# Site General > General Herp > Herp Broadcast >  People like this should be locked up

## 771subliminal

MELBOURNE, Florida  A 53-year-old welder on Merritt Island couldn't wait for animal control to handle a six-foot rattlesnake.

Instead, Robert Tyler took care of it himself.

Tyler spotted the diamondback rattler Wednesday while driving, then stalked it.

He said he came up behind the snake, pinned its head and cut it off with a knife.

The man, who says he has also wrestled the occasional alligator, did it to protect his neighbors. The snake was headed for a home where a woman lived with several small kittens.

Tyler knew it would've been gone by the time animal services got there.

"I couldn't take that chance," Tyler says. 

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...,7478077.story

Was the snake holding up a sign telling him it was going to kill one of his neighbors???

----------


## JEWSKIN

it sucks really it does and people like him should be locked up damn the animal welfare act not seeing reptiles  as equals to mammals ugh I absolutely hate this crap had it been a dog he would have landed in jail and a huge fine.  ABSURD IT IS!

----------


## mommanessy247

well, i see no problem being it was a venomous snake potentially heading towards another home. my dad used to kill rattlesnakes (maybe 3-4) every year, if they came too close to the house. he just wouldnt chance one of us kids getting bitten. now king snakes & red racers he'd throw back into the brush. he didnt just willy nilly kill every snake he saw.

----------


## 771subliminal

> well, i see no problem being it was a venomous snake potentially heading towards another home. my dad used to kill rattlesnakes (maybe 3-4) every year, if they came too close to the house. he just wouldnt chance one of us kids getting bitten. now king snakes & red racers he'd throw back into the brush. he didnt just willy nilly kill every snake he saw.


why not just tell the kids to stay away from them, cuz he wouldnt be able to find and kill everyone that they might come across, but by educating the kids your more likely to keep them safe

----------

Jhussey (04-17-2010),_joepythons_ (04-15-2010),_PurplePython_ (04-15-2010)

----------


## Russ Lawson

> well, i see no problem being it was a venomous snake potentially heading towards another home.


This sort of mentality (along with the irrational phobia of snakes by the majority of the population), is why we're seeing a decreased number of venomous snakes in the wild in the US. It saddens me that people think nothing of killing these beautiful animals when it requires less effort to call someone who could relocate them. If he's worried about it getting away before someone gets there, it's really not hard to put a bucket or something over the snake, then put a rock or something on top to make sure it stays put.

----------


## PurplePython

> This sort of mentality (along with the irrational phobia of snakes by the majority of the population), is why we're seeing a decreased number of venomous snakes in the wild in the US. It saddens me that people think nothing of killing these beautiful animals when it requires less effort to call someone who could relocate them. If he's worried about it getting away before someone gets there, _it's really not hard to put a bucket or something over the snake, then put a rock or something on top to make sure it stays put._


Yeah exactly. If he pinned it down and cut its head off, I am sure he could of just pinned it down and trapped it just as easily. With a bucket, or just held it down for the time being however he was holding it.

Its so screwed up that people are allowed to slaughter these animals.

----------


## NCtrickFL

Sorry I love snakes, but danger is danger.  I would rather him kill the snake than get bitten trying to trap it.  Human life comes first.  And I know the snake wasn't attacking the people, but some kid could have stepped outside onto it and been bit.

----------

_dc4teg_ (04-16-2010)

----------


## 771subliminal

> Sorry I love snakes, but danger is danger.  I would rather him kill the snake than get bitten trying to trap it.  Human life comes first.  And I know the snake wasn't attacking the people, but some kid could have stepped outside onto it and been bit.


your 21 and live around several hots have you stepped outside on one and been bit? how many people that you know personally have been bit? and im willing to bet that people in your area have not killed them all off.

dogs, cats, birds, squirrels, rabbits, raccoons, etc all can bite and can all carry some diseases that can kill you but yet people dont go out and kill everyone that is around cuz some kid might get bit.

----------


## mr. s

I would kill a rattler near my home as well. Yes, I think that the death of animals is a shame, but as mentioned before, the life of my family comes first.
I agree that education is important too, but I don't teach an 8 year old about gun safety and then leave the gun around. And I would NOT want that snake breeding in the area either. 
If I felt somehow that I could catch the snake, contain it properly and have it transported to distant farmland somewhere, I might try that. If I was worried about my own safety as I have never handled a rattler, and probably never will, I would not wait to call some kind of animal services to come to my house and tell me that they could not find it.
I don't think it'll happen to me, but that's how I feel.

Edit: I would kill a racoon or dog with rabies too if I knew they had it. No problem. Not all mammals or birds have those types of diseases. All rattle snakes have venom. Like I said, it is a sad truth, but a truth nonetheless.

----------

_dc4teg_ (04-16-2010)

----------


## AaronP

Snakes are in an area for 1 reason, there is a food source.  You want to naturally take care of that dangerous snake?  Release a non-dangerous snake that will EAT that snake ie a Kingsnake.

----------

exiled reptile (04-17-2010)

----------


## RichsBallPythons

NEVER EVER I dont care if its venomous or not kill a living animal cause its too close to your house. Ever hear of laws, all it takes is one person to call animal control that you killed a NATIVE species and now you have legal problems that could be avoided.


Capture the animal RELOCATE it to a safer place, never do they need to be killed, who are we to say what lives and what doesn't because it MIGHT cause a problem but 99% of the time their just PASSING though

----------

Charlie And Lucy (04-15-2010)

----------


## BPelizabeth

I live out in the desert and we have a preserves on both sides of us...even though it is a community.  We see rattle snakes on a yearly basis.  Personally scares the bejezus out of me.  We do teach desert safety and we teach kids not to do certain things.  One being...if the ball goes under a bush....get a rake to get it....do NOT reach in and get it.  Be aware when you are out in the desert ..listen and look.  We also take precautions to make sure that our backyard is blocked off.  We net off the holes in the walls that allow water to flow out....make sure our gates are tight to the ground etc.  If and when I see rattle snakes...we have a number to call so they are relocated.  However lots of others kill them.  We also have many kingsnakes here...those are treated like little gods around here.  

To me if it can be relocated...then do it.  After all...we moved into their turf.

----------

_771subliminal_ (04-15-2010),_Jay_Bunny_ (04-15-2010),_joepythons_ (04-15-2010),_Tikall_ (04-16-2010)

----------


## NCtrickFL

> your 21 and live around several hots have you stepped outside on one and been bit? how many people that you know personally have been bit? and im willing to bet that people in your area have not killed them all off.
> 
> dogs, cats, birds, squirrels, rabbits, raccoons, etc all can bite and can all carry some diseases that can kill you but yet people dont go out and kill everyone that is around cuz some kid might get bit.


When I was a kid I lived in Winston-Salem NC and I had some very close run-ins with snakes, venomous and non.  

My dog was struck at, and luckily missed, by a copperhead in my neighborhood.  My dad swiftly sent him into after life.

Then while on my bike as cottonmouth struck at me as I pedaled over a bridge near a lake.  

So no, I have never been bit but I have had run-ins with poisonous snakes.  And I have left the majority of them alive.  The only one killed was the one in my neighborhood.  The ones in the mountains and nature trails I've always left alone.

----------


## RichsBallPythons

> When I was a kid I lived in Winston-Salem NC and I had some very close run-ins with snakes, venomous and non.  
> 
> My dog was struck at, and luckily missed, by a copperhead in my neighborhood.  My dad swiftly sent him into after life.
> 
> Then while on my bike as cottonmouth struck at me as I pedaled over a bridge near a lake.  
> 
> So no, I have never been bit but I have had run-ins with poisonous snakes.  And I have left the majority of them alive.  The only one killed was the one in my neighborhood.  The ones in the mountains and nature trails I've always left alone.


Never heard of a poisonous snake before must be new. :Confused: 

Poisonous and Venomous are 2 diff types. Be sure you talk about the right one

----------


## Raptor

> NEVER EVER I dont care if its venomous or not kill a living animal cause its too close to your house. Ever hear of laws, all it takes is one person to call animal control that you killed a NATIVE species and now you have legal problems that could be avoided.
> 
> 
> Capture the animal RELOCATE it to a safer place, never do they need to be killed, who are we to say what lives and what doesn't because it MIGHT cause a problem but 99% of the time their just PASSING though


In Oklahoma, if there is a wild animal harassing your animals, i.e coyote, bobcat, etc, you can shoot it. Just have to call the game warden. Additionally, animal control doesn't exist in the country. 

I've killed venomous snakes before. Generally to protect pets. While I know to run the other way, dogs tend to be stupid and go "Thing in my yard! yapyapyapyapyap!". There's no one to call to remove the snakes and I'm certainly not brave enough to go and relocate it, either. If the snake is out in the pasture/woods/large ponds, I leave it alone. The house/small pond is a no go area for venomous snakes.

----------


## WingedWolfPsion

I replied to the article with the very obvious suggestion.

Venomous snake?  Drop a bucket on top of it, and call someone to come and remove it.  Safer than trying to kill it, or moving it yourself.  

(I would just grab my snake hook and remove the thing, personally.  Being bitten requires being within strike range, so as long as you don't get that close, you're fine).

If I lived in an area where venomous snakes were common, I'd buy tongs specifically for that purpose.

----------


## PurplePython

> Sorry I love snakes, but danger is danger.  I would rather him kill the snake than get bitten trying to trap it.  Human life comes first.  And I know the snake wasn't attacking the people, but some kid could have stepped outside onto it and been bit.


Did you even read the story? He pinned the snake down and CUT ITS HEAD OFF. If he was able to pin it down and cut its head off, he could have JUST AS EASILY trapped it.

He had it pinned down.... Its not like he did a matrix jump through the air and sliced it blindfolded with a knife. 

He could have easily trapped it but he chose to be a jerk about it and try to be a tough guy and cut the snakes head off.

----------


## mainbutter

So those of you who agree with the OP.. What exactly do you want to be illegal?  Killing of any and all reptiles?

I personally find the killing of non-endangered venomous snakes solely out of fear to be distasteful, but I'd never vote for a law to lock up people who do so.

----------


## PurplePython

> So those of you who agree with the OP.. What exactly do you want to be illegal?  Killing of any and all reptiles?


I never asked for a law to be passed. I just ask for people to use their brains instead of chopping off an animals head.... Is that too much to ask for? Compassion?

If a stray dog was walking past a house with some cats that live there, would you run up to it and cut its freggin head off?

----------


## NCtrickFL

RichsBallPythons don't be a nitpicker I wasn't very precise, but seriously man, everyone knew exactly what i meant.  

And this isn't what the topic is about anyway.  I agree, he could have done a more sustainable thing for the environment by not killing the snake...but he does not deserved to be chastised and blasted on here.  This is freaking pathetic.  Anyone on here that came out against this guy is a freaking hypocrite, unless you can honestly say you have never killed a mosquito or ant purposefully.  So really just back off and move on to a more constructive process.  Like trying to raise awareness OUTSIDE of the reptile community.  You're basically preaching to the choir in here

----------


## RichsBallPythons

> RichsBallPythons don't be a nitpicker I wasn't very precise, but seriously man, everyone knew exactly what i meant.  
> 
> And this isn't what the topic is about anyway.  I agree, he could have done a more sustainable thing for the environment by not killing the snake...but he does not deserved to be chastised and blasted on here.  This is freaking pathetic.  Anyone on here that came out against this guy is a freaking hypocrite, unless you can honestly say you have never killed a mosquito or ant purposefully.  So really just back off and move on to a more constructive process.  Like trying to raise awareness OUTSIDE of the reptile community.  You're basically preaching to the choir in here


Dont like it you know where the door is.  :Wag of the finger: 

Comparing a insect to a snake is kinda childish. Misquotes carry more diseases that a snake could ever dream of. Of course people will want them killed as they have no beneficiary factor to the wilderness cept transferring disease.

And yes we will ridicule this guy for how he handled it. Like stated if he could pin the head he could easily of relocated it rather cut its head off.

----------


## Tim Mead

What is common in nature today is gone tommorrow.. Then some will scratch their heads and wonder why thy neighborhood is over run with rodents or bugs..Never know where the next cure is coming from, might just be from the venom of a scarce rattle snake..Patience Grass hopper.. :Rolleyes2: 
# 1 destuctive organism is man then the house cat falls 2nd.. :Surprised:

----------


## Jay_Bunny

Yes, but we don't look at an ant on a tree in our backyard and go "OmG! That thing could come into my house and eat my food! I should kill it!" The man had the option of trapping the snake under a bucket or got a hold of it and put it somewhere until animal control got there. The thing is, he said he killed it because he wanted to be "macho man" and be able to tell his buddies that he saved some kids lives by chopping the head off a snake. If I ever move to an area that has venomous snakes, I will be prepared and always keep gloves, snake hooks, snake bags, and buckets around for such situations. If you are going to live around animals like this, then you need to be the responsible one and be able to handle yourself in such a situation. These animals were here first. WE are the ones intruding upon THEIR territory. These are living beings and they have every right (if not more of a right) to be here than we do. Respect them and if the situation calls for it, have the animal removed and relocated. There are very few situations that I would say require the animal to be destroyed.

----------


## PurplePython

Honestly how is there even a few people defending this idiot? He was clearly trying to act all big and bad by cutting the snakes heads off.... He pinned the head so he could have easily trapped it our held it down. He had no reason to cut the snake in half....

And yeah, comparing a snake to an insect the size of a grain of rice is pretty idiotic.

----------


## mr. s

I think both sides have expressed their thoughts and condemning one another for opinions and beliefs is not going to do a lot, ie, calling someone an idiot for making an example that they felt suiting.
Persuade someone, don't get mad. Thus far I have felt that there has been very little to influence my thinking and more to disliking the "discussion" process.

----------


## PurplePython

> I think both sides have expressed their thoughts and condemning one another for opinions and beliefs is not going to do a lot, ie, calling someone an idiot for making an example that they felt suiting.
> Persuade someone, don't get mad. Thus far I have felt that there has been very little to influence my thinking and more to disliking the "discussion" process.


If you are referring to my post, I called the guy who chopped off the snakes head an idiot. I never called anyone here an idiot.

And I also said comparing a snake to an insect thats the size of a grain of rice is idiotic.... Am I wrong?  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## JEWSKIN

quite frankly he could have simply gotten a stick and moved it away.....pinning it and killing it made him more of a man in his neighbors eyes as well as his own....if someone one sat on a pitbull and cut it's head off cause OMG it was heading for my neighbors house and gonna kill them or their kittens PETA would be all over it but because in most americans eyes thanks to the media it was just a stupid snake.....Had that happened here in az chances are he would have been hit with a ticket and or prison time thanks to having many endangered species of rattler thanks to macho men like him

----------

_PurplePython_ (04-16-2010)

----------


## PurplePython

> quite frankly he could have simply gotten a stick and moved it away.....pinning it and killing it made him more of a man in his neighbors eyes as well as his own....if someone one sat on a pitbull and cut it's head off cause OMG it was heading for my neighbors house and gonna kill them or their kittens PETA would be all over it but because in most americans eyes thanks to the media it was just a stupid snake.....Had that happened here in az chances are he would have been hit with a ticket and or prison time thanks to having many endangered species of rattler thanks to macho men like him


Exactly. Some stupid wannabe hard macho guy goes and "saves the day" by cutting a poor snake in half. Like that was the only option.. Cmon now..

Ignorant people nowadays

----------


## JEWSKIN

I don't know how many people like this I see a day that ask me if I have any snakes they can buy just cause they want to make boots, belts and wallets......I have actually ruined snake skin items people have flaunted in my face like they were all macho

----------


## Jeremy78

I'm on the side this guy had absolutely no right to kill this snake.
And comparing it to an ant or a mosquito is actually kind of childish... Now I could see if this snake was attached to my arm biting me then yeah kill it but randomly no. If I'm in my backyard and I see an ant hill o don't run over and destroy it... Same as I would never deliberatly go out of my way to kill a mosquito. 
Man I wish I was so brave to chop off a venomous snakes head... Pfft yeah right. Comon who is this joker? 
But seriously I live in Canada and here we have bears. If anyone ever saw a bear heading across the street near a neighbours house, pinned it down and chopped off it's head that person would be in jail. 
I think it's absolutely ridiculous that people will move to an area that has venomous snakes and think it's ok to kill every one that "goes near my house". If you don't like it, MOVE. 
Unfortunely the snakes wholive there don't have this option. I'm sure if you did as was suggested and put a bucket over it and called someone it would be VERY easy to find someone with 1/4 of a heart to relocate this animal for you.
Well I'm off to backyard. I think I just saw an angry raccoon looking at my neighbours house (they have a chihuaha). Don't worry though guys I'm tough. I'll just pin it down and hack it's head off.

Grrrr, Jeremy.

P.s. I'm also the guy who will catch the spider in my house and let it go outside rather then squish it in some toilet paper.

----------


## JEWSKIN

> I'm on the side this guy had absolutely no right to kill this snake.
> And comparing it to an ant or a mosquito is actually kind of childish... Now I could see if this snake was attached to my arm biting me then yeah kill it but randomly no. If I'm in my backyard and I see an ant hill o don't run over and destroy it... Same as I would never deliberatly go out of my way to kill a mosquito. 
> Man I wish I was so brave to chop off a venomous snakes head... Pfft yeah right. Comon who is this joker? 
> But seriously I live in Canada and here we have bears. If anyone ever saw a bear heading across the street near a neighbours house, pinned it down and chopped off it's head that person would be in jail. 
> I think it's absolutely ridiculous that people will move to an area that has venomous snakes and think it's ok to kill every one that "goes near my house". If you don't like it, MOVE. 
> Unfortunely the snakes wholive there don't have this option. I'm sure if you did as was suggested and put a bucket over it and called someone it would be VERY easy to find someone with 1/4 of a heart to relocate this animal for you.
> Well I'm off to backyard. I think I just saw an angry raccoon looking at my neighbours house (they have a chihuaha). Don't worry though guys I'm tough. I'll just pin it down and hack it's head off.
> 
> Grrrr, Jeremy.
> ...



lmao I  have odds on the racoon ripping ones face off lmao haha good show

----------

Jeremy78 (04-16-2010)

----------


## BallsUnlimited

would not of killed it. would have hooked it into a tub and either had animal control come and take it or would have driven and relocated it myself

----------


## Raptor

I love how almost everyone is assuming that every person in the world has experience handling hots and is comfortable doing so.

----------


## Russ Lawson

> I love how almost everyone is assuming that every person in the world has experience handling hots and is comfortable doing so.


You don't need experience handling hots to throw a bucket over a snake. Thing is though, in order to kill the animal, he pinned the head. That can be pretty dangerous if you don't know what you're doing. He risked hospitalization to kill an animal that was minding its own business, just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Had he placed a bucket over the animal and called someone to remove it, there would have been essentially no risk to himself. I don't care who you are, you don't need any experience with any sort of snake to place a bucket over it. I've had neighbors do far more than that before having me remove snakes. One placed a "cottonmouth" (which was actually a green water snake) in a cooler before I got there to remove it.

----------


## Raptor

That's..a pretty big bucket to be putting over a fully grown, 4-5 foot cotton mouth (ones that are pretty aggressive too). Don't know about where you live, but the ones here are pretty hefty in body girth. A 5 gallon bucket wouldn't be big enough, even if it was curled up. Either way, not everyone is fortunate enough to live near animal control or have someone who knows how to handle hots safely.

----------


## NCtrickFL

Me comparing insects to snakes is identical to people on here comparing snakes to dogs and cats.  You draw the line between where normal actions against animals meets animal cruelty.  Don't call me (o sorry my ideas) idiotic because you don't agree with them.  

The line is completely arbitrary.  Those people that love insects would call you an idiot for swatting a mosquito.  They draw the line differently.  Open up your eyes, your view is not everyone's view.

----------


## snakegrl

My thought is that if we are going to kill the snakes........Then people outta just put a bubble around themselves and then they won't have to worry about rabies, an airborne disease and you know what better stop driving your car and motorcycles cause they kill more people a year than snakes and oh; Then we have cigerettes and dip that cause cancer......so there you go? Are snakes really that dangerous??

----------


## flynn

> The line is completely arbitrary.  Those people that love insects would call you an idiot for swatting a mosquito.  They draw the line differently.  Open up your eyes, your view is not everyone's view.



I'm not going to voice my opinion on this matter as I tend to have a hard time taking any media source as a 'biblical truth' (oxymoron in itself) as to what happened and under what circumstances.

But the statement I quoted, I cant agree with this more  :Good Job: 


What means a lot to you means nothing to the next person, and vice versa.

----------


## snakegrl

Thats true they could have twisted his words.

----------


## BallsUnlimited

just bc u dont have experience with hots doesnt mean it needs to be killed. Its not that hard to trap a hot when done properly. remember people the snakes were here before us. Cut them some slack already. We took over there land and blame them for everything. Im not a fan of killing and reptile for any reason. There are ways around dealing with situations like what went on.

----------


## djansen

Alot of people are bit trying to kill snakes, jus sayin.  And would calling animal control be that big of a deal? its their job to find it.  Im not against killing it out of safety but there are other ways in this case.  he could have called animal control and went and alerted the neighbors and let them know animal control was on the way.

----------


## Raptor

> My thought is that if we are going to kill the snakes........Then people outta just put a bubble around themselves and then they won't have to worry about rabies, an airborne disease and you know what better stop driving your car and motorcycles cause they kill more people a year than snakes and oh; Then we have cigerettes and dip that cause cancer......so there you go? Are snakes really that dangerous??


..Rabies isn't airborne. It's transmitted via saliva (there needs to be an injury for the saliva to get into, however).




> Alot of people are bit trying to kill snakes, jus sayin. And would calling animal control be that big of a deal? its their job to find it. Im not against killing it out of safety but there are other ways in this case. he could have called animal control and went and alerted the neighbors and let them know animal control was on the way.


And if there's no animal control/local person to remove the snake?

----------


## gothkenny

> Comparing a insect to a snake is kinda childish. .


So is comparing a snake to a mammal. :Wag of the finger:

----------


## snakegrl

Oh, I know I am just saying unless you live in a protective bubble everything can harm you was my point  :Smile:

----------


## djansen

> And if there's no animal control/local person to remove the snake?


In Florida?  I would think you would be able to find someone, maybe the authourities.

----------


## BallsUnlimited

you know what mayb ill  kill the next stray dog bc it may have rabies and may be harmful to my family. Im sure that would go over well...snakes have the same rights that stray dog does. They dont need to be killed unless there is a reason. And not just a hot or large snake found near a house. I.E rabies or a sick snake or a snake that is suffering

----------


## flynn

> you know what mayb ill  kill the next stray dog bc it may have rabies and may be harmful to my family. Im sure that would go over well...snakes have the same rights that stray dog does. They dont need to be killed unless there is a reason. And not just a hot or large snake found near a house. I.E rabies or a sick snake or a snake that is suffering


Theres a difference between a wild snake and a stray dog.  Wild dog you say?  What do you think they do with wild dogs / animals that have rabies?  Cure them and send them back to the wild?  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## BallsUnlimited

> Theres a difference between a wild snake and a stray dog.  Wild dog you say?  What do you think they do with wild dogs / animals that have rabies?  Cure them and send them back to the wild?


no thats why if you read what i wrote you would see only the dogs\reptiles that are sick should be put down. Next time read before you comment. Just like they remove and re home dogs they should be doing the same for the snakes. A snake is an animal just like a dog is. And you wont change my mind on that.

----------


## PurplePython

lol....

How is comparing an insect to a snake just like comparing a snake to a dog?

Please explain that....

Most insects don't even live to be 2 months old....

Dogs live around 10-15 years and Snakes can live well above 30 years.

I would say chopping a snakes head off for no reason is a pretty serious thing.

----------


## flynn

> no thats why if you read what i wrote you would see only the dogs\reptiles that are sick should be put down. Next time read before you comment. Just like they remove and re home dogs they should be doing the same for the snakes. A snake is an animal just like a dog is. And you wont change my mind on that.


Wouldnt ever try to change anyones mind about anything, Im not a preacher here....

So a dog that 'has a stomach bug' instead of rabies should be put down?  A sick dog is not necessarily a threat.  An animal with rabies can be.  So can a hot herp.

If this guy had decapitated a corn snake or a milk snake or something, I can understand the problem here.  He found this animal to be a threat, so he did what he thought was right.  This kind of thing happens all the time, the fact that it was published as news is really what suprises me.


*Edit - just re read first post

I dont think the 'stalking' part happens all the time...that sounds kind of weird to me lollol.

----------


## Raptor

> In Florida?  I would think you would be able to find someone, maybe the authourities.


I was meaning in general.

----------


## djansen

> I was meaning in general.


so... the authourities anywhere else.

----------


## BallsUnlimited

> Wouldnt ever try to change anyones mind about anything, Im not a preacher here....
> 
> So a dog that 'has a stomach bug' instead of rabies should be put down?  A sick dog is not necessarily a threat.  An animal with rabies can be.  So can a hot herp.
> 
> If this guy had decapitated a corn snake or a milk snake or something, I can understand the problem here.  He found this animal to be a threat, so he did what he thought was right.  This kind of thing happens all the time, the fact that it was published as news is really what suprises me.
> 
> 
> *Edit - just re read first post
> 
> I dont think the 'stalking' part happens all the time...that sounds kind of weird to me lollol.


lol im not talking about sick as in fleas or a stomach bug or an r.i in a snake. im talking about rabbies and wounds that would make the animal suffer. Not to just a sick animal. I should have been more specific in what i meant sorry about that. I was trying to type fast my Chinese food had arrived hahah

----------


## flynn

> lol im not talking about sick as in fleas or a stomach bug or an r.i in a snake. im talking about rabbies and wounds that would make the animal suffer. Not to just a sick animal. I should have been more specific in what i meant sorry about that. I was trying to type fast my Chinese food had arrived hahah


 :Taz:  :Taz:  MINES ON THE WAY  :sploosh: 


/back to topic

----------


## dembonez

how jokes would it be if somehow the head that came off still got venom in him? xD

----------


## BallsUnlimited

> MINES ON THE WAY 
> 
> 
> /back to topic


haaha it was soo good... but back on topic i think every animal deserves a chance at life. we after all did come in a invade there space. we should at least respect them and not just kill them. I like animals more than i like people haha

----------


## flynn

> haaha it was soo good... but back on topic i think every animal deserves a chance at life. we after all did come in a invade there space. we should at least respect them and not just kill them. I like animals more than i like people haha



FORTY FIVE MINUTES and its still not here  :Taz: 

I dont disagree with you on that.  Whether this was a real threat or not I cant speculate.  Reading that he 'stalked' it makes me think it wasnt.  That just sounds kind of bizzare.

----------


## exiled reptile

> Snakes are in an area for 1 reason, there is a food source.  You want to naturally take care of that dangerous snake?  Release a non-dangerous snake that will EAT that snake ie a Kingsnake.


damn straight think about the big picture here people this guy just assumed that the rattler was going to cause some sort of trouble i guess he's a snake whispering genius not.sounds like some back woods red neck with an underdeveloped sense of manhood.  what's next your kid goes outside gets hit by a bus so you're going 2 go blow up buses and off bus drivers every time you see one. i hope not  always remember all life is important not just human life  . and yes i'm being judgmental and i don't care . 
 :Soapbox2:  :Long tongue:

----------


## Raptor

> so... the authourities anywhere else.


Lol. Around here the authorities would just tell us to kill it ourselves.

----------


## NCtrickFL

> lol....
> 
> How is comparing an insect to a snake just like comparing a snake to a dog?
> 
> Please explain that....
> 
> Most insects don't even live to be 2 months old....
> 
> Dogs live around 10-15 years and Snakes can live well above 30 years.
> ...


If you read the entirety of my post you will understand.  It's all about what you consider life.

O and I just remembered this, to the guy earlier who said insects don't benefit the environment...seriously? Or was that a joke?  I honestly don't know how to take that.

----------


## RichsBallPythons

> If you read the entirety of my post you will understand.  It's all about what you consider life.
> 
> O and I just remembered this, to the guy earlier who said insects don't benefit the environment...seriously? Or was that a joke?  I honestly don't know how to take that.


you must have a reading problem or something. I never generalized all insects not benefiting the environment, I singled out misquotes  :Confused2:

----------


## NCtrickFL

> Comparing a insect to a snake is kinda childish. Misquotes carry more diseases that a snake could ever dream of. Of course people will want them killed as they have no beneficiary factor to the wilderness cept transferring disease.


They have nearly the same beneficial presence in the environment as snakes.  Mosquitoes serve as food for a variety of species of bats, fish, amphibians, and birds.  They presence of the diseases is actually a check on the environment as a whole.  

Snakes serve to keep populations in check as well, but as predators.  

So though you might not think that is a "beneficiary factor to the wilderness" you are wrong.  The bottom of the food chain still represents a link in the chain

----------


## Jeremy78

A word of caution is warranted here. If you find a snake and you do not know whether or not it is venomous, the *safest thing to do is leave it alone.* Florida snakes are *not aggressive and, unless they are cornered, most will flee when humans approach.* Occasionally, you might encounter one that is reluctant to leave because it is basking in the sun to get warm. Among snakebite victims, an unacceptably high number are bitten on the hands and arms when they are handling the snake. Do not catch a snake and do not handle one unless you are sure it is not venomous. In addition, for a short time after a snake is killed, its reflexes may continue to work. Those reflexes typically cause the body to writhe slowly for awhile, but they can cause a convulsive contraction and a bite, so you should not handle a freshly killed venomous snake. Our Online Guide to the Fla. Snakes contains a Key to Identification which will identify any Florida snake you might find and tell you whether it is vemonous or harmless.

Source: :cens0r:http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/herpetology...e/venomsnk.htm

The Eastern Diamond-backed Rattlesnake is* extremely beneficial to man* because it preys on rats, mice, rabbits, and other warm blooded prey, many of which are considered pests. *Nevertheless, the general public in Florida feels so threatened by this and other snakes that many are killed without consideration.* *This indiscriminate killing, combined with the widespread loss of Rattlesnake habitat to agricultural development and urban sprawl and commercial hunting for Rattlesnake skins, has caused a severe decline in most Eastern Diamond-backed Rattlesnake populations.*

Source : :cens0r:http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/herpetology...adamanteus.htm

The chances of being bitten by a venomous snake in the United States are very low, and the* chance of death is virtually nonexistent,* particularly given the availability and quality of medical care in the U.S. Approximately one out of 37,500 people are bitten by venomous snakes in the U.S. each year (7-8,000 bites per year), and only* one out of 50 million people will die from snakebite (5-6 fatalities per year).* The graph below compares deaths from venomous snakebites to some leading causes of death, lightning strikes and other animal related deaths. *Did you know that you are nine times more likely to die from being struck by lightning than you are to die of venomous snakebite?*

Source : :cens0r:http://ufwildlife.ifas.ufl.edu/venom...ake_faqs.shtml

----------


## sg1trogdor

> I live out in the desert and we have a preserves on both sides of us...even though it is a community.  We see rattle snakes on a yearly basis.  Personally scares the bejezus out of me.  We do teach desert safety and we teach kids not to do certain things.  One being...if the ball goes under a bush....get a rake to get it....do NOT reach in and get it.  Be aware when you are out in the desert ..listen and look.  We also take precautions to make sure that our backyard is blocked off.  We net off the holes in the walls that allow water to flow out....make sure our gates are tight to the ground etc.  If and when I see rattle snakes...we have a number to call so they are relocated.  However lots of others kill them.  We also have many kingsnakes here...those are treated like little gods around here.  
> 
> To me if it can be relocated...then do it.  After all...we moved into their turf.


very good info most accidents can be avoided with a small amount of education.  On a side note I have noticed though at least from my personal experience the last say 6 or 7 rattlers that I have come across do not rattle.  I wish I could find the article but researchers were saying that rattlers are becoming less likely to rattle and give away their positions.  They are relying more on their camo for protection.

----------


## bsd13

I don't understand why this is even news. People kill rattlers all the time. Especially farmers to protect their livestock, kids and other animals. Really no different than killing something like a mountain lion that has decided to hang out in your backyard.

----------


## JEWSKIN

> I don't understand why this is even news. People kill rattlers all the time. Especially farmers to protect their livestock, kids and other animals. Really no different than killing something like a mountain lion that has decided to hang out in your backyard.




Had you just shot a mountain lion for merely hanging out in your backyard you'd get locked up jesus christ people think before you post

----------


## dembonez

> Had you just shot a mountain lion for merely hanging out in your backyard you'd get locked up jesus christ people think before you post


i agree

----------


## Raptor

> Had you just shot a mountain lion for merely hanging out in your backyard you'd get locked up jesus christ people think before you post


Depends on what the mountain lion was doing. If it attacked you/livestock, then yes, you could probably shoot it under the idea of it being a danger to humans/livestock. You'd have to call the game warden afterwards.

----------


## 771subliminal

> Depends on what the mountain lion was doing. If it attacked you/livestock, then yes, you could probably shoot it under the idea of it being a danger to humans/livestock. You'd have to call the game warden afterwards.


if it was attacking you you could kill it and it would be understandable, but if it was just cutting thru your yard minding its own business like the rattle was doing and you killed it youd be in some trouble

----------


## PurplePython

> Had you just shot a mountain lion for merely hanging out in your backyard you'd get locked up jesus christ people think before you post


LMFAO

niicccee

----------


## TheBallPython

This is all just utterly rediculous. WE have moved onto these animals land, and WE do not have the right to kill them because they come too close to our homes. We have to learn to live with them, not kill them because they can be dangerous. I personally do not value human life over animal life (we're ALL living things), so no, I don't think there was any reason for killing this snake. He was minding his own damn business. The guy just wanted to feel tough and be praised, and if he could PIN the snake, he could have dealt with this more humanely, but he chose not to.

----------


## bsd13

> Had you just shot a mountain lion for merely hanging out in your backyard you'd get locked up jesus christ people think before you post


No you wouldn't. Might get a cite for it, but you wouldn't get locked up. Regardless if you felt the mountain lion posed a danger you'd shoot it without caring about getting cited or locked up.

----------


## PurplePython

> No you wouldn't. Might get a cite for it, but you wouldn't get locked up. Regardless if you felt the mountain lion posed a danger you'd shoot it without caring about getting cited or locked up.


If you shot a mountain lion for "hanging out" in your backyard I am pretty sure your  :B0x0rz:  is going to jail. 

You cant just go around like a vigilante of the animal kingdon. Like a batman that hates animals or something. You can't just go around slaughtering living creatures for doing basically nothing.

----------

TheBallPython (04-20-2010)

----------


## bsd13

> If you shot a mountain lion for "hanging out" in your backyard I am pretty sure your  is going to jail. 
> 
> You cant just go around like a vigilante of the animal kingdon. Like a batman that hates animals or something. You can't just go around slaughtering living creatures for doing basically nothing.


No you won't. If a cougar is lounging around in you backyard you have every right to perceive it as a threat to your life and limb (as well as that of your animals and neighbors) and kill it. Farmers do it all the time with cougars, coyotes, wolves... hell they even do it with their neighbors dogs. In the big city maybe not but out in the country things like that happen every single day.

You don't have to like it, but it's a fact of life.

----------


## Raptor

> If you shot a mountain lion for "hanging out" in your backyard I am pretty sure your  is going to jail. 
> 
> You cant just go around like a vigilante of the animal kingdon. Like a batman that hates animals or something. You can't just go around slaughtering living creatures for doing basically nothing.


Considering they're not endangered, there's very little chance you'd get in trouble. It all depends on what state you're in, but for the most part, there's little issue. For example, here in Oklahoma, it's legal to shoot them if they're a nuisance. You're just required to haul them in to the wildlife department. Luckily, they're "rare" here. By rare, I mean that there hasn't been enough confirmed sightings..Even though plenty of people have seen them and a couple have been hit by vehicles.

----------

_bsd13_ (04-21-2010)

----------


## redpython

the replies in this thread define the real snake people over the people who just happen to keep snakes.

----------


## bsd13

> the replies in this thread define the real snake people over the people who just happen to keep snakes.


As well as those who are ignorant of the reality of the laws and how life works when it comes to animals in most places in the US.

----------


## Raptor

> the replies in this thread define the real snake people over the people who just happen to keep snakes.


You're protective of your snakes. Especially the ones that cost the most and you don't want them harmed in any way, correct? I have several head of livestock that's worth between $600 to $1,000. I have one that I'm currently test breeding for another ranch who due to his bloodlines, is easily worth $3,000.

Do you think I'm going to sit around with my thumb up my bum while any form of predator is stalking around? No. Does killing snakes make me any less of a snake person? No. I imagine you wouldn't go up to a cat or dog person who had shot a dog/cat for attacking their own animals and say that they were only a dog/cat keeper.

Your statement in its entirety is absurd.

----------

_bsd13_ (04-21-2010),NCtrickFL (04-21-2010),toreh (04-21-2010)

----------


## BiggBaddWolf

I would kill the damn thing too..so lock me up. I cant believe some people who put a friggin VENEMOUS snake ahead of human lives!!!!!!!!!!! :Rage:  :Rage:  :Rage:  :Rage:  :Rage:  :Rage:

----------


## djansen

> the replies in this thread define the real snake people over the people who just happen to keep snakes.


Not at all.  :Wag of the finger:

----------


## PurplePython

> I would kill the damn thing too..so lock me up. I cant believe some people who put a friggin VENEMOUS snake ahead of human lives!!!!!!!!!!!


no one is doing this....

if you would maybe read the story, the guy pinned the snake down and cut its head off. If he pinned it down he could have easily just removed it or something. He didnt have to kill it. 

No one is putting a snakes life ahead of a humans. 

christ

----------


## BiggBaddWolf

Ummmmmm I did read the story....And several are saying because he killed the snake he should be locked up, that is BULL!!!!!!!!!!! I would do the same thing were I in that position!!!!!!!

----------


## RichsBallPythons

> Ummmmmm I did read the story....And several are saying because he killed the snake he should be locked up, that is BULL!!!!!!!!!!! I would do the same thing were I in that position!!!!!!!


He wasnt in that situation, HE PUT HIMSELF IN IT. Snakes are not out to harm anyone but live their lives. He came upon it, took it upon himself and killed it with out moving it him self. To me thats uncalled for. In your eyes any venomous snake you see wild is a threat and must be destroyed. Get real dude.

Ive kept a cobra years ago, it struck at me which is dangerous situation, did i chop its head off, NO cause its doing what its programed to do protect its self.

With attitude like that no wonder your emotions are in the way of the real picture.

----------


## BiggBaddWolf

Ummmmm yeah ok.......sorry for speaking or typing my mind when I think locking someone up for killing a snake is a little harsh!!!!! But anyway!!!

----------


## RichsBallPythons

> Ummmmm yeah ok.......sorry for speaking or typing my mind when I think locking someone up for killing a snake is a little harsh!!!!! But anyway!!!


Its not harsh, read your state laws. Go kill a snake thats native to your state in front of a wildlife official and see where you end up.

Its illegal to kill native species with out special hunting permits

----------


## king216

> this sort of mentality (along with the irrational phobia of snakes by the majority of the population), is why we're seeing a decreased number of venomous snakes in the wild in the us. It saddens me that people think nothing of killing these beautiful animals when it requires less effort to call someone who could relocate them. If he's worried about it getting away before someone gets there, it's really not hard to put a bucket or something over the snake, then put a rock or something on top to make sure it stays put.


exactly! Just put a  bucket over it! This is just crazy, this story made me so mad

----------


## BiggBaddWolf

Here is what my state law says about venemous snakes: Taken from the Wildlife Code

Snakes in Missouri are protected by state law. The Wildlife Code of Missouri treats snakes, lizards and most turtles as nongame. This means there is no open season on these animals, and it is technically illegal to kill them. Of course, realistic exceptions exist, such as when a poisonous snake comes in close contact with humans, which could result in someone getting bitten.

========================================

----------


## RichsBallPythons

> Here is what my state law says about venemous snakes: Taken from the Wildlife Code
> 
> Snakes in Missouri are protected by state law. The Wildlife Code of Missouri treats snakes, lizards and most turtles as nongame. This means there is no open season on these animals, and it is technically illegal to kill them. Of course, realistic exceptions exist, such as when a poisonous snake comes in close contact with humans, which could result in someone getting bitten.
> 
> ========================================
> One comes near me or my family, or my neighbors as they have kids also, it is dead. If the snake has to go then it has to go, better than a person being bit!!!!


99.9999999999% of close encounters is OUR FAULT not thiers.

----------


## BiggBaddWolf

OK I guess you are right...humans are dumb and need to die a slow painful death due to a venemous snakebite!!!!!!!!

----------


## RichsBallPythons

> OK I guess you are right...humans are dumb and need to die a slow painful death due to a venemous snakebite!!!!!!!!


Seriously dude grow up. We are the invading species taking over land that dont belong to us. We are disgustingly over populating this earth it sickens me. Snakes were here before we ever were, where else do you want them to go when your house was their home first.

----------


## PurplePython

> OK I guess you are right...humans are dumb and need to die a slow painful death due to a venemous snakebite!!!!!!!!


some humans.. yep..

----------


## BiggBaddWolf

Well that is the way with everything...like wolves, buffalo, bear, I guess just about any wild animal...

----------


## PurplePython

> Well that is the way with everything...like wolves, buffalo, bear, I guess just about any wild animal...


shooting a wolf for going after your household pet dog or your cattle is one thing.

pinning a snake down and cutting its head off with a knife when hes not even anywhere close to biting someone is a completely different story.

----------


## BiggBaddWolf

Ohhhhhhhh yeah I forgot that snakes dont bite dogs, or cattle...How silly of me to let that slip my mind... :Rolleyes2:

----------


## Jeremy78

> Ohhhhhhhh yeah I forgot that snakes dont bite dogs, or cattle...How silly of me to let that slip my mind...


Lmao. Did You even read the whole thread? Your 7 times more Likely to be struck by lightning then killed by a snake. Why don't you worry about something real and leave wild animals alone. 
"hu yuck, dat dere snake near ma cattle. *spits* neva mind a experienced farmer like ma self. Ima just kill it"
you serious? You live on a >farm< and you would still kill these snakes?  

Maybe the answer is just training. Teach these people how to properly deal with venomous snakes. Like the one user said (sorry I forget who it was) they teach thre kids to get the ball with a broom and such.

This is ridiculous. How many times have you been charged by your bulls? You know the odds are more in your favour for being killed that way then by the snake you killed?

Oh wait, I'm sorry, you know the bulls dangerous and you stay away from it right?

----------


## BiggBaddWolf

I didnt bring up the BS about cattle, but yes come to think of it I do stay away from bulls!!!!!!

----------


## PurplePython

> I didnt bring up the BS about cattle, but yes come to think of it I do stay away from bulls!!!!!!


....a few posts up you mentioned wolves and stuff....

honestly how often do wolves or coyotes or mountain lions or any of that crap go out of its way to harm humans? wow am I missing something here? someone please tell me. Oh and bears! Cant forget bears! oh my! I remember the last time a bear charged me in my backyard.... oh wait..

----------


## BiggBaddWolf

Anyway this conversation has been fun to say the least!!! And in the end I do agree the guy SHOULD BE LOCKED UP...at the very least, but I am thinking more like executed in the electric chair, or maybe lethal injection!!!

----------


## Jeremy78

> Anyway this conversation has been fun to say the least!!! And in the end I do agree the guy SHOULD BE LOCKED UP...at the very least, but I am thinking more like executed in the electric chair, or maybe lethal injection!!!


Comon dude it's a valid debate. I don't agree he should be locked up but definately should be some type of punishment. A fine or something.
But seriously you don't agree that people who live on farms that are also home to venomous snakes should continue with there ignorance?
I think they should try there best to understand what to do with them. I guess you could call it karma though when your barn gets infested with rats and mice and you end up with urine all over your feed...?
Not looking to argue just looking to help. 

But please next time you find a snake in your field, avoid the bull, and call someone to come relocate it for you. Don't kill it...

----------


## Raptor

> This is ridiculous. How many times have you been charged by your bulls? You know the odds are more in your favour for being killed that way then by the snake you killed?
> 
> Oh wait, I'm sorry, you know the bulls dangerous and you stay away from it right?


I've never been charged by any of my animals. Males that show aggression towards me are either promptly sold or castrated. Sometimes both. I have no tolerance for my animals being aggressive. Perhaps this is why I can go out and handle my male animals during the peak of breeding season when they should be at their most aggressive.
----

Since several people had said that those who kill snakes should be put in jail/killed..Come get me. I'm sure a judge would find your reasons laughable.

----------


## PurplePython

> I've never been charged by any of my animals. Males that show aggression towards me are either promptly sold or castrated. Sometimes both. I have no tolerance for my animals being aggressive. Perhaps this is why I can go out and handle my male animals during the peak of breeding season when they should be at their most aggressive.
> ----
> 
> Since several people had said that those who kill snakes should be put in jail/killed..Come get me. I'm sure a judge would find your reasons laughable.


and im sure judges are complete animal experts too. yep none of them are ignorant rednecks  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Jeremy78

> I've never been charged by any of my animals. Males that show aggression towards me are either promptly sold or castrated. Sometimes both. I have no tolerance for my animals being aggressive. Perhaps this is why I can go out and handle my male animals during the peak of breeding season when they should be at their most aggressive.
> ----
> 
> Since several people had said that those who kill snakes should be put in jail/killed..Come get me. I'm sure a judge would find your reasons laughable.


Like I said before jail is a no for me. 
But do you condone the sensless killing of venoumous snakes? Or would you rather learn what to do about it?
And if you have had to sell or castrate your bulls then they were still agressive... Now just someone else has to deal with it.

----------


## Raptor

> Like I said before jail is a no for me. 
> But do you condone the sensless killing of venoumous snakes? Or would you rather learn what to do about it?


I have little problem with it. There's also little I can do about it. I live out of city jurisdiction so there's no calling animal control (can't even take animals to the city shelter for this reason). I have no experience dealing with hots, so I can't capture it. I also reside on 80 acres so I can't relocate it (provided I had the experience to deal with hots) without dumping it on someone else's property. That would essentially be dumping the problem on someone else..Plus no doubt cause a massive amount of stress on the animal.

Additionally, I don't deal with cattle. I deal with goats, usually the ones sold are yearlings and weigh in at around 60-80 pounds. Not as large or potentially dangerous as a bull, but they can still do damage with horns.

Castration removes testosterone which takes the aggression down a great bit. Selling them usually involves taking them to the sale barn. Often times, they're bought by a meat buyer.

----------


## blackcrystal22

It's one thing doing it out of the safety of your family and neighbors if you don't know how to do it safely in any other manner.

Making a public show out of it and calling the presses to come make a news story out of what a macho man you are.. is a completely different thing.

----------


## Jeremy78

> I have little problem with it. There's also little I can do about it. I live out of city jurisdiction so there's no calling animal control (can't even take animals to the city shelter for this reason). I have no experience dealing with hots, so I can't capture it. I also reside on 80 acres so I can't relocate it (provided I had the experience to deal with hots) without dumping it on someone else's property. That would essentially be dumping the problem on someone else..Plus no doubt cause a massive amount of stress on the animal.
> 
> Additionally, I don't deal with cattle. I deal with goats, usually the ones sold are yearlings and weigh in at around 60-80 pounds. Not as large or potentially dangerous as a bull, but they can still do damage with horns.
> 
> Castration removes testosterone which takes the aggression down a great bit. Selling them usually involves taking them to the sale barn. Often times, they're bought by a meat buyer.


Thank you. (drools mmmmmm goatttt). Sorry off topic...
But anyways. It's not that big of a problem for you. And I agree this guy shouldn't have waved it around like a hillbilly... And thanks for the information. I'm sure if there was a large problem with hots in your area though something could come of it. Maybe someone local who doesn't mind removing and moving it to crown land or something.

----------


## Raptor

> Thank you. (drools mmmmmm goatttt). Sorry off topic...
> But anyways. It's not that big of a problem for you. And I agree this guy shouldn't have waved it around like a hillbilly... And thanks for the information. I'm sure if there was a large problem with hots in your area though something could come of it. Maybe someone local who doesn't mind removing and moving it to crown land or something.


I haven't seen any hots up close for quite some time. It's mainly limited to cottonmouths and copperheads. Admittedly, I'm not a fan of killing snakes. I'm fairly familiar with the local species and I can tell which are venomous and which are not. I often go snake hunting when I'm hiking and I see a beauty. However, I've had a goat bit by a venomous snake before on the inner thigh. He ended up losing some function in his back end. He couldn't run properly: he couldn't coordinate his legs properly. He couldn't stand up on his hind legs: they'd buckle under him. I have no idea what kind of snake struck him. I just know that it effected him quite a bit and I have little desire for that to happen to any of my other goats. Luckily, he's the only one that's been bit, and I've probably had a total of almost 150 goats here, counting the ones that have been sold/died.

----------


## jtyson123

Killing the snake...eh I dont know. Cutting its head off and making a big story about it, STUPID. 

I have a sort of mixed opinion on this topic. I started catching wild snakes when I was 4. My parents knew nothing about snakes and killed every snake they saw, rattlers, bullsnakes, garters, etc. I ended up educating them. I myself have killed rattlers before when I was really young if I felt that they were a danger to my little sisters or my dogs. But I also started catching them when I was 8. Anyone who has half a brain could easily trap the snake and relocate it themselves or call someone who will. 

I mean seriously I know venomous snakes are scary because they are dangerous, but really all you have to fear is freaking out and not handling it correctly. I do suggest tongs if you have them, but even grabbing them with your hands isn't all that hard. 

Its weird to see posts on here by snake lovers who are scared of venomous snakes. I don't really understand it. How can you differentiate your opinion of the animals based solely on their methods of hunting and defense? Seems a bit ignorant to me I guess.

----------


## Raptor

> Its weird to see posts on here by snake lovers who are scared of venomous snakes. I don't really understand it. How can you differentiate your opinion of the animals based solely on their methods of hunting and defense? Seems a bit ignorant to me I guess.


Probably because a venomous snake can kill a human much more easily than a nonvenomous.

----------


## Jeremy78

> Probably because a venomous snake can kill a human much more easily than a nonvenomous.


Since you have 80 acres is there a safe haven on your property you could relocate them? I don't recommend using your hands but maybe a stick or or something?
After the goat was struck was the meat still edible or did you have to put it out of it's misery/ count your losses?

----------


## jtyson123

> Probably because a venomous snake can kill a human much more easily than a nonvenomous.


Its ignorant for people to use fear as their basis for judgement on any topic. 

As far as all pets go, should we kill pit bulls and rottweilers as they tend to be more aggressive (or so they are portrayed by television and movies), yet save everyones blue heelers because they are less likely to cause as much damage? 

If you understand something entirely and know how it works, you have no reason to be scared of it. You can learn to respect the danger of a venomous snake and do what you can to avoid them. After all technically WE are the invasive species. Not them.

I personally know a half dozen people who have been bitten by the rattlesnakes here in New Mexico, and NONE have died. All were forced to seek immediate medical attention, but none died. And all of them were bitten because they were either stupid and messing with the snake, or because they accidentally stepped on it. Not the snakes fault, just its problem. And it took care of its problem the only way it knew how and used what it is equipped with.

----------


## unspecified42

> Its ignorant for people to use fear as their basis for judgement on any topic. 
> 
> As far as all pets go, should we kill pit bulls and rottweilers as they tend to be more aggressive (or so they are portrayed by television and movies), yet save everyones blue heelers because they are less likely to cause as much damage? 
> 
> If you understand something entirely and know how it works, you have no reason to be scared of it. You can learn to respect the danger of a venomous snake and do what you can to avoid them. After all technically WE are the invasive species. Not them.
> 
> I personally know a half dozen people who have been bitten by the rattlesnakes here in New Mexico, and NONE have died. All were forced to seek immediate medical attention, but none died. And all of them were bitten because they were either stupid and messing with the snake, or because they accidentally stepped on it. Not the snakes fault, just its problem. And it took care of its problem the only way it knew how and used what it is equipped with.


What? 

It's perfectly reasonable for people to use fear of injury or death to judge something if it's a valid concern! I have far more fear of black widows of brown recluses than I do of wolf spiders, and I would kill either of the former if I found them in my house while I routinely ignore the latter that I find everywhere. I'm a lot more afraid of the flu than I am of a cold, and I'm a lot more afraid of MRSA and VRE than I am of less resistant organisms.

Large dogs are not more aggressive, but they DO have the capacity to cause more harm and therefore should be treated with more caution. I don't think it's unreasonable to euthanize a large breed, aggressive dog if it is posing a risk to humans, and I don't think it's unreasonable to kill a snake that is posing a similar threat. I don't think anyone is advocating proactive slaughter of venomous snakes that are not posing a threat like you are suggesting with this analogy, though. 

I'm surprised this was news, frankly. People around here routinely kill the hots in our area. It has never bothered me, really. Human life is more important to me than snake life. I would rather see a dead snake than an injured human. Bash if you want, but I figure the snake would be happier to see a dead human than injuring itself so I'm not sure why that's much different.

It's snake nature to protect itself. It's human nature to do the same.

----------


## h00blah

this should turn into a poll

right or wrong..

seeing how it is a snake forum, im sure it could prove interesting to see who thought this was right. or if not "right" then "justified" perhaps?

as for me, i think what he did was justified. nobody I know has ever been bitten bc im not friends with 4 year olds.

a venemous snake IS more dangerous than most mammals. it IS venemous... theres no "it COULD be venemous!", yes some mammals CAN carry diseases, but how many times have u HEARD or even SEEN on the news or the paper of someone getting killed bc of a squirrel attack... tbh, if it ever DID happen, it WOULD appear on the news... people kill rats bc they can carry diseases, but the reason is bc they can manage to get into ur house...

----------


## Raptor

> Since you have 80 acres is there a safe haven on your property you could relocate them? I don't recommend using your hands but maybe a stick or or something?
> After the goat was struck was the meat still edible or did you have to put it out of it's misery/ count your losses?


As said, I lack the knowledge to deal with hots. In addition, the cottonmouths are extremely aggressive. There isn't a safe spot on the property to relocate since pretty much all of it is fenced for the goats. There's one spot way back in the back, but it's basically on the other side of the property and required going through several pens and takes at least ten minutes to get there. We discovered the bite marks at the end of the day (goats leave at day break and go to pasture, then come back  about 30 minutes before dusk). Mom and I noted that he wasn't walking properly, so we checked his legs and there, we noted the bite marks. The injuries had scabbed over and besides the hind end issues, he wasn't ill. We ended up butchering him the next year and while eating some leg tissue, mom found what appeared to her as a snake fang. I never saw it so I don't know if it was actually a fang or if it was gristle.




> Its ignorant for people to use fear as their basis for judgement on any topic. 
> 
> As far as all pets go, should we kill pit bulls and rottweilers as they tend to be more aggressive (or so they are portrayed by television and movies), yet save everyones blue heelers because they are less likely to cause as much damage?


Any breed of dog that gets on the property is fair game to get shot. I have no bias.




> If you understand something entirely and know how it works, you have no reason to be scared of it. You can learn to respect the danger of a venomous snake and do what you can to avoid them. After all technically WE are the invasive species. Not them.


Sure, I might understand how a venomous snake works. Doesn't mean my animals will. I have animals that will run from something unknown, and others that will go investigate. Which will get bit? I can't teach them to avoid snakes. The only thing I can do is remove the venomous snakes when I find them. I have little desire to lose part of my investment. I'm not sure how much I have invested in the livestock at the moment. Purchasing alone it's well over $10,000. Include feed, wormer, vet visits, and medication? I  haven't a clue.

----------


## jtyson123

I totally understand protecting your investments, pets and family, but killing them is extreme. They are simple to catch and relocate. The snakes aren't doing anything wrong by being there. As I said WE are the invasive species and so is whatever we choose to bring along with us, be it livestock, pets, children, etc. Since we are at the top of the food chain obviously we won't be going anywhere but I think it is only fair for us to do everything in our power to relocate the animals rather than slaughtering them. 

Sure its no big deal for people to kill hots, it is common. So is crack cocaine and meth-amphetamine addictions nowadays. So just because something is common doesn't really make it okay.

----------


## JEWSKIN

> Depends on what the mountain lion was doing. If it attacked you/livestock, then yes, you could probably shoot it under the idea of it being a danger to humans/livestock. You'd have to call the game warden afterwards.


for any wildlife you are supposed to call fish and game or your local law enforcement and let them deal with it you are not allowed to take matters into your hands period unless it is directly attacking you or your family

----------


## DarkSean

Hmmm I think its fine. Aslong as it was a clean cut and the head came off I think its fine. I mean there is all this talk of big breeders culling their normals in reccessive breedings and we all support them directly or indirectly by buying the morphs.

----------


## Raptor

> for any wildlife you are supposed to call fish and game or your local law enforcement and let them deal with it you are not allowed to take matters into your hands period unless it is directly attacking you or your family


Maybe where you are. Oklahoma law says you're allowed to shoot them if they're a danger/pest.

----------


## BiggBaddWolf

> Hmmm I think its fine. Aslong as it was a clean cut and the head came off I think its fine. I mean there is all this talk of big breeders culling their normals in reccessive breedings and we all support them directly or indirectly by buying the morphs.


Very good point, and I KNOW there are breeders who do this!!!!!!!!!!!!

----------


## BiggBaddWolf

> for any wildlife you are supposed to call fish and game or your local law enforcement and let them deal with it you are not allowed to take matters into your hands period unless it is directly attacking you or your family


Bull Mullarkey...In my state you do not have to wait for DOC or law enforcement!!!!!

----------


## mrmertz

If he pinned it's head and then took the time to hack it off, wouldn't it have been just as easy to turn the snake in the other direction and let it go?

It would have done far more good over it's lifetime eating all the rodents we despise. Out here in southern Arizona we are _OVER-RUN_ with rats. They are everywhere and cause considerable damage - and yet people don't think twice about driving off to the shoulder to kill a snake. I'm dumbfounded - again.

----------


## 771subliminal

> only one that's been bit, and I've probably had a total of almost 150 goats here, counting the ones that have been sold/died.



150 goats and only one has been bit, and im willing to bet that you havnt gone around and killed off all the hots that are on or near your land?

you know animals are not as dumb as you may think they are, birds dont eat some butterflies cuz they know them to be poisonous and rattlesnakes dont have rattles because of humans its for all animals and it seems to have worked so far. nature works till we screw it up.

how man ranchers live in areas where there are venomous snakes and have thousands of livestock and lose few to none due to snake bites?

i know my uncle has ran several cattle farms for 40+ years and has never said anything about losing a animal to a snake bite and believe me when i say if it happened you would hear about it cuz he never stops talking about his cattle.

----------


## JEWSKIN

as far as people breeding snakes and culling them off well that's their choice and frankly I wouldn't do it but that's me......as far as calling fish and game or law enforcement yeah everywhere they are cracking down especially here too many endangered species due to macho people thinking omg it was a gonna eat me walking a hundred yards away in the opposite direction or omg that snake was in the dirt off the side of the road and there may have been some threat about it so I swerved to hit it.....Pretty soon people are going to realize the laws change with out them knowing it only in the last few years has operation game thief been in action now and well people are paying the price

----------


## Raptor

> 150 goats and only one has been bit, and im willing to bet that you havnt gone around and killed off all the hots that are on or near your land?
> 
> you know animals are not as dumb as you may think they are, birds dont eat some butterflies cuz they know them to be poisonous and rattlesnakes dont have rattles because of humans its for all animals and it seems to have worked so far. nature works till we screw it up.
> 
> how man ranchers live in areas where there are venomous snakes and have thousands of livestock and lose few to none due to snake bites?
> 
> i know my uncle has ran several cattle farms for 40+ years and has never said anything about losing a animal to a snake bite and believe me when i say if it happened you would hear about it cuz he never stops talking about his cattle.


As I mentioned, I'm on 80 acres and have only killed the hots up near the house. It'd be impossible to go and kill off all the hots. While animals might not be dumb, they are overly curious. I've had many animals get injured due to how curious they are. Additionally, cattle are much different than goats. Size, for one example.

The average weight of a cow is 1400. The average weight of a goat is say..120. The cow is about 12 times heavier than the goat, meaning the venom will be diluted. I once had a 1200 pound horse get bit by a snake. Other than localized swelling, she was fine. As I mentioned earlier in the  thread, I had a 60 pound goat get bit who ended up losing some muscle function after being bit.

I'd also hazard a guess that you're uncle doesn't have five ponds near/on his property and a large network of creeks like I do (I have three ponds on the property, two that are about 100 meters apart with a third that's about a quarter mile away. On either side of the property, you can hop a fence and find two more ponds. Crisscrossed over the east and south part of the property are numerous creeks..In short: prime cottonmouth territory).

----------


## Raptor

> As I mentioned, I'm on 80 acres and have only killed the hots up near the house. It'd be impossible to go and kill off all the hots. While animals might not be dumb, they are overly curious. I've had many animals get injured due to how curious they are. Additionally, cattle are much different than goats. Size, for one example.
> 
> The average weight of a cow is 1400. The average weight of a goat is say..120. The cow is about 12 times heavier than the goat, meaning the venom will be diluted. I once had a 1200 pound horse get bit by a snake. Other than localized swelling, she was fine. As I mentioned earlier in the  thread, I had a 60 pound goat get bit who ended up losing some muscle function after being bit.
> 
> I'd also hazard a guess that you're uncle doesn't have five ponds near/on his property and a large network of creeks like I do (I have three ponds on the property, two that are about 100 meters apart with a third that's about a quarter mile away. On either side of the property, you can hop a fence and find two more ponds. Crisscrossed over the east and south part of the property are numerous creeks..In short: prime cottonmouth territory).


Edit:



> as far as people breeding snakes and culling them off well that's their choice and frankly I wouldn't do it but that's me......as far as calling fish and game or law enforcement yeah everywhere they are cracking down especially here too many endangered species due to macho people thinking omg it was a gonna eat me walking a hundred yards away in the opposite direction or omg that snake was in the dirt off the side of the road and there may have been some threat about it so I swerved to hit it.....Pretty soon people are going to realize the laws change with out them knowing it only in the last few years has operation game thief been in action now and well people are paying the price


Culling is part of any breeding operation. You're going to get subpar animals and you're going to have to find a method of unloading them. I'm fairly certain you wouldn't keep and breed a snake with severe kinks. Also..fish and wildlife isn't going to care about killing cottonmouths and copperheads. They're not endangered in the least bit.

Edit: oh snap. Hit the quote button instead of edit >_<

----------


## 771subliminal

> I'd also hazard a guess that you're uncle doesn't have five ponds near/on his property and a large network of creeks like I do (I have three ponds on the property, two that are about 100 meters apart with a third that's about a quarter mile away. On either side of the property, you can hop a fence and find two more ponds. Crisscrossed over the east and south part of the property are numerous creeks..In short: prime cottonmouth territory).


you would be very wrong on that guess he also has several ponds and a couple creeks that go threw his property (well the one he lives at i havent been to all of the ones that he over sees) fished and swam in them all the time growing up and had quite a few run ins with hots as well.




> As I mentioned, I'm on 80 acres and have only killed the hots up near the house. It'd be impossible to go and kill off all the hots. While animals might not be dumb, they are overly curious. I've had many animals get injured due to how curious they are. Additionally, cattle are much different than goats. Size, for one example.
> 
> The average weight of a cow is 1400. The average weight of a goat is say..120. The cow is about 12 times heavier than the goat, meaning the venom will be diluted. I once had a 1200 pound horse get bit by a snake. Other than localized swelling, she was fine. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I had a 60 pound goat get bit who ended up losing some muscle function after being bit.


14lbs or 1400 if something gets tagged by a hot it would leave some sort of in most cases and still havent heard any of those. 

plus 1 bite out of 150 goats on 80 acres in prime cottonmouth country thats pretty low considering how dangerous they are that they have to be killed to protect your livestock. either you killed more than your saying or they are not as dangerous as we think.

and compareing killing a hot to killing a wolf, moutain lions etc is wrong. a moutain lion can be an actual threat to your livestock as they see it as a food and a snake only would bite them in order to protect themselves.

----------


## Raptor

> 14lbs or 1400 if something gets tagged by a hot it would leave some sort of in most cases and still havent heard any of those.


Not always. On the horse, the welling went down in a matter of days. If you're not going out and checking the animals daily, you're not going to find anything.




> plus 1 bite out of 150 goats on 80 acres in prime cottonmouth country thats pretty low considering how dangerous they are that they have to be killed to protect your livestock. either you killed more than your saying or they are not as dangerous as we think.


The goats aren't allowed on all 80 acres. They're allowed in different pastures for a certain amount of time. The pastures range from 5-20 acres. Since the herd doesn't always spread out, there's a lot lower chance of them running into multiple snakes. Plus with the livestock guard dogs running about..I'm sure the lot make a lot of noise/vibrations.




> and compareing killing a hot to killing a wolf, moutain lions etc is wrong. a moutain lion can be an actual threat to your livestock as they see it as a food and a snake only would bite them in order to protect themselves.


If it's an animal that can result in death or injury of my livestock, it's a threat.

----------


## Samuel

Here's the deal.  I live around rattlers, not many here specifically, but the area is known for some here and there.  Because of the rare sightings, if I found one in my yard .. in my neighborhood, I honestly would do one of two things right away.

1) Find a bucket and trap it .. see if I can move it safely.  If not, see if someone else can move is safely.

2) kill it

I would have zero issues killing a poisonous snake that was in my neighborhood.  none.  It's spring time, I see little kids rolling around on the grass, and running between houses and through lawns.  I know what I was like as a kid, and my gut instict is if this is found by a kid, there will be issues ..  I just don't even want to think about that chance happening.

Would I call the press?  no.  Do I understand what went through his mind?  yes.

----------

_bsd13_ (04-23-2010)

----------


## JEWSKIN

Venomous snakes will find a way to let you know they are there they'd rather not waste their venom on something they can't eat...not to mention it has been proven and documented that a venomous snake will let you pretty much step on it with out  striking so long as you don't reach for it.....as far as children go well they should be educated first and foremost about what is safe and what isn't or even to back away when they see a snake and get an adult there are much better ways to go about this than just killing on site

----------


## NCtrickFL

Ya Jewskin that's easy to say.  But we tell kids all the time not to run in the road, or play in that lake, or go inside the barn that's about to fall over.  They do it anyway. They're kids!! And if your childhood was anything like mine, you understand the danger, but...I don't know its just too easy to ignore the advice.  

Accidents happen and children die.  It is a horrible fact, but it happens.  No child on earth made it through childhood without an injury of some kind.

----------

