# Site General > Pet Related Laws & Legislation >  U.S. set to approve python ban

## ER12

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/01/1...ython-ban.html

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## drama x

Are you serious?  :Rage:

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## WarriorPrincess90

So, what does this mean exactly? Are all nine species listed in the Lacey Act going to be banned? Or just the Burmese and African Rock?

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## WarriorPrincess90

Wow, no. It still includes all nine listed previously. Guess my breeding plans are shot. As is my dream of owning a BCI in general. Thanks US for continuing to throw our rights out the window. :Rage:   :Rage:  :Mad:  :Rage:

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## KingObeat

THIS IS [WRONG]!!!!  :Mad:   :Rage:   When can we start protesting?  :Mad:

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## zeion97

No way........The US is going to Florida push it around... it's all about votes... that is all it's ever about...

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## WarriorPrincess90

I was particularly infuriated by a quote at the end of another article where one of the Senators or Reps said something to the effect of "The only people complaining/effected are reptile importers. And that's ridiculous." That obviously is not verbatim, but that was the gist.

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## drama x

Ok, if i cant get my Green Anaconda im going to be @*&%# PISSED!!!  :Rage:  :Rage:  :Rage:  :Rage: 

EDIT: Should i order a Green Annie right now? I feel if i dont i wont ever be able to have one!

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## BigJ

I'm sorry but I really can't see this happening...maybe a special ban for FL but a national ban doesn't make any sense. If by some strange reason they pass it...I doubt it will last long..just my 2 cents...

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## Driver

> Ok, if i cant get my Green Anaconda im going to be @*&%# PISSED!!! 
> 
> EDIT: Should i order a Green Annie right now? I feel if i dont i wont ever be able to have one!



In short Yes.  Thats why Gun Shows are packed because we are afraid of what is going to happen in Washington. So people are buying them while they can.




> I'm sorry but I really can't see this happening...maybe a special ban for FL but a national ban doesn't make any sense. If by some strange reason they pass it...I doubt it will last long..just my 2 cents...


I agree with you on this one.  This is one more reason Ron Paul is sounding better and better.

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BigJ (01-16-2012)

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## WingedWolfPsion

I have to question how accurate this article is, anyhow.  "Set to approve" doesn't mean 'has approved".

This is exactly the time to push harder.

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## Mike Cavanaugh

This is what happens when Government gets TOO big. 

Pay attention folks, and fight it with all ya got.


Try to save the snakes too.

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Emily Hubbard (01-17-2012),_meowmeowkazoo_ (01-17-2012)

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## BigJ

> In short Yes.  Thats why Gun Shows are packed because we are afraid of what is going to happen in Washington. So people are buying them while they can.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with you on this one.  This is one more reason Ron Paul is sounding better and better.


Best post I've seen in a while...but I am afraid that you may have opened a big can of worms...let the flaming BEGIN!

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## WingedWolfPsion

This is what happens when the people aren't educated, don't know how to think for themselves, and don't know how to resist propaganda.  Solve those problems, and the size of the government would be irrelevant.

The real problem is the degeneration of the ability to think critically in the populace.  It just keeps getting worse, and the corruption at the top is feeding it.  It's a self-perpetuating cycle...the people get dumber, and government gets away with more...the loudest voice always wins, now.

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_angllady2_ (01-17-2012),_babyknees_ (01-17-2012),mikel81 (01-17-2012),weird_science04 (01-17-2012),_wwmjkd_ (01-17-2012)

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## Foschi Exotic Serpents

Crappity crapola!

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## Kinra

This is irritating.   :Mad: 

I have my heart set on getting the male BCI the breeder is holding for me until the weather is safe for shipping and I'm going to be beyond mad if I can't get him because of this.   :Rage:  :Rage:  :Rage:

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## WarriorPrincess90

I think I'm gonna go ahead and get an RTB this week or next just to be safe.  :Wink:  Then move to Canada. Lol

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## Driver

> This is irritating.  
> 
> I have my heart set on getting the male BCI the breeder is holding for me until the weather is safe for shipping and I'm going to be beyond mad if I can't get him because of this.


*IF* this is approved then it wouldn't take effect immediately they would set a date for it to take effect in the future.

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## Missy King

It says " Reptile breeders, dealers, researchers and exhibitors also can continue operating under a separate permit program, as long as they agree to strict storage and transport rules."

And it says they will be banned from being imported, or sold across state lines. 

So...looks like they will still be available, and it will keep the wild ones from being caught and imported.
I would think if someone has to pay a license fee, and a microchip (even though this isn't really true for dogs or cats) they *might* be more responsible with keeping their pets. But, it's really all the stupid irresponsible people who've brought it to this anyway.

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## WingedWolfPsion

TRANSPORTED across State lines.

If you move from California to Michigan, you cannot take them with you.
If I live in Omaha, I cannot sell them to someone who lives in Council Bluffs.

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_babyknees_ (01-17-2012)

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## WarriorPrincess90

What does this mean for people who already own these species? Will they be forced to get rid of them, or potentially be persecuted?

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## Driver

Alot of people blame pet owners that let their snakes go when they got to big for the snakes in the everglades but there is a lot of research out that that doesn't support this. For one snakes that have been raised in captivity and only know how to eat what is dropped into their container and has grown that big wouldn't be able to survive in the wild for very long.  Granite they would survive for a while but not long enough to start a population.  They wouldn't be able to hunt as well to stay alive they are too used to be handed food. Now im not saying that some wouldnt survive but not enough to reproduce and to the number we have today.

What is more likely is the there was a large shipment of a few thousand baby Burmese pythons that came in Florida just before Hurricane  Andrew in 1992. A very large snake breeding facility was destroyed during Hurricane Andrew in 1992. This breeding facility was located just 5 blocks from the Florida Everglades.  This is one of them that just received one of the shipments of Burmese. As babies they would be able to start fresh just as they would in the wild and wouldnt know any better or be lazy.

Now im not saying bad owners don't release their snakes which they do and they shouldn't. Just not enough to contribute to what we have today.

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## Kinra

> *IF* this is approved then it wouldn't take effect immediately they would set a date for it to take effect in the future.


That is true, but as an owner of the banned species I don't like it.  I will be forced to choose between my pets or breaking the law if I ever want to move to a different state.   :Sad: 




> What does this mean for people who already own these species? Will they be forced to get rid of them, or potentially be persecuted?


It basically means you can't legally move with them out of state.  This bill only bans the interstate transport of them.




> Alot of people blame pet owners that let their snakes go when they got to big for the snakes in the everglades but there is a lot of research out that that doesn't support this. For one snakes that have been raised in captivity and only know how to eat what is dropped into their container and has grown that big wouldn't be able to survive in the wild for very long.  Granite they would survive for a while but not long enough to start a population.  They wouldn't be able to hunt as well to stay alive they are too used to be handed food. Now im not saying that some wouldnt survive but not enough to reproduce and to the number we have today.


While I don't believe the problem is from released pets, I don't entirely believe this argument.  Snakes are more primitive than dogs or cats and they do just fine when dumped by their owners.  I think released snakes would be able to feed themselves.  They don't lose those instincts no matter how long we have been keeping them as pets and that is part of why some people don't understand why we keep them.

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## KingObeat

Is there still a way to fight this?

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## Xotik

> Is there still a way to fight this?


You see that big red banner at the top of the whole forum? Follow it. The first page of that thread is a link to the petition. Sign it. Print it out. Send it to all of your legislators.

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## Dabonus

The more I think and read about this issue, the more conflicted I get. Both the Burmese and Rock python are a huge responsibility as a pet- much more so than any other reptile. I know the fear is that the passing of this law could set a precedent under which the government would eventually ban all reptiles, but I would like to believe that that isn't the case. I gather that the majority of members of this forum could handle the responsibility of keeping a large snake (or at least make a more informed option about owning one), but try and consider the general population. We all agree that there is a point at which a certain species should not be kept in captivity, but where do we draw the line? If it looks like were losing the battle, when do we take a step back and draw our line somewhere else? That being said, let me stress that I think the current legislation proposition is ridiculous, and should be revised.

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## BigJ

> The more I think and read about this issue, the more conflicted I get. Both the Burmese and Rock python are a huge responsibility as a pet- much more so than any other reptile. I know the fear is that the passing of this law could set a precedent under which the government would eventually ban all reptiles, but I would like to believe that that isn't the case. I gather that the majority of members of this forum could handle the responsibility of keeping a large snake (or at least make a more informed option about owning one), but try and consider the general population. We all agree that there is a point at which a certain species should not be kept in captivity, but where do we draw the line? If it looks like were losing the battle, when do we take a step back and draw our line somewhere else? That being said, let me stress that I think the current legislation proposition is ridiculous, and should be revised.



...we are drawing the line RIGHT HERE!

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_Driver_ (01-17-2012)

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## Mike Cavanaugh

> This is what happens when the people aren't educated, don't know how to think for themselves, and don't know how to resist propaganda.  Solve those problems, and the size of the government would be irrelevant.


I got news for you... that government that is getting too big is who is feeding those that aren't educated, don't know how to think for themselves, and don't know how to resist propaganda.  If you want to solve some problems, eliminate the enabler.

This is just another example of a too big government trying to take more control of its people.

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## WingedWolfPsion

Yes, big Burms, Afrocks, and mainland retics are a huge responsibility.

My super-dwarf retics, on the other hand, are pretty much like skinny ball pythons with a big appetite.
Don't forget that boa constrictors are part of this too.

This law doesn't care that dwarf Burmese exist, or super dwarf retics.  It doesn't care that Hog Island boas stay small.  They're all restricted as well.
This law doesn't care what happens to your animal if you have to move from one State to another, so long as you don't take it with it.

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## john c

This is bad news!  :Sad:   Our country is in a sad state when ridiculous political agendas and incorrect science, beat the peoples opinions. (Which our government is supposed to represent) :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 




> The more I think and read about this issue, the more conflicted I get. Both the Burmese and Rock python are a huge responsibility as a pet- much more so than any other reptile. I know the fear is that the passing of this law could set a precedent under which the government would eventually ban all reptiles, but I would like to believe that that isn't the case. I gather that the majority of members of this forum could handle the responsibility of keeping a large snake (or at least make a more informed option about owning one), but try and consider the general population. We all agree that there is a point at which a certain species should not be kept in captivity, but where do we draw the line? If it looks like were losing the battle, when do we take a step back and draw our line somewhere else? That being said, let me stress that I think the current legislation proposition is ridiculous, and should be revised.


You could say the same thing about guns.  Something many people own, and can handle responsibly but still some of the population could not handle one safely.  

Yes, Burms aren't for everyone - Yes, guns aren't for everyone, but it is NOT up to the government to decide for us.  

As stated before, "We draw the line here."  If a person accepts less freedom and draws their line further and further, from freedom, that person will lose their freedom all together.

Sorry for the long comparison.  Just the best one I could think of.

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_meowmeowkazoo_ (01-17-2012),weird_science04 (01-17-2012),_zeion97_ (01-17-2012)

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## BigJ

Actually its a pretty good comparison, the only difference is that all we could do to fight it is protest which is the worst part...it is not something specifically laid out in our constitution like the right to bear arms...whereas with guns if they tried to pull something like this there would literally be a revolution!





> This is bad news!   Our country is in a sad state when ridiculous political agendas and incorrect science, beat the peoples opinions. (Which our government is supposed to represent)
> 
> 
> 
> You could say the same thing about guns.  Something many people own, and can handle responsibly but still some of the population could not handle one safely.  
> 
> Yes, Burms aren't for everyone - Yes, guns aren't for everyone, but it is NOT up to the government to decide for us.  
> 
> As stated before, "We draw the line here."  If a person accepts less freedom and draws their line further and further, from freedom, that person will lose their freedom all together.
> ...

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## john c

> Actually its a pretty good comparison, the only difference is that all we could do to fight it is protest which is the worst part...it is not something specifically laid out in our constitution like the right to bear arms...whereas with guns if they tried to pull something like this there would literally be a revolution!


Very true!

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## dragonmoon

> Actually its a pretty good comparison, the only difference is that all we could do to fight it is protest which is the worst part...it is not something specifically laid out in our constitution like the right to bear arms...whereas with guns if they tried to pull something like this there would literally be a revolution!


Sad to say it but I think the country is already heading down the Revolution road... its been witnessed all around the world in recent years difference being this country has more armed civilians that military

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## SilverDemon

> Sad to say it but I think the country is already heading down the Revolution road... its been witnessed all around the world in recent years difference being this country has more armed civilians that military


That leaves a lot of conflict for veterans like myself.  While I absolutely do NOT approve of some recent measures the government has been taking, I also know what the military is capable of, and also that it's full of normal men and women that just want to make a living, same as the rest of us.

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## BigJ

> That leaves a lot of conflict for veterans like myself.  While I absolutely do NOT approve of some recent measures the government has been taking, I also know what the military is capable of, and also that it's full of normal men and women that just want to make a living, same as the rest of us.


Yes, one of them being my best friend, and I can tell you that not only has the Army's General (idk his official term) come out and said that he would never fire on the American public, but the general consensus of the enlisted is that of standing up for our constitutional rights no matter what the Army would tell them...its hard to fight a war with no troops!

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## Dabonus

The comparison to gun control is great, and if I'm not mistaken most states have some sort of regulation on who can own a hand gun. I stated that I think the current proposal is bogus, but it would probably be in the best interest of the community if some sort of law was passed to PROTECT the animals and the hobby. Everyone likes to dump on the government, but we would all be screwed without them. It's up to us to make sure they make the right kinds of laws.

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## BigJ

> The comparison to gun control is great, and if I'm not mistaken most states have some sort of regulation on who can own a hand gun. I stated that I think the current proposal is bogus, but it would probably be in the best interest of the community if some sort of law was passed to PROTECT the animals and the hobby. Everyone likes to dump on the government, but we would all be screwed without them. It's up to us to make sure they make the right kinds of laws.


YEA A LOCAL LAW.....FOR FLORIDA...NOT A NATIONAL ONE! THE POINT OF THIS THREAD IS THAT THE NATIONAL GOVERNMENT HAS NO RIGHT TO MAKE THESE KIND OF LAWS. It is absolutely asinine to think that the national government should ever consider a national ban like this...or a national ANYTHING regarding our rights to own/transport these animals! This is an issue that is affecting ONE of our fifty states and even the thought of the national government getting involved is so convoluted it baffles me!

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## maze031

I think a big problem is people thinking we have a "right" to own these snakes.  This isn't the second amendment folks. These are animals.  Blaming the government about this, is like blaming an egg, for being layed.  Too many times burms and retics have been sold to kids and people who have no clue what a 15 foot snake's needs are.  I think the main culprits, are the irresponsible breeders who only want to crank out a profit, and sell to any Tom, _richard_, or Harry regardless of their constrictor IQ.  Of course HSUS, and PETA, and all the other nuts are going to lobby hard for this.  We've painted a bullseye on our chests.  I really hope this doesn't get passed, and I really hope that we adopt a better stance on who should own a giant snake.  Maybe we should take a hard look at the falconer's model.

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_Dabonus_ (01-17-2012),_youbeyouibei_ (01-17-2012)

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## youbeyouibei

At the risk of ostracizing and completing infuriating everyone on this forum, owning snakes is not a right, it's a privilege. The talk of armed revolution and uprising is frankly ridiculous and plays right into the image that those who oppose this hobby are attempting to paint on all us as a bunch of drugged out, tattooed, pierced idiots hell-bent on breeding the next super snake to unleash on suburbia to eat Kitty and Puppy and the ankle-biting toddler snot from next door. 

Instead of talking insurrection and armed revolt, think for a minute. The legislation that is being proposed has an excellent chance of succeeding for a very simple reason: it strikes at people's emotions. Politicians are masters of spin and bull, along with creating demons where there are none (WMD's and purchases of yellow-cake uranium, anyone?). Let me be clear in that I am NOT attacking the military as I thank God for each and every one of those selfless individuals; I am attacking and pointing the finger at the fat cats in Washington who sent them on wild goose chase. 

Back to the topic at hand: the proposed snake ban is no exception; they create hysteria, fear and then offer hope and salvation through proposed legislation to "protect" everyone (McCathyism and the "red scare", Patriot Act and terrorism, etc.). 

Rather than react emotionally, in spite of the: _________ (anger, fear, hate, loathing, etc. fill in the blank) the proposed legislation evokes, be rational. Oppose the legislation, educate the public and MAKE YOUR VOICE HEARD! We, John Q Public, elect the idiots that currently "serve" (themselves!) in Congress, to represent us. Well, make them work for the moronic amounts of money they pay themselves and make them know that you won't stand for them to sit idly by while the industry and hobby we love is being attacked for nothing more than emotionally-based reasoning that is built on faulty "evidence" and in some cases outright lies. Write letters, join USARK and do *SOMETHING*. 

I know it's easier to go with the gut-check "Damn the torpedos, full steam ahead!" attitude but from someone who has done that more than I care to admit, the rational, well-thought out and reasoned approach has far better results and doesn't ostracize those who haven't made up their minds yet in terms of making a decision for or against this current debate/proposal and where they stand on the issue. Play into the image that we're being painted with by acting the fool and you've won the fight for the opposition without them ever having even tried. Just my two cents...let the flaming begin, lol!

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_Dabonus_ (01-17-2012),Foschi Exotic Serpents (01-17-2012),maze031 (01-17-2012),Morbo (01-18-2012),_pigfat_ (01-17-2012),_WarriorPrincess90_ (01-17-2012),weird_science04 (01-17-2012)

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## Mike Cavanaugh

> The comparison to gun control is great, and if I'm not mistaken most states have some sort of regulation on who can own a hand gun. I stated that I think the current proposal is bogus, but it would probably be in the best interest of the community if some sort of law was passed to PROTECT the animals and the hobby. Everyone likes to dump on the government, but we would all be screwed without them. It's up to us to make sure they make the right kinds of laws.


Do you still need to hold someones hand when you cross the street?  Some people just never get out of the stage of needing to be parented.  They think that dad (the government) should be this big powerful giant that tells everyone what to do.  After all, dad only PROTECTS things right?




> Blaming the government about this, is like blaming an egg, for being layed.


Hmmm... the government tries to push through a bill that lists a bunch of new rules based on lies and misinformation telling "the people" what to do...  But it isn't their fault because that "is like blaming an egg for being layed."I wonder if this is what our founding fathers had in mind for our government today.  

Funny thing is, it is what they knew would eventually happen.  That is why they let us have our guns... so we can put the government back in its place when it stops representing the people. 




> The talk of armed revolution and uprising is frankly ridiculous and plays right into the image that those who oppose this hobby are attempting to paint on all us as a bunch of drugged out, tattooed, pierced idiots hell-bent on breeding the next super snake to unleash on suburbia to eat Kitty and Puppy and the ankle-biting toddler snot from next door. 
> 
> Instead of talking insurrection and armed revolt, think for a minute.


Don't be so scared to stand up against the man.  He is working for you, not the other way around.

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BigJ (01-17-2012),_Kinra_ (01-17-2012)

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## kitedemon

I am a Canadian, I do not have a political voice at all. I have written a letter posted it and that about as much as I can do really. I have been watching this long drawn out struggle since its beginnings. Every change the government made USARK countered, a big game of chess. The legislation is still here, maybe it is time to stop playing chess.

I understand the passion I admire and relish it! Passion seems to becoming scarce these days. Hold on to it as that passion has great value. But perhaps a change of tactic is in order. I have not read this in tire thread just bits here and there. Perhaps a proposal should be proposed that would control the movement and purchasing of large constrictors but not place the power in the hands of the government but in your hands. The reptile industry has rallied together to fight the legislation it could be unified to come up with a set of controls to limit whom can own and keep (breed and sell) these animals. 

We all know they are amazing creatures and can be rewarding and bring great joy and amazement to those whom keep them. They also can be a handful and too much for those whom are unprepared, there are many who should not own them (or any living thing for that matter) You the responsible keepers know who is ready and who is not why not propose a self governing and regulating of the large constrictors. You have the expertise not some politician it saves money for the government they get to say look I did something vote for me. You get to keep you animals in peace. 

Falcons at least in my area have a great record of this the government differs to that community for all decisions and all regulations are written from that community and passed up to the government who enables them it works. 

I believe in USARC I have and continue to support as best I can as a foreigner. I believe that the people proposing this have no idea of what massive mess this article will cause if passed, what will happen to the 1000s (100 000s) of snakes out there now? People demanding compensation for loss of income... on and on. 

I hope this works out (again)

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_fndjason4_ (01-17-2012),KingObeat (01-17-2012),_minguss_ (01-18-2012)

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## WingedWolfPsion

States already have the right to create rules for those things.  The Federal government doesn't need to get involved.

It's too late to remove the snakes from Florida, they are there, and no ban will change that now.

Which is why this addition to the Lacey Act is COMPLETELY USELESS.  It doesn't accomplish ANY of the goals they claim for it.
Preventing me from taking a Burm from Omaha to Council Bluffs is going to benefit people, the environment, or the snakes...HOW?

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_spitzu_ (01-17-2012)

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## evan385

I guess if that's the case i'll buy the red tail boa I saw on craigslist tank and all and he's about a year old and he says make me an offer. Plus he's albino I figure he'll probably take $100 he really needs him gone. My parents will be pissed but if it's my only chance to get a BCI..

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## Daybreaker

^ Boas are "safe" (for now):

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...nstrictor-Rule!

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## sgath92

> Yes, one of them being my best friend, and I can tell you that not only has the Army's General (idk his official term) come out and said that he would never fire on the American public, but the general consensus of the enlisted is that of standing up for our constitutional rights no matter what the Army would tell them...its hard to fight a war with no troops!


That's why we have such militarized police. If the military won't do it, militarized police will. Even the department of education has their own swat team now.

These are not the same as "Officer Friendly" the beat cop that would help anyone in town who needed a hand, whether it involved a "crime" or just someone needing a ride after getting a flat. You really need to read this article. It's not the military that'll directly stomp on the civil liberties of civies by arresting them for feeding the homeless [illegal in some parts of FL], sitting on a sidewalk [illegal in some parts of CA], or sleeping on a park bench after hours when you have no where else to go [illegal almost everywhere]. 

You just have to hope that your house isn't the next one they do a no-knock overly-armed search on when they "get the address wrong." Anyone can be the next José Guerena [a soldier who was just trying to protect his family]. The fact that no body even knows his name shows just what has become "normal" in this country.

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_AGoldReptiles_ (01-18-2012),_minguss_ (01-18-2012)

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## Foschi Exotic Serpents

The reply I got after sending my letters last week... I wonder how many other of our reps had absolutely no idea that this was going on??

**

Thank you for contacting me concerning the Lacey Act. I appreciate knowing your thoughts on this matter.

The Lacey Act was signed into law in 1900. It was the first federal law designed to protect wildlife and is administered by the Departments of Interior, Commerce, and Agriculture (USDA). Over the past century, the law has been amended several times to expand protection to a broader range of flora and fauna, and to control the potentially dangerous introduction of non-native species.

Most recently, the bill was amended by the 2008 Farm Bill to prohibit the import of illegally logged timber and timber products. This amendment included language from the Combat Illegal Logging Act of 2007, which was written to help curb illegal logging practices abroad by eliminating offenders&rsquo; access to the U.S. market.

I appreciate your concerns regarding the scope of the Lacey Act. Although no legislation has been introduced that would amend or defund the Lacey Act, I will keep your views in mind in case the matter is considered by the Senate in the future.

Again, thank you for your message. Please feel free to stay in touch on issues of importance to you.
Sincerely,
Richard J. Durbin
United States Senator

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## MikeJuggles

I feel that some of you are over reacting. You have to understand the state's point of view. With so many wild Burmese pythons living in the everglades, it is inevitably going to the affect the ecosystem.

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## zeion97

> I feel that some of you are over reacting. You have to understand the state's point of view. With so many wild Burmese pythons living in the everglades, it is inevitably going to the affect the ecosystem.


Can you prove how many Burmese are they? No. There aren't a lot there especially after the cold snap... and for you to simply say that is horrid. The ban should.be on.importing. Florida can do what it wants but it shouldn't be able to control the entire u.s. it's just showing yet again how close we are to the second revolution in the u.s.... time.to.move.to Canada....

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## Foschi Exotic Serpents

> Can you prove how many Burmese are they? No. There aren't a lot there especially after the cold snap... and for you to simply say that is horrid. The ban should.be on.importing. Florida can do what it wants but it shouldn't be able to control the entire u.s. it's just showing yet again how close we are to the second revolution in the u.s.... time.to.move.to Canada....


Exactly! Obviously there aren't any that can be found now.. The cold snap did precisely what we thought it would do...
http://www.cnn.com/video/standard.ht...ons.vanish.cnn

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## jeff_blake

> I think I'm gonna go ahead and get an RTB this week or next just to be safe.  Then move to Canada. Lol


im with ya on that one  :Wink:

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## jeff_blake

> Exactly! Obviously there aren't any that can be found now.. The cold snap did precisely what we thought it would do...
> http://www.cnn.com/video/standard.ht...ons.vanish.cnn


they know whats up, they all hid.

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## TessadasExotics

I am surprised no one has taken a religious stance on this. Or at least no one has to my knowledge. 

Genesis 1:28
God blessed them. God said to them, "Be fruitful, multiply, fill the earth, and subdue it. Have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the sky, and over every living thing that moves on the earth."

I am not overly religious myself, but it seems like this would be a good point for fodder.

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## Skiploder

> The reply I got after sending my letters last week... I wonder how many other of our reps had absolutely no idea that this was going on??
> 
> **
> 
> Thank you for contacting me concerning the Lacey Act. I appreciate knowing your thoughts on this matter.
> 
> The Lacey Act was signed into law in 1900. It was the first federal law designed to protect wildlife and is administered by the Departments of Interior, Commerce, and Agriculture (USDA). Over the past century, the law has been amended several times to expand protection to a broader range of flora and fauna, and to control the potentially dangerous introduction of non-native species.
> 
> Most recently, the bill was amended by the 2008 Farm Bill to prohibit the import of illegally logged timber and timber products. This amendment included language from the Combat Illegal Logging Act of 2007, which was written to help curb illegal logging practices abroad by eliminating offenders&rsquo; access to the U.S. market.
> ...



Monica:

Durbin the Richard is an idiot.

One of his aides did a crappy job of reading your inquiry.

This is his "stance" on constrictors and the Lacey Act:

http://amazon-alliance.com/forums/in...ic=1288.0;wap2

http://www.usark.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&p=464

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## twistedtails

> Durbin the Richard is an idiot.


Damn Skip! You always have some kind of clever response! :ROFL: 

Btw, for those of you in this thread who think this means BCIs and all that you are wrong....http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...nstrictor-Rule!

I was able to read the original link in this thread and get from the article that this act will only take import of Burms and Rocks away. Do I approve of it, no! Am I happy it doesn't include Boas and Balls, yes! Either way, we as Americans have to protect the land we live in and these two big snakes have proved to be injurious and are destroying our ecosystem. Get angry at me if you want but I somewhat agree with what they are doing. Also, these snakes are not for 90% of the people who are on this forum anyway. Especially with some of the threads I see posted by some people. Tally Ho!

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## Foschi Exotic Serpents

> Monica:
> 
> Durbin the Richard is an idiot.
> 
> One of his aides did a crappy job of reading your inquiry.
> 
> This is his "stance" on constrictors and the Lacey Act:
> 
> http://amazon-alliance.com/forums/in...ic=1288.0;wap2
> ...


Well wth.. Nothing but a bunch of DEET DA DEEEEE's working there I see.. 

I did send a rather informed reply explaining how and why he/she/it/they were wrong regarding the reply I was sent.. Hopefully the "aid" reads it and gets my "here's your sign"...

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## tonkatoyman

Here are some thought to ponder about this subject.

1. This is a Florida problem exclusively and should be handled in Florida by Florida law. You don't punish the entire nation for a local problem.
2. This is being pushed by Bill Nelson Senator of Florida, PETA and HSUS.
3. Politicians operate based on action reaction. If they ban these and there is no adverse reaction then they continue banning others believing they are safe from public backlash because they believe they are either doing this unnoticed or no one cares. It also ingratiates them to their supporters in PETA and HSUS.
4. Regardless of your view on the keeping of large animals this issue cannot be ignored with the idea that because your animals are not on the list you are safe. 
5. I believe, based on the information I have been given, that this was a test to see if any one cares enough to make this a huge issue. If they can slide this under the radar then more may be on the way.... So please do your part to "Turn up the heat" and let them know this shouldn't happen in a free country. "At least its somewhat free for now!!!"

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## WingedWolfPsion

The whole 'proven to be injurious' thing?  No.

Actually, there was some evidence to suggest that the Burms were replacing missing mid-level predators in the Everglades...taking up the slack for waning populations of bobcat, for example.
What impact does that have?  Well, Burms eat a lot of smaller predators, such as opossums, raccoons, rabbits, etc.
THOSE animals eat a lot of small rodents, bird nestlings, and are quite fond of reptile eggs, which they sniff out and dig up.  The small, rapidly-reproducing herbivores like rabbits destroy a lot of vegetation.  
So, the presence of the Burmese is helpful to native turtles, snakes, and probably even alligators, in spite of the few they might eat.  (In turn, large alligators eat Burms).

So, while they are an invasive species in the Everglades, the idea that they are 'injurious' is pure speculation.  Yes, a snake ate a couple of endangered rats.  They are rats.  Lots of things eat rats--gators, birds of prey, native snakes...the missing bobcats....
Hopefully you see the point.

Burmese pythons don't even rate in the top 100 threats to the Everglades.  The most horrendously damaging invasive species in the Everglades are very non-sensational and non-photogenic...they're plants.
As has been pointed out many times, the domestic cat is one of the most terrible invasives in the country, and it certainly does a heck of lot more damage to the Everglades than the Burmese python could ever hope to.

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Markg6 (01-18-2012),_zeion97_ (01-18-2012)

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## MikeJuggles

> Can you prove how many Burmese are they? No. There aren't a lot there especially after the cold snap... and for you to simply say that is horrid. The ban should.be on.importing. Florida can do what it wants but it shouldn't be able to control the entire u.s. it's just showing yet again how close we are to the second revolution in the u.s.... time.to.move.to Canada....


Can you prove how many there aren't? 
They do not come from this part of the world. A big reason that there is a population to begin with is that irresposible people think, "oh hey, I'm just gonna buy this little burmese python, its so cute, omg....", and then when it grows into a 20+ foot "monster" of an animal that they can lo longer house, take care of, or contain, they opt for the easy way out and release it into the jungle. 
"hey, they come from the jungle, right.......?"
This problem is a product of our own carelessness, and the goverment is doing their job, whether we like it or not, like they should be doing. I dont think that attempting to ban all breeds of pythons or boas is the answer, but "we" let this happen, and "we" weren't doing anything about it. Everybody is so concerned about the rights of animals, and being selfish that they cant see that there is a problem.

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## dr del

> Can you prove how many there aren't? 
> They do not come from this part of the world. A big reason that there is a population to begin with is that irresposible people think, "oh hey, I'm just gonna buy this little burmese python, its so cute, omg....", and then when it grows into a 20+ foot "monster" of an animal that they can lo longer house, take care of, or contain, they opt for the easy way out and release it into the jungle. 
> "hey, they come from the jungle, right.......?"
> This problem is a product of our own carelessness, and the goverment is doing their job, whether we like it or not, like they should be doing. I dont think that attempting to ban all breeds of pythons or boas is the answer, but "we" let this happen, and "we" weren't doing anything about it. Everybody is so concerned about the rights of animals, and being selfish that they cant see that there is a problem.


So you don't think the genetics studies that link them back to the hurricane that flattened the warehouses of many repltile importers have any validity?

This wasn't caused by people releasing pets. At all. 


dr del

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Foschi Exotic Serpents (01-18-2012),_zeion97_ (01-18-2012)

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## sgath92

> They do not come from this part of the world.


It is revisionist science fiction to propose that animals are "static" based on geography and do not move without human intervention from point A to point B. Animals end up in strange places all the time by natural means. Just recently an asian duck from China ended up in California. It got lost and flew here. In anthropology there is a theory that humans came to north america only because they were following prey items like the wooly mammoths that had extended their range into the region. 

Non-native is a political term, political because not everything that is "non-native" is "injurious." There is a colony of conures in Parrot Hill in San Francisco. Are they "native" to the area? Hell no. But they have been there for decades,  going on a century, without posing any environmental problem to the area.

Nonetheless these HSUS/ETA type freaks pleaded to the city to pay to have them all rounded up and killed. *There was no scientific justification for this request*. Simply put it was "they aren't native so kill them all." Independent research of a few residents eventually confirmed that the birds weren't a problem and for that reason the council ultimately decided not to go through with the euthanasia. 

In Florida's case this is about MONEY. These bureaucrats want our tax dollars in the form of grants to "investigate" the python problem and then "fix" the python problem. Except they don't want to truly "fix" the python problem because if they do that they'll have to find something else to do for aliving. Whether the problem is really a problem to begin with is besides the point; if it's not a problem then they have one less thing to do to justify their jobs & budgets.

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## zeion97

> So you don't think the genetics studies that link them back to the hurricane that flattened the warehouses of many repltile importers have any validity?
> 
> This wasn't caused by people releasing pets. At all. 
> 
> 
> dr del


Thanks Del.  :Smile: 

I'll ad to this.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

No, pet owners did not release *ALL* the burms, only _SOME_ most are from the facilty that had anywhere from 600-1,000 *Hatchlings* Now because I have a feeling you're hard headed think about this... I have a 6 foot Burm. He's a docile and calm little guy, my cat even clawed him once and he didn't do anything. Now lets say this, I release him.... What's he going to do? He's been babied all his life and he see's me as his "shelter" his "mom" Snakes aren't as dumb as people think. 

Let's go bigger.. I let loose a 15 or 20 foot snake. Okay.. so now a snake that is even *OLDER* and has been through the same thing all his life would have no idea what to do... What's is it to do? The poor snake would most likely freak out and have little to no idea what to do. Why? because we've taken care of them all there lives. The two CBB that were raised would most likely be eaten by a alligator before they even had a chance to get a single meal/

Now let's see the thing with a baby.. The baby has little to no idea what to do, even being captive bred it hasn't developed enough in our care to be able to know it will always get food. Now a little hurricane somes through and releases them.. Instincts will kick in because of how young they are and some will survive it is inevitable.  

Now i'm going to take apart your quote....




> Can you prove how many there aren't? *1. NO I can not prove how many there are, it's IMPOSSIBLE to know exactly, but there is now bloody way there are 100,000 of them.*
> They do not come from this part of the world. A big reason that there is a population to begin with is that irresposible people think, "oh hey, I'm just gonna buy this little burmese python, its so cute, omg....", and then when it grows into a 20+ foot "monster" of an animal that they can lo longer house, take care of, or contain, they opt for the easy way out and release it into the jungle. 
> "hey, they come from the jungle, right.......?" *2. Like I said...most people don't release there snakes, contray to what you hear, IF someone raised a baby up to 20 FEET why on earth would they release something they love so much when they've cared for it for so long? espcially when they know a shelter will take it. 
> *
> This problem is a product of our own carelessness, *3. This is a product of "OUR" carelessness....???  so you released a burmese into the glades?  No it is not, as i stated above I will not retype it... I however educate people any chance I get, I may not be the best, but i do my part, which is a lot more then what most keepers can say.
> * and the goverment is doing their job, whether we like it or not, like they should be doing. I dont think that attempting to ban all breeds of pythons or boas is the answer, but "we" let this happen, and "we" weren't doing anything about it. Everybody is so concerned about the rights of animals, and being selfish that they cant see that there is a problem. *4. I don't see a problem? Please explain it to me? Burmese are destroying the glades? HOW? as WWP posted above... and i've preached more times them i can remember, Burmese do more good then bad. let's say 100 burms are born.. MOST will be eaten by other creatures that live in the glades, maybe a few will survive to adulthood but very few will.. They're not "Apex" like they've been labeled.. They're near the top, but not APEX.*


Now... I will agree with you to ONE point, the others should not suffer, but this is Flodria's problem and not the U.S. They're doing nothing but wasting our tax dollars to hunt down snakes. Like I stated, if they want to do anything they need to just ban IMPORTING. why should we not be allowed to sell to people in other states??  :Confused:  

Better yet, what does any of this law have to do with other then that fact Florida's politicians think they own the U.s..... 

This is a sad event, and i will do everything I can to overturn it. But it is comments like your that help add fuel to the goverments fire.. A reptile owner should *NEVER* say the U.S. is right for this......

<end rant>

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## boadaddy

> Damn Skip! You always have some kind of clever response!
> 
> Btw, for those of you in this thread who think this means BCIs and all that you are wrong....http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...nstrictor-Rule!
> 
> I was able to read the original link in this thread and get from the article that this act will only take import of Burms and Rocks away. Do I approve of it, no! Am I happy it doesn't include Boas and Balls, yes! Either way, we as Americans have to protect the land we live in and these two big snakes have proved to be injurious and are destroying our ecosystem. Get angry at me if you want but I somewhat agree with what they are doing. Also, these snakes are not for 90% of the people who are on this forum anyway. Especially with some of the threads I see posted by some people. Tally Ho!



Actually I think it's crap, burms can't live/survive in every state. Actually they don't thrive in all of Florida, weird? It should be a Florida state law and shouldn't punish the entire country for the problems that are only in the Glades. The hurricane is to be blamed for the burm pop down there, not a whole bunch of people releasing their 20' monsters lol. Quit buying into the governments propaganda people! They should focus on their own problems instead of trying to punish the entire nation for THEIR problems! I live in Co and can guarantee that none of the original 9 can live here. It wouldn't happen our winters are too cold and long. Just because regular sized burms aren't for everyone, what about the dwarf burms? I can agree with having laws against large constrictors in the Glades but can't agree with you thinking this is a positive thing, that's just delusional! I get tired of hearing people that agree with this ban, your being as ignorant as the people that wrote it!

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_thedarkwolf25_ (01-18-2012),_zeion97_ (01-18-2012)

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## Druzy

I'm really going to be devistated if I can't have the snakes that I want in the future  :Rage: . I am going  back to school to get a good paying job, so I can provide proper care to my hopefully future pets  :Very Happy: . In the mean time I'm doing excessive research on each reptile to know the proper living requirments these wonderful animals require  :Smile: .

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## therunaway

wow, im super galmmed im an anarchist, this is one of the main reasons too! i will continue to protest, i love my critters, and plan to have more from breeders nation wide, i will protest until we get a good answer,

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## WingedWolfPsion

Zeion, snakes are not like mammals.  They don't learn how to hunt.  They don't forget how to hunt, simply because they've been in captivity.  While a snake, released into the wild from captivity, would probably take a while to figure out where the best hiding, sunning, and hunting places were, it would inevitably do just fine.  Anyone who's lost a snake in their home can testify to how these animals fare in a strange environment...well enough that we can't locate them, lol.

The hatchlings from the warehouse were wild caught, imported baby burms.  Even if they had been captive bred...they were hatchlings.  Perfectly equipped to survive in the wild on their own, and perfectly unadapted to captivity as of yet.  They were the perfect way to introduce a new species to the environment there.
This is where the vast bulk of the Burm population in Florida came from.

However...it may not necessarily be where the boa, Afrock, retic, etc populations came from.  There HAVE been released or escaped pets.  Just a lot fewer of them, which is why all the screaming is about Burms, and not about boas.

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## RichsBallPythons

IM still waiting to come across a Boa or Burm up here in Michigan when im out in the marsh's.

 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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_zeion97_ (01-18-2012)

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## zeion97

> Zeion, snakes are not like mammals.  They don't learn how to hunt.  They don't forget how to hunt, simply because they've been in captivity.  While a snake, released into the wild from captivity, would probably take a while to figure out where the best hiding, sunning, and hunting places were, it would inevitably do just fine.  Anyone who's lost a snake in their home can testify to how these animals fare in a strange environment...well enough that we can't locate them, lol.
> 
> The hatchlings from the warehouse were wild caught, imported baby burms.  Even if they had been captive bred...they were hatchlings.  Perfectly equipped to survive in the wild on their own, and perfectly unadapted to captivity as of yet.  They were the perfect way to introduce a new species to the environment there.
> This is where the vast bulk of the Burm population in Florida came from.
> 
> However...it may not necessarily be where the boa, Afrock, retic, etc populations came from.  There HAVE been released or escaped pets.  Just a lot fewer of them, which is why all the screaming is about Burms, and not about boas.


Now yes, there are some that are released pets, my point to that little rant is people want to say they're all pets. It's impossible. It takes what.. 2 to 3 to get to 15 feet? Depending on how much you feed maybe more or less..

My point stands, Pets who have adapted to captivty stand a *FAR* less of a chance to survive in the wild. You're right, some can. I will not deny that, but what gets at me is when people say it's all the keepers fault. It's not. :\

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