# Site General > Pet Related Laws & Legislation >  WARNING - BAN ON BOAS & PYTHONS!! - HR6311 Reintroduced as HR669

## Stewart_Reptiles

http://www.hsus.org/press_and_public...ed_012709.html




> Congresswoman Bordallo Introduces Bill to Protect People and Native Wildlife by Addressing Exotic Animal Importation 
> 
> 
> January 27, 2009
> 
> The Humane Society of the United States and Humane Society International welcomed the introduction yesterday of the Nonnative Wildlife Invasion Prevention Act (H.R. 669) in the U.S. House of Representatives by Congresswoman Madeleine Z. Bordallo (D-Guam). 
> 
> The bill is designed to prevent the introduction and establishment in the United States of nonnative wildlife species that may harm the economy, the environment, human health or native wildlife. H.R. 669 would require the federal government to assess the risk of nonnative wildlife species proposed for importation and, with public input, decide if the importation of these animals should be allowed or prohibited.
> 
> ...


Time for you to show your support and sign the petition http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/u...311/index.html

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_771subliminal_ (01-30-2009),_AaronP_ (02-01-2009),beavermatic (10-07-2009),_Beto510_ (09-12-2009),_CoolioTiffany_ (09-22-2009),CWalker (01-30-2009),_dreese88_ (01-30-2009),_gothkenny_ (01-30-2009),_Herp Hugger_ (10-10-2009),_joepythons_ (01-29-2009),_jsmorphs2_ (04-21-2009),Kaali (04-19-2016),karbogast (01-30-2009),KO7707 (03-21-2009),_Ladydragon_ (01-30-2009),_Lucas339_ (01-30-2009),Muze (01-30-2009),_pythontricker_ (02-09-2009),ranapipiens89 (09-23-2009),RWD (01-30-2009),_scutechute_ (01-31-2009),T.U.R.D. (11-04-2009),temec (04-03-2009),tigerfreak (08-03-2009),travy4911 (08-21-2009),XGetSome (02-22-2009)

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## joepythons

I have done my part  :Very Happy:

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T.U.R.D. (11-04-2009)

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## TJ20

Done and done.  :Smile:

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## 2kdime

Another attempt?!?

I'll do my part!

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## icygirl

Do those online petition things actually do anything?

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## TMoore

I somehow managed to sign it twice, oops.

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## Shadera

/sign

Does someone have a physical address where objections to this Bill can be snail-mailed, or perhaps a phone number?

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## Argentra

Signed. Stupid, idiotic zealots...  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  :Mad:  They hear one or two stories, usually originating because of idiot no-knowledge keepers, and they leap onto their bandwagon of "Let's get rid of all of them!"

Sorry...MAJOR pet peeve of mine.  :Smile:

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_771subliminal_ (01-30-2009),_iCandiBallPythons_ (01-31-2009),_sweety314_ (02-08-2009)

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## ThyTempest

Where is this broken screens article that the ban is supposedly based on?

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## Melicious

Signed AND e-mailed to some close friends and family.  Mwahaha.  I'm such a pusher for my hobby.  ^_^

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## Mischke

What are you suppose to put in the comment section?

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## Melicious

> What are you suppose to put in the comment section?


Whatever you think you need to say.  That's your choice.

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## crazy4reptiles88

I signed the pention and I hope they don't ban boas and pythons!!
Melissa

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## jason221

Even if this is passed, ball pythons should be exempt from this as their wild numbers are completely in check and closely regulated. The exportation of these animals from countries such as Ghana is helping to prevent the wild populations from becoming too large while at the same time also being a very successful business for the people living there.

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## janeothejungle

Well Dudes, Bring on the flaming.

I'm on the fence on this one. As one who's research is based on invasive species, I can understand the need for legislation to reduce the impact. If the hobby will not regulate itself, it is inevitable that someone else will do it for us. Although I do not agree with HR6311, as it is written, I can respect that there need to be rules. Despite what many of you seem to see as a black/white issue, there are legitimate questions to address here.  The days of 'no rules, no regulation' are over. Ask anyone who has had to acquire a permit for their retic.  We have the tendency to just yell 'boo-hiss' and pretend regulation is evil and will go away if we keep ignoring it. Instead, we should be looking at this as a chance to influence policy in a constructive way. Yes, we'll all be pissed if they were to shut down our breeding, but would it kill us to regulate the importation of new stock? Would it be a terrible thing to require licensing of large, powerful constrictors? Or of venomous species? Would the hobby die if that happened? 

I happen to think of myself as a 'responsible' hobbyist. I believe in sustainability of as many species as we can bestow it upon. And if everyone who owned or bred herps was responsible about it, this would be a non-issue and I'd be waving pitchforks and protesting it full-force. But we're not. For every reputable, sensible individual in this industry, there are several who are not. All I ask is that you actually read the legislation and consider both sides. Don't just send radical hate mail to your congressmen. Be good stewards of your hobby and offer alternatives. The bill talks about grandfathering, so perhaps suggest it be extended to all CB stock already in the US and any subsequent offspring. Fight for better, more efficient management of importation and regulation. All I'm asking is that we use our heads instead of jumping in with emotion here.


~Kat

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_blackcrystal22_ (02-01-2009),_catawhat75_ (01-30-2009),chaase321 (01-30-2009),_DutchHerp_ (01-30-2009),_Jyson_ (01-30-2009),_Patrick Long_ (01-31-2009),reptile_jones (02-01-2009),_scutechute_ (01-31-2009),_ThyTempest_ (01-30-2009),_twh_ (01-30-2009),_Wh00h0069_ (01-30-2009)

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## janeothejungle

> Even if this is passed, ball pythons should be exempt from this as their wild numbers are completely in check and closely regulated. The exportation of these animals from countries such as Ghana is helping to prevent the wild populations from becoming too large while at the same time also being a very successful business for the people living there.


and again, this is complete hearsay. There is no science, whatsoever, behind this. Please research your facts before furthering the rumors. Who did you hear this from? Were they, by chance, someone who benefits from importing?

~Kat

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_DutchHerp_ (01-30-2009),reptile_jones (02-01-2009),_twh_ (01-30-2009)

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## llovelace

Signed

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## dracovolans

> and again, this is complete hearsay. There is no science, whatsoever, behind this. Please research your facts before furthering the rumors. Who did you hear this from? Were they, by chance, someone who benefits from importing?
> 
> ~Kat


Check out the DVD "Ball Pythons in the Wild" by DR. Steve Gorzula, you would find this info and much more!!

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## Wh00h0069

Banning people from importing them into the United States would be fine with me as long as we are still able to keep, breed, and transport the ones that are already here. I don't see any reason to import 500,000 ball pythons into the United States each year. I am sure I will get flamed for this, but that is just my opinion.

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_Crazygecko_ (02-01-2009),_DutchHerp_ (01-30-2009),reptile_jones (02-01-2009)

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## asplundii

I tried signing and it said that I already had. I know that is not correct unless they just carried my sig over from the previous incarnation.

Anyone else getting this???

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## Lucas339

signed twice!!!!

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## ThyTempest

> Well Dudes, Bring on the flaming.
> 
> I'm on the fence on this one. As one who's research is based on invasive species, I can understand the need for legislation to reduce the impact. If the hobby will not regulate itself, it is inevitable that someone else will do it for us. Although I do not agree with HR6311, as it is written, I can respect that there need to be rules. Despite what many of you seem to see as a black/white issue, there are legitimate questions to address here.  The days of 'no rules, no regulation' are over. Ask anyone who has had to acquire a permit for their retic.  We have the tendency to just yell 'boo-hiss' and pretend regulation is evil and will go away if we keep ignoring it. Instead, we should be looking at this as a chance to influence policy in a constructive way. Yes, we'll all be pissed if they were to shut down our breeding, but would it kill us to regulate the importation of new stock? Would it be a terrible thing to require licensing of large, powerful constrictors? Or of venomous species? Would the hobby die if that happened? 
> 
> I happen to think of myself as a 'responsible' hobbyist. I believe in sustainability of as many species as we can bestow it upon. And if everyone who owned or bred herps was responsible about it, this would be a non-issue and I'd be waving pitchforks and protesting it full-force. But we're not. For every reputable, sensible individual in this industry, there are several who are not. All I ask is that you actually read the legislation and consider both sides. Don't just send radical hate mail to your congressmen. Be good stewards of your hobby and offer alternatives. The bill talks about grandfathering, so perhaps suggest it be extended to all CB stock already in the US and any subsequent offspring. Fight for better, more efficient management of importation and regulation. All I'm asking is that we use our heads instead of jumping in with emotion here.
> 
> 
> ~Kat


Thank you for this.  I agree with you in that way too many people, especially in this community, just jump on the bandwagon before doing their own extensive research.  I did not vote because I didnt get a chance to read the broken screens article, and still no one has pointed it out, so I remain abstained.  

As for the issues, I agree with you again. If the hobby cannot regulate itself such that congress does not have to intervene, then, yes, they are going to step in and I believe they have the duty to the public to do just that.  I agree with permit requirements for hots, large constrictors (10+ feet), and possibly potentially invasive species.  I know this last one may seem a tad much and tedius, but I think it is the keepers responsibility to think of the general public and environment just as much as the hobby.




> Check out the DVD "Ball Pythons in the Wild" by DR. Steve Gorzula, you would find this info and much more!!


One movie by one doctor does not mean anything.  Scientific evidence means, and only means, articles from peer-reviewed journals.

This just reminds me of all the dentist/doctor/trainer products on tv with a professional endorsement from a guy who you know got paid buku bucks to promote said product.

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reptile_jones (02-01-2009)

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## Skiploder

> Well Dudes, Bring on the flaming.
> 
> I'm on the fence on this one. As one who's research is based on invasive species, I can understand the need for legislation to reduce the impact. If *the hobby will not regulate itself, it is inevitable that someone else will do it for us. Although I do not agree with HR6311, as it is written, I can respect that there need to be rules. Despite what many of you seem to see as a black/white issue, there are legitimate questions to address here.*  The days of 'no rules, no regulation' are over. Ask anyone who has had to acquire a permit for their retic.  We have the tendency to just yell 'boo-hiss' and pretend regulation is evil and will go away if we keep ignoring it. Instead, we should be looking at this as a chance to influence policy in a constructive way. Yes, we'll all be pissed if they were to shut down our breeding, but would it kill us to regulate the importation of new stock? Would it be a terrible thing to require licensing of large, powerful constrictors? Or of venomous species? Would the hobby die if that happened? 
> 
> I happen to think of myself as a 'responsible' hobbyist. I believe in sustainability of as many species as we can bestow it upon. And if everyone who owned or bred herps was responsible about it, this would be a non-issue and I'd be waving pitchforks and protesting it full-force. But we're not. For every reputable, sensible individual in this industry, there are several who are not. All I ask is that you actually read the legislation and consider both sides. Don't just send radical hate mail to your congressmen. Be good stewards of your hobby and offer alternatives. The bill talks about grandfathering, so perhaps suggest it be extended to all CB stock already in the US and any subsequent offspring. Fight for better, more efficient management of importation and regulation. All I'm asking is that we use our heads instead of jumping in with emotion here.
> 
> 
> ~Kat



Very well stated.  The problems this hobby faces have been brought on, in large part, by the hobby itself. 

We have done a very poor job of self regulation on almost every level.  It was inevitable that if the hobby could not show constraint, that constraint would be applied from somewhere else.

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reptile_jones (02-01-2009)

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## Jyson

I signed it.

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## dracovolans

> One movie by one doctor does not mean anything.  Scientific evidence means, and only means, articles from peer-reviewed journals.
> 
> This just reminds me of all the dentist/doctor/trainer products on tv with a professional endorsement from a guy who you know got paid buku bucks to promote said product.


Do you know who Dr. Gorzula is. Thanks to his job this hobby is what it is today. 

Read this..

____________________________________________

Dr. Steve Gorzula Presents - Ball Pythons in the Wild (DVD)

Embark on an amazing field trip with Dr. Steve Gorzula as he takes you on a fantastic journey through the bush of Ghana, Africa to learn about and explore ball pythons in their natural habitat!

Ball or Royal pythons (Python regius) are possibly the most popular snake species for reptile hobbyists in America. They are an extremely beautiful species having a wide variety of color and pattern mutations. They are easy to keep, very docile and rarely bite. They make fantastic pets and are a great teaching tool for schools. But, where do ball pythons come from? Have you ever seen pictures or film of them in the wild? No? Then, read on!

In 1997, Dr. Steve Gorzula led a field team to survey ball pythons in Ghana, Africa and to develop a management plan for their sustainable use. Since submitting their report to CITES (Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora), Ghana, Togo, and Benin have exported approximately 1.5 million ball pythons to the international pet trade, with 85% of them destined to the USA alone.

Did you know that the international pet trade of ball pythons was almost shut down? Did you also know that this survey is the reason why you can now acquire ball pythons today? In this DVD, you will accompany Dr. Steve Gorzula and his colleagues on an amazing field trip to learn about ball pythons in their natural habitat. This is "in the trenches" biology at its finest! You will meet and come face to face with many other wild animal species such as venomous spitting cobras, African pythons, imperial scorpions, dwarf crocodiles, African giant rats, "grass cutters", pangolins, and hedgehogs. If you are a ball python enthusiast, a herpetologist or a person who loves animals then this is real field biology for you! 

You will witness never before seen footage of the Ewe tribe who consider the ball python to be sacred. You will be part of their annual ball python festival as you witness their sacred ceremony first hand. You'll also see and learn the importance of protocol and libation ceremonies with the local kings and chiefs of villages in Ghana. 

Later, you will join inspections of exporters' installations, and see where your pet python started its journey. You will share some time with the students at the University of Kumasi as well. Finally, you will see what happens when you answer an emergency call from a school where the children were scared about the crocodiles in the pond across the street. We capture the crocodiles in the night and take them to the school the next day. The only problem is that we didn't call the school beforehand to let them know that we were bringing the crocs with us!

Dr. Steve Gorzula is a biodiversity conservation and natural resources management specialist. He has more than 30 years experience in environmental and social impacts of development projects, environmental legislation, river basin management, wildlife conservation, commercial wildlife management, the Convention on International Trade in Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES), ecological inventories, human impacts on biodiversity, biomedicine, and endemic and protected areas. Of these 30 years, he has spent 24 living and working in developing countries. Dr. Steve has described two new genera and 22 new species of reptiles and amphibians. A species of frog and two species of endemic plants are named after him.

Click here to read Dr. Steve Gorzulas' official SURVEY OF THE STATUS AND MANAGEMENT OF THE ROYAL PYTHON (Python regius) IN GHANA report in Adobe PDF format. 

_________________________________________

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## ThyTempest

> Do you know who Dr. Gorzula is. Thanks to his job this hobby is what it is today. 
> 
> Read this..
> 
> ____________________________________________
> 
> Dr. Steve Gorzula Presents - Ball Pythons in the Wild (DVD)
> 
> Embark on an amazing field trip with Dr. Steve Gorzula as he takes you on a fantastic journey through the bush of Ghana, Africa to learn about and explore ball pythons in their natural habitat!
> ...




Woohoo....he has done a lot for the hobby....that does not mean we should listen to everything he says.  You know, cult leaders tend to do quite a bit for their subordinates, and works out wonderfully in the end sometimes....other times, they make the news for the kool-aid killing.

I still think any and all "evidence" should be from reputable sources, which in my mind means peer-reviewed materials. If this movie is from a peer-reviewed publisher, then by all means, it would be significant....if not, it does just about as much for the hobby (in this situation) as a guy who does a youtube with a stuffed animal ball python in his back yard.

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reptile_jones (02-01-2009)

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## nixer

for those that want to read the entire bill: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.669.IH:
there is no permit status for individuals at all.

and here is the ppl that supported this bill:

  By Ms. BORDALLO (for herself, Mr. GEORGE MILLER of California, Mr. ABERCROMBIE, Mr. HASTINGS of Florida, Mr. KIND, Mr. MCGOVERN, Mrs. NAPOLITANO, Mr. GRIJALVA, Mr. KLEIN of Florida, and Mr. KILDEE):

here is the current action:
Latest Major Action: 1/26/2009 Referred to House committee. Status: Referred to the House Committee on Natural Resources.

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## nixer

and a petition will not stop this in order to stop this contact your house rep here: 
https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml

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reptile_jones (02-01-2009)

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## janeothejungle

> Check out the DVD "Ball Pythons in the Wild" by DR. Steve Gorzula, you would find this info and much more!!


Oh, I've seen it. The real question is, do YOU know who Dr. Gorzula is?? Have you read his 'expertise' in the Ghana report? (and here I will point out that Gorzula did virtually NONE of the 'research', he was just the guy they reported to, the actual authors are owned by the govt of Ghana).

One point to note is that it is strictly a CITES report, it has so little 'research' and statistical fact that it would NEVER make it into a peer-reviewed journal (which is the foundation of good science in the developed world). Gorzula, btw, is know to favor economic development over solid research, which is partly why his CV covers a wide range of topics (brittle stars?), none of them in depth. The entire paper is a monument for trying to sound legitimate when you are anything but (just throw in a random t-test and some big words).
You find it interesting that one guy is the 'authority' in a field where no other sources are available??

~Kat

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## Shadera

I agree that yes we need regulation.  BUT.  The problem with bills like this is that it starts small and then gives them a foot in the door to eventually completely ban our animals.  

There was recently a bill proposed in PA to ban nanday conures and some other exotics.  I don't own a nanday, nor do I live in PA, but I still wrote and fought the proposal.  Why?  Because today it's nandays in PA, but given a foothold tomorrow it might be a species I _do_ have and in _my_ state.

When they propose something with some genuine thought behind it that will actually benefit the hobby and not hurt it, THEN I'll support it.  But until then, I guess I'm just another "sheep on the bandwagon".

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_sweety314_ (02-08-2009)

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## Inknsteel

> I somehow managed to sign it twice, oops.


Oops, me too...  :Wink:

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## Wh00h0069

After reading over the bill, I realized that they are trying to ban: owning, selling, and transporting boas and pythons across state lines, so I am against this bill.

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_nixer_ (01-30-2009)

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## rjs73

What some of don't understand is that if this bill passes you will not be allowed to sell reptiles over state lines. That would mean that every pet store would also be affected. I personally don't know of any pet store that could supply themselves with any reptiles. And this bill is not just about reptiles. It includes mammals,fish,birds,and amphibians. This bill if passed would do nothing more than destroy more jobs in an already crumbling economy.

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_nixer_ (01-30-2009)

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## dizzy

Yeah, the long letter I just wrote to my congressman Paul Ryan mentioned the effect this might have on the economy several times.

I honestly am not opposed to putting strict limits on the importation of animals from other countries. 

But banning breeding, selling and transportin animals across states? Why? What good is that really going to do? It has no effect on the population of the wild animals in other countries. And as to animals being released into the wild and messing with our ecosystem or killing native species... You could just as easily release the animal in one state as the other. 
Nobody says to themselves    "Gee, I'm an irresponsible jerk and I bought a boa constrictor thinking I could keep it from getting too big and now that it is too big I want to release it into the wild (when I could see it on craigslist and make profit instead) but I don't want to release it in my state. I will release it in the state next to me. Oh wait, I can't do that now? Okay, I'll just keep it."

Banning the transport of these animals from one state to another will have absolutely no positive outcome. Only negative.

grr. :Mad:

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## rjk890

Damn, I guess the reptile industry won't be getting any of the 850+ Billion dollar economic stimulus package, huh.
I was kinda' hoping for a bailout!  :Salute:  (it's the American Dream.)

I'm sure Million's of dollars are being spent to fight the spread of Boa's and Pythons from reaching 2/3 of the country  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): .

Maybe all of the Boa and Python breeders that they put out of business can get Government jobs catching snakes in the everglades, and we hobbyists can just start keeping feral cats.

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## daniel1983

....have they ever banned cats as pets yet? As an 'invasive' species, cats have done more harm then ANY reptiles in the US. Why isn't there a bill to regulate them?

...or maybe we should have even more goverment control......remember when the Chinese government was out clubbing everyone's dogs to death because they deamed them hazardous due to a few reported cases of rabies?

Regulation is great and all........but regulation with THIS government is ALL or NONE. No middle ground. You open the door and it gives politicians the room to write all sorts of new laws and policies......thats what they have to do to keep themselves employed.

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_Patrick Long_ (01-31-2009),_sweety314_ (02-08-2009)

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## SamuraiZr0

consider me signed!!!

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## snakelady

Signed it. 
It would help if we all wrote letters or called also.

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## 2kdime

Where the heck do you sign it? I'm not seeing it....

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## kitsunex

i'd sign, but whats the point? its just an online petition which are ignored more so than an actual written petition. why? because there isn't a way to verify the signatures. unless you are writing to your actual political representative, you are wasting you time.

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## sg1trogdor

Signed and signed.  I really hope these ppl get their heads out of their you know whats and stop trying to propose this.  It is really a pointless proposition.  I could understand maybe some sort of necessary certification of something along those lines as opposed to a ban.  Hell they could make you take some test or class on snakes and charge you or something I really wouldnt mind.  But hey who am I but some schmo who keep "dangerous animal"  that in a heartbeat would eat your children.  lol.   I hope they get some sense about them.   :Please:  :Please:  :Please:  :Please:

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_sweety314_ (02-08-2009)

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## sg1trogdor

Well If I read that correctly its still just a ban on importing animals correct?  Not on banning the owning of boas or pythons.  Which I am sure im missing the bigger picture here but I don't and wouldn't knowingly buy a WC animal anyways so whats the deal.  Still a stupid proposal but I don't see it affecting us too much right?  Or do wild caught animals play more of a role than I am thinking.  I am only talking about snakes here not lizards or amphibians which I know there's a lot of wild caught specimens out there.  Just curious.  I tend to read more into things than is really there sometimes.  Please correct me if I am missing the bigger picture here as politely as possible  :Very Happy:

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## nixer

> Well If I read that correctly its still just a ban on importing animals correct?  Not on banning the owning of boas or pythons.  Which I am sure im missing the bigger picture here but I don't and wouldn't knowingly buy a WC animal anyways so whats the deal.  Still a stupid proposal but I don't see it affecting us too much right?  Or do wild caught animals play more of a role than I am thinking.  I am only talking about snakes here not lizards or amphibians which I know there's a lot of wild caught specimens out there.  Just curious.  I tend to read more into things than is really there sometimes.  Please correct me if I am missing the bigger picture here as politely as possible


is not a proposal this is an actual bill introduced before the house of representatives. this is all animals period from importation!

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## sg1trogdor

> is not a proposal this is an actual bill introduced before the house of representatives. this is all animals period from importation!


Booh.

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## bobby729

ill do my part

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## llovelace

Bump to top

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## Ben_Renick

I just wanted to share some thoughts on the subject so people know exactly what this bill is about.

1. No Importing/Exporting of any Non-Native Wildlife.  I understand the number of Ball Pythons that come into the US can be ridiculous at times.  But does that mean go ahead and stop Importing/Exporting of all Boas/Pythons?  That would mean Epicrates Subflavus and Morelia Boeleni would both most likely not be kept in captive collections anymore.  :Tears: 

2. Cannot Transportation between State lines.  That basically means you cannot sell anything outside of your own state, which if you go down to #4, this would affect all of the same people and businesses!

3. Cannot violate any Term/Condition of a Permit System.  That goes without saying.  Although it doesn't matter if you can't own anything.

4. Cannot Possess, Sell, Purchase, or Barter any snake that is not allowed to be Imported/Exported.  So basically this is the Goodbye to the hobby.  Breeders, Rodent Suppliers, Rodent Food Suppliers, Bedding Companies, Reptile Supply Companies, Cage Companies, Exotic Pet Stores, etc. etc. etc. will all either be drastically affected, if not completely put out of business.

5. Cannot release any non-native wildlife into the wild.  Goes without saying.

6. Cannot breed any non-native wildlife.  Well, there goes everyone that has ever bred a Python/Boa or ever planned/dreamed on breeding a Python/Boa.  There goes captive collections in only a matter of years, especially if no new animals are being brought in.


I can't understand how anyone could agree with this bill in anyway what-so-ever.  This would of course have an impact on the economy and thousands upon thousands of businesses and lives.  I know that a lot of you think that the numbers of Ball Pythons coming into the United States should be cut back and that's fine, but this bill is NOT the answer.

I can see where people are coming from on the large constrictors.  But I can tell you once they start putting regulations on them, they are going to get more and more strict until the point that you just can't keep them anymore.  Does anyone actually think they're just going to stop at large constrictors and not continue to put more regulations on owning exotic reptiles?

I strongly feel people really need to start fighting for this hobby as a whole and not just what they like and keep.  This hobby will never make it if we can't ban together and fight for it entirely.  We can't just fight for Ball Pythons guys/gals, there are many other species that aren't as commonly kept that need our help too! :Snake: 

There are many species, people, and businesses that would be affected by this, so PLEASE write your congressman.  Be polite and sensible with your letters, there are many things that will be affected aside from just your rights to keep reptiles.  :Salute: 

I have many thoughts on this and I just wanted to share a few.  Thanks everyone.

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_sweety314_ (02-08-2009)

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## SGExotics

I've signed the petition, and sent out the message it gives you, on the email to forward to friends, to all my 1,010 contacts on youtube, through a big broadcast message.

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## simplechamp

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill...?bill=h111-669

That's a link to the full text of H.R. 669, if anyone hasn't already found it

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## BrucenBruce

Keep in mind folks, that "Non-native wildlife" includes a lot more than the reptiles we love - near as I can see, that definition would include every single non-domesticated animal. By its strictest definition, that could be just about every single non-native species except cats, dogs and traditional livestock.

That's parakeets.

Ferrets.

Canaries.

Hamsters.

Parrots.

Guinea pigs.

Tropical fish, from neon tetras to snakeheads. Tilapia? Who's writing the definitions? P.E.T.A.? Hope you like tofu.

The upside is - we're not quite alone here - though the bird hobby has already lost most of its importing, they still rely on captive breeding and transportation across State lines. So does the tropical fish industry. (And compare the size of the fish section with the size of the reptile section at your local pet shop.) Of course, there'll be exceptions made for laboratory research - which H.S.U.S. and P.E.T.A. activists can then concentrate their efforts on - and release all those animals into the environment.

My (fairly cynical) $.02 - and I may owe you change.

~Bruce

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_sweety314_ (02-08-2009)

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## simplechamp

> Keep in mind folks, that "Non-native wildlife" includes a lot more than the reptiles we love - near as I can see, that definition would include every single non-domesticated animal. By its strictest definition, that could be just about every single non-native species except cats, dogs and traditional livestock.
> 
> That's parakeets.
> 
> Ferrets.
> 
> Canaries.
> 
> Hamsters.
> ...


That's the main thing I noticed when reading the bill. It doesn't say anything about any species in particular. It's ALL non-native animals.

And there is a section to include animals to be exempt from the restrictions. That's what we need to work on. Getting our beloved snakes on the list of animals that WILL be allowed. This seems like a more constructive and likely scenario, as opposed to trying to get the bill thrown out all together.

With the Great Lakes right in my backyard I've seen firsthand the damage invasive non-native species can do (zebra mussels, goby's, certain aquatic plants).

IMO The bill could be a good thing just as easily as it could be detrimental. What we need to do is make our voices heard so that responsible, educated pet owners still have the right to enjoy our hobby.

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## Reptihabitat

This is the link for the broken screen article/report.
http://www.defenders.org/programs_an...en_screens.php

This is a link for another petition to fight the bill H.R. 669
This petition is set up for responsible owners. 
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/HR669

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## simplechamp

I'm have my doubts as to how many people commenting on this issue and signing the petitions have actually completely read through the bill. There is a whole section about approving animals to be exempt from the ban. Any breeder, importer, hobbyist, or any other interested parties will be able to voice their opinion.

I am quite concerned about this issue, don't get me wrong. But I just wonder how many people sign these petitions and spread the "THE MAN IS TAKING AWAY ALL MY REPTILES AND MAKING THEM ILLEGAL!!!" hysteria, without actually reading the whole bill. As I said before I think the lawmakers will be more likely to listen to "We understand invasive species need to be controlled, but animals X, Y, and Z are not a threat, and should be allowed" rather than "This is a bad bill, throw it out"

I'm not saying don't be against the bill. I'm saying if you are going to be against it make sure you know exactly what you are against.

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## nixer

> That's the main thing I noticed when reading the bill. It doesn't say anything about any species in particular. It's ALL non-native animals.
> 
> And there is a section to include animals to be exempt from the restrictions. That's what we need to work on. Getting our beloved snakes on the list of animals that WILL be allowed. This seems like a more constructive and likely scenario, as opposed to trying to get the bill thrown out all together.
> 
> With the Great Lakes right in my backyard I've seen firsthand the damage invasive non-native species can do (zebra mussels, goby's, certain aquatic plants).
> 
> IMO The bill could be a good thing just as easily as it could be detrimental. What we need to do is make our voices heard so that responsible, educated pet owners still have the right to enjoy our hobby.


the sponsors and co-sponsors of this bill are the ones that have tried to ban both boa and pythons in the past.
out of all the great lakes invasive species only the asian carp came from the pet trade.
the great lakes situation started in various ways either from bilge water, stuck to sides of ships, and some of those plants were introduced by the dept. of natural resources for feeding trout/salmonoids. some of these are now entering the food cycle.

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## Stewart_Reptiles

Additionally to signing the petition you can also email/send your letters to the repetitives who are co-sponsoring this bill

Be polite, be articulate and *DO NOT BE DISRESPECTFUL*! This is very important!! 

Fill in subject field with 'OPPOSE HR669'

Congresswoman Madeleine Z. Bordallo http://www.house.gov/bordallo/IMA/issue.htm

Congresswoman Grace Napolitano http://www.napolitano.house.gov/contact/feedback.htm

Congressman Ron Kind http://www.house.gov/kind/contact.shtml

Congress Raul Grijalva http://grijalva.house.gov/?sectionid...ctiontree=2,49

Congressman Dale Kildee http://www.house.gov/kildee/

Congressman Ron Klein http://klein.house.gov/content/contact/

Congressman Alcee Hastings http://www.alceehastings.house.gov/i...&id=104&Itemid

Congressman Neil Abercrombie http://www.house.gov/abercrombie/e_form.shtml

Congressman George Miller http://georgemiller.house.gov/contac...08/post_1.html

Rep McGovern (no link)

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## Caskin

I've been reading over the bill several times myself to understand exactly what it's aiming for (slowly getting the picture too)... and what I think we really need at this point is someone more educated on the subject to break down the entire bill and explain it to those of us who don't speak politician. Before we go making any further assumptions on what exactly this is going to mean for us.

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## simplechamp

What I get out of the bill is this:

If the bill is enacted there will be two lists created: a list of approved non-native species, and a list of banned non-native species.

Any citizen, group, or interested party will be able to voice their opinion about which animals should be approved and which should be banned. The suggestions of animals to be included in either list "must include sufficient scientific and commercial information to allow the Secretary to evaluate whether the proposed nonnative wildlife species is likely to cause economic or environmental harm or harm to other animal species’ or human health."

For a species to be on the approved list there must be proof that the animals "are not harmful to the United States’ economy, the environment, or other animal species’ or human health" or "may be harmful to the United States’ economy, the environment, or other animal species’ or human health, but already are so widespread in the United States that it is clear to the Secretary that any import prohibitions or restrictions would have no practical utility for the United States."

To be included on the list of approved species, the animal is either not a threat, or if it is a threat the problem is already so widespread and out of control that banning the animal would have little to no postive effect.

Basically, we need to prove to the powers that be that our BP's and other snakes of interest do not pose any threat to the environment or economy. If there is enough evidence provided that the animal is not harmful it will be put on the list of approved species, and we will be allowed to keep, breed, and sell them without any issues.

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## greghall

I also suggest joining usark.org they are trying to organize the reptile community.checkout the web site

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## 2kdime

Did my part

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## scales owner

Count me in just did it.!!!!

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## JohnNJ

> I also suggest joining usark.org they are trying to organize the reptile community.checkout the web site


I checked out the usark.org website.  It seems like a good start but I don't think they're up to lobby at the national level.

Has anyone looked in to PIJAC.org ?  They work for the entire pet industry and they have people that lobby at the state and federal level.

Any feedback on PIJAC?

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## sweety314

> As for the issues, I agree with you again. If the hobby cannot regulate itself such that congress does not have to intervene, then, yes, they are going to step in and I believe they have the duty to the public to do just that.  *I agree with permit requirements for hots, large constrictors (10+ feet), and possibly potentially invasive species.*  I know this last one may seem a tad much and tedius, but I think it is the keepers responsibility to think of the general public and environment just as much as the hobby........



And just WHERE do you think the money is going to COME FROM to pay for all the bureaucratic bull**** to MANAGE these licenses?????? More paper-pushers, loopholes and system abusers....just what we need. NOT!

Do you actually think that the fees you'll have to pay to be licensed will cover the expenses to regulate, manage and maintain this system??? How many times do we have to see gov't regulation eff something up before we stop voting away our right and giving it to Big Brother to protect us from ourselves???  :Mad:  :Mad: 

I signed it.......and will continue to sign such petitions---if for no other reason than to stop the HSUS (being the front-man for PETA). 

Regulation and banning by the gov't is NOT the way to solve the problem of idiots turning their pets lose. If you think this will help, then I hope to Hades you also license (and punish for violation) all of the backyard breeders who continue to create more of a cat and dog population problem, instead of fixing Fido and Fluffy!!!!

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## sweety314

> I agree that yes we need regulation.  BUT.  The problem with bills like this is that it starts small and then gives them a foot in the door to eventually completely ban our animals.  
> 
> There was recently a bill proposed in PA to ban nanday conures and some other exotics.  I don't own a nanday, nor do I live in PA, but I still wrote and fought the proposal.  Why?  Because today it's nandays in PA, but given a foothold tomorrow it might be a species I _do_ have and in _my_ state.
> 
> When they propose something with some genuine thought behind it that will actually benefit the hobby and not hurt it, THEN I'll support it.  But until then, I guess I'm just another "sheep on the bandwagon".



Same sort of thing with breed specific legislation for dogs.....All it takes is for BSL again pits, then it'll be GSDs, then maybe chows or akitas. Eventually there will be enough outrage against doxies and beagles...etc......Start with one and it becomes a nightmare snowball from H*LL

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## sweety314

> Well If I read that correctly its still just a ban on importing animals correct?  Not on banning the owning of boas or pythons.  Which I am sure im missing the bigger picture here but I don't and wouldn't knowingly buy a WC animal anyways so whats the deal.  Still a stupid proposal but I don't see it affecting us too much right?  Or do wild caught animals play more of a role than I am thinking.  I am only talking about snakes here not lizards or amphibians which I know there's a lot of wild caught specimens out there.  Just curious.  I tend to read more into things than is really there sometimes.  Please correct me if I am missing the bigger picture here as politely as possible



S, it also bans the interstate transportion and selling of the banned animals, and only licensed facilities (read, zoos) could do so.

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## sweety314

> What I get out of the bill is this:
> 
> If the bill is enacted there will be two lists created: a list of approved non-native species, and a list of banned non-native species.
> 
> Any citizen, group, or interested party will be able to voice their opinion about which animals should be approved and which should be banned. The suggestions of animals to be included in either list *"must include sufficient scientific and commercial information to allow the Secretary to evaluate whether the proposed nonnative wildlife species is likely to cause economic or environmental harm or harm to other animal species or human health."*
> 
> *For a species to be on the approved list there must be proof that the animals "are not harmful to the United States economy, the environment, or other animal species or human health" or "may be harmful to the United States economy, the environment, or other animal species or human health, but already are so widespread in the United States that it is clear to the Secretary that any import prohibitions or restrictions would have no practical utility for the United States."*
> To be included on the list of approved species, the animal is either not a threat, or if it is a threat the problem is already so widespread and out of control that banning the animal would have little to no postive effect.
> 
> Basically, we need to prove to the powers that be that our BP's and other snakes of interest do not pose any threat to the environment or economy. If there is enough evidence provided that the animal is not harmful it will be put on the list of approved species, and we will be allowed to keep, breed, and sell them without any issues.



Do you reaaaally believe that once HSUS and PETA gets their grubby paws into this (and later, other ones) hobby via this law (if passed), that you'll have enough lobbying POWER AND MONEY to get your animals on the "approved" list????!?!!!!   :Wag of the finger:    If you do, then I've got a bridge to sell you!  It's a nasty fight, but would be much easier to prevent it from passing, than to try and get certain species on an exempt list. Don't even let them get a TOE in the front door!

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## simplechamp

> Do you reaaaally believe that once HSUS and PETA gets their grubby paws into this (and later, other ones) hobby via this law (if passed), that you'll have enough lobbying POWER AND MONEY to get your animals on the "approved" list????!?!!!!     If you do, then I've got a bridge to sell you!  *It's a nasty fight, but would be much easier to prevent it from passing, than to try and get certain species on an exempt list.* Don't even let them get a TOE in the front door!


How do you know this? Getting an animal on the approved species list requires huge amounts of money and lobbying power, yet getting the bill thrown out alltogether doesn't?

Of course I myself wouldn't have enough power and money to convince the government to allow a certain species to be approved. I could ask the same question of you: Do YOU think you have enough power and money to influence the government to throw out this bill? You know as well as I that there are very few people in this country in a position to have governmental influence on an individual basis.

That's why it's important for individuals to come together as a single entity. Isn't that the plan for everyone who wants the bill thrown out? They won't listen to one person, but if many come together they just might listen?

If the bill doesn't pass, then great, it will be a huge relief, and everyone can continue with business as usual. But what if it does pass? What then? From the way you make it sound, we are all screwed, the man will have won, and we are helpless, since none of us have money, power, or influence.

I would love to see the bill thrown out, but if it passes then our only other option is to get the animals we love on the approved species list. If you think it's naive or ridiculous to believe in that, fine. I just can't agree.

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## nixer

heres the other ban they are trying to pass

Here she is guys and gals!

By Mr. NELSON, of Florida: 

S. 373. A bill to amend title 18, United States Code, to include constrictor snakes of the species Python genera as an injurious animal; to the Committee on Environment and Public Works. 

Mr. NELSON of Florida. Mr. President, I rise today to discuss exotic pythons and the devastating impact they are having on wildlife in my home state. To combat this deadly nonnative nuisance, I am also filing a bill that will ban the interstate commerce and importation of these snakes. 

Pythons were first discovered in the Everglades in the mid-1990s, and now have a rapidly-growing breeding population within the boundary of Everglades National Park. They impact almost seventy endangered species living in the Everglades and threaten to upset the natural balance that we are spending billions of dollars to restore. When I toured the Everglades with Environment and Public Works Committee Chairman Barbara Boxer, we witnessed firsthand the damage pythons are causing, and the efforts researchers are making to eradicate them from the wild. 

These snakes were brought to Florida to be sold as pets, and were introduced into the wild by owners who could no longer handle them. They eat animals ranging from songbirds to white ibises, as well as endangered and threatened species such as the Key Largo woodrat. Pythons can grow to be 23 feet long and weigh up to 200 pounds, and there is currently no effective way of eradicating them in the wild. 

They can consume animals many times their size, and recently, researchers also found cougar parts in the stomachs of captured pythons. This development could signal a new threat to the endangered Florida panther, which we have been working so hard to save. 

Python populations have also been discovered in Big Cypress National Preserve to the north, Miami's water management areas to the northeast, Key Largo to the southeast, and many state parks, municipalities, and public and private lands in the region. 

Because climate range projections from the U.S. Geological Survey show that pythons may soon expand their range to include much of the southern third of the United States, getting their populations under control is even more pressing. 

In the last year, the State of Florida has taken some actions to address the problems created by owners who release their pythons into the wild, and I applaud these efforts. The State now requires owners of animals they call ``Reptiles of Concern''--a category that includes two species besides pythons--not only to obtain permits for their animals, but also to implant a tracking microchip in larger pythons. 

I believe federal action is also needed. That is why today I am introducing a bill that would amend the Lacey Act to ban the importation and interstate commerce of the python . This step is needed to reduce the number of pythons released into the wild by pet owners who don't understand the responsibility caring for a python entails. In 2007, preeminent environmentalist and former assistant secretary of the Interior Nathaniel Reed wrote, ``The dramatic increase in the number of snakes in the Park and Big Cypress call into question why it has taken so long for the Service to utilize its powers under the Lacey Act to prevent importation of the snake into an ecosystem where escapees and rejects have built a sustainable population.'' 

If we do not take action now, we will let python populations in Florida continue to grow and further ravage the already-fragile Everglades, as well as risk letting them spread throughout the Southern portion of the United States. 

Mr. President, I ask unanimous consent that the text of the bill be printed in the Record. 

There being no objection, the text of the bill was ordered to be printed in the Record, as follows: 

S. 373 

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. IMPORTATION OR SHIPMENT OF INJURIOUS SPECIES.

Section 42(a)(1) of title 18, United States Code, is amended in the first sentence by inserting ``; of the constrictor snake of the species Python genera'' after ``polymorpha''.

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## Lucas339

that reminds me...i have to email nelson again!

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## Ranegyr

signed.

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## snakemastercanada

I was wondering if all of us reptile and other animal keepers out there started to e-mail the people at HSUS and or PETA and your local humane society that because of their stance on reptiles we will no longer be sending in the _____ donation we have done in past years. I am thinking that if enough of us did this the humane society and HSUS would start to think their precious free money is not going to be coming in. Even if you have never donated to them before. If i ran a charity and got a hundred thousand e-mails saying i will not be giving my hard earned money to you because of BLANK i would be thinking that it is time to change policy.

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## jls6214

Done!!

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## CBI

Done deed!!! :Salute:

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