# Miscellaneous Herp Interests > Venomous Animals >  Western diamondback pics.

## Herpenthusiast3

I took 30 days leave from the navy in 2009 and spent 3 days camping out at lake Sonoma with some friends. We where packing up the morning of the last day and a western diamondback rattlesnake crossed the road into our camp site :/ anyone who has been to lake Sonoma knows that they kill a lot of the rattlers since the campsites are so close together and the park stays so busy.  I relocated this little guy in hopes that some campers or children wouldn't beat him with stones and rocks. :/ depressing it has to be that way. I have some photos of the snake and i thought you all might enjoy them.  :Smile: 







And mission success.  :Smile:

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## jason_ladouceur

It's awesome that you took the time to move that animal to hopefully protect it from being killed by campers. I would like to point out though that the snake in your hands is not crotalus atrox. It's crotalus viridis. I believe in fact it's crotalus viridis oreganus. Might not be a bad idea to at least know what species your dealing with if your going to put your hands on it.

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_Herpenthusiast3_ (03-09-2013),pookie! (03-09-2013)

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## RaskaNeil

Right snake or not good job moving him to somewhere he won't get his head bashed in! I have camped in a while but I still remember campers just freaking out over the smallest garter.

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_Herpenthusiast3_ (03-09-2013)

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## Herpenthusiast3

> It's awesome that you took the time to move that animal to hopefully protect it from being killed by campers. I would like to point out though that the snake in your hands is not crotalus atrox. It's crotalus viridis. I believe in fact it's crotalus viridis oreganus. Might not be a bad idea to at least know what species your dealing with if your going to put your hands on it.


I agree. Your absolutely right. My apologies for not doing more research before making the post. I've never been into venomous snakes so I'm not at all educated in the subject. I do however appreciate all reptiles and didn't want to see this guy/girl get hurt. Sorry for contributing to the misinformation out there. I was just excited to share some old pics that I just recently found. I will do some research and try and rename the post. If I can't do that I'll try to have it deleted. Thanks again.

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## Seanjackmc

> I agree. Your absolutely right. My apologies for not doing more research before making the post. I've never been into venomous snakes so I'm not at all educated in the subject. I do however appreciate all reptiles and didn't want to see this guy/girl get hurt. Sorry for contributing to the misinformation out there. I was just excited to share some old pics that I just recently found. I will do some research and try and rename the post. If I can't do that I'll try to have it deleted. Thanks again.


You did a great thing. Saving a animal from possible harm. You obviously knew the animal was venomous so who cares about the Latin name or if you didn't title your post correctly. Some people like to nit pick and try to show off their knowledge. If you said it was a garter snake, that's different, lol. Don't waste your time doing research because somebody pointed out you misidentified the species. You saved a reptile from a most likely death. I don't recommend ever handling venomous snakes but if you felt comfortable doing it more power to you.

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_adamsky27_ (03-09-2013),BrianB801 (03-13-2013),_Herpenthusiast3_ (03-09-2013)

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## jason_ladouceur

> I agree. Your absolutely right. My apologies for not doing more research before making the post. I've never been into venomous snakes so I'm not at all educated in the subject. I do however appreciate all reptiles and didn't want to see this guy/girl get hurt. Sorry for contributing to the misinformation out there. I was just excited to share some old pics that I just recently found. I will do some research and try and rename the post. If I can't do that I'll try to have it deleted. Thanks again.


There is no need to apologize. You did a great thing. I simply wanted to point out that the animal you were handling was not the animal you thought it was and provide you and any people reading this post acurate information. 



> You did a great thing. Saving a animal from possible harm. You obviously knew the animal was venomous so who cares about the Latin name or if you didn't title your post correctly. Some people like to nit pick and try to show off their knowledge. If you said it was a garter snake, that's different, lol. Don't waste your time doing research because somebody pointed out you misidentified the species. You saved a reptile from a most likely death. I don't recommend ever handling venomous snakes but if you felt comfortable doing it more power to you.


You think don't research and acquiring knowledge is a waste of time? Odd, what exactly about that do you find not worth time or effort? 
I'm sorry but pointing out a miss labeled animal,especially a venomous one is not nit picking IMO, it's simply sharing of information. And as far as I understand it is kind of the point of this forum board. And you asked who cares about the right Latin name for the animal in question, I do, most serious Herp enthusiasts do; researchers, scientist; oh and I'd bet the attending physician in the event of a bite would be very interested in knowing the correct name of the animal that caused the bite. Although the natural habitat's of atrox and viridis don't overlap, the antivenom used is the same, and the bite treatment protocol would be basically the same. It would probably be best if they didn't have to waste anytime trying to figure how you got bit by an animal that doesn't live anywhere close to where you were bit.

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_Annarose15_ (03-11-2013),pookie! (03-09-2013)

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## jason_ladouceur

Sorry for the double post.

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## pookie!

Thanks for saving the snake!! 

I am going to agree with Jason, it might not be of relevance to some people, but learning about what is in your area or the area you were at is pretty cool.. sure the guy knew it was venomous, most of us here knew that, but knowing the species could help if you were bit or maybe you just like learning about the types of rattlers or whatever.. dont knock someone for wanting to correct a mislabeled animal.. thats a good thing! You might think its showing off but its just pointing out an error so other folks dont make an error later on when trying to identify and animal or so they can learn about the said type they confused for something else.. 

Personally for me mislabeling animals or species, hell even breeds is a big deal, carries over into my dog life and believe it or not, mislabeling things can cause a lot of issues in ways you dont think about when you do it, not to bring up dogs but, look at the BSL "pit bull types" face, majority of that was causes by the wrong dogs being labeled something they werent by uneducated or misinformed people, when it was a different breed or mutt.. /tangent lol

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## Herpenthusiast3

I went to the main site to edit the post but I couldn't figure it out since I always use my tapatalk on my phone to surf the forum. You can Edit  topic titles can't you? If so can someone help me out.

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## Herpenthusiast3

"Like a good neighbor, the forum administrators there!" :/ it was worth a try. It's been more then Ten minutes so they aren't letting me edit it. It says a forum admin has to do it. Ugh :/

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pookie! (03-09-2013)

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## pookie!

Yea the Admins have to do it for you lol I am sure that jingle will bring them around soon!

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## Herpenthusiast3

> Yea the Admins have to do it for you lol I am sure that jingle will bring them around soon!


I am hopeful.  :Smile:  Ill get it sorted out. I'm sick right now though and feel like crap so I'm going to take a nap before I start on that headache of an endeavor. later all!  :Smile:

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pookie! (03-09-2013)

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## Seanjackmc

​don't lose sleep over it, really who cares. The corrections have been made. Anyone concerned with the actual Latin name of the species you saved now has that info.

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_Rob_ (03-10-2013)

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## Seanjackmc

> There is no need to apologize. You did a great thing. I simply wanted to point out that the animal you were handling was not the animal you thought it was and provide you and any people reading this post acurate information. 
> 
> You think don't research and acquiring knowledge is a waste of time? Odd, what exactly about that do you find not worth time or effort? 
> I'm sorry but pointing out a miss labeled animal,especially a venomous one is not nit picking IMO, it's simply sharing of information. And as far as I understand it is kind of the point of this forum board. And you asked who cares about the right Latin name for the animal in question, I do, most serious Herp enthusiasts do; researchers, scientist; oh and I'd bet the attending physician in the event of a bite would be very interested in knowing the correct name of the animal that caused the bite. Although the natural habitat's of atrox and viridis don't overlap, the antivenom used is the same, and the bite treatment protocol would be basically the same. It would probably be best if they didn't have to waste anytime trying to figure how you got bit by an animal that doesn't live anywhere close to where you were bit.


I don't understand your post. "You think don't research and acquiring knowledge is a waste of time?" What does that translate to? I really don't  understand how the care of bite from either species is "basically the same" yet they would waste time figuring out how you were bit by a snake misidentified? My only point is he saved an animal! Congrats to the op. he is not a scientist, or researcher just a reptile lover doing some good.

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## Crotalids

Good job.

But in future, don't bother pinning a venomous snakes for no reason. 

1. You aren't experienced in pinning venomous snakes, you are presenting yourself with an opportunity to get tagged. 

2. It's needless stress on the animal. Just get a stick, and move it. End of story. 




> It's awesome that you took the time to move that animal to hopefully protect it from being killed by campers. I would like to point out though that the snake in your hands is not crotalus atrox. It's crotalus viridis. I believe in fact it's crotalus viridis oreganus. Might not be a bad idea to at least know what species your dealing with if your going to put your hands on it.


That's not viridis Jason, that's Crotalus oreganus - Northern pacific rattlesnake.

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## Herpenthusiast3

I didn't pin a snake for no reason. I'm very aware that I put myself in danger but that's a decision I was willing to make to hopefully help the snake. I didn't ask for your permission. I posted these pics so you can appreciate the snake not so I can get advice on what i should or should not do pertaining to an already past incident.  Thanks for your concern. I wasn't asking how to handle a snake or even as to whether it is or was a good idea. Irrelevant due to the fact that my weekend hobbies don't include catching rattlesnakes. This was one isolated incident In which I felt I was doing a good thing. Moving the snake with a stick wouldn't have accomplished anything besides irritating him. If my goal hadn't been relocating the snake then i wouldn't have even gone near it. So thanks for dropping in to help identify the species but honestly your help probably should have just stopped there.   :Smile:

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_I-KandyReptiles_ (03-13-2013),pookie! (03-11-2013)

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## Crotalids

> I didn't pin a snake for no reason. I'm very aware that I put myself in danger but that's a decision I was willing to make to hopefully help the snake. I didn't ask for your permission. I posted these pics so you can appreciate the snake not so I can get advice on what i should or should not do pertaining to an already past incident.  Thanks for your concern. I wasn't asking how to handle a snake or even as to whether it is or was a good idea. Irrelevant due to the fact that my weekend hobbies don't include catching rattlesnakes. This was one isolated incident In which I felt I was doing a good thing. Moving the snake with a stick wouldn't have accomplished anything besides irritating him. If my goal hadn't been relocating the snake then i wouldn't have even gone near it. So thanks for dropping in to help identify the species but honestly your help probably should have just stopped there.


Moving it on a stick would have irritated it...? Far less than pinning, otherwise venomous keepers would pin our snakes every day. 

I'm just pointing out to you, that pinning a snake serves you no purpose. Unless you're trying to look macho.

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## jason_ladouceur

> I don't understand your post. "You think don't research and acquiring knowledge is a waste of time?" What does that translate to? I really don't  understand how the care of bite from either species is "basically the same" yet they would waste time figuring out how you were bit by a snake misidentified? My only point is he saved an animal! Congrats to the op. he is not a scientist, or researcher just a reptile lover doing some good.


My most humble of apologies for confusing you. It was a typo it should have read "you think that... ". 
By the time I noticed what it said it was to late to edit my post. But on the plus side you were right about something at least. Some people do love to nit pick. 



> Good job.
> 
> But in future, don't bother pinning a venomous snakes for no reason. 
> 
> 1. You aren't experienced in pinning venomous snakes, you are presenting yourself with an opportunity to get tagged. 
> 
> 2. It's needless stress on the animal. Just get a stick, and move it. End of story. 
> 
> 
> ...


You are correct. Old habits die hard I suppose. I completely forgot that they had been elevated from a sub species of viridis to there own species. And don't worry I don't think you were showing off with your knowledge at all.

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_Crotalids_ (03-11-2013)

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## Herpenthusiast3

I believe any educational informations  about the snake in question
Is of worth value. I still don't understand though how trying to balance to snake on a stick would have Put me in less danger. I had a fairly good distance to go before I could release the snake. So how would walking around with the snake on a stick be be safer if I have said distance to cover. I wasn't trying to be macho?! Lmao. I was trying to make sure I didn't get bit and at the time having positive control of the business end.  seemed like the best way to accomplish this. Once again, I'm not a professional hots keeper or even someone who will ever have an interest in keeping hots.  I just helped the snake as best I could. I haven't even seen these pics since 09 and I'm starting to realize that posting them was a bad idea on my part. I will be more careful not to share photos here that  are going to result In petty arguments,
Criticisms, and knowledge show boating. The only part about this post that I can sincerely apologize about is the title and misinformation within the listing of the snake as a western diamondback. The situation is over and done with and I won't hesitate to say that I would have done it the same way again.

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Annageckos (09-19-2013),Seanjackmc (03-11-2013)

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## Rob

I don't see how this turned into the big to do it did. Great we got the correct name of the snake out there. But get off the OP's back. The guy likes snakes so he picked it up and put it somewhere safe. Getting all butt hurt over stressing it out and what not is a little much. It's a wild snake, most of us here got into snakes by finding them out in the wild and catching them. He found it took a few cool pics of it and sent it on its way. Sounds alright to me. Everything doesn't need to turn into a gigantic debate.

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_771subliminal_ (03-13-2013),_Anatopism_ (03-11-2013),Annageckos (09-19-2013),_Herpenthusiast3_ (03-11-2013),Seanjackmc (03-11-2013)

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## Seanjackmc

Well put Rob! Don't hesitate to post pics OP! They were cool to look at and I still think you did a great thing. I hope that poor snake recovered from all the stress you caused. Just make sure next time you are going through old photos you have a classifications book next to you so this NEVER HAPPENS AGAIN! Lol!

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_Herpenthusiast3_ (03-11-2013),pookie! (03-11-2013),_Rob_ (03-11-2013)

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## Herpenthusiast3

> Well put Rob! Don't hesitate to post pics OP! They were cool to look at and I still think you did a great thing. I hope that poor snake recovered from all the stress you caused. Just make sure next time you are going through old photos you have a classifications book next to you so this NEVER HAPPENS AGAIN! Lol!


Agreed.  :Smile:

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## Crotalids

You all need to stop getting up tight.

I never had a go, I simply stated next time he comes across a rattler he shouldn't try to pin it. For HIS safety, a friend of mine got bitten while pinning an atrox for medication and he's been doing it for 7 years. But if you don't want to take that advice onboard, that's your prerogative.

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## Seanjackmc

> You all need to stop getting up tight.
> 
> I never had a go, I simply stated next time he comes across a rattler he shouldn't try to pin it. For HIS safety, a friend of mine got bitten while pinning an atrox for medication and he's been doing it for 7 years. But if you don't want to take that advice onboard, that's your prerogative.


Maybe you should give that advice to your friend! Hope he is ok. I have no idea what an atrox is either. Neither does Siri so it must not be a real species of anything. Is there a common name you can use for us slow folks.

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## STjepkes

Hey good lookin' out for our scaled friend there!

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## pookie!

> Maybe you should give that advice to your friend! Hope he is ok. I have no idea what an atrox is either. Neither does Siri so it must not be a real species of anything. Is there a common name you can use for us slow folks.


Crotalus atrox, next time try Google..

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## Skiploder

> You all need to stop getting up tight.
> 
> I never had a go, I simply stated next time he comes across a rattler he shouldn't try to pin it. For HIS safety, a friend of mine got bitten while pinning an atrox for medication and he's been doing it for 7 years. But if you don't want to take that advice onboard, that's your prerogative.


Your advice is solid - in this case there was no need to pin the snake.

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_Crotalids_ (03-13-2013)

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## Skiploder

> Maybe you should give that advice to your friend! Hope he is ok. I have no idea what an atrox is either. Neither does Siri so it must not be a real species of anything. Is there a common name you can use for us slow folks.


Yep, of Siri does not know what it is, it must not exist.

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pookie! (03-13-2013)

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## Crotalids

> Maybe you should give that advice to your friend! Hope he is ok. I have no idea what an atrox is either. Neither does Siri so it must not be a real species of anything. Is there a common name you can use for us slow folks.


Do you always act like a child? 

It happens even to the best, like George Van Horn: http://youtu.be/_Gmlc1-d3QQ 
Who may I add, has pinned 1000's of venomous snakes. 

I'm not giving the OP advice, for me to sound as if I'm knowledgeable. I'm giving him advice, so that next time he doesn't put himself in a dangerous situation, as he's already admitted he is not experienced with venomous snakes.

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## Seanjackmc

my response was meant to be light hearted, notice the Siri reference! It was in reply to don't be uptight! Sorry if you failed to catch the humor in it.

- - - Updated - - -




> Yep, of Siri does not know what it is, it must not exist.


Exactly!

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## Rob

> Yep, of Siri does not know what it is, it must not exist.


I get in a fight with her on a daily basis.

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## Skiploder

> Do you always act like a child? 
> 
> It happens even to the best, like George Van Horn: http://youtu.be/_Gmlc1-d3QQ 
> Who may I add, has pinned 1000's of venomous snakes. 
> 
> I'm not giving the OP advice, for me to sound as if I'm knowledgeable. I'm giving him advice, so that next time he doesn't put himself in a dangerous situation, as he's already admitted he is not experienced with venomous snakes.


Apparently giving advice isn't appreciated these days.  Looks like some people forgot to take their Pamprin this week.

Later today I will post a pic in which I am holding a boa constrictor with my pinky wedged in it's cloaca.  I will post it under a thread called "Boelen's python pics" and will get pissy when people inform me it's a  boa constrictor and that holding a snake with my finger jammed in it's orifice is not a good practice.

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_Annarose15_ (03-13-2013),_jason_ladouceur_ (03-13-2013),_Mephibosheth1_ (09-28-2013)

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## jason_ladouceur

> Maybe you should give that advice to your friend! Hope he is ok. I have no idea what an atrox is either. Neither does Siri so it must not be a real species of anything. Is there a common name you can use for us slow folks.


Slow, probably more accurately lazy or ignorant. As has already been stated google is your friend. Perhaps if you spend more than a year in this hobby and your interests grow to more than just what the next exciting ball python morph is you'll begin to understand that common names for different species are a lot less useful than you might think and can often lead to confusion. This thread is a prime example." Western rattle snake", am I talking about crotalus Oreganis, crotalus viridis, crotalus atrox? What if I was to say copper head? In North America most people would think of agkistrodon contortrix, but I could just as easily be talking about Austrelaps superbus. Same common name, VERY DIFFERENT SNAKE. 



> Your advice is solid - in this case there was no need to pin the snake.


Yep I'm going to have to agree with both skip and crotalus on this one. Pinning a venomous snake is the very last resort for handling hots. It puts the keeper at the most risk, and it's the reason that hot keepers have developed dozens of techniques to avoid doing it. It's good that the op didn't get hurt doing it, but I think it's important for people reading this thread especially those that don't work around hots regularly; understand that there is a bunch of safer ways to manipulate a venomous snake. If for no other reason than in the interest of keeping people safe in this exact type of situation.

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## Seanjackmc

> Slow, probably more accurately lazy or ignorant. As has already been stated google is your friend. Perhaps if you spend more than a year in this hobby and your interests grow to more than just what the next exciting ball python morph is you'll begin to understand that common names for different species are a lot less useful than you might think and can often lead to confusion. This thread is a prime example." Western rattle snake", am I talking about crotalus Oreganis, crotalus viridis, crotalus atrox? What if I was to say copper head? In North America most people would think of agkistrodon contortrix, but I could just as easily be talking about Austrelaps superbus. Same common name, VERY DIFFERENT SNAKE. 
> Lol! I love "google is your friend" I wish more people would say that! Great point on the western rattlesnake confusion. When I read the ops original post I pondered exactly the same thing you did for hours on hours. Not for a second did I think he was just trying to share a neat picture. 
> 
> Yep I'm going to have to agree with both skip and crotalus on this one. Pinning a venomous snake is the very last resort for handling hots. It puts the keeper at the most risk, and it's the reason that hot keepers have developed dozens of techniques to avoid doing it. It's good that the op didn't get hurt doing it, but I think it's important for people reading this thread especially those that don't work around hots regularly; understand that there is a bunch of safer ways to manipulate a venomous snake. If for no other reason than in the interest of keeping people safe in this exact type of situation.


As Crotalids pointed out already the op was trying to look "macho!" That's the only reason, you don't need to repeat this over and over. I've never handled hots, obviously you have a lot of experience with it. Maybe you can share your hot handling experience with the op instead of simply jumping on the anti pinning bandwagon which was never the intent of this thread in the first place.

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## Seanjackmc

> I get in a fight with her on a daily basis.


Siri and auto correct love to mess with me too!

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## babyknees

Awesome pictures!

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## jason_ladouceur

> As Crotalids pointed out already the op was trying to look "macho!" That's the only reason, you don't need to repeat this over and over. I've never handled hots, obviously you have a lot of experience with it. Maybe you can share your hot handling experience with the op instead of simply jumping on the anti pinning bandwagon which was never the intent of this thread in the first place.


I think that posts 16,19 and 24 clearly show what the response to offering unsolicited advice as to the proper way to do things would be. As far as band wagon jumping goes. This is not an opinion I just acquired today, and I would say 15 years of keeping hots and still haveing all 10 fingers is a testimate to doing things the safest way possible.

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_Crotalids_ (03-13-2013)

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## Skiploder

> I think that posts 16,19 and 24 clearly show what the response to offering unsolicited advice as to the proper way to do things would be. As far as band wagon jumping goes. This is not an opinion I just acquired today, and I would say 15 years of keeping hots and still haveing all 10 fingers is a testimate to doing things the safest way possible.


Let's clear this up:

This is not a bandwagon thing.

While handling a snake causes some stress in general, pinning is extremely stressful for the animal.  It is also potentially harmful to the snake and dangerous for the handler.

There is no need to pin a venomous snake in the field.  If you need to get a closer look or to gather data, then the best method is to use tubes to restrain them (and protect you).

Period.

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_Crotalids_ (03-13-2013),_jason_ladouceur_ (03-13-2013)

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## Seanjackmc

> I think that posts 16,19 and 24 clearly show what the response to offering unsolicited advice as to the proper way to do things would be. As far as band wagon jumping goes. This is not an opinion I just acquired today, and I would say 15 years of keeping hots and still haveing all 10 fingers is a testimate to doing things the safest way possible.


Do you not understand when a poster shares pictures of an event that happened a few years ago in which he has pinned a snake and a fellow forum member comes on here and says "the only reason to pin a snake is to look macho" where the abrasive feelings come from? That is a legitimate question I believe. The problem I see on many forums is people want to point out what they perceive as a wrong doing then add a little jab at the end. The macho comment was pointless and in no way could be deemed as helpful advice. Im all for advice on here, heck I've posted a bunch of questions and got great help in response. I just wish some people were more tactful in the way they present advice ie: no need add comments such as "trying to be macho" or "next time you handle a snake you might want to know the scientific name."
but that's me and I don't expect everyone to see it my way but I will point out when I think someone uses poor taste in a response.

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_Rob_ (03-13-2013)

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## Crotalids

> Do you not understand when a poster shares pictures of an event that happened a few years ago in which he has pinned a snake and a fellow forum member comes on here and says "the only reason to pin a snake is to look macho" where the abrasive feelings come from? That is a legitimate question I believe. The problem I see on many forums is people want to point out what they perceive as a wrong doing then add a little jab at the end. The macho comment was pointless and in no way could be deemed as helpful advice. Im all for advice on here, heck I've posted a bunch of questions and got great help in response. I just wish some people were more tactful in the way they present advice ie: no need add comments such as "trying to be macho" or "next time you handle a snake you might want to know the scientific name."
> but that's me and I don't expect everyone to see it my way but I will point out when I think someone uses poor taste in a response.



My first reply to this thread was just one of simple advice: 

"Good job.

But in future, don't bother pinning a venomous snakes for no reason. 

1. You aren't experienced in pinning venomous snakes, you are presenting yourself with an opportunity to get tagged. 

2. It's needless stress on the animal. Just get a stick, and move it. End of story. "

To which the OP replied in a defensive manner, saying he didn't ask for my advice etc. At the end of the day, i am the one with experience with venomous snakes, not him. For HIS safety i merely pointed out that he should not be pinning a venomous snake, if he does not have the necessary experience. Like Jason has previously stated, venomous keepers only pin their snakes as an absolute last resort. I don't understand why you think we are saying this to seem 'more knowledgeable', if the OP won't take heed of the advice, fine, but hopefully someone else reading this thread might do so in the future. 

If you think Jason's comment about knowing the species was off handed, it isn't. You obviously do not understand the implications of a venomous snake bite. Just because they use the same antivenom for rattlesnake bites, does NOT mean it's a good idea to know nothing about the species you are trying to relocate etc. It is very important, rattlesnakes venom is very different to one another (From mild local effects, to life threatening systemic symptoms), and can be very different even amongst the same species dependent on the locale. e.g Crotalus scutulatus (Mojave rattlesnake)

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_jason_ladouceur_ (03-13-2013)

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## jason_ladouceur

> There is no need to apologize. You did a great thing. I simply wanted to point out that the animal you were handling was not the animal you thought it was and provide you and any people reading this post acurate information. 
> 
> You think don't research and acquiring knowledge is a waste of time? Odd, what exactly about that do you find not worth time or effort? 
> I'm sorry but pointing out a miss labeled animal,especially a venomous one is not nit picking IMO, it's simply sharing of information. And as far as I understand it is kind of the point of this forum board. And you asked who cares about the right Latin name for the animal in question, I do, most serious Herp enthusiasts do; researchers, scientist; oh and I'd bet the attending physician in the event of a bite would be very interested in knowing the correct name of the animal that caused the bite. Although the natural habitat's of atrox and viridis don't overlap, the antivenom used is the same, and the bite treatment protocol would be basically the same. It would probably be best if they didn't have to waste anytime trying to figure how you got bit by an animal that doesn't live anywhere close to where you were bit.





> Good job.
> 
> But in future, don't bother pinning a venomous snakes for no reason. 
> 
> 1. You aren't experienced in pinning venomous snakes, you are presenting yourself with an opportunity to get tagged. 
> 
> 2. It's needless stress on the animal. Just get a stick, and move it. End of story. 
> 
> 
> ...





> Moving it on a stick would have irritated it...? Far less than pinning, otherwise venomous keepers would pin our snakes every day. 
> 
> I'm just pointing out to you, that pinning a snake serves you no purpose. Unless you're trying to look macho.





> Do you always act like a child? 
> 
> It happens even to the best, like George Van Horn: http://youtu.be/_Gmlc1-d3QQ 
> Who may I add, has pinned 1000's of venomous snakes. 
> 
> I'm not giving the OP advice, for me to sound as if I'm knowledgeable. I'm giving him advice, so that next time he doesn't put himself in a dangerous situation, as he's already admitted he is not experienced with venomous snakes.





> My first reply to this thread was just one of simple advice: 
> 
> "Good job.
> 
> But in future, don't bother pinning a venomous snakes for no reason. 
> 
> 1. You aren't experienced in pinning venomous snakes, you are presenting yourself with an opportunity to get tagged. 
> 
> 2. It's needless stress on the animal. Just get a stick, and move it. End of story. "
> ...


Lol kinda beat me to the punch on that one. So I'm just gonna say x2 what he said. Really the only one that has been stirring the pot and making jabs here is a member who has added next to nothing to the conversation except some bla bla bla about a useless iPhone app.

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Seanjackmc (03-13-2013)

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## Seanjackmc

Woah hold up. Siri is not some useless app! She knows if its raining outside before I even get of bed in the morning!
nice work on the quoting yourself though lmao!
I promise ill leave this alone now, thanks for the chuckle as I scrolled down you post not reading any of it. 
Im gonna go pin my ball python so my wife thinks I'm a macho macho man?
Enjoy the rest of Tuesday!

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## jason_ladouceur

> Woah hold up. Siri is not some useless app! She knows if its raining outside before I even get of bed in the morning!
> nice work on the quoting yourself though lmao!
> I promise ill leave this alone now, thanks for the chuckle as I scrolled down you post not reading any of it. 
> Im gonna go pin my ball python so my wife thinks I'm a macho macho man?
> Enjoy the rest of Tuesday!


Sounds about right, on all counts. And your welcome. At least you managed to get something out of this thread. To bad it wasn't knowledge.  :Sad:

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## pookie!

[img]http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/3a6/a26/e2b/resized/og-meme-generator-shake-your-****s-this-pissing-contest-is-over-e62bcd.jpg?1319601457.jpg[/img]

Ill just leave that right there... *walks away quietly*

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_jason_ladouceur_ (03-13-2013)

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## Herpenthusiast3

> My first reply to this thread was just one of simple advice: 
> 
> "Good job.
> 
> But in future, don't bother pinning a venomous snakes for no reason. 
> 
> 1. You aren't experienced in pinning venomous snakes, you are presenting yourself with an opportunity to get tagged. 
> 
> 2. It's needless stress on the animal. Just get a stick, and move it. End of story. "
> ...


Ughhhh. So I will reiterate. I AM NOT A "HOTS" KEEPER!!!! It's in caps so please read it through and try to commit this tid bit if information to memory because it is the foundation for the rest of the things that I am going to have to restate here. I do not handle venomous snakes for sh$&s and giggles or even to gather data. "This was a single isolated incident in which I had to move the snake a considerable distance. Not 50 feet but more like a quarter mile or so. <---Okay now I want to point out that I have already stated this. I want to congratulate you on handling hots. I want to make sure that you understand that everyone here has seen and read when you obnoxiously qualified yourself by stating your ability and current success rate<--- (which I'm sure will hold up with that attitude.)  All those points are void. Pinning a snake is a baaaaaaad idea. NOTED  :Smile:  (a million times noted). You may be a competent hots keeper but you are fumbling through this thread missing the single point that would end this convo like you have some kind of learning disability.  If you are going to post on this thread please read it all the way through so as not to cause any more unnecessary misunderstanding.  I said all information is welcome including the information on how to properly handle the snake. Seeing as how I was camping and did not know that I could walk a rattler a quarter mile balanced on a stick I did it by pinning his head. I understand that it stresses the animal out but since I do not keep hots this is the way I felt most comfortable transporting him. If you want to leave me your number I can give you a call next time I run In to this sort of situation. Just in case I don't get reception though can you just post a detailed message on the proper handling of this particular species? Just on the off chance that I some how come across one again in the same situation. In fact can you just drop some knowledge man!!! Let us all know the proper handling of all the venomous species in my region. The point I'm getting at is you chastised me for the way I relocated the snake all the while trying to create rapport by tossing around bits of knowledge that would be received well if you weren't trying to use it to fuel a roundabout argument that's pointless based on the fact that I did not intend to run into this situation and I had no resources or references on hand to help me adequately handle the snake. I did the best I could. Like I said leave your number for the rest of us. That way we can just give you a ring and you can walk us through how the self proclaimed  yoda of hots handling does it.

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Seanjackmc (03-13-2013),Willie76 (03-14-2013)

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## Seanjackmc

Lol! Best post ever!

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_Herpenthusiast3_ (03-13-2013)

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## Crotalids

> Ughhhh. So I will reiterate. I AM NOT A "HOTS" KEEPER!!!! It's in caps so please read it through and try to commit this tid bit if information to memory because it is the foundation for the rest of the things that I am going to have to restate here. I do not handle venomous snakes for sh$&s and giggles or even to gather data. "This was a single isolated incident in which I had to move the snake a considerable distance. Not 50 feet but more like a quarter mile or so. <---Okay now I want to point out that I have already stated this. I want to congratulate you on handling hots. I want to make sure that you understand that everyone here has seen and read when you obnoxiously qualified yourself by stating your ability and current success rate<--- (which I'm sure will hold up with that attitude.)  All those points are void. Pinning a snake is a baaaaaaad idea. NOTED  (a million times noted). You may be a competent hots keeper but you are fumbling through this thread missing the single point that would end this convo like you have some kind of learning disability.  If you are going to post on this thread please read it all the way through so as not to cause any more unnecessary misunderstanding.  I said all information is welcome including the information on how to properly handle the snake. Seeing as how I was camping and did not know that I could walk a rattler a quarter mile balanced on a stick I did it by pinning his head. I understand that it stresses the animal out but since I do not keep hots this is the way I felt most comfortable transporting him. If you want to leave me your number I can give you a call next time I run In to this sort of situation. Just in case I don't get reception though can you just post a detailed message on the proper handling of this particular species? Just on the off chance that I some how come across one again in the same situation. In fact can you just drop some knowledge man!!! Let us all know the proper handling of all the venomous species in my region. The point I'm getting at is you chastised me for the way I relocated the snake all the while trying to create rapport by tossing around bits of knowledge that would be received well if you weren't trying to use it to fuel a roundabout argument that's pointless based on the fact that I did not intend to run into this situation and I had no resources or references on hand to help me adequately handle the snake. I did the best I could. Like I said leave your number for the rest of us. That way we can just give you a ring and you can walk us through how the self proclaimed  yoda of hots handling does it.


Once again you are unable to grasp what I what trying to get across.

I never tried to chastise you for pinning the snake on that occasion. If you bothered to read what I said initially, you'll see that I said good job, but NEXT time x, y and z. What's done is done, all anyone has advised is that next time you do things differently. 

I know you aren't a venomous keeper, which is exactly why I am telling you not to pin a snake you are not experienced with! From the picture it looks as if you have your thumb under the chin of the snake, which is an incredibly bad idea. I've had snakes put their fangs through their lower jaw whilst pinned. 

You can call me if you like, but you'll have a hefty phone bill as I don't live in the States!

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## ballpythonboy

that does not look like any westie that ive ever seen. the head is so beautiful though

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_Herpenthusiast3_ (09-26-2013)

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## Borgy76

Cool photos.  The internet pissing contest was somewhat humorous as well.

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_Herpenthusiast3_ (09-26-2013)

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## Herpenthusiast3

> Cool photos.  The internet pissing contest was somewhat humorous as well.


Thanks Borgy. Yeah, I had to throw those pants out. Soaked through to the shoe!  :Smile:  I didn't think I would be visiting this thread again, but hello.  :Smile: 




> that does not look like any westie that ive ever seen. the head is so beautiful though


Thanks BPboy. I wish I had a better camera at the time because the cyber shot that I had did not do it justice. I can't truly vouch for it being a western so my topic title was definitely presumptuous and a tad bit hasty.  I live in the Northern California area and I'm under the impression it's either a western (crotalus atrox) or a pacific (crotalus oreganus). I'm not an expert so you definitely may be correct if you are versed in rattlers.  :Smile:

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