# Other Pythons > General Pythons >  ball python with green tree python?

## temple tapper

I have a ball python, and was wondering if there was a problem introducing a gtp to the cage. the cage is 90 some square feet and 6 feet tall. the gtp is only 20 inches long. he has been in there for 2 weeks. both eat fine. both climb all over the cage. I just want to know if I should worry.

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## H H Honey

I think they have very diffrent requirements. I would say no.

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## dembonez

no the gtp would prob hurt the bp not to mention the temp differences

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## andwhy6

it should be fine. they wouldnt try and attack each other or anything with an enclosure that large. but you could split the cage with netting if you wanted to be 100% sure. i would just net off a corner for the gtp. make sure you keep the humidity nice and high.

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## xdeus

Definitely not.  GTPs require a much more humid environment which would probably lead to scale rot for your Ball Python.  Balls live in a more arid climate and will undoubtedly have problems.

Also, GTPs tend to be very active at night while in feeding mode.  Mine will strike as soon as I enter the room and will strike at any movement when I go to feed.  Imagine your Ball Python moving around when your GTP is in feeding mode.

Keep them separate.

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## steveboos

> Definitely not.  GTPs require a much more humid environment which would probably lead to scale rot for your Ball Python.  Balls live in a more arid climate and will undoubtedly have problems.
> 
> Also, GTPs tend to be very active at night while in feeding mode.  Mine will strike as soon as I enter the room and will strike at the any movement when I go to feed.  Imagine your Ball Python moving around when your GTP is in feeding mode.
> 
> Keep them separate.


Completely agree, keep those species separate and give them both their own ideal environments. A 6 foot cage in any sense for a ball python is too large.

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## crusher

WHY THE HELL DO YOU HAVE A 90 SQUARE FOOT CAGE WITH A BALL PYTHON IN IT... 

you should learn how to better house your animals... there is plenty of stickys on how to properly care for a ball python and for the record... never ever put 2 snakes together unless they are copulating.

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_BeastMaster_ (02-22-2010),_Chocolate Muffin's_ (02-22-2010),_CoolioTiffany_ (02-22-2010),_FIEND_FO_LYFE_ (02-22-2010),_I<3Dreamsicles_ (02-24-2010),NotaMallard (03-13-2010)

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## musicalKeyes

I understand wanting to put two species together, I reeeeally do, but it's just not a good idea in this case, the species are too different. Can you put up a picture of their cage? I'd say that that size is way way way too big for a BP, but who knows, maybe you have it set up really well? I understand wanting to give them a big beautiful cage. Maybe put the GTP in the cage and move the ball to a smaller one?

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## WaRocker

> I have a ball python, and was wondering if there was a problem introducing a gtp to the cage. the cage is 90 some square feet and 6 feet tall. the gtp is only 20 inches long. he has been in there for 2 weeks. both eat fine. both climb all over the cage. I just want to know if I should worry.


Ummmm Wow, Do you have pics of these cages? These should never ever be in the same cage. A GTP is an arboreal snake and it's only purpose in life is to eat and perch. Not to mention like stated above the GTP needs tons more humidity than the Ball python. These snakes need total diffrent care and climate and enviroment. 

I would never house any two snakes in one cage unless they are copulating. 

Look at it this way.. If one regurges in the middle of the night or you find something wrong with the fecal which one is it?? 
I don't care if it's two ball pythons, they don't "live with each other" forever.
That just has bad all over it.. 

the cages sound a bit extreme?? As far as size etc.. You should read quite a few books on both and do lots of research before you buy...

Ok now with this being said I don't want to come off as a big ol' butt head its just we are all passionate for our reptiles here. I do commend you on asking the question before you just do it. 

Pics would be nice of the cages if you can.. so we might be able to help suggest some better? housing? or refine what you have.. 
Peace and good luck

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_FIEND_FO_LYFE_ (02-22-2010),_Warocker's Wife_ (02-22-2010)

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## West Coast Jungle

NO! Not a good idea.

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## Warocker's Wife

As far as your GTP to put it in such a large cage it WILL stress it out. 
not counting there is NO way u are keeping the humidity levels up where they need to be in that large of a cage and if u were, how sad is that for the ball python. U got an African animal in with a Australian animal they are 2 different levels all together with heat and humidity ect.
Substrates for my balls are aspen and the substrate for my GTP is cypress mulch.

Not only should u not cage the animals together.
But I feel from the mild description of the cage it might be improper for both animals.

Bigger is not always better. Just because the animal eats doesnt mean it has proper care.

Ideal caging for Gtp's is a tub while its a neo until its approx. a year old, once the animal is a year old u can move it to a display cage. The more plants and greenery in the cage can help make the animal feel secure.

I am not trying to seem harsh I personally just want whats best for the animals.

If u post pictures of the housing this may help. 

Wishing u well

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_CoolioTiffany_ (03-09-2010)

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## DrLew

I love it - everyone is an expert- and no one has offered up anything substantiated by any evidence - all personal accounts.
Lord knows 2 different snakes never live in the wild together!
LOL :ROFL:

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## FIEND_FO_LYFE

> I love it - everyone is an expert- and no one has offered up anything substantiated by any evidence - all personal accounts.
> Lord knows 2 different snakes never live in the wild together!
> LOL


You are kidding me right?
Is this a joke?

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tegu (12-06-2016),_Warocker's Wife_ (02-22-2010)

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## blackcrystal22

> I love it - everyone is an expert- and no one has offered up anything substantiated by any evidence - all personal accounts.
> Lord knows 2 different snakes never live in the wild together!
> LOL


When you understand what you are talking about, then you can attack people's information. Not until then.
Most of the breeders on this website own hundreds-thousands of snakes, and have more information due to personal experience then you could ever write in a book. You really think they send doctors out of med-school into surgery with no first hand surgical experience? NO.
(If you ever planned on selling the hatchlings of your animals, I'll make sure to steer clear of you with that idiotic comment. Especially if you are permanently housing any of your animals together.)

Also, 2 different snakes do not generally cohabit in the wild very well. Species generally stick to their own species, and even then Ball Pythons are very solitary animals. Because they both take up different temperature and humidity requirements (hey, substantial evidence right there!) one would suffer while another thrives. Also, GTPs are very aggressive, even to their own species on occasion so it is not a good idea to house them with ANY other snake, even their own species.

Also, GTPs and Ball Pythons would never cohabit in the wild, they are from different ecosystems in different parts of the world. 

A cage that large is also pretty harsh on both species. I would imagine that one will either stop eating, or get an RI due to stress because of such a large cage. Not to mention, finding them, keeping humidity requirements all throughout the cage, and a perfect temperature gradient are all nearly impossible.

P.S. If the ball python is climbing all over it's cage, it is stressed, not happy.

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_Beardedragon_ (02-23-2010),_CoolioTiffany_ (03-09-2010)

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## dembonez

> You are kidding me right?
> Is this a joke?


i hope so  :Surprised:

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_Warocker's Wife_ (02-22-2010)

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## FIEND_FO_LYFE

> i hope so


Me too... :Sigh2:

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## xdeus

> I love it - everyone is an expert- and no one has offered up anything substantiated by any evidence - all personal accounts.
> Lord knows 2 different snakes never live in the wild together!
> LOL


You're absolutely correct.  I have never housed a BP and GTP together, although I do have both species and kept them for years.  I've also never stuck a knife in an electric outlet, but I'm probably going to continue advising people not to do that if asked.

The snakes may get along swimmingly, but I'm not about to perform experiments to determine if my BP will get repeated bites from my chondro or get scale rot from the extreme humidity.

You're also right about many different snakes living together in nature, although usually they have to be on the same continent and probably experience the same climate.  The region that Ball Pythons originate receive about 14 inches of rain a year whereas the chondro's home (Papua New Guinea) receives about 50 inches.   Maybe I'm naive, but I think it would be a little difficult to replicate those different conditions in a relatively small cage.

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## dembonez

> You're absolutely correct.  I have never housed a BP and GTP together, although I do have both species and kept them for years.  I've also never stuck a knife in an electric outlet, but I'm probably going to continue advising people not to do that if asked.
> 
> The snakes may get along swimmingly, but I'm not about to perform experiments to determine if my BP will get repeated bites from my chondro or get scale rot from the extreme humidity.
> 
> You're also right about many different snakes living together in nature, although usually they have to be on the same continent and probably experience the same climate.  The region that Ball Pythons originate receive about 14 inches of rain a year whereas the chondro's home (Papua New Guinea) receives about 50 inches.   Maybe I'm naive, but I think it would be a little difficult to replicate those different conditions in a relatively small cage.


LOLOL OMG LMAOOAOO LOLOLOLO HAHAHAH OMG LOLOLOL HAHAHAH you sir win! :Salute:  :Salute:  :Good Job:  :Good Job:  :Dancin' Banana:  :Dancin' Banana:

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## DrLew

> Y  The region that Ball Pythons originate receive about 14 inches of rain a year whereas the chondro's home (Papua New Guinea) receives about 50 inches.


Similar to the plastic cages and tubs we keep them in........

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## waltah!

> Similar to the plastic cages and tubs we keep them in........


What do plastic cages and tubs have to do with the different requirements of these animals? I understand that the way we keep them is not as they live in the wild, but we try to meet their individual needs. Why not just keep saltwater fish and freshwater fish together with some turtles and the Lochness Monster? They all live in water.

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_CoolioTiffany_ (02-22-2010),_Quiet Tempest_ (02-26-2010)

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## Mike Schultz

you will be the first to produce green ball pythons  :Wink:

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_CoolioTiffany_ (03-09-2010),temple tapper (02-22-2010)

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## blackcrystal22

> Similar to the plastic cages and tubs we keep them in........


Exactly, actually. Ball pythons live in old termite burrows, and therefore tubs suit their environments with extreme similarities! 
Same with GTPs, just put a few branches in and you're good to go.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

If you're so anti-cage/tubs then why do you have so many animals that you keep in cages and tubs yourself? Because that's what works, and it's shown a high success rate with breeding and having healthy animals. They like the smaller spaces, and they do somewhat replicate their home environments.

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_CoolioTiffany_ (03-09-2010),temple tapper (02-22-2010)

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## CoolioTiffany

OP, please do not feel anyone is bashing you on this topic.  We would just like you to know that from our experiences and articles we have read on the internet or anywhere else that housing two separate species of snakes that are not native to the same area is not such a great idea.

There are many things that can happen with housing the two species and we would just like both of the snakes to be safe and to not be injured with serious bites or killed by an illness or disease.  We, as herpteculturists, would like to just inform you of the possibilites that can most likely happen.

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retic720 (02-22-2010)

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## retic720

not to bash the OP...but this is what we are trying to avoid when housing 2 snakes together:

http://www.herpcenter.com/snakes-gen...-together.html

(look a few posts down to see a ball python that ate another ball python, a boa who ate a ball python and a corn (??) who ate another corn).

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_CoolioTiffany_ (03-09-2010),_marct_ (02-23-2010),_steveboos_ (02-23-2010),temple tapper (02-23-2010)

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## Rockstar Reptiles

> Definitely not.  GTPs require a much more humid environment which would probably lead to scale rot for your Ball Python.  Balls live in a more arid climate and will undoubtedly have problems.
> 
> Also, GTPs tend to be very active at night while in feeding mode.  Mine will strike as soon as I enter the room and will strike at any movement when I go to feed.  Imagine your Ball Python moving around when your GTP is in feeding mode.
> 
> Keep them separate.


A side note on these lines.  A good friend of mine had a Jayapura that attacked ITSELF and squoze itself to death a few months ago!  Wouldn't believed it if I hadn't seen it!  I am having it preserved in plastic, will have to post pics when I get it back.

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temple tapper (02-23-2010)

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## mr. s

Hahaha, no. No you should not. Whoever it was that said it was fine, don't give advice if you don't know what you are talking about.
They have SUPER different needs. I am sad to hear that you did not know the needs of these snakes before getting them. I think you should get down to the books and start learning about what you own.

Thank-you, thank-you, thank-you for asking here before you let things get out of hand.

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temple tapper (02-23-2010)

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## king216

No no no no no

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temple tapper (02-23-2010)

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## retic720

in fairness...the intention of the OP is quite noble. 

If I read the figures right, he must be making this some kind of display showcase for his villa/office; let's face it, a 90 sq. ft snake cage? 6 ft high?

we already established that balls and greens don't exactly mix well; however, if my hunch is right, here's my suggestion for his "display showcase" project:

1) put dividers so that it would be possible to highlight multiple snakes and at the same time address their needs individually

2) are you going all out natural here? maybe some of the experienced users here can give advice on what substrate to use. it has to be somewhat available all throughout (they do poop and pass urates afterall...not so pleasing to the eyes and nose...hehehe)

3) revisit the plan for the project; ensure that it can support heaters/lamps/humidifiers/whatever for individual snakes WITHOUT being an electrical hazard for the pet. 

Right now, I can deduce that you currently have a ball and a green. Dividing 90 sq ft. bet. the two may not be so efficient, so here's my suggestions for the two:

1) for the ball; you've prolly read that they're arid pythons; don't use sand. Wood chips should be alright (I usually use newspaper); I believe you're supposed to avoid pine and cedar (the fragrant smelling ones). 

2) for the green; I've never kept greens, but from what I've seen from friends/other keepers, this is where they can go "jungle" on their decorations.

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temple tapper (02-23-2010)

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## BP-180

So want to see a pic of this set up its not even funny
u gotta take one and us and if your joking make a cage tat big and show me tanks lol

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## BiggBaddWolf

> you will be the first to produce green ball pythons


I wanna be one of the first waiting in line to get one of those... :Razz:

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## singingtothewheat

Dr.Lew and andywhy6  (sorry if I got the names wrong)

NO!  Emphatically!

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## temple tapper

Thanks. I'm trying to figure out how to get pics off camera to the site.  Also I was told that for the humidity differences I should bring up a high humidity for a day and then let it fall for a couple days and then repeat. Either way it sounds like i will seperate them. The ball python was really active climbing at night and etc. he has two hides and bark chip substrate. there is one 150 watt spot basking light away from the tree perches and a ceramic bulb for heat. also i have a low heat mat under 1 hide. the three trees all have vines connecting them, and on one side of the cage i have three perches to climb the wall at seperate levels.

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## blackcrystal22

> Thanks. I'm trying to figure out how to get pics off camera to the site.  Also I was told that for the humidity differences I should bring up a high humidity for a day and then let it fall for a couple days and then repeat. Either way it sounds like i will seperate them. The ball python was really active climbing at night and etc. he has two hides and bark chip substrate. there is one 150 watt spot basking light away from the tree perches and a ceramic bulb for heat. also i have a low heat mat under 1 hide. the three trees all have vines connecting them, and on one side of the cage i have three perches to climb the wall at seperate levels.


Ball pythons will only end up hurting themselves on perches. They are ground pythons and climbing means that he is stressed. Lamps usually just suck humidity and are no good. They don't use basking spots, they hide and hide and hide when they are comfortable. 
I think just keeping the ball python at 60% humidity and the GTP at the proper humidity level (not sure what it is, 80-90%?) constantly is best.

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temple tapper (02-24-2010)

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## chapskis1

Seems like it might be a good enclosure for a burmese or a retic?

I would love to see pics!

I'm pretty sure that is bigger than my college dorm room!!

Later,

George

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temple tapper (02-24-2010)

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## Beardedragon

> Thanks. I'm trying to figure out how to get pics off camera to the site.  *Also I was told that for the humidity differences I should bring up a high humidity for a day and then let it fall for a couple days and then repeat*. Either way it sounds like i will seperate them. The ball python was really active climbing at night and etc. he has two hides and bark chip substrate. there is one 150 watt spot basking light away from the tree perches and a ceramic bulb for heat. also i have a low heat mat under 1 hide. the three trees all have vines connecting them, and on one side of the cage i have three perches to climb the wall at seperate levels.


Who told you this? 

Honestly, I really do not believe that you have the cage or the snakes, or at least until I see pictures. If you have the money to build all of that, spend the money on two nice 40 gallon tanks with stands, and decorate those for the snakes needs. Unless your roomcage is compleatly decorated and looks like a jungle, I bet it doesnt look that nice and is Empty looking.

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_marct_ (02-23-2010)

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## CoolioTiffany

The enclosure seems too warm, especially if the bulb is 150w :Surprised: 

My 100w bulb can get up to 141F or higher..

Ball pythons like smaller areas and don't like to be out in the open.  This is why most of us here on BP.net use tubs or rack systems.  a 41qt tub is suggested for an adult female Ball python, and a 32qt is suggested for an adult male Ball python.  So, as you see, they don't need nearly as much space as you are providing yours.  My Ball pythons all fit comfortably in their tubs, and right now for my babies I'm using 12qt tubs.  

When Ball pythons feel secure, they won't roam their enclosures looking for security.  My smaller Balls roam at night or during the day when they are hungry on feeding day, but my other two larger ones stay in their hides 90% of the time.  My Bloods even hide 90% of the time, and I don't even see them come out at night (probably roam when I'm sleeping). 

I would suggest purchasing a tub that can fit a water dish large enough for the Ball to fit into and two identical hides on the warm and cool side.  If you can get a tub like that, your Ball will most likely be happy.  And make sure you buy a UTH with a thermostat for the warm end (cover 1/3 of the bottom of the tub with the UTH and attack the thermostat probe to the UTH with aluminum/foil tape).  Make sure you also have a digital thermometer to measure the heat the UTH is producing.

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## marct

The day I decided to purchase my first bp, I researched.  Every result reported that ball pythons are to be kept alone.  Even the simple BP.net sticky has this basic info.  I'm not going to bash you, because I tend to be that "forum thug" when I read ubsurd threads like this one.  So, Ill just simply say no you can't.  

Something tells me that this thread is a bluff anyway.  I agree with the previous post:  You probably don't even have this enclosure.

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_Chocolate Muffin's_ (02-23-2010)

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## chapskis1

I was going to put a gtp in my bp enclosure, but being that mine is only 8x8 (for a total of 64 square ft.) I didn't figure that was big enough for two snakes.  So I guess I'll just have to settle for only having one snake for now, until I can make more room.   :Sad: 


 :Very Happy:  :Very Happy:  :Very Happy:  :Very Happy:  :Very Happy:  :Very Happy:  :Very Happy:  :Very Happy:  :Very Happy:  :Very Happy:  :Very Happy:  :Very Happy:  :Very Happy:  :Very Happy:  :Very Happy: 

Seriously, I'll put money down 10:1 that this enclosure doesn't exist!

(Mission accomplished though by getting everyone's interest and getting tons of replies)

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## marct

> I was going to put a gtp in my bp enclosure, but being that mine is only 8x8 (for a total of 64 square ft.) I didn't figure that was big enough for two snakes.  So I guess I'll just have to settle for only having one snake for now, until I can make more room.


You have a bp in an 8x8 enclosure?

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## chapskis1

> You have a bp in an 8x8 enclosure?


Hey...that's smaller than the op's (his must be about 10x9 to get 90 square feet).   

No, I was being totally sacrastic -- I thought all of the green smileys would give it away.

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## marct

> Hey...that's smaller than the op's (his must be about 10x9 to get 90 square feet).   
> 
> No, I was being totally sacrastic -- I thought all of the green smileys would give it away.


lol... sorry... I was about to jump your case too...

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## Chocolate Muffin's

> lol... sorry... I was about to jump your case too...


Simmer down there mister! :Wink:  :Very Happy:  Long time no hear ,hope all has been well :Smile: 
This is probably a joke, don't you think?

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## blackcrystal22

> Simmer down there mister! Long time no hear ,hope all has been well
> This is probably a joke, don't you think?


If it's not, then I don't know why it reeks of fish in here!

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_Chocolate Muffin's_ (02-24-2010)

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## Warocker's Wife

I think this thread was started just to get everyones goat..... :Weirdface:

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_Beardedragon_ (02-24-2010)

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## BiggBaddWolf

> i think this thread was started just to get everyones goat.....


+1

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## retic720

if he's indeed a troll....I trust the mods would handle him.

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## temple tapper

i guess i should say he hides alot. he does come out at night and cruises, but not every night. maybe twice a week. sometimes i woon't see him at night for a couple weeks. but he does climb and he is very good at it. he has never fallen that i have seen. he is about two to three times the size of the pic i threw up there.

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## DrLew

> i guess i should say he hides alot. he does come out at night and cruises, but not every night. maybe twice a week. sometimes i woon't see him at night for a couple weeks. but he does climb and he is very good at it. he has never fallen that i have seen. he is about two to three times the size of the pic i threw up there.


which is why I said what I said way back when - for God's sake people these are reptiles we're talking about - they've adapted for hundreds of thousands of years..........................I doubt sticking them in a plastic tub is blasphemy!
I so do love stirring the pot!   :Razz:

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## retic720

> i guess i should say he hides alot. he does come out at night and cruises, but not every night. maybe twice a week. sometimes i woon't see him at night for a couple weeks. but he does climb and he is very good at it. he has never fallen that i have seen. he is about two to three times the size of the pic i threw up there.


Could you post bigger pix of the enclosure in question? I saw the ones in your profile page and it LOOKS impressive...but a more "viewer" friendly version would greatly help us give our inputs.

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## Beardedragon

Thats an impressive cage, but I think that would be better for an igguana or some type of lizzard. I cant see how though you keep humidity up, and the temps right. Is the wood sealed? And also, im pretty sure that the floor space isnt 90sq feet.

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## temple tapper

i meant to say 90 cubic feet but couldn't figure out how to edit it

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## temple tapper

i have a humidifier piped in on timers, gets to 58% then falls off gradually. comes on 4 times at night and day

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## TimmyG

Heres the only way this cill work. You need to get someone who works with glass to cut you a piece that can be caulked horizontally dividing your large tank into a top and bottom. the job needs to be solid so the glass doesnt fall, shatter, and shred your BP. And Ideally woudl be plexi glass incase something falls on it. you would then beable to individually control the humidity in both sides and would be ensured they wouldnt fight. If you cant do this and do it well you cant keep them together

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temple tapper (02-26-2010),_Warocker's Wife_ (02-26-2010)

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## temple tapper

great idea

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## Warocker's Wife

> i have a humidifier piped in on timers, gets to 58% then falls off gradually. comes on 4 times at night and day


Your humidity needs to be higher for your GTP. Your GTP will eventually become dehydrated and have bad sheds, lets not forget stress.

GTP should be provided a thermal gradient between 82 and 88 degrees F my humidity levels are @ 70 to 100 percent and then I let them have a drying out period.
Chondros are very thin skinned and sheds will dry on them very easily if the relative humidity is too low during the shedding period.  The goal should be a gradual drying out period at night and early morning, followed by an increase in humidity in the afternoon and early evening.


With ball pythons
They may suffer health problems if kept too wet, including skin infections. If their humidity levels are too high.
Bp temps are to be kept around 80 to 90. So it would be ok with temps I suppose but the amount of humidity u have going on to help the GTP would be too much for the ball. Also as I pointed out before there is just no way u are going to keep the humidity up in a cage of that size. Humidity is the balance of air flow and wet based in the air and with that large of a cage it would have more air flow and dry out much quicker.
Are u able to keep it wet on the GTP for over 3 hours?

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temple tapper (03-09-2010)

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## temple tapper

ya thanks. i have the snakes seperated. i can keep this tank/cage at 95% humidity all day and night if i have to. for now i use it for the bp. later when the gtp grows i will put him in there. the bp will back to the 40 gal tank.

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## DavidG

This is by far the best thread ever!  :Bowdown:  After reading the first two pages I just couldn't stop laughing. I will defiantly read each reply when I have more time.

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