# Other Pythons > Blood Pythons >  Dexter Regurgitated Rats Twice This Month

## Aedryan Methyus

So, my 2016 male Matrix Het T+ boy - Dexter had been looking like he was going to explode for about a month leading up until 12/09. He ate on 12/04 and the next day I discovered that he had regurgitated the rat. On 12/09 he finally exploded in his tub. It literally looked like a Saint Bernard took a dump and pee'd in there! lol Prior to that he had defecated on 9/14 and 10/23... He ate again on 12/11 without any problems. This past Monday on 12/18 he ate again and today I discovered that he regurgitated the partially digested rat again. Such a lovely sight and smell!  :Sad:  

All temperatures and humidity levels are perfect... I never handle my snakes on feeding day or for at least 24 - 48 hours after they eat. Other than that I handle them every day/every other day for just a few minutes each. However, right at feeding time on 12/18 I discovered that Dexter had decided to flood his tub with pee. So, I immediately placed him in a fresh clean tub then I fed him. Do you guys have any idea why he would be regurgitating like this all of the sudden?

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## PitOnTheProwl

I would wait 3 to 4 weeks minimum before trying to feed after any regurg.
I would also double check husbandry.

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_AbsoluteApril_ (12-20-2017),_Aedryan Methyus_ (12-20-2017),_Alicia_ (12-21-2017),C.Marie (12-25-2017),_GoingPostal_ (12-23-2017),sugar shane (12-21-2017)

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## Aedryan Methyus

Thanks, Pit! I will give him 3 weeks before feeding him again and see how it goes...

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## cchardwick

I had one of my females regurgitate a rat, I followed up the next day with another and she was OK.  I figured she may have ingested coconut husk substrate along with the rat, it was a regurge probably an hour after feeding.  

I have another ball python I've been struggling with, he is a male Albino Pied.  He regurgitated almost all of his rats in the last couple months.  I'm guessing since it's breeding season he is just getting moved around too much and weekend feedings followed by a breeding rotation is just too much for him.  It's also possible that his double recessive genes are making him susceptible to it as well.  This week I decided to give him an extra day before moving him to a female and I made sure to move him as little as possible when moving to the female tub.  The funny thing is that he regures several days after the feeding so most of the rat is digested.  He seems to be getting a bit weak and thin so I keep feeding him hoping that minimal handling will do the trick.  If he regurges a couple more times I may just take him out of the female rotation for a month or so and not feed him at all for awhile.

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## PitOnTheProwl

> I had one of my females regurgitate a rat, I followed up the next day with another and she was OK.  I figured she may have ingested coconut husk substrate along with the rat, it was a regurge probably an hour after feeding.  
> 
> I have another ball python I've been struggling with, he is a male Albino Pied.  He regurgitated almost all of his rats in the last couple months.  I'm guessing since it's breeding season he is just getting moved around too much and weekend feedings followed by a breeding rotation is just too much for him.  It's also possible that his double recessive genes are making him susceptible to it as well.  This week I decided to give him an extra day before moving him to a female and I made sure to move him as little as possible when moving to the female tub.  The funny thing is that he regures several days after the feeding so most of the rat is digested.  He seems to be getting a bit weak and thin so I keep feeding him hoping that minimal handling will do the trick.  If he regurges a couple more times I may just take him out of the female rotation for a month or so and not feed him at all for awhile.


I cannot believe what I just read?!?!?
Regurgitation is not normal or caused by genetics.
As an ethical breeder you should be more concerned with the health of your animals NOT the potential profit.
HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN TAKEN OUT OF ROTATION AFTER THE FIRST TIME!!!
Wanting to be a new and coming up breeder, actions like these are suicide for your business.
Ethics always comes first.
Your post shines a light you shouldn't have wanted.

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_aahmn_ (12-22-2017),_AbsoluteApril_ (12-20-2017),_Alicia_ (12-21-2017),*bcr229* (12-20-2017),C.Marie (12-25-2017),dr del (12-21-2017),Forgotten (01-27-2018),_GoingPostal_ (12-23-2017),_jmcrook_ (12-20-2017),_MissterDog_ (12-25-2017),Plasma (12-20-2017),Stewart_Reptiles (12-20-2017),sugar shane (12-21-2017),Tessellate (09-10-2018),Timelugia (12-27-2017),_zina10_ (12-22-2017)

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## bcr229

> I have another ball python I've been struggling with, he is a male Albino Pied.  He regurgitated almost all of his rats in the last couple months.  I'm guessing since it's breeding season he is just getting moved around too much and weekend feedings followed by a breeding rotation is just too much for him.  It's also possible that his double recessive genes are making him susceptible to it as well.  This week I decided to give him an extra day before moving him to a female and I made sure to move him as little as possible when moving to the female tub.  The funny thing is that he regures several days after the feeding so most of the rat is digested.  He seems to be getting a bit weak and thin so I keep feeding him hoping that minimal handling will do the trick.  If he regurges a couple more times I may just take him out of the female rotation for a month or so and not feed him at all for awhile.


Dude, this snake needs a vet visit, a month ago.  In the meantime you need to stop breeding everything in case he had something contagious like parasites or crypto that was causing the regurges, you can't risk that being spread around any more than it already may have been.

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_aahmn_ (12-22-2017),_AbsoluteApril_ (12-20-2017),_Alicia_ (12-21-2017),C.Marie (12-25-2017),_GoingPostal_ (12-23-2017),_jmcrook_ (12-20-2017),PitOnTheProwl (12-20-2017)

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## Kara

Since your snake has regurgitated twice in a relatively short period of time, it would be beneficial to give him even longer than 3 weeks before attempting another meal.  Give him a minimum of 4 weeks, and you may even want to consider 6 for a species with such a slow metabolism.   

When you do offer food again, offer prey that is one size smaller than what you usually feed, and supplement with Nutribac ( http://www.mzrproducts.com/) to help re-establish beneficial gut flora. You can also try adding Nutribac to his water, or syringe it to him orally if you're comfortable doing so, during this resting period prior to offering food again.   When a snake regurgitates, it throws positive gut flora out of whack.  When the snake is fed too soon before that bacteria has a chance to repopulate, the snake will be more prone to regurgitation again, and subsequent feeding attempts can easily tip the scales into a negative situation.   

It's an issue that is usually easy to sort out with some time and TLC, but it's also a process that can't be rushed.  Also, not sure whether you are using an ambient-only approach to keeping your bloods/STPs.  If so, you may want to consider adding a moderate basking spot of 86 degrees (F) to give him a little boost in that department as well. 

Good luck - hope it is resolved soon & doesn't progress into a chronic issue.  Regurgitation is not something commonly seen in bloods/STPs, but it can really do a number on them.  :Sad:

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_AbsoluteApril_ (12-20-2017),_Aedryan Methyus_ (12-21-2017),_Alicia_ (12-21-2017),_Booper_ (12-22-2017),C.Marie (12-25-2017),Cornfed_Constrictors (02-23-2018),dr del (12-21-2017),elleon (12-23-2017),_GoingPostal_ (12-23-2017),Stewart_Reptiles (12-20-2017)

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## Aedryan Methyus

> Since your snake has regurgitated twice in a relatively short period of time, it would be beneficial to give him even longer than 3 weeks before attempting another meal.  Give him a minimum of 4 weeks, and you may even want to consider 6 for a species with such a slow metabolism.   
> 
> When you do offer food again, offer prey that is one size smaller than what you usually feed, and supplement with Nutribac ( http://www.mzrproducts.com/) to help re-establish beneficial gut flora. You can also try adding Nutribac to his water, or syringe it to him orally if you're comfortable doing so, during this resting period prior to offering food again.   When a snake regurgitates, it throws positive gut flora out of whack.  When the snake is fed too soon before that bacteria has a chance to repopulate, the snake will be more prone to regurgitation again, and subsequent feeding attempts can easily tip the scales into a negative situation.   
> 
> It's an issue that is usually easy to sort out with some time and TLC, but it's also a process that can't be rushed.  Also, not sure whether you are using an ambient-only approach to keeping your bloods/STPs.  If so, you may want to consider adding a moderate basking spot of 86 degrees (F) to give him a little boost in that department as well. 
> 
> Good luck - hope it is resolved soon & doesn't progress into a chronic issue.  Regurgitation is not something commonly seen in bloods/STPs, but it can really do a number on them.


Thanks for the info. I really appreciate it. A good snake breeder friend of mine here in Pittsburgh also advised me to not feed him for at least 4 weeks, too. So, i'm definitely going to wait at least that long. He also suggested that I replace his water with purple Pedialyte for a few weeks to help him get his flora built back up. Do you guys think that would be alright?

The ambient temperature in my snake room is 75 degrees 24/7 and at the moment the ambient humidity in the room is 52%, but it has been more like 56% for the past week. They all have large water dishes in their tubs as well. All of my Bloods and Short Tails hot spots are reading 85 degrees and 75 degrees on the cool side. If I turn my thermostat up even just one more degree for these guys, most of them head straight to the cool side and plunge into their water dishes. They seem to get all fired up and bitey, too! lol

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## Kara

> Thanks for the info. I really appreciate it. A good snake breeder friend of mine here in Pittsburgh also advised me to not feed him for at least 4 weeks, too. So, i'm definitely going to wait at least that long. He also suggested that I replace his water with purple Pedialyte for a few weeks to help him get his flora built back up. Do you guys think that would be alright?
> 
> The ambient temperature in my snake room is 75 degrees 24/7 and at the moment the ambient humidity in the room is 52%, but it has been more like 56% for the past week. They all have large water dishes in their tubs as well. All of my Bloods and Short Tails hot spots are reading 85 degrees and 75 degrees on the cool side. If I turn my thermostat up even just one more degree for these guys, most of them head straight to the cool side and plunge into their water dishes. They seem to get all fired up and bitey, too! lol


4 weeks minimum and a small meal would be a good starting off point. You can use Pedialyte to help re-hydrate the snake, but keep in mind that it only offers electrolyte support.  While this is beneficial in helping the snake return to sufficient hydration post-regurge, it doesn't directly impact the rebuilding of positive gut flora in the same manner that probiotics (i.e. Nutribac) do.  Both are helpful, but only one provides support where it is needed most.  If you do offer Pedialyte, keep an eye on Dexter's overall condition to ensure he isn't becoming dehydrated by avoiding drinking it.  These snakes can be *exceedingly* picky and stubborn about their water sources, so it's just something else to watch for in the process. 

The purpose of waiting so long to feed again after a regurgitation event is to allow the snake to recover that gut flora, and avoid the eventual "point of no return" if the snake continues to regurgitate. Using probiotics is an additional layer of support in this regard - yes, the snake will likely recover without them given enough time, but if the animal regurgitates again, you're back at square one on a much shorter clock.   :Sad:    When you do feed again, give him a week off from handling.  While 24-48 hours is usually fine, in a case like Dexter's it is helpful to minimize stress as much as possible.  Small meals, minimal handling, 2 weeks between feedings until he has kept at least 4-6 meals down with no issue, and then a return to normal feeding schedule should be okay (knock on wood). 

It sounds like you have an established thermal gradient, although ambient is a bit cooler than what may be optimal on a long-term basis. Bloods & STPs are definitely quirky when it comes to temperature - striking that balance between warm enough & too warm in a situation like this can be tricky. I'm sure you've already double-checked everything with a temp gun, but if not it wouldn't hurt to do so in an effort to rule out reasons why he regurgitated in the first place. 

Again, best of luck in returning him to health. Regurgitations are sucky things, and it is always heartbreaking when a beloved animal isn't at 100%.  Fingers crossed!

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_Aedryan Methyus_ (12-21-2017),_Alicia_ (12-21-2017),PitOnTheProwl (12-21-2017)

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## ckuhn003

> Since your snake has regurgitated twice in a relatively short period of time, it would be beneficial to give him even longer than 3 weeks before attempting another meal.  Give him a minimum of 4 weeks, and you may even want to consider 6 for a species with such a slow metabolism.   
> 
> When you do offer food again, offer prey that is one size smaller than what you usually feed, and supplement with Nutribac ( http://www.mzrproducts.com/) to help re-establish beneficial gut flora. You can also try adding Nutribac to his water, or syringe it to him orally if you're comfortable doing so, during this resting period prior to offering food again.   When a snake regurgitates, it throws positive gut flora out of whack.  When the snake is fed too soon before that bacteria has a chance to repopulate, the snake will be more prone to regurgitation again, and subsequent feeding attempts can easily tip the scales into a negative situation.   
> 
> It's an issue that is usually easy to sort out with some time and TLC, but it's also a process that can't be rushed.  Also, not sure whether you are using an ambient-only approach to keeping your bloods/STPs.  If so, you may want to consider adding a moderate basking spot of 86 degrees (F) to give him a little boost in that department as well. 
> 
> Good luck - hope it is resolved soon & doesn't progress into a chronic issue.  Regurgitation is not something commonly seen in bloods/STPs, but it can really do a number on them.


Great information Kara. How long do you recommend using a product like Nutribac? My BP had some regurgitation issues w/ the introduction of a new prey (rat pup) and I used this product for the next the next two feedings (smaller mice) but I wasn't sure how long to keep using it. Wasn't sure if it was a one time dosage or continual use.

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## Aedryan Methyus

> You mentioned treating his water with Nutribac & I think that's probably spread WAY too thin to help him much.  I'd have added it to food, so you know he 
> really got a meaningful dose.  But since he's been regurgitating solid food, if that was my snake (& I've kept many kinds but not these), I'd give him a modest 
> amount of water-thinned Gerber's chicken babyfood with Nutribac added to it:  it's WAY more digestible than a solid rat for an irritated stomach, & it might help 
> him get both the nutrients & Nutribac he needs to recover.  Tube-feeding* isn't that hard & can be done gently...it's NOT the same thing as "force-feeding" 
> (solid) food, which I'd never do.  (*I'll be happy to offer some tips if you like?)
> 
> Afterthought:  has he been X-rayed? (checked for internal blockages- tumor? -malformed G.I. tract? etc)


My apologies for taking so long to respond. I've been having computer problems... Grrr! Thank you for your insight, though. I really appreciate it. Dexter started refusing to eat frozen/thawed awhile back, so it would be sorta difficult to add the Nutribac to his food. I did give him another small dose of Nutribac mixed with water orally a couple of months ago right after we relieved him of his impacted urates, though. I had the vet give him a 1 gram dose of it orally last winter when I had him there as well. How often would you recommend giving him 1 gram doses (as prescribed on the back of the Nutribac container) and for how long? That's a good idea about the baby food...

He hasn't been x-rayed...

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*Bogertophis* (09-10-2018)

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## Bogertophis

> My apologies for taking so long to respond. I've been having computer problems... Grrr! Thank you for your insight, though. I really appreciate it. Dexter started refusing to eat frozen/thawed awhile back, so it would be sorta difficult to add the Nutribac to his food. I did give him another small dose of Nutribac mixed with water orally a couple of months ago right after we relieved him of his impacted urates, though. I had the vet give him a 1 gram dose of it orally last winter when I had him there as well. How often would you recommend giving him 1 gram doses (as prescribed on the back of the Nutribac container) and for how long? That's a good idea about the baby food...
> 
> He hasn't been x-rayed...


I'd ask your vet about both of those (dosage -and frequency- of Nutribac for his size) and a scan for internal issues.  I think the Nutribac is pretty harmless but doesn't hurt to ask.  You never want to tube-feed too often...it's about keeping their body functioning while they recover, but see how it goes.  It depends on what's wrong, each one is different.

Any meds that can be given with food can be mixed with chicken baby food* & tube-fed using this:  https://beanfarm.com/collections/hea...g-tube-syringe
FYI- that "feeding tube" in reality is a human medical-grade urethral catheter, flexible & PERFECT for this task;  you must NEVER use other plastic tubing (like that sold for aquarium use) because the cut open end will catch & tear up the snake's insides when inserted.  A urethral catheter has a rounded & closed tip...the small openings are on either side just above the end.

*I've used Gerber's Chicken 2nd foods "chicken & gravy" many times over the years to 'turn around' sick or weak snakes; very digestible protein with no sugar & hfcs like most baby foods.  Thin w/ enough water so it flows thru tubing easily (test first, not on snake!) & I usually add a drop of olive oil to make it more 'slippery', also use a drop on outside of tubing.  Encourage snake to drink a bit of water first (to lubricate his throat) but if that fails, you can expel a little baby food mixture as tubing is just at the top of snake's throat to help the tubing slide easier.  Depending on how big the snake is, the tube goes in most of the way-
but slide it in gently and STOP when you meet some resistance, never force beyond that point.  (on a small or "baby" snake, you'd expect to insert the tubing about a fourth to a third of the snake's total length, no further, just for reference.)


This tubing obviously feels weird to the snake so expect some resistance but it's nothing compared to the size of prey they easily swallow.  Before inserting tube, push the plunger on the syringe to expel all air in the tubing, so the mixture is ready to drip out the end.  You don't want to put a big air bubble into a sick snake.  Keep the snake fairly level & as calm as possible, & once you've delivered the food mixture, withdraw the tubing, & keeping the snake's head above his body at all times, return him to his cage to rest.  Don't try to tube-feed too much at once...this is a snack, NOT a meal.  It gets easier with a little practice...& obviously, your snake isn't going to volunteer his open mouth to insert tubing either...just push gently with the tip of the tubing until he opens up.  Gentle restraint...a "give & take" works best on snakes, for anyone who has never done this.  Any questions?  Just ask...

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_Aedryan Methyus_ (09-11-2018)

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