# Other Pythons > Giant Pythons >  Dwarf/Super Dwarf Retic Questions!

## Konotashi

I've always been fascinated and admired reticulated pythons' beauty, but thought I'd never be able to own one, simply due to their size. Then I discovered the existence of D/SD retics, and my dream of possibly owning one _lives_!  :Very Happy:  

I just have a few questions. Since they're long snakes, rather than just massive beasts (like Burms or anacondas), approximately how much would a retic weigh at 6 feet? 12 feet? They're not a robust snake, so I can't really compare them to other snakes of the same length.... 

Also, when a D/SD retic reaches maturity (size-wise), what do you feed them? Small rabbits, or several large rats? They don't look like they'd be able to eat very large prey - they're just LONG. 

As far as what I've read, everything else about the dwarfs seems to be the same as with the normals, aside from size. 
Any pointers you guys could give me would be a huge bonus, though! 

Thank you in advance!

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## Tfpets

My dwarf is just over 6 feet now and he weighs less than my largest female ball. Not sure on exact numbers, but he's certainly not the thinnest retic I've seen at his length. I might need to break out the scale soon! At this point he is on large rats weekly. I would imagine he will get to multiple large rats at some point and possibly small rabbits. My burm is about 10 feet and about 45 lbs right now. She has been on rabbits since she was 6 feet long. The way the retic is going, I don't think he will ever weigh as much as the burm does now,  even if he gets to 12 feet. Although if I fed him as much as he would like, he might get to 100 lbs!

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## reptileexperts

:Snake:  :Snake:  :Snake:  :Snake: 

Made this video for such questions! Super Dwarfs stay fairly slim and do not get over the 15kg spectrum as breeding females for 50% crosses, and usually stay at or below 10kg for breeding sized pure line females. Dwarf can and do get rather large and robust, just like their mainland counter parts, but it also depends on how you raise them. My biggest Dwarf is around 2,5-2,7m and eating 1kg rabbits weekly. She's currently fairly trim, and getting moved to a Vision 600 at the end of this week., so she'll add a lot more size to her rather quick over the next couple of months. 

In contrast, my 6 year old male tiger 50% SD is 3 meters and weighs around 7kg respecitvely.  Again though my pure Anery SD male who is hitting 2 years in age is sub 2m (roughly 5 ft) and weighs less than 1kg! He stays in a CB70 tub and pounds large rats weekly without showing any more signs of growth. 

There is a size catagory and morph that can fit most. But the smaller the size, and the rarer the SD morph, the more you will pay - think around 1,200 for a 50% SD Albino male this season white phase, and 5k for a Purple phase 62.5% SD het Anery (snow), and upwards of 8-9k for a SD Snow (Albino Anery) retic. 

However, you can get Tiger 50% SD's for relatively cheap now - 450, and super tigers a lot cheaper than say even a year ago - 900 usd. But those are in quite a demand and I believe have sold out from the main supplier in the US this season (Travis Kubes Pythons)

My 50% sd Adult eats a 1kg rabbit once a month, and a XXL Rat once a week. My Dwarf Girl eats a 1kg rabbit weekly, and my other retics are currently feeding on Jumbo Rat (except my Dwarf Goldenchild who is on Small rats, and my new Super Tiger Super Dwarf who is barely eating 2 rat pups a week).

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Konotashi (06-17-2013)

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## Konotashi

About 10 ft and less than 20 lbs? That's way lighter than I expected, haha. My main worry was that I'd get a dwarf (because I'm leaning more toward dwarf than super dwarf), and if it got to be 12 feet or more, I didn't want to have a 100+ lb. snake. But if that's it, then I could handle that! (I will admit, I likely way overestimated the weight for any snake species - I'm really bad at estimating stuff like that, LOL). 
My reasoning/logic behind that is that I want to be able to handle all of my snakes by myself and carry it without having to have help to simply move/transport it.

I really like the tigers, suntigers, and purple albinos. I LOVE the snows, but those are close to $10k right now. Maybe for my graduation present, depending on what prices look like in about 3 years from now, I may ask for a dwarf retic instead of a RTB. ('Cause most lipstick junglows are already cheaper than the retics I like).  :Smile: 

ETA: Watching the videos, I love how 'disruptive' they are. Haha. They seem like a handful (in a good way). LOVE IT.  :Very Happy:

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## snakesRkewl

I just held a super dwarf at my buddy Brian Breikss(Simple man on this forum) house this weekend and going by her small size I doubt she could eat a large rat and I doubt he's feeding her that large. She's no more than about 4-5 lbs and 6 feet long. 
His male is smaller and flightier but the female is so chill I held her for awhile and man was it kewl!

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## Pyrate81

Cool video.  Cool looking snakes in the vid as well.  Almost makes me want to get a retic.   :Wink:

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## reptileexperts

Just remember they Are still very fast very smart snakes. Even super dwarf retics require great care and respect. 


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## Mike41793

How are they smart?

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## reptileexperts

Escape artist. They are quick to condition with food. And almost always look you in the eyes. 


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_Mike41793_ (06-17-2013)

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## Konotashi

How slim are they supposed to be? I know they're supposed to be thin, but how do you know when they're too thin or if they're overweight?

And I'll have some type of locks on all of my cages. My sister had a king snake whose name SHOULD have been Houdini!! She spent more time escaped than in a cage! (Not exaggerating, either). I don't want to deal with that, EVER. Especially with a retic - dwarf or not.

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## reptileexperts

They stay relative thin but will still have girth. Males should not typically be wider than an XXl rat. Females may be as thick as a. 2-3 lb rabbit for 50% crosses on SD and up to a football thickness for dwarf females who are ready to breed. 


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## Konotashi

What's the AVERAGE size (length and weight) of captive reticulated pythons? (Normals, not D/SDs). 

The more I think about it, the more I think I might be able to take on a full sized retic. (After I get more experience with owning snakes in general, of course!)  :Wink: 
I'm realizing that I've set a lot of plans for myself. I've been wanting to breed rabbits and rats for a while, both to sell as pets and to keep as feeders for my animals. My ferrets eat an entirely raw/whole prey diet, but I figure a raw meal for my cat and dog here and there wouldn't hurt.  :Smile:  

That being said, if I breed my own stock, I don't think I'd have an issue feeding a giant python. That's where another worry was coming from. Obviously I'm going to see where I'm at financially when I'm out of college and stable and whatnot, but these are my plans. (Hopefully everything goes as planned, haha). 

I'm just having a LOT of trouble finding out what the WEIGHT of these snakes are. The length isn't as big of an issue for me as the weight is. All I can really find is a record breaking 300+ lb. retic. But I want the AVERAGE, not record breakers. :/

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## Konotashi

Can't edit that post, but are dwarfs available in the caramel color? 

I keep thinking and swinging back and forth between dwarfs and normals, haha. Good thing I have a lot of time to do a lot of thinking!  :Smile: 
Caramels are definitely my favorite morph, though!

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## reptileexperts

Caramels are only mainland right now. Not many people working them into SD / Dwarf lines simple because info caramel is so easy to get wc right now it seems and a lot of people are after that I suppose. 

Average weight and length for a mainland is a very hard answer to generalize. Mainly because you have male and females that are so different in themselves then you have caging and feeding differences. Id suggest your average male to get around 13' and 30 lb and your average female 17' and 80-120lb depending on breeding or not. 


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## Konotashi

> Caramels are only mainland right now. Not many people working them into SD / Dwarf lines simple because info caramel is so easy to get wc right now it seems and a lot of people are after that I suppose. 
> 
> Average weight and length for a mainland is a very hard answer to generalize. Mainly because you have male and females that are so different in themselves then you have caging and feeding differences. Id suggest your* average male to get around 13' and 30 lb and your average female 17' and 80-120lb* depending on breeding or not. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What's WC mean? 

THAT'S IT???? (And I know that's a very, very general generalization).  :Wink:  

And whoa, that's a huge difference between males and females, haha. 

Again, I know this depends on the individual (sorry for all of the vague questions!), but as far as pets go, which of the two genders tends to be more mellow for pet purposes? Or does it really just depends on each individual snake?

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## reptileexperts

Females are a lot more mellow but get larger and heavier and require a lot more food. Add into that females tend to have a lot stronger feeding response. 

Males on the flip side are generally calm but become devils during breeding season. I breezed out of an attack by my 10' tiger male who's in breeding mode a couple weeks back now. I prefer my females to my males any day of the week to be honest. 


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## reptileexperts

Also: WC = wild caught

And "that's it?" Is not a generally good response on such an inquiry. These snakes are large and very quick. They are not like a 200lb obese Burmese who sits still and lunges at threats slowly... These guys move quicker than any snakes I've ever worked with... Almost on par with some of the fastest striking vipers IMO 


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## Konotashi

> Females are a lot more mellow but get larger and heavier and require a lot more food. Add into that females tend to have a lot stronger feeding response. 
> 
> Males on the flip side are generally calm but become devils during breeding season. I breezed out of an attack by my 10' tiger male who's in breeding mode a couple weeks back now. I prefer my females to my males any day of the week to be honest. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'll have to look up videos or something on their feeding response. My ball and kingsnake I had in the past were slow and I had to wait around for them to take the mouse. I'm going to assume, from what I've read, that is definitely NOT the case with retics. 

And I'll assume that their brains go into sex mode whether females around or not? If that's the case, I'll go the female route. (Probably dwarf). I intend on breeding my own feeders (both rats and rabbits - I planned on getting into rabbit breeding before I wanted snakes), so I can sell 'leftovers' as feeders or pets. 




> Also: WC = wild caught
> 
> And "that's it?" Is not a generally good response on such an inquiry. These snakes are large and very quick. They are not like a 200lb obese Burmese who sits still and lunges at threats slowly... These guys move quicker than any snakes I've ever worked with... Almost on par with some of the fastest striking vipers IMO 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Don't wild caught snakes tend to be more aggressive and less suitable for pet purposes? I know most people don't get retics as 'pets' per say, but just thought I'd ask that. 

I apologize for responding that way. I was expecting them to weigh at _least_ 100 lbs at that length, but I fully understand that given the size of these snakes, they will require the utmost respect and I'll need to take safety measures when handling them, no matter how much I may 'trust' one. I've been around burms, so I was trying my best to compare their size without really comparing the two, if that makes sense. The "THAT'S IT???" stemmed from my surprise that they weren't anywhere near as large (weight-wise) as I was expecting. My apologies.  :Peace:

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## Pampho85

> I'll have to look up videos or something on their feeding response. My ball and kingsnake I had in the past were slow and I had to wait around for them to take the mouse. I'm going to assume, from what I've read, that is definitely NOT the case with retics.


I've seen retics that aren't very fast strikers, but most generally are I'd say. Definitely don't want to use your hands on a large one.




> And I'll assume that their brains go into sex mode whether females around or not? If that's the case, I'll go the female route. (Probably dwarf). I intend on breeding my own feeders (both rats and rabbits - I planned on getting into rabbit breeding before I wanted snakes), so I can sell 'leftovers' as feeders or pets.


Doesn't matter if they are or are not, just like many other animals they will go into breeding mode.




> Don't wild caught snakes tend to be more aggressive and less suitable for pet purposes? I know most people don't get retics as 'pets' per say, but just thought I'd ask that. 
> 
> I apologize for responding that way. I was expecting them to weigh at _least_ 100 lbs at that length, but I fully understand that given the size of these snakes, they will require the utmost respect and I'll need to take safety measures when handling them, no matter how much I may 'trust' one. I've been around burms, so I was trying my best to compare their size without really comparing the two, if that makes sense. The "THAT'S IT???" stemmed from my surprise that they weren't anywhere near as large (weight-wise) as I was expecting. My apologies.


Many tend to be aggressive, but there are ones that mellow out. People usually import for a new bloodline or for one that looks different than the others in hopes of being a new morph. And no matter if it's wild caught or CB make sure you have more than one person with you in the room when dealing with a large snake, retics have great feeding responses and if a large one latches onto your hand you won't be able to get it off alone. I know of some retic owners who keeps knives or guns in the pocket in case worse comes to worse but that would be the last option.

I don't own any retics but I've looked into them for a couple years now haha.

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## Konotashi

I've heard that alcohol is a good way to get a snake that latches on to let go. I'm not sure if that'll help much with the constricting part, but I imagine if you could get the head off, you could lead the rest off. (All just guesses, though! As I've said before, I have zero experience with giant snakes!) I don't doubt for a second though that if one of these snakes wanted to kill you, it could without trying. I would guess a good way to deal with the constricting part is to try and prevent it from wrapping around you in the first place? These are all just guess/questions, though.... 

Honestly, keeping a weapon just in case doesn't sound like a bad idea. As much as it would suck to have to resort to that (I couldn't imagine having to kill one of my babies to save myself), if I HAD to do it to save myself, then I would. 

I think it'd be best to get my balls first, then boas (to get used to larger snakes), then maybe get a dwarf. If I can handle a dwarf, depending on how that goes, I MAY get a mainland.  :Smile: 
All that being said, I do have a long way to go. But it's never too early to ask questions and research, right?  :Wink:

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## Rae

> I've heard that alcohol is a good way to get a snake that latches on to let go. I'm not sure if that'll help much with the constricting part, but I imagine if you could get the head off, you could lead the rest off. (All just guesses, though! As I've said before, I have zero experience with giant snakes!) I don't doubt for a second though that if one of these snakes wanted to kill you, it could without trying. I would guess a good way to deal with the constricting part is to try and prevent it from wrapping around you in the first place? These are all just guess/questions, though....


Alcohol works well with getting snakes off of you, but so does Listerine and hot water... Hot water is probably the safest to use, but not all snakes react the same to hot water/listerine/alcohol. 
Hot water's worked the best for me, though.

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## Pampho85

I don't know how exactly to protect against such a large snake constricting you so I won't take a guess. You should try handling some large retics first before you dive head in without knowing what you're truly getting into. Retics are smart, fast and strong. Nothing like Burms and Balls.

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## Konotashi

Listerine (aside from the alcohol free) is high in alcohol. 

I also heard hydrogen peroxide is another way to let a snake let go. 

Wouldn't hot water be more dangerous for a snake? (Risk of burn?) I'm not sure how much alcohol/Listerine/hydrogen peroxide a snake would need for it to be considered dangerous (or why, exactly?), but it seems like hot water could possibly cause more long term damage? 

I know snakes are an entirely different kind of animal, but I've given my dog hydrogen peroxide in an emergency to induce vomiting when he ingested some pieces of plastic off of a diving ring. The main drawback I could see with hydrogen peroxide is that after it's opened, if it's not used within a certain period of time, it oxidizes and turns into water. (Making it entirely useless if you need to go use it if it's been sitting there for a while).

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## Mike41793

> Alcohol works well with getting snakes off of you, but so does Listerine and hot water... Hot water is probably the safest to use, but not all snakes react the same to hot water/listerine/alcohol. 
> Hot water's worked the best for me, though.


Listerine works because of the alcohol in it. Its not like the minty fresh feeling bugs the snakes lol

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## Konotashi

> I don't know how exactly to protect against such a large snake constricting you so I won't take a guess. You should try handling some large retics first before you dive head in without knowing what you're truly getting into. Retics are smart, fast and strong. Nothing like Burms and Balls.


Definitely not going to go in head-first. I'll see if I can visit some shows (or reptile stores, even) and find some retics and see if I can handle/interact with some. Or heck, even just seeing them in person. It's really difficult to get a real feel for something through photos and videos. 

This isn't a species I'm taking lightly, as far as wanting to own. As much as I do want to have one, I know they require a lot of respect and planning, simply given their size and the power they possess because of it. Add their intelligence and speed on top of that....

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## reptileexperts

Yeah, you got the answers you need - retics are fast, nothing to be thought light of. I've had a few close calls but thanks to safety approaches nothing bad has happeend at this point. 

Getting large constrictors off is a tricky thing if you are by yourself. I don't always have people in the same room, but definitely within a shouting distance if I needed to yell for help. More than once I've yelled from a bite from a larger snake and had someone in the room within a few seconds (Boa to the face, and ball python adult that worked its way down my thumb, that was more of a shock factor than pain though). Nevertheless - Mouthwash with alcohol works fine, bucket of any water IF you can submerse the head (used this one before worked great) and as a last resort before anything lethal, get a hold of the tail and make it into a U, then grip it tight breaking the tail. The snake will be in too much discomfort to continue the attack and let go of the bite usually, giving one an opportunity to escape. 

Knives or guns in your pocket is just a risk to yourself. If a snake grabs on hand and then wraps you, there is no guarentee you will be able to reach into your pockets for anything. I use to keep a knife next to the cage I was working in when I first started working with larger snakes, but realized it was a foolsih thing to think I could do. Best to use experience, common sense, and safety tools like 40" tongs, python hooks, and in extreme cases handling gloves as needed.

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## Mike41793

This is a serious question: 
Would biting it back make it let go? If a retic latched on as a last resort I'm sure the thought to bite it would occur to me.

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## reptileexperts

Depends on where you bite it I'd be willing to bet. but I'm not sure that it would do deep enough damage. Think about when two snakes fight biting one another. . . its not always an immediate let go, in fact, they usually start biting one another more. . .

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## Mike41793

I fight dirty, i'd go for the junk!

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## reptileexperts

In order to keep this family friendly I will refrain from pointing out what you just put together . . . regarding biting and going for the junk . . .

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## Konotashi

Personally, I don't think biting back would be a good way to get a snake off. I imagine that sometimes (especially if they're fed live) their prey may land a decent bite on them every now and then. Their skin is tough, and it seems like our weak jaws paired with our flat teeth would only agitate the snake more and encourage it to hold on more/grip tighter. 

I plan on using tongs with all of my snakes for feeding (I've been nailed a few times from my past snakes missing their food), and I intend on getting a snake hook for any boas and large snakes so I can at least let them know I'm there before I go in to grab them. That way I can 1) Let the snake know I'm there, and 2) Get an idea of what mood the snake is in before attempting to handle it. 

On a side note, I e-mailed a few stores, and one of them got back to me. They said that they don't have retics, but one of their employees does and he would be willing to talk to me and would more than likely be willing to let me come down and see them, if not interact/handle them.  :Smile:

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## Wes

> Personally, I don't think biting back would be a good way to get a snake off. I imagine that sometimes (especially if they're fed live) their prey may land a decent bite on them every now and then. Their skin is tough, and it seems like our weak jaws paired with our flat teeth would only agitate the snake more and encourage it to hold on more/grip tighter. 
> 
> I plan on using tongs with all of my snakes for feeding (I've been nailed a few times from my past snakes missing their food), and I intend on getting a snake hook for any boas and large snakes so I can at least let them know I'm there before I go in to grab them. That way I can 1) Let the snake know I'm there, and 2) Get an idea of what mood the snake is in before attempting to handle it. 
> 
> On a side note, I e-mailed a few stores, and one of them got back to me. They said that they don't have retics, but one of their employees does and he would be willing to talk to me and would more than likely be willing to let me come down and see them, if not interact/handle them.


Make sure to get the longest tongs you can. I was using 18" tongs and my 50% sd girl shot right past the rat and grabbed my finger, and she was only about 4ft then. I use 30" tongs now and I have still had a couple close calls.

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## Mike41793

> In order to keep this family friendly I will refrain from pointing out what you just put together . . . regarding biting and going for the junk . . .


Before i even said that, i was talking about biting snakes. In my mind, the conversation was already at that point. There's a fine line between not biting hard enough and biting hard enough, i approve of the crossing of that line. There's the rubicon, go for it caesar!  :Wink:

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_reptileexperts_ (06-21-2013)

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## Konotashi

> Make sure to get the longest tongs you can. I was using 18" tongs and my 50% sd girl shot right past the rat and grabbed my finger, and she was only about 4ft then. I use 30" tongs now and I have still had a couple close calls.


Will do! Thanks for the tip!  :Wink:  

Kind of a random question, but are mini rexes and/or Holland lops okay to feed to retics? I imagine mini rexes would be fine, since they're just a smaller version of rex rabbits (which are meat rabbits) but not sure about Holland lops, due to how much fur they have. I ask, since these are the two breeds I plan on breeding in the future. 

I figure since my questions are all related to the same snake, I'd keep them all here instead of making a bajillion different threads.  :Smile:

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## reptileexperts

most breeds of rabbits - including meat rabbits - do just fine. New Zealands are probably the most common that I receive when I order frozen rabbits for my tics. Do not believe longer furred rabbits will be an issue as most of the fur is digested, with little bits sometimes coming out in the feces, but not too often.

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