# Miscellaneous Herp Interests > Venomous Animals >  False water cobra?

## mischevious21

It's been awhile since Ive had time to get on here, but now I have some free time and a question so here it goes. I was offerd a snake called a false water cobra, but I can't find any information on it.. On one site it did say they were venomous, but it wasnt a very reliable site and rather it is or not I cant find any info on how to care for it.. Though if it is venomous I probably will decline on the offer lol. Any info?

----------


## mooingtricycle

They are similar in essence to Hognose. They are rear fanged, and are Mildly venomous. I think it would be the same thing as, some people react to the venom, while others do not. ( but im no expert on them by any means)  

Wes Pollock (Willomn) here breeds them, and i believe was bitten by one and posted about having a slight reaction to one. ( if im not mistaken anyway) maybe he will chime in with better info than my own. 

They get big, and are active. Something to be aware of if its something you are interested in.

----------


## gothkenny

I'm by NO means an expert, but I thought Hognose snakes just had a bacteria, not an actual venom of sorts. Who knows, I'm probably insane.  :Wink:

----------


## wilomn

They are venomous. The delivery system makes envenomation unlikely. The venom, for me, cause some swelling and localized pain. The pain was not bad, like a really good sunburn and only lasted a few hours. The swelling was gone totally in about 3 days.

They are one of the most interesting snakes you'll ever keep.

----------


## RichardA

They are closer to a Madagascan Hognose bite then a North American.

They are very aggressive feeders and that is when most bites and escapes occure. Pretty cool snakes though. Get to a good size and need a few special requirements but not too bad. I will try to dig up a good care sheet on em later, gotta hed to work..... :Razz:

----------


## Lucas339

GET IT!!!  those are one of my favorites and i hope to have one in the future!  they are very active and are fun to hold.  a friend of mine has one and its temperment is great!  seems to be an easy species to care for.

----------


## wilomn

This covers the basics.

       General Care and Keeping of False Water Cobras
                              Hydrodinastes gigas


False Water Cobras are one of the largest colubrid (egg laying) snakes in the world. Adults can attain sizes of eight feet or longer and weigh over ten pounds. These snakes are FAST, they have excellent eyesight, and very little fear of anything. They are one of the few snakes who will watch you watching them. They are also a rear-fanged snake and should be treated with the respect they deserve.

False Water Cobras are cannibalistic, especially when babies. Do NOT house them together. Adults can do well in pairs and trios but must be separated during feeding.


False Water Cobras hatch out in the 12 to 16 inch range and are about as big around as an average mans little finger. They are fully functional, able and ready to climb, swim, burrow, explore and eat. Most especially eat. False Water Cobras (FWCs) are voracious feeders.

Babies will usually start to eat pink mice or pink rats. Stubborn feeders can almost always be started on small goldfish. As the snake grows food of proper size should be provided. A medium FWC, in the 3 to 5 foot range, will eat small to medium rats or fish similar in size to a 7 to 10 inch trout. Large FWCs, in the 6 to 9 foot range can eat large trout sized fish or medium rats. These snakes do not do well on extremely large meals. Better to feed a smaller food more often than large meals.

When handled regularly FWCs will remain quite tame as a rule, there are always exceptions. If handling is infrequent there is a good chance that your snake will not be easy to hold. Fast is too slow a word to describe the speed at which these snake can move. When handling it is recommended that they be picked up in one smooth motion. Do not wave your hand in front of the snake or start and stop your hand where the snake can see it. Food items move like that. This species is a sight hunter; they have excellent vision. You do not want to be mistaken for food.

A ten gallon terrarium is sufficient for your slithering friend until it is about 2 feet long. At that point it will need to be stepped up to a bigger cage. For an adult something 4 feet long, 18 inches deep and at least 18 inches tall is adequate. FWCs are fantastic climbers. Given an enclosure with room to climb, they will do so with gusto. False Water Cobras are not shy.

A temperature range of 70F on the cool side of the enclosure up to 90F on the warm side will keep your snake happy. Temperatures over 95F are not tolerated well, especially if a meal has recently been consumed. Be sure to use a thermometer or temperature probe to monitor the heat of the cage.

A variety of beddings are fine for FWCs. Pine shavings, sani-chips, newspaper, or shredded aspen are all acceptable. Stay away from sand and gravel. Snakes that eat a lot also defecate frequently. 

Give your snake at least 3 inches of material in the bottom of its cage. This will enable you friend to burrow. They do occasionally want privacy. They will also need some sort of hide, a hollowed out log, an upside down litter box with a hole cut in one side, anything that can be sterilized and does not have sharp edges will suffice. 

Humidity will only be an issue for those living in arid areas. 40% to 60% is an acceptable range. They do not need to be kept wet, though they do need a water bowl big enough to soak in. Too dry will be detrimental. These snakes need some moisture, they are rainforest natives.

Kept properly False Water Cobras can live 15 to 20 years or more and provide quite a bit of entertainment. They are large alert active snakes that will have you seriously pondering whether or not snakes can think.

----------

dr del (12-19-2008),_Lucas339_ (12-19-2008),_Pyrate81_ (09-13-2013)

----------


## Patrick Long

Take everything Wes has to say for reals peeps!


These snakes are some of the quickest, smartest snakes in my collection. I would not hesitate to call them THE smartest snake that I have.



ps.....smelly poop

----------


## anendeloflorien

Wow they sound like a blast to keep  :Very Happy: . Great care info Wes! That one should go in the caresheet section  :Good Job:  I might just have to keep an eye out for any for sale, just don't know if they're considered illegal here (no venomous) or whether they fall in the same category legally as a hognose.

----------


## West Coast Jungle

I had the pleasure of handling one of Wes's adult FWC in Anaheim and boy can they move. Fast and agile, very impressive animal. I didnt think a snake that big could be so coordinated and quick.

----------


## redpython

if i am not mistaken, the venom of these snakes is way  more potent than what people tend to believe.

----------


## Patrick Long

> if i am not mistaken, the venom of these snakes is way  more potent than what people tend to believe.


You are mistaken.


To my brother, bee venom is VERY potent, to me, its nothing.

...just sayin

----------


## redpython

I dunno, I believe there is serious research being done on this.  I am pretty sure that Jim Harrison of the Kentucky Reptile Zoo has said that their venom is the equivalent of a timber rattlesnake...they just can't deliver it as effectively.

----------


## Skiploder

> You are mistaken.
> 
> 
> To my brother, bee venom is VERY potent, to me, its nothing.
> 
> ...just sayin


You mean he goes into anaphylaxis?

Completely different and has nothing to do with venom toxicity.  

In addition to Harrision, Venomdoc has also compared it to rattlesnake venom, which when compared to other venomous species, is not very potent. The difference is that rattlesnakes have a much more efficient delivery system and produce more of it.

Think of the delivery system this way - a bullet by itself is not lethal.  A bullet fired from a gun, at your head has a good chance of killing you.  A bullet thrown at your head by your kid won't.

Whether you are allergic to a bee sting or not, you will have localized symptoms.  The severity of those symptoms may vary.  People who are allergic to be venom develop distinct allergy symptoms - a dry cough, sneezing, wheezing, itchy hives. 

In severe allergic reactions, or anaphylaxis, symptoms include sudden anxiety and weakness, difficulty breathing, tightness in the chest, very low blood pressure, loss of consciousness, and shock. Anaphylactic shock can occur within minutes and result in death. 

Reports of people having allergic reactions to snake venom, especially colubrid venom, are extremely rare.  

When a hognose or a brasilian smooth snake bite you and you experience localized swelling, pain, excessive bleeding, etc. - those are by-products of the venom - not allergic reactions.

----------


## Patrick Long

> You mean he goes into anaphylaxis?
> 
> Completely different and has nothing to do with venom toxicity.


You sure about that???


We can all see that you spit the farthest in the wind.

----------


## Skiploder

> You sure about that???
> 
> 
> We can all see that you spit the farthest in the wind.


 :Confused:

----------


## Patrick Long

> 


Being allergic to specific venoms has EVERYTHING to do with it.

----------


## Skiploder

> Being allergic to specific venoms has EVERYTHING to do with it.


Who said different?

People develop allergies to anything.  

An allergic reaction is different than the clinical symptoms of the venom.

----------


## Patrick Long

> Who said different?
> 
> People develop allergies to anything.  
> 
> An allergic reaction is different than the clinical symptoms of the venom.


Ummmmm YOU did





> Completely different and has nothing to do with venom toxicity.

----------


## Skiploder

> Ummmmm YOU did


Pat - 

Different venoms have different effects - neurotoxic, hemotoxic, cytotoxic, etc.

Allergic reactions to a venom are separate from the specific reactions from the components of the venom.

If you and I get the same bite from a FWC, we may have mild swelling and pain from the venom.  If I'm allergic, then perhaps I have wheezing, itchy hives and maybe even worse symptoms.

That has nothing to do with the venom being more potent to me as opposed to you.  It just means I have an allergy to a component in it.

----------


## Patrick Long

> Pat - 
> 
> Different venoms have different effects - neurotoxic, hemotoxic, cytotoxic, etc.
> 
> Allergic reactions to a venom are separate from the specific reactions from the components of the venom.
> 
> If you and I get the same bite from a FWC, we may have mild swelling and pain from the venom.  If I'm allergic, then perhaps I have wheezing, itchy hives and maybe even worse symptoms.
> 
> That has nothing to do with the venom being more potent to me as opposed to you.  It just means I have an allergy to a component in it.


So doesnt said allergy, make this venom more potent TO YOU?...in fact it does.


Im done arguing potato poTOTo. 


The fact is, if you have a reaction to the venom, you may be in serious trouble. But if your not allergic, like Wes said, some swelling and stiffness will occur.

----------


## Skiploder

> Pat - 
> 
> Different venoms have different effects - neurotoxic, hemotoxic, cytotoxic, etc.
> 
> Allergic reactions to a venom are separate from the specific reactions from the components of the venom.
> 
> If you and I get the same bite from a FWC, we may have mild swelling and pain from the venom.  If I'm allergic, then perhaps I have wheezing, itchy hives and maybe even worse symptoms.
> 
> That has nothing to do with the venom being more potent to me as opposed to you.  It just means I have an allergy to a component in it.





> So doesnt said allergy, make this venom more potent TO YOU?...in fact it does.


I get it what your saying.

In my opinion no.  The actual clinical strength of the venom remains the same.  But again, I now get what you were saying.  My argument is that the potency or strength is the same - your bother is just more sensitive to it than you are.

If you developed a sensitivity or an allergy to FWC venom due to years of being exposed to envenomations, it doesn't mean that the venom produced by your animals suddenly became stronger - it just means that your body has developed an allergy or sensitivity to it.

----------


## Skiploder

> The fact is, if you have a reaction to the venom, you may be in serious trouble. But if your not allergic, like Wes said, some swelling and stiffness will occur.


Agreed.

Are we having an argument?  I thought we were having a discussion............  

Spitting in the wind comments aside, I was under the impression that this was fairly cordial - did I miss something?

----------


## mooingtricycle

Isnt the potency** of venom, also different from different snakes of the same species? * similar in essence, but still variations within*?

I remember learning this somewhere..... KY reptile zoo's videos maybe.... ? I could be mistaken.

** maybe not potency so much as... the components within the venom?

----------


## Patrick Long

> I was under the impression that this was fairly cordial - did I miss something?


mmmmm I LOVE cordial cherries

----------


## Skiploder

> Isnt the potency** of venom, also different from different snakes of the same species? * similar in essence, but still variations within*?
> 
> I remember learning this somewhere..... KY reptile zoo's videos maybe.... ? I could be mistaken.
> 
> ** maybe not potency so much as... the components within the venom?


I don't think your mistaken.

Venom potency can vary by age, gender, diet  and locality.

I have the pdf files of Wolfgang Wuster's "The Role of Ecology In Determing Venom Variation in the Malayan Pit Viper",  "Geographic Diet Variation of Mojave Rattlesnake (Crotalus scutulatus)" by Salazar and Lieb and "Ontogenetic Variation in Venom Composition and Diet of Crotalus oreganus concolor: A Case of Venom Paedomorphosis?" 
where some of these factors are discussed.

----------


## RichardA

FWC are far more HOT then NA Hogs.

There are people that can get bit by Copperheads and have little to no reaction, however is that a chance you really want to take.......?

----------


## Skiploder

> FWC are far more HOT then NA Hogs.
> 
> There are people that can get bit by Copperheads and have little to no reaction, however is that a chance you really want to take.......?


You have a PM..

----------


## RichardA

got it.....  :Razz: 

I would like to point out here, I have kept giant Mad. hogs. These are in the same area of danger to people as a FWC...in my opinion, for size and the decent toxicity of the venom. If you pay attention to what you are doing and do not let them get a good grab at you, you should be fine. There is a guy that got hit by a Mad. hog at a show and was rushed to ER do to the venom and his reaction to it. Rear-fanged are nothing to be taken lightly. People use to say the same thing as whats being said here about Boomslangs, then people died from the bites. 

I would rather all be informed going in that there is a risk, be it small or large, to keeping ANY snake, rear-fanged are just in area of their own.

A full grown FWC could pack enough behind the bite to get some fang play in without chewing, keep that in mind as well.

As I stated before, they are really cool snakes and are fun to watch eat.

----------


## RichardA

> mmmmm i love cordial cherries




lol

 :sploosh: 


I also just realized this entire post is in the wrong area.......ROFL

----------


## wilomn

> got it..... 
> 
> I would like to point out here, I have kept giant Mad. hogs. These are in the same area of danger to people as a FWC...in my opinion, for size and the decent toxicity of the venom. If you pay attention to what you are doing and do not let them get a good grab at you, you should be fine. There is a guy that got hit by a Mad. hog at a show and was rushed to ER do to the venom and his reaction to it. Rear-fanged are nothing to be taken lightly. People use to say the same thing as whats being said here about Boomslangs, then people died from the bites. 
> 
> I would rather all be informed going in that there is a risk, be it small or large, to keeping ANY snake, rear-fanged are just in area of their own.
> 
> A full grown FWC could pack enough behind the bite to get some fang play in without chewing, keep that in mind as well.
> 
> As I stated before, they are really cool snakes and are fun to watch eat.


As a matter of curiosity and it's subsequent satisfaction, do you have any evidence of envenomation due to the Mad. Hognose bite? It is possible your friend merely panicked? Perhaps there was an allergic reaction.

Have you ever seen or do you know of any studies done on the venom of the Mad. Hognose?

As a counter to your statement above regarding size and venom comparison, have you ever put a full grown FWC next to a full grown Mad. Hognose? Sort of like comparing sapling pines to full grown Sequoias. Have you been bitten by both species or do you know anyone who has? Not do you know someone who knew a guy whose friend was bitten, but do you personally know someone, or two different someones even, in which envenomating bites occured?

I've never been fond of the Mad. Hognoses, thought they were on the ugly side, no offense intended to those who like them, so I have never kept them other than to resell them. I have talked to several people who love them and have done a bit of research, admittedly limited, but have seen nothing to support your statement equating FWC venom to that of the Mad. Hognose. Perhaps I missed it.

Thanks for your help.

----------

_Patrick Long_ (12-21-2008)

----------


## RichardA

Hope your comparision of the size was leaning on the hog side, as mine were over 4 feet and only a few years old. Grown are 6 feet and heavy girth.

I put on my post....in my opinion based on my personal findings. True research into these snakes is just now being really looked into. My friend was standing next to the guy that got bit, and yes it was shock, as is ALL envenomations. Whether hemo or neuro the venom works by attacking one or the other, either your body reacts or it doesnt. Like I said there was a case right here where a 12 year old girl got bit by a copperhead and had no reaction other then mild swelling, and a friend gets hit and is in the er room for 3 days. Hemotoxins are present in Brown Recluse bites, yet my friend can get bit and have no reaction, while others are having skin graphs done to replace all the damage.

Boomslangs.....enough said, there were people saying that they are not very HOT for years, now you have people running from them do to the venom they have.

I am not saying that the FWC are a snake to be looked at like a true viper, but dont put down the venom they have. I laugh at a bee sting while others can die from it.

----------


## wilomn

> Hope your comparision of the size was leaning on the hog side, as mine were over 4 feet and only a few years old. Grown are 6 feet and heavy girth.
> 
> I put on my post....in my opinion based on my personal findings. True research into these snakes is just now being really looked into. My friend was standing next to the guy that got bit, and yes it was shock, as is ALL envenomations. Whether hemo or neuro the venom works by attacking one or the other, either your body reacts or it doesnt. Like I said there was a case right here where a 12 year old girl got bit by a copperhead and had no reaction other then mild swelling, and a friend gets hit and is in the er room for 3 days. Hemotoxins are present in Brown Recluse bites, yet my friend can get bit and have no reaction, while others are having skin graphs done to replace all the damage.
> 
> Boomslangs.....enough said, there were people saying that they are not very HOT for years, now you have people running from them do to the venom they have.
> 
> I am not saying that the FWC are a snake to be looked at like a true viper, but dont put down the venom they have. I laugh at a bee sting while others can die from it.


I've had FWCs pushing 9 feet and 8 lbs. and as thick as my wrist. I'm not a small person. 

I was NOT shocked when I was bitten by one of my FWCs. There goes THAT blanket statement.

Were you aware that appx. 25% of bites by venomous snakes are dry? Ever think that may have been why there was no reaction to the copperhead bite? A puncture wound will cause localized swelling. Two would cause more. Hmmmm, wonder if that's what happened?

Unless I'm mistaken, there is some difference between insect venoms and reptile venoms. I'm not positive that an allergic reaction to one would indicate a predisposition by a bite from the other being deleterious to the one bitten. It could be, but I'm not in possession of any knowledge to back that up.

Do you happen to have a picture of what your friend says is a brown recluse? If he is truly immune, I suspect there are some venom research facilities that would love to meet him.

----------


## RichardA

LOL

#1 Snakes cannot shut off the venom glands, therefore there are no "dry" bites all have some venom to them if the fangs are in play. The real thing that happens is the snake pulls back before the pressure is applied to the glands, that is what is considered a "dry" bite, even though any venom around the fang or within the tube/groove will be deposited into the victim.

#2 I understand you do not know who I am or what I did in the invert community for many years, believe me, we know what Brown Recluses are. There are facilities that have some of my specimens on display there.

You were bitten, showed no signs, so. Many people share your experience. If you were allergic you would have.

Impressive size for a FWC would like to see pics if you have them. Note that most will never see that size out of theirs, that is quite impressive.

----------


## RichardA

BTW, I totally understand what you are saying. I just dissagree. I have been in and around the venomous community for years and have friends they have been all over doing it.

So no disrespect meant toward you in any way.

----------


## wilomn

> LOL
> 
> #1 Snakes cannot shut off the venom glands, therefore there are no "dry" bites all have some venom to them if the fangs are in play. The real thing that happens is the snake pulls back before the pressure is applied to the glands, that is what is considered a "dry" bite, even though any venom around the fang or within the tube/groove will be deposited into the victim.
> 
> #2 I understand you do not know who I am or what I did in the invert community for many years, believe me, we know what Brown Recluses are. There are facilities that have some of my specimens on display there.
> 
> You were bitten, showed no signs, so. Many people share your experience. If you were allergic you would have.
> 
> Impressive size for a FWC would like to see pics if you have them. Note that most will never see that size out of theirs, that is quite impressive.


You are correct, I have no clue who you are. I do know though, that you have not answered my question. Does you friend who was bitten by a brown recluse, and from what I infer, more than once, actually know that he was bitten by one, what a brown recluse looks like?

I have never heard a dry bite described in quite that manner.

I have always considered a DRY bite to be one free of venom, which being liquid, would negate the very Label itself.

Have you ever milked a hot snake?

In my gallery are some of the big FWCS I have had.

One last question, if my snakes can reach this size, and I am far from special, how is it you can state with such certainty that most who keep this species will never see that size?

----------


## RichardA

My friend who was bitten is a licensed science teacher and a member of many science realated groups, so he knows exactly what a brown recluse looks like, though most people have zero clue what they look like.

As far as my statement about size of FWC, most will not keep them long enough to ever see their full growth potential. You know that as well.

Milking snakes is pointless unless you are certified here. So I have no reason to milk any of mine. And I know where that line was headed. And yes venom will come out before the pressure is fully applied, that I have seen in person.

----------


## wilomn

> My friend who was bitten is a licensed science teacher and a member of many science realated groups, so he knows exactly what a brown recluse looks like, though most people have zero clue what they look like.
> 
> As far as my statement about size of FWC, most will not keep them long enough to ever see their full growth potential. You know that as well.
> 
> Milking snakes is pointless unless you are certified here. So I have no reason to milk any of mine. And I know where that line was headed. And yes venom will come out before the pressure is fully applied, that I have seen in person.


Here's the problem with ASSuming.

I have no clue how long anyone will do anything. Do you share your crystal ball?

I have milked hots. I have had occasion where NO venom was forthcoming until pressure was applied to the venom glands.

Heh, just the opposite of what you ASSumed.

Now, about those dry bites, I wonder why they call them dry?

----------


## RichardA

Why are apartments called apartments?

----------


## wilomn

> Why are apartments called apartments?


To whom do you address this apparently off topic yet possibly related to the subject at hand, question?

If it is to me, I must profess ignorance.

----------


## RichardA

That is the point. People call things what they deem.....doesnt mean that it is true or even remotely close to accurate.

----------


## wilomn

> That is the point. People call things what they deem.....doesnt mean that it is true or even remotely close to accurate.


Who are these people of whom you speak so freely?

I do NOT use words in ways that I do NOT mean to use them unless I am uninformed as to the true meaning of a particular word.

For example, when I say the lake is dry, I actually mean there is no water in the lake. I am not saying that there may be some water somewhere in this lake. Had I wanted to say there was water in the lake, I would have said so.

Have you ever seen a food item bitten by a hot snake have no reaction to that bite? I have. I wonder if that was a dry bite? Sure seems to me it would be.

I will flat out say your above statement is inaccurate for those who actually speak the English language, not just throw words out to impress those who know no better.

----------


## Patrick Long

> who know no better.


VERY nice use of no and know!!  :Very Happy:

----------

