# Other Pets > Dogs >  Puppies!!!

## Luke Martin

Woke up to an odd whine this morning around 5 and walked in the kitchen and there's a puppy laying on the floor!  She wasn't due until Sunday but I'm not complaining!  6 healthy puppies and 1 stillborn.  Not bad for her first litter too!

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## Spaniard

What a bunch of cute little sausages, congrats!

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## stratus_020202

Yes, how adorable!! Lab?

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## Luke Martin

Pitbull  :Smile:   I call them little candy bars

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## blackcrystal22

Awwww I love pitbulls.  :Very Happy:

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## Repfanaticlady28

> Not bad for her first litter too!


First AND last I hope. They're cute, but have you not been to a shelter lately? There are TONS of homeless pit bulls in shelters. Not to mention all the other homeless dogs and puppies. I got both of my dogs from the local shelter (one is a blue nose pit bull who was there for 3 months) and I wish I could adopt more, but I don't have room. I've now joined our local spay & neuter group. For the whole month of February this year we helped to get 574 animals spayed & neutered, but there are still too many careless people that think their contribution of 6 puppies isn't going to make a difference to the already overpopulated earth. You just killed 6 shelter dogs and added who knows how many more unwanted pit bulls to the list. Congratulations.

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_stratus_020202_ (04-17-2009)

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## LadyOhh

> First AND last I hope. They're cute, but have you not been to a shelter lately? There are TONS of homeless pit bulls in shelters. Not to mention all the other homeless dogs and puppies. I got both of my dogs from the local shelter (one is a blue nose pit bull who was there for 3 months) and I wish I could adopt more, but I don't have room. I've now joined our local spay & neuter group. For the whole month of February this year we helped to get 574 animals spayed & neutered, but there are still too many careless people that think their contribution of 6 puppies isn't going to make a difference to the already overpopulated earth. You just killed 6 shelter dogs and added who knows how many more unwanted pit bulls to the list. Congratulations.


While I understand your ire on the subject, you don't know Luke, and you don't know the situation...

You are assuming too much to be jumping on his back about this...

There is a time and a place for debate, and this isn't one of them.

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_Alice_ (04-18-2009),_Blu Mongoose_ (05-01-2009),_Bruce Whitehead_ (04-18-2009),MarkS (07-24-2013),_monk90222_ (04-17-2009),Muze (05-01-2009),nickdafish97 (05-01-2009),_OhBalls_ (04-17-2009),SlitherinSisters (05-31-2009),wmanning (04-28-2009)

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## MarkS

Oh, I'm sure that Luke already had buyers lined up before his :cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r: even came into heat.  For some people, shelter dogs are great, but not everybody want's a shelter dog and all the problems that can come with them.

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_Bruce Whitehead_ (04-18-2009)

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## JohnNJ

> You just killed 6 shelter dogs and added who knows how many more unwanted pit bulls to the list. Congratulations.


Brook:

You have a unique way of bringing people over to your way of thinking.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## stratus_020202

I agree. I really think people with purebreds should keep breeding. I have absolutely nothing against shelter dogs, and have a few myself. I think any thing not purebred should be spayed and neutered. And mutts are wonderful companions. I know I'm getting flamed for this, and I am apologizing in advance, but we also need to keep purebreds in circulation. I don't think we need 1000's of breeders out there, but there should be ways of keeping every breed alive. Not just spay and neuter everybody. Just my opinion, and not meant to offend anybody.

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## Repfanaticlady28

> you don't know Luke, and you don't know the situation...


Don't need to. It doesn't matter if it was accidental or planned. It was irresponsible either way, so my previous post still stands. Unfortunately, there's nothing I can do about it. I will still state my opinion whether people like it or not. 



> There is a time and a place for debate, and this isn't one of them.


Who said anything about a debate? I'm just stating my opinion and I'm pretty sure that's what forums are for. 



> You have a unique way of bringing people over to your way of thinking.


JohnNJ: I'm not trying to bring people over to my way of thinking. It's pointless. Sad but true. 



> For some people, shelter dogs are great, but not everybody want's a shelter dog and all the problems that can come with them.


As far as I'm concerned those people shouldn't own dogs. Purebred dogs have behavioral and health problems also. Yes, that is my opinion and yes, it's pointless to argue. 

I didn't post to start an argument regardless of what anybody thinks. I am allowed to state my opinion just like everybody else......like it or not.

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## MarkS

> I didn't post to start an argument regardless of what anybody thinks. I am allowed to state my opinion just like everybody else......like it or not.


Maybe so, but you can be a little nicer about it.  Saying he's a killer of shelter dogs when all he is doing is posting pics of the new pups that he's very proud of is just too extreme.  And that's MY opinion.....Like it or not.

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_Blu Mongoose_ (05-01-2009),_stratus_020202_ (04-17-2009),wmanning (04-28-2009)

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## LadyOhh

You see, here is my OPINION on it.

You didn't state your opinion. 

You went above and beyond opinion to be harsh, rude and in your face about your feelings about the situation.

You are absolutely entitled to your opinion.

And we are absolutely entitled to show you that you are becoming borderline fanatic PETA about a situation you know nothing about.

And for the record, I agree that PitBulls are overwhelmingly in the pounds, and that they are killed unnecessarily. 

As I said before, there is a time and a place, and if you wanted to share your opinion, you could have said:

"Those are very cute, Luke. I hope that they will all find good forever homes, as there are plenty of Pits in shelters that have been given up and unfortunately euthanized because people don't understand the breed." 

You see how that is different from what you posted?

There you go.

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_Alice_ (04-18-2009),_Blu Mongoose_ (05-01-2009),_frankykeno_ (04-17-2009),_Michelle.C_ (04-17-2009),_monk90222_ (04-17-2009),Muze (05-01-2009),_stratus_020202_ (04-17-2009),wmanning (04-28-2009)

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## Luke Martin

I appreciate your opinion and I understand your views.  I've rescued dogs from shelters and love my dogs unconditionally (actually got suspended from work because my boss said she was ok by herself but I stayed home) but if these weren't pure bred and just mutts or pits without papers I wouldn't have bred them.  I also believe that purebreds should be bred as well.  I can't help that somebody's mutt made it into someones back yard and bred with their dog so now no one wants them.  There are many irresponsible owners of pits and dogs in general and yes shelters are full of unwanted animals and I appreciate your help in the shelters and adopting out dogs and spaying and neutering so many.  I am a responsible owner and screen any customers that I sell to to make sure that these puppies are going to loving responsible owners.  As stated shelter dogs do have a lot of problems and many don't want to bother with them...I know its bad but its how things work.  If the people wanting to buy my dogs wanted a shelter dog I believe they'd already have gotten one don't you think?  Saying that I'm irresponsible and killing other dogs because I brought these dogs into the world is (for a lack of a better term) stupid.

For everyone else....thanks for looking and I appreciate the comments  :Smile:

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_Blu Mongoose_ (05-01-2009),_frankykeno_ (04-17-2009),MarkS (04-17-2009),_West Coast Jungle_ (05-11-2009)

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## OhBalls

> While I understand your ire on the subject, you don't know Luke, and you don't know the situation...
> 
> You are assuming too much to be jumping on his back about this...
> 
> There is a time and a place for debate, and this isn't one of them.


I ABSOLUTELY agree with you!
That post is completely out of line

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## catawhat75

I understand what Repfanaticlady28 is saying. While she may not have put it in the best terms, I totally understand the passion behind it. I can also say I am more insulted by the "just mutts" comments. I have mutts and they are no better or no worse than purebred dogs. And shelters are full of the much "coveted" purebreds. Oh, and shelter dogs don't have more issues just because they are shelter dogs. If they have issues (mine didn't and many don't) it is due to irresponsible PEOPLE, not the dogs. 

Personally I don't think anyone should be breeding unless they are showing or bettering the breed. I have pulled way to many dogs, transported too many dogs and watched too many dogs die- mutt and purebred. 

That said, please at least have those who buy your dogs sign a spay/neuter contract as well as be willing to take them back if they don't work out in their new homes. 
They are cute.

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Repfanaticlady28 (05-01-2009)

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## Luke Martin

I'm not saying that mutts are bad or that purebreds are better than them.  I'm saying that many people are superficial and want to buy purebreds...as much as you want to preach its just the way people are.  I understand your compassion and sympathize with any dogs that have been treated unfairly and are in shelters but that doesn't mean that my breeding my dogs is a bad thing.  I'm no breeder by any means this is my first litter ever and don't plan on many more.  What I don't condone is puppy mills and/or people breeding the crap out of dogs just to make as much money as possible.  Hmmmm....sounds a lot like another business I'm very familiar with.  Like I said before I screen all buyers and know that my dogs are going to a good home where they will not end up in a shelter.  I even do the same when selling big snakes....are you going to tell me its wrong to breed big snakes because of a few dumbasses have let them go in the wild too?

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## Luke Martin

And yes heather....we are now having this discussion lol

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_LadyOhh_ (04-18-2009)

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## catawhat75

We don't have the vast amount of snakes in shelters the way we do dogs and cats. It is your right to breed, if it makes you happy do it. I just will never agree with what you are doing. 

I am not attacking you or what you have or will do. All said in my previous post was I understand where she was coming from. As for the mutt comment, very used to it by lots of uneducated people (no, I am not saying you are just in case you thought that) who then turn around and ask me to help them find a peek-a-poo or some other designer dog- AKA mutt! 

It is like what we are dealing with right now, the people who don't have snakes don't understand our passion. Unless you have done true rescue, you don't get it.

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Repfanaticlady28 (05-01-2009)

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## Luke Martin

But what you don't get is that I HAVE done "true" rescue and DO get it....why does that mean I have to agree with your views that dogs shouldn't be bred?  Maybe my rescue work wasn't as good as yours right? lol

Plus we don't have snake shelters.... :Wink:

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## monk90222

Adorable puppies! 
Don't let anyone rain on your parade with their radical views. 

More power to ya!

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## catawhat75

> But what you don't get is that I HAVE done "true" rescue and DO get it....why does that mean I have to agree with your views that dogs shouldn't be bred?  Maybe my rescue work wasn't as good as yours right? lol
> 
> Plus we don't have snake shelters....


Seriously, where in the he** have I said dogs shouldn't be bred or that we have to agree? Have you read a single word I said other than what you obviously took the wrong way? I have always tried my best to be polite on this site and not to try to start things but... Walk away, will walk away- not worth my time...

As for "radical"  FU- I don't just care about reptiles, I care about all animals. 
By the way mods, if I need rep points or whatever due to this thread, I understand. Just understand that I really kept a lid on my temper and didn't say 10% of what I wanted to.

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Repfanaticlady28 (05-01-2009)

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## Michelle.C

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and preferences. While you can tell people your opinion, maybe a thread of a proud owner showing off his dogs isn't the best one to express those opinions. 

IMO, another thread should have been started to express the opinions "Shelter vs. Breeding Programs".

All of that being said; I own seven pure bred dogs and I have had an accidental litter of puppies. We even kept three of the little monster puppies. Once we made that mistake though, everyone was neutered, no more puppies, ever. So, I understand why someone wants to own purebred dogs; however, I have also RUN a shelter. We rescued over 50 dogs in our short time running the facility. We paid full medical bills (even paying for neutering, spaying, heartworms treatment, etc.) we found all of those animals a happy (and hopefully forever) home. 

Our general rule was; for every purebred dog we BOUGHT, we donated $200 to our local shelter and automatically donate $500 every year to our local shelter. So, hopefully, it would offset itself some.

 I am an extreme advocate for rescuing over breeding, but..I can not control anyone and I have no desire to. I present my opinion and let them make up their mind. I simply present them with the fact that; 7-8 million Cats and Dogs are euthanized every year.

I also want to add, all of our cats are rescue animals.

To the OP: those are beautiful puppies, I hope you have forever homes lined up for them!  :Smile:

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## Luke Martin

> I just will never agree with what you are doing.


so what am I doing that you don't agree with then if you don't mind me breeding my dogs?

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## Jt.

Hm.

Dog doesn't look purebred to me. What has it done to be worthy of being bred aside from having "papers"?  :Confused:

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## Jerhart

It's sad how quick people can be to judge... :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

Congrats Luke on a beautiful litter!!  :Good Job:

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## catawhat75

> so what am I doing that you don't agree with then if you don't mind me breeding my dogs?


I never said I don't mind you breeding, I said it was your right.

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## llovelace

> Hm.
> 
> Dog doesn't look purebred to me. What has it done to be worthy of being bred aside from having "papers"?


Well welcome to the forums.

Luke I'm sorry this joyful experience has turned into such a debate, your puppies are beautiful  :Smile:  I hope they & mommy are doing well.

As far as the debators go.....well I'll just say this, With this breed of dog, it is not the type you want to get from a shelter without knowing the lineage or history of the dog.

In the past I have adopted a couple pits from shelters, and they had issues (like some shelter adoptees can).  I had one that did not like black people, why I don't know, but she would start foaming at the mouth trying to tear thru the chain link fencing.  So I had to take special care with her.

If I were to get another pit, it would be from a reputable breeder and not from a shelter.





> And we are absolutely entitled to show you that you are becoming borderline fanatic PETA about a situation you know nothing about.


 :ROFL:   :ROFL:   :ROFL:   :ROFL:

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## Bruce Whitehead

Loving those pics.  :Very Happy: 

Been a lot of years since I had a pup or a dog. Looks like momma is doing an AMAZING job with this, especially for her first litter.

Bruce

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## Luke Martin

> Hm.
> 
> Dog doesn't look purebred to me. What has it done to be worthy of being bred aside from having "papers"?


She is  :Wink:  I have 6 generations of papers on her lineage.

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## pitbulls4me

Does momma have any titles? Or do obedience or any other kind of work? Not flaming or trying to get anything started as I believe in breeding as long as you do it responsibly and prove the dogs' worth for breeding as it has been stated before that there are lots of homeless pitbulls in shelters. I also believe that the 'breeder' should do their part in rescue whether it be through donations or fostering the breed that they are also adding to the population of. 

I am also going to mark on the topic of nothing getting a pitbull from the shelter because of their issues.... Any dog can have issues, people make a bigger deal of it because of the breed. It is a not a dog for everyone, if you cant deal with the slightest bit of issues, especially something as simple as socialization than you shouldnt own a pitbull maybe not even a dog in general. There is no reason not to get a pitbull from the shelter even though you dont know the lineage (even though lots are turned in with papers) or history. With this breed it doesn't matter! And what does lineage matter if they are spayed and neutered? They are an easily trained dog and if you have issues with socialization that can be fixed, especially with people. I dont want anyone coming on here and reading all the negative things about adopting a pitbull from the shelter because it might have 'issues'. They are wonderful dogs and I do pitbull rescue where I get all these wonderful dogs from shelters. I have had issues but it is mostly because of the owners ignorance but nothing that wasnt worked through to have the loving social dogs I have today.  I am not against buying from a reputable breeder (see definition above) but if you are considering a rescue pitbull go for it. Nothing a little training wont fix or adopting a puppy if you want to start 'fresh'. 

Good luck with the puppies. They are adorable. I hope they find loving responsible forever homes!

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_catawhat75_ (05-07-2009),Repfanaticlady28 (05-01-2009),_SatanicIntention_ (05-01-2009)

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## harm286

i own a pit and its illegal to keep them in the city period ...
man get them cuties a nice home and keep them away from michael vick type characters lol ... 


ONCE AGAIN A DOG IS ONLY AS STUPID AS HIS TRAINER

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Repfanaticlady28 (05-01-2009)

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## Repfanaticlady28

> Does momma have any titles? Or do obedience or any other kind of work? Not flaming or trying to get anything started as I believe in breeding as long as you do it responsibly and prove the dogs' worth for breeding as it has been stated before that there are lots of homeless pitbulls in shelters. I also believe that the 'breeder' should do their part in rescue whether it be through donations or fostering the breed that they are also adding to the population of.


Thank you! I know I didn't say it well, but at least SOMEBODY did. Although, I don't agree with breeding at all......especially dogs that are banned in whole states and have enough problems finding and keeping homes with good and responsible owners. Just because a dog has papers doesn't mean it should, or needs to be bred. Has this dog placed in shows? Are she and the father CGCs? Papers just don't cut it. Sorry.

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_SatanicIntention_ (05-01-2009)

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## Blu Mongoose

Very cute puppies!! :Very Happy:

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## nickdafish97

Beautiful pup's, and I am sure that you are taking the necessary step's in finding good home's! Don't let 'em ruin it.

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## pitbulls4me

> Thank you! I know I didn't say it well, but at least SOMEBODY did. Although, I don't agree with breeding at all......especially dogs that are banned in whole states and have enough problems finding and keeping homes with good and responsible owners. Just because a dog has papers doesn't mean it should, or needs to be bred. Has this dog placed in shows? Are she and the father CGCs? Papers just don't cut it. Sorry.


Thank you. I believe in more than just papers and titles as well. I think all dogs need to be health tested (heart, hips and eyes). There are just too many dogs out there to breed anything with papers. Or even a dog who is champion lined. A champion sire can and will throw not so great looking puppies. And then I think a good breeder will health test the puppies as well. A breeder I know that breeds labs has puppies eyes tested at 7 weeks to make sure they dont carry anything. Parents are tested for hips, heart, and eyes. They are also tested to see if they carry the myopathy gene. If she doesnt have a quality animal no matter how well they do in trials she doesnt breed them.

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_catawhat75_ (05-07-2009),Repfanaticlady28 (05-01-2009),_SatanicIntention_ (05-01-2009)

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## fr4nn

Also there is a lot of reputable pitbull breeder out there that show their dogs or their dogs are titled and compete in many different activities that are not breeding their dogs for the simple fact that pitbull are being overly bred these days, it is a fact.  Go to a shelter or rescue groups and you will see that most of their dogs are pitbulls.

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## zackw419

Breeding Pits seems fine to me as long as puppies are going to good homes.

I am all for getting shelter dogs, that's my style.

But, just because pits (and other dogs) are being euthanized in shelters doesn't mean you should refrain from breeding. Its always nice to save a life but not everyone wants a dog from a shelter. I don't think anyone is obligated to save a dog unless they want to.  Breeding is a beautiful thing, as long as it is done responsibly.

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## Jay_Bunny

You posted these pictures just to show off some cute bundles of joy and they are adorable! And mom seems to be doing a great job.  :Good Job:  I just love that color on a dog, especially pits. 

Any chance of you posting a picture of the father?

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## Denial

Nice puppys. Some people have no choice in getting a shelter dog some of the pounds around here kill the pitbulls and rotties when the come in just because of the breed. 

Every reptile here gets put down when they come in

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## BuddhaLuv

Are they Blue pits? I can't really tell for sure from the pics. They are little cuties though :Smile:  Glad they all seem to be doing well and that you are a good breeder. 

There are too many backyard breeders that we see on a daily basis where I work (Exotic Vet). They breed the dogs time after time after time. I definately applaud you for making sure you are breeding good health into the breed and that they are well taken care of.

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## SugarFox03

> As far as the debators go.....well I'll just say this, With this breed of dog, it is not the type you want to get from a shelter without knowing the lineage or history of the dog.


As the founder/director of a pit bull rescue (www.ebbrrfl.org) AND the owner of a rescued pit bull (as a 2-3 yr old adult) that is now a certified therapy dog through Therapy Dogs International, I find this statement incredibly disheartening. Thousands of rescued pit bulls are placed in loving homes every year by reputable pit bull rescues around the country with no ill effects. I understand you had problems with one you adopted, but you can have those same problems with ANY breed from a shelter. Yes, you rarely get to know the dogs history, but with an adult dog, what you see is what you get. Any trainer or behaviorist worth their salt would be able to do a proper temperament test on the dog and base the dogs adoptability accordingly. If you don't want to adopt from a shelter, fine, that's your decision. But how about a private, breed specific rescue? Most of the time, these rescues (such as my own) keep the dogs in foster homes. The dogs are treated like members of the family, not kept in kennels and get no training or attention. As well, a reputable rescue will not accept a dog without first having him/her professionally evaluated. With the millions of pit bulls in shelters, reputable rescues do their best to only accept the absolute best dogs into their program. There's no reason to take in a pit bull with a known bite history, or one that's extremely fearful of kids that could possibly turn into a fear biter. I have rescued & adopted out over 100 pit bulls in the last 5+ years, and not one...not a single one...has been anything less than a perfect breed ambassador. None of my rescues have ever shown any aggression towards a person, ever. 

Anyway, I have completely gone off on the original topic. I just wanted to explain that just because a pit bull has ended up in a shelter/rescue, does not make it a bad dog and not worthy of a loving home. If that WERE true, this dog would be dead. He also would not be able to bring joy to children in elementary schools that we visit for the "Paws To Read" program. Magnum was an adult pit bull when he landed a spot at a high kill shelter in Orlando, FL. All I knew of his past was that his previous owners let him loose in a PetSmart. 





To the OP, I too hope that this litter is the last for your dog. No matter the circumstances, there's no place for more pit bull puppies in this world that aren't from health tested (hips, elbows, cardiac certified, OFA'd, PennHip, etc...) and from conformation champions. There's no reason in this day and age to breed "pet" pit bulls. There's just too darn many dying in shelters. Why create more? Sorry I don't share the enthusiasm of new pit bull puppies. Try rescuing litter after litter after unwanted litter of pit bulls from shelters...I'm sure you'd feel the same.

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_catawhat75_ (05-31-2009),_jglass38_ (05-31-2009),Repfanaticlady28 (12-28-2009)

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