# Colubrids > Ratsnakes >  "Milagro"  (translation "miracle")

## Bogertophis

So, it's time for me to come clean & admit that ever since the 27th of August, I've been harboring a brand new hatchling rat snake, & her name is Milagro.   :Snake: 

I have good reasons for not sharing my happy news with you all sooner: she wasn't supposed to be here...I didn't plan to have another snake but she hatched out of an 
infertile egg, I assume the result of parthenogenesis.  Snakes that have only one parent (are not the result of breeding) often have many defects that keep them from 
surviving, but so far, she's doing great!   :Aww:   I also know that you'll be mad at me for not posting pictures, but by now those of you that 'know me' here have no such 
expectations, lol.  So "sorry" in advance for that  :Wink:  but there isn't much to see yet anyway*, plus my first priority will always be what's best for the snake, & right now 
that's eating, resting, & growing stronger.  *She is a typical Pantherophis alleghaniensis hatchling- blotch pattern in shades of muddy-gray that will eventually change 
to adult yellows with different markings (dorsal stripes most likely), & she's tiny!  Just 11" long & no fatter than a pencil, her head the size of a striped sunflower seed.  

Milagro's mom is Lainey, one of my 11.5 year old Florida rat snakes (a blend of yellow, gulf hammock & probably some Everglades thrown in).  I have 2.2 of these c/b 
snakes...I've had them for about 10 years now, since their owner in Florida lost both his job & his home, sadly had to re-home the snakes he was working with & move 
up north.  They've never been together, yet every year both females do double-clutches of eggs, which is why the males are so much bigger than the females.  Their 
1st clutches have been up to 27 eggs, & their 2nd clutches are typically around 18.  Many of those eggs are obvious slugs that I toss, & in the past I've used some of the 
nice white eggs for "show & tell" but only this year did I actually try incubating them.   

You can imagine my shock when I walked past the eggs one morning & saw a tiny chin peeking up out of it, & blowing bubbles in the goo.   :Surprised:   Sometime that afternoon 
she made it out of the egg & was exploring; I quickly fixed up her own place to live.  The only defects I can see are a very minimal bump in her neck, & a tail tip that's a 
bit more blunt than it should be.  She has no siblings, but there have been at least 4 fully-formed hatchlings  (from either adult female) that did not make it out of their 
eggs even after they made made some slits in them.  There are only 5 "good" eggs left incubating, & only from Lainey's second clutch (not due yet), none from the other 
female.  Now I am not by any means an expert on parthenogenesis...the only other possibility is that these snakes were put together when young by their first owner, & 
that somehow they managed to mate at that time.  I don't think that's the case, & even if it were, it would mean it's been at least 10 years since that mating.  :Confused:  Unlikely.

So no matter how Milagro came to be...it's pretty amazing.  At one day of age she was chasing the motion of my finger so I gave her a live pinky mouse, which she ate.
After that, she went into 'shed' & after shedding on 9-4, she easily took a f/t pinky, then again on 9-7 and again on 9-13...so she's off to a great start.  She's active in 
her cage when hungry, and climbs pretty well, but she's also not above slipping face-first into her container of damp moss after 'posing' from the side, lol.  I've often 
caught her peeking & watching me...very typical of rat snakes, but mostly she's hiding & resting/digesting.  (I'm assuming she's a "she"- I've not checked.)

I've bred plenty of snakes but it's been some years, & I've not been wanting to add any more snakes...but I have to admit that I'm pretty stoked about having Milagro in 
my life.  I've often said my best pets have often been the ones I didn't plan or choose, so here I go again.   :Smile:

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## Bodie

Very cool Boger.  I know it's not your thing, but you should post some pics.. :Very Happy:

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*Bogertophis* (09-15-2019),_FollowTheSun_ (09-15-2019),_Toad37_ (09-15-2019)

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## richardhind1972

Very cool indeed bogertophis
Hopefully we get to see some pics,soon. 
so glad it's eating already too

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*Bogertophis* (09-15-2019)

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## Bogertophis

Re pics, I'm not trying to be a tease, I'm just not real techy, & never take pix, much less post them,  lol.

Anyway, I'm delighted that her appetite & digestion are working so well.  Hatchlings don't typically eat before their first shed, but she didn't hesitate.   :Love: 
I'm pulling for her...such a tiny thing!

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Bodie (09-16-2019),_EL-Ziggy_ (09-15-2019),_richardhind1972_ (09-15-2019)

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## Valyndris

That really is a miracle snake, I had a cockatiel (parrot) that pretty much shouldn't have made it but did and his name was Miracle for like 10 days till we renamed him Shadow. He was hatched by love birds and hand raised from day one. The name Shadow suited him perfect because he followed me around everywhere like a shadow.

Here's his story if anyone is interested, I know it's not snake related but I found him to be a miracle too.
https://imgur.com/gallery/MjMtka2

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*Bogertophis* (09-15-2019),_richardhind1972_ (09-15-2019)

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## Toad37

That definitely is a miracle! It's really cool that she's doin so well with no defects. She was obviously meant to be yours so hold on to her and treat her well!!

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*Bogertophis* (09-15-2019)

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## Bogertophis

> That definitely is a miracle! It's really cool that she's doin so well with no defects. She was obviously meant to be yours so hold on to her and treat her well!!


Thanks, I know...it's just crazy!   :Very Happy:   She's pretty much a hands-off snake right now, while she grows & gets stronger.  She's not much to look at yet...if you're curious about what yellow rat snake hatchlings look like, you can google & you'll get various images that represent her well enough, like this one:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...mHB39lBnVkjDgw

I don't recall which thread it was here, but a while back I happened to mention that my adult Florida rat snakes automatically lay eggs every year & that this year I thought I might try incubating them (since many appear as viable, white eggs with healthy veins & a red glow when candled), & someone asked me for an update if I tried...I never really thought I'd have this much to update though.  And then I wanted to see how well she did...I didn't want to jinx it the minute she made it out of her egg.  

I didn't even have tiny pinkies to feed her when she appeared to want food.  My mice are in-between litters & my frozen supply is larger pinks at the smallest, for my Texas longnose snake.   He mostly eats fuzzy mice, but sometimes the mice have more than they can care for & so I happened to have large pinkies too...so that's what Milagro has been eating from literally "day one".  She's a tough little rat snake, alright.   :Snake:    Don't you wish BPs (& other snakes) all switched from 'live' this easily?  LOL

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_Toad37_ (09-15-2019)

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## dakski

WOW - Crazy story Bogertophis! Yes, you did give me a hint after all, but not what I was expecting!

I am pulling for the little one!

You might have your own Yafe on your hands, huh?

Thinking good thoughts and sending them both of your way.

Keep us posted.

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*Bogertophis* (09-15-2019),_richardhind1972_ (09-15-2019)

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## Bogertophis

> WOW - Crazy story Bogertophis! Yes, you did give me a hint after all, but not what I was expecting!
> 
> I am pulling for the little one!
> 
> You might have your own Yafe on your hands, huh?
> 
> Thinking good thoughts and sending them both of your way.
> 
> Keep us posted.


What were you expecting anyway?  I guess you thought I bought a new snek, LOL.  It's not as if I was expecting this either.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):   I just couldn't bring myself to throw 
away eggs that appeared so viable, & they were easy in incubate...my house is the right temperature all summer, so all I did was plant them in damp moss.  As time 
went on, some went bad & were tossed, but even now there's still 5 "good" ones from Lainey's 2nd clutch...yikes!  It still surprises me that 4 of them came very CLOSE 
to hatching- fully formed snakes but with defects they couldn't quite survive, & that may be the fate of these last 5 too, but I'll let you all know what happens.  

I really don't expect Milagro to have the troubles you had with Yafe- for one thing, there was no air shipping.  But only time will tell if there's any life-shortening issues 
and we welcome your good thoughts for sure.

Life is full of surprises sometimes, & if you ever have a snake that lays "infertile eggs" just don't be too quick to count them out.   :Wink:   :Snake:

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## aurum

Wow! Milagro is aptly named. Also how lucky are you witnessing two parthenogenic hatchlings in a lifetime! 
Fingers crossed that she continues doing well  :Smile:

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*Bogertophis* (09-18-2019)

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## Bogertophis

> Wow! Milagro is aptly named. Also how lucky are you witnessing two parthenogenic hatchlings in a lifetime! 
> Fingers crossed that she continues doing well


Thanks & good to hear from you.  She just ate f/t pinky #5 last night & she's doing great!   :Love:   So tiny but full-size instincts...uses all of her cage but is still shy, as is 
expected, & her digestion is excellent.  I sure wasn't expecting this...at all! (faint)  But that's just my luck I guess?  Some people win at lotto...me, I win snakes!?   :ROFL: 

I must admit, it's nice having a tiny snake toddling around the house again... :Snake:   Especially one that's so easy to please.

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aurum (09-18-2019),_dakski_ (09-18-2019),_richardhind1972_ (09-18-2019),_tttaylorrr_ (11-09-2019)

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## Gocntry

That's really Cool how Milagro came to be......  Glad she's thriving under your care, hope she's continues to grow and do well  :Smile:

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*Bogertophis* (09-18-2019)

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## Bogertophis

> That's really Cool how Milagro came to be......  Glad she's thriving under your care, hope she's continues to grow and do well


Nature pulls some incredible stunts sometimes, in an effort to reproduce, & so far, she's "all systems go".   :Very Happy:

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## Bogertophis

BTW, in the past, the eggs that "looked viable" always ended up going bad eventually, so I don't know what made me decide to try "planting" them this year? 
Same reason that folks play the lottery, I guess?   :Rolleyes2:

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_richardhind1972_ (09-18-2019)

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## Bogertophis

Not much to update on Milagro:  she's doing very well...she looks & acts "empty" every four days so that's when she eats another f/t pinky as she just now did. 

Her digestion is excellent...I haven't normally fed hatchlings this often, but I've been going by her appearance & behavior, & pinkies aren't very filling.   :Snake: 

She's been active in her cage...I enjoyed seeing her basking on her branch this morning for a while, but she's still pretty shy.  I cleaned her cage a little while ago
& held her briefly before I put her back in, & just before I fed her- she's pretty squirmy yet (quite normal) but didn't try to bite, & it didn't deter her appetite one bit. 

She's a great little rat snake... :Very Happy:   I've also "caught" her taking a bath in her water dish a few times, so I just gave her one that's a little bigger.  Florida rat snakes 
do like water...occasional soaking is not a "sign" of anything, it's just what they do.  

Still have the last 5 "infertile" eggs incubating...not due yet.

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_dakski_ (09-22-2019),_richardhind1972_ (09-21-2019),_Toad37_ (09-22-2019)

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## Gocntry

Yay for Milagro......    But we really need a pic  :Very Happy:

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## Bogertophis

> Yay for Milagro......    But we really need a pic


Nagging will get you nowhere...just saying.   :Wink:   I'm very busy & it's not anywhere near the top of my list.

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## Gocntry

> Nagging will get you nowhere...just saying.    I'm very busy & it's not anywhere near the top of my list.


OOF didn't mean to be a nag.....  not what I intended,  :Embarassed:  my apologies on that......

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*Bogertophis* (09-27-2019)

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## Bogertophis

> OOF didn't mean to be a nag.....  not what I intended,  my apologies on that......


Just accept that I'm an outlier, LOL.

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## Bogertophis

Update:
She took another pinkie last night (5 days since last one) and she ALMOST took it right from the tongs, but chickened out at the last minute.  She had been hiding 
in a mound of Carefresh-&-paper shreds, & she pursued the pinkie to the other side of her cage before realizing just how exposed she was and retreated into her 
hiding place.  So I had better things to do than wait & closed up her cage, but after a few minutes, I came back to check & she had already downed it from where 
I left it (she had to come all the way out again) & was even following the motion of my wiggling finger (outside the cage) again.  She's gradually getting braver but 
she's so tiny, & her instinctive caution is normal.  Even though she's not quite ready to eat off the tongs, she doesn't have far to go, & she wastes no time once I've 
showed her there's food to be had...she comes out to find it.  Very easy little snake... :Snake:  

I've also noticed that even when I've changed her cage arrangement, she has no trouble finding where the UTH is to warm her tummy on it.  It amazes me how such 
a tiny creature can be so aware.  (She's still only about 12" long & only a smidgen wider than a pencil.)

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aurum (09-28-2019),_dakski_ (09-27-2019),_Gocntry_ (09-28-2019),_richardhind1972_ (09-28-2019),_Toad37_ (09-27-2019)

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## Jus1More

What a wonderful story Boger! Sometimes the unexpected gifts are the best ones to receive. Absolutely a miracle and a blessing in one... I agree with posting some pictures but of course when you are ready. Thank you for sharing...  :Peace:

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*Bogertophis* (09-29-2019)

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## Bogertophis

> What a wonderful story Boger! Sometimes the unexpected gifts are the best ones to receive. Absolutely a miracle and a blessing in one... I agree with posting some pictures but of course when you are ready. Thank you for sharing...


I caught a glimpse of her this afternoon sprawled on her branches but once she knows she's been seen, she goes & hides, until I "catch" her doing something else, like 
bathing in her water bowl.  She's doing well...but growth takes time.  And courage, even longer, lol.

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aurum (10-03-2019),_dakski_ (09-29-2019),_Gocntry_ (09-30-2019),_richardhind1972_ (09-30-2019)

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## Bogertophis

She was on her branches again this morning, checking the air-flow thru the ventilated top of her cage, and then later this afternoon, she took f/t pinky #8 from 
the tongs, finally.  She was partly in substrate, and it took a minute or so...she obviously wanted it but had to "think it over some"... :Very Happy:   Silly snake.  She's still 
very squirmy any time I have to pick her up...but that's normal at this stage.  She still makes no effort to bite & everything's just as it should be..."normal".   :Snake:

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aurum (10-03-2019),Bodie (10-02-2019),_dakski_ (10-02-2019),_Gocntry_ (10-03-2019),_Jus1More_ (10-06-2019)

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## Bogertophis

One thing I noticed when she was on her branches is that she's really learned how to hang onto branches better:  she really throws her "curves" around them now, 
whereas before, she'd slide along & more easily lost her grip...like a toddler learning to walk, eh?   :Very Happy:   :Snake:

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aurum (10-03-2019),_FollowTheSun_ (10-03-2019),_ladywhipple02_ (10-03-2019),_richardhind1972_ (10-03-2019)

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## Bogertophis

She's more like her mom every day.  Her cage is roughly 10" wide by 16" long & 12" high, & yesterday I revised her "floor plan" yet again to make improvements. 

I have no fear that she'll go "off feed" from such changes, by the way...she embraces each one (as she visibly did today) by exploring.  Her damp moss is a container 
about 5" high that takes up 1/4 of the "floor" in one corner, another corner is her water bowl, & the remaining half of the cage has a warm hide & a cardboard tunnel 
with substrate mounded to tunnel in, both with & without UTH.  She has 2 branches, each one wedged diagonally to go from the floor in one corner to the ceiling in 
the other, and somewhere in the middle of the cage these branches intersect & cross each other.  

This morning Milagro looked like a miniature version of her mom:  she was draped with half her body on each branch, & her tail tip holding on to the top of her moss 
container.  She is obviously feeling more secure, and she stayed there quite a while, in her "room with a view".  Pretty darn cute!   :Love:   Even though she just ate, 
it didn't stop her from exploring & even climbing, but she alternates between hiding/resting and checking things out at her own pace, every inch a rat snake.   :Snake:

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## cletus

Glad to see she is doing well!

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*Bogertophis* (10-03-2019)

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## SquirmyPug

That's amazing! Hopefully she will continue to do well and we will get to see her one day  :Very Happy:

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*Bogertophis* (10-07-2019)

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## Bogertophis

She was real active a few days ago (on & off the branches, in & out of her moss, in & out of her hide & tunnel) but now she's been hiding, so I'm sure she's in a 
shed cycle...she was due for one.  This will be her second shed, I'll keep you posted.  I already miss watching her antics...especially when she'd sprawl on a branch 
for a while just like her mom does.  I'm guessing these snakes are adept at catching some birds & squirrels in the wild...they look much like the branches they're on. 

I really like giving her more environmental challenges in her cage as she's growing...she appears to have gotten more adept, more coordinated at navigating her 
surroundings, the more practice she's gotten.  Let's see now, what else can I teach her?   :Wink:   Probably time for a bit more handling...

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aurum (10-09-2019),_dakski_ (10-10-2019),_FollowTheSun_ (10-09-2019),_Gocntry_ (10-10-2019),_richardhind1972_ (10-10-2019)

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## richardhind1972

So glad she's doing so well. 
it's fun to see the little ones exploring so much 

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*Bogertophis* (10-10-2019)

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## RickyNY

You know what a real milagro would be? If you post a picture  :ROFL:

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*Bogertophis* (10-10-2019),_FollowTheSun_ (10-10-2019),_GoingPostal_ (10-13-2019),_richardhind1972_ (10-10-2019),_tttaylorrr_ (11-09-2019)

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## Gocntry

> You know what a real milagro would be? If you post a picture



Uh Oh  :Surprised: ,  Been there tried that  :Very Happy:  :ROFL:   See Post #17


(p.s. just making a funny no offense to anybody intended or implied  :Cool: )

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*Bogertophis* (10-10-2019)

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## Bogertophis

Quick update on Milagro: she went into a shed cycle starting a few days ago, & still hasn't shed...she's just been laying low.  Yesterday I saw her peeking out at me 
from her box of damp moss, so today I decided to add some moisture as the moss has been drying out.  Sure enough, she was still in there & I gently removed her 
and she stayed cupped in one hand while I watered & fluffed up the moss.  Before putting her back in, I left the water dribbling in the sink & cupped my now-free 
hand in front of her while she drank for about 2 minutes from the water I was catching...she sure knows how to be cute.  :Snake:   -I'm prejudiced, I know...   :Wink: 

Still no efforts to bite me and if she's thinking at all about the universe she hatched into, she must be wondering about this psychic giant that seems to know when 
she's hungry or thirsty?   :Very Happy:   I confess, this "giant" sure loves rat snakes...

Still no change on the remaining 5 "good" eggs...if anything hatches out, it should be by the end of this month.  Very slim chance, but you never know.   :Cool:

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aurum (10-13-2019),_dakski_ (10-13-2019),_Gocntry_ (10-14-2019),_richardhind1972_ (10-13-2019)

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## richardhind1972

Really glad she's going well, fingers crossed you get a couple more hatch 

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*Bogertophis* (10-13-2019)

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## Bogertophis

> Really glad she's going well, fingers crossed you get a couple more hatch 
> 
> Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk


 :Wag of the finger:  NO!  Thanks, but no...I never got around to posting in that thread about "how many snakes we have?" but my answer is a firm "enough!"   :Smile:

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## richardhind1972

> NO!  Thanks, but no...I never got around to posting in that thread about "how many snakes we have?" but my answer is a firm "enough!"


??
Not really sure what you meen, lol 

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Jakethesnake69 (10-13-2019)

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## Bogertophis

> ??
> Not really sure what you meen, lol 
> 
> Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk


I mean I've got a full house, & only so much energy, lol...I never expected any of these eggs to hatch* & have no desire to breed any more snakes, which is why I haven't for many years now.  *It was just hard to toss out these viable-looking eggs though...maybe next year I'll send them over to you... :ROFL: 

Don't get me wrong...Milagro is adorable, but...enough already.   :Wink:

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_richardhind1972_ (10-13-2019)

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## Bogertophis

So a little update:

Milagro shed (2nd time) on 10-15.  This shed is about 3" longer than her first one, & her pattern (of blotches) is also noticeably darker than on her previous shed.
I don't think that she is actually getting darker, but maybe that her shed skin is a little thicker this time, making it appear darker?  She is visibly more robust now.

On 10-16, I decided to offer her a pinkie (her 9th) & had to search her cage since she wasn't actively looking for prey when I finally had it ready (thawed).  Removing 
one thing at a time, she was the last place I looked, in her cardboard roll "tunnel".  Holding the tunnel with her inside in my left hand, I wiggled the pinkie using tongs 
at the open end & after a minute, she cautiously approached it (despite my presence) and began to swallow it.  She backed up into the tunnel as she continued to 
work it down.  It was too dark to see into the tube & I didn't want to disturb her but about the time that I thought enough time had elapsed for her to have finished 
swallowing it, I felt her sliding against my left hand from inside the tunnel, so with a slight tilt, I let her slide out into my cupped hands.  

To my surprise, she only had the pinkie half-way down!  OOPS!   :Embarassed:   But being the trooper that she is, she just kept right on going & did her best to ignore me and 
the fact that she was now exposed & sitting in my hands having dinner.  She finished & I only held her briefly -she looked like she wanted to bolt- so I lowered my 
hands near the tunnel & she went right back in.  I then planted her tunnel back in her cage.  I saw her briefly later on...she is such a string bean that even a pinkie 
makes a pretty big bulge in her tummy, but today she's already out of hiding in her cage & looking good.

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aurum (10-19-2019),_dakski_ (10-19-2019),_Gocntry_ (10-19-2019),_Jus1More_ (10-22-2019),_richardhind1972_ (10-19-2019),_Toad37_ (10-19-2019)

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## Bogertophis

Because of the stress involved & her tiny size, I never weighed Milagro when she first hatched out, but now, after 9 pinky-meals she weighs all of 14 grams. 

She's noticeably bigger & stronger now than when first hatched...I'd have to guess that she weighed in about 8-9 grams right out of her egg.   :Snake: 

For anyone considering a hatchling colubrid, keep in mind they are tiny & delicate, as well as squirmy & fast when they want to be (ie. when they panic).  

It's truly best to let them grow & get stronger for a while (like a baby in a hospital nursery) before moving forward, so until now I've only handled her briefly
 as needed to clean her cage & such.  As before, she is alert but never tries to bite -by no means true for all similar colubrid hatchlings- some rat snakes can 
be much feistier until they learn not to fear their humans.  Instead, Milagro's preferred reaction is to suddenly try to bolt from my hands & this is also typical-  
all hatchling colubrids are best handled over something safe & soft, like a bed.  They need a very light touch, since restraint only results in their panic.  She 
did very well for a while today, sitting in my hands & even near my face today without panic.  I'll be offering her another meal soon, I'm very proud of her.   :Very Happy:

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aurum (10-22-2019),_dakski_ (10-22-2019),_Gocntry_ (10-22-2019),_Jus1More_ (10-22-2019),_richardhind1972_ (10-22-2019),_Toad37_ (10-22-2019)

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## Bogertophis

It's been 6 days since her previous meal, & even though she was handled a bit earlier this afternoon, she just ate 2 f/t pinkies & she's now resting happily.   :Very Happy: 
Such a good little rat snake.   :Snake:

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aurum (10-22-2019),_Gocntry_ (10-22-2019),_Jus1More_ (10-22-2019),_richardhind1972_ (10-22-2019)

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## Bogertophis

Another meal today...just one larger pinkie.  As before, she is interested but stops just short of accepting (eating) from the tongs...her vote is clearly in favor of 'drop-
feeding':  "Giant, please just leave my pinkie in my cage, I'll get to it, I promise."  She is very much on the passive side...she doesn't bite me, or pounce on (constrict) 
her food...just quietly eats.   :Snake:   She was settled on her branches when I first offered, hoping she'd feel brave enough to take it while there:  she thought about it, 
but nope, not yet anyway.  

Now for the tease:  I should have some news coming soon about the remaining 5 eggs that I've been incubating.   :Very Happy:   But that's all I'm saying... :Razz:

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aurum (10-29-2019),_richardhind1972_ (10-29-2019)

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## Bogertophis

Milagro is already back to basking on her branches, fat pinkie-filled belly & all.  Always seems to know exactly what she wants & what she's doing... :Cool:

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aurum (10-29-2019),_dakski_ (10-29-2019)

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## dakski

I haven't written on this thread too much, but I've been following along. 

I am thrilled at how well she is doing. Good thing she's got such a great Snarent.

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*Bogertophis* (10-29-2019)

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## Bogertophis

> I haven't written on this thread too much, but I've been following along. 
> 
> I am thrilled at how well she is doing. Good thing she's got such a great Snarent.


Aww, thank you, that means a lot.  I'm just taking one day at a time- her entire existence was a surprise to me and I thought my days of raising snakes were all in the past, lol.

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_dakski_ (10-29-2019)

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## Bogertophis

Time for some updates:

Milagro is doing great...she fed again on 11/3/19 in a side cage, no less; I decided to feed her while I was busy cleaning her home...her f/t was ready and so was 
she, & typically rat snakes are less bothered by "eating out" than the shyer BP's most of you are used to, but normally I feed all my snakes in their own homes, fyi. 

AND SHE NOW HAS 2 SIBLINGS FROM LAINEY'S 2ND CLUTCH!   :Omg:    So now there are three... :Snake:  :Snake:  :Snake:   The other remaining eggs failed to hatch or went bad.

So far I have chalked up Milagro's existence to parthenogenesis, since I've had these now-adult Florida rat snakes (2.2) for some 10 years, they were about 1.5 
years old when they came to me, & they've NEVER been together since in my care.  So either this is parthenogenesis, or there was some early fooling around before 
they came to live with me & somehow that premature fertilization has lasted for 10 years????  I'd love to know your opinions on this- haven't yet sexed the hatchlings. 

#2 (hatched 10-29) is robustly sized, with a much lighter & aberrant pattern, but sadly has some kinks, one mid-body one that's fairly severe, & some in the tail that 
are of far less consequence.  She shed & took her first pinkie last night, but I'm not sure about her future, want to see how she digests & may get x-rayed to assess.
She's somewhat calm like Milagro, but to get her to taste the pinkie, I teased her with it using tongs, & then she correctly decided it was edible after a few bites, lol.

#3 (hatched 10-30) is the smallest of the 3, normal dark pattern similar to Milagro.  (these rat snakes change pattern from blotches to striping & their yellow+ colors 
take a year or so to gradually come in).  She just shed also, but refused a f/t pinkie last night and I'm waiting for live pinkies soon.  She is the shyest & was actively 
coiling & striking to scare me off.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):   This is normal rat snake behavior, I might add, & it means little about their adult personality.  Hatchlings that aren't defensive 
may not get to grow up if they fail to scare off their predators.  (this one has no kinks that I've seen)

So....that's what I've been up to lately.   :Smile:   Expected ZERO snakes to hatch from these "infertile" eggs, but got THREE!??   :Disbelief:

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aurum (11-07-2019),Bodie (11-07-2019),_dakski_ (11-07-2019),_Gocntry_ (11-07-2019),_richardhind1972_ (11-07-2019),_Toad37_ (11-07-2019)

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## richardhind1972

That's great news milagro got two new play mates
shame about the kink in one

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

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*Bogertophis* (11-07-2019)

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## Gocntry

> Expected ZERO snakes to hatch from these "infertile" eggs, but got THREE!??


Wow what are the odds.....

Glad Milagro is doing great 

Hope #2 makes it, sounds like the odds aren't to good on him/her  :Sad:  But you never know 

Hoping #3 Grows up Big and Strong

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*Bogertophis* (11-07-2019)

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## Bogertophis

Thanks everyone...yeah, this is crazy, that there's 3.  Just checked on #2 & she appears to be digesting OK...just coiled up in her hide.  

Hoping to have a live pinkie soon to try on #3, but it was likely just too soon after shedding & that one felt too stressed.  May take f/t now or soon, I'll keep ya posted.

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## Bogertophis

Now I'm puzzled:  I just saw #2 out of hiding, she was flicking her tongue & trying to investigate (me looking at her), and when she turned to go back I no longer 
saw the mid-body kink???    Is it even possible that her backbone was just "stuck" from being in the egg, and that maybe (?) the passage of this pinkie thru her 
digestive tract made it pop into the correct position???  I don't want to pull her out now for a further look, but all I can say is that as she retreated, her body was 
lengthened & rippled like any normal snake that was stretched out and going forward, with no sign of the "fairly severe kink".  

*If I'm right about this, it means that many breeders may be putting down hatchlings that have such "defects" that may actually work themselves out.  It's not as if 
there are any chiropractors for snakes.  Thoughts?  (Now I really wish I'd measured the angle of the kink she hatched out with.)*  

I just saw her out exploring again...I can hardly believe my eyes but there is no evidence of the kink.  It was there when I fed her 2 days ago, but not now.   :Very Happy: 
She's going to be VERY gently handled while she grows stronger...I hope her back doesn't "go out" again, but needless to say, I'm very optimistic for this cutie.

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aurum (11-07-2019)

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## Gocntry

:Good Job:  Alright #2 !!!   Uhh she needs a name please, so we dont have to keep calling her #2, That just sounds wrong  :Confused2:

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*Bogertophis* (11-07-2019)

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## Bogertophis

> Alright #2 !!!   Uhh she needs a name please, so we dont have to keep calling her #2, That just sounds wrong


LOL!  Her new name is Wundertat (miracle in German)   :Very Happy:   or Wunder for short... :Wink: 

I still can hardly believe this, but I'm excited!  She's personable, like Milagro is, & I saw her exploring her humid hide (moss-filled) too.  Snakes that don't feel good or have pain & trouble moving around don't do that stuff.

So I guess #3 might as well be Mirikel (miracle in Hebrew), for future reference.

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aurum (11-07-2019),_Gocntry_ (11-07-2019)

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## Gocntry

> LOL!  Her new name is Wundertat (miracle in German)    or Wunder for short...
> 
> I still can hardly believe this, but I'm excited!  She's personable, like Milagro is, & I saw her exploring her humid hide (moss-filled) too.  Snakes that don't feel good or have pain & trouble moving around don't do that stuff.
> 
> So I guess #3 might as well be Mirikel (miracle in Hebrew), for future reference.


Good names for the new pair!!

The names for the three fit perfectly.   :Smile: 

Here's to a long and healthy life for all 3 !!! 

 :Snake:  :Snake:  :Snake:

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*Bogertophis* (11-07-2019),_dakski_ (11-08-2019)

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## Bogertophis

Thank you, I really appreciate it!

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## aurum

This whole clutch was just full of surprises, huh?  :Very Happy: 
Great to hear they're all doing well now, and I hope the third develops more of an appetite soon. I love all the names too.

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*Bogertophis* (11-07-2019)

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## Bogertophis

> This whole clutch was just full of surprises, huh? 
> Great to hear they're all doing well now, and I hope the third develops more of an appetite soon. I love all the names too.


Thank you...and what an understatement...yes, this is quite a bit more than I was expecting.   :Wink:

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aurum (11-08-2019)

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## dakski

Love the name - not that any of my animals have Hebrew names (Behira, Yafe, Shayna - yiddish, but close). 

Wow, this clutch is the gift that keeps giving! Wishing them all well on their journey towards a long and happy life with a great Snarent!

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*Bogertophis* (11-08-2019)

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## Bogertophis

> Love the name - not that any of my animals have Hebrew names (Behira, Yafe, Shayna - yiddish, but close). 
> 
> Wow, this clutch is the gift that keeps giving! Wishing them all well on their journey towards a long and happy life with a great Snarent!


Thanks dakski...I've been keeping snakes for a long time now, and I honestly haven't wanted to add any more, I haven't even been tempted to, for quite some time.   
So of course, they just keep showing up!?   :ROFL:  And they're so stinking cute too!  It's just not fair...  You wait, next year when the adult females lay all those eggs again, 
I'm shipping them to YOU!   :Wink:

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_dakski_ (11-08-2019)

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## dakski

> Thanks dakski...I've been keeping snakes for a long time now, and I honestly haven't wanted to add any more, I haven't even been tempted to, for quite some time.   
> So of course, they just keep showing up!?   And they're so stinking cute too!  It's just not fair...  You wait, next year when the adult females lay all those eggs again, 
> I'm shipping them to YOU!


I am all for it! Did you check with Katie though? She might not be your friend for long if that happens!

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*Bogertophis* (11-08-2019)

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## Bogertophis

> I am all for it! Did you check with Katie though? She might not be your friend for long if that happens!


Just tell her you found & rescued these eggs under a tree that was about to be cut down... :Wink:   I won't tell.

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_dakski_ (11-08-2019)

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## Bogertophis

I had been waiting for my mice to deliver some new pinkies but last night I saw Mirikel finally out of hiding since her shed a few days ago, & she was drinking water
& she looked hungry, so I thawed 2 pinkies, since I was also being watched by Milagro.  

Mirikel had previously been offered a f/t pink but left it...but that was "then".  :Snake:   She took her first pinkie late last night, after a little "tease" as I'd done with Milagro.
This is a technique that works well with rat snakes, but not something you'd do with shyer snakes like BPs, & it's not something I'll need to continue doing either...it just 
starts their learning process:  as I approached & uncovered where she was hiding, she was coiling & striking with open mouth in self-defense.  Offering the pinkie on 
tongs, it took a number of hits before it dawned on her that it tasted pretty good & maybe it was edible?  Finally she hung on, I remained motionless & down it went!  :Very Happy: 

The use of this technique is only temporary: what begins as a defensive bite teaches the snake what is good to eat by teasing it until it tastes the pinkie.  The first time
I offered her a pinkie without much tease & left it overnight, but she didn't eat it; she was pretty shy & may not have even come out of her hide to know it was there, 
or if she did, she wasn't hungry enough yet.  Had I left it IN her hide, she might had eaten it, but doing so would have stressed her more than I wanted to at the time
due to the way her home is set up with lots of 'cover'.  Rat snakes are looking for prey that moves, & if live pinks are unavailable for their first meal, this usually works.

The other pinkie was chowed down by a happy Milagro, who openly ate from the tongs for the 1st time last night.  This was her 13th meal, & she's doing great- she's 
visibly longer now too, & last night's solo pinkie was a small meal for her...she's taken 2 at a time previously.  It's fun to watch a tiny rat snake learn that my presence 
is nothing to fear & that I sometimes bring goodies... :Very Happy:   She's calmer when handled now too, off to a great start.

Wundertat missed the party last night:  not quite due for a second meal and due for a check-up as well, I wanted to wait another day or so to focus on her.  Checking 
her home just now, I see that she had no trouble digesting her first pinkie...the results are in, or should I say, out?   :Wink:   I'm so curious to check on her, but not about 
to rush her, or any of them.  I've had lots of practice raising rat & corn snakes...patience is key.   :Snake:

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aurum (11-09-2019)

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## tttaylorrr

bogie...

this is absolutely insane. and the fact you haven't shared a single picture is honestly on par with the acts of war criminals.

since so many seemed to have developed and survived, is it weird i lean a little more towards the world's oldest retained sperm?

but that wouldn't explain all the other clutches you didn't incubate for years would it? and the one you do JUST SO HAPPENS to produce viable offspring? is there any research on how long retained sperm can be...good?

or is she just the second coming of the Virgin Mary? hahaha.

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*Bogertophis* (11-09-2019),_richardhind1972_ (11-09-2019)

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## Bogertophis

> bogie...
> 
> this is absolutely insane. and the fact you haven't shared a single picture is honestly on par with the acts of war criminals.
> 
> since so many seemed to have developed and survived, is it weird i lean a little more towards the world's oldest retained sperm?
> 
> but that wouldn't explain all the other clutches you didn't incubate for years would it? and the one you do JUST SO HAPPENS to produce viable offspring? is there any research on how long retained sperm can be...good?
> 
> or is she just the second coming of the Virgin Mary? hahaha.


When things slow down maybe someday I'll try to get into some photography... :Embarassed:  lol.  At the moment I have no way to take, much less share photos.  

I just don't know, as far as "how & why they're here"?  A recent article posted about a captive solo anaconda that had several offspring was verified to be parthenogenesis, but either way I'm pretty impressed with these.  I'd like to find out eventually, but for now, I'm just sharing their story.  

As far as "so many that developed & survived" there were SO many eggs produced- I swear these yellow (Florida mix) rat snakes are part-chickens?  :Wink:   Some developed but didn't make it out of eggs for various reasons, some of those were more obvious than others as to defects, & that happens either way too, partho or not.  

By posting here, I'm hoping that more members post about the longest viable retained sperm they've seen.  IF that's what this is, the longest I've seen previously was 5 years-a corn snake I had mated only once but produced viable hatchlings for 5 years...I truly kept looking for the 'off' switch.   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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_tttaylorrr_ (11-09-2019)

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## tttaylorrr

> IF that's what this is, the longest I've seen previously was 5 years-a corn snake I had mated only once but produced viable hatchlings for 5 years...I truly kept looking for the 'off' switch.


FIVE. YEARS. WHAAAAAAAAT. i just...how exactly does she (any female) keep the sperm viable??

snakes are absolutley amazing.

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## Bogertophis

> FIVE. YEARS. WHAAAAAAAAT. i just...how exactly does she (any female) keep the sperm viable??
> 
> snakes are absolutley amazing.


I have no idea, but I'm awfully glad that doesn't happen with humans, aren't you?   :ROFL: Can you imagine? Mate once & babies for years...?   :Surprised:   We'd be a LOT more careful!

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_tttaylorrr_ (11-09-2019)

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## tttaylorrr

> I have no idea, but I'm awfully glad that doesn't happen with humans, aren't you?  Can you imagine? Mate once & babies for years...?    We'd be a LOT more careful!


...my comments are just entirely inappropriate. LOL. shoutout to bc!

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*Bogertophis* (11-09-2019)

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## Bogertophis

I know how badly you want to put a "face" to these little snakes of mine...this is from MorphMarket, NOT one of mine, but 2 of mine look very similar to this hatchling 
Everglades rat snake (the whole family, including grey, black & yellow rat snakes) have a similar blotch pattern in fairly dull coloration (muddy grays & light browns) &
then gradually their true colors come in, while the blotches fade and some have parallel stripes also.  Of my 3, Wundertat is the oddball, much lighter in color, so I'm 
curious to see how she turns out.   Link to MM photo-  https://www.morphmarket.com/us/c/rep...-snakes/271436

The reason I just call my adult rat snakes "Florida" is that I believe them to be a c/b blend of Yellow & Gulf Hammock, with possibly Everglades thrown in, and maybe 
something else?   The guy I got them from was in a panic to re-home them as he'd lost his teaching job in Florida & then his home & was relocating to New York for a 
job.  He encouraged me to breed them to see what turned out, so I assume he had been doing some crossing.  My adult females look like yellow x gulf hammock, but 
only one adult male does, the other appears to have some Everglades, since he has some orange mixed with his yellows, & far less of the typical markings.

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_Gocntry_ (11-10-2019)

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