# Ball Pythons > BP Breeding >  Beginings of a new morph.

## HCC MORPHS

A few moths ago we purchased what looked to us to a good " dinker project". A male ball python with insane blushing and an almost full dorsal blush. He was mated to a normal female, in hope he proved out to be genetic. The paring produced 5 eggs ( 4 normal and 1 boob.)

  Day 50 we slit them open, the 4 viable eggs contained what looked like to be 3 ( 1.2 ) morphs and 1 ( 0.1) normal. The boob egg although almost fully developed didn't make it. 

 Day 55 the snakes emerged from the egg.. We got 3 morphs all displaying the same characteristics as the sire..  Near to full dorsal pattern and dorsal blush and a normal which also displays the same characteristics. 

 sire:


off-spring:

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## Coleslaw007

Oooooooo congrats!!!!!

So......how much for a baby? lol

They look almost clown-like, my favoritiest morph of all time

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## Domepiece

Cool, looks to be pastel :Good Job:

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_bad-one_ (05-13-2012),_Brandon Osborne_ (05-12-2012),_heathers*bps_ (05-13-2012),_meowmeowkazoo_ (05-13-2012),_Slim_ (05-14-2012),_snakecharmer3638_ (05-14-2012),_tcutting_ (05-16-2012)

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## AK907

> Cool, looks to be pastel


That is what I see too. A low quality pastel with a lot of blushing. We have some friends with a pastel that looks almost identical to the sire. Congrats!  :Good Job:

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## Valentine Pirate

Gorgeous babies! That blushing is killer, very pastel like

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## HCC MORPHS

> That is what I see too. A low quality pastel with a lot of blushing. We have some friends with a pastel that looks almost identical to the sire. Congrats!


We weren't sure of his genetics when we purchased him, and although he dose resemble a pastel i would hardly concider him a " low quality " morph. We managed to 1. beat the normal to morph ratio and 2. proved him to not only be a morph but reproduce himself almost perfectly.

We where a little bummed out when the "boob" egg didn't make it but it was also a morph. The total count was 4 morphs and 1 normal!! The photo taken was in their first hour out of the egg. Color and blush still have to come in with the 1st shed.

Thank you for the comments will keep posting as they mature.

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_Rage Beard Reptiles_ (05-13-2012)

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## Slim

Welcome to BP.net!

What color are your Dinker male's eyes?

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## HCC MORPHS

> Oooooooo congrats!!!!!
> 
> So......how much for a baby? lol
> 
> They look almost clown-like, my favoritiest morph of all time


The sire dose have some clown like features, had us wondering for a day or two if he wasn't a clown mix but the was ruled out due to the lack of the indicative clown head pattern.

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## Slim

> ruled out due to the lack of the indicative clown head pattern.


That, and the fact that this "morph" seems to be a Co-Dom...

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_AJs Snake House_ (05-13-2012),_meowmeowkazoo_ (05-13-2012),_Tempestas_ (05-12-2012)

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## AK907

> We weren't sure of his genetics when we purchased him, and although he dose resemble a pastel i would hardly concider him a " low quality " morph. We managed to 1. beat the normal to morph ratio and 2. proved him to not only be a morph but reproduce himself almost perfectly.


He is a good looking boy, don't get me wrong, but if he is indeed a pastel, his colors leave quite a bit to be desired and not what I would look for in a pastel. His blushing is insane, though. If you have a girl I would hold one back and breed her back to him. That should confirm his genetics. You hit the odds too getting 75% morphs. That is always nice, but unfortunately its just luck of the draw. Can't wait to see these guys once they shed. Keep us updated.  :Good Job:

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_meowmeowkazoo_ (05-13-2012)

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## HCC MORPHS

> Welcome to BP.net!
> 
> What color are your Dinker male's eyes?


His eyes are a  honey color around the pupil and a greenish circumference.

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## HCC MORPHS

Pastels like all morphs do come in a rage of patterns and class ratings. We have a few pastel and pastel mixes in our collection. This guy stands out not due to the blush or the similarities or lack there of with the pastel allele. He was odd from the start and that oddness is what drove us to tinker. 

   He is definitely genetic, co- dom or dominant will take a while to prove out, But as of 8am this morning our 2013 season just got a wrench thrown into it lol..will be paring him up with some different morph's to see what we produce.

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## sho220

Looks like a Pastel black back....and the black back looks genetic since it was passed on to the offspring.  And I know the in thing is to call 99.9% of all Pastels low quality, but I'd breed that guy in a heartbeat.  That's a smoking snake. Congrats!  :Good Job:

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_AGoldReptiles_ (05-13-2012),_Anya_ (05-12-2012),_bad-one_ (05-13-2012),_jben_ (05-13-2012),_LotsaBalls_ (05-12-2012),_MarkieJ_ (05-13-2012)

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## zach_24_90

I like to call a spade a spade.. Or in this case a pastel a pastel... Male looks like a browned pastel with nice blushing, and the offspring look pastel in every way. Congrats on the good odds.

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_meowmeowkazoo_ (05-13-2012),_Slim_ (05-12-2012)

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## HCC MORPHS

> Looks like a Pastel black back....and the black back looks genetic since it was passed on to the offspring.  And I know the in thing is to call 99.9% of all Pastels low quality, but I'd breed that guy in a heartbeat.  That's a smoking snake. Congrats!


"the in thing", i like that one, i might name it that lol.. we dint blink at breeding him nor are we next season to see what he produced.. thanks for the support!

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## John1982

I'm seeing blackback pastel too, very nice sire and babies, congrats!

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## Stewart_Reptiles

I hate to rain on your parade here sorry but there is nothing new, it's a black back pastel congrats on the babies though.  :Good Job:

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_bad-one_ (05-13-2012),_heathers*bps_ (05-13-2012),_jben_ (05-13-2012),_jsmorphs2_ (05-13-2012),_meowmeowkazoo_ (05-13-2012),_Slim_ (05-12-2012)

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## Slim

After seeing a close up of his eyes, I say what you have is not a new morph, but another take on one of the oldest ones.  He looks like a Pastel to me...maybe a new, darker, less yellow line of Pastel, but Pastel just the same.

Good luck with you efforts.

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## Meltdown Morphs

Maybe the Blackback part of it is the 'new stuff', proving out  a new genetic line of blackback is never a bad thing,  but it was obviously a pastel to begin with, so thats nothing new unless it was a CH or WC pastel,  and even then that's not an entirely 'new morph', just another line of an already established morph.Its all still fun to dink with tho.

My guess is that  the dad is already the 'super' form of  that particular black back, cause all the babies are blackbacks  to some degree even the normal, but  they don't have his extreme blushing. Or you could have just  killed the odds completely and lucked out on all blackback babies.  :Razz:

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## Stewart_Reptiles

> Maybe the Blackback part of it is the 'new stuff',


Black backs are not new either, it's a good on the OP's part to prove that the black back he is working with is genetic however neither black backs or pastels are new morphs which is the title of the thread.

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_jsmorphs2_ (05-13-2012),_Slim_ (05-12-2012)

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## Slim

OP, just out of curiosity, how did you come by this male?

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## Meltdown Morphs

Thats exactly what I said In my post , I didn't say blackback was a 'new morph', but it was new line. 'New' can still apply to  additional lines within an already established morph.

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## Foschi Exotic Serpents

I'm seeing Pastel too. Can we get some full body belly shots of them? 


<---Signature--->
Snakes, Jeeps, Dragons, Nature, & Knives.. Makes my world go-round!

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## HCC MORPHS

when greg graziani or some other big shot proves out a new line whether it be a different strand of a proven allele, there is a line around the corner waiting to shake their hands or sniff their boxers lol.. (  :Rage:  rant)

i love the comments both bad and good, the good drive people to tinker with new or old strands while the skeptical also drives, but the drive is to prove wrong.

the fact that it might be of the pastel allele is obvious, the fact that unlike most pastels whos offspring have some random pastel pattern,  his off spring seem to duplicate his pattern  and that is also obvious.

now weather its a new morph to me or to you is left to personal perspective. 

he was purchased from one of the many social media site and as far as i know he is cb, not from some big fancy breeder or imported from a far far away land.  :Wink: 

belly shot of the babies as soon as i go back to the shop i will snap some and post.

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## Slim

> he was purchased from one of the many social media site and as far as i know he is cb, not from some big fancy breeder or imported from a far far away land.


 :Confused:  WTFO???  Facebook and Twitter sell snakes now???

When one of the big shot breeders makes an anouncement about a new morph, or a new line of an old morph, it's usually not a low grade version of something that's been in the hobby since the late '90s.  Like I said before, good luck with this effort, just don't expect any one to be snorting your shorts for proving out an interesting looking Pastel Dinker.

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_luvmyballs_ (05-15-2012),_meowmeowkazoo_ (05-13-2012),_Rawbbeh_ (05-16-2012)

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## alittleFREE

Very pretty snake regardless and some lovely babies.

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## HCC MORPHS

> WTFO???  Facebook and Twitter sell snakes now???
> 
> When one of the big shot breeders makes an anouncement about a new morph, or a new line of an old morph, it's usually not a low grade version of something that's been in the hobby since the late '90s.  Like I said before, good luck with this effort, just don't expect any one to be snorting your shorts for proving out an interesting looking Pastel Dinker.


lmao thanks for your opinion, with it and 8$ i can get a cup of coffee at star bucks, and "anouncement" is spelled announcement.

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## elbee

I think the sire is gorgeous. I have a pastel from Garrick Demeyer that looks very similar to him. Even Garrick said he didn't have bright colors as a baby and he totally browned out, but I would in no way call him a "low quaility" pastel. His blushing is insane, just like your male's. I'm a sucker for blushing, even if they lose their yellow. He looks pastel to me and I bet he will make some awesome supers. Have the babies shed? I'd love to see more pics

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## HCC MORPHS

> I think the sire is gorgeous. I have a pastel from Garrick Demeyer that looks very similar to him. Even Garrick said he didn't have bright colors as a baby and he totally browned out, but I would in no way call him a "low quaility" pastel. His blushing is insane, just like your male's. I'm a sucker for blushing, even if they lose their yellow. He looks pastel to me and I bet he will make some awesome supers. Have the babies shed? I'd love to see more pics


  no not as of yet they actually came out of the egg about 10 hrs ago. =)
the picture of the dad is a bad one taken on a brown surface.. i will post natural light photos.

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## Tempestas

> lmao thanks for your opinion, with it and 8$ i can get a cup of coffee at star bucks, and "anouncement" is spelled announcement.


Dude you seem miffed at finding out your new morph is actually a morph thats been around the block a few times, What you have is a Black Back Pastel nothing more nothing less hence why the back is so blushed out. Its a low quality ( on colour ) pastel, Your going the wrong way about it with your attitude. Sorry but do not nit pick with peoples spellings because you don't like their opinions. If you don't want to hear negative comments then best thing to do is don't post about it. 

If you want your boxers to be sniffed then I suggest you become one of those 'big' shots you mentioned. 

They do look nice and surely healthy hatchlings is what its all about, I have potentially something new but I have had negative comments about it and I just take it on the chin EVERYONE is entitled to their opinion.

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_CLSpider_ (05-14-2012),DooLittle (05-12-2012),h00blah (05-12-2012),_heathers*bps_ (05-13-2012),_jsmorphs2_ (05-13-2012),_luvmyballs_ (05-15-2012),_meowmeowkazoo_ (05-13-2012),_Rawbbeh_ (05-16-2012),_Slim_ (05-12-2012)

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## elbee

Oh sorry, I didn't pay attention to the date of the tread. Lol I just got excited about new babies :Embarassed:

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## Rob

> lmao thanks for your opinion, with it and 8$ i can get a cup of coffee at star bucks, and "anouncement" is spelled announcement.


Really picking on people's spelling? 
Also this "new morph" looks like a low grade pastel to me.

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_Slim_ (05-12-2012)

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## cmack91

> he was purchased from one of the many social media site and as far as i know he is cb, not from some big fancy breeder or imported from a far far away land.


Where exactly did you get him from? Some random guy? Do you know at all what the pairing was?




> lmao thanks for your opinion, with it and 8$ i can get a cup of coffee at star bucks, and "anouncement" is spelled announcement.


And comments like this aren't really helping your case, especially when your not using capitol letters, and your missing comma's.

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## HCC MORPHS

> If you want your boxers to be sniffed then I suggest you become one of those 'big' shots you mentioned.


lmao now that is priceless!! none is miffed at any particular part of the thread, and negative comments are fuel for creativity and is always welcome, but at the same time deserves a response.

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## sho220

> And comments like this aren't really helping your case, especially when *your* not using capitol letters, and *your* missing comma's.


It's "you're" not "your"...

Just thought I'd pile on...

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_heathers*bps_ (05-13-2012),masonhall (05-14-2012),_Rawbbeh_ (05-16-2012),_Rob_ (05-12-2012)

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## Domepiece

> lmao thanks for your opinion, with it and 8$ i can get a cup of coffee at star bucks, and "anouncement" is spelled announcement.


I really wouldnt be pointing out spelling errors, youve made several in your posts yourself. By the way offspring is one word. and its whether not weather unless you are trying to talk about the weather.

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## cmack91

> It's "you're" not "your"...
> 
> Just thought I'd pile on...


 Exactly!

Woops (did i spell that right? lol)

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## Tempestas

> lmao now that is priceless!! none is miffed at any particular part of the thread, and negative comments are fuel for creativity and is always welcome, but at the same time deserves a response.


You seem it dude, You obviously thought people would think its something new and to be honest you seem rather disappointed that people think its just a pastel black back.

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_Slim_ (05-14-2012)

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## sho220

> Exactly!
> 
> Woops (did i spell that right? lol)


No...it's whoops...sheesh... :Very Happy:

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_Slim_ (05-12-2012)

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## cmack91

> No...it's whoops...sheesh...


 :ROFL:

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## HCC MORPHS

> Where exactly did you get him from? Some random guy? Do you know at all what the pairing was?


it didn't matter what the previous paring was, it looked genetic and i took the gamble, and i was right its genetic.

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## cmack91

> it didn't matter what the previous paring was, it looked genetic and i took the gamble, and i was right its genetic.


Did it look genetic because one of the parents is a pastel?

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_moonlightgdess_ (05-15-2012),_Slim_ (05-12-2012)

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## HCC MORPHS

> You seem it dude, You obviously thought people would think its something new and to be honest you seem rather disappointed that people think its just a pastel black back.


that's what this site is for, to learn and be critiqued and if it indeed is a pastel black back, then they are the best darn pastel black backs i ever produced, but until proven other wise by me and not the general consensus, my opinion as to it being what i say it is, is all that matters. 

but for some narrow minded individuals who assume they have a phd in herpetology and are experts in recognizing the subtle nuances between the allele's or are the leading authority on which morphs are considered to "be new", just because they have 1.0 beardie, and 1.0 lesser, rubs me the wrong way.

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## HCC MORPHS

> Did it look genetic because one of the parents is a pastel?


i got him from Craigslist as a part of a package deal. Some one was getting out of the hobby and i bought his stock. got as much info as i could from him and that was it. He in turn got most of his snakes from the same place i got his.

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## C&H Exotic Morphs

> i got him from Craigslist as a part of a package deal. Some one was getting out of the hobby and i bought his stock. got as much info as i could from him and that was it. He in turn got most of his snakes from the same place i got his.


Wait so you got him off of craigslist from a guy who had gotten the same male off of craigslist originally!?  And you *REALLY* think it is some "new" morph? :Confused:

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_heathers*bps_ (05-13-2012),_meowmeowkazoo_ (05-13-2012),_Rawbbeh_ (05-16-2012),_Slim_ (05-14-2012)

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## Royal Hijinx

I think it is neat and all, but I agree it is likely a genetic Black Back Pastel. Great blushing and pattern, but poor color retention.

Anything is possible, but the idea that you picked up some new Inc-Dom morph in a random Craigslist pickup is very slim.  But hey, people do find Picasso's at yard sales.

I would not get bent out of shape if the consensus does not agree with you, but keep in mind the combined experience of the consensus can be measured in decades.

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_Slim_ (05-12-2012)

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## Tempestas

> that's what this site is for, to learn and be critiqued and if it indeed is a pastel black back, then they are the best darn pastel black backs i ever produced, but until proven other wise by me and not the general consensus, my opinion as to it being what i say it is, is all that matters. 
> 
> but for some narrow minded individuals who assume they have a phd in herpetology and are experts in recognizing the subtle nuances between the allele's or are the leading authority on which morphs are considered to "be new", just because they have 1.0 beardie, and 1.0 lesser, rubs me the wrong way.



Exactly it is for what you say but why pick out someones spelling ? That is wrong just because you didn't agree with what they said. 

I am pretty certain a few people on here get fed up of people rubbing them the wrong way too but they don't go attacking their spelling. Its a bit harsh calling these people narrow minded too all because they offered their opinions. I'm sorry but your coming across very uptight.

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## Stewart_Reptiles

> but for some *narrow minded individuals* who assume they have a phd in herpetology and are experts in recognizing the subtle nuances between the allele's or are the leading authority on which morphs are considered to "be new", just because they have 1.0 beardie, and 1.0 lesser, rubs me the wrong way.


Ouch that hurts   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

Sorry you did not hear "oh you are so lucky, never seen anything quite like this, love the new morph can't wait to invest in that project" ....can't always hear what you want to hear sadly.

Maybe you should email Kevin or Ralph and see what they think about it because around here obviously what do people know about balls?  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

Good luck with your project can't wait to see those Black Back Super Pastels in the future  :Good Job:

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DooLittle (05-12-2012),_Emilio_ (05-15-2012),_Slim_ (05-12-2012)

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## Tempestas

> Wait so you got him off of craigslist from a guy who had gotten the same male off of craigslist originally!?  And you *REALLY* think it is some "new" morph?





> I think it is neat and all, but I agree it is likely a genetic Black Back Pastel. Great blushing and pattern, but poor color retention.
> 
> Anything is possible, but the idea that you picked up some new Inc-Dom morph in a random Craigslist pickup is very slim.  But hey, people do find Picasso's at yard sales.
> 
> I would not get bent out of shape if the consensus does not agree with you, but keep in mind the combined experience of the consensus can be measured in decades.


Strange things do happen guys  :Wink:  I bought this guy from a Reptile Shop, 

You can clearly tell he's normal  :Wink:

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## Slim

Wow, I head out for a training ride and cook up a little pasta for dinner, and see what happens  :Very Happy: 




> lmao thanks for your opinion, with it and 8$ i can get a cup of coffee at star bucks, and "anouncement" is spelled announcement.


I sincerely do appreciate your correction of my spelling error, as that is a personal pet peeve of mine as well.  

It does not, however, change the fact that the "new" morph you've proven out, is in fact, and old morph that's been proven many times before.  But, thumbs up on the spelling thinggy  :Good Job: 





> And comments like this aren't really helping your case, especially when your not using capitol letters, and your missing comma's.


 :ROFL:  :ROFL: 





> it didn't matter what the previous paring was, it looked genetic and i took the gamble, and i was right its genetic.


This morph was proven genetic quite some time ago...it wasn't much of a gamble...




> i got him from Craigslist as a part of a package deal. Some one was getting out of the hobby and i bought his stock. got as much info as i could from him and that was it. He in turn got most of his snakes from the same place i got his.


 :Omg:   :I'm slow:   :Stupid me: 

And, BTW, I do not, nor have I ever, owned a bearded dragon  :Wink:

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## BPro927

Those look like some great snakes! I agree with the clown like traits, but co-Dom! :-)

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## Jerhart

Nice [Black] Pastel.

They have been around for a while though...

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## Mike41793

Looks black back pastel to me. It looks like 1 of the pastel babies ( the one all the way to the left in the pic) got the black back part too. Im not seeing it in the others though. Hopefully that one on the left is a 0.1 so you can raise it up and breed it back to the sire. 
On a side note: no need to be a grammar nazi dude. Were all friends here and no one is trying to pick on you. People are allowed to disagree with you. If you want your rights to freedom of speech taken away go live in North Korea lol  :Surprised: 
Whatever he is, that sire is cool looking. Nice find for c-list imo!  :Good Job:

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## MarkS

I'll probably go with the majority and say it's a pastel, however I've also been around long enough to remember that in the past I've also seen 'just another pastel' turn out to be the vanilla, or a 'dull pastel' to be a new line of fire, and even 'another line of pastel' to be the enchi.

 I'll just nod my head and say nice snake, congratulations on the babies.    :Very Happy:

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## DooLittle

Ok, so join date 5/12, said I got snake a "few months ago", wait for qt, wait for  snake to lay plus eggs to hatch, = more than a few months.  Plus come on here and start hacking on people.....hmmmm.... "Who's that tromping on my bridge????"

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_luvmyballs_ (05-15-2012)

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## MrLang

Congrats on it being genetic.

You spelled a word wrong in your post title (and several other places since) and then called out a veteran member for a mistake? To be the best at something means being able to take criticism and learn from the people who have come before you. Obviously these guys are capable and experienced in IDing morphs. Take the thanks on proving it out and consider it a win.

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## Shadera

Dang.  Here the big guys are chasing new morph combos and importing possible new morphs to spend years trying to prove out, when all they have to do is hang out on craigslist and new morphs are falling out of the sky.  Boy, are they gonna be angry ...

Congrats on the babies.  But it looks like you have a lot to learn.  It's not all about alleles.

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_heathers*bps_ (05-13-2012),_meowmeowkazoo_ (05-13-2012),_Rawbbeh_ (05-16-2012),_Slim_ (05-13-2012),_Tempestas_ (05-13-2012)

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## interloc

I'm not much of an antagonist but anyone who is saying black pastel is wrong. They look nothing like the morph black pastel. They are too bright. Also the people saying that they are black back pastels I feel are missing something. The sire is both BLACK BACK and PASTEL looking. That's 2 different morphs. Perhaps the OP stumbled upon a "morph" that has both built into one snake. If it was indeed a 2 morph animal, the odds gods were very nice to him. They way I see it, if it is a black back pastel (2 morphs) there would be some normal black backs and some pastels in the clutch. 

I think the clutch is awesome and to help you prove them to be something, get a black pastel and a pastel and breed the same "new morph" snake to both. That clutch should be fairly convincing on what this "morph" is. 

Also how morphs happens is RANDOM CHANCE. The sire is very subtle if you don't know ball pythons. Perhaps the person who hatched him out in the first place thought he was a normal. Then the OP proves there is something going on. Technically you could breed 2 normals and get a banana. Very unlikely but possible. 

I think some of us will agree that more breedings need to be done to learn what it is. Perhaps this thread is why some breeders don't release info on new "morphs" this early. All the back and forth banter and nay sayers. 

I like the animal and I think there is something there. Good luck with this project. I hope it proves to be something special for ya! Cheers. 


Sent from my poo fone using Tapatalk

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Annageckos (05-14-2012),Christopher De Leon (05-13-2012)

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## John1982

> I'm not much of an antagonist but anyone who is saying black pastel is wrong. They look nothing like the morph black pastel. They are too bright. Also the people saying that they are black back pastels I feel are missing something. The sire is both BLACK BACK and PASTEL looking. That's 2 different morphs. Perhaps the OP stumbled upon a "morph" that has both built into one snake. If it was indeed a 2 morph animal, the odds gods were very nice to him. They way I see it, if it is a black back pastel (2 morphs) there would be some normal black backs and some pastels in the clutch. 
> 
> I think the clutch is awesome and to help you prove them to be something, get a black pastel and a pastel and breed the same "new morph" snake to both. That clutch should be fairly convincing on what this "morph" is. 
> 
> Also how morphs happens is RANDOM CHANCE. The sire is very subtle if you don't know ball pythons. Perhaps the person who hatched him out in the first place thought he was a normal. Then the OP proves there is something going on. Technically you could breed 2 normals and get a banana. Very unlikely but possible.


1) Don't think anybody said it looked like a black pastel. 
2) How does breeding 2 normals produce a dominate morph? I mean, sure you could pop out another mutation but what are the odds of the same morph randomly mutating twice?

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## interloc

> 1) Don't think anybody said it looked like a black pastel. 
> 2) How does breeding 2 normals produce a dominate morph? I mean, sure you could pop out another mutation but what are the odds of the same morph randomly mutating twice?


True. I read back through the thread and I think my brain melted black back into just black. So I read black pastel. Woops. :p. But take a look at coral glow and banana. Or butter and lesser. And the desert story. 2 different breeders got 2 different deserts and realized they had the same morph as each other. Morphs just happen sometimes. It's what keep us all looking for dinkers. Also look up the blue ghost if u haven't seen it. Just showed up out of he blue (pun intended). I say cut the OP some slack and see what he can do with the snakes. 


Sent from my poo fone using Tapatalk

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## Lupe

Even if he is a "low" grade pastel, he (or one of the hatchlings) would be very welcome at my house! I could see some beautiful black pewter babies being made by them...  :Wink:

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## fishboyUK

Nice blackback pastel.

Certainly not a bad example, just a bad picture.

But likely not a new morph (or new line).

Just an established line from unknown origin (since it was CB)

Unless you manage to create some splendid new super from the blackback gene whcih while a nice dinking project is unlikely.

Didn't know what line my first pastel was, but that didn't make it a new morph/line.

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## sho220

> 1) Don't think anybody said it looked like a black pastel.


See post #52...

----------


## MrLang

> I think some of us will agree that more breedings need to be done to learn what it is. Perhaps this thread is why some breeders don't release info on new "morphs" this early. All the back and forth banter and nay sayers. 
> 
> I like the animal and I think there is something there. Good luck with this project. I hope it proves to be something special for ya! Cheers.


Well said. Don't take the criticism personally.

----------


## zach_24_90

is it just me or has there been a TON of craziness around here lately surrounding all these so called "pastels or not pastels" haha this is crazy... its a pastel.. its NOT a new morph.. but by all means lets keep it up this thread is very entertaining haha

----------

_Slim_ (05-13-2012)

----------


## sho220

> is it just me or has there been a TON of craziness around here lately surrounding all these so called "pastels or not pastels" haha this is crazy... its a pastel.. its NOT a new morph.. but by all means lets keep it up this thread is very entertaining haha


Also been a lot of odd "is it worth it?" posts...

----------

_heathers*bps_ (05-13-2012),_Mike41793_ (05-13-2012),_Slim_ (05-13-2012),_zach_24_90_ (05-13-2012)

----------


## HCC MORPHS

to each his own, ill re-hash this thread in a few years and ill remember to jack up the nay sayers prices and ware clean shorts.

to those of you who showed some support ill post some more pictures in a bit. It's mothers day people, take your wives out for breakfast and call your mommas!!!!

----------


## Slim

> ill re-hash this thread in a few years and ill remember to jack up the nay sayers prices and ware clean shorts.


Keep hope alive!  BTW, I know where you can get some Desert Females, should you ever want to start working on that _new_ morph...

----------

_zach_24_90_ (05-13-2012)

----------


## DemmBalls

How's it a new morph, when you said yourself, you thought it was CB?  New morph equals WC.  No need to jack the prices up....$100 at any show and I could come home with a new morph like yours.

P.s.  I wouldn't have a problem with this thread if it weren't for the way you conduct yourself.  Not productive at all.

----------


## sho220

> No need to jack the prices up....


I may be wrong, but I think that may have been sarcasm...

----------


## zach_24_90

> Keep hope alive!  BTW, I know where you can get some Desert Females, should you ever want to start working on that _new_ morph...


haha i wish i could thank you like 100 times for that post lol this thread is getting like  :Eyepopping:  :Blahblah:

----------


## Tempestas

> to each his own, ill re-hash this thread in a few years and ill remember to jack up the nay sayers prices and ware clean shorts.
> 
> to those of you who showed some support ill post some more pictures in a bit. It's mothers day people, take your wives out for breakfast and call your mommas!!!!


Dude seriously you have nothing new just something nice which is already proven. Which is great because you have produced healthy hatchlings  :Smile:  

Not mothers day here though already been and gone lol, Good luck with your project.

----------


## Royal Hijinx

> I say cut the OP some slack and see what he can do with the snakes.


That would be fine if the OP could accept what anyone else thinks and conduct themselves like an adult, not throw a tantrum because the majority sees something else.

For the OP, there are really only 3 things that will help you here:

1. Better attitude
2. Better pictures
3. Breeding it out

----------

_Anya_ (05-13-2012),DooLittle (05-13-2012),_heathers*bps_ (05-13-2012),_luvmyballs_ (05-15-2012),_Slim_ (05-13-2012)

----------


## snakesRkewl

I think we all dream of the day we find a new morph off of craigslist  :Very Happy:

----------

_Anya_ (05-13-2012),_C&H Exotic Morphs_ (05-13-2012),_cmack91_ (05-13-2012),_heathers*bps_ (05-13-2012),_luvmyballs_ (05-15-2012),_meowmeowkazoo_ (05-13-2012),_moonlightgdess_ (05-15-2012),_Shadera_ (05-13-2012),_Slim_ (05-13-2012),_Tempestas_ (05-13-2012)

----------


## John1982

> See post #52...


I saw it, it looked like an alternate way of writing blackback, I can see how it might confuse some.

----------


## SlitherinSisters

I would call him/them black back pastels, they aren't new morph. Definitely a great project that can really enhance other morphs.

----------


## HCC MORPHS

> How's it a new morph, when you said yourself, you thought it was CB?  New morph equals WC.


before you try to pass judgement on others you should do some research. napalm,lemon pastel and orange dream ring a bell? if not, they are all offspring of cb morphs, proven to be a new gene arising from an already established one.

p.s.and if it wasn't for ignorant people like yourself i wouldn't have issues on this board.

----------


## Chuckels

> p.s.and if it wasn't for ignorant people like yourself i wouldn't have issues on this board.


You know....you DON'T have to post here. You obviously have a problem with people giving you their opinions, so maybe you should just close out this thread, and move on. You were the first person to get defensive, people just told you what is completely obvious, it's a BB Pastel. Simple as that.

Trey

----------


## HCC MORPHS

your on time out!! lmao

ok so i took advantage of the nice weather today and snapped some new photos.

sire


off-spring





set 2 of off-spring

----------


## Christopher De Leon

I think this thread has become rather childish and unprofessional, and extremly ridiculous. 

After reading all 8 pages so far...i dont see where the OP had an attitude UNTIL some of you started replying snide  and acting like know-it-alls with your "opinions". Now, i know SOME of you are professionals and very experienced in this hobby...however, the vast majority here are amateurs like myself. Yes, everyone is entiled to there opinion but I (personally) dont think its fair for anyone to claim they can (positively) make a 100% correct ID from the horrible pics provided thus far.

OP, im lovin those babies! No matter what they really are.

C'mon guys, stop bickering. Its not that serious, this is supposed to be fun for all of us.

----------

4Ballz (05-13-2012),Annageckos (05-14-2012),_ball python 22_ (05-13-2012),_ball-nut_ (05-14-2012),_CLSpider_ (05-14-2012),HCC MORPHS (05-13-2012),_Lupe_ (05-14-2012),_moonlightgdess_ (05-15-2012),_pigfat_ (05-15-2012),_Sama_ (05-15-2012),_Soterios_ (05-13-2012),_Vasiliki_ (05-15-2012),_WarriorPrincess90_ (05-14-2012)

----------


## sho220

> ok so i took advantage of the nice weather today and snapped some new photos.


Killer looking babies...

----------

HCC MORPHS (05-13-2012)

----------


## John1982

Much better pics, thanks for sharing.  :Good Job:

----------

HCC MORPHS (05-13-2012)

----------


## meowmeowkazoo

Beautiful snakes. Big congrats on finding a blackback pastel on Craigslist of all places. Especially if it was being sold as a normal.  :Good Job:

----------


## Foschi Exotic Serpents

They are adorable babies and I do like the looks of the father. Speaking from experience, so I hope you don't get offended, I'd put money on the fact that the father is a pastel and the lighter babies are pastels. That isn't a bad thing at all. You did stumble on a genetic black back pastel. Every one of the pastel babies looks to have inherited that gene. Genetic black backs will not always produce a continuous black back pattern in every baby it passes the gene on to but it should always be obvious which ones possess the gene. 

There are a couple genetic black backs which were proven to be a separate co-dom morph and produce pretty cool super forms. Like the black velvet which produces the white lace in its super form. If I were you, I'd hold back a female and breed back to the father in 2 years to see if you have one of these morphs. A regular genetic black back doesn't have a super form. 

Those babies will loose the yellow and pink coloration with each shed but the blushing should remain prominent everywhere except the head due to the fathers influence. 







Snakes, Jeeps, Dragons, Nature, & Knives.. Makes my world go-round!

----------


## bubblz

> Beautiful snakes. Big congrats on finding a blackback pastel on Craigslist of all places. Especially if it was being sold as a normal.


_Ditto, I saw this ad on kingsnake today and thought of this thread, look familiar?

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=32&de=923037_

----------

HCC MORPHS (05-13-2012)

----------


## HCC MORPHS

> _Ditto, I saw this ad on kingsnake today and thought of this thread, look familiar?
> 
> http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=32&de=923037_


interesting, definitely worth perusing the possibility.

----------


## HCC MORPHS

> They are adorable babies and I do like the looks of the father. Speaking from experience, so I hope you don't get offended, I'd put money on the fact that the father is a pastel and the lighter babies are pastels. That isn't a bad thing at all. You did stumble on a genetic black back pastel. Every one of the pastel babies looks to have inherited that gene. Genetic black backs will not always produce a continuous black back pattern in every baby it passes the gene on to but it should always be obvious which ones possess the gene. 
> 
> There are a couple genetic black backs which were proven to be a separate co-dom morph and produce pretty cool super forms. Like the black velvet which produces the white lace in its super form. If I were you, I'd hold back a female and breed back to the father in 2 years to see if you have one of these morphs. A regular genetic black back doesn't have a super form. 
> 
> Those babies will loose the yellow and pink coloration with each shed but the blushing should remain prominent everywhere except the head due to the fathers influence. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


when we got him we had an idea of what he might be, but then again we weren't 100%. still aren't actually, but there are some avenues still to explore and yes future breeding is in order. its possible that the sire is a super form, might be het g-stripe. the normal offspring has some odd belly tracks u never know.. fortunately all the offspring appear to be female when sexed. going to pair him with a spider this season to see =).

thanks for the constructive advise.

----------


## Slim

> p.s.and if it wasn't for ignorant people like yourself i wouldn't have issues on this board.


Dude, if you think you're not getting a fair shake on this Forum and are being picked on, I sincerely invite you to join the Bush League Breeders Club and re-post this thread over there.  

If you think you're having issues on this board, try your attitude over there.  They will drop 57 pounds of crap in your 3 pound "new morph" bag in about 5 seconds.  But, let me know before you go over.  I want to watch the fun  :Good Job: 

But don't worry, when they crush your googlies over there, in a much less famliy friendly manner than you've found on BP.net, you can always come back to the fold.

----------

_Clint Bundy_ (05-14-2012),_cmack91_ (05-13-2012),DooLittle (05-14-2012),_Driver_ (05-14-2012),_joe23_ (05-19-2012),_luvmyballs_ (05-15-2012),_Rawbbeh_ (05-16-2012),_Rob_ (05-14-2012),_Royal Hijinx_ (05-13-2012),_Shadera_ (05-13-2012),_Tempestas_ (05-16-2012)

----------


## interloc

> _Ditto, I saw this ad on kingsnake today and thought of this thread, look familiar?
> 
> http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=32&de=923037_


Good sleuthing Sherlock! I would say that you may be on to something there. That raises another question for me tho. Does that mean another "het" have a marker? A black back could be het genetic stripe? I love these questions. It's what keeps the whole hobby so interesting. 


Sent from my poo fone using Tapatalk

----------


## bubblz

_I don't think the fact that it's a het has anything to do with it. I just saw the post earlier today and thought of this thread. Because it's practically identical to the Ops male. Which points to what most people have already said (nicely or not) black back pastel. Genetic or not breed him again to another female to squash any doubt or questions._

----------


## Soterios

I love all the 'experts' in here telling this guy what his snake is.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 
Especially people talking about the importance of being forum 'veterans'. Can't be an expert without your internet ten-year. 

Hope it proves to be something cool. If not, great looking snake anyways.

----------

Christopher De Leon (05-13-2012)

----------


## Slim

> I love all the 'experts' in here telling this guy what his snake is.


No one has said his snake and it's off spring aren't cool.  But, he came on here and presented a Pastel Black Back as a _new_ morph, which it clearly is not, and then got Signal 20 uptight when that fact was pointed out to him.

If you put onions on my hamburger and tell me it's cheese, I do not have to be an 'expert' to tell you it's wrong.

----------

_heathers*bps_ (05-13-2012),_luvmyballs_ (05-15-2012),_Rob_ (05-14-2012)

----------


## Jerhart

"ten-year."

----------

_luvmyballs_ (05-15-2012)

----------


## Soterios

> "ten-year."


Can't help that I didn't notice an auto correct for the word tenure.

----------


## cmack91

The fact that you got a snake off of cl and proved it out to be genetic without knowing what it is is aeesome, congrats. But that doesny change the fact that it looks like a million (sarcastly) other pastels we've seen, with or without the BB. Ftom the pictures you have shown of the one clutch you have prodiced, the "BB" and the "pastel", obviously arent genetic together, and you just got lucky with the odds gods. With that being said, until we see something that doesnt look exactly like a ton of other snakes that we know exactly what they are, alot of peoples minds wont change from the black back pastel idea.

Whether or not were right, congrats on some nice looking babies. I personally wouldnt mind having the 4th one pictured in the first set of hatchling pics.

----------


## HCC MORPHS

> Good sleuthing Sherlock! I would say that you may be on to something there. That raises another question for me tho. Does that mean another "het" have a marker? A black back could be het genetic stripe? I love these questions. It's what keeps the whole hobby so interesting. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my poo fone using Tapatalk


amen to that!! research, research never ends but makes you just a bit more interested. that would be nice to of have stumbled across a genetic black back het g-stripe without knowing it.

found this on the web if interested.
http://www.australianaddiction.com/BallGS.html

----------


## HCC MORPHS

> I love all the 'experts' in here telling this guy what his snake is.


 thank you, you hit the nail on the head with that statement, the snake was purchased without knowing what it might be, regardless of what it looks like. i put the time, effort and money into proving what it was. like countless of other people who take on dinkerer's ( just made that word up also by the way) hope to do. to me until proven other wise, by me it is a new morph even if its just in my camp.

the point of the original post was for some constructive input, not for the "experts" to rip my snake or me apart with comments like, low grade pastel etc..ect.., so of course im gonna go on the defensive!

it doesn't matter what it is, they are nice snakes an will produce and if it is the new holy grail hopefully the haters  have 10 grand to spend, if not it keeps me entertained lol..

"conforming to the views of the masses makes you a follower, thinking outside the box makes you an innovator." ( and made that up also)

----------


## Jerhart

> thank you, you hit the nail on the head with that statement, the snake was purchased without knowing what it might be, regardless of what it looks like. i put the time, effort and money into proving what it was. like countless of other people who take on dinkerer's ( just made that word up also by the way) hope to do. to me until proven other wise, by me it is a new morph even if its just in my camp.
> 
> the point of the original post was for some constructive input, not for the "experts" to rip my snake or me apart with comments like, low grade pastel etc..ect.., so of course im gonna go on the defensive!
> 
> it doesn't matter what it is, they are nice snakes an will produce and if it is the new holy grail hopefully the haters  have 10 grand to spend, if not it keeps me entertained lol..
> 
> "conforming to the views of the masses makes you a follower, thinking outside the box makes you an innovator." ( and made that up also)


Pure gold in this one.

----------

Christopher De Leon (05-13-2012),_Slim_ (05-13-2012)

----------


## HCC MORPHS

> I personally wouldnt mind having the 4th one pictured in the first set of hatchling pics.


the 4th (bottom) one is a normal =)

----------


## cmack91

> the 4th (bottom) one is a normal =)


Maybe I miss cointed, the fifth pic down.

----------


## HCC MORPHS

lol might as well keep it interesting since the thread was ruined along time ago.

----------


## Slim

> the snake was purchased without knowing what it might be, regardless of what it looks like.


_You_ purchased the snake not knowing what it was.  That does not make the rest of us who _do_ know what it is idiots.  How many people does it take telling you the same thing before you drop this pride of authorship?






> by me it is a new morph even if its just in my camp.


Your camp is the one place that it is a new morph, I'll give you that  :Good Job:

----------

_Rawbbeh_ (05-16-2012),_Shadera_ (05-13-2012)

----------


## HCC MORPHS

> Maybe I miss cointed, the fifth pic down.


i see what you mean was looking in the wrong spot, thanks. i didn't mind hatching any of them and would of payed for either one.

----------


## Shadera

No offense to staff here because it's no fault of theirs, but -

Why do so many that hang out here have so much trouble spotting pastels?   :ROFL: 

And now it's het genetic stripe too?   :sploosh: 

Shoot.  Outta popcorn.  *tear*

----------

_Slim_ (05-14-2012)

----------


## Slim

> the thread was ruined along time ago.


Can you please point to the post # where that happened  :Confused:

----------

_cmack91_ (05-14-2012)

----------


## HCC MORPHS

> _You_ purchased the snake not knowing what it was.  That does not make the rest of us who _do_ know what it is idiots.  How many people does it take telling you the same thing before you drop this pride of authorship?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your camp is the one place that it is a new morph, I'll give you that


no one stated you where an idiot, but you do come off as 1/4 jerk, 1/4 know it all, 1/4 arrogant and 1/4 _something else_.. hey but that's just my expert opinion.. 

and if you put  onions on a burger and tell me its cheese, it still wont change the fact that your, well your just you buddy. 

the pride was dropped a long time ago, now im just pointing out that your a low grade human, with bad social skills and  napoleon complex.

----------


## cmack91

> Can you please point to the post # where that happened


X2, I find this thread vety interesting, not ruined at all.

----------


## HCC MORPHS

> Can you please point to the post # where that happened


right about here. give or take an "expert"



> After seeing a close up of his eyes, I say what you have is not a new morph, but another take on one of the oldest ones.  He looks like a Pastel to me...maybe a new, darker, less yellow line of Pastel, but Pastel just the same.
> 
> Good luck with you efforts.

----------


## cmack91

> now im just pointing out that your a low grade human, with bad social skills and  napoleon complex.


There is absolutly no need for words like this.

----------


## Slim

> no one stated you where an idiot, but you do come off as 1/4 jerk, 1/4 know it all, 1/4 arrogant and 1/4 _something else_.. hey but that's just my expert opinion.. 
> 
> and if you put  onions on a burger and tell me its cheese, it still wont change the fact that your, well your just you buddy. 
> 
> the pride was dropped a long time ago, now im just pointing out that your a low grade human, with bad social skills and  napoleon complex.


See, now we're getting somewhere!  An open dialogue is the best form of communication!   :ROFL:  :ROFL: 

Low Grade Human...Classic  :Very Happy: 

But I'm the one with bad social skills BWAHHHHHWAHHHH 

Oh man, this is true gold  :Wink:

----------


## RobNJ

> Why do so many that hang out here have so much trouble spotting pastels?


Possibly thread worthy all to its own...seriously...and that goes far beyond the misidentification of a pastel by the OP in this thread alone.

----------


## HCC MORPHS

> See, now we're getting somewhere!  An open dialogue is the best form of communication!  
> 
> Low Grade Human...Classic 
> 
> But I'm the one with bad social skills BWAHHHHHWAHHHH 
> 
> Oh man, this is true gold


lol still love ya tho.. thanks for the input.

----------


## Slim

Are all these animals on your website yours?  If not, I don't see any photo credits.  I do see some water marks that are certainly not yours...

http://www.hccmorphs.com/index.html

EDIT:  I also archived a copy of the website in case you decide to do some late night web page work to cover your tracks.

----------


## Driver

> thank you, you hit the nail on the head with that statement, the snake was purchased without knowing what it might be, regardless of what it looks like. i put the time, effort and money into proving what it was. like countless of other people who take on dinkerer's ( just made that word up also by the way) hope to do. to me until proven other wise, by me it is a new morph even if its just in my camp.
> 
> the point of the original post was for some constructive input, not for the "experts" to rip my snake or me apart with comments like, low grade pastel etc..ect.., so of course im gonna go on the defensive!
> 
> it doesn't matter what it is, they are nice snakes an will produce and if it is the new holy grail hopefully the haters  have 10 grand to spend, if not it keeps me entertained lol..
> 
> "conforming to the views of the masses makes you a follower, thinking outside the box makes you an innovator." ( and made that up also)


I'm sorry but the part that worries me is that you purchased the snake not knowing what it might be. How can you not look at the snake and not think browed out pastel?  If I saw that posted on Craigslist as a normal I wouldn't look at it and think "new morph". I would look at it and think "browed out pastel" and that the person selling it doesn't know what they are doing.

----------


## Shadera

This one's for his supporters.   :Good Job:   There's more, but I would hope this is enough for the hard-headed to see that some of us just have the communities' best interest in mind when we go after a troll.  People are always complaining about all the trolls and scumbags in the hobby, but when a few of us call them out we want to be all unicorn farts and hugs.

Shot off the guy's front page slideshow:
http://www.hccmorphs.com/uploads/1/0...56885_orig.jpg

(Screenshot of the image in case he removes it)


NERD's original photo:
http://newenglandreptile.com/nerd/in...-axanthic.html
(middle picture, top row)

Surely just an honest mistake, right?  If we close our eyes, maybe it will go away ...   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------

_C&H Exotic Morphs_ (05-14-2012),_CLSpider_ (05-15-2012),_cmack91_ (05-15-2012),DooLittle (05-14-2012),_heathers*bps_ (05-15-2012),_luvmyballs_ (05-15-2012),_pigfat_ (05-15-2012),_Slim_ (05-14-2012),snakesRkewl (05-14-2012),_Vasiliki_ (05-15-2012),_wwmjkd_ (05-14-2012)

----------


## EmberBall

HCC, let's just pretend this is an email, me emailing you.  Nobody else will see it.  Here is what I would say, edited of course.

You are out of your mind!
You bought a collection of Balls, but you cannot identify a Pastel?  You have about the worst grammar and spelling I have seen, don't capitalize words, and you have the gaul to call people out on their spelling.  Payed?  Really!?!
Let me give you an analogy of what you have done.  You have driven a Chevette up to a Ferrari club meeting and said you have a barn find Ferrari.  When the educated club members tell you you have an old Chevy, you get defensive, and tell them they do not know what they are talking about.
Your adult snake looks like a Pastel, nothing more and nothing less.  You have been told this repeatedly, by 10 or more different people.  Do you think they are all calling and emailing eachother, and have some sinister plan to tell you your snake is just a Pastel so they can email you later and buy one of the babies for cheap, and then say, "Ha, sucker, your new morph is a cool new morph, and we suckered you into selling a baby for cheap?"
You sound angry and dillusional.  We all have dinkers, most look like something nobody has proven genetic.  You cannot call a Pastel a Dinker.  Now, if you do not think your Pastel is a Pastel, and think that one orange scale here or there makes it worth keeping back a female baby, to breed to the father, GO FOR IT!  
But the way you got defensive, the way you called people out about their spelling when yours is attrocious, is not going to win you any friends.  
Please nit pick my post and call me out on any spelling mistakes, I do not care.  I am not an English major, English student, nor am I an English teacher.  
My advise to you, get out of reptiles and start breeding some dinker albino mouse you find on CL.  There is no such thing as an Albino mouse now, so you could start breeding a new morph of mouse, and make millions.

Dave

----------

coldthumb (05-14-2012),DooLittle (05-14-2012),_luvmyballs_ (05-15-2012),_Royal Hijinx_ (05-14-2012),_Slim_ (05-14-2012)

----------


## zach_24_90

Guys guys..... Everybody needs to calm down.... Like seriously I can only laugh so much here.. My thanks button is getting worn out here. I keep going through and wanting to multi quote like every other post and agree with everybody haha.. And to the OP... Hey guy... Look we weren't (I know your grammar skills are lacking so I'll tell you that's past tense) trying to make fun of you... We dont do that here. But then you started poking the hornets nest... You had to tell all of us we were wrong when it's clearly just a pastel. We are nice people, we help each other out because the last thing this passion we call herping needs is fighting amongst ourselves... But when you have your head shoved so far up your pastels vent.. It makes it IMPOSSIBLE to get along with you. We tried to be nice, we tried to help you out but when you blow is off you better bend over cause here comes the 12 o'clock train to reality. I mean you really think your a regular Albert Einstein over here making up words and and new ideas... Not to mention you seem to be a morph genius with your new stuff and what not. A word of advice... DROP IT.

----------

DooLittle (05-14-2012),_luvmyballs_ (05-15-2012),_Slim_ (05-14-2012)

----------


## zach_24_90

But on a side note to the OP... Thank you so much for this thread... It is so much fun to read at 3am when I can't get back to sleep. I mean really who doesn't love a few good late night chuckles haha

----------


## HCC MORPHS

> This one's for his supporters.    There's more, but I would hope this is enough for the hard-headed to see that some of us just have the communities' best interest in mind when we go after a troll.  People are always complaining about all the trolls and scumbags in the hobby, but when a few of us call them out we want to be all unicorn farts and hugs.
> 
> Shot off the guy's front page slideshow:
> http://www.hccmorphs.com/uploads/1/0...56885_orig.jpg
> 
> (Screenshot of the image in case he removes it)
> 
> 
> NERD's original photo:
> ...


Lol this just keeps getting better and better, by the way thanks for the free advertising, if you bother to look there is a disclaimer on my site in regards images belonging to other people, nor am I making claim that said snakes are mine. So again thanks for the publicity. And I accepted the fact that it can possibly be nothing 100 posts ago, your tue ones that can't seem to let it go.

----------


## HCC MORPHS

> Are all these animals on your website yours?  If not, I don't see any photo credits.  I do see some water marks that are certainly not yours...
> 
> http://www.hccmorphs.com/index.html
> 
> EDIT:  I also archived a copy of the website in case you decide to do some late night web page work to cover your tracks.


What's your home address so I can mail you a number one supporter t- shirt ?

----------


## HCC MORPHS

I agree this whole thing is my fault, not for believing, hoping or thinking it might be a new morph but my mistake was posting it on here. I'm gonna drop the thread not because I'm defeated, but because it was taken out of context and driven In a different direction.. See you guys on the board, thanks for the positive and negative input.

----------


## zach_24_90

Oh you know what guys? He's probably right.. We all put other people's snake pictures on our website where we are claiming to breed and sell said snakes and then just expect all the customers to know which images we stole and which ones are genuinely our own... Our mistake guy haha dude the crap you keep coming up with.. I gotta admit.. You have some ( )( ) to bring this crap here and keep coming back for more and more. Your a regular old "big guns" (the regulars know who I'm talking about haha) all your missing is talking about yourself in the 3rd person.

----------

DooLittle (05-14-2012),_luvmyballs_ (05-15-2012),_Slim_ (05-14-2012)

----------


## wwmjkd

> Oh you know what guys? He's probably right.. We all put other people's snake pictures on our website where we are claiming to breed and sell said snakes and then just expect all the customers to know which images we stole and which ones are genuinely our own... Our mistake guy haha dude the crap you keep coming up with.. I gotta admit.. You have some ( )( ) to bring this crap here and keep coming back for more and more. Your a regular old "big guns" (the regulars know who I'm talking about haha) all your missing is talking about yourself in the 3rd person.


I'm not sure I see the parallel. the op is just clinging to his erroneous new morph idea. he's certainly not claiming to be privy to a secret that he refuses to divulge regarding the viability of a certain project. 

the copyright issues should be fixed (I noticed no disclaimer anywhere on the website), and this thread should be laid to rest.

----------


## Slim

HCC if this is the disclaimer you are talking about which is located at the bottom of your morph list page...




> All photos are property of their perspective owner's and used solely for descriptive purposes.HCC MORPHS,its affiliates nor partners claim ownership of such.


Then explain to me how that covers your @ss for stealing and using the photos without permission in the first place?  And, let's talk about the NERD watermarked image that you clearly removed the watermark from?

If you want to pick up your balls and just walk away without fixing this, I urge you to reconsider that course of action.  This community has a looooong memory.  Unless you choose to get out of breeding altogether, you will be called out, and this thread will show up every time you claim a breeding success, post a picture, or try to conduct an internet transaction.  (Ever heard of the BOI?  If not you should ask somebody)

In fact, your best course of action right now, at this very minute, would be to take any photo you don't have permission to use off your web site right now.  Next step would be to take off any textual info that is not your intellectual property (you know what I'm talking about).  Once you have your website cleaned up, you need to come here, fall on your sword and start over again.

Your reputation is not yet beyond repair.  Please take my advice before it becomes so.

----------

DooLittle (05-14-2012),_luvmyballs_ (05-15-2012),sian.kelly (05-22-2016)

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## sho220

> http://www.hccmorphs.com/index.html


Why do so many people in this hobby, who have no idea what the hell they're doing, feel the uncontrollable urge to create a website and become an over-night professional???

Sorry about the off-topic...just a pet peeve of mine...

Let the slap-fight continue... :Smile:

----------

_AGoldReptiles_ (05-14-2012),_DavidMundy_ (05-14-2012),DooLittle (05-14-2012),_heathers*bps_ (05-15-2012),_luvmyballs_ (05-15-2012),_Rob_ (05-14-2012),_Shadera_ (05-14-2012)

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## Rob

> Why do so many people in this hobby, who have no idea what the hell they're doing, feel the uncontrollable urge to create a website and become an over-night professional???


I imagine it's the same reason a lot of guys think buying a tap out shirt makes them a fighter.

----------

_DavidMundy_ (05-14-2012),_heathers*bps_ (05-15-2012),_luvmyballs_ (05-15-2012),_Mike41793_ (05-14-2012),_moonlightgdess_ (05-15-2012),sho220 (05-14-2012),_Slim_ (05-14-2012),tlich (05-15-2012),_Vasiliki_ (05-15-2012)

----------


## sho220

> I imagine it's the same reason a lot of guys think buying a tap out shirt makes them a fighter.


Like this guy... http://jalopnik.com/5907665/this-man...er-mans-wheels

----------

_Rob_ (05-14-2012)

----------


## Rob

> Like this guy... http://jalopnik.com/5907665/this-man...er-mans-wheels


What a POS, too much jersey shore.

----------


## sho220

> What a POS, too much jersey shore.


You mean it's not a natural reaction to punch a guy in the face twice putting him into a coma for complimenting your car's wheels?

----------


## snakesRkewl

> HCC if this is the disclaimer you are talking about which is located at the bottom of your morph list page...
> 
> 
> 
> Then explain to me how that covers your @ss for stealing and using the photos without permission in the first place?  And, let's talk about the NERD watermarked image that you clearly removed the watermark from?
> 
> If you want to pick up your balls and just walk away without fixing this, I urge you to reconsider that course of action.  This community has a looooong memory.  Unless you choose to get out of breeding altogether, you will be called out, and this thread will show up every time you claim a breeding success, post a picture, or try to conduct an internet transaction.  (Ever heard of the BOI?  If not you should ask somebody)
> 
> In fact, your best course of action right now, at this very minute, would be to take any photo you don't have permission to use off your web site right now.  Next step would be to take off any textual info that is not your intellectual property (you know what I'm talking about).  Once you have your website cleaned up, you need to come here, fall on your sword and start over again.
> ...


You are way too kind Slim...If this was a car the op just drove it over the cliff

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_Slim_ (05-14-2012)

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## Shadera

> Lol this just keeps getting better and better, by the way thanks for the free advertising, if you bother to look there is a disclaimer on my site in regards images belonging to other people, nor am I making claim that said snakes are mine. So again thanks for the publicity. And I accepted the fact that it can possibly be nothing 100 posts ago, your tue ones that can't seem to let it go.


And if you had bothered to look on the breeders' sites that you stole those images from, you'd see that most of them have it right out there in plain sight that none of their stuff is to be used without their written permission.  Your tiny fine print doesn't make it okay.

So you're saying you have Kevin's permission to have those few photos of his on your homepage slideshow that you've kindly removed his watermark from?  I looked at each, and they've all had watermarks removed.

There is so much more on that site that's just wrong, from more stolen pictures to outright erroneous care info.  

Know what kind of person removes the watermarks on another breeder's photos?  It sure don't make them the big playa they think they are.  

And I agree, Slim is way too sweet sometimes.  But I still like the guy.   :Wink:

----------

_Slim_ (05-14-2012)

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## Slim

> You are way too kind Slim...If this was a car the op just drove it over the cliff





> And I agree, Slim is way too sweet sometimes.  But I still like the guy.


LOL, I'm just trying to get HCC to do the right thing and explain his actions.  There is a _part_ of me that thinks the guy just has too much thrust and not enough vector, and may not fully understand the implications of what he's done by putting those images on his site.  

I think his next post on this subject, or lack of one, will tell the tale.

----------

_Royal Hijinx_ (05-14-2012),_Shadera_ (05-14-2012)

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## zach_24_90

im gonna go with... hes going to como out and talk about how he is in the right and hes conducted no shady activity.. blah blah blah.. whatever man.. the gig is up at this point.

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## rubenjames

wow what a thread!

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## ball-nut

Just wanna add my 2c,
It's a pastel, sticks out like a sore thumb, it bothers me slightly that someone can't tell that on one so obvious. But....

...I would myself class it as a dinker pastel if it were mine, I'd want to use it to prove out the awesome black back it has. Sure, black backs aren't new but I'd sure look into using one to mix its pattern with another line colour. Imagine putting that blushing on a super that has been made using say a lemon pastel and the original male.
I think it would make a damn sweet firefly too.
It's nice, it will go nicely into other projects but it's not new nor will it ever be.
I think an opportunity for genuine discussion regarding genetics and lineage has been destroyed on this thread, But not at the point the OP thinks, you received a reply telling you you had a different take on the oldest morph, that is not ruining the thread, that is blunt truth of which you don't agree, therefore taking offence and in your eyes ruining the thread for you personally. 
Because of this you became slightly aggressive in you posts and felt you were at war with members who shared the thoughts of the poster.
That is what ruined the thread, failure to accept the advice and likely truth in your genetics.
I wish you well with your project and hope you include the look of that male in a few combos, I'm sure they will be amazing.


Sent from my iPhone 7s using Holotalk

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_Slim_ (05-14-2012)

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## snakecharmer3638

Sorry to tell you this.....  But......

I proved this new morph out last season....   :Good Job: 

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...h-Of-2011-(DUW)

----------

_bad-one_ (05-14-2012),_Daybreaker_ (05-14-2012),_PweEzy_ (05-14-2012),_Rob_ (05-14-2012),_Shadera_ (05-14-2012),_Slim_ (05-14-2012)

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## Homegrownscales

Ouchie, someone showed their butt one this one.  Advice to HCC quick like take those pictures down and tuck your tail between your legs.  I doubt Nerd said "Sure just take our watermark off and slap those up on your site".  No No No.  Kevin would undoutably want anyone looking at that picture or pictures to know those were NERD productions. Taking the time to produce something such as that gorgeous snake gives someone the right to always be credited up front without people having to wonder whos picture or snake that actually is.  (which is why btw they had the watermark on the picture).  Just saying.....
Tuck and run brother.  Ill be surprised if you havent gotten a take my picture down now email yet.   
jmho
Dont poke bears

----------

DooLittle (05-14-2012),_luvmyballs_ (05-15-2012)

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## AMBiEN22

All i have to say is....

When i start selling my ball pythons or make a website to advertise what i have for sale, i will use this thread to know what *NOT* to do.

.... and for that sir, i thank you.

----------

Christopher De Leon (05-15-2012)

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## Rob

> I will use this thread to know what *NOT* to do.


No kidding! It's funny because the site is nicely done and looks professional.........apparently too professional seeing NERDS animals on there. SMH  :Sad:

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## HCC MORPHS

point taken, and for the record you cant take water marks off without ruining the image, that's why the water marks are there and i never claimed the photos or animals where mine any where on my site. i just thought they were nice snakes and perfect examples of the gene's.. 

so, yes i should of known better.

----------


## Slim

I said your next post would tell the tale of you, and it clearly has.  

You need to perform a cranial rectal inversion on your self and stop making excuses.

And, you still have stolen images on your site  :Mad: 

*Post the proof that Kevin gave you permission to use those images!*

When did Kevin give you permission to use this:

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/c...ckillerbee.jpg

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## travis11

> I imagine it's the same reason a lot of guys think buying a tap out shirt makes them a fighter.


 hahahahahaha. i just crapped myself laughing about this. wow that is some funny stuff.

----------


## HCC MORPHS

> i said your next post would tell the tale of you, and it clearly has.  
> 
> You need to perform a cranial rectal inversion on your self and stop making excuses.
> 
> And, you still have stolen images on your site 
> 
> *post the proof that kevin gave you permission to use those images!*
> 
> when did kevin give you permission to use this:
> ...


lmao!!!! Even i laughed , but you don't need to be_ like this_ about it.

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## Slim

Why can't you just admit that you stole those images without permission and take them off your site?  They are clearly not yours to use in the manner in which you are continuing to use them.

----------


## sho220

> lmao!!!! Even i laughed , but you don't need to be like this about it.


This thread has taken a disturbing turn... :Weirdface:

----------


## HerpIsAhobby

15 pages about a black back pastel?  Must of been a slow news day.  After reading every page I felt obligated to say to HCC just take the images off your site and call it a day.  This isn't going to help you or the business get anywhere but grouped together with a bunch of low life scammers and swindlers who have all been run out of the hobby.

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## Mike41793

HCC: i gurantee you wouldnt be name calling if this conversation was taking place in person. Theres no need for that crap on here, its just disrespectful and rude!

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## Mike41793

> This thread has taken a disturbing turn...


Hey i dont judge! Whatever blows your hair back!

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## Jerhart

> lmao!!!! Even i laughed , but you don't need to be like this about it.


Enjoy your vacation.

----------


## Slim

HCC, please tell us what part of this   :Number1:  you do not understand?

All I'm asking for is that you either show your permission, or admit you are violating NERD's copyright by having those images on your site.

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## Royal Hijinx

Slim, a question has been posed on the other board that HCC may be a previous friend of yours...... :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Slim

> Slim, a question has been posed on the other board that HCC may be a previous friend of yours......


HCC may be guilty of stealing intellectual property, but he spells far too well to be the other guy in question  :Wink:

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## HCC MORPHS

[QUOTE=HerpIsAhobby;1826305]15 pages about a black back pastel?  Must of been a slow news day.  After reading every page I felt obligated to say to HCC just take the images off your site and call it a day.  This isn't going to help you or the business get anywhere but grouped together with a bunch of low life scammers and swindlers who have all been run out of the hobby.[/Q]

i agree.

----------


## Slim

> i agree.


Does that mean you will be removing all the images from your site that you do not have permission to use?

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## Stewart_Reptiles

A reminder here, this is a *FAMILY FRIENDLY forum*, now back to your regular programming.  :Good Job:

----------

_heathers*bps_ (05-15-2012),_Mike41793_ (05-14-2012),_Slim_ (05-14-2012),_Soterios_ (05-14-2012)

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## Soterios

> A reminder here, this is a *FAMILY FRIENDLY forum*, now back to your regular programming.


I love that about this place. Thanks for keeping up with everything.

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## HCC MORPHS

> Does that mean you will be removing all the images from your site that you do not have permission to use?


 lmao, you cost me a 2 point infraction. Ill tell you what, as hard headed as i might be, i think i finally met a bull to lock horns with. the person i've learned the most from on this thread is you unfortunately =) , and for that you get some respect, and the issue originally wasn't with you, yours just happened to be the loudest voice, so my apologies.

 im actually taking some natural light photos of my snakes and putting them up.

now maybe if you took that 1/4 % jerk and turned it into 1/4% nice guy we might get along a bit better.

----------


## Mike41793

The 25% jerk is my favorite quarter of slim pie lmao  :Razz:

----------

_cecilbturtle_ (05-15-2012),_CLSpider_ (05-15-2012),_cmack91_ (05-15-2012),DooLittle (05-14-2012),h00blah (05-14-2012),_heathers*bps_ (05-15-2012),_Inarikins_ (05-15-2012),_luvmyballs_ (05-15-2012),_Shadera_ (05-14-2012),_Slim_ (05-14-2012)

----------


## Slim

> lmao, you cost me a 2 point infraction.


Sorry, but you did that one to yourself.

HCC, I don't have a burning desire to lock horns with you, in fact, I would much rather be looking at pictures of everyones new hatchlings and trying to help a new keeper out with a humidity issue.  But, the truth of the matter is that there is right in the world, and there is wrong.  I have a hard time turning my back on a wrong when I personally know  some of the people you have stolen pictures from.

I applaud your efforts to post pictures of _your_ snakes on your site.  But, until you kill the links to the stolen images, it's really an incomplete gesture.

----------

_bad-one_ (05-15-2012),_cecilbturtle_ (05-15-2012),_heathers*bps_ (05-15-2012),_Shadera_ (05-14-2012)

----------


## HCC MORPHS

> The 25% jerk is my favorite quarter of slim pie lmao


LMAO!! i hate to agree with you mike.

----------


## sho220

> But, until you kill the links to the stolen images, it's really an incomplete gesture.


Just when I thought you guys were going to kiss and make up...

----------

_Slim_ (05-14-2012),_Vasiliki_ (05-15-2012)

----------


## HCC MORPHS

> Sorry, but you did that one to yourself.
> 
> HCC, I don't have a burning desire to lock horns with you, in fact, I would much rather be looking at pictures of everyones new hatchlings and trying to help a new keeper out with a humidity issue.  But, the truth of the matter is that there is right in the world, and there is wrong.  I have a hard time turning my back on a wrong when I personally know  some of the people you have stolen pictures from.
> 
> I applaud your efforts to post pictures of _your_ snakes on your site.  But, until you kill the links to the stolen images, it's really an incomplete gesture.



true, but the buck stops there, you want to re org a website make one of your own then you can take off what ever you please.

buy the way.. spoke on the phone  to a few known names in the filed and they both, said what most of you did but in a non derogatory manner.

They are in deed pastel but, genetic black back pastels " blush backs". We did in fact manage to prove that the sire was genetic( most are not ), so the "dinker" pastel did turn out to be genetic, not a new morph but a genetic gem none the least. so the info was appreciated, maybe not in the way it was delivered, but appreciated anyway.

----------


## HCC MORPHS

> Just when I thought you guys were going to kiss and make up...


  too much pride on both parts for that, the curmudgeon way  :Wink:  .. we just agree to disagree lol

----------


## wwmjkd

> true, but the buck stops there, you want to re org a website make one of your own then you can take off what ever you please.
> 
> buy the way.. spoke on the phone  to a few known names in the filed and they both, said what most of you did but in a non derogatory manner.
> 
> They are in deed pastel but, genetic black back pastels " blush backs". We did in fact manage to prove that the sire was genetic( most are not ), so the "dinker" pastel did turn out to be genetic, not a new morph but a genetic gem none the least. so the info was appreciated, maybe not in the way it was delivered, but appreciated anyway.


are you honestly unfamiliar with the offense of copyright infringement or are you deliberately trolling? for the record, I think slim has been beyond accommodating in all his responses.

----------

_Shadera_ (05-14-2012),_Slim_ (05-14-2012)

----------


## Slim

> true, but the buck stops there, you want to re org a website make one of your own then you can take off what ever you please.


 :Wag of the finger: 

By refusing to remove those images, you are stealing.  That makes you a thief.  There is no way to sugar coat it, and no way to make it sound better.  You're actions are no better than if you walked into the NARBC show and took a KillerBee off of NERD's table and walked out the door.

----------

snakesRkewl (05-15-2012)

----------


## Slim

> too much pride on both parts for that, the curmudgeon way  .. we just agree to disagree lol


The difference is, I'm not the one who is driving a rail road spike through my reputation in this community.

----------


## HCC MORPHS

> By refusing to remove those images, you are stealing.  That makes you a thief.  There is no way to sugar coat it, and no way to make it sound better.  You're actions are no better than if you walked into the NARBC show and took a KillerBee off of NERD's table and walked out the door.


nothing like beating a dead horse in the head.. i might be hard headed but not a thief. again, point was taken 4 posts ago.

----------


## Slim

EDIT: Thank you for taking the links down.

EDIT TO THE EDIT:  I'm still able to get to the pics...

http://www.hccmorphs.com/morphs-101.html

P.S. I hope you realize you have morph listed on this page that have _never_ proven to be genetic, right?

----------


## HCC MORPHS

> EDIT: Thank you for taking the links down.


not a problem.. now can we get on with life please....

----------


## Slim

> not a problem.. now can we get on with life please....


I can stil access it on your site.

http://www.hccmorphs.com/morphs-101.html

----------


## Mike41793

> are you honestly unfamiliar with the offense of copyright infringement or are you deliberately trolling? for the record, I think slim has been beyond accommodating in all his responses.


Apperently not... Or maybe he is posting from under the bridge. Who knows?  :Wink:

----------

_luvmyballs_ (05-15-2012)

----------


## Slim

HCC, you need to kill the link at the bottom of this page:

http://www.hccmorphs.com/about-bps.html

----------


## babyknees

> I can stil access it on your site.
> 
> http://www.hccmorphs.com/morphs-101.html


If you want to post info and pictures of these morphs without stealing you should probably just make those all links to the World of Ball Pythons page about each one. Not links to pictures that aren't credited.

----------

HCC MORPHS (05-15-2012),_heathers*bps_ (05-15-2012),_jbean7916_ (05-14-2012),_Slim_ (05-14-2012)

----------


## HCC MORPHS

> HCC, you need to kill the link at the bottom of this page:
> 
> http://www.hccmorphs.com/about-bps.html


This is the part where you get pushy and we disagree again. My sudhestion is leave well alone enough for one day and let me handle my bussiness without some one who I could honestly give to shakes about breathing down my neck.
   I'm removing the info because it is unethical, not because you say so. So give it a rest.

----------


## HCC MORPHS

> Apperently not... Or maybe he is posting from under the bridge. Who knows?


 The jar is actually full, your 2 cents are extra.

----------


## HCC MORPHS

> If you want to post info and pictures of these morphs without stealing you should probably just make those all links to the World of Ball Pythons page about each one. Not links to pictures that aren't credited.


Good idea will look into that option. Thank you.

----------


## BAMReptiles

Haha looks like he got too scared to keep posting on the other forum. But seriously, it's not hard to take down pics or pages man. Just do it already and disappear into the night, hopefully never to be heard from again.  :Good Job:

----------

_Shadera_ (05-15-2012),_Slim_ (05-15-2012)

----------


## HCC MORPHS

> Haha looks like he got too scared to keep posting on the other forum. But seriously, it's not hard to take down pics or pages man. Just do it already and disappear into the night, hopefully never to be heard from again.


Yet more unnecessary chump change.

I'm actually laying this post to rest. Thanks for the help slim.

----------


## Slim

No worries, I'll be waiting to hear from your lawyer.  You have my contact info.

----------


## docturgonzo

Wow what a post. A great example of how nasty forums can actually get.. THe guy shows us some nice pics of nice snakes he's proud to have produced, fair enough they aren't new as he says but to then read 15 pages of attacking each other is embarrassing on all parts. He's done wrong on his site too but to outcast the guy is just not on. We all make mistakes and everyone on here is here to learn. I see to many people being shot down on forums like this nowadays and it's ridiculous .

Any way... Nice albino :Smile:

----------


## Slim

> We all make mistakes and everyone on here is here to learn.


Your are certainly entitled to your take on the situation, but showing such a blasé attitude about the theft of copyrighted material after it was pointed out as a serious issue goes beyond making a simple mistake and leaning from it.

----------

DooLittle (05-15-2012),_heathers*bps_ (05-16-2012),_luvmyballs_ (05-15-2012),_Shadera_ (05-15-2012),snakesRkewl (05-15-2012)

----------


## Homegrownscales

Ya people make mistakes. That though was not a mistake. It was intentional to take another's pictures altered them and placed them on to his website. In my personal opinion that person immediately goes on my do not buy from list. Why? Well because they obviously has little regard for another's years of work. 
I've seen alot of sites pop up That feature others productions on them so that when the sites are visited they look like they are bigger than they really are. To me it just looks like someone trying to make quick sales. 
Whether that was hccs intent. I don't know. Nor am I saying it was. But I've seen it all before. I have a website of my own and I know I pride myself on being a hobbiest breeder that enjoys sharing my animals with the world. But every picture on my site is work of my own and animals I have in my collection. There's one picture actually I have permission to use. But that baby was produced from the parents That I produced. Either way credit is given to the owner. 
Also hcc probably wasnt looking for all the drama. But when you post on a public forum you open yourself and your business to anything. I myself know. I've had to publicly apologize for a comment here or there and tucked my tail bc I was in the wrong. It something all humans have to do at some point let a little humility in. But agian when you participate in a forum if things are on the up and up you don't have to worry About things like that.  Just some .02c


Check out what's new on my website... www.Homegrownscales.com

----------

_heathers*bps_ (05-16-2012),_Rob_ (05-15-2012),_Slim_ (05-15-2012),snakesRkewl (05-15-2012),_Valentine Pirate_ (05-15-2012)

----------


## Chuckels

I've been following this thread since page 1, and here's my reaction...



Anyways, I've just added another person to my "do not buy from" list. Anyone who intentionally steals pictures and removes a watermark is bad juju. I hope he takes the advice and takes his bruises elsewhere. Thanks to Slim for uncovering that. The only thing nowadays that other people can't take away from you is your own integrity, and in my opinion, this guy has none. 

Add my $0.02 to jar #2.

Trey
Sent from my MB865 using Tapatalk 2

----------

_dreese88_ (05-17-2012),snakesRkewl (05-15-2012)

----------


## heylookitsjon

This thread is...
Lord, this threat is amazing. It's like a Train Wreck! I can't stay away.

That being said, the picture used on this page: http://www.hccmorphs.com/about-bps.html is also stolen without credit. It is a photograph by Natural History Photographer John Murphy [website here: http://www.jcmnaturalhistory.com/about.html], though that particular photograph is not on his website anymore. It is a print of his, one that you must buy from John Murphy if you want it for yourself.

Just...shaking my head at this whole nonsense.

----------

_Chuckels_ (05-15-2012)

----------


## Rob

> that particular photograph is not on his website anymore. It is a print of his, one that you must buy from John Murphy if you want it for yourself.


How hard is it to use photos of your own animals? How ashamed of your animals do you have to be to not WANT to show them off?!

----------

_Chuckels_ (05-15-2012),snakesRkewl (05-15-2012)

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## sho220

> How hard is it to use photos of your own animals? How ashamed of your animals do you have to be to not WANT to show them off?!


Well...it actually does take a little effort to get good at taking pics, learning what backgrounds work, how to crop them and stuff like that.  And well...a little effort is just too much to ask for a lot of folks now-a-days...

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_Chuckels_ (05-15-2012)

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## Rob

> Well...it actually does take a little effort to get good at taking pics, learning what backgrounds work, how to crop them and stuff like that.  And well...a little effort is just too much to ask for a lot of folks now-a-days...


Now that you mention it, that does sound awfully time consuming. Hey why go through all that trouble when great looking snakes are just a click away.....lol smh

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_Chuckels_ (05-15-2012)

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## moonlightgdess

Okay so...honest question. If I wanted to build a site for my business and wanted to add an educational section (where it would be CLEARLY labeled as such and not be misleading that they might be my available bps), how would one go about using online material such as pictures to say, "hey check out this fantastic morph by NERD!"? Would a simple credit beneath the photo suffice?

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2

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## travis11

The worst part is he is charging $350 for that "morph". Tried to give him the benefit of the doubt, but that was an epic fail.

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## Slim

> Thanks to Slim for uncovering that.


In all honesty, it was our very own super sleuth Shadera who found his website with all the copyrighted material on it.

But, if HCC is still reading this thread, I want him to continue to focus his lawsuit on me, not Shadera.   :Good Job: 

_Don’t forget, I'm the one who has defamed your character and has cost you money, so stay focused!  Eyes on the prize…every red cent I own, remember _ 

(You guys should see the PMs.  They're a thing of beauty)






> Okay so...honest question. If I wanted to build a site for my business and wanted to add an educational section (where it would be CLEARLY labeled as such and not be misleading that they might be my available bps), how would one go about using online material such as pictures to say, "hey check out this fantastic morph by NERD!"? Would a simple credit beneath the photo suffice?


No it would not.  In NERD's case, his website clearly states that all his images are copyrighted to NERD, and you would need actual permission from NERD to use his images in anyway.  I can only assume others protect their images in a similar fashion.

Having said that, you might be able to hot link to the images on his site without doing anything wrong.  I'm not 100% sure about that.

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## WingedWolfPsion

I know that there are good, legitimate reasons to want to use photos from other sources.  Educational pages are a good example.  This is why I have contributed images of ball pythons, including a few morphs, to Wikimedia Commons.  With nothing more than a small attribution, they're free for anyone to use.  There's a spider, an albino, a female on eggs, a female inverted basking, eggs in an incubator, and more.  I plan to add additional ball python photos in the future, including some images that I will release into the public domain.

They aren't quite as perfect as work by a professional photographer, to say the least...but they can be legally used, unlike the former.

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_moonlightgdess_ (05-15-2012),_Shadera_ (05-15-2012),_Slim_ (05-15-2012)

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## moonlightgdess

I just used NERD as my example, but any owned photo will do. Thanks slim!  :Smile: 

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2

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## Shadera

Oh c'mon Slim, dontcha think we'd make a decent tag team in court?  Don't wanna take your glory though.  LOL

Honest question.  How come it always ends up with the person caught red handed threatening lawsuits?  They realize we know they're full of it, right?  And even if he did manage to make that a reality, does he not realize that a day in court against someone like Slim is gonna turn into the worst day of his life?  Got guts, gotta give him that.  

He's been caught breaking copyright law, quite frankly, and thinks he has a leg to stand on in court for whatever reason.   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

It's crossed the line into sad.

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## Slim

> Oh c'mon Slim, dontcha think we'd make a decent tag team in court?


I think we would make an awesome tag team in court, but I didn't want to drag you into anything  :Very Happy: 

He has promised a law suit, and I sent him my contact info and address so his lawyer can send the papers.  We'll see where he takes it from here.

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_Shadera_ (05-15-2012)

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## Rob

He wants to sue you?
That's like me shooting a guy. You catch me and call me on it, then turn around and say I'm going to sue.

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## Slim

> He wants to sue you?


He has promised that if he can track the loss of even one penny of business back to this thread, he will sue me.

Of course when he sent that PM, I forgot to mention that since I will never buy an animal from him, that I guess he has his proof of lost business, and should sue away....I hate it when you think of a good one after the fact  :Sad:

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DooLittle (05-16-2012),_heathers*bps_ (05-16-2012),_moonlightgdess_ (05-15-2012)

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## moonlightgdess

Are the courts going to use his website as proof of his business? Y'know, the one with all the stolen images?

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2

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_heathers*bps_ (05-16-2012),_Slim_ (05-15-2012)

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## Mike41793

> I just used NERD as my example, but any owned photo will do. Thanks slim! 
> 
> Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2


If you left the watermark on the photo and had a caption that said: Epic Killer Clown produced by Kevin McCurley at NERD then i doubt kevin would mind or it would be illegal. This is a pretty friendly hobby and not everones out to get eachother  :Smile:  

With that said, im no expert so dont take my words as the law lol!!!

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## Rob

> If you left the watermark on the photo and had a caption that said: Epic Killer Clown produced by Kevin McCurley at NERD then i doubt kevin would mind or it would be illegal.


I think your right that Kevin would most likely not care, seeing as it would be free advertising, but Im pretty sure for it to be legal he would need written consent saying its ok to use his photos.

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## Mike41793

HCC you can sue me too if you want. I will never buy from you after the way you have acted in this thread. I also will make sure no one i know buys from you until you really start acting like you belong in this hobby. And right now, you dont. 
OH YEA: and i dont buy from thieves!!! Thieves, liars, cheats, i cant stand any of them...

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_C&H Exotic Morphs_ (05-15-2012),_cecilbturtle_ (05-15-2012),DooLittle (05-15-2012),_heathers*bps_ (05-16-2012),_luvmyballs_ (05-16-2012),_Shadera_ (05-16-2012)

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## Mike41793

> I think your right that Kevin would most likely not care, seeing as it would be free advertising, but Im pretty sure for it to be legal he would need written consent saying its ok to use his photos.


Youre probably right. Hes a pretty chill guy, i cant see him getting angry over the free advertising lol!
 Well unless someone were to remove his watermark and claim the pics as his own. Then he may get mad. Good thing no one does that... Oh wait a minute... Well, this is awkward...

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DooLittle (05-15-2012),_moonlightgdess_ (05-15-2012),_Slim_ (05-15-2012)

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## sho220

> Then he may get mad.


Does HCC even realize he's dealing with SATAN?!?!?

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_Slim_ (05-15-2012)

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## pigfat

This was a great read lol. It got nasty but worth every page of reading lol. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## luvmyballs

Hey slim I don't think he likes you... :Very Happy:

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_Mike41793_ (05-16-2012),_Slim_ (05-16-2012)

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## heathers*bps

I love this thread  :Rolleyes2:

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_Shadera_ (05-16-2012)

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## Chuckels

Since I will not be buying from him, tell him to go ahead and tack on another member for the lawsuit. Let him make this one giant case. I've said this once already, and I'll say it again .... I won't buy from HCC. 

I WANT TO SEE THE PM's ... I love a good comedic read.

Defamation has to be FACTUAL. Opinions don't count. They're like buttholes, we all have them. 

Trey

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_heathers*bps_ (05-16-2012)

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## heylookitsjon

> Since I will not be buying from him, tell him to go ahead and tack on another member for the lawsuit. Let him make this one giant case. I've said this once already, and I'll say it again .... I won't buy from HCC.
> Trey


^^^What he said.

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## Foschi Exotic Serpents

All his lawsuit stuff really wouldn't matter unless he was actually a registered business, under his websites business name, with a tax ID number.. 

After he does all that, he will have to keep business records. Good records, preferably on a computer program with a business format. Records of all purchases of animals, housing, equipment, food supplies, their housing, equipment, and food, receipts, dates, etc.. 

Then records of all sales with all pertinent info. 

Somehow, I just don't think he's that much of a legal business yet. Not enough to have even a toe to stand on. Even IF he had some worthwhile "evidence" of defamation or loss of sales by another.. 


<---Signature--->
Snakes, Jeeps, Dragons, Nature, & Knives.. Makes my world go-round!

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## Homegrownscales

I love that law suits are the first in situations like this. 
It just looks like blah blah blah whine whine I'm butt hurt to me. 


Check out what's new on my website... www.Homegrownscales.com

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DooLittle (05-16-2012)

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## moonlightgdess

Okay, I didn't want to nit pick... but I seriously can't help myself. I cruised this person's website.

(rant)

FFS.

Apostrophe "S" is NOT PLURAL! It's POSSESSIVE! If you don't know that, have someone else proofread for you. I have a really hard time taking anyone seriously if your website isn't correct, regardless of whether or not you're a jerk on here.

So for anyone else in this business who is serious about selling their quality animals, please have someone proofread your site. Please. Or intellectual snobs like myself will just be turned off.

Oh, and keep up to date information (not you HCC, but others). Nothing I hate more than going to a BP seller's (see what I did there? It belongs to the seller, hence the apostrophe) website and seeing info about their "just hatched 2010 babies".

(/rant)

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_DavidMundy_ (05-16-2012)

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## wwmjkd

> Okay, I didn't want to nit pick... but I seriously can't help myself. I cruised this person's website.
> 
> (rant)
> 
> FFS.
> 
> Apostrophe "S" is NOT PLURAL! It's POSSESSIVE! If you don't know that, have someone else proofread for you. I have a really hard time taking anyone seriously if your website isn't correct, regardless of whether or not you're a jerk on here.
> 
> So for anyone else in this business who is serious about selling their quality animals, please have someone proofread your site. Please. Or intellectual snobs like myself will just be turned off.
> ...


imperfect grammar is excusable, infringing another's copyrighted property is not. that combined with HCC's hostile demeanor are the issues here, not the proper use of punctuation.  

I hate to see English maligned as much as the next person, but I've seen spelling and grammar errors on almost every website I've visited, including those whose names I trust. I wouldn't let that be a determining factor for you when making a purchase.

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## moonlightgdess

I believe, and this is just my opinion, if you are a professional and presenting yourself as a business, it behooves you to have a professional appearance. Spell check is included in everything now, including what I'm typing at the moment. Does it keep me from buying from them because of a typo? Not really, I prefer quality snakes over a misspelling. Does it look less than professional? To me, yes, glaring errors in spelling and composition are unprofessional. If HCC had not picked on spelling to begin with, it probably would've just been ignored. I'm not rehashing his attitude here, I think we've covered that. I'm just leaving a message for future site owners and professionals as to what not to do, myself included  :Smile:

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## Mike41793

> All his lawsuit stuff really wouldn't matter unless he was actually a registered business, under his websites business name, with a tax ID number.. 
> 
> After he does all that, he will have to keep business records. Good records, preferably on a computer program with a business format. Records of all purchases of animals, housing, equipment, food supplies, their housing, equipment, and food, receipts, dates, etc.. 
> 
> Then records of all sales with all pertinent info. 
> 
> Somehow, I just don't think he's that much of a legal business yet. Not enough to have even a toe to stand on. Even IF he had some worthwhile "evidence" of defamation or loss of sales by another.. 
> 
> 
> ...


Yea also legit businesses tend not to steal images from other legit businesses lmao...
Thats as bad as stealing someones name basically.

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## Mike41793

> I believe, and this is just my opinion, if you are a professional and presenting yourself as a business, it behooves you to have a professional appearance. Spell check is included in everything now, including what I'm typing at the moment. Does it keep me from buying from them because of a typo? Not really, I prefer quality snakes over a misspelling. Does it look less than professional? To me, yes, glaring errors in spelling and composition are unprofessional. If HCC had not picked on spelling to begin with, it probably would've just been ignored. I'm not rehashing his attitude here, I think we've covered that. I'm just leaving a message for future site owners and professionals as to what not to do, myself included


Nope its not just you, thats the first thing i noticed on the site too, especially after he was nit picking slim here! I wanna know what the Ball Python's are possesive of? What do they own lol???

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## moonlightgdess

> I wanna know what the Ball Python's are possesive of? What do they own lol???


They just own.  :Razz:

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_cmack91_ (05-16-2012)

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## ScubaDiver007

I like the pattern for sure.. Can you take some pics with a bit better light?

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## Stewart_Reptiles

Alright people I believe this thread as run it's course, doubt there is anything more that can be added at this point, anything else that will would be nothing more than 

So that's all for now folks.

As for some interesting question regarding copyrights that were ask in this thread, I will address some of them shortly in a new thread.

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_babyknees_ (05-16-2012),_DavidMundy_ (05-16-2012),dr del (05-16-2012),_Shadera_ (05-16-2012),_Slim_ (05-16-2012)

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