# Ball Pythons > BP Husbandry > Advanced BP Husbandry >  Question for those of you with large collections

## swansonbb

I recognize that I've gone from 0 snakes to 12 within 6 months, but I'm really enjoying it. I love how much my kids have gotten into it  - my 9 year old daughter wants a corn for Christmas. 

I realize I've yet to hatch my first clutch, but I'm thinking scale (I've got grandiose ideas).  Watching the Snakebytes videos has got me thinking.  Managing husbandry for a collection my size isn't that tough.  But what about when you have several hundred (or thousand) animals?

Efficiency has got to be the key for bigger breeders.  Feeding, cleaning tubs, changing water all seem relatively straight forward, even for large collections.

How do you keep the humidity up for the animals when in shed?  I use a spray bottle now, but no way would that work with a larger collection - there has to be a better way. Maybe some sort of pump sprayer (I'm envisioning the type of sprayer used for pest control- that type of thing)?

How do you manage your records?  Like who shed when, who ate when, etc...

I'm nowhere near ready (and may never be) for a several hundred animal collection, but these are the types of issues I think about. I blame the MBA.

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_Don_ (11-27-2012),WintersSerpentine (08-27-2016)

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## Annarose15

When you get to that level of breeding, you typically have employees.

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WintersSerpentine (08-27-2016)

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## Zombie

I'd say once I get to a thousand I better have employees  :Wink:

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WintersSerpentine (08-27-2016)

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## swansonbb

> When you get to that level of breeding, you typically have employees.


No doubt.  And I'm by no means planning on building a business like that.  But before you get big enough to need employees, you'd be doing it on your own.  Even with employees, finding the most efficient way to take care of your animals has to be the key to a successful business.

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WintersSerpentine (08-27-2016)

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## Annarose15

> Even with employees, finding the most efficient way to take care of your animals has to be the key to a successful business.


Agreed. It really depends on what space you have to work with. An industrial sink in the snake room would be a huge help to me, but I'm not willing to overhaul the plumbing in my house. I starting using a room humidifier this winter to save on misting any snakes not in shed - I refill it every other day. I use stackable water bowls so I can clean a full rack's worth at a time. Etc., etc. BTW, I have 36 BPs at the moment, as well as a carpet python, dog, cat, chickens, and a chahoua on the way.

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_Don_ (11-27-2012),_swansonbb_ (11-27-2012),WintersSerpentine (08-27-2016)

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## Mike41793

I dont think a fancy sprayer like that would be practical. How would you know whose in shed?

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## swansonbb

An industrial sink would be helpful.  I liked BHB's water bowl system.

@ Mike - I'm talking about spraying the tubs of the animals in blue.

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## Don

I have a whole house humidifier in my ball room.  That takes care of the humidity. 

 My advice would be get used to the size of your collection and grow as you feel comfortable. The bigger you get, the more you work out the systems and methods that work for you. 

I've visited and copied large breeders methods and have found that what works for them, doesn't always work for me.  I'm a visual person and use a label maker and color coded dots to track what I need to track. Babies have index cards. I've changed methods several times and as my collection grows, I'll probably continue to make adjustments.  BTW, I too have an MBA. Though, I don't let that get in the way.  :Smile: .

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_swansonbb_ (11-27-2012),WintersSerpentine (08-27-2016)

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## swansonbb

> BTW, I too have an MBA. Though, I don't let that get in the way. .


No joke.  It does make you think differently, though. I'm long past the "I have an MBA and thereby know everything" stage, more into the "I spent how much on my education? Can I do something fun with it?".  

 Even if I never significantly grow my collection, I like to think about the what ifs. Fun (in a sick way) to think about how I would do things if this became a full (or even a part) time gig.

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## Mike41793

> An industrial sink would be helpful.  I liked BHB's water bowl system.
> 
> @ Mike - I'm talking about spraying the tubs of the animals in blue.


Yes i realize that but how would you know whose in blue? Im picturing an industrial system being one that has some sort of nozzle/sprayer hooked up in every tub. If you just flipped that on how would you know who is in blue? 

Even if you had 100 animals i still feel like itd be just as easy to use a spray bottle. You open the tub, see the snakes in blue, give a couple shots of water, and close the tub. I feel like on my own i could comfortably care for 100-150 balls. (Im thinking 10male and 40female breeders and 50-100 babies). Anything more than 50ish adults and id probably need some help from a significant other or friend to keep up. Bc at that point id probably be breeding my own rats too and would have to care for all of them. Thats yearsssss down the road though lol.

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## swansonbb

No, not one of those industrial systems.  Picture a 5 gallon tub or so that you pump to build air pressure.  Like what an exterminator would carry around.

About rats - I know a lot of people breed their own.  I wonder if the time is better spent on the snakes.  If you're ordering enough, the economics might work out to the point that breeding rats just isn't worth it.

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## 3skulls

I use a sprayer now and only have 30+ snakes. Way easier. 

I started all my notes on index cards, moved all record keeping to a binder now. Made up my own record sheets and printed them out. 

Having extra tubs and bowls would help. 

The best thing is to find what works for you.

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_swansonbb_ (11-27-2012)

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## swansonbb

This kind of helped...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttyIEmD9htg&feature=plcp

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## Xaila

I only have 4 snakes right now but I keep records on them in Excel spreadsheets.  I'm an archivist by trade so I often get to wondering how large breeders manage their records, which I'm sure must be voluminous!

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## snakesRkewl

I've never sprayed a tub down yet and my snakes have one piece sheds every time they shed.
I'm personally not a fan of spraying tubs, there's no need to jack the humidity up and have it fall just to jack it up over and over in a cycle of too high then too low of humidity.
Don't put too many holes in the tubs and if needed slide the water bowl back over the hot spot also works really well for shed period.

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DooLittle (12-04-2012),_swansonbb_ (11-28-2012)

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## OsirisRa32

> I recognize that I've gone from 0 snakes to 12 within 6 months, but I'm really enjoying it. I love how much my kids have gotten into it  - my 9 year old daughter wants a corn for Christmas. 
> 
> I realize I've yet to hatch my first clutch, but I'm thinking scale (I've got grandiose ideas).  Watching the Snakebytes videos has got me thinking.  Managing husbandry for a collection my size isn't that tough.  But what about when you have several hundred (or thousand) animals?
> 
> Efficiency has got to be the key for bigger breeders.  Feeding, cleaning tubs, changing water all seem relatively straight forward, even for large collections.
> 
> How do you keep the humidity up for the animals when in shed?  I use a spray bottle now, but no way would that work with a larger collection - there has to be a better way. Maybe some sort of pump sprayer (I'm envisioning the type of sprayer used for pest control- that type of thing)?
> 
> How do you manage your records?  Like who shed when, who ate when, etc...
> ...


Ive only owned a BP for about 3 weeks now...but as for records go...the day after I got him I went to walmart and bought a spiral notebook....I listed his named, morph type and date of purchase on the front and have been keeping weight/feeding/viv maintainance/shedding notes in it chronologically as I go...my future snakes will each have their own spiral notebooks.....also I have noted any issues...like him not eating for a scheduled (every 5 days) feeding...(I am a scientist by education and trade so the whole notebook thing was very much second nature i guess)

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_Crowfingers_ (04-28-2016)

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## Valentine Pirate

> Don't put too many holes in the tubs and if needed slide the water bowl back over the hot spot also works really well for shed period.


Worked like a charm for me. The tubs aren't much maintenance humidity wise, but the one BP we keep in a tank has perfect sheds with this method.

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## barbie.dragon

My breeder has a long water bowl in every tub. A tub in a tub essentially and it holds water and helps with humidity but we live in Cali so it gets a little dry here  :Razz:

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## Mike41793

> I've never sprayed a tub down yet and my snakes have one piece sheds every time they shed.
> I'm personally not a fan of spraying tubs, there's no need to jack the humidity up and have it fall just to jack it up over and over in a cycle of too high then too low of humidity.
> Don't put too many holes in the tubs and if needed slide the water bowl back over the hot spot also works really well for shed period.


My thinking is that usually humidity would be 50-60%. When they go into shed i usually give them a shot or two on the hotspot and it makes the humidity go up. I mist once a day while theyre in shed. Im not sure how high that misting makes the humidity go up but ive never had a bad shed using this method. Next time a snake goes into shed ill try your method of moving the water bowl and see what happens.

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snakesRkewl (11-28-2012)

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## MrLang

I keep the whole room humidified with 1 humidifier at 55% or so, which keeps my snakes shedding perfect on paper towels without misting.

For feedings I have an excel sheet with a column for each animal. When I feed I enter the date on the side and go across and mark in pen who ate what, refused, weren't offered.

I have another sheet that I make random dated notes on; things like sheds for my females getting locked, weird behavior, full cleanings, etc. are there.

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## MrLang

I keep the whole room humidified with 1 humidifier at 55% or so, which keeps my snakes shedding perfect on paper towels without misting.

For feedings I have an excel sheet with a column for each animal. When I feed I enter the date on the side and go across and mark in pen who ate what, refused, weren't offered.

I have another sheet that I make random dated notes on; things like sheds for my females getting locked, weird behavior, full cleanings, etc. are there.

For cleaning I keep extra tubs. When I spot clean I simply drop the animal in a new tub with its hide and water and wipe/spray the dirty one.

For Water, I don't do it yet but a lot of people use a stabilizer (could be a ceramic bowl, piece of pvc pipe, anything) and drop disposable 4 oz shallow deli cup in it. You can fill a bunch and just do a clean swap into the tubs, dumping the old into a bucket and stacking the cups as you go. They might even be dishwasher safe  :Surprised:

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## reptileexperts

x2 to mr lang post about record keeping. Works for me as well like this. For humidity, water bowels toward the back of the cage but not directly on a heater works excellent and keeps humidity in tubs 60-66% all the time, no shedding issues. But I live in a pretty humid region, so any given day is 30-40% humidty in the entire house.

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## Don

For feedings, I use blue tacky.  I feed on the same day every week.  A rat goes into each bin (properly sized - label on the front of the tub tells me what size to put into each tub).  As I get to the last tub, it has been long enough to circle back to the first tub (after I've cleaned up my feeder bin).  Each tub is checked and if the snake has not eaten the rodent, I pull the rodent and place a blue tacky dot above the tub.  The uneaten rats go back into their bins.  At anytime, I can look at my racks and tell you which snake has not eaten and how many weeks it has been since it ate by the number of blue dots.  

I tried using paper records, but for me it is harder to know what is going on.  I keep my records on the metal bars above the tubs (ARS Racks).  With just a glance, I can tell you which snakes have shed and when they shed (by a label), which ones are eating or not (based on the blue dots), which males are paired with which females (males name is on a magnet that is placed over the female's tub when paired), which females have locked and when (by looking at the white board where it is tracked), which females are proven breeders, when and how many eggs they laid and the age of the animal.  Everything is on the racks in front of me.  Not knocking the paper or computer records, it just doesn't work for me.  The breeding records are on paper as a back up, but I hardly ever refer to them.

Baby racks are handled differently, because they may be moved around as they sell.  I use index cards to track feedings and transfer that data to an Excel spreadsheet.  I monitor live versus f/t feedings.  On the index card, I put the morph, sex, hatch date, first shed and weight at first shed.  Then track feeding dates and food item eaten.  Even my incubator has a white board on the door, so I can record data that I can see quickly while in my ball room.  

My point is to find what works for you and go with it.  With my method, I feel all of my 100+ snakes are well taken care of.  With just a glance around the room, I can see if anyone or anything needs any special attention and it takes me very little time to do.

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Badgemash (12-19-2012),Dark Lady Kat (12-04-2012),_LLLReptile_ (01-13-2013),_Mike41793_ (12-02-2012),_reptileexperts_ (11-28-2012),snakesRkewl (11-28-2012),_swansonbb_ (11-28-2012),WintersSerpentine (08-27-2016)

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## 3skulls

Good info Don. I think as I evolve and my collection grows, I'll incorporate a tag / sticker method. 

A quick glance and knowing who needs attention will make things a littler easier.

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## mechnut450

we only got a small collection  but I know it take me alone about 3 hours to clean, and feed out about 25 snakes lol. but I do handle the snakes and check for anything, and it so much easier  to use a paper towels

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## Freakie_frog

Started with one snake that grew to two that then grew to ten and now with the babies we're at about 250. The thing with have that many animals is having a routine. For example we feed on Friday and clean and water on Saturay, and with breeding everyone rests on Sunday and back to work on Monday. So even if s snake poops on Sunday it's not getting cleaned until Saturday. The reason behind that is that with a couple of hundred snakes and over you'd spend every waking hour spot cleaning and re-cleaning have a schedule and stick to it, that way you know everything is getting done so you don't miss watering 3 snakes and they dehydrate or for get to pull a feeder, or miss cleaning a tub for weeks..

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_Don_ (12-03-2012)

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## Foxtuning65

We currently only have 22 snakes but my methods work for me. Hatchlings are on newspaper and have very basic set ups. We will use index cards for feeding/shed so when they sell the card can go with them.I have a white board on the door to the reptile room that we keep track of the daily stuff, who shed, who's in blue, breeding etc. Every night I go by the door and get my binder. In my binder we have a spot for every single snake. Keep track of bowel movements, sheds and breeding and feelings.
As for water, I do the take a bucket in to refill dishes method. Works for me. Spot cleaning for any that are on aspen. We keep boas, balls and Burms. So our methods are mixed across several species and we've never had an issue. We too have extra tubs just in case for each rack. It actually takes longer to care or our iguana than our snakes.

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## EAC Reptiles

To the OP, I actually use a sprayer that you are talking about to mist down my tubs.  My house is extremely dry in the winter so I have to mist them.  I went to lowes and bought a 2.5g garden sprayer, took it home and cleaned every part of it and use it just for my snakes (I labeled it so it would not be used for anything else).  

As far as tracking information goes, I have tired many different methods.  I've tired methods that all the big name breeders use to little notebooks for each snake.  I settled on index cards that I made in excel.  I have all my information that I feel is important on them.  The only way to know what works best for you is to try different methods and see what fits you best.

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_swansonbb_ (12-02-2012)

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## Amos1974

Now that I have gone from 50 to 130+ in the last year the best change I made was going to plastic deli cups for water bowls... I used the 4" ceramic crocks until i got my freedom breeder tubs with the built in water bowl holders and found out that the 12 oz cups that fit the baby tubs fit perfect in the 4" crocks... it makes cleaning all the water bowls so much easier!

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## Amos1974

and I also use the sprayer you talked about...

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## Simple Man

It is time consuming even with 50-60 snakes. I can't imagine how it is for some midsized breeders with 100-200 animals.  :Surprised:  Here's some things that I think are key to my success.  :Cool: 

I have a well regulated heated sealed up reptile room. :Good Job: All my snakes are in racks.I use paper substrate to save time.  :TP: I don't use hides.I use a portable whiteboard to track in my reptile room and then input into iHerp.I use appropriately sized ceramic brulee bowls (easy clean, also heavy so no spills)I never mist or spray water. I simply move my waterbowls on the heat tape when I know an animal is in a shed cycle.I spot clean any major issues throughout the week but usually have a dedicated day for deep cleaning. (Saturday Snake Day)I clean the tubs/bowls that are setup with a certain snake and they go back with the same tub/bowls. (This helps prevent a lot of cross contamination. Once in awhile a tub/bowl is so bad I have to soak and clean it. I have a ridiculous amount of spare bowls cleaned, dry, and ready to go anytime I need them.)Hatchlings get paper towels in their 6qts (Hatchlings are dirty! This facilitates quick cleaning.)

I guess those are some of the tricks and smarter things I do make things manageable. It still takes a lot of time to do things right. I'm kind of OCD about stuff. I might spend more time than some people would deem necessary, but I've never had a sick snake and they all eat great. *knocks on wood*

Regards,

B

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## DooLittle

> I've never sprayed a tub down yet and my snakes have one piece sheds every time they shed.
> I'm personally not a fan of spraying tubs, there's no need to jack the humidity up and have it fall just to jack it up over and over in a cycle of too high then too low of humidity.
> Don't put too many holes in the tubs and if needed slide the water bowl back over the hot spot also works really well for shed period.


This is what I do to.  Water dish stays on the cool side ( humidity stays around 60ish), until I notice someone starting a shed.  Then I move water bowl to other side over the flexwatt (which bumps humidity just enough), and that works out perfect.  When shed is complete, water goes back to cool side.  I have never misted my tubs either.

Right now I have 6 bps, and 1 boa.  In a few weeks will have another boa, and probably another bp.  I feed on the weekend, Saturday or Sunday for the big kids.  My two little guys get fed every 5 days, my boa every 10.  I have a binder that everyone has a sheet in.  I mark feedings, weight, and sheds in there.  I have no science to weighing, usually when ever I get curious what they are up too which is about once a month, or when they shed.

I change water once on the weekend, once midweek.  In between if needed due to rat turds in the water and what not.  

I clean whenever I see a steamy window.  I'm kind of obsessive about cleaning.   If someone is dirty, they get cleaned.  Tub wiped down with f10, clean water, and clean towels.  This is especially fun at 5:30 am before work, lol, which is usually when they mess themselves.  But since I don't have very many, I am able to keep up with things this way. If you had hundreds, you would need a helping spouse/significant other/bff to help.   If you had thousands, you would probably have to have employees.  As is, we breed rats and hubby helps with that.

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

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## 3skulls

For the people who place the water bowl over the heat, do you worry about bacteria growth at all?

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## DeadGirlSuperstar

interesting read definitely a few good points to consider  :Smile:  x

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## bubblz

_Bacterial growth is only an issue if you keep the water warm too long and don't change it often. With mine it's a little different depending on the snake since some like to soak during a shed while others don't. For the ones that don't I keep the humidity up just by wetting the substrate over the heat tape. For the one's that do like to soak I move their water bowl closer to the heat tape but not actual over it. They start soaking just before they go into blue and come out right after or just before they clear up for the shed. Which can be a few days to a week then their bowl and water is changed and moved back to the cool side as soon as they come out of it. Unless they pee or poop in their water it'll take much longer than a week for serious bacterial growth._

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_3skulls_ (12-04-2012)

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## 3skulls

I was thinking a day over the heat and it would explode with bacteria. That's good to know

It gets super dry in my house during the winter, the other day it was around 25%
Just added a new humidifier and it's working great. I was just always under the impression that it wasn't good to use the water bowl. 
Might have to try that. 

Its Always cool to see what works for everyone !!

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## Jonas@Balls2TheWall

> I'd say once I get to a thousand I better have employees


Im pretty sure you will need employees way before the 1k mark.

Humidity shouldnt be an issue unless you have a lot of air flow through your snake room.

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## Sand

I have basic info(ID/Name, morph, gender, and initial cost), feeds, weights, and, pairings logs all excel spreads. Humidity isn't an issue with sterlites (that I've noticed) all my charges shed out completely and haven't had any problems yet.. Aside from having to clean tubs 2-3 times a week... My charges seem to think it's fun to hide under the bowls... Mind you after they flip them over.. I can't wait for breeding season to end.. then back on aspen and back to spot cleans..

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## LLLReptile

Just did a count and I'm at just under 60 animals in my personal collection - for me, the biggest thing is establishing a routine.  Snakes get detailed record keeping, since it is usually a week or more between noteworthy events in their care.  The lizards (blue tongues and frilleds) I don't really keep a detailed record of, but I do interact with them on a nearly daily basis nor do I have nearly as many of them, so it's easier to remember who ate what and when.  The various geckos all have an easy system of feeding that I just refill every couple days (either Repashy or giant mealworms, and crickets once a week when the snakes are fed).  

All of my lights are on timer systems, and the snake tubs and cages are all on rheostats or thermostats.  Since I have a range of species from balls to bullsnakes to ATBs, plus the various lizards and geckos, I spend about 20 min every morning going through all the cages to check on everyone and mist cages as needed.  I have several fogger systems as well for the species that require even higher humidity, but I currently live in an exceptionally dry part of SoCal...so there's just no way to get around misting the cages in addition to fogging them.  A pressure spray bottle helps me, takes a matter of seconds to spray each cage! 

Once a week, I spend a morning or afternoon doing routine maintenance - spot cleaning all cages, and completely cleaning out a tub or a cage or two.  I acquired the quantity of animals I did because I enjoy spending a day just going slowly through the cages cleaning and working with them, messing with my favorites and making each cage "pretty" and enjoyable for myself and the animals.  Work is work, and I'm accustomed to helping my staff maintain several hundred reptiles at any given time, so it's nice to slow down and really mess with each reptile I own.  

-Jen

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_Valentine Pirate_ (01-13-2013)

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## cchardwick

I have 14 snakes now, I couldn't imagine washing water bowls for all my snakes after going to disposable deli cups.  Don't plan on washing them either, just dump in a bucket and replace, so easy.  Saves me tons of work.  I would also think spot cleaning aspen would be way easier than paper on the bottom, may be more expensive but way easier.  My rodents take way more work than all my snakes put together.

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## stickyalvinroll

Have to realize bhb is a full time business with employees. It's not a hobby any more in that scale. You could probably care for several hundred snakes l, but you'll have to put all of your time into it tho

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## For Goodness Snakes

After my babies hatch out this year I'll have about 350 ball pythons, I also have several Boas, a blue tongued skink, a black and white tegu and a 12 foot long male albino Burmese python. I like to use deli cups inside larger bowls that I get at the dollar store for my ball pythons. I don't even think about humidity and never have, I can't remember the last time I didn't get a full shed. I produce between 300 to 500 rats per month to feed my snakes, this saves me between $15,000 to $20,000 a year.

I don't keep feeding records and the only shed I'm interested in is the POS (post ovulation shed). I keep all of my reptiles on newspaper that I get for free. I have a wash basin inside my breeding facility and all of my ball pythons are in racks.

The walls and ceiling are totally insulated with R-30 batting and this is probably the most important thing, everything in my breeding facility is on wheels. I have a wash basin in the snake room that I couldn't live without. 

I clean between 30 and 40 cages a day and will clean and replenish 40 to 50 water bowls per day. I like to change out all of my water bowls atleast once every 3 days. Keeping the water bowls clean will go a long way in keeping my snakes healthy. 

I use provent-o-mite every 30 days in my snake room to proactively keep a mite free environment.

Because I am a California State certified animal health technician I can take care of most minor health issues that happen with my animals. Depending on your husbandry vet bills can add up pretty fast.

I also do between 200 and 300 educational reptile presentations a year at schools, libraries and birthday parties in the San Francisco Bay Area. I do all of the correspondence and scheduling of the reptile programs.

Because this is what I do for a living it's very important to keep the over head as low as possible, my labor is pretty cheap.

I hope this helps.

Brian

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## Caspian

I actually live in Northern Nevada - the high desert, with horribly low humidity most of the time. But I don't spray my snakes at all. I just keep a water bowl in their tub, use a rack, and the humidity takes care of itself. Sometimes, if it's particularly dry, I may splash a bit of water from the water bowl toward the warm end of the tub, but usually I don't. I only have seven BP's right now, though. Most of them had poor sheds the first time after I got them, some for one or two more times after that, but after settling in they all have perfectly good sheds. Maybe not in a perfect whole, but that's just because they tend to split the front of it in half while removing it. I just use heavy pottery bowls... harder to wash, but without having a huge number of snakes, I'm more worried about having something that they can't tip over - since Shasal LOVES to dump her water. Then sits on top of a hide waiting for me to dry the tub out for her.

My ambitions are pretty small, though. A few more snakes, but mine are pets first. Not very many more.

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