# Site General > Pet Related Laws & Legislation >  crossing state borders with pythons and reticulated pythons

## roxiewright

Hey everyone, my name is Roxie. I am new to the whole online posting but they guy at the pet place where I but all my food and equipment recommend it. I live in Kansas but am moving to Colorado in five months. Does anybody know if there are laws about crossing state lines with them? I have a young ball python and about a two year old that are regular. I also have a butter but she is still young as well. I will very soon be getting a reticulated python as a baby. I'm just curious if I'll have any trouble transporting them?

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## ajmreptiles

The ball python is fine to move across the state border. but the retic, as of right now to be able to cross state border you need to have been a member of USARK since at least April 8th, 2015 otherwise I would suggest that you wait to receive your snake until you move into your new home

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roxiewright (06-04-2015)

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## roxiewright

Ok thank you so much!  That was what I was debating....certainly is not worth trouble.

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## anicatgirl

A Kansas person!!! Hiiii and  :Welcome:

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## roxiewright

Lol yup😁 and thank you!

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## Yodawagon

But hey, you can smoke weed there. Go figure.

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## Rorschach

It isn't like moving to a different state someone is going to search your vehicle for snakes... or at all. Though it may not seem or feel like it, we are still America. Look into how and why this country was founded. Move your snakes and be happy, don't let the idiots running this country into the ground separate you from your passion.

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54bogger (11-19-2015)

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## Bluebonnet Herp

> It isn't like moving to a different state someone is going to search your vehicle for snakes... or at all. Though it may not seem or feel like it, we are still America. Look into how and why this country was founded. Move your snakes and be happy, don't let the idiots running this country into the ground separate you from your passion.


You should never condone law breaking, especially a felony, _online_.

To OP: Even if you receive a retic before moving and are not a member who is allowed to ship them, you can always find another approved USARK member to ship your retic for you. 
As of this time, ball pythons are not illegal to transport. However, there may be specific state laws that do regulate or forbid their transport.

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ballpythonluvr (09-22-2015),Gio (10-06-2015),Megg (09-22-2015)

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## MarkS

Just to make it very clear, in case anyone has forgotten the Terms Of Service that they agreed to when joining this forum.  




> 8. No posts promoting illegal behavior will be tolerated, including but not limited to warez/pirating of copyrighted material, illegal drug or alcohol usage, and illegal ownership or trafficking of species.


The entire TOS can be located here -->  http://ball-pythons.net/forums/annou...t.php?f=89&a=9

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_Bluebonnet Herp_ (09-23-2015),dr del (09-22-2015),Gio (10-06-2015),Megg (09-22-2015),PitOnTheProwl (09-22-2015),Stewart_Reptiles (09-22-2015)

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## JoshSloane

The Lacey Act in and of itself is unconstitutional and is absolutely one of many examples of illegal government intrusion and regulation of the private sector. 

Millions of illegal immigrants flood across our borders every year, and we are supposed to smile and take it? Yet we should blindly follow laws that prevent us from bringing our pets to a new state? 

I live in Colorado, welcome to our amazing state! When you cross the Colorado/Kansas border on I70 you wont even realize you have done it.  There is literally nothing there.  Drive the speed limit and you wont get pulled over. A good soldier never leaves a man behind  :Wink: .

Note that I am NOT condoning or promoting any felonious activities, merely commenting on the situation at hand.

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## Stewart_Reptiles

> It isn't like moving to a different state someone is going to search your vehicle for snakes... or at all. Though it may not seem or feel like it, we are still America. Look into how and why this country was founded. Move your snakes and be happy, don't let the idiots running this country into the ground separate you from your passion.


Whether the law is just or not, the law is the law and encouraging people to break it or breaking it yourself will not help anyone, it will just add to the negative image snake owners are already suffering from and will only lead to more outrageous laws.

Do yourself a favor be a RESPONSIBLE KEEPER in private and in public, this includes the advice you provide to others.

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_AbsoluteApril_ (09-25-2015),ballpythonluvr (09-25-2015),_Bluebonnet Herp_ (09-27-2015),MarkS (10-07-2015)

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## distaff

Legislators will be legislators; doesn't matter if you are living in Ancient Rome, Bolshevik Russia, or post 9/11 USA...  Just offering some perspective.    

The TOS is an agreement members here choose to abide by.  House Rules.  I don't know the specifics of this board, but most of these are privately owned.  If we want to talk politics (which as a Libertarian, I really like to do), we need to do it on a different board.  Sadly, the folks on the politics boards I frequent have no interest in snakes.

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## duckschainsaw

Woo more Kansas people!

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## Bluebonnet Herp

> The Lacey Act in and of itself is unconstitutional and is absolutely one of many examples of illegal government intrusion and regulation of the private sector. 
> 
> Millions of illegal immigrants flood across our borders every year, and we are supposed to smile and take it? Yet we should blindly follow laws that prevent us from bringing our pets to a new state? 
> 
> I live in Colorado, welcome to our amazing state! When you cross the Colorado/Kansas border on I70 you wont even realize you have done it.  There is literally nothing there.  Drive the speed limit and you wont get pulled over. A good soldier never leaves a man behind .
> 
> Note that I am NOT condoning or promoting any felonious activities, merely commenting on the situation at hand.


Nobody is saying we should smile and take it. It's simply unwise to talk about breaking the current laws online where it is recorded indefinitely and where these posts can be used as incriminating evidence in the court of law. It also just makes us look bad, especially among those with an agenda who all too much do their best to portray us as wildlife smugglers. It's practically just handing them what they want.

We may not like the law, and there's a likelihood it's probably already been broken, but just like with recreational users of contraband - anyone with common sense would never, EVER talk about it where the discussion is being recorded, or condone it on such a platform for that matter.

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## JoshSloane

Well please don't call the thought police on me, God knows this country is already headed for an Orwellian nightmare.

To the OP:  I think you should be fine, as long as you watch out for the *reticulated python check points* as you cross into Colorado.  I've heard that across the U.S., on every major highway that intersects state borders, there are thousands of federal agents stationed at strategic checkpoints to search all vehicles for Reticulated and Burmese python contraband.  Don't let the desolate wide open fields of the Colorado/Kansas border fool you.  Even though you likely won't see anyone for miles around, there are rumors that there are SWAT units in ghillie suits camouflaged in the grass, waiting for the unsuspecting snake smuggler to attempt to cross a border. The federal manpower that the government is throwing at this is astounding.  Teams from the FBI, CIA, Homeland Security, Secret Service, Forestry and Wildlife, USDA and even private vigilante motorcycle gangs are all coordinating to prevent these snakes from crossing borders.  I wont even mention the scores of drones and satellites that have been taken off of terrorist cell surveillance to scour the lower 48 for possible python trafficking.   If you are brave enough to run this gauntlet, I recommend a disguise for the retic.  Maybe a hat, some sunglasses and a fake moustache would do the trick?  Likely having the retic out of sight in an enclosed tub will NOT be enough to hide him.   When you go through the checkpoint just stay calm.  Remember, even though these agents have absolutely no just cause to search your vehicle, they likely will anyways.  Keep in mind that they are now training reticulated python sniffing German Shepherds to find pythons at these checkpoints.  I do not advocate embarking on this danger wrought adventure, but if you do, good luck to you!

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_distaff_ (09-27-2015),Jeffco (09-27-2015)

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## Rorschach

Did not condone the moving of a reticulated or any other snake with issues in relocating. If you read the post you will see I said snakes, referring the butter. OP was curious about her ball python.

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## Bluebonnet Herp

> Well please don't call the thought police on me, God knows this country is already headed for an Orwellian nightmare.


It's not about being the thought police. It's simply that making these statements made in this online forum can and most likely will be used as evidence against you if you were to ever end up in the court of law. That's just the way the nasty judicial system works. 

For example, you could also post pictures of illegal drugs that you may be selling on Facebook, and no one's going to stop you from making that post, but if you ever end up in court over suspicion that you may be selling drugs, those prosecutors will bring those posts up.

If you ever end up in court over suspicion that you're doing illegal activities, such posts can be used in court as evidence against you, and increase your odds of being convicted. Not a good idea, especially if the law is considered is a felony. You can believe it's unjust all you want, but right now, it's officially the law of the land. 

And it's not even that you're talking about breaking the law, it's that you're talking about breaking the law _online,_ where it becomes written record forever. 

With that said, while I may not be the most literate person ever, this statement very much sounds like you're vaguely condoning law breaking, and if I can make the argument, then a lawyer definitely can:



> When you cross the Colorado/Kansas border on I70 you wont even realize you have done it. There is literally nothing there. Drive the speed limit and you wont get pulled over. A good soldier never leaves a man behind.


Let me break it down...




> When you cross the Colorado/Kansas border on I70 you wont even realize you have done it. There is literally nothing there.


"There's nobody out there to catch you/enforce the law."




> Drive the speed limit and you wont get pulled over.


"Don't give them a reason to search your vehicle."




> A good soldier never leaves a man behind.


"A good animal keeper never leaves their animals behind."

Now much like everyone here, I am vehemently against this law like everyone else. But we need to use common sense and be careful with the actions we take so not as to ruin our own lives and hamper the efforts of the community to fight these laws legally.

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## JoshSloane

If you cant see the sarcasm and satire in my previous post, then I am not sure what else to tell you.  

Thought I would get a few more yucks out of that one.  Guess its a pretty stiff crowd around these parts.

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## PitOnTheProwl

> If you cant see the sarcasm and satire in my previous post, then I am not sure what else to tell you.  
> 
> Thought I would get a few more yucks out of that one.  Guess its a pretty stiff crowd around these parts.


There are just certain thing that people believe in and work very hard for. 
Even joking about something in bad taste doesn't help those that might not understand why we fight so hard for our rights her in America.

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Gio (10-06-2015),Stewart_Reptiles (10-06-2015)

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## Gio

There are folks working VERY hard to fight for our reptile rights. 

My last discussion with some burm and retic breeders was fairly positive and they seemed very optimistic that the current regulations would be overturned.

While it is true you are not likely to be caught crossing state lines with illegal reptiles, it is also true that if you do, you will be arrested and charged with a felony. Whether or not you are convicted is another matter, but the snakes will be gone, and you will have done a huge disservice to USARK and all the people working hard to do things the right way.

The media will over dramatize the situation and you'll wish you never decided to try it.

It's as simple as getting a flat tire, or having car trouble. You don't expect it, but then you are on the shoulder of the road and here come the police to help you. Question here, question there and "Oh what's that"?

Most law enforcement isn't versed in reptile ID, but it's not worth chancing.

The hobby itself is looked upon by most as strange, and any excuse to put it in bad light and make it look like only criminals own snakes will be run with by the opposing special interest groups.

I 100% agree it is a ridiculous law but we need to hang tight for a bit.

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MarkS (10-07-2015),Megg (10-06-2015),PitOnTheProwl (10-06-2015)

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## JoshSloane

Having a Burmese python or retic in the car when pulled over does not incriminate you for crossing state lines with one.  Who is to say that you didn't purchase the python in the state that you got pulled over in?  The arresting authorities would have to physically catch you in the act of crossing the state line in real time.

This is an unenforceable law.

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## Gio

> Having a Burmese python or retic in the car when pulled over does not incriminate you for crossing state lines with one.  Who is to say that you didn't purchase the python in the state that you got pulled over in?  The arresting authorities would have to physically catch you in the act of crossing the state line in real time.
> 
> This is an unenforceable law.


Correct Josh,

But it is enough to establish reasonable suspicion and followup questions will follow and if probable cause is established things will go down the drain from there. It is the same for various other crimes that are not committed in the presence of law enforcement. 

Being the violation is a felony, more time may be put into the investigation to determine where it came from, where the person in question is from and where they are going. 

While it is probably the last thing on the minds of officers, it is a crime at this time.

Some folks troll these boards acting like they are into the hobby, but they are secretly building ammo to use against us. It is easy to pull up a history of posts here and use it against somebody down the road.

I think what the MODS are saying is don't draw attention to the board or yourself by advocating illegal transport, and I'm not saying you are.

I know you are "venting" man and I agree with you 100%. Far too many stupid laws and infringements on our rights is becoming the norm.

But the good news is we are fighting this the right way and appear to be making progress.

I joined USARK last year because I was tired of the BS and felt like standing up for our hobby.

I think our efforts will pay off soon!

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Megg (10-09-2015),PitOnTheProwl (10-09-2015),wolfy-hound (10-09-2015)

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## bcr229

> Having a Burmese python or retic in the car when pulled over does not incriminate you for crossing state lines with one. Who is to say that you didn't purchase the python in the state that you got pulled over in? The arresting authorities would have to physically catch you in the act of crossing the state line in real time.
> 
> This is an unenforceable law.


State and county LE doing traffic duty probably won't know (or care) whether or not you are legally transporting a Lacey species.

OTOH Tinley is coming up soon and it's already been reported on some forums that FWS will have a presence there.  It would be absurdly easy to walk through the parking lot and note any out-of-state license plates on vehicles.

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PitOnTheProwl (10-08-2015),wolfy-hound (10-09-2015)

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## JoshSloane

> State and county LE doing traffic duty probably won't know (or care) whether or not you are legally transporting a Lacey species.
> 
> OTOH Tinley is coming up soon and it's already been reported on some forums that FWS will have a presence there.  It would be absurdly easy to walk through the parking lot and note any out-of-state license plates on vehicles.


You still do not have a functional understanding of incrimination in a legal setting.  Being from out of state and having a lacey act species does NOT incriminate you.  These are CRIMINAL charges, not civil.  They would have to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that you actively transported banned species across state lines.  That means EVIDENCE directly showing you PHYSICALLY crossing the state line with species in hand.  Showing up at a reptile show from out of state with banned species doesn't prove a thing.  You could have picked them up ten feet across the border.

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## PitOnTheProwl

> You could have picked them up ten feet across the border.


A smart and responsible keeper would not put themselves in that situation to start with.
My only questions are: Why are we still discussing illegal activity? AND Why do you continue to support trying to make those that are doing right look bad knowing there are so many good people fighting to have these laws overturned the correct way?

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_Dave Green_ (10-09-2015),_Felidae_ (10-09-2015),Megg (10-09-2015),Stewart_Reptiles (10-09-2015)

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## gtrdeath87

Uhhhg... Well I appreciated the humor.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

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## JoshSloane

> A smart and responsible keeper would not put themselves in that situation to start with.
> My only questions are: Why are we still discussing illegal activity? AND Why do you continue to support trying to make those that are doing right look bad knowing there are so many good people fighting to have these laws overturned the correct way?


Because it breaks my heart to have to see people leave their beloved pets behind due to absurd laws created by an administration that tramples our constitutional rights.  

The politicians on the hill in DC are not going to overturn this inane act just because all of you are good boys and girls, and don't break their illegal and intrusive laws.  You all seem to think that if you just tow the line, and point out the law breakers amongst the reptile community, that they will pat you on the head and give you what you want. Wake up. Writing your innocuous letters and sending 20$ to USARK is worthless. 

Use your brain, make your own fundamental decisions as to what is right and wrong.

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## bcr229

> You still do not have a functional understanding of incrimination in a legal setting. Being from out of state and having a lacey act species does NOT incriminate you. These are CRIMINAL charges, not civil. They would have to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that you actively transported banned species across state lines. That means EVIDENCE directly showing you PHYSICALLY crossing the state line with species in hand. Showing up at a reptile show from out of state with banned species doesn't prove a thing. You could have picked them up ten feet across the border.


You're thinking about the wrong end of the transaction.  Buying one from out of state and being caught on dash-cam leaving the state with it in your car would be the problem.

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## JoshSloane

> You're thinking about the wrong end of the transaction.  Buying one from out of state and being caught on dash-cam leaving the state with it in your car would be the problem.


Yes, that would be incriminating.  But imagine the man power it would take to follow every single person who purchased a snake at the event, and video them all the way to the state line.  Even at that, there would be no just cause for a search and seizure.

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## JoshSloane

> Uhhhg... Well I appreciated the humor.
> 
> Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


At least someone has a sense of humor and perspective here.

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## PitOnTheProwl

> Writing your innocuous letters and sending 20$ to USARK is worthless.


Dont go away mad........ LoL
An attitude like that is a good reason why no one wanted to help you ship.

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## gtrdeath87

People just need to lighten up. I have a suggestion for them that would greatly help their mood but we aren't condoning the propagation, use, or sale of any "illegal" substances. Regardless of what states they are legal in.

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## Stewart_Reptiles

It's not about lighting up there are enough irresponsible keepers we do not need people giving irresponsible advice because they think a law is not fair or not enforceable. Some of us are fighting VERY hard for our right.


*Now when it comes to this forum in case it’s still elude some it is against our TOS so the “do what you think is right, you are not gonna get caught anyway, condoning and or encouraging illegal activities (any type of illegal activities) will cease NOW or infractions will start being handed out by the staff and the thread will be closed. (that includes people thinking they are smart and can play around with words without violating the TOS)*

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dr del (10-09-2015),PitOnTheProwl (10-09-2015)

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## gtrdeath87

> It's not about lighting up there are enough irresponsible keepers we do not need people giving irresponsible advice because they think a law is not fair or not enforceable. Some of us are fighting VERY hard for our right.
> 
> 
> *Now when it comes to this forum in case its still elude some it is against our TOS so the do what you think is right, you are not gonna get caught anyway, condoning and or encouraging illegal activities (any type of illegal activities) will cease NOW or infractions will start being handed out by the staff and the thread will be closed. (that includes people thinking they are smart and can play around with words without violating the TOS)*


No no I disagree it is definitely about "lighting up"

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## MarkS

> Because it breaks my heart to have to see people leave their beloved pets behind due to absurd laws created by an administration that tramples our constitutional rights.  
> 
> The politicians on the hill in DC are not going to overturn this inane act just because all of you are good boys and girls, and don't break their illegal and intrusive laws.  You all seem to think that if you just tow the line, and point out the law breakers amongst the reptile community, that they will pat you on the head and give you what you want. Wake up. Writing your innocuous letters and sending 20$ to USARK is worthless. 
> 
> Use your brain, make your own fundamental decisions as to what is right and wrong.


LOL, you should say this out loud while thumping your chest and growling.  I'll bet THAT would make those pesty lawmakers stand up and take notice.    :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## JoshSloane

> Dont go away mad........ LoL
> An attitude like that is a good reason why no one wanted to help you ship.


No one wanted to help me ship because the moment I posted, Deborah brought the mighty hand of TOS down upon me.

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## JoshSloane

> It's not about lighting up there are enough irresponsible keepers we do not need people giving irresponsible advice because they think a law is not fair or not enforceable. Some of us are fighting VERY hard for our right.
> 
> 
> *Now when it comes to this forum in case it’s still elude some it is against our TOS so the “do what you think is right, you are not gonna get caught anyway, condoning and or encouraging illegal activities (any type of illegal activities) will cease NOW or infractions will start being handed out by the staff and the thread will be closed. (that includes people thinking they are smart and can play around with words without violating the TOS)*


Exactly whose side are you on Deborah? You're so worried about maintaining the scraps that your government hands you, that you're missing the fact that you're being stripped of your inalienable rights. And once again your demeaning comments to me are unacceptable and unappreciated. 

The irony of this thread is unrelenting. When the authority in charge doesn't like what they hear, they close it down.

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## JoshSloane

> LOL, you should say this out loud while thumping your chest and growling.  I'll bet THAT would make those pesty lawmakers stand up and take notice.


Hey someone has to have a pair and do it. Might as well be me.

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## Stewart_Reptiles

> No one wanted to help me ship because the moment I posted, Deborah brought the mighty hand of TOS down upon me.


Here we go again  :Tears:  :Tears:  :Tears: , If you do not like the TOS please be my guest and find a forum that will be better suited for YOUR needs after all you already said your goodbyes so I am surprised you are still hanging here complaining about our TOS anyway  :Confused2: 





> As much as I love what this site has to offer, I am going to have to say goodbye and delete my account.  It has become way too big of a time suck in my schedule.
> 
> Good luck to everyone and their herps!


Have fun.  :Good Job:

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## MarkS

> Hey someone has to have a pair and do it. Might as well be me.


Pair of what? Brain cells?

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## gtrdeath87

From an outside perspective why are all of you guys ganging up on this dude? He has a freedom of speech why are you guys taking shots belittling his opinion? He has a right to it and you guys are supposed to be "moderators" how can you properly moderate when your not being mature adults? All I see is you guys keep taking cheap shots at the guy and he is only defending his right to his opinion and at least he isn't making belittling snarky comments about your guys "brain cells" like a child.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

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## Stewart_Reptiles

> From an outside perspective why are all of you guys ganging up on this dude? He has a freedom of speech why are you guys taking shots belittling his opinion? He has a right to it and you guys are supposed to be "moderators" how can you properly moderate when your not being mature adults? All I see is you guys keep taking cheap shots at the guy and he is only defending his right to his opinion and at least he isn't making belittling snarky comments about your guys "brain cells" like a child.
> 
> Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


*

Freedom of speech is one thing however our TOS prevail, TOS that YOU agreed upon registering BTW, posting here is not a right but a privilege and anything that will violate the TOS will be infracted even if people want to start playing round words, and same goes for you if you do not like rules there are plenty of forums out there.*

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## PitOnTheProwl

> Hey someone has to have a pair and do it. Might as well be me.


Better be able to think as well. Trust me, its gets hard to not show em when I want to. 




> From an outside perspective why are all of you guys ganging up on this dude? He has a freedom of speech why are you guys taking shots belittling his opinion? He has a right to it and you guys are supposed to be "moderators" how can you properly moderate when your not being mature adults? All I see is you guys keep taking cheap shots at the guy and he is only defending his right to his opinion and at least he isn't making belittling snarky comments about your guys "brain cells" like a child.


Maybe you can research it for yourself. Not hard to find past posts.
Being a MOD here means enforcing the TOS and doing what we can to help in the hobby.

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## dr del

This thread is going nowhere sensible any more.

As for the "freedom of speech" issue it doesn't really apply as this is a privately owned site with T.O.S. members agree to follow when they sign up.

It's also on the internet which is trans-national and doesn't fall under any countries laws and jurisdictions.

But, since the arguments are now about outlooks and ideologies rather than helping anyone I'm going to lock it down. If anybody feels their contribution is vital PM it to me - but I make no promises I'll agree with you.



dr del

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Stewart_Reptiles (10-09-2015),wolfy-hound (10-09-2015)

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