# Colubrids > Hognose >  Surprise Clutch - Oh what fun!

## TJ_Burton

*Scenario:
*I came home from a long day at work, and as per the usually took a trip into my herp room to check on my snakes. I just recently did a massive clean up and room rearrangement to optimize things, and I wanted to see how everyone was doing post-shuffle. After going through my balls, I went on to my hoggies and took a look in everyone's bin. As per the usually a couple of the girls were stuffed into their shed/lay boxes where the humidity is a little higher (typical during shedding or prior to feeding as they root around looking for a meal). Something a little funny looking caught my eye when I took a peak into my larger girl's lay box (where she was at the time). I thought, that can't be right... I pulled out the lay box with her inside and cracked the lid off. Yep, she seems to have laid a clutch of slugs (knowing that I haven't paired her to any males since I acquired her late August of this year) but to my surprise, 2 of the 12 eggs were fertile. "Oh cool" I thought, at least this isn't a complete waste. Then I realized, wait... I have never paired her to any males. Hmmm… time to contact the previous owner. I tossed out the obvious duds (I candled them and they were green without a vein to speak of) and set up the old incubator a few months earlier than expected for the pair of mystery eggs.

I then contacted the previous owner who I acquired 3 hognose snakes from, two 'normal' female adults, and a small (35g) male double het snow. I asked if she had ever been paired to any males in his possession, and if so, how long ago it was and if he had witnessed any locks. He told me that in May of this year, he had put her into the small double het snow male's bin while he cleaned out her bin (he was a mere 25g at that time) but that he didn't see any lock and would be shocked if he managed to get anything done during that time frame. He also let me know that the 3 hogs I got from him were the only hogs he has ever owned, and that the female was in his possession for a year or so before that. So currently the only possible father is the double het snow male, who was tiny at the time they were introduced to each other.

Well, if the male did get the job done in May, that means she retained sperm for 5 months or better, and that the 6 hours she spent out of an enclosure while being transferred from the previous owner to myself triggered her breeding cycle (which adds up considering she laid last night; roughly 2 months later). The male's age as well as how long ago they were accidentally paired could explain why only 2 of 12 eggs were fertile, but at the same time I still can't believe a 25g male would successfully court and breed a nearly 500g female in under 30 minutes.

*Long story short:
*I have two fertile eggs in the incubator from a completely unexpected clutch of 12 eggs from a female I never paired to any males personally. There is a slim chance she copulated with a double het snow male that was 25g and likely too small to breed successfully. Now I get to sit and wait to find out what pops out of those two fertile eggs, and hope that the offspring help me determine the parents. If not, I will have to hold them both back to find out if the double het snow was successful.

*Actions taken:*
Hognose females love to double clutch, so after I made sure she was empty, I threw in my proven breeder male (normal) and he locked with her right away. Hopefully the next clutch will be completely fertile; I hate to see so many eggs go to waste. I also kick up the feeding regiment for females that are currently breeding, especially for those who have already laid one clutch. This feeding regiment also includes dusting damp rodents in Calcium with D3 as hognose females are notorious for producing poorly calcified eggs when double clutching.



Anyways,
Just thought I would share my interesting little story. I will take a pic of the two eggs in the incubator and the current lock (if it is still going on when I get home tonight) to add a little eye candy to this thread.

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## TJ_Burton

*Correction*: He has had the female since mid April 2012. It is technically possible that the previous owner had paired her prior to him recieving them, but that means the sperm would have been retained for over 6 months minimum.

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## gsarchie

That's awesome, and I am hoping for a virgin clutch!  You read about them in scientific papers but never see them in real life.  Good luck!

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## TJ_Burton

> That's awesome, and I am hoping for a virgin clutch! You read about them in scientific papers but never see them in real life. Good luck!


I was actually joking around about that with a buddy of mine. We found it even more hilarious that the eggs are due to hatch 12.12.2012... Can you imagine? Snake has immaculate conception and babies due to hatch 12.12.2012 right around the time the world is supposed to fall apart. We think these babies might be the ones sent to start the madness  :Razz:

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## gsarchie

Oh no, LOL, not a doomsday proponent!  Can't stand the talk of it all as it is complete crap!  I am now off to make a thread in which to discuss said thing that I claimed to not be able to stand the talk of.   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  :Razz:

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## TJ_Burton

Here are some pics of daddy and the two eggs:

Flash


No Flash


Eggs

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## Mike41793

I wish i could breed my bps at 25g and 500g... Lol

Good luck with that clutch TJ!

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_se7en_ (02-18-2017)

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## TJ_Burton

> I wish i could breed my bps at 25g and 500g... Lol
> 
> Good luck with that clutch TJ!


Hahaha wouldn't that be nice?!

Thanks, hopefully something cool comes from it  :Wink:

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## gsarchie

No deal on pictures.  Within 3 weeks I'll be back at computers where I can see pictures again and I'll be home a couple of weeks after that!  I'll look at the pictures as soon as I can.

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## liv

Feel free to give me whatever wacky mutant jesus babies crawl out of there  :Please:

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_gsarchie_ (11-03-2012)

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## Mike41793

> No deal on pictures.  Within 3 weeks I'll be back at computers where I can see pictures again and I'll be home a couple of weeks after that!  I'll look at the pictures as soon as I can.


Daddy with flash


Daddy with no flash


Eggeeez! 


(Photo cred to TJ)

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## gsarchie

> Feel free to give me whatever wacky mutant jesus babies crawl out of there


That, my dear, is hilarious.  It put a smile on my face!

And holy crap the pictures worked!  What did you do?  Also, great looking male and two good looking eggs.  What are you using for an incubator?  I only ask because it looks legit.

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## Mike41793

> And holy crap the pictures worked!  What did you do?  Also, great looking male and two good looking eggs.  What are you using for an incubator?  I only ask because it looks legit.


I screenshoot them with my iphone and then just repost them. Hence the black bars. 

Dont worry, i dont work for the Taliban lol  :Wink:

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## TJ_Burton

> That, my dear, is hilarious.  It put a smile on my face!
> 
> And holy crap the pictures worked!  What did you do?  Also, great looking male and two good looking eggs.  What are you using for an incubator?  I only ask because it looks legit.


Thanks,
The eggs are huge for hog eggs, so that should mean good sized babies. As for the incubator, it is a little ExoTerra Incubator.

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## gsarchie

Thanks Mike!

TJ - How much did you pay for that and how many BP eggs do you think it would hold?  It looks awesome!

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## Mike41793

He probably paid more for it than a free fridge from craigslist, a tstat and some flexwatt, and some DIY finnegaling costs.  :Wink: 

It looks very professional though, ill give it that.

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## TJ_Burton

> He probably paid more for it than a free fridge from craigslist, a tstat and some flexwatt, and some DIY finnegaling costs. 
> 
> It looks very professional though, ill give it that.


Cost me $60 (bought it from someone who hadn't used it and no longer wanted it). It will only hold MAYBE two average clutches of BP eggs - I use it for hognose eggs since my BP incubator isn't always running (and dramatically larger).
I think retail on it is $150 or something around there.

Cool part is you can also "cool" reptiles with it as it acts as a fridge as well. Mind you, I have a 36 bottle wine cooler with external thermostat for that job (which I also paid $40 for used)  :Wink:

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## gsarchie

Awesome, thanks for sharing that.  I think that as of right now while I have the potential of 6 clutches max I will just build one in a cooler with a thermostat and flexwatt.

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## TJ_Burton

> Awesome, thanks for sharing that.  I think that as of right now while I have the potential of 6 clutches max I will just build one in a cooler with a thermostat and flexwatt.


Good idea!

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## TJ_Burton

Guess who decided that they wanted to pip a couple days later than expected?

I haven't sexed them yet, and both of them are just having their first sheds today. I will post more pics once I get a meal into them.



And that little one decided to play dead the next day while it's sibling pipped

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_brobertson_ (12-17-2012),_Coleslaw007_ (12-17-2012),_Mike41793_ (12-17-2012),_se7en_ (02-18-2017),_Valentine Pirate_ (12-17-2012),_Wes_ (12-17-2012)

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## Coleslaw007

> Guess who decided that they wanted to pip a couple days later than expected?
> 
> I haven't sexed them yet, and both of them are just having their first sheds today. I will post more pics once I get a meal into them.
> 
> 
> 
> And that little one decided to play dead the next day while it's sibling pipped


They're such cute little freaky mutant Jesus snakes!

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_TJ_Burton_ (12-17-2012)

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## Valentine Pirate

Yaaaay! Been waiting for these to pop out  :Very Happy:  Adorable little guys

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## Corey209

Cool looking babies, I just found this on craigslist.. lol http://merced.craigslist.org/grq/3488400688.html

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## Chris633

Wow! I just read through this thread for the first time. Talk about luck! Any updates on your hatchlings?

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