# Ball Pythons > General BP's >  Crowley progression thread

## Valyndris

I am finally starting a progression thread for Crowley. First I'd like to mention he was born on July 15th 2013 and will turn 6 years old next month. I adopted him on August 22nd, he was 39 days old and weighed 123 grams when i picked him up. My mom had a pet store and invited me to come with her to see her local snake breeder as she knew snakes were my favorite animal. He had only 1 baby normal ball python left to sell from the current clutch, i had him in my hand and he was just so adorable, even my mom found him cute and she wasn't too fond of snakes back then. She told me I was allowed to adopt him if I wanted him. I was 22 at the time and was completely able to care for him myself and pay for anything he needed. I just couldn't say no to such a cute little baby ball python and I adopted him. This was a spontaneous purchase which I usually never do without research but I asked the breeder many questions and decided that I could take care of my new little baby. 

Since my mother had a store (which was in the house) I could literally just go downstairs and buy anything I needed for him. He started off in a 10 gallon tank but quickly moved up to a 40 gallon once he was settled in. I know most people advise against upping the tank size too soon but Crowley did fine and was eating well shortly after I got him. My mother already had the 40 gallon tank set up as a display for the store and she gave me that at a great discount for Crowley. I did tons of research about ball pythons the day I got him and learned everything I needed to take care of him. He had a cool side with a hide at around 80 degrees and a warm side with a hide at 90 degrees, I got him a fogger (which he still loves today) to keep his humidity at 55% or 70% while shedding. His setup got upgraded over time and I now use a thermostat to make sure his hot side doesn't get too hot and to keep his humidity perfect. He also had a water bowl and a volcanic rock to rub on for shedding. The spoiled little guy also had vines and branches to climb too. He was such a clumsy little noodle when he was a baby, he'd wake me up at night (he lived in my bedroom, I still lived at home back then) making noise from his butt falling off his branches, I'd get up thinking he got hurt but was always fine as he could only really fall 1 foot.

Here are some baby pictures of Crowley:
First is a picture the breeder took and is the youngest picture I have of Crowley, I unblurred it as much as I could with photoshop but it's still blurry.

Next is a picture of Crowley in a cichlid rock, I learned to regret giving him a hide that has a bottom as once he shed and pooped/peed in there and wouldn't come out, I had to gently break the rock to get him out.

Next is a picture of Crowley with the tongue sticking out, hanging out on the couch with a blanket on it

Here it shows the full length of the little guy on the same couch and blanket

Next is a baby picture of Crowley balled up, I edited out the background and made it clearer with photoshop

I will post in sections as there is a lot to say about Crowley for the almost 6 years that I haven't started this thread for till now. This post is all about his time as a baby.

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Bodie (06-21-2019),*Bogertophis* (06-20-2019),calislytherin (06-30-2019),fadingdaylight (07-01-2019),_Luvyna_ (06-20-2019),squidwardtortellini (06-20-2019)

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## Valyndris

Here is Crowley after he was a baby but before his adulthood, I guess you can say snake teens. So we has around 1 to 3 years old in these pictures. Now what can I say about these years? Well he became more social as I handled him more and more. He started to love massages, no worries I never squeeze him, I let him choose how hard he wants the massage by just offering my hand and he tightens himself to tell you to massage him and I'd pet his muscles. He'd even have his tail start waggling if he really liked it. At this time I had moved out with my boyfriend and liked in a basement apartment. He had a bed and a 2"x2" table to do "missions" on at that time. Of course he never stayed on the table and I was constantly having to grab him but that was just how his missions were back then. He got a little gym made of rope and java perches which I now call his little Crowleyland.

Here are some pictures of him around 1-3 years old.
I call this one, Crowley taking a selfie, as it looks like the tail is holding the camera as if he took his own picture


Next is just a cute picture of Crowley with the tongue out


Next is Crowley asking to come out after feeding him, this is what I call "smushing"


My first picture of Crowley yawning


A cute picture of Crowley in his cave


A picture showing Crowley's beauty


This next picture was on new years, I forget what year but we were at my parents place and when we came back home late he was in his branches. He was waiting for us to take him out all that time.


I took him out pretty much daily back then for about an hour at a time, continuing to get him tamer and even better around humans.

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Bodie (06-21-2019),*Bogertophis* (06-20-2019),calislytherin (06-30-2019),fadingdaylight (07-01-2019),_Luvyna_ (06-20-2019),squidwardtortellini (06-20-2019)

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## Valyndris

Now comes Crowley's young adulthood. Our basement apartment flooded and Crowley got to live with grandma (my mother) for a little bit till we found a new place. I went to visit as much as possible but cried every time I had to leave my little Crowley at my parents place. Luckily that was only for about a month till we found a new apartment. I can tell Crowley was happy to be out of that dank basement and into an upstairs apartment. At this place he has a bed to do missions on and our first Christmas there my parents got him a bigger java branch which I now call his medium Crowleyland along with with old little Crowleyland too, he later got a tent to go in too. All this stuff to do on the bed and he'd still climb down and try to go in the computer. I always told him as I picked him back up "we don't go in computers".

Here are some pictures of Crowley from about 3-5 years old.

Crowley coming for the camera


Crowley on his medium Crowleyland


Crowley looking out the window, he couldn't do that at our basement apartment


My first successful attempt at a panoramic shot, Crowley got so long he needs a panoramic shot just to capture the whole snake


At this time he used to get lots of missions daily, other than after feeding and during shed of course. He'd get about 2 hours a day usually in 1 hour sessions.

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fadingdaylight (07-01-2019),_Luvyna_ (06-20-2019),squidwardtortellini (06-20-2019)

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## Bogertophis

It's always nice to see such a well-loved & well-cared-for snake enjoying his surroundings.  You've done great by him, & if he had the right facial muscles, I'm 
pretty sure he'd be grinning in most of these photos... :Wink:   I like his "normal" BP coloration too, he is a very lucky snake to have such a devoted owner.   :Good Job:

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_Valyndris_ (06-20-2019)

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## Valyndris

Next is the most recent and we are now moved into our very own house!  :Smile:  Crowley now has his own room to do missions in and got an old bird gym from what was my mom's macaw but is now mine since 2 months ago. We re-purposed the bird gym into something fitting for a snake and it is now called his big Crowleyland. So in that room he has so much stuff, he got a new bigger tank for himself when we moved (thanks again to my parents for buying and setting up his new tank, I think it's 60 gallons). Now his old tank is in his room with a cave in it, he has the small, medium and large Crowleylands, he has a scratching post and a tent and also another hide box. He's got so much stuff in his room for him he never gets bored. I can now also take him outside without having to worry about other tenants (we have an actual yard now). This is Crowley in his adulthood at over 4 years old to almost 6.

Here are some pictures of Crowley at the house.
I have this one in a huge poster frame, he is at the top of his big Crowleyland


here is Crowley in his new tank in his bamboo


Here is Crowley with his new plushy friend which I named Plush Crowley


Here is a nice zoom in on Crowley's head, he has a little scar on his head from trying to go in the closet and getting his head stuck in it. We fixed this by adding one of those bug guard things at the bottom, a trim or what ever they are called, this has worked and he can no longer stick his head in the closet. this was the one mistake I made as I didn't fully snake proof his room. He can now safely do missions in his room and no longer get in trouble. There are still a few places he shouldn't go so I supervise him the whole time he is in his room.


Here is Crowley enjoying his medium Crowleyland and his scratching post


Another cute picture with the tongue


And here is the comfy snake in his tent


Now that he has his own room where he pretty much can't be bad he gets an average of 3 hours of missions a day and absolutely loves it. He can roam around his room all he want while I use the laptop that's in there, of course I check to see where Crowley is every 2 minutes. After he's done doing missions in his room and goes to either his cave or tent, I let him hang out there for a bit then I take his cave to the couch and hang out with him there. At this point the snake is as tame as can be, he is a lot less head shy, still enjoys the occasional massages and just loves being with his humans.

I recently got a camera that lets me upload the videos I take to YouTube (my phone's videos did not upload to YouTube for some reason) so i now have videos of Crowley doing missions in his room.

Here is one of them, hopefully the link works:



Here is my channel, it has videos of Crowley and mostly videos of my macaw, Jacob:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmI...tsZMycy5_84FFg

I think that's all the updates I have about Crowley for now.  :Smile:   :Snake:

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*Bogertophis* (06-20-2019),fadingdaylight (07-01-2019),_Luvyna_ (10-02-2019),squidwardtortellini (06-20-2019)

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## Bogertophis

That red ring on the rope appears (from here) that it might have enough room for him to get his head stuck in it?  Might want to remove that?  But otherwise 
he clearly benefits from all this exercise...he's relaxed, curious, doesn't appear stressed, & I'm sure has better muscle tone than most other BPs lying around 
all the time in their tubs.   :Good Job:   What a cute & personable BP & you've got some good creative ideas for things he can safely climb on.  It's obvious that he 
knows his way around too... :Snake:

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_Valyndris_ (06-20-2019)

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## RedRabbit

Love the video footage, and Crowley sure was a cutie as a baby! I'm not sure if you've already been asked this before, but out of curiosity, is he named after the Good Omens character? One of my all-time favorite books (though I have not yet watched the new TV series).

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_Valyndris_ (06-20-2019)

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## Valyndris

> Love the video footage, and Crowley sure was a cutie as a baby! I'm not sure if you've already been asked this before, but out of curiosity, is he named after the Good Omens character? One of my all-time favorite books (though I have not yet watched the new TV series).


He is named after the Crowley from Supernatural, I also just liked that name because snakes crowl (crawl) around.  :Smile:

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*Bogertophis* (06-20-2019),_pretends2bnormal_ (06-21-2019)

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## Valyndris

> That red ring on the rope appears (from here) that it might have enough room for him to get his head stuck in it?  Might want to remove that?  But otherwise 
> he clearly benefits from all this exercise...he's relaxed, curious, doesn't appear stressed, & I'm sure has better muscle tone than most other BPs lying around 
> all the time in their tubs.    What a cute & personable BP & you've got some good creative ideas for things he can safely climb on.  It's obvious that he 
> knows his way around too...


Nah there is no way he'd ever fit his head in that, thanks for the concern on keeping my baby safe though.  :Smile:  Crowley is such a spoiled little guy and I'm sure all that exercise is what got him to grow to 4'4" as I heard that is big for a male ball python, he also weighs 4 pounds.

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## Bogertophis

> He is named after the Crowley from Supernatural, I also just liked that name because snakes crowl (crawl) around.


Here I thought you were a Downton Abbey fan...?   :Very Happy:   (as in the Crawley family)

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_Valyndris_ (06-24-2019)

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## Valyndris

Crowley decided he wants to be a tree python now. I fed him last night and he decided to go bask under his heat lamp in his bamboo for about 6 hours (I went to bed before him so could of been longer). I always tell him he needs to rest and not climb all around his tank after eating, like he'd ever listen, that's not how snakes work but he took it easy in his branches and stayed in one spot, just readjusting slightly every once in a while. He does have a hide at 90 degrees so he could of went there to warm up if he wanted but he chose the bamboo, he did look very comfy though.

The rats I ordered from a new place last time and they came in half the size of what I'd normally get him, so eating small rats might be why he goes climbing after eating sometimes. Hopefully next time they get my order right and get proper sized rats for my little guy, with these rats I can feed him every 5-7 days whereas the bigger rats was every 10 days. I wonder, should I feed him 2 rats in a row? I've never done that and I'm not sure if he'd take a 2nd rat or am I better off just feeding more often like I have been?

Well here is a picture of Crowley hanging out in his bamboo after eating

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fadingdaylight (07-01-2019)

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## RedRabbit

> He is named after the Crowley from Supernatural, I also just liked that name because snakes crowl (crawl) around.


Ah, how could I forget SPN's Crowley!  :Very Happy:

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_Valyndris_ (06-22-2019)

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## Valyndris

Here are Crowley's events from last night. He decided to pose all cute for the camera, this picture is just so cute other than it being a little dark, I don't like blinding him with the flash and I keep the lights dim for him as he is nocturnal and I don't want to confuse him by making it bright.



My husband was showing Crowley his buddy Plush Crowley and he gave him a boop on the forehead.


I went to get a drink and when I came back, I always open the door slowly, he was right at the door, I squeezed my way in and put my drink down, then grabbed the camera because the cute little guy found his escape route, I let him explore right outside his door before I put him back in the room.


Also, during last night, my husband gave Crowley a nice little massage and that got him to pee right away, if Crowley could of said thanks he probably would of. It was an easy mess to clean up, I had to wash his heated blanket but it was due for a wash anyway. Normally I tend to wash things then he pees on it right after cleaning but not this time, glad I waited a bit to wash that blanket.

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*Bogertophis* (06-23-2019),fadingdaylight (07-01-2019)

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## Valyndris

Here is a little short video of Crowley enjoying a massage then asking you all to boop the snoot. Since I was holding the camera I could only massage him with one hand but you can see him mushing onto my arm because he is enjoying the massage. Once I turned the camera off he was back to a 2 handed massage and he loved it. He even got the 4 handed massage last night as my husband was there too and he absolutely loves that, not sure why but my husbands massages get him really in the mood for more. He'll wrap his head around your hand and hold tight just so you can massage him harder. We don't squeeze him or anything and only massage so hard as we don't want to hurt the little guy even though he asks for the deep tissue massage.

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fadingdaylight (07-01-2019),_Luvyna_ (06-26-2019)

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## Valyndris

Found Crowley like this, this morning, he thinks he's hiding. Glad he is in his warm side because I will be trying to feed him 2 rats for the first time in his life tonight. The batch of rats I got were a lot smaller than expected and are half the size of what I normally fed him (switched where I buy from), so I figured might as well try giving him 2 rats. He's eating those little rats every 5-7 days, so I want to try giving 2 and go back to feeding every 9-10 days.

Here is Crowley sleeping peacefully, thinking he's hiding just fine.



And an overhead shot


I got to wake up this morning to go "aww" because that is just so cute when he does this.  :Smile:

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fadingdaylight (07-01-2019),_Luvyna_ (10-02-2019)

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## Valyndris

Well, I just offered Crowley 2 rats for the first time in his life. He gladly ate the first one but had no interest in the second one at all. I guess till my batch of smaller rats are gone, he will just be eating more often, which is fine by me. If he could talk he probably would of said "wtf mommy I already ate, why you shoving another rat in my face? I'm full!"

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## Valyndris

Here is Crowley picking out his next meal on his "menu".



As some of you may know, I also have a macaw. I put the macaw poster and cockatiel poster I have in his room so he can look at the birds. He's so cute looking at the poster it's like he's picking his next meal on a menu. Of course he only eats frozen thawed rats and not exotic chicken but hey let the snake dream.  :Razz:

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*Bogertophis* (06-29-2019),fadingdaylight (07-01-2019),_Luvyna_ (10-02-2019)

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## Bogertophis

Oh you're such a TEASE!  Talk about a "bait & switch",  :ROFL: 

(BTW, some snakes will just only eat one item, no matter what size, & I guess you have "one of those".  Silly sneks...)

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_Valyndris_ (06-29-2019)

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## fadingdaylight

> He is named after the Crowley from Supernatural, I also just liked that name because snakes crowl (crawl) around.


And here I was thinking Aleister...

Love the thread, keep 'me coming!

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_Valyndris_ (07-01-2019)

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## Valyndris

Just a few pictures from last night.

Crowley hanging out on his big Crowleyland:


Crowley came over to see me:


Zoom in on that beautiful face:


Zoom in on his face, pointed at the snoot this time:


That is all, have a nice day.  :Smile:

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TechnoCheese (07-02-2019)

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## Valyndris

Last night with Crowley, I offered him a bath and some massages, I thought he was farting so I put his tail in the water to poop in there and then I found out he already pooped beside my leg. He made a human sized dump and got some on my shorts too so I did laundry with no pants on. I'm just surprised he was able to take such a huge dump without making any fart/pooping noises.

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## Valyndris

Crowley doing missions on his scratching post.

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*Bogertophis* (07-10-2019)

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## Bogertophis

> Last night with Crowley, I offered him a bath and some massages, I thought he was farting so I put his tail in the water to poop in there and then I found out he already pooped beside my leg. He made a human sized dump and got some on my shorts too so I did laundry with no pants on. I'm just surprised he was able to take such a huge dump without making any fart/pooping noises...


You forgot the old saying:  "never trust a fart"!   :ROFL:  Bad Crowley!   :Wink:

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_Valyndris_ (07-10-2019)

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## Valyndris

Crowley doing missions on his big Crowleyland last night, he is super cute at 1 minute into the video, I just love that cute little face.

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_richardhind1972_ (07-11-2019)

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## Valyndris

Today is Crowley's 6th birthday!

Credit goes to https://www.deviantart.com/avalynbastian for the cute birthday snake art.

Here are some yesterday pictures of Crowley, wasn't quite his birthday yet but by the time I get pictures tonight I won't be able to post them till after his birthday.
His cute face.


Hanging out on my keyboard.


I weighed him for his birthday and he is now 5 pounds. Last time I measured him on April 4th he was 4'4". Looks like he is getting more girth rather than length now. He was 3.6 pounds on April 4th but that was at the end of his 7 month fast. Since he's been eating again he's gained 1.4 pounds. He is so big for a male but he gets lots of exercise in his room everyday he comes out.

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*Bogertophis* (07-15-2019),_Luvyna_ (10-02-2019),_RedRabbit_ (07-15-2019),_richardhind1972_ (07-15-2019)

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## Bogertophis

*Happy Birthday, Crowley!  You cutie-pie! *  :Fest:

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_Valyndris_ (07-15-2019)

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## RedRabbit

Happy birthday, Crowley! Lookin' real handsome at 6 years old!

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_Valyndris_ (07-15-2019)

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## Valyndris

Crowley says thanks for the happy birthdays, he got massages for his birthday last night and then was hanging out between my keyboard and monitor for at least an hour. He's just so adorable.  :Smile:

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*Bogertophis* (07-16-2019),_RedRabbit_ (07-16-2019)

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## Valyndris

So after 12 days of not seeing Crowley, he finally finished his shed today, I always miss him so much when he goes into shed mode. I recently added a couple perches to his scratching post to make it easier for him to climb. I showed him these for the first time last night. He investigated them and I think he likes them, it makes it so much easier to climb up and down his scratching post. I didn't take pictures of it as I was taking a video for the full duration that he was on the perches. Here is the video.


I was just so happy to see my little Crowley once again, been so long since I've seen him that I actually called him Jacob (my parrot's name). He is such a good therapy snake and I felt so much better after having him out and watching him do his missions and of course giving him a few hugs.

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*Bogertophis* (07-30-2019)

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## Valyndris

Crowley enjoying some massages outside last night.

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*Bogertophis* (07-30-2019)

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## Valyndris

I finally got it on camera! I got Crowley giving me a hug on camera! He does it often but I just now finally got it on video. He'll go on my nose and stay there for a while like he's giving me a hug. To me this is my ball python being affectionate towards me, we can't know for sure what he's thinking nor can I confirm it's a sign of love/affection but regardless it makes my heart melt every time. He does it at least once a month.

I remember back when the basement apartment I lived in flooded and I had to relocate Crowley to my parents place for a month till I found a new place. I rarely got to see him during that time but would go over as often as possible to clean up after him and feed him, I never had much time to take him out and handle him as my parents went to bed shortly after he'd get up. Once we moved to a new apartment and got Crowley moved in with us, that night he went on my nose just like in the video and he held that position for at least 5 minutes. It was like he was so happy to be back together with his family. I cried with joy that night as I was reunited with my baby, was out of that dank basement and Crowley gave me a nice long hug.

I very rarely show my face on the internet but I found it worth it this time to show that (to me) snakes can be affectionate. You may choose to believe it or not but to me it is Crowley giving me a hug. He is different than most snakes as I give this little guy tons of attention compared to the average snake gets from a human. He is usually out with me for an average of 3 hours a night and at least an hour of that time he is around my neck or in his hide right beside me on the couch when I watch TV after he's done his missions in his room.




Here is a picture also:

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## Bogertophis

Aw, he wuvs you.   :Love:    Though unless he learns to talk, we'll never be sure if he's "hugging you" or just enjoying your warm breath on his throat?   :Very Happy: .... :Wink:

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_Valyndris_ (08-12-2019)

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## Valyndris

(I also posted this picture in the most recent snake picture thread to show off my silly comedy) I made a noodle soup, no worries, the noodles were cooled down and I gave Crowley a bath right after. He actually seemed to enjoy his time in the soup as it was squishy comfy noodles. I was expecting him to slither right out of the pan but he stayed there like a good snake and let me take cute pictures. I did this as I decided I wanted to do themed photos of my pets for each room. Bath/shower time pics for the bathroom and my pets being the meal for the kitchen. It makes for cute funny photos and I find it better than just having regular pet pictures everywhere.

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*Bogertophis* (08-18-2019),_RedRabbit_ (08-19-2019),_richardhind1972_ (08-18-2019)

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## Samurai

But did you eat the noodles?

Sent using mental telepathy.

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*Bogertophis* (11-17-2019),_Valyndris_ (08-19-2019)

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## Valyndris

> But did you eat the noodles?
> 
> Sent using mental telepathy.


That was 50 cents worth of ramen noodles, of course I ate them! It was delicious with the hint of snake oil in it.  :Smile:

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*Bogertophis* (11-17-2019)

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## RedRabbit

Oh my gosh haha! Now Crowley is just making me crave some instant ramen.

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*Bogertophis* (11-17-2019),_Valyndris_ (08-20-2019)

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## Valyndris

So last night Crowley came out at his usual time at around 8:40 and was in full missions mode, he did 3 hours in his room and 1 hour on the couch, he wanted more but I don't let him stay out longer than 4 hours due to the lack of humidity and heat out of his enclosure. Today Crowley came out really early, his light shuts off at 6:50 and he was out by 7:15. I expected him to really be full missions mode today as he was out so early and looked excited to start his missions early... 25 minutes later he already went in his hide at 7:40 (7 minutes ago). I'm glad to say I put a small heat pad under there so that he doesn't come out cold anymore but comes out just right, his hide in his old tank in the room is now at 83ish degrees. Sometimes I wonder what goes on in that little brain of his, wanting to come out early just to go nap in his hide in the room. It's almost like he prefers it in his room because the door of his enclosure in here always stays open. He has the same hide in his main enclosure at the same temperature. Maybe he prefers it in his room because I sit at the computer right beside him, who knows. I just found it so cute that he came out early to go in his hide and had to share.  :Smile:

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## Valyndris

*Crowley the king of dragons*
Sequel to Game of Thrones spoiler: Drogon left to go find a new master. He has found him, King Crowley the giant serpent. He is loyal to his King as Crowley granted Drogon one wish. His wish was to resurrect his fallen brothers back to the living. Now Crowley and the dragon trio are out to conquer the whole world.

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_richardhind1972_ (09-04-2019)

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## Valyndris

So I got Crowley a size 7 crown ring and it fits perfect on his little head. I present to you King Crowley the royal python.

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*Bogertophis* (11-17-2019),_Luvyna_ (10-02-2019)

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## Valyndris

Crowley being affectionate towards me. I love him so very much and this made my heart melt. I was in awe about this for days. I am putting this video in it's own thread as I feel like it needs to be seen.

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## Valyndris

So I was sitting with Crowley on the couch, he looked like he was chillin' in his cave with the tail sticking out as he likes to do. I got up to discover his head was sticking out the other end (which has no entrance there). He is such a cute sneaky little guy. I think he wants to be a turtle.

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*Bogertophis* (09-22-2019),_Luvyna_ (10-02-2019)

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## Valyndris

Crowley "hugs" his hide when he wants to stay in there, he often does this to show me he wants to stay, he'll do that or slowly reverse back a little to tell me he doesn't want to come out. My snake has such good communication skills for something without vocal chords. 100% of the time when he hugs his hide like that he doesn't want to come out till maybe later. This time he did it on the couch in his hide, I think he liked that I put a heat pad under there.

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*Bogertophis* (09-26-2019),_Luvyna_ (10-02-2019)

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## Luvyna

This entire thread is so wholesome, finally got around to reading through every post and I love this so much. I love Crowleyland, wish I could set up something that nice for my BP! Having a snake safe room for my Noodle would be a dream. Also, I adore that "Crowley selfie" photo and the Crowley turtle video. So cute! 

Crowley is such a well-loved and healthy looking BP, I'm sure that all that climbing around is great enrichment for him. He's very lucky to have such a devoted keeper. You two have a wonderful bond and it's always so nice to see your photos and videos. Crowley is definitely one of my favourite snakes on BP.net!

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*Bogertophis* (10-02-2019),_Valyndris_ (10-03-2019)

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## Valyndris

> This entire thread is so wholesome, finally got around to reading through every post and I love this so much. I love Crowleyland, wish I could set up something that nice for my BP! Having a snake safe room for my Noodle would be a dream. Also, I adore that "Crowley selfie" photo and the Crowley turtle video. So cute! 
> 
> Crowley is such a well-loved and healthy looking BP, I'm sure that all that climbing around is great enrichment for him. He's very lucky to have such a devoted keeper. You two have a wonderful bond and it's always so nice to see your photos and videos. Crowley is definitely one of my favourite snakes on BP.net!


Aww, thanks, I love my little Crowley so much and spoiling him makes me as happy as him. He's a male and is 4'4", I'm sure all that exercise he gets has to do with it. Hope Crowley's room can give everyone ideas, a scratching post is pretty cheap for the amount of climbing space, I recommend one with the ladders though as I had to had perches for him to climb everything.  :Smile:

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_Luvyna_ (10-03-2019)

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## Skyrivers

Crowley looks happy. Snake hugs are the best.

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_Valyndris_ (10-03-2019)

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## Valyndris

Thanks to some advice on these forums I decided to move Crowley's enclosure to his room so he is away from my macaw. I will leave him be till he adjusts but he seems to be doing just fine.

Here's a picture of his new setup in his room:

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*Bogertophis* (10-17-2019),_Luvyna_ (10-17-2019)

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## Valyndris

Crowley has been doing great since his move, I changed his hides to ones that don't require a bed for him to like it. They are a bit small and he lifts them sometimes (he still fits and loves them though) but my parents are in the process if figuring out the best materials and making him a couple new hides that will be specially made for him. My father does model train stuff and is really good at making things that are very similar to how to make a homemade hide. His room stays nice and warm and I made sure his temperatures and humidity in his enclosure were still right, I take temperatures all the time, can never be too sure.

After letting Crowley adjust to his new setup I finally took him out for some missions in his room. I fixed a few things that made it easy for him to go somewhere he shouldn't. He rarely does a "bad" mission now but I'm always watching him full time, glancing over every 10 seconds. I also have a nanny cam I watch right under my main monitor in the room (I always glance over too, never risk trusting something that can crash). He was asking to come out for days (riding the glass) but I got him to wait and get used to his new surroundings first. I first let him out for a short period, gradually giving him more time out each day. He is now averaging 2 hours out a day and seems to enjoy doing his missions very much. Here is a video of him doing missions in his room. This is the nanny cam's video and it is in night vision.



He hasn't eaten yet, he may be on his winter fast as he does this every year, maybe he is still adjusting. I try feeding him every 10 days. He doesn't come out of his room, if I'm to try doing couch missions with him again it won't be at least for another month. The bird would be sleeping upstairs when Crowley would go to the couch. Crowley is the type of snake that grew up having a few missions in a small area gradually getting more time out and bigger spaces. Now he has a whole room that never stresses him out, he was raised as an explorer and it is what he loves to do. He's a strong snake, an avid climber that got used to climbing from a small area gradually getting to a bigger climbing area when he became an expert at it, he is 4'4" long which I hear is big for a male.

I love him so much and I am so glad to see he is doing much better in his own personal room. Here he is in his hide on his heated blanket in his room, it is at around 87 degrees and he loves to take ~10 minute breaks in some of his hides once in a while then continues his missions, he has another hide at 80 degrees, the room is usually 77 degrees but he roam around on a heated blanket most of the time and doesn't really get cold, he also has a humidifier in the room. I only turned the lights up for the picture, I always have them dim for Crowley as he is nocturnal and I want to simulate night time while still being able to see him of course.

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*Bogertophis* (11-02-2019),_Luvyna_ (11-03-2019)

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## Danger noodles

In before the lock

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## Craiga 01453

So aside from the hides and the bird, nothing seems to have changed. The snake isn't eating, yet you continue to have him out for hours a day on these "missions" you've made up. 
You claim to love him so much, but you refuse to take advice that will help the animal thrive. He's surviving, not thriving. 
The way you keep that snake is selfish and in no way shows you love him. Love means sacrificing and doing what's best for the person/pet you love. Until you sacrifice your own needs to believe your snake is something he's not your snake (reminder, he's a SNAKE) will never thrive...because YOU CHOOSE to steal that from him. 

You've been given tons of great advice, yet you pick and choose what to listen to...you refuse to accept anything that doesn't benefit YOU. And who suffers? Yup, Crowley who you "love" so much. 

For your snakes sake, you really need to listen, otherwise the poor animal will never get the life he deserves. 

Look, we're here to help. Taking time out of our days because we care. Please understand it's not about you, it's about the animal. And until YOU change, your animal will never thrive. We want to help you get there. Please, for your snake, start listening.

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cincy (11-05-2019),_Danger noodles_ (11-03-2019),_jmcrook_ (11-03-2019),_Moose84_ (11-04-2019),_Sonny1318_ (11-05-2019),vivi (04-28-2020),_wnateg_ (11-03-2019)

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## Valyndris

Please try to keep this thread positive, if you don't believe in my methods that's fine but don't bash me for it. Crowley is doing great, sure he's on his winter fast, ball pythons do that, not eating at this time of year is very normal for him. I am posting his progress on here as I like to have a thread with his life that I can keep forever, this thread is the easiest way to be able to tell stories while still being able to post pictures and videos. This is the only place I post now due to all the hatred I've gotten and all I ask is to keep it nice as I will be looking at the thread for years even after Crowley passes as a way to remember him.

He grew up gradually getting more and more missions, slowly getting more over the years, from having just a chair with him in my arms to a small table with his little Crowleyland to having a double bed with his little and medium Crowleyland on it and then his finally his room which gradually got more stuff over time. He's the type of snake that likes to be out and explore. He'll ride the glass of his enclosure most of the night asking to come out. He no longer spazzes and loves to climb me and come to my face and say hi. Whenever my husband and I sit on the floor he'll gladly come over and climb us. His room is heated and humidified to suit his needs, I come out of his room sweating as it's hot and humid just for him. I never take him out if he doesn't want to, which is very rare. He would probably get depressed if I didn't give him his missions, he's so used to it and loves coming out.

My methods are different yes but I raised this snake not in a tub, but with love and affection and with lots of enrichment to keep him happy and healthy. If you don't like how I do things and think my snake is stressed I'd rather you just sit back and watch this thread and see how Crowley does rather than attacking me for something you don't believe in. I've seen many times where people have said they have affectionate snakes and that they love to come out just like Crowley and they do fine. It is just not seen often as people usually dismiss it and attack people for thinking so. I've had many people come to me saying their snake is like Crowley but just don't like to post publicly about it. I've even had an expert with over 30 years of experience that has thousands of snakes (he has the staff to take care of everything) say he believes snakes can show affection. This expert raises snakes in tubs and also glass enclosures and has experienced so much in his life and knows so very much about snakes and the different ways of keeping them.

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## Danger noodles

Id love to know what a winter fast is and why ur snake started in the summer?? 

I call it like like it is and I feel this is a thread that will remind u of lol the crazy stuff u put this snake through when its all over

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cincy (11-05-2019),Craiga 01453 (11-04-2019),_Sonny1318_ (11-05-2019)

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## wnateg

I don't think that last post is going to be viewed very positively. 

It comes across as really bad anthropomorphism, and you say you have these "methods," when you're really not experienced enough to have methods.

Just being honest. Hopefully, your snake is really doing better.

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cincy (11-05-2019),Craiga 01453 (11-04-2019),_Sonny1318_ (11-05-2019)

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## Danger noodles

> So aside from the hides and the bird, nothing seems to have changed. The snake isn't eating, yet you continue to have him out for hours a day on these "missions" you've made up. 
> You claim to love him so much, but you refuse to take advice that will help the animal thrive. He's surviving, not thriving. 
> The way you keep that snake is selfish and in no way shows you love him. Love means sacrificing and doing what's best for the person/pet you love. Until you sacrifice your own needs to believe your snake is something he's not your snake (reminder, he's a SNAKE) will never thrive...because YOU CHOOSE to steal that from him. 
> 
> You've been given tons of great advice, yet you pick and choose what to listen to...you refuse to accept anything that doesn't benefit YOU. And who suffers? Yup, Crowley who you "love" so much. 
> 
> For your snakes sake, you really need to listen, otherwise the poor animal will never get the life he deserves. 
> 
> Look, we're here to help. Taking time out of our days because we care. Please understand it's not about you, it's about the animal. And until YOU change, your animal will never thrive. We want to help you get there. Please, for your snake, start listening.


There is no help for those that feel they are doing everything right. After all Ive never had a single issue with my snakes or the countless other members here due to neglect, but hey I dont have a friend that works at petco telling me Im doing perfectly

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## Danger noodles

> I don't think that last post is going to be viewed very positively. 
> 
> It comes across as really bad anthropomorphism, and you say you have these "methods," when you're really not experienced enough to have methods.
> 
> Just being honest. Hopefully, your snake is really doing better.


It hasnt eaten in months but as she said he is in a winter fast. Is Canadas winter opposite of the United States?

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_wnateg_ (11-03-2019)

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## Valyndris

He started his fast when I got a new AC unit and accidentally got it too cold one day, that was a huge mistake on my part and I feel bad for it. It gets cold in late August to early September here. You are obviously trying to get me going, I've mentioned this before. Please keep this thread positive.

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*Bogertophis* (11-03-2019)

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## Danger noodles

> He started his fast when I got a new AC unit and accidentally got it too cold one day, that was a huge mistake on my part and I feel bad for it. It gets cold in late August to early September here. You are obviously trying to get me going, I've mentioned this before. Please keep this thread positive.


Why do u not address the issues u have? Plz have a conversation about this and really try to listen. A lot of the stuff u do is ok, but to have him out immediately after such a scary incident for hours  a day when he still hasnt eaten is not ok! Plz have an intelligent conversation about what ur doing and why u think everyone here is wrong and your right

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Craiga 01453 (11-04-2019),_Sonny1318_ (11-05-2019)

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## Cheesenugget

I just want to point out, if your snake is truly in a winter fast, the behavior thar usually accompanies the fast: lack of activity, sleeps more, etc... They are not happening for Crowley.  Based on your post, it seems like he is still very active and going on 'missions.'  In the wild during the active seasons, it would not be so active either.  It prefers to stay hidden and hunt its prey by waiting and ambush.  When it does move, it is because it has to, either for water, to seek a mate or find a better hide/hunting location.  No matter how 'special' an animal is (including humans), our instincts engraved deeply into our DNA dictates a lot of our natural behavior.  So if he truly was fasting due to the colder season, like my boa and my bp, he would not want to roam and prefers to stay in a comfortable spot and sleep.  

No one is trying to be mean to you.  What you are saying have too many holes and makes no sense.

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Craiga 01453 (11-04-2019),_jmcrook_ (11-04-2019),_Sonny1318_ (11-05-2019)

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## Craiga 01453

> He started his fast when I got a new AC unit and accidentally got it too cold one day, that was a huge mistake on my part and I feel bad for it. It gets cold in late August to early September here. You are obviously trying to get me going, I've mentioned this before. Please keep this thread positive.


First off, we are keeping the post positive. Nothing is an an attack on you. We're trying to help you and Crowley. But until you understand that there are facts at play here that greatly outweigh your limited experience with one animal. 

Simply stating that your snake would feel depressed is literally, by definition, anthropomorphism. You're applying human emotion to an animal incapable of feeling that human emotion. We're trying to help you understand this so that Crowley can thrive the way he deserves. 


And honestly, one day of cold wouldn't trigger a fast that lasts months. He's not eating because he's not thriving. Leave the poor snake alone, in his enclosure, until he's eating again. Yes, BPs are known for winter fasts. This I NOT what Crowley I going through. It's not winter!!!!

Please understand we're trying to help you. You even said this is the only place you share because you've gotten so much negative response to your keeping technique. Now you're hearing it here too, from experienced keepers. When are you going to accept that we're not ALL wrong??? At some point you have to realize we're ALL saying because it's true. And we want to help. 

Please accept that Crowley is a snake. Please accept that what you're doing is not helping him thrive. There's a very big difference between thriving and surviving. Please understand we care, that's why we take the time to try to help. Please understand this isn't an attack on you, we don't even know you. What we do know is how you choose to care for your animal. And we're not trying to attack how you keep him, we're trying to help you improve how you keep him. 

I hope, for Crowley's sake, you start to put his needs before your own. Please be open to constructive criticism and know it's nothing more than that. We truly want the best for you and Crowley.

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_Cheesenugget_ (11-04-2019),_jmcrook_ (11-04-2019),_Moose84_ (11-04-2019),_Sonny1318_ (11-05-2019),_wnateg_ (11-04-2019)

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## Valyndris

Crowley has always still done missions during his fasts, he has the energy and doesn't lose weight. Some of these messages are clearly meant to just get me going (not from you Craiga 01453). like saying "In before lock" is clearly just to piss me off. It is indeed winter here where I live in Canada, there is lots of snow on the ground. This isn't the only place I talk to people including experts and I've been told what I do isn't wrong, sure it is different but those with an open mind can see I am doing right by my snake. I didn't immediately just start taking him out after the move, even though he was riding the glass asking, I waited at least a week. He had 30 minutes out the first day so he can check out his surroundings and not be overwhelmed. He's been sleeping great since the move, he used to get up early because of the bird. I feel terrible that I didn't notice this as a sign but at the time I'd let them see each other and they didn't seem to mind. It was when the parrot went in his crazy breeding mode that got Crowley scared or over the edge.

I can't use every single piece of advice given to me as some contradict others. I talk to pros who have kept snakes in tubs and also larger enclosures that have a variety of experiences, they have addressed what I can improve on and I did. I don't get all my advice solely from the forum alone. I don't see how Crowley being stuck in a tank asking to come out is better than just letting him roam around for a couple hours in his room. He shows no signs of stress at all doing so. I never said I think anyone is wrong here, in fact I don't think anyone is wrong, just may not be right for Crowley as he isn't just a tub snake. He was raised letting him do missions a lot and to change that would probably make things worse. That I find worse a fate than any to have so much and lose it all. If you live in a small confined space your whole life, you will be used to that and going out where there are a lot of things would be stressful of course. Crowley has been able to come out almost daily his whole life and was let to roam around, to confine him after 6 years of being able to come out would be cruel.

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## Moose84

I'm going to attempt to try a different form of response to try and help you understand what you are doing... 

Imagine you are with your parents whom have complete control over you and are responsible for your care, well being and quality of life.  The ONLY emotion you have is to protect yourself that's it. You have a "safe place" in your room where it stays dark and you are terrified of big open areas and get REALLY stressed out when someone who is 20 times your size comes and takes you from your "safe space."  

Every single day you are removed from that safe space and put into an environment where you are not comfortable and you search countless hours for another safe space that you can't find.  You are then picked up, stressed out and put back into your safe space.. You are now on high alert of this happening again because you have no control of it.  You are stressed to the max constantly.. Every time your parents try to feed you, you won't eat because you feel sick, stressed out and scared.  Then imagine repeating that day after day after day after day.  This is what that snake is feeling and the reason he won't eat and has "spazz out" moments like that.  

We are truly trying to help you in this thread as others have said.  You have also come to us in complete breakdown mode when the snake does something out of the usual BECAUSE of the environment and care you provide it.  

I think this forum is a great place and is filled with good, knowledgeable people but they also are smart enough to understand that coddling you as an owner is only harming the animal.  You are going to do what you are going to do regardless of what we say it seams so the next time you are panicked and scared when the snake exhibits a behavior you aren't used to and haven't experienced you need to realize that fear and panic you feel is what you are putting that snake through every day.

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*Bogertophis* (11-17-2019),Craiga 01453 (11-04-2019),_jmcrook_ (11-04-2019),_Sonny1318_ (11-05-2019),vivi (04-28-2020)

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## Moose84

> Crowley has always still done missions during his fasts, he has the energy and doesn't lose weight. Some of these messages are clearly meant to just get me going (not from you Craiga 01453). like saying "In before lock" is clearly just to piss me off. It is indeed winter here where I live in Canada, there is lots of snow on the ground. This isn't the only place I talk to people including experts and I've been told what I do isn't wrong, sure it is different but those with an open mind can see I am doing right by my snake. I didn't immediately just start taking him out after the move, even though he was riding the glass asking, I waited at least a week. He had 30 minutes out the first day so he can check out his surroundings and not be overwhelmed. He's been sleeping great since the move, he used to get up early because of the bird. I feel terrible that I didn't notice this as a sign but at the time I'd let them see each other and they didn't seem to mind. It was when the parrot went in his crazy breeding mode that got Crowley scared or over the edge.
> 
> I can't use every single piece of advice given to me as some contradict others. I talk to pros who have kept snakes in tubs and also larger enclosures that have a variety of experiences, they have addressed what I can improve on and I did. I don't get all my advice solely from the forum alone. I don't see how Crowley being stuck in a tank asking to come out is better than just letting him roam around for a couple hours in his room. He shows no signs of stress at all doing so. I never said I think anyone is wrong here, in fact I don't think anyone is wrong, just may not be right for Crowley as he isn't just a tub snake. He was raised letting him do missions a lot and to change that would probably make things worse. That I find worse a fate than any to have so much and lose it all. If you live in a small confined space your whole life, you will be used to that and going out where there are a lot of things would be stressful of course. Crowley has been able to come out almost daily his whole life and was let to roam around, to confine him after 6 years of being able to come out would be cruel.



I have a couple questions and I am going to leave this alone:

1.) How do you know the snake is asking to be removed from his enclosure? 

2.) How do you know when he is sleeping and how well he has been sleeping? 

3.) Have you weighed that snake when he was eating and now that he has been off of food? 

The reason for question 3 is because I have a VERY hard time believing that snake hasn't lost any weight given the number of "missions" he is placed on every day and the stress level he is kept at.

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_jmcrook_ (11-04-2019),_Sonny1318_ (11-05-2019)

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## Valyndris

> I have a couple questions and I am going to leave this alone:
> 
> 1.) How do you know the snake is asking to be removed from his enclosure? 
> 
> 2.) How do you know when he is sleeping and how well he has been sleeping? 
> 
> 3.) Have you weighed that snake when he was eating and now that he has been off of food? 
> 
> The reason for question 3 is because I have a VERY hard time believing that snake hasn't lost any weight given the number of "missions" he is placed on every day and the stress level he is kept at.


1 - he rides the glass of his enclosure constantly, I open the door and he comes out himself, I never actually take him out by removing him, I let him come out by himself every time.

2 - I have a nanny cam that watches over him and I take time lapse videos so I can see when he goes to sleep and when he gets up. He went from getting up early (when he was in the same room as the bird) to getting up when his light shuts off or sometimes sleeps in about an hour before getting up.

3 - I weigh him once in a while and he's not losing weight, I haven't weighed him yet since he's been in the room as my scale doesn't work on carpet but I will probably weigh him tonight as I can just easily fold the carpet over and have a space to weigh him, I should of thought of this sooner.

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## Danger noodles

My comment about in before the lock wasnt about u but about people like me that have a hard time controlling my mouth. I now type what I want first. Then erase it and type something nicer the second time. Lol

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## Stewart_Reptiles

*Alright guys remember what I always say you can lead a horse to the water but you cannot make it drink! Rather than focusing on someone that does not want or care to have your help, simply move on and find someone that does.

That's their snake they are free to keep it the way they want and ignore issues and not listen, going back and forth is not gonna make any difference if someone is not willing to listen and will only increase the negativity which will eventually lead to the thread being locked.

In other words pick and choose your battles.
*

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_jmcrook_ (11-04-2019),_Sonny1318_ (11-05-2019)

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## Danger noodles

Trust me I could care less about some of the humans on here and more about the animals care. And most of the people that are trying to help u feel the same way. 

Im not saying his room is bad or u shouldnt let him out, Im saying u need to give him a break until he eats at least 3 meals again. Then u can resume, if he stops eating again then that should tell u something.

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## Danger noodles

> *Alright guys remember what I always say you can lead a horse to the water but you cannot make it drink! Rather than focusing on someone that does not want or care to have your help, simply move on and find someone that does.
> 
> That's their snake they are free to keep it the way they want and ignore issues and not listen, going back and forth is not gonna make any difference if someone is not willing to listen and will only increase the negativity which will eventually lead to the thread being locked.
> 
> In other words pick and choose your battles.
> *


The queen has spoken, she tells us tales of unwanted advice falling upon deaf ears, is like beating a dead horse. 

We hear u

- - - Updated - - -




> *Alright guys remember what I always say you can lead a horse to the water but you cannot make it drink! Rather than focusing on someone that does not want or care to have your help, simply move on and find someone that does.
> 
> That's their snake they are free to keep it the way they want and ignore issues and not listen, going back and forth is not gonna make any difference if someone is not willing to listen and will only increase the negativity which will eventually lead to the thread being locked.
> 
> In other words pick and choose your battles.
> *


The queen has spoken, she tells us tales of unwanted advice falling upon deaf ears, is like beating a dead horse. 

We hear u

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## Valyndris

I've been told to keep an open mind many times, I feel as though those who think I am doing wrong by Crowley should keep an open mind too, if you don't like how I care for Crowley, just simply sit back and see how his progression goes.

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*Bogertophis* (11-17-2019)

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## Valyndris

> *Alright guys remember what I always say you can lead a horse to the water but you cannot make it drink! Rather than focusing on someone that does not want or care to have your help, simply move on and find someone that does.
> 
> That's their snake they are free to keep it the way they want and ignore issues and not listen, going back and forth is not gonna make any difference if someone is not willing to listen and will only increase the negativity which will eventually lead to the thread being locked.
> 
> In other words pick and choose your battles.
> *


Thank you, I am convinced the way I treat Crowley is right for him. I appreciate all the advice given though some were very mean in their ways of telling me or just simply trying to provoke me. To go with the metaphor, this horse only drinks well water, it isn't wrong, it's just different. I truly believe I am doing what's right for my little guy. I live with him and know him best. I have listened to a lot of advice, whether it be on this forum or elsewhere and I feel as though I am taking the best care of Crowley that I can.

He's not eating but he does this every year and has always been able to come out, fasting during the cold months while still doing missions and maintaining his weight, sure he loses a bit of course but stays looking healthy. Whether it was the AC getting too cold one day triggering his fast or the parrot scaring him starting his fast early, he is still a happy and healthy snake. Having him near the parrot was a mistake and I've learned from it.

Hopefully people can read this thread with an open mind and see how Crowley was raised differently and is cared for accordingly. I never force him to come out, he chooses to do so on his own. The only time I take him out myself is when I try to feed him or when I need to clean his enclosure do to him peeing or pooping. Over the years maybe people will realize he is doing just fine the way I take care of him other than this one incident with the parrot which caused all this bashing and such. Crowley has been doing fine for years and nobody said anything till I made one mistake. Now I feel as though those who like Crowley and don't see how I treat him as an issue stay silent due to the many attacks on me and I don't blame them. There are those who still read about him in silence and that is fine. I like to show my way of taking care of Crowley and how different methods can work just fine.

Science has been discovering more and more that reptiles and snakes are smarter than they were once thought to be and that they sure can show emotions and affection, there was a thread on this very forum about it posted not too long ago. I hope to keep this thread going, giving updates on how Crowley is doing. Like I've said, if you don't agree with my methods just sit back and read how Crowley is doing and over the years when he's still alive and well maybe Crowley can open some minds to alternate ways of keeping snakes. I am not saying keeping a snake in a tub is wrong, just different (and more common of course). I am not the only one that has a snake treated like Crowley and those have thrived too with similar care to Crowley's. I have taken a lot of advice from experts especially those who have kept snakes the way I keep Crowley so I am not just blindly doing anything I want with him. I do my research.

Thank you all for those who read and care about Crowley. He is an amazing snake and companion and has helped me in so many ways with my life as a therapy snake. I make him happy and he makes me happy.  :Smile:

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*Bogertophis* (11-17-2019)

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## Danger noodles

Thriving and surviving sound similar but arent. Id love to be proven wrong and shown any evidence u have about how ur methods are the best way to treat ur snake. But just like all your other posts u will just ignore this and post the same thing about the tons of people that say your in the right. So plz prove me wrong. 

And if u were an expert and had many experienced keeps telling u how great u were doing then why would u home a parrot and a snake in the same room? I just want an intelligent conversation with u making valid points u can back up. If u want I can show u scientific proof of everything I say, can u?

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_Sonny1318_ (11-05-2019)

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## Valyndris

Since Crowley hasn't eaten in a while he did lose some weight which is to be expected as he pooped out all that extra rat waste since weighing him when he was eating which he was at 5 pounds (2268 grams) when he was eating. He is now down to 4.6 pounds (2087 grams) but this is normal weight loss for going on a fast, he usually loses that extra rat waste weight then sustains his weight for a long time maybe gradually losing a bit over a 7 month fast. He hasn't lost much weight at all, that is nice to see. If he losses too much or starts to look unhealthy (triangular) I will be stopping his missions to slow his weight loss. I will try feeding him tomorrow and see how that goes. Whether he's in his enclosure or not I don't think that is a factor in why he isn't eating. A stressed out snake wouldn't willingly come out by himself and want to come out for longer when put back in the enclosure.

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## Danger noodles

> Since Crowley hasn't eaten in a while he did lose some weight which is to be expected as he pooped out all that extra rat waste since weighing him when he was eating which he was at 5 pounds (2268 grams) when he was eating. He is now down to 4.6 pounds (2087 grams) but this is normal weight loss for going on a fast, he usually loses that extra rat waste weight then sustains his weight for a long time maybe gradually losing a bit over a 7 month fast. He hasn't lost much weight at all, that is nice to see. If he losses too much or starts to look unhealthy (triangular) I will be stopping his missions to slow his weight loss. I will try feeding him tomorrow and see how that goes. Whether he's in his enclosure or not I don't think that is a factor in why he isn't eating. A stressed out snake wouldn't willingly come out by himself and want to come out for longer when put back in the enclosure.


Thats where I disagree with u. He doesnt want to come out and play, I promise u that. All Im asking is that u stop this until he eats at least 3 meals. Then if you feel u have to let him crawl around ok, while I dont agree with a daily multiple hour cruise, it would be ok if he isnt loosing weight. 

But again plz provide any evidence of what ur doing is being agreed with by any professionals

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_Sonny1318_ (11-05-2019)

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## Valyndris

Well I asked the most well known expert I know of and this was his answer:


I don't see Crowley stressing whatsoever when he comes out, he comes out by himself, if he was stressed then why would he be coming out by himself stressing himself out? That just doesn't make any sense. Even at first I'd offer his enclosure back in case he didn't know how to go back up and find it. He would put his head in and then nope, he wanted to come right back out and do his missions. His room is so much warmer than where he used to be (the living room), the room itself is at 77-80 degrees, it gets hot in there when he's out as I turn the heated blanket on, then add my laptop and monitor's heat and my body heat and it's nice and toasty in there. Hopefully he will eat tonight, he seemed semi-interested last time I tried feeding him. Like Brian Barczyk said, each animal is different, my little Crowley has been an explorer all his life and that's what he likes, it's his way of life and changing it could be worse for him.

Here is the link to my comment and his reply: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nP0v..._5SE1-Z4AaABAg

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## wnateg

You're looking for an echo chamber to support your opinions versus honest constructive criticism.

Good luck. I imagine you'll need it on more than just this occasion.

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cincy (11-05-2019),Craiga 01453 (11-05-2019),_jmcrook_ (11-05-2019),Mommabear.Yoli (11-06-2019),_Moose84_ (11-05-2019),_Sonny1318_ (11-05-2019),Stewart_Reptiles (11-05-2019)

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## Valyndris

I was asked for proof of an expert's opinion and I provided it. I am not looking for advice or support, just simply trying to post Crowley's progress as this is his progression thread. When I had questions I posted them in a different thread. This thread was simply meant to be to share how Crowley is doing and progressing but people just keep wanting to criticize me and say I'm doing things wrong even though Crowley is doing absolutely fine.

I want to keep this positive and would love to be able to continue posting about how Crowley is doing. I am trying to reply to most questions as I want people to understand how I do things and why.

Here is a cute picture of Crowley in a hide he never used till I moved it next to where I sit in the room. I'd like to think he hangs out in there to be near me but who knows, maybe he just likes the location better. He "hugs" his hide like that to tell me he wants to stay in there, I know this because he's done it for years and always stays in when he does that. When he "hugs" his hide while in his enclosure I close the door as I know he doesn't want to come out yet.

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## Craiga 01453

I would hardly call that proof of an expert supporting your methods. He knows very little about the details or of the extent of your anthropomorphizing. 

He also answers using question marks(???). That's hardly an advocation. 

I tried here. You're obviously not willing to accept anything you don't want to hear. And now you're even taking a very vague "answer" and trying to make it sound like Brian Clickbait supports your methods. 

I just can't anymore. OP, good luck. 

Crowley, good luck, you're gonna need it. I'm sorry your life will inevitably be shortened by ignorance. It's not your fault.

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cincy (11-05-2019),_Danger noodles_ (11-05-2019),Mommabear.Yoli (11-05-2019),_Sonny1318_ (11-05-2019),vivi (04-28-2020)

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## Sonny1318

I just went through this thread twice, wow. Wow, what baffles me most, is I thought this site was about sharing knowledge, not nonsense. That’s nice you love your animal so much. But that doesn’t change any of the nonsense that you’re claiming. If I was just getting into the hobby, I couldn’t imagine a more misleading portrayal of snake keeping. Proof? Proof of what, that a breeder answered your question in a totally non defining manner? Or other keepers are as bad with proper snake care? I learned too many hard lessons in life, pray that’s not what you have to learn in this instance. It’s a PUBLIC form, and you’re posting of free will. Others are chiming in, because what you describe is absurd to 99% of our community. Peace and best of luck. Personally I can’t believe the thread made it this far without more inflammatory comments. Wow.

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Craiga 01453 (11-05-2019),_Danger noodles_ (11-05-2019),Mommabear.Yoli (11-06-2019),_Moose84_ (11-05-2019)

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## Danger noodles

Ok at least u did try and find some proof and I respect that, but u have him a fraction of the whole story. I really do hope that one day u will wake up and realize that you will never know how your snake feels. like I said before thriving is not surviving.

on a second note, if u can talk to snakes and know what Crowley loves and doesnt love, then why not ask him why he was freaked out about the bird before waiting months and then asking us? 

Last your lying to yourself ur self and others when u say winter fast. It started dead in the middle of summer, ac on for one day shouldnt be a winter fast, unless u dont have his setup correctly heated. It can be 65-80 in my house and my snake habitats are at a constant temp due to the heat being on a thermostat

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Craiga 01453 (11-05-2019),_Sonny1318_ (11-05-2019)

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## Danger noodles

> I just went through this thread twice, wow. Wow, what baffles me most, is I thought this site was about sharing knowledge, not nonsense. Thats nice you love your animal so much. But that doesnt change any of the nonsense that youre claiming. If I was just getting into the hobby, I couldnt imagine a more misleading portrayal of snake keeping. Proof? Proof of what, that a breeder answered your question in a totally non defining manner? Or other keepers are as bad with proper snake care? I learned too many hard lessons in life, pray thats not what you have to learn in this instance. Its a PUBLIC form, and youre posting of free will. Others are chiming in, because what you describe is absurd to 99% of our community. Peace and best of luck. Personally I cant believe the thread made it this far without more inflammatory comments. Wow.


We are truly trying to help. Im not posting on here to act like an a hole I just what whats best for Crowley, his owner truly loves him and I would like to see her have him for another 20 years instead of 5

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## Danger noodles

So if u want advice from a well respected breeder then pm Stewart reptile on this site and ask Debra what she thinks, I promise she will not steer u in the wrong direction. U can even go look at her amazing animals on morph market and see the quality of animals she produces.

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Craiga 01453 (11-05-2019)

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## Mommabear.Yoli

This entire thread gives me the most anxiety I've ever had. I need a Xanax just to read it.  It's just watching people talk to a brick wall over and over again !   She isn't gonna change, and the snake will die and she will start a new thread about sorrows and sadness and want all the support of the forum. It's rediculous to think a snake wants anything other to be fed and left alone.  People are crazy. Women are nuts . Let's just hope there are no actual children involved in this person's care.

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## Moose84

> Well I asked the most well known expert I know of and this was his answer:
> 
> 
> I don't see Crowley stressing whatsoever when he comes out, he comes out by himself, if he was stressed then why would he be coming out by himself stressing himself out? That just doesn't make any sense. Even at first I'd offer his enclosure back in case he didn't know how to go back up and find it. He would put his head in and then nope, he wanted to come right back out and do his missions. His room is so much warmer than where he used to be (the living room), the room itself is at 77-80 degrees, it gets hot in there when he's out as I turn the heated blanket on, then add my laptop and monitor's heat and my body heat and it's nice and toasty in there. Hopefully he will eat tonight, he seemed semi-interested last time I tried feeding him. Like Brian Barczyk said, each animal is different, my little Crowley has been an explorer all his life and that's what he likes, it's his way of life and changing it could be worse for him.
> 
> Here is the link to my comment and his reply: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nP0v..._5SE1-Z4AaABAg


When is the last time you saw Brian pull a ball python out for a mission? Let me answer that. He wont. He has done multiple videos on why ball pythons thrive in smaller enclosures and rack systems. You arent dealing with a reticulated python or a water monitor. Try not to pick and choose things that make you feel better while burying your head in the sand. Also, I just fed my ball pythons today and we have had freezing temperatures over the last week... EVERY SINGLE ONE ate. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Craiga 01453 (11-05-2019),_Sonny1318_ (11-05-2019)

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## Valyndris

Brian Barczyk takes snakes out all the time, even ball pythons, he has this place called the reptarium now where he takes out some ball pythons all the time and they do just fine. I can only give so much detail over a YouTube comment and he can only give so much of a specific answer as all animals are different as he said. This means some ball pythons will eat if it's cold, some like to fast for months at a time. He's not the only expert I've talked to, he was the one I was willing to give a screenshot about because he's posting publicly for anyone to be able to see. I like to protect others identities as I don't want these people getting attacked like I do.

I've mentioned multiple times I'm not looking for advice in this thread, just simply showing Crowley's progress. If you don't have anything nice to say then just don't say it at all, I'd like this thread to stay open as I would like to continue giving updates about Crowley. I am done answering silly questions that I've tried to explain over and over.

Please be respectful, if you don't have something nice to say just don't say it at all. These latest comments are clearly attacks on me (not from everyone but many) for doing things differently. Even a moderator chimed in and said to leave me alone.

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## Moose84

> Brian Barczyk takes snakes out all the time, even ball pythons, he has this place called the reptarium now where he takes out some ball pythons all the time and they do just fine. I can only give so much detail over a YouTube comment and he can only give so much of a specific answer as all animals are different as he said. This means some ball pythons will eat if it's cold, some like to fast for months at a time. He's not the only expert I've talked to, he was the one I was willing to give a screenshot about because he's posting publicly for anyone to be able to see. I like to protect others identities as I don't want these people getting attacked like I do.
> 
> I've mentioned multiple times I'm not looking for advice in this thread, just simply showing Crowley's progress. If you don't have anything nice to say then just don't say it at all, I'd like this thread to stay open as I would like to continue giving updates about Crowley. I am done answering silly questions that I've tried to explain over and over.
> 
> Please be respectful, if you don't have something nice to say just don't say it at all. These latest comments are clearly attacks on me (not from everyone but many) for doing things differently. Even a moderator chimed in and said to leave me alone.


Would you rather us comment on the thread that your snake completely "spazzed out" due to its environment? Or maybe on the thread where you were "massaging" the animal and it was flinching because it didn't like to be grabbed because that's what they associate a predator with?  Taking a BP out to handle it and sending it on "missions" that YOU want it to accomplish are two very different things.. 

Let us know..

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Mommabear.Yoli (11-05-2019)

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## Bodie

> This entire thread gives me the most anxiety I've ever had. I need a Xanax just to read it.  It's just watching people talk to a brick wall over and over again !   She isn't gonna change, and the snake will die and she will start a new thread about sorrows and sadness and want all the support of the forum. It's rediculous to think a snake wants anything other to be fed and left alone.  People are crazy. Women are nuts . Let's just hope there are no actual children involved in this person's care.



I am a quiet member.  I usually only comment on peeps pictures and such.  I leave the "you should do this and that"  comments for others.  I do have to say though that this comment is rude, mean hearted.  Comments like this will scare people from wanting to post question for the fear of ridicule.  Thats a shame.

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*Bogertophis* (11-05-2019),Craiga 01453 (11-05-2019),_Valyndris_ (11-05-2019)

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## Craiga 01453

I just hope you don't expect us to take time out of our days to help you next time. And trust me, there will be a next time. 

Sorry Crowley. We tried.

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_Moose84_ (11-05-2019),_Sonny1318_ (11-05-2019)

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## Moose84

> I am a quiet member.  I usually only comment on peeps pictures and such.  I leave the "you should do this and that"  comments for others.  I do have to say though that this comment is rude, mean hearted.  Comments like this will scare people from wanting to post question for the fear of ridicule.  Thats a shame.


Please take some time and see the amount of comments and threads posted under this animal... I think you will understand then.. Everyone here is about helping the animals.. We aren't here to coddle owners in my opinion...

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Mommabear.Yoli (11-05-2019)

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## Bodie

> Please take some time and see the amount of comments and threads posted under this animal... I think you will understand then.. Everyone here is about helping the animals.. We aren't here to coddle owners in my opinion...



I have taken the time and I have read the others comments.  I do understand.  My issue is with the comment I quoted....  there was no help in it.  It was mean.  Especially the last sentence in that quote.  That's all I have to say

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*Bogertophis* (11-05-2019),Craiga 01453 (11-05-2019)

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## ballpythonsrock2

> I am a quiet member.  I usually only comment on peeps pictures and such.  I leave the "you should do this and that"  comments for others.  I do have to say though that this comment is rude, mean hearted.  Comments like this will scare people from wanting to post question for the fear of ridicule.  Thats a shame.


At the bottom of every post there is a report post button (triangle)  you can report it, as in this case you probably should, just wanted to let people know they have that option.  It's the little triangle in the lower left area next to the thanks and plus or minus R.  

And I agree with you about certain people seem to lack common sense and let their emotions get the best of them.  And some people seem to LOVE to argue. Believe me I have met some before joining this website.  I can recognize them quickly. There are a few here.  But many here are nice and they don't post much they get to the point they want to say and they move on.  A lot of them have been here a long while.  And will be here probably long after us Hot Shots have burned out.

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_Valyndris_ (11-05-2019)

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## Stewart_Reptiles

*Well I think we are done now, it's getting old, not like I did not warn anyone.

I would highly recommend that other threads do not turn like this one otherwise I won't be as nice and infraction will be the next step, learn to WALK AWAY and pick your battles, and if it bothers you that bad use the IGNORE feature*

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*Bogertophis* (11-05-2019),dr del (11-05-2019),_jmcrook_ (11-05-2019)

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