# Other Pythons > Giant Pythons >  Kalatoa 100% Pure SD Retic Progression (Pic heavy...)

## jmcrook

Hey! Just wanted to share a short progression of my now 6 month old Kalatoa Super Dwarf Retic. Not exactly a giant but a "tiny giant" of sorts. Apologies for some of the blurry cell phone pics, she doesn't exactly like to hold still for any period of time. 
Here's Phyllis, hatched by Daniel Solis mid Feb (started pipping 2/11/16, clutch all out of the eggs by 2/14/16)


Deep in shed the day she arrived (freezing cold and an entire day late... Thanks for sending her to Washington State after she was 20 min from my doorstep in Missouri, FedEx!)

Exploring her new enclosure. Itty bitty at 50ish grams and three weeks old.


Late march, about 6 weeks old here and all fired up!


5 months old and taking a bath after she shed. Dramatic size increase but still tiny for a retic


Just about 6 months old here. Does this every time she's out and I have a hat on. Growing like a weed! In the low 500 gram range up from low 50 gram range when she arrived. 

Mid yawn the other night. 


And Geoffrey, my 7 year old Pastel BP.

I can't get the most recent pictures to upload of Phyllis with her brightest colors yet when she was super fired up last night and looked amazing. Just wanted to share my newest critter with everyone! Thanks for looking!

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## Eavlynn

Phyllis is absolutely precious! That hat pic and yawn are priceless. Geoffrey is a cutie too  :Smile:

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_jmcrook_ (08-16-2016)

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## Yodawagon

Looks like mine. I bet ours are clutch mates! Got mine about the same time. Got mine from Daniel solis too. Mine got delayed because of storms in Memphis. Still arrived the right day though.

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_jmcrook_ (08-17-2016)

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## Tigerhawk

She looks great. Is she nippy like I've heard them to be?

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_jmcrook_ (08-17-2016)

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## jmcrook

> Looks like mine. I bet ours are clutch mates! Got mine about the same time. Got mine from Daniel solis too. Mine got delayed because of storms in Memphis. Still arrived the right day though.


Yep! From that same clutch he hatched in February. How is yours doing, yodawagon?
Yeah, FedEx totally dropped the ball and misread a label somewhere along the line and sent her clear across the country after she was in my city. Stressed both of us out quite a bit especially considering it was the only time I've had an animal shipped to me.

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## jmcrook

> She looks great. Is she nippy like I've heard them to be?


Thanks! Nope, she's a tad flighty when getting her out of the cage but settles right down. She is very food driven, has a feeding response that rivals any other living thing on earth, but I started hook training her from day one and she's never struck at me once I get a hook on her. Peed on me numerous times but no bites haha!

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## Ax01

wow she's looks awesome deep in blue. does she still get that dark going into shed?

awesome snake. i'm jealous. i want one sooo bad lol.

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_jmcrook_ (08-17-2016)

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## jmcrook

> wow she's looks awesome deep in blue. does she still get that dark going into shed?
> 
> awesome snake. i'm jealous. i want one sooo bad lol.


Nah, she's getting progressively lighter as she grows. She was super dark even right after shed when she was little(er) but now she's fairly light. Lots of super pretty greys and some yellow starting to come in a little stronger but it depends on the day. Definitely would like to get another some day down the road. Maybe a SD tiger or albino of some sort

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## Yodawagon

> Yep! From that same clutch he hatched in February. How is yours doing, yodawagon?
> Yeah, FedEx totally dropped the ball and misread a label somewhere along the line and sent her clear across the country after she was in my city. Stressed both of us out quite a bit especially considering it was the only time I've had an animal shipped to me.


Ours are definitely sisters. They sound very similar. Mine has a very strong feeding response, but not aggressive. Once she's out of her cage she's fine. Mine Looks smaller then yours, I think. We tried to measure her, and figure she's around 4 foot 8.

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## jmcrook

> Ours are definitely sisters. They sound very similar. Mine has a very strong feeding response, but not aggressive. Once she's out of her cage she's fine. Mine Looks smaller then yours, I think. We tried to measure her, and figure she's around 4 foot 8.


Yeah she's not aggressive but very, shall we say, assertive when it comes to feeding time. Same as yours, puppy dog tame once she's out of her cage. Closest measurement I've got on mine is currently around 3.5-4 feet. Got her to crawl along the back of the couch and stretched out a tape measure along side her. Saw another one of the clutch mates on Instagram (small world, right?!) the other day and apparently it's only like 2.5 feet. Mine was about 2feet the day she got here 5 months ago. What's yours weigh now yoda? Mine's at about 525grams last I weighed her

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## jmcrook

this is her SUPER fired up the other night. Most amazing colors I've seen on her yet. 


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_MR Snakes_ (12-12-2018)

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## cchardwick

Wow, that's an amazing looking snake!  I have a 50% Jampea dwarf retic at about six months old, she is just over 1000 grams.  It will be interesting to compare her growth side by side with yours.  I've thought about breeding my female to an SD albino, but that's still several years down the road.

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_jmcrook_ (08-18-2016)

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## jmcrook

Thanks cchardwick! Yeah I'm curious to see how much the 50% dwarf blood in yours affects the size. I know a guy with SD tigers that I may see about breeding with a few years  down the road but that's just a thought at the moment 


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## smkd13

That is just a beautiful Retic bud! Enjoyed the pictures fully

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_jmcrook_ (08-18-2016)

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## jmcrook

Thank you! I'll definitely be adding more pictures as she grows. 


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## wibihihi

woow
she is beautifuullll

 :Smile:

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_jmcrook_ (08-20-2016)

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## jmcrook

Latest photo of Phyllis. Took a huge pee/poop right after this so I was able to get an empty weight on her. 624grams now and between 4-4.5 feet long. Hard to believe this is the same little noodle that was as big around as my pinky and 56grams only 6 1/2 months ago. (Picture below)

Definitely packing on the size. Also has a small dry spot on the top of her head the last month or so that goes away after a shed but eventually comes back. Anyone have any thoughts on that? Just a few scales and doesn't seem to affect her in any way, just a slight concern to me. 



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## o.r hill

Beautiful, JM.  She has lightened up beautifully.  I like the blue-gray on her sides.

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## dkatz4

Awesome snake! Can't wait to have an SD some day. Incidentally, there is a great way to get a very accurate measurement.  I post this all the time, but have to credit Sauzo with showing it to me
http://serpwidgets.com/main/measure
just take a picture from above (so that perspective doesn't distort the size) with something of a known length in the frame, a book or something, and it determines the snakes length.

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## jmcrook

Thanks y'all! Yeah I've used serp widget before with my BP but I can usually get a decent measurement of the retic along the back of the couch. Not sure if she'd stay still long enough to get an overhead photo. Quite the squirrelly critter she is


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## Yodawagon

> Latest photo of Phyllis. Took a huge pee/poop right after this so I was able to get an empty weight on her. 624grams now and between 4-4.5 feet long. Hard to believe this is the same little noodle that was as big around as my pinky and 56grams only 6 1/2 months ago. (Picture below)
> 
> Definitely packing on the size. Also has a small dry spot on the top of her head the last month or so that goes away after a shed but eventually comes back. Anyone have any thoughts on that? Just a few scales and doesn't seem to affect her in any way, just a slight concern to me. 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 My girl gets that dry patch before shedding sometimes too.

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_jmcrook_ (09-02-2016)

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## jmcrook

> My girl gets that dry patch before shedding sometimes too.


In the same spot? My girl has only gotten it since mid/late June or so. Basically disappears after a shed and then slowly comes back. She's in shed right now so I'll see what it looks like in 3-4 days


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## Yodawagon

> In the same spot? My girl has only gotten it since mid/late June or so. Basically disappears after a shed and then slowly comes back. She's in shed right now so I'll see what it looks like in 3-4 days
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Basically the same here. Doesn't happen every shed.

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## jmcrook

Fresh coat of paint on Phyllis just now! Quickly went for her customary post shed bath. Here's a pic of her 6 months and one day ago on the same bowl the day I got her

Grow little noodle grow!


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## Yodawagon

Do you know her hatch date?

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## jmcrook

I know they started pipping on February 11 and we're all out by February 14. Not sure the exact day she came out though 


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## Yodawagon

Just weighed mine. 695g .

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_jmcrook_ (09-08-2016)

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## jmcrook

Mine just weighed in at 640 and measures 4'3"


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## Yodawagon

Haven't got a real measurement, but we figure about 4'8".

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## jmcrook

Finally got tagged by Phyllis. Felt like a bump against my elbow more than anything. She was being a bit twitchy when I went to get her out and should have read her body language but nevertheless... I know now when she's telling me to bug off and she hopefully learn that a tag on the elbow won't stop me from cleaning her cage. 


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_MR Snakes_ (12-12-2018)

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## jmcrook

Latest update on Phyllis. Just shed last night and looking great even though she's not real fired up at the moment. 
Got a serp widgets measurement on her just now and she's at about 4' 10". 

Also made an epic bm and weighed in at 804 grams empty. I feel like she must have more rat left to pass because she weighed about 670 two feedings ago. Find it hard to believe she put on 134 grams in two weeks. 
Such a fun and curious snake. Keeps me on my toes in a very rewarding way and I love it.


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Gio (10-02-2016),_Kam_ (06-27-2018),_MR Snakes_ (12-12-2018)

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## Gio

> Latest update on Phyllis. Just shed last night and looking great even though she's not real fired up at the moment. 
> Got a serp widgets measurement on her just now and she's at about 4' 10". 
> 
> Also made an epic bm and weighed in at 804 grams empty. I feel like she must have more rat left to pass because she weighed about 670 two feedings ago. Find it hard to believe she put on 134 grams in two weeks. 
> Such a fun and curious snake. Keeps me on my toes in a very rewarding way and I love it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's good stuff!

Thanks for the update. I'm going to read up a bit more on this thread when I have time.  Nice slow grower you have there and beautiful pattern to boot.

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_jmcrook_ (10-02-2016)

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## jmcrook

> That's good stuff!
> 
> Thanks for the update. I'm going to read up a bit more on this thread when I have time.  Nice slow grower you have there and beautiful pattern to boot.


Thanks, Gio! I'm awfully proud of her I must say. Seems to just get better and better every day. She's actually grown like a weed so far. She's 8 months old in about a week and has grown almost 3 feet since March 4th when I got her. Still tiny for a retic though which is what I was looking for. I'm expecting around 6-7' (parents were 5' dad 6' mom, WC Kalatoa imports) but at this rate I am prepared for 8' or more if she gets there.


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Gio (10-11-2016)

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## RamMac

Are there any Pure Kalatoa breeders left? Every search I do online seems to come up empty and most of the breeders recommended here in older threads seem to no longer be in business or their websites are no longer active. I am on the fence between a SD/Dwarf cross from Vital, or getting an actual pure Kalatoa. Any recent buyers? Where did you purchase your SD from?

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## jmcrook

> Are there any Pure Kalatoa breeders left? Every search I do online seems to come up empty and most of the breeders recommended here in older threads seem to no longer be in business or their websites are no longer active. I am on the fence between a SD/Dwarf cross from Vital, or getting an actual pure Kalatoa. Any recent buyers? Where did you purchase your SD from?


I got mine from Daniel Solis/reptile avenue. He posted the clutch on Instagram last February and I just happened to come across it the day they started hatching and got first pick of them all. I've heard great things about vital but the % of mainland blood in them makes me wonder if they could possibly get bigger than 8-9' with heavy feeding. There is a distant possibility that a buddy of mine may breed one of his SD tigers to my Kalatoa when they're both up to size but that's a few years down the road if at all. Pure Kalatoa is hard to get your hands on for sure, 
But they're out there if you do a hard search. Good luck and let me know if you strike gold! Cheers!


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## RamMac

> I got mine from Daniel Solis/reptile avenue. He posted the clutch on Instagram last February and I just happened to come across it the day they started hatching and got first pick of them all. I've heard great things about vital but the % of mainland blood in them makes me wonder if they could possibly get bigger than 8-9' with heavy feeding. There is a distant possibility that a buddy of mine may breed one of his SD tigers to my Kalatoa when they're both up to size but that's a few years down the road if at all. Pure Kalatoa is hard to get your hands on for sure, 
> But they're out there if you do a hard search. Good luck and let me know if you strike gold! Cheers!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think I'm done searching for pure Kalatoas for now. It's very frustrating. I'll be attending the NARBC in Tinley this Saturday and depending on what I see there I might come home empty handed and purchase that SD/Dwarf tiger from Vital. I'm stuck between a Carpet or Retic although leaning more towards the retics. Unless I see an absolutely stunning Carpet this weekend I'll be getting the SD/Dwarf. Thanks for the reply though.

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## Sauzo

> I think I'm done searching for pure Kalatoas for now. It's very frustrating. I'll be attending the NARBC in Tinley this Saturday and depending on what I see there I might come home empty handed and purchase that SD/Dwarf tiger from Vital. I'm stuck between a Carpet or Retic although leaning more towards the retics. Unless I see an absolutely stunning Carpet this weekend I'll be getting the SD/Dwarf. Thanks for the reply though.


I just ordered my SD/D White Albino Tiger from Vital Exotics. He should be here tomorrow. Nice looking Kalatoa. I thought about one when I first saw this thread but after looking for a couple days, I too gave up on it lol. Plus I've always been kind of a morph guy. I've given up trying to fight that too lol.

If you are bent on one though, I bet you could find something on one of the Retic FB pages. I see lots of stuff for sale there on the Super Dwarf and Dwarf Retic page.

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## RamMac

> I just ordered my SD/D White Albino Tiger from Vital Exotics. He should be here tomorrow. Nice looking Kalatoa. I thought about one when I first saw this thread but after looking for a couple days, I too gave up on it lol. Plus I've always been kind of a morph guy. I've given up trying to fight that too lol.
> 
> If you are bent on one though, I bet you could find something on one of the Retic FB pages. I see lots of stuff for sale there on the Super Dwarf and Dwarf Retic page.


I'm still waiting on approval for the retic FB page. I managed to get accepted to a retic FB page in the UK  :ROFL: .
I do love the morphs more as well, especially retics. Retics have, in my opinion the best morphs out there even better than BPs. I might just get that SD/Dwarf tiger from Vital.

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_jmcrook_ (10-11-2016)

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## jmcrook

> I think I'm done searching for pure Kalatoas for now. It's very frustrating. I'll be attending the NARBC in Tinley this Saturday and depending on what I see there I might come home empty handed and purchase that SD/Dwarf tiger from Vital. I'm stuck between a Carpet or Retic although leaning more towards the retics. Unless I see an absolutely stunning Carpet this weekend I'll be getting the SD/Dwarf. Thanks for the reply though.


Yeah they're tough to find. I had been thinking about one for a couple years and then just happened to be looking in the right place at the right time. Those SD/Dwarf albinos and tigers from vital are some good looking critters though. Supposedly the males are imagined to top out at 5-7'


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RamMac (10-11-2016)

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## RamMac

> Yeah they're tough to find. I had been thinking about one for a couple years and then just happened to be looking in the right place at the right time. Those SD/Dwarf albinos and tigers from vital are some good looking critters though. Supposedly the males are imagined to top out at 5-7'
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah, Kris from Vital said they're expected tp stay between 5'-7', and although I don't think he's lying, I just don't think anything can be assured with having dwarf and Mainland blood. I believe he said the dad was in the 5' range and mom in the 8' range.

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_jmcrook_ (10-11-2016)

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## jmcrook

> Yeah, Kris from Vital said they're expected tp stay between 5'-7', and although I don't think he's lying, I just don't think anything can be assured with having dwarf and Mainland blood. I believe he said the dad was in the 5' range and mom in the 8' range.


I know what you mean. Mines parents were 5' dad 6' mom and my girl is already about 5' and just turned 8 months today. I think she's either going to hit 6-7' and then add some girth or she may breach 8'. Still a tiny retic though. 


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## RamMac

> I know what you mean. Mines parents were 5' dad 6' mom and my girl is already about 5' and just turned 8 months today. I think she's either going to hit 6-7' and then add some girth or she may breach 8'. Still a tiny retic though. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm not as concerned with the length as I am with ending up with a 11'-12'+ snake with a lot of girth. With that being said, I am comfortable with a retic in the 9'-10' range 9again given it stays relatively thin).

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## jmcrook

> I'm not as concerned with the length as I am with ending up with a 11'-12'+ snake with a lot of girth. With that being said, I am comfortable with a retic in the 9'-10' range 9again given it stays relatively thin).


Exactly. Mine is basically the build of a wiley corn snake with slightly more dangerous teeth. SD are supposed to be a bit more lean than mainland retics even at their adult size. She's definitely a handful even at this size. Get yourself a good hook and long feeding tongs if you take the plunge  :Wink: 


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_MR Snakes_ (12-12-2018),RamMac (10-11-2016)

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## RamMac

> Exactly. Mine is basically the build of a wiley corn snake with slightly more dangerous teeth. SD are supposed to be a bit more lean than mainland retics even at their adult size. She's definitely a handful even at this size. Get yourself a good hook and long feeding tongs if you take the plunge 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Al ready have both. :Good Job:

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## Sauzo

Well females are the ones with girth. So just get a male. From what I've gathered, if you feed them normally, then you should end up in the target area you want. Maybe Cody will chime in here or check youtube for reptileexperts videos. He gives good advice on what to expect etc etc. While there is no guarantee on the size of any snake, by feeding normally and starting with a high % of SD blood, you will at least have a better chance of a smaller snake. 

Kris told me the parents for my guy were 5' dad and 8-9' mom. So my guy should top out around 5-7' with normal feedings. And again, no one can guarantee any size but you can get a general idea. Just have to be prepared for something bigger lol. That's why I went with a male myself. All my reptiles are females and while I did want a female SD/D retic, I didn't want to chance it so I got the male.

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## RamMac

> Well females are the ones with girth. So just get a male. From what I've gathered, if you feed them normally, then you should end up in the target area you want. Maybe Cody will chime in here or check youtube for reptileexperts videos. He gives good advice on what to expect etc etc. While there is no guarantee on the size of any snake, by feeding normally and starting with a high % of SD blood, you will at least have a better chance of a smaller snake. 
> 
> Kris told me the parents for my guy were 5' dad and 8-9' mom. So my guy should top out around 5-7' with normal feedings. And again, no one can guarantee any size but you can get a general idea. Just have to be prepared for something bigger lol. That's why I went with a male myself. All my reptiles are females and while I did want a female SD/D retic, I didn't want to chance it so I got the male.


I checked with Cody and his opinion was that it should stay under my limit. I've seen his videos as well. There's a video he uploaded (second one I think) where he shows off an older SD\Dwarf tiger retic that seems large around 10'-11' feet, that size is possibly larger than I'd like but it's hard to really tell from the video.

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## Sauzo

Also so you cant go wrong with a carpet either. I got a yearling female jungle carpet from Nick Mutton and while she was a terror when I got her, she has mellowed out a ton in the past month. Although at night, she patrols the cage top to bottom lol and tried to strike a white paper towel I was using to scoop up a poopie lol. She is so full of personality lol. Loves to perch on my shoulders and just look at stuff. She did try and bite the tv though lol. I'm lucky in that I got both and while I love boas, the jungle carpet is giving them a run for their money lol. We'll see where the retic places in my list soon enough  :Smile:

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RamMac (10-11-2016)

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## RamMac

> Also so you cant go wrong with a carpet either. I got a yearling female jungle carpet from Nick Mutton and while she was a terror when I got her, she has mellowed out a ton in the past month. Although at night, she patrols the cage top to bottom lol and tried to strike a white paper towel I was using to scoop up a poopie lol. She is so full of personality lol. Loves to perch on my shoulders and just look at stuff. She did try and bite the tv though lol. I'm lucky in that I got both and while I love boas, the jungle carpet is giving them a run for their money lol. We'll see where the retic places in my list soon enough


I would love a high yellow JCP. If I see one in Tinley I might go for it. Both have been on my list. The retics however, something about them just makes them so appealing.

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## Sauzo

> I checked with Cody and his opinion was that it should stay under my limit. I've seen his videos as well. There's a video he uploaded (second one I think) where he shows off an older SD\Dwarf tiger retic that seems large around 10'-11' feet, that size is possibly larger than I'd like but it's hard to really tell from the video.


Well I remember right, Cody said the dwarf blood can still produce sizeable animals. Probably the only way to really come as close as possible to a guarantee if a smaller animal is go pure SD male and feed conservatively. I'm not too concerned personally as long as my retic doesn't end up being 15'+ and have a bad attitude. I got a 6-7' female boa that is thicker than a pop can and she is a giant puppy, a heavy puppy but I can reach in and grab her or do anything and she doesn't even care. I even grab her face and wipe it down with wet paper towels when she decides to body/face paint her cage with poop or urate lol. For me, I'm more afraid of the snake with an unpredictable personality than a large snake with a laid back personality.

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## Sauzo

> I would love a high yellow JCP. If I see one in Tinley I might go for it. Both have been on my list. The retics however, something about them just makes them so appealing.


Lol do what I did and get both haha.

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_jmcrook_ (10-11-2016),RamMac (10-11-2016)

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## RamMac

> Lol do what I did and get both haha.


If I got the Carpet this weekend the retic would still definitely be on my list, it would just wait a couple of months.  :Very Happy:

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_jmcrook_ (10-11-2016),_Sauzo_ (10-11-2016)

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## jmcrook

An idea of what to expect when trying to photograph a squirrelly 5' SD by yourself. So much personality and activity and I don't think I'd trade her for the world. You two are both in for a treat. Even at 5' she's got the looks and personality of a true retic but with the physique of a corn snake or similar colubrid. Faster more calculating movements though. They really do look you in the eyes when you work with them. Super interactive 


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_Reinz_ (10-12-2016),_Sauzo_ (10-12-2016)

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## jmcrook

> Well I remember right, Cody said the dwarf blood can still produce sizeable animals. Probably the only way to really come as close as possible to a guarantee if a smaller animal is go pure SD male and feed conservatively. I'm not too concerned personally as long as my retic doesn't end up being 15'+ and have a bad attitude. I got a 6-7' female boa that is thicker than a pop can and she is a giant puppy, a heavy puppy but I can reach in and grab her or do anything and she doesn't even care. I even grab her face and wipe it down with wet paper towels when she decides to body/face paint her cage with poop or urate lol. For me, I'm more afraid of the snake with an unpredictable personality than a large snake with a laid back personality.


Your retic will be definitely faster but still predictable to a certain extent once you learn to read it's body language. Mine is very fast and sometimes a bit flighty getting her out but she's not shy to let me know if she's in a foul mood. Only been tagged once (see previous posts) but even then she was trying to tell me she wasn't feeling it that day. Too bad for her I had to clean her cage and I'm not about to let her wallow in her own waste haha



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Gio (10-11-2016)

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## Gio

I've heard retics will give a number of indicators that they are not into you before they bite. At least in general.

My boa is great, but boas are very different and don't let on as well IMO when they are going to snap. 

They are very stealthy and of all of my snakes, I'm still most cautious with the BC. 

My carpet on the other hand is like a person. "Oh HI,,,,, shall I come out and have a spin around?"

She's great and I have done things that should cause her to bite and she just won't.

My new retic and I are still learning each other.

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_jmcrook_ (10-11-2016)

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## Sauzo

> I've heard retics will give a number of indicators that they are not into you before they bite. At least in general.
> 
> My boa is great, but boas are very different and don't let on as well IMO when they are going to snap. 
> 
> They are very stealthy and of all of my snakes, I'm still most cautious with the BC. 
> 
> My carpet on the other hand is like a person. "Oh HI,,,,, shall I come out and have a spin around?"
> 
> She's great and I have done things that should cause her to bite and she just won't.
> ...


Haha see it's opposite with me. Both my boas wouldn't bite me unless I actually hurt them. Even when they are cranky, they don't hiss or anything, just go inside their hide and sit in there lol. The JCP is different. If she is cranky, she will hiss loud and she does look me in the face which sometimes makes me feel awkward lol. I give the JCP respect but my boas are like my kids where I can pick them up, toss them around and grab them however and they just sit there and take it. From my snakes, it seems my pythons have moods where as the boas are pretty much even keeled and up for whatever. So, i'm figuring i'll be treating the retic the same as I do my carpet. Nice and slow and not grab them or sling them over my shoulder and go outside and do whatever like I do with the boas. Heck, sometimes late at night, ill hop in bed, turn on the tv and let a boa hang out with me. The JCP really only seems to like to sit on my shoulders and watch stuff, not much into relaxing on the bed and watching tv lol.

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_jmcrook_ (10-12-2016)

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## Gio

> Haha see it's opposite with me. Both my boas wouldn't bite me unless I actually hurt them. Even when they are cranky, they don't hiss or anything, just go inside their hide and sit in there lol. The JCP is different. If she is cranky, she will hiss loud and she does look me in the face which sometimes makes me feel awkward lol. I give the JCP respect but my boas are like my kids where I can pick them up, toss them around and grab them however and they just sit there and take it. From my snakes, it seems my pythons have moods where as the boas are pretty much even keeled and up for whatever. So, i'm figuring i'll be treating the retic the same as I do my carpet. Nice and slow and not grab them or sling them over my shoulder and go outside and do whatever like I do with the boas. Heck, sometimes late at night, ill hop in bed, turn on the tv and let a boa hang out with me. The JCP really only seems to like to sit on my shoulders and watch stuff, not much into relaxing on the bed and watching tv lol.


But that's my point. You are going to get indications from a snake like a retic as they are seemingly more aware and interactive. I certainly don't expect my boa to bite but he is not one to offer a lot of "signs". He tends to hang out in the S posture and if he wanted to bite I would not know it until afterwards. Out of the cage he is curious and relaxed. In cage, he is much harder to read IMO but has never shown defensive behavior he just stares and I always wonder. 

I am just prepared which is better than being caught completely off guard when I go into his cage. I still use a hook but don't get me wrong I've only had 1 bite from him early on. It's a lot easier to know a bite is coming when they tell you it's coming. That was my point I think

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## jmcrook

> Haha see it's opposite with me. Both my boas wouldn't bite me unless I actually hurt them. Even when they are cranky, they don't hiss or anything, just go inside their hide and sit in there lol. The JCP is different. If she is cranky, she will hiss loud and she does look me in the face which sometimes makes me feel awkward lol. I give the JCP respect but my boas are like my kids where I can pick them up, toss them around and grab them however and they just sit there and take it. From my snakes, it seems my pythons have moods where as the boas are pretty much even keeled and up for whatever. So, i'm figuring i'll be treating the retic the same as I do my carpet. Nice and slow and not grab them or sling them over my shoulder and go outside and do whatever like I do with the boas. Heck, sometimes late at night, ill hop in bed, turn on the tv and let a boa hang out with me. The JCP really only seems to like to sit on my shoulders and watch stuff, not much into relaxing on the bed and watching tv lol.


My retic definitely needs a slow, respectful approach or she gets jumpy and twitchy. Hook training from day one has for sure been of great help in tapping her out of feeding mode when needed for cleaning and water changes. But once she's out, she's perfectly fine. Never sits still but just very curious about every bit of her surroundings. Very inquisitive little thing 



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Gio (10-12-2016)

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## Fraido

> ...never shown defensive behavior he just stares and I always wonder...


Honestly I don't reach into any enclosure, ever.. aside from ball pythons in a rack. Like, I don't even reach into a corn snake's enclosure. Lol 

Maybe I just suck at noticing the signs, but every bigger snake (aside from the real giants) that I've had to work with seem to just suddenly lunge into motion if they're going to bite. It's like they're just staring, no posture or anthing, and I just won't reach in there, I just always wonder. I've seen enough snakes fly back when they're looking away to not want to grab them even when they aren't even looking at me.

I had a woma slowly come out of its bin once, I had my foot up on the bin as I was standing there talking to someone, he came up ever so slowly, rested his nose on my knee, and then just opened up! LOL

Love snakes, hate their teeth!

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Eavlynn (10-12-2016),Gio (10-12-2016),_jmcrook_ (10-12-2016)

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## Sauzo

Yeah, see I reach into all my cages and just grab my snakes. Never been bit by any of them for that. The only snake I don't reach in over the top of the snake and just grab them is my JCP. Maybe after a couple years I can do that with her as well but right now, no way. I reach in but from the front and then just scoot my hand under her body and she climbs up my arm. So I guess in a way I do reach in still but not as arrogantly with her lol. I'll probably invest in a hook with the retic but we'll see. I'm probably crazy but I have never used hooks before.

And lol yeah Gio, my sunglow is great for just staring at out the front of the cage haha. When I open the door and stick my hand in, she perks up and does fast tongue flicks and when its not a rat and just my hand, you can almost see the disappointment in her as she lays back down haha. I'm pretty numb to getting bit now as when I got the JCP, she bit me probably about 6-7 times before she finally calmed down lol. I pretty much got used to her biting me when I got her, I just put my hand in there and formed a fist and let her go for it. She finally got bored of it and learned my hand wasn't going to eat her. Then it went to head butts, then mock lunges and now she just sniffs it when I shove my hand in her face but I do it slowly. I bet she would either bit or turn around quick if I rushed my hand in on her.

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Gio (10-12-2016)

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## Gio

> Yeah, see I reach into all my cages and just grab my snakes. Never been bit by any of them for that. The only snake I don't reach in over the top of the snake and just grab them is my JCP. Maybe after a couple years I can do that with her as well but right now, no way. I reach in but from the front and then just scoot my hand under her body and she climbs up my arm. So I guess in a way I do reach in still but not as arrogantly with her lol. I'll probably invest in a hook with the retic but we'll see. I'm probably crazy but I have never used hooks before.
> 
> And lol yeah Gio, my sunglow is great for just staring at out the front of the cage haha. When I open the door and stick my hand in, she perks up and does fast tongue flicks and when its not a rat and just my hand, you can almost see the disappointment in her as she lays back down haha. I'm pretty numb to getting bit now as when I got the JCP, she bit me probably about 6-7 times before she finally calmed down lol. I pretty much got used to her biting me when I got her, I just put my hand in there and formed a fist and let her go for it. She finally got bored of it and learned my hand wasn't going to eat her. Then it went to head butts, then mock lunges and now she just sniffs it when I shove my hand in her face but I do it slowly. I bet she would either bit or turn around quick if I rushed my hand in on her.


Today is the day!!??

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_jmcrook_ (10-12-2016)

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## Sauzo

> Today is the day!!??


Today is the day!

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_jmcrook_ (10-12-2016)

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## Gio

jmcrook,

Since we've all stolen a bit of thunder from your thread how about a few more pictures of your girl when you have time?

Thanks for letting us all chime in and go off course a bit. It's all for the love of little retics.

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_jmcrook_ (10-12-2016)

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## jmcrook

> jmcrook,
> 
> Since we've all stolen a bit of thunder from your thread how about a few more pictures of your girl when you have time?
> 
> Thanks for letting us all chime in and go off course a bit. It's all for the love of little retics.


Gio,
No worries at all! Happy to have a thread for all of us tiny tic keepers to continue conversations. I hope we keep it up. Tonight is feeding night so I'll try to get some pics of the feast to share with everyone. Had a great handling session with her last night, very calm, not twitchy or jumpy at all getting her out, but still very curious and active. Such an amazing species 


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Gio (10-12-2016)

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## jmcrook

ADHD with a rat all wrapped up, business as usual haha


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Gio (10-13-2016)

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## jmcrook

And then she goes for her standard post meal dip in the pool. About time for a bigger water bowl... barely fits half or more of herself in it anymore. So hard to get good photos through the glare on the cage. "Human! Bring more rats to this apartment at once!" Haha


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Gio (10-13-2016),_MR Snakes_ (12-12-2018)

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## Gio

She looks great. I love the pattern.

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_jmcrook_ (10-13-2016)

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## jmcrook

Basking under her RHP this morning. Been very active recently and did a good job of tossing her cage about last night. My guess is that she is speaking out about having smaller rats her last two feedings. 50g rats the last two weeks and she has taken 80-90 gram rats the two weeks before that. I trimmed her intake back slightly as she has been growing like a weed and don't want to power feed her and promote obesity but she will start to push at the cage corners if she gets too hangry. I'm giving her another 50g rat Wednesday and we'll see how the next week goes, any pushing or if she stays calm. At her growth rate she seems she will be a fairly impressive sized Kalatoa SD. She could hit 6-7 feet and start thickening up a bit or she could very well end up 9 feet. She's definitely not going to be a giant but a 7, 8, 9 foot snake isn't what I'd consider small either. I'm guessing 6' by her first b-day but we'll see...


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_MR Snakes_ (12-12-2018)

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## Sauzo

Nice looking gal there. I got that same xtra large water bowls for my big boa and the retic.

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_jmcrook_ (10-18-2016)

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## jmcrook

Thanks Sauzo. That's actually the medium exo terra bowl I think. I'll probably get something less expensive for her next bowl because she'll surely be too big for it within a couple months. I like the exo terra bowls but not cheap upgrading sizes when you've got a snake that grows this much. They're very spill proof though which is really nice when you've got a reticulated honey badger using it 


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_Sauzo_ (10-18-2016)

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## jmcrook

Poor girl got her first face rubbing abrasions... not too bad but obviously not a good development. Going to up her food intake, either larger prey or smaller more frequently and hope she stops pushing as much. Been a real sweetheart the last few times I've had her out though. Hopefully the rubs go away with her next shed.


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_MR Snakes_ (12-12-2018)

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## Sauzo

Aww poor girl. How the heck did she get a puncture under her chin in an AP cage? They are all smooth which is the reason I love them. And guess I can count my blessing right now as my boy in shed so he is quiet now. Last night he curled up pretty much in my armpit while I laid there watching tv lol. And today he curled up between my arm and my stomach while watching tv. He is such a mellow man...for right now lol. I'm sure after shed he will turn into an eating monster again. Anyways, I put a little polysporin on that just in case.

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_jmcrook_ (10-21-2016)

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## jmcrook

> Aww poor girl. How the heck did she get a puncture under her chin in an AP cage? They are all smooth which is the reason I love them. And guess I can count my blessing right now as my boy in shed so he is quiet now. Last night he curled up pretty much in my armpit while I laid there watching tv lol. And today he curled up between my arm and my stomach while watching tv. He is such a mellow man...for right now lol. I'm sure after shed he will turn into an eating monster again. Anyways, I put a little polysporin on that just in case.


Not really sure how she managed that. When she pushes she's pretty assertive about it though. More of a scrape than a puncture. I imagine putting anything on her facial area is going to be quite the rodeo haha! Polysporin/neosporin you think? I had read somewhere on here to use betadine but I thought I'd keep an eye on it for a day or two and see how it looks before I stress her out trying to restrain her head to apply ointments. Already a bit better than yesterday, but she also just fed so that may have calmed her down a little with the pushing. She sometimes smashes her face in between the glass and the lip along the floor of the cage which is one of my first guesses as to how she got those abrasions.

That mainland blood must be keeping yours a bit more chill. My girl never sits still. Getting a non blurry photo of her is a pretty significant accomplishment. 

Edit: managed to get some polysporin on those scrapes with a q-tip and minimal stress or struggle. Gonna keep an eye on it 


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## Sauzo

Nice. Ah yeah that makes sense. My gals try and wedge their heads between the gap on the front too sometimes lol. Yeah polysporin, just once though as it doesn't look bad, just a one time application for precaution. And yeah that might be true about the mainland blood. My guy is pretty laid back but he's also in shed. Before shed, he would cruise around the cage at night but most of the time he liked to perch on the shelf in his cage and just look out the front lol. He also likes to sit with his face perched on the water dish and last night he dropped a nice urate in the water dish lol.

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_jmcrook_ (10-21-2016)

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## Gio

So far so good here with the 18% mainland in mine. I've only had 1 day of real defensiveness. I was handling too early after feeding. My guy does settle but moves quite a bit when out. I had a great session 2 nights ago. In the cage he actually enjoys his hides which is OK. A 40 gallon Critter Cage is the upper size limit for him right now. 

I'm sure your SD girl is a little more busy, but then again as a species these are very different snakes from the boas and other pythons I've had. They are almost like a big colubrid. 

I'm sure you'll get her healed up fast. Pushing is a pain in the butt, ALL of my snakes sans the royal and little retic are doing it right now.

Winter temp drop for the boa is coming soon.

Does your girl have some climbing options? Maybe revamping the cage will throw her a curve and keep the pushing down, at least for a while.

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_jmcrook_ (10-22-2016)

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## jmcrook

I recently expanded her from half of a divided T8 into the full cage with bigger branches to climb around on and she totally tossed the entire space the first couple nights. She's calmed down a little bit she's been in the full enclosure for about a month now. She probably will need a larger space eventually as she seems that she'll reach the larger end of the SD spectrum. Maybe a 4x2x1.5 or 4x2x2 when she's grown up.


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## jmcrook

Recent portrait of Phyllis that is started working on last night. This is the preliminary sketch for a more technically involved copper etched/engraved limited edition print I'm getting started this week (I'm an artist and teach printmaking at the University of Missouri-Columbia) I'll post in the for sale forum once it's done, and will be donating at least half of the proceeds to USARK once I get an idea if anyone/how many folks may or may not be interested and I can get an idea of how large of an edition to print. Please keep sales discussions to PM it until I post it in the appropriate forum. Thanks!


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AlyssaLu (10-25-2016),_Fraido_ (10-25-2016),Gio (10-28-2016),_MR Snakes_ (12-13-2018),_RickyNY_ (05-06-2018)

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## Sauzo

Nice drawing and i'm sure Gio and I will be paying the price later when our guys want women. Ours will probably be tearing apart the cages where as your girl will be nice and calm lol.

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Gio (10-28-2016),_jmcrook_ (10-25-2016)

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## jmcrook

> Nice drawing and i'm sure Gio and I will be paying the price later when our guys want women. Ours will probably be tearing apart the cages where as your girl will be nice and calm lol.


Thanks Sauzo! Hard to tell at the moment but you and Gio's guys may be calmer given the larger % mainland blood and deeper generations in captivity. My girl's parents were WC imports from Kalatoa so Phyllis is a 1st gen captive bred. Definitely got some of the wild side in her hahaa. I'll post pics of the progress on the copper etching plate and respective prints as they develop in the near future. Anything to help protect the right to keep such an amazing species of snake!


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_Sauzo_ (10-25-2016)

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## Yodawagon

> Basking under her RHP this morning. Been very active recently and did a good job of tossing her cage about last night. My guess is that she is speaking out about having smaller rats her last two feedings. 50g rats the last two weeks and she has taken 80-90 gram rats the two weeks before that. I trimmed her intake back slightly as she has been growing like a weed and don't want to power feed her and promote obesity but she will start to push at the cage corners if she gets too hangry. I'm giving her another 50g rat Wednesday and we'll see how the next week goes, any pushing or if she stays calm. At her growth rate she seems she will be a fairly impressive sized Kalatoa SD. She could hit 6-7 feet and start thickening up a bit or she could very well end up 9 feet. She's definitely not going to be a giant but a 7, 8, 9 foot snake isn't what I'd consider small either. I'm guessing 6' by her first b-day but we'll see...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Mines about the same size. The parents were 6 feet, but were wild caught.  Glad to see mine isn't the only crazy growing super dwarf out there. I'd be happy if she stopped at 8, but we will see.

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Gio (10-28-2016),_jmcrook_ (10-28-2016)

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## jmcrook

> Mines about the same size. The parents were 6 feet, but were wild caught.  Glad to see mine isn't the only crazy growing super dwarf out there. I'd be happy if she stopped at 8, but we will see.


Yeah dad was 5' mom was 6', I think imported in 2013? Likewise, 8' for our girls would be nice but I won't be surprised if either of them reach 9' at this rate


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## Gio

> Yeah dad was 5' mom was 6', I think imported in 2013? Likewise, 8' for our girls would be nice but I won't be surprised if either of them reach 9' at this rate
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Mine is calm like Sauzo's, but he will be 4 feet long in no time. I'm considering a 10 day schedule. He is NOT hungry all of the time so I'm going to spread things out a bit. 

I plan on providing a 6 foot by 30 inch by 24 to 30 inch cage for his final home. I'm fully expecting a 10 foot snake which is nothing looking at my 7 foot carpet as long as the girth stays along the lines of my boa.

You are right though, I have 18% mainland in my guy and have also heard more than a few people say tigers tend to be VERY calm.

That probably helps. Sauzo and I have young animals too so I'm sure they are still settling in.

Your girl is beautiful and probably just needs some room to romp. Maybe add some perches and other items in the cage to stimulate her a bit.

Or drop the temps a tad and see if that helps.

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_jmcrook_ (10-28-2016)

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## Sauzo

Lol i'm not going to sugarcoat it, my little man is flat out lazy  :Razz:  Unless there is a mouse or rat involved in the deal, he is happy to just lounge it. I've been feeding him every 4-5 days and he is more than happy with the schedule lol. My avatar is him after I lifted his hide and put a camera in front of his face. His head was shoved in the little hole to the right of him. He popped his head out and posed for the camera lol.

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## jmcrook

> Lol i'm not going to sugarcoat it, my little man is flat out lazy  Unless there is a mouse or rat involved in the deal, he is happy to just lounge it. I've been feeding him every 4-5 days and he is more than happy with the schedule lol. My avatar is him after I lifted his hide and put a camera in front of his face. His head was shoved in the little hole to the right of him. He popped his head out and posed for the camera lol.


lol I need to keep my gal in a food coma apparently. I just don't want her to get too big too fast and inadvertently reduce her lifespan. As soon as she feels any activity at the door of her cage she's there to check it out before I can finish unlocking it. Definitely going to be getting bigger prey, and more frequently. She's still very trim and muscular, just has a crazy metabolism. She passes a small rat in like 4 days and it's a tiny poop and a couple small urates. 

Gio, she's got a big grapevine/driftwood to climb on and two hides but yeah, she's definitely going to need more space eventually. It's also been unseasonably warm here recently so her ambient temps have been higher and could likely be influencing her increased activity along with her just always being hungry. I'll keep you all up to date with how things progress in the upcoming weeks. Cheers!


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## Sauzo

Well I feed Caesar smaller meals on a faster schedule, so really it boils down to the same amount of food as if I did a weanling or small rat weekly. I just feed him a couple adult mice. Seems they leave a smaller but still noticeable lump and pretty much seem to keep him calm. Of course he is also still a baby. He's only 5 months old. I'll probably cut his food intake down once he hits 1 year old. He spends a lot of his time in one of his hides unless I got him out on me or he is out drinking water. he wandered around a couple days when I first got him but since then, it seems he has settled in and loves his RBI hides lol. As for poop, Caesar drops monster deuces lol, probably 2.5-3" long ones. He's a poo machine haha.

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_jmcrook_ (10-29-2016)

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## jmcrook

> Well I feed Caesar smaller meals on a faster schedule, so really it boils down to the same amount of food as if I did a weanling or small rat weekly. I just feed him a couple adult mice. Seems they leave a smaller but still noticeable lump and pretty much seem to keep him calm. Of course he is also still a baby. He's only 5 months old. I'll probably cut his food intake down once he hits 1 year old. He spends a lot of his time in one of his hides unless I got him out on me or he is out drinking water. he wandered around a couple days when I first got him but since then, it seems he has settled in and loves his RBI hides lol. As for poop, Caesar drops monster deuces lol, probably 2.5-3" long ones. He's a poo machine haha.


at 5 months Phyllis was getting two mice every 4-5 days, then I bumped her up to small rats every 5-7 and was "Queen Phyllis, full of piss" because she's peed on/around me so many times lol. Also dropped huge poos but the last 3 weeks she's had smaller sized small rats and smaller bathroom breaks because my rat guy only had small smalls and big mediums. I really think getting her on medium rats every 5-7 days is going to chill her out a good deal. I've got the gap in the door filled with a strip of foam core for the time being so she can't jam her head in there and it seems to be helping along with the 100 gram rat she pounded last night.

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## Sauzo

Yeah, see that's where Caesar is now, 5 months old and eating 2 adult mice every 4-5 days. And yeah he pisses all over but thank god its all in his cage. i just check for piss everyday. I still have been lucky with the Retic sausage butt roulette. I haven't been hosed down yet. And yeah the influx of food should help...or it might make her grow really fast and really huge and then you will have a huge antsy retic who will spray pee and poo all over you everytime you take her out. Keep us updated so i know what not to do  :Very Happy:

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_jmcrook_ (10-29-2016)

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## Yodawagon

I think some of them just have a crazy strong feeding response. My girl could eat every day 5 at a time if I let her.

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_jmcrook_ (10-29-2016)

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## jmcrook

> I think some of them just have a crazy strong feeding response. My girl could eat every day 5 at a time if I let her.


Mine would totally do the same. Have any recent pics of your SD gal to share, yodawagon? It's cool to see pics of clutch mates when you know who has one


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## Zincubus

> Mine would totally do the same. Have any recent pics of your SD gal to share, yodawagon? It's cool to see pics of clutch mates when you know who has one
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'll try and upload three pictures of my baby Purple Albino ... there's been some crazy changes over the last few months    


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_jmcrook_ (10-29-2016),_MR Snakes_ (12-13-2018),o.r hill (10-30-2016)

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## Zincubus

Oh and his dad  :Smile:

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_MR Snakes_ (12-13-2018)

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## jmcrook

> I'll try and upload three pictures of my baby Purple Albino ... there's been some crazy changes over the last few months    
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


Beautiful critter! SD/Dwarf or mainland?


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## Zincubus

> Beautiful critter! SD/Dwarf or mainland?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


SD ... One of the final pieces of my snakes jigsaw  :Smile: 


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_jmcrook_ (10-29-2016)

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## Zincubus

Just received my new baby Super Dwarf Purple Albino Retic from WildSide via ColdBlooded couriers .  He was in fabulous condition plus lovely and warm  :Smile: 

He looks to be just going into shed so I'll leave him to settle in for while ..




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_jmcrook_ (11-05-2016),_MR Snakes_ (12-13-2018)

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## jmcrook

> Just received my new baby Super Dwarf Purple Albino Retic from WildSide via ColdBlooded couriers .  He was in fabulous condition plus lovely and warm 
> 
> He looks to be just going into shed so I'll leave him to settle in for while ..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
> 
> ...


Congrats! That's a stunning critter you got. What % SD is it?


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Zincubus (11-06-2016)

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## Zincubus

> Congrats! That's a stunning critter you got. What % SD is it?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I really can't recall tbh ... I'm sure the breeder mentioned it when I paid for it a couple of months ago .. if I come across the info I'll post it .


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## jmcrook

Snoopy snake on top of her warm hide, deep in shed, cooking down a gut full of rats. Gonna be an epic poo/piss tsunami when she sheds next week lol. Even in shed her colors got way brighter and fired up after a big small/small medium rat last night. Can't wait to see her with a fresh coat of paint soon!


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Gio (11-06-2016)

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## Sauzo

Nice pickup. I was tempted to get a lavender SD/D het snow from Vital Exotics but I really like what the tiger throws into the mix plus I love the white on the white phase albinos. I do want to get a motley suntiger SD/D and I really want a pied tiger with the chocolate head and chocolate stripe down its back like someone poured syrup along its spine but that's going to be some serious smooth talking to pull one of those off lol.

Nice pic jmcrook. Is that an extra large exo terra rock hide? I have one of those but mine had sharp burrs inside it so I said screw it and threw it in the reptile extras bin and used the RBI hides. Lol i'm waiting for this round of poo/pee from Caesar. I'm guessing its going to be pretty big since he ate small rat, weaned rat and adult mouse lol. He's brewing it up behind his warm side hide in the little nest he dug on top of the flexwatt lol.

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_jmcrook_ (11-06-2016)

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## jmcrook

Thanks Sauzo. It's the exo terra large size rock hide. Never had one with burrs but I wouldn't doubt it happens. You could probably just hit it with a file or some sandpaper and then seal it with something waterproof. She's just about too big for the large rock hide now, not that it really matters because she only uses her hides maybe once every month or two lol. I'll always offer her hides even if she just chills on top of them. Her other one is a plastic plant saucer with a hole cut in the side of it with a silk plant zip tied to the top. When I got her she fit inside half of a medium exo terra hide. 

Quite a difference in size from March to November. 


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_Sauzo_ (11-06-2016)

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## Sauzo

Haha I like those 2 pics. Is that the Reptichips you have on the bottom?

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## jmcrook

Nah, that's zoomed forest floor cypress mulch. Reptichip looks like this. Well, a reptichip competitor. I've got two blocks of actual reptichip on deck as soon as I finish this tub 

I really like it so far. Only need enough water to break it apart and then you can adjust the moisture content depending on what you need. Super absorbent and definitely cuts down on odors a good deal. My only real criticism is that it's hard to spot pee soaked areas at a quick glance. Have to scout them out if there's no accompanying urates. 

Bonus close up shot of Phyllis's pretty mug haha


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## Zincubus

> Congrats! That's a stunning critter you got. What % SD is it?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I asked the breeder . Reckons it's a 37.5% and the dad was 6' , mum was under 8' so he 'should' be a smallish fella hopefully .


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## jmcrook

Phyllis shed today! Here you go, Gio, Sauzo, all others following. Incredibly difficult to get good pictures of her but here's a few attempts. I'll update with her latest serp widgets measurement soon, got an overhead pic of her next to a 24" ruler for reference.

One small piece of stuck shed that came right off once I got her out

Climbing on the mast of my easel leaned on my flat files


And lastly, to give an idea of her length. I'm only 5'4" so that makes her look bigger by comparison lol. Still getting sizable for a Kalatoa though.
Such a curious thing that absolutely never sits still. Such a joy 



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C.Marie (06-23-2018),Gio (11-08-2016),o.r hill (11-08-2016),_Sauzo_ (11-08-2016)

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## jmcrook

Serp widgets measurement has her length at 5' 9". She's going to be a big girl and sooner than later at this pace. She could be 6.5' by her first bday. Anymore I'm fully expecting an 8-9' snake and will just be pleasantly surprised if she ends up smaller.


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C.Marie (06-23-2018),Gio (11-08-2016),Zincubus (11-08-2016)

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## Gio

Looking great. Love the colors and pattern. Nice and lean too.  Thanks for posting those.

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_jmcrook_ (11-08-2016)

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## jmcrook

Thanks Gio. Very lean and trim indeed. At about 2' longer than my ball python (3' 10") she still weighs 3-400 grams less than Geoffrey who hovers around 1300-1400 grams. She's still got some serious sausage but going on with having eaten two small/medium rats in the last couple weeks, I'll get her on the scale and post an update after she clears her bowels hah. Definitely doesn't feel like like she's nearly 6' when she's in hand which I attribute to her much slighter build compared to other larger constrictors. Certainly will be a lot of snake to handle if/when she tops 8 feet. I Better start saving for a 6' cage! 


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## Sauzo

Cool snake. And looks like you already mentioned the sausage butt lol. Was going to say. And all you guys with your lean and trim garbage!! I like my women thick!! I would say I like my men thick too but that would just sound weird and kind of creepy! With that said, Caesar is my power man and eats like a real meat and potato mountain man!! And dang that is a skinny snake at 6'. I'm used to my boa lol. Better slow down on feeding man or that snake will be sizing you up for dinner soon lol. She's already bigger than you  :Razz:  I love the look of retic heads.

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## jmcrook

> Cool snake. And looks like you already mentioned the sausage butt lol. Was going to say. And all you guys with your lean and trim garbage!! I like my women thick!! I would say I like my men thick too but that would just sound weird and kind of creepy! With that said, Caesar is my power man and eats like a real meat and potato mountain man!! And dang that is a skinny snake at 6'. I'm used to my boa lol. Better slow down on feeding man or that snake will be sizing you up for dinner soon lol. She's already bigger than you  I love the look of retic heads.


Lol I just narrowly avoided getting pooped all over by her. Took an epic s**t and then put her on the scales... 978 grams! She's still got some rat in her from her last feeding 4 days ago, so that's not a truly empty weight. Definitely at or above 900 grams though. 16 times her weight when she arrived. You guys just wait... Phyllis was about the same size as your SD/Dwarf tigers at that 5 months. Curious to see how our differing feeding schedules influence their sizes.
Haha I tried cutting back her feeding and she retaliated by smashing the hell out of her face, which is all healed up by the way. I posted in the face rubbing thread earlier. I'd rather have a larger snake that doesn't destroy its face than a smaller one with a jacked up grill lol. 


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## Sauzo

Haha, I want to see the projectile poo pictures. And we'll see abut the size. I mean Caesar has definitely grown and I think he is going into his 2nd shed since I've had him which has been almost a month. He freakin loves to eat. Even wth his wrinkly little head last night, he popped his head over his hide when I slide the door open looking at me like "dinner!!??". I was like dang Caesar, you just dropped a deuce,you're going into shed, you just ate a weaned rat, an adult mouse and a small rat all on Thursday, and you want more food again!!?? That didn't please him much so he went back behind his hide lol. So I pulled him out, held him for awhile while I cleaned the deuce with 1 hand and he curled up on my hand/arm and hung out. Then I put him down on the bed and he curled up under the blanket while I F10 the poo spot and put new aspen back in. Then I picked him back up and he curled back up on my arm. When he's in shed, all he really does is curl up on me and sit there lol. Such a lounger. Pretty much like my avatar except elongated so he uses my whole forearm lol.

How often are you feeding Phyllis? Isnt it the same as Gio and I? And good that her face is healed up.

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## jmcrook

lol I unfortunately already cleaned up the poo mess/flushed it so no pictures. I saw her start to lift her tail while she was out and I aimed her at the toilet hahah! It was huge
Yeah dude, they'll eat in shed, with a full belly, 10 minutes after they just ate, whenever. Phyllis ate a small/medium rat 4 days ago and popped right to attention as soon as I put the key in the sliding door lock. "Human! More rodents at once!!!" Chilled out as soon as I tapped her with the hook and got her out.
I was following about the same schedule as you for feeding. Hopper mice every 4-5 days until she was on adult mice, then small mice at the same rate. then 2 mice every 5 days until she was on small rats. then I moved her to every 5-6 days. Now she's on 90-100ish gram rats every 7 days. Her next batch of rats are a bit bigger so she may get a 7-10 day schedule as she moves on to legit medium sized rats.
Yeah, I was super relieved to see a clean, white underside of her chin when she shed yesterday. Back to her normal self. Even used one of her hides today lol, been a month probably since she had used either of them.


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_Sauzo_ (11-08-2016)

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## Sauzo

Lol nice. And no I don't want to see the poop. I want to see her poop on you  :Razz:  Its always fun to see that stuff on anyone except yourself haha.

Ok so yeah about the same feeding schedule as I do. I think Gio spaces his feedings out like 10 days. I feed Caesar 2 adult mice every 4-5 days. He is graduating to weaned rats every 4-5 days now as the one he ate Thursday, he got so excited he ate it butt first with no problem lol. The small rat he ate after seemed kind of big still as I don't really like to see them stretch that much during feedings even if they can so i'll stick to weaned rats until his next shed, then he might upgrade to small rats.

Good sign for the hide lol. Guess she is mellowing out.

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## jmcrook

Yeah I don't like seeing them looking like they chugged a nerf ball lol. Though retics do seem to be able to handle much larger meals than most other snakes. Phyllis's next rat on deck is like 130-140 grams. About her upper limits right now in my opinion. I am always surprised how much smaller her food bump is compared to what I expect it to look like. 
If she manages to poo bomb again me I'll be sure to snap a pic for you lol 


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_Sauzo_ (11-08-2016)

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## Sauzo

Hahaha

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## jmcrook

Phyllis ate her biggest meal yet on Thursday. Took down a 130 gram rat no problem. Left a reasonable sized lump but not too big and three days later it looks as though it never happened. Aside from a slowly growing sausage butt lol. The metabolism of retics is unbelievable. Absolutely a bottomless pit. Here she is around her holding tub (80qt tall sterilite) while cleaning her cage. No noticeable lump at all after three days. 


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Gio (11-13-2016),_Reinz_ (11-14-2016),_Sauzo_ (11-13-2016)

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## Gio

> Phyllis ate her biggest meal yet on Thursday. Took down a 130 gram rat no problem. Left a reasonable sized lump but not too big and three days later it looks as though it never happened. Aside from a slowly growing sausage butt lol. The metabolism of retics is unbelievable. Absolutely a bottomless pit. Here she is around her holding tub (80qt tall sterilite) while cleaning her cage. No noticeable lump at all after three days. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What a great size!

If she stays lean and tops out between 8'-11' you'll have a fun snake.

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_jmcrook_ (11-13-2016)

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## Sauzo

Dang she looks pretty big. Didn't you get her a couple months ago? And didn't she fit in 1 hand?

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## jmcrook

> What a great size!
> 
> If she stays lean and tops out between 8'-11' you'll have a fun snake.


She's a blast for sure! 8' is incredibly likely, if she passes 9' she might be among some of the biggest pure Kalatoas out there. I have a buddy that's bred them in the past and says once they hit 7' they tend to start packing on some girth and weight. Time will tell...




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## jmcrook

> Dang she looks pretty big. Didn't you get her a couple months ago? And didn't she fit in 1 hand?


I got her March 4th, so just over 8 months ago. She hatched out between February 11-14 so she was about 3 weeks old when I got her. I only started this thread in August I think though. But yeah, she fit in my palm and was maybe as big around as my pinky or ring finger at best and weighed 50ish grams when she got here. She's just shy of 1000 grams now if she hasn't actually reached 1k. 

Her looking like a majestic beast lol, and her laying on a large exo terra rock hide for size reference 


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Gio (11-22-2016)

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## jmcrook

Haven't updated in a while. Had Phyllis out earlier to do a full cage cleaning and got a pic for a serp widgets measurement. I'm beginning to question the accuracy of that app because I've been using the same ruler every time and today she measured in at 5'6". Three weeks ago she measured 5'10" using the same 24" ruler for reference. No possible way she shrunk 4". 
Still pushing a bit about 5 days after feeding. She's been metabolizing a medium rat in about 4-5 days now. Absolutely insatiable. Super chill for those first 4-5 days but as soon as she drops a deuce she's pacing the cage and pushing at everything. Digging under her hides, under branches, no abrasions though. I've still got the gap between the door and cage lip filled with foam core and mat board so she can't jam her whole head in there.


Side note, broke into my first block of actual reptichip (not an off brand) and I'm sold! Used maybe 1/4-1/3 of the block and covered two T8s and still have a good bit in a tub for spot cleaning. This stuff expands incredibly, has zero dust, and holds great humidity without being wet to the touch. Still my only criticism is that it's really dark so it's hard to see pee messes at a glance, but if you've got bright colored critters they'll look amazing on it. 


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Gio (11-22-2016),_Sauzo_ (11-22-2016)

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## Gio

Excellent on all fronts. IMO you are taking good care of that snake.

I'm not sold on Serp Wig either. I tried it once and did 3 measurements of the exact same animal with the same reference and got 3 different end results. 

Too bad retics are so fast and furious because nothing beats the tape when it comes to getting a measurement.

You have a beautiful LEAN girl and she looks to be progressing just fine.

Well done.

I'm looking forward to spring when and I and Sauzo can shoot some outdoor pictures.

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_jmcrook_ (11-22-2016)

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## jmcrook

Thank you, Gio. She's the first snake that I've had as a brand new hatchling and as such I tend to treat her like she's my first born. 
I'm with you on the serp widgets inaccuracy. Good for getting a ball park measurement but certainly not the best.
I'm really trying to avoid power feeding this gal, but her metabolism is un-freaking-real. If she's getting hungry she'll turn her cage upside down pushing at everything. Weirdly she never did this until I took the divider out of the T8 and gave her the full cage. I may try Cody's suggestion and give her a water bottle to push around and keep her occupied, but I'd definitely need to take out some cage furnishings to give her room to do so. I believe Bcr229 suggested wadding up some balls of brown craft paper for them to push around too. She's got plenty of room to exercise and move about but in hind sight I'm wishing I had gotten her something taller for more climbing options. We'll see how she is size wise around the 1 year mark or more and then try to decide between a 4'x2'x2', 48"x30"x18" or 72"x30"x18. I'm about a 4 hour drive from animal plastics so I could go pick it up if I need to order a T25 and save myself a good deal on the shipping.

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## Sauzo

> Haven't updated in a while. Had Phyllis out earlier to do a full cage cleaning and got a pic for a serp widgets measurement. I'm beginning to question the accuracy of that app because I've been using the same ruler every time and today she measured in at 5'6". Three weeks ago she measured 5'10" using the same 24" ruler for reference. No possible way she shrunk 4". 
> Still pushing a bit about 5 days after feeding. She's been metabolizing a medium rat in about 4-5 days now. Absolutely insatiable. Super chill for those first 4-5 days but as soon as she drops a deuce she's pacing the cage and pushing at everything. Digging under her hides, under branches, no abrasions though. I've still got the gap between the door and cage lip filled with foam core and mat board so she can't jam her whole head in there.
> 
> 
> Side note, broke into my first block of actual reptichip (not an off brand) and I'm sold! Used maybe 1/4-1/3 of the block and covered two T8s and still have a good bit in a tub for spot cleaning. This stuff expands incredibly, has zero dust, and holds great humidity without being wet to the touch. Still my only criticism is that it's really dark so it's hard to see pee messes at a glance, but if you've got bright colored critters they'll look amazing on it. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Awesome man. Well the serp widget will give you different measurements if you have the dots at different locations each time if that makes sense. I believe he said it has some fluctuations in accuracy. It gives you a general idea though.

And haha, your Phyllis sounds like Caesar. A saint until the food lump wears off, then its poop time and off to the races for more food lol.

As for the Reptichips, that's awesome. I was wondering how much I would need to all my cages. Looks like 1 block will be enough to do all 6 cages for me. I still got almost 2 bails of aspen left so once they are done, i'll order me up probably like 6 or 7 of those Reptichip blocks.

Haha I see you got the lock on on that last pic. I have yet to actually lock my cages. They haven't learned how to slide the doors open yet lol. I see that F10 also. I love that stuff. And you got the same water dish I got for Caesar lol.

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_jmcrook_ (11-22-2016)

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## jmcrook

For real, she is an absolute angel with food in her belly and as soon as she takes a dump turns into the devil incarnate. As I'm typing this she is pushing at literally every single item in the cage and with some serious vigor. Might have to plug a rat in her face to chill her out even though she ate a medium rat 5 nights ago. It may also be correlated to doing a full cage clean too. I seem to recall her tossing things about when I moved her into the half T8, anytime I did full cleanings in there, and again when I gave her the full cage 2 months ago. She's going absolutely hulk mode on everything right now. I can only imagine what she'd do to her face if she could cram it in the gap between the glass and the cage lip.
Yeah, I lock them if only for peace of mind. I don't think she could slide it open, but the way she's pushing at things right now I feel like she realistically could. Just started using the F10 SC and SCXD a handful of months back and I love it too! I think your water dish is the next size up though. Pretty sure mine is the large size, and I've got the extra large in the Geoffrey's cage above Phyllis. Great water bowls either way.

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## Gio

> For real, she is an absolute angel with food in her belly and as soon as she takes a dump turns into the devil incarnate. As I'm typing this she is pushing at literally every single item in the cage and with some serious vigor. Might have to plug a rat in her face to chill her out even though she ate a medium rat 5 nights ago. It may also be correlated to doing a full cage clean too. I seem to recall her tossing things about when I moved her into the half T8, anytime I did full cleanings in there, and again when I gave her the full cage 2 months ago. She's going absolutely hulk mode on everything right now. I can only imagine what she'd do to her face if she could cram it in the gap between the glass and the cage lip.
> Yeah, I lock them if only for peace of mind. I don't think she could slide it open, but the way she's pushing at things right now I feel like she realistically could. Just started using the F10 SC and SCXD a handful of months back and I love it too! I think your water dish is the next size up though. Pretty sure mine is the large size, and I've got the extra large in the Geoffrey's cage above Phyllis. Great water bowls either way.


Hey, go at least 24" tall and 30" deep.
AP can and will do it for you.  6 wide with the other two dimensions and you'll be set !!

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_jmcrook_ (11-23-2016)

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## Sauzo

Get the shelf for sure. Caesar likes playing around on his shelf and sitting on top of it.

Lol, Caesar doesn't go hulk mode. He just cruises around all over and stuffs his head around the edges and windshield wipes the glass and then wanders off again. I got the extra large dish. Caesar might go hulk mode though when he gets older lol.

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_jmcrook_ (11-23-2016)

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## jmcrook

Yeah I'm definitely getting the shelf whenever I make an upgrade. Gotta start saving my pennies, 6' cage is gonna be a doozy with a shelf and RHP and locks, etc... then I'll also have an empty T8 that will tempt me to get another critter lol!


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Gio (11-23-2016)

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## Sauzo

> Yeah I'm definitely getting the shelf whenever I make an upgrade. Gotta start saving my pennies, 6' cage is gonna be a doozy with a shelf and RHP and locks, etc... then I'll also have an empty T8 that will tempt me to get another critter lol!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Haha so true. I gotta save my pennies for like 3 of those T25s. Figure i'll get 2 in the spring for the boas as they need it more than Caesar right now. Then probably in the fall, i'll get one for Caesar. And yeah, that's what got me my dumerils, JCP and retic, having extra cages. Luckily for me, once I get the boas and Caesar into the T25s, the T10s will be used for Dottie, Luna and Allison. But then i'll have 2 glass tanks and the Pro Line empty. By then it might be time for another retic lol. 

I really want a pied tiger SD but they aren't made yet. Been thinking of maybe a pied tiger mainland male but I cave easy to my animals begging for food lol so the male might turn into some monster. Also might break down and finally get a BCC. Either a Pucallpa or Iquitos which actually might be the better choice so you all don't read about the guy in seattle who got eaten by his retic lol.

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## jmcrook

> Haha so true. I gotta save my pennies for like 3 of those T25s. Figure i'll get 2 in the spring for the boas as they need it more than Caesar right now. Then probably in the fall, i'll get one for Caesar. And yeah, that's what got me my dumerils, JCP and retic, having extra cages. Luckily for me, once I get the boas and Caesar into the T25s, the T10s will be used for Dottie, Luna and Allison. But then i'll have 2 glass tanks and the Pro Line empty. By then it might be time for another retic lol. 
> 
> I really want a pied tiger SD but they aren't made yet. Been thinking of maybe a pied tiger mainland male but I cave easy to my animals begging for food lol so the male might turn into some monster. Also might break down and finally get a BCC. Either a Pucallpa or Iquitos which actually might be the better choice so you all don't read about the guy in seattle who got eaten by his retic lol.


Lol I'll keep my eyes peeled for that news report! I actually have a brother that lives in Seattle so he'd probably hear about it and tell me haha. I also cave easy for snakes begging for food. Thawed a couple rats for Geoffrey and Phyllis a couple hours ago to see if that would calm her down. Geoffrey turned down his meal (Which will probably be the case until March/April/May?) so Phyllis won the lottery and got two rats tonight, small and medium. As I predicted, she promptly chilled the EFF out and is lounging in a hella food coma. With my luck she'll be hungry again by morning...

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_Sauzo_ (11-23-2016)

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## Sauzo

Haha. Yeah my BP usually goes on food strike from Nov to Mar but for some odd reason she has eaten 2 meals the past 2 weeks. I stuffed a F/T small rat into her hide and bumped it on her body a few times and all heck broke loose and she slammed them lol. So I have no idea whats up with her. I gave up trying to figure her out a long time ago lol.

And yeah that food coma will last about 4 days lol. Then will come the poop followed by destruction in your case. I so glad Caesar doesn't destroy his cage lol. He just paces all over lol.

Vicky actually dropped a deuce and started pacing the front of her cage. I couldn't understand it as she ate last night but when I looked, sure enough, a deuce. So I pulled her out let her sit on me while I cleaned and F10 the area and added more aspen. Then I put her back and started vacuuming as I dropped aspen all over the floor and guess who shows up to see what the excitement is about.....its Caesar with his head at the door looking at me lol. It's like Caesar you ate last night, wtf you hungry again in 24 hours!!?? lol. When there was no dinner, he went back into his warm hide and just had his nose sticking out lol.

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_jmcrook_ (11-23-2016)

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## jmcrook

Latest update on queen Phyllis haha. Ate a small and medium rat 11-22, passed both of them in 5 days then promptly went into shed. On day 10 now since she last ate and zero pushing. I attribute that to being in blue but this is marked improvement from pacing the cage every 4-6 days lol. Might see how a smaller size or less frequent meal plan goes over a week or two after she sheds and see if she still pushes all crazy when she gets hungry. 

Deep in blue. Wrinkly and lazy and miserable hah. Should have a new coat of paint probably Sunday, maybe Monday.


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_Sauzo_ (12-02-2016)

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## Sauzo

Haha nice. Yeah I've noticed their activity seems to be food driven lol. Full stomach and they are quiet and just "inspect" things that come by. Empty stomach and they shoot out to the front of the cage when things go by and if that fails, they actively cruise around lol.

Too funny, Caesar is going into shed too.

I'll bet Phyllis goes back to pushing and pacing when you lower her food intake!!

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## jmcrook

Caught her right as she began shedding this morning! 



Fresh coat of paint and looking real nice!

Bring me rats, human! 


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Gio (12-11-2016),_Sauzo_ (12-03-2016)

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## Sauzo

Haha nice. And I actually do bet that is what she is thinking at the end picture lol. Caesar hasn't been poking his head out today. I fed him a small rat last night that Dottie didn't want and I think that pushed him into full mode shed. He's quiet and curled up inside his warm hide. Think Vicky is going into shed too as well as Luna and Rosey is almost out of shed. And Allison just shed. its pretty busy around here atm lol.

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_jmcrook_ (12-03-2016)

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## jmcrook

Well, Phyllis went back to her pushing, rambunctious self only 5 days after eating two small rats in the same sitting. Turned her cage upside down last night and has been pacing and staring at the doors today. Trying to resist power feeding her but that's about the only thing that keeps her relatively calm lol.
Smashing her face in the bottom edge of her cage... guess we're going back up to medium rats every 7 days. You called it Sauzo! This snake just needs to be in a persistent food coma. Also, she's reached 1179grams last I got her on the scale. I'd question her genetics if  she wasn't from such a reputable breeder. I trust her background, probably should have tried a more maintenance feeding schedule early on. Who knows, that might have got her starting pushing earlier on for all I know.


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Gio (12-11-2016),_Sauzo_ (12-10-2016)

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## Sauzo

Haha funny picture. I'd guess her hunger is just her. Probably nothing you did to promote it. Caesar has kind of mellowed out so far. He did just shed, poop and pee though so who knows. He might go bonkers again. Right now he is relaxing behind a hide looking out front but I did have him out today running all over me while I spot cleaned his cage and then letting him run on the bed so he got his exercise for the day lol.

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_jmcrook_ (12-10-2016)

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## jmcrook

Yeah after a good poo Phyllis starts climbing the walls lol. 
Yes, she just went in her hide, dug under it, and then resurfaced at the back of the cage. She's a maniac. She never acted like this until about a month after she was in the full 4'x2' cage footprint. She was in half a T8 for three months before that, and a 20L critter cage for 3ish months to start out.


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Gio (12-11-2016)

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## Gio

> Yeah after a good poo Phyllis starts climbing the walls lol. 
> Yes, she just went in her hide, dug under it, and then resurfaced at the back of the cage. She's a maniac. She never acted like this until about a month after she was in the full 4'x2' cage footprint. She was in half a T8 for three months before that, and a 20L critter cage for 3ish months to start out.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Looking good as always.

Have either of you installed actual REAL perches? Not just a shelf but perches. I think with some unique climbing options you'll see less pushing. I let my coastal have horizontal and vertical style perches. She loves using them.

Wallace is pretty much out of quarantine now and just finished his second shed here. I'm guess he's closing in a on 4 feet long, maybe a tad under but I'm going to be moving hime to the 48" x 24" x 14" cage soon. He'll have a lot of fun in there.

I'm very happy with his food schedule. He's already gone 12 days without any urges to eat and now the shed is over he's getting 2 chicks.

His final cage will be 6 feet x 30 inches deep and 24 inches high. I'll have naturalistic branches and a ton of goods to keep him busy. I'm still looking at AP caging but will likely go MONSTER for a lot less $$.

Phyllis is looking great and so is the setup!

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_jmcrook_ (12-11-2016)

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## jmcrook

> Looking good as always.
> 
> Have either of you installed actual REAL perches? Not just a shelf but perches. I think with some unique climbing options you'll see less pushing. I let my coastal have horizontal and vertical style perches. She loves using them.
> 
> Wallace is pretty much out of quarantine now and just finished his second shed here. I'm guess he's closing in a on 4 feet long, maybe a tad under but I'm going to be moving hime to the 48" x 24" x 14" cage soon. He'll have a lot of fun in there.
> 
> I'm very happy with his food schedule. He's already gone 12 days without any urges to eat and now the shed is over he's getting 2 chicks.
> 
> His final cage will be 6 feet x 30 inches deep and 24 inches high. I'll have naturalistic branches and a ton of goods to keep him busy. I'm still looking at AP caging but will likely go MONSTER for a lot less $$.
> ...


Thanks Gio! Nah, haven't tried real perches yet as the cage is only 12" tall. Not really any room for shelves or perches of any sort. Her next cage will be at least 18" tall for sure, maybe 24". I just can't let myself drop the money on a 6' wide cage yet and also don't really have the space for one right now. I almost think she'd be good in a 4'x2'x2' or 48"x30"x18" but I don't want to make that investment and then watch her have a 3' growth spurt and be too big for it ya know? But yeah, I agree climbing options will probably deter some pushing. In hindsight I'm wishing I had started her in something taller. I'm fairly handy and could build a good size cage relatively easily but there's something nice about the CNC routered AP cage design and options that I really enjoy. Hmmm... decisions decisions.


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Gio (12-11-2016)

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## Sauzo

Nah, I just use the shelf. Caesar doesn't push anymore. I think the almost 2 months of aggressive feeding has mellowed him out a lot. He has filled out nicely and is more of the lounge retic now lol. He's shed 3 times now and I figure he is at least as long as his T10 if not a bit longer now.

I've decided to push him out to every 7 days on his feedings now.

I'll end up getting him a T25 like the boas but for right now, the T10 is perfect for him. I personally love the AP cages. I just ordered a stand from them as I stacked my 3 T10s and now the top one I need a chair to clean it lol. So once the stand gets here, i'll be able to set it up and then have a nice spot next to that stack for a stack of 3 T25s.

I think you will need a 6' cage Jmcrook. I mean yours is a female so I would guess she will get around 10'. Kris said my male should live in a T10 his whole life and be fine but I think i'm going to get him the 72x30x18 T25 anyways but unless he makes some monster growth between now and spring time when I order the cages, I will be getting the Vicky one first. Rosey is for sure getting one first and foremost as she is my biggest. Then its a race between who gets the 2nd one and the 3rd one will come end of summer.

As for the pushing, I honestly don't think its a shelf or perch issue. I mean you see all these videos of guys with big retics in 8' cages with no shelf or perch and they are fine and quiet. I think its just food driven or improper cage temps/humidity etc. But I think Jmcrook has his cage set up good. I think his girl just wants food to grow and her pushing is her trying to "find" food since she cant slither all over like in the wild hunting for dinner. Like I said, Caesar went through his phase of going bonkers for food and anything that moved. He also shed 3 times in just under 2 months and close to doubled his size. Now though he is mellowed out like I said and still looks at movement but doesn't come charging it like before. Although last night he did come straight to the glass doors when I wiggled a wadded up white paper towel lol. Think he thought it was a rat haha. Then when he saw it wasn't dinner, he wandered off and sat half on top of his hide.

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## jmcrook

> I think you will need a 6' cage Jmcrook. I mean yours is a female so I would guess she will get around 10'. Kris said my male should live in a T10 his whole life and be fine but I think i'm going to get him the 72x30x18 T25 anyways but unless he makes some monster growth between now and spring time when I order the cages, I will be getting the Vicky one first. Rosey is for sure getting one first and foremost as she is my biggest. Then its a race between who gets the 2nd one and the 3rd one will come end of summer.
> 
> As for the pushing, I honestly don't think its a shelf or perch issue. I mean you see all these videos of guys with big retics in 8' cages with no shelf or perch and they are fine and quiet. I think its just food driven or improper cage temps/humidity etc. But I think Jmcrook has his cage set up good. I think his girl just wants food to grow and her pushing is her trying to "find" food since she cant slither all over like in the wild hunting for dinner.


Yep, I think you and Gio are both totally on point. If she had stayed in her parents size range she could probably live her life in a 4' cage. Technically she probably still could but she's so active I would feel bad doing that to what will eventually/likely be an 8-9'+ snake.
I also think you hit the nail on the head about her hunting. After all she is 1st generation captive bred from wild caught Kalatoa parents and most definitely has a bit of wild instinct in her. A lot of those giant retics staying calm in an 8' cage are pretty deep into captive generations of bloodlines and I'm guessing are much more chill as a result of having some of the wildness bred out of them. Aside from needing more height, Phyllis has a pretty plush pad lol. 65% humidity, 87* warm side, 75-79* cool side, two hides (that she never uses except to push all over the place) a couple branches to crawl around on (and also just bulldozes them all over along with her water bowl while pushing at the cage.) 
I may just bite the bullet and order a T20/T25 and then have time to wait for it to be ready. Might also be worth a 4 hour drive from mid Missouri to Iowa to avoid the freight shipping. I'm sorta torn between the T20-25 because the 25 is $40 less but also a half a foot shorter but half a foot deeper. I'm feel like added height would be beneficial but also more air space to heat. I could definitely make a super stimulating and awesome looking display cage with a climbing/perch/jungle gym for her in a 24" tall cage that I feel she would use. I feel like I'm back at square one now trying to accommodate for her crazy growth rate lol. I was prepared to accept an 8-10' adult size snake just not quite this quick haha


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## Sauzo

I would definitely go for the floor space vs the height. 18" is a good height, enough room for a shelf and whatever else plus easy enough to heat. You can never have enough floor space though lol.

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_jmcrook_ (12-12-2016)

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## jmcrook

That was my exact thoughts lol. I could make some cool perches like Gio has going on with that height and have a super slick looking display cage 


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## Sauzo

You could. While I like looking at display cages, not a fan of having to clean them and as I have my snakes out a lot, I tend to change their substrate fairly often as I don't want a snake who cruised across a turd or a pile a piss crawling all over me lol.

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_jmcrook_ (12-12-2016)

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## jmcrook

I hear ya on that. I generally try to strike a good balance between decked out display and minimalist aesthetics. Couple hides, a branch or two and a bit of fake vines or plants. Still looks nice but not a huge hassle to clean. 


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## Sauzo

Yeah. I used to do the silk vines from Michaels craft store but my snakes pull the stuff down and then poop or pee on them. And then I am stuck with silk leaves that smell like snake poop. I mean even hanging them in the shower and spraying them down with F10SC, letting them soak and then rinsing them off doesn't really get the smell out lol. I gave up and now just give all my gals and guy hides and a water bowl and of course the shelf. They seem fairly content. All really mellow, eat like horses, poop like horses and growing.

If I had display snakes like GTPs or ETBs, I would definitely set up a sweet cage with tons of perches and vines hanging down and even maybe one of those Zoo Med waterfalls. Give it a total jungle look to it but those snakes I probably wouldn't "play" with as much as my boas or retic. I mean my boas come out with me in the summer at least 3 times a week if not more and the retic will be getting that too so having a really cluttered cage would just make taking them out a pain and trying to find poop and pee a pain. Not to mention, I have enough work cleaning out 6 snake cages every month. Couldn't imagine having to do that as well as washing all the decorations for 6 cages. Would take me a weekend a month to do it lol.

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Gio (12-21-2016)

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## jmcrook

Hanging out with Phyllis earlier today. The flat file drawer is 54" end to end for size reference. So she's still somewhere in the 5 1/2' range at almost 10 1/2 months old now. 


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Gio (12-21-2016),_Sauzo_ (12-21-2016)

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## Sauzo

Awesome looking. She is getting huge.

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Gio (12-21-2016)

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## Gio

> You could. While I like looking at display cages, not a fan of having to clean them and as I have my snakes out a lot, I tend to change their substrate fairly often as I don't want a snake who cruised across a turd or a pile a piss crawling all over me lol.


Guess how long it takes to clean these,,,,,,?????





All of those perches pop right out. Bing, bing, bing. Dust pan scoops out substrate when doing a deep clean. Shop vac takes the rest. Scalding, close to boiling water and solution goes on the floor of the cages to remove any traces of urates and the filth. I'll dump a bag of coco husk, cypress or repti-bark in and replace the hides in less than 15 minutes. That is a TOTAL clean/change out.

You can't spot clean news print or paper towels, but natural substrate is easy to scoop and replace, literally minutes is all it takes when just spot cleaning. It actually absorbs waste and minimizes smells, and isolates most defecation.

Really, the only things I need to clean are the hides, water bowls and substrate. 

Unless your cages are always ripe with humidity, nothing really happens to the perches and fake plants. My snakes don't defecate on them, at least not in the last 5 years.


Again, each to their own, but don't be turned off from enjoying the beauty of a naturalistic cage based solely on cleaning. Its not that difficult if you think it through. 

I draw the line on the number of snakes I have when the work to keep them overshadows the fulfillment of having them.

With four currently, I'm not at all over my head.



That SD you have there sir is absolutely stunning!

Every time you update her pictures she looks better and better!

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## Sauzo

I'm mostly talking about spot cleaning and trying to find those hidden poops and pisses.

I don't doubt full cleanings are fairly fast.

I'm just saying I do full cage cleanings at least once a month for most of the snakes. The retic is a poop and pee machine so he sometimes gets full cleanings 3 weeks. Also i'm not sure if its just my guy but do either of you guys ever have your retic pee but not leave urates? Caesar sometimes leaves those and I can smell them when I open the door and see the spike in humidity so I have to literally feel around the cage until I find the wet spot haha and then spot clean that area.

Plus I also take my snakes out a lot so I just picture a "full" cage making it harder to get some out.

Also I finally decided to switch substrate. Ordered 3 bricks of ReptiChips to test them out as Jmcrook and some other retic and boa owners I've talked to have said the stuff is awesome. So my boas and retic will be the guinea pigs for it next week. Also finally got my stand put together and set up. So now I got the 3 stack of T10s and later I can put a 3 stack of T25s with stand next to it to make an awesome condo set up haha.


I'll have to sell off my normal Herpstat 2 and 1 and get me 2 more Redlines so it all matches lol.

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Gio (12-22-2016)

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## jmcrook

Thanks guys! She really is quite the animal to have the privilege of working with. Very spirited critter as well. I think she must be channeling Allie recently haha. Took a shot at the glass last night and took a half hearted shot at the hook when I just went in to clean up some urates. Which of course she left for me immediately after having her out for an hour after having cleaned up a small pee spot. She then proceeded to smash around everything in the cage and is currently staring at me through the doors lol. Only 3 days since she ate last. I think she's just built up some confidence since her tiny reticulated worm days haha. Really doesn't feel or look like an almost 6' snake until she stretches out along something. Still very trim and lean for her length. She's going to be very impressive at 8'+


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## jmcrook

> I'm mostly talking about spot cleaning and trying to find those hidden poops and pisses.
> 
> I don't doubt full cleanings are fairly fast.
> 
> I'm just saying I do full cage cleanings at least once a month for most of the snakes. The retic is a poop and pee machine so he sometimes gets full cleanings 3 weeks. Also i'm not sure if its just my guy but do either of you guys ever have your retic pee but not leave urates? Caesar sometimes leaves those and I can smell them when I open the door and see the spike in humidity so I have to literally feel around the cage until I find the wet spot haha and then spot clean that area.
> 
> Plus I also take my snakes out a lot so I just picture a "full" cage making it harder to get some out.
> 
> Also I finally decided to switch substrate. Ordered 3 bricks of ReptiChips to test them out as Jmcrook and some other retic and boa owners I've talked to have said the stuff is awesome. So my boas and retic will be the guinea pigs for it next week. Also finally got my stand put together and set up. So now I got the 3 stack of T10s and later I can put a 3 stack of T25s with stand next to it to make an awesome condo set up haha.
> ...


Oh yeah Phyllis leaves straight liquid pee more often than urates by a long shot. She pees probably every other day until she finally drops a deuce. And yeah it stinks worse than any other snake I've worked with, though the reptichip does a good job of soaking up odors but makes it tougher to spot the pee in the cage.  
I think next time I order substrate I'm going to try Plant!t/Grow!t coconut chips. Pretty sure it's the exact same stuff as reptichip. Same size brick, same package... http://www.greenhousemegastore.com/p...oil-amendments 
About half the price and seemingly identical. If I go that route I'll give a review of it compared to reptichip. Deborah posted in a thread about it recently and said she gets 10 blocks shipped for like $120 total. Pretty good deal in my book
Those stacks of APs are going to look way slick side by side with glowing red Herpstats! I've got the redline too just for the simple fact that it looks awesome haha


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## Sauzo

> Thanks guys! She really is quite the animal to have the privilege of working with. Very spirited critter as well. I think she must be channeling Allie recently haha. Took a shot at the glass last night and took a half hearted shot at the hook when I just went in to clean up some urates. Which of course she left for me immediately after having her out for an hour after having cleaned up a small pee spot. She then proceeded to smash around everything in the cage and is currently staring at me through the doors lol. Only 3 days since she ate last. I think she's just built up some confidence since her tiny reticulated worm days haha. Really doesn't feel or look like an almost 6' snake until she stretches out along something. Still very trim and lean for her length. She's going to be very impressive at 8'+
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Haha yeah Caesar is much more bold too now that he is used to everything. And just as I said Caesar is fine with 7 day feedings, I was wrong. After5 days he was begging at the front of the cage and started pushing his head between the door and brace. He also was just laying in front of the door stretched out haha and kept poking his head up over the litter dam.

And as for channeling Allie, lol. Allie has mellowed out a lot. She seems to even be getting more mellow since I got her on weaned rats. Maybe its a food coma. She does get pissed at soda cans though and takes shots at them and hisses at them lol.

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## Sauzo

> Oh yeah Phyllis leaves straight liquid pee more often than urates by a long shot. She pees probably every other day until she finally drops a deuce. And yeah it stinks worse than any other snake I've worked with, though the reptichip does a good job of soaking up odors but makes it tougher to spot the pee in the cage.  
> I think next time I order substrate I'm going to try Plant!t/Grow!t coconut chips. Pretty sure it's the exact same stuff as reptichip. Same size brick, same package... http://www.greenhousemegastore.com/p...oil-amendments 
> About half the price and seemingly identical. If I go that route I'll give a review of it compared to reptichip. Deborah posted in a thread about it recently and said she gets 10 blocks shipped for like $120 total. Pretty good deal in my book
> Those stacks of APs are going to look way slick side by side with glowing red Herpstats! I've got the redline too just for the simple fact that it looks awesome haha
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ok good to know Caesar isn't the only one who is a piss machine haha. He's a good boy with pooping in his cool side back corner but his non urate pisses seem to just get dropped wherever he feels like dropping it haha. His really don't smell that bad. I mean its not roses but it pretty smells like the boas piss too.

As for the Plant It/ Grow It stuff. Let us know if its dusty or anything. Price is good though. I just paid $70 for 3 blocks of the ReptiChips which is the equivalent of a big bail of Aspen I used to use. And that was $25 a bail. I figure its probably going to take 1.5 blocks per month or so for everyone so the stuff is going to add up in price  :Sad: 

And yeah I like the Redlines too haha. Going to do 3 of the T25s on the stand with 2 of those Redlines again. Then i'll probably just keep the white ProLine cage as a spare cage for when I have to reseal the Ap cages. Can put whoever in it for about a week while waiting for the lexel to dry and set. I'll pick up one of the T25s this spring for Rosey as she needs a bigger cage and then get the last 2 and stand end of summer since Vicky and Caesar are fine in T10s for now.

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## Gio

> I'm mostly talking about spot cleaning and trying to find those hidden poops and pisses.
> 
> I don't doubt full cleanings are fairly fast.
> 
> I'm just saying I do full cage cleanings at least once a month for most of the snakes. The retic is a poop and pee machine so he sometimes gets full cleanings 3 weeks. Also i'm not sure if its just my guy but do either of you guys ever have your retic pee but not leave urates? Caesar sometimes leaves those and I can smell them when I open the door and see the spike in humidity so I have to literally feel around the cage until I find the wet spot haha and then spot clean that area.
> 
> Plus I also take my snakes out a lot so I just picture a "full" cage making it harder to get some out.
> 
> Also I finally decided to switch substrate. Ordered 3 bricks of ReptiChips to test them out as Jmcrook and some other retic and boa owners I've talked to have said the stuff is awesome. So my boas and retic will be the guinea pigs for it next week. Also finally got my stand put together and set up. So now I got the 3 stack of T10s and later I can put a 3 stack of T25s with stand next to it to make an awesome condo set up haha.
> ...


Same,

I have had pure liquid and still often do.  And I've had terrible smells with paper towels during his early time in quarantine. 

The coco husk has been great as it absorbs, isolates and minimizes smells. I use repti bark in the carpet cage and use a mix of cypress and coco husk in the boa cage, the royal seems to do best on aspen or coco husk.

I think you'll like repti chips, and YES taking any snake out that is capable of wrapping a tail around something is certainly more difficult. 

Depending on what is going on, my boa gets a pass on coming out because he is the king of wrapping and gripping objects in the cage. I wait until he's gone back into terrestrial mode to get him out. I don't mind because I enjoy just watching him when he is climbing. Wallace is perched as I type and has been all day and evening.

Like I've said in the past; people should do what works best for them and their situation. 

I just don't want to see folks give up on a satisfying, display setup with the preconceived idea that they are way too much work.

Good conversation here as always.

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_jmcrook_ (12-22-2016),_Sauzo_ (12-23-2016)

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## Sauzo

Yeah I think Vicky would do ok in a display set up as she really doesn't seem to care either way coming out or not. Rosey seems to actually like to come out the most. She will be quiet a few days and then start looking around the front all over. I open the door and she is out and climbing up onto my shoulder lol. She is the only one who seems excited to come out and explore. The rest don't mind coming out but they aren't as forward about it as Rosey. Might be because Rosey was my first so I used to take her out almost daily where as the other ones come out probably 2-3 times a week.

And yeah I'm kind of excited about the ReptiChips. I've been using aspen for years so a change seems nice. I still got a bail of aspen left though which i'll probably use for the dumerils as they don't need near the humidity of the boas or retic. Plus she loves to burrow in her aspen and just sit with her little head poking out haha.

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## Gio

> Yeah I think Vicky would do ok in a display set up as she really doesn't seem to care either way coming out or not. Rosey seems to actually like to come out the most. She will be quiet a few days and then start looking around the front all over. I open the door and she is out and climbing up onto my shoulder lol. She is the only one who seems excited to come out and explore. The rest don't mind coming out but they aren't as forward about it as Rosey. Might be because Rosey was my first so I used to take her out almost daily where as the other ones come out probably 2-3 times a week.
> 
> And yeah I'm kind of excited about the ReptiChips. I've been using aspen for years so a change seems nice. I still got a bail of aspen left though which i'll probably use for the dumerils as they don't need near the humidity of the boas or retic. Plus she loves to burrow in her aspen and just sit with her little head poking out haha.


Ha ha!

I think we all have a big block of aspen.

I still have at least half of the HUGE amount I bought 5 years ago LOL!

It never hurts to switch it up.

JM,,,

I really like Phyllis looking dark like she does in your work area. Her pattern is exceptional and she almost has a coffee/mocha coloration.  

Very cool.

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_jmcrook_ (12-23-2016)

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## Sauzo

Alright ladies!! I'm following you 2 and I switched Caesar, Rosey, Vicky and Dottie to Coco Husk. I didn't want to wait the week for the ReptiChips to get here so I bought 9 blocks of the Exo Terra stuff. So far its pretty good and man it skyrockets the humidity lol. Even with only wetting half of it and then blending with the dry stuff, I get 80-90% humidity. 

Caesar loves it. 

Vicky and Rosey were scared of it at first and gripped onto my arm and wouldn't go into their cage. They just sniffed the stuff haha. I had to pile them in and shut the door. Then they sat at the front like "omg let me out!!" Now they seem to be interested in it.

Dottie is just exploring all over and keeps making pit stops and burying her head in it and then looking around and cruising on haha.

Overall I think its a hit with the gang but haven't tried it with Allie or Luna yet.

My question is how often do you guys dump it all and change it out?

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## jmcrook

I've never actually use the exo terra stuff. I've heard it like totally dusty and dirt like. I change the reptichip every 2ish months for full clean out and spot clean as needed. When it dries out I pile it up and dump some water in it and mix it back up to maintain humidity levels. Definitely holds hella humidity for a good bit. Phyllis digs around in it like crazy when it's a fresh bedding too like it sounds like Dottie is doing lol


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## Sauzo

Lol yeah, Dottie is going crazy in it haha. It's actually not dusty at all. It does seem different than the Reptichips from the look. Its for the most part chunk stuff. I'll have to wait for the Reptichip stuff to compare but so far it seems decent except it is expensive. Heres what it looks like. It definitely makes whitish snakes pop lol. Would have took one of Caesar but he is behind his cool hide investigating lol.


Lol here's Dottie going crazy in it.

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_jmcrook_ (12-23-2016)

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## Sauzo

Yeah, I'll probably just use a spray bottle and just spray it down with the hides when they humidity drops down.

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## jmcrook

Huh, looks way better than what I've heard from other folks on here. Every one else has seemed to say it turns to mud when it's wet. The reptichip are definitely more mulch like judging by looking at the pictures you posted. Definitely does make light colored animals pop a lot more! Let me know how you feel about it compared to the reptichip when it comes in 


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## Sauzo

Yeah definitely will do. And here is an updated pic of the T10s with the stuff in it. Looks pretty good if I do say so myself  :Very Happy:

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_jmcrook_ (12-23-2016)

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## jmcrook

Dang! Look at that glowing yellow Vicky on the coco husk! 


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_Sauzo_ (12-23-2016)

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## Sauzo

> Huh, looks way better than what I've heard from other folks on here. Every one else has seemed to say it turns to mud when it's wet. The reptichip are definitely more mulch like judging by looking at the pictures you posted. Definitely does make light colored animals pop a lot more! Let me know how you feel about it compared to the reptichip when it comes in 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Eco Earth turns to mud when wet. That's the Coir fiber stuff, not the husk stuff. And yes, Eco Earth sucks, its dusty as all heck when it dries out and when too wet it turns to mud. It also packs down really tight if you have a big snake on it. Rosey packed hers down when I used it and it actually grew mold. Never used it again. That was when I switched to aspen years ago.

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_jmcrook_ (12-23-2016)

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## Sauzo

> Dang! Look at that glowing yellow Vicky on the coco husk! 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks. I should have snapped a shot of Caesar when I put him in. He was excited. he sat on top of his hide looking out, then moved to the side of the hide but now he's done exploring I think and you can kind of see a part of him poking out the left side behind his cool side hide.

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## Gio

> Yeah definitely will do. And here is an updated pic of the T10s with the stuff in it. Looks pretty good if I do say so myself


Looks great!

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_Sauzo_ (12-23-2016)

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## Sauzo

Thanks. And the snakes love the stuff lol. I know this is the retic section but cant pass up the pic of Vicky with coconut on her head  :Razz:

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Gio (12-23-2016),_jmcrook_ (12-23-2016)

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## jmcrook

Feisty Phyllis being a dull miserable pile deep in shed lol. Must be hitting a spurt because she shed on the 3rd of December and went into blue on xmas day barely three weeks later. Also got a new phone with a killer camera so her photo updates should be crisp as can be! Looking forward to photo session after she sheds in a couple days!


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_Sauzo_ (12-28-2016)

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## Sauzo

Poke her with your finger and see what she does!! 

And yeah I think a few of my gals are going into shed too. Rosey ate a huge rabbit and I think that triggered a shed for her. She has been antisocial sitting in her hide and she dulling up. Dottie is a nice shade of pink and being more antisocial than usual lol. And i'm not sure with Caesar but it looks like his head/neck is getting wrinkly. That's the only way I can tell with him if he is going to shed. He did get an extra helping of food last night as Dottie didn't want a rat so Caesar got his chick and a rat lol. And I even think Luna is going into shed as she is dulling up too.

So I decided I was going to get a Cow retic for my next snake and just forego the BCC as I am in love with retics now lol. But then I found out the price on them.....about 7kish. I cried a little. Also I guess there are only a few breeders of them. Nerd being the biggest. I did find a guy who said he had some for sale. Now I just need a go fund me acct and enough people to donate 7k to me for a new snake hahahaha :Rolleyes2: 

Oh I also just got my shipment of ReptiChips and looking at it, it looks pretty much the same as the Exo Terra stuff lol. I didn't open the bag though. Think I might order a couple bricks of that Plant it/Grow it stuff too to compare.

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_jmcrook_ (12-28-2016)

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## jmcrook

Queen Phyllis got herself a new paint job last night and man was she fired up and looking smoking! 



Best headshot I could get one handed, she goes wherever she wants all the time, and stealthily at that.

The yellow coloration is coming in really nicely on her throat. 

Gotta love that retic iridescence! 
"That photo shoot made me thirsty, dad!"-Phyllis 

Today's weigh in was about 1430 grams after she emptied about a half a pint of piss, urates, and an almost human sized dump all over the floor that she's been holding on to since she last ate 12 days ago lol. Longest she's held it in yet and hasn't been pushing looking for food either but that's because she was in shed the last 5-6 days. I may see how she does waiting until Sunday to eat, just to keep the same feeding day and to see if she will make it to an even 2 weeks between feedings without going all hulk on her cage.

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o.r hill (12-30-2016),_Sauzo_ (12-30-2016)

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## Sauzo

Looks good. And yeah, we'll see how the feeding schedule goes lol. Right as I said, Caesar is happy on a 7 day schedule, he starts camping the sliding door that always opens for food. Retics are pretty darn smart. Phyllis is getting that armored raptor head look. I love that look on retics.

Have you tried quail and chicks for Phyllis yet? I swear it makes Caesar's poop not as stinky as when he eats rats. Plus he freakin loves poultry....well he actually just loves food but he seems to grab the poultry quicker when offered.

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_jmcrook_ (12-30-2016)

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## EL-Ziggy

You guys are killing me with these beautiful retics! Your girl looks great crook!

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_jmcrook_ (12-30-2016)

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## jmcrook

> Looks good. And yeah, we'll see how the feeding schedule goes lol. Right as I said, Caesar is happy on a 7 day schedule, he starts camping the sliding door that always opens for food. Retics are pretty darn smart. Phyllis is getting that armored raptor head look. I love that look on retics.
> 
> Have you tried quail and chicks for Phyllis yet? I swear it makes Caesar's poop not as stinky as when he eats rats. Plus he freakin loves poultry....well he actually just loves food but he seems to grab the poultry quicker when offered.


I'll probably keep her on a 7-10 day schedule and see how it goes. She shed last night and hasn't shown any signs of pushing since. Fingers crossed she's growing out of that. Yeah she's starting to grow out of her bug eyed little noodle stage and developing that nice muscular dinosaur head haha!
I'd be interested to try chicks and quail with her but I don't have a source near me that I'm aware of at the moment. I could order them but I don't have the freezer space to make an online order worth the shipping. I'm sure she'd go bonkers for something with feathers haha! Pretty sure that Kalatoa island is a migratory bird nesting site, so I'd guess her brain is wired for birds when they're available. Really her brain is just wired to eat anything that moves any time she can. Would be nice to make her bowels less stinky, they can be pretty rank sometimes lol like the several ounces of piss I had to clean out of the carpet earlier. 


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_Sauzo_ (12-30-2016)

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## jmcrook

> You guys are killing me with these beautiful retics! Your girl looks great crook!


Thanks ziggy! You should jump on board! Such inquisitive and smart snakes, definitely the most exciting and interesting snake I've worked with. Phyllis's mom laid a clutch about a month or two ago, should be hatching around late January or February I'd guess. Reptile avenue/Daniel Solis produced them


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## Sauzo

> I'll probably keep her on a 7-10 day schedule and see how it goes. She shed last night and hasn't shown any signs of pushing since. Fingers crossed she's growing out of that. Yeah she's starting to grow out of her bug eyed little noodle stage and developing that nice muscular dinosaur head haha!
> I'd be interested to try chicks and quail with her but I don't have a source near me that I'm aware of at the moment. I could order them but I don't have the freezer space to make an online order worth the shipping. I'm sure she'd go bonkers for something with feathers haha! Pretty sure that Kalatoa island is a migratory bird nesting site, so I'd guess her brain is wired for birds when they're available. Really her brain is just wired to eat anything that moves any time she can. Would be nice to make her bowels less stinky, they can be pretty rank sometimes lol like the several ounces of piss I had to clean out of the carpet earlier. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Haha i'm still blessed with Caesar not being a pisser on me. What he seems to love to do is curl up between my arm and belly and just go to sleep there. And yeah his poop smelled like death when I got him but since the poultry, his poop doesn't really smell that bad anymore. I mean its poop and doesn't smell like roses but also doesn't smell strong enough to peel paint anymore. The coco husk might be helping too. I actually have a hard time finding piss now with the coco husk. I mostly just have to clean up an area around any white urate I find. I might start changing his substrate every 1.5 months and just switch to that Plant It/Grow It stuff to help save cash. And also, Caesar doesn't seem to push too much anymore either. I mean he never was a big pusher but he would push some when hungry. Now he just camps the 'food door' and if nothing comes quick enough, he will sit with his head on the litter dam looking out haha.

I bet Phyllis would go bonkers for feathers. I know Vicky and Caesar love it. Rosey is just painful to watch her eat poultry so I probably will just stick to rabbits and rats for her and maybe small chicks and quails until she figures how to eat them efficiently. Caesar and Vicky are pro at it.

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## o.r hill

How long is she at this point?

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## jmcrook

> How long is she at this point?


Hard to get an accurate measurement on her but she's somewhere between 5.5-6 feet or so. She'll be 11 months in about two weeks


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o.r hill (12-30-2016)

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## o.r hill

Regarding the quail, i have seen plucked and cleaned ones at a local Asian market.  I think she could eat four of them.

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_jmcrook_ (12-30-2016)

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## Sauzo

4 of them!!?? Holy cow lol. Quail get pretty decent size. Caesar who is 4' give or take eats a 2 week old quail every week as his normal amount. On times when Dottie decides she isn't hungry, Caesar gets a small rat with the quail and after that, he is pretty stuffed lol. Looks like a little sausage as he pushes himself away with his tail haha.

You could try the Asian market I guess but I would think the feathers would help "clean" out her system. kind of like us eating more fiber for healthier poops lol.

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## o.r hill

The ones in that package looked teeny.  Maybe two per oven stuffer chicken leg full of meat.  I share your concern that feeding featureless (and gutless) food items may shortchange them.    I alternate F/T rats and poultry.  I get the impression that the rats keep them fuller feeling longer.   Still I like having the alternative.

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## Zincubus

[QU OTE=o.r hill;2493903]The ones in that package looked teeny.  Maybe two per oven stuffer chicken leg full of meat.  I share your concern that feeding featureless (and gutless) food items may shortchange them.    I alternate F/T rats and poultry.  I get the impression that the rats keep them fuller feeling longer.   Still I like having the alternative.[/QUOTE]
...    

Maybe for an occasional change !?

It's something that crossed my mind as I our local Tesco we can get a whole uncooked chicken for a quid / dollar LESS than the local snake shop charges me for a large rat but it just seems such a waste giving a whole chicken to a snake !?

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## Sauzo

I use quails and chicks as an even part of my boas and retic diet now that I got a supplier for them. Caesar and Vicky go bonkers when they smell them. Rosey not so much, she still likes her rabbits more. I'll also add in rabbits to Caesar and Vicky's rotation when they get big enough. And eventually, i'll do gpigs for Caesar too.

Now mind you, these are whole prey with feathers and everything, not a chicken leg or gutted, plucked chicken from the market. Not too sure how good those would be as half the diet for a snake.

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## jmcrook

Yeah if I had a supplier for feeder fowl I'd offer them to Phyllis. I've never fed a prey item that wasn't a whole animal and I've also seen pics of reptiles with chicken leg bones that burst through the stomach and that worries me a bit. Probably won't try poultry until I can find a whole prey item to offer her. 


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## Sauzo

Once you do, I'm sure Phyllis will go crazy haha. I gave Caesar 2 quails last night and after he ate the first one, I came over with the 2nd one in tongs and he struck at the air out of the cage door haha. I guess he smelled the quail and saw a shadow go by and tried to grab it. He LOVES his poultry lol.

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_jmcrook_ (01-01-2017)

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## jmcrook

Upgraded Phyllis's pad today.

I had to try out the camo dog bowls reinz and sauzo are using and I like it so far. Phyllis very quickly investigated and approved.


Also scaled down to a single warm side hide that was larger rather than two as she never uses them anymore. Unexpectedly she's actually using it. She sat like this for probably 15-20 minutes twice on different inspections and then finally decided to go in and she's been hanging out there ever since.

Just a small litter box with a door cut in it. $5 at my local pet shop.  Phyllis approved!


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_Reinz_ (01-29-2017),_Sauzo_ (01-29-2017)

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## Sauzo

Haha nice. Yeah, everyone likes those camo dog bowls and I was going to say, Caesar uses his hides a lot. Mostly just during the day when he's sleeping. Come lights out, he is out and about all over, usually either at the front of the cage or sitting up on his shelf.

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## Reinz

Nice setups JM!  Phyllis is growing well and looks like she put on some good toned girth too.  :Smile:

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_jmcrook_ (01-29-2017)

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## jmcrook

I was really surprised by how quickly she used the hide. The last two she's had she maybe used 5 times since October. I swear she could fit under them until recently but maybe she just likes more space in her hides. 
Yeah she has really started to pack on weight and get some serious muscle tone. I weighed her at I think 1530 grams the other day, that's the same weight as Geoffrey and he's 3'10" and she's right about 6'. Serp Widgets claims 6'4.5" by this pick with this hook as my ruler at 39.5" but I think their measurements tend to be a bit generous 
Still very lean and much slighter build than mainland retics. I'm very curious to see if she stays built like this or how much she'll pack on in girth once she's done growing in length.
Her first birthday is in about two weeks! Between February 11-14. I don't know the exact hatch date. The clutch started pipping 2/11/16 and were all out of the eggs by 2/14/16. 

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## Stearns84

> Upgraded Phyllis's pad today.
> 
> I had to try out the camo dog bowls reinz and sauzo are using and I like it so far. Phyllis very quickly investigated and approved.
> 
> 
> Also scaled down to a single warm side hide that was larger rather than two as she never uses them anymore. Unexpectedly she's actually using it. She sat like this for probably 15-20 minutes twice on different inspections and then finally decided to go in and she's been hanging out there ever since.
> 
> Just a small litter box with a door cut in it. $5 at my local pet shop.  Phyllis approved!
> 
> ...


Beautiful set up! What kind of substrate do you use (might have missed it in the 19 page thread)?  I currently have my Dwarf in a rack set up (41qt), until the T8 is delivered in a few weeks with an RHP.  I keep Tina (ball python) on cypress because she goes pretty long between taking a piss or poop.  However I keep Gene (retic) on paper towel because he pisses every day.  Only day he doesnt pee is post feeding day.  Looking to making the T8 as a very visually appeasing enclosure and figured Id go back to a natural substrate.  Have you found any issues with the amount that they pee with your substrate both with sent and mold?  How often do you do a full change out of substrate verse just spot cleaning?

Thanks,
Steve

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_jmcrook_ (01-29-2017)

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## Sauzo

Dang Phyllis is getting big lol. Good looking lady.

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_jmcrook_ (01-29-2017)

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## jmcrook

> Beautiful set up! What kind of substrate do you use (might have missed it in the 19 page thread)?  I currently have my Dwarf in a rack set up (41qt), until the T8 is delivered in a few weeks with an RHP.  I keep Tina (ball python) on cypress because she goes pretty long between taking a piss or poop.  However I keep Gene (retic) on paper towel because he pisses every day.  Only day he doesnt pee is post feeding day.  Looking to making the T8 as a very visually appeasing enclosure and figured Id go back to a natural substrate.  Have you found any issues with the amount that they pee with your substrate both with sent and mold?  How often do you do a full change out of substrate verse just spot cleaning?
> 
> Thanks,
> Steve


I've currently got her on coco husk mulch/reptichip. Does a great job of minimizing odors and super absorbent too. Holds humidity well also. Phyllis also likes to pee, a lot. Generally every 2-3 days. I spot clean as needed and do a full clean out every 2 months give or take depending on how things are looking. Never had any mold issues with reptichip or cypress mulch when I used to use it. 
What % dwarf is your retic? It will probably out grow a T8 in short order unless it has some super dwarf blood in it as well. Phyllis has been in hers, without a divider, since September and could probably use at least more height at this point but I'm holding off to see if she's really going to need a T25 6'x2.5'x1.5' or is she can get by in a T13 4'x2.5'x1.5' when she's due for an enclosure upgrade. 


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## Stearns84

I was so indecisive onwhich one to go with, so I went with the T8 and figured if he out grew it I’d toss by female ball python in it.   Gene is a male Dwarf / SD (25% SD & 25% Jamp), his dad was around 7’ and mom was around 8’. Gene is at 19 months and maybe at 4.5’ right now.He still gets a pretty large lump on a medium F/T rat. You think I should just order a larger one and use the T8 for the ball python?
These pictures were taken around Christmas.

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Gio (02-27-2017),_jmcrook_ (01-29-2017),RamMac (01-29-2017),_Reinz_ (01-29-2017),_Sauzo_ (01-29-2017)

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## Reinz

Beautiful snake there Stearns.  :Smile: 

You are a very brave person. There is no way I'd let a "pissing machine" lay on my cloth covered couch!  :Very Happy:

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_Stearns84_ (01-29-2017)

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## Sauzo

Nice looking but dang he's small. Caesar is 37.5% SD 31.5% dwarf and he's about 5' at 8 months old. His dad was 5' and mom was 8-9'. He's a pig though and always wants dinner.

I put Caesar on my bed although only for a few mins at a time lol. He has never pissed outside his cage although now that I said that, I'm probably going to get pissed on lol.

Here's the most recent picture of him perching on his shelf.

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_Stearns84_ (01-29-2017)

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## Stearns84

> Nice looking but dang he's small. Caesar is 37.5% SD 31.5% dwarf and he's about 5' at 8 months old. His dad was 5' and mom was 8-9'. He's a pig though and always wants dinner.
> 
> I put Caesar on my bed although only for a few mins at a time lol. He has never pissed outside his cage although now that I said that, I'm probably going to get pissed on lol.
> 
> Here's the most recent picture of him perching on his shelf.


He pooped in the hallway once. Gene is not an overly heavy feeder. Strangely calm for a retic but I'm not complaining. We need to start a basic retic thread so we don't just clutter up specific threads. I take a billion pictures everyday.

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## jmcrook

lol I don't mind the "clutter" on here. Just keeping up conversations about our tiny giants.  :Smile:  
Stearns, If Gene is only 4.5' at a year and a half old he's probably fine with a T8. Like you said, if he outgrows it then you can get him something bigger and pass the T8 down to your ball python. Sounds like a good plan in my opinion. I am in hindsight wishing I had gotten something taller for Phyllis but I'll get her a larger enclosure eventually. She's still got plenty of room in a T8 and comes out for exercise a few times a week. 
Side note, gene is a dang good looking critter! 


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## Sauzo

> He pooped in the hallway once. Gene is not an overly heavy feeder. Strangely calm for a retic but I'm not complaining. We need to start a basic retic thread so we don't just clutter up specific threads. I take a billion pictures everyday.
> 
> Sent from my QTAQZ3 using Tapatalk


Yeah Caesar is really laid back as well but he LOVES to eat. He especially loves quails and chicks. Rats are so-so to him lol. He was eating every 4 days when I got him at 5 months old but I've pushed him to every week now but after about 5 days, he digs around and pushes around the front of the cage,

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## jmcrook

> Nice looking but dang he's small. Caesar is 37.5% SD 31.5% dwarf and he's about 5' at 8 months old. His dad was 5' and mom was 8-9'. He's a pig though and always wants dinner.
> 
> I put Caesar on my bed although only for a few mins at a time lol. He has never pissed outside his cage although now that I said that, I'm probably going to get pissed on lol.
> 
> Here's the most recent picture of him perching on his shelf.


Funny how the retic with the largest amount of mainland blood in this thread is the smallest and oldest of all of ours and mine is 100% SD and the longest hahah. 


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_Sauzo_ (01-29-2017)

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## RamMac

> I was so indecisive onwhich one to go with, so I went with the T8 and figured if he out grew it Id toss by female ball python in it.   Gene is a male Dwarf / SD (25% SD & 25% Jamp), his dad was around 7 and mom was around 8. Gene is at 19 months and maybe at 4.5 right now.He still gets a pretty large lump on a medium F/T rat. You think I should just order a larger one and use the T8 for the ball python?
> 
> These pictures were taken around Christmas.


Beautiful! I love platinum retics.

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## Sauzo

> Funny how the retic with the largest amount of mainland blood in this thread is the smallest and oldest of all of ours and mine is 100% SD and the longest hahah. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Haha I know.

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_jmcrook_ (01-29-2017)

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## Tigerhawk

He looks great. Please keep the pictures comming. I'm enjoying the conversation . Finally who did you buy him from? I'm thinking about getting one myself.

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## jmcrook

Tigerhawk,
Not sure where stearns got theirs but mine is from Daniel Solis at reptile avenue, sauzo and gio got theirs from vital exotics. I know of a guy that has some SD projects most of the time in various percentages. Shoot me a message if you have an idea what you're looking for and can't find it. No promise that I know where to find what you're interested in, but two pairs of eyes and ears can cover more ground than one.  :Smile:  I also have a buddy that's hopefully going to have breeding pairs of pure super dwarfs by next season. He's got adult females already and a yearling male on the way soon hopefully 


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## jmcrook

> Beautiful! I love platinum retics.


 It's a good looking snake for sure! Got any updated pics on your Tiger SD RamMac? His baby pics looked like he was going to grow up to be a pretty awesome critter

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## Sauzo

> It's a good looking snake for sure! Got any updated pics on your Tiger SD RamMac? His baby pics looked like he was going to grow up to be a pretty awesome critter


I can post pics of Vicky lounging in Roseys cage with Rosey if you want Jmcrook!! I had both their cages open since they like to hang out with just their faces sitting on the litter dam. Well I hoped on the computer to do some stuff and when I went to go see what was up, I caught Vicky sitting in Roseys cage on the shelf and Rosey was sitting in her spot on the heater with her face resting on the litter dam lol. I swear the snakes play music cages all the time. I caught Dottie in Vickys cage once and Vicky in Roseys cage and Rosey sitting in her cage with her face staring at the floor lol. Crazy snakes.

But in all seriousness, what happened to RamMacs retic? I've posted the bejebus out of Caesar. I think people are tired of seeing him lol. And until they make SD pieds, I don't see myself getting a full size retic as atm I am on the edge with getting the Pucallpa BCC and haven't even mentioned a female sharp snow girlfriend for Rango.....we'll cross that bridge when needed lol.

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_jmcrook_ (01-30-2017)

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## Stearns84

> He looks great. Please keep the pictures comming. I'm enjoying the conversation . Finally who did you buy him from? I'm thinking about getting one myself.


I got Gene from a friend who had a few to many snakes.  I have a friend on FB that breeds 100% SD, Brian Cimala.

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## jmcrook

Well I think it's safe to say that Phyllis likes her new bowl/swimming pool haha. She's been in there since I got home today and hasn't left yet. 


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_Reinz_ (01-30-2017)

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## Sauzo

Lol wtf!! I buy all my snakes the fancy camo bowls and none of them sit in them!! The only snakes who likes water is Luna who loves to sit in her bowl.

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_jmcrook_ (01-30-2017)

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## Zincubus

> [QU OTE=o.r hill;2493903]The ones in that package looked teeny.  Maybe two per oven stuffer chicken leg full of meat.  I share your concern that feeding featureless (and gutless) food items may shortchange them.    I alternate F/T rats and poultry.  I get the impression that the rats keep them fuller feeling longer.   Still I like having the alternative.


...    

Maybe for an occasional change !?

It's something that crossed my mind as I our local Tesco we can get a whole uncooked chicken for a quid / dollar LESS than the local snake shop charges me for a large rat but it just seems such a waste giving a whole chicken to a snake !?[/QUOTE]

I'm in the doghouse again ..   I bought a large frozen rat and a jumbo frozen rat from the snake store then the wife came home with two chickens from Tesco for £5 .99 !!

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## jmcrook

So today may possibly be Phyllis's 1st birthday. I know her clutch started pipping a year ago today and they were all out of the eggs by feb 14th. In celebration she shed the day before so as to be wearing her best dress haha! 


Getting quite large and muscular. Hadn't had her out in about a week due to her shed cycle and she also missed a meal because of  shed. So yesterday when I went to get her out and clean up her skin she attacked a roll of paper towels that I was using as a shield haha. Bit and constricted a full roll. Very quickly dropped it and uncoiled, I got a hook and a hand under her and she was totally chill. What a freak lol 
Thawing her a medium rat right now and she'll probably get Geoffrey's small rat too because he is still fasting. Lost almost no weight but still not eating. She's been watching the "food door" like this for probably 3 hours hah




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_AlexisFitzy_ (02-11-2017),_Sauzo_ (02-11-2017)

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## ShaneSilva

She's looking good! Regret not picking up that kalatoa when I had the chance

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_jmcrook_ (02-11-2017)

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## Sauzo

She's getting huge and looks good. She's on medium rats? Dang, now I feel like Caesar is a fatty being on large rats. Mediums do nothing for him now  :Sad:

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## jmcrook

> She's getting huge and looks good. She's on medium rats? Dang, now I feel like Caesar is a fatty being on large rats. Mediums do nothing for him now


Thanks man! She crushes a medium no problem and hardly has a lump any more. As we speak she's eating Geoffrey's 75g small after her 110g medium from her water bowl, which she immediately climbed into after her first rat. I think some of her pushing may have been protests for a larger bowl and a larger hide. 

She could easily take a large rat but I'm keeping her on a diet for right now so she hopefully doesn't exceed 9-10' before her second birthday. I may move to larger soon but then she's going to 10 day intervals whether she likes it or not. Tough love Phyllis haha


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## Sauzo

Haha good luck with that. I tried tough love on Caesar and he got 2 scrapes on his chin from it. I've pretty much conceded that Caesar is going to be 10' lol. The large rats are the only thing that keeps him quiet. Anything smaller and he is saying "look at me!!" by smushing his face into the left side, right side, bottom and even the top of the glass door.....yes he even braces himself on the lower dam and smushes his face into the top dam haha.

But the plus side is he has been completely quiet the past 3 days. He did play under his paper towels though and did look over at me when I was straightening them out this morning but he didn't seem really hungry. I'm actually liking the paper towels for him to tell you the truth. Makes clean up easy as you know, retics piss all the time and funny part is he seems to actually enjoy the paper towels as he can slide around under them and stuff. I'll definitely keep the boas, BP and dumerils on ReptiChips but debating on Caesar.

Oh and 1 other weird thing is when he was on aspen and ReptiChips, he used his hides a lot. Now on paper towels he doesn't use his hides. He shoves them around but is much happier to just sit out more now.

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## jmcrook

If she starts pushing again I'll just fill the gap in the door track again haha. When she gets a bigger cage I'm gonna see if AP will make an insert so that the bottom door track is flush with the highest point of the litter dam. Then there's nowhere to jam their faces into 


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## jmcrook

Hadn't posted Phyllis in a little while. This picture makes her look way small. She's been perfectly content to just hang out on my shoulders for like half an hour. Such a calm animal outside of her cage. She took a shot at the hook and then wildly in the air as I was getting her out but then chill as can be once she's being handled.


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_CALM Pythons_ (02-26-2017),cayley (02-26-2017),_cletus_ (02-27-2017),Gio (02-27-2017),_Sauzo_ (02-26-2017),_Stearns84_ (02-26-2017)

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## Tigerhawk

She's just keeping you on your toes. :Very Happy:

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_jmcrook_ (02-26-2017)

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## Sauzo

Dude!! Phyllis is just a thick as Caesar!! Shoelace my butt lol. Might be the pics but I'd bet she is thicker than Caesar. Caesar is about 1.5" in diameter at his fattest part, maybe 2" tops. Looks good though. Lol wish Caesar sat quiet like that haha. He used to be fairly quiet as a baby. Maybe he now more used to me but that guy never sits still now. That 2nd pic, Phyllis looks like she has a pretty burly head. Looks a lot bigger than Caesar but sometimes pics can distort stuff.

Lol guess it's reversed now. You got the calm retic and I got the spazz one who always wants move move move!! So maybe females are more laid back than males haha.

It will be interesting to see if Gerald's temperament changes when he hits breeding age with a female around. I've heard some males get 'crazy' during breeding season. Heck will be interesting to see what all of our males do when breeding age comes. 

And yeah Caesar took a shot at my shadow in the cage when he was hungry haha. Heck even my little worm, Rango took a shot at the cage wall when he saw my finger shadow on it. That little worm is always hungry too. Heck all my snakes always want food except Dottie. Everyone instantly perks up when the doors are open.

Anyways, Phyllis looks like she's filling out nicely and mellowing out.

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_jmcrook_ (02-26-2017)

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## jmcrook

Well I went and jinxed myself. Accidentally bumped her nose just barely right now and she latched on to my forearm like a vice. Finally let go and as I was going put her back in her cage she went towards the bite mark and started to open her mouth on it like she was going to eat my f*****g my arm. Post pics or no? It's already bruising lol


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## Stearns84

> Well I went and jinxed myself. Accidentally bumped her nose just barely right now and she latched on to my forearm like a vice. Finally let go and as I was going put her back in her cage she went towards the bite mark and started to open her mouth on it like she was going to eat my f*****g my arm. Post pics or no? It's already bruising lol
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Let's see them!


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## jmcrook

A couple seconds after she let go, still had some crazy strong coils gripping my hands together. 

After I cleaned it up. All six rows of teeth clearly represented 

Never get too comfortable folks. Show respect and read your animals closely. SHE (stupid handling error) wasn't paying attention to where her head was and spooked her and she responded accordingly. Can't blame her. I'm sure we'll both have our guards up a bit for interactions in the near future 


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Gio (02-27-2017),_Sauzo_ (02-27-2017),_Snoopyslim_ (02-27-2017),_Stearns84_ (02-26-2017),_tttaylorrr_ (02-27-2017)

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## Stearns84

Wow

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## FlynnTheBP

She is beautiful! Sorry she bit you...it happens sometimes. I love retics and I always wondered about their temperament. Is she usually docile?

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## jmcrook

> She is beautiful! Sorry she bit you...it happens sometimes. I love retics and I always wondered about their temperament. Is she usually docile?


Yeah she's usually super chill. Very food oriented and a bit cage defensive sometimes but generally very calm once she's out and about. 


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## Sauzo

> A couple seconds after she let go, still had some crazy strong coils gripping my hands together. 
> 
> After I cleaned it up. All six rows of teeth clearly represented 
> 
> Never get too comfortable folks. Show respect and read your animals closely. SHE (stupid handling error) wasn't paying attention to where her head was and spooked her and she responded accordingly. Can't blame her. I'm sure we'll both have our guards up a bit for interactions in the near future 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's epic man. It looks like a tattoo where they forgot to use ink lol. Well dang, I'm the only one left who hasn't been pissed on or now bit lol. Actually I think Cloud hasn't been bit or pissed on either lol. Not sure about Gene.

That's wild that you booped her snoot and she went ballistic on you lol. I've booped Caesar a ton as he never sits still. Heck I turned around when feeding the snakes next to him and slammed into his head with my arm lol. Felt bad but he wasn't hurt and just backed up a little and looked at me lol.

That is a pretty big bite lol. And lol, yeah I'm sure both of you are going to be gun shy for a bit. When Caesar opened his mouth and hissed at the snake hook, I kind of got scared every time I reached in to pick him up for a little bit.

You know why she bit you!!?? Cause you aren't feeding her enough!!!! Lol j/k, my god people don't take this all serious and jump down my throat  :Razz: 

Anyways, at least you got the bite out of the way so next time she tags you, you will know what to expect lol.

Oh and off topic, I still think Phyllis is a lot thicker and bigger than Caesar using your forearm to compare her thick part.

Oh and I love how after she bit you, she thought about it and was like 'well since I already started this, I might as just finish it' as she decided to sample you again hahaha.

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_jmcrook_ (02-27-2017)

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## Tigerhawk

Yup she's keeping you on your toes. She got you good. Sorry that happened to you.

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_jmcrook_ (02-27-2017)

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## jmcrook

Keep snakes for long enough and it's not a question of if, but rather, when you will be bitten. 4th or 5th time in over 20 years but the only time so far that I've had a bite and coil where I was kept wrapped up for a solid minute or two. Definitely wasn't fun but all things considered it wasn't horrible. Just remained calm and waited for her to eventually give up after dunking her under the faucet did nothing. Definitely freaked me out when she casually went back to he bite area as though it were food and started opening her mouth on it again. Might pick up a bottle of cheapo vodka to keep handy for  helping induce a bite release for these scenarios in the future if/when they arise. 


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_Snoopyslim_ (02-27-2017)

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## Sauzo

Wow, didn't even release with water? My BP latched onto my finger like it was a skinny scrawny rat and tried to drag my hand into her hide. I dunked her head with my finger in her water bowl and she released. Never been coiled by anyone though. All my bites were just quick tags except the BP but that was my fault. 

I'm not looking forward to Caesar coiling me lol.

So whats Gerald up to? He just calmly watching as Phyllis tried to eat you and thought 'dang man!! Not sure if I want her as a girlfriend, she might try to eat me too!!'?   :Razz:

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_jmcrook_ (02-27-2017),_Stearns84_ (02-27-2017)

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## Snoopyslim

WOW that must have hurt like a son-of-a-*****!!!

Sorry that happened but I appreciate your words of wisdom to other owners though.  I was bit by my Valentine for the first time awhile ago - my fault - food response bite - she came out of shed and was especially hungry, bit the first thing that came near her face (my finger).  I held her tail so she could not wrap...she stayed for about 2 minutes, I was just about to dunk her in water when she went to bite deeper but was able to get my finger out.  Needless to say I now feed in tank and she's back to normal.  I think I became too comfortable since she has never ever been aggressive and I took that for granted.

Must have been frightening to have been coiled...lucky she's not full grown.  I can't imagine how painful that actually was...I found being bit by a ball more annoying/burning pain but the jaws on a rectic...yikes.

Safe future handling and thanks for sharing I LOVE reading/looking at rectics...

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_jmcrook_ (02-27-2017)

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## jmcrook

> Wow, didn't even release with water? My BP latched onto my finger like it was a skinny scrawny rat and tried to drag my hand into her hide. I dunked her head with my finger in her water bowl and she released. Never been coiled by anyone though. All my bites were just quick tags except the BP but that was my fault. 
> 
> I'm not looking forward to Caesar coiling me lol.
> 
> So whats Gerald up to? He just calmly watching as Phyllis tried to eat you and thought 'dang man!! Not sure if I want her as a girlfriend, she might try to eat me too!!'?


Hahah! Gerald is in shed right now so he's being a recluse in his warm hide with his jet black eyes in a nice hue of blue  :Wink:  can't wait to see what a fresh paint job looks like on him!
I don't know when/if he's going to be paired with Phyllis. Maybe someday, but Gerald has probably got a couple of dates set up with some older pure SD girls late this year. I'll keep everyone posted on the development of 75% SD platinum retic babies when that happens. My friend that breeds reptiles professionally said about Gerald, "I've got a couple ladies that would love to meet him!" Haha


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## jmcrook

> WOW that must have hurt like a son-of-a-*****!!!
> 
> Sorry that happened but I appreciate your words of wisdom to other owners though.  I was bit by my Valentine for the first time awhile ago - my fault - food response bite - she came out of shed and was especially hungry, bit the first thing that came near her face (my finger).  I held her tail so she could not wrap...she stayed for about 2 minutes, I was just about to dunk her in water when she went to bite deeper but was able to get my finger out.  Needless to say I now feed in tank and she's back to normal.  I think I became too comfortable since she has never ever been aggressive and I took that for granted.
> 
> Must have been frightening to have been coiled...lucky she's not full grown.  I can't imagine how painful that actually was...I found being bit by a ball more annoying/burning pain but the jaws on a rectic...yikes.
> 
> Safe future handling and thanks for sharing I LOVE reading/looking at rectics...


Certainly didn't feel good but in all honesty, not quite as bad as I would have expected. It was mostly how she was pulling back with her head while her teeth were sunk deep into my forearm that caused the most discomfort. You know, how they kind of pull their head in the opposite direction of their coils a lot of the time to latch their teeth in better? That was the part that sucked the most but it was more the initial "oh s***! She's got me!" that made it seem worse in the moment. Once she established that she was hanging on for a min I just kind of accepted it and stayed calm waiting for her to let go. The blood in the pic makes it look way more gnarly than it was. Needless to say I would not be thrilled about this happening when she's 2-3' longer and weighs 2-3x as much.  
Like you said, never be "too comfortable" and even if you are, don't take that for granted. On a long enough timeline everyone gets bit eventually. Par for the course if you're going to be a lifelong snake keeper 


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_Snoopyslim_ (02-27-2017)

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## cletus

Looks like you got tagged pretty good!

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_jmcrook_ (02-28-2017)

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## Snoopyslim

> Certainly didn't feel good but in all honesty, not quite as bad as I would have expected. It was mostly how she was pulling back with her head while her teeth were sunk deep into my forearm that caused the most discomfort. You know, how they kind of pull their head in the opposite direction of their coils a lot of the time to latch their teeth in better? That was the part that sucked the most but it was more the initial "oh s***! She's got me!" that made it seem worse in the moment. Once she established that she was hanging on for a min I just kind of accepted it and stayed calm waiting for her to let go. The blood in the pic makes it look way more gnarly than it was. Needless to say I would not be thrilled about this happening when she's 2-3' longer and weighs 2-3x as much.  
> Like you said, never be "too comfortable" and even if you are, don't take that for granted. On a long enough timeline everyone gets bit eventually. Par for the course if you're going to be a lifelong snake keeper 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yasss! Their teeth are amazing really, like fish hooks! Thats what it felt like to me and the more a prey squirms the deeper they sink in.  I totally know what you mean - I had that oh s*** moment but turned suddenly calm - my poor boyfriend was terrified hahaha almost happy to have it happened, wasn't as bad as one would think...kinda neat in a way to experience how their extraordinary teeth work.

 Glad you're both okay!

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## Gio

That's a pretty good one. Had 3 of the 4 here get me. 

I have a bottle of old school Listerene in the snake room. 

I'll get tagged again I'm sure.  

Sounds like you handled it like a pro!!

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_jmcrook_ (02-27-2017)

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## jmcrook

Phyllis got her first large 260g rat just now and pounded it like it was nobody's business hah! Maybe we can stretch her feedings to every 10 days? We'll see how long this keeps her content. 



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Gio (03-04-2017),_Sauzo_ (03-04-2017),_Stearns84_ (03-04-2017)

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## Stearns84

> Phyllis got her first large 260g rat just now and pounded it like it was nobody's business hah! Maybe we can stretch her feedings to every 10 days? We'll see how long this keeps her content. 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I really love this picture. With the decor in the enclosure, it's amazing.

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_jmcrook_ (03-04-2017)

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## Sauzo

Probably. I know since moving Caesar up in size, he is fairly quiet now. I mean he comes out and wanders around but doesn't seem to push much if at all now. 

Oh and kind of off topic, I used serp widget again today for Caesar and from what it says, he is 5.1'. And on another note, I talked to Ali today and added another T8 and stand and she said she could wrap it all up and ship it to me late next week!!! I cant wait. Gonna post some pics of the # T10s next to the 3 T8s. Now I just need to add 3 T25s next to that and I'll have my snake monolith!! Sorry to steal the light for a sec.

And retics can eat like no one's business haha although little Rango is putting up a good fight. That little 30" boa worm can pound food too haha. He's like a mini Caesar and always perks up when I come by thinking its dinner time haha.

And yeah, nice set up. Too complex for me. My snakes get hides and water bowl. That's it lol. I'm such a bad dad  :Razz:

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_jmcrook_ (03-04-2017)

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## jmcrook

> Probably. I know since moving Caesar up in size, he is fairly quiet now. I mean he comes out and wanders around but doesn't seem to push much if at all now. 
> 
> Oh and kind of off topic, I used serp widget again today for Caesar and from what it says, he is 5.1'. And on another note, I talked to Ali today and added another T8 and stand and she said she could wrap it all up and ship it to me late next week!!! I cant wait. Gonna post some pics of the # T10s next to the 3 T8s. Now I just need to add 3 T25s next to that and I'll have my snake monolith!! Sorry to steal the light for a sec.
> 
> And retics can eat like no one's business haha although little Rango is putting up a good fight. That little 30" boa worm can pound food too haha. He's like a mini Caesar and always perks up when I come by thinking its dinner time haha.
> 
> And yeah, nice set up. Too complex for me. My snakes get hides and water bowl. That's it lol. I'm such a bad dad


Yeah her next cage is going to be a bit more minimal. She's got a hide, branch, and bowl currently. Looks nice but can be a pain trying to get her out of the enclosure when needed if she's under or behind the branch. Going to go with the t25 eventually with a shelf and LEDs and locking doors.


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## Sauzo

> Yeah her next cage is going to be a bit more minimal. She's got a hide, branch, and bowl currently. Looks nice but can be a pain trying to get her out of the enclosure when needed if she's under or behind the branch. Going to go with the t25 eventually with a shelf and LEDs and locking doors.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Yeah same here but I also opt with the flexwatt as I keep my house pretty warm. I got an RHP in my Pro-Line right now and dang its a pain lol. To get a 88F hot spot, I have to keep the cool side around 84F. Pretty much no temp gradient for me since my house is too warm. But yeah, paying a little extra to just have a plug and play cage is worth it to me especially when you are already paying over $700, who cares about the extra $20 lol.

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_jmcrook_ (03-04-2017),_Stearns84_ (03-04-2017)

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## jmcrook

> Yeah same here but I also opt with the flexwatt as I keep my house pretty warm. I got an RHP in my Pro-Line right now and dang its a pain lol. To get a 88F hot spot, I have to keep the cool side around 84F. Pretty much no temp gradient for me since my house is too warm. But yeah, paying a little extra to just have a plug and play cage is worth it to me especially when you are already paying over $700, who cares about the extra $20 lol.


Yeah in the summer I don't have the greatest temp gradients but they're not unacceptable. Like 90-82. If the temp was n the room goes under 68-70 though my cool side temps don't go over 73-74. The room basically has to be around the 72-75 range for the RHP to do the trick. A tad annoying because I told bob at pro products that my room temps ranged anywhere from mid-upper 60s to mid upper 70s and recommended the 65 watt panel. Can't really complain because it's still better by leaps and bounds over any bulb source heating option and doesn't kill the humidity 


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## Sauzo

> Yeah in the summer I don't have the greatest temp gradients but they're not unacceptable. Like 90-82. If the temp was n the room goes under 68-70 though my cool side temps don't go over 73-74. The room basically has to be around the 72-75 range for the RHP to do the trick. A tad annoying because I told bob at pro products that my room temps ranged anywhere from mid-upper 60s to mid upper 70s and recommended the 65 watt panel. Can't really complain because it's still better by leaps and bounds over any bulb source heating option and doesn't kill the humidity 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah I'm using the Ph3 which is the 65 watt Pro Products also. And yeah, if the room is kept cooler, RHPs are awesome but if you keep the room warmer, RHPs don't really do the trick well.

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## jmcrook

My issue was that it got the hotspot heated well but didn't get the cool side up to the upper 70s-80* if the room got cooler than 70. I know he suggests to set the thermostat probe on the cool side and set to 80 but I just feel like the hot spot would be getting scorched to get it in that range. 


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## Sauzo

> My issue was that it got the hotspot heated well but didn't get the cool side up to the upper 70s-80* if the room got cooler than 70. I know he suggests to set the thermostat probe on the cool side and set to 80 but I just feel like the hot spot would be getting scorched to get it in that range. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah that's how I got mine set too. The probe on the cool side but I have to set the cool side to 84F for it comes on enough to actually create a hot spot haha. You probably need one size up. This was my first RHP. I've learned since then that if I do use another one, I'll be sure to order one size up. Better to have too much and not need it than too little and need it. That's why I like the flexwatt, it's pretty much just one wattage per say so I just turn it up by about 5F during the winter.

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## jmcrook

> Yeah that's how I got mine set too. The probe on the cool side but I have to set the cool side to 84F for it comes on enough to actually create a hot spot haha. You probably need one size up. This was my first RHP. I've learned since then that if I do use another one, I'll be sure to order one size up. Better to have too much and not need it than too little and need it. That's why I like the flexwatt, it's pretty much just one wattage per say so I just turn it up by about 5F during the winter.


The thing is the panels have never gone above 75% power or so, and still never gets the cool side to 80 when the hotspot is at 90 but that's only if the room goes below 70*. I had wanted the next size up for the same reasons you've mentioned but Bob said that you don't actually want to go that route because then the panel will cycle too frequently and in the event that the thermostat failed then you're that much more likely to cook your snake. 
I have the probe hanging just behind the RHP halfway down the height of the cage set at 86 and gets me a 90 hot spot on the floor. But if the room goes under 70* the cool side falls below 75*. I just decided to heat the room with an oil radiator set really low and it keeps everything steady. And makes my studio/snake room the coziest room in the house when it's winter haha! More incentive to be in there and get work done or rather be distracted watching snakes hah


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_Sauzo_ (03-04-2017)

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## Sauzo

> The thing is the panels have never gone above 75% power or so, and still never gets the cool side to 80 when the hotspot is at 90 but that's only if the room goes below 70*. I had wanted the next size up for the same reasons you've mentioned but Bob said that you don't actually want to go that route because then the panel will cycle too frequently and in the event that the thermostat failed then you're that much more likely to cook your snake. 
> I have the probe hanging just behind the RHP halfway down the height of the cage set at 86 and gets me a 90 hot spot on the floor. But if the room goes under 70* the cool side falls below 75*. I just decided to heat the room with an oil radiator set really low and it keeps everything steady. And makes my studio/snake room the coziest room in the house when it's winter haha! More incentive to be in there and get work done or rather be distracted watching snakes hah
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hmm Bob does have a point. But running a Herpstat, even if it failed, it would fail on the off position so cooking the snake would be a moot point.

Same here with the oil filled radiator. I use one in the snake room when it gets really cold but my snakes are in a finished basement which is half underground so the temps stay pretty consistent. I just turn it on to low to just knock the edge off. I mean even when it was below freezing here a few months back, the coldest my bottom cage got was 77F on the cool side which is still fine and Rosey seemed to like to sit on that side lol. So I really didn't 'need' it but used it anyways.

I couldn't imagine my house below 70F. I'd probably die myself before the snakes haha. I keep it a nice toasty 78-80F  :Very Happy:

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_jmcrook_ (03-04-2017),_Stearns84_ (03-05-2017)

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## Stearns84

I have the same concerns, Bob said to put the probe have way down the wall on the cool side. Seems like a concern with the Hotspot getting too hot.  When Gene's shows up do you suggest cold side, hot side or middle?

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## Sauzo

> I have the same concerns, Bob said to put the probe have way down the wall on the cool side. Seems like a concern with the Hotspot getting too hot.  When Gene's shows up do you suggest cold side, hot side or middle?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Me personally, I would suggest on the cool side if your room is kept colder. You really don't have to worry about the hot side unless you got a rock directly under the RHP or something else that will soak up and hold the heat to the extreme. Something like a plastic hide wont get hot enough assuming your RHP isn't on 100% 24/7. Gene will go as far as he wants under the RHP and once hot will go to the cool side. That's why you want to maintain the cool side so he has somewhere to cool off.

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_Stearns84_ (03-06-2017)

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## jmcrook

Phyllis got herself a new paint job last night. Took a huge piss while she was out of her cage for a while but still no poo, and she last ate a large 260g rat 11 days ago. I think the larger meals are going to keep her a bit more calm. 

I'm guessing somewhere between 6-7' now


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Gio (03-14-2017),_Sauzo_ (03-14-2017)

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## Sauzo

Phyllis looks good and yeah I noticed since I've been feeding Caesar 200g ish rats, he has mellowed out a lot and isn't nearly as spazz inside the cage.

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_jmcrook_ (03-14-2017)

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## Stearns84

Damn I really love those enclosures! Phyllis is looking great. I really like her back pattern

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_jmcrook_ (03-14-2017)

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## EL-Ziggy

Phyllis is looking mighty fine there JMC  :Wink: . Which enclosures are those and are they 6 footers? They look like AP cages but I'm not positive.

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## jmcrook

> Phyllis is looking mighty fine there JMC . Which enclosures are those and are they 6 footers? They look like AP cages but I'm not positive.


Thanks ziggy! Yeah they're AP T8s. Looking into getting a custom T25 for Phyllis sometime soonish


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## Gio

She looks great as usual. The cage looks great too. 

I'm close to ordering my 6 foot Monster Cage.

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_jmcrook_ (03-15-2017)

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## Ax01

awesome!

i just signed up on a list for a 100% pure Kalatoa SD Retic.   :Smile:

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Gio (03-17-2017),_jmcrook_ (03-17-2017),_Stearns84_ (03-17-2017)

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## jmcrook

Well, Phyllis cooperated and crawled in a straight line next to a tape measure for me yesterday (no pic of that unfortunately). She is barely shy of 7' now at 13.5 months old. And made of pure muscle and beauty. 


These are from a day or two previous when it was almost 80* out. The first pic is with her tail at about my lower chest/upper stomach height and I'm only 5'4". That sidewalk is about 28-30" wide too, for a bit of a scale reference. 
Excuse the messy bathroom, had her out and I sensed a piss coming and that's the only room in the apt without carpet lol. Two seconds later unleashed a flood and a few huge urates that hit the floor sounding like rocks. 
 here's an idea as to how thick she is. Close to 2" diameter at her widest girth. 
 curled up in the bottom of her holding tub while I was cleaning her cage. The bottom inside dimensions of that tub are about 18"x15" to give an idea how much real estate she takes up in the cage. 
Crazy to look back and remember this same animal being about 2' a year ago. She's grown a solid 5' since she's been with me and is still the most amazing animal I've ever kept. Looking forward to 20-30 more years of this critter!


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Gio (03-26-2017),Mike17 (03-26-2017),_Sauzo_ (03-26-2017)

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## Gio

She looks beautiful, and you look pretty cool. Much younger than I am LOL!

Keep this going as you were doing this before Sauzo and me when it comes to this retic business.

ALL of the latest retic folks here are a little bit of a family.

Sizes, experiences, and SD X Dwarf and mainland percentages are important topics to be shared.

I've always thought Phyillis was pretty in pattern and coloration!

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_jmcrook_ (03-26-2017),_Sauzo_ (03-26-2017)

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## Sauzo

Look at that baby face on JM!!! I think he's younger than Phyllis!!  :Wink:

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Gio (03-26-2017),_jmcrook_ (03-26-2017)

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## jmcrook

> Look at that baby face on JM!!! I think he's younger than Phyllis!!


Well I guess that's better than looking old for my age hahahah 


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Gio (03-26-2017),_Sauzo_ (03-27-2017)

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## jmcrook

Haven't updated on Phyllis in some time. Her highness shed today and looked quite happy to change into her new dress and proceed to take a swim. 

Why, hello there!


Taking a dip. Does this every single shed immediately after she finishes 
I think she's a sturdy 7' now. She's getting more weight than length now for the most part so she may slow down on length but we'll see, I suppose...

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Gio (04-21-2017),_Sauzo_ (04-21-2017)

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## Sauzo

Lol none of my snakes like to go into their water. I get them the big dishes and all they do is sit on top of it or rest their head on the rim of it.

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Gio (04-21-2017),_jmcrook_ (04-21-2017)

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## Gio

> Lol none of my snakes like to go into their water. I get them the big dishes and all they do is sit on top of it or rest their head on the rim of it.


Looking great and I love the real, natural pattern. Good update.

Sauzo, LOL,,, I have the opposite. Wallace uses his water bowl as a toilet. In a way it is very helpful and in a way it isn't. Actual cage cleaning is minimal, which is superb. But I'm changing water a few times a day which isn't.

When the big cage gets here I'm going to upsize his water dish again to the largest naturalistic item I can find and call it good. At some point he's not going to fit at all.

JM,

I looked at some of the earlier pictures again and she look great outside! How does she handle if you just set her on the floor or the ground?

I always have to have Wallace wrapped on some prop item, or on me. If he is on the ground, he's taking off LOL!

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## jmcrook

> Looking great and I love the real, natural pattern. Good update.
> 
> I looked at some of the earlier pictures again and she look great outside! How does she handle if you just set her on the floor or the ground?
> 
> I always have to have Wallace wrapped on some prop item, or on me. If he is on the ground, he's taking off LOL!


Thanks buddy! I've never let her really be totally free on the floor for more than a half a minute without keeping a hand on her but she's pretty chill about it. Just wants to explore everything and knock anything she can over hahaha! She's never made a run for it that I can recall. Gerald however... I feel like he'd be gone in the blink of an eye if I set him on the floor for any length of time more than 1/4 of a second lol. Even when Phyllis was small, I could let her stretch along the back of the couch and she would just curiously check everything out, never tried to take off. This is her a month or so ago, hands free for a minute outside the back door when it was an 80* day in march.
Doesn't wander far but then again I don't really allow her the chance to. If I turned my back for a second I'm sure she'd be gone or get herself into trouble lol. For size reference that sidewalk is about 28"-30"



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Gio (04-21-2017)

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## jmcrook

Getting big! 


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_AbsoluteApril_ (05-08-2017),_Reinz_ (05-08-2017),_rock_ (05-08-2017)

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## Gio

Long, but excellent girth.

Just how they are supposed to be. I wonder if she's going to top out in another 2 feet.

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## jmcrook

> Long, but excellent girth.
> 
> Just how they are supposed to be. I wonder if she's going to top out in another 2 feet.


I'm wondering the same thing... she'd be a seriously impressive snake at 9'. Probably would be the size of my forearm and a good 20+lbs


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_Stearns84_ (04-22-2017)

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## Gio

> I'm wondering the same thing... she'd be a seriously impressive snake at 9'. Probably would be the size of my forearm and a good 20+lbs
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


WOW, a 20 pounder!

Is the Kalatoa locale the smallest of the SD group I can't remember? How old she now?

I'm wondering if she will be larger than Wallace in the end.

I enjoy her updates.

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_jmcrook_ (05-08-2017)

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## jmcrook

> WOW, a 20 pounder!
> 
> Is the Kalatoa locale the smallest of the SD group I can't remember? How old she now?
> 
> I'm wondering if she will be larger than Wallace in the end.
> 
> I enjoy her updates.


From what I've been able to research, either kalatoa or madu is supposedly the smallest of the locales, though according to Cody even a pure kalatoa female has the potential to reach a solid 9'. 
I've got a breeder friend that has two pure SD females, about 8', and said they weighed 20lbs when he got them in. They're from his previously owned wild caught breeding stock and said that he's got them thinned out a bit now. Previous owner fed the snot out of them he said haha. I'd guess their proper weight should be in the neighborhood of 12-15lbs
She's probably going to end up a sizeable snake, though Caesar might give her a run for that title lol. I think your conservative feeding schedule with Wallace is going to keep him a very lean and well rounded specimen. I've got a feeling Phyllis will be the biggest of our group even being pure SD, but she is the only female of all of them. Gene may have a growth spurt after graduating to large rats though...


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## Gio

> From what I've been able to research, either kalatoa or madu is supposedly the smallest of the locales, though according to Cody even a pure kalatoa female has the potential to reach a solid 9'. 
> I've got a breeder friend that has two pure SD females, about 8', and said they weighed 20lbs when he got them in. They're from his previously owned wild caught breeding stock and said that he's got them thinned out a bit now. Previous owner fed the snot out of them he said haha. I'd guess their proper weight should be in the neighborhood of 12-15lbs
> She's probably going to end up a sizeable snake, though Caesar might give her a run for that title lol. I think your conservative feeding schedule with Wallace is going to keep him a very lean and well rounded specimen. I've got a feeling Phyllis will be the biggest of our group even being pure SD, but she is the only female of all of them. Gene may have a growth spurt after graduating to large rats though...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I agree, and Caesar seems to have a fair amount of mainland in him. If that does kick in and he still eats frequently you certainly could get bigger. Kris seemed to think he'd level out though. I actually thing Caesar's end size was quoted to be even smaller than Wallace's. The tiger gene in Wallace is know to make huge animals so it may play a role. I'm really happy so far though.

I looked into Cody's vids again as I do from time to time and I did see his pure female SD's had potential to get up there in size, but nothing unmanageable IMO.

Is Phyllis over 2 years old now?

She looks really good. Perfect IMO.

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## jmcrook

> I agree, and Caesar seems to have a fair amount of mainland in him. If that does kick in and he still eats frequently you certainly could get bigger. Kris seemed to think he'd level out though. I actually thing Caesar's end size was quoted to be even smaller than Wallace's. The tiger gene in Wallace is know to make huge animals so it may play a role. I'm really happy so far though.
> 
> I looked into Cody's vids again as I do from time to time and I did see his pure female SD's had potential to get up there in size, but nothing unmanageable IMO.
> 
> Is Phyllis over 2 years old now?
> 
> She looks really good. Perfect IMO.


No Phyllis is 15 months old this weekend/early next week. I've never seen an animal grow as fast as that snake. She was 59grams when she got here at 3 weeks old and is now tipping he scale at 2200grams+. Just under 2' when she arrived and now right about 7'. 5' of growth in a little over a year! Wow!
She's definitely the most interesting to handle of the three snakes here. Very curious but not squirrelly like Gerald. She has a conviction and decision about her movement that commands some respect when she's out. Just don't move too fast around the sharp end and she's a joy to work with hahah! I'm expecting another foot or so of length and then some body building from her as she progresses. She's gonna need every bit of that t25 by the time it's ready 


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Gio (05-08-2017)

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## Gio

OK right,

I think we all pulled the trigger on these right after you got her. I believe your first couple of posts got me re-thinking the decision to get one. I dabbled, then was dead set on another coastal carpet or a Suri BCC.

I'm terrible at keeping to one species however so I was itching for something different again.

I read everything I can about the species.
http://reticulatedpython.info/index.html

It amazes me that some people really think ALL retics are huge and that the SD/dwarf locale stuff in marketing to sell more although those views may be changing.

I'm sure there are some scammers out there that will sell anything for a $$.

Interesting research/science shows the island populations could be considered a separate species.

http://reticulatedpython.info/me/pap...ic%20paper.pdf

Just like boa constrictors, and carpet pythons, there are locality retics that exhibit unique traits.

Fun species for me.

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_jmcrook_ (05-08-2017)

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## Sauzo

I'm planning for 10' for Caesar just in case although like i said, he seems to have mellowed out on his food drive and is pretty happy with a large rat every 7-10 days. I mean he still pops out of the hide like a jack in the box when i open the door or sometimes even if i tap on the bottom track. He doesn't seem to push too much anymore.

BTW if you are looking for 50% SD morphs, Shannon Roepke just had a bunch of stuff and put them up for sale. Lots of Platinum, Motley, Tiger stuff. I almost bought the Platinum Motley female 50% SD she had for sale but instead bought Caesar.

Once i get the 3 T25s and get everything set up, I'll have 2 T10s laying around which i possibly might fill with the Peruvian BCC and maybe a SD ultra Ivory or sharp snow bci. I do love Caesar but honestly I'm a boa guy as you can tell by the 4 boas i got already lol.

And i think Caesar has the most mainland out of all of our retics except Gene. But Caesar is also tiger so that combined with mainland is what is probably playing into his size. Good thing he is mellow and not cage defensive at all.

Plus Kris told me when i got him that Caesar LOVES to eat anything anytime so he said i would have no problems getting him to eat plus he said he was very handleable.

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## Gio

> I'm planning for 10' for Caesar just in case although like i said, he seems to have mellowed out on his food drive and is pretty happy with a large rat every 7-10 days. I mean he still pops out of the hide like a jack in the box when i open the door or sometimes even if i tap on the bottom track. He doesn't seem to push too much anymore.
> 
> BTW if you are looking for 50% SD morphs, Shannon Roepke just had a bunch of stuff and put them up for sale. Lots of Platinum, Motley, Tiger stuff. I almost bought the Platinum Motley female 50% SD she had for sale but instead bought Caesar.
> 
> Once i get the 3 T25s and get everything set up, I'll have 2 T10s laying around which i possibly might fill with the Peruvian BCC and maybe a SD ultra Ivory or sharp snow bci. I do love Caesar but honestly I'm a boa guy as you can tell by the 4 boas i got already lol.
> 
> And i think Caesar has the most mainland out of all of our retics except Gene. But Caesar is also tiger so that combined with mainland is what is probably playing into his size. Good thing he is mellow and not cage defensive at all.
> 
> Plus Kris told me when i got him that Caesar LOVES to eat anything anytime so he said i would have no problems getting him to eat plus he said he was very handleable.


I wish I could add on here but I think Wallace was the last which is OK. I have a very busy life and another snake may become more of a chore, although I'd take a "Gina" here any day of the week.

Glad to hear Caesar is settling, maybe Wallace will fire up a bit and then slowly level out. He is so mellow in the cage and rarely reacts to anything I'm doing. He even needs some convincing with food. I prefer the Caesar attitude in a way as that is what retics are all about. 

On the other hand, I don't want a snake over the 10 foot mark unless it is a carpet or boa. Retics are another level and with size, that can cause problems.

Caesar must have a birthday coming very soon.

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_Sauzo_ (05-08-2017)

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## Sauzo

> I wish I could add on here but I think Wallace was the last which is OK. I have a very busy life and another snake may become more of a chore, although I'd take a "Gina" here any day of the week.
> 
> Glad to hear Caesar is settling, maybe Wallace will fire up a bit and then slowly level out. He is so mellow in the cage and rarely reacts to anything I'm doing. He even needs some convincing with food. I prefer the Caesar attitude in a way as that is what retics are all about. 
> 
> On the other hand, I don't want a snake over the 10 foot mark unless it is a carpet or boa. Retics are another level and with size, that can cause problems.
> 
> Caesar must have a birthday coming very soon.


Yeah, Caesar turns 1 year old the 18th. He is bigger than Rosey it seems. I haven't measured after his last shed but he just 'feels' a lot longer. No where near the girth of Rosey though.

And yeah retics are another level but the past 7 months I've had Caesar, the only time i have seen him mad was when i tried to introduce him to the snake hook lol. Since then, if he doesn't want to socialize, he bats my hand away with his body and if that doesn't work, he just tries to move to the hide that he wasn't under when i went to bother him.

That's half the reason i love retics. That amount of interaction whenever something happens. I love my boas but to be honest, they lift their head and perk up when the doors are slid open thinking food might be coming but Caesar is on another level as he will actively come out of his hide or from the back of the cage and check out what's going on. I usually leave the door open when I'm changing water and he will poke his head out and inspect the outside and watch me come back with his water bowl. I love how aware and interactive he is. Now there is a drawback and that is his feeding response. I have had to use a sliding door as a shield more than once when he smells dinner. That's the time when i have to be on the ball with him and the boas as they go from the gentle, relaxed lounge snakes to tubes of muscle and teeth lol.

That's why i go with the minimalist set ups. Makes it much faster and easier to just look inside for a poop or piss and then slide a door open, boop a snoot and then scoop and go.

And thanks, i love Gina. I personally don't really like picking 'favorites' as i 'love' all of my snakes but she is definitely up there. Along with what i think is an awesome pattern and her little eyelashes, she has an awesome personality. She has never tired to bite but she did get pissy at me once and hissed but that was it. No coiling or anything, just sat in her little spiral coil in her divet in the aspen and hissed once when i went to scoop her up. Then she was fine and started exploring haha.

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_jmcrook_ (05-09-2017)

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## jmcrook

She was acting like she's still a puppy, climbing all over my hat yesterday hahahah. A big puppy now...



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Gio (05-09-2017),_Sauzo_ (05-09-2017),_Stearns84_ (05-09-2017)

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## Gio

I can really see the thickness coming on. I really like the pattern coloring and change down by the tail.

I think this will be the summer when she starts to hit a little maturity.

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_jmcrook_ (05-09-2017)

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## jmcrook

> I can really see the thickness coming on. I really like the pattern coloring and change down by the tail.
> 
> I think this will be the summer when she starts to hit a little maturity.


I think so as well, Gio. Her length is seemingly slowing down a bit but she's packing on the girth for sure. She feels a little thicker and a little heavier every time she's out. Close to the size of my wrist now!


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Gio (05-09-2017)

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## Gio

> I think so as well, Gio. Her length is seemingly slowing down a bit but she's packing on the girth for sure. She feels a little thicker and a little heavier every time she's out. Close to the size of my wrist now!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's good! I like a little thickness with the squirmy, fast ones. I don't want a black mamba LOL!

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_jmcrook_ (05-09-2017)

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## jmcrook

Phyllis's pushing the last two days has been intense. Totally trashed her cage twice, spilled water everywhere, wrecked the joint. I noticed earlier when I was cleaning it all up that she's actually got a very slightly swollen upper right lip and it's causing her to whistle a little bit. No other sign of RI and she's always been a bit of a vocal breather. 
I did choose to minimize her cage furniture so she doesn't have as much stuff to brace her body against for pushing leverage. I felt bad taking her branch away because she generally sleeps behind it, but she's using it to beat up her face and had a couple rough scales that seemed to be scratched by something in the cage so I guessed it was the branch.
She's still got some stuff to play with though. I took bcr suggestion from another thread to give her some crumpled packing paper to push around. It seems to be working so far tonight! Not too restless in the cage but still active and poking around at the paper rather than the center support of the cage, which is good.

Granted I did have her out for half an hour before to let her climb all over the stairs and work off some energy, so that might account for her being calmer in the cage. I think the added floor space is also nice for her. Need her t25 to be done asap!


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_Stearns84_ (05-14-2017)

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## jmcrook

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## jmcrook

Well the pushing continued through the night and her fat lip got a bit more swollen. 

I'm concluding that she just needs food food food no less than every 7-9 days. Gave her a large rat just now. Going to keep an eye on her and monitor the swelling over the next week. I'm fairly confident it will go down but it's still frustrating to deal with nonetheless 



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_Reinz_ (05-14-2017)

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## Stearns84

> Phyllis's pushing the last two days has been intense. Totally trashed her cage twice, spilled water everywhere, wrecked the joint. I noticed earlier when I was cleaning it all up that she's actually got a very slightly swollen upper right lip and it's causing her to whistle a little bit. No other sign of RI and she's always been a bit of a vocal breather. 
> I did choose to minimize her cage furniture so she doesn't have as much stuff to brace her body against for pushing leverage. I felt bad taking her branch away because she generally sleeps behind it, but she's using it to beat up her face and had a couple rough scales that seemed to be scratched by something in the cage so I guessed it was the branch.
> She's still got some stuff to play with though. I took bcr suggestion from another thread to give her some crumpled packing paper to push around. It seems to be working so far tonight! Not too restless in the cage but still active and poking around at the paper rather than the center support of the cage, which is good.
> 
> Granted I did have her out for half an hour before to let her climb all over the stairs and work off some energy, so that might account for her being calmer in the cage. I think the added floor space is also nice for her. Need her t25 to be done asap!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Did you officially order the T25?

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## jmcrook

> Did you officially order the T25?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Yeah I ordered it march 29th. 


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_Stearns84_ (05-14-2017)

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## Stearns84

> Yeah I ordered it march 29th. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Damn I'm jealous! I can't swing that right now, hell I can t even find a truck to replace the car insurance totaled out.

Does AP ever ship early or is it always in the "quoted" time?

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## jmcrook

> Damn I'm jealous! I can't swing that right now, hell I can t even find a truck to replace the car insurance totaled out.
> 
> Does AP ever ship early or is it always in the "quoted" time?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


I would plan on it being longer than the quoted time. My quick ship T8s took like 7 weeks last year around this time


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## Sauzo

Lol you ordered your T25 2 weeks before me. Ordered my 3 on April 12th.

Sucks that Phyllis is pushing so much. Caesar never pushed THAT bad but then again, i kept him pretty fed when he was a baby which was when he did the most pushing. Now that he's almost 1 year old, he really doesnt push much anymore but will become antsy around the 7-10 day mark which is the time i feed him his large rat.

AP usually ships a a few days after the date they give. My T10s shipped out in 13 weeks. My T8s shipped out in a month and i was quoted July 12th for my T25s. I'm chomping at the bit for them as I'll be able to rearrange all my caging and play musical cages with the snakes. Plus i think Rosey, Vicky and Caesar will love the new cages.

And best of all, I'll have 2 cages free again!!! Must....fill.....cages lol. I'm actually thinking of getting a BCL now. I love the black and white look to them. I love Caesar but i do boas lol. Had little Gina out this morning and she was exploring all over me and trying to sit on my shoulder except she's too small for that haha. Had Caesar out too and he was having his fun crawling all over me. And got big Rosey out as I'm typing. She's just lounging.

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_jmcrook_ (05-15-2017)

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## Stearns84

> Lol you ordered your T25 2 weeks before me. Ordered my 3 on April 12th.
> 
> Sucks that Phyllis is pushing so much. Caesar never pushed THAT bad but then again, i kept him pretty fed when he was a baby which was when he did the most pushing. Now that he's almost 1 year old, he really doesnt push much anymore but will become antsy around the 7-10 day mark which is the time i feed him his large rat.
> 
> AP usually ships a a few days after the date they give. My T10s shipped out in 13 weeks. My T8s shipped out in a month and i was quoted July 12th for my T25s. I'm chomping at the bit for them as I'll be able to rearrange all my caging and play musical cages with the snakes. Plus i think Rosey, Vicky and Caesar will love the new cages.
> 
> And best of all, I'll have 2 cages free again!!! Must....fill.....cages lol. I'm actually thinking of getting a BCL now. I love the black and white look to them. I love Caesar but i do boas lol. Had little Gina out this morning and she was exploring all over me and trying to sit on my shoulder except she's too small for that haha. Had Caesar out too and he was having his fun crawling all over me. And got big Rosey out as I'm typing. She's just lounging.


Pics or BS.

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## Sauzo

> Pics or BS.
> 
> Sent from my QTAQZ3 using Tapatalk


Pic of what?

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## jmcrook

My buddy who's bred snakes for 20-30 years told me Phyllis should be fine, that they all push pretty hard at some point or another. Still don't like seeing her with a fat lip but hopefully the swelling goes down over the next week or so. 


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Gio (05-15-2017),_Sauzo_ (05-15-2017),_Stearns84_ (05-15-2017)

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## Stearns84

> Pic of what?


I was being a smartass in hopes that you'd post pictures.

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_Sauzo_ (05-15-2017)

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## Sauzo

> My buddy who's bred snakes for 20-30 years told me Phyllis should be fine, that they all push pretty hard at some point or another. Still don't like seeing her with a fat lip but hopefully the swelling goes down over the next week or so. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'd be freaking out if Caesar got a fat lip haha. I was worried when he got the scrapes on his chin

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## jmcrook

> I'd be freaking out if Caesar got a fat lip haha. I was worried when he got the scrapes on his chin


It definitely is causing me some concern but I'm going to just keep an eye on it for a few days. Her gums are the same color as always, she's still very alert, not pushing currently due to the large rat in her belly. Just gonna make sure she's acting normal during her digestion period and monitor the swelling. If it's the same or worse close to the end of the week then I'll probably make a vet appt. 


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## Sauzo

> I was being a smartass in hopes that you'd post pictures.
> 
> Sent from my QTAQZ3 using Tapatalk


Haha. I was kind of confused on what you meant. It went back to being rainy and gloomy again so couldnt get any outside pics of Caesar. He did somehow manage to get poop on himself last night though which i thought was a cut. He was less than enthused to be dragged out of his cage, washed down with a warm wet paper towel and then have me spot clean his poop. He made a break off the top of his hide for the inside of it and when that wasnt working, he tried to grab onto it with his neck. I put him back after and he sat there just giving me serious stink eye. Didnt move an inch, just stared me down lol. He really wasnt happy about being dragged off his hide even if he was sitting next to a turd and had a nice smear of it on his side.

I'll be getting plenty of pics of everyone come summer time and i get their outside PVC jungle gym built.

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_Stearns84_ (05-15-2017)

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## Stearns84

Jmcrook - how's Phyllis face and pushing?

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## jmcrook

> Jmcrook - how's Phyllis face and pushing?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


No pushing the last couple days since she ate, but still a good bit of swelling on her top lip/nose area. No signs of infection but it still worries me a bit. May schedule a vet appointment if it gets worse. Hopefully it goes down a bit over the next few days or a week at most. 

Any other retic keepers care to weigh in on how her face looks? First time dealing with swollen face from pushing 


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## Gio

> No pushing the last couple days since she ate, but still a good bit of swelling on her top lip/nose area. No signs of infection but it still worries me a bit. May schedule a vet appointment if it gets worse. Hopefully it goes down a bit over the next few days or a week at most. 
> 
> Any other retic keepers care to weigh in on how her face looks? First time dealing with swollen face from pushing 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hey looks OK.

I haven't had a single pushing issue,,,,,, YET,,,, I really think perches and cage height help. It may not be the final solution with large retics, but I'm pretty certain multiple options will help. 

There are other things to provide/use, such as a half full water bottle that the snake can move around.

I'm certainly as new a keeper as you are but looking at the wild habits and biology of the species, I'm convinced they will not only use, but "enjoy" as much as a reptile can, the opportunity to perch and coil. I think perches provide a little different option than a shelf.

Unless we all hit the  jackpot and win the lottery, I'm guessing we'll all be limited with our housing potential.

I am going 24" tall. I debated, and really wanted the AP cage to make it happen but the price to do it was just not in the cards.

I think you can still make it happen with an 18" tall AP and maybe look into sky hides.

Your SD has more arboreal potential than a female mainland, but even the mainland will perch.

If your temps are on the upper end of the "acceptable range" you could look at putting them at the lower acceptable end of the range and see if the pushing stops. 

I really have not had any issues with Wallace being overly hungry or pushy. At least to this point. He has become more active the last week and I do see him facing me when I'm at the cage door but still no striking or pushing.

You've got a beauty there and I hope to see her thrive in years to come. As in the next 20 to 30!

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_jmcrook_ (05-16-2017)

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## Sauzo

I'd watch it and see if it gets worse like you said. Luckily when Caesar does push, he tends to just shove his head in between the door and litter dam so he only gets the scrapes on the bottom of his chin. He ate a large rat yesterday and good god, i fed Rosey and Vicky and almost got tagged by Vicky. She shot out of the cage and almost got me lol as i was reaching for a sheet of printer paper. But anyways, Caesar must have smelled the rats as he came out of his hide and was staring down as i was feeding Vicky lol. I am floored at the feeding response and 'want' of food from retics. I mean the boas LOVE food too but Caesar takes it to the next level. Heck even Gina and Rango were 'levitating' off the floor of the cage and swaying back and forth cocked and ready to rock haha. The only one who didnt want food was Dottie. She hasnt eaten in just over 3 months.

But like i said, that sucks that Phyllis did that. Was she smashing her face directly into the glass doors? And like Gio said, maybe lower the temps if they are on the high end. I keep Caesar's ambient cage temp around 79-81F depending on the rooms temp and his flexwatt is set for a 90F hot spot.

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## Sauzo

I'd watch it and see if it gets worse like you said. Luckily when Caesar does push, he tends to just shove his head in between the door and litter dam so he only gets the scrapes on the bottom of his chin. He ate a large rat yesterday and good god, i fed Rosey and Vicky and almost got tagged by Vicky. She shot out of the cage and almost got me lol as i was reaching for a sheet of printer paper. But anyways, Caesar must have smelled the rats as he came out of his hide and was staring down as i was feeding Vicky lol. I am floored at the feeding response and 'want' of food from retics. I mean the boas LOVE food too but Caesar takes it to the next level. Heck even Gina and Rango were 'levitating' off the floor of the cage and swaying back and forth cocked and ready to rock haha. The only one who didnt want food was Dottie. She hasnt eaten in just over 3 months.

But like i said, that sucks that Phyllis did that. Was she smashing her face directly into the glass doors? And like Gio said, maybe lower the temps if they are on the high end. I keep Caesar's ambient cage temp around 79-81F depending on the rooms temp and his flexwatt is set for a 90F hot spot. Height might help but i got Caesar in a T10 with 15" height and a shelf and honestly, Caesar doesnt use the shelf too much anymore. He used it a lot as a baby. Do you have a cool and warm hide? I notice Caesar likes to sleep in one or the other during the day and then at night, he will sit on top of one.

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## jmcrook

Yeah she smashes her face into the glass st the center support of the front of the cage. Literally puts all of her weight and strength into it. It's borderline disturbing at times. Her temps are spot on, 77-80 cool side, about 88 warm side where she usually hangs out. I had offered two hides until recently because she had never used the cool side hide. She'll have two once she in her bigger cage but for now she wouldn't have any floor space if she had two hides that she can actually fit in. Heck, she's about outgrown her bigger one that I made a few months ago. It's about the size of a large RBI hide. I guess I'm just going to keep her in a food coma until the new cage is done , otherwise I'm afraid she'll really do some damage to her face


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## Sauzo

Is Phyllis' face looking better?

Also not sure if it will work with Phyllis but when Caesar pushes, if i slide a door open and leave it about halfway open, Caesar will sit with his face hanging out and looking at stuff or resting on the litter dam. Sometimes though it doesnt work the best and Caesar will try and climb on top of the cage stack or look inside Vicky's cage lol. But most of the time, it quiets him down and after a while he will go inside a hide and sleep.

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## jmcrook

> Is Phyllis' face looking better?
> 
> Also not sure if it will work with Phyllis but when Caesar pushes, if i slide a door open and leave it about halfway open, Caesar will sit with his face hanging out and looking at stuff or resting on the litter dam. Sometimes though it doesnt work the best and Caesar will try and climb on top of the cage stack or look inside Vicky's cage lol. But most of the time, it quiets him down and after a while he will go inside a hide and sleep.


It looked a bit better last I checked. She's in shed so I haven't seen her in a couple days lol. She shacks up really tight in her hide and doesn't budge until it's time to actually shed. 
The thing is she'll push all night while I'm asleep so I can't really leave he door open hahah. If I catch her during the day I'll get her out and let her explore and burn off some energy. I've tried the door half open approach a couple times but she just crawls out and tries to get on top of or behind the cages and gets all tangled up in anything she can find. My flat files are right next to the cages and that's about the last place that I want her to go exploring and get stuck inside. That would be an absolute nightmare 


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_Stearns84_ (05-20-2017)

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## jmcrook

Update on Queen Phyllis. Her lip looks totally normal now that she's been calm and quiet in her shed cycle. I think she'll likely shed at some point today or tonight. Here she is poking her head out after I sprayed down her cage a bit.

I'm leaving for 6 days on Saturday morning so I'm hesitant to feed before I leave because I don't want her laying in a bunch of piss and poo starting three or so days after eating, that's her usual bathroom cycle.. but I feel like she's going to push like crazy after she sheds and hasn't eaten in two weeks. I generally try not to feed starting 5 days before I leave for a trip. What would any of you all do in this case? 


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Gio (05-25-2017)

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## jmcrook

Her highness shed last night and looks incredible. Gave me an unbroken 8'+ shed! 



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Gio (05-25-2017),_MR Snakes_ (12-13-2018),_Sauzo_ (05-25-2017),_Stearns84_ (07-10-2017)

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## Gio

> Her highness shed last night and looks incredible. Gave me an unbroken 8'+ shed! 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


She looks sensational!

You know I prefer a natural, Mother Nature color scheme. While Wallace is a morph technically, his pattern is a "natural morph" pattern. I believe Carl Herman (RIP) who never lived too far from me acquired the first US tiger here in the US as a wild caught animal, I could be off target there but I believe that is accurate. Wallace would easily survive if released back into the environment reticulated pythons come from.

Anyhow, you have a wonderful and very beautiful girl there!

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_jmcrook_ (05-25-2017)

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## jmcrook

Phyllis shed today and her face looks pretty much back to normal as far as I can tell. She also slammed her first 400gram jumbo rat no problem. She's getting quite big. Might be over 7' at this point and probably 7ish pounds. 


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_MR Snakes_ (12-13-2018),_Reinz_ (06-30-2017),_Sauzo_ (06-30-2017),_Stearns84_ (06-30-2017)

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## Sauzo

Nice. Good that her face is ok. Yeah Caesar eats 300g rats.

So i ended up going back to aspen lol. Seems my snakes dont like the Reptichips. When on it, Caesar just sits curled up. Rosey will push to get out. Rango and Gina sit in their hides curled up too. Vicky just sits in the back. When back on their aspen, Caesar will stretch out and relax. Same with Rosey. Gina and Rango will sit hanging out of their hides just relaxing. And Vicky will burrow in the aspen and stretch out. Figured they would like the ReptiChips but guess not lol. Its ok though as i still get around 70ish humidity with just misting the aspen once or twice a week and it also smells much better and easier to spot poops and pisses.

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_jmcrook_ (06-30-2017),_Stearns84_ (06-30-2017)

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## jmcrook

Huh, all 3 of my snakes seem to like the reptichip just fine. I actually like the smell lol. Thinking about trying the cypress mulch from lowes as it's way freaking cheaper than reptichip and still holds decent humidity. I just really like how well reptichip absorbs piss and eliminates a lot of odor while keeping pretty consistent humidity levels for me


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## Sauzo

Lol i must be doing something wrong. It smells good for a few days, then it starts to smell kind of like mildew or dirt. But yeah, its weird that none of my snakes seem to like it. Dottie is the only one who seems indifferent to it but everyone else just doesnt seem to like to stretch out on it. It's like they want the least amount of their body touching it haha.

But the weirdest part is like i said, it smells ok, almost kind of like a raisin smell for a few days. Then it gets thats musky/mildew/dirt smell. But then again my snakes are weird. When caesar pushes, if i just leave a door open, he will come over to the open door and camp it in front of it and just relax and be quiet. Same with Rosey. Here's Rosey earlier tonight. She was being a terror in her cage so i slid a door open and she has been relaxing since hahaha. My snakes are such weirdos.

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_jmcrook_ (06-30-2017),_Stearns84_ (06-30-2017)

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## Reinz

Glad to see that pretty girl's face is ok. 

She sure doesn't seem to be having difficulty sliding that Jumbo down!  :Smile:

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_jmcrook_ (06-30-2017)

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## jmcrook

I think it might be time for a bigger water bowl... she's only had this one for maybe 7 months?! Jeez... 
To be fair, she did just pound a 450gram rat and is about 115% of her normal mass in the bowl right now. I think 3-400 gram rats are the best size window for the time being. Got this beastly rodent down fine but it's about the biggest prey size I'm comfortable giving her right now. I'm sure she'll be hungry again by the end of the week haha


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Gio (07-12-2017),_MR Snakes_ (12-13-2018),_Stearns84_ (07-10-2017)

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## jmcrook

Had Phyllis out in the front yard today to stretch out and do some bathroom business after the cleaned her cage and she got to do a little impromptu snake education for some of the neighbors. She met I think 6-7 new people, was incredibly well behaved and everyone that saw her thought she was incredible. She's met a few of the neighbors before but not this many over the course of an hour and she couldn't have been a better ambassador for typically non snake people. Her size definitely captivates people quickly and then folks always comment on her pattern and coloration, followed by the obligatory "does she bite?!" question haha. I of course was happy to help educate all of her visitors as to her background, geographic origins, age, eating habits, and help dispel some of the usual snake myths... "is she mean? Does she bite?!"-no, snakes are not mean. They are sometimes scared and/or defensive but not mean. A couple folks petted her briefly and were quite intrigued to find that snakes are actually rather soft and smooth, not slimy lol. 

Here she is right before she took a giant piss all over the yard and my shorts haha. 


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Creepy Alien (08-15-2017),Gio (07-12-2017),_MR Snakes_ (12-13-2018),_Stearns84_ (07-14-2017)

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## Gio

> Had Phyllis out in the front yard today to stretch out and do some bathroom business after the cleaned her cage and she got to do a little impromptu snake education for some of the neighbors. She met I think 6-7 new people, was incredibly well behaved and everyone that saw her thought she was incredible. She's met a few of the neighbors before but not this many over the course of an hour and she couldn't have been a better ambassador for typically non snake people. Her size definitely captivates people quickly and then folks always comment on her pattern and coloration, followed by the obligatory "does she bite?!" question haha. I of course was happy to help educate all of her visitors as to her background, geographic origins, age, eating habits, and help dispel some of the usual snake myths... "is she mean? Does she bite?!"-no, snakes are not mean. They are sometimes scared and/or defensive but not mean. A couple folks petted her briefly and were quite intrigued to find that snakes are actually rather soft and smooth, not slimy lol. 
> 
> Here she is right before she took a giant piss all over the yard and my shorts haha. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Whoa you guys look great. She looks fantastic and her size is damn near perfect. She could easily put on another 2 feet and be no problem to handle.

You scored with that one sir!

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_jmcrook_ (07-12-2017)

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## Sauzo

> Had Phyllis out in the front yard today to stretch out and do some bathroom business after the cleaned her cage and she got to do a little impromptu snake education for some of the neighbors. She met I think 6-7 new people, was incredibly well behaved and everyone that saw her thought she was incredible. She's met a few of the neighbors before but not this many over the course of an hour and she couldn't have been a better ambassador for typically non snake people. Her size definitely captivates people quickly and then folks always comment on her pattern and coloration, followed by the obligatory "does she bite?!" question haha. I of course was happy to help educate all of her visitors as to her background, geographic origins, age, eating habits, and help dispel some of the usual snake myths... "is she mean? Does she bite?!"-no, snakes are not mean. They are sometimes scared and/or defensive but not mean. A couple folks petted her briefly and were quite intrigued to find that snakes are actually rather soft and smooth, not slimy lol. 
> 
> Here she is right before she took a giant piss all over the yard and my shorts haha. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


She looks almost like Caesar except the color. I'm going have to get a pic of Caesar on the floor inside. Not sure i want to chance him outside yet and he seems kind of scared of being outside. Imagine that, a little 2' boa loves to go outside and a 7' retic is kind of scared of the outside lol.

She looks good. I like how she blends in with the ground color. Kind of cool.

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_jmcrook_ (07-13-2017)

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## jmcrook

This is sort of an update post for the whole crew. 
The move to Mississippi went well. Gerald and Phyllis shed within an hour of each other the day before I was going to put them in temporary tubs so that worked out well. No messes in anyone's snake bags over the course of 12 hours being bagged in boxes. Weirdly Geoffrey was the most rambunctious in his bag. He's usually content to continue acting like a rock regardless of the situation at hand but this time I had to double tape his moving box closed because he, while still in his bag, pushed the top open. 
Also got an updated weight on Phyllis while in her bag... 3400grams/7.5lbs! She's getting some nice girth. 
Went to the local pet shop to get rats for everyone. Pitifully stocked, way over priced, and low weights. The smalls weighed about normal at 60-65grams each. Their jumbo rat (yes they only had one) however only weighed about 285grams and was priced at $8.99! For some reason they did give me $2 off the jumbo and $2 off my four smalls but I still ended up paying $28 for 5 rats in total. Promptly made an order with rodent pro and should be stocked for the next 4 months for $110 total at an average price of $2.43/rat for 43 rats ranging between small and 2xl. Cut my feeding costs down by more than half. 
Talked to Ali at AP... just waiting on my apparently missing RHP from pro products that I ordered in April. This is getting annoying at this point. Been like 18 weeks since I ordered the cage and it turns out the thing holding everything up is the dang panel at this point. And I know that Bob received payment because the check cleared the bank like a week or so after sending it to him.
And now a couple obligatory photos haha


And Geoffrey acting like a rock as per usual lol


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Gio (08-06-2017),_Stearns84_ (08-06-2017)

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## DLena

Of course Geoffrey is acting like a rock...he got tons of exercise on the road trip! Phyllis and Gerald are getting so big, I don't get how your hat brim can still support their weight. There're just beautiful.

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_jmcrook_ (08-06-2017)

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## Sauzo

Dang, i could have ordered a T65 and had it set up and Caesar in it in the amount of time you are waiting lol. Phyllis and Gerald look good. Caesar is in shed now lol.

Might be picking up another snake lol. Was debating on a hatchling Coastal Carpet if you didnt know but i backed out as i like carpets but I'm a boa guy. I'm talking to gal about a Peruvian Longtail BCL from a Vin Russo and Legacy Reptile pairing. Depending what the parents looks like, i might be pulling the trigger as that and an Iquitos or Pucallpa Peruvian are the 2 snakes i really want.

And grats on you and everyone else making it safe and sound. i was expecting the post to be pics of the new set up though  :Razz:

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_jmcrook_ (08-06-2017)

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## jmcrook

> Dang, i could have ordered a T65 and had it set up and Caesar in it in the amount of time you are waiting lol. Phyllis and Gerald look good. Caesar is in shed now lol.
> 
> Might be picking up another snake lol. Was debating on a hatchling Coastal Carpet if you didnt know but i backed out as i like carpets but I'm a boa guy. I'm talking to gal about a Peruvian Longtail BCL from a Vin Russo and Legacy Reptile pairing. Depending what the parents looks like, i might be pulling the trigger as that and an Iquitos or Pucallpa Peruvian are the 2 snakes i really want.
> 
> And grats on you and everyone else making it safe and sound. i was expecting the post to be pics of the new set up though


You and your boas really make me want a locality red tail BCC lol. You've got a great gang of critters there. On the flip side, I've just always just been more drawn to pythons for some reason, not entirely sure why. I'd love a carpet python some day... or a BCC... or a white lipped python... or a dwarf burm... hahaha
I'll be sure to post pics when/if I ever get this dang T25


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## jmcrook

> Of course Geoffrey is acting like a rock...he got tons of exercise on the road trip! Phyllis and Gerald are getting so big, I don't get how your hat brim can still support their weight. There're just beautiful.


lol it's definitely the most activity he's had any part of in a while. He's such a lazy bum but he's the oldest snake I currently have and I couldn't imagine not having him haha. 
Gerald is definitely getting bigger but he doesn't feel much bigger really. Definitely stronger and still squirrelly but for being 17 months old he's tiny. Maybe 1000grams. 
Phyllis is getting huge. She's got some serious mass to her now. I feel like she's been growing thicker rather than longer for a bit now.
And my hat barely holds them, if at all anymore. It's more my hat brim resting on my glasses, resting on the bridge of my nose hah


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Gio (08-06-2017)

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## Sauzo

> You and your boas really make me want a locality red tail BCC lol. You've got a great gang of critters there. On the flip side, I've just always just been more drawn to pythons for some reason, not entirely sure why. I'd love a carpet python some day... or a BCC... or a white lipped python... or a dwarf burm... hahaha
> I'll be sure to post pics when/if I ever get this dang T25
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks and yeah there is too many snakes and not enough room and caging haha. I'd like a carpet but like i said, I've always been a boa guy. Probably because boas are so mellow and loungers....like me lol. Caesar is awesome but my god, more than one of him and it would become a job to me which i dont want it to become and burn me out. Plus boas dont eat as much so it's cheaper haha. Caesar already eats $45 worth of Guinea pigs a month. Two more of him and I'd have to get a job just to feed them lol. Plus boas grow as fast as paint dries so i dont have to worry about caging costs for years.

With my experience from Caesar and Dottie and Allison when she wasnt trying to eat me, pythons are easier to get to change directions where as once my boas make up their mind where they want to go, its hard to change their mind. I turn them a different direction and they turn right around lol. I move them and they seem to know which way to go haha.

But cant go wrong either way and if i could, I'd get a lot of both. Just i have 2 extra cages and one of them I'm debating on a Gila Monster still but even though I've wanted once since a kid and now can finally get one, I'm actually second thinking it now as if i took a bite and was down for 2 weeks, that would really put a strain on the household so might be a better idea to just live vicariously through other people with them haha. So it pretty much would boil down to a BCL in 1 cage and then either an Iquitos or Pucallpa Peruvian BCC or another Suriname BCC.

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Gio (08-06-2017)

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## Gio

Looking good.  

The cage will arrive soon enough. Mine is being built. Still have to order my panel.  So maybe we'll be gearing up at the same time. 

Your crew is getting big!

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_jmcrook_ (08-06-2017)

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## jmcrook

> Caesar is awesome but my god, more than one of him and it would become a job to me which i dont want it to become and burn me out. Plus boas dont eat as much so it's cheaper haha. Caesar already eats $45 worth of Guinea pigs a month. Two more of him and I'd have to get a job just to feed them lol.


Holy mackerel dude! $45/month on one snake?! I thought I was spending a lot on rodents. You should really look into rodent pro or something comparable. My new local shop, which I'm surprised I even have in this city, sells small rats for $5. At that cost it makes sense for me to spend $29 on shipping even for just one bag of 20 small rats as it would bring my small rat price down to $2.50/rat. I just ordered 20 small, 10 medium, 9 xl, and 6 xxl, and spent $109.75 which puts me at an average price of $2.44 per rat of any of the four sizes I ordered. Much better than paying $8.99 for an under weight "jumbo" once a week-10 days imo. 


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## Sauzo

> Looking good.  
> 
> The cage will arrive soon enough. Mine is being built. Still have to order my panel.  So maybe we'll be gearing up at the same time. 
> 
> Your crew is getting big!


Wait, did you break down for an AP T25 too?

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## Sauzo

> Holy mackerel dude! $45/month on one snake?! I thought I was spending a lot on rodents. You should really look into rodent pro or something comparable. My new local shop, which I'm surprised I even have in this city, sells small rats for $5. At that cost it makes sense for me to spend $29 on shipping even for just one bag of 20 small rats as it would bring my small rat price down to $2.50/rat. I just ordered 20 small, 10 medium, 9 xl, and 6 xxl, and spent $109.75 which puts me at an average price of $2.44 per rat of any of the four sizes I ordered. Much better than paying $8.99 for an under weight "jumbo" once a week-10 days imo. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Dude, that's just for Caesar too lol. I spend about $100 a month on food for all of them and then depending on Harley, usually more. And yes, i need a mini chest freezer lol.

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_jmcrook_ (08-06-2017)

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## Gio

> Wait, did you break down for an AP T25 too?


Nope,

Ed is building mine. I've got a 72" x 30" x 24" with rock background coming. I already have a dead oak tree branch ready to install in there as well.

This cage will really be something when I'm done.

I can't believe how much you spend on food LOL!

The royal here eats one large rat maybe 5-6 times a year sometimes less. The carpet eats 1 or 2 large rats, or a quail or rabbit about every 2 months.

The boa eats once a month and skips all winter.

Even Wallace is capable of every 14 days between meals.

I don't spend that much, don't clean that much, but enjoy LOTS!

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_jmcrook_ (08-06-2017)

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## Sauzo

> Nope,Ed is building mine. I've got a 72" x 30" x 24" with rock background coming. I already have a dead oak tree branch ready to install in there as well.This cage will really be something when I'm done.I can't believe how much you spend on food LOL!The royal here eats one large rat maybe 5-6 times a year sometimes less. The carpet eats 1 or 2 large rats, or a quail or rabbit about every 2 months.The boa eats once a month and skips all winter.Even Wallace is capable of every 14 days between meals.I don't spend that much, don't clean that much, but enjoy LOTS!


Yeah, Caesar eats every 10 days or he mutilates his face.

Rosey and Vicky eat every 3-4 weeks.

Gina, Rango and Luna eat every 10 days but once Gina hits one year old, I'll push everyone back to 2 weeks probably.

Dottie eats when Dottie wants. Since moving her back into her T10 she has been active at night and back to eating like a machine. Guess she likes the T10 more than the T8.

And then if I get this Tumbes boa aka Peruvian Longtail aka BCL, that will be another mouth. And I also got another Rio Bravo Pokigron male reserved from Chris Wolf from his Oct litter. He will go with Gina if I decide to actually breed later.

So yeah, I really do need a chest freezer lol.

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Gio (08-06-2017),_jmcrook_ (08-06-2017)

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## Gio

> Yeah, Caesar eats every 10 days or he mutilates his face.
> 
> Rosey and Vicky eat every 3-4 weeks.
> 
> Gina, Rango and Luna eat every 10 days but once Gina hits one year old, I'll push everyone back to 2 weeks probably.
> 
> Dottie eats when Dottie wants. Since moving her back into her T10 she has been active at night and back to eating like a machine. Guess she likes the T10 more than the T8.
> 
> And then if I get this Tumbes boa aka Peruvian Longtail aka BCL, that will be another mouth. And I also got another Rio Bravo Pokigron male reserved from Chris Wolf from his Oct litter. He will go with Gina if I decide to actually breed later.
> ...


I might hit you up down the road for that Poki pairing!!

I forget you have a few younger snakes there however Caesar needs to mellow out LOL !

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## Sauzo

> I might hit you up down the road for that Poki pairing!!
> 
> I forget you have a few younger snakes there however Caesar needs to mellow out LOL !


Haha, he's actually quiet as church mouse atm. He is in shed AND ate a 2XL guinea pig so he has the double whammy to keep him quiet. Now Dottie is causing trouble. She shed last night and was out in force shoving her temp/humidity gauge around. Stuffing her head in the litter dam like Caesar and staring out the front. I think she is hungry haha.

Haha. Yeah it will be a long time before i attempt to breed them but if i breed anyone, it will be them.

And yeah, i got 3 youngsters unless you count Caesar, then 4 haha.

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Gio (08-09-2017)

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## jmcrook

Latest photos courtesy of my partner for Phyllis's 18 month old update! 
I knew she was getting big but these pics really put things in perspective, I'm 5'4" maybe 5'5" with my boots on to give a sense of scale here. She's gotta be closing in on 7.5', maybe even closer to 8'. 


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Gio (08-14-2017),_Sauzo_ (08-15-2017)

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## Gio

> Latest photos courtesy of my partner for Phyllis's 18 month old update! 
> I knew she was getting big but these pics really put things in perspective, I'm 5'4" maybe 5'5" with my boots on to give a sense of scale here. She's gotta be closing in on 7.5', maybe even closer to 8'. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Outstanding!!

The new place looks great and you two look exceptionally great as well.

Yep, she is big but nice and lean. I'd be thrilled if Wallace hit that size. She looks 8'-9' there. 

Job well done sir!!

Side note,,,, I  had two good ones at the brew pub tonight with my wife.

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_jmcrook_ (08-14-2017)

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## jmcrook

> Outstanding!!
> 
> The new place looks great and you two look exceptionally great as well.
> 
> Yep, she is big but nice and lean. I'd be thrilled if Wallace hit that size. She looks 8'-9' there. 
> 
> Job well done sir!!
> 
> Side note,,,, I  had two good ones at the brew pub tonight with my wife.


Lol thanks brother! Haven't gotten a tape measure on her in a bit but I think my short stature makes her look like a 9 footer. Wouldn't be surprised to find out she's a good 8' though.
As I'm typing I just finished cleaning her cage for the second time today... freaking retics! Good thing they're fun otherwise the cleanup wouldn't be worth it
Lucky dog with your brew pubs hahah! I shouldn't complain too much about being in the beer desert down here. I have about 5 cases worth of different great brews aging to perfection in my "cellar"/snake room closet and I was delighted to find out that at least my favorite Two Hearted Ale by Bells brewery is readily available in Starkville, MS! Having said that, variety is the spice of life and I do miss having several hundred different beer options at my fingertips back home...


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## Sauzo

Phyllis looks good. She is definitely getting big. I was all excited thinking this was going to be the cage pic lol.

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_jmcrook_ (08-15-2017)

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## jmcrook

Well it's been 6 days since Phyllis last ate and I just got home to see that she's been pushing like crazy and beat her face up again... swollen lip again. I really hope the new cage helps a bit if/when I ever get the dang thing 


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## Sauzo

> Well it's been 6 days since Phyllis last ate and I just got home to see that she's been pushing like crazy and beat her face up again... swollen lip again. I really hope the new cage helps a bit if/when I ever get the dang thing Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Stupid Google not saving my text to posts....

Anyways, good luck with that chief. I though the same thing when I got Caesar his big cage and guess what, he destroyed his face even more lol. I think he was able to get more of his body into the push haha.

Face it brutha, we got bottomless pit retics. They are always hungry and if they don't get food when they want, they have learned 'If I don't get food when I want, I will just destroy my face because then I get food....lots of food!'  :Razz:

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_jmcrook_ (08-16-2017)

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## jmcrook

> Stupid Google not saving my text to posts....
> 
> Anyways, good luck with that chief. I though the same thing when I got Caesar his big cage and guess what, he destroyed his face even more lol. I think he was able to get more of his body into the push haha.
> 
> Face it brutha, we got bottomless pit retics. They are always hungry and if they don't get food when they want, they have learned 'If I don't get food when I want, I will just destroy my face because then I get food....lots of food!'


No joke man! She's going to need an xl rat every 5-6 days at this point. It's crazy. I probably should have ordered more 2xl than xl in my rodent pro order. Live and learn I suppose... 


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## Sauzo

> No joke man! She's going to need an xl rat every 5-6 days at this point. It's crazy. I probably should have ordered more 2xl than xl in my rodent pro order. Live and learn I suppose... 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Haha, Caesar is up to colossal rats and 2XL guinea pigs to keep him quiet for 10 days or so. He just destroys them. Like I said in another post, I was giving him a colossal rat but the tongs I use are just an old pair of BBQ tongs which aren't really strong enough to hold that large of food so I kept dropping it when I got it close to his door lol. He came shooting out of the door with mouth open and flailing like Stevie Wonder rocking on the piano lol. I had to wait until he got bored and went back into his cage. Then I slid the door enough that he couldn't get out but it got his attention. I then then slid the other side open and quickly laid the rat on top of his cool hide and close the door. He smelled it and went over and when he found it, he slammed it so hard he shook the freakin doors the whole cage stack haha. He is no joke when it comes to feeding. A wrong move and he will seriously mess you up. When there is no food, he is an angel and I pet him on the head and he will just lay at the front of the cage while I pet him but man, when he smells food, you have to be VERY careful.

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## jmcrook

> Haha, Caesar is up to colossal rats and 2XL guinea pigs to keep him quiet for 10 days or so. He just destroys them. Like I said in another post, I was giving him a colossal rat but the tongs I use are just an old pair of BBQ tongs which aren't really strong enough to hold that large of food so I kept dropping it when I got it close to his door lol. He came shooting out of the door with mouth open and flailing like Stevie Wonder rocking on the piano lol. I had to wait until he got bored and went back into his cage. Then I slid the door enough that he couldn't get out but it got his attention. I then then slid the other side open and quickly laid the rat on top of his cool hide and close the door. He smelled it and went over and when he found it, he slammed it so hard he shook the freakin doors the whole cage stack haha. He is no joke when it comes to feeding. A wrong move and he will seriously mess you up. When there is no food, he is an angel and I pet him on the head and he will just lay at the front of the cage while I pet him but man, when he smells food, you have to be VERY careful.


Yeah, Phyllis shakes the doors to the cages every time she strikes her food. She's a monster. Really should have gotten all 2xl and some 3xl rats for her. I guess if I have to feed her more frequently on 2xl for a while I at least got a decent deal on her rats.  ~$2.50 every 5-6 days is way better than $9 at the same schedule as the pet shop down here had jumbos that weighed under 300 grams. Her last meal was 360grams and she completely evacuated that from her system in 5 days. Beast. She could probably take two xl but that might be a bit much. She'd look like she ate a football after that 


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## Sauzo

> Yeah, Phyllis shakes the doors to the cages every time she strikes her food. She's a monster. Really should have gotten all 2xl and some 3xl rats for her. I guess if I have to feed her more frequently on 2xl for a while I at least got a decent deal on her rats.  ~$2.50 every 5-6 days is way better than $9 at the same schedule as the pet shop down here had jumbos that weighed under 300 grams. Her last meal was 360grams and she completely evacuated that from her system in 5 days. Beast. She could probably take two xl but that might be a bit much. She'd look like she ate a football after that 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Oh easily. Caesars colossal rats and 2XL guinea pigs are running around 450ish grams and that last him about 10-14 days. 14 days being I got lucky lol.

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_jmcrook_ (08-16-2017)

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## jmcrook

> Oh easily. Caesars colossal rats and 2XL guinea pigs are running around 450ish grams and that last him about 10-14 days. 14 days being I got lucky lol.


Huh, my old shop back home had jumbos that weighed 400-450ish. Guess I just lucked out there haha. Even with those Phyllis wouldn't last more than 9-10 days after eating before going all hulk mode on the center post at the front of the cage. Just gave her a 360 gram rat right now, she'll be hungry again in about an hour lol!


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_Sauzo_ (08-17-2017)

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## Sauzo

> Huh, my old shop back home had jumbos that weighed 400-450ish. Guess I just lucked out there haha. Even with those Phyllis wouldn't last more than 9-10 days after eating before going all hulk mode on the center post at the front of the cage. Just gave her a 360 gram rat right now, she'll be hungry again in about an hour lol!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wow, that shop had big feeders. Yeah the place i go, the colossals are about 450ish grams and the 2XL guinea pigs are about the same, around 450ish grams. Caesar lasts about 10 days with them, 14 if i get really lucky. Then he does his hulk thing at the exact same center post too haha. I'm beginning to think actually Phyllis and Caesar are related  :Razz:

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_jmcrook_ (08-17-2017)

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## jmcrook

Holy freaking mackerel, tomorrow is finally the day! Exactly 22 weeks from the day I ordered it Phyllis's T25 is supposed to be delivered tomorrow afternoon. Going to lowes to get some mirror mounts to set up her sky hide. So freaking pumped! Deluge of pics to follow once I have it set up 


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Addiction (08-28-2017),_Sauzo_ (08-28-2017),_Stearns84_ (08-28-2017)

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## Sauzo

Ali wanted me to relay a message to you since she didnt want to get yelled. They seem to have shipped your cage to a different customer so they will have make you a new one. Should only take 10 weeks since you will be pushed to the front of the line.  :Very Happy:

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_BR8080_ (08-29-2017),_jmcrook_ (08-28-2017),_Stearns84_ (08-28-2017)

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## DLena

> Holy freaking mackerel, tomorrow is finally the day! Exactly 22 weeks from the day I ordered it Phyllis's T25 is supposed to be delivered tomorrow afternoon. Going to lowes to get some mirror mounts to set up her sky hide. So freaking pumped! Deluge of pics to follow once I have it set up 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Congratulations on you T25! Could you explain how to make a sky hide? My snakes would love that!  I'm not a handy person, so as many details as possible would be very appreciated.

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## Stearns84

Can't wait to see it!

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## Sauzo

Not real unless there is pics!!  :Razz:

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_jmcrook_ (08-28-2017),_Stearns84_ (08-28-2017)

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## jmcrook

> Congratulations on you T25! Could you explain how to make a sky hide? My snakes would love that!  I'm not a handy person, so as many details as possible would be very appreciated.


I've never actually implemented a sky hide before but I'm doing mine the same way that Reinz does his. Large mirror mounting brackets from lowes secured with #8 3/4" countersink screws. 4 along the back edge of the hide, 3 on each side, and one stop screw at the front so the snake can't push the hide out of the brackets. There's a few threads were he's posted some good pics of them. 


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## jmcrook

> Ali wanted me to relay a message to you since she didnt want to get yelled. They seem to have shipped your cage to a different customer so they will have make you a new one. Should only take 10 weeks since you will be pushed to the front of the line.


LOL if that actually happens I'm going be beside myself in fury, especially after having talked to the shipping company a couple days ago and confirming Tuesday delivery. It could have been here today but I taught classes from 8am-6pm and was on campus til 7 so I couldn't be home to sign off on it and inspect it 


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_Sauzo_ (08-29-2017)

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## Sauzo

Well i look forward to seeing it all set up.

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## Stearns84

> I've never actually implemented a sky hide before but I'm doing mine the same way that Reinz does his. Large mirror mounting brackets from lowes secured with #8 3/4" countersink screws. 4 along the back edge of the hide, 3 on each side, and one stop screw at the front so the snake can't push the hide out of the brackets. There's a few threads were he's posted some good pics of them. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I couldn't find anything on this, you have a picture of how it's supposed to look?

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## BR8080

> Ali wanted me to relay a message to you since she didnt want to get yelled. They seem to have shipped your cage to a different customer so they will have make you a new one. Should only take 10 weeks since you will be pushed to the front of the line.


 :ROFL:  :ROFL:  :ROFL:  :ROFL:  :ROFL:  :ROFL:  :ROFL:  :ROFL:  :ROFL: 




> Congratulations on you T25! Could you explain how to make a sky hide? My snakes would love that!  I'm not a handy person, so as many details as possible would be very appreciated.


I can explain it to you Wed if you need further explanation. I'll put a link below....




> I couldn't find anything on this, you have a picture of how it's supposed to look?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Reinz did a nice job with this and I can't wait to try it one day when I decide on what carpet to add to my collection.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...hlight=skyhide

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_jmcrook_ (08-29-2017)

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## Sauzo

I'll be interested to see how it holds up the weight of a retic. I know carpets are decent size but maybe the kalatoa is comparable. I imagine Caesar is pretty heavy so I imagine the hide would buckle and collapse under his fat behind haha.

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Gio (08-29-2017)

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## Gio

My cage should arrive today as well. 
House party time!!😊

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_jmcrook_ (08-29-2017)

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## Stearns84

> I'll be interested to see how it holds up the weight of a retic. I know carpets are decent size but maybe the kalatoa is comparable. I imagine Caesar is pretty heavy so I imagine the hide would buckle and collapse under his fat behind haha.


I weighed Gene last night, he is 7.8lbs. I'd assume Caesar is more than that.  I just cheated,  weighed myself then grabbed him. 

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## jmcrook

> I'll be interested to see how it holds up the weight of a retic. I know carpets are decent size but maybe the kalatoa is comparable. I imagine Caesar is pretty heavy so I imagine the hide would buckle and collapse under his fat behind haha.


I'm thinking that if I install everything securely it should be fine. Reinz says one of his carpets is 13.5lbs and the sky hide hold up just fine with 4 mounts in the back and 3 on each side. Phyllis is close to 8lbs so I don't think it will be an issue. I may give Gerald a sky hide in Phyllis's T8, even though it's pretty short I feel like he'd make good use of it.


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## Sauzo

> I'm thinking that if I install everything securely it should be fine. Reinz says one of his carpets is 13.5lbs and the sky hide hold up just fine with 4 mounts in the back and 3 on each side. Phyllis is close to 8lbs so I don't think it will be an issue. I may give Gerald a sky hide in Phyllis's T8, even though it's pretty short I feel like he'd make good use of it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm sure he would. To a snake it doesnt seem that the height really matters as long as they feel like they are off the ground. Heck my gals seems happy when perched on top of their hides. It's only like 3" high but to them i guess it feels they are up in the air/ Same with the shelves.

And wow, those things hold a 13.5 lb carpet? Those are pretty strong clips lol. Rosey weighs 13.7 lbs. One of these days I'll weigh Caesar.

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## jmcrook

Currently setting up the cage. It's assembled and sealed but the shelf totally blocks all light from the led strip... gonna have to mount a longer piece around the perimeter and seal it in place with the lexel sealant... pics in a bit hopefully.


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Addiction (08-29-2017),_Stearns84_ (08-30-2017)

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## jmcrook

Aaaaaaaaand I quit for today because I have to teach for ten hours tomorrow starting at 8am, just spent and hour lexel sealing a strip of LEDs around the perimeter of the cage, only to plug them in and find out that at some point during that installation the light strip got a short in it somewhere... just Goo Gone cleaned all the lexel off, have to order a new strip of lights... oh my god I'm done for the day. Oh and they put my heat panel on the wrong side of the cage that i requested too. I cannot win today 


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## Sauzo

> Aaaaaaaaand I quit for today because I have to teach for ten hours tomorrow starting at 8am, just spent and hour lexel sealing a strip of LEDs around the perimeter of the cage, only to plug them in and find out that at some point during that installation the light strip got a short in it somewhere... just Goo Gone cleaned all the lexel off, have to order a new strip of lights... oh my god I'm done for the day. Oh and they put my heat panel on the wrong side of the cage that i requested too. I cannot win today 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Dang man. Yeah the 10" wide shelf does block a lot of the light. It works for me though as i still can see in there fine.

Try and get the water resistant ones. They are beefier. After having 4 sets of lights burn out on me in one way or another, Ali had the guys in the back put together their experimental water resistant ones to send me as like i told Ali, i think the humidity/condensation is getting up above the LEDs as the recess for them is the highest point in the cage. Then it is turning to liquid drops and dripping on the LED strip and somehow shorting them out after a few months since i keep my boas and retic at around 70-80% humidity.

And you know, now that I look at it, I kind of wish I went with the T65 for Caesar. When he is all stretched out, he is longer than the cage lol. I might be ordering a T65 next summer and using the T25 for Gina when she gets bigger.....

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## BR8080

> Currently setting up the cage. It's assembled and sealed but the shelf totally blocks all light from the led strip... gonna have to mount a longer piece around the perimeter and seal it in place with the lexel sealant... pics in a bit hopefully.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I noticed that as well with the shelf and RHP it blocks the LED output....oh well..live and learn I guess.

About your RHP - I bet if you call Ali she'll ship you a new top PRONTO.

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## jmcrook

> Dang man. Yeah the 10" wide shelf does block a lot of the light. It works for me though as i still can see in there fine.
> 
> Try and get the water resistant ones. They are beefier. After having 4 sets of lights burn out on me in one way or another, Ali had the guys in the back put together their experimental water resistant ones to send me as like i told Ali, i think the humidity/condensation is getting up above the LEDs as the recess for them is the highest point in the cage. Then it is turning to liquid drops and dripping on the LED strip and somehow shorting them out after a few months since i keep my boas and retic at around 70-80% humidity.
> 
> And you know, now that I look at it, I kind of wish I went with the T65 for Caesar. When he is all stretched out, he is longer than the cage lol. I might be ordering a T65 next summer and using the T25 for Gina when she gets bigger.....


Yeah, I've got waterproof LEDs. I think they just got bent at some point near the connection pins and frayed a wire internally. They flickered a couple times but couldn't get them to stay on so I peeled it all off and ordered new ones, which won't be here til next week. At which point I'll have to seal them in place and wait for the sealant to cure... might be another couple weeks before I can use this dang cage. So frustrating. I mean I could just roll with the lights I have installed in the ceiling groove but they only really illuminate the shelf and maybe a couple inches at the front of the cage. We'll see what happens. The custom raised door track looks freaking awesome though 


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## Sauzo

> Yeah, I've got waterproof LEDs. I think they just got bent at some point near the connection pins and frayed a wire internally. They flickered a couple times but couldn't get them to stay on so I peeled it all off and ordered new ones, which won't be here til next week. At which point I'll have to seal them in place and wait for the sealant to cure... might be another couple weeks before I can use this dang cage. So frustrating. I mean I could just roll with the lights I have installed in the ceiling groove but they only really illuminate the shelf and maybe a couple inches at the front of the cage. We'll see what happens. The custom raised door track looks freaking awesome though 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Lets see pics of it.

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Addiction (08-31-2017),_Stearns84_ (08-30-2017)

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## jmcrook

Got new lights installed and man does it make a huge difference. 

Before...

After! So much better.

And the custom raised track! Phyllis can still smash her face against that middle post but no more jamming her face between the door and the litter dam and I don't have to make a door jam to fill that space. I can finally use the left door of Phyllis's cage for the first time in like 9 months! Woohoo! Tons more pics once the sealant cures and I get her set up in there


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Addiction (08-31-2017),_BR8080_ (08-31-2017),Gio (08-30-2017),_Sauzo_ (08-31-2017),_Stearns84_ (08-30-2017)

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## Stearns84

> Got new lights installed and man does it make a huge difference. 
> 
> Before...
> 
> After! So much better.
> 
> And the custom raised track! Phyllis can still smash her face against that middle post but no more jamming her face between the door and the litter dam and I don't have to make a door jam to fill that space. I can finally use the left door of Phyllis's cage for the first time in like 9 months! Woohoo! Tons more pics once the sealant cures and I get her set up in there
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Damn that is sexy as hell. I love the skyhide. I'd like to see more photos of it in use! I don't regret getting my T10 for Gene, but that is amazing looking. Can we get some full pictures from a distance? What's your layout plans, going to keep it simple? Where did you put the probe? I put mine on the cold side and have had zero problems.

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_jmcrook_ (08-30-2017)

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## Gio

You kicked some a$$ on that buddy!

Set up and sealed quickly. Mine is still in the boxes and I'll be getting to work on it hopefully Sunday, Monday and Tuesday. The unit weighs 120 pounds and I've got backgrounds, perches, lights and sealer to put in.

Your photo session has me antsy to start up.

It looks great over there and I'm sure your girl will take to the sky hide quickly!

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_jmcrook_ (08-30-2017)

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## jmcrook

Haven't got the panel running yet but planning to put the probe either cool side or center of the cage. I lucked out and they sent it assembled, I think because I waited 22 weeks. Definitely more pics once it's up and running. It's surprisingly not that heavy for its size. Maybe 60-70lbs?


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## Sauzo

Nice. I like that raised door. My problem never was really the litter dam for Caesar. He always pushes on that center brace right where the 2 panes of glass split. It's like the draft of air there makes him push when he is hungry lol. You went for the stand also? And now you need one for Gerald  :Razz: 

And yeah, they aren't that heavy really for how sturdy and thick they are. I was able to lift them myself and stack them.

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_Stearns84_ (08-30-2017)

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## jmcrook

> Nice. I like that raised door. My problem never was really the litter dam for Caesar. He always pushes on that center brace right where the 2 panes of glass split. It's like the draft of air there makes him push when he is hungry lol. You went for the stand also? And now you need one for Gerald 
> 
> And yeah, they aren't that heavy really for how sturdy and thick they are. I was able to lift them myself and stack them.


Nah, no stand. I've got big wire shelves on casters as my stand so I can get behind them easily if/when needed. Honestly I think Gerald won't need anything bigger than a 4x2 footprint. Maybe a 48"x30"x18" someday but he still fits fine in a 36" cage right now, he's tiny haha! He'd be lost in a 6' long cage.
I'm so stoked to be able to use the left door of Phyllis's cage now. I'm sure she'll still push at the center post but at least she won't rip up the bottom of her jaw in that go between the door and the litter dam like she did in the past. I'll probably get her in the T25 by this weekend. 


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## Sauzo

> Nah, no stand. I've got big wire shelves on casters as my stand so I can get behind them easily if/when needed. Honestly I think Gerald won't need anything bigger than a 4x2 footprint. Maybe a 48"x30"x18" someday but he still fits fine in a 36" cage right now, he's tiny haha! He'd be lost in a 6' long cage.
> I'm so stoked to be able to use the left door of Phyllis's cage now. I'm sure she'll still push at the center post but at least she won't rip up the bottom of her jaw in that go between the door and the litter dam like she did in the past. I'll probably get her in the T25 by this weekend. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ah, that looked like the AP stand on the bottom of the cage. And yeah, now Phyllis will do like Caesar and flatten half her face and split her lip by pushing on the center brace lol.

And look forward to seeing the new set up.

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## BR8080

Looks AWESOME....great job, can't wait to see it in action.

I like the idea of the raised track....and lights in front instead of the rear.

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## jmcrook

> Ah, that looked like the AP stand on the bottom of the cage. And yeah, now Phyllis will do like Caesar and flatten half her face and split her lip by pushing on the center brace lol.
> 
> And look forward to seeing the new set up.


Oh she's got the face flattening trick down pretty good unfortunately. Hopefully with an arboreal hide and a huge shelf now she'll have more entertainment 


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_Stearns84_ (08-31-2017)

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## jmcrook

> Looks AWESOME....great job, can't wait to see it in action.
> 
> I like the idea of the raised track....and lights in front instead of the rear.


Thanks! I'm probably going to get it set up tonight or tomorrow sometime. 
After seeing how the raised track turned out I don't see why they wouldn't do that as a standard feature 


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_BR8080_ (09-01-2017)

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## Sauzo

> Thanks! I'm probably going to get it set up tonight or tomorrow sometime. 
> After seeing how the raised track turned out I don't see why they wouldn't do that as a standard feature 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Maybe if there is a gap between the litter dam and that raised section, if the snake pisses or lets a juicy poop rip on top there, it will seep down between and be impossible to clean? /shrug

And snakes will poop in the track!!! Just look at my Gina thread and you will see a pic of her ripping a juicy one in the track the first night i got her lol.

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## Sauzo

And I am really curious how they built up that track level with the litter dam. Can you take some more pics or explain it? Did they cut a section of PVC that matched the height of the litter dam and then you just screw it in place on the floor and sides? Like a double center brace piece? I do like it and i would probably run a small bead of Lexel along it to seal any gap there and then wet finger smooth it in as that Lexel stuff is like concrete once it dries haha.

And it does kind of make me wonder why they dont do it on all the cages except for reason i mentioned above maybe.

Oh and another thing, did it cost extra? 

I'm curious because if I have to get Caesar a T65 next summer, I might have them build me something like that too but I'd rather pick your brain and see how they did for you rather than bug Ali considering I call her every month usually to tell her the non waterproof LEDs need to go as I got another one burned out lol.

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## Stearns84

> And I am really curious how they built up that track level with the litter dam. Can you take some more pics or explain it? Did they cut a section of PVC that matched the height of the litter dam and then you just screw it in place on the floor and sides? Like a double center brace piece? I do like it and i would probably run a small bead of Lexel along it to seal any gap there and then wet finger smooth it in as that Lexel stuff is like concrete once it dries haha.
> 
> And it does kind of make me wonder why they dont do it on all the cages except for reason i mentioned above maybe.
> 
> Oh and another thing, did it cost extra? 
> 
> I'm curious because if I have to get Caesar a T65 next summer, I might have them build me something like that too but I'd rather pick your brain and see how they did for you rather than bug Ali considering I call her every month usually to tell her the non waterproof LEDs need to go as I got another one burned out lol.


Looking at my T10, is guess they shortened the height of the glass and raised the track mount. So the glass is probably slightly larger that the litter dam.

But pure speculation on my part. 

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## jmcrook

> And I am really curious how they built up that track level with the litter dam. Can you take some more pics or explain it? Did they cut a section of PVC that matched the height of the litter dam and then you just screw it in place on the floor and sides? Like a double center brace piece? I do like it and i would probably run a small bead of Lexel along it to seal any gap there and then wet finger smooth it in as that Lexel stuff is like concrete once it dries haha.
> 
> And it does kind of make me wonder why they dont do it on all the cages except for reason i mentioned above maybe.
> 
> Oh and another thing, did it cost extra? 
> 
> I'm curious because if I have to get Caesar a T65 next summer, I might have them build me something like that too but I'd rather pick your brain and see how they did for you rather than bug Ali considering I call her every month usually to tell her the non waterproof LEDs need to go as I got another one burned out lol.


Yeah basically just a doubled up litter dam with the track on top. The grooves of the track are perfectly flush with the top level of the litter dam. I couldn't be happier with how it turned out. Did it for no extra cost, but be prepared to wait an extra two and a half months for that modification hahahah! 
I'm sure it stands the risk of being pooped/peed in but it's no more of a risk of that happening than with the regular door tracks.
If I ever order another cage with a shelf I'm going to see if they can cut the LED groove at the front of the cage. I just drilled a hole for my new lights through the side vents and then put them along the top edge of the cage on the sides and front. Soooooo much more adequately lighted for cleaning and stuff now 


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_Sauzo_ (08-31-2017)

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## jmcrook

> Looking at my T10, is guess they shortened the height of the glass and raised the track mount. So the glass is probably slightly larger that the litter dam.
> 
> But pure speculation on my part. 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Yep, raised the bottom track and then shortened the glass doors by the same amount.


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## jmcrook

> Maybe if there is a gap between the litter dam and that raised section, if the snake pisses or lets a juicy poop rip on top there, it will seep down between and be impossible to clean? /shrug
> 
> And snakes will poop in the track!!! Just look at my Gina thread and you will see a pic of her ripping a juicy one in the track the first night i got her lol.


I suppose that could happen but I don't think it would be any different than if a pee/poop happened in the standard sliding door tracks. 


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## Stearns84

When you did the skybide, did your bolts penetrate through the top?

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## jmcrook

> When you did the skybide, did your bolts penetrate through the top?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Nope. I followed Reinz install method to a T. Got the bigger sets of mirror mounting brackets from Lowes and screwed them in place with 3/4" countersink #8 screws. They probably go about 5/16" of the way into the cage ceiling. I just placed the hide where I wanted it, and then screwed in the mounts for two out of three sides. The third side I made sure was fairly snug against the hide so it won't slide out too easily. I can still slide it in and out without any issue but it's snug enough that it won't be easily bumped out of the brackets. I am prepared to use a stop screw at the front of the hide in the event that Phyllis manages to move it forward at all. Leaving it secured on 3 out of 4 sides for the time being just so I can take it out easily if necessary.

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## Stearns84

> Nope. I followed Reinz install method to a T. Got the bigger sets of mirror mounting brackets from Lowes and screwed them in place with 3/4" countersink #8 screws. They probably go about 5/16" of the way into the cage ceiling. I just placed the hide where I wanted it, and then screwed in the mounts for two out of three sides. The third side I made sure was fairly snug against the hide so it won't slide out too easily. I can still slide it in and out without any issue but it's snug enough that it won't be easily bumped out of the brackets. I am prepared to use a stop screw at the front of the hide in the event that Phyllis manages to move it forward at all. Leaving it secured on 3 out of 4 sides for the time being just so I can take it out easily if necessary.


Do you have a link to the write up. I looked at the carpet python thread but it was just a little vague (to me at least). 

Are you using the xl hide?

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## Addiction

> Yeah basically just a doubled up litter dam with the track on top. The grooves of the track are perfectly flush with the top level of the litter dam. I couldn't be happier with how it turned out. Did it for no extra cost, but be prepared to wait an extra two and a half months for that modification hahahah! 
> I'm sure it stands the risk of being pooped/peed in but it's no more of a risk of that happening than with the regular door tracks.
> If I ever order another cage with a shelf I'm going to see if they can cut the LED groove at the front of the cage. I just drilled a hole for my new lights through the side vents and then put them along the top edge of the cage on the sides and front. Soooooo much more adequately lighted for cleaning and stuff now 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Looking good so far! Any chance you could snap some pics of how you routed/did the lights, and how it looks in there with them turned on with a shelf in there? The way you went about it sounds like how I was planning to do my AP cage when it gets here, so it would be amazing to see it beforehand. Thanks!

PS: Phyllis better be happy and behave in this one!  :Laughing:

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_jmcrook_ (08-31-2017)

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## jmcrook

> Do you have a link to the write up. I looked at the carpet python thread but it was just a little vague (to me at least). 
> 
> Are you using the xl hide?
> 
> Sent from my QTAQZ3 using Tapatalk


I messaged him and he gave me a very precise explanation of how he went about it. Check out the thread "boa enclosure size" and he's got some good pics and notes.
And yeah, I've got the RBI xl hides


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_Stearns84_ (08-31-2017)

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## DLena

Thank you. I'll look for them. It's a fantastic idea.


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_jmcrook_ (08-31-2017)

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## jmcrook

I think someone needs a bigger water bowl... 
Only an inch and a half of water or so in the bowl and her fat behind is spilling it over the edge hah. Time for a trip to TSC for an 8qt bowl I suppose 


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Addiction (08-31-2017),_Stearns84_ (08-31-2017)

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## Sauzo

I see everyone elses snakes soak in bowls yet all of mine never sit in their bowls.....i feel kind of robbed  :Sad:

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_Stearns84_ (09-01-2017)

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## jmcrook

> I see everyone elses snakes soak in bowls yet all of mine never sit in their bowls.....i feel kind of robbed


lol don't feel too left out. Phyllis is my only snake that does that and it's exclusively immediately after feeding. Maybe after a shed on occasion. I've caught Geoffrey in his bowl one time in almost 8 years haha! Gerald never but his bowl isn't big enough 


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## Stearns84

When can we anticipate Phyllis's first night in her new enclosure?  Can't wait to see it complete!  What was the cost for the enclosure w/ shipping if you don't mind me asking?

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## jmcrook

> When can we anticipate Phyllis's first night in her new enclosure?  Can't wait to see it complete!  What was the cost for the enclosure w/ shipping if you don't mind me asking?


Currently aiming for a move in day tomorrow.  I fed all three snakes last night so they get all of today to chill and tomorrow I'll move everyone around and stack all three cages. Going to be Geoffrey up top as I don't really want either of the retics at face level and then Gerald in the middle and Phyllis below in the big cage. Making last touches on the new cage, securing thermostat probes and deciding on thermometer placements and such. I think the cage was like $465 (locks, shelf, LED recessed channel) and shipping was around $160. 


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_Stearns84_ (09-01-2017)

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## jmcrook

I already posted some pics in the cage thread but here's some for this thread of Phyllis checking out the new apartment haha

Still hasn't completely gone into the sky hide but she's scoped it out a couple times. I feel like she'll get in there eventually. Watching her cruise around really makes it obvious how much she had outgrown her T8.


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Addiction (09-02-2017)

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## Stearns84

How is Phyllis with the new enclosures? I ordered a new hide for a skyhide, hope Gene will use it. I made his pvc more of a shelf now and he doesn't use it. Just mopes around on the floor.

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## jmcrook

> How is Phyllis with the new enclosures? I ordered a new hide for a skyhide, hope Gene will use it. I made his pvc more of a shelf now and he doesn't use it. Just mopes around on the floor.
> 
> Sent from my QTAQZ3 using Tapatalk


She seems to like her shelf a good bit. Found her sleeping up there the last couple mornings. Still hasn't used her sky hide though... she fits in the xl reptile basics hides when they're on the floor but hasn't used the ceiling mounted one. I'm going to leave it and see if she uses it eventually. Gerald's been camping out in his everyday haha! I think he's going into shed though 


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_Stearns84_ (09-07-2017)

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## jmcrook

Finally got a new measurement on Phyllis... Gio called it! Roughly 8.5'. Didn't get pics of her next to the tape measure because she's always on the move but man... she likes to grow! 

Bonus pic of her colors super fired up last night.
Such a funny animal, she has three hides now including one on the ceiling, she sleeps either on her shelf or behind the water bowl in plain sight. You do you Phyllis hahah


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_BR8080_ (09-10-2017),GreenTea (09-10-2017)

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## BR8080

What a looker...WOW

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_jmcrook_ (09-10-2017)

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## Stearns84

Ohh I know that feeling. I almost regret ordering gene is skyhide because he doesn't use the one he has now. This is every day and night. 

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_jmcrook_ (09-10-2017)

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## jmcrook

> I almost regret ordering gene is skyhide because he doesn't use the one he has now.


Lol I hear ya! Phyllis is off and on with her hides but mostly off. She's used her warm side twice in the new cage, cool side once. Really likes it right behind her water bowl though haha, maybe I'll get her a bigger one. I'm sure she'd like a full soak after her next meal, that's the only time she soaks but it's every single time immediately after she eats without exception hah


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## Stearns84

Speaking of eating, I'm not sure what to feed Gene. The larges don't leave lumps almost at all, and he pushes after 3 days. Do I go with xl rats, Ginnie Pigs or find small rabits?

What's Phyllis on now?

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## jmcrook

> Speaking of eating, I'm not sure what to feed Gene. The larges don't leave lumps almost at all, and he pushes after 3 days. Do I go with xl rats, Ginnie Pigs or find small rabits?
> 
> What's Phyllis on now?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Phyllis is currently eating xl rats but could easily take two of them probably. She's got some 2xl in the freezer but I've got a handful xl left before those. I have no doubt that Gene could take somewhere between xl-and jumbo rats if he's as big as he looks. Phyllis ate an xl 3-4 days ago and you can't tell she ate a thing. She might actually get two xl's next week, we'll see.
Her next size increase I'm going to either order guinea pigs, probably quadruple xl, or try to get rabbits. Monster Feeders has best rabbit prices around but I don't need that many at once so I might stick to rodent pro and go the guinea pig route. They're not terrible prices really. I think $5 for a 1.5lb Guinea pig?


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_Stearns84_ (09-11-2017)

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## jmcrook

Well, Phyllis is too big for my reptile dedicated scale now. Have to use the bathroom scale and weigh myself then pick her up to get a weigh in... she's at right about 10 lbs and is now 19 months old. 
Even a 2xl rat only holds her over for about 5-6 days at most now. Need to get rabbits or guinea pigs soon!


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Deu2e (09-17-2017),Gio (09-17-2017),_MR Snakes_ (12-13-2018),_Prognathodon_ (09-18-2017),_Sauzo_ (09-22-2017),_Stearns84_ (09-17-2017)

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## Stearns84

Nice! 

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## Gio

> Well, Phyllis is too big for my reptile dedicated scale now. Have to use the bathroom scale and weigh myself then pick her up to get a weigh in... she's at right about 10 lbs and is now 19 months old. 
> Even a 2xl rat only holds her over for about 5-6 days at most now. Need to get rabbits or guinea pigs soon!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Awesomeness!!

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_jmcrook_ (09-17-2017)

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## Sauzo

> Speaking of eating, I'm not sure what to feed Gene. The larges don't leave lumps almost at all, and he pushes after 3 days. Do I go with xl rats, Ginnie Pigs or find small rabits?
> 
> What's Phyllis on now?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


I feed Caesar an XL guinea pig every 10 days or so. He was eating 2XL ones but i wanted to slim it down to the smallest food i could give him that would keep him quiet for 10 days or so. He also gets colossal rats if they are out of guinea pigs. I believe the last time i weighed his food, it was around 450g.

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_Stearns84_ (09-22-2017)

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## jmcrook

> I feed Caesar an XL guinea pig every 10 days or so. He was eating 2XL ones but i wanted to slim it down to the smallest food i could give him that would keep him quiet for 10 days or so. He also gets colossal rats if they are out of guinea pigs. I believe the last time i weighed his food, it was around 450g.


I just gave Phyllis two XL rats the other day they weighed collectively just under 600grams. Now about 4 days later you can't even tell she had a meal this week... I was thinking about ordering guinea pigs for her but have heard differing opinions on using them as a primary prey option. Have you noticed any pros/cons to feeding Caesar mostly guinea pigs?


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## Sauzo

> I just gave Phyllis two XL rats the other day they weighed collectively just under 600grams. Now about 4 days later you can't even tell she had a meal this week... I was thinking about ordering guinea pigs for her but have heard differing opinions on using them as a primary prey option. Have you noticed any pros/cons to feeding Caesar mostly guinea pigs?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I haven't noticed anything different with feeding Caesar guinea pigs. What have you heard? And yeah, even with Caesar, a XL guinea pig lump is gone in a few days too but it still seems to keep him quiet although Caesar is pretty needy lol. Sometimes he really wants to 'hang out' so he will push until you slide open a door and then he will park himself in front of the open door and curl up by it as I pet him haha.

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## jmcrook

> I haven't noticed anything different with feeding Caesar guinea pigs. What have you heard? And yeah, even with Caesar, a XL guinea pig lump is gone in a few days too but it still seems to keep him quiet although Caesar is pretty needy lol. Sometimes he really wants to 'hang out' so he will push until you slide open a door and then he will park himself in front of the open door and curl up by it as I pet him haha.


Just have heard varying opinions on whether the higher fat content of gp can lead to fat snakes in the long run. I think with retics metabolism it shouldn't be a huge issue though. Phyllis is already cruising her cage at day four after eating 600grams of rat haha. She's been enjoying a nice cruise in either the yard or the snake room for an hour ish every other day or so and that seems to make her happy 


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## Sauzo

> Just have heard varying opinions on whether the higher fat content of gp can lead to fat snakes in the long run. I think with retics metabolism it shouldn't be a huge issue though. Phyllis is already cruising her cage at day four after eating 600grams of rat haha. She's been enjoying a nice cruise in either the yard or the snake room for an hour ish every other day or so and that seems to make her happy 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ah. Yeah I vary it. Caesar gets rats or guinea pigs. Rats don't keep him nearly as quiet for as long though. And I leave his door open when I'm watching tv or playing PS4 so he lowers himself to the floor and wanders around when he wants. I still have to snake proof a couple things in the room so I cant really just let him wander anywhere in the room yet.

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_jmcrook_ (09-23-2017)

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## Addiction

Hey jmcrook, the little ones (or I guess now the not so little ones  :Laughing: ) are looking good and happy! Question for you - have you ever had any issues with the T8 and the RHP when Phyllis was still in there in terms of the height, and how close she was to it due to her size? And by that, I mean Phyllis having extended contact with the RHP. 

Also, what do you keep your snake room/area temps at? Our setups are almost identical and I want to see how your T8 holds up with the RHP - we keep the house between 72 and 74, usually closer to 74. Haven't had any issues with smaller cages, but the T8 is curing right now and I'll only be using the RHP as of now (unless there ends up being any ambient/cool end issues). I'm just not sure if it is enough alone with the jump in cage size. Thanks for your help my man!

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## jmcrook

> Hey jmcrook, the little ones (or I guess now the not so little ones ) are looking good and happy! Question for you - have you ever had any issues with the T8 and the RHP when Phyllis was still in there in terms of the height, and how close she was to it due to her size? And by that, I mean Phyllis having extended contact with the RHP. 
> 
> Also, what do you keep your snake room/area temps at? Our setups are almost identical and I want to see how your T8 holds up with the RHP - we keep the house between 72 and 74, usually closer to 74. Haven't had any issues with smaller cages, but the T8 is curing right now and I'll only be using the RHP as of now (unless there ends up being any ambient/cool end issues). I'm just not sure if it is enough alone with the jump in cage size. Thanks for your help my man!


Definitely not so little anymore! Pretty sure Phyllis is trying to break whatever the record could for world's largest super dwarf. I wouldn't be surprised if she hits 10' 
I haven't had any issues with the RHP in either of the T8s. My room also stays in the low to mid 70*range, I have the herpstat probes threaded through the power cord hole for the heat panels hanging just barely behind them and dangle the probe about halfway down the cage height and set at 87*. Gives a hotspot around 88-90* and keeps cool side around 79-81*. 
As far as extended exposure to the hotspot, Phyllis is very proactive about self regulating her temps, pushes any/everything out of her way to get to the area she wants haha! She really only hangs out under the panel after eating for the first night and part of the next day usually. In her T25 she's been sleeping on the shelf under the panel after meals. 
Gerald is in her T8 now with a new sky hide and he basically just stays in there aside from when he comes out to destroy everything every night. I think he's demanding larger rats lol. Mediums are barely cutting it for him now. But yeah, he rarely uses the hide under the RHP. Might drop the temp a degree or two and see if that changes.


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Addiction (09-29-2017)

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## jmcrook

Fresh shed from Phyllis today. Was in shed for over a week and at 6-7 weeks since her last shed cycle. Longest she's gone since I've had her. Full shed measured a little over 10'! Of course there was significant stretch but it impressed me nonetheless.

100qt Hefty tub from lowes for size reference. Still between 8-9'ish and around the 10lb mark or so 


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_cletus_ (10-12-2017),_MD_Pythons_ (10-23-2017),o.r hill (11-05-2017),_Sauzo_ (10-12-2017),_Stearns84_ (10-14-2017)

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## Sauzo

Dang she is filling out. Looks good.

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_jmcrook_ (10-14-2017)

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## jmcrook

Super fired up and showing off her iridescence in the natural light while out for some exercise earlier this afternoon.


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_MD_Pythons_ (10-23-2017),_Sauzo_ (10-15-2017),_Stearns84_ (10-15-2017)

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## Stearns84

Beautiful! Damn it's 55* today and rained like 7" in the last 2 days. 

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## Addiction

Hey Jmcrook,

Did you use the supplied bolts from the Pro-Products rhps to attach them to your AP cages? Or were you able to find some screws that would attach them without going through the top of cage for ease of stacking purposes? Looks like your cages are flush, and I'm trying to not have to put holes through the top of the cage with the supplied bolts if I don't have to. Thanks man!

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## jmcrook

> Hey Jmcrook,
> 
> Did you use the supplied bolts from the Pro-Products rhps to attach them to your AP cages? Or were you able to find some screws that would attach them without going through the top of cage for ease of stacking purposes? Looks like your cages are flush, and I'm trying to not have to put holes through the top of the cage with the supplied bolts if I don't have to. Thanks man!


I actually had all three of my Pro-Heat panels drop shipped to AP and had them install them. Not sure if they use the same bolts or not. I can't remember on my T25 but I know the two T8s have one hole in the ceiling of the cage with a bolt in it. I believe they router a long channel with one hole to feed the bolts through, lightly tighten the first, then slide the panel into place and feed the second bolt in through the ceiling and tighten them. Hard to describe without a visual component haha, and I'm only describing what I think it is that they do to install the panels. Hope this is helpful!

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Addiction (10-23-2017)

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## jmcrook

Significant update on Phyllis. A few weeks ago she smashed her lip in striking at her rat. Didn't think much of it as she's done that before and I corrected itself in a week or so. She then went into shed, lip got a little better but still a tad swollen and hadn't been pushing. Wasn't too concerned until I saw a little pus spot on her gums when she ate the other day. Looked in her mouth and there was definitely some cheesy matter so I prepared a few q-tips with betadine and went to clean it up. Dug out a big chunk of gunk and inside of it were two teeth! Either she broke them when she dented her lip in or they've been broken for a wand may have been the source of her persistent pushing. Either way, going to check on her gums daily with a light betadine clean up to make sure it heals well. She's back on newspaper until her face is back to normal. Surprisingly wasn't the hardest patient to deal with, I expected much more of a fight. She seemed to noticeably calm down when she realized i was trying to get that crud out of her mouth. 

Disgusting mouth crud

One of two teeth lodged in the crud




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_Sauzo_ (10-24-2017),_Tonald Drump_ (11-17-2017)

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## Sauzo

Dang, that sucks. I've always been worried about my snakes slamming the litter dam or cage when eating too. Thats why i hang the stuff in the center of the cage with my BBQ tongs lol.

Caesar has really mellowed on food. He hasent eaten in almost 2 weeks and he isnt pushing at all except at night when he wants the door slid open so he can hang out lol. Luckily he only pushes on one spot and thats the center brace where the door gap is. I think he smells the fresh air and since he wants to hang out outside, he pushes right there. I open the door and rub his body and he comes over to the open door and lays down next to me. Never seen a snake act like a dog haha.

Hopefully Phyllis gets better without having the stress and cash of going to the vet. Good luck man.

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_jmcrook_ (10-24-2017)

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## jmcrook

> Dang, that sucks. I've always been worried about my snakes slamming the litter dam or cage when eating too. Thats why i hang the stuff in the center of the cage with my BBQ tongs lol.
> 
> Caesar has really mellowed on food. He hasent eaten in almost 2 weeks and he isnt pushing at all except at night when he wants the door slid open so he can hang out lol. Luckily he only pushes on one spot and thats the center brace where the door gap is. I think he smells the fresh air and since he wants to hang out outside, he pushes right there. I open the door and rub his body and he comes over to the open door and lays down next to me. Never seen a snake act like a dog haha.
> 
> Hopefully Phyllis gets better without having the stress and cash of going to the vet. Good luck man.


Thanks dude! I'm totally prepared to take her to the vet if it doesn't get better but yeah, wanted to save the stress on her part. I'll shell out the cash if needed but my friend that's bred SD for some time said to just clean the gunk out, keep her fed, and she should be fine. Got the same vibe from past discussions on the retic nation page.
Yeah her rat was hanging from the rings in the left center of the cage and she missed and hit the left wall. She's too quick to be able to get it into the actual center of the cage haha.
Why do they love to push at that center post of the AP cages?! Phyllis and Gerald both do that! 
I'll keep the thread updated with her mouth healing if there's any noticeable changes soon


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## Sauzo

Haha, yeah like i said, Caesar has mellowed on food a lot. He isnt all psycho anymore but he will still eat.

I think they push the center because theres that air gap between the 2 sliding doors so they sense and feel the air flow there and so try and push there.

I really think Caesar is close to being done with his 'growing' per say. Like i mentioned, hes' mellowed on food, filled out and now is a lounger lol.

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_jmcrook_ (10-24-2017)

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## jmcrook

This freak show of an animal... two weeks ago pulled two broken teeth out of her face. Healed up just fine. Last night hits her rat so hard she snagged a tooth through her lip, in the same spot. 
Let it go overnight to see if she could fix it on her own. Nope... had to hold her down and unhook it just now. Man was she thrilled about that. Looking back to normal. How about we scale back on the freight train feeding response, eh? Lol 



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C.Marie (12-05-2017)

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## AbsoluteApril

One of our yearling tics just did this a few weeks ago, so annoying and I feel bad for them all at the same time! She shed and the mark on her lip is gone thank goodness.
Glad you got her unstuck!
Calm down girl, you'll get the rat! haah silly tics

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_jmcrook_ (11-07-2017)

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## Stearns84

We need updates!

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_jmcrook_ (11-24-2017),_Team Slytherin_ (11-24-2017)

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## jmcrook

> We need updates!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Lol as you wish Steve! 
Nothing real exciting to update aside from the fact that her broken teeth from a month ago healed up just fine with no need to see the vet. She just shed last week and gave me 10' of perfect shed. 

She doesn't seem to be putting on length nearly a much anymore but my god... I swear she puts on more weight everyday. She's close to doubled her weight in the last 5-6 months and weighs every bit of 13lbs or more now. Close to the thickness of my forearm 


Not the best lighting in this pic but more to give a sense of scale, that tub is a 100qt hefty tub from lowes, about 35-36" long. She's a beast, close to 9'.


Terrible reflection on the glass doors but just wanted to show that she somehow still fits in a reptile basics xl hide. Been camped out in her cool side hide for 4 days after her last meal and still hasn't peed. Probably opening the flood gates as we speak just to spite this post hahah. 
Newest rodent pro order is in the freezer and she's bumping up to xxxl rats and an occasional 4xl guinea pig as a treat. She may be able to go 10+ days after one of them but only time will tell


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_Sauzo_ (11-24-2017),_Stearns84_ (11-26-2017)

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## Sauzo

Lol i think Caesar quit growing. He hasnt shed in a while now.

And dang, Phyllis is getting big. She eats double the size of Caesar now haha. You might need to start looking into piglets from Monster Feeders or rabbits.

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## jmcrook

Tried to see if the beast would go past 7 days without eating... she's been raising absolute hell for two days almost nonstop starting at about day 5. Was going to let her keep going til day ten but the top of her face started swelling a bit from pushing. Guess she's getting another 3xl rat on a 7 day schedule. I don't know how other people push them back to every two weeks by their second birthday. Phyllis is having none of it. I just don't want her to get fat and sluggish and live a shortened lifespan. Anywho, here she is wrapped around a 560gram rat


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_Sauzo_ (12-05-2017),_Stearns84_ (12-05-2017)

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## Sauzo

> Tried to see if the beast would go past 7 days without eating... she's been raising absolute hell for two days almost nonstop starting at about day 5. Was going to let her keep going til day ten but the top of her face started swelling a bit from pushing. Guess she's getting another 3xl rat on a 7 day schedule. I don't know how other people push them back to every two weeks by their second birthday. Phyllis is having none of it. I just don't want her to get fat and sluggish and live a shortened lifespan. Anywho, here she is wrapped around a 560gram rat
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Haha you ans me both brutha!! I dont know people push males back to 2 -3 weeks. Caesar destroyed his face this when i was asleep i guess as he was quiet in his hide during the day. I noticed one side of his face was swollen and his pits are all torn up. I gave him an XL guinea pig and it quieted him down but he did almost tag me in the process. I tripped backwards over a chair while jumping back as he flipped around from the closed door to the open door and shot out of it like a freakin bullet with mouth open like his baby days. I didnt drop the guinea pig though. Held that sucker in the tongs lol. But anyways, yeah i dont know how people go so long inbetween feedings. I thought i had Caesar set on almost 2 weeks but like i said, i guess he was destroying his face during the night. Back to every 7-10 days again /sigh.

Face it, we got sold pig retics haha.

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_jmcrook_ (12-05-2017)

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## jmcrook

I'm also thinking that she could be fine on smaller meals more frequently. She seems to process a rat of almost any size in about 5 days. Xl, 3xl, whatever. It's fully digested in 5 days. Kinda wish I had ordered xl or 2xl this last feeder order now. Those guinea pigs might be too big actually. I'm sure she could handle them but I don't know that she needs anything that big. Here she is this morning wearing her hide like a hat. 3xl leaves a bigger lump than expected, but it will be gone in a day or two



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_AbsoluteApril_ (12-05-2017),_CALM Pythons_ (12-06-2017),_Godzilla78_ (12-18-2017),_Sauzo_ (12-05-2017)

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## Sauzo

> I'm also thinking that she could be fine on smaller meals more frequently. She seems to process a rat of almost any size in about 5 days. Xl, 3xl, whatever. It's fully digested in 5 days. Kinda wish I had ordered xl or 2xl this last feeder order now. Those guinea pigs might be too big actually. I'm sure she could handle them but I don't know that she needs anything that big. Here she is this morning wearing her hide like a hat. 3xl leaves a bigger lump than expected, but it will be gone in a day or two
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Pretty much what i do. Caesar was easily eating 2XL guinea pigs but within about the same time period as a XL guinea pig, the lumps were gone. I have dropped Caesar down to jumbo rats or XL guinea pigs and just moved it up to every 7-10 days. Smaller meals on a little faster time frame. So far its been 4 days on the XL guinea pig and Caesar is quiet and just chilling in his cool hide.

Is that a jumbo RB hide? If so, Phyllis is HUGE. Caesar still packs himself into half a jumbo hide lol.

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_jmcrook_ (12-05-2017)

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## jmcrook

> Pretty much what i do. Caesar was easily eating 2XL guinea pigs but within about the same time period as a XL guinea pig, the lumps were gone. I have dropped Caesar down to jumbo rats or XL guinea pigs and just moved it up to every 7-10 days. Smaller meals on a little faster time frame. So far its been 4 days on the XL guinea pig and Caesar is quiet and just chilling in his cool hide.
> 
> Is that a jumbo RB hide? If so, Phyllis is HUGE. Caesar still packs himself into half a jumbo hide lol.


Lol nah that's the xl RB hide. Need to order some jumbo hides soon. She's still huge though 
That's a 40" hook that she's crawling over next to 6' of cage


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## jmcrook

Well, psycho McPushface apparently cannot go more than 6-7 days without destroying her face and everything in her cage. 
 disturbing the amount of force she puts into it.
So tonight she took her first 4xl guinea pig. 725 grams. We'll see if she goes longer than a week on this. I have a sneaking suspicion that she'll go into shed soon so that could throw off my observations/trial period on her biggest meal. Took it down no problem though.

Now go to sleep for at least a week and quit smashing your face!


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_Godzilla78_ (12-18-2017),_Sauzo_ (12-11-2017),_Stearns84_ (12-20-2017)

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## Sauzo

Dang that first pic is pretty brutal lol. Does Phyllis use the first 1/3 of her body to stand up with and shove? Caesar does that and its incredible the force he gets behind it. He arches up with the top 1/3 of his body and uses it like a lance to shove into where the air gap is between the 2 doors right at the center brace. his whole 1/3 of the body shakes and shimmies as he applies the force and it rattles all the cage doors in the stack. it's pretty incredible to watch but the damage he does to his face is incredible too lol. he is in shed and ate a XL guinea pig so he is quiet for about 2 weeks haha.

I swear man, we got broken retics haha. I see all these other people with quiet retics and we got the food needy bratty ones hahaha.

And btw Phyllis is HUGE!! She dwarfs Caesar easily or at least the last pic makes it look that way.

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## jmcrook

> Dang that first pic is pretty brutal lol. Does Phyllis use the first 1/3 of her body to stand up with and shove? Caesar does that and its incredible the force he gets behind it. He arches up with the top 1/3 of his body and uses it like a lance to shove into where the air gap is between the 2 doors right at the center brace. his whole 1/3 of the body shakes and shimmies as he applies the force and it rattles all the cage doors in the stack. it's pretty incredible to watch but the damage he does to his face is incredible too lol. he is in shed and ate a XL guinea pig so he is quiet for about 2 weeks haha.
> 
> I swear man, we got broken retics haha. I see all these other people with quiet retics and we got the food needy bratty ones hahaha.
> 
> And btw Phyllis is HUGE!! She dwarfs Caesar easily or at least the last pic makes it look that way.


Yeah dude, braces her face into the center support and then uses at least a third of her body and every ounce of her strength. Whole body shaking and straining against the doors, it's beyond brutal. She's got a swollen left top of her face for about the last week because of it. I love this animal but my god I really wish I knew a way to get her to stop this.
And yeah, she's an absolute monster of a "super dwarf". The perspective in that last pic makes her look a little bigger but she's still huge. The second pic of her eating gives an idea of how big around she is compared to that water bowl. Gotta be about 9' now and somewhere around 15lbs, nearly as thick as a can of beer. I've been tempted to get in touch with Daniel and ask if he held any back from that clutch that got big too. Yodawagon, who hasn't been on here in forever has, or at least had at one point, one of Phyllis's clutch mates and it was getting big quick last he mentioned it.


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## Sauzo

> Yeah dude, braces her face into the center support and then uses at least a third of her body and every ounce of her strength. Whole body shaking and straining against the doors, it's beyond brutal. She's got a swollen left top of her face for about the last week because of it. I love this animal but my god I really wish I knew a way to get her to stop this.
> And yeah, she's an absolute monster of a "super dwarf". The perspective in that last pic makes her look a little bigger but she's still huge. The second pic of her eating gives an idea of how big around she is compared to that water bowl. Gotta be about 9' now and somewhere around 15lbs, nearly as thick as a can of beer. I've been tempted to get in touch with Daniel and ask if he held any back from that clutch that got big too. Yodawagon, who hasn't been on here in forever has, or at least had at one point, one of Phyllis's clutch mates and it was getting big quick last he mentioned it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Haha exactly what Caesar does too. And yeah, Caesar's face has gone down. I think the swelling combined with him going into shed made it look even worse. But when i dragged Caesar out of his hide despite his disapproval of it with the stink eye he gave me, his face is all good now.

And i too wish I could get Caesar to quit pushing all together. He isnt nearly as bad as when he was a baby but still if not fed within 10-12 days, he will start pushing pretty good.

Phyllis is definitely bigger. Caesar is probably about as thick as my wrist and i dont have huge wrists.

Lol you should ask Daniel. Look on the retic FB pages, i think on the breeders and sellers one. I saw a guy who was selling pure Kalatoa and they were like 6 ft long and a couple years old if i remember correctly. Regardless, they were pretty darn small. You probably just got the monster super dwarf like you said haha.

And i was using the water bowl as a reference to her size as Caesar has the same one and he looks about 2/3 the thickness of Phyllis but then again, he's just over 7 ft where as Phyllis is 9 ft lol.

You know i'm leaning more and more towards either an ultra ivory SD retic or a moonglow boa lol. I love the BCC stuff but i just cant get over my love of whitish snakes haha.

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_jmcrook_ (12-12-2017)

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## jmcrook

> Lol you should ask Daniel. Look on the retic FB pages, i think on the breeders and sellers one. I saw a guy who was selling pure Kalatoa and they were like 6 ft long and a couple years old if i remember correctly. Regardless, they were pretty darn small. You probably just got the monster super dwarf like you said haha.
> 
> And i was using the water bowl as a reference to her size as Caesar has the same one and he looks about 2/3 the thickness of Phyllis but then again, he's just over 7 ft where as Phyllis is 9 ft.


Sent Daniel a text, he confirmed that yes indeed Phyllis is 100% SD. Said he has breeder size females anywhere from ~6' to 9' give or take and that Phyllis isn't very far off at all in that range of sizes. Also said he wants her back if I ever were to sell her hahah! He's trying to get his hands on more pure blood SD stuff in his facility.


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## jmcrook

> Lol you should ask Daniel. Look on the retic FB pages, i think on the breeders and sellers one. I saw a guy who was selling pure Kalatoa and they were like 6 ft long and a couple years old if i remember correctly. Regardless, they were pretty darn small. You probably just got the monster super dwarf like you said haha.
> 
> And i was using the water bowl as a reference to her size as Caesar has the same one and he looks about 2/3 the thickness of Phyllis but then again, he's just over 7 ft where as Phyllis is 9 ft.


Sent Daniel a text, he confirmed that yes indeed Phyllis is 100% SD. Said he has breeder size females anywhere from ~6' to 9' give or take and that Phyllis isn't very far off at all in that range of sizes. Also said he wants her back if I ever were to sell her hahah! He's trying to get his hands on more pure blood SD stuff in his facility.


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## dylan815

> Thanks! Nope, she's a tad flighty when getting her out of the cage but settles right down. She is very food driven, has a feeding response that rivals any other living thing on earth, but I started hook training her from day one and she's never struck at me once I get a hook on her. Peed on me numerous times but no bites haha!


Mine is the worst about peeing and pooing on me.....

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## AbsoluteApril

We have one dwarf baby left, she was in a tub for the first year+ but then I moved her into a plexi front opening enclosure thinking she'd like it and she started pushing like crazy. I even upped her food size but she pushed and pushed causing swelling on the gum. I moved her back into a tub and she's stopped pushing. Sometimes it's the cage and not food that drives it. Some retics get that little breath of a crack of air and just go nuts. Have you possibly tried covering the bottom 1/3 or 1/2 of the glass with some paper just to see if that reduces it at all? Just a thought. It does sound like yours is a food pusher, I just wanted to mention other possible factors to see if the pushing can in any way be eliminated. I hate seeing their beautiful faces getting all smashed up, silly snakes! Don't hurt the pretty!

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_jmcrook_ (12-12-2017)

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## jmcrook

> We have one dwarf baby left, she was in a tub for the first year+ but then I moved her into a plexi front opening enclosure thinking she'd like it and she started pushing like crazy. I even upped her food size but she pushed and pushed causing swelling on the gum. I moved her back into a tub and she's stopped pushing. Sometimes it's the cage and not food that drives it. Some retics get that little breath of a crack of air and just go nuts. Have you possibly tried covering the bottom 1/3 or 1/2 of the glass with some paper just to see if that reduces it at all? Just a thought. It does sound like yours is a food pusher, I just wanted to mention other possible factors to see if the pushing can in any way be eliminated. I hate seeing their beautiful faces getting all smashed up, silly snakes! Don't hurt the pretty!


That really could be a good solution. She had never pushed until I took the divider out of her T8 last September/October of 2016. She had been in the side with door on the inner track and didn't have as much of an air gap as the other side. I'll try covering the front and see if that helps. She'll still have that small gap of fresh air between the doors at the center so we'll see how it goes. 


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## jmcrook

Phyllis is currently in shed right after having eaten her first guinea pig and is so fat and miserable looking right now... Just wanted to share hah



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## jmcrook

This picture more accurately represents how miserable this animal is when she's in shed lol



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## Stearns84

> Well, psycho McPushface apparently cannot go more than 6-7 days without destroying her face and everything in her cage. 
>  disturbing the amount of force she puts into it.
> So tonight she took her first 4xl guinea pig. 725 grams. We'll see if she goes longer than a week on this. I have a sneaking suspicion that she'll go into shed soon so that could throw off my observations/trial period on her biggest meal. Took it down no problem though.
> 
> Now go to sleep for at least a week and quit smashing your face!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wow that face.. . Gene has become a pusher, he makes it to day 5 before he starts to push at the bottom of his enclosure. Weird because with his nose the floor his body is a good 7" up and just shakes with force. I'll tap him with the paper towel roll and crack the door. He stops and rests his head. But it's strictly a food push. 

I'd love for us all to take a picture of our snakes again against a common product for size comparisons. Gene just hit 8', my apartmwnt kitchen is exactly 8' and his tail still hit the carpet. He has gained substantial girth too. Last time I weighed him he was at 11.1 lbs. 

On a different note Gene pissed on yet another thermometer and broke it. So I bought a small one today and put a small amount of Velcro on it to stick it to his skyhide. I am not one to put tape on or in his enclosure but he can't reach this so I think we'll be ok. 

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_jmcrook_ (12-21-2017)

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## jmcrook

> Wow that face.. . Gene has become a pusher, he makes it to day 5 before he starts to push at the bottom of his enclosure. Weird because with his nose the floor his body is a good 7" up and just shakes with force. I'll tap him with the paper towel roll and crack the door. He stops and rests his head. But it's strictly a food push. 
> 
> I'd love for us all to take a picture of our snakes again against a common product for size comparisons. Gene just hit 8', my apartmwnt kitchen is exactly 8' and his tail still hit the carpet. He has gained substantial girth too. Last time I weighed him he was at 11.1 lbs. 
> 
> On a different note Gene pissed on yet another thermometer and broke it. So I bought a small one today and put a small amount of Velcro on it to stick it to his skyhide. I am not one to put tape on or in his enclosure but he can't reach this so I think we'll be ok. 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Sounds exactly like how Phyllis pushes. It's really almost disturbing at times to see the force she puts into it .
I think I've got pics of Phyllis next to or under an RBI xl hide on here. She just got her jumbo hides the other day and is sleeping next to them rather than in them... 🤷
I'm not one for tape in a cage either but 3M makes some seriously intense Velcro with adhesive backing that I can barely peel of the cage walls, and I've got finger nails and putty knives to work with hah! They've held up to high humidity and warm temps in all my cages for over a year and a half with absolutely zero issue. I've got them installed just above the cage floor or shelf in Phyllis's cage and have yet to have one pissed on. I keep the unit on the cool side and have the probes fed through a hole drilled in the vents and keep the probed end on the warm side.


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## Dxw425

Just had to say that this is one of my favorite threads on this site. Phyllis is awesome.

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_jmcrook_ (12-21-2017)

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## jmcrook

> Just had to say that this is one of my favorite threads on this site. Phyllis is awesome.


Thanks so much! 


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## mama_arty

wow! That's probably the most adorable snake I've seen. How awesome. <3  :Razz:

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_jmcrook_ (12-21-2017)

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## Stearns84

Any update?


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## jmcrook

> Any update?
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Nah, had to leave for xmas and she was still in shed. I'm sure she shed and pooped and is raising hell until I get back Tuesday. Can't ever be easy planning trips around this animal 


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_Stearns84_ (12-25-2017)

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## Sauzo

> Wow that face.. . Gene has become a pusher, he makes it to day 5 before he starts to push at the bottom of his enclosure. Weird because with his nose the floor his body is a good 7" up and just shakes with force. I'll tap him with the paper towel roll and crack the door. He stops and rests his head. But it's strictly a food push. 
> 
> I'd love for us all to take a picture of our snakes again against a common product for size comparisons. Gene just hit 8', my apartmwnt kitchen is exactly 8' and his tail still hit the carpet. He has gained substantial girth too. Last time I weighed him he was at 11.1 lbs. 
> 
> On a different note Gene pissed on yet another thermometer and broke it. So I bought a small one today and put a small amount of Velcro on it to stick it to his skyhide. I am not one to put tape on or in his enclosure but he can't reach this so I think we'll be ok. 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Haha welcome to the world of pushing.

And yeah, Caesar does that stand up body shake thing too when he is pushing at the center brace. It shakes so hard that all the cage stack doors rattle like an earthquake.

As for a thermometer, get an Acurite. They are bullet proof. Caesar has pushed his into his water bowl twice and it stopped working but after i took the battery out and let it sit for a couple days to dry out, it worked again haha.

And here is what Caesar does after being 2 days late on dinner because of Christmas...he was not happy.....btw he is quiet in the pic because it was a few hours after his jumbo rat lol.

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C.Marie (12-28-2017),_jmcrook_ (12-27-2017)

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## jmcrook

Phyllis shed while I was gone and apparently didn't completely lose her mind thankfully. Unfortunately I have to make an unexpected trip across the country for 6 more days now... I don't usually like to feed and immediately leave but Phyllis hasn't eaten in 16 days and will go completely bonkers if I don't feed her. Here's to hoping she doesn't lay in pee for 2-3 days. Anyway here she is

Just weighed in at 14.5lbs


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C.Marie (12-28-2017),_Dxw425_ (12-28-2017),Gio (12-27-2017),_Stearns84_ (12-27-2017)

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## Tigerhawk

She's gotten big ! wow she looks great. I had to go back and look at your pictures of her when she was a baby. How much bigger do you think she will get?

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## jmcrook

> She's gotten big ! wow she looks great. I had to go back and look at your pictures of her when she was a baby. How much bigger do you think she will get?


Thanks tiger! I'm guessing she could hit ten feet but her length has slowed down considerably and she has just been packing on mass. She's gained like 7lbs doubling her weight since early august. Only grown like half a foot in that time frame though. Maybe more but she's kinda hard to measure unless she crawls along the wall and I can mark it to measure afterwards 


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## Gio

> Phyllis shed while I was gone and apparently didn't completely lose her mind thankfully. Unfortunately I have to make an unexpected trip across the country for 6 more days now... I don't usually like to feed and immediately leave but Phyllis hasn't eaten in 16 days and will go completely bonkers if I don't feed her. Here's to hoping she doesn't lay in pee for 2-3 days. Anyway here she is
> 
> Just weighed in at 14.5lbs
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


WOW!
Beautiful!

Wallace is great and not nearly that size.

I'm not real active on the boards, not at all but had some time to check in tonight.

Looking awesome JM!!

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## jmcrook

> WOW!
> Beautiful!
> 
> Wallace is great and not nearly that size.
> 
> I'm not real active on the boards, not at all but had some time to check in tonight.
> 
> Looking awesome JM!!


Gio returns! Missed seeing your posts around here buddy! Hope you're well!


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Gio (12-27-2017)

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## Gio

> Gio returns! Missed seeing your posts around here buddy! Hope you're well!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks bud!

Doing exceptionally good here!

Very busy but love checking in when I can!

You guys look awesome together!

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_jmcrook_ (12-27-2017)

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## Sauzo

Dang Phyllis is big. I'm surprised she lasted 16 days with no food. Caesar did what i showed in the pic above after like 12 days lol. And i guess my SD ultra Ivory and moonglow boa projects are on hold until probably middle of next year. I pulled the trigger on a little 6 month old Biak GTP. Probably going to pick it up next week assuming it eats good and stuff.

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C.Marie (12-28-2017),_jmcrook_ (12-28-2017)

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## jmcrook

> Dang Phyllis is big. I'm surprised she lasted 16 days with no food. Caesar did what i showed in the pic above after like 12 days lol. And i guess my SD ultra Ivory and moonglow boa projects are on hold until probably middle of next year. I pulled the trigger on a little 6 month old Biak GTP. Probably going to pick it up next week assuming it eats good and stuff.


Well she ate a huge guinea pig, went about 4 days and then went into shed for almost two weeks. That's the only way she goes past 7 days without losing her mind.
Congrats on the gtp! That's always been a dream snake of mine. Someday when I'm in a more permanent living situation 


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## jmcrook

Switched all the kids to aspen this week. So far I kinda like it. Very fine dust though. Phyllis sneezed like a dozen time or more after she ate tonight, wonder if she got a nose full of aspen dust while eating. Otherwise makes the cages look brighter, the one piss I've had to clean was very well absorbed and easy to spot. Humidity has plummeted though which is probably attributed to both a drier substrate as well as drier air from the heat being on in the house. Sitting around 40~50% down from 60~70% with coco chips.
Also got Phyllis a pink camo bowl and upgraded Gerald to her old regular camo bowl. 
Also Phyllis ate tonight after a ten day gap between feedings and didn't completely destroy her cage or face. Let's hope she'll go another ten... I feel like she's gotten a bit chunky so I'm trying to stretch out her feeding schedule 





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_67temp_ (01-07-2018),_DLena_ (01-07-2018),Gio (01-07-2018),_Sauzo_ (01-07-2018)

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## Sauzo

What i do is mist the aspen right after i change it to get rid of the dust. Then i usually mist it once or twice a week in the winter. I've never had it mold and it even got soaked from Luna plopping her big bottom in her water bowl and flooding the cage.

And yeah, aspen is much easier to work with imo than the coco stuff. The coco stuff does hold humidity well but from what i read on the chondro boards which seems to apply to all snakes really, is that as long as the snake is hydrated by drinking water, they really dont need to live in a constant wet cage. All that does is create an awesome breeding ground for bacteria, fungi and mold. All of the chondro guys seem to mist and let it spike, then let it dry completely out down to around 40% and then spike it again. Recently that is what i have been doing with all the snakes but mostly because i have been lazy and havent been misting their cages lol. They all seem fine and Rosey even had a perfect shed and her humidity has been around 50%.

Caesar sometimes gets a piece or 2 of aspen stuck in his throat here and there. You hear him coughing, then he goes over and takes a huge drink of water and is fine again lol. I try and feed everyone on cardboard now but half the time they drag it off and through the aspen  :Sad:

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_67temp_ (01-07-2018),_DLena_ (01-07-2018),_jmcrook_ (01-07-2018)

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## Gio

> Switched all the kids to aspen this week. So far I kinda like it. Very fine dust though. Phyllis sneezed like a dozen time or more after she ate tonight, wonder if she got a nose full of aspen dust while eating. Otherwise makes the cages look brighter, the one piss I've had to clean was very well absorbed and easy to spot. Humidity has plummeted though which is probably attributed to both a drier substrate as well as drier air from the heat being on in the house. Sitting around 40~50% down from 60~70% with coco chips.
> Also got Phyllis a pink camo bowl and upgraded Gerald to her old regular camo bowl. 
> Also Phyllis ate tonight after a ten day gap between feedings and didn't completely destroy her cage or face. Let's hope she'll go another ten... I feel like she's gotten a bit chunky so I'm trying to stretch out her feeding schedule 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Looks great brother!

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_jmcrook_ (01-07-2018)

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## jmcrook

Nearly got a good measurement on Phyllis tonight but couldn't say her exact length for certain. Pretty confident that she is 9' if not 9'6" at most. Certainly much larger than was anticipated for a super dwarf but honestly, is in every way a very manageable snake. Handles easily, not an unreasonable amount of maintenance, well mannered, and gorgeous to boot. Just wish she didn't push so much as it stresses me out. She turns two years old on February 14th. Really very lucky to get to care for this awesome critter.
To give a sense of scale/proportion, that blue hook is just about 3'6"



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_BR8080_ (01-13-2018),Gio (01-31-2018),_Sauzo_ (01-13-2018),_Stearns84_ (01-13-2018)

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## BR8080

She's a looker - little larger than I would anticipate for a SD but like you said, still manageable is a good thing.  Think she'll put more length on? (Understanding snakes grow until they die, but drastically slows with age)

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## jmcrook

> She's a looker - little larger than I would anticipate for a SD but like you said, still manageable is a good thing.  Think she'll put more length on? (Understanding snakes grow until they die, but drastically slows with age)


I really can't say for sure. Supposedly her parents were pure WC Kalatoa ~7' mom and ~5-6' dad. A year ago I said I wouldn't be surprised if she got close to 10'. She's about there but has put on significantly more weight rather than length in the last 4-5 months. Probably a foot or more in length since August but has doubled in weight in the same amount of time. Was about 7'6" weighing 7.5lbs in August and is now ~9' and 15lbs. I guess I should prepare for a 12' snake at this point... that is one "Super" dwarf I suppose... love her though 


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_BR8080_ (01-14-2018)

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## dylan815

> Nearly got a good measurement on Phyllis tonight but couldn't say her exact length for certain. Pretty confident that she is 9' if not 9'6" at most. Certainly much larger than was anticipated for a super dwarf but honestly, is in every way a very manageable snake. Handles easily, not an unreasonable amount of maintenance, well mannered, and gorgeous to boot. Just wish she didn't push so much as it stresses me out. She turns two years old on February 14th. Really very lucky to get to care for this awesome critter.
> To give a sense of scale/proportion, that blue hook is just about 3'6"
> 
> 9 feet does sound very manageable. Sometimes i wonder if i got in over my heat with my male mainland........ but dang, i am in love with him and theres no way i could ever let him go. Regardless of his size. He has grown out of being a pusher so i think i will get him a good 10-14 feet or so and then just maintaience feed him. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## Stearns84

> Nearly got a good measurement on Phyllis tonight but couldn't say her exact length for certain. Pretty confident that she is 9' if not 9'6" at most. Certainly much larger than was anticipated for a super dwarf but honestly, is in every way a very manageable snake. Handles easily, not an unreasonable amount of maintenance, well mannered, and gorgeous to boot. Just wish she didn't push so much as it stresses me out. She turns two years old on February 14th. Really very lucky to get to care for this awesome critter.
> To give a sense of scale/proportion, that blue hook is just about 3'6"
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


She's getting big!


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## jmcrook

This young lady turns two years old next month! Can't believe it's been that long. She shed last night is getting enormous. Every bit of 9'+. Using coco chips with her again because I didn't like how the aspen was roughing up her belly scales when she pushed. 


RBI jumbo hides in an Animal plastics T25 and the shelf with the same footprint for scale reference. Not a super dwarf, a SUPER dwarf hahah


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_BR8080_ (01-29-2018),_CALM Pythons_ (01-28-2018),Gio (01-31-2018),_Sauzo_ (01-28-2018)

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## Sauzo

Definitely getting big. I went back to ReptiChips for Caesar after you mentioned the rough scales to me. It's weird, the boas and everyone else is fine on it, just Caesar from his pushing I'm assuming. He never had that issue as a baby, only started fairly recently. Didnt really thing much about it until you mentioned it for Phyllis. Guess the retics need their ReptiChips haha.

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_jmcrook_ (01-28-2018)

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## jmcrook

Yeah, I think it has to do with the heavy pushing too. Gerald pushes too but he must not as hard because he didn't get frayed belly scales so I'm going to at least run out that bag of aspen on him and Geoffrey. Coco chips for Phyllis though


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## Sauzo

> Yeah, I think it has to do with the heavy pushing too. Gerald pushes too but he must not as hard because he didn't get frayed belly scales so I'm going to at least run out that bag of aspen on him and Geoffrey. Coco chips for Phyllis though
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah thats weird. The boas ar fairly active at night and very rarely will sorta push but nothing big. It must have to do with the body shaking, cage shaking Hercules pushing that Phyllis and Caesar do lol.

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_jmcrook_ (01-28-2018)

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## Gio

> This young lady turns two years old next month! Can't believe it's been that long. She shed last night is getting enormous. Every bit of 9'+. Using coco chips with her again because I didn't like how the aspen was roughing up her belly scales when she pushed. 
> 
> 
> RBI jumbo hides in an Animal plastics T25 and the shelf with the same footprint for scale reference. Not a super dwarf, a SUPER dwarf hahah
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Dig the setup. I'm going to get my busy/lazy butt in gear and work on the new cage today.

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_jmcrook_ (01-31-2018)

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## jmcrook

Let this girl out to roam the snake room for an hour this morning, heard a loud crash and came in to find this  knocked a bobble head figure off the top of her cage and the pump sprayer too. She needs more exercise, she's getting kinda chunky. Still pushes like a maniac after like 5-6 days. Might try covering the front of the cage and see if it helps


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Gio (02-03-2018),_Sauzo_ (02-03-2018),_Stearns84_ (02-04-2018)

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## Sauzo

Haha, snakes love to knock stuff over. Caesar has been pretty quiet this past week. The 30th of last month was 10 days for food and he isnt even pushing or out. I think he's getting ready to shed as he is sitting in his hide 24/7 and pretty antisocial. When he is done shedding, he is going to be a terror im sure lol.

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Gio (02-03-2018),_jmcrook_ (02-03-2018)

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## Gio

She looks great.

Glad you and Sauzo are still enjoying the species.

That picture made me smile!

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_jmcrook_ (02-03-2018)

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## Sauzo

> She looks great.
> 
> Glad you and Sauzo are still enjoying the species.
> 
> That picture made me smile!


Not sure it's enjoyment or being kept a slave by my retic haha. J/K. Caesar is awesome. He is one of the snakes i would truly be heartbroken if i had to get rid of. I love all my snakes but he is up there as one of my favorites. Such a character and like i've said countless times, he seems to enjoy the interaction the most out of everyone and loves the attention which they say snakes arent supposed to like or show.

Kind of a bummer when he goes into shed though as him and my beardie are the 2 pets who are there to pretty much greet me when i come in. the boas perk up and look at me but Caesar and the beardie look you in the eyes and actually come to you and seem to love the petting haha.

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_jmcrook_ (02-03-2018),_RickyNY_ (02-03-2018)

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## jmcrook

So I let her roam twice today a little over an hour both times. Second time she went right to her mulch tub and coiled up for a bit until I bugged her, then to her cleaning tub, and back to the mulch for at least 20-30 minutes per tub changed on the cooler side of the room about 71*. Doing a trial run of much cooler temps in her cage and see if she chills out more between feeding. Going down to 73.5* cool side, should keep warm side  anywhere from 87-81* from the shelf moving downward to the floor. I also only have her panel set at 65% maximum power. That's a feature I like a lot on my newer of my two herpstat 2 redlines. A bit gentler heat somewhat more consistently to provide steadier temps. Much cooler than I've gone before but she can still access heat on the shelf if needed 
Wish me luck! Gotta get this girl to stop pushing and maybe loose a little weight haha


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_BR8080_ (02-04-2018),_Sauzo_ (02-04-2018)

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## BR8080

She looks great - love it when they explore.

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_jmcrook_ (02-04-2018)

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## Sauzo

> So I let her roam twice today a little over an hour both times. Second time she went right to her mulch tub and coiled up for a bit until I bugged her, then to her cleaning tub, and back to the mulch for at least 20-30 minutes per tub changed on the cooler side of the room about 71*. Doing a trial run of much cooler temps in her cage and see if she chills out more between feeding. Going down to 73.5* cool side, should keep warm side  anywhere from 87-81* from the shelf moving downward to the floor. I also only have her panel set at 65% maximum power. That's a feature I like a lot on my newer of my two herpstat 2 redlines. A bit gentler heat somewhat more consistently to provide steadier temps. Much cooler than I've gone before but she can still access heat on the shelf if needed 
> Wish me luck! Gotta get this girl to stop pushing and maybe loose a little weight haha
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Best of luck man. I know i keep Caesar with a cool side of around 77-79F and his flexwatt set to 86-88F. He still pushes here and there. Keep us updated though because if it works, maybe I'll try and drop Caesar down in temps too.

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## jmcrook

> Best of luck man. I know i keep Caesar with a cool side of around 77-79F and his flexwatt set to 86-88F. He still pushes here and there. Keep us updated though because if it works, maybe I'll try and drop Caesar down in temps too.


I'm at my wits end. It's either stuff her with food until she's grossly obese or figure out another way to get her to chill. I've even thought about trying to put her back in a 4' cage even though she's 9'. Sometimes they chill out in a smaller space. I'll keep you posted if I come to any conclusions.


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## Sauzo

> I'm at my wits end. It's either stuff her with food until she's grossly obese or figure out another way to get her to chill. I've even thought about trying to put her back in a 4' cage even though she's 9'. Sometimes they chill out in a smaller space. I'll keep you posted if I come to any conclusions.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


For sure. Does she only push at that center beam where the air gap is for the 2 sliding doors? Thats pretty much the only place Caesar ever pushes. And even when i stuff paper towels in between the doors, that is still where he will push.

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## Aedryan Methyus

She is looking great, JM... I saw a 100% pure Kalatoa at an expo a few weeks back that was 4 years old and probably only around 3' long. It was unbelievable how tiny it was!

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_jmcrook_ (02-04-2018)

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## jmcrook

> For sure. Does she only push at that center beam where the air gap is for the 2 sliding doors? Thats pretty much the only place Caesar ever pushes. And even when i stuff paper towels in between the doors, that is still where he will push.


Yep, right against the center beam and only from the right side of it. 
So I lowered her temps and covered the front of the cage with a sheet of cardboard last night... no pushing! Gonna raise temps a degree or two and leave it covered tonight to see if she stays calm. 


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_CALM Pythons_ (02-04-2018),_Sauzo_ (02-04-2018)

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## Sauzo

> Yep, right against the center beam and only from the right side of it. 
> So I lowered her temps and covered the front of the cage with a sheet of cardboard last night... no pushing! Gonna raise temps a degree or two and leave it covered tonight to see if she stays calm. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Lol exact same spot and side Caesar pushes from too.

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_jmcrook_ (02-04-2018)

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## mrhoyo

Did anyone listen to the Morelia  Pythons Radio podcast about dwarf and superdwarf retics? They had a guy  on from I think Reachout Reptiles who specialises in them and get talked about feeding schedules etc. I don't remember the exact details but he keeps them cooler than mainlands, feeds them something like once a month and hasn't had a problem with  the pushing. It was actually a specific question that came up and, if I remember correctly, he says they only push at the glass if they're too hot.

Worth listening to if anyone is interested. 

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Gio (02-20-2018)

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## jmcrook

> Did anyone listen to the Morelia  Pythons Radio podcast about dwarf and superdwarf retics? They had a guy  on from I think Reachout Reptiles who specialises in them and get talked about feeding schedules etc. I don't remember the exact details but he keeps them cooler than mainlands, feeds them something like once a month and hasn't had a problem with  the pushing. It was actually a specific question that came up and, if I remember correctly, he says they only push at the glass if they're too hot.
> 
> Worth listening to if anyone is interested. 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


Yeah I listened to it and asked him about the pushing too. So far cooler temps and keeping the doors covered the last two nights have helped. I've also been letting her roam the room for and hour or more the last few days to burn off some steam. We'll see if we can get to 10 days before I feed again. She's at 7 right now


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## Sauzo

What temps do you keep Phyllis at? I keep Caesar with a 79F cool side/whole ambient and a 86F hot spot with flexwatt. He has been incredibly quiet the past week or so thank god to shedding lol. He sat in his warm hide for a while, then has been in his cool hide for the past few days. Been like 16 days since his last dinner. This is amazing to have a quiet retic...kind of. I do miss interacting with him and petting him and having him come out to greet me. At least i still got my little beardie who loves to say hi to me lol.

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## jmcrook

> What temps do you keep Phyllis at? I keep Caesar with a 79F cool side/whole ambient and a 86F hot spot with flexwatt. He has been incredibly quiet the past week or so thank god to shedding lol. He sat in his warm hide for a while, then has been in his cool hide for the past few days. Been like 16 days since his last dinner. This is amazing to have a quiet retic...kind of. I do miss interacting with him and petting him and having him come out to greet me. At least i still got my little beardie who loves to say hi to me lol.


I've currently got her herpstat probe on the cool side set at 74* which has been keeping the warm ambient around ~76* and low to mid 80s directly under the RHP depending on what % of power it's running at. Not sure if the cooler temps or covering the doors is what's doing the trick right now but I'll take whatever I can get. We'll see how she did all day while I've been on campus. I really would like for her to go at least 10 days between feedings because I feel like she's been getting fat. Not quite as athletic of a physique as she used to have 6 months ago


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## Sauzo

> I've currently got her herpstat probe on the cool side set at 74* which has been keeping the warm ambient around ~76* and low to mid 80s directly under the RHP depending on what % of power it's running at. Not sure if the cooler temps or covering the doors is what's doing the trick right now but I'll take whatever I can get. We'll see how she did all day while I've been on campus. I really would like for her to go at least 10 days between feedings because I feel like she's been getting fat. Not quite as athletic of a physique as she used to have 6 months ago
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


....shoulda just used flexwatt and let the ambient be the room temp.....j/k  :Very Happy:

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_jmcrook_ (02-05-2018)

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## jmcrook

> ....shoulda just used flexwatt and let the ambient be the room temp.....j/k


Oh it's definitely crossed my mind. I've got a 21"x24" flexwatt strip that I have as backup for her cage, but I'd have to undo the whole stack to get under her cage to set it up. Room temp is about 70-72* which is a little low for my liking for the cage ambient though. Hrmmm... 


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_Stearns84_ (02-06-2018)

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## jmcrook

hApPiE bUrPhDaEy, PhYlLiS! She crawled out of her egg somewhere between 2/11/16-2/14/16 so I figured now is as good of a day as any. Most astonishing growth rate of any animal I've ever worked with.
The day I got her 3/4/16, about 20" and 56grams 
Today 2/12/18, about 9' and 16lbs+



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_67temp_ (02-13-2018),_AbsoluteApril_ (02-13-2018),_BR8080_ (02-13-2018),_CALM Pythons_ (02-12-2018),Gio (02-13-2018),_Godzilla78_ (02-16-2018),_Ronniex2_ (03-05-2018),_Sauzo_ (02-13-2018),_Stearns84_ (02-14-2018),_tttaylorrr_ (02-17-2018)

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## Sauzo

Lol happy b-day Phyllis.

On a side note, did the lower temps help with the pushing and being able to extend feeding days?

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## jmcrook

I think it helped a little bit. She went to 9 days without going completely bonkers but was still pushing a little by that day. Yesterday was 5 days after eating a 4xl guinea pig and she already pooped. I could feed this animal a freaking horse and she'd poop within a week probably 


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## Gio

> hApPiE bUrPhDaEy, PhYlLiS! She crawled out of her egg somewhere between 2/11/16-2/14/16 so I figured now is as good of a day as any. Most astonishing growth rate of any animal I've ever worked with.
> The day I got her 3/4/16, about 20" and 56grams 
> Today 2/12/18, about 9' and 16lbs+
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Exceptionally cool!

She looks great. 

Wallace has his 2nd B-day June 1st. He's 6.5 - 7 feet now.

Bummer about the pushing, I have never dealt with it. Once in a great while the carpet and boa will push but not for hunger reasons.

Phyllis is the PERFECT size IMO.

Well done and Happy B-day.

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_jmcrook_ (02-13-2018)

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## Stearns84

> hApPiE bUrPhDaEy, PhYlLiS! She crawled out of her egg somewhere between 2/11/16-2/14/16 so I figured now is as good of a day as any. Most astonishing growth rate of any animal I've ever worked with.
> The day I got her 3/4/16, about 20" and 56grams 
> Today 2/12/18, about 9' and 16lbs+
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Damn happy birthday Phyllis! She is looking really good!

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Gio (02-15-2018),_jmcrook_ (02-14-2018)

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## jmcrook

It was 78* this afternoon between teaching my drawing and design classes so Phyllis got to wander in the yard for a a min... and took a huge poop like 4 minutes later. Retics...

Still got some swollen face, which seems to be normal anymore. Gonna stuff her with guinea pig tonight and hope she goes into shed so she'll stay quiet and not push so much 


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Gio (02-20-2018),_Sauzo_ (02-20-2018),_Stearns84_ (02-21-2018)

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## Sauzo

Lol yeah i tried lowering the temps for Caesar too and it didnt really do squat. If he doesnt get food within a about 10 days after eating, he goes bonkers and starts pushing and being an overall pita.

On a plus note though, Caesar isnt mad at me anymore for messing with his face during the whole tooth through the lip fiasco. He was pissed at me for 2 days no kidding. He wouldnt greet me. He would wander away when i opened the cage to pet him. Gave me stink eye and would go in his hide. Now he is back to normal. He comes out to greet me. Last night he sat on my arm while i petted him for about 20 mins. I know snakes dont show emotion and stuff but i swear, retics come the closest to it lol.

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_AbsoluteApril_ (02-21-2018),_Godzilla78_ (02-20-2018),_jmcrook_ (02-20-2018),_Pengil_ (02-21-2018),_Stearns84_ (02-21-2018)

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## Godzilla78

> Lol yeah i tried lowering the temps for Caesar too and it didnt really do squat. If he doesnt get food within a about 10 days after eating, he goes bonkers and starts pushing and being an overall pita.
> 
> On a plus note though, Caesar isnt mad at me anymore for messing with his face during the whole tooth through the lip fiasco. He was pissed at me for 2 days no kidding. He wouldnt greet me. He would wander away when i opened the cage to pet him. Gave me stink eye and would go in his hide. Now he is back to normal. He comes out to greet me. Last night he sat on my arm while i petted him for about 20 mins. I know snakes dont show emotion and stuff but i swear, retics come the closest to it lol.


I love stories like this, displaying the personality of snakes.

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## Gio

I'm at a loss as far as the pushing goes.

Wallace has never pushed and I feed him about every 4 weeks.

He's still in his smaller cage but I'm moving him soon.

I have not had any problem snakes here. Maybe its luck or I'm somewhat dialed in. I'm not really sure .

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## Sauzo

> I'm at a loss as far as the pushing goes.
> 
> Wallace has never pushed and I feed him about every 4 weeks.
> 
> He's still in his smaller cage but I'm moving him soon.
> 
> I have not had any problem snakes here. Maybe its luck or I'm somewhat dialed in. I'm not really sure .


Lol you got lucky. Caesar and Phyllis have pushed since day one. Sounds like Gene is starting to do it now too lol. Count your blessing while they last  :Very Happy: 

And if i made Caesar wait 4 weeks for dinner, he would have a hamburger face. I made him wait like 2-3 weeks once to see what would happen. It wasnt pretty. He had cut pits, lips, chin, everything. And it was not a pretty sight.

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## jmcrook

Just snagged a loose tooth out of her face as she was finishing her guinea pig. I'm betting there are another couple stuck in her gums. Gonna take a look tomorrow or the day after, give her meal time to settle. This damn snake... 


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_Stearns84_ (02-21-2018)

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## Sauzo

> Just snagged a loose tooth out of her face as she was finishing her guinea pig. I'm betting there are another couple stuck in her gums. Gonna take a look tomorrow or the day after, give her meal time to settle. This damn snake... 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Lol dang man. When i was fixing Caesar's lip, i found out the hard way his teeth are all very secure......and very sharp. Caught my fingers on a couple of them. They are big, sharp and plentiful lol.

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_jmcrook_ (02-21-2018)

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## dakski

> Lol dang man. When i was fixing Caesar's lip, i found out the hard way his teeth are all very secure......and very sharp. Caught my fingers on a couple of them. They are big, sharp and plentiful lol.


I don't know about Retics! You guys seem to be having a little too much fun with their dental issues.

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## Sauzo

> I don't know about Retics! You guys seem to be having a little too much fun with their dental issues.


Retics arent very shy and if they want to go somewhere, they arent afraid to use their head/face as a battering ram lol. Combine that with the incredible force behind their push and you would know. Caesar literally uses his whole upper half to push and stands up and shakes violently sometimes haha. It's rattled the cage doors on the cage stack.

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_jmcrook_ (02-21-2018),_Stearns84_ (02-21-2018)

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## jmcrook

> I don't know about Retics! You guys seem to be having a little too much fun with their dental issues.


Don't know that I'd say I'm having fun... learning a lot but fun? More stressful than anything lol. Gonna just slam her with food to push her into shed and see how it heals up. Breeder friend of mine had the same issue with one of his SD girls last month


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## jmcrook

Deep in shed and looking dead...




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_67temp_ (03-05-2018),Gio (03-04-2018),_Sauzo_ (03-05-2018),_Stearns84_ (03-05-2018)

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## Gio

> Deep in shed and looking dead...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Perfect size. 

I hope Wallace tops off around her length and girth. 

I love her pattern whether it be in shed or out. She's about the perfect retic IMO.

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_jmcrook_ (03-04-2018)

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## jmcrook

> Perfect size. 
> 
> I hope Wallace tops off around her length and girth. 
> 
> I love her pattern whether it be in shed or out. She's about the perfect retic IMO.


Thanks brother! She's a pretty impressively built animal. Easy 17+lbs now. Only complaint is the pushing but I think I can curb that with slightly smaller but more frequent meals with a bigger prey here and there. I'll keep us all posted when I get that feeding schedule figured out. Probably a  colossal rat a week once I order more rodents. Think I'm going to try perfect prey or big cheese this time around. 


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Gio (03-04-2018)

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## Sauzo

Decided to go with paper eh? If you are going to use that. Check into this stuff. I know a lot of the boa breeders use. Me and Skip Frye had a chat about using it over substrate. This is for the 2 foot deep cages. Would have to change it for the 30 inch deep cages. https://www.uline.com/Product/Detail...Flute-24-x-250

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## jmcrook

> Decided to go with paper eh? If you are going to use that. Check into this stuff. I know a lot of the boa breeders use. Me and Skip Frye had a chat about using it over substrate. This is for the 2 foot deep cages. Would have to change it for the 30 inch deep cages. https://www.uline.com/Product/Detail...Flute-24-x-250


Just on paper while her mouth is healing up. I've got 6 blocks of pro coco on standby. Just didn't want dirt and stuff getting into her swollen face


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Gio (03-05-2018)

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## Sauzo

> Just on paper while her mouth is healing up. I've got 6 blocks of pro coco on standby. Just didn't want dirt and stuff getting into her swollen face
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Weenie!! Rub some dirt on it and go back to work!! Thats what i was always told when i was a kid and fell lol. I've pretty much accepted that Caesar will always have some scrape on him as he is like a wreckless little kid haha. I got him a big potted Pothos and he seems to love it. He has wrapped around it and been inspecting it haha. Gonna get the big boas and Caesar each another big Pothos for the cool sides later as they arent cheap. I remember when plants were cheap as dirt lol. Now they are kind of expensive especially the big ones. I mean $50 for a big plant without a pot or dirt......

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_jmcrook_ (03-06-2018),_Kcl_ (03-23-2018)

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## jmcrook

Well, went 5 days after feeding and shes been smashing her face in the cage doors all day... I give up. Shes just going to eat every 5-6 days and get fat I guess? That or have a permanently disfigured face


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_Sauzo_ (03-17-2018)

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## Sauzo

> Well, went 5 days after feeding and she’s been smashing her face in the cage doors all day... I give up. She’s just going to eat every 5-6 days and get fat I guess? That or have a permanently disfigured face
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Try a live plant!! Get yourself a decent sized potted pothos and see if that helps. I swear it has helped with Caesar a TON. He still will windshield wipe the doors sometimes when he wants attention but overall it has cut his pushing down to almost nothing. I am really thinking the smell of piss or ammonia or whatever was making him push to get out. The plant eliminates the odors. If it doesnt work, you will have a pet plant lol.

I say pothos since they seem to be the most easy to care for and are growing like weeds even under just LED cage lighting. The prayer plant is doing ok but not as nice looking as at the nursery lol. And the parlor palm looks like hell warmed over lol. Plus the snakes can kind of crawl on the pothos without wiping it out and it will grow like a ground vine so will look pretty nice once it starts growing outward.

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_jmcrook_ (03-17-2018)

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## jmcrook

> Try a live plant!! Get yourself a decent sized potted pothos and see if that helps. I swear it has helped with Caesar a TON. He still will windshield wipe the doors sometimes when he wants attention but overall it has cut his pushing down to almost nothing. I am really thinking the smell of piss or ammonia or whatever was making him push to get out. The plant eliminates the odors. If it doesnt work, you will have a pet plant lol.
> 
> I say pothos since they seem to be the most easy to care for and are growing like weeds even under just LED cage lighting. The prayer plant is doing ok but not as nice looking as at the nursery lol. And the parlor palm looks like hell warmed over lol. Plus the snakes can kind of crawl on the pothos without wiping it out and it will grow like a ground vine so will look pretty nice once it starts growing outward.


Lol Ill give it a shot. I could take out her cool side hide and put a plant over there I suppose. I think youre underestimating the crushing power of Phylliss enormous body with that plant though hahaha! I wish you could come handle this snake and really see how huge she got. Its crazy 


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## Sauzo

> Lol Ill give it a shot. I could take out her cool side hide and put a plant over there I suppose. I think youre underestimating the crushing power of Phylliss enormous body with that plant though hahaha! I wish you could come handle this snake and really see how huge she got. Its crazy 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Lol, well Caesar inspected his plant for a few days mostly by just sticking his head in there. He never tried to climb through it though. Here is hopefully a helpful pic. I couldnt really open the door more as Caesar was stretched out on the other side on the litter dam during his nightly open door sessions haha. The pot is is 8 inches across i think and made from terra cotta. Just the plain pot. The roughness would also work well as something to rub on the help shed too. I just put the plant in front of the closed side of the hide. So Caesar still has full access to his cool hide and can still sit on top of it but the plant gives him a sense of 'cover' too as it is starting to vine so it can overhang the hide entrance a little.

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_jmcrook_ (03-17-2018)

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## Sauzo

> Lol Ill give it a shot. I could take out her cool side hide and put a plant over there I suppose. I think youre underestimating the crushing power of Phylliss enormous body with that plant though hahaha! I wish you could come handle this snake and really see how huge she got. Its crazy 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Oh and i can imagine. Destructo Dottie tried to sit and curl up on top of the Poor Prayer plant which is why it is kind of messed up looking lol. She basically flattened it so i took it out and put it in Gina's cage and it is starting to kind of look like a plant again haha.

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_jmcrook_ (03-17-2018)

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## jmcrook

Phyllis got a plant... and nothing else changed. Pooped at day 5 like usual and then began her destruction program as usual. Gonna try adding belly heat and see if that fixes anything just because she curled up on the top of her cage above her RHP when I let her out to cruise the room last night and stayed there for close to an hour. She initially began pushing when she moved into her full T8 in September/October of 2016, previous to that she had belly heat when she was in half of a T8 and in her 20L before that. Pretty confident Ive tried everything else that could be a reason for pushing aside from her potentially looking to breed but I wont even consider trying that until next season if at all


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_67temp_ (03-23-2018)

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## 67temp

What are all the things that you have tried without luck to stop the pushing?

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## jmcrook

> What are all the things that you have tried without luck to stop the pushing?


Increased temps, lowered temps, increased humidity, lowered humidity, coco chip bedding to aspen to coco to paper back to coco, bigger hides, smaller hides, extra hides, less hides, bigger prey less frequently, smaller prey more frequently, larger prey more frequently, alternating smaller and larger prey from week to week, added cage clutter, reduced cage clutter, gave her water bottle toys to push around, live plant cover and fake plant cover, daily free roaming sessions in the room or yard for at least an hour, larger water bowl, smaller water bowl, every possible combination of all of the above variables. Only two things I havent tried yet is putting her back in a 4 cage. Currently in a 72x30x18, I could put her back in her old 48x24x12 but that would barely be enough room for her and the water bowl definitely no room for hides. Just added flexwatt back under her warm hide to see if that fixes anything but shes due to eat tonight anyway so that will keep her quiet for 4-5 days... then back to destroying her face


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## Sauzo

Man, that sucks. Caesar is fairly quiet now. At night he does windshield a little and once in awhile will test the center pillar but he doesnt really push unless its close to dinner day. He drop a HUGE piss last night as well as little one and then track it around on the top of his hide. And this is right after i put in the nice clean cypress  :Mad:  And Vicky did it to so double  :Mad:  :Mad: . Looks like you have tried everything short of giving her a boyfriend lol. Maybe she smells Gerald and wants some luvin.  :Taz:

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_jmcrook_ (03-23-2018)

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## Skyrivers

> Man, that sucks. Caesar is fairly quiet now. At night he does windshield a little and once in awhile will test the center pillar but he doesnt really push unless its close to dinner day. He drop a HUGE piss last night as well as little one and then track it around on the top of his hide. And this is right after i put in the nice clean cypress  And Vicky did it to so double . Looks like you have tried everything short of giving her a boyfriend lol. Maybe she smells Gerald and wants some luvin.


Everyone needs some good luvin! Even retics :Surprised:  :Very Happy:

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_jmcrook_ (03-23-2018)

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## jmcrook

> Man, that sucks. Caesar is fairly quiet now. At night he does windshield a little and once in awhile will test the center pillar but he doesnt really push unless its close to dinner day. He drop a HUGE piss last night as well as little one and then track it around on the top of his hide. And this is right after i put in the nice clean cypress  And Vicky did it to so double . Looks like you have tried everything short of giving her a boyfriend lol. Maybe she smells Gerald and wants some luvin.


Ive been half tempted to put Gerald in with her just to see what happens. Shes been doing this since before he was ever in the same room though. As much as I would like to breed them at some point, with how rambunctious they both are Im beginning to wonder how much I really want a whole clutch of their babies to start dealing with their own eventual pushing problems... 


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_Sauzo_ (03-23-2018)

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## Sauzo

> Ive been half tempted to put Gerald in with her just to see what happens. Shes been doing this since before he was ever in the same room though. As much as I would like to breed them at some point, with how rambunctious they both are Im beginning to wonder how much I really want a whole clutch of their babies to start dealing with their own eventual pushing problems... 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


HAHAHAHA. Yeah, imagine a whole little army of Phyllis' pushing around in tubs lol. That is the main reason i really havent gone more in on retics. I was pulling my hair out when Caesar pushed. He ALWAYS had a new scrape on his chin or something. Luckily he has mellowed out a lot. I couldnt handle it with a small of them.

Maybe you would luck out and end up with all well mannered non pushing retic babies......or...... :Surprised:

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_jmcrook_ (03-23-2018)

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## jmcrook

After almost two weeks in shed cycle Phyllis has a new coat of paint and her face looks much much better. Still not 100% but substantially better.
Gave me nearly 11 of shed, obviously with some significant stretching but she may be more like 9.5 now. Also took the most enormous crap ever in her mulch tub. Had been holding in the waste from a guinea pig and colossal rat for the last couple weeks. Weighed in at 20.5lbs right after. 


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_AbsoluteApril_ (04-11-2018),_BR8080_ (04-12-2018),Gio (04-10-2018),_Sauzo_ (04-10-2018)

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## Gio

It doesn't get much better!

Perfect size and nice, lean and mean like retics should be!

Keep up the good work sir, she's a stunner.

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_jmcrook_ (04-11-2018),_Sauzo_ (04-11-2018)

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## Sauzo

Whats wrong with her face though?? Sorry, couldnt resist haha.

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## jmcrook

In case anyone wondered what the degree of cage destruction was by day 7 after feeding... 🤦 

Sometimes I dont know about her... shes a lot to deal with 


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_AbsoluteApril_ (05-02-2018),Gio (05-06-2018),_Reinz_ (05-01-2018),_Sauzo_ (05-01-2018)

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## Sauzo

> In case anyone wondered what the degree of cage destruction was by day 7 after feeding... 🤦 
> 
> Sometimes I dont know about her... shes a lot to deal with 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hahaha, that what Caesar used to do. Wait until Phyllis starts pushing the hides across the bare cage floor. Almost as bad as fingernails on a chalkboard.....especially late at night lol.

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## jmcrook

> Hahaha, that what Caesar used to do. Wait until Phyllis starts pushing the hides across the bare cage floor. Almost as bad as fingernails on a chalkboard.....especially late at night lol.


No waiting required. Thats what shes doing in these pics, and every night all night starting at day 4-5. Even her just cruising over her coco chips makes a terrible squeaking type sound similar to the hides. And Ive been having to sleep in that room and listen to those damn hides getting pushed around for the last couple weeks but my ex just moved out today so I got to rehabilitate my bedroom again. Peace and quiet restored.


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Gio (05-06-2018),_Sauzo_ (05-02-2018)

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## Sauzo

> No waiting required. That’s what she’s doing in these pics, and every night all night starting at day 4-5. Even her just cruising over her coco chips makes a terrible squeaking type sound similar to the hides. And I’ve been having to sleep in that room and listen to those damn hides getting pushed around for the last couple weeks but my ex just moved out today so I got to rehabilitate my bedroom again. Peace and quiet restored.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Lol too funny man. Buy a retic they said. It will be cool they said. They are fun they said.  :Very Happy: 

On a side note, i have been getting Caesar all worked up. At night he usually cruises around. I wait until his head on a far side of the cage and i quietly slide open the opposite door and give his a tail a little flick. Boy, they gets him going. Never seen a snake spin around and come flying with mouth open. I swear, the guy has the mentality of bite first, sample if food second when his lights are out. If he knows it's me, he is really laid back but if he doesnt know, he comes flying full steam ahead. Dude is definitely not a shy snake. I couldnt imagine he would live long in the wild as he would probably just slither up to people and get killed...or try and eat them...and get killed. Since i got the new Feed tongs, i no longer have anything to satisfy the adrenaline junkie in me haha.

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_jmcrook_ (05-02-2018)

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## jmcrook

> Lol too funny man. Buy a retic they said. It will be cool they said. They are fun they said. 
> 
> On a side note, i have been getting Caesar all worked up. At night he usually cruises around. I wait until his head on a far side of the cage and i quietly slide open the opposite door and give his a tail a little flick. Boy, they gets him going. Never seen a snake spin around and come flying with mouth open. I swear, the guy has the mentality of bite first, sample if food second when his lights are out. If he knows it's me, he is really laid back but if he doesnt know, he comes flying full steam ahead. Dude is definitely not a shy snake. I couldnt imagine he would live long in the wild as he would probably just slither up to people and get killed...or try and eat them...and get killed. Since i got the new Feed tongs, i no longer have anything to satisfy the adrenaline junkie in me haha.


Theyre very inquisitive they said. Such a joy to work with they said. lol 
Oh man do they hate having their tails messed with! Never seen a snake react so fast as when I touch either Phyllis or Geralds tail to coax them back into their cages. Lightning quick reflexes hahaha. I commented to my breeder friend how Phyllis was thrilled about me having to deal with her snagged lip one time and his response was Lmao! Pinch her tail... 🤣
As far as long tongs and adrenaline rush, Phyllis is still quite the adrenaline boost when feeding even with 40 tongs. She means serious, dangerous business when it comes to food. She hasnt missed a shot in months but when she does my heart sure does skip a beat. 20lbs of teeth and muscle flying ~3 out of the cage will get your attention quick fast and in a hurry 

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_Sauzo_ (05-02-2018)

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## Sauzo

> Theyre very inquisitive they said. Such a joy to work with they said. lol 
> Oh man do they hate having their tails messed with! Never seen a snake react so fast as when I touch either Phyllis or Geralds tail to coax them back into their cages. Lightning quick reflexes hahaha. I commented to my breeder friend how Phyllis was thrilled about me having to deal with her snagged lip one time and his response was Lmao! Pinch her tail... 🤣
> As far as long tongs and adrenaline rush, Phyllis is still quite the adrenaline boost when feeding even with 40 tongs. She means serious, dangerous business when it comes to food. She hasnt missed a shot in months but when she does my heart sure does skip a beat. 20lbs of teeth and muscle flying ~3 out of the cage will get your attention quick fast and in a hurry 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Haha. Yeah the 42 inch tongs are heaven. So for me, it's like those shaving cream commercials with the guy sliding on his belly down a soap slide with those the big tongs compared to the sphincter puckering rollercoaster ride of the BBQ tongs lol.

And yeah, no one told me about retics and their tails. The first time i found out was when Caesar was on his shelf and knocked his Acurite off and i went to put it back up and shoved his tail with it. He spun around and almost got my arm. Was so quick, not sure if his mouth was open or not but he hit my arm. Now i just do it to get him all worked up sometimes haha. One day i'll probably get tagged and scream like a girl and pee myself but until then, its fun getting Caesar all worked up sometimes.

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## Skyrivers

> Haha. Yeah the 42 inch tongs are heaven. So for me, it's like those shaving cream commercials with the guy sliding on his belly down a soap slide with those the big tongs compared to the sphincter puckering rollercoaster ride of the BBQ tongs lol.
> 
> And yeah, no one told me about retics and their tails. The first time i found out was when Caesar was on his shelf and knocked his Acurite off and i went to put it back up and shoved his tail with it. He spun around and almost got my arm. Was so quick, not sure if his mouth was open or not but he hit my arm. Now i just do it to get him all worked up sometimes haha. One day i'll probably get tagged and scream like a girl and pee myself but until then, its fun getting Caesar all worked up sometimes.


LOL! I did not know about the tail thing and was putting Rainbow back the other day. She was going in her enclosure and slowed to a stop. Was trying to help her get that tail in and went to lift it. She whipped me with her tail smacking my hand and looked at me like "How rude!" 

Quick question. I went to take her out last night and she greeted me at the door face first. I tapped her side to get her to turn her head but she kept moving it back. She knew I was taking her out. Not sure if she was challenging me or was just ready for some freedom? She was not tensed up but was looking me right in the face. I did get her to turn eventually but she was determined for a min to come out face first. No issues once out though. I am gentle with her and she is gentle with me. Was this her way of saying no she doesn't want out or just saying ok I am ready?

So much to learn about my big girl.

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## 67temp

Ya'll are a bad influence....now I want to go mess with my little guys tail to see his reaction.

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## Skyrivers

> Ya'll are a bad influence....now I want to go mess with my little guys tail to see his reaction.


I guess it is the same as grabbing a sexy woman's booty without permission. LOL

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## jmcrook

> I guess it is the same as grabbing a sexy woman's booty without permission. LOL


Or grabbing anyones anything without their permission... Consent is not just important, it is mandatory. 


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## Skyrivers

> Or grabbing anyones anything without their permission... Consent is not just important, it is mandatory. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So true. 

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## AbsoluteApril

> Ya'll are a bad influence....now I want to go mess with my little guys tail to see his reaction.


ATBs generally have the same reaction, you have one, so go mess with it's tail too.
(evil laugh)

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_jmcrook_ (05-02-2018),_Team Slytherin_ (05-05-2018)

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## Reinz

My Olive is the same. If you touch the last 6 inches of her tail, its instant attack!

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Gio (05-06-2018),_jmcrook_ (05-02-2018)

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## 67temp

> ATBs generally have the same reaction, you have one, so go mess with it's tail too.
> (evil laugh)


Hmm He is in blue right now and wont even see it coming.  :Devilish:

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_AbsoluteApril_ (05-02-2018)

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## jmcrook

> My Olive is the same. If you touch the last 6 inches of her tail, its instant attack!


Good lord, Reinz! That is one smoking hot critter!

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_Reinz_ (05-02-2018)

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## Reinz

> Good lord, Reinz! That is one smoking hot critter!


Thanks!  So far she fits the descriptions and characteristics of what yall say about your Retics, except for face pushing and waste production.  But then shes only 7 months.

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_EL-Ziggy_ (05-07-2018),_jmcrook_ (05-02-2018)

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## Sauzo

> LOL! I did not know about the tail thing and was putting Rainbow back the other day. She was going in her enclosure and slowed to a stop. Was trying to help her get that tail in and went to lift it. She whipped me with her tail smacking my hand and looked at me like "How rude!" 
> 
> Quick question. I went to take her out last night and she greeted me at the door face first. I tapped her side to get her to turn her head but she kept moving it back. She knew I was taking her out. Not sure if she was challenging me or was just ready for some freedom? She was not tensed up but was looking me right in the face. I did get her to turn eventually but she was determined for a min to come out face first. No issues once out though. I am gentle with her and she is gentle with me. Was this her way of saying no she doesn't want out or just saying ok I am ready?
> 
> So much to learn about my big girl.


Lol yeah Caesar whips me with his tail if he knows i am the one bugging him. Caesar always greets me at the door. Not a challenge, just either thinks food might be coming or he is getting some attention. Like i said, he is the only snake i have seen that likes petting. Not a fan of being dragged out of his cage unless he wants to but he sure does love the petting.




> Ya'll are a bad influence....now I want to go mess with my little guys tail to see his reaction.


Lol try it. When Caesar didnt know it was me, he spun around and took a shot. He hit my arm but I'm still not sure if his mouth was open or not. When he knows its me, he just swats my hand with his tail. Kind of like when i bug his body. He will shove my hand away lol.




> My Olive is the same. If you touch the last 6 inches of her tail, its instant attack!


Nice Olive.

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_Reinz_ (05-02-2018)

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## 67temp

My tic is broken. He flinched and took off running away. My carpet and one of my corns spun around ready to fight but stopped when they realized it was me.

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## Sauzo

> My tic is broken. He flinched and took off running away. My carpet and one of my corns spun around ready to fight but stopped when they realized it was me.


Lol Caesar turned around and took a shot at me before he knew it was me. Still dont know if his mouth was open and i got lucky or if it was closed and he just head butted me but i felt him hit my arm back by the arm pit lol. My boas dont seem to care much or they are used to me bugging their tails. Havent tried it on Pat and dont plan too. The little worm has never taken a shot at me and i dont want it to start haha.

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## jmcrook

Day three after feeding and shes just smashing the hell out of her face again. At this point Im almost seriously considering trying to rehome her because this is just stressing me out excessively. Im at the end of my wits here


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## Team Slytherin

> Thanks!  So far she fits the descriptions and characteristics of what yall say about your Retics, except for face pushing and waste production.  But then shes only 7 months.


7 months?! Shes huge!😳😳 Super stunner, though.

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_Reinz_ (05-05-2018)

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## Sauzo

> Day three after feeding and shes just smashing the hell out of her face again. At this point Im almost seriously considering trying to rehome her because this is just stressing me out excessively. Im at the end of my wits here
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You know man, I'm beginning to wonder if it is something else other than food that is driving her to push so hard so often. As to what it could be, I have no idea but the past few weeks Caesar has been fairly good. He does a little pushing here and there but nothing like a few months ago. I think his pushing was wanting a girlfriend.

On a side note, Dottie has been going crazy recently with pushing and really active. Also if i rub her back, she arches up. Bot sure if she is wanting to breed or what as she is usually really quiet.

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_jmcrook_ (05-05-2018)

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## jmcrook

> You know man, I'm beginning to wonder if it is something else other than food that is driving her to push so hard so often. As to what it could be, I have no idea but the past few weeks Caesar has been fairly good. He does a little pushing here and there but nothing like a few months ago. I think his pushing was wanting a girlfriend.
> 
> On a side note, Dottie has been going crazy recently with pushing and really active. Also if i rub her back, she arches up. Bot sure if she is wanting to breed or what as she is usually really quiet.


I think its possible that shes picking up Geralds scent and is feeling a bit randy but Im not in the position to breed them and shes a bit young. It was also about this time last year that her pushing got really bad and larger prey helped a bit. Honestly she probably just needs to be slammed with food, a colossal rat in her is hardly noticeable. She could probably take a 3lb rabbit no problem. I just dont have a rabbit supplier at the moment and need to work through my last big cheese order before I re stock. Ill probably feed her more frequently or give her two colossal rats next time I feed
Also starting to really think shes got some kayuadi or jampea blood in her as she measured just about 10 yesterday. Never heard of a two year old kalatoa getting that big that fast



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_AbsoluteApril_ (05-07-2018),Gio (05-06-2018),_Reinz_ (05-05-2018),_Sauzo_ (05-05-2018)

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## Reinz

Wow! 10 feet at two years. Someone sure ate all of their vitamins.  :Smile:

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_jmcrook_ (05-05-2018)

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## Sauzo

> I think it’s possible that she’s picking up Gerald’s scent and is feeling a bit randy but I’m not in the position to breed them and she’s a bit young. It was also about this time last year that her pushing got really bad and larger prey helped a bit. Honestly she probably just needs to be slammed with food, a colossal rat in her is hardly noticeable. She could probably take a 3lb rabbit no problem. I just don’t have a rabbit supplier at the moment and need to work through my last big cheese order before I re stock. I’ll probably feed her more frequently or give her two colossal rats next time I feed
> Also starting to really think she’s got some kayuadi or jampea blood in her as she measured just about 10’ yesterday. Never heard of a two year old kalatoa getting that big that fast
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


She looks awesome. Maybe you are right. I mean 10 feet is pretty big. Even Caesar whos is 31.5% dwarf and 30% mainland is about 8 feet and i slammed him food and he still eats every 10 days. Or maybe your girl is just a big girl that got fed nice and good and wasnt stunted by some sob who wanted to keep their snake small at the cost of the snakes well being. Not saying anyone on this forum does that with their retics, just saying i've seen it on FB a lot.

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_jmcrook_ (05-05-2018)

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## jmcrook

> Wow! 10 feet at two years. Someone sure ate all of their vitamins.


Well, two years and three months but yeah... I think shes juicing behind my back 


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Gio (05-06-2018),_Reinz_ (05-06-2018),_Sauzo_ (05-06-2018)

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## jmcrook

> She looks awesome. Maybe you are right. I mean 10 feet is pretty big. Even Caesar whos is 31.5% dwarf and 30% mainland is about 8 feet and i slammed him food and he still eats every 10 days. Or maybe your girl is just a big girl that got fed nice and good and wasnt stunted by some sob who wanted to keep their snake small at the cost of the snakes well being. Not saying anyone on this forum does that with their retics, just saying i've seen it on FB a lot.


Yeah, sometimes they just grow. Ive got a FB buddy with a 15yr old pure kalatoa that is 9-10 and can take a 4lb rabbit. His certainly wasnt that big at 2yrs though. Im thinking Phyllis will top 12+ at this rate. Gotta have other locale blood influences for a supposed SD to get this size this quickly. Also just gave her another colossal rat right now at day 4. Hopefully she chills out for a bit


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_Sauzo_ (05-06-2018)

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## Sauzo

> Yeah, sometimes they just grow. Ive got a FB buddy with a 15yr old pure kalatoa that is 9-10 and can take a 4lb rabbit. His certainly wasnt that big at 2yrs though. Im thinking Phyllis will top 12+ at this rate. Gotta have other locale blood influences for a supposed SD to get this size this quickly. Also just gave her another colossal rat right now at day 4. Hopefully she chills out for a bit
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Haha, i just fed Caesar an XXL guinea pig. He pounded that thing like it was a tic tac and was still out and about after......maybe I'll try a XXXL guinea pig next.

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_jmcrook_ (05-06-2018)

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## jmcrook

> Haha, i just fed Caesar an XXL guinea pig. He pounded that thing like it was a tic tac and was still out and about after......maybe I'll try a XXXL guinea pig next.


I hear ya! Phyllis pounds 4xl guinea pigs and could easily take a 5xl imo which I may order for her next. That or maybe Ill try to get ahold of monster feeders to get some rabbits 


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_Sauzo_ (05-06-2018)

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## Sauzo

> I hear ya! Phyllis pounds 4xl guinea pigs and could easily take a 5xl imo which I may order for her next. That or maybe Ill try to get ahold of monster feeders to get some rabbits 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The gal at the reptile shop finally has a reliable source for rabbits so i might get Caesar one too lol.

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_jmcrook_ (05-06-2018)

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## Gio

> Yeah, sometimes they just grow. Ive got a FB buddy with a 15yr old pure kalatoa that is 9-10 and can take a 4lb rabbit. His certainly wasnt that big at 2yrs though. Im thinking Phyllis will top 12+ at this rate. Gotta have other locale blood influences for a supposed SD to get this size this quickly. Also just gave her another colossal rat right now at day 4. Hopefully she chills out for a bit
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hey man,

Don't let her go and don't think she's necessarily a mix. She could just be a big girl and she is likely topping off.

I swear ceiling space and perches make life more interesting for them. I'm only of limited experience here but I've never had a pushing issue, and Wallace is getting bigger but I don't expect him to be much over 9 feet.

You've got a pretty girl there with a beautiful natural pattern. I think she's probably slowing in growth.


Hold the course and try a few new options before you decide to re-home her. I'd be bummed.

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_jmcrook_ (05-07-2018)

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## jmcrook

> Hey man,
> 
> Don't let her go and don't think she's necessarily a mix. She could just be a big girl and she is likely topping off.
> 
> I swear ceiling space and perches make life more interesting for them. I'm only of limited experience here but I've never had a pushing issue, and Wallace is getting bigger but I don't expect him to be much over 9 feet.
> 
> You've got a pretty girl there with a beautiful natural pattern. I think she's probably slowing in growth.
> 
> 
> Hold the course and try a few new options before you decide to re-home her. I'd be bummed.


Honestly Id be crushed to get rid of her, I was more or less just venting some frustration. I hope shes starting to top off as well. I think she just needs substantially larger prey to keep her calm. Additional perches and such are things Id like to offer her at some point but right now Im in no position to be ordering 8 cages nor do I have space for one. Even when I gave her the bigger cage her pushing didnt really change. I think shes just a big, beautiful butthead in that way. I may rig up one big perch at some point and see if she uses it but she hardly even uses the shelf anymore since she got so big. Well see though. 
She does look suspiciously like a kayuadi if you look at pics of those compared to kalatoa though. I wouldnt be surprised as everyone else Ive talked to has said shes about the biggest two year old SD theyve ever heard of


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## Sauzo

I personally think it may be Gerald as that is really the only thing left. I dont think the height or perches would make a difference. I  mean it could but you see so many people keeping these huge retics in little cages and they do fine. And some people actually say putting them in bigger cages can make them push more or start pushing. I have Caesar in the same size cage with a shelf and all and like i said, he has mellowed out on pushing BIG time. I did catch him pushing a little a few nights ago but that was close to dinner time. Now I'm not sure if you have a shelf, i thought you did. Caesar does spend a decent amount of time on his shelf.

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_jmcrook_ (05-07-2018)

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## jmcrook

> I personally think it may be Gerald as that is really the only thing left. I dont think the height or perches would make a difference. I  mean it could but you see so many people keeping these huge retics in little cages and they do fine. And some people actually say putting them in bigger cages can make them push more or start pushing. I have Caesar in the same size cage with a shelf and all and like i said, he has mellowed out on pushing BIG time. I did catch him pushing a little a few nights ago but that was close to dinner time. Now I'm not sure if you have a shelf, i thought you did. Caesar does spend a decent amount of time on his shelf.


Im thinking the same thing. I may move his cage to my bedroom and see if anything changes with Phylliss behavior. Im moving in a few weeks though so I dont really feel like moving cages around and then having to move it all again in a few weeks. 
And yeah, Phyllis has a shelf. She doesnt really spend much time on it anymore though. Once she passed ~14-15lbs she only kinda peeks around up there or rests half a coil on it lol. Doesnt really sit up there at all anymore. Ive been tempted to ditch the shelf and give her a big branch or something, might give her a little bit more stimulation in her environment? Or maybe a perch or two instead of the shelf? She might cruise over those more than using the shelf... just spitballing ideas over here hahah


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## Sauzo

> Im thinking the same thing. I may move his cage to my bedroom and see if anything changes with Phylliss behavior. Im moving in a few weeks though so I dont really feel like moving cages around and then having to move it all again in a few weeks. 
> And yeah, Phyllis has a shelf. She doesnt really spend much time on it anymore though. Once she passed ~14-15lbs she only kinda peeks around up there or rests half a coil on it lol. Doesnt really sit up there at all anymore. Ive been tempted to ditch the shelf and give her a big branch or something, might give her a little bit more stimulation in her environment? Or maybe a perch or two instead of the shelf? She might cruise over those more than using the shelf... just spitballing ideas over here hahah
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Guess with a try if you dont mind drilling holes in your cage. Nit like you have much to lose anymore.

And if you are looking for a place that does reptile perches, a guy i talk to a lot on the GTP forums gave me this place. They will even mount hardware to the branches i guess too. It's nice Manzanita wood. 

http://manzanita.com/

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_jmcrook_ (05-07-2018)

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## 67temp

No matter what her size is she still looks beautiful. It's pretty amazing to go back to page 1 of this thread and see how tiny she once was.

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_jmcrook_ (05-07-2018)

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## jmcrook

> Guess with a try if you dont mind drilling holes in your cage. Nit like you have much to lose anymore.
> 
> And if you are looking for a place that does reptile perches, a guy i talk to a lot on the GTP forums gave me this place. They will even mount hardware to the branches i guess too. It's nice Manzanita wood. 
> 
> http://manzanita.com/


I mean Im not real wild about putting too many more holes in the cage but it wouldnt be a real eyesore either. Those perches look awesome but Id probably just do hardware brackets and a couple fence post lengths like Gio did so I could pop them in and out real easily. Also looks like the biggest perches that manzanita place has are 60. Probably could do a custom ~72 piece but man I bet that aint cheap hahah. And with my luck shed paint poo all over that beautiful piece of wood too


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_Sauzo_ (05-07-2018)

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## jmcrook

> No matter what her size is she still looks beautiful. It's pretty amazing to go back to page 1 of this thread and see how tiny she once was.


Thanks you 67temp! It really is crazy to look back and know thats the same animal that used to fit in the palm of my hand. Never seen anything grow as tremendously as this snake has in the last two years 


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## Skyrivers

I am truly impressed at how fast they grow for sure. That's why it's so important to build a relationship and remember that relationships are always changing and can change in a second. I guess relationships are wrong word more like tolerance level. By the way Caesars sounds amazing


> Thanks you 67temp! It really is crazy to look back and know thats the same animal that used to fit in the palm of my hand. Never seen anything grow as tremendously as this snake has in the last two years 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Gio

> Im thinking the same thing. I may move his cage to my bedroom and see if anything changes with Phylliss behavior. Im moving in a few weeks though so I dont really feel like moving cages around and then having to move it all again in a few weeks. 
> And yeah, Phyllis has a shelf. She doesnt really spend much time on it anymore though. Once she passed ~14-15lbs she only kinda peeks around up there or rests half a coil on it lol. Doesnt really sit up there at all anymore. Ive been tempted to ditch the shelf and give her a big branch or something, might give her a little bit more stimulation in her environment? Or maybe a perch or two instead of the shelf? She might cruise over those more than using the shelf... just spitballing ideas over here hahah
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I hear you on spending more $$. I really don't think a shelf is the same as a few perches though. A shelf is pretty much the same as your cage, but cut in half or quartered. Wallace is probably a 7 footer give or take and he's always perched at night and in the mornings. He can hang down between the perches, wrap around them or zig zag between them. The dwarf/SD populations are said to be a bit more arboreal. Mounting perches won't be an issue and a few holes in plastic won't ruin your cage.

Your girl doesn't seem to be overfed so I'd expect her to be active. Many folks have luck keeping them in small cages with no stimulation. I guess that's up to the keeper. I prefer more stimulation over just throwing rabbits into a cage and then seeing my snake curled up in the same position every day. Your girl is at a wonderful size if she tops off. I guess the gamble with any retic is the potential for extremes.

Another option you could try that doesn't require cage modification is to let her climb on a ladder when you have her out. 

I don't remember the dimensions of your cage. Is it under 2 feet tall? 

Try the ladder trick if you have one and see if she will climb around and get some energy out. I really want to see her do well. Also, out of curiosity, is SHE 100% a she? I would think so based on size, but maybe if she is a he, Gerald might be causing a bother.

Keep us posted, I know you'll get it figured out.

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## jmcrook

> I hear you on spending more $$. I really don't think a shelf is the same as a few perches though. A shelf is pretty much the same as your cage, but cut in half or quartered. Wallace is probably a 7 footer give or take and he's always perched at night and in the mornings. He can hang down between the perches, wrap around them or zig zag between them. The dwarf/SD populations are said to be a bit more arboreal. Mounting perches won't be an issue and a few holes in plastic won't ruin your cage.
> 
> Your girl doesn't seem to be overfed so I'd expect her to be active. Many folks have luck keeping them in small cages with no stimulation. I guess that's up to the keeper. I prefer more stimulation over just throwing rabbits into a cage and then seeing my snake curled up in the same position every day. Your girl is at a wonderful size if she tops off. I guess the gamble with any retic is the potential for extremes.
> 
> Another option you could try that doesn't require cage modification is to let her climb on a ladder when you have her out. 
> 
> I don't remember the dimensions of your cage. Is it under 2 feet tall? 
> 
> Try the ladder trick if you have one and see if she will climb around and get some energy out. I really want to see her do well. Also, out of curiosity, is SHE 100% a she? I would think so based on size, but maybe if she is a he, Gerald might be causing a bother.
> ...


I dont have a ladder otherwise Id let her try it out. She will climb to the top of the cage stacks when shes out cruising the room though and theyre between 5.5-6 tall total. Even if I give her run of the snake room for a couple hours shes back to pushing as soon as shes in the cage again...
I agree, shelf isnt the same as perches. I may go pick up some fence posts and brackets and set a couple up and ditch her shelf. And shes in a T25 72x30x18tall. Two feet tall would be nice but just wasnt in the cards when I ordered the cage (that took six months to arrive).
I cant say 100% that shes indeed a she but Id be VERY surprised to find out otherwise. If she is a male then shes borderline mainland male size. Ive heard that sometimes females will push during breeding season as well but not as much as males.
For the time being Im gonna keep her stuffed with rats and see how she does. I wonder if the seasonal changes are telling her to go into feast mode during summer in preparation for famine season in the winter. She got really bad like this last year about the same time too and stuffing her like a thanksgiving turkey helped out some. Problem is this time to stuff her the same way would take a 3-4lb rabbit and I cant find rabbits around me for reasonable prices 


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Gio (05-07-2018)

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## AbsoluteApril

I'm really sorry to hear about the continued pushing issues. 




> I cant say 100% that shes indeed a she but Id be VERY surprised to find out otherwise. If she is a male then shes borderline mainland male size.


Mainland males get a lot larger than 10'   :Wink: 
I suspect you got a girl on the big side of things. Hopefully, as other have said, she's topping out now. She looks great and you provide a wonderful home for her.

For rabbits, have you tried finding a rabbit breeder? There are pet and meat rabbit breeders. I know some pet/fancy rabbit breeders are willing to sell culls. It's frustrating to find a good source that's for sure.

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Gio (05-07-2018)

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## jmcrook

> I'm really sorry to hear about the continued pushing issues. 
> 
> 
> 
> Mainland males get a lot larger than 10'  
> I suspect you got a girl on the big side of things. Hopefully, as other have said, she's topping out now. She looks great and you provide a wonderful home for her.
> 
> For rabbits, have you tried finding a rabbit breeder? There are pet and meat rabbit breeders. I know some pet/fancy rabbit breeders are willing to sell culls. It's frustrating to find a good source that's for sure.


Hahah I know mainland males can get much bigger, but at 2yrs shes probably about as big as a 2yr old mainland male give or take.
I havent contacted anyone about rabbits but cant find many breeders near me, which I find odd. But I am in the middle of nowhere Mississippi. Once I hear back about a job interview and know whether or not Ill be here through the summer I want to get in contact with Matthew Martin at monster feeders because he does rabbits and piglets for $2/lb and a 65lb box of frozen feeders for like $160 or something like that


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_AbsoluteApril_ (05-07-2018)

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## Gio

> I dont have a ladder otherwise Id let her try it out. She will climb to the top of the cage stacks when shes out cruising the room though and theyre between 5.5-6 tall total. Even if I give her run of the snake room for a couple hours shes back to pushing as soon as shes in the cage again...
> I agree, shelf isnt the same as perches. I may go pick up some fence posts and brackets and set a couple up and ditch her shelf. And shes in a T25 72x30x18tall. Two feet tall would be nice but just wasnt in the cards when I ordered the cage (that took six months to arrive).
> I cant say 100% that shes indeed a she but Id be VERY surprised to find out otherwise. If she is a male then shes borderline mainland male size. Ive heard that sometimes females will push during breeding season as well but not as much as males.
> For the time being Im gonna keep her stuffed with rats and see how she does. I wonder if the seasonal changes are telling her to go into feast mode during summer in preparation for famine season in the winter. She got really bad like this last year about the same time too and stuffing her like a thanksgiving turkey helped out some. Problem is this time to stuff her the same way would take a 3-4lb rabbit and I cant find rabbits around me for reasonable prices 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Good guess on the seasonal changes. It happens to all of mine here every year, especially when things really heat up the activity level goes up and the feeding intervals become more frequent.

I do remember your wait for the cage too LOL, it was a long one! I was VERY close to buying the exact cage but felt I needed a 2 foot tall cage at the least. I wish I had a 3 footer, but we all have limits we have to set. 

I'm sure I'll run into some pushing with Wallace at some point. It's the nature of the hobby and I went for the retic, because of the activity level.

I know a lot of these are only 50% SD and some are Jamps and so on but I'm not so sure your girl is way too large for her age or mixed. I wonder if she's a first generation gal?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhxMtNIOWqE

Check out the 50% SD male tiger here.

It also looks like your girl fits the ranges here.
http://www.vitalexotics.com/reticula...on-care-sheet/
Maybe she's just on the larger end is all.

Try a rabbit and wait a while. Then try a rat, and double back in a short time with a quail.  Let her ride for a bit after that. See if some larger infrequent meals followed by some smaller frequent meals, and bit of a famine period changes anything.

Size wise I don't think you will have a problem with her. I think she'll hit a slowdown soon. 
I'm more concerned about her pushing. Retics seem quite aware of where the cage doors are and they may push for different reasons. My carpet was pushing, but not for food, she'd just do it, then she'd change her habit and decided climbing was more fun.

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_jmcrook_ (05-07-2018)

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## jmcrook

> Good guess on the seasonal changes. It happens to all of mine here every year, especially when things really heat up the activity level goes up and the feeding intervals become more frequent.
> 
> I do remember your wait for the cage too LOL, it was a long one! I was VERY close to buying the exact cage but felt I needed a 2 foot tall cage at the least. I wish I had a 3 footer, but we all have limits we have to set. 
> 
> I'm sure I'll run into some pushing with Wallace at some point. It's the nature of the hobby and I went for the retic, because of the activity level.
> 
> I know a lot of these are only 50% SD and some are Jamps and so on but I'm not so sure your girl is way too large for her age or mixed. I wonder if she's a first generation gal?
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhxMtNIOWqE
> 
> ...


Id love to offer her a more varied diet but only have access to way overpriced rats locally. Pretty much have to order online or pay $9/jumbo at the shop in town.
And yes, she is first generation captive bred. Parents were wild caught imports from kalatoa I was told, though dad was exceptionally dark for kalatoa.
As for her size shes luckily not bad to work with at all. Except when she doesnt want to go back in her cage. When the 10 20lb snake says Im going this way theres not much you can do about it haha. 
Shes at day two after feeding the other night and hasnt moved from her warm hide. Ill leave her be and see how long before she pees and goes back to the races


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Gio (05-07-2018)

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## Gio

> Id love to offer her a more varied diet but only have access to way overpriced rats locally. Pretty much have to order online or pay $9/jumbo at the shop in town.
> And yes, she is first generation captive bred. Parents were wild caught imports from kalatoa I was told, though dad was exceptionally dark for kalatoa.
> As for her size shes luckily not bad to work with at all. Except when she doesnt want to go back in her cage. When the 10 20lb snake says Im going this way theres not much you can do about it haha. 
> Shes at day two after feeding the other night and hasnt moved from her warm hide. Ill leave her be and see how long before she pees and goes back to the races
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I haven't checked in a while, but Matthew Martin (Monster Crew) (Monster Feeders) has everything if I recall. Pigs, rats, rabbits, however I'm not sure on quail.

I think his prices are decent as well.

Just a thought. 

I'm likely keeping the group here on a mix of rats, quail and rabbit. 
The boa and carpet will take rabbit, though I keep my guys fairly lean. A healthy lean that is  :Good Job:

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_jmcrook_ (05-07-2018)

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## AnnieHeart

I love all the pictures!!!

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_jmcrook_ (05-07-2018)

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## AbsoluteApril

> Hahah I know mainland males can get much bigger, but at 2yrs shes probably about as big as a 2yr old mainland male give or take.


Oh! lol okay gotcha!  :Very Happy: 




> I havent contacted anyone about rabbits but cant find many breeders near me, which I find odd. But I am in the middle of nowhere Mississippi.


I understand it's not a rush or anything but just some info you might find useful in the future. I cannot vouch for how up to date these listings are. I mentioned the pet rabbit breeders because a while back I was approached by a fancy breeder offering to sell me culls of either retired breeders or baby/youngs that weren't show/seller quality. I guess it would depend on the breeder if they would be offended or not by the inquiry. The lady I spoke with already froze the culls so it was no big deal to her to sell them as feeders. 

This website lists rabbit meat breeders by state, if you go that route make sure they know you want whole animals and not cleaned:
http://www.rudolphsrabbitranch.com/rrrbrdusa.htm
this website is for pet/fancy breeders
http://rabbitbreeders.us/mississippi-rabbit-breeders

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_jmcrook_ (05-07-2018)

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## jmcrook

Welp, two days after her last feeding (two feedings in the last six days) and shes pushing her face off again... Im running out of hair to tear out of my head. Might move Geralds cage to another room tonight or tomorrow and see if that changes anything. Pretty much the only thing I havent tried


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## Gio

> Welp, two days after her last feeding (two feedings in the last six days) and shes pushing her face off again... Im running out of hair to tear out of my head. Might move Geralds cage to another room tonight or tomorrow and see if that changes anything. Pretty much the only thing I havent tried
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hey bud,

Thinking no way is it food related pushing. Im also wondering about a really small enclosure for a bit. Almost tub sized.

Just a thought.

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## jmcrook

read my mind dude. I was just thinking to switch her and Gerald, put him in the T25 and her back in her old T8. I might just do that

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Gio (05-07-2018)

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## Gio

> read my mind dude. I was just thinking to switch her and Gerald, put him in the T25 and her back in her old T8. I might just do that


Cool give it a try. 
And maybe smaller yet if that doesnt work. 

We will solve this!

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## Sauzo

> Welp, two days after her last feeding (two feedings in the last six days) and shes pushing her face off again... Im running out of hair to tear out of my head. Might move Geralds cage to another room tonight or tomorrow and see if that changes anything. Pretty much the only thing I havent tried
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think it has to do with Gerald. Even as foody as Caesar was as a baby and even now. He doesnt actually push until a day or 2 before food day and like i said, he has slowed down on pushing a LOT since it seems breeding season is over.

I'm just glad Caesar didnt turn into a demon during breeding season and get mean like i have read quite a few males can and will do.

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_jmcrook_ (05-08-2018)

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## Sauzo

> read my mind dude. I was just thinking to switch her and Gerald, put him in the T25 and her back in her old T8. I might just do that


I would personally move Gerald or whatever snake is in the smaller cage. I dont think stuffing Phyllis in a T8 is going to do anything but make her push more. When i put Caesar in my 'cleaning T8' that i use for the active snakes when i dont have time to watch them and clean the cage, Caesar really isnt happy about it and after about 10 mins of looking around, he starts pushing on the doors to get out for pretty much the full 30 mins it takes to clean his cage.

Imo, not the best idea.

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_jmcrook_ (05-08-2018)

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## jmcrook

Just finished shuffling cages around... of course I had Gerald in the middle cage in the stack so had to move two cages to move his. 
Gerald is now in my bedroom, the next room over from the snake room. Good lord I hope this gets Phyllis to chill out. Only other thing I could think besides Gerald is that theres something irritating in her nose causing her to keep pushing. 
Cross your fingers for me everyone. I need a beer... or several


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## Sauzo

> Just finished shuffling cages around... of course I had Gerald in the middle cage in the stack so had to move two cages to move his. 
> Gerald is now in my bedroom, the next room over from the snake room. Good lord I hope this gets Phyllis to chill out. Only other thing I could think besides Gerald is that there’s something irritating in her nose causing her to keep pushing. 
> Cross your fingers for me everyone. I need a beer... or several
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Haha good luck brutha. I know the feeling. I actually had thoughts of rehoming Caesar when he was at the peak of pushing too. I wouldnt have but the thought did cross my mind. All the hamburger face nights is just stressful. I honestly do think its the male/female thing. I mean you have tried everything for Phyllis from more food, bigger food, lower temps, higher temps, everything.

This is the the biggest reason i havent gone with another retic yet as i do have an extra cage. I dont want to get a female and have issues with pushing and i dont want to get a male in case they smell each other and become combative during breeding time and take it out on me lol. Although i have seen a lot of videos with people with multiple males in the same room and even same cage stacks and they are fine.

Anyways, good luck man and hopefully this works.

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_jmcrook_ (05-08-2018)

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## jmcrook

> Haha good luck brutha. I know the feeling. I actually had thoughts of rehoming Caesar when he was at the peak of pushing too. I wouldnt have but the thought did cross my mind. All the hamburger face nights is just stressful. I honestly do think its the male/female thing. I mean you have tried everything for Phyllis from more food, bigger food, lower temps, higher temps, everything.
> 
> This is the the biggest reason i havent gone with another retic yet as i do have an extra cage. I dont want to get a female and have issues with pushing and i dont want to get a male in case they smell each other and become combative during breeding time and take it out on me lol. Although i have seen a lot of videos with people with multiple males in the same room and even same cage stacks and they are fine.
> 
> Anyways, good luck man and hopefully this works.


Thanks man! Glad to know I wasnt the only one that was getting super frustrated at some point or another. I love this snake to death. Only critter that Ive had that Ive raised from a brand new, three week old hatchling to adult size. But seeing her with a rhino nose and swollen lips all the time makes me stressed out. Shes totally fine aside from that. Ill just keep eliminating variables until something works and hopefully this can get sorted out. Honestly she feels a bit pudgy to me but maybe she just needs a freaking behemoth meal to make her sit still for a good week. Couldnt tell tonight that she had eaten two days ago aside from a slight sausage butt. I really need to get rabbits or 5xl guinea pigs to at least offer occasionally 


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_Sauzo_ (05-08-2018)

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## Sauzo

> Thanks man! Glad to know I wasnt the only one that was getting super frustrated at some point or another. I love this snake to death. Only critter that Ive had that Ive raised from a brand new, three week old hatchling to adult size. But seeing her with a rhino nose and swollen lips all the time makes me stressed out. Shes totally fine aside from that. Ill just keep eliminating variables until something works and hopefully this can get sorted out. Honestly she feels a bit pudgy to me but maybe she just needs a freaking behemoth meal to make her sit still for a good week. Couldnt tell tonight that she had eaten two days ago aside from a slight sausage butt. I really need to get rabbits or 5xl guinea pigs to at least offer occasionally 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Haha me too. I've been feeding Caesar jumbo rats every 10 days but they barely leave a lump and within a day, its gone. I tried the 2XL guinea pig and it left a noticeable lump but tonight, he is out already. Been 2 days. I might need to try a 3XL but dang, they are almost $20 at the pet shop.

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_Skyrivers_ (05-08-2018)

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## Gio

> I would personally move Gerald or whatever snake is in the smaller cage. I dont think stuffing Phyllis in a T8 is going to do anything but make her push more. When i put Caesar in my 'cleaning T8' that i use for the active snakes when i dont have time to watch them and clean the cage, Caesar really isnt happy about it and after about 10 mins of looking around, he starts pushing on the doors to get out for pretty much the full 30 mins it takes to clean his cage.
> 
> Imo, not the best idea.


Actually if you have exhausted all other options it is a good idea. Some, but not all do better in a smaller cage. Females may react to another male, but its usually the males that react to pheromones given off by the female. Maybe your girl is a boy and doesnt like Gerald. 

Hard to say at this point but if you dont have anything else to try, try a smaller cage and see if it helps. Maybe it will maybe it wont. And as far as food, there is no wild retic that eats constantly they just dont. I think you are good on the feeding end.

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_AbsoluteApril_ (05-08-2018),_jmcrook_ (05-08-2018)

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## Skyrivers

> Haha me too. I've been feeding Caesar jumbo rats every 10 days but they barely leave a lump and within a day, its gone. I tried the 2XL guinea pig and it left a noticeable lump but tonight, he is out already. Been 2 days. I might need to try a 3XL but dang, they are almost $20 at the pet shop.


Last feeding I gave Rainbow two XL rats and that was after she went 7 days between feedings (the longest time I have made her go between feedings). Hope she can make it to 10 or more this time before she turns her cage upside down looking for food. She is a pooping and peeing machine. I am just happy she is calm and happy. 

Does your retic poop or pee almost every time you handle them? Rainbow started doing this. 10 to 15 min into being handled she poops or pees. Monty does as well about 5 or so minuets into being handles. I think moving gets their body working to empty out so they can be more active. Just a theory though.

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## jmcrook

Well, she continued her reign of terror last night. She pooped also so that could be a contributing factor as she generally destroys her cage after a #2. If she pushes like crazy again tonight Im putting her in Geralds T8 and seeing what happens.


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## Skyrivers

> Well, she continued her reign of terror last night. She pooped also so that could be a contributing factor as she generally destroys her cage after a #2. If she pushes like crazy again tonight Im putting her in Geralds T8 and seeing what happens.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Good luck and keep us posted.

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## jmcrook

> Does your retic poop or pee almost every time you handle them? Rainbow started doing this. 10 to 15 min into being handled she poops or pees. Monty does as well about 5 or so minuets into being handles. I think moving gets their body working to empty out so they can be more active. Just a theory though.


lol welcome to retics. Very fast metabolism and handling seems to jumpstart their movements hahah


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## Sauzo

> Actually if you have exhausted all other options it is a good idea. Some, but not all do better in a smaller cage. Females may react to another male, but it’s usually the males that react to pheromones given off by the female. Maybe your girl is a boy and doesn’t like Gerald. 
> 
> Hard to say at this point but if you don’t have anything else to try, try a smaller cage and see if it helps. Maybe it will maybe it won’t. And as far as food, there is no wild retic that eats constantly they just don’t. I think you are good on the feeding end.


I agree that retics dont eat that much in the wild but I am pretty sure they are constantly on the hunt for food or at least active. I mean Jacob can try the T8, cant hurt but i really dont think it will change things. Phyllis sounds like a girl version of a Caesar and i can tell you, when i put Caesar in a T8 with a shelf, he was NOT happy with that and sat at the front trying to shove his face down between the litter dam and sliding doors and even on the sides and top. Not to mention, Caesar is only 8 feet and he couldnt even stretch out or basically turn around. I pictured it like me being shoved in a closet. Would suck lol. Phyllis is pushing 10 feet i think. She would be over 2 times as long as a T8, not to mention, she wouldnt even really be able to even raise her head lol. T8s are pretty freakin small. Even my 4.5 foot BP looked huge in one haha. To give you an idea, their inside height is only like 10.5 inches or so.

Count your blessings that Wallace isnt that foody or pushy. I know what Jacob is going through as Caesar was like that for about a year lol. He still pushes some when it comes close to food day but like i said, in his case, i think it was wanting to breed as he pushes probably a 1/4 or even less than what he did a couple months ago.

 I also think i might have been underfeeding him as i just checked him last night by wrapping my hand around his mid section and he is easily as thick as a coke can. The jumbo rats i've been feeding him or at least jumbo by pet shop standards(weighs around 350 grams) barely even make a dent in him. I think i am going to have to switch him to rabbits as his staple. I dont want to do guinea pigs as the staple as they tend to be fatty. 

But hey, might as well try everything. I just figured it was easier and quicker to just take Gerald's T8 and move it into a different room first.

I'm kind of surprised Gerald hasnt been pushing too. 




> Last feeding I gave Rainbow two XL rats and that was after she went 7 days between feedings (the longest time I have made her go between feedings). Hope she can make it to 10 or more this time before she turns her cage upside down looking for food. She is a pooping and peeing machine. I am just happy she is calm and happy. 
> 
> Does your retic poop or pee almost every time you handle them? Rainbow started doing this. 10 to 15 min into being handled she poops or pees. Monty does as well about 5 or so minuets into being handles. I think moving gets their body working to empty out so they can be more active. Just a theory though.


Caesar has only even pooped outside the cage once and that was on the floor when i let him wander. He has only pissed outside the cage once too and that was directly on my bare foot which i think he planned despite snakes not thinking like that. Inside his cage he pisses a lot though. Mostly just little 'markings' here and there but every once in awhile, i find a huge urate. This past 2 days, he dropped 2 huge urates in 2 days but he also ate a 2XL guinea pig.

And like Jacob said, welcome to the world of retics. They poop and piss all the time....and eat all the time.......and sometimes push and destroy stuff.

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_jmcrook_ (05-09-2018)

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## jmcrook

Sauzo,
Gerald most definitely pushes. Frequently but just not as forcefully as Phyllis and as such doesnt incur much if any face damage.  Hes pushing right now actually and making quite a commotion lol
As of right now, Phyllis is totally chill. Hasnt moved from her warm hide all day. Maybe she was being crazy last night because she pooped and wanted out (I had a few drinks and respect both of our well being enough to leave her be if I feel Im impaired). Who knows but Im not counting my chickens before they hatch. Just gonna cross my fingers and hope that moving Gerald will have solved the issue.
Unrelated, a guy I follow on Instagram posted a 3.5yr old kayuadi/Madu cross whose parents were 8 and the snake in the image was 3.6meters according to him, just under 12. Makes me wonder even more if Phyllis has some other Island influences in her background. Or if F1 SD retics just tend to get considerably larger than their parents.



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_Sauzo_ (05-09-2018)

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## Sauzo

> Sauzo,
> Gerald most definitely pushes. Frequently but just not as forcefully as Phyllis and as such doesnt incur much if any face damage.  Hes pushing right now actually and making quite a commotion lol
> As of right now, Phyllis is totally chill. Hasnt moved from her warm hide all day. Maybe she was being crazy last night because she pooped and wanted out (I had a few drinks and respect both of our well being enough to leave her be if I feel Im impaired). Who knows but Im not counting my chickens before they hatch. Just gonna cross my fingers and hope that moving Gerald will have solved the issue.
> Unrelated, a guy I follow on Instagram posted a 3.5yr old kayuadi/Madu cross whose parents were 8 and the snake in the image was 3.6meters according to him, just under 12. Makes me wonder even more if Phyllis has some other Island influences in her background. Or if F1 SD retics just tend to get considerably larger than their parents.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Could be the poop. I know Rosey and Vicky both will pace the front of their cages when they poop and sometimes when they piss. It's like they dont want to be near their poop. Caesar will do it too but usually only for poops. He has done it for pisses too but very rarely and only for BIG pisses.

Not sure what is up with him tonight though. Last night, he loved the petting session. Today he was kind of cranky when i removed his hide to check for pisses. He just looked at me and when i pet him, he shoved my hand away a few times lol. Then later on at night, I opened the cage to pet him and he wandered off. Not sure why he is being moody but i just left him alone haha.

And sorry but i cant help laugh that Gerald is pushing too. My god, Caesar alone pushing made me sweat bullets all the time. I couldnt imagine having 2 snakes pushing all the time lol.

As for Phyllis having some dwarf in her maybe, its possible i guess. I mean she also might just be well fed and just a big girl like Gio said. I mean Caesar's dad was only like 6 feet and his mom was 8-9 feet. Caesar is pushing 8 feet and easily as thick as a coke can. Dont know his weight but he is pretty heavy. He is definitely a big boy. Honestly a bit bigger than i planned for but luckily he is really laid back unless i touch his tail without him knowing its me touching his tail. Boy that almost ended badly when i shoved his tail over with the temp gauge and he didnt know it was me.... But who knows, maybe Phyllis does have something else in her.

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## jmcrook

> Could be the poop. I know Rosey and Vicky both will pace the front of their cages when they poop and sometimes when they piss. It's like they dont want to be near their poop. Caesar will do it too but usually only for poops. He has done it for pisses too but very rarely and only for BIG pisses.
> 
> Not sure what is up with him tonight though. Last night, he loved the petting session. Today he was kind of cranky when i removed his hide to check for pisses. He just looked at me and when i pet him, he shoved my hand away a few times lol. Then later on at night, I opened the cage to pet him and he wandered off. Not sure why he is being moody but i just left him alone haha.
> 
> And sorry but i cant help laugh that Gerald is pushing too. My god, Caesar alone pushing made me sweat bullets all the time. I couldnt imagine having 2 snakes pushing all the time lol.
> 
> As for Phyllis having some dwarf in her maybe, its possible i guess. I mean she also might just be well fed and just a big girl like Gio said. I mean Caesar's dad was only like 6 feet and his mom was 8-9 feet. Caesar is pushing 8 feet and easily as thick as a coke can. Dont know his weight but he is pretty heavy. He is definitely a big boy. Honestly a bit bigger than i planned for but luckily he is really laid back unless i touch his tail without him knowing its me touching his tail. Boy that almost ended badly when i shoved his tail over with the temp gauge and he didnt know it was me.... But who knows, maybe Phyllis does have something else in her.


Yeah without paperwork from the importers its hard to be 100% certain. I was told kalatoa parents however, that were ~5 maybe 6 dad and ~7 mom = 10 Phyllis. Gerald was ~6 ultra anery dad and ~11 platinum/fire het anery mom = ~7 Gerald. Hes so much leaner than Phyllis. Probably only 2-3 shorter at most but is maybe 1/3 Phylliss girth. I really wish yall could see her in person. Shes quite the sight when shes out and about. 
And hahaha yeah Geralds always pushed a little. Just doesnt completely fold his face in half like Phyllis does. Never gets swollen lips or anything so I dont worry about it. He eats, poops, sheds, and does everything else just fine so if pushing doesnt hurt his face then I say go for it Gerald lol 


Crazy critter kids... 
thats Phyllis with a small rat that Geoffrey turned down hahah! Her head is as big as the rat 

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Gio (05-09-2018),_Reinz_ (05-09-2018),_Sauzo_ (05-09-2018)

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## Sauzo

That's weird as usually if the mom is big, the kid ends up big. Guess Gerald bucked that trend lol.

And yeah, Caesar is definitely a full figured male retic. He might be a smidge overweight but it doesnt really show as his head is still bigger than his body and his tail is streamline to the rest of him. This is my first retic so not sure what to really look for but everything seems to be in proportion.

Haha, I'm not sure what Caesar would do if i gave him a small rat. i dont think he could even wrap it. I gave Vicky a small rat once and she is 6 foot and she couldnt even hold it lol. She spun around all over trying to get a grip on it and then gave up and just swallowed it.

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Gio (05-09-2018),_jmcrook_ (05-09-2018),_Kcl_ (05-10-2018)

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## 67temp

I was setting up another enclosure last night and while doing the lighting I had a random thought. I'm sure it probably wont stop the pushing, but have you messed with adjusting the amount of light she gets? Similar to how you can put a blanket over a bird and put them into sleep mode.

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## Skyrivers

> Could be the poop. I know Rosey and Vicky both will pace the front of their cages when they poop and sometimes when they piss. It's like they dont want to be near their poop. Caesar will do it too but usually only for poops. He has done it for pisses too but very rarely and only for BIG pisses.
> 
> Not sure what is up with him tonight though. Last night, he loved the petting session. Today he was kind of cranky when i removed his hide to check for pisses. He just looked at me and when i pet him, he shoved my hand away a few times lol. Then later on at night, I opened the cage to pet him and he wandered off. Not sure why he is being moody but i just left him alone haha.
> 
> And sorry but i cant help laugh that Gerald is pushing too. My god, Caesar alone pushing made me sweat bullets all the time. I couldnt imagine having 2 snakes pushing all the time lol.
> 
> As for Phyllis having some dwarf in her maybe, its possible i guess. I mean she also might just be well fed and just a big girl like Gio said. I mean Caesar's dad was only like 6 feet and his mom was 8-9 feet. Caesar is pushing 8 feet and easily as thick as a coke can. Dont know his weight but he is pretty heavy. He is definitely a big boy. Honestly a bit bigger than i planned for but luckily he is really laid back unless i touch his tail without him knowing its me touching his tail. Boy that almost ended badly when i shoved his tail over with the temp gauge and he didnt know it was me.... But who knows, maybe Phyllis does have something else in her.


I keep reading about everyone's retics pushing right now. I don't think I have seen Rainbow do it from the time I have had her. I have seen her move things around and do what looks like scratching an itch on the side of her hide a few times. She mostly sleeps and moves around when I get home. That is when I usually take her out so she expects a play secession so to speak. Then  she crawls into her enclosure and then looks back to see if food is coming. I don't think she would ever turn down food. She then spends about 30 min or so roaming around looking and hoping for food before going back into her hide. 

My ASF colony is getting a little larger than I want so I grabbed 2 of the boys to feed off and tossed them to her. She grabbed one quickly but was like "How do I eat something so small?" Took her a minuet but she figured it out. Eating and pooping machine for sure. 

She has never attempted to strike at me. The worst I get is a tail whip when putting her back and when she wants to be left alone she will flop her body when being touched. I hope she stays that calm but am always prepared if she doesn't. 

Good luck with all the pushing and moodiness of everyone's retics.

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## jmcrook

> I was setting up another enclosure last night and while doing the lighting I had a random thought. I'm sure it probably wont stop the pushing, but have you messed with adjusting the amount of light she gets? Similar to how you can put a blanket over a bird and put them into sleep mode.


Yeah, I tried covering the cage doors with dark paper and it didnt do much if anything. Other people have said that works like a charm but not here. It doesnt look like she budged last night though, Im really hoping that moving Gerald was the key 


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## AbsoluteApril

If a smaller cage doesn't work (and yes, sometimes that works) have you considered trying a tub? Some will push in cages with front opening doors but won't in a semi-opaque tub. Not ideal of course but either is hamburger face. Hopefully the move of Gerald will fix it.
I wish there was a magic formula to get them to knock it off. "Like, come on! you are doing this to yourself, stop it!" (that's me, admonishing a pusher lol)

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Gio (05-09-2018),_jmcrook_ (05-09-2018),_RickyNY_ (05-09-2018)

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## jmcrook

> If a smaller cage doesn't work (and yes, sometimes that works) have you considered trying a tub? Some will push in cages with front opening doors but won't in a semi-opaque tub. Not ideal of course but either is hamburger face. Hopefully the move of Gerald will fix it.
> I wish there was a magic formula to get them to knock it off. "Like, come on! you are doing this to yourself, stop it!" (that's me, admonishing a pusher lol)


I had kinda considered it off and on. Need to get an xmas tree tub though, she completely fills a 100qt hefty tub now and would be cramped even in an xmas tree tub too as theyre about the same size as a T8 just a little longer and taller but not as wide. Ill keep yall posted on her behavior. 
Ive definitely been screaming into the void about her pushing as well lol Phyllis! Just stooooooooooooop!
Now that Im looking at my records she might have just started her shed cycle. She goes about every 5 weeks and were right at a month now. Will probably be quiet for a week, shed, and then well see more accurately if Gerald is/was the pushing catalyst 


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_AbsoluteApril_ (05-09-2018),_RickyNY_ (05-09-2018)

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## Gio

It is a hard one to figure out. It seems you've covered all the bases. Her body looks great as does her pattern and shine. I guess you could try to drop temps a bit more, but I'm not sure how you have it set now.

I use a 5 degree night drop in all of my cages. This drop along with low or no light always causes our snakes to become very active at night. Once the morning hits and the temps ramp up they all settle.

Phylis is at the very least some type of SD/D locale maybe not exactly what you thought but even still she's part of the SD equation. They (SD locales) typically have very seasonal eating habits. Mostly based on migratory birds, and other animals that become active when the birds flock to the smaller islands.

Breeding behavior in a lot of male retics sends them off feed, I could certainly see it stimulate the feeding urge in a female, at least for a short time prior to courting as they want to have their tanks full so to speak. 

That said they (retics) are ALL ambush predators that don't constantly eat, and don't constantly forage. They may do some active hunting at times, but that requires and expends a lot of energy which reptiles are experts at conserving. Retics, may be one of the more, if not the most active of the boas and pythons but they are not designed for constant movement.

Pinpointing the cause of pushing is difficult. I don't deal with it, but that doesn't make me an expert or prove my setup or husbandry is spot on. I may or may not deal with it later on.

I don't think simply throwing food at the problem is the answer at all. If it stops the pushing, it only seems to for a short time in many cases. A day or two of digesting with the pushing resuming shortly after indicates SOMETHING else, but I'm not sure what.

I think JM is trying everything he can which is all he can do.

If somebody had an easy solution, it would certainly shorten this discussion.

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_jmcrook_ (05-09-2018),_Skyrivers_ (05-09-2018)

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## Sauzo

Definitely sucks for him. Like i said, with Caesar, i just threw food at him the last couple months he pushed heavily but like said, i think he was wanting a girlfriend. He did eat though like a madman during that time but honestly i dont find that surprising. He ate within 2 hours of me unpacking him from the delivery box and never quit or turned down a meal, even in shed.

He has been really quiet though the past week. During the day, he sleeps in one of his hides and at night, he comes out and completely stretches out on the cage floor or stretches out on the shelf.

I still stick by my thoughts of Gerald being the cause.

Something i have noticed with having 3 pythons and 5 boas is my pythons are much more active than the boas. The GTP, BP and retic are usually active nightly unless they have eaten. The boas are more or less out at night but mostly find a spot they like and just sit there. And the dumerils, she just burrows around and usually will pop her head up at the front of the cage and just sit there at night.

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## Gio

> Definitely sucks for him. Like i said, with Caesar, i just threw food at him the last couple months he pushed heavily but like said, i think he was wanting a girlfriend. He did eat though like a madman during that time but honestly i dont find that surprising. He ate within 2 hours of me unpacking him from the delivery box and never quit or turned down a meal, even in shed.
> 
> He has been really quiet though the past week. During the day, he sleeps in one of his hides and at night, he comes out and completely stretches out on the cage floor or stretches out on the shelf.
> 
> I still stick by my thoughts of Gerald being the cause.
> 
> Something i have noticed with having 3 pythons and 5 boas is my pythons are much more active than the boas. The GTP, BP and retic are usually active nightly unless they have eaten. The boas are more or less out at night but mostly find a spot they like and just sit there. And the dumerils, she just burrows around and usually will pop her head up at the front of the cage and just sit there at night.


If she's a she, I doubt it is Gerald. 

Male retics are known for going crazy and arching and being combative during breeding time. Females typically don't react the same. In most species, and this includes all animals, it's the male that has to put on the show to attract the female and battle the other contenders for the rights to breed. Females will signal their readiness with pheromones but don't go nuts looking for a mate. 

If it ends up being Gerald, I'd guess it is a male VS male issue, not a female all jacked up for a male.

Again, everything we say here is speculation as to why the constant pushing is taking place. Maybe she's just wired to explore.

Time will hopefully set things in the right direction.

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_jmcrook_ (05-09-2018)

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## Sauzo

> If she's a she, I doubt it is Gerald. 
> 
> Male retics are known for going crazy and arching and being combative during breeding time. Females typically don't react the same. In most species, and this includes all animals, it's the male that has to put on the show to attract the female and battle the other contenders for the rights to breed. Females will signal their readiness with pheromones but don't go nuts looking for a mate. 
> 
> If it ends up being Gerald, I'd guess it is a male VS male issue, not a female all jacked up for a male.
> 
> Again, everything we say here is speculation as to why the constant pushing is taking place. Maybe she's just wired to explore.
> 
> Time will hopefully set things in the right direction.


True but Jacob has tried everything from raising temps, lowering temps, more food, less food, covering the cage, hides, no hides, more outside time to try and wear her out, higher humidity, lower humidity. Heck i think he even changed substrates. While i agree, males are usually the ones who are difficult, doesnt mean a female couldnt be difficult too and reacting different. My female BP has been very active the past month or so and i know she is a female as i had my vet probe her.

Phyllis could be a guy i guess but in that case, Daniel Solis would be completely wrong on 100% Phyllis because she was sold as a female pure Kalatoa. Now it might be a male Kalatoa mix? Thats a pretty big 'oops' lol.

And yeah, all we are doing is guessing on reasons as the snake cant talk which would make life easier maybe or maybe not. Imagine your retic asking you for feed 24/7 lol.

Like i said, count your blessings Wallace isnt pushy or foody. I know what Jacob is dealing with as i went through it with Caesar for a couple months. The weird thing is Caesar never arched or got combative thank god. He just got really pushy.

And funny thing is my BP actually arches her back when i pet her which she never did before during her yearly not eating sessions. She also wasnt out any more than usual when in her non feeding time. 

But anyways, we'll see what happens. Hopefully this fixes the pushing issue.

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## Gio

> True but Jacob has tried everything from raising temps, lowering temps, more food, less food, covering the cage, hides, no hides, more outside time to try and wear her out, higher humidity, lower humidity. Heck i think he even changed substrates. While i agree, males are usually the ones who are difficult, doesnt mean a female couldnt be difficult too and reacting different. My female BP has been very active the past month or so and i know she is a female as i had my vet probe her.
> 
> Phyllis could be a guy i guess but in that case, Daniel Solis would be completely wrong on 100% Phyllis because she was sold as a female pure Kalatoa. Now it might be a male Kalatoa mix? Thats a pretty big 'oops' lol.
> 
> And yeah, all we are doing is guessing on reasons as the snake cant talk which would make life easier maybe or maybe not. Imagine your retic asking you for feed 24/7 lol.
> 
> Like i said, count your blessings Wallace isnt pushy or foody. I know what Jacob is dealing with as i went through it with Caesar for a couple months. The weird thing is Caesar never arched or got combative thank god. He just got really pushy.
> 
> And funny thing is my BP actually arches her back when i pet her which she never did before during her yearly not eating sessions. She also wasnt out any more than usual when in her non feeding time. 
> ...


The thing is,
He hasn't tried the smaller cage yet or real perches which is something that may help. Even a taller cage, which is a financial burden at this point, could be another possible solution.

My BP will arch if I pet her back but that is a much different behavior from a male retic arching and putting on a display. Male VS male combat is real in retics and a lot of the carpets. Females don't battle. When there is any type of brooding ball with snakes, its multiple males surrounding a female, and not the other way around.

I'm not really counting my blessing as I don't think ALL retics push. I have never had a problem snake of any species here. I have 2 female pythons, and 1 male. Though hybridization is a possibility, I highly doubt Wallace will react to either female python in the house. If I had a female retic, I'd expect some different behaviors from Wallace. My male boa is a non factor in all of it.

My females (other species) certainly will not care and don't if Wallace is in the same room. From the captive collections I've seen videos of, I've not once seen a female mentioned as a problem with males in the room. No pushing or odd displays. However I have seen mention of males experiencing the typical male testosterone, machismo causing issues with handling, combat and pushing. 

If Phyllis is a gal, I just doubt she's in a big tizzy to get to Gerald. Maybe some increased appetite, but JM is feeding plenty, or some food refusal, but trying desperately to find a mate???  I just don't think so.

Although I agree it is one of the few stones unturned in this situation so maybe its worth a try.

I guess we'll see what JM finds out with the next changes.

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_jmcrook_ (05-09-2018)

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## Sauzo

Well the smaller cage might work but i dont buy perches or a taller cage making a difference. If anything, a lower cage will match more with the smaller cage idea. There are plenty of 14+ foot retics in 18 inch cages that dont push. Also those same retics are kept in bare cages with no hides and no perch or shelf and do fine.

And while i agree, the Gerald thing is grasping at straws, it is the easiest and cheapest thing to do atm.

Also, i know that females shouldnt care. Remember, i got 3 female boas, 1 is 5+ years old, other is 4 years old and one is 1.5 years old. I also got 2 male boas, both about 2 years old and i never seen any kind of behavior difference in them.

And i dont think its food either. Not 2 days after eating all the time. I could buy it if it was maybe after 7 days or so. Although maybe Phyllis needs bigger food. A jumbo rat is pretty much leaving nothing. But who knows.

I agree, not all retics push but enough do that most breeders will mention it and on the retic FB pages you see lots about pushing too.

Next thing if this doesnt work is probably putting her in the 4x2 cage but at 10 feet, that is going to be a tight fit. Here is Caesar in a T8 and he is only 8 feet like i mentioned. It's also a cleaning cage so i have nothing in it except aspen and the flexwatt going to just keep it warmer.



Anyways, I guess we'll find out one way or another hopefully all our combined heads can cure the Phyllis fiasco!!!  :Very Happy:

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Gio (05-09-2018),_jmcrook_ (05-09-2018)

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## Gio

It may just be an individual thing. 

I have grandson dog of the best, most titled male Presa Canario dog Ive ever owned and his grandson is nothing like he was. Way high maintenance and busy. 

Every animal has its own personality. 

I just hope JM can get a handle on the self destructive behaviors. 

Its no fun watching something you adore ruin itself.

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_jmcrook_ (05-10-2018),_Sauzo_ (05-10-2018)

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## jmcrook

Shes definitely going into shed right now which of course would be the one variable I didnt anticipate when moving Geralds cage.  I think honestly some of it is food related. Some of it could be an irritation issue with something related to her face. Unfortunately the worthless vet in town is uncomfortable seeing a snake over 4-5feet so Ill have to make an appointment with a vet close to two hours away to rule out that variable. 
It could be she needs more stimulation in her environment and I may try perches to solve that. But given that Im moving in a few weeks and have a job interview across the country around the same time I have to budget my time and efforts differently for the moment. Currently have her cage on room ambient temps with flexwatt hot spot keeping her at 78-79* and 85-88*. Humidity it pegged at 80% because thank you Mississippi balminess hah.
My friend that has bred these snakes in the past has kept telling me that sometimes they just push and thats how it is. That theyll heal themselves just fine with food and heat. I can never help but fear for the worst because thats who I am. I think she might have an issue with something in her face but until I can get her to a *qualified* reptile vet with retic experience I cant say for sure. 
I appreciate all the thought put into this issue with all of our collective research and experience though guys! This will get figured out in time or I will go bald trying! 


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Gio (05-10-2018)

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## jmcrook

> It may just be an individual thing. 
> 
> I have grandson dog of the best, most titled male Presa Canario dog Ive ever owned and his grandson is nothing like he was. Way high maintenance and busy. 
> 
> Every animal has its own personality. 
> 
> I just hope JM can get a handle on the self destructive behaviors. 
> 
> Its no fun watching something you adore ruin itself.


This 1000%! Shes totally fine health wise to the best of mine or anyone elses knowledge. Just kills me to see her with a fat face folded and crumpled into the corner of the doors every night. 


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Gio (05-10-2018)

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## Sauzo

> Shes definitely going into shed right now which of course would be the one variable I didnt anticipate when moving Geralds cage.  I think honestly some of it is food related. Some of it could be an irritation issue with something related to her face. Unfortunately the worthless vet in town is uncomfortable seeing a snake over 4-5feet so Ill have to make an appointment with a vet close to two hours away to rule out that variable. 
> It could be she needs more stimulation in her environment and I may try perches to solve that. But given that Im moving in a few weeks and have a job interview across the country around the same time I have to budget my time and efforts differently for the moment. Currently have her cage on room ambient temps with flexwatt hot spot keeping her at 78-79* and 85-88*. Humidity it pegged at 80% because thank you Mississippi balminess hah.
> My friend that has bred these snakes in the past has kept telling me that sometimes they just push and thats how it is. That theyll heal themselves just fine with food and heat. I can never help but fear for the worst because thats who I am. I think she might have an issue with something in her face but until I can get her to a *qualified* reptile vet with retic experience I cant say for sure. 
> I appreciate all the thought put into this issue with all of our collective research and experience though guys! This will get figured out in time or I will go bald trying! 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well that could be an idea for sure. She might have something bothering her face. I have no sympathy though for a 2 hour drive to the vet lol. The vet i use is about an hour drive into Seattle. There are a lot of closer exotic vets to me but Dr Bennett has come recommended by a few people and she has been taking care Harley, Rosey, Dottie and Allie when i had Allie.

Also like i mentioned, it might be you are doing the same thing i am doing with Caesar. Being so used to a certain size food item working until it doesnt work lol. I have been just blissfully feeding Caesar his jumbo rat until one day i noticed, it really left next to nothing for a lump. Thats why this past Saturday i gave him the 2XL guinea pig which left a lump but he still was cruising around afterwards.

And hopefully your buddy isnt right about 'Some retics just push, plain and simple'. If he's right, may god help you with Phyllis  :Very Happy:

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## jmcrook

> Well that could be an idea for sure. She might have something bothering her face. I have no sympathy though for a 2 hour drive to the vet lol. The vet i use is about an hour drive into Seattle. There are a lot of closer exotic vets to me but Dr Bennett has come recommended by a few people and she has been taking care Harley, Rosey, Dottie and Allie when i had Allie.
> 
> Also like i mentioned, it might be you are doing the same thing i am doing with Caesar. Being so used to a certain size food item working until it doesnt work lol. I have been just blissfully feeding Caesar his jumbo rat until one day i noticed, it really left next to nothing for a lump. Thats why this past Saturday i gave him the 2XL guinea pig which left a lump but he still was cruising around afterwards.
> 
> And hopefully your buddy isnt right about 'Some retics just push, plain and simple'. If he's right, may god help you with Phyllis


I feel like you might be hitting the nail on the head with the comment about prey size. She was eating close to this same size rat last fall and has gained probably 8-10lbs since then. She might just be hungry?
At least you have options within the same state and within an hour drive for vets. The only registered reptile vet near me is in Alabama somewhere around 2 hours away if I remember correctly. Teaching 4 college classes a semester leaves very little time to make 4hr round trips to vets that possibly could cancel your appointment 15 minutes before youre supposed to show up because the doctor is apparently scared of the size of your snake. Which I know isnt an excuse for not visiting a vet, hence the off hand comment a while back about almost thinking to rehome her


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## Sauzo

> I feel like you might be hitting the nail on the head with the comment about prey size. She was eating close to this same size rat last fall and has gained probably 8-10lbs since then. She might just be hungry?
> At least you have options within the same state and within an hour drive for vets. The only registered reptile vet near me is in Alabama somewhere around 2 hours away if I remember correctly. Teaching 4 college classes a semester leaves very little time to make 4hr round trips to vets that possibly could cancel your appointment 15 minutes before you’re supposed to show up because the doctor is apparently scared of the size of your snake. Which I know isn’t an excuse for not visiting a vet, hence the off hand comment a while back about almost thinking to rehome her
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You need a new vet. Knd of funny how an exotic vet is scared to see a large constrictor. When i was about to pull the trigger on a gila monster, i called my vet and she said she would be fine seeing gilas or beaded lizards. She said she doesnt seem that often as she doesnt have many of them as patients. She also likes big constrictors. Her and the staff loved to see Rosey. Guess they dont see many large constrictors as patients. Mostly stuff like geckos, ball pythons, bearded dragons, iguanas, small boas and the like. I told her i got a retic i will be bringing in one day for a check up and they were excited lol.

And maybe Phyllis just needs bigger food. Heck at this point, I'd probably just drink myself into a stupor and call it a day. You definitely are getting a workout with Phyllis. Caesar has been a church mouse the past few days. During the day, sleeping like an angel in his hide and during the night, just stretching out and maybe looking outside here and there.

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## Skyrivers

> You need a new vet. Knd of funny how an exotic vet is scared to see a large constrictor. When i was about to pull the trigger on a gila monster, i called my vet and she said she would be fine seeing gilas or beaded lizards. She said she doesnt seem that often as she doesnt have many of them as patients. She also likes big constrictors. Her and the staff loved to see Rosey. Guess they dont see many large constrictors as patients. Mostly stuff like geckos, ball pythons, bearded dragons, iguanas, small boas and the like. I told her i got a retic i will be bringing in one day for a check up and they were excited lol.
> 
> And maybe Phyllis just needs bigger food. Heck at this point, I'd probably just drink myself into a stupor and call it a day. You definitely are getting a workout with Phyllis. Caesar has been a church mouse the past few days. During the day, sleeping like an angel in his hide and during the night, just stretching out and maybe looking outside here and there.


My exotic vet I use also enjoys seeing Rainbow and Lucy (my RTB). He is also a herp owner himself. He thought was awesome to see a retic with her color and pattern. I don't think he gets to see many of them but he did talk to me about making sure she gets plenty of exercise and handled regularly. He said most die from clogged arteries and fatty body if they don't have an active enclosure to take advantage of. He was so impressed with her personality also. 


Rainbow is going on day 6 from last feeding. She was active yesterday and I was surprised her enclosure was not moved around this morning. Who knows what I will see when I get home. I might feed today or tomorrow if she will wait.  She doesn't really push as much as moves things around.

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## Reinz

My vet enjoys the larger snakes Last time I was in he was telling about how it took 4 people to control a Burm. I could tell that he was really in to it.

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_jmcrook_ (05-10-2018)

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## jmcrook

> And maybe Phyllis just needs bigger food. Heck at this point, I'd probably just drink myself into a stupor and call it a day. You definitely are getting a workout with Phyllis. Caesar has been a church mouse the past few days. During the day, sleeping like an angel in his hide and during the night, just stretching out and maybe looking outside here and there.


Just weighed one of her colossal rats. 419grams. Definitely the lowest end of the quoted weight range. She took her first 450gram rats a full year ago and she only weighed like 6lbs. She could probably take three of these no problem. I really gotta get my hands on some rabbits. Monster Feeders will definitely be my next feeder order 


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## Gio

> Just weighed one of her colossal rats. 419grams. Definitely the lowest end of the quoted weight range. She took her first 450gram rats a full year ago and she only weighed like 6lbs. She could probably take three of these no problem. I really gotta get my hands on some rabbits. Monster Feeders will definitely be my next feeder order 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Monster Feeders looks to still be in business. I went to visit Matt a few years back when I began searching for SDs. I was also considering a cage from him. I believe he was in the middle of a divorce during that time and we lost communication. 

I think his food prices are good and he has variety so I hope things go your way.

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_jmcrook_ (05-10-2018)

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## Sauzo

> Just weighed one of her colossal rats. 419grams. Definitely the lowest end of the quoted weight range. She took her first 450gram rats a full year ago and she only weighed like 6lbs. She could probably take three of these no problem. I really gotta get my hands on some rabbits. Monster Feeders will definitely be my next feeder order 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If you order from them, let me know how you like the quality and packing. If i ever break down and get my mini chest freezer, I'll need to stock up on rabbits for Caesar as i think jumbo rats are getting on the small side and i dont feel like feeding him 2 jumbo rats. Last time i weighed Caesar's jumbo rats, they were about 350ish grams. Those are the biggest the pet shop gets other than guinea pigs and the reptile shop about an hour from me has rabbits now again, so hopefully they have ones small enough for Caesar.

And on a side note, Caesar was extra 'loving' last night. He really wanted the petting and sat there on my arm while i pet him. After about 15 mins, i got tired and went to go sit down and he started coming out of the cage to follow me lol. i got up and went back over and started petting him again and he went back to laying down in the cage next to my arm. I swear, i have never seen a snake like Caesar. You think reptiles are these cold blooded things that dont care but i swear Caesar acts like a dog sometimes haha. Couple days ago though, he was cranky about something and wanted nothing to do with me. Gave me stank eye when i lifted his hide to look for a piss and wandered away when i went to give him pettings. He wants stuff his way, not yours lol.

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Gio (05-12-2018)

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## Skyrivers

I think your Caesar is great. Is great he enjoys attention. 


> If you order from them, let me know how you like the quality and packing. If i ever break down and get my mini chest freezer, I'll need to stock up on rabbits for Caesar as i think jumbo rats are getting on the small side and i dont feel like feeding him 2 jumbo rats. Last time i weighed Caesar's jumbo rats, they were about 350ish grams. Those are the biggest the pet shop gets other than guinea pigs and the reptile shop about an hour from me has rabbits now again, so hopefully they have ones small enough for Caesar.
> 
> And on a side note, Caesar was extra 'loving' last night. He really wanted the petting and sat there on my arm while i pet him. After about 15 mins, i got tired and went to go sit down and he started coming out of the cage to follow me lol. i got up and went back over and started petting him again and he went back to laying down in the cage next to my arm. I swear, i have never seen a snake like Caesar. You think reptiles are these cold blooded things that dont care but i swear Caesar acts like a dog sometimes haha. Couple days ago though, he was cranky about something and wanted nothing to do with me. Gave me stank eye when i lifted his hide to look for a piss and wandered away when i went to give him pettings. He wants stuff his way, not yours lol.


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## Sauzo

> I think your Caesar is great. Is great he enjoys attention. 
> 
> Sent from my N9560 using Tapatalk


Usually in the evening. During the day, if you remove the hide he is in, he will push your hand away and give you stank eye. And if that doesnt work, he wanders off to the other side of the cage.

Last night though before his petting session, i noticed he was pushing bad. I slid open a door and i immediately found out why. He had taken a huge poop in the back corner behind his cool hide. Once i got that cleaned up, i left a door open to air out and gave him his petting session. After the 2 petting sessions, i was able to sit down and watch tv as he was content to just sit with his head on the litter dam for about 2-3 hours until i went to bed and closed up his doors.

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_jmcrook_ (05-10-2018),_Stearns84_ (05-11-2018)

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## Stearns84

> Usually in the evening. During the day, if you remove the hide he is in, he will push your hand away and give you stank eye. And if that doesnt work, he wanders off to the other side of the cage.
> 
> Last night though before his petting session, i noticed he was pushing bad. I slid open a door and i immediately found out why. He had taken a huge poop in the back corner behind his cool hide. Once i got that cleaned up, i left a door open to air out and gave him his petting session. After the 2 petting sessions, i was able to sit down and watch tv as he was content to just sit with his head on the litter dam for about 2-3 hours until i went to bed and closed up his doors.


I can't seem to not fall asleep noe when I watch tv at night and I'm only 34. I can't trust myself leaving a cage open. 

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_jmcrook_ (05-11-2018)

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## Gio

> If you order from them, let me know how you like the quality and packing. If i ever break down and get my mini chest freezer, I'll need to stock up on rabbits for Caesar as i think jumbo rats are getting on the small side and i dont feel like feeding him 2 jumbo rats. Last time i weighed Caesar's jumbo rats, they were about 350ish grams. Those are the biggest the pet shop gets other than guinea pigs and the reptile shop about an hour from me has rabbits now again, so hopefully they have ones small enough for Caesar.
> 
> And on a side note, Caesar was extra 'loving' last night. He really wanted the petting and sat there on my arm while i pet him. After about 15 mins, i got tired and went to go sit down and he started coming out of the cage to follow me lol. i got up and went back over and started petting him again and he went back to laying down in the cage next to my arm. I swear, i have never seen a snake like Caesar. You think reptiles are these cold blooded things that dont care but i swear Caesar acts like a dog sometimes haha. Couple days ago though, he was cranky about something and wanted nothing to do with me. Gave me stank eye when i lifted his hide to look for a piss and wandered away when i went to give him pettings. He wants stuff his way, not yours lol.


Ive been getting this from Wallace finally. Ive been waiting for some owner recognition and Im very happy. Retics seen to be quite tuned in🐍🐍👍🏻😎

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_jmcrook_ (05-12-2018),_Sauzo_ (05-12-2018)

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## Sauzo

> Ive been getting this from Wallace finally. Ive been waiting for some owner recognition and Im very happy. Retics seen to be quite tuned in🐍🐍👍🏻😎


Lol yup. Caesar is usually a petting/attention monster. Sometimes though, he gets in a mood and wants to be left alone lol.

All my snakes got their 'patterns'. Vicky will push at the front of the cage when she poops to let me know. Pat moves to the front perch and will sit there caudal luring to let me know when he wants dinner. Caesar pushes when he drops a deuce and wants it removed. Rosey will pace the front of the cage when she poops. The little boas, i just have to check them as they dont let me know when they do the business lol.

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Gio (05-12-2018),_jmcrook_ (05-12-2018)

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## jmcrook

Caught homegirl changing clothes just now.

Of course she would shed 4days before Im going to leave town for 6days... feed her tomorrow and leave her be and hope for the best? Or make her wait until Wednesday and then hope shes chill while Im gone? Either way shell end up sitting in a dirty cage for at least a couple days. I think shell destroy her face again if I make her wait til Wednesday to eat... ugh 


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_Sauzo_ (05-20-2018)

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## Sauzo

> Caught homegirl changing clothes just now.
> 
> Of course she would shed 4days before Im going to leave town for 6days... feed her tomorrow and leave her be and hope for the best? Or make her wait until Wednesday and then hope shes chill while Im gone? Either way shell end up sitting in a dirty cage for at least a couple days. I think shell destroy her face again if I make her wait til Wednesday to eat... ugh 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'd feed her. I would rather deal with a dirty cage than hamburger face any day.

Also, Phyllis is huge! When Caesar fully stretches out, he the full length of the cage and then a little hangs off each end of the shelf.

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## jmcrook

> I'd feed her. I would rather deal with a dirty cage than hamburger face any day.
> 
> Also, Phyllis is huge! When Caesar fully stretches out, he the full length of the cage and then a little hangs off each end of the shelf.


My dilemma with feeding her tomorrow is that she probably wont poop and piss until after I leave, then sit in a filthy cage for 6 days destroying her face. Or I could wait a little bit, feed her in the next few days and maybe have her be calm for maybe half of the time Im gone? Between a rock and a hard place with that decision... shes being quiet right now but still has a poop waiting in her from her last feed. Probably lets that rip tomorrow or maybe Monday if Im lucky
And yeah, I wasnt kidding when I told yall she got massive lol! Gotta be a solid 9.5-10 and big around as my forearm. 


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## Sauzo

Lol, i thought Caesar was big for a SD cross. Phyllis is like the Godzilla of super dwarves lol. It's almost looking like 8 foot cage time is getting inevitable lol.

And yeah thats a tough call. I would feed the last minute before you leave and pray lol.

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_jmcrook_ (05-20-2018)

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## jmcrook

> Lol, i thought Caesar was big for a SD cross. Phyllis is like the Godzilla of super dwarves lol. It's almost looking like 8 foot cage time is getting inevitable lol.
> 
> And yeah thats a tough call. I would feed the last minute before you leave and pray lol.


Ill see how she acts over the next day or so and make the call from there. I might give her two colossal rats when I do feed as well. Honestly shed be fine in her 6 cage for life but I want to give her as much space as I can when I can. Between the cage, heat panel, and freight shipping itll be close to $1k on a T65 and Id like to go 2 tall if possible which would make it even more. Also a modular cage would be a HUGE plus. Just gotta wait until I know if Im staying in MS for the next year or moving to OR this summer. Cross your fingers that my interview/teaching demo goes well next Friday! 


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## Sauzo

Good luck man and yeah if you can get another T25 and have Ali make some custom sides like i talked about earlier to bolt the 2 cages together and then Lexel the seam, it would be awesome. I am going to ask Ali about it when i call her next month after i talk to Bob about drop shipping a RHP to them for Pat's cage. If they can do a custom 12 foot stand or maybe just put 2 6 foot stands together and lay down a sheet of 1 inch plywood on top, that would probably work great. Plus imagine a double sliding door 12 foot cage. Would be crazy. 

I personally am fine with 18 inch height. If i was keeping something like a 16 or 18 foot mainland, i would want 2 foot height but for something like Caesar who i'm hoping tops out under 10 feet, the height is fine.

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_jmcrook_ (05-20-2018)

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## jmcrook

My thoughts are more along these lines:
Two T13s (48x30x18) bolted together with a hole through the middle. Basically like Gios cage. I dont want the deal with the center post on two cage fronts together though, four openings to the same cage... this is why Im being picky about this one. Because when/if I get a bigger cage, its gotta be her last cage. I cant go over 8 and thats gotta be modular because 8 is pretty unwieldy when youre a 54 dude. I just really like the clean appearance of everything being perfectly CNC cut and rounded and such. Im sure they could make whatever I wanted really, it would just cost $2k and take a year and a half to get to me with my luck lol


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_Sauzo_ (05-20-2018)

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## Sauzo

> My thoughts are more along these lines:
> Two T13s (48x30x18) bolted together with a hole through the middle. Basically like Gios cage. I dont want the deal with the center post on two cage fronts together though, four openings to the same cage... this is why Im being picky about this one. Because when/if I get a bigger cage, its gotta be her last cage. I cant go over 8 and thats gotta be modular because 8 is pretty unwieldy when youre a 54 dude. I just really like the clean appearance of everything being perfectly CNC cut and rounded and such. Im sure they could make whatever I wanted really, it would just cost $2k and take a year and a half to get to me with my luck lol
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Lol true. It took forever and a day to get your T25.

And yeah, 2 pillars on one cage would be a lot but also, it would give it good support, if we are talking a 12 foot cage lol. The T65 just has one pillar though. When i talked to Ali, she said the 8 footers are probably a 2 person job. The 6 footers she said can probably be one personed. I stacked 3 of my T25s by myself. Wasnt bad except lifting the 3rd one up high enough to clear the second cage haha. It was so awkward having an arm in each side holding the roof of the cage and then try and basically dead lift it almost 4 feet up and then not let it slide across the second cage so i didnt break the connections on the flexwatt. 

But me personally, if Caesar outgrows his T25 which i know he wouldnt but like you said, i like to give my snakes room to stretch out if they desire, then I'll just got for a T65 as i too want the nice clean rounded corners and nice finish that AP does. That was the first thing i noticed about AP when i first got my cages. Then i noticed how strong they were. There is no flex or give in them. After that i was sold.

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## Stearns84

Man you guys have me thinking, go with an 8' cage or just two t10s side by side? I like the idea of ease of moving it. The 4 doors might look weird but would help alot when it comes to feeding as Gene goes crazy.

Hmm 

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_jmcrook_ (05-20-2018)

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## jmcrook

> Man you guys have me thinking, go with an 8' cage or just two t10s side by side? I like the idea of ease of moving it. The 4 doors might look weird but would help alot when it comes to feeding as Gene goes crazy.
> 
> Hmm 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Same thoughts here. Four doors=more shields during feeding. But also means less open space for cleaning and removing critters. Either way, I need an 8 cage that can be broken in half for ease of moving. I just cant manage a full 8 cage solo. I wonder if AP could do two 4 cages without a center post, but maybe a brace in the ceiling? That might make RHP placement tough though... does anyone know if the 8 cages are only reinforced in the center of the cage or in both sides too? Alternatively I bet they could do two swinging doors, one each on two T13s that bolt together. I just wish they had a swing down option instead of swinging out


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## Sauzo

> Same thoughts here. Four doors=more shields during feeding. But also means less open space for cleaning and removing critters. Either way, I need an 8 cage that can be broken in half for ease of moving. I just cant manage a full 8 cage solo. I wonder if AP could do two 4 cages without a center post, but maybe a brace in the ceiling? That might make RHP placement tough though... does anyone know if the 8 cages are only reinforced in the center of the cage or in both sides too? Alternatively I bet they could do two swinging doors, one each on two T13s that bolt together. I just wish they had a swing down option instead of swinging out
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You could probably have them set the doors up to drop down if you want. Not that hard. They would just have to hinge it at the bottom instead of the side. Of course you would be talking acrylic doors as you cant make a swing open glass door.

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_jmcrook_ (05-20-2018)

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## jmcrook

Gave Phyllis free roam in the snake room for the better part of the day and gave her a 30min cruise outside before sunset and shes currently sawing logs in her cool side hide. Hoping I can get her to be calm most of the night and tomorrow so I can feed right before I leave and hope for another 6 days free from terror. She was looking pretty good today in the yard 



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_BR8080_ (05-25-2018),C.Marie (05-30-2018),_EL-Ziggy_ (05-22-2018),Gio (05-22-2018),_Sauzo_ (05-22-2018),_Stearns84_ (05-22-2018)

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## Sauzo

She does look good.

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_jmcrook_ (05-22-2018)

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## Skyrivers

Both of your retics are nice looking. She looks so happy.

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## Gio

> Gave Phyllis free roam in the snake room for the better part of the day and gave her a 30min cruise outside before sunset and shes currently sawing logs in her cool side hide. Hoping I can get her to be calm most of the night and tomorrow so I can feed right before I leave and hope for another 6 days free from terror. She was looking pretty good today in the yard 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


OMG Dude!!!

That's phenomenal !!!

Perfect size and pattern.

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_jmcrook_ (05-22-2018)

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## jmcrook

> OMG Dude!!!
> 
> That's phenomenal !!!
> 
> Perfect size and pattern.


Thanks brother! Shes quite the looker. 
And of course she had to bust up her face last night... right before I leave for 6days starting tomorrow. She just ate two colossal rats and will hopefully be quiet for the better part of the time Im gone. Shes back on paper so she doesnt get anything in her busted lip. Put a layer of puppy training pads over the paper so shes not wallowing in piss soaked paper when she opens the floodgates in 3-4-5 days. Hopefully that helps with absorbing some waste. Cross your fingers with me that she keeps it together til Monday!


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Gio (05-30-2018),_Stearns84_ (05-23-2018)

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## Stearns84

> Thanks brother! Shes quite the looker. 
> And of course she had to bust up her face last night... right before I leave for 6days starting tomorrow. She just ate two colossal rats and will hopefully be quiet for the better part of the time Im gone. Shes back on paper so she doesnt get anything in her busted lip. Put a layer of puppy training pads over the paper so shes not wallowing in piss soaked paper when she opens the floodgates in 3-4-5 days. Hopefully that helps with absorbing some waste. Cross your fingers with me that she keeps it together til Monday!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Any update on how she did?

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## Skyrivers

She looks great! I love some retics for sure.

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## Sauzo

> Any update on how she did?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


He came home and the cage was demolished...the house was a wreck, and there was a giant turd on the pillow...Phyllis was not happy!!  :Razz:

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_jmcrook_ (05-30-2018),_Stearns84_ (05-30-2018)

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## Stearns84

That would be amazing. Locks were changed, Phyllis runs the place. Officially a squatter for 6 - 9 months.


> He came home and the cage was demolished...the house was a wreck, and there was a giant turd on the pillow...Phyllis was not happy!!


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_jmcrook_ (05-30-2018),_Sauzo_ (05-30-2018)

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## Sauzo

> That would be amazing. Locks were changed, Phyllis runs the place. Officially a squatter for 6 - 9 months.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Lol would be epic. Phyllis the squatter lol.

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_jmcrook_ (05-30-2018),_Stearns84_ (05-30-2018)

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## Stearns84

> Lol would be epic. Phyllis the squatter lol.


Jacob just smashes his face against the windows trying to see what Phyllis is doing while standing outside in the sun. 

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_jmcrook_ (05-30-2018),_Sauzo_ (05-30-2018)

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## 67temp

> That would be amazing. Locks were changed, Phyllis runs the place. Officially a squatter for 6 - 9 months.


She got his CC#. Had a freezer chest delivered and placed an order of rabbits online to fill the freezer.

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_jmcrook_ (05-30-2018),_Sauzo_ (05-30-2018),_Stearns84_ (05-30-2018)

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## Stearns84

Drank his beer.


> She got his CC#. Had a freezer chest delivered and placed an order of rabbits online to fill the freezer.


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_jmcrook_ (05-30-2018),_Sauzo_ (05-30-2018)

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## jmcrook

Lmao! She did alright but I came home to the stinkiest poop and piss filled cage ever. Stunk up the whole room. And FYI, two colossal rats last her just as long as one colossal rat. Shes a freak. Seems shes gotta be on a 6 days schedule. Gerald had a bit of push face though and was only on day ten after feeding. Deep cleaned them both and theyre on paper for the moment because Im moving today and that just makes things easier. Might actually move them to the new apt right now before it gets real hot outside and keep them in their holding tubs until I can get the cages over there in the moving truck. the joys of owning solar powered critters...


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## Sauzo

Man, cant say i miss the pushing. Caesar has been fairly good. Kind of shoves his face into the center brace to test it once in a while at night but thats it. He just windshield wipes both doors all over and climbs all over the shelf and hides until i open a door and give him some petting. That usually gets him to quiet down. 

Not sure why Phyllis is so psycho but i think for Caesar, it was him wanting to breed. And the rabbit didnt last as long as i thought either. By about day 4, he was out from behind his warm side hide and looking for attention at night like usual lol.

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C.Marie (05-30-2018),_jmcrook_ (05-30-2018)

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## zina10

Retics seem to be such intelligent snakes (for a snake). And very hungry as well. 

I wonder if anyone has ever built a custom enclosure that would give those snakes a sort of a "play ground" ? 

I'm envisioning 6 feet wide cages and 4 of those stacked on top of one another. Each (but the very top one) has a round hole cut into the ceiling, big enough for the snake to fit through comfortably . For example, bottom cage would have the hole in the ceiling on the left side. Next cage would have the hole in the ceiling on the right side. Then left again. The snake could move up and down throughout all of those cages.

The Radiant heat panel could be mounted behind the hole, to give the snake a warm side of each cage on the side with the solid floor. Water could be in the bottom cage. 

Of course that leaves the matter of the substrate. If substrate was desired, each hole could have sort of a "lip/dam" around it. The snake can easily crawl over that, but the substrate, liquid, poop or whatever else the snake pushes around should be kept from falling through the hole. One could also add more stuff, like shelves or other obstacles. 

While that wouldn't keep the snake from getting hungry or wanting out, it might keep them busy looking for food on the different levels and across many obstacles, possibly tiring out their bodies and minds to a degree. 

I know, that would be a labor of love and take up a huge amount of space for one snake, but I wonder if something like that would make/keep a retic happy !  :Wink:

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_jmcrook_ (05-30-2018)

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## zina10

I have put some thought into this "pushing" issue with Retics off and on throughout the years, even though I don't own a Retic nor plan to. (just don't have the space for one..)

From what I've researched, this species of snake is more intelligent and "aware". Which leads me to believe, their mind is more active as well. I have also read that in the wild, they tend to travel quite long distances. 

Like a Ball Python has the innate need to HIDE, prehaps a Retic has the innate need to move/travel ? Perhaps being full of food makes them sluggish and rest, but once digestion is mostly done, they feel the need to get moving again? Could it be that its not just hunger or the need for food that makes them push, but rather that digestion and a full belly stops them from pushing, but the built in instinct to get moving again causes them to push as soon as most of the digestion is done?

The behavior reminds me of some animals I have observed in a zoo. They were the kind of animals that normally travel long distances throughout the day and maintain quite a large area as their habitat. Those animals would pace back and forth, sometimes almost in place, causing themselves damage in the process. Its almost as if they couldn't help doing it. I've also observed that behavior in horses where it is called "weaving". Usually in horses that are closed up in small spaces. They cause themselves a lot of harm in their legs and joints and sometimes rub their heads in the process. Its almost neurological and once they start this behavior it is next to impossible to get them to stop.

I wonder if Retics being more of a intelligent species do actually need more stimulus then snakes usually do ?

I could be way off, of course, since I do not even own one, nor am I an expert in large snakes. I've just often wondered about them and I admire them..

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Zincubus (05-30-2018)

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## Stearns84

> Lmao! She did alright but I came home to the stinkiest poop and piss filled cage ever. Stunk up the whole room. And FYI, two colossal rats last her just as long as one colossal rat. Shes a freak. Seems shes gotta be on a 6 days schedule. Gerald had a bit of push face though and was only on day ten after feeding. Deep cleaned them both and theyre on paper for the moment because Im moving today and that just makes things easier. Might actually move them to the new apt right now before it gets real hot outside and keep them in their holding tubs until I can get the cages over there in the moving truck. the joys of owning solar powered critters...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


How did the move go? 

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## jmcrook

> How did the move go? 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Finishing up the bulk of it right now. It torrentially downpoured about 30 minutes into loading the truck. Thankfully this move did not involve my art studio, which is like moving an entire apartment on its own.
Got everyone moved this morning and the temps were perfect, but I was only making an 8-10 min drive. Gotta go set up the cages, everyones in tubs or crammed in a t8(Phyllis) and Gerald peed all over the whole tub including his water bowl and pillow case he rode in. Hes kind of annoying sometimes/a lot of the time hahah. Keeping everyone on paper for a bit just because its easier when shifting everything around the apartment. Ill post pics of the new snake room soon.


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Gio (06-03-2018),_richardhind1972_ (06-01-2018),_Sauzo_ (05-30-2018),_Stearns84_ (05-30-2018)

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## jmcrook

Nice hat, Phyllis...



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Gio (06-03-2018),_richardhind1972_ (06-01-2018),_Sauzo_ (06-01-2018)

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## Sauzo

Haha, its so much fun to try and remove the hide when they do that and get it wedged under one of the supports for the shelf. I end up having to slide Caesar and the hide forward which ends with a serious case of stink eye.

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_jmcrook_ (06-01-2018)

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## Skyrivers

> Haha, its so much fun to try and remove the hide when they do that and get it wedged under one of the supports for the shelf. I end up having to slide Caesar and the hide forward which ends with a serious case of stink eye.


I think Rainbow plays with her hide more than she uses it to hide. The rotates it, flips it, and moves it around like a turtle. The only time she uses it to hide is right after a big meal. She eat 2 XL rats last night and was in a nice food coma this morning. Love the huge personalities these guys have.

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## Prognathodon

> Of course that leaves the matter of the substrate. If substrate was desired, each hole could have sort of a "lip/dam" around it. The snake can easily crawl over that, but the substrate, liquid, poop or whatever else the snake pushes around should be kept from falling through the hole. One could also add more stuff, like shelves or other obstacles.


Ive thought about something like this (just as a thought experiment), but for smaller snakes, and saw a suggestion in a corn snake book - PVC pipe couplers, which are are a male-male setup, smooth exterior, and have either a smooth interior or a ridge in the middle. If you want to block off access, you just need a capped short piece of pipe and stick it in the coupler. IIRC you can get couplers up to 4 diameter at home improvement stores. If that isnt big enough for a retic, Id probably engage my Google-Fu for something similar. 


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_zina10_ (06-01-2018)

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## zina10

> Ive thought about something like this (just as a thought experiment), but for smaller snakes, and saw a suggestion in a corn snake book - PVC pipe couplers, which are are a male-male setup, smooth exterior, and have either a smooth interior or a ridge in the middle. If you want to block off access, you just need a capped short piece of pipe and stick it in the coupler. IIRC you can get couplers up to 4 diameter at home improvement stores. If that isnt big enough for a retic, Id probably engage my Google-Fu for something similar. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


Exactly! That is what I thought. Gluing the pipe in there would keep the cages aligned perfectly and it would give you the lip that is needed. 

Plus they can easily be smoothed out. I didn't even think about the end piece to lock the snake into a level. That would be great for cleaning and maintenance 

Sure would take up a huge space but may keep a busy Retic....busy. Lol


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## jmcrook

Moments before I narrowly avoided a tsunami of piss and deuce on the couch. Just redirected her tail to the floor. Thankfully it was in the living room, the snake room is carpeted.



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_BR8080_ (06-04-2018),Gio (06-03-2018),_Sauzo_ (06-03-2018),_Stearns84_ (06-03-2018)

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## Sauzo

> Moments before I narrowly avoided a tsunami of piss and deuce on the couch. Just redirected her tail to the floor. Thankfully it was in the living room, the snake room is carpeted.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No christening retic tsunami pics?? lol.

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_jmcrook_ (06-03-2018),_Stearns84_ (06-03-2018)

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## Gio

> Moments before I narrowly avoided a tsunami of piss and deuce on the couch. Just redirected her tail to the floor. Thankfully it was in the living room, the snake room is carpeted.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Damn, 
What a nice looking snake!

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_jmcrook_ (06-03-2018)

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## jmcrook

> No christening retic tsunami pics?? lol.


Dude, it was foul hahah! Had to clean that up post haste! 5 days on the dot for her standard elimination cycle... probably have to feed tomorrow or look at a smashed retic face 


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_Sauzo_ (06-03-2018)

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## Sauzo

Hahaha. Yeah I'm thawing a huge guinea pig for Caesar right now. Unfortunately the place is out of rabbits right now. Think my next investment is the chest freezer once i get Pat's cage set up.

His 3-4XL guinea pig cost me $19......i NEED that chest freezer lol. I am starting to feel the pain in the price.

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C.Marie (06-07-2018)

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## jmcrook

> His 3-4XL guinea pig cost me $19......i NEED that chest freezer lol. I am starting to feel the pain in the price.


$19?!?!? 
Rodent Pro isnt the best of the online f/t options imo but, dude, their 4xl guinea pigs are like $5. It would be worth it just to order like 6 from them at a time and nothing else  compared to $19 a pop! And that would still be like a 50% decrease in cost 
Ive been telling you for like a year hahah... could have saved enough to buy six more snakes and raise them all for two years with the savings youd have accumulated lol



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## Sauzo

> $19?!?!? 
> Rodent Pro isn’t the best of the online f/t options imo but, dude, their 4xl guinea pigs are like $5. It would be worth it just to order like 6 from them at a time and nothing else  compared to $19 a pop! And that would still be like a 50% decrease in cost 
> I’ve been telling you for like a year hahah... could have saved enough to buy six more snakes and raise them all for two years with the savings you’d have accumulated lol
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'd swear at you but i dont want an infraction haha. I know i need a chest freezer. Didnt really dawn on me when Caesar tiny and eating little food. Even Rosey and Vicky only eat large rats so their food is only like $9-10 but with Caesar's fat behind, he packs it in like a guy in a dress shoplifting at the grocery store. I still probably have to wait 2 months as i still got to pay off Pat's cage, the RHP, the perch holders and water bowl holders from S3D, the plants and the manzanita perches. But trust me, after todays cost, a small chest freezer is top on the list. Another GTP, BHP, SD retic or whatever else is going to be put on the back burner lol. Plus i have been eyeballing this REALLY nice Smith & Wesson Model 629 Performance Center snubnose 44 magnum. So that is on my list now too lol.

And Rodent Pro is out of the question for me. Heard too many bad stories about them. I'm sure they are fine now but i dont want to risk it. I plan to only use either Perfect Prey, Monster Feeders, Layne Labs or Big Cheese. Or possibly Glacier Rodents as they are local here.

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C.Marie (06-07-2018)

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## jmcrook

> I'd swear at you but i dont want an infraction haha. I know i need a chest freezer. Didnt really dawn on me when Caesar tiny and eating little food. Even Rosey and Vicky only eat large rats so their food is only like $9-10 but with Caesar's fat behind, he packs it in like a guy in a dress shoplifting at the grocery store. I still probably have to wait 2 months as i still got to pay off Pat's cage, the RHP, the perch holders and water bowl holders from S3D, the plants and the manzanita perches. But trust me, after todays cost, a small chest freezer is top on the list. Another GTP, BHP, SD retic or whatever else is going to be put on the back burner lol. Plus i have been eyeballing this REALLY nice Smith & Wesson Model 629 Performance Center snubnose 44 magnum. So that is on my list now too lol.
> 
> And Rodent Pro is out of the question for me. Heard too many bad stories about them. I'm sure they are fine now but i dont want to risk it. I plan to only use either Perfect Prey, Monster Feeders, Layne Labs or Big Cheese. Or possibly Glacier Rodents as they are local here.


Lol I was just giving you a hard time buddy. But for real, once you get a freezer and order online it will change your world. Hell, even for me it would be worth it to order a single bag of 20 small rats at a time for Geoffrey as theyre $5 locally. Cheaper to order a single bag and pay $30 shipping than to buy the same amount at the pet shop here


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_Reinz_ (06-03-2018),_Sauzo_ (06-03-2018)

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## Sauzo

> Lol I was just giving you a hard time buddy. But for real, once you get a freezer and order online it will change your world. Hell, even for me it would be worth it to order a single bag of 20 small rats at a time for Geoffrey as theyre $5 locally. Cheaper to order a single bag and pay $30 shipping than to buy the same amount at the pet shop here
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Lol i know. Was kidding about the swearing part. Funny part is even the guy at the pet shop told me i should buy a chest freezer haha. Oh if i had one, i would have a lot to order. Small rats, weaned rats, adult mice, large fuzzy mice, large rats, small rabbits, 4XL guinea pigs, jumbo rats, quails. Hopefully in a couple months after i get all the stuff for Pat's cage and get everything paid off, I'll be getting that chest freezer.

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_jmcrook_ (06-03-2018)

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## Skyrivers

Already made himself at home! Love how wonderful he is and so easily adjusted to a new home. 




> Moments before I narrowly avoided a tsunami of piss and deuce on the couch. Just redirected her tail to the floor. Thankfully it was in the living room, the snake room is carpeted.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## jmcrook

> Already made himself at home! Love how wonderful he is and so easily adjusted to a new home.


She... her name is Phyllis 


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## Skyrivers

My apologies

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## Gio

> She... her name is Phyllis 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Gerald is his male SD.

He's got two of these SD critters  :Smile:

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_jmcrook_ (06-04-2018)

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## jmcrook

Four days after feeding and already pooped. Usually she at least makes it to day 5. I swear, keeping two retics is like taking care of a dozen of any other snake species 


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_Sauzo_ (06-07-2018)

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## Gio

> Four days after feeding and already pooped. Usually she at least makes it to day 5. I swear, keeping two retics is like taking care of a dozen of any other snake species 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Dude,

That sucks. I just don't have those issues. I may get a little more waste, but not a lot. 

Wallace can be a bit pitchy in the cage, but he's a pretty good captive I must say.

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## Sauzo

> Four days after feeding and already pooped. Usually she at least makes it to day 5. I swear, keeping two retics is like taking care of a dozen of any other snake species 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Lol, Caesar pooped out the huge guinea pig i gave him on friday, last night. He went 5 days on that monster food. But my god, the size of turd i found last night rivels mine lol. Picking it up with a paper towel was like picking up a medium rats haha. And Caesar usually makes it to about day 4-5 before a poop as well. Pat is the same way. In one end and out the other in about 4 days. I think it's just pythons except for BPs lol.

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C.Marie (06-07-2018)

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## jmcrook

Installed perches for queen push face today. So far she seems to enjoy them. Might reinstall them an inch lower at some point when I go back to using the RHP in colder months but for now it seems to be keeping her distracted from pushing hopefully. She was going at it pretty forcefully earlier 




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_Dxw425_ (06-08-2018)

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## Gio

> Installed perches for queen push face today. So far she seems to enjoy them. Might reinstall them an inch lower at some point when I go back to using the RHP in colder months but for now it seems to be keeping her distracted from pushing hopefully. She was going at it pretty forcefully earlier 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


LOVE IT!!!

Well done!

I think you are on the right track.

I know for a fact these retics, young and old are a lot more arboreal than they are said to be by some folks.

She looks rather pleased there JM!

Display snake city! 

I'm entertained just by looking at that!

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_jmcrook_ (06-07-2018)

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## jmcrook

> LOVE IT!!!
> 
> Well done!
> 
> I think you are on the right track.
> 
> I know for a fact these retics, young and old are a lot more arboreal than they are said to be by some folks.
> 
> She looks rather pleased there JM!
> ...


Thanks brother! Right after this she went right back to pushing at the doors though... 🤬🤬🤬
She played on them for a good 30 minutes at least. I emailed Ed at constrictors nw to ask about a cage but havent gotten a response. How quick is he to respond? Also emailed AP about a similar design. Basically want the height and width of your cage at 8 long, also modular. Whoever quotes me the better deal gets this cage order haha. Kinda want AP just so everything matches but it depends on how close they can design/cut it  to my specifications. 
Either way I may go with swinging doors instead of sliding. Curious to see if eliminating the air gap between the sliding doors for Phyllis changes where or how she pushes. Since the acrylic doors with fit flush inside a recessed cage front my theory is that she would at lest push elsewhere? I think she pushes on the right side of the car post currently is because she can get the best face wrecking leverage from that spot 


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## jmcrook

Jeez, auto correct did a bang up job on that last post... 
*would fit flush *center post 


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## AbsoluteApril

> I emailed Ed at constrictors nw to ask about a cage but havent gotten a response. How quick is he to respond? Also emailed AP about a similar design.


I thought Ed closed his cage store and doesn't do it any longer?

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## Dxw425

Man she's so cool and those perches look awesome!! Are they just dowels on some kind of bracket or closet hardware? I would really like to do something similar

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## jmcrook

> I thought Ed closed his cage store and doesn't do it any longer?


Thats what i thought too, but Gio got a cage from him not that long ago? Maybe because Gio is an established customer. 🤷:cens0r:♂️



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## Sauzo

I think Ed is moving, that is why he closed up cage shop for right now. Or at least that is what i heard.

He also was selling off a bunch of his used cages to cut down on stuff to move...or again, so i heard.

And looks good with the perches. Phyllis doesnt use her shelf? I know Caesar loves his shelf and spends a good amount of time curled up on it.

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_AbsoluteApril_ (06-08-2018)

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## jmcrook

> Man she's so cool and those perches look awesome!! Are they just dowels on some kind of bracket or closet hardware? I would really like to do something similar


Thank you!
The set up is 90* corner brackets and tree stakes. Was going to use fence posts but the were a bit unwieldy for the amount of space in the cage with the shelf included. The center of both perches are 5 apart so she can climb between and over them at the same time if wanted. ~3.5 maybe between the closest points of the posts 


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_Dxw425_ (06-08-2018)

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## Sauzo

> Thanks brother! Right after this she went right back to pushing at the doors though... 🤬🤬🤬
> She played on them for a good 30 minutes at least. I emailed Ed at constrictors nw to ask about a cage but havent gotten a response. How quick is he to respond? Also emailed AP about a similar design. Basically want the height and width of your cage at 8 long, also modular. Whoever quotes me the better deal gets this cage order haha. Kinda want AP just so everything matches but it depends on how close they can design/cut it  to my specifications. 
> Either way I may go with swinging doors instead of sliding. Curious to see if eliminating the air gap between the sliding doors for Phyllis changes where or how she pushes. Since the acrylic doors with fit flush inside a recessed cage front my theory is that she would at lest push elsewhere? I think she pushes on the right side of the car post currently is because she can get the best face wrecking leverage from that spot 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Remember, swing doors cant be done in glass so you would have to get lexan or acrylic. I originally had Pat's T5 set up as a single swing door but i called Ali and changed it to sliding glass. I really hate acrylic doors after my Proline cage. Rosey struck the door once and she must have gotten a tooth or something on it and it put a nice scratch line about 3 inches down the right side.

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## jmcrook

> Remember, swing doors cant be done in glass so you would have to get lexan or acrylic. I originally had Pat's T5 set up as a single swing door but i called Ali and changed it to sliding glass. I really hate acrylic doors after my Proline cage. Rosey struck the door once and she must have gotten a tooth or something on it and it put a nice scratch line about 3 inches down the right side.


Oh I know... just not sure if a modular cage in two 4 sections would be easily done with sliding doors, unless it was two doors on both 4x halves. Ideally I want two four foot cages with a singe door on either side bolted together haha


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## Sauzo

> Oh I know... just not sure if a modular cage in two 4 sections would be easily done with sliding doors, unless it was two doors on both 4x halves. Ideally I want two four foot cages with a singe door on either side bolted together haha
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I hear ya. But remember, you are talking 4 feet on each side. When i talked to Ali about the T5 with a single swing door and how they keep the roof from sagging while using a single swing door, she told me Mark actually builds the perimeter of the door bigger. So instead of having the same size opening as the sliding glass doors, it will have a smaller opening as the borders need to be thicker.

Also if you were wondering about replacing a scratched acrylic door, i talked to Ali about that too. She said, you can knock the pins out of the hinges and they send a new acrylic door with half the hinges bolted to the acrylic. So you just line both halves from the front frame to the door and push the pins back in.

I bug Ali a lot about stuff lol. I also talked to her about bolting cages together and ideas there but thats another story. My phone bill is a expensive whenever i talk to Ali at AP hahaha.

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_jmcrook_ (06-08-2018)

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## jmcrook

> I hear ya. But remember, you are talking 4 feet on each side. When i talked to Ali about the T5 with a single swing door and how they keep the roof from sagging while using a single swing door, she told me Mark actually builds the perimeter of the door bigger. So instead of having the same size opening as the sliding glass doors, it will have a smaller opening as the borders need to be thicker.
> 
> Also if you were wondering about replacing a scratched acrylic door, i talked to Ali about that too. She said, you can knock the pins out of the hinges and they send a new acrylic door with half the hinges bolted to the acrylic. So you just line both halves from the front frame to the door and push the pins back in.
> 
> I bug Ali a lot about stuff lol. I also talked to her about bolting cages together and ideas there but thats another story. My phone bill is a expensive whenever i talk to Ali at AP hahaha.


I dont think Id mind a smaller opening as long as that meant I would only have one post between the doors as opposed to the three post total that would result from bolting two T13s together ya know? 


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## Sauzo

> I dont think Id mind a smaller opening as long as that meant I would only have one post between the doors as opposed to the three post total that would result from bolting two T13s together ya know? 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah. Hopefully they can do a single swing door on a 4 foot cage but you'll find out as well as all of us im guessing  :Smile:

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_jmcrook_ (06-08-2018)

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## Skyrivers

> Installed perches for queen push face today. So far she seems to enjoy them. Might reinstall them an inch lower at some point when I go back to using the RHP in colder months but for now it seems to be keeping her distracted from pushing hopefully. She was going at it pretty forcefully earlier 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ooooo.... Me likes! Just need one twice that size for Rainbow now. Looks great. Love the perch also. Looks like she does as well.

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## Gio

Hey. I had no idea about Ed. I got my cage over a year ago but waited to set up

Dont worry about plexiglass windows. They are great and mine look brand new. One cage is already 5 years old. 

Totally bummed she is pushing again.

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## AbsoluteApril

> I think Ed is moving, that is why he closed up cage shop for right now. Or at least that is what i heard.
> 
> He also was selling off a bunch of his used cages to cut down on stuff to move...or again, so i heard.


Ahh okay, thanks! He's been so absent from his forum and then when I saw the 'cage shop closed' a few weeks back I figured he was going to just focus on his breedings instead. Thanks for the info! Wish I had known about his selling off a bunch of used caging.

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## AbsoluteApril

> Thanks brother! Right after this she went right back to pushing at the doors though...


I showed the pics last night to my bf because the cage looks great with her up on the perch and I was explaining why and his comment was 'that's not going to stop the pushing' and then I saw your comment quoted above and was sad. His advice, which I assume based on the photos you've shared, I think you already do, was to 'take her out more'. I asked about the air gap thing and he also doesn't think that will really matter. I'm sorry I don't have any better ideas. I wanted to share his thoughts since he's much more familiar with tics than I am.

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_jmcrook_ (06-08-2018)

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## jmcrook

> Totally bummed she is pushing again.


She never actually stopped. Ive just gotten lucky and made it to 5-6days before she goes bonkers recently 


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## jmcrook

> I showed the pics last night to my bf because the cage looks great with her up on the perch and I was explaining why and his comment was 'that's not going to stop the pushing' and then I saw your comment quoted above and was sad. His advice, which I assume based on the photos you've shared, I think you already do, was to 'take her out more'. I asked about the air gap thing and he also doesn't think that will really matter. I'm sorry I don't have any better ideas. I wanted to share his thoughts since he's much more familiar with tics than I am.


Thanks April. She did immediately crawl in her hide and go to sleep after I had her out for an hour or so last night. Let her cruise the whole apartment. I guess she just needs to have at least an hour of free time a day to (hopefully) get her to chill out


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## jmcrook

> I think Ed is moving, that is why he closed up cage shop for right now. Or at least that is what i heard.
> 
> He also was selling off a bunch of his used cages to cut down on stuff to move...or again, so i heard.
> 
> And looks good with the perches. Phyllis doesnt use her shelf? I know Caesar loves his shelf and spends a good amount of time curled up on it.


She doesnt use the shelf too often but its still in there. She barely fits on he shelf anymore 


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## Gio

> She doesnt use the shelf too often but its still in there. She barely fits on he shelf anymore 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thats one big SD.  Female I know but even still the girth is like a boa. 

You may need to build a nice indoor climbing tree for her. Let her out and go crazy for a few hours. Handle her a lot and wear her down. 

Even still the perches look great in there. Much better than just a shelf.

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## Sauzo

You know man, with all the pushing she does, it almost seems like there is something wrong with the set up like incorrect temps or humidity etc. I know you got it all set up right but you know how when a snake isnt happy, they try and get out. Dottie did it when i used cypress on her. The boas love it but Dottie hates cypress. She was out pushing all over the front of the cage. The day i switched her back to a coco husk(in this case Reptile Prime), she was quiet and went back to sleep in her hide. Caesar and Rosey are the same way with humidity. When i put fresh cypress in and it spikes really high with condensation on the glass, both Rosey and Caesar will push like crazy. Once i open a door and let them sit there with their heads on the litter dams, they quiet right down and after about an hour, they usually curl up by the open door and go to sleep or go into a hide and sleep. So i'm wondering if maybe something like a build up of heat or humidity might be causing her to go crazy and once you open the door and let her out, she cools down or dries out a little and is happy again. Just grasping at straws as like i said, Caesar and Rosey both do that.

For example, this morning when i got up, Caesar was pushing like crazy and the cage had condensation all over the glass. I opened the door and after caesar sat on the litter dam for awhile, he ended up going to sleep like this.....



And Rosey did the same thing....

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_jmcrook_ (06-08-2018)

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## jmcrook

> You know man, with all the pushing she does, it almost seems like there is something wrong with the set up like incorrect temps or humidity etc. I know you got it all set up right but you know how when a snake isnt happy, they try and get out. Dottie did it when i used cypress on her. The boas love it but Dottie hates cypress. She was out pushing all over the front of the cage. The day i switched her back to a coco husk(in this case Reptile Prime), she was quiet and went back to sleep in her hide. Caesar and Rosey are the same way with humidity. When i put fresh cypress in and it spikes really high with condensation on the glass, both Rosey and Caesar will push like crazy. Once i open a door and let them sit there with their heads on the litter dams, they quiet right down and after about an hour, they usually curl up by the open door and go to sleep or go into a hide and sleep. So i'm wondering if maybe something like a build up of heat or humidity might be causing her to go crazy and once you open the door and let her out, she cools down or dries out a little and is happy again. Just grasping at straws as like i said, Caesar and Rosey both do that.
> 
> For example, this morning when i got up, Caesar was pushing like crazy and the cage had condensation all over the glass. I opened the door and after caesar sat on the litter dam for awhile, he ended up going to sleep like this.....
> 
> 
> 
> And Rosey did the same thing....


Yeah Ive got no idea at this point. The ambient temp is a tad warmer but it still only tops out at 79-80* air temps with the apt set at 73-75. Id like it to get down to 75 but Id have to crank the AC in the apt down to like 68-70*... not doing that because Mississippi gets stupid hot and Id end up with a $300 utility bill or something crazy. Plus when its 100* outside 70* inside feels absolutely freezing 
I let her out for an hour again earlier and shes been sleeping in her cool hide since I put her away. Maybe a twice daily free run of the apt will keep her happy, who knows. Or maybe scale back to large or xl rats and feed every 5 days... Im out of ideas 


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## Sauzo

Crochet a little stocking with a face mask with just eye holes and a little hole for her tongue to shoot out of and put it on her lol. Kind of like when you were a kid and your parents taped socks to your hands to keep you from scratching when you had chicken pox.

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_jmcrook_ (06-08-2018),_Stearns84_ (06-10-2018)

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## Gio

> Yeah I’ve got no idea at this point. The ambient temp is a tad warmer but it still only tops out at 79-80* air temps with the apt set at 73-75. I’d like it to get down to 75 but I’d have to crank the AC in the apt down to like 68-70*... not doing that because Mississippi gets stupid hot and I’d end up with a $300 utility bill or something crazy. Plus when it’s 100* outside 70* inside feels absolutely freezing 
> I let her out for an hour again earlier and she’s been sleeping in her cool hide since I put her away. Maybe a twice daily free run of the apt will keep her happy, who knows. Or maybe scale back to large or xl rats and feed every 5 days... I’m out of ideas 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I guarantee its not all about food. "Experienced keepers" may have their ideas, but NO snake in the wild, no matter what the species is lucky enough to eat weekly or biweekly. It just doesn't happen.

You have a SD or at the very least a dwarf retic. The biology behind that animal comes with seasonal food intake based on the migratory habits of the animals around it.

Sure you can feed a snake into inactivity, but I 100% disagree with that approach, and so will people that actually study these animals. 

You are doing the right thing by exploring other avenues! Retics are not some special species that are so different from every other snake species that you have to go back to the drawing board to figure out care requirements for them.

Maybe recheck the sex of your snake and make double certain you don't have a male vs male combat situation going on. 

I can honestly say, I don't have any issues with my retic over any other snake in the house. Carpet, Royal or Boa Constrictor. They all have very similar care requirements.

You WILL succeed, I know you will.

She is big and beautiful, but still a cold blooded reptile with millions of years of programed instincts that don't fully change in captivity,

I honestly hate to see her suffer with pushing while you try to figure things out.

Sending positive vibes your way brother!

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_jmcrook_ (06-08-2018)

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## jmcrook

Thank you Gio! If she keeps it up Im putting her in a T8 for a week or two and monitoring the results. Ill just trade her and Geralds cages for a bit. Thats my last idea before investing in a huge cage to see if the opposite approach works. 


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Gio (06-09-2018)

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## Gio

> Thank you Gio! If she keeps it up Im putting her in a T8 for a week or two and monitoring the results. Ill just trade her and Geralds cages for a bit. Thats my last idea before investing in a huge cage to see if the opposite approach works. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Best of luck. 

Try PMing Cody if hes still around. Hes got the biology degree and a background with the SD and dwarf stuff. 

Wallace is a bit of a spazz with the warmer temps here but just feed response stuff on non feeding days. 

Im going to make him wait a bit for his next meal. 

Hes been perched for 48 hours with his head hanging off the branch. 

I may drop a live rat in for him Tuesday. 

I think your girl needs at least 2 feet of vertical spcace. 

Keeping my thoughts and electron positive vibes going your way 👍💪🏻

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_jmcrook_ (06-09-2018)

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## Sauzo

> Best of luck. 
> 
> Try PMing Cody if hes still around. Hes got the biology degree and a background with the SD and dwarf stuff. 
> 
> Wallace is a bit of a spazz with the warmer temps here but just feed response stuff on non feeding days. 
> 
> Im going to make him wait a bit for his next meal. 
> 
> Hes been perched for 48 hours with his head hanging off the branch. 
> ...


Why would you feed live when your snake takes FT? There are no pros to it and only cons, especially as the rats become bigger.

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## Gio

> Why would you feed live when your snake takes FT? There are no pros to it and only cons, especially as the rats become bigger.


Because the royal only eats live and refuses on occasion. When that’s the case another animal will get the refused meal.  I’m well aware of what’s involved in feeding live and don’t make it a practice except for the royal. 


Any other questions??

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## Sauzo

Dang man, no need to get all testy lol. NM then, i'll just quit even inquiring and just just be a wall flower......guess my questions just irritate you. I'll just leave you be and keep my comments and questions myself

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_Stearns84_ (06-10-2018)

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## Gio

> Dang man, no need to get all testy lol. NM then, i'll just quit even inquiring and just just be a wall flower......guess my questions just irritate you. I'll just leave you be and keep my comments and questions myself


I think you know me well enough to know how I feed. Your question appeared condescending and somewhat inflammatory since you posted it publicly.  If you wanted to know the answer as to why you could have PMd me. 

I have posted countless times about the royal eating only live and often refusing. The next step is moving the prey to the next snake. 

The previous post didnt allow me to edit and say If the royal refuses on Tuesday because time passed. 

Not a big deal. Just figured you were aware this isnt my first rodeo and youd have figured out my reasoning. 

It seemed an off question for the direction of the conversation. 

No harm done. You know how I feed, and I enjoy your posts and beautiful animals. 

Early morning today and not feeling the best. 

All is well and we will continue to share thoughts and ideas.

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## jmcrook

To steer things back on to the topic of this thread, Phyllis, heres how last night went. Let her back out to cruise the apt for another hour and a half while I watched tv because she kept on pushing, and when I put her away she went to sleep all night. This animal seriously appears to need a couple long walks each day like shes a damn dog. Today is 6 days from the last feeding, I may just let her cruise and wear herself out and see if I can get to day 7 before feeding 


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Gio (06-09-2018)

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## Gio

> To steer things back on to the topic of this thread, Phyllis, heres how last night went. Let her back out to cruise the apt for another hour and a half while I watched tv because she kept on pushing, and when I put her away she went to sleep all night. This animal seriously appears to need a couple long walks each day like shes a damn dog. Today is 6 days from the last feeding, I may just let her cruise and wear herself out and see if I can get to day 7 before feeding 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Awesome!!

Sounds like you have things starting to work in your favor. 

Hope it continues 😊👍

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_jmcrook_ (06-09-2018)

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## jmcrook

> Awesome!!
> 
> Sounds like you have things starting to work in your favor. 
> 
> Hope it continues


Thanks brother! Im hoping it works too. Such a bummer to see her with a fat lip more often than not, Id love for that to change.


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Gio (06-09-2018)

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## Gio

> Thanks brother! Im hoping it works too. Such a bummer to see her with a fat lip more often than not, Id love for that to change.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


And Gerald doesnt do any of this does he??

I think you have got to be dialed in on your husbandry if your other retic is just fine. 

So looks like you wear her out like a dog and go from there. 

Frustrating Im sure but I think you are on the right track.

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_jmcrook_ (06-09-2018)

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## jmcrook

> And Gerald doesnt do any of this does he??
> 
> I think you have got to be dialed in on your husbandry if your other retic is just fine. 
> 
> So looks like you wear her out like a dog and go from there. 
> 
> Frustrating Im sure but I think you are on the right track.


Oh, Gerald pushes like a maniac too lol! He just generally doesnt end up with a swollen face, though he did have a fairly smashed up face when i got home from traveling a couple weeks ago. Its looking better and hes about to start a shed so hell probably look fine once he sheds. His face has always looked a little goofy because he has a scar on his bottom lip thats been there since I got him. His pushing (knock on wood) has never been quite a forceful and determined as Phyllis though. 
Gonna keep an eye on Phyllis through the day and if she pushes Ill just let her roam again. Id like her to be on at least a 7 day schedule again if at all possible. 10 would be great but lets not get ahead of ourselves lol


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Gio (06-09-2018)

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## Sauzo

> I think you know me well enough to know how I feed. Your question appeared condescending and somewhat inflammatory since you posted it publicly.  If you wanted to know the answer as to why you could have PM’d me. 
> 
> I have posted countless times about the royal eating only live and often refusing. The next step is moving the prey to the next snake. 
> 
> The previous post didn’t allow me to edit and say “If the royal refuses on Tuesday” because time passed. 
> 
> Not a big deal. Just figured you were aware this isn’t my first rodeo and you’d have figured out my reasoning. 
> 
> It seemed an off question for the direction of the conversation. 
> ...


I do know you and that is why i asked why you would feed live to the retic. I dont remember you feeding live to the BP, or maybe i just forgot as that snake isnt talked about much.

As for Pming you about the question, i really didnt think it was that big of deal. I was more curious as i know you feed FT and all of a sudden on this post, you popped in with 'maybe i'll feed him a live one' which threw me off. i figured you would do cervical dislocation before feeding.

As for being an 'off question', i asked it from your comment. It wasnt something i just pulled out of the air as like i said, i was really confused why you would feed live. I could understand from someone else but for as long as i've known you, you've had snakes and always fed FT, i was confused.

And while it seems you were a bit offended by my question, i was a bit offended by the response. You could have said something like 'come on man, you have known me for a long time and know i prefer to feed FT but the BP eats live' instead of the whole 'isnt my first rodeo' and 'any other questions' comment.

But anyways no harm done. I just felt like i needed to walk on eggshells or tiptoe around when i asked you questions or you might go bonkers on me.

And back to the subject of Phyllis, thats funny you gotta take her for walks daily....well not really but it would be if if i was one of your local friends and said 'lets hit the bar'.....and your response was 'sure but i need to take my retic for a walk real quick' lol.

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## jmcrook

> And back to the subject of Phyllis, thats funny you gotta take her for walks daily....well not really but it would be if if i was one of your local friends and said 'lets hit the bar'.....and your response was 'sure but i need to take my retic for a walk real quick' lol.


Gave her 6-7hours of free reign today... already pushing at the doors again. Just gonna go beat my head against a concrete wall until I can figure out the cause of this behavior 



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## Sauzo

> Gave her 6-7hours of free reign today... already pushing at the doors again. Just gonna go beat my head against a concrete wall until I can figure out the cause of this behavior 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Dang, thought you had it nailed down too with the wearing her out with outside time.

Well i think the only thing left is to try the smaller cage and switch her with Gerald and see what happens. I know every time i shove Caesar in the spare T8 when i clean his cage, he gets bent and takes out his anger on the door by pushing furiously lol. Then when i put him back in his nice clean cage, he is happy again.

best of luck with the smaller cage idea. If that doesnt work, I truly am at a loss. You try asking people on the retic FB pages that we are members of? Maybe someone there has more ideas?

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## Gio

> Gave her 6-7hours of free reign today... already pushing at the doors again. Just gonna go beat my head against a concrete wall until I can figure out the cause of this behavior 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What is the lowest temperature you can safely get your cages to sit at?

My only thought other than they are both males hating each other, which Id find very surprising; is you could try to drop temps again and see if they slow up. 

Its really all I can come up with. 

It sucks that this is becoming a stress project for you VS a relaxing, enjoyable escape 😡

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_jmcrook_ (06-10-2018)

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## jmcrook

> What is the lowest temperature you can safely get your cages to sit at?
> 
> My only thought other than they are both males hating each other, which Id find very surprising; is you could try to drop temps again and see if they slow up. 
> 
> Its really all I can come up with. 
> 
> It sucks that this is becoming a stress project for you VS a relaxing, enjoyable escape


Lowest hers will get is 78*. Im not even using the RHP currently. Just ambient temp and heat tape. Only way I can get it lower is if I set the ac in the apt to like 68-70, its currently set at 74* which keeps the snake room at 76-77 and the cage ambient around 78-79.
And yeah, its been a stress project for at least the last year. Ive been tearing my hair out and about ready to scream recently 


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## jmcrook

> Dang, thought you had it nailed down too with the wearing her out with outside time.
> 
> Well i think the only thing left is to try the smaller cage and switch her with Gerald and see what happens. I know every time i shove Caesar in the spare T8 when i clean his cage, he gets bent and takes out his anger on the door by pushing furiously lol. Then when i put him back in his nice clean cage, he is happy again.
> 
> best of luck with the smaller cage idea. If that doesnt work, I truly am at a loss. You try asking people on the retic FB pages that we are members of? Maybe someone there has more ideas?


Im really tempted to try the smaller cage. I actually stuffed her in there for a min the other night and it just made me sad how cramped she looked in there. And she gave a couple quick pushes in the whole 5 minutes I had her in there. 
Im thinking she either needs a rat every 5-6 days, or a 2-3lb rabbit and see how long she goes. These colossal rats are on average about the same size as the jumbos I was getting a year ago. She was 6-7lbs eating those and now shes like 23lbs. Maybe Ill give her a hippo next? 



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_Sauzo_ (06-10-2018)

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## Sauzo

> I’m really tempted to try the smaller cage. I actually stuffed her in there for a min the other night and it just made me sad how cramped she looked in there. And she gave a couple quick pushes in the whole 5 minutes I had her in there. 
> I’m thinking she either needs a rat every 5-6 days, or a 2-3lb rabbit and see how long she goes. These “colossal” rats are on average about the same size as the jumbos I was getting a year ago. She was 6-7lbs eating those and now she’s like 23lbs. Maybe I’ll give her a hippo next? 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I hear ya. Caesar looks funny in the T8. And also he looks pretty uncomfortable as well. Like i said, the smaller cage is the only thing i can think of thats left. I really dont think it's food related as she pushes so soon. I mean maybe try a substantially larger meal to see if that 'satisfies' her longer? When Caesar was at his height on pushing, i was basically underfeeding him i feel as i kept him on jumbo rats which like Phyllis, he was eating a long time ago. But like i said, i also think it was breeding for him as he hit the height at the usual breeding time for retics and since has pretty much completely quit. He still is out nightly and windshield wipes and destroys stuff but at least he doesnt push. I did up his food size about the same time though so i cant really pinpoint if that or the breeding was the factor that caused him to quit pushing. i Am leaning towards breeding though. 

Other than trying to smaller cage, only thing i can think of is give her something more substantial like maybe piglets from Monster Feeders. Or guinea pigs. I dont think its the amount of food she is getting that is doing it, maybe just she never really feels 'full' if that makes sense. So instead of smaller meals more often, maybe switch it up and try a nice big meal less often. Grasping at straws with it. And like i said before, i know Caesar and Rosey will both push if their humidity gets too high. Usually only happens when i put in fresh cypress and it spikes to 100% for a few days and i get condensation on the doors. Both of them really seem to hate that so I leave their doors opens and they get quiet and curl up and sleep. Vicky and the little boas love higher humidity but for some weird reason, Caesar and Rosey seem to like it on the lower end.

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Gio (06-10-2018)

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## Gio

> I hear ya. Caesar looks funny in the T8. And also he looks pretty uncomfortable as well. Like i said, the smaller cage is the only thing i can think of thats left. I really dont think it's food related as she pushes so soon. I mean maybe try a substantially larger meal to see if that 'satisfies' her longer? When Caesar was at his height on pushing, i was basically underfeeding him i feel as i kept him on jumbo rats which like Phyllis, he was eating a long time ago. But like i said, i also think it was breeding for him as he hit the height at the usual breeding time for retics and since has pretty much completely quit. He still is out nightly and windshield wipes and destroys stuff but at least he doesnt push. I did up his food size about the same time though so i cant really pinpoint if that or the breeding was the factor that caused him to quit pushing. i Am leaning towards breeding though. 
> 
> Other than trying to smaller cage, only thing i can think of is give her something more substantial like maybe piglets from Monster Feeders. Or guinea pigs. I dont think its the amount of food she is getting that is doing it, maybe just she never really feels 'full' if that makes sense. So instead of smaller meals more often, maybe switch it up and try a nice big meal less often. Grasping at straws with it. And like i said before, i know Caesar and Rosey will both push if their humidity gets too high. Usually only happens when i put in fresh cypress and it spikes to 100% for a few days and i get condensation on the doors. Both of them really seem to hate that so I leave their doors opens and they get quiet and curl up and sleep. Vicky and the little boas love higher humidity but for some weird reason, Caesar and Rosey seem to like it on the lower end.


I agree with all of this.

The ONLY other option I can think of, and it's a bit of a pain for you to deal with is getting the really big 8 foot cage. 

Now I kind of frown on that because the 3 of us all went for the "smaller" genetics, and your girl isn't really that big, however the constant movement is distressing.

Are you handy? I'm not, but if I was, I'd be tempted to build the mother of all cages. I know you are a mobile dude and need to up and go when jobs change, but once you are settled for good, build her the JW Marriott!

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_jmcrook_ (06-10-2018),_Sauzo_ (06-10-2018)

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## jmcrook

> I agree with all of this.
> 
> The ONLY other option I can think of, and it's a bit of a pain for you to deal with is getting the really big 8 foot cage. 
> 
> Now I kind of frown on that because the 3 of us all went for the "smaller" genetics, and your girl isn't really that big, however the constant movement is distressing.
> 
> Are you handy? I'm not, but if I was, I'd be tempted to build the mother of all cages. I know you are a mobile dude and need to up and go when jobs change, but once you are settled for good, build her the JW Marriott!


Once Im settled for good Ill give her half a room if necessary hah! But yeah, Im pretty darn handy and have a full wood shop accessible on campus that I could build something magnificent in. Just the issue of moving a heavy giant cage at the moment with having to move somewhat frequently depending on job opportunities. When I do get to settle I plan to make the sweetest snake room ever with cages built into the walls with walk-in closets that give access to the back of the cages. 
At Syracuse University we had a CNC router in the sculpture studio. Few years before I got Phyllis but I could have made the coolest damn cage with that thing. I think it would cut an 4x8-10 piece of material 


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Gio (06-11-2018),_Stearns84_ (06-11-2018)

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## Stearns84

Any update on Miss Pushyface

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## Skyrivers

Been fallowing the thread. So sorry you are having this issue with your baby. I am thankful I don't have pushing issues..... yet. I am interested in what the final solution will be though incase I ever do. Hope you find one soon. Best wishes.

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## jmcrook

> Any update on Miss Pushyface
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


She ate 4 days ago and is currently chilling under her warm hide. Hoping she stays calm for a few more days. 🤞


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_Stearns84_ (06-14-2018)

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## Sauzo

> Been fallowing the thread. So sorry you are having this issue with your baby. I am thankful I don't have pushing issues..... yet. I am interested in what the final solution will be though incase I ever do. Hope you find one soon. Best wishes.


There is no solution yet except maybe to put Phyllis on prozac lol.

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_jmcrook_ (06-14-2018)

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## jmcrook

> There is no solution yet except maybe to put Phyllis on prozac lol.


Lmao! Got a suspicion that she might go into shed soon. Averages every 37 days and shes at 25 right now. Usually 8-10 day process and shes looking kinda dark. Ill bug her later and see how she looks


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## jmcrook

12 days since feeding. shed, pooped, and ate today. Shed was like 12 long. Face looks great for Phyllis. Also crawled all over her perches with no pushing in the entire 7 hours between shedding and eating haha. 

 hah Geralds like wheres mine?!


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C.Marie (06-23-2018),_Dxw425_ (06-23-2018),Gio (06-23-2018)

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## Gio

> 12 days since feeding. shed, pooped, and ate today. Shed was like 12 long. Face looks great for Phyllis. Also crawled all over her perches with no pushing in the entire 7 hours between shedding and eating haha. 
> 
>  hah Geralds like wheres mine?!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Dude,

I love it! Digging the hardwood flooring, the bike and of course the setup.

She's really big, she makes Wallace, whom I believe is around 7-8', look small. 

My hard drive is full so I can't post pictures for a bit, but I have some great perching and feeding shots.

Honestly Wallace is more arboreal than terrestrial the larger he gets.

Looks like you may have things under control finally!

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## jmcrook

> Dude,
> 
> I love it! Digging the hardwood flooring, the bike and of course the setup.
> 
> She's really big, she makes Wallace, whom I believe is around 7-8', look small. 
> 
> My hard drive is full so I can't post pictures for a bit, but I have some great perching and feeding shots.
> 
> Honestly Wallace is more arboreal than terrestrial the larger he gets.
> ...


Lets not jump the gun too fast. I fed her about 2 hours after she pooped so she may not have had time to work up an interest in pushing hah! Fingers crossed though 
And yeah shes huge. She makes Gerald look small and hes 8 and ~9lbs. 


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## C.Marie

She is so pretty, you have an amazing pair of critters love seeing them , do  Gerald and Phllis ever eat on the same day? Just curious or my kids call it nosy  :ROFL:  thank you ever so much for sharing  :Wink:

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## jmcrook

> She is so pretty, you have an amazing pair of critters love seeing them , do  Gerald and Phllis ever eat on the same day? Just curious or my kids call it nosy  thank you ever so much for sharing


Thank you. I try to keep similar feeding schedules but Phyllis demands every 6 days and while Gerald would like that, I try to keep him at every 7-10 days. The ball python eats whenever he eats and the retics clean up whatever he doesnt want hahah


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C.Marie (06-23-2018)

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## C.Marie

Awesome sauce,  well a large and in charge lady gotta eat right? She is beautiful . I wonder if she too is try to fatten up to ovulate? Not implying you intend to breed but is that a possibility seeing I never had a retic I would not know but saw from someone on YouTube I think Jay they want to feast prior ? Thank you for your response and sharing your experience with this magical critters I really enjoyed :gj:

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## Skyrivers

Looking really nice there. Love how the perch is used so much. What size is your cage there?

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## jmcrook

> Looking really nice there. Love how the perch is used so much. What size is your cage there?


Thanks, cage is 72x30x18


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Gio (06-25-2018)

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## jmcrook

Never. Stops. Pushing.
(Tears all hair out of head)
She ate four days ago. Pooped today. Is now continuing the never ending war path of pushing and destruction of her face...


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## Gio

> Never. Stops. Pushing.
> (Tears all hair out of head)
> She ate four days ago. Pooped today. Is now continuing the never ending war path of pushing and destruction of her face...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's damn annoying!

I wish I had an answer.

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## jmcrook

> That's damn annoying!
> 
> I wish I had an answer.


I absolutely hate it. Makes for a very unenjoyable keeping experience 


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## Sauzo

> Never. Stops. Pushing.
> (Tears all hair out of head)
> She ate four days ago. Pooped today. Is now continuing the never ending war path of pushing and destruction of her face...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Man, that sucks. Does Phyllis lift and drop the corner of her shelf yet? That is Caesar's new thing. Guessing pushing was getting boring lol. Luckily, i think he can go close to 2 weeks now and hopefully my situation gets better. I decided to keep Caesar.

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_jmcrook_ (06-26-2018)

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## Skyrivers

Try taking her out and completely rearrang everything in the cage. Black out the doors completely. Put a towel over her face. Put her back in so that she can get the towel off on her own. Then close her in. If she doesn't know the way out I hope she will stop pushing. 

The only other thing I can think of is offer her a mate and see what happens. 


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## Sauzo

Phyllis is just a psycho retic lol. Caesar was psycho too but he has since more or less quit pushing. He still does it here and there but like i said, his new thing is to lift up a corner of the shelf and thump it up and down. So now he has a few scrape marks on the top of his head lol. Dude is just nuts.

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## Skyrivers

Anything in the house capable of making a low-frequency vibration that might be bugging them


> Phyllis is just a psycho retic lol. Caesar was psycho too but he has since more or less quit pushing. He still does it here and there but like i said, his new thing is to lift up a corner of the shelf and thump it up and down. So now he has a few scrape marks on the top of his head lol. Dude is just nuts.


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## Sauzo

Nah, Caesar usually only does it at night and not all the time. Some nights he is mellow, other nights, he just does his thing and cruises around and finds ways to get into trouble. Last night, he actually managed to break his silk vine in half. Rosey did it too. I swear, those 2 snakes break anything nice you give them.....it's like when they are angels, they are angels but when they are little devils, they are little devils to the 10 lol.

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## jmcrook

> Anything in the house capable of making a low-frequency vibration that might be bugging them
> 
> Sent from my N9560 using Tapatalk


Not that I know of. This behavior has persisted between two different states, two different cages, and three different residences now


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## 67temp

jmcrook, I know you have tried almost every possible thing but have you considered maybe it is a ventilation issue? These are animals that are very active and have a high metabolism which require more air than say a ball. Does she normally push where there might be airflow? If you catch her pushing how does she react when you open the door? Like will she just lay there for a few minutes with her head on the litter dam? 

I know my little guy will be poking around the perimeter of the door where there is fresh air. If I open the door he will just lay there for a few minutes with his head up on the dam before he comes out exploring.

Maybe its a cycle. She gets fed and goes into a food coma for a few days. When she comes out of the food coma she gets active which depletes the concentration of O2 in the tank. That causes her to push at the door to try to get out. To stop the pushing she gets fed, and the cycle starts all over again.

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## jmcrook

> jmcrook, I know you have tried almost every possible thing but have you considered maybe it is a ventilation issue? These are animals that are very active and have a high metabolism which require more air than say a ball. Does she normally push where there might be airflow? If you catch her pushing how does she react when you open the door? Like will she just lay there for a few minutes with her head on the litter dam? 
> 
> I know my little guy will be poking around the perimeter of the door where there is fresh air. If I open the door he will just lay there for a few minutes with his head up on the dam before he comes out exploring.
> 
> Maybe its a cycle. She gets fed and goes into a food coma for a few days. When she comes out of the food coma she gets active which depletes the concentration of O2 in the tank. That causes her to push at the door to try to get out. To stop the pushing she gets fed, and the cycle starts all over again.


90% of the pushing is where the doors meet at the center brave of the cage (Animal Plastics T25). I run the fan in the room 24/7. If I open the door shes out and about. Never just calmly rests at the litter dam. Out the door and straight up the cage stack. Im really curious to see what would happen if she ate a 3lb rabbit. Working on finding a local supplier because I have no room in the freezer for a monster feeders order which is minimum 50lbs


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## Gio

> 90% of the pushing is where the doors meet at the center brave of the cage (Animal Plastics T25). I run the fan in the room 24/7. If I open the door shes out and about. Never just calmly rests at the litter dam. Out the door and straight up the cage stack. Im really curious to see what would happen if she ate a 3lb rabbit. Working on finding a local supplier because I have no room in the freezer for a monster feeders order which is minimum 50lbs
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Its insanity 🤬

And now the feeding is taking the SD part away a bit. 

Try seeing if Cody would answer a PM and then see if you can call him.

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## jmcrook

I let her out to roam and shes just been sitting on the top of the cage stack for an hour and a half or more. I may just let her have the whole room for the night so she doesnt smash up her face...


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## RickyNY

JM, I found an old thread on a UK forum with people suggesting:

-They pushing because they want to breed.
-Giving them a smaller hide so they fit snuggly 
-And lastly a guy had to turn his viv on it's back so the glass was the roof and had to re-arrange the heat and lighting. And it made his retic stop pushing.

I don't know brother, is up to you to try this ones. Good luck!

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## jmcrook

> JM, I found an old thread on a UK forum with people suggesting:
> 
> -They pushing because they want to breed.
> -Giving them a smaller hide so they fit snuggly 
> -And lastly a guy had to turn his viv on it's back so the glass was the roof and had to re-arrange the heat and lighting. And it made his retic stop pushing.
> 
> I don't know brother, is up to you to try this ones. Good luck!


Yeah generally males will push when wanting to breed but some females will too. 
Her hides are most definitely snug lol. She wears them like a hat. Kind of a Chris Farley fat guy in a little coat scenario. 
Its gotta be food, cage, or breeding related. Or all of the above. Part of me thinks theres something about her cage environment that I cant pinpoint. She was pushing all day, I let her out, and she calmly climbed to the top of the cages and then curled up and sat there for over two hours without moving. Was still there last I checked. Im just letting her have the whole room tonight as its snake proof, she cant get out or get into anything in there. Maybe she needs was cooler temps? Who knows, Im at a loss here

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## Stearns84

> Yeah generally males will push when wanting to breed but some females will too. 
> Her hides are most definitely snug lol. She wears them like a hat. Kind of a Chris Farley fat guy in a little coat scenario. 
> Its gotta be food, cage, or breeding related. Or all of the above. Part of me thinks theres something about her cage environment that I cant pinpoint. She was pushing all day, I let her out, and she calmly climbed to the top of the cages and then curled up and sat there for over two hours without moving. Was still there last I checked. Im just letting her have the whole room tonight as its snake proof, she cant get out or get into anything in there. Maybe she needs was cooler temps? Who knows, Im at a loss here


Keep us posted on the free roam all night and how it went. 

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_jmcrook_ (06-27-2018)

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## Gio

Man,, 

I dont think food. You would get other signs. When my dude is hungry he will measure me up and strike at the glass or need a lot of hook before I get him out. 

Theres no way a SD should need that much food. 

I think it stops the pushing but only because of the energy diverted to digestion. 

That UK board suggestion may be good, but what a pain. Building your own cage would maybe help but again big pain. 

Dude I feel bad for you.

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_jmcrook_ (06-27-2018),_RickyNY_ (06-30-2018)

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## Skyrivers

Is there anything in her enclosure she avoids? Try simplifying things and give her the basics for a while. Have you tried changing the color of the enclosure? I know they don't see the way we do. How did she do last night being out? Did she stay up high all night? She might feel safer higher up. Building an arboreal cage might help? One where she can climb 4 to 5 feet up and sit on a ledge high up? It seams she likes being high up.

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## Gio

> Is there anything in her enclosure she avoids? Try simplifying things and give her the basics for a while. Have you tried changing the color of the enclosure? I know they don't see the way we do. How did she do last night being out? Did she stay up high all night? She might feel safer higher up. Building an arboreal cage might help? One where she can climb 4 to 5 feet up and sit on a ledge high up? It seams she likes being high up.


Hes done all of this sans the much larger cage. Hes added perches moved stuff, moved cages. 
Its been going on for at least a year on and off. 

The cage situation for him right now is tough. He moved around with work a bit and is living single. 

Maybe when he plants his roots he can build something big. 

T-65 is excessive but maybe needed for this girl.

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## Skyrivers

> He’s done all of this sans the much larger cage. He’s added perches moved stuff, moved cages. 
> It’s been going on for at least a year on and off. 
> 
> The cage situation for him right now is tough. He moved around with work a bit and is living single. 
> 
> Maybe when he plants his roots he can build something big. 
> 
> T-65 is excessive but maybe needed for this girl.


I get it. Being on the road with pets is tough. I am grateful that I am not on the road with all my zoo. I am working on something big. Cant wait to reveal after done in a couple of months. I am keeping it modular so I can move it when I find a house that was not hurt by last years hurricane. Just brain storming trying to help.

I wonder if live plants would help. It did with my grumpy super fire BP.

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## Gio

> I get it. Being on the road with pets is tough. I am grateful that I am not on the road with all my zoo. I am working on something big. Cant wait to reveal after done in a couple of months. I am keeping it modular so I can move it when I find a house that was not hurt by last years hurricane. Just brain storming trying to help.
> 
> I wonder if live plants would help. It did with my grumpy super fire BP.


Cool you are building something. Make it tall. Cant wait to see it. 

JM will love boas after this retic insanity 😂

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_jmcrook_ (06-27-2018)

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## Skyrivers

> Cool you are building something. Make it tall. Cant wait to see it. 
> 
> JM will love boas after this retic insanity


Lets just say I can put a kiddie pool inside for Rainbow and she will have plenty of room to move around and climb. She thought her cage was larger when I first got her. Now it is time for amazing. Having so much fun.

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_jmcrook_ (06-27-2018)

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## jmcrook

You arent going to believe this. She had free run of an entire room for the whole night... shes still in the same spot on top of the cage stack and hasnt moved. 



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Gio (06-27-2018),_MR Snakes_ (12-13-2018),_RickyNY_ (06-30-2018),_Sauzo_ (06-27-2018)

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## Skyrivers

I believe it. She wants to be up high as I suspected. She needs a taller cage with a shelf to perch on. 


> You arent going to believe this. She had free run of an entire room for the whole night... shes still in the same spot on top of the cage stack and hasnt moved. 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Gio

> You arent going to believe this. She had free run of an entire room for the whole night... shes still in the same spot on top of the cage stack and hasnt moved. 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Excellent. 
She also doesnt look as huge as I thought she was. 
Maybe she doesnt like AP caging lol.  

Seriously though something must be bothering her inside or entertaining her inside. 
Im going to watch the first Ace Ventura Pet Detcive movie and see if I can find an answer 👍

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_jmcrook_ (06-27-2018),_RickyNY_ (06-30-2018)

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## jmcrook

> I believe it. She wants to be up high as I suspected. She needs a taller cage with a shelf to perch on. 
> 
> Sent from my N9560 using Tapatalk


Seems to be the case. Theres no way I can do a 6 tall cage though. Maybe 4. Jeez... Im gonna have to think hard about this. I love the hell out of this critter but my god, shes more work than a damn dog sometimes 


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Gio (06-27-2018)

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## jmcrook

> Excellent. 
> She also doesnt look as huge as I thought she was. 
> Maybe she doesnt like AP caging lol.  
> 
> Seriously though something must be bothering her inside or entertaining her inside. 
> Im going to watch the first Ace Ventura Pet Detcive movie and see if I can find an answer


Lol relative to a small bedroom she doesnt look big. Get her back in her cage and she looks enormous. She might really need a 6x3x4 but Jesus Christ thats a big ass cage! 


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## Skyrivers

> Seems to be the case. Theres no way I can do a 6 tall cage though. Maybe 4. Jeez... Im gonna have to think hard about this. I love the hell out of this critter but my god, shes more work than a damn dog sometimes 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Get a book shelf that is 5 feet tall. Secure the shelves and cut a path for her to climb on. Put a glass door on the front with hinges. Home depot has the glass sheets that would work. Cut most of the shelf away so that she can see down between the layers. Cheap, lightweight, and efficient. Just make sure the shelves are at least 18 inches deep and I think she will be fine her size.

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_MR Snakes_ (12-13-2018)

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## Gio

[QUOTE=jmcrook;2627718]Seems to be the case. Theres no way I can do a 6 tall cage though. Maybe 4. Jeez... Im gonna have to think hard about this. I love the hell out of this critter but my god, shes more work than a damn dog sometimes 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE

6 x 3 x 3 is pretty damn nice. Not worth going over that for her. Large mainland sure but like you are saying, too much work. Too little enjoyment.

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_jmcrook_ (06-27-2018)

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## 67temp

> You arent going to believe this. She had free run of an entire room for the whole night... shes still in the same spot on top of the cage stack and hasnt moved.


That a good start and shows she doesn't like the cage. Now to narrow it down some more and figure out what is bothering her.

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_jmcrook_ (06-27-2018)

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## jmcrook

> That a good start and shows she doesn't like the cage. Now to narrow it down some more and figure out what is bothering her.


I think she just wants a very large and tall space. Figures that I would end up with worlds largest super dwarf that needs more space than most mainland retics


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## zina10

Maybe she is claustrophobic?  Dark cages with a glass front can be great because they mimic a big "hide" and many snakes crave the security this seems to give them. 

Perhaps she wants to be out in the open for some reason, though.

She might be one of those that would like one of those big cages they make for birds that have a huge and sturdy Manzanita tree in the middle. Add some shelves here and there.

Friends of mine converted a hallway closet to a giant bird cage. They took the doors off and built a Plexiglas front that can be opened. They treated the walls with a non toxic paint that can easily be washed down. The floor has a removable tray that holds substrate. There is a big tree in there. It would be easy to add big corner shelves. Adding heat panels should also not be a big problem? As well as some LED lights.




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## Kam

Beautiful little noodle. And I love her name. 


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## jmcrook

> Maybe she is claustrophobic?  Dark cages with a glass front can be great because they mimic a big "hide" and many snakes crave the security this seems to give them. 
> 
> Perhaps she wants to be out in the open for some reason, though.
> 
> She might be one of those that would like one of those big cages they make for birds that have a huge and sturdy Manzanita tree in the middle. Add some shelves here and there.
> 
> Friends of mine converted a hallway closet to a giant bird cage. They took the doors off and built a Plexiglas front that can be opened. They treated the walls with a non toxic paint that can easily be washed down. The floor has a removable tray that holds substrate. There is a big tree in there. It would be easy to add big corner shelves. Adding heat panels should also not be a big problem? As well as some LED lights.
> 
> 
> ...


I rent so not an option 


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## AbsoluteApril

oh my, I can't believe she stayed there all night, that is adorable, funny and sad all at the same time. I totally feel your frustration. 
Seems like she just really doesn't like that cage.  Wish I could lend you a white one to see if that changes anything. Either that or a tub.
*fingers crossed* for an eventual resolution that you both are happy with.

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_jmcrook_ (06-27-2018)

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## jmcrook

> oh my, I can't believe she stayed there all night, that is adorable, funny and sad all at the same time. I totally feel your frustration. 
> Seems like she just really doesn't like that cage.  Wish I could lend you a white one to see if that changes anything. Either that or a tub.
> *fingers crossed* for an eventual resolution that you both are happy with.


Shes still on top of the cages but moved down to the empty spot next to the thermostats. Im beyond frustrated with the pushing though.
I feel like its gotta be something about the cage/environment/climate but she did this in her T8 as well before being upgraded, just not quite as severely. 


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## EL-Ziggy

I think some animals just don't like being in cages at all. My Olive python doesn't push but he gets restless and roams his tank constantly if I don't let him out every few days. If I let him out of his cage for a few for some handling, exercise, and open air he usually settles down quite a bit. Maybe try just letting her out to free roam a little more. I'm not sure what the underlying issues are but I hope she calms down for you JM.

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_jmcrook_ (06-27-2018)

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## jmcrook

> I think some animals just don't like being in cages at all. My Olive python doesn't push but he gets restless and roams his tank constantly if I don't let him out every few days. If I let him out of his cage for a few for some handling, exercise, and open air he usually settles down quite a bit. Maybe try just letting her out to free roam a little more. I'm not sure what the underlying issues are but I hope she calms down for you JM.


Man, Ive tried... let her roam the roam for 7-8 hours once. Put her back and immediately began pushing furiously at the door. As soon as shes pooped which is about four days after eating regardless of prey size, nothing stops her from pushing except more food or just not putting her back in her cage. 


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## Stearns84

I've really been tossing around the idea of building my own enclosure for Gene and making it custom sized. But at 6' - 7' and 4' tall will be heavy AF when it's made of wood and full sealed blah blah blah. Simple fix, get astroturf, radiant oil filled heater (need to make a surrounding for it) and a kiddie pool. Temp snake room run on ambient temps.



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_jmcrook_ (06-27-2018)

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## Gio

Why so difficult little girl??

She's such a looker and I remember this first post like yesterday. I was envious that day. Sauzo and I went on high alert for SD x Dwarf stuff.

JM,

You'll get it figured out, I know you are a smart dude. Young and busy, but I think you said you are handy and that will come into play eventually.

Plus,,, the creative/art side of you leads me to believe if you build a unit yourself at some point, the jungles of the world will be jealous.

Another handy idea I have which may or may not be appealing. Find some type of AP arboreal unit, cut a hole in the bottom large enough for Philly to get through and do the same to the top of your T-25. Somehow join the cages together at the holes making it so they can still be broken down and separated but fully secure and give her an upstairs?  Boaphile has "cubes" that can extend a 4 foot cage to a 6 footer. I'm sure AP could make something.

Just a thought since we are brainstorming.




> Hey! Just wanted to share a short progression of my now 6 month old Kalatoa Super Dwarf Retic. Not exactly a giant but a "tiny giant" of sorts. Apologies for some of the blurry cell phone pics, she doesn't exactly like to hold still for any period of time. 
> Here's Phyllis, hatched by Daniel Solis mid Feb (started pipping 2/11/16, clutch all out of the eggs by 2/14/16)
> 
> 
> Deep in shed the day she arrived (freezing cold and an entire day late... Thanks for sending her to Washington State after she was 20 min from my doorstep in Missouri, FedEx!)
> 
> Exploring her new enclosure. Itty bitty at 50ish grams and three weeks old.
> 
> 
> ...

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_jmcrook_ (06-27-2018)

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## Stearns84

> Why so difficult little girl??
> 
> She's such a looker and I remember this first post like yesterday. I was envious that day. Sauzo and I went on high alert for SD x Dwarf stuff.
> 
> JM,
> 
> You'll get it figured out, I know you are a smart dude. Young and busy, but I think you said you are handy and that will come into play eventually.
> 
> Plus,,, the creative/art side of you leads me to believe if you build a unit yourself at some point, the jungles of the world will be jealous.
> ...


 Stacking would be a neat idea but I'm curious how to heat that. 

Wonder if it's a night thing he likes? If you put his enclosure on top of the others?

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## jmcrook

> I've really been tossing around the idea of building my own enclosure for Gene and making it custom sized. But at 6' - 7' and 4' tall will be heavy AF when it's made of wood and full sealed blah blah blah. Simple fix, get astroturf, radiant oil filled heater (need to make a surrounding for it) and a kiddie pool. Temp snake room run on ambient temps.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Ive been thinking about just building a cage too. I mean its just a big box with windows after all. But yeah it would be heavy as hell. Could make it more modular and easier to maneuver if I designed it though...


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## jmcrook

> Why so difficult little girl??
> 
> She's such a looker and I remember this first post like yesterday. I was envious that day. Sauzo and I went on high alert for SD x Dwarf stuff.
> 
> JM,
> 
> You'll get it figured out, I know you are a smart dude. Young and busy, but I think you said you are handy and that will come into play eventually.
> 
> Plus,,, the creative/art side of you leads me to believe if you build a unit yourself at some point, the jungles of the world will be jealous.
> ...


I was actually looking at some of those boaphile designs earlier with the vertical pass through between the upstairs and downstairs. Not a bad idea really. Not really wild about cutting up cages but AP could cut replacement pieces if I ever wanted them back to normal. Good ideas all around here! 


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Gio (06-27-2018)

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## jmcrook

> Stacking would be a neat idea but I'm curious how to heat that. 
> 
> Wonder if it's a night thing he likes? If you put his enclosure on top of the others?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Id probably just heat the bottom cage and let the heat panel give a mild warm spot in the space above it. Multiple climate zones available then
That crossed my mind too. Maybe just getting her cage higher in the stack would help? Ive got taller posts and could get the bottom of her cage about 3 off the ground... put the two T8s on the shelf below it?


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Gio (06-27-2018),_Stearns84_ (06-27-2018)

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## Sauzo

> JM, I found an old thread on a UK forum with people suggesting:
> 
> -They pushing because they want to breed.
> -Giving them a smaller hide so they fit snuggly 
> -And lastly a guy had to turn his viv on it's back so the glass was the roof and had to re-arrange the heat and lighting. And it made his retic stop pushing.
> 
> I don't know brother, is up to you to try this ones. Good luck!


Caesar pushed like crazy because he wanted to breed. After breeding 'season', he quit pushing. Females generally arent going to push as the males are the ones in competition and out looking for a female. Some males will also become aggressive during breeding season too. I am lucky that Caesar didnt get aggressive, just pushed all the time.

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## Sauzo

> Lol relative to a small bedroom she doesn’t look big. Get her back in her cage and she looks enormous. She might really need a 6’x3’x4’ but Jesus Christ that’s a big ass cage! 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thats nuts. You must have a unique snake lol. I see so many huge retics stuffed in 18 inch or 2 foot tall cages and just sit there content. Maybe she just likes the 'fresh' air. I know when Caesar acts up, i can usually open a door and he will just curl up in front of the open door and sleep or balance on the litter dam and just sit there for hours.

Try letting the humidity drop down a good amount. Like i said before, Rosey and Caesar both dont like high humidity and will push and pace and overall be restless to the point of being all night until i open a door and let them out and let the humidity drop. Then i put them back and they are fine, until the humidity goes up again. Vicky and Gina seem to like the higher humidity though.

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_Stearns84_ (06-27-2018)

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## jmcrook

> Thats nuts. You must have a unique snake lol. I see so many huge retics stuffed in 18 inch or 2 foot tall cages and just sit there content. Maybe she just likes the 'fresh' air. I know when Caesar acts up, i can usually open a door and he will just curl up in front of the open door and sleep or balance on the litter dam and just sit there for hours.
> 
> Try letting the humidity drop down a good amount. Like i said before, Rosey and Caesar both dont like high humidity and will push and pace and overall be restless to the point of being all night until i open a door and let them out and let the humidity drop. Then i put them back and they are fine, until the humidity goes up again. Vicky and Gina seem to like the higher humidity though.


Tried. Left the doors open all night, it got down to 59% humidity. Put her back in before going to see Jurassic World a little bit ago and just got home to see that shes been raising hell the entire time... she ate only 5 days ago... 


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## jmcrook

Fed her, Gerald, and Geoffrey tonight. Forgot to mention I got her a concrete mixing tub/water bowl/pool yesterday. Need to remove the second from the left shelf support to fit its long side against the depth of the cage. Takes up a ton of space though. But she did use it immediately after eating like she always used to. Been in there for an hour or more. Maybe thats something shes been wanting? It is a mystery to me anymore. 
Maybe an 8x2.5-3x2 cage with one giant tub/bowl and one big hide with a shelf covering 1/3 of the cage on the cool side halfway up the height or a tad more and another climbing obstacle to be determined. Unless AP can do something manageably modular at that scale I may get more serious about designing a custom plywood cage and deck that sucker out.


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_Stearns84_ (06-28-2018)

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## Stearns84

> Fed her, Gerald, and Geoffrey tonight. Forgot to mention I got her a concrete mixing tub/water bowl/pool yesterday. Need to remove the second from the left shelf support to fit its long side against the depth of the cage. Takes up a ton of space though. But she did use it immediately after eating like she always used to. Been in there for an hour or more. Maybe thats something shes been wanting? It is a mystery to me anymore. 
> Maybe an 8x2.5-3x2 cage with one giant tub/bowl and one big hide with a shelf covering 1/3 of the cage on the cool side halfway up the height or a tad more and another climbing obstacle to be determined. Unless AP can do something manageably modular at that scale I may get more serious about designing a custom plywood cage and deck that sucker out.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Just make 2 and I'll come pick it up!

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_jmcrook_ (06-28-2018)

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## jmcrook

> Just make 2 and I'll come pick it up!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


If I do Ill let you know! Its about a 12hr drive though hahha! 
The only thing really stopping me from starting a build is the inevitable ungodly weight of a birch plywood cage at 8 even if I make it two 4 sections. Need to just call AP because Ali hasnt answered any of my emails for the last three weeks. Ideal cage that can make it through a standard door for me would be two 4x30x24 cages that connect to make an 8 behemoth cage. Gonna wait on that though and hope to jeebus that giving Phyllis a swimming pool will calm her ass down. Shes still in there since last night lol.


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Gio (06-28-2018),_Stearns84_ (06-28-2018)

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## Stearns84

> If I do Ill let you know! Its about a 12hr drive though hahha! 
> The only thing really stopping me from starting a build is the inevitable ungodly weight of a birch plywood cage at 8 even if I make it two 4 sections. Need to just call AP because Ali hasnt answered any of my emails for the last three weeks. Ideal cage that can make it through a standard door for me would be two 4x30x24 cages that connect to make an 8 behemoth cage. Gonna wait on that though and hope to jeebus that giving Phyllis a swimming pool will calm her ass down. Shes still in there since last night lol.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


She is so beautiful for being a pain.

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_jmcrook_ (06-28-2018)

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## jmcrook

> She is so beautiful for being a pain.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Thanks man. Sometimes I just sit and stare at her thinking, wow... I raised that thing from a two ounce worm less than two feet long into this beast of an animal. Blows my mind sometimes. I wish yall could see her in person. Shes quite the impressive physical presence when handling her. And yeah, the best looking critters seem to be the most demanding and the most work. Still love her as much as she drives me nuts most of the time 


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_Stearns84_ (06-28-2018)

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## Stearns84

> Thanks man. Sometimes I just sit and stare at her thinking, wow... I raised that thing from a two ounce worm less than two feet long into this beast of an animal. Blows my mind sometimes. I wish yall could see her in person. Shes quite the impressive physical presence when handling her. And yeah, the best looking critters seem to be the most demanding and the most work. Still love her as much as she drives me nuts most of the time 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I 100% agree, have had lots of animals over the years but Gene is so unique. First reptile I've ever had that honestly seems to have a personality. He seems to show emotion and empathy, but it might just be me over reading. 

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_jmcrook_ (06-28-2018)

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## 67temp

> Thanks man. Sometimes I just sit and stare at her thinking, wow... I raised that thing from a two ounce worm less than two feet long into this beast of an animal. Blows my mind sometimes. I wish yall could see her in person. Shes quite the impressive physical presence when handling her. And yeah, the best looking critters seem to be the most demanding and the most work. Still love her as much as she drives me nuts most of the time 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Have you gotten a recent weight or length on her?

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## jmcrook

> Have you gotten a recent weight or length on her?


~9.5-10 or so and closing in on 25lbs.



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_EL-Ziggy_ (06-29-2018)

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## jmcrook

> I 100% agree, have had lots of animals over the years but Gene is so unique. First reptile I've ever had that honestly seems to have a personality. He seems to show emotion and empathy, but it might just be me over reading. 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Lol maybe a little bit over reading and I do the same at times, but they definitely show a seemingly higher level of recognition and interaction and inquisitiveness than any other snake Ive had. 


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## Skyrivers

I know she is worth it. Keep up the love.




> Thanks man. Sometimes I just sit and stare at her thinking, wow... I raised that thing from a two ounce worm less than two feet long into this beast of an animal. Blows my mind sometimes. I wish yall could see her in person. Shes quite the impressive physical presence when handling her. And yeah, the best looking critters seem to be the most demanding and the most work. Still love her as much as she drives me nuts most of the time 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## Stearns84

Update?

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## jmcrook

> Update?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Shes sleeping in her hide. Its only been two days since she ate, so well see how she acts in a couple days.


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_Stearns84_ (06-29-2018)

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## RickyNY

> Seriously though something must be bothering her inside or entertaining her inside. 
> Im going to watch the first Ace Ventura Pet Detcive movie and see if I can find an answer 👍


Hahaha Gio  :ROFL:

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Gio (06-30-2018)

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## jmcrook

Three days after feeding. Pushing ensues. Im putting her back in a T8 and hen smashing my head against some concrete until either I die or come up with a better solution 


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## jmcrook

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_Dxw425_ (07-01-2018),Gio (07-01-2018),_Kam_ (06-30-2018)

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## Kam

> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Look at that iridescence. 


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## jmcrook

> Look at that iridescence. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Look at that ten foot snake on 8 square feet of floor space. Kinda sad but before I left for my studio she was curled up and not pushing, so... 🤷:cens0r:♂️


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_Kam_ (07-01-2018),_Stearns84_ (06-30-2018)

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## jmcrook

Just got back. Still pushing. I give up. Who wants this animal? Come and get her 


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## Stearns84

> Just got back. Still pushing. I give up. Who wants this animal? Come and get her 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I say just leave his enclosure open and keep that door closed. 

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## jmcrook

> I say just leave his enclosure open and keep that door closed. 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


I would but... carpeted snake room + renting = losing my deposit. If it was hard floors in there Id turn her loose. She unleashes about a gallon of piss every time she goes and thats not coming out of that carpet. 
And its HER cage. Gerald is the male and theres no way hes getting free roam anywhere. Hed be gone in two seconds, hes like an 8 rat snake except twice as fast


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_Stearns84_ (07-01-2018)

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## Stearns84

> I would but... carpeted snake room + renting = losing my deposit. If it was hard floors in there Id turn her loose. She unleashes about a gallon of piss every time she goes and thats not coming out of that carpet. 
> And its HER cage. Gerald is the male and theres no way hes getting free roam anywhere. Hed be gone in two seconds, hes like an 8 rat snake except twice as fast
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My bad! I knew that! #payattentiontogenders

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## jmcrook

> My bad! I knew that! #payattentiontogenders
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


No worries man! Just making sure were both talking about the same snake haha


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_Stearns84_ (07-01-2018)

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## jmcrook

Gave her a free roaming session earlier and her cage back... she chose to hang out quietly on the cool side of her cage and the sliding door has been open for her all day. Maybe Geralds scent from having spent the night in that cage has calmed her down? Who freakin knows anymore.

Also ordered a chest freezer so now I can make a big feeder order of rabbits and pigs and guinea pigs and whatever else I could possibly need


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Gio (07-01-2018),_Kam_ (07-02-2018),_MR Snakes_ (12-13-2018),_Stearns84_ (07-01-2018)

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## Gio

Looks good brother!
Keep fighting the fight. Retics are smart, but we still have an edge LOL!

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_jmcrook_ (07-01-2018)

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## Skyrivers

> Gave her a free roaming session earlier and her cage back... she chose to hang out quietly on the cool side of her cage and the sliding door has been open for her all day. Maybe Geralds scent from having spent the night in that cage has calmed her down? Who freakin knows anymore.
> 
> Also ordered a chest freezer so now I can make a big feeder order of rabbits and pigs and guinea pigs and whatever else I could possibly need
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Happy you got the freezer. Now you can save money for sure. I need to pick one up myself. Been so focused on caging right now though. Is good she clamed down a little. 




> Looks good brother!
>  Keep fighting the fight. Retics are smart, but we still have an edge LOL!


That is what they want us to think. LOL :Razz:  :Very Happy:  :Surprised:

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_MR Snakes_ (12-13-2018)

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## jmcrook

Welp, day 5 and shes trying to peel her face from her skull so I guess Im feeding her. Next trial is either big ass rabbits and/or piglets less frequently or bump back down to xl or jumbo rats every 4-5 days. This is basically just not fun anymore at this point. 


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## Sauzo

> Welp, day 5 and shes trying to peel her face from her skull so I guess Im feeding her. Next trial is either big ass rabbits and/or piglets less frequently or bump back down to xl or jumbo rats every 4-5 days. This is basically just not fun anymore at this point. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Dang man. I would go crazy. Personally i would probably stick to smaller more frequent meals if the size meal doesnt change her pushing time. I mean every 5-7 days is a lot of food, even for a female retic.

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_MR Snakes_ (12-13-2018)

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## jmcrook

> Dang man. I would go crazy. Personally i would probably stick to smaller more frequent meals if the size meal doesnt change her pushing time. I mean every 5-7 days is a lot of food, even for a female retic.


Its driving me nuts. I havent tried anything larger than a 4xl guinea pig so next test is medium rabbits and maybe piglets if I make a monster feeders order. Chest freezer should be here Thursday. 
If big meals dont slow her down then I guess large to jumbo rats every four days and thats the longest Im ever allowed to travel again until this animal dies/escapes/eats me/who knows 


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_MR Snakes_ (12-13-2018),_Sauzo_ (07-03-2018),_Stearns84_ (07-03-2018)

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## Sauzo

Lol lucky for me Caesar has mellowed out. He's about a day from 2 weeks and still quiet. Only gets loud when his humidity spikes. I just open a door and once it dries out some, he will crawl into a hide and curl up.

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## jmcrook

> Lol lucky for me Caesar has mellowed out. He's about a day from 2 weeks and still quiet. Only gets loud when his humidity spikes. I just open a door and once it dries out some, he will crawl into a hide and curl up.


You dont even begin to understand how jealous I am of that... 


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Gio (07-03-2018),_Sauzo_ (07-03-2018)

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## Gio

Hey,

I'm grabbing at straws here so I'll add this suggestion/idea/thought.

I'm wondering IF, its the design of the cage for her that gives her a spot to push and get to traction. Maybe you should try to find a used Boaphile or Pro-Line or Vision cage and just try it. Sure its a waste of money of it doesn't work, but may end up worth it if it does.

I'm at a loss, other than building your own custom cage, I can't come up with anything.

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_jmcrook_ (07-03-2018)

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## jmcrook

Ive considered that too. Thats partially why Im open to the idea of swinging doors instead of sliding. If anything becomes available within a decent driving distance of me Im willing to give it a shot.


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## Sauzo

> Hey,
> 
> I'm grabbing at straws here so I'll add this suggestion/idea/thought.
> 
> I'm wondering IF, its the design of the cage for her that gives her a spot to push and get to traction. Maybe you should try to find a used Boaphile or Pro-Line or Vision cage and just try it. Sure its a waste of money of it doesn't work, but may end up worth it if it does.
> 
> I'm at a loss, other than building your own custom cage, I can't come up with anything.


My big boa used to push at the end corners on the Proline and being the corners and stuff arent rounded and smoothed like AP cages, she somehow managed to cut her nose. That's not to say that the AP cage isnt for some weird reason making her push though.

But yeah, i agree, that is so weird why she is constantly pushing.

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## jmcrook

I asked Garrett Hartle about it and he wonders if feeding her so much when she pushes has her trained wrong. Thats coming from a guy that only feeds some of his adult SDs 15-18 meals a year though. Not sure how he manages that. I probably did just feed her a bit heavily right out of the gate but I was just going by Codys recommendation in the SD care thread on here. Who knows. Freezer will be here Thursday then I can order a ton of whatever she wants to eat and call it done. Just worried shes gonna turn into the fattest snake ever


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## Stearns84

> I asked Garrett Hartle about it and he wonders if feeding her so much when she pushes has her trained wrong. Thats coming from a guy that only feeds some of his adult SDs 15-18 meals a year though. Not sure how he manages that. I probably did just feed her a bit heavily right out of the gate but I was just going by Codys recommendation in the SD care thread on here. Who knows. Freezer will be here Thursday then I can order a ton of whatever she wants to eat and call it done. Just worried shes gonna turn into the fattest snake ever
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


"Tonight on my 600lb snake......."

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C.Marie (07-03-2018),_jmcrook_ (07-03-2018),_Sauzo_ (07-03-2018)

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## Gio

I agree, you have to back down on the feeding. I'm hoping somehow in the cooler months you can make a seasonal change that forces her back into natural SD migratory feeding cycle. 

I was reading an article on diamond pythons that discussed overfeeding, and inadequate temperature changes. Granted that species is completely different in many ways. I know the evolutional/history of the dwarf populations. They are supposed to feed less and eat smaller prey items. During the migrations, they certainly will eat more, but even still Mother Nature doesn't make it easy. 

I know it solves the pushing issue for a short time, but is likely starting to add up internally. It is a very frustrating situation that I wish I could help you with. 

A buddy of mine talked to Garrett for an hour yesterday and holds him in high regard. He maybe on to something in mentioning your girl could be conditioned to push and then receive food. 

Too bad they don't make those embarrassing "cones of shame" that we put on dogs with licking problems, for snakes LOL!

She's driving you nuts, and that's the opposite of what we want from this hobby . Grrrrrrrr!!!

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C.Marie (07-03-2018),_jmcrook_ (07-03-2018),_Stearns84_ (07-03-2018)

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## Stearns84

How's she doing? 

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## jmcrook

> How's she doing? 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Day four. Smashing face again. Hasnt even pooped yet. I just dont get it. Just left a message with the closest exotics vet near me, which is 3.5hrs away. 


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## Stearns84

> Day four. Smashing face again. Hasnt even pooped yet. I just dont get it. Just left a message with the closest exotics vet near me, which is 3.5hrs away. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If it was me (keep in mind I don't know much) I'd temp an enclosure. Go buy 3 or 4 4x8 sheets of junk particle board Pyle wood. Frame up a make shift big enclosure 8'by 3' or 4' high. Toss in his glass fronts from the t25 with just mirror mounts. Line the heck out of it with paper towels or puppy mats and see how she does. Obviously it won't last more than a week see how she does. If she doesn't push in a monster cage you know the route you need to go. She pushes then keep investigating.  Won't cost more than $30.

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_jmcrook_ (07-06-2018)

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## Stearns84

> If it was me (keep in mind I don't know much) I'd temp an enclosure. Go buy 3 or 4 4x8 sheets of junk particle board Pyle wood. Frame up a make shift big enclosure 8'by 3' or 4' high. Toss in his glass fronts from the t25 with just mirror mounts. Line the heck out of it with paper towels or puppy mats and see how she does. Obviously it won't last more than a week see how she does. If she doesn't push in a monster cage you know the route you need to go. She pushes then keep investigating.  Won't cost more than $30.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Her* damn I do it all the time. 

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_jmcrook_ (07-06-2018)

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## jmcrook

> If it was me (keep in mind I don't know much) I'd temp an enclosure. Go buy 3 or 4 4x8 sheets of junk particle board Pyle wood. Frame up a make shift big enclosure 8'by 3' or 4' high. Toss in his glass fronts from the t25 with just mirror mounts. Line the heck out of it with paper towels or puppy mats and see how she does. Obviously it won't last more than a week see how she does. If she doesn't push in a monster cage you know the route you need to go. She pushes then keep investigating.  Won't cost more than $30.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


I like the thinking here, I just cant get an 8 piece of anything in that room unless its modular, much less get it in my car. The air vents in the apt drop the ceiling to 7 in the hall and its a VERY tight turn to get to the snake room. It was a close squeeze trying to get her t25 in there


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## Stearns84

> I like the thinking here, I just cant get an 8 piece of anything in that room unless its modular, much less get it in my car. The air vents in the apt drop the ceiling to 7 in the hall and its a VERY tight turn to get to the snake room. It was a close squeeze trying to get her t25 in there
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Have home depot cut them down to for free. Piece them together to a monster 8'enclosure. Only need it to work for a little bit to see if the enclosure is the cause. 2x4 to join the pieces together if you have too. 

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_jmcrook_ (07-06-2018)

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## jmcrook

> Have home depot cut them down to for free. Piece them together to a monster 8'enclosure. Only need it to work for a little bit to see if the enclosure is the cause. 2x4 to join the pieces together if you have too. 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Only have Lowes here, last I checked their panel saw is still down. Has been for months. Closest Home Depot is like an hour and a half away. FML 


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## Stearns84

> Only have Lowes here, last I checked their panel saw is still down. Has been for months. Closest Home Depot is like an hour and a half away. FML 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Just need to play the system. Get a battery powered circular saw ($40 for a no name brand). Go home, charge the battery, go back a few days later, but the wood, cut it in the parking lot (use the 2x4 as a straight edge). Go home and build it. Blow off the saw and put it back in the box. Return it and tell them it didn't work right and they will credit your debit / credit card. I do that with odd size wrenches I need when working on the camaro.

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_jmcrook_ (07-06-2018)

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## jmcrook

> Just need to play the system. Get a battery powered circular saw ($40 for a no name brand). Go home, charge the battery, go back a few days later, but the wood, cut it in the parking lot (use the 2x4 as a straight edge). Go home and build it. Blow off the saw and put it back in the box. Return it and tell them it didn't work right and they will credit your debit / credit card. I do that with odd size wrenches I need when working on the camaro.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Yeah... well see. That might be a lot of hassle just to piss off my neighbors and landlord with building a giant crate in my apt.


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## Stearns84

> Yeah... well see. That might be a lot of hassle just to piss off my neighbors and landlord with building a giant crate in my apt.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Just tell them it's a coffin.  Hahaha

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_jmcrook_ (07-06-2018)

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## Sauzo

> Yeah... well see. That might be a lot of hassle just to piss off my neighbors and landlord with building a giant crate in my apt.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Does your landlord know you have the retics?

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## jmcrook

> Does your landlord know you have the retics?


She knows Ive got reptiles. Didnt ask me any more questions than that. Im seriously about to sell this animal. Came back home to a complete poop smeared cage and snake who has now torn a hole in the front of her gums only 4 days after eating. I hate this anymore 


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## Stearns84

> She knows Ive got reptiles. Didnt ask me any more questions than that. Im seriously about to sell this animal. Came back home to a complete poop smeared cage and snake who has now torn a hole in the front of her gums only 4 days after eating. I hate this anymore 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sorry dude.

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## Skyrivers

I hate your going through this. I almost say send her my way and let me figure it out and then send back to you. Truth is she just might want to be free. Snake proof the bathroom and leave her in there a couple of days and you will know if she just wants a larger space to live in. Is free and easy enough to do. If you decide to send her my way just PM me and we'll figure it out. Please keep in mind it will only be temporary and you will eventually get her back because I don't want to keep her I want you to have her.

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## jmcrook

> I hate your going through this. I almost say send her my way and let me figure it out and then send back to you. Truth is she just might want to be free. Snake proof the bathroom and leave her in there a couple of days and you will know if she just wants a larger space to live in. Is free and easy enough to do. If you decide to send her my way just PM me and we'll figure it out. Please keep in mind it will only be temporary and you will eventually get her back because I don't want to keep her I want you to have her.
> 
> Sent from my N9560 using Tapatalk


Not free when you rent and the animal smears poop in the walls or tears light fixtures from the walls (deposits), or easy enough when I need to use that bathroom daily to shower and such. Ever tried to poop in the same bathroom that is inhabited by a 10 25lb snake? Me either and I dont plan to make that part of a morning routine.
No offense, but if I havent figured it out over the last year+ of tearing my hair out trying every possible solution then I dont have great confidence in you being able to stop her pushing. Additionally Im pretty sure shes too big for FedEx and would have to be shipped delta dash if she ever leaves her home here.


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C.Marie (07-07-2018)

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## Skyrivers

I wish you well. So sorry you having struggles. Was just trying to help. 


> Not free when you rent and the animal smears poop in the walls or tears ligh fixtures from the walls (deposits), or easy enough when I need to use that bathroom daily to shower and such. 
> No offense, but if I havent figured it out over the last year+ of tearing my hair out trying every possible solution then I dont have great confidence in you being able to stop her pushing. Additionally Im pretty sure shes to big for FedEx and would have to be shipped delta dash if she ever leaves her home here.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jmcrook

> I wish you well. So sorry you having struggles. Was just trying to help. 
> 
> Sent from my N9560 using Tapatalk


I know, this is just the product of over a year of frustration coming to a head. I just need to try a few more things before deciding whether or not the relationship between me and this animal is fair to either of us anymore. Its causing me undue stress and frustration and its not her fault that I cant figure out what she needs. 


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C.Marie (07-07-2018),Gio (07-07-2018)

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## Skyrivers

Have you tried offering her a boy?

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## jmcrook

> Have you tried offering her a boy?
> 
> Sent from my N9560 using Tapatalk


Thats the only thing I havent tried aside from a room sized cage or feeding her a 4lb meal. Real close to tossing Gerald in her cage and see what happens 


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## Skyrivers

You have a be prepared if things go sideways if she rejected him. If you do it be smart about it and keep an eye on him. Never breed relics before but might be what she is looking for. 


> Thats the only thing I havent tried aside from a room sized cage or feeding her a 4lb meal. Real close to tossing Gerald in her cage and see what happens 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Sauzo

> She knows Ive got reptiles. Didnt ask me any more questions than that. Im seriously about to sell this animal. Came back home to a complete poop smeared cage and snake who has now torn a hole in the front of her gums only 4 days after eating. I hate this anymore 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Man that sucks. The poop smear part isnt too big of deal. I've had Rosey ho poocaso on her cage before too. Not quite sure how she managed to get poop on the ceiling as well lol. The hole in her gum part though sucks. You honestly have a lot more patience than i do.

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C.Marie (07-07-2018)

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## jmcrook

> Man that sucks. The poop smear part isnt too big of deal. I've had Rosey ho poocaso on her cage before too. Not quite sure how she managed to get poop on the ceiling as well lol. The hole in her gum part though sucks. You honestly have a lot more patience than i do.


Yeah the poo painting I can deal with. The incessant face destruction though has me about to throw in the towel. She went from being the most amazing animal Ive ever kept to an absolute nightmare. I just wish I could do something for her to make her happy. 


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## Gio

Dude,  Im super sorry to hear about this. 

Im bummed out.  Keep us posted. Wonder if you could place her and get discount or exchange on a smaller SD. 

Hope it turns around but you have done a lot so you dont need to feel like you failed   

Keep your chin up. Sending good vibes and hoping she just quits pushing.

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C.Marie (07-07-2018)

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## jmcrook

> Dude,  Im super sorry to hear about this. 
> 
> Im bummed out.  Keep us posted. Wonder if you could place her and get discount or exchange on a smaller SD. 
> 
> Hope it turns around but you have done a lot so you dont need to feel like you failed   
> 
> Keep your chin up. Sending good vibes and hoping she just quits pushing.


Thanks man. So sad to watch something youve raised for over two years completely destroying itself. Left a couple messages with the two closest exotic vets I can find that are 3.5 and 4 hours from me. Well see if they can get her in. Id really hate to have to give her up but this is currently an unsustainable keeping experience for both of us. 


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## Gio

> Thanks man. So sad to watch something youve raised for over two years completely destroying itself. Left a couple messages with the two closest exotic vets I can find that are 3.5 and 4 hours from me. Well see if they can get her in. Id really hate to have to give her up but this is currently an unsustainable keeping experience for both of us. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You speak well and from a standpoint of reason. 

I see you wanting the best for you, (not constantly stressed) and for the snake, (not destroying herself).

I am holding out hope but no matter how things end up i'm confident your decision will be the right one.

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_jmcrook_ (07-07-2018)

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## jmcrook

> You speak well and from a standpoint of reason. 
> 
> I see you wanting the best for you, (not constantly stressed) and for the snake, (not destroying herself).
> 
> I am holding out hope but no matter how things end up i'm confident your decision will be the right one.


Thank you brother. I want her to stay here more than anything. Aside from the pushing shes an absolute gentle giant. Even had a two year old neighbor kid playing with her a couple months ago and she was a total sweetheart with him. 
Drawing up cut plans for an 8x3x2 birch plywood cage in 4 sections right now. Not a cheap build but would be less than half the cost of buying a comparable manufactured cage. Hesitant to jump the gun on that just yet but I also know that if Lowes has their panel saw in order I could build that cage in a couple days or so. Thats the biggest I can build and still manage to move it into or out of the room if needed. 
Also backtracked the pushing records... this all started two years ago in October. The majority of the time Ive had her. 


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Gio (07-07-2018)

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## Gio

> Thank you brother. I want her to stay here more than anything. Aside from the pushing shes an absolute gentle giant. Even had a two year old neighbor kid playing with her a couple months ago and she was a total sweetheart with him. 
> Drawing up cut plans for an 8x3x2 birch plywood cage in 4 sections right now. Not a cheap build but would be less than half the cost of buying a comparable manufactured cage. Hesitant to jump the gun on that just yet but I also know that if Lowes has their panel saw in order I could build that cage in a couple days or so. Thats the biggest I can build and still manage to move it into or out of the room if needed. 
> Also backtracked the pushing records... this all started two years ago in October. The majority of the time Ive had her. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think eventually you'll get it figured out. 

The "handy" part of you is big!  

I am sure you'll skillfully design something that works!

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_jmcrook_ (07-07-2018)

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## jmcrook

> I think eventually you'll get it figured out. 
> 
> The "handy" part of you is big!  
> 
> I am sure you'll skillfully design something that works!


Good god lets hope so...
Priced materials for the build. Woof its gonna be pricey at that size. Probably $400 for everything if I use birch. Little under $300 if I use melamine but dont want to go that route with all the time that will be invested. Could also stay at 18 tall and then only need two sheets of wood vs 3. I think she wants the height though. Well see. Just trying to keep my options open


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_Stearns84_ (07-07-2018)

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## Stearns84

> Good god lets hope so...
> Priced materials for the build. Woof its gonna be pricey at that size. Probably $400 for everything if I use birch. Little under $300 if I use melamine but dont want to go that route with all the time that will be invested. Could also stay at 18 tall and then only need two sheets of wood vs 3. I think she wants the height though. Well see. Just trying to keep my options open
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What are you doing / plans for the doors?

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## jmcrook

> What are you doing / plans for the doors?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


If I actually build this thing then Im probably going to buy some E shaped door tracks like AP uses and then cut some 1/4 thick acrylic sliding doors. Part of me wants to make framed swinging doors though. That would of course add to cost and complication of the build.
Basically this design but deeper, taller, in two  4 sections, and with some nicer materials 
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=R35OoE8unc8 


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## Gio

Go at least 2 feet tall, taller if you can. Its hard to say, maybe a 7 foot wide by 3 deep and 3 tall?

Make her climb and make her busy. 

Of course spending $$ is the last thing you want, but I think you will make this thing and it will solve some of the problems, hopefully all!

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## jmcrook

> Go at least 2 feet tall, taller if you can. Its hard to say, maybe a 7 foot wide by 3 deep and 3 tall?
> 
> Make her climb and make her busy. 
> 
> Of course spending $$ is the last thing you want, but I think you will make this thing and it will solve some of the problems, hopefully all!


I would like to go taller but that would mean it must be assembled in that room and disassembled in order to get it back out. Standard doorway is about 30. I could go 8 long, 2 deep, and 3 tall. Basically one dimension has to be 2 or less to avoid completely disassembling to move it. My local Lowes has 3/8 pvc boards too... $15 more per sheet than birch but half the thickness of plywood. Just not sure about using thinner material for a huge build. Could add a simple frame for additional structure in key areas. This is going to have to be a very seriously thought out project with as much cash and time as it will call for if I go through with it 


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Gio (07-07-2018),_Stearns84_ (07-07-2018)

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## Stearns84

> I would like to go taller but that would mean it must be assembled in that room and disassembled in order to get it back out. Standard doorway is about 30. I could go 8 long, 2 deep, and 3 tall. Basically one dimension has to be 2 or less to avoid completely disassembling to move it. My local Lowes has 3/8 pvc boards too... $15 more per sheet than birch but half the thickness of plywood. Just not sure about using thinner material for a huge build. Could add a simple frame for additional structure in key areas. This is going to have to be a very seriously thought out project with as much cash and time as it will call for if I go through with it 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think I'm going to wait until the spring to build Gene's. I want to see how the temps are in the basement this year so I can see if I need to bump up my RHP. 

Good luck man, I really hope this helps her. You'll figure it out. You have made it two years and countless moves and she's been there. It'll just take you some time.

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_jmcrook_ (07-08-2018)

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## jmcrook

> I think I'm going to wait until the spring to build Gene's. I want to see how the temps are in the basement this year so I can see if I need to bump up my RHP. 
> 
> Good luck man, I really hope this helps her. You'll figure it out. You have made it two years and countless moves and she's been there. It'll just take you some time.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Lol Ive only actually moved twice since Ive had her. But thanks man! I really think shes just going to be a moderate meal every 5days kinda gal. Im gonna try that for a couple months and see how she does


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_Stearns84_ (07-08-2018)

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## Aedryan Methyus

Hi Jm,
I'm sorry to hear that you're having such a bad time with this beloved snake of yours. That really sucks! :Sad:  Fortunately, I haven't ever had this problem with either of my SDs yet (knock on wood!), but from what I understand it's a fairly common issue with Retics. I'm sure you've already experimented with everything regarding cage size, temperatures, humidity, prey size and feeding schedules, yeah? And, as has already been mentioned, the desire to breed can also cause them to push, but she shouldn't be sexually mature for 2 - 3 more years, should she? My male is definitely extremely active (and destructive) in his enclosure. I can't keep his tub dry (he's still in a 41 qt. rack), because for some reason the little stinker insists on keeping it soak and wet with the water from his water dish. From what I understand, cage destruction is also pretty common with Retics. Since Retics are such energetic, inquisitive and intelligent animals I have to wonder if it couldn't simply be boredom/desire to be handled that might cause them to push and/or destroy their cages? My boy especially is very sociable and LOVES being out and being handled! How often do you take your girl out and for how long?

I would highly recommend contacting Garrett Hartle of Reach Out Reptiles here in Pittsburgh. He specializes in SD Retics (exclusively) and seems to be one of the authorities on them these days. He's very friendly and helpful and i'm sure he would be happy to share his experience with you.

With regards to building your new enclosures, i'm curious why you wouldn't want to use PVC board instead of birch?

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## jmcrook

> Hi Jm,
> I'm sorry to hear that you're having such a bad time with this beloved snake of yours. That really sucks! Fortunately, I haven't ever had this problem with either of my SDs yet (knock on wood!), but from what I understand it's a fairly common issue with Retics. I'm sure you've already experimented with everything regarding cage size, temperatures, humidity, prey size and feeding schedules, yeah? And, as has already been mentioned, the desire to breed can also cause them to push, but she shouldn't be sexually mature for 2 - 3 more years, should she? My male is definitely extremely active (and destructive) in his enclosure. I can't keep his tub dry (he's still in a 41 qt. rack), because for some reason the little stinker insists on keeping it soak and wet with the water from his water dish. From what I understand, cage destruction is also pretty common with Retics. Since Retics are such energetic, inquisitive and intelligent animals I have to wonder if it couldn't simply be boredom/desire to be handled that might cause them to push and/or destroy their cages? My boy especially is very sociable and LOVES being out and being handled! How often do you take your girl out and for how long?
> 
> I would highly recommend contacting Garrett Hartle of Reach Out Reptiles here in Pittsburgh. He specializes in SD Retics (exclusively) and seems to be one of the authorities on them these days. He's very friendly and helpful and i'm sure he would be happy to share his experience with you.
> 
> With regards to building your new enclosures, i'm curious why you wouldn't want to use PVC board instead of birch?


I know this is a very long thread, but if you read back through it youll find the answers to every single question you just asked about. Ive tried it all. For almost two years now. Not trying to be rude, Ive just explored all of those issues in exhausting detail 


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## 350z

On a lighter note I like the perches you have mounted in her cage. Look like treated dock poles almost. Did I miss the info on those and how you have them mounted? Would like to steal that for my olives if you don't mind.

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## jmcrook

> On a lighter note I like the perches you have mounted in her cage. Look like treated dock poles almost. Did I miss the info on those and how you have them mounted? Would like to steal that for my olives if you don't mind.


Theyre stakes for keeping trees growing upright. Got them at Lowes. Mounted in the cage using 90 degree corner brackets. I stole the idea from Gio on here


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Gio (07-08-2018)

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## Aedryan Methyus

> I know this is a very long thread, but if you read back through it youll find the answers to every single question you just asked about. Ive tried it all. For almost two years now. Not trying to be rude, Ive just explored all of those issues in exhausting detail 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You've already contacted Garrett Hartle and asked him for advice? You just mentioned a couple posts ago about the possibility of putting a male in with her, but it's my understanding that female SD Retics aren't sexually mature until 4 - 5 years of age... You also just mentioned building her a new enclosure out of birch a couple of posts ago... Those were my only questions...

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## jmcrook

> You've already contacted Garrett Hartle and asked him for advice? You just mentioned a couple posts ago about the possibility of putting a male in with her, but it's my understanding that female SD Retics aren't sexually mature until 4 - 5 years of age... You also just mentioned building her a new enclosure out of birch a couple of posts ago... Those were my only questions...


Yeah Ive talked to Garrett twice. He just said lower temps and dont feed her for 2-3 weeks. When I said shed tear her face off after not eating for that long he basically just said huh, weird. 
Female retics are generally mature around 3 years or so. Garrett just prefers to wait until 4-5 years. 
I also mentioned that I did want to use pvc for a big cage but that Lowes only has 3/8 thick sheets. Not a lot of support for an 8 build. Well see though. Not sure I want to invest $4-500 in a cage that very well might not solve the issues here. Id just assume rehome the damn snake at that point. Ive already spent thousands of dollars trying to make her happy with no luck 


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## Sauzo

You know man, I hate to say it as i like my all my snakes a lot too but it might be time to cut Phyllis loose. I mean you have tried everything under the sun with no improvement other than keeping her in a food coma which isnt going to be good for her.

I personally dont think a bigger cage is going to do it and spending all the cash to build one and find out it didnt work is REALLY going to be aggravating. It might be Phyllis doesnt like AP cages as that is the only thing left but personally i cant see that being it.

I honestly have run out of ideas to offer. Maybe look for a smaller cage from a different manufacturer for cheap on CL or something and try that. If it works, then maybe build the monster cage and resell the smaller one from CL or give it to the boa.

Sorry for all the problems. I know what it likes when Caesar was going crazy during breeding season and pushing his face into hamburger  :Sad:

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C.Marie (07-08-2018)

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## C.Marie

To bad they don't make anti anxiety  pills for snakes, or maybe you need them by now, been reading your post but since I have no usefull comment I just kept quite, but wanted to tell you that you and Phyllis are in my prayers whatever you choice is please take comfort in knowing you did a fabulous job raising her and did far more and tolerated more than anyone , you can only do what you can do. ~Healing hugs from across the miles ~

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_jmcrook_ (07-08-2018)

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## jmcrook

> You know man, I hate to say it as i like my all my snakes a lot too but it might be time to cut Phyllis loose. I mean you have tried everything under the sun with no improvement other than keeping her in a food coma which isnt going to be good for her.
> 
> I personally dont think a bigger cage is going to do it and spending all the cash to build one and find out it didnt work is REALLY going to be aggravating. It might be Phyllis doesnt like AP cages as that is the only thing left but personally i cant see that being it.
> 
> I honestly have run out of ideas to offer. Maybe look for a smaller cage from a different manufacturer for cheap on CL or something and try that. If it works, then maybe build the monster cage and resell the smaller one from CL or give it to the boa.
> 
> Sorry for all the problems. I know what it likes when Caesar was going crazy during breeding season and pushing his face into hamburger


Im honestly thinking the same thing. Its just going to be such a hard decision to make and hard to actually sell her as well. Im not FedEx Reptile certified and shes too big for Ship Your Reptiles. But yeah, neither of us can keep this up. Its just not good for me or this snake. It makes me sad that I cant help her. 
Well see if I can get her in at either of these vets I left a message with. Maybe theres something wrong inside her face but I dont think thats the issue. Shes been like this since October 2016, as soon as I took the divider out of her T8 shes pushed almost constantly unless in a food coma. 


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## Sauzo

> Im honestly thinking the same thing. Its just going to be such a hard decision to make and hard to actually sell her as well. Im not FedEx Reptile certified and shes too big for Ship Your Reptiles. But yeah, neither of us can keep this up. Its just not good for me or this snake. It makes me sad that I cant help her. 
> Well see if I can get her in at either of these vets I left a message with. Maybe theres something wrong inside her face but I dont think thats the issue. Shes been like this since October 2016, as soon as I took the divider out of her T8 shes pushed almost constantly unless in a food coma. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I hear ya. I re homed Rango a couple weeks ago and it was sad seeing him go. Just do local only sales. Thats what i did through the local reptile FB page. Takes longer but will save you the headache of trying to Delta Dash Phyllis as i dont think FedEx is going to take that big of snake.

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## jmcrook

> I hear ya. I re homed Rango a couple weeks ago and it was sad seeing him go. Just do local only sales. Thats what i did through the local reptile FB page. Takes longer but will save you the headache of trying to Delta Dash Phyllis as i dont think FedEx is going to take that big of snake.


Yeah ship your reptiles has a max size of 8 or 4 in diameter. Phyllis is definitely too long and probably bigger than 4 diameter too. 
It would be the saddest thing ever to get rid of her. But I dont know if its sadder to see her smash her face up here. Her face looks like crap. That will also complicate trying to sell her. Im just so bummed right now


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## Sauzo

Yeah that sucks. I know you tried pretty much everything and i i thought you said you transported Phyllis in a christmas tree tub when you moved. If so, have you tried just keeping her in there for a few days to see if the change of material/caging causes her to stop pushing?

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C.Marie (07-10-2018)

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## jmcrook

> Yeah that sucks. I know you tried pretty much everything and i i thought you said you transported Phyllis in a christmas tree tub when you moved. If so, have you tried just keeping her in there for a few days to see if the change of material/caging causes her to stop pushing?


Ive only got 100qt hefty tubs from Lowes. Theyre like half the size of a Christmas tree tub. Could order one from iris and try it I guess. I did have her in a T8 for a couple days with no success.
Kinda loosing confidence in the ability of any theoretical solution to change her behavior at this point though. I know that sounds pretty defeatist but this animal is becoming more burden than I can handle in my life. Most big dogs arent even this much work and frustration. 


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## Sauzo

> Ive only got 100qt hefty tubs from Lowes. Theyre like half the size of a Christmas tree tub. Could order one from iris and try it I guess. I did have her in a T8 for a couple days with no success.
> Kinda loosing confidence in the ability of any theoretical solution to change her behavior at this point though. I know that sounds pretty defeatist but this animal is becoming more burden than I can handle in my life. Most big dogs arent even this much work and frustration. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well trying a christmas tree tub just to see if the change in cage from an AP is cheaper than building the 8 foot cage to find out she keeps pushing. 

And like i said, you have more patience than me. No way i could have lasted 2 years with the pushing. But at some point, if it just doesnt change and cant be resolved, it is time to move on. Just like a bad relationship, you love the person but being together is just toxic for both of you.

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C.Marie (07-10-2018),Gio (07-08-2018)

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## jmcrook

> Well trying a christmas tree tub just to see if the change in cage from an AP is cheaper than building the 8 foot cage to find out she keeps pushing. 
> 
> And like i said, you have more patience than me. No way i could have lasted 2 years with the pushing. But at some point, if it just doesnt change and cant be resolved, it is time to move on. Just like a bad relationship, you love the person but being together is just toxic for both of you.


Dude, thats exactly what this feels like right now. A toxic relationship.
Talking to another retic friend online right now and he said to feed her HEAVY. feed her like Im trying to kill her lol. Guess Im ordering 4lb+ rabbits and seeing how that goes


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## Sauzo

> Dude, thats exactly what this feels like right now. A toxic relationship.
> Talking to another retic friend online right now and he said to feed her HEAVY. feed her like Im trying to kill her lol. Guess Im ordering 4lb+ rabbits and seeing how that goes
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Probably will be a short term fix but keeping her in a food coma is just basically putting a band aid on a bullet wound. I mean feeding her a 4lb+ rabbit every 4-5 days is going to be bad for her and your wallet lol.

Good luck though but i really think, try a completely different enclosure color and type. That's why i said try the christmas tree tub. It is different color, different style and material and also smaller so you would be able to kill 3 birds with one stone. If that doesnt work, then other than keeping her in a food coma her whole life, i have no idea.

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Gio (07-08-2018),_jmcrook_ (07-08-2018)

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## jmcrook

> Probably will be a short term fix but keeping her in a food coma is just basically putting a band aid on a bullet wound. I mean feeding her a 4lb+ rabbit every 4-5 days is going to be bad for her and your wallet lol.
> 
> Good luck though but i really think, try a completely different enclosure color and type. That's why i said try the christmas tree tub. It is different color, different style and material and also smaller so you would be able to kill 3 birds with one stone. If that doesnt work, then other than keeping her in a food coma her whole life, i have no idea.


Might order an xmas tree tub soon but well see. She did always seem to do better with giant meals when she was smaller. Her current rats are the same size she was eating when she weighed 1/4 as much as she does now. 4-5lb rabbits would be like 5-6 rats in one shot. Throwing Hail Marys at this point


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## Sauzo

> Might order an xmas tree tub soon but well see. She did always seem to do better with giant meals when she was smaller. Her current rats are the same size she was eating when she weighed 1/4 as much as she does now. 4-5lb rabbits would be like 5-6 rats in one shot. Throwing Hail Marys at this point
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah. I thought the same with Caesar. But since he quit pushing for the most part, he has been doing ok with just a jumbo rat every 2 weeks. I mean so far it has only been 2 times but so far so good.

Definitely worth a shot though as there really isnt much else left. Try the tub and bigger meals and see what happens. Not like it could get worse, unfortunately.

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_jmcrook_ (07-08-2018)

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## jmcrook

> Probably will be a short term fix but keeping her in a food coma is just basically putting a band aid on a bullet wound. I mean feeding her a 4lb+ rabbit every 4-5 days is going to be bad for her and your wallet lol.


Oh, I should have clarified. Currently feeding 4-5 days but Im bumping down to Geralds jumbo rats for her. Hoping a big rabbit will keep her ass still for a week or so. If she demands 5 day feedings shes getting xl or jumbo. Figure if a jumbo lasts as long as a colossal then why waste food. With the exception of the rabbit experiment soon.


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_Sauzo_ (07-08-2018)

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## Stearns84

Have you tried to black out her enclosure where its pitch black? I thought you said a few months back you covered her enclosure did it help?

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## jmcrook

> Have you tried to black out her enclosure where its pitch black? I thought you said a few months back you covered her enclosure did it help?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


I did try that a while back but I dont know that it got totally dark in there for sure. Didnt really do much but I might cut some cardboard or mat board to fit right in the tracks over the doors and see if that helps. I can always tell when shes been at it because there will be spit smeared all over the doors where she pushes at them


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## Skyrivers

I could be way off and have said it before. I think is hormonal. She is wanting to breed and she is trying to get to your male. Then  comes the problem of what to do with the eggs if any come with the breeding. 

"After 4 - 5 weeks the male and female can be placed together at the cooler temperatures and mist the cage for a couple of weeks. This is done by adding the female to the males cage, as this simulates the female entering the males territory* as she looks for a mate*."

I keep seeing this over and over again in several articles. I am no expert but with her age and activity and a mature male around. It adds up to me.

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## Gio

> I could be way off and have said it before. I think is hormonal. She is wanting to breed and she is trying to get to your male. Then  comes the problem of what to do with the eggs if any come with the breeding. 
> 
> "After 4 - 5 weeks the male and female can be placed together at the cooler temperatures and mist the cage for a couple of weeks. This is done by adding the female to the males cage, as this simulates the female entering the males territory* as she looks for a mate*."
> 
> I keep seeing this over and over again in several articles. I am no expert but with her age and activity and a mature male around. It adds up to me.


Actually the male would be the one to make the fuss. It is rather rare for a female to roam and push for breeding reasons. They give off the pheromones and the males make the effort. The males will combat, stop eating and channel their energies into finding a mate.

Gerald is younger than his girl and I'm not even sure if he has hit full maturity.

JM has already moved cages around, separated them by room and kept her out of the cage. When she is out of the cage she typically is fine, and she isn't roaming looking for the male's cage according to JM.

I'd find it unlikely this is a female wanting to breed. In almost all species of animal, the males make the effort to breed and have to be accepted by the female.

It's a larger subject than that explanation however, Gerald would be the snake making the ruckus in this situation.

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_AbsoluteApril_ (07-09-2018),_jmcrook_ (07-09-2018)

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## Gio

> Actually the male would be the one to make the fuss. It is rather rare for a female to roam and push for breeding reasons. They give off the pheromones and the males make the effort. The males will combat, stop eating and channel their energies into finding a mate.
> 
> Gerald is younger than his girl and I'm not even sure if he has hit full maturity.
> 
> JM has already moved cages around, separated them by room and kept her out of the cage. When she is out of the cage she typically is fine, and she isn't roaming looking for the male's cage according to JM.
> 
> I'd find it unlikely this is a female wanting to breed. In almost all species of animal, the males make the effort to breed and have to be accepted by the female.
> 
> It's a larger subject than that explanation however, Gerald would be the snake making the ruckus in this situation.


At the bottom of the article are some DO's and DONT'S.
http://www.reptilesmagazine.com/Reti...on-Mccurley-3/

I think JM is on the right track with a larger cage.

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C.Marie (07-10-2018)

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## Stearns84

Not digging for updates, just hope you and Phyllis are hanging in there.

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C.Marie (07-10-2018),Gio (07-09-2018),_jmcrook_ (07-09-2018)

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## jmcrook

> Not digging for updates, just hope you and Phyllis are hanging in there.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Thanks man, I appreciate it.
Vet appointment scheduled for 10am Saturday in Birmingham. I hope its nothing but anything at this point will help give me peace of mind 


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C.Marie (07-11-2018),_Stearns84_ (07-10-2018)

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## Skyrivers

> Thanks man, I appreciate it.
> Vet appointment scheduled for 10am Saturday in Birmingham. I hope its nothing but anything at this point will help give me peace of mind 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Out thoughts are with you.

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_jmcrook_ (07-11-2018)

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## C.Marie

Fingers crossed that the vet can finally give you some much needed answers to your many questions and some peace to your mind and heart that you are AWESOME  , fantastic care giver (I think you need to remember that :Wink: )  . Best wishes always... ~Healing hugs from across the miles ~

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_jmcrook_ (07-11-2018)

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## Sauzo

Ask the vet for some reptile valium......and maybe human valium for you lol.

Good luck.

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C.Marie (07-11-2018),_jmcrook_ (07-11-2018),_Stearns84_ (07-11-2018)

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## Stearns84

> Ask the vet for some reptile valium......and maybe human valium for you lol.
> 
> Good luck.


If you could send me some too that would be great. 

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_jmcrook_ (07-11-2018),_Sauzo_ (07-11-2018)

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## jmcrook

Thanks for the thoughts and responses, yall. I really do appreciate it. Ill update as soon as I know anything further 


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## jmcrook

> Ask the vet for some reptile valium......and maybe human valium for you lol.
> 
> Good luck.


Ive already got some for me... I just call it bourbon lmao  


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C.Marie (07-12-2018),Gio (07-12-2018),_Sauzo_ (07-12-2018),_Stearns84_ (07-12-2018)

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## Stearns84

How's she doing?

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## jmcrook

> How's she doing?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Tore another hole in the opposite side of her gums. Worst its ever looked within the last week or so. Shes making me feel like an awful keeper, I cant imagine how she feels. Vet appt at 10am tomorrow. 


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C.Marie (07-14-2018)

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## Sauzo

Holy cow man. I will say confidently that it is not food related. I really think she might just not like AP cages. I mean that is the only thing you havent tried different.

Grats on being the first person i know who has a snake that is cage brand picky.

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C.Marie (07-14-2018)

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## jmcrook

> Holy cow man. I will say confidently that it is not food related. I really think she might just not like AP cages. I mean that is the only thing you havent tried different.
> 
> Grats on being the first person i know who has a snake that is cage brand picky.


I think theres tooth lodged in her gums or an infection from previous lost teeth that flares up when she pushes. Hopefully Ill find something out one way or another tomorrow morning. 


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C.Marie (07-14-2018)

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## Sauzo

Good luck and hopefully thats it and a quick fix. Would definitely be a 'doh' moment if it was. All this time pushing and it turns out its a lodged tooth that is pulled out in about 10 mins by a vet.

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C.Marie (07-14-2018),_jmcrook_ (07-14-2018)

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## Gio

This just sucks. 

Some retics just push. Its nothing you are doing wrong IMO. 

I rarely think snakes, unless starved have many food related issues but I stated that way back. 

Maybe just the internal part of the AP gives her something to push, but she maybe would in another enclosure just the same. 

At this point BIG cage is all I can come up with. 

What a crap way to start the weekend.  

Sorry brother,, this takes all the fun out of the hobby doesn It.  


Eventually things will head in the right direction for you both.

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C.Marie (07-14-2018),_jmcrook_ (07-14-2018)

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## C.Marie

Really hoping the vet nips this pushing thing in the butt , don't feel like an awful keeper  :Tears:  you have gorgeous babes,  and would do anything for them that makes a pretty special person in my book. Best wishes will keep you both in my prayers tonight  :Wink:

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_jmcrook_ (07-14-2018)

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## Sauzo

> This just sucks. 
> 
> Some retics just push. It’s nothing you are doing wrong IMO. 
> 
> I rarely think snakes, unless starved have many food related issues but I stated that way back. 
> 
> Maybe just the internal part of the AP gives her something to push, but she maybe would in another enclosure just the same. 
> 
> At this point BIG cage is all I can come up with. 
> ...


I beg to differ with Caesar and food. As a baby, he was so food driven. I know he pushed from wanting food and like mentioned, it might have been conditioned a little too as i fed him when he pushed. But now that he is an adult, the only time i caught him heavily pushing was when he wanted a girlfriend, or at least that is what i think as he pushed like crazy during breeding season and now he is pretty quiet and can go 2 weeks on a jumbo rat.

Heck when i asked Kris what he was eating when i got him, his response was 'he will eat anything offered. He is not picky in the least'. And he was right, Caesar ate within 2 hours of being unboxed and never stopped, even in shed, he would eat lol. Couldnt see a thing but he was happy to flail around with open mouth until he latched onto food lol.

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## Gio

> I beg to differ with Caesar and food. As a baby, he was so food driven. I know he pushed from wanting food and like mentioned, it might have been conditioned a little too as i fed him when he pushed. But now that he is an adult, the only time i caught him heavily pushing was when he wanted a girlfriend, or at least that is what i think as he pushed like crazy during breeding season and now he is pretty quiet and can go 2 weeks on a jumbo rat.
> 
> Heck when i asked Kris what he was eating when i got him, his response was 'he will eat anything offered. He is not picky in the least'. And he was right, Caesar ate within 2 hours of being unboxed and never stopped, even in shed, he would eat lol. Couldnt see a thing but he was happy to flail around with open mouth until he latched onto food lol.


Yours was a baby this is a different situation. 
Wallace ate everything offered as well at that age. This is a very large, mature animal not in the beginning stages. 

The snake in question here is being over fed to solve a problem.  Food is NOT the issue here and only stops pushing because energy is diverted to digest instead of push. If she is now conditioned, it still doesnt make food the answer. 

With most adult snakes in scenarios like this, as I stated, unless starved, more and more food is not the answer.

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## Stearns84

Good luck today. 

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_jmcrook_ (07-14-2018)

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## jmcrook

Heres the vet assessment. Tissue damage in the gums and stomatitis/mouth rot. 
Prescribed twice daily betadine swabs and twice daily silver sulfadiazine cream applied to oral wounds. Once daily Metacam injections for a week for pain management. Fortaz for the stomatits injected once every three days for three weeks. 
Probed at 8 scales deep which I cant seem to find definite confirmation as to whether thats male or female?
Took a few vet techs to hold her still to examine her mouth but other than that was well behaved. Dr. Burk thought she was great. Walked into the room and said so youve got a big sexy snake for me to see huh? Hahah, this wasnt even a big snake compared to a 180 burm she said she had an appointment for once upon a time. Took ten vet techs to carry it in. Also said she was sorry I had to drive so far (2.5hours) but that shes more than happy to see any of my critters anytime 



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_AbsoluteApril_ (07-16-2018),C.Marie (07-15-2018),Gio (07-14-2018),_Sauzo_ (07-14-2018),_Stearns84_ (07-14-2018),_tttaylorrr_ (07-14-2018)

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## Stearns84

> Heres the vet assessment. Tissue damage in the gums and stomatitis/mouth rot. 
> Prescribed twice daily betadine swabs and twice daily silver sulfadiazine cream applied to oral wounds. Once daily Metacam injections for a week for pain management. Fortaz for the stomatits injected once every three days for three weeks. 
> Probed at 8 scales deep which I cant seem to find definite confirmation as to whether thats male or female?
> Took a few vet techs to hold her still to examine her mouth but other than that was well behaved. Dr. Burk thought she was great. Walked into the room and said so youve got a big sexy snake for me to see huh? Hahah, this wasnt even a big snake compared to a 180 burm she said she had an appointment for once upon a time. Took ten vet techs to carry it in. Also said she was sorry I had to drive so far (2.5hours) but that shes more than happy to see any of my critters anytime 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Do you think the mouth rot has been there awhile? Maybe she's pushing to because of annoyance? Hope for the best, great job on getting her there. She's beautiful!

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_jmcrook_ (07-14-2018)

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## jmcrook

> Do you think the mouth rot has been there awhile? Maybe she's pushing to because of annoyance? Hope for the best, great job on getting her there. She's beautiful!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Thats my suspicion. I think shes been in pain and pushing because of it. 
Vet and her husband (also an exotics vet at another clinic) both said my husbandry looks and sounds very good and that technically she should be perfectly fine in her current cage size. Also said that maybe she just wants more room anyway and is being stubborn about it. Guess Ill start drawing up more serious plans for a two part 8x3x2 cage. Just want the best for my girl!
Unrelated, she weighed in at about 28lbs today. Getting a bit chunky 


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_Alicia_ (07-14-2018),C.Marie (07-15-2018),_Dxw425_ (07-14-2018),Gio (07-14-2018),_Sauzo_ (07-14-2018),_Stearns84_ (07-14-2018)

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## Gio

Good news brother!

I like the Vet contact you have there.

Things will come around now,,,, I caN FEEL IT!

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C.Marie (07-15-2018),_jmcrook_ (07-14-2018)

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## jmcrook

> Good news brother!
> 
> I like the Vet contact you have there.
> 
> Things will come around now,,,, I caN FEEL IT!


Lets hope so. Im a bit concerned about the depth of the probing. 8 scales could mean Phyllis is a male and smells Gerald and will persistently tear her/his face off. Either way, hoping the course of treatment offers some relief 


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C.Marie (07-15-2018),Gio (07-15-2018)

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## Skyrivers

So happy u have a direction to walk in. Best of luck and keep us updated with recovery. 

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_jmcrook_ (07-14-2018)

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## tttaylorrr

i've been quietly following, as i do with most of you giant owners , and i just want to say that i wish you both the best of luck! knowing you and your care, i'm sure she'll turn around in no time at all.

that photo is precious btw.

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_jmcrook_ (07-14-2018)

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## Gio

> Let’s hope so. I’m a bit concerned about the depth of the probing. 8 scales could mean Phyllis is a male and smells Gerald and will persistently tear her/his face off. Either way, hoping the course of treatment offers some relief 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well,

I had suspicions of that early on, and it would make sense, but, Mother Of Mercy!! A male pure Kalatoa at that size???

If she is a he you should feed him on the most minimal end of the spectrum as possible.

The vet picture really gave me a perspective of size. That's a BIG SD!!

Even still, you are doing the absolute best you can with the situation!

Keep me in the loop, and don't forget about that sweet BCC you have LOL!

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C.Marie (07-15-2018),_jmcrook_ (07-14-2018)

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## jmcrook

> Well,
> 
> I had suspicions of that early on, and it would make sense, but, Mother Of Mercy!! A male pure Kalatoa at that size???
> 
> If she is a he you should feed him on the most minimal end of the spectrum as possible.
> 
> The vet picture really gave me a perspective of size. That's a BIG SD!!
> 
> Even still, you are doing the absolute best you can with the situation!
> ...


I just talked to Daniel Solis, the breeder I got her from. He said hes pretty confident thats a female and especially at that size but that mistakes can happen. Suggested I try popping her sometime. Well see. I still think Phyllis is a lady snake but that was thrown into question as soon as I saw that probe slip 8 scales deep lol. I do know I guy with a 15 yr old 1.1 pair of adult kalatoas that are both over 10 he says, so its not impossible for a male to get that big. 
The picture with my vet is only slightly misleading as the perspective in the photo make the latter half of the snake seem larger than it is. Have no doubt though, shes quite large hah! Wish me luck with my first attempt at administering an injection solo tomorrow. I think it will be okay. 
And yes, I need to post in Leonards thread soon. He hung out the other night and watched half of The Lost World with me on the couch. Hes got the curiosity of a retic at the speed of a ball python. I think hell fit in quite well here 



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C.Marie (07-15-2018),Gio (07-15-2018)

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## KevinK

> I just talked to Daniel Solis, the breeder I got her from. He said he’s pretty confident that’s a female and especially at that size but that mistakes can happen. Suggested I try popping her sometime. We’ll see. I still think Phyllis is a lady snake but that was thrown into question as soon as I saw that probe slip 8 scales deep lol. I do know I guy with a 15 yr old 1.1 pair of adult kalatoas that are both over 10’ he says, so it’s not impossible for a male to get that big. 
> The picture with my vet is only slightly misleading as the perspective in the photo make the latter half of the snake seem larger than it is. Have no doubt though, she’s quite large hah! Wish me luck with my first attempt at administering an injection solo tomorrow. I think it will be okay. 
> And yes, I need to post in Leonard’s thread soon. He hung out the other night and watched half of The Lost World with me on the couch. He’s got the curiosity of a retic at the speed of a ball python. I think he’ll fit in quite well here 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


While I cant relate to Retics as I don't own one. There's a Youtuber under the name of "drthik1" (I think CALMpythons from here actually knows him) who breeds/owns a bunch of Burms and Retics ....he swears any male can reach the size of any female. That certainly didnt reflect what I had always been told by other breeders, but after looking as his collection I believe its possible now.

I second a vote on popping. The breeder whom I purchased my male Burm from had an incredibly large clutch so I was somewhat concerned that there was a chance he just did a quick probe and missed something. A popping on my end however showed two, long undeniable red hemipenes ...so I was comforted by that. Maybe Im an odd person for being happy at the thought of seeing my snake's junk lol....but I think you understand what I  saying.

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C.Marie (07-15-2018),_jmcrook_ (07-15-2018)

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## Sauzo

Unless you are familiar with popping, i wouldnt just 'try' it. You can hurt the snake if done wrong. If you are really worried, just find another vet and take Phyllis in for a probing. Shouldnt be too expensive. My vet charges $50 for an office visit and will probe an extra snake no charge if i am bringing in something else. Thats how i verified Dottie was a she. I was told she was a 'she' as she was popped as a baby by Dr Adolf Maas who is the local be all end all reptile vet in the area. But i wanted to make sure so when i had to take Harley in for a checkup, i just dragged Dottie along for a quick probing and the vet confirmed she is a she.

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_jmcrook_ (07-15-2018)

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## Zincubus

> I just talked to Daniel Solis, the breeder I got her from. He said hes pretty confident thats a female and especially at that size but that mistakes can happen. Suggested I try popping her sometime. Well see. I still think Phyllis is a lady snake but that was thrown into question as soon as I saw that probe slip 8 scales deep lol. I do know I guy with a 15 yr old 1.1 pair of adult kalatoas that are both over 10 he says, so its not impossible for a male to get that big. 
> The picture with my vet is only slightly misleading as the perspective in the photo make the latter half of the snake seem larger than it is. Have no doubt though, shes quite large hah! Wish me luck with my first attempt at administering an injection solo tomorrow. I think it will be okay. 
> And yes, I need to post in Leonards thread soon. He hung out the other night and watched half of The Lost World with me on the couch. Hes got the curiosity of a retic at the speed of a ball python. I think hell fit in quite well here 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If you do try popping her .... be sure to film it and upload it here please ..
I'm at a loose end now the WestWorld series has ended ..

 :Smile: 


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C.Marie (07-15-2018)

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## Gio

> if you do try popping her .... Be sure to film it and upload it here please ..
> I'm at a loose end now the westworld series has ended ..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sent from my iphone using tapatalk pro


lol!

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Zincubus (07-15-2018)

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## AbsoluteApril

I would think she got the mouth rot *from* rubbing, not rubbing because of it but I know that would not be good news so I REALLY hope it's not the case. Hopefully getting this all cured up fixes the issues. She might get so grumpy with all the manhandling and gum rubbing, hopefully all goes well. That's awesome you found such a great vet, shame she's so far away. You're such a great keeper to do so much for this retic that is obviously becoming a headache. I really hope she knocks out the pushing. I wish I had more ideas to offer.

8 scales would make me think male but not for sure... eep seems like you'd need a helper to try to pop a snake that big! 

Wishing you both well

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Gio (07-16-2018),_jmcrook_ (07-16-2018)

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## jmcrook

> I would think she got the mouth rot *from* rubbing, not rubbing because of it but I know that would not be good news so I REALLY hope it's not the case. Hopefully getting this all cured up fixes the issues. She might get so grumpy with all the manhandling and gum rubbing, hopefully all goes well. That's awesome you found such a great vet, shame she's so far away. You're such a great keeper to do so much for this retic that is obviously becoming a headache. I really hope she knocks out the pushing. I wish I had more ideas to offer.
> 
> 8 scales would make me think male but not for sure... eep seems like you'd need a helper to try to pop a snake that big! 
> 
> Wishing you both well


Yeah my theory is that the pushing caused the mouth rot, which in turn irritated her, causing more pushing, which sustained the mouth rot, causing more irritation and pushing, creating a vicious cycle. 
She certainly isnt a fan the injections or being restrained to apply the cream to her face, but surprisingly isnt overly grumpy afterwards. Just slithers back into the cage and sulks in the corner or on her shelf. 
8scales also makes me curious if shes male but Daniel Solis said at her size for her age hes pretty confident its a female. And popping her would certainly be a two perfect or more job. 
I really hope she bounces back well and knocks off the pushing, shes doing alright so far but she did eat only 4 days ago. Ive invested so much time, effort, and $ in this animal that Id hate to have to rehome her. Id be pretty crushed. 


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C.Marie (07-16-2018),Gio (07-16-2018),_tttaylorrr_ (07-17-2018)

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## Sauzo

Good luck man. Fingers crossed.

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Gio (07-16-2018),_jmcrook_ (07-16-2018)

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## Tigerhawk

Im sure you are on the path to beating this. I bet when you pop her, she will be a he. Thats pretty deep to be a female on that scale count.

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## Skyrivers

You are doing great! "Just push through it." You will be fine. 

Oops! LOL. Hope that made you laugh. 




> Yeah my theory is that the pushing caused the mouth rot, which in turn irritated her, causing more pushing, which sustained the mouth rot, causing more irritation and pushing, creating a vicious cycle. 
> She certainly isnt a fan the injections or being restrained to apply the cream to her face, but surprisingly isnt overly grumpy afterwards. Just slithers back into the cage and sulks in the corner or on her shelf. 
> 8scales also makes me curious if shes male but Daniel Solis said at her size for her age hes pretty confident its a female. And popping her would certainly be a two perfect or more job. 
> I really hope she bounces back well and knocks off the pushing, shes doing alright so far but she did eat only 4 days ago. Ive invested so much time, effort, and $ in this animal that Id hate to have to rehome her. Id be pretty crushed. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## jmcrook

Chatting more on the phone with my vet. Shes been talking about Phyllis with another exotics expert and they both seem curious if shes just still hungry. She didnt think Phyllis seemed overweight when I brought her in, which is a relief to me. I should have a box of 4-6lb rabbits showing up this week. One of them would be the equivalent of 5 leaner meatier rats all in one shot. Gotta find a local source though. Rodent pro aint cheap and monster feeders never responded after I placed an order. I wont beg anyone to take my business if they are fine without it.

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_Sauzo_ (07-17-2018),_Stearns84_ (07-17-2018)

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## Gio

> Chatting more on the phone with my vet. Shes been talking about Phyllis with another exotics expert and they both seem curious if shes just still hungry. She didnt think Phyllis seemed overweight when I brought her in, which is a relief to me. I should have a box of 4-6lb rabbits showing up this week. One of them would be the equivalent of 5 leaner meatier rats all in one shot. Gotta find a local source though. Rodent pro aint cheap and monster feeders never responded after I placed an order. I wont beg anyone to take my business if they are fine without it.


Hmmmmmmm,,,,

And that's how I ended my quest with Monster Cages.

That's a bummer, but I am not surprised.

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C.Marie (07-18-2018),_jmcrook_ (07-17-2018)

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## jmcrook

Just refused food for the first time in her life. And when she ate last week she didnt even strike. 
Hrmmm... 


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## Sauzo

> Just refused food for the first time in her life. And when she ate last week she didnt even strike. 
> Hrmmm... 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Video or it didnt happen lol.

Well i dont really find it surprising with all the meds she is on. Rosey refused for her first time in like 6 years when she was on fortaz injections.

Snakes are weird. Today, i went to feed Gina and she acted like she didnt want food. Then the second i started to move the weaned rat away from her, she went bananas and lunged at it lol. And Luna finally ate a rat. Took me waiting for 3 weeks for her to get good and hungry and then she still struck it, coiled it and then smelled in and got scared. So it seems with her, if you come at her with a rat, she freaks out but if you lay it on a piece of cardboard, she will come over and eat it.

Then there is Dottie who hasnt eaten for 6 months yet just shed last night.....

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_Stearns84_ (07-19-2018)

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## jmcrook

And shes still prowling the cage and still pushing. I could very well lose my mind at any moment with this activity anymore. I dont know that I can keep dealing with this if this is how keeping this animal going to be. 


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## Sauzo

> And shes still prowling the cage and still pushing. I could very well lose my mind at any moment with this activity anymore. I dont know that I can keep dealing with this if this is how keeping this animal going to be. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Man that sucks. I think the only thing you havent tried is a different style cage or maybe a christmas tree tub.

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## Sauzo

As much as i hate to say it, maybe it might be time to think about taking Daniel up on his offer to buy back Phyllis except that shipping her Delta is going to be kind of spendy. Then throw Gerald in the T25 and the boa in the T10.

There comes a point that you just gotta throw in the towel for the benefit of you your sanity and Phyllis' face. Although i know how hard that can be.....as you know.

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## Skyrivers

I talked to a breeder about this and went through the full details and let him read most of the post. He said if a female is pushing like this the only thing that will help is food, food, and more food. Not saying he is correct but was his opinion. He said that he had one girl that was an exception and she was looking to breed. She was the only one he ever saw that pushed to breed. 

I am not sure with everything and wish you the best. Keep caring for her. Get her well as you can. You can figure it out I am sure.

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## Gio

> I talked to a breeder about this and went through the full details and let him read most of the post. He said if a female is pushing like this the only thing that will help is food, food, and more food. Not saying he is correct but was his opinion. He said that he had one girl that was an exception and she was looking to breed. She was the only one he ever saw that pushed to breed. 
> 
> I am not sure with everything and wish you the best. Keep caring for her. Get her well as you can. You can figure it out I am sure.


Totally disagree.  
Typical thought process of breeders that pump females to the gills. She is an adult and fed almost every 4 days. Some mammals in the wild dont even eat that often. 

Some retics just push. The fact JM can open the cage and she sits and chills signals something. 
More and more food is a bandage that will cause another problem down the road. 

Shes in good condition and has been cared for perfectly IMO.  

Feeding stops pushing because of diverted energy to digestion. 

Thats not the answer especially every 4 days. 

If he was under fed shed look a lot different.

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## Skyrivers

> Totally disagree.  
> Typical thought process of breeders that pump females to the gills. She is an adult and fed almost every 4 days. Some mammals in the wild dont even eat that often. 
> 
> Some retics just push. The fact JM can open the cage and she sits and chills signals something. 
> More and more food is a bandage that will cause another problem down the road. 
> 
> Shes in good condition and has been cared for perfectly IMO.  
> 
> Feeding stops pushing because of diverted energy to digestion. 
> ...


I was just relaying information. I don't think he is doing anything wrong. I agree Kalatoa is healthy and looks great.

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## Gio

> I was just relaying information. I don't think he is doing anything wrong. I agree Kalatoa is healthy and looks great.


I know. I saw you were just passing info. Not really directing that at you. More so at the idea that reptiles of this type are in need of constant food. 

Hope you didn’t take offense.

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## jmcrook

Finally got the rest of my Ceftazidime for Phyllis from the vet. She hates all of this so much but is being as good a sport as she can. Also going into shed right now. Hoping for some good healing action during her shed cycle. 
Also, Animal Plastics FINALLY got back to me almost a month after asking for a quote on a modular 8 cage. They wont/cant do expandable/connecting cages. Guess Ill eventually build Phyllis a mammoth enclosure 8x3x2. 


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Gio (07-22-2018),_Stearns84_ (07-21-2018),_tttaylorrr_ (07-21-2018)

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## Stearns84

Seems very strange as your not asking for some crazy design. 

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Gio (07-24-2018)

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## jmcrook

> Seems very strange as your not asking for some crazy design. 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Right?! I think it has more to do with their current work load and lead times. Id love to continue supporting their business but I want an 8 cage and theres no way in hell I can get that into it out of the snake room once assembled. Really hoping that once Phylliss face is healed up shell stop pushing so much and maybe I wont need an 8 cage. 


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Gio (07-22-2018),_Stearns84_ (07-22-2018)

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## C.Marie

Have you checked out Serpentine Obsessions they have gorgeous pvc enclosure as well maybe they can help? Glad Phyllis is going along as well as can be expected,  best wishes always  :Wink:

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_jmcrook_ (07-22-2018)

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## jmcrook

> Have you checked out Serpentine Obsessions they have gorgeous pvc enclosure as well maybe they can help? Glad Phyllis is going along as well as can be expected,  best wishes always


Their cages are beautiful! However the 8 footers are significantly more expensive than AP cages and not offered in a 2 height either. Im going to try and hold off on cage upgrades until her face is healed and see if she even needs a much bigger cage. Gerald definitely needs a bigger enclosure so that I can give his cage to the boa constrictor though 


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C.Marie (07-23-2018),Gio (07-22-2018),_MR Snakes_ (12-13-2018)

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## Stearns84

How Phyllis and yourself holding up?

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## jmcrook

> How Phyllis and yourself holding up?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


She really hates the twice daily mouth cleaning. Shes pissed on me at least three times in protest. Still super swollen top lips but it seems, I think, that the lesions are healing up. Supposed to keep applying the silver silvadiazine cream twice a day until its healed. 5 more rounds of fortaz injections to go. Those are getting slightly easier but still are a challenge to do solo. Shes in shed right now and hasnt really pushed much if at all since having gone to the vet. 
Still a bummer to see her looking the way she does but at least shes not activity destroying herself at the moment so I guess thats a positive development. Once she starts taking food again, hopefully after she sheds, Ill offer a sizeable rat and then Ive got 4-5.5lb rabbits to offer as well. Chest freezer was a great investment 


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_MR Snakes_ (12-13-2018),_Stearns84_ (07-25-2018)

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## Skyrivers

> She really hates the twice daily mouth cleaning. Shes pissed on me at least three times in protest. Still super swollen top lips but it seems, I think, that the lesions are healing up. Supposed to keep applying the silver silvadiazine cream twice a day until its healed. 5 more rounds of fortaz injections to go. Those are getting slightly easier but still are a challenge to do solo. Shes in shed right now and hasnt really pushed much if at all since having gone to the vet. 
> Still a bummer to see her looking the way she does but at least shes not activity destroying herself at the moment so I guess thats a positive development. Once she starts taking food again, hopefully after she sheds, Ill offer a sizeable rat and then Ive got 4-5.5lb rabbits to offer as well. Chest freezer was a great investment 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Happy to see some improvement. Best wishes bud.

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_jmcrook_ (07-30-2018)

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## 67temp

How's queen Phyllis doing?

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_jmcrook_ (07-30-2018)

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## jmcrook

> How's queen Phyllis doing?


Thanks for checking in. Just gave her the 4th of 7 rounds of fortaz injections right now. Man she hates those. 
Aside from that I did find two broken loose teeth and pulled them. One on both sides of her top gums a few days ago when applying her silver sulfadiazine cream. Looks like things are healing up. Shes also deeeeep in shed and hasnt pushed at all in like two weeks so that helps minimize some facial trauma from flaring up. 
Hopefully after she sheds shell have an appetite again. I think her face just hurt too much to eat last time I offered. Ill offer either jumbo or colossal rat, and then slowly work up to the 4lb rabbit Ive got on deck. Want her to be pretty well healed before giving prey that big


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_AbsoluteApril_ (07-30-2018),C.Marie (08-04-2018),_MR Snakes_ (12-13-2018),_Sauzo_ (07-31-2018),_Stearns84_ (07-30-2018)

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## Skyrivers

You have my respect. I know has been a tough road. Happy you have not given up on her.




> Thanks for checking in. Just gave her the 4th of 7 rounds of fortaz injections right now. Man she hates those. 
> Aside from that I did find two broken loose teeth and pulled them. One on both sides of her top gums a few days ago when applying her silver sulfadiazine cream. Looks like things are healing up. Shes also deeeeep in shed and hasnt pushed at all in like two weeks so that helps minimize some facial trauma from flaring up. 
> Hopefully after she sheds shell have an appetite again. I think her face just hurt too much to eat last time I offered. Ill offer either jumbo or colossal rat, and then slowly work up to the 4lb rabbit Ive got on deck. Want her to be pretty well healed before giving prey that big
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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_jmcrook_ (07-30-2018)

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## jmcrook

Big girl shed yesterday and ate again for the first time in three weeks, with great enthusiasm I might add. Face is healing up but still a little puffy and swollen. I think shed been in some pain up until recently. Would explain her turning down food two weeks ago and not striking her previous meal.



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C.Marie (08-04-2018),_Dxw425_ (08-04-2018),Gio (08-05-2018),_Stearns84_ (08-04-2018)

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## Dxw425

Is she finished with her injections?

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## jmcrook

> Is she finished with her injections?


One more tomorrow and one Wednesday. Im also like halfway through the tube of silver sulfadiazine cream and was told to use that twice daily until healed. Its looking much better after I found and pulled the two broken teeth. Shes definitely getting REAL sick of me grabbing her by the head twice a day to clean her and such. Hopefully not too much longer. Getting ready to get her an 8 cage too 


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C.Marie (08-04-2018),_Dxw425_ (08-04-2018),_Stearns84_ (08-04-2018)

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## EL-Ziggy

Glad to see her healing well and still growing jmc. She's a beautiful girl.

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C.Marie (08-04-2018),_jmcrook_ (08-04-2018)

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## jmcrook

> Glad to see her healing well and still growing jmc. She's a beautiful girl.


Thanks buddy! Honestly Im hoping shes slowing a bit on the growing but shes a very manageable snake for her size either way. 


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C.Marie (08-04-2018),_EL-Ziggy_ (08-04-2018),Gio (08-05-2018),_Stearns84_ (08-04-2018)

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## C.Marie

Look at Phyllis looking all fabulous after a nice bath and fresh coat of paint,  so happy to hear things are going pretty smoothly for you both, you deserve it :Good Job:  not many people would put their own needs aside and work as hard as you have , you truly are an inspiration to those of us who long to get a reticulated python  thank you so much for taking us along on the journey,  best wishes always..

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## Stearns84

> Big girl shed yesterday and ate again for the first time in three weeks, with great enthusiasm I might add. Face is healing up but still a little puffy and swollen. I think shed been in some pain up until recently. Would explain her turning down food two weeks ago and not striking her previous meal.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm really glad she is doing better. I really wish I could get a small pool in my enclosure!

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_MR Snakes_ (12-13-2018)

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## jmcrook

> I'm really glad she is doing better. I really wish I could get a small pool in my enclosure!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Thanks man! Now that shes done being in shed shes really starting to put up a fight about having her mouth cleaned and ointment applied. Not very fun for either of us. 
Go with a 30 deep cage and these concrete mixing tubs from Lowes are perfect. Im using one as a water bowl and another upside down with a hole in it as a hide.
Bonus pic of her colors fairly fired up before tonights topical treatments 



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C.Marie (08-09-2018),Gio (08-05-2018),_MR Snakes_ (12-13-2018),_Stearns84_ (08-04-2018)

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## jmcrook

5 days past feeding day. Peed all over the hallway last night and then pooped in her pool and climbed into it this morning 🤮
Cleaned up the poop soup and gave her the final fortaz injection. Currently curled up in her pool. No pushing as of now. Hoping that having a large enough place to soak recently and having three broken teeth pulled from her face is solving the pushing issue. Cross your fingers with me


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_AbsoluteApril_ (08-08-2018),C.Marie (08-09-2018),_Dxw425_ (08-08-2018),_EL-Ziggy_ (08-08-2018),Gio (08-08-2018),_MR Snakes_ (12-13-2018),_Stearns84_ (08-08-2018)

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## Stearns84

> 5 days past feeding day. Peed all over the hallway last night and then pooped in her pool and climbed into it this morning 🤮
> Cleaned up the poop soup and gave her the final fortaz injection. Currently curled up in her pool. No pushing as of now. Hoping that having a large enough place to soak recently and having three broken teeth pulled from her face is solving the pushing issue. Cross your fingers with me
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's great!

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_jmcrook_ (08-08-2018)

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## jmcrook

Shes has now pooped in her water twice today. Never done this before in the 2.5yrs Ive cared for her. No signs of pushing though so I guess Ill take it lol


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C.Marie (08-09-2018),Gio (08-09-2018),_MR Snakes_ (12-13-2018),_Stearns84_ (08-09-2018)

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## C.Marie

Someone is trying her best to imitate a bird me thinks that what my cocktail would do every time I gave fresh water it was thanks for the drink poop  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  such a silly girl but yeah much better than mashing up her beautiful face.

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_jmcrook_ (08-09-2018)

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## 67temp

> 5 days past feeding day. Peed all over the hallway last night and then pooped in her pool and climbed into it this morning 
> Cleaned up the poop soup and gave her the final fortaz injection. Currently curled up in her pool. No pushing as of now. Hoping that having a large enough place to soak recently and having three broken teeth pulled from her face is solving the pushing issue. Cross your fingers with me
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


She's looking good! How long do you think the teeth have been broken? Was it lower teeth stuck in the upper jaw or was it teeth that had broken but were still being held in place by the gums?

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C.Marie (08-09-2018)

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## Skyrivers

I am seriously wondering if it was the broke teeth that caused the pushing or the pushing that caused the broke teeth. I know if I had a tooth ache I would be climbing the walls for relief.

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C.Marie (08-09-2018)

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## jmcrook

> She's looking good! How long do you think the teeth have been broken? Was it lower teeth stuck in the upper jaw or was it teeth that had broken but were still being held in place by the gums?


It was three teeth in her upper jaw still lodged in her gum tissue. One just kind of fell out when I was applying her silvadiazine cream, the other two were noticeably loose but had to be pulled with tweezers. Hard to say how long theyve been broken but I feel like theyd been bugging her for at least a month. This was about a week ago that I pulled the third tooth. Seems to be well on the mend now. 


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C.Marie (08-09-2018)

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## jmcrook

> I am seriously wondering if it was the broke teeth that caused the pushing or the pushing that caused the broke teeth. I know if I had a tooth ache I would be climbing the walls for relief.


Hard to say. What I do know is that she would almost always push as soon as she passed her previous meal and would keep pushing until fed again. She pooped yesterday and has not pushed at all last night! I really hope this means were in the home stretch 


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C.Marie (08-09-2018),Gio (08-09-2018)

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## Tigerhawk

I hope so. Im really hoping your problems with her are over.

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_jmcrook_ (08-09-2018)

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## Skyrivers

> Hard to say. What I do know is that she would almost always push as soon as she passed her previous meal and would keep pushing until fed again. She pooped yesterday and has not pushed at all last night! I really hope this means were in the home stretch 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This makes me wonder if after feeding they are less sensitive to pain till they finish digesting? IDK. Just one of the silly things I think about in these situations. 

Here is the complete thought here. 

1. Issue with teeth hurt so she is going nuts. 
2. Eats and food coma sets in and is less sensitive to the tooth pain. 
3. Pain comes back and rampage begins again. 
4. Gets fed again because of pushing and food coma provides temporary relief. 


All speculation but it might carry some weight. I would add checking teeth or other painful health issues to check when pushing begins. 

Best wishes with her.

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## jmcrook

Was pushing a bit earlier tonight. Sure, 7 days since last feeding and it was only a jumbo rat. Thawed her a rat right now, blatantly uninterested in food. Temps are 78-84. Humidity 75%. Has big hide and same size water bowl. Climbing options. You name it. No idea what her deal is. Only thing I still havent tried is breeding her or an 8 cage which is on the way. 


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_MR Snakes_ (12-13-2018),_Stearns84_ (08-13-2018)

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## Skyrivers

> Was pushing a bit earlier tonight. Sure, 7 days since last feeding and it was only a jumbo rat. Thawed her a rat right now, blatantly uninterested in food. Temps are 78-84. Humidity 75%. Has big hide and same size water bowl. Climbing options. You name it. No idea what her deal is. Only thing I still haven’t tried is breeding her or an 8’ cage which is on the way. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Is her face and teeth all healed up?

You will figure it out. Keep working on it.

I guess try the 8ft cage before breeding but who knows at this point? Breeding was my first guess but you have the cage on the way already and that doesn't require dealing with eggs or baby retics.

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## jmcrook

> Is her face and teeth all healed up?
> 
> You will figure it out. Keep working on it.
> 
> I guess try the 8ft cage before breeding but who knows at this point? Breeding was my first guess but you have the cage on the way already and that doesn't require dealing with eggs or baby retics.


Nope. Still swollen. Wounds not as bad looking though.
Paired her and Gerald the other night. He was way into it. Her not so much. New cage should hopefully be here in a couple weeks


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## Skyrivers

If first time might take a couple of attempts to get her use to the idea of being close to another snake. What did she do? Hide from him?


> Nope. Still swollen. Wounds not as bad looking though.
> Paired her and Gerald the other night. He was way into it. Her not so much. New cage should hopefully be here in a couple weeks
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jmcrook

Hide from him?! Not hardly... 
bucked coils, wagged her tail, gaping vent, peed all over. Very standard retic female signs of saying nope 


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Gio (08-15-2018)

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## Skyrivers

> Hide from him?! Not hardly... 
> bucked coils, wagged her tail, gaping vent, peed all over. Very standard retic female signs of saying nope 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well that is a clear no! I think you can check that box off the list. Best wishes on solving this.

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## jmcrook

Third refused meal in a row. Wont eat, wont breed, wont stop pushing... this is my hell right now. Seriously considering selling her. 


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## Gio

> Third refused meal in a row. Wont eat, wont breed, wont stop pushing... this is my hell right now. Seriously considering selling her. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hey man,

Hold off until you get the new cage. If that doesn't change things, I fully support your thought to sell or place her. Maybe a trade for another? 

Not that you need a go ahead from me, but I know somewhat know how you feel. I've been a bit irritated with Wallace since he hit his adult size.  Lately his little, male brain makes him a bit loopy. He had a go at me today even after I tapped him with the hook. The situation was still my fault as I know I have to get him moving the other direction completely before trying to remove him. 

I finally got hold of him, and he did his damn tail whip and emptied half the substrate out of his cage onto the floor.

After that, he was fine, however I started to wonder if the hassle of dealing with him was worth it.

I guess the point being here is this. We all have limits, and other obligations. Most of us, I would assume have other hobbies and other aspects of life to channel our energies.

You are still getting grounded in your teaching/educating career and don't have "helpers" at the dial of a phone.

If that new cage doesn't fix things, you've covered it all and should not have to have a hobby become a life stress inducing situation.

Good luck brother!

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_jmcrook_ (08-15-2018)

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## jmcrook

> Hey man,
> 
> Hold off until you get the new cage. If that doesn't change things, I fully support your thought to sell or place her. Maybe a trade for another? 
> 
> Not that you need a go ahead from me, but I know somewhat know how you feel. I've been a bit irritated with Wallace since he hit his adult size.  Lately his little, male brain makes him a bit loopy. He had a go at me today even after I tapped him with the hook. The situation was still my fault as I know I have to get him moving the other direction completely before trying to remove him. 
> 
> I finally got hold of him, and he did his damn tail whip and emptied half the substrate out of his cage onto the floor.
> 
> After that, he was fine, however I started to wonder if the hassle of dealing with him was worth it.
> ...


Thanks Gio. I talked on the phone with my vet earlier. She said she and her husband both have been trying to figure out what Phylliss deal could be. I mentioned my theory that it could be an infection in her jaw bone(s) that we just cant detect without X-rays. She thinks its worth a look if thats what I want to try. Will probably have to be the weekend after this upcoming one, with fall semester starting and me being in a new role at the university on top of the fact that this vet is a 2.5hr drive for me. She said shed bring her husband to her clinic and we can all put our heads together and maybe try X-rays and such. 
Shy of trying the huge cage I just dont see how it can be husbandry related with how many variables have been addressed. If cage or X-rays cant find or solve the issue I might just have to throw in the towel. Id be devastated but this behavior is affecting every other aspect of my day to day life anymore, and I just cant deal with it. 
I still love the species but just cant help but wonder if I just with my luck got the worlds most troublesome super dwarf. 
Ill keep ya posted 


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Gio (08-15-2018),_MR Snakes_ (12-13-2018),_Stearns84_ (08-16-2018)

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## Stearns84

How's Phyllis?

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## jmcrook

> How's Phyllis?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Still pushing and still wont eat. Has only eaten one jumbo rat in the last 5 weeks. Going to offer food again tomorrow. Mouth still swollen and bruised looking. Off hours vet appointment Sunday with my vet and her vet husband. Somethings gotta give eventually, right? 


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## 67temp

Does she show any interest in the rat?

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## jmcrook

> Does she show any interest in the rat?


None at all. Actively avoided it the last few attempts 


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## Skyrivers

When does the new cage arrive? Hope a change in environment will help he feel better and safer. Just want her relief to happen then go into a new place and associate the relief with new digs that makes her happy again. IDK what to advise at this point. Best wishes.

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## Skyrivers

How did the vet appointment go?

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## jmcrook

Waiting to hear back about a couple tissue cultures. Found another broken tooth as well 


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## Skyrivers

Calcium deficiency? IDK just hope you can figure it out. 


> Waiting to hear back about a couple tissue cultures. Found another broken tooth as well 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jmcrook

Definite mass/abscess development in her right gum tissue. Vet is out of town for a week. Referred to another vet in Birmingham. 2pm appointment Friday to have abscess removed. This had sure better offer the two of us some relief from this nonsense. Third long commute vet trip in two months. Will be a collective 13+ hours driving to and from



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_MR Snakes_ (12-13-2018)

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## Skyrivers

Wow. Looks so painful. How do they deal with those? Drain with needle and syring? 

Hope she gets better soon. 

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## jmcrook

> Wow. Looks so painful. How do they deal with those? Drain with needle and syring? 
> 
> Hope she gets better soon. 
> 
> Sent from my N9560 using Tapatalk


Incision, remove abscess, and clean. Reptile puss is not liquid and as such cannot be drained.


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_Dxw425_ (09-12-2018),Gio (09-15-2018),_MR Snakes_ (12-13-2018)

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## Gio

> Definite mass/abscess development in her right gum tissue. Vet is out of town for a week. Referred to another vet in Birmingham. 2pm appointment Friday to have abscess removed. This had sure better offer the two of us some relief from this nonsense. Third long commute vet trip in two months. Will be a collective 13+ hours driving to and from
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Dude,

Outside of the BS you are dealing with, she looks awesome!

She's still a nice sized animal. Keep us posted.

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_jmcrook_ (09-15-2018)

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## jmcrook

> Dude,
> 
> Outside of the BS you are dealing with, she looks awesome!
> 
> She's still a nice sized animal. Keep us posted.


Thanks Gio. Vet made a small incision in her gums yesterday and managed to work a bit of puss out of it. Irrigated the wound with saline solution. He thinks the lost/broken teeth are a symptom of the infection, not the cause of it.
His recommendation for continued treatment was that we use a more concentrated and higher dosage of ceftazidime to fight the infection more aggressively. So essentially were administering 4x the medication per injection in 2x the liquid volume that we had been. Three more shots to go, administered in two injection sites per shot due to the volume of liquid (2.4ml). 
Also recommended slightly higher temps to increase her metabolic rate and help the medication to fight off the heavy bacterial growth (pseudomonas aeruginosa).
Aside from the obvious infection he said that she looks great otherwise. Clear breathing, alert, good muscle tone, doesnt appear overweight. Weighed in at 26.5lbs so she hasnt lost any weight despite not having eaten in 6 weeks. I think once her appetite comes back well see some more improvement.


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_Dxw425_ (09-16-2018),Gio (09-15-2018),_MR Snakes_ (12-13-2018),_Stearns84_ (09-16-2018),_tttaylorrr_ (09-16-2018)

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## Gio

> Thanks Gio. Vet made a small incision in her gums yesterday and managed to work a bit of puss out of it. Irrigated the wound with saline solution. He thinks the lost/broken teeth are a symptom of the infection, not the cause of it.
> His recommendation for continued treatment was that we use a more concentrated and higher dosage of ceftazidime to fight the infection more aggressively. So essentially were administering 4x the medication per injection in 2x the liquid volume that we had been. Three more shots to go, administered in two injection sites per shot due to the volume of liquid (2.4ml). 
> Also recommended slightly higher temps to increase her metabolic rate and help the medication to fight off the heavy bacterial growth (pseudomonas aeruginosa).
> Aside from the obvious infection he said that she looks great otherwise. Clear breathing, alert, good muscle tone, doesnt appear overweight. Weighed in at 26.5lbs so she hasnt lost any weight despite not having eaten in 6 weeks. I think once her appetite comes back well see some more improvement.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Quite overwhelming I'm sure. I think it sucks you have to deal with all of that. 

I agree though, she looks great and once the infection is finally gone, I think the new cage will keep her happy. 

I doubt she'll grow much more.

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## 67temp

How is she doing now? Any progress?

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## jmcrook

> How is she doing now? Any progress?


No improvement after yet another course of antibiotics and pulled another two teeth the other day. I seriously think shes going to need surgery to remove the mass from her gum tissue. Hasnt eaten in 7 weeks now as well. With the number of teeth shes lost Im fearful the infection has spread to her jaw.


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## Gio

> No improvement after yet another course of antibiotics and pulled another two teeth the other day. I seriously think shes going to need surgery to remove the mass from her gum tissue. Hasnt eaten in 7 weeks now as well. With the number of teeth shes lost Im fearful the infection has spread to her jaw.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wow,

This is unbelievable!

I was hoping my next view of this post would have been seeing the new cage.

Instead, more bad news which completely sucks for you. 

I must have a very cooperative retic, or it'll hit the fan here soon.

Sorry man, keep the updates coming.

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## jmcrook

> Wow,
> 
> This is unbelievable!
> 
> I was hoping my next view of this post would have been seeing the new cage.
> 
> Instead, more bad news which completely sucks for you. 
> 
> I must have a very cooperative retic, or it'll hit the fan here soon.
> ...


For real dude, completely and totally unbelievable and beyond draining on my part. 
Talking with vet #1 right now and shes discussing with other herp vets the idea of cutting out whatevers in her face, cleaning it out and placing antibiotic impregnated beads in the resulting cavity. Then maybe leaving Phyllis with her for a bit to do some monitoring and local therapy. 


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_AbsoluteApril_ (09-27-2018),Gio (09-24-2018),_MR Snakes_ (12-13-2018)

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## zina10

> For real dude, completely and totally unbelievable and beyond draining on my part. 
> Talking with vet #1 right now and shes discussing with other herp vets the idea of cutting out whatevers in her face, cleaning it out and placing antibiotic impregnated beads in the resulting cavity. Then maybe leaving Phyllis with her for a bit to do some monitoring and local therapy. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I really feel sorry for you. You are trying SO hard. No-one can ever say you aren't doing all that can be done. I really wish that things would finally look up for you. 

I had a Blood Python that developed a lump like this in his mouth, almost exactly in the same location. It can be frustrating and very difficult to treat and fix. 
In my case, that lump quickly grew bigger, the infection got into the bone. Even after scraping out the infected tissue and intensive Antibiotic treatment. In the end things got so bad that we were at daily shots. 

If I could say anything about it, be as aggressive as you can with treatment. Perhaps leaving her at the Vet isn't such a bad idea. They can monitor her daily and possibly adjust treatment based on how she is progressing. 

I sincerely hope for the best, you and her deserve it!

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_MR Snakes_ (12-13-2018)

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## Sauzo

Dang man. That sucks. You just cant win it seems. Eventually it has to turn around. The "S" cant hit the fan forever. Recently Caesar has been a pita too lol. I had to remove the shelf as he was using it too much and re split one eyebrow and scuffed up the other one as well as the top of his neck now. I swear man, i think we have the worlds most pita retics. Yours being on the far left and mine being between that and the middle.

Again, i was told 'buy a retic! they are fun, they are smart, they are active". Someone forgot to mention the part of 'they are a pita, they like to cause trouble, they constantly poop and pee, they eat anything with fur or feathers that they can fit in their mouths".

Anyways good luck man. At least you got a boa to relax with. Now you need to look into GTPs. They are like a BP on a stick. They are visible but quiet lol.

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_MR Snakes_ (12-13-2018)

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## 67temp

Thats a bummer man, I was really hoping for her to show some signs of improvement.

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## jmcrook

Thanks yall. This animals condition pretty much hovers over every moment of every day for me at this point. I may drive her to the vet Wednesday after work, which is awesome because thats the end of an 11hr day for me to be topped with a ~5hr round trip to and from Birmingham. My vet said she wouldnt charge for boarding which is nice. After this upcoming visit Ill be about $1k deep in vet costs since July 
And no looking into any other animals until Phyllis is back to 100%. Ive got cage space but no time to deal with acclimating new animals and treating current problem critters. No rest for the wicked here 


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## Skyrivers

I truly wish you both the best. You have had a hard time for sure. When you put as much love into these animals as we do, it is difficult to watch them struggle with health issues. We are all with you man.

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## jmcrook

Phyllis had her surgery today and Dr. Burke told me she did very well. Removed a very sizeable chunk of pus and necrotic tissue from her top right lip. Shes already awake from the anesthesia and will be staying at the clinic for a few weeks to monitor her recovery progress. 



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_AbsoluteApril_ (10-02-2018),_Alicia_ (10-03-2018),_Dxw425_ (10-02-2018),Gio (10-02-2018),_MR Snakes_ (12-13-2018),_Sauzo_ (10-02-2018),_Stearns84_ (10-03-2018)

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## Dxw425

Hope the healing and recovery goes well!! Keep us up to date!

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_jmcrook_ (10-02-2018)

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## Sauzo

Looks like she is on her way to recovery now. Good luck man.

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_jmcrook_ (10-02-2018)

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## zina10

Oh wow, poor girl. No wonder she wasn't herself. Abcesses hurt  pretty bad, esp. in the mouth. 

If there is so much as a TINY piece of infectious tissue left behind, there will never be 100% healing. It will always blow right back up after antibiotics. This is the best thing you could have done for her. Have her "out" so that a vet can go deep, take out every bit of diseased tissue and matter, irrigate and rinse very well and then insert antibiotic wash into the wound. That plus some antibiotic shots should finally allow true healing to happen. 

I bet she already feels so much better. The pressure and pain of an abscess can be excruciating and who knows, it might have been part of why she kept smashing her face. I've had other animals mutilate themselves because they messed with a painful part of their body. They do not comprehend that it only makes it worse.

I hope she will turn the corner for you now and you will pick up a healthy and happy Retic girl, to enjoy her new and large enclosure. You sure have been through the wringer with this girl, you both deserve a break!

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_jmcrook_ (10-02-2018),_MR Snakes_ (12-13-2018)

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## Dianne

Wishing her a speedy recovery and you a well deserved break.  Best wishes.

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_jmcrook_ (10-03-2018)

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## jmcrook

> Oh wow, poor girl. No wonder she wasn't herself. Abcesses hurt  pretty bad, esp. in the mouth. 
> 
> If there is so much as a TINY piece of infectious tissue left behind, there will never be 100% healing. It will always blow right back up after antibiotics. This is the best thing you could have done for her. Have her "out" so that a vet can go deep, take out every bit of diseased tissue and matter, irrigate and rinse very well and then insert antibiotic wash into the wound. That plus some antibiotic shots should finally allow true healing to happen. 
> 
> I bet she already feels so much better. The pressure and pain of an abscess can be excruciating and who knows, it might have been part of why she kept smashing her face. I've had other animals mutilate themselves because they messed with a painful part of their body. They do not comprehend that it only makes it worse.
> 
> I hope she will turn the corner for you now and you will pick up a healthy and happy Retic girl, to enjoy her new and large enclosure. You sure have been through the wringer with this girl, you both deserve a break!


Thank you, zina. Dr. Burke said they removed the piece pictured (still from video she sent me) and a tiny bit from the other side of her mouth. Then irrigated, rinsed, and antibiotic impregnated beads implanted directly into the site of the infection then closed up. Theyre going to monitor and care for her until they are sure she is on the upswing. And boarding her for free to make sure they can guarantee quick access to Phyllis should any complications arise. 


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_zina10_ (10-03-2018)

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## Skyrivers

> Thank you, zina. Dr. Burke said they removed the piece pictured (still from video she sent me) and a tiny bit from the other side of her mouth. Then irrigated, rinsed, and antibiotic impregnated beads implanted directly into the site of the infection then closed up. Theyre going to monitor and care for her until they are sure she is on the upswing. And boarding her for free to make sure they can guarantee quick access to Phyllis should any complications arise. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sounds like you have an awesome vet there. Would love to see the video. Wishing her a speedy recovery.

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## EL-Ziggy

Wishing Phyllis a full and speedy recovery JMC. Hope it's all smooth sailing for y'all going forward.

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_jmcrook_ (10-03-2018)

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## zina10

> Thank you, zina. Dr. Burke said they removed the piece pictured (still from video she sent me) and a tiny bit from the other side of her mouth. Then irrigated, rinsed, and antibiotic impregnated beads implanted directly into the site of the infection then closed up. Theyre going to monitor and care for her until they are sure she is on the upswing. And boarding her for free to make sure they can guarantee quick access to Phyllis should any complications arise. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That is so interesting, I didn't realize they had those beads now. Since they should have a time released effect, that is even better then just leaving antibiotic wash in the wound. Sounds like you have a wonderful and caring Vet. That is so important, that can really make all the difference. I also think its wonderful that they board her for free. This way they can be right on top of any little issue popping up post surgery. Time is often of the essence in these cases. 

I hope you give yourself a lot of credit as well. Following your story, it is amazing how committed you are to this animal.

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_jmcrook_ (10-03-2018)

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## Skyrivers

Dear jmcrook,

Thank you for taking such good care for me the past couple of years. I know it has been a rough ride but I appreciate all you have done.

Sincerely,

Kalatoa

PS... looking forward to a nice meal once I get over this pain in my mouth.  :Very Happy: 





> 





> .





> https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cache2.php?img=https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170917/29b68f66f343c51c5c9097fd0ef187a9.jpg[/IMG]





>

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_jmcrook_ (10-03-2018),_zina10_ (10-03-2018)

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## Helonwheelz383

So awesome!! I absolutely love those bad boys. Definitely on the bucket list for later.

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## jmcrook

Dr. Burke tells me that Phylliss post op swelling has gone down considerably since Wednesday. She wants to keep her at the clinic at least through next week just to have a close eye on her. 
Also just about finished with the new cage. Need to order a big handrail for a perch and then were good to go. 

Never thought Id own a cage that makes an Animal Plastics T25 look small... 


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_67temp_ (10-06-2018),_Alicia_ (10-13-2018),_Dxw425_ (10-06-2018),_Godzilla78_ (10-05-2018),Michelle-07 (10-11-2018),_MR Snakes_ (12-13-2018),_Reinz_ (10-05-2018),_Sauzo_ (10-05-2018),_Starscream_ (10-06-2018),_Stearns84_ (10-05-2018)

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## Stearns84

> Dr. Burke tells me that Phylliss post op swelling has gone down considerably since Wednesday. She wants to keep her at the clinic at least through next week just to have a close eye on her. 
> Also just about finished with the new cage. Need to order a big handrail for a perch and then were good to go. 
> 
> Never thought Id own a cage that makes an Animal Plastics T25 look small... 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wow! 

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_jmcrook_ (10-05-2018)

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## Sauzo

That thing is huge. Grats.

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_jmcrook_ (10-05-2018)

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## Reinz

Great job, Phyllis will love it!

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_jmcrook_ (10-05-2018)

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## PiperPython

That is massive  :Surprised: 

Fingers crossed for you.

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_jmcrook_ (10-05-2018)

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## Zincubus

> Dr. Burke tells me that Phylliss post op swelling has gone down considerably since Wednesday. She wants to keep her at the clinic at least through next week just to have a close eye on her. 
> Also just about finished with the new cage. Need to order a big handrail for a perch and then were good to go. 
> 
> Never thought Id own a cage that makes an Animal Plastics T25 look small... 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Looks amazing !!


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_jmcrook_ (10-06-2018)

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## Dxw425

Cant wait to see her in it, very cool man!

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_jmcrook_ (10-06-2018)

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## PiperPython

Handrail for a perch.  :Very Happy:

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_jmcrook_ (10-06-2018)

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## 67temp

Very nice new enclosure. It will be an awesome welcome home for her!

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_jmcrook_ (10-06-2018)

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## zina10

I could live in there quite comfortably!  

Looks great and good news from the Vet too. Here is to better times ahead  


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_jmcrook_ (10-06-2018)

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## jmcrook

Brought Phyllis home today. Deep in shed and her lips are still swollen from surgery but much better than they were previously. Were going to wait another week or two and see how things progress. If the swelling completely goes away then well leave the beads in her face. If it looks only swollen from the placement of the beads then well discuss removing them. 
Welcome home, baby girl!



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_Alicia_ (10-13-2018),_Dxw425_ (10-11-2018),Gio (10-12-2018),_MR Snakes_ (12-13-2018),_Sauzo_ (10-11-2018),_Stearns84_ (10-12-2018),_tttaylorrr_ (10-11-2018),_zina10_ (10-11-2018)

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## tttaylorrr

> Brought Phyllis home today. Deep in shed and her lips are still swollen from surgery but much better than they were previously. Were going to wait another week or two and see how things progress. If the swelling completely goes away then well leave the beads in her face. If it looks only swollen from the placement of the beads then well discuss removing them. 
> Welcome home, baby girl!
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


welcome home, bby girl! we're rooting for you both!!!

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_jmcrook_ (10-11-2018)

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## Sauzo

Grats. So how does she like it?

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## jmcrook

> Grats. So how does she like it?


Very curious about it. Been sniffing each and every corner and surface in there. The shelf is a little deeper than AP so I think that is making it more accessible to her. I also think the 6 extra height is nice for her. Shes got a ton of space now hah 


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Gio (10-12-2018),_Stearns84_ (10-12-2018),_tttaylorrr_ (10-11-2018)

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## Sauzo

> Very curious about it. Been sniffing each and every corner and surface in there. The shelf is a little deeper than AP so I think that is making it more accessible to her. I also think the 6 extra height is nice for her. Shes got a ton of space now hah 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I had to remove Caesar's shelf as he scraped both eyebrows and his neck from thumping it all the time since i guess the door became not fun to play with anymore...../sigh

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## jmcrook

> I had to remove Caesar's shelf as he scraped both eyebrows and his neck from thumping it all the time since i guess the door became not fun to play with anymore...../sigh


Good god man... thats nuts. Retics, the reason we cant have nice things lol


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## Sauzo

> Good god man... that’s nuts. Retics, the reason we can’t have nice things lol
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well between him and Harley my beardie, i am always broke lol. I just spent $400 at the vet for Harley because she quit using one of her back legs. My vet did xrays and a blood panel and is consulting with an xray specialist as she cant see anything wrong with the back leg except possibly a little arthritis. But at only 5 years old, she is kind of surprised and not at the same time as Harley is 718 grams.....a beardie her size should be around 400 grams. Harley is spoiled with bugs. The vet said no more 'candy bugs' for her. She gets dubias and hornworms and silkworms and thats it except for veggies.

She also checked for impaction, possibly eggs, spine, and stuff and said it all looks normal except for the huge amount of fat on her from years of beardie bon-bons aka butterworms lol. She loves those things and will jump off her hammock and run across the cage to greet me for them when she sees the tub. And me being the softie, i cave for her all the time lol.

Also i just ordered Alex his AP A8 and Pro Products heat panel. Made a joke with Ali saying 'so i will get this cage in 3 weeks'. She laughed and said "i wish. One day we might be able to say that but for now, it is going to be 3 months'.

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_CALM Pythons_ (10-12-2018),_jmcrook_ (10-11-2018)

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## Dxw425

Glad shes back! And MAN shes impressive.

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_jmcrook_ (10-12-2018)

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## CALM Pythons

Great News Bro. Looks happy as a clam to have his new Palace. I love the pics. Hope all goes well with Alex too. 


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## 67temp

Glad she is back home and checking out the new enclosure. I hope the rest of the recovery goes smoothly!

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_jmcrook_ (10-12-2018)

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## Skyrivers

Wishing her a speedy recovery. Thank you for taking such great care of her. Hope she likes her new digs and gets well quickly. 






> Brought Phyllis home today. Deep in shed and her lips are still swollen from surgery but much better than they were previously. We’re going to wait another week or two and see how things progress. If the swelling completely goes away then we’ll leave the beads in her face. If it looks only swollen from the placement of the beads then we’ll discuss removing them. 
> Welcome home, baby girl!
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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_jmcrook_ (10-12-2018)

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## Stearns84

How is she doing?

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## jmcrook

> How is she doing?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


She's deep in shed right now, so she's doing the usual "play dead and look absolutely miserable" routine. Still some noticeable swelling of the lips but I think some of that is attributed to the several antibiotic beads implanted in her face. Dr. Burke said we'd monitor the reduction of the swelling and if it goes away completely then we'll leave the beads in indefinitely. They won't dissolve, being made of bone cement and all. If after a couple weeks she seems to be better and there's just disfigurement from the beads then we'll discuss removing them.

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_AbsoluteApril_ (10-16-2018),_CALM Pythons_ (10-16-2018),_Dxw425_ (10-15-2018),Gio (10-15-2018),_MR Snakes_ (12-13-2018),_Stearns84_ (10-15-2018),_zina10_ (10-15-2018)

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## EL-Ziggy

She looks great in the new digs JMC. Best wishes with her recovery.

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_jmcrook_ (10-15-2018)

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## jmcrook

> She looks great in the new digs JMC. Best wishes with her recovery.


Thanks Ziggy! Once she sheds Ill have a better idea of how shes feeling. Shed=dead 


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## oodaT

Guess I missed it but what cages are those? Interested in that myself

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## jmcrook

> Guess I missed it but what cages are those? Interested in that myself
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...uild-and-Specs 



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_CALM Pythons_ (10-22-2018),_oodaT_ (10-21-2018)

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## oodaT

> https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...uild-and-Specs 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Awesome, gonna check him out soon

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_jmcrook_ (10-21-2018)

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## Stearns84

How's she doing?

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## jmcrook

> How's she doing?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Still refusing food, still pushing. FML 


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## Skyrivers

Have you tried offering live quail?


> Still refusing food, still pushing. FML 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## zina10

> Still refusing food, still pushing. FML 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Dang. Sorry to hear that. I can't even begin to imagine how frustrated you must be. You have done all that can be done. And then some. 
Whatever this may be, it is certainly not due to something you did or didn't do.

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Gio (10-26-2018)

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## Sauzo

> Still refusing food, still pushing. FML 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Dang man. That really sucks  :Sad:

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## jmcrook

I hate everything right now. Ive spent over $2k on this animal between vet costs and new cage since July and literally nothing has changed behaviorally. I cant keep on doing this. Its hard enough to give away a grown retic around here let alone sell or trade one. I hate everything so much right now that words cant express it. Someone please come to my apt and exterminate both me and this godforesaken snake at once 


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## Dianne

> I hate everything right now. Ive spent over $2k on this animal between vet costs and new cage since July and literally nothing has changed behaviorally. I cant keep on doing this. Its hard enough to give away a grown retic around here let alone sell or trade one. I hate everything so much right now that words cant express it. Someone please come to my apt and exterminate both me and this godforesaken snake at once 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Im so sorry to hear this.  I really thought the fabulous new cage would change her behavior.  There isnt anything you havent tried. 

I understand the frustration of rehoming a large snake.  I had a 12 albino burm that Id had for 16 years.  I had been trying to rehome her for about a year.  I was only l only considering very experienced keepers because she did not have the typical laid back burm personality.  She was an extremely agressive feeder (lunge out of the cage) and was often difficult to handle...hissy, irritable, and prone to striking out when she didnt want to be bothered.  When my other half passed away in April of this year, I reached out again to every rescue group and local zoo up to a 2-3 hour drive from home.  In the end I had to make the choice to put her down.  I couldnt safely take her out or feed her alone, and the few friends I have that are okay with most of my collection wouldnt get near her because if her size and temperament.  Ultimately it came down to I couldnt let her really hurt someone or worse.  It is still one of the hardest decisions I have ever made.

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_AbsoluteApril_ (10-26-2018),_jmcrook_ (10-26-2018),_zina10_ (10-26-2018)

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## Skyrivers

I hope you don't plan on putting her down. If it comes to that will have to figure out a way to meet me halfway driving and I'll pick her up.

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## zina10

While I hope it doesn't come down to the animal being put down, one can't fault an owner for doing the responsible thing. JMcrook did all he could to figure out this animals problems. Right now there seems to be something going on that is destroying this poor snakes quality of life (not to mention her owners). 

Its all good and well to keep trying to figure things out, but there comes a point where you have done all you can think of and are able to do. If things do not work, what do you do ? 

Sure, you could re-home.

But..there are certain animals that are very difficult to re-home to a good home. Animals that people will line up to get, esp. free. Animals that people feel they can do better by then the former owner. But as the owner, you have to be very concerned. Because that animal could very well end up in a worse place. Yes, there is worse that could happen then being put down humanely. 
Some new owners do not know when to give up and the suffering continues far beyond the point it should. Some people give up eventually, but let that animal linger on and get into a horrible shape. Some people just pass it on again and eventually things don't end well. 

Its difficult for an owner. A Retic is not a corn snake or Ball Python. Esp. one with a big issue such as that, that couldn't be fixed despite many things tried, is even harder to find a good home for. What could another owner do different at this point ? How much more is another owner willing (and able) to spend and do to figure things out? Will the new owner know when to call it quits in the best interest of the animal? 

I don't know what JMCrook will or wants to do. Maybe the thought of putting her down never ever crossed his mind and never will. Point is, right now he needs some sympathy and understanding. 

He knows his girl and ultimately whatever he ends up doing is his decision and should be respected. If he re-homes her, he will probably look for a home that could house her radically different, perhaps in a small room type of setup like a zoo could provide. Which still wouldn't address that perhaps there is some kind of hidden health issue that keeps her from eating and is making her rub and be miserable.

Perhaps re-home her with an understanding that the new owner will not pass her on. One that will try to fix the issue but know when to quit if things don't work? 

Either way, Its up to JMCrook, and I'm sorry he has to make that decision, but it is his to make.

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_AbsoluteApril_ (10-26-2018),Gio (10-26-2018),_jmcrook_ (10-26-2018),_tttaylorrr_ (10-26-2018)

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## Skyrivers

Trust me I sympathize with him zina10. Mad respect for him and all he has and is doing. I am sure he feels like a parent with a new born baby that cries and cries but can't talk to say what is wrong. All to often we wish our animals could talk and communication was easier when things go wrong. I am sure she is doing her best to let him know but her way of communicating is so vague that he has no way of knowing what is going on. 

I know is up to him when enough is enough. I hope he finds a solution soon. 



> While I hope it doesn't come down to the animal being put down, one can't fault an owner for doing the responsible thing. JMcrook did all he could to figure out this animals problems. Right now there seems to be something going on that is destroying this poor snakes quality of life (not to mention her owners). 
> 
> Its all good and well to keep trying to figure things out, but there comes a point where you have done all you can think of and are able to do. If things do not work, what do you do ? 
> 
> Sure, you could re-home.
> 
> But..there are certain animals that are very difficult to re-home to a good home. Animals that people will line up to get, esp. free. Animals that people feel they can do better by then the former owner. But as the owner, you have to be very concerned. Because that animal could very well end up in a worse place. Yes, there is worse that could happen then being put down humanely. 
> Some new owners do not know when to give up and the suffering continues far beyond the point it should. Some people give up eventually, but let that animal linger on and get into a horrible shape. Some people just pass it on again and eventually things don't end well. 
> 
> ...


Have you thought about something like this being nearby? 

Ultrasonic Electronic Driving Device for Expelling Pest Mouse Mice Snake Insects Waterproof Repellent Expelling Device for Hotel Garden Farm In the Open Air Outdoor Solar Energy Black https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072HRBV5N..._lNZ0Bb5M68MX8

Might be worth asking your neighbors. I know snakes don't have ears but they do feel vibrations. 

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_zina10_ (10-26-2018)

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## jmcrook

> Trust me I sympathize with him zina10. Mad respect for him and all he has and is doing. I am sure he feels like a parent with a new born baby that cries and cries but can't talk to say what is wrong. All to often we wish our animals could talk and communication was easier when things go wrong. I am sure she is doing her best to let him know but her way of communicating is so vague that he has no way of knowing what is going on. 
> 
> I know is up to him when enough is enough. I hope he finds a solution soon. 
> 
> Have you thought about something like this being nearby? 
> 
> Ultrasonic Electronic Driving Device for Expelling Pest Mouse Mice Snake Insects Waterproof Repellent Expelling Device for Hotel Garden Farm In the Open Air Outdoor Solar Energy Black https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072HRBV5N..._lNZ0Bb5M68MX8
> 
> Might be worth asking your neighbors. I know snakes don't have ears but they do feel vibrations. 
> ...


This behavior, as stated multiple times throughout this lengthy thread, has persisted for two years through two different states, three different enclosures, and three different residences. I am dead certain its not a vibration from a neighbor/electronic pest repellent. 
If she would just eat I think wed be in the clear. If she does end up being placed elsewhere it will only be with someone willing, ready, and able to do at least everything I have tried at a moments notice and that I have thoroughly vetted in a most scrutinizing manner. 


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Gio (10-26-2018),_zina10_ (10-26-2018)

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## Gio

Dude,

I'm at a loss. I'm super bummed as you were a person that got me thinking I should snatch this species up. While it did work out for me, I'm really bummed you've had two that have caused so many issues.

A very experienced retic buddy of mine said some retics just push. He followed up by saying he would never own one that does.

This hobby ins't about being miserable, and clearly you are there. 

Do what you have to do brother. 

Enough time and money! 

Not worth it to either you or the animal to continue this.

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_AbsoluteApril_ (10-26-2018)

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## AbsoluteApril

> A very experienced retic buddy of mine said some retics just push. He followed up by saying he would never own one that does.


Yes, I agree, some are just pushers. It's not fun and not one I'd want to keep either. We've been very luck in that respect.
**

I am terribly sorry JM, I really wish there was an easy solution and you have tried so much. Anyone reading this can see how much love and effort you've put into this girl. I cannot even begin to imagine the frustration you are feeling.

Perhaps the breeder would be willing to take her back?

Whatever you decide, do what is right for *you*. 
Wishing you luck and peace.

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Gio (10-26-2018),_tttaylorrr_ (10-26-2018),_zina10_ (10-26-2018)

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## Dxw425

Super bummed to see the latest updates to Phyllis. Wishing you the best man.

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## 67temp

JM, whatever the outcome is I hope the solution comes quickly, for the both yours and Phyllis's sake.

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## jmcrook

Thanks you everyone. Was talking to another retic friend on FB that said they had a female literally push itself to death. Trying to keep my composure and weigh my options as far as final solutions for the both of us. I dont know what will end up happening but Im sure whatever the decision is, it will not be an easy one to make. Secretly hoping that shell eat soon and things will shape up. Her lips are just getting swollen again as she refuses to quit pushing ever... 


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_Stearns84_ (11-01-2018)

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## Dianne

I wish I had some words of wisdom or ideas that would help.  I cant think of a thing that you havent already tried.  Best wishes to you both.

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## zina10

> Thanks you everyone. Was talking to another retic friend on FB that said they had a female literally push itself to death. Trying to keep my composure and weigh my options as far as final solutions for the both of us. I dont know what will end up happening but Im sure whatever the decision is, it will not be an easy one to make. Secretly hoping that shell eat soon and things will shape up. Her lips are just getting swollen again as she refuses to quit pushing ever... 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Does she always push in the same spot? Or generally, just at the edges of each door or the middle support (where fresh air flows in, telling her thats the way out) ?

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## jmcrook

> Does she always push in the same spot? Or generally, just at the edges of each door or the middle support (where fresh air flows in, telling her thats the way out) ?


Most generally at gaps in between the doors, but elsewhere in the cage as well. 


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## zina10

I know my thoughts will be far out there, and not well developed yet. 

Just thinking of some stuff..

Knowing that Retics are a species that usually travel for miles, and actively hunt for food, I wonder if some of them just have it hard wired into them to "travel". If they could get, in a way, claustrophobic. Perhaps their instinct tells them to get moving. 

I have seen certain cushioned mats, usually some form or yoga mat, that are made out of a very cushioned but "slick" smooth material. Do you think it would help to line the inside of the cage with something like that. She could still push her face into it, but it has give. 

The doors are more challenging. The snake knows that is where the cage opens, I also believe they feel the "air" moving in from there. However, you have to have doors. And then there are the gaps between doors. Can't really cushion them from the inside. I wonder, though, could those doors be replaced by some sort of plexi plastic glass? You could then cut a round hole into each of those doors and then connect a big tunnel, either going from one door in a big loop to the other door. Or. From one door to yet another cage that is nearby. Or go more elaborate and have that tunnel travel up and around, or along the walls ? 

That may sound weird, but sort of like a over sized "hamster cage". Perhaps if she had somewhere to go, out of those doors, she wouldn't push trying to get out. Perhaps going into a tunnel , into another cage, or in a big loop around back into her own cage she would feel like she is "moving". Basically a big endless loop she could take. 

What that tunnel could be made out of , I don't know. There are ready made bendable structures, but how solid they would be, I don't know. There is the possible problem of her relieving herself in the tunnel. 

You could always swap the doors to the glass ones if you need her to stay in the cage. 

I know this may sound really out there, and its just preliminary thoughts that flit through my brain. I just have a feeling that her instinct wants her to be on the move. And if you provide a endless circle, she always has somewhere to go to? 

Of course that may be impossible to do or to far out there, or plain not work.

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## Sauzo

Problem with slick flooring is that I'm sure Phyllis does what Caesar did when he was in breeding mode and would brace himself with his back half against the back of the cage and then just push and literally lift his body off the ground and shake violently while pushing.

As for the 'tube loop', that is a good idea. Could just use big plumbing size pvc piping and just build it the same way you would build a small climbing pvc jungle gym. Just use straight joints so you can break it down into manageable lengths to clean the inside and use 90 degree ones to bend it back around. Then just drill 2 holes next to each other on the either side and use big zipties to secure each section to the other.

I would use PVC piping that was thick enough for Phyllis to go through but not thick enough to double back on or else you could risk her getting stuck.

And btw, that is some serious swelling. Caesar would get some bumps and lumps from his breeding pushing but nothing that bad. Holy cow.

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_zina10_ (10-29-2018)

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## zina10

If there was such a thing I would like wider tubing..where she could easily double over..even after a big meal...and tubing that would be see through. So you could tell where she is and what she is doing.

I don't think there is anything like that though. At least not easily found.  Well, we got a clear piece of pvc pipe for a pool filter connection once. But the diameter was small.

Would also be cool to make one tube go from one door of the cage to the door of another cage. One tube on each side of each cage. Creating one big circle.

Maybe I should come up with a retic habitat that has modular connections and areas that you can put together much like those Hamster ones. Only bigger and connecting to a good snake enclosure  they do seem to like being on the go.


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## PiperPython

Maybe find someway to fashion a cushion or soft barrier against the inside of the glass to soften the abrasion? Let her out for 2-3 hours a day? I'm so sorry, I really hope you find a solution soon  If it comes down to euthanizing, don't worry too much about the reaction of others.  You know what's right for yourself and your family, not anyone else.

My olive python is still quite young but surfs quite often against the front of the cage, and this entire thread sits in the back of my mind everyday. Thank you for sharing your experiences so willingly.

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_zina10_ (10-29-2018)

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## zina10

Perhaps something along those lines?



or rather like this 

https://www.gfps.com/master/en_US/pr...learsch80.html

If a loose duct type material, it would probably need to be fastened at certain intervals or short enough (leading to another cage) that she can't tie herself of the product in knots..

I don't know if it would help. But she seems to want to get out. So if the doors lead to "somewhere" even if it is just a loop or another cage that then again leads back to the first cage, it may fool her into thinking she isn't contained and can travel. Even if she basically just goes in circles..

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## jmcrook

> I know my thoughts will be far out there, and not well developed yet. 
> 
> Just thinking of some stuff..
> 
> Knowing that Retics are a species that usually travel for miles, and actively hunt for food, I wonder if some of them just have it hard wired into them to "travel". If they could get, in a way, claustrophobic. Perhaps their instinct tells them to get moving. 
> 
> I have seen certain cushioned mats, usually some form or yoga mat, that are made out of a very cushioned but "slick" smooth material. Do you think it would help to line the inside of the cage with something like that. She could still push her face into it, but it has give. 
> 
> The doors are more challenging. The snake knows that is where the cage opens, I also believe they feel the "air" moving in from there. However, you have to have doors. And then there are the gaps between doors. Can't really cushion them from the inside. I wonder, though, could those doors be replaced by some sort of plexi plastic glass? You could then cut a round hole into each of those doors and then connect a big tunnel, either going from one door in a big loop to the other door. Or. From one door to yet another cage that is nearby. Or go more elaborate and have that tunnel travel up and around, or along the walls ? 
> ...


I like the thinking here, however I think it would necessitate having to completely disassemble the tube contraption in order to open the doors every time I need to enter the cage. Which could possibly make keeping this animal even more annoying. Not to mention the investment Id have to make in acquiring the tools needed to construct this thing. I can also see this easily being broken as she weighs 25lbs. Plexiglass is strong but not a material Id choose to bear a heavy load. 
Shes even pushed at the windows in my apt when I let her out to roam the entire house. Its obnoxious and beyond frustrating. For the time being Im just going to hope she eats soon. If shell start eating again shell be calm and Ill just slam her with food. I know its not healthy but Id rather have a fat, lazy snake than a lean one that tries to peel her face from her skull every day. 
I just cant keep up the vet and cage modification expenses for a snake whose behavior will simply not change. 
Not meaning to be overly critical of any suggestions here, just thinking out loud I guess. As Gio said, this isnt supposed to be a miserable hobby/stress project and thats all it is for me at this point. 



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_AbsoluteApril_ (10-29-2018),_Dxw425_ (10-29-2018),_MR Snakes_ (12-13-2018),_zina10_ (10-29-2018)

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## AbsoluteApril

It's sounds intriguing but not sure if it would really work, she may just be a pusher. The only things left I could think of which sometimes stop pushing is a much smaller cage, moving from a tank to a tub (rather difficult at her size but I've done this with young ones before) or turning the temps down a bit as some will push to get away from heat. But again even with any of those changes, she may just simply be a pusher and need a full room which I know is not really a possible solution. 

I hope she eats soon as well. I forget but did the vet confirm she's a girl for sure? So odd that she will not eat.

When you give her toys does she push them around the cage (or push her water bowl around) or is she only pushing on the cage itself?
edit - oh just saw you say she pushes on windows even when out.
dangit.

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## jmcrook

> It's sounds intriguing but not sure if it would really work, she may just be a pusher. The only things left I could think of which sometimes stop pushing is a much smaller cage, moving from a tank to a tub (rather difficult at her size but I've done this with young ones before) or turning the temps down a bit as some will push to get away from heat. But again even with any of those changes, she may just simply be a pusher and need a full room which I know is not really a possible solution. 
> 
> I hope she eats soon as well. I forget but did the vet confirm she's a girl for sure? So odd that she will not eat.
> 
> When you give her toys does she push them around the cage (or push her water bowl around) or is she only pushing on the cage itself?
> edit - oh just saw you say she pushes on windows even when out.
> dangit.


Yeah, Ive tried temps as low as 72* and up to 95* with no behavioral change. Same with cage size.
She probed at 7-8scales deep. Shallow for a male but deep for a female. However her one pairing with Gerald in August showed all the telltale signs of an uninterested female: wagging her tail, gaping vent, peeing everywhere all while Gerald was spurring away at her. 
Toys do nothing for her. Shell push her water bowl around but only to use it as leverage to push harder at the doors. 


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## zina10

Wagging tail, gaping vent and peeing are all things that my BP females do when they are very interested. Perhaps you could try to pair her again?

Perhaps the issue was Gerald and even though he seemed interested, maybe he just didn't figure things out? 

As to the feeding issue, I know they use different senses to locate and identify prey. Those senses are all located in the head/face. Nostrils for scent, heat pits for heat signature and the Jacobson organ. 

Could it be that her facial swelling and injury is tampering with those senses ? If the swelling is on her face/lips, could it pinch of her nostrils internally, enough to make it hard for her to "smell" the prey? 

Could the heat pits be compromised as well, as they are quite the intricate structures internally. Perhaps she just doesn't recognize prey, or it confuses her because it doesn't seem to be "right". 

Perhaps you could try to make her prey a little hotter then usually and also quite stinky. Like male mouse bedding stinky. Something really rank and penetrating. 

I know that when my nose and sinuses are swollen, I can only smell really strong scents. 

Once again, those are really far out ideas and thoughts. And I know you are so frustrated that right now even reading about ideas and thoughts of others may just be stressful. 
I have a horse with some health issues and some strange symptoms that go along. I have researched it to death, tried everything there is to try, had hopes, had hopes dashed. Again and again. Each time I talk to people about it they have questions and suggestions. Many of which I have tried or know won't work, because of knowing my animal and the circumstances. Each time it all has to be explained all over again. It can get exhausting, even though I know its well meaning and I appreciate that. So I understand. If it gets to be to much, just tell me to stop, and I will. I understand what you are going through. 

Ultimately, its your animal. You know her better then anyone else. You know what you've tried and done. I hope she just starts eating for you and things will calm down. If not, its clear you love her enough to make a decision that is in her and your best interest, whatever that ends up being.

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_MR Snakes_ (12-13-2018)

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## jmcrook

> Wagging tail, gaping vent and peeing are all things that my BP females do when they are very interested. Perhaps you could try to pair her again?
> 
> Perhaps the issue was Gerald and even though he seemed interested, maybe he just didn't figure things out? 
> 
> As to the feeding issue, I know they use different senses to locate and identify prey. Those senses are all located in the head/face. Nostrils for scent, heat pits for heat signature and the Jacobson organ. 
> 
> Could it be that her facial swelling and injury is tampering with those senses ? If the swelling is on her face/lips, could it pinch of her nostrils internally, enough to make it hard for her to "smell" the prey? 
> 
> Could the heat pits be compromised as well, as they are quite the intricate structures internally. Perhaps she just doesn't recognize prey, or it confuses her because it doesn't seem to be "right". 
> ...


Yeah, with retics Ive been told the tail wagging and pissing and such is a sign that the female isnt receptive. Unfortunately I had to rehome gerald several weeks ago because he became incredibly violent and combative due to wanting to breed and Im a solo keeper... cant have an 8-9 angry chainsaw because he could have done some serious damage to me and I have no one to assist me if things got hairy. Im also in no position to have a clutch of retics atm so thats off the table for now.
I dont understand the feeding issue, shes always eaten with her face in various states of swelling/trauma from her pushing. She was eating great, turned down a meal, ate again after shedding in August, and now hasnt eaten since. 


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_zina10_ (10-29-2018)

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## jmcrook

Jesus Christ... shes now managed to push to the point that I just found one of the antibiotic beads they implanted in her face stuck to a cage door. 
Maybe she was just never meant to be a captive animal? She is first generation in captivity after all. Even my vet just told me shes running out of ideas for what to do at this point 


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## tttaylorrr

> Jesus Christ... shes now managed to push to the point that I just found one of the antibiotic beads they implanted in her face stuck to a cage door. 
> Maybe she was just never meant to be a captive animal? She is first generation in captivity after all. Even my vet just told me shes running out of ideas for what to do at this point 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


im so sorry, friend. just sending you positive vibes; you both are in my thoughts. <3

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_zina10_ (10-30-2018)

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## zina10

> Jesus Christ... shes now managed to push to the point that I just found one of the antibiotic beads they implanted in her face stuck to a cage door. 
> Maybe she was just never meant to be a captive animal? She is first generation in captivity after all. Even my vet just told me shes running out of ideas for what to do at this point 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't envy you for having to make a decision how to move forward with this girl..

Sorry it hasn't worked out better.

Hope dies last, but the quality of life (yours and hers) needs to be factored in, as well..

Just a sad situation all around..

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## jmcrook

Thank you, Taylor and Zina. My vet doesnt want us to give up just yet, shes going to see if she cant think of something else to try out. Im really beginning to fear that Ill have to put her down. I just cant afford to keep up with the cost of maintaining her veterinary treatment at this rate, not to mention the dark cloud hanging over my head all day everyday just wondering how fiercely shes pushing while Im gone and then coming home, where relaxation is no longer an option, because i can hear her from across the apt destroying herself. Definitely feeling my most defeated and lowest of morale in over 20yrs of keeping reptiles right now


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_MR Snakes_ (12-13-2018),_tttaylorrr_ (10-30-2018)

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## zina10

> Thank you, Taylor and Zina. My vet doesnt want us to give up just yet, shes going to see if she cant think of something else to try out. Im really beginning to fear that Ill have to put her down. I just cant afford to keep up with the cost of maintaining her veterinary treatment at this rate, not to mention the dark cloud hanging over my head all day everyday just wondering how fiercely shes pushing while Im gone and then coming home, where relaxation is no longer an option, because i can hear her from across the apt destroying herself. Definitely feeling my most defeated and lowest of morale in over 20yrs of keeping reptiles right now
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I understand that you feel this way. She is your animal, your responsibility. But you also have to give yourself some credit. You already KNOW that she is far from the only retic that does that. It seems that this is a rather wide spread issue with them. And there seems to be no rhyme or rhythm to it. You are either lucky with your retic, or you are not. Even the best of care, the most innovation and the willingness to spend big bucks on enclosures and vets seems to make no difference when its bad. It was just that. Bad luck. Its nothing you did or didn't do. I've been reading reptile forums for years, on all kinds of species, and I've rarely come across anyone that was as committed to an animal with that problem as you have been. 

I commend your vet for keep wanting to try. Surely they are also intrigued about this issue and wonder if there is a way to fix it. I wish there was a team of experts/researchers that would spend some years on studying this phenomena, to see if their is some sort of common denominator in the animals that push until they destroy themselves. Until its understood, there is no way to prevent it or fix it. 
Every so often you get researchers and labs interested in such a thing, sort of like they did with German Shepherds and their quirk about becoming addicted and neurotic to light/shadow movement if you let them chase the laser dot. Some of them become so obsessed, it destroys their and their owners quality of life. Its sad and scary. 

I know you are down. What you should do is have a sit down with your vet. Before you go, write down all your questions, your concerns. Explain your limitations financially. Explain how far you are willing to go if her quality of life becomes compromised. Ask them to be completely honest when they think treatment is not going to do much difference anymore. You and the vet need to be 100% on the same page. 

You have been told by all the members following your journey with her how much they admire you, and that it is not your fault, not to beat yourself up about it. Believe them. 

I wish there was some sort of Elizabethan collar for snakes. Like there are for dogs and cats to keep them from messing with their wounds. Of course on a snake it would just slide down their bodies..

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_AbsoluteApril_ (11-01-2018),_MR Snakes_ (12-13-2018),_tttaylorrr_ (10-31-2018)

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## Dianne

Im so sorry to hear this has continued to worsen.  Theres nothing I can add that others havent said.  You really have shown your dedication and care of Phyllis.  There arent a lot of keepers that would go to the lengths you already have.  It is a large weight around your neck when youre trying to figure out the right thing to do.  I know the decision I made for my burm Josephine was not popular with many keepers...believe me Ive gotten plenty of comments on what I should have done or could have done differently.  The thing is, no-one else really has all of the facts for your situation.  Im truly wishing you the best and hoping for a Hail Mary pass to come your way.

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_AbsoluteApril_ (11-01-2018),_zina10_ (10-31-2018)

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## Prognathodon

> You have been told by all the members following your journey with her how much they admire you, and that it is not your fault, not to beat yourself up about it. Believe them.


Yes, this. Youve done so much for Phyllis, nobody with sense can criticize you for not trying. And I think I can safely speak for others that were even more concerned for you than her. 

I wish I lived closer so I could offer real hugs and (unofficial) therapy beagle love.


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_AbsoluteApril_ (11-01-2018),_zina10_ (11-01-2018)

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## CALM Pythons

My Big Burm went to a Zoo here in NY. Is that a option or something you can look into? Mine is now in a Huge Display with a Pond, Rock walls and Caves. Retirement hahahaha   


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*Bogertophis* (08-24-2021),_Dxw425_ (11-01-2018),_MR Snakes_ (12-13-2018),_Stearns84_ (11-01-2018),_Team Slytherin_ (12-15-2018),_zina10_ (11-01-2018)

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## jmcrook

> My Big Burm went to a Zoo here in NY. Is that a option or something you can look into? Mine is now in a Huge Display with a Pond, Rock walls and Caves. Retirement hahahaha   
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I may have to look into that.

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_CALM Pythons_ (11-01-2018),_Dxw425_ (11-01-2018)

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## Sauzo

So how is Phyllis doing? She getting any better or eating?

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_dakski_ (11-09-2018)

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## Justin83

You could keep her in a tent with no hard sides maybe?

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## Stearns84

> You could keep her in a tent with no hard sides maybe?


A tent?

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_CALM Pythons_ (12-10-2018),_jmcrook_ (11-10-2018)

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## Justin83

I've heard of people lining vivs with fabric sides a few inches of the edge like a tent inside the Viv or large tub. It would sofen all the edges, would take alot of work to get it right.
Kinda like a padded cell. She would be unable to rub at all if done right.

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## mrhoyo

You are a very patient man, I don't know how you manage it.

We bought a GTP from a breeder a couple of years ago and whatever we did we couldn't get it to eat. After a few weeks and lots of help from the breeder it still wouldn't eat so we took it back to stay with him for a while. Within an hour of it being there it ate and didn't miss a meal over the next 6 weeks. We brought it back home and it went on strike again.
After a few weeks the breeder even came to our house to see If he could feed it or identify the problem but had no luck.
Eventually, after around 6 months of buying the snake he took it back and gave us one of the holdbacks. That ate the first night we got it home and hasn't missed a meal in the 2 years or so we've had it. Neither has the original snake now it's back with the breeder.

What I suppose I'm saying is there may just be something at your place that doesn't agree with your snake but that's not to say she wouldn't be fine elsewhere if you eventually give up trying.

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## Spoons

I just spent today and yesterday reading this whole thread. I'm impressed at your tenacity, and I definitely commend you for going to such extreme lengths to make this poor girl comfortable. Honestly, it sounds like it has been a nightmare and you're doing everything you reasonably can to keep her happy. 

I think, though, it may be time to start looking for a home for her that can provide a large space. It sounds like you've tried everything possible and the only time she wasn't obsessively pushing was when she had run of your snake room - in a large space. A zoo, maybe? someone in a surrounding state may be able to meet you to take her? It honestly sounds like she just needs a lot of space to be happy, and as it stands she's unhappy enough to be constantly injuring herself trying to wander. 

She's such a beautiful snake, I'm sorry you're dealing with this.  :Sad:  I know how hard it is to see especially when all you want is to find a way to keep her happy.

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## Sauzo

So any new news about psycho Phyllis? Did her face finally heal? Or did you jump off a bridge with her lol?

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_CALM Pythons_ (12-10-2018),_tttaylorrr_ (12-12-2018)

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## Justin83

Try Brian barcyk see if he would try in his zoo?

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_MR Snakes_ (12-13-2018)

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## CALM Pythons

How yous doin Bro? 


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_tttaylorrr_ (12-12-2018)

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## Dxw425

Hoping all is well with Phyllis, and if she has been rehome for is set to be rehome hope youre doing okay.

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_CALM Pythons_ (12-17-2018)

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