# Site General > Site Info >  Here you are...

## CeraDigital

Since this topic of creating a new thread, when the problem could have been addressed in the current thread, was repeatedly brought up. I will do so now.




> The original point of this thread has been dragged through the mud and beat to death far long enough. Questions have been asked and answered. Anyone reading it is free to come to their own conclusions about who was "right" and who was "wrong" and who the "donkeys" are.


The question wasn't exactly answered. The thread just went back and forth.




> I would like to remind members that if they have a problem with staff, there are ways to address it that do not involve dragging threads off topic and adding more mud to an already difficult situation.


There is the problem. Addressing the problem with staff...because quite frankly, where does it lead? I don't see it going fairly far.




> First and foremost, the very best thing to do if you have an issue with something a staff member has said or done is to address them directly and privately about it. If you truly feel that such contact would go badly, then please feel free to contact any other staff member, whoever you feel most comfortable talking with. We're always glad to work things out. We're not perfect and do make mistakes and work hard to hold each other accountable for genuine errors.


Another problem. Most of the "problems" brought up, if not all, are addressed to all staff, in the administrators/moderators forum, no? As such, how is it being properly handled when its a staff members word, against a simple members word. I see unfair and unequal treatment. A simple turn your back and look the other way.




> If you have some reason for feeling like your complaint MUST be made public, then we have the Site Info forum for you to make a comment in.


Posted.




> I'd like to point out that if the staff here were so completely biased and unreasonable as we've been accused of being, then those accusing members would probably already be gone...or at least have heavy infractions levied against them. But nothing of the sort has happened, because we do respect people's rights to voice their opinions, so long as they are not intentionally trying to undermine the integrity of the site or the staff.


Actually, most I've seen would rather nit pick, and irritate the member. What you all so famously call "bear baiting" I've seen it done. It just happened to me in the BHB thread. What comes of that? Infractions? I don't believe so. Is it removed? No, I don't believe so either. So where is the fairness or justification in this forum?

This forum has claimed to be fairest. I've seen claims of equal treatment. Claims can be made all day long, yet where are the actions? 

How many times has it been brought up that any breeder may be questioned no matter who they are? Yet, whenever one is questioned that seems to be friends with you, or your staff, the individual questioning or inquiring on their practices is attacked. That doesn't seem like equal treatment to me, nor a fair forum.

The question at mind seems to be.... Where is the proof that your forum is very fair, or "fairest" as so claimed?

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_DutchHerp_ (05-18-2009)

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## JLC

> Since this topic of creating a new thread, when the problem could have been addressed in the current thread, was repeatedly brought up. I will do so now.
> 
> 
> The question wasn't exactly answered. The thread just went back and forth.


Which question wasn't answered?  The one about the giant snakes?  That he only has a handful of?  That he already said he had ordered larger housing for?  Or the one about the housing for the monitor?  Where he explained why he fed in a separate tub AND that he no longer even has the monitor to house, however correctly or incorrectly in everyone else's eyes?  

Whether or not you, personally, are happy with those answers, they were given. 





> There is the problem. Addressing the problem with staff...because quite frankly, where does it lead? I don't see it going fairly far.


It went here, didn't it?  I'm taking the time to type out an answer for you.  What, exactly, do you expect us to do?  Turn over the running of the forum to you so that it runs the way you think it should?




> Another problem. Most of the "problems" brought up, if not all, are addressed to all staff, in the administrators/moderators forum, no? As such, how is it being properly handled when its a staff members word, against a simple members word. I see unfair and unequal treatment. A simple turn your back and look the other way.


Either you trust the staff to handle matters with integrity...or you do not.  It's as simple as that.  If you don't trust us, then there is absolutely nothing I can say to make you do so.  All I can do (and all the entire staff can do) is to continue to run the site as best we can, with as much integrity and honesty as is humanly possible.  I'm sorry if that's not good enough for you.  There are lots of other communities to get involved in, and maybe some other staff at some other site will better fit YOUR personal idea of "fair."





> Actually, most I've seen would rather nit pick, and irritate the member. What you all so famously call "bear baiting" I've seen it done. It just happened to me in the BHB thread. What comes of that? Infractions? I don't believe so. Is it removed? No, I don't believe so either. So where is the fairness or justification in this forum?


I'm quite sure you will NOT see my point of view here...but my point of view is the only one I have to offer.  I did not see "bear baiting" in anything that rabernet said in response to you.  Incredulity, maybe.  But I did not see her trying to get a rise out of you and intentionally provoke you into an unreasonable outburst.  

Should the entire site be run on YOUR definition of fairness?  Should we justify all our actions based on YOUR thought processes?  How can we do that?  Not just for you, but for any individual?  All we can do is gather together the most mature, level-headed people who are willing to donate their time and emotional energy to running this site.  We work hard to make sure we hold ourselves accountable to very high standards of behavior, as well as rule creation and enforcement.  We make mistakes...and when we do, we correct them as quickly as possible.  In this one particular instance though, I do not see a mistake having been made.




> This forum has claimed to be fairest. I've seen claims of equal treatment. Claims can be made all day long, yet where are the actions?


So fair and equal are only in your eyes, then?  Our actions are the hours and hours spent each and every day by every single member of this staff to keep the site up and running as smoothly as possible.  Will we occasionally have disagreements with members?  Certainly.  If you think it's possible to run a site like this, with THIS MANY people participating each and every day...to never have some sort of conflict or disagreement, I'd really, really like for you to share with me how that can be.  What's your secret???




> How many times has it been brought up that any breeder may be questioned no matter who they are? Yet, whenever one is questioned that seems to be friends with you, or your staff, the individual questioning or inquiring on their practices is attacked. That doesn't seem like equal treatment to me, nor a fair forum.


Did we allow people to question Brian?  Of course we did.  Did any single member suffer retaliation, infraction, or banning because of their participation in that thread.  No.  Is staff not allowed to agree or disagree as their own opinions warrant?  How is the fact that the overall opinion of the staff goes one way means we don't allow a discussion to continue or happen at all?




> The question at mind seems to be.... Where is the proof that your forum is very fair, or "fairest" as so claimed?


I could ask you the same thing, Andrew.  Where is your proof that it is so awfully unfair?  All this based on the simple fact that we don't agree with you on a topic or two?   :Confused:

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rabernet (05-18-2009)

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## CeraDigital

Another point on fairness. Said "Big snakes, small enclosures" thread is locked, correct? Yet the moderators still post in it. One quoting, and outright attacking the opinion of another member, yet due to the thread being locked, the member cannot defend himself. How is that fair? How does that make this forum "fair" when such is going on?...




> i am sure that franykeno and dsirkle did see that too small enclosures but protecting him cause the want to kiss his butt and because they like him i think, their are 100 pics and movies online to prove that brian keeps alot of his giants in too small enclosures...........
> 
> regards ''jp''





> I kiss nobody's butt, not Brian's and not yours. And since you are sure of the motives of people that you don't know personally and have never met, you demonstrate that you know nothing.

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_scutechute_ (05-20-2009)

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## JLC

> Another point on fairness. Said "Big snakes, small enclosures" thread is locked, correct? Yet the moderators still post in it. One quoting, and outright attacking the opinion of another member, yet due to the thread being locked, the member cannot defend himself. How is that fair? How does that make this forum "fair" when such is going on?...


THAT was a mistake, and I apologize for it.  It is entirely likely that Dale did not realize the thread had been locked.  The "reply" button continues to work as normal for staff members, so it is all too easy to respond in a locked thread if they didn't notice it was locked to begin with.  

I agree with you 100% that staff members should not post in locked threads in order to argue with someone that can't respond back in the same fashion.

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## Creeptastic

Unbelievable...its almost like he thinks he pays to be here...so the admins/mods should do everything to his liking. This is a free forum!!! No one owes you anything. I have been to a TON of forums with absolutely horrid admins/mods...its great here ( I havnt been here too long, I am stating from my personal experience so far). But really, Compared to other forums, this place is great! Atleast you have the option to debate without an instant ban.

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_Bruce Whitehead_ (05-19-2009)

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## CeraDigital

> Which question wasn't answered?  The one about the giant snakes?  That he only has a handful of?  That he already said he had ordered larger housing for?  Or the one about the housing for the monitor?  Where he explained why he fed in a separate tub AND that he no longer even has the monitor to house, however correctly or incorrectly in everyone else's eyes?  
> 
> Whether or not you, personally, are happy with those answers, they were given.


Now when another breeder would have given such answer, they would have probably been ripped apart for "lying" or covering up their story, correct?







> It went here, didn't it?  I'm taking the time to type out an answer for you.  What, exactly, do you expect us to do?  Turn over the running of the forum to you so that it runs the way you think it should?


Or perhaps give better practice towards equal treatment. Would that not be definition of fair? "Equal"






> Either you trust the staff to handle matters with integrity...or you do not.  It's as simple as that.  If you don't trust us, then there is absolutely nothing I can say to make you do so.  All I can do (and all the entire staff can do) is to continue to run the site as best we can, with as much integrity and honesty as is humanly possible.  I'm sorry if that's not good enough for you.  There are lots of other communities to get involved in, and maybe some other staff at some other site will better fit YOUR personal idea of "fair."


What guarantee can you give, other than integrity, to provide a "fair" and "equal" forum? What proof do you have, as has been claimed, that this is a fair, or "fairest" internet forum...







> I'm quite sure you will NOT see my point of view here...but my point of view is the only one I have to offer.  I did not see "bear baiting" in anything that rabernet said in response to you.  Incredulity, maybe.  But I did not see her trying to get a rise out of you and intentionally provoke you into an unreasonable outburst.


 Oh? Practically making fun of my statement. I do believe that would be bear baiting.




> Should the entire site be run on YOUR definition of fairness?  Should we justify all our actions based on YOUR thought processes?  How can we do that?  Not just for you, but for any individual?  All we can do is gather together the most mature, level-headed people who are willing to donate their time and emotional energy to running this site.  We work hard to make sure we hold ourselves accountable to very high standards of behavior, as well as rule creation and enforcement.  We make mistakes...and when we do, we correct them as quickly as possible.  In this one particular instance though, I do not see a mistake having been made.


I had not seen that mistake "corrected". I am not the only individual who had seen that as poking a stick, bear baiting, or making fun. Perhaps you should go and look back on it. 

As for my fairness? Perhaps you should look at what fairness means, before claiming a fair site. 



> air1  [fair]  Show IPA adjective, -er, -est, adverb, -er, -est, noun, verb
> adjective
> 1.	free from bias, dishonesty, or injustice: a fair decision; a fair judge.
> 2.	legitimately sought, pursued, done, given, etc.; proper under the rules: a fair fight.


You preach fairness, yet I have seen other breeders, such as Wes Harris attacked for no reason other than your own justifications. You all were pretty severe on him...please do, tell.... how much do you know of the truth about what went on, other than claims on fauna, or second hand comments, such as the market crashing. How much of the truth did Wes state, when it was shunned, or looked down on and he was called a liar? This is just an example.





> So fair and equal are only in your eyes, then?  Our actions are the hours and hours spent each and every day by every single member of this staff to keep the site up and running as smoothly as possible.  Will we occasionally have disagreements with members?  Certainly.  If you think it's possible to run a site like this, with THIS MANY people participating each and every day...to never have some sort of conflict or disagreement, I'd really, really like for you to share with me how that can be.  What's your secret???


Look at a few other forums, such as CU. Large amount of ACTIVE members. 2 moderators. Nothing such as this going on. Hmmm...obviously those forums are doing something right. Even when something such as a large disagreement goes down, nothing like this happens.




> I could ask you the same thing, Andrew.  Where is your proof that it is so awfully unfair?  All this based on the simple fact that we don't agree with you on a topic or two?


So you cannot answer my question? I've given more than one statement as to how it is not fair. Where is yours?

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_DutchHerp_ (05-18-2009)

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## CeraDigital

> Unbelievable...its almost like he thinks he pays to be here...so the admins/mods should do everything to his liking. This is a free forum!!! No one owes you anything. I have been to a TON of forums with absolutely horrid admins/mods...its great here ( I havnt been here too long, I am stating from my personal experience so far). But really, Compared to other forums, this place is great! Atleast you have the option to debate without an instant ban.


Oh? I've been to plenty of forums since the reptile forums first started forming such as kingsnakes, and Bob Clarks. I've never seen an instant where you could not debate without being banned. All of those forums allow debates...

From what I've seen, all forums are free  :Wink:  Your opinion is your opinion, yet if this is such a great and fair forum, where is the proof of it?

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## AaronP

Andrew I think their merit of being fair has to do with how many users they have that sign up and continue to post here, as well as how many people are on at all hours.  If they were so very unfair they wouldn't be here and for that matter you wouldn't be either.

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_Bruce Whitehead_ (05-19-2009),_waltah!_ (05-19-2009)

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## CeraDigital

> Andrew I think their merit of being fair has to do with how many users they have that sign up and continue to post here, as well as how many people are on at all hours.  If they were so very unfair they wouldn't be here and for that matter you wouldn't be either.


Oh? What about continuing members? How many members have left the forum, or refuse to post? That should reflect the merit of the forum as well  :Wink:

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## Stewart_Reptiles

This is me as a *MEMBER* that has been around for a while. Seems like lately it is very important to reinforce that any staff member is also a member with the right to express their opinion, this time this is not my opinion I am gonna express but I will just ask a few simple questions.

Andrew what I found amazing here is that obviously this is not the first time you complain about this forum or the staff you have done so here, as well as other places, you also made farewell threads numerous times (since I have been a member here)Yet you always come back  :Confused2: 

This confuses me if you hate it so much here why are you always coming back? Is it because of the free ads? The controversy? The drama? 

We know its not because it is a great forum that you like, nor is it about the staff or the way this forum is ran, so why is it?

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_Bruce Whitehead_ (05-19-2009),_piper_ (05-20-2009),_waltah!_ (05-19-2009)

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## Creeptastic

Lol..I guess you havnt been to the forums I have. So many of them, and not all reptile related, where you basically have to walk (type) on eggshells, or its an insta-banned. 

And you know what I meant when I stressed that it is free for all of us to participate in. If you think it is such an unfair place, why not just enjoy your time at the other forums if you arent enjoying it here. You know very well that no matter what anyone says or shows you, you wont say it is fair. There is possibly no way to give you solid proof of that anyways. Again..it is another opinionated conversation. What they think is fair, you may not, what you think is fair, they may not. It will never get solved. The beauty about the internet, is that there are TONS of forums out there to enjoy. If you find that you do not enjoy one, pack up and leave it, even for a little while if you have to. I know that is what I do. No use stressing over an internet forum ( been there, done that).

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## Freakie_frog

Andrew we try our hardest as human beings to run this site in a manner that allows users to be involved to an  non-hostile and educational experiance. 

Like it, Hate it, Stay or Leave..these are your choices..We're not forcing anyone to participate if any member feel's like we aren't providing what they are looking for in their online reptile community, As you said there are many more forums out there. I'm sure that everyone in the end finds one they like I know I have.. This one..

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## JLC

> Now when another breeder would have given such answer, they would have probably been ripped apart for "lying" or covering up their story, correct?


How can someone answer assumptions of hypothetical situations?  I suppose when you see a kitten crossing the road, you would swerve to try and hit it on purpose, right?  Naahhhh...you wouldn't do that, you'd just try and scare it a little...right?  

Brian EARNED the respect afforded him and given to him by the vast majority of the herping community.  If you can't see that, then I am sorry for you. 





> Or perhaps give better practice towards equal treatment. Would that not be definition of fair? "Equal"
> 
> 
> 
> What guarantee can you give, other than integrity, to provide a "fair" and "equal" forum? What proof do you have, as has been claimed, that this is a fair, or "fairest" internet forum...


So, being people of integrity and honesty isn't good enough for you?  :Confused2:  Not sure what else we can be.  Should we LOWER our standards in order to more closely match YOUR idea of "fairness"...to bend the rules for you in the contests...or to unjustly punish someone just because YOU didn't like something they said?






> Oh? Practically making fun of my statement. I do believe that would be bear baiting.


Again, in your eyes, perhaps.  But not in the eyes of the staff.  I'm sorry you disagree with that position. 




> I had not seen that mistake "corrected". I am not the only individual who had seen that as poking a stick, bear baiting, or making fun. Perhaps you should go and look back on it.


I didn't say you were the only one.




> As for my fairness? Perhaps you should look at what fairness means, before claiming a fair site. 
> 
> 
> You preach fairness, yet I have seen other breeders, such as Wes Harris attacked for no reason other than your own justifications. You all were pretty severe on him...please do, tell.... how much do you know of the truth about what went on, other than claims on fauna, or second hand comments, such as the market crashing. How much of the truth did Wes state, when it was shunned, or looked down on and he was called a liar? This is just an example.


What did Wes Harris do to earn the respect of the community BEFORE serious issues cropped up in his business?  The questions put to Wes were done so simply because he had no credibility built up at all.  Why should anyone have given him the benefit of the doubt at the time when he had done nothing to earn such a benefit?  If that one example is the entire extent of your repertoire of our unfairness, then you're trying to balance on a one-legged tripod.




> Look at a few other forums, such as CU. Large amount of ACTIVE members. 2 moderators. Nothing such as this going on. Hmmm...obviously those forums are doing something right. Even when something such as a large disagreement goes down, nothing like this happens.


I'm happy for them!  Truly!  And I'm sure they will be more than blessed to have you make yourself at home over there.   :Smile: 




> So you cannot answer my question? I've given more than one statement as to how it is not fair. Where is yours?


I will let our actions stand for us.  If we're as unfair as you claim us to be, then our membership will leave for the greener pastures of those "other" forums you like so much.  If we drive our membership away due to our own actions, then we will have gotten what we deserve.

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## CeraDigital

> Andrew what I found amazing here is that obviously this is not the first time you complain about this forum or the staff you have done so here, as well as other places, you also made farewell threads numerous times (since I have been a member here)……………………Yet you always come back 
> 
> This confuses me if you hate it so much here why are you always coming back? Is it because of the free ads? The controversy? The drama? 
> 
> We know it’s not because it is a great forum that you like, nor is it about the staff or the way this forum is ran, so why is it?


Numerous times? Hmmm, again on fairness. Lets see.... A while back I would get repeatedly attacked by a certain member, yet when a complaint was made about the harassment, a simple answer was given... "He is entitled to his opinion". Pretty much horse poo if you ask me, if another member is being harassed. Wouldn't you say? I had things going on such as re-enlistment, jobs going down I had to work with a 3rd shift, schooling for the apprenticeship etc that would have kept me from posting. That is why I had made the threads.

I come back and RARELY post. The posts I normally make are about camera equipment, or giants. It's about that simple. How many keepers here are fairly knowledgeable on giants? I am mainly contacted by other members to help out with a thread here or there. I don't regular this forum, nor do I care to.

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## CeraDigital

> How can someone answer assumptions of hypothetical situations?  I suppose when you see a kitten crossing the road, you would swerve to try and hit it on purpose, right?  Naahhhh...you wouldn't do that, you'd just try and scare it a little...right?


Proof could have been posted. It is that simple....




> Brian EARNED the respect afforded him and given to him by the vast majority of the herping community.  If you can't see that, then I am sorry for you.


This does not exempt him from questioning... nor does proof. How many times has Jay Vella been bashed here, or elsewhere for his "practices" without even being contacted? Jav is the largest, and most respected Reticulated Python breeder in the world....




> What did Wes Harris do to earn the respect of the community BEFORE serious issues cropped up in his business?  The questions put to Wes were done so simply because he had no credibility built up at all.  Why should anyone have given him the benefit of the doubt at the time when he had done nothing to earn such a benefit?  If that one example is the entire extent of your repertoire of our unfairness, then you're trying to balance on a one-legged tripod.


Tripods have 3 legs, Monopods have one  :Wink:  How about producing and proving out morphs? Providing prime, healthy, good looking examples of morphs? Wes had been around longer than you think, and did have quite a bit of respect built up... I guess you cannot answer my question.




> I'm happy for them! Truly! And I'm sure they will be more than blessed to have you make yourself at home over there.


Actually, I've been there longer than I have here. It would be a forum one could call home  :Wink: 






> I will let our actions stand for us.  If we're as unfair as you claim us to be, then our membership will leave for the greener pastures of those "other" forums you like so much.  If we drive our membership away due to our own actions, then we will have gotten what we deserve.


If you let your actions speak, you may want to reconsider...

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## JLC

> If you let your actions speak, you may want to reconsider...


I think I've dignified this with as much time as it deserves...more, really.  You have your mind set, and nothing I or anyone else can say will change or sway it.  

Every single member of the site can read this and decide for themselves who is being reasonable and who is not.  I'm happy for them to come to whatever conclusions they think best for themselves.  

I wish you all the best.

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## dsirkle

> THAT was a mistake, and I apologize for it.  It is entirely likely that Dale did not realize the thread had been locked.  The "reply" button continues to work as normal for staff members, so it is all too easy to respond in a locked thread if they didn't notice it was locked to begin with.  
> 
> I agree with you 100% that staff members should not post in locked threads in order to argue with someone that can't respond back in the same fashion.


I did not realize that the thread had been locked. I would not have posted in that thread had I known. I apologize for doing so.

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## Stewart_Reptiles

You know Andrew if it was me and I was unhappy on a forum because of the atmosphere, other members, its staff I would leave and never look back.

YOU chose to be here, no one is forcing you to be here no one is forcing you to agree with the way the forum is ran either, at least you have the ability to express yourself about it, which would not always be the case on other forums.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

The thing is that you cannot please everyone (even the President knows that  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): ), you also cannot make everyone get along, that too is impossible, all you can do is try to maintain peace in all fairness and whether you believe it or not the staff here is definitely trying is best doing so. 

If you think otherwise than maybe there is a community out there that is more suited to YOUR needs maybe you can even create your own communitybut again no one is forcing you to be a member or post here just like no one is forcing me to be here or post here I an doing so because I want to and because I like this community (if I did not I would not be here).

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_Jerhart_ (05-18-2009)

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## CeraDigital

> You know Andrew if it was me and I was unhappy on a forum because of the atmosphere, other members, its staff I would leave and never look back.
> 
> YOU chose to be here, no one is forcing you to be here no one is forcing you to agree with the way the forum is ran either, at least you have the ability to express yourself about it, which would not always be the case on other forums. 
> 
> The thing is that you cannot please everyone (even the President knows that ), you also cannot make everyone get along, that too is impossible, all you can do is try to maintain peace in all fairness and whether you believe it or not the staff here is definitely trying is best doing so. 
> 
> If you think otherwise than maybe there is a community out there that is more suited to YOUR needs maybe you can even create your own communitybut again no one is forcing you to be a member or post here just like no one is forcing me to be here or post here I an doing so because I want to and because I like this community (if I did not I would not be here).


If someone needs help with their camera equipment, photography choices, etc, I am there to help. Same a long the lines of Rock Python aspects. If I take a shot, I take a shot... but to make outright claims that this forum is fair, especially the "fairest"...is different. It was said to take it to site info if you have a problem....well... here I am.





> 3. No Hate Speak. This includes, but is not limited to: cursing; threats of violence; racial, religious, or sexual slurs; personal attacks; bear-baiting; and speech intended to cause or further a "flame war" or personal vendetta. This includes vindictive use of the Reputation System. Ultimately, it will be up to the staff (the mods and ultimately the admins) to determine if any given post or thread has crossed these lines.





> Whatever happened to the photo session you were so excited about at Brian's btw? His integrity didn't seem to be an issue to you then?





> And you cancelled a photo shoot because of monitors in feeding tubs? 
> 
> Seems you could have seen for yourself instead of joining the speculation bandwagon


Hmmmm.... seems to be bear baiting.

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_DutchHerp_ (05-18-2009)

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## stratus_020202

So, why couldn't these questions have been answered in pm's? Why bring them out publicly? You would probably get quicker answers in pm's. Since, you are notified immediately if you have one. 

I am new to this forum, but I know it has been around for a long time. I'm sure if the mods were so unfair it wouldn't be here.

I appreciate all the mods do for us. Look at what happened to Bruce (and if you don't know, you should look it up). This kind of closeness doesn't happen on a lot of forums. This forum is like a family. I can only hope when my children's children get their first herp, this site is here to help them with any/all of their questions.

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## AaronP

> Oh? What about continuing members? How many members have left the forum, or refuse to post? That should reflect the merit of the forum as well


*Currently Active Users: 117 (63 members and 54 guests)*  - Time: 6:46PM EST
*Total members that have visited the forum today: 530* 

Looks to me like enough people like the forum enough for it to stay busy fairly regularly.  Long standing members come and go for various reasons and at the end of the day there is still a large number of people who are regularly on this forum.  I have a universal opinion when it comes to forums:

*If you don't like it leave.*

This isn't my forum, this isn't my "Home" either but I do spend a fair amount of time on here as well as other forums (Including one you practically destroyed my rep on).  If I didn't like those forums I wouldn't visit and post there.  That doesn't mean I agree with everyone or everything that goes on but at the end of the day my _meaningless_ moaning and groaning isn't going to fix anything.

Looking at it from your point of view, I would leave BP.net and not come back, if someone "asks you" to post, why not just ask that person to reference you with a e-mail address or something?  You don't have to visit this forum to answer someone's questions.

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_stratus_020202_ (05-18-2009)

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## CeraDigital

> *Currently Active Users: 117 (63 members and 54 guests)*  - Time: 6:46PM EST
> *Total members that have visited the forum today: 530* 
> 
> Looks to me like enough people like the forum enough for it to stay busy fairly regularly.  Long standing members come and go for various reasons and at the end of the day there is still a large number of people who are regularly on this forum.  I have a universal opinion when it comes to forums:
> 
> *If you don't like it leave.*
> 
> This isn't my forum, this isn't my "Home" either but I do spend a fair amount of time on here as well as other forums (Including one you practically destroyed my rep on).  If I didn't like those forums I wouldn't visit and post there.  That doesn't mean I agree with everyone or everything that goes on but at the end of the day my _meaningless_ moaning and groaning isn't going to fix anything.
> 
> Looking at it from your point of view, I would leave BP.net and not come back, if someone "asks you" to post, why not just ask that person to reference you with a e-mail address or something?  You don't have to visit this forum to answer someone's questions.


Now look at how many of those members have been here a long time? Where did all those "veterans" go? What happened to some of the new people that registered, and left? That should speak the quality of the forum as well...not just how many users are active. How many users log in, browse, and log off without posting?

I don't answer emails regularly, nor browse most forums. A friend will Call, or IM me...sometimes emails that I hadn't seen for weeks, and reply. That is why I post  :Wink:  It's easier for me to simply post the information. I'm typing it up regardless right? Why not simply post myself  :Wink:  Your advice was fairly hard to follow for yourself too, eh? Practice what you preach.

----------


## wolfy-hound

I don't see your example as bear baiting.  You were asked about a photo shoot you talked about publicly.  Maybe you are taking it personally, and reading more intent than was meant?

According to your posts in this thread, it's stating your opinion when it's YOU, but attacking others if it's someone else.  It's unfair if you want to continue saying the same thing over and over in a thread that was allowed to go on and on until it simply became repetitive.

You can't insist on a double standard.  The thread was allowed, and it finally got down to "He's a good guy, he explained about the big snakes and monitors" or "He's a bad guy becuase he showed big snakes and a monitor in small cages".

You either believe he was fixing the issues, and the tub was a feeding tub, or you believe he was lying.  The ones that believe he's a good guy were not being convinced otherwise, and the ones that are convinced he's lying were not being convinced otherwise either.  So what more would you want to happen in that thread? It's been up multiple DAYS.

I feel this is one of the best forums as far as friendly discussion.  Others might have their high points too, but overall, I prefer this one.  I'm sure that you help out here(and elsewhere) with a great deal of very good information about cameras and giants.  But if it does make you so unhappy to see any moderation, then perhaps you should bow out, and continue on forums that have less moderation and allow threads to go on for however long that they do?

The end opinion of me is that I do not try to change how a forum is run, and I don't bash the moderators of any forum.  If I'm unhappy on any certain forum, at some point I leave, and frequent forums that are run more to my liking.  I would hate to think you are making yourself unhappy, just to try to change the moderators of a forum that is successful for most of the members.

Please don't read any of the above with sarcasm.  I really do mean it exactly as written.

----------


## Creeptastic

Man, I am convinced that you are in the same category as trolls. Just trying to start crap. Your signature is proof of that

----------


## stratus_020202

I don't think she's coming back guys if you read under her picture. It's probably better to let this rest for now.  :Smile:  Let's get back to picture scooping  :Smile:

----------


## AaronP

> Now look at how many of those members have been here a long time? Where did all those "veterans" go? What happened to some of the new people that registered, and left? That should speak the quality of the forum as well...not just how many users are active. How many users log in, browse, and log off without posting?
> 
> I don't answer emails regularly, nor browse most forums. A friend will Call, or IM me...sometimes emails that I hadn't seen for weeks, and reply. That is why I post  It's easier for me to simply post the information. I'm typing it up regardless right? Why not simply post myself  Your advice was fairly hard to follow for yourself too, eh? Practice what you preach.


People register and NEVER post on forums ALL the time, that's just the nature of the internet.  Sometimes someone will sign up, ask a question and never post again because the learn to use the "Search" feature.  I am friends with a few people who are veterans on this forum who very rarely post but they visit it as frequently as I do.  

And for the people who did sign up and leave, they fall into my philosophy or forums, they didn't like it and they left.

And practice what I preach? I don't moan and groan on forums and then leave only to come back and stir up the pot some more.  And if you want to bring up what happened on the BLBC, I was banned and later unbanned thus I resumed posting.

----------


## AaronP

> I don't think she's coming back guys if you read under her picture. It's probably better to let this rest for now.  Let's get back to picture scooping


Just for the record, CeraDigital is guy  :Smile: .

----------

_stratus_020202_ (05-18-2009)

----------


## JLC

I'd like to set the record straight about something before public or private speculation gets carried away. 

Andrew (CeraDigital) was banned due to Infraction points earned.  He did NOT earn infractions from this thread (except for two points for cursing).  We let him speak his mind in this thread and will leave his words here for anyone to read and make their own minds up about the fairness or unfairness of the staff. 

But Andrew was not content with that.  He also created a new signature for himself that the staff felt was an intentional effort to undermine our authority and credibility to run this site properly.  I sent him a PRIVATE message letting him know that while we will allow a certain amount of public discussion and questions, he had gone too far with that signature and would earn serious infraction points if he chose to leave it up.  

He chose to leave it up.  He earned the infractions.  And continued to leave it up...and earned more infractions.  At which point, he suggested that we simply make the ban a permanent one (rather than the 30-day temporary ban 100 points usually earns) and that he would be sure to smear us on some forum review program he is participating on. 

That is the end of the story.

----------


## Kenchap

This thread isn't locked? WoW!

----------


## DutchHerp

Banned for speaking his opinion, or so it seems, maybe a little aggressively.

Yeah.

Awesome.

----------

joshthaxton (05-19-2009)

----------


## Stewart_Reptiles

> Banned for speaking his opinion, or so it seems, maybe a little aggressively.
> 
> Yeah.
> 
> Awesome.


Really? is that some kind of accusation or simply your lack of comprehension of the previous post made by Judy?.  :Rolleyes2:

----------


## frankykeno

> Banned for speaking his opinion, or so it seems, maybe a little aggressively.
> 
> Yeah.
> 
> Awesome.


You know Matt you've been around here long enough to know we don't ban people willy nilly for having opinions, disagreeing with staff, etc.  We have a lot of members with strong opinions and that's just fine.  How they express those opinions and whether the choice they make is contrary to the Terms of Service that they agreed to when they joined, is another matter all together.  

Thanks for giving the staff so little credit for making those decisions with the best interest of this whole site in mind.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## DutchHerp

Well well, are we not entitled to our own opinion?  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Sasquatch Art

Hehe Irony 

You know as much as you didn't like his signature, it was his Opinion. 

And he gets Banned for it... his opinion. 

Just seems like a "few" people got upset about what someone thought about them... and they pressed the "red button." Sounds kinda childish.. If you don't like someones opinion embrace it and either share yours or walk away. 

Don't just make the "bad man" go away.

----------

_DutchHerp_ (05-18-2009)

----------


## blackcrystal22

If someone came screaming they were racist, sexist, or homophobic that would also be an opinion.

However, an opinion can also break the TOS. Just as any phrase, remark, or statement could.

----------

_littleindiangirl_ (05-20-2009)

----------


## stratus_020202

You guys are being rediculous. They already stated that it wasn't all points from this thread, only 2 for cursing (fair enough it seems to me).

Do you even know what the sig said? If not then I would probably check yourself. There are rules here just like everywhere else. If they are not followed, people get banned.

It seems to me you guys have problems letting things go. If you don't like the site, go and make your own.

----------


## blackcrystal22

> Well well, are we not entitled to our own opinion?


If your opinion is insulting, rude, or trollish, then no your not entitled to state it. You can keep it in your mind.

I think when people talk about 'opinions' they're just using it as an excuse. You can turn anything you say into an opinion, even if it's the most insulting, rude, and crazy thing you say to someone. All anyone ever says is, "well, it's my opinion". 

Gets us nowhere, and neither did this thread.  :Wink:

----------

_littleindiangirl_ (05-20-2009),_stratus_020202_ (05-18-2009)

----------


## DutchHerp

The sig  line was his opinion!!!

Dear jesus

----------


## stratus_020202

I think you should read Jess's thread again, and then repost.

----------


## stratus_020202

You don't have a problem with it because it isn't insulting you. If the tables were turned, you would feel different.

----------


## DutchHerp

I read the whole thing... even his sig was his opinion, but oh no, opinions matter (for the select few).

----------


## stratus_020202

You're missing the point here Matt. It's not that opinions aren't welcome. If they are insulting it is against TOS. Why is that so hard to understand? Opinions are welcome from everyone, but that doens't mean you should watch what you say. 

Why don't you just pm Judy, or any other superior member?

----------


## Sasquatch Art

Yeah of course certain opinions-statements can be against the TOS. I agree with that.. And with that I think some people need to go back and reread or rewrite the TOS. 

Because trying to simply put yourself out to be the good guy when little smart ass remarks are being made.. You don't really look like the good guy anymore.. Well I guess only in some peoples' eyes.




> You don't have a problem with it because it isn't insulting you. If the tables were turned, you would feel different.


Actually if someone "insults" me in the petty way Andrew supposedly did.. I would walk away. I wouldn't throw a fit because of someones opinion on a forum was different than mine. =/ I mean come on!


I will gladly take my infractions due to language used .

----------


## DutchHerp

> You're missing the point here Matt. It's not that opinions aren't welcome. If they are insulting it is against TOS. Why is that so hard to understand? Opinions are welcome from everyone, but that doens't mean you should watch what you say. 
> 
> *Why don't you just pm Judy, or any other superior member*?


I did.

----------


## Jerhart

In general...


...if you don't like how things are ran here...Leave.

Pretty straight forward.

----------

Creeptastic (05-19-2009),jfreels (07-15-2010),_Jyson_ (05-19-2009),_littleindiangirl_ (05-20-2009),_Shadera_ (05-19-2009),_Spaniard_ (05-19-2009),_stormwulf133_ (05-19-2009),_truthsdeceit_ (05-19-2009),_waltah!_ (05-19-2009)

----------


## stratus_020202

Ok. Then. How would you put the TOS? Let's get some suggestions. I'm sure the Admins wouldn't mind. 

How would you state the rules to keep the site kid friendly, and make everyone feel welcom. It can't be that you can say anything. Maybe we could put up a poll on different rules, and members can vote on them?

We should be able to come to a happy medium. Right?

----------


## Sasquatch Art

I don't care what power someone holds.. The TOS should be followed by everyone.. 

If not, yeah it should be rewrote.

----------


## wilomn

> Ok. Then. How would you put the TOS? Let's get some suggestions. I'm sure the Admins wouldn't mind. 
> 
> How would you state the rules to keep the site kid friendly, and make everyone feel welcom. It can't be that you can say anything. Maybe we could put up a poll on different rules, and members can vote on them?
> 
> We should be able to come to a happy medium. Right?


Actually, no.

There must be authority in charge. While some would do fine with none some would not and those who wouldn't need the protection of rules and regulations which must be enforced consistently.

It's a shame you newbs don't know my past. I used to hear the mod forums humming when I'd join a site. I know what I'm talking about when I say these mods do a damn fine job at a difficult task.

Things are pretty good here and I don't think any changes are needed.

Maybe a little loosening in the Q room, but even that is no big deal.

----------

_blackcrystal22_ (05-18-2009),_dsirkle_ (05-18-2009),_frankykeno_ (05-18-2009),_Ironhead_ (05-19-2009),jfreels (07-15-2010),JLC (05-18-2009),_Jyson_ (05-19-2009),_littleindiangirl_ (05-20-2009),_waltah!_ (05-19-2009)

----------


## Ben Biscy

> In general...
> 
> 
> ...if you don't like how things are ran here...Leave.
> 
> Pretty straight forward.


I'm going to say this from the neutral zone. There are two sides or more in just about everything. Same here on this site. You have the "stuck up" side and the "ghetto" side. I realize both of these are negative terms, but are the views of the "other" side, if you will. "edit" I'm not trying to start anything here, just showing that a general negative attitude is displayed from both angles. "/edit"

Opinions are opinions, but favoritism just isn't right. If you're going to enforce these rules for "one side", you should do so for the "other side" as well. It is not fair to any members to have to worry about which group they choose to associate with, or how they have to mold their posts as not to anger a group into harassment.

Every one has the right to be treated equally.

----------


## wilomn

> I'm going to say this from the neutral zone. There are two sides or more in just about everything. Same here on this site. You have the "stuck up" side and the "ghetto" side. I realize both of these are negative terms, but are the views of the "other" side, if you will. "edit" I'm not trying to start anything here, just showing that a general negative attitude is displayed from both angles. "/edit"
> 
> Opinions are opinions, but favoritism just isn't right. If you're going to enforce these rules for "one side", you should do so for the "other side" as well. It is not fair to any members to have to worry about which group they choose to associate with, or how they have to mold their posts as not to anger a group into harassment.
> 
> Every one has the right to be treated equally.


LOL LOL LOL

Not everyone sees through the same set of blinders you do. It's a common misconception but erroneous nonetheless.

----------


## stratus_020202

> I know what I'm talking about when I say these mods do a damn fine job at a difficult task.


I completely agree. Please don't think for one second that I don't. I was just trying to turn the conversation into a positive curve. Ya know, sugar coating and all. lol.

I was just wondering if it is so easy to write a TOS to keep everyone happy, let's hear how it should be written. It was not an attack on the current TOS.  :Very Happy:

----------


## wilomn

> I completely agree. Please don't think for one second that I don't. I was just trying to turn the conversation into a positive curve. Ya know, sugar coating and all. lol.
> 
> I was just wondering if it is so easy to write a TOS to keep everyone happy, let's hear how it should be written. It was not an attack on the current TOS.


Ahhhh, sounded like you wanted to have the TOS rewritten.

The problem with asking for this stuff is some folks will take it seriously and most will not understand that this is not the first time staff has considered all the things that came up here, some with the very same people, and so get all butthurt when their brilliant ideas are not utilized.

The thing is, none of this is new, it's just new to you.

While ideas are grand, new ideas are few and far between.

----------


## Jerhart

> I'm going to say this from the neutral zone. There are two sides or more in just about everything. Same here on this site. You have the "stuck up" side and the "ghetto" side. I realize both of these are negative terms, but are the views of the "other" side, if you will. "edit" I'm not trying to start anything here, just showing that a general negative attitude is displayed from both angles. "/edit"
> 
> Opinions are opinions, but favoritism just isn't right. If you're going to enforce these rules for "one side", you should do so for the "other side" as well. It is not fair to any members to have to worry about which group they choose to associate with, or how they have to mold their posts as not to anger a group into harassment.
> 
> Every one has the right to be treated equally.


Again..it is straight forward.  Give your two cents and move on.

If you don't like how this site is ran....leave.

A 30 page opinion is a bit ridiculous.

----------


## stratus_020202

> The thing is, none of this is new, it's just new to you.
> 
> While ideas are grand, new ideas are few and far between.


Oh. The funny thing is I'll probably be saying the same thing to another newbie in three years.  :Smile:  And I'll be able to look back and laugh.

----------


## blackcrystal22

> Ok. Then. How would you put the TOS? Let's get some suggestions. I'm sure the Admins wouldn't mind. 
> 
> How would you state the rules to keep the site kid friendly, and make everyone feel welcom. It can't be that you can say anything. Maybe we could put up a poll on different rules, and members can vote on them?
> 
> We should be able to come to a happy medium. Right?


I don't know if you were talking to me or not, but I am quite fond of the TOS on this website. I've seen some pretty nasty Rule sets in my day as well..

Wes, I must say, you really do have a lot of my respect.

----------


## wilomn

> I don't know if you were talking to me or not, but I am quite fond of the TOS on this website. I've seen some pretty nasty Rule sets in my day as well..
> 
> Wes, I must say, you really do have a lot of my respect.


Careful, whatever group I belong to must be a minority and therefore we must be persecuted, and openly respecting me could lead those of dubious intelligence to think you were just like me and, well, that's an interesting twist on the road, isn't it?

No wonder I have such issues, I'm persecuted and didn't even know it.

----------


## stratus_020202

> I don't know if you were talking to me or not, but I am quite fond of the TOS on this website. I've seen some pretty nasty Rule sets in my day as well..
> 
> Wes, I must say, you really do have a lot of my respect.


No no no. lol. I was being sarcastic to the ones who think it's easy to write a TOS.  :Embarassed:  I'm not as good at it as Wes. lol.

----------


## Nate

> I read the whole thing... even his sig was his opinion, but oh no, opinions matter (for the select few).


Yes Matt - opinions are allowed to be expressed, as much as you want. The FACT is, you can only express your opinion to a certain extent until it starts getting disrespectful, rude, and out of line. There are no secrets. The sig that was displayed was an opinion, but a disrespectful opinion and an uncalled for jab at the way we do things here. 

Judy politely PM'd him asking him to remove the signature, because it was disrespectful. He was given an opportunity to do things right, and we gave him the time and the courtesy of a choice instead of out right infracting him. He refused, and was given the consequences he was told he would get. He was disrespectful and THAT is _not_ acceptable here. 





> I did.


And she is responded to you, yes? 

*8:38* -- You PM'd Judy

*9:05* -- You posted an unfounded and complete bogus accusation WITHOUT hearing the truth (actually, Judy already posted the facts HERE.  but you apparently missed that part, and up above I've simply echo'd her previous post )

*9:12* -- Judy responded to you and answered your questions, and many other questions beyond that.

Just setting the record straight.  

Thanks

----------


## Jerhart

> Careful, whatever group I belong to must be a minority and therefore we must be persecuted, and openly respecting me could lead those of dubious intelligence to think you were just like me and, well, that's an interesting twist on the road, isn't it?
> 
> No wonder I have such issues, I'm persecuted and didn't even know it.


This is here is golden. ha.  :Smile: 




...wait....but let's keep this straight...I don't roll with your 'kind'...don't wanna get caught up in any nonsense...

----------


## Ben Biscy

> Again..it is straight forward.  Give your two cents and move on.
> 
> If you don't like how this site is ran....leave.
> 
> A 30 page opinion is a bit ridiculous.


I believe I did just state my opinion. It is ironic, however, that I accidentally hit refresh instead of home, though, and then moved on to read this post.

Stop instigating bs and pretending you are better than anyone else. You aren't.

----------


## blackcrystal22

> Careful, whatever group I belong to must be a minority and therefore we must be persecuted, and openly respecting me could lead those of dubious intelligence to think you were just like me and, well, that's an interesting twist on the road, isn't it?
> 
> No wonder I have such issues, I'm persecuted and didn't even know it.


Twists tend to be much more interesting than long straight highways.  :Good Job:

----------


## Ben Biscy

> LOL LOL LOL
> 
> Not everyone sees through the same set of blinders you do. It's a common misconception but erroneous nonetheless.


I rest my case.  :Very Happy:   :Wink:

----------


## Jerhart

> I believe I did just state my opinion. It is ironic, however, that I accidentally hit refresh instead of home, though, and then moved on to read this post.
> 
> Stop instigating bs and pretending you are better than anyone else. You aren't.


Chill Bro...I just hate when people bicker.

There are newbs joining this site everyday who litter the front page with questions.  Go answer some of their questions instead of acting like your the second coming of Francesco Petrarca.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------

_blackcrystal22_ (05-18-2009)

----------


## wolfy-hound

I find it amazing that people really think they have the right to bash a site ON the site, and then think they should be allowed to continue bashing it, without any consequances.

This is NOT a right.  This is a privately owned site, and techinally the site owner(or his designated moderators) can boot ANYONE off the site at ANY time for ANY reason.  Rules or TOS notwithstanding.

Now having stated that, the TOS are pretty easy to follow.  Stating your opinion is all fine and dandy until your opinion is breaking TOS.  Even THEN the mods did not ban him, but asked him to remove the statement, more than once.  

If people want a unmoderated forum that they can state whatever they want at any time, they'll have to go find one.  On several sites I've been on, you'd have been booted on the first occasion.

----------

_frankykeno_ (05-19-2009),_Jerhart_ (05-19-2009),_Jyson_ (05-19-2009)

----------


## icygirl

> I find it amazing that people really think they have the right to bash a site ON the site, and then think they should be allowed to continue bashing it, without any consequances.
> 
> This is NOT a right.  This is a privately owned site, and techinally the site owner(or his designated moderators) can boot ANYONE off the site at ANY time for ANY reason.  Rules or TOS notwithstanding.


There you go. From what I've seen this site is not a democracy as far as the TOS and staff opinions go...

Not saying whether that's good or bad, but we all signed a contract (TOS) when we joined the site. I think the OP was trying to argue about the following...




> 3. No Hate Speak. This includes, but is not limited to: cursing; threats of violence; racial, religious, or sexual slurs; personal attacks; bear-baiting; and speech intended to cause or further a "flame war" or personal vendetta. This includes vindictive use of the Reputation System. *Ultimately, it will be up to the staff (the mods and ultimately the admins) to determine if any given post or thread has crossed these lines.*


...when it clearly is not up for debate. OP says Robin was bear-baiting, Judy says she wasn't. Judy wins. End of story. YOU agreed to it when you signed up for the site!

----------

Ben Biscy (05-19-2009),_DutchHerp_ (05-19-2009)

----------


## Jenn

For the love of god folks. Jerhart you have probably said the smartest thing on this thread. Let's try to remember that newbs are in fact reading our every word. Hey newbs come join in the fun? 

Come on! Could we all just get back to the business of helping people?

----------

dr del (05-19-2009),_Jerhart_ (05-19-2009),_Wh00h0069_ (05-19-2009)

----------


## Stewart_Reptiles

> Yeah of course certain opinions-statements can be against the TOS. I agree with that.. And with that I think some people need to go back and reread or rewrite the TOS.


So they fit each individual, like your boyfriend for example. Does that mean we would need many versions to accommodate each and every individual of this forum?

Makes sense.  :Rolleyes2: 

Andrew was given a chance, he was asked to change his sig, HE chose not to, therefore he was ready and willing to accept the consequences of his action, should he have changed his sig he would still be a member here having a discussion on this thread with us.

Again posting here is a privilege not a right, you either agree to the TOS and play by the rules or you dont, it's up to each and everyone of us. 


> I don't care what power someone holds.. *The TOS should be followed by everyone..* 
> 
> *If not, yeah it should be rewrote*.


So does that mean they also apply to Andrew or does it means because Andrew disagree we should re-write everything to fit him as a member?  :Confused2: 

Interestingly, I do not see big companies, banks etc re-write their TOS because I or other people disagree with them.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

We must not be living in the same world.

----------


## Creeptastic

I think it is so silly that these people are still on this forum if they think it is so unfair. There are many other forums out there, why not have a look?

----------


## joepythons

> It's a shame you newbs don't know my past. I used to hear the mod forums humming when I'd join a site. I know what I'm talking about when I say these mods do a damn fine job at a difficult task.l.


You have a past  :Surprised:   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): ,do tell  :ROFL:  :ROFL:  :ROFL: .

----------


## AaronP

Wilomn is my new favorite person.

----------


## littleindiangirl

“There are only two tragedies in life: one is not getting what one wants, and the other is getting it.” - Oscar Wilde

----------


## Patrick Long

> So they fit each individual, like your boyfriend for example. Does that mean we would need many versions to accommodate each and every individual of this forum?
> 
> Makes sense. 
> 
> Andrew was given a chance, he was asked to change his sig, HE chose not to, therefore he was ready and willing to accept the consequences of his action, should he have changed his sig he would still be a member here having a discussion on this thread with us.
> 
> Again posting here is a privilege not a right, you either agree to the TOS and play by the rules or you dont, it's up to each and everyone of us. So does that mean they also apply to Andrew or does it means because Andrew disagree we should re-write everything to fit him as a member? 
> 
> Interestingly, I do not see big companies, banks etc re-write their TOS because I or other people disagree with them. 
> ...


Again, I see a mod/admin trying to get a rise out of someone.

Here...Deb knows Andrew is Ashleys BF so of course she is going to take this tone, and try to be-little her. "makes sense "rolleye" " "we must not live in the same world".

I just dont see how its ok for the mods to get away with crap like this.

----------

Ben Biscy (05-19-2009),_DutchHerp_ (05-19-2009),joshthaxton (05-19-2009),_scutechute_ (05-20-2009)

----------


## AaronP

> Again, I see a mod/admin trying to get a rise out of someone.
> 
> Here...Deb knows Andrew is Ashleys BF so of course she is going to take this tone, and try to be-little her. "makes sense "rolleye" " "we must not live in the same world".
> 
> I just dont see how its ok for the mods to get away with crap like this.


Would you prefer someone else say it?  Would that make it okay in your eyes?  Or would you still not like it and just say nothing...

----------


## Patrick Long

> Would you prefer someone else say it?  Would that make it okay in your eyes?  Or would you still not like it and just say nothing...


I dont give a rats arse who says it.

The fact that they can bear bait people and get away with it, while everyone else gets infractions for it.

Is it right, No

Is it Ball-pythons.net, Yes


I just think that the estrogen filled admin team doesnt realize that they hold the biggest double standard.



Im done!

----------

Ben Biscy (05-19-2009),_DutchHerp_ (05-19-2009),joshthaxton (05-19-2009),_scutechute_ (05-20-2009)

----------


## JLC

Pat...please point out one post where a member was infracted for "rolling their eyes" or being a tad bit sarcastic when making a point.  If you can find one, I'll personally reverse it and make a public apology for the entire mess.

----------


## DutchHerp

Pat you speak my mind... too bad I can't give you another rep point, but I'll do it as soon as I can  :Very Happy:

----------

_scutechute_ (05-20-2009)

----------


## AaronP

> estrogen filled admin team


You want to accuse someone of _Bear Baiting_ when you say crap like that?  C'mon Patrick, you're better than that.  If I said that and my fiance found out that I said that, I wouldn't get any 'hugs' for a week.

----------

_truthsdeceit_ (05-19-2009)

----------


## Skiploder

> Again, I see a mod/admin trying to get a rise out of someone.
> 
> Here...Deb knows Andrew is Ashleys BF so of course she is going to take this tone, and try to be-little her. "makes sense "rolleye" " "we must not live in the same world".
> 
> I just dont see how its ok for the mods to get away with crap like this.



There's a perceived difference in a forum member, such as Wes, voicing his feelings in support of Brian in the "giant snake - small enclosure " thread and mods seemingly - and the key word is _seemingly_, coming to Brian's aid.

I have no bone to pic with either the mods (or in general the job they do) or Brian, and I don't keep giant snakes.  I though Andrew's initial comments regarding the size of the afrock enclosure showed that he wasn't out to bash anyone.  

Where the proverbial bone got caught in the throat is with the monitor.  I agree with Andrew and I agree with other varanid keepers that there were some inconsistencies in what what was explained - but in the end, so what?  This has been hashed and re-hased on several forums and the consensus is that as a temporary enclosure it was inadequate and that if the animal was that violent a feeder, that a separate feeding bin was probably a bad idea.   So it was a bad choice all the way around...............period and I don't need anyone to explain or defend it.

I do agree that if another forum member had posted the same video, that they would not have been afforded the same leeway that Brian was..........however, I agree with the assertion that Brian is a dedicated keeper who should be given a bit of freeboard because he's earned it.

So in the end, Brian gets the benefit of the dount because of the reputation he has earned in this community.  I get that and I can live with that.

But having site mods appearing to poke and prod Andrew (example - the shot about Andrew laying aside his integrity for a photo shoot) is a bit harder to swallow.  

People question other people's husbandry skills all the time here, and it's usually done without the mods stepping in to give the target cover.

----------

Ben Biscy (05-19-2009),_DutchHerp_ (05-19-2009),_Patrick Long_ (05-19-2009),_scutechute_ (05-20-2009)

----------


## littleindiangirl

Because arguing about it is productive and will totally get this somewhere...  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------

_stratus_020202_ (05-19-2009)

----------


## Creeptastic

here we go again lol

----------


## littleindiangirl

Ha, reminds me of when Jas, Cue or any other well known member was banned. Such is the wax and wane of forums.

----------


## stratus_020202

Does anyone else think broken records are annoying?

----------


## AaronP

> Does anyone else think broken records are annoying?


YouTube - Lamb chops play-Along

----------


## stratus_020202

:ROFL:

----------


## AaronP

> But having site mods appearing to poke and prod Andrew (example - the shot about Andrew laying aside his integrity for a photo shoot) is a bit harder to swallow.


If you have the balls to call someone out then you're liable for any jab, poke, prod that may come your way.   In the case of Andrew I have 0 sympathy seeing as how he has a history of doing the same thing.  The proof was in the QT Room but the thread seems to have been pruned.

----------


## Jenn

What does estrogen have to do with anything? Are we now going to divide ourselves by gender?

----------


## Sasquatch Art

>.<

I was waiting for the police to come over and poke at me, being the Girlfriend and all. 

Ok lets just be straight forward. I am standing here  because I am so sick of certain Mods/Admins walking around like their _opinion_ doesn't stink. With the "You can't touch me attitude." 

And I am pointing at you Judy.. Oh, and lets not forget your squad.. Hehe That includes you Connie ;}

Speaking of Connie.. I love your artwork. You and of course the selected know what I am referring too. 
 *coughs* Hitler post *coughs*
Where were the infractions and punishment you received for that? I thought this was the fairest forum around. Oh yeah you guys are to good for all that. 

You walk around saying you have this amazing forum but in the background you bear bait, poke, and say these  little  comments to get people going. But no matter what is said you are always going to win and try and make yourselves out as the good guy/right guy. 

I am going with Jerhart.. I am done and this will be my last post on Bp.net. So Judy or whoever.. whether it be squad member, don't waste your time and come at me. 

The thing about the TOS.. That was a smart as way of saying.. If the OWNER cant even follow her damn rules and regulations.. I think you have some major problems...perhaps your standards on regulations are too high?...

----------

Ben Biscy (05-19-2009),_DutchHerp_ (05-19-2009),_Jerhart_ (05-19-2009),_Patrick Long_ (05-19-2009),_scutechute_ (05-20-2009)

----------


## Patrick Long

Amazing how comments from certain people will disappear without as much as a wink.

Siggys get you infractions, but references to Hitler will be automatically deleted at will with no infractions to incur.

Blasphemy


I am literally just at awe right now.


Hands do bleed from gripping double edged swords no?

----------

_scutechute_ (05-20-2009)

----------


## Freakie_frog

Question???

How are you so sure Connie didn't get an infraction for that post???

----------


## AaronP

Sasquatch Art, peace, don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out.  By the way Patrick, everyone who is talking about "Bear Baiting".




> Look back on the kingsnake threads about his monitor caging, and on other forums. Those were possible customers wanting to buy from him, but refuse until they see caging. I would be also. Refusing to accept the fact that this could or could not damage reputation is simple ignorance. *Be a groupie all you want, but simple thing is it shows customer service, pre-purchase.*


Post: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showp...&postcount=236

Robin's Post that everyone threw a hissy fit over:
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showp...&postcount=239

Patrick, your "Bear Baiting" post:
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showp...&postcount=248

I would like to point out, to anyone who doesn't understand my point, that Andrew threw the first peice of bait out.

I'm starting to wonder who actually read that thread.

----------

Creeptastic (05-19-2009),_Spaniard_ (05-19-2009),_stratus_020202_ (05-19-2009)

----------


## snakecharmer3638

Why does any of this surprise anyone???? Of course friends are afforded special treatment. It happens everywhere you go in everything you do, Such is life. If you don't like it you have several options. None of which include changing the TOS of a site that you DO NOT OWN! You can complain about it, you can question it, you can even choose not to deal with it anymore. But in the end you can not change it. This is not your house. You are a guest and if you don't like the host, I say don't let the door hit you.  :Good Job:

----------

_AaronP_ (05-19-2009),Creeptastic (05-19-2009),_Ironhead_ (05-19-2009),_Jyson_ (05-19-2009),_LaFilleClochette_ (05-19-2009),rabernet (05-19-2009)

----------


## joshthaxton

I think Patrick has a very valid point. What good are standards and values if they're not upheld by those who made them? Mods/Admins can always ask for examples of bear baiting etc.., but you can't find them, they mysteriously vanished into thin air. No wait, it must be a bandwidth issue, had to delete it. 

I really don't care how new I am here, standards and values (upholding the TOS ex: no bear baiting) should at LEAST be held up by those in "power."

----------

_Patrick Long_ (05-20-2009)

----------


## AaronP

> I think Patrick has a very valid point. What good are standards and values if they're not upheld by those who made them? Mods/Admins can always ask for examples of bear baiting etc.., but you can't find them, they mysteriously vanished into thin air. No wait, it must be a bandwidth issue, had to delete it. 
> 
> I really don't care how new I am here, standards and values (upholding the TOS ex: no bear baiting) should at LEAST be held up by those in "power."


DOES ANYONE READ THESE THREADS!?!  :Taz:  :Taz:  :Taz: 

Look 2 posts up!

----------


## joshthaxton

I've read the original locked one, and every page of this one. 

I forgot I'm supposed to please everybody, thanks for reminding me.

----------


## Freakie_frog

> Amazing how comments from certain people will disappear without as much as a wink.
> 
> Siggys get you infractions, but references to Hitler will be automatically deleted at will with no infractions to incur.
> 
> Blasphemy
> 
> I am literally just at awe right now.
> Hands do bleed from gripping double edged swords no?





> Question???
> 
> How are you so sure Connie didn't get an infraction for that post???


The only reason I ask Pat is because I know for a fact that users can't see each others infractions.. 

So either 

1: your talking out your backside because you have no clue and are just guessing..

or 

2: you've been given a special privilege by the staff that allows you to see them..

So how is it that you are so sure Connie didn't get an infraction???

Your making these accusations please back them up??

----------

_stratus_020202_ (05-19-2009)

----------


## AaronP

> I've read the original locked one, and every page of this one. 
> 
> I forgot I'm supposed to please everybody, thanks for reminding me.





> Mods/Admins can always ask for examples of bear baiting etc.., but *you can't find them*, they mysteriously vanished into thin air. No wait, it must be a bandwidth issue, had to delete it.





> Post: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showp...&postcount=236
> 
> Robin's Post that everyone threw a hissy fit over:
> http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showp...&postcount=239


I must be a miracle worker, I found one!

----------


## joshthaxton

I've read both of those, what is your point? In regards to the other thread, I personally don't feel that Brian should have had to justify himself. But I also don't keep monitors or giants, so I could honestly care less. As far as the mod/admin thing goes...I've seen "hot" threads go so quick into quarantine its not even funny. In my opinion - which I'm entitled to - that doesn't give people much time to read/voice their opinion on said matter. Especially if someone like myself might only check this site once or twice a day, because I'm busy w/ other, more important things

----------


## stratus_020202

> I've read both of those, what is your point? In regards to the other thread, I personally don't feel that Brian should have had to justify himself. But I also don't keep monitors or giants, so I could honestly care less. As far as the mod/admin thing goes...I've seen "hot" threads go so quick into quarantine its not even funny. In my opinion - which I'm entitled to - that doesn't give people much time to read/voice their opinion on said matter. Especially if someone like myself might only check this site once or twice a day, because I'm busy w/ other, more important things


So, why don't you just ask to get into the quarantine section? 

I have an idea, let's all just lay on the floor and keep kicking and screaming. It worked so well, when we were *CHILDREN*!

----------


## dr del

Hi,

Just a note for everyone else - quarantine is open to *all* members who wish to view it - all you need do is contact a member of the Admin team and ask.

Posts moved to quarantine can still be read and replied to by anyone who wishes to do so.


dr del

----------

_AaronP_ (05-19-2009),_Jyson_ (05-19-2009),_stratus_020202_ (05-19-2009)

----------


## AaronP

> I've read both of those, what is your point? 
> 
> As far as the mod/admin thing goes...I've seen "hot" threads go so quick into quarantine its not even funny. In my opinion - which I'm entitled to - that doesn't give people much time to read/voice their opinion on said matter. Especially if someone like myself might only check this site once or twice a day, because I'm busy w/ other, more important things


*Point:*
You said you can't find any example of "Bear Baiting", so I found one for you. This would be the 3rd time I've said that.

I'm sorry but you can PM any admin for access to the QT Room so I don't understand what threads being moved into the QT Room has to do with anything.

----------


## Spaniard

> Especially if someone like myself might only check this site once or twice a day, because I'm busy w/ other, more important things


Why don't you just subscribe to threads you want to keep track of? This way no matter how many "more important" things pop up you can still keep up to date here  :Good Job:

----------


## joshthaxton

The quarantine point to me is irrelevant. I am simply stating that the fact that threads get mysteriously "pruned" is poppycock. 

I think that the fact that some people's opinions are "ok" while other's are "superior," therefore justified, is a direct definition of a double standard. That's all I'm saying, take what you will. When it all boils down it's _just a forum_

----------


## joshthaxton

> Why don't you just subscribe to threads you want to keep track of? This way no matter how many "more important" things pop up you can still keep up to date here


Look, I'm not trying to sound like I'm more important or better than anyone on here, but when you go to college full time, and work full time, checking a forum isn't really on the top of my to-do list, that's all.

----------


## littleindiangirl

I had NO idea what I linked to was nazi or something! Spaniard just sent me a PM asking about why I posted it, and that it was about nazi's, I really had no clue! 

I just saw their logo that said something along the lines of "No censorship" and "flaming allowed", and I found it to be appropriate for those that wanted to do that, they can go join a site that promotes flame wars.

Really, had NO idea what the site was actually about!

So sorrrrry. 


Oh, and trust me. I have recieved plenty of reprimanding and my own fair share of infractions. Lets not get our panties in a bunch Pat.

----------


## AaronP

> The quarantine point to me is irrelevant. I am simply stating that the fact that threads get mysteriously "pruned" is poppycock.


Mysteriously Pruned?  The forum gets auto-pruned I can't even find my own thread that I created where Andrew was bashing and "bear baiting" me because of it, it's just a part of the forum.




> I think that the fact that some people's opinions are "ok" while other's are "superior," therefore justified, is a direct definition of a double standard


Okay Opinions and "Superior" opinions are a part of everyday life.  Who's opinion on healthcare do you think the nation cares more about?  The Presidents or your next door neighbor?  Last I checked CNN/FOX didn't report on just anyone's opinion of that.  And, as always, if you don't like, can't stand it, and if really makes your butt itch, you can always just not come in here.  You choose to read these threads, you choose to give your opinion, and you choose to allow people to give their opinionated responses to your opinion.

Welcome to the internet, have a seat over there.

For the record Josh, I don't have anything against you, I'm just saying.

----------


## DrLew

_"Why can't we all just get along"_
                             -Rodney King

----------

_TheOtherLeadingBrand_ (05-19-2009)

----------


## JLC

Oohhhhkay.....I'm honestly not sure what I did to deserve such vitriol from Sasquatch  Art.  I'm not going to quote her post because it will be edited shortly to fit our TOS standards, and infractions will be given as they would to anyone posting in that manner.  

You were waiting to be "poked by the police"??? How so, exactly?  Not that I expect an answer, because you said you wouldn't post again.  But I can't help but ask...how were you "poked"??? 

As for Connie...she received the same infraction anyone would have for posting such an inappropriate link.  The link was removed because it was inappropriate for BP.net content and against our TOS.  There was nothing else IN the post to save...it was just the link...so it was deleted.  The same thing has been done countless times before when a post contains nothing but material that has to be deleted anyhow. 

In order for this site to stay up and running, it MUST have a staff, and that staff must have leadership.  I'm quite sure there are some people who will try to point to other sites that run just fine with no staff or leadership...but they are not BP.net and the comparison is useless.  SOMEone has to make judgment calls on matters of enforcing the site's TOS.  The judgment we choose to rely on belong to a carefully selected group of individuals that make up our staff.  It would be utterly impossible to try and customize every judgment call to each of the _thousands_ of individuals that participate here.  We can't use Pat's standard of judgment...or Andrew's...or Connie's...or Aaron's...or anyone else's, because they're ALL very different and they ALL come from a point of view that is completely lacking in the knowledge of what is going on behind the scenes. 

We get accused of never admitting or correcting mistakes...but when that exact thing happens moments later, the person making such an accusation says nothing.  We get accused of having double-standards with regards to bear-baiting infractions.  And yet when challenged to show a single example where a member was unfairly infracted for bear-baiting because of a "rolling eye" or sarcastic tone....we get nothing.  We get accused of playing favorites for someone like Connie, who was infracted and dealt with in the exact same manner as anyone else would have been in the exact same situation.  

I'm quite honestly sick and tired of trying to defend every little action or word.  It doesn't matter one whit what we say or do, those that don't want to trust us to do our job won't trust us.  Those who want to criticize will find plenty to pick at because we're just humans.  I'm not saying our poo doesn't stink, but I WILL NOT back down and whimper just because someone doesn't like something myself or a staff member has done.  There have been plenty of times in our history where we have made mistakes, and when we do, we immediately rectify and apologize.  Infractions have been reversed.  Threads or comments restored.  Public and/or private apologies made to members that have been wronged in some way.  But just because we don't jump to apologize when YOU say we should does not mean we never do or will.  

This site will continue just fine without the participation of the folks that despise the leadership so much.  If you can't trust us to run the site, then please, step up and let your voice be heard and we will make that little problem go away really fast for you.  Count on it.

----------

_Ironhead_ (05-19-2009),_stratus_020202_ (05-19-2009),_TheOtherLeadingBrand_ (05-19-2009),_waltah!_ (05-19-2009)

----------


## joshthaxton

> Mysteriously Pruned?  The forum gets auto-pruned I can't even find my own thread that I created where Andrew was bashing and "bear baiting" me because of it, it's just a part of the forum.
> 
> 
> 
> Okay Opinions and "Superior" opinions are a part of everyday life.  Who's opinion on healthcare do you think the nation cares more about?  The Presidents or your next door neighbor?  Last I checked CNN/FOX didn't report on just anyone's opinion of that.  And, as always, if you don't like, can't stand it, and if really makes your butt itch, you can always just not come in here.  You choose to read these threads, you choose to give your opinion, and you choose to allow people to give their opinionated responses to your opinion.
> 
> Welcome to the internet, have a seat over there.
> 
> For the record Josh, I don't have anything against you, I'm just saying.


Thank you. I also do not have a personal problem against you. I am just trying to state that while these things may happen every day, it does not make them right. 
I know that the world is not fair blah blah blah, but I'm just simply stating  the fact that one's opinion can be superior to another is contradicting of itself. An opinion is an opinion, no single one better or more justified than the other

----------


## AaronP

> _"Why can't we all just get along"_
>                              -Rodney King


_If you must break the law, do it to seize power: in all other cases observe it._
*~Julius Caesar*

----------


## littleindiangirl

Lol. How did I suddenly get in this so called "estrogen squad"? Oh, because I'm a woman, and I posted in this thread?! Lolz.

I should have known! Standing up for someone (Brian, in that other thread) means I am totally in a clique, and I should be labeled in this imaginary squad. 

I've been called worse.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

I feel like I'm back in highschool again. Yet, back then, I didn't really care what clique people put me in or what labels... so? What's your point? Ashley apparently feels I have done something to her, I'm ignorant to what it could _possibly_ be.

I wish people would let me know when the different cliques we're doing roll call, I want to know what else I'm in!  :sploosh:

----------


## AaronP

> Lol. How did I suddenly get in this so called "estrogen squad"? Oh, because I'm a woman, and I posted in this thread?! Lolz.


Don't worry, truth of the matter is most the people posting in this thread are guys so we got you beat on Testosterone  :Wink: .  Tell 'er Ed!

----------


## Freakie_frog

I've been nutered (most guys don't know that happens in the little room with the minister before the vows. Really what groomsmen are for is to hold the groom) so no more testostarone for me..  :Very Happy:

----------


## Patrick Long

> The only reason I ask Pat is because I know for a fact that users can't see each others infractions..


Thats BS. You can see a Red square on the post...thats ONE way to tell. You can also see under the users name if refractions have been received and how many points they are worth. That is the SECOND way to tell if someone has received infraction.




> Oh, and trust me. I have recieved plenty of reprimanding and my own fair share of infractions. Lets not get our panties in a bunch Pat.


I before E except after C...LOL

As far as my panties...its Tuesday lady panties are a Thursday thing

----------

_scutechute_ (05-20-2009)

----------


## stratus_020202

> I've been nutered (most guys don't know that happens in the little room with the minister before the vows. Really what groomsmen are for is to hold the groom) so no more testostarone for me..


 :ROFL:  Hahahahaha. 

That must put Wes in the estrogen squad as well. Can't wait to hear his response on that. Is it ok to have good bear-baiting?

----------


## AaronP

> Thats BS. You can see a Red square on the post...thats ONE way to tell. You can also see under the users name if refractions have been received and how many points they are worth. That is the SECOND way to tell if someone has received infraction.


She has Infractions you know...

----------


## AaronP

> She has Infractions you know...


Actually I was informed that 1/0 = 1 warning, so patty she can PM you a screenshot or something of her infractions.

----------


## littleindiangirl

> Thats BS. You can see a Red square on the post...thats ONE way to tell. You can also see under the users name if refractions have been received and how many points they are worth. That is the SECOND way to tell if someone has received infraction.
> 
> 
> 
> I before E except after C...LOL
> 
> As far as my panties...its Tuesday lady panties are a Thursday thing


Oh yes, my estrogen was getting in the way of my spelling. All apologies dear, lol.

----------


## catawhat75

I would like to know how we can go from a community that pulls together to help a fellow member after a tragedy to this type of community. It all makes me sick and completely ashamed. 

I stay to the edges of this group- I am not a member of what some call the popular ones who some think control this group, nor am I on what is lately seen as "the other side" or an @ss kisser. I come here to learn, to share what small amount of knowledge I have and to talk to people who understand my addiction. I try my darnest to stay out of hot button issues and to respect others. 

But...I have to say this. If you don't like how things are run and hate this place that much, please LEAVE! Threads like this are wrong on so many levels. I can only imagine being a new person to this site. 

I don't always agree with the management team but for the most part, they do a great job with a site of this size. I would like to see some of you who are complaining (and tend to start issues alot more than other members- I think you guys just like to cause problems but that is just my opinion) try to do a better job. 

Quite frankly, most people are making complete idiots of themselves with these threads.

----------

Creeptastic (05-19-2009),_Ironhead_ (05-19-2009),VegaBP (05-19-2009),_Wh00h0069_ (05-20-2009)

----------


## wilomn

To the left just a bit is another opinion on this....stuff.

It comes up from time to time on all forums. Several have mentioned it in this thread. It's part of community growth.

What the staff does with this situation, and it's not unique either now or here, is what determines whether a site lives or dies.

Other than me, and I'm not really, no one is perfect. 

Pat, who's a good guy with a good brain, even if it is in the jar more often than not, has an opinion about staff. To him, it's valid. Staff, or those who have posted an opinion, differ with him.

But, unless I've missed something, he's still here, still welcome here, still a member of this community. I can see his point, understand how he arrived there, I just don't happen to agree with him THIS time. Uh oh, maybe we're not friends anymore. (yeah, some of this thread is that stupid)

Guys, as much as it's real, it's not real life, it isn't life or death. 

Both ashley and her boyfriend were asking for what they got.

Teased and questioned with barbed humor.

Yes, wounded unto death by it, the both of them were.

That's why they kept coming back.

Let's talk about fair for a minute here.

Some of you keep throwing out that this is the fairest site on the net. WHO has said that? I don't see any BPnet bumper stickers making this claim. I have yet to see cotton covered rubber melons proclaiming that the fairest of them all is BPnet. It's not on anyone's signature that I've seen.

So, where is this statement coming from? 

I'll say this, BPnet is one of THE fairest. Don't know about #1 for all around equality, but they're in the top few. 

What is WRONG WITH THAT? That's pretty damn good, to be at the top, even really close to it is fine. 

So, complain, explain, disdain, refrain and sustain but, before you go slamming yourself in the ass with a door, consider this; why are you here?

No one has claimed perfection. In fact, I've seen the exact opposite.

If no one has claimed a thing is to be found here, then those of you pissing and moaning about not finding what isn't here really need to have another look at your goal and see if you're on the road to its acquisition or caught in a cul-de-sac, swirling endlessly and for no good reason.

----------


## Patrick Long

Thats it, WE ARE NOT FRIENDS!

----------


## wilomn

OH MY GOD (the belief in whom I have serious issues with) How the BLOODY HELL did I, Me, WILOMN, become the ratchety voice of reason.

I knew I shouldn't have eaten  that cookie. But it was so round and brown and made such promises.....

----------

_blackcrystal22_ (05-19-2009),_waltah!_ (05-19-2009)

----------


## DutchHerp

> >.<
> 
> I was waiting for the police to come over and poke at me, being the Girlfriend and all. 
> 
> Ok lets just be straight forward. I am standing here  because I am so sick of certain Mods/Admins walking around like their _opinion_ doesn't stink. With the "You can't touch me attitude." 
> 
> And I am pointing at you Judy.. Oh, and lets not forget your squad.. Hehe That includes you Connie ;}
> 
> Speaking of Connie.. I love your artwork. You and of course the selected know what I am referring too. 
> ...


She got banned, for this?

Or am I missing something?

----------


## dr del

Hi,

I edited that post after the infractions Matt - same as I do with every other post with censor smilies or unacceptable language.

It is noted at the bottom of the post along with the reasons for the edit.


dr del

----------


## wilomn

> She got banned, for this?
> 
> Or am I missing something?


As has proven not at all uncommon of late, you are missing something.

----------

_blackcrystal22_ (05-19-2009),_waltah!_ (05-19-2009)

----------


## DutchHerp

> Hi,
> 
> I edited that post after the infractions Matt - same as I do with every other post with censor smilies or unacceptable language.
> 
> It is noted at the bottom of the post along with the reasons for the edit.
> 
> 
> dr del


I read the original post, I quoted what was left.

Again, my question applies.

----------


## Creeptastic

Why should it matter to you even if she did? The tone I am getting from that post just implies that you want to stir up yet another reaction. Can you not tell from her post that she wanted to leave..said she was leaving on her free will

----------


## DutchHerp

No, I'm just wondering, because she is voicing her opinion.  And I'm just asking if that one post got her banned.

----------


## wilomn

> No, I'm just wondering, because she is voicing her opinion.  And I'm just asking if that one post got her banned.


Which has been answered. 

More than once.

Shall we type slower for you or can you keep up on your own?

----------


## DutchHerp

> Which has been answered. 
> 
> More than once.
> 
> Shall we type slower for you or can you keep up on your own?


Yeah that might stick, considering I'm such an idiot, no?

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## wilomn

> I'm such an idiot, no?


You'll find no argument to that here.

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## dr del

Hi,




> ....... because she is voicing her opinion.  ......


No Matt, she was being disrespectful and using language we do not allow on the site.

We do not moderate your opinions, never have - never will. What ideas you allow to roam inside the privacy of your own head are entirely your own affair.

We *DO* moderate what you choose to type on the site in accordance with the rules you agreed to when you joined.

If you do not see the distinction between those two concepts I really do not know what to do or say.

And if you find the limits imposed on you here too restrictive to bear then by all means seek alternatives.


dr del

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## Kenchap

I showed Jas that post. He wanted me to share his feelings with you>

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_scutechute_ (05-20-2009)

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## dr del

Hi,

Then I hope he also offers to share the infraction points with you.


dr del

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## Kenchap

> Hi,
> 
> Then I hope he also offers to share the infraction points with you.
> 
> 
> dr del


Hey, It's not my fault he used my keyboard.. Be "fair" here.

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## dr del

Hi,

I infracted the account responsible - not the banned user who surely knows better than to post on the site.


dr del

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## Kenchap

> Hi,
> 
> I infracted the account responsible - not the banned user who surely knows better than to post on the site.
> 
> 
> dr del


ok, as long as it was just my account being infracted and not me it's ok. Good jod mister mod! :Good Job:

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## Freakie_frog

> Hey, It's not my fault he used my keyboard.. Be "fair" here.





> 1. Agreement to Terms. *By using this Site, you signify that you agree to these Terms of Service*. In addition, when using particular services available on this Site, you will be subject to any posted guidelines or rules applicable to such services which can be found at: (link to Forum Rules) http://ball-pythons.net/forums/anno...nnouncementid=2 . All such Site Rules are hereby incorporated by reference into the Terms of Service. If you do not agree to the Terms of Service or any of the Site Rules, please do not use the Site. We reserve the right, at our discretion, to change, modify, add, or remove portions of the Terms of Service or the Site Rules at any time. Please check these Terms of Service and the Site Rules periodically for changes. Your continued use of the Site after the posting of changes will mean you agree to abide by those changes.





> 9. Termination.* You agree that the Admins*, at their discretion, *may terminate any account (or any part thereof) you may have with us or use of the Site and remove and discard all or any part of your account or any Submissions, for any reason whatsoever at the Admins’ discretion*. The Admins may also at their discretion and at any time discontinue providing access to the Ball-Pythons.Net, or any part thereof, with or without notice. You agree that any termination of your access to the Site or any account you may have or portion thereof may be effected without prior notice, and you agree that the Admins shall not be liable to you or any third-party for any such termination.


I wonder how many people honestly read the TOS through..Just saying  :Good Job:

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## Kenchap

> Hi,
> 
>  not the banned user who surely knows better than to post on the site.
> 
> 
> dr del


HI!

Jas Again, Um what does that mean? I know better?

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_scutechute_ (05-20-2009)

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## Kenchap

> I wonder how many people honestly read the TOS through..Just saying


I never do! Just sayin! :sploosh:

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## Creeptastic

I'm confused now..who is Jas, and why so immature?

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## Jerhart

People are droppin like flies around here....

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## wilomn

> People are droppin like flies around here....


Natural to any spot that's had a much live crap dropped on it as has been done here the last few days.

It's good that most flies have such short lifespans but it's a pain sweeping out the carc ASSes.

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## Bruce Whitehead

> No, I'm just wondering, because she is voicing her opinion.  And I'm just asking if that one post got her banned.


Matt, I have been sitting back the last few days attempting to follow on the absolute nonsense occurring on this site and admit I am failing miserably at it.

But what has been the worse thing to see, is how people are wandering around stirring up the pot, questioning everything, and asking for explanations/validations (that are only asked to place doubt and to question other's integrity).

Anyone who has been banned from participating in this forum has worked very hard at it, has encouraged it, welcomed it and pursued it.

I would suggest a quick googling of "self-fulfilling prophecy".

They are no martyrs in this virtual drama, but many are being played. Yourself included. 

You have chosen to immerse yourself steadfastly into ages old politics that people are CHOOSING to bring to this site and in agendas that are long standing.

I say this with respect and hope you can see the merit in it... but perhaps it is time for yourself (and many others) *to sit down and type something about a snake?*

Bruce

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ballpythonluvr (05-21-2009),_blackcrystal22_ (05-19-2009),_Buttons_ (05-20-2009),Creeptastic (05-19-2009),_Ironhead_ (05-19-2009),_littleindiangirl_ (05-20-2009),rabernet (05-19-2009),Stewart_Reptiles (05-19-2009),_stormwulf133_ (05-19-2009),_stratus_020202_ (05-19-2009),_waltah!_ (05-19-2009)

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## waltah!

I for one, feel the mods/admins do an amazing job with this site. I belong to tons of forums, and I see people throwing their weight around, but I don't really ever see it here. If some members don't like it, they can leave. It's a simple as that. I don't really understand what's so hard about that. I've never seen so many people complaining about the staff here, and it's a small group that has actually done most of the complaining. You know darned well when you say certain things infractions will follow. I've had my infraction points in the past and deserved em all. Going out of your way to question their integrity in the open forum or through PM is just you trying to stir up trouble. I don't need to be informed of what my opinion should be through PM or openly. I'm perfectly capable of making my own informed decisions and forming my own opinions. People that were banned were banned for a reason. How many folks have you even actually seen get banned over the last couple of years? Not many compared to other sites. I think that say a ton for the staff here and how they handle things.

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_Bruce Whitehead_ (05-20-2009),_dsirkle_ (05-19-2009)

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## Jason Bowden

No complaints!

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_Bruce Whitehead_ (05-20-2009)

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## AaronP

> *to sit down and type something about a snake?*
> 
> Bruce


This is my Ball Python. 
There are many like it but this one is mine. 
My Ball Python is my best friend. 
It is my life. 
I must master it as I must master my life. 
Without me, my Ball Python is useless. 
Without my Ball Python I am useless. 
I must raise my Ball Python true. 
I must care for my Ball Python better than anyone, who is trying to out do me. 
I must out do them before they out do me. 
I will. 
Before the Flying Spaghetti Monster I swear this creed: my Ball Python and myself are defenders of my reputation, we are the masters of our competitors, we are the saviors of my life. So be it, until there are no competitors, but peace. Amen.

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_Bruce Whitehead_ (05-20-2009)

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## blackcrystal22

I just wanted to let you all know I love all of you.

I also love ball pythons, hence the reason I'm here on this forum that lacks a particular amount of 'forum trash' that most forums have an abundance of. This, here, is an example of forum trash, though there are quite a few good well spoken words as well. Those, I take to heart.

Now. To drop some trash, and move on to ball pythons.  :Good Job:

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_Bruce Whitehead_ (05-20-2009),_joepythons_ (05-20-2009)

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## joepythons

> I just wanted to let you all know I love all of you.
> 
> I also love ball pythons, hence the reason I'm here on this forum that lacks a particular amount of 'forum trash' that most forums have an abundance of. This, here, is an example of forum trash, though there are quite a few good well spoken words as well. Those, I take to heart.
> 
> Now. To drop some trash, and move on to ball pythons.


Hi i love pie how about you  :ROFL:   :ROFL:   :ROFL:

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_Bruce Whitehead_ (05-20-2009)

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## joepythons

> This is my Ball Python. 
> There are many like it but this one is mine. 
> My Ball Python is my best friend. 
> It is my life. 
> I must master it as I must master my life. 
> Without me, my Ball Python is useless. 
> Without my Ball Python I am useless. 
> I must raise my Ball Python true. 
> I must care for my Ball Python better than anyone, who is trying to out do me. 
> ...


LMAO!!!!  :ROFL:  :ROFL:  :ROFL:

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## joepythons

> People are droppin like flies around here....


So thats what that smell is  :Surprised:   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):   :Razz:

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## wolfy-hound

Almost every forum ends up with one of these threads every so often.  Generally it's because someone wants to be dramatic while leaving.  They've already made up their mind about whatever reason they're leaving, so the thread is useless, but they feel the need to be KICKED out, rather than just leave.

The response to the girlfriend was unprofessional, and baiting in the wording.  I was disappointed to see that post.  She was going to leave anyway, it was clear, and she was disrespectful in her post, that was clear.  But the response was taunting and disrespectful, and I would have hoped to see a more professional sounding moderate response.

Since she was only here to throw one last defense of her boyfriend, it's little loss.  It's sad that the OP felt the need to leave, since I'm sure he has valuable knowledge to share.  But it's his decision to leave and share his knowledge and opinions elsewhere.  I'm certain the site will survive without him.

Even this forum will have these little flare ups from time to time, it's the nature of a internet forum site.  It's how it's handled that matters.  Most users will probably glance at it, think 'Oh internet dramas' and go back to the threads about snakes and frogs and turtles that interest them, so I doubt it will affect anything in the long run.  

*Yawns* I'll go check the chatbox and see who wants to say Good Morning now.

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