# Other Pythons > General Pythons >  just got a baby ball python, did i do something wrong......

## FrankieCarbone

ok when i was 13 i had a ball python for about a year, loved it, but i moved and my mother made me give it away, well now im a adult, found out about a reptile expo that was coming up and decided to get another ball python.

i went to the expo this sunday, and bought the basics, a 15 tall gallon tank, bad of aspen bedding, water dish, small hiding cave, UTH under that, temperature strip, and a 75 watt blue bulb. And of course the ball python.  The way i picked him out is i basically went to every stand that were selling ball pythons and looked for the nicest one, finally after visiting three different breeders i see one with like 30 CB Ball Pythons in there and ONE shined the most out of the rest, it was the brightest and cleanest looking one, i observed it close and noticed it moves around alot, flickered his tongue etc etc, the things u are supposed to look for in a healthy snake.  So i grabbed him up, judging from the size i would say he must have just hatched last month the earliest. Hes maybe 15-16 inches and the widest part of his body is maybe 1, or maybe 1.2 inches.

Ok, so i take him home, set everything up and since then (last sunday) he would not come out of the hiding cave whats so ever unless i bring him out, i have barely handled him much since i got him.  Anyways today i finally decided to try and feed him, so i buy a small white mice from my local pet store, got a box, placed the snake in the box and dropped the mice in, after a minute or 2 the snake took interest and would strike at the mouse, but it was as if he could not get a grib on the mouse or coil, the snake striked the mouse atleast 5 times, in one of which when he striked the mouse kind of bit him i think because after which he burried his head in a coil, after that he would just look at the mouse and not even strike, finally i figuered i would help him out and i hit the mouse a few time with the end of a curtain hanger, well, i did know how easy it was to kill a mouse but i ended up like taking half his neck of, blood everywhere and the few second before the mouse died he was having like a stroke and the snake striked one last time but still no coil.

After that i dangled the dead mouse around and the snake would only look at it but wasent even striking at all, after a while he just lost interest and slidered away from the dead mouse.  So fustrated i place him back in his cage and he quickly went into his cave.  Then 10 minutes later he, for the first time came out of his hiding cave and was roaming around for a bit, at one point he opened his mouth like he kind of yawned.  Then minutes later he went back to his cave and has not come out since.


Ive read up on how alot of ball pythons can be troublesum eaters, and this was my biggest fear when i bought it. I did not want to deal with force feeding or none of that stuff.  The ball python i had when i was younger would eat a mouse once a week no problem.  Did i do something wrong here? 

By the way i dont have a humidity gauge (gonna pick one up friday) but the temp gauge reads 84 degrees all the time, sometimes maybe 82.

----------


## Simple Man

Your snake was striking defensively. You really need to let him settle in and he should be fed in his own enclosure. It sounds like you just stressed the hell out of your ball python. You should wait at least a week before trying again and don't be so hands on. Leave the mouse in the snake tank and just sit back and watch for 15 or 20 minutes. People try to "help" far too much and stress the snake out. Just my $.02...

Regards,

B

----------

AEnimaDrummer98 (09-16-2012),_angllady2_ (04-21-2011),Annie (04-21-2011),Evildrdee (04-23-2011),MJK123 (09-26-2012),_Quiet Tempest_ (04-30-2011),SnakeLady66 (05-04-2011)

----------


## jjmitchell

Ohhh where to start.... You may start by reading the ball python care sheet on this sitehttp://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...s%29-Caresheet Secondly Ditch the heat bulb they suck the humidity out of the enclosure and will be more problems than they will ever do good.  Third a happy ball python is a hidden ball python, one that is out "exploring" is stressed. Fourth feeding any snake in a separate location is stressful, and just not a good idea... The whole BS story of them being aggressive if they are fed in their habitat or recognizing you as a food source is exactly that bull crap. Hope this helps and READ THE CARE SHEET

----------

MJK123 (09-26-2012),_Simple Man_ (04-21-2011),SnakeLady66 (05-04-2011)

----------


## FrankieCarbone

i did quiet a bit of reading before i bought the snake and most of what you guys said is true, except  i've read alot on how its better to feed the snake in a different enclosure, not because it will make him less aggressive but its just easier that way, i went along with it because i figuered what the hell, better that way incase it gets messy, where he eats since its a regular box im throwing it away anyways, but will do, i will feed him in his cage.  Also i have read up on how when i first get the snake i should wait 2-3 weeks and let him be, and get settled, only i did not read that until after todays events.  

First time i ever heard anybody tell me not to use the heat bulb.  So its actually better to have no heat lamp or light at all and just a under tank heater????!

But yeh, he was stressed out as hell after that, it did not help that when i was putting him back in the cage the screen top fell and so did the heat lamp and made all this noise, the snake damn near ran into his cave.

----------


## Simple Man

Well, I have to give you some credit for coming here for help! You're going to do a great job if you keep reading. I would definately wait awhile for the snake to settle down. I wouldn't handle him for awhile either. As long as your hotside (UTH) is at 90 degrees and your coldside is around 80 degrees you don't need a lamp. A lamp can be good if your temps are cold but keep in mind it will reduce your humidity quite a bit. Keep reading and good luck!

Regards,

B

----------

_FrankieCarbone_ (04-21-2011),_Quiet Tempest_ (04-30-2011)

----------


## Homegrownscales

You have 1000x better of a chance of getting him to eat if you don't stick him in a small scary place with what to him could be a predator. Leave him in his cage. Feeding in the cage is not a problem and doesn't make
Them aggressive. Don't do that again. He was already stressed but that was way more stressful. That will actually make things worse. Anyways. Read the care sheet get familiarized and make sure he stays completely unstressed. The give him five days and try and feed him in the cage. To make it easier to watch the snake and the mouse take out the hides. So that the mouse can't get trapped in the snakes home. That will stress the little guy out if that happens.
Ps sorry if I sound like an ahole. Definitely not trying to be. Your doing good Take a deep breath now. Keep reading. 

----------

_FrankieCarbone_ (04-21-2011),_Kara_ (04-29-2011),_Quiet Tempest_ (04-30-2011),SnakeLady66 (05-04-2011)

----------


## MissDizzyBee

The yawn-looking motion was exactly that. Snake yawns are freaking adorable.  :Very Happy: 

You'll get used to the hiding quickly. I actually worry more when mine's out too long.

----------


## FrankieCarbone

thanks everybody for all the replies.  I just finished reading the care sheet.  I will take you guys advice since of course you all know more than me.  The one thing i cant do is the lighting, i live in NYC, and in the winter it can get cold as hell, and even with the heaters in my apt, there is no way i can keep 85-90 degrees in that tank with just a UTH.  I have read in the care sheet, that bright lights are bad, i will change that, i currently have a "white" sun glo neodymium daylight bulb on 24hrs, and even though here in NYC is spring, in the morning time it can get pretty cold in this apt, so i have to keep it on, anybody have any suggestions on a blue, less bright light that will still keep my tank at the temperature it needs to be? 

Also i just ordered a zoo med dual temp/humidity gauge, are those accurate enough? i know digital is better, is this good enough? i would have bought the digital but i already ordered the zoo med dual online.

----------


## Simple Man

That won't be accurate at all. Walmart sells an Acurite digital temp/hygrometer for like $12 in their "weather station outdoors" type area. You could look into a ceramic heat emitter. They screw into normal lamp sockets but only emit infrared heat instead of light.

Regards,

B

----------


## FrankieCarbone

looked up that acu-rite digital thermo/hygro, do i just velcro that inside the tank like i would the zoo med dual?

----------


## Simple Man

> looked up that acu-rite digital thermo/hygro, do i just velcro that inside the tank like i would the zoo med dual?


That should work great if you want to secure it in there! I just set mine in my tubs. That probably wouldn't look as good in a tank so you can velcro it in and then run your probe where you want so you can hide it better.

Regards,

B

----------


## Annie

> But yeh, he was stressed out as hell after that, it did not help that when i was putting him back in the cage the screen top fell and so did the heat lamp and made all this noise, the snake damn near ran into his cave.


Aarhhh! You're SO funny! I was laughing just picturing the snake jumping and taking off! You sure have got talent for writing! :Very Happy: 

BTW, if you have trouble keeping your enclosure warm enough, you could find something to close up the top of your aquarium. A scren top will let all the heat AND humidity escape as quick as you generate it. 
When shedding time comes,you'll appreciate to be able to keep a higher level of humidity without too much trouble.  :Wink: 

Personally, I have a piece of Coroplast onto my screen top, with 2 shutter like flaps at one end, so I can regulate the humidity level, but anything sightier would do even better, like a piece of plastic film cut to size. 


If that blue light is set on top of your screen, you might have to cut a hole in the plastic sheet and keep a 1in gap between the edge of the plastic film and the hot lamp. Or, if you close almost all your top screen, just leaving maybe 5% open for ventilation, you might find out that your UTH provides enough heat to maintain a proper T° level. And you wouldn't need to worry about the light stressing out your snake either. That's the option I'd try, personally.  :Smile:

----------


## loonunit

Get a nice point and click IR thermometer. Mine is really the best $10 I spent on my collection, after the lamp dimmers for the UTH. Stuff it under his hide where he hangs out and get a temperature reading where his belly is. His tummy temps should be around 90, no higher than 95. 

Breeders keep their cool temps around 80F, but he's really okay as long as he has a nice warm spot your indoor temps aren't dipping way below 70F. You really don't need the blue light--he doesn't need UV. I use red lights for a little extra heat in winter.

(What I really think he needs, though, is more hiding spots. At least a cool hide and warm hide. And clutter up his tank--crinkle up paper and fill the bottom with that for week or two. But some poster packing tubes and FedEx or OfficeMax, cut them into 10" lengths, and give him some tunnels. Ball pythons LOVE tubes. Sometimes babies take a while to settle in, and lots of clutter to explore and hide in helps.)

----------


## dryates

As for the light get an infrared bulb, easy on the eyes and the snake can't even see it, no stressing, also aluminum foil folded over a few times on the screen works too. As far as feeding goes, not sure how feeding outside the enclosure is easier, at best,

>open lid
>insert mice
>close lid

Is easier than

>open lid
>pick up snake (risk getting bit if u smell like food)
>move snake to unfamiliar place
>insert mice
>wait
>wait some more
>pick up snake after feeding( risk getting bit or regurgitation)
>put snake back in cage
>close lid

----------


## Skittles1101

What do you have to control the UTH? The UTHs get far too hot and need a dimmer or a thermostat (thermostat being better and safer, dimmer being cheaper) to control the temps. Mine read over 130* before I set up my thermostat....

----------


## FrankieCarbone

> What do you have to control the UTH? The UTHs get far too hot and need a dimmer or a thermostat (thermostat being better and safer, dimmer being cheaper) to control the temps. Mine read over 130* before I set up my thermostat....


none, i picked up the smallest version of the zoo met Repti Therm under tank heaters, it did not come with any type of control (i found that weird too) the instructions just mentions the different ways to prevent any sort of burn for example, if you room temp can exceed 80 degrees (obviously not gonna happen now in NYC) do not us, always have a thick coat of bedding where the UTH is to prevent the snake from being directly on the UTH and the glass (which i do), and monitor the temp of the cage to make sure its not heating it too much, also no water on it as it can cause cracks, etc etc  I do put my finger on it once in a while and it dosent seem like its that hot, its pretty much just warm at the most...

should i be using a different type of UTH?  And now im not sure on wether to get a infrared heater bulb, or a ceramic, which works best?  and how many watts for a tall 15 gallon tank?

----------


## Skittles1101

Well of course they don't come with a thermostat, you have to buy those separately. I touched the 130* UTH and it doesn't feel hot to our hands....

I have a dimmer ($10.00 from Home Depot) and a temp gun ($35.00 from tempguns.com) to read my temps. Far too often I've seen burns on snakes that could have been prevented. You have to *know* the temps in your tank, not guess. The kind of UTH doesn't matter as long as you have something to control it. I use those digital thermometers to monitor the ambient temps, but I live by my temp gun for the UTH, under the substrate, and above the substrate. It's MUCH more accurate, you KNOW you temps, and it PREVENTS burns. If you don't want to have to test your temps all the time then you can find a decent thermostat for around $60.00, but the dimmer does just as well as long as it is checked about 3 times a day.

----------


## rperry03

I have a 10 gal tank with half the cage covered (cool side), half the bottom covered with the UTH (warm side), a 60 watt ceramic heat emitter, and a thermostat that regualates everything really well. 

My thermostat is not a digital but a dial so it took a little bit to nail down the temps.

----------


## Nektu

> I actually worry more when mine's out too long.


Agreed. One of the bp's I bought at the beginning of the month only goes into her hide when she sleeps. The rest of the time she's out and about exploring. For this simple reason I pretty much leave her well alone and only go into her enclosure to spot clean and feed her. I never take her out of the enclosure and place her someplace else to feed her. The first few days she would wrap around her water bowl and hiss at me whenever I just passed by. But it was only a few times. 

Let your snake get used to the change. Ditch the light as suggested above. But keep an eye on her. Log it's eating pattern. If mine aren't eating on their schedule I keep a better watch on them to make sure nothing is wrong.

----------


## Homegrownscales

Well if it feels warm to your touch it's already too warm. Our temps are 97.f and the temp the uth needs to be at is 90-92 tops. So it wouldn't feel warm to the touch. A snake likes to keep their body temp at 88 that's why they feel cold to us.  I would go get a dimmer.  Home depot sells the plug in lamp dimmers that will work for the time being. Like I said earlier put the thermom probe on the glass and secure it there with hotglue. Then you will have to fiddle with the dimmer starting in on all The way low and adjust up until you reach 92.f and make sure it stays there.

----------

texanborn (04-22-2011)

----------


## rperry03

> A snake likes to keep their body temp at 88 that's why they feel cold to us.


I have looked ALMOST everywhere for this info and never had any luck. Is this a textbook fact or your opinion? And is this temp just for balls or a rule of thumb for all snakes?

----------


## Nektu

That temp should work for ball pythons as well as boa constrictors.

----------


## Homegrownscales

It's just what my vet told me a long time ago when I was learning all this info. As well as whenever I've needed to do soaks that's the recommend temp for the water bc it's most comfortable to them. Ive read it In other stuff I just can't remember what.

----------


## FrankieCarbone

just to be sure this is what you are talking about correct?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Digital-Thermome...97689082563077

no wal marts here in NYC so i would have to order on ebay......

----------


## loonunit

That looks nice a good in-tank thermometer/humidity gauge. Certainly looks better than my humidity gauges...

This is the sort of thing I'm recommending for measuring hot spot temps:

http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog/...mperature-gun/

(By $10, I guess really meant $30. Sorry, realized after I'd posted that I'd spent more like $30 on my IR thermometer.)

----------


## loonunit

And here's the tabletop lamp dimmer we recommend for the UTH:

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...atalogId=10053

They sell them in the lighting section at home depot, not electrical. Here's a recent thread on hot spot temps:

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...at-Pad-too-HOT!

----------

_Skittles1101_ (04-21-2011)

----------


## Skittles1101

> That looks nice a good in-tank thermometer/humidity gauge. Certainly looks better than my humidity gauges...
> 
> This is the sort of thing I'm recommending for measuring hot spot temps:
> 
> http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog/...mperature-gun/
> 
> (By $10, I guess really meant $30. Sorry, realized after I'd posted that I'd spent more like $30 on my IR thermometer.)


Yeah I have seen that one and have heard good things. Here's another though just in case:
http://tempgun.com/

I'd be completely useless if I didn't have it, I live by my PE-2 seriously.

----------


## FrankieCarbone

how about this one

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...atalogId=10053

wonder if works just as good, reason be, i can pick this up right away at a home depot here, instead of ordering online and having to wait a week to get it........

----------


## Skittles1101

Yes I knew Home Depot carried them, that looks alright. Just keep in mind the +/-4* accuracy, that means it could be up to 4 degrees higher or lower than what it's reading. That's not bad, but just make sure you keep it in mind for any temp gun you purchase. Some are more accurate than others, but that should definitely work.

----------


## mommanessy247

as far as the placement of the accu-rite..here's how i have mine...

it is velcro'd to the back glass in the middle...



this pic above also shows my whole set up...identical hides on both ends (warm side is the left half, cool side is the right half. left side hide box and water dish are both directly over the heat pad which is underneath the whole terrarium.) 
the cord hanging off the left side of the dresser is actually the cord for the thermostat's probe. the thermostat unit itself is actually up resting on the top of the terrarium. 
oh and if you notice 1 side of the terrarium is elevated, that's so there's some ventilation for the heat pad and it keeps the heat pad off the surface of my dresser. 

a close up showing where the accu-rite is...



there's also 2 water dishes cuz i found i can maintain humidity better with 2 water sources, whereas 1 water source doesnt provide enough moisture. plus, i know there's plenty of water for my girl & i spend less time refilling water dishes with 2 in there. 

oh and um i didnt read enough of the thread to know if this got addressed or not so sorry if it already did but i noticed you said something like you can prevent a burn by placing more substrate over the side with the heat pad under it...and my take on that is no you cant cuz all the snake has to do at that point is move the substrate aside, which they do, mine does, and voila! you've got a burned snake.

ok so yeah, i think i've got a really good set up so that should give you an idea of what you could do but everyone sorta does their own thing. 
whatever works for each of us right?

----------

_Simple Man_ (04-21-2011)

----------


## loonunit

Haha, wearing his hide like a hat. 

Yeah, throw some more clutter in there if he's acting defensive/shy--that's a lot of open space. You can take it out again after he's gotten over it and adjusted, because extra cage furniture does mean more stuff to clean in the long run.

----------


## Skittles1101

> 


 LOL I love how he's wearing his hide! How cute..nice setup  :Smile:

----------


## mommanessy247

my bp is a female...but yeah she likes doin' that. 
eventually i'll have to tell her she's not a snurtle...
but for now i'll just  :ROFL:  every time i see her like that. 
one time i found her curled up inside an upside down hide box that was flipped over inside the water dish on the right side. i wanted to correct it so bad but decided to let her realize on her own that she wasnt hidden. took a couple hours before she finally moved to the warm side.
she's such a hoot, never a dull moment with her.

----------


## LeviBP

That's typical, just give him another seven days to settle in a little better. Make sure you have your husbandry as close to perfect as possible. You want his hot-spot belly heat in between 89-94F, and his ambient temps around 80F. You also want to make sure your humidity stays as close to or above 50%. If you meet all of these requirements, he should be slugging down mice like a champ in a couple weeks.
Chances are, he was a little shaken on your last feeding attempt, and wasn't exactly in the mood to eat. It isn't uncommon for your BP to strike at something and not mean to do any real damage, just using their strikes as a scare tactic. His yawn afterwords was just him resetting his little jaws after having them jumbled around flying through the air a few times at the mouse. Nothing to worry about though!
You can feed around every five days until he gets a little bigger, but try not to feed him at closer intervals than that! Good luck!

----------


## Annarose15

Just to add to everyone's comments about the UTH - I definitely recommend a thermostat, even a cheap one, over a dimmer. As ambient temps change, you have to repeatedly adjust a rheostat (dimmer) for the proper temp output. Dial thermostats take a little while to get right, but then you should be able to leave it year-round. If you do use a dimmer, set it closer to 89deg so you don't risk the hot spot getting too hot as the weather warms up.

I got a piece of plexiglass sheeting cut to size (with my dremel) to cover the screen top before I moved my Balls to tubs. That helped enormously with humidity. I just cut a corner out for where I had the ceramic heater. My house only stays ~68deg in the winter, so I needed that to keep it warm enough during the cold months.

Oh yeah, and the ambient (air) temps need to be between 76-80 degrees. Any lower, and you take the risk of respiratory disease.

Good luck, and keep reading! This site has been invaluable in my learning curve!   :Smile:

----------


## FrankieCarbone

i revamped my setup today, changed the day sun glo 75w bulb, bought a new dome lamp that houses 100w bulbs, and bought a 100w infrared bulb, definetley can tell its alot hotter in there, and the cheap temp strip read between 90-95 as supposed to before that only read 80-82, also bought a dimmer for the UTH. After a few hours i decided to take a look (the tank is in my closet) and FINALLY caught my python come out of his cave! Half his body was out and it looked like he was going towards the water thats on the other side of the tank, but once he saw me i tried to stay still but i guess he realized i was there and he crawled right back into the cave.  But atleast im making progress, guess he is getting more confortable, will wait until next friday before i feed him...

Also ordered the Pro Exotic Infrared themometer PE2, and also a acu-rite digital thermo/humidity, but i they wont arrive until next week...

----------


## Jadonh

It has a probe so all you have to do is set that in the Tank. I do like the ceramic heat emitters in the winter time. I live in Colorado and have pikes peak mountain as my back yard and winter time as well as springs this high up, over 10,000 feet,it gets cold. I still have snow on the ground and it snowed here 2 days ago. make sure when using the ceramic heat emitters that you get the right canister for it, It needs to have a ceramic socket. I have a heat emitter hat I have used for a few years. I will say they are expensive, but they last along time (as long as you don't drop it)

----------


## Homegrownscales

Ches are great if your house gets super cold. Keep in mind that they will zap the humidity right out of the tank though.

----------


## chapskis1

> Yeah I have seen that one and have heard good things. Here's another though just in case:
> http://tempgun.com/
> 
> I'd be completely useless if I didn't have it, I live by my PE-2 seriously.


Yes...I believe you...I think I read that on here about 10 times a day!

----------


## FrankieCarbone

glad i chose the PE2 over the one on home depot, the home depot was -4 accurate while the PE2 is i believe 1.8 accurate, the only reason i considered the home depot one was because i can pick it up right away and not wait, but i decided to get the PE2 it on ebay, and wait

----------


## Gungirl

Ok I read through this fairly fast and Its late so Im sorry if I am repeating or I missed something. :Sleepy:  I read that you said the mouse bit the snake?! Why dont you offer frozen thawed and see if he is less scared and more willing to eat when Its time to feed him again. I dont think I could leave a live mouse in with mine. I have seen far to many pictures of a mouse eating the scales off a non hungry/non defensive snake.

----------


## FrankieCarbone

i know alot of you are opposed to feeding him in another enclosure besides where he is in now, but this is one of those things i really would like to do.  It just feels alot easy to feed him in a cheap box that i can throw away later, rather than have a mouse running around the tank i so nicely set up, and hiding in his hide cave, and running around pissing all over place, and not to mention the poop that comes out when the mouse is squeezed to death. Can those of you who take your python out and place him in another enclosure comment on this? I mean, i know from what i have read that the BEST thing to do is to feed him in his own enclosure, but this is one rule i want to break, how can i accomplish this without stressing the snake out and get him to feed?  hes already feeling very confortable in his cage ever since i got the infrared bulb, and 2 different caves, one with the UTH and one without (cold side) so hes getting comfortable. I just really would like to be able to bring him to a another container, have him strike and eat, finish digesting and bring him back home.  comments anybody? (those who feed outside the cage, and those who feed in there home cage)  Like i said, i'm noticing my python is getting comfortable in his cage, and i plan on another attempt on feeding on tuesday.....

----------


## FrankieCarbone

i havent thought of that, because after the mouse was dead (when i stuck him with a pole on his neck and he bled out) that the snake paid no attention at all to the snake, or try to eat him after he was dead and full of blood, so i doubt hed pay attention to a thawed out mouse... He striked at the mouse only when the mouse was alive.... once it was limp and dead he paid no attention to it...

----------


## FrankieCarbone

okay, so last time i tried to feed him was on tuesday, since then i have left him alone.  Last night he was out and about, and the humidity for some reason has dropped in the cage, its usually at 51 and maybe drops to 47 at the least but for some reason was at 40, well i got my spray bottle and started misting, he of course did not like that very much, but most of the times when i spray in there he just gets a little suprised but thats it, this time he really did not like it, after i sprayed the cage down, i decided to crouch down and just take a look at him since i havent in a long time looked at him up close.  So as iam looking at him, he strikes! i mean he hit the glass, but that came out of nowhere, i was shocked, i then put my fingers up against the glass and he struck again. and like 3 more times before i got up and walked away, then he went into his hiding cave.  I went to sleep, i wake up today hoping it was just a nightmare or sometime, but when i went to his tank, he was out and about again, noticed the humidity was low once again (38 percent, the lowest ever) and i crouched down to take a look at him again before i got the spray bottle, and as soon as my face got close to the tank he struck again!

i dont get it, the first week i got him i was handling him for 10-15 minutes at a time and he was not agressive at all, i went from that, to a snake thats not eating, to a snake thats not eating and striked at me when i just look at him! man, what am i doing wrong now.....

----------


## Homegrownscales

He sounds hungry or stressed or he's just being a defensive baby.  I would avoid crouching down like that so he doesn't keep whacking himself. Baby's are usually defensive, I have a male pin that tries to chew on me everytime I open the tub. Aluminum foil tape on the screen helps keep humidity it. Try feeding again. I believe he's accepted a meal from you already if it's been a few days he might be hungry again. But if he strikes at it even once defensively take it out.  Striking but not actually biting and coiling. Don't stick the mouse in it's face or even be tempted to do so. That will only stress him out more. Make sure you try live.

----------


## FrankieCarbone

i dont know what happened, there were like 8 pages on this subject but i dont know what happened with the web site now its down to 5, so i will recap

no he has not taken a meal from me yet, its been a month now since i got him, and the first feeding attempt he would only strike and not eat, the second attempt was on tuesday, and same thing he would only strike and not eat or coil, should i try again today? its only been 3 days since the last attempt.

what i dont understand, is how i was handling him fine the first week i got him ( you can even see in the pictures i have up) and it went from that to now he strikes at me when he sees my face? it just feels like im making things worse in this situacion, all i have done is exactly what you guys and everybody else has told me to do.  

Oh and both the times i tried to feed him, they were live mice.

----------


## rperry03

I place my boa in a separate container because his current cage does not accommodate him eating in there. Im not worried about the cleaning. Either way you do it there are pros and cons. When he has finishs eating I really never know when he is ready to go back in for sure. I usually wait until he moves, dont want him to still be in feeding mode then reach in, I will usually hook him first to lift then reach in. 

Have you tried knocking out the mouse, leaving it in there and giving your snake privacy? If its glass, block off the bottom so he can't see out if he's on the bottom.

There will always be the live vs f/t debate. But I would never leave live in there unattended.

----------


## MissDizzyBee

When I fed live, I moved my snake to a cardboard box for feeding. It was never a problem, never regurgitated and never went for my hand. Keep in mind, though, that mine has a very mellow personality.

I now feed him f/t in his tank. He will sometimes strike at the prey on tongs, but for the most part won't eat it unless I set it next to his cave and drop a towel over his tank. Some of them just have quirks like that. Once you find them, things are easy.  :Smile: 

Sent from my HTC Vision using Tapatalk

----------


## Cendalla

> When I fed live, I moved my snake to a cardboard box for feeding. It was never a problem, never regurgitated and never went for my hand. Keep in mind, though, that mine has a very mellow personality.


I feed mine F/T in a cardboard box. Never had a prob. He  knows when he's in his box that foods coming and gets really excited. The main thing is patience.

----------


## FrankieCarbone

on the first feeding attempt, it was outside his tank, i placed him him a brown box, and i dropped the mouse in, he stricked at it a couple of times but did not coil, i then hit the mouse with the end of a curtain rod and by mistake actually pierced the skin of the mouse on his neck and actually killing it, blood was everywhere and the mouse was like having a stroke and twitching for about a minute, and after that my BP just did one last defensive strike, but with blood and all smeared everywhere he still did not eat.  The second feeding attempt (tuesday) was inside his tank this time, and same thing, snake did not pay much attention to the mouse until the mouse got close, then he just did a defensive strike, after that i made the mistake (?) of grabbing the mouse by the tail and dangling infront of him, he just did defensive strikes and thats it.  The mouse was in the tank with the snake for about 20 minutes, and my BP paid no attention to it, the mouse even took a nap on the hot side! after that i just took the mouse out, this was on tuesday.

Since last night, and this mornings "strikes" at me, i noticed off behavior, first he is out of his cold side hide and it just hanging out in the middle of the tank (he rarely does that he usually explores then goes back into hiding) and also for the FIRST time he has gone into his hot side hide (which is alot bigger than the cold side hide), this is the one with the UTH underneath.  My digital thermometer says 88 degrees so thats good, but the humidity has drastically gone down, its at a all time low 37% since i bought my acu-rite.  I think that maybe its malfunctioning because since i set it up a week ago it has never gone lower than 47% at the least, but since yesterday its being going down alot, even after i spray the cage.  When i spray the cage it will go up to maybe 40-44, but before when i spray the tank down it will go up 53-55.  Or maybe its just really not humid in there, i know the temp is working fine because i use my PE2 tempgun and the temperatures more or less match what the acu-rite says...

----------


## Homegrownscales

I would recommend not trying to move this one for feeding. While everyone does their own thing. Moving a snake is stressful and unnecessary. Some will get used to it other don't. But for your case op I would not. He's gone through some major changes lately but
Still he is a baby they will be defensive. Still keep him in as little stress as possible. He will. Calm down. I see the feistiness as a good thing. When they have strength they fight. However if your temps had not matched up I would have recommended you rechecking everything to make sure the hot side wasn't too hot.  I think he's doing fine. Remember to keep things simple.

----------


## Homegrownscales

The only thing you may want to do is make sure the hot hide is small enough for him to cram into. Also you can fix the humidity by spraying more at each spraying. Make it wet in there, it will dry out.  If it doesnt your spraying too much. But when I spray I give a good dousing it dries out over the day. You can also put a towel over the screen or plexiglas.

----------


## FrankieCarbone

Homegrownscales,


should i try and feed him again tonight? its only been 3 days since the last attempt, and i was going to wait until next tuesday to try again, but given the changes and his current behavior, do you think i should try and feed him again tonight?

----------


## rperry03

I understand your frustation and not to be a douche but you keep telling the same story over and over. Give your ball some time to relax, your temps and humidity are probably fine; we dont live in a dry area and theirs a lot of rain up a down the east coast. He wont starve himself. I dont recall how big he was other than a baby, go with a fuzzy in a few days to get him started. Then get on a schedule that he likes. 
Make sure water is available. I caught one of my babies drinking this morning but refused a meal. They have been here for a few days now. My Boa got a nice snake of a few hoppers  :Wink:

----------


## FrankieCarbone

rperry03,

not to be a douche to you, but no, im not telling the same story, i never ever had him strike at me, thats the "new" story, his aggression.  Yes he hasent fed the last 2 times i tried, and yes it seems he is stressed, but not once since i got him has he shown any signs of agression until last night, hence me posting again....

And water is available, i have caught him a couple of times drinking water.

----------


## rperry03

ok

Theres a lot of good advice here pick through it. The only advice I can offer is that humdity levels are fine in the northeast today (unless you have something drying out the air) and he needs alone time. 

Heres another question for everyone: do balls prefer to eat at night? My other snakes get pissy when I bother them during the day and won't eat but the balls seem to be curious all the time.

----------


## MissDizzyBee

> Heres another question for everyone: do balls prefer to eat at night? My other snakes get pissy when I bother them during the day and won't eat but the balls seem to be curious all the time.


I feed all three of my snakes in the middle of the day when I get home from work.

Sent from my HTC Vision using Tapatalk

----------


## Homegrownscales

frankie- wait for at least 5 days between feeding. At all times. Refusals, accepts, regurges everything. It depends on the snake for when he will accept food. I just feed at night bc I have some that will only eat at night and other that don't care. It's easier on me. For your situation feed at night when he is most active and comfortable. 8-10pm is a hot time for mine.

----------


## FrankieCarbone

so sunday it is...

i just did some more modifications to my setup, i got black contact paper and blacked out the three walls.  And i figuered out that my digital thermo/hygro is not bad, the screen to my tank when i bought it came chrome in color, while the rest of the trim of the tank is black, well i just so happen to have some trim paint that i previously used on some chrome parts of my car that needed to be black, i took of the screen today to paint it, and i used a cardboard with holes cut into it to cover the tank in the mean time, before i did so i sprayed the tank down, well i went outside to paint the screen top, when i came back half hour later the humidity sky rocketed and its at 72%.  So now i now, yes everybody was telling me that the infrared bulb dries out the tank and what not, but what im going to do it, wait until the screen dries up (probably by tommorow) and i will cover half the screen with a wet black small hand towel.

Today has been a bad day for my BP though, he was not happy when i was bringing out the tank to apply the contact paper, and he definetley got spooked when i took the screen out and put the cardboard one up, because when i did that i was spraying the tank and he was out, when he heard the spray he quickly ran to the side and got in his S position.  Maaannn i really hope your right and he calms down eventually, i remember my old ball python i could put my finger right on his mouth and he would't twitch, i would parade him all over the place and handle him all day and he was so tam, with this BP, seems like a wild caught anaconda, im actually a little scared of him now, i never been bit before.  I PRAY that he will eat on sunday when i try again, and that he calms down. Hopefully by the end of next week i can start handling him again, given he eats, is that too far fetched?

----------


## rperry03



----------


## Quiet Tempest

Are you still using aspen as a substrate? If humidity is an issue, you might consider switching to a more humidity-friendly bedding. I use cypress mulch for my snakes. It holds humidity well and is resistant to mold.

----------


## FrankieCarbone

well right now im using a cardboard with holes in it to cover the tank, while the screen the tank came with dries (It was chrome colored and i painted it black yesterday) the black trim paint i used says it takes 48 hours before it fully hardens so it wont go on until tommorrow.  I will say using that piece of cardboard with holes in it had kept the humidity perfect, after i spray the tank down it goes to about 70 percent and it takes about 9 hours before it goes to 50.

When the screen goes back on im going to try using a medium black towel to cover the half of the screen top, and i will keep it wet, i seen a few people use this trick and has worked well for them.  If that does not work i will use a piece of plexi glass (like rperry03 pics).  Either way i atleast know where to go as far as solving the humidity issue.  I have to work all day tommorow so monday will be the day i attempt the third feeding, crossing my fingers, i think if he eats i will be the happiest person in the world.

----------


## Homegrownscales

The towel will work. Wetting it will up the humidity in the room though not the tank. Give him a couple good sprays through out the day and cover the screen as much as possible.

----------


## FrankieCarbone

if god is good, and he does end up eating when i try to feed him again on monday, do you think that he will be less agressive if i try and handle him a few days after he feeds? i havent really put my face up against the glass or fingers since a couple of days ago when he started showing agression.

----------


## Homegrownscales

He wasn't being aggressive he was being defensive. Since he's a baby and coming off of a huge stress bender. I would have him eat at least 3 consecutive meals. Yes thats 3 weeks! I always give little ones way more time to settle in. They stress so much more easily. Then after the good schedule of meals can you slowly start handling. Something we forget as humans is any reptile though they may tolerate us do not want playtime. There really is no need for it. Babies grow out of being defensive. But you are going to have to be VERY patient. You have all 20 something or more years with him.  There's plenty of time for handling later. Get him eating regularly and try not to meddle too much with him. That tends to make things worse.

----------


## chapskis1

Just a bit of an observation.  Even though you haven't been handling him; it sure seems like you have been doing a lot of messing around with his enclosure.  Ie -- scaring him when you mist, putting cardboard on the top, taking off the cover and painting it, covering the sides.  I would say all of this is definitely stressing him.  

Having his humidity out of whack for a week or two really isn't going to have adverse effects in the long term scheme.  The main thing is that he has a fresh bowl of water (and if the bowl is big enough you should only have to fill that once a week), and that the temps are acceptable.  I would just chill out with all of the rest of the stuff until he gets a meal or two in.  All of this other activity is just as stressful as handling him.

I know it's tough, but just take a deep breath and calm down.  Try to do absolutely nothing but monitor temps for a week and then see if he eats.

And BTW -- he isn't scared by the sound of the spay bottle -- since he can't hear.  He probably doensn't like the water being sprayed on/by him, and it is probably cold to him.

Good luck!

----------


## Homegrownscales

Those are great points. As I said sometimes meddling is even worse. Give him some time Frankie, low stress, don't do some things just to see how he'll react. Like dangling the mouse or pressing your hands up to the glass. Water should be nice and hot when you put it into the spray bottle. It will come out of the sprayer as a nice warm mist.

----------


## FrankieCarbone

its been 6 days since last feeding attempt, and i was going to try again today, but given all thats been going on and moving the tank around and doing modifications and what not, im wondering if i should give him more time? Right now, since yesterday, hes just been keeping half his head outside of his cold side hide.  Temps and humidity been fine.  What should i do, should i try again or give him more time?

----------


## Quiet Tempest

If it were me, I'd give him a full week of no handling, no cleaning and no messing with the enclosure. Provide fresh water, of course but otherwise leave him alone and let him get comfortable in his new home.

----------


## FrankieCarbone

i can do that, except i mean, is it not a interruption when i spray down the tank three times a day? also to keep water in the bowl i still have to take the screen out, and pour the water in the bowl, and when i do either of these things he runs back in his hide, so i mean, unless i dont spray the tank down to keep the humidity at atleast 50% and refill his bowl every 3-4 days, there is no way i can go a week without some sort of interruption...?

----------


## Homegrownscales

You can do it when he is already in his hide. Or be extremely quiet about it. I only have to do my bowls 1x a week. Spraying can be done through the top or slide it just a bit to the side.

----------


## FrankieCarbone

i know i should have waited a little longer, but tried again last night.  Bought the mouse around 5pm and set him aside and waited until my BP came out of hiding, which was at around 8-9 o clock, dropped the mouse in, at first my BP did show some interest, but after a while just stood there.  Eventually the mouse found his way to the top of his cold side hide, and just stood there perfectly still, eventually he found his way to my BP where he would stare at him flick his tongue once and in a while but did nothing.  Well i wait about 20 minutes, until finally the mouse got to close to my BP's nose and he threw a DEFENSIVE strike, thats when i know it was over.  So i took the mouse out and called it a day.  Difference between this one and the last 2 attemps that i noticed was, he wasent freaked out.  Before after the defensives strikes and what not, and i would take the mouse out he would go crazy and jet into his hide, this time after the defensive strike, i took the mouse out and he just kept like hanging out, very calmly.

Uhhh, dammit i was really hoping to get him to eat, but i guess i will try again next tuesday.

Obviously im not going to cry and whine and post every week on how he did;t take the mouse, so what i want to know is, when is it time to consider assist feed?  Im going to buy a digital kitchen scale and monitor his weight, but is it even possible that the snake will refuse to eat and starve himself to death?!

----------


## FrankieCarbone

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS BABY!!!! he ate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i'am the RULER OF THE WORLLLDDD!!!!!!!

so happy, he fed!!! 

ok im going to admit i cheated a little bit, (it was a ASF fuzzy not weaned yet) but i thru him in there, half hour later (BP was in the cold hide) i moved the fuzzy to the entrance, got a defensive strike then another strike and coil!!!!!! he just finished swallowing the fuzzy, im SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO happy!!! what a relief!!!!

I got a guy that has ASF's all day, if thats what i have to feed him then i dont care the extra money, its worth it for the peace of mind that he is eating!!!!  Just put some pictures up on my gallery of the greatest moment in HISTORY! haha im just real happy...

----------


## MissDizzyBee

:Dancin' Banana:  :Dancin' Banana:  :Dancin' Banana:  :Dancin' Banana: 

Im so happy for you guys!

----------


## FrankieCarbone

i havent been this happy for a longggggg time!!!! THIS is the reason why i decided to buy another pet/BP after so many years, YESSSSSS!!! IM AM THE MAN!!!!

man i was sleepy, its 1:16am i was getting ready to knock out and go to sleep, i have to work tommorrow, im so damn happy i cant fall asleep now! Hes roaming around like he wants more too, better believe next friday i will buying another ASF, maybe after a couple of feedings with ASF i will try and switch him to regular petland mice, but if not, i dont care spending the extra cash ill breed ASF if i have to!  Im just happy to have a happy, eating BP!

Thank you all for your advice, and yes patience was the key, i never gave up.....

----------


## Homegrownscales

Congratulations!!! That's what up!

----------


## FrankieCarbone

yes now, let see if next week hell take a regular mice, if not, i have no problem getting more ASF's, even if i have to travel farther and spend more money, its worth it, and im just glad hes eating.

Hes been in his hot side hide all day, the one with the UTH, digesting his lovely meal from yesterday, i got the UTH via dimmer at about 92 degrees says my PE2.

Im gonna feed him atleast 2 more times before i start to handle him again, i hope that "defensive" attitude hes has with me lately will be gone by then....

----------


## johnsonkid

i havent been this happy for a longggggg time!!!! THIS is the reason why i decided to buy another pet/BP after so many years, YESSSSSS!!! IM AM THE MAN!!!!
Outlook 2010
Microsoft Office Professional 2007
Microsoft Access 2010

----------


## python_addict

does everyone feed their snake in another enclosure? i feed all of my adults in their own enclosures except the babies but have no problem with aggressiveness nor picky eating from stress

----------


## Homegrownscales

I don't feed any one of mine in separate enclosures. And I actually don't recommend it to anyone buying a baby from me or anyone asking  advice.

----------


## Yvonne Marie

Well I am glad that your snake ate, but I am thinking that the reason your snake didn't show any interest before is because the food you gave them was too big. Sometimes snakes are pickey like that. Mine is an aggressive eater either way, but what I would recommend, as would most snake owners, is once they get bigger around (say inch and 3/4) I would switch them to frozen thawed. You may have to wiggle it a little in front of their faces after you warm them up under running hot water, but otherwise its usually the same feeding reaction for me between live and frozen. Also if that doesn't work you can try pre-killed. I personally havent dealt with that so I am not sure about it, but from what I understand some small family owned pet stores do pre-killed for their customers. 

As for the environment, I think a UTH is just fine since bp's need the heat under their bellies to help them with their digestion. I also found a great deal for a lazer thermometer for $30 (with a coupon at a local hardware store) Which works absolute WONDERS!!! They are a great investment and you should totally have one. as for the bedding, I got rid of all of the bedding and just use newspaper as it makes it easier to clean and if I decide to be lazy and feed my bp in her enclosure I don't have to worry about her ingesting any of the substrait. Thats one of the BIG concerns for me ever feeding in the tank with substrait.

----------


## Foschi Exotic Serpents

I agree with Yvonne.. Try offering him a mouse crawler/hopper next time. One that is absolutely no bigger around than your snake is. An adult mouse, or even a weaned juvie mouse is probably a bit too overwhelming for your new baby right now. 

From the description you gave of how it fed, I have a feeling that it would be fairly simple to switch this snake to frozen thawed rodents that you just leave directly in front of the hide at night. I wouldn't attempt this until it has eaten at least a few more meals consistently for you but it would save you a lot if hassle in the long run.

----------


## JungleCarpet81

> Aarhhh! You're SO funny! I was laughing just picturing the snake jumping and taking off! You sure have got talent for writing!
> 
> BTW, if you have trouble keeping your enclosure warm enough, you could find something to close up the top of your aquarium. A scren top will let all the heat AND humidity escape as quick as you generate it. 
> When shedding time comes,you'll appreciate to be able to keep a higher level of humidity without too much trouble. 
> 
> Personally, I have a piece of Coroplast onto my screen top, with 2 shutter like flaps at one end, so I can regulate the humidity level, but anything sightier would do even better, like a piece of plastic film cut to size. 
> 
> 
> If that blue light is set on top of your screen, you might have to cut a hole in the plastic sheet and keep a 1in gap between the edge of the plastic film and the hot lamp. Or, if you close almost all your top screen, just leaving maybe 5% open for ventilation, you might find out that your UTH provides enough heat to maintain a proper T° level. And you wouldn't need to worry about the light stressing out your snake either. That's the option I'd try, personally.


You dont have to use anything to cover the top of the tank with to keep heat inside. if you get a  bottle or anything else plastic (or  one of those rat/mice igloos) and put some spagnum (sp) moss in it  and spray it on occasion it will be nice and humid in there for the snake when its shedding time.

----------


## Jenny_93

And I have also read that If tHey eat dead mice it's also Hard to get there appetite to change to live mice so u might have checked if they fed it live or dead I'd advise feeding a real small Snake dead ones I have actually heard of the rats eating. The Snakes to :Tears:

----------

