# Site General > General Herp > Herp Broadcast >  15 snakes and 1 cat seized from home

## Bluebonnet Herp

http://www.chron.com/houston/article...on-5562366.php




> Over a dozen snakes and at least one cat were taken from a home in the Heights this afternoon after a cruelty report was filed and a search was made of the residence.
> 
> Meera Nandlal with the Houston SPCA says that her department and the Harris County Precinct 1 Constable's Office worked together, with assistance from the Houston Zoo, to rescue 15 snakes and one cat from the home. Nandlal said that some of the snakes are very large and said to be underweight.
> 
> "They were in poor environmental conditions," said Nandlal. "The snakes have been taken to an undisclosed location and will be cared for by the Houston SPCA."
> 
> An anonymous complaint had been made on the home, located in the 700 block of W. 21st in the Heights, a month or so ago.
> 
> "We gave the woman at the home a few chances to rectify the situation," said Harris County Precinct 1 Constable's Office spokesman J.C. Mosier. "We gave her some time to make changes, and for a time she had cleaned them up and was being cooperative, but when we returned today the snakes didn't appear to be in good health."
> ...


Something seems sort of fishy here...



> To the naked eye, said _Mosier_, they look to be in good health but according to zoo staff they were in fact not.





> "*They weren't able to stretch out the way they should and that's dangerous for them,*" said _Mosier_.





> "To charge with anything it has to be proven that she was doing something specifically to injure the animals," said _Mosier_. "Keeping them in this _cruel confinement_ [ARAs love these words] probably won't help her case."





> Mosier said that the female cat that was found at the house seemed to be in *good health* considering the circumstances it had been living in.
> 
> "*She's lucky that she didn't become dinner for one of the snakes,*" Mosier said. She's said be going up for adoption soon, he said.


Then again, I may be wrong. We have no actual details as to how exactly were the animals contained or kept or what their condition is/was. Until then, I'm just a skeptical conspiracy theorist.
I'm also interested as to what implications this can have for Texas, if any. We'll see if this story grabs any attention or if more details are made available...

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_decensored_ (06-18-2014),sho220 (06-18-2014),_sorraia_ (06-19-2014),Zombree (06-21-2014)

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## Bluebonnet Herp

Oh look, another article! With a video: http://www.khou.com/news/local/Autho...263696751.html

My skepticism grows...

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## sho220

Is it just me, or did they all look fine? The BP looked a little thin, but it's probably on a fast. I like the way they spiced up the story by calling them "dangerous" and "venomous"... :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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_Bluebonnet Herp_ (06-18-2014)

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## Pythonfriend

the video is ridiculous. the part about "venomous snakes" is made up. and they did make the snakes appear dangerous, mentioning children and so on.

i didnt see malnourished snakes, venomous snakes, or stuck shed. one thing they mentioned is that one of the snakes has something like a spine kink, but who knows what that is about.

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_Bluebonnet Herp_ (06-18-2014),Vulgar (06-21-2014)

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## jackal_727

Absolutely ridiculous. Every snake I saw was in fine condition. This is just political overreach at work. If 15 snakes is a big news story, they'd have the story of the year coming in my house. What a bunch of jerks.

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_Bluebonnet Herp_ (06-18-2014),Vulgar (06-21-2014)

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## Bluebonnet Herp

> Absolutely ridiculous. Every snake I saw was in fine condition. This is just political overreach at work. If 15 snakes is a big news story, they'd have the story of the year coming in my house. What a bunch of jerks.


This is probably the worst nightmare of any reptile keeper.  :Rage:

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## wilomn

> If 15 snakes is a big news story, they'd have the story of the year coming in my house. What a bunch of jerks.


THIS is the type of statement that gets people's attention. Often the wrong, for us, kind of attention.

Were I you, or anyone else reading this, think twice before making such statements. Anyone and everyone can read anything you write anywhere on the net. It never goes away.

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_Aes_Sidhe_ (06-21-2014),_Bluebonnet Herp_ (06-18-2014),_coldblooded_ (06-18-2014),_sorraia_ (06-19-2014)

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## Bluebonnet Herp

This news story is still developing, it seems. Even then, I'm getting contradicting reports. One police officer says that they were free-ranging, yet in another article, they were kept in homemade enclosure.

I know, let's play a game of spot the liar!

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## Bluebonnet Herp

I wonder if she had the permit required here in Texas required to own those snakes. Seeing how she's not facing charges or the fact they didn't mention it, she probably did.
This is quite the confusing story, isn't it?

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## Aryia

Are snakes even covered under animal protection? As far as I know you seem to be able to kill a snake as long as it's not endangered, I don't even see how animal cruelty would apply here. And how is SPCA going to take care of the snakes? From what I can see they only deal with mammals (from rodents to farm animals) and pet birds. Nowhere do I even see a single reptile or animal that would require special heating requirements. It just feels like they wouldn't be prepared in equipment or knowledge to take on 15 snakes all of the sudden. 

Unless my BPs are really really weird, they seem to like being coiled up instead of stretched out O.o? And I'm sure there's underweight snakes at almost any facility considering BPs go on food strikes every now and then. 

Why would the cat become dinner anyway? Was there a burmese running around loose in the house or something?

Lastly I'm kind of curious who this "Mosier" person is. All I can find is that he is part of law enforcement and not a reptile expert. Who is he to say what "cruel confinement" and "dangerous conditions" for snakes are?

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## Bluebonnet Herp

> Are snakes even covered under animal protection? As far as I know you seem to be able to kill a snake as long as it's not endangered, I don't even see how animal cruelty would apply here. And how is SPCA going to take care of the snakes? From what I can see they only deal with mammals (from rodents to farm animals) and pet birds. Nowhere do I even see a single reptile or animal that would require special heating requirements. It just feels like they wouldn't be prepared in equipment or knowledge to take on 15 snakes all of the sudden. 
> 
> Unless my BPs are really really weird, they seem to like being coiled up instead of stretched out O.o? And I'm sure there's underweight snakes at almost any facility considering BPs go on food strikes every now and then. 
> 
> Why would the cat become dinner anyway? Was there a burmese running around loose in the house or something?
> 
> Lastly I'm kind of curious who this "Mosier" person is. All I can find is that he is part of law enforcement and not a reptile expert. Who is he to say what "cruel confinement" and "dangerous conditions" for snakes are?


I'm more and more bamboozled as this story continues to develop. I'm starting to think this may have been a somewhat bad situation, but the SPCA/Animal rights people are going to wave their victory flag and make this story seem much worst than it really is. Meanwhile, the snakes may be euthanized for all we know.

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## bcr229

To someone who isn't familiar with snakes, a boa constrictor that is square shaped and not round like a king snake or ball python may look undernourished.  They are supposed to be thin.

The 18-20 footer is probably a retic - if in fact the snake is really that long, most people over-estimate.  Most are fed whole adult rabbits or chickens, but typically f/t or fresh killed, not live.

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_Bluebonnet Herp_ (06-18-2014)

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## Bluebonnet Herp

This may end up being one of those "rescue stories" that HSUS and ASPCA are so notable for, making a somewhat bad situation look much worst before throwing their own message in there and declaring themselves victorious.

One thing's for sure; I hope this doesn't have any bad implications for the laws and herpers of Texas.

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## sho220

> This news story is still developing, it seems. Even then, I'm getting contradicting reports. One police officer says that they were free-ranging, yet in another article, they were kept in homemade enclosure.
> 
> I know, let's play a game of spot the liar!


News media process - Report first, check facts later...

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_alan12013_ (06-18-2014),*bcr229* (06-18-2014),_Bluebonnet Herp_ (06-18-2014),DooLittle (06-18-2014),_sorraia_ (06-19-2014),wescoast (06-21-2014)

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## jackal_727

> THIS is the type of statement that gets people's attention. Often the wrong, for us, kind of attention.
> 
> Were I you, or anyone else reading this, think twice before making such statements. Anyone and everyone can read anything you write anywhere on the net. It never goes away.


I realize that and I don't see an issue. I made a statement in regards to the number of reptiles I keep. How is that any different than every member on here with a signature containing a list a mile long of all their snakes and other herps that they keep?

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## SaintTawny

> News media process - Report first, check facts later...


....never bother with the facts.

FTFY

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sho220 (06-18-2014)

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## sho220

> ....never bother with the facts.
> 
> FTFY


yeah...that's probably more accurate...

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## Aryia

> I'm more and more bamboozled as this story continues to develop. I'm starting to think this may have been a somewhat bad situation, but the SPCA/Animal rights people are going to wave their victory flag and make this story seem much worst than it really is. Meanwhile, the snakes may be euthanized for all we know.


I love how they are allowed to euthanize an animal on a whim if it has bitten someone. Honestly speaking I feel like ball python bites are completely avoidable if you use the right precaution and equipment, yet ultimately the animal will pay for it. I have suspicions that they are going to use the fact the little BP bit an official to put down all the snakes. I find animal "rights" ironic. They do not give an animal rights to live, but only the rights to live in a minimally acceptable condition. 

Though I still hope nothing will happen to the snakes, after all, they are the most innocent and can't even speak up for themselves in this ordeal.

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_AlexisFitzy_ (06-18-2014),_Bluebonnet Herp_ (06-18-2014)

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## Bluebonnet Herp

> I love how they are allowed to euthanize an animal on a whim if it has bitten someone. Honestly speaking I feel like ball python bites are completely avoidable if you use the right precaution and equipment, yet ultimately the animal will pay for it. I have suspicions that they are going to use the fact the little BP bit an official to put down all the snakes. I find animal "rights" ironic. They do not give an animal rights to live, but only the rights to live in a minimally acceptable condition. 
> 
> Though I still hope nothing will happen to the snakes, after all, they are the most innocent and can't even speak up for themselves in this ordeal.


Why anyone would even euthanize any of their pets for biting is beyond me. If it were necessary then all my pets - cats, dog, and snakes - would have to be put down. Every animal we have has sunk it's teeth into me, although I attribute is as my fault 99% of the time.

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## Pythonfriend

some assumptions, just a working theory...  we will see if this will really be contradicted as the story develops.

i think there were no venomous snakes. i think they were kept in enclosures, not roaming free. i didnt see any sick snakes, what ive seen looked rather healthy, not too thin, and no stuck shed. my assumption is that the enclosures were on the small end of the spectrum and maybe also not as clean as they should be. 

basically my assumption is that it went something like this: law enforcement gets this anonymous tip, people go in, and say "yeah, well, this needs to be cleaner, that enclosure needs to be bigger", based on whatever reptile knowledge they have, basically a warning shot, with the threat that otherwise they might take the animals. and the women tried to cooperate, but didnt really get it done, they all say she was cooperating, but somehow there was no agreement so after a month of back and forth, they moved in and took the snakes. and the media got wind of that, and on a quiet news day its interesting enough when they drag 15 snakes out of a building.


all of this could be wrong, but thats basically whats left of the story when i subtract everything that triggers my horsecrap detector. 1st story says many people handled the snakes, but only one officer got bit, and only from one of the smallest snakes, and this seemed to be good news, as in, easier than expected. and that the snakes were in poor health condition. and then the 2nd story tells us about dangerous venomous snakes, and shows a bunch of non-venomous snakes that appear to be healthy. and what has been said about the health condition is that they were malnourished, which i didnt see, and both stories mentioned the fact that its really bad for the big snakes when they cannot fully stretch out in their enclosure. yeah right. 2nd story mentioned that one of the snake had a spine kink / spine injury. that could be anything, a birth defect or an old injury, who knows. and with the spine injury thing i wonder how they figured out that the snake needs assistance with the bowel movements, unless they got that from the owner. again im speculating, but it seems like the owner cooperated to the point of sharing information about the snakes, including the special needs of the snake with the spine issue.

and i didnt mention some other stuff the media mentioned because its just too far out there. 


whats left of the story when you try to seperate the plausible from the implausible and the outlandish and the flat-out lies just isnt much. im not convinced any snakes got hurt, except that now the people that have these 15 random snakes might be even more overwhelmed than the women they took them from. some rescues have policies and will euthanize everything and anything that could not get rehomed within a certain time period, other rescues dont have such deadlines but they have limited capabilities and will euthanize to reduce the burden if its getting too much. 


so there is something people in the Houston Texas area can do. this may sound cruel, thats not intended, but there seem to be some 15 nice snakes up for grabs in the Houston Texas area, including BP, boa constrictor, and retic or burm. how nice of the media to tell us that they were moved to a SECRET LOCATION. yeah, 15 snakes now need new homes, potentially they need new homes really soon because they are on a deadline. and the media, just in case a snake keeper with a big heart reads the story, tells us that they are now at a *secret location*. i mean, if they would not keep that secret, there might be people calling, asking if they can take care of some of the snakes ! 

(irony) can you imagine how terrible that is for a reptile sanctuary, when strangers call them and write emails and want to take care of the reptiles? obviously the media had to intervene and prevent that by reporting that the snakes were moved to a secret location (/irony)

and to be honest, thats the only aspect of the story i really care about. what will happen to the snakes, and if people want them, where do they call?  is there a guy in Austin who could take care of it, get pictures of the snakes and share them online, and do stuff like maybe organizing shipping for some of them, just in case people from elsewhere also want to help? maybe funnel the snakes into a benefit auction for a herp society or something like that?  worst case scenario: the snakes are currently in the hands of people who typically deal with dogs and cats and are now overwhelmed, combined with a deadly deadline. the 2nd story mentioned that the snakes were transported in kennels for dogs and cats, and that they had to hack together custom transport boxes for the biggest ones. that does not sound good. that sounds like some people need some help from some reptile experts that are connected in the community. 

so thats how i would like the story to end: responsible owners track down the snakes, get the whole issue under the control of snake keepers and reptile experts, and when that is done we will also find out what really went down.

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Vulgar (06-21-2014)

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## decensored

Very little people know about snakes, husbandry, feeding, health problems, etc.  I don't pay attention to this kind of thing, it just gets me upset - and there's nothing I can do.

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## Bluebonnet Herp

More stories as this is getting popular. Probably gaining more attention than the ball python in the couch. http://www.click2houston.com/news/hu...-home/26553928




> I don't pay attention to this kind of thing, it just gets me upset - and there's nothing I can do.


This hobby really needs damage control when crap goes down. It's these kinds of situations that new, baseless laws are formed that target the industry and threaten our rights to our pets.

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## decensored

> More stories as this is getting popular. Probably gaining more attention than the ball python in the couch. http://www.click2houston.com/news/hu...-home/26553928
> 
> 
> This hobby really needs damage control when crap goes down. It's these kinds of situations that new, baseless laws are formed that target the industry and threaten our rights to our pets.


Fair enough.  When that Indian Rock Python killed those two kids in New Brunswick, I was assisting with the petitioning and opposition to the review of Ontario legislation in regards to making ALL "exotic," pets to need permits and licensing.  It was a huge issue in the province and within 2 weeks everyone forgot about it, including the politicians.  I can't speak for America, Although I have donated to USARK on behalf of ball-pythons.net, when you guys were fighting the last big fight.  I just don't pay attention to any of this crap anymore, because most people are wilfully ignorant.  

When we were dealing with the New Brunswick thing people thought I was the bad guy because I had Boas.  I tried to explain to them the difference between Rock Pythons and BCIs and all I got was, "well, snakes shouldn't be pets - it's cruel and they kill people."  I have a hard time convincing people that ball pythons won't kill them...

It's hard to combat wilful ignorance, and despite my attempts to educate people, they just ignore everything I have to say.

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_Bluebonnet Herp_ (06-19-2014),Pythonfriend (06-19-2014),_sorraia_ (06-19-2014),Vulgar (06-21-2014)

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## Bluebonnet Herp

> The police said all of the species found are potentially dangerous.
> 
> "Under the right circumstances any of them would be dangerous, especially these large ones. I believe they would be capable of killing a person,"


I need to find me an author to hit.

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_decensored_ (06-19-2014)

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## Aryia

> http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/we...263847861.html[/B];2259875]
> 
>  				The police said all of the species found are potentially dangerous.
> 
> "Under the right circumstances any of them would be dangerous,  especially these large ones. I believe they would be capable of killing a  person,"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


But it's true! Given the right circumstances *anything* can kill you. I guess you could choke to death if you tried to swallow a baby bird or catch the bird flu from it even though it's virtually non-existent in the States. I was barred from bringing 1 lb dumbbells onto an international flight, cause the security personal thought i would smash someone to death with them. Yes I actually asked, and then when I asked her if she would take my giant textbook that's at least 5-7 times as heavy away too her supervisor ordered her to let me through with all my stuff since I guess he saw how stupid the conversation was. But yes, a ball python can kill you. I guess if you are really high on drugs or dead drunk, there might be a one in a million chance your BP wants to smell all that disgusting crap and wrap itself around your neck and constrict you while you're cold out. To me it sounds like a deed that would belong into the Darwin's Awards, I wish people that heard BS like that would see how ridiculous it is instead of fearing snakes even more.

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_Bluebonnet Herp_ (06-21-2014),Vulgar (06-21-2014),wescoast (06-21-2014)

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## Vulgar

Ugh, I just went on a binge, reading all sorts of articles about this and the comments as well. Now I'm all riled up.

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_Bluebonnet Herp_ (06-21-2014),_decensored_ (06-21-2014)

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## Pythonfriend

> But it's true! Given the right circumstances *anything* can kill you. I guess you could choke to death if you tried to swallow a baby bird or catch the bird flu from it even though it's virtually non-existent in the States. I was barred from bringing 1 lb dumbbells onto an international flight, cause the security personal thought i would smash someone to death with them. Yes I actually asked, and then when I asked her if she would take my giant textbook that's at least 5-7 times as heavy away too her supervisor ordered her to let me through with all my stuff since I guess he saw how stupid the conversation was. But yes, a ball python can kill you. I guess if you are really high on drugs or dead drunk, there might be a one in a million chance your BP wants to smell all that disgusting crap and wrap itself around your neck and constrict you while you're cold out. To me it sounds like a deed that would belong into the Darwin's Awards, I wish people that heard BS like that would see how ridiculous it is instead of fearing snakes even more.


true, BPs can kill you. like, when an adult BP dies, and you freeze it and then throw it from the empire state building, that could be quite deadly. or when a BP bites you and decide to go play in dirt with the open wounds, you might get tetanus. 

bounds of reason. most kitchen utensils can be quite deadly. water can be deadly. and when someone is totally unconscious from drugs, a bunch of chickens or rats can be deadly.

the question is: under what circumstances does it make sense to point out that it can be deadly? when a person is for whatever reason completely defenseless, i think a BP would be much less of a problem than a bunch of hungry chickens. a BP would most likely ignore it, or go for the body heat, while chickens would really see that person as food and go for it once they overcome their fear. 

but when there is a story about chickens, (or cats or horses or rats or whatever) they never point out that they would be capable of killing a person under the right circumstances.

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## wescoast

Omg I see dumb people
Swear when the news runs outta storys they can dramatize anything. I like how its a herp fan with like ..... one cat not 15 dogs or too many birds.  Maybe they should add crazy snake guy to the Simpson's and he will be chill level headed kinda smart and nerdy.  Wtf america wtf

I would still throw snakes at people tho haha

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## decensored

> *Omg I see dumb people*
> Swear when the news runs outta storys they can dramatize anything. I like how its a herp fan with like ..... one cat not 15 dogs or too many birds.  Maybe they should add crazy snake guy to the Simpson's and he will be chill level headed kinda smart and nerdy.  Wtf america wtf
> 
> _I would still throw snakes at people tho haha_


 :Confused:  I understood very little of that...  however I was able to figure out the italic part in the quote, and I just have to say;

people who throw snakes at anyone in my presence, especially at people who are afraid of them - end up losing teeth.

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## Zombree

Wow. What an invasion of privacy. I can't believe they subjected that woman and her family (animals) to that BS. And did the guy really have to say "will be going up for adoption soon"? What kind of stab is that? Seriously, that should not be allowed to happen.

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_Bluebonnet Herp_ (06-21-2014)

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## Bluebonnet Herp

> Wow. What an invasion of privacy. I can't believe they subjected that woman and her family (animals) to that BS. And did the guy really have to say "will be going up for adoption soon"? What kind of stab is that? Seriously, that should not be allowed to happen.


I would be mad as hell if all my animals were seized because some dingus _thought_ some were being kept incorrectly and then offered them up for adoption. I'd go and take them back myself.

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Vulgar (06-21-2014),Zombree (06-21-2014)

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## Zombree

> I would be mad as hell if all my animals were seized because some dingus _thought_ some were being kept incorrectly and then offered them up for adoption. I'd go and take them back myself.


Agreed. I am bit upset over this as well. The saddest part is I am sure this crap happens all the time, just the media doesn't cover it. Abuse of power.

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_Bluebonnet Herp_ (06-21-2014)

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## Aryia

> Wow. What an invasion of privacy. I can't believe they subjected that woman and her family (animals) to that BS. And did the guy really have to say "will be going up for adoption soon"? What kind of stab is that? Seriously, that should not be allowed to happen.


There was a story of how a mayor had his home invaded for a "drug bust" because drugs were being sent to his house by dealers and the boxes were to be "picked up" again. Either way they entered without a warrant, shot and killed their two dogs, and held the family at gunpoint (if I remember correctly in pajamas). Oh did I mention? They shot one of the poor dogs as it was running away. That's real life-threatening. Lots of :cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r: happens. I used to believe in the police and how they will help you. After actually reading some of these stories, I realize that police are just normal human beings, some of them with horrible cases of god complex mixed with weapons on-hand. Just a couple years ago they had a huge unnecessary and dangerous use of pepper spray incident at my university :/

Just as reference
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berwyn_...ence_drug_raid

I think the problem is that there's really no "main all-knowing, 100% time all right thing" that governs what's right or wrong. So things just go whichever way the general population is educated as, and in this case the general population knows nothing about reptiles.

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## Charlottesmom1966

I smell a nosey neighbor with a hatrid of snakes... :Snake:

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## KMG

The SPCA here is pretty good and have a lot to deal with in the city. From what I have seen taking peoples herps is not a concern of theirs. 

Looking at the pics and seeing the outside area of the house in question I do not imagine the inside is much better. Search Google maps and use the street view. Look at 709 W 21st Houston Texas . The house in question is the pink one with a large pile of trash at the street. In that pile it appears some make shift cages are in the trash. They do not appear to be anything I would put an animal in.

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## KMG

As I read through this thread again all I could think is how nobody here has any actual facts about this case. Many are jumping to conclusions without waiting for the entire incident to play out. 

Being an active investigation facts are naturally withheld from the media. However even when the media is given the entire story they very often put their dramatic spin on it to get higher ratings. 

Snakes are survivors. How many snakes live through horrible conditions only to be sold on craigslist? We have all seen it. Sure it may appear normal weight but that doesn't mean it has been living well. Living and living well is two different things. My snakes live well.

I also don't understand how some of yall are caught up on large snakes being kept in cages that are two small. That is very possible. What's the smallest dimensions a 15 foot snake should be kept in? How safe is feeding a large snake a live rabbit when the snake can hardly move in the cage. I could see how that situation alone would create an issue I would not feel comfortable with. Ever been bit by a rabbit? Just think of what a mouse can do to a snake.

While I do not trust the media at all I still have faith that the SPCA is doing its best. In my line of work I  have reported people to the SPCA. They can not just come and take animals and it is not a quick process. Would any of yall rather these animals be left in a bad situation? The article is not calling for laws to be made or changed and only saying these snakes should be treated right just like any other pet. I see this more of a win as snakes are being recognized as regular pets and not demons.

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_Bluebonnet Herp_ (06-25-2014)

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