# Ball Pythons > BP Husbandry > Advanced BP Husbandry >  Need some perspective (gore)

## Morphie

I am pretty angry about something, which means I am probably not seeing things clearly.  I would like some of the folks here with tabula rasa to review the situation and tell me if I'm being unreasonable.

The following photo is of a snake that is currently in the condition depicted in the photograph:



The person who has this snake now claims to have "rescued it from the freezer" - as in a guy at a petshop left a rat in with this snake and was going to freeze it when he discovered her in this condition.  The "rescuer" took the snake home and has rinsed her wounds with betadine, but not taken the snake to the vet for pain meds, ABs, or any other kind of evaluation or treatment.  The list of excuses for this is a mile long.  She is online asking strangers for treatment advice but completely ignores calls for the animal to be taken to the hospital.   :Rage: 

Is it just me or is this... abhorrent beyond belief?  Am i just being emotive?  Should this snake just... be allowed to try to heal itself with no treatment or pain meds?  I just can't get over that someone would allow an animal to suffer like this.  I said in a fit of anger that i'd like to call animal control on this person, and they offered their address so i could do it.  I am afraid AC would laugh at me if i did it, and it would be horribly awkward all the while "hi, i was online and someone was being mean to a snake".  like... wtf.

Please tell me i'm not crazy  :Confused:  :Rolleyes2:  

What, if anything, can i do??  I am so upset...

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## LadyOhh

That is the WORST rat damage I have ever seen.

That snake needs extensive veterinary care, or needs to be put down.

That is HORRIBLE. 

 :Mad:  :Mad:  :Mad: 

But, there is very little that you can do... Unless this woman gets the hint. 

Pray??  :Please:

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_Crazy4Herps_ (02-15-2009)

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## Melicious

-Bites her bottom lip and wipes away her tears.-  

Just...someone save that poor snake.  Please.  If I found that snake, I'd have dropped everything and taken him/her to the vet.  I'd have paid anything I could to take care of it.  I'd have just...omfg.  What kind of a human being tries to take care of an animal like that with no experience?  I can't even type I'm crying so hard.  It's breaking my heart.  How can anyone be so blind?  

I'd call animal control.  I'd call the police.  I'd call a nearby vet.  I'd do whatever I could, but I don't know how to get hold of these people and where this person lives.

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_Crazy4Herps_ (02-15-2009)

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## rwreptiles

That is terrible. That snake needs a vet and fast!!!

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## Morphie

Is anyone in Michigan who can go help?!?!

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Artistry Exotics (01-17-2010)

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## West Coast Jungle

I am beyond words

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## mainbutter

If you are emotional and angry beyond belief, you are totally in your right mind.  As stated in a previous post, the snake needs to be taken to the vet for extensive work or be put down.  Nothing less is acceptable.

That snake MIGHT be able to survive those wounds without vet care, but I would bet against it.  It would be hard for me to believe that whoever is taking care of that snake will be able to prevent a fatal infection without a trip to the vet.

I can't believe people sometimes.

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## hoax

> I am pretty angry about something, which means I am probably not seeing things clearly.  I would like some of the folks here with tabula rasa to review the situation and tell me if I'm being unreasonable.
> 
> The following photo is of a snake that is currently in the condition depicted in the photograph:
> 
> 
> The person who has this snake now claims to have "rescued it from the freezer" - as in a guy at a petshop left a rat in with this snake and was going to freeze it when he discovered her in this condition.  The "rescuer" took the snake home and has rinsed her wounds with betadine, but not taken the snake to the vet for pain meds, ABs, or any other kind of evaluation or treatment.  The list of excuses for this is a mile long.  She is online asking strangers for treatment advice but completely ignores calls for the animal to be taken to the hospital.  
> 
> Is it just me or is this... abhorrent beyond belief?  Am i just being emotive?  Should this snake just... be allowed to try to heal itself with no treatment or pain meds?  I just can't get over that someone would allow an animal to suffer like this.  I said in a fit of anger that i'd like to call animal control on this person, and they offered their address so i could do it.  I am afraid AC would laugh at me if i did it, and it would be horribly awkward all the while "hi, i was online and someone was being mean to a snake".  like... wtf.
> 
> ...


I removed the picture because seeing it once was to much. I think if you have the address then you should call animal control for sure. If this moron is so stupid that they will not help this animal then some one must help. She is not saving the snake she is destroying it slowly

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_Alexandra V_ (02-01-2011),_broadude_ (12-18-2008)

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## LostNFound

i saw this ... I simply cant believe this person thinks the snake dosent need to see the vet!! gosh i took my dog in today, it was an emergency appt, for a tummy ache. I got her a shot for pain, one for the pukies, and fluids .... Why would that person EVER think that poor snake doesn't need or deserve pain meds at the very least!! If that persons arm looked like that snakes back they would be at the ER!! it's horrible just horrible!!  UGH!!

I actually read the whole post over there ... I wanted to rip that person a new one but I think you did a better job than I could have  :Wink:  I don't see why you shouldn't call animal control!  honestly people call CPS because of things they saw on you tube ....  this person ADMITS to not taking that poor thing to the vet! Call animal control report the snake and ask for an email addy and screen shot their posts!! At the VERY least AC will require a trip to the vet and will demand proof of the visit.

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## bja86

God that's awful,send that person to jail for animal cruelty!

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## Enya

Honestly, I am at a loss for words. Unbelievable

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## juddb

Oh my, i dont know what to say.  I cant believe it.  Poor thing

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## shadi11

i don't know whats worse how long did the rat chew on this poor thing or someone who is just going to let it fix itself.

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## Cheryl Marchek aka JM

Go ahead and call animal control on the hope that you were given the correct address~ but probably the address offered will not be the address where the animal is actually located......who in their right mind would admit to having that animal in thier care, refusing medical care to it, and offer their address to concerned strangers?  But call them just to cover all the bases.

It's sad~ but that animal needs to be destroyed.  I know there is a "Chance" and all that~ but it's highly unlikely that wound would heal~ even with extensive vet care..............

The kindest thing would be to destroy it~ if whoever has it is reading this~

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## Morphie

> i don't know whats worse how long did the rat chew on this poor thing or someone who is just going to let it fix itself.


would you be able to go pick up the snake and take her to the ER?  or at the very least to a clinic tomorrow?  The girl seems to have a condition that she not just get euthanized - like she won't give her up unless it's to try and get her fixed up.

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## Morphie

> The kindest thing would be to destroy it~ if whoever has it is reading this~


I agree, Cheryl, but this girl is seriously stubborn.  She seems to be willing to work with the idea of someone coming to take the snake to the vet for treatment (but not euthanasia).  

It's something, at least.  *hopes*

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## janeothejungle

That is beyond words. You cannot 'save' a snake in that condition (spine ligaments, nerves and most of the connective tissue are completely gone). They did not 'rescue' the snake at all. This animal needs to be put down as quickly as possible, I can't even imagine how much suffering this poor thing is having to bear.  

If the rescuer is reading this, PLEASE take this animal to the nearest emergency vet. If you cannot afford it, please PM me, but one way or another, you CANNOT let this go on any longer. Please do the right thing.

~Kat

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_broadude_ (12-18-2008),ClemonsKimberly (02-05-2010)

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## janeothejungle

Jeez. Even the tops of the vertebrae have been chewed off in places. I'd love to know who the SOB that left the rat in with it is...........



~Kat

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## Melicious

> Jeez. Even the tops of the vertebrae have been chewed off in places. I'd love to know who the SOB that left the rat in with it is...........
> 
> 
> 
> ~Kat


Ditto.  I'd love to make sure that this person was punished to the full extent of the law.  Is there a law they could be ripped to shreds with?  I mean, Jeez, I can't even look at the picture anymore.  I keep crying.

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## SlitherinSisters

That's absolutely disgusting. I can't believe it hasn't been taken to the vet or put down. That snake has to be in the worst pain possible. The poor thing should be put out of it's misery if I'm seeing correctly. The ribs are.....ate....at least that's what I'm seeing  :Puke:

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## OhBalls

There is an entire album with photos of this poor snake
not for the faint of heart!!
http://s472.photobucket.com/albums/r...scue%20snakes/

this really breaks my heart

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## Slim

With a wound that bad, I just don't see how this snake will be able to avoid infection.  Even if a strong course of AB's were started ASAP, I think it might be too late.  If quality of life means anything to this girl, she should gently set that poor little guy in the freezer.

Pet shops like the one this snake came from give PETA all the ammo they will ever need.

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## Enya

> There is an entire album with photos of this poor snake
> not for the faint of heart!!
> http://s472.photobucket.com/albums/r...scue%20snakes/
> 
> this really breaks my heart


Wow, I am glad this person took the time to get good camera angles of the snake instead of acting on the situation at hand. &%@#$ :Rage:

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## roosterman2173

I wonder about the condition of her other animals and the enclosures they have to live in. She should have let the pet store owner freeze it. She's no better than him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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_broadude_ (12-18-2008)

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## Enya

I second that.100%

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## LostNFound

me too.

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## MDB

OMG this is such:cens0r:, hope the person serves sometime for this but most likely will face no reprocussion because thats the kind of world we live :Mad:

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## Melicious

I added a comment to one of her photos.  I'll probably end up posting it on all of them.  Darn it.  I can't stop crying.  The selfishness of this girl is just...it's more than I can understand.  Goddess forbid that ever happened to one of my snakes, I would put them down in a heart beat.  That animal won't survive.

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## MDB

> I added a comment to one of her photos.  I'll probably end up posting it on all of them.  Darn it.  I can't stop crying.  The selfishness of this girl is just...it's more than I can understand.  Goddess forbid that ever happened to one of my snakes, I would put them down in a heart beat.  That animal won't survive.


who is she?

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## Melicious

> who is she?


I don't know, but that link takes you to her photobucket account.  I have an account so I left multiple comments on her pictures.  I'm probably going to post it over and over and over again on her pictures.  Maybe.  I think if y'all have accounts you should do the same.  It's the only thing I can think of.

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## MDB

so is she a member of this forum? How did you come acrossed all of this?

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## janeothejungle

Makes you wonder, If snakes expressed audible emotion (ie whimpered or cried) would this have ever gone this far?



~Kat

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_broadude_ (12-18-2008),_Bruce Whitehead_ (12-17-2008),grunt_11b (01-04-2009),ilovemylizard (01-09-2009),Muze (12-17-2008),_STORMS_ (12-19-2008)

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## MDB

I think Im gonna be sick. I cannot even begin to imagine the pain she is in. I wish I could take it all away.

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## Melicious

> Makes you wonder, If snakes expressed audible emotion (ie whimpered or cried) would this have ever gone this far?
> 
> 
> 
> ~Kat


That's...wow.  It still would have gone on.  I can almost guarantee it.  Human beings are the most cruel, ruthless, apathetic creatures out there.  Snakes don't toy with their food.  They don't trophy it up on their hide box.  They eat to survive.  People just don't give a crud about them.  They're scared.  They're disgusted.  They think it's gross that snakes have to kill to survive.  They don't realize that as humans, we do too.  We just have the luxury of buying it prepacked at a grocery store.  I'm ranting.  I'm sorry.  I'll stop.  I'm just so...infuriated.

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## Lateralus_Love

What the hell!!!!  :Rage:  :Mad:  For how extensive those wounds are, that rat had to have been in there for DAYS!! Maybe even a couple weeks! No one looked in on it at ANY time?! That's absurd! Not only does this girl need to be located so the snake could be saved from her "rescuing," but the stupid pet store needs to be shutdown!

Is there any update on this?? Have you been able to get AC over to the address and see if that's really the girl's location?

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## grammie

that's just unbelievably horrible. how can someone think they are helping by keeping this poor creature around for a photo shoot?

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## BMorrison

That is 100% sad and BEYOND ridiculous. That person would be better off euthanizing it themselves... freezer, shovel... whatever, that snake will not recover from an injury like that and the fact that the person thinks they're "rescuing" that poor snake makes me sick. 

Also that rat or whatever did that to the snake had to have been in there for a LONG LONG LONG LONG LONG time, more than a week I'm guessing.

 I saw someone here post that this is in Michigan? I wanna know where the snake came from and go pay a visit to the operation they run because from what that picture tells me they have no right to be selling or keeping ANY animals.

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## Wh00h0069

That snake would have been better off in the freezer, in my opinion.

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## Bruce Whitehead

One of the many reasons I lose patience with self appointed "rescuers" of animals that should be put down.

"Save" an animal, out of our own selfishness, and then leave it to suffer because we lack the resources to care for it.

What forum is this happening on... I think I am not the only person that would like to know.

bruce

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## Morphie

I didn't want to tell everyone because it would initiate a flood of anger and emotion in her direction, and a mix of good and bad communications that might or might not help - but now she's got some dude in there defending her actions and advising her to continue what she's doing - so go for it.

http://constrictors.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22330

I don't care what anyone does.  Just get this animal to the hospital (or crush its head).

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## Kesslers Kreatures

Wow thats just crazy, I cant believe shes so stubborn in thinking she has the means to care for the animal...

Some people think they can save the world... Thats sad, Let us know if you find help for her Morphie

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## Melicious

http://constrictors.com/forums/showt...915#post209915  -Sighs.-  I can only help.

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## Bruce Whitehead

This has been on my mind all day. 

The selfishness and lack of compassion from someone that thinks they are an animal lover... this enrages me. 

I think someone should phone the SPCA on her. If she has an animal that is in dire need of veterinary attention and she REFUSES to take it in, then she is making a choice to let this animal suffer. 

She took it on, it is her responsibility and it is in her care.

She is negligient and she is contributing to the suffering of an animal in her care.

The animal needs to be removed, and if deemed appropriate charges laid against her.

Bruce

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_anendeloflorien_ (12-18-2008),_broadude_ (12-18-2008),grunt_11b (01-04-2009),ilovemylizard (01-09-2009),_janeothejungle_ (12-17-2008),_Slim_ (12-17-2008),_STORMS_ (12-19-2008)

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## dr del

Hi,


I don't see how the animal has any chance of coming back from that kind of damage at all.

Even if it managed to avoid the infections and survive long enough for scar tissue to form what range of motion or sensation could it realistically have?

It would be a rare vet willing to try and help this animal do anything but die pain free as quickly as possible.

Home/ no treatment for any animal with that severe an injury is the absolute opposite of kindness. 

I don't doubt the intentions she had were good but the end effect is horrible in the extreme from the animals point of view. 

However I can see a rat being able to inflict that kind of damage quite quickly - overnight would be plenty of time for a determined or hungry rat to do that kind of damage.

I hope she comes to her senses quickly or someone calls the authorities - sitting watching it suffer is no answer I could live with and call myself human let alone an animal lover.  :Tears: 


dr del

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## dr del

Hi,

She does keep saying it has no nerve damage - does anyone know what its range of movement is like?


dr del

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## Morphie

> Hi,
> 
> She does keep saying it has no nerve damage - does anyone know what its range of movement is like?
> 
> 
> dr del


In the conversation she and I were having in chat on that board, she did mention that it can move.  Of course, her account of events is questionable as she is not a qualified technician of any kind.  I am hoping to have the animal removed soon - if she'll give me her address.

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## Morphie

If you guys seriously think there is some chance that the local SPCA would care enough about this situation to intervene, then please help me locate them.  I've asked for her address but I'm not sure she's going to give it to me.  In the meantime, here are some leads:

The photobucket account was listed as "urt_starion".  Googling that name yields "ducxtreme".  Googling that yields a bunch of pages put up by a guy calling himself Mr. Pat.  This is all relevant because the person who showed up to defend her on the other forum calls himself Mr. Pat - so they're either very familiar or related or room-mates or something.

I found a number and an address posted by Mr. Pat on another forum in 05, but it might be too old or be the address for a garage:

http://xceedspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?p=329616

Funny how they have so much money for fixing up cars and gaming online, but they can't even get some Rx NSAIDs for their "rescue".

 :Stab:  :Stab:  :Stab:

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## katiadarling

I used to work at a humane society and our animal control would take welfare calls quite frequently and go out just to check on a situation.  If the address posted on the other forum is correct, Wyandotte Animal Control would be the first ones to try (and if they aren't the correct party they should be able to direct you to someone who can be of more assistance).  Here is contact info I found on Petfinder  

Wyandotte Animal Control
1170 Grove Street
Wyandotte, MI 48192
Phone: 734-324-4445

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## katiadarling

So, I'm looking at Wyandotte's website  and it lists the animal control number as voice mail only.  The non-emergency police number is 734-324-4405 some one should answer that and might be able to help you.  Best of luck, I wish I were closer... grrrr.....

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## littleindiangirl

I know of at least one very good SNAKE vet in lansing. 
S. Wayne Beasley
Cedar Creek Vet
2295 N. Williamston Rd
Williamston 48895
517-655-4906

http://www.herpvetconnection.com/

http://www.anapsid.org/vets/#vetlist

http://www.arav.org/usmembers.htm

If I could, I would drive down to get this animal from her, but I do have to work during the day.
Has anyone given her the list of vets?

http://www.anapsid.org/vets/mich.html

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## norm

that snake is probably going to have to be put down.

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## BMorrison

BTW Connie Wayne Beasley is the freakin' man! Very good referral!

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## nixer

sorry guys and gals my thoughts on this are not appropriate for this site, well that is unless someone wants to give a green light to it (just for this thread)

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## Pandora

> sorry guys and gals my thoughts on this are not appropriate for this site, well that is unless someone wants to give a green light to it (just for this thread)


I agree; which is why I've been holding back my tongue since I first saw this and her amazing photography skills :Good Job:

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## AaronP

I hate to say it but I think the animal should be humanely put down.  But that is only my opinion.

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## gmcclurelssu

i have to agree, this is one that needs to be put down.  i'm no vet, but even if you manage to keep infection out, the damage looks to be too extensive, and keeping infection out is a BIG if.  i hate to look at it from a financial point of view, but you also have to consider how much it will cost to keep it alive and to heal it.  everyone has their own limit in that regard, but this looks to be past mine.

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## shadi11

> I know of at least one very good SNAKE vet in lansing. 
> S. Wayne Beasley
> Cedar Creek Vet
> 2295 N. Williamston Rd
> Williamston 48895
> 517-655-4906
> 
> http://www.herpvetconnection.com/
> 
> ...


From what I have read she doesnt believe in vets. She thinks the snake isnt in pain..  It doesnt seem like it. and it moves without problem. I have had rescues. There comes a time when you have to see what quality the animal has. I am from Mi as well. From what I have found not so far from her. But I seriously,  even though she says she wants to, dont think she has an intention of getting rid of it.  
There a couple types of rescuers in the world. Those who do it for the love of the animal and those who do it for the glory..

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## janeothejungle

Well, I finally got to vent over at the constrictors forum. Looks like there will likely be one less forum for me to visit. This whole thing makes me sick. I cannot believe the idiocy.



~Kat

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## Melicious

> Well, I finally got to vent over at the constrictors forum. Looks like there will likely be one less forum for me to visit. This whole thing makes me sick. I cannot believe the idiocy.
> 
> 
> 
> ~Kat


You're definitely not alone, darlin'.  Thank you for trying to bang her head against a wall.

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## babygerl3094

wow... if u see the rest of the pics it will break ur heart  :Tears:  here i thought the pic posted on here was a bad one... poor thing  :Tears:

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## Bruce Whitehead

I hate what low-rent animal hoarders are capable of.

Now I have to go see the trail of destruction that Kat left on the other forum...

Bruce

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## janeothejungle

It's like I suddenly have tourettes when I visit that thread. That silly, stupid woman makes me want to be physically violent. It's a good thing there are 3,000 miles between us or I'd be camped on her doorstep.


~Kat

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## Morphie

> It's like I suddenly have tourettes when I visit that thread. That silly, stupid woman makes me want to be physically violent. It's a good thing there are 3,000 miles between us or I'd be camped on her doorstep.
> 
> 
> ~Kat


I feel similarly.  

I;ve done everything i can to find the address but it's just not happening.  I've pinned it to a guy named Pat who works occasionally at Unleaded Racing Tech in MI.  He lives in Taylor.  Hopefully with some help we can pin him down using the IP address that they probably both posted from on the other forum. 

This sucks so much.

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## Morphie

They said they're taking it to the vet.  I said "prove it".

We'll see.

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## Melicious

> They said they're taking it to the vet.  I said "prove it".
> 
> We'll see.


Why would it matter?  If the vet tells them the snake needs to be put down, then she'll walk out.

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## littleindiangirl

> BTW Connie Wayne Beasley is the freakin' man! Very good referral!


The man knows his stuff! I don't mind the hour and half drive to see him, he won me over the second we met him.

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## scales owner

> I am pretty angry about something, which means I am probably not seeing things clearly.  I would like some of the folks here with tabula rasa to review the situation and tell me if I'm being unreasonable.
> 
> The following photo is of a snake that is currently in the condition depicted in the photograph:
> 
> 
> 
> The person who has this snake now claims to have "rescued it from the freezer" - as in a guy at a petshop left a rat in with this snake and was going to freeze it when he discovered her in this condition.  The "rescuer" took the snake home and has rinsed her wounds with betadine, but not taken the snake to the vet for pain meds, ABs, or any other kind of evaluation or treatment.  The list of excuses for this is a mile long.  She is online asking strangers for treatment advice but completely ignores calls for the animal to be taken to the hospital.  
> 
> Is it just me or is this... abhorrent beyond belief?  Am i just being emotive?  Should this snake just... be allowed to try to heal itself with no treatment or pain meds?  I just can't get over that someone would allow an animal to suffer like this.  I said in a fit of anger that i'd like to call animal control on this person, and they offered their address so i could do it.  I am afraid AC would laugh at me if i did it, and it would be horribly awkward all the while "hi, i was online and someone was being mean to a snake".  like... wtf.
> ...


Exactly why I NOW feed frozen when you get to jumbo size the rats become a threat! That is so sad. :Tears:  Hopfully it can make a full recovery.

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## Melicious

> Exactly why I NOW feed frozen when you get to jumbo size the rats become a threat! That is so sad. Hopfully it can make a full recovery.


Please forgive me if I come off of as rude, but I feed live and I've never encountered something anywhere near that in my wildest dreams.  That picture depicts what NOT to do when feeding life.  That picture depicts neglect upon the owner's part.  That doesn't depict what normally happens.  If done properly, snakes stand a very minimal chance of even getting bit while feeding live.  What this owner did was neglectful, and what the girl who's currently in possession of this poor animal is doing is also neglectful.

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_broadude_ (12-18-2008),dr del (12-18-2008),grunt_11b (01-04-2009),_SecurityStacey_ (12-18-2008)

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## broadude

> It's like I suddenly have tourettes when I visit that thread. That silly, stupid woman makes me want to be physically violent. It's a good thing there are 3,000 miles between us or I'd be camped on her doorstep.
> 
> 
> ~Kat



You are not alone.

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## Bruce Whitehead

> Please forgive me if I come off of as rude, but I feed live and I've never encountered something anywhere near that in my wildest dreams.  That picture depicts what NOT to do when feeding life.  That picture depicts neglect upon the owner's part.  That doesn't depict what normally happens.  If done properly, snakes stand a very minimal chance of even getting bit while feeding live.  What this owner did was neglectful, and what the girl who's currently in possession of this poor animal is doing is also neglectful.


That is the what burns me most about this. Foolio says her pictures were taken to document the effects of live feeding.

She is holding this snake hostage and denying it medical care as a means of promoting her own agenda and to maintain power and control.

That is not typical of live feeding. You do not feed jumbo rats to BPs. 

I am with Kat on this. Except my thoughts are more along the line of what if someone flayed this person to the bone, carved out a few vertebrae and then left her to wallow in her own urine and feces... would she beg for medical help. What if she did not have a voice. I mean she can drag herself around and move a bit, so I guess she is OK?

Bruce

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grunt_11b (01-04-2009),_Pandora_ (12-18-2008),_scoobyark_ (12-19-2008)

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## anatess

SOMEBODY PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DO SOMETHING!
I'm in Florida.  Is there anything I can do?  This snake needs to go to the vet.  I completely understand her reasoning for not wanting to put him down.  If I found this snake, I would feel I have to do everything in my power to help the snake without putting him down.  I'm not a vet, so I cannot tell if the snake can recover or not.  I understand there are a lot of you who feel the freezer route is the best route, but really, I would rather a highly qualified vet make that decision.  But leaving the snake as it is SHOULD NOT BE AN OPTION!!!
If she can't afford the vet, I'll set up a collection.  There are several people who would forego lunch to donate the lunch money.  I'm sure of it!
I feel helpless here...

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## broadude

> SOMEBODY PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DO SOMETHING!
> I'm in Florida.  Is there anything I can do?  This snake needs to go to the vet.  I completely understand her reasoning for not wanting to put him down.  If I found this snake, I would feel I have to do everything in my power to help the snake without putting him down.  I'm not a vet, so I cannot tell if the snake can recover or not.  I understand there are a lot of you who feel the freezer route is the best route, but really, I would rather a highly qualified vet make that decision.  But leaving the snake as it is SHOULD NOT BE AN OPTION!!!
> If she can't afford the vet, I'll set up a collection.  There are several people who would forego lunch to donate the lunch money.  I'm sure of it!
> I feel helpless here...



HELLO!!  Why does everyone think that the Reptile community is a bunch of suckers?  Everyone and their friends has a hand out.  I would not send this (insert preferred term here) one single penny.  

After what she has shown herself to be, we have no guarantee that she would even use it for the snake!! :Wag of the finger:

----------

grunt_11b (01-04-2009)

----------


## Morphie

Someone has already offered to pay for the vet to have it euthanized - she rejected that option.

Instead, she has decided to delete all of her posts and act like everyone in the world but her is Just Stupid.

I wrote to her local animal control claiming that I had some concerns about a neglected animal, offering to send photos, their IP address (we've confirmed that she and Mr_Pat live together) as well as the name of their ISP and the name of the town they live in.  It will take a court order to get more information than that, i think  :Sad: 

We'll see what the AC says.  I'm feeling pretty defeated.

----------

_broadude_ (12-18-2008)

----------


## broadude

> Someone has already offered to pay for the vet to have it euthanized - she rejected that option.
> 
> Instead, she has decided to delete all of her posts and act like everyone in the world but her is Just Stupid.
> 
> I wrote to her local animal control claiming that I had some concerns about a neglected animal, offering to send photos, their IP address (we've confirmed that she and Mr_Pat live together) as well as the name of their ISP and the name of the town they live in.  It will take a court order to get more information than that, i think 
> 
> We'll see what the AC says.  I'm feeling pretty defeated.


Wonder if it would be possible to match up that IP against NataLIE's?  May not be her, but I am curious.

----------


## Morphie

> Wonder if it would be possible to match up that IP against NataLIE's?  May not be her, but I am curious.


I don't have NataLIE's - but if you can get it, i have theirs.

(i don't think they're the same - Jlynn, as much of a moron as she is, handled the situation on CU 100,000,000x more eloquently than did NataLIE on Fauna - it's unlikely that a change that big occurred in such a short span of time).

----------


## broadude

> I don't have NataLIE's - but if you can get it, i have theirs.
> 
> (i don't think they're the same - Jlynn, as much of a moron as she is, handled the situation on CU 100,000,000x more eloquently than did NataLIE on Fauna - it's unlikely that a change that big occurred in such a short span of time).



You are probably right.  The similarities are purely superifical. :Good Job:

----------


## gothkenny

Michigander here!  :Smile: 

Anyway, I'll be willing to help with whatever is needed. I don't have money but I do have access. Is there anything I could do to help out with this?

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## anendeloflorien

Wow, that's just unreal........ It's amazing that that animal is still alive but keeping it alive after sustaining injuries like that is just CRUEL and INHUMANE! I can't believe anyone could think that it's in the animals best interest to let it continue like that.
 Obviously infection is going to set in unless that snake is kept in a 100% clean, germ free environment like friggin bubble boy which most VETs do NOT have set up. Then having that snake die slowly as infections take over her body..... It's disgusting. I really do hope that they are taking it to the vet tomorrow as they said and I hope they listen when he tells these numbskulls to have her put down. At that point it's the only thing that can be done and prolonging her life even by the few DAYS that they've been sitting with their thumbs up their asses is totally unacceptable. 

Keep us updated please Morphie

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## Beardedragon

This makes me SO mad... Morphie and Kat I aplaud you both for saying something. This lady is an idiot, I cant even begin to say how much I want to say. Mr. Pat keeps saying that the vets do not have the right equipment to save this poor snake, so what the hell makes him think she can do it! 

And to that forum, someone should write a complaint for alowing members to edit their posts after a reasonable period of time.

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## anatess

> HELLO!!  Why does everyone think that the Reptile community is a bunch of suckers?  Everyone and their friends has a hand out.  I would not send this (insert preferred term here) one single penny.  
> 
> After what she has shown herself to be, we have no guarantee that she would even use it for the snake!!






> Someone has already offered to pay for the vet to have it euthanized - she rejected that option.


Okay, at the risk of getting 5 million hate mails, I'm going to stick my neck out there.  I could be completely off-base here, but I have a feeling I'm not...

The way I understand this is, she is not opposed to the snake getting treated.  My understanding is that she is trying to get help from the herp community to figure out ways to treat this snake without taking it to the vet.  And that is because, SHE IS SURE, that if she takes the snake to the vet, the vet will EUTHANIZE it.  And that is simply an option that she will not take.

Okay, for the record, if a reputable vet tells me that the best thing for my animals is to get it euthanized, then I will be all for it.  But, if my kids' pediatrician will tell me that the best thing for my kids is to euthanize them I will fight them tooth and nail to the grave.  So, if I just try to see things in her perspective, I can understand that she is not looking at this snake as an animal but as a human being (like the kids in my example).  You can agree to disagree with her on that particular philosophy but you can't completely say she is wrong.  Because, I do still believe that she cares for this snake, she just has a few gears in her brain that are wired differently from most pet owners.

Take for example that incident here in Florida where a woman stayed alive because of the machines (feeding tube, breathing tube, etc. etc.).  Her husband wants to take her off the machines and let her die peacefully, her parents fought all the way to congress to keep her on the machines.  Now, to be honest, I'm with the parents.  But, at the same time, I can understand the logic behind taking her off of the machines.  So, replace parents here with this snake "rescuer", replace the woman with the snake... and you got a similar situation.  This is just the way she is thinking right now.  I cannot judge her for this.  But, what she is forgetting with all these emotions going around, is that the snake remains untreated without vet care because of her anti-euthanisia stance!

So, really people, we cannot convince her to change her philosophy on it.  That is what she believes.  We can argue with her until we're blue.  She will not budge and the snake continues to suffer.  

What we can do, is help her find a vet who will guarantee to treat the animal and KEEP IT ALIVE.  That is the only way she will budge and the snake gets HELP!  If she will hesitate on this because of the cost, that is what I offered above.  I will set up a collection and see what we can raise and make sure it goes to the vet.

Who knows, this can be just like that post here where a bp.net member stitched up his snake's heart instead of just throwing it in the freezer and the snake is saved...

But, I think, more than likely, this girl will have to face facts sooner rather than later, that to keep this animal alive will cost a ton of money that she can't afford unless, of course, she goes her regular route of letting "nature take its course"...

Sigh.

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## Bruce Whitehead

The critical element here is that she has not taken it to a vet... she will have the say as to whether or not it gets euthanized. So she is refusing medical care for an animal the desperately needs it.

If the only thing the vet could do would be to minimize its suffering, then so be it.

But this arrogant fool is doing nothing to it. That equates to animal cruelty.

And if she is so certain that ANY vet will euthanize it, then she knows that it is beyond repair.

Bruce

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_broadude_ (12-18-2008)

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## Bruce Whitehead

Another reason she may have disappeared is that it is likely that the snake has died in her care...

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## wax32

I did'nt read the thread at the other forum... but here is my take on a what may be going on here:

She's a PETA nut who thinks feeding rats to snakes is cruel and she wants to point out what MIGHT happen to somehow make us not feed rats... the snake may not even be in her possession. She could just have pictures of it, and it is already "in the freezer".

All that is hypothetical of course... maybe my brain just can't wrap itself around a situation in which someone would be so cruel to an animal.

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## shadi11

> Michigander here! 
> 
> Anyway, I'll be willing to help with whatever is needed. I don't have money but I do have access. Is there anything I could do to help out with this?


Me too. I offered since I couldnt get more info to send pics to my vet and get opinions on what they would recommend as treatment. I would doubt they would recommend a treatment but I offered to cover the vet bill if that is what was needed even though I dont have a ton extra due to the time of year. Been talking to Morphie since it started..  
I do not think she intends on getting rid of the snake. nor does she truly want help.. She wanted the pats on the back for rescuing.

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## juddb

Out of control!  I really cant believe this.

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## kellysballs

I tried really hard to be civil to her about what needed to be done the the snake. I spoke the the vet I work for today and showed him the pics. He said that if the snake was taken to the vet before infection set in it could be saved. He could not comment on if the snake had proper motor skills still since he did not examine the animal. 

The point is the snake doesn't have the be put down but it does need medical attention if it is going to live.  I tried to giver her info on a vet close to her so she could take it in and I tried to inform her of payment options that exist for vet bills. I don't think she even bothered to read my posts.

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## FlowRock

This is so sad...
At one point I can understand the girl, I would also want to help the creature hurt so bad, but....
Everything has been said, if a human being would have been hurt that bad, he would get the best available medical treatment by professionals.
If she is that sure, there is no proper vet in her area, she should be reasonable enough to see that the best way to prevent further suffering for that creature, is to let it die as fast and painless as possible, because she will never be able to heal it without professional help.
You would not put a guy with an open spine in your garage and treat it yourself, because you think your local doc is an nerd...

On the other hand, i am sure, if she manages it to get this poor thing on track again, there will be a lot of cheering and applause on all the forums... on the back of the poor creature... my 2 ct on hypocracy

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## shadi11

There is plenty of good vets within an hour of her. I gave her mine last night that is about 45 minutes from her. and they come recommended by everyone. I havent heard one person with unpleasent things to say about them. I have not heard yet on weather the snake made it there yet today. And am somehow doubting I will hear

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## FlowRock

I WOULD never doubt there are able and good vets in her area for sure, but I doubt she is able to see...
I guess she took the snake with a good will and now is overwhelmed by the descision she has to make... 
Invest a lot of $ with an uncertain outcome or to decide to end the pain on her own...

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## janeothejungle

AAAAHHHHH. This dumb ____ twit and her alter ego (who share the same IP, btw), have now taken the same story to a different forum, only now they are pretending it 'just happened' and they were 'called in to help'. See the BS for yourself......

http://www.reptileforums.com/forums/...ad.php?t=52221

I ranted on the last forum, it's someone elses turn.

 :Rage:  :Rage:  :Rage:  :Rage:  :Rage:  :Rage:  :Rage:  :Rage: 

~Kat

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## Melicious

> AAAAHHHHH. This dumb ____ twit and her alter ego (who share the same IP, btw), have now taken the same story to a different forum, only now they are pretending it 'just happened' and they were 'called in to help'. See the BS for yourself......
> 
> http://www.reptileforums.com/forums/...ad.php?t=52221
> 
> I ranted on the last forum, it's someone elses turn.
> 
> 
> 
> ~Kat


Hand me the torch my dear, and I will.

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## juddb

Why ask for advice if you know what the advice will be, and then disagree??? :Confused:

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## FlowRock

Omg, wheter she is a "curse word" troll who got hand on some terrible pics or she is just **text removed by dr-del** without visiting a vet... 
All her posting wont help the snake the slightest bit,

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## janeothejungle

She doesn't want to help the snake. She wants people to pat her on the back and tell her what a great person she is.



She is now claiming it has been to the vet. Anyone seen proof of that?


~Kat

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## Stewart_Reptiles

Sadly some people get into rescue just to get the attention.

Rescuing means having a good understanding that sometimes the best thing to do is euthanasia so the animal no longer suffers, she is obviously missing that point and only care about what SHE wants to do.

She is not into rescuing for the sake of the animals but to boost her ego.  :Rage:   :Mad:   :Rage:   :Mad:   :Rage:   :Mad: 

I wonder if the next forum she posts a story on will be here?  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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grunt_11b (01-04-2009)

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## Bruce Whitehead

> Hand me the torch my dear, and I will.


You did VERY well too.  :Smile:

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## Bruce Whitehead

> She doesn't want to help the snake. She wants people to pat her on the back and tell her what a great person she is.
> 
> 
> 
> She is now claiming it has been to the vet. Anyone seen proof of that?
> 
> 
> ~Kat


I just asked for it... I doubt it has happened... it would take seeing the snake on today's paper, with a copy of the vet bill for me to believe it.

She is a liar and that is not in doubt.

Bruce

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## Melicious

I've been corresponding with her a little.




> Originally Posted by Melicious
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by JLynn
> 
> ...

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## Pandora

I'm in the process of ranting on that forum

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## Morphie

looks like leaning on her helped, you guys.  Thanks for all the support, and thanks to Melicious and Shadi11 for keeping in touch with her.

She's lucky this isn't fauna - she'd already be ripped apart.

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## Melicious

> looks like leaning on her helped, you guys.  Thanks for all the support, and thanks to Melicious and Shadi11 for keeping in touch with her.
> 
> She's lucky this isn't fauna - she'd already be ripped apart.


Yeah, let's hope it works out for the best for this poor snake.  -Whimpers.-  I just want to put it out of its misery.

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## katiadarling

I hope it helped and she's actually treating it.  I'm still not all that convinced.  I know that medicine names are complex, but she spelled at least two wrong on her list of meds.  I'd think if she really wanted to convince people that she was treating it, she could at least spell the names right.... argh, I have hardly any faith in people!

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## SecurityStacey

Well... I'm gonna take that she took down the photobucket pictures and deleted threads on other websites in that she is not doing what she should.  She didn't like what she heard and I'm guessing that poor snake will die slowly and painfully in the next few days, if it hasn't already.  For the snake's sake I hope that it has already died and isn't suffering anymore.

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## Morphie

I saved some photos just in case  :Smile:   I had a feeling she would do that.

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## Lateralus_Love

> AAAAHHHHH. This dumb ____ twit and her alter ego (who share the same IP, btw), have now taken the same story to a different forum, only now they are pretending it 'just happened' and they were 'called in to help'. See the BS for yourself......
> 
> http://www.reptileforums.com/forums/...ad.php?t=52221
> 
> I ranted on the last forum, it's someone elses turn.
> 
> 
> 
> ~Kat


It's telling me this is an invalid thread link  :Sad:

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## Morphie

reptile forums deleted the thread or hid it (i hate places that just absorb threads like that - ugh).

since this thread is incomplete without the original photo:



If one of the mods here would like to put it back in place on the first post (since she's now removed it) it's in a permanent location now and won't get moved again.

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## anatess

Morphie,
We can't follow the other threads anymore... have you had any updates on the bp's condition?
I was really hoping she'd find her way here... but I guess if she did, she saw this thread and backed out in a hurry.

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## Morphie

> Morphie,
> We can't follow the other threads anymore... have you had any updates on the bp's condition?
> I was really hoping she'd find her way here... but I guess if she did, she saw this thread and backed out in a hurry.


I am no longer in touch with the rescuer - she's understandably avoiding me since I brought  a lot of stuff down on her head by getting you guys involved and making a huge fuss in the first place.  She does have contact with a few folks that have sent me updates, but all i've heard is that she's undergoing treatment with some injections, cremes, and a flush prescribed by her vet.

I think that if the snake dies, we'll never hear about her again, and if it lives, we'll know it when Jlynn comes back to gloat about how she "saved a life".   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## snakelady

This is just so awful!! How could it even be alive like that.  :Surprised: 

The poor poor thing!

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## filly77

I just read this thread and humans never cease to amaze me, an animal like that with its spine showing and it took her *HOW* long to bring it to a vet? (if she even did) it should of been humanely put down, no questions about it. Also, is there any proof this animal actually came from a "pet store"? For all we know it was her snake to begin with, she was the moron who left it in with a rat and maybe thats why she refused to have it put down? maybe she sees it as "fer fault?" No clue.. but I wish either the snake the best in a super amazingly speedy recovery or... a quick death. (if we can consider anything past even an hour of being like that quick..)

Heart breaking..  :Sad:

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## broadude

> I just read this thread and humans never cease to amaze me, an animal like that with its spine showing and it took her *HOW* long to bring it to a vet? (if she even did) it should of been humanely put down, no questions about it. Also, is there any proof this animal actually came from a "pet store"? *For all we know it was her snake to begin with, she was the moron who left it in with a rat and maybe thats why she refused to have it put down? maybe she sees it as "fer fault?"* No clue.. but I wish either the snake the best in a super amazingly speedy recovery or... a quick death. (if we can consider anything past even an hour of being like that quick..)
> 
> Heart breaking..


Very insightful! We'll never know..but it's quite possible.  Hopefully, even if she's not posting, she's reading and know we wish her only the best for the sake of the animal.

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## filly77

oops shoulda been "her fault" lol

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## shadi11

I will see if i can find out some updates. She was supposed to go back to the vet this week sometime.. I will let you know what I hear.

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## katiadarling

Thanks Shadi,  I'd love to hear how everything is going.

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## zail

Any news on this?  I hope the snake has been put out of it's misery....

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## shadi11

Snake is still alive. Not showing signs of infection and being treated still under vet advise. I am waiting on possibly updated pics..

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## grunt_11b

Did you ever get any updated pics?? I hope the snake makes it.. But those wounds were pretty bad.. I'd love to know if it's still doing ok..

Alan

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## Sebrina

Are you sure that was a rat bite? The cut looks almost like a slice and the snake would have fought back and at least scared off the rat before it got in THAT DEEP. I mean I honestly don't know and wasn't there but I've seen rat attacks before and never seen it attack the same area like that and make an almost perfect curve, looks almost like it was a slice, again can't say for sure.

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## dsirkle

I just saw this thread today and haven't read every post. I do see that she has posted this stuff on at least a few forums. Am I cynical to wonder if this is a scam to get people to sent monetary donations? Has anyone determined this situation to be genuine?

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## Morphie

> I just saw this thread today and haven't read every post. I do see that she has posted this stuff on at least a few forums. Am I cynical to wonder if this is a scam to get people to sent monetary donations? Has anyone determined this situation to be genuine?


It seems rather unlikely - for all of her acting up and being frustrating on the forums, she never once asked for a penny.  At least one member offered to pay for the euthanasia and the besnaked party showed no interest in this arrangement as a potential scam or otherwise.

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## dsirkle

> It seems rather unlikely - for all of her acting up and being frustrating on the forums, she never once asked for a penny.  At least one member offered to pay for the euthanasia and the besnaked party showed no interest in this arrangement as a potential scam or otherwise.


It sure is a tear jerking photo. I just wondered about it.

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## Morphie

> It sure is a tear jerking photo. I just wondered about it.


yeah, that's fair, but no - there was no evidence of foul play at least in that regard.  the girl just wanted "advice" but ignored all demands that it go to the nearest animal hospital until she felt sufficiently pressured.  I hope to hear that the snake got better or died quickly - it certainly was awful.

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## TheMolenater2

WHAT WAS THE WOMAN SMOKIN. Im sorry, but thats awful! This woman better be riding the guilt train! Hopefully the Ball will make a full recovery...

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## shadi11

Heres some updated pics.. looks to be the wound is healing.. To the best of its ability at least


She is still under vet care and she said she just shed so they are trying to get as much off..

----------


## Melicious

That poor snake.  -Sighs.-  My heart goes out to him/her.

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## Lucas339

well that looks alot better than i expected.  i hope it pulls all the way through.  at least she is taking it to the vet.....or at least thats what she says.

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## shadi11

Well with the names of medications I was given I dont doubt it was taken. I gave her the info on the best place to take it.. Thats all I could do.

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## JKExotics

OH BOY! That's the WORST BP attack I've seen and let me tell you the runner up barely lost a little skin. Jesus, no one took that animal to the vet? What was she thinking? You realize that kind of cruelty even if she did not participate in the slaughter she is an accessory to the fact simply because SHE DID NOTHING about it! I love all my snakes but honestly I'd put the snake down rather than have it suffer for the rest of it's life, even if those DEEP holes do heal up the snake will never be the same.

----------


## katiadarling

still ouch.  I almost threw up from the "healing" photo.  Poor snake.

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## Morphie

shadi thanks for the continued updates.  Hope the poor girl makes it after everything she's been through   :No:

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## shadi11

> shadi thanks for the continued updates.  Hope the poor girl makes it after everything she's been through


I will continue to try to find out how its doing. I hope she makes it as well being that its been thru a ton..   :Please:

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## dsirkle

You can actually see the spine just under the skin. Paralysis was only a millimeter away. But I do believe that the snake can recover if no infection sets in.

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## JKExotics

> You can actually see the spine just under the skin. Paralysis was only a millimeter away. But I do believe that the snake can recover if no infection sets in.


To even get down that far you have to rip through nerves and much needed tissue. That snake will be in pain for the rest of it's life.

----------


## zail

Wow, that is an amazing testement to the recovery power of the snake... Snake is looking way better than I thought it would.. now it's come this far I hope it pulls through...

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## anatess

I know I'm a minority on this but I was really hoping the snake can pull through without getting euthanized.  There's a sign on the reptile store close to my house that reads, "The only bad snake is a dead snake.".  I think he got it from Steve Irwin or something... I'm sooo glad to know the snake is healing and getting good vet care.

Anyway, Shadi, et. al., do you know if the snake finally started feeding?  I'm very concerned that the snake will refuse to go near a rat - alive or dead - from all that trauma...

----------


## shadi11

> I know I'm a minority on this but I was really hoping the snake can pull through without getting euthanized.  There's a sign on the reptile store close to my house that reads, "The only bad snake is a dead snake.".  I think he got it from Steve Irwin or something... I'm sooo glad to know the snake is healing and getting good vet care.
> 
> Anyway, Shadi, et. al., do you know if the snake finally started feeding?  I'm very concerned that the snake will refuse to go near a rat - alive or dead - from all that trauma...


I just checked on that and so far the snake is still refusing food.She even offered smaller food with hopes it may not see that as a threat. I guess we can wait and see. That is my fear as well .

----------


## Texas Dan

I didn't read through the whole thing, but I gather she took it to the vet. I was going to say, there's a guy I know on a sportbike forum that can find anything on anyone.

A guy said "Try and find me" to him, and the next day he had pictures of his car at his job! Posted his address, phone number, full name etc.

Guess it doesn't matter now. I hope everything goes well, I can't see pictures up here at work most of the time.

----------


## Haitun

That's sick. That poor little snake got eaten. :/

 This kind of thing doesn't happen in 3 seconds when you just turn your back. It at LEAST should have taken 5 minutes for that rat to chew to the bone and eat.. everything around it... ugh. Why wasn't she watching? 

 It reminds me of the article I found online once about someone who nailed a ball python into a phone poll in many different places (including through his jaw)... alive... And he survived, but barely...


  Shameful.. 

 Hope she'll keep recovering...

----------


## Oxylepy

That animal should have been put down. Her spine is showing. Her freaking spine is showing. Even keeping it alive is torture imo, and it should have been put down, either in a freezer like Ralph Davis stated for Caramels that don't do well and have major kinks, or put into a chamber and gassed like what is done to rodents. In either case it would be better for the snake than living after that extensive of injuries. Had all the skin on my sides and back been ripped off I would be pleading for death, not medical attention.

----------


## rebeccabecca

Rats can make good human pets but not snake pets! Rats can hurt a snake with in seconds! Never leave anything other then pinkies alone in a snake tank!

----------


## ilovemylizard

Since we haven't heard the owner anywhere, showing pics of the miracle healing and a successful rescue on her part, I am going to step out here and say that I think it probably passed away. 

If it had survived, I do not think she would have been able to resist rubbing that in for everyone, considering her attitude/replys on other forums she posted on.

That it may have passed on, IMO is the best possible outcome for that python...I have done skeletal articulations of pythons and boids in the past, and I can tell you from first hand experience, for the amount of the spinal column that is visibly showing, *quite large* amounts of muscle, ligaments, and nerves would have to be removed...that poor thing would never, and I repeat *never*  have had a normal life without constant agonizing pain, if it had survived.

Humans have morphine, Vicodin, and other strong painkillers...which in some cases barely even take the edge off of the pain, depending on the injury...to say that snake would be normal and happy, without even the limited benefit of such powerful narcotic meds is utterly absurd and unbelievably selfish...

I sincerely pray that python has left this world, and that it will never again suffer at the hands of indifferent, selfish and cruel humans...

----------

_blackcrystal22_ (02-15-2009),Bloodsong (02-20-2009),_hoax_ (02-17-2009),_iCandiBallPythons_ (02-02-2009),_llovelace_ (02-02-2009)

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## blushingball419

this is one of the most horrible things I have ever seen. I actually have tears in my eyes now from seeing both the disgusting first pic and the healed pics. god that poor snake  :Tears:   :Tears:  I'm glad it managed to heal somewhat and it does looks better...but it's still awful. 

like someone said on the first page (I can't remember who because I'm so upset now), if I had found a snake in that condition I would have dropped everything to bring it to a vet _right away_, even if I didn't have the money to. I would have gotten the money somehow. I don't even want to think about imagining how much agony that poor snake was in, and to deny it anything that would help ease its pain is simply abhorrent. 

Glad the issue was "resolved" though and I hope the snake continues to heal successfully. But god :cens0r:  :Rage:  some people!!!!!!!

and whoever caused this snake's suffering initially, whether through negligence or otherwise, should definitely be punished somehow. WTF is wrong with people???!!!  :Rage:  :Mad:  :Rage:  :Mad: 

okay I think I'm done now  :Smile:  sorry when I saw this I just had to say something  :Razz:

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## shadi11

As far as I last knew a couple weeks ago the snake was still alive. I know its not the greatest thing. I was willing to go get it to take and have it put down. The vet she is taking it to is a highly regaurded vet in the reptile community. I dont know if she is treating the snake because she sees hope or for the owners wishes. I can not check with her as my contact was thru a forum that seems to be down. if it comes up I can.

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## iCandiBallPythons

Wow I'm speechless.....

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## alohareptiles

Speechless and hoping for the best for the little one...Breaks my heart just thinking of what it might be going through...

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## Crazy4Herps

Ohhhhhh....... why did I just eat that piece of chocolate? Ohhh gosh, I'm going to puke now.....

That is beyond sick. That is beyond horrific. I have now officially lost hope in humanity...

I say you call animal control. That snake needs help!!!!!! That snake could _sooooo_ easily get infection and die. Actually, if it were my snake and I couldn't get access to any pain meds, I'd take it to be euthanized. I honestly don't think it has a chance on its own without help.

Oh my gosh, my stomach, my stomach. I'm really going to puke.

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## blackcrystal22

> Since we haven't heard the owner anywhere, showing pics of the miracle healing and a successful rescue on her part, I am going to step out here and say that I think it probably passed away. 
> 
> If it had survived, I do not think she would have been able to resist rubbing that in for everyone, considering her attitude/replys on other forums she posted on.
> 
> That it may have passed on, IMO is the best possible outcome for that python...I have done skeletal articulations of pythons and boids in the past, and I can tell you from first hand experience, for the amount of the spinal column that is visibly showing, *quite large* amounts of muscle, ligaments, and nerves would have to be removed...that poor thing would never, and I repeat *never*  have had a normal life without constant agonizing pain, if it had survived.
> 
> Humans have morphine, Vicodin, and other strong painkillers...which in some cases barely even take the edge off of the pain, depending on the injury...to say that snake would be normal and happy, without even the limited benefit of such powerful narcotic meds is utterly absurd and unbelievably selfish...
> 
> I sincerely pray that python has left this world, and that it will never again suffer at the hands of indifferent, selfish and cruel humans...


I noticed that too, the amount of tissue removed from in between the vertebrae. 

That girl, is a sick and terrible person for keeping that snake alive. It does not deserve the life she thinks shes giving it.

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_Shadera_ (02-16-2009)

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## JeffJ

this tuned my stomach....

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## rebeccabecca

Makes me so not want to feed live unless it's a blind baby!

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## nixer

wow this is an old thread! this is why you dont just leave a live rodent with your snake to make friends with. this didnt happen in 1 hour, but it can if that rodent is starving to begin with!

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## hoax

> Makes me so not want to feed live unless it's a blind baby!


This does not happen when feeding live responsibly. The only time i have ever left a rat unattended with one of my snakes is when it wasn't even weened and didn't have its eyes opened and that way only for a few minutes and it was done with. My snake was shy and deep in shed so I figured a few minutes might coax him to eat.

Mike

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## Melicious

> Makes me so not want to feed live unless it's a blind baby!


Feeding live can and is a very enjoyable part of owning snakes.  I've fed live for eight years and I've never had any big issues.  I use tongs or hemostats.  What happened to this poor animal is reprehensible, because the owner of this snake was careless and left a large rat in the enclosure for an extended period of time.  That snake was neglected.  I do not neglect my snakes.  You can feed live and not neglect them.  -Sighs.-  Too many snakes are injured because of irresponsible owners.

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## JeffJ

sorry if the question has arised, but i cant wrap my head around the fact that the snake did not defend its self, move, strike, something ANYTHING.... 

it just got chewed....

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## nixer

> sorry if the question has arised, but i cant wrap my head around the fact that the snake did not defend its self, move, strike, something ANYTHING.... 
> 
> it just got chewed....


im sure it did!

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## JeffJ

> im sure it did!


damn... this is why i monitor ALL my feedings, they are always with in 5 feet of me tops. 

and if i hear the hopper or fuzzie getting excited i just remove it and try again later.  i dont know if im paranoid but thats what i do.

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## hoax

> damn... this is why i monitor ALL my feedings, they are always with in 5 feet of me tops. 
> 
> and if i hear the hopper or fuzzie getting excited i just remove it and try again later.  i dont know if im paranoid but thats what i do.


Paranoid is better then injured animal. As long as that paranoia does not interfere with the husbandry of the animal.

Mike

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## nybp

on the other forum, the OP/rescuer/GOD, isnt posting anymore....meaning?? she deleted her account? that is a joke. y would u try to save a snake so badly hurt by yourself w/o professional help. THAT NEEDS A VET. or a freezer...no other options.

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## JeffJ

> on the other forum, the OP/rescuer/GOD, isnt posting anymore....meaning?? she deleted her account? that is a joke. y would u try to save a snake so badly hurt by yourself w/o professional help. THAT NEEDS A VET.* or a freezer*...no other options.


or a freezer? i don't get it.

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## shadi11

Just for those who wish to know I got an update today and all wounds are healed up well and she is still refusing food..  Which is what I expected to happen after an attack like that. she still wants to try though. 
Not saying I condone her behavior or what she has done or is trying to do but once I talked to her I did convince her to take it to a vet I know and it did recieve medical treatment. The only thing the vet said is that in these cases sometimes it will instill a fear in snakes. She is a good vet so that is why I recommended her. 
I just hope after all this she does pull thru

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## katiadarling

I'm curious what the wounds being "healed up well" means.  I don't see any way that the flesh would grow back around the vertebrae without it being a VERY long road (considering that the injury only happened two months ago and the pictures from a month ago still show gaping holes in the flesh.)

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## Crazy4Herps

A friend of mine has been bugging me about my "anorexic" BP, and asking why I don't leave the rat in all night. I've always told him to do a year's research on snakes before contradicting my husbandry, but he kept bugging me. I just showed him this thread and I don't think he'll bug me again.



Really, this snake wasn't being "saved" from the freezer. It would be better off in the freezer than with someone who is going to let it die slowly. This is so wrong. If it was a person with a torn up back with their spine showing, I guarantee they would give that person all kinds of pain meds and operations and whatnot. What's the difference here? That snake is hurting and nobody is going to help it!

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## JeffJ

> A friend of mine has been bugging me about my "anorexic" BP, and asking why I don't leave the rat in all night. I've always told him to do a year's research on snakes before contradicting my husbandry, but he kept bugging me. I just showed him this thread and I don't think he'll bug me again.
> 
> 
> 
> Really, this snake wasn't being "saved" from the freezer. It would be better off in the freezer than with someone who is going to let it die slowly. This is so wrong. If it was a person with a torn up back with their spine showing, I guarantee they would give that person all kinds of pain meds and operations and whatnot. What's the difference here? That snake is hurting and nobody is going to help it!


i dont get how a freezer is humane though.

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## nybp

> i dont get how a freezer is humane though.


bp = cold blooded.
cold blooded = body temp. effected by temp. around body
freezer= cold

see where im going with this

freezer lowers body temp.
low body temp. puts snake to sleep. better to fall asleep and go, then suffer infection, or chronic pain. due to stupid #$2 pet owners

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JeffJ (02-19-2009)

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## nevohraalnavnoj

> i dont get how a freezer is humane though.


Imagine if all your bodily functions slowed down...including pain....it would be as if your life is slowing down until you fall asleep.  Almost like on TV shows where they show someone who has had too much to drink, etc...and everyone is perceived in slow motion.

Being frozen hurts us because we are endotherms and our perception stays up to par until late late into the freezing process.  For ectotherms, their perception slows with their body temp, so they likely feel very little from early on in the process (I can't confirm this firsthand, obviously).

Some have advocated a fridge pre-cooling before the freezer, anyone recommend this?

JonV

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JeffJ (02-19-2009)

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## shadi11

> I'm curious what the wounds being "healed up well" means.  I don't see any way that the flesh would grow back around the vertebrae without it being a VERY long road (considering that the injury only happened two months ago and the pictures from a month ago still show gaping holes in the flesh.)


What I am told is all but one wound is covered. probably the worse one.  
They are putting the cream prescribed by the vet on it. All I can go on is what i am updated and I told some people back a bunch of pages I would keep the updates going. I can see if i can get some pictures again. But thats the best I can do

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## katiadarling

shadi- no worries!  I'm not trying to criticize you.  I just have some doubts about the purported healing process... at least they took it to a vet... but geez.

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## shadi11

Oh I know where your comming from. I have my doubts to. but what do you do.. I did the best I could and tried my best because Morphie asked me for help. I was going to take it in and have the snake put down. but she wouldnt go for it. I still have doubts for the snake. but after all shes been thru I can hope the owner is telling me the truth. After all this is all internet talk and I have not seen it in person nor do I know who she is. I just tried to get her to listen.

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## Bloodsong

Wow...that is all I can say to this level of idiocy.

I read this through for the first time last night and didn't respond because I could think of nothing to say.  I still can't, but I can say that just thinking about this gave me nightmares about my feeders (I feed f/t) doing a Frankenstien's monster act and doing something like that.  My wife had no idea what was going on when I sat up like that.

Bloodsong

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## Ginevive

Let me just say! This is not how normal live-feeding goes. I do it this way; I toss the food item in. Snake acts interested, and eats. or, snake is disinterested, coils up, and i remove the rodent after a few minutes.
I have never seen a rat go at a snake like that one had to have. That definately hda to have been, a starved (and probably dehydrated) rat, who would eat anything in sight fast, including another rat possibly.
So, is the snake's skin growing back and regenerating? 
I am disappointed; I would have put a bullet through the poor thing's head as soon as I got it home; instant mercy killing.

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## Crazy4Herps

> Let me just say! This is not how normal live-feeding goes. I do it this way; I toss the food item in. Snake acts interested, and eats. or, snake is disinterested, coils up, and i remove the rodent after a few minutes.
> I have never seen a rat go at a snake like that one had to have. That definately hda to have been, a starved (and probably dehydrated) rat, who would eat anything in sight fast, including another rat possibly.
> So, is the snake's skin growing back and regenerating? 
> I am disappointed; I would have put a bullet through the poor thing's head as soon as I got it home; instant mercy killing.


I agree. That had to be one hungry rat.
Actually, speaking of gore and hungry rats, my brother starved his pet rats once (don't worry, I kicked him hard for that) and the bigger one ate the other one... it pulled all of its organs through its mouth and ate them, leaving the hollow skin and fur. My first reaction when he told me was utter shock, but my second reaction was _why didn't you show me the body???_ I know it is terribly cruel and horrific, but I would have liked to see it. I am a surgeon wanna-be, so I am interested in that kind of stuff.

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## zail

shadi11 - thanks for posting the updates - keep them coming if you find out more.

And, to all those who think that a freezer is a humane way to kill a snake you sould be aware that even though the Snake is cold blooded, ice crystals will form internally before death, possibly causing pain to the snake before it dies.

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## anatess

> sorry if the question has arised, but i cant wrap my head around the fact that the snake did not defend its self, move, strike, something ANYTHING.... 
> 
> it just got chewed....


You know, I actually had a few experiences with this.  First, I had a bp that wasn't interested in the rat got almost-bit at the neck and the bp pulled back and struck.  And then, I got another bp that was interested in the rat and then the rat jumped on top of her to try to get out of the feeding tank and she curled into a ball!

I can see this happen with a ball python.  What I've observed with the 3 that I've owned for only a very few short months (so, yeah, I'm no expert, so take this observation with that in mind) is that my ball pythons are a little on the timid side.  I have a western hognose who hisses and puffs up like a cobra and close-mouth-strikes when you put a dead rat next to him.  I would think a live one next to my western hognose would probably get a heart-attack before it can take a bite.  Anyway, the 3 ball pythons I have don't do that.  They pretty much "sneaks up" on the rat in very slow deliberate movements.  Now, I have a spider that takes all of 10 seconds to ambush and coil (very indiscriminate to where the rat gets struck) while the pastel will take a looooonnnnggg time to position herself for the perfect strike and gets the rat at the back of the neck 100% of the time.  So, I can imagine that when a rat is big and aggressive, it sees the snake, finds no way out of the feeding tank, and have no other option but take a bite.  The timid snake (especially if it's not interested in eating at the time) coils into a ball hiding its head under him.  The rat now has free range to chew up the exposed body.  At this stage, I think a fearful ball python would just stay coiled making a few jerks with his body to try to get the rat off while keeping his head protected.  Leave him like that for a few hours and that picture is probably what you would get.
Of course, this is just my own logical extrapolation of what could possibly have happened with my meager knowledge of ball pythons.

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## Abaddon91

Im just wow I feed live but get ready to strike the rat even if it looks even a bit hungry people can really not be civil at times

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## 1stpalindrone

Am I missing something here? Like a photo that everyone can see that I cant.. I know Im blind, but I have my glasses on..

Maybe its cuz Im a noob 'round here, blahhh~

 :Snake:  <- see there! I can see this snake but...

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## 1stpalindrone

Mia  ?

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## Stewart_Reptiles

> Am I missing something here? Like a photo that everyone can see that I cant.. I know Im blind, but I have my glasses on..
> 
> Maybe its cuz Im a noob 'round here, blahhh~
> 
>  <- see there! I can see this snake but...


Old thread over 2years old, OP likely cleaned up their photobucket hence no picture  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## 1stpalindrone

> Old thread over 2years old, OP likely cleaned up their photobucket hence no picture


Ahh, I kinda wondered 'bout that..  Thx for the insight~ :Wink:

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## rdoyle

they took the pic off becouse it look bad. and gorey

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## kitedemon

Google images rat bitten ball python first one. It isn't the image missing here at least I don't think it is... but it is one of many like it out there, it happens, the thread is valid either way, pick an image and hold it in your mind as you read the thread.

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1stpalindrone (02-10-2011)

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