# Colubrids > Hognose >  Hognoses compared to Ball Pythons?

## MissterDog

More of a curiosity question but how difficult are western hognoses in comparison? I've been interested in hognoses and have them under my "someday/maybe future consideration snake" list but I've often heard they can be difficult eaters, sometimes almost more than bps?

If I were to ever want one, what would be the key things to keep in mind about their husbandry that is often overlooked? Or what big differences in expectations are there compared to ball python keeping?

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## piedlover79

My hognose has never given me a lick of trouble unlike my male ball python that goes off feed *constantly*.  Although I have heard male hognose can be picky, I've also heard that the female ones eat like trashcans.  They are also much much larger so if they do go off feed a bit you don't have to worry as much.  So for ease of care I'd say female hognose is easier than a ball python.   :Smile:

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_MissterDog_ (03-04-2018)

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## Stewart_Reptiles

If kept right they are pretty easy, and the best part is that they are inquisitive, have a great personality and are not prone to stress.

If you get a pet I recommend a female, males tend to be a little more difficult at times when it comes to food, females on the other end they will eat anything anytime.

Of course keep in mind that they are rear fanged venomous snakes and even if the venom is weak and the delivery system is poor reaction may vary. The good news they are not prone to bite (I am a bit magnet and this is the only species that never bit me)

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_Jus1More_ (03-05-2018),_MissterDog_ (03-05-2018),silverdreams (03-07-2018),Zincubus (03-05-2018)

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## artgecko

I had one male for a little over a year.  I just couldn't get him to eat consistently... He ate fine for me (unscented f/t pinkys) then decided to not eat for ~3 months... After that, would eat sporadically and fast in between.  I ended up rehoming him to someone that could breed live mice for him, which he would actually eat more readily than f/t.  

I'd say, if you are getting one, as was said above, go with a female.  Also, I'd go with an established female that has been feeding well on f/t unscented prey items.  My guy was little and had fed for the breeder before on f/t unscented, but I feel he wasn't really well established when I got him.  Care is similar to other colubrids, although I think some people keep their hot spot warmer for them (I think I remember an interview I saw with the guy that owns extreme hogs saying that).  

They def. have good personalities and are great looking snakes.  I'd consider getting another in the future, but would only get a female due to the feeding issues I had with my male.

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_MissterDog_ (03-05-2018)

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## Craiga 01453

As far as ease of keeping hognose vs BPs is concerned,  if you can keep a BP you can keep a hognose with no problem.

My boy is doing great for me and has been easy from the start. I followed Deborah's advice on fixing his husbandry and he's been thriving since. 

I've had him just under a year now and he's only refused food for one 3 week stretch aside from refusing while in shed. 

He handles super is, has a fun, inquisitive personality and is all around an awesome snake.

If you go for it, I agree with the others and say go with an established female. At least for your first hognose, take the chances of a stubborn male off the table and enjoy your new pet.

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_Jus1More_ (03-05-2018),_MissterDog_ (03-05-2018),_tttaylorrr_ (03-05-2018)

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## Valyrian

Hogs are mildly venomous so whilst a bite probably won't kill you it may not be very nice.

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_MissterDog_ (03-05-2018),silverdreams (03-07-2018)

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## MissterDog

Hey thanks for the feedback everyone this is great info to know! I didn't realize females were easier eaters! I was originally considering a male due to size but now I'm definitely thinking female. Thank you everyone who chimed in about that! Especially glad you joined in Deborah!




> I'd say, if you are getting one, as was said above, go with a female. Also, I'd go with an established female that has been feeding well on f/t unscented prey items. My guy was little and had fed for the breeder before on f/t unscented, but I feel he wasn't really well established when I got him .




I've been hearing about scenting and admit I'm unsure what this refers to. I'm guessing it's mixing smells with the prey item to entice a hoggie? To the point a hoggie might not eat anything unless it has a specific scent? Either way I'm taking a big note on that and hoping I can get a hold of an established eater on unscented f/t prey. Hoping breeders having their hogs on scented prey isn't common.




> Hogs are mildly venomous so whilst a bite probably won't kill you it may not be very nice.







> Of course keep in mind that they are rear fanged venomous snakes and even if the venom is weak and the delivery system is poor reaction may vary. The good news they are not prone to bite (I am a bit magnet and this is the only species that never bit me)




I've been hearing about that and often heard reactions compared to bee sting or bad allergy reaction. Would you say that's accurate? Nothing fatal just super unpleasant? Hopefully I won't be one of the unlucky ones to have a severe reaction aha. If the off chance I do get bit and start to swell, what recommended actions should I take? Will swelling die down in its own or would I need to treat myself somehow?

I concern I did have is their low humidity requirements. I noticed where I live, especially in rainy seasons humidity indoors will sometimes be as high at 40-50%. In seasonal situations like that are there methods to safely reduce humidity? Would having dedicated fans running help?

It's going to be a few good years until I may get a hognose, but figured it would be a good idea consider potential troubleshooting or difficulties I may bump into. Plus I enjoy learning about things early :p

That being said, I'm new to morphs. Are there any red colored ones? I've seen albinos but wondering if there are any others.

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## Stewart_Reptiles

> Hoping breeders having their hogs on scented prey isn't common.


It actually is because when you breed you will always have a percentage that will need to be getting started on scented scented (it would be the step before having to assist which is very tricky with a 5 grams animal)

The key is to buy an well established animal sadly many breeders are in a rush to move animals soon as they hatch with hogs I consider my animals truly switched and established once they have ate 10 F/T unscented pink, seems like lot but buying an animal that ate 2 or 3 unscented or 2 or 3 F/T could mean trouble for a new buyer (scenting can be tricky and finding F/T pinkies close to  impossible)





> I've been hearing about that and often heard reactions compared to bee sting or bad allergy reaction. Would you say that's accurate? Nothing fatal just super unpleasant? Hopefully I won't be one of the unlucky ones to have a severe reaction aha. If the off chance I do get bit and start to swell, what recommended actions should I take? Will swelling die down in its own or would I need to treat myself somehow?


That is what I have heard and read, never experienced it for myself.

The worse I have seen it was this http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/heter...bate-over.html, sadly the picture are no longer up but the swelling was all the way up to the elbow, most other cases that I have seen was swelling of the finger and hand.




> I concern I did have is their low humidity requirements. I noticed where I live, especially in rainy seasons humidity indoors will sometimes be as high at 40-50%. In seasonal situations like that are there methods to safely reduce humidity? Would having dedicated fans running help?


So long it's about 40% you are good, using a substrate that is dry coco coir (like reptile prime) or aspen will help so will having a small water dish (versus big one) and after that it's air flow. I live in the south so humidity during the summer is high and my animal do just fine.




> That being said, I'm new to morphs. Are there any red colored ones? I've seen albinos but wondering if there are any others.


Yes there are reds those are line bred trait you have Red, Extreme Red and Purple Line 

After that you have

Some recessive like

Albino
Axanthic
Pink Pastel
Toffee
Lavender.................

Co-Dom

Conda
Artic......

Here are a few sources http://www.extremehogs.com/Morphs.html , https://www.facebook.com/hognosemorphs/?hc_location=ufi and a great book https://www.amazon.com/Designer-Morp.../dp/B008B8DGHM

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_Jus1More_ (03-05-2018),_MissterDog_ (03-05-2018)

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## Zincubus

> Hey thanks for the feedback everyone this is great info to know! I didn't realize females were easier eaters! I was originally considering a male due to size but now I'm definitely thinking female. Thank you everyone who chimed in about that! Especially glad you joined in Deborah!
> 
> 
> 
> I've been hearing about scenting and admit I'm unsure what this refers to. I'm guessing it's mixing smells with the prey item to entice a hoggie? To the point a hoggie might not eat anything unless it has a specific scent? Either way I'm taking a big note on that and hoping I can get a hold of an established eater on unscented f/t prey. Hoping breeders having their hogs on scented prey isn't common.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I wasn't going to mention this but because you specifically asked ...

As regards Hoggie bites ..  a photo tells a better story ..this is a genuine case of someone I know off another forum .
He had a very bad reaction and spent some time in hospital ..

Bit his finger but the swelling initially went past his elbow ..






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_Jus1More_ (03-05-2018),_MissterDog_ (03-05-2018),silverdreams (03-07-2018),Valyrian (03-05-2018)

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## MissterDog

> I wasn't going to mention this but because you specifically asked ...
> 
> As regards Hoggie bites ..  a photo tells a better story ..this is a genuine case of someone I know off another forum .
> He had a very bad reaction and spent some time in hospital ..
> 
> Bit his finger but the swelling initially went past his elbow ..
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro



Thanks for sharing Zinc! I prefer to be well aware of the bad and ugly as well as the good. Do you know how long they were in the hospital for and what treatment they got? How long was it before the swelling went down or until a full recovery was considered? Do you know if the bite was from a feeding response?

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## MissterDog

> It actually is because when you breed you will always have a percentage that will need to be getting started on scented scented (it would be the step before having to assist which is very tricky with a 5 grams animal)
> 
> The key is to buy an well established animal sadly many breeders are in a rush to move animals soon as they hatch with hogs I consider my animals truly switched and established once they have ate 10 F/T unscented pink, seems like lot but buying an animal that ate 2 or 3 unscented or 2 or 3 F/T could mean trouble for a new buyer (scenting can be tricky and finding F/T pinkies close to  impossible)
> 
> 
> That is what I have heard and read, never experienced it for myself.
> 
> The worse I have seen it was this http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/heter...bate-over.html, sadly the picture are no longer up but the swelling was all the way up to the elbow, most other cases that I have seen was swelling of the finger and hand.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your input Deborah! 


I'm hoping from what I read in that thread and Zinc's picture that level of swelling and reaction is considered rare. The thread is at least reassuring to me that the bite was from a feeding response and not a defensive one. So I'm hoping as long as I'm mindful about what foods I've been touching that it will be a non-issue. Have to see how the husband feels about this though :p

As for morphs, I'm definitely LOVING the red and purple lines! Deborah if you by chance breed those morphs I might get hoggie from you!

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Stewart_Reptiles (03-05-2018)

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## Zincubus

> Thanks for sharing Zinc! I prefer to be well aware of the bad and ugly as well as the good. Do you know how long they were in the hospital for and what treatment they got? How long was it before the swelling went down or until a full recovery was considered? Do you know if the bite was from a feeding response?



They do all seem to be feeding responses...


This is all I could find sorry ..

" I have kept and bred western Hognoses, Mexican Hognoses, and barons racers. I have also kept mangroves and false water cobras.
I had a VERY nasty bite from a western hognose resulting in 7 hours in hospital with various tubes in my arms"

image

image

Also this more detailed account .

My hubby got bitten by a Western Hoggy a few years ago, The bite was at 7.30 am he felt little pain, he went to work, by lunch time his hand had swollen up 3 times normal size,and he couldn't bend his fingers due to swelling,At work he was warring fingerless gloves/mits (which contained the swelling , when he returned home from work at 4.30pm he took off the gloves/mits...and the swelling shot up his arm stopping for a while at his elbow....at this point he went to hospital.The swelling lasted from Monday to Thursday with no after affects "

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_MissterDog_ (03-05-2018)

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## Stewart_Reptiles

I think the level of swelling and the reaction one may have will depends on a few things, 1# how long the hog got to chew on the person, remember they are rear fanged venomous and this is a poor delivery system.

2# the person itself, children, elderly and people with weak human system and or allergy history may be more likely to have issues.
Again they are not prone to bite I useally walk by a snake and it wants to bite me, with hognose I never had that issue (7 years and no bite, wish I could say the same with the other species I work with).

I guess one day if I get bit I will have to document it then again there might not be any reaction at all, on the other end my husband is prohibited for handling hognose he has an history of severe allergic reaction to I really do not want to find out what would happen in case one decided to bite him.

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_MissterDog_ (03-05-2018)

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## CoinOperatedGirl

As someone who is allergic to multiple things, I recommend having benedryl on hand. 


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Zincubus (03-06-2018)

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## Prognathodon

Ive been gnawed on by a derpy hoggie that thought my finger was another mouse. She even tried to drag me away!  My reaction was very much like that to a sting from a honeybee (which we used to keep, so I got a couple-few every year) - minor swelling and itching. IIRC I didnt bother looking for Benadryl. 

I think considering how a person reacts to stingy-things is probably a reasonable gauge for estimating possible reaction to hoggie venom.


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Craiga 01453 (03-06-2018),_Jus1More_ (03-06-2018),_MissterDog_ (03-06-2018)

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## MissterDog

> As someone who is allergic to multiple things, I recommend having benedryl on hand. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





> Ive been gnawed on by a derpy hoggie that thought my finger was another mouse. She even tried to drag me away!  My reaction was very much like that to a sting from a honeybee (which we used to keep, so I got a couple-few every year) - minor swelling and itching. IIRC I didnt bother looking for Benadryl. 
> 
> I think considering how a person reacts to stingy-things is probably a reasonable gauge for estimating possible reaction to hoggie venom.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro



Thankfully I have plenty of benedryl and allergy meds on hand! I also have a several allergies, only two being dangerous which are food related. Not sure if the egg and shellfish allergies may be an indication of how I'd react to a hoggie bite, but I'm assuming they are totally separate things. I seem to recall my reaction to bee stings being very mild and just annoying, so I'm hoping that's a good sign lol

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## Zincubus

Just thought you'd find this latest " Hoggie bite " interesting..

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forum...-bad-what.html

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_MissterDog_ (05-02-2018)

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## Alter-Echo

Never been bit by my hoggie, but I had a mangrove snake who nailed me once, my hand blew up and the bite site turned black and blue. Also felt a burning sensation up my arm and numbness in my lips and tongue. All in all, a fun couple of days. 

Glad hognose don't bite defensively the way mangroves do.

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_MissterDog_ (05-02-2018)

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## MissterDog

So I’m still thinking about this lol. I still have another 3-4 years to decide if I’d still like a hognose, but I’m unsure how I feel about their venom. I find myself swinging between “It will be fine” to “no thanks” on a frequent basis.

I’m not actively worried about being bitten and I highly doubt I will, but I feel like I should at least have a plan of attack in case is somehow DOES happen. I have no idea what my reaction or my husband’s would be if I did get bit, and my only worry is if it does get bad enough to warrant a hospital visits like the stories I’ve been reading.

Fellow hognose owners, what do you advise for someone who does get bit? Do you think I personally should get a hognose? As someone who has a history of allergies? I have two food based allergies (shellfish and eggs)that are considered dangerous that I have an epipen for. My symptoms had sometimes lead to swelling and closing of my throat so I’m not sure if that’s an indication of how I’d react to a bite.

p.s @Deborah I’m still looking at you for red and purple line morphs :p

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## Stewart_Reptiles

It's really a tough call I have suffered allergy in the past, mainly pollen and pet dander, seems to be under control and has not bother me for years, now when it comes to be and yellow jacket stings it seems like it never had any effect on me even when stung multiple time in the same area at once.

You can't really ever no how you will react until it actually happens, because you have certain allergies does not mean you would have a reaction and vice versa.

I have owned hognose since 2011 never once got bit and I tend to be a bit magnet does not mean it will never happen but I guess I am willing to take the risk (small risk even when it comes to reactions)

Now if you want something small colorful and with a calm disposition without the risk (granted not as cute) you may want to look into sand boas, there are some very nice mutation, stripes, snow, albino, axanthic, paint etc

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_MissterDog_ (05-19-2018)

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## Valyrian

Get a Burm instead. They're like a ball python scaled up... Go big or go home 

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## MissterDog

> It's really a tough call I have suffered allergy in the past, mainly pollen and pet dander, seems to be under control and has not bother me for years, now when it comes to be and yellow jacket stings it seems like it never had any effect on me even when stung multiple time in the same area at once.
> 
> You can't really ever no how you will react until it actually happens, because you have certain allergies does not mean you would have a reaction and vice versa.
> 
> I have owned hognose since 2011 never once got bit and I tend to be a bit magnet does not mean it will never happen but I guess I am willing to take the risk (small risk even when it comes to reactions)
> 
> Now if you want something small colorful and with a calm disposition without the risk (granted not as cute) you may want to look into sand boas, there are some very nice mutation, stripes, snow, albino, axanthic, paint etc


I admit I'm still torn about hognoses but you had me warm up to kenyan sand boas with your suggestion (and new babies)! After looking into them they've really grown on me, especially the flame and nuclear morphs wow! Most likely I'll end up going with them but darn, the hognoses still tempt me aha! Time will tell I suppose! Thank you for your input!

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## Zincubus

> I admit I'm still torn about hognoses but you had me warm up to kenyan sand boas with your suggestion (and new babies)! After looking into them they've really grown on me, especially the flame and nuclear morphs wow! Most likely I'll end up going with them but darn, the hognoses still tempt me aha! Time will tell I suppose! Thank you for your input!


Hey .. I love the look of Hoggies but like you I'm allergic to eggs and the two most commonly used antibiotics so Hoggies are simply not an option for me ..

That said ... Sand Boas can be as cute as hell , this is mine ..

Also if you like cute and quirky please consider a Rhino nosed Ratsnake who are ridiculously cute yet very friendly and NOT rear fanged ...

Mine is the perfect snake , display qualities, calm and friendly with a good appetite ..


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Craiga 01453 (06-01-2018),_MissterDog_ (06-01-2018),_richardhind1972_ (06-01-2018)

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## MissterDog

Whelp, went to the reptile show this weekend and discovered sand boas don't do it for me. Didn't fall in love the same way I did with other snakes of interest and certainly no where close to how I felt with hognoses. Sand boas are cute but I was very "meh" about them so looks like hognoses are back on the table haha. But who knows 3ish years from now right? (Haha if I last that long) 

 Zinc I was actually considering a rhino rat snake as my display snake, but settled for a russian rat snake instead :p Rhino's are still on my list for possible future snakes though if I ever want another vision snake!

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Zincubus (07-03-2018)

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