# Ball Pythons > BP Husbandry >  Does my UTH need a thermostat? What about Thermometers?

## The Serpent Merchant

Ok, so I post this information on a daily basis here on BP.net so I decided to make a write up for future reference.

The most important aspect of keeping reptiles in captivity is providing the proper temperatures/humidity to simulate the reptiles natural environment. 

There are a few options available today to provide heat for your reptile. All have their advantages and disadvantages. I'm going to go over the most popular heat sources in the reptile industry: Heat lamps, Ceramic heat emitters, Under Tank Heaters/flexwatt, and Radiant Heat Panels

*The heat lamp:*

The simplest of all heat sources, these are incandescent light bulbs that project heat downward  warming everything in the cage (including the air!)

When dealing with nocturnal reptiles like ball pythons infrared heat lamps are preferred to white lamps as the bright white light can stress them out and cannot be left on 24/7 meaning that an additional heat source would be needed for night the heat. This is not the case with infrared lamps as they put out very little visible light compared to the amount of heat that they out out.

I suggest getting a heat bulb one wattage size above what you think you need (providing that your lamp can handle the wattage) and use a lamp dimmer to turn down the heat produced to get things just right.


*Pros:*

Simple to useCheapHeat everything directly under them
*Cons:*

Are often too bright to be left on 24/7 (thought some are not *Infrared/backlight               bulbs put out very little visible light)Can burn a reptile that comes in direct contact (needs to be in a lamp outside the cage except in terrestrial lizard cages)Use large amounts of electricityGreatly reduce the amount of humidity in the cage

*Ceramic Heat Emitters:
*

Ceramic Heat Emitters or CHE's or short work the same way electric stoves with coils work. They radiate heat without producing any visible light. These are great for providing heat 24/7 without having to worry about brightness. 

CHE's tend to get very hot and except for desert reptiles most will require a lamp dimmer or thermostat to keep the heat output in the correct ranges.

*Pros:*

Simple to useCheapDo not produce any light

*Cons:*

Can get very hotCan burn a reptile that comes in direct contact (needs to be in a lamp outside the cage except in terrestrial lizard cages)Use large amounts of electricityGreatly reduces that amount of humidity in the cage

*Under Tank Heaters (UTH's)/Flexwatt:
*

UTH's are by far the most popular heat source for ball pythons since they do not effect the humidity levels in the cage. UTH's attach to the bottom of the cage (on the outside) and heat the floor of the cage. They do NOT change the temperature of the air in the cage so if the air temperature in the cage gets below 75 degrees an additional heat source (usually a heat lamp or radiant heat panel) will be necessary. UTH's get very hot, in fact they can and will get hot enough to kill your snake if they are not regulated. A thermostat is the best way to regulate a UTH. Lamp dimmers will work but the heat output of UTH's changes when the temperature of the room they are in changes so lamp dimmers will have to be constantly monitored/adjusted. Thermostats on the other hand automatically adjust the amount of power going to the UTH so you won't have to adjust them once they are dialed in. You will also need a good probed thermometer. because UTH's do not change the air temperature in the cage the stick on/non-probed thermometers will not be able to tell you how hot the UTH is making the cage floor. If you do not know hot hot the cage floor is your snake can easily get burns (which can be fatal) 

I will go over thermostats and thermometers at the end of this write up.

*Pros:*

Does not produce any lightDoes not reduce humidity at allUses very little power

*Cons:*

Must be controlled by a thermostat (which can be expensive)Malfunctions can be hard to notice

*Radiant Heat Panels:*

Radiant Heat Panels or RHP's for short are popular in the PVC caging world. RHP's do not work well for tubs/racks/glass tanks. RHP's are mounted to the ceiling of a custom made cage/professionally made PCV cage and radiate heat downwards. They do not produce any light.

Some do not require a thermostat, but many do. so I will not include that in the Pros/Cons since it is variable.

*Pros:* 

Produce no lightWork very well along with UTH's or alone

*Cons:*

Expensive

Here are good places to get RHP's:

RBI: http://www.reptilebasics.com/rbi-radiant-heat-panels

Pro Products: http://www.pro-products.com/index.ph...d=55&Itemid=59

*Now I'll go over thermostats and thermometers.*

Thermostats are devices that use a temperature probe to measure the amount of heat that a heat source is outputting. They them vary the amount of power going to said heat source to keep the temperature in the desired range that you set it to. There are 2 major types of thermostats. On/off style thermostats, and Proportional thermostats.

*On/Off Style Thermostats:*

On/Off style thermostats such as true Hydrofarm, Ranco, and Johnsons thermostats are cheap but lack accuracy. they work the same way a home A/C thermostat works. They run the heat source at 100% power until the set temperature is achieved. The thermostat then turns the heat source completely off until the "swing" is reached. The swing refers to how many degrees below the set temperature the thermostat lets the temperature fall before turning the heat source back on again. This is why they are inaccurate.

*Pros:*

CheapWill do the job

*Cons:*

InaccurateUsually don't have some of the additional safety features that proportional thermostats have.

Here are some good on/off style thermostats:

Hydrofarm: http://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-MTPR.../dp/B000NZZG3S

Ranco: http://www.reptilebasics.com/ranco-etc-111000-pre-wired

*Proportional thermostats:*

Proportional thermostats such as the Herpstat, Helix, and VE-200/300 are extremely accurate and much safer than on/off style thermostats do to more advanced design and high build quality. This does come at a price though. The cheapest I have seen a proportional thermostat sell for (new) is $99. The cost is worth it though. These thermostats especially the herpstat have far more capabilities than on/off thermostats and as I already said are more accurate and safer. Instead on simply running the heat source at 100% power or 0% power proportional thermostats adjust the amount of power in small increments. this allows them to maintain the correct temperature very accurately (usually to a fraction of a degree off of the set temperature)

*Pros:*

SafeAccurateMore features (such as the ability to automatically drop temperatures at programed times/regulate humidity/turn lights on/off/etc.)

*Cons:
*
Cost

Here are somme good proportional thermostats:

Herpstat: http://spyderrobotics.com/

VE line: http://www.reptilebasics.com/thermostats (note the VE-100 is not a proportional thermostat)

Helix: http://www.helixcontrols.com/DBS1000.htm

*Thermometers:*

Thermometers are very important they tell you exactly how cot/cold your cage is. You should never guess how hot/cold your cage is. The stick on thermometers sold in pet stores aren't very good. they are terribly inaccurate, overpriced, and don't measure in the right places. What you want is a good digital thermometer with a probe like this one:



This particular thermometer is sold at Walmart for $12 and measures 2 temperatures, and humidity. A single unit is all you need in the typical ball python cage set up. The probe will go on the hot side (directly over/under the heat source) and the unit will sit on the cool side and measure the cool side temperature/humidity.

Another option is temperature guns. these measure surface temperatures of anything that you point them at (Glass/anything reflective will not work well with temperature guns as it will mess with the readings)

Temperature guns are handy if you have multiple cages and want to be able to check them all easily.

Here is a good source: http://www.reptilebasics.com/thermometers

Questions, Comments, and Concerns are welcome

Thanks for reading hope it was helpful.

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## alittleFREE

Very nice, detailed and informative write up. Thank you for doing this.

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_The Serpent Merchant_ (06-08-2012)

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## pap5033

> Ok, so I post this information on a daily basis here on BP.net so I decided to make a write up for future reference.
> 
> The most important aspect of keeping reptiles in captivity is providing the proper temperatures/humidity to simulate the reptiles natural environment. 
> 
> There are a few options available today to provide heat for your reptile. All have their advantages and disadvantages. I'm going to go over the most popular heat sources in the reptile industry: Heat lamps, Ceramic heat emitters, Under Tank Heaters/flexwatt, and Radiant Heat Panels
> 
> *The heat lamp:*
> 
> The simplest of all heat sources, these are incandescent light bulbs that project heat downward  warming everything in the cage (including the air!)
> ...



Does it matter whether or not you choose to have a digital/analog thermometer?  If so, how many of each should I have in my tank to make sure I am controlling environment temp/humidity?

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_The Serpent Merchant_ (06-11-2012)

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## The Serpent Merchant

Analogue vs digital doesn't matter. What matters is that the thermometer is of good quality and measures temperature in the correct place. 

The analogue thermoneters sold in pet stores are absolute junk and should never be used. They not only are inaccurate but measure temperatures in the wrong place. They tend to measure the temperature of the wall they are stuck too and not the cage temperature. 

There are probed analogue thermometers and high quality non-probed thermoneters out there. But they are costly. The cheapest I have seen one was $50 each. 

Probed digital thermoneters are decently accurate (not as accurate as more expensive digital/analogue thermoneters but are good enough for us) they usually cost $10-$20 and some even measure humidity as well. 

In the typical ball python cage you need 2 thermometers and 1 hygrometer. You need 1 thermometer on the hot side and 1 thermometer on the cool side. If you are using a under tank heater then the hot side thermometer need to have a probe and the probe needs to be on the floor of the cage directly over the UTH.

It is important to mention that thermometers do not control temperatures, only measure them. Thermostats on the other hand control temperatures. Both are necessary.

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## mackynz

Sticky this!

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_The Serpent Merchant_ (06-11-2012)

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## satomi325

Awesome write up. I feel like we all write this to new members daily, so this will be a good source for them to look at.

*Sticky NOW*

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_The Serpent Merchant_ (06-11-2012)

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## West Coast Jungle

Everything looks good except you made no mention of heat rope which is used in Animal Plastics and Vision racks. Works great and worth mentioning. I use both flexxwatt and heat rope.

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_The Serpent Merchant_ (06-11-2012)

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## Annarose15

One "con" I would note for UTHs is that they should only be used to create a "hot spot," and are generally ineffective for increasing ambient temperatures. Enclosures kept in rooms below ~76 deg F may need a combined UTH and overhead heating setup to maintain proper gradients and belly heat.

Other than that, excellent job!  :Good Job:

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_The Serpent Merchant_ (06-11-2012)

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## heathers*bps

I agree with a sticky as well. Awesome job Aaron  :Good Job:

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_The Serpent Merchant_ (06-11-2012)

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## The Serpent Merchant

> Everything looks good except you made no mention of heat rope which is used in Animal Plastics and Vision racks. Works great and worth mentioning. I use both flexxwatt and heat rope.


I don't have enough experience with heat rope to feel comfortable mentioning it. If you or anyone else wants to add heat rope be my guest.

As far as I know heat rope and flexwatt have very similar pros/cons both need a thermostat. What I'm not sure about is if heat rope increases air temps or not. I just didn't want to put up bad information about something this important.

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## BPLuvr

Very nice write up!  :Good Job:   I still think Ranco is a great thermostat.  They can be set to 1 degree differential which I hardly consider inaccurate.  I know they are made for HVAC but we have cold boxes at work which store Acetaldehyde.  Ranco's control the temperature in the boxes.  Acetaldehyde has a boiling point of 68 degrees and is stored in sealed containers.  This means if a Ranco fails the containers stored inside would start exploding!  :Surprised:

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Kaorte (06-22-2012),_The Serpent Merchant_ (06-11-2012)

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## sara208

Thanks for posting.

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_The Serpent Merchant_ (06-12-2012)

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## Robyn@SYR

Temp Guns measure glass just fine. They are commonly used to measure water temps, and you can measure water tank (aquarium) temps "through" the glass and see how much of a thermal gradient you have. 

The Temp Gun is still taking the surface temperature of the glass itself, but the water and glass come to an equilibrium temperature, and the temp you read will be within a degree or two of actual.

Temp Gun variance with materials is related to Emissivity, and some esoteric materials do have a vastly different Emissivity than the standard 95E. Carbon, gold, mercury, all have wildly different E settings. If you have an adjustable Temp Gun, like our PE-2, you can change the E setting to account for that.

Once you set your unit to measure carbon though, it won't measure anything else correctly. 

Your skin, your desk, the wall, glass, water, common liquids, substrates, basking spots, incubators, all your common reptile uses, the default 95E setting will measure them quickly and accurately. 

Highly polished aluminum may have a different E setting, and you may see that if you try and measure the polished dome of a clip lamp, for example. But that E variance is also nullified if you just put a piece of scotch tape over the surface. BAM, back to 95E.

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JLC (06-12-2012),_The Serpent Merchant_ (06-14-2012)

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## whispersinmyhead

Sticky this!
This is an excellent write up.  Thanks for posting this.

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_The Serpent Merchant_ (06-14-2012)

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## Mike41793

I agree this should be stickied.  
I have heat cable or heat rope in the AP rack i bought recently.  It works almost identical to flexwatt imo.  It doesnt distribute the heat quite as well as flexwatt but not a big enough difference to make it a con imo.  My snakes dont seem to notice a difference lol.

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_The Serpent Merchant_ (06-14-2012)

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## DooLittle

> Very nice, detailed and informative write up. Thank you for doing this.


X2, thanks Aaron!

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

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_The Serpent Merchant_ (06-14-2012)

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## whispersinmyhead

> I agree this should be stickied.  
> I have heat cable or heat rope in the AP rack i bought recently.  It works almost identical to flexwatt imo.  It doesnt distribute the heat quite as well as flexwatt but not a big enough difference to make it a con imo.  My snakes dont seem to notice a difference lol.


Agreed. This post is an excellent start for a beginner. It gives them the core information regarding heating, thermometers and thermostats. Specific questions can then be asked in the forum.

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_The Serpent Merchant_ (06-14-2012)

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## sandra

Very helpful! Thank you!  :Smile:

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_The Serpent Merchant_ (06-25-2012)

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## Burzurk

Awsome Sticky i learned alot from this thank you  :Smile:

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_The Serpent Merchant_ (08-14-2012)

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## Capray

Why is this not stickied???

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_The Serpent Merchant_ (09-19-2012)

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## ewaldrep

Thanks, I got a lot of good info from this post!

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_The Serpent Merchant_ (09-25-2012)

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## martin82531

vote for sticky

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_The Serpent Merchant_ (11-30-2012)

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## yellowbelly76

Here is my question...where do you place the thermostat probe in relation to a UTH? Should it go between the UTH and the glass (where it would likely get messed up from the glue on the UTH) or inside the tank, between the glass and substrate (I'm using carpet currently, as I thought it would be easier and cheaper than a wood based substrate)? Thanks.

Aaron

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## mercerasian

> Here is my question...where do you place the thermostat probe in relation to a UTH? Should it go between the UTH and the glass (where it would likely get messed up from the glue on the UTH) or inside the tank, between the glass and substrate (I'm using carpet currently, as I thought it would be easier and cheaper than a wood based substrate)? Thanks.
> 
> Aaron


Either or really. I put mine inside the tank over the heat pad. I figure I want the hottest temp my snake will come in contact with not the highest the UTH will get which is two different things because of the glass in between.

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## yellowbelly76

> Either or really. I put mine inside the tank over the heat pad. I figure I want the hottest temp my snake will come in contact with not the highest the UTH will get which is two different things because of the glass in between.



That makes sense merc. What is a safe temp to set on the stat, to ensure that my BP doesn't get a burn? I'm new to BP's, and only got mine a week ago today, and not sure how hot is too hot. I want to make sure he is happy and healthy. Thanks again.

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## martin82531

> Either or really. I put mine inside the tank over the heat pad. I figure I want the hottest temp my snake will come in contact with not the highest the UTH will get which is two different things because of the glass in between.


WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG

You never want the probe inside the tank, the snake can either dislodge the placement of the probe, water can spill on it or the snake can pee on it. If any of these things happen and they will, your UTH will spike in temperature causing serious injury to your snake. 

The probe ALWAYS goes on the outside of the tank, the temperature will be set slightly higher than the desired temperature you want to achieve inside the enclosure. From here you either use a probed thermometer or a IR gun to measure the temperature of your hot spot.



Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2

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## martin82531

Also, when you do measure the temperature of your hot spot do it directly above the UTH on the inside of the enclosure, don't measure the temperature at the substrate level as snakes like to burrow.

Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2

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## yellowbelly76

> WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG
> 
> You never want the probe inside the tank, the snake can either dislodge the placement of the probe, water can spill on it or the snake can pee on it. If any of these things happen and they will, your UTH will spike in temperature causing serious injury to your snake. 
> 
> The probe ALWAYS goes on the outside of the tank, the temperature will be set slightly higher than the desired temperature you want to achieve inside the enclosure. From here you either use a probed thermometer or a IR gun to measure the temperature of your hot spot.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2



How would u recommend I protect the probe? I want to be able to use the same thermostat/probe when I move the snake to a larger tank. Therefore, I need to be able to remove it from the current tank. If the probe is between the UTH and the tank, it will be glued in place by the UTH. Currently, the probe is hanging over the "hot spot" and is only getting a reading of 86 degrees. The temp between the carpet and glass is at 83, using a digital thermo with a probe between the glass and carpet. The cool side is reading 77.4 with a combo digital termo/hygro suspended above the floor of the tank.

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## yellowbelly76

> Also, when you do measure the temperature of your hot spot do it directly above the UTH on the inside of the enclosure, don't measure the temperature at the substrate level as snakes like to burrow.
> 
> Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2



Burrowing won't be an issue right now, as I am using carpet. If carpet turns out to be too big of a pain, or highly recommended against, then I'll switch to aspen. If I do switch, I'll keep that in mind. Again, how hot is too hot for the floor temp?

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## martin82531

> Burrowing won't be an issue right now, as I am using carpet. If carpet turns out to be too big of a pain, or highly recommended against, then I'll switch to aspen. If I do switch, I'll keep that in mind. Again, how hot is too hot for the floor temp?


You want your hot spot at 90°. I have never used carpet myself but have heard they can have mold and mildew issues.

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## martin82531

Again make sure the probe goes on the outside, I would't use hot glue as the only adhesive to keep a probe in place, so much can go bad if it falls off. I would use foil tape, I have included a link below to where it can be purchased. I'm currently using flexwat but I was previously using Zoo Med UTH's, during that time I was using the below duck tape to adhere it to a glass enclosure, I was very generous when applying it, never once had an issue, the temp rating for duck tape is 120 degrees.

http://www.reptilebasics.com/aluminum-foil-tape

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/...x#.UL_JTYPonng

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## yellowbelly76

> Again make sure the probe goes on the outside, I would't use hot glue as the only adhesive to keep a probe in place, so much can go bad if it falls off. I would use foil tape, I have included a link below to where it can be purchased. I'm currently using flexwat but I was previously using Zoo Med UTH's, during that time I was using the below duck tape to adhere it to a glass enclosure, I was very generous when applying it, never once had an issue, the temp rating for duck tape is 120 degrees.
> 
> http://www.reptilebasics.com/aluminum-foil-tape
> 
> http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/...x#.UL_JTYPonng



Hot glue wasn't the issue. The UTH is self-adhesive...peel off the paper, and the glue is there to adhere to the underside of the tank. If the probe is between there, how hard will it be to get out? Plus, how much glue residue will be left on the probe? That is what my concern is.

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## martin82531

> Hot glue wasn't the issue. The UTH is self-adhesive...peel off the paper, and the glue is there to adhere to the underside of the tank. If the probe is between there, how hard will it be to get out? Plus, how much glue residue will be left on the probe? That is what my concern is.


I would then tape the probe to the outside of the UTH.....It would be your probe, UTH then the bottom of the tank.  From here use a probed thermometer like the one below to measure the temps on the inside.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...duct_id=896347

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## martin82531

I also heard of this but it was to late when I had the adhesive UTH's. Take the adhesive side and stick it to tin foil then use tape to adhere the UTH to the tank. This method would also allow you put the probe between the UTH and the cage. The reason for sticking it to tin foil is it allows you to easily remove the UTH and use it again in the future.

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## yellowbelly76

> I would then tape the probe to the outside of the UTH.....It would be your probe, UTH then the bottom of the tank.  From here use a probed thermometer like the one below to measure the temps on the inside.
> 
> http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...duct_id=896347



I have a probe thermo already, although not that brand. It is currently between the carpet and the glass inside the tank. Is that ok, or do you feel that is bad, much like have the stat probe on the inside? I have a probe thermometer and a probe combo thermometer/hygrometer. The combo is on the cool side, in the air to get the ambient temp/humidity of the tank. I just want to make sure the hot side is warm enough. Currently getting 86 degrees in the air, below the red lamp, and 83.7 between the glass and carpet.

also, I'll keep in mind your thought on carpet...def don't want mold/mildew in the tank.

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## yellowbelly76

> I also heard of this but it was to late when I had the adhesive UTH's. Take the adhesive side and stick it to tin foil then use tape to adhere the UTH to the tank. This method would also allow you put the probe between the UTH and the cage. The reason for sticking it to tin foil is it allows you to easily remove the UTH and use it again in the future.
> 
> Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2



That's an interesting idea...wouldn't have thought of that. It still allowed the heat to transfer to the tank without any problems?

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## martin82531

> I have a probe thermo already, although not that brand. It is currently between the carpet and the glass inside the tank. Is that ok, or do you feel that is bad, much like have the stat probe on the inside? I have a probe thermometer and a probe combo thermometer/hygrometer. The combo is on the cool side, in the air to get the ambient temp/humidity of the tank. I just want to make sure the hot side is warm enough. Currently getting 86 degrees in the air, below the red lamp, and 83.7 between the glass and carpet.
> 
> also, I'll keep in mind your thought on carpet...def don't want mold/mildew in the tank.


The placement of the probed thermometer here is fine, the only probe you don't want on the inside is the probe from the thermostat. Just make sure the probe from the thermometer is sitting directly above your UTH. Your temps seem fine except your surface hot spot where the UTH is, you want this temp around 90-92 degrees. 

If you have difficulties maintaining humidity levels, once you get the hot spot up to 90-92, and keep your ambient temps around 77-85 degrees you may find it useful not use the red lamp if you can keep the other temps stable as lamps seem to lower your humidity levels.

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## martin82531

> That's an interesting idea...wouldn't have thought of that. It still allowed the heat to transfer to the tank without any problems?


I can't give a scientific answer to this question but I don't see why would have any issues.

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## yellowbelly76

> The placement of the probed thermometer here is fine, the only probe you don't want on the inside is the probe from the thermostat. Just make sure the probe from the thermometer is sitting directly above your UTH. Your temps seem fine except your surface hot spot where the UTH is, you want this temp around 90-92 degrees. 
> 
> If you have difficulties maintaining humidity levels, once you get the hot spot up to 90-92, and keep your ambient temps around 77-85 degrees you may find it useful not use the red lamp if you can keep the other temps stable as lamps seem to lower your humidity levels.



So, the 90-92 degree hotspot can be belly heat alone...the don't need basking heat from above? Don't have the UTH yet...ordered the wrong size, but going to pick a proper sized one today. Def having problems with humidity. Got a piece of acrylic to cove part of the top, but I need to get it cut to size. I hoped that would help with the humidity issue.

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## RoseyReps

I have covered a few uths with aluminum tape on the adhesive side, have yet to have any problem with heat transfer. It is nice because you can remove the uth without fear of ruining it, and the tstat probe stays nice and secure and gives more accurate readings. I secure the probe to my uth using a small piece of aluminum tape on the cord (not on the probe itself) and then secure the uth to the glass with more aluminum tape. 

You don't want readings of above 94° anywhere in the tank. 89-90 is the optimal hotside temps. 

The carpet can be burrowed under aswell. You would be surprised at how an animal with no legs can lift things to get under them. If / when you switch to a loose substrate, make sure the substrate is only around 1/2 on the hotside.

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## martin82531

> So, the 90-92 degree hotspot can be belly heat alone...the don't need basking heat from above? Don't have the UTH yet...ordered the wrong size, but going to pick a proper sized one today. Def having problems with humidity. Got a piece of acrylic to cove part of the top, but I need to get it cut to size. I hoped that would help with the humidity issue.


Correct they do not need a basking heat from above. Lamps are typically used to raise ambient temps, the downside is they tend to kill your humidity.

These are the ranges you want to shoot for:

77-81 cool side surface
89-92ºF Warm side surface (were the UTH sits)
77-85º ambient air temps

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...1-Temperatures

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## RoseyReps

> So, the 90-92 degree hotspot can be belly heat alone...the don't need basking heat from above? Don't have the UTH yet...ordered the wrong size, but going to pick a proper sized one today. Def having problems with humidity. Got a piece of acrylic to cove part of the top, but I need to get it cut to size. I hoped that would help with the humidity issue.


Ball pythons are nocturnal, so belly heat is preferred over basking. In my glass tank I use an uth and red heat light on a dimmer to achieve the temps. Heat lights suck the humidity out very quickly, so I only use it when I need to boost ambient temps a few degrees.

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## SquamishSerpents

Two things I would like to add as a CON for overhead lamps:

1) the lamp itself is cheap, the bulbs can be very expensive, and do not last very long. They are very sensitive to ANY sort of knocks or bumps. The filaments go very easily, and it can cost $20 or so to replace the bulbs (where I live at least)

2) I would absolutely not recommend using them in a household with small children, or cat(s). If a child yanks on the cord by accident and knocks the lamp over, or if a cat knocks the lamp over on to a carpet, you will have a fire, and QUICKLY.

But a very good, informative write-up. I will for sure be sending future customers to this thread so they can make the decision for themselves!

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## The Serpent Merchant

> Two things I would like to add as a CON for overhead lamps:
> 
> 1) the lamp itself is cheap, the bulbs can be very expensive, and do not last very long. They are very sensitive to ANY sort of knocks or bumps. The filaments go very easily, and it can cost $20 or so to replace the bulbs (where I live at least)
> 
> 2) I would absolutely not recommend using them in a household with small children, or cat(s). If a child yanks on the cord by accident and knocks the lamp over, or if a cat knocks the lamp over on to a carpet, you will have a fire, and QUICKLY.
> 
> But a very good, informative write-up. I will for sure be sending future customers to this thread so they can make the decision for themselves!


$20 for a single bulb? That's crazy. where I live the bulbs cost $9-$15 max

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## yellowbelly76

> Correct they do not need a basking heat from above. Lamps are typically used to raise ambient temps, the downside is they tend to kill your humidity.
> 
> These are the ranges you want to shoot for:
> 
> 77-81 cool side surface
> 89-92ºF Warm side surface (were the UTH sits)
> 77-85º ambient air temps
> 
> http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...1-Temperatures


Alright, so I have my UTH in place. I have a HydroFarm brand stat, set at 92. I put one thermometer probe between the carpet and the glass, right above the UTH, and it is reading 91 (although fluctuating between 90-91 with the UTH going on and off). Then there is the probe for the combo thermometer/thermostat about mid-way up the side of the tank on the cool side. That is currently reading 77.5, with 40%. This is all with a 75watt red heat lamp on, over the middle of the hot-spot and middle of the tank. I also have the sheet of acrylic covering half of the tank, over the cool side. I am pretty sure that the humidity is down because of the lamp, but if I turn it off, the cool side temps drop. I really want to get this right, and I have had him for a week. Any advice on what I can attempt in order to get the situation right? Maybe raise the temp on the stat, or use a larger water bowl? 

Plan on giving his first meal tomorrow, although I have to still figure out the right size rodent.

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## martin82531

> Alright, so I have my UTH in place. I have a HydroFarm brand stat, set at 92. I put one thermometer probe between the carpet and the glass, right above the UTH, and it is reading 91 (although fluctuating between 90-91 with the UTH going on and off). Then there is the probe for the combo thermometer/thermostat about mid-way up the side of the tank on the cool side. That is currently reading 77.5, with 40%. This is all with a 75watt red heat lamp on, over the middle of the hot-spot and middle of the tank. I also have the sheet of acrylic covering half of the tank, over the cool side. I am pretty sure that the humidity is down because of the lamp, but if I turn it off, the cool side temps drop. I really want to get this right, and I have had him for a week. Any advice on what I can attempt in order to get the situation right? Maybe raise the temp on the stat, or use a larger water bowl? 
> 
> Plan on giving his first meal tomorrow, although I have to still figure out the right size rodent.


Sorry if I mis-read but it sounds like the probe you have from the hydrofram is inside the enclosure?  This is the probe you want on the outside attached to your UTH. The probe from the thermometer is the one that goes on the inside above your UTH to give you a temperture reading on your hot spot.

A dimmer might be useful as well so you lamp is not running on full blast, something like this. http://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-Deluxe.../dp/B000FTEQCY

In terms of rodent size most seem to recomend 10%-15% of your ball pythons weight. A good kitchen scale comes in handy here, so you can weigh your ball and have a good idea of what size prey it should be eating. I like this scale, should be the only one you will ever need.

http://www.reptilebasics.com/my-weigh-7001dx

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## yellowbelly76

> Sorry if I mis-read but it sounds like the probe you have from the hydrofram is inside the enclosure?  This is the probe you want on the outside attached to your UTH. The probe from the thermometer is the one that goes on the inside above your UTH to give you a temperture reading on your hot spot.
> 
> A dimmer might be useful as well so you lamp is not running on full blast, something like this. http://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-Deluxe.../dp/B000FTEQCY
> 
> In terms of rodent size most seem to recomend 10%-15% of your ball pythons weight. A good kitchen scale comes in handy here, so you can weigh your ball and have a good idea of what size prey it should be eating. I like this scale, should be the only one you will ever need.
> 
> http://www.reptilebasics.com/my-weigh-7001dx



No, the stat probe is between the glass and UTH, on the outside. The only probes on the inside are for thermometers.hygrometers. Currently have 78.3/41% on the meter/hygro, and 91.2 on the meter between the glass and carpet (above the UTH). 

He is about 18 inches long, and about 70 grams, but that is using an old, beat up scale, and may not be accurate.

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## martin82531

> No, the stat probe is between the glass and UTH, on the outside. The only probes on the inside are for thermometers.hygrometers. Currently have 78.3/41% on the meter/hygro, and 91.2 on the meter between the glass and carpet (above the UTH). 
> 
> He is about 18 inches long, and about 70 grams, but that is using an old, beat up scale, and may not be accurate.


Temps look good, seems like its just going to a battle of the humidity  :Smile: . Humidity you want 50%-60%, 60%-70% during a shed cycle. Sounds like you could feed a rat fuzzie or pup. Another good rule of thumb when feeding is the ball python can handle a rat that is the size of the biggest part of the balls body,

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## yellowbelly76

> Temps look good, seems like its just going to a battle of the humidity . Humidity you want 50%-60%, 60%-70% during a shed cycle. Sounds like you could feed a rat fuzzie or pup. Another good rule of thumb when feeding is the ball python can handle a rat that is the size of the biggest part of the balls body,



The temps seem to be holding, and the humidity is slowly going up, for now (42% currently). Even the "cool side " climbed to 78.4 degrees. I'm nervous about turning the light off over night, concerned that it will get too cool in the tank. However, maybe the UTH will do ok on it's own overnight, I don't know. Any thoughts on that?

I'll look for a rat pup tomorrow. The breeders were feeding live, and I thought that I would stick with that while he's on the younger rodents. I'll try to switch to f/t a little later on, to avoid injuries.

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## yellowbelly76

I want to thank Martin, as well as the other that have responded to me in this post. I realize that I may have repeated questions, but I am new to BP raising, and I want to make sure that I do things right. So again, thank you to everyone!

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## martin82531

> The temps seem to be holding, and the humidity is slowly going up, for now (42% currently). Even the "cool side " climbed to 78.4 degrees. I'm nervous about turning the light off over night, concerned that it will get too cool in the tank. However, maybe the UTH will do ok on it's own overnight, I don't know. Any thoughts on that?
> 
> I'll look for a rat pup tomorrow. The breeders were feeding live, and I thought that I would stick with that while he's on the younger rodents. I'll try to switch to f/t a little later on, to avoid injuries.


Keep in mind the UTH will not do anything for ambient temperatures. Try and avoid a night drop in temperture if you can, you want to try and maintain ambient temps around 77-85 degress. 

One suggestion when feeding live, be on standby with an obect you can stick in th rats mouth incase it gets in a position where it can bite your python. I would recomened something like an unsharped pencil or a pen with the lid on. You don't want anything too pointy or sharp.

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## SquamishSerpents

> $20 for a single bulb? That's crazy. where I live the bulbs cost $9-$15 max


Yeah. We just have a mom & pop type shop that jacks everything up astronomically, and then same with most shops in Vancouver. Vancouver is slightly cheaper, but still very very expensive for pet-specific supplies. I went to a pet store in the "yuppy" part of Van and there was a tiny block of sphagnum moss for $14!!

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## yellowbelly76

> Keep in mind the UTH will not do anything for ambient temperatures. Try and avoid a night drop in temperture if you can, you want to try and maintain ambient temps around 77-85 degress. 
> 
> One suggestion when feeding live, be on standby with an obect you can stick in th rats mouth incase it gets in a position where it can bite your python. I would recomened something like an unsharped pencil or a pen with the lid on. You don't want anything too pointy or sharp.



I keep that feeding advice in mind, thank you. Regarding the UTH, how well does the heat penetrate through substrate? Before I went to bed, I misted the tank. The humidity went up to 77%, and when I came downstairs in the morning, it was back down to 40%. So, I am thinking about changing substrate to something that would hold moisture better, but wondered about the heat coming through it (was thinking about repti-bark). Also, at 91-92 degrees between the glass and carpet inside the tank, is there risk of burns to the snake if he burrows under loose substrate?

- - - Updated - - -




> Yeah. We just have a mom & pop type shop that jacks everything up astronomically, and then same with most shops in Vancouver. Vancouver is slightly cheaper, but still very very expensive for pet-specific supplies. I went to a pet store in the "yuppy" part of Van and there was a tiny block of sphagnum moss for $14!!



Have you tried ordering bulbs online? It has to be cheaper, even with shipping.

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## martin82531

> I keep that feeding advice in mind, thank you. Regarding the UTH, how well does the heat penetrate through substrate? Before I went to bed, I misted the tank. The humidity went up to 77%, and when I came downstairs in the morning, it was back down to 40%. So, I am thinking about changing substrate to something that would hold moisture better, but wondered about the heat coming through it (was thinking about repti-bark). Also, at 91-92 degrees between the glass and carpet inside the tank, is there risk of burns to the snake if he burrows under loose substrate?


Yes there is a risk of burn if your python burrows, but not at those temps, just make sure you measure the temps below the substrate level and keep the substrate to 1/2 inch thick and the heat coming through the substrate shouldn't be an issue. 

I never had the chance to use repti-bark, but cypress mulch seems to be a good substrate that helps with humidity, I liked Forest Floor from Zoo Med. If you get anything that is not made for reptiles specifically, make sure it doesn't have pine as pine is bad for pythons, it maybe bad for other herps as well.


Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2

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## satomi325

> I keep that feeding advice in mind, thank you. Regarding the UTH, how well does the heat penetrate through substrate? Before I went to bed, I misted the tank. The humidity went up to 77%, and when I came downstairs in the morning, it was back down to 40%. So, I am thinking about changing substrate to something that would hold moisture better, but wondered about the heat coming through it (was thinking about repti-bark). Also, at 91-92 degrees between the glass and carpet inside the tank, is there risk of burns to the snake if he burrows under loose substrate?
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you tried ordering bulbs online? It has to be cheaper, even with shipping.



If you're measuring temps at the bottom of the glass where the temps are hottest and they read under 95 (preferably under 93 to give yourself some accuracy leeway), then your snake will not get burned. Just make sure you're measuring the hottest part of the enclosure and not the surface temp.

And cypress mulch and coco husk are great for retaining humidity.  Sorry if you already mentioned it, but have you tried any other tricks? (Damp towel, tin foil,  or plexiglass over 90% of the screen lid) 

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

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## yellowbelly76

> Yes there is a risk of burn if your python burrows, but not at those temps, just make sure you measure the temps below the substrate level and keep the substrate to 1/2 inch thick and the heat coming through the substrate shouldn't be an issue. 
> 
> I never had the chance to use repti-bark, but cypress mulch seems to be a good substrate that helps with humidity, I liked Forest Floor from Zoo Med. If you get anything that is not made for reptiles specifically, make sure it doesn't have pine as pine is bad for pythons, it maybe bad for other herps as well.
> 
> 
> Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2



I'll make sure to stay away from pine and cedar, as I have seen the warnings about those. How well will the heat from the UTH move through the substrate, to warm the area for the snake when in the hide that sits over that spot?

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## yellowbelly76

> If you're measuring temps at the bottom of the glass where the temps are hottest and they read under 95 (preferably under 93 to give yourself some accuracy leeway), then your snake will not get burned. Just make sure you're measuring the hottest part of the enclosure and not the surface temp.
> 
> And cypress mulch and coco husk are great for retaining humidity.  Sorry if you already mentioned it, but have you tried any other tricks? (Damp towel, tin foil,  or plexiglass over 90% of the screen lid) 
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


Thanks for the reassurance regarding burns. I would hate to harm my little guy. I have tried the damp towel, but it seems to dry out pretty quickly. Didn't do foil, although I may try that over the spot that is not covered by plexiglass (plexiglass only covers a little more that half the tank. I had it cut to cover it all, but the lamp got the plexiglass so hot that I was concerned about other problems, so I had it cut down. With the lamp running, I am able to get the cool side of the tank to 78.6, and the hot side is at 91.8 between the substrate and glass.

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## yellowbelly76

> Temps look good, seems like its just going to a battle of the humidity . Humidity you want 50%-60%, 60%-70% during a shed cycle. Sounds like you could feed a rat fuzzie or pup. Another good rule of thumb when feeding is the ball python can handle a rat that is the size of the biggest part of the balls body,



Well, the place I went to for food only had adult rats, of various sizes. Decided to get a hopper this time around, and if it goes well, I'll look for a place where I might be able to get rat pups.

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## yellowbelly76

> Well, the place I went to for food only had adult rats, of various sizes. Decided to get a hopper this time around, and if it goes well, I'll look for a place where I might be able to get rat pups.



Thus far, my first feeding has been a failure. The BP doesn't appear to be the slightest bit interested in the hopper. Maybe it is due to the fact that the mouse was almost dead when we decided to do the feeding, and therefore wasn't very appealing. I was surprised that the mouse only lasted a few hours in the box from the store...I had expected it to live long enough to get to the feeding. I have left the snake alone, with the mouse, in his feeding bin to see if he takes it without any disturbances. If not, I guess I'll try again next week.

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## jkcerda

Thermometer model please 



> Ok, so I post this information on a daily basis here on BP.net so I decided to make a write up for future reference.
> 
> The most important aspect of keeping reptiles in captivity is providing the proper temperatures/humidity to simulate the reptiles natural environment. 
> 
> There are a few options available today to provide heat for your reptile. All have their advantages and disadvantages. I'm going to go over the most popular heat sources in the reptile industry: Heat lamps, Ceramic heat emitters, Under Tank Heaters/flexwatt, and Radiant Heat Panels
> 
> *The heat lamp:*
> 
> The simplest of all heat sources, these are incandescent light bulbs that project heat downward  warming everything in the cage (including the air!)
> ...

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## Eric Alan

> Thermometer model please


It's an AcuRite 00891W3.  :Good Job:

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jkcerda (12-22-2015)

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## jkcerda

> It's an AcuRite 00891W3.


Found it,  it's $53. Not $12.  Still thanks.

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## Eric Alan

> Found it,  it's $53. Not $12.  Still thanks.


It's $12.99 directly from the manufacturer. The equally as popular AcuRite 00891A1 is $12.23 on Amazon Prime.

Where are you seeing $53?!?!

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## jkcerda

> It's $12.99 directly from the manufacturer. The equally as popular AcuRite 00891A1 is $12.23 on Amazon Prime.
> 
> Where are you seeing $53?!?!


Sweet.  Walmart price http://www.walmart.com/ip/Acu-Rite-I...ingMethod=p13n

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## Eric Alan

> Sweet.  Walmart price http://www.walmart.com/ip/Acu-Rite-I...ingMethod=p13n


The Walmart in-store price is  $12.24. The outlandish price is from Wayfair.com...

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## jkcerda

> The Walmart in-store price is  $12.24. The outlandish price is from Wayfair.com...


Searched high & low at Walmart today. I did not see it , I'll check another walmart

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## jkcerda

AcuRite 00891A1. Is not popping up on the Walmart app.

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## Eric Alan

> AcuRite 00891A1. Is not popping up on the Walmart app.


Just search for AcuRite and find one that looks close. They're pretty much the same as long as it's got a probe  :Smile:

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jkcerda (12-22-2015)

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## jkcerda

> Just search for AcuRite and find one that looks close. They're pretty much the same as long as it's got a probe


Found a couple but the probe is only 10". I'll check another Walmart or just get the one from Amazon  :Good Job:

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_Eric Alan_ (12-22-2015)

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## PitOnTheProwl

Walmarts site is a joke. 
Its faster to just go to the store and look now.

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_Eric Alan_ (12-22-2015)

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## distaff

I ordered one from Amazon that is supposed to arrive today.  It was $10 or $13 with a probe and extra battery (I hope the extra battery will fit and fix the more expensive VE thermometer which hasn't ever worked properly).  These aren't that hard to find. Aquaponics suppliers also sell various models.

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## jkcerda

> Walmarts site is a joke. 
> Its faster to just go to the store and look now.


NO luck at tow walmarts. going to order online :Taz:

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## jkcerda

Walmart does not carry them, Lowes/Home depot are online only.

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## PitOnTheProwl

The Walmart I use here in SATX does.

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## HellsAekel

Hi Serpent Merchant and everybody else.  Thank you for this awesome thread and all of the info on it!

I was going to go for an AP T8 but the wait times are really long and someone is going to donate a 20 Gallon Long to me.  (Serpent Merchant) mentioned that RHP's so not work well with glass tanks.

Are you just referring to challenge of mounting them or do they actually not function well?  I was going to use one in the glass tank that is going to be donated to me since I figured it would be a safer more reliable heat source (my room can get cold) and it would impact the humidity less than a CHE or heat bulb.

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## Stewart_Reptiles

> Hi Serpent Merchant and everybody else.  Thank you for this awesome thread and all of the info on it!
> 
> I was going to go for an AP T8 but the wait times are really long and someone is going to donate a 20 Gallon Long to me.  (Serpent Merchant) mentioned that RHP's so not work well with glass tanks.
> 
> Are you just referring to challenge of mounting them or do they actually not function well?  I was going to use one in the glass tank that is going to be donated to me since I figured it would be a safer more reliable heat source (my room can get cold) and it would impact the humidity less than a CHE or heat bulb.


The thread is 4 years old and the OP's last post was on 02-13-2015, you might be better off creating your own thread to get answers to your question.  :Good Job:

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## HellsAekel

Lol, good to know!  Still kinda new to forums, thanks for the help!

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