# Colubrids > Pituophis >  Young Bull rubbing her nose constantly on glass

## bullsnakejax

My yearling Bullsnake has been rubbing her nose on the glass as hard as she can constantly for the past few weeks. Her nose is now pink, and I've tried to heal it with Neosporin, but she keeps rubbing even after that. I'm running out of patience and ideas to get her to stop and I'm becoming worried  Any tips or help would be fantastic, thanks!

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## EL-Ziggy

What are her temps like? How much and how often are you feeding her? My male was rubbing his nose quite a bit recently and he was refusing food so I'm thinking it was just hormones. Your girl seems a little young for that to be the case.

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## bullsnakejax

> What are her temps like? How much and how often are you feeding her? My male was rubbing his nose quite a bit recently and he was refusing food so I'm thinking it was just hormones. Your girl seems a little young for that to be the case.


Her cooler side is usually 70-75°F and her hot side is around 80-90°F. I'm feeding her once a week, I just fed her a few hours ago in high hopes that she would stop rubbing, but she's continued doing it off and on since then. 

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## EL-Ziggy

I don't let my bulls heat go over 86F. They seem to prefer cooler temps. Every 7 days is a good feeding schedule for a young bull. How much do you feed her weekly? Do you know how much your snake weighs?

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*Bogertophis* (11-01-2018),_distaff_ (11-01-2018)

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## Bogertophis

While I agree that "uncomfortable" cage temperatures (ie. too warm) might cause a snake to be restless & want out, you should also know that these kinds of snakes are very active & may just be stubborn about rubbing their noses to escape.  Remember that these snakes are active hunters, not passive ambush predators....travel is in their DNA.  Larger cages seem to help, as does deeper substrate they can burrow into, & sometimes even more complex "cage furniture" may help.  I have kept & raised bull snakes & gopher snakes in the past and I like them a lot.  What size cage is yours in?  I know how frustrating it is to have a snake rubbing their nose, and it's not harmless...it can lead to infections, besides being not so pretty to look at.

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_distaff_ (11-01-2018),Jasmijn (11-01-2018)

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## Jasmijn

I agree with whats said in the above response, your snake may just be doing that out of boredom or stress too. Make sure your snake has hiding places to go to to feel safe and if it is boredom you could get a bigger cage with more things for him to do and/or take your snake out more often to hold and hangout with  :Smile:  hope this helps and i hope the nose rubbing stops soon!

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_distaff_ (11-01-2018)

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## distaff

Is it just the season for restless Pitts?  My Sonoran Gopher female has been restless for the past week.  I pulled her out, overhauled the entire viv - full clean, and disinfect, new substrate, new climbing surfaces, and another hide.  Checked her heat (hot spot good at low/mid 80'sF), and stabilized the ambient to low 70'sF with an RHP.   Still won't settle down.  She is due for a feed tomorrow, but all this started right after her last meal.

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## distaff

...and while some Pittuophis _(spell?)_ enthusiasts are gathered on this thread:

Can anyone suggest a good care/natural history book on the genus?  I can't find anything other than what is apparently an older "description" - sounds like a series of scale counts for each species.

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## paulh

> ...and while some Pittuophis _(spell?)_ enthusiasts are gathered on this thread:
> 
> Can anyone suggest a good care/natural history book on the genus?  I can't find anything other than what is apparently an older "description" - sounds like a series of scale counts for each species.


I don't know of a good single book. 

The scale counts book sounds like Olive Griffith Stull's paper from back in the 1940s. It can be downloaded as a pdf file from the web. The link is too long for here, but using the Google seach engine and searching for "Bulletin United States National Museum Smithsonian Institution Stull Pituophis	" (minus the quote marks) should find it.

Useful books (may be available by interlibrary loan):
Comparative ecology of two Colubrid snakes, Masticophis t. taeniatus and Pituophis melanoleucus deserticola, in northern Utah /​ William S. Parker and William S. Brown. Out of print?

SNAKES OF THE UNITED STATES AND CANADA: Keeping Them Healthy in Captivity - Vol. 1: Eastern Area / John V. Rossi & Roxanne Rossi
SNAKES OF THE UNITED STATES AND CANADA: Keeping Them Healthy in Captivity - Vol. 2:  Western Area  / John V. Rossi & Roxanne Rossi
These books are rather expensive.

The Northern Pine Snake (Pituophis melanoleucus): Its Life History, Behavior and Conservation / Joanna Burger and Robert T. Zappalorti. Can be downloaded as a pdf file from the web. Do a Google search for "Joanna Burger Robert T. Zappalorti" (minus the quotes). I haven't read this myself (yet). But some of their research papers have taught me a few things.

Handbook of snakes / Wright and Wright. USA and Canada, 2 volumes, IMO one of the two best snake books printed in the 1950s. (The other was Klauber's The Rattlesnakes.) Out of print (AFAIK). 

Not recommended:
Pine snakes: a complete guide / W. P. Mara. I have a copy. IMO, this should be labeled a complete guide not. Somewhat useful if someone can guide the newbie past the mistakes.

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_distaff_ (11-02-2018)

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## distaff

Thank you!

Amazon has what looks like the OGS paper in book form, but I wasn't sure it would apply to hobbiests.
Considering the popularity of this genus, I find it odd that there is so little published.
I'll check into the Rossi and Rossi volumes, as well as the B & Z pine snake book.  Might be something in the used listings.

I appreciate the suggestions.

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## Bogertophis

> Is it just the season for restless Pitts?  My Sonoran Gopher female has been restless for the past week.  I pulled her out, overhauled the entire viv - full clean, and disinfect, new substrate, new climbing surfaces, and another hide.  Checked her heat (hot spot good at low/mid 80'sF), and stabilized the ambient to low 70'sF with an RHP.   Still won't settle down.  She is due for a feed tomorrow, but all this started right after her last meal.


Maybe she's thinking it's time to find a place to brumate?  The days are getting shorter (try adding light to her enclosure?) & temps. are falling...that's the tip-offs 
for snakes to think about brumating.  The other thing to keep in mind is that these are diurnal snakes, so we actually SEE their activity much more than we do for 
the nocturnal snakes we keep.  But mostly these active hunters too, not ambush predators.  Also, since this is a female, is she a breedable size & age?  she may also 
be craving more food to bulk up on (reproductive readiness)....and fall is the "last hurrah" for doing that.  You have to think about it from her (instinctive) 
perspective.

It's crazy that there aren't good books about these, they are so under-appreciated!  But of course, they're "native", not "exotic" (like BPs etc)???   :Confused:

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_distaff_ (11-03-2018)

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## distaff

As much as I enjoy my others, she is FAR AND AWAY my favorite snake.  She is both alert and easy going.  I also like her substantial size.  Maybe people aren't as interested, because there aren't as many flashy morphs (although the Applegate (?) version of albino is rather intense).  While I'll be sticking to just one for the foreseeable future, every time I see a Pine, bull, or gopher for sale, I want want to buy it.  Came close twice in the last several weeks.

Can't put my finger on it....there is just something about them.

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*Bogertophis* (11-03-2018)

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## Bogertophis

> As much as I enjoy my others, she is FAR AND AWAY my favorite snake.  She is both alert and easy going.  I also like her substantial size.  Maybe people aren't as interested, because there aren't as many flashy morphs (although the Applegate (?) version of albino is rather intense).  While I'll be sticking to just one for the foreseeable future, every time I see a Pine, bull, or gopher for sale, I want want to buy it.  Came close twice in the last several weeks.
> 
> Can't put my finger on it....there is just something about them.


They seem more curious & intelligent to me, that's also why I'm so into various rat snakes*.  I care much more about personality than I do fancy colors**, though 
appearance is always a bonus.  And while I've taken in & helped many rescues over the years (of all kinds) I get more enjoyment from snakes that have a more 
bold "survivor" persona.  *These make better use of vision to hunt by day, I think that accounts for some of the differences in personality;  I also notice these kinds 
of snakes "change gears" better than boids.  (ie. I can feed them one minute & handle them without bites the next...they have better recognition skills, IMO.)

**I've never owned an Applegate but was sure tempted many years ago when I met him & visited his home to pick up a bunch of hatchlings...but at that point my 
house was full & so was my time.  (-so many great snakes, so little time, sigh!)

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