# Site General > General Herp > Herp Broadcast >  You've got to be kidding me!

## Zoomie

I know this is not audio or video but god this guy needs to go hunt a snake in the wild and get eaten!

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,...est=latestnews

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## Zoomie

But of course PETA themselves don't help us pet owners by trying to help us at all either

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## Freakie_frog

I'm sorry I support an organized hunt. These are feral animals that's existence in the wild threatens my ability to keep my business. I say kill them all and then FL wont have a damn thing to complain about..

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_AaronP_ (07-16-2009),_dc4teg_ (07-15-2009),_DM1975_ (07-16-2009),_Hulihzack_ (07-16-2009),_Jsh_ (07-15-2009),Kaorte (07-16-2009),_mainbutter_ (07-16-2009),_Mike Cavanaugh_ (07-14-2009)

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## stratus_020202

Ugh! That is so sad. Too many people out there think the solution to everything is extermination. What an idiot. 

I don't know what the solution is to the ones already introduced to the wild, but it's so sad to picture a masive hunt for them. They are such beautiful creatures.

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## Freakie_frog

Yes they are beautiful but people wake up as long as they are in the wild the government will have a reason to strip your pets from you. Get them out of the wild by all means nessesary.

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_dc4teg_ (07-15-2009),_DM1975_ (07-16-2009),_Hulihzack_ (07-16-2009),_mainbutter_ (07-16-2009),_Mike Cavanaugh_ (07-14-2009),_PythonWallace_ (07-14-2009)

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## stratus_020202

> Ugh! That is so sad. Too many people out there think the solution to everything is extermination. What an idiot. 
> 
> I don't know what the solution is to the ones already introduced to the wild, but it's so sad to picture a masive hunt for them. They are such beautiful creatures.


I'm referring to the reporter, not to Freakie  :Razz:  It would be nice to start over, but how can we be certain nobody will release more into the wild. Just have a python hunt year round?

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## Zoomie

this is why humans make me sick sometimes of my own species. if we have a problem with a WILD animal being in the WILD our fix to it is to kill them.

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## Zoomie

Yeah freakie I am not kicking you for your views as everyone is entitled to their own views I just find this  wrong for pretty much same reason as stratus. it is a band aid fix that will cause the deaths of alot of wild animals in their home for no reason more then people being afraid and using the attack of the little girl as a catalyst for that fear.

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## wilomn

Well Zoomie, what would you do?

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_dc4teg_ (07-15-2009),_Mike Cavanaugh_ (07-14-2009)

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## stratus_020202

Figures someone would ask a smart question. ^^  :Razz: 

Um....

Nothing, just blankness.

Doesn't mean it won't keep happening. Maybe it would stop people from letting them loose, knowing if they are caught the animal's life will be in danger.

Probably not any different than all the other animals that are put down every year. It's still sad. All in all, it leads to one thing. Irresposible owners. That is where we should be placing blame, and hate.

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_dc4teg_ (07-15-2009)

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## snakelady

There is no easy answer to this problem. 
I can see the merits of both sides. These snakes do not belong wild in Florida. I wouldn't appose a well-organized controlled hunt. In many places there are annual "deer hunts" just to help keep the deer population stay manageable...and they are a native animal.

A hunt is probably not the best long-term solution. Again no easy answer to this. Especially, when 2 year-old kids die from a pet snake. That is just so sad and potential death for our hobby.

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## Zoomie

I am not saying I have the answer. Honestly to answer that question I would need to think it over and get mroe information about the area and what resources were avilable and what alternatives there are to killing them. But considering the man who is pushing this hunt is the same who is trying to ban them I doubt all that was done but *shrug*. I just think it is sad that us humans have to go into an animals home and kill it out of fear.

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## Qetu

ok....i guess i understand the fear of the pythons by florida people...but umm...gators? wtf? why are they not killing them? i would imagine a gator being more dangerous than a damned burmese.

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## Zoomie

My only concern is the aspect where this so called "organized hunt" is going to end up in a major kill all hunt driven by people's igronance of the species as a whole and the ignoring of the  underlieing cause of the problem.

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## JandDReptiles

What an ASS!!  Sen. Nelson is a true idiot in my opinion!  I understand there is a problem in the south regarding Burms in the everglades, etc. But HUNT AND KILL is out right stupid.  You know how many people will just go and try to join because they don't like snakes?!?!?!  And besides, there is no way to control the python population out there!  Nelson really needs to think before he speaks!

I don't mean to disrespect Mr. Nelson, but there are better ways to reduce the problem than go out and kill!

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## Zoomie

You know I just watched something the other day that said aligators were the most numerous and dangerous predator in florida yet they go after snakes!

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## wolfy-hound

First, the article makes it sound like a feral burmese killed the girl, when it was a irresponsibly kept pet.
Second, the burmese don't have a "home" in the everglades. They are a introduced species, and they need to go.  I support a "hunt".
Third, the burmese in the everglades isn't a result of thousands and thousands of Burmese owners all driving all the way down to the tip of freaking florida ot turn their snakes loose! Yes, and few MIGHT be, but that population did not occur from 10,000 pet owners managing to drive down and toss out a snake.  There's plenty of info on here alone about the various ways that burmese were released accidentally from hurricane damage, and from the very close by importation centers.

The burmese isn't native, that why people want to eliminate burmese, and not alligators.  If someone brought tigers in and managed to get a population going, I'd be all for hunting them out too.  Of course.. tigers would be dangerous to people.. where I don't think there's been any attacks by 'feral' burmese in the everglades.

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_Jsh_ (07-15-2009)

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## Zoomie

introduced or not they are still there as a result of some force which was not their fault by migration/movement of the natural species. which is why I say that it is their home. This is just another attempt in my opinion of this senator to try and get publicity for his bill to pass.

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## llovelace

> ok....i guess i understand the fear of the pythons by florida people...but umm...gators? wtf? why are they not killing them? i would imagine a gator being more dangerous than a damned burmese.


Our gator population shrank a few years back, now you need a permit to hunt them now.  They should offer a training course on capturing these snakes, for a nominal fee, then offer a reward for any brought in, house them & transport them back to their native land.  That's not asking much is it?

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## wilomn

> introduced or not they are still there as a result of some force which was not their fault by migration/movement of the natural species. which is why I say that it is their home. This is just another attempt in my opinion of this senator to try and get publicity for his bill to pass.


I know you're new and all but I have a question. Maybe a couple of them.

1) Do you always ignore questions you don't like or don't have answers to?

2) Do you ever think before you post or is it more of disconnect between the brain and fingers thing, making outrageous statements because they sound great but have no substance at all?

3) Do you actually understand what it is you're....mad?....at?




> Our gator population shrank a few years back, now you need a permit to hunt them now.  They should offer a training course on capturing these snakes, for a nominal fee, then offer a reward for any brought in, house them & transport them back to their native land.  That's not asking much is it?


Do you have some secret funding plan?

Fla. is pretty good about their animal control. My guess is that there would be permits and training for those taking part officially.

As Wolfy so wisely said, and I paraphrase here, they aren't native and don't belong. A hunt makes sense.

People making loud noises without cause are every bit as bad as those saying foolish or uneducated things.

Think about it zoomie. Are you another noise maker or are you just foolish and uneducated?

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_DM1975_ (07-16-2009)

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## Zoomie

You know I made this post not for people to attack other posters but rather for everyone to post their opinion about this matter. Sorry if this offended you in some way as that is not the intention. as far as question which question did I miss?

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## Zoomie

To anyone whom I missed as far as questions I am sorry as I am at work at a call center so my attention is split at times. As far as do I knwo what I am mad at. Yes I do. I am upset because the solution to the problem always seems to be kill whatever makes it a pain to us rather then find  another means and the fact the person pressing the hunt is the person also trying to ban pythons. To me this all seems as I said before as a way to publisize the bill that many on here from what I have seen are against. Being new it is not my intention to make anyone unhappy

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## lillyorchid

> I'm sorry I support an organized hunt. These are feral animals that's existence in the wild threatens my ability to keep my business. I say kill them all and then FL wont have a damn thing to complain about..



THIS could have not been said any better!  :Good Job:

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## Mike Cavanaugh

This is not directed towards any individuals, so please don't assume it to be.  
IMHO, if you are against the hunt, you are nuts.  It is a serious problem that must be dealt with swiftly.  They don't belong here, and they need to be removed.  They need to be humanely put down and removed NOW.

Please allow me to do some questions and answers with myself...

Will the hunters get them all?  *Nope.*  Will a well organized hunt lower the numbers enough to reduce environmental damage?  *yep*.  Will there have to be regular future hunts?  *yep*.  Is it even remotely possible to try to find homes for all or even some of these snakes?  *nope.*  If nothing is done, will they spread a little further North and end up in a nationwide ban including species that do not have anyting to do with the problem (including ball pythons)? *Yep.* Does it really have anything to do with the threat they pose to humans?  *Nope.*  Will the supposed threat to humans be what "officially" destroys everything we care about?  *Yep.*  Is there ANY other solution then an organized hunt to kill and remove them? * NOPE*.  What is the most disturbing part of the article?  *THE (insert vulgar word) over at Peta that are saying this:*
_
In response to the senator's proposal, officials from the People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals suggested that Nelson focus on banning the import and private ownership of pythons.

"Because as long as individuals are allowed to acquire these exotic animals, they will continue to be abandoned outdoors and attack humans,"_

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_DM1975_ (07-16-2009),_Jsh_ (07-15-2009),_jsmorphs2_ (07-16-2009),wuffielover (07-15-2009)

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## Jsh

I completely agree with Wolfy and Mike on this. I couldn't put it any better myself!

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## rjk890

I support a hunt. If USARK or PIJAC could work with the officials here in FL and organize an annual hunt, it would really go a long way toward showing that we as responsible reptile keepers are concerned with the problem and willing to help manage it. It may give USARK and those taking place in the hunt, a platform to really preach the fact that they were introduced into the wild by damage caused by Hurricane Andrew to the media, as well as those pushing for the ban.
Burms are beautiful but they are an invasive species. We can not protest their right to live in the everglades.

Here are some of my thoughts about it:
The hunt should be Feb.-May in order to take the females before they have a chance to lay eggs. Along with another hunt in Sept.-Nov. to take them before the winter sets in.
It would be nice if they could put "a bounty" on each snake to help reimburse those taking part in the hunt.(It would have to be lower than the wholesale price of the animals in order to keep shady characters from purchasing a 50 lot of Normal Burms for $30. each and turning them in for $50. "bounty.") Maybe a bounty for each egg or clutch as well.
It would be cool if they set it up to where if someone wanted to keep a particular animal they could purchase it for the cost of having the animal treated for internal and external parasites, being micro-chipped, along with like $25. towards the project.
The snakes collected could also be skinned and tanned, and sold as novelties to fund the project as well.

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## MasonC2K

The Burms in the "wild" of Florida need to be killed or otherwise extracted. Not only are they an invasive species, they are a destructive invasive species. We literally have 1000's of invasive species in the US but few of them are destructive. 

Household rats are invasive. They are not indegenous. They came on ships from Europe. I don't see anyone wanting rats in there house (unless as a pet or snake food of course).

Feral pigs can be and are shot on site. They absolutely destroy farmland.

In Australia, Cane Toads are killed on site. They are poisonous to local wildlife.

And heaven forbid someones pet cat or dog gets loose. They might end up getting euthanized at the local pound. 

Feral Burms loose in FL swamps are killing the local wildlfe and competing with other predators. So if this can be managed then it should. So it's more than just a case of "they don't belong there" or "eww it's a snake! kill it!"

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_djansen_ (07-16-2009)

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## wolfy-hound

For the one poster that suggested the burmese all be rounded up and then sent back to their native land...
That's a grand idea.  All you have to do is..
Collect the snakes..
House all the snakes in individual(or nearly so) humane sized cages for a indeterminate length of time for quarentine.
Test all the snakes individually for parasites and other pathogens, and illnesses.
Transport all the snakes back to a spot in Asia where they are native.
 A. Locate such place that is still wooded, safe for the snakes, not already having a full population of snakes
 B. Ensure that the snakes won't be simply gathered up en masse to be killed and eaten.
 C. Ensure the local population is okay with you bringing in thousands of snakes to be released.

And do all this, in a timely manner, while the state and federal authorities overlook all activities.

Since it will take a LOT of money, I suggest you contact PETA, and have them fund it.  They have millions of dollars to "help" animals, so they should jump right on this plan, footing the bill themselves in the entirity.  


I wouldn't hold your breath for a reply from PETA, but I certainly don't know any other organization that would have the funding available for such a project.

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## Denial

Whatever they have to do to get the snakes out of florida I support. I dont think they will ever actually remove them all but hey then can try. But even if florida never had a burm population there would still eventually be laws coming up that threaten our hobby because there are keepers that do not keep there animals right. 

I do not think burms should be there it is bad for the ecosystem but so are humans look at what we have done to florida and every other state. We are the worst thing that could  happen to any ecosystem!

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## djansen

what are they going to do with all the burms they kill?

I wonder if burm tastes very good? maybe we can feed them to the homeless.

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## Raptor

Well, you can skin them and ship them to people interested in doing taxidermy, you can send them bodies to vet colleges for people who are interested in specializing in reptiles (which in the long run would help us out since there needs to be more reptile vets).

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## BGdyl

> what are they going to do with all the burms they kill?
> 
> I wonder if burm tastes very good? maybe we can feed them to the homeless.


LMAO i was about to say the same thing  :ROFL:

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## tonkatoyman

> Well, you can skin them and ship them to people interested in doing taxidermy, you can send them bodies to vet colleges for people who are interested in specializing in reptiles (which in the long run would help us out since there needs to be more reptile vets).


The vet college idea is brilliant.  :Salute:  :Salute:  
The one area no one has discussed is prevention in the future. I believe that the reptile community "Thats us" can go allong way in gaining respect in the country by stepping up to the plate with self regulated preventive measures such as but not limited to:
1. tag every "giant" sold and register the tag. 
2. Ask states to leavy heavy fines for the owners of animals found in the wild based on the tag. The fine could go to cover the expense of removal and relocation of the animal.
There are other ideas out there but theses are the ones I have heard kicked around.

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## Skiploder

> ok....i guess i understand the fear of the pythons by florida people...but umm...gators? wtf? why are they not killing them? i would imagine a gator being more dangerous than a damned burmese.


Because alligators are native...............

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## Freakie_frog

> Because alligators are native...............


That and they are.. Many states now, including MS, have alligator hunts that are overseen by the Wildlife Game and Fish Dept. They take blood samples measurements and all kinds of info from the harvested animals. And its not cheap to do either they only allow about 20 people a year to take 2 gators each and the tags cost hundreds to get.

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## Skiploder

> I am not saying I have the answer. Honestly to answer that question I would need to think it over and get mroe information about the area and what resources were avilable and what alternatives there are to killing them. But considering the man who is pushing this hunt is the same who is trying to ban them I doubt all that was done but *shrug*. I just think it is sad that us humans have to go into an animals home and kill it out of fear.



It's not their home.  They are an invasive species.  I think it's sad that Florida is now home to large populations of introduced species.

"Because as long as individuals are allowed to acquire these exotic animals, they will continue to be abandoned outdoors and attack humans," *PETA said* in a statement obtained by FOXNews.com. "These animals have ended up in Florida through no fault of their own, and they should be dealt with in the most humane way possible."

According to the article, PETA is making they claim they are attacking humans.

At what point does sacrificing native species make sense so that you can feel good about not killing invasive ones?

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## mainbutter

> I'm sorry I support an organized hunt. These are feral animals that's existence in the wild threatens my ability to keep my business. I say kill them all and then FL wont have a damn thing to complain about..


Agreed.

I support hunting as a sport.  If you can make hunting into an activity that also improves the environment, then that's fantastic.

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## mainbutter

> ok....i guess i understand the fear of the pythons by florida people...but umm...gators? wtf? why are they not killing them? i would imagine a gator being more dangerous than a damned burmese.


Florida already has laws in place that require the removal and extermination of alligators that exceed.. 4 feet? 5 feet? I think it's 4....   If they are in close proximity to humans.

Sanibel Island was the last place in Florida that did not allow alligator extermination.  Then a woman got attacked by a very large gator and that changed.

Either way, I agree that alligators are more dangerous than burms (though still pretty harmless if you're not an idiot around their territory).  As I understand it there have been no recorded attacks on people EVER from released burms.

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## Freakie_frog

> Agreed.
> 
> I support hunting as a sport.  If you can make hunting into an activity that also improves the environment, then that's fantastic.


I mean name a redneck that wouldn't pay 250.00 to bag one of these "giant Pythons that are taking over the world" LOL. I mean with a 15+ foot snake thats a lot of boots and hat bands. I'm not trying to be cruel but people need to open their eyes to the fact that one of two things is going to happen 

1: They have hunts and kill all the feral snakes and we get to keep on going with our hobby.

2: They ban your pets and then have hunts and kill all the feral snakes. 

We as a community need to stand behind any solution that allows us to keep our snakes and that doesn't involve a ban. 

PETA is screaming about this not because they care about the feral snakes but rather because its a solution that doesn't end exotic pet ownership and they can't stand the idea of that. 

Lets get behind these hunts and show law makers that while we love snakes we also want to see the Florida issue resolved in any manner that doesn't involve taking our pets and our business' away. Even if it means hunting them. It may be hard to stomach for some but its time we put our big boy pants on and see this for what it is, a great NON BAN solution to the driving problem that is giving these laws ground to stand on. You remove the feral snakes and then there is no reason to ban them. You may even see Florida residents being able to keep them again.

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_jsmorphs2_ (07-16-2009),_Mike Cavanaugh_ (07-17-2009)

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## aaramire

So just because its not a cute little ball python that you keep in a rack in your house, means its life isnt valuable? I mean I get it, its a means to an end, something needs to be done about the wild population, and we need to keep our hobby going.. etc etc, but come on.... the snakes are being talked about like they are slithering to FL on their own and taking over, and obviously thats not the case. While it may not be practical to try to remove them any other way, I think a general respect for life would be appreciated.

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## Freakie_frog

> So just because its not a cute little ball python that you keep in a rack in your house, means its life isnt valuable? I mean I get it, its a means to an end, something needs to be done about the wild population, and we need to keep our hobby going.. etc etc, but come on.... the snakes are being talked about like they are slithering to FL on their own and taking over, and obviously thats not the case. While it may not be practical to try to remove them any other way, I think a general respect for life would be appreciated.


I have a great respect for life. But you said it your self 


> it may not be practical to try to remove them any other way


A general respect for life means I don't have to like the solution. It does however mean that as a rational human being I understand that life presents us with hard choices and at times we must choose the lesser of the two evils. While it may suck on 40 different levels but while we wishing on a falling star for a better solution law makers are writing laws that takes your pets out of your hands. Personally I don't care if they hunt them or fly them first class to Club Med I want them GONE. As long as they exist in the wild my passion and love for keeping these animals is at risk as is yours.




> the snakes are being talked about like they are slithering to FL on their own and taking over, and obviously thats not the case.


I know that and you know that but the people that make the final decision don't.

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_Mike Cavanaugh_ (07-17-2009)

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## Zoomie

I know I may get flak for this but alot of your ideas on supporting the hunt actually make sense to me now. So I do have to say after careful reconsideration I was hasty with my first opinion. Hunting like deer and bear and such seems alright as I hunt from time to time so I realized I am being an idiot for screaming about this. Just made me upset to see the idiot that is trying to get the ban going on getting free press for himself for the bill.

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## aaramire

I understand what you are saying Freakie and I know that this is probably the best and most practical option, I just wish there was another way to do it. It makes the sad that these animals, many of whom have probably never come into contact with people at all, have to be killed. And I wonder if that will really even solve the problem, or will Bill Nelson/PETA find another reason to try to ban our pets?

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## Freakie_frog

> I understand what you are saying Freakie and I know that this is probably the best and most practical option, I just wish there was another way to do it. It makes the sad that these animals, many of whom have probably never come into contact with people at all, have to be killed. And I wonder if that will really even solve the problem, or will Bill Nelson/PETA find another reason to try to ban our pets?


I wish there was a better way also I really do. How do I know that this is a good step for us? Because its a solution that PETA is against. That tells me they are scared. If they truly cared about local wildlife they'd be all for it. I can assure you that PETA spends millions of dollars and every hour of every day trying to take your pets from you so this fight isn't over for them. 

Bill Nelson my be supporting the ban now but once the problem is fixed we have more leverage. Ever heard the saying about giving someone enough rope. He just offered to let us tie the knot.

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## aaramire

That makes sense, and I hope that this will be the end of the problem, although I am sure we as keepers will always have to deal with this sort of issue popping up in our hobby. Hopefully we can remain strong as a community and fight whatever comes our way.

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## Midwest Morphs

I am all open for a hunt, as long as they do something with them besides just dispose of the animals. I also believe for everyone on here that thinks the hunt is the most inhumane thing that can be done is because it is a species that you have more of an interest into so you take it a little more to heart. 

Right now off our coasts is a fish that is an invasive species to our waters; the Lionfish is killing and clearing out reefs all over the Florida and Bahamas waters and moving more and more north up the east coast. Now no one is up in a tizzy that they have scheduled hunts for this fish. However, they also along with the hunts normally teach people how to remove the poisonous spines and properly cook the fish.

They like the invasive snakes in Florida yes were put there by human error or idiocy, hurricanes etc. but we have to be able to control something that gets out and has the ability to spread more and more. If something does not have any predators to stop it, and they can keep growing and populating, there comes a point where we have to think its time to stop it before it can really start effecting our way of life.
Just my  :Two cents:

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_Mike Cavanaugh_ (07-17-2009)

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## wolfy-hound

> I know I may get flak for this but alot of your ideas on supporting the hunt actually make sense to me now. So I do have to say after careful reconsideration I was hasty with my first opinion. Hunting like deer and bear and such seems alright as I hunt from time to time so I realized I am being an idiot for screaming about this. Just made me upset to see the idiot that is trying to get the ban going on getting free press for himself for the bill.


There's nothing wrong with changing your opinion.  Sometimes I think one way, but after hearing arguments against my opinion, I change my mind.  New facts get brought up, or we think things over more, or realize a issue may be more or less involved than we first thought.

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## wolfy-hound

> The vet college idea is brilliant.  
> The one area no one has discussed is prevention in the future. I believe that the reptile community "Thats us" can go allong way in gaining respect in the country by stepping up to the plate with self regulated preventive measures such as but not limited to:
> 1. tag every "giant" sold and register the tag. 
> 2. Ask states to leavy heavy fines for the owners of animals found in the wild based on the tag. The fine could go to cover the expense of removal and relocation of the animal.
> There are other ideas out there but theses are the ones I have heard kicked around.


In florida this is already law.  All giants(burm, retic, african rock, and anacondas, in addition to nile monitors) must be microchipped as soon as they reach a 1 inch diameter(you can't microchip unless the animal is a certain size).
The microchips are registered, the same as a dog microchip(same company usually).  This way all giants that are captured loose can be identified(supposedly).  All sales of snakes over the size should also be chipped.

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## Mike Cavanaugh

> In florida this is already law.  All giants(burm, retic, african rock, and anacondas, in addition to nile monitors) must be microchipped as soon as they reach a 1 inch diameter(you can't microchip unless the animal is a certain size).
> The microchips are registered, the same as a dog microchip(same company usually).  This way all giants that are captured loose can be identified(supposedly).  All sales of snakes over the size should also be chipped.


Problem with this is that it is absolutely, totally, and completey not followed.  I Know a whole lot of people that own big snakes in florida that would have absolutely no idea what you are talking about...

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## wolfy-hound

If you know them, why don't they know it yet?

I'm not saying that it's followed, or that it's completely enforced.  I'm answering the person that said a law should be made to do it, and it's already been done.  

Some people with giants HAVE been inspected, and told the rules.  No, not everyone, but it hasn't been in place that long.

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