# Other Pets > Dogs >  Dog Whisperer

## abuja

I'm hoping to get a dog come winter, and have become very recently an avid follower of the Dog Whisperer. Can I get some opinions?

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## spygirl

I agree with SOME of his methods, not all. Every dog is different, so every training program is going to be different. Maybe in some microscopic way, but the program will be different. 

I AGREE with the fact that Americans tend to treat their dogs too much like people. They are not humans. They do not process thought like humans. Period. This is how you should train. You are the pack leader as the human, not the dog.

I AGREE with the fact that you must be a strong leader when training dogs. Especially (most of the time) with working breeds. You must never give up. Bad behaviors can be fixed. But you need to teach the dog how to fix bad behaviors. 

I DISAGREE with the fact that he tends to use a lot of dominance with every single dog. Yes, it gets the job done BUT I think sometimes it's too much. Sometimes a softer touch is more effective. 

I AGREE with the fact that dogs need correction. They do learn from this. 

Point is, read and research lots of different trainers and their style. Patricia McConnell is just one off the top of my head. Learn about the different tools used for training and when it is appropriate to use them. 

When I train, I tend to use a blend of several styles. I think that's a serious issue with some of today's big name trainers. They tend to stick to their own style and refuse to try anything else. 

I also strongly encourage people to attend group training classes. The experience is usually very positive for dogs and if you can train a dog with a group, then you can train a dog anywhere. 

Hope that helps some. And good luck with finding a dog!

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Artistry Exotics (09-08-2009)

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## JLC

I haven't watched any of his shows, but I have read a book or two by him.  And I agree with spygirl...it's not an all-or-nothing sort of decision to make.  Some of his principles about dog behavior and society are sound...but his methods are often questionable.  

Another trainer you can watch on Animal Planet is Victoria Stillwell (It's Me or the Dog).  She has the same principles as Caesar, but uses an entirely different method for training.  I much, much prefer her methods.  But there may be times when Caesar's more dominant/aggressive style would be more productive.  As spygirl says, every dog is different.  But in the long-run, I think Caesar's methods have far more risks of causing permanent damage to a dog...whereas Stillwell's methods won't damage, they just might not be as effective with some dogs.

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## Spaniard

I think Caesar has a great way of approaching the issues he encounters on his show.  I've watched a lot of his episodes and I've never seen anything that made me question his methods.

When it comes down to it I think he has a great understanding of the primal needs of dogs and how to correct common day issues by addressing those needs.

Here is an episode on puppy mills that you can watch on Hulu.  It shows some of the more patient techniques that Ceasar uses which don't involve the "Alpha" presence.

http://www.hulu.com/watch/89602/dog-...lls#s-p1-so-i0

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_SatanicIntention_ (09-06-2009),_snakey68_ (02-06-2010)

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## wolfy-hound

I agree with 90% of Ceaser's show.  He does take different approaches for different dogs, but he is always the alpha, even if he's not aggressively dominant.

The main thing I agree with on his shows is that he teaches the owners to behave properly with their dogs.  If they don't change how they act towards the dog, the dog doesn't behave how they want it to.  You don't train dogs, you train owners.  Also you can teach a dog 100 tricks to do on command, and it doesn't mean your dog is trained, nor that you are doing it right.

The entire "furkid" movement of making a dog into a person, rather than appreciating it for being a dog has always irked me.  Dogs are not kids.  Dogs shouldn't be treated as if they are human.  Yes, you'll get individual dogs that adjust, but mainly they are much mroe happy as valued pets, rather than damaged humans.

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_Blu Mongoose_ (08-29-2009),_littleindiangirl_ (09-07-2009),_mooingtricycle_ (08-29-2009)

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## Maize411

I agree with everything he describes! I even have his DVD box sets..lol :0)

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## sekaiNdobes

I do not agree with 95% of what he _does_ - perhaps his theory is sound, but his methods leave a lot to be desired.  Most dogs don't need to be "dominated", and as someone who assists with public obedience classes I've seen how Cesar's "methods" have trickled down to novice owners who have no business mimicking him.  I can't tell you how many times people come in and talk about how they've tried Cesar's methods... I feel bad for many of those poor dogs, they do not deserve or need the things their owners do to them in the same of Cesar.  After an 8 week course with US, and the dog is easily controlled without resorting to "dog whisperer" tactics - and the dog is actually happy to be be working for the owner.

I am not a purely positive trainer - every dog learns differently - but IMO very few dogs truly learn from what Cesar puts them through.  Flooding gets quick results, but what kind of a relationship do you build with a dog through flooding?  Not a good one, that's for sure.

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## frankykeno

I'm definitely on the fence about his methods (I was once an avid fan actually).  While I do like his ideas about pack dynamics, about being a strong leader for your dog and treating your dog as a dog, I'm not always impressed with his methods.  Granted we only do see snippets of whatever work he does with the dog so that's got to be taken into consideration.

Personally I've recently begun using a very simple training concept - NILIF - nothing in life is free - with both my dogs and I can't believe how easy it is and the nice results we are seeing from it's consistent use.  Basically it just encourages the dog to work for what it wants.  If Bella or Marrok want to be patted for instance, they must be in a sit position.  Anything else and it's a no go - no attention for hyper behaviours, pawing, climbing on us, etc.  Only calm sitting gets the attention they want.  Same with going out for a walk.  If they want out, they have to sit quietly to have their walking collars/leashes put on.  They might also get a very firm NO for unacceptable behaviours or a sharp leash correction depending on the circumstances.

I think doing dominance rolling for certain dogs would cause a worse reaction than the behaviour you are trying to correct.  It might work on some dogs but I think it's dangerous to think it works on all dogs or by just anyone doing it.

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_Repsrul_ (09-19-2009)

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## catawhat75

> I think doing dominance rolling for certain dogs would cause a worse reaction than the behaviour you are trying to correct.  It might work on some dogs but I think it's dangerous to think it works on all dogs or by just anyone doing it.



Should NOT be done by 99% of people! I am right in line with Spygirls post, very well said.

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## kazboots

I haven't watched the show in a while because the people he is training irritate me. If they would use a little common sense and basic training they wouldn't need to call Caesar in the first place. Did you see the episode where the Lady got upset because he called her dog a *gasp* "dog"?

Victoria Stillwell is okay but one thing that bothers me is no matter what the problem is, she won't allow the dog on the bed anymore. I am sorry but whether the dog sleeps with you or not has absolutely no bearing on behavior.

Clicker training is gaining popularity too but I don't agree with it because I have seen dogs that are clicker trained and if that annoying clicker is not there the dogs seem to forget their training and you shouldn't need to carry something with you to have a well-behaved dog.

I approach each dog differently, like my agility sheltie Mira, you get exited and praise her and she is happy, but her full sister Hana from a previous litter will get scared if you get act too happy and excited when she does what you want. I volunteer at an animal shelter, and do some of their grooming, some  dogs I have to be dominant with while others you have to be gentle and encouraging. Then there are the ones you look at and go 'uh no, I am not opening the cage'.

The biggest thing is starting the training right away and don't let bad behaviors pass because '(s)he's a puppy' or '(s)he's just adjusting to her/his new home' the little behaviors now are the big problems later, and younger/newer dogs tend to be easier to train because they don't know what to expect from you and how much they can get away with. Correcting behavior the first time will get better results than correcting it the fifth time. I have seen lots of little dogs with biting/aggression problems because when they were puppies they didn't cause damage or the owners thought it was cute and then the dogs are set in their ways when the people realize its a problem. Spending time on training, positive praise, and an occasional treat work pretty well, and if you don't have much experience with training a dog a competent trainer should be able to help you. Don't be afraid to shop around and ask questions, How long have they been training dogs? Do any of their dogs have obedience titles? See if you can watch a class. You want a trainer that is not afraid of telling you that you are doing something wrong. Some trainers will be afraid lose business and those that are in retail chain may worry that they will get in trouble with the boss. IMHO sometimes trainers will back off just to keep you coming back and paying, a good trainer will sometimes be blunt but the people need to know if they are messing up.
I got lucky that I have a great trainer that is close, my best friend has been training with them for years and I started going there when I got Mira.

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_cinderbird_ (12-26-2009),_frankykeno_ (09-07-2009)

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## rabernet

Just want to say - clicker training, if done properly does NOT require a clicker to mark the behavior the rest of the animal's life. My dog was clicker trained, and always gets compliments on how well she's trained. 

Part of proofing the behavior is phasing out the clicker.

We also crate trained her from the moment that we brought her home, which I believe is a MUST for a positive relationship with your puppy. If you don't set them up for failure when you aren't home, then you're not going to come home to various items torn up, or pee and poop around the house. 

She "graduated" from her crate at about 1.5-2 years old, with short sessions out of the crate while we were gone. She now no longer has her crate, but when it's pulled out for visiting dogs (Canine Assistants) she still enjoys going in it and napping in it. 

We also were there to re-direct her when she was out of her crate and grabbing something as a toy that wasn't a toy (a shoe for instance) that we removed from her and gave her an appropriate toy instead. 

And we set up clear rules for her, most of it was just intuitive to us. We knew what we considered acceptable behavior and didn't allow any less. 

This is a dog that has never had any physical punishment or corrections.

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Artistry Exotics (09-08-2009)

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## SlitherinSisters

I wouldn't say I totally agree with his ways, but I really like the fact that the puts the emphasis on the owner and tells them what they are doing wrong. He's a little harsh at times, but he knows what he's doing, it's the people who watch his shows and think they are suddenly professional trainers that make problems for him. 

Good luck finding a dog! I suggest heavily researching breeds before choosing a dog! It's extremely important (my MIL has pretty much killed two of her dogs because she didn't research the breeds first)!!!

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## kazboots

Yes, researching breeds is important, we get lots of dogs into the shelter that are doing things inherent to their breeds that a little correction as a puppy could have solved. Like the Border Collies that come in because they nip at the kid's heels.

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## juddb

I agree with Judy, i prefer "its me or the dog".  Ceaser is good at what he does, but i dont think its a good idea for people to watch his show and try "alpha rolling" and "dominance downs", these methods seem to aggressive to me and should be left to professional trainers (just my opinion), i have been very successful with my dog, just taking him for basic training at petsmart, tons of positive reinforcement, and lots of exercise and socializing with other dogs at the park.

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## nixer

ive had labs all my life and i must say that both shows have some merit, but they tend to leave out alot of the steps to training.

to the one who said letting a dog sleep with you doesnt effect behavior is dead wrong.  while an older dog sure its fine but when that cute little puppy you just got crys all night and you take it to bed with you or go lay with it you are pretty much teaching that puppy that its the boss.  

all of my dogs are taught a mixture of both ways. oh yes and paying someone to train your dog is for the most part a waste if the owner can not mimic the trainer.

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## Repsrul

I to use this technique. I have three dogs and they all know if they sit or lay down they will be rewarded with a treat or a nice scratching. I have also incorporated some Cesar's methods into training my dogs. It all comes down to knowing your dog and picking the best method. You also have to be comfortable with the training techniques. Yelling and screaming will get you know where. Remember they are an animal and as much as you may think they know right from wrong they do not. They really do feed off of your emotions. If you are upset, mad or happy they can sense that. I see that in my dogs. It takes lots of patients.     


> I'm definitely on the fence about his methods (I was once an avid fan actually).  While I do like his ideas about pack dynamics, about being a strong leader for your dog and treating your dog as a dog, I'm not always impressed with his methods.  Granted we only do see snippets of whatever work he does with the dog so that's got to be taken into consideration.
> 
> Personally I've recently begun using a very simple training concept - NILIF - nothing in life is free - with both my dogs and I can't believe how easy it is and the nice results we are seeing from it's consistent use.  Basically it just encourages the dog to work for what it wants.  If Bella or Marrok want to be patted for instance, they must be in a sit position.  Anything else and it's a no go - no attention for hyper behaviours, pawing, climbing on us, etc.  Only calm sitting gets the attention they want.  Same with going out for a walk.  If they want out, they have to sit quietly to have their walking collars/leashes put on.  They might also get a very firm NO for unacceptable behaviours or a sharp leash correction depending on the circumstances.
> 
> I think doing dominance rolling for certain dogs would cause a worse reaction than the behaviour you are trying to correct.  It might work on some dogs but I think it's dangerous to think it works on all dogs or by just anyone doing it.

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## TheOtherLeadingBrand

I said disagree. I do agree with some things he says- like extensive exercise being important. However, I believe dogs do what works to get what they want. I think dominance is a load of bullhockey, and I am a pretty (very) experienced trainer of hardcore dogs like working GSDs and field bred retrievers, rescue dogs, dogs with major behavior problems, and sensitive dogs which shut down entirely with harsh methods. 

Clicker training works- and if you do it right, you don't need the clicker after the dog learns the behavior, unless you want to shape or change the behavior later. If you need the clicker all the time, you're doing it wrong. It takes my GSD puppy about five clicks to have a new behavior down. I taught him sit, down, paw, and nose touch (touch my hand with his nose) in about five minutes each. He KNOWS what the click is. I click something, he offers it again. Once he offers it about five times, I add the word to it, and viola, association- clicker is no longer needed.

I also agree not letting the dog on the bed has nothing to do with anything, neither does who eats first or goes out a door first. Does it ever occur to these people that maybe dogs run out the door first because they're excited? Duh? lol

BTW, again, I've had some pretty serious problem dogs (Not mine- I do rescue and dog rehabilitation), and I can't name one that's ever growled at me for asking him to get off my bed or whatever. I have a confident manner with dogs- they observe me. I communicate with them- I read them, and I know them. Dogs like that. Dogs watch me because I'm worth watching. Become more interesting to your dog than any other distraction in the environment, and you've found the secret, really.

Which dog works better? The one working to avoid a neck jerk with a collar, or the one working for a chunk of meat? I don't really have to answer that, do I? Dogs aren't supposed to obey people just because they're dogs and we're people. Dogs obey us because we make it worth their while. Give up the Lassie fantasy- dogs don't live to please. And they're still awesome  :Smile:

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MissMowgli (12-26-2009)

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## TheOtherLeadingBrand

Taking the dog to bed with you because it cries doesn't make it the boss. It makes it happy because it is with you, where it wants to be. It has nothing to do with dominance. Dog cries, dog gets what dog wants. Dog cries again. Behavior has been rewarded. It will be repeated.

It's not a battle of wills. It's simple behavior modification. I sprayed Bitter Apple in my Shepherd's face when he barked in the crate. After four reptitions, he stopped and tried something else (lying down with a sigh) and I let him out and gave him a treat. Rinse and repeat- the dog hasn't cried in his crate since his first day here. Some take more repititions than others, and some dogs have genuine psychological separation anxiety problems, and a different tactic is needed.

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## americangypsy

I like the show but I think the methods  depend on the trainer to be successful .  I tried that Rollerblade trick but still have a problem with my girls staying out from under my feet . One looks at me the whole time and the other pulls me but goes from side to side  :Surprised:   I think it takes more then a show for everyday people like me to figure out how to really have a well trained dog .  :Rolleyes2:   I am still working with mine everyday . I wish I could teach them how to do the treadmill for a pre walk sprint , Then maybe I could get rid of that gentle leader that they hate so much . :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  ahhh one day one day all in all I am  glad it's on the air . I am sure it's kept alot of dogs out of the shelters just by making owners more aware of their role in the process . :Smile:  I also really like it's me or the dog .

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## lance

If we had more cesar milan's in this world helping rehabilitate those orphan dogs at shelter's and help owners of all sorts there would be less pet shelters needed as more people would have the skills to care for there pet.

lance

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## cinderbird

> Just want to say - clicker training, if done properly does NOT require a clicker to mark the behavior the rest of the animal's life. My dog was clicker trained, and always gets compliments on how well she's trained. 
> 
> Part of proofing the behavior is phasing out the clicker.
> 
> We also crate trained her from the moment that we brought her home, which I believe is a MUST for a positive relationship with your puppy. If you don't set them up for failure when you aren't home, then you're not going to come home to various items torn up, or pee and poop around the house. 
> 
> She "graduated" from her crate at about 1.5-2 years old, with short sessions out of the crate while we were gone. She now no longer has her crate, but when it's pulled out for visiting dogs (Canine Assistants) she still enjoys going in it and napping in it. 
> 
> We also were there to re-direct her when she was out of her crate and grabbing something as a toy that wasn't a toy (a shoe for instance) that we removed from her and gave her an appropriate toy instead. 
> ...


Exactly. Most dogs are very eager to please. They don't destroy things or eliminate in inappropriate places to "get back" at their owners, they do it because they don't know any better or they aren't given a proper outlet. There are a lot of people who expect puppies to be perfectly trained right out of the womb and just don't get it when they dont  behave perfectly, or are willing to hit their dogs. 

i trained my CATS. They both sit before getting their food, allow their claws to be trimmed by a single person in a single session, allow me to clean their ears or teeth (teeth are a little more of an issue, but they put up with it well), i can touch them wherever i want to examine them if i need to or if a vet needs to, etc. and they are cats, they don't respond the same way dogs do. 

When my boyfriend and i get a dog or dogs, they will be better trained than most peoples children because i won't accept anything less and we are more than willing to work with the animals to get them to that point. it will make us a happier, healthier pet home for it. 

Going back to the topic, i DONT agree with Caesar's training methods. They are old and outdated. There are much better (in my opinion) methods of training dogs that don't involve alpha rolling or that kind of aggressive dominance. Making an animal fear you is a recipe for disaster. Fear causes a lot of terrible behaviors and reactions, positive reinforcement, clicker training, crate training, etc are more appropriate ways of training dogs.

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FrostFell (02-05-2010),MissMowgli (12-26-2009)

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## Repfanaticlady28

This is a thread from a different dog forum about him. I didn't agree with his methods before I read this. I'll stick with Victoria after reading it.
http://therealpitbull.proboards.com/...play&thread=81

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## FrostFell

I loathe him. Every single thing he does and preaches is blasphemy to me. He bullies, beats, chokes, abuses, floods, and intimidates dogs into a catatonic state of utter and complete defeat. I'm sorry, I like dogs, not pet rocks! If I wanted something "calm and submissive" with no personality and no breed charactaristics I would get a stuffed animal.

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## BPelizabeth

I don't like him at all.  I do like Victoria better.  

But I have to say.....I am at fault for treating my dogs like ppl.   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):   They are not trained *very well at all*.  They certainly do not have accidents in the house...they do know who the bosses are here....and they know how to sit...and to not get on the furniture.  They also know where their beds are.  They do know their place and understand that my 9 year old son is boss as well.  BUT......that is about it.  The worst that they do is chew on trees, bushes and our drip system.  I know that I need to nip this one in the butt.  Have tried a few things but ...ugh.  

My German Shepard mix is a weirdo though.  He is very stubborn and hmmm...I guess a spoiled brat.  Don't know how else to put it.  Before we got the auto watering system he tipped his water bowl one day.  Since he did not have water for a couple of hours....he chewed the hose in half and put it in front of the door.  He also does some other stuff like that....like if he doesn't get his own way....he will chew a bush and put the limb in front of the door.  lol  

So I guess I really have no right saying I don't like him....because I am at fault for not training my dogs enough.   :Please:

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## JLC

> So I guess I really have no right saying I don't like him....because I am at fault for not training my dogs enough.


LOL...that's kind of like saying you have no right to be critical of abusive parents because your own kids can be bratty sometimes.  :Razz:   Not that I put Caesar on the same playing field with abusive parents...but the logic is about the same, I think.  

Dogs will be dogs, for sure, unless you break their spirits.  Some are just more energetic and imaginative than others.  It sounds to me like your dogs are better trained than the majority of dogs in this country...certainly looks that way if you go by all the dog-training shows on Animal Planet.  :Razz:

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_BPelizabeth_ (02-06-2010)

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## rebel750

Wow I didnt realize some of you thinks he abuses and chokes the dogs. If you dont make you dog submissive then you are not the owner, the dog is. I go at it with my parents all the time because their 2 mutts run their house. You're right though if you want something calm and cuddly get a stuffed bear. At least it wont piss on your floor.

I have had some of the best behaved dogs EVER by using most of his methods. I modded them to fit my homes needs. But he is spot on. What most people dont realize is that most of it is nothing special. It's ALOT of common sense things. My female Dobe is 95% voice activated. She know our tone of voice and what it means and what she is expected to do.

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_abuja_ (02-07-2010)

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## snakey68

I dont think you will get a definitive answer where Cesar is concerned as people will always be divided on whats best for a dog or any animal for that matter.

What I will say is he is obviously passionate about what he does and truly believes what he does is best for him and the dogs he works with.

I find myself raising the odd eyebrow when he is doing his thing but being a dog owner for most of my life I see alot of stuff that makes a lot of sense on his show as well. He has a very good understanding of dog behavior for sure and personally I wish more people did train or look after their dogs properly.

It amazes me when you see a dog on a lead pulling like crazy outside and the owner just falls behind trying to hold on , or dogs going crazy at a window when you walk by.

My biggest annoyance here in the uk I dont know what it is like anywhere else but alot of the people round my way just let their dogs crap all over the place on paths and roads and don't clean up after them. 

As far as Cesar goes I would rather people who own dogs follow his principles than none at all but I truly think that you should find the least invasive softest way of working your dog rather than the constant dominant nature that cesar professes is best for every dog.

I do see the logic behind the pack leader mentality as they are pack animals but they are very domesticated over hundreds of years as well and are not completely in tune with their ancestory IMO anyway as far as behavior goes.

You can dissagree with his methods for sure its everyones right but I think overall the fact that he is so popular and raising dog awareness and debate about it is a good thing and he should be commended for that at the least.

 He is coming near my town here in Scotland in March 2010 but he was sold out everywhere before I could even get a sniff at a ticket. :Sad:

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## WesleyTF

I disagree with a large portion of his methods.  I think a lot of the behaviors he uses are NOT the way to the top of the pack--his methods mimic those of a beta wolf, not an alpha.  Alphas tend to rule by ignoring, not by direct aggression.  Besides, the life we want our pets to lead is not parallel to one of actual wild animals.  His techniques are band-aids, not true solutions.  They are based in anecdotal experience and I think there are much more effective ways for most dogs to be trained.

Someone mentioned patricia McConnell--she's a trainer that I can really get behind.  We used her techniques with our two alaskan klee kai and people cannot believe how well trained they are--NO barking--our neighbors think we drug them--and that's from a breed known for being loud.  There is no way they do not know who is in charge...  You can be firm without imposing physical methods in training.

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## FrostFell

> Wow I didnt realize some of you thinks he abuses and chokes the dogs. If you dont make you dog submissive then you are not the owner, the dog is. I go at it with my parents all the time because their 2 mutts run their house. You're right though if you want something calm and cuddly get a stuffed bear. At least it wont piss on your floor.
> 
> I have had some of the best behaved dogs EVER by using most of his methods. I modded them to fit my homes needs. But he is spot on. What most people dont realize is that most of it is nothing special. It's ALOT of common sense things. My female Dobe is 95% voice activated. She know our tone of voice and what it means and what she is expected to do.


I think he chokes out and abuses his dogs because I SEE him choke out and abuse dogs. A chow laying flat on the group with its mouth gaping and tongue hanging, unconsious, is not "training".

His methods are nothing short of tough guy intimidation and bullying. 

ALL my dogs are the most well mannered polite "after you no after you!" dogs you could ever hope for, and they are ALL completely voice trained. I have never touched my dogs (of any of the dozen breeds I've owned), ever, in training them or getting them to do what I want. Hands on my dogs is petting only. I have never resorted to "training collars", slapping pushing pulling positioning or scruffing. These methods are barbaric, disrespectful and unnessicary. 

If someone asks you to have a seat in a chair and points to it, you do so willingly and will all speed

if someone grabs you by the collar of your shirt and starts to manhandle and strongarm you into anything, you are going to get angry. hey! why you gotta get rough, Im a reasonable guy, why dontcha just ASK!

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## rebel750

> I think he chokes out and abuses his dogs because I SEE him choke out and abuse dogs. A chow laying flat on the group with its mouth gaping and tongue hanging, unconsious, is not "training".
> 
> His methods are nothing short of tough guy intimidation and bullying. 
> 
> ALL my dogs are the most well mannered polite "after you no after you!" dogs you could ever hope for, and they are ALL completely voice trained. I have never touched my dogs (of any of the dozen breeds I've owned), ever, in training them or getting them to do what I want. Hands on my dogs is petting only. I have never resorted to "training collars", slapping pushing pulling positioning or scruffing. These methods are barbaric, disrespectful and unnessicary. 
> 
> If someone asks you to have a seat in a chair and points to it, you do so willingly and will all speed
> 
> if someone grabs you by the collar of your shirt and starts to manhandle and strongarm you into anything, you are going to get angry. hey! why you gotta get rough, Im a reasonable guy, why dontcha just ASK!


I kinda agree with you but remember these are not social dogs he deals with. They are already aggresive and a danger to other dogs and people. Drastic measures are often needed to change a dog. I wont "choke out" my new puppy but I will use the submissive technique just as I did my adult Dobe and she knows her place as well as the new pup will know his. BUT they had a clean slate to begin with. They were not endangering anybody to start with so more aggresive actions were not needed.

His methods work for many and many it does not. And no he has never rendered an animal unconsious on national TV. You think he would have a show still honestly. PETA would be all up in his junk. If he did do that to a dog Im sure they would edit it out. The techniques have worked for me as asking your dog politely may work for you. 

I spank my kids, so now Im a bully and act barbaric. But at least my kids dont act like satans offspring in public like countless kids I see everyday. Dogs sadly enough are not too much different.

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_snakey68_ (02-06-2010)

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## FrostFell

Oh so if a dog is mentally unstable its OK to use scare tactics on it?

If a dog is so unstable you can't "reason" with it, it needs to be euth'd. Not  beat into "submission" and so much fear put into it that it mentally shuts down. Yes, mentally shut down is what Cesar calls "calm submission". Dogs that don't think and don't act and don't piss without permission. Even if its a complete and utter psychopath knucklehead it still deserves to be treated with compassion. Being a jerk doesn't give others the right to smack you around in retribution.

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## snakey68

> I kinda agree with you but remember these are not social dogs he deals with. They are already aggresive and a danger to other dogs and people. Drastic measures are often needed to change a dog. I wont "choke out" my new puppy but I will use the submissive technique just as I did my adult Dobe and she knows her place as well as the new pup will know his. BUT they had a clean slate to begin with. They were not endangering anybody to start with so more aggresive actions were not needed.
> 
> His methods work for many and many it does not. And no he has never rendered an animal unconsious on national TV. You think he would have a show still honestly. PETA would be all up in his junk. If he did do that to a dog Im sure they would edit it out. The techniques have worked for me as asking your dog politely may work for you. 
> 
> I spank my kids, so now Im a bully and act barbaric. But at least my kids dont act like satans offspring in public like countless kids I see everyday. Dogs sadly enough are not too much different.


good post, I think it should be clear he has never choked a dog unconscious on tv and I doubt he ever has tbh 

Sometimes you can see the dog is lost with no direction and the owners have no clue whatsoever and it is clear they are doing more harm than good. 

What is sad is that anyone can own a dog, anyone can take control of an intelligent caring animal like a dog and treat it as they see fit.

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## rebel750

> Oh so if a dog is mentally unstable its OK to use scare tactics on it?
> 
> If a dog is so unstable you can't "reason" with it, it needs to be euth'd. Not  beat into "submission" and so much fear put into it that it mentally shuts down. Yes, mentally shut down is what Cesar calls "calm submission". Dogs that don't think and don't act and don't piss without permission. Even if its a complete and utter psychopath knucklehead it still deserves to be treated with compassion. Being a jerk doesn't give others the right to smack you around in retribution.


The more I read from you the more I'm wondering if you have actually seen the show. He doesnt smack the dogs around or beat them into submission, thats just a completely ignorant thing to say. He is by no means abusive. Rolling a dog onto their back or side and "restraining" (not beating)them until they calm down is a common practice in reprograming an agressive/dominant dog. They do it because it works.

I see worse on Cops and nobody defends the guy who broke into your house and whooped your ass. Compassion isnt always the key. Otherwise there would be a zero crime rate and world peace.

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## qiksilver

I've started watching his show lately, and I feel as though I'm missing something based on the choking and beating things people are talking about.  Are we all watching the same guy?  I haven't watched much, but he's been pretty sweet to a few of the dogs he's dealt with.  The only real thing that gave me pause was the desensitization of this dobie/greyhound mix that was terrified of everything.  He would overload her senses, but then he would be really sweet to her.  I don't know.  Didn't seem like a jerk watching those few episodes.

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## FrostFell

There was a chow mix of some kind in one episode that didnt like being restrained by strangers. Very typical Chow thing, nothing out of the ordinary. Cesar marched in there, got all up in the dogs face and tried to walk him around on a leash and boss him, and the dog, like a very typically and very normal Chow Chow, told Cesar where to shove it, so Cesar hung him until he showed "calm submission".

Those of you brainwashed into this alpha rolling thing need to take a better look at real dog behavior and how the submissives behave around real alphas, not wannabe tough guys who try to be alpha. They FLING themselves down and offer their bellies, NOTHING and NO ONE ever touches them or in any way coerces or forces them into this position of submission, its FREELY offered when the dog feels that you are its leader. Forcing the position doesn't turn the animals brain down that path if its not already there. Smile all you like, if your mother just died, your dog got ran over, your boss fired you, and you have no money and no friends and no hope, SMILING is not going to make you happy. Being happy makes you smile. Smiling doesn't make you happy.

Feeling submissive makes you dog roll over to you. Rolling your dog over doesn't make him feel submissive.

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## FrostFell

You know, nevermind. Clearly I  have very different views on whats acceptable to do to my fellow creatures.

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## Clear

It seems like a few people that have commented has never watched the show. With some of the ones that has commented use his techniques without knowing about it and blast him for it. Very funny and I wont point fingers.

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## BPelizabeth

I have to say....in no defense of this guy.  With Joe who is my German Shepard mix...who I think is 90% GS.  When he was a puppy and up to about 7 months old he would snap at my son.  We did roll him over...very gentally and I had Tristen put his hand on his lower stomach and a hand gentally on his neck and stare in his eyes and say no.  This was not a mean thing and we were very gental with him.  It took about 6 times doing this right after he snapped at my son.  He has never ever done it since.  Now with that being said....again it was not a rough thing....we did not hold his neck tight at all...it was a gental hand.  Afterwards he was rewarded and loved on by Tristen.  

We tend to be very gental with our animals as I believe if you train them roughly....they will just be scared of you.  I hate to see animals that look scared of their owners.  Just today we were outside and apparently the neighbors dog pee'd in the house.  I think he must of hit the dog a few times because he was screaming and the dog was yelping.  It was terrible and my GS almost hopped the fence and went after the guy.  Again....I am not a training person.....I don't train my dogs much.  (Bad me)....but I do have faithful dogs that would not stand for anyone coming in and hurting us...and they are super happy carefree paw paws.

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## JLC

> It seems like a few people that have commented has never watched the show. With some of the ones that has commented use his techniques without knowing about it and blast him for it. Very funny and I wont point fingers.


I haven't seen his shows....but I've read his books.  I read a LOT of books about dog training and relating to dogs before I committed to owning one myself....and those books included his.

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## qiksilver

> You know, nevermind. Clearly I  have very different views on whats acceptable to do to my fellow creatures.


I believe you're overreacting.  Not to the show, but to what people on this forum are saying, this is a forum for DISCUSSION after all.  I haven't seen him hang or beat a dog, and I have no idea what you're talking about.  But you're dismissing everyone needlessly.  

I would agree that all dominance all the time is inappropriate, but I don't think that's what I saw in the few episodes I've watched, he seems to take different approaches with different dogs.  But I'm sure if I watched him torture a dog like you say you've seen I'd react similarly

Ok, that's all.

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_snakey68_ (02-07-2010)

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## rebel750

> I believe you're overreacting.  Not to the show, but to what people on this forum are saying, this is a forum for DISCUSSION after all.  I haven't seen him hang or beat a dog, and I have no idea what you're talking about.  But you're dismissing everyone needlessly.  
> 
> I would agree that all dominance all the time is inappropriate, but I don't think that's what I saw in the few episodes I've watched, he seems to take different approaches with different dogs.  But I'm sure if I watched him torture a dog like you say you've seen I'd react similarly
> 
> Ok, that's all.


Good call!

That type of training isnt always needed. Unfortunately his show deals with primarily those behaviors, so that is the training you see show after show. Every dog is different those techniques obviously wont work for every owner and every dog. But it just so happens to work for me.

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## snakey68

I think the poll is a pretty good reflection on how most feel about the dog whisperer and his techniques.

Most people "appear" to agree with him, and some don't, which is fair enough, I think in most things in life you will always have some form of controversy about how it is done or perceived its human nature.

I don't like to be told I am brainwashed because I see something different from someone else either but I am not going to get drawn into an argument about an opinion which is basically what we all have here.

Lastly, regardless I do think it is good that the dog whisperer is drawing attention to dogs and their owners in general I think or hope that it does raise more awareness because a lot of dog owners have Zero control of their animals and we read and hear about some of the tragedies due to simple ignorance and neglect on the part of a dog owner.

I think there are far too many dog owners who should not be dog owners but unfortunately any fool idiot or sadistic person can own one I wish there were some compulsory requirements for owning dogs to make the dogs life easier 1st and foremost and educate some of the people that obviously require it.

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## rebel750

Unfortunately you are correct. People that often times cant take care of themselves drag an innocent animal into their life.

A dogs behavior is generally a direct reflection of the effort or lack of effort used in raising it. A Pit will not just wander into the street and attack every thing it comes across. The "bad" dogs are a result from BAD owners.

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## snakey68

> Unfortunately you are correct. People that often times cant take care of themselves drag an innocent animal into their life.
> 
> A dogs behavior is generally a direct reflection of the effort or lack of effort used in raising it. A Pit will not just wander into the street and attack every thing it comes across. The "bad" dogs are a result from BAD owners.


exactly that's it in a nutshell mate.

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## EsotericForest

I agree with the majority of his methods...most of which are similar methods to what I originally learned when raising Leader Dogs for the Blind.  I've owned dogs my entire life, and have never had a dog that I down right couldn't train.

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