# Lizards > Monitors and Tegus >  First time owner of Timor monitor

## JGB24

Just got my first Timor monitor today. I've done my research but I wanted to get opinions and help from owners or past owners. 
He's in a standard 60g with two sliding screen panels on top. I have him on a cypress mulch and forest floor mix substrate. He has a big half log to hide on the cold end. I have a uv heat bulb at one end over a nice basking branch that offered different levels of basking. And a water bowl. That all for now. Tomorrow I'm getting some fake leaves and vines cause I know they lik to hide. 

Do I leav the basking light always on or should I turn it off at night? 
What am I missing?
Any help would be awesome

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## Skiploder

> Just got my first Timor monitor today. I've done my research but I wanted to get opinions and help from owners or past owners. 
> He's in a standard 60g with two sliding screen panels on top. I have him on a cypress mulch and forest floor mix substrate. He has a big half log to hide on the cold end. I have a uv heat bulb at one end over a nice basking branch that offered different levels of basking. And a water bowl. That all for now. Tomorrow I'm getting some fake leaves and vines cause I know they lik to hide. 
> 
> Do I leav the basking light always on or should I turn it off at night? 
> What am I missing?
> Any help would be awesome


Screen tops?  60 gallon tank?  

Just out of morbid curiosity, where did you do your research?

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_infernalis_ (08-13-2012)

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## jbean7916

How are you heating? And how in the world will you keep humidity up? What about burrowing? Does the substrate you have hold its shape?

I know timors are smaller but a 60gal tank sounds too small. Plus I wouldn't do a glass tank for any monitor species...



Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

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_infernalis_ (08-13-2012)

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## JGB24

> Screen tops?  60 gallon tank?  
> 
> Just out of morbid curiosity, where did you do your research?


is 60 too small? Ive seen tons of people with Timors in smaller enclosures. Id like to think mine is pretty big.
I looked at multiple of care sheets online and also was told things from someone who has raised them.

To answer JBean7916:
The heat is coming from the UV heat combo bulb.
Humidity stays close to 50% which Is what I was informed to keep it at.
The substrate holds humidity well. 
And why wouldn't you do glass?

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## jbean7916

> is 60 too small? Ive seen tons of people with Timors in smaller enclosures. Id like to think mine is pretty big.
> I looked at multiple of care sheets online and also was told things from someone who has raised them.
> 
> To answer JBean7916:
> The heat is coming from the UV heat combo bulb.
> Humidity stays close to 50% which Is what I was informed to keep it at.
> The substrate holds humidity well. 
> And why wouldn't you do glass?


I think humidity should be closer to 60 for these guys also I wasn't asking how well the substrate held humidity, I was asking does it hold its shape for a burrow.

Monitors dig... Alot. With a glass tank you can't give them deep enough substrate to do so. Also, basking temps need to be high and trying to provide a temp gradient in a tank is not easy. You basically create an oven. 

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## JGB24

Im not entirely sure if the substrate will hold its shape. Its seems like it should but I wont know till he starts burrowing.
Also the temps are ok. The cool end is 70s and the basking spot is 100+ Ill attach a picture here of the enclosure in a second.

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## Skiploder

100 degrees plus for a timor monitor..................?

Again, who gave you this info?

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## JGB24

> 100 degrees plus for a timor monitor..................?
> 
> Again, who gave you this info?


How is this helping me? Im honestly asking people for help. If your such a pro then how about some tips and assistance instead of just rude comments.

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## Skiploder

> How is this helping me? Im honestly asking people for help. If your such a pro then how about some tips and assistance instead of just rude comments.


I am under no obligation to help you.  the only obligation I feel is to the well being of the animal which is now YOUR responsibility.

You came on here stating that you had done all your homework. 

You haven't.  A screen top is a no no with a varanid.  If you had done a modicum of research you would already know that.

A 100 degree basking spot is insufficient.  There a myriad of other issues with your setup.  

There is not simple set of guidelines to properly housing a varanid.  A very exacting set of husbandry standards must be met.  If you did not do your homework, you better do it now.

Start with a proper heat gradient with the top basking spot no less than 130 degrees.  Start with an adequately sized cage that both fits the size of the animal yet allows you to meet the heat and humidity requirements.

Your substrate needs to be able to hold moisture and allow for burrowing if the animal so desires.  It also needs to be deep enough to allow for this behavior.  Leaf litter over soil works well for timorensis.

Since timors are arboreal, using cork tubes layered under the basking spot can simulate a retes stack and provide the proper heat gradient.

Now, if you find my replies rude, so be it.  Personally, I find it beyond rude to purchase and animal with absolutely no idea on how to properly care for it.  The word I would use for that is "inhumane".

If you would like to continue to be ticked off at me, be all means do so.  However, while you are fuming, do that poor animal a favor and get it's needs provided for ASAP.

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_infernalis_ (08-13-2012),_jbean7916_ (08-13-2012),_Mft62485_ (08-13-2012),_PorcelainxDoll_ (08-13-2012)

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## jbean7916

I knew uncle skippy would help! 

Monitors are NOT for beginners. We adopted a Nile and we were NOT ready for him at all. We spent well over $1500 to build his enclosure (and I'm still not satisfied with it). 

Remember, that much soil is very very very heavy. That hot of a basking spot is best achieved with a bank of low wattage lights versus 1 high wattage one. humidity is important. Fresh water is important and they will poo in it daily (if not more).

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

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## infernalis

Here is an example of a decent cage for small to medium size monitor lizards. ( I know I have Savs, but aside from your Timor being an arboreal lizard, the husbandry is nearly identical)



 I have since added a platform made from slab wood I got at a saw mill for free, it looks like this.



 If you look close, you can see the burrow hole too. They also have dug tunnels under the platforms..

This hole on the surface is quite small, I set the cam on macro and shined a flashlight down the hole to get these.






 I will post some more for you soon... Meanwhile, enjoy a nice video.

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## 1nstinct

Im sorry but i have to agree with skip you did little to no research on the species. Monitors are NOT a animal you want to buy on a impulse bye. They require big cages, lots of food, do not really enjoy handling, and are very very smart. I consider most monitors to be the veloster raptor of this time. They will watch you and learn your habits, and then think about their next move.
Ill try to help you with some of you problems with your set up. 
Cage-first you tank is to small, for a full grown timor. If your timor is a hatchling i would say ok fine it is big enough to last you around 6 months at most. The tank is not big enough for a juvi, a juvi should have around a tank that measures 4 ft by 3 ft by 4 ft. While an adult would need 5 ft by 3 ft by 6-8 ft and would be very comfortable in the cage. Timors like to be in branches they are an arboreal species, more branches for them to hide in the safer they will feel, reason for why you need a much taller cage. Lots of plants and branches, and add a few cork bark circles and they will be a much happier monitor.

Heating/lights/Temps/humidity-Hot spot should be 120-130 degrees at the basking spot, the warm side should sit at around 90 degrees, and the cool end around 80-85 degrees. There is a a few discussions on if monitors need uv lights, i never used any uv lights for my rough neck and my argus pair, and last time i heard P.E. doesnt use uv lights either and they produced A LOT of different monitor species(robyn correct me if im wrong). You should have day lights and night lights, night time can be done by ceramic lights but do not need to be set at the same temps as the day lights, 85-78 degrees for night would be ok. timors require a higher humidity compared to other monitors humidity should be 75-85%.

Substrate- while i agree with a lot of people that monitors do like to be able to burrow, most arboreal species usually don't, they are more comfortable in tree,hence why you need lots of branches/hides up top. a substrate that is 6-10 inches would work fine. a mixture of 50% dirt 40% sand 10% potting soil will work great, it will help keep the humidity up in the cage.

water- Most people who deal with monitors will tell you, you will be caging the water bowl at min every day. they will poop, put substrate into this water bowl and make it more of a nasty sludge instead of clean water. I always provided a good side water bowl, large cat little pans work wonders, they are big and cheap. for my argus monitor they each got one, and were bathed once a week in the bath tub for 20-30 mins to make sure they stayed properly hydrated.

Food- this is the best part! you will realize how much monitors eat. as your timor is growing provided lots of insects(crickets,roaches,grasshoppers) and rodents. I would suggest finding a rodent supplier and get ready to be ordering a lot of rodents. as your monitor hits adult hood it will eat more rodents and less insects but still provide insects to give it a variety in its diet.

hope it helps.
welcome to the never boring day when dealing with monitors! remember they are not a snake that will sit around in a hide all day. They are a lot smarter than people give them credit for.
tom

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_infernalis_ (08-13-2012)

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## Mike41793

I didnt realize savs were so quick! Awesome video. I really thought they were more slow moving than that.

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## infernalis

> I didnt realize savs were so quick! Awesome video. I really thought they were more slow moving than that.


 I don't want to distract from the thread, but I'll bet that's the first video you have seen of a correctly supported Savannah Monitor.

 Check out my thread for more.. Littlefoot & Cera

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> Substrate- while i agree with a lot of people that monitors do like to be able to burrow, most arboreal species usually don't, they are more comfortable in tree,hence why you need lots of branches/hides up top. a substrate that is 6-10 inches would work fine. a mixture of 50% dirt 40% sand 10% potting soil will work great, it will help keep the humidity up in the cage.


 However, by the 50% chance that this particular animal may be a female, it's just best to make sure there is enough dirt to support nesting.

 Females will cycle eggs even without a male present, and rather than risk another "I don't know what happened" egg binding, it's best to just be prepared ahead of time.

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## JGB24

Skiploder,
First all Id like to let you know that I did in fact do my homework. 
I dont buy reptiles without understanding what they need and how to care for them.
Ive looked at multiple sources online as well as talking with owners face to face regarding Timor Monitors.
I have never seen anything that says screen tops are bad. Not saying your wrong, Im just saying I never read that anywhere before, but now I know. Can you explain in more detail why they are bad?
Also I said my basking spot was 100+ meaning it goes higher than 100. On the lower parts its 100 and then it goes up as you get higher and centered under the light. My humidity is being improved.
Everything you just said was actually really helpful and next time you should just say that first.
I care for many other reptiles at home and I actually know what Im doing, but this is my first monitor hence the reason I asked for tips from you guys who own or have owned.
I posted on this site to make sure I was doing ok because I did do my research but its good to also get opinions and tips from actual owners with a lot of experience.
So im gonna make improvements to my enclosure because you did give good advice same as the other people who posted as well and I really do appreciate it.
Just next time help someone out instead of being so snarky. Everyone starts with their first monitor.

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> Im sorry but i have to agree with skip you did little to no research on the species. Monitors are NOT a animal you want to buy on a impulse bye. They require big cages, lots of food, do not really enjoy handling, and are very very smart. I consider most monitors to be the veloster raptor of this time. They will watch you and learn your habits, and then think about their next move.
> Ill try to help you with some of you problems with your set up. 
> Cage-first you tank is to small, for a full grown timor. If your timor is a hatchling i would say ok fine it is big enough to last you around 6 months at most. The tank is not big enough for a juvi, a juvi should have around a tank that measures 4 ft by 3 ft by 4 ft. While an adult would need 5 ft by 3 ft by 6-8 ft and would be very comfortable in the cage. Timors like to be in branches they are an arboreal species, more branches for them to hide in the safer they will feel, reason for why you need a much taller cage. Lots of plants and branches, and add a few cork bark circles and they will be a much happier monitor.
> 
> Heating/lights/Temps/humidity-Hot spot should be 120-130 degrees at the basking spot, the warm side should sit at around 90 degrees, and the cool end around 80-85 degrees. There is a a few discussions on if monitors need uv lights, i never used any uv lights for my rough neck and my argus pair, and last time i heard P.E. doesnt use uv lights either and they produced A LOT of different monitor species(robyn correct me if im wrong). You should have day lights and night lights, night time can be done by ceramic lights but do not need to be set at the same temps as the day lights, 85-78 degrees for night would be ok. timors require a higher humidity compared to other monitors humidity should be 75-85%.
> 
> Substrate- while i agree with a lot of people that monitors do like to be able to burrow, most arboreal species usually don't, they are more comfortable in tree,hence why you need lots of branches/hides up top. a substrate that is 6-10 inches would work fine. a mixture of 50% dirt 40% sand 10% potting soil will work great, it will help keep the humidity up in the cage.
> 
> water- Most people who deal with monitors will tell you, you will be caging the water bowl at min every day. they will poop, put substrate into this water bowl and make it more of a nasty sludge instead of clean water. I always provided a good side water bowl, large cat little pans work wonders, they are big and cheap. for my argus monitor they each got one, and were bathed once a week in the bath tub for 20-30 mins to make sure they stayed properly hydrated.
> ...


See that was helpful and I appreciate it.
It wasn't an impulse buy.I researched it online.
The people I bought this from and other people I talked to and some care sheets say they are not Arboreal and that they climb very little.
So hence the reason I might have an incorrect setup. I did do research but apparently I was very misinformed which is pretty annoying.
Ill make the changes and hopefully it will all be ok.
Side note: Where can I get a cage of those proportions? 
Thanks!

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## infernalis

Screen tops are bad because they allow all the humidity to escape.

 The Indonesian climate is like Miami, only hotter. 



 All varanid species live quite close to the equator, where it is hot and humid.

 When you open up a monitor enclosure, the heat should belt you in the face like stepping off an air conditioned plane in Rio.

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## Skiploder

> Skiploder,
> First all Id like to let you know that I did in fact do my homework. 
> I dont buy reptiles without understanding what they need and how to care for them.
> Ive looked at multiple sources online as well as talking with owners face to face regarding Timor Monitors.
> I have never seen anything that says screen tops are bad. Not saying your wrong, Im just saying I never read that anywhere before, but now I know. Can you explain in more detail why they are bad?
> Also I said my basking spot was 100+ meaning it goes higher than 100. On the lower parts its 100 and then it goes up as you get higher and centered under the light. My humidity is being improved.
> Everything you just said was actually really helpful and next time you should just say that first.
> I care for many other reptiles at home and I actually know what Im doing, but this is my first monitor hence the reason I asked for tips from you guys who own or have owned.
> I posted on this site to make sure I was doing ok because I did do my research but its good to also get opinions and tips from actual owners with a lot of experience.
> ...


So now we are condemning animals to suffer through our learning curve?  This is a trial and error thing?  You get to figure this husbandry thing out while the animal suffers?  BS.

You did not do your homework and your description of a 60 gallon glass tank with a screen top will condemn this animal to horrible fate.  If there is one cardinal rule in varanid keeping, it is first and foremost no screen tops.  Stop posting how this is somehow some secret squirrel info that only a few people in the know are aware of.  More evidence that you did not do your homework as is the fact that you had no idea they were arboreal.

Reading a couple crappy caresheets written by someone who copied that bad information from another dimwitted cementhead does not mean you did your homework.  You have succeeded in forging ahead with buying an animal and sticking it into a lizard jerky machine.  In the time that I started posting on this thread what have you changed?  What have you learned?  Before you post again whining about what a jackass I am, do something constructive instead - fix the gross husbandry errors you have described.  Then if you want to come back and flap your gums about my bad bedside manner, go for it.  But first do something to make life for that poor animal better.

Timor monitors are not a beginner animal, no matter what some uninformed dip wad wrote on some forum - no varanid is a "beginner" animal.  A timor needs a basking spot properly MEASURED at 135 to 150 degrees, a timor will burrow into a proper substrate to rehydrate in the absence of moving water and timors like to climb.  You need to provide a wide range of environmental parameters correctly in a confined space or this animal will live a short and pathetic life.  Half logs and plastic vines are not the answer.  Proper heat, proper humidity, proper space, proper diet and proper substrate are the answer.  

Over a long span of time I have watched too many reptiles die because people arrogantly thought they had the right to buy first and learn later.  This bull crap arrogant idea that a person can own whatever the heck he/she wants and that animals are disposable and replaceable give people who want to take our ownership rights away an unending stream of ammo.  Stop defending your bad purchase and make immediate changes now.  Once you do something positive for this animal, with photographic proof, I will stop with the snark.  Deal?

(1)  Provide a proper diggable substrate that, due to the absence of water, the animal can burrow and hydrate.  Soil/sand and leaf litter mixes will work.

(2)  Provide a basking spot between 135 and 150 degrees.  The animal should be able to pick from several gradients via a Rete's stack or various cork tubes.

(3)  Prove a cool spot in the high 70s.

(4)  Provide an enclosure that will hold heat, hold humidity and the substrate.

(5)  A Rete's stack and/or bark tubes should provide enough security.

(6)  Provide a proper diet of insects such as crickets, roaches, etc.

(7)  Make sure the enclosure is big enough, but provides proper security.

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## JGB24

Ok so where can I get an enclosure matching the right measurements?
Should I build one? if so where can I find a guide on that?
or can I convert my 60 gallon and make it taller?
Whats the best way to go about that?
Also I forgot to ask what to make it out of since you said glass was bad.

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## infernalis

I just showed you mine, Give me a minute and I have some others that people gave me permission to show.

 Due to the requirements of your lizard, you will have to build the enclosure or have one built for you.

 I know a young man who spent 1500 dollars on a big useless cage built by a "pro" it would be great for almost anything, but a monitor is not one of them.

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## JGB24

How would I go about building one? How did you figure out how to make yours?

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## infernalis

> How would I go about building one? How did you figure out how to make yours?



 I gave it a lot of thought, got out the old tape measure and sharpie marker, picked up a new blade for my circular saw and went to work cutting lumber.

 For an arboreal animal such as yours, I would build the same thing, just vertical rather than horizontal.

 How high up is the ceiling in the room you will be putting it in?

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## JGB24

The ceiling is close to 10 feet.
How high should it be?

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## infernalis

Here is some excellent examples that will work perfectly for a Timor.

 This one is set up ideal.



 Notice that ordinary house windows were used, they are already framed so all you have to do is mount and caulk them.

 The bottom half is lined with the same plastic sheets used to make shower walls, it's sold at any home building supply store.



 Notice the use of 2x4 lumber rather than the 4x6 frame I used. This is much lighter and will work just fine at 1/3 the cost.



 The only thing I would do differently is I would pack insulation in the empty spots and put outside walls on it. Like this..



 Now here is another that would work well, it's just a tad more modest..



 I need to point out that you must seal the wood with a good quality acrylic wood sealer, I used Dutch Boy latex floor sealer on mine. If you don't seal the wood, it will rot quickly from the high humidity.

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## JGB24

Thank you for showing me those. You've been very helpful.
This is just mind blowing for me. Im actually really upset right now because I feel so lied to. The people I bought this from told me all this stuff and i wasn't prepared at all.
I honestly dont know If i Have the space or resources to build that.
I live in an apartment and I was told this would be great for an apartment. 
I dont want to give this animal a Crappy life so now I dont know what to do.
Maybe I should just sell it to someone who can actually care for it.
Im overwhelmed now and stressed. 
I really do want the animal to live happily and healthy. 
It breaks my heart.

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## JGB24

You know what, I'll figure it out.

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## infernalis

> Thank you for showing me those. You've been very helpful.
> This is just mind blowing for me. Im actually really upset right now because I feel so lied to. The people I bought this from told me all this stuff and i wasn't prepared at all.
> I honestly dont know If i Have the space or resources to build that.
> I live in an apartment and I was told this would be great for an apartment. 
> I dont want to give this animal a Crappy life so now I dont know what to do.
> Maybe I should just sell it to someone who can actually care for it.
> Im overwhelmed now and stressed. 
> I really do want the animal to live happily and healthy. 
> It breaks my heart.


 What breaks my heart is that this scenario plays out over and over and over again.

  The truth is, if retailers were honest, they would get stuck with a LOT of lizards that they cannot sell.

It's kind of obvious that I'm rather obsessed with the Savannah Monitors, this will make you sick... in the last decade over one million Savannah monitors were exported out of Africa (CITES documented) and sold for as little as $7 each to anyone with the money to spend.

of that one million animals, nearly all of them were dead before they were a year old.

 Pet shops will sell them to people with a modest size fish tank and a sack of crickets, then the proud new owner is happy for a few weeks.. Until they find out that this tiny gecko sized lizard is going to become a yard long beast with eagle talons for toenails, an insatiable appetite and caging requirements that very few people can provide.

 Timors average around $200 so they usually wind up with better homes, however the poaching in Indonesia and the "captive farms" (really animal laundering of poached specimens) is equally disturbing.

* How much room do you have available to use??*

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## Ga_herps

I have been reading through this and quite honestly I am going to give my 2 cents on the proper cage size for one or multiple adult timor monitors. I have many timors in my collection at this time. The proper cage size can be debated about until we are blue in the face but I will go with what has reliably worked for me for many years without a single death. For a single adult timor a cage measuring 3 x 4 x 4 feet high will work just fine. Now for an adult pair I increased the height to 6 feet and thats the only dimension I changed. Being that these monitors are super secretive I recommend you heavily plant and do not expect to handle your timors at all. I have one Timor the is very handleable out of all of them and that took years of work. She is my wife's little buddy now and hopefully will keep this tractable attitude after she lays her first clutch this year. If you need any other information please feel free to PM me. 
Michael

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_infernalis_ (08-14-2012)

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## infernalis

> *If you need any other information please feel free to PM me.* 
> Michael


 Wouldn't it be so much nicer to post your additional information out on the forum where others can make use of it??

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## 4Ballz

after reading this, I'm all good with just bps. wow. sorry OP you've had to go through all of this. however, imagine what would of happened if you didn't ask, so kudos for asking, even if it was with harsh results, were indeed needed to be noted. sometimes the truth stings, but we all come out alive from it.

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## MrLang

Check out this gem I stumbled across today:

http://bestpetlizard.com/


#1 Leopard Gecko
#2 *Ackie Monitor*
#3 Bearded Dragon
#4 Crested Gecko
#5 *Argentine Black and White Tegu*


I LOL'd... and then got pretty sad...

At least they list Savannahs as a bad idea?

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## Ga_herps

If he is seriuos about the timor then he would take the next step, that is the reason why I said pm me. If anyone else wants info on Timors they are more then welcome to Pm me. Now in the future I may post a few mini guides with pics which will help get people steered in the right direction. I think the bigggest problem people run into with timors is thinking that they will get something they can hold. Honestly out of all the ones I have dealt with only one is handleable and that took YEARS of work that the average joe is not willing to put into the skittish monitor they just purchased.

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