# Site General > Off-topic Cafe > Introduce Yourself! >  RarePythons Stay Or Go, You Choose

## RarePythons

I am putting the same post up on Fauna, but I figured since I tried to reach out here and received much the same reaction, by many of the same people it would only be fair to give BP.Net members the option as well.  The only difference is here I have not, and cannot advertise either way.  

Well it seems pretty clear to me that there are a lot of people who very much dislike me. When I say dislike I'm referring to vulgar name calling (F'in scammer, bottomfeeder, trash, etc.), flaming classifieds, demanding I leave the industry, etc.

Maybe some of members don't hate me, but when I see 1/2 of a members total posts consisting of solely bashing every thread I speak on, it get's a bit frustrating.

I've tried to defend myself on over 100 posts, but still seemingly to no avail for some.

Quick Recap From My Perspective For The Past 200 pages of Threads:

Fauna member claims are underlined:

You are another scammer named Chris from the Buffalo area: Proven To Not Be

You don't have proper housing for your animals: You've seen my rack setup, I think it's fine, others apparently don't.

The hets your selling on your site are not hets (Feb 07): Posted pictured paperwork proving they were hets from Joe Compel and Cypress Creek.


You claim to hatch out over a 1,000 eggs, that's B.S.: I posted pics of incubator room and did hatch out over 1,000 eggs in '07.

Well then you were GOING to sell CH as hets: Never happened, never was going to, and this past year has proven that I believe without a shadow of a doubt.

I also agreed not to sell hets, only possibles so I could never be accused of it.

Then I was attacked for selling only possible hets as it would confuse people, thus I would still be scamming, so there really is no way to win on that one.

You posted pictures from other websites on your own in your banner: Yes I did and apologizes for it, and took them down immediately.

You claimed to work on a genetically modified snake, but your a liar as that's not possible, thus liar and scammer: 8 months later it was proven by a members research that I in fact am involved in genetically modified animals research, despite my resistance to comment on it publicly.

You didn't quarantine your imports in 07, thus your animals are all garbage. I didn't know I needed to quarantine them back them, but luckily had no problems. This year I did a full quarantine in a separate room.

You posted Desert Ghosts and other WC morphs on your site, and they are not, thus you are a scammer I bought the animals from Millennium Morphs when I bought out Adam/Mike. That was what I was told they were and they even told me the pricing to list each animal. Members on here complained and said they weren't, so I pulled them down (guess I got suckered on it).

The only customer complaint is from ReptileJay claiming that he received unhealthy mice from me at my shop, not at the Buffalo show where he bought others that were healthy. I did not recall selling him mice that were sick in any way, shape, or form. All of the mice in our racks are healthy and just fine. He admits to not have contacted me at all about the animals until posting a complaint here, for which I offered a full refund or replacement at his discretion (months later), which was refused by him.

I asked one of my volunteers to post on Fauna about his dealings with me, and he put up a Good Guy thread, which was again flamed, and he was even attacked to a degree by a few members, before some others asked them to back off of him.


Well that's a quick synopsis, but I'm sure I'm leaving a bunch out, but feel free to read the full BOI threads if you wish.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...d.php?t=123041

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...ht=rarepythons

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...ht=rarepythons


Now I'm leaving it to members of BP.Net. If you want me to leave the community, you can vote in the poll. If the majority of members want me to pack up and leave the forum I will. I'm not going to leave the industry, but I will keep off of BP.net if that is the consensus.

I'll let the poll run to the start of the new year (Jan. 1st), and at that point I'll voluntarily pull off of Fauna completely.

Ball python breeding is a business for me first, and a 'hobby' as a distant second. I do not love the animals like some claiming to give 5 kisses before a shipment, but I'm not hosing anyone either.

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## Shadera

> Ball python breeding is a business for me first, and a 'hobby' as a distant second.


99.9% of us put the love of the animals and the hobby first and put the business end second if at all.

You've shown time and again that there's no reason at all to want to do business with you because of your ethics.  

Stay or leave, I honestly don't care.  But quit being so emo about it.

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_ADEE_ (12-27-2008),_anendeloflorien_ (12-30-2008),_catawhat75_ (12-27-2008),_Kristy_ (12-28-2008),_lillyorchid_ (12-27-2008),_mooingtricycle_ (12-27-2008),Muze (12-27-2008),_pythontricker_ (12-31-2008)

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## Royal Morphz

Chris I don't know much about you but the little i do know has put you in a bad light. I think you have messed up any chance here to sell any of your animals here or on Fauna. So with that said i say very elatedly don't let the door hit ya where the man up stairs split ya. I wish you good luck in life and with your other endevors, but as you are in the frame of mind that BP breeding  is a money maker and not a hobby Ball Pythons aren't for you

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## butters!

by you saying bp's is first a buisness then a hobby speaks for itself.i have nothing against ch animals but how you advertise them is lower than low.if i woulda spent 3 or 4 years trying to prove something out and never happened i would come looking for you.you have screwed up your reputation so bad and to come here and test this site is pathetic.

GET THE HELL OUTTA HERE!

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_pythontricker_ (12-31-2008)

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## Bruce Whitehead

This is by far the most ridiculous poll I have seen yet.

How much attention do you need?

Bruce

PS: You left out the option of...

*I do not give a snakes cloaca if you stay or go*

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_anendeloflorien_ (12-30-2008),babygerl3094 (12-27-2008),_Beardedragon_ (12-27-2008),_catawhat75_ (12-27-2008),hobbyist (12-27-2008),_katiadarling_ (12-27-2008),_Kristy_ (12-28-2008),_mooingtricycle_ (12-27-2008),Muze (12-27-2008),_pythontricker_ (12-31-2008),_Shadera_ (12-27-2008),_starmom_ (12-27-2008)

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## OhBalls

Getting into this hobby, I purchased my firsy ball python because I felt sorry for it.  He was wild caught.  He didn't eat and it was VERY obvious that he was unhappy.  He was very weak and I was forced to assist feed.  Luckily, he made it through and is now my most docile snake.  But just knowing that he was taken from his natural home and forced into captivity (which caused stress enough for him to possibly expire), really broke my heart.  I have NO respect for people who take snakes from the wild for profit.  I have ZERO compassion for someone who thinks it's okay  because that is where they originated.  
There are enough IN captivity and there is no need for someone who lacks the understanding and respect these animals deserve.

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_Wh00h0069_ (12-30-2008)

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## STORMS

I don't know you, but from what I have just read... I don't care to  :Wag of the finger:

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## Jerhart

> I don't know you, but from what I have just read... I don't care to


I agree with whatever lena says  :Wink:

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## dsirkle

> This is by far the most ridiculous poll I have seen yet.
> 
> How much attention do you need?
> 
> Bruce
> 
> PS: You left out the option of...
> 
> *I do not give a snakes cloaca if you stay or go*


I couldn't express my thoughts on the matter any better than Bruce has already done here.

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## fishmommy

save the drama
for yer mama

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## monk90222

Who are you?

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## Beardedragon

This is the dumbest poll ive ever seen.

Its all up to you. Leave for a little while... come back and SHOW and PROVE that you have changed, so much that we do not even remember the old/this you.  Maybe you have now, but really theres alot of bad rep following you. I put you are welcomed to stay, because if you are willing to stick around and learn and become active maybe people will see the better side of you if there really is one.

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_llovelace_ (12-31-2008),_Shadera_ (12-28-2008)

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## grammie

> I don't know you, but from what I have just read... I don't care to


same here.

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## wilomn

AHahahahAHAHAhahahahahaHAHAHahahah hah 

Oh my gosh, I just about fell out of my chair for this one.

I just spoke with my pal Protoplasmic Pete, Pelagic Wanderer and lover of rubber boobs. He says to tell you you're out of the Jelly Club. Something about babysitting and pity parties and continual whining about how no body likes you.

You've been told what to do. 

You've been told politely.

You've been told not so politely.

GO!

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Ammodawg (12-27-2008),_anendeloflorien_ (12-30-2008),_mooingtricycle_ (12-27-2008)

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## hobbyist

Honestly, no one on here cares much if people stay or go-- just from the looks of it though, if you're gonna stay, just dont talk much business for some time. 
Plus, if your old enough to run a business, your old enough to make up your own mind.
Your welcome here, no one will kick you out, but we dont want the drama

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_Beardedragon_ (12-27-2008),_broadude_ (12-27-2008),_Shadera_ (12-28-2008)

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## AaronP

See Ya.

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## Emilio

I think the poll is missing an important option, I really don't care if you stay or go but maybe this forum is exactly what you need to better get a handle on what your running over there. And I disagree with some of our members saying this thread is bad I think its a great example of why we need to really do our homework when making any purchases.


So I didn't vote my opinion is I don't care.

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## Wild Bill

Don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya!!!!  :Good Job:

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## lillyorchid

BP.Net does not like scammers, liars on this site so why are you still around? I would have had banned you.

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## ReptileJay

I thought it was absurd enough that you posted this poll on fauna... but you have definitely outdone yourself by posting it on HERE, since you've only been a member for... what.... 16 days???

HILARIOUS!!!

Anyway, I've said about all I have to say about you on Fauna, so I'm not going to repeat myself here... long story short... Either do it for the animals, or don't do it at all.

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_broadude_ (12-28-2008),_Shadera_ (12-28-2008)

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## stevenkeogh

I wish my lawn was emo, then it would cut itself.
-Steven

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_pythontricker_ (12-31-2008)

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## Mike Cavanaugh

Peace Out.

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## Peter Williams

Leave.

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_pythontricker_ (12-31-2008)

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## JLC

I know I'm a little late weighing in on this thread...and normally I don't like to poke a hornet's nest after it's calmed down.  But there are some issues here that I feel very strongly about addressing.  This will probably be a somewhat long and "lecture-y" read...so go ahead and stop now if you don't feel up to it. I don't even know if Chris is still reading this thread...but if he is, this is to him....as well as to any other who thinks they can just jump into the Ball Python "game" without a shred of knowledge, background, or credibility. 

First, I want to address some VERY glaring inconsistencies and outright lies in your statements, Chris. 




> Thanks for the advise..I joined this forum knowing full well I can't advertise on it, but rather just partake in some learning, sharing, and I was hoping friendly discussion as the header implies "friendliest online herp community".


You did NOT join here knowing you could not advertise.  You joined here so you COULD advertise.  And that is exactly what you tried to do the day you signed up.  When the connection was made to the BOI threads and your seriously questionable businesses and ethics, your ad was pulled and you were informed about why.  

Only later did you come back and ask if you could still participate on the site, even though you were barred from advertising.  I said you could, but I also warned you that you would be under the same sort of scrutiny that you found at Fauna.  Not because we're "mean" or out to get anyone.  But because your own words and actions beg the questions from anyone with a hint of intelligence and a shred of decency. 

Stuff like this, for instance:




> I've never really gotten into other reptiles, and originally got into BP's for the money, but I've really gotten into the hobby and truly enjoy them.





> Ball python breeding is a business for me first, and a 'hobby' as a distant second. I do not love the animals like some claiming to give 5 kisses before a shipment, but I'm not hosing anyone either.


At least you were honest at Fauna when you said you were just in it for the money you thought you could make.  When you found out that philosophy was deeply frowned upon, you tried to backpeddle here and tried to sound like you actually liked the animals.  But it didn't take long for that to break down as well and you reverted to your original statements about money-first and animals-second.  And not just second....but a "distant" second at that. 

These are living, breathing, _feeling_ creatures.  Not boxes of shoes, or trading cards, or even shady boxes intended to be used for illegal purposes.  I'm sure you'll find others of your ilk out there who are into the reptile world simply for the money they can get out of it.  Maybe you guys need to create your own site where you can pat each other on the back at how cleverly you pull the wool over some newbies eyes....trade and market amongst yourselves....and leave the rest of the 99% of the reptile community out of it because we LOVE the animals.  We're here because we love them.  And you will never get that or understand it....and therefore will always be butting heads with the rest of us. 

It's not a matter of whether or not you are liked as a person.  It's your philosophies, motivations, and practices that are being "attacked" and questioned.  The people who question are the ones who spend years and years educating themselves and learning about the animals they have chosen to care for.  And yes, even make money from.  There's nothing wrong with making money doing something you love to do.  But if you don't love it....if you don't love the animals....how can any of us trust that your animals are well cared for?  It takes a *LOT* of work to maintain a collection large enough to turn a real profit on.  It's a full-time job that *rarely* turns out a full-time income.   So what makes any of us think you would actually take proper care of animals you don't even seem to like very much?  

And if you don't love them...aren't fascinated by them....how on earth do you expect to learn anything about them?  It takes a tremendous amount of study...in books, online, and seeing them in person, as well as years of hands-on experience....to learn all you should know to run a reputable breeding (or even trading/flipping) business.  At this point, you don't even know enough to flip someone else's collection....how in the world would anyone trust you to suddenly know enough to import and classify morphs or know what your breeding pairings will actually produce? 

All that you've said and done up to this point....all the "answers" you try to give to the questions you choose to answer (a LOT of questions also go completely ignored...don't think people don't notice that)......all of this can only lead to two conclusions:  

1.  Giving you a huge benefit of the doubt that you have not really earned....one might think that you're a sincere guy who doesn't want to scam anyone intentionally, but have found yourself up to your neck in ball pythons that you need to sell....but can't be bothered to actually learn anything about because you don't really care....you just need to get rid of them and will say whatever it takes to get people to believe you're a decent guy...

OR

2.  You're nothing but a scammer who has found himself stuck with hundreds (or thousands???) of ball pythons worth a tiny fraction of what you claim and you'll say or do anything it takes to recoup some of your investment.  

Either way, there are very few options for you to go forward with.  If #2 is true....then do, please, tuck tail and go away.  If #1 is true...then resign yourself to actually learn how to CARE for the animals you have....sit back and watch and learn and be patient....and maybe in a few years, you'll actually be ready to market some.

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_anendeloflorien_ (12-30-2008),_blackcrystal22_ (12-31-2008),_Blu Mongoose_ (12-31-2008),_Bruce Whitehead_ (12-30-2008),dr del (12-30-2008),_dsirkle_ (12-31-2008),_katiadarling_ (12-30-2008),_Kesslers Kreatures_ (12-31-2008),_LGL_ (12-31-2008),_littleindiangirl_ (12-30-2008),_Melicious_ (12-30-2008),_Mike Cavanaugh_ (12-31-2008),Muze (12-30-2008),_OhBalls_ (12-31-2008),ReptileJay (12-31-2008),_SecurityStacey_ (01-01-2009),_Shadera_ (12-30-2008),Stewart_Reptiles (12-30-2008),_STORMS_ (12-31-2008),_ThyTempest_ (01-07-2009),TooManyToys (12-30-2008),_Wild Bill_ (12-30-2008)

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## anendeloflorien

Amen to that ^^^ Judy. The fact alone that he says simply



> "Ball python breeding is a business for me first, and a 'hobby' as a distant second"


is a slap in the face to those of us who keep and care for these animals because we LOVE them and are fascinated by them. He thought he could make a quick buck buying a bunch of WC gravids and pawning off the babies, well guess what buddy? It doesn't quite work like that. Most of the people that actually make it as a business in this industry have spent *years* building their reputation and learning all that they can about the animals they keep and the customers who they strive to take care of. You obviously have not done any of that. 
This thread and your poll is IMO just a pathetic attempt to get everyone off your back and I think you should be ashamed. 

SEE YA!  :Dancin' Banana:

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## sg1trogdor

> I know I'm a little late weighing in on this thread...and normally I don't like to poke a hornet's nest after it's calmed down.  But there are some issues here that I feel very strongly about addressing.  This will probably be a somewhat long and "lecture-y" read...so go ahead and stop now if you don't feel up to it. I don't even know if Chris is still reading this thread...but if he is, this is to him....as well as to any other who thinks they can just jump into the Ball Python "game" without a shred of knowledge, background, or credibility. 
> 
> First, I want to address some VERY glaring inconsistencies and outright lies in your statements, Chris. 
> 
> 
> 
> You did NOT join here knowing you could not advertise.  You joined here so you COULD advertise.  And that is exactly what you tried to do the day you signed up.  When the connection was made to the BOI threads and your seriously questionable businesses and ethics, your ad was pulled and you were informed about why.  
> 
> Only later did you come back and ask if you could still participate on the site, even though you were barred from advertising.  I said you could, but I also warned you that you would be under the same sort of scrutiny that you found at Fauna.  Not because we're "mean" or out to get anyone.  But because your own words and actions beg the questions from anyone with a hint of intelligence and a shred of decency. 
> ...


Very well said.   :Good Job:  :Good Job:

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## Wh00h0069

I don't care one way or the other if you leave or stay. I will say that I do not agree with your business practices; for example, selling captive hatched and wild caught. I will never do business with you.

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Muze (12-30-2008),_STORMS_ (12-31-2008)

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## wilomn

Judy, this clown is not an idiot, he's just narcissistic. 

Over a year ago he was told the very same thing on fauna.

He opted then as now for a pity party instead.

That's why he's no longer welcome at Jelly Central.

Buy, sell, breed, flip, do whatever you want to make money in this business and damn all the neighsayers is my general motto BUT, you must know what you're doing. 

Dude, LEARN anything and you'll be better off than you are now.

However, since you seem to shy away from the actual attainment of knowledge, I'd advise you, again, to move on.

You're not smart enough to realize that your ignorance is blatantly obvious. You're not dealing with stoners only here. Some of these folks can retain memories longer than a few minutes. You've given a plethora of memories that show you in a very bad light.

But you know this and I begin to repeat myself.

Just another friggin mosquito in the big picture, swatted, wounded, but refusing to die just yet.

Who's got that big can of Raid?

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_pythontricker_ (12-31-2008),_Shadera_ (12-31-2008),_STORMS_ (12-31-2008)

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## pythontricker

> Who are you?


he is feces

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## TheMolenater2

14 posts and your asking if you should stay or leave? I haven't heard about you but the hobby and compassion for the animals should always come before the business.

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## MDB

All I have to say is wow, I say stick around and learn something, you have obviously been banned from the classifieds so in my opinion if there are no sales than there cannot be any scams. Dont get me wrong Im not calling you a scammer I dont know you from Joe, but unfortunately for you there seems to be alot of people who dont think very highly of you, but instead of tucking your tail and running why dont you take a deep breath, take responsibility for the things that you may or may not have done, and than take the time to prove everybody wrong and change your ways. This is my first year breeding ball pythons and I am loving every moment of it, I am obviously a newbie and ten years from now I will still be a newbie because in this hobby you learn something new everyday. I am voting for you to stay, why? Because you have the right to be here just as much as the next guy, maybe certain members dont think so but oh well thats a right you have. Im sure I will get plenty of bashing responses for this but I am not the type of member who is going to loose sleep over it. I say for now forget all about the dollar signs, and wine and dine those babys :Good Job:

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## blackcrystal22

_I_ will never purchase WC/WH unless it looks like a project and it's through some type of connection.
_I_ will never purchase from someone who does not share the compassion for the animals as I do.
_I_ will never associate myself with someone that is trying to run this business just for the money, and not the experience, knowledge, or enjoyment. With any other business, money may be alright, but living breathing creatures is a completely different matter. 

_I_ will never purchase from you. Because you fit all of these things, and you bring up polls looking for attention and wondering if anyone cares if you stay'. I used to Admin on this one old kiddy forum, where we had to make a rule against polls like this, because it got so out of hand.. and immature. 

I pray, for the animals' sake, that you learn something, and give them to someone who will properly care for them with compassion and _love_.

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