# Site General > Pet Related Laws & Legislation >  How is Andrew Wyatt getting your info?

## 3skulls

Andrew Wyatt and USHA

Did he steal the mailing list from USARK? 
Did USARK sell him the information?
Are they just working together under 2 different names?

I'm not sure if any of you are members of USARK. If you are, check your email and see if USHA has sent you something. I know I have never signed up for anything with USHA, so they had to get my information from somewhere. 

I have not heard back from USARK as of yet. I also can't find any type of privacy statement on their site.

----------


## KatStoverReptiles

Got that email and instantly wondered the same thing. Something smells here...

----------

_3skulls_ (01-17-2013)

----------


## Skiploder

> Andrew Wyatt and USHA
> 
> Did he steal the mailing list from USARK? 
> Did USARK sell him the information?
> Are they just working together under 2 different names?
> 
> I'm not sure if any of you are members of USARK. If you are, check your email and see if USHA has sent you something. I know I have never signed up for anything with USHA, so they had to get my information from somewhere. 
> 
> I have not heard back from USARK as of yet. I also can't find any type of privacy statement on their site.


My prediction is that his spokesmouth, after asking Andrew, will issue a statement full of non-answers and semantics as appears to be her MO.

Reference her previous false claims to Kevin McCurley that Andrew never preemptively (in thought, allusion, or any other form) proposed BMPs in states other than NC - even though his testimony on HR2811 directly contradicts that.

Wait and see how this BS gets spun.

----------

_3skulls_ (01-17-2013)

----------


## 3skulls

I have also contacted the USHA, nothing in return. 

I'm not sure there will be any statement made as I'm not seeing much concern on the subject. 

Am I in the wrong for feeling angry over this?

----------


## Skiploder

> I have also contacted the USHA, nothing in return. 
> 
> I'm not sure there will be any statement made as I'm not seeing much concern on the subject. 
> 
> Am I in the wrong for feeling angry over this?



It's being discussed elsewhere, and most people think it's a pretty crappy way to do business.....................me included.

If USARK gave Wyatt permission to use their list - bad on them.

If Wyatt took their list and is spamming us off it - bad on him.

My money is on the latter scenario............

----------


## Badger711

Not in the least. I was wondering the same thing to be honest. Don't get me wrong, I support Andrew in what he does, so I'm not angry that USHA has my info, but I am wondering who else may have it also.

----------


## 3skulls

I signed up for USARKs newsletter a few months back and became a member after the spilt. 

I would like to know if anyone that signed up with USARK after the spilt received an email from USHA.

----------


## Stewart_Reptiles

I would not hold my breath on getting a straight answer from Herp Alliance they already seems to master avoiding questions by answering like politicians when ask about their mailing list  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 




> With respect to the Herp Alliance mailing list, it is not the same as USARK's. Naturally there is some overlap with USARK's list (and I imagine Repticon's list and others), but USARK's mailing list is, I believe, significantly larger than Herp Alliance's. This community is simply not that big. Herp Alliance does not share its mailing list with anyone. If any person wishes to be removed from the list, you can simply unsubscribe using the link in the email. Your address will be automatically removed.


I too have received an email from Herp Alliance and that specific email address was provided to USARK when I first became a member and was NEVER provided to Herp Alliance.

----------


## 3skulls

Deborah, where was that posted?

----------


## Stewart_Reptiles

> Deborah, where was that posted?


http://www.reptileradio.net/reptiler...228#post825228

----------

_3skulls_ (01-17-2013)

----------


## rabernet

> This is Walsh right?
> 
> http://www.sdflaw.com/?t=3&A=1093&format=xml


Yes

----------


## 3skulls

Thsnks

----------


## Skiploder

> While it is sad, I did read it. And will be retaining a copy of it just in case it's pulled so that as an unbiased party I can relay the information should it be removed from public scrutiny. 
> 
> The main thing I took away from it is that on all accounts of anything similar to a conviction the check rates them at 62 percent certainty. While that is more than a majority there is a large 38 percent that it could not be who they think it is. 
> 
> I also noticed a lot of mix in names, mainly most were listed as Ken Foose and then those that tie the Ken we know in are list as Ken Foose II and have his exotics business name attached. However, those are no where near the criminal or arrests section. 
> 
> In other words, an uneducated mouthpiece could make a quite deliberate mistake and end up smearing the name of an innocent party. 
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG Galaxy SIII using Tapatalk 2


I had one of those reports run on me a number of years ago when we built the Terminal 2 Extension at the Oakland International Airport - for security clearances.

Those reports contain a crap load of information.  They are amazingly invasive and after reading it, I felt like I had just gone through a colonoscopy.   The fact that because of Wyatt and his lawyer, Ken now has to have that report aired for everyone to see is sickening.....

All of the reptile groups are now working together - GRAIN, NAARC, USARK and PIJAC.  At this point, Ken has been called a child molester, had every intimate detail of his life laid bare for the community to see and has been accused of being a divisive force in this hobby - all because of this game of thuggery and intimidation.

Do the right thing folks.  Send Andrew and Erika packing.  He can go back to twirling signs by the side of the road for Little Ceasar's and she can go back to chasing ambulances.  Send them a message that we don't want tactics like this in our hobby.

----------

_Valentine Pirate_ (01-22-2013)

----------


## 3skulls

I wish I knew that I was talking to the new President of USARK at the expo the other day.  With our conversation being brief, He seems like a good down to earth guy. 

Like I said, I'll never send my money to anyone supporting USHA. Might as well just fly a HSUS banner on your site as well. I'll look at you as the same. 

I wonder if her lawfirm knows of her actions? I have been searching Westlaw to see if they have any policy about posting records online. Can't find anything.

----------


## Skiploder

Justin Meitz appears to be outed:

----------


## Skiploder

More detail

----------

_3skulls_ (01-22-2013),_C&H Exotic Morphs_ (01-22-2013)

----------


## 3skulls

Nevermind.

----------


## Kaorte

> More detail


Still super hard to read. 

It is all still he said she said. :/ 

This situation is such a "crap" storm.

----------


## C&H Exotic Morphs

> More detail


I guess he tried to carry his "magic act" over into real life and got burned by it! :Wag of the finger: 

And Skip I'm with you, Andrew and Erika and their Herp Alliance they will never see a penny from us!

----------


## C&H Exotic Morphs

> Still super hard to read. 
> 
> It is all still he said she said. :/ 
> 
> This situation is such a "crap" storm.


Yes sure technically it is just more he said/she said, but every last bit of what Ken has said about the people involved has been corroborated by witnesses.  And the more that happens the more validity it carries.  At least in the court of public opinion.

----------

Ken Foose (01-22-2013),_STjepkes_ (01-23-2013),wolfy-hound (01-23-2013)

----------


## rabernet

> Yes sure technically it is just more he said/she said, but every last bit of what Ken has said about the people involved has been corroborated by witnesses.  And the more that happens the more validity it carries.  At least in the court of public opinion.


And no one has corroborated Andrew, Erica and Justin side of things... 

Sent from my Samsung Note II using Tapatalk 2

----------

ballpythonluvr (01-23-2013),Ken Foose (01-22-2013),Stewart_Reptiles (01-22-2013),_Valentine Pirate_ (01-22-2013)

----------


## rabernet

Interesting post from Shawn Heflick tonight:

----------

Ken Foose (01-22-2013)

----------


## Kodieh

> I had one of those reports run on me a number of years ago when we built the Terminal 2 Extension at the Oakland International Airport - for security clearances.
> 
> Those reports contain a crap load of information.  They are amazingly invasive and after reading it, I felt like I had just gone through a colonoscopy.   The fact that because of Wyatt and his lawyer, Ken now has to have that report aired for everyone to see is sickening.....
> 
> All of the reptile groups are now working together - GRAIN, NAARC, USARK and PIJAC.  At this point, Ken has been called a child molester, had every intimate detail of his life laid bare for the community to see and has been accused of being a divisive force in this hobby - all because of this game of thuggery and intimidation.
> 
> Do the right thing folks.  Send Andrew and Erika packing.  He can go back to twirling signs by the side of the road for Little Ceasar's and she can go back to chasing ambulances.  Send them a message that we don't want tactics like this in our hobby.


Agreed, it was EVERYTHING. The only thing not listed in that report was which side of the bed Ken prefers to sleep on. While that's a pretty bad joke, it just about sums it up. There was no stone left unturned. But, it was a lot of information which I can see being overwhelming for some people. Erika, though, is a college trained BAR certified LAWYER. She should have done more research, and stuff like this--these "mistakes"--ruin lives. I pledge here and now, I will not donate nor endorse USHA. They're just neck in neck with HSUS minus the funding.

----------

_3skulls_ (01-22-2013),Ken Foose (01-22-2013),_Valentine Pirate_ (01-22-2013)

----------


## C&H Exotic Morphs

> And no one has corroborated Andrew, Erica and Justin side of things... 
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Note II using Tapatalk 2


Not sure if your post was a ? towards me or just and additional comment. :Confused: 

I'm sure I haven't seen and read everything posted everywhere, but I haven't seen it between following three forums and some of the facebook stuff.

----------

_Kodieh_ (01-22-2013)

----------


## rabernet

> Not sure if your post was a ? towards me or just and additional comment.
> 
> I'm sure I haven't seen and read everything posted everywhere, but I haven't seen it between following three forums and some of the facebook stuff.


Not directed at you - just an observation I've made reading many forums and facebook.

----------

_C&H Exotic Morphs_ (01-22-2013),Ken Foose (01-22-2013)

----------


## Ken Foose

Boy, am I tired.  Did we win?  Thanks to everyone here, and I mean it.  Nite.

----------

_Shadera_ (01-23-2013)

----------


## wilomn

erica is either really stupid, or just plain stupid. No lawyer would make that mistake. Or no lawyer who didn't want to make that mistake would make it. I am sure, my gut talking, that she did know, that wyatt knew and that they were hoping something like this would happen.

Scumbag City's mayor and chief officer of stupidity have been completely busted. 

I haven't read the report on Ken, but I've known the man for years, by the net and in person, and I NEVER got the vibe from him that I did from wyatt the few times I've seen him or read his posts. 

You really suck, you two who have caused all this crap. Say, erica, has wyatt kicked you to the curb yet or are you two still knocking it out?

----------

Ken Foose (01-23-2013)

----------


## wwmjkd

> Boy, am I tired.  Did we win?  Thanks to everyone here, and I mean it.  Nite.


Mr. Foose,

you've gone well out of your way to satiate dozens of people on multiple sites all clamoring for different things, and to whom you owe no responsibility. meanwhile the duplicity of the original muckrakers continues. and you've inexplicably done it with a smile on your face. it's a vile shame that your name was dragged through the mud in the way it was, and it's garbage that any voyeur with a forum subscription and prurient interest now has access to your financial past and whatever else is contained in the 'report' that was posted. add me to the list of those who will not be reading it. I can only hope that the sacrifice was worth it to demonstrate the caliber of character of some of these groups that purport to represent us. hopefully it has facilitated a little more collaboration among organizations than existed previously as well. I typically avoid drawing lines in the sand, but this case was a pretty easy exception. people in this industry do deserve to know the type of person claiming to advocate for their collective best interest, and hopefully the choice of which side to support is absolutely clear now. (or at least the choice of which side not to support).

I also have one final word of advice for whatever it's worth. if you continue to pursue a lawsuit against erika, wyatt, or anyone else for that matter, please keep your forum posts to reptile-related topics unless specifically told by your lawyer to address a particular point. I'm not a civil litigator, but I am an attorney. as much as your words have helped elucidate details surrounding an ugly experience, and even if every word you've ever written is irrefutable, it will never help your potential case to keep addressing the issue in public. 

all the best moving forward.

----------

_Aes_Sidhe_ (01-23-2013),Ken Foose (01-23-2013),_MrLang_ (01-23-2013),Skiploder (01-23-2013),Stewart_Reptiles (01-23-2013),_Valentine Pirate_ (01-23-2013),wilomn (01-23-2013)

----------


## Skiploder

> Mr. Foose,
> 
> you've gone well out of your way to satiate dozens of people on multiple sites all clamoring for different things, and to whom you owe no responsibility. meanwhile the duplicity of the original muckrakers continues. and you've inexplicably done it with a smile on your face. it's a vile shame that your name was dragged through the mud in the way it was, and it's garbage that any voyeur with a forum subscription and prurient interest now has access to your financial past and whatever else is contained in the 'report' that was posted. add me to the list of those who will not be reading it. I can only hope that the sacrifice was worth it to demonstrate the caliber of character of some of these groups that purport to represent us. hopefully it has facilitated a little more collaboration among organizations than existed previously as well. I typically avoid drawing lines in the sand, but this case was a pretty easy exception. people in this industry do deserve to know the type of person claiming to advocate for their collective best interest, and hopefully the choice of which side to support is absolutely clear now. (or at least the choice of which side not to support).
> 
> I also have one final word of advice for whatever it's worth. if you continue to pursue a lawsuit against erika, wyatt, or anyone else for that matter, please keep your forum posts to reptile-related topics unless specifically told by your lawyer to address a particular point. I'm not a civil litigator, but I am an attorney. as much as your words have helped elucidate details surrounding an ugly experience, and even if every word you've ever written is irrefutable, it will never help your potential case to keep addressing the issue in public. 
> 
> all the best moving forward.


Well said Parker!

----------


## MrLang

The lack of professionalism is astounding in the BLBC thread. How is this an issue for public internet discussion? This woman Erika that is posting is a lawyer? She deserves to be stripped of her license and fired from her job, in my humble opinion. What an embarrassment for that law firm.


I'm not touching this with a 10 foot pole but if she's associated with USHA then I've seen enough to make sure I never support that organization.

----------

_3skulls_ (01-23-2013),h00blah (01-23-2013),_Valentine Pirate_ (01-23-2013)

----------


## 3skulls

Seeing that people are still in support for them or are still waiting for the "dust to settle" is making me lose hope. 

I come here because I enjoy my animals, I enjoy sharing photos, information and ideas. Over the past week, I find myself coming here and getting angry. They make me sick. 

There is enough out their for everyone to make up their mind about them. I had my mind made up as soon as I got their email. 

If their supporters are still behind them after all of this, what will change at this point?

----------

_Valentine Pirate_ (01-23-2013)

----------


## Kodieh

I don't know if anyone has been following the BLBC discussion but from what I can see they refuse to support USHA. I didn't like Wyatt before for professional reasons and this only whole ordeal the propaganda (in essence) he threw around like candy is just the nail in the coffin. 

For anyone that liked Justins video, they've all but nailed him to the wall as a liar in the same league as Wyatt. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG Galaxy SIII using Tapatalk 2

----------

_3skulls_ (01-23-2013),_STjepkes_ (01-23-2013)

----------


## Skiploder

I think the BLBC and their moderating staff did a good job of letting everyone tell their sides.  It's human nature to pick a side and it's human nature to express strong opinions while a debate is going on - there is nothing wrong with that.  In the end, many of those who were giving Wyatt the benefit of the doubt not only were forthright in saying so from the get go, but were gracious to Ken at the end of it all.  In my book, that shows class.

In the end, I think that most people saw what was going on a called it the way they saw it.  Since Erika was not going on any other forums, the BLBC served an invaluable service in providing a venue for all of this to go down - and it was necessary for it to go down this way.  They have also gotten Brant and Canning to start answering some questions that should be of concern to anyone who is on the fence with PIJAC.........and this is an extremely necessary step in order for the community to find some common ground.

FWIW, I'm not a member there and was not going to join just to take part in this discussion - I feel that would have been crass on my part.  But I think the way that Larry and his staff handled everything was above approach.

----------

_C&H Exotic Morphs_ (01-23-2013),rabernet (01-23-2013),_RobNJ_ (01-23-2013),_Shadera_ (01-23-2013),_wwmjkd_ (01-23-2013)

----------


## Kodieh

Yes, it was good to have a lot of things addressed. Like I said, while Ken's problem is unfortunateI feel it was..._necessary_ to promote change, progress, and just get things done. 

Sorry, Ken, but I'll put you down in my book as the man who united herpetoculture. Good luck in Nevada, the community is behind you I'm very sure. 

I really was hoping for an introduction/inaugural address by the new USARK president on the current state of affairs and moving forward. May still yet, but I'm now excited for the future. I can't wait to get started on the good fight for 2013. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG Galaxy SIII using Tapatalk 2

----------

_3skulls_ (01-23-2013),Ken Foose (01-23-2013)

----------


## rabernet

> Yes, it was good to have a lot of things addressed. Like I said, while Ken's problem is unfortunateI feel it was..._necessary_ to promote change, progress, and just get things done. 
> 
> Sorry, Ken, but I'll put you down in my book as the man who united herpetoculture. Good luck in Nevada, the community is behind you I'm very sure. 
> 
> I really was hoping for an introduction/inaugural address by the new USARK president on the current state of affairs and moving forward. May still yet, but I'm now excited for the future. I can't wait to get started on the good fight for 2013. 
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG Galaxy SIII using Tapatalk 2


He was interviewed on Herp Nation. Haven't had a chance to listen yet. 

Sent from my Samsung Note II using Tapatalk 2

----------

_Kodieh_ (01-23-2013)

----------


## C&H Exotic Morphs

Here is the link to his interview.
http://www.herpnation.com/audio/herp...dent-of-usark/

I think it was a good first interview for everyone to get to find out alittle bit more about him.  Though it was just 1 brief interview I really felt his passion and the want for change and *UNITY* in the Herp Community!
And I couldn't agree more about us the Herp Community need to have the same passion, drive, commitment and willing to put in the same work with our efforts going forward!

----------

Ken Foose (01-23-2013),_Kodieh_ (01-23-2013),rabernet (01-23-2013)

----------


## Kodieh

Yeah, his credentials fit the bill to an extent but I see a bit of a discrepancy in that he is "about education first" yet worked for a company notorious for misinformation... Who knows, maybe having a legitament (Wyatt never really said what he kept, just that he DID keep) boa guy at the helm. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG Galaxy SIII using Tapatalk 2

----------


## Ken Foose

Phil is no longer associated with Zoo Med.  He now works for US.  We are his bosses now.  Let's give him a chance to prove that he is the man for the job.  If he is, then we can all come together and finally start hitting back against our mutual enemies.  If he's not the man for the job, we will replace him.  Pretty simple.  Let me say this from a personal view.  I've known Phil for almost 15 years.  He is a level headed man.  He's smart, and he has great people skills.  And he is one of us.  I've got nothing but respect for him.  Let's give him a chance to get up to speed and show us what he's got.  That's the fair thing to do.  I back him 100%.  I back USARK 100%.  And I back PJAC and NRAAC 100%.  My insticts tell me this is the right horse to bet on.  I wasn't wrong about the last one?  I'm not suggesting people follow my lead because it's me saying it.  Judge for yourself, give Phil the benifit of the doubt, and let's work together to protect and support our way of life.  I'm going on the radio in a couple hours to go head to head with a lawyer from HSUS.  I was at a county commission hearing yesterday to help protect a womans right to keep her Sugar Gliders and Hedgehogs.  The battle continues.  What are you guys doing to advance the fight?  If you haven't, join USARK and PJAC.  Make your voices heard.  Do some school talks.  Speak to people about snakes.  Teach them.  Stop the fear mongering that HSUS is promoting.  Look guys, we are not stupid people.  We are better then most in fact.  With our  knowlege and skills, we can work together and beat back these cults.  I'm doing everything I can to protect our industry, all the way to laying myself open for 100% inspection of my entire life history.  The least you guys can do is pay to join a couple of groups that need our money to help them fight for our rights.  It's the least you can do.  Help me please.  Help yourselves.

----------

_3skulls_ (01-24-2013),_Kodieh_ (01-24-2013),_Shadera_ (01-24-2013),Stewart_Reptiles (01-24-2013),Tye Hicks (01-24-2013),_Valentine Pirate_ (01-24-2013),wolfy-hound (01-24-2013)

----------


## 3skulls

I'm now a member of USARK, money is tight right now but I am giving. I hope as we move forward I'll be able to afford a little more. 

Mr. Goss was working the USARK table at our show this past Saturday. After getting the announcement in the email about him being the new President, I talked to a few of the local vendors I know. They all had great things to say about him. He seemed like a good guy to me.

----------

wolfy-hound (01-24-2013)

----------


## Kodieh

I started my monthly renewing subscription earlier before the details of Wyatts departure were announced. Can't wait for the shirts to come in, hopefully wear mine for Feb 10th show I'm going to. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG Galaxy SIII using Tapatalk 2

----------

_3skulls_ (01-24-2013)

----------


## 3skulls

I received an email from Ralph Davis repeating my shirt order. Have not seen them yet.

----------


## Kodieh

> I received an email from Ralph Davis repeating my shirt order. Have not seen them yet.


Mine are on back order currently he said. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG Galaxy SIII using Tapatalk 2

----------


## Ken Foose

I happened to notice the huge jump in "likes" on the Herp Alliance face book page.  Anyone notice this?  Did you also notice that almost 3,000 of those like originated in Jakarta?  And that another 2,000 + came from South America?  Herp Alliance  aka Andrew/Erica are so desperate to look relevent they are actually purchasing "likes" for the Herp Alliance face book page.  That's a great way to spend donation money that's supposed to be targeted to protect our rights.  I told you these people can't be trusted.  They are pathetic.  Don't send them any money, don't "like" Herp Alliance on face book, and don't fall for the bull that they are looking out for us.  They are only looking out for themselves.  Support USARK.  Thank you

----------

_Kodieh_ (02-16-2013),Megg (03-04-2016),_Valentine Pirate_ (02-17-2013)

----------


## Methos75

I wonder if Mark Sward knows they are using his pic as their FB cover?

----------


## Lady mkrj58

Wow this is old  however an interesting read.

----------

