# Site General > General Herp >  Don't use Eco Earth Loose coconut fiber substrate.

## ed4281

I just had a horrible experience with this bedding, my snake struck at her mouse, missed and got a horrible mouth full of this stuff and couldnt work it out. She literally chocked on the stuff it was stuck like paste to the bottom and top of her mouth and completely clogged her glottis. I will never use this again. 
Any other ideas what to use in a glass aquarium that looks good and holds in humidity.

She's doing fine now although a little pissed about the mouth rinsing but she went back in ate the mouse amazingly enough.

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CaptainKillua (12-13-2017)

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## steveboos

Yeah hence why most people on here recommend using aspen or Repti Bark. Repti bark will keep your humidity high and the pieces are big enough that your snake can't ingest it and get impacted.

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## iCandiBallPythons

I don't like loose substrate at all.

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## bearhart

I've switched to coconut fiber recently since I can get it in large amounts cheap.  What you said happens occasionally but I don't think its really a serious situation.  I've had similar situations with other bedding.  For example, I used to use a fir/sphagnum bedding.  It was expensive but I had good results.  Due to its rougher texture I never had the "mouthfuls of dirt" scenarios like I see every so often w/ coconut.  But...one time my BP missed and hit a little piece of fir bark and got it nailed down on his lower front teeth.  This sucker was not coming out with the standard mouth-rubbing routine.  My snake was so pissed it worked on it for a good half-hour before giving in and consuming the mouse with a dirty mouth.  In the end, I had to forcibly remove the piece of bark.

My theory along these lines is that snakes eat off of dirt and twigs in the wild and therefore are equipped to handle the occasional mouthful of substrate.  Of course, you want your pet to reap some benefits from captivity but it is important to remember what they are built for. I'm not flaming you for switching to another substrate. I've considered it myself for this very reason. But, I think the finely ground nature of coconut fiber probably makes it a low compaction risk. And, coconut fiber has some excellent properties such as moisture retention and bacteria resistance.  In addition, it packs nicely which I like.  Some beddings allow the snake to slowly burrow down towards the heat source under its hide which makes tricker to safely heat the cage.

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Bennie1986 (06-05-2017),CaptainKillua (12-13-2017),Gio (08-11-2016),_zackw419_ (01-24-2010)

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## joepythons

> Yeah hence why most people on here recommend using aspen or Repti Bark. Repti bark will keep your humidity high and the pieces are big enough that your snake can't ingest it and get impacted.


I know someone that lost his albino burm to that repti-bark crap  :Sad: .I used old newspapers for all my snakes  :Wink: .If they get bored maybe they can learn to read  :Razz:

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_BWB_ (03-16-2015),_Lizardlicks_ (03-16-2015),Monty44 (01-25-2017),tj4x4fun (08-31-2014)

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## bearhart

LOL

But then you have to worry about them starting to ask difficult questions...

 :Smile:

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_BWB_ (03-16-2015),lyz.jones25 (12-22-2016),tj4x4fun (08-31-2014)

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## joepythons

> LOL
> 
> But then you have to worry about them starting to ask difficult questions...


Maybe but you will know if they are unhappy about anything  :ROFL:

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## bearhart

Seriously, though, this raises a good question for me.  I've always been a bit hazy on exactly how compaction occurs.    When I first heard of it, it was this kind of spooky thing that might as well have been "kooties".  After some more reading and experience with snakes, I've reasoned that they must have to consume some significant amount of non-digestable material and attain some sort of "critical mass" to become dangerously blocked up.

what I'm still not sure of is about how much material that is and whether or not it is cumulative.  I would tend to think that, for compaction to occur, the snake would have to consume some large amount of bedding in one meal.  My reasoning is that, if the amount is too small to create a blockage, it will be passed through even if it is non-digestable.  What is scarier to me is that thought that perhaps compaction occurs as a buildiup. 

Can anybody shed more light on this?

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Monty44 (04-11-2017)

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## Chocolate Muffin's

I love coco mulch, I personally think its heaven sent. I avoid the whole situation you described by usually using a feeding bin for mealtime. I just have paper towels for that. 

I would hate for you to blast coco mulch just because of this one incident.Its greats stuff, IMHO. There are lots of us who like it, and if you feed outside of their enclousre you won't have this issue, although I recognize this may not be something you do :Smile:

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DooLittle (01-28-2012),_gardenfiend138_ (02-13-2011),lyz.jones25 (12-22-2016),_Mr. Misha_ (12-29-2015),Nugzdjn (03-14-2018)

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## joepythons

> Seriously, though, this raises a good question for me.  I've always been a bit hazy on exactly how compaction occurs.    When I first heard of it, it was this kind of spooky thing that might as well have been "kooties".  After some more reading and experience with snakes, I've reasoned that they must have to consume some significant amount of non-digestable material and attain some sort of "critical mass" to become dangerously blocked up.
> 
> what I'm still not sure of is about how much material that is and whether or not it is cumulative.  I would tend to think that, for compaction to occur, the snake would have to consume some large amount of bedding in one meal.  My reasoning is that, if the amount is too small to create a blockage, it will be passed through even if it is non-digestable.  What is scarier to me is that thought that perhaps compaction occurs as a buildiup. 
> 
> Can anybody shed more light on this?


Well with the repti-bark it took one piece caught in the throat and it killed the snake before they realized something was wrong  :Sad: .So its not always the amount that is fatal.

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## bearhart

To kill quickly, the peice would have had to have blocked the airway.  Even for a large 10' snake, that opening is quite small.  I would think that either it was some sort of freak accident OR the snake had so much bedding packed in its mouth that it somehow was forced to inhale solid dirt.  Bizarre story.

My biggest beef with paper is that you can't really spot-clean it and anything like a large uriniation over water-dsh overflow creates an unhealthy mess.  On the other hand, with an inch of coco mulch your snake could completely unload itself and then go and tip over its water dish and still find a nice dry place to coil up.

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lyz.jones25 (12-22-2016)

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## joepythons

> To kill quickly, the peice would have had to have blocked the airway.  Even for a large 10' snake, that opening is quite small.  I would think that either it was some sort of freak accident OR the snake had so much bedding packed in its mouth that it somehow was forced to inhale solid dirt.  Bizarre story.
> 
> My biggest beef with paper is that you can't really spot-clean it and anything like a large uriniation over water-dsh overflow creates an unhealthy mess.  On the other hand, with an inch of coco mulch your snake could completely unload itself and then go and tip over its water dish and still find a nice dry place to coil up.


Yes it was lodged directly in the airway.The only thing they could figure out was it must have stuck to her prey items fur and was swallowed with it.

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## BPelizabeth

We use Eco Earth and have had them strike and get a mouthful quite often.  We have had to pick hold the snake and pick it out....they love it....NOT.  Anyways....what we have done now and it seems to work is prior to feeding we put down papertowels and put the snakes on the paper towels prior to feeding.  So far ...this has worked out great.  I have to note though...I cannot wait to get my rack so I can use newspaper or paper towels.

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_ed4281_ (01-24-2010),lyz.jones25 (12-22-2016)

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## PitOnTheProwl

I know this is an old post but, to me, it seems that everyone that is having problems with their substrate is during feeding. I feed in different tanks than they are housed in. I have one tank that I cannot get the humidity to over 30%!!! I am thinking of trying reptibark? I have a huge water dish, UTH, 15w light and aspen bedding. Its a 20 long by the way. All the tanks are in the same room and on the same stand. This ONE is throwing me for a loop though.
Also, the top 3/4 or so is foiled. I can mist and it will go up to 45 to 50% for about an hour or so then start falling again.

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## sookieball

i'll say that i have a 16oogram ball and i have kept her in eco earth for a year. she does get a mouth full or very little sometimes. 
but read the label,
 its 100% degestable. 
odor absorbent and breaks down overseen waste. 
its reusable(if you know how to clean it) 
and 100% safe for any reptile. and trust me i've seen them with a mouth full and they have a hard time getting it down. yes.

but think in the wild, how many times do you thing the get dirt in their mouth? 
vs big chunks of repti bark, aspen, ect.... 

i say its the best stuff for glass tanks. if you put a peice of foam board on top with a cut out for the heat bulb (i use both a UTH and heat bulb) the humidity stays and heats the ambient perfectly. 

just my 2cents.

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lyz.jones25 (12-22-2016),PitOnTheProwl (12-13-2010)

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## Zoe

Just playin Devil's advocate, here...




> its 100% digestible.


The issue isn't that it's not digestible, it's that a mouthful of it can, in rare cases, be harmful. For example, if it gets in the snake's mouth and festers, an infection could develop.




> but think in the wild, how many times do you thing the get dirt in their mouth?


True, but in the wild they usually are not on loose substrate; rather, they are on plants, branches, and hard packed dirt.  Additionally, the prey they consume would not usually be wet and therefore various debris would not stick as easily.

That said, I like coconut fibre.  It is a renewable resource, resistant to bacteria and mold, but I find it needs to be kept damp. If you let it dry out, it definitely does start sticking to things.

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## sookieball

> Just playin Devil's advocate, here...
> 
> 
> 
> The issue isn't that it's not digestible, it's that a mouthful of it can, in rare cases, be harmful. For example, if it gets in the snake's mouth and festers, an infection could develop.
> 
> 
> 
> True, but in the wild they usually are not on loose substrate; rather, they are on plants, branches, and hard packed dirt.  Additionally, the prey they consume would not usually be wet and therefore various debris would not stick as easily.
> ...


in rare cases maybe, but would you rather be standing there picking chips of wood outta their mouth while they down the rat or let them eat in peace?
ive tried all the other substrates and none are less of a worry than ecoearth. 

oh and i let mine get pretty dry. and the humidity is still at 70%

and wait why would the rat/mouse be wet when feeding? mine are always dry. 
with the exception of drool from my snakes. 

for the most part theres always very little EE in my lill ones mouth from the strike not dragging in the prey, 

but to each their own

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## Zoe

> in rare cases maybe, but would you rather be standing there picking chips of wood outta their mouth while they down the rat or let them eat in peace?
> ive tried all the other substrates and none are less of a worry than ecoearth.


I think you might have missed my point... Did you miss the part where I said I was playing devil's advocate and that I do like (and use) coconut mulch?  :Smile:   IMO it's one of the best substrates but it's not 100% foolproof (nothing seems to be when you hear about snakes eating entire pieces of paper towel) and I wanted to clear up some of your misconceptions about the issues surrounding it.

Incidentally, I have had a snake get it in his "cheeks". Lemme tell ya, getting that out of a GTP's mouth is no picnic! Luckily I noticed right away, and he is pretty tame, so it was quick work.  It was because the substrate was dry... which is why I recommend keeping it somewhat damp.  When it gets dry it flies around and sticks to everything.




> and wait why would the rat/mouse be wet when feeding? mine are always dry. 
> with the exception of drool from my snakes.


Lots of people thaw their rodents directly in warm water... I do.  I pat them dry in paper towel and I don't feed directly on the substrate but if you did some could stick to it. Again, it's usually not a serious issue, but it _can_ happen and there is no harm in being aware of it and taking steps to avoid any potential problems.

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Dangernoodel (12-02-2016)

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## Dundee

I always lay something down in the tank over the coco fiber before i feed my snake to avoid getting it in there mouth.

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## dembonez

cypress mulch has worked wonders for me!

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## kitedemon

I also use coc coir I love it and it is very very cheap. I used cyprus and aspen and mixes of coc and wood chips in the past but it is much more upsetting to watch your snake try to eat wood splinters than coco coir that is fine. I use a plastic pad to feed on but they always seem to drag it off into the coco and eat some I have yet to have a problem I can see that in a freek accident it could block an airway but then again so can aspen or cyprus. I personally like not taking a tree that is important to the everglades eco system and cutting to down to grind to muclch. Not a by product of something else just mulch. Melaleuca mulch at least is a better option and has about the same properties.

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## Zayra

Weve just started using loose coco fibre with one of our snaes and it seems like an absolute pain in the.. you know.

From what I can see it looks like she already has a bunch stuck to the front top of her mouth..
I really dont know what to do because we just spend the past hour setting it all up again. Since, she has been constantly yawning, and dipping her face into the water then back into the substrate. 

Any suggestions..?

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## PrettyInInk87

:Smile:  As stated by others, I use a seperate feeding container for that reason alone... I use both Coconut Husk Fiber and Repti Bark for all of my snakes and creepy crawlies and have not had a problem.

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_gardenfiend138_ (02-13-2011),lyz.jones25 (12-22-2016)

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## PitOnTheProwl

> As stated by others, I use a seperate feeding container for that reason alone... I use both Coconut Husk Fiber and Repti Bark for all of my snakes and creepy crawlies and have not had a problem.


X2-3and4

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## DarrinLowe

That has no relevance to our post.. We have seen though this whole thread that we would have to be bin feeding to happily use this stuff, but this has happened through her merely being in the stuff. 

The post was because she had managed to get a bunch stuck to the top of her mouth cause neither her or us can get her eye caps off, and she keeps dunking herself to try to moisten them up. Since that we went out and bought some aspen, and decided that we will attempt to address humidity issues another way.

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## PitOnTheProwl

> That has no relevance to our post.. We have seen though this whole thread that we would have to be bin feeding to happily use this stuff, but this has happened through her merely being in the stuff. 
> 
> The post was because she had managed to get a bunch stuck to the top of her mouth cause neither her or us can get her eye caps off, and she keeps dunking herself to try to moisten them up. Since that we went out and bought some aspen, and decided that we will attempt to address humidity issues another way.


Okay now I am lost as I have re-read over and over and see no post from you on this thread that would make ANYTHING relevant to you what so ever :Confused:  :Confused: 
Stuck shed and eye caps is from lack of humidity. Coco really helps raise the humidity a ton. 
Even when my snakes are soaking, they never get any stuck in the mouth so I am at a loss on this

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## kitedemon

Mine have been on it for almost a year yes they eat it sometimes and will miss every now and again will get a mouthful of the coco coir they seem to swallow and pass it with no problems. I have not had any shed problems either. I have had to pull a chunk of cyprus out of a the mouth of one of mine after a whole night of him trying to get it out on his own. I'll not switch back to wood chips of any sort.

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## LizardPants

Bearheart and Chocolate Muffin's hit the nail on the head.  

I've used coconut husks of various brands for years with no problems.  I use it because it retains moisture very well, it's not dusty, and it is not in large chunks.  I used it as substrate for a JCP, and I use it in moist hides for my leos.  
However this is the first time that I have heard of coconut husk used for ball pythons.  Do they really need something that holds humidity that well?  With all reptiles I'm more in favor of the KISS approach with newspaper or paper towels, unless they have particularly high humidity requirements.

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## Dragoon

the coco husk has its uses as long as there is no food on it (i have seen a number of people loose crested geckos to the stuff while eating crickets).  food dishes or fed in a different cage is necessary in my opinion.  it is still a useful product in the right cases

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## LizardPants

It obviously has it's uses, but with balls _really_?

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## BPelizabeth

Wow old thread revived.   :Very Happy:   I looked back on my post.....just to let you know now I house all my snakes in bins except for a milk snake.  I can tell you we have since switched over to paper towels and I LOVE IT!!!  So super clean and easy to throw out...disenfect the aq. or the bin and lay down more.  When you see your snake go blue or a pink belly you can add a damp washcloth over the warm hide.  This should take care of all of your shedding problems.  Works like a charm.

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## PitOnTheProwl

> However this is the first time that I have heard of coconut husk used for ball pythons.  Do they really need something that holds humidity that well?





> It obviously has it's uses, but with balls _really_?


You need a substrate that holds a lot of humidity if you have your balls in tanks. I am not fond of racks at all even though if/when I start breeding I will prolly need to get a juvi rack. LOL

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Nugzdjn (03-14-2018)

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## Skittles1101

This is why I feed mine in a separate tank..with newspaper....to avoid this AND to avoid being mistaken for food lol I actually love the Eco Earth coconut substrate. It does wonders for my humidity.

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## Jeremy Browning

> I've switched to coconut fiber recently since I can get it in large amounts cheap.  What you said happens occasionally but I don't think its really a serious situation.  I've had similar situations with other bedding.  For example, I used to use a fir/sphagnum bedding.  It was expensive but I had good results.  Due to its rougher texture I never had the "mouthfuls of dirt" scenarios like I see every so often w/ coconut.  But...one time my BP missed and hit a little piece of fir bark and got it nailed down on his lower front teeth.  This sucker was not coming out with the standard mouth-rubbing routine.  My snake was so pissed it worked on it for a good half-hour before giving in and consuming the mouse with a dirty mouth.  In the end, I had to forcibly remove the piece of bark.
> 
> But the said thing is the mothful of dirt and impaction do happen as a matter of a fact one of my many corn snakes died of impaction from this. R.I.P. eetwidomalah
> My theory along these lines is that snakes eat off of dirt and twigs in the wild and therefore are equipped to handle the occasional mouthful of substrate.  Of course, you want your pet to reap some benefits from captivity but it is important to remember what they are built for. I'm not flaming you for switching to another substrate. I've considered it myself for this very reason. But, I think the finely ground nature of coconut fiber probably makes it a low compaction risk. And, coconut fiber has some excellent properties such as moisture retention and bacteria resistance.  In addition, it packs nicely which I like.  Some beddings allow the snake to slowly burrow down towards the heat source under its hide which makes tricker to safely heat the cage.

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## purplemuffin

:Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  Of course, in the wild they also deal with parasites, predators, and disease in the wild, but we try to avoid adding that into our captive snakes, lol! 

I've used and still use particle substrate(Aspen) with one of my snakes, though as soon as this last batch has run it's course we are switching to newspaper. It's just easier. Our other two snakes are on it, and if they 'go' we just replace that newspaper and put in a clean one. No mess, no fuss, no worrying about it getting bad and replacing it, cause you just replace it anyway. And I don't like feeding on substrate like that either. I feel that if the animal's life is in my hands--which, as a pet, it is-- I want to give it the safest life possible, so if anything DOES go wrong, I don't have to worry about other possibilities like ingesting substrate adding to the equation! So I feed our Maru outside her tank. Sure she'd be most likely fine eating on substrate, but you know, there is always that chance. I don't want the one freak accident to be my snake if all it takes for me to avoid it is to put it on paper. Plus, I'm sure it's unpleasant for the snake, LOL! How do you like crud in your food?

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PitOnTheProwl (02-24-2011)

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## PitOnTheProwl

> How do you like crud in your food?


LOL ................ DONT watch the sanitation video my wife had to watch when she was in school getting her degree in culinary arts :Surprised:  You will never want to go out to eat AGAIN...............took 6 months before I could eat chicken again :Sad:

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## RottsTottsnRepts

I came upon this thread because our BP currently has a mouthful of coconut fiber from rooting during her shed. Can I pick her up to get it out or should I wait until after her shed? She doesn't look too happy... but then again, I guess I can relate to the "peeling" stage of good old California sunburns, so NOT enjoyable!! LOL 

But seriously, is it normal for them to get a mouthful of substrate during a shed??   ~Thanks!!

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## mainbutter

Cypress mulch is my go-to bedding for rainbow boas, which I find thrive with higher humidity.

edit: just realized, the original post is from 2010... lol

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## bubblz

_I've used Eco Earth for almost 5yrs now with my snakes and tegus and haven't had any issues. It's not digestible but it's small enough to pass through the digestive system with out any issues. It mixes in with the poop so it's harder to see it. 

Any time wet touches dry somethings going to stick, especially with something that's absorbent. Eco Earth is meant to be kept moist. The only time I've seen clumps of it sticking to any of my reps is when they have been in their water and the substrate is too dry.

How low or at what level do you hold the feeder if at all, for the snake to miss and get a mouth full of Eco Earth? I don't lay feeders on the substrate I dangle it until they strike. By the time it's on the substrate it's pretty well covered. Even when they drop it to re position, it's not covered in substrate when they eat it.

@RottsTottsnRepts you can restrain her and try and get it out or let her soak for a bit_

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## Missy King

why don't you just not feed in the enclosure??? lol

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## babygirl

*Thank you everyone!*
My Boyfriend just got a Ball Python (Cherry) and wanted a more natural looking substrate for her, he found it hard to get facts and not a bias opinion about it but the snake "expert" at the pet store told him the only type you can ever be use for pythons is Aspen, I found this hard to believe so I started searching for options and found this site and posts.

It seams to me there are lots of options for substrate, and it comes down to personal choice and for you to take what ever precautions you can *(just like any other pet)* so we will try out different types until we find what works best for our selves. Thanks again

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## DooLittle

We use Eco earth.  I love it and have never had any problems.  Great for humidity, looks nice.  Most of my snakes eat in seperate tubs, but the ones that don't have never had a problem with getting any in their mouth.  As others have said, I am sure they consume things in the wild when feeding.  I would not worry about using it.  It's great stuff.

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## 1nf3ct1ous

Coconut fiber is not that bad actually. Try feeding your snake outside of her cage. I mix 25% coconut fiber with 75% cypress mulch. The combo holds humidity really well and so far I haven't had any issues with it.

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## 1nf3ct1ous

Orchid bark is what a friend of mine uses. Cypress mulch isn't bad either.

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## Oaky Doaky

I use eco earth bricks (helps humidity) when ever I feed (F/T, or live to my Bela aka my bp) I put paper towel down over the area (opposite her hide) and put her on it and dangle the mouse in front of her. I have done this since one time she struck it and dragged a wet mouse on the substrate and ate bedding. Works perfectly then when she moves I remove the paper towel.
quick and easy plus she don't eat substrate. Good Luck

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## DavesChillaxin

I just don't feed my ball pythons in their living enclosure, period. I.e living enclosure has loose substrate.

I read on Yahoo answers someone said not to do this? I guess their reason is they confuse you for food when you do this. I don't get that statement. If that's the case then they would every time you take them out to handle regardless. If they strike you when you take them out to feed, then you've probably either A.) waited to long and they're hungry or B.) Have handled the mouse before relocating your BP. BPs have excellent taste/smell. For me it only makes sense to take advantage of that. Especially for a picky eater. Which implies, find what works and stick with it. Choose a second enclosure exclusively for feeding. It keeps the smell of dead mouse there, and not in their enclosure. Drop them in the box, they smell the food, and know it's feeding time. Almost like a switch. Just remember, begin de-frostingm when it's about time move the snake, then take the mouse out of the packaging. Don't handle the mouse first. Like I said they will smell it and think your hand is a tasty mouse.

I have had excellent luck this way, and have only been bitten by my oldest snake 3 times in 5 years, and my two youngest never bitten yet.

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_O'Mathghamhna_ (01-28-2016)

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## Eric Alan

> I just don't feed my ball pythons in their living enclosure, period. I.e living enclosure has loose substrate.
> 
> I read on Yahoo answers someone said not to do this? I guess their reason is they confuse you for food when you do this. I don't get that statement. If that's the case then they would every time you take them out to handle regardless. If they strike you when you take them out to feed, then you've probably either A.) waited to long and they're hungry or B.) Have handled the mouse before relocating your BP. BPs have excellent taste/smell. For me it only makes sense to take advantage of that. Especially for a picky eater. Which implies, find what works and stick with it. Choose a second enclosure exclusively for feeding. It keeps the smell of dead mouse there, and not in their enclosure. Drop them in the box, they smell the food, and know it's feeding time. Almost like a switch. Just remember, begin de-frostingm when it's about time move the snake, then take the mouse out of the packaging. Don't handle the mouse first. Like I said they will smell it and think your hand is a tasty mouse.
> 
> I have had excellent luck this way, and have only been bitten by my oldest snake 3 times in 5 years, and my two youngest never bitten yet.


This topic has been covered many times. Not to mention that this thread is pretty dang old (was started over 5 years ago). Click this link --> http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...=1#post2301460 <-- for a MUCH better discussion on this topic than Yahoo Answers could ever dream of providing.

The spoiler alert is that there aren't any good reasons to feed a ball python in a separate enclosure if you actually take time to think about it.

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Stewart_Reptiles (03-22-2015)

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## Boomerang

> This topic has been covered many times. Not to mention that this thread is pretty dang old (was started over 5 years ago). Click this link --> http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...=1#post2301460 <-- for a MUCH better discussion on this topic than Yahoo Answers could ever dream of providing.
> 
> The spoiler alert is that there aren't any good reasons to feed a ball python in a separate enclosure if you actually take time to think about it.


Except to keep them from swallowing substrate.
I used Aspen and it refused to hold any humidity.  Added a bunch of moss and the entire house smelled like wet moss.  Got rid of them both and bought Zilla Jungle Mix.  Looks good, holds humidity very well.  I', p[leased with it.  And it doesn't smell!

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## Eric Alan

> Except to keep them from swallowing substrate.


I don't think you read the thread I linked to...

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## Sauzo

Just use a paper plate or newspaper to feed on then. Paper towels is not good to feed on. And needing to feed in a separate bin is an old wivestale that really only applied to large constrictors.

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## gameonpython

I've tried most substrates. coco fiber is sticky and messy. Too much of a hassle. Repti bark is good, except it holds onto smell. It's pretty gross when you open up the cage and all you smell is snake piss. Paper towel works alright, but it can be a bit of a hassle when the snake goes to the bathroom. It spreads everywhere, resulting in you having to do a complete cage clean. Cypress mulch is by far my favorite. It looks good, has a great natural smell, and holds humidity amazing. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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## AZBennett

We use an inch layer of Coconut Fiber and over that a layer of Cypress. After a couple of different trial and error runs for our snakes we settled on this formula. We did a 50/50 mix of the two and it really wasn't much different than straight up Coconut. Layering the substrate seems to allow for a slower release/burn off of the humidity in the Coconut. Plus we have one snake that spends large amounts of time "playing", for lack of a better word, in the Cypress. We do not feed them in their enclosures, rather we have several Sterilite tubs that we use for feeding. Though all of our snakes are snakes that we handle regularly and are used to being moved and touched. They also now know when they are set in the tub that it is time to feed, which is interesting to watch their behavior change. Anway, I know I am a relative newb, but we have been experimenting with substrates now since we got our first snake, trying to come up with the ideal one mostly due to Arizona's complete lack of humidity. The layered system works best so far.

Regards,
Paul

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## crazykent

*i am new here what is this posting of what you have ? 

6.5.15 Animals
1.2 Pomeranian's
0.1.15 Tropical Fish
2.2 Snakes:
0.1 2009 100% Het Piebald
0.1 Normal
1.0 Green Tree Python
1.0 Brazilian Rainbow Boa*

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## AZBennett

> *i am new here what is this posting of what you have ? 
> 
> 6.5.15 Animals
> 1.2 Pomeranian's
> 0.1.15 Tropical Fish
> 2.2 Snakes:
> 0.1 2009 100% Het Piebald
> 0.1 Normal
> 1.0 Green Tree Python
> 1.0 Brazilian Rainbow Boa*



A quick and down and dirty primer is as follows.

The first number to the left of the decimals designates a Male, the middle number a Female, the far right number an unknown gender. The name to the far right is the type of animal. Therefore, this person has 1 male and two female Pomeranians, 1 female and 15 unknown gender tropical fish, 1 female Het Piebald, 1 female normal, 1 male GTP and 1 male Brazilian Rainbow Boa.

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EMT524 (10-23-2015)

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## BP2015

For those who own a ball python like me: Many of the impaction problems can be avoided or even preventive by following one clear rule: Don't Feed your snake in it's enclosure!! When you feed your snake you should feed it in a separate feeding container such as a box or Plastic tub and for Christ's sake use tongs. Why are you feeding your snake in the enclosure in the first place? For one by doing this every time you open the cage your BP is going thinks it's feeding time and become CAGE AGGRESSIVE. :Snake:

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## Gio

> For those who own a ball python like me: Many of the impaction problems can be avoided or even preventive by following one clear rule: Don't Feed your snake in it's enclosure!! When you feed your snake you should feed it in a separate feeding container such as a box or Plastic tub and for Christ's sake use tongs. Why are you feeding your snake in the enclosure in the first place? For one by doing this every time you open the cage your BP is going thinks it's feeding time and become CAGE AGGRESSIVE.


Total BS myth on the "Aggressive" bit.

You think a snake knows if you are going to take it out and feed it VS take it out to handle it?  

There is NO cage aggression that truly comes from feeding in the enclosure.

Tell me how many people with giant pythons, especially several of them use a "feeding tank". That would take 2,3 maybe even 4 people all day.

Also, tell me how many people who work with HOTs take their snakes out when its time to feed? Very, very risky.

This OLD *myth* keeps getting regurgitated by people who watch kids feed royal pythons on YouTube or don't understand behavior.

Your snake responds to smell, heat and movement. If the snake is hungry enough and you show a heat signature and open a cage and there is even the hint of prey in the air you are getting bitten. Even when you hook train, if the right set of ingredients are in place, be careful. Reason #101 to wash your hands and don't handle prey before you handle a snake.

Retic owners often open their cages with a hook because retics are almost always ready to "rock the food" due to a quick metabolism and always being ready to eat. They will fly out of their cages as soon as the door opens. That is not aggression. It is a behavior that has evolved over millions of years. Ambush, opportunistic feeding, is their way of life.

They are not going to have an inner dialog and think,,,, "Am I being moved to my feeding tank, or taken out to play?"

Then they sit nicely and wait for food in a feed tank? Explain how the feed tank does not cause so called aggression.

Once a hungry snake eats, you should not handle it again. Some do not come out of feeding mode for several hours or even days.

If you are worried about substrate ingestion, which can also happen with paper towels, use corrugated liners. 

In reality it is a rare occurrence and a little debris can be broken down by large amounts of very powerful stomach acids.

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Annageckos (12-30-2015),blbsnakes (12-30-2015),_Dave Green_ (12-29-2015),_EL-Ziggy_ (12-30-2015),_Montypython696_ (12-30-2015),PitOnTheProwl (12-29-2015),_Reinz_ (12-30-2015),_wwmjkd_ (12-30-2015)

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## PitOnTheProwl

> For those who own a ball python like me: Many of the impaction problems can be avoided or even preventive by following one clear rule: Don't Feed your snake in it's enclosure!! When you feed your snake you should feed it in a separate feeding container such as a box or Plastic tub and for Christ's sake use tongs. Why are you feeding your snake in the enclosure in the first place? For one by doing this every time you open the cage your BP is going thinks it's feeding time and become CAGE AGGRESSIVE.


Please enlighten me on either of these WRONG thoughts?
There is plenty of dirt, leaves and other items in nature that they swallow in the wild.
Aggression on feeding in their enclosure, I have not had any problems.

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Gio (12-29-2015)

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## Smitty33

> For those who own a ball python like me: Many of the impaction problems can be avoided or even preventive by following one clear rule: Don't Feed your snake in it's enclosure!! When you feed your snake you should feed it in a separate feeding container such as a box or Plastic tub and for Christ's sake use tongs. Why are you feeding your snake in the enclosure in the first place? For one by doing this every time you open the cage your BP is going thinks it's feeding time and become CAGE AGGRESSIVE.


          With 2 posts I sense the troll is strong in this one.

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## Jhill001

> Please enlighten me on either of these WRONG thoughts?
> There is plenty of dirt, leaves and other items in nature that they swallow in the wild.
> Aggression on feeding in their enclosure, I have not had any problems.


I keep rat snakes (baird's a mostly docile species) and haven't noticed any difference when I fed them in separate container or their regular enclosure.

The biggest thing that triggers any inclination to bite with a smaller species snake is wiggling fingers around like how your mouse might dangle. I imagine if you wiggle your fingers in front of a ball python it'd be more likely to try and bite the person trying to pick it up than if you just went in and grabbed it. 

I used Eco Earth for them when they were really small (I now use a mix of eco earth and Cyprus mulch) and they occasionally got it in their mouth but not from striking. Seeing them squirm like idiots after getting it in their mouth prompted me to just make sure I spent extra time drying the FT mouse and offering the prey in such a way that it lessens the potential for substrate ingestion IE on top of the log and not just dropping it into the substrate.

Now that I have the mixture of mulch and eco earth the mulch seems to pack the eco earth down and prevent excess dust and small particles from getting stuck to the mouse. I had previously tried sand mixed with eco earth but have found that the sand is heavier and just cakes to the bottom of the enclosure. I may try to combine eco earth, Cyprus mulch and regular old dirt with sand to try and get a good mix that might be the foundation of a bio-active type substrate.

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## Reinz

BP2015 probably read it in the PetCo brochure,  so ( :Sarcasm Alert:  ) it MUST be true!

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## O'Mathghamhna

So I know this is a VERRRRY old thread... But I just wanted to bend y'alls ears for a bit on this topic.

I see many people talk about how in the wild, snakes would be exposed to dirt, debris, leaves, etc (loose substrate) so it's not a problem to feed them on these substrates. And this is a fine point. My question is, since in the wild our snakes are also exposed to predators, changing climates, and many other things they don't necessarily need in captivity, why also expose them to something that may potentially irritate them? Does that make sense? I feed my snakes in separate Sterilite containers because there's no chance of getting any substrate in the way of their meal, and they are very easy to clean. I choose to use either Aspen or Dri-Dek with newspaper underneath because I worry about the tiny particulates of coco husk or dirt getting stuck in the labial pits, possibly leading to poor shed or infection. Not to mention getting in the snake's mouth.

Also, thanks to everyone for your input over the years of this thread, and thanks for humoring me on this post!

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## gameonpython

> So I know this is a VERRRRY old thread... But I just wanted to bend y'alls ears for a bit on this topic.
> 
> I see many people talk about how in the wild, snakes would be exposed to dirt, debris, leaves, etc (loose substrate) so it's not a problem to feed them on these substrates. And this is a fine point. My question is, since in the wild our snakes are also exposed to predators, changing climates, and many other things they don't necessarily need in captivity, why also expose them to something that may potentially irritate them? Does that make sense? I feed my snakes in separate Sterilite containers because there's no chance of getting any substrate in the way of their meal, and they are very easy to clean. I choose to use either Aspen or Dri-Dek with newspaper underneath because I worry about the tiny particulates of coco husk or dirt getting stuck in the labial pits, possibly leading to poor shed or infection. Not to mention getting in the snake's mouth.
> 
> Also, thanks to everyone for your input over the years of this thread, and thanks for humoring me on this post!


I don't think it's a problem if they eat a bit of substrate accidentally. They can digest bones and fur so I'm sure a tiny piece of bark or some coco fiber is no problem. However, I definitely agree that the fine particles of coco fiber would irritates snakes skin. I've always worried that it would get stuck in between their scales!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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## LJR

I agree with the second half of what your saying, but on your first point, you cannot always trust the label of these products. Calci-Sand is marketed as safe and digestible, but there are plenty of horror stories proving that to not be the case if you decide to search. That being said, I really don't think that a mouthful of coconut one in a while is doing to do much harm, though it would probably be best to try and avoid it

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