Theyre all over the house and one happened to be in the tank. Secondly, You dont have to BOIL it, you can rinse it with water

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## CopperNightShade

> No you really dont have to chuck it. They dont even know if the bugs came from the bark. Theyre all over the house and one happened to be in the tank. Secondly, You dont have to BOIL it, you can rinse it with water



Rinsing it won't get rid of the eggs.  They are attached to the bark with organic glue that the female flies secrete.  Water alone won't touch it.  And as I said (if you read my post) it shouldn't be boiled cause that will cause more harm than good.

Look.  If you want to wipe out the flies quickly and completely, then change the substrate.  You want to take the chance that they haven't used it as a breeding ground then don't change it.  But the issue may linger, and delay your purchase of your new baby.  -shrug- Your decision.

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## CoolioTiffany

This same thing happened to me just a few weeks ago. These bugs are attracted to the moisture in the enclosure, so you may find some every now and then. They cannot harm your snake either. If you can, catch or kill them with your hands and I think that pretty much gets rid of the problem, since that is what I did.

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## I<3Dreamsicles

> Rinsing it won't get rid of the eggs.  They are attached to the bark with organic glue that the female flies secrete.  Water alone won't touch it.  And as I said (if you read my post) it shouldn't be boiled cause that will cause more harm than good.
> 
> Look.  If you want to wipe out the flies quickly and completely, then change the substrate.  You want to take the chance that they haven't used it as a breeding ground then don't change it.  But the issue may linger, and delay your purchase of your new baby.  -shrug- Your decision.



... Theyre not flies...
2nd, As I said (if you read my post) I said "_wash with water_" not boil. 

She said theyre smaller then gnats. = not flies.
and even changing the substrate isn't guaranteeing that the bugs will be gone if they came from elsewhere.

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## CopperNightShade

I am tired of arguing with you, dreamsicles.  It is quite remarkable that people who are trying to give good advice are shot down so rudely. 

They are drain flies.  I have quite a bit of experience trying to get rid of them.  They can linger for months if you aren't aggressive in treating them.  Water won't get rid of them.  Boiling them is pointless and dangerous. These things I have said earlier.  

I have offered my advice, and I would thank you to be polite if you wish to give a contradicting perspective..

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## I<3Dreamsicles

> I am tired of arguing with you, dreamsicles.  It is quite remarkable that people who are trying to give good advice are shot down so rudely. 
> 
> They are drain flies.  I have quite a bit of experience trying to get rid of them.  They can linger for months if you aren't aggressive in treating them.  Water won't get rid of them.  Boiling them is pointless and dangerous. These things I have said earlier.  
> 
> I have offered my advice, and I would thank you to be polite if you wish to give a contradicting perspective..


Yeah, i deffinatley shot you down oh so rudley. 

I really dont see how you can tell if theyre drain flys if you havent even seen a pic, and also i would like to help this person from wasting the $25 they spent for the substrate by tossing it when they dont even have to.

I really dont appreciate you calling ME rude when you are here telling me to be polite to you, after you have been rude anyway. "_if you even read my post_" then calling me rude.  :Wag of the finger:

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## Elise.m

Ok, time out from the arguing!

From what tiffany said, that leads me to believe that they're not harmful. If they're not harmful, then I would perfer to not chuck the entire bag. I don't have a job, so I'd like to not spend another $25.

Is there any long term effect by these guys? Are they just something that stays and flies around to get killed? 

ps: I've put out the vinegar and soap water, thanks.

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## CopperNightShade

No real long term affect for the snake, nope!  Luckily, they pose no threat as far as that is concerned.  If you were breeding, I would worry-they can destroy eggs.  

Other than that, the only worry is them spreading to the kitchen and getting into any food they can.  It doesn't really matter if they are fruit flies, drain flies or sphaerocerid flies... they will all get into food.  :Smile:

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## Elise.m

Well luckily I don't keep much food in the house! lol. So if they're "drain flies" can I do something to my drains that will kill them? I've recently poured bleach down my drain, but that was about a month ago... Should I do it again?

Edit: And no I'm not breeding. We're in a small little apartment, I'd want an actual house to do that. And a TON more knowledge!

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## CopperNightShade

Yes, if they are drain flies you can do something about them.  Unfortunately, bleach is not it.  You will need to find something that breaks down organic matter, like drain cleaner.  Follow the directions on the back of the bottle, nothing special.  Now, that will only work if they are drain flies.   :Smile:   Also, make sure they aren't coming from the laundry room.

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## Elise.m

Ha! No Laundry room here!! Rolls out one room... I'll go pick up some drain cleaner tomorrow then. Do they come from any drain in particular? Kitchen cuz of the food? Bathroom sink? Shower drain? Actually I wouldn't be surprised if we got them from outside... I bought the bag opened. He said it ripped when they were unloading it into the store or something... Last time I do that.

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## CopperNightShade

-laughs-  It is crazy when you are trying to figure out where these little pests come from, a million possibilities turn up!   :Smile:   It being outside could be the cause, but there is no real way of being sure.

And they can come from any drain, really.  Any drain can collect organic material enough to host them.  The kitchen is more likely, but I would just hit all the drains in the apartment to be sure.

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## Elise.m

Hm... Well, I guess I'll just house them for the time being. Unless they start to become a problem. Thanks for all the info and advise!

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## CopperNightShade

Sure thing.  Good luck!

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## dr del

Hi,

Would freezing the unused substrate kill any eggs in it?


dr del

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## Elise.m

Oooh that's a good idea!

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## I<3Dreamsicles

> Hi,
> 
> Would freezing the unused substrate kill any eggs in it?
> 
> 
> dr del


That is a good idea but i guess i forgot about it when i cleaned mine because theres no room in our freezer-S.... lol

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## CopperNightShade

> Hi,
> 
> Would freezing the unused substrate kill any eggs in it?
> 
> 
> dr del


That is a good idea.  I am not sure if it would or not, but it is certainly worth a shot!  I know severe temperature changes either way will kill any eggs, I just don't know if a freezer will get cold enough.

I was lucky when I had my infestation of drain flies - I was treating a mammal's bedding so I could use boric acid without any concern, and the problem was solved.

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## DM1975

I just found some of these guys in one of my cages today. I house all of my snakes in my basement, which includes a bathroom and a wash room. Looks like I will be hunting these little guys down. I guess they won't harm the snakes, but would you want these things buzzing around you all day long?

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## Elise.m

Well, they're not that much of a problem. They're here and there. Never consistent. I googled some pictures of drain flies and they're def not that... They're about the size of two grains of salt. Super tiny. Not that big of a problem, I'm not worried about it.

btw: the vinegar with soap didn't work either, so that leads me to believe they're not drain flies.

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## CopperNightShade

Try adjusting the vinegar/soap ratio?  That trick is supposed to work for lots of different kinds of bugs. :/

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## Elise.m

yeah i tried it. the thing is, the bugs only pop up every... 1-2 days, if that. so there wasn't much of an opportunity for them to smell the vinegar, I didn't see a bug for the rest of the night.  it's really weird

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