# Colubrids > Hognose >  Kova Progression Thread

## GpBp

So 
I recently added a female conda hognose to my little collection (recently as in 12 days ago), and she has been so cool to have! Being completely honest, I _did_ impulse buy her. I mean, I was ready and all I just feel like I wasn't mentally? Idk but she stressed me out the first couple days lol, I would've posted this thread sooner. It's gotten much much better now and she's definitely part of the family now! 
Kova (guess her name reference)'s on a 5-day food schedule and eats pinkys like a champ! ..Well I've only fed her twice, but she ate great both times  :Smile: ) Here's her eating last night: https://youtu.be/iL2etwzWr8s 
I didn't know she was going to strike sideways  :ROFL: But she ended up getting it down just fine. 
She's in qt right now, the only times we've interacted with her were when we received her (to check her over and weigh before putting her in her tank), and I also dug her out once (didn't actually pick her up), just because it was a couple days after she arrived and although I knew she was fine, I just _had_ to check and make sure :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): . She's 6 weeks old and 7g, and I'm very happy to have her!

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C.Marie (09-10-2018),_dakski_ (10-10-2018)

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## C.Marie

She is precious,  pretty big enclosure for such a tiny babe, I be a nervous wreck :Wink: , glad she is eating well and adjusting to her new home. Thank you so much for sharing and best wishes always.. :Good Job:

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_GpBp_ (09-10-2018)

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## GpBp

> She is precious, pretty big enclosure for such a tiny babe, I be a nervous wreck, glad she is eating well and adjusting to her new home. Thank you so much for sharing and best wishes always..


Thanks so much! And ya, I didn't know she'd be _that_ tiny lol! I would've got for a 5gal. But she seems to navigate it well  :Wink:  Thanks!

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C.Marie (09-11-2018)

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## CloudtheBoa

Congrats!  Hoggies are such wonderful little snakes.  :Smile:

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_GpBp_ (09-10-2018)

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## GpBp

> Congrats!  Hoggies are such wonderful little snakes.


Thank you!! They really are <3

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## GpBp

Alright! Little update on Kova. First off, I don't know if this is my scales fault, but apparently, she's gained 23g in 35 days! I don't know if that's right, 7g-30g in 5 weeks, I'll reweigh her when I can. What happened was I got her out really quick last night to spot clean and weigh, and when I saw 30g I thought that was normal lol. Guess I just got her weights messed up with my cresties. When I was writing it in her notebook -after I put her back- I was like "Wait..." I'll just reweigh and check when I can next  :Smile: 

But here's the thing-
She's had 6 successful feedings with us, and tonight was supposed to be her 7th. (About an hour ago) I was warming her mouse and searching for her under the aspen (which took forever! I always dig her out _gently_ before I feed if she's not out already, that way she's awake and alert), and when I found her she seemed a little squirmy. Not sure if this has anything to do with it, she's been squirmy some other times. When I offered the mouse she turned away from it. I rubbed it on her side and tried to offer like normal but she just wouldn't have it! Eventually, she started hissing at it! I understood she wasn't happy and very tense, so I just tried for a few more seconds. More hissing and she even did a bluff strike! So I set it on her rock and turned her lights off. About 30 mins later when I put everyone else to bed, I checked just using my phone light and she was hidden and the pinky was still on the rock.
I feel bad now  :Sad:  I really hope I didn't stress her out too much. She's still eating on a 5-day schedule and the last I had her out was last night. I weighed her and let my mom hold her while I spot cleaned her tank. Only 5 minutes.
Besides all of that she's doing really good here. Super healthy and everything, we were so excited when we finally got to hold her! She's very sweet.
Any advice would be appreciated, thank you!

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## pretends2bnormal

I'm no hognose expert, but if she has grown that much, I dont think it would be unusual to get a food refusal due to an oncoming shed.  Since you didnt mention a shed, I would guess that is likely after than many meals even if your scale was off somehow.  

The only things I know of that are pretty regular about eating in shed are corn snakes and king snakes, so if it is an incoming shed then it isnt surprising to get a refusal.  

Aside from that, I'll leave any other suggestions to someone who is more familiar with the species.  :Smile: 

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_GpBp_ (10-02-2018)

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## GpBp

> I'm no hognose expert, but if she has grown that much, I dont think it would be unusual to get a food refusal due to an oncoming shed.  Since you didnt mention a shed, I would guess that is likely after than many meals even if your scale was off somehow.  
> 
> The only things I know of that are pretty regular about eating in shed are corn snakes and king snakes, so if it is an incoming shed then it isnt surprising to get a refusal.  
> 
> Aside from that, I'll leave any other suggestions to someone who is more familiar with the species. 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Thank you! Thatd make sence 🤣 Ill see what others have to say too, but thanks! She hasnt shed yet here. Also, she didn't eat over night. She came out after I threw her mouse away, here she is  :Smile: 

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## pretends2bnormal

Such a cutie!  Hopefully you'll start seeing signs of the shed coming in the next few days, then.

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_GpBp_ (10-03-2018)

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## GpBp

Hmm ok
Kiva didn't eat this time either, I checked her weight today and its 9g again now? I double checked and she is truly 9g. Do you think the 30g was a misreading or was it legit? I haven't seen any signs of shed. Thanks!

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## dakski

> Hmm ok
> Kiva didn't eat this time either, I checked her weight today and its 9g again now? I double checked and she is truly 9g. Do you think the 30g was a misreading or was it legit? I haven't seen any signs of shed. Thanks!
> 
> 
> Sent from my LG-TP260 using Tapatalk


Misreading!

Small prey equals small growth. My 1,100G boa eats a medium rat (110-130G or so) every 3 weeks and gains 30-50G a feeding.

No way she went from 7G to 30G and then back to 9G. 

If she went from 7G to 9G in 35 days, that sounds good. 

My female Corn snake (baby), went from 22G to 28G in the past 30 days eating a meal every 5-6 days that averaged 4-5G each. I imagine you are feeding much smaller prey than that. 

Either way she looks great and congrats on a wonderful little hoggie! I wanted one, but can't take the risk of a bite because I am immune suppressed due to a kidney transplant. I ended up with an Albino Carpet Python instead. Not too bad. However, I am still living vicariously through you and other Hognose owners. SOOOOO CUTE.

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Craiga 01453 (10-17-2018),_GpBp_ (10-10-2018)

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## GpBp

> Misreading!
> 
> Small prey equals small growth. My 1,100G boa eats a medium rat (110-130G or so) every 3 weeks and gains 30-50G a feeding.
> 
> No way she went from 7G to 30G and then back to 9G. 
> 
> If she went from 7G to 9G in 35 days, that sounds good. 
> 
> My female Corn snake (baby), went from 22G to 28G in the past 30 days eating a meal every 5-6 days that averaged 4-5G each. I imagine you are feeding much smaller prey than that. 
> ...


Thank you so much! I figured there was no way, but I'm still getting used to her and I didn't know if maybe she could gain that much somehow? Thought I'd get an opinion lol. Thanks for answering so quick! I'll start posting pics and updates more often to help you survive  :Wink: 
Why would she not be eating though? Seems like it's kind of early to be due to a shed, I haven't seen any signs at all.  :Confused:  Hope she's not starting to get picky... Guess I'll just offer again in 2 days ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Thanks again  :Smile:

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## MinniesBuggies

> Thank you so much! I figured there was no way, but I'm still getting used to her and I didn't know if maybe she could gain that much somehow? Thought I'd get an opinion lol. Thanks for answering so quick! I'll start posting pics and updates more often to help you survive 
> Why would she not be eating though? Seems like it's kind of early to be due to a shed, I haven't seen any signs at all.  Hope she's not starting to get picky... Guess I'll just offer again in 2 days ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
> Thanks again


My female hognose (3 months old) went off feed before she got blue eyed and shed she ended up missing 5 meals (I offer ever 3 days) and hasn't eaten since  :Sad:  that was 4 meals ago. So she's missed 9 meals total. So it's possible yours could be going into shed and you won't notice her blue eyes till like a day or two before she sheds .. or maybe weather change? I've read that the weather can have an impact on their feeding schedule

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_GpBp_ (10-14-2018)

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## GpBp

She didn't eat again  :Sad:  Starting to get worried! That's 20 days no food  :Sad: 
Should I do anything? Should I be worried? Thanks

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## HannaKessler

Most likely a misread somehow.  Maybe your scale was zeroed wrong.

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## GpBp

Cmon Kova...

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## GpBp

Nope  :Sad:  This is the 25th day shes gone w/o food. Im really worried. I dont understand, im doing it the exact same as i was in the beginning when she was eating but now she just doesnt seem interested at all! She smells it and knows its there but just turns and leave, and if i try to press it further she starts hissing. Im leaving it overnight again, i doubt shell take it. Should she see a vet? Thanks  :Sad: 

*i weighed her 2 days ago and she hasnt lost anything, still 9g

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## tttaylorrr

> Nope  This is the 25th day shes gone w/o food. Im really worried. I dont understand, im doing it the exact same as i was in the beginning when she was eating but now she just doesnt seem interested at all! She smells it and knows its there but just turns and leave, and if i try to press it further she starts hissing. Im leaving it overnight again, i doubt shell take it. Should she see a vet? Thanks 
> 
> *i weighed her 2 days ago and she hasnt lost anything, still 9g
> 
> Sent from my LG-TP260 using Tapatalk


relax bby!!! have you reached out to @Deborah or @craigafrechette ? if i had a hognose issue, they'd be my #1s.

the lack of weight loss is good; that's not a bad sign.

good luck!!! you both got this.

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_GpBp_ (10-18-2018)

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## Craiga 01453

Hey, sorry I somehow missed this thread til now, thanks @tttaylorrr for bringing it to my attention (as well as for the compliment  :Smile: )

Anyway, @Deborah is much more experienced and knowledgeable than I am, but here's what I would do...

I would switch her to a smaller enclosure and start from scratch, as if you just brought her home and she hasn't eaten yet for you. 

No handling during this time until she's back to eating consistently.  

Also, I wouldn't offer more often than every 5 days to start. Offering too often can further stress the snake and be counter productive, causing more refusals. 

I would also stop trying to dig her out if she's burrowed prior to feeding. Simply open her enclosure and offer.  She'll be able to smell the prey. Most hognose won't eat off tongs that young either, so I would just dangle and wiggle a little to spread the aroma and leave the prey. She'll smell it and find it when she feels it's safe to come out. 

As for the huge weight gain, there's no way. Pinkies only weigh 2-3 grams and are primarily water since the mouse hasn't developed yet. So her intake hasn't been close to that. Hognose have a very fast metabolism too, so A decent amount of the intake is processed and "disposed of". So there was an error there somewhere. 

Hope I helped out here. Good luck. Hopefully Deb will see this soon and correct me if I was wrong anywhere in my advice or reaffirm what I said and help you further.

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_GpBp_ (10-18-2018),_tttaylorrr_ (10-17-2018)

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## GpBp

> Hey, sorry I somehow missed this thread til now, thanks @tttaylorrr for bringing it to my attention (as well as for the compliment )
> 
> Anyway, @Deborah is much more experienced and knowledgeable than I am, but here's what I would do...
> 
> I would switch her to a smaller enclosure and start from scratch, as if you just brought her home and she hasn't eaten yet for you. 
> 
> No handling during this time until she's back to eating consistently. 
> 
> Also, I wouldn't offer more often than every 5 days to start. Offering too often can further stress the snake and be counter productive, causing more refusals. 
> ...


I've reread this a couple times, thank you *both so so much. 
I'll go ahead and put her in a 5gal (she's in a 10). I thought she was going to be so much bigger when she got her, I would've started her in 5 if I knew she was this tiny lol. 
I haven't been handling at all since she stopped eating, exept for the weighings of course, but those were short sessions. 
I've been offering every 5  :Smile: 
I'll stop waking her up/disturbing before she eats. Last time I didn't have too because she was always out, but I won't even if she's hidden away. 
Thanks guys so much again

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## Craiga 01453

> I've reread this a couple times, thank you *both so so much. 
> I'll go ahead and put her in a 5gal (she's in a 10). I thought she was going to be so much bigger when she got her, I would've started her in 5 if I knew she was this tiny lol. 
> I haven't been handling at all since she stopped eating, exept for the weighings of course, but those were short sessions. 
> I've been offering every 5 
> I'll stop waking her up/disturbing before she eats. Last time I didn't have too because she was always out, but I won't even if she's hidden away. 
> Thanks guys so much again



All sounds good. You might want to go even smaller than a 5 gallon though. Cosmo came to me in a 2.5 gallon and wasn't eating. I put him in a small Tupperware container inside the 2.5 and blocked out the sides so he felt super secure at that point and started eating. 
Cosmo is 86 grams as of last week, and in a 10 gallon. He stayed in the 2.5 gallon after he outgrew the Tupperware until he was about 40 grams if I recall.

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_GpBp_ (10-18-2018)

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## GpBp

> All sounds good. You might want to go even smaller than a 5 gallon though. Cosmo came to me in a 2.5 gallon and wasn't eating. I put him in a small Tupperware container inside the 2.5 and blocked out the sides so he felt super secure at that point and started eating. 
> Cosmo is 86 grams as of last week, and in a 10 gallon. He stayed in the 2.5 gallon after he outgrew the Tupperware until he was about 40 grams if I recall.


Oh wow ok Ill try a 2.5g then, is it hard to get a gradient with that small a tank though? Was cosmo in the tuperware 24/7 or just for feeding? 

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## Craiga 01453

> Oh wow ok Ill try a 2.5g then, is it hard to get a gradient with that small a tank though? Was cosmo in the tuperware 24/7 or just for feeding? 
> 
> Sent from my LG-TP260 using Tapatalk


It is a little tougher to get a gradient, but still doable. 
Cosmo was in the Tupperware full time til he outgrew it.

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_GpBp_ (10-18-2018)

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## GpBp

> It is a little tougher to get a gradient, but still doable. 
> Cosmo was in the Tupperware full time til he outgrew it.


Im sorry, I'm looking around for small 2.5-3g tanks and I can't find any that'd work for her (all for fish with holes for filters). Do you know one I could use? Or will I have to use the 5?
*I just remembered I have a 2.5g critter keeper. I just don't know how I'd heat that and what about uth?

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## Craiga 01453

> Im sorry, I'm looking around for small 2.5-3g tanks and I can't find any that'd work for her (all for fish with holes for filters). Do you know one I could use? Or will I have to use the 5?
> *I just remembered I have a 2.5g critter keeper. I just don't know how I'd heat that and what about uth?


I think you could probably use the 5 if you put a small Tupperware inside it. All I put inside it was a tiny water dish, a tiny fake plant, a tiny piece of toilet paper cardboard tube, and aspen substrate. 
I just dug out the tank he started in (he came to me in it, I didn't buy it) and looking at it it might even be a 1.5 gallon may be 2. I always thought it was 2.5, but I may be wrong. It's freaking tiny though.

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_GpBp_ (10-18-2018)

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## GpBp

I'm so stressed out. I have a 2.5 critter keeper, I couldn't use a heat light because it's too hot and the smallest uth is too big. I don't have any reptile heat tape so I'd have to order it which would take a while. I just really don't know what to do.

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## Craiga 01453

> I'm so stressed out. I have a 2.5 critter keeper, I couldn't use a heat light because it's too hot and the smallest uth is too big. I don't have any reptile heat tape so I'd have to order it which would take a while. I just really don't know what to do.


I tried to reply to your PM earlier, but your inbox was apparently full. Let me know when you clear some space and I'll reply again...

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_GpBp_ (10-19-2018)

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## GpBp

> I tried to reply to your PM earlier, but your inbox was apparently full. Let me know when you clear some space and I'll reply again...


Sorry, its clear now

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## GpBp

Okay so I changed Kova over to the tub last night and what I ended up using was this four-gallon tub I found with a 1-5 gallon UTH and I think that works? The UTH is set at 90 and checking this morning right above the UTH is about 88 and the warm side is 74 and the cool side is 72 so I don't know how to make that any warmer without making the UTH warmer, does that make sense? Anyway, I saw her out this morning and she just explored for a little bit and then went back under the Aspen so I think that's good. Also, she eats tonight, it's been 5 days since she's last eaten, so do you think it's okay to offer tonight? Thanks.

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## MinniesBuggies

> Okay so I changed Kova over to the tub last night and what I ended up using was this four-gallon tub I found with a 1-5 gallon UTH and I think that works? The UTH is set at 90 and checking this morning right above the UTH is about 88 and the warm side is 74 and the cool side is 72 so I don't know how to make that any warmer without making the UTH warmer, does that make sense? Anyway, I saw her out this morning and she just explored for a little bit and then went back under the Aspen so I think that's good. Also, she eats tonight, it's been 5 days since she's last eaten, so do you think it's okay to offer tonight? Thanks.


How'd you get her to eat?

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## GpBp

> How'd you get her to eat?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


I havent been able to for like a month. Tonight is when shes scheduled to eat next, so I was wondering if I should offer even though I just switched her over to the tub

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## dakski

> I havent been able to for like a month. Tonight is when shes scheduled to eat next, so I was wondering if I should offer even though I just switched her over to the tub
> 
> Sent from my LG-TP260 using Tapatalk


In the previous post you said she hasn't "eaten" in 5 days. I think you meant to say offered. 

If I recall, she's holding steady at about 9G, is that correct?

I would give her a few days in the new digs and then offer, if it were me. 

I believe you will have a higher probability of success.

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Craiga 01453 (10-21-2018),_GpBp_ (10-21-2018)

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## GpBp

> In the previous post you said she hasn't "eaten" in 5 days. I think you meant to say offered. 
> 
> If I recall, she's holding steady at about 9G, is that correct?
> 
> I would give her a few days in the new digs and then offer, if it were me. 
> 
> I believe you will have a higher probability of success.


Oh yes sorry, i meant offered. 9g is right, ill hive her like 2 more days i guess, i dont wanna wait too long.

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## MinniesBuggies

> Oh yes sorry, i meant offered. 9g is right, ill hive her like 2 more days i guess, i dont wanna wait too long.
> 
> Sent from my LG-TP260 using Tapatalk


Oh gotcha!

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## GpBp

I just got home from something, when I looked in her tub I saw her by the front, and what I thought was blood on the side of the tub! I got her out and gently checked her over but it turns out it was on the outside of the tub. Marker or something? It wiped off, it wasn't there the other day. Anyway, I weighed her just to check and she's 8g. I'm supposed to feed everyone else today, I don't know if the smell will stress her out or anything? I could just wait two days so they could all eat on the same day. (Everyone's in the same room). 
Also, temps now are at 75 (hot end) and 74 (cool end). 
I wouldn't have messed w/ her if nothing was wrong. I just thought I saw blood and had to check on her.
(Heres her tub btw)

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## GpBp

Nothing  :Sad:  
I just put it on the rock and she looked for a couple minutes and now shes burrowed again
I don't know what to do

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## GpBp

Bump?
Im sorry its only been 11hrs but i really need help with this.

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## Craiga 01453

> Bump?
> Im sorry its only been 11hrs but i really need help with this.
> 
> Sent from my LG-TP260 using Tapatalk


Hey, sorry, been busy at work...on a quick break now...

I would PM @Deborah and ask her advice. She'll be better equipped to trouble shoot than I am. In Deb I trust.

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_GpBp_ (10-24-2018),_tttaylorrr_ (10-24-2018)

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## GpBp

update i guess? 
little late but she's been eating super well now. followed debs advice and moved her into something a little smaller and ditched the tongs.. im trying to think of anything else but that was a while ago lol. shes doing really good. not sure on weight atm.. if i had to guess i think it was somewhere around 14 but i could be getting animals mixed up in my head lol. if i remember ill get some pics of her tub when i get home, but heres some of my most recent pics of the babe I have on my phone. (taken late last month)

oh- and something probably worth mentioning, i havent seen any shed or signs of shed since i got her. i know she shed with breeder right before she came, and ive been thinking i couldve just dumped it out with the rest of the bedding on accident. idk, thoughts?

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_Dianne_ (04-17-2019)

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