# Lizards > Chameleons >  Need some Chameleon cage/setup advice!

## Argentra

Ok, so it's pretty firmly decided that we want to get a male veiled chameleon. I've been reading and reading, over the years as well as all of yesterday, and believe we can handle caring for one.

Now, I need some advice on caging. I've looked at the different pre-made options for screen cages and found all but the small Reptarium ($30 at LLL) to be way too expensive. The solution, to me, is to build one myself. If I did that, what materials would be best to use? What type of screen/mesh, since I know hardware cloth is too rough and I would think that the plastic mesh stuff is too weak...would window screen do? Is it alright to use wood for the frame?

For a baby/juvi, I was thinking of starting off with an 18x18x30. Is this too big for a little guy or just about right? Or, should I just get that 38g Reptarium for the small cage and build a larger one for him as an adult?

Also, for plants, we plan on using a pothos and hibiscus. Where are good places to get these that don't use pesticides?

As you can see, when it comes to a new animal I'm as bad as a newbie.  :Razz:  Any advice you guys can give is MOST welcome!

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## JimNAZ

Hello,

I've had Veiled, carpet  and Jackson chameleons so here is my take on your questions.

You will find many "styles" of caging that keepers use and all (ok most) work well. Most will have their pros & cons.
An adult Veiled (male) should be in no less than a 3'h x 2'w cage. Larger is better but it can be a challenge for space for the keeper. The most important part is the height of the cage (chams are arboreal) and good ventilation. I really love the cham cages from LLL. They are sturdy and very easy to clean, but yes they can be expensive. If you are thinking of building your own you have the luxury of designing it to fit all of your needs. A google search can find you many "how to" or designs of home built cages. 
The size of the screen you use is really based on the feeders you use and where you keep the cage. You really do not want a bunch of crickets running around after escaping from the cage  :Very Happy:  With that being said I have seen cages with vinyl window screen (works very well) to the plastic mesh you use in a garden etc. Again all can work based on your needs. 
The only problem with using wood is you will need to seal it before using. Chams in general need high humidity and that is mostly achieved by frequent misting. Untreated wood will mold up and rot fast. Don't be discouraged by this though because you can make a very nice functional and good looking cage with wood. Some people use PVC as the frame and attach some sort of netting with zip ties. You do have a few options with what you use. My advice would be to look at as many DIY cages as you can and find out the pros & cons. Then decide what works for you and go from there.
Veileds are one of the few chameleons that will actually eat the plants  so you need to be careful on what you use. Your 2 choices are great for a Veiled. I would suggest going to any nursery/Lowes/Home Depot and find the healthiest plants you can. Then take home and get rid of all the soil in the pot. Wash off the roots and replant in a pot that works for you. Careful on what potting soil you use, not only in reference to fertilizer but also how clean it is. Nothing is more of a pain than having an infestation of gnats or other tiny bugs coming out of the soil. Mild dish soap can get rid of this and you can use when you first wash the roots.
I used to have a lt of both plants and would rotate them in and out of the cages. When not in the cage I would put them near windows or outside to keep them healthy. (The lighting you use for your cage will also help the plants.)

I am excited for you! A male & female veiled were my first chams and I got them when they were around 5 months old. Males are a good choice because they are more colorful and you do not have to worry about them becoming gravid.
Anyway, I know there are others on here who have experience so you are in good hands. Post some pics when you get yours!

Jim

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## Funky#2

> Ok, so it's pretty firmly decided that we want to get a male veiled chameleon. I've been reading and reading, over the years as well as all of yesterday, and believe we can handle caring for one.
> 
> Now, I need some advice on caging. I've looked at the different pre-made options for screen cages and found all but the small Reptarium ($30 at LLL) to be way too expensive. The solution, to me, is to build one myself. If I did that, what materials would be best to use? What type of screen/mesh, since I know hardware cloth is too rough and I would think that the plastic mesh stuff is too weak...would window screen do? Is it alright to use wood for the frame?
> 
> For a baby/juvi, I was thinking of starting off with an 18x18x30. Is this too big for a little guy or just about right? Or, should I just get that 38g Reptarium for the small cage and build a larger one for him as an adult?
> 
> Also, for plants, we plan on using a pothos and hibiscus. Where are good places to get these that don't use pesticides?
> 
> As you can see, when it comes to a new animal I'm as bad as a newbie.  Any advice you guys can give is MOST welcome!


I'm not sure what you're looking to spend, but you can buy aluminum/screen enclosures that are 36" tall (or bigger) starting at $59.99

http://reptiledepot.com/reptprices.html

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## JimNAZ

I forgot to comment on your question about cage size for a young one. The biggest challenge of having a larger cage for a young cham is their ability to find food. It is usually best to start them off in a smaller cage and upgrade once they grow close to adult size. But, if you are building one and only want to build one then there are ways around this challenge. It is mostly the type of feeders you are using and ways of "containing" them in a specific location of the cage. ex: using a cup with high sides to keep small crickets in. Then just hang the cup on a branch of the plant. May not be as fun for the cham but it will work.

Hope this helps

Jim

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## Argentra

Well, the plan as of now is to use 3/4"x1.5" poplar wood for the frame of an 18x18x30 cage with window screen and a hinged door. I have a good indoor/outdoor latex based paint from Rust-Olium that is pretty much water resistant which I will use on all wood. The floor will have a thick vinyl 'rug' rather like a Softtray. 
I have a 24" Repti-Glo 10.0 UVB bulb (still need to find a fixture), A daylight bulb for heat, some BioVine and smooth branches (made for birds), many fake vines, and the plan to include hibiscus and pothos plants. 
I can easily make a dripper, but a misting system looks like it might be out of my range at the moment. I really want a HabbaMist, but $40 is a bit much seeing that the Cham itself could cost up to $100.

So, any comments on this plan? Would it work or does it sound too iffy?  :Smile: 

OH... And I keep forgetting to ask, but would a bird cage work for a juvi veiled Cham?? They don't rust, great ventilation, they look good, water would get through fine, and I plan on making worms of different types his main diet so no escape issues (crickets would be offered from time to time, but mostly by tong/hand). What do you think?

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## JimNAZ

Not sure about the paint. As long as it is non-toxic when completely dry you should be alright. Just be careful if it starts to peel . . .

What do you mean by vinyl rug? Is it just a mat or plastic carpet (type)? You will have a lot of moisture from misting etc and the smoother & easier to clean the bottom is the better. 

The size of the cage should be fine. I started 5 month olds in 2x2x3 with no problems.

10.0 bulb is good. You need at least an 8.0 for that height of cage. I really like the Reptisuns and you can get them online for around $20-$25. Just remember that a UVB bulb will still produce light even after the UV is gone. Keep track of the months in use.

You may find keepers who have had luck with the Habbamist but I have not heard anything good about them. You might want to save your $. (In case you decide to get more chameleons so you can get a comercial mister  :Wink:  . . .)

Plants & vines sound good. The more live plants the easier to keep humidity in the cage.

I have heard both good & bad about bird cages and I have never used them. Although you are planning on using worms as the main diet I would also suggest adding more variety if you can.

Jim

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## Argentra

:Smile:  Rug just means that vinyl will be what covers the wood on the cage floor.  :Smile:  It's totally smooth thick vinyl.

The paint is what I used on my rack and it's held up very well. I also used the same type, different color, on the corn cage system I'm almost finished building, so I'll see first hand how it works on the INside of a herp enclosure. 

I still have to 'tear test' the screen I have for strength, but I do believe I'll just build a nice screen cage since I already have the materials.  :Smile:  

And, I know they're omnivores and will eat plant greens and such... but what do you mean by adding variety? There are only so many feeder insects out there, and most of them are worm types.  :Smile:  I plan on offering silk, butter, wax, phoenix, meal and super worms (one type/feeding) and also giving occasional crickets (BF refuses to keep them in the house now after I used to breed them) and fresh greens. What else would be appropriate?

Thanks so much for the advice, JimNAZ. You're really helping me out.  :Very Happy:   :Good Job:

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## JimNAZ

Glad I can help!

You have a nice list of worm feeders so you should be fine. I guess I just assumed you meant 1 or 2 different ones. You can also use roaches if you are up to it  :Very Happy: . They are easy to breed and are no where as bad as crickets.

Jim

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## Argentra

Ick...roaches.  :Smile:  I lived in ElPaso...  If I ever did give him some, it would be a rare treat and they would be given to him as soon as I brought them home.

Oh, and I had another great and brilliant idea for caging! Modular wire cubes.  :Very Happy:  Those great 14" panels you snap together to make crates, shelves, and rabbit and guinea pig cages! I still have a set of 10 panels and connectors, which is enough to make a 14x14x28 cage frame with door. Just cover with window screen attached with zip ties and you have cage!

Sound like a plan?  :Smile:

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## JimNAZ

I am not sure what you are referring to . . . 

Basically as long as you have these covered:
Ventilation
Security (both keeping cham in and everything else out)
Feeder confinement
And are able to mist, heat and put a light on it you will be fine. 

Where are you getting your cham from?

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## Argentra

Sorry, I guess that is a bit vague. This is what I'm referring to:



Now, I'm looking into getting some aluminum screen...but I'm not sure what type. Is basic aluminum screen from Lowes going to be alright or is it too rough?

And we aren't sure where we're getting him yet. I had wanted to look at the RMRE...but that's looking pretty grim for participants. We want to find a local breeder so as to avoid the stress (and cost) of shipping... but I'm not sure that'll be possible.

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## SoCaliSon

Hello!  I can't believe I missed this one so far!  :Smile: 

Thought I would give my few cents.  First thing I will tell you about keeping chams... Ask anyone who has been doing it a while... they are an addicting  Money Pit... But they are awesome.  Just know that you will have to warm yourself up to the idea of spending decent amounts of money, and in the end, You will find that the Chameleon itself really was the cheap part.  I have been all the routes... I have used Custom built cages, I have built my own, I have tried cheap Reptariums, and in the end... You will save your self a lot of time and headache by buying an Alum Screen Cage.  You can find them used for not to much, but LLL Reptile sells great Screen cages for the best price... and they often have sales on them... You will thank yourself later if you get one of those... And your cham will love it.  For my 6 month Male Veiled, until 4months old he was in an 18x18x36 getting natural sun daily and he grew large quick and I moved him to the LLL 4x2x2 cage and he loves it.   LLL also has the best price on the most recommended UV Bulb for chams, the Reptisun 5.0 for $13.99.  For heat/basking bulb, just use a regular dome fixture on top with a 60w old style house bulb, They tend to provide all the heat needed for a Veiled, and cost worlds less than "Basking Blubs" made specifically for herps. 

I would not recommend a bird cage, I have heard stories of people trying and finding chams with stuck heads and limbs in the bars. 

Another thing I would recommend reconsidering is the flooring you are thinking about.  Ideally you want to have 3-4, 5 min mistings a day... and it becomes necesarry to collect or drain this water somehow.  You do not want to try to  count on evaporation.  When the water pools in the bottom of the cage where there may be droppings, dead leaves, maybe dead crickets, you are talking about a bacterial field day, and if you cham starts ingesting things at the bottom or that have been at the bottom, you are going to be possibly  looking at a sick cham, and vet bills at that point.  People often buy tubs that are a little bigger than the footprint of the cage to set the cage on, and drill drainage holes in the bottom.  There really are countless ways to get creative about draining the water, but the main thing to remeber about your cage floor, and drainage; *Water cannot be allowed to pool, and the cage floor should ideally be something that can be easily removed, and sanitized.*.  

As for the mister... *Do not buy the Habba Mist.. It is a worthless piece of junk, and a definate waste of money for chameleons.*  When I plugged mine in the first time... I thought it was boken it was so noisy and the mist (if you could call it that) was incredibly crappy... When it kicked on my poor cahm would run and hide from the thing.  For a good long while I hand misted, but if you are going to ... Do yourself a favor and spend $7 at Lowes or Home Depot for a Hand Held Pump Pressure Sprayer.  Your hand will get real tired misting after five mins of squeezing the lever on that spray bottle.   If you are interested ina cheap DIY automated mister, you can take a larger garden pressure sprayer, and a hose timer and create a pretty nice mister that can handle the mistings and save you a lot of time standing in front of cages spraying.   Here is a pic of one I have to give you an idea of what I am talking about.

You basically pump to build pressure, then set the hose timer to flick on at ceratin times for certain intervals. The Nozzles are on the long skinny section of tubing.   Since there is no elec pump involved in this, the only noise is the click, and then the sound of mist. This one actually misted two big cages for me for a good while before I upgraded to a HerpMist.

You can build this for around $40.  It works great!  Or ... I can sell you this one for $25! :Wink: 




Plants... There really are several that are safe... And you definately want to make sure they are since Veileds are renowned for eating their foliage.  Here are the ones to use off the top of my head... Ficus Benjamina, Hibiscus, Pothos, Schefflera Arboricola, and Bouganvillia(The thorns are actually not an issue with them, as even in their natural habitat they are found inhabiting throend bushes, maybe for the extra security.  I have seen them hang out almost exclusively on their Bouganvillia, not to mention they add some nice flowery color to the cage.

Buying...  The best way to do it is to find a reputable dealer and order from them...no matter where they are in the country...Shipping is not as scary as you think, and *very rarely* ends up with any issues.  If you don't ship, then you are limiting yourself to what you can find locally even though the quality may not be ideal.  I have recieved several perfectly happy and healthy chams via UPS over night, from accross the country, with absolutely no issues to date, and I am glad I ordered from the people I did.  Don't limit your options when you have such a valuable resource as the interenet to find the perfect healthy cham anywhere in the country.  *And definately don't buy one from a glass tank in the petstore.*  Mike Monge at FLChams,  Chad and Darci at Tiki Tiki Reptiles, those are the two I can think of at the moment, that are considered very reptuatble in the Biz, and I would assure you a pleasnt transaction and a healthy baby from them.  The only thing I would not recommend buying from LLL would be their animals.  If you have trouble finding someone you feel comfortable ordering from feel free to PM me, and I can make sure you get in touch with someone worth dealing with. 

Good Luck with your Venture!!! They are great herps to work with, and can have you addicted and broke in a heart beat... But with all the herps I have worked with over the years I still consider my Chams the most rewarding and beautiful.  In case I may have scared you away from them at all in my monster post I will post a pic of my Buddy Lombardi to keep you interested...lol. :Very Happy:   He is the Drunk little Cham who was this months HOTM winner... this pic was taken about a month and a hlaf after the pic from the contest.



Take Care!

~Joe

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## JimNAZ

I would stay away from aluminum and get vinyl screening. They sell kits (with framing for windows) or by the roll. Really easy to work with . . . 
Just keep in mind "easy cleaning" when you design your cage.
If you have the cage full of plants, they will catch and absorb most of the water from misting. Since you are building a cage, you can add a drain on the bottom. This way you can still use your matting. Also, if you intend on using either some sort of dripper, you can always place a cup underneath where the water will land and change it out every day. The big problem with standing water is when people do not clean it out every day. (BTW: an ice cube left on top of the screen top makes a great little dripper!)
Veileds are pretty hardy but try to get a basking temp in the high 80's low 90's.  For me that was a 75w incandescent bulb.  They thermo regulate rather well on their own.

You CAN spend a lot of cash on accessories so that is totally up to you. Understand the husbandry and you can get by with many DIY items. 

I agree with the other poster. You can get very healthy animals from reputable breeders that ship overnight. I have never had a problem. Will cost about $50 extra but well worth it. If you do try to find something locally just make sure it is not dehydrated (sunken eyes/Dark skin around the eyes) or weak. I know these are obvious points but sometimes overlooked when excited about getting a new animal! ** And make sure you get a male! 

Jim

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## SoCaliSon

> I would stay away from aluminum and get vinyl screening. They sell kits (with framing for windows) or by the roll. Really easy to work with . . .


Vinyl screening is easier to work with... But is typically not recommended for Chameleon cages as crickets are infamous for chewing holes through vinyl screen.

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## Argentra

Thanks to BOTH of you for the awesome answers!!  :Bowdown:  :Good Job: 

However, neither of you has told me yet if you think it would be acceptable to use those cube panels (pic at top of page) as a frame...  :Very Happy:  

I already have some good quality vinyl window screen (huge roll to enclose my porch) so I shall use that. It Would be easier to clean.  :Smile:  And crickets chewing out isn't really an issue for me since he'll only get crickets now and then, and they'll be cup fed to him. My BF refuses to allow crickets in large amounts in the house...in his cage or in a breeding tank.  :Smile: 

The vinyl mat/tray on the bottom is mainly to serve as a bottom. As for the water and waste removal, if it's alright to use those panels I plan on making a 'second floor' about 7" up from the base, with larger hole screen covering it, with a tub in the space underneath. Sort of like a bird cage tray.  :Smile:  It would be MUCH harder with a wood frame to do that...

The bulb thing isn't hard or pricey for me since I have a box full of assorted SunGlo bulbs in varying wattages and no 'normal' household incand. bulbs (we use the 'green' compact bulbs). 

I have been looking at FLChams and I'll check out Tiki Tiki.  :Smile:  I've had snakes shipped before, but was nervous about such a sensitive animal being shipped here to cold Colorado. And I fully intend to get a male, no worries there.

Thanks again, guys...and let me know if you think those panels could be used for a frame.  :Smile:

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## SoCaliSon

I don't know about those frames.  You would still have to line it with some kind of screening, as the openings seem to big, and possibly a hazard for your cham to get himself stuck or escaping.  After getting crafty and managing to connect a front to it, and screening the intereior, you will probably wish you had just forked out the little bit of extra money for an actual chameleon cage.   You can find used cages all over, CraigsList, the Recycler, and Classified sections on chameleon sites, for about as much as you would spend in materials on a DIY.  

Here is a great article on doing DIY cages from Chameleons! Online E-Zine. This is similar to some of my cages. These are rather overkill for what you are looking for, but it can still offer you ideas on the specifics.

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## JimNAZ

> Vinyl screening is easier to work with... But is typically not recommended for Chameleon cages as crickets are infamous for chewing holes through vinyl screen.


Well everyone has their stories but I never have had a problem with this and know of others that use it too . . .. Since crickets are not the main feeder I feel this is a great alternative.

Jim

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## JimNAZ

I agree, those wire sections look like they have too big an opening. Since crickets will not be used I would not go for more than 1/2 inch openings on screen/wire/webbing. 

Since you already have the screen and possibly wood, just make a frame, add a door and cover it with screen. (There is more to this than that but you know what I mean. After a while you will more than likely want to change the layout/structure anyway . . . It happens to all of us. Eventually you just might end up getting the cham cages anyway. I really like them and the are really easy to put together (take a part) and clean.

Not sure if we are on the same page with the heat bulb. As said in another post, you do not want to use a reptile "heat" bulb. They will get too hot! You just want the closest (branch) basking area to be in the high 80's - low 90's.

You would need to speak with the breeder on whether they are comfortable shipping to a specific location at a specific time of year (temp). The two that were mentioned above I have dealt with and have nothing but the best to say about them. If they say it is ok to ship then trust them. 

Jim

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## SoCaliSon

Yeah I don't imagine vinyl being a problem if you are cup feeding, just keep an eye for any that escaped the cups down in the corners , casue once there is a hole, others will follow single file. :Razz: .  I know supers can chew threw it as well pretty easily as well.  It can work, not saying it won't, Just I have heard enough of those stories to stear me away from it, and warn others of the possiblity as well.  

But if you are cup feeding, and in deed making a DIY cage, I believe the best option would be neither alum or Vinyl, but instead, PVC coated Wire mesh, something with a openings no bigger than an 1/8 or 1/4 inch opening. The benefit of this is that if your Cham climbs the side of the cage, it is A LOT easier on their feet.  The tiny little holes in screen cause them to put all of their weight on their toe nails when climbing, and can end up with broken nails, which do not grow back, and depending on how bad it is can get infected.   For my "Screen Climbers" I line the intereio of my screen cages with this stuff solely so it can be climbed easier and to avoid nail breaks, this way it keeps insects in as well, so that is another option.

Just food for thought.

Sounds like Jims Idea of just buiding the fram, which is very basic, and going from their the screening is a good way to go.  I agree that you will most likely make changes in design along the wya.. that is how these things work!  Good Luck!

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## Argentra

The panels would only be the frame...of course I was going to cover it with screen.  :Smile:  And for the front, you just attach other panels with zip ties for the door. 

I fully understand that you guys mean well by telling me to buy a pre-made cage... but that is just not an option for me. The LLL cage costs $50 without shipping, and that's way too much for me. 

Since I already have these panels here at home, as well as some wood, building my own cage is the best option right now. I'm just trying to figure out the best materials. I'm reluctant to use wood since I would have to paint it with a latex-based paint to seal it. And tho I've already used that paint on my snake rack, and on my almost finished cages, I know that chams are sensitive and I don't like to risk it.

Now, I just have to find a good screen type. I already have a roll of vinyl window screen, but I was concerned about the climbing thing (I've owned an iguana before). I don't know what you mean by the PVC coated wire mesh... what does it look like and where would it be found? I'd like to use the best screen that won't hurt him.

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## ThyTempest

I'm gonna be the bad guy and say that if you can't spend 50 bucks one time for an animals enclosure...you probably cannot afford to keep said animal.  

Going over how much I spent on our purchases this year...

1.1 Cornsnakes
1.1 BCI
0.1 BP

3 Acurites, 3 Dimmer switches, 2 Power Strips, 40qt tub, 2 12qt tubs, 2 15qt tubs, water dishes, 1 xlarge UTH, 2 medium uth, 2 small UTH, bale of aspen, aluminum tape, spray bottles, feeding tongs....I think that is everything....comes out to be about $45/pet.  Keep in mind, these are all snakes which are supposedly one of the cheapest reptiles to get into for startup costs, as well as feeders in the long run.

Just food for thought, if you cannot afford it now, maybe it is time to get a change/swear jar going and save up to make it a New Years Resolution or something.

Edit:  I realize shipping sucks, but in this industry, quality almost always has to be shipped.  Whatever the cost of shipping is, is the part that becomes the extra mile for the keeper to strive for to ensure a happy, healthy pet and overall ease of keeping the beloved pets.

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## Argentra

Oh, I understand that perfectly. And, don't misunderstand the fact that I can't afford the pre-made cage... it's not because I can't afford the animal and its care overall (I've done a ton of pricing and monthly expense figuring just to determine that we can get the cham), but because other things that I MUST buy and can't make, like the UVB bulb and fixture, take up quite a bit of the budget. Since I can and have built my own enclosures, it's just a good way to save money so it's available for the other things. 
Plus, my BF just will NOT spend that much on something that I could make for (essentially) free. That's a big part of it that I forgot to mention before.  :Smile: 

I know full well how much animals cost, and I have a savings account just for critter expenses (possible vet, replacement eq, etc.). I do the best I can for my animals...always.  :Smile:  And if it turns out that the cage I build - be it wood frame or wire panel frame - isn't safe, secure, and comfy for a young cham then I will get a pre-made one and do without something to make up for the extra cost.

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## JimNAZ

> I'm gonna be the bad guy and say that if you can't spend 50 bucks one time for an animals enclosure...you probably cannot afford to keep said animal.  .


This is a very bold statement that is often used too much by people when someone is discussing cutting costs in reference to husbandry.
I agree that in some situations there are no other options but to spend "X" amount of money for the right equipment/accessory. In my opinion in reference to chameleon husbandry, you do not need a commercially built cage for it to be safe and functional. There are plenty of other things that you can spend $ on with chameleons that (again in my opinion) are more important.

As long as this cage is safe for the chameleon, I think it is great to have another person enter the world of chameleons as a keeper. 

Jim

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## JimNAZ

Here are a couple of pics to give you an idea of what you are getting into  :Wink: 

[IMG][/IMG]

Here is a funny one (well t least I think so . . .)

When no means NO!

[IMG][/IMG]

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## Argentra

:Very Happy:  Those are cool. I like the 'confrontation' pic.  :Smile:  You have some really pretty chams there.

And you have it exactly. I'm not a scrooge who won't give her animals what they need because it's "too expensive", nor am I the type who has a ton of animals but can't even afford one. No. 
I am the type of herp keeper who has lived her whole life finding ways to reduce costs while still providing above average care for her animals. I'm a college student, so that means low budget. Wherever a reduction can be made safely, it is made.  :Smile:  But I always get at least the minimum required EQ for any critter in my care. 

I am a few steps from finishing a bookshelf-style cage system of 4 (currently 5 with the top split into two cages) cages for my corn snakes. I made this, using supplies I already had plus a Lowes gift card I had been given, to save space and money and because I love building. I built my own snake rack, rather than buy one pre-made, because I could save money and have fun doing it...and because I could customize the tub sizes.  :Smile:  Once the cage thing is finished I'm building another rack like the first.

Oh, and as for the built cham cage - If I use the cube panels I intend to put the screen on the outside. This would let the cham grasp and climb the bars of the frame without allowing him to get stuck trying to push out through the holes. Does that sound doable? 
Another word on the LLL cage - sure it's the best thing to get and it's already made just right... but I'll probably be getting a 3-5 month old cham who'll need a medium cage to start. If I spent that 'extra' money on that cage now, I would just need to do it again for more when he needed a bigger adult cage. If I did get him a good quality cage, and I'd like to, I would save up while he grew and get it as his adult cage. :Smile:

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## JimNAZ

Again I think you will be fine. Just keep the chams health and safety 1st and be open to having to change something and there should not be a problem.

In my opinion I would lean toward 5 months of age for the chameleon. Just a better chance of getting a healthy cham. (Unless you get one from a reputable breeder like the ones mentioned in another post.)

BTW: I hear you about school! I just graduated last May and at the age of 48 . . . it was not easy.

Jim

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## Argentra

:Smile:  Well, I got some aluminum screen today from Lowes and intend to construct a 'trial' cage from the cube panels to see how it would work. If that doesn't work and the cage isn't sturdy or secure enough, then I'll go with wood.

Also, I'm not totally sure but I believe we've found a good cham! I emailed Chad at TikiTiki and he says they have a nice 6 month old male for a fair price. I've asked for pictures, but looks aren't as important to us as health, strength, and a gentle personality (for a veiled).  :Smile: 

So, I'll put together the trial cage and see what Chad sends me.  :Very Happy:

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## ThyTempest

I didnt realize you had so many supplies on hand.  If that is the case, more power to you for building your own, I did the same thing when I was building my rat rack.  I kind of regret it now, because I used old timber that my family had lying around, some of it was warped and now my rack isnt straight...which just bugs me.

If you have most of the stuff already without any other purpose for it, go ahead, but before it sounded like you only had a little bit on hand and ready to go, and that mostly you were building it from stuff you planned to go out and buy, in which case the savings would probably not have outweighed the benefits of buying the cages from LLL.

Good luck with the cage and chams, I think I speak for the forums when I say we expect some pics once he is settled in.

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## Argentra

:Very Happy:  Oh there will certainly be pics. I love taking pictures of my animals.

All in all, I had about 90% of the materials - for either frame type cage - here already. And none are older than 4 months.  :Smile:  (Don't feel bad, I've done the 'use the old wood lying around' thing before. Heck, because I didn't use my level enough the snake rack I have is rather uneven.  :Embarassed: )
Not to mention that I already have quite a bit of the EQ a cham needs and only really need to buy that mister from SoCaliSon (whom I thank profusely  :Bowdown: ) and the live plants to have everything. 

I'm getting excited now... just can't wait to hear back from Chad and get the trial cage put together to see if it'll work.  :Very Happy:

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## JimNAZ

Chad is a great guy, you will not be disappointed! Plus, 6 months is a good age to start off with . . .

*** Warning:nothing like opening up a Fed Ex package and popping off the top of a container to find a chameleon staring back at you!  :Very Happy: 

(Now if you start singing that Boy George song we will be in trouble!  :Wag of the finger:  )

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## SoCaliSon

If the boy you are considering from Chad is 6 months there is a great possibility he is the brother of the Veiled I post pics of Lombardi...They would be clutch mates! :Very Happy:

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## Argentra

:Very Happy:  Ooo, that would be cool. I expect I'll hear from him sometime tomorrow, since today was Sunday. Can't wait!  :Dancin' Banana:

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## SoCaliSon

PVC Coated Wire Mesh

This is from the McNichols Site, just for reference.  I know you can get a roll that would work for fairly inexpensive at Lowes or home depot. 

I also wanted to link you to this site...http://raisingkittytheveiledchameleon.blogspot.com/ Created by Brad Ramsey, this is has proven to be a great source of all the info you would need to successfully raise a Veiled.  He created this as a blog on Raising his Male Veiled Kitty, and has turned into a great refernce for up to date husbandry practices that are great to follow.

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## Argentra

I've already got Brad's site bookmarked.  :Very Happy:  I saw it when I joined over there and it's great. He's really nice too, and lives right here in Denver.

Thanks for the reference to the PVC mesh. I looked all over Lowes and even asked three people...they don't carry it. They only have the non-coated stuff.  :Sad:  I'll keep my eyes open for it elsewhere, but in the meantime I'll just use the aluminum screen I got.

And, that 6 month old is indeed clutch mate to Lombardi and is being held for me until I can get the cage and stuff set up.  :Very Happy:   :Dancin' Banana:  He's a bit pricey, but acceptable considering his age, and with the money I've saved in building the cage myself and getting that mister from you, SoCaliSon ( :Bowdown:  :Bowdown: ) I can afford to get him.

So now, I just have to get that cage made, get a nice Pothos and Umbrella plant, and wait for the darn weather here to warm up.  :Smile:

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## SoCaliSon

How is it going with your Cage?  Your mister is in the mail today, you should have it early next week!  :Smile:   I know in my lowes the PVC Mesh you would be looking for is found out in the garden area.  Try refering to it as poultry fencing, and they typically have a nice variety of some with holes small enough to be safe.  The stuff I saw for sale at my lowes I believe had 1/4" square openings and was covered in black PVC.

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## Argentra

Thank you SOO much for sending that.  :Smile:  I'll be in touch once it arrives.

As for the cage, I've started putting the panels together and ended up getting aluminum screen to cover the frame. I looked at Lowes and asked around, but the only coated wire they had was poultry wire with 1x2" openings. I'm ok using the screen, though, but thanks for the site and description.

Once the frame is built, I'll take a few pictures to post.  :Smile:

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