# Ball Pythons > BP Morphs & Genetics > Is This A Morph? / What Morph Is This? >  Spider or stinger bee?

## SnowShredder

Her parents are unknown. She weighs 450g. Very light colored, almost like a golden tan, with olive hints. Her pattern is a dark chocolate brown

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## interloc

I would say she ain't no normal spider. I'm thinking fire or vanilla spider.

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## collrak

Her pattern definitely looks more Stinger than Spider. In terms of colors, Stingers are variable, but i would look for a richer and brighter gold to be absolutely sure. Overall, i think she is in the running to be a possible Stinger.

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## collrak

> I would say she ain't no normal spider. I'm thinking fire or vanilla spider.


She's probably not a fire spider because they don't have pure white sides. Their sides are more light tan and the striping tends to fade into the sides.

I'm not familiar with Vanilla Spiders, but it could be another possibility.

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## SnowShredder

Hmm when she gets up to size and age I'll breed her and see what pops out. I'm crossing my fingers for a stinger, but either way I think she's awesome! For $150 I'd say extremely awesome

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## iCandiBallPythons

From the pics it looks like a spider with a funky pattern

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## SnowShredder

> From the pics it looks like a spider with a funky pattern


That's what I assumed also, that her pattern was just very reduced. But the more I look at her and look at pictures (tons and tons of pictures) of stingers, the more I feel that she isn't exactly a normal spider. Her color is nowhere near a brown, it's more golden than anything. And also that her pattern isn't black, it's hard to capture in a picture but it's a dark chocolate brown. I know colors vary a lot, and I'm probably just a proud momma seeing more than what's really there, but I can still hope haha

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## iCandiBallPythons

Spiders can vary from light to dark or gold to brown, high white sides or low whit sides, and busy patterns to hardly any pattern at all, she is beautiful none the less but I would put money on it that she is a single gene spidey. She does not have the correct identifiers for enchi or vanilla genes



> That's what I assumed also, that her pattern was just very reduced. But the more I look at her and look at pictures (tons and tons of pictures) of stingers, the more I feel that she isn't exactly a normal spider. Her color is nowhere near a brown, it's more golden than anything. And also that her pattern isn't black, it's hard to capture in a picture but it's a dark chocolate brown. I know colors vary a lot, and I'm probably just a proud momma seeing more than what's really there, but I can still hope haha

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h00blah (09-30-2013)

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## SnowShredder

Going to bump this =)

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## Royal Hijinx

From the reduction in head stamp, pattern and color, could be Fire Spider or Stinger?

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## SnowShredder

> From the reduction in head stamp, pattern and color, could be Fire Spider or Stinger?


That's what I like to hear!

The breeder I got her from "didn't have the patience to wait for her to get to breeding weight" but he was "excited about her possible genetics". In my eyes she's definitely a keeper whether she is a normal spider or something more.

I'm not very good with ball morphs, but I'm thinking she would be more stinger rather than fire spider because of her white sides. They're low white,but still there. Fire spiders I've seen don't have that "spider white side" look

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## Royal Hijinx

My Fire Spider has pretty much no white on her sides, but that may not apply to all of them.  


Fire Spider


Stinger Bee @400ish grams



Does he have hatchling pics of her?  Stingers tend to have some orange as a hatchling and my Fire Spider did not.

Stinger as a hatchling:


Baby Fire Spider:



Hope the comparisons help?

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## SnowShredder

No pics from her as a hatchling. In fact, the breeder isn't responding to me at all. But I can say she looks almost EXACTLY like your stinger. She is in shed right now, I'll post more pictures after. She definitely has those white sides. Anyone please correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think fire spiders have those, at least not in the sense that spiders do

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## SnowShredder

Updated pictures of her about 10 minutes ago.

640g weighed today (well technically yesterday now0




she was not very happy...been very cranky lately

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## SnowShredder

Anyone with more insight?

I'm very excited about this girl whether or not she is 1 or 2 gene. Her pattern is stunning

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## Royal Hijinx

I would still say POSSIBLE Stinger, will have to breed her to find out.

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## SnowShredder

I will definitely be breeding her. She is gaining weight quickly and came in at 740g empty a few days ago. And I don't power feed. I'm wondering what to breed her with that will give good, definite results on whether or not she has enchi in her. The only males I have that will be breeding size by november are my mojave, a pied, possibly a fire, and possibly a cinnamon. Everyone depending on their weight gain

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## SnowShredder

814g today. I swear she is on normal feeding just growing like a hog!



I love her jade eyes

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## Royal Hijinx

> I will definitely be breeding her. She is gaining weight quickly and came in at 740g empty a few days ago. And I don't power feed. I'm wondering what to breed her with that will give good, definite results on whether or not she has enchi in her. The only males I have that will be breeding size by november are my mojave, a pied, possibly a fire, and possibly a cinnamon. Everyone depending on their weight gain


Mojo or Pied are prolly your best bet.  A Stinger het Pied would nto be a bad snake to own...

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## SnowShredder

> Mojo or Pied are prolly your best bet.  A Stinger het Pied would nto be a bad snake to own...


I think our biggest problem is my gf is NOT into hets. Say we breed our pied x spider (poss stinger), all resulting offspring would be het pied...but no visual pieds. That's her thing, and I bought this pied for her so ultimately it's her decision. It's lookin like our pied will only sire pied females though, and her other thought is a morph het pied. BUT if this female proves to be a stinger then I think I can convince her!


I am really crossing my fingers for this one!! I'll pair her this november with our fire (which the gf doesn't agree with but IMO it is the best choice, and they are my snakes), and a second choice will be our mojave

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## Royal Hijinx

Mojo will give you a more definitive answer if you do not hit a straight Enchi or another Stinger, since Mochis are very distinct.

When trying to prove out ANY gene, it need to be done in a manner that will make it the most recognizable, at least for the first pairing.  Get the sousing out of genetics out of the way.

You need to remind her that a Stinger het Pied (if it proves Stinger) is IMO possibly the most powerful het Pied you can have.  The effects of the two genes on Pied are polar opposites.

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_ARamos8_ (09-12-2013),_SnowShredder_ (06-02-2013)

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## SnowShredder

Here is an update on her weight. 

On 3/28/13 she was 450g
On 8/27/13 she is 982g

Gaining about 100g a month

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_Pyrate81_ (09-05-2013)

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## jporter617

looks like my male stinger, hes got the same reduced pattern and (devil horns on the face)   looks good

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## Neal

I would say definitely not just a spider. If I'm wrong then that's the oddest looking spider I've seen.

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## SnowShredder

> looks like my male stinger, hes got the same reduced pattern and (devil horns on the face)   looks good



I am hopeful still! I've seen so many stingers that look like her, but also quite a few who don't

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## SnowShredder

> I would say definitely not just a spider. If I'm wrong then that's the oddest looking spider I've seen.



I really hope there is a second gene in there, and when she is finally able to be bred I will post constant updates. If anything I bet she'll make some crazy looking spiders and mojave spiders (will be bred to my mojave)

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## jporter617

breed her to the enchi, mojo your more likely to get mojave spiders and its hard to base it from that, if theres enchi in it, a super enchi will pop out an theres no denying that one. they look way better then normal enchis.  Goodluck with her!

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## SnowShredder

> breed her to the enchi, mojo your more likely to get mojave spiders and its hard to base it from that, if theres enchi in it, a super enchi will pop out an theres no denying that one. they look way better then normal enchis.  Goodluck with her!



This year will be my first year breeding and I feel like putting an enchi in there wouldn't be as clear to me as my mojo. And if I don't get any supers then I didn't really prove anything. But if I get an enchi out of spider x mojo then i KNOW. A super enchi would be amazing though.

And if she was to reproduce her reduced pattern I would have a hard time discerning whether or not I had stingers or reduced spiders

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## MasonC2K

So I literally held a stinger bee in my hands yesterday to pretty much looked just like the OP's picture. So I am going with that.

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## STjepkes

> This year will be my first year breeding and I feel like putting an enchi in there wouldn't be as clear to me as my mojo. And if I don't get any supers then I didn't really prove anything. But if I get an enchi out of spider x mojo then i KNOW. A super enchi would be amazing though.
> 
> And if she was to reproduce her reduced pattern I would have a hard time discerning whether or not I had stingers or reduced spiders


Yes, you're exactly right, OP. And that is one pretty girl you've got yourself there!

- - - Updated - - -

Oh wow, just noticed you're in Marysville! I used to work at the outlets there. I'm just down in the South Everett/Lynnwood Area.  :Very Happy:

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## SnowShredder

> Yes, you're exactly right, OP. And that is one pretty girl you've got yourself there!
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> Oh wow, just noticed you're in Marysville! I used to work at the outlets there. I'm just down in the South Everett/Lynnwood Area.


That's funny, I work just a couple miles from the outlets, for the tribe.

And thank you, here is a pic of the mojo in question. He's definitely ready to go, just waiting on my girl

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_STjepkes_ (10-01-2013)

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## SnowShredder

> So I literally held a stinger bee in my hands yesterday to pretty much looked just like the OP's picture. So I am going with that.


The only thing that is making me think she may not have enchi in her is examples of stinger bees like Royal Hijinxs' (they posted a picture further up). She doesn't have that two toned, pixelated look that I've seen with a bunch of stingers and of course enchis. But I've also seen enough stingers that look just like her to give me hope.

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## SnowShredder

A little update. 
A local breeder came over this weekend (she was bringing my new vanilla female to me) and I showed her my collection. 
I showed her this spider and said I've been wondering if there was another gene in her. Her immediate response was 100% normal spider no doubt. Put a little damper on me BUT I still feel this girl is something extra special.
She had a little growth spurt, blew right past the 1000g stand still. Pic was taken at night time so she looks pretty dull and dark

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## h00blah

I definitely do not see enchi in your spider, but perhaps at the very least she has a reduced pattern gene in her  :Good Job: . She doesn't look like a typical stingerbee to me.

Here are a few shots of mine.




Here's how he looks as he's just starting the shed cycle. He gets very dark!


I don't mean to damper your spirits any further. I wouldn't let the lack of enchi disappoint you in the least  :Good Job: ! That mojo boy is SMOKIN, and he's going to make some hot babies with your reduced spider! Can't wait to see those babies  :Bowdown: !!

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_bad-one_ (11-28-2013)

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## SnowShredder

> I definitely do not see enchi in your spider, but perhaps at the very least she has a reduced pattern gene in her . She doesn't look like a typical stingerbee to me.
> 
> Here are a few shots of mine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's how he looks as he's just starting the shed cycle. He gets very dark!
> 
> ...



Yeah when I see stingers like yours I'm like NO WAY does she have enchi in her. But then I've seen just as many photos of stingers that look more like her than anything and that's the little hope I've been holding onto. My opinion over the last couple months has switched to about 90% she's a normal reduced spider. I wish I could post the photos of the stingers that look like her but I don't have any of the owners permission.
Thanks =) I love my little mojo and he is the biggest sweetheart out of all my balls

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## STjepkes

Yeah, it's looking reduced spider to me as well, but she's still awesome. In a way it's better. Would you rather have a questionable quality 2 gene animal, or a single gene animal that's such high quality it makes you question it? 

My pastel looks better than some pastel yellow bellies (crazy flames, orange-ish blushing, wonked out pattern), but I'm fairly certain she is not YB. She is a pretty great pastel though. And that will go further in the long run than a run of the mill 2 gene, in my opinion.

Oh and that mojo has amazing contrast, really love him!  :Smile:

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_SnowShredder_ (10-01-2013)

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## SnowShredder

> Yeah, it's looking reduced spider to me as well, but she's still awesome. In a way it's better. Would you rather have a questionable quality 2 gene animal, or a single gene animal that's such high quality it makes you question it? 
> 
> My pastel looks better than some pastel yellow bellies (crazy flames, orange-ish blushing, wonked out pattern), but I'm fairly certain she is not YB. She is a pretty great pastel though. And that will go further in the long run than a run of the mill 2 gene, in my opinion.
> 
> Oh and that mojo has amazing contrast, really love him!



Very true and an awesome way of looking at it! Thank you

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## STjepkes

Of course, it's my pleasure  :Smile:

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## SnowShredder

Took these pictures last night. One with flash and one without. Her actual color is right in the middle between the two.
I was going to breed her this season but once she hit 1200g she decided to suddenly become a picky eater and has stuck at that weight for a couple months now.
Anyone that doesn't want to read the thread, I am now in the mind set that she is a "normal" spider. I'm hoping she is just a single gene, so that I can produce some top notch "normal" babies from her.
I've recently had several people say she looks like a leopard spider, but personally don't see it. Only the broken pattern and color reminds me of one. But the pattern doesn't scream it, and I've noticed (dunno if this is true for all or most) but they don't seem to have white sides.


Oh and let me reiterate that her pattern is a chocolate brown, and is in no way black

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## dgring

The head-stamp is definately that of a fire, probably a spider with a rlly cool pattern

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jgras (12-01-2013),_SnowShredder_ (11-28-2013)

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