# Site General > Pet Related Laws & Legislation >  Global Warming Could Mean No More Pets

## Adam_Wysocki

From The National Pet Association BLOG ...

First it was pet "non-native species", then it was pet pythons & boas, and now it's medium and large sized dogs ... and maybe even more. The first shot has been fired in what will surely be a campaign by those opposed to keeping animals as pets to call for bans on medium and large sized dogs in the name of saving the world from global warming.

In a report  published in a journal call "New Scientist" Robert and Brenda Vale declare that medium and large sized dogs have almost twice the carbon "footprint" as a large SUV. They go on to claim that smaller dogs, cats, parakeets, and even hamsters have a substantially negative influence on global warming.

    "This kind of analysis appeals to David Mackay, a physicist at the University of Cambridge and the UK government's new energy adviser. He believes we should put as much thought into choosing a pet as we do into buying a car."

A car? Really? Then what .... children maybe? How "green" is a family of five compared to a single physicist living in his parents basement?

This is yet another example of the same perversion of science used to claim that global warming will allow pet pythons & boas to "invade" 1/3 of the United States. Enough is enough.

It's important that discussions that attempt to link pets to politically heated topics like global warming are watched closely. It's even more important that pet owners are aware of the moves that are being made quietly within the scientific community that will inevitably provide special interest animal rights groups with the ammunition they need to advocate legislation that hurts pet owners.

The future is in our hands. Together, we can ensure that our children and generations beyond will all be able to enjoy the same love and connections that we have with our pets. Today, please take the first step towards that future by joining The National Pet Association. The membership is free, and every single member helps us to grow into a force that will be successful protecting pets and pet owners all over the country today and in the future.

Sincerely,
Adam Wysocki

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## BPHERP

Phrases like "Global Warming" are cliche's used to further hidden monetary agendas. It is a well known fact that the so called experts conspired to intentionally fraud the world, yet "Global Warming" rolls forward with little thought. 

In my opinion, "Global Warming" would complete the big 3 of all time scams...

The first being religion and its byproducts of control.

The second being the financial scandals of the current day.

And the 3rd, the icing on the cake, the attempt to tax us for so called "Global Warming".

For those looking for some alternative info on Global Warming, check this out...

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHART...alwarming.html

BrandonsBalls.

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_abuja_ (12-23-2009),_Ginevive_ (12-28-2009),_GregBennett_ (12-23-2009),_Hypnotic Exotic_ (12-23-2009),_neilgolli_ (12-23-2009),_Serpents_Den_ (12-23-2009),sho220 (12-23-2009)

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## panthercz

This was being covered on a local sports radio show here, one of the host's said he was going to go buy another dog just in protest of this kind of BS.

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## Wretched Deviant

Hah, I don't know whether to laugh or cry at how incredibly...incredibly stupid that is. Seriously? Wow, they're go at any angle to get rid of pets.

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_djansen_ (12-23-2009)

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## MattU

Those in power always find something to scare the people into submission...religion, war, disease, communism, terrorism, global warming.. Who knows what's next

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## Serpents_Den

> Phrases like "Global Warming" are cliche's used to further hidden monetary agendas. It is a well known fact that the so called experts conspired to intentionally fraud the world, yet "Global Warming" rolls forward with little thought. 
> 
> In my opinion, "Global Warming" would complete the big 3 of all time scams...
> 
> The first being religion and its byproducts of control.
> 
> The second being the financial scandals of the current day.
> 
> And the 3rd, the icing on the cake, the attempt to tax us for so called "Global Warming".
> ...



How about 911 and the war on terror, people still think it was Bush's business partner Osama Bin Laden orchestrating everything from a cave. The terrorist are from within our own government and a global network. People are living an illusion thinking they are free, guess again.

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Foschi Exotic Serpents (12-23-2009),_GregBennett_ (12-23-2009)

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## Custom Exotics

Great thread Adam, this is the scary part about these bills being passed now.  We have people sitting on their hands because the present bill doesn't relate to the animal they keep, yet if this bill passes whats next????  Ball Pythons?  Ratsnakes?  Kingsnakes?  Dogs? Cats?  You don't have to even be a reptile person to be indirectly affected by this bill, this bill if passed will eventually be the start to many more initiatives to begin taking away the family pet one by one.  Keep up the good work Adam.





> How "green" is a family of five compared to a single physicist living in his parents basement?


Priceless!!!!  :ROFL:

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## Serpents_Den

Wouldn't it be nice if we can just throw all the politicians out of office and take the District of Columbia and make it part of the United States. That would be getting deeper at the root of the problems we all face!

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## wafisherman

> How about 911 and the war on terror, people still think it was Bush's business partner Osama Bin Laden orchestrating everything from a cave. The terrorist are from within our own government and a global network. People are living an illusion thinking they are free, guess again.


Hmmm.  I was with your right up until "How about"...  :Confused: 



As for the OP, one single jet plane trip for Al Gore to give another paid speach to a bunch elitists creates a bigger so called carbon footprint than I create in a year.

Obama is so concerned with Global Warming, that just a week or so after he flew out to the big Global Warming summit in Indonesia, he just HAD to fly out to Europe to try and get the all important Olympics to his home town of Chicago.  Chicago?  Really?  Not only is a crappy place for the olympics...  But you can see that he put GAMES above the entire PLANET (assuming he actually believes in Global Warming...).

Global warming is big business.  And while some big companies stand to lose money, there is so much $$$$$$$ to be gained by jumping on the band wagon. Especially when you consider that the US is more than willing to further our debt to China to fund all the crazy programs people come up with to be 'green'... And soon they want to take OUR money and spread it to the poor countries to help battle global warming...    Really??  I can see helping fight genocide.  Aids even.  How about malaria?  Hungry children?  Nope, Al Gore wants to make money selling carbon offsets...  Sheesh!!

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## Serpents_Den

Research 911 and the Bush Familly. There are plently of documentaries you can watch on Google or YouTube. 

Here are a few. The Bush Family Fortunes, Loose Change Final Cut, 911 Ripple Effect.

And here is something most people forget, the third tower, Tower 7 going down in NYC.

YouTube - Wtc7 Common Sense 911 demolition

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## Serpents_Den

Who owns you? 

Find out here http://www.viewzone.com/collateral.html

If that's not enough dig deeper!

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## Raptor

I'm sure that guy would just love my family. Two horses, thirteen large dogs (ten of those are almost 6 week old puppies), two small dogs, and about 80 head of goats.

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## Derrick13

Wow, thats insane. people like this make people like me look insane ( I do believe in climate change and the theorys behind it , I just feel its not all humanities falt...anyway..) . People will use anything to further there greed, God, science, politics....nothing is safe anymore.

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## BPHERP

> How about 911 and the war on terror, people still think it was Bush's business partner Osama Bin Laden orchestrating everything from a cave. The terrorist are from within our own government and a global network. People are living an illusion thinking they are free, guess again.


911 is up there, but not in the top three as I see them.

Of course there are atrocities carried out on various peoples during recorded history, but the ones I touched on have global implications from an overall perspective.

Brandon

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## BPHERP

> Who owns you? 
> 
> Find out here http://www.viewzone.com/collateral.html
> 
> If that's not enough dig deeper!


OMG, WTF, LOL...thats nuts.

Brandon

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## pavlovk1025

We have to hold in our farts!!

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_Ginevive_ (12-28-2009)

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## Serpents_Den

> 911 is up there, but not in the top three as I see them.
> 
> Of course there are atrocities carried out on various peoples during recorded history, but the ones I touched on have global implications from an overall perspective.
> 
> Brandon



911, the illegal wars, the destruction of our Constitution/ Bill of Rights, the global warming is a war against humanity to bring in their New World Order.

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## Serpents_Den

> We have to hold in our farts!!


Go to the bathroom...lmao

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## Serpents_Den

> OMG, WTF, LOL...thats nuts.
> 
> Brandon


Here's something for your brain to nibble on....

The Money Masters - How International Bankers Gained Control of America


The rabbit hole goes way deep!

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## BPelizabeth

well correct me if I am wrong but hasn't it been proven that the earth goes through a natural warm and cooling progression and this has been happening forever??

Don't get me wrong....I do think we need to take care of the earth and we do need to cut emmissions.  But this over the top global warming...plueeeese

Has anyone heard what Build a Bear did....on their website that the kids go on...they have the elves stating that the snow is melting and Santa might not be able to take off this year.   :Surprised:   Are you kidding me....

My husband was so angry that he said NO MORE BUILD A BEAR!!

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## rabernet

> well correct me if I am wrong but hasn't it been proven that the earth goes through a natural warm and cooling progression and this has been happening forever??


Yes. And it's also been proven that other planets in our solar system are experiencing the same overall temp increases as we are, at the same rate. Those planets really need to clean up their act!  :Razz: 

Or perhaps, it's just normal solar shifts causing the global warming?

Remember in the 70's and 80's that we were being warned of global cooling?

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_neilgolli_ (12-23-2009),_Swingline0.0.1_ (12-23-2009)

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## MattU

There was an ice age 10,000 years ago...but were not in an ice age now. I guess caveman SUVs caused the earth to warm up huh? lol

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## WingedWolfPsion

Yes, global warming is part of a traceable natural cycle.  What difference does that make?  Human activities have shown signs of speeding up that cycle--not causing it.  The problem is that this is a natural disaster on an unprecedented scale.  Slowing it down may give people (and wildlife) just a bit more time to deal with it.

Some of the ways wildlife is coping is fascinating.  Polar bears aren't going to survive this, but they have a 'plan'--they're hybridizing with the grizzly bears they were believed to have evolved from in the first place.  These 'grolers' will be able to survive the warming as they lose their reflective fur coat, and are able to eat a wider variety of available foods.  Since we now understand that natural hybridization is part of evolution, it's really a wonder to see it in action.

What gets me is that they are promoting the fiction that we can stop the global warming cycle.  They're expecting us to forget what scientists already said when they first REALLY identified it--it's too late to stop it, if it was ever possible.

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_Auletto_ (12-23-2009),_Mendel's Balls_ (12-28-2009)

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## rabernet

> Yes, global warming is part of a traceable natural cycle.  What difference does that make?  *Human activities have shown signs of speeding up that cycle*--not causing it.  The problem is that this is a natural disaster on an unprecedented scale.  Slowing it down may give people (and wildlife) just a bit more time to deal with it.
> 
> Some of the ways wildlife is coping is fascinating.  Polar bears aren't going to survive this, but they have a 'plan'--they're hybridizing with the grizzly bears they were believed to have evolved from in the first place.  These 'grolers' will be able to survive the warming as they lose their reflective fur coat, and are able to eat a wider variety of available foods.  Since we now understand that natural hybridization is part of evolution, it's really a wonder to see it in action.
> 
> What gets me is that they are promoting the fiction that we can stop the global warming cycle.  They're expecting us to forget what scientists already said when they first REALLY identified it--it's too late to stop it, if it was ever possible.


Since the other planets in our solar system are experiencing the same exact rate of warming as Earth, how do you explain that? There are no humans there speeding up that process.

The guy on the radio last night swearing global warming was all man made couldn't answer it either and ducked and dodged that question pretty well.

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_neilgolli_ (12-23-2009),_Swingline0.0.1_ (12-23-2009)

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## Auletto

I just don't under stand how people love to ignore the fact that man is destroying the planet. The industrial ways of being is going to be the down fall of our way of life. If people don't try to scare the public no one will care or do anything to change their behavior. 

I would think people here care about nature more so that the rest of the public. Politics aside in another 100 years or so, man kind is going to be in big trouble if we stay on this path. 

I just watched a film on the big business of water, called Blue Gold. That's just another issues which the nay-sayers will say is another demarcate scare tactic.

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## BPelizabeth

Dont get me wrong....I am one of the biggest tree huggers/animal huggers out there as my husband calls it. (not much of a ppl hugger but that is another story).   I do believe in conservation....I do believe in cleaning things up and I do believe we need to stop destroying areas ...ie the rain forest.  HOWEVER with that being said....I do NOT want to be scared into something.  Lets get the truth and try to make things better.  Don't tell me I am causing all of this global warming and killing this and killing that when it is a natural cycle.  Do I want the polar bears to survive....OF COURSE!  Do I want some stupid company telling my son that Santa might not make it cuz the north pole is melting to fast....give me a break!

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## 2kdime

This couldn't be any more real of a statement.

I hope the Lord returns before that happens.






> 911, the illegal wars, the destruction of our Constitution/ Bill of Rights, the global warming is a war against humanity to bring in their New World Order.

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## Jaydizzl05

So... this global warming/pet report is complete crap.

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## WingedWolfPsion

http://www.ecohuddle.com/wiki/global-warming-myths

So, some of the other planets in the solar system are warming.  Others are not.  Which means this is not a universal trend with a single cause.  Logic Fail in those who thought that it was--but don't feel too bad, you were SUPPOSED to think that.

Now, if we assume that global warming and cooling cycles happen, then at any given time, some planets will be warming, and others will be cooling or holding stable.  One does not have to be a genius to figure that one out.
Obviously the same cause is not at work in all of these cases.  Especially not for distant little Pluto.  People with an agenda will say things that sound great, and encourage listeners to make assumptions.  In this case, the assumption is that because some of the planets in our solar system are warming, all of them are warming and there is a central cause.  That assumption is wrong.

Dissect what you hear CRITICALLY.  Every bit of it.  Because both sides are leaving out important information, and if you don't question it, you'll be led like a sheep, and you won't be able to make up your own mind from a knowledgeable position.

Now, for the folks in Florida who want to enjoy a frost-free lifestyle, that comes with a side dish of giant hurricanes--dig in.

Why would we think the earth might be cooling back in the 70s?  Ignorance.  we mistook the signs of global warming for global cooling.  It's not hard to do that, because global warming causes some areas to experience colder winters.

The problem is that predicting average temperature rises in the South doesn't take into consideration the fact that winters may be colder, which would prevent tropical snakes from establishing.  So, there is no need to attack global warming to refute the bs about the snakes expanding their colonization.

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_Mendel's Balls_ (12-28-2009)

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## Adam_Wysocki

As recent threads on this forum have demonstrated; whether Democrat or Republican, Global Warming Advocate or Skeptic, Liberal or Conservative ... pet owners are all very divided. The good news is that we all share something very unique. We share a special understanding of the way an animal can touch our lives and the lives of others. 

As most already know, for the first time in history, our future is uncertain. The global counter culture against "human ownership" of animals for decades has slowly and consistently made great strides to advance their agenda. That movement is now poised to begin taking action on their 50 year strategy to eliminate the ownership of animals from pet pythons to dogs and cats, cattle to chickens, fish to spiders. 

If we can choose to put aside our differences and be united against those who seek to take our pets, we will defeat them. There is a new future coming for pet owners and it involves activism, responsibility, and social good ... we must take control of our own destiny.

Blessings,

-adam

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_2kdime_ (12-23-2009),_cardell75_ (12-24-2009),_Custom Exotics_ (12-23-2009),Stewart_Reptiles (12-23-2009)

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## Jay_Bunny

You just can't use global warming to argue that we shouldn't keep animals as pets. I'm sorry but the millions of cows, chickens, and pigs that get slaughtered every day contribute FAR more to global warming than our dogs and cats. If they are REALLY concerned about global warming, than wouldn't they be stopping meat production? 

I just can't stand people that use science like this. Pets have nothing to do with global warming. Sure, my dog farts, but so do politicians.

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## Auletto

> ....I do NOT want to be scared into something.


Yeah, I agree that being scared into believing something is wrong. That's part of the reason I hated having Bush run our country into the ground for the past 8 years, but if you don't put a fire under people they won't take any action until it's too late. 

Only difference between Bush and Gore; is Gore wasn't lying about his agenda behind his scare tactics.

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## Auletto

As far as the pets and global warming issues is just plain out retarded.

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## Adam_Wysocki

> If they are REALLY concerned about global warming, than wouldn't they be stopping meat production?


Actually, this year The Humane Society of the United States authored and lobbied for a bill that forces the FDA to mandate farms to report their green house gas emissions and carbon footprint data each year. It passed.

Hmmmm .. What do you think they might try to do with that data in a few years?

For what it's worth, most of the senior staff at the HSUS is vegan and doesn't believe that people should have the personal choice to eat meat ... but they say that at this point they recognize that society isn't ready for laws prohibiting the consumption of meat.

I can't help but wonder what happens when they decide that society is ready?

I have no problem with being vegan or vegetarian ... hell, you could spend the rest of your life eating nothing but skittles for all I care (that's my 8 year olds plan) ... but I would like to be able to make my own choices.

Blessings,

-adam

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_Denial_ (12-23-2009),_monk90222_ (12-28-2009),_neilgolli_ (12-23-2009)

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## West Coast Jungle

Its all about the cow farts, haven't you heard?, LOL.

Global warming can be argued back and forth but for me I think we should burn cleaner fuels like natural gas or solar, not necessarily because of global warming, but becuse its safer, healthier and DOMESTIC. Foriegn oil puts $ in the hands of those who wish to destroy us, natural gas, wind and solar are made right here in the good old USA. I think we need to keep OUR $ right here, not to Saudia Arabia and other extremist cultures. Most of the 911 folks were Saudi's (see Osama) not Iraqi's(none). We live in a bubble in space and filling it with carbon monoxide cannot be good, forget about global warming. If you cooked in you house with gasoline you would kill EVERYTHING in the house, thats why we use natural gas to cook. The reason we still use so much gas and oil is not because other technologies don't exist, ask Picken's (a conservative), its because its the most profitable industry in the history of the world and they dont wish to give that up, would you?


Animals dont cause global warming, the morons in Washington spewing all that hot air do! :Very Happy:

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_Auletto_ (12-23-2009),_BPelizabeth_ (12-24-2009),_Custom Exotics_ (12-23-2009),_Swingline0.0.1_ (12-23-2009)

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## Jay_Bunny

Hmm, the skittle diet. I could totally go with that diet.  :Smile:  

I just think these people are looking for every excuse they can find why keeping pets should be illegal. I'm sorry but there are far worse things in this world you could be worrying about. War, domestic violence, drugs, keeping kids in school, world hunger. Those are very good things to worry about, but seriously, they want to worry about how much a rottweiler farts?

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## 2kdime

This is getting out of hand with these people.

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## Jay_Bunny

I'm pretty sure they are up there on the list. What I don't get is why everything has to be a ban. Its always a do or don't. Instead of banning all these things, why not just put some kind of law in place that makes it more regulated. Say you have two people who want a retic. One is a passionate reptile lover who has done a ton of research on the snake and has gotten the enclosure ready and everything. The other person who just thinks it would be cool to have a big snake to show off to his/her friends. Now, in order to purchase one of these giant snakes, you have to go through a permit process. You have to show you know about these animals, what they need, and what they are capable of. Maybe even show proof you have the right type of enclosure. Perhaps even go through a "Big Snake Training Course" if you are first time owner. (kind of like hunting when you have to take the basic hunting course here in Virginia before you can get a hunting license) Then and only then you can get a permit to own a retic. Who do you think is going to get the permit? 

But then someone could argue that people will sell and purchase snakes without the permit. Make it punishable by law to sell a "dangerous non-native" snake without a permit, punishable with a hefty fine. I know it sounds harsh but I would rather go through all of this and be able to keep my snakes legally and be able to sell them legally to people I know have gone through the effort of learning about these snakes, than to have this proposed ban. I know it sounds like a lot of control and many people don't like that. But think of how many people go into a pet store and buy a snake on a whim, take it home and then forget about it or it gets too big for them to handle. With measures like this in place, that wouldn't happen as often. I'm not saying it wouldn't happen at all, but definitely not as often.

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## Foschi Exotic Serpents

Serpents Den is not as "crazy" as some of you may think. If even those of you who are set in your ways & beliefs took the time to watch "Zeitgeist" (a whole 2 hours of your life) You would be shocked. 

The whole point of this thread is that more people need to stand up for what they believe in. Like they use to. What happened to the militia's, the resistance, the renegades..

People have become weak. The media has done its job and now we just lay down and take it. 

Im just glad the word about the snake ban bills is getting out. It seems finally some people who had no idea about it are finally having their eyes opened. Everything else will come in time. Those who own dogs/cats. They will see. When they come to take our dogs & cats, some of them will wish they had fought for the rights of other pet owners as well because if and when that happens, If my snakes are illegal (if it ever gets to that point) I wont fight for anyone elses pets.

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_Serpents_Den_ (12-28-2009)

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## Zach Spyker

Take my car my truck or SUV. stop supplying me with gasoline but don't touch my pets.

Sorry to all you nascar fans, but I would rather see that wast of gas and unnecessary pollution go before they think about taking our pets away.

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## neilgolli

> http://www.ecohuddle.com/wiki/global-warming-myths
> 
> So, some of the other planets in the solar system are warming.  Others are not.  Which means this is not a universal trend with a single cause.  Logic Fail in those who thought that it was--but don't feel too bad, you were SUPPOSED to think that.
> 
> Now, if we assume that global warming and cooling cycles happen, then at any given time, some planets will be warming, and others will be cooling or holding stable.  One does not have to be a genius to figure that one out.
> Obviously the same cause is not at work in all of these cases.  Especially not for distant little Pluto.  People with an agenda will say things that sound great, and encourage listeners to make assumptions.  In this case, the assumption is that because some of the planets in our solar system are warming, all of them are warming and there is a central cause.  That assumption is wrong.
> 
> Dissect what you hear CRITICALLY.  Every bit of it.  Because both sides are leaving out important information, and if you don't question it, you'll be led like a sheep, and you won't be able to make up your own mind from a knowledgeable position.
> 
> ...


In the 70's many of the same scientist that are now deleting emails and misplacing data also wanted to put coal on the polar ice caps.  The theory was that the black coal would absorb heat thus HELP melt the ice caps, keeping us out of an ice age........   Your current assumptions on what we MUST do NOW will destroy the US.  Blaming us, forcing the US to pay respirations to pour nations for the "damage" we have done.  

I'd like to again put my vote in for a Dislike button......

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_GregBennett_ (12-23-2009)

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## neilgolli

> You just can't use global warming to argue that we shouldn't keep animals as pets. I'm sorry but the millions of cows, chickens, and pigs that get slaughtered every day contribute FAR more to global warming than our dogs and cats. If they are REALLY concerned about global warming, than wouldn't they be stopping meat production? 
> 
> I just can't stand people that use science like this. Pets have nothing to do with global warming. Sure, my dog farts, but so do politicians.


The argument about dogs and cats is not about them farting.  Its about the food they eat and the "carbon footprint" it takes to sustain them.  Average size dog = 200lbs of meat and 95 lbs of ceral a year thus = 2. some blablabla acres of land needed to sustain.  

As Adam stated, there are huge efforts underway trying to limit or prohibit what we eat, including meat.  Many things have been proposed, including a $175 per year tax per head of cow owned (after 25 heads) per year to offset its "farts"  What do you think a tax like that would do to the cost of beef?  What do you think that increased cost would do to overall sales?  Just as with our pets, they are laying the ground work for the future.  

When unions like SEIU talk about bringing up the wages of the world, to level the playing field.  Do you really think they mean bring the rest of the world up to our standards or us down to the rest of the world?

I've said here before and I'll say it again, (btw, I'm not a conspiracy nut by anymeans) but grow a bigger garden and start raising chickens..... :Smile: 

BTW, we also now have pigs :Smile: 

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...00000268481138

Also good to be back to the forums, been gone for awhile, been really busy helping my father with the new company........   www.alwaysbestcareclevelandsouth.com

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## WingedWolfPsion

Neil, as far as I'm concerned, people can keep on going with their excessive carbon dioxide production if they want to.  Let them do it.  Let them speed up this process SO much that they have no time to evacuate the coastal cities, in fact.  If people want to do that to themselves, then so be it.  The US produces excessive amounts of carbon for its size and the number of people who live here.  We don't have to.  In fact, we're being incredibly stupid.  Maybe it's our increasingly poor education system, or perhaps it's religious or rightwing fanaticism at work, I don't know.

You see, being 'green' and efficient saves money.  In the long run, it saves quite a BIT of money.  People are just short-sighted and impatient these days.  They want cheap and fast, they don't want to shell out more now to get higher returns later.  I definitely blame religious fanaticism for some of that--people who think they're going to get sucked up into heaven soon don't care if they leave a mess behind when it happens.  The rest is pure fear of change--people just want to keep doing things the way they're used to, instead of doing them better.

Whenever things start to go bad, people look for scapegoats.  Our snakes are just one of those scapegoats right now.  It would be too difficult to REALLY go after the biggest polluters, so they're dinking around with tiny little BS and pretending to do something.

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## Derrick13

To WingedWolfPsion

You got some good points and I agree with you practically hundred percent, however when you say religious you should instead adress the religion that you are speaking of, for some religions ( like mine) promote stewardship, protection and unity with nature . No harm no foul , just keep this in mind next time , please.

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_BPelizabeth_ (12-24-2009)

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## WingedWolfPsion

I was addressing fanatics, not religion in general.  I didn't address a specific religion, because it matters a lot less which one it is, than whether people are raving insane over it. lol

There are plenty of religions that promote the idea that we're not going to be around here much longer.

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## wafisherman

> There are plenty of religions that promote the idea that we're not going to be around here much longer.


You mean like the religion of Environmentalism?

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_neilgolli_ (12-23-2009),Skiploder (12-24-2009)

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## Derrick13

> I was addressing fanatics, not religion in general.  I didn't address a specific religion, because it matters a lot less which one it is, than whether people are raving insane over it. lol
> 
> There are plenty of religions that promote the idea that we're not going to be around here much longer.


I figured as much lol ( bout the fanatic thing) however there are many that believe we are here to stay, for example ...branches of buddhism and hindu, neo pagans ( a good majority belive in reincarnation, but not all) and those who arnt religious or spiritual at all like athiests. Just stateing the fact that while less in number, many people do believe that this is our one and only world.

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## Derrick13

> You mean like the religion of Environmentalism?


Or the religion of conservatives...lol ect.

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## wafisherman

> I figured as much lol ( bout the fanatic thing) however there are many that believe we are here to stay, for example ...branches of buddhism and hindu, neo pagans ( a good majority belive in reincarnation, but not all) and those who arnt religious or spiritual at all like athiests. Just stateing the fact that while less in number, many people do believe that this is our one and only world.


And if you believe in moral relativism, who cares how you treat the planet?  There is not absolute right and wrong. So I can trash the place and not worry about it.  Humans are just another species that will eventually be extinct anyway.

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## withonor

I think when you make a crazy claims it becomes easier to get the less crazy ones through.

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## Derrick13

> And if you believe in moral relativism, who cares how you treat the planet?  There is not absolute right and wrong. So I can trash the place and not worry about it.  Humans are just another species that will eventually be extinct anyway.


Lol thats an easy one, I care becuse the planet is a beautiful place ( yes, they still exist out there lol) and I intend to keep it that way. Thats like asking why I clean my snake's cage clean lol.

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## WingedWolfPsion

> You mean like the religion of Environmentalism?


In a way--that is fanaticism without religion, but it can be just as harmful.  Environmental fanatics, like all extremists, are rejected by the majority of society because the situation they want to create is unlivable for most.  So, any message they MIGHT have that makes sense will be lost, and their ranting will take attention away from more moderate environmentalists who want to address specific problems in ways people can live with.

They forget that humans are part of the environment.  Groups like ELF taint public opinion of those who have legitimate arguments for why environments and species should be preserved.  This results in more loss of critical habitats.

Humans wind up having to learn the hard way that when environmentalism is ignored completely, people get sick and die, cures for diseases are lost, and inefficiency in systems runs rampant.  The blame for that can be placed most firmly on fanatics who are unwilling to compromise, and are very loud.  The rational arguments for why attention to preserving the environment will save money, improve human health, and make life better get lost in the noise.

I also don't believe in moral certitude--what's 'wrong' or 'evil' is what's bad for you, and what you don't like, and what's 'good' is what is good for you and pleases you.  That pretty much covers it all.  There may be things you like that are bad for you, but those type of things usually fall into more neutral categories, unless they kill you of course, and that pretty much ends the argument.

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_Mendel's Balls_ (12-28-2009)

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## Hypancistrus

> There is a new future coming for pet owners and it involves activism, responsibility, and social good ... we must take control of our own destiny.


Well said, Adam.

I found this link when doing some digging on this newest most ridiculous study.

http://www.drudge.com/news/128275/do...rint-than-suvs

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## WingedWolfPsion

I made a comment on that one, which might get deleted. lol

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## Mendel's Balls

> As recent threads on this forum have demonstrated; whether Democrat or Republican, Global Warming Advocate or Skeptic, Liberal or Conservative ... pet owners are all very divided. The good news is that we all share something very unique. We share a special understanding of the way an animal can touch our lives and the lives of others. 
> 
> As most already know, for the first time in history, our future is uncertain. The global counter culture against "human ownership" of animals for decades has slowly and consistently made great strides to advance their agenda. That movement is now poised to begin taking action on their 50 year strategy to eliminate the ownership of animals from pet pythons to dogs and cats, cattle to chickens, fish to spiders. 
> 
> If we can choose to put aside our differences and be united against those who seek to take our pets, we will defeat them. There is a new future coming for pet owners and it involves activism, responsibility, and social good ... we must take control of our own destiny.
> 
> Blessings,
> 
> -adam


I think you make some pretty valid points here in this post.....However, I think you undermine your position a little bit when you attacked the scientific community in your original post.  




> This is yet another example of the same perversion of science used to claim that global warming will allow pet pythons & boas to "invade" 1/3 of the United States. Enough is enough.


The Invasion Biology Paper was an example of a bad paper.  However, just because that paper was bad doesnt mean that this new research is bad.




> It's important that discussions that attempt to link pets to politically heated topics like global warming are watched closely. It's even more important that pet owners are aware of the moves that are being made quietly within the scientific community that will inevitably provide special interest animal rights groups with the ammunition they need to advocate legislation that hurts pet owners.


"Moves that are made _quietly_ in the scientific community?"  Your cooking up some conspiracy theory plot here.  

Come one ...it was published in a public book that based of scientific literature published in public journals and then reported on in a science news magazine (The New Scientist). That Doesn't sound very secret or quiet to me.


Furthermore, by making ad hominem cracks against scientists, academia, and the scientific community you alienate people within the scientific and academic communities that share some of your same values.  

Just because the research brings news that one doesn't like doesn't mean that it isn't valid.  

I found the article from new scientist rather informing.  That doesn't mean I'm ready to give up my dog either or that I agree with the recommendations of the authors  of _Time to Eat Your Dog._   However, someone who has 4 large dogs and drives  a Honda Civic yet complains about an SUV driver with 2 kids might want to think twice before knocking them. http://www.newscientist.com/data/ima...1/27311601.jpg

As I said the books author does make some ridiculous and somewhat impractical suggestions.  Like pets one can eat-probably wont work for most people.   A good commentary on the Vale's book:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09326/1015093-109.stm

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## Dragoon

well since people have the largest carbon foot print we should limit all families to two childeren maximum to save the planet, drop the demand for pets, free up jobs to lower unemployment, reduce consumption of all forms, and other BS (it is hard to type sarcasm).  people are the problem but no one will say it, it is all because of dogs and cow farts.

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## LunaBalls

!!NEW WORLD ORDER!!
                                        Support Alex Jones
YouTube - Infowars.com - New World Order (Movie Trailer)

YouTube - Alex Jones arrested for refusing to thumbscan

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## dr del

Hi,

Could we please ask you to keep to the topic at hand in your replies to this thread.

All purely political threads and statements rightly belong in the quarantine room and while there is doubtless a political aspect to the topic of this thread several posts made in it have no relevance whatsoever to pets or laws relating to pets.

We really would prefer not to have to move such an important issue off the public boards so please ask yourself if your point is general or specific to the topic of pet control before posting.  :Please:  


dr del

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_Mendel's Balls_ (12-29-2009)

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## Serpents_Den

> Hi,
> 
> Could we please ask you to keep to the topic at hand in your replies to this thread.
> 
> All purely political threads and statements rightly belong in the quarantine room and while there is doubtless a political aspect to the topic of this thread several posts made in it have no relevance whatsoever to pets or laws relating to pets.
> 
> We really would prefer not to have to move such an important issue off the public boards so please ask yourself if your point is general or specific to the topic of pet control before posting.  
> 
> 
> dr del



The point I was stating earlier on in this thread does relates to everything going on in this country and the world. Wake up people! The only way we can defeat this is by grouping together to get at the the root of the cause. Sure we can negotiate today and lose a wee bit of our rights but they'll never give up taking our rights away in little increments that we allow. 

The sooner people realize how badly we're being canned the sooner we start taking back our freedoms.

Monica, you mentioned the Zeitgeist Movie and I will recommend also watching Esoteric Agenda, check it out on google!


Here's an interesting article! 

How 16 ships create as much pollution as all the cars in the world.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...ars-world.html

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Foschi Exotic Serpents (12-29-2009)

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## Ginevive

Well.. I can see the desire of some, to cut down on their impact on the Earth and its envionment. I really can. At its root, I do not believe that this urge, is insane, or unwarranted. I personally think that the Earth is overpopulated, and have therefore chosen not to have children..

BUT! To potentially outlaw our pets.. to even base potential laws on something as unproven and unsubstantial as global warming.. Pure Rubbish. More Government trying to control, tax, and depress us more. Complete garbage.

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## BPHERP

The earth is millions of years old, and the universe even older...

...to assume that humans need to do things to stave off any condition is total and utter ridiculousness.

In addition, millions of species have gone extinct, and millions more will go extinct.

This is how its been since before time, and how it will always be.

Any other position taken is gleaned from a limited perspective of the bigger picture. 

Brandon

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## WingedWolfPsion

The sole purpose of attempting to slow global warming is to make things a bit more comfortable for ourselves.  This is the same reason we work to preserve species--we do not know what value their unique genetic combinations might prove to have in the future, and it's VERY clear we don't understand ecosystems well enough to recognized keystone species.  Loss of ecosystems will change the climate and devastate our food supply.

And, oh yeah--some of us LIKE ANIMALS.  That is why we keep them, after all.

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## Serpents_Den

> Loss of ecosystems will change the climate and devastate our food supply.


Our food supply has already been devastated by GMO's/pharmaceuticals and most of our water is fluoridated, in case you don't know sodium flouride is the main ingredient in rat poison.

Here's a great video clip from REXANO.

YouTube - We the Animals: Legalize the Constitution

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## Eventide

> A car? Really? Then what .... children maybe? How "green" is a family of five compared to a single physicist living in his parents basement?


First of all, you're going to alienate a lot of people with this insinuation that physicists are closet geeks who hide in their mothers' basements.  My undergraduate degree is in physics, and I resent this statement.  It shows someone who prefers to use false generalizations to get his point across, which is no better than what that USGS paper or the HSUS is doing.

Please, stick to the sound logical arguments, such as the greenness of a family of five.  There's no need to insult scientists in the process.




> Yes. And it's also been proven that other planets in our solar system are experiencing the same overall temp increases as we are, at the same rate. Those planets really need to clean up their act! 
> 
> Or perhaps, it's just normal solar shifts causing the global warming?


I'd like to see the peer-reviewed papers where it says all other planets in our solar system are experiencing the same temperature increase.  And yes, it must be all of them, or that logic does not hold.  Besides, temperature increases for the other planets does not necessarily indicate that our temperature increases are from the same source.  Some planets have magnetic fields, some don't; some planets emit more energy than they receive, some don't; some have atmospheres, some don't.  

Normal solar shifts are not responsible for the warming.  The sun does sometimes cause warming or cooling (i.e. the "little ice age" a few hundred years ago), but we know this isn't the case now.  We may not understand the causes of the 11-year solar cycle, but its effects on the earth are pretty well-understood.




> Dissect what you hear CRITICALLY.  Every bit of it.  Because both sides are leaving out important information, and if you don't question it, you'll be led like a sheep, and you won't be able to make up your own mind from a knowledgeable position.


THIS.  Sooo much this!  Please, everyone, THINK about what you're reading or watching; don't just take it as fact.  "You-Tube documentary"?  Hello, oxymoron!  Every media source has a bias, whether obvious or not.  I get the feeling, from all the links posted in this thread, that the vast majority of you believe everything you read and/or see on the Internet...and that scares me.  How are people supposed to take us seriously?

---

Face it:  the Earth is warming.  Global warming, in its scientific definition (not the media's), is happening.  The vast majority of scientists believe this.  Granted, that does not make it absolutely true, but check out the peer-reviewed papers concerning global warming (especially the plots).  Also see what other scientists are saying about those supposed "made-up" or "removed" data.  Don't just listen to what the media is spoon-feeding you.  On the same token, you shouldn't take what scientists say as honest-to-God truth, either.  However, if many scientists agree that the Earth is warming, then we need to take those scientists' views with a lot more than a grain of salt.

Now, as for the whole "ban pets because of their carbon footprint," several of you have it spot-on:  bull crap.  It's just an excuse.  I'd like to see the carbon footprint of all U.S. pets versus the carbon footprint of all the coal power plants in the U.S....

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_Mendel's Balls_ (12-29-2009),_xdeus_ (12-29-2009)

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## Serpents_Den

You have scientist saying the earth is warming then you have other scientist are saying the earth is cooling but those scientist are not asked to speak up on behalf of the public. The government has the technology to manipulate the weather so that is something else to think about.

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## Adam_Wysocki

> There's no need to insult scientists in the process.


I see nothing in my statement that is insulting to all scientists. Since I can't possibly have knowledge of the living arrangements of all scientists, it is not reasonable to believe that I was speaking about the entire profession. In context, it's pretty obvious that I was referring to one specific scientist who I am guessing lives in his mothers basement ... although I certainly could be wrong as it's been known to happen from time to time.

For whatever it's worth, where I come from adults who live in their parents basements are generally considered "losers" (before any of you basement loving freeloaders start sending the nasty emails, I have been there myself so lay off  :Wink:  ) and it has nothing to do with their profession, IQ, pencil protector, or 72 dodge dart. My shot was directed at the "loser" that I quoted. Had his profession been "savior of young dying babies", if he made that quote I still would have made the dig about living in his mothers basement.

If pointing out the absurdity of making comparisons between household pets and sport utility vehicles in an attempt to dictate which is more "environmentally friendly" doesn't afford me the opportunity to take a admittedly smarmy but completely necessary jab at some tool who actually attempts to give validity to the comparison causes me to alienate some people ... well then, I'm OK with that. I just call them like I see them.

Blessings,

-adam

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## BPHERP

For the groups who want to get technical, humans, for that matter, are consumers who use resources and lay waste to the lands they occupy, therefore humans are bad for the earth.

So, you see how stupid and how far we can take this issue?

BrandonsBalls

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## Eventide

> You have scientist saying the earth is warming then you have other scientist are saying the earth is cooling but those scientist are not asked to speak up on behalf of the public. The government has the technology to manipulate the weather so that is something else to think about.


Um....  

Yeah.  I don't even know how to respond to that....

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## WingedWolfPsion

> The government has the technology to manipulate the weather so that is something else to think about.


I'm the psychic, and that's too far out there for me, so you do the math. <lol>

The folks who break everything down to its 'carbon footprint' need a slap upside the head, and need to start taking other factors into consideration.   I would like to ask them if they have done the figures on the costs of increased medical and mental health care among non-pet-owners, as pets have shown to reduce stress and speed recovery from illness or injury.  All of these figures are too easily manipulated to give the result that's desired, simply by adding in or leaving out choice pieces of the total picture.

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