# Ball Pythons > BP Husbandry > Advanced BP Husbandry >  Who doesn't use a water bowl?

## Mike41793

Strictly speaking, ball pythons only, does anyone NOT use a water bowl or use one during only certain times of the year? 

I'm asking this for a couple of reasons... 

1. Most of mine ALWAYS tip their bowls and flood their tubs. If they can't flip them they must plunge their bodies into them so the water just archimedes itself right out of the bowl. Now, this usually isn't a problem because i usually can change them the same day. Now that i'm up into the double digits though, sometimes i have to skip a day and i feel bad leaving them on the wet paper. I know a lot of BIG breeders only clean once a week so i know the snake is gunna be fine, but still, they're my pets and i like to keep them happy. 

2. I rarely see my snakes drink. Year round the room stays between 70-80 degrees. The last time i saw one drink was when i pulled my cinny off her eggs and put her into a fresh tub. I had kept the tub really humid for her too to lay the eggs. I'm assuming laying just took a lot out of her. 

3. I feed f/t. For god knows what reason some of them love to drag their rats into their water bowls. Sometimes after they do this they just don't wanna eat it afterwards. That leaves me with a nasty mess to clean up and a wasted rat. Also, if they happen to flood their tubs on feeding day, some of them won't eat if their tub is all wet, which means another wasted rat. 

4. I've seen people on here before mention that balls get most of the moisture they need from their food. This makes sense because people are also always saying they spend a majority of their time in rodent burrows/termite mounds and moving to new ones to look for food. So for a majority of the time, when in the burrows, they wouldn't have access to any water, correct? 

 I was thinking what if you only kept a water dish in their tub while they were going through a shed cycle? That's really the main time when higher humidity is most important to them. Semi-recently i've expanded into the world of tarantulas and learned a lot. Like balls, T's get a lot of their moisture from their prey. With that said, some species still need additional moisture so I provide them with a water dish. But on the flip side, some species don't need any water dish and get all the moisture they need from their food.  Comparing that to bps, i'm just thinking maybe they're a species of snake that doesn't need a water dish. Does anyone know of other species of snake that are commonly kept without a water dish because the snakes simply don't need it? 

I'd like to also add that i'm NOT asking this because i'm trying to cut corners or be lazy or neglect my snakes in any way. (Notice i posted this in the ADVANCED husbandry section lol). I just wanna know if anyones tried keeping their balls without water dishes and how it's worked out for them.

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_Pyrate81_ (08-03-2013),_WmHrbst_ (08-03-2013)

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## toyota89

I don't have an answer for you mike because the only Bp I have that makes a mess with his water is the cinnamon I got from you.

Sent from my Droid RAZR M using Tapatalk 2

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## S.I.R.

One quick trick we use sometimes is to cut a small segment of 4" PVC pipe(about 3" in length).  Then use all natural rubber caulk or aquarium sealer(no chemical or silicone based caulk) and go around the inside and outside of the PVC ring, place firmly on bottom of tub, and let dry for 24 hours.  After that place water bowl or deli cup inside and no more tipping over.  Works great every time.  Good luck!

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_Flikky_ (08-02-2013)

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## Anya

> I don't have an answer for you mike because the only Bp I have that makes a mess with his water is the cinnamon I got from you.
> 
> Sent from my Droid RAZR M using Tapatalk 2



 :ROFL:  :ROFL: 

It's all your fault, Mike. You have defective water-tipping snakes.

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## ARamos8

If I get thirsty I get a drink of water.  If they get thirsty they have the option.  Just because you didn't see me drink doesn't mean I didn't.  :Very Happy:

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## KMG

My snakes are well behaved Mike. Maybe you should send yours to finishing school to learn some manners.

I use ceramic bowls and have never had one tipped or overflow. Maybe you should put less water in them.

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## Mike41793

> I don't have an answer for you mike because the only Bp I have that makes a mess with his water is the cinnamon I got from you.
> 
> Sent from my Droid RAZR M using Tapatalk 2


Well my fire does it too and he's one of the pains in the ass who drops his rats into the water bowl sometimes. So have fun with him too lol. 

I can't do the pvc idea because i use newspaper as substrate. 

I usually only fill them halfway. I'm telling you, i've watched them do it even with the ceramic bowls. They push on the front of the tub with their face and the water bowl with their neck at the same and tip them so water spills out. A few times i've seen them do this and then go right back into their hides. They aren't out actively hunting or have a messy tub, they just do it for fun it seems...

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## Mike41793

> If I get thirsty I get a drink of water.  If they get thirsty they have the option.  Just because you didn't see me drink doesn't mean I didn't.


Yep i get that. But if we hung out for like 5+ years everyday i'd see you get a drink of water. A lot of drinks probably. In my experience of keeping them i can probably count on one hand the number of times i've seen them get a drink. I'll stretch it and say MAYBE 10 times total. Thats overestimating though.

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## Mike41793

Oh perfect here we go. Tonites feeding nite and my fire is cooperating. 

The fire boy proving my point! He's been like this for an hour now.

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_AlexisFitzy_ (12-08-2013),_WmHrbst_ (08-03-2013)

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## kameo37

Well, I'm certainly no expert, but here goes...
I don't know about the tipping thing, but how about taking the water bowl out before feeding? That way at least you won't have a wasted rat.

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## liv

Mine don't tip it but sometimes my pastel finds away to drag all her paper towels and shmush them into her water bowl... I have no idea why or how.

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## Daybreaker

I use bowls: some are well mannered enough to have plastic crock bowls and the ones that are bad about tipping have the heavier ceramic ones. I just feel better with them having access to fresh water  :Embarassed:

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## Artemille

My adults have ceramic bowls that are 5-6" wide and 2 1/2" tall. The babies have ~4" ceramic bowls with rubber non-slip bases. They're all on aspen about 1/2" with bare tub floor under the water bowl and the tubs have flat bottoms. I've never seen mine move their bowls more than an inch to squeeze around it. Honestly I think I manage to spill more aspen bits into their water bowl than they do.

I've seen mine drink, and I can't predict when they may happen to want a drink, so they always have fresh water.

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## CrystalRose

Ella loves to drop her rat in her water. So what I do now is,I take the bowl out before I feed her. Then I put it back in once she's done eating. She's never knocked it over so I leave it in there unless it's time to feed her.

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## Alicia

All that water dish spilling seems super weird to me. I use ceramic dishes, also, and very, very rarely have spills. I literally can't think of the last time one of my snake has managed to spill a correctly sized dish. When someone does have some kind of water dish problem, it's usually piling substrate into it.

But as far as drinking goes, I see them drink all the time. Usually right after I change everyone's water. The bold snakes come out and start drinking before I'm done, the shier critters creep out to drink as soon as I back away. Water dishes get cleaned and changed at least twice a week and my animals definitely seem to anticipate it. FWIW, I'm on a well. The dishes get filled straight from the fridge (which is filtered, unlike the tap) and comes out at a pretty chilly 54-56 degrees. The snakes drink it immediately and have yet to a have a problem as a result.




> 4. I've seen people on here before mention that balls get most of the moisture they need from their food. This makes sense because people are also always saying they spend a majority of their time in rodent burrows/termite mounds and moving to new ones to look for food. So for a majority of the time, when in the burrows, they wouldn't have access to any water, correct? 
> .



For some reason, I really, really wanted to address this, because I'm curious about something. How many radio telemetry studies have been done on ball pythons? What were and where are the results? I tried Googling it and nothing  :Sad: 

I think they're in burrows most of their time, too. At least, during the time humans are awake and looking for them. . . . They're certainly found most often in burrows. But they're not there constantly. I would be surprised if they didn't move around more and hunted primarily as ambush predators, like most (all?) other species of python and leave their favorite burrows when they felt hungry or thirsty. They definitely wait in a classic python ambush position to be fed. So, I dunno. Just a thought, tossing it out there.





> I was thinking what if you only kept a water dish in their tub while they were going through a shed cycle? That's really the main time when higher humidity is most important to them. Semi-recently i've expanded into the world of tarantulas and learned a lot. Like balls, T's get a lot of their moisture from their prey. With that said, some species still need additional moisture so I provide them with a water dish. But on the flip side, some species don't need any water dish and get all the moisture they need from their food.  Comparing that to bps, i'm just thinking maybe they're a species of snake that doesn't need a water dish. Does anyone know of other species of snake that are commonly kept without a water dish because the snakes simply don't need it?



For me, I wouldn't make a habit of it, just because they're not a desert species. I have a rosy boa, who does not always have access to water, but they're a very different animal. Ball Pythons (mine, anyway, who are very well behaved) drink a lot and pee regularly -- more often as youngsters, about one or twice a week for the adults. That tells me it's natural to them to have access to liquid water and like snakes of all kind,s, really love fresh water especially. Offering a smaller amount of water and changing it more frequently, maybe, might help with the spillage?

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## DooLittle

*knocks on wood*  I don't have any bowl tippers.  Occasionally they will push their towels around and get them in their bowl like a sponge.  But I could count that on one hand.   Mine all have water dishes.  I have caught all of mine drinking.  Usually after eating is when I catch them drinking.  I feed live.  Dont know if that makes any difference. But maybe since the rat isnt wet they need to "wash it down"?

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## M&H

I recently cracked a few of my ceramic bowls so had to make a trip to the dollar store. They only had a few so I had to pick up a new one. Apparently these are harder to flip and I have one in my big girl's cage. She is 26 lbs and I have seen her push it around especially around dinner time. She has yet to flip it thank goodness. Maybe could try those? I've seen all my snakes drink, including the ball pythons, although some more than others. 


This is her with the bowl. I have another one with her body on it. She was actually trying to hold onto it as I was pulling her out to clean. That one has poop though and no one wants to see that.

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## bcr229

I have two regular "tippers" in my BP rack.  They get these water dishes for now: http://www.petco.com/product/119462/...oodWaterDishes - and they don't tip.  Even my BCI's, which are much bigger and stronger than my BP's, don't dump them.

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## Dave Green

I use large bowls that when tipped hit the ceiling of the bin before they spill.  I also only put an inch or so of water in them so if they soak very little, or no, water is spilled.

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## Neal

Yea, I've never had bowl tippers either but then again I use the ceramic bowls. They seem to do the trick for me at least.

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_AlexisFitzy_ (12-08-2013)

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## MootWorm

I use the heavy ceramic bowls, and they're too tall to tip in a tub anyways. Works like a charm so far! My big pin is also a rat dunker, which disgusts me to no end, but what can ya do? Lol he's also one that appreciates a fresh bowl of water. Whenever I take out his bowl, he pops his head out of his hide like "Hey, whatcha doing with that?" Then when the fresh water comes in, he beelines it to the dish for a sip. He's quite the character  :Smile:

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## Mike41793

I think the bowl tipping could be because they're hungry. I'm gunna up everyones feeding schedule and see if that fixes it. 

I still wanna know if anyone doesn't use bowls though lol....

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## Poseidon

Viperkeeper on Youtube doesn't use water bowls for most of his snakes. He uses one of these:
 to offer water to his snakes. He offers it to their heads and sometimes they drink, and sometimes he sprays their backs and they drink off of that. Worth a try.

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## cory9oh4

Dollar tree has some water bowls that are shape like a star and almost impossible to tip over, at least from a snake. They only cost a dollar. They were meant to hold potpourri but work great as water dish!

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## Mike41793

> Viperkeeper on Youtube doesn't use water bowls for most of his snakes. He uses one of these:
>  to offer water to his snakes. He offers it to their heads and sometimes they drink, and sometimes he sprays their backs and they drink off of that. Worth a try.


I just looked that guy up, he's nuts lol 

Yea a dollar tree just opened up in the town next to mine, i'll have to check it out!

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_STjepkes_ (08-09-2013)

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## M&NSnakeDen

I just came home from work to this. 
Allllll part of the fun. I can't imagine how frustrating it would be if I had my babes on any sort of mulchy substrate lol.






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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_AlexisFitzy_ (12-08-2013),_Mike41793_ (08-03-2013)

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## cory9oh4

> I just came home from work to this. 
> Allllll part of the fun. I can't imagine how frustrating it would be if I had my babes on any sort of mulchy substrate lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Lmao, i love his snake-made hide!

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## cory9oh4

> I just looked that guy up, he's nuts lol 
> 
> Yea a dollar tree just opened up in the town next to mine, i'll have to check it out!



Here is a link to what I was talking about. Cheap, sturdy, and perfect!

http://www.dollartree.com/assets/pro...rge/913771.jpg

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_AlexisFitzy_ (12-08-2013),*bcr229* (08-03-2013),_Mike41793_ (08-03-2013)

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## M&NSnakeDen

> Lmao, i love his snake-made hide!


HER, actually, and she's a 400g terror. 
She consistently makes a mess of the place. Her go-to is poopin right after deep cleans. *grumble grumble* LOL


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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_AlexisFitzy_ (12-08-2013),_Mike41793_ (08-03-2013)

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## cory9oh4

> HER, actually, and she's a 400g terror. 
> She consistently makes a mess of the place. Her go-to is poopin right after deep cleans. *grumble grumble* LOL
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


haha I HATE when that happens! What gets me is when they tip the water and poop within the same time frame. Then were left with chocolate milk to clean up!  :Wag of the finger:

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## M&NSnakeDen

> haha I HATE when that happens! What gets me is when they tip the water and poop within the same time frame. Then were left with chocolate milk to clean up!


I think they enjoy it.  :Rolleyes2: 
This particular girl of mine is quite the hissy one & was especially unimpressed when I took her out last night. I think this was her protest against me.

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## WmHrbst

> Oh perfect here we go. Tonites feeding nite and my fire is cooperating. 
> 
> The fire boy proving my point! He's been like this for an hour now.


LOL I thought you took that pic from my tubs! I get that one a lot with the same water bowls.

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_Mike41793_ (08-03-2013)

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## wwmjkd

> Well my fire does it too and he's one of the pains in the ass who drops his rats into the water bowl sometimes. So have fun with him too lol. 
> 
> I can't do the pvc idea because i use newspaper as substrate. 
> 
> I usually only fill them halfway. I'm telling you, i've watched them do it even with the ceramic bowls. They push on the front of the tub with their face and the water bowl with their neck at the same and tip them so water spills out. A few times i've seen them do this and then go right back into their hides. They aren't out actively hunting or have a messy tub, they just do it for fun it seems...


you might consider the PVC coupler route, despite using newspaper. in my experience it hasn't made a difference with any substrate. I've had exactly one spilled water cup in about a year and a half.

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## Shadera

Never heard of anyone doing it, but if it works for you and your animals are healthy, why not?

I use pvc couplers and deli cups.  Lately, I've been doing as a friend of mine does, and using a bead of silicone to attach couplers to a cheapo ceramic tile.  No more tipping, even for my hardcore mess makers.

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_Mike41793_ (08-03-2013)

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## bcr229

> Here is a link to what I was talking about. Cheap, sturdy, and perfect!
> 
> http://www.dollartree.com/assets/pro...rge/913771.jpg


Thanks, I think I'll pick some up.  Some may even be used for something other than snake water dishes.  :Very Happy:  

BTW I know a local breeder who uses these tealight candle holders for hatchlings - he swears the babies can't dump them.   http://www.quickcandles.com/Clear-Gl...-p/1120_72.htm They're not very big so you have to top them off daily, and even if one did get dumped it wouldn't make a huge mess.  They're also cheap enough that if one does get dirtied, it's easy to keep clean spares on hand.

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_Mike41793_ (08-03-2013)

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## toyota89

> Oh perfect here we go. Tonites feeding nite and my fire is cooperating. 
> 
> The fire boy proving my point! He's been like this for an hour now.


Awesome mike! Kind of makes me not want your fire male if he's going to drown his food while he eats it.

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_Mike41793_ (08-03-2013)

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## Mike41793

> Awesome mike! Kind of makes me not want your fire male if he's going to drown his food while he eats it.


I was fully expecting a mess when i got home from work but the rat was gone. That scumbag let it soak for a few hours before eating it! 

Thanks for the suggestions guys. What size pvc pipe would i buy? and does anyone have a link to the plastic cups that i'd have to buy off of amazon or something? I'm curious about them now lol. Probably wouldn't glue them down but the idea of them being virtually untipable sounds good to me lol

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## wwmjkd

> I was fully expecting a mess when i got home from work but the rat was gone. That scumbag let it soak for a few hours before eating it! 
> 
> Thanks for the suggestions guys. What size pvc pipe would i buy? and does anyone have a link to the plastic cups that i'd have to buy off of amazon or something? I'm curious about them now lol. Probably wouldn't glue them down but the idea of them being virtually untipable sounds good to me lol


I use The Snake Keeper for the deli cups. I believe I use the 12oz. size. just make sure you're not inadvertently buying the 'punched' deli cups. day ruiner right there. 

you can buy 4'' PVC couplers at any hardware store. I change water bowls twice a week, but I only replace the deli cups about every third or fourth time. there are a few threads on the subject floating around.

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_cory9oh4_ (08-03-2013)

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## cory9oh4

> I was fully expecting a mess when i got home from work but the rat was gone. That scumbag let it soak for a few hours before eating it! Thanks for the suggestions guys. What size pvc pipe would i buy? and does anyone have a link to the plastic cups that i'd have to buy off of amazon or something? I'm curious about them now lol. Probably wouldn't glue them down but the idea of them being virtually untipable sounds good to me lol


Home depot has the 4" couplings for $2.00 http://www.homedepot.com/p/NIBCO-4-i...0#.Uf261JLrw1w

Superior enterprises has the deli cups that fit http://www.superiorshippingsupplies....s/portion-cups
I forget what portion is the exact fit, but im sure someone will chime in and let ya know!

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## Mike41793

What's "the snake keeper"  :Confused:

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## wwmjkd

> What's "the snake keeper"


the snake keeper aka TSK. http://www.tsksupply.com/.

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_cory9oh4_ (08-04-2013),_Mike41793_ (08-04-2013)

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## Diamond Serpents

> I don't have an answer for you mike because the only Bp I have that makes a mess with his water is the cinnamon I got from you.
> 
> Sent from my Droid RAZR M using Tapatalk 2





> It's all your fault, Mike. You have defective water-tipping snakes.


To funny, thanks for the laugh.  :ROFL:

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_Anya_ (08-04-2013)

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## Shadera

The 16 ounce unpunched cups are the ones that fit 4" couplers.
http://www.tsksupply.com/pro-kal-16-oz-not-punched/

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_Mike41793_ (08-04-2013)

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## Kodieh

My olympic bowl tippers quit when I put the bowl between the wall and the warm hide.

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## joebad976

> I think the bowl tipping could be because they're hungry. I'm gunna up everyones feeding schedule and see if that fixes it. 
> 
> I still wanna know if anyone doesn't use bowls though lol....


Turn the heat down they are too hot, has nothing to do with hunger. Yes, I use bowls. I see mine drink all the time especially when I give them fresh water.

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## Mike41793

> My olympic bowl tippers quit when I put the bowl between the wall and the warm hide.


That'd keep my tubs too humid

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## Mike41793

> Turn the heat down they are too hot, has nothing to do with hunger. Yes, I use bowls. I see mine drink all the time especially when I give them fresh water.


I keep my hot sides at 87-88

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## joebad976

> I keep my hot sides at 87-88


Drop them to 85 for a couple of weeks see if that helps any, it won't physically hurt them. Mine are not in an air conditioned room and I have them on ambient temps during the summer months.

I have the same problem some love to soak or tip their bowl. I attribute it to the heat since during the cooler months I don't have problems with tipping or soaking. 

Do you have plenty of holes in your tubs for ventilation? Making some more holes in the tubs could help as well.

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## Mike41793

I wanna try upping the feeding schedule first bc the room they're in IS air conditioned. Its not all of them, probably about half.

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## DooLittle

Sorry for the crummy pic, my flash didnt come on.    Gave everyone fresh water, then caught my bee getting a drink.  I unno, mine drink.

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_AlexisFitzy_ (12-08-2013)

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## Jonas@Balls2TheWall

Mostly we use the freedom breeder tubs with a water bowl built in, no tipping. An easy fix would be to get the PVC couplings and cut them to where they are only about an inch or two from the top of the "roof". This way there is no room for tipping and the snake can only fit enough to have a drink. 

As for not seeing the snake drink water.... Unless you spend 24/7 watching your snakes, the observation doesn't provide a reliable estimation of water consumption. Better to be safe than sorry. 

However, it would be cool to conduct an experiment to see the amount of water consumed by a ball python. Maybe with a long term video? Even then there will be a significant difference I bet, depending on humidity, temp, age, individual snake, etc....

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## Simple Man

I've never had a tipped over waterbowl with 60+/- snakes. I think you need larger ceramic bowls properly sized to the snakes  :Smile: 

Regards,

B

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_alykoz_ (08-06-2013)

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## Mike41793

I hit up the new dollar tree that opened and got 5 glass bowls, just like the ones someone posted. I got heart shaped ones instead of star ones though because i'm sensitive and in touch with my feelings and figured they'd be easier to clean than the star ones.  :Smile:  

All my plastic crocks are gunna get replaced and i'm not gunna fill them as high. Also, upping the feeding schedule like i said. We'll see if that works.  :Good Job:

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## Mike41793

Haha lookit my hypo girl. Shes pissed now.

"What's this sorcery, a new bowl???" 


"MUST TRY AND FLIP IT!"


This was within 5minutes of me changing this on her. I know they aren't supposed to be that smart, but i swear some of them KNOW when i mess with them like this lol.

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_AlexisFitzy_ (12-08-2013),_Anya_ (08-05-2013),_Coleslaw007_ (08-06-2013),_Exotic Ectotherms_ (08-06-2013),_joebad976_ (08-05-2013),_Pyrate81_ (08-05-2013),_satomi325_ (08-14-2013)

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## Pyrate81

haha love it!

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## Mike41793

> haha love it!


I don't! She was one of my chief bowl tippers. I'm gunna enjoy teasing her when shes all uncomfortable being pregnant. She isn't getting offered an epidural either, plenty of pitocin though. She doesn't even know the storm thats coming her way!  :Very Happy:

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## Pyrate81

I was commenting on the frustration they may/will go through if they can't tip the bowls while you sit back and laugh at them attempting to do so.  Not that they will succeed in tipping these new bowls.    :Very Happy:

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## M&NSnakeDen

> I just came home from work to this. 
> Allllll part of the fun. I can't imagine how frustrating it would be if I had my babes on any sort of mulchy substrate lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



ANNNND this is her right now. I think she's been reading this thread!




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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_AlexisFitzy_ (12-08-2013),_Mike41793_ (08-05-2013)

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## Coleslaw007

I kinda missed this thread, but I definitely see my snakes drink fairly often with perfect humidity.

These are the ones I buy at Dollar Tree, they're great. Haven't had anyone manage to tip one. You can order them and pick up in store, I've never ordered a case personally, just bought individually from the store
http://www.dollartree.com/Sturdy-Sto...2654/index.pro

These make the PERFECT water dishes for hatchlings in 6qt tubs. I buy them at Walmart. http://www.freshpreservingstore.com/...2/shop/383234/

Sent from microwave via Tapatalk ll

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*bcr229* (08-06-2013)

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## 4theSNAKElady

I just saw this thread too. And i have a few stubborn bowl tippers. Theyre all males too. Tried different bowls, and they still seem to soak their tub  :Mad: 

sent from my incubator

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## MrLang

My snakes drink all the time. Ceramic bowls don't get tipped though if they drag the paper towel into them the water wicks out or if they dive around in them it gets displaced and spills. 

I see that nobody advocated not using water bowls which is good. Food, access to drinkable water, protection from the elements... as far as I'm concerned these things are not negotiable when you hold any animal captive.

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## Mike41793

In your opinion they aren't negotiable. I think it is. I KNOW i've seen someone post that balls get most of their fluids from the prey they eat, which would make water bowls in their enclosures all the time unnecessary.  They just haven't seen this thread i guess. We think we know everything about keeping them, but there's still plenty to learn  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## norwegn113

just snapped this pic a few minutes ago! Feeding night was last night and for the next day or two all my snakes will be using their water dishes. It happens everytime like clock work!

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## Mike41793

Well i see those new bowls worked well..... For about 5minutes.....

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_AlexisFitzy_ (12-08-2013)

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## norwegn113

> Well i see those new bowls worked well..... For about 5minutes.....


 im no expert but im gonna go out on a limb and maybe theres something to this or maybe its nothing BUT watching this thread I have noticed that most of the bowl flippers are in bins with a bowl and a hide or two nothing else. while those who have their snakes in enclosures with clutter and branches and other objects dont have as big of a problem! I have 13 snakes and not one flipped water dish ever! I wonder if its a security thing or maybe boredom ( if thats possible?) Or maybe its just an evil plan to take over the world?  :Smile:  lol

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## bcr229

I have 15 BP's in various rack/tub systems and none of them flip their bowls.  The worst they do is go #1 or #2 in them, and a couple climb in for a soak when they're entering a shed cycle.

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## Pyrate81

Mike-  Maybe try leaving a water bowl out of an enclosure for a week or two?  Place the water bowl in the enclosure once a week when you are cleaning or after feeding?  Do this with 1-2 snakes and see how it works? Find out if they pound water when you only offer water like this?  Might be something to experiement with as it seems no one who doesn't use bowls has responded. 

Another thought- perhaps a shorter, longer water dish of some kind which would go along the length of the tub could work?  We all use round, what about a rectangular or trianglular bowl for a corner or lengthwise in the tub.  Someone did suggest those big triangle/corner bowls you can get at petsmart but I'm thinking more of a rectangular crock.  

ex: say you have a 41qt tub, use a 3-6qt tub as a water dish going along the length(even the front width) of the tub.  

I hope you get what I'm trying to explain here.  Let me know if this sounds foggy to you.

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## Mike41793

Im getting a huge order of rats on thursday so they'll be here by next week and then i'm just gunna start offering every 4-5days instead of every 7-10. 

I seriously think its out of hunger or boredom because my hypo is a pretty friendly snake. I'm not even sure if she flipped the bowl or just tipped it to spill some water or what. I only filled it like 1/4 of the way full.

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## norwegn113

Ha! Just caught another one while I was walking by! .... Like I said, for the next two days, like clock work! lol

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_AlexisFitzy_ (12-08-2013),Poseidon (08-08-2013)

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## Poseidon

> Im getting a huge order of rats on thursday so they'll be here by next week and then i'm just gunna start offering every 4-5days instead of every 7-10. 
> 
> I seriously think its out of hunger or boredom because my hypo is a pretty friendly snake. I'm not even sure if she flipped the bowl or just tipped it to spill some water or what. I only filled it like 1/4 of the way full.


How often do you handle your snakes?

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## DestinyLynette

Thankfully, none of mine are bowl-tippers. Hoping it stays that way! My big girl has the jumbo ceramic dish from Reptile Basics, and the little ones have small crock bowls- theirs aren't big enough to totally soak it, but I don't think that's necessary. I mostly use my bowls for humidity, but I see them drink fairly often. My bee does it a lot, I'll try to take a snap of him. My nephew caught him in the act once and he thought it was the coolest thing  :Embarassed: 

If your bowls are heavy, maybe try oddly shaped bowls, or what someone on here suggested about siliconing it down?

Now if only we could figure out how to prevent poop-sailing...

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## Mike41793

> How often do you handle your snakes?


Not very often. Everyone gets held a few times a week for cleaning but other than that i don't bother them much.

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## wwmjkd

> Ha! Just caught another one while I was walking by! .... Like I said, for the next two days, like clock work! lol


you have some very nice enclosures. that lighting makes all the difference.




> In your opinion they aren't negotiable. I think it is. I KNOW i've seen someone post that balls get most of their fluids from the prey they eat, which would make water bowls in their enclosures all the time unnecessary.  They just haven't seen this thread i guess. We think we know everything about keeping them, but there's still plenty to learn


Mike, I've seen this as well in a few places, including this forum, a number of times.  unfortunately, I can't recall exactly where or when, and I certainly don't remember whether it was based on any kind of study or just a statement someone made without anything to back it up other than their snakes simply not dying due to kidney failure.  

I will say that it makes some sense intuitively, at least for royals.  they don't require water daily, rats/mice do contain plenty of hydration, especially if you're defrosting them in warm water, and obviously a female snake in Africa won't leave her eggs to go for a drink if she gets thirsty.  it probably doesn't pose a serious health risk as an experiment if you're feeding smaller meals every few days and keep to the schedule.  however, any concerns I have boil down to the captive keeping vs. wild animal issue.  an animal in the wild without immediate, 24/7 access to water is simply a different situation from a captive snake relying only on its next meal from its keeper.  there's no way of telling whether the amount of moisture in rodents that would suffice in the wild might be tantamount to deprivation in captivity.  you have different humidity parameters, you use newspaper instead of African soil, instead of rain you mist as you see necessary, you're feeding frozen rodents that might be more desiccated due to the freezing process, etc.  as with any other husbandry issue, we're only able to approximate the conditions that they require to survive.  obviously the guidelines are meant to give everyone a baseline for best practices, and I wouldn't presume to tell someone with your experience not to attempt it.  hell I'd be interested to see your results, but I also don't think I'd do it myself.

finally, not to beat a dead horse, but try a PVC coupler too.  I don't know why exactly, maybe it's because they can slide around, but they work.  go to home depot, buy one 4'' coupler, and put in in your worst snake's tub.  I'll mail you a deli cup so you don't have to eat a full sleeve of them if it doesn't work out.  I would be surprised if you continue to have problems.  I had plenty of dumped bowls before I switched over, and the only one to flood her tub in a year and a half was a cranky and gravid female who just wanted to be a destructive ass that day.

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## Poseidon

> Not very often. Everyone gets held a few times a week for cleaning but other than that i don't bother them much.


Maybe messing with two or three a bunch to see if that changes their water bowl flipping behavior?

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## bcr229

> I kinda missed this thread, but I definitely see my snakes drink fairly often with perfect humidity.
> 
> These are the ones I buy at Dollar Tree, they're great. Haven't had anyone manage to tip one. You can order them and pick up in store, I've never ordered a case personally, just bought individually from the store
> http://www.dollartree.com/Sturdy-Sto...2654/index.pro


We had a Dollar Tree open up nearby last year so I decided to stop in and check out the pet water bowls since having extras around is never a bad thing.  I saw the ones in your link but wasn't too impressed as several on the shelf had cracks.

I considered these round black plastic bowls - http://www.dollartree.com/Heavy-Duty...?zipCode=60436 - but they smelled weird, almost like a chemical/rubber smell so I wonder if they offgas a bit?

I did pick up some of the large size melamine bowls - http://www.dollartree.com/household/...3610/index.pro - as they seemed pretty durable and are lightweight.  Also the base is wider than the top, which should make them harder to tip over.  They don't hold a ton of water, but since I check everyone twice daily and top off water as needed that shouldn't be an issue.

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## satomi325

> I considered these round black plastic bowls - http://www.dollartree.com/Heavy-Duty...?zipCode=60436 - but they smelled weird, almost like a chemical/rubber smell so I wonder i.


I use these ones. Mine never had a weird chemical odor. :Confused: 
Never had a smell at all really.

They are great for sub adults and younger. They are much too light for the adults and get tipped often.


Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

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## NYHC4LIFE8899

My ghost rarely seems to drink,but always drinks after a big meal,always..on occasion when he comes out at night to explore,I'll see him drink water,even just do a quick full body swim through it.

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## TurkeyPython

I give my ball a large shallow water dish (exo-terra? I think) no problems at all. I feed him out of His tank though and the dish is kinda heavy and ,because its shallow, usually spills a bit when it is taken out so...

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## AllieKin

This probably wouldn't work for your snakes, but I use Ramekins, similar to these: 

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Serveware/15819193

They are cheap and somewhat heavy. Perfect for my snakes. 

However, I do have an idea for you - not sure if it would work. I give most of my snakes a (somewhat small) PVC pipe that they love to squeeze themselves into. Not only is it adorable behavior that I get to watch, but I think they spend a lot of time arranging and rearranging themselves inside it (or just sitting contentedly inside the tube). It is an easy way to give your snakes something they like to do, in case the tipping behavior is boredom. Just an idea! :)

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## M&NSnakeDen

> This probably wouldn't work for your snakes, but I use Ramekins, similar to these: 
> 
> http://www.walmart.com/ip/Serveware/15819193
> 
> They are cheap and somewhat heavy. Perfect for my snakes. 
> 
> However, I do have an idea for you - not sure if it would work. I give most of my snakes a (somewhat small) PVC pipe that they love to squeeze themselves into. Not only is it adorable behavior that I get to watch, but I think they spend a lot of time arranging and rearranging themselves inside it (or just sitting contentedly inside the tube). It is an easy way to give your snakes something they like to do, in case the tipping behavior is boredom. Just an idea!


I use those exact Ramekins too. No tipping since getting them in summer! Love it. 

Sent from my hot spot

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## Archimedes

My big girl has one of those big exo terra naturalistic bowls, so no tipping there. The little one is using a Pyrex bowl, since she is too small to tip as of yet.

Sent from my water bowl using Tapatalk

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## Darkbird

I have quiet a few tippers myself, and it seems as if a generous portion of the ones who don't tip drag the papertowel into the bowl. What I've found is that any container must have straight sides or should have side expanding outward from the top so they are wider at the base. And the wider and shallower the better. I also quit filling more than about half full.

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## bcr229

> What I've found is that any container must have straight sides or should have side expanding outward from the top so they are wider at the base. And the wider and shallower the better. I also quit filling more than about half full.


Target has plastic dog bowls for about $3 that are a good bit wider at the top than the base.  The way they're designed you can also cut a hole in the side so it does double-duty as a hide.  I've got BP's up to 1200 grams that stuff themselves under these bowls, and without spilling a drop of water.

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## MrLang

Sometimes when I'm cleaning I pull the water bowls first and clean the snakes, then I clean the rats, and by the time I get back to the snakes and the bowls are clean there is no chance I'm putting my hand in there. They smell the rats from cleaning and all go into feeding mode.


When I go back to put the bowls in a few days later, it is EXTREMELY common for me to see 80% or more of the snakes go directly to drink from their bowls for a while. This happens every time. I have a picture on my phone of every single snake in a rack with their head tipped into the bowl drinking.


The area of Africa that they live is NOT a desert. They definitely need water available.

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## jason79

I can tell you from experience that Ball Pythons do need water.  I have a friend that was getting in to breeding BP's and he had about 10 of them.  After about a year he stopped taking much care of them. He still fed them regularly but every time I went over there all the water bowls were empty some of them for a month or more.  Sometimes the snakes were visibly dehydrated sometimes not.  A couple of them ended up dyeing from it.  I always ended up cleaning and filling them and they would go right for the water within minutes of me filling the bowls.    I know that they can go quite awhile without water but they do need to drink even when they are eating regularly.   He has since gotten rid of all his pets and I have told him never to get anymore.

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## CanadianBalls

> Well, I'm certainly no expert, but here goes...
> I don't know about the tipping thing, but how about taking the water bowl out before feeding? That way at least you won't have a wasted rat.


lol so true!

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## Kodieh

The only thing I could think of is to like hot glue the bowl in place but that would make cleaning harder and I move my bowl closer to the heat for shedding. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

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## The Flying Henry

I'd like to think any captive animal would have constant access to fresh water! Mine like to drink. They really do take after their mami!  :Good Job:

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## LadyByrd

We use a separate container for feeding, so we don't have the issue with either of our bps putting their prey in the water.  We have ceramic water dishes that they can't tip, but they do get in to go "swim", so we just make sure that there isn't enough water in the dish to overflow when they play.

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