# Other Pythons > Morelia >  Carpet pythons

## dboeren

I'm in the market for a new snake and looking at several options, one of which is Carpet Pythons.  I've had corns and boas before many years ago, as well as Bearded Dragons, tarantulas, and a red Ackie.

The last of our dragons died of old age recently, and now I'm down to only the Ackie and looking for new tenants.

What I'd like is something that gets to a "good" size but not too big.  Big enough to be cool, but not big enough to be an issue.  I'd like something that is a bit more active or has a personality and nice colors or patterns.

I think I've ruled out Balls as too much of a pet rock, and I'm mostly looking at smaller boas (Hogg Island, Dumeril's, Brazilian Rainbow), Blood or Borneo Python, or some sort of Carpet/Bredli's Python.

Carpets strike me as a strong contender as even though they can get somewhat long, they are slender, have nice colors, and are both active and not shy.  It's also important to me that they be docile for handling, which my impression fits most Carpets once they grow out of the nippy baby phase - does that sound correct?

From what I've read, Carpets like to climb and I have I think a great home for that sort of species:
https://www.customcages.com/hr13-rep...-l-x-24-d.html

Note that this is a long-term plan, my snake would be housed in something much smaller and more secure-feeling until it was large enough to put in there.  Also, that's where the Ackie lives now anyway.  Other homes I have along the way to the big one include a 4x2x1 Boaphile, 75 gallon aquarium, 40 breeder aquarium (this I can turn over to make it side-opening instead of top-opening), and any size tubs required.

Tomorrow I will be attending Repticon in Atlanta with the goal of seeing all the species I'm interested in in person and getting to know their personalities better to narrow down what I want.  Not planning to purchase yet, just get educated.  If I go with Carpets I will pick up a copy of the Complete Carpet Python book by Nick Mutton.  I've also downloaded some episodes of MoreliaPythonRadio with beginner Carpet segments to listen to.


What I'd like from you guys is your thoughts and impressions on my plan and also about Carpets in general and what specific species you think best meet what I'm looking for.

Also, some specific questions:

1.  How would you rate the handing and personality of a Carpet vs. a Boa?

2.  Is it OK to house more than one Carpet together eventually?  Can you mix species?  I can feed them separately to avoid accidents.  This is more of a down-the-line question in case I eventually want a second snake.  Otherwise I can easily swap them periodically between the tall cage and the Boaphile so it's not a big deal.

3.  How bad is the Jaguar neurological thing?  Right now it sounds scary to me and makes me want to avoid Jaguars entirely.  Is it a danger only if the animal actually exhibits the Jaguar gene or is there a risk even if it just has some Jaguar in its ancestry?

4.  If the goal is to get a friendly animal, would it be better to get a baby (more chance to handle it as it grows up) or a yearling (more chance to see how its personality has developed)?

5.  What time of year do Carpets hatch out?  i.e. - when the breeders will have loads of selection to choose from.

6.  What are some good breeders to look at?  I know inlandreptile is one.

Thanks!

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## rock

All great questions.  Sounds like you will narrow it all down to a great choice.

I picked up my Bredli from Nick Mutton last month.  He is awesome!  Was a big help and was willing to spend the time talking over the phone with me.  He is a wealth of information and talked about all Carpets with me.

Mine is from Sept. 2015.  Still looks like a baby to me.  About 30 inches and skinny.  145 grams or so.  I am 2 feedings in.  I like being past whatever nippy phase they might go through due to having interested kids.

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_dboeren_ (04-07-2017),Gio (04-09-2017)

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## Aste88

I'll try to answer from the little experience I have, I own 3 carpets: 2 jungle and one coastal. All of them are yearling.

1 - A calm carpet will be similar to a boa. They hold on a lot and try to climb everywhere. Not all are that calm tho, 2 out of my 3 are squeamish to being touched and one will often bite. They should calm down with age. More active than a boa in the enclosure, they're always wandering around.

2 - No. All snake should be housed separately for many good reasons (safety, illness transmission, progress tracking etc). Also you would need a really big cage for two adult carpets.

3 - I guess just like the spider gene it really depends from the snake. My Jaguar shows no neuro symptoms at all. She's actually the sweetest and best eater.

4 - Babies are often nippy but it allows you to work with them and tame them more.

5 - Beginning of the summer.

6 - Find a local one, I can't help with that

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_dboeren_ (04-07-2017)

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## ShaneSilva

Love all of your options but I'd probably go with carpets as well.

1. Every snake is different but my carpet is far more active in her enclosure than my boas(my boas are not over fed). They all handle very well but the boas tend to just chill out. Occasionally stretching out to check something out but their tails stay wrapped around my arm or something. While the carpet is still very easy to handle she's usually more interested in her surroundings and will generally chill out with her head on the top of mine. She likes to get as high as she can get. But they are both very docile, easy to handle and have no problems getting in or out the enclosure. Also both GREAT eaters (heard carpets can have trouble getting started on rats sometimes but luckily didn't have that issue)

2. I've seen it done but I wouldn't try it personally nor recommend it.
This dude does it though if you want to watch some videos
https://youtu.be/B7CsA_Rl2f0

3. It's kinda like rolling the dice with a Jaguar. My sister has one that I frequently care for when she travels and it has yet to show any Neuro issues. From what I know chemicals, stress and over heating can trigger them in jags that are showing no signs. I've seen a few that did have the neurological issues but as long as they are able to feed unassisted i don't mind it.

4. I prefer to get a younger snake and go from there. If they are nippy their bites don't hurt at all it's the peeing on you that's more annoying. But if you want to skip all that get one that's a little older that you can handle in person or from a reputable breeder.

5/6 I don't care for breeding so I don't know. My snakes are all just pets so I'm not looking for all the big name breeders with the cool crazy morphs I just fine one locally that I like.

Oh and that 4x4x2 enclosure is horrible for a carpet just send it to me and I'll dispose of it for you :Sweeet:

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boidavid (04-11-2017),Craiga 01453 (04-07-2017),_dboeren_ (04-07-2017),_EL-Ziggy_ (04-07-2017)

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## EL-Ziggy

I agree with the other posters. Carpets are awesome snakes to keep. I have (5) of them and they're definitely my favorite species to work with. Bredli and Coastals are the largest ssp. I wouldn't co-habitate them but I guess some other people do. Jags are beautiful but I don't keep them because of the potential neuro issues. I don't have any breeding plans and all of my snakes are just pets but I always buy from reputable breeders. Three of my five carpets came from Nick Mutton at Inland Reptile. He produces some really nice animals with very detailed lineage records. Bill Stegall, Bryan Hummel, Derek Roddy, Hesham Ellisay, are all quality breeders too but there are others as well. You really can't lose with a carpet IMO.

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Gio (04-09-2017)

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## Prognathodon

I have 3 Morelia - a jungle carpet, a Bredli, and an Irian Jaya. I think they're all gorgeous! 

Personality depends on the snake - my Bredli is crazy head-shy, my JCP is probably "average", and the IJ is super-mellow, despite being a baby. 

The Bredli came from a reputable Reptile shop (may have been bred there), Reptile Basics, the other two from breeders - the JCP at Tinley from  GFX Morelia, and the IJ from a local breeder, Boa Cabana, at a local show. I'd buy from all of them again.  I also drool at Justin Julander/Australian Addiction's animals (co-author of Complete Carpet Python).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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_dboeren_ (04-07-2017)

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## dboeren

Thanks for all the info so far.  I'm really looking forward to seeing some Carpets in person at Repticon tomorrow and will write back after the show.

As a point of reference, about how many pounds does a typical 7-8 foot Carpet weigh?  I'm trying to decide where the "too big" point is and whether something like a Coastal or Bredli will be too big or if I should stick to the slightly smaller types like Jungles, Irian Jaya, etc...

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## Reinz

Sounds like you have done your research well!

I have 3 Coastals and one Jungle. 

While I love the looks of Jags, I am against having them for myself. I don't judge anyone that has them, but I don't want to personally encourage the market by buying one. I just don't believe that it is right to propagate brain issues. Yeah, yeah, they do fine as some say. How do they know that the snakes are not in pain?  I had a brain injury many years ago from a skiing crash. I "looked" fine and functioned ok, but was in excruciating pain with severe dizziness for over 20 years. Anyone that has had long term dizziness can tell you that it is hell. 

Back on track; Carpets are great display animals with a bit more skills needed for handling and understanding.  You won't be disappointed. 



Good to see that you are planning on a big display cage. I just moved my Jungle girl into a 4x2x4 and don't regret it at all. Best move I could have done. Yeah, it takes up the space of 2 or 3 cages, but the enjoyment factor is way up!!


Esmarelda, Jungle Carpet



My 7.5-8 ft Coastal only weighs 14.5 pounds. 



Lizzy, Coastal Carpet 


Lizzy on the bottom





Etta, 6.5 ft Coastal

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Bmocken (04-21-2017),_BR8080_ (08-10-2017),_dboeren_ (04-07-2017),Gio (04-09-2017),_rock_ (04-07-2017)

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## dkatz4

> I'm in the market for a new snake and looking at several options, ...
> 
> Thanks!


Loving your posts.  I just went through this a couple months ago, couldn't live without a new snake but couldn't decide what to get.  I already have a boa that i adore, but wanted to explore options - i ended up with another boa, a female jungle that i fell in love with, also a size and style upgrade to my normal Central American male.  But asking advice in this group was such a rewarding and educational process.  Good luck, and i cant wait to see what you get.

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## dboeren

Yesterday we went to Repticon here in Atlanta.  Our six year old wasn't having a great day so I didn't get to browse nearly as much as I would have liked but I tried to make the most out of the short time I had.  It wasn't a total loss with Isaac though, he was willing to touch about four different snakes from little Balls up to a pretty big Boa someone had out as well as a Bearded Dragon.

But, not a lot of Carpets in attendance.  There were truckloads of Ball Pythons, a goodly amount of boas, Leopard & Crested Geckos, and smaller amounts of various other species scattered around the hall but very few carpets.

Just two booths had Carpet babies.  One had a single adult Carpet but they didn't know anything about it and I was told they bought it from a pet store recently.

Of the two booths, one was Bryan Hummel's.  He had a nice deal going on giving away a free temp gun with his snakes too.  I think about 6 Carpets total.  There was a very yellow jungle jag (22% diamond) that was very attractive with targets on her side and nice to handle too but I think I just want to avoid the whole jag neurological thing - it would break my heart for that to happen to my baby.  He was a great guy and very helpful answering questions or me.

The other booth had a similar number, didn't get their name, but it was a variety of types - Coastal, Darwin, Jungle with some mixed het traits here and there.  The guy running the booth didn't know a ton about them, I believe he said they belonged to a guy "running the show" and hence busy elsewhere but he was happy to let me take them out and look.  The Darwin (het albino) was a friendly little guy and must have been older than the others as he was bigger, but kind of plain looking.  A feisty little Coastal tagged me but she was so small it was just cute and I could hardly feel it happen.


Frankly, I ran out of time due to kid issues and didn't get to interact with any Bloods as I had planned.  There were some at the show, but none of the booths seemed to know much about them and told me they might be aggressive.  One of these was the same booth that had the adult Carpet from a pet store, apparently they bought their Bloods off "some guy" recently too.  Sorry guys.  I only want a quality breeder that knows their animals and their heredity.


So that brings me to The Plan.  I'm going to get a Carpet.  I found the Breeder Direct Morelia group on Facebook which seems to be where a lot of the quality breeders hang out, so I'm watching the ads on there looking for the one I want.

Still uncertain about the exact type but I think A Jungle (non-jag) is most likely.  I've seen a few Coastals I liked too and the Bredli's are also nice but there doesn't seem to be as much variation in them.  If I go Coastal I'll probably get a male (slightly smaller).

Question about the Coastals (Caramel or normal)...  Do they typically keep their baby colors in adulthood?  I've seen some pics of young with a nice bone-whitish background but not as many adults like that and when I view family tree pics the parents are usually more yellowish in their background so I wonder if they just change as they age.  For example:

https://www.facebook.com/MidAtlantic...type=3&theater

Yeah, that one also happens to be a Jag but it was a good example of the bone color.

And finally, I realized I have an 18" display cube cage with undertank heat tape that should be well suited for a young Carpet so I'm working on getting that cleaned up and once I'm done I'll plug it into my thermostat to test out the heating.  It's this one:
https://www.amazon.com/Exo-Terra-Gla.../dp/B000OQYGQ4

So do you guys think that should do well for a 2016 (or 2015) youngster as long as there are sufficient hides, or would I be better off with a tub for a more secure feeling?  I get the impression that Carpets aren't as shy as some species so maybe the tub isn't necessary.  I would probably partially cover it for the first few days until he settles in.

I had also hoped to find a copy of the Complete Carpet Python for sale at the show but there were very few books in general so I guess I need to order that and wait for it to come in.

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## DennisM

> Still uncertain about the exact type but I think A Jungle (non-jag) is most likely.


Well, if its really a jungle you want, then it wont be jag.  All jungle jags are part coastal, all anything jag is part coastal.




> Question about the Coastals (Caramel or normal)... Do they typically keep their baby colors in adulthood? I've seen some pics of young with a nice bone-whitish background but not as many adults like that and when I view family tree pics the parents are usually more yellowish in their background so I wonder if they just change as they age.


All carpet pythons undergo ontogenetic color changes early in life.  No absolute certainties, but almost certainly these bone-white colors will turn tannish/light brown in a year or two. And speaking of color changes, dont expect to see any black and yellow baby jungles, they will look a lot like coastals as youngsters.  Pics of the parents will give a clue of what you can expect, again without any guarentees.






> And finally, I realized I have an 18" display cube cage with undertank heat tape that should be well suited for a young Carpet 
> So do you guys think that should do well for a 2016 (or 2015) youngster as long as there are sufficient hides, or would I be better off with a tub for a more secure feeling? I get the impression that Carpets aren't as shy as some species so maybe the tub isn't necessary. I would probably partially cover it for the first few days until he settles in.


I keep baby carpets in tubs, but theyll outgrow them quickly and are not appropriate for adults.  With appropriate hides and cover a young carpet will do fine in the 18 inch cube.   Definitely add some climbing apparatus if thats the way you decide to go.

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_dboeren_ (04-09-2017),Gio (04-09-2017)

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## ShaneSilva

What he said ^^^

And I. Sorry for the not so great experience. The shows in this area are always over packed with ball pythons as well but there is always a good number of other species especially carpets, boas and retics. Don't rush and get the right one for you(:

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## DennisM

also, the original post says no balls because they are pet rocks.  Then you say you're looking at bloods.  LOL, bloods will make the balls look hyper-active.

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Gio (04-09-2017)

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## Gio

Carpets are wonderful.

I have a female coastal mix (mutt). She goes 6.5 feet right now. Coastal carpets, and other species of carpet pythons where males engage in per-mating combat can be the same size or larger than the females. That is written in the book *THE COMPLETE CARPET PYTHON*

There are not huge differences for the most part. In captivity the females probably end up a touch larger in the end, but I'd say you are not going to be overwhelmed by either male or female.

Display caging is perfect for carpets. Semi to highly arboreal species are well worth setting up.

This is my female.



She is very light bodied right now, but seems to finally be getting some girth. She is a terrible eater and often takes 2 months to gear up for food.



I went with Pro-Line caging. 48" x 24" x 24"


I've not had any issues with handling other than a few bites when she was younger.






If I had another opening here for a snake, I'd get Brisbane Coastal from Nick or a Bredli.

But this girl is great.



Also, Dumerils "ground boa", blood pythons and royal pythons are classed as terrestrial and tend to be less active in my experience. Our royal is boring, but nice to handle. 

I highly recommend boa constrictors. They are classed as terrestrial too, but they should be considered semi arboreal IMO. There is so much evidence and footage that they hunt, and rest in the canopy that they are certainly more than terrestrial.


So obviously I have one of those too.


Hope you get what you are after!!

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_dboeren_ (04-09-2017),_rock_ (04-09-2017)

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## DennisM

> 1. How would you rate the handing and personality of a Carpet vs. a Boa?


I haven’t kept boas, so am not entitled to an opinion.




> 2. Is it OK to house more than one Carpet together eventually?


No it is not.




> 3. How bad is the Jaguar neurological thing? Right now it sounds scary to me and makes me want to avoid Jaguars entirely. Is it a danger only if the animal actually exhibits the Jaguar gene or is there a risk even if it just has some Jaguar in its ancestry?


It varies.  I currently have 8 jags in my collection and have had 4 others in the past.  11 of the 12 had only very mild symptoms.  The other, a male DCI/coastal intergrade, had fairly strong symptoms as a hatchling that manifested itself at all times, not just times of excitement which is frequently reported.  He was quite difficult to feed as he either couldn’t hit the prey or couldn’t locate it after he constricted it.  For the first 2-3 years it would normally take 4-6 offerings before the meal would be consumed.  The snake is now 10 years old and has become fairly efficient at feeding on offering #1.  However, at about 4-5 years of age his equilibrium became increasingly poor.  The snake is more likely to be spotted upside down than right side up these past several years.  None of the other jags in my admittedly small sample have had any noticeable difference in the degree of their symptoms over the years.  However, there is enough reported evidence in other collections to show that it may get worse.  And sometimes get better.  But I think mostly what you get wobble wise as a youngster is what you will get as an adult. 

The wobble only occurs in jags.  it is related to the gene




> 4. If the goal is to get a friendly animal, would it be better to get a baby (more chance to handle it as it grows up) or a yearling (more chance to see how its personality has developed)?


I don’t think it matters, they all calm down. 




> 5. What time of year do Carpets hatch out? i.e. - when the breeders will have loads of selection to choose from.


Summertime is prime time, but autumn is popular too.




> 6. What are some good breeders to look at? I know inlandreptile is one.


Nick obviously very good.  My go to guy for carpets is Will Bird at http://www.ectotherms.net/.  I’ve been doing business with Will for over a decade.  He produces top notch animals from excellent lines with reasonable pricing.  He’s a great guy who will provide you all the help and advice you need.  He’s in it for the animals, not the money.

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_dboeren_ (04-09-2017),Gio (04-09-2017),kevall1 (04-19-2017),_rock_ (04-09-2017)

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## dboeren

> I keep baby carpets in tubs, but theyll outgrow them quickly and are not appropriate for adults. With appropriate hides and cover a young carpet will do fine in the 18 inch cube. Definitely add some climbing apparatus if thats the way you decide to go.




Yeah, I've got some good hides and climbing branches I'll be putting in there.  Currently finishing up a thorough cleaning and then I'm taking it downstairs to plug it into my thermostat and verify that the heat tape is in good working order.





> Sorry for the not so great experience. The shows in this area are always over packed with ball pythons as well but there is always a good number of other species especially carpets, boas and retics. Don't rush and get the right one for you(:




I did see a far number of Retics and Burmese too.  Kind of glossed over them as I wasn't interested in something that big.


Been talking with Mike Cross at Mid Atlantic Reptile, he's getting some pics together for me to look at of some of his available Jungles.

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## Gio

> I havent kept boas, so am not entitled to an opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> No it is not.
> 
> 
> 
> It varies.  I currently have 8 jags in my collection and have had 4 others in the past.  11 of the 12 had only very mild symptoms.  The other, a male DCI/coastal intergrade, had fairly strong symptoms as a hatchling that manifested itself at all times, not just times of excitement which is frequently reported.  He was quite difficult to feed as he either couldnt hit the prey or couldnt locate it after he constricted it.  For the first 2-3 years it would normally take 4-6 offerings before the meal would be consumed.  The snake is now 10 years old and has become fairly efficient at feeding on offering #1.  However, at about 4-5 years of age his equilibrium became increasingly poor.  The snake is more likely to be spotted upside down than right side up these past several years.  None of the other jags in my admittedly small sample have had any noticeable difference in the degree of their symptoms over the years.  However, there is enough reported evidence in other collections to show that it may get worse.  And sometimes get better.  But I think mostly what you get wobble wise as a youngster is what you will get as an adult. 
> ...


I agree with every snippet here.

I forgot about Will. His webpage is saved in my bookmarks, and I agree with Dennis.

As for the BC VS. Carpet comparison?  They are similar in many ways, however you have to approach boas with a very seasonal feeding schedule once they are mature. A lot of folks claim boas are boring and sit curled up in the corner of the cage. I completely disagree. If not overfed, like so very many are, they will move, hunt and seek ambush points inside of their caging. This however is only observable when you set them up to display those behaviors.

Boas are MUCH heavier bodied foot for foot. I believe my carpet that is a year younger than my boa, is longer but the mass of the boa makes the carpet seem like a smaller snake.

I would say, the carpet is slightly more active throughout the year. There are times when the boa is very busy, but my coastal mutt is out almost the same time every night climbing around.

She seems to have a personality, which is hard to explain. She seems to almost be friendly which is also hard to explain. Human emotions and snakes don't mix, but I feel the carpet is more curious/tolerant of handling. My boa is very good, but boas move in a very slow, deliberate, controlled manner. Carpets seem to go without thinking. 

I'm only giving examples of my two so this isn't gospel by any means.

My SD x Dwarf retic is another situation altogether but fits the semi arboreal interest I have here.

I think for a change, and what the O/P was looking for, I'd say carpet. ALL snakes need to be understood, but I know a bit more about boas having done extensive research and study. If you raise a boa constrictor properly, you will be amazed and entertained, but its important to not overfeed them.

I think a carpet generally does what it does. Sure you can overfeed them however I think they seem to be more active year round.

I can't pick a favorite. My son has a royal python, I own the boa, the carpet and the retic.

All are special even the seemingly boring royal.

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_jmcrook_ (04-10-2017)

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## dboeren

Heating tests came out good - I set it up with my thermostat hooked up to the under-tank heater plus an independent digital thermometer w/ probe and they both agree that the hot spot is holding steady around 90 degrees.

My biggest & best hunk of grapevine to climb on is just slightly too big to fit in an 18" cage by about an inch), so I'm going to have to decide whether to trim it a little or just use something else.  Actually, now that I think about it I need floor room for a water bowl and hides too so the big vine really IS going to be too big.  Ah well, I'll save it for down the line when he's in a bigger cage.

Ordered a copy of the Complete Carpet Python, hopefully it will arrive soon.

So basically things are coming together...  I've settled on a Jungle, loving the black & yellow look.  A Coastal or Bredli isn't out of the question down the line but I'm starting here.

Now I need to start looking more closely at pics of available animals and making tough choices about who makes the cut.

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Gio (04-10-2017)

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## dboeren

First batch of pics is here, I've already weeded out half of them and I think these are the four most interesting ones...  These are all 2016's.  I'm supposed to get pics of a few remaining 2015's later.  What do you guys think?

#1 strikes me as an all arounder with clean yellows
#2 is a tipping beast
#3 has somewhat unique head & body patterns with a little lightning bolt on the side of the head
#4 is another all arounder with moderate tipping

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Gio (04-10-2017),_rock_ (04-12-2017)

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## Gio

Nice, all of them!

I think my personal preference points toward 2 and 3.

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_dboeren_ (04-10-2017)

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## ShaneSilva

They all look like great choices but I can't decide between 1 or 2

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_dboeren_ (04-10-2017)

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## dboeren

I think I'm between 2 and 3 myself, with the tipping being something I don't fully understand how it will develop yet.  As it grows, the hope would be that it turns into something more like this which is pretty snazzy:



But, if the tipping doesn't develop well then I prefer the patterning on #3.

I've asked for pics of their family tree, if I can see how their tipping turned out that should help clarify what to expect from these guys.

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Gio (04-11-2017)

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## John1982

Number 3 out of those critters - my preference.

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Gio (04-11-2017)

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## DennisM

Well, that's a good looking group to choose from.  Since you've indicated a preference for high tipping, I would rule out #1.  To me it comes down to#2 or #3.  At this stage #2 has higher tipping.  #3 also has a high tipping and a very unusual and attractive head pattern.  If I could choose just one, I would choose #3.  But, I know myself too well, I'd buy them both. :Smile:

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Gio (04-11-2017)

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## Gio

John 1982 and Dennis are on my "like page".

This comes down to your personal preference.

There is no wrong choice here.

You are in a great position.

Pick the favorite in your eyes and get to work on the best display setup you can make!

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_EL-Ziggy_ (04-11-2017)

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## EL-Ziggy

Wow, those are all amazing choices. You can't lose with any of them. I LOVE those head stamps too!

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Gio (04-11-2017)

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## dboeren

Turns out that #3 is not available after all, it's being held back.  I'm still waiting for pics of the few available 2015's, so going to wait for those before making a final choice.





> Well, that's a good looking group to choose from.  Since you've indicated a preference for high tipping, I would rule out #1.  To me it comes down to#2 or #3.  At this stage #2 has higher tipping.  #3 also has a high tipping and a very unusual and attractive head pattern.  If I could choose just one, I would choose #3.  But, I know myself too well, I'd buy them both.


I like your thinking, but I only have permission from the wife for one snake right now.  She's just not that used to them, I have no doubt she'll come around given time.

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## dboeren

Bump in the road.  I've been trying for the past week to get my wife to look at snake pics with me and see what she likes.  Finally managed it last night and she thinks the bright black & yellow Jungles look mean.  I think subconsciously anything THAT bright must be aggressive?  However, she seems to like the look of the Coastals and Bredlis so now I'm looking into those some more.

There seem to be plenty of Bredli's for sale, but I'm not finding a lot of Coastals.  Going to email Nick Mutton today, his page says "I have just begun adding my 2016 stock to my available pages" so he may have 2016 Coastals that aren't listed yet.  Otherwise I did find some at Mark Goyer Reptiles.

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## EL-Ziggy

Jungles are gorgeous but of all my carpets I like my Coastal best.  :Smile:

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_dboeren_ (04-13-2017)

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## dboeren

Got a reply back from Nick and it sounds like a 2015 is probably the better way to go for me.

Current candidates include:
3 Caramel Coastals from Living Legless
3 Red Phase Coastals from East Coast Serpents (this was from an older ad though, waiting for a reply back on what is currently available)
2 Carmel Coastals from Inland Reptile
1 het Axanthic Coastal from Inland Reptiles
1 het Stonewashed Bredli from Inland Reptiles

Nick may also have some additional normal Bredlis that aren't listed on the page but I'm not sure if any of these are 2015's.  There are 2015 Hypos and Stonewashed but these are out of my price range.  Not really into the Axanthic look.

I have a couple breeders I'm waiting to hear back from too so there might be a few more.

I'm making up an HTML photo collage so we can see them all at once for easier comparisons.

El-Ziggy:  What do you like about your Coastal compared to your Bredli?  I'd love to hear comparisons from anyone who has both.

----------


## Gio

Nick has 2 beautiful Brisbane, locality coastals listed. A male and a female and I'd jump on one. They have a unique look, somewhat like a Bredli as they have some reds in their pattern.

I occasionally chat with the Aussie folks on one of their boards, and they tell me that the coastals are a tad more arboreal than the Bredli. I enjoy my coastal mutt and find her very easy to take care of. 

I think a Bredli would be the same. A few differences in husbandry may enter into the equation, though minor, for the most part I think they will be quite similar. I love climbers so I usually go with something that does. I don't favor completely arboreal though. I like terrestrial and arboreal behaviors.

The Bredli we have at our local reptile store is a really neat male. He pops out like a reticulated python when I go up to his cage. One of the employees said he was nasty, I held him and thought he was wonderful.

The other two Centralians there are GIANT. As thick as any of the adult boas, although they are probably close to 20 years old.

$300 for a locality Brisy is a nice deal.

You may want to check them out.

The male has some really neat coloring.

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_dboeren_ (04-13-2017),_rock_ (04-13-2017)

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## dboeren

You're right - that male Brisbane is pretty nice looking.  My reservation was that from what I've read the southern Coastals are supposed to get larger than the other Coastals which means we're potentially looking at a 9+ footer someday.  I think that's going to be pushing the limit, I'd rather be in the 7-8 foot range.

Note that I've seen Caramel Coastals that have a similar reddish color like this one:
https://www.facebook.com/52717249407...type=3&theater

----------


## EL-Ziggy

> El-Ziggy:  What do you like about your Coastal compared to your Bredli?  I'd love to hear comparisons from anyone who has both.


My Coastal is definitely the most active of my carpets inside his enclosure. He cruises around pretty regularly whether he's hungry or not. My Bredli only cruises when he's hungry. The jungles and albino will just perch themselves and wait for food. The Coastal also seems to be growing at a faster pace than the Bredli. In the year that I've had the Coastal he's gained over 1kg. In the year that I've had the Bredli he's gained about 550g. The Coastal seems more relaxed during handling sessions too. The Bredli is still a little flighty when I handle him but not defensive at all.

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_dboeren_ (04-13-2017),Gio (04-13-2017),_rock_ (04-13-2017)

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## dboeren

Actually, I'm going to email Nick about the Brisbane.  No reason to make assumptions when I can get solid info instead.  Plus, he *is* pretty smoking hot after all.  I'd kind of prefer a 2015 but not a huge deal.

----------

Gio (04-13-2017)

----------


## rock

> Actually, I'm going to email Nick about the Brisbane.  No reason to make assumptions when I can get solid info instead.  Plus, he *is* pretty smoking hot after all.  I'd kind of prefer a 2015 but not a huge deal.


A Brisbane Coastal was almost my choice from Nick.  I love that he has these locality specific animals.  They are magnificent from hatchling to adult!

The main reason I went for the Bredli was that the coloring was different than the two BPs I already have and my wife was making it clear that 3 was our max.  We'll see on that but just in case I wanted the color difference.  Overall, I knew I couldn't go wrong with either but it was definitely a very tough call.  I would really prefer BOTH!

Good luck but if you get the Brisbane you are absolutely required to post lots of pics!  :Smile:

----------

_dboeren_ (04-13-2017),Gio (04-13-2017)

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## Gio

I wouldn't worry about the size. It's more of a length thing, and you have to trust me a little on this. Most people find that once they have raised and worked with their snake, it becomes much smaller. I remember thinking a 6 foot animal would be shockingly large. Now, I have 2 snakes approaching the 7 foot mark and I'm thinking they are somewhat smaller than I wanted them to turn out.

My coastal is still growing a bit, and I was hoping for a minimum of 9 feet. I can one hand handle her still. 

In general carpet pythons are fairly light bodied snakes you should have no issues with that beauty, other than deal with my jealousy.

I like my girl, but if I new then what I know now, I'd have grabbed a Brisy!

----------

_rock_ (04-13-2017)

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## Gio

> I wouldn't worry about the size. It's more of a length thing, and you have to trust me a little on this. Most people find that once they have raised and worked with their snake, it becomes much smaller. I remember thinking a 6 foot animal would be shockingly large. Now, I have 2 snakes approaching the 7 foot mark and I'm thinking they are somewhat smaller than I wanted them to turn out.
> 
> My coastal is still growing a bit, and I was hoping for a minimum of 9 feet. I can one hand handle her still. 
> 
> In general carpet pythons are fairly light bodied snakes you should have no issues with that beauty, other than deal with my jealousy.
> 
> I like my girl, but if I new then what I know now, I'd have grabbed a Brisy!




WOW terrible spelling/grammatical errors.

"DEALING with my jealousy" 

 "If I KNEW then what I Know now".

----------


## dboeren

Just got off the phone w/ Nick Mutton.  He says he has some other 2015 animals that would fit what I'm looking for which aren't on the website so he's going to put together some pics and email them to me later.

I think this is basically going to be male Bredli's, normal Coastals, and possibly a Caramel Coastal.  If I want the Brisbane that is only available in the 2016 model year.  So, I'll see how the pics look and go from there.  His explanation was that with a male you have more control over their full-grown size than with females and they are a bit slimmer as well.  Plus, usually cheaper which is always a benefit  :Wink: 

Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing the pics.  Once I get them I'll add them to my photo collage and start zeroing in on my choice.

----------


## xcjumper

Just wanted to chime in here, fwiw, I have a Carmel Coastal Female from Nick and a Jungle Male. My Coastal has a much meaner looking face than my Jungle. She looks like an intense :cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r: all the time, lol! My Jungles face is sooooo cute  :Smile:

----------


## Gio

What constitutes a "mean face" in her eyes? Is it the blacks near the mouth and head?

Coastal mutt here doesn't have a much pattern as say a pure jungle.


My guess is the jungles (some) have black around the scales and pits on the mouth and your wife doesn't like that.

This gal really doesn't.


She may or may not have some jungle in her, but I certainly don't find this face frightening.


Some folks get really nervous around Argentine boas. I guess different people have different fears.

----------

_EmilyandArlo_ (04-13-2017)

----------


## xcjumper

I don't think she has a mean face...I like her face but I can see how it would be scarier than, say, a BP face. Here's my Coastals face. I'll have to get one of my Jungle but he just ate.

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_dboeren_ (04-17-2017),Gio (04-14-2017)

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## xcjumper

Found a pretty good one of my Jungles face.

----------

_dboeren_ (04-17-2017),Gio (04-14-2017),paintedpythons (05-08-2017)

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## Gio

> I don't think she has a mean face...I like her face but I can see how it would be scarier than, say, a BP face. Here's my Coastals face. I'll have to get one of my Jungle but he just ate.


I like that snake!
It looks a bit like my girl but I guess they all have similar characteristics.

----------


## dboeren

It's a wife thing, it doesn't have to make sense  :Smile:   I think it's a combination of the stark bright yellow/black and black around the eyes, nose, and face maybe?  Whatever.  They're all pretty cool snakes so if a Coastal or Bredli's is going to go over better that's fine.  I can always look into a Jungle again later on.

----------


## John1982

I picked up a couple coastals from Nick Mutton recently. I really like his website design with individual pictures so you can cherry pick what you want while also getting to see the lineage for each clutch. He's an easy guy to work with and has a wealth of information on all things carpet python. He also has some locality jungles, which I couldn't resist, haha. Those Palmerston animals have some pretty wild striping going on and typically mature with the more wild type coloring, golden/orange as opposed to the bright yellow you see in many selectively bred lines. If you really wanted a jungle, they might be a good compromise for your better half.

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_dboeren_ (04-17-2017),Gio (04-14-2017),_rock_ (04-14-2017)

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## dboeren

I got the additional pics from Nick, there are two more striped 2015 male Bredli and one normal 2015 Coastal female which aren't on the website.

Between all vendors, I think I've got candidates, 8 2015's and two 2016's that are just so nice I have a hard time cutting them (one of which is that Brisbane male).  8 of the 10 are Coastals, 2 are Bredlis with one het Stonewashed and one striped.

----------


## rock

> I got the additional pics from Nick, there are two more striped 2015 male Bredli and one normal 2015 Coastal female which aren't on the website.
> 
> Between all vendors, I think I've got candidates, 8 2015's and two 2016's that are just so nice I have a hard time cutting them (one of which is that Brisbane male).  8 of the 10 are Coastals, 2 are Bredlis with one het Stonewashed and one striped.


Wow, nice group to choose from!  A striped Bredli would be an awesome addition as well.  Tough call!

----------


## dboeren

I think I'm down to three candidates.

2016 Male Striped Caramel Coastal
2015 Male Bredli het Stonewashed
2016 Male Zebra that just popped up tonight

Basically, the striped caramel is pretty cool.  I really like his pattern and he's fairly unique and should look pretty cool as an adult.  There were two more caramel Coastals from 2015 which would have more size, but neither one stands out as much with their pattern.

I like the look of Bredlis but his biggest asset is just being the biggest - a year older than the other two as well as Bredlis being fast growers apparently.  Also, one Bredli looks a lot like another, they don't seem to differ as much in visual quality as some other species.

Then tonight I saw a newly listed 2016 zebra.  Yeah, it's a Jungle but a zebra looks different enough that maybe it won't process as looking scary.  For instance, the black markings are much less bold looking.  Worth a check.

----------


## rock

I hope you don't mind me continuing to give my opinion here but I am genuinely excited for you to make a great addition as I did recently.  Also, take my opinion with a grain of salt as I find I'm interested in all Carpet Pythons...  

That being said, a Zebra is an amazing Carpet Python.  In my mind, a Zebra is similar to a Diamond Carpet in that it has such an incredible and unique pattern and look.  The added benefit is that you don't have the uptick in care requirements that a Diamond seems to have regarding maintaining lower temps, etc...  I own neither and I'm not an expert but that is my understanding regarding care.

So... Yes, to Zebra!  Yes, to Bredli!  Yes, to Coastals!  As I've mentioned, a tri-stripe coastal and caramel coastal were almost my first pick.  Actually, I called Nick first about a female Super Caramel Coastal that was going to be gorgeous and I now think my wife would have liked better.  She thinks our Bredli looks intense!  

Regarding, Bredli's being fast growers?  I thought it was reverse.  As in, they take longer to reach sexual maturity which may or may not also affect their growth rate.  As far as eventual size, Bredli certainly have the potential to be one of the larger pythons in the complex.

And I'm very happy with my 2015 Bredli het stonewash and I would highly recommend one to you.  Should be from the same clutch from Nick that you are looking at.  He's sweet but still a runner and quite flighty at this point.  Perhaps a 2016 Coastal or Zebra, even though younger and smaller, would still have about the same handling characteristics at this point.  Either way, a 30" inch, 150 gram Bredli is nowhere near the ease of handling as my 6 month old BPs.  

So, pick the Carpet Python you like the looks of most.  The rest, size/temperment, etc... Should eventually even out.

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_dboeren_ (04-17-2017)

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## Gio

Ha,

I think you need more than one LOL!

Its going to happen anyway!!


You are now into very tempting and addicting territory.    :Snake:   :Taz:

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_dboeren_ (04-17-2017),_rock_ (04-17-2017)

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## dboeren

Gio - Oh yeah, I obviously need more than one snake (or lizard or tarantula or whatever) eventually!  But, it will happen over time.  The only issue with Carpets is that as they grow they will want big & tall cages which I don't have a ton of, and I have to keep expenses reasonable which in part means not getting big expensive cages.  Anything that can permanently live in what we've got will be much easier to get permission for which is a 75gal, 40gal, various tubs and critter keepers, 18" cube, and a 4x2x1 Boaphile.  The big 4x2x4 is already reserved for the Carpet.  I think a Blood python would work nicely as it can eventually live in the Boaphile and won't be bothered by only 12" of height.  A sand boa could permanently live in a tub and also doesn't care about height.  18" cube could eventually take a Crested or Gargoyle gecko, or some semi arboreal snake that stays smaller.

Well, theoretically I could also house something in our Coke cooler but it would take some effort to make it safe and secure.  Really I think it would only work for 100% terrestrial animals but you could probably have a huge Leopard Gecko colony in there if you wanted and it's pretty big.  I'm not really sure what else can use that much room but can't climb at all.  This one is the same model as mine, but with better paint and mine has a bottle opener on the right front.  You can see the two screws there that it mounts on.



rock - In The Complete Carpet Python on p119 about bredli: "This is a relatively fast growing species and the small juveniles care capable of reaching lengths of 1.5m (5 ft) by their second winter."  So that's what I was going by with that.  A 2014 being nearly 6 feet seems to jive with what the book says too. 


So last night I managed to "liberate" a sort of rack system that was being used elsewhere in the house.  It's one of these:
http://www.salamanderdesigns.com/pro...5-5125e28270f2

I bought it probably 15-20 years ago, but it's still in good shape.  Basically, the four legs are giant bolts and each shelf has a big nut on top and on bottom so it has infinitely adjustable shelf heights for any size tubs you wanted.  Each level has 19"x16" of usable space, and you could add heat tape pretty easily.  I'm going to Home Depot today to check out their tubs and take notes for the future.  I also sent an email to the company asking what it would cost to buy an additional shelf for it.

Zebra - Not as mean looking, but too "busy" like a Diamond.  Wife not a fan.

Older bredli:  Almost 6 feet long, which is too big for right now.  I need something my wife can get used to at a smaller size.

rock, did you say your 2015 is 3 feet long now?  That's significantly more than the striped caramel which is only 18".

So that puts it down to the 2015 Bredli or 2016 Striped Caramel.  I can't seem to link directly to the picture but you should be able to see him here:
https://www.facebook.com/52717249407...type=3&theater

There's actually one more striped one he has that might be good - I need to ask if he can send me better pics where I can see their whole pattern instead of coiled up tightly.

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Gio (04-17-2017),_rock_ (04-17-2017)

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## rock

I like the Coke cooler!

Yes, you and the book are definitely correct.  I was thinking Bredli growth and sexual maturity compared to other Carpet Pythons.  As in, I didn't think they outpaced them. 

My 2015 Bredli is about 2.5 feet and 150 grams as of last week.  I do expect this will be a big growth year as he is now onto rats so 5 feet by the end of the year fits my expectations as well.  I would like to get him into a 4x2x2 with a RHP by the end of the year or as soon as possible, based on his growth. 

The Striped Caramel looks awesome.  Really, really nice.  

I will get a new pic of mine this afternoon so you can see where he's at for comparison.

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_dboeren_ (04-17-2017)

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## dboeren

I asked the breeder for non-coiled pics of two of his striped caramels so I can see their entire pattern but he replied back that they are "deep in shed" right now so I think we're going to give them some time to finish shedding and get better pics then.  So, it might be a little while.  I prefer a zig-zaggy looking stripe over a totally straight one.

Yes, I would love to see how big your guy is now - maybe in a hand or near a familiar sized object for scale would be good?  The one from Nick should be very similar in size.  Thanks!

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## dboeren

Salamander rack system: 19"x16" usable space, adjustable height

IRIS 32qt Weathertight storage box:  17.94"L x 14.50"W x 10.88"H

I think we have a winner, this is the biggest storage container I could find which will fit in my "rack" and seems pretty roomy.  It also has a locking top if you want it, but the clips don't get in the way so the top is optional.

At some point I will also look into the best sized container that can fit two side-by-side on these shelves.

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## EL-Ziggy

That striped coastal looks really nice.

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## rock

> I asked the breeder for non-coiled pics of two of his striped caramels so I can see their entire pattern but he replied back that they are "deep in shed" right now so I think we're going to give them some time to finish shedding and get better pics then.  So, it might be a little while.  I prefer a zig-zaggy looking stripe over a totally straight one.
> 
> Yes, I would love to see how big your guy is now - maybe in a hand or near a familiar sized object for scale would be good?  The one from Nick should be very similar in size.  Thanks!


Funny, my Bredli hasn't shed in the 4 weeks he's been with me.  Bet it's coming soon.  I'll get the hand pic today and TRY for a can too.  No telling what will happen once he's out. 😊

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## Zincubus

> Funny, my Bredli hasn't shed in the 4 weeks he's been with me.  Bet it's coming soon.  I'll get the hand pic today and TRY for a can too.  No telling what will happen once he's out.


They're all so very different , some of mine go months without shedding it seems ...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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_rock_ (04-17-2017)

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## rock

Here you go, from today.

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_dboeren_ (04-17-2017)

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## Gio

> Here you go, from today.


What a stunner!

I want one!

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## rock

Thank you, Gio.  I agree!  I had a great session with him today.  Took the gloves off, just relaxed and let him crawl around.  I get it even more now.  More fun than BPs.

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Gio (04-17-2017)

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## dboeren

Nice pics, and a very good size indeed.  Hopefully those gloves aren't really necessary and he's a good boy.

btw, I forgot to mention that we ran into a guy with a ball python at the park yesterday.  Just kind of walking around with it.  We were on our way out but stopped to chat a few minutes and let Isaac touch it.

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_rock_ (04-17-2017)

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## xcjumper

why the gloves? Confused.....was he biting you?

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## rock

No need for the gloves.  At all.  He is the sweetest snake.  Just curious and fun and has never even taken a strike.  I'm just a terrible handler.  Pretty much had an unfounded fear of snakes my whole life.  Only got over it 6 months ago for the sake of my 8 year old daughter.  Empowered her and myself, I guess.  

Anyway, it's just the movement that gives me a knee jerk reaction.  BPs too even though they move much slower so it hasn't been a problem.  I really haven't handled my Bredli much over the first month.  Just a few sessions.  I could tell he was nice but I would get nervous.  Anyway, today I just went with it and let him climb around as usual and after a few minutes I sat down and took the gloves off and enjoyed him being curious.  Sorry for the confusion.

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_dboeren_ (04-18-2017),Gio (04-17-2017)

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## Gio

> No need for the gloves.  At all.  He is the sweetest snake.  Just curious and fun and has never even taken a strike.  I'm just a terrible handler.  Pretty much had an unfounded fear of snakes my whole life.  Only got over it 6 months ago for the sake of my 8 year old daughter.  Empowered her and myself, I guess.  
> 
> Anyway, it's just the movement that gives me a knee jerk reaction.  BPs too even though they move much slower so it hasn't been a problem.  I really haven't handled my Bredli much over the first month.  Just a few sessions.  I could tell he was nice but I would get nervous.  Anyway, today I just went with it and let him climb around as usual and after a few minutes I sat down and took the gloves off and enjoyed him being curious.  Sorry for the confusion.


Hey,,,,,,,
Good for you.

I've been bitten by 3 of the 4 we have here. None of them hurt, but I still don't want to be bitten LOL! I too was not into snakes until we bought our son a royal for his 9th B-day. Obviously I knew I'd be the primary care giver.

If you have a carpet, I highly recommend early handling with what I call an "acclimation branch". My new retic came with many unknows and I was obviously cautious at the start. Funny, he bit me later on after I was comfortable and too aggressive removing him from the cage LOL!

Try this if you are the slightest bit apprehensive. Also use a tight fist when you move your hand toward his face. My carpet and retic saw a fist, not fingers and seemed to know a bite was not worth trying.




My retic bite



And a dog bite I got about 15 years ago during a protection training exercise. 

Neither hurt at the time but I was sure surprised.



The Bredli is really neat and eventually if its anything like my coastal, it won't bite you even if you try to get bitten LOL!

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_rock_ (04-17-2017)

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## rock

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9AmwoQc68xQ

Here is a video from today, you can better see his size...  And what poor handling looks like.  I quickly got better, though.

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_dboeren_ (04-18-2017)

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## rock

> Hey,,,,,,,
> Good for you.
> 
> I've been bitten by 3 of the 4 we have here. None of them hurt, but I still don't want to be bitten LOL! I too was not into snakes until we bought our son a royal for his 9th B-day. Obviously I knew I'd be the primary care giver.
> 
> If you have a carpet, I highly recommend early handling with what I call an "acclimation branch". My new retic came with many unknows and I was obviously cautious at the start. Funny, he bit me later on after I was comfortable and too aggressive removing him from the cage LOL!
> 
> Try this if you are the slightest bit apprehensive. Also use a tight fist when you move your hand toward his face. My carpet and retic saw a fist, not fingers and seemed to know a bite was not worth trying.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Gio, great ideas.  I'll try that.  You've really come a long way as well.  That dog really gave you the business!

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## Gio

The video wasn't bad. My carpet was a bit silly to handle. Boas hold tight my carpet started out a little erratic and did a bit of falling too.

You've got a really nice Bredli and I see more in the future.

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_rock_ (04-18-2017)

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## dboeren

+1 for the closed fist.  Nothing small sticking out to bite.

I got bitten by a baby (2016) carpet at the Atlanta reptile show recently, couldn't really feel it or find the spot where it hit me - it's just not a big deal with little snakes, more just a surprise than anything else and frankly almost cute at that size.  It's like a baby kitten trying to kill you, they're so adorable doing it that you don't really mind.

OK, so that was a weird conversation...  My wife basically said that I should start with one snake but it's OK to get another one eventually provided that all goes well.  She doesn't want to have to take care of it herself though.  Also, she said that I can get one of the yellow & black ones if I want.  Confusing...  I mean, like it's not hard enough ALREADY trying to pick one.

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_rock_ (04-18-2017)

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## rock

Eureka!  The sudden, unexpected realization of the solution to a problem.  So let it be written, so let it be done.  

I think she just gave you clearance for 3.  Just my take.  :Smile:

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## Prognathodon

I have to remind myself not to jump if my baby water python strikes, even thought the most recent bite didn't even break skin. Some day Kajura's bite may work its way up to angry Velcro, but today is not that day. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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_rock_ (04-18-2017)

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## dboeren

Prognathodon - I think you need to update your sig, I don't see a water python listed there.

For the moment, nothing much changes here.  I'm still looking for just one carpet going between 2016's with better selection available or larger 2015's which are more scarce/picked over.  But it's good to know that I may be able to get another in the future.  It may not be a carpet though because I'm still constrained by available housing and my only other tank big enough for a bigger snake is a 4x2x1 foot which isn't ideal for a semi-arboreal snake.  It would be a good home for a Blood or Borneo python though, and anything that can live in a 32qt tub is no problem.

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## Prognathodon

> Prognathodon - I think you need to update your sig, I don't see a water python listed there.


Oof, you're right, that was really out of date. Fixed that, and the list in my profile.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## dboeren

Currently just in a holding pattern waiting for the two striped caramels to complete their sheds so I can get better pics of them.

In the meaning, also continuing to monitor the various carpet python "for sale" groups on FB in case anything else tempting pops up.

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## dboeren

OK, so it's been a long winding road but I've finally ordered my new snake.  It's not the striped caramels I was previously looking at, but when I saw her it was just one of those "wow" moments.  Breathtaking.  She's a Diamond/Jungle cross.

Facebook pics still don't seem to work to include directly, so here's a link you have to click on:

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...8d&oe=5988A63A

She will arrive Tuesday, so I'm working on ordering some frozen rodents and getting her home all fixed up to be ready.

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Gio (04-27-2017),John1982 (04-27-2017),_rock_ (04-27-2017)

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## rock

Wow, you nailed it!  What a beautiful animal.  Congrats!!

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## EL-Ziggy

Very nice choice DB. She's a beauty.  :Good Job:

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## Gio

> OK, so it's been a long winding road but I've finally ordered my new snake.  It's not the striped caramels I was previously looking at, but when I saw her it was just one of those "wow" moments.  Breathtaking.  She's a Diamond/Jungle cross.
> 
> Facebook pics still don't seem to work to include directly, so here's a link you have to click on:
> 
> https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...8d&oe=5988A63A
> 
> She will arrive Tuesday, so I'm working on ordering some frozen rodents and getting her home all fixed up to be ready.


Perfect!

The jungle will take care of any of those particular diamond care requirements.

Extra beautiful!

VERY WELL DONE!

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## rock

> Perfect!
> 
> The jungle will take care of any of those particular diamond care requirements.
> 
> Extra beautiful!
> 
> VERY WELL DONE!


I was thinking the same thing.  I haven't read up on them but I am starting to think the diamond/jungle combo gives a brisbane a run for it's money!  I always wanted a diamond, this might be the way to go.  Again, great job, DB.

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## dboeren

Thanks guys  :Smile: 

Talking to the breeder (East Coast Exotics), he says that you can keep them the same as other Carpets and don't have to do anything unusual due to the Diamond heritage.

However, I've still been listening to back episodes of Morelia Python Radio about Diamonds just to get a better sense of them.

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## dboeren

Ordered some aspen bedding and some frozen mice & rats, and everything else in the cage is in place and ready to go from heating to thermostat to lighting and climbing branch.  Could maybe use another branch sometime, we'll see how much she climbs or I can fake it with a tinkertoy play-gym.  Just gotta add the aspen when it gets here and put some water in the bowl.

She eats mouse hoppers currently (she's about 2 feet long) and I thought it would be a bad idea to try to transition her to rats at the same time as moving into a new home with no mice to fall back on.  So, when I get down to about 5-6 mice left I'll start transitioning and I can use the last few mice to scent with if necessary.

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## dboeren

My Diamond/Jungle girl will be arriving tomorrow morning by 10:30am!

Just about everything is ready to go.  I put down the aspen shavings, filled the water bowl, added more hides and cork bark, hung black cloth covering two sides of the cage for a more secure feeling, set up some lights, and have been testing temperatures.

Belly heat is about 88F which seems good (it's on a thermostat), but I need to find a smaller watt bulb for a basking spot.  The 40W is giving me around 96F so I'm going to pick up a 25W and maybe a 15W or whatever they have to try out.  There's also an LED bulb that I can use to give white light without heat (it's a 2-bulb fixture).  I could also raise the light higher as a temp fix but that won't look as good.

I also found two timers I can use to program a day/night cycle, they're just ON/OFF but better than nothing.

Frozen mice will be here on Wednesday, I wanted to give her some time to settle in before attempting a feeding anyway.

Also - gotta work on a name.  So far I've been looking at some star themed options (to call out the diamond look) or female characters from mythology, Tolkien, etc...

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## ringorock

Carpets were formerly my thing. I love carpets. They can be easy if you give them what they want. But they can grow to be snappy. I just learned to ignore their snap, and all of my past carpets grew out of it. I did learn that if I handled them everyday, they would not snap. If I gave them days off, there was no telling. They're beautiful snakes and great for home display because of the arboreal nature of them. As for an almost guaranteed scaley friend, they're no ball.

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## Reinz

> My Diamond/Jungle girl will be arriving tomorrow morning by 10:30am!
> 
> Just about everything is ready to go.  I put down the aspen shavings, filled the water bowl, added more hides and cork bark, hung black cloth covering two sides of the cage for a more secure feeling, set up some lights, and have been testing temperatures.
> 
> Belly heat is about 88F which seems good (it's on a thermostat), but I need to find a smaller watt bulb for a basking spot.  The 40W is giving me around 96F so I'm going to pick up a 25W and maybe a 15W or whatever they have to try out.  There's also an LED bulb that I can use to give white light without heat (it's a 2-bulb fixture).  I could also raise the light higher as a temp fix but that won't look as good.
> 
> I also found two timers I can use to program a day/night cycle, they're just ON/OFF but better than nothing.
> 
> Frozen mice will be here on Wednesday, I wanted to give her some time to settle in before attempting a feeding anyway.
> ...


Great planning and prep there DB.  :Smile:

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## dboeren

25W bulb seems to do about right, giving me a 90F basking spot.  The store didn't have any 15W to try out.  Without any bulb the same spot is around 81F.

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## dboeren

Just got word that it's going to be a little longer as she is entering shed so he's going to wait and ship after that is completed.  So... could be an extra week or so, hard to tell  :Sad:

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## Reinz

> Just got word that it's going to be a little longer as she is entering shed so he's going to wait and ship after that is completed.  So... could be an extra week or so, hard to tell


Dude, that's just too harsh for your excitement.  :Sad:

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Gio (05-01-2017)

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## EL-Ziggy

That slurps DB  :Sad: . Why delay shipping because the animal is in shed though?

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## Gio

> Carpets were formerly my thing. I love carpets. They can be easy if you give them what they want. But they can grow to be snappy. I just learned to ignore their snap, and all of my past carpets grew out of it. I did learn that if I handled them everyday, they would not snap. If I gave them days off, there was no telling. They're beautiful snakes and great for home display because of the arboreal nature of them. As for an almost guaranteed scaley friend, they're no ball.


OH,

I don't know about the last part here.

There are plenty of testy royals out there, and plenty of wonderfully, pleasant, inquisitive, active carpets.

We have a royal here. Boring is a great description, but that's how they live in the wild. Secretive, and out of sight until its time to eat. As far as a "friend" I have a motionless rock in my lap that usually wants to be away from me and more like back into a hide.

The carpet of ALL snakes here, which includes a boa constrictor, and a young retic, is the most "social/friendly" and predictable snake in the house. They are all solid, but the carpet seems to enjoy company. She doesn't technically enjoy anything, but WOW what a snake to display and handle without worry.

You are correct that there is often a need for some handling work on the front end, but the reward later on in most cases is beyond well worth it.

IMO carpet pythons and boa constrictors are wonderful first snakes for the right keeper. Royals are great, but the feeding issues they present are often misunderstood by most keepers and it lead to questions and stress. The snake itself is fine but then you step back and just look at all the worried royal keepers that post feeding questions you get a picture of something other than ideal IMO.

Of the 4 snakes here, and they are all completely different species from completely different continents, I find the carpet to be the most entertaining and "friendly". The retic is becoming a special part of the crew, and the boa constrictor is perfect, in every way sans a "personality".

I'm not knocking your post, but I will say the chance for a keeper to obtain a "scaly friend" can be very, very high with almost any carpet species.

As a matter of fact, some wild carpets are very handleable and non-defensive.

The O/P is going to love this experience!

What was it that made you go from carpets to royals? Usually things progress the other way

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_Reinz_ (05-02-2017)

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## dboeren

OK, I actually just misinterpreted the message.  She's going into shed but shipping will proceed as expected.  Sorry for the false alarm.

Baby carpets are known for often being a bit nippy, but most people seem to agree that it's something they grow out of and mostly due to being very low on the food chain at that small size.

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## Gio

> OK, I actually just misinterpreted the message.  She's going into shed but shipping will proceed as expected.  Sorry for the false alarm.
> 
> Baby carpets are known for often being a bit nippy, but most people seem to agree that it's something they grow out of and mostly due to being very low on the food chain at that small size.


Yes,

You will have nothing to fear.

Mine bit me 3 times and I laughed at the antics because she was trying to be so bloody tough LOL!

I suggest using a perch or branch to introduce them to handling at first.

I call this "The Acclimation Branch". The snake will eventually crawl right over your hands. I used it on my carpet AFTER she bit me a few times. Problem solved!


The retic never bit me durning handling. He only tagged me defensively while pulling out of the cage. My fault not his.

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_Reinz_ (05-02-2017)

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## EL-Ziggy

Glad you're still on schedule D. Sounds like your temps are dialed in nicely. I use 75w red heat bulbs with a dimmer to create a basking spot and boost my ambient temps. They're great for night viewing too.

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Gio (05-02-2017)

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## rock

> OK, I actually just misinterpreted the message.  She's going into shed but shipping will proceed as expected.  Sorry for the false alarm.
> 
> Baby carpets are known for often being a bit nippy, but most people seem to agree that it's something they grow out of and mostly due to being very low on the food chain at that small size.


Awesome, glad you are still on schedule.  Sounds like you are dialed in!  Looking forward to your first pics!

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## Reinz

Great news!

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## dboeren

So apparently Fedex had an IT outage last night which is causing all sorts of shipments to be delayed and they've missed the expected 10:30 delivery window.  No real way to tell when my package might get here, but it's been "out for delivery" since 8:09am so hopefully not too long...

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## dboeren

She finally arrived 15 minutes ago, I was getting pretty stressed out after several hours of waiting there  :Smile: 

Anyway, she's fine and currently warming up and investigating her new home.

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_EL-Ziggy_ (05-02-2017),_Prognathodon_ (05-02-2017),_rock_ (05-02-2017)

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## rock

No selfie, never happened.  :Smile:   Glad you got her home.

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## dboeren

I'll try to get something up later tonight.  Right now she's curled up under a log hide (the one that's halfway on the heating pad) and between the long ride and shedding I don't want to bother her.

I'm hoping she'll come out later tonight to explore again and that will be a better opportunity to take a pic.

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## EL-Ziggy

Glad she made it to you safe and sound DB. Hope she settles in quickly for ya.

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## dboeren

She seems to be settling in fine.  Most of the time she's coiled up in the main hide.  I've got three in the tank but this is the biggest one and it partially overlaps the heating pad so I can see why it would be her hide of choice  :Wink: 

She did come out exploring late last night which I was happy about, a really stressed snake probably wouldn't come out at all.  Anyway, I expect once she's done shedding (and more used to the new surroundings) I'll see her out and about more often.  I was able to handler her no problem, she's quite gentle.  A little head shy but that's probably in part due to shedding.  Everyone is more cautious when they can't see well.

I've been going through the breeder's old photo uploads on Facebook and managed to identify a couple more pictures of my girl when she was younger and I'm working on getting these into an album.  I also set up an iHerp account.  For some reason the activation emails were ending up in my spam folder but I finally got that sorted out.

Are you guys able to see my iHerp gallery page here?
http://www.iherp.com/HerpTrack/Photo...nimalID=194321

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## Aste88

I'm getting "access denied"

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## rock

Glad she is settling in!  I tried the link and it said "access denied".

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## dboeren

Try this one?  It says this is my animal's "public page" so it should be visible I think:

http://www.iherp.com/Public/Animals/...nimalID=194321

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## rock

Oh yeah, that works.  Beautiful markings and color.  Wow!

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## dboeren

Cool, now I don't have to keep multiple picture galleries  :Smile: 

I've added some pics of the parents and breeding, working on trying to get some of the grandparents...

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## EL-Ziggy

She looks great and comes from really good stock DB. Her environment sounds comfy and she seems to have a good temperament. All she needs to do now is shed and eat. I'm pretty sure you'll enjoy her a lot.

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## Gio

Love it!

Great choice there!

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## Reinz

Man I am so in love with that combo, congrats!  :Smile:

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## dboeren

Nothing much to report, she hasn't shed yet.  I offered a mouse today but she wasn't interested so I'll give her a few days or until after the shed to try again.  I'd rather wait until she's in her fresh coat of paint to take new pics too.

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_rock_ (05-05-2017)

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## dboeren

Got up this morning and found a shed skin in the cage.  Also, I weighed her two days ago at 117 grams.  She's pretty slender, got to get a little meat on her.  Rock, your bredli is probably around 1.5x that weight I think?

I got my order in from Perfect Prey with some small adult mice.  They're a little bigger than what she's been eating but I talked it over with the breeder and he thought it should be fine.  After these are used up I'll be moving her to rats but I didn't want to try switching food sources at the same time she was moving to a totally new environment (cage instead of tub, handling, etc...)

I offered her the smallest mouse (I weighed all of them) this afternoon but she didn't take it.  Will try again in a day or two  :Sad:

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## rock

Sorry, she didn't eat again.  Sounds like you are close.  

You're correct about the weight of my Bredli.  I checked him last night and he has definitely grown a little bit.  He is hovering around 200-225 grams now.  I weighed him last night on the old kitchen scale which does not have the most accurate display, but it's zeroed out.

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## dboeren

Anyone who has records...  Back when your carpets were around the 120 gram mark what size prey did you give them?

I'll try again later today but if a 13-14 gram mouse is too big I can pick up a couple smaller ones locally to try her on until she grows into the bigger size.

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## rock

Just my 2 cents as you know I'm not an expert, but it does seem like you have the correct size mouse.  

My Bredli was around 145 grams when I got him, very slender and with a small head compared to my 6 month old BPs.  My first feeding was a large mouse.  No problem.  Then I jumped up to rat pups which were supposed to be roughly the same size but the ones I was given during the first two feedings were exceptionally large.  I have video of the those feedings and in retrospect they still seem way too large but he had no problems with them.

One difference, perhaps, mine ate live from the breeder and I have continued that.

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## EL-Ziggy

DB- I'm glad your girl shed for you. If she refused yesterday I wouldn't offer her food again for another 5-7 days or whenever her next scheduled feeding date is. It won't hurt her to wait and you'll waste fewer feeders. When my carpets were 120g I was feeding them 1-2 rat fuzzys every 5-7 days. The rat fuzzys are 10-19g each. I don't push the envelope too far but carpets can take some pretty large meals. I've fed my carpets jumbo mice at 125g with no problems. Those mice were 30-35g each.

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## Prognathodon

At that size I was feeding my JCP a rat fuzzy every five days, with occasional mouse fuzzy snacks when another snake refused. 

I forgot how small he was when I got him! 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

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## dboeren

Thanks for the input.  I did some searching online and found pics of carpets eating pretty big stuff so I don't think the size of the mice is the issue - most likely she's just not fully settled in yet.  She tends to spend all day in her belly-heated hide log and then come out some at night.  Hopefully as she acclimates I'll see her outside more during the daytime as well.  When I take her out she seems pretty mellow and has never tried to bite.  She will explore a bit and sometimes she is a little startled by an unexpected touch but not that bad - it's not like she tries to take off running.

Her last meal was about two weeks ago so she's definitely "due" and I'd hoped she was only refusing due to being in shed but I'll go ahead and give her a bit longer.

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## dboeren

I haven't had the chance to figure out how to take some really good pics yet, but here's a quick phone snapshot from the other night when she was hanging out on her branch like she does every night.

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Gio (05-12-2017),_Reinz_ (05-12-2017),_rock_ (08-17-2017)

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## rock

Sweet picture.  I have to say, over and over, that is such a beautiful snake.  With all the talk on Boelen's, yours really gives it a run for it's money!  Such a great pattern throughout.  Stunning.

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_dboeren_ (05-12-2017)

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## Gio

Will Byrd has some nice info about carpets.

He tends to feed larger meals.

http://ectotherms.net/kyherpsoc/carpetpythons.html

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_rock_ (05-12-2017)

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## dboeren

> Sweet picture.  I have to say, over and over, that is such a beautiful snake.  With all the talk on Boelen's, yours really gives it a run for it's money!  Such a great pattern throughout.  Stunning.


Thanks.  I really like the way she looks so much like a Diamond and then adds the Jungle style banding.  It's a great mix of traits and seems relatively unique.  Most Diamond/Jungles I see are the opposite where they look like a Jungle but cleaner and with very uniform tipping within their bands.

I'm going to try to feed her again this weekend, really hope she'll take it this time.  I'm going to wait until she come out of her own accord in the evening which is around the 9pm mark after the timer has cut off her lights and heat.  After it goes dark she comes out to sit on her branch and that's when the mouse will appear  :Smile:

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## rock

> Thanks.  I really like the way she looks so much like a Diamond and then adds the Jungle style banding.  It's a great mix of traits and seems relatively unique.  Most Diamond/Jungles I see are the opposite where they look like a Jungle but cleaner and with very uniform tipping within their bands.
> 
> I'm going to try to feed her again this weekend, really hope she'll take it this time.  I'm going to wait until she come out of her own accord in the evening which is around the 9pm mark after the timer has cut off her lights and heat.  After it goes dark she comes out to sit on her branch and that's when the mouse will appear


One tip that you may already know, but I've been doing it lately, is to scent the room.  I bring the rats in the room and let them sit there first.  I read 30 minutes but 10 minutes seems to do the trick for mine.  They start to come out in search mode so I know they are primed and ready.

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## Reinz

That's a great photo DB!  Besides being beautiful, they are so satisfying to watch when they are in arboreal mode.  :Smile:

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## EL-Ziggy

Your girl looks GREAT DB! She has some really strong diamond influence and she's only gonna get better.

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_dboeren_ (05-13-2017)

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## dboeren

OK, successful feed!  As described earlier, I waited until she came out on her branch after dark.  Thawed in hot water, dried off, and left to sit near her cage for about 15 minutes so some scent might spread around.  I opened the cage and it took her a few seconds to think about it and smell it and then she struck from her perch.  The delay may have been due to the larger sized prey.

Anyway, she constricted it hanging in the air and was able to hold onto it with some coils while she adjusted her head into position.  I was trying to leave her alone so I missed the actual swallowing but maybe next time.  I just looked over and the mouse wasn't hanging in the air anymore so I thought maybe she dropped it but then I didn't see it on the ground either  :Smile:

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_EL-Ziggy_ (05-13-2017),_rock_ (05-13-2017)

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## dboeren

> Your girl looks GREAT DB! She has some really strong diamond influence and she's only gonna get better.


Yeah, I can't wait to see how she develops over time, especially the pale saddles - I'm curious whether they turn more yellow, more white, or what.

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## BR8080

DB - what a looker you have there, congratulations.

I'm on the fence right now with adding another snake to my collection.  I'm not into this for breeding, just collecting and the idea of a carpet really intrigues me.  I read the entire thread and gained a lot of information about carpets, the questions you asked are some of the same I have so I thank you for posting and the other carpet owners for responding.

I'll be following your posts and hopefully seeing more pictures of your acquisition.  By the way - did you pick a name for her?

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