# Site General > Site Info >  Small potatoes?

## KMG

How is a user to feel when a issue they bring to a mod is refereed to as small potatoes? Important, I think not.

No matter how small you think a issue is as a mod I think it should be respected and given consideration. The user obliviously thought it was worth something, so should you.

I was told a similar thing once and it really annoyed me. It made me think the mods do not have the back bone to correct a users mistake or their own and that the entire points system is useless. I felt completely blown off.

I do agree that in the big picture anything on this forum is small scale. But within this forum even the smallest issue should be handled with care when brought to a mod, not shrugged off. The mods job is to only deal with this forum not comparing it to what issues may await us in our life off line.

After all in the big picture this whole forum is small potatoes.


I think the mods do a great job with most things but these small issues and how they are handled I believe could use some work.

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## Mike41793

I'm not going to comment my feelings until I get responses from the PM's i've sent. From my POV, i was within the rules, and i'm still getting an infraction. Doesn't make any sense to me. I'm going to refrain from posting anything positive or negative until i get an explanation.

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## Marissa@MKmorphs

What was the issue?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## Mike41793

The thread is in the QT room, it was locked but you can still read it.

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## KMG

When you are given a negative rep point or infraction and try to protest it with the mods only to get the response that it doesn't really matter.

I just don't feel the mods are giving the user the respect they deserve when they go through the process to contest something.

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## Stewart_Reptiles

> I just don't feel the mods are giving the user the respect they deserve when they go through the process to contest something.


Because you are giving mods the respect they deserve by stirring up the pot with this thread?  :Confused: 

It's easy when someone gets an infraction they can appeal it if they believe it is not deserved, and some people do a, then there are the others the ones that instead of using proper channels will try to stir the pot and make it a mod vs us the member type thread (not the first time it happens)

The bottom line mods are here to enforce rules however it's not always black or white there are a lot of grey areas and the staff (who volunteer their free time monitoring this site) is always trying their best to be fair to anyone, of course you can disagree and keep stirring the pot but I am not sure how this is gonna benefit anyone when the subject was already closed.

BTW




> 20. Participating at BP.net is not a right...it is a privilege.


And also this is not the place to discuss neg rep point there is a thread for that.

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ballpythonluvr (06-24-2013)

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## KMG

I did go through the channels when I needed to and got shrugged off. I also thought about sending these thoughts in a PM but felt they would again be shrugged off so I took it public.

Mike also has gone through that process and it was referred to "small potatoes" so far. I understand he has more emails out to the mods and I hope his concerns are given the proper care they should and that they are not again shrugged off. I don't care if the infractions are not overturned, I just want the user to be treated fairly and be given a actual reason if it is not. Something more than this issue is to small to be worried about.

I also knew about that thread. This post was more about the mods attitude toward the users not so much about the rep system.

I'm not trying to stir the pot. I'm trying to get a new attitude  for users issues.

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## Mike41793

KMG isn't stirring the pot, its an honest inquiry. The subject isn't closed until i get an explanation, which i'm still waiting for. 

No one's disrespecting or bashing the mods here, your post seems awfully defensive. I hope thats not how everyone else is reading this thread too.

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KMG (06-24-2013)

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## Kaorte

mhmm.. 

I'll give you a similar response that I see on this site when others bring issues up that they feel are important. 

"If you don't like it, then just leave". 

Yeah, feels good doesn't it.

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ballpythonluvr (06-24-2013)

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## Mike41793

> mhmm.. 
> 
> I'll give you a similar response that I see on this site when others bring issues up that they feel are important. 
> 
> "If you don't like it, then just leave". 
> 
> Yeah, feels good doesn't it.


I wouldn't leave over this issue. Its not THAT big of a deal. It IS big enough of a deal to annoy me because i feel like i'm being treated unfairly though. That's all.

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KMG (06-25-2013)

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## Kaorte

> I wouldn't leave over this issue. Its not THAT big of a deal. It IS big enough of a deal to annoy me because i feel like i'm being treated unfairly though. That's all.


Then keep it to PMs. You think you are being treated unfairly, I think you are getting what you deserve. 




Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 4 Beta

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ballpythonluvr (06-24-2013)

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## mackynz

> Because you are giving mods the respect they deserve by stirring up the pot with this thread?


Because you guys shouldn't be subject to scrutiny or ever question right?  How were you being disrespected in that post exactly?

They were making a valid point.

And Mike, I'm completely baffled by that infraction.  It's honestly the stupidest thing I think I've seen on here.  There are TONS of posts on here where people make jokes about less than legal or less than morally correct things.  It happens all the time, and if it's clearly a joke (As this was) and not personal to anyone posting than I don't get why everyone else doesn't get infractions for it.




> Dear Members,
> 
> It seems that maybe some people have forgotten what the Quarantine Room was designed for. (This is also for new people that come who ask to be let in without really knowing what it is.)
> 
> Some have expressed concern that an unpleasant thread in the QR is "ruining BP.net", however, the QR was placed here for all of those unpleasant threads that we don't want cluttering up the public spaces. For the people who wish to have the freedom to express themselves in such topics, it is there. For those who don't wish to see them, the QR can be turned off.
> 
> 
> The locking of threads in the QR would be an extremely rare event...simply because doing so would rather defeat its whole purpose.


Yeah, the rules still apply but the QR wasn't made for the pleasant thread.

But above all I really don't get why Mike is getting singled for this.  I can go back in just the last month and find loads of worse posts that weren't even in QT.

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KMG (06-25-2013)

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## mackynz

> Then keep it to PMs. You think you are being treated unfairly, I think you are getting what you deserve. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 4 Beta


Why can't he say something about it?  It's not like it's the first time the mods or admins have threatened or enacted infractions under sketchy circumstances, why should he need to keep it private?

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KMG (06-24-2013)

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## Mike41793

> Then keep it to PMs. You think you are being treated unfairly, I think you are getting what you deserve. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 4 Beta


Whoaaaa what did i do to piss you off?! I was within the rules, how's that "getting what i deserve"? 
I AM keeping it to PM's, i'm just waiting on a response. I haven't bashed anyone or shared all of my feelings on the situation yet. I didn't even make this post lol.

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KMG (06-25-2013)

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## Kaorte

> Why can't he say something about it?  It's not like it's the first time the mods or admins have threatened or enacted infractions under sketchy circumstances, why should he need to keep it private?


The initial thread is already public. It is not the forum members decision. It is the mods/admins decision. 

I just don't think a PERSONAL matter like this needs to be brought to the attention of the entire forum.

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ballpythonluvr (06-24-2013)

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## Kaorte

> Whoaaaa what did i do to piss you off?! I was within the rules, how's that "getting what i deserve"? 
> I AM keeping it to PM's, i'm just waiting on a response. I haven't bashed anyone or shared all of my feelings on the situation yet. I didn't even make this post lol.


What did you do? Let me count the ways.. 

You operate barely within the rules. If it was my decision (which it isn't) you would get infracted (or at least warnings) for much more than you actually do. 

You are the one who responded to this thread.

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ballpythonluvr (06-24-2013)

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## Stewart_Reptiles

> I wouldn't leave over this issue. Its not THAT big of a deal. It IS big enough of a deal to annoy me because i feel like i'm being treated unfairly though. That's all.


Must be a big deal since here we are again.

If you felt like you were treated  unfairly YOU could have appealed your infraction to one of the admins, instead YOU blew it out of proportion making a public scene which did not help the matter.

Now more of the same here still stuck on the same "not such a big deal issue" because you did not get the answer  YOU wanted in a timely fashion manner ( mind  you that some people do not seat around all day and can only address issues at the end of their work day)

So now, do you feel that if it had been addressed the proper way to start with we would not even be here?

Do you think this specific thread obviously started  on your behalf (wonder why YOU did not start it  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): ) is gonna go anywhere?

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_Aes_Sidhe_ (06-24-2013)

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## Mike41793

No judy already told me shes at work. I'm not bashing the mods for that either. I'm just saying that i'm waiting lol

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## KMG

> mhmm.. 
> 
> I'll give you a similar response that I see on this site when others bring issues up that they feel are important. 
> 
> "If you don't like it, then just leave". 
> 
> Yeah, feels good doesn't it.


Right back at you.

Lucky for us you run nothing. If I have something I feel is important I will always open my mouth. I'm no sheep.

By the way barely within the rules still is within the rules.

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_Raven01_ (06-24-2013),_STjepkes_ (06-28-2013)

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## KMG

> The initial thread is already public. It is not the forum members decision. It is the mods/admins decision. 
> 
> I just don't think a PERSONAL matter like this needs to be brought to the attention of the entire forum.


This thread was about the overall argument not that certain thread. 

I already said why I didn't send it in a PM. This should be and deserves to be public.

I'm not trying to attack or offend the mods. I just think things could and would be better if they were handled in a better way.

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## Mike41793

> What did you do? Let me count the ways.. 
> 
> You operate barely within the rules. If it was my decision (which it isn't) you would get infracted (or at least warnings) for much more than you actually do. 
> 
> You are the one who responded to this thread.


Barely Within the rules is still within the rules... 

Yea i responded, not really regarding anything pertaining to me specifically. 

Idk you disliked me so much. I have nothing against you...  :Confused:

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KMG (06-25-2013)

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## KMG

> Must be a big deal since here we are again.
> 
> If you felt like you were treated  unfairly YOU could have appealed your infraction to one of the admins, instead YOU blew it out of proportion making a public scene which did not help the matter.
> 
> Now more of the same here still stuck on the same "not such a big deal issue" because you did not get the answer  YOU wanted in a timely fashion manner ( mind  you that some people do not seat around all day and can only address issues at the end of their work day)
> 
> So now, do you feel that if it had been addressed the proper way to start with we would not even be here?
> 
> Do you think this specific thread obviously started  on your behalf (wonder why YOU did not start it ) is gonna go anywhere?


Mike had nothing to do with this thread, it was ALL me. It is also not directly in response to his infraction but it is lumped in the sum that annoys me.

Instead of attacking my thread and Mike's involvement why don't you help us to make this forum a better place. Bring something constructive to the table instead of excuses and side stepping the topic at hand.

I have gone through the proper channels and got SHRUGGED OFF and it is happening to Mike. It just so happens that he is the current victim, merely coincidence.

What I want to see is a change in the mods attitude toward ANY issue a user feels needs their attention. If they are not willing to do that they should not be a mod. 

I already said I don't care if the decisions get over turned only that the user gets a proper response for the mods decision.

I also understand people are at work and do not expect this problem to be quickly fixed, I just want it fixed. You don't seem to want that and would rather offer nothing of my thread for the betterment of the forum.

The fact you will not even acknowledge the topic here is part of the problem.

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## TheSnakeGeek

this is better than jersey shore.

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4theSNAKElady (06-25-2013),_Anya_ (06-24-2013),_liv_ (07-06-2013),_STjepkes_ (06-28-2013)

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## mackynz

> The initial thread is already public. It is not the forum members decision. It is the mods/admins decision. 
> 
> I just don't think a PERSONAL matter like this needs to be brought to the attention of the entire forum.


Because mods and admins should just do whatever they want right? No scrutiny, just apply the rules however they want?





> What did you do? Let me count the ways.. 
> 
> *You operate barely within the rules.* If it was my decision (which it isn't) you would get infracted (or at least warnings) for much more than you actually do. 
> 
> You are the one who responded to this thread.


Within the rules. You said it yourself.  It doesn't matter to what degree, the rules are the rules and if you are operating in them then you're operating within them.




> So now, do you feel that if it had been addressed the proper way to start with we would not even be here?


Probably not, since if it was addressed properly he wouldn't have an infraction and none of us would be here.  What rule was violated exactly?

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KMG (06-24-2013)

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## Kaorte

:Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

You guys can continue to think its cool to joke about hurting animals... but I don't think its cool, and I form opinions about people who so openly talk that way. 

Within the rules? Sure. Doesn't mean you should talk that way.

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## Mike41793

Steffe come on... You NEVER make any jokes about anything that could hurt someones feelers a bit?

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## KMG

> You guys can continue to think its cool to joke about hurting animals... but I don't think its cool, and I form opinions about people who so openly talk that way. 
> 
> Within the rules? Sure. Doesn't mean you should talk that way.


I guess you have never been to a comedy show. Don't ever go, you are far to sensitive. I guess you never watch movies that have jokes involving animals. The dog in "Something About Mary" ended up in a body cast. I guess you wrote the director a letter explaining your disgust? 

That thread is closed anyways. That is not the topic here.

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_STjepkes_ (06-28-2013)

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## wolfy-hound

I feel the mods have some leeway in enforcing the rules. If they felt an infraction was needed and assigned one, then fine. The person who got the infraction can appeal and ask for explanations. 

But then this thread doesn't seem like anything but someone acting butthurt. If a mod responded in a "less than professional" manner, then you can take it to the admin and complain about how you were treated. Saying that a single infraction is "small potatoes" doesn't seem like a big deal to me. It doesn't seem like it's some big insult nor rude, but then I didn't get the infraction and I(obviously) have not read the entire PM to see how it might come off.

But posting a thread with vague "The mods are super mean!" type stuff makes the OP look like a whiny baby. You talk to the mods via PM, and if they are rude to you, you can go to the admin. If the admin says it's not a big deal, then you can live with it or leave the site.

Skirting the rules IS within the rules, but if you are continually skirting the rules purposely, then yeah, I can see the mods slapping an infraction or warning on you. It's like a little kid holding a finger two inches from another's face and claiming "I'm not touching you!". 

Generally on a site, I go via PM about mods or admin behavior. If there's a pattern of lousy behavior from a mod, the admin or other mods should deal with it.

That's my $0.02. If the mods leave this thread, then folks will post on it, which is fine by me. But it's useless to jump up and down, spouting off opinions you've already stated, since you didn't see the PM referenced and you don't know what infractions were given by who.

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_dillan2020_ (06-24-2013),Kaorte (06-24-2013)

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## Kaorte

So BP.net is a comedy show now? Must have missed that memo where everything here needs to be turned into a joke. 

I'm sorry I don't come to BP.net for comedic relief. That does not mean I am sensitive, because I am not. I just think the comments made were in bad taste. It is not something I would say in this kind of environment. 

And no, I don't try try to make jokes in order to hurt peoples feelings... I try to be considerate.

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_alykoz_ (06-24-2013)

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## Mike41793

Ok i'm done. I'm gunna just go "get over it". If thats the final word from whom i was issued the infraction, so be it. Arguing obviously isn't going to change anything. I really think some of you people on here need to grow a thicker skin though.

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## mackynz

> So BP.net is a comedy show now? Must have missed that memo where everything here needs to be turned into a joke. 
> 
> I'm sorry I don't come to BP.net for comedic relief. That does not mean I am sensitive, because I am not. I just think the comments made were in bad taste. It is not something I would say in this kind of environment. 
> 
> And no, I don't try try to make jokes in order to hurt peoples feelings... I try to be considerate.


No one said everything is a joke? Where did you see that?  You might not come here for comic relief, but you also don't dictate what is posted here. There is no conceivable way anyone could know what you do and do not find funny or tasteful.  Just because you wouldn't say it doesn't mean someone else can't.  Why is everything about you? The way _you_ want it, what _you_ find offensive, what _you_ would or wouldn't say, what _you_ find tasteful.  Without being in your head or running every single post by you before it's posted there is no way to know what might upset you.  If you can't handle someone posting something that you might not like or you might not say yourself I would suggest you unplug the modem and stay far, far away from the internet. Or alternatively, hit the little x. Back out of the thread there's no need to keep reading what upsets you.

The White Knights and sheltered souls sure are coming out of the woodwork here  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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_Coleslaw007_ (06-25-2013),KMG (06-24-2013),_STjepkes_ (06-28-2013)

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## Kaorte

> No one said everything is a joke? Where did you see that?  You might not come here for comic relief, but you also don't dictate what is posted here. There is no conceivable way anyone could know what you do and do not find funny or tasteful.  Just because you wouldn't say it doesn't mean someone else can't.  Why is everything about you? The way _you_ want it, what _you_ find offensive, what _you_ would or wouldn't say, what _you_ find tasteful.  Without being in your head or running every single post by you before it's posted there is no way to know what might upset you.  If you can't handle someone posting something that you might not like or you might not say yourself I would suggest you unplug the modem and stay far, far away from the internet. Or alternatively, hit the little x. Back out of the thread there's no need to keep reading what upsets you.
> 
> The White Knights and sheltered souls sure are coming out of the woodwork here


This right here is the kind of attitude that makes me NEVER want to give ANY advice to ANY of you. 


Mods. What the heck is going on. Why is this even allowed to happen? Now suddenly I am not allowed to express my opinion because others will ASSume that I am making everything about myself? 

I'm out of here. Have fun bickering.

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## JLC

Wow...ok, let me see if I can address all the important posts.  

First off, Mike had nothing to do with this thread, and even though he commented in it, he TRIED to stay out of it by saying that he was waiting to hear back from me through the PM system that he properly used.  I appreciate that.  I don't believe he instigated this thread in any way, nor did he intend to use it as a platform to complain about the infraction. 

KMG didn't start this thread (as far as I understand it) in order to complain about the infractions either, but rather to say that "the mods" are being dismissive by calling the issue "small potatoes."  Well, first off, that wasn't "the mods" that was ME.  And that wasn't me trying to be dismissive, but rather trying to smooth things over a bit by putting things into perspective.  SERIOUSLY, if this is the hardest thing we have to deal with, then our lives are tremendously blessed, and it helps the blood pressure to keep that in mind.  

KMG says that we aren't giving proper consideration to complaints about infractions.  I have to ask how anyone could know one way or the other how much thought, discussion, and effort go into weighing infractions and appeals?  We don't post "minutes" of our mod discussions.  You don't see me setting aside my paying job for a time earlier today to deal with this ridiculous mess.  Do you have any idea how much time I've already devoted to this?  No, you don't.  But because I happened to NOT go the way you wanted me to go, you assume I must have dismissed it all without any thought?  Wrong. 

The admins and mods are human.  And therefore, there will always be slight inconsistencies in how things are dealt with.  We're not machines, computers, nor perfect beings.  But we work our asses off to be as fair as humanly possible.  NOT EVERYONE IS GOING TO AGREE THAT WE'RE FAIR OR RIGHT.  That is, and has always been the case.  There's nothing we can do about that.  

We try to be tolerant of different levels and types of humor.  But we all have our limits.  _And if a member consistently tests those limits, they WILL eventually cross a line, whether they believe that line was fairly placed or not._  I, and the other admins, are not shy about reversing a moderator's decision if we feel it was made in error.  We've done it before and we'll do it again.  And EVERY appeal is given sincere consideration.  Some cases are more easily decided than others, but once decided, we're firm on that decision, whether it is agreed with or not.  I'm not going to second guess my moderators unless I feel there is a very strong reason to do so.  In this case, I felt Mark acted within his role as a mod.  I'm sorry if some people are unhappy with that decision.  But making every individual happy is not our goal. 

I have more to say to Mike that I will be doing in private.  If he wishes to share any of that later, he is free to do so.

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_Anya_ (06-24-2013),ballpythonluvr (06-25-2013),_BHReptiles_ (06-25-2013),_Chkadii_ (06-24-2013),_dillan2020_ (06-24-2013),dr del (06-25-2013),_Emilio_ (06-25-2013),MarkS (06-25-2013),_Mephibosheth1_ (06-24-2013),rabernet (06-25-2013),_satomi325_ (06-24-2013),_STjepkes_ (06-28-2013)

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## mackynz

You mean the way you took up issue with us expressing ourselves.  Hypocrisy at it's finest right there.

No one said you can't share you're opinion but I'm also entitled to mine. I think that saying people shouldn't post something because you, wouldn't or might take issue with is is ridiculous.  We can't all bend to your whim and know what you approve of.    And I think that pretending the world is sunshine and rainbows doesn't do anyone any favors. The sooner you accept that the less horrifying it will be when you little bubble bursts.  Since you like to, as you put it "ASSume" things maybe you should try actually reading posts. Like the whole thing, because it's pretty clear you aren't.  No one said every post was supposed to be comedic, no one said you can't have an opinion.

And to Judy, what I don't get and what is that the "General Hostility" rule seems to keep getting thrown around.  Is it like how the cops can charge you with disorderly conduct just because they don't like something you're doing?  Because it really seems to be the "I'm mad at you but can't think of a reason" rule.

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## PitOnTheProwl

Okay, where for me to start?




> This should be and deserves to be public.
> 
> I'm not trying to attack or offend the mods. I just think things could and would be better if they were handled in a better way.


It is only the business of those involved, not the general public. 
I think there are a lot of things that could be "handled a better way" but I would be banned by now  :Wink:  We each have our own views BUT we are open to try and understand each other as MODs too.




> Because mods and admins should just do whatever they want right? No scrutiny, just apply the rules however they want?
> 
> Within the rules. You said it yourself.  It doesn't matter to what degree, the rules are the rules and if you are operating in them then you're operating within them.
> 
> Probably not, since if it was addressed properly he wouldn't have an infraction and none of us would be here.  What rule was violated exactly?


We do stay within the rules set before us, how about you go read them and think about how far YOU want to stir the pot. The boiling point can get here faster than you might like.




> Steffe come on... You NEVER make any jokes about anything that could hurt someones feelers a bit?


I didn't say anything in the other post and I tried to derail it, even though I do feel that I kind of failed my MOD duties  :Embarassed:  
I think the point is more knowing when to quit but you kept posting about it. YES it did get under my skin but I was trying to ignore you/it. You understand?




> You mean the way you took up issue with us expressing ourselves.  Hypocrisy at it's finest right there.
> 
> No one said you can't share you're opinion but I'm also entitled to mine. I think that saying people shouldn't post something because you, wouldn't or might take issue with is is ridiculous.  We can't all bend to your whim and know what you approve of.    And I think that pretending the world is sunshine and rainbows doesn't do anyone any favors. The sooner you accept that the less horrifying it will be when you little bubble bursts.  Since you like to, as you put it "ASSume" things maybe you should try actually reading posts. Like the whole thing, because it's pretty clear you aren't.  No one said every post was supposed to be comedic, no one said you can't have an opinion.
> 
> And to Judy, what I don't get and what is that the "General Hostility" rule seems to keep getting thrown around.  Is it like how the cops can charge you with disorderly conduct just because they don't like something you're doing?  Because it really seems to be the "I'm mad at you but can't think of a reason" rule.


Yes, you are now a prime "disorderly conduct" patron :Cool:  Keep stirring the pot and disrupting the flow of everyone else's well being. Get the point? 
Might be better if you sign off for the night and cool your jets.

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ballpythonluvr (06-25-2013),Kaorte (06-25-2013)

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## mackynz

> We do stay within the rules set before us, how about you go read them and think about how far YOU want to stir the pot. The boiling point can get here faster than you might like.


I have, and I've had to quote them back to a mod before to show them they weren't being violated.  Then they dropped the issue.  That's my point.





> Yes, you are now a prime "disorderly conduct" patron Keep stirring the pot and disrupting the flow of everyone else's well being. Get the point? 
> Might be better if you sign off for the night and cool your jets.


And thanks for confirming this.  I figured you're out to prove yourself as a new mod in light of recent events.  That or a power trip, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say proving yourself.  Guess I was was right. 

*Holds out wrists*  Cuff me officer.

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## PitOnTheProwl

> And thanks for confirming this.  I figured you're out to prove yourself as a new mod in light of recent events.  Guess I was was right. 
> 
> *Holds out wrists*  Cuff me officer.


Maybe you don't know me yet, I could care less about what *ANYONE* here thinks of me. Follow me on FB and learn little one.
I respect this site and what it brings to the www. so I have learned to control myself here.

If I was out to prove myself, you wouldn't be able to post for a while. I am open minded and really love a good debate and I can always take it over the line in the right places.


BTW, you might want to read ALL of the TOU: 21. All members are responsible for reading and understanding the full content of the TOS and Site Rules. The Administrators (and their staff) reserve the right to determine what constitutes proper use of Ball-Pythons.net. They have final judgment on whether or not the Site Rules and/or Terms of Service have been violated and what the consequences of said violations will be.

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## KMG

Thank you Judy. I know it is a smaller issue but I just feel it should still be treated as it is important. I think we are blessed with only small issues here and I am thankful for that and this site in general. I truly am glad it is here and to be a part of it. I just want it to be the best place possible and don't think it is your job to decide what is small or large to a concerned user. I can guarantee that the things many people here find stressful would not even make a mark on my chart. Just because I don't think its a big issue does not mean I don't think it should be addressed. 

I don't have a personal problem with anybody that is admin or a mod. I just had a problem with the initial response. I think it would have been better by plainly stating that the mods decision was sound and you backed his play. Not saying that it was small potatoes. To me that makes it seem as if not much effort or thought went into it. I am sure that you do bust your ass here and I understand you have a real job. I have no problem with anybodies work output here. I think overall the site is moderated very well.

Pit, I don't see why this could not be discussed like this. It does not seem like anything here should be private and I wanted to include everybody interested. It is not exactly G14 classified material.

While it appears not many are interested or have experienced the feeling of bringing a issue to the higher ups and not getting an appropriate answer or at least an explanation I still wanted to post my thoughts on the issue and try to find a better way to handle issues like this.

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mackynz (06-24-2013)

----------


## mackynz

> Maybe you don't know me yet, I could care less about what *ANYONE* here thinks of me.



So power trip then.





> If I was out to prove myself, you wouldn't be able to post for a while.


So threats now? That's what this site is now?  Mods issuing threats, not even over PM this time!

Here's a fun one, what on earth makes you think you could stop me from posting?  An IP ban? Go for it.  Changing my external IP address wouldn't be hard at all.  I know it's easy to push a button to ban some one but how does that work when the person know the intricacies of what that button actually does?  IT is what I do so if you want to threaten me, go ahead but its not a very good threat.

----------


## PitOnTheProwl

> Pit, I don't see why this could not be discussed like this. It does not seen like anything here should be private and wanted to include everybody interested. It is not exactly G14 classified material.


I understand what you are saying BUT I personally think infractions should only be handled between the one who issued it and the one who got it. Take it to other MODS but not to other members. I kind of look at it like "work", would you want me chastising you in front of your co-workers? Also I tend to get a little more "blunt" in PMs but I try to make sure we understand each other. You get where I'm coming from?

----------


## mackynz

> I understand what you are saying BUT I personally think infractions should only be handled between the one who issued it and the one who got it. Take it to other MODS but not to other members. I kind of look at it like "work", would you want me chastising you in front of your co-workers? Also I tend to get a little more "blunt" in PMs but I try to make sure we understand each other. You get where I'm coming from?


I see your point, but if someone feels it's getting out of hand they should be allowed to say something.  And that won't happen without members communicating.  If you made your decision and you stand by it I don't get what your issue is.

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## PitOnTheProwl

> So power trip then..


No, I live my life for me and my family. Get over it.







> So threats now? That's what this site is now?  Mods issuing threats, not even over PM this time!
> 
> Here's a fun one, what on earth makes you think you could stop me from posting?  An IP ban? Go for it.  Changing my external IP address wouldn't be hard at all.  I know it's easy to push a button to ban some one but how does that work when the person know the intricacies of what that button actually does?  IT is what I do so if you want to threaten me, go ahead but its not a very good threat.


Really?? Whats your next card to play in this game?? You asked a question and cant handle the answer I gave you. 
Now you want to violate: 5. ONE account per member. You may not have more than one member-name/ID for your private use. If you have a member-name/ID already and wish to change it, you must notify an Admin before making any such changes and explain why you feel such a change is necessary. Not all name-change requests will be honored, but names changed without a prior request and permission will automatically be disabled, and could possibly result in the original account also being suspended either temporarily or permanently. Member names must comply with the Family Friendly rules. Member names may NOT incude web addresses, including but not limited to "www." and ".com" prefixes and suffixes

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## mackynz

> No, I live my life for _me_ and my family. Get over it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really?? Whats your next card to play in this game?? You asked a question and cant handle the answer I gave you. 
> Now you want to violate: 5. ONE account per member. You may not have more than one member-name/ID for your private use. If you have a member-name/ID already and wish to change it, you must notify an Admin before making any such changes and explain why you feel such a change is necessary. Not all name-change requests will be honored, but names changed without a prior request and permission will automatically be disabled, and could possibly result in the original account also being suspended either temporarily or permanently. Member names must comply with the Family Friendly rules. Member names may NOT incude web addresses, including but not limited to "www." and ".com" prefixes and suffixes


Whoa now, who said anything about a second account?  Or were you just assuming that?

And you didn't give me an answer, you gave me a threat.

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## PitOnTheProwl

> Whoa now, who said anything about a second account?  Or were you just assuming that?
> 
> And you didn't give me an answer, you gave me a threat.


Your statements are here to read, reread them please.

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## mackynz

> Your statements are here to read, reread them please.


That they are.  Does that mean you're asking for a crash course in Internet Protocol or...?  I mean I can explain it if you want but I don't know how well it would work.  It takes time to learn about. Nowhere was a second account mentioned. But I'm sure you can quote where it was for me. Maybe you should try reading it?

It's just ridiculous that it's to the point where if your post doesn't make some one feel warm and fuzzy inside it's considered hostile.

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## KMG

> I understand what you are saying BUT I personally think infractions should only be handled between the one who issued it and the one who got it. Take it to other MODS but not to other members. I kind of look at it like "work", would you want me chastising you in front of your co-workers? Also I tend to get a little more "blunt" in PMs but I try to make sure we understand each other. You get where I'm coming from?


I do.

I'm not trying to fight for anyone to get a infraction over turned, only that in the future all site staff more carefully consider how little their response can make a user feel without intending to. I'm sure Judy was not trying to make anybody feel like they or their problems were not important but I think that is how it came off. That is my issue, nothing more. Unfortunately Mike's issue is most recent and is getting referred to, that is all. Like I said earlier that is only coincidence.

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## PitOnTheProwl

> I do.
> 
> I'm not trying to fight for anyone to get a infraction over turned, only that in the future all site staff more carefully consider how little their response can make a user feel without intending to. I'm sure Judy was not trying to make anybody feel like they or their problems were not important but I think that is how it came off. That is my issue, nothing more. Unfortunately Mike's issue is most recent and is getting referred to, that is all. Like I said earlier that is only coincidence.


You ALL also have to remember that "WE" have real jobs and pop in from time to time. It is not easy to handle business here in a full length conversation or explanation when most of us probably shouldn't be on here at those times anyway. Plus, we are human and I know I tend to re-direct at times so when I am frustrated with something else I try to keep it short here.

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## mackynz

> You ALL also have to remember that "WE" have real jobs and pop in from time to time. It is not easy to handle business here in a full length conversation or explanation when most of us probably shouldn't be on here at those times anyway. Plus, we are human and I know I tend to re-direct at times so when I am frustrated with something else I try to keep it short here.


You chose to accept your post.  A lot of us have full time jobs, school or both at the same time and are human as well.

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## KMG

> You ALL also have to remember that "WE" have real jobs and pop in from time to time. It is not easy to handle business here in a full length conversation or explanation when most of us probably shouldn't be on here at those times anyway. Plus, we are human and I know I tend to re-direct at times so when I am frustrated with something else I try to keep it short here.


I do understand that. I would rather wait a couple days to get a good answer over getting a fast answer. I have no problem with any of the staff waiting until they have the time to make a proper response. I think other users would feel the same.

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## PitOnTheProwl

> You chose to accept your post.  A lot of us have full time jobs, school or both at the same time and are human as well.


No one was speaking to you, learn to read the quotes :Wink: 

- - - Updated - - -




> I think other users would feel the same.


I can think of one right now that doesnt :ROFL:  :ROFL:

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## KMG

> I can think of one right now that doesnt


Ha, I said others, probably most, but not all.

I think the better answer is better for business and it would stop threads like this and others in the like.

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## PitOnTheProwl

> Ha, I said others, probably most, but not all.
> 
> I think the better answer is better for business and it would stop threads like this and others in the like.


If everyone remembered this is a family forum, that would be best.
I think the worst thing a kid should see/read here would be a feeding post and nothing more. But that's just me.

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## mackynz

> No one was speaking to you, learn to read the quotes
> 
> - - - Updated - - -


Did I say you were? I was speaking to you. You'll notice this is how your conversation with KMG started.  I realize it was just a dodge on the IP addressing thing though  :Good Job:

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## Raven01

You all really should drop this.
You'll notice I have an infraction myself.  And, admittedly I earned that.  A case of hitting "submit post" before thinking it thoroughly through.  I will say though, the person I had a go at did not receive any infraction/warning despite having on several prior occasions being very hostile and harassing, neither did the person that threatened physical violence and openly admitted doing so in a thread obviously monitored as Mods stated they were monitoring it and later locked and removed.  Without excuse I was wrong and deserving of my reprimand.  It does seem fishy that identical instances by others do not result in comparable consequences.
Clearly, either rules are not being applied consistently or, certain individuals have some form of diplomatic immunity. Perhaps, you could try buying more shirts.

No amount of discussion is likely to change how things either are or appear to be.  It will just become more adversarial as it continues.
What does exist is an opportunity for improvement.
In suggestions of things like a moderator feedback thread that allows user to post but, mods to read.  This would allow a user to present why they believe a judgement was in error and then allow the mods to discuss it amongst themselves without adding unpleasant threads and clutter to the site.
And, a link to that thread and the ToS in official mod related mails to users.
It could be used for positive feedback as well.  For instance DrDel has given me a warning and was wonderfully professional.  There is a prime candidate for mentoring new Mods.

If such a thread is created just a word of advice.  Your Mods are just people like yourselves and capable of having an off day just like anyone else.  It can be a thankless job and, mixing that with an off day can lead to a heavy-handed call.  So, take a day or two giving both yourself and the person in question time to cool jets and then make your case.

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_Aes_Sidhe_ (06-24-2013),_Anya_ (06-24-2013)

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## I-KandyReptiles

This is ridiculous..

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_Anya_ (06-24-2013),_BHReptiles_ (06-25-2013),_Buttons_ (06-25-2013),_Coleslaw007_ (06-25-2013),_liv_ (07-06-2013),mackynz (06-24-2013),_MrLang_ (06-25-2013),_satomi325_ (06-24-2013)

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## dillan2020

There needs to be a rule about being a complete d-bag.

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## KMG

> What does exist is an opportunity for improvement.


That is all I want.

We do have the Reputation Thread but its not exactly what you suggested but its a start.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ion-Discussion

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## Kodieh

My only problem is I feel it was a bit of an over reaction to what was said. However, I get that a leadership decision was made and it's poor form to contradict your staff. That's management science 101.

Its five points and I now have a different definition of the QT room. That's what I take from this. Blaming the next one up on the totem pole is only satisfying until the next time you need to blame them. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

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## Kodieh

> There needs to be a rule about being a complete d-bag.


Infraction! Infraction over here! 

See? No one cares. 

I love Jurassic Park. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

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## PitOnTheProwl

Well you all have fun, I'm off to spend time with my wife and kid.
We all need to realize there is a thing you can do before you hit "Submit Reply" and that is to think about what you are posting. I delete and edit a lot before you all get to see it.
Good night everyone.




> I realize it was just a dodge on the IP addressing thing though


I didn't dodge, I informed you of the rules. How you choose to handle them and the actions you take are yours and yours alone. You can change your IP and create another account but IF I remember right, its a permanent ban. That is your choice.

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_Anya_ (06-24-2013)

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## PitOnTheProwl

> Infraction! Infraction over here! 
> 
> See? No one cares. 
> 
> I love Jurassic Park.


Really???
Okay, everyone go to the bathroom and then its off to bed.  :Slam head:   :Slam head:

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_Kodieh_ (06-24-2013)

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## satomi325

SMH............ What the heck is going on these days?! 

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

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_Anya_ (06-24-2013),_Coleslaw007_ (06-25-2013),_TheSnakeGeek_ (06-24-2013)

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## JLC

> SMH............ What the heck is going on these days?!


Meh...just the full moon.  Maybe a "super moon" brings out the twitchy nerves a little more than usual.  :Razz:

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_Aes_Sidhe_ (06-24-2013),_Anya_ (06-24-2013),_Mephibosheth1_ (06-24-2013),_satomi325_ (06-24-2013)

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## Kodieh

I'd like to believe I'm consistently a PITA. At least you know to watch me all the time. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

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## wilomn

Wow, what a lot of pansies. Staff makes staff decisions. If you don't like them, have complained about them and don't like the answer then do one of two things: suck it up and move on trying not to find yourself in the same set of circumstances in the future or get your pail and shovel and go find a new sandbox to play in.

Mike, I have no clue what you've done now, but I sort of doubt you were really trying to cause trouble. Were you? I know you'll answer me honestly and that is all I need to know.

I am pretty sure that I'm the most infracted active member on this site. I've questioned one or two and gotten answers that were satisfying even if they were not my preference. Staff does a good job here and owe NO ONE ANYTHING other than their, the staff's, personal best. If you don't like it, your two choices are written out above.

Alla y'all are making me laugh. Small potatoes indeed.

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_Aes_Sidhe_ (06-24-2013),ballpythonluvr (06-25-2013),_liv_ (07-06-2013),MarkS (06-24-2013),_MrLang_ (06-25-2013),rabernet (06-25-2013),_rlditmars_ (06-25-2013),Stewart_Reptiles (06-24-2013)

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## KMG

wilomn, thanks for the two options. I forgot you were in charge. Next time I will come to you. 

You are right that the staff only should do their best, but that is not what I feel it was. You missed the point of the post but I bet you didn't read it all. Its the suck it up and take it attitude that is turning America into a nation of fat opinionless sheep. Blindly following each other around. No thanks. I may bring up a small problem but a pansy I am not.


Mike was being Mike, nothing more.

So you are lurking Deb. Glad to see how you feel the users should act towards the staff. Just shut up and listen. Your all human and make mistakes I guess it would be better for you if nobody had the nerve to call them out. Its a shame you would support a post that tells users to leave instead of speak their mind on an issue with the forum. I Guess in your eyes its prefect.

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## Mephibosheth1

I'm on my third bag of popcorn right now....

"Will Pit on the Prowl return to have the last word??

Will wilomn respond to KMG's criticism??

And will the supermoon wreck more havoc on our forum??

TUNE IN later for another episode of....SMALL POTATOES!!!!!!"

 :ROFL:  :ROFL:  :ROFL:  :ROFL:  :ROFL:  :ROFL:  :ROFL:  :ROFL:  :ROFL:  :ROFL:  :ROFL:  :ROFL:  :ROFL:  :ROFL:  :ROFL:  :ROFL:  :ROFL:

----------

_Anya_ (06-25-2013),ballpythonluvr (06-25-2013),_BHReptiles_ (06-25-2013),_Buttons_ (06-25-2013),_Chkadii_ (06-25-2013),_I-KandyReptiles_ (06-24-2013),Kaorte (06-25-2013),Kensa (06-25-2013),KMG (06-24-2013),_liv_ (07-06-2013),_satomi325_ (06-24-2013),wolfy-hound (06-25-2013)

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## SlitherinSisters

> Wow, what a lot of pansies. Staff makes staff decisions. If you don't like them, have complained about them and don't like the answer then do one of two things: suck it up and move on trying not to find yourself in the same set of circumstances in the future or get your pail and shovel and go find a new sandbox to play in.
> 
> Mike, I have no clue what you've done now, but I sort of doubt you were really trying to cause trouble. Were you? I know you'll answer me honestly and that is all I need to know.
> 
> I am pretty sure that I'm the most infracted active member on this site. I've questioned one or two and gotten answers that were satisfying even if they were not my preference. Staff does a good job here and owe NO ONE ANYTHING other than their, the staff's, personal best. If you don't like it, your two choices are written out above.
> 
> Alla y'all are making me laugh. Small potatoes indeed.


You always make me giggle, especially in threads like this since I'm pretty sure you have made every one of us infract you at one time or another  :Razz:  You ruffled my feathers pretty good when I first joined the staff team, but I still like ya  :Wink:  



As it was mentioned we are human and we have different opinions as to what is or isn't ok. Sometimes the 'right choice' isn't clear and a judgment call must be made. None of us like handing out infractions, but unfortunately we are conformists and follow the rules, including, but not limited to, enforcing the rules. 


I did want to point this out in case anyone needs justification for staff decisions, now or in the future. This is right out of our TOS... 




> 6. Communications. You agree that your activities on the Site (including without limitation submission of any Threads to Forums) will not:
> 
> .......
> 
> C. transmit content the Admins consider to be disruptive, unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, pornographic, sexually explicit, hateful, racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable;

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wilomn (06-24-2013)

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## wilomn

> wilomn, thanks for the two options. I forgot you were in charge. Next time I will come to you. 
> 
> You are right that the staff only should do their best, but that is not what I feel it was. You missed the point of the post but I bet you didn't read it all. Its the suck it up and take it attitude that is turning America into a nation of fat opinionless sheep. Blindly following each other around. No thanks. I may bring up a small problem but a pansy I am not.
> 
> 
> Mike was being Mike, nothing more.


Your ASSumption is making YOU into something here. I did go read the entire thread. I don't think now, and I didn't before I read it, that Mike deserved it. I think Mark made a mistake, but that is MY opinion, not his and while I do think he was wrong, it's not worth fighting over. You go right ahead and fight every little thing that irritates you. I don't have time for that crap, sometimes I just suck it up and move on. Infractions of this nature are really meaningless in the big picture. They cause no harm, have no ramifications, are not even an embarrassment unless you're really thin skinned in the hiney region, which Mike is most assuredly not.

You feel staff didn't do their best and have registered that opinion. I think Mark did his best and I disagree with his decision. I have stated that and that's good enough for me. Why you need to make some massive change to be happy is beyond my ken, but I am ok with that too; I don't care, nothing personal, what you think, but I do think you should be able to state your opinion without negating mine simply because it does not dovetail with yours. I think you're wrong, but that doesn't matter because neither of US are staff.

We've made our opinions known, staff will or will not take them into consideration in the future and the worlds spins on neither knowing nor caring what either of us think.

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## DooLittle

> Mike was being Mike, nothing more.


This much is true. ^   Now that I'm caught up...  I dont think Mike had any ill intent.

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## wilomn

> Its a shame you would support a post that tells users to leave instead of speak their mind on an issue with the forum. I Guess in your eyes its prefect.


My my my, your ASSumption quota must have been exceeded by now, neh?

Why does it have to be YOUR way? You've stated your opinion, staff has stated theirs, Staff wins everytime in this game and YOU, me, Mike, everyone knows that IF they've read the TOS.

So, what's your real beef? That it's not your way? That's rather narcissistic of you isn't it? I mean, there are thousands of members here who probably wish it was their way when they disagree with staff, yet you seem to be the only one who can't seem to understand that it just ain't gonna happen. What's up with that? I always thought you were pretty smart.

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## KMG

> Your ASSumption is making YOU into something here. I did go read the entire thread. I don't think now, and I didn't before I read it, that Mike deserved it. I think Mark made a mistake, but that is MY opinion, not his and while I do think he was wrong, it's not worth fighting over. You go right ahead and fight every little thing that irritates you. I don't have time for that crap, sometimes I just suck it up and move on. Infractions of this nature are really meaningless in the big picture. They cause no harm, have no ramifications, are not even an embarrassment unless you're really thin skinned in the hiney region, which Mike is most assuredly not.
> 
> You feel staff didn't do their best and have registered that opinion. I think Mark did his best and I disagree with his decision. I have stated that and that's good enough for me. Why you need to make some massive change to be happy is beyond my ken, but I am ok with that too; I don't care, nothing personal, what you think, but I do think you should be able to state your opinion without negating mine simply because it does not dovetail with yours. I think you're wrong, but that doesn't matter because neither of US are staff.
> 
> We've made our opinions known, staff will or will not take them into consideration in the future and the worlds spins on neither knowing nor caring what either of us think.


So now I'm a pansy and an ass because I spoke my mind. Are you challenging the staff to see if they pick up your not so clever attempt at calling me names directly after Slitherinsisters quoted that rule? You say its not personal but you make comments like that. Its no wonder why you are the most infracted user. 

It matters none to me if you agree with me or what I say but I think you could keep some of
 your opinion to yourself. I glad your ok with the staff making a mistake but not needing to own up to it. You basically just said Mark messed up but that was the best he could do.

I don't think it should be my way. I was hoping we could find a better way. I'm open to suggestions on what that may be. Just because the staff always wins does not make it right. And only a small number of staff has said anything here. 

This is really not how I saw this thread going and was far less positive then I hoped.

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## Kodieh

Personal opinion, Mark felt it went to far when in our opinion it could go further than it was allowed to. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

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## Stewart_Reptiles

> So you are lurking Deb. Glad to see how you feel the users should act towards the staff. Just shut up and listen. Your all human and make mistakes I guess it would be better for you if nobody had the nerve to call them out. Its a shame you would support a post that tells users to leave instead of speak their mind on an issue with the forum. I Guess in your eyes its prefect.


It's Deborah not Deb

I will say it again you could have handle that matter privately raising your concerns to the admins, instead YOU chose to handle it very differently and for no other reason than create drama. 

Now regardless of the points that were or will be made you will keep complaining and I am not sure what you want to be done here, which leaves us with 3 options and not 2 like Wes suggested 

1/ Get over it and move on there are more important things in life (well at least to some of us)

2/ Keep on complaining (just because the internet is serious business)

3/ Find a place better suited for your needs (not the first time I am making this recommendation to a member)

Now the choice is yours to make not mine I am fine with either one.

Again being a member here is a *priviledge* not a right.

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wilomn (06-24-2013)

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## wilomn

> So now I'm a pansy and an ass because I spoke my mind. Are you challenging the staff to see if they pick up your not so clever attempt at calling me names directly after Slitherinsisters quoted that rule? You say its not personal but you make comments like that. Its no wonder why you are the most infracted user. 
> 
> It matters none to me if you agree with me or what I say but I think you could keep some of your opinion to yourself. I glad your ok with the staff making a mistake but not needing to own up to it. You basically just said Mark messed up but that was the best he could do.


You are if that's what you take from it, I merely expressed my opinion. I challenge no one here. Were I to call you a name, you would not ask if I had called you a name unless you were really really stupid. As I expressed, your opinion means zip to me, so continuing to express it to me is a waste of your time, unless you aim to make me giggle. In that you succeed admirably. Butthurt is often humourous to those of us not feeling the pain. No one, other than you, in this post or any of my posts has said they shouldn't own up to a mistake. I, personally, think Mark made a mistake. That's my opinion, but means nothing in the big picture. Same for you. Get over it, we don't count in this.

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## mackynz

I was PMing Mike earlier and he said he had only meant it as a joke, it wasn't meant to be taken seriously.  I think most of us who read his posts know that.  He also said he was taking a break for awhile, I don't know if he will/how long or if he already started.  As I've said, I disagree with the choice Mark made there.

I may be inclined to join him.  Yeah the back and forth between Pitt and I was out of hand.  When I'm being accused of something I flat out didn't say by a mod I'm not just going to lay down and take it.  They shouldn't be able to make threats based on things the made up (In this case saying I claimed I would make another account).  That's ridiculous and to me shouldn't be acceptable behavior for a mod.  Even after I referred them back to my post all I got was a changed subject.

To me mods shouldn't be able to just make things up, to say they are targeting people that's just poor management.  But it's their jungle and if that's how they want to run it we always have the option to leave.

I know that I can be abrasive, I have no problem admitting it.  I also don't have a problem with any member on here. At the end of the day, this is the internet and I see no point in harboring ill will based the back and forth of us all pretending to be keyboard warriors.

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## wilomn

> I was PMing Mike earlier and he said he had only meant it as a joke, it wasn't meant to be taken seriously.  I think most of us who read his posts know that.  He also said he was taking a break for awhile, I don't know if he will/how long or if he already started.  As I've said, I disagree with the choice Mark made there.
> 
> I may be inclined to join him.  Yeah the back and forth between Pitt and I was out of hand.  When I'm being accused of something I flat out didn't say by a mod I'm not just going to lay down and take it.  They shouldn't be able to make threats based on things the made up (In this case saying I claimed I would make another account).  That's ridiculous and to me shouldn't be acceptable behavior for a mod.  Even after I referred them back to my post all I got was a changed subject.
> 
> To me mods shouldn't be able to just make things up, to say they are targeting people that's just poor management.  But it's their jungle and if that's how they want to run it we always have the option to leave.
> 
> I know that I can be abrasive, I have no problem admitting it.  I also don't have a problem with any member on here. At the end of the day, this is the internet and I see no point in harboring ill will based the back and forth of us all pretending to be keyboard warriors.


Were I staff, I would have said the same thing Pit did. Your inferences were impossible to miss. You know that too.

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## mackynz

> Were I staff, I would have said the same thing Pit did. Your inferences were impossible to miss. You know that too.


I won't deny I was talking about circumventing a ban in response to his threatening it.  But not in the manner he repeatedly tried to tell me I did.  No new account making would have taken place.  But Pitt went even so far as to tell me to re-read my own post after accusing me of the wrong thing.  I'm just saying if you're going to accuse me of something and claim I said something is it too much to ask that it's the right thing?

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## MarkS

This all started out because I felt that both Mike41793 and Kodieh stepped over the line by repeatedly posting something that I and others felt was offensive.  I gave them both infractions, they disagreed, PM's were sent, discussions had. That really should have been the end of it.  

I still think that Mike41793 and Kodieh are fine and valued members of our forum, I just wish they'd spent a little more time thinking about how what they'd written would be interpreted by others before hitting the 'send reply' button.  Can we please all get back to talking about snakes?

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## wilomn

> This all started out because I felt that both Mike41793 and Kodieh stepped over the line by repeatedly posting something that I and others felt was offensive.  I gave them both infractions, they disagreed, PM's were sent, discussions had. That really should have been the end of it.  
> 
> I still think that Mike41793 and Kodieh are fine and valued members of our forum, I just wish they'd spent a little more time thinking about how what they'd written would be interpreted by others before hitting the 'send reply' button.  Can we please all get back to talking about snakes?


Actually Mark, I have to disagree with this. While you and others thought it went over the line, I and others did not. We were not asked for our opinions, so unless those others were mods who stated their opinions to you prior to your dinging Mike, I think that argument is weak to the point of being worthless.

Also, was Mike warned prior to his ding? Does it not say that he should have been? If he wasn't, shouldn't you rescind it since the sites rules were, accidentally, not followed?

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_Coleslaw007_ (06-25-2013),DooLittle (06-24-2013)

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## wilomn

> I won't deny I was talking about circumventing a ban in response to his threatening it.  But not in the manner he repeatedly tried to tell me I did.  No new account making would have taken place.  But Pitt went even so far as to tell me to re-read my own post after accusing me of the wrong thing.  I'm just saying if you're going to accuse me of something and claim I said something is it too much to ask that it's the right thing?


Six of one, half a dozen of the other. You wanted him to think you would, he did, you succeeded, so did he.

Perhaps letting it go would be appropriate here and further allusions to violations of rules should be avoided unless one's exit from the site is immanent.

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PitOnTheProwl (06-25-2013)

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## mackynz

> I still think that Mike41793 and Kodieh are fine and valued members of our forum, I just wish they'd spent a little more time thinking about how what they'd written would be interpreted by others before hitting the 'send reply' button.


I'm not saying we should blindly post without thinking. But how on Earth are we supposed to know how others are going to interpret something?  It's entirely up to the person and will change from person to person.  I mean look at this thread, a number have people have come out on both sides.  How are we supposed to be in people's heads?

Even then it changes on whether or not you know the person posting.  From seeing other posts Mike has made I felt fairly confident he did not desire to consume or punt any imaginary small dogs.

I mean we have to use our best judgement, and it's skewed because it's _our_ best judgement. If we think it's funny, we are biased. I can't know what random thing may offend a random member.  I don't mean this post as the start of an argument, and will refuse to take it in that direction if any replies go there. I have no interest in starting anything with you Mark, I just think that the above might be kind of what happened here.





> Six of one, half a dozen of the other. You wanted him to think you would, he did, you succeeded, so did he.
> 
> Perhaps letting it go would be appropriate here and further allusions to violations of rules should be avoided unless one's exit from the site is immanent.


Confound it man, why are you always right?

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## KMG

Wow Super Moderator Deborah. I guess I really hit a nerve. Sorry for insulting you by making this thread. I did not make this thread to start drama and honesty can not believe the kind of negative response it has gotten. 

I still don't see why its such a big deal if we discuss something like this in public. I know better now and will not try to change the way things are done here.

Y'all have made it very clear that the forum does not need me and I think its ridiculous that we have mods that can have such a poor attitude toward members. 

Being a member is a privilege. I get that. Is being a super moderator your right? That's how you are acting. Your a grown woman that can not discuss such a simple thing without becoming defensive when it wasn't directed toward you and other than you being a mod had nothing to do with you. 

I know the forum will be just fine without Mike and I but I hope you never leave for it would surely crumble.

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## Kodieh

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=rY0Wx...%3DrY0WxgSXdEE

Stick a fork in him! But, seriously, someone is WRONG on the internet! 

Any way, I do disagree but I do also understand. And that's a maturity thing, something I'm sure Mike will come to...never. But, hey, we're down one and up a party. Where's the champagne? Although, I started drinking at lunch. So, I got a head start. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

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_liv_ (07-06-2013)

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## dillan2020

I think the mods would welcome a nice discussion about how things work and how to improve things. but this whole thread seemed more like a slap in the face then it did any discussion.

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## arialmt

"I've got a bad feeling about this." - Various

I'm glad that thread got locked. It made my gut turn.

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## Kodieh

Didn't Han Solo say that? 

Anyway, the mods will be happy to know I've thought twice-- actually three times in the response I wished to give to the posts above. 

Moving on. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

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## KMG

Well dillan2020 that was not my intention and thought this was actually going to be productive. I was very wrong.

Arialmt you can't be serious?

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## mackynz

> Also, was Mike warned prior to his ding? Does it not say that he should have been? If he wasn't, shouldn't you rescind it since the sites rules were, accidentally, not followed?


Not sure what the rules say about it, but according to the PM, him he received no warning. Just thought I would throw that out there since he's not here.

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## I-KandyReptiles

I'm just going to say that I don't think mike should have received an infraction. 

I hope I don't get one for my opinion but I feel Mark acted impulsively and acted too harsh. He let personal feelings get in the way of moderating IMO.

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## Mephibosheth1

I think the thing to remember here is that, while the forum is people driven, it is not really a democracy.  We agree to be moderated my the mod team, and basically agree to take whatever they give us.

Ive been on other forums where I got my feathers ruffled due to "infractions" that were not warranted, and quickly learned that speaking up about them didn't get me anywhere.  But, that's the way things roll on an Internet forum.

(hopefully I won't get my head chewed off now lol)

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_Anya_ (06-25-2013)

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## satomi325

> Not sure what the rules say about it, but according to the PM, him he received no warning. Just thought I would throw that out there since he's not here.


I've never got a warning prior to the one infraction(currently expired) I ever got. I said 'shiz(t) just got real'.

So I'm assuming giving warnings aren't the norm?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

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## Coleslaw007

While I realize my and other's opinions are of little consequence, you may add me to the list of people who feel Mike shouldn't have received an infraction. It really seemed to me that MarkS' opinion was strongly biased. I saw nothing that sounded like promotion of animal abuse.

Sent from microwave via Tapatalk ll

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## rlditmars

I have read the entire thread before posting so that I wasn't just responding without having done so. This is my opinion and as was already said, the world will keep spinning, even after I announce it. 

Some kids have taken the time to set up a great yard to play in. They have invited us over to play and we find many wonderful things to do in their yard. Keep in mind it's their yard. Now the longer we stay and play, the more we notice the stuff in the yard. Perhaps the grass is longer than we like. Perhaps we stepped in some dog poop becuase we didn't see it. If it was our yard we would have picked that up, but it's their yard so it wasn't picked up. We ask the kids if they will cut the grass or pick up the dog poop. It seems like a perfectly reasonable response because we don't like poop on our shoes. We ask, don't tell, because it's their yard. After we ask, they may cut the grass or they may not. They may pick up the poop they may not. Why? Because it's their yard. Are you seeing a theme here?

Some people would like things different, I get it. Some people have expressed that, I heard it. Some people have even said that the punishments are not always equal, I'll ackowledge that. I won't mention names because that would be indiscreet (KMG). Guess what? It's not our yard. If I don't like what's going on in the yard, I can leave. And if I keep making the yard an unpleasant place to play because of my complaining, I may be asked to leave. But regardless, it will still be their yard and after we're gone they will still be playing here. 

I for one like playing in this yard. I haven't found a better yard yet to play in that gives me what this yard has. And yes, I have stepped in dog poop myself once or twice. Then I mutter about the people that should have picked it up, but mostly under my breath. So come on in, jump and run, frolick and play, or don't. But you might want to keep your eyes open for dog poop. And do you know why..........?

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_Annarose15_ (06-25-2013),_Anya_ (06-25-2013),_Emilio_ (06-25-2013),Kaorte (06-25-2013),rabernet (06-25-2013)

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## Annarose15

> And do you know why..........?


Because poop happens!!  :Very Happy: 

Seriously folks, this has been blown way out of proportion. Mike was the one with a concern, and he tried his best to address it privately. Announcing to the forum that you think the mods are biased will in no way encourage them to be open-minded or give a moment's thought to what you say. Ok, so 5% of the decisions made are in a grey area that some support and some never will. Address things privately and nonconfrontationally, and you might just change ways of thinking. Or, poke a stick at a sleeping hornet nest, and see what happens.

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Kaorte (06-25-2013),_rlditmars_ (06-25-2013)

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## dsirkle

> I have read the entire thread before posting so that I wasn't just responding without having done so. This is my opinion and as was already said, the world will keep spinning, even after I announce it. 
> 
> Some kids have taken the time to set up a great yard to play in. They have invited us over to play and we find many wonderful things to do in their yard. Keep in mind it's their yard. Now the longer we stay and play, the more we notice the stuff in the yard. Perhaps the grass is longer than we like. Perhaps we stepped in some dog poop becuase we didn't see it. If it was our yard we would have picked that up, but it's their yard so it wasn't picked up. We ask the kids if they will cut the grass or pick up the dog poop. It seems like a perfectly reasonable response because we don't like poop on our shoes. We ask, don't tell, because it's their yard. After we ask, they may cut the grass or they may not. They may pick up the poop they may not. Why? Because it's their yard. Are you seeing a theme here?
> 
> Some people would like things different, I get it. Some people have expressed that, I heard it. Some people have even said that the punishments are not always equal, I'll ackowledge that. I won't mention names because that would be indiscreet (KMG). Guess what? It's not our yard. If I don't like what's going on in the yard, I can leave. And if I keep making the yard an unpleasant place to play because of my complaining, I may be asked to leave. But regardless, it will still be their yard and after we're gone they will still be playing here. 
> 
> I for one like playing in this yard. I haven't found a better yard yet to play in that gives me what this yard has. And yes, I have stepped in dog poop myself once or twice. Then I mutter about the people that should have picked it up, but mostly under my breath. So come on in, jump and run, frolick and play, or don't. But you might want to keep your eyes open for dog poop. And do you know why..........?


The most eloquent and accurate post in the thread.

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_rlditmars_ (06-25-2013)

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## PitOnTheProwl

> "Will Pit on the Prowl return to have the last word??


 :ROFL:  :ROFL:  :ROFL:  :ROFL: 


Okay, everyone seems to be stuck on the "no warning" BUT no one wants to open their eyes and see the whole picture. The questioned remarks were made 4 times that I remember in that post before the decision was made. 
So everyone thinks that they would deserve a warning IF they had multiple posts before it was found? I am not taking any ones side this morning as of yet but think about it.

Also, everyone thinks it just the mods and forgets or doesn't read the entire screen, the is a "report post" link that is confidential if your peers want to report something you posted that they are uncomfortable with. :Wink: 

Off to work I go :Mad:

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## Neal

> How is a user to feel when a issue they bring to a mod is refereed to as small potatoes? Important, I think not.
> 
> No matter how small you think a issue is as a mod I think it should be respected and given consideration. The user obliviously thought it was worth something, so should you.
> 
> I was told a similar thing once and it really annoyed me. It made me think the mods do not have the back bone to correct a users mistake or their own and that the entire points system is useless. I felt completely blown off.
> 
> I do agree that in the big picture anything on this forum is small scale. But within this forum even the smallest issue should be handled with care when brought to a mod, not shrugged off. The mods job is to only deal with this forum not comparing it to what issues may await us in our life off line.
> 
> After all in the big picture this whole forum is small potatoes.
> ...


I'm not going to even begin to read all the pages in this thread, I was just told of the thread by a friend of mine so I will comment and say what the mods cannot.

First off, why are you even getting involved in something that doesn't concern you? This is an issue between Mike and the site staff, you weren't even given the infraction or the warning, so again I ask. Why did you even post this pointless thread? Mike, I have nothing against you, and nor you KMG but one thing that I can't stand and that I'm sure most people agree with me is when people get involved in something that they have no business being in. While you may say that I'm doing that very thing, please keep in mind that you've made a public thread about it. Mike was infracted because he made a comment about kicking a dog, while sure many people may do the same thing in self defense, some stuff you just don't say out loud. Say I wanted to sleep with this girl and everybody knows it because I'm always flirting with her or hitting on her, would you really go up to her and say: "I want to sleep with you." No you wouldn't, because as I've stated previously it's something you don't say because some things are best left not being stated. Would anybody really let a dog sit there and bite or tear them open? NO. That doesn't mean you have to say what you would do, because some people take offense to this and it can still be considered animal cruelty to some. For instance, I can't stand Obama and I won't say what I would like to happen and while I'm sure 99% of you agree with something in the general way that I do it doesn't make it right for me to say it, not to mention some things you say you can get in trouble for even if you didn't mean it.

If you would like to take things up with a mod about his call then by all means do it, but it doesn't need to become some reality show. If you can't settle with the mod that issued the infraction then you take it up with an administrator. This is called the chain of command not to mention the respect of going to the person that you have a disagreement or problem with before you step over their head. JLC already stated while she may of handled things differently she still supports that persons decision because he was given the power that he has because they trust that persons decision. Obviously that person felt that things had gone far enough, so they did what they thought was right for the situation at hand, and if JLC went and revoked his decision that would not only undermine his authority but I'm pretty damn sure it would bother him. That means she will not interfere because she's already aware of what has happened and taken place. The glory of it all is that they pay for this site, so they don't have to explain anything to anybody. There is no jury on this because JLC, dr del and the other admins are the Judge, The Jury & The Executioner.

Now to top it off, it's a freaking infraction, stop making such a big deal over it. It's not like he's banned from the site and can't post for so many days. It is what it is, take it and move on or find another forum. But FFS, stop crying over things which you have no control over because in the end, at the end of crying it doesn't change a damn thing. You know what makes the human race so superior? We live and learn, trial and error. Now...

*HAMMER FIST DOWN*

Case closed, thread closed(when they want to).  :Razz:

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ballpythonluvr (06-25-2013)

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## wilomn

It's not about the infraction. It's the principle of the thing. There are protocols, rules in place. Mark may not have known that a warning shot across the bow was the protocol, he's new to the job and that's understandable. However, that doesn't make it right.

Mike was not flaunting his ability to tweak noses, he wasn't adding to the poop in the yard. Yet he got dinged when he should have been warned, to my understanding. He's not complaining about the infraction, I am pretty sure he understands exactly what it means and its worth, he, and I, question the principle that is set in stone that was not adhered to. No fault nor anger was addressed to any staff by him, certainly not by me, but guys like us wonder why the breakdown over something so simple.

IF Mark should have warned him, then a simple, "oops, I goofed let me rescind that ding" would have solved the problem after the first go round with staff. Instead, insofar as I am able to discern, the decision to stand behind what seems to be the accidental flub af a new Mod was made. That doesn't seem consistent with the way this site is ordinarily run.

Mike, if I'm off the mark here, sorry, but that's what I've come away with from this mess. And Neal you're right too. kmg should have never started this to begin with, Mike was handling it properly all by his lonesome.

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_Annarose15_ (06-25-2013),_arialmt_ (06-25-2013),_Coleslaw007_ (06-25-2013),_Mike41793_ (06-25-2013),rabernet (06-25-2013),_satomi325_ (06-25-2013)

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## Neal

> It's not about the infraction. It's the principle of the thing. There are protocols, rules in place. Mark may not have known that a warning shot across the bow was the protocol, he's new to the job and that's understandable. However, that doesn't make it right.
> 
> Mike was not flaunting his ability to tweak noses, he wasn't adding to the poop in the yard. Yet he got dinged when he should have been warned, to my understanding. He's not complaining about the infraction, I am pretty sure he understands exactly what it means and its worth, he, and I, question the principle that is set in stone that was not adhered to. No fault nor anger was addressed to any staff by him, certainly not by me, but guys like us wonder why the breakdown over something so simple.
> 
> IF Mark should have warned him, then a simple, "oops, I goofed let me rescind that ding" would have solved the problem after the first go round with staff. Instead, insofar as I am able to discern, the decision to stand behind what seems to be the accidental flub af a new Mod was made. That doesn't seem consistent with the way this site is ordinarily run.
> 
> Mike, if I'm off the mark here, sorry, but that's what I've come away with from this mess. And Neal you're right too. kmg should have never started this to begin with, Mike was handling it properly all by his lonesome.


Yea, I wasn't really knocking Mike, well maybe a bit because he did make a fuss about the infraction. More so I trying to get at the point that all of this mess should of never been a public broadcast, and it had nothing to do with KMG. Mike seemed to be dealing with it between the forum staff and it should of been left up there. I don't fault Mark in issuing the infraction because everybody has different opinions on what they consider different things and he was only doing what he thought was right.

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## KMG

Neal since you didn't read the thread I didn't read your whole post. I made this post because I have had a similar thing happen to me in the past. The post only recently turned about users feelings about Mike and Mark.

I'm done trying to make a change. But I will be watching to see where this goes.

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## Stewart_Reptiles

> I made this post because I have had a similar thing happen to me in the past.


So given I look into your profile and see only one incidence this means you still have not got over a *ZERO* point warning that was issued on 06-26-2012 for language? Now all I can say is WOW.

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ballpythonluvr (06-25-2013),Kaorte (06-25-2013),Neal (06-25-2013)

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## Neal

> Neal since you didn't read the thread I didn't read your whole post. I made this post because I have had a similar thing happen to me in the past. The post only recently turned about users feelings about Mike and Mark.
> 
> I'm done trying to make a change. But I will be watching to see where this goes.


I'm glad you didn't read my whole post because chances are you would of missed the whole point anyways. So you just saved yourself confusion, good job.

I'll be honest to the point of no return, if I was JLC, raber or dr del I would permanently ban anybody who wanted to publicly call out any of my staff. You have an issue, that's fine go to that person or me, but don't ever and I mean ever call out my staff. All that does is show how attention starved you are. This is our hobby, they're not requiring us to pay to be members or to post or to ask for help. All you've done is made this big issue of something to which there wasn't an issue. Frankly I've had more run ins with the staff here than anybody, from illegally advertising to talking about breaking laws. They could of banned me permanently from when I was advertising my forums that I was running for inverts, but no dr del was nice enough to give me an infraction. I've seen other sites permanently ban people for that.

09-05-2010 05:15 PM
dr del
Expired: Private
Advertising Warning

^^ That's my proof. The thing is you should of never made this thread from the start, and frankly they're nice enough to not have infracted you or banned you like I would of. We're all lucky to have such a great site with knowledgeable people to share our hobby with, but yet people come on here and make issues of small things. You wanted to voice your opinion, fine you messaged the mod, but the mod doesn't have to respond back to you. The decision was made and it was handed down. Accept it and go on with your business, it's called moving on. Please do it.

EDIT:
Also to prove how lack of knowledge you are KMG, you should actually have a 50 point infraction right now per the Infraction System.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/annou....php?f=89&a=15

Disrespect Toward Staff -- 50 pts
Open disrespect toward any staff member, especially with the intent to undermine their authority or damage their credibility.

By making this thread, you've openly disrespected the staff, and with calling out their actions in the open you're trying to undermine their authority and/or damage their credibility because you don't believe the call. This is the reason they have private messages.

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ballpythonluvr (06-25-2013)

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## KMG

> So given I look into your profile and see only one incidence this means you still have not got over a *ZERO* point warning that was issued on 06-26-2012 for language? Now all I can say is WOW.


That wasn't it. I very much deserved that. It was a retaliation issue with another user.

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## KMG

I could see why if you were constantly breaking the rules and the staff allowed you to stay why you would he forever grateful.

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## Mike41793

Neither intentions nor rules matter when all of the final decisions are to the discretion of the staff. The house always wins. Always. That, is what I learned. 

I suggest some of you take note from my example because I'm certainly starting to feel a strong sense of "general hostility" in this thread. Oh and, don't forget to flush.  :Wink:

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## Neal

> I could see why if you were constantly breaking the rules and the staff allowed you to stay why you would he forever grateful.


I wasn't always breaking the rules, and you have to understand I've been here a lot longer than you. The thing that gets me in trouble is that I like to make idiots like you look stupid. I'm not forever grateful, the thing I do understand is how annoying it gets when you have morons like you that pester staff and create issues. The sad part is you still haven't learned a thing, from all this. Also I just made you look stupid again because I proved you read my post after you said you didn't  :Smile:

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## Neal

> Neither intentions nor rules matter when all of the final decisions are to the discretion of the staff. The house always wins. Always. That, is what I learned. 
> 
> I suggest some of you take note from my example because I'm certainly starting to feel a strong sense of "general hostility" in this thread. Oh and, don't forget to flush.


It's not that the house always wins. It's the fact that Mark did what he thought was right and the other admins/mods support his decision. They trust that he made the call he did with the best intentions. I don't have anything against you Mike, yes you can be a drama queen sometimes, but you at least know when to back off.

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## Mike41793

I'm not being a drama queen, i've gotten other infractions and haven't put up much of a stink. My problem with this one is that I was still within the rules since no warning had been issued. The rules clearly state "a warning WILL be issued". 

"You had it coming. If you poke the bear enough, you're gunna get bit" is a load of BS imo. He already wanted to give me an infraction and just used this as an opportunity to. 

It's over and done with, as I said, I learned what I learned.

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## KMG

Neal, I said I didn't read your WHOLE post. Not that I didn't read any of it.

You have been a member longer but not as active. So what.

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## Kodieh

Weren't you leaving, KMG? 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

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Neal (06-25-2013),wilomn (06-25-2013)

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## MrLang

Back... away... from... the... keyboard.

Unless some of you were lying in the past, you hold positions of authority in the 'real world'. You're behaving in a way that brings your competency in those roles into question entirely. Think about the way you're acting and get ahold of yourselves.




I've gotten a handful of infractions. The first time or 2 my stomach dropped, I felt embarrassed, and somewhat aggravated when I disagreed with the reasoning for it. I think I even challenged one or two of them. At the end of the day none of it mattered. The points system decays over time. You really have to go nuts consistently or go WAY over the line to get infracted to a point where it makes an impact on your experience with the website IE being able to visit, post, etc. If I end up getting infracted again int he future, I'm not going to worry about it.

Oops! and moving along.

I do see the point about protocol, etc. I do think rules were broken though. I don't think, unless a particular mod starts slapping questionable infractions left and right, that a thread like this is _warranted_. I don't think it is EVER _appropriate_. If you have an issue with a mod, start a discussion in private. I'm positive they spend plenty of time coordinating and discussing with one another behind the scenes. Take a trip to any other internet forum community. BP.net is TIGHT. Everything is going to be OK... and I have to agree that if you have such a problem that you're getting hot and bothered and taking personal offense, take a minute to chill out. If it still bugs you then please go away - you're bringing bad vibes to my playground.

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ballpythonluvr (06-25-2013)

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## norwegn113

Wow this whole thing has gotten way out of control. Mike has been walking the line for quite some time with bad taste and smart alac comments. ( in fact I got my first warning because Mike decided to chime in on one of my comments and Mock me! ) So I got frustrated and used bad language. Forget that though, I Do agree with the administration on this one. This is JUST a forum, ( a virtual world if you will ) No one gets killed in here, no one suffers any pain and no one goes hungry. Its entertainment and if the worst case should happen and you get banned , well im pretty sure you all will survive! If that is not the case , then maybe priorities should be put in better order. KMG, I have no problems with you because you do help alot of people here and you give good advice unlike some on here that have Giant egos and believe that their way is the only way even when its wrong. ( I think the staff should ban members that continually give bad advice to other users looking for sound advice IMO. ) But KMG you know as well as me that you can not fight the system. It was designed to keep order even at the expense of the innocent sometimes. Lord knows I have been on the receiving end many of times.

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## Rickys_Reptiles

I have had 3 infractions  :Sad: 

At first I stayed home, and cried and cried. I ate a tub of ice cream. I watched "50 things I hate about you" 4 times in a row.

Then I got over it.

This is a silly thread. Although I agree it's important that everyone be treated nicely, at the end of the day this is a club. when I grew up, if a member of my club wasn't in my good books, they got kicked out. I didn't have to give them a reason.

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_liv_ (07-06-2013),_norwegn113_ (06-25-2013),PitOnTheProwl (06-25-2013),SlitherinSisters (06-25-2013)

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## Freakie_frog

The biggest thing here to remember is that we as mods are human, at the end of the day we all log off sit down to dinner and watch Conan like everyone else. When you allow rules as complex and encompassing as the ones needed for a site like this to be enforced by as many different people as we have here there will be small snags from time to time, different interpretations and so on . We're not infallible by any means, we welcome user questions and even discussions regarding the rules and their enforcement its how we grow as a site to keep up with the ever changing digital times, with some small requests. Mainly make your requests in the proper way i.e. PM, be mindful of wording as intent is very difficult to convey in written form for allot of us, see many of us are old brissly, battle worn vets who from time to time feel like the certain situations are more of a full on attack than a "What the hell did I do?" because again we're human.

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ballpythonluvr (06-25-2013),_MrLang_ (06-25-2013),SlitherinSisters (06-25-2013)

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## SlitherinSisters

> I'm not being a drama queen, i've gotten other infractions and haven't put up much of a stink. My problem with this one is that I was still within the rules since no warning had been issued. The rules clearly state "a warning WILL be issued". 
> 
> "You had it coming. If you poke the bear enough, you're gunna get bit" is a load of BS imo. He already wanted to give me an infraction and just used this as an opportunity to. 
> 
> It's over and done with, as I said, I learned what I learned.



I do like you, and you do contribute quite a bit to our site, so don't think I'm saying this out of spite or hate. I'm just tired of the whole "I don't deserve this" thing. I really do hope you have lived and learned, because this is just silly.  


First of all you've had plenty of experience with our "zero point warnings". Second, we don't have to give you a warning for every flippin' thing you do. You're fully aware of how this site works. 




> Please be Careful -- 0 point Warning
> A warning for minor infractions to those who may be new and unsure of our rules, as well as to long-standing members who accidentally let something slip but have no other current warnings or infractions on their account.


You have an unexpired infraction, which correlates quite nicely to this incident funny enough.

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MarkS (06-25-2013)

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## Mephibosheth1

> Second, we don't have to give you a warning for every flippin' thing you do. You're fully aware of how this site works.





But don't the rules say that no infractions will be issued without a warning??  I thought this included "0 point infractions"....

BTW, comments like the above are what make people worried about the use power by the mods (not saying that's me...just saying what many people will say).  It is just common courtesy to let people know why they are getting in trouble for and why before the hammer drops; we expect the same from our law enforcement officers...is it too much to ask from our mods??

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## Freakie_frog

> But don't the rules say that no infractions will be issued without a warning??  I thought this included "0 point infractions"....


No a zero point infraction is your warning. Now some of the time we mods will pull our parent tone and ask that things settle down or move in a different direction if we want to try and be ubber nice. 




> BTW, comments like the above are what make people worried about the use power by the mods (not saying that's me...just saying what many people will say).  It is just common courtesy to let people know why they are getting in trouble for and why before the hammer drops; we expect the same from our law enforcement officers...is it too much to ask from our mods??


Is it to much to as that members know and abide by the the rules of a site they partisapate in? We're not Law enforcement we volenteer and do so for free..

But the rules do say




> APPEALS
> Infraction Points earned may be appealed, but NOT openly debated in the public forums. If you feel you have unfairly received an Infraction, you MUST send a Private Message to any one of the admins (JLC, rabernet, dr del) to have your case reviewed. Public complaint will not help your case and may hurt it.


and 




> 21. All members are responsible for reading and understanding the full content of the TOS and Site Rules. The Administrators (and their staff) reserve the right to determine what constitutes proper use of Ball-Pythons.net. They have final judgment on whether or not the Site Rules and/or Terms of Service have been violated and what the consequences of said violations will be. 
> 
> 
> CONSEQUENCES: Violations of these rules may result in the member earning Infraction Points. In rare cases, an immediate ban may be applied at the discretion of the site administrators.

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_Aes_Sidhe_ (06-25-2013),_Anya_ (06-25-2013),MarkS (06-25-2013),_Mephibosheth1_ (06-25-2013),rabernet (06-25-2013),SlitherinSisters (06-25-2013)

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## Annarose15

> It is just common courtesy to let people know why they are getting in trouble for and why before the hammer drops; we expect the same from our law enforcement officers...is it too much to ask from our mods??


Just a comment on this logic - A law enforcement officer is not expected to warn me before issuing a citation. I'm expected to know the law as it applies to me. Warnings are courtesies.

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MarkS (06-25-2013),_Mephibosheth1_ (06-25-2013),Neal (06-25-2013),rabernet (06-25-2013),SlitherinSisters (06-25-2013),wolfy-hound (06-25-2013)

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## Aes_Sidhe

Well about warnings... This is how I see that dilemma... if Your account Is Clean You never had Infraction history then Yes We will issue warning first... But Even then in some specific cases we can Skip it... i case of Mike that wasn't his first "ride"... and If I was looking at that before Mark did I will Issue Infraction as well.

As Many times many people in this tread said: Moderators and Admins are Only Humans and Many times we let some thing Slide (even when we shouldn't) and there are times when we could overreact little as well.

When You get Infraction You can appeal of course if your request was denied just live with it and get over with it... 

Reading this tread I sometimes have feeling that I'm looking on Pre-School kids krying because they was send to the corner...

Now Please... lets get back to Snake talk... User of this forum Need More Yours and Ours Knowledge and Advice and definitely less FORUM Drama 

Mkay ???

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MarkS (06-25-2013),_Mephibosheth1_ (06-25-2013)

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## Mike41793

Guys, seriously at this point this thread is pointless. You all made a mountain out of a molehill. Judy gave me my answer, it's over and done with. I don't agree with it, nor do a lot of other people, but that doesn't matter. Every time I see this thread pop up it just makes me hungry. I'd imagine potatoes go great with chihuahua.

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_Kodieh_ (06-25-2013),mackynz (06-25-2013),_satomi325_ (06-25-2013)

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## Aes_Sidhe

And With That "lovely" accent Thread is closed as of now....

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_Anya_ (06-25-2013),MarkS (06-25-2013),_Mephibosheth1_ (06-25-2013),Neal (06-25-2013),PitOnTheProwl (06-25-2013)

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