# Other Pets > Dogs >  Mistreated Dog

## Kira

So I work at a doggie day care and there is a 6 month old husky mix that comes in sporadically. I'm concerned about him because I can feel his ribs way better than I should be able to. I can't see them since he has so much fur but they definitely stick out. He only gets fed once a day, 3 cups at 6AM and isn't allowed to have water after 4PM. Whenever he comes here, I feed him 3x per day and he has access to water 24/7. Clearly he is super hungry because he eats like a starving wolf. His owner occasionally feeds him frozen mice and wanted us to do that while he was boarding with us but thankfully my manager shot that down. (We had to throw away a pack of 6 mice...)

Basically, I feel awful for this dog but I don't know what to do about it? I can't afford to lose my job so I don't know what to say to the owners. My manager hasn't said anything yet either but I know it also really bothers him how this poor dog is treated. Opinions?

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## MissterDog

Why isn't he allowed to have water after a certain time???? 

If your manager seems bothered by it, is it possible you could talk to him about it to see where he stands? Atleast that way you can check and see where you could overstep or not since you're worried.

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_Kira_ (05-29-2017)

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## Kira

Because they think it will make his poop runny yet they let him drink out of a river. It's bizarre.  I think that's a good idea. I'm just so frustrated with these people. Some people should really not own animals!

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_dakski_ (02-22-2018)

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## MissterDog

That's the stupidest reason I ever heard and I question their general intelligence. They should not be owning a dog! I wouldn't even know how I'd react to the situation but ugh, I definitely feel your frustration and anger!

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## KMG

Seeing the dog would help us confirm your worry. 

My Old English Bulldogs only eat once a day but they would eat twelve times a day if you fed them that much. They are pigs but feeding the proper amount once a day has them both in great shape. Most people overeat and if they do it they are extremely likely to overfeed their animals as well. Just like we have a large number of obese Americans there is a large number of overweight dogs. A dog shouldn't look like a sausage.....unless it's a dachshund. Lol! 

Eating mice may seem weird but there are plenty of people that feed their dogs nothing but raw foods. Mice may be out of the norm(for a dog) but I'm not going to condemn this person as bad dog owner because of it. Plenty of people here give left over mice and rats to their cats so I don't think you should be concerned with that.

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## 6037201

Reasoning with the owner, even if hes gonna be upset about this u wont be fired cuz ur manager was on the same page as u. For him to fire you it doesn't make any sense anyone would do that.

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## Kira

I don't have a pic but like I said, he has a lot of fur so it's hard to tell unless you feel him. I can feel his bones jutting out, that's not healthy especially for a growing dog. I *am* going to condemn these people as bad dog owners because who restricts their dog from water for 14 hours? That's unnecessary and cruel.

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_MissterDog_ (05-29-2017)

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## MissterDog

> Seeing the dog would help us confirm your worry. 
> 
> My Old English Bulldogs only eat once a day but they would eat twelve times a day if you fed them that much. They are pigs but feeding the proper amount once a day has them both in great shape. Most people overeat and if they do it they are extremely likely to overfeed their animals as well. Just like we have a large number of obese Americans there is a large number of overweight dogs. A dog shouldn't look like a sausage.....unless it's a dachshund. Lol! 
> 
> Eating mice may seem weird but there are plenty of people that feed their dogs nothing but raw foods. Mice may be out of the norm(for a dog) but I'm not going to condemn this person as bad dog owner because of it. Plenty of people here give left over mice and rats to their cats so I don't think you should be concerned with that.


Honestly the most worrying factor is that they are cutting off the dog's water.

I really don't think this is a potential overweight or diet issue, I think this is a case of owners being completely oblivious and putting restrictions not for the dog's health but for their own convenience.

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_Kira_ (05-29-2017)

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## KMG

> Honestly the most worrying factor is that they are cutting off the dog's water.
> 
> I really don't think this is a potential overweight or diet issue, I think this is a case of owners being completely oblivious and putting restrictions not for the dog's health but for their own convenience.


I agree.

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## Prognathodon

Our big huskies (25-26 inches at the shoulder, and 60-65 lbs in their prime) got 2 cups of dry food per day, split between morning and evening. One we got at about that age, and fed that amount. My 40-ish lb. husky mix (don't remember his height, bottom end of Siberian husky standard) gets 2/3 cup morning and same evening. The big huskies did get a high-quality high-protein food. Currently feeding a lamb & rice diet, high-quality.

So, depending on the size of the dog, 3 cups per day may be reasonable. More likely to my mind is the food quality. Worms or other health problems may also be the cause. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

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## Jeanne

We dont really know what the situation truley is.. they could be feeding the right amt.. how do we kno said dog doesnt have parasites helping to keep it thin... somethin to consider as well.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

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## KMG

One thing I do know is that if I found out my dogs were being fed three times what I specified I'd be pretty ticked off. 

My young OEB is just over a year. She is not filled out and looks thin compared to my old one(>5y). The young one is long and lean and her ribs can be easily felt but she is not underweight or under fed. She is just young. Both of my dogs have a tucked abdomen and visible waist as they should. 


I found this and thought it applied. 



Evaluate your dog using the following three-step process:

Look at your dog from the side.

Her tummy needs to tuck up from her chest and not be level with or hang below her chest. If you can easily see a dogs ribs, shes probably underweight. But in some breeds, including Greyhounds, Whippets, and Italian Greyhounds, the dogs ribs show at a normal weight. 

Breeds with heavy coats need closer scrutiny because you probably cant see ribs even when the dog is underweight, so try the next two steps for a more complete assessment.


Look at your dog from above.

As you stand over her and look down, your dog needs to have a visibly tucked-in waist, but her hipbones shouldnt protrude too severely. If your dog looks like a barrel, a sausage, or a small beach ball with legs, shes probably overweight. If her hips protrude sharply, shes probably underweight. If she has a nice curve inward at the waist, shes probably at a good weight.


Feel your dogs sides for the ribs.

This test is especially important for heavily coated dogs, whose fur often conceals weight issues. If you can feel no evidence that your dog possesses a rib cage, shes probably overweight.

If you can feel the ribs but they have a slight padding, like a light blanket over them, then your dog may be just right. If the ribs are obvious and feel like theyre covered with only the thinnest layer of skin, your dog may be underweight.

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_GoingPostal_ (05-30-2017),Timelugia (05-30-2017)

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## Kira

Feeding a young dog once a day and not giving it water for 14 hours is unacceptable no matter the circumstance. I'm honestly surprised with how many people seem okay with this?

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_MissterDog_ (05-30-2017),_redshepherd_ (05-30-2017)

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## MissterDog

I can totally get playing devil's advocate here, but I feel everyone is sorta just...ignoring the water restriction. Even if the food limitation wasn't an issue, even if the pup has some sort of illness preventing it from gaining weight, even if it's an ideal weight, I can't think of any reason denying a dog access to water is EVER acceptable. ESPECIALLY a high-energy, growing puppy in summer.

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_Booper_ (02-23-2018),_Kira_ (05-30-2017)

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## KMG

> I can totally get playing devil's advocate here, but I feel everyone is sorta just...ignoring the water restriction. Even if the food limitation wasn't an issue, even if the pup has some sort of illness preventing it from gaining weight, even if it's an ideal weight, I can't think of any reason denying a dog access to water is EVER acceptable. ESPECIALLY a high-energy, growing puppy in summer.


Yes, the dog should have water. My dogs always have fresh water. 

I already said I agree. What else is there for me, or any of us here, to do from our electronic device?

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## KMG

> Feeding a young dog once a day and not giving it water for 14 hours is unacceptable no matter the circumstance. I'm honestly surprised with how many people seem okay with this?


Maybe I'm missing something but when I read your first post I took it as yall feed the dog once while it is in doggie day care. This would tell me the owner would then feed it again later at home. That's what I would do if I was in that situation. Is this not the case?

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## KMG

BTW, my dogs eat like they are starving no matter what. That is not a sign for me the dog doesn't get fed at home.

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## MissterDog

> Yes, the dog should have water. My dogs always have fresh water. 
> 
> I already said I agree. What else is there for me, or any of us here, to do from our electronic device?


I wasn't challenging you directly, but as a general observation and reaction to the responses in the thread focused on the food intake and giving the owner the benefit of the doubt.

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## Kira

> Maybe I'm missing something but when I read your first post I took it as yall feed the dog once while it is in doggie day care. This would tell me the owner would then feed it again later at home. That's what I would do if I was in that situation. Is this not the case?



He was boarding so when he stayed with us (overnight for 3 days) we were instructed to feed him once at 6AM and to take away his water at 4PM. We were also given a bag of dirt to sprinkle over his food?

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## KMG

> He was boarding so when he stayed with us (overnight for 3 days) we were instructed to feed him once at 6AM and to take away his water at 4PM. We were also given a bag of dirt to sprinkle over his food?


Now that is more clear. 

Dirt? What was his reasoning for that?

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## Kira

> Now that is more clear. 
> 
> Dirt? What was his reasoning for that?


I have no idea. We just threw the dirt away.

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## KMG

> I wasn't challenging you directly, but as a general observation and reaction to the responses in the thread focused on the food intake and giving the owner the benefit of the doubt.


I'm with ya. But again it is not like we can do anything about it. This is very similar to the threads about poor conditions at pet stores but I have even less control since I can't vote with my wallet like I can with a store.

Not all people should have kids......or animals. 

At least he is boarding the dog and not locking it in a dark closet. In my line of work I've found that many times and it burns me up.

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## KMG

> I have no idea. We just threw the dirt away.


That's really strange.

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## GoingPostal

TBH-if this was my dog I'd be being pissed you aren't following what you are being paid to do, if there's an issue bring it up with the owner, don't be changing things on the dog since you have no idea what the logic is being any of it.   
Was the "dirt" possibly DE?

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KMG (05-30-2017)

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## Kira

We were still feeding it 3 cups, just spread through out the day so he wouldn't vomit from having an empty stomach.  What's the logic of restricting him from drinking for 14 hours? Nope, the dirt was literally a huge bag with dirt that had some grass, roots, and even an earthworm in it.

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skiajl6297 (05-30-2017)

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## KMG

The only person that can answer the "logic" of the water restriction is the owner. When he comes in ask him in an inquisitive manner what his dog keeping methods are. Maybe start with your integrated to know more because his practices are different and you would like to know more so you can better care for his dog. 


How do you know it's 14 hours the dog goes without water?

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## Kira

It's 14 hours because they give him water at 6AM and take it away at 4PM or sooner. 4PM is the latest that he is allowed to drink. So no water from 4PM to 6AM is 14 hours. It's ridiculous, especially in the hot summer months.

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## Bcycling

I have a gsp, which are thin dogs to begin with. She was incrdably skinny until she reached two years. She had ribs and spine showing at all times, but she was fed as much as she would eat, which was about three cups a day.  We also gave her a big can of wet food to try to get her to gain weight. Bet wasn't concerned as he knew we cared for our dogs and that she was given a lot of food if she wanted it.  She is a very active dog, as she is a hunting guide
dog.  I would say if the dog is super think talk about your concerns with the owner.  Larger double meals will cause the dog to retain more weight than a bunch of small meals. My guess is you are correct and the owner is clueless, but you never really know.  I know a guy who runs sled dogs and they are all really thin but eat whatever they can take in. Maybe there is more to the story than we know.

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## MissterDog

Something else to consider is if the dog is used to eating one meal a day, he's going to wolf that down faster than is considered healthy, especially in company of other dogs. That could potentially make him eat even faster and more prone to vomiting or even food aggression. If he's still getting 3 cups a day but spread out I don't think it's that big of a deal. I get the annoyance of finding out a worker is not following your instructions down to every detail, but what if the instructions are not reasonable and put the dog's health at risk? Or the other dogs? 

As for logic behind food restrictions, considering the owner's reasoning for water limitation and random dirt spicing, I doubt the owners have any rational "logic" for the 1 meal rule other than convienience. I question if they have any logic at all. Honestly it sounds like they are trying some experimental nonsense without factoring in what's best for a growing puppy.

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_Kira_ (05-30-2017),_redshepherd_ (05-30-2017)

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## MissterDog

Btw any feedback from your supervisor on what you are allowed or not allowed to say?

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## Kira

> Btw any feedback from your supervisor on what you are allowed or not allowed to say?


No, I'm going to talk to him today. But I kind of have a feeling that these people won't care or listen? Still worth a shot in my opinion though. Everyone please realize that I wouldn't have made this thread unless I was pretty sure about the neglect. They really don't seem like they know how to care for a dog.

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## Kcl

The combination of the dirt, the mice, and everything sounds like nutty homeopathy-style theories for dogs to me. I'm honestly a fan of some of the hippie nonsense that's better supported (e.g. raw feeding, not feeding cats a bunch of grains) and don't see any issue with feeding frozen mice to a dog. It's healthier for them than a whole lot of stuff that dogs commonly get fed. But then there's the people with really weird, clearly wrong ideas like vegan cats or at a less nutty degree but similarly harmful, any raw feeding is better for dogs/cats so let's throw some meat in a bowl and call it good until the cat goes blind from lack of taurine. 

Closest I could find - but this holistic dog website advocated "soil based organisms" for dogs. That could easily be morphed into "feed them some dirt."
https://thewholedog.com/soil-based-o...sbos-for-pets/

Sooo if this is what's actually happening...I have a feeling you're not going to be able to convince them of anything at all. People who are just doing things for convenience don't really go to the effort of getting mice and bags of dirt so I feel like that's not it. 

You can see what you can convince them of, but if not, you might have to just keep an eye on it and see if it gets bad enough to report as abuse.

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_Kira_ (05-30-2017),_Lizardlicks_ (05-30-2017),_MissterDog_ (05-30-2017)

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## redshepherd

To be totally honest, the owners with their mice (arguable, but still hinting at weirdness so it adds up) and sprinkling dirt on the dog's food, keeping the dog too thin, and taking water away from 4pm to 6am sounds creepy and wrong as heck. I'd bring it up with the owners too, but they sound like they lack reasoning or logic as normal people to begin with. 

Some people are just crazy and wrong and there's not much for a doggy daycare person to do about it, if the owners choose not to listen. Many people who shouldn't own animals, have animals. But if the animal isn't in extremely poor condition to qualify as abuse, other people can't do much about it except feel sorry for the animal for having neglectful owners. I'm sorry you have to witness this. :\

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_Kira_ (05-30-2017),_MissterDog_ (05-30-2017)

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## Lizardlicks

Yeah, seconding kcl here, it doesn't sound like a convenience issue, it sounds like one of the more extreme wildly out there holistic homeopathy diet things that people get conned into.  In which case, good luck getting the owner to change their mind at all.

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_Kira_ (05-30-2017),_MissterDog_ (05-30-2017)

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## Kcl

> To be totally honest, the owners with their mice (arguable, but still hinting at weirdness so it adds up)


The mice is definitely a part of what leads me to the weird homeopathy/naturopathy theory. Mice could be a healthy part of a sane, well-researched, species-appropriate diet - this is...clearly not that. Feeding whole prey to dogs and cats happens to be both reasonable in theory and if used properly and also frequently used in communities of animal lovers whose pet health theories seem to be mostly based in woo.

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_MissterDog_ (05-30-2017)

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## KMG

> Sooo if this is what's actually happening...I have a feeling you're not going to be able to convince them of anything at all. People who are just doing things for convenience don't really go to the effort of getting mice and bags of dirt so I feel like that's not it.


I think a person would be out of line trying to convince the owner his methods are wrong if the above is similar to what the dog owner is following. Especially a business. They have no right to change my methods and if a business really has a problem with it they should simply refuse service. 

If this owner is choosing such a lifestyle for his dog and finds out the "dirt" he brought up to be used was thrown away I think he would have every right to be angry. I would be. 

In all honesty if I was this owner I would no longer use this business if I found out my plan was not being followed at all and items I brought up were simply thrown away.

The water issue should be discussed by the manager and dog owner. It should be resolved before the dog stays at the facility again.

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## redshepherd

> I think a person would be out of line trying to convince the owner his methods are wrong if the above is similar to what the dog owner is following. Especially a business. They have no right to change my methods and if a business really has a problem with it they should simply refuse service. 
> 
> If this owner is choosing such a lifestyle for his dog and finds out the "dirt" he brought up to be used was thrown away I think he would have every right to be angry. I would be. 
> 
> In all honesty if I was this owner I would no longer use this business if I found out my plan was not being followed at all and items I brought up were simply thrown away.
> 
> The water issue should be discussed by the manager and dog owner. It should be resolved before the dog stays at the facility again.


I have to make a point here. Just for example... If someone wanted you to care for their green tree python who is underweight, kept in a glass tank with no perch, tells you to keep in 20% humidity, and feed it only once a month. It's alive and surviving, but not ideal. Would you do what they say, because you have "no right to change their care"? Or would you do what's best for the animal?

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_Kira_ (05-30-2017),_MissterDog_ (05-30-2017)

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## Kcl

As long as they're saying upfront "no I will not feed those mice, no I will not feed that dirt" etc, I really don't believe there's anything wrong with it. They're not obligated to do it. If I had a dog and believed in slapping it in the face three times a day to make sure it "respected" me, I doubt I'd get any doggy daycare to keep up my training methods even if I was entitled to do it that way (note: I don't specifically know the legalities of periodically slapping your dog in the face, but it's illegal not to provide an animal water at all times in some places. The slapping is likely to be ok in more jurisdictions). 

If they're lying and saying they'll do it, that's a problem but if not, it's well within their rights and perfectly sensible. Doggy daycares do not take care of your pet in the exact same way you do. Often it's just for practicality rather than thinking the owner's methods are wrong. I don't think it's out of line for an animal care place to say something if they think the owner's methods are abusive - and in some places denying an animal water for any reason is legally defined as such, correctly or incorrectly. It is of course also perfectly within the owner's rights to never go to that place again for any reason whatsoever.

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_Kira_ (05-30-2017),_MissterDog_ (05-30-2017),_redshepherd_ (05-30-2017)

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## MissterDog

> I think a person would be out of line trying to convince the owner his methods are wrong if the above is similar to what the dog owner is following. Especially a business. They have no right to change my methods and if a business really has a problem with it they should simply refuse service. 
> 
> If this owner is choosing such a lifestyle for his dog and finds out the "dirt" he brought up to be used was thrown away I think he would have every right to be angry. I would be. 
> 
> In all honesty if I was this owner I would no longer use this business if I found out my plan was not being followed at all and items I brought up were simply thrown away.
> 
> The water issue should be discussed by the manager and dog owner. It should be resolved before the dog stays at the facility again.


Going to add to what red said because I was literally thinking the same thing.

A doggy daycare/ boarding' duty first and foremost is the well being of the dogs and looking after them. Following the instructions of the owner is included but not limited to if said instructions jeopardize the dog's health, then they don't have to comply.

The owners could very well say if the dog barks at all to slap them across the face with a belt, or as treats feed this dog grapes and chocolates, would you follow those instructions out of "respect" of the owner's chosen lifestyle?

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_Kira_ (05-30-2017),_redshepherd_ (05-30-2017)

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## MissterDog

> As long as they're saying upfront "no I will not feed those mice, no I will not feed that dirt" etc, I really don't believe there's anything wrong with it. They're not obligated to do it. If I had a dog and believed in slapping it in the face three times a day to make sure it "respected" me, I doubt I'd get any doggy daycare to keep up my training methods even if I was entitled to do it that way (note: I don't specifically know the legalities of periodically slapping your dog in the face, but it's illegal not to provide an animal water at all times in some places. The slapping is likely to be ok in more jurisdictions). 
> 
> If they're lying and saying they'll do it, that's a problem but if not, it's well within their rights and perfectly sensible. Doggy daycares do not take care of your pet in the exact same way you do. Often it's just for practicality rather than thinking the owner's methods are wrong. I don't think it's out of line for an animal care place to say something if they think the owner's methods are abusive - and in some places denying an animal water for any reason is legally defined as such, correctly or incorrectly. It is of course also perfectly within the owner's rights to never go to that place again for any reason whatsoever.


heh! You beat me to the punch!

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_Kcl_ (05-30-2017)

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## Kira

Thank you everyone for your responses. The owners have been told multiple times that we will not feed the dog mice or dirt yet they still always bring the dirt. I'm not paid to blindly follow whatever instructions the owners give us, I'm paid to ensure the well-being of the dogs. We are transparent about not using the dirt or mice and that we give him water access 24/7, yet they still come in.

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_Kcl_ (05-30-2017),_MissterDog_ (05-30-2017)

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## Kcl

> Thank you everyone for your responses. The owners have been told multiple times that we will not feed the dog mice or dirt yet they still always bring the dirt. I'm not paid to blindly follow whatever instructions the owners give us, I'm paid to ensure the well-being of the dogs. We are transparent about not using the dirt or mice and that we give him water access 24/7, yet they still come in.


I figured that's what you guys did about the mice and dirt. Deefinitely sounds like these people are nutty and you probably won't be able to do anything unless the dog starts being in bad enough shape to involve the authorities. :/

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_Kira_ (05-30-2017),_MissterDog_ (05-30-2017)

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## Kira

> I figured that's what you guys did about the mice and dirt. Deefinitely sounds like these people are nutty and you probably won't be able to do anything unless the dog starts being in bad enough shape to involve the authorities. :/


Right? 99% of the time we will follow an owners instructions, even if we don't quite agree. There is an overweight pug that gets one dog treat each day and even though he doesn't really NEED any treats, we still give him one. But with this husky, too many lines are crossed. To me, the weird water restriction is the worst part. That could cause some serious health issues. I can't imagine how the dog feels because I feel like I'm dying if I don't have water for more than 2 hours. 

The problem right now is that I don't think it's bad enough for the authorities quite yet. My coworkers and I think he is WAY too skinny but he's not on his death bed yet. That's why I wrote this post; I want to help this dog but I don't think speaking to the owners would help since they seem so set in their ways.

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_MissterDog_ (05-30-2017)

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## Kcl

Unfortunately, I think you're probably already doing everything you can do. If it's not a clear-cut case yet, taking it to the authorities will likely cause trouble at your job. You can take it as far as you are comfortable with your manager, but speaking to the owners yourself would have a high likelihood of losing your job. Waiting and watching is pretty much your best option. It's really just another example of the hardest lesson for anyone who involves themselves in animal rescue in any capacity - you really can't take responsibility for every animal and sometimes you just have to do what you can and then do your best to let it go.

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_Kira_ (05-30-2017),_Lizardlicks_ (05-30-2017),_MissterDog_ (05-30-2017)

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## KMG

> I have to make a point here. Just for example... If someone wanted you to care for their green tree python who is underweight, kept in a glass tank with no perch, tells you to keep in 20% humidity, and feed it only once a month. It's alive and surviving, but not ideal. Would you do what they say, because you have "no right to change their care"? Or would you do what's best for the animal?


I'd have a conversation with the person and if we didn't agree on the requested methods I wouldn't care for the animal. 

Im not going to take a animal that is not in the best of health and care for it. That opens you to many issues if the animal takes a turn for the worst in my care. 


My vet requires a flu shot for all dogs being boarded. I don't get a flu shot and I sure never got my dogs one. However, when I needed to board them they told me it was required or my dog could not stay with them. I agreed and had it done so they got to stay. If I refused they would have refused me service and would have been well within their rights to do so.

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_AbsoluteApril_ (05-30-2017)

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## AbsoluteApril

> Because they think it will make his poop runny yet they let him drink out of a river.


Simply curious and you may not know (and I'm not asking you to ask the owners!) but I wonder if they keep him outside during the hours they restrict the water but he has access to the river? Not saying it's right, just wondering if they feel this is good enough (since they seem to have some odd views on what the dog should have).

anyways, what a mess! I hope the pupper is okay in the long run.

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KMG (05-30-2017)

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## KMG

> Simply curious and you may not know (and I'm not asking you to ask the owners!) but I wonder if they keep him outside during the hours they restrict the water but he has access to the river? Not saying it's right, just wondering if they feel this is good enough (since they seem to have some odd views on what the dog should have).
> 
> anyways, what a mess! I hope the pupper is okay in the long run.



Good call. 

Im a country boy and growing up my dogs drank out of all the ponds and creeks we would play in. Even today my dogs drink lake water when I take them fishing on my boat.

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## Kcl

> I'd have a conversation with the person and if we didn't agree on the requested methods I wouldn't care for the animal. 
> 
> Im not going to take a animal that is not in the best of health and care for it. That opens you to many issues if the animal takes a turn for the worst in my care. 
> 
> 
> My vet requires a flu shot for all dogs being boarded. I don't get a flu shot and I sure never got my dogs one. However, when I needed to board them they told me it was required or my dog could not stay with them. I agreed and had it done so they got to stay. If I refused they would have refused me service and would have been well within their rights to do so.


I feel like the fact that they continue to bring the dog and pay for the service despite being repeatedly told that the service does not include being fed mice and dirt and restricting water is sufficient acceptance of those terms. If a customer were to go into a restaurant every week and insist on receiving broccoli and cheese soup without the broccoli, be told that it's not an option, and receive, eat, and pay for regular broccoli and cheese soup every time, I don't think it's incumbent on the restaurant to ban the customer.  Clearly you're the kind of person who would do the sensible thing and just not go to that restaurant because they don't have what you want. Some people will not. I don't get their motivations, but as long as they're making the choice with full knowledge, why should the business stop them?

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_Kira_ (05-30-2017),_MissterDog_ (05-30-2017)

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## ElliotNess

I'm curious as to what this dirt is... are we talking actual dirt? Outside on the ground, brown dirt. 

I ask cause we give joint supplements to my wife's senior boxer and it looks just like dirt.

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## Kira

> Simply curious and you may not know (and I'm not asking you to ask the owners!) but I wonder if they keep him outside during the hours they restrict the water but he has access to the river? Not saying it's right, just wondering if they feel this is good enough (since they seem to have some odd views on what the dog should have).
> 
> anyways, what a mess! I hope the pupper is okay in the long run.


I'm honestly not sure . Either way they wanted us to take away all of his water after 4PM and not give him water until 6AM so it's still a 14 hour period without water:/

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## Kira

> I'm curious as to what this dirt is... are we talking actual dirt? Outside on the ground, brown dirt. 
> 
> I ask cause we give joint supplements to my wife's senior boxer and it looks just like dirt.


It's actual dirt like from their yard or something. It has grass, roots, and sometimes worms in it. Definitely not a supplement .

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## KMG

> I feel like the fact that they continue to bring the dog and pay for the service despite being repeatedly told that the service does not include being fed mice and dirt and restricting water is sufficient acceptance of those terms. If a customer were to go into a restaurant every week and insist on receiving broccoli and cheese soup without the broccoli, be told that it's not an option, and receive, eat, and pay for regular broccoli and cheese soup every time, I don't think it's incumbent on the restaurant to ban the customer.  Clearly you're the kind of person who would do the sensible thing and just not go to that restaurant because they don't have what you want. Some people will not. I don't get their motivations, but as long as they're making the choice with full knowledge, why should the business stop them?


I'm with ya there. 

The fact that the person keeps bringing items the facility refuses to use tells me the dog's owner  doesn't know it is not being used and is being thrown away. Certainly this guy isn't that wasteful that he would want mice and "dirt" he brings in thrown away. But maybe he is. 

I really don't know what is going on as the facts have been trickling in since the start of the thread and we really don't have good information on this person's method. We really only have a outside person's observations. 

It may be completely logical but outside the norm. That doesn't mean it is wrong. I don't agree with many people's lifestyle but that doesn't make it wrong. I don't have to like it and they don't have to like mine. 

I think a serious conversation needs to happen so both sides are completely clear on what is going to be done and what is not. It should be clearly defined.

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## Kcl

> The fact that the person keeps bringing items the facility refuses to use tells me the owners doesn't know it is not being used and is being thrown away. Certainly this guy isn't that wasteful that he would want mice and "dirt" he brings in thrown away.


I think you'd be surprised about how many people would keep bringing it in anyway after being clearly and repeatedly told it will be thrown away (substitute any other clear instruction here where people will still insist on doing the opposite and be shocked when it's not allowed but continue to try the next time and the next). That's logical people brain speaking - it's a poor model for the behavior of probably at least 10% of the population.  I've seen it in person more than enough.

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_Kira_ (05-30-2017),_Lizardlicks_ (05-30-2017),_MissterDog_ (05-30-2017)

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## Kira

> I'm with ya there. 
> 
> The fact that the person keeps bringing items the facility refuses to use tells me the dog's owner  doesn't know it is not being used and is being thrown away. Certainly this guy isn't that wasteful that he would want mice and "dirt" he brings in thrown away. But maybe he is. 
> 
> I really don't know what is going on as the facts have been trickling in since the start of the thread and we really don't have good information on this person's method. We really only have a outside person's observations. 
> 
> It may be completely logical but outside the norm. That doesn't mean it is wrong. I don't agree with many people's lifestyle but that doesn't make it wrong. I don't have to like it and they don't have to like mine. 
> 
> I think a serious conversation needs to happen so both sides are completely clear on what is going to be done and what is not. It should be clearly defined.


I don't know what to tell you. We have talked to him. He no longer brings the mice but will still bring dirt half the time.  Nope it's not logical to restrict a dog from drinking for 14 hours. That is wrong.

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_MissterDog_ (05-30-2017)

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## KMG

> I think you'd be surprised about how many people would keep bringing it in anyway after being clearly and repeatedly told it will be thrown away (substitute any other clear instruction here where people will still insist on doing the opposite and be shocked when it's not allowed but continue to try the next time and the next). That's logical people brain speaking - it's a poor model for the behavior of probably at least 10% of the population.  I've seen it in person more than enough.





> I don't know what to tell you. We have talked to him. He no longer brings the mice but will still bring dirt half the time.  Nope it's not logical to restrict a dog from drinking for 14 hours. That is wrong.


KCL, 
You are probably right. He is probably hoping he gets a new person that doesn't know and agrees to use it. 


Kira, 
I AGREE NOT ALLOWING WATER FOR 14 HOURS IS NOT GOOD. I've said that many times.

If your manager has discussed it with the owner that is all you can do until you're manager.

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## sufficio

Even with the amount of crazies in the world, this is like..unbelievable. What insane line of thinking leads people to make these choices?!? Can you take a picture of the dirt they give you? I'm genuinely curious.

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_Kira_ (05-30-2017)

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## Kira

> Even with the amount of crazies in the world, this is like..unbelievable. What insane line of thinking leads people to make these choices?!? Can you take a picture of the dirt they give you? I'm genuinely curious.


Right? We have never experienced something like this here before. Sure, I can get a pic next time he comes in!

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## KMG

> Even with the amount of crazies in the world, this is like..unbelievable. What insane line of thinking leads people to make these choices?!? Can you take a picture of the dirt they give you? I'm genuinely curious.


Hey! A little dirt don't hurt!  Lol! 


Yall should see some of the things I have as a LEO. Most are very sad. 

I once found two emaciated pits in the backyard of a guy selling.......... let's just say they weren't girl scout cookies. 

He had a choice of going to jail or buying dog food. 

We went to the corner store and bought ever can of food they had. 

I fed them that night and reported them to the SPCA who came the next day and picked them up.

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## Lizardlicks

> I think you'd be surprised about how many people would keep bringing it in anyway after being clearly and repeatedly told it will be thrown away (substitute any other clear instruction here where people will still insist on doing the opposite and be shocked when it's not allowed but continue to try the next time and the next). That's logical people brain speaking - it's a poor model for the behavior of probably at least 10% of the population.  I've seen it in person more than enough.


Haha yeah, work in any retail setting for any amount of time and absolutely nothing a customer will say or do will ever surprise you again.

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_Kira_ (05-30-2017)

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## Mike17

I would start by asking if it is their first dog, if it is then try to explain and instruct on proper dog care.

If it isn't then ask what was their past dogs and what were their results with them. And you can start building up from that. Information is the key.

For example my past dog was a golden lab, smart and clever as any. Learned to pee and poo outside and even how to jump and open the door in 1 day. But golden labs are ranked as #3 for dog smartness. Now I have a Great Dane ranked #32, obviously he took a couple of weeks to learn the trick but we got him to. Now his nickname is 32 LOL! 

And every race has their own personality, golden labs are born to serve, they only think of how to make their masters happy and food. GD on the other hand well they behave more like cats, they have a great posture and walk very proud and will rarely obey an order they don't feel like.

Now on the food, my golden lab would it to death if allowed, the GD will eat just what he needs even if the plate is served all day long. Really every dog is different but specially every race is different. Probably they had a Chihuahua before and think everything is the same and want to feed him like his Chihuahua, who knows? I would strongly suggest to inquire the background and build up based on info. and experience.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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_Kira_ (05-31-2017)

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## Aster

Anonymously report the owners to local animal control.

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