# Other Pythons > Giant Pythons >  Perhistoric Pets

## Highline Reptiles South

I have to admit - I don't know much about keeping giant pythons...but looking at this video today i was really surprised to see albino titanium at 50 seconds. Its literally crammed into a tub. Is this how folks keep retics?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...v=h9oylO9KPz4#!

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## John1982

> I have to admit - I don't know much about keeping giant pythons...but looking at this video today i was really surprised to see albino titanium at 50 seconds. Its literally crammed into a tub. Is this how folks keep retics?
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...v=h9oylO9KPz4#!


I'm hoping that snake was just there while they were cleaning it's permanent enclosure.. If not that's pretty sad.

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## Daybreaker

I wouldn't be surprised if that it's permanent cage until it gets larger just because of space issues and housing/breeding so many snakes in the facility.

I literally just got my first baby giant today (mainland ST) and I can say when she's full grown she won't be in a tub: I just can't fathom one that would be large enough for ANY adult dwarf/mainland retic. Mainland girls need at LEAST 6-8' enclosures, and the male in the vid should be in at LEAST a 4' viv IMO. But I'm not a breeder of course, just my .02

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## Andybill

havent heard many good things about those guys...

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## snakesRkewl

looks kind of like a 500 gram ball python in a 6qt tub...

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_Slim_ (06-13-2012)

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## alittleFREE

That's really sad if that's it's regular tub, honestly. There's no way it can easily move around at all, all squished in there like that... that can't be healthy.

I know_ snakes like small dark places_ etc etc, but that would be like being forced to live in your bathtub....

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## John1982

> I wouldn't be surprised if that it's permanent cage until it gets larger just because of space issues and housing/breeding so many snakes in the facility.


If that is the case seems like pretty poor planning to me.

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## Mike41793

I will never buy an animal from prehistoric pets after watching that.  If you dont have the room then dont get the animals.  Theyre clearly only it for the money.  I feel really bad for that snake. :Sad: 

I highly doubt thats just a temporary cage due to the substrate and water dish.  They must sit there 24/7 waiting for that snake to crap or piss, bc its not even like the snake could move to the other side of the tub when it goes to the bathroom in it.  To think i feel bad when i dont check on my snakes every other day...  

Prehistoric Pets:  You suck.  Care to share why you decided to disable comments for that video?

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## heathers*bps

Poor thing  :Sad:

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## Andybill

I believe i have heard the nickname butcher from baghdad in reference to the man in the vid. I could be mistaken... I have seen some vids of him cutting his eggs and he hacks nearly every vain in the eggs. then he pulls the snakes pretty much all the way out to see what he got. After watching that I decided to stay far away...

It would seem he is in it entirely for the money....

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## rebelrachel13

Yeah, I never hear good things about them. Can't stand to watch their youtube videos either, very obnoxious. This one is particularly frustrating to me for some reason: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFhDhVaGbsY  :Mad:

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## Mike41793

> I believe i have heard the nickname butcher from baghdad in reference to the man in the vid. I could be mistaken... I have seen some vids of him cutting his eggs and he hacks nearly every vain in the eggs. then he pulls the snakes pretty much all the way out to see what he got. After watching that I decided to stay far away...
> 
> It would seem he is in it entirely for the money....


I cant imagine how he got that nickname  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xWVTdKzGCE

I hate this guy.

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## 1nstinct

Andrew is right he is a butch to his bp eggs. For that reason I would never get anything from even frozen rats :Mad: . IMHO they breed a lot if animals and seems like they barely have enought room to take care of the ones they already have.
Tom

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## Andybill

> I cant imagine how he got that nickname 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xWVTdKzGCE
> 
> I hate this guy.


yeah and the blood is totally normal! oh my god.... SMH.

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## WarriorPrincess90

> Yeah, I never hear good things about them. Can't stand to watch their youtube videos either, very obnoxious. This one is particularly frustrating to me for some reason: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFhDhVaGbsY


I've seen that before. That snake looks miserable and like it needed to go to the bathroom. Even before it actually did go on the floor. They never should have taken it out, especially as roughly as they did.  :Mad:  :Rage:  :Mad:

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## WarriorPrincess90

> I cant imagine how he got that nickname 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xWVTdKzGCE
> 
> I hate this guy.


He just yanked those babies out of their eggs! And he's slashing them open!?!? That's DISGUSTING. Those poor poor babies!!!

(I'm so angry now. What a horrible person.  :Rage:  )

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## Mike41793

In case anyone cares... :Wink: 

Prehistoric Pets 714-964-3525
info@prehistoricpets.com
18822 Brookhurst Street
Fountain Valley, CA 982708

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## Highline Reptiles South

ugh can't believe i spelled the name wrong in the title.  Housing a snake in a tub so small you can't see floor so i has to sit in its own dookie........just plain wrong. I think it's clear why the comments are disabled.

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## Mike41793

> ugh can't believe i spelled the name wrong in the title.  Housing a snake in a tub so small you can't see floor so i has to sit in its own dookie........just plain wrong. I think it's clear why the comments are disabled.


Yea bc they suck ass and dont know how to care for their animals.  (Just clarifying for anyone who may have missed it.) :Smile:

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## Daybreaker

After watching the OP's vid I just randomly clicked on this one when I looked through their other vids and I had to stop after a 1:40 after he pulled the poor thing's tail right out of the egg  :Sad:  I don't believe this is normal practice right? 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQdv...ure=plpp_video

Edit: similar to Mike's vid he posted.

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## Andybill

Any good breeder would definitely not encourage hacking the veins or pulling the snake out of the egg to see what it is. So no I dont believe it is normal practice for most breeders, which it clearly is not the case for these folks at prehistoric pets.

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## Mike41793

> After watching the OP's vid I just randomly clicked on this one when I looked through their other vids and I had to stop after a 1:40 after he pulled the poor thing's tail right out of the egg  I don't believe this is normal practice right? 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQdv...ure=plpp_video
> 
> Edit: similar to Mike's vid he posted.


youre correct, its not normal at all.  For anyone reading this thread, this is how the REAL PRO's do it.  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLHsQ7Y-Y0I

Whats that you say at 1:05 Mike?  "Be careful not to cut the blood vessels."??? Huh i thought all the blood was normal...

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_Andybill_ (06-13-2012)

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## Daybreaker

> youre correct, its not normal at all.  For anyone reading this thread, this is how the REAL PRO's do it.  
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLHsQ7Y-Y0I


Awesome vid, so gentle. I sure didn't think hacking eggs was normal, but I'm not shamed to say I have no knowledge of breeding or caring for eggs: I'm still a long ways away from attempting to breed experience-wise.

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## Mike41793

> Awesome vid, so gentle. I sure didn't think hacking eggs was normal, but I'm not shamed to say I have no knowledge of breeding or caring for eggs: I'm still a long ways away from attempting to breed experience-wise.


I dont have any experience either.  But if they were your eggs do be cut would you pick Mike the Brain Surgeon or the Butcher lol...?

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## Andybill

> I dont have any experience either.  But if they were your eggs do be cut would you pick Mike the Brain Surgeon or the *Butcher* lol...?


LOL you can thank Kevin for the nickname!

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_Mike41793_ (06-14-2012)

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## dart

Jay is pretty famous for being in this for the money. He's a hack with deep pockets.

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_Mike41793_ (06-14-2012)

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## Charlie Smith

It's funny to me that no one really knows what those snakes stories were in being shown in the videos posted yet everyone was quick to jump on the hate bandwagon.  Someone started the hate and others jumped in.  Sad really that one can't keep an open mind about things that typed in a forum.  When Jay opened at random any of those plastics were they clean?  I believe so....  Could have it been in a temporary cage, again possible so.

I have been to Prehistoric Pets many times as it is the largest place to see many snakes and I've had a personal tour of behind the scenes that lasted over 2 hours with Tim and it is amazing what they have there in quality and quantity.  They do know what they are doing in care even though most of us are hobbyists and think they need more space and something different.  The 1000's of cages behind the scenes were very clean.  They have breed 10's of 1000's of all kinds of reptiles more than most and have a huge investment in rooms where they could stand to lose $500k+ in just one of their rooms.  Jay is the kind of person that's more of a doer and not a thinker and yes he does sensationalize things a bit but I know the snakes are cared for.

Ever seen a large breeder's setup and not see rubbermaids for cages?  Even Mike's were the same.  He cut his eggs 'early' and needed to be especially careful but didn't he say that even he gets curious and would cut them when he is really really dying to know and would risk cutting into the eggs that are on the bottom just to see what's inside.  And Mike did cut some blood vessels at the 3:21 mark "just to see what's inside".  "It's not real dangerous to do that, if you do that it's not going to be the end of the world"  Thanks Mike for showing us what a real breeder does.... same as Prehistoric Pets.  And at time 5:00 the snakes are basically going to mutilate that egg and you don't have to nearly as careful.  Um, that's when Jay at Prehistoric Pets cut his.

These guys know what the risks are after all these years and know pretty well what will happen good or bad when they do things.  Why all the whining?  Enjoy what you have.

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_Navy_ (07-02-2012)

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## liv

The issue that started this all is that he has an animal in an enclosure way too small for it. It literally cannot move its body. The tub is clean, yes, but that doesn't make it any bigger. Besides, I don't think I trust their clean tubs for one second. If they have the thousands of animals that you say, how long do his snakes have to sit in their own waste (because the tub is too small to move to the other side) before he or his crew come to clean it up? The video depicting him butchering those eggs showed that this man is seriously lacking some common sense and respect for the animals in his care. I don't care how "professional" someones facility looks, how much money it cost them or how many animals they own; poor husbandry is poor husbandry.

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StormSerpent (07-02-2012)

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## MrLang

This guy is bold for posting videos of him being loud and abnoxious and treating live animals like used cars and the videos make me quite sad.

I'm willing to bet there are a lot of people who follow in similar types of practices. It seems overall pretty simple to get snakes to make babies, but things like basic biological knowledge or a having a compassionate nature are not a prerequisite. I see snake videos all over YouTube of people handling snakes improperly or housing them in poor conditions. 

I do agree that the tub in the first video is way too small and almost definitely isn't a 'cleaning tub.' The dude has thousands of snakes... wouldn't he just walk through with clean tubs and swap the snakes into them? What kind of cleaning system would require a holding tub when you're talking about dealing with thousands of poops?

IMO someone could direct an agency to examine that video and potentially prompt an inspection on their facilities. 

Then, when they go to court Kevin McCurley can be the state expert!  :Smile:

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## pookie!

> poor husbandry is poor husbandry.


I mean I am not the most "lovey" and "caring" person when it comes to producing animals for a purpose (money, food, sport, etc) but Jesus have some damn respect for the animals! 

I felt bad for the snake they drug out like it was a toy or something, what was the point in yanking it around like that? Just to make a video?  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

Thats just bad husbandry, and the eggs! WTF its like he was cutting a watermelon open or something.. and again, I have no problem treating an animal like, well an animal, but man they are friggin babies IN THEIR EGGS STILL and shouldnt be handled and cut out like that IMO. 

You get what you put into them, so what if your making this or that, eventually your crappy care of them will come back and bite you. 

Have some respect for them and what they are doing for you, you dont have to treat them like "babies" or "kids" but common decency for an animal that is producing something for you or doing something for you is a must IMO.

Very few people nowadays show their production animals respect and care they deserve and its kind of sad, another unfortunate similarity in the bulldog world and the snake world I guess.

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## Navy

> It's funny to me that no one really knows what those snakes stories were in being shown in the videos posted yet everyone was quick to jump on the hate bandwagon.  Someone started the hate and others jumped in.  Sad really that one can't keep an open mind about things that typed in a forum.  When Jay opened at random any of those plastics were they clean?  I believe so....  Could have it been in a temporary cage, again possible so.
> 
> I have been to Prehistoric Pets many times as it is the largest place to see many snakes and I've had a personal tour of behind the scenes that lasted over 2 hours with Tim and it is amazing what they have there in quality and quantity.  They do know what they are doing in care even though most of us are hobbyists and think they need more space and something different.  The 1000's of cages behind the scenes were very clean.  They have breed 10's of 1000's of all kinds of reptiles more than most and have a huge investment in rooms where they could stand to lose $500k+ in just one of their rooms.  Jay is the kind of person that's more of a doer and not a thinker and yes he does sensationalize things a bit but I know the snakes are cared for.
> 
> Ever seen a large breeder's setup and not see rubbermaids for cages?  Even Mike's were the same.  He cut his eggs 'early' and needed to be especially careful but didn't he say that even he gets curious and would cut them when he is really really dying to know and would risk cutting into the eggs that are on the bottom just to see what's inside.  And Mike did cut some blood vessels at the 3:21 mark "just to see what's inside".  "It's not real dangerous to do that, if you do that it's not going to be the end of the world"  Thanks Mike for showing us what a real breeder does.... same as Prehistoric Pets.  And at time 5:00 the snakes are basically going to mutilate that egg and you don't have to nearly as careful.  Um, that's when Jay at Prehistoric Pets cut his.
> 
> These guys know what the risks are after all these years and know pretty well what will happen good or bad when they do things.  Why all the whining?  Enjoy what you have.


I've seen the way Jay houses his snakes and I can assure you guys that the snake was in there for probably no more than a few hours, if that.

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## The-Jame

Really sad to see animals like that, I can understand if maybe your trying to breed two BP's or something of a similar size but that retic is WAY too big for that tub, I'm not an expert and they could have reasons for why it was in there at that point but if that is its regular care then I'd never consider buying/selling/trading or anything with them.

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## Charlie Smith

Since noone actually really knows the truth about that tube and the retic in that tube it all a guess.  Believe me, they have the space to house that snake in a bigger cage and Tim may have planted it there earlier to have one to show of a larger size.  Who knows, nobody.

The good thing this good conversation has brought out is many people here wouldn't treat their pets this way or see something that may seem wrong and not do the same.  That is comforting..... I've seen some terrible breeders at shows do some terrible things with there reptiles to sell.  One person I thought might not care as much about his snakes was Kerry King.  I was admirably pleased and couldn't help talking with him about it when I saw him so delicately picking up the babies he was selling and putting them in their transport bags to bring them home because the show was over.  Noone has more carpet pythons then him and he treats them with great handling care.

I once read a story on how a redtail boa guy years ago didn't know how to get his redtails to breed.  There was no caresheet or recipe for success for him.  He needed to transport his two adults to a different house and put them both together in a box not much larger than both of them combined. If I remember right the atmosphere was wet and rainy season where ever he was and guess what, they mated.  It was tight quarters, rainy, dark, a little colder probably than being in a snake cage and it resulted in some babies down the road.

Jay pulling out that snake is like any one of us pulling out our snakes to handle them.  It's just that ours aren't 275lbs.  I disturbed half of my carpets to take them out for family to hold over the weekend and experience some pythons of various sizes, ages, colors and temperaments.

In my tour of the Private 4 rooms we went into when I asked out of the blue Tim to get a tour, the cages were clean.  They had things organized with female adult breeder retics 80+ of them on one side of the building and on a completely different side of the building were the males.

I'm not at all saying Jay is a model snake keeper but he does have more experience than most of us here combined.  If sticking his fingers in a $20,000 snake egg is going to hurt it and ruin that investment he's not that stupid to do it, really he isn't.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't know why I am even spending so much time on this.... it just seemed like a witch hunt.

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## nickysaur

i think if thats at preistoric pets then its prolly in there for a good reason.
they are very good at what they do.
i do agree that is way small but i think theres reason

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