# Ball Pythons > BP Morphs & Genetics >  Banana/Coral Glow

## TessadasExotics

Can you hear it?

All of those Bananas that have been hidden away and bred like crazy are starting to come out of hiding.  Just seen a male for 4500. Guess the real DOWN TO EARTH prices will be coming around real soon. They will be 1200 or less by next year.

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## Tribal

I hope your right because I would love to be able to afford one

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## toyota89

Me to want. Top of my list.

Sent from my Droid RAZR M using Tapatalk 2

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## TheSnakeGeek

what do you expect with a codom morph that has males producing mostly males?

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_satomi325_ (07-19-2013)

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## CD CONSTRICTORS

I was just speaking to two large breeders today about the Banana market. They are holding steady on prices.

Was the $4500 from a large breeder? A 1.0 or 0.1? Male maker or female maker? Important facts as to the price you mention.

Why is this different than any other gene? Price drops are expected. Pinstripes and Spiders are no longer $25K. GHI's were $50K a few years ago.... now $7K. The big breeders are holding steady on prices as the little guys try to make a quick buck. When the little guys dump the few they have then what will be available? Big breeder prices. I highly doubt that a Banana will be $1200 next season.... maybe $2500- $3000.

There are many working with triple gene Banana morphs already that will keep the Banana prices at a relatively stable level. Super Bananas are just around the corner in numbers and will keep the Banana market at more stable levels. People will be vying for the right Banana combinations to make 1.0 Super Bananas.

I have invested in the Banana project at a great point. My 1.0 male maker is setting at over 300g now and should have no problem breeding this fall. He will make my investment back many times over.... and I will not be price dumping.

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_AlexisFitzy_ (10-21-2013),_Jonas@Balls2TheWall_ (07-19-2013),_satomi325_ (07-19-2013),Stewart_Reptiles (07-19-2013)

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## dr del

Yeah?

I'd say it depends on the sex bias thing to be honest.

If that holds true then female maker males might drop a bit but male makers might go up.

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_CD CONSTRICTORS_ (07-19-2013)

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## CD CONSTRICTORS

Male makers are going to be in high demand for a while to come. Mike's video is a great illustration of that. 

It will be nearly impossible to make a 1.0 Super Banana from a 1.0 female maker. The video has some profound thinking as to where the Banana market is heading.... and it is not down the toilet despite what many would hope for.

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## spitzu

I'm looking forward to maybe picking up a female or two next year.  Beautiful morph.

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_zach_24_90_ (07-19-2013)

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## CD CONSTRICTORS

Does not say male maker or not.... I highly doubt he just had his first shed. Speckling like that does not come in till usually the 3rd shed or so. That is one I would steer clear of at any price.

Doesn't quite look the quality of this guy on his 2nd shed.

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## TessadasExotics

The 4500 was a male maker male so I guess that theory is out. They will be 1200 or less by next year. Do you even realize how many bananas are out there? The banana market is on its way down. And faster than what some may want to believe. Don't care which breeders think they are going to hold on to the 10k+ price tag. Not many are going to pay it if they can go get them for 8k+ less. A banana is a banana. Doesnt matter who makes it. Talk to someone like Kevin and see what his thoughts are on the subject. Yes double, tripple, quad, supers and the like will still hold a good Proffitt.  Thats a no brainer as its more than one gene.

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## dr del

See,

This is becoming a problem for me - especially in the U.K.

There are a few people selling male bananas - but not a single one of them is stating if it is a female maker or a male maker.

And they are not selling them cheaply either. I have been assuming they were first gen female makers.

Do you assume they are trying to put one over on people who have not looked into it? Or do you say caveat emptor?

To be fair I have never contacted them and flat out asked which the snakes were. 

Has anyone speculated about the males produced by a female created with a male maker?

Am I totally misunderstanding how this could go in the next few generations?

"These questionsand many otherswill be answered in the next episode of...Soap" ( for the old timers  :Razz:  )

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## JMinILM

> what do you expect with a codom morph that has males producing mostly males?


Yep, simple supply and demand. People buy one male and breed it to 8 to 10 females. Producing 10 to 20 more bananas, so supply is growing incredibly quickly.
From a demand side, all the breeder needs is one male banana, so once they get that, they are no longer in the market for another one. So demand decreases as more people get theirs and then are no longer in the market.

$2000-$2500 next year
$800 - $1000 in 2015

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## TheSnakeGeek

omg the sky is falling! the sky is falling! 10 years from now when the next new investment-worthy inc-dom morph is falling below the $5,000 mark, people will be crying about it and having the exact same discussion we're having now. but life goes on and the hobby is still as alive as ever. (if not more so) there have been so many of these banana crash threads. it wont change anything. play with the cards you're dealt and enjoy the game. if you don't like it, fold your hand and cash out.

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_CD CONSTRICTORS_ (07-19-2013),_JMinILM_ (07-19-2013)

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## JMinILM

> There are many working with triple gene Banana morphs already that will keep the Banana prices at a relatively stable level. Super Bananas are just around the corner in numbers and will keep the Banana market at more stable levels. People will be vying for the right Banana combinations to make 1.0 Super Bananas.


Do any other genes make the banana really look better though? I'm not saying there aren't I just haven't seen many must have combos, which I think will hurt their value long term. Kinda like it has to the champagne.

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## CD CONSTRICTORS

Have you seen Mike's CG Fire Spider?

Banana Pin/Pastel/LemonBlast

Banana Enchi

Banana Mojave

Banana Butter

Banana Sugar/Calico

The list goes on. The surface is just being scratched. Pinstripes may only be $200, but they contribute to many high end morphs as the Banana will for years to come. Same with Enchis... just a few hundred dollars, but their double/triple gene morphs bring pretty good coin.

I have 5- 6 solid females to pair mine with. I think I will do just fine with a touch of luck from the odds gods.

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## TheSnakeGeek

> I have 5- 6 solid females to pair mine with.


and people wonder why the prices on these morphs drop so fast..

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## CD CONSTRICTORS

> Talk to someone like Kevin and see what his thoughts are on the subject.


I did happen to talk to Kevin today by chance. Is he offering to sell you one for $4500.... great deal if he is.

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## CD CONSTRICTORS

> and people wonder why the prices on these morphs drop so fast..


So you would buy a high end male and pair it with one female?

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_Mike41793_ (07-19-2013)

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## Jonas@Balls2TheWall

Dr. Del

The "male maker "or "female maker" is a very important tid bit and should be stated in sale threads IMO. It has an impact on the price of the animal for as long as its being sold for investment purposes. So far we are still learning about the gene but our male maker has thrown roughly 92% males. Every one of those males should produce the same percentage of males. Thats one of the questions I would ask when buying and I would prefer to buy from someone who has produced enough of them to be sure of what he/she is selling you. That being said I doubt many people are producing females and those who are are probably holding them back (at least I would). Similar to buying heterozygous animals, bananas should be bought from a reputable breeder if male/female maker is an important aspect to your investment. 

As for market prices on the banana, Ill just say that a few people getting desperate does not set the market.

Cheers,
Jonas

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_CD CONSTRICTORS_ (07-19-2013),dr del (07-20-2013)

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## Mike41793

> So you would buy a high end male and pair it with one female?


x2 lol. I'm not a fan of bananas but if i got my hands on a GHI you can bet your butt he'd be seeing as many females as i could put him to lol! Not to make a ton of money, to make sexy combos!  :Good Job:

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_CD CONSTRICTORS_ (07-19-2013),_whispersinmyhead_ (10-29-2013)

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## CD CONSTRICTORS

> x2 lol. I'm not a fan of bananas but if i got my hands on a GHI you can bet your butt he'd be seeing as many females as i could put him to lol! Not to make a ton of money, to make sexy combos!


1.0 GHI is next on the short list.... and he will see more than one female as well  :Good Job: 

Hope I don't tank the GHI market too  :Surprised:

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## Mike41793

> 1.0 GHI is next on the short list.... and he will see more than one female as well 
> 
> Hope I don't tank the GHI market too


Dude no worries, just send all your non-holdbacks to me. Problem solved. We don't want the USS GHI to sink!  :Wink:

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## joebad976

Where are all the female bananas? Need them to make supers but don't see many of them available. IMO the female banana price should be on the rise. Are breeders giving genetics guarantees on the male maker/female maker bananas?

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## CD CONSTRICTORS

> Where are all the female bananas? Need them to make supers but don't see many of them available. IMO the female banana price should be on the rise. Are breeders giving genetics guarantees on the male maker/female maker bananas?


Compared to many other morphs you don't see as many Bananas available... male or female. Females are out there. You said you had a line on one months ago? Should have bought her maybe.

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## joebad976

> Compared to many other morphs you don't see as many Bananas available... male or female. Females are out there. You said you had a line on one months ago? Should have bought her maybe.


I did but was on the fence because of what we are discussing right now. It is inevitable that the prices will come down, just the way supply and demand happens to work out. No one can predict the price of a male maker banana in 2014/2015 but I am certain it will not be $7500 nor will it be $75. The price will eventually plateau and I will buy into the project at that time if it fits into what I am working on.

Also, remember the season is young. Lots of breeders are having late seasons this year so expect to see some more price drops coming in Sept/Oct. Search for banana on KS resulted in 14 hits. Cheapest male maker I found was $5495 and I found some more females which is great. It looks like females may be holding some value from a few months ago.

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## zues

One posted on fauna last night for 3500. 

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...d.php?t=412322

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## CD CONSTRICTORS

> One posted on fauna last night for $3500. 
> 
> http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...d.php?t=412322


Another fine example of a meaningless, uninformative description of a Banana. Male maker? Female maker?

I would prefer to buy my high end morph from a more reliable breeder. For those of you that want a Banana of unknown origin, then you get what you pay for. I imagine these cheap Bananas will sit around for a while. Its like seeing an ad for a new Corvette for $20K.... something does not add up IMHO.

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## TheSnakeGeek

> So you would buy a high end male and pair it with one female?


i'm not necessarily saying i wouldnt.. but people wonder why prices drop so fast. its supply and demand, and that's common practice when someone invests that much in a snake. but with that going on everywhere its inevitable the prices are going to drop so quick. that morph is no longer rare, so why would it demand a rare price tag? but in reality, 5-6 females? probably not. i may run him through 3. you're still going to get your investment back and some, but wont contribute to the crash as much. if everyone thought like that, prices may not fall off as fast, but they dont, so people do run them through all their females, thus all these threads of people complaining about investment quality morphs crashing. butcha cant stop it. it's like peeing in the wind.

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## TessadasExotics

Oh yes. Lets get a Banana male and pair him to my 10 females! Oh I have 8 females to breed this banana male to! Dang I just got a banana male, Im gona breed him to my 15 females!
If 30 people have a banana male and think and do this very thing, whats that do for the market? Thats exactly what a lot of people do. It's ignorant. There are TONS of bananas out there. If people were smart they would choose their breedings wisely and make just a few at a time to sell. Make just enough to further your projects and recoup your initial investment. It's called SUSTAINABILITY. Instead people have to slam as many females to their prized high end morph male as possible so they can help drop the value of the market. Mass production! lol

As far as I was meaning about Kevin. Ask him how he feels about what people have done to the Banana. Ask him how he thinks the banana market is going to look next year.

Anyone who thinks that they wont be 1200 or below next year is just not wanting to see reality. They just dropped from 10k to 8k to 5k and now about 3.5k in a matter of a few months. Last year people were still selling them for 20k.

Makes no difference to me. I will wait till im comfortable with the price fall before I get one. I want one just to have one, not to make money off it, most of the combos are ugly imo. I just wish people would think wisely with their investments. Make it last. Make your investment work for you. Don't just crash the market because you want to sell as many as you can to make a few extra dollars. That my friends is ignorant.

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Juicebøx (10-27-2013)

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## TheSnakeGeek

> most of the combos are ugly imo


i kinda feel the same way. the banana itself is pretty dope, but most of the combos pretty much just look like bananas.. kinda like the albino. it just doesnt seem to bring that much to the table combo-wise. there are a couple neat ones.. but eh.

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## TheSnakeGeek

much like the champagnes too.

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## TheSnakeGeek

and come to think about it, the fact that it doesnt bring much to the table in combos may be another small piece to the giant picture of why they're crashing so fast. some morphs that werent so pricey in the beginning pop some wicked combos and actually go UP in prices (i.e. the enchi). people seem to forget how pricey champagnes were and how quick they crashed.. because now everyone is crying over the banana/coral glow. but the champ was pretty much a dead end when it came to combos.. there are a handful of neat ones, like the banana, but for the most part when stacked with other genes, they're just "eh.." at least IMO..

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_JMinILM_ (07-20-2013)

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## Emilio

I have one question for all of you?? The Peppering is it appealing to you? I hate it. I'd rather have a nice toffee or Pastel Lavender albino.


Bananas aren't my thing. Rather get a GHI.

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dr del (07-20-2013),_joebad976_ (07-20-2013),_Mike41793_ (07-20-2013)

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## TheSnakeGeek

> I have one question for all of you?? The Peppering is it appealing to you?


no. lol thats why i think the banana will eventually end up like the champagne.

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## Jonas@Balls2TheWall

We all have our opinions, personally I think the banana is the nicest morph to ever hit the ball python market. Maybe you have to see them in person to appreciate them?

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## Marrissa

I like the black spots. I think it looks really neat with the contrast of the white/yellow/and black.

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## TheSnakeGeek

oh i think the banana is a beautiful animal and i've seen a handful in person. i'm not crazy about their freckles, but they still look awesome.. i just think most if the banana combos i've seen dont look that much better (if any) than the original banana. the morph doesnt "blend" well with a lot of other stuff, it overpowers them.. much like the champ.

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_JMinILM_ (07-20-2013),_satomi325_ (07-21-2013)

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## JMinILM

> i kinda feel the same way. The banana itself is pretty dope, but most of the combos pretty much just look like bananas.. Kinda like the albino. It just doesnt seem to bring that much to the table combo-wise. There are a couple neat ones.. But eh.


x2

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## Shadera

May I add my couple pennies?

In my opinion, the people who will get higher prices for the morph are the people who will consider longer payment plans on them, despite the headaches of them.

In my hunt for another CG, most payment plans I've seen offered (in the contacts I have made) are 2-4 weeks, after a 20-30% initial down payment.  If most of us smaller hobbyists had that kinda cash lying around, we wouldn't be asking for payment plans.

I'll be offering 6 months to a year payment plans on any I produce.  My animals don't pay my mortgage, so I can afford to help other smaller breeders out a bit.

The guys offering those low low prices want the cash now, payment in full.

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## towelie4365

I'm still waiting to see what the banana pied looks like... that my main reason for wanting one right now  :Razz:

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## JMinILM

> I'm still waiting to see what the banana pied looks like... that my main reason for wanting one right now


If it shows pattern it will be amazing.

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## towelie4365

Are there any indications that it reduces pattern?

A banana lesser isn't reduced, neither is a banana mojave, which I would think would be reduced if it would do that?

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## Emilio

> We all have our opinions, personally I think the banana is the nicest morph to ever hit the ball python market. Maybe you have to see them in person to appreciate them?



Nicest morph to ever hit is the pied, I've seen plenty of bananas I guess we'll agree to disagree. :Very Happy:

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_JMinILM_ (07-21-2013)

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## satomi325

I personally like the base coral glow. I've seen them in person. However, I do  agree that all of their combos look very similar to the original and dead end-ish. Like albino, the only ones that wow me are the patterned morph combos. I even think the super CG looks worse than the base single gene.

Either way, I don't think I plan on having one in my breeding program. If I did have one, it'll be just a nice pet like my albino.




> Are there any indications that it reduces pattern?
> 
> A banana lesser isn't reduced, neither is a banana mojave, which I would think would be reduced if it would do that?


Its all in the breeding.
The snakes posted aren't reduced because the lesser and Banana used were probably busy examples. If someone bred a reduced lesser and banana, the offspring would be reduced. Works like any other breeding.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

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## Jonas@Balls2TheWall

> Nicest morph to ever hit is the pied, I've seen plenty of bananas I guess we'll agree to disagree.


Like I said, opinion.  :Good Job:

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## towelie4365

> Its all in the breeding.
> The snakes posted aren't reduced because the lesser and Banana used were probably busy examples. If someone bred a reduced lesser and banana, the offspring would be reduced. Works like any other breeding.
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


I was more referring to when its mixed with pied. I don't see any indications that it would be an all-white snake

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## Jonas@Balls2TheWall

BTW just to name a few combos that IMO are spectacular.

Pin. Lemon Blast. Cinny. Mochi. Mojo. Calico. And those are just some. I will agree that some combos are blah but IMO thats a good thing, leaves room for other projects not involving the banana.  :Very Happy:  Some of the best morphs dont exactly blend well with all others, pied is one example.

Also when people post pics of a banana out of the egg, it really does then no justice, they really start to GLOW after a few sheds.

This guy here has shed a few times and he literally glows, it almost seems unreal in person.

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## Stewart_Reptiles

> I was more referring to when its mixed with pied. I don't see any indications that it would be an all-white snake


Just like years ago there was no indication that a Spider Pied would mainly be white with only some pattern on it's head, or that a Lesser Pied would be white, it's not about the Spider or the Lesser and how busy they are it's about how those gene react with the Pied gene.

Some genes when mix with the pied gene seems to erase pattern while some seem to increase it making the pied combos very low white.

How will the Pied gene will react with Banana/CG gene well we will know when it's done.  :Wink: 

Hopefully it will not be the curse of the white snake.

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## towelie4365

> Just like years ago there was no indication that a Spider Pied would mainly be white with only some pattern on it's head, or that a Lesser Pied would be white, it's not about the Spider or the Lesser and how busy they are it's about how those gene react with the Pied gene.
> 
> Some genes when mix with the pied gene seems to erase pattern while some seem to increase it making the pied combos very low white.
> 
> How will the Pied gene will react with Banana/CG gene well we will know when it's done. 
> 
> Hopefully it will not be the curse of the white snake.


True. But the spider gene SEVERELY reduces pattern, and the lesser gene produces BEL's in its super form or mixed with mojave. Similarly, the mojave also reduces the pied's pattern. Super black pastels also have no pattern, and black pastel pieds typically are very high white. I'm not aware of any pied combo that is almost all white that doesn't show that capability in other ways. I hope I'm not wrong, but I'd say it will be patterned

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## TheSnakeGeek

> Hopefully it will not be the curse of the white snake.


hey now! i dont think white snakes are a curse. lol after all, the solid white snake was once the "holy grail." but i get where you're coming from, white snakes are a 100% dead end.

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## TheSnakeGeek

> 


like i said earlier, GORGEOUS animal. even people outside the hobby wouldn't deny that specimen is beautiful, but i haven't seen a single banana combo that i would honestly say looks BETTER than the single gene banana. while i do think some of the combos are cool, the only reason i would like a banana combo more than the single gene is more from an "inside the hobby" viewpoint with respect to its breeding potential. if you asked someone that had no inside knowledge of snake breeding, animal's worth, or the value of a "power house" animal from a breeding standpoint, i honestly believe if you set a single gene banana down next to most of the combos that have been produced, the outsider would be indifferent. 

i'm not saying that for every single one of the banana combos, and i'm not trying to bash the banana in any way, just giving my thoughts on the project. i believe the banana pied will most likely be jaw-dropping. the only thing is, with this weird sex skewing the bananas' offspring are known to have, it's not going to be as easy to get both a male and female banana het pied.

everyone knows the champagne is almost a dead end to most combos, but i still own one and think they are beautiful in their own right. i think the banana is a beautiful animal too, but i paid 1/6th the price of bananas right now for my champ, and don't plan on considering a banana/coral glow until they're much cheaper. they just don't seem like they'd be that much fun to "play around" with in my breeding plans. it has nothing to do with their price. i think the GHI blends PHENOMENALLY with a lot of morphs and would jump on that project in a heartbeat if i had upwards of 10 grand laying around somewhere.

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_JMinILM_ (07-21-2013)

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## eatgoodfood

I wonder what an axanthic bananna would look like...  I dont like them, I dont like light snakes, If they had somehow some darker colors mixed in they would be awesome.  I think their too much of a hype and not worth the stupid ammounts of money being asked for.  Even if the price dropped to 300, which in some years im sure it will, I still likely wouldnt buy one, unless someone figures out how to get some contrast into them.

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## JMinILM

> I was more referring to when its mixed with pied. I don't see any indications that it would be an all-white snake


Was there any indication that lesser or spider or any number of other genes would produce all or mostly white snakes when mixed with Pied before they were produced? We should know in the near future. I'm sure many are working on it.

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## towelie4365

> Was there any indication that lesser or spider or any number of other genes would produce all or mostly white snakes when mixed with Pied before they were produced? We should know in the near future. I'm sure many are working on it.


I think you missed my other post, but I think there were indications:




> True. But the spider gene SEVERELY reduces pattern, and the lesser gene produces BEL's in its super form or mixed with mojave. Similarly, the mojave also reduces the pied's pattern. Super black pastels also have no pattern, and black pastel pieds typically are very high white. I'm not aware of any pied combo that is almost all white that doesn't show that capability in other ways. I hope I'm not wrong, but I'd say it will be patterned

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## Marrissa

So when you guys are talking about how it doesn't blend well with other morphs are you referring to the color takes over all else or the pattern? I love the almost unnatural color they have and have gone through the WOPB banana pages and loved the way they came out.

banana spider 
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/banana-spider/
I like the subtle pinstripe and the bright golden color
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/banana-pin/
pastel fades it out and gives it a neat look
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/banana-pastel/
banana GHI is pretty awesome looking
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/banana-ghi/
banana fire spider
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/mo...a-fire-spider/

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## sum182

This remains one of my favorite banana combos, just love the dark purplish color brought out by the cinny gene, cross this with a black back......i just wanna see it haha

http://www.worldofballpythons.com/mo...nnamon-banana/

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## Freakie_frog

> I wonder what an axanthic bananna would look like...  I dont like them, I dont like light snakes, If they had somehow some darker colors mixed in they would be awesome.  I think their too much of a hype and not worth the stupid ammounts of money being asked for.  Even if the price dropped to 300, which in some years im sure it will, I still likely wouldnt buy one, unless someone figures out how to get some contrast into them.


Only time will tell for sure.  :Wink:

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## Pythonfriend

Banana GHI just looks ridiculous (as does coral glow GHI). These colors are not what you can normally get in ball pythons.

About the speckling, the tiny black dots: I love them. And i would say, if you dont like them, maybe its not the right gene for you. We have albino, and the candy and toffee which are compatible with albino to make candino and toffino, and we have caramel, and lavender albino. Not to forget ultramel.  None have the tiny black dots.

Generally, very few light-colored snakes can have these black dots. Maybe you can get them sometimes by using genes that really obliterate the pattern, like atomic or champagne. But an undisturbed pattern in the background with these tiny dots on top....   I think its rare. Like it or not, it sets Banana/CG apart from all the other stuff i mentioned above.

That being said, one question:

If more and more people hit their supers, will the whole "male maker/ female maker"- thing still matter? As i understand it (and i am not sure), the best way to make a super is to breed a male banana that is a male maker to a female banana, this will give you good chances for a male super banana. Or you breed a male banana that is a FEMALE maker to a female banana, this will give you got chances for a female super banana.

But when considering a male or female super banana, will it still matter if it has male makers or female makers in its ancestry? I dont know, so im asking, but i think it wouldnt matter anymore. All offspring of the super banana, male or female, will have one copy of the gene, regardless of gender. Thats just what supers do. Also, lets say you have a male super banana and breed it to some females and get banana hatchlings, can you still label them "male-maker" or "female-maker", does it still make sense? 

If you breed a male-maker banana to a female and hit a male super, and then breed the super to different females, wouldnt the offspring of that second generation be something like "100% het male maker" at best? How does it translate into offspring when the super got one copy each from each parents, and passes off one of these at random to its offspring?

Best Regards

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_Jonas@Balls2TheWall_ (07-22-2013)

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## Jonas@Balls2TheWall

You pose an interesting question. I suppose time will tell.

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## Murse

Banana Spotnose is nice. 
People need to realize that just because "I am putting my XX Banana with these females does not mean that breeding will occur. Next, unless your male is a super, your clutches are not all banana morphs. My banana morph male will be with the same amount as my GHI male will be. I guess GHI will be $1200 next years also. LOL.
I am very excited for the Banana to drop in price for people. They are outstanding. Whatever their price ends up at, they will sell, sell, sell. 
The banana is a snake that non ball python or non reptile people have to agree is beautiful. To me, this means they will always sell.

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## Murse

Banana Pinstripe
Banana Cinnamon
Banana Black Pastel
Super Banana
These are all pretty snakes.

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## PsychD_Student

> Can you hear it?
> 
> All of those Bananas that have been hidden away and bred like crazy are starting to come out of hiding.  Just seen a male for 4500. Guess the real DOWN TO EARTH prices will be coming around real soon. They will be 1200 or less by next year.


Or by the end of this year!

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## wendhend

I really like the banana genetic stripe! 

http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=2014795,2014795

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## snakesRkewl

> Can you hear it?
> 
> All of those Bananas that have been hidden away and bred like crazy are starting to come out of hiding.  Just seen a male for 4500. Guess the real DOWN TO EARTH prices will be coming around real soon. They will be 1200 or less by next year.


Saw one today for $1350, try $1000 or less next year.

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## Pythonfriend

> I really like the banana genetic stripe! 
> 
> http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=2014795,2014795


extremely stunning

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## MarkS

Interesting to see this thread brought up again.  Personally I plan on getting my banana/coral glow when they hit $500.00, when that happens is anybodies guess but I'm hoping that's the point when all the drama starts to die down.

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_MrLang_ (10-29-2013)

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## CD CONSTRICTORS

> Saw one today for $1350, try $1000 or less next year.


That is a great price. As with everything though.... wait till next year and you miss out on a year of production- maybe 2 years if you don't get a good eater/breeder.

At even $500 each next year and average clutch odds I will still quadruple my investment with ease. Thats just the base morph of course. I obviously paired with something other than Normals.

Already have locks with Normal, Pinstripe, Spider, Enchi, and Clown and more to come. They are buried in this post somewhere....

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...reeding-thread

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black06gt (10-29-2013),_JoshR324_ (10-28-2013)

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## dr del

Does anyone know what Gen3 males throw sex/morph wise yet?

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## CD CONSTRICTORS

> Does anyone know what Gen3 males throw sex/morph wise yet?


I have 2.0 Gen2 male makers. They are locking and I will have some data come spring/summer.

I'm sure bigger breeders have more data already.

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dr del (10-29-2013)

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## MrLang

This is a good place for me to bring this up and I could probably get an answer more easily elsewhere but...

This business about "Male Makers"... I see the prices going down like crazy on these guys and people are always quoting "male maker" but some are not. If I understand correctly the issue is that they are not producing females? I'm surprised people are diving into the project with that knowledge. Yeah, the offspring look cool... but how much room do people have for males and all of the male combos that come out of the pairings. Think about how low the single gene males will be after a season when everyone holds back a multi-gene and decides to sell their single gene males. Too volatile for me.

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## MarkS

> This is a good place for me to bring this up and I could probably get an answer more easily elsewhere but...
> 
> This business about "Male Makers"... I see the prices going down like crazy on these guys and people are always quoting "male maker" but some are not. If I understand correctly the issue is that they are not producing females? I'm surprised people are diving into the project with that knowledge. Yeah, the offspring look cool... but how much room do people have for males and all of the male combos that come out of the pairings. Think about how low the single gene males will be after a season when everyone holds back a multi-gene and decides to sell their single gene males. Too volatile for me.


I think that the thought behind 'male-makers' is the market for combo morphs.  EX: breed your male maker to an adult female pied, hold back all the male babies which will be bananas, power feed the heck out of them and you'll be able to get at least one of them up to breeding size quickly so you can breed it back to it's mother the following season and produce banana pieds in only a year.   Personally I think it's a benefit that's a bit overblown.

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## Pythonfriend

i think the male maker issue definitively contributes to the price falling so quickly.

with the right females already present, it can be used to effectively cut down the generation time, and you get into multi-gene combos much faster. the drawbacks are that it takes a lot of work to get female bananas and then super bananas. and of course it causes market prices to drop faster, especially for single-gene male hatchlings.

also, just to avoid confusion....  the clutches will still be around 50% males and 50% females. its just that most males are bananas, and most females are not, and the other genes are randomly distributed.

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## rascal_rascal_99

> I have 2.0 Gen2 male makers. They are locking and I will have some data come spring/summer.
> 
> I'm sure bigger breeders have more data already.


Just curious about your statement...and really curious to know more about it and about what you produce. From what was labeled as being the "gen2" male, this would be one of the odd males produced by a female maker and supposedly when bred, broke away from the male/female maker phenomenon?

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## grcforce327

> I have 2.0 Gen2 male makers. They are locking .


So your males are gay???

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## CD CONSTRICTORS

> Just curious about your statement...and really curious to know more about it and about what you produce. From what was labeled as being the "gen2" male, this would be one of the odd males produced by a female maker and supposedly when bred, broke away from the male/female maker phenomenon?


Both my males were produced from 1st generation male makers from Mike Wilbanks. That would make them 2nd generation male makers. I have no doubt my production ratios will be very similar to Mike's, and the males produced from them will be labeled 3rd gen male maker males. I almost bought a female from him at the same time, but decided with as many pairings as I will have this year I would shoot for that 10% odds of making my own female and keep her. I was briefly big on the Super Banana project, but not really so much now. I just want to make some cool Banana combos with them.




> So your males are gay???


Only if all my proven breeder females have swapped sex somehow...lol  :Wink: 

This girl couldn't even hide it in the water bowl!!

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_ROACH_ (10-30-2013)

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## DesignerBP

> The 4500 was a male maker male so I guess that theory is out. They will be 1200 or less by next year. Do you even realize how many bananas are out there? The banana market is on its way down. And faster than what some may want to believe. Don't care which breeders think they are going to hold on to the 10k+ price tag. Not many are going to pay it if they can go get them for 8k+ less. A banana is a banana. Doesnt matter who makes it. Talk to someone like Kevin and see what his thoughts are on the subject. Yes double, tripple, quad, supers and the like will still hold a good Proffitt.  Thats a no brainer as its more than one gene.


you called it! males are under $800 six months later.

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## RuGGeR

> you called it! males are under $800 six months later.


$800??? Where?? I have not seen one that is under 1k...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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## Pythonfriend

> $800??? Where?? I have not seen one that is under 1k...


on this forum i have often seen prices quoted for these, around 1250 or 1000 or 900. also prices for morphs generally go down, and banana/CG will fall in price more rapidly than other morphs do. 800 sounds possible and plausible right now, wait a few months and it will be the norm.

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## Austinwwilson16

> The 4500 was a male maker male so I guess that theory is out. They will be 1200 or less by next year. Do you even realize how many bananas are out there? The banana market is on its way down. And faster than what some may want to believe. Don't care which breeders think they are going to hold on to the 10k+ price tag. Not many are going to pay it if they can go get them for 8k+ less. A banana is a banana. Doesnt matter who makes it. Talk to someone like Kevin and see what his thoughts are on the subject. Yes double, tripple, quad, supers and the like will still hold a good Proffitt.  Thats a no brainer as its more than one gene.


Haha I know this is an old thread but I just picked up a coral glow male for $675 at an expo hahahaha. I feel bad for the poor idiots that bought them two years ago

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## Zach Cedor

> Haha I know this is an old thread but I just picked up a coral glow male for $675 at an expo hahahaha. I feel bad for the poor idiots that bought them two years ago


you may have just picked one up for 675 but those "poor idiots" that bought them at 5-10-15k two years ago have been making a profit on them for over a year now before the market dropped on them. so think of it this way you got yours for 675 best case scenario its a male and breeds next season what if by that time the price is down to 450 its going to take you years to come anywhere close to what those "poor idiots" made on there investment two years ago just my 0.2 cents

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_AlexisFitzy_ (05-25-2014),_Coopers Constrictors_ (05-25-2014),_Dave Green_ (05-25-2014),_joebad976_ (05-25-2014),JPR (08-10-2014),lilnash0 (05-31-2014),qegalpal (05-25-2014),rascal_rascal_99 (05-26-2014),_STjepkes_ (05-26-2014)

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## alan12013

LOL and now you can get them for under 700 from an auction with most breeders selling at 750...

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## ajmreptiles

yeah but its still a good project to get into and still has high popularity from what I've seen

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## alan12013

I believe it and I would love to actually.  I understand how you can still profit from it even when bought at the higher prices but I just think that it shouldn't have come down that fast.  It's almost comical that they dropped so much in only a couple years.  If I ever get into investment quality snakes I now have at least an idea of the volatility to expect.  I wasn't around to see the drops in any of the other high dollar morphs so this is the only one I have seen first hand.

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## CORBIN911

> I believe it and I would love to actually.  I understand how you can still profit from it even when bought at the higher prices but I just think that it shouldn't have come down that fast.  It's almost comical that they dropped so much in only a couple years.  If I ever get into investment quality snakes I now have at least an idea of the volatility to expect.  I wasn't around to see the drops in any of the other high dollar morphs so this is the only one I have seen first hand.


Its not recessive, ALL Co-Dom/Dom genes drop fast

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## TessadasExotics

> LOL and now you can get them for under 700 from an auction with most breeders selling at 750...


Actually you can get them for under 500. All listed prices are super inflated. Ball Pythons as a whole are crashing, and doing it fast. There is way too much greed and pore business practices, as a whole, in this hobby. People keep slashing prices 50%-75% each year for no reason other than to make a quick buck. You can now go pick up a ghi and a cg for under 900, combined.
Honestly a male cg isnt worth much more than 200 imo.

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## Marrissa

> Its not recessive, ALL Co-Dom/Dom genes drop fast


Yep. A year ago I bought a leopard female for 750 shipped, and that was a good deal for the time. This year 2014 female leopards are 300-400 and I can get a combo leopard female for that 750 I spent. Anything easy to breed for is going to drop fast. I don't regret buying her one bit. By fall next year she'll be ready to breed and potentially make me three and four gene combo leopards.

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## alan12013

Exactly.  Way too much business practices.  Once people threw the word "investment" in front of ball python it ruined it for the time being...  If you wanted you could pick up a mega combo male from an auction and breed the crud out of it then sell it and then auction off all the offspring.  The volatility is completely controllable from the top too in my opinion.  The auctions are probably the thing that upsets me the most, though I have built some of my collection using them.  I've also shopped at walmart...  It's way too easy to "invest" in the Ball Python market.  It makes me sick.  Some breeders are rewarded by this auctioning business with their practices in place.  They don't care if they sell a rare snake or a common one so long as it turns a quick buck and clears out rack space for the next in line.  I'm assuming that's whats going on anyway.  I've been working on how to get around all this mumbo jumbo and still be able to profit from working with reptiles the way I want but it sucks knowing all the stuff that other people are doing.  I do believe that I have a business plan (if I dare call it that) that I can be proud of.  I can see where this is going and eventually there will be market corrections but in the mean time if I can get a nice snake that will help in my plans for 50 bucks then I'm going to do it.  I think it's funny when I watch a commercial, err I mean youtube video, of some one talking about how the market works and this tiered system.

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## ajmreptiles

It all comes down to supply and demand

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## alan12013

HAHA ya and you believe in efficient market theory too...

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## Mike Schultz

> Honestly a male cg isnt worth much more than 200 imo.


I have sold about 8-10 bananas in the past three weeks at $650-750 each so i don't know where this is coming from! Obviously they are worth that if they are selling!

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## CrystalRose

Bananas were around 650 to 750 at the expo I went to beginning of the month. The biggest surprise to me was the pied price..300 for a male or 400 for a male pied with a het pied female.

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