# Ball Pythons > BP Pictures >  Help: My spider turn...gray

## hgrub

Here's her pic before

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## hgrub

She's in shed in this pic

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drucebennedict (07-29-2009)

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## hgrub

She shed one day after I took the above pic...and here's how she look today when I found her

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## hgrub

I think she's gravid, but she's not supposed to change color this much right?

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## hgrub

She looks almost axanthic like...there's no yellow on her

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## hgrub

The fact that she turn gray overnight means something's wrong with her. What should I do? She's jumpier than before as well, but she's still alert and move normally. SHe's stop feeding for a while now.

She got that scratch on her face from scratching her face against the tub because of stuck shed. 

Any info will be appriciated.

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## ADEE

wow, i think she looks awesome!!!!! ive never seen anything like that before

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## hgrub

Yes, she looks cool, but the fact that she suddenly drop her color really worried me.  :Sad:

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## ADEE

i wonder why she had such a dramatic change.. i hope its nothing to worry about and more something to admire

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## dsirkle

When my spider had her last shed she went from a brown to having a bright green hue. She is healthy but I was quite surprised by the change. It made her look like a different snake. Maybe your snake isn't having a problem.

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## bignasty

WOAH!!! The color change is awesome! She's even more gorgeous that before! I hope she's alright though.

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## muddoc

T,
  She is fine.  This seems to happen more often the believed.  I have not seen it in my personal collection, but have seen it on many forums, and talked to some people that have seen it.  Noone I have spoken with knows what causes it, but over the next 3-6 sheds, she will more than likely slowly turn back to her original color.

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## rabernet

I don't "think" that this color change will affect her health, and I don't believe it's a sign of anything wrong with her, but I'd wait for those more experienced to comment. It is an amazing change and VERY cool looking!

Edit - Tim answered! Yay! I know if I were you - I'd take tons of pictures of her like this to enjoy after she returns to her normal coloration - so cool! You should take a really cool picture of her and submit in BPOM contest!

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## JAMills

Wow!!! That really is an Amazing color change. Let me know when she lays. I would like a chance at one.

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## FL0OD

yea take a lot of pics before she turns, that is the coolest thing i have seen in a while.  :Sweeet:

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## hgrub

> Wow!!! That really is an Amazing color change. Let me know when she lays. I would like a chance at one.


Dude, there's gonna be two small problems. I'm exactly half the world from you and my wonderful government prohibit exportation of any kind of snake lol

Thanks y'all(especially you, Tim) for every comments, I feel a bit better now.  :Smile:

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## JLC

I dunno if it's any help at all, but I can second what Tim has said.  I don't have personal experience with this change, but have read about numerous separate accounts of it happening.  In some, it happend gradually over 2-3 sheds, and in some it happened all at once like with yours.  In each case, there were no ill effects to the snake at all, and it returned to its normal color within a few months and a few sheds. 

Absolutely stunning spider you got there...both in her usual "wardrobe" and in her new outfit!   :Very Happy:   Her and that beautiful pastel are gonna make some smokin' bees!

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## hgrub

Ralph Davis just emailed me back and I just talked to Amir on the phone.
Both of them're saying the same thing as Tim. She'll turn back to normal after several shedding. I guess it's photo time lol  :Very Happy: 

Amir actually told me that the animal will even have a brighter yellow after they get their yellow back. Will keep y'all update.  :Good Job:

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## JLC

It's like...while the new skin was developing right before the shedding process....the ink cartridge with the yellow/brown pigment went empty.  She'll have to wait for a new shipment to come in before her color returns to normal.  :Razz:

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## hgrub

> It's like...while the new skin was developing right before the shedding process....the ink cartridge with the yellow/brown pigment went empty.  She'll have to wait for a new shipment to come in before her color returns to normal.


lol
Now I wish she will like her new look better and never change back to her old color  :Wink: 

Just like when my wife decide to turn old, she never look back! 

No offence to all the BP ladies!  :Very Happy:

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## hgrub

In a way, I guess this is a sneak peek of how Axanthic Spider will look like. I always want one...cool.

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## AzureN1ght

> T,
>   She is fine.  This seems to happen more often the believed.  I have not seen it in my personal collection, but have seen it on many forums, and talked to some people that have seen it.  Noone I have spoken with knows what causes it, but over the next 3-6 sheds, she will more than likely slowly turn back to her original color.


Does the temporary color loss seem to coincide with the females being gravid (and is the color loss only with females)? Perhaps when a female's body is short on resources and she's building up eggs, the eggs are priority over the pigmentation process during her shed? 

Anyway, it's a very interesting phenomenon  :Smile:  Pictures, pictures while it lasts!

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## Bright202

WOW. I wish I had a spider that could do that! Wait... I wish I had a spider! Lucky....

Lol Take lots of pictures please! :Very Happy:

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## JLC

> Does the temporary color loss seem to coincide with the females being gravid (and is the color loss only with females)? Perhaps when a female's body is short on resources and she's building up eggs, the eggs are priority over the pigmentation process during her shed? 
> 
> Anyway, it's a very interesting phenomenon  Pictures, pictures while it lasts!


I can't speak for what Tim has read, but for me, this is the first time I've heard of it with a breeding female that may be gravid.

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## frankykeno

That is amazing!  Please continue to take regular pictures of her so you have the whole color change from start to finish to add to this thread.  I think this is just fascinating!

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## JASBALLS

They dont always turn back. Yes I have seen this in person.

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## Freakie_frog

I have a female right now that is doing this. She shed and her whole body from about two finger widths down her spine to her belly is a steel blue gray color.

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## jkobylka

presto chango!

Enjoy her while it lasts. and tell everyone you have an axanthic spider lol  :Smile: 

Justin

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## Laooda

Wow!  Absolutely amazing  :Very Happy:   As mentioned, please keep us posted!

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## littleindiangirl

That is stunning, I would take it as a good sign!

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## Freakie_frog

No that is not a light trick that really is her color..Very cool stuff shocked the hell out of me when I opened her tub and there was a gray snake looking up at me.



Keep us posted I would love to compaire notes

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## akaangela

she was nice looking before but WOW.  I LOVE the way she looks now.  Hey if any of the babies comeout like that put me down for one ;D

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## Montessa Python

Can some one please talk some sense..
If you are worried, take her to a vet for crying out loud.
Take her to the vet just in case.

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## Brimstone111888

> Can some one please talk some sense..
> If you are worried, take her to a vet for crying out loud.
> Take her to the vet just in case.


Huh? :Confused: 

No offense, but the people he has talked to( RDR and others) I would be much more inclined to believe one of them over a vet anyday. RDR and a select few have even seen this strange occurrence, much less a vet. Vets have enough trouble diagnosing a RI....

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## Petboy15

SShe looks amazing.

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## NextWorldExotics

Shes pretty awesome!
Hows the Super Ball doing? Did you end up keeping him?
Jon

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## hgrub

I would have brought her to vet, if I didn't get any information on her. However, many breeders told me that this thing happens and it is not harmful to my snakes. Those people are (in order of whom I get information from first) Tim, Ralph, Amir, Brian, and Chun. They all told me exact same thing. So I guess it's pretty safe for me to sit on my butt and enjoy her new look while it last.

More new pics soon  :Very Happy:

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## hgrub

I end up keeping him Jon. I've realized that super ball is hard to find, so I better keep one for myself since I have a chance to get one. He's one mean dude though, so many people here got tagged by him lol

Also bought one adult male Angolan x Ball couple months ago as well...can't wait to see him. I'm starting a ball hybrid collection.  :Smile:  Next one I'll get Ball x corn hybrid lol

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## muddoc

> Does the temporary color loss seem to coincide with the females being gravid (and is the color loss only with females)? Perhaps when a female's body is short on resources and she's building up eggs, the eggs are priority over the pigmentation process during her shed? 
> 
> Anyway, it's a very interesting phenomenon  Pictures, pictures while it lasts!


In most of the animals I have read about or heard about, I don't recall it occuring near breeding. In fact most of the occurances that I can recall, it happened in sub-adults.

T, I am glad you got plenty of advice that allowed your mind to be at ease.

Sincerely,

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## rabernet

> Can some one please talk some sense..
> If you are worried, take her to a vet for crying out loud.
> Take her to the vet just in case.


Some sense? There's no need to take her to the vet, this is a phenomena that happens to some snakes - nothing vet worthy.

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## littleindiangirl

I keep coming back to this thread just to look at her. I am jealous T, very jealous.  :Wink:

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## atp151415

why are there no pics forr me?

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## atp151415

nevermind, i just had to let them load

that is fricken crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
sadly, i think her color is going to come back

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## Bruce Whitehead

Wow, that is absolutely phenomenal.

I am just stunned. Moreso than usual.

If I did not hear people backing it, then I would have thought it was a fake post. That much change in such a short period, amazing.

Bruce

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## West Coast Jungle

Very cool. I'm digging the silver spider. Just amazing :Weirdface:

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## hgrub

I don't think she's gravid. Like I said, she's bred with the male not many times. And now I'm afraid to put the male together with her. She's kinda jumpy now anyway.

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## littleindiangirl

Can you feel any follicle development? 

BTW, Quit posting pictures, I'm starting to drool.  :Razz:  :Very Happy:

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## Spaniard

Oh so very gorgeous; I would have been pretty freaked out myself to see that change in one shed.  Keep us updated on her transformation back to normal.

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## ru55ell14

Has this been observed in all morphs or just spiders?

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## Patrick Long

Thats friggin amazing! 

Tim, are there any theories as to why this happens?

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## hgrub

update
she lock with male pastel again. So that means she's not gravid, right?

Close up

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## Brock Wagner

T

That has happened a few times before.  Go over to Bob Clarks forum and do a search. I  think it was late 2004 or 2005 he had a male Spider turn grey like yours.  I believe that the Spider stayed that color for some time.  I remember seeing it in Daytona and that Spider rocked.  He was asking more money for it since it did that.  If memory serves me correct it did change back to brown.  Your female looks cool.  Take some pictures and enjoy her while you can.  She is not sick by the way.

Brock

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## nixer

looks almost like the axanthic spider only whiter that would be cool if it stayed that way

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## muddoc

> T
> 
> That has happened a few times before.  Go over to Bob Clarks forum and do a search. I  think it was late 2004 or 2005 he had a male Spider turn grey like yours.  I believe that the Spider stayed that color for some time.  I remember seeing it in Daytona and that Spider rocked.  He was asking more money for it since it did that.  If memory serves me correct it did change back to brown.  Your female looks cool.  Take some pictures and enjoy her while you can.  She is not sick by the way.
> 
> Brock


Brock,
  Thanks for posting that.  I rememered seeing that Spider in Daytona as well in 2004, but I couldn't remember whose table it was on.

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## Brock Wagner

No problem Tim.  I remember that male Spider well.

Brock

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## MarkS

Yeah, that was Bob Clark who had it happen to a spider, he used to have a pic of it on his web site, I don't know if it's still there or not. I've heard of this happening to old animals, young animals, males or females so I don't think it has anything to do with hormonal changes during breeding.  I don't think anybody knows what actually happens.   I've heard people say that the shed was preceded by a funny/greasy/waxy stool.  Did this happen to you?  They often change back to original color, but a few of the ones I've seen developed more melanin and eventually wound up darker.   

I suspect that a lot of wild caught axanthics that didn't prove out started out this way.

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## Peter Williams

That is INSANE! pictures pictures pictures!

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## BMorrison

That is awesome! She was gorgeous before but wow... I don't think I've ever seen a color like that before... it's almost like a ghost... definitely submit some pics to BPOM!

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## snakelady

WOW! That's so awesome!  :Dancin' Banana: 

My pastel recently changed color before her shed...not lighter like you'd expect but a lot darker. Not anything dramatic like that though!

Glad to hear there is nothing wrong. I would have been really worried too.

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## littleindiangirl

> WOW! That's so awesome! 
> 
> My pastel recently changed color before her shed...not lighter like you'd expect but a lot darker. Not anything dramatic like that though!
> 
> Glad to hear there is nothing wrong. I would have been really worried too.


This is very common, snakes will darken up and look very melanistic before they go blue for a shed. My pastel male looks almost as dark as a normal before a shed.  :Wink:

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## snakelady

> This is very common, snakes will darken up and look very melanistic before they go blue for a shed. My pastel male looks almost as dark as a normal before a shed.


Really? I've not noticed mine getting so much darker before. It's amazing to me how much they change color and it's cool.

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## Thor26

that is ridiculous if u dont notice a behivior or eating change i wouldnt worry to much

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## Otter_23

I had this happen to a normal, she didn't turn all the way grey but the bottom half does look axanthic.  My theory is that a batch of rodents I got is to blame.  These mice were jumbos but very very fat.  I generally feed my balls that are about 400 grams XL or jumbo mice and haven't had a problem until this year.  One of my females that had been in a tub had smeared her crisco looking poop all over before I had found her.  She didn't look well and it took a long time to completely clean her tub (I put her in a new tub).  She died a believe a day after she had shed from the ordeal.  I watched the rest that had eaten these mice and most had very smelly greasy stools but didn't have the reaction she had.  The female that lost her color had the same issue she didn't look right so I checked on her constantly and put her in a bigger tub so she couldn't smear it all over.  She pooped the crisco and went into shed.  I was apprehensive if she was going to make it or not.  When she shed she had lost half her color but stayed alive.  I didn't feed her for 2 weeks after that to make sure she got all of it out of her system.  The mice were from a big company that gets their mice from I believe research facilities they were almost as wide as they were long and all of them were black.  I do not feed my ball pythons these mice anymore and haven't have any problems since.  I think it has to do either with what these mice were being tested with or the fat content.  I was told that it is possible these mice were used for diabetes research etc...

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## ravenspirit360

My first thought when reading this was that this has to be fake, or its a joke lol... Now im amazed.. I wish mine would do that lol..

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## FireproofGorilla

That's just insane!   :Eyepopping: :

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## Spaniard

Speaking of which can we get an update on this girl.  How's her coloration now?

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## dragondavy

She looks pretty cool like that, tell people she is a axanthic spider.lol :Very Happy:

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## ShawnT

Any updates on this girl?

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## python.princess

Does this only happen with spiders or other morphs as well? Anybody know?

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## dr del

Hi,

I think the first time I ever saw something like this mentioned it was two normal  ball pythons it happened too - but I think it was less extreme and mainly on the top of their backs.

Of course with my memory it could have been a movie of the week.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 


dr del

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## pythontricker

woh thats so cool!

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## barakujang

สวัสดี เบิร์ก  สไปเดอร์ตัวโคตรใหญ่เลยว่ะ  สวยด้วย   :Good Job:

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## mischevious21

WOW!! That is so awsome! I hope my spider (that I don't have yet, lol), does that! Though, I'll probably forget all about this post and you'll see me on here freakin out, and saying the same stuff with the same replies. lol.

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## mischevious21

> สวัสดี เบิร์ก  สไปเดอร์ตัวโคตรใหญ่เลยว่ะ  สวยด้วย


And huh? What does that say? lol

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## Venenito_X_Remedito

> She shed one day after I took the above pic...and here's how she look today when I found her


Holy gorgeous ball python! It's my two favorite morphs in one  :Surprised: 
Axanthic Spider!!!
Only... not?

Man, if she stayed that way, I'd be SO jealous!!
She is GORGEOUS!!
Please somebody -- Make a Axanthic Spider. Please? 
PLEASE?!?!
Lol  :Razz: 

Once again, gorgeous!

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## ama1997

I cant say anything on spiders since I dont own one. I do have a female that when shes is gravid. Most females when gravid do some kind of color change. This female turns into some kind of green ghost looking thing. Its not just the glow like the rest of my females. Shes all green now so hoping shes full of eggs.  That color change is crazy great looking spider.

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## pedipalps

Awesome! Great dramatic change. 

Any updates?

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## Ginevive

That is just wicked..! I would caution to call it an axanthic though, unless breeding proved it out. It could just be a nifty color change.. but only future breeding would tell.

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## muddoc

> Please somebody -- Make a Axanthic Spider. Please? 
> PLEASE?!?!
> Lol 
> 
> Once again, gorgeous!


Request granted.  Rick and Rusty of Rusty's Balls made an Axanthic Spider in 2007.  It was a beautiful animal.  There is a picture of it on Exotics by Nature's website, under the 2007 Tinley Park photo gallery.

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## kc261

I don't know if this was mentioned earlier in this thread, but I just found the stuff below today and I don't feel like re-reading all 8 pages!

The snake is apparently an IMG (increasing melanin gene), based on what I read in the link below.  Interesting stuff about attempts to prove out something that does appear genetic, but not in a simple mendelian sort of way, and to make it extra complex, hatchlings look normal until they change later in life.
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...d.php?t=109055

Oddly enough, I found that link when searching for pics of pastel yellowbellies.  Obvious connection right?  LOL!  It came up in one of those "is my snake a morph" threads.  This link isn't as interesting but I'll post it in case anyone is curious.  It has got to be the most interesting "is my snake a morph" thread I've ever seen!
http://www.redtailboa.net/forums/mis...-question.html

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## Papa Burgundy

That is amazing. What a change. Looks like you have some bee's coming soon too. Good luck.

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## barakujang

> And huh? What does that say? lol



That's thai write. He's my friend in thailand   :Dancin' Banana:

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## JoMo

This is really interesting

Couldn´t this be an hormonal change ? It happens sometime with Green Tree Pythons (Morelia viridis), and I wonder if this could als occur in BP´s.

Take a look of this example, of the very same Sorong-type Morelia viridis (actually, the mother of my little one):

Normal


Hormonal blue


Just a thought

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## mcbrayerreptiles

I have had this happen to a boa.....she never changed back to normal colors....she just started adding black pigment everywhere....Like a IMG....I do not have her anymore, a friend of mine bought her from me and then sold it, so I don't know where she is now, but when she did her shed she lost all her color just like your spider...........

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## Venenito_X_Remedito

> Request granted.  Rick and Rusty of Rusty's Balls made an Axanthic Spider in 2007.  It was a beautiful animal.  There is a picture of it on Exotics by Nature's website, under the 2007 Tinley Park photo gallery.


 :Surprised: 

Holy omg.
*Faints*
They have some BEAUTIFUL animals there.
I love the Axanthic Pinstripe and Spider, and the purple Passion is AMAZING.

I will die a happy snake owner someday if I can ever get and/or produce any of those..... <3

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## muddoc

> Holy omg.
> *Faints*
> They have some BEAUTIFUL animals there.
> I love the Axanthic Pinstripe and Spider, and the purple Passion is AMAZING.
> 
> I will die a happy snake owner someday if I can ever get and/or produce any of those..... <3


Glad I could Oblige.  But I don't want to be the cause of our death.  LOL.

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## TheMolenater2

Ur Ball Python.....IS A CHAMELEON IN DISGUISE!!!!!!! What an amazing color, looks like an axanthic spider!

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## wolfy-hound

Can we see updated pictures? The last pic I saw was 5-08, would love to see her now.

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## aahmn

I'd want to see too. I had a completely normal snake do this, and she did return to normal after a while. It wasn't quite as drastic, but still pretty obvious. I think the pics are on my old computer though.

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## Kryptonian

Cool she looks like what I hope too produce some day. Xanthic bees. Can you have her email my spider with the secret so mine will change too. :Razz:  :Good Job:

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## SlitherinSisters

> Dude, there's gonna be two small problems. I'm exactly half the world from you and my wonderful government prohibit exportation of any kind of snake lol
> 
> Thanks y'all(especially you, Tim) for every comments, I feel a bit better now.


Oh that sucks!!!! I'd love one from her too!!!  :Sad:  That color change is amazing! I've always thought spiders had a funky quality to them, but I never thought they could turn gray!!!! Too bad they don't stay that way. That's one gorgeous snake!!!!

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## SlitherinSisters

> This is really interesting
> 
> Couldn´t this be an hormonal change ? It happens sometime with Green Tree Pythons (Morelia viridis), and I wonder if this could als occur in BP´s.
> 
> Take a look of this example, of the very same Sorong-type Morelia viridis (actually, the mother of my little one):
> 
> Normal
> 
> 
> ...


WHOA!!!!! Now that is amazing!!!!

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## WizzySRT10

WOW that's awesome looking. I was worried at first but seems like it's something somewhat normal. I think she'll make some beautiful bees for you! She's stunning before and after but man after is HOT...

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## hgrub

Updated pic, took the pic a month ago I think.

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_nixer_ (10-11-2009)

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## JenEric Reptiles

He had to much Pad THai jk .............its looks awsome!   suay mak mak!

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## I<3Dreamsicles

Wtf! she looks kinda like a paradox now lol. I liked the axanthic look  :Wink:

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## Aiion

I like this look just as much if not more.   :Cool:

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## Montie Python

> Updated pic, took the pic a month ago I think.


its like a cellphone with different color cases...

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monty's dad (01-19-2010)

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## JoshR324

WOW!  :Surprised:  the axanthic phase was awesome and the newest phase might be even cooler!

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## nixer

thats such a sweet spider! i liked every look to her

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## dimes01

> Updated pic, took the pic a month ago I think.


now it looks like a spider and a calico..
great snake!

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## Deacon240

> Here's her pic before





> She shed one day after I took the above pic...and here's how she look today when I found her


Pattern is completely different on the head... Just saying.

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## het.pied

your looking at the other snake....

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_Anatopism_ (08-20-2011),_thewesterngate_ (08-20-2011)

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## BPelizabeth

what in the world are you sprinkling on her food?? :Surprised:

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## Aeries

That's officially the most beautiful BP I've ever seen! I'd buy one that looked like that in a heartbeat! I love grey-toned snakes! 
I never heard of crazy color changes like that! Too cool!

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## Deacon240

> your looking at the other snake....


Yep, just noticed. I'm officially confused as all hell now c:

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## SawyerBalls

That is unbelievable! Shoot...what are you feeding her??...biohazardous lab rats??
If soo, i know a few of my normals would be dying to sink their teeth in some axantic producing feeders. but in all seriousness i hope it's nothing serious

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## Kaorte

Heads up everyone, this thread is well over a year old..

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## twistedtails

> Heads up everyone, this thread is well over a year old..


 :Rochambeaux:

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## oppie2005

sorry to resurrect a really old thread, was wondering what the spider looks like now.....2 years later?

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lasweetswan (08-20-2011)

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## rebelrachel13

Just going to bring this back because it's really freaking awesome. Never seen anything like it.  :Weirdface: 

I'd like to see this snake now too if the OP is still around.  :Good Job:

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