# Feeders > Breeding Rats >  UGG! I think my rats have lice...Help!

## mues155

Well this morning I was inspecting the baby fuzzy rats like I do everyday and I held one of the berkshires. 
I noticed little brown bugs stuck to his skin...friggin great :Rage: ! 
My dogs just had some feas and now it looks like I have rats with lice.
Im sure my adults have had the bugs for quite some time and just passed it to the babies through nursing...Is there any sort of oral or topical treatment available for rodents? I assume most people wouldnt care about this stuff but I dont want my breeders infested! And I dont know if this kind of louse can be spread to humans or my dogs etc. 
I was able to put a couple bugs on a paper towel and take some pictures. 
Keep in mind these are FUZZY rats, so the hair in the pic is a couple milimeters long if even. The bug is VERY tiny and was hard to see any detail with the naked eye.  If anyone has any info on a treatment or what to do I would appreciate it!

----------


## kitedemon

You might look into diatomaceous earth as a treatment. It is a mechanical treatment as it breaks down the exoskeletons. It is low toxicity and could be washed off before feeding if need be. It might not be great for pinkies as it is very dehydrating but adults and juvies should be fine.

----------

_mues155_ (05-26-2011)

----------


## shelliebear

Do you see any specs of blood  or anything on the mice? Sometimes I believe lice or other parasites will leave behind a little speck of blood from feeding on their host but this one is probably too tiny to see it. Some species don't even feed on blood but rather loose skin and debris on the host's body.
Another thing, if it is lice you will probably see "nits", the lice eggs. Live ones are white in color, dead ones yellow; check your darker mice and see if you can find any.
As for treatment...gosh, I have no idea what's safe for those little guys (mice). Regardless, try to stay away from any chemicals--they only increase louse's resistance to the chemicals, so the next person this happens to it will be harder to eliminate.
I can't help on the treatment any more than that bit of advice.  :Sad: 
Wipe down an adult mice you suspect of having lice with a wet towel and see what you find. I'd even try a special lice comb to see if you can comb any out to confirm they're lice before beginning treatment. 
Best of luck. Keep us updated.  :Good Job:

----------

_mues155_ (05-26-2011)

----------


## RichsBallPythons

Get a can of Provent a Mite and treat the cage when you clean the bedding. Should get rid of them if not might need to look for some animal lice sprays.

----------

_mues155_ (05-26-2011)

----------


## mues155

> You might look into diatomaceous earth as a treatment. It is a mechanical treatment as it breaks down the exoskeletons. It is low toxicity and could be washed off before feeding if need be. It might not be great for pinkies as it is very dehydrating but adults and juvies should be fine.


 Awesome thank you, I will look into that.



> Wipe down an adult mice you suspect of having lice with a wet towel and see what you find. I'd even try a special lice comb to see if you can comb any out to confirm they're lice before beginning treatment. 
> Best of luck. Keep us updated.


Ill have to do that to all the rats and make sure every cage is infested, which im 99% sure they would be. I rotate one male per females so Im sure they all need treatment.




> Get a can of Provent a Mite and treat the cage when you clean the bedding. Should get rid of them if not might need to look for some animal lice sprays.


Thank you! I will look into that!

thanks guys for the quick replys

----------


## mues155

Heres a pic you can clearly see a few lice in the pic. Theres a HUGE louse under the ear of the rat pup on the left....just makes me mad I hate bug problems..

----------


## Foschi Exotic Serpents

Be very careful with the provent-a-mite around the rats though. It's highly toxic. A great fix is go to the pet store and pick up the mite disc for birds. Peel the paper off and set it (holes facing down) on the top of the  screen above the rats. Keeping a few of these mite discs around your cages or rodent tubs will help keep mites and lice away.

----------

_mues155_ (05-26-2011)

----------


## mues155

> Be very careful with the provent-a-mite around the rats though. It's highly toxic. A great fix is go to the pet store and pick up the mite disc for birds. Peel the paper off and set it (holes facing down) on the top of the  screen above the rats. Keeping a few of these mite discs around your cages or rodent tubs will help keep mites and lice away.


good idea! Ill go get some of those tomorrow, I never thought of those dics! Ill see if they work.

----------


## Foschi Exotic Serpents

I got the idea on a rat forum I was lurking at for info awhile ago. They said it worked so I figured why not? It's safe too because birds have incredibly sensitive lungs but the bird protector mite disc is harmless to them when hung on the outside of the cage. 

I have a problem with wood mites from bedding sometimes. Those suckers get on me and bite! I need to go pick up some more myself.

----------


## mues155

Well Ive had birds since forever, so I know about the discs but never thought of them for rodents and such. 
thanks for the awesome idea! its on my list for tomorrows errands.

----------


## kitedemon

you might also toss a moth ball into the Garbage when you change litter then bundle up the bag and take it away. I hate all those little blood sucking insects... kill them all!


birds eat insects birds eat insects my personal mantra of why they should not all be eradicated from the planet...

----------


## lamina1982

You can use Revolution on rats-basically just a drop per and repeat every 2 weeks for 3 times.  Or you can give ivermectin injenctions weekly for 3 weeks.  Of course you needs some sort of vet acces for these.  Or work in a clinic

----------


## jasbus

Don't use Diatamaceous Earth!!!  That stuff is friggin messy as all getup.  You'll have dust everywhere in no time, and it doesn't work.  It does work on indivudual louse, but the amount you have to use, and dusting the cages, you'll hate the stuff...  Not to mention, while it is safe for consumption, breathing it in can be hazardous.  It works like little knives, rough microscopic edges, that break the louse's exoskeleton, causing it to dehydrate to death.  But, enough of it breathed in, can cause irritation to your lungs....  Trust me, I've been down that road...

As for Provent a Mite, yes the stuff works wonders, but it's too expensive to use in each cage, even though it lasts an entire month.  PAM is made with permitherin.  That is the mite/louse killing agent in it.  Go down to Home Depot/ACE/Lowes, get a gallon of Bed Bug and Flea spray, made by Hot Shot, uses permitherin, a slighly lower percentage, .2% to PAM's .5%.
Spray the cage, not the animals.  I spray around the edge of each tub every single week when I clean.  While it won't kill the mites on the rats themselves, they won't have anywhere to go, and will die shortly.  You will thank me later, trust me on this...  I've been using it for a long long time.  When I buy it, I always get funny looks, because I usually buy the store out!
I use it on my entire buildings, inside and out about once a month.  It works!  Don't try all the hocus pocus mumbo gumbo, they don't work, or barely work, I've tried them all.

As for infestation, rat lice are species specific, so they won't infest other animals, not even mice. Mice get mites too, but a different species. They will however, try them out!  We used to get a flare up every once and a while before I found the permitherin.  They will bite humans as well, but they don't feed on us, but it's annoying as all.

When we moved into our new buildings a couple of years ago, we got absolutely infested.  I brought in two seperate pest companies, one wouldn't even touch us for fear of killing animals, the other tried, but failed miserably.  Once I started using Hot Shot, they started dying off, and within a weeks period, were off the animals, looking for new places to go, because I couldn't spray inside my store(fish,birds,reptiles, etc) it took another week to 10 days before they died off completely.
I use it religiously now, and the absolute only time I ever see, feel a mite, is when I bring in animals from another source, and they don't last long.

----------


## jasbus

You can get ivermectin at feed stores...
But, I've tried that as well.  It does work, and work well, but it's a pain to give each individual rat an injection or a rice sized bite of the ingestible.  There's a pour on ivermectin as well, but it's too strong, even the sheep version, and it will kill alot of your animals...

----------


## cdavidson9

Those bugs look like fleas to me..  Anyone else agree? I thought lice were white. I may be wrong, but from lice checks back in elementary school I remember it being harder to detect them in blonde hair. Dont ask me how the hell I remember that and not my history tests..

----------


## jasbus

There are hundreds of species of mites/lice...
These are not human lice.

They do however, look more like tiny fleas...Mites, are super tiny.
Permiterin will take care of those too....

----------


## mues155

> Those bugs look like fleas to me..  Anyone else agree? I thought lice were white. I may be wrong, but from lice checks back in elementary school I remember it being harder to detect them in blonde hair. Dont ask me how the hell I remember that and not my history tests..


They are white on a paper towel when photographing them and they look brown on the rats. I think it probably has to do with them being full of blood (or maybe the little dark spot is just their innards) or because they are so transparant. 
Either way I hope the treatments you guys suggested will work on either fleas or lice.  :Smile: 
whatever the hell they are I dont want them!

----------


## snakesRkewl

Generic head lice bedding spray works well too, it's basically the same chemical.
Ivermectin works but won't kill the eggs so the stupid bugs just come back over and over.
Hot shots no-pest strips helps keeping them gone, as does spraying Pyrethrin once every 5 to 6 weeks.

----------


## Foschi Exotic Serpents

Jerry, do you use this on the bedding? I use it to spray borders around all my racks, caging, doors, and room perimeters in my reptile room, but I'm concerned with the toxicity of it. Is it really safe for treatment of bedding? 

I'm having a problem with wood mites right now. They get on me and bite. It drives me nuts. While I seem to only have them in that room due to bags of bedding and rat racks, I can't seem to completely get rid of them. Every time I think I have, they pop back up.

----------


## RichsBallPythons

Wood mites i take care of by using No Pest Strips under the racks. I rarely see them but if i do they dont last long.

And i have used PAM on my rats bedding years ago when my cat got fleas. Treated all the furry animals bedding let it dry and everything worked out well. Just dont feed live out of that rack  for at least a week to two weeks.

----------


## kitedemon

> Don't use Diatamaceous Earth!!!  That stuff is friggin messy as all getup.  You'll have dust everywhere in no time, and it doesn't work.  It does work on indivudual louse, but the amount you have to use, and dusting the cages, you'll hate the stuff...  Not to mention, while it is safe for consumption, breathing it in can be hazardous.  It works like little knives, rough microscopic edges, that break the louse's exoskeleton, causing it to dehydrate to death.  But, enough of it breathed in, can cause irritation to your lungs....  Trust me, I've been down that road...
> 
> As for Provent a Mite, yes the stuff works wonders, but it's too expensive to use in each cage, even though it lasts an entire month.  PAM is made with permitherin.  That is the mite/louse killing agent in it.  Go down to Home Depot/ACE/Lowes, get a gallon of Bed Bug and Flea spray, made by Hot Shot, uses permitherin, a slighly lower percentage, .2% to PAM's .5%.
> Spray the cage, not the animals.  I spray around the edge of each tub every single week when I clean.  While it won't kill the mites on the rats themselves, they won't have anywhere to go, and will die shortly.  You will thank me later, trust me on this...  I've been using it for a long long time.  When I buy it, I always get funny looks, because I usually buy the store out!
> I use it on my entire buildings, inside and out about once a month.  It works!  Don't try all the hocus pocus mumbo gumbo, they don't work, or barely work, I've tried them all.
> 
> As for infestation, rat lice are species specific, so they won't infest other animals, not even mice. Mice get mites too, but a different species. They will however, try them out!  We used to get a flare up every once and a while before I found the permitherin.  They will bite humans as well, but they don't feed on us, but it's annoying as all.
> 
> When we moved into our new buildings a couple of years ago, we got absolutely infested.  I brought in two seperate pest companies, one wouldn't even touch us for fear of killing animals, the other tried, but failed miserably.  Once I started using Hot Shot, they started dying off, and within a weeks period, were off the animals, looking for new places to go, because I couldn't spray inside my store(fish,birds,reptiles, etc) it took another week to 10 days before they died off completely.
> I use it religiously now, and the absolute only time I ever see, feel a mite, is when I bring in animals from another source, and they don't last long.


everything you say is true. It is a mess to deal with and dust is bad for you. PAM (aka Cic residual pressurized insecticide no. v) contains Permethrin which is fairly toxic to reptiles and at 0.50% is a CARCENOGEN in humans based on weigh of evidence assessments. I personally a little clean up is fine if I don't place my animals or myself at risk with out need. DE works it just takes some effort. I choose to avoid toxic chemicals when possible. 

ref. http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Detail_...17#Ingredients

----------


## jasbus

Whereas I do agree, you should avoid insecticides when possible, sometimes it's just not possible. 
DE works, I've used it for months at a time. It's inexpensive, and effective. But, having used it, I personally would never recommend it. That's not saying you can't recommend it, I don't mean to insinuate that. But, I just have to post my personal recommendation of it, and it can be taken or not. 
I used 2 50# bags of hthe stuff over about a years time or so. When I finished the second bag, I was still getting mites popping up. It only works when the bug physically comes into contact with the dust. With the amount of dust that covers absolutely everything anywhere near on or around the entire building you're using it in, it's amazing that even the rodents survive. 
Just way too messy to deal with in my opinion. I even had to throw out a window a/c unit that was absolutely filled with the stuff, even on the coils on the outside  part of the unit. Nasty caked on, flour like substance tha is horrible when it gets moist.

----------


## kitedemon

I actually have never needed to use that much! I only ever have had a few pharaoh ants that seem to be impossible (ok difficult) to kill anyway, some DE around the feet of the shelves and rack prevents the ants from pestering my collection. I can totally see your point. I have seen 3 snakes poisoned by insecticides used properly they are great but they are used improperly and the result is not pretty.

----------

