# Ball Pythons > BP Morphs & Genetics > Is This A Morph? / What Morph Is This? >  Pastel Piebald x Bumblebee het Piebald clutch id help

## Helix

Hi guys
I had a nice clutch this season and I would need a little help from you to confirm what your eyes can see here  :Smile: 



In the middle there is Super pastel and left from her is a Pastel. Both of them look kinda "different" to me.. Dont know if its just the influence of the piebald gene or there could be something else... What do you guys/girls think?

After shedding





Also, I got a completely white snake, guess its White wedding (totaly white spied). Is there a chance I could determine if it is maybe carrying pastel gene also (other than breeding)? Maybe by the eyes ?

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_AlexisFitzy_ (08-22-2015),MapleSyrup (10-29-2015),_nightwolfsnow_ (08-23-2015)

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## Kibbleswhites

Sweet!  That clutch is great.  Lets see the parents!  The pastel gene can sometimes be really busy so if the pastel parent is not it still could be the influence of the pastel gene in the bee parent.  Any ringers on that super pastel?  She is...wow.  I would say breeding would be the only way to tell if there is pastel in the all white baby.

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## Helix

Thank you for the comment.
Here is the picture of the father. 



Mother is a classic piebald, and while she is beutiful i dont think theres anything extra going on.

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## Slowcountry Balls

I'm cofused. The title of your post is "Pastel Piebald x Bumblebee Piebald clutch I'd help". If that was your pairing, everything should be at least Piebald. Based on your pictures, at least 1 parent must only be het Piebald. To get a Super Pastel, both parents must have the Pastel, so the mother can't be just a classic Piebald.  A little clarification on your pairing would really help.

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_Alicia_ (08-09-2014),Helix (08-09-2014),JPR (08-09-2014),Nussman (08-09-2014),OhhWatALoser (08-09-2014)

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## Helix

Thank you for pointing this out, actually I made 2 mistakes.
The pairing was Pastel Piebald x Bumblebee het Piebald. First I somehow forgot to add het in the thread name, and then when I added the picture of the male I said the female is piebald. 
My apologies, the paring in question was Pastel Piebald x Bumblebee het Piebald.

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## SteveySingle

Let's see the het pied bee! Awesome babies

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## JLC

Edited thread title per member's request.  :Smile:

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## tacticalveterinarian

Great clutch results! Those babies are really nice!

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## Helix

Here are the pictures from this years breeding - it was the same - Pastel Piebald x Bumblebee het Piebald. 
And the mystery continues..we got another Super Pastel and Killerbee that are a bit "weird" looking.
Any opinions?

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_nightwolfsnow_ (08-23-2015)

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## Solarsoldier001

Definitely something strange is going on. Very strange. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## aLittleLessButter

That low white pied with the full dorsal stripe is absolutely incredible!! Congrats!

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## darkranger69

the killer bee seems cleary to have the het. pied influence but the super pastel has more than that. too dark to just be a super pastel. is there any possibilities to have  HRA in the mix?

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## Helix

Thank you all for the comments.
Het red axanthic? Dont know.. I am looking for any explanation for this. Whatever goes on, I think its best seen at this years Super paste het Pied and last years Pastel het Pied. And whatever is going on, the male of the clutches is the "guilty" one.

Here is a picture from last years Super Pastel with some weight on her



Here are pictures from this and last years other clutches. Pastel Piebald x Piebald

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## darkranger69

:Surprised: ... those last picture make me think of something different. where you got the parents from??

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## Helix

At one point I event started to question if he (sire) is a Pastel Piebald or maybe something different...but since there are super pastels and Pastel Piebalds, I guess he is Pastel Piebald.
Also, the low white Piebald with dorsal stripe I got this year from Pastel Piebald x Bumblebee het pairing, I am wondering if he is just a good looking Pastel Piebald (with something else maybe going on) or maybe Super Pastel Piebald

Before shed



After the shed

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## darkranger69

could be a trick like morph as well, your killer and superpastel should not have orange colors and you pastel is really busy. maybe blitz, something like that

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## Helix

> ... those last picture make me think of something different. where you got the parents from??


At first I was thinking if there could be a bit yellowbelly in there causing the flames on the sides of the super pastel hets. But the "destruction" of dorsal pattern is obvious...Last year I thought it is just a coincidence, and I got a curious looking baby ball python that just looks a bit different because of the influence of the piebald gene. 
But same happened this year, and I am more and more sure that there is also something more going on...

I got them all from the same breeder here in europe. Bumblebee het and Piebald females, while good looking, they have nothing out of the ordinary on them.. And the male produces this kind of babies from either pairing. I bought the male as a Pastel Piebald, and while being a bit darker, that is what he should be.
I managed to find picture of another of sires hatchling. 

I asked the breeder from wich I got the parents from what he thinks this one is - he said he thinks its a really dark Pastel Piebald

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## darkranger69

if your snake come from winner , i can tell you what you have.

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## Helix

> if your snake come from winner , i can tell you what you have.


Winner? no, its from an austrian breeder that (as I heard atleast) has got some of the animals from roussies reptiles.

But any opinion is welcome, so shoot  :Smile:

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## darkranger69

i thought about Hj winner because his hurricane could explain the nice mess you got.

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## darkranger69

HJ winner is german so quite close from your bredeer... that could have got his snake from Winner.

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## ARBallMorphs

I just came across this thread but I have to agree with Darkranger, 

it is possible he got an animal from Winner somewhere in the past and that got mixed in to his pied projects

Can I ask where in Europe you live?

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_darkranger69_ (08-25-2015)

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## darkranger69

thank you ARBallmorphs, i feel less paranoid.

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_ARBallMorphs_ (08-25-2015)

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## ARBallMorphs

> thank you ARBallmorphs, i feel less paranoid.


haha,

Yeah just saying it is possible as for a while HJ Winner didn't know himself what was really going on with the Hurricane, or well that is what I understood when I was talking to him at a show though my German isn't that good.

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## Helix

> I just came across this thread but I have to agree with Darkranger, 
> 
> it is possible he got an animal from Winner somewhere in the past and that got mixed in to his pied projects
> 
> Can I ask where in Europe you live?


Hi personally I am from Croatia, but the breeder where I got the mother and father of the clutch is from Austria. 
I tried contacting the breeder but till now I didnt get any response.

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## Tsanford

> Hi personally I am from Croatia, but the breeder where I got the mother and father of the clutch is from Austria. 
> I tried contacting the breeder but till now I didnt get any response.


You said you were able to get a hold of the breeder. Did he shed any light on what mystery genes could be going on?

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## rlditmars

My guess is there is something in the YB complex going on. Perhaps Spark, or Gravel. Spark would account for the stripe and head pattern and the YB looking hatchling.

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## Helix

I contacted him last year for the last years clutch. The male should be Pastel Piebald, thats it.
This year when I got same weird looking animals, it really got me thinking that it couldnt be just a Pastel...

I asked the breeder what he thinks about striped Pastel Piebald, havent gotten a reply yet.
What do you guys think about the striped Pastel Piebald? First I thought it is Super Pastel Piebald because he had really washed out sides and stripe on his back...
And now I think it might be Pastel + "something" Piebald? 


@rlditmars

Yeah I was scratching my head looking at "normals" I produced from this male...but I think it isnt yellowbelly...still might be something from yellowbelly complex...

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## darkranger69

Could be a specter gene as well, i don t see spark or gravel.  Specter  produce stripe babies even not paired with YB group genes. my black pastel specter has a 80% stripe. The normal for me is just normal.

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