# Other Pythons > General Pythons >  Green Tree Python Info

## Jessica Loesch

I have been looking at baby biak GTP for a while now, trying to figure out enough info for em, etc.

I am absolutely in love with these snakes.  Red or yellow neonates are both amazing.  But I'm unsure about how their genetics work.  Is it a surprise when they grow up how they look?  

I was thinking about getting a pvc cage from here, adding in 3 perches, light, and heat.

The humidity here in NE is high and just by having eco earth moist in my ball pythons tub, it shot up to 90% (15qt) so I'm not worried about having issues there.

I have a couple questions .... well, more than that...

If I get this cage with all of those options, will that be enough heat?  

How long/big do they get?

How does one go about handling them?  I hear you aren't supposed to do it as much when they are small because they have fragile spines?

What size foods do they take? (to start and how big do they eventually eat?)  Will they take ASF?

What age do they start changing color?

ANY other advice.  I am not going to be buying one for a while most likely, trying to get all my research done.  I MAY be able to get one if they have one at the reptile expo in october in omaha, but I hear it isn't that big and who knows if I'll have the right funds in line to do so.

Thanks in advance ...

Jessica

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## Jessica Loesch

PS I'm not set on a biak, they are just the most cost effective and also gorgeous locality at the same time ... open to others though, and opinions between red and yellow.

Also would like opinions on male vs female.

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## Jessica Loesch

OHHH.  One more question ... should I have the baby in a smaller tub set up before I get a cage like that (starting with a 24x24x24) and how do I go about that cost effectively?

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## geckobabies

Okay I'll try and answer a few of these.  Def not an expert but we've had several of them before and our current one for seven years now.

I would not put a baby in a large cage.  A smaller cage would be better IMO.  A good adult size is 36" x 24" x 24" or even a 48".  They are arboreal, but do better in wider cages IMO then taller cages.  They will move left to right on their perch to regulate their temps.  We use a radiant heat panel for heat which works perfect for their setup. (high humidity and wet at times)

Babies feed on pinky mice and will grow fairly slowly compared to a lot of other species.  Our adult GTP is just about six feet but you would never know that bc she's always curled up on her perch (or sometimes the ground.)  She eats a small rat usually about every ten days, but that really depends on her mood.  Sometimes she will not eat for several weeks before she decides to eat again.

Handling them will depend on how aggressive your GTP is.  The easiest way to move them is to have removable perches/branches and just remove the entire branch when you need to clean or handle them.  Some will tolerate handling (our Aru has never struck) but many will not and should avoid it.  A snake hook will work well for this if you have an aggressive one.

No clue on what is better a male or female.  We have a female and have not had a problem with her.  If you buy a baby you will probably not know the sex at purchase.  Red or yellow does not really matter if you are just looking for a fun pet.  There is a lot of debate on that however as far as how the color matures.  I would buy a CB baby vs a CH.

As for types, that will also very greatly depending on their lineage.  In general, Biaks tend to have more yellow and green coloration, an Aru is more bright green with white and blue markings, and Sorongs develop a nice blue stripe.  It really just depends on the lines though as I have an Aru with more blue on her then a lot of Sorongs.

Hopefully that helps  :Smile:

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## Jessica Loesch

It helps a lot ... What should I do about a smaller cage?  Should I make a DIY tub enclosure?  I can purchase some lengths of pvc and mount them in a tub with some holes in the lid with coconut substrate to keep humidity high.  I already have a decent sized tub, I think it is 24x12x12 ish.  Is that still too large?  How would I go about heating it?  You mention radiant heat panels, which I know nothing about ... time to google  :Smile: 
Where would it go, etc.

Plan on getting CB, especially if I'm able to get one at the expo as it is only CB things.

Didn't think about the sex being unknown, read about that, forgot  :Smile: 

This gives me time to get an adult cage .. so I like that ... if the tub will work.

Should I interact with it a lot as a baby, not taking it out persay, but looking at it, talking to it, gently touching it?

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## tcutting

Ok so the first reply is pretty spot on.  Small cage as a baby.  helps you keep the humid.  a baby can shrivel up fast if it isnt right so HUMID HUMID HUMID!!!!  the guy i worked for(he specialized in GTPs and Amazon Basin ETB) used small DIY tubs and had small perches made for them.  I have some pics of the perches if you need an idea and the tubs.  Also as far as handling, really its hit or miss on there temper but they tend to have a HIGH feed response and can get nipping.  Keep it to a minimum unless the animal is very tolerant of it but even still dont get carried away.  snake hook a must because in most cases you will get a strong feed response.

and yes as babies they are very fragile.  I wouldnt go over board with "interaction" either.  its purely a personality of the animal that will determine how it will act.  

As far as locality, I am a HUGE FAN of ARUs i can also provide pics of those if you want or ARU merauke crosses, or just meraukes, and Sorongs are nice too.  But i would go ARU all day every day.  

-todd

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## tcutting

ohh and canaries will always turn green it seems they just stay yellow much much longer then most(from what i have seen anyway), and they say the red babies from Arus are more likely to be blue, but there really isnt that big of a difference between yellow, red, chocolate, yellow blaze, or whatever color the baby is.  look at the parents if you can and what the normal of the locality is.

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## geckobabies

24" x 12" x 12" sounds pretty big to me.. it might work, but I honestly can't say on that.  Totes work great bc they are cheap and you can move up in sizes as they grow, but I don't have any good ideas on how to heat a tote not in a rack system.  Sorry hopefully someone else will have some ideas  :Smile: 

I would not handle a baby at all until it was very well established and eating.  More than likely it's just going to stress them and they are very sensitive about their tails.  I would consider them more of a display animal.

Anyone have any good ideas on how to heat an independent tote safely?

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## Jessica Loesch

Awesome ... thanks so far everyone ... I would LOOOOVVEEEE pics.  

Still wondering at what age they start the transformation  :Smile: 

What size tote should I get for a baby?

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## geckobabies

> As far as locality, I am a HUGE FAN of ARUs


+1 lol

Our Aru

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## tcutting

aru meraukes cross baby about 1.5years old (they can start changing at like 9months or so to anything over 2 years it varies)

he is on a small perch from the small tubs...

[img]https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/files/2/2/8/3/8/4gcbhyhbxm-2.jpg[/img  mid color phase change.  not sure if this was a cross

  just about breeding age this is a cross aru merauke

  the parents of the crosses (you can see the deeper blue on the aru male)

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## tcutting

and the other pics....




  Aru female strong blue tint to her

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## tcutting

I have other pics too but those should answer your questions and give you a good idea that it really can vary based on the animal.

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## geckobabies

Awesome photos!  God now you're really making me regret selling my other chondros!!!

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_tcutting_ (07-20-2011)

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## tcutting

I love GTPs.  and the 2 parents were dog tame.  i could just reach in and pick them up no prob anytime.  Them and the Boelens pythons were my favorites to work with.  but that is just a few of them and a few of the pics i have from when i was working there.  I loved that job.

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## babyknees

I'm going to try to answer the questions that I can. I'm no expert either but here's what I've got:




> How does one go about handling them?  I hear you aren't supposed to do it as much when they are small because they have fragile spines?


I have also heard about the fragile spine and can't speak to whether or not that's true. My boy is wonderful and very tolerant of handling. Like geckobabies said removing the perch and then the GTP is the best removal method. I was warned against attempting to handle him at night. After seeing how alert he is when I just walk by his cage I'd be very wary of sticking a hand in when the sun goes down. But he's normally very mild mannered but much more alert than our ball pythons. He loves to explore and always seems to be trying to find the highest place to go (i.e. my head).




> What size foods do they take? (to start and how big do they eventually eat?)  Will they take ASF?


I believe my boy to be full grown and I'd say he's 4.5-5 feet. They spend most of their time folded up on a perch. He eats a small rat every other week and I feed him at night with tongs. He's got a GREAT appetite and takes food whenever it's offered and just about RIPS it off the tongs.

As for the locality my boy is an Aru and here he is:




Also my cage is from pvccages.com and the radiant heat panel in there keeps it nice and warm. I'm not sure what wattage it is but if you're worried about keeping the temps right you could buy a higher wattage heat panel. I also have a thermostat on there and would highly suggest that. It makes your life quite a bit easier and keeps your snake safe from over heating.

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_tcutting_ (07-20-2011)

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## babyknees

> Aru female strong blue tint to her


Argh! I want a blue GTP and a boelens SO bad.

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## Jessica Loesch

tcutting - I LOVE that pic of the yellow and the red together....  That is amazing ... WOW, all I can say is WOW.  I want one.

Anyway thanks for the pics and info thus far!!! I can't wait to get one!!! Just need to figure out what size tub to get!!

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## tcutting

if you want i can see if i can dig up others too.  i have examples of yellow blazes as well.  and yes their spines are very fragile and you can kink a tail super easy.  like the others said take them out with the perch and be super aware of where the tail is when you place the perch down or back in.  when they are babies they sometimes take their tails up by their head and wiggle it like a worm.  its pretty cool to watch.

I also just found the biak pics too and canaries.  and i just found the ones of the Amazon basins as well if you want a comparison.  i prefer GTPs hands down!

and nice aru baby knees

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## geckobabies

One of my Biak crosses just going into color change.

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## geckobabies

> As for the locality my boy is an Aru and here he is:


Beautiful chondro!  :Smile:

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## tcutting

> One of my Biak crosses just going into color change.


very nice!

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_geckobabies_ (07-21-2011)

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## Jessica Loesch

Okay ... it's getting closer to that time!!!!!! The expo is a month away and if I don't find one there, I'll be looking for one to order before the cold months start....


I'm also looking into getting a pair, as I'd like to breed them, but they aren't sexable as neos as far as I know ... so I guess I'll have to get an older one once I know the sex of my first one.

I wonder if PVC cages are stackable... they will go into tubs first but then into PVC cage brand cages... anyone know?

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## wwmjkd

> Okay ... it's getting closer to that time!!!!!! The expo is a month away and if I don't find one there, I'll be looking for one to order before the cold months start....
> 
> 
> I'm also looking into getting a pair, as I'd like to breed them, but they aren't sexable as neos as far as I know ... so I guess I'll have to get an older one once I know the sex of my first one.
> 
> I wonder if PVC cages are stackable... they will go into tubs first but then into PVC cage brand cages... anyone know?


I have my adult sorong x jayapura in the large enclosure from pvc cages.  As far as providing a proper husbandry environment, it's perfect.  I mist once every day or two and have never had a bad shed.  however, I am going to buy a different enclosure soon because the pvc cages just don't do it for me as a display cage.  I think GTPs are about the best display animals around, and the aesthetics just don't match up, especially with the sliding doors.  I also do not believe they are stackable, but mine is an older model. 

 whatever cage you decide to use, horizontal space is actually more important than vertical in my opinion, because GTPs will utilize a heat gradient based on the length of a cage but will tend to stay at the top perch of any enclosure even if the temperature is too high or low.  since they seem to favor security over thermoregulation when it comes to height, it's more important to provide space to allow for a gradient along the length of the cage.  I would also strongly recommend using a heat panel.  anything else, and you run the risk of a burn or insufficiently distributed heat.  RBI sells great heat panels of various sizes.  

as for the neonate stage, as has been mentioned, the smaller the better.  they do grow slowly, and the best option is to just upgrade sterilite or rubbermade tubs as they grow.  you can use a soldiering iron to make air holes and places to inset perches.  plastic coat hangers make for suitable temporary perches when they are young.  my neonate is in a tub with perches on each side and a long pvc pipe running diagonally the length of the tub.  since the enclosure is so small right now, I just use one foot of 11'' flexwatt connected to a helix and it's worked so far.  I keep the tub sitting half-on, half-off of the heat tape, so it's not an ideal set-up, but it was the only size flexwatt I had on hand.

I'm sure you've had your other questions answered in previous posts, but I just wanted to give you my two cents on the pvc cages.  I'd also discourage anyone from picking up a biak if you're looking for a more tractable GTP.  while there are certainly always exceptions, biaks tend to be the least accommodating and most apt to strike.  lastly, if you can't find a neonate at the upcoming expo, I'd recommend Jeff Hankey (Trpnbills on here).  I got my red neonate from him, and I believe he still has a few more available.

best of luck.

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## Jessica Loesch

Awesome info, thanks so much!  That really helps.  I actually really like the LOOK of the pvc cages, but I hadn't thought about the doors ...

I was planning on doing tubs for the neo stage for sure and I was thinking of ordering some pieces of extruded acrylic for the perches because they look nice  :Smile:   Someone on facebook told me about them.  What size tub do you think I should start with for a small one?  I think I have read 6 qt for neos, then 15 qt for a while.. I don't remember but I know I wrote it down and have the info somewhere.

I will look into trpnbills ... thanks  :Smile:

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## wwmjkd

just to show you an example of the perches I'm using in the tub...they really shouldn't be larger than the snake so as to avoid slipping off when feeding.  the pvc pipe in the picture would be far too large if it were the only perch in there.



also, handling is possible as neonates, but they're just so delicate that common sense usually prevails over the urge to take them out all the time.  I've only ever handled my neonate twice, and just to move him while I cleaned the tub.



keep us posted

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## Jessica Loesch

omg what a beautiful little baby ... and you got that from trpnbills?  I hope he still has some!

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## wwmjkd

> omg what a beautiful little baby ... and you got that from trpnbills?  I hope he still has some!


he/she did come from Jeff, and I do believe he's posted a few times in the for sale/wanted forum.  definitely worth a shot as last I heard he had both red and yellow neonates available.  mine is a spectacular crimson right now, but still feisty.  be prepared to take a nip or two when they're this small.  it's pure defensiveness, but to date it's the only snake that's ever tagged me (knock on wood).  my sorong has never so much as hissed at me.  it's sometimes hard to get him out of the cage (another reason I'm not a huge fan of the pvccages perches), but once he's out, he's by far the most curious snake I have.  and very tame.  to wit:


boundary issues

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## Jessica Loesch

aweeeeeeee!!!!! Sweet, looking good!

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## pbjtime8908

cant believe  i havent seen this thread before now  :Sad: . im also looking into getting a GTP, i mostly want one as a display animal and dont plan on doing any breeding but who knows there. this thread has a lot more specific stuff then ive really been able to find so thnx to everyone for that. im definitely loving the ARUs so much and believe ill be getting one of those. oh and ill also be at the omaha show in october, my first show/expo ever, and wont be looking for one there but ill be looking for some very soon, just one week away now (which i had totally forgotten about until i saw this thread).

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## Jessica Loesch

sweet pbjtime .. see u there ...

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