# Site General > General Herp >  Is he star gazing or just curious? (IBD help)

## retic720

I did a search for IBD; oddly, I didn't get results (i used small case...would that matter?). Anyhows, I'm on an extra "vigilant" mode for IBD. 

Now, 2 of my retics would "stand up"; this would often give me scares coz I thought they're star gazing; I'd give sighs of relief each time they assured me that they just want to climb up to my shoulder or get out of the cage. 

Naturally...I don't want to live paranoid forever; so which leads me to my next question:

How do I tell if it's THE dreaded star gazing? or if he's just curious?

Notes:

I currently have 0.2 Phil. Island retics (one's been with me for 4 years, the other for 3) and 1.0 normal ball python (been with me for 4 years too). 

Thanks

----------


## WingedWolfPsion

This is what you don't want to see (warning, it's hard to watch):
YouTube - Danse Macabre
YouTube - Inclusion Body Disease (in a red tail boa)
YouTube - snake with ibd

As you can see, once you've seen the real thing, you won't mistake simple curiosity for it.

----------

EchoPyrex (06-27-2010),gwentennyson (06-10-2015),retic720 (02-24-2010),Shadowy (01-11-2019)

----------


## BPelizabeth

Mind you...I do not have experience with this...THANK GOD!!  But I would naturally think that once you see some of the effects of this....you would see the snake go downhill pretty fast.  Not just the occassional star gaze.  But again this is just my uneducated opinion.

----------


## Skiploder

A couple of things:

While the videos show behavior that COULD be attributable to IBD, there are numerous diseases/ailments that have the same presentation of neurological symptoms.  Some are viral, some bacterial, some chemical and some due to husbandry errors

I would take a large grain of salt with any video that is not accompanied by a necropsy or histopathology report that confirms the disease.  Many snakes with IBD never show neurological symptoms.  The fact that a snake is stargazing, corkscrewing, spiraling, etc. is not a diagnosis of anything.

Additonally, some vets claim IBD and recommend euthanasia of the snake without any positive diagnosis.

In the past videos have been posted of supposed IBD-afflicted snakes.  After necropsy it was shown they had other issues - meningitis for example.

----------

_BPelizabeth_ (02-24-2010),EchoPyrex (06-27-2010),retic720 (02-24-2010),Stewart_Reptiles (02-23-2010)

----------


## BPelizabeth

Listen to skiploader.....I did not even know all of that.  I knew that high temps can cause that and typically are cured with time and steriods.  But Skip is pretty much an expert and knows his stuff!!  I trust him w all my questions.

skip...pay  me later k  :Wink:

----------

retic720 (02-24-2010)

----------


## WingedWolfPsion

Any neurological problem that develops and looks like this is going to be serious.  The point was to show the difference between normal behavior, and neurological impairment--to show 'stargazing'.  Whether the cause is IBD or some other terrible problem, it still would require prompt attention.

----------


## Mike Schultz

I've seen snakes twist, spin, corkscrew, and stargaze from:

-Respiratory Infection
-Dry shed
-Genetics (Spider ball pythons, Jaguar carpets)
-Black Knight/Provent-a-Mite/Permethrin overdose
-"Heatstroke" for lack of better term
-Kidney/Liver failure from dehydration/starvation (happens in imports sometimes)
-and many other unknown causes

Keep this in mind before diagnosing IBD! IBD also shows many other symptoms besides stargazing and corkscrewing including skin sores/blisters, regurgitation, tumors, and many more.

----------


## retic720

thanks for the help guys; my 4 year old retic just shed last night and all of my pythons do not show the signs indicated in the videos posted. 

Wheeew....now I could relax a little I guess  :Wink:

----------


## WingedWolfPsion

You've seen snakes stargaze from a bad shed?  I can see how a snake might writhe around and try to get the shed off, but why would they stargaze?

I've seen snakes with an RI elevate their head, but it does not look like stargazing.

Of course spiders look pretty 'off', they have a neurological condition.

----------

