# Lizards > Rhacodactylus Geckos >  no-substrate incubation

## mainbutter

has anyone tried any kind of incubation for rhac eggs where there was no egg-to-substrate contact?  I have seen some of the no-substrate or no-substrate contact incubation used for snake eggs and was thinking of trying it out for my cresties.

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## blackcrystal22

I have heard of many people doing it with success.
Using a grate with water underneath for hydration.  :Good Job:

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## mainbutter

awesome that's what I wanted to hear, I just had not heard of anyone trying it with small gecko eggs yet!

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## Mettle

I would be concerned if this wasn't done right. First, the eggs would likely turn easier. Second, if the grating was too wide and the water beneath too deep, you'd easily risk drowning the young while at the same time making it near impossible to get down to them.

I'd love to see some pictures of substrateless rhac incubation to see the set-ups though.

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## mainbutter

i have the same concerns and am still figuring out a system that I feel good about using.

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## MKHerps

Main thing is the eggs turning. I use peralite with my eggs and they seem to turn even when burried in the perilite. I think as the gecko grows it is turning the eggs. I wrot a post about this a week ago. Out of 11 eggs 5 have rolled slightly to one side. This seems to happen as the eggs are in their last 30 days before hatching. Around the time the eggs are starting to have a more round apperance vs an oval apperance.

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## PythonWallace

I've done it successfully with leopard gecko eggs. Here is the thread I made on it. http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=73305
I'm sure there are better ways to do it, to prevent the eggs from rolling, but I'm confident that substrate-less incubation would work for just about any species that will hatch on top of some moist vermiculite.

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## asplundii

Cannot say this will necessarily work for you as I have never incubated gecko eggs but are you familiar with false bottom type set ups using light diffuser? Just thinking you could wrap window screen around the light diffuser to keep the eggs from falling through. I do this with newly morphed Dendrobates and it works great for that purpose.

Just an idea

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## Envied Reptiles

I dont see a reason to go to through the hassle of even trying when its so simple to just depress them slightly in moist vermiculite and let them sit on a counter for 60 days. Why fix it if it isnt broken is my take on this one. If we were talking about a larger egg, say a ball python, then sure i can see reasons, but for cresteds I just dont see any reason to do so.

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## Gregg Madden

> I dont see a reason to go to through the hassle of even trying when its so simple to just depress them slightly in moist vermiculite and let them sit on a counter for 60 days.


First I would like to say hello... So, Hello!!!

Second You can not fix what isnt broken but you can make it better...
There are a few reasons why the no substrate incubation method is better than "traditional" incubation methods...

Being the co-inventor of a product that will be released at this years Daytona show that utilizes the no substrate incubation method, maybe I can shed some light on the subject...

The no substrate incubation method prohibits direct contact with a wet substrate and allows approximately 100% gas exchange between the container environment and the egg membrane.
Eggs incubated buried in dampened substrate are subjected to excess water which often results in drowning the egg(s). Also in contrast to this, too little water or humidity results in egg dessication.

In other words, you can have containers with high humidity but the eggs stay dry at the same time without drying out...

Over the last few years, we have hatched 11 different species on our proto-type containers... So far this season, we have had a 100% hatch rate... Last years hatch rate was up around 96% or so...

I have also documented decreased hatch duration... All of our clutches have hatched early yet fully developed without unabsorbed egg yolks... This is due to consistant temperature and moisture intake...

Anyway, this has been my experience with this method...

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## mlededee

Have you experienced this specifically with crested geckos? If so, did the earlier hatch dates result in smaller babies? What temperature were the crested eggs incubated at and what was the approximate number of days that the babies hatched at?

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## Gregg Madden

> Have you experienced this specifically with crested geckos?


Not cresteds but gargoyles...




> If so, did the earlier hatch dates result in smaller babies?


Hatchlings of all species incubated in our containers were all normal in size... Like I said earlier, they were all fully developed without egg yolks...





> What temperature were the crested eggs incubated at and what was the approximate number of days that the babies hatched at?


 Gargoyles were incubated at 79 to 80 degrees F. and they hatched in 52 days...

I will be happy to answer any other questions on this topic...

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## mlededee

I am sure they were fully developed and whatnot, I was just curious about their actual size as I have noticed a big difference in size with cresteds that incubate for shorter periods of time than those that incubate longer. Since you are incubating fairly warm though, the temps could be lowered for a longer incubation if preferred. Anyhow, I will be interested to see what you will be introducing in Daytona.  :Smile:

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