# Feeders > Breeding Rats >  Rat Breeding Process

## ThyTempest

Hello everyone,

I have a couple of quick questions when it comes to rat breeding.  I know it is not good to breed back to back in rats, so do most of you pull the male out before the female gives birth?  Also, if you do pull them out, will they be ok to be re-introduced later for the next litter?  Ie, especially with ASF's, once they are separated, they are going to stay that way or they will fight it out.  

Thanks

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## jglass38

With regular rats I pull the females when they look like they swallowed a baseball.  I keep them separate or with another mother until their babies are ready to be weaned.  Then they go back into the breeding rotation.  I have had a lot of success doing it this way.  When I clean each week I rotate my females through my males so the male sees a different group of females each week.   I am pretty new to breeding ASFs but from everything I've read, they are much more sensitive to change so I am leaving my 1.2 or 1.3 groups together all the time.

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## ThyTempest

Allright.  So, for the break between pregnancies, is it 4 weeks out of the cycle after the last litter is weaned, or is the time nursing and weaning considered enough time, so that when the last litter is weaned, the mom is safe to be bred again?

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## jglass38

Everyone does it differently.  Some people breed back to back, some give longer rests.  For me, as soon as the babies are weaned the mother goes back into rotation and will likely have a litter within a month.  Some people will wait a month after the babies are weaned, but I don't have that luxury.

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## Jay_Bunny

I give my girls a rest depending on how long they nursed the litter. With some litters I need to feed off the pups at a young age. If I do this, the mother gets a week off and then she's back into the group. If she raises the babies all the way to the weaning stage, I give her 3 weeks off.

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## ThyTempest

We are wanting to keep the breeders as pets, so let me know if you think this would work.  

We have 3 tubs set up already, following-ish the DIY sticky.  We also have a 29 gallon and a 20 gallon tank that we could use, or just make more tubs, as we have lots of those around too.  

Going with the three tub set-up, one for males, including dad, one for females, and one for breeding/birthing.  I am planning on only breeding one female at a time.

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## Stewart_Reptiles

The way I used to do it (with a smaller collection) was to have 2 females house in each tubs and have the males rotating between 3 tubs as followed.

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## jglass38

sounds good except for one thing.  I never put males breeders in with babies they didn't father.  I did it once and the breeder male killed about 10 babies in less than 5 minutes.  So you'll want to have a grow out/holding tub to put the babies in once they are weaned.

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## ThyTempest

Allright, so you think that we need at least 4 enclosures?  1 for the Breeding female for rest and birth up to weaning, 1 for female grow up, 1 for male grow up and one for the breeder male for when the female is resting or nursing?

With this type of system, we would breed the male and female, then after a week or two, when she is closer to birthing, take the male out to his own tub.  Once the litter is weaned, we separate the males and females into their own tubs, and leave the mom to rest for a while.  

Here are the two things I am worried about the most.  

1)  Everyone is always saying that rats, mice, etc are very social animals and dont do as well alone.  With this strategy, the breeding male and female are alone with their own enclosure for at least a few weeks at a time.  Do you think this is going to be a problem, and if so how do I fix it without causing more issues.

2) Reintroducing the breeding pair after their separated.  I have heard this isnt too much of an issue in rats, I just want to make sure the tendency is that things go smoothly.  I know this wont be a for sure, but knowing that most people dont have a problem with this would easy my nerves.

Thanks for all of the help.

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## Skittles46

Personally, after watching ours (somewhere around 100-200 currently) I wouldn't want to keep them totally alone for that long.  The only exception in our operation is the heavily pregnant mamas.

As far as #2 goes the only trouble I've ever had with rats (granted we've had them all of 4 months, but still) and reintroducing is males, who tend to fight some to re-establish who's in charge.  I've never had any issues with reintroducing females, or males to females.

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## littleindiangirl

> 1)  Everyone is always saying that rats, mice, etc are very social animals and dont do as well alone.  With this strategy, the breeding male and female are alone with their own enclosure for at least a few weeks at a time.  Do you think this is going to be a problem, and if so how do I fix it without causing more issues.


There is no good way to go about this. While one male is breeding, the other is alone. Might as well get 2 females and 2 males.

Breed both females at the same time. One with each male. After 3 weeks, remove the males, put them into their own tub.

So, 
2 tubs for nursing mothers, 
1 LARGE tub for males (they need space), 
2 tubs for weaners separated by sex. (If your growing them at all)

Might as well build a rack!!




> 2) Reintroducing the breeding pair after their separated.  I have heard this isnt too much of an issue in rats, I just want to make sure the tendency is that things go smoothly.  I know this wont be a for sure, but knowing that most people dont have a problem with this would easy my nerves.
> 
> Thanks for all of the help.


They'll be fine.

Now, you'll have close to 30 rats after the first litter... are you CO2ing what you need for months for the one snake? If so, I would recommend freezing enough rodents for 4 months, any longer and the FT tend to get nasty. 

They should be CO2'd when they are weaned, so you really don't even need the 2 weaner tubs unless your growing them up for larger snakes.

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## ThyTempest

I only have one bp right now.  My girlfriend and I have talked about getting another, but that is months away, if not a year or more.  Unless I can find a job for the summer, I really dont have any money to put a rack together,and it would be a major pain in the ass to move up to the third floor when we move this fall.  I am going to be putting together a co2 chamber soon, using a co2 canister.  I have to spend about 20 bucks for some parts, but after that, a fill for my tank is less than 3 or 4 dollars, and will probably last me a year or so for rodent euthanasia.  

I already have 3 tubs set up, 2 of which are occupied with mice.  I would like to use a rack in the future, but I just dont have the money to put down on it right now, though I could look into make one small scale.  What tubs are typically used for rats?  I would imagine kitter litter pans would be ok, but I dont know how deep they would be.  Right now the tubs I am using vary from about 18 inches to 2 feet long, and about a foot wide and 18 inches high.  

Minimizing the amount of space would be great, which I think will primarily come from either using smaller(shorter) tubs, or maybe scraping up some money to build a small rack?  

Any suggestions?

Also, I offered a frozen thawed via the zombie dance for about 10 minutes last night.  She was interested, but just didnt take it.  My arm got so tired I left it inside her enclosure for another 5 minutes alone and still nothing. I took it out and offered a live and it was dead in about a minute.  I am still hopeful, and the f/t was pretty small for her, so that didnt help the cause either.

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## Somed00d

> really dont have any money to put a rack together,and it would be a major pain in the ass to move up to the third floor when we move this fall.


I just built a rack and its not very expensive at all.  If you can't afford it now perhaps in the future you will look into it.  The wood involved is cheap to save money you could buy 2x4's and cut them in half to make your own 2x2's.

I also put together a watering system for about $40.  In the beginning water bottles will work fine.

If you do build a rack you want tubs that not too deep because the idea is you put the food on top and they eat it through the hardware cloth..  Or you could do like me and get a deep tub but build a platform inside they can climb up to get the food/water.
apparently you can find some cement mixing tubs at lowes that are prefect and cheap.  I am in canada and the lowes here doesn't have them  :Sad: 

If your only building 4 enclosures the rack will be small and easier to move than a dresser.

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## littleindiangirl

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=69076

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