# Lizards > Monitors and Tegus >  small monitor or good beginner monitor?

## dizzy

What are some of the smaller monitors out there? 

How hard are they to care for? Most of the problems I hear of people having with monitors are space issues with large breeds or parasite issues with WCs... Is a smaller CB monitor difficult to care for? Aggresive? 

How big do the blue tree monitors get? What size cage requirements? Aggresive? They're pretty  :Smile:

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## Michelle.C

I'd either go for a Ackie (Varanus acanthurus), or if you have the space a Savannah Monitor (Varanus exanthematicus). 

Ackies stay quite small, and they can be "tamed" down a bit. 

Savannah's are quite large, but they can be "tamed" down a lot.

Personally, I like Tegus more. 

Just make sure you get a CB, well acclimated animal and you'll be fine. Each Monitor/Tegu has it's own specifics of care. Most are pretty simple to care for. Proper basking, UV (if required), decent sized enclosure, lots of food.

Certain Dwarf Monitors are quite fragile and wouldn't be a suggested beginner at all, however; these animals are generally in the $600 plus price range.

Blue Tree Monitors have just started becoming available to the pet trade. Most are quite fragile. I'm not sure on Captive Size or Care. Sorry.

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dizzy (03-08-2009)

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## BSM

The best small monitor to start out with are either yellow or red ackies, they are very active and are the easiest to care for. They can live in a 4x2x3 with a sold top +foot of dirt and around a 130 to 140f basking spot and mostly eat insects. Ackies will come right up to you there not shy at all and average 15 to 24 inches.



> How big do the blue tree monitors get? What size cage requirements? Aggresive? They're pretty


 Def. stay away, tree monitors are best left to more experienced keepers, they require alot more then most monitors. They get in the 3-4ft and are the largest of the tree monitor species, they need tons of hides, high humidity, and need to settle in to captivity as 99.9% are WC. Some people say there's are CBB ask for proof (egg pics,breeding,hatching). They need a extremely tall cage in the range of 8ft tall as they feel safer/better over your head

Whats the largest cage you can have?


Bryan

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_Chris Behof_ (05-07-2009),dizzy (03-08-2009)

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## dizzy

> Whats the largest cage you can have?
> 
> Bryan



I don't know but I can't imagine I'd be real limited... I'm looking to move right now and planning on getting a 2 bedroom so I can have a reptile room. I'm in the process of switching the BPs to tubs so the room will be pretty empty. I'm looking to hopefully get a chameleon and a chinese water dragon too... Nothing set in stone, just researching and drooling over pretty scaley things for now.  :Very Happy: 


Sounds like I'll be looking into Ackies... That's a type of monitor? I've heard of Ackie but I don't know that I've seen one. I'll have to google.

Thanks.

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## BSM

here are some pics of my 1.2 trio of yellow ackies that i have just sold. I didnt plan on selling them but i have decided to only work with monitors from the gouildi complex for now.






Bryan

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dizzy (03-12-2009)

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## daniel1983

For a small monitor species, I would recommend ackies as well. Yellow ackies will be cheaper, are smaller than red ackies, and are generally more mellow.  




> Certain Dwarf Monitors are quite fragile and wouldn't be a suggested beginner at all, however; these animals are generally in the $600 plus price range.


Actually all of the dwarf monitors in the US are pretty hardy monitors. The rarity and price of species like v. caudilineatus is why most people do not keep them. You don't find many beginners willing to wait 6-8 months for some to become available then drop $4500 for a trio of v. gilleni even though they probably the best monitors a person could ever own.

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dizzy (03-12-2009)

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## Michelle.C

> For a small monitor species, I would recommend ackies as well. Yellow ackies will be cheaper, are smaller than red ackies, and are generally more mellow.  
> 
> 
> 
> Actually all of the dwarf monitors in the US are pretty hardy monitors. The rarity and price of species like v. caudilineatus is why most people do not keep them. You don't find many beginners willing to wait 6-8 months for some to become available then drop $4500 for a trio of v. gilleni even though they probably the best monitors a person could ever own.


I had heard that Varanus glauerti were pretty fragile as neonates. Along with a few others, maybe I am remembering them incorrectly. 

While I'm not really interested in most Dwarf Monitors, a friend of mine breeds them. So I don't know an extreme amount about them, but I get some trickle down knowledge from a few breeders.  :Smile:

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## southb

The 4x2x3 you speak about sounds alot like a 55 gallon tanks measurements.  If a 55 is all you need for one animal I might be getting an ackie soon.  I'll have to research the other requirements though.

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## Skiploder

> The 4x2x3 you speak about sounds alot like a 55 gallon tanks measurements.  If a 55 is all you need for one animal I might be getting an ackie soon.  I'll have to research the other requirements though.


A 55 gallon aquarium is a less than ideal choice for an ackie.  They do a poor job of allowing for proper humidity levels, they lose heat fairly fast, they aren't strong enough to hold the deep soil subsrate that ackies love, etc., etc.

Ackies have very specific needs in terms of basking temperature, humidity, substrate depth and type, hydration and thermoregulation requirements.  Glass tanks make it very difficult to meet these needs.

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## southb

So even with a custom lid thats not vented like a screen top, it wouldn't hold the humidity in good enough?  Thanks for letting me know.  I read somewhere the sub needs to be around a foot deep for an ackie.  Sounds like alot of stuff lol.

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## Skiploder

> So even with a custom lid thats not vented like a screen top, it wouldn't hold the humidity in good enough?  Thanks for letting me know.  I read somewhere the sub needs to be around a foot deep for an ackie.  Sounds like alot of stuff lol.



If the screen was replaced with something solid or blocked off, it could make it easier to achieve the proper humidity range.

You then still have to contend with temp gradient issues, lack of proper substrate depth and the other limitations imposed by a glass tank.

Also, a good ackie substrate like decomposed granite has a density of 167 pounds per cubic foot.  Aquariums are designed for retaining water, which has a density of 62 pounds per cubic foot.

BTW:  a 55 gallon is less than 2' wide - more like 12".  That's too narrow for a 2' long animal.  A standard 90 gallon is too narrow.  

A 120 gallon tank (the 4' variety) is 2' wide.  Anything less is too narrow and therefore unsuitable for an adult ackie.

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_Chris Behof_ (05-07-2009),Reptile Man (03-14-2009)

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## dizzy

Thanks everyone. I googled ackies and the red ones are really cool looking. They get bigger than the yellow ones? That's strange. I would have thought it would just be a color morph. But then again I have ball pythons on the brain lol. How much bigger do the reds get? 

If you have 2 red ackies can you house them together? What about 2 yellow ackies?

I want a burrowing animal! I totally want a big cage full of dirt and things living underground in it. Yay. I have to have one. In a few months lol. Gotta move first.

Do you have to handle them super frequently to have them docile? I know with like a ferret you have to have them out of their cage like 4 hours a day... Of course reptiles and mammals are pretty different but the only lizards I've had were leos and they tolerated/didn't seem to enjoy being handled no matter how frequently or infrequently I handled them. Same with my snakes, really. They ball up at first then they roam around, whether I hold them every day or once a week.

Realisticaly I don't think that I would be able to handle the Ackie every single day. Probably every other day though, or something like that...

Thanks

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## Skiploder

> Thanks everyone. I googled ackies and the red ones are really cool looking. They get bigger than the yellow ones? That's strange. I would have thought it would just be a color morph. But then again I have ball pythons on the brain lol. How much bigger do the reds get?


Both reds and yellows grow from 24" to 30" but that is dependent on the individual animal.

As a rule, reds are a bit longer and slightly chunkier than yellows.  I've seen yellow ackies at barely over a foot and one big sucker that was close to 26".  I have also seen reds barely top out at 18" and a large one at close to 32". 

I'm sure others have seen larger and smaller extremes out of both species.





> If you have 2 red ackies can you house them together? What about 2 yellow ackies?


As long as there is only one male and you provide sufficient space for more animals, they can easily housed together.

There is a caveat, however.  Ackies are not easily sexed as juveniles - which is incidentally the best time to introduce them to each other.  Sexual cues start showing up before they reach a year of age, but even then mis-sexing animals is common-place. 

I am not a breeder, but I have bought two trios of juvenile red ackies and both times I got a 1.2.  The breeder told me that this is a general rule and that ackies determine their sex based on social groupings.

In short, it's better to buy a trio of young ackies from an established breeder and let them work the gender thing out than taking your odds on older animals that may be of uncertain sex.  Plus, the one time I tried to pair a known single male (from someone else's previous grouping) with one of my  known females, it didn't go so well.  After talking to other owners, this tends to be the rule rather than the exception.




> Do you have to handle them super frequently to have them docile? I know with like a ferret you have to have them out of their cage like 4 hours a day... Of course reptiles and mammals are pretty different but the only lizards I've had were leos and they tolerated/didn't seem to enjoy being handled no matter how frequently or infrequently I handled them. Same with my snakes, really. They ball up at first then they roam around, whether I hold them every day or once a week.


You really shouldn't be handling any monitor lizard (or arguably any reptile) every day or every other day.  You may acclimate them to handling, but you are not going to "tame" any reptile - at best you may succeed in stressing the animal out.

The most enjoyment I get with keeping ackies is watching their behavior.  They are entertaining, inquisitive and make for great observation.  Save the daily handling for animals that enjoy it.

Some owners may disagree, but I only handle my ackies when necessary. 

Most of the questions you asked are best answered by a breeder.  I would caution that keeping a monitor, even a small one like an ackie, requires much more care and diligence than most snakes or geckos.   Monitors require more space and more time than most other reptiles.  I would go a lot farther than Googling them on the internet.  Again, speak to breeders, do thorough research and ask detailed questions on their temperature needs, space requirements, dietary requirements, humidity parameters, etc. and how best to achieve them.

Make sure that you are getting info from reputable and established breeders or people who have been raising thriving animals for an extended period of time.

There is a lot of bad information and conflicting advice you will get on forums and independent care sheets regarding monitors in general.  My experiences are based on having six animals for four years which amounts to pathetically little.

There are people out there who can give you better and more informed opinions and advice based on years of successful ownership.  I highly suggest you ask your questions of these people.

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dizzy (03-14-2009)

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## dizzy

Thank you very much.

I definitely am planning on putting alot more research into it before I take the dive. I don't know that I ever will own a monitor, just something I like the idea of right now. I'm a pretty impulsive person but I also have alot of self control. And not alot of money, so that helps. lol

I am glad to hear that they're not an animal that should be held terribly often. I have a good number of animals already, and it just wouldn't be wise to get animals that need alot of attention in a linear sense. Needing attention is fine, my snakes cages get cleaned frequently and whatnot, but that's something I can do like 1 cage today, 1 tomorrow. I don't have to sit down and spend several hours at one time doing it. Not usually anyway... If I had to take my pet out of it's cage every day, especially a pet that can't meow or bark at me... That would be a problem. Thus the reason I don't own a ferret and my kitty headbutts me when she wants to be petted.

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## Skiploder

> Thank you very much.
> 
> I definitely am planning on putting alot more research into it before I take the dive. I don't know that I ever will own a monitor, just something I like the idea of right now. I'm a pretty impulsive person but I also have alot of self control. And not alot of money, so that helps. lol
> 
> I am glad to hear that they're not an animal that should be held terribly often. I have a good number of animals already, and it just wouldn't be wise to get animals that need alot of attention in a linear sense. Needing attention is fine, my snakes cages get cleaned frequently and whatnot, but that's something I can do like 1 cage today, 1 tomorrow. I don't have to sit down and spend several hours at one time doing it. Not usually anyway... If I had to take my pet out of it's cage every day, especially a pet that can't meow or bark at me... That would be a problem. Thus the reason I don't own a ferret and my kitty headbutts me when she wants to be petted.


Dizzy:

My ackies poop every day and ackies should really be fed a minimum of 4 days a week.

They are also constantly finding ways to get into trouble in their cages - knocking over Rete's stacks depositing dirt in their water bowls and ripping down thermometers.

Before we had monitors, I used to pay a trusted young adult to house sit our cat and dog and check the temperature in the snake room a couple times a day to make sure that the climate control hadn't malfunctioned.

We were very careful to fast the snakes prior to leaving so that waste wouldn't be an issue....I had another pet sitter who was better with snakes come by every third day to check for urates and change water.  In other words, the snakes could pretty much be put on auto-pilot.

The ackies have changed that.  Luckily we were able to find someone who will house sit, clean the ackies stock tanks every day, feed them every day and make sure they haven't broken anything several times a day.

So while they don't need handling, they certainly will need attention.

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dizzy (03-15-2009)

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## dizzy

I will definitely keep that in mind.

Needing attention isn't a problem. Just so long as it isn't like hours a day is what I'm getting at.

I certainly have to feed my cat every day.

And I generally clean a snake cage or 2 every day rather than doing all 10 once a week.

I was just asking because I wouldn't want the little bugger to be lonely and sad if he wasn't getting enough time being held. The main problem with holding any pet being that my kittie is usually all over me... She acts like she hasn't seen me in a year everytime I walk into the room... And with her being almost 12, and "here first" and all, I don't often have the heart to lock her out of the room.  So a pet that requires alot of handling and can injure/be injured by my kittie is a no-no at this point.

It'll probably be easier when I have a "reptile room" which is a must before I get any more pets. lol

But yes, these are all things I will look into more before I make any decisions. Right now I'm trying to rent a place where I can have a reptile room, and my next goal I think will be a rack system for the bps... And I think my next animal goal is really going to have to be a panther chameleon or 2... Yay blue bars.. They're so pretty... And I'm considering rescuing some red eared sliders if I can commit to cleaning the water.... They're are just so many that need homes it makes me feel bad when I *buy* snakes and whatnot. I used to have a RES but I had to give it to a friend because I was traveling for work and my mom wouldn't take care of it when I was gone 6 days a week...

So after that we'll see about a monitor. I have plenty of time for research.

Thanks again for all your input.

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