# Miscellaneous Herp Interests > Venomous Animals >  Where to get Antivenom

## KingObeat

I'm planning on getting some hots in the future and would like to know where you can buy Antivenom. I'm aware that's It's illegal to administer it yourself.

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## cmack91

Idk if you can buy it, but im pretty sure it has a shelf life. Find out the species you want, and see what hospitals around you carry it, that would be the first thing I would do if was to ever plan on getting a hot

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## drama x

If youre looking for antivenom then i wouldnt buy a hot, thats just bad juju right there.  :Wag of the finger:

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_angllady2_ (01-21-2012)

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## cmack91

> If youre looking for antivenom then i wouldnt buy a hot, thats just bad juju right there.


How so?

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## KingObeat

My plan is to stock it and bring it to the Hospital with me in case they don't have any. I've talked to a few venomous keepers who do that, but none of them would tell me where to get any exotic antivenom.

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## drama x

> How so?


Cause thats just asking to get bit lol

But in all seriousness i have no clue where to purchase antivenom, its probly illegal to even buy i would think.

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## cmack91

> Cause thats just asking to get bit lol
> 
> But in all seriousness i have no clue where to purchase antivenom, its probly illegal to even buy i would think.


Oh lol

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## Skiploder

Depends on what species you are keeping.

Antivenin is not cheap.  And it's not cheap to have it administered either.

It also has a finite shelf life.

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## mr.spooky

BTW,, what hots are you talking about?
 spooky

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## kitedemon

Saudi Arabia is one of the leading producer of many anti venoms. I have been told that you can buy direct from them or at least you could once, now... You also know that there is a shortage world wide currently? (read Saudi...) That will drive the price up quite a lot, I was told that it was many thousands a dose but I have no proof of that just a conversation.

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## Skiploder

> Saudi Arabia is one of the leading producer of many anti venoms. I have been told that you can buy direct from them or at least you could once, now... You also know that there is a shortage world wide currently? (read Saudi...) That will drive the price up quite a lot, I was told that it was many thousands a dose but I have no proof of that just a conversation.


You need permits to import antivenin.  Many of the foreign producers aren't FDA approved, and may not be legal.  

This is one of those topics that you need to properly and thoroughly research on your own.  There is probably a good reason why The venomous keepers you talked to aren't giving you any leads.

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keith88 (01-21-2012),_mr.spooky_ (01-21-2012),_zeion97_ (01-21-2012)

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## KingObeat

> This is one of those topics that you need to properly and thoroughly research on your own. There is probably a good reason why The venomous keepers you talked to aren't giving you any leads.


 I've tried to find info on this subject and I haven't had any luck.

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## zeion97

> Saudi Arabia is one of the leading producer of many anti venoms. I have been told that you can buy direct from them or at least you could once, now... You also know that there is a shortage world wide currently? (read Saudi...) That will drive the price up quite a lot, I was told that it was many thousands a dose but I have no proof of that just a conversation.


Hmmm..A couple thousand dollars..Or your life...

Hard choice right there.  :Razz:

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## RichsBallPythons

Unless you have the money, Stocking up on anti venom is hard to do with its cost.

Also some anti venom you could be highly allergic to it and be counter productive. Not sure if your able to know which ones your allergic to.

If not mistaken most Anti venom shelf life is what a year max. Im sure there is leeway on that

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## JeffD

Most hospitals readily have antivenon for native snakes and  your local zoo has antivenon for exotics that they display. Maybe this will help you. :Cool: 

sent from my EVO , with Tapatalk

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## Skiploder

> Most hospitals readily have antivenon for native snakes and  your local zoo has antivenon for exotics that they display. Maybe this will help you.
> 
> sent from my EVO , with Tapatalk


Maybe it won't.

The OP needs to identify which antivenin he needs.  The fact that he cannot do that is why he cannot find what he needs.

Once he does that, he should be able to find sources to buy from - with or without a permit.

He also needs to understand that a $99.00 vial of anti-venin isn't going to cut it.  You need to know how many you will need for an average bite from the species you are keeping.

You also need to understand that you can easily get yourself into six figure trouble with a run of the mill snakebite just from hospital costs alone.  Good luck getting your HMO to pick up the tab.

Some of the freeze dried antivenins have 5 year shelf lives.

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JeffD (01-22-2012)

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## Foschi Exotic Serpents

Best advice anyone can offer is simply this.. 

Don't get bitten!

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## angllady2

I know there was recently a story on a woman who got bitten by a common rattlesnake in her garden.

She needed 6 vials of anti-venin at a cost of roughly $1,000 a vial.   This was besides the IV fluids, painkillers, and I don't know what else to keep her alive.  The total hospital bill was in the neighborhood of $25,000.

To me, that says unless you are rich, don't keep hots!

Gale

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## bioteacher

I'm pretty sure it is legal for private ownership of antivenom, but it doesn't make much sense unless you're planning on getting bit soon - as mentioned it has a finite shelf life. The private owners keeping it are either really wealthy or getting it illegally.

There also isn't a lot out there for purchase and a lot of it is still being created/tested since there aren't antivenoms for all species. Not to mention it can have a very negative effect - as mentioned, it can cause an allergic reaction worse than the venom itself. If self administered for a dry bit (or even a wet one) you could kill yourself with it.

Also, as mentioned, it is very costly - I believe around $1,000 a vial when administered at a hospital and you can expect to need 15+ vials for many bites. Idk about you, but owning a hot and getting a bite isn't worth $15k - that doesn't mean don't get any, just do your research and be properly prepared. 

Definitely check for the nearest hospitals that carry the necessary antivenom - the last thing you want to be doing when you get bit is calling around or looking in the yellow pages  :Razz:

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## JeffD

I don' t kmow why I even bother. There are so many self proclaimed know it alls on here!!!

sent from my EVO , with Tapatalk

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_youbeyouibei_ (01-27-2012)

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## KingObeat

At this point I'm not 100% sure If I wanna have my own anivenom or not. I just wanted a little more info. I've been told that Zoo's are reluctant to provide antivenom so I shouldn't count on them in the event of a bite.

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## wilomn

> Most hospitals readily have antivenon for native snakes and  your local zoo has antivenon for exotics that they display. Maybe this will help you.
> 
> sent from my EVO , with Tapatalk


Really? My understanding is the exact opposite. I know that most hospitals out here do not have it on hand.

Perhaps you could share your source for your statement.




> I don' t kmow why I even bother. There are so many self proclaimed know it alls on here!!!
> 
> sent from my EVO , with Tapatalk


Implying that you know more than they do? Interesting. Keep any hots yourself of just puffing your chest?

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_heathers*bps_ (01-22-2012)

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## Emily Hubbard

I know for a fact that my local hospital stocks Crotalinae antivenin because my mom is an RN there and rattlesnake bites are not uncommon throughout the U.S. My mom has seen some crazy bites. A rattlesnake bite is survived 99.98% of the time, but you will have scars to prove it, hemotoxins are not pretty. I actually did a persuasive speech last semester on the terribleness of Rattlesnake Roundups and what I learned is that antivenin for North American pit vipers is extremely expensive, and while it is not in endless supply, there is enough available to save your life if you have an unfortunate hiking accident. But that is treatment for native species only, there is no way you will get black mamba antivenin in the majority of U.S hospitals.

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_satomi325_ (01-22-2012)

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## JeffD

From my original post, I have first hand knowledge hospitals with antivenon on hand. I also have first hand knowledge of the Atlanta Zoo carrying antivenon for the snakes they display. I was submitting to the OP that this might help them locate some in their area, and I got blasted for it!!! Furthermore, I respond to venomous snake calls for 2 counties 911 and am a medic.  I wasnt trying to pick a fight, just trying to offer the OP some starting point

sent from my EVO , with Tapatalk

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## Skiploder

> From my original post, I have first hand knowledge hospitals with antivenon on hand. I also have first hand knowledge of the Atlanta Zoo carrying antivenon for the snakes they display. I was submitting to the OP that this might help them locate some in their area, and I got blasted for it!!! Furthermore, I respond to venomous snake calls for 2 counties 911 and am a medic.  I wasnt trying to pick a fight, just trying to offer the OP some starting point
> 
> sent from my EVO , with Tapatalk



Jeff:

I would submit that you don't give just anyone the keys to the gun cabinet.

In the middle of rattlesnake country, my uncle found out the hard way that many if the hospitals do not stock antivenin, or at least do so seasonally.

He also found put that an area zoo was very reluctant to part with their stock.  When they did, they agreed to part with 10 vials and he needed another 4 - which had to be flown in from a hospital in San Diego.

There is a good reason why nobody is giving the OP the info he wants.  First, some antivenins for exotic species are not FDA approved and you need permits to legally purchase it.  Second, you can fudge knowledge along the way with many species of snakes and in the end it's only the snake who suffers.  With hots, you put yourself in a world of hurt.

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## Skiploder

> At this point I'm not 100% sure If I wanna have my own anivenom or not. I just wanted a little more info. I've been told that Zoo's are reluctant to provide antivenom so I shouldn't count on them in the event of a bite.


I would not count on a zoo or a hospital to save your life.

What they have today, they may not have next year.  Even if they do, the last thing you need is some doctor trying contact a zoo after hours and wheedle antivenin while you are in mortal agony - or worse.

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## wolfy-hound

I know that SOME hot keepers do stock antivenin for the exotic species they keep. However, I'm not in contact with any of them currently, so I can't just ask them where they get it or what procedure they use for shelf life.

I do know that Cro-fab(rattlesnake antivenin) can take several vials to treat a bite, so it can get pricy in a hurry. If the antivenin has a shelf life, you'd be buying very pricy stuff that you might need to toss out unused(hopefully!) and buy all new again every year or however long.

The venom lab down south of me produces venom, but I don't think they produce the actual antivenin themselves.  You could contact them and explain what you need to know and see what advice they could give you. They seemed like super nice folks when I was there.

http://www.medtoxin.com/

As far as someone saying it's bad juju to buy antivenin, that's ridiculous. You're planning for if the worst happens. It's like saying you shouldn't wear your seatbelt because it might cause you to have an accident. I would consider it to be a responsible thing to do, since if you've gotten your antivenin available WHEN/IF you do get a bite, you're not putting the local hospitals in the position of trying to find the right antivenin on short notice.

However, you might check with the local hospitals too, to make certain they can/will administer antivenin that they did not bring in themselves. They might not be able to give you 'outside meds' because of liability.

I applaud you for doing your fact-checking and pre-planning BEFORE you have a hot and before you have an issue of any sort. Whether you end up with hots, decide to have antivenin on hand, etc, it's never bad to research ahead of time.

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JeffD (01-22-2012)

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## mr.spooky

> BTW,, what hots are you talking about?
>  spooky


just quoting myself..... to the OP,,,, what type of snake are you talking about?
 i feel like your dodging the question... some if not most states have laws on venomous reptiles.  is this why your dodging the question?
     i dont think that illegal activity is supported here..........
  spooky

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## wilomn

> From my original post, I have first hand knowledge hospitals with antivenon on hand. I also have first hand knowledge of the Atlanta Zoo carrying antivenon for the snakes they display. I was submitting to the OP that this might help them locate some in their area, and I got blasted for it!!! Furthermore, I respond to venomous snake calls for 2 counties 911 and am a medic.  I wasnt trying to pick a fight, just trying to offer the OP some starting point
> 
> sent from my EVO , with Tapatalk


So, in your area you have some knowledge.

Great.

I suppose that could be applied like a salve over the entirety of the USA, but I'd hate to stake my life on your knowledge.

Out here I know first hand that they don't. Now what? Impasse? 

Zoos, yes indeed, they're so very able and willing to be of assistance to keepers who get bit. Why, we hear of them doing so all the time.

NOT.

We've got Southern Pacifics out here, nasty venom. I believe some poor hiker got nailed and it took over 40 vials of Cro-fab and his hand is permanently crippled. It was on Venom Doc or one of those shows and it was Loma Linda University, on the the top of the line venom treatment centers in the country.

It's great the OP wants to cover his bases, it's just really difficult and expensive. Not impossible, especially if you're wealthy, but difficult.

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## officialhealthtips

Hi,


Can you please tell me if Red Cross Snake-Antivenin.com is still the cheapest online store where to buy antivenom ?


Thanks for your help.

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## KingObeat

> just quoting myself..... to the OP,,,, what type of snake are you talking about?
>  i feel like your dodging the question... some if not most states have laws on venomous reptiles.  is this why your dodging the question?
>      i dont think that illegal activity is supported here..........
>   spooky


 The State I currently live in does not allow ownership of exotic venomous snakes. I'm planning on moving in a couple of months to a State that does allow it. The snake I want to get is a Gaboon Viper.

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## Skiploder

> The State I currently live in does not allow ownership of exotic venomous snakes. I'm planning on moving in a couple of months to a State that does allow it. The snake I want to get is a Gaboon Viper.


This is as much as I will give you:

You will need to get both a BB-IND (investigational new drug permit) and an import permit.    The FDA issues the first and the USDA the latter.

You will need to fill out many forms and the physician you plan on administering the antivenin will have to provide his resume and also fill out some forms.

If memory serves, every year you have to report to the FDA if you had to use any antivenin.

A gaboon envenomation is serious business.  A minimum a 10 vials of antivenin are needed per bite.  When I was buying dispholidus antivenin the cost was $125 per vial - and that was a while ago - but it was the same manufacturer.

Plus you will need full instructions (protocols) if you get bitten.  You also need to find a physician that can properly treat you if you get envenomated.  If you think you can drive yourself to the nearest Kaiser and have some emergency room schlub save your a$$ you are in for a nasty surprise.

As for the manufacturer links and the link to all the forms, you are on your own.  Hopefully the process of working all this out will make you think twice about going forward with this.

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_cmack91_ (01-23-2012)

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## KingObeat

Thanks for the info.

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## officialhealthtips

I bought mine on Red cross shop Snake Antivenin and i really don't mind that it's legal or not !!!

And i could inject it myself if really needed !!! Who minds ??!!?

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## wilomn

> I bought mine on Red cross shop Snake Antivenin and i really don't mind that it's legal or not !!!
> 
> And i could inject it myself if really needed !!! Who minds ??!!?


Wow, ain't you just the smartypants in the group.

Some of us who hang out around here sort of frown on idiots like you posting their illegal activities. Some of us, like me, sort of frown on idiots like you telling anyone that you even have snakes because it's the idiots like you that make all the rest of us look bad.

WHEN you get bit, don't tell us about it. I'm sure it'll be in the paper and on the news, you know, something like, idiot snake owner bitten by venomous snake dies by injecting out dated antivenom improperly for the wrong species of snake.

Rock on dude, you're way cool...

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_Denial_ (02-01-2012)

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## Royal Hijinx

> I bought mine on Red cross shop Snake Antivenin and i really don't mind that it's legal or not !!!
> 
> And i could inject it myself if really needed !!! Who minds ??!!?



Seriously?

You are either:

1. SPAM
2. Idiot
3. All of the above.

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## Skiploder

> I bought mine on Red cross shop Snake Antivenin and i really don't mind that it's legal or not !!!
> 
> And i could inject it myself if really needed !!! Who minds ??!!?



You're going to inject it yourself?

Will you be "injecting" yourself while your head is lodged up your ass or are you going to extract it first?

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## mr.spooky

> You're going to inject it yourself?
> 
> Will you be "injecting" yourself while your head is lodged up your ass or are you going to extract it first?


hehehehehehehehe :Good Job: 
 spooky

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## jason_ladouceur

> You're going to inject it yourself?
> 
> Will you be "injecting" yourself while your head is lodged up your ass or are you going to extract it first?


Nice :Very Happy:   LOL
Don't worry Skip people have been doing things like this for years.  i believe it was in fact first described by Darwin as "Natural Selection".  It's a good thing;  helps to keep the gene pool strong. :Good Job:

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## jason_ladouceur

I would have to agree with the consensus here that obtaining your own anti venom is probably not going to work out for you.  As has been mentioned in addition to it being hard to obtain, having a very limited shelf life, and really only being useful if you have a physician that is well versed in the treatment of exotic snake bite.  Like Skiploader said  in the event of an accident you will need allot of juice, 1 or 2 vials is not going to cut it.  A man I knew received a bite from 1 fang in his index finger from a large naja nigricollis.  He did have his own anti-venom;  at the hospital they used his entire supply (12 vials if memory serves correct)  he still lost the finger but at least he didn`t lose his hand, arm or life.  I think if you are serious about keeping Hots and you want to try to have access to a source of anti-venom that your best course of action would be to locate an anti-venom bank that stores SAIMR Polyvalent, become a member;  and hope that if you do get bit that some other member hasnt used up there supply before you needed it.  On another note I would like to say that I certainly understand your desire to keep Gaboons.  They are in fact the exact reason that I myself started keeping Hots.  I must say though they are NOT a starter Hot.  Over the years I have kept many different Hot snakes including 3 of the 4 large bitis and i can tell you without a doubt adult Gabs are one of the most challenging snakes to handle safely.  Their sheer size and strength make them very difficult to stick handle.  Even on 2 hooks the weight of an adult Gab makes them very hard to lift even when they are behaving themselves.  Because of the strength they possess and the length of their fangs if you should ever need to take one behind the head you had better be experienced and comfortable with the procedure because if you fingers are even slightly out of position you WILL get bitten count on it.  They are also one of the most difficult snakes to read I have ever worked with.  Sometimes just the slightest twitch of an eye is all that proceeds a strike, and sometimes you don`t even get that.  Perhaps that most dangerous aspect of Gaboons though is the fact that they appear so placid.  It would be very easy for even a seasoned keeper who has seen with their own eyes just what these snakes are capable of to be lulled in to a false sense of security by a snake that does nothing more than hiss for years.  The problem is of course the day you go into the cage expecting the same old blow hard do nothing snake is the day they decide to explode with a strike that is almost too fast to see and far longer than you would think they are capable of and if youre not ready for it youre in trouble.  You really need to make sure you are completely comfortable with all the tools and techniques required to safely handle venomous snakes before you even attempt to tackle any of the large Bitis. If you havent already I would strongly suggest you spend at least a couple of years maintaining something a little more manageable like Crotalus first.

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## officialhealthtips

> You're going to inject it yourself?
> 
> Will you be "injecting" yourself while your head is lodged up your ass or are you going to extract it first?




Will you let yourself die like a street dog ?

Your choice !

I prefer to kill myself by injecting antivenom than doing nothing like stupid

:-)

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## Denial

> Will you let yourself die like a street dog ?
> 
> 
> :-)


lol who says crap like this?

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Emily Hubbard (02-01-2012)

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## mr.spooky

> lol who says crap like this?


the type of person that has NO experience with hots,and probably zoer experience with snakes in general.  I would also guess under the age of 21.
Its obvious that the OP Has no experience with hots otherwise these questions wouldn't be ask... This is an accident waiting to happen.
 spooky

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## Skiploder

> Will you let yourself die like a street dog ?
> 
> Your choice !
> 
> I prefer to kill myself by injecting antivenom than doing nothing like stupid
> 
> :-)


First - to answer your question:

No.  I follow the legal process.  Your stupid question gave me only two options - breaking the law like an idiot and incorrectly trying to self medicate myself like a cement-headed moron or dying.

The third option should have been to act like a responsible hot owner and obtain non-FDA approved antivenin through the proper process and have a qualified physician on board to treat me in the case of an envenomation.

Second - getting back to your lack of judgment:

So you're telling us that you will inject antivenin much like a flu shot?  That it's some miracle drug that will make the effects of envenomation magically disappear?  That you won't need any aftercare?  

Have you figured out how many vials you will need Einstein? 

Newsflash - you don't just "inject" antivenin. 

Newsflash - most hospitals will perform a horse-serum sensitivity test to make sure you don't have an adverse reaction to the antivenin.

Newsflash - you will need aftercare.

Newsflash - after you "inject" your vial of antivenin, you will need to go to a hospital.  When they find out you purchased the antivenin without a permit, they will contact the Feds.

You will then be saddled with a large hospital bill and a large legal bill.

Good luck, you are gonna need it.  Hope you don't have a massive systemic reaction to it!  I would hate to think that as you are dying on the floor of your kitchen from a massive bout of anaphylaxis that your last thought would be that maybe you should have listened to me.

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## wolfy-hound

Stop feeding trolls. They won't be satisfied, and will simply continue dancing to get the attention.

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## jparker1167

a gaboon viper is not a good first hot, its not something you want to learn with.

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