# Site General > General Herp > Herp Broadcast >  Cat eating lizards invading Florida.....

## CrystalRose

Here we go again.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/8-foot...180700956.html

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## Daigga

I just find it amusing how all these articles go on and on about large carnivorous reptiles as though Florida didn't already have a native alligator population. Obviously different, but a giant reptile capable of eating your children and pets isn't exactly new to Florida.

I'm starting to wonder if maybe certain legislation is needed not to stop people from owning exotics in Florida, but to ensure that the wrong sort of people don't get a hold of them. I think everyone can agree that responsible owners don't release their pets into the wild, and it's certainly irresponsible owners causing a headache for the rest of us. Still, people buy animals like Nile monitors not realizing the kind of care that they require (a huge custom enclosure and a staggering feeding bill) and somehow come to the conclusion that releasing it is the best option.

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Citrus (04-11-2015),_CrystalRose_ (04-11-2015)

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## alucard0822

> I just find it amusing how all these articles go on and on about large carnivorous reptiles as though Florida didn't already have a native alligator population. Obviously different, but a giant reptile capable of eating your children and pets isn't exactly new to Florida.
> 
> I'm starting to wonder if maybe certain legislation is needed not to stop people from owning exotics in Florida, but to ensure that the wrong sort of people don't get a hold of them. I think everyone can agree that responsible owners don't release their pets into the wild, and it's certainly irresponsible owners causing a headache for the rest of us. Still, people buy animals like Nile monitors not realizing the kind of care that they require (a huge custom enclosure and a staggering feeding bill) and somehow come to the conclusion that releasing it is the best option.


Thing is there are already laws against releasing animals into the wild, although really not many cases of enforcement to show for them, or reputable statistics for intentional releases, mostly just urban legends or anecdotes, bass fishermen catching piranhas, alligators in sewers, cobras coming out of toilets etc.  The most credible source of invasive reptiles in the everglades (burms) was a research facility destroyed by Hurricane Andrew, along with plenty of other breeders and shops.  IMO if you look to government to regulate who can or can't have a reptile, it will end in disaster for the law abiding hobby, expand the large reptile black and greymarket, and probably a new way to rip us off for the government, the recent abusive expansion of the Lacy act is a perfect example.  

Probably best thing we can do, while growing our hobby instead of endangering it is to help out local herp rescue organizations.  If they are well funded, and new owners are aware of them, they can be critical to preventing animals from being abused, killed, released, or any number of other irresponsible things pet owners do, and can be a good source of animals for experienced keepers that are equipped to care for them.

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_CrystalRose_ (04-11-2015)

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## Daigga

> Thing is there are already laws against releasing animals into the wild, although really not many cases of enforcement to show for them, or reputable statistics for intentional releases, mostly just urban legends or anecdotes, bass fishermen catching piranhas, alligators in sewers, cobras coming out of toilets etc.  The most credible source of invasive reptiles in the everglades (burms) was a research facility destroyed by Hurricane Andrew, along with plenty of other breeders and shops.  IMO if you look to government to regulate who can or can't have a reptile, it will end in disaster for the law abiding hobby, expand the large reptile black and greymarket, and probably a new way to rip us off for the government, the recent abusive expansion of the Lacy act is a perfect example.  
> 
> Probably best thing we can do, while growing our hobby instead of endangering it is to help out local herp rescue organizations.  If they are well funded, and new owners are aware of them, they can be critical to preventing animals from being abused, killed, released, or any number of other irresponsible things pet owners do, and can be a good source of animals for experienced keepers that are equipped to care for them.


I want to believe the non native species found there way there because of natural events, but the simple fact of the matter is that there are too many examples at widely varying times to dismiss that irresponsible owners are massively at fault in these cases. Do I believe some of the burms made it to the everglades because of a destroyed facility? Of course. Do I also believe people have been releasing them despite the laws? Absolutely. 

I am not suggesting anything like the lacey act, I have always agreed that's it's stupid to punish all of us for the actions of a very few in an isolated area. However, if we as a community can't come up with a solution to the problem then of course the government will try to and we all know how that works out. Irresponsible ownership or not, these people became part of the reptile community the second they purchased the animal and it's on us to defend our community.

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alucard0822 (04-11-2015),_Bluebonnet Herp_ (04-11-2015),_CrystalRose_ (04-11-2015)

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## alucard0822

> I want to believe the non native species found there way there because of natural events, but the simple fact of the matter is that there are too many examples at widely varying times to dismiss that irresponsible owners are massively at fault in these cases. Do I believe some of the burms made it to the everglades because of a destroyed facility? Of course. Do I also believe people have been releasing them despite the laws? Absolutely. 
> 
> I am not suggesting anything like the lacey act, I have always agreed that's it's stupid to punish all of us for the actions of a very few in an isolated area. However, if we as a community can't come up with a solution to the problem then of course the government will try to and we all know how that works out. Irresponsible ownership or not, these people became part of the reptile community the second they purchased the animal and it's on us to defend our community.


 :Good Job:  there is a lot to be said for doing our part to educate the masses, and police our own hobby.  As posted before I think rescues and communities like this one that can educate people, or help find homes for unwanted pets are absolutely critical to keep our hobby flourishing.  I don't doubt some people release their pets into the wild, plenty of evidence that demonstrates that as a source for cats and dogs, but not so cut and dry for reptiles. 

 Most of the studies I've seen about burms point to how difficult it was to establish a breeding colony without several being released into a relatively small hospitable area.  The environment is relatively harsh in the everglades, inhospitable everywhere else, they don't migrate fast, territories are small, and compared to dogs and cats there are realtively few in captivity to be released in the first place, so the chances of finding another abandoned mate are slim.  Although there are so many conflicting and biased studies trying to grab their share of funding, it's tough to tell what is the most credible.

  The ironic thing about the "cat eating lizards" article is the "victimized" feral and "outdoor pet" cats are probably one of the most destructive invasive species in the country, but most people don't care, or worse, will lose their frickin mind if one of their outdoor "pets" gets trapped, eaten or shot while roaming around, terrorizing native birds, ripping up trash bags, and crapping all over the neighborhood, I'd rather have the lizards.

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_CrystalRose_ (04-11-2015)

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## Daigga

> The ironic thing about the "cat eating lizards" article is the "victimized" feral and "outdoor pet" cats are probably one of the most destructive invasive species in the country, but most people don't care, or worse, will lose their frickin mind if one of their outdoor "pets" gets trapped, eaten or shot while roaming around, terrorizing native birds, ripping up trash bags, and crapping all over the neighborhood, I'd rather have the lizards.


This 100%. I lived in a certain apartment complex for the period of a year, and when we first moved in there were a pair of feral female cats and maybe 3 wandering toms. My neighbor loved cats and would feed them or let them into her apartment, and by the time I moved out there were nearing two dozen cats in an quarter acre area. They multiply so fast and need so few resources to do it it would make your head spin! Oh don't get me wrong here, there are a number of trap and return programs near me, but when the cheapest you can find is 15 dollars per female out of your own pocket and suddenly there are 10 or more female cats it just isn't going to happen. Feral cats are a genuine problem across nearly the entire country and not only are they viewed as less of a threat than these reptiles, people feed them and support the environmental destruction that comes with them! It's even common practice to allow pet cats to wander freely outside. But it's the released snakes and lizards that will be destroying the native ecosystem, of course.  :Sarcasm Alert:

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alucard0822 (04-11-2015),_CrystalRose_ (04-11-2015)

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## Daniel.michelle

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great picture they got there.  This lizard is is so malnourished.  it's obviously a cat eating machine. obvious sarcasm is obvious.  But seriously, that lizard is almost beyond veterinarian care, just look at its back hip bones. You should not see those.  

There's a reason for that.  It's because that is not a good habitat for monitors.  On another report about Niles it goes on to say that "Officials believe thousands of Nile monitor lizards are loose in Florida, and they've recently begun terrorizing Palm Beach County. Since July 2014, The Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission has caught 20 Nile monitor lizards, but they've got plenty more to go."  20 to thousands is a HUGE leap that just is not true.  Maybe hundreds, maybe. But definitely NOT thousands.  Here's a link to this one. http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/the...ats/ar-AAaIHsZ

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/pa...410-story.html. ooh and there's this one.  "The lizards have been known to consume domestic cats in their habitat in Africa. In Cape Coral, site of the largest Nile monitor population in Florida, there have been UNCONFIRMED reports of monitors killing pets."

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_CrystalRose_ (04-11-2015)

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## Jhill001

Good, outdoor cats do more ecological damage than ANY reptile released into the wild. They are just behind feral hogs in terms of how much damage they cause to native species.

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## Citrus

Really though, almost nothing is native to florida. It all makes its way over here eventually. 
"The exotic pet trade has a way of introducing destructive and potentially dangerous creatures to places in which they don't belong, and Florida's sunny, warm climate makes for a perfect home for many of these invasive species"
"places in which they don't belong, and Florida's sunny, warm climate makes for a perfect home"
"Don't belong . . . Perfect home" ......choose one!



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## Citrus

> Really though, almost nothing is native to florida. It all makes its way over here eventually. 
> "The exotic pet trade has a way of introducing destructive and potentially dangerous creatures to places in which they don't belong, and Florida's sunny, warm climate makes for a perfect home for many of these invasive species"
> "places in which they don't belong, and Florida's sunny, warm climate makes for a perfect home"
> "Don't belong . . . Perfect home" ......choose one!
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Edit: just finished reading the other half of the article. OF COURSE the plan is to just shoot them, right? I mean after all it's wonderful friendly florida. Seriously though, anyone know a about capturing invasives and rehoming them? You know, if it's ok to take that approach over the more popular which involves no more work than the clean up of a dead lizard? 




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## alucard0822

> Good, outdoor cats do more ecological damage than ANY reptile released into the wild. They are just behind feral hogs in terms of how much damage they cause to native species.


Actually according to some family down there "damn Yankee retirees" are the absolute worse invasive species, also the source of many cats.  The solution is simple, if you live in the NY metro area, stay there, otherwise Adopt a Burm or monitor, feed it cats :Very Happy:

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## Bluebonnet Herp

> Actually according to some family down there "damn Yankee retirees" are the absolute worse invasive species, also the source of many cats.  The solution is simple, if you live in the NY metro area, stay there, otherwise *Adopt a Burm or monitor, feed it cats*


You know one of the main reasons why the public masses hate reptile keepers is because of sadistic statements and actions like this, right? It's one thing to understand cats are an invasive species, support spay and neuter programs, and shelter adoption programs, but to enthusiastically condone the use of live cats as feeders, supporting cat bans, or to rag on cat owners is the dumbest thing anyone can be doing right now. Do you really think we can get other pet owners to join us in our fight against these animal bans when there's reptile keepers merrily supporting the brutal slaughtering of their favorite pets?

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## Foxton

> Do you really think we can get other pet owners to join us in our fight against these animal bans when there's reptile keepers merrily supporting the brutal slaughtering of their favorite pets?


Yet that's exactly what they happily do when it concerns snakes and other reptiles.

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Daniel.michelle (04-11-2015)

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## Daniel.michelle

I'm pretty sure foxton was being sarcastic about cat feeders.   Just saying.

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## Daigga

Don't get me wrong, I love cats. It just got really old walking through a cloud of feral cat stink every time I went from my apartment to my car or vice versa. I did manage to catch one momma cat and her whole litter of kittens (this girl wasn't even a year old!) and took them into a local shelter. I wouldn't use cats or dogs as food, I'm even hesitant to consider guinea pigs as a food source, I just call it strange that organizations zero in on a group of animals that can't do a quarter the damage of a species that is totally acceptable to allow into the wild (outdoor cats) or support feral populations.

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Daniel.michelle (04-11-2015)

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## Foxton

> I'm pretty sure foxton was being sarcastic about cat feeders.   Just saying.


Obviously I would never advocate cats as feeders, they'd make absolutely terrible feeders.

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Daniel.michelle (04-11-2015)

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## Daniel.michelle

I also wanted to make another point.  I work with Nile monitors, and they do get big and nasty, but they are NOT cat hunters.  Obviously a cat would stand no chance against a Nile monitor, but a Nile monitor simply would not actively hunt cats. Obviously if it's starving its gonna.  But the fact remains that these lizards are scavengers.  

I am willing to guarantee that 90% of people who "see" a monitor eating a large mammal such as cat dog racoon possum etc. Are actually witnessing the lizard scavenging for prefilled food such as roadkill or things that have just passed away.  In they're natural habitat they scavenge almost all their food.  They are NOT going to evolve into stalking predators in florida.

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## Daniel.michelle

> I'm pretty sure foxton was being sarcastic about cat feeders. Just saying


 directed towards Bluebonnet_Herp

Sorry, I meant alucard0822, not foxton in my quote, referring to this 


> Adopt a Burm or monitor, feed it cats


 by alucard0822

So it should have been "I'm pretty sure alucard0822 was being sarcastic about cat feeders. Just saying"  directed toward Bluebonnet_Herp

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## alucard0822

> directed towards Bluebonnet_Herp
> 
> Sorry, I meant alucard0822, not foxton in my quote, referring to this  by alucard0822
> 
> So it should have been "I'm pretty sure alucard0822 was being sarcastic about cat feeders. Just saying"  directed toward Bluebonnet_Herp


Yes sarcasm, thanks for the help, figured claiming retirees from the tristate area being Florida's most dangerous invasive species made it obvious enough.  Although foxton is right, cats generally make poor feeders, well unless you cook them right and serve them on bread(joke/ALF reference)

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## Bluebonnet Herp

> I wouldn't use cats or dogs as food, I'm even hesitant to consider guinea pigs as a food source, I just call it strange that organizations zero in on a group of animals that can't do a quarter the damage of a species that is totally acceptable to allow into the wild (outdoor cats) or support feral populations.


Nothing wrong with feeding reptiles. I just would use certain animals as *live* prey, if at all, and god forbid someone publicize it. And considering the agenda of these groups, it's not surprising that they zero in on a group of animals by whatever angle they can find. They're breaking apart the pet industry piece by piece, which brings up why I criticized alucard's original joke. While sarcastic, it was in poor taste, and sarcasm doesn't travel very well over the internet. And to anyone socialized too well to cats, it doesn't help convince them to back our cause. (I will admit though that the following Alf reference was ridiculous enough not to be taken seriously. Kitten sandwiches are always funny.) Let's just be a little careful about what we post and how we word things. These aren't exactly easy times, legally speaking, especially when part of the animal rights agenda is somewhat going according to plan. They have the money and the skill to deceive and twist words, (in other words; spread propaganda) and they have successfully turned American pet owners on one another, when in contrast, we need to be standing together as our interests are more or less one in the same.

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## Citrus

Meow


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