# Site General > Pet Related Laws & Legislation >  USARK & Reptile Nation Save 5 of 9 species from FWS Constrictor Rule!

## USARK.Jonathan.Brady

*USARK & Reptile Nation Save 5 of 9 species from FWS Constrictor Rule!* 
This morning a joint press conference was held by Senator Bill Nelson of Florida, Interior Dept Director, Ken Salazar; and US Fish & Wildlife Service Director Dan Ashe at Everglades National Park (ENP) to make an Everglades conservation and preservation announcement. It was made public that a final rule would be enacted by FWS potentially restricting trade in 9 constricting snakes. Although there had been no word from FWS or White House oversight officials prior to the press conference, Andrew Wyatt CEO USARK, learned of a rumor on the HILL that there would be an announcement regarding the Constrictor Listing; a listing of 9 constricting snakes to the Injurious Wildlife list of the Lacey Act. This is an action that could destroy $104 million per year in small business while potentially making more than 1 million Americans into Lacey Act felons. This action has now come to pass; albeit in a more limited fashion than was pushed by FWS and the powerful environmental and animal rights lobby. 

*As of now the Constrictor Rule, when enacted, will BAN the IMPORT and INTERSTATE TRANSPORT of the following 4 species: Burmese python, Northern African python, Southern African python and yellow anaconda.*

USARK will be making further announcements regarding potential legal remedy to the flagrant disregard for science, due process, or information quality standards by FWS and the Obama Administration.  This is a clear example of policy being based on staff preference combined with political considerations, rather than clear science and due process. The FWS failed at every level to make a solid case for justifying a Lacey Act listing. How the White House can justify this train wreck of a rule to pass is a mystery. In the opinion of USARK the actions of FWS are arbitrary, capricious and unlawful. That is not a charge that is unfamiliar to FWS. In 2010 FWS scientists were found guilty of falsifying information to manufacture science to support a rule on the Delta Smelt in the Central Valley of California. FWS was found guilty of being arbitrary, capricious and unlawful" in their effort to add the controversial fish to the Endangered Species Act. USARK will pursue available legal remedy to this travesty of justice and blatant misuse of the Lacey Act. The Lacey Act was the wrong tool for the wrong reason.

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_adamsky27_ (01-17-2012),_Bradford Cole_ (01-17-2012),CCfive (01-18-2012),_Chris633_ (01-17-2012),_Clementine_3_ (01-17-2012),_geckobabies_ (01-18-2012),_heathers*bps_ (01-17-2012),_Jonas@Balls2TheWall_ (01-17-2012),JulieInNJ (01-17-2012),KingObeat (01-17-2012),_Kinra_ (01-17-2012),_Mft62485_ (01-17-2012),mikel81 (01-17-2012),_ReptilesK2_ (01-18-2012),_The Serpent Merchant_ (01-17-2012),_thedarkwolf25_ (01-17-2012),_youbeyouibei_ (01-17-2012),_zeion97_ (01-18-2012)

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## adamsky27

Well that is good news. Great job USARK and Reptile Nation!

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## Freakie_frog

> Well that is good news. Great job USARK and Reptile Nation!


It's a turd in the punch bowl..we need to work on an appeal.

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## Mike Cavanaugh

> Well that is good news.


Why is it great news?  Because you don't own a Burm?

I got news for you, this is only where it starts.  Now all it will take is a simple amendment to add whatever other snake species they want to the list. 

It doesn't make any scientific sense to enforce such rules nation wide.  Will you still consider it good news when they add YOUR favorite species to the list?  Don't think it will happen?  That is the same thing everyone thought about this.

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KingObeat (01-17-2012),_ReptilesK2_ (01-18-2012),_TessadasExotics_ (01-18-2012),_zeion97_ (01-18-2012)

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## WarriorPrincess90

It sucks that they managed to ban any, but YAY USARK! Thank you for saving the others!  :Good Job:  Now I don't have to go get a BCI this week. But I will be getting them sooner rather than later now.

Regardless, the fight isn't over. We are entitled to the pursuit of happiness in this country, and if your happiness includes a burm, well, you're out of luck as it stands now. As stated earlier, we need to work to repeal and stop it in its tracks.

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_adamsky27_ (01-17-2012)

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## minguss

> It's a turd in the punch bowl..we need to work on an appeal.


Yeap. It will most lilikey be a long legal battle but all of need to continue to support USARK and fight this.

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## heathers*bps

I will do whatever I can in my power to back USARK. We own about 10 burms and this puts a serious hurting on our future business dealings.

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_adamsky27_ (01-17-2012)

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## dr del

Hi,

What do we need to do for the next phase in fighting this idiotic ban?


dr del

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_adamsky27_ (01-17-2012),_heathers*bps_ (01-17-2012),_Kinra_ (01-17-2012),_purplemuffin_ (01-17-2012),_ReptilesK2_ (01-18-2012),_zeion97_ (01-18-2012)

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## Valentine Pirate

> Hi,
> 
> What do we need to do for the next phase in fighting this idiotic ban?
> 
> 
> dr del


x 2

Burms are an impossibility for me right now. I know this because I rent a room, still have to finish school to support myself having my own house, and other plans that are going to take many years before I can complete them. It was my decision that once I had myself settled somewhere that I'd pick up a burm, and I still want to be able to do that without being worried about getting arrested

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## ShockBunny

Well, I'm glad the govt is at least SORT OF paying attention and listening to USARK. If we got this far, maybe we have a shot at getting our voices heard and getting the whole damn thing thrown out.


I'm really disappointed in FWS right now. :/ I tend to think of myself as a raging liberal and I generally support government entities protecting the environment and wildlife. This is the first time I've come down on the "smaller government" side of an issue and it's disconcerting for me! But, I'm a scientist at heart and it is extremely infuriating to see what I thought of as a community of scientists blatantly skew the research to suit a political agenda. I guess I'm still a bit naive about political process in this country...I'm not used to seeing fear-mongering on my own side of the fence, and it stings!

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geeko (01-17-2012),_WingedWolfPsion_ (01-17-2012)

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## zeion97

Its to early in the morning... are Retics on that list..? And no this is not a comprise.. this is how it will start, within a year the other 5 an Maybe more will probably be up there. All they need is ground to start on an That's will gain them motivation in Congress to continue.
 This entire thing is BS.. an now I'm stuck here if I want to keep.my Burmese..... which means if I got high class culinary job I have to.pick between my two loves... culinary and my reptiles.
What Is our next step? Do we appeal?

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## Dragoon

the rest of the announcement states that the rest of the species are still being considered.  this is still a loss the fight keeps going and we still need to send letters to fight it off

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_adamsky27_ (01-17-2012)

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## WarriorPrincess90

Retics are not on the list. YET. 

I don't imagine they are going to have police at the state borders searching vehicles for snakes being transported. So realistically, if you moved you could probably still manage to take your snakes with you. BUT, don't move to Florida. If your neighbor found out you had a Burm, heaven forbid! lol. I understand the concern, but really? I have family in Miami and have driven through the Everglades many time. I have never, NOT ONCE, seen a Burm anywhere. I know they are there, but the problem is not quite as bad as the politicians are making it out to be. Yes, it may be hurting the natural ecosystem to some extent, but it's not like these snakes are everywhere and are a danger to humans. This whole thing is ridiculous. 

I know sending the emails to my state Senators probably did nothing (stinkin' Florida), but I will now probably be sending hand written letters as well. I think the best thing we can do at this point is keep supporting USARK.  :Salute:

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_adamsky27_ (01-17-2012),_purplemuffin_ (01-17-2012),_ReptilesK2_ (01-18-2012),_zeion97_ (01-17-2012)

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## adamsky27

> Why is it great news?  Because you don't own a Burm?
> 
> I got news for you, this is only where it starts.  Now all it will take is a simple amendment to add whatever other snake species they want to the list. 
> 
> It doesn't make any scientific sense to enforce such rules nation wide.  Will you still consider it good news when they add YOUR favorite species to the list?  Don't think it will happen?  That is the same thing everyone thought about this.


It is great news because they saved 5 of the 9. It is better than nothing. Be happy that they were able to save the ones that they saved. What if they did ban all 9? Are you saying that the efforts of USARK are useless? That's what I get from your posts. These people work so hard for us, and when they get something done it is never good enough.

Personally, I am thankful for what they do. Even if they were only to save 1 of the 9 I'd still be happy.

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GoldDust (01-17-2012),_ReptilesK2_ (01-18-2012),_WarriorPrincess90_ (01-17-2012),_youbeyouibei_ (01-17-2012)

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## DemmBalls

This totally stinks!  I will be waiting on further direction from USARK to see what more I can do to help fight these endless battles.  Thank you USARK for what you have done so far!

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_adamsky27_ (01-17-2012)

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## Kittycatpenut

Darn Congress... My dad said that I could get a burm once we got a rental house and had the money.  Now it looks like that will never happen. :Mad:  :Taz:  :Tears:  :Rage:

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## WingedWolfPsion

I'm glad that they saved my SD Retic project.
I'm sad that I won't be adding a dwarf Burm project.

I'm still game to keep fighting.

Folks, PLEASE UNDERSTAND THIS RULE.  This ban prohibits importation and interstate transport, and that is all.  You will still be able to keep, breed, and sell these animals inside your own State (provided it's legal to do so now).
That's part of the reason why adding these animals to the Lacey Act doesn't accomplish any of the things they claimed that it would.  It's why this is such a stupid rule.  It doesn't even do what they wanted it to do, it's bad no matter which side you were on.

If you were planning to get a pet Burm next year, you still can, provided you're not planning on moving to another State in the future.

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_minguss_ (01-18-2012)

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## spitzu

> While others heaped praise on Interior Secretary Ken Salazars ban on Burmese pythons and other invasive snakes, South Florida Congressman Tom Rooney called it a half-measure that will not do nearly enough to protect the Everglades and the surrounding ecosystems.
> 
> Salazars rules, unveiled on Tuesday, will halt the importation and interstate transport of four constrictor snakes. But Rooney notes that the U.S. Geological Service found that nine species threaten Floridas environment.
> 
> *Rooney, a Republican from Tequesta, touted his proposed bill that would ban all nine.
> 
> There are nine species of invasive predators that pose a severe threat to our native wildlife," he said, "and all nine need to be eradicated.*


http://weblogs.sun-sentinel.com/news...an_as_hal.html

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## purplemuffin

Oh, yay. Sort of. Sigh.

This is going to happen again. I don't want to hear in the next few years "At least we stopped MOST of it" again..and again..and again. Until they are all gone, and more and more snakes are added to the list. 

It sucks to try so hard and come so close and fail. We did fail--it's like a piece of cloth. We feel strong as the reptile nation, no one can break us. But once that cloth has been cut--a ban like this one..It's far to easy for all of those against us to take hold and rip our fragile world apart. This is just the beginning. We can't get soft here. Prepare for statewide bans and more push from the government.

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## WingedWolfPsion

We are going to have to fight harder, and work harder to bring others into this fight.  Purplemuffin is correct, now they know that we can't defeat them, and they will not stop.

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_zeion97_ (01-17-2012)

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## Mike Cavanaugh

> Are you saying that the efforts of USARK are useless? That's what I get from your posts. These people work so hard for us, and when they get something done it is never good enough.
> 
> Personally, I am thankful for what they do. Even if they were only to save 1 of the 9 I'd still be happy.


Please don't put words in my mouth.  I never suggested anything like that.  

I am sorry, but this in no way should be considered a victory.  All removing the 5 did was postpone the inevitable for now.

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## Kinra

Is there any way to find out who voted to pass this?

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_purplemuffin_ (01-17-2012),_Royal Hijinx_ (01-17-2012),_zeion97_ (01-17-2012)

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## BigJ

> I'm glad that they saved my SD Retic project.
> I'm sad that I won't be adding a dwarf Burm project.
> 
> I'm still game to keep fighting.
> 
> Folks, PLEASE UNDERSTAND THIS RULE.  This ban prohibits importation and interstate transport, and that is all.  You will still be able to keep, breed, and sell these animals inside your own State (provided it's legal to do so now).
> That's part of the reason why adding these animals to the Lacey Act doesn't accomplish any of the things they claimed that it would.  It's why this is such a stupid rule.  It doesn't even do what they wanted it to do, it's bad no matter which side you were on.
> 
> If you were planning to get a pet Burm next year, you still can, provided you're not planning on moving to another State in the future.


I'm sorry but this post is BS. I am so tired of people trying to be optimistic about this. What if one of the species listed was ball pythons?? I bet your post would have a little different ring to it! It will destroy the breeders of these animals, as well limit your options if you ever choose to get one as a pet! The fact of the matter is that this is just a "segue bill" that they will use to eventually ban whatever snakes they see fit...its how the government works these days!

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KingObeat (01-17-2012),_Mike Cavanaugh_ (01-17-2012),_minguss_ (01-18-2012)

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## Ben_Renick

Anyone else notice it does not specifically say "African Rock Pythons"

"Northern and Southern African pythons" is what it says in the press and media, it does NOT list species name. 

If anyone has seen the actual legislation or has a link with the species name, please post it so we can see that this does not actually include Ball Pythons in a slick attempt to get more than what it says.  May not look like much now, but if it's not written properly, this could be a big deal later.

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## KingObeat

I'm glad USARK managed to get five species taken off the list, but I'm still pissed that Burms and Yellow Anacondas are still on it.  :Mad:  I still won't give up my Dwarf Burm.

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## Kinra

> Anyone else notice it does not specifically say "African Rock Pythons"
> 
> "Northern and Southern African pythons" is what it says in the press and media, it does NOT list species name. 
> 
> If anyone has seen the actual legislation or has a link with the species name, please post it so we can see that this does not actually include Ball Pythons in a slick attempt to get more than what it says.  May not look like much now, but if it's not written properly, this could be a big deal later.


I had noticed that too and it has me worried how it is actually worded in the legislation.   :Sad:

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## ER12

> Is there any way to find out who voted to pass this?


Hi Rebecca-

In a word, no. This was not a bill in the legislature that most of us are more familiar with. This was a federal rule change proposed by USFWS and Department of the Interior (DOI) Secretary Ken Salazar.

This has been the last straw for me; the Obama administration needs to be dismantled and a new candidate to take office.

Ron Paul 2012

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_Hypnotic Exotic_ (01-17-2012),_Kinra_ (01-17-2012),_minguss_ (01-18-2012),_zeion97_ (01-17-2012)

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## WarriorPrincess90

> Is there any way to find out who voted to pass this?


I believe Public Records law requires a record of who voted how. Where you would find those records...I'm not sure. You could public records request it, but they may try to scare you off by charging you. Government is a PITA.  :Taz:

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## WarriorPrincess90

> Anyone else notice it does not specifically say "African Rock Pythons"
> 
> "Northern and Southern African pythons" is what it says in the press and media, it does NOT list species name. 
> 
> If anyone has seen the actual legislation or has a link with the species name, please post it so we can see that this does not actually include Ball Pythons in a slick attempt to get more than what it says.  May not look like much now, but if it's not written properly, this could be a big deal later.


This is a huge loop hole that they may or may not be aware of at the moment. But let me tell you, they will use it to their advantage at the first possible opportunity. Grrr.

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## KatStoverReptiles

> This is a huge loop hole that they may or may not be aware of at the moment. But let me tell you, they will use it to their advantage at the first possible opportunity. Grrr.


Here's the "proposed rule" from FWS. It does list species. I cannot find the "revised rule" that was approved today. 

http://www.fws.gov/fisheries/ANS/fr_2010-4956.pdf

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_WarriorPrincess90_ (01-18-2012)

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## dragonmoon

> I'm glad USARK managed to get five species taken off the list, but I'm still pissed that Burms and Yellow Anacondas are still on it.  I still won't give up my Dwarf Burm.


They only temporarily off the list they're still considering the other  species on the original bill 

taken from the press release



> U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Director Dan Ashe said the Service will continue to consider listing as injurious the five other species of nonnative snakes that the agency also proposed in 2010 – the reticulated python, boa constrictor, DeSchauensee’s anaconda, green anaconda and Beni anaconda.


thats why the fighting isnt done yet for the reptile community

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## Gomojoe

The DOI press release gives two contacts. We should flood their phones.  Has Adam Fetcher as the DOI contact at 202-208-6416 and Valerie Fellows as the FWS contact at 703-358-2285 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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_zeion97_ (01-17-2012)

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## zeion97

> The DOI press release gives two contacts. We should flood their phones.  Has Adam Fetcher as the DOI contact at 202-208-6416 and Valerie Fellows as the FWS contact at 703-358-2285 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'll be calling. Blow up the phone! Ad people... *STOP FIGHTING AMONGST OURSELVES* 

WE NEED TO STAND TOGETHER. the only thing we need are laws ob importing, we can't fight each other or else nothing will get done...

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_minguss_ (01-18-2012)

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## ball-nut

Anyone else getting a slow feeling retics and green Annie's are about to be banned outright?

Just seems strange the largest 2 are not listed.

Sent from my phone, to the Internet, to your screen.

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## zeion97

> Anyone else getting a slow feeling retics and green Annie's are about to be banned outright?
> 
> Just seems strange the largest 2 are not listed.
> 
> Sent from my phone, to the Internet, to your screen.


I wouldn't doubt it. But with annys they have no leverage. I mean who says "mommy! There's a 25 foot anaconda in the backyard!" Like I said, this law all together is BS. It's Florida trying to rule us. Why they care so much is beyond me, its probably Because they. Can't do anything about all those feral cats out there destroying the glades.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## cmack91

thats somewhat good news i guess, but why are they banning yellow anacondas instead of greens when greens get bigger? that doesnt make sense to me

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## purplemuffin

So, what do we do now? I feel like I should still be calling and emailing. What do I say? Do we know who voted what? Is that something I can ask my senator?


Yellow anaconda---I believe it was mentioned they can survive colder climates? Maybe it's because they are smaller and can hide in better places in the cold? I'm not 100% for sure.

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_cmack91_ (01-18-2012)

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## OhhWatALoser

> thats somewhat good news i guess, but why are they banning yellow anacondas instead of greens when greens get bigger? that doesnt make sense to me


I thought the same thing, but we are dealing with Washington, things like that just make sense there.

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## sgath92

> Why they care so much is beyond me,


Funding.

They know that if they can get this shoved through, they would be able to get all this extra money in fighting those "injurious" snakes.

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_minguss_ (01-18-2012)

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## cmack91

> I thought the same thing, but we are dealing with Washington, things like that just make sense there.


haha, that is true, sadly.

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## cmack91

plus, what is the point of even banning any snakes from being transported over state lines, if your still going to let people own those snakes in the states that theyre not already outlawed in? its not going to help anything whatsoever, i would think the politicians in florida would WANT all the burms to be moved out of state, instead of trapping them in with nowhere else to go

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## John1982

I am beyond pissed.

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## WingedWolfPsion

> I'm sorry but this post is BS. I am so tired of people trying to be optimistic about this. What if one of the species listed was ball pythons?? I bet your post would have a little different ring to it! It will destroy the breeders of these animals, as well limit your options if you ever choose to get one as a pet! The fact of the matter is that this is just a "segue bill" that they will use to eventually ban whatever snakes they see fit...its how the government works these days!


I'm sorry, but I don't think anything I said involves 'trying to be optimistic about this", and I was clarifying what this addition to the Lacey Act ACTUALLY DOES, because if people don't understand it, they can't intelligently fight it.  Please re-read what I said, instead of freaking out because I said I was glad that I'll get to keep my SD retics when I move back to Wyoming.  I am a business, and I'm glad that, at the moment, that project is still fine.  
I don't accept what's going on, and I will keep fighting...as I said.

If this were about ball pythons, I wouldn't have said one thing different, other than the part about being happy about not losing a project.

Again, people need to UNDERSTAND WHAT THE BAN IS.  It is a ban on transportation, NOT a ban on the animals themselves.  People do NOT need to lose their minds and start believing the government is about to break down their door and take away their Burms.  That's not what this is about, and I see TOO MANY people who think than Burmese pythons are now BANNED, and they will not be able to own them any longer.

I said it, because apparently everyone else was just happy to let people keep believing that the government was going to take away their snakes.

That doesn't IN ANY WAY imply that I think the transportation ban is A-OK.  I think it's a disaster, but people need to understand it so they can fight it effectively.

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_zeion97_ (01-17-2012)

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## TMurphy

This sucks...there's nothing positive about this......Woo-Hoo..5 didn't make it...don't pat yourselves on the back.......THEY'RE NOT DONE! I get that this is a banning on transportation......but this is just a foot in the doorway.......and to say..."you still get to keep your snake and breed it and sell it in your own state" is mucked up!! 
This country is really starting to mucking suck.....from the rediculous health insurance benefits/costs to gas price gouging to the pathetic justice system......i guess this is just one more thing to be proud to be an american.......... :projectile:

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## BigJ

> I'm sorry, but I don't think anything I said involves 'trying to be optimistic about this", and I was clarifying what this addition to the Lacey Act ACTUALLY DOES, because if people don't understand it, they can't intelligently fight it.  Please re-read what I said, instead of freaking out because I said I was glad that I'll get to keep my SD retics when I move back to Wyoming.  I am a business, and I'm glad that, at the moment, that project is still fine.  
> I don't accept what's going on, and I will keep fighting...as I said.
> 
> If this were about ball pythons, I wouldn't have said one thing different, other than the part about being happy about not losing a project.
> 
> Again, people need to UNDERSTAND WHAT THE BAN IS.  It is a ban on transportation, NOT a ban on the animals themselves.  People do NOT need to lose their minds and start believing the government is about to break down their door and take away their Burms.  That's not what this is about, and I see TOO MANY people who think than Burmese pythons are now BANNED, and they will not be able to own them any longer.
> 
> I said it, because apparently everyone else was just happy to let people keep believing that the government was going to take away their snakes.
> 
> That doesn't IN ANY WAY imply that I think the transportation ban is A-OK.  I think it's a disaster, but people need to understand it so they can fight it effectively.


My apologies, I miss-understood the tone of your original post. I read into it the wrong way and from my perspective it sounded like you were brushing it off as something worth fighting but not a big deal. Again I apologize for coming at you in such a way, this kind of stuff really gets at me as I am sure it does most everyone in this hobby/business. 

Yes there are many people out there who are not informed on what the new law actually states, and I appreciate your clarification on that. I agree with you 100% that people need to understand the bill so we can intelligently fight back, and I now see that is what you were trying to say in your first post.

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## Kittycatpenut

I do understand what it is, I'm just saying that it's going to be much harder if not impossible to get morphs legally except albino. I really hope this bill doesn't pass; it will put people out of business.

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## WingedWolfPsion

From what I understand, it's already DONE.  Those 4 species HAVE BEEN ADDED TO THE LACEY ACT'S INJURIOUS SPECIES LIST.

This is no longer a potential, it's come to pass.  Getting them removed is going to be dramatically more difficult than preventing it from happening in the first place, and we're going to have to fight tooth and nail to keep it from happening to the remaining 5.

For those who claim this was not a victory...I'm sorry, but it was.  We could have lost all 9, and we did not.  We could have done more, if we had been able to generate the kind of response that we did the first time this came up.  It's hard to say to say whether that would have prevented the 4 from being added, because powerful interests pushed this through.  They may have done so regardless of what kind of numbers we had.  It's impossible to speculate on that.

We still could lose the remaining species, and we need to step up our efforts now, not relax and sit back.

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## simpleyork

If they wanted to get rid of the wild population wouldn't it be better to extend the hunting season for them all year and not make people buy licenses to do so. 

Sad to see where this country is really going. . .  to the swine

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## Kittycatpenut

Crap, I couldn't find if they had been added or not. Our government stinks  :Mad:  What happened to the "land of the free"?

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## Hypnotic Exotic

> Hi Rebecca-
> 
> In a word, no. This was not a bill in the legislature that most of us are more familiar with. This was a federal rule change proposed by USFWS and Department of the Interior (DOI) Secretary Ken Salazar.
> 
> This has been the last straw for me; the Obama administration needs to be dismantled and a new candidate to take office.
> 
> Ron Paul 2012


This is precisely what's wrong with this country now. If something can't get through Congress, then they go around them. Wasn't that the whole purpose of having three branches of government?!?!?! This is yet one more example of blatant abuse of power.

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Foschi Exotic Serpents (01-18-2012),_minguss_ (01-18-2012)

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## zeion97

http://www.facebook.com/permalink.ph...00002017717005

Read that...

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## Kittycatpenut

I can't get in because I don't have a facebook account. Can someone copy and paste?

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## zeion97

> I can't get in because I don't have a facebook account. Can someone copy and paste?


Sorry,  :Sad: 

We need to calm down because we need to do some research on this bill. The letter I recived from the senator said that the bill was not passed through the house and is being pushed through committee. That means that the senate has not voted or passed the bill. They are basically approving what animals will go on the bill. Its not supposed to be voted on until feburay 3rd. Nothings gone through, we still have a chanc to fight this. Everyone needs to keep a level head, think about what they're going to say, and don't make the industry look bad.

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KingObeat (01-17-2012),_youbeyouibei_ (01-17-2012)

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## cottonball

> Sorry, 
> 
> We need to calm down because we need to do some research on this bill. The letter I recived from the senator said that the bill was not passed through the house and is being pushed through committee. That means that the senate has not voted or passed the bill. They are basically approving what animals will go on the bill. Its not supposed to be voted on until feburay 3rd. Nothings gone through, we still have a chanc to fight this. Everyone needs to keep a level head, think about what they're going to say, and don't make the industry look bad.


 The bill he has posted on his page is from 2009...It was shot down in both the Senate and House in the last congressional sessions. Effectively killing it until it could be re-introduced in a new form in the present session. Which it hasn't been... so far.

 What Senator Nelson did was circumvent any Congressional involvment by using the Department of the Interior and FWS to push his agenda forward. NO vote required.


  He just also happens to be up for re-election this year.  What better way to garner votes from the old retirees in Florida than to get rid of the giant lap-dog eating burmeses python. 

American politics is fun ain't it. :Surprised: 

 I am also amazed USARK was able to get the 5 others atleast postponed on such short notice. 

Seems like this has been a done deal between the agencies and Mr. Nelson for awhile.

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## WarriorPrincess90

Can I just quickly state that I am beginning to dislike living in Florida, if only for all the issues with reptiles. 

On another note, having been a part of Student Government in a University, I have learned a great deal about how things happen and why. Basically, those in power do everything they can to push legislation through which they approve of, and to quash anything they dislike. If presented eloquently enough, the sheep they are preaching to simply listen to the demands and poor explanation, then vote accordingly. Valid questions centered on specifics and legality are often answered with confidently stated falsehoods, which people then take to be true since the individual "obviously knew what he/she was talking about". My mentor once told me, "If you say it convincingly enough, and act like you know what you're talking about, they'll believe you. And almost no one will go to the trouble to check and prove you wrong. So just speak confidently and you're golden." That bit of advice still sickens me a bit.  :Mad: 

I'm sure this applies in state and federal government as well. Frankly, the political agenda of most politicians is disgusting. It is typically centered around pushing their own agenda and interests with blatant disregard for the feelings and voice of the populace.

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_minguss_ (01-18-2012)

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## TessadasExotics

So this is in no way shape or form a win for us or anyone who owns "exotic" animals. This is a major defeat.
This is devastating.
An unimaginable gain for those who oppose the rights/freedoms of others. There are many people who would love to see all exotics and pets banned. They have the money and the time to win their fight. Sooner or later, they WILL WIN.
How long do you think it is going to take for the other 5 to be put on the list?
Now that those 4 have been put on the list how long will it be before states ban them as well? It is much easier now for each state to say "If they are illegal to be imported/exported or to cross state lines, why have them at all?"

Ball Pythons will be next just because they are PYTHONS. People are ignorant of the fact that they only get 4'- 5' long. People hear Python and think of "Giant" man eating snakes. All Pythons get 50' long right?

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## Skiploder

Count me as someone who doesn't see the glass half full.  I see a full glass that is now almost half empty, with nothing but a delay until all the water is sucked out.

Boas are established in the Everglades - so why were they excluded?  Well, money talks - and boas are still big business.

This is just a beachhead on a broader front.  Anyone who thinks of this as a victory does not understand tactics.  They just stole the rights from the breeders and keepers of 4 species with plans on doing more damage in the future.

The broader front:

http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp...?121+ful+SB477

Read it.

http://www.in.gov/legislative/bills/...N/IN1288.1.pdf

We aren't "winning".  The inevitable has been delayed - big difference.  Plus, I wonder why USARK threw in that half truth about the smelt.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jan...tists-20120106

The smelt scientists were eventually cleared.  Looks like the Federal government aren't the only ones guilty of spreading info that is questionable.

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## Denial

In no way shape or form is this a victory at all. Usark did not save anything they may of delayed it but its still not passed they WILL add the rest. I for one pray they put boas back on the list becuase thats the only way any of us large keepers have ANY chance at winning this. The reptile community needs to get over there dollar signs and remember that there are still people in this hobby that keep these animals becuase we love them. I dont want to live in south carolina forever but if this passes I will have no choice because I will die before I give up my pets. They are a part of my family and we fight for our family. I dont keep boas other then anacondas but I would fight for you guys. I dont keep colubrids but I would fight for you to. We have to stick together this is bigger then just burmese pythons! Once they get these they will be back for yours to. We need to stop throwing the large snakes, venomous snakes, large monitors , and crocs under the bus and stand up and fight together because regardless if you keep them or not its still your RIGHT to have a choice to keep them! Please help us fight this we dont stand a chance alone. They have no idea how big this industry is. Its time to show them!

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spygirl (01-19-2012),_zeion97_ (01-19-2012)

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## zeion97

> In no way shape or form is this a victory at all. Usark did not save anything they may of delayed it but its still not passed they WILL add the rest. I for one pray they put boas back on the list becuase thats the only way any of us large keepers have ANY chance at winning this. The reptile community needs to get over there dollar signs and remember that there are still people in this hobby that keep these animals becuase we love them. I dont want to live in south carolina forever but if this passes I will have no choice because I will die before I give up my pets. They are a part of my family and we fight for our family. I dont keep boas other then anacondas but I would fight for you guys. I dont keep colubrids but I would fight for you to. We have to stick together this is bigger then just burmese pythons! Once they get these they will be back for yours to. We need to stop throwing the large snakes, venomous snakes, large monitors , and crocs under the bus and stand up and fight together because regardless if you keep them or not its still your RIGHT to have a choice to keep them! Please help us fight this we dont stand a chance alone. They have no idea how big this industry is. Its time to show them!



Another great post Denial.. We do need to unite, but it seems like you said, they only people that care are the owns that own the species being banded..

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_Denial_ (01-20-2012)

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## Druzy

I myself take a lot of concern on any speices of snakes that could possibly be banned. I'm a owner of just one ball python, but I could imgaine the pain of the owners who own any of the others. Trust me I too feel the pain. Just like others have stated this would not be the beginning of snake bans, if this does pass. Before we know it corn snakes would be added onto the list!

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_zeion97_ (01-20-2012)

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## redstormlax12

I am losing all hope in America these days. There is NO candidate that is not a weasel. None of the politicians have the middle working class in mind. It is all for their own agenda. In my opinion we need to run this country like it used to be, instead of this political BS. There is no candidate in my mind that will save us from the right infringement that is coming.

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KingObeat (01-20-2012),sgath92 (01-20-2012)

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## Skiploder

> *USARK & Reptile Nation Save 5 of 9 species from FWS Constrictor Rule!* 
> This morning a joint press conference was held by Senator Bill Nelson of Florida, Interior Dept Director, Ken Salazar; and US Fish & Wildlife Service Director Dan Ashe at Everglades National Park (ENP) to make an Everglades conservation and preservation announcement. It was made public that a final rule would be enacted by FWS potentially restricting trade in 9 constricting snakes. Although there had been no word from FWS or White House oversight officials prior to the press conference, Andrew Wyatt CEO USARK, learned of a “rumor” on the “HILL” that there would be an announcement regarding the Constrictor Listing; a listing of 9 constricting snakes to the Injurious Wildlife list of the Lacey Act. This is an action that could destroy $104 million per year in small business while potentially making more than 1 million Americans into Lacey Act felons. This action has now come to pass; albeit in a more limited fashion than was pushed by FWS and the powerful environmental and animal rights lobby. 
> 
> *As of now the Constrictor Rule, when enacted, will BAN the IMPORT and INTERSTATE TRANSPORT of the following 4 species: Burmese python, Northern African python, Southern African python and yellow anaconda.*
> 
> USARK will be making further announcements regarding potential legal remedy to the flagrant disregard for “science”, due process, or information quality standards by FWS and the Obama Administration.  This is a clear example of policy being based on staff preference combined with political considerations, rather than clear science and due process. The FWS failed at every level to make a solid case for justifying a Lacey Act listing. How the White House can justify this train wreck of a rule to pass is a mystery. In the opinion of USARK the actions of FWS are arbitrary, capricious and unlawful. That is not a charge that is unfamiliar to FWS._ In 2010 FWS scientists were found guilty of falsifying information to manufacture science to support a rule on the Delta Smelt in the Central Valley of California. FWS was found guilty of being “arbitrary, capricious and unlawful" in their effort to add the controversial fish to the Endangered Species Act._ USARK will pursue available legal remedy to this travesty of justice and blatant misuse of the Lacey Act. The Lacey Act was the wrong tool for the wrong reason.



I'm having a hard time reconciling the title of this thread with this:

http://www.fws.gov/home/feature/2012...sQsAs11612.pdf

A couple of questions for the mob or from someone at USARK:

How did USARK save 5 of 9 species?  I'm reading the report and it looks like the decision on the final 4 species were made solely from the USGS survey.  So, again, what role did USARK play in saving the 5 species?  My apologies in advance if I missed some critical data.

Second question:

With regards to the section I bolded and italicized, please reconcile your statement with this:

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jan...tists-20120106

In which the FWS was cleared of all charges.

It's one thing to accuse the Federal government of spreading false data.  It's another thing to do it yourself.

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_Denial_ (01-20-2012),_zeion97_ (01-20-2012)

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## snake lab

Agreed^. I dont understand how usark did anything through this entire process other then nake a ton of money from contributors. And i wonder how gregg grazianni feels after having his stupid reality show basically spearhead the fears of big snakes in the glades. Stupid stupid stupid. You would think a big player in the industry would have nothing to do with portraying the industry jn a negative manner.

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_Denial_ (01-20-2012)

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## Hypnotic Exotic

This should have gone through Congress. We currently have an executive branch that uses every loophole they can find to get around Congress. This is not the only time this has happened. He's even gone so far to say that he's willing to do so to get things done when Congress disagrees with him. This is abuse of power at its finest. They aren't listening to us. Doesn't matter how many letters we write - they will ignore them. There is an election coming up very soon. If you are 18 or older then you had better get out and let your voice be heard. If you don't vote, then don't gripe. Do your homework and look at the candidates that are pro-business. Those are the ones that you need to be voting for.

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## sgath92

> This should have gone through Congress. We currently have an executive branch that uses every loophole they can find to get around Congress. This is not the only time this has happened. He's even gone so far to say that he's willing to do so to get things done when Congress disagrees with him. This is abuse of power at its finest. They aren't listening to us. Doesn't matter how many letters we write - they will ignore them. There is an election coming up very soon. If you are 18 or older then you had better get out and let your voice be heard. If you don't vote, then don't gripe. Do your homework and look at the candidates that are pro-business. Those are the ones that you need to be voting for.



"Pro-business"? You mean like the democrats & republicans who were trying so hard to pass SOPA/PIPA?

If you're not voting for libertarians you're throwing your vote away. The two mainstream parties are both owned completely by special interests. They do don't care what the people think, or how their rules effect them. Look at how many supported the bailouts knowing full well that the people didn't want it.

SOPA? Even in the wake of the entire planet voicing their disgust at the idea, they are insisting they still need to do something similar and just need to find a way to sneak it through. How many times have we seen someone from Congress in the last 48 hours say that SOPA "isn't ready"? Not "It isn't a good idea" but "It isn't ready"! Did no one notice that they picked the day after the black out protest to launch an international manhunt to round up & detain the executives behind megaupload while simultaneously taking down the website? It was to send a message "We will do what we want, and find a way to do it."

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## Hypnotic Exotic

> "Pro-business"? You mean like the democrats & republicans who were trying so hard to pass SOPA/PIPA?
> 
> If you're not voting for libertarians you're throwing your vote away. The two mainstream parties are both owned completely by special interests. They do don't care what the people think, or how their rules effect them. Look at how many supported the bailouts knowing full well that the people didn't want it.
> 
> SOPA? Even in the wake of the entire planet voicing their disgust at the idea, they are insisting they still need to do something similar and just need to find a way to sneak it through. How many times have we seen someone from Congress in the last 48 hours say that SOPA "isn't ready"? Not "It isn't a good idea" but "It isn't ready"! Did no one notice that they picked the day after the black out protest to launch an international manhunt to round up & detain the executives behind megaupload while simultaneously taking down the website? It was to send a message "We will do what we want, and find a way to do it."


I don't recall anywhere mentioning to vote for either party. Why don't you re-read what I said? I said to vote for candidates that are pro-business. I don't care what party they belong to, Libertarian included. And yes, the candidates that voted for SOPA and PIPA need to go as well.

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## sgath92

I am sorry, I didn't mean to make it sound like you were saying republican by "pro-business" but in American politics the two phrases are often used interchangeably and I wanted to show the distinction; particularly when some of the support for this ban came from FL-republicans.

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## Virus

If things keep taking a turn for the worse, I might have to eventually start looking for another place of residence.

I wonder what other countries are big on freedoms?  Particularly my reptiles.   :Good Job:

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