# Miscellaneous Herp Interests > Venomous Animals >  your thoughts on "venomoid" (defanged)

## Ginevive

What are your thoughts on "defanging" venomous snakes? People do this to venomous snakes to make them more desirable as pets, and also when using them in acts, such as snake "charming." They do not actually defang the snake, but they do perform a sometimes-traumatic surgery to remove the venom producing glands.
Personally, I think it's horrible to take away a natural part of an animal just to have it as a pet. Then again, we do that to cats/dogs by neutering them, and this in itself is a good thing, because it keeps the population down, thankfully. But to take a venomous snake's venom glands away, just seems sickening and purposeless to me.
I have seen "venomoid" (the technical term for "defanged" snakes for sale on KS classifieds, and it really bothered me.  Your thoughts?

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## The_Godfather

Shouldn't be done. If you want a void, you don't need a venomous. 

Venomoids have their glands removed and typically replaced with implants to keep the head from appearing messed up.

Defanged I assume would simply be defanged.

Besides the moral issues behind this... It's also bad husbandry, because the venom aids in digestion.

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## Smulkin

I think it's horrid - the John Bobbits of the snake world - hots for people who shouldn't keep hots etc.  I really can't think of a good analogy for this - it's nothing at all like having your cat declawed or throwinig a muzzle on your dog.  It's stripping away one of the defining characteristics and tools of predation from the snake - would be like "bobbing" the tail off a scorpion.  It baffles me.

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## Ginevive

I can't believe people can sell them on other sites. I guess that as long as it makes them money, the sites really don't care. Sad.

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## gozetec02

People who do this IMO have lost sight of the husbandry aspect of keeping reptiles or amphibians as pets.  Our job as the caretakers of these magnificent animals to put as little stress on their lives as possible.  And also to reproduce as close as we can, their natural habitat.  Removing the venom glands from a snake to make it a better pet is like cutting the legs off a cat so it doesnt run away from you when you want to pet it.

When I hear stories like this it makes me sick to my stomach.

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## Marla

I think it's appalling, but I will admit to having had a pet skunk that had been "de-scented", which removed its natural defense mechanism, so maybe that makes me a bit of a hypocrite.

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## The_Godfather

John Bobbits--- hahahahahaha

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## rex322

the venom, in my opinion, is one of the biggest things that make them so interesting. while it could be a good thing to certain extent, its still not right. its cruel, and i imagine it can cause big problems for the snake. i think its wrong, and anyone who feels they have to do this to own one, obviously shouldnt and is not ready to own it.

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## JLC

I agree with everyone so far.  It's an abominable practice.  If a person is not capable of keeping hots (and let's face it folks, most of us are not!) then there are plenty of other fascinating and wonderful non-venomous snakes for us to keep.

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## gozetec02

I saw on the Jeff Corwin Experience where these "snake charmers" in India would capture Cobras by the hundreds and keep them in small clay containers.  They would cut the fangs out of thier mouths so they would be "safer" but he said unfortunately all the snakes die of either dehydration or infection.  He showed one cobra that had its fangs removed and it had an abcess on top of its head from an infection.  I just say that removing the fangs removes the means in which they eat.  And infection seems highly probable.

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## JLC

Yeah....there's nothing charming about the snake-charmers.

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## wendy

I think if people will stop buying venomoids, there won't be such a market for them. There are more than enough non-venomous snakes out there to keep and enjoy. I believe venomoids are for people that don't have enough balls to own a real one. Just takes the fun out of it too, why bother?
I think defanging is worse, it's gotta be painfull for the snake. The fangs will grow back and they will do it again. Wonder how they would feel if someone ripped thier teeth out?

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## UberAlice

I agree with everyone so far. It's like people that buy Burms and Retics and then try to sell them or give them away when they're 10+ feet and nasty; don't get it if you can't handle it. 
I've considered owning hots before, and will again; I find them intriguing. But this is knowing full well that if I get bit, it's my fault, and I need to have the antivenom on hand or at least someone available to take me to the doctor immediately. 
It's cruel to punish an animal for something that isn't its fault.

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## sophie42204

I agree.  Kind of off topic but, cat declawing is just as an abominable practice as venemoid snakes.  Both practices are just plain cruel!

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## SatanicIntention

I agree with ya'll on both subjects. Poor snakes. It's like going to the dentist with no painkillers whatsoever, ouch. On the other hand, cat declawing is fine if it's done RIGHT. If the vet doesn't get the entire bone the nail is attached to, it will grow back and abscess right through the cat's toe. Just so everything is taken out, it won't grow back and create problems. It's also important to get them on pain management even before the surgery is even done. I, myself, don't like it since the cat can't defend itself if it happens to accidentally get outside.

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## normballpython2

i agree it makes no sense to defang a venomous snake u are putting ur self in a safe position while causing ur pet some massive pain. u are helping ur self and being selfish towards ur pet and that is to me considered animal cruelty and who ever practices this should be sent to jail. man i need to lay off the cofee.

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## Super_Smash

> I agree with everyone so far. It's like people that buy Burms and Retics and then try to sell them or give them away when they're 10+ feet and nasty; don't get it if you can't handle it. 
> I've considered owning hots before, and will again; I find them intriguing. But this is knowing full well that if I get bit, it's my fault, and I need to have the antivenom on hand or at least someone available to take me to the doctor immediately. 
> It's cruel to punish an animal for something that isn't its fault.


i was gona say the top part... butthead  :Smile: 

if you cant handle it, dont get it. we have people come in ALL the time at my work and try to get rid of puppies that chewed up ONE shoe. if you're going to get a puppy, expect some damage if its not kept in a cage. if you're going to get a venomous snake, be prepared in case you get bitten. its silly to buy a hot and then think "oh, he'll like me, he'd never bite me! theres no risk at all!"

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## Python-77

Mutilating snakes so that you can have it as a pet is jsut plain wrong, removing the musk glands from a skunk isnt wrong so long as it will be a pet its entire life. declawing cats is a heated subject. My cat is front declawed, and adapted very fast to using her back legs for defence when she doesnt want to be bothered by my dogs.

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## SPJ

I don't agree with this practice at all but am still learning about it.


Maybe Kara can provide insight since NERD keeps them and Kevin has assisted in the procedure.

They would be the best people to ask about voids since they have experience with them.

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## Adam_Wysocki

> Maybe Kara can provide insight since NERD keeps them and Kevin has assisted in the procedure.


That kind of stuff is probably best suited for a discussion on Fauna.  :Wink: 

-adam

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## daniel1983

> That kind of stuff is probably best suited for a discussion on Fauna. 
> 
> -adam


ha ha.....yep  :Smile:  .....and not like it has already been beat to death over there  :Smile:

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## mr~python

i think its wrong unless theres a good reason for it. like on croc hunter they had a fierce snake or a taipan(i forget which one) and its venom glands had become infected. i guess the snakes life was in jeopardy because of it so they put the snake under anastesia(sp?) and defanged it. they fed it f/t anyway so it didnt have to kill its prey. 
do you guys think thats a good reason to do it?

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## HelicopterPilot

I would never have a venomoid. I would never defang an animal. Venomoids though hmm I dunno I still think they are wrong and shouldn't be done. If they have to be done I would definetly want the snake to be given laughing gas and that it receives no pain and has implants so the head isnt deformed. 

But I havn't found a reason to have a venomoid so I would forget about it.

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## SatanicIntention

Umm... Chitlin's... This thread was dragged up from LAST YEAR... 

But anyway. Why "shouldn't" it be discussed here? It is an appropriate topic, regardless of what forum it is discussed at, for people to express their opinions.

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## Adam_Wysocki

> But anyway. Why "shouldn't" it be discussed here? It is an appropriate topic, regardless of what forum it is discussed at, for people to express their opinions.


It wasn't the topic that I was referring to. The mods/admins here always do a great job at keeping the kiddies in line and I think we'd do fine with an intelligent discussion about voids.

I was just suggesting that calling Kara out on a year old thread reminded me a little bit of the 70+ page "NERD/Void" thread on Fauna that was eventually locked and was probably something better left for "over there". 

-adam

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## SatanicIntention

True... we have enough to make us old and grey here  :Smile:  *looks for her walker*

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## SPJ

A year old. Wow. Didn't look at the date. 

The section must not get much traffic if it's still right in the front. Gotta check dates before posting otherwise I'll be responding to ads for an animal that was for sale last year. :Redfaced:

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## iceman25

I'm more interested in knowing what would happen to the snake with the venom gone. I assume that they they inject venom to kill their prey AND begin the digestion of the tissue. How would this work if their venom glands are taken out? Oh and I also do not condone the practice!

Raj.

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## HelicopterPilot

I think venomoid would mostly affect a hemotoxin snake. Hemotoxin is the type of venom that breaks down tissue if I am correct. am I? neurotoxins affect the nervous system. I am not sure hwo neurotoxins break down the tissue or digest.

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## kjc

> I think it's horrid - the John Bobbits of the snake world - hots for people who shouldn't keep hots etc. I really can't think of a good analogy for this - it's nothing at all like having your cat declawed or throwinig a muzzle on your dog. It's stripping away one of the defining characteristics and tools of predation from the snake - would be like "bobbing" the tail off a scorpion. It baffles me.


i completely dont agree either, to me it would be like those people who have their dogs voice boxes removed so they dont have to hear them bark......sad.(is that a good analogy?) this type of stuff makes me sad to be a human sometimes  :Sad:  when people do the voice box thing on dogs, theres this part of me going " i hope someone breaks into your house while your sleeping and you dont know because you mutilated your dog!'

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