# Other Pythons > Giant Pythons >  Platinum Tiger Retic vs Caramel/Blond Retic

## influence

Hi everyone  :Smile: 

So, a follow up from my previous thread, I have my eyes set on this male platinum tiger baby which I plan on getting by end of this month.
However  :Very Happy:  the seller also had a very interesting looking caramel/blond baby male available.
I would like to seek the advice and opinion from fellow retic keepers on which morph gets better with age? in terms of coloration, temperament and maybe something else extra with each respective morph (which I don't know of  :Razz: )
I have seen a few pictures and videos of both the plat tiger and the caramel/blond, but still if you have any that you keep personally, I'd appreciate if you can share them! The caramel/blond which is on sale has some white coloration to it, and I don't know whether if this normal for caramel/blonds or is it rare? (pics are not available, sorry!)
Also, the seller said that retics with tiger genes tend to be more aggressive compared to other genes. I wonder if this is true?

So everyone, please share your thoughts on each morph: platinum tiger vs caramel/blond. I am really undecided now, plus the price is almost the same (the caramel/blond approximately USD30 pricier).

Thanks!

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## AjBalls

The blondes start off white basically almost like an amel. As they age the white starts to turn to purple and they'll look more like a dark purple albino retic. Myself personally would go with the blonde. Just because you see a lot more patty tigers around and I'd rather have something less people have.

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influence (03-26-2015)

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## reptileexperts

Blonde, start a blonde GC project and run with it later - those make some of the best looking GC out there. 

But you're fronting the food bill, clean up, and raising it - so you need to go with what you prefer. 

Just remember  from a breeder standpoint - the Blonde will take longer time for a project to come to finish since it's a recessive gene. There is nothing wrong with a platy tiger - but if you already have the tiger gene, why add more to the same morph pool . . .

PS - prehistoric has  blonde tiger / het blonde pair in the RAACA auction going on right now and ending this evening if I'm not mistaken. May be in your price range.

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influence (03-26-2015)

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## influence

Finally, I have decided to go with the blonde. I'll be picking up the retic next week.. so stoked!!  :Very Happy: 
Thanks everyone for the advice!
Btw, is it true that blonde/caramel is a recessive gene that needs a co-dom gene (i.e GC, tiger, platinum, etc) for a successful breeding?
I am actually confused with blonde and caramel, I looked up world of retics and there are 2 different morphs, the albino blonde (which doesn't look like the one I'm about to buy) and there is caramel T+ (no pictures for this one in world of retics). So which one is which? The snake I'm about to get is almost white and according to the seller will turn darker (caramel colored) as it ages. And according to Prehistoric Pets, the caramel is a darkened albino form  :Confused: 
Planning to go down the caramel (or is it blonde) GC path soon when I have the money for a GC female  :Smile:

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## reptileexperts

Yeah Caramel Albino is Blonde - also referred to as Indo Caramel. They start out extremely light almost like a white phase albino, but by the time they mature, they intensify with coloration becoming darker than the darkest purples. 

You do not need another gene to make it work. Blonde / Caramel is recessive, and can be produced from visual x visual, het x het, or Visual x het. 

Visual x normal will result in all hets.

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influence (03-29-2015)

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## influence

> Yeah Caramel Albino is Blonde - also referred to as Indo Caramel. They start out extremely light almost like a white phase albino, but by the time they mature, they intensify with coloration becoming darker than the darkest purples. 
> 
> You do not need another gene to make it work. Blonde / Caramel is recessive, and can be produced from visual x visual, het x het, or Visual x het. 
> 
> Visual x normal will result in all hets.


Thanks for the info!
Just wondering if anyone has pics of a  blonde GC? what other morphs will produce awesome offspring if paired  with a male caramel?
My goodness.. I can't wait to get hold of the caramel!  :Very Happy:

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## reptileexperts

Aubrey Pruitt has the only Indo GC's out there and they are amazing

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## influence

> Aubrey Pruitt has the only Indo GC's out there and they are amazing


I think the indo GC is on his facebook display picture? does he has a website? (sorry I'm not from the US).
To produce the caramel GC, would require a male indo caramel and a female GC right? will it still be produceable if its a male GC and a female indo caramel?
Sorry, my understanding of snake genetics is very poor.
Thanks!  :Smile:

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## reptileexperts

Either one will take 2 generations. 

Indo x GC = GC het Indo 

GC het Indo x Indo = GC Indo and Indos and GCs 

Etiher way, you'll have to breed daughter to father or son to mother to get the results you're after

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influence (03-30-2015)

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## influence

> Either one will take 2 generations. 
> 
> Indo x GC = GC het Indo 
> 
> GC het Indo x Indo = GC Indo and Indos and GCs 
> 
> Etiher way, you'll have to breed daughter to father or son to mother to get the results you're after


Or.. I can pair him up with a GC het Indo female right? (If i can find one  :Razz: )
I'm wondering would there be any issues in breeding offsprings with their parents or even between siblings for snakes?
I can't remember where but I think I read online somewhere on issues of inbreeding snakes, but that was for kingsnakes.. I'm not sure, maybe I'm wrong.
Appreciate your advice, reptileexperts! And thanks!  :Smile:

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## reptileexperts

Answer this shortly.  On my way into work. 


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## reptileexperts

> Or.. I can pair him up with a GC het Indo female right? (If i can find one )
> I'm wondering would there be any issues in breeding offsprings with their parents or even between siblings for snakes?
> I can't remember where but I think I read online somewhere on issues of inbreeding snakes, but that was for kingsnakes.. I'm not sure, maybe I'm wrong.
> Appreciate your advice, reptileexperts! And thanks!


There are only 2-3 GC het indo in the US right now, Aubrey Pruitt had, or sold, the only ones. 

As far as back breeding to get recessive traits, yeah its not exactly ideal - but heres the thing. Reptiles are very simple in terms of genetic make up, there is not a whole lot of complexity that goes into coding things in their DNA that can screw up when crossing parents to children (inbreeding). In humans, we are very very complex organisms, thus when we inbreed we have a greater potential of crossing lethal genes together that are normally not expressed. These genes are referred to as being "lethal recessives" that is, recessive traits that are not expressed since each person tends to have a few single copies bouncing around in their genetic makeup. The problem is, those in your own blood line (family) tend to have the same recessive lethal genes. So when you breed with a close relatively, these genes begin getting expressed. 

In snakes, there are not many lethal recessives that are hiding. We tend to express most of these or till them out due to the large amount of inbreeding that naturally occurs. Is it a good thing to do for many generations? No, this is what is referred to as a genetic depression, you need to add variety to your blood lines as you can. But line breeding / back crossing / inbreeding is something that occurs a lot in captivity, and frequently enough in nature. 

(for more information - look into a paper that was written in regards to Timber Rattler dens being isolated by highways which forced inbreeding across many generations. When a genetic depression was noticed - essentially all the members of the den becoming weak to the same thing which can cause a selection event to wipe out the entire colony - biologist began moving timbers from dens across the highways to mix the blood. Now we create wildlife bridges that allow these animals to pass securely to one another, thus increasing the genetic flow, and decreasing genetic depression). 

http://www.bio.sdsu.edu/pub/clark/Si...ke_pop_gen.pdf 
Clark, Rulon W., et al. "Integrating individual behaviour and landscape genetics: the population structure of timber rattlesnake hibernacula." Molecular Ecology 17.3 (2008): 719-730.

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influence (04-01-2015)

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## reptileexperts

http://noss.cos.ucf.edu/papers/Clark...0al%202010.pdf the other paper I was mentioning specifically - finally found it 

Clark, Rulon W., William S. Brown, Randy Stechert, and Kelly R. Zamudio. "Roads, interrupted dispersal, and genetic diversity in timber rattlesnakes." Conservation Biology 24, no. 4 (2010): 1059-1069.

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influence (04-01-2015)

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## influence

Wow! These are extremely valuable information you shared  :Smile:  Thank you very much reptileexperts!  :Good Job: 
I will try to look for a female GC het Indo if available, if not, I'll go the long way.. which is ok I guess, since I'm in no rush. I'm in for the passion for these amazing snakes  :Very Happy: 
And maybe later add some other genes as the studies suggest.

Thanks again!!

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## influence

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[IMG][/IMG]

So here's the update on the caramel boy! I decided to name him Haro  :Very Happy: 
About 2ft plus, hatched June 2014 from Prehistoric Pets line.
The seller gave me a yellow bar just in case for mite protection, as per below picture:

[IMG][/IMG]

I wonder what this anti-mite 'bar' or 'stick'? anyone has ever used it before? What brand is it?
The seller told me not to let contact water and put it in the enclosure, and I decided to put it in a perforated deli-cup in the enclosure, just to protect in from fecal and urate matter. I have not noticed any mite whatsoever on his body, underneath his scale, pits and eye area. (I have provent-a-mite and mite-off on standby).

Anyhow, the snake is super lovely and gentle  :Razz: 
A little bit camera shy but he is explorative and always curious  :Very Happy: 

[IMG][/IMG]

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## reptileexperts

That's a hot shots. Very powerful do not take it out of the container. 


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## influence

> That's a hot shots. Very powerful do not take it out of the container. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Whoa! but the seller asked me to put it in the enclosure, and when i got the snake, the pest strip is in the temporary tub used to carry the snake (without any barrier like a deli cup) and he was in it for a few days!
A quick google showed that the pest strip can cause a few health issue (i.e neurological disorder, etc) to both snakes and humans, I've already moved it away from my animals as soon as I read it  :Sad: 
But I wonder if he is going to be okay? Since he was in an enclosure with the pest strip for a few days before this  :Please:  maybe I should give him a light bath/soaking and do a complete enclosure clean-up.

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