# Miscellaneous Herp Interests > Venomous Animals >  Hot owners in LA\MS

## Jnksnakes

Are there any Hot owners in LA or MS ? Or just any large collectors of reptiles? I would like to see either a larger breeding facility or a venomous collection in person. I would love to work with your animals sometime and learn how to handle hots. If anyone in this area would be up for a visitor Please let me know!

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## Skyrivers

> Are there any Hot owners in LA or MS ? Or just any large collectors of reptiles? I would like to see either a larger breeding facility or a venomous collection in person. I would love to work with your animals sometime and learn how to handle hots. If anyone in this area would be up for a visitor Please let me know!


Most people are extremely cautious when it comes to inviting people over to work with their collection hot or not.

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_Ronniex2_ (09-19-2018)

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## Jnksnakes

> Most people are extremely cautious when it comes to inviting people over to work with their collection hot or not.


As they should be. Still doesn't mean I can't try. The only other way I'll ever have experience getting the snake is buying it and hoping I don't die. Lmfao. I'd rather meet up and get real advice and experience first.

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## Skyrivers

I am on your side here. I just know that before I purchased Rainbow I asked several breeders about getting experience with retics before getting one and hit a few roadblocks. One of the roadblocks was earning their trust enough to let me come see their place. Breeders often get what they call "groupies" that are just wanting the "large snake experience". Try and never get discouraged. Thankfully I got Rainbow and have worked with her without the "apprenticeship" so to speak that I wanted. 





> As they should be. Still doesn't mean I can't try. The only other way I'll ever have experience getting the snake is buying it and hoping I don't die. Lmfao. I'd rather meet up and get real advice and experience first.
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk

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## Jnksnakes

> I am on your side here. I just know that before I purchased Rainbow I asked several breeders about getting experience with retics before getting one and hit a few roadblocks. One of the roadblocks was earning their trust enough to let me come see their place. Breeders often get what they call "groupies" that are just wanting the "large snake experience". Try and never get discouraged. Thankfully I got Rainbow and have worked with her without the "apprenticeship" so to speak that I wanted.


I did the same. No one around me spoke up or owned big snakes. I bought a burmese at 4 ft and hes around 8 now, i have a baby burm, a 5 ft retic and a baby retic. Just learning as I go with them. My next buy will be a Gaboon Viper. I'd really rather learn more about the venomous trade before just jumping into one of those. Need to learn the proper hook techniques, how they approach feeding, opening enclosure safely etc. Things I would REALLY like to learn before owning one. 

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## Jnksnakes

> I did the same. No one around me spoke up or owned big snakes. I bought a burmese at 4 ft and hes around 8 now, i have a baby burm, a 5 ft retic and a baby retic. Just learning as I go with them. My next buy will be a Gaboon Viper. I'd really rather learn more about the venomous trade before just jumping into one of those. Need to learn the proper hook techniques, how they approach feeding, opening enclosure safely etc. Things I would REALLY like to learn before owning one. 
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


I feel like I came off as defensive in my response based off your first line of text. Know that I was not being defensive or bashing your statement or anything.  

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## Skyrivers

> I did the same. No one around me spoke up or owned big snakes. I bought a burmese at 4 ft and hes around 8 now, i have a baby burm, a 5 ft retic and a baby retic. Just learning as I go with them. My next buy will be a Gaboon Viper. I'd really rather learn more about the venomous trade before just jumping into one of those. Need to learn the proper hook techniques, how they approach feeding, opening enclosure safely etc. Things I would REALLY like to learn before owning one. 
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


You can never let your guard down with HOTS ever. I saw a video once about a guy who was very experienced with King Cobras. He let his guard down for a split second when putting it back in the tub he kept it in and BAM he was bit in his stomach area. His friends filmed the entire thing including the car ride to the hospital. He described everything he went through. Was not pleasant at all. Even with proper treatment he almost died and the necrosis of tissue left a huge hole that took months to heal. I agree that before diving into them that is good to get experience. 




> I feel like I came off as defensive in my response based off your first line of text. Know that I was not being defensive or bashing your statement or anything.  
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


Na,.... I know where you are coming from.

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_Ronniex2_ (09-19-2018)

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## Jnksnakes

> You can never let your guard down with HOTS ever. I saw a video once about a guy who was very experienced with King Cobras. He let his guard down for a split second when putting it back in the tub he kept it in and BAM he was bit in his stomach area. His friends filmed the entire thing including the car ride to the hospital. He described everything he went through. Was not pleasant at all. Even with proper treatment he almost died and the necrosis of tissue left a huge hole that took months to heal. I agree that before diving into them that is good to get experience. 
> 
> 
> 
> Na,.... I know where you are coming from.


Yeah I see these crazy ass people free-handling king cobras and vipers. I don't have the balls or the money for hospital bill. I just want a gaboon viper as a display. I want a King Cobra too but I don't know where I would get snakes to feed it every week lol.

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## reptileexperts

user Neal is close to this, but as stated many folks will not allow the risk of someone coming to their collection. Personally, no one outside of my wife, my mentor, and a couple select friends are even able to be in the room when a cage is open. The risk of an accident is far too great.

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*Bogertophis* (09-19-2018),PitOnTheProwl (09-22-2018)

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## Phillydubs

People also worry about theft or plotting theft. 

Unfortunately there are a lot of scumbags out there who wont think twice to swipe an animal.

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*Bogertophis* (09-19-2018)

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## Bogertophis

> ...My next buy will be a Gaboon Viper. I'd really rather learn more about the venomous trade before just jumping into one of those. Need to learn the proper hook techniques, how they approach feeding, opening enclosure safely etc. Things I would REALLY like to learn before owning one....


It's really NOT a matter that you should take so lightly...your life depends on you learning first, not just taking the plunge.  We don't need to read about you in the 
paper.  And you should get your affairs in order too, by the way...no one ever thinks THEY will end up in the hospital or worse.  Gaboons are not a good one to start
with as they aren't native species so in the event you get bit, hospitals aren't equipped to be as helpful as you'd expect.  They also get large...

I guess you had no luck contacting Neal (?) but I'm not surprised: as already mentioned, responsible keepers have to be wary as there are "all types" with the same line.

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## Godzilla78

Yeah, Gaboon viper seems a crazy first choice.  Extremely agressive, massive fangs and VERY hot venom.  Maybe start with something less aggressive,that likes to be shy and hide away like a copperhead type viper?

I don't know, I have no experience handling hots, and I never will!  lol

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*Bogertophis* (09-19-2018)

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## Bogertophis

> Yeah, Gaboon viper seems a crazy first choice.  Extremely agressive, massive fangs and VERY hot venom.  Maybe start with something less aggressive,that likes to be shy and hide away like a copperhead type viper?
> 
> I don't know, I have no experience handling hots, and I never will!  lol


Gaboon vipers are actually ambush predators that have killed owners who underestimated them because they sit still for so long...but they can sure move when they 
want to.  And their venom, delivered via long fangs, is nothing to fool with.  A cottonmouth or copperhead would be a better start, but even then, WHY do you want 
venomous at all?  What's the point?  (Why do so many feel they have something to "prove"?)

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_MissterDog_ (09-19-2018)

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## Ax01

IMO i think Jnksnakes is moving way too fast in this hobby. he needs to slow down and learn how to provide better care for his current animals before he takes the deep dive into hots (or breeding): https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...ion-Photo-Spam (ask a Mod/Admin for access to QT if u can't see the thread)

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*Bogertophis* (09-19-2018),_Godzilla78_ (09-19-2018),_Kira_ (09-19-2018),_MissterDog_ (09-19-2018),Tessellate (09-21-2018),_tttaylorrr_ (09-19-2018)

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## Phillydubs

I also think anyone who cant afford a hospital visit better not get a snake that can easily send you to the hospital....

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*bcr229* (09-21-2018),*Bogertophis* (09-19-2018),_Godzilla78_ (09-19-2018),_tttaylorrr_ (09-19-2018)

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## Godzilla78

> I also think anyone who cant afford a hospital visit better not get a snake that can easily send you to the hospital....


Well said.

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_Phillydubs_ (09-19-2018)

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## Alter-Echo

Gaboons are really placid for a viper... until they're not, they move so fast when they decide to strike that there really is no warning.

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_MissterDog_ (09-19-2018)

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## Bogertophis

I've said this before but maybe it bears repeating?  I worked with hots (mostly rattlesnakes) for 20 SAFE years...but it wasn't BECAUSE they were venomous-

it was IN SPITE of the fact.  When I was first offered one that needed re-homed, I honestly wasn't interested...but then I did some research & took it on, mostly

because they were local native species that wandered into people's yards and usually got killed for their "mistake".  I wanted to help them survive and for my 

neighbors NOT to get injured trying to move or kill them.  I ended up rescuing & relocating rattlesnakes, & doing local educational programs ONLY with those that 

weren't releasable.  And I ended up very fond of rattlesnakes, I'll admit...but I don't recommend them as "pets"...there's no good reason to have a "pet" that you 

cannot interact with, that you won't easily find ANY vet to help you should they have health problems (you have to be prepared to do it yourself!) & you must be 

a very responsible* person to ensure that nothing goes wrong- no escapes ever, that you aren't getting bit & making the news as yet another reason for the public 

to pass more restrictive laws that affects ALL of us keeping ANY kind of snakes...& you darn well better not be using up the local zoo's supply of emergency anti-

venin for your dumb mistakes!  Add to that the cost of medical care if-when you get bit- (how much medical & life insurance do you have?) and be prepared to not 

have any homeowner's insurance if-when your current company finds out what you're doing.  Or, if you are renting...be prepared to be evicted!  That's even without 

taking into account local laws you may be violating.  (city, state, county, federal, Fish & Game)   *By "responsible" I mean one that NEVER works with these snakes 

when tired, distracted (w/ friends etc etc), feeling ill, or under ANY influence (drugs or alcohol) in ANY amount.  There is a reason that statistics show most venomous 

bites happen to young males in our society....they are usually showing off.


I'm sorry to say this but the very fact that the OP wants to start off with a Gaboon Viper strongly suggests they are lacking the maturity that all responsible hot 

keepers will want to see before helping the OP achieve their mission.  Starting with a Gaboon Viper is the sign of a person that's in a hurry, one that's over-con-

fident in their ability...and that can ONLY be another black eye for responsible snake keepers.

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_AbsoluteApril_ (09-21-2018),_Ax01_ (09-20-2018),_MissterDog_ (09-19-2018),_Phillydubs_ (09-19-2018),Tessellate (09-20-2018)

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## Bogertophis

Jnksnakes, I'd imagine that the friends you hang with now will be impressed if you get a "hot"...and I've little doubt that somewhere there is an unscrupulous 
source who will sell you one.  But please just ask yourself this:  if (when) you get bit & lose a hand, let's say, are these friends still going to think you're cool?
And will they still be around to help you get thru life with only one hand?  And will this help you date the ones you're attracted to?  or will it turn them off?  
You don't have to answer here...just think about it, okay?

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## MissterDog

Bogertophis is making great and careful points to really think about. Accidents happen. You never know when things can go wrong and when they do, it can all go south real fast. If you ever get bit you have to think how it will impact your family as well. It will be a very terrifying day when your wife and kids see you being rushed to the hospital.

Just really, really slow down and think about this carefully. Don't be too ambitious too fast.

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*Bogertophis* (09-19-2018)

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## Jnksnakes

You guys truly only have Negative comments don't you? I have no friends to PROVE something to. I want a Gaboon in my collection, and once I have sufficient experience with Hots I will get one. You guys want certain ball pythons, boas, burms, retics, whatever the case may be in your collections so you get them. Same situation here. I know how to handle snakes and not get bit. The only experience I am looking for here are the differences with hots. The cage opening safe ways, the safe ways to move them around to soak\clean cages etc. etc. If you would like to be so negative, Please go somewhere else. I also did not ask for any opinions on owning venomous animals. So i'm not sure why everyone is posting their opinions. Thanks. Stay on topic or leave please.

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## Alter-Echo

With that kinda attitude, most experienced hot keepers won't touch you with a 10 ft snake hook, but hey, best of luck finding one that will teach you the right way of doing things...  for your sake I hope you do....

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*Bogertophis* (09-19-2018),_jmcrook_ (09-19-2018),_Kira_ (09-20-2018),_MissterDog_ (09-19-2018),_redshepherd_ (09-19-2018),Tessellate (09-20-2018),_tttaylorrr_ (09-19-2018)

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## Ax01

> You guys truly only have Negative comments don't you? I have no friends to PROVE something to. I want a Gaboon in my collection, and once I have sufficient experience with Hots I will get one. You guys want certain ball pythons, boas, burms, retics, whatever the case may be in your collections so you get them. Same situation here. I know how to handle snakes and not get bit. The only experience I am looking for here are the differences with hots. The cage opening safe ways, the safe ways to move them around to soak\clean cages etc. etc. If you would like to be so negative, Please go somewhere else. I also did not ask for any opinions on owning venomous animals. So i'm not sure why everyone is posting their opinions. Thanks. Stay on topic or leave please.


i think that u are finding out that a forum is alot different from social media. we go alot deeper than posting pix for likes and cool points. we have actual discussion, share our experiences and challenges, help each other out and will hold each other accountable. i hope that u are reading every comment and opinion, in this thread and your other one(s). i don't think anyone is being negative w/ their opinion when they say something like it's not a good idea when an inexperienced keeper decides to get a hot and could hurt themselves or the community. it's the truth and it needs to be said and sorry (not sorry) if it hurts.

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*Bogertophis* (09-20-2018),_Kira_ (09-20-2018),_MissterDog_ (09-20-2018),_redshepherd_ (09-20-2018),_tttaylorrr_ (09-20-2018)

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## tttaylorrr

OP i see ur online rn:

despite the comments and general backlash, we do WANT you to succeed and be successful, and for the RIGHT reasons.

we also know how much goes into this hobby, and if you think you're somehow different from every other fresh-faced "breeder" with money that comes on here posting and getting defensive when they're called out for bad practices, you're sorely mistaken. you are but another statistic on this forum with decades of others like you, until you prove otherwise.

remember: WE ARE the community you're trying to establish yourself in. our input is INVALUABLE to you, and i really wish you'd listen.

you know you're more than capable. you know you're better than what you've shown. you know you have much more to learn. please just ask and let us help.

prove us wrong. show us what you're capable of. we're here to help you, i promise. but you gotta drop the ego and listen. please. you're talking hots, so this is your LIFE.

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_Ax01_ (09-20-2018),*Bogertophis* (09-20-2018),_MissterDog_ (09-20-2018),_Phillydubs_ (09-20-2018)

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## Jnksnakes

I have Asked. I am listening. Your answers are literally "nope you're an idiot for wanting one" instead of providing any VALUABLE information. So please get off of this topic unless you want to talk about the topic. Which is: HOT OWNERS IN LA\MS AREA WILLING TO TEACH.

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## skydnay

This entire thread is a disappointing read. I get people are thinking they're helping by suggesting other snakes to start out with, but telling someone they shouldn't get the snake they want just seems an unfair thing to do on a reptile dedicated forum. OP posted in the appropriate forum looking for a mentor in venomous so that they CAN get a gaboon without just jumping into venomous willy nilly. And yet, here is a whole three pages of OP being hounded for that. 

I can't speak to whatever is in the thread in QT, but it's not relevant to the topic of this thread, as far as I'm concerned. 


Now, as far as actually answering the question for Jnksnakes, I'm from Baton Rouge! Unfortunately, I don't know offhand of anyone with a large venomous collection in the LA/MS area, but I do know that communities in Louisiana like to keep up with Facebook groups, so looking there might be your best bet, seeing as this thread hasn't gotten you much help. There's a couple groups I can find that are more like classifieds, but I'd bet there are people in there that can point you in the right direction. Good luck!!

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## Bogertophis

> This entire thread is a disappointing read. I get people are thinking they're helping by suggesting other snakes to start out with, but telling someone they shouldn't get the snake they want just seems an unfair thing to do on a reptile dedicated forum. OP posted in the appropriate forum looking for a mentor in venomous so that they CAN get a gaboon without just jumping into venomous willy nilly. And yet, here is a whole three pages of OP being hounded for that....


I suggested he contact Neal when he first asked for hot contacts in his area, & well before this thread.  Apparently he got no response.  I think the justifiable 
concern was his statement "My next buy will be a Gaboon Viper." as opposed to getting a less dangerous animal to keep as practice.  Since many people of all 
ages from around the world do read this forum, I personally think it would make us all look like idiots to just encourage the OP without any precautionary input
...& he should have realized that as well.   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):   I privately wished him luck, but again what message should we be sending to all the impressionable "wanna-be's" 
who might be reading this?

The part I quoted above is from his post #5, btw.  You can only learn so much from visits to someones "house o' hots", it really helps to live with one for a 
while...but NOT starting off with a Gaboon!   Over-confident people have died doing just that.  And YES it's "our business" because stuff like that makes 
the news & hurts us ALL when more restrictive laws are passed AND when more people keep a closed mind about all snakes & just kill every one they see.

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_Alter-Echo_ (09-21-2018),_Ax01_ (09-21-2018),_Godzilla78_ (09-21-2018),_jmcrook_ (09-21-2018),_Kira_ (09-21-2018),_MissterDog_ (09-21-2018)

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## Ax01

> This entire thread is a disappointing read. I get people are thinking they're helping by suggesting other snakes to start out with, but telling someone they shouldn't get the snake they want just seems an unfair thing to do on a reptile dedicated forum. OP posted in the appropriate forum looking for a mentor in venomous so that they CAN get a gaboon without just jumping into venomous willy nilly. And yet, here is a whole three pages of OP being hounded for that. 
> 
> I can't speak to whatever is in the thread in QT, but it's not relevant to the topic of this thread, as far as I'm concerned.


glad u could find some silver lining and play devil's advocate but u can't ignore Jnk's other threads, posts, etc. on BP.net and elsewhere. the thing is u cannot rely on someone's rep or credibility from one thread, that's why u gotta look at the whole esp. if someone wants to come into your home or facility for mentorship esp. w/ Hots. it's basic screening and i would not vouch for him. also it seems kinda like he's learning as he goes (in regards to euthanizing, feeding, husbandry, breeding, etc.) and he's going real fast on a steep learning curve. u can't do that w/ a Hot and i hope 3 pages has had some impact on him when he says "My next buy will be a Gaboon Viper." what's wrong w/ slowing down and fixing the issues u currently have and improving your upkeep and name? Jnksnakes is not the first person to receive tough love and won't be the last.

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_Alter-Echo_ (09-21-2018),*Bogertophis* (09-21-2018),_Godzilla78_ (09-21-2018),_Kira_ (09-21-2018),_MissterDog_ (09-21-2018),_tttaylorrr_ (09-21-2018)

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## Bogertophis

Also, I've never known anyone with a "good reason" to keep hots (like making it a career, zoo-keeping or research, etc) who was in a hurry...that's just 
a HUGE RED FLAG.  Call me "judgmental" if you like....but you don't get older by being stupid.   :Wink:

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_Alter-Echo_ (09-21-2018),_Hmoore1984_ (09-21-2018),_Kira_ (09-21-2018),_MissterDog_ (09-21-2018)

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## skydnay

While I can appreciate the concern that want to own a gaboon would cause, I'll paste Louisiana's laws on owning venomous:




> _Louisiana Administrative Code Title 76 Part XV_
> J.	Restricted Amphibians and Reptiles
> K.	Venomous and Large Constricting Snakes
> 1.	The importation and/or private possession of constrictor snakes in excess of 12 feet, including but not limited to the following species: Apodora Papuana (Papuan Python), Liasis Olivacea, (Olive Python), Morelia Spilota (Carpet or Diamond Python), Morelia Kinghorni (Scrub Python), Morelia Amethystina (Amethystine Python), Python Natalensis (Southern African Python), Python Sebae (African Rock Python), Python Molurus (Indian Or Burmese Python), Python Reticulatus (Reticulate Python), any species of the genus Boa (Boa Constrictors), and any species of the genus Eunectes (Anacondas), and venomous snakes, (hereinafter restricted snakes) obtained in any manner, shall be by permit issued by the Department of Wildlife and Fisheries except for animals kept by animal sanctuaries, zoos, aquariums, wildlife research centers, scientific organizations, and medical research facilities as defined in the Animal Welfare Act as found in the United States Code Title 7, Chapter 54, 2132(e).
> Venomous Snakesany species under current taxonomic standing recognized to belong to the Families Viperidae (Pitvipers and Vipers), Elapidae (Cobras and Mambas), Hydrophiidae (Sea Snakes), Atractaspididae (Mole Vipers), as well as the genera Dispholidus, Thelotornis, and Rhabdophis of the Family Colubridae only.
> 
> 
> i.	Any person requesting a permit to allow importation and/or private possession of venomous snakes shall demonstrate no less than one year of substantial, practical experience (to consist of no less than 500 hours) in the care, feeding, handling, and/or husbandry of the species for which the permit is sought, or other species within the same zoological family, which are substantially similar in size, characteristics, care, and nutritional requirements to the species for which the permit is sought.



This is why OP needs a mentor. It's required in Louisiana. I live in Texas and there is no such law as this, not even in the city where I live. I can go to Walmart with $20 and get the permit to own venomous and then go pick up a gaboon without any experience if I wanted. At least OP is trying to go about this the right way. I also never read anything about OP planning on picking up a gaboon in the next few days or anything, so if we could all not jump the gun on assuming we know what OP is planning, that would probably help out a lot. 

Additionally, I'd like to point out that there has only been a single link to an outside thread within this one that I don't have immediate access, and I don't know about y'all, but the first thing I'm going to do when looking at a thread is not hunt down every other thread that a person has created. If someone else wants to, that's all fine and good, and linking them here may be helpful, but generally on forums, the place to hound someone on other topics is not on every single new thread they create. From what I do know of OP's other threads, none of them are that incriminating to me. OP joined recently and has been asking for a lot of advice, and it seems that some people may take that to mean OP is new to snake keeping? Whatever it is, there seems to be a lot of assumptions being made, and a lot of unnecessary harshness happening.

And yes, people may be giving OP private encouragement or help, but what is public is a lot of backlash on a decision that OP is free to make regardless. It's saddening to see a community that prides itself on being supportive and helpful doing the very opposite. 

As far as screening goes, that's fine! Let him show himself online. I don't believe that anyone in this thread is going to be the hots owner mentoring him, though, or is even local to his area, so there's little being said that is helpful.

500 hours is not a hurry, by the way.

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## Ax01

yeah, i'm not gonna be one of his enablers at this point of his early career.

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_MissterDog_ (09-21-2018)

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## MissterDog

It's admirable you're giving OP the benefit of the doubt, but the quarantine thread will give you a lot of missing context. If Jnksnakes didn't engage and DEFEND irresponsible practics that are damaging to the hobby's reputation, then the community would feel less cautious and critical.

The community encourages and supports members when it is appropriate. But if a red flag is seen then it will be pointed out. In the end op is free to do what he wants, but the community can still tell him to slow down. 500 hours is still not as long as it sounds.

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_Ax01_ (09-21-2018),*Bogertophis* (09-21-2018),_Kira_ (09-21-2018),_tttaylorrr_ (09-21-2018)

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## skydnay

> It's admirable you're giving OP the benefit of the doubt, but the quarantine thread will give you a lot of missing context. If Jnksnakes didn't engage and DEFEND irresponsible practics that are damaging to the hobby's reputation, then the community would feel less cautious and critical.
> 
> The community encourages and supports members when it is appropriate. But if a red flag is seen then it will be pointed out. In the end op is free to do what he wants, but the community can still tell him to slow down. 500 hours is still not as long as it sounds.


This is fair. Though, at the same time, it's hard to judge a person on a thread you can't see. So there is that point. 

I completely understand pointing out red flags, but I do not feel as though that is what's being done here. Instead, it reads as a thread where a lot of people are telling someone not to get a snake they want to get because of other's opinions, which is unfair. I don't see people here tell him to slow down, but to halt completely.

As my final point on the subject, no, 500 hours is not as much as it sounds. But assuming a person has other stuff to do and can only delegate 4 hours a day to this, then that would be around 4 straight months. But LA law still requires that the time period be a full YEAR with no less that 500 hours of actively working with venomous. So it'd be a year either way before OP could even get his gaboon.

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## kristan

I don't think any of us has a "good reason" for keeping snakes. The answer is because we want to. My cousin once asked me why I had two dogs, "why wasn't one enough for you?"...well, because I wanted 2, but my response was "why did you have 3 kids, why wasn't one enough for you?"
To the OP, I think you should work towards goals, but in a safe and responsible way. The issue here is that I wanted snakes, but the worst that's going to happen is I'm going to take a bite that I can put a band aid on; the worst that will happen if you take a bite is death. Decisions with bigger consequences deserve to be taken more seriously.

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## Stewart_Reptiles

Honestly based on this thread and your post history here and on social medial, I could not imagine anyone wanting YOU near their collection or be associated with you  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

This hobby needs positive role models which means, educated, respectful, compassionate, and responsible and your posts do not reflect this at all.

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## Bogertophis

> I don't think any of us has a "good reason" for keeping snakes. The answer is because we want to. My cousin once asked me why I had two dogs, "why wasn't one enough for you?"...well, because I wanted 2, but my response was "why did you have 3 kids, why wasn't one enough for you?"
> To the OP, I think you should work towards goals, but in a safe and responsible way. The issue here is that I wanted snakes, but the worst that's going to happen is I'm going to take a bite that I can put a band aid on; the worst that will happen if you take a bite is death. Decisions with bigger consequences deserve to be taken more seriously.


I disagree...the most COMMON answer might be "because we want to" but when it comes to venomous snakes, some GOOD reasons include furthering scientific & 
medical research, the preservation of the species, and public education.  "Because I want to" have 2 dogs...well, they're SOCIAL animals that enjoy each other's 
company as well as ours, & get more healthful exercise with a buddy; "because I want to" have more kids...at some point disregards the reality of our earth-home 
& the limits of space & natural resources necessary for a GOOD life, not merely an existence.  "Because I want to" have more snakes?  we all live in a society that 
isn't 100% behind keeping snakes in the first place, so we ALL have to be mindful of how our conduct in this area is going to impact others...many who'd rather 
make laws against us, while most keep snakes responsibly & want to continue doing so.  As you said kristan, "Decisions with bigger consequences deserve to be 
taken more seriously."  I agree with that & I think that's what the feedback here is all about.

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## redshepherd

> This is fair. Though, at the same time, it's hard to judge a person on a thread you can't see. So there is that point. 
> 
> I completely understand pointing out red flags, but I do not feel as though that is what's being done here. Instead, it reads as a thread where a lot of people are telling someone not to get a snake they want to get because of other's opinions, which is unfair. I don't see people here tell him to slow down, but to halt completely.
> 
> As my final point on the subject, no, 500 hours is not as much as it sounds. But assuming a person has other stuff to do and can only delegate 4 hours a day to this, then that would be around 4 straight months. But LA law still requires that the time period be a full YEAR with no less that 500 hours of actively working with venomous. So it'd be a year either way before OP could even get his gaboon.


Skydnay, the OP abuses leopard geckos by breaking their legs and leaving them in a bin to suffer for possibly hours, laughs about it on social media when someone points out that this is animal abuse, and continues to defend his practice of abusing the feeder animals under his care, despite others on the forum pointing out how it is a bad reflection on our community. That's the thread that's in quarantine that you should look at.

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_55fingers_ (09-29-2018),*Bogertophis* (09-21-2018),_Ditto_ (09-21-2018),_Kira_ (09-21-2018),_MissterDog_ (09-21-2018),_tttaylorrr_ (09-21-2018)

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## Neal

Yea, I'm from Louisiana and I do keep hots, however as Cody and others have stated there's only a select few people that I'll let in my room when my snakes come out. I'm currently only keeping my cobra as I'm shifting my focus to cobras as I enjoy working with them more.

LA Laws have changed also, it's 1000 hours now, instead of 500. Also getting a permit for venomous has gotten increasingly hard, because they want you to work with somebody who actually has a venomous permit to sign off. This was a smart move in my book and something I recommended a year or two back.

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*Bogertophis* (02-25-2019),_MissterDog_ (02-25-2019)

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## Jnksnakes

> Yea, I'm from Louisiana and I do keep hots, however as Cody and others have stated there's only a select few people that I'll let in my room when my snakes come out. I'm currently only keeping my cobra as I'm shifting my focus to cobras as I enjoy working with them more.
> 
> LA Laws have changed also, it's 1000 hours now, instead of 500. Also getting a permit for venomous has gotten increasingly hard, because they want you to work with somebody who actually has a venomous permit to sign off. This was a smart move in my book and something I recommended a year or two back.


We spoke on Facebook a couple months back 

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## Neal

> We spoke on Facebook a couple months back 
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


Ah okay. Yea I get a lot of people messaging me about it, not sure who is who as I'm bad with names.

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Jnksnakes (02-25-2019)

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## Sauzo

I'm kind of late to the party but if you really want HOTs based on the unique colors and patterns they have ( i really like eyelash vipers), then go for it. As for finding a mentor, good luck with that for reasons already mentioned. My advice would be to watch and read as much as you can about the species you want. Then make sure you have the caging set up along with all the equipment you need. Also i would order a bite protocol folder from Joe Pittman at the Florida Snakebite Institute and also call your local hospital and see if they have antivenom for said species or you acquire it.

I have just started messing with HOTs and started with a couple Gilas which i have wanted since i was a kid. I researched for over a year before i actually bite the bullet. They are quite different than venomous snakes but still demand respect. 

Also check your city/county/state laws to make sure they are legal. Unless you have your own home, I doubt you will find many apartments that will allow you to keep HOTs.

And remember, it only takes one 'oops' moment to possibly stamp your time card off this earth.

I personally will probably never own HOT snakes although I am pretty tempted for a beaded lizard or two lol.

Oh and i forgot, find a vet who will deal with your HOTs when you need to get check ups done on them. Like i said, I took over a year to actually bite the bullet for my Gilas but i made sure my vet as well as a couple other vets in my area could/would see my Gilas for check ups when needed.

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## Sauzo

Oh and i forgot to add, if it's true you break legs on leopard geckos and abuse animals like that while getting joy, you dont need HOTs or any animals. You need psychiatric help and pray karma doesnt come to bite you in the bum. Cruelty to any living thing be it even a bug is something i frown on big time. If you need to kill something, make it swift. Heck, I've actually broke myself before on taking my animals to the vet when needed which always seems to fall on a time when i am in a pinch for cash lol. My advice is always keep a nest egg for their emergencies or keep a credit card or two set aside for them as reptile vets are expensive as heck. I couldnt imagine making them sit in what i perceived as pain or discomfort so i ate ramen while i made sure they got treatment.

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*Bogertophis* (03-01-2019),_jmcrook_ (03-01-2019),_Kira_ (03-01-2019),_MissterDog_ (03-01-2019)

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## Jnksnakes

> Oh and i forgot to add, if it's true you break legs on leopard geckos and abuse animals like that while getting joy, you dont need HOTs or any animals. You need psychiatric help and pray karma doesnt come to bite you in the bum. Cruelty to any living thing be it even a bug is something i frown on big time. If you need to kill something, make it swift. Heck, I've actually broke myself before on taking my animals to the vet when needed which always seems to fall on a time when i am in a pinch for cash lol. My advice is always keep a nest egg for their emergencies or keep a credit card or two set aside for them as reptile vets are expensive as heck. I couldnt imagine making them sit in what i perceived as pain or discomfort so i ate ramen while i made sure they got treatment.


Are we really bringing this dumb stuff up again? This is why I haven't been on here in months. I caught house gheckos outside and fed them to a mangrove snake. Get over yourselves.

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## Jnksnakes

> Are we really bringing this dumb stuff up again? This is why I haven't been on here in months. I caught house gheckos outside and fed them to a mangrove snake. Get over yourselves.
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


I'll go see what psychiatrist will cure me for feeding my snakes. Thanks.

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## MissterDog

> Are we really bringing this dumb stuff up again? This is why I haven't been on here in months. I caught house gheckos outside and fed them to a mangrove snake. Get over yourselves.
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


The fact that you're still brushing it off as simply feeding your snakes is troubling, despite what numerous members have said to you before, including highly respected and more experienced breeders who have been in the hobby for years. It's not about you feeding geckos to your snake, it's HOW you chose to do so with no accountability or willingness to admit maybe you chose the wrong way to go about things and how that reflects on the hobby. (Not to mention catching random, wild animals with who knows what disease and parasites to feed to your snake is incredibly irresponsible, especially when you had said snake for sale on your Morph Market at the time.)

Why not admit you made a bad move and have made steps to correct yourself instead of defending said "dumb stuff?" Or would you really rather reply to everyone with unprofessional sass?

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*Bogertophis* (03-01-2019),_Kira_ (03-01-2019),_redshepherd_ (03-01-2019),_Sauzo_ (03-02-2019)

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## Danger noodles

Just found this and read the whole thing.... wow!! 

I cant imagine how people can hurt any animals! Im not very religious, but I thank my food,and snake food every time for there life. It may sound weird but I do care. And yes I still do even when feeding f/t lol.

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*Bogertophis* (03-01-2019)

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