# Miscellaneous Herp Interests > Venomous Animals >  Newest venomous addition

## Neal

I thought long and hard all day Saturday at the show, and Sunday as well. I ended up buying her at the end of the show Sunday. She's a Black-necked spitting cobra(Naja nigricollis). I'm still debating on a name, so I'll also create a poll to get some input. Here's some pictures of her which aren't that great but it's all I could get before she got really annoyed and started spitting(not her fault as she was stressed).

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*Bogertophis* (03-25-2019),Craiga 01453 (03-27-2019),_Dianne_ (03-25-2019),_jmcrook_ (03-26-2019),_Pengil_ (03-29-2019),_Sonny1318_ (03-25-2019)

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## pbenner

Hots are cool, but i'm not there yet!  Very nice addition!

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Neal (03-25-2019)

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## Neal

> Hots are cool, but i'm not there yet!  Very nice addition!


Thanks, and take it from somebody who's been in the hobby a long time, don't be in any rush. I love venomous and I've been dealing with them since I was a kid, only a few years ago did I decide to start keeping venomous and it's potentially a life long decision, and it's got it's own down side of keeping them as a hobby.

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*Bogertophis* (03-25-2019),_Sonny1318_ (03-25-2019)

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## Bogertophis

I voted for Athena but I like both names:  what I usually do (to break my tie) is check a name dictionary & use the name with the more relevant meaning.

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Neal (03-25-2019)

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## Neal

> I voted for Athena but I like both names:  what I usually do (to break my tie) is check a name dictionary & use the name with the more relevant meaning.


Right? I did that and I'm still stuck on both lol. So I asked on facebook and figure I'd post here and go with whatever has more votes. I think Athena was winning 5-3 on facebook, so being tied on here it's 7-5 currently.

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## WhompingWillow

I don't think I can vote, as my daughter is named Athena and I have a snake named Artemis, so I obviously love both names.  :Wink:

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*Bogertophis* (03-25-2019),Neal (03-25-2019)

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## Neal

> I don't think I can vote, as my daughter is named Athena and I have a snake named Artemis, so I obviously love both names.


LOL. But you have to vote lol.

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## MarkL1561

Im just curious, why keep a venomous animal? I dont see how the risk is worth it when there are plenty of awesome nonvenomous species. Definitely not a pet at that point. 


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## Neal

> Im just curious, why keep a venomous animal? I dont see how the risk is worth it when there are plenty of awesome nonvenomous species. Definitely not a pet at that point. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Venomous animals are unique in the way they act and interact with their keepers. Sure they have many non venomous species, but if we're being honest, venomous has the best looking animals in my opinion. It's still a pet, while maybe not in your definition, it's still one in my book. I take my siamensis(Zeus) out and interact with him, and I will do the same with my nigricollis once she's settled in. Zeus especially knows that I pose no threat to him and because of that he's never spit or even tried to bite me. If I have company come over, Zeus knows by the different smell, because he won't come to the front of his enclosure like he does when it's just me.

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_Alter-Echo_ (03-25-2019),*Bogertophis* (03-25-2019),e_nigma (03-28-2019),_jmcrook_ (03-26-2019),_Pengil_ (03-29-2019),_Shayne_ (03-26-2019),_Sonny1318_ (03-25-2019)

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## Sonny1318

Congratulations and Athena all the way Bro!

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Neal (03-25-2019)

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## Bogertophis

I don't think venomous snakes are any MORE beautiful & appealing than harmless ones, but they're also not "less than"; you get a feeling of mutual respect- when 
you work with them in the right frame of mind they do seem to know us & realize we are safe room-mates.  The ones I've known...I didn't enjoy them "because" 
they were hots but rather "in spite of it".  And there's still some ways to interact with them safely, but for sure, they don't belong in most households.

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_MarkL1561_ (03-26-2019),Neal (03-25-2019)

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## Neal

> I don't think venomous snakes are any MORE beautiful & appealing than harmless ones, but they're also not "less than"; you get a feeling of mutual respect- when 
> you work with them in the right frame of mind they do seem to know us & realize we are safe room-mates.  The ones I've known...I didn't enjoy them "because" 
> they were hots but rather "in spite of it".  And there's still some ways to interact with them safely, but for sure, they don't belong in most households.


Right and it's a matter of opinions. I think bush vipers are the best looking snakes because of the way they remind me of a dragon. I had two but I wanted to solely focus on cobras because I can't work with vipers in the same with I can with cobras. Every cobra I've ever worked with will let you know what kind of mood it's in, a viper you can't really tell and if you get within striking range, you're likely to get bit.

As far as keeping, yes I think may people shouldn't keep because of either lack of being prepared or in some cases they get them for the wrong reasons.

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*Bogertophis* (03-25-2019)

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## Bogertophis

> Right and it's a matter of opinions. I think bush vipers are the best looking snakes because of the way they remind me of a dragon. I had two but I wanted to solely focus on cobras because I can't work with vipers in the same with I can with cobras. Every cobra I've ever worked with will let you know what kind of mood it's in, a viper you can't really tell and if you get within striking range, you're likely to get bit.
> 
> As far as keeping, yes I think may people shouldn't keep because of either lack of being prepared or in some cases they get them for the wrong reasons.


I'm partial to rattlesnakes & they can be read & even influenced once you understand them.  Don't get me started- I've known quite a few as they were native where 
I used to live in the desert.  I've only known one cobra, an albino monocled that was venomoid with every reason to have the attitude she came with.  "Moody" would 
be an understatement, but not her fault...the guy she came from was a disrespectful jerk.  Bush vipers ARE pretty adorable...

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Neal (03-25-2019)

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## Neal

> I'm partial to rattlesnakes & they can be read & even influenced once you understand them.  Don't get me started- I've known quite a few as they were native where 
> I used to live in the desert.  I've only known one cobra, an albino monocled that was venomoid with every reason to have the attitude she came with.  "Moody" would 
> be an understatement, but not her fault...the guy she came from was a disrespectful jerk.  Bush vipers ARE pretty adorable...


Indeed they are, and I've had rattlesnakes. I had one Crotalus tortugensis that was curious as ever, anytime I would touch the tank he would pop his head out, and come to the front of the cage and try to come out. Almost like he was trying to come get a hug(not really but yea lol). I just find it more enjoyable to work with cobras, and I'm able to read their behavior. When I had my two bush vipers and my horned viper, I never knew what to expect from them.

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## FollowTheSun

I have no experience in venomous snakes, but I couldn't help noticing that little Artemis  :Wink:  has a head scale pattern nearly identical to my black ratsnake, and very similar body structure! Very cool! Are they related in any way?

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## Bogertophis

> I have no experience in venomous snakes, but I couldn't help noticing that little Artemis  has a head scale pattern nearly identical to my black ratsnake, and very similar body structure! Very cool! Are they related in any way?


Not hardly, lol....many snakes have similar patterns...nature "keeps" designs that work.

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_FollowTheSun_ (03-26-2019)

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## Neal

> I have no experience in venomous snakes, but I couldn't help noticing that little Artemis  has a head scale pattern nearly identical to my black ratsnake, and very similar body structure! Very cool! Are they related in any way?


Not related, but very neat about the patterns though. She's goin to get big, though I hope she stays on the 5 foot side. I know they can get to like 7 feet. That's a big spitting cobra lol.

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## Bogertophis

> I have no experience in venomous snakes, but I couldn't help noticing that little Artemis  has a head scale pattern nearly identical to my black ratsnake, and very similar body structure! Very cool! Are they related in any way?


Cobras, like rat snakes, are active & fairly "out-going", but happily you don't have to worry about venom with a rat snake...just enjoy their personality.  We're lucky here 
in the U.S. in that most of our snakes are harmless...it's not like that everywhere.  Places like Africa & Australia have "more than their share" of venomous snakes, but 
no matter where you are, don't handle a snake unless you are absolutely SURE you know what it is [that it's harmless], since it's still possible to encounter a non-native 
snake that escaped captivity.  It's always good to become familiar with the "locals" in your area...but sometimes they still vary from photos shown, so if you're not sure, 
use a hook.

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## Bogertophis

> Not related, but very neat about the patterns though. She's goin to get big, though I hope she stays on the 5 foot side. I know they can get to like 7 feet. That's a big spitting cobra lol.


I have a couple of rat snakes (c/b males, Florida yellow x gulf hammock) that are each roughly 7'....I'm really glad they're not cobras!   :Very Happy:   That's a lot of spit...

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## Skyrivers

Name her Medusa! LOL.

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## SilentHill

she is sooooooo cute.

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## Bogertophis

> she is sooooooo cute.


All snakes are "cute"...but it's much easier to love (& care for) the ones you can safely handle.  And for any health issues, it's FAR easier to help the snake, also to get 
medical issues taken care of that you cannot handle yourself.  Don't miss what's special about the harmless snakes right in front of you to go in search of some mystique 
about hots... :Snake:

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_MarkL1561_ (03-26-2019)

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## Alter-Echo

> All snakes are "cute"...but it's much easier to love (& care for) the ones you can safely handle.  And for any health issues, it's FAR easier to help the snake, also to get 
> medical issues taken care of that you cannot handle yourself.  Don't miss what's special about the harmless snakes right in front of you to go in search of some mystique 
> about hots...


Are..... you trying to run "damage control" on the thread and keep people away from hots? You do realize everyone that shows interest isn't necessarily gonna go out and get one, right? 

Having said that, and having owned a few hots when I was younger, other than the mystique factor, they aren't all that different from non venomous behavior wise... many of the species have counterparts that behave similarly. Indigoes and cobras, gaboons and blood pythons.. behaviors between these snakes are not all that different. 

Still though, I think venomous species have their place in the hands of responsible keepers who know and accept the risks involved.

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*Bogertophis* (03-26-2019),_Pengil_ (03-29-2019)

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## Bogertophis

> Are..... you trying to run "damage control" on the thread and keep people away from hots? You do realize everyone that shows interest isn't necessarily gonna go out and get one, right? 
> 
> Having said that, and having owned a few hots when I was younger, other than the mystique factor, they aren't all that different from non venomous behavior wise... many of the species have counterparts that behave similarly. Indigoes and cobras, gaboons and blood pythons.. behaviors between these snakes are not all that different. 
> 
> Still though, I think venomous species have their place in the hands of responsible keepers who know and accept the risks involved.


I kept them (mostly rattlesnakes) for 20 years (safely!).  Just adding "balance"...hots need love too   :Very Happy:   but on a forum like this, it's easy for a few to make them into 
some sort of fantasy pet in their mind & forget the downsides, like finding a vet to help your "pet" when it's injured or sick.  Snakes of all kinds are pretty addicting- I'm 
just keepin' it "real".

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fadingdaylight (03-26-2019),_Shayne_ (03-26-2019)

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## Alter-Echo

> I kept them (mostly rattlesnakes) for 20 years (safely!).  Just adding "balance"...hots need love too    but on a forum like this, it's easy for a few to make them into 
> some sort of fantasy pet in their mind & forget the downsides, like finding a vet to help your "pet" when it's injured or sick.  Snakes of all kinds are pretty addicting- I'm 
> just keepin' it "real".


True.... I forget there are people who go out and do this without thinking some times... so many idiots with more money than sense... though I doubt one could talk sense into those kinda people anyway. 

It's illegal in my state to own venomous animals without a licence and they are only given out to scientists and wildlife educators, so I can't own them legally for hobby purposes anyway, so for me, they will always be a fantasy pet unless I move again. (Also jealous of retic and burm keepers in states where they are legal.)  :Taz:

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*Bogertophis* (03-26-2019)

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## Neal

Well I appreciate all the love she's getting. She's been hiding most of the day when I checked on her.

Venomous animals can be great, just it's a serious commitment that should be well thought prior to getting in, you have pros and cons of anything you keep. When you keep venomous, you're then regulated by a federal agency which also opens up your home to them whenever they want. It can be a very rewarding hobby though in itself.

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*Bogertophis* (03-26-2019),_Pengil_ (03-29-2019)

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## Bogertophis

It's really nice to "see" you around here again, Neal...it's been a long time -unless you've been lurking & I haven't noticed?  I hope you keep us updated & "don't 
be a stranger" here.

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Neal (03-26-2019)

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## Neal

> It's really nice to "see" you around here again, Neal...it's been a long time -unless you've been lurking & I haven't noticed?  I hope you keep us updated & "don't 
> be a stranger" here.


I come on every once in awhile, I do check the forums here and there, but now that work has situated I'm going to be more active.

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*Bogertophis* (03-26-2019)

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## MarkL1561

> Well I appreciate all the love she's getting. She's been hiding most of the day when I checked on her.
> 
> Venomous animals can be great, just it's a serious commitment that should be well thought prior to getting in, you have pros and cons of anything you keep. When you keep venomous, you're then regulated by a federal agency which also opens up your home to them whenever they want. It can be a very rewarding hobby though in itself.


Yeah not worth it imo Personally I dont think normal citizens should be able to keep venomous animals in their residence. Its dangerous for the keeper and anyone else in the house. Theres no way to ensure that whoever purchases these animals take the necessary precautions and others including children could potentially be at risk. Also, it requires nearby hospitals to carry anti venom that they normally wouldnt. Im sure this would jack up your insurance as well. Theres also the risk of the animal getting out and even potentially becoming invasive in certain areas. Imagine having a situation like the berms but with a venomous species. I really think they should only be housed in professional settings like zoos. If you really want to work with venomous species then go through the required steps to become a herpetologist. So far I havent heard a single argument that logically validates owning these animals. Leave these guys to professionals. Im certain Ill receive hate for this but come on... if you just sit back and think about it its not worth the risk. 
What if the snake escaped and killed your dog or even your child? Im guessing people might regret their purchase then. Stick to harmless species, this hobby doesnt need anymore bad press. 


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## Dianne

> Im sure this would jack up your insurance as well.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


From the insurance perspective, it is more likely to get your policy cancelled than the rate increased if you havent disclosed your pets up front.  Most homeowners or renters policies either completely exclude animal liability (_any_ animal), or provide very limited liabilty coverage geared towards domesticated pets (but excluding vicious breeds, live stock, and exotic pets).  There are probably specialized companies where you could purchase coverage, or possibly add on coverage you could purchase, but nothing I know of that is automatically inclusive for exotics.

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*Bogertophis* (03-27-2019)

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## MarkL1561

> From the insurance perspective, it is more likely to get your policy cancelled than the rate increased if you havent disclosed your pets up front.  Most homeowners or renters policies either completely exclude animal liability (_any_ animal), or provide very limited liabilty coverage geared towards domesticated pets (but excluding vicious breeds, live stock, and exotic pets).  There are probably specialized companies where you could purchase coverage, or possibly add on coverage you could purchase, but nothing I know of that is automatically inclusive for exotics.


I was referring to health insurance. Im assuming if they knew you had a venomous animal, which they would if you had to register it and notify hospitals, they would raise your rate or drop you. 


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## Neal

> Yeah not worth it imo Personally I don’t think normal citizens should be able to keep venomous animals in their residence. It’s dangerous for the keeper and anyone else in the house. There’s no way to ensure that whoever purchases these animals take the necessary precautions and others including children could potentially be at risk. Also, it requires nearby hospitals to carry anti venom that they normally wouldn’t. I’m sure this would jack up your insurance as well. There’s also the risk of the animal getting out and even potentially becoming invasive in certain areas. Imagine having a situation like the berms but with a venomous species. I really think they should only be housed in professional settings like zoos. If you really want to work with venomous species then go through the required steps to become a herpetologist. So far I haven’t heard a single argument that logically validates owning these animals. Leave these guys to professionals. I’m certain I’ll receive hate for this but come on... if you just sit back and think about it it’s not worth the risk. 
> What if the snake escaped and killed your dog or even your child? I’m guessing people might regret their purchase then. Stick to harmless species, this hobby doesn’t need anymore bad press. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You can have your opinions, I'm sure many people don't think normal citizens should keep any animal period. I'm glad you feel the way you do, but unfortunately, if you don't agree with what I keep feel free to move on to another post. I don't need somebody who doesn't know or understand things to come on my thread and posting some junk. Thanks and have a good day.  :Smile:

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_Alter-Echo_ (03-26-2019),_Dianne_ (03-26-2019),_jmcrook_ (03-26-2019),_Pengil_ (03-29-2019)

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## Bogertophis

> Yeah not worth it imo Personally I don’t think normal citizens should be able to keep venomous animals in their residence. It’s dangerous for the keeper and anyone else in the house. There’s no way to ensure that whoever purchases these animals take the necessary precautions and others including children could potentially be at risk. Also, it requires nearby hospitals to carry anti venom that they normally wouldn’t. I’m sure this would jack up your insurance as well. There’s also the risk of the animal getting out and even potentially becoming invasive in certain areas. Imagine having a situation like the berms but with a venomous species. I really think they should only be housed in professional settings like zoos. If you really want to work with venomous species then go through the required steps to become a herpetologist. So far I haven’t heard a single argument that logically validates owning these animals. Leave these guys to professionals. I’m certain I’ll receive hate for this but come on... if you just sit back and think about it it’s not worth the risk. 
> What if the snake escaped and killed your dog or even your child? I’m guessing people might regret their purchase then. Stick to harmless species, this hobby doesn’t need anymore bad press. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This thread wasn't started by me but as a previous long-time keeper of hots, I'd like to address some of the points you brought up, & offer another perspective.

It was NEVER on my wish list to be involved with any venomous snakes, but I moved to a part of the desert Southwest where 6 kinds of rattlesnakes also resided.They got into people's yards, garages & even houses in a misguided effort to just survive, & one way or another it often didn't end well.  People with no experience trying to move or kill snakes is a recipe for injury, moreover it's disrespectful to animals that were there first & served as a relevant part of the ecosystem.  I didn't want any snakes, harmless or venomous, to be killed or injured, nor for the same to befall my neighbors.  What then to do?  

About that time I was offered (& talked into accepting) a rattlesnake that could not be released & was unwanted by the current owner.  I honed my skills with that one, & thereafter offered free help to local residents to remove & re-locate (unharmed) any snakes, including rattlesnakes.  I also ended up with various non-native pets that owners no longer wanted, including BPs.  I soon did many educational programs by invitation, most at our local nature museum, some with harmless-only snakes, & others that focused on rattlesnakes & for which I typically took one of each kind* of our local rattlesnakes to show & talk about.  (*I ended up with other un-releasable ones too.) I didn't start out as a "professional" with rattlesnakes+ but I saw a need & filled it.  No children in my household, btw...& I have MORE than a healthy respect for self-preservation.

I can appreciate where you're coming from though:  I'd have no objection if all states had the same strict regulations for private individuals keeping hots.  As it was, it was not an issue where I lived (not in town!) & the only permits I had to apply for were for some non-local & non-native hots that were essentially dumped on me.  I was never at odds with Fish & Game or other laws.  Since I did so many public programs though it IS a wonder that my home insurance never hassled me.  My local agent knew me though, knew what I was about & how careful I was (& am).  For that matter, I had 4 big dogs & was never charged extra for that either.  I do agree that the sales of hots should be regulated carefully...to protect humans and also the snakes from improper care.  I can remember the time a young woman keeping a gaboon viper (illegal where she was- a heavily-populated area) was found dead from a bite.  You're correct that we don't need any more bad press about snakes.  Statistically, most such bites are sustained by young males, but either way, it should never be about "proving oneself".  Requiring permits like the one I had to get takes care of that: after an interview, the application was extensive...I submitted something like a 'term paper' about what I was doing & why- I was very specific.  I had to have references including a local vet.  And then an agent inspected my home & caging, filed a report, & reserved the right to check back without notice (-they never felt the need).  BTW, the permits weren't cheap & had to be renewed yearly.   :Wink: 

You mentioned that hospitals are somehow required to carry antivenom to treat such bites, but that's not true.  Of course, they did where I lived since rattlesnakes were native, but they would not have carried any for cobras etc.  In case of an accident, a treating hospital would likely obtain it from the nearest zoo, which would then diminish the zoo's ability to respond adequately if a bite happened to occur before they could replace what was used.  I'm sure you know that the cost of such treatments are astronomical & anyone without insurance will be in huge financial trouble.  Even with insurance, hard to say how much they cover.  The risks are not to be taken lightly, which is why keeping hots requires sobriety & maturity...but it can be done safely and with dedication. 

One of the long-term captive rattlesnakes that was turned over to me came shortly after a modest earthquake (so typical in So. Calif.).  The explanation was that they decided it now HAD to go...they suddenly realized that the cage could have turned over in the 'quake releasing a scared & upset snake in their home- that it was just luck that it didn't happen that time.   :Wink:   So yes, it's not a decision to take lightly.   :Snake:   I'm happy to say that none of my hots ever escaped, but I had no sooner visited a special rattlesnake exhibit (with WAY too many captured for the 'show'  :Sad: ) in a Palm Springs museum when I learned that I'd only just missed it:  the "professional" in charge had allowed the escape of one rattlesnake, & then failed to close the premises until it was found.  It surprised a woman viewing their room-sized "diorama" which was NOT enclosed behind glass...it had only a 6" curb along the floor.   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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*bcr229* (03-27-2019),_Dianne_ (03-27-2019),_distaff_ (03-27-2019),_Pengil_ (03-29-2019)

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## Neal

Anyways, let's keep the thread on topic. He gave a lot of wrong information out, and it's because he doesn't know anything regarding that subject. Also because of that, he needs to do some research before he starts to post.

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## Neal

> Yeah not worth it imo Personally I dont think normal citizens should be able to keep venomous animals in their residence. Its dangerous for the keeper and anyone else in the house. Theres no way to ensure that whoever purchases these animals take the necessary precautions and others including children could potentially be at risk. Also, it requires nearby hospitals to carry anti venom that they normally wouldnt. Im sure this would jack up your insurance as well. Theres also the risk of the animal getting out and even potentially becoming invasive in certain areas. Imagine having a situation like the berms but with a venomous species. I really think they should only be housed in professional settings like zoos. If you really want to work with venomous species then go through the required steps to become a herpetologist. So far I havent heard a single argument that logically validates owning these animals. Leave these guys to professionals. Im certain Ill receive hate for this but come on... if you just sit back and think about it its not worth the risk. 
> What if the snake escaped and killed your dog or even your child? Im guessing people might regret their purchase then. Stick to harmless species, this hobby doesnt need anymore bad press. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Also, since I'm at a computer now, I'll actually feel free to give you a lesson today since you are posting stuff as if you actually know it to be true when in fact it's not. So before I begin, if you're going to post on my threads, do some research.

1.) Actually in order to obtain a permit here in Louisiana, you have to provide proof of at least 1,000 hours of documented experience in working with venomous.
2.) About your dangerous for the keeper or anyone else in the house. I can die from a drunk driver or get struck by lightning walking out in a thunderstorm, everything has it's own risks. It's also not dangerous to anybody in the house if you follow the rules set forth on the permit, hence being responsible. This means you're not going to have your animals or kids in the room when you have your venomous snake out.
3.) It does not require hospitals to carry antivenin of anything that I keep, this is one of the things you should of actually researched before posting, because as I stated in another post, you clearly don't know or understand anything about venomous keeping.
4.) Housing insurance has nothing to do with me keeping my venomous snakes.
5.) I don't want to be a Herpetologist, and if again you knew anything regarding venomous keeping, I have went through the required steps to keep venomous snakes, and I'm also regulated by Louisiana Fish & Wildlife. Which means I have to abide by a certain set of parameters in keeping.

Some of the rules:
1.) Notificaion of relocation of facilities shall be made within thirty (30) days of a move.
2.) In the event of an escape of a restricted snake, notification shall immediately be made to the Department of Wildlife & Fisheries at #.
3.) A Secure transport container shall be required to transport venomous snakes away from any field collection sites.
4.) Restricted snakes shall be kept in a secure, escape proof enclosure with doors that lock, or such secure enclosures shall be enclosed in secure, escape proof rooms that are kept locked except when the animals are being fed, the cages are being cleaned, or otherwise worked by the person trained and experienced in proper care, handling, and use of the species being maintained. Entrance doors shall be kept securely locked on all outdoor enclosures to prevent escape and unauthorized intrusion and the enclosure shall be equipped with barriers to prevent visitors from falling into the enclosures that are constructed below ground level.
5.) Facilities that house constrictor snakes in excess of twelve (12) feet or venomous snakes in private possession shall be open to inspection prior to issuance of a permit and at other times deemed necessary to ensure compliance with the permit by Department of Wildlife and Fisheries personnel or other persons authorized by Department of Wildlife and Fisheries to perform such inspections.

So in the event you are actually keeping them how it's outlined in the rules, even if it escapes your care while having out of it's enclosure, it shouldn't escape the room unless you are in violation of the rules anyways. I don't need to have an argument of why I should or shouldn't keep. You don't make the laws, nor do you pay any of my bills. I also don't have any kids, and I don't have any other pets aside from my snakes.

With that being said, you stick to what you actually have knowledge about, and I'll stick to everything I have knowledge about.

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*bcr229* (03-27-2019),_Dianne_ (03-27-2019),_jmcrook_ (03-27-2019),_Pengil_ (03-29-2019)

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## MarkL1561

> Also, since I'm at a computer now, I'll actually feel free to give you a lesson today since you are posting stuff as if you actually know it to be true when in fact it's not. So before I begin, if you're going to post on my threads, do some research.
> 
> 1.) Actually in order to obtain a permit here in Louisiana, you have to provide proof of at least 1,000 hours of documented experience in working with venomous.
> 2.) About your dangerous for the keeper or anyone else in the house. I can die from a drunk driver or get struck by lightning walking out in a thunderstorm, everything has it's own risks. It's also not dangerous to anybody in the house if you follow the rules set forth on the permit, hence being responsible. This means you're not going to have your animals or kids in the room when you have your venomous snake out.
> 3.) It does not require hospitals to carry antivenin of anything that I keep, this is one of the things you should of actually researched before posting, because as I stated in another post, you clearly don't know or understand anything about venomous keeping.
> 4.) Housing insurance has nothing to do with me keeping my venomous snakes.
> 5.) I don't want to be a Herpetologist, and if again you knew anything regarding venomous keeping, I have went through the required steps to keep venomous snakes, and I'm also regulated by Louisiana Fish & Wildlife. Which means I have to abide by a certain set of parameters in keeping.
> 
> Some of the rules:
> ...


Take a chill pill  If youre willing to take the risk without good reason all the power to you. Nothing I said was false..... you are not required to contact hospitals but itd be smart if you dont want to risk death. It sounds like YOU went through the proper motions and are heavily regulated by your state. Although remember that not all states and keepers are the same. You can justify your animals anyway you want but theres no reason to have venomous animals. Sometimes we need to pause and realize every hobby has its limits. For example weapons, a normal citizen having a rpg or a tank is too far  Also, you said you dont take your snakes out around your kids. Well what if it escapes? What if your kid breaks into the enclosure? Kids will do stupid crap no matter how many times you tell them not to. Good luck man The only reason I posted is because there are a lot of young/new keepers on here. You creating threads promoting how cool these animals are can result in people getting the wrong idea. 99% of keepers should not keep venomous snakes imo. They should be left to professionals kept for specific reasons such as rehabilitation, education, etc. Keeping deadly animals isnt cool, its stupid. Its like those people that keep lions and say how theyre big teddy bears until it eats their kid. 
Well.... anywho good day and I will leave your threads alone. 


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## Houhoubb

I agree, venomous animals are far more prettier than non venomous ones. Especially snakes, and cobra is the most beautiful imao. And its not just subjective opinion. Venomous animals meant to be standing out to alert everyone right? I dont know about this species well, but i am surprised to see this tiny gutter-snake looking cobra still got a beautiful cobra head! I love it!

Although i wouldn't keep venomous snake when i live with my children... it's not my business as long as the snake stays in the owner's house! I like America because one of the fundamental is 'mind your own business'  :Smile:  

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## Neal

> Take a chill pill  If youre willing to take the risk without good reason all the power to you. Nothing I said was false..... you are not required to contact hospitals but itd be smart if you dont want to risk death. It sounds like YOU went through the proper motions and are heavily regulated by your state. Although remember that not all states and keepers are the same. You can justify your animals anyway you want but theres no reason to have venomous animals. Sometimes we need to pause and realize every hobby has its limits. For example weapons, a normal citizen having a rpg or a tank is too far  Also, you said you dont take your snakes out around your kids. Well what if it escapes? What if your kid breaks into the enclosure? Kids will do stupid crap no matter how many times you tell them not to. Good luck man The only reason I posted is because there are a lot of young/new keepers on here. You creating threads promoting how cool these animals are can result in people getting the wrong idea. 99% of keepers should not keep venomous snakes imo. They should be left to professionals kept for specific reasons such as rehabilitation, education, etc. Keeping deadly animals isnt cool, its stupid. Its like those people that keep lions and say how theyre big teddy bears until it eats their kid. 
> Well.... anywho good day and I will leave your threads alone. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I am chill, my hostility that you took is from you coming here and spewing things you have no knowledge on. You did say something false and myself along with one other person pointed it out. You stated hospitals are required to keep antivenin they wouldn't normally stock. That's false, aka you spreading information you have no clue about. Hospitals aren't required to store anything. I don't disagree with the fat that 99% of keepers shouldn't keep venomous, but if you're properly trained, and are smart about it, then it isn't an issue. Also you clearly either didn't read what I said, or didn't comprehend, so I'll bold it for you when I said *I don't have kids.*. My snake can't escape, that's the reason the enclosures have to be lockable. You can't keep venomous snakes in an aquarium like you can a ball python. You actually have to have proper locking enclosures and if they deem it unsafe. This is also the reason the room is to be locked and closed when you're not in it, and it's to be closed when the snake is out.

If you want to make a better impression, come about things the right way, don't do it like you did. Also take that if junk elsewhere. If I won the lottery, if this happened or that happened. People are going to do what they want to do in the end.

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## MarkL1561

> I am chill, my hostility that you took is from you coming here and spewing things you have no knowledge on. You did say something false and myself along with one other person pointed it out. You stated hospitals are required to keep antivenin they wouldn't normally stock. That's false, aka you spreading information you have no clue about. Hospitals aren't required to store anything. I don't disagree with the fat that 99% of keepers shouldn't keep venomous, but if you're properly trained, and are smart about it, then it isn't an issue. Also you clearly either didn't read what I said, or didn't comprehend, so I'll bold it for you when I said *I don't have kids.*. My snake can't escape, that's the reason the enclosures have to be lockable. You can't keep venomous snakes in an aquarium like you can a ball python. You actually have to have proper locking enclosures and if they deem it unsafe. This is also the reason the room is to be locked and closed when you're not in it, and it's to be closed when the snake is out.
> 
> If you want to make a better impression, come about things the right way, don't do it like you did. Also take that if junk elsewhere. If I won the lottery, if this happened or that happened. People are going to do what they want to do in the end.


Welp...I definitely understand why you dont have kids  


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## fadingdaylight

In spite of the tension in this thread, I feel like it has presented a good bit of relevant information about the intricacies of keeping venomous snakes.  I have no intention of probably ever keeping them myself, but I do have respect for them, and I am enjoying learning about what goes into the care and keeping of them, so I appreciate the learning opportunity.

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*Bogertophis* (03-27-2019)

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## Cheesenugget

Keeping a pet lion vs a pet venomous snake is like comparing oranges to apples.  One is a 600+ lb of muscle and teeth, some owners allow them to roam free around the house or live with the household members, less predictable and can react aggressively without being provoked.  The other usually bites out of fear, more predictable for an experienced hot keeper who knows what to look for, and can't break through a secured locked enclosure.

I don't keep hots and have no plan to, mostly because I'm not a fan of display pets in general.  I think they are beautiful animals and most keepers who gets licensed to keep them earned their stripes to do so.  On the contrary, in most states you can pick up a lion cub with little to no experience.

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## distaff

> Welp...I definitely understand why you dont have kids  
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So, at this point, that's all you've got left for an argument.
That's not an argument.

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_Pengil_ (03-29-2019)

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## Neal

> Keeping a pet lion vs a pet venomous snake is like comparing oranges to apples.  One is a 600+ lb of muscle and teeth, some owners allow them to roam free around the house or live with the household members, less predictable and can react aggressively without being provoked.  The other usually bites out of fear, more predictable for an experienced hot keeper who knows what to look for, and can't break through a secured locked enclosure.
> 
> I don't keep hots and have no plan to, mostly because I'm not a fan of display pets in general.  I think they are beautiful animals and most keepers who gets licensed to keep them earned their stripes to do so.  On the contrary, in most states you can pick up a lion cub with little to no experience.


Exactly, but you can't argue with people like that who are blind and only see what they want.




> So, at this point, that's all you've got left for an argument.
> That's not an argument.


He never had one lol, he was making assumptions and using if as arguments, if the whole world flooded, if the whole world caught fire, yadda yadda. He was doing that reaching that those types of people often do to try to make something of nothing without knowing anything about the laws and such of keeping, and the requirement to get a permit.

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_Pengil_ (03-29-2019)

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## Jnksnakes

Man I didn't know you were coming to the show we should have caught up!

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## Neal

> Man I didn't know you were coming to the show we should have caught up!


Yea, I was there both days, pretty much the entire day for both as well. I'll be at the Lake Charles one as well if you're going there.

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