# Lizards > Monitors and Tegus >  Toref/Torefet: Varanus Tristis Orientalis/Freckled Tree Monitor

## dakski

My final reptile should be home here tomorrow. 

His/her name is Toref/Torefet (masculine/feminine). Too young to sex, so we will make it permanent when we know for sure. 

It's Hebrew for predator/devourer.

Well, he/she is a monitor. However, a rare monitor, especially in the states. 

Toref is a 3 month old Varanus Tristis Orientalis, or Freckled Tree Monitor. 

"He" will max out at about 2 feet long with half of that being tail. They are similar in size and temperament to Ackie Monitors, but have a thinner build, are faster, and are great climbers, as opposed to diggers. 

His permanent home will be a 4X2X1.5' boaphile tank that Jeff will be building for me. It will complete the 4X2' tower I have and the reptile area will be full, complete, and awesome, as is the collection. 

I am done. Katie and I agreed that Toref is the last reptile, unless someone passes, and/or we get a bigger house, for the foreseeable future. I am at peace with that.

The one caveat is that I've never had a monitor. They are a bit of work and are intelligent and shy and you need to earn their trust and keep it. If, for some reason, this is not a good fit, a) the breeder is happy to find another home (they are in high demand) at any point in time, and b) I will pick someone else for the tank Toref is going in. 

I am not too concerned. This species seems unbelievably cool. However, I won't know much about his personality for a bit. At 3 months, his body is the size of my middle finger (length wise) and he's too small to really handle and is a little flighty. 

They grow fast though, and in a few months, after I've got him (literally) eating out of my hand, we can work on gentle handling. 

Pictures below.

*Toref - sideways on some bark*



*Toref Chillng with a Sibling:

*

*​Some stock photos of Freckled Monitors:*

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*Bogertophis* (01-28-2019),_cletus_ (01-28-2019),_Dianne_ (01-24-2019),fadingdaylight (05-28-2019),_GoingPostal_ (03-05-2019),_Kam_ (08-24-2019),Maru (02-02-2019),_MissterDog_ (01-31-2019),_MR Snakes_ (01-24-2019),_Sauzo_ (01-31-2019),_zina10_ (01-24-2019)

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## Dianne

Very cool new acquisition!  Ive always liked the monitors but never got into them due to their size.  Interesting to hear about a smaller variety.  Im looking forward to his or her progression thread.  Ive no doubt hell be eating out of your hand in no time.  :Razz:

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*Bogertophis* (01-28-2019),_dakski_ (01-24-2019)

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## dakski

> Very cool new acquisition!  Ive always liked the monitors but never got into them due to their size.  Interesting to hear about a smaller variety.  Im looking forward to his or her progression thread.  Ive no doubt hell be eating out of your hand in no time.


Thank you Dianne. I think he's going to rock!

Some of the medium sized, but relatively docile monitors appeal to me too, like the Yellow, or Quince Monitor. They get about 4FT, but are smaller bodied than other monitors; again, semi-arboreal. However, a 4X2X1.5', all I have room left for, is not adequate for one at all. They are okay with 4FT of length, and even 2FT of floor space, as a minimum, but require 3-4FT of height as well!

What's cool about these guys, and the Ackies too, is that they are just "mini" Big Monitors, with similar personality, intelligence, etc. However, they are generally a little more docile and can be held in one hand!

If you are interested in learning more about Freckled Monitors, or Ackies, etc, let me know (feel free to PM me). I've done a lot of research. I can recommend some good books that are relatively inexpensive on Amazon and can share what I've learned. This breeder is local, but I talked his ear off! He really knew his stuff and had answers to all my questions. So, that's a good sign. I was mostly asking Freckled Monitor specific questions, but he breeds Ackies, and other dwarf species. 

Unfortunately, you have to go to Europe, or really Australia, to find breeders of a plethora of dwarf species. They have pygmy monitors that are the size of a leopard gecko, for example. 

This is the best feeding video I could fine on youtube of one of these monitors. I only found a few. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95oChpI08sA

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*Bogertophis* (01-28-2019)

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## Dianne

Very cool video.  Im afraid you lost me with the bug eating.  I know it is a completely irrational fear considering I keep snakes, but bugs and spiders freak me out.  Ill have to live vicariously through you.  :Wink: 

I have always read that the monitors were very intelligent.  I mostly see savannah monitors around here, and years ago the occasional nile monitor.  If I ever get over my bug phobia, Ill have to look into these.

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_dakski_ (01-24-2019)

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## dakski

> Very cool video.  Im afraid you lost me with the bug eating.  I know it is a completely irrational fear considering I keep snakes, but bugs and spiders freak me out.  Ill have to live vicariously through you. 
> 
> I have always read that the monitors were very intelligent.  I mostly see savannah monitors around here, and years ago the occasional nile monitor.  If I ever get over my bug phobia, Ill have to look into these.


Unfortunately, the smaller monitors eat bugs as a staple. I will supplement with lean proteins and small rodents. 

For now, cut up pinkie mice, scrambled egg, raw or boiled egg, boiled chicken pieces, etc. are all okay. Ground turkey is good too. However, even as an adult 50-60% of his diet will be insects. 

I have 4 other insect eaters in the house, so it doesn't bother me. I am used to it. However, certain bugs - NOPE. 

No crickets, etc. 

I don't mind Dubia Roaches because they don't breed if they get out, don't smell, don't bite, and really good the lizards. Mealworms and super worms I am okay with as well. The latter he can eat when bigger, but not too many mealworms. Harder to digest. 

Happy to have you live vicariously through me though Dianne.

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*Bogertophis* (01-28-2019),_Dianne_ (01-24-2019),Timelugia (05-19-2019)

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## dakski

*He's here! He's home!

*Toref came home tonight. Katie and went and visited him and his siblings and he was still the one who wanted to interact the most. So, he came home with us. 
He's spent the past two hours thoroughly exploring his cage. It's a temporary tank while he grows out and Jeff at Boaphile builds his 4X2X1.5' tank. 

It's full of branches and flat woods pieces and logs and hides. 

He seems pretty intrigued by it. He seems to like his new digs. However, he keeps wanting to climb the walls. In his old tank, the background was climbable. I think he will figure it out pretty quickly though. 

Below are two videos and some pictures. I'll post more ASAP, but want him to settle in a bit tonight at least, before more pictures and disruption. He watches me like a hawk. Even from across the room, he's eyeing me. 
*
Video of Toref* *going into his new home: https://streamable.com/qlyyv

Video of Toref exploring after just entering his new tank: https://streamable.com/kdtyp


*

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*Bogertophis* (01-28-2019),_GoingPostal_ (03-05-2019),_Jus1More_ (02-03-2019),_Kam_ (08-24-2019),_zina10_ (01-25-2019)

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## Dianne

He is adorable!  And so tiny!  I bet he can move like greased lightning.  :Very Happy:

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*Bogertophis* (01-28-2019),_dakski_ (01-25-2019),TopazEye (09-25-2019)

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## artgecko

Congrats on the new addition!  Your setup looks great and he looks nice and healthy.  I'll be eager to see how things go with him.  I don't know much about monitors but have heard that they are very rewarding to keep.

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_dakski_ (01-25-2019)

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## dakski

> He is adorable!  And so tiny!  I bet he can move like greased lightning.


Oh yeah! Fast! You should see how quickly he can navigate branches, etc. to get to food. Also, not really "handleable" at this point. Very squirmy and flighty. They tend to grow out of it with time and handling and interaction. 

Basically, I am supposed to leave him alone for 2-3 weeks to settle in an equate me with food, etc. Then I can start interacting with him in the tank. Hand feeding, letting him smell/climb on me, etc. Start building trust. 




> Congrats on the new addition!  Your setup looks great and he looks nice and healthy.  I'll be eager to see how things go with him.  I don't know much about monitors but have heard that they are very rewarding to keep.


Thank you! They are supposed to be incredibly rewarding. That's the main reason I got him. Also, incredibly active, great hunters, interactive with their keepers, and diurnal. He's really the only animal I have that I can interact with in their environment during the day other than Frank (blue tongue skink). 2/13 isn't a great ratio. Good thing I am a night owl! Of course, the snakes don't mind coming out to say hello during the day, but the Leopard Geckos in particular, as well as the Rhacodactylus, get a little cranky some times.

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*Bogertophis* (01-28-2019),_Dianne_ (01-25-2019)

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## dakski

Toref seems good. He didn't want Dubai yesterday (used to crickets), and ignored scrambled egg microwaved in the bowl (NO fat used in cooking), but he's still getting adjusted and is easily spooked right now. However, he got braver throughout the day. 

Around 2PM, I cut up a mouse fuzzy (Frozen mouse fuzzy - a) easier to cut then defrosted and b) I would never hurt a live animal). I cut about 1/4 of the body, including the heart, into bite size pieces, and defrosted. That was in his bowl for about 2 seconds and he ran down and gobbled down the mouse parts. He should only eat rodent 2X a week or so and insects 5-6 right now. As an adult, and eating every other day, he can eat rodent 1/3 meals easily. Other lean protein, like ground turkey, can be mixed in, or even boiled chicken. 

He must have worn out exploring because I found him worn out in the morning, passed out between his two wood "planks/basking areas." It was so cute. 

I did have a potential issue, however. In devouring the mouse parts, he dragged them through the substrate (having taken them out of his bowl), and ate 3 pieces of alfalfa bedding. I am using it because it is digestible, but that seemed like a lot for a guy his size. He seems fine now, and his metabolism is super fast, especially as a baby, so I probably would have known by now if there is was an issue (12 hours later) and he's fast asleep hanging from his vertical log. However, I am thinking of a) using a bigger bowl, b) putting in on his wood planks, and not on the substrate, and c) potentially switching to Reptile Prime coconut fiber substrate. 

Again, the bedding (link here: https://www.zillarules.com/all-produ...ing-and-litter) is supposed to excellent in dryer tanks (horrible in wet/humid environments) and is digestible. From what I've read, not just Zilla says so. It's supposed to be very safe for all arid species (again moisture is not good as it causes it to expand, lose it's antibacterial and absorbent nature, and smell). 

Anyone have experience with Reptile Prime being ingested by a lizard and being okay? Any thoughts on what might be a better substrate option? Thank you in advance and I'll advise if anything changes for the worst. However, if I don't say anything, assume he's fine. 

*Here's a video of Toref eating a piece of mouse Fuzzy: https://streamable.com/7wxep


**Toref this morning before he woke up: 

*
*​Toref this morning after he woke up:

*



*A few hours after his meal:

*

*
Bedtime:

*
*A little after bedtime:
*

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*Bogertophis* (01-28-2019),_Dianne_ (01-26-2019),dr del (01-27-2019),_Kam_ (08-24-2019)

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## dakski

I think Toref is really settled in now. He's shedding again, but still pounding food. Haven't been working on handling too much as he's about 40G now and has a long way to go. However, he looks bigger every week and seems a little better (maybe) every time I take him out to clean his tank.

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*Bogertophis* (08-18-2019),_richardhind1972_ (08-19-2019)

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## dakski

Here are some pictures of my growing, and still not really handleable guy. 

I pretty much let him run around the tank like a crazy animal and tire out a bit and then pick him up (still with fanfare). He urinated and urated on me again today. I spent a minute with him when I put him back and he calmed down some. I'll keep working with him and let grow some more before we try real handling. 

He's pounding canned crickets (his favorite) and canned silkworms, super worms, cockroaches, etc. He also loves chopped up mice (his other favorite) but only gets that every 7-10 days. He's growing for sure, but I didn't weigh him today. He's also still shedding as you can see in the pictures. 

I got a great shot of him with his tongue partially out. He's lucky he's so cool and cute, otherwise I wouldn't put up with his crap (or should I say urate?)  :Smile: .

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*Bogertophis* (08-23-2019),_richardhind1972_ (08-24-2019)

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## Bogertophis

I agree...he's cute enough to get away with most anything, lol.

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_dakski_ (08-23-2019)

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## richardhind1972

He really is cute dave 

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_dakski_ (08-24-2019)

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## dakski

Not the best day with Toref! He peed on me when I took him out of his tank to clean AND when I put him back. I am annoyed. I had held him for a bit before putting him back and thought I was in the clear. He must have just peed on me as I put him back. I do not mind the pee so much but I do not want to reward the behavior with putting him back. Oh well. I'll work on it next week when I clean again. 

In the meantime, I got a video of him in his holding container.



Also, he's been devouring all the food I am giving him and I am upping the amount I feed him in each sitting. He's definitely growing, but I want to maintain growth at this point and not let is slow.

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*Bogertophis* (09-02-2019),_richardhind1972_ (09-02-2019)

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## Bogertophis

[QUOTE=dakski;2710646]...I do not want to reward the behavior with putting him back. Oh well. I'll work on it next week when I clean again...[QUOTE]

I don't think it works that way for wild creatures like snakes & lizards...they don't relate to "rewards", they "go" when we scare it out of them or they just have to.   :Wink: 
I don't believe they are capable of understanding how to manipulate us, that really takes the more social creatures like dogs or monkeys & some kinds of birds, etc.

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## dakski

[QUOTE=Bogertophis;2710653][QUOTE=dakski;2710646]...I do not want to reward the behavior with putting him back. Oh well. I'll work on it next week when I clean again...


> I don't think it works that way for wild creatures like snakes & lizards...they don't relate to "rewards", they "go" when we scare it out of them or they just have to.  
> I don't believe they are capable of understanding how to manipulate us, that really takes the more social creatures like dogs or monkeys & some kinds of birds, etc.


Thats a good point. Just hope over time he calms down a little?

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## Bogertophis

[QUOTE=dakski;2710654][QUOTE=Bogertophis;2710653]


> ...I do not want to reward the behavior with putting him back. Oh well. I'll work on it next week when I clean again...
> 
> Thats a good point. Just hope over time he calms down a little?


I hope so too...for your sake -as the "recipient" LOL.

I've seen a few other posts here though where others have said similar things about not wanting to "reward" the snake that just bit them by putting them down (ie. giving up on handling), & I just really don't think that's how it is with snakes & lizards.  When they don't feel safe with us, forcefully holding them longer won't win you any points, but rethinking one's approach & maybe taking more time will eventually pay off.  Not always, but usually.  I just don't think they understand the "reward" concept? Of course if you hold Toref long enough, he's bound to run out & be "empty"?   :Very Happy:

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_dakski_ (09-02-2019)

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## dakski

Toref is growing like a weed now. He and I had a little talk today and I learned two things. 1. When in doubt, he will still pee on me. 2. He's getting big nails - scratchy scratchy!

He did pee on me, but he was a little calmer, if barely. Also, I spoke to my buddy Don Soderberg at South Mountain Reptiles, and I've read it here before, but he preached it, and I put my an undershirt I sweated like crazy in into his tank today after I cleaned it. He pointed out that Monitors are big on smell and if he gets used to my smell/scent in his tank, where he feels safe, that could go a long way. I am trying it, finally. 

The video below is all of 13 seconds long. Shows his curiosity and his size now.

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*Bogertophis* (09-24-2019),_richardhind1972_ (09-25-2019)

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## Bogertophis

> ...He did pee on me, but he was a little calmer, if barely...


In other words, he pee'd on you, but he didn't enjoy it?   :ROFL:   (sorry, my bad...)

Sounds like a good idea to get him used to your scent by installing a scented shirt in his home turf...I really hope it works, it's no fun being "the statue in the park".   :Wink:

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_dakski_ (09-24-2019)

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## richardhind1972

Toref looking great dave.
I love the way lizards seem to listen to you when you talk to them 
I've the heard the thing about a scenting with a t-shirt in the tank, great idea, got nothing to loose either, fingers crossed 

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_dakski_ (09-25-2019)

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## dakski

When I put my shirt in the tank, I made another change as well. I replaced Toref's two cave hides (the ones with the lid on the top, but the bottom is solid and it's not the tank floor), which he is outgrowing, with the black Reptile Basics hides I use for the snakes as well. They have an offset opening, so he can feel secure in there, but maybe not quite as secure, which might not be a bad thing. They are also much lighter and easier to maneuver. 

He was peeking out of one when I went to bring his food and he watched me put it down, then hid, then when I walked away (had things to do) he ate everything I put out. 

I would really like him to be more aware of what I do in the tank, especially bringing food, so he gets used to that. Before, with the old cave hides, he was so tucked in there, I do not think he saw me put the food down and did not associate me with the food. 

Hopefully, this is a good step also.

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*Bogertophis* (09-27-2019),_richardhind1972_ (09-27-2019)

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## richardhind1972

> When I put my shirt in the tank, I made another change as well. I replaced Toref's two cave hides (the ones with the lid on the top, but the bottom is solid and it's not the tank floor), which he is outgrowing, with the black Reptile Basics hides I use for the snakes as well. They have an offset opening, so he can feel secure in there, but maybe not quite as secure, which might not be a bad thing. They are also much lighter and easier to maneuver. 
> 
> He was peeking out of one when I went to bring his food and he watched me put it down, then hid, then when I walked away (had things to do) he ate everything I put out. 
> 
> I would really like him to be more aware of what I do in the tank, especially bringing food, so he gets used to that. Before, with the old cave hides, he was so tucked in there, I do not think he saw me put the food down and did not associate me with the food. 
> 
> Hopefully, this is a good step also.


Fingers crossed that will work dave

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_dakski_ (09-27-2019)

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## Bogertophis

Those changes sound like they may help, I hope so too, Dave.

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_dakski_ (09-27-2019),_richardhind1972_ (09-27-2019)

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## dakski

> Fingers crossed that will work dave
> 
> Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk





> Those changes sound like they may help, I hope so too, Dave.



Thank you both. I have nothing to loose and everything to gain. He's also getting some size to him, which won't hurt (well, except for the nails/claws part  :Smile: ). They are supposed to chill as they get bigger. I figure, by weight, he's about 1/6 to 1/8 of the way there. However, growing, as it does, is going much faster now as he's eating more and is a good 50G or so (if I had to guess) now.

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*Bogertophis* (09-27-2019),_richardhind1972_ (09-27-2019)

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## dakski

Man, Toref can eat. He ate 4 large crickets and a large pinkie today. No wonder he's growing like crazy. He eats 4-5 days a week and that much in each sitting. I am sure he would eat more, but I don't want him getting lazy and compliant. Plus, historically, feeding every day, he skipped meals. 

I have to be cognizant of offering more every few weeks though, as he's growing that fast! I think I am going to need a bigger bowl!

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_richardhind1972_ (09-28-2019)

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## dakski

So, Toref is not calming down. The opposite. He leapt out of his tank today when I went to pick him up and I grabbed him behind my head before he jumped off. Further, when I went to pick him up from his holding enclosure, he tried to bite me. Oh, and yes, he did pee on me again.  

I've had him for the better part of a year now and he's not calming down. He's growing like a weed and I learned recently that Monitor's are mildly venomous - not just Komodo Dragons, but all Monitor's. That's why I didn't get a a hognose snake, being a kidney transplant recipient and immune suppressed. 

He's going to get a lot bigger - about 6-7X his current size, and if the aggression/defensiveness continues, he poses a decent threat. Further, the time and risk reward is not paying off. I spend a ton of time feeding him, cleaning up after him, etc. I still can't handle him. 

Katie suggested to me tonight that we give him back to the local breeder I got him from. I would be lying if I said I hadn't had that thought. She's not pushing and has zero interaction with him. She just knows I vent about him a lot. 

I have never given up on an animal before (as an adult) and stick by commitments. Further, I wanted a challenge. However, I think I might have bitten off more than I can chew here.  

I also think I am anthropomorphizing. He doesn't care if I give him back to the breeder and he gets another home. It's not like he loves me (understatement of the year). 

Any thoughts? Everyone I've spoken to says he's old enough that this is probably his personality. I've also read in (special ordered out of print) monitor books that mention this species, that they are very flighty and do not tend to calm down. They may be the size of Ackies, but not the temperament of them. 

Again, I don't want to do wrong by Toref, but I do not think this a good fit. I've had this thought for a while, but was hoping he would grow out of it. 

Every animal I have is handleable and docile. He's the outlier.

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*Bogertophis* (10-03-2019),_richardhind1972_ (10-03-2019)

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## Bogertophis

It's a lot of work taking care of an animal you can't really relate to as you'd hoped.  What they call a "thankless job", really.  I don't blame you one bit for feeling 
this way.  The only difference between you & me is that I knew without ever owning a monitor that it wasn't a pet I wanted.  I wasn't aware that they are considered 
to be mildly venomous...I thought it was just that their saliva was full of toxic germs because of their scavenging diet in the wild (which isn't much "better"). 

 Gee, & to think we talked you out of a hognose snake, lol.  "Oops!"  :Embarassed:   I personally wouldn't care for his flightiness & speed either, but your health truly is the 
most important consideration, IMO.  The bigger he gets, the bigger risk of his bites to you.  I'd rather have YOU around than Toref.   :Wink:

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_dakski_ (10-03-2019)

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## dakski

Well, Toref is getting a new home. Or, should I say, Torefet! Turns out Toref/Torefet was a girl. That may have been part the problem as the females are known for being more skittish. 

Old enough to sex now anyway. 

I had bought Torefet from the my friend who owns a killer reptile store. The breeder, his buddy, came in and spoke to me for a while, and specializes in dwarf monitors. I thought I had it covered. 

I gave Torefet back to the shop owner last night. He offered me credit or money. I said I don't want anything except a promise that you either give her back to the breeder, or find the best home possible and do not just sell her to anyone. He agreed. The shop owner is a standup guy who's been doing this for 20 years. 

Of course when he took Torefet out of her carrying container, she peed on him, repeatedly! Multiple times! He was surprised, but amused. 

For the record, I know I did the best for Torefet, but also recognize that this wasn't the best fit. Katie cemented it for me and gave me an out while still keeping my chin up, so did many on this forum. 

Every animal I have is interesting, but all are handleable and not a threat to me. Torefet was pushing it to begin with, but turned out much more interesting than handleable, interactive, or even a display animal. I need to stick to my philosophy that if my niece (8) can't handle it, I shouldn't keep it.

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_ballpythonsrock2_ (10-05-2019),*Bogertophis* (10-04-2019),_cletus_ (10-04-2019),_richardhind1972_ (10-04-2019)

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## cletus

Really sorry that you had to get rid of him, but happy for you that it ended on a somewhat positive note.

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_dakski_ (10-04-2019)

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## dakski

Guys, I have great news on Torefet!

Adam, my buddy at the reptile shop, loves her and is planning on keeping her. He's hoping to find a male from another bloodline (difficult because they are rare) and potentially breed them. 

I visited the shop today for some supplies and he told me the good news. He really seems to enjoy her despite her attitude. He says she's gotten a tiny bit better, but has put on some size in the past month or so. 

He promised to find a good home for her, and he did. She's currently a shop mascot!

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_Dianne_ (11-22-2019),_jmcrook_ (11-15-2019),_richardhind1972_ (11-16-2019)

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