# Colubrids > Ratsnakes >  Are all rat snakes aggressive?

## Jus1More

This question is for all of you that have a rat snake species. There are several different kinds of rat snakes available but which ones would be recommended as a good first time rat snake keeper? I have been reading about the different ones and they all seem to be bitey and have attitudes... 
Although there are some pretty ones, like the Chinese beauty and VBB, but all those ones able to tame and be handled? I also like the Mandarins (Sorry if I said that wrong). Just want everyone's feed back on their take on these amazing snake... Also if you have pictures PLEASE SHARE  :Smile:

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## MissterDog

No personal experience on them YET (will change in a month) but Russian Rat Snakes have the reputation of being the "friendliest" of snakes with a natural bold and curious nature that don't mind handling. Several members who have owned or currently own them have said nothing but excellent things about them, so hoping they chime in!

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Charis (06-22-2018),_Jus1More_ (06-16-2018)

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## richardhind1972

I had a grey rat snake for 17years for my 13th birthday and she was fine , dont think I ever got nipped by her , except for being sexed wrong, We was told it was a Roland but ended up laying eggs most years So was a Roberta in the end lol 
Things was a bit different in the 80s keeping wise  to nowadays 


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*Bogertophis* (06-16-2018),C.Marie (06-16-2018),_Jus1More_ (06-16-2018),rottn (06-23-2018)

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## Bogertophis

You need to consider the vast number of different kinds of rat snakes there are...some are far more feisty than others.  I've known many kinds for over 3 decades 
and bred some kinds too...still have 16 snakes, of which most are "rat snakes".  I love their inquisitive nature, their beauty & activity, ease of care, & overall sizes.

You asked about Chinese Beauty rat snakes:  in the past I kept & bred a few of those.  They get quite large and are very active...more like a "racer" type snake, 
so yes, they're going to be a real challenge to hold.  I handled mine from the time they were hatchlings & I wouldn't call them mean at all...much depends on you.

If you want my opinion as to the most beautiful yet laid-back rat snakes, it's the Trans Pecos and Bairds rat snakes you might look into.  TPs stay smaller, about 
4', while the Bairds are more like 6' but just as docile.  One of my Bairds lived to age 26, & both of these are fun to "meet & greet" people who are afraid of snakes.

If you want some screaming color (besides corn snakes), check out Everglades rat snakes.  When you raise them from hatchlings, they make great pets, about 6' too. 
Others in the same family- grey, black, yellow rat snakes are great pets as well, assuming you aren't dealing with wild caughts...that's why so many rat snake species 
have a bad reputation in the first place- originally the pet-trade was selling terrified wild-caught specimens with attitudes & parasites.  Go figure why that doesn't work?

Rat snakes, overall, are not "pet rocks" like BPs are...that's why I love them most.  They are easy to feed, not too huge to handle, & they're full of personality.  
I currently have 5 corn snakes, 3 Trans Pecos rat snakes (which eat f/t mice, btw, NOT rats! "rat snake" is the generic category name), 4 Florida rat snakes that 
are likely a cross of yellow-gulf hammock-& a dash of Everglades? -they were captive bred & FL owner had to sell/move- the males are HUGE, about 7', while the 
females are smaller, about 5', because every year they insist on laying over 2 dozen infertile eggs.  

And I have one more rat snake, the only kind I wouldn't recommend:  a Korean rat snake.  I had wanted a Russian rat snake but found these, assumed they'd be 
similar.  They aren't.  Super shy, flighty, can be nippy if you persist in holding...more like a racer, like a coachwhip, than a typical rat snake.  They can be hard to 
feed too, because of their shyness.  Hope some are working with the breeding, they'd be attractive pets if mellower like the Russians have the reputation of being.
(they are dark green as adults, with yellow underneath)

Rat snakes do best with good ventilation and space to move, taller cages (glass tanks) with branches...and I like watching my snakes, so that works for me.  If you 
have no space & want to keep them in bins/racks, stick with beepers.  Rat snakes have the intelligence to watch the world around them, don't take that away from 
them...it helps them to "know" us & be calm about handling.  I have mostly worked with U.S. species, so hopefully other members can add more about those 
from other lands?

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C.Marie (06-16-2018),Charis (06-22-2018),_Dianne_ (11-18-2018),_distaff_ (11-18-2018),e_nigma (02-24-2019),John1982 (06-23-2018),_Jus1More_ (06-16-2018),_richardhind1972_ (06-16-2018)

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## Jus1More

Thank you to everyone that replied so far. This is very good info I'm getting and helps alot ... :Good Job: 

Anyone else wanna chime in on this topic!

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## C.Marie

Never kept a rat snake but I think one hundred flowers snake and Blue Beauty snake are gorgeous as far as temperament  I could not say hope you find the prefect one for you oh and rhino rats are also pretty awesome  :Wink:

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## Jus1More

> You need to consider the vast number of different kinds of rat snakes there are...some are far more feisty than others.  I've known many kinds for over 3 decades 
> and bred some kinds too...still have 16 snakes, of which most are "rat snakes".  I love their inquisitive nature, their beauty & activity, ease of care, & overall sizes.
> 
> You asked about Chinese Beauty rat snakes:  in the past I kept & bred a few of those.  They get quite large and are very active...more like a "racer" type snake, 
> so yes, they're going to be a real challenge to hold.  I handled mine from the time they were hatchlings & I wouldn't call them mean at all...much depends on you.
> 
> If you want my opinion as to the most beautiful yet laid-back rat snakes, it's the Trans Pecos and Bairds rat snakes you might look into.  TPs stay smaller, about 
> 4', while the Bairds are more like 6' but just as docile.  One of my Bairds lived to age 26, & both of these are fun to "meet & greet" people who are afraid of snakes.
> 
> ...


 Thanks for your reply... Read up on the Trans Pecos and would love to see one in person. I really think it would be hard to find them here (Toronto Canada) and shipping one would be $$$$.
I guess a girl can dream though!!!

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## Bogertophis

> Never kept a rat snake but I think one hundred flowers snake and Blue Beauty snake are gorgeous as far as temperament  I could not say hope you find the prefect one for you oh and rhino rats are also pretty awesome


A quick note of caution about the "hundred flowers" (Moellendorf's) rat snake:  read up on them first to make SURE your year-round temperatures are suitable, they 
need to be cooler or they don't thrive.  I was SO tempted when I saw one (many years ago) in a pet store...I love their faces (very similar to Trans Pecos) but decided 
not to chance it after reading up on them.  (I lived in the southwest desert att & I've never been one to keep my house super-chilled w/ A/C-)

The good thing about snakes is there are SO many kinds who will fit our own lives too.  Researching first saves a lot of grief.  I skipped the Moellendorf's but 
found Trans Pecos.   :Very Happy:   They're a desert species from areas in New Mexico & TX, named for proximity to Trans Pecos river.

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C.Marie (06-16-2018)

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## Bogertophis

> Thanks for your reply... Read up on the Trans Pecos and would love to see one in person. I really think it would be hard to find them here (Toronto Canada) and shipping one would be $$$$.
> I guess a girl can dream though!!!


I bred these in the past, but the ones I now have came from a teacher in Maine who bred snakes & taught his classes of children all about them.  If you like, I'll see if 
I still have his contact information...maybe he's still breeding them?  Mine are the "normal" ones but are het for the silver & blonde phases.  I'm just no longer into 
breeding any...(I want to keep them all!  :Wink:   They're too darn cute!)

Anyway, there are other sources too, these are more well-known than many years ago when I first got into them.  My first one was a wild-caught from a pet store too 
(I know,  :Sad:  ) & even SHE turned into an amazingly friendly pet, in no time.  (And they'd been teasing & mistreating her in the store, & her cage stunk!  I hate to buy 
anything from such places, it keeps them doing it again, but I couldn't leave her there!)  She would actually carefully take food held between my fingers without biting me.

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_richardhind1972_ (06-16-2018)

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## Bogertophis

FYI- This was the guy (Doug Kranich) that I bought my Trans Pecos rat snakes from back in 2009.  

http://arguably.bangordailynews.com/...heir-backyard/

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Charis (06-22-2018),_Dianne_ (11-18-2018),_Jus1More_ (06-18-2018)

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## Charis

As was said, rat snake takes in a very large number of colubrid species! In general, while there are exceptions, most North American rat snakes are pretty calm and generally good pets whereas most Asian rat snakes are more flightly, whippy and bitey.

Mandarin ratsnakes are one of the exceptions, in my experience they are much closer to their North American cousins in temperament than any of the other Asian rats I keep.

Corn snakes are technically a rat snake as well and are very good pets. I also keep Trans Pecos and they are great pets. (I also got mine from Doug Kranich, in a trade, good breeder and very nice snakes!)

Here is my female Mandarin, Inara.





And my female Silver Blonde Trans Pecos, Echo.



And my Silver Blonde male, Orlando.

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*Bogertophis* (06-22-2018),_Jus1More_ (06-22-2018),_richardhind1972_ (06-22-2018)

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## Bogertophis

What an interesting coincidence, Charis, that you got your Trans Pecos rat snakes from Doug Kranich also.  Small world... :Snake:

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Charis (06-22-2018)

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## Charis

And I did keep a Beauty snake for a number of months, was a local find that needed a new home and I had been interested in them but not really sure about it. Anyway, I took her and did end up deciding that while a very cool animal, they aren't for me, at least right now. They are active, like to climb and get very big, very fast. I simply didn't/don't have the space for one and figured eventually I'd have to make or spend lots on a custom cage for her, as no readily available caging locally was going to cut it when she was full grown. So I found her another home.

She was pretty calm and docile for the most part but did sometimes have little flashes of temper. I'd definitely recommend getting one as a baby, even half grown and being used to dealing with temperamental Asian rats, she could be intimidating. I'd hate to deal with an 8 foot pissed off one! Should be sure it's handled lots while little.

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*Bogertophis* (06-22-2018),_Jus1More_ (06-22-2018)

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## Bogertophis

I so agree, Charis, on starting young with c/b Taiwan Beauty rat snakes.  I had gotten my unrelated pair as hatchlings, and yes, when they grow up, they 
need SERIOUSLY spacious caging.   :Wink:   Mine (as adults) were vigorous eaters, but not "mean"....just not really beginner snakes either.  A half-size "version" 
would be far more practical as pets than the normal 8 to 10' version, lol.

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Charis (06-22-2018),_Jus1More_ (06-22-2018)

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## Alter-Echo

I kept a spilotes pullatus for for many years, a South American rat snake of sorts, and that thing was a beast of a snake with an attitude to match. Beautiful, and easy to keep as long as it was warm and humid, and never missed a meal, but would bite anything that moved too fast for its liking.

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*Bogertophis* (06-22-2018),Charis (06-22-2018),_Jus1More_ (06-22-2018)

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## Jus1More

Oh man! I am liking those Trans Pecos rat snakes more and more... I guess I am out of luck though because finding that kind up here where I am would be like finding a needle in a hay stack!  :Sigh2:

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*Bogertophis* (06-22-2018)

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## Charis

> Oh man! I am liking those Trans Pecos rat snakes more and more... I guess I am out of luck though because finding that kind up here where I am would be like finding a needle in a hay stack!


Would you be able to find someone that breeds them in the US that could ship to Canada? I know some people can, though my personal experience is limited to just one sale and it wasn't an experience I'm in a hurry to repeat. My Canadian buyer found the person for me to ship to, who could then get them across and handled all communication with the middleman, so I'm still not sure how hard/easy it is. It was pretty pricey for my buyer, I know that. Conversion wasn't kind to them and they paid shipping twice but might be worth it if that's the only way to get one of what you really want.

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*Bogertophis* (06-22-2018),_Jus1More_ (06-23-2018)

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## Bogertophis

> Oh man! I am liking those Trans Pecos rat snakes more and more... I guess I am out of luck though because finding that kind up here where I am would be like finding a needle in a hay stack!


You never know until you do some more research.  I don't know if Doug Kranich is still breeding them or not, but try contacting him (I'm not on Facebook);
if he's NOT breeding them, he may know people who are, maybe even in your area?  It's quite possible that some of his past customers are in your area?
For that matter, there are others (in U.S.) breeding them too, & you can check out their reputation before dealing with them, like on Fauna Classifieds.

I know nothing about shipping to/from your area (any border rules?), but some needles are worth searching a haystack for, just sayin'...these are cute, mellow 
& reasonably-size snakes that are easy to handle, feed & keep.  (They do great in a 40 gal. tank...they like branches etc.)

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_Jus1More_ (06-23-2018)

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## Phillydubs

I own a mandarin rat snake myself and while very different, more active and a quick mover she isnt aggressive at all. Ive been tagged by her once and it was the first time I handled her after a few meals and she was and stillis a wee baby and it was totally my fault. 

Ive had her going on 6 months I think and not only is she gorgeous but very mellow every time I handle her. Hasnt struck at me since that first time when I learned from my mistake and that was that. This species in my experience is a very shy species and she does spend a lot of her time hiding but I do catch her out and about at times. They are a cooler temp snake I dont even run any heat source on the tank. Ive heard they can be picky eaters and she went on one 4 week fast during her first shed with me since then shes been packing away the mice and growing fast. Shes nearly tripled in size since I acquired her.

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*Bogertophis* (06-23-2018),_Jus1More_ (06-23-2018)

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## Zincubus

> Oh man! I am liking those Trans Pecos rat snakes more and more... I guess I am out of luck though because finding that kind up here where I am would be like finding a needle in a hay stack!


Ta da 



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## Jus1More

> Ta da 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


GEE THANKS ZIN! Now I am super jealous!  :Raspberries:

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## Jus1More

> I own a mandarin rat snake myself and while very different, more active and a quick mover she isnt aggressive at all. Ive been tagged by her once and it was the first time I handled her after a few meals and she was and stillis a wee baby and it was totally my fault. 
> 
> Ive had her going on 6 months I think and not only is she gorgeous but very mellow every time I handle her. Hasnt struck at me since that first time when I learned from my mistake and that was that. This species in my experience is a very shy species and she does spend a lot of her time hiding but I do catch her out and about at times. They are a cooler temp snake I dont even run any heat source on the tank. Ive heard they can be picky eaters and she went on one 4 week fast during her first shed with me since then shes been packing away the mice and growing fast. Shes nearly tripled in size since I acquired her.


Thanks Philly for sharing! I always thought that Mardarins were on the nippy side being a Asian species. They too are very beautiful, although their head share reminds me of a king snake some what... I will have to do a search here on thoses as well.

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## Jus1More

> Would you be able to find someone that breeds them in the US that could ship to Canada? I know some people can, though my personal experience is limited to just one sale and it wasn't an experience I'm in a hurry to repeat. My Canadian buyer found the person for me to ship to, who could then get them across and handled all communication with the middleman, so I'm still not sure how hard/easy it is. It was pretty pricey for my buyer, I know that. Conversion wasn't kind to them and they paid shipping twice but might be worth it if that's the only way to get one of what you really want.


Thank you Charis! I know that shipping from U.S. to Canada would be pricey. But I was thinking if I found someone in New York that had them, then that might be doable and I could drive. The border in Niagra Falls is only 1 hour from me. I also put in a call to one of my breeders here who travels to the U.S. alot for expo's (especially @ Tinley) so just maybe he can hook me up..fingers crossed!

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*Bogertophis* (06-23-2018),Charis (06-23-2018)

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## Zincubus

As regards the actual thread .. 
the Trans Peco Rat snake is a shy , gentle soul but fast moving ..




My Rnino-nosed Rat snake is perfect ... slow moving and calm , great to handle plus he's alert 24/7 never seems to switch off . Fabulous looking of course .


My Thai Bamboo Ratsnake  is an absolute psycho, pure display snake




Finally the two LTRs . Luicistic  Texas tat snake are also very nippy but gorgeous display snakes . Maybe they will calm down as they get older .




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*Bogertophis* (06-23-2018),Charis (06-23-2018),_richardhind1972_ (06-23-2018)

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## Bogertophis

> As regards the actual thread .. 
> the Trans Peco Rat snake is a shy , gentle soul but fast moving ..
> 
> 
> 
> ...............


"Shy & gentle souls" yes...but I have to disagree about the "fast-moving" part.  Maybe only as babies, but you do expect that, I hope?  I've kept Trans Pecos for 
many years, the first was a w/c (sadly from a pet store).  I later bred them & still currently have 3 just as unrelated pets.  They CAN move fast to catch food, but 
when handled by humans, they are slow, docile & curious.  I've used them in "meet & greets" and even those fearful of snakes get a friendly vibe from them.   
They are not the slightest bit nippy...more than many snakes, they seem able to distinguish humans from prey.

Zincubus, is yours still young?  Give it time, you'll see.  BTW, they are very nocturnal*....their large pupils expand to give them good night vision, but if you handle 
them in sunny outdoor daylight (as in Charis' video clip), you may find them to be antsy, because it is thought that the bright sunlight hurts their eyes.  So keep 
that in mind.  (*that doesn't mean you can't interact with them during the day though...mine always want to know what's going on.  I find them to be adorable  :Snake: 
but I generally handle them indoors.

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## Zincubus

Yep mine IS a baby and obviously very skittish ... I can't speak for adults as I've never had one ..


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## Bogertophis

> Yep mine IS a baby and obviously very skittish ... I can't speak for adults as I've never had one ..
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Ah, that explains it.  When they get past the defensive hatchling stage, they become some of the most "deliberate" adult snakes with regard to motion.  I've yet to
know one that isn't like that.  You'll see.

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Zincubus (06-23-2018)

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## Phillydubs

> Thank you Charis! I know that shipping from U.S. to Canada would be pricey. But I was thinking if I found someone in New York that had them, then that might be doable and I could drive. The border in Niagra Falls is only 1 hour from me. I also put in a call to one of my breeders here who travels to the U.S. alot for expo's (especially @ Tinley) so just maybe he can hook me up..fingers crossed!



I dont know how ot works crosisng the border with an animal. 

My thought is have he animal shipped to the nearest fed ex over the border drive to get it and drive back...?

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*Bogertophis* (06-23-2018)

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## Bogertophis

> I dont know how ot works crosisng the border with an animal....


Regs- I'd sure find out ahead of time.  Also, if you find yourself driving to pick-up, ALWAYS use a styrofoam box (or ice chest) to minimize temperature fluctuations 
that can harm your little passenger, whether it's from cold or from heat- even sun streaming thru car windows or heat from vehicle floor can & have killed snakes 
in transit.
But I suspect it's very do-able.

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Charis (06-23-2018)

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## Charis

Agreed, check first. It's been a few years since I saw several people talking about it but at that time, driving across and back was very easy, for most pet snake species and seemed to be the way to go if one was close to the border.

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## Jus1More

> I own a mandarin rat snake myself and while very different, more active and a quick mover she isn’t aggressive at all. I’ve been tagged by her once and it was the first time I handled her after a few meals and she was and stillis a wee baby and it was totally my fault. 
> 
> I’ve had her going on 6 months I think and not only is she gorgeous but very mellow every time I handle her. Hasn’t struck at me since that first time when I learned from my mistake and that was that. This species in my experience is a very shy species and she does spend a lot of her time hiding but I do catch her out and about at times. They are a cooler temp snake I don’t even run any heat source on the tank. I’ve heard they can be picky eaters and she went on one 4 week fast during her first shed with me since then she’s been packing away the mice and growing fast. She’s nearly tripled in size since I acquired her.


This is a question for Philly and Charis regarding Mandarin rat snakes. These guys would be my second choice in a rat snake but I have some reservations. 1)How are there habitat setting it up. 2)I have read they like it much cooler, so do I need a heat source? 3) are male calmer than females? 4) I read they get up to 4feet, is that for both males and females? 
5) are they aggressive as babies or just defensive "nippy"? 6) are they docile and easy going when handling them 
6) are they sqirmey when you handle them, meaning always trying to get away (like corn snakes). 7) are they good eaters? 8) can they live ok in a plastic bin? 

And if there is anything you can add please do.....
I am asking this because I have found a male baby Mandarin (locally) that I can get for $375, so I am thinking about it...  :Smile:

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## Charis

Husbandry is actually very conflicted on them, seems like half the keepers I know of keep them like Oreocryptophis, never above 82 degrees, and pretty humid, with some kind of humidity friendly substrate like peat moss, etc, to more like a standard North American colubrid, aspen or similar, heat spot of 82-88 degrees and most recommend a humid hide all the time. That last is how mine are set up. They were quite difficult to get established in captivity and many died while keepers figured them out. They have a huge range and some areas of it are humid and never get over the low 80s, other areas get into the 90s fairly regularly and are much more arid. My personal theory is that various keepers' success with them and the methods that worked for them, depended greatly on where the original wild caught stock was taken from. So if possible, I always recommend asking what the snake you are looking at is used to and continuing if that seems to be working for that person/snake.

My male was bought as a sub adult and is a different locality than my female. He is our second largest colubrid, tied with our adult Honduran, at around 6 feet. My female was a hatchling when we got her and is about 3 and a half to 4 feet long, she is as big or slightly smaller than most of my adult corn snakes. Neither of them have been bitey at any point, though the male is very food motivated and I'm always cautious with him. So far, he actually seems pretty good at telling the difference between human and prey though. No huge difference in temperament between them. I think the size difference is due to locality rather than gender as well. My male is a great eater, nothing puts him off his feed. The female has gone through a few fasts.

They do exhibit one behavior that is more consistent with Old World rats than New World rats. When they are nervous or scared, they want to wrap the last third of their body around something, an arm works really well, and will hold the rest of their body in a ready S shape away and unsupported. They are ready to flinch away or attack whatever scared them that way. It's important to let them get a good hold to get into that posture, otherwise they will freak out and flail all over. If allowed to hold the posture awhile, with nothing further scaring them, they will relax and go back to calmly exploring. Like all colubrids, they can be fast when they want to be but mine are generally pretty calm. 
A plastic bin should work fine.

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_Jus1More_ (06-24-2018)

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## Phillydubs

I second much of what was said above by the other fellow MRS owner... however we are keeping ours opposite. Where as they mentioned two ways, I keep mine the first way. No heat source and always under 80 degrees. 

I got mine through a shop which is owned by a guy who has been around for a long time. He claims to have connections with many old herpers such as Vin Russo etc and always has very solid stock from what I can tell. He said he grabbed a few MRS from a friend of his who has been breeding them for quite some time and selectively breeding them for their red sides. I guess depending on locality or type there are ones that can get very red on the side. The one I have is from some line breeding of such and you can easily tell. After each shed the sides get redder and redder. 

I do try to keep my humidity in the mid 70s. Mine is in a 1x1x1 glass enclosure and has always had perfect sheds. It went off feed once for a few weeks but it was right when the weather seemed to really change here and it was also going through shed but other than that wats fine but I leave the prey near its hide and its gone by morning. When I have tried to offer food it would defensively strike and then run. 

I also second the tail wrapping. Mine is young. I believe its only 6-7 months old and last weight was about 50g when I got it it was 16. 

I was always told to keep it cool and so thats what I have done. 

Ive never had an aggressive issue besides the first handling and I was verrrrry green and feel I made the mistake and thats why I got a quick tag. I think many snakes if not all are crazy defensive as babies then once that natural instinct breaks them and you bond with them and handle them right they will be fine with moderate handling. 


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Charis (06-24-2018),_Jus1More_ (06-24-2018)

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## Jus1More

THANK YOU VERY MUCH Charis and Philly for taking the time and responding. Your information has been a big help! Still debating between the Trans Pecos and Mandarin. To be truthful, I am in love with those big eyes the TP rat snake has, and even though I love the colors of the Mandarins, I would be nervous about keeping a proper habitat with the cooler temps and humidity. I think i found a breeder here in Canada who has a male & female blonde trans pecos. And with it still being within Canada, there is no middleman at the border. Still nervous though about shipping. But I am going to contact the breeder on Monday to get more details. Any how... my journey continues! Would it be ok to PM you both to chit chat more in detail??? Wanted to ask first  :Thumbs up:

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## Phillydubs

> THANK YOU VERY MUCH Charis and Philly for taking the time and responding. Your information has been a big help! Still debating between the Trans Pecos and Mandarin. To be truthful, I am in love with those big eyes the TP rat snake has, and even though I love the colors of the Mandarins, I would be nervous about keeping a proper habitat with the cooler temps and humidity. I think i found a breeder here in Canada who has a male & female blonde trans pecos. And with it still being within Canada, there is no middleman at the border. Still nervous though about shipping. But I am going to contact the breeder on Monday to get more details. Any how... my journey continues! Would it be ok to PM you both to chit chat more in detail??? Wanted to ask first


Anytime!

also dont worry about shipping. 

All but one of my animals have been shipped and they have all been fine and its been an easy process

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## Charis

> Would it be ok to PM you both to chit chat more in detail??? Wanted to ask first


Sure! I'd be happy to chat more about them or even the Trans Pecos.

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## Phillydubs

Here are some pics I took of him today. Hes 47g. Putting on a solid 15-20g a month. His prey size is soon to be upped. He can be cage defensive. Once hes moving hes easy to pick up and once out hes fine. 










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*Bogertophis* (06-25-2018),Charis (06-25-2018),_dakski_ (06-25-2018),_Jus1More_ (06-26-2018),_Prognathodon_ (06-25-2018),_richardhind1972_ (06-25-2018)

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## richardhind1972

Look great,colours are so cool


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## Jus1More

Very nice Philly!! You can see the red along the sides - very beautiful snake  :Good Job:

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## FollowTheSun

I know this is an older thread but I wanted to address the OP's question. I have a regular black ratsnake (albino). I got her when she was a hatchling, she's now about 9 months old. She is extremely gentle and docile. She's also very playful and curious. I have seen videos of aggressive ratsnakes, and I'm sure there is an inborn personality factor .. but the key is to hold them daily, and especially get them used to lifting up the hide and taking them out so they don't feel threatened by this. My snake has never snapped at me, "rattled' her tail, or musked at me.

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*Bogertophis* (11-18-2018)

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## Bogertophis

> I know this is an older thread but I wanted to address the OP's question. I have a regular black ratsnake (albino). I got her when she was a hatchling, she's now about 9 months old. She is extremely gentle and docile. She's also very playful and curious. I have seen videos of aggressive ratsnakes, and I'm sure there is an inborn personality factor .. but the key is to hold them daily, and especially get them used to lifting up the hide and taking them out so they don't feel threatened by this. My snake has never snapped at me, "rattled' her tail, or musked at me.


Always nice to hear from another happy rat snake owner!  They do learn & are very responsive snakes.  It helps to have them when they are growing up, but that's true of nearly everything...it's always harder to change old habits, so even a captive-bred rat snake can be feisty if it has grown up not being handled properly, or being fed live rodents that it must do battle with...that too can make snakes more defensive.  Snakes seem to generalize, whether it's human handlers & calmly accepting those they don't know, or just staying defensive because they are fed live rodents...pre-killed, either frozen/thawed or fresh, makes the best pets, not just safer & healthier but calmer.I do agree though that snakes have some individual "inborn" tendencies to either be feisty or calm...so some we might have to work a little harder with than others.  I know this because of having raised numerous clutches of rat snakes...in each group, some may be feistier than others & take longer to calm down.  Perfectly normal.

I hope you'll keep us updated on  your albino black rat snake, FollowTheSun...maybe start a thread to share?  Rat snakes as a group need more owners to 
speak up for them...they are still over-coming the negative stereotype from years past when many were sold in pet stores that were wild caught.

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_Dianne_ (11-18-2018),_distaff_ (11-18-2018),_FollowTheSun_ (11-18-2018),_Jus1More_ (12-01-2018)

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## Jbabycsx

> Here are some pics I took of him today. Hes 47g. Putting on a solid 15-20g a month. His prey size is soon to be upped. He can be cage defensive. Once hes moving hes easy to pick up and once out hes fine. 
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Man thats a beautiful snake! 


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*Bogertophis* (11-18-2018),_Phillydubs_ (11-18-2018)

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## distaff

I'll chime in as another fan of the Trans Pecos.   My Franklin is friendly, and easy going even with me.   I am a nervous, jumpy snake handler, which some of my animals pick up on, but he stays chill.  Besides, how could anything with a face that cute ever bite?  He is closely related to _Bogertophis rosaliae,_ the Baja ratsnake, but I haven't ever seen one for sale even on line.  I would like to acquire one, eventually.

The Glossy snake and the Baird's rat snake are also supposed to be mellow, but I don't have either...yet (short list).  Emily of Snake Discovery channel likes the fox snake.  I am assuming the fox is classed with the ratties, as it has the same brown morph cornsnake look to it, but not sure.  "Rat snake" seems to be a somewhat casual catch-all term anyway.

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*Bogertophis* (11-18-2018),_FollowTheSun_ (11-18-2018)

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## Bogertophis

> I'll chime in as another fan of the Trans Pecos.   My Franklin is friendly, and easy going even with me.   I am a nervous, jumpy snake handler, which some of my animals pick up on, but he stays chill.  Besides, how could anything with a face that cute ever bite?  He is closely related to _Bogertophis rosaliae,_ the Baja ratsnake, but I haven't ever seen one for sale even on line.  I would like to acquire one, eventually.
> 
> The Glossy snake and the Baird's rat snake are also supposed to be mellow, but I don't have either...yet (short list).  Emily of Snake Discovery channel likes the fox snake.  I am assuming the fox is classed with the ratties, as it has the same brown morph cornsnake look to it, but not sure.  "Rat snake" seems to be a somewhat casual catch-all term anyway.



Trans Pecos & Baird's are both my favorites for being super-mellow & adorable, but really I think that most rat snakes are NOT "aggressive" anyway. You need a Bairds!

Not many have worked with the Baja rat snakes, as far as I know...they're hard to come by & last I heard were considered "difficult" but who knows what that even 
means?  Maybe because the only ones available were wild-caught & came with parasites?  

Glossy snakes are adorable & stay small, but they aren't "rat snakes"...they're closer to longnose, kings, & milks.  I've had a few, they were native to where I lived in 
the SW desert.  They have a narrow face so they cannot eat adult mice, they need fuzzy or small hoppers at most.  First food is not pinkie mice so they are harder to c/b.
which is why you don't see people breeding them for sale.  Really under-rated though, they make good docile pets that are easy to feed & care for.

A 'late' friend of mine spoke highly of fox snakes, but I've never crossed paths with them so I can't say from my own experience; I do know they get their name from 
their odor (musk when or if they object to handling) but they look interesting...you don't see them around much either.  (yes, they're Pantherophis family)

I'm really happy to see your interest expressed in some of the less common species.   :Good Job:   We need a lot more of that, or some species are going to disappear.

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_distaff_ (11-18-2018),_Jus1More_ (12-01-2018)

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## Zincubus

LTRs can be very feisty as youngsters and don't even get me started on my Thai Red Bamboo Ratsnake !!


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*Bogertophis* (02-24-2019)

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