# Ball Pythons > General BP's >  Being fair about PetSmart (and buying your ball python from them)

## theartofsolitude

okay, please dont flame me... but just wanna share my experience.

snake enthusiast in this forum will strongly discourage a newbie from buying their very first ball python from petsmart.  im not saying their wrng, infact that is actually true.  the petsmart where i got my ball, only got 2 supplies of bp with them.. and the other one is horrible, striking me and all the bystanders for like 20 times in 1 minute.

however, this bp that i got from them was really really really really really docile.  he is about to shed now coz his eyes are both 'blueish/gray' and his skin is pale.  but never had ever shown aggressiveness on me, not even ones, NEVER EVER STROKE ME!

but hey, when he smell rodents, specifically F/T ones, as how they are fed in petsmart, they change from a very silent lamb to a wild lion.  though he doesnt strike everywhere, but his tongue just starts commin out like every 2 secs and moving slowly like, wth where is that scent coming from.

and then i try to hit him with the prey on his body and he will be like, "wth, i felt that! you're dead mr rodent"

then eventually put the snake in front of his head, after waking him up and pissing him for like 10 secs.. then SNAP, TAG, eats the rodent.

so after swallowing the whole thing, i'm just crazy to put my hand in there, i wanna get bit, intentially, i just wanna know how it feels, but NADA. the snake smells my hand and i'm he's like... "i know you, i wont bite ya, i'm just gonna chill here and go back in my hide, thanks for the rodent though, its tasty."

i'm just saying not all snakes from petsmart is good... maybe i just got lucky, like what i said on my previous post, there are only 2 snakes in petsmart when i bought my bp, a super aggressive one and and a super docile one, obviously i got the docile one and i'm very happy about him and is now tempting me to go hop in the petsmart on the city next to mine to probably get my second bp.  :Very Happy:  goodluck!!

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## AkHerps

I live in Alaska, and in general, it is hard to get reptiles up here from breeders down in the states.  They just don't want to risk their animals traveling so far, so I know where you're coming from.  Most of my other reptiles, Cresteds, beardies, I've had to get from the only pet store, Petco, which killed all of our other awesome small mom and pop pet stores...The family I live with recently got a baby ball python from Petco, and it died a couple weeks later from IBD. People are against places like Petco and Petsmart because a lot of the times the animals are kept in less than clean and proper housing, barely fed, and can be filled with parasites and have diseases.

Last month I got a ball shipped here from LLLreptile and he still looks very healthy, even though he has refused all the frozen/thawed and I can't find any live mice in town, he is decently tame, never struck at me, but is still shy when it comes to fast movements, I just hope he eats soon...

But sometimes I really don't think it's bad to get animals from pet stores, or less than perfect breeders. I would much rather adopt though(our other ball is adopted).

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## Jay_Bunny

Every Petsmart is different but I would not hesitate to purchase a ball python from the store I work in. Our Petsmart is very clean and we have knowledgeable people (for the most part. I'm educating them). The snakes are fed f/t and handled on a semi-regular basis (not after meals of course) and our snakes are always healthy. They are just really expensive in comparison to a normal from a breeder.

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## SnakeKB

I was at Petco yesterday checking out there ball python. The lady i was talking to was able to answer any normal question i was asking. The snakes tank looked fairly clean and the snake was active hanging around the front of the tank for everyone to see him. The normal price is $80 though, which i guess isnt too bad once thinking how much shipping costs from out of state breeders. But every so often they have a sale of them putting the price down to $40. I wouldnt hesitate getting one from the petco near me. I got a hamster there and had her for a month now with no problems at all. Shes very friendly. I think if the animal does die within 15 days you are able to take it back and exchange it. Hate to look it like that but it does cover there negligance if the animal happened to have an existing problem when you bought it.

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rraelee (03-25-2017)

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## rabernet

To the OP - there is no need to hit your snake with the frozen/thawed rodent in order to "piss them off" enough to get them to eat. Just do a little zombie dance in front of them - if they're already taking f/t prey, that's all that's really needed. 

The petsmart that I go to pages me when they know I'm in the store when they have a customer looking at the snakes, in order to answer their questions. They also quiz me when they're not sure about something so that they can share better information. 

I was in there Thursday, and they keep female rodents, but accidentally got a male mouse that they segregated into the back. The manager saw me and said "do you want a male mouse? I don't care if you use it to feed your snake, I just can't keep it, since we sell females - and I'm afraid he got my female mice pregnant". I said "sure, if I don't have to buy it". She then told me that happens to them every so often, and she's just going to call me when she gets male mice in and let me just take them - she didn't even write the animal up. She also said if any of the females end up having litters, she's just going to call me to take her and the babies. 

She also called me when they'd had a kingsnake there for about 10 months and he just wasn't selling (but getting bigger and bigger) and wanted to know if I'd buy him at a reduced price. At the time, the reduced price wasn't enough for me to buy him. Like I told her - you're basically asking me to take it on as a "rescue", and that's just too high. She said if he didn't sell in the next week at the reduced price, she'd lower it again and call me. An employee was nearby and said - "heck, I'll take him at the next price cut!" I told her "there you go! He's sold!" LOL

It's just a really good crew at my local Petsmart.

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## Wh00h0069

The problem is not the snake's attitudes. It's the fact that many are imported, and may have mites or other diseases. 

I also would rather support my local breeders, and buy from them instead of a chain pet store.

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## ameh78

from my personal xp - petsmart is not near as bad as jacks. I have 3 local jacks pets and every single store has something that makes me extremely mad. The first store has several different types of reptiles together. Green Tree frogs in with crested geckos - chameleons in with green anoles and whites tree frog (hello! the whites WILL eat the anoles!). The next store has half dead anoles..ive told them numerous times about the dead anoles and how there is no way, and they only mist once a day and just a very tiny bit.. the final one made me call their corp office. they had a crested in with anoles and the crested geckos care info said "temp should be 80-90 degrees"..... I went to the girl working and said this was VERY wrong. Anything over 80 is very very bad for a crested. She shrugged and told me it came from the office and she couldnt change it. I called...and was told what they had was correct and it wouldnt be changed..

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## tonyaltn

I have a Petsmart and a Petco within 12 miles, the Petsmart is more like Petstupid in my opinion, I called them looking for a ceramic heat element to replace by night bulb to help with humidity, and I was looking for a Repti Glow 2.0 just for some cool lighting and the guy told me I need a Repti Glow 10.0 for a Ball Python becuase the entire tank needs to be 95* !!!!!!. The Petco in Des Moines (South Side) though is very nice, the girl I do buisness with (I call her my bug girl because she is always there when I pickup crickets) is a Vet Tech. and is very smart, she also loves the animals...and the people I deal with all own reptiles. The animals are healthy, the tanks are always clean and they always have food. Sometimes when I go in there I can see some of the animals being given meds and stuff wich I believe stems from where they came from, they will take an animal to a seperate area if they see something is wrong with it and wont bring it back out until it is better. I have never seen any animals for sale that are in poor condition.
Now as far as anything else goes, as in supplies...unless I need something that cant wait, I will order from herpsupplies.com because their stuff is half the price of a chain store. The UTH I got from there started to malfunction and burned out, I have a new one on the way, but that $40+ UTH from Petco is coming from herpsupplies for $25, and I am changing my nightglow bulb to a ceramic heat element...$40 at Petsmart because Petco dont have it, only $25 from Herpsupplies. I will buy animals from Petco, thats where I got my Crestie but unless its an emergency, I wont buy anything else from them.

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## dsirkle

A Pet Smart will charge 3 times more for a baby bp than a local breeder at a show. Because Petsmart would most likely be selling imported bp's they may have mites, and a bigger problem might be getting them to eat. These are the reasons  that Petsmart isn't the vendor of choice.
That being said, if you already have a bp from Petsmart the world will not end. If you have no local reptile shows or local breeders a chain Pet store may be your only option.

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ssg150102 (09-05-2015)

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## Jay_Bunny

> A Pet Smart will charge 3 times more for a baby bp than a local breeder at a show. Because Petsmart would most likely be selling imported bp's they may have mites, and a bigger problem might be getting them to eat. These are the reasons  that Petsmart isn't the vendor of choice.
> That being said, if you already have a bp from Petsmart the world will not end. If you have no local reptile shows or local breeders a chain Pet store may be your only option.


See, again, it is all on the individual Petsmart. The snakes that come into our store, while sometimes small, are not infested with mites. (haven't seen a single mite yet), are free from respiratory infections, and we usually get a few f/t meals into them before they leave. We have a bp in the back (he can't go on the floor yet because we only put 2 in the tank at a time so we don't overcrowd). He is only 53g but he's eating, so I am confidant he will make a good pet. Not aggressive either.  :Smile:  

You will have good stores, like mine. And you will have bad stores. You WILL find Petsmarts that do not hire the right people and do not take care of their animals. I actually just saw a video online of a person who went undercover at a Petsmart near her and the care was horrible. Dead and dying animals all over the place, overcrowding, illness, rodents eating each other.

Now, my store knows that if I had the room, I'd adopt any animal that came into the store that needed to be adopted. I've already told them I'll take in any reptile that gets dropped off and find it a good home.

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## Kaorte

I got my first bp from my local petsmart here in Chicago. At first I had no idea about breeders or anything. Then I learned that you really shouldn't buy animals from big box pet stores. But looking back on it, I wouldn't have done anything differently. The petsmart by me is great. The animals are always well taken care of, clean, and the staff are actually pretty knowledgeable. Most of them actually have some reptiles of their own! 

It really just depends on the store and where they get their animals from. If they get imported animals, chances are they will have more problems. If they get them from a local source, chances are they will be just like any other snake you buy from a breeder.

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## Killerflash

I just wanted to touch in on this a little bit. I've been working at Petsmart for a few months now and I'm basically our reptile guy and we get all of our reptiles from specific breeders that we trust and they have their animals tested for disease and what not prior to doing any business with them. We have a pretty good team who takes good care of them really well at my store and I think someone mentioned it earlier, but I wanted to mention it again that we do have a quarantine room specifically for sick animals and also a new arrival room which is basically another quarantine room for new animals we get to stay in for a while to make sure they are healthy before they go out for display. 
We get all kinds of morphs too; our most recent one is a piebald we got last night.

With that said it can be very different store to store some are great and I wouldn't be surprised if some weren't. I've actually talked to a guy at another location over the phone who didn't even know what a 'ball python morph' meant. All of my reptiles I have are from breeders right now, but after working here I wouldn't be strayed from getting one at a good store by anything other than price (Unless there is a sale &#128523 :Wink: .

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FluppleWott (09-06-2015)

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## AKA Dave

Tucker is a Petsmart refugee.  Although he was a little expensive for a normal, he's been great and really launched me and the family back into herps.  Even my anti-snake wife now holds them and is actually breeding Crested Geckos herself.  Point is, I think if varies from store to store.  I've got a good relationship with my local Petco too.  Be polite, answer their questions and see if you can't be helpful.  It really pays off for everyone involved IMO.

Dave

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## pbyeerts

I got my Ginger from my local PetSmart, and except for some mites, she's been in perfect health.  


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## maudie

got my first ball python at one of those, she's the sweetest snake you'll ever meet as well as in perfect health. they overpriced her a bit, but she was well worth it

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## mainer12

Got my second ball from them, labeled as a super pastel but I'm fairly certain that he isn't. Should be an interesting project proving him out eventually though

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## distaff

My biggest problem with pet stores is that there is no bio-security. 

Anyone who wants to may ask to handle an animal.  That person may already have snakes, and have a mite problem as well.  That spreads mites to the snakes at the store.  I also have heard of returned live mice refused by a BP.  If you buy a live mouse at a pet store that accepts mouse returns, then there is no guarantee that that mouse wasn't in someone else's cage (a possibly dirty cage infested with mites).  

Mites are suspected carriers of IBD.  You will probably know soon if your BP catches IBD, but you might not know for many months if your boas catch it.

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## FluppleWott

> I was at Petco yesterday checking out there ball python. The lady i was talking to was able to answer any normal question i was asking. The snakes tank looked fairly clean and the snake was active hanging around the front of the tank for everyone to see him. The normal price is $80 though, which i guess isnt too bad once thinking how much shipping costs from out of state breeders. But every so often they have a sale of them putting the price down to $40. I wouldnt hesitate getting one from the petco near me. I got a hamster there and had her for a month now with no problems at all. Shes very friendly. I think if the animal does die within 15 days you are able to take it back and exchange it. Hate to look it like that but it does cover there negligance if the animal happened to have an existing problem when you bought it.


Funny. I never really realized that the prices would be different at different Petcos lol! At our Petco, the normal ball pythons are $59. Every now and then all of their reptiles are half priced, too.

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## BCS

It has nothing to do with ball python personality that you should stay away from petsmart, its their care of the animals. Totally different animal but, we once bought a pet rabbit from them, he had snuffles, unknown to us. They day we bought him he started sneezing and white mucus from his nose. We asked pet smart for their vet and for a free visit to the vet (petland does pay for animals first vet visit as long as it is within ten days of purchase) but this is not how pet smart works. They refuse to pay for the vet so we took him back. It was super unfortunate. Ten days later we found a healthy rabbit breeder and got one off of them for half the price we bought the one from pet smart. 

Pet smart (and pretty much every other pet store) charges outrageous prices. The normal ball pythons at the pet smart here are being sold for $110. I just bought a proven breeder from a local breeder for $40. I know when I produce normals I wont sell them more then $50.

Another reason to stay away from pet smart and other pet stores is because of their lack of knowledge. Noobs get their information from these people and end up coming here with questions...... 

Whether I get a ball python from a breeder or from a pet store, I am always taking the risk of get one with a bad attitude... that part isn't the problem. 

And please don't smack your ball python with a rat... that is so uncool. Your impatience may just pee him off one day.

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## distaff

I will pay a premium for quality.  PetSmart type stores have the premium, but give you few reasons to expect the quality.

There is a breeder on line with a normal I want.  He is charging $100.  Hardly a deal.  However, I've watched his videos, seen his husbandry practices and the care he takes, agree with his philosophy, corresponded with him multiple times, etc.  To me, all that makes the price worth it.   If she is still available when I am set up and ready for her, I'll gladly pay that.

I have NO such relationship with any pet store

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## bigpapi211

Is she an adult


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## Timelugia

Yeah, like everyone's been saying, it depends on the individual petsmart- since management and employees are different. The funny thing I found though from working at petsmart is the snakes that come to us tend to either be like you described: striking at everything and everything that moves or super docile and friendly. Usually I say ask the employees, they'll know which is which.

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## hanzo_baseball

I was in Pet Supermarket a few days ago, they had a ball python who was extremely dehydrated and had partial shed stuck to him.  I like that chain stores bring exposure to the idea of getting a snake, but it's so sad when places so clearly cannot care for them.  Seeing the snake, you can't help but want to rescue it, but purchasing it just enables them to do the same to a new one.  I'm fortunate that where I live (Raleigh, NC) we have a mom and pop-type pet store specializing in snakes.  I think that one of the best aspects of buying from a local breeder means if you have a problem or concern about the snake you purchased, you have someone to go back to for assistance.  Buying from a chain store means not only are you not sure what you're getting, but also you're not sure what assistance you can receive after the fact.

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## bmack

It absolutely depends on the store. I have gotten 2 ball pythons from Petsmart and one corn snake from Petco. All 3 animals appeared in good health and I haven't had any issue with them being sick or mite infested. The prices seemed fine to me since I got all mine on sale. Even normal prices from a breeder though would probably be about the same with shipping thrown in. Each individual store from both chains is different. Some have been neat(for a chain store) while others aren't incredibly well done.

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## m3gz

Ok, I know this is an old thread but I'm new here, and I just bought a (half price, $39) ball python from petsmart last night. It must vary from store to store, because the girl who helped me to set up the snake's kit was super helpful, admitted she was afraid of snakes and still made 100% sure I was able and ready to take on the responsibility of said cuddly creature. The snake (now named Hecate) is the sweetest thing I've ever held, and I'm not usually a snake person. More of a rat person. Hecate was bought as a gift for my fiance (knowing full well I would be the one taking care of her, no worries) and I know he is going to absolutely adore her. The girl was even nice enough to take my panicked phone call right before closing because the snake was curled around the tanks thermometer! (yes i know i'm silly but she was throwing off the tanks readings). She seems completely healthy, I spent all day yesterday going over forums, and care guides, and blogs, (continuing to do so now, obviously). In truth this is a petsmart I would love to work at, I walked around while I waited for someone able to help me with the python and every animal seemed active, healthy, and no cage was over crowded. Not even the fish!!! Which i have never seen at a chain pet store.

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## Craiga 01453

From what I understand, quality can vary drastically from one location to another.  It, sadly, depends greatly on the management of that particular store.  Unfortunately, if you bought your entire set-up there, that day, you're probably in for lots and lots of headaches. First off, they are a business, in business to SELL to the consumer. You will quickly find that most of the equipment they sell there will need to be upgraded because it's junk. Also, are you running a thermostat to monitor your heating equipment? I could be wrong, but I believe most chain store don't even sell them.
You very well could have gotten a great snake, but just because it's not biting or trying to tag you doesn't mean it's healthy.  Did you check the animal over for visible health?
Don't be discouraged if you run into some headaches, just be prepared. This forum is great and people are truly here to help.  The love of the animals is top-priority, and that shows in the members willingness to share their time and knowledge.
Good luck with your new snake!!!

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## m3gz

The only problem Iv'e had so far is the girl sold me the wrong tank clips, it might have been because I was badgering her about the pythons feeding schedule. I did ask about her health, and was told she eats regularly, is very active (proven since I brought her home) and a friendly reptile. I looked Hecate over, she has no weird spots on her, her eyes are clear, the only problem is shes is really quite strong. Which, when i replace the clips, will not be a problem (I hope) =D I really like this local Petsmart, and I don't normally say that about chain pet shops. There was a really nice pet shop in Ohio, by Wooster, but I think they got shut down because the woman running it got overwhelmed.
Edit: Forgot to mention, yes she had me pick out a decent thermometer =D

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## Craiga 01453

> The only problem Iv'e had so far is the girl sold me the wrong tank clips, it might have been because I was badgering her about the pythons feeding schedule. I did ask about her health, and was told she eats regularly, is very active (proven since I brought her home) and a friendly reptile. I looked Hecate over, she has no weird spots on her, her eyes are clear, the only problem is shes is really quite strong. Which, when i replace the clips, will not be a problem (I hope) =D I really like this local Petsmart, and I don't normally say that about chain pet shops. There was a really nice pet shop in Ohio, by Wooster, but I think they got shut down because the woman running it got overwhelmed.
> Edit: Forgot to mention, yes she had me pick out a decent thermometer =D



Ok, the wrong clips is an easy fix.  Is the thermometer digital with a probe?  What about a hygrometer? Thermostat? Temp gun? 
Unfortunately, active in the store is not a good indicator. Those animals are stressed from poor husbandry, high-traffic, no hides (a half log is not a good hide for a BP), etc... so they tend to be active because they can't find a spot they feel safe in.
I'm guessing this is a juvenile BP, which means she will get MUCH, MUCH stronger.
What size prey has she been eating? What did they sell you for prey? When did she eat last? Has she refused meals?

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_Kira_ (03-24-2017),_rock_ (03-24-2017)

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## m3gz

She's a lot less than 2 feet long, the thermometer reads both humidity and temperature (when shes not curled around it...) its the one that sticks to the inside of the tank, I've been looking into other potential necessaries and a temp gun did come up, I've actually got a notepad list going at the moment haha. She has a daytime/nighttime lamp, water dish, hidey log, (which she finally decided she liked once she shoved it back against the tank wall) and aspen bedding. The girl told me she was fed yesterday and she eats one mouse a week. She handed me a copy of their feeding schedule, which was helpful, and as for their tanks there she had to dig for the snake to see if she was still in there. LOTS of fake plants, when i walked up i was like "Dang, She sold already." lol They were out of the mice and told me to come back tomorrow (which it looks like id have to do anyway, thanks to those clips) but she said shes been on a diet of frozen arctic pinkie mice. She really is quite a small snake, I have no idea how shes getting the stuff off of her tank. The other thing on my to-get list tomorrow is a heat mat, since they inconveniently forgot to tell me about it. Possibly a different hidey hole since she wasnt too fond of the log. I DID get another container in which to feed her since they recommended i not do it in her normal habitat. Not sure if that was just their way of making me spend an extra 20 or not but meh, if it helps her its worth it. 

Sorry for the long reply, she escaped again.

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## predatorkeeper87

> She's a lot less than 2 feet long, the thermometer reads both humidity and temperature (when shes not curled around it...) its the one that sticks to the inside of the tank, I've been looking into other potential necessaries and a temp gun did come up, I've actually got a notepad list going at the moment haha. She has a daytime/nighttime lamp, water dish, hidey log, (which she finally decided she liked once she shoved it back against the tank wall) and aspen bedding. The girl told me she was fed yesterday and she eats one mouse a week. She handed me a copy of their feeding schedule, which was helpful, and as for their tanks there she had to dig for the snake to see if she was still in there. LOTS of fake plants, when i walked up i was like "Dang, She sold already." lol They were out of the mice and told me to come back tomorrow (which it looks like id have to do anyway, thanks to those clips) but she said shes been on a diet of frozen arctic pinkie mice. She really is quite a small snake, I have no idea how shes getting the stuff off of her tank. The other thing on my to-get list tomorrow is a heat mat, since they inconveniently forgot to tell me about it. Possibly a different hidey hole since she wasnt too fond of the log. I DID get another container in which to feed her since they recommended i not do it in her normal habitat. Not sure if that was just their way of making me spend an extra 20 or not but meh, if it helps her its worth it. 
> 
> Sorry for the long reply, she escaped again.


Ok let me try and make this as headache-free as I can for you.  You are a new owner so I understand listening to the employee with your first snake, but she sold ya down the river unfortunately....

Those thermometers they sell are analog, and worthless. They are off by as bad as 10-12 degrees all the time.  You need a good digital thermometer, and acurite makes a few that measure the humidity as well.  They need to be digital in order to be fairly accurate.   

A pinkie mouse for even a newborn BP is bordering on way too small.  Your snake will be on rat pups sooner rather than later so you need to ditch going to that store and go somewhere that will sell you frozen rats.  most petsmarts/petcos have frozen rats at an OUTRAGEOUS price and will not sell you live animals for food.

A light is ok initially but you'll want to look into getting a thermostat (spyder robotics and reptile basics both have good ones) and an undertank heater, one of the stick on ones will work but you NEED a thermostat with any heat source.  Like I said those stick on thermometers you have are useless and the temp is most likely way higher than it should be.

As stated above an active BP is generally not a good sign unless its in the evening.  They are nocturnal, they shouldn't be roaming their enclosures in the day time ever.  "A hiding ball is a happy ball".

BP's like a hide on both the hot side and cool side of their tank.  They shouldn't have to choose between safety and thermo regulating.  Hot side should be right around 90 degrees, and the ambient and cool sides should be hovering around 80ish degrees.

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_Kira_ (03-24-2017),PitOnTheProwl (03-24-2017),_rock_ (03-24-2017)

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## Craiga 01453

> She's a lot less than 2 feet long, the thermometer reads both humidity and temperature (when shes not curled around it...) its the one that sticks to the inside of the tank, I've been looking into other potential necessaries and a temp gun did come up, I've actually got a notepad list going at the moment haha. She has a daytime/nighttime lamp, water dish, hidey log, (which she finally decided she liked once she shoved it back against the tank wall) and aspen bedding. The girl told me she was fed yesterday and she eats one mouse a week. She handed me a copy of their feeding schedule, which was helpful, and as for their tanks there she had to dig for the snake to see if she was still in there. LOTS of fake plants, when i walked up i was like "Dang, She sold already." lol They were out of the mice and told me to come back tomorrow (which it looks like id have to do anyway, thanks to those clips) but she said shes been on a diet of frozen arctic pinkie mice. She really is quite a small snake, I have no idea how shes getting the stuff off of her tank. The other thing on my to-get list tomorrow is a heat mat, since they inconveniently forgot to tell me about it. Possibly a different hidey hole since she wasnt too fond of the log. I DID get another container in which to feed her since they recommended i not do it in her normal habitat. Not sure if that was just their way of making me spend an extra 20 or not but meh, if it helps her its worth it. 
> 
> Sorry for the long reply, she escaped again.


Yeah, unfortunately, they sold you some stuff you don't need, and didn't sell you some of the stuff you need. Turns out the girl wasn't as good as you thought. A UTH is far better than the day/night lights. BPs don't like light, so there shouldn't be a bright light on her all day to keep her warm. Day Lights are great for cleaning, temporary viewing, etc... but I would switch to a UTH asap, but ON A THERMOSTAT.  The UTH's can create extreme hot spots and can burn, or overheat and kill snakes.  Depending on ambient room temps, a night bulb or CHE will be better. Lights also drain humidity drastically. Depending where you live, this can be a pain in the butt.  You'll need a new thermometer/hygrometer too, a decent one with probes isn't much more at walmart than what you paid for the dial one that is extremely inaccurate.  You need to measure the ambient temp, as well as surface temps. BPs spend almost their entire lives on the surface and some like to burrow, so the surface temp is extremely important. A temp gun is very important for this. 

Aspen bedding is ok, but you'll prob want to switch when you buy your next bag. Aspen doesn't hold humidity well and molds easily. 

I would also grab a kitchen scale from Walmart or something. Get one with a good size plate, you'll probably need to put your snake in a Tupperware or something to get a good reading. Also make sure the display won't be blocked so you can read it.

Next, pinkies are too small for your snake.  Depending on the weight of your snake, I'm thinking at least Small Adult mice would be appropriate.  When I took my BP home he was 20" and 128 grams and eating Lg adult mice.

Two hides are best, one on the hotspot created by your UTH, the other on the cool side. The logs are too open for them, they prefer to be more secure, so one with a single opening is best, preferably offset, so the snake can be almost completely under cover.  You also want one that fits your BP.  The tighter the better, within reason. Obviously, the snake should fit comfortably, not be scraping their scales getting in and out, etc...but they do prefer a snug, comfortable fit.

Lastly, return the other container. Feed your BP IN her enclosure.

I guess advice on buying a snake from a girl who is afraid of snakes isn't a great idea. She clearly isn't educated on snakes and is just there to sell. Sorry

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_Kira_ (03-24-2017)

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## m3gz

In other words, i got screwed on the equipment? (on a sidenote i spent 150$ on equipment alone, Hecate was 39$) The heat mat (under tank heater) is on my list for tomorrow, as well as a heat gun. I'll add a digi thermometer too. Are you sure about the mice though? from what i was reading on the many many care lists it should be the same size as her diameter, and that seems about right for her size. As for nocturnal that makes sense, since its like 4 am here lol I didn't read anything in the care sheets about nocturnal, thank you for that! Been on sooooo many blogs/fact sheets/Python Ebooks my heads spinning haha. 


12$ on thermometer, 5$ on clips, 70$ on day/night light kit, 12$ on hidey log, 13$ on aspen bedding, 60$ on 20g Tank forgot that extra 20 for the "feeding tank" :/ 
ok so make that 172$ on equipment alone. Did i seriously get shafted? She seemed genuinely concerned about the snakes wellfare even though she admitted she was scared of them. She wouldnt even touch her, she lifted her out on a branch so i could take her....

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## m3gz

i do have a kitchen scale, i cook a lot, i can go weigh her really quick. shes really quite small though

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## predatorkeeper87

> In other words, i got screwed on the equipment? (on a sidenote i spent 150$ on equipment alone, Hecate was 39$) The heat mat (under tank heater) is on my list for tomorrow, as well as a heat gun. I'll add a digi thermometer too. Are you sure about the mice though? from what i was reading on the many many care lists it should be the same size as her diameter, and that seems about right for her size. As for nocturnal that makes sense, since its like 4 am here lol I didn't read anything in the care sheets about nocturnal, thank you for that! Been on sooooo many blogs/fact sheets/Python Ebooks my heads spinning haha. 
> 
> 
> 12$ on thermometer, 5$ on clips, 70$ on day/night light kit, 12$ on hidey log, 13$ on aspen bedding, 60$ on 20g Tank forgot that extra 20 for the "feeding tank" :/ 
> ok so make that 172$ on equipment alone. Did i seriously get shafted? She seemed genuinely concerned about the snakes wellfare even though she admitted she was scared of them. She wouldnt even touch her, she lifted her out on a branch so i could take her....


ya...it probably isn't any real fault of the employee's, but I'm sure she is instructed to sell snake buyers a "list" of things.  

the thermometer like I said is junk if its the analog type which since its stick on I'm guessing its a zoomed analog temp/humidity one lol.

BP's don't need light, ever haha.  Mine get the light that shines in the window during the day, that's it.  They are in a rack system and perfectly content.  

The logs aren't great because they don't provide enough security for a BP.  They like to be snug inside a hide, tight on all sides.  My biggest girl at 1100 grams still shoves herself into a reptile basics medium hide haha.  You can make a decent DIY hide out of a solid color plastic dish from the dollar store, cut a half circle into it for her to get into, make sure the edges aren't sharp.

you can buy aspen bedding at tractor supply for 9 bucks, for a BALE, not a tiny pet store bag lol.  

she railed you on a separate feeding tank lol, it stresses BP's to be moved to eat, no need to move them, lay a paper towel down on the substrate in their tank and feed them on that.

Don't take this to heart at all, you are a new owner and shes an employee at a huge chain store told to sell that stuff, its not your fault at all. 

I would return the feeding tank, and anything else they will take back that isn't essential after you get all the stuff you need from the lists craig and myself provided.  



Check out reptilebasics website, you can see the type of hides she'll like, as well as heating options.

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## Craiga 01453

Yeah, you got shafted. The girl was just doing her job, and unfortunately, it's you who paid for it. Let's be honest though.  I know NOTHING about plumbing or electricity. I won't touch it.  Would you trust me to set up your plumbing or electrical job in your house? Prob not.

A UTH is a great start, but PLEASE don't forget the thermostat. The last thing you want is a cooked snake.  Also, you'll need the temp gun to get your surface temps dialed in correctly.  This takes some time and some tweaking.  This is why it's best to have the enclosure dialed in before the animal comes home. 

And yes, PredatorKeeper and I are BOTH sure about the size of the prey. The width rule is a ballpark guide but it applies to the THICKEST part of the snake.  You'll be amazed at how easily they can eat prey that seems big to a newbie.  Another rule is that the prey should be approx. 10% of the snakes body weight at this stage.  Your snake is probably over 160 grams, which probably means small adult mice (12-17 grams). BPs generally start on hoppers (8-11 grams) for their first few meals. Pinkies weigh about 2 grams.

Definitely a learning experience.

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## m3gz

I very much so appreciate all the support and help from the people here. However....my kitchen scale (which has never been wrong, i use it daily) says she is less than an ounce....i do not see how that's possible even for a snake her size. They said she just ate yesterday too. Like, i just triple checked her weight. It irritated her pretty bad because while i was trying to check her she wanted to go check out my plants.

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## m3gz

Because of her weight should i be worried??

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## Craiga 01453

grab a tupperware or something she will fit in that fits on the scale. Switch the scale to grams and tare (zero) the scale with the empty container on it. Then put your snake in the container to get an accurate weight in grams.

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## predatorkeeper87

> Because of her weight should i be worried??



If she is less than 28 grams...she should probably be close to death.  can you get a pic of her?  theres no way that's right, fresh out of the egg they are like 65-90 grams....

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## Craiga 01453

P.S. We are happy to help. We were ALL new once upon a time, and many of us learned the hard way too. I have learned to do extensive research, put in the due diligence and have the enclosure ready BEFORE I bring the animal home, regardless of what kind of animal. I have a cat, 4 ferrets, 5 snakes, an African Fire Skink and two 55 gallon fish tanks. So they keep me busy and I love spending time with my animals.

Don't get discouraged, it's a learning experience.  It can be ironed out fairly quickly and you will have many years to enjoy your snake.  :Good Job:

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## m3gz

she weighs 37 and some change, and i just got the crap bit out of me. which is strange, she was sweet as sugar all day. I use my kitchen scale on herbs to be exact, it has never been wrong so far. I didn't really think about it because i was looking for surface flaws but she is scale and bones. let me try to get a better picture of her, the only one i have is of her on my arm and its my avi.

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## Craiga 01453

For prey reference 

Sent from my SM-J700T1 using Tapatalk

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_rock_ (03-24-2017)

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## Craiga 01453

...something must be up with your scale. 37 grams?????? seems impossible

She's probably stressed as heck and that would explain the biting. Prob best to get her in a pillowcase, secured and in her enclosure.  Leave her there until you have the right stuff and we will move on once we get there. Don't sweat the scale thing for now. Let's just get her feeling warm and secure for now...

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## m3gz

i just tested my scale with a pre-measured 500mg pill, and it was spot on....and i just got bit AGAIN just for putting a piece of cardboard next to her for measure purposes.... my scale is used for measuring even tiny amounts of medicinal herbs...

http://i.imgur.com/GzFNm5R.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/xtvSSmB.jpg


i cant tell which ones clearer....sorry....

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## Craiga 01453

Does your scale measure in grams? 
The mg of a pill has to do with the amount of medicine in it, not the weight of the pill.

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## m3gz

mg as in weight, and yes, it goes up to 2lbs from mg-g-lb

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## m3gz

Please tell me i did not just go getting attached to an animal i'm going to lose....Her mood shift is worrying too, im not joking when i say she was the sweetest thing ever this afternoon.

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## Craiga 01453

> Please tell me i did not just go getting attached to an animal i'm going to lose....Her mood shift is worrying too, im not joking when i say she was the sweetest thing ever this afternoon.



why would you lose her?

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## m3gz

Sorry, panicking just a bit, i have an anxiety disorder. And google is most definitely not helping.

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## predatorkeeper87

> Please tell me i did not just go getting attached to an animal i'm going to lose....Her mood shift is worrying too, im not joking when i say she was the sweetest thing ever this afternoon.


I would, if I were you, go out and get hopper mice.  If you can't find them, I would get 3-4 pinks, and have them ready. 

Put the snake back in her enclosure, and let her be for a while.

I would start trying to offer some food either tomorrow or the next day.  Don't force the issue...if she doesn't want to eat don't pester her, just heat up the pinkie or hopper and see if she'll take it.  Then if she does, try another one.  I'd feed 2 pinkies if that's all you can get every 6-7 days if she'll take two.  You don't want to over feed her but if her weight is correct she is definitely way small.

I cannot view links at work but others who can will chime in on the condition of the snake.

She's defensive striking out of stress.  Just let her be for a while.

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## m3gz

Poor thing T~T i wasnt trying to stress her i was just trying to get her weight. Which is correct, i tested my scale again on a 1lb thing of meat. So you think they lied about her feeding schedule???

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## predatorkeeper87

> Poor thing T~T i wasnt trying to stress her i was just trying to get her weight. Which is correct, i tested my scale again on a 1lb thing of meat. So you think they lied about her feeding schedule???


no but its petsmart and petco policy to only feed pinkies from what I understand, so while she may have been eating, she wasn't eating NEARLY enough for a BP.

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## m3gz

Adding those to list then, about how many should i pick up for the next couple weeks you think?

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## predatorkeeper87

and it isn't your fault, you are new to the snake game.  BP's, as well as most snakes really, don't show affection.  They tolerate us and come to learn that we are giant moving heat trees that drop rats from the sky.  They eventually grow to tolerate the holdings and general humanly things we do, but can still become easily stressed outside of their preferred environment which in this case in her tank.  BP's especially are nervous little noodles.

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## predatorkeeper87

> Adding those to list then, about how many should i pick up for the next couple weeks you think?


I would have a month or two supply on hand.  Rodents freeze well if packaged right.  Do you have any small pet shops or reptile shops around you? Buying from them is much preferred as I'd hate to see you spend 30 dollars on like 8 pinkies lol especially if she starts refusing meals and you have to throw them out.  Petsmart's frozen rodents are so ridiculously priced.

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## m3gz

I really didn't handle her much other than when i set up her tank, and tried to get her weight...they said give her 3-4 days to adjust before trying to get her used to me. I hate seeing any animal in pain  :Sad:  is her belly supposed to feel bony btw? i just made it past page 23 of "ball python care and health" google search

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## m3gz

There is one, but you should see the reviews on it...from what i hear their animals all die within a month or two....its sad really

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## predatorkeeper87

> I really didn't handle her much other than when i set up her tank, and tried to get her weight...they said give her 3-4 days to adjust before trying to get her used to me. I hate seeing any animal in pain  is her belly supposed to feel bony btw? i just made it past page 23 of "ball python care and health" google search



when you hold them they should feel like...a tube of muscle haha.  they should feel pretty firm in your hands.  


I don't want to throw another suggestion at you as I can see you are getting overwhelmed here but you also might want to look into getting a sterelite tub for her down the line rather than a glass tank.  I know you just spent the cash on all the stuff but the reason I suggest a 10 dollar plastic tub instead is the ease of humidity and heat requirements compared to a screen top tank.

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## Craiga 01453

You're not doing anything wrong, you simply don't know. Again, we were ALL new once. Try to take a deep breath, your snake will be fine.  As Predator Keeper said, just get her in her enclosure and let her be.  Don't touch the enclosure until it's time to make some husbandry changes and/or feed her. BPs are an extremely nervous species of snake and do stress easily, which would be why she is striking. It is simply defensive at this point due to stress. She will mellow out pretty quickly. 
Try to get a few meals in her before handling her again.  Obviously, if you need to move her to make adjustments in her enclosure you can, just keep it minimal.
Please don't stress yourself out, you're doing fine.  You're at least on here asking questions and you seem to be eager to take advice and make things right for your snake. I truly believe your snake is in good hands and will thrive in your care once you've got the kinks worked out and you're a bit more educated.  Just keep reading, keep learning, and don't be afraid to ask questions. We are here to help you and your animal.

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## m3gz

I was told to go with the glass one because it gets really humid in the area we have her, im baking/cooking almost constantly its almost a sauna haha. But you think she'll be ok???

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## m3gz

I appreciate you guys' help so much, I've had all kinds of companions and they thrive, but i haven't had a pet with a longer life span than 5 years, other than my dog of course. You guys (obviously) know FAR more than i do, so i would be rather foolish not to listen lol.

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## predatorkeeper87

> I was told to go with the glass one because it gets really humid in the area we have her, im baking/cooking almost constantly its almost a sauna haha. But you think she'll be ok???


glass can work don't get me wrong but that coupled with a light instead of a UTH is going to crush your humidity regardless of how humid your home is lol.  Cover 3/4 of the top with foil to help with the humidity.  She will be fine, take some deep breathes and let her be for a bit haha.

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## Craiga 01453

Honestly, it's my pleasure.  I enjoy helping. I am FAR from the most knowledgeable person on this forum, but I have years of experience.  I just recently got back into keeping snakes after many years away. A lot has changed in the snake game since the late 90's/2000 when I re-housed my snakes back then (rough patch in my life that lasted about 12 more years after that). 

Your snake will be fine, and you will too. It is very clear that you are indeed concerned and want what's best for the snake. Keep asking, keep learning and all will be fine. 

You'll notice some of the more experienced keepers with more knowledge will start chiming in too, they're probably just starting to wake up (it's 8:22 here in MA, been up since 3:30, couldn't sleep, uggh) so the east coasters will probably be on soon and the rest will follow as the morning hours approach the different time zones.

I highly suggest reading some of the "stickies" on this forum, much better than most of the crap you'll find on goggle searches. Anybody can post on sites google will link you to, but the stickies on here are written by educated snake keepers and only become stickies with admin approval (I believe that's kinda how it works anyway).

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## predatorkeeper87

> There is one, but you should see the reviews on it...from what i hear their animals all die within a month or two....its sad really


well..I'd go in and ask if they have frozen hopper mice or even rat pinks.  They may be a bad shop but if they have frozen rats cheaper its always a better idea.

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## predatorkeeper87

> I appreciate you guys' help so much, I've had all kinds of companions and they thrive, but i haven't had a pet with a longer life span than 5 years, other than my dog of course. You guys (obviously) know FAR more than i do, so i would be rather foolish not to listen lol.


believe me I was in your shoes with more than one type of animal in the past haha.  BP's are easy to keep once you nail down the husbandry requirements for them.  It all seems overwhelming but soon enough you'll be waking up checking temps and humidity without a second thought haha.  You'll start to be excited when you don't see your snake for days too hahaha.

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Craiga 01453 (03-24-2017)

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## m3gz

Been up all night as well, watching the escape artist. And chatting with you guys trying to figure out just how badly i got screwed  :Razz:  lol

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## predatorkeeper87

> Honestly, it's my pleasure.  I enjoy helping. I am FAR from the most knowledgeable person on this forum, but I have years of experience.  I just recently got back into keeping snakes after many years away. A lot has changed in the snake game since the late 90's/2000 when I re-housed my snakes back then (rough patch in my life that lasted about 12 more years after that). 
> 
> Your snake will be fine, and you will too. It is very clear that you are indeed concerned and want what's best for the snake. Keep asking, keep learning and all will be fine. 
> 
> You'll notice some of the more experienced keepers with more knowledge will start chiming in too, they're probably just starting to wake up (it's 8:22 here in MA, been up since 3:30, couldn't sleep, uggh) so the east coasters will probably be on soon and the rest will follow as the morning hours approach the different time zones.
> 
> I highly suggest reading some of the "stickies" on this forum, much better than most of the crap you'll find on goggle searches. Anybody can post on sites google will link you to, but the stickies on here are written by educated snake keepers and only become stickies with admin approval (I believe that's kinda how it works anyway).


I feel ya...PA here been up since 430 for work lol.  

also agreed, read the stickies.  great info on them.

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## m3gz

I know you said the little thermometers dont work right, but should it be hovering at ~70% humidity?

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## Craiga 01453

...oh, and as far as glass goes, you will be fine with glass. All my snakes are in glass and are all healthy and doing well (my Cal King just shed a few minutes ago, perfect one-piece shed).  However, I do plan to switch to PVC when I can. Unfortunately, it's a money thing right now.  I've never had a PVC enclosure, but based on everything I've read, they are awesome. I personally like having the display style enclosures, so a tub and rack system doesn't fit my personal needs.

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## m3gz

I also read all the ball python fact sheets and stickies on here already haha. have to do something to stay awake  :Razz:

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Craiga 01453 (03-24-2017)

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## m3gz

The original kit i looked at was acrylic but i haddddd to listen to the girl afraid of snakes. Had a bunch of the bedding and heating supplies in it too.

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## predatorkeeper87

> Been up all night as well, watching the escape artist. And chatting with you guys trying to figure out just how badly i got screwed  lol


lol it wasn't a bad time, you got your normal bp for 39 bucks, not a bad deal.  The other stuff...well that's petsmarts fault for being too good at taking advantage of new pet owners.  I'd suggest returning what you can to be honest, like those dumb dumb dumb temp gauges haha I hate that they push those on people...that's a quick way to ruin an animal if the person just uses them and doesn't reach out to experienced people for help.

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## Craiga 01453

> I know you said the little thermometers dont work right, but should it be hovering at ~70% humidity?


 50-60% is good, bumping up to 70% is good for when they are in shed though

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## predatorkeeper87

> The original kit i looked at was acrylic but i haddddd to listen to the girl afraid of snakes. Had a bunch of the bedding and heating supplies in it too.


I'd wager that was an exoterra setup probably.  Don't feel bad they are roughly the same as just using a glass tank...no better at holding humidity or temps at all.  You'll be fine lol.

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## predatorkeeper87

> I know you said the little thermometers dont work right, but should it be hovering at ~70% humidity?


my guess is you are probably pushing somewhere about 85-90% if that gauge says 70%.  I've done comparisons with those and real digital gauges, the analog ones you have are almost guaranteed to be 10-12 degrees lower than the actual temp and humidity.

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## m3gz

I just like acrylic because its lighter than glass, easier to clean. Also....how does a snake escape a sock? I dont even understand whats going on at this point. I just found the little critter under my chair.

- - - Updated - - -

Ouch, is that too much humidity?

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## Craiga 01453

Yeah, return what you can.  That's what the employees are trained to do. Sell, sell, sell. They will get you the basics, but not the "right" basics. 
Don't beat yourself up, and don't overwhelm yourself reading too much stuff. It's awesome that you read all the stickies already.  I almost want to tell you to forget everything else you read, but that would be irresponsible. It's good to soak up as much knowledge as you can, just be careful to make sure you're learning from credible sources. Not everything on the world-wide-interweb is quality information.  After all, Abraham Lincoln was quoted saying "Don't believe half of what you read on the internet."

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_rock_ (03-24-2017)

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## m3gz

XD nice try on my tired brain. But yea, i learned pretty fast to take what the internet says with a grain of salt, listening to a "rat breeding professional" almost had me kill my first pet rat.

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## predatorkeeper87

> I just like acrylic because its lighter than glass, easier to clean. Also....how does a snake escape a sock? I dont even understand whats going on at this point. I just found the little critter under my chair.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> Ouch, is that too much humidity?



haha they can get out, into or around anything you throw at them.  they are masters of it.  I had one sneak out of his tub to crawl up behind my female's tub.  Only found him when I tried to slide her tub back in and hit major resistance lol.


it is too high but don't freak out, it's not going to kill the snake in a matter of days or anything lol.  mine routinely spill their water and push the humidity to 99% lol.

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## Craiga 01453

> XD nice try on my tired brain. But yea, i learned pretty fast to take what the internet says with a grain of salt, listening to a "rat breeding professional" almost had me kill my first pet rat.


Hahahaha, gotta be able to have a sense of humor!!!

Honestly though, just get your girl contained and safe for now and get yourself some rest too. Try the sock again, just wrap a rubber band around the open end or something.  You might want to rename this snake Houdini or something too, hahahaha!!!

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## m3gz

Oh great so i have another Rai on my hands. That rat was Houdini reincarnated. Good to know about the humidity, ill see if i cant get it lower. Started bread since i was up anyway so kitchen is like a sweat lodge.

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## m3gz

i knotted the sock in the first place @~@ im not sure how she untied it. I hope she didnt ruin my favorite bulbasaur socks xD

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## Craiga 01453

If they can fit their head through an opening, their whole body can follow. And you'd be amazed how they can fit their heads into some tiny openings!

These are simply AMAZING animals!! Just wait to you have everything worked out and you can enjoy her once she's comfortable and acting "normal".  It's fascinating to watch them explore, watch them eat, shed, etc.... The whole thing is some of mother nature's best work in my opinion.  How these animals have survived thousands of years is awesome!!  I mean, they have no limbs!!! Wait til you see the whole shedding process. And if you're lucky enough to actually see her shed, it's nature at it's finest!!

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## m3gz

In truth Hecate was going to be a gift for my fiance (knowing id be the one caring for her) but i think im going to enjoy it more XD

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_rock_ (03-24-2017)

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## m3gz

Ok, I know its a total pain, but what i need to return and replace with other things are the lamps for a heating pad, the crappy thermometer thats telling me its 70% humidity even in the back room for a digital one, and a different hidey hole + mice, am i missing anything? Because honestly my brain is fried like an egg on a florida sidewalk

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## Craiga 01453

> Ok, I know its a total pain, but what i need to return and replace with other things are the lamps for a heating pad, the crappy thermometer thats telling me its 70% humidity even in the back room for a digital one, and a different hidey hole + mice, am i missing anything? Because honestly my brain is fried like an egg on a florida sidewalk



I'm sure your brain is fried and your stress level is near maxed-out. Can't say that I blame you, it's been an adventurous, long day/night for you. It gets easier, I promise.  You may still need a light or a CHE, depending on the ambient temps in the room where your snake is kept. I still use a night time light for the winter months because the UTH isn't enough for ambient temps to get high enough, it gets my hotspot where I want it and the light takes care of the ambient temps. I would get two hides, a lot of people like two identical hides. I personally don't have two identical in any of my enclosures, but I always provide two and my snakes use them both regularly. 
As far as mice, I would try to find some frozen hoppers and buy a pack (PetSmart usually has Artctic brand in 6 packs) and start with that. Once your snake gets big enough that it makes sense to buy bulk, I would definitely do that if you have some freezer space. Just to give you an example, I paid almost $3/lg adult mouse at PetSmart until I bought bulk and paid $25 for 50 mice!!! That's 50 cents each as apposed to almost $3 each!!!

Also, PLEASE don't forget the thermostat!! VERY important to not fry your snake.  You will want surface temps to stay below 95, some heat mats will hit 140 if not on a thermostat. And get a temp gun, this way you can check your surface temps accurately, get your thermostat dialed in and then just check daily. It takes time, patience and adjusting, but once it's dialed in you just need to check it daily to make sure nothing is malfunctioning.

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## m3gz

thing is, i had a heat lamp, she just said it wasn't good enough :/  "you need a DAYLIGHT bulb as well as a NIGHTTIME bulb, or you could seriously hurt your snake"

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## predatorkeeper87

> Ok, I know its a total pain, but what i need to return and replace with other things are the lamps for a heating pad, the crappy thermometer thats telling me its 70% humidity even in the back room for a digital one, and a different hidey hole + mice, am i missing anything? Because honestly my brain is fried like an egg on a florida sidewalk


Yes to the heating pad, definitely yes to those thermometers, if you can get a different hide that is closed off except for the entrance for go it, if not just block the end of the log with something that isn't see-through.  yes to mice.

You NEED a thermostat for all heating devices.  No way around it.  those heat mats can hit well over 100 degrees in under 5 minutes, that will burn your danger noodle quick fast and in a hurry.  you can use a light dimmer from Lowes in the mean time until you get one, as petco and petsmart generally don't carry thermostats despite selling the mats.  

on amazon they sell jumpstart hydrofarm thermostats cheap.  These are on/off thermostats that can or can't be reliable lol.  they work in a pinch and will definitely work in the meantime.  

I suggest either checking out spyder robotics or reptile basics.  Both the Herpstat's and VE's are great thermostats and you can get them fairly cheap with the lower end models. 

the herpstat into and intro+ are between 100-110 dollars.  sounds pricey but for that money you won't have to worry about burning your snake or your house.

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## predatorkeeper87

> thing is, i had a heat lamp, she just said it wasn't good enough :/  "you need a DAYLIGHT bulb as well as a NIGHTTIME bulb, or you could seriously hurt your snake"


some people believe BP's require sunlight exposure (UVB) like a lot of other reptiles.  This is simply not the case as they can go their entire lives in the wild never having seen direct sunlight.  I had this argument with an "exotics" vet the other week...he more or less shamed me for not having a UVB on my ball python, and I simply told him they are nocturnal, there is zero need for one lol.

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## m3gz

yea i was looking at that ultratherm thing and the thermostats they have listed with it, its pretty worth it. And tbh i didnt know snakes were nocturnal lol. So...using this as notepad since its here, mice, heatpad, thermometers, thermostat. Why do i feel like im forgetting something important?

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## Craiga 01453

> some people believe BP's require sunlight exposure (UVB) like a lot of other reptiles.  This is simply not the case as they can go their entire lives in the wild never having seen direct sunlight.  I had this argument with an "exotics" vet the other week...he more or less shamed me for not having a UVB on my ball python, and I simply told him they are nocturnal, there is zero need for one lol.



If BPs required sunlight, why do they spend almost their ENTIRE lives buried and hiding during the day, sometimes for several days at a time?!?!?!?!  I can't believe a vet told you that, especially an "exotics" vet!!!  That is reptile 101 in vet school, or even just for reptile keepers. m3gz learned that snakes are nocturnal in one night of cramming, this VET couldn't learn atht snakes don't need UVB light in 6 years of school?????

- - - Updated - - -




> yea i was looking at that ultratherm thing and the thermostats they have listed with it, its pretty worth it. And tbh i didnt know snakes were nocturnal lol. So...using this as notepad since its here, mice, heatpad, thermometers, thermostat. Why do i feel like im forgetting something important?


infrared temp gun

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_rock_ (03-24-2017)

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## predatorkeeper87

> If BPs required sunlight, why do they spend almost their ENTIRE lives buried and hiding during the day, sometimes for several days at a time?!?!?!?!  I can't believe a vet told you that, especially an "exotics" vet!!!  That is reptile 101 in vet school, or even just for reptile keepers. m3gz learned that snakes are nocturnal in one night of cramming, this VET couldn't learn atht snakes don't need UVB light in 6 years of school?????
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> 
> 
> infrared temp gun


what I think happened was he pursued an exotics portion of veterinary care on his own after going through vet school, kind of a general overview more than species specific...I have no doubts he's a good vet, but an exotics vet he ain't lol.

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## m3gz

That and clamps! Thanks xD.....how am i gonna get to the store when she keeps escaping

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## Craiga 01453

> what I think happened was he pursued an exotics portion of veterinary care on his own after going through vet school, kind of a general overview more than species specific...I have no doubts he's a good vet, but an exotics vet he ain't lol.



No, he ain't.  But even a Vet with a common practice should know that. I mean come on. If animals are your life and your livelihood, I would think you would know basics.  And that's pretty basic.  I mean, you have a practice, you see "exotic" pets, know a little something. It's a BALL PYTHON for crying out loud!! The most common pet snake in the world!  It's not like I'm showing up with a random Boomslang or some other rare pet snake.

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## Craiga 01453

> That and clamps! Thanks xD.....how am i gonna get to the store when she keeps escaping


Maybe put her in the container she was sold to you in, put that in the enclosure? Depends what they sent her home with you in.

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## predatorkeeper87

> No, he ain't.  But even a Vet with a common practice should know that. I mean come on. If animals are your life and your livelihood, I would think you would know basics.  And that's pretty basic.  I mean, you have a practice, you see "exotic" pets, know a little something. It's a BALL PYTHON for crying out loud!! The most common pet snake in the world!  It's not like I'm showing up with a random Boomslang or some other rare pet snake.


believe me lol I wanted to argue with him until he called the police but I tipped my cap, took the antibiotics he gave me as my little BP at the time had a massive eye infection, and left lol.  I found a new guy who while not as thorough as I think I'd like is still miles ahead of the other fellow.  He's at least treated BPs, boas etc and while a little oldschool still knows the species much better.

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Craiga 01453 (03-24-2017)

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## m3gz

Halfway home she wormed her way outta the airholes in their little travel box x.x she was on my neck the rest of the way, freaking out my mother-in-law.



I used to want to be a vet, but im squeamish, and i cant handle seeing an animal die.

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predatorkeeper87 (03-24-2017)

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## predatorkeeper87

> That and clamps! Thanks xD.....how am i gonna get to the store when she keeps escaping


I would put her in a tote with a locking lid if you have one, with a blanket or something to hide under.  Then stack something extremely heavy on it.

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## m3gz

come to think of it, i may have an old box from the coffeepot...dont think theres any holes in it...brb

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## Craiga 01453

I would use a Tupperware or something with a lid that can be sealed. Poke a few pinholes in it if need be... Just saw PredatorKeeper beat me to the punch

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predatorkeeper87 (03-24-2017)

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## m3gz

Just found the perfect thing. its an old reusable beverage pitcher, itll fit her water and her sock and still leave her some room to move around. and it has a screw top with holes already in it from housing rescued mice   =D

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## m3gz

Er....the mice smell wont bother her will it?

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## Craiga 01453

> Just found the perfect thing. its an old reusable beverage pitcher, itll fit her water and her sock and still leave her some room to move around. and it has a screw top with holes already in it from housing rescued mice   =D


Sounds good!!  I would keep it somewhere warm and put a towel over it, just so she feels extra secure.

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## m3gz

Great =D Can't get anywhere till about noon but after that imma go fuss at that one chick if shes still working >~>

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## Craiga 01453

> thing is, i had a heat lamp, she just said it wasn't good enough :/  "you need a DAYLIGHT bulb as well as a NIGHTTIME bulb, or you could seriously hurt your snake"



I would return the other Heat lamp and daylight bulb too. They may give you a hard time about the bulb, but show the purchase was made yesterday and let them know you were sold the wrong stuff by an unqualified sales agent. Keep your original lamp with the night bulb (depending on wattage).  I have Django in a 20 gallon right now with the UTH and a 75 watt night bulb. If your bulb isn't the right wattage they should let you swap it out no problem since you were sold the wrong crap.

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## Craiga 01453

> Great =D Can't get anywhere till about noon but after that imma go fuss at that one chick if shes still working >~>



Hahahaha, I hear ya. Probably not really her fault though. She shouldn't be selling reptiles if she has no knowledge of them, let alone a fear of them. She was probably just doing her job. I would probably say management is to blame, unless of course, she just BS'd you all on her own. They have key codes to the enclosures though, so somebody in management is giving her access to animals she knows nothing about.

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## m3gz

i have a small one that i used to use to keep the ratties warm in winter. Given what you guys have told me, and how well it worked for them, im 98% sure it will be sufficient until i can order that heatpad and then it will  be more than enough =D not only that but with her heat lamp off atm its still 84F over by her tank x.x

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## m3gz

I did feel kinda bad for her when she was so scared she had to hand me Hecate on a branch though....kinda like me and spiders.

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## Craiga 01453

Ok, then you might as well keep the lamp you originally had. It should be sufficient considering the room temp. You may not even need it once the UTH is all set.  Just be sure it can handle the wattage of the bulb, which probably a 50 watt (not too sure on this, have no experience there) would do with your ambient room temps.

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## m3gz

i think its max is 60watt, and i was skeptical about the whole need a powerful heatlamp thing cuz my house runs warm all the time :/ she wouldnt listen...i hate rethinking that cuz the more i think about it the more it feels pushy rather than helpful.

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## m3gz

Wonder if theyre hiring...o-0

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## Craiga 01453

> i think its max is 60watt, and i was skeptical about the whole need a powerful heatlamp thing cuz my house runs warm all the time :/ she wouldnt listen...i hate rethinking that cuz the more i think about it the more it feels pushy rather than helpful.


Yeah, I think they are trained to sell....and I have actually applied to my local one, hoping I could help change/improve their reptile department and possibly the fish department too. But I wasn't hired. Their loss...

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## m3gz

I prolly wouldnt be hired either. Even if their rodent department could seriously use my help. lol

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## Craiga 01453

They're missing out!

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## m3gz

no joke  :Razz:  especially as theyre all in wood chips. BEYOND stupid.

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## Craiga 01453

I was PO'd the other day. I went into my local Petco and noticed they had a green tree python. I was amazed that they had something as "exotic" as a GTP. They had one plant on a reptile carpet. No perch, nothing for the snake to climb on. They are arboreal animals who spent the vast majority of their lives off the ground. This animal was stuck with no choice but the ground

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## m3gz

Thats so sad D= in a situation like that idve prolly bought it just to help it.

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## Craiga 01453

If I had the cash and the OK from the girlfriend I would have thought about it,  but they would have just filled the empty space with another animal

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## m3gz

Yes, but probably not another ground bound thing thats supposed to be free to climb. I hate pet shops, i really do. The animals sit in tiny cages that even the store itself doesnt recommend, and i dont even wanna think about what happens if no one ever buys them.

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## predatorkeeper87

> no joke  especially as theyre all in wood chips. BEYOND stupid.


I keep all 60 of my rats on aspen lol whats wrong with wood chips?

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## m3gz

Well, other than that inhaling the fumes and such from wood chips shortens their life spans by quite a bit, that they can chew and sometimes choke on them, that they get splinters, which can get infected if theyre stubborn little butts about it, absolutely nothing .-.

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## predatorkeeper87

> Well, other than that inhaling the fumes and such from wood chips shortens their life spans by quite a bit, that they can chew and sometimes choke on them, that they get splinters, which can get infected if theyre stubborn little butts about it, absolutely nothing .-.


You are thinking of cedar and non-kiln dried pine.  Aspen is completely fine for the little furry punks.  If Deborah chimes in shes been keeping her breeding stock on kiln dried pine for many many years.

the aspen I use has never given me a spinter, I run my hands through it daily.  As for chewing on it...I've never seen them do that, but I give them plenty of sticks, veggies and fruits to occupy them.

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## m3gz

well if it works for you i guess .-. never seen it end well otherwise. always ends up with some kind of lung infection

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## predatorkeeper87

> well if it works for you i guess .-. never seen it end well otherwise. always ends up with some kind of lung infection


If my rats start keeling over shortly I'll let you know haha.  I'm more concerned about the pair of females that had 30 freakin' babies and now I have to start culling/selling all these dang youngin's haha.  My other pair did great, only 20 haha that was manageable.  the other 10 make a tub so much smaller lol

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## m3gz

Gonna take a wild guess and say you sell as feeders @~@

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## predatorkeeper87

> Gonna take a wild guess and say you sell as feeders @~@


little bit of this, little bit of that haha. I mostly breed for my own snakes, so much cheaper in the long run when I can have 50 rats in the freezer ready to roll after 1.5 months.  I do sell live same sex pairs to people who want well cared for rats as pets, but its mostly my snakes' food source and as I grow the operation into producing 150/week roughly it will be a feeder business on the side.

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## m3gz

annnnnd one of the aspects of snake ownership im not looking forward to x.x i love rats and mice.

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## Craiga 01453

> annnnnd one of the aspects of snake ownership im not looking forward to x.x i love rats and mice.



Was my least favorite part at first too. It gets easier. Then it just becomes routine, as if it's any other meal for any other animal.  But still fascinating to watch!

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## predatorkeeper87

> annnnnd one of the aspects of snake ownership im not looking forward to x.x i love rats and mice.


oh me too, but you have to, I repeat, HAVE TO separate the two loves in your mind.  I love my snakes, and I love my breeding rats, but I cannot get attached to any of the youngin's.  My one breeder male, Benny, waits for me to open the tub so he can practically fly out and run to the top of the rack and play tag with me lol.

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## m3gz

I'm going to have to mentally convince myself im preparing and giving them a piece of chicken. Not even joking.

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## m3gz

I'm not saying i wont do it, as you said i have to, im just glad im doing frozen not live.

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## predatorkeeper87

> I'm not saying i wont do it, as you said i have to, im just glad im doing frozen not live.


pray once your snake addiction fully takes hold that your next one isn't a picky live only feeder then lol.

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## m3gz

ooohhhh no, this is the only snake. im too OCD to have more than one.


it owuld be the equivalent of shooting myself in the foot and going omg this is fun!

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## predatorkeeper87

> ooohhhh no, this is the only snake. im too OCD to have more than one.


ya...every single human on this forum said that at one point. "I swear just one!" haha.

lol its stressful now, but once you get the husbandry and schedules locked in you are going to say wow this is easy...they only eat once every week or 10 days...I can handle 1...2...8 more no issue...

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Craiga 01453 (03-24-2017),Slither Seeker (03-24-2017)

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## m3gz

Other than cost of course. Did my math, can afford Hecate, but i swear one more animal in this house and i will shoot my fiance

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## predatorkeeper87

> Other than cost of course. Did my math, can afford Hecate, but i swear one more animal in this house and i will shoot my fiance


hahaha "honey, I bought a SECOND snake and its YOUR FAULT!" hahaha  I'm telling you...it'll happen...you wait lol.  Snakes are the hard drug of the animal world lol.

all joking aside I hope you get everything you need for Hecate, she will be a pleasure to own once you get every synched up!

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## m3gz

Finishing off that shopping list this afternoon, and returning the useless stuff they sold me. turns out that thermometer was broken.

as for another snake, HE would have to feed it. and he couldnt do it

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predatorkeeper87 (03-24-2017)

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## m3gz

ran cold water next to it, temp stayed at 90, and humidity stayed at 70%. Useless.

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predatorkeeper87 (03-24-2017)

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## m3gz

Guys, can you help her? 

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...ven-wrong-info



even after all the info youve given me i think youd do better at it than i could  :Razz:

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## predatorkeeper87

> Guys, can you help her? 
> 
> https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...ven-wrong-info
> 
> 
> 
> even after all the info youve given me i think youd do better at it than i could


lol I found it while lurking, no worries its answered.

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## m3gz

Great =D one more happy slithery friend thanks to you guys <3 idk what idve done without the help you guys gave me. Annnnnd now i go to b**** out that lady at petsmart.


Edit:If i end up in jail, i totally didnt do whatever it is they say i did XD

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predatorkeeper87 (03-24-2017)

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## Craiga 01453

> Other than cost of course. Did my math, can afford Hecate, but i swear one more animal in this house and i will shoot my fiance


Ha! That's cute... You'll have another snake in less than 6 months  :Wink: 
I always say snakes are like tattoos, I don't know many people with only one. And most who have one, have at least a few...

- - - Updated - - -




> Other than cost of course. Did my math, can afford Hecate, but i swear one more animal in this house and i will shoot my fiance


Ha! That's cute... You'll have another snake in less than 6 months  :Wink: 
I always say snakes are like tattoos, I don't know many people with only one. And most who have one, have at least a few...

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## m3gz

Except i have no tattoos and i am a master of self control O-O unless it comes to my OCD then it controls me with disastrous results

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## Craiga 01453

> hahaha "honey, I bought a SECOND snake and its YOUR FAULT!" hahaha  I'm telling you...it'll happen...you wait lol.  Snakes are the hard drug of the animal world lol.
> 
> all joking aside I hope you get everything you need for Hecate, she will be a pleasure to own once you get every synched up!


Hahaha, yup!! You'll have a second snake within 6 months  :Wink: 
I always say, snakes are like tattoos, hardly anybody has just one, and those who have them, usually have at least a few...

And PredatorKeeper is right, once you're dialed in you'll love owning a snake.

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## Zincubus

> ran cold water next to it, temp stayed at 90, and humidity stayed at 70%. Useless.


These are 3 dollars off eBay 

These digital temp guns are about 12 dollars off eBay

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## m3gz

what are "these"? o-o


oh i see, the images didnt want to load. The handheld one is already on my list, and i found a digital humidity thingie and thermometer combo on amazon cheap <3

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Zincubus (03-24-2017)

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## m3gz

NOWWW im off to the petshop where i was ripped off to chew them a new head and get Hecate a better hidey hole. Finally found the dang receipt.....was under her tank for some odd reason.

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Craiga 01453 (03-24-2017)

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## Lizardlicks

Receipts always hide in the WEIRDEST places.

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Craiga 01453 (03-24-2017)

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## m3gz

Weirdest of weird. I still dont entirely understand how it ended up under her tank when i was just looking at it last night.

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## m3gz

I almost forgot to put Hecate in that other bin. That would have been a catastrophe.

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## m3gz

ooook now im getting sick of petsmart. if it was not the only store in the area i would never go there again. The ceramic heat bulb i got to replace the lights just broke. I bought it YESTERDAY.

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## m3gz

Well, this is depressing. She started to get agitated and you couldn't even walk past the tank without her hissing at you. So I checked on her, (thermometers and stuff were reading fine, 50ish humidity and 90ish temp on hot side) and she had this black splotch on her side. SO, started calling vets and was told it was probably a burn, and if my lamps were high enough, call the pet store and see if their lamps are too hot or too close. so i called and they wanted to look at her so i took her in and they were like "Well, we can take her to the vet we have working here, and get her checked out." Apparently what i DIDN'T hear them say was that they were going to refund me and take her back. I guess technically yes i agreed to this and "surrendered" the animal. But i didn't even hear them say it. So Hecate is back at the store and they aren't wanting to sell her back to me, because i "surrendered" her. Great time to be half deaf isnt it.  :Tears: 

Edit: In other words, never take the animal back to petsmart even if they just want to look them over. Hell, at this point i agree with the title, dont buy from petsmart.

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Kaorte (03-28-2017)

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## predatorkeeper87

> Well, this is depressing. She started to get agitated and you couldn't even walk past the tank without her hissing at you. So I checked on her, (thermometers and stuff were reading fine, 50ish humidity and 90ish temp on hot side) and she had this black splotch on her side. SO, started calling vets and was told it was probably a burn, and if my lamps were high enough, call the pet store and see if their lamps are too hot or too close. so i called and they wanted to look at her so i took her in and they were like "Well, we can take her to the vet we have working here, and get her checked out." Apparently what i DIDN'T hear them say was that they were going to refund me and take her back. I guess technically yes i agreed to this and "surrendered" the animal. But i didn't even hear them say it. So Hecate is back at the store and they aren't wanting to sell her back to me, because i "surrendered" her. Great time to be half deaf isnt it. 
> 
> Edit: In other words, never take the animal back to petsmart even if they just want to look them over. Hell, at this point i agree with the title, dont buy from petsmart.


raise holy hell with the manager and if he/she does nothing raise hell with the district manager.  You'll get the snake back, I'd be willing to bet on it.

never trust their vets either, they are paid by the corporate offices to assess if an animal can be sold, they don't actually care.  Start blowing up the district manager's email and cell number if its available (the local petsmart here made their DM less accessible after I lost my mind on her lol)

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## Craiga 01453

I'm sorry to hear this.  I know you went through a lot for Hecate and you had already gotten attached. Don't let this discourage you, though. Maybe this is a great opportunity to get your husbandry spot on and save a few bucks and buy a BP you will love even more from a reputable dealer. 
Let the whole experience be a learning experience, but don't let it ruin snakes for you.  You'll be more prepared next time and make a great snake mom.

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Kaorte (03-28-2017)

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## m3gz

I already talked to the manager, it seems to be part of an animal cruelty law. I was gonna try to get my bf to go in and buy her back, but I'm not sure if they'll count it as by me because of our address. Or even if they'll have her back out yet. Been googling cases of this since it happened and cant find any information on it :/ I'd really like to get her back, but if i cant idk if im going to be into getting another snake.

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## Craiga 01453

Well, I'm sorry this situation is discouraging you.  Maybe it might be best to move on then. Maybe all that excitement was just excitement, short-lived and not passion. It's pretty common for people to think snakes are awesome!!! Only to get bored with them let them suffer, move on after realizing they aren't the pet they were hoping for. Only you really know if you should own a snake.

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## m3gz

Its more like, i got attached and then lost her really fast. And for no reason. I would enjoy it, but im the kind of person that once i lose something, its hard for me to trust anything similar to it. My bf is upset because he never even got to meet her :/ i think even if i dont find another snake he will.

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## predatorkeeper87

> I already talked to the manager, it seems to be part of an animal cruelty law. I was gonna try to get my bf to go in and buy her back, but I'm not sure if they'll count it as by me because of our address. Or even if they'll have her back out yet. Been googling cases of this since it happened and cant find any information on it :/ I'd really like to get her back, but if i cant idk if im going to be into getting another snake.


That's a bunch of BS, find the law and read it over if it even exists.  Call your local animal shelters and ask them about that supposed law, they'd know far better.  Email their corporate office, tell them you didn't surrender the animal you wanted their vet to examine it and the employees never said you were surrendering it, now you've lost your pet because the store's employees were not forthcoming with you.  Corporate offices hate bad publicity, if they come back with some more crap about not giving you the snake back, politely let them know you'll be going to a news outlet about how petsmart took your pet, I'd put money on results in your favor.  Be polite, but direct.

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## Craiga 01453

> Its more like, i got attached and then lost her really fast. And for no reason. I would enjoy it, but im the kind of person that once i lose something, its hard for me to trust anything similar to it. My bf is upset because he never even got to meet her :/ i think even if i dont find another snake he will.



Well, like I said, only you know if you should have a snake. I hope everything works out for you

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## m3gz

Has that worked before? Im willing to try it but im not usually a confrontational person o-o; So, list is, email corporate people, and check actual laws. oki ill have my bf write the email, hes really good at that o-o;; polite with just the right amount of threat ._.

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Kaorte (03-28-2017)

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## m3gz

There does seem to be a law....but it applies to ferrets, cats, dogs, and livestock. Your email idea may just work =D

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## predatorkeeper87

> Has that worked before? Im willing to try it but im not usually a confrontational person o-o; So, list is, email corporate people, and check actual laws. oki ill have my bf write the email, hes really good at that o-o;; polite with just the right amount of threat ._.


I can tell you I love fighting corporate jerks lol.  I emailed petsmarts offices after one of their "fish experts" told me I couldn't buy 10 danios because I wouldn't have a tank big enough...then I told her they were going into a 150 gallon and she still gave me lip about it.  I had the store manager calling me every day for a week apologizing lol, then the district manager suddenly became really hard to get ahold of for that area hahaha.   They cave over customer complaints 99.9% of the time, I mean look how stupid my complaint was haha.

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## predatorkeeper87

> There does seem to be a law....but it applies to ferrets, cats, dogs, and livestock. Your email idea may just work =D


oh I have no doubt there are animal welfare laws in your state but I highly doubt petsmart has the authority to enforce anything of the sort...its more than likely a tactic to keep you from causing a big issue over their animal so they take it back as a "surrender" and cover themselves.  The most they can do is refuse you service but again corporate hates seeing dollar bills walk out of the store instead of in.

If this does not work out in your favor, as craig said chalk it up as a learning experience, get your husbandry spot on and buy a beautiful snake from one of the many amazing breeders on here or morph market, you'll be so much happier with the purchase.  I know you are attached to that snake but sometimes we may have to pick up and move on with things like this.

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## m3gz

I dont think thats stupid...if you have the resources there shouldnt be problem. But, yeaa ill have my bf do the email stuff, i dont like arguments =D hes better at it anyway. Given the lack of law applying to "exotic" animals, we should be able to get Hecate back =D Then just gotta figure out what vet will take her for that spot :/ Thank you!! i prolly wouldnt have thought to go past manager xD


If we cant though, i dont think my bf is gonna give up on a snake, so we will probably be looking at others. :/ Im still gonna hope this works lol.

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## Craiga 01453

I would also find the vet BEFORE having the animal.

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## m3gz

That probably would have been a good idea youre right >~< Honestly i wasn't thinking about what could go wrong i was focused on making sure things went right in the way of care, I am pretty sure theres an exotic pet vet among the ones i called that would take her on, Just out of town when i called v.v woulda been a lot simpler wouldnt it.

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## Craiga 01453

I'm just hoping you're not over-stressing at this point.  You went through hell with your first experience. Maybe take a breather. Maybe Hecate wasn't meant to be your long-term snake? Maybe Hecate was a learning experience and you should pump the brakes, take a breath, get your husbandry and everything spot on, get an exotic vet lined up and ready for when you need him/her.  Take some time, really think about things rather than acting on impulse.  Maybe your next snake (if you decide to go that route) will have a better experience as well. It's not just about us, these are living animals.

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## predatorkeeper87

> I dont think thats stupid...if you have the resources there shouldnt be problem. But, yeaa ill have my bf do the email stuff, i dont like arguments =D hes better at it anyway. Given the lack of law applying to "exotic" animals, we should be able to get Hecate back =D Then just gotta figure out what vet will take her for that spot :/ Thank you!! i prolly wouldnt have thought to go past manager xD
> 
> 
> If we cant though, i dont think my bf is gonna give up on a snake, so we will probably be looking at others. :/ Im still gonna hope this works lol.


she still sold me the fish which made me even more mad haha because don't give me lip about how many .5" fish I want, then sell them anyways! haha.

the law may still apply but again petsmart as a corporation have no authority to apply laws in that manner or "seize" your animal through deception as I would absolutely say in my email.  Even if an employee said something I would stand my ground on you not being told exactly what was happening, and they more or less took your animal through deception and gave you a refund without you even knowing what was happening.

And yes to finding a vet who understands ball pythons before you get another or get Hecate back.  Talk to the vet beforehand, and I mean ask him/her how many ball pythons or boas they see, and just generally talk about BP's to them.  I had that issue with an exotics vet not knowing what the req's were for a BP and arguing with me about my care of the animal so even though they say exotics, they may not be species specific.

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## predatorkeeper87

also DO NOT talk about legal issues or threaten them in any way, as they will be guaranteed to stop responding to you and give you their lawyer's info instead.  Simply state you feel deceived and the employees took your animal without explaining what was going on.

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## m3gz

Well, thats part of why im trying to get her back, the conditions i had her in were almost exact give or take a bit, and she got hurt there and i dont want to see her get hurt worse D= There are 2 exotic pet vets in my city taking new patients, ill call them in the morning. If they dont work theres others not too far away. I didnt go into this on an impulse, me and my bf have talked about it for a long time. Im also not new to long term commitments, iv'e been with my bf for almost 10 years (and hes definitely more work than any animal ever could be lol) we even own our place. I know it sounds like im kinda rushed but its a rush to get things settled, not set up. I know i had (and have) a lot of questions, but i spent a good week doing nothing but going through page after page of python care guides, possible problems, temperature and humidity variances, and all of that is enough to make your head spin without the girl at petsmart selling you into a kit that wasnt what you had planned. Kit i was originally going to get and set up had almost everything. water bowl, heat lamp, aspen, 20gal tank, heat mat, a plastic hide thingie, etc.


Oki, noted, do not mention legal stuff o-o that could get bad

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## Craiga 01453

> Well, thats part of why im trying to get her back, the conditions i had her in were almost exact give or take a bit, and she got hurt there and i dont want to see her get hurt worse D= There are 2 exotic pet vets in my city taking new patients, ill call them in the morning. If they dont work theres others not too far away. I didnt go into this on an impulse, me and my bf have talked about it for a long time. Im also not new to long term commitments, iv'e been with my bf for almost 10 years (and hes definitely more work than any animal ever could be lol) we even own our place. I know it sounds like im kinda rushed but its a rush to get things settled, not set up. I know i had (and have) a lot of questions, but i spent a good week doing nothing but going through page after page of python care guides, possible problems, temperature and humidity variances, and all of that is enough to make your head spin without the girl at petsmart selling you into a kit that wasnt what you had planned. Kit i was originally going to get and set up had almost everything. water bowl, heat lamp, aspen, 20gal tank, heat mat, a plastic hide thingie, etc.



I'm not trying to be a [_jerk_] here, I hope you understand that, but I'm thinking of the animals first. You put in a weeks worth of cramming, yet still came home with the animal the same day you bought the equipment.  That didn't work out well at all. I believe that is basically the definition of an impulse purchase. And rushing to get things settled is still rushing.  Think of the animal and put yourself in their skin. Would you want to be moved against your will into a home that is not suitable for healthy living? I wouldn't want to be somebody's trial and error. I would hope that whoever bought me to love me and take care of me for the rest of my life had things ready for me, rather than throw me in there and then get everything right.  If you were truly prepared, you would have known the girl who sold you all that crap was clueless. You would have bought the right equipment and had it dialed in FIRST, had the vet picked out FIRST, etc...  You can read the entire internet worth of info, but how much was retained?  You can ask a million questions on this forum, but the advice only helps if you listen to it.  The experienced keepers all say the same thing....be prepared before you take the animal home, it's not fair to the animal otherwise. You already had Hecate when you started posting, so I was happy to help out. Now you have the knowledge and the tools to do things the right way, I hope you decide to do it the right way this time.

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## m3gz

I was not trying to imply that your advice was not appreciated, nor was i trying to be rude. I will admit to having not thought out what could go wrong. I also will admit that i should have had it set up first. The decision to buy a snake in itself was not impulse, the day i went i went to get the kit not the snake. I made the mistake of going to look, and the girl asked if i wanted to go ahead and take the snake since she had helped me make the kit. I should have waited, yes, and before i actually bring her home again you can bet that it will be right. Which is why i will call the vets in the morning and talk to them. I would never have called you rude or....anything else for that matter. The animals matter most, that is a mindset that is not only rare anymore, but i value it immensely. You guys have been the absolute best since i joined your forum. I really am sorry if you took my reply as anything other than trying to show that i am not impulsive, or unable to care for her. Again, all of your advice is appreciated, and taken to heart. You have way more experience than i do.

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## Craiga 01453

> I was not trying to imply that your advice was not appreciated, nor was i trying to be rude. I will admit to having not thought out what could go wrong. I also will admit that i should have had it set up first. The decision to buy a snake in itself was not impulse, the day i went i went to get the kit not the snake. I made the mistake of going to look, and the girl asked if i wanted to go ahead and take the snake since she had helped me make the kit. I should have waited, yes, and before i actually bring her home again you can bet that it will be right. Which is why i will call the vets in the morning and talk to them. I would never have called you rude or....anything else for that matter. The animals matter most, that is a mindset that is not only rare anymore, but i value it immensely. You guys have been the absolute best since i joined your forum. I really am sorry if you took my reply as anything other than trying to show that i am not impulsive, or unable to care for her. Again, all of your advice is appreciated, and taken to heart. You have way more experience than i do.



I didn't take it that way, no worries at all. I'm just trying to put the animals first.  The animals rely on us to keep them alive and healthy, they have no say in the matter. I'm here to learn and to help people who are learning.  I am miles from an expert, but I do feel comfortable helping out where I can and sharing what I have learned and experienced. 
I don't doubt you'll be a great snake mom, I just want to see the animal taken care of the best way possible.  You've had a hard go of things from the get-go. I would definitely think taking some time to hammer out the issues you've had and ensure they don't happen again would be best for you as well as the animal.

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## m3gz

I will ALWAYS have the animals best interests in mind, its the whole point of caring for a companion...And yea, i am smashing out the issues i ran into last time. The tank is still set up, i cleaned it out and reset everything but the aspen. Nothings on yet, because i have no idea when we will be able to get her back, but a few days before we do, or before my bf finds another snake, ill have the tank going and stable. I will also have the vets checked out by tomorrow, if neither of the 2 directly in my city seem to know half of what you guys do then i will look into the ones just outside it. I will not go into this unprepared again, it was one of the worst things, to feel like i put her in danger by moving too fast. I also do not like the idea of her sitting in that store where they starved her, and how she got burned id love to know.

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## predatorkeeper87

> I will ALWAYS have the animals best interests in mind, its the whole point of caring for a companion...And yea, i am smashing out the issues i ran into last time. The tank is still set up, i cleaned it out and reset everything but the aspen. Nothings on yet, because i have no idea when we will be able to get her back, but a few days before we do, or before my bf finds another snake, ill have the tank going and stable. I will also have the vets checked out by tomorrow, if neither of the 2 directly in my city seem to know half of what you guys do then i will look into the ones just outside it. I will not go into this unprepared again, it was one of the worst things, to feel like i put her in danger by moving too fast. I also do not like the idea of her sitting in that store where they starved her, and how she got burned id love to know.


We were all new once, don't be too hard on yourself.  Its a learning experience that you take away from.   

Just talk to the vets, make sure they aren't recommending goofy stuff for BP's like a UVB light.  Ask them what they recommend for a proper setup for a ball python and see what they say.  If it feels off, find a new vet and don't chance it.

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## m3gz

And dont get talked in circles again  :Razz:  thats on my list too haha yea, if anything feels off ill look at another one. Theres a few within distance. One of them has to be good @~@


Seriously though, i would love to know how Hecate got burned at petsmart... It didnt look like the lamps were close enough for that.

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## Craiga 01453

> We were all new once, don't be too hard on yourself.  Its a learning experience that you take away from.   
> 
> Just talk to the vets, make sure they aren't recommending goofy stuff for BP's like a UVB light.  Ask them what they recommend for a proper setup for a ball python and see what they say.  If it feels off, find a new vet and don't chance it.


^^^agreed^^^

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## m3gz

Will do  :Smile:  and thank you guys again <3

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Craiga 01453 (03-28-2017),predatorkeeper87 (03-28-2017)

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## Eric Alan

There are two things that need to be said here:
You did not "surrender" your animal to PetSmart - you brought it into the store, you gave it to the store to keep while under the care of their veterinarian, and you were likely given a refund. The last part (or the entire part) of that interaction would have happened at the cash register. It would have been nearly impossible for you to not know what was going on during the return process.PetSmart has always reserved the right to refuse the sale of any pet (except those they specifically carry as feeder animals). They are well within their right, and the law, to do so.

Now, if you were blatantly lied to during the process, that is another matter entirely. That is something anyone would be upset about, and rightfully so. I know it's difficult to do so, but if you take emotion out of it, what really happened at the store that day?

Best of luck to you! You have really been through a LOT so far, and I genuinely hope things get better soon.

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## m3gz

When i went to the register i thought i was paying for a vet visit, i did not realize they were refunding me.



Taking emotion out of it, they told me to bring her in so they could look her over when i called. I brought her in, they proceeded to look at the spot and say "We can have our vet take a look at her." And apparently they said that they would refund me, i did not hear them say this, but they claim to have. I will not say that they didnt, i am half deaf it is quite possible i just did not hear it. so i left the animal with the person at the reptile area, and proceeded to go pay for what i thought was a vet bill. it wasnt until i got home that i realized they hadnt taken anything off of my card, and i called and they said they had refunded me for the returned animal.

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## Eric Alan

> When i went to the register i thought i was paying for a vet visit, i did not realize they were refunding me.
> 
> Taking emotion out of it, they told me to bring her in so they could look her over when i called. I brought her in, they proceeded to look at the spot and say "We can have our vet take a look at her." And apparently they said that they would refund me, i did not hear them say this, but they claim to have. I will not say that they didnt, i am half deaf it is quite possible i just did not hear it. so i left the animal with the person at the reptile area, and proceeded to go pay for what i thought was a vet bill. it wasnt until i got home that i realized they hadnt taken anything off of my card, and i called and they said they had refunded me for the returned animal.


That makes more sense, thank you. I hope you are able to get things resolved.

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## m3gz

Of the two vets i was able to get a hold of this morning, one was out of town, and the other said that whatever wood shavings i could get would work for bedding :/  Cedar and the other scenty oily woods have chemicals in them that are bad for any animal -.-

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## Craiga 01453

> Of the two vets i was able to get a hold of this morning, one was out of town, and the other said that whatever wood shavings i could get would work for bedding :/  Cedar and the other scenty oily woods have chemicals in them that are bad for any animal -.-


Oh jeez, well, can't hurt to try a few others and the other one when he gets back from vacation.  I truly hope this all works out for you, it's been a tough little road so far. I really hope it doesn't discourage you, regardless of what happens with Hecate. You're gonna be a good snake mom once this is all figured out.

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## m3gz

Yea,just waiting until about 3 to call the others, that way theres actually someone there lol

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Craiga 01453 (03-28-2017)

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