# Ball Pythons > BP Morphs & Genetics > Is This A Morph? / What Morph Is This? >  two sire clutch + weird head stamp

## roundbrowndog

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tfsm6e028...WYcL2c9ta?dl=0

Hey folks! I'm so sorry for the lengthy post but I've got a bit of a mystery on my hands...actually THREE "huh?-type" questions from my most recent clutch! The first is that I've got what looks VERY much like an ivory but the mama is NOT yb. At all. I double/triple checked. The sire was a fire yb, but I purchased her as a pastel het pied and have not had any reason to think otherwise (except she's never proven out for pied for me lol). I'd be more inclined to think superfire and that she carries fire (her head is scarred up) but it looks ivory, with the black dusting on the head. Can the allele spontaneously double? AND (puzzle #2) not only do I have an ivory (!) but I also have a lovely little champagne satin in this same clutch. He was last year's male/sire and I've produced those before so I know what it is...but my champagne firefly satin does NOT carry yb...and my fire yb does NOT carry champagne. So she retained sperm from last year and included it in this year's clutch? There are a couple of superpastels, which would have been from the champ firefly satin. Puzzle 3 though...what the heck is the head stamp? I've been doing this about 7 years now and I love head stamps - but I don't recall ever seeing a starburst/trident. (But of course I try to stick with the morphs I know so I don't make myself crazy lol). Anybody have any ideas? At this point I'm thinking all bets are off with mama - she was a rescue so no background besides what I was told and the fire yb was also a rescue so he certainly might have more going on. Here's the clutch (which I am actually quite happy with). Thanks for your patience!

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## nikkubus

The Ivory-looking one could be Pastel or Super Pastel Super Fire and that's how the eyes got to be blue. Another possibility is it's Champagne + something. Enough morphs stacked with Champagne can give almost white animals sometimes.

You can have a dual sired clutch from different years, it's rare but it happens.

The headstamp, are you talking about the third pic and top left in 5th pic? That's pretty common in YB and YB combos.

If mom was a rescue, she very well have YB and you just had goofy odds before.

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## Armiyana

Weird.... I typed up a reply but it didn't post...?Thank you weird computer error. Lol

I am also in the camp of super fire and not yb. The yellow that is showing on that one is more like the color on some super fires and not the usual more stripe of yellow I see on ivory. Might show up more over the next few sheds. It might be just a low expression on fire in mom. 
But Nikkubus brings up a good point about possibly a stacked champagne too. That could be another option...

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## Tila

I'm still getting acquainted with Yellowbelly myself, but is there a chance the trident headstamp could be attributed to Spotnose? I just hatched a snake with a similar headstamp and I'm thinking mine is Spotnose, maybe Spotnose +? The other genes at play in my case are black pastel and yellowbelly, and the one I think is Yellowbelly doesn't really have a headstamp. Hopefully this is helpful for you.

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

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_nikkubus_ (07-25-2022)

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## roundbrowndog

> I'm still getting acquainted with Yellowbelly myself, but is there a chance the trident headstamp could be attributed to Spotnose? I just hatched a snake with a similar headstamp and I'm thinking mine is Spotnose, maybe Spotnose +? The other genes at play in my case are black pastel and yellowbelly, and the one I think is Yellowbelly doesn't really have a headstamp. Hopefully this is helpful for you.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


Thanks Tila - I also wondered about spotnose but I've only had a couple (of spotnose) over the years and none that I paired with this female. I produce maybe 6-8 clutches a year - not a lot - but it does seem like I always have a few of babies who don't match what they are expected to be lol. I use yb a lot in my combos because I love the brightening effect but as I said, this headstamp is a new one for me (but I like it! Might be worth playing with cause it looks cool). Overall I think y'all are right about waiting through a couple more sheds.

Also, I paired up my black pastel with my fire yb as well...I love the look of the black pastel and simply hoped to brighten/heighten contrast. No eggs yet but fingers crossed! Good luck with yours!

Thanks for the input!!

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## roundbrowndog

Nikkubus and Armiyana - I think you are right about either stacked champagne or superfire or similar. That makes much more sense than me trying to add in a 2nd sire or a doubled allele! This new little guy definitely has some yellow/pattern so I'll just have see what comes through as his color settles. :-). (ugh. Patience grasshopper). Last season (20-21) was the first time I'd worked with champagne so I'm still learning all the very cool stuff it does in combos... I really appreciate your input/insights! 

Thanks again!

Jill

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## roundbrowndog

I found it!! Unless I'm dreaming it looks like that head stamp indicates satin. Satin is what I had hoped to break out last year from my champagne firefly satin (but I didn't get any single gene satins so never saw the head stamp). Cool beans! Now I can sleep lol. 

https://www.morphmarket.com/morphpedia/ball-pythons/satin/

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_nikkubus_ (07-26-2022)

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## Armiyana

Too bad you're across the country...
I picked up a girl that is supposedly carrying the satin gene and still am kinda squinting at her alot.

She's a gorgeous Lesser Black Pastel (Satin?) but her pattern makes me wonder. not much blush on her head though
https://imgur.com/a/RkeUDYr

EDIT:
I just realized that you can make out more pattern and a bit of grey on the 'white' one in the photo of it's sibling. It totally looks like a champagne pattern there. I'd try taking a blacklight to it and see what you can make out. So maybe you did hit on a multi-gene pastel Champagne

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_nikkubus_ (07-26-2022)

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