# Other Pythons > General Pythons >  WLP getting tested for Inclusion body disease.

## Awesomethepossum

I wanted to ask here, since I'm trying to get more informed on the disease.


A bit of backstory:
I have a 1-2 year old WC WLP that I've had since March. Got him from a reptile expo, seller held onto him for a month beforehand and treated him for internal parasites. Zero issues for the first 3 months or so. This guy was doing fantastic. Awesome appetite, gentle to handle, active, great sheds, healthy weight, poop, etc. All that good stuff. 

Anyway, around July, he suddenly lost interest in eating and he was hiding more. I thought maybe it was stress, but saw no improvement. I finally started offering live mice and he ate a couple of times. But last week he even refused that. 

I decided to take him to the vet. They drew blood and tube fed him (with some Metronidazole added) so we could collect a fecal to test since he wasn't giving us anything to to with.  Not ideal, but I didn't want to put this off longer since he was starting to lose some weight.

Fast forward to today, vet confirmed that he had hookworm eggs in his stool, and that his WBC count indicated he was fighting an infection. She  voiced concern that he had IBD, but the results for that will take longer. He was prescribed Fortaz injections every 3 days, which I administer myself, and tomorrow I'm bringing him back in to get another dose of treatment for the parasites.


I'm not very familiar with the disease, but I read that pythons tend to express rapid onset with more overt neurological symptoms? I'm sure not all snakes show the same symptoms, but the only observable issue is that he isn't eating and has been hiding more, and obviously is weaker because...well, he hasn't eaten. I'm really hoping that's a good sign, but the vet didn't sound optimistic.

I feel like hookworm can also cause these issues.. I wanted to check with you guys to see if anyone had any knowledge or even personal experience with the disease.  

Thank you

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## Bogertophis

Sorry for your difficulties with this guy.  I sorta doubt it would be IBD (& I have zero personal experience with it but) just based on the common knowledge that it tends to overwhelm pythons rather quickly, & you've had him for quite a while in terms of the timeline I've read that other affected pythons suffered.  It's obvious that he has "some" kind of health issue, but you'll need more tests- & to play "detective" to get to the bottom of it.  You've got guts for taking this guy on, I'll say that.  I hope you get some good answers soon & that there's a "fix" for what ails him.   :Please:  

 Also, a w/c & imported snake will have been exposed to a great many things, & the stress puts them at higher risk for their immune system to be unable to fend off whatever it is.  And it could be more than one thing too- as you already know- he has hookworms + some sort of infection.  But at least you're not seeing neuro symptoms, right?  So I doubt it's IBD, & let's hope whatever it is, it responds to treatment.  

I'd also worry about things like cryptosporidiosis.  Here's a link for that:  https://www.addl.purdue.edu/newslett...r/snakes.shtml

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## Awesomethepossum

> Sorry for your difficulties with this guy.  I sorta doubt it would be IBD (& I have zero personal experience with it but) just based on the common knowledge that it tends to overwhelm pythons rather quickly, & you've had him for quite a while in terms of the timeline I've read that other affected pythons suffered.  It's obvious that he has "some" kind of health issue, but you'll need more tests- & to play "detective" to get to the bottom of it.  You've got guts for taking this guy on, I'll say that.  I hope you get some good answers soon & that there's a "fix" for what ails him.   
> 
>  Also, a w/c & imported snake will have been exposed to a great many things, & the stress puts them at higher risk for their immune system to be unable to fend off whatever it is.  And it could be more than one thing too- as you already know- he has hookworms + some sort of infection.  But at least you're not seeing neuro symptoms, right?  So I doubt it's IBD, & let's hope whatever it is, it responds to treatment.


Thank you, I appreciate your response

They didn't find any respiratory issues, or mouth rot and commented that he looked visually healthy otherwise. Aside from being lean (not emaciated). I told them to do whatever tests they needed to do the day I brought him in, getting it all out of the way instead of stretching it out over multiple visits and putting him through all that.

No neurological or coordination issues. Only other thing is that it seems like his growth rate is slowed, but I feel like a parasite infection (and not eating) would influence that...

I gave him the first round of antibiotics today, and he gave me his first bite, right on my middle finger. He still has a lot of spunk. I hate stressing him out with all this, but my hands are tied and we don't have any other choice. 

Aside from the parasites and infection, I really hope the treatment isn't too much for him. I guess only time will tell

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## Bogertophis

For sure the parasites have an effect- they're stealing his food, & can even cause internal damage or blockages.  So hopefully that's all he's fighting but only time will tell.  I just don't see anything that screams "IBD" to me- but maybe your vet has dealt with a recent case that's haunting her thoughts- so naturally it gets considered anyway.  IBD is everyone's idea of a nightmare, so I think  it springs to mind more often than is justified.   

It's heartbreaking to have a snake start off for several months doing so well, only to have them end up sick & not eating- but don't give up.  I'd do the same thing you are- try to get all the tests at once if you can- to minimize his stress.  If you only just now got your first bite from him, that's pretty good.   :Good Job:   It's for a good cause, anyway, & you're a great owner.  If anyone can get him well, I'd put money on you.  Keep us posted though, okay?  He's in my good thoughts.   :Please:

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_Awesomethepossum_ (09-08-2021)

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## bcr229

Research Associates Lab (RAL) has a "Boid Panel" that tests for multiple viral diseases including IBD.  The panel is $60 and you need to have your vet collect and send off the blood sample so you would pay that to your local vet.  They can also test for crypto but sadly after dealing with that (and dodging a bullet as I only lost the one critter who never cleared QT) she never lost her appetite, just constantly regurgitated what she did eat, I doubt your WLP has it.

RAL's web site is https://www.vetdna.com/test-type/reptiles

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_Awesomethepossum_ (09-08-2021)

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## Bogertophis

> ...They can also test for crypto but sadly after dealing with that (and dodging a bullet as I only lost the one critter who never cleared QT) she never lost her appetite, just constantly regurgitated what she did eat, I doubt your WLP has it...


I sure hope not- I just figured the WLP might not be that far along yet (to be regurgitating).  But that's the symptom (along with the mid-body swelling) that's most typical for crypto, I agree.
Plenty of things to test for & hopefully rule out- keeping good thoughts.  (It sure doesn't sound like IBD though- don't you agree?  No harm testing in case though.)

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## Awesomethepossum

> Research Associates Lab (RAL) has a "Boid Panel" that tests for multiple viral diseases including IBD.  The panel is $60 and you need to have your vet collect and send off the blood sample so you would pay that to your local vet.  They can also test for crypto but sadly after dealing with that (and dodging a bullet as I only lost the one critter who never cleared QT) she never lost her appetite, just constantly regurgitated what she did eat, I doubt your WLP has it.
> 
> RAL's web site is https://www.vetdna.com/test-type/reptiles


I know they did send out a blood sample for testing, I'm not sure how many viruses they were testing or if it was just IBD, but it was $60. They said it could take 3 weeks to get the results. I have to bring this guy in tomorrow, so I can ask them more about the testing

And thank you, I'm sorry to hear about your snake, and I hope you're right 

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## bcr229

If it were crypto you would likely have seen a regurge by now.  Hopefully it's just parasites that can be cleared up with Metronidazole.

Also a side effect of the Metronidazole (aka Flagyl) is that it stimulates the appetite, which is why it's commonly used to help WC reptiles get established.

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## Awesomethepossum

> If it were crypto you would likely have seen a regurge by now.  Hopefully it's just parasites that can be cleared up with Metronidazole.
> 
> Also a side effect of the Metronidazole (aka Flagyl) is that it stimulates the appetite, which is why it's commonly used to help WC reptiles get established.


I just took him back to the vet today, they gave him another dose of dewormer with food. Vet told me his organ function was good, but his white blood count was really high. He was down a few grams, but had a lot more energy.

Again, she isn't really reassuring and said there was a 50/50 chance he has IBD... I asked her about him being consistently like this for a few months now without any escalation in symptoms, or neurological issues and asked if the symptoms would be similar to a parasite infection. She said yes. But again, mentioned his high WBC count. I don't really know much about any of that stuff, but I worry what that would indicate to make her lean towards the disease, as opposed to the body just fighting a parasite infection

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*Bogertophis* (09-09-2021)

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## Bogertophis

I for sure don't understand why she still gives IBD such a high probability- as far as I know, many infections can cause a high WBC in a snake?   :Confused:

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_Awesomethepossum_ (09-09-2021),TofuTofuTofu (09-09-2021)

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## bcr229

> I for sure don't understand why she still gives IBD such a high probability- as far as I know, many infections can cause a high WBC in a snake?


A Google search shows hookworm infestation causes high WBC in a lot of species.

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_Albert Clark_ (03-11-2022),_Awesomethepossum_ (09-09-2021),*Bogertophis* (10-08-2021)

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## Bogertophis

> A Google search shows hookworm infestation causes high WBC in a lot of species.


And since this WLP is known to have hookworms, that's a much better explanation for the high WBC than jumping to assume it has IBD.  Unless there's something more the vet isn't explaining?

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_Albert Clark_ (03-11-2022)

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## Awesomethepossum

> And since this WLP is known to have hookworms, that's a much better explanation for the high WBC than jumping to assume it has IBD.  Unless there's something more the vet isn't explaining?


I'm glad I'm not alone with being confused, it's actually reassuring...but it does make me worry I'm missing something. But she only showed concern for the high WBC. Didn't say anything else from the blood test results was concerning. But I feel like stress would also increase his count as well? It is a stress sensitive species.

 I need to get this guy started back on food. I'm honestly not really sure how he would want to with all of this going on, but I'm hoping the meds will encourage his appetite. They want me to bring him in weekly for tube feedings, but that isn't something I feel comfortable with. Might be a long-shot, but I'm gonna try offering a live mouse tonight.

I'll be on edge until the results come back, but him eating would help ease my nerves some.

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*Bogertophis* (09-09-2021)

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## Awesomethepossum

Just an update, but the results for the test came back negative, which is a huge relief.

Still refusing food...which is fair with everything going on... plus the antibiotic shots every three days.

Considering his current state, I did a tube feeding with today's dose of antibiotics to get some nutrients in him. He's getting his third round of Metronidazole treatment next week, and will be on these antibiotics for another month or so.

 Fingers crossed that everything goes as planned and he gets back on track.

(Pic is a couple of months old. But here he is, begging for more food)



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*Bogertophis* (09-14-2021),_Caitlin_ (09-14-2021),_GoingPostal_ (09-16-2021)

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## Caitlin

He's just beautiful and I am sorry for both of you that he has been having a rough go of it. I'm SO relieved that the tests came back negative. It bothered me that your vet was so focused on a possible IBD diagnosis, but didn't want to confuse things too much with posting here.

You're absolutely right that it isn't at all unusual for a snake to refuse to eat while undergoing antibiotics treatment.

If you do have to tube feed again, you might see if you can get your hands on some Oxbow Critical Care/Carnivore. This was a standard emergency feeding solution we used for birds of prey, snakes, lizards, any pure carnivores and many omnivores when I worked in exotics practices and rescue. It's good stuff and your vet may well have it on hand. If not you can get it on Amazon.

Best of luck to you and keep us updated. I'm just so happy he hasn't been diagnosed with one of the fatal viral disorders; there's real hope that he can get past this and do just fine with you.

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## Bogertophis

He's really so gorgeous!   :Love:   Now to just get that little stinker back to healthy & eating again!   :Good Job:  on the tube-feed.   :Wink:

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## Bogertophis

> ... It bothered me that your vet was so focused on a possible IBD diagnosis.........
> You're absolutely right that it isn't at all unusual for a snake to refuse to eat while undergoing antibiotics treatment....


Same here, that made no sense to me unless there was more (from the vet) that wasn't shared?   :Confused: 

I'm not sure that anything else (besides IBD) was tested for, though?  For sure, antibiotic treatments will put a snake off eating for a while.

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## Awesomethepossum

> He's just beautiful and I am sorry for both of you that he has been having a rough go of it. I'm SO relieved that the tests came back negative. It bothered me that your vet was so focused on a possible IBD diagnosis, but didn't want to confuse things too much with posting here.
> 
> You're absolutely right that it isn't at all unusual for a snake to refuse to eat while undergoing antibiotics treatment.
> 
> If you do have to tube feed again, you might see if you can get your hands on some Oxbow Critical Care/Carnivore. This was a standard emergency feeding solution we used for birds of prey, snakes, lizards, any pure carnivores and many omnivores when I worked in exotics practices and rescue. It's good stuff and your vet may well have it on hand. If not you can get it on Amazon.
> 
> Best of luck to you and keep us updated. I'm just so happy he hasn't been diagnosed with one of the fatal viral disorders; there's real hope that he can get past this and do just fine with you.


Thank you- and yeah, that's actually the stuff I use/used, I'm glad that people recommend it

He's on the antibiotics for another 4 weeks or so. I'm hoping all goes well from here and he picks up an appetite after that



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## Awesomethepossum

> Same here, that made no sense to me unless there was more (from the vet) that wasn't shared?  
> 
> I'm not sure that anything else (besides IBD) was tested for, though?  For sure, antibiotic treatments will put a snake off eating for a while.


I'll be finding out more from the vet during his appointment next week. I definitely have a lot of questions

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## Jamiekerk

Id complete the treatment before feeding again if hes underweight but not dangerously low as antibiotics will kill a infection it will also destroy the helpful bacteria that live in the snake gi tract. Need to keep it as stress free as possible to help its immune system 


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_Awesomethepossum_ (09-15-2021),*bcr229* (09-15-2021),*Bogertophis* (03-11-2022)

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## bcr229

Antibiotics are also hard on the liver/kidneys so my vet recommends not feeding unless the snake is very underweight.

You may also want to pick up some NutriBAC - a probiotic for reptiles - to help re-establish good gut flora once the antibiotics are done.

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_Awesomethepossum_ (09-15-2021),*Bogertophis* (09-15-2021)

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## Awesomethepossum

The vet wanted to either have me bring him in weekly for tube feedings or do it myself at home, since he was still losing some weight from not eating, she said it was important to keep some nutrients in him during this time. I'll definitely ask her about it, since I don't want to do do anything to compromise his recovery

 (I do have Nutribac on hand for post-abtibiotic care though, it's a must have for sure)

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*Bogertophis* (09-15-2021)

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## Awesomethepossum

Just an update, took him to the vet for a 3rd dose of Metronidazole with a feeding. They didn't tell me that the vet was on vacation this week, so I had a vet tech that couldn't answer my questions.

Little guy has lost more weight and is down to 125g from 141g three weeks ago. The loss has been steady. But he also isn't eating, so...

His stool from overnight had a bit of fresh blood in it, I brought it in for them to look at since this is the first time I've seen it. The vet tech was concerned that he wasn't showing improvement with eating and said it's possible the treatments aren't working.

I'm not really sure what expectations are realistic right now, considering this species and all the stress he's being put under, plus these meds he's on. But also whether or not I should be concerned that this isn't going in the right direction. Not sure what's "normal" here, since they're suggesting this is a losing battle based on him not eating and the weight loss, plus the fresh blood in the stool. But I have another appointment for him in a few weeks to reassess.

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*Bogertophis* (09-23-2021)

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## Bogertophis

Very sorry to hear you're not seeing improvements as hoped- & finding blood in the stool is concerning, for sure.  Disappointing that the vet wasn't there either for your appointment.  Getting a snake like this healthy is a gamble about which your vet has been warning you from the start, in case things don't work out.  Vets all have different personalities- as much as we want- even need- to hear optimism, some don't want us to get our hopes too high.  The truth is that it's a "wait & see" that could go either way.  All you can do is the best you can & keep  :Please:  and btw, I'll join you in that.

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_Awesomethepossum_ (09-23-2021)

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## Awesomethepossum

Throwing in some pictures I took after we got back from the vet. He looks like he's due for a shed, been a month since his last one.

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*Bogertophis* (09-23-2021)

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## Bogertophis

Well, he's still gorgeous, even with a little weight loss.

BTW, for anyone following this thread, here's a relevant quick bit about metronidazole:  https://www.reptilesmagazine.com/pro...dazole-flagyl/

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_Awesomethepossum_ (09-23-2021)

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## Awesomethepossum

> Very sorry to hear you're not seeing improvements as hoped- & finding blood in the stool is concerning, for sure.  Disappointing that the vet wasn't there either for your appointment.  Getting a snake like this healthy is a gamble about which your vet has been warning you from the start, in case things don't work out.  Vets all have different personalities- as much as we want- even need- to hear optimism, some don't want us to get our hopes too high.  The truth is that it's a "wait & see" that could go either way.  All you can do is the best you can & keep  and btw, I'll join you in that.


This particular stool looked odd, he's been going regularly and none of the others looked like this. I'm actually confused and naturally concerned, since there are some pointy bits sticking out of it, and also what looked to possibly be... little white worms.

He's on paper towels, so no chance of ingesting substrate. I gave it to the tech, but I'm pretty sure she just took a picture and tossed it. I took my own picture, but I don't want to be gross and post it here. 


It was just a bit frustrating, because I was hoping to get some questions answered, the vet tech admitted she didn't know much about this stuff but was still the one I was working with today and suggesting the meds weren't working. Very nice lady, but I left with even more questions

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*Bogertophis* (09-23-2021)

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## Bogertophis

Nothing wrong with posting "gross pics" here, you won't be the first  :Wink:  and that's how everyone learns what you're dealing with-  it may help them in the future if they see something similar.

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_Awesomethepossum_ (09-23-2021)

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## Awesomethepossum

> Nothing wrong with posting "gross pics" here, you won't be the first  and that's how everyone learns what you're dealing with-  it may help them in the future if they see something similar.


I increased the brightness a tad, since the room is dark. But, here it is

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*Bogertophis* (09-23-2021)

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## Bogertophis

To me, that looks like that tiny bit of blood came from the irritation of expelling a little bit of debris* without more actual stool to push it along (*probably ingested from a prior meal- from before you got him), & I do see what appears to be at least one worm too, in with that lovely mucoid mess.  (BTW, I think the mucus is "normal" all things considered- it's the body's way of self-protection.)

Out of curiosity, what dose of metronidazole is he on, anyway?

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## Awesomethepossum

> To me, that looks like that tiny bit of blood came from the irritation of expelling a little bit of debris* without more actual stool to push it along (*probably ingested from a prior meal- from before you got him), & I do see what appears to be at least one worm too, in with that lovely mucoid mess.  
> 
> Out of curiosity, what dose of metronidazole is he on, anyway?


I'm not sure of the dose, just know they get a weight each time and measure it based off of that. But this was supppsed to be his third and last treatment, 2 weeks from the last. Then the plan was for me to get another sample tested...

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*Bogertophis* (09-23-2021)

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## Bogertophis

Might be dosed on the low side then ("first do no harm") & not as effective as it should have been-  but don't panic, hang in there.
And just looking at him, he looks pretty healthy.  I know it's hard watching & waiting for a snake to get well, but it takes time.

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_Awesomethepossum_ (09-29-2021)

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## Awesomethepossum

Quick update:

He's starting to show subtle signs of improvement, since his little..emptying the other day- in the sense that there are signs of activity not present since he stopped eating (knocking things over and shuffling the paper towels). I hadn't seen him peeking out of his hide for months, but I caught him lurking the other day as if he was waiting for food (would have offered if it wasn't injection day). 

He's definitely going to shed soon, so I'm not sure he'd take right now. But it seems like he's starting to feel a bit better. 

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*Bogertophis* (09-29-2021)

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## Bogertophis

Oh, I sure HOPE so!   :Please:   Lurking for food sounds like a real positive sign he's feeling better.  Thanks for the update.   :Good Job:

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_Awesomethepossum_ (10-07-2021)

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## Awesomethepossum

Good news- I'm excited to say that he just took a live mouse for me 

On Tuesday, I had weighed him and he had lost more weight. So I gave another tube feeding after his injection, and boosted his temps up a bit more and left him be.

I had picked up some live feeders after work, like I do every Thursday. Plopped the boxes down, went to clean his tub and he readied himself in striking position. Haven't seem him get like that in a long time. Such a relief! Just need to make sure he keeps up with this. 

He's almost done with his antibiotics, and I know we're both looking forward to that.  He has a checkup next week and a fecal recheck, hoping that we're in the clear and we can work on gaining that weight back- and make up for lost time with his growing

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*Bogertophis* (10-07-2021)

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## Bogertophis

OH, that is WONDERFUL NEWS!  I'm so happy for you & especially for him!  He's so lucky to have you on his side.   :Very Happy:   :Dance: 

And I bet he'll start making faster progress now too (after eating).  I'm so glad you've been tube-feeding him- in my experience, that really helps a snake regain their energy & get their appetite back so they can fully recover.  Otherwise they spend all that time shutting down- & medications (as well as the process by which they're given) can make them continue to feel lousy.  He's clearly getting his "spark" back.   :Very Happy:

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_Awesomethepossum_ (10-07-2021)

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## Awesomethepossum

> OH, that is WONDERFUL NEWS!  I'm so happy for you & especially for him!  He's so lucky to have you on his side.   
> 
> And I bet he'll start making faster progress now too (after eating).  I'm so glad you've been tube-feeding him- in my experience, that really helps a snake regain their energy & get their appetite back so they can fully recover.  Otherwise they spend all that time shutting down- & medications (as well as the process by which they're given) can make them continue to feel lousy.  He's clearly getting his "spark" back.



For a snake that has been showing zero interest in food, he was hungry enough to take today, even after leaving him with a full belly on Tuesday. 

I hope I'm not getting ahead of myself, but I'm excited to see his progress from here on. Considering the species, I worried all of this stress would be too much for him to handle, but it looks like I underestimated his resilience.
 Other than the little love bite for his first injection, he ever once got nasty or lashed out. And if anything, he seems to have calmed down more because of the frequent handling

 This whole process has been a learning experience.  I'm so grateful for the advice and input you (and others) have given me

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*Bogertophis* (10-07-2021)

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## Bogertophis

No, I really don't think you're "getting ahead of yourself" here- this is a very positive sign.  He's not totally out of the woods yet, but he's right where I hoped he'd be for you.   :Good Job:

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_Awesomethepossum_ (10-17-2021),_Spicey_ (10-21-2021)

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## Awesomethepossum

It's been a while, but I wanted to update. He's eaten 4 live mice since that tube feeding I gave him on 10/5, and he also finally went through a shed. 

I still have him in his quarantine tub because they  still need to run a final fecal test and do another physical. So I'm working on just getting food in him.

Because he was a bit "touchy" towards the end of his shed... tied with poor aim during the last couple feedings (he was eating f/t off of tongs before all of this started), he's hit the sides of his tub a few times and developed a little bump on his lower lip. You can sort of see it in the picture, towards his right side.
I'm keeping an eye on it until his upcoming visit, hoping that its just some soreness from being trigger happy. But it hasn't gotten any worse than how it is right now. 

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AutumnVanilla (10-21-2021),*Bogertophis* (10-21-2021)

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## Bogertophis

Looks like most everything's going great with him.  I wouldn't worry too much about his little chin bump- it happens & hopefully will subside.  Just really happy to see him eating again, & looking so good!   :Good Job:

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_Awesomethepossum_ (10-21-2021)

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## Awesomethepossum

It's been a while now, but unfortunately, back to the vet again for Nicodemus. He had been gaining good weight, but took a turn and started losing interest in food again more recently, lost a significant amount of weight and has actually regurgitated his meals twice now. By appearances, he doesn't look to have gained any real size to him

After the first time, I waited 3 weeks after since he was also going into shed, and he threw up again, even with a smaller meal. Brought him into the vet and they think it's cryptosporidosis now. I was worried the hookworms just weren't out of his system, but they said that his parasite load would need to be high for that. 

Theyre having me feed him again. If he regurgitates, I need to take a swab of the feeder in for testing. If he holds it down, they want to see him 3 days after. I'm really hoping it isn't waht they think it is, but I'm at a loss.

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_Albert Clark_ (03-09-2022),*Bogertophis* (03-09-2022)

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## Bogertophis

I'm so sorry to hear this, & I sure hope they're wrong about the diagnosis- only time will tell I guess, but you've had him for quite a few months now.  I'm not sure just how long it takes crypto to become symptomatic, but let's hope this is something else- something that they can treat.  Poor snake, & you've worked so hard for this guy too.  Still hoping for the best, thanks for the update.

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_Albert Clark_ (03-09-2022),_Awesomethepossum_ (03-09-2022),_Homebody_ (03-09-2022)

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## bcr229

Has he still been in isolation?  Also you said the vet wanted to do a fecal exam last fall, did they look for crypto or just hookworms?  Crypto is a different test and even then false negatives are possible since it only shows up if the critter is actively shedding the parasite.

Run your hands along his mid-body.  One of the last symptoms of crypto to show up is mid-body thickening.  You might feel it before you can see it.

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_Albert Clark_ (03-09-2022),_Awesomethepossum_ (03-09-2022),*Bogertophis* (03-09-2022),_Homebody_ (03-09-2022)

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## Albert Clark

> Has he still been in isolation?  Also you said the vet wanted to do a fecal exam last fall, did they look for crypto or just hookworms?  Crypto is a different test and even then false negatives are possible since it only shows up if the critter is actively shedding the parasite.
> 
> Run your hands along his mid-body.  One of the last symptoms of crypto to show up is mid-body thickening.  You might feel it before you can see it.


Wow! What a story of ups and downs! Thanks to OP for all those accounts and updates, thanks Bogertophis for all the steadied concern and support. bcr229 thanks for being the consummate professional with your advice and support as well. This reptile has been through quite a bit. I was thinking when he was on the antibiotics and going through the weight loss that maybe we couldve considered soaking in H2O to help with hydration and kidney support. Along with the tube feedings. Although uncertain how and if it wouldve changed whats happened up to this point.

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_Awesomethepossum_ (03-09-2022)

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## Albert Clark

Cloacal tissue being as absorbent as a sponge. Drinking water as well.

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## Awesomethepossum

> Has he still been in isolation?  Also you said the vet wanted to do a fecal exam last fall, did they look for crypto or just hookworms?  Crypto is a different test and even then false negatives are possible since it only shows up if the critter is actively shedding the parasite.
> 
> Run your hands along his mid-body.  One of the last symptoms of crypto to show up is mid-body thickening.  You might feel it before you can see it.


I havent changed anything aside from moving him back to paper towels and increasing his temps slightly, and giving him extra water. Bare minimum interaction, I've been hands-off since all of this started to avoid added stress. Spaced out feedings more as he was becoming more fickle, which he does around when he sheds. Aside from that,  I thought it was related to the seasonal temp/pressure changes. I guess that was wishful thinking. 

They didn't specify what the criteria was with the fecal, but I don't think they specifically mentioned crypto. I told them he was a wild-caught import, but I'm not sure how narrow their search was, but they just told me they didn't see anything else aside from the hookworms.

I'm going to look him over now. I didn't think I felt anything because I did read about that after the vet suggested the diagnosis. He didn't get a follow-up fecal after the Metronidazole treatment because he bounced back so well, and at the checkup they said he didn't need anything else and cleared him.

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_Albert Clark_ (03-09-2022),*Bogertophis* (03-09-2022)

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## Awesomethepossum

> Has he still been in isolation?  Also you said the vet wanted to do a fecal exam last fall, did they look for crypto or just hookworms?  Crypto is a different test and even then false negatives are possible since it only shows up if the critter is actively shedding the parasite.
> 
> Run your hands along his mid-body.  One of the last symptoms of crypto to show up is mid-body thickening.  You might feel it before you can see it.


Just checked him over, no thickening or anything abnormal physically, no diarrhea either. I'm a bit confused about the disease and symptom progression relating to him, but maybe that's me really hoping this isn't what he has. 

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_Albert Clark_ (03-09-2022),*Bogertophis* (03-09-2022)

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## Bogertophis

:Confused:   So it still might not be crypto- I sure hope you (& your vet) can get him figured out.

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## bcr229

Honestly I'd be surprised if it were crypto since you've had him a year.  If it is then the only reason he's still alive is because of the exemplary care he's received from you.

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_Awesomethepossum_ (03-09-2022),_Homebody_ (10-07-2022)

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## Bogertophis

I wouldn't think "crypto" after all this time either.  Unless it was accidentally acquired from another critter somehow?

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_Awesomethepossum_ (03-09-2022)

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## Awesomethepossum

> Honestly I'd be surprised if it were crypto since you've had him a year.  If it is then the only reason he's still alive is because of the exemplary care he's received from you.


I've been trying to read up on it more, trying to find anything to ease my mind or rule it out, but the symptoms seem pretty generic and just bring up more questions

I've had this snake for a year now, and I'd say he was hovering close to a year old, give or take, when I got him. If he's 2 years old, he hasn't grown very much in that time. 

I'm not sure what other possibilities there are here. But if this is something that's exacerbated by stress (considering this is a very stress sensitive species) I'm sort of surprised it wasn't worse during all the vet visits, treatments and prodding he was getting last year

He was gaining weight, eating every 6-7 days from the first week of October into the first week of January. He regurgitated on 1/13, but went into shed a week or so after, so I had assumed that it was stress. I waited another week after he shed to feed another mouse, and he upped it a day later, undigested. Right now he's back down to his previous weight. 

The only other thing I could think of is that the hookworms never resolved. The vet didn't think that could be the case though. I feel really bad for this snake.

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_Albert Clark_ (03-11-2022),*Bogertophis* (03-09-2022)

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## Awesomethepossum

> Honestly I'd be surprised if it were crypto since you've had him a year.  If it is then the only reason he's still alive is because of the exemplary care he's received from you.


Thank you for the kind words. From you, Bogertophis, and everyone else. The support I get from you guys, I really appreciate it.

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_Albert Clark_ (03-11-2022)

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## Bogertophis

I was wondering the same thing, about the hookworms.  And I hate to say this, but I wonder if he could have caught something while at the vet's?  So hard to know, with a stressed snake that has been exposed to so much along the way.   :Confused:

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_Albert Clark_ (03-11-2022)

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## Awesomethepossum

> I was wondering the same thing, about the hookworms.  And I hate to say this, but I wonder if he could have caught something while at the vet's?  So hard to know, with a stressed snake that has been exposed to so much along the way.


They said he didn't need another follow-up after the treatment, no fecal was done after the course was completed. She said he wouldn't be regurgitating unless the hookworm infestation was high. But, maybe it is. 

I never really though about how it works. But I just read that Metronidazole can block the reproductive cycle of adult worms, but I didn't see anything about it killing the oocysts. Maybe I'm wrong. 

Or... maybe he did catch something.  

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*Bogertophis* (03-09-2022)

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## bcr229

Unfortunately nothing kills oocysts except ammonia, which is not a treatment option for your snake.

Crypto is also highly contagious which means if you have other snakes they're at risk.

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_Awesomethepossum_ (03-10-2022),_Homebody_ (03-09-2022)

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## Awesomethepossum

> Unfortunately nothing kills oocysts except ammonia, which is not a treatment option for your snake.
> 
> Crypto is also highly contagious which means if you have other snakes they're at risk.


I meant hookworm eggs, not oocysts. I've been researching as much as I can all day, used the wrong word. Just tired and worried.


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## Awesomethepossum

I've been doing as much research as I can, but Id say it's led to more questions on my part. 

In terms of symptom onset, progression once clinical signs have begun, i wasnt sure if there was a general timeframe to it after they do start showing symptoms associated with this?

From what I had read, typically snakes don't survive more than a year after they're showing clinical symptoms. From stories that I've read from others at least, it seems like the decline is rapid and death soon after, once the animals is newly acquired or otherwise infected by another animal, maybe delayed by a few months. 

With this guy, the seller had him for 3 months (if I recall correctly) before selling him, to treat him for internal parasites and make sure he was eating. When I brought him home, he ate enthusiastically for  3 months or so and was very active and healthy by all appearances, then during the last week of June, he refused his first meal unrelated to being in shed, and I noticed him being more lethargic, then anorexic in turn.

Never once had issues with regurgitation, only had a small amount of blood with diarrhea at the end of his metro treatment when he had also passed some small, pointy debris as his body cleaned out. Vet warned me ahead of time that it was normal, and it didn't happen again after that. 

After treatment, he was a very enthusiastic eater, but was still skittish about f/t, so I only gave live hoppers. Still could spook during feedings, which wasn't a noticable issue prior, but he's also a WLP. He gained a solid amount of weight in a relatively short time, and the vet was impressed with his condition.

So, aren't these technically symptoms, and would they be this easy to delay in snakes? I'm not sure if a 3 course Metro treatment would repress crypto for a bit, and this is a rebound? But with all the tube feedings, frequent vet visits and handling, probings he got for such a long time, not once did he regurgitate, and I would think that would be the time it would be more of a risk?

I'm not really sure how common or inclined a snake would be toward regurgitation if this was a rebound of an unresolved hookworm infection, either. Or what the chances of that are here. But I'm confused as to how this has been progressing, and if this is typical of crypto if that's what it could be, if that makes sense. 

Just trying to understand this. I'm still in shock honestly. Not trying to pretend a serious issue isnt here, but what else could it be?


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*Bogertophis* (03-11-2022)

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## Bogertophis

I don't think Flagyl ("metro-") would have any effect on crypto.  

It still hasn't been confirmed that your WLP has crypto, has it?   :Confused:   Wasn't that just an educated guess from your vet?  I'd try to get some prey into him as was suggested, so if (or when) he regurgitates, you can get a diagnostic test done & so you'll actually know what you're dealing with.   Until then, I would not assume it has to be that- but practice good isolation for whatever it is. 

If he won't take any prey, I'd try another tube-feed to see if you can at least get a stool sample for testing.  

I'm sorry this has been so frustrating & complicated to deal with.   Maybe there's some truth to the old adage "No good deed goes unpunished".   :Sad:   But even with c/b snakes from good sources, we never know when something could go terribly wrong.  No living things are infallible- I just wish snakes weren't so stoic.

And some of these questions (like about the hookworms) are better directed to your vet.  

At this point, from where I sit, I don't think either crypto or hookworms are ruled out, but there could also be something entirely different that's wrong.

I know how hard this is, & how badly you want this beautiful python to survive & be healthy- so do I- & the uncertainty is just awful.  Hang in there.

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_Awesomethepossum_ (03-13-2022)

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## Awesomethepossum

> I don't think Flagyl ("metro-") would have any effect on crypto.  
> 
> It still hasn't been confirmed that your WLP has crypto, has it?    Wasn't that just an educated guess from your vet?  I'd try to get some prey into him as was suggested, so if (or when) he regurgitates, you can get a diagnostic test done & so you'll actually know what you're dealing with.   Until then, I would not assume it has to be that- but practice good isolation for whatever it is. 
> 
> If he won't take any prey, I'd try another tube-feed to see if you can at least get a stool sample for testing.  
> 
> I'm sorry this has been so frustrating & complicated to deal with.   Maybe there's some truth to the old adage "No good deed goes unpunished".    But even with c/b snakes from good sources, we never know when something could go terribly wrong.  No living things are infallible- I just wish snakes weren't so stoic.
> 
> And some of these questions (like about the hookworms) are better directed to your vet.  
> ...


She didn't confirm it. I expect the educated guesses, that's how the processes starts. She put cryptosporidosis on the table and we left it at that. It's just left a lot of room for me to worry. Same went with the IBD.

She didn't seem too receptive to the idea of it being hook worm related. Which confused me because it seems very easy to get reinfected with hookworms, since they can also burrow in through skin contact. But, like you said, it could be something else entirely.

After his 3rd dose of metro, he passed a bunch of those worms and other junk, and he was a pig. So the meds did something.

She said it would be fine, but I'm still worried about offering him food again so soon after regurgitating. I've waited a few more days, since this 2nd regurg was 2/24 and I was just nervous about giving him time to recover. I hope this won't be too soon.

I'm going to the store tomorrow to get a small live hopper, the smallest they have.  I'll get some Nutribac on it with a bit of water. Maybe that'll help. 




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## Bogertophis

> She didn't confirm it. I expect the educated guesses, that's how the processes starts. She put cryptosporidosis on the table and we left it at that. It's just left a lot of room for me to worry. Same went with the IBD.
> 
> She didn't seem too receptive to the idea of it being hook worm related. Which confused me because it seems very easy to get reinfected with hookworms, since they can also burrow in through skin contact. But, like you said, it could be something else entirely.
> 
> After his 3rd dose of metro, he passed a bunch of those worms and other junk, and he was a pig. So the meds did something.
> 
> She said it would be fine, but I'm still worried about offering him food again so soon after regurgitating. I've waited a few more days, since this 2nd regurg was 2/24 and I was just nervous about giving him time to recover. I hope this won't be too soon.
> 
> I'm going to the store tomorrow to get a small live hopper, the smallest they have.  I'll get some Nutribac on it with a bit of water. Maybe that'll help. 
> ...


This shouldn't be "too soon" after his latest regurge on 2/24, as long as the prey is on the small side.  And I'll be hoping you finally have some better luck with him.  :Please: 

I don't think IBD is at all likely- but crypto, who knows?  I vaguely recall a thread* from a gal in Europe who got a corn snake from a pet store, & struggled with it (regurgitating meals)- it was really unusual because sometimes it showed a small mid-body swelling, but then it would disappear, which makes no sense at all.  (*I'm not sure if that thread was on this forum or not, it's been a while.)  I'm so sorry that you're having to worry about crypto as a possible cause.  

Anyway, I assume your vet ruled out blockages, whether from swallowed undigestible debris, or an abnormal growth-like a tumor?  Some animals (of all kinds) can be born or hatched with an  abnormally narrow passageway in their digestive tract, that only shows up when they grow.  And your vet should be the one to come up with other possible causes- as far as internal parasites or other seldom-seen diseases.  If you're not convinced about the hookworms being the possible issue, I'd ask more questions about that too. (But maybe he'll finally keep this one down, eh?  I HOPE!)

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_Awesomethepossum_ (03-14-2022)

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## bcr229

Flagyl is an appetite stimulant which is why it's commonly given to WC imports.  Not only does it treat for parasites but it encourages stressed snakes to eat.

Hopefully it's just a resurgence of the hookworms.  I've not had to deal with worming snakes, but with my horses I had to worm constantly and rotate through different types of wormers because parasites would become resistant if you just used one.  So, if this snake was dosed with flagyl when it was imported, and some of the worms survived, then your vet dosed with flagyl again, and now it still has some hookworms, it might be worthwhile to switch to a different wormer.

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_Awesomethepossum_ (03-14-2022),*Bogertophis* (03-14-2022),_Homebody_ (03-14-2022)

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## Awesomethepossum

> This shouldn't be "too soon" after his latest regurge on 2/24, as long as the prey is on the small side.  And I'll be hoping you finally have some better luck with him. 
> 
> I don't think IBD is at all likely- but crypto, who knows?  I vaguely recall a thread* from a gal in Europe who got a corn snake from a pet store, & struggled with it (regurgitating meals)- it was really unusual because sometimes it showed a small mid-body swelling, but then it would disappear, which makes no sense at all.  (*I'm not sure if that thread was on this forum or not, it's been a while.)  I'm so sorry that you're having to worry about crypto as a possible cause.  
> 
> Anyway, I assume your vet ruled out blockages, whether from swallowed undigestible debris, or an abnormal growth-like a tumor?  Some animals (of all kinds) can be born or hatched with an  abnormally narrow passageway in their digestive tract, that only shows up when they grow.  And your vet should be the one to come up with other possible causes- as far as internal parasites or other seldom-seen diseases.  If you're not convinced about the hookworms being the possible issue, I'd ask more questions about that too. (But maybe he'll finally keep this one down, eh?  I HOPE!)


He's negative for IBD, she didn't mention blockages or tumors. I'll mention that when I go in this week.

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*Bogertophis* (03-14-2022)

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## Awesomethepossum

> Flagyl is an appetite stimulant which is why it's commonly given to WC imports.  Not only does it treat for parasites but it encourages stressed snakes to eat.
> 
> Hopefully it's just a resurgence of the hookworms.  I've not had to deal with worming snakes, but with my horses I had to worm constantly and rotate through different types of wormers because parasites would become resistant if you just used one.  So, if this snake was dosed with flagyl when it was imported, and some of the worms survived, then your vet dosed with flagyl again, and now it still has some hookworms, it might be worthwhile to switch to a different wormer.


You're right..the seller treated him, then held onto him a month to make sure he was eating well post treatment. Said he was eating like a pig. Ate well for me for a couple of months, went off food, was treated, ate well for a few months...went off again. And here we are.

I got him a very small, live mouse fuzzy, got it wet and sprinkled a little Nutribac on top. He just ate it. I guess we'll see. I'm hoping he keeps this one down, either way, I need to see her in the next day or so, depending on how he does with it. 

But thank you-you made a really good point. I'm definitely bringing this up when I see her

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*Bogertophis* (03-14-2022)

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## Bogertophis

Just to be on the safe side, I'd wait a good 5 days to make sure he keeps this one down before visiting the vet again- & I agree w/ bcr229 also.

To the best of my knowledge, Flagyl (metronidazole) doesn't treat for hookworms- but yes, it tends to stimulate a snake's appetite, as it gets rid of protazoans. (not hookworms) If your snake was only given Flagyl, it's likely that the hookworms are still alive & well.  BTW, metronidazole is also sold for dosing tropical fish. ("Aqua-Zole" or "Fish-Zole" etc)  

It's been a while since I've needed either one, but to get rid of worms in a snake, I've used fenbendazole (Panacur), in the form of horse dewormer paste* (put in the oral cavity of the mouse that was fed).  For safety, I cautiously used a somewhat lower dose & repeated it several times, so as not to cause a massive die-off of worms that can (in some cases) die off & cause blockages** in areas they may have migrated to in a snake's body.  (**which could also cause other & sometimes serious, even fatal issues).  Remember, "First do no harm".   :Wink:  

*(https://www.chewy.com/panacur-equine...gaApT2EALw_wcB

To the best of my knowledge, Ivermectin is more effective against hookworms, but it's also pretty strong & can harm (kill) a snake if not used VERY carefully.  It too is sold in various forms- a paste for deworming horses, & an injectable form for cattle.  I actually use the latter (a TINY calculated dose extracted from the bottle with a syringe) every month to prevent heartworm in my dogs- years back, my then-vet told me about it, as it's so much less expensive than the oral chewies sold for dogs, but it's not the best method for everyone.  The tiny dose is then applied to something the dog eats- I use a bit of bread w/ peanut butter to cover the medicinal taste.  My dogs have never had heartworms & I've been safely using this for years.  But always ask your vet before using this for your dogs- as there are some dog breeds that are sensitive to all these medications, & this one has very little margin for error- and especially in snakes!  Ivermectin is sold in feed stores without prescription, fyi.  And I've NEVER used it on a snake, btw.

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_Albert Clark_ (03-14-2022),_Awesomethepossum_ (03-14-2022)

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## Bogertophis

By the way- just for clarity here & so we don't have to re-read this whole thread for details, can you specify what meds you & your vet have used so far on this WLP?

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_Awesomethepossum_ (03-14-2022)

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## Awesomethepossum

> By the way- just for clarity here & so we don't have to re-read this whole thread for details, can you specify what meds you & your vet have used so far on this WLP?


Metronidazole and Fortaz

He received 3 doses of Metronidazole for the hookworms.

And the injections of Fortaz which, I believe, was every 3 days for about 2 months. That was for the infection shown in his high WBC count, which was assumed to be related to the hookworms, since IBD was ruled out and his blood tests came back normal otherwise


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_Albert Clark_ (03-14-2022),*Bogertophis* (03-14-2022)

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## Bogertophis

> Metronidazole and Fortaz
> 
> He received 3 doses of Metronidazole for the hookworms.
> 
> And the injections of Fortaz which, I believe, was every 3 days for about 2 months. That was for the infection shown in his high WBC count, which was assumed to be related to the hookworms, since IBD was ruled out and his blood tests came back normal otherwise
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


So if your vet is SURE that this snake has hookworms, then metronidazole would seem to be the wrong drug for the job.  See my post #64 above.  

And by all means, do your own reading up on treating hookworms effectively in snakes.  I don't find Metronidazole recommended anywhere for hookworms.  

I'm not a vet but I can read.  And WOW, that was a LOT of Fortaz!  I've never used it & haven't researched that specifically (yet), but antibiotics in general are rough on a snake's body, & every 3 days for 2 months is a long time.  It would be a miracle if he WASN'T regurgitating after killing off his gut bacteria so effectively.

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## Bogertophis

> Metronidazole and Fortaz
> 
> He received 3 doses of Metronidazole for the hookworms.
> 
> And the injections of Fortaz which, I believe, was every 3 days for about 2 months. That was for the infection shown in his high WBC count, which was assumed to be related to the hookworms, since IBD was ruled out and his blood tests came back normal otherwise
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


I also have to wonder if he would have NEEDED the Fortaz* (*at all, or for so many injections?) if his hookworms had actually been addressed?  I think you need to ask your vet a lot of questions.   :Sad: 

Also, has he kept ANY kind of food down (liquid or solid) SINCE he was done with the Fortaz?  If that's what is causing his regurgitations, then I'd be tube-feeding him (Gerber's chicken diluted plus probiotics) for a while as it's easier for his stomach to handle.  But since you just fed him, I'll keep my fingers crossed & hope he can handle it.   :Please:

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_Awesomethepossum_ (03-14-2022),_jmcrook_ (03-14-2022)

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## Bogertophis

> ...
> She didn't seem too receptive to the idea of it being hook worm related. Which confused me because it seems very easy to get reinfected with hookworms, since they can also burrow in through skin contact. But, like you said, it could be something else entirely.
> 
> After his 3rd dose of metro, he passed a bunch of those worms and other junk, and he was a pig. So the meds did something.....


Backing up to an earlier post of yours: 

I think that all the 3 doses of metronidazole (aka Flagyl) did was stimulate his appetite & manage to "harass" some of his hookworms into leaving- they're not likely to be gone from Flagyl alone. 

The more I think about what this snake has gone thru (all that Fortaz!) I have a hunch that crypto is not at all responsible for his regurgitation, which is good   :Smile:   but now you have to get him cleaned out from the remaining hookworms, but do it GENTLY so his body can recover since his digestion has been thrashed.  He needs some TLC x 100.   :Wink:  

That his appetite came back ("he was a pig") after 3 doses of Flagyl is NORMAL & expected, but it doesn't mean he was rid of hookworms at that time.  Think about it- just because he felt hungry didn't mean his stomach was in any shape to receive & digest his food either, so that's why he regurgitated.  I'll say it again- antibiotics are not harmless- they're very hard on a snake's body.  They kill the "good gut bacteria" needed for digestion & they're also hard on other organs (liver & kidney).

It's no wonder he's been losing weight- he's been sharing his food with worms PLUS regurgitating when he's tried to eat because his stomach needs help.  

You might need a different vet's opinion if this one is as unreceptive as you stated.  Sorry to say- but only you know if you can really communicate with her on this or not.  I wish I had caught this earlier- but when you said your vet found hookworms, I assumed he was being correctly dosed to get rid of them, & that the Flagyl was in addition to that medication -to stimulate his appetite & clear other parasites he was likely to have.  What would have helped in this thread is a one-post "time-line" showing his meds & his regurgitations- it's hard for us to keep it straight or to know how long meds were given.

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## Awesomethepossum

> I also have to wonder if he would have NEEDED the Fortaz* (*at all, or for so many injections?) if his hookworms had actually been addressed?  I think you need to ask your vet a lot of questions.  
> 
> Also, has he kept ANY kind of food down (liquid or solid) SINCE he was done with the Fortaz?  If that's what is causing his regurgitations, then I'd be tube-feeding him (Gerber's chicken diluted plus probiotics) for a while as it's easier for his stomach to handle.  But since you just fed him, I'll keep my fingers crossed & hope he can handle it.


It was .04 ml each dose. I want to think I'm wrong about the timeframe for that, that I'm overshooting the duration, but it was no less than a month. They gave me a large bag of them. Honestly, it's hard to remember exactly, (I was pretty stressed out, to be honest) but I know I did stop giving it to him a few doses early because I wanted to focus on him eating 

I keep records of all feedings and weigh-ins. He's been eating on his own since 10/7. He's eaten 15 times from then, up to this first regurg on 1/13. 

During that span of time, he went from his lowest of 125g, all the way up to 258g by the end of November. This weight gain stagnated around early January because his appetite eased a bit, up to the last meal he kept down on 1/6, (which was right after a shed). As of Wednesday, he's back to around 150g.

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*Bogertophis* (03-14-2022)

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## Bogertophis

Well, if this latest small meal comes back up, just think about him like he's a human that's had the stomach flu, & needs a soft diet for a while until their stomach is ready to digest solid food- don't panic & think it's something awful like "crypto".   :Wink:    I think it's much more likely to be from the Fortaz.

Also, IF he cannot digest solid food yet, work on him keeping a liquid diet down- the hookworms can wait a while, until his body is in better shape.  Dosing a snake with multiple meds is often poorly tolerated- just an observation of mine from this & other forums.   :Snake:

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_Awesomethepossum_ (03-14-2022)

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## Awesomethepossum

> Backing up to an earlier post of yours: 
> 
> I think that all the 3 doses of metronidazole (aka Flagyl) did was stimulate his appetite & manage to "harass" some of his hookworms into leaving- they're not likely to be gone from Flagyl alone. 
> 
> The more I think about what this snake has gone thru (all that Fortaz!) I have a hunch that crypto is not at all responsible for his regurgitation, which is good    but now you have to get him cleaned out from the remaining hookworms, but do it GENTLY so his body can recover since his digestion has been thrashed.  He needs some TLC x 100.   
> 
> That his appetite came back ("he was a pig") after 3 doses of Flagyl is NORMAL & expected, but it doesn't mean he was rid of hookworms at that time.  Think about it- just because he felt hungry didn't mean his stomach was in any shape to receive & digest his food, so that's why he regurgitated.  I'll say it again- antibiotics are not harmless- they're very hard on a snake's body.
> 
> It's no wonder he's been losing weight- he's been sharing his food with worms PLUS regurgitating when he's tried to eat because his stomach needs help.  
> ...


You're right- should have been more detailed, and listed all the meds, and the treatment plan. To be honest, I was pretty burnt out from all of this last year

I've searched around in the past, but used this place because while I worked for animal control, we regularly used them for treating injured wildlife. That, and I've used them in the past with other reptiles. They're supposed to be the "go-to" around here for exotics. And they're fairly close to me.

I still want to get him tested for the crypto of course, but if he keeps it down, they want me to bring him in 3 days from the successful feeding. I guess, to get a sample of his stomach contents for testing, if he doesn't "up" it, in which case, I'm to collect a sample of the fluids on the rodent. But I also don't want him to stress puke either.

I think I just have terrible luck with vets.

 (Completely unrelated story,... while still being somewhat relevant to back that statement I just made, the last exotic vet clinic I went to actually killed one of my tiger salamanders in the single visit I made there. The vet told me I kept my salamander too cold", and took him into another room, where he apparently tried to "warm him up" with a hot wash cloth and heating pad. Brought him back into the room dead. I was devastated. 
This same vet ended up getting arrested in a police sting for soliciting minors last year. )

And also, a pic of my guy from a couple of months ago






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_Albert Clark_ (03-15-2022),*Bogertophis* (03-14-2022),_Spicey_ (03-14-2022)

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## Awesomethepossum

> Well, if this latest small meal comes back up, just think about him like he's a human that's had the stomach flu, & needs a soft diet for a while until their stomach is ready to digest solid food- don't panic & think it's something awful like "crypto".     I think it's much more likely to be from the Fortaz.
> 
> Also, IF he cannot digest solid food yet, work on him keeping a liquid diet down- the hookworms can wait a while, until his body is in better shape.  Dosing a snake with multiple meds is often poorly tolerated- just an observation of mine from this & other forums.


Would he start having issues keeping food down related to the Fortaz after eating well for a while? Or is that just in conjunction with the worms flaring back up, if that be the case?

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## Bogertophis

> Would he start having issues keeping food down related to the Fortaz after eating well for a while? Or is that just in conjunction with the worms flaring back up, if that be the case?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


See, that's what I was getting at when I said a time-line would help.  If he finished the Fortaz, & has kept food down for a while SINCE then, it shouldn't be the Fortaz (or rather the lack of digestive enzymes after Fortaz treatment) that's causing him to regurgitate.   It could be the worms, it could be something else, & yes, I agree you should test him for crypto, just in case he was exposed somewhere along the way, since it's very contagious.  But don't assume it has to be that.  

https://reptilesmagazine.com/the-vet...regurgitation/   excerpt:  (after discussing the most common husbandry issues)

..."There are a number of other causes that make up the remaining 10 percent of vomiting cases. There are several diseases that can cause a snake to vomit or regurgitate shortly after taking a meal. The exact mechanisms are beyond the scope of this article, but some of the causes can include bacteria, fungal infections, viruses, parasites, obstructions, cancer, kidney, liver and pancreatic diseases, and brain damage. The diagnosis of some of these conditions can be as simple as examining a routine fecal sample or as intricate as performing elaborate laboratory tests or even an MRI. Unfortunately, some of these latter tests can be quite costly."...

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_Albert Clark_ (03-15-2022)

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## Bogertophis

> You're right- should have been more detailed, and listed all the meds, and the treatment plan. To be honest, I was pretty burnt out from all of this last year
> 
> I've searched around in the past, but used this place because while I worked for animal control, we regularly used them for treating injured wildlife. That, and I've used them in the past with other reptiles. They're supposed to be the "go-to" around here for exotics. And they're fairly close to me.
> 
> I still want to get him tested for the crypto of course, but if he keeps it down, they want me to bring him in 3 days from the successful feeding. I guess, to get a sample of his stomach contents for testing, if he doesn't "up" it, in which case, I'm to collect a sample of the fluids on the rodent. But I also don't want him to stress puke either.
> 
> I think I just have terrible luck with vets.
> 
>  (Completely unrelated story,... while still being somewhat relevant to back that statement I just made, the last exotic vet clinic I went to actually killed one of my tiger salamanders in the single visit I made there. The vet told me I kept my salamander too cold", and took him into another room, where he apparently tried to "warm him up" with a hot wash cloth and heating pad. Brought him back into the room dead. I was devastated. 
> ...


Believe me, I can tell how stressful this has been for you.  Gosh, he's a beautiful snake!   :Love:  

I think it goes with the territory- exotics (especially herps) are a challenge, & most vets in this field would starve if that's all they saw.  So nearly all of them see way more than herps, therefore they don't have as much experience as we expect to see from vets that treat more typical pets (dogs & cats).   And because it often goes poorly, or there's few or no exotic vet nearby, or because many of those who own herps are under-age (& may have unsupportive parents), some herp-keepers don't bother to see the vet because they already expect a poor outcome no matter what (or they're in the business & do their own medical care)- so our vets don't get the experience they need to get really good.  

Add to that how stoic our snakes are   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  and how much depends on us to describe every little thing to the vet.  I've concluded that the local "go-to herp vet" is often so labeled because they're the only one around or the one most used.  So [full disclosure] I don't have great luck with herp vets either. I wish I did.  I'm so sorry about your salamander though...gee that was awful.   :Sad:   I think we also have to realize that the reason we're less impressed with herp vets is because we already KNOW more than most of their walk-in pet-parents do, so it's harder to put things over on us.   :Wink:   Many of us snake-keepers have learned to do a lot of our own research.  BTW, I would avoid "stress-puking" your WLP also.  He really needs some nourishment for a while.

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_Awesomethepossum_ (03-15-2022)

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## Awesomethepossum

> Believe me, I can tell how stressful this has been for you.  Gosh, he's a beautiful snake!   
> 
> I think it goes with the territory- exotics (especially herps) are a challenge, & most vets in this field would starve if that's all they saw.  So nearly all of them see way more than herps, therefore they don't have as much experience as we expect to see from vets that treat more typical pets (dogs & cats).   And because it often goes poorly, or there's few or no exotic vet nearby, or because many of those who own herps are under-age (& may have unsupportive parents), some herp-keepers don't bother to see the vet because they already expect a poor outcome no matter what (or they're in the business & do their own medical care)- so our vets don't get the experience they need to get really good.  
> 
> Add to that how stoic our snakes are   and how much depends on us to describe every little thing to the vet.  I've concluded that the local "go-to herp vet" is often so labeled because they're the only one around or the one most used.  So [full disclosure] I don't have great luck with herp vets either. I wish I did.  I'm so sorry about your salamander though...gee that was awful.    I think we also have to realize that the reason we're less impressed with herp vets is because we already KNOW more than most of their walk-in pet-parents do, so it's harder to put things over on us.    Many of us snake-keepers have learned to do a lot of our own research.  BTW, I would avoid "stress-puking" your WLP also.  He really needs some nourishment for a while.


I guess that's why it's getting complicated. Deciphering where to draw the line with relying on the vet and following their instructions, and going outside of that. 

Keeping in mind what you've said, paired with my own hesitant feelings about how the process has gone so far, and the lack of real results. It adds more heavily to my concerns. Especially if this IS the worms, and it could have been resolved with panacur months ago. And that I could have possibly just treated him myself with it. Or still could. Because from what I'm reading, yeah, flagyl shouldn't have been the go-to for the hookworms, which is really frustrating.

So far, he's kept that fuzzy mouse down. If he doesnt regurg/vomit, I'm unsure if I should take him back to the vet right away, if I should be focusing on getting food in him. Unless he does, I wouldn't be able to get him in to see her this week anyway.

I don't want to delay testing, or create an awkward dynamic with the vet since she was insistent with the 3 day thing. But it's at the point where I'm not sure where I should be taking more initiative, with his recovery in mind.

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*Bogertophis* (03-15-2022)

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## Bogertophis

Yes, very complicated.  I'm glad you've had a chance to read some more & came to the same conclusion about Flagyl versus Panacur for hookworms.  You still don't want to "burn your bridge" with the vet (since some doctors- of all kinds- don't take kindly to our input & instead expect us just to do as they say) so it puts you in a tough spot- I sure get that.  It's wonderful to find a doctor (or vet) that sees their patients as part of the "team" but they're hard to come by.

You may just have to "follow your gut" on this- I'm sure you could find reasons to postpone going in for testing this week, if that's your choice.  On the other hand, he did eat willingly, right?  So no reason to think he won't again- but it would be really nice to know if he fully keeps this meal down without "provocation" from the vet.  If that was me, I'd be more willing to bring him in for the test ("3 days after a successful small meal") after he's had at least one more such meal (assuming he keeps this down).  If he was my snake, I'd really want to see a little more food in him to keep up his strength- if you can stand not knowing for a little longer (ie. the crypto test).  Especially since you mentioned how much weight he's lost.  

It's really a tough job to be a vet- they likely feel pressured to get the pets we love healthy as soon as possible- only with snakes, sometimes I think they try to throw too much at a snake's fragile body all at once.  But that's just my opinion & I'm not a vet, so there you go- it's your call.  And only you know his current condition (as far as how thin he is).  If you can, be honest but tactful with your vet with your questions & hesitations.  Listen with an open mind too, but if it still doesn't seem right to you, you'll have to be the "advocate" for your WLP.  

As far as this possibly being any sort of blockage (debris or tumor or abnormal GI tract), the vet could do a scan for that, right?  Pricey though, if it can be avoided (medically helped instead).

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## Bogertophis

> ...
> 
> So far, he's kept that fuzzy mouse down. If he doesnt regurg/vomit, I'm unsure if I should take him back to the vet right away, if I should be focusing on getting food in him. Unless he does, I wouldn't be able to get him in to see her this week anyway.
> 
> I don't want to delay testing, or create an awkward dynamic with the vet since she was insistent with the 3 day thing. But it's at the point where I'm not sure where I should be taking more initiative, with his recovery in mind.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


Another way I'd look at this right now is to consider what's likely better for the snake: to quickly see the vet to test for crypto?  or to help his nutrition & body weight?  
*
If* your snake actually *has* crypto, then his outcome is bad no matter how fast you find out.  :Sad:  The main downside of waiting is any risk to other snakes you might have.  
(Has he ever had any mucoid diarrhea, btw?)

*If* your snake does *not* have crypto, but he continues to have a poor nutritional status, then no matter what his current issue is, he could also develop another health issue since his body is weak.

It's your decision, even though it's sometimes challenging to be on the same page with your vet.   :Wink:  

But I'd still have to wonder why she never gave him Panacur to get rid of the hookworms which she verified in his stool right away?  Both Flagyl & Panacur are pretty safely used in snakes & very helpful, especially in wild-caught snakes- but they don't do the same thing.  I've used them both very effectively, btw.  

You mentioned that the seller said he had already treated this snake for "internal parasites"- but whether he used both of these meds would be helpful to know.  Even if both were used, apparently he only treated enough for the snake to appear healthy enough to be sold, without fully getting rid of the hookworms.  Oh the joys of w/c imported snakes... :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):   This is why many don't survive, sadly- the parasites, the stress from shipping+ plus the exposure to other diseases along the way.  But with luck & in the right hands... :Please: 

Your vet also seems to jump to the most scary conclusions before testing- first it was IBD, now Crypto.  Maybe she's recently dealt with some very sad cases, but most doctors don't give patients such dire news without being sure.

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_Awesomethepossum_ (03-16-2022)

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## bcr229

Bear in mind most exotic vets don't deal with WC critters often, so they're looking for the contagious diseases most prevalent in CB populations.  Folks who regularly deal with WC usually treat for parasites themselves instead of going to the vet as wormers are available over the counter.

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_Awesomethepossum_ (03-16-2022)

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## Awesomethepossum

> Another way I'd look at this right now is to consider what's likely better for the snake: to quickly see the vet to test for crypto?  or to help his nutrition & body weight?  
> *
> If* your snake actually *has* crypto, then his outcome is bad no matter how fast you find out.  The main downside of waiting is any risk to other snakes you might have.  
> (Has he ever had any mucoid diarrhea, btw?)
> 
> *If* your snake does *not* have crypto, but he continues to have a poor nutritional status, then no matter what his current issue is, he could also develop another health issue since his body is weak.
> 
> It's your decision, even though it's sometimes challenging to be on the same page with your vet.   
> 
> ...


He still has that fuzzy in him, which is good. He's obviously lean/thin, but still rounded, no dullness in appearance. But I also know how quickly things can change. I'd like to see if I can get another meal in him, assuming he keeps this one down

I don't think I've ever seen mucous in his stool. I know it could be easy to confuse a mostly digested meal from feces sometimes too....is that what you had in mind?

Thats essentially the issue for me with the vet.....the jumping to scary conclusions, and grim delivery of it ('all other options have been exhausted' type vibe). That's been a heavy contributer to my stress.

I had told myself I wouldn't get another WC snake. I didn't than on it either...but I saw him at an expo and went with it. I've never seen them at expos around here before.

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## Awesomethepossum

> Bear in mind most exotic vets don't deal with WC critters often, so they're looking for the contagious diseases most prevalent in CB populations.  Folks who regularly deal with WC usually treat for parasites themselves instead of going to the vet as wormers are available over the counter.


This has been a long learning process for sure...

I should have assumed to treat him after I brought him home, or when this started going down-hill. Wild caught snakes are uncharted territory for me, definitely nothing I'll be pursuing in the future either. I have a lot to learn.
I appreciate both of you continuing to give advice and feedback along the way with this. Deciding on how to go about this has been tough, so it's good to hear from others that have experiences with these types of things.

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## Bogertophis

> He still has that fuzzy in him, which is good. He's obviously lean/thin, but still rounded, no dullness in appearance. But I also know how quickly things can change. I'd like to see if I can get another meal in him, assuming he keeps this one down
> 
> I don't think I've ever seen mucous in his stool. I know it could be easy to confuse a mostly digested meal from feces sometimes too....is that what you had in mind?
> 
> Thats essentially the issue for me with the vet.....the jumping to scary conclusions, and grim delivery of it ('all other options have been exhausted' type vibe). That's been a heavy contributer to my stress.
> 
> I had told myself I wouldn't get another WC snake. I didn't than on it either...but I saw him at an expo and went with it. I've never seen them at expos around here before.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


I'm so glad he's keeping the fuzzy down.   :Good Job: 

Not exactly.  Regurges usually have some mucus coating them, as can feces from a sick snake.  In the link for crypto that I provided in post #2, the article mentions that often mucoid diarrhea is noted in snakes suffering from crypto, due to the damage done to the digestive tract- & you might also see a tinge of blood too.  So I'm glad that so far, you're not seeing that either.  

As far as your vet's grim prognosis, perhaps it's just how she sees things ("glass half empty" vs. "glass half full")- plenty of doctors in all fields are a bit short on "bedside manners" & optimism.

I generally don't like to second-guess what vet's do- after all, we're paying them for their training & expertise- but unfortunately, sometimes you have to ask, & as their paying customer, we have a right to know what's going on with our pet, especially if something doesn't quite make sense, or isn't working.

W/C snakes aren't always a disaster, depending on where they're from, but W/C imports OFTEN are.   :Sad:   And any W/C snakes that have been commercially shipped are very stressed also.

"Impulse buys" (or impulse-acquisitions/adoptions)- I think we've all been there... :Wink: 

Anyway, don't give up-  It's not proven to be crypto & you still might 'win' this battle.   :Snake:    Think positive!!!

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_Albert Clark_ (04-03-2022),_Awesomethepossum_ (03-20-2022)

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## Bogertophis

Hey, how's he doing?

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_Awesomethepossum_ (04-03-2022)

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## Awesomethepossum

> Hey, how's he doing?


Sorry for the delayed response. I was actually meaning to give an update the other day but got distracted with work and miscellaneous life stuff. But I think a have a good amount to update with at this point 

He's eaten 3 times for me since that refurg on 2/24 without issue. 

Two live mouse fuzzies dusted in Nutribac, spread a week apart (can only special order them once a week), then on the 30th I sized it up and gave him a live mouse hopper, also dusted.

Worth noting, I started him on Panacur on 3/20, and since it's been 2 weeks, he got his second dose today. 

Since it started, he's been out and about more. Meaning, he isn't just sitting under his hide being lethargic, he's been renovating his enclosure. Nothing frantic, just active at night. And I've seen him out sleeping in the open during the day as well.

I've also been doing thorough cleanings of his tub, water dish, and hide every 3 days at least, or whenever he uses the bathroom

His stool has been watery (started before the Panacur) but no blood and only a small amounts were present in prominently clear fluid. It does smell a bit, which started after the panacur. Today, the stool was solid, not watery at all. But only a small amount. Urates were white

He weighs the same as he did 2 weeks ago (150g). I can't complain, considering he's been eating small, spaced out meals. But, maybe I can increase the frequency now and put more focus on weight gain, since he hasn't had a regurg.

For this last live mouse hopper, his enthusiasm was refreshing and he didn't play any games about it. No defensive striking, or dodginess. He sucked it down. Haven't seen any abdominal swelling at all either




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_Albert Clark_ (04-03-2022),*Bogertophis* (04-03-2022),_Starscream_ (04-03-2022)

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## Bogertophis

I am thrilled to hear that things are going better for you & this beautiful snake-   :Good Job:   Maybe the first round of Panacur just didn't quite get the job done & this is just all he needs?  Hang in there- snakes manage to survive a great deal in the wild, & I think the same can apply in captivity as long as we don't bombard their delicate bodies with "too many remedies" at once.

I asked about him a few days back when I noticed you were on the forum- sometimes "too busy" can't be helped.   :Snake:

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_Awesomethepossum_ (04-04-2022)

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## Awesomethepossum

I'm hoping this is gets it done. If his appetite and everything becomes solid again, I do worry about another "rebound". Just because of this poor guy's history of showing positive improvement, then going downhill again

Not sure if it would be too soon to offer food today. His basking temps are boosted up a few degrees and he's out and about. Not sure if that's because of the dewormer last night or if he's hungry. I guess there's only one way to find out. 

To be safe, a 3rd dose in another 2 weeks seems appropriate. After that, I'll take a fecal in to the vet

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*Bogertophis* (04-04-2022)

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## Bogertophis

> I'm hoping this is gets it done. If his appetite and everything becomes solid again, I do worry about another "rebound". Just because of this poor guy's history of showing positive improvement, then going downhill again
> 
> Not sure if it would be too soon to offer food today. His basking temps are boosted up a few degrees and he's out and about. Not sure if that's because of the dewormer last night or if he's hungry. I guess there's only one way to find out. 
> 
> To be safe, a 3rd dose in another 2 weeks seems appropriate. After that, I'll take a fecal in to the vet
> 
> Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


To the best of my knowledge, the medication sort of stimulates (irritates) the stomach, which feels like hunger to the snake.  I'm sure he needs the nutrition too, but hopefully by going a bit slow, he'll keep recovering & not "back-sliding".  Fingers crossed here.

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## Awesomethepossum

Update:

I gave Nicodemus his 3rd dose of Panacur last night. He was also in shed, but was struggling, so I had to switch him over to substrate. It's been hard keeping the humidity up in his tub and he was starting to look a bit dehydrated as well. I'm conflicted on whether I should switch him back off or not, now that he's done shedding. 

He had a bowel movement with the shed, but it was hard to tell if there were worms in it, or if it was just some mucus. I'll need to touch base with the vet (I haven't spoken to them since the crypto talk) and get a fecal done.

 I'm really hoping these three doses of Panacur will be enough to clean him out.

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*Bogertophis* (04-18-2022)

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## Bogertophis

I've never tried it but I suppose you could give him a "bed" of damp sponges instead of substrate.

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_Awesomethepossum_ (04-19-2022)

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## Awesomethepossum

Super delayed update. It's been ages since I posted on here and I wasnt sure if i was going to.. But, wanted to touch base if anyone was still curious.

My guy stopped having any issues since I last posted here earlier this year about the concerns for IBD or crypto. No diarrhea, weight loss, no regurgitations. Appetite was good, no weight loss, great body condition. Because of this, and because other separate, significant issues came up (financial, familial, personal health, another pet needed multiple surgeries) I didn't get back in touch with his vet. Which I don't feel great about, but here we are.

Then, over the past month, he started having foul-smelling, liquid diarrhea. So I booked an appointment a couple of weeks out for today.

I took him into a different vet office. I was really stressed about this, because I never got back in touch with that previous vet office, and this new one had recieved the last records about the talk of crypto, and his deteriorating health at the time, and I could tell they had feelings about this. I believe the offices work closely together. They did surgery on one of my ampbibians and were incredible, so I told them I just wanted their opinion as well.

They told me after taking him back for the exam, when they took him out to do the exam, they were confused because he's in perfect condition, he appeared bright, healthy, was alert, etc. But then he exploded diarrhea all over them.

The specialist collected all of it, said he had an abundance of protozoans and what appeared to be roundworms. I asked about crypto, and the exotics specialist said that it isn't ruled out, but also isn't setting off alarm bells for her because of his healthy physical condition, considering his symptom history and how long I've had him. She said that the other snakes that she's examinded that had it were wasting away. She said my guy looked perfect.

She said since he's been treated by the other vet already for worms, he had to have picked this stuff up another way after the fact? I was a bit confused by that. 

So for now, they're sending out a fecal OP, a culture, and a gram stain.

She said the fecal results will likely be back by tomorrow, the cultures will take 1-2 weeks.

His couse of meds involve:
-Metronidazole (.06ml, oral) repeated every 48 hours. 4 doses total.
-Oxfendazole (.17ml, oral). One dose today, then again in 14 days.

She also advised I steam clean everything. I just ordered one, and I'm already feeling better having taken him into see them.

It's been a bit of a rollercoaster, but wanted to give that update. 

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*bcr229* (10-05-2022),*Bogertophis* (10-05-2022),Gio (10-05-2022),_GoingPostal_ (10-05-2022),_Homebody_ (10-05-2022),_Spicey_ (10-05-2022)

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## bcr229

Given that it's been well over a year and your snake has good body condition with no regurgitations I think you can safely rule out crypto.

What most folks don't realize is that over time parasites develop their own resistance to wormers just like bacteria develop them for antibiotics.  This is why your snake is being given two different wormers now, both of which are effective against the parasites he's carrying, and neither of which are Panacur.

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_Albert Clark_ (10-07-2022),_Awesomethepossum_ (10-05-2022),*Bogertophis* (10-05-2022),_GoingPostal_ (10-05-2022),_Homebody_ (10-05-2022)

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## Awesomethepossum

> Given that it's been well over a year and your snake has good body condition with no regurgitations I think you can safely rule out crypto.
> 
> What most folks don't realize is that over time parasites develop their own resistance to wormers just like bacteria develop them for antibiotics.  This is why your snake is being given two different wormers now, both of which are effective against the parasites he's carrying, and neither of which are Panacur.


The original vet said he only had hookworms, which is why I'm confused.

 I'm not sure where else he could have picked this other stuff up unless... he got it from those live feeders...


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_Albert Clark_ (10-07-2022),_Homebody_ (10-06-2022)

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## Awesomethepossum

I guess it would make sense then. Just didn't think of it at the time, since the priority was about getting food in him and he wouldn't eat anything except live mice at the time.

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_Homebody_ (10-06-2022)

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## Bogertophis

> ...I'm not sure where else he could have picked this other stuff up unless... he got it from those live feeders...
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


 :Yes:   Most likely...And I'm very glad for your update- I've wondered & hoped you'd post.  You've been thru a lot with this guy, but it sounds like you're winning "the war" (YAY!!!)- so now to get rid of his current parasites.

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_Awesomethepossum_ (10-05-2022)

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## Awesomethepossum

> Most likely...And I'm very glad for your update- I've wondered & hoped you'd post.  You've been thru a lot with this guy, but it sounds like you're winning "the war" (YAY!!!)- so now to get rid of his current parasites.


He's a champ.. I would have posted sooner, but he seemed to be doing okay, and I got distracted by unexpected stuff

Looking at him, you wouldn't know he had anything going on. Which is why I thought he was fine, until the nasty stool started a few weeks ago. I've worked animal control, in dog kennels, and in wildlife rehab...but this smell almost made me puke.

I'll say this cautiously, but it'll be nice to get him out of that quarantine tub, off paper towels and into an actual enclosure. He's been eating f/t for a while now-finally started taking again. So live rodents aren't necessary anyway. Looking forward to an end to this, for sure.

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*Bogertophis* (10-05-2022),_dakski_ (10-07-2022),_GoingPostal_ (10-05-2022),_Homebody_ (10-06-2022)

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## Bogertophis

Well he's gorgeous & you took on quite a project with this guy, so  :Tip of the Hat:  to you!   :Very Happy:   As they say, "this too shall pass"-  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  but until then, hold your nose.




> Super delayed update. It's been ages since I posted on here.....because other separate, significant issues came up (financial, familial, personal health, another pet needed multiple surgeries)....


You're forgiven-  :Wink:  & that's "life" sometimes.  A awful lot to deal with.  I hope everything has calmed down now.

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## Albert Clark

He does look amazing! Congratulations.

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## Awesomethepossum

His fecal O&P test results came back. Lots of hookworm ova and larvae present (>30), as well as another parasite called blastocystis sp. (>30). Still waiting on the other results of the gram stain and cultures. 

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*Bogertophis* (10-10-2022),_Homebody_ (10-11-2022)

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## Bogertophis

Wow, that poor little snake!  But with all your help, he's going to win this battle too-   :Good Job:   We never know what any little snake is hiding when we take them on.  Neither of you deserved all this, but it was a lucky day for him when you bought him.

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