# Ball Pythons > BP Breeding >  Desert Female Update

## Cross Exotics

As promised, I'm keeping my word and providing you with an update on the clutch from my Citrus Pastel Desert. This is from the FIRST and ONLY proven Citrus Pastel Desert female. ** Disclaimer - Don't breed your Desert females and please be respectful with answers towards each other. ** Thank You. This was a duo sired clutch of (6) total eggs. Mother was Citrus Pastel Desert bred to a Pastel Calico and Mystic. Super Citrus Pastel Calico Desert the "Oasis", Citrus Pastel Mystic Desert, Super Citrus Pastel (possible Desert), Pastel, Calico, Mystic. This clutch was hatched on 08-29-13. Also a special thanks to Amir for his support and assistance. 

Super Citrus Pastel Calico Desert  "Oasis"



Citrus Pastel Mystic Desert 




Super Citrus Pastel (poss Desert)



Pastel



Calico



Mystic



https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003580373364


Thank You, 

Joe

Cross Exotics

----------

_alan12013_ (07-02-2014),_AlexisFitzy_ (06-25-2014),_decensored_ (09-09-2013),_don15681_ (09-08-2013),_Jason Bowden_ (09-10-2013),PitOnTheProwl (09-08-2013),_Ridinandreptiles_ (06-25-2014),_T&C Exotics_ (09-08-2013)

----------


## satomi325

Congrats on a healthy clutch!
They are very amazing looking hatchlings! 

How can you tell there is desert in the first animal? From the reduced pattern?
Does desert negate the effects of calico since super pastel calicos usually have that washed out/sand blasted look to their patterns as well?

Again, congratulations.  :Smile:

----------


## T&C Exotics

I have not seen many Deserts or crosses in person but from what I have seen and what I see here I say you nailed it and you got the female to produce... Now if only we could know the secrets. Congrats they are all beautiful and you are extremely lucky to have them. If I was you I would hold each and every one back to try to get some more females that produce. Maybe you got one that will and by making a line from her you could possibly get more that do.

----------


## Jam Reptiles

I thought Oasis was a desert fire Mojave? Congrats on the clutch

----------


## rcjgm5

Congratulations, they are beautiful.

----------


## kat_black181

Beautiful babies!

----------


## sho220

I'm not seeing Desert in any of them...I've never hatched a desert or desert combo though so I probably have no idea what I'm talking about... :Very Happy: 

Great looking babies though.  Any pics of the parents?

Congrats!

----------

_AlexisFitzy_ (06-25-2014),_Coleslaw007_ (09-11-2013),_dillan2020_ (09-08-2013),_Mike41793_ (09-08-2013),_Ridinandreptiles_ (06-25-2014),_satomi325_ (09-08-2013),_STjepkes_ (09-08-2013)

----------


## Cross Exotics

> I thought Oasis was a desert fire Mojave? Congrats on the clutch


I stand so very corrected, Oasis was taken so back to the drawing board. I'll post pics of the parents later, but mom is my avatar at the moment. Thanks for the comments too  :Very Happy: 

Sent from Cross Exotics

----------


## Mr Oni

:Popcorn: 

Congrats

----------


## Neal

Those are some stunning hatchlings. Congrats.

----------


## Cross Exotics

The two sires for the clutch. 

Mystic male 




Pastel Calico

----------

_Jason Bowden_ (09-10-2013)

----------


## PitOnTheProwl

The CPMD is  :Bowdown:  :Bowdown:  :Bowdown:  :Bowdown:

----------


## interloc

I thought you couldn't have 2 fathers for one egg? Pretty babies none the less.

----------


## joebad976

> I thought you couldn't have 2 fathers for one egg? Pretty babies none the less.


I don't see it listed anywhere that he has 2 fathers for the same egg. It was a multi sired clutch meaning the calico and mystic both fertilized some of the eggs hence the results he is seeing.

OP: Congrats they look great. Nice variety in that clutch.

----------


## interloc

Oops. I read citrus pastel mystic desert as 4 genes instead of 3. My bad. Ignore the previous post

----------


## Dave Green

Sorry, but I don't see Desert in any of those animals.

----------

_brobertson_ (09-08-2013),_Coleslaw007_ (09-11-2013),_cory9oh4_ (09-10-2013),_dillan2020_ (09-08-2013),_Emilio_ (09-08-2013),h00blah (10-05-2013),hig (09-08-2013),_I-KandyReptiles_ (09-08-2013),_iCandiBallPythons_ (09-08-2013),_JMinILM_ (09-08-2013),Kaorte (09-10-2013),_Mike41793_ (09-08-2013),rabernet (09-08-2013),_Ridinandreptiles_ (06-25-2014),_satomi325_ (09-08-2013),_Simple Man_ (09-10-2013),_STjepkes_ (09-08-2013),_zach_24_90_ (09-08-2013)

----------


## Emilio

> Sorry, but I don't see Desert in any of those animals.



I agree.

----------

Kaorte (09-10-2013)

----------


## snakesRkewl

I agree, no deserts in there ...

----------

_Coleslaw007_ (09-11-2013),Kaorte (09-10-2013),_zach_24_90_ (09-08-2013)

----------


## rabernet

> Sorry, but I don't see Desert in any of those animals.


I'm afraid I don't either. 

Sent from my Samsung Note II using Tapatalk 2

----------

Kaorte (09-10-2013),_zach_24_90_ (09-08-2013)

----------


## satomi325

Yeah. I don't see desert either, which is why I asked how they identified desert.

Nice babies, either way.

----------


## TheSnakeGeek

i'm not seeing desert either? but what do i know? lol i think if you really want to lay everyone's doubts aside (and before you go naming it your own "line"), you need to get a straight up wild type male to breed to her, and produce single gene deserts.

----------

*bcr229* (09-10-2013),_BHReptiles_ (09-08-2013),_Coleslaw007_ (09-11-2013),_cory9oh4_ (09-10-2013),heylookitsjon (09-08-2013),Jam Reptiles (09-08-2013),_Ridinandreptiles_ (06-25-2014),_zach_24_90_ (09-08-2013)

----------


## satomi325

> i'm not seeing desert either? but what do i know? lol i think if you really want to lay everyone's doubts aside (and before you go naming it your own "line"), you need to get a straight up wild type male to breed to her, and produce single gene deserts.


I agree with this.



Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

----------

_zach_24_90_ (09-08-2013)

----------


## Jam Reptiles

> i'm not seeing desert either? but what do i know? lol i think if you really want to lay everyone's doubts aside (and before you go naming it your own "line"), you need to get a straight up wild type male to breed to her, and produce single gene deserts.


 I agree with this also

----------


## Mike41793

I don't see desert in any of those babies. I think Amir made a mistake. 

Before i get stoned to death by an angry mob... NO i am NOT saying amir's a bad breeder or shady or a ballerina or anything else people want to infer. I'm simply saying that i believe he made a mistake with the dam's genetics. Shes just a pastel, no desert in there.

----------

Jam Reptiles (09-08-2013),_zach_24_90_ (09-08-2013)

----------


## BHReptiles

> i'm not seeing desert either? but what do i know? lol i think if you really want to lay everyone's doubts aside (and before you go naming it your own "line"), you need to get a straight up wild type male to breed to her, and produce single gene deserts.


I also agree with this as well as what Mike said. I think to truly know, without ANY doubt, you need to breed her to a normal male. Then you will ONLY get deserts, citrus pastels, and citrus pastel deserts if she truly is a citrus pastel desert. Once you do that breeding trial this season, then you go go naming your own line, world's first, whathaveyou. If she doesn't produce any single gene deserts (because those are pretty obvious if you hatch one), then you can reevaluate the dam's genetics. Big breeders do make mistakes. Honestly, once you get more than 3 or any combination of close-in-color genetics into play, things can start to get a little muddy.

----------

_cory9oh4_ (09-10-2013),Jam Reptiles (09-08-2013),Zuma22 (09-10-2013)

----------


## grcforce327

> I think to truly know, without ANY doubt, you need to breed her to a normal male. Then you will ONLY get deserts, citrus pastels, and citrus pastel deserts if she truly is a citrus pastel desert.


Possibly,not"ONLY"! What about normals?

----------


## BHReptiles

> Possibly,not"ONLY"! What about normals?


Well, yes, you can get normals. I was mostly referring to the only morphs you will get. I forget that people on this forum are horribly nit picky and uptight about that.

----------

_AlexisFitzy_ (06-25-2014),_Coleslaw007_ (09-11-2013),_cory9oh4_ (09-10-2013),_Cross Exotics_ (09-08-2013),_Mike41793_ (09-08-2013)

----------


## Cross Exotics

No arguments with anyone guys and I wish a single gene Desert had shown as well for total confirmation. I totally see all points being made, and I'm not saying what I have isn't what I have. I do thank you all for the input and I'll keep you informed with the progress as I have said before.  :Smile:  

Thank You.

----------


## zach_24_90

No deserts there. She's just a funky pastel. It happens.

----------


## OhhWatALoser

> Well, yes, you can get normals. I was mostly referring to the only morphs you will get. I forget that people on this forum are horribly nit picky and uptight about that.


Nit picky would be pointing out you used the word mostly when it shouldn't of been used at all  :Smile: 

Someone corrected your mistake, no reason for name calling now.

----------


## BHReptiles

> Nit picky would be pointing out you used the word mostly when it shouldn't of been used at all 
> 
> Someone corrected your mistake, no reason for name calling now.


I was not name calling towards that person. I was describing the forum atmosphere as I see it from my perspective.

I also did not make a mistake. I said exactly what I wanted to say, I just failed to remember that there are very technical people on this forum who want things stated explicitly even if some things could be inferred.

----------

_CD CONSTRICTORS_ (09-08-2013),_cory9oh4_ (09-10-2013)

----------


## OhhWatALoser

> I was not name calling towards that person. I was describing the forum atmosphere as I see it from my perspective.
> 
> I also did not make a mistake. I said exactly what I wanted to say, I just failed to remember that there are very technical people on this forum who want things stated explicitly even if some things could be inferred.


Name calling could of been inferred and I would hardly call it technical. To each their own tho.

----------


## rcjgm5

Congratulations to the OP on hatching out some beautiful babies and I wish you the best of luck.

----------


## Kodieh

:Wink:  

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 4

----------

rcjgm5 (09-09-2013)

----------


## MarkieJ

> Nit picky would be pointing out you used the word mostly when it shouldn't *of* been used at all


**have**   :Razz: 

In all seriousness, congrats on your clutch Cross Exotics (Desert or not).  What's Amir's take on all of this?

----------

amserpents (09-10-2013),_Mike41793_ (09-09-2013),OhhWatALoser (09-09-2013),_Viol8r_ (05-03-2015)

----------


## wolfy-hound

Nice clutch!! Did all the eggs hatch( I forgot how many eggs there were)?

----------


## Cross Exotics

All 6 hatched and are healthy   :Very Happy:

----------


## jkobylka

Very pretty hatchlings, but none of them have the Desert gene. Whose input did you seek before posting these mislabeled combos?

Either way, always good to see healthy hatchlings.

----------

_Ace of Snakes_ (09-10-2013),_BHReptiles_ (09-10-2013),_Coleslaw007_ (09-11-2013),_cory9oh4_ (09-10-2013),_eatgoodfood_ (09-12-2013),h00blah (10-05-2013),hogboy (09-15-2013),Kaorte (09-10-2013),rabernet (09-10-2013),rascal_rascal_99 (09-10-2013),_Ridinandreptiles_ (06-25-2014),SteelCity905 (06-25-2014),_tikigator_ (09-10-2013)

----------


## Mr Oni

:Popcorn:

----------


## Ace of Snakes

I had also bought a few snakes from said seller and they proved out to be something they were not, like a specter turning out to be a fire, a female that was a male, etc, etc. I know a few others as well that bought snakes from him that did not turn out what they bought.  Needless to say I will never buy from said seller again!  I figured I would write you since you will probably get a lot of hits on the thread with most people saying they are not deserts.  I do not see desert in any of the animals either.

----------

_irishanaconda_ (09-10-2013),Kaorte (09-10-2013),wienkeg (09-11-2013)

----------


## Rickys_Reptiles

Curious, are any of those female?

I'd be curious to see in a few years in these females are also successful at producing viable clutches.

----------


## Ace of Snakes

Do you know what I did with my so called specter male that was actually a fire or the citrus pastel calico that I bought as a female and ended up being a male? I chalked it up as a lesson learned. I preferred not to even bother with it, it was not the first time this happened with purchases from him, and I felt the best corrective action at the time was to cut loose and simply take my money elsewhere. I had customers lined up waiting to buy Specters and Super stripes from my Specter X Vanilla YB and what I hatched out was Vanilla Creams! Not bad, not complaining, but when you buy a Specter from a big breeder, and you are told its a Specter from that Big breeder and you believe its a Specter, and its not, its is disappointing to say the least. I paid $1000 for a $200 fire. I simply chalk it up to lesson learned!
Im posting not to trash anyone, but to let the OP know that he is not alone. Im sorry, but Im another that does not see Desert in any of those babies and chances are they were sold a Citrus pastel and likely not by mistake. There are many others in the same boat as you that were sold something that it was not, some have come forward, many do not to avoid any backlash for calling out a well known breeder by their supporters that just want to protect their interest, friend, or God.  

Good luck Cross Exotics and I wish you well.  You still have a beautiful clutch in my eyes.

----------

canzoman (09-11-2013),_Coleslaw007_ (09-11-2013),_Mike41793_ (09-10-2013),_satomi325_ (09-10-2013),_SnowShredder_ (09-10-2013)

----------


## meeistom

Sorry to say but having seen lots of desert stuff there is no desert in anything you posted.  Honestly the dam doesn't look like she is a desert either.  I would get a 100% normal male and see what comes out.  I'd be willing to bet the farm no desert comes from this.

----------


## irishanaconda

I would call it a tropical pastel... since there is no desert

----------

_Mike41793_ (06-24-2014)

----------


## wreckroomsnakes

do you know what line of desert you are working with? are these pics pre or post shed?

----------


## tikigator

So.......regardless of whether or not the snake is a desert....why would this not be called an Amir line?  Was the snake not originally bred and purchased by Amir?  

So she is now an Amir line Citrus Cross Exotics line Desert?   :Weirdface:

----------


## wreckroomsnakes

> So.......regardless of whether or not the snake is a desert....why would this not be called an Amir line?  Was the snake not originally bred and purchased by Amir?  
> 
> So she is now an Amir line Citrus Cross Exotics line Desert?


there are two known lines of desert. pk and P.E line. P.E line is much more well known and typically holds it color better as it ages. Pk line tends to brown out

----------


## rabernet

> Very pretty hatchlings, but none of them have the Desert gene. Whose input did you seek before posting these mislabeled combos?
> 
> Either way, always good to see healthy hatchlings.


Presumably, Amir. 

Sent from my Samsung Note II using Tapatalk 2

----------

_Ace of Snakes_ (09-10-2013)

----------


## Ace of Snakes

My citrus pastel calico clutch this season.  Note that these are right out of the egg after cleaning up.  There are no supers.  Only citrus pastel calicos, calicos and citrus pastels.

----------

_Coleslaw007_ (09-11-2013),_Mike41793_ (09-10-2013),_satomi325_ (09-10-2013)

----------


## Kaorte

Great looking clutch but I agree with the others - no deserts in this clutch. 

Kinda confused why you are insisting that they are?

----------

_Kodieh_ (09-10-2013)

----------


## tikigator

> there are two known lines of desert. pk and P.E line. P.E line is much more well known and typically holds it color better as it ages. Pk line tends to brown out


Gotcha (I do not own a desert so I am not familiar with the lines, I would just assume those who produced them originally would have the rights to the name)....but my question still stands, why would it not be called a PK line or PE line?  Regardless if you are the first to produce something, the line/breeding of the animal would not change...?  :Confused:

----------


## grcforce327

> Gotcha (I do not own a desert so I am not familiar with the lines, I would just assume those who produced them originally would have the rights to the name)....but my question still stands, why would it not be called a PK line or PE line?  Regardless if you are the first to produce something, the line/breeding of the animal would not change...?


What happens if two different people import  animals at the same time, not knowing that either has it???

----------


## joebad976

> Gotcha (I do not own a desert so I am not familiar with the lines, I would just assume those who produced them originally would have the rights to the name)....but my question still stands, why would it not be called a PK line or PE line?  Regardless if you are the first to produce something, the line/breeding of the animal would not change...?


I don't think the OP quoted that this is his own line of anything...I am not sure where you are seeing that he did.  :Confused:

----------


## angllady2

I have been following your story very closely.  I do not want any part of the trashing or accusing or name calling.  BUT just this past Sunday I saw a number of Desert Combos at my local show courtesy of a well known breeder I originally met at Tinley Park.   And I have to tell you honestly.  Nothing about any of your snakes, from the dam to the babies looks desert to me.  Could I be wrong?  Of course.  But I have to tell you, after seeing in person what a number of different desert combos looks like, these don't have "the look" of a desert.

I don't know how to describe what that means.  I can only say that until Sunday, I have only seen single gene deserts in person, and combos in photographs.  Having seen combos in person, they do have a definite look to them.  It is impossible to mistake them for anything else.  And these babies....just don't have that look.  

In theory, it could just be because of the dam being a "different" desert.  But the combos I saw came from a minimum of 5 different deserts, so I kind of doubt that is the case.  If you do breed her to a normal male and get single gene deserts, please do let us all know, because I will gladly apologize for doubting.

Gale

----------


## tikigator

> What happens if two different people import  animals at the same time, not knowing that either has it???


You cannot import a known line....an import is an unknown line.  If you prove out an import then you have the right to call it your own line.  At least that is how I have always understood it.  You cannot just purchase a snake from someone's line, breed it once and call it your own line.  Someone else produced it....or imported and proved it.  For example I cannot buy a Joliff Axanthic, breed it and then decide to call it my own line of Axanthics.....

----------


## tikigator

> I don't think the OP quoted that this is his own line of anything...I am not sure where you are seeing that he did.


On the OP's post on BLBC:

"Keeping with my word here's the update. This is from the FIRST and ONLY proven Citrus Pastel Desert female. Proven and named the "Cross Exotics Desert Line"."

I went back and looked at the first post here, I thought it was identical when I read it before....maybe it changed, regardless, that's what the OP is calling it.

----------

_joebad976_ (09-10-2013)

----------


## spitzu

> You cannot import a known line....an import is an unknown line.  If you prove out an import then you have the right to call it your own line.  At least that is how I have always understood it.  You cannot just purchase a snake from someone's line, breed it once and call it your own line.  Someone else produced it....or imported and proved it.  For example I cannot buy a Joliff Axanthic, breed it and then decide to call it my own line of Axanthics.....


I think he was calling the combo the "Oasis", not referring to his own line of Desert.  It was other people talking about this line and that line.

----------

_joebad976_ (09-10-2013)

----------


## Cross Exotics

I'll set the record straight gang.. I initially posted on the blbc forums. Yes, I called it Cross Exotics Line, and that is due to it "being a first" with the Desert female reproducing and not being done prior to this from anyone over the years. I retracted the "Oasis" name and left it at that since it was taken (didn't do my home work on that). It was a way of marking a first of an event, even though the Desert lines have been bred to so many combos before this. There is no way to tell which "line" comes from what unless you have spotless records from day one when they were brought in to the country. It was even mentioned that my girl could have been a "Jungle Desert" type new line that emerged from breeding over the years.  :Surprised:  I've had faith in this project, and I've also stood behind everything I've said while being transparent as possible in hopes to further share this information regarding something that is tagged impossible. After all, being excited is boring unless its shared for others to enjoy as well. After reading other opinions and reflecting back, I apologize for being over zealous and calling something my own line without the further proving of generations. Before I posted these pics I even consulted several very well known breeders. After doing so with the information of what was seen in the clutch I posted them. Hence the excitement and claim of said events. I won't disclose these breeders out of respect, and I assure you things will come full circle one way or the other as far as this Desert event goes. This thread was generated for the sole purpose of keeping my word of sharing the information, and not concealing what a lot have wished to happen for a long time. I thank you all for your opinions, thoughts, questions and respect for each other and myself regarding this matter. Feel free to ask or post and I will remain upfront with you all as I have been. 

Thank You, 
Joe
Cross Exotics

----------


## rascal_rascal_99

Tiki is correct, he has said he is going to be calling his deserts from this female on a Cross Line Desert...even though it came from Amir, so to me this would still be whatever line, PE/PK that Amir had if she is in fact a desert.

Personally, I still think we haven't seen a desert on eggs yet.

----------


## Cross Exotics

> Tiki is correct, he has said he is going to be calling his deserts from this female on a Cross Line Desert...even though it came from Amir, so to me this would still be whatever line, PE/PK that Amir had if she is in fact a desert.
> 
> Personally, I still think we haven't seen a desert on eggs yet.


They are not nor will they be called Cross Line Deserts.  PE is the line she came from.

----------


## rascal_rascal_99

> They are not nor will they be called Cross Line Deserts. PE is the line she came from.


Thank you  :Good Job: 


While I do remain skeptical, I also wish you the best and would love for you to prove me wrong and prove her out as being a desert. Best of luck with your season!  :Smile:

----------

_Cross Exotics_ (09-10-2013)

----------


## wwmjkd

> I'll set the record straight gang.. I initially posted on the blbc forums. Yes, I called it Cross Exotics Line, and that is due to it "being a first" with the Desert female reproducing and not being done prior to this from anyone over the years. I retracted the "Oasis" name and left it at that since it was taken (didn't do my home work on that). It was a way of marking a first of an event, even though the Desert lines have been bred to so many combos before this. There is no way to tell which "line" comes from what unless you have spotless records from day one when they were brought in to the country. It was even mentioned that my girl could have been a "Jungle Desert" type new line that emerged from breeding over the years.  I've had faith in this project, and I've also stood behind everything I've said while being transparent as possible in hopes to further share this information regarding something that is tagged impossible. After all, being excited is boring unless its shared for others to enjoy as well. After reading other opinions and reflecting back, I apologize for being over zealous and calling something my own line without the further proving of generations. Before I posted these pics I even consulted several very well known breeders. After doing so with the information of what was seen in the clutch I posted them. Hence the excitement and claim of said events. I won't disclose these breeders out of respect, and I assure you things will come full circle one way or the other as far as this Desert event goes. This thread was generated for the sole purpose of keeping my word of sharing the information, and not concealing what a lot have wished to happen for a long time. I thank you all for your opinions, thoughts, questions and respect for each other and myself regarding this matter. Feel free to ask or post and I will remain upfront with you all as I have been. 
> 
> Thank You, 
> Joe
> Cross Exotics


Can I ask what makes you so convinced that your dam is a desert and you hatched out a clutch of desert combos? I've been made aware my tone doesn't always come across online, so let me say first that I have no desire to antagonize anyone or doubt your sincerity. I'm really just trying to sate curiosity, and I haven't noticed you respond to anyone who thinks your snake is 'just' a fantastic looking citrus pastel. Is it possible Amir made a mistake in selling your dam as a desert? Have you discussed that possibility with him? Have you compared your clutch to any Pro Exotics deserts in person? 

You keep mentioning the big breeders you consulted with, but there have been plenty of extremely experienced people who have disagreed with you here and in your previous thread. I know you have faith in your project, which is commendable. But despite their best efforts, not all martyrs see divinity. And now there's a possibility that it is a new morph called jungle desert that came about from 'breeding over the years'? Despite the fact you purchased it as a PE-line desert? 

I'm not picking sides or attacking your credibility, but it is irresponsible to make a claim like this without having the evidence, argument, or at least theory to back it up. If you warn people against breeding their female deserts, but you bred an animal believing it to run the same risk anyway, only to find out you were mistaken from the start...when it comes to a project like this, with the potential to crack open the coffin on the desert gene, I just think a little more information would go a long way.

----------


## I-KandyReptiles

I think OP and a few others just refuse to believe that Amir would wrongly identify a snake.

----------

_Ace of Snakes_ (09-11-2013),_Coleslaw007_ (09-11-2013),Jam Reptiles (09-11-2013),Kaorte (09-11-2013),_Mike41793_ (09-11-2013)

----------


## amir

> I think OP and a few others just refuse to believe that Amir would wrongly identify a snake.


Mistakes can always be made, it's how you react to them that defines your character.
All interested parties can reach me directly to discuss the matter 786-459-2741

----------

_Emilio_ (09-11-2013),h00blah (10-05-2013),_Mike41793_ (09-11-2013),PitOnTheProwl (09-11-2013)

----------


## Mike41793

> Mistakes can always be made, it's how you react to them that defines your character.
> All interested parties can reach me directly to discuss the matter 786-459-2741


Do you think you made one? 

I'm not trying to call you out, i'd really just like to hear your opinion on all of it. What makes you think the dam or those babies have desert in them?

----------


## SquamishSerpents

I think he meant if you want to know, phone him, lol

----------

_Emilio_ (09-11-2013)

----------


## Mike41793

> I think he meant if you want to know, phone him, lol


I'm sure EVERYONE here wants to know though, so why couldn't he just share? Cross Exotics is being transparent, he should too. I feel calling him would come across as being overly aggressive or something lol

----------

_tikigator_ (09-11-2013),_Viol8r_ (05-03-2015)

----------


## grcforce327

> You cannot import a known line....an import is an unknown line.  If you prove out an import then you have the right to call it your own line.  At least that is how I have always understood it.  You cannot just purchase a snake from someone's line, breed it once and call it your own line.  Someone else produced it....or imported and proved it.  For example I cannot buy a Joliff Axanthic, breed it and then decide to call it my own line of Axanthics.....


WOW! When it's first imported from the wild in Africa,it is an unknown line!!! Who is calling either of the two imported lines another name???

----------


## grcforce327

Now that I think about it, didn't Sam's(I think it's Sam) line get changed to Pro Exotics when they bought his animals ???

----------


## rabernet

> Now that I think about it, didn't Sam's(I think it's Sam) line get changed to Pro Exotics when they bought his animals ???


Stan

Sent from my Samsung Note II using Tapatalk 2

----------


## rabernet

> Mistakes can always be made, it's how you react to them that defines your character.
> All interested parties can reach me directly to discuss the matter 786-459-2741


So is the dam a Desert citrus pastel, or was it a mistake? 

Sent from my Samsung Note II using Tapatalk 2

----------


## WarriorPrincess90

Absolutely stunning babies!!  :Good Job:

----------


## I-KandyReptiles

> So is the dam a Desert citrus pastel, or was it a mistake? 
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Note II using Tapatalk 2


I think he wants you to call him to find out.

----------


## rabernet

> I think he wants you to call him to find out.


I understood that, but I'd rather he answer that question here, since we've had months of speculation and even other respected breeders like Justin Kobylka who doesn't believe the babies are desert and Sean Bradley who agreed the dam didn't look desert. 

The perceived "secrecy" and unwillingness to respond in public is concerning. I'd rather it come straight from "the horse's mouth" publicly. It is after all how one handles such situations that is important as he said. I believe it's best to be answered here whether he still stands behind the dam being a desert or not. 

Sent from my Samsung Note II using Tapatalk 2

----------

_Ace of Snakes_ (09-11-2013),_BHReptiles_ (09-11-2013),BrianB801 (09-11-2013),_Coleslaw007_ (09-11-2013),Jam Reptiles (09-11-2013),_Kodieh_ (09-11-2013),LawrenceT (09-11-2013),_MarkieJ_ (09-11-2013),_Mike41793_ (09-11-2013),PitOnTheProwl (09-11-2013),_Ridinandreptiles_ (06-25-2014),_satomi325_ (09-11-2013)

----------


## Cross Exotics

Amir and I have spoken, and he will honor our agreement regarding the Citrus Pastel Desert female as he has said since day one without wavering if indeed she does not prove out. Not even a normal was present in the clutch this season so she will be bred to a normal male to prove her out without a doubt. The clutch is beautiful and I'm happy with the results thus far. Again, I thank you all for your input regarding this matter. 

For reading pleasure, good stuff : http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...t-jungle-russo

http://www.reptileradio.net/ball-pyt...gle-stuff.html

----------


## Mike41793

Can i ask why you've been calling it a citrus pastel desert all along if from day one amir let it be known that she may not prove out? If the jury has been out all this time why were you speaking so definitively about her and labeling the babies as deserts? Imo you don't even have to breed her to a normal to prove her out. Shes just a citrus pastel. I know that and called it from the beginning, most of the people on the forum probably know that, amir probably knows that, and even now you probably know that. But we'll just keep playing along... 

I wonder how many idiots read your other thread and this one and decided to breed their female deserts, inviting death upon them. Have you thought about that at all?

----------

*bcr229* (10-01-2013),_eatgoodfood_ (09-12-2013),hogboy (09-15-2013),Jam Reptiles (09-11-2013),_Kodieh_ (09-11-2013),led-zep (06-24-2014),_Ridinandreptiles_ (06-25-2014),_satomi325_ (10-02-2013)

----------


## Kodieh

Still haven't seen an admission of it not being a desert. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 4

----------


## grcforce327

> Stan
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Note II using Tapatalk 2


I hit me on the way home! lol  Sorry Stan..... I have a female from his line.

----------


## joebad976

What was the agreement with Amir? Did you already know that it was possibly not a desert when you purchased it?

I don't see the Jungle Desert scenario working in your favor. The Jungle is a separate trait/gene that has been popping up through the years not a new line of desert. At least this is my understanding.\ regarding the "jungle".

----------


## Montoya

You are correct, It originated from a desert pairing to a female at Pro Exotics.  While it's not very common they are out there and have a very distinct look.

----------

_joebad976_ (09-11-2013)

----------


## Ace of Snakes

Any new news?

----------


## Cross Exotics

Here's a Lil update. 6-22-14 she laid 5 viable eggs. Count down begins. 











Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

----------

_Wapadi_ (06-24-2014)

----------


## CD CONSTRICTORS

Paired with??

----------


## Cross Exotics

> Paired with??


Pied, Het Pied and Enchi only. Most locks were from the Het Pied. Btw, how ya doing Corey? ;-) 

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

----------


## Mike41793

Like I said day one wayyyy back in the thread that got locked, I still think amir made a mistake. But what do I know?

Sent from my SCH-I435 using Tapatalk

----------

_satomi325_ (06-24-2014)

----------


## BHReptiles

I want to see updated pictures of the last clutch. They hatched then no more updates....

----------

_Marrissa_ (06-24-2014),_Mike41793_ (06-25-2014),_MJT_23_ (06-24-2014)

----------


## Kasey@MKMorphs

The babies from last year didn't look like they contained the desert gene to me. However, in my opinion the dam does look desert. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

----------

_Cross Exotics_ (06-26-2014)

----------


## sho220

> Pied, Het Pied and Enchi only. Most locks were from the Het Pied. Btw, how ya doing Corey? ;-) 
> 
> Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


Should have just stuck with a normal male like you said you were...

----------

_Ridinandreptiles_ (06-25-2014)

----------


## led-zep

> Should have just stuck with a normal male like you said you were...


+1 yep, agreed. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

----------


## angllady2

Does anyone have updated photos of the babies?  That more than anything else would go a LONG way towards answering the questions still surrounding this whole thing. While the female is magnificent, I still have my doubts.  

Call me pragmatic, argumentative, skeptical, whatever you choose, I still have my doubts.

Gale

----------


## Cross Exotics

> Should have just stuck with a normal male like you said you were...


With the Pied and Het Pied, it serves as a normal, but a bonus with the recessive gene, and I think we all know what a Tiger looks like. I'll post some updated pics later on.

----------

*bcr229* (06-26-2014),dswinton123 (06-26-2014)

----------


## sho220

> Does anyone have updated photos of the babies?  That more than anything else would go a LONG way towards answering the questions still surrounding this whole thing. While the female is magnificent, I still have my doubts.  
> 
> Call me pragmatic, argumentative, skeptical, whatever you choose, I still have my doubts.
> 
> Gale


Looks like there's some updated stuff posted here http://crossexotics.com/?page_id=54

Some good looking snakes!

----------

_angllady2_ (06-26-2014),*bcr229* (06-26-2014)

----------


## oskyle1567

Would be nice to get some insight from the breeder.

----------


## Cross Exotics

> Would be nice to get some insight from the breeder.


What would you like to know? :-)

----------


## Cross Exotics

Here's a group shot. Other is in shed. All are approximately 575g ±

----------


## Cross Exotics

Couple single shots.

----------


## SteelCity905

Some great lookin animals no matter what is going on


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

----------


## ElliotNess

I agree at this point, in order to maintain the integrity of the situation, a 100% normal male should have been used in order to determine with certainty what the dam truly is.

----------


## sho220

> Here's a group shot. Other is in shed. All are approximately 575g ±


Is your website down? I was trying to check out those other pics you had posted there to see how they're all progressing along but I keep getting a DNS error, whatever that is...

Interesting to see how they've grown. Whatever is going on, it's sure keeping the colors crisp and bright..

----------

_Cross Exotics_ (06-26-2014)

----------


## Cross Exotics

The website is down at the moment in between moving servers due to security and trying to make a more user friendly interface. As soon as that's backup I'll pop the link up.

----------


## sho220

> The website is down at the moment in between moving servers due to security and trying to make a more user friendly interface. As soon as that's backup I'll pop the link up.


Cool! Thanks. Good luck with the new clutch. Looking forward to seeing what crawls out... :Smile:

----------


## angllady2

I readily admit, those babies are incredible.  

Desert?  I'm still not ready to commit one way or the other.

I eagerly look forward to seeing the new clutch.  Perhaps one or more of them will help solve this riddle. I do appreciate that you used no pastel this time.  That should help bring out or effectively prove a lack of desert.

Gale

----------


## h00blah

This is a pastel desert Mojave. Mystic looks almost identical to Mojave, and they look completely different.

http://www.worldofballpythons.com/mo...esert-pastave/

I don't want to continue the beating of the dead horse, but just throwing out a photo reference  :Good Job: . I don't blame you for thinking there's something extra in there, because that Pastel Mystic is SMOKIN. I've seen a few that look as nice as yours, but it's very rare. I look forward to seeing some good looking het pieds from your clutch  :Good Job: .

Edit: Just found a desert pastel mystic as well  :Good Job: . As you can see, completely different looking.

http://www.worldofballpythons.com/mo...mystic-pastel/

----------


## kc261

I'm tagging this thread mostly so I won't miss updates... but I will say you have some really purty snakes, whatever genes they carry.

Has anyone considered the possibility that these snakes carry some other gene, not desert, but not "just pastel" either?

I think the babies this year will tell us a lot.  Although using a normal would have erased some questions, like "is het pied showing through and affecting it?", I still think the pairings that were done will be pretty revealing.

----------


## Cross Exotics

> I'm tagging this thread mostly so I won't miss updates... but I will say you have some really purty snakes, whatever genes they carry.
> 
> Has anyone considered the possibility that these snakes carry some other gene, not desert, but not "just pastel" either?
> 
> I think the babies this year will tell us a lot.  Although using a normal would have erased some questions, like "is het pied showing through and affecting it?", I still think the pairings that were done will be pretty revealing.


kc, another gene other than Desert has been brought up over the year as a strong possibility. However, with her being sold as a Desert and posted in the same manner, the backlash has been too much to mention that and go in that direction. To produce offspring yielding indisputable results has been the goal. Time will tell for sure and I don't foresee the het altering the appearance of the babies with the results that last year's clutch is currently displaying. Mom is already back on feed so things look good as a whole.

----------


## SnakeGirl3

> Pied, Het Pied and *Enchi* only. Most locks were from the Het Pied. Btw, how ya doing Corey? ;-) 
> 
> Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk





> With the Pied and Het Pied, it serves as a normal, but a bonus with the recessive gene, and I think we all know what a Tiger looks like. I'll post some updated pics later on.


Really, really wish you hadn't thrown enchi in there as a possibility.  The pied and het pied really shouldn't affect the appearance of the babies, but enchi may or may not (especially when mixed into other genes) pop up to further confuse the situation.  A nice citrus pastel enchi (and you have a really nice citrus pastel--I'm not entirely convinced either on the desert, but then I have seen only one single-gene desert in person, so I'm definitely no expert on them) could be confused with a desert combo of some sort.  I really hope I'm wrong, because it would be nice to find out that there's at least one female desert that can reproduce, and that would lead to hope that her female desert offspring might too.  I just hope that enchi doesn't pop up in this clutch.  Anxiously awaiting the hatching.  Best of luck!

----------

_Cross Exotics_ (07-02-2014)

----------


## Cross Exotics

> I really hope I'm wrong, because it would be nice to find out that there's at least one female desert that can reproduce, and that would lead to hope that her female desert offspring might too.  I just hope that enchi doesn't pop up in this clutch.  Anxiously awaiting the hatching.  Best of luck!


Makes two of us. I'm being positive about everything and I'm sure the "Tiger" would be easily spotted if produced over a Citrus Pastel.   :Smile:  I highly doubt the Enchi got the job done since the Het Pied locked up well over 12 times easy and the Enchi only locked once. Fingers crossed on the results as well.

----------


## timely.grace

Definitely subbing to this thread

----------


## yumao

:Smile:  :Smile:  :Smile:  :Smile:  :Smile:

----------


## 989josh

> As promised, I'm keeping my word and providing you with an update on the clutch from my Citrus Pastel Desert. This is from the FIRST and ONLY proven Citrus Pastel Desert female. ** Disclaimer - Don't breed your Desert females and please be respectful with answers towards each other. ** Thank You. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank You, 
> 
> Joe
> 
> Cross Exotics


I just wanted to bring this first part back up incase anyone missed it



Sent from my iPhone

----------


## Cross Exotics

Here are some videos I recently posted. The first one is from the 2013 season and the second 2014 season. 

2013 Citrus Pastel Desert breeding season. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tgo9W_UR1Q


2014 Citrus Pastel Desert breeding season. 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hF5iA3GKuKw

----------


## lightpied

Any updates ?? Who sired the 2014 clutch!?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

----------


## ENA Reptiles

[QUOTE=lightpied;2345772]Any updates ?? Who sired the 2014 clutch!?

I too am wondering about this?

----------


## CD CONSTRICTORS

Guys.... I'm pretty sure Joe does not frequent this forum much anymore. You would probably best be served contacting him though Facebook, or his website.

Last visited the site in January from his profile  :Wink:

----------


## Dexotic Reptile

congratulate


 i have Desert pastel F  Breeding next year

----------


## bondo

> congratulate
> 
> 
>  i have Desert pastel F  Breeding next year


Since this was not a desert and no desert has ever laid viable eggs. I would strongly advise against that. Unless you are willing to have a vet cut her open from complications.

----------

