# Ball Pythons > BP Morphs & Genetics >  so has ralph spilled the beans yet?

## sookieball

What on gods green earth is that blasted yellow, black stripped beastly gorgeous ball he produced! 

Where are some updated pics!!! 

Anyone?

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## Subdriven

Might have to wait till next season..  when he has more and knows more what happened..   :Smile:

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## TheSnakeEye

in for pics of snake =)

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## mpkeelee

he probably wont be saying anything for a while and i dont really blame him.

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_hoax_ (01-12-2011)

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## Akren_905

Ive learned that like here as in every hobby there are secrets which might never be told like in fishing  :Wink:

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## TessadasExotics

He is never going to spill the beans on that animal.

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## loonunit

as. if!

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## sookieball

> in for pics of snake =)





damn him! i dont even  care what it is i just want a sick picture of it so i can carry it around! thats as close to i will ever as i will ever come to owning it!  :Tears:

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BEasy119 (12-06-2010),h00blah (02-21-2012)

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## Subdriven

Hell ..  he might not know excactlty what is in that thing..   NERD has a few snakes that they only have a idea what made it..  but not what REALY did..

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## TessadasExotics

Ralph seams to keep very accurate and detailed info on every thing he does concerning his Ball Pythons. I am sure he knows what is in that snake.

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## Gloryhound

Looking at the head it looks like it has spider.  Stripe would be the result of combining genetic stripe with the spider.  The color is the one that gets me, but I may go with pastel and fire going out on a limb.  So this is a minimum of 4 genes and probably has at least one other lightener in it.

Not that Ralph will confirm it or anythig, but it is always fun to guess.

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## WingedWolfPsion

The head doesn't look like spider to me, I think it's clown.

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_I<3Dreamsicles_ (12-15-2010),_jben_ (12-05-2010),_RhacHead_ (12-05-2010),_steveboos_ (12-05-2010)

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## mpkeelee

ralph, NERD and some other big breeders prolly have other stuff tucked away that they arent even showing or talking about. i bet that snake ralph produced has been in the works for a while and has been pretty hush hush. with all his other incredible pet projects im sure he has a bunch of secrets sleeping in those racks of his. 

i wish i had snakes in my closet...lol

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## Subdriven

Just go through his site..  it always has CLASIFIED folders on his secret clutches..   And I remeber hearing that if you go through his clutches the last year or 2 you can figure alot of it out.   And he is going for some crazy clown stuff, so I bet there is atleast clown in it.

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## JLC

> Ralph seams to keep very accurate and detailed info on every thing he does concerning his Ball Pythons. I am sure he knows what is in that snake.


I don't think it's necessarily a matter of record keeping to not know exactly which genes are influencing a mega-combo morph.  It's that sometimes there may be so many genes that MIGHT have been inherited, the breeder can't always tell exactly which ones were. 




> The head doesn't look like spider to me, I think it's clown.


I agree, it looks more clownish than spiderish to me.  Of course, that doesn't mean it might not have both in there somewhere.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):   But clown seems to be the overriding influence for the pattern...at least that's how it looks to me.  And I would not guess any super-pastel in there, or the head would not be such a brilliant yellow.  I would guess that something other than pastel is bringing out that sunshiny color.   :Sunny: 

Beyond those two comments, I refuse to speculate further on what might be going on in that beauty.   :Razz:

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_LotsaBalls_ (12-05-2010)

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## GOM

I also have a very strong feeling he is well aware of what is in it but until proven he is going to keep it secret from teh rest of us mere mortals!!!  :Razz: 

But time will tell, we just have to be patient on this one!

None the less, well done Ralph!
 :Good Job:

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## LotsaBalls

I still think it's super enchi desert pastel spider clown.

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## adamjeffery

i agree with it might be super enchi spider clown....desert is a good possability but im not thinking pastel..def not super pastel maybe regular pastel.
adam jeffery

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## Tidus10

its king triton in snake form... mystery solved  :Very Happy:

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## mainbutter

I feel pretty good about the clutch I think it came from, and it's not one of the classified ones.

With his classified clutches, he shows off the females on eggs.  These hardly ever are the kinds of females that would pop out something like the snake in question, as we can all probably agree that the snake is most likely some combo morph of at least 3 seperate traits.

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## sookieball

> I feel pretty good about the clutch I think it came from, and it's not one of the classified ones.
> 
> With his classified clutches, he shows off the females on eggs.  These hardly ever are the kinds of females that would pop out something like the snake in question, as we can all probably agree that the snake is most likely some combo morph of at least 3 seperate traits.


its a killer designer morph and i would kill to have it  :Cool:

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## Emilio

I'll tell you this I love the Magpie but Ralph took the award this year. When I say award what I'm really saying is this, his snake and flatline video blew everybody else outta the water this year. :Wink:  Good work man!! :Good Job:

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## BPelizabeth

Holy moly that is a HOTTIE.  WOW!!!!

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## gant77

I did read on either BP.net or KS, that there are supposedly 500 +/- morphs that will never be seen by the public! I can only imagine the variety.

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## OhhWatALoser

> I did read on either BP.net or KS, that there are supposedly 500 +/- morphs that will never be seen by the public! I can only imagine the variety.


Unless one person is holding back 500 or so morphs, how can they even make a claim like that?

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## jakethesnake36

The desert clown looks pretty close to this one...If you added superpastel or pastel enchi you might be close...I think  :Wink: 
If you are watching this Ralph, let me know if im close ..LOL..

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## mykee

I don't mean to sound like an arse or anything, but...
Seriously, I stopped caring what it was a week after seeing the picture.
Does anyone else but me think that this whole "mystery snake" thing is a bit juvenile and dated?
I remember back when Ralph and the other "big guys" popped out two dozen "wow factor" animals a year, back when they were relevent and really the ONLY guys with cool stuff.
Now, it's 2010 and there are some really cool, humble breeders popping out just as cool stuff.  Breeders who are willing to share (at least genetically) what they're producing.
I'm over it.

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## mumps

I'm with mykee on this one.

"Secret", "Classified" clutches and not relaying what makes up a snake genetically is just marketing.

I know if I produced the flatline, and was the first to do it, I'd have pics and ingredients all over the net.  This hobby has advanced to the great state it is through the sharing of information, not hiding it.

Chris

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## wolfy-hound

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8uHo...eature=related

The "calider" shares a lot of the same markings, just no bright yellow...

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## nelson77321

the enchi het clown & pastle het clown & lesser het clown x clown female clutch hasa classified result, its probably a enchi clown, i know people will say it cant make the clown that yellow, but untill we see another enchi clown hatch, what can we say? im sticking with my first thought and saying enchi clown. looks male too  :Razz:  hahaha.

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## TessadasExotics

> I'm with mykee on this one.
> 
> "Secret", "Classified" clutches and not relaying what makes up a snake genetically is just marketing.
> 
> I know if I produced the flatline, and was the first to do it, I'd have pics and ingredients all over the net.  This hobby has advanced to the great state it is through the sharing of information, not hiding it.
> 
> Chris



Um if you were as big as some one like Ralph with a 5k+ a month power bill and all of the expenses that go with taking care of a big facility and tons of snakes, you would keep secrets too. Otherwise that unique animal that took you years to make would be done by more people and bring your profits way down super fast. It is a marketing strategy. He has bills that have to be paid. If no one knows what the genetic ingredients of a special snake are, no one else can make it. Once every one else knows what it is and they start making them all over the place, he loses money.

If you didn't keep those type of secrets for as long as you could it would be pretty silly. Might as well just hand money out to people or just give away your snakes for free.

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_hoax_ (01-12-2011),_I<3Dreamsicles_ (12-15-2010)

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## Subdriven

> Um if you were as big as some one like Ralph with a 5k+ a month power bill and all of the expenses that go with taking care of a big facility and tons of snakes, you would keep secrets too. Otherwise that unique animal that took you years to make would be done by more people and bring your profits way down super fast. It is a marketing strategy. He has bills that have to be paid. If no one knows what the genetic ingredients of a special snake are, no one else can make it. Once every one else knows what it is and they start making them all over the place, he loses money.
> 
> If you didn't keep those type of secrets for as long as you could it would be pretty silly. Might as well just hand money out to people or just give away your snakes for free.


I agree.  It not like snakes are the only buisness in the world that does it..  Think of the car company's.   they show you concept pics then magizine pics and you never get to drive it for ages..   The new camaro was showed off in 2001 and then 9 YEARS later available.

It's a buisness, and for these big guys it is THERE buisness not just a hobby like most of us.  There bread and milk comes from it!  There is nothing wrong with getting some people excited about a amazing snake.  

If he posted that video with what it takes to make it right before breading seson, how many of you all would be trying to make it by right now...   Then bamm, there goes his project...    

Think he would even try to make something great after that happens every time??

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## jakethesnake36

> The desert clown looks pretty close to this one...If you added superpastel or pastel enchi you might be close...I think 
> If you are watching this Ralph, let me know if im close ..LOL..


http://www.snakepreview.com/wordpres...chment_id=1022

The pattern is about the same,...Just needs some colour  :Smile:

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M_MULLINS (05-11-2011)

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## Pythonjoop

desert clown X enchi super pastel .


Mvg Pythonjoop

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## Fallen

It like this one that i found it in HVH its desert x clown i guess like it says a few post up needs a little bit more of the yellow color.

http://blog.hudsonvalleyherps.com/Po...lown%20026.JPG

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## sookieball

> It like this one that i found it in HVH its desert x clown i guess like it says a few post up needs a little bit more of the yellow color.
> 
> http://blog.hudsonvalleyherps.com/Po...lown%20026.JPG


niiiiiiiiiiiiiice!!!...

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## LotsaBalls

So, many have said it's marketing not to release what's in a new snake. I can see that to a point if it's a new gene. But if it's just a combo of things many have (by many Im talking about med size breeders), then you produce it and release what it is and hope to sell the ingredients. Unless it's a new morph, what's the point? Combos are cool but if it's something like a pastel super Enchi clown spider special. You have to have adults with enough of the traits het clown. Not alot of risk in that. And to let everyone know just drives sales. As long as you have them to sell. IMO

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## mainbutter

> the enchi het clown & pastle het clown & lesser het clown x clown female clutch hasa classified result, its probably a enchi clown, i know people will say it cant make the clown that yellow, but untill we see another enchi clown hatch, what can we say? im sticking with my first thought and saying enchi clown. looks male too  hahaha.





> I feel pretty good about the clutch I think it came from, and it's not one of the classified ones.


Ok, so I lied a bit  :Razz: 

It's pretty easy to see that the only clutch that makes sense from RDR's page is clutch 164.  I 100% on enchi clown with the info that is publicly available.  Still, that thing is crazy yellow for just an enchi clown, but as far as I've been able to tell there hasn't been anyone who has produced an enchi clown and put pics up on the web.

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## sookieball

> So, many have said it's marketing not to release what's in a new snake. I can see that to a point if it's a new gene. But if it's just a combo of things many have (by many Im talking about med size breeders), then you produce it and release what it is and hope to sell the ingredients. Unless it's a new morph, what's the point? Combos are cool but if it's something like a pastel super Enchi clown spider special. You have to have adults with enough of the traits het clown. Not alot of risk in that. And to let everyone know just drives sales. As long as you have them to sell. IMO


its marketing yes, 

its also keeping your "big name" a big name. 
reputation is a profitable thing. the better the rep. the better the sales. 
im telling you now i'd give vital organs to have some of 
the more rediculously gorgeous and exotic morphs. 
and kevin at NERD knows all to well. 
you dont sell your secrets.
when they are no longer secrets, they're non-profitable. 
if kevin gave out all his recipes and ralph, brian, all the "up there"
breeders, they wouldn't have the money to produce 
the inpiration in small time hobbyists to come out with their own "next big thing" 


just my 2cents,

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## TheReptileEnthusiast

The whole "everyone will start making them" argument is ridiculous. You can't just start making animals that have a recessive trait combined with multiple other traits. It takes YEARS. One year just to make the morph het clowns, assuming you already have a BREEDING size male clown and BREEDER females of all the other morphs involved. Then you would still have to raise up the morph het clowns to breeding size. Why do you think we haven't seen the market flooded with panda pieds? Plenty of people are working on it, but it takes TIME. Brock blew everyone away with his lesser clowns a year ago, and the market hasn't exactly been flooded with lesser clowns yet, and it is just one codom with one recessive. We will probably see some in the 2011 season, but it is safe to say that "everyone" hasn't got that far yet. 

That being said, I can't blame Ralph for not releasing the recipe before he has even sold the animal or any sibs that would be helpful in producing another flatline, especially right before breeding season. Why not give yourself an extra season lead on the competition.

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## dclark

why is everyone over looking super pastel lavender? that could explain the yellow and i dont think the super pas lavs head fades out or does it?

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## sookieball

super pastels have a serious head fade, and lavender albino would have red eyes. 

and as for the yellow... desert, enchi, fire, 

these too can bring out a srsly yellow gene to come out brighter than normal. 
its all too much of a guessing game!  :Rolleyes2:  :Rolleyes2:

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## TessadasExotics

> why is everyone over looking super pastel *lavender*? that could explain the yellow and i dont think the super pas lavs head fades out or does it?


Because Lavender Albinos don't have black.

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## dclark

good point! lol just showcasing my inexperience! :Embarassed:

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## Reps4life

All i know is that snake is SICK!!!

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## ace_singapore

From a businessman's point of view, trade secrets are priceless and should be kept as long as possible, thus more money.  From a hobbyist's point of view, sharing secrets and info will make you more friends.  What do you think he needs more??...

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## Subdriven

In a world of "Big boys" in this business he has a name to keep.  And this is a way of doing it.  Look at how many people talk about this snake on all the forums.  Noone else is mentioned because he is the only one that has made one!

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## Regal Pythons

I reckon it's a Super Enchi Desert Clown. It's beautiful whatever it is  :Smile:

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## Jeremy78

Spider? Comon who would waste a good snake by putting spider in it lol? And about the "who cares" attitude. I think it's great people are getting excited about the hobby! One more signature on the petition so I can keep my pets:

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## cappie49

tiger clown

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## LotsaBalls

I thought someone said it didn't have desert in it. 
Enchi Clown

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## mmateo

He tells you himself in clutch 84...

Look at mom shes a desert

Ever seen a desert clown now add super desert.  And yes there still could be a super desert its not proven dom or co dom yet.  Just because a super hasnt been proven yet...doesnt mean it cant make a super.

Pesonally i think a super desert would be an all orange/gold snake but since mom is a desert, it must be included in the genes.

Enchi clown would have purple in it, he already made a lesser/pos enchi clown, looks nothing like the flatline.  Enchi is not in mom or dads genes.

Like Ralph says its all in his birthing records.

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## blackcrystal22

> The whole "everyone will start making them" argument is ridiculous. You can't just start making animals that have a recessive trait combined with multiple other traits. It takes YEARS. One year just to make the morph het clowns, assuming you already have a BREEDING size male clown and BREEDER females of all the other morphs involved. Then you would still have to raise up the morph het clowns to breeding size. Why do you think we haven't seen the market flooded with panda pieds? Plenty of people are working on it, but it takes TIME. Brock blew everyone away with his lesser clowns a year ago, and the market hasn't exactly been flooded with lesser clowns yet, and it is just one codom with one recessive. We will probably see some in the 2011 season, but it is safe to say that "everyone" hasn't got that far yet. 
> 
> That being said, I can't blame Ralph for not releasing the recipe before he has even sold the animal or any sibs that would be helpful in producing another flatline, especially right before breeding season. Why not give yourself an extra season lead on the competition.


His competition is not you, or me, or 99% of the people on this forum.
His competition include the top breeders in this country who HAVE those breeding morphs available but have not found the combo yet.

Once a morph is created and released, one of the top breeders in the country may be able to produce it over the next two seasons or so. If the genetics are not released, those same breeders may not produce it for years and years simply by guesswork and chance, or until the details are released.  It is still a significant amount of extra time to produce a market for that particular animal.

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_hoax_ (01-12-2011)

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## LotsaBalls

> He tells you himself in clutch 84...
> 
> Look at mom shes a desert
> 
> Ever seen a desert clown now add super desert.  And yes there still could be a super desert its not proven dom or co dom yet.  Just because a super hasnt been proven yet...doesnt mean it cant make a super.
> 
> Pesonally i think a super desert would be an all orange/gold snake but since mom is a desert, it must be included in the genes.
> 
> Enchi clown would have purple in it, he already made a lesser/pos enchi clown, looks nothing like the flatline.  Enchi is not in mom or dads genes.
> ...


Clutch 84 says once he produces a clown form it will be off the chart sexy. Clutch 164 could have been an Enchi clown. Which I don't think anyone has made.

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## mmateo

How many clutches are classified...

Ralph also admits not every clutch is posted in the records.

Clutch 84 could of produced all yellow snakes or could have produced them from mom in the past 3 yrs she was bred.  Clown could of already been introduced.  Ralph multi breeds males to females all the time and admits in several clutchs dad may not be dad.  One thing Ralph does have is breeding adults already het for genes most of us can barely get our hands on now.  Most breeders he has are 3-6 yrs ahead of us.

Wether he tells or not it will take at least 6 yrs to reproduce.

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## Monster Dodge

If you were going to put a price tag on it today what would you think? I think this blows out the infamous "Soul Sucker" and I know what that goes for so my guess would be $35,000 for this :Wink:

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## mainbutter

> He tells you himself in clutch 84...
> 
> Look at mom shes a desert


Umm.. I don't see desert there, personally, but she may have something going on.

He's had something hidden going on with one or both of the parents' lines for 6 years, and deserts are a little more recent than that.

I was assuming some recessive trait that finally popped up.

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## hoax

> I'm with mykee on this one.
> 
> "Secret", "Classified" clutches and not relaying what makes up a snake genetically is just marketing.
> 
> I know if I produced the flatline, and was the first to do it, I'd have pics and ingredients all over the net.  This hobby has advanced to the great state it is through the sharing of information, not hiding it.
> 
> Chris


It is a great marketing strategy! This business was successful at making big bucks but now that ever Tom, Richard (it censored his nick name), and Harry are making great looking combo morphs the market took a giant dump, then throw in on top of it what the gov is doing to our hobby and that finished it off. There are still some great money making combos out there but they are soon cut down (price) due to everyone knowing what makes the next big thing and flooding the market within a few years. 

We will use a Mystic for example when I first looked at getting one I was told by a friend who had them (before people even knew about them in mass) and inquired with that person now just a few short years later they are common and valued at about half as much.

If these guys like NERD, BHB, and Ralph are making killer morphs from their hard work and ability to make a specific morph then I would say they are STUPID if they just go directly to BP.net and post pictures of their new creation before it gets its first shed and what the ingredients are.

Just my humble opinion,
Mike

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## mainbutter

> This business was successful at making big bucks *because* every Tom, :cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r:, and Harry *can reproduce* great looking combo morphs


Fixed  :Razz: 

If it wasn't the case that these morphs were reproducible, the market would have never become what it is today.

So-called "basement breeders" are the cause of both the rise and fall of BP morph prices.  The big bucks would have never happened, and will not continue to happen, without them.

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_hoax_ (01-12-2011)

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## Subdriven

Looking through ralphs site..   his desert pastels have that same yellow..  just too much pattern!

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## Subdriven

And clutch 84 says "I will say that when I finally produce the "Clown Version" of this one.......it's gonna be off the charts sexy!!!"   So clown can't be in the flateline if you are saying it's clutch 84...

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## TheReptileEnthusiast

> *His competition is not you, or me, or 99% of the people on this forum.*His competition include the top breeders in this country who HAVE those breeding morphs available but have not found the combo yet.
> 
> Once a morph is created and released, one of the top breeders in the country may be able to produce it over the next two seasons or so. If the genetics are not released, those same breeders may not produce it for years and years simply by guesswork and chance, or until the details are released.  It is still a significant amount of extra time to produce a market for that particular animal.


You just restated my exact point. "*Everyone*" will not be making them *next year* by any stretch of the imagination whether or not he releases the genetics. The argument I was refuting is that if he releases the genes "everyone will be making them next year". *Everyone* does not have an enchi het clown male and a breeder female clown ready to go(for example). I totally agree with your statement above and clearly stated that I don't blame Ralph for not releasing the genes for the same reasons you stated.

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## TheReptileEnthusiast

> He tells you himself in clutch 84...
> 
> Look at mom shes a desert
> 
> Ever seen a desert clown now add super desert.  And yes there still could be a super desert its not proven dom or co dom yet.  Just because a super hasnt been proven yet...doesnt mean it cant make a super.
> 
> Pesonally i think a super desert would be an all orange/gold snake but since mom is a desert, it must be included in the genes.
> 
> *Enchi clown would have purple in it*, *he already made a lesser/pos enchi clown*, looks nothing like the flatline.  Enchi is not in mom or dads genes.
> ...


What makes you think an enchi clown would have purple in it? Neither enchi nor clown bring out purple. Enchi is known for turning up the yellow and reducing pattern(per NERD).

Also the "lesser/pos enchi clown" you referred to is a lesser clown. It looks just like the lesser clowns Brock produced in 2009(Brock even said it looked like his lesser clowns). It couldn't have both lesser and enchi because only one sire can fertilize each egg. The purple you see in the hatchling lesser clowns comes from the lesser. Genes in the BEL complex often have a purplish tinge as hatchlings.

For the record, my first thought when I saw the flatline was pastel desert clown. Enchi clown came to mind soon afterward. I still believe it is either a pastel desert clown, an enchi clown, a pastel enchi clown, a desert enchi clown, or a pastel desert enchi clown.

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## RemysBalls

pastel x super enchi x fire x clown 

The picture is a pastel x  super enchi x fire if you added clown in there for the markings you could have the snake

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## RemysBalls

It could possibly have been from clutch 164 at least of all the cluthes listed that seems the only one likely to me. The enchi clown could look like that.

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## LotsaBalls

> pastel x super enchi x fire x clown 
> 
> The picture is a pastel x  super enchi x fire if you added clown in there for the markings you could have the snake


That was my first guess. :Good Job:

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## The Hedgehog

Whether or not he releases the genetics of the snake today, or 2-3 years from now, or if ever, it's still awesome to see this forum do "Detective work" if you will.  Personally, I think it's awesome, and even if you think he shouldn't hide what it is, that's his choice, no one else's on this forum.  That's a whole other argument though.

*Continue on*

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## Tempestas

I've got a rough idea on what's going on but it's something I won't discuss but I will say I think it's something to do with an old project of Ralph's just takes a bit of looking around to find out.

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## TessadasExotics

Neo?   :Taz:

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## Mrgbb

its a bumble bee clown.

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## The Hedgehog

> its a bumble bee clown.


What makes you say that?

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## alkibp

> pastel x super enchi x fire x clown 
> 
> The picture is a pastel x  super enchi x fire if you added clown in there for the markings you could have the snake


What if you added spider and got a real reduced pattern like on some caliders?

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## sookieball

Im happy my thread is still alive. And i take it the answer is still NO. He hasnt spilled the beans. 

Has he at least updated pics? 

Sent from my SCH-R910 using Tapatalk

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## kellysballs

If it's clutch 84. Mom is a pastel sib with a neat pattern (possibly desert) and grandma is a captive hatch or import baby with a neat pattern (possibly desert). My vote is pastel desert clown. I think the het clown was in 04 pastel fem #1 from either her mom (99 import fem or pastel male grandsire). I haven't checked out clutch 164 yet.

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## Rorschach

That's why Ralphs the king and the rest are just NERDs  :ROFL:

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## Freakie_frog

And then there is this..

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## The Hedgehog

> If it's clutch 84. Mom is a pastel sib with a neat pattern (possibly desert) and grandma is a captive hatch or import baby with a neat pattern (possibly desert). My vote is pastel desert clown. I think the het clown was in 04 pastel fem #1 from either her mom (99 import fem or pastel male grandsire). I haven't checked out clutch 164 yet.


 I don't think it's Clutch 84.  Especially because in the description he says "When I finally produce a clown version of this, it will be off the charts..." or something like that.



> And then there is this..


 Desert Clown?  That's hot!!  A little more yellow and you have Ralph's animal almost.

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## LotsaBalls

Anyone hear anything yet?

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## Drewp

Has to have clown in it... might have some sort of reduced pattern mutation too.  Simon Hamelin here in Canada makes some amazing reduced pattern clowns and the pattern reminds me a bit of his.  The yellow is ridiculous, must be super pastel... and probably one or two more things... fire, yellowbelly, enchi... something like that.  :Bowdown: 

Thats the kind of snake you produce and say... ok, we don't need to try to cross anything else in.  Its prefect.  Just make more.

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## VicShell

what if it something like the magpie that nerd created this year kinda similar and nerd said no clown in it the magpie that is here is a link to a photo


http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...type=1&theater

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## Orlandoflor

this is what it is it is desert phantom clown if you see his records he has made deserts het clown and has phantom het clowns that he produce i bet the phantom mixed with desert and clown make the snake more yellow that what i think or add pastel too of those for sure !!! :Good Job:

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## aaronsmo13

> pastel x super enchi x fire x clown 
> 
> The picture is a pastel x  super enchi x fire if you added clown in there for the markings you could have the snake


I totally agree! I've seen this combo before and instantly thought if ya just add some clown in there, its the flatline!  :Good Job:

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## TheReptileEnthusiast

> I totally agree! I've seen this combo before and instantly thought if ya just add some clown in there, its the flatline!


On the right track, but it is *highly* unlikely it is _super_ enchi.  The odds of hitting a super recessive with two other codom genes thrown in are just ridiculous, not to mention that you would have to raise a female up to produce a super. The odds are almost nill if you are only using animals with all those genes that are just het clowns, and we haven't seen a visual enchi clown yet. 

Firefly enchi clown is a little more plausible since you could hit it with a male fire enchi  het clown to a female pastel clown or something to that effect.

My money is on something simpler like a firefly clown, a pastel enchi clown, or a pastel desert clown.

We will see a super enchi fire pastel clown eventually, but I think we will see visual examples of more than just the pastel clown first(enchi clown, fire clown, etc.).

----------


## Brass City Reptiles

Can someone pm me ralph web site pls would luv to see what u all r talking about pls and thank u

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## GPreptiles

I don't think it's on his website(http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/)  :Wink: 
Here is a vid (end of it):

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## Mattinho

> this is what it is it is desert phantom clown if you see his records he has made deserts het clown and has phantom het clowns that he produce i bet the phantom mixed with desert and clown make the snake more yellow that what i think or add pastel too of those for sure !!!


Yes!!
I read somewhere that when phantom is mixed with spider it makes them really yellow.

So Mixing Desert (super clean yellow already).... Phantom (Brightens the yellow) and Clown (also brings yellow out) could be it!

Good research man  :Good Job: 

Anyone got any views on this?

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## aaronsmo13

> On the right track, but it is *highly* unlikely it is _super_ enchi.  The odds of hitting a super recessive with two other codom genes thrown in are just ridiculous, not to mention that you would have to raise a female up to produce a super. The odds are almost nill if you are only using animals with all those genes that are just het clowns, and we haven't seen a visual enchi clown yet. 
> 
> Firefly enchi clown is a little more plausible since you could hit it with a male fire enchi  het clown to a female pastel clown or something to that effect.
> 
> My money is on something simpler like a firefly clown, a pastel enchi clown, or a pastel desert clown.
> 
> We will see a super enchi fire pastel clown eventually, but I think we will see visual examples of more than just the pastel clown first(enchi clown, fire clown, etc.).


Unfortunately, I realized this as I thought about it more. I imagine it isn't anything possibly that complex with a recessive. If it is, he prayed pretty hard to the snake gods! But it is definitely insane!  :Smile: 




> Yes!!
> I read somewhere that when phantom is mixed with spider it makes them really yellow.
> 
> So Mixing Desert (super clean yellow already).... Phantom (Brightens the yellow) and Clown (also brings yellow out) could be it!
> 
> Good research man 
> 
> Anyone got any views on this?


Does anyone have any idea what a desert phantom actually looks like?? I tried looking on google but couldn't find anything.

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## Mattinho

No one has owned up to making one ...yet. Of all the 'Big' breeders I think Ralph would be the first with most Phantom combos. 

Check out Phantom Spiders they are so yellow! 

Also if you look through his records you can see he has a few Phantom projects going and thets not including his private ones.

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## aaronsmo13

> No one has owned up to making one ...yet. Of all the 'Big' breeders I think Ralph would be the first with most Phantom combos. 
> 
> Check out Phantom Spiders they are so yellow! 
> 
> Also if you look through his records you can see he has a few Phantom projects going and thets not including his private ones.


I'm surprised no one has. I think they've got tons of potential.

And after looking more into the phantom/spiders, i can see it. Throw a clown in there, and that there might very well be it!  :Good Job:

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## TheReptileEnthusiast

The only question I would have about a desert phantom clown is how long ago did Ralph produce the phantom het clowns and desert het clowns. One would have to be an adult female in the pairing.

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## Mattinho

> The only question I would have about a desert phantom clown is how long ago did Ralph produce the phantom het clowns and desert het clowns. One would have to be an adult female in the pairing.



I know he made a male Phantom het Clown last season as I asked about them  :Razz:  So i'm sure he has made more as he seems to put most things to his Phantoms.

As for a Desert het Clown female.... they have been around for a while (Deserts) so its not hard to imagine him having one hidden away in his racks from 3+ years ago.

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## LotsaBalls

> I know he made a male Phantom het Clown last season as I asked about them  So i'm sure he has made more as he seems to put most things to his Phantoms.
> 
> As for a Desert het Clown female.... they have been around for a while (Deserts) so its not hard to imagine him having one hidden away in his racks from 3+ years ago.


Well with this line of thinking, it would resolve a few threads. That female deserts can lay viable eggs and what the Flatline is.

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## Mattinho

> Well with this line of thinking, it would resolve a few threads. That female deserts can lay viable eggs and what the Flatline is.


Is there evidence they can't? 
Also I didn't state that he bred a female Desert.. Only that he and others have created both Desert het Clown and Phantom Het Clown  :Very Happy:

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## LotsaBalls

> Is there evidence they can't? 
> Also I didn't state that he bred a female Desert.. Only that he and others have created both Desert het Clown and Phantom Het Clown


No evidence that they can't, but the concern has come up in a couple threads I have read. No one that I know of has posted pictures or said they have had a female produce. I'm not saying they can't, just what I heard.

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## aaronsmo13

> No evidence that they can't, but the concern has come up in a couple threads I have read. No one that I know of has posted pictures or said they have had a female produce. I'm not saying they can't, just what I heard.


It'd be nice to know if he or anyone has a few large adult female deserts that have bred with good results!

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## Orlandoflor

hey every listen up! lol  He has had the phantom for some time now and clown has been out for a long time he could have made a female phantom het clown and get a male desert het clown in this short time they were out and boom you got flatline

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## TheReptileEnthusiast

> hey every listen up! lol  He has had the phantom for some time now and clown has been out for a long time he could have made a female phantom het clown and get a male desert het clown in this short time they were out and boom you got flatline


I am aware that he has had deserts and clowns and phantoms for a long time, what I asked is WHEN did he produce phantom het clowns and desert het clowns. The first desert het clowns I have heard of were in 2009 and none of those are breeder females yet. When did he produce the phantom het clowns? One of the two had to be a female :Smile: .

Of course Ralph could have had a desert or phantom het clown "hidden away" that he didn't tell anyone about, but you would think he would have produced a phantom clown or desert clown(with the male) if this was the case. 

I'm starting to lean towards pastel enchi clown. There are plenty of big pastel clown females and we already know he made enchi het clowns. Male enchi het clown to female pastel clown. Pastel enchis glow when they are hatchlings and young clowns have alot of yellow as well.

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## Orlandoflor

the thing is that at his website he does not show 08 clutches or older he could have made a phantom het clown girl in one of those and then in the 09 season that was one of the sercet  clutches or something like that but we dont know he could have gotten a desert het clown male but your right if its not this it could be a pastel enchi clown the pastel echi are really bright when they are young and then just add clown but i think its one of those two. there might be more morphs in there but very unlickly unless he has the best luck in the word and he hit the combo!

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## Orlandoflor

> Of course Ralph could have had a desert or phantom het clown "hidden away" that he didn't tell anyone about, but you would think he would have produced a phantom clown or desert clown(with the male) if this was the case. 
> 
> l.


im aware of he could have some phantom clowns and desert clown but i bet he thought he would show flatline it would be better to show LOL but any way i should get a phantom male from ralph davis by the end of this month to work into my clown projects lol come to me in 2 years and i see what flatline is lol wish me luck lol!

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## TheReptileEnthusiast

> im aware of he could have some phantom clowns and desert clown but i bet he thought he would show flatline it would be better to show LOL but any way i should get a phantom male from ralph davis by the end of this month to work into my clown projects lol come to me in 2 years and i see what flatline is lol wish me luck lol!


Not what I meant. When he produced the phantom het clowns and desert het clowns he would have been able to throw a male at a female clown or a female pastel clown long before the female hets grew up.

Two years? You must have some adult female clowns if you plan on making a flatline that quick.

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## dr del

Hi,.




> the thing is that at his website he does not show 08 clutches or older he could have made a phantom het clown girl in one of those and then in the 09 season that was one of the sercet  clutches or something like that but we dont know he could have gotten a desert het clown male but your right if its not this it could be a pastel enchi clown the pastel echi are really bright when they are young and then just add clown but i think its one of those two. there might be more morphs in there but very unlickly unless he has the best luck in the word and he hit the combo!


He does have pics in some of the older clutches.

http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/birthing_record/ 


dr del

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## TheReptileEnthusiast

Of course you could produce a phantom desert clown much faster by just breeding a male phantom desert to a female clown and hoping for a male phantom desert het clown, then breeding him back to a female clown, but noone mentioned any such breeding in Ralph's birthing records.

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## TheReptileEnthusiast

Orlandoflor- that phantom clown project sounds like a good one, enjoy. I've got some so far undone clown combos brewing as well, although if the flatline has enchi in it Ralph already beat me to one of them!

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## Orlandoflor

> Hi,.
> 
> 
> 
> He does have pics in some of the older clutches.
> 
> http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/birthing_record/ 
> 
> 
> dr del


give me some time and i waste part of my life lookingthrough them lol any way i got something to do but when i come back ill see if i can figure what flatine is ! :Good Job:

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## Orlandoflor

well i skimed through the years got to 04 then stop could not find some stuff that leads to flatline but i bet that it in those classified ones but i did find that in 08 he made some enchi males and female het clown they are in page five if anyone want to see them they are hot !

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_TheReptileEnthusiast_ (05-13-2011)

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## TheReptileEnthusiast

Wow, enchi het clowns way back in '08? For some reason I was thinking it was in 09'. The super enchi clown could very well have been made in '10. Did you notice his comment?

 "I think the "Super Enchi Pastel Clown" will be SICK!!." Note that he uses the old school "Enchi Pastel" to refer to the enchi morph, so he is referring to wanting to make a super enchi clown. 

Could he have been patient enough to hold off on breeding one of the males to a clown in '09 so he could go strait to the super?  Actually I remember he bred an enchi het clown male and a lesser het clown male to the same female and the lesser ended up being the father. Maybe he just struck out in '09 on the enchi clown and the female enchi het clown was likely ready to go in '10, so he went for the super and hit it.

Those enchi het clowns ARE hot btw.

Also in the pic of the mommy clown on the eggs she is very reduced.

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## Orlandoflor

> Wow, enchi het clowns way back in '08? For some reason I was thinking it was in 09'. The super enchi clown could very well have been made in '10. Did you notice his comment?
> 
>  "I think the "Super Enchi Pastel Clown" will be SICK!!." Note that he uses the old school "Enchi Pastel" to refer to the enchi morph, so he is referring to wanting to make a super enchi clown. 
> 
> Could he have been patient enough to hold off on breeding one of the males to a clown in '09 so he could go strait to the super?  Actually I remember he bred an enchi het clown male and a lesser het clown male to the same female and the lesser ended up being the father. Maybe he just struck out in '09 on the enchi clown and the female enchi het clown was likely ready to go in '10, so he went for the super and hit it.
> 
> Those enchi het clowns ARE hot btw.
> 
> Also in the pic of the mommy clown on the eggs she is very reduced.


i know by heart he already has a enchi clown how do i know you say like you said before he has like 2 clutches of 2010 of when he bred a pastel het clown a lesser het clown and a enchi het clown to a female het clown of the first one we see that he made a lesser clown but then at a different clutch same males to female het clown but he put it in his classifieds that mean he got some enchi clowns why hide it if they were just lesser or pastel clowns . and yeah flatline could possibly be a super enchi clown like the 08 enchis by now those female whould be ready and make some nice clown comos just get one of those enchi girls by now they are way big enough and then breed his pastel het clown male that he put as a sire then boom you got flatline



Pastel Enchi Clown 

or something close to that!

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## flatsix02

So I've been doing some messing around on the genetic wizard, and I feel like I may be on the right track, but I could be wrong.

Pair a male Spinner het clown, and breed it to a het clown, and the pattern is VERY similar to his snake. "Clown Spider" is the result. If you look at that pattern and slightly reduced it, and add the yellow, you have Ralph's snake.

The question is, where is the bright yellow coming from and whats causing the slightly reduced pattern? Pastel maybe for the color? 

Just my 2 cents.

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## Mattinho

Ralph often says he doesn't put every clutch he has on his birthing records. The only place he puts every clutch is on his wall. Also none of his classified clutches have pics of anything but normals.

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## TheReptileEnthusiast

> i know by heart he already has a enchi clown how do i know you say like you said before he has like 2 clutches of 2010 of when he bred a pastel het clown a lesser het clown and a enchi het clown to a female het clown of the first one we see that he made a lesser clown but then at a different clutch same males to female het clown but he put it in his classifieds that mean he got some enchi clowns why hide it if they were just lesser or pastel clowns . and yeah flatline could possibly be a super enchi clown like the 08 enchis by now those female whould be ready and make some nice clown comos just get one of those enchi girls by now they are way big enough and then breed his pastel het clown male that he put as a sire then boom you got flatline
> 
> 
> Pastel Enchi Clown 
> 
> or something close to that!


I think he stuck out in 2009 with the enchi clown. However, he probably hit the enchi clown with clutch number 164 that hatched on Sept 23, 2010.  It was enchi, lesser, and pastel het clown males bred to a visual clown female. Like you said, he wouldn't have classified the results if there wasn't an enchi clown produced because everyone has already seen lesser clowns and pastel clowns. Heck, the flatline could very well just be the enchi clown, you never know how 2 genes will interact. It would explain why he is being so secretive, because if it is just a simple enchi clown, everyone with a female enchi and male clown would be putting them together this season. The flatline video was posted in October just one month after clutch 164 hatched.

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## Mattinho

> I think he stuck out in 2009 with the enchi clown. However, he probably hit the enchi clown with clutch number 164 that hatched on Sept 23, 2010.  It was enchi, lesser, and pastel het clown males bred to a visual clown female. Like you said, he wouldn't have classified the results if there wasn't an enchi clown produced because everyone has already seen lesser clowns and pastel clowns. Heck, the flatline could very well just be the enchi clown, you never know how 2 genes will interact. It would explain why he is being so secretive, because if it is just a simple enchi clown, everyone with a female enchi and male clown would be putting them together this season. The flatline video was posted in October just one month after clutch 164 hatched.


Thats a good point I guess the only way we will know is if someone else hits an enchi clown this season. imagine the possibillities if its only an enchi clown!

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## Orlandoflor

i guess its time to get a female enchi to add to my clown projects ! :Good Job:  lol

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## Mattinho

Amen to that :Very Happy:  going to have to buy a male Clown now lol

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## LotsaBalls

Maybe a Super Enchi Clown? He hatched Enchi het clowns in 08. And no one has posted an Enchi clown, which is weird. They should have been made by now.

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## scratchypen

Not that weird considering nobody has even bothered making a mojave clown yet.  :Eyepopping:

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## sookieball

:Very Happy: 

10K views on a post of mine...

i feel special. 


anywho, I WILL SELL MY VITAL ORGANS TO ANYONE WHO CAN PRODUCE UPDATED PICTURES OF THIS LITTLE DEAMON WE ENVY!

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## Genetics Breeder

> 


http://www.worldofballpythons.com/mo...mpagne-pastel/

I found it.

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## CatandDiallo

> http://www.worldofballpythons.com/mo...mpagne-pastel/
> 
> I found it.


That's not it.
The head is all wrong, and the stripe is also wrong.

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## JLC

> http://www.worldofballpythons.com/mo...mpagne-pastel/
> 
> I found it.


Yeah...definitely...not.  I'm quite sure there is no champ in Ralph's snake.  Champagne muddies up a morph, and Ralph's is clean as a whistle.  

I wonder if the reason no one knows yet what's in it, is because Ralph himself may not know.  Depending on the number of genes involved in the parents, he may not be 100% sure which genes are expressing themselves.

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Jdog (09-08-2011)

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## wolfy-hound

I'd like to at least know it's alive and well, maybe on it's way to breeding more of itself. Even if he doesn't reveal what made it, just knowing there's still the possibility of more one day, I'd be pleased as punch.

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## Orlandoflor

IM 99.9999999999999% SURE ON WHAT IT IS but its but im keeping that to my self lol

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## sookieball

Soooooooooo..... has he spilled the beans yet? 

Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk

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## h00blah

Nope! But i still like to poke guesses XD

i vote super enchi pastel clown  :Very Happy: 

MAYBE spider, but i don't see it going that far yet :p

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## sookieball

> Nope! But i still like to poke guesses XD
> 
> i vote super enchi pastel clown 
> 
> MAYBE spider, but i don't see it going that far yet :p


ThT head pattern screens spider. 
Buuuuuuuuuuuuuut
Idk... 

There has to be someone that ABSOLUTELY KNOWS what it is. 

Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk

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## Brandon Osborne

The champagne pastel calico has a striking resemblance to the flatline.

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## adamjeffery

ive been saying super enchi clown and possably pastel since this guy popped out. im sticking with it.
adam jeffery

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## LotsaBalls

> The champagne pastel calico has a striking resemblance to the flatline.


The head pattern is wrong though. Tangerine (orange dream) Enchi spider clown.

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## Brandon Osborne

> The head pattern is wrong though. Tangerine (orange dream) Enchi spider clown.


How does anyone know the head pattern is wrong if we only have one version to go by. Not to mention, the picture is kinda crappy. I'm thinking super pastel calico champagne. With the banding on enchis, I just don't see it and clown being the combo. All we can do is speculate.

What really gets me is some of these guys have some of the most beautiful and unique snakes in the world and don't take 5 minutes to snap some decent pictures. Plan a day and update. :Good Job:

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## snake lab

Something killerclown

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## LotsaBalls

> How does anyone know the head pattern is wrong if we only have one version to go by. Not to mention, the picture is kinda crappy. I'm thinking super pastel calico champagne. With the banding on enchis, I just don't see it and clown being the combo. All we can do is speculate.
> 
> What really gets me is some of these guys have some of the most beautiful and unique snakes in the world and don't take 5 minutes to snap some decent pictures. Plan a day and update.


The champ calico has no pattern on its head. NERD made a snake, called the Asystole or something like that. (means flatline) that's a spider clown het red something.
Most big breeders do show alot of their stuff (not trying to kiss up to anyone) but I hear what your saying.

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## slithering house

super blast killer clown maby

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## Brandon Osborne

> The champ calico has no pattern on its head. NERD made a snake, called the Asystole or something like that. (means flatline) that's a spider clown het red something.
> Most big breeders do show alot of their stuff (not trying to kiss up to anyone) but I hear what your saying.


I've seen the Asystole. It also has no pattern on it's head.

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## LotsaBalls

> I've seen the Asystole. It also has no pattern on it's head.


I wouldn't say no pattern, very very reduced pattern. Variations like seen in killer bees. the champ combos have that dark head like a super mojo. I agree the color is a good match though. Check out Ralph's tangerine Enchi spiders.

----------

