# Ball Pythons > BP Breeding >  Desert Lesser x Desert Spider female

## Robyn@SYR

Caught these two locked up today, Desert Lesser with an 1850 gram Desert Spider female. Camera phone pic, but oh well : )

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_angllady2_ (05-10-2011),_Anna.Sitarski_ (06-30-2011),_CoolioTiffany_ (07-01-2011),_Crazy4Herps_ (05-11-2011),_Exotic Ectotherms_ (06-06-2011),_Jason Bowden_ (06-30-2011),_lance_ (05-14-2011),_mainbutter_ (08-10-2011),mako (07-01-2011),mangopixie (08-20-2011),_merdcme_ (06-06-2011),_purplemuffin_ (08-20-2011),snakesRkewl (07-19-2011),VicShell (05-10-2011)

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## Failshed

hopefully get some supers!

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## DemmBalls

WOW!!!  Good luck!

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## dr del

Cool,  :Dancin' Banana: 

Really looking forward to see the results of that.  :Good Job: 


dr del

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## Kymberli

Oh my god, they are just incredible. Deserts and desert combos are hands down my favorite morphs. I'm excited to see what these two produce.

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## Evenstar

> Oh my god, they are just incredible. Deserts and desert combos are hands down my favorite morphs. I'm excited to see what these two produce.


I'll second that!!!   :Dancin' Banana:

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## Quiet Tempest

Those two are hot!   :Cool:

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## Action Reptiles

Those are both smoking ...Very interested in the results of that pairing.. :Good Job:

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## mainbutter

Congrats!  I'm pulling for you guys to hit a super this year.

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## snakesRkewl

Congrats, love those desert combos!

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## Subdriven

This breading will pput so many questions to rest!!!   I am so pulling for you on this one!

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## VicShell

Can't wait to get just a desert let alone a combo beautiful animals  congrats hope you get a great clutch

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## TheSnakeEye

Deserts have supers?

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## Failshed

> Deserts have supers?



Not yet. But I think that is part of the point of this pairing.

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## KingPythons

I didn't know desserts were co dom. I just know a dessert lesserbee is great but didn't think a lesser and spider would make a super.

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## Crazy4Herps

Amazing!! Deserts are the best!

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## Drewp

I don't think there has been a whole lot of desert x desert breeding done to find out if there is a super

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## KingPythons

> I don't think there has been a whole lot of desert x desert breeding done to find out if there is a super


I believe there has been. Just no one wants to share to let you down...

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## Failshed

> I didn't know desserts were co dom. I just know a dessert lesserbee is great but didn't think a lesser and spider would make a super.


A little confused by this. A Spider to Lesser would not make a super. The dessert to dessert is what I was getting at. Although they have yet to be produced or have been produced and no one wants to share  :Very Happy: .




> I believe there has been. Just no one wants to share to let you down...


Meaning?

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## aaronsmo13

Wow.... This makes me want to get a desert again...  :Smile:  

Keep us posted! Good luck!

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## Simple Man

Amazing! Thanks for sharing.

Regards,

B

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_KingPythons_ (05-12-2011)

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## KingPythons

The Desert is a relatively new morph of Ball Python that presently has two lines. Both Stan Chiras and Peter Kahl have proven them and are presently working with them. This is the history of them as told to me by Stan.

Around 2001 Stan Chiras purchased his original Desert male as a 350 gram import. At the time of purchase it was assumed to be a Desert Ghost. When it got up to size to breed it was bred to a Normal Female and the offspring were expected to be Normal looking Het Desert Ghost. Much to his surprise two of the babies looked just like the Father. Around this same time Peter Kahl imported a like animal that he also thought was a Desert Ghost. His Desert did the same thing as Stan’s. Stan and Peter compared their animals and determined that they were the same thing. Instead of being a Simple Recessive trait it appears to be Co-Dom. That should be proven sometime soon, as both Stan and Peter will be breeding Desert-to-Desert trying to produce a Super. Hopefully it will not be a White Snake. LOL

I was able to see this incredible new morph at the 2007 Daytona show. Both Peter and Stan had them available and both of them had a few crosses (I will show some pictures of the crosses a little further down the page), with them. Stan had a slightly better selection of then so I ended up purchasing one from him. She was the very nicest Female he had. Here are some pictures I took of her the first day she arrived.

..... So since 2001-2007 your telling me no one made a female Dessert to do a Dessert x Dessert breeding ???

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## Drewp

I've heard that female deserts usually don't get much bigger than 1000-1200 grams and then they stop eating and being difficult... in NERDs recent "what not to breed together" video, they say that they haven't tried desert x desert... but also that they don't want to even try it... based I think on past breeding fails (namely the ones that they discuss in the video) and the fact that nobody has come out and said that they've done it yet.

So essentially, what you're saying...




> ..... So since 2001-2007 your telling me no one made a female Dessert to do a Dessert x Dessert breeding 
> ???


Good luck with this project, it would be awesome to see the results.

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## PghBall

Nice!!  Can't wait to see the results!

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## Failshed

> ..... So since 2001-2007 your telling me no one made a female Dessert to do a Dessert x Dessert breeding ???


I am in complete agreement with you on this point, but I think the pictures are trying to dispell one of the rumors of the females not achieving breeding size. 

I am hoping to see some viable eggs and some awesome looking babies out of this pairing.

So now we wait.

Robyn, was she paired with anything else? :Confused:

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## Monster Dodge

A Desert Female cannot produce a clutch :Confused:  :Confused:  Why are they so expensive then? I cant believe thats true... Robyn you work at Pro Exotics yes? You guys have never had a female desert produce a clutch of healthy eggs.... ever?

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## Failshed

> A Desert Female cannot produce a clutch Why are they so expensive then? I cant believe thats true... Robyn you work at Pro Exotics yes? You guys have never had a female desert produce a clutch of healthy eggs.... ever?


Not proven or dis-proven yet. No one REALLY knows yet, but I for one am hoping that this pairing shows us some answers.

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## Failshed

Any news on this pairing?

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## Subdriven

Update?? Please.

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## Xan Powers

update please.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk. Xan Powers!

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## cdavidson9

Any Ovy taken place yet?? We are waiting impatiently. LOL

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## lance

so whats going on with this breeding?

Lance

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## The Hedgehog

Subscribed!

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## Failshed

Is there any news on this pairing??? :Confused:

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## mdfreak2

still waiting cant wait any longer

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## snakesRkewl

> still waiting cant wait any longer


lol  :Razz:

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_mdfreak2_ (07-19-2011)

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## Robyn@SYR

I emailed Chad to ask for a specific update, as he is the one that works with the breeders hands on each day. We have four Desert or Desert combo females that are 2000+ grams and in the follicular window for breeding. 

Chad- "I checked them today. Moving along with follicle growth. All four have bred and copped with desert combo males. Nothing is going to happen real soon but I very happy with where they are."

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ace_singapore (08-10-2011),dr del (07-19-2011),_mainbutter_ (08-09-2011),_mdfreak2_ (07-19-2011),_snakemansnakes_ (07-20-2011)

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## ace_singapore

So its like saying that desert and desert combo females are....infertile?  :Confused:  :Confused:

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## Kymberli

I hate the wait. 
And I'm not even the one breeding this season.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## fredanthony

Gotta love deserts. Beautiful animals Robyn. Now if I could only get my female up to size  :Smile:

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## reptile_republic

I just watch a video on world of ballpython regarding lethal combo? one of it was desert gene breed to desert gene. is it true? sir, post some picture of the clutch. thanks...

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## Robyn@SYR

There is a Desert female clutch from another breeder due to hatch this week, and Desert females have laid good clutches before, so I would not call it a lethal combo. 

I think it is important to wait until females are 2000 grams before breeding.

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## LotsaBalls

> There is a Desert female clutch from another breeder due to hatch this week, and Desert females have laid good clutches before, so I would not call it a lethal combo. 
> 
> I think it is important to wait until females are 2000 grams before breeding.


Any update?  :Smile:

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## Thesnakepitt

> There is a Desert female clutch from another breeder due to hatch this week, and Desert females have laid good clutches before, so I would not call it a lethal combo. 
> 
> I think it is important to wait until females are 2000 grams before breeding.


I thought that clutch was 60 days LAST week ?  Is this the desert x desert posted on KS ?

Good luck with your desert pairings.

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## seang89

So whats going on with these? Very interested in the verdict here.

Desert rumors are confirmed or what?

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## fredanthony

Great pic Robyn, can't wait to see if she takes and what comes out  :Smile:  dumb question but what is that substrate? Fine Aspen chips?

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## llovelace

Sani-chips

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## fredanthony

Any word on this? Did she take? Thanks Robyn.

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## Robyn@SYR

Our females are still copping. We have removed all supplemental heat in their cages, going after a new theory. Follicles have grown a bit, and cops are still occuring, but the normal rate of breeding progression is not there, which I would think has to do with lack of heat. 

But the Desert females that have been bred in the past had no supplemental heat, so we are rolling with that approach. Hopefully slow and steady will get us to where we want to be. It is just extra slow. 

As for the Desert clutch posted on KS, it is past hatch date, but I haven't seen a peep from that breeder again since the day he posted the clutch.

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ace_singapore (08-28-2011)

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## ace_singapore

Thanks for e update, hope it works out for ya!  :Good Job:

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## fredanthony

Robyn,

As usual thanks the response. With all this talk going on everyone is anxious to see what the outcome here is. I wish you guys luck and I really want it to work out for you. I have a female as well and to be honest I can't wait to get her to size. I have to say I think deserts are just beautiful animals, maybe it's just my thing  :Smile:  please keep us posted. Its also great that you guys have been keeping the communication open, keeping us in the loop. Heres fingers crossed for you guys!

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## Robyn@SYR

Word came today of a new Desert female clutch in a Euro collection. We have sent quite a few PE Deserts that way in the last couple of years. Hoping to hear more details and see some pics soon!

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## Big Gunns

> Our females are still copping. We have removed all supplemental heat in their cages, going after a new theory. Follicles have grown a bit, and cops are still occuring, but the normal rate of breeding progression is not there, which I would think has to do with lack of heat. 
> 
> But the Desert females that have been bred in the past had no supplemental heat, so we are rolling with that approach. Hopefully slow and steady will get us to where we want to be. It is just extra slow. 
> 
> As for the Desert clutch posted on KS, it is past hatch date, but I haven't seen a peep from that breeder again since the day he posted the clutch.


Everything is great with desert females. You see no difference in them. They grow and breed just fine....YET....you are *"going after a new theory"*when it comes to breeding them. Doesn't that seem just a leeeetle strange to anyone else? :Confused:  :Confused:  The only way BG is gonna change up the way he breeds his snakes is if all he and everyone else has had is FAILURE when it comes to the "conventional" way. Just a thought. 

Don't be scared people. Ask the hard questions that need to be asked. 




> Word came today of a new Desert female clutch in a Euro collection. We have sent quite a few PE Deserts that way in the last couple of years. Hoping to hear more details and see some pics soon!


Can't wait to hear about this clutch. BG will add it to his report. :Good Job:

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## fredanthony

From what I've read some have posted egg bound females "due to heat" and the female's size. There is at least one report of a female passing away due to this and the fact that is was reportedly 1200-1400 grams, small, but in most respects breed-able. Now if he says he hasn't tried breeding, I'll have to take him at his word on this, why wouldn't he do the smart thing and heed others warning? 

Robyn, Chad and Stan didn't create the desert ball python they were found in the wild, they simply are breeders that imported them and found them to be an interesting morph. Robyn, nor Pro exotics are responsible for any issues these females may have. I think it's smart of him to weight till the females are of appropriate size, 1800+ to be safe, and use any methods to increase the chances of her producing successfully.

That being said, yes, if they (PE) know factually that there is an issue (sterility, reproductive issues) with this morph then that should be disclosed to those of us sounding 4k+ on a snake which we believe to be an "investment" in producing more deserts and desert combos. I have no evidence to date that this is the case. He (Robyn) has cleared stated what he "knows" or "thinks". Of course being one of the top producers of deserts his reputation, and maybe even livelihood, could be at stake. Why not do what you can to insure propagation of the morph?

Robyn, I say go for it. Try what you must, want, think, etc. There are many of us anxiously waiting on an outcome. 1,2 even 10 failures (expression of thought here, I have not personally heard of a given number of reports) does not constitute a failure in my mind. I've seen females never produce for a breeder only to do so for another on the first go. Good luck with your breeding plans. If you fail let us know, if you succeed let us know. 

Please note, this response is not a denotation of agreeance with anyone. If BG has something to show I'm open to see it, as I'm sure are others. If Robyn has something to share we are equally open. Thanks!

Fred.

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## fredanthony

*wait not weight, *spending not sounding, sorry a few typos there.. iPhone..

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## Focal X

Any updates?  This should be due soon, right?

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## Stewart_Reptiles

> Any updates?  This should be due soon, right?


Since you do not seem to be aware Pro Exotic have lost their entire BP collection to a fire.

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_Shadera_ (05-23-2012)

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## trivtrivsocal

"The Pro Exotics facility suffered utter devastation on Monday morning, September 26th, 2011. Robyn@PE got a call from the alarm company at 5:45 a.m. that smoke was pouring out of the building. He arrived at the facility at 6:10 a.m. to find the smoke increasing and fire crews on the scene."

Wiped out there collection. No updates because all have perished in the collection! Tragic

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## hypersomniacjoo

i am still bummed to hear that the desert combo in this thread didn't make it  :Sad:

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## 1nstinct

P.s. the post was almost a year ago lol.

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## hypersomniacjoo

i know.  seemed like there was progress and then the fire ruined it.

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## MorphMaster

I hope desert females prove fertile because I saw an add for $700.

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## Andybill

saw one for 500 a 2012 hatchling... I just cant bring myself to buy a female even for 500...

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## Rallisonreptiles

Please tell me u got eggs from this clutch I just got a desert male and am gonna breed him next year with plans on keeping females but I heard females won't lay viable eggs have u hadany luck

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## dart

> Please tell me u got eggs from this clutch I just got a desert male and am gonna breed him next year with plans on keeping females but I heard females won't lay viable eggs have u hadany luck


You sir, have made a grave mistake.

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## Royal Hijinx

> Please tell me u got eggs from this clutch I just got a desert male and am gonna breed him next year with plans on keeping females but I heard females won't lay viable eggs have u hadany luck


You are very likely out of luck on your females.... I hope you plan to keep them or find an outlet for them as pets.  

Furthermore, you REALLY need to do a lot more research, as it seems the mortality rate for Desert females during breeding is unacceptably high.

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## Stewart_Reptiles

> Please tell me u got eggs from this clutch I just got a desert male and am gonna breed him next year with plans on keeping females but I heard females won't lay viable eggs have u hadany luck


You do realize that Pro Exotics has lost their entire collection in a fire last year right?

As for holding back female desert there are many threads out there which will help you make the right decision I am sure.

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## joebad976

> Please tell me u got eggs from this clutch I just got a desert male and am gonna breed him next year with plans on keeping females but I heard females won't lay viable eggs have u hadany luck


I hope the person that sold you this male gave you the scoop on what is going on with the females.

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## John1982

> Furthermore, you REALLY need to do a lot more research, as it seems the mortality rate for Desert females during breeding is unacceptably high.


This statement made me wonder, _When exactly did people start thinking there were problems and when did the knowledge become public? How many years were these animals being produced/sold before research via internet would have given you any hint about female fertility issues?_ Even now you have to know what to search for, and where, to come up with any useful information. I think this is pretty sad seeing as the morph has been around for over 10 years. I think it's sad that as a buyer I'm expected to ask the seller, "so, what kind of health issues can I expect from this morph?", and get an honest answer. Something new comes around and the first priority seems to be $$$ most of the time..   /end rant

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