# Ball Pythons > BP Breeding >  Who's Making Money Breeding Ball Pythons?

## Slim

This poll was suggested during discussion in another thread.  So, who out there is making money, losing money, or breaking even?

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## Lair of Dragons

Hmmm...good question....
Last year I kept track of every dime for the year....Rats and Mice, supplies, show fees and expenses, racks, ads, you name it I logged it. Every snake I bought and sold and produced...
I hatched out 70 Ball Pythons and 29 Red Tails...kept 14 babies out of what I produced...higher end stuff...2.4 Dbl het Albino/Pieds 2.2 Dbl het Axa/Pieds, Spider Het Pied, Pastave female, Het Albino female and a Lemon Blast male.
Spent $17,150.00 buying snakes and had $5,400.00 of babies from 2011 that I sold in 2012 and by the time I closed the books for 2011 I had lost $11,254.00. Now if I would have sold what I kept I would have came out ahead but what fun is that.
Travis
Lair of Dragons

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## Adam Chandler

Colin Weaver wrote an interesting artical on the subject of trying to turn a profit BP breeding

http://ballpythonbreeder.com/2011/03...on-investment/

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Lair of Dragons (05-03-2012),luizillo (06-14-2012),_MrLang_ (05-03-2012),_Slim_ (05-02-2012)

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## Slim

> Now if I would have sold what I kept I would have came out ahead but what fun is that.


Travis, yours is an excellent example of a net loss that I would consider a sum total gain!

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_Valentine Pirate_ (05-03-2012)

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## Mike41793

Mike Wilbanks had a video on the "ball python game" pretty recently. The gist of it was basically you cant go wrong investing in balls lol! I havent bred yet, plan to this fall though. I dont ever see myself breeding for profit really. My ultimate goal is just to profuce high quality animals that i love and that hopefully customers love too.  I'll probably hold back as many as i can my 1st few years anyways. Most holdbacks will be the best snakes i produce. So ya, eventually if i can make a little extra cash doing it then ya thatd be awesome. Even if i can make enough just to cover food/bedding/other costs id be happy  :Smile: 
I'll see if i can get a link to mikes video, hang tight everbody...

EDIT: heres where i saw the video from: 
http://thereptilereport.com/mike-wil...the-ball-game/

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ZBP (05-03-2012)

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## MasonC2K

This my first year breeding. Whether I break even or get a profit will depend on the odds of what hatches. We'll just have to wait and see.

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## KatStoverReptiles

I don't care if I never make a dime of profit from my snakes. Sure...it'd be nice if my hobby paid for itself, but it's just that: a hobby. People have all sorts of hobbies...for my dad it was his Corvette...and I promise you that never MADE him any money. This is my hobby.  :Smile:

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DakotaB (05-06-2012),DeathMetalMax (05-07-2012),_Slim_ (05-03-2012)

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## spitzu

We just started so we aren't expecting to come out ahead for at least another year or two.  We'll be lucky/happy if our handful of clutches can pay for this year's expenses.

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## Lair of Dragons

> We just started so we aren't expecting to come out ahead for at least another year or two.  We'll be lucky/happy if our handful of clutches can pay for this year's expenses.


I found that very hard to do....I keep buying BP's and started out with spending no more than $400.00 for a snake the first year...then the next year it went up to $700.00 and this year I have bought some to where its up to $2000.00. Only been back in BPs for three breeding seasons. Collection went from 5 first year and 1 clutch...second year had 30 something BPs and 15 clutches and the count now is 67 in year three years and if I hit 100% female production it would be 28 clutches. I am averaging spending about $1500.00 a month adding more morphs this year so far and I dont have a single egg out yet...got to love it and my wife understands the addiction....thank God.
Travis
Lair of Dragons

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_Jason Bowden_ (05-11-2012)

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## Kinra

I can't answer yet as I just started breeding.  I plan to start tracking expense, but I know that so far I am way behind.  I haven't made a single penny yet, but hope to change that soon.  I finally have eggs, 2 from one of my cresties and some one the way from my ball pythons.  With any luck in a few years, my hobby will at least pay for itself.   :Very Happy:

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## Robyn@SYR

Ahhh, the trap of breeding success...

I can produce X number of mutation Q, sell those for $XXX each, cover my costs and pocket $1600. 

Oh wait, you know what, I better keep this one, and this one, hold back this one for breeding in two years, hold back these to trade for those over there. And this pied here, nicest one I have ever seen, better hang on to that one as well.

Ah crap, now I am $700 in the hole.

 :Very Happy:

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## Valentine Pirate

As much as I'm looking forward to the breeding aspect of the hobby, I really don't keep track of finances all that well. How much the snakes cost doesn't really cross my mind (aside from being able to meet my bills and savings requirements). As of right now it's where all my play money goes because it's what I do for fun! I know I haven't even gotten close to breaking even. I focus on getting the ingredients I can afford, and then try to coordinate that with my fascination for selective breeding.

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_Mike41793_ (05-03-2012)

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## Lair of Dragons

> Ahhh, the trap of breeding success...
> 
> I can produce X number of mutation Q, sell those for $XXX each, cover my costs and pocket $1600. 
> 
> Oh wait, you know what, I better keep this one, and this one, hold back this one for breeding in two years, hold back these to trade for those over there. And this pied here, nicest one I have ever seen, better hang on to that one as well.
> 
> Ah crap, now I am $700 in the hole.


Sad but so very true....been there and doing that...lol
Travis
Lair of Dragons

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## BPro927

Bought my first snake a month ago, I am defiently in the hole about 1300 bucks and i plan on digging myself into that hole deeper. I still need a Female! or two!
:-)

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## Lair of Dragons

Ya you will dig a lot deeper....why does everyone buy the males before the females....
Rebecca post jumped out at me...when I saw the ratio of males to females:
Rebecca
facebook ~ google+
www.rawreptiles.com ~ RAW Reptiles on Facebook
Snakes
5.21 Ball Pythons ~ 1.1 Hypo Jungle Boa ~ 1.1 Hog Island Boa ~ 1.1 Anery KSB

Now that's the way to do it...5 males 21 females...that has potential all over it
I have 17 males and 50 females now 6.7 are tied up to the same project year after year...dbl hets...so I really have 11 males and 43 females...
Most buy a male because they are cheaper and you can say I own that morph and the real expense hits when you start grouping that male....buy females first...they take longer to raise and you can always pick up a male that can be breeding size in a year....JMO
Travis
Lair of Dragons

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## BP2

This is my first season with eggs. I've picked up 4 girls in 2 weeks. I've been keeping balls for 6 years and not seen any return. I have two clutches. One will be on the ground in 12 days the other is a spider het albino x albino pair with 5 good eggs. If I get 1 albino spider and single morph hets and I have a chance of making some BELs from a mojo x mojo I can produce with bad luck $1000-2000 of offspring and with good luck $2000-5000

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## Stewart_Reptiles

Define making money?

Breaking even and no longer being in the hole?

Making a small profit that allows to enjoy little extras in life?

Making a living at it?

I went from being in the hole to breaking even to now making a little profit.

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_Slim_ (05-03-2012)

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## MrLang

What I learned from this thread:


Buy more normal females.

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_AJs Snake House_ (05-04-2012),_moonlightgdess_ (05-03-2012),PitOnTheProwl (05-03-2012)

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## dreese88

I'm currently am in the hole about 15k, but that could all change in the next few months. Have some big time clutches coming up, thinking I'll have about 20-25 eggs in total. Depending on sex ratio and actually making sales, I could leap right out of that hole.

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_Jason Bowden_ (05-11-2012)

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## BallsofMrE

to me thats a interesting question as i havent invested too much money in my collection and i trade small med rats to local breeders for single gene morphs that i sell or keep so the feeding part is takin care of rats pay for them selves as well as a new single gene every now and then so im turning a lil profit already because of my rats and havent even had a clutch as of yet even though i have a normal who is going through prelay shed and another adult cinny bred to my mojave will go soon ,so i guess it really depends on how you look at profit -rats are not snakes but i would not be breeding the rats on such a big level if not for my ball python collection so to me its not a total loss more like a gain

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## Dave Green

You can make a living at this, my last paycheck from someone else was almost five years ago.  I love what I do every day!

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_AGoldReptiles_ (05-03-2012),_AJs Snake House_ (05-04-2012),Balls Out Morphs (05-07-2012),h00blah (05-03-2012),_Jason Bowden_ (05-11-2012),Jester (05-11-2012),_RobNJ_ (05-03-2012),_Slim_ (05-03-2012)

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## MrLang

> You can make a living at this, my last paycheck from someone else was almost five years ago.  I love what I do every day!


Inspirational!

I need to get out of this cubicle...

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## QuidsBalls

I really don't care if I make money at this or not, it's just a hobby

I am currently an Apprentice Electrician, so I make more than enough money from that to support myself and have money left over for my love of Animals in general.

About a year ago I fell in love with Ball Pythons after discovering a Black Eyed Lucy.
I love the look of them, and I hope that one day in the future I may be able to produce a Black Eyed Lucy with as little markings as possible
at least this is one of my projects  :Very Happy: 
Unfortunately I didn't do enough research on them before I found myself at an Expo, spending $700 on a pair of Fire's  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 
Once I do produce it, I will not be selling it, (s)he is going to have a nice spot somewhere in my apartment (or future house) where they will be displayed comfortably

I have a few other projects I'd love to work on (Super Fire Pied, Panda Pied) down the road, and the only money I will be "Making" will be put right back into it, buying Food etc.

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## SquamishSerpents

I really wish I were keeping track of every little dime we spend, but Boyfriend isn't so great at keeping receipts and whatnot. 

I need to create a spreadsheet. Then again, if I see how much we're actually spending, maybe I won't want to breed anymore...lol!

2012 is going to be our first "big" breeding year. We are HOPING for 7 clutches, but would even be happy with 5. Now that most of our females are up to size (aside from 1 new addition), I absolutely expect to be breaking even and maybe even having a bit extra. That's not including my corn clutches, either. 

Oh but we want new racks...Damn. Maybe we'll go a bit in the hole this year, too  :Razz: 

We do breed our own rats now, which is saving us a monstrous amount of $. 

Ah, I just don't know. I'm certain we are losing $, LOL!

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## PitOnTheProwl

I would just be happy IF the odd gods shined on me and my clutch would cover the cost of upkeep for my rats.
Making a living at it would be a dream come true BUT like I said, if the snakes could pay for the rats and mice I would be happy with the full circle :Good Job:

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## BFE Pets

ummmm havent made a dime as of yet. lol I log everything down to the bedding for feeders. Im still growing my collection up to breeding size. I produced only one clutch last year and still have 1.1 left outta 2.5 I cant complain tho I only advertised on craigslist. year after next I should be breaking even for the inital start up and maybe in 5 years i'll be actually turning a profit if I can keep from hoarding my favs. lol I only breed what I like the looks of and i guess my taste are a bit diff than most.

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## AaronP

I've generally made a profit from doing business within the industry but my own personal breeding projects I'm probably just breaking even.  This year may be very different though.

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## RobNJ

I'll have to revisit this thread at the end of the year...as of now, I'm _planning_ on being 100% out of the red soon enough. Then I'm planning on taking pretty much all of that and dump most of it right back in.

While far from trying to make breeding a full time gig, I'll admit that I do want to and plan to make some money. Not a lot, but more than just to cover costs. If I wanted a hobby that is an endless money pit, I'd learn to play golf.

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## Raverthug

This year i might come close to breaking even depending on how many i hold back and how many girls go

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## WingedWolfPsion

Well, I've made back my initial investment, but we won't likely have this as a sole source of income for perhaps 3 or 4 more years.

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## Emilio

I've been out of the red for a couple years now, the hobby I love will likely keep supplementing my income going forward.

I say likely because I might keep 80% of the cool stuff I produce. The best part of all this for me is producing that animal I've been working to get for a couple years. Can't beat that feeling.

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_Jason Bowden_ (05-11-2012)

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## Mike41793

> I've been out of the red for a couple years now, the hobby I love will likely keep supplementing my income going forward.
> 
> I say likely because I might keep 80% of the cool stuff I produce. The best part of all this for me is producing that animal I've been working to get for a couple years. Can't beat that feeling.


What animal did you wanna produce?!?

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## satomi325

I haven't hatched anything yet. But I really don't see myself making any profit or even breaking even for many years to come. If the snakes can pay for their supplies and food(rat food/bedding for my breeders), I'll be content.

But I'm not really in it for the money. I started out getting snakes because they're beautiful animals.

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## Emilio

> What animal did you wanna produce?!?


I'm looking to produce a lot of axanthic stuff in the coming years,  I was really happy when I produced my first Super yellowbelly and Super Lesser.

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## Mike41793

> I'm looking to produce a lot of axanthic stuff in the coming years,  I was really happy when I produced my first Super yellowbelly and Super Lesser.


Nice! Im on the opposite end of the color spectrum, im hoping to produce a super cinny next year! My first ywar breeding, fingers crossed  :Smile:

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## Sama

Sorry, accidentally pressed send. 
I think snakes alone I am about $1,300 in the red, and I would really like to add $400 to that before the year is out. Then there was the rack at about $800, and not counting anything rodent related. I breed my own but feed and bedding adds up, once in a blue moon I sell a rat or mouse. Hopefully I will get 2 clutches this year but nothing deffinate yet and I know I will not be selling much of my first 2 clutches unless I really luck out on the odds. Maybe next year if I am lucky I will start to get out of the hole? I love this hobby tho! If I can make a living at it great, if not maybe I can at least support my rodents and the occasional new addition.

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## hungba

I got a D in accounting in college. However I still notice one thing here is a lot of you are counting the snakes that you bought and their cost as "money lost". Yes you spent the money by the end of the year but that is not money lost. You still have the snakes which will breed for you in the future years.

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## travis11

> I got a D in accounting in college. However I still notice one thing here is a lot of you are counting the snakes that you bought and their cost as "money lost". Yes you spent the money by the end of the year but that is not money lost. You still have the snakes which will breed for you in the future years.


Exactly!

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## Emilio

> Nice! Im on the opposite end of the color spectrum, im hoping to produce a super cinny next year! My first ywar breeding, fingers crossed


I bought my cinny in 08 to make that same snake,  I might try Cinny x Black pastel next season.

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_Mike41793_ (05-05-2012)

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## Brandon Osborne

I've been making money breeding snakes for 20 years. The key to my success has been staying focused on MY goals. I don't get caught up in all the morph hype and "I have to have every morph" mentality. Im still expanding and evolving in the hobby and will continue to do so. Purchase wisely my friends.

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Balls Out Morphs (05-07-2012),_Emilio_ (05-05-2012),_Jason Bowden_ (05-11-2012),_Mike41793_ (05-05-2012),PitOnTheProwl (05-05-2012),_Punkymom_ (06-14-2012),_RobNJ_ (05-05-2012),snakesRkewl (05-05-2012)

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## Simple Man

> I got a D in accounting in college. However I still notice one thing here is a lot of you are counting the snakes that you bought and their cost as "money lost". Yes you spent the money by the end of the year but that is not money lost. You still have the snakes which will breed for you in the future years.


hungba is right! I love business too and have a solid background in it. The snakes are equity. They are also a constant revenue stream if they are healthy and able to produce for you. Done properly it is not difficult to run this hobby as a business. It requires smart buying decisions, thoughtful breeding plans, a discerning eye for choosing your initial breeding stock, time, and patience.

I think something people tend to forget is that it costs money to make money.  I've saved lots of money by taking a DIY approach to caging, incubation, rodents, and other aspects of the hobby. The money I've saved doing things myself has allowed me to invest more in my animals. I'm heating the same room whether I have 2 snakes or 50 snakes. I breed my own rats so it is only time consuming to bump up my production. The trivial cost for an extra bag of rat feed is  greatly exceeded by having quality rodents readily available in any size. I believe that both the heated room and quality rodents are key to my collection's health and substantial growth rates. 

Investing in something beyond a handful of single gene animals and breeder normals is the best way to get into the black in my opinion. If you're trying to climb your way up with 3 or 4 single gene snakes it can be done. It is going to take a considerable amount of time and effort. However, when you start breeding 10+ clutches with the potential to hit 2-4 gene snakes + recessives it really adds up fast.

I'm only expecting 6-7 clutches this year and I should be even in term of actual cash invested. I will actually be double or triple my investment if you take into consideration the equity of my collection. Next year I should be expecting 20+ clutches and should be close to my dream of doing this full-time.

I've seen dozens of people exit and leave the hobby within the last year. This is not a "get rich quick" scheme. How far you go with it is up to you. Ultimately, you should be prepared for a solid commitment of time and money if you want to be successful. You can save time if you have money. Otherwise you can invest more time and still find success.

I would just like to close with the following thoughts if you are thinking about getting into Ball Python breeding.

*It is your hobby. It should be your passion. And it can be your business.*


Regards,

B

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## loonunit

So my husband says if you net less than $5k a year, you can call it "hobby income". But more than that, and it's tax-able? Is that right?

Last year was my first year breeding, so this year is my first year getting money out instead of only putting it in. 

And now I've got 5 or 6 females ovulating or building.  :Surprised:  So I'm going to need more racks... and a bigger incubator... and I might really have to track how much money I spend vs. make this year for tax purposes. Um. Wow?

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## spitzu

Pretty sure you have to claim anything over $500 or so.  I may be wrong

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

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## heathers*bps

I have yet to make any money and if I do, it won't be for a LONG time. Besides, I'm in it for the love of it  :Smile:

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## Brandon Osborne

It's actually anything over $599.99 gross. Just save your receipts and keep great records. If you raise your own rodents, consider that a business as well and buy them from yourself. When you feed a snake for 6 months and sell it at the same price as when it was 6 days, you can claim all of the food as a deduction on the sale. There are tons of things you can use as operating costs for your taxes.

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_Jason Bowden_ (05-13-2012),_jben_ (05-07-2012)

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## spitzu

Brandon, how does that work?  I asked two different accountants about that and they shot the idea down.

I believe I asked something along the lines of "can I claim a certain amount of $$ per rat, based off of what I would have paid to someone else".

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## snake lab

Like with any small buisness the expenses you have to operate the buisness is a deduction. Therefore rats would be a deduction as long as you are filing as a buisness. Also the aquare footage of your operating space is also a deduction. Just like a home office would be. Now if your not filing as a buisness then trying to get deductions for feeding and operating would be a hard thing to do without utilizing all the shades of gray in the tax world. And the irs pays close attention to those skirting the gray areas

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## ClarkT

I'm in the boat of having invested more than I've made. Last year was my first year breeding, and I made about $200 above what I put into it. This year, I'm way deeper into it, but should come out ahead. 

As others have said, I'll have to revisit this thread at the end of the year to re-evaluate what the status is, whether red or black...

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## Brandon Osborne

> Brandon, how does that work?  I asked two different accountants about that and they shot the idea down.
> 
> I believe I asked something along the lines of "can I claim a certain amount of $$ per rat, based off of what I would have paid to someone else".


You need to carefully select who does your accounting. Feeding is a large business expense and is probably the largest deduction next to travel expense and the cost of new animals. Yes, you can claim animals too. 

I've been a professional musician for many years. I know the items I can claim on my music income. Everything you use for operating costs is deductible.

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## MrLang

> I got a D in accounting in college. However I still notice one thing here is a lot of you are counting the snakes that you bought and their cost as "money lost". Yes you spent the money by the end of the year but that is not money lost. You still have the snakes which will breed for you in the future years.


Which is why the thread asks who IS making money and not who might, possibly, theoretically make some money at some point in the future.

There is no value in polling people to see who thinks they might some day end up with more money from the hobby than they spent. Look at the responses for the poll. Obviously most people SHOULD consider it money lost.

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## ClarkT

Yep, it's money lost right now. That's why I didn't vote. I guess if I vote, it'll be the "I'm losing money, but hope to make money in the near future." 

Just noticed, though, that it says I already voted... don't remember voting at all on it.. I didn't click the "vote" button.. oh well.

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## CapeFearConstrictors

> Brandon, how does that work?  I asked two different accountants about that and they shot the idea down.
> 
> I believe I asked something along the lines of "can I claim a certain amount of $$ per rat, based off of what I would have paid to someone else".


No offense to anyone here, but if you take tax advice of someone on a reptile forum over the advice of a CPA, you're only asking for trouble.

I've noticed that a lot of people in this industry like to dance around the tax laws, doing such things as not reporting cash based sales.  This can lead to a lot of problems for you down the line.

I recommend finding an accountant you trust and then take their advice on what you can and cannot claim.  If a CPA misleads you, they can be held legally responsible.  A member on this forum misleading you cannot.

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_MrLang_ (05-07-2012),_Shadera_ (05-07-2012),_spitzu_ (05-07-2012)

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## Brandon Osborne

No offense taken, but I have found many CPAs that do not check into what you can and can't claim as a business expense. If it cost you to feed an animal that makes you money, it is a business expense. Electricity to run your heaters and cooling in the summer costs money above what it normally would. Mileage to and from expos, buying mice, picking up/ dropping off shipments, ect. My girlfriend had her taxes done for 2011 and the "CPA" entered $.32 per mile for work related travel. The correct rate at that time was $.52 per mile. Not all of them know exactly what you can and can't deduct so they choose not to do it. I've been using the same accountant for 20 years and she knows her stuff. If you sit back and just let it go you could be throwing your money away.

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_Jason Bowden_ (05-13-2012)

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## h00blah

Thanks for making the post, Slim  :Good Job: !

I haven't voted because I haven't bred any of my snakes yet! As of right now, they're all just growing and eating my money  :Very Happy: . However, since I have mostly girls, their prices are probably going to be higher than what I initially spent on them... I got some sweet deals on a few of them, and if I sold them even today, I could EASILY get my money back...

As I'm typing this reply, there are a total of 101 votes.

I consider a "goal" to be at least "I'm breaking even across the board". Everything from that point and above are positive outcomes for breeding in my opinion.

There are 50 votes for the positive side from "breaking even" to being able to profit from breeding. That leaves 51 people who are losing money in this.

For the people who wish they could make a profit, I'm curious to know why you're losing money  :Confused: . Poor choices? Bad luck?

For the people who don't care because it's a hobby, why are you guys losing money? Are you guys just holding back too many animals? I'm curious.

Personally, if you're producing what you like, and you're having fun hatching out baby ball pythons, that's a win even if you're not making money! I envy all of you who have successfully hatched even 1 baby ball python! That's something I've been dreaming about for a couple years now  :Very Happy: . I would pay a lot more money than I have to be able to have that feeling... To produce something that you love, or something that impresses you would just be icing on the cake..

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_LotsaBalls_ (05-07-2012),_Slim_ (05-07-2012)

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## Anatopism

> Thanks for making the post, Slim !
> 
> I haven't voted because I haven't bred any of my snakes yet! As of right now, they're all just growing and eating my money . However, since I have mostly girls, their prices are probably going to be higher than what I initially spent on them... I got some sweet deals on a few of them, and if I sold them even today, I could EASILY get my money back...
> 
> As I'm typing this reply, there are a total of 101 votes.
> 
> I consider a "goal" to be at least "I'm breaking even across the board". Everything from that point and above are positive outcomes for breeding in my opinion.
> 
> There are 50 votes for the positive side from "breaking even" to being able to profit from breeding. That leaves 51 people who are losing money in this.
> ...


I voted for the last option, but only because we are nearing our second year of breeding... still very new and fresh to this hobby, and too soon to make any sort of real money. Sure we've sold hatchlings, but still very much in the red for money put in to get where we are currently. Lots of promise, but too soon to say whether we are doing things correctly!

To supplement the hobby, I have a couple other projects going... We are investign in building a couple more rat racks - so that we are not only producing just enough rats for what we have, but a surplus to supply the pet store down the road. Also starting up a couple cockroach colonies, to sell as feeders, as there are no other places for invert feeders in our area. Working at Petco for 5 years before where I am at now, I can appreciate how much money is made on crickets alone. Knowing that there is nobody else in the area that has crickets other than petco/petsmart, and especially nobody with cockroaches, which IMO are better for a number of reasons... there is some potential for a few extra $$$ to be made. Low cost/maintenance, and a couple extra dollars here and there never hurts.

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h00blah (05-12-2012)

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## h00blah

Thanks for the reply Anatopism. I'm looking for a more detailed answer of how you're losing money. Was it the morphs you bought? Rodent and housing cost?

What about everyone else? Remember that buying snakes doesn't necessarily mean you're in the red. The electric bill, rodent costs, potential vet bills, and time are the only real losses. As mentioned above, you must take into consideration the value of your snakes! If you have females, you can probably get more than you paid for when you bought em if they're mature enough!

I bought my enchi for $550. She's over 400 grams. She's NFS, but I'm sure if I said I would sell her to you for $700, at least ONE of you will want her! That's more than I put into feeding her up until today! The bigger she is, the easier I can get that price... Eventually I could sell her for 2x what I paid for her...

Since I consider breeding to be a future hobby, none of those things really matter to me. My sister buys so many toys for her dog... She gets so many fancy decorations for her fish, and she spends extra money to get the best supplies.... She buys quality food for her pets... She doesn't stop to think "wow i lost so much money paying for my pets!" because they bring her joy. Well ball pythons bring me so much joy! As long as I can afford to take care of them and give them great care, I will!

Whoever is losing money, whether it bothers you or not, could you post why/how you're losing money?

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## versicolor

I feel like the poll should be based on what the intention of the individual was to begin with. It should either read: Whos' making money breeding as a business, or: who's making money breeding as a hobby. If this is just a hobby to you then there probably wasn't that drive to make a profit on your investment like someone who's goal was to do this as a supplemental or primary income. You would not do things the same between these two scenarios. If it is simply a hobby then you would not be concerned with obtaining a DBA/business name, marketing strategy, advertisement, etc. And your initial purchase of snakes to be potential breeders would not be based on what morphs are going to give you the best odds at seeing a return on investment. If you really set out to do this as a career then there are all sorts of things you would do differently than a casual hobbiest. So from this poll it's difficult to get a true sense of the results. You would have to know everyones initial intentions and goals when they started this.

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## Slim

> I feel like the poll should be based on what the intention of the individual was to begin with. It should either read: Whos' making money breeding as a business, or: who's making money breeding as a hobby.


Please feel free to post a better poll  :Good Job:

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## versicolor

> Please feel free to post a better poll


I didn't mean to criticize the poll. Sorry if it seemed that way, I appreciate you putting it up. I was just making an observation and sharing it. No offense intended.

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## h00blah

> I feel like the poll should be based on what the intention of the individual was to begin with. It should either read: Whos' making money breeding as a business, or: who's making money breeding as a hobby. If this is just a hobby to you then there probably wasn't that drive to make a profit on your investment like someone who's goal was to do this as a supplemental or primary income. You would not do things the same between these two scenarios. If it is simply a hobby then you would not be concerned with obtaining a DBA/business name, marketing strategy, advertisement, etc. And your initial purchase of snakes to be potential breeders would not be based on what morphs are going to give you the best odds at seeing a return on investment. If you really set out to do this as a career then there are all sorts of things you would do differently than a casual hobbiest. So from this poll it's difficult to get a true sense of the results. You would have to know everyones initial intentions and goals when they started this.


Differentiating the hobby breeders is already done in this poll. If you're making money then who cares if its hobby or business? If you're not making money, then it matters. Hence the last 2 options. You're either losing money and you don't care because it's your hobby, or you're losing money and you are disappointed because your intention was to make money. Of course some people who voted that option are people who say NEXT season they will make money.... I think that aspect is tipping the scales.... Takes time to make money lol. You have to spend it to earn it.... Of course you think you're in the red right now.. You're setting yourself up for success.

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## HCC MORPHS

> Now if I would have sold what I kept I would have came out ahead but what fun is that.
> Travis
> Lair of Dragons



lmao!!!!! PRICELESS!!!!!

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## KingPythons

I never did it for money! To many flippers out here that want things for cheap, when I spent months saving checks to pay for an animal.  :Mad:  Over all Ive made $200 in this game and im cool with it :Cool:

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_Jason Bowden_ (05-13-2012),_Slim_ (05-12-2012)

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## SlitherinSisters

I wish I was making money doing this. I'm a long way from that right now.

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## Anatopism

> Thanks for the reply Anatopism. I'm looking for a more detailed answer of how you're losing money. Was it the morphs you bought? Rodent and housing cost?
> 
> What about everyone else? Remember that buying snakes doesn't necessarily mean you're in the red. The electric bill, rodent costs, potential vet bills, and time are the only real losses. As mentioned above, you must take into consideration the value of your snakes! If you have females, you can probably get more than you paid for when you bought em if they're mature enough!
> 
> I bought my enchi for $550. She's over 400 grams. She's NFS, but I'm sure if I said I would sell her to you for $700, at least ONE of you will want her! That's more than I put into feeding her up until today! The bigger she is, the easier I can get that price... Eventually I could sell her for 2x what I paid for her...
> 
> Since I consider breeding to be a future hobby, none of those things really matter to me. My sister buys so many toys for her dog... She gets so many fancy decorations for her fish, and she spends extra money to get the best supplies.... She buys quality food for her pets... She doesn't stop to think "wow i lost so much money paying for my pets!" because they bring her joy. Well ball pythons bring me so much joy! As long as I can afford to take care of them and give them great care, I will!
> 
> Whoever is losing money, whether it bothers you or not, could you post why/how you're losing money?


I'm sorry h00blah, I missed your response previously. 


We are making money off of our animals, but we've not had enough clutches yet to outweigh the startup costs. That's not to say I don't expect to get there, it's just not yet. We only just hatched our first combo, and have a couple more higher dollar clutches on the way... but we also will focus more on holding back some animals, and any animals sold will go towards  upgrading to more morphs, and fewer normals, or necessary equipment. 

My answer has also slipped a little more into the red, as we are having a massive and mysterious rat die off, what will cost us quite a bit to recover from. Until I start making more money off of snakes than I am putting into them (feeding, electricity, housing, equipment, etc) I will consider myself in the red. Yes it is an investment, but we are not yet in the 'making profit' stage. 

 I'm not the one to consider future potential as current gains--- I feel that considering future potential as money gained now, is like going out and buying a computer with a credit card, figuring you'll pay it off with subsequent paychecks, only to have things like your car break down, or you break your finger and desperately need that money for the hospital. Money in my pocket is money in my pocket, so until we are making more than we are spending per week or per month on average, I consider our situation to be in the red. 

As this is a hobby we do in fact plan on profiting from, I do not consider our current animals' dollar amounts. They are all valuable to the project, so while one morph male may be $1000, this is not spendable money unless we are planning on getting out of the hobby, or that specific project. Until we produce a better snake to replace the first and assuming we aren't keeping the snake as at pet  (our Mojave girl is one that isn't going anywhere ever), the only money considered is that which exceeds the costs going in to maintain the snakes each month.

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h00blah (06-21-2012)

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## Billy305

I've told my self from the beginning that I want to make enough to pay for the hobby. Of course I'm in the hole now as I havn't produced anything yet. I have some cool stuff though and am looking at about 6-8 clutches next season. Hopefully I will take a dent out of my snake/rack costs and help with feeder bills for the next season. Currently I have the males that I want including my girfriends butter het hypo and am only looking for females. I just picked up a proven pastel female and hope to grab decent size het pied or two.

A little extra wouldn't be bad though. =p

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## h00blah

> As this is a hobby we do in fact plan on profiting from, I do not consider our current animals' dollar amounts. They are all valuable to the project, so while one morph male may be $1000, this is not spendable money unless we are planning on getting out of the hobby, or that specific project. Until we produce a better snake to replace the first and assuming we aren't keeping the snake as at pet  (our Mojave girl is one that isn't going anywhere ever), the only money considered is that which exceeds the costs going in to maintain the snakes each month.


This is true. Though my enchi gal's value will probably go up in the next few years, she is probably never going to leave my side  :Very Happy:  :Very Happy: 

Same goes with my first snake which is a normal female  :Good Job: . She will forever be my baby, and the cost of her and her maintenance will be considered an expense  :Razz:

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