# Site General > General Herp >  Ball python possibly dying

## SidReptiles

Okay last night i found my ball python which had got away and was loose since the 1st of January, I was looking for him last night the i found him in a crack in the cement in my garage next to a spider I picked him and and noticed he had red spots on his belly which was probably from the cold. He started spazzing out, turning over on his back twisting all around not acting normal like he usally would remember he was gone for 2 weeks. i personally think he's dying i put him in his cage gave him water and the temp is around 89-93 he's warmed up. now i know for sure he hasn't ate in over 3 weeks. is there any way that he can survive this

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## Annarose15

Pictures would help. And I hope you mean his hot spot is 89-93, not the entire cage. The ambient temp should still be around 82F.

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## adamsky27

I think if a BP can survive a spin cycle one may also be able to survive that. Let him warm back up and see what happens.

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_Skittles1101_ (01-15-2012)

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## Foschi Exotic Serpents

I certainly hope you allowed him to warm up slowly before putting him into such a warm enclosure.. That can actually cause more problems if he does survive. 

I hope he makes it for you. It's always sad to hear about escapes and bad things happening to them.

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## Xotik

Ambient shouldn't be that high. Plus the radical change in temperature might hurt him as well. Don't futz with him, but pictures definitely would help.

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## mandalorian

Do you know how he got outside?  How cold does it get where you live?  My yearling lesser was gone for about two weeks in October of last year and I found him by the entryway between my kitchen and garage.  I let him settle in for a couple of days and monitored his behavior.  When I started to thaw out some rats for my other bpz, I noticed he was sniffing around his rack and he pounded 2 rat pups asap.  Keep us posted on his condition.  BTW, I live in southern Cali so our winters are pretty mild.

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## SidReptiles

> Do you know how he got outside?  How cold does it get where you live?  My yearling lesser was gone for about two weeks in October of last year and I found him by the entryway between my kitchen and garage.  I let him settle in for a couple of days and monitored his behavior.  When I started to thaw out some rats for my other bpz, I noticed he was sniffing around his rack and he pounded 2 rat pups asap.  Keep us posted on his condition.  BTW, I live in southern Cali so our winters are pretty mild.


*I live in los angeles california. BTW the python was around 3 or 4 months old got him from craigslist from a breeder "Dragon Mecca"*

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## SidReptiles

And no thats the basking spot which is around 89-93 I will post pics.

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## mandalorian

> *I live in los angeles california. BTW the python was around 3 or 4 months old got him from craigslist from a breeder "Dragon Mecca"*


Ok, so you're in my neck of the woods.  The last couple weeks actually has been pretty warm here.  Just do as the other bpers have suggested and keep an eye on him.

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## SidReptiles

*So I went in the garage this morning to find him DEAD turned over on his back solid as wood *

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## mandalorian

> *So I went in the garage this morning to find him DEAD turned over on his back solid as wood *


sorry to hear that.  let us know if you decide to get another one so we can give you some tips on preventing him/her from escaping...

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## Annarose15

> So I went in the garage this morning to find him DEAD turned over on his back solid as wood


My sympathies for your loss, but wasn't it in the low 40s last night in Cali? Is your garage climate-controlled?

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## WarriorPrincess90

This may seem silly, but is it possible he could have been bitten by the spider you found him next to? Was it be venomous by any chance? I don't know if spider venom would even effect a snake, but thought I'd ask. 

So sorry for your loss.

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## SidReptiles

> sorry to hear that.  let us know if you decide to get another one so we can give you some tips on preventing him/her from escaping...


Yes I plan to get another one as soon as I find an baby Python.

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## SidReptiles

> My sympathies for your loss, but wasn't it in the low 40s last night in Cali? Is your garage climate-controlled?


I'm not sure of the temp last night, Yeah it is. But his tank was 92 in the basking spot.

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## Missy King

I don't think you should be having snakes if you can't keep it in it's cage, and keep it's cage in the house where it won't freeze to death or burn it's belly or get spider bitten or whatever happened. Sad waste of snake.

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## SpencerShanks

> This may seem silly, but is it possible he could have been bitten by the spider you found him next to? Was it be venomous by any chance? I don't know if spider venom would even effect a snake, but thought I'd ask. 
> 
> So sorry for your loss.


That was my first thought as well. Makes more sense than being too cold and found next to a spider with red spots on its belly.

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## WingedWolfPsion

Sounds more like cold shock syndrome to me.  Ball pythons are very sensitive to cold, and develop neurological symptoms.

If they make it through a couple of weeks after warmup, they're usually ok, but may have some long term impairments.  Sudden death isn't uncommon with cold shock syndrome, though.

http://www.pdfdownload.org/pdf2html/...fCold_BCHS.pdf

The spider was probably incidental.  As for the red spots on the belly--who knows.  A burn, or injury of some kind, perhaps.

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_decensored_ (01-20-2012)

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## The Serpent Merchant

I agree with the others, a ball python shouldn't be kept in a garage unless it is heated. Even if you can provide a hot side with proper temps the ambiant temperature will get too cold. Ball pythons do not smell or make any noise so I see no reason why it couldn't be inside. And if escaping is an issue just get 4 bricks and stick them ontop of the screen lid.

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## SidReptiles

There is no way possible I could keep him in the house I had to persuade my dad to let me get it in the first place. Imagine if he would of got away in the house. In addition it look like an woodlouse spider it ran away once I grabbed the snake.

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## SidReptiles

> I don't think you should be having snakes if you can't keep it in it's cage, and keep it's cage in the house where it won't freeze to death or burn it's belly or get spider bitten or whatever happened. Sad waste of snake.


I don't it would freeze I've kept my bearded dragon in my garage for over 4 months now and haven't had any problems with him.

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## The Serpent Merchant

Bearded dragons actually need to have temperatures as low as 65 at night. 65 degrees would kill a ball python. Especially if you are using a UTH (heat pad that doesn't effect air temperatures) you are going to have problems. Once again if you can't have a snake in the house you shouldn't have one. Please do not kill another snake because you think that you know better than people who successfully keep multiple snakes.

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_decensored_ (01-20-2012),Missy King (01-17-2012),_SquamishSerpents_ (01-18-2012)

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## Foschi Exotic Serpents

> Sounds more like cold shock syndrome to me.  Ball pythons are very sensitive to cold, and develop neurological symptoms.
> 
> If they make it through a couple of weeks after warmup, they're usually ok, but may have some long term impairments.  Sudden death isn't uncommon with cold shock syndrome, though.
> 
> http://www.pdfdownload.org/pdf2html/...fCold_BCHS.pdf
> 
> The spider was probably incidental.  As for the red spots on the belly--who knows.  A burn, or injury of some kind, perhaps.


This is something I try to educate people about too. We have seen it happen more with improper shipping during cold weather but your situation seems to fit as well. 

There is nothing anyone can say or do to prevent you from keeping a snake in your garage so let me just give you some helpful advice instead.. 

The only way you're going to be able to successfully keep one long term in your garage and guarantee it's health is by using some ingenuity and $$. 

You'll need to make or have someone build you a cage out of wood, plastic, or melamine with only the front having a door of thick glass or plexiglas. 

Use flexwatt as your UTH and a ceramic heat emitter as supplemental ambient heat. Flexwatt underneath and the CHE in a fixture on top. You can have a circle cut in top with screen for the lamp fixture. The UTH on a thermostat of course. 

I'd make the entire thing no larger than a 30gal aquarium. Maybe slightly deeper front to back since aquariums are very narrow. 

The trick is the proper heat, on a thermostat (this goes for any reptile no matter what it's kept in or where) in the proper enclosure. You need to make adjustments to ensure the snake can not escape and the temps stay constant during warmer and cooler weather. 

The weather has been crazy lately. Just because the surface the snake is laying on is 92 degrees does not mean the snake is ok. The air around it could be too cold if it's 50 degrees outside. This will make the snake sick. 

I suspect you'll have issues with your dragon in the future too. Yes they can withstand lower night time temps but not as low as it has been getting in many areas over there. I wonder what you're using to keep him warm at night in cases of lower than room temp temperatures. Is your dragon set up with a basking bulb that puts out both UVA and UVB rays? Is the basking spot temp at roughly 110 degrees measured? Do you turn this lamp on every morning and then off every night?

If you answered no to any of these questions then your dragons set up is wrong and he will not do well.

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_decensored_ (01-20-2012),_Evenstar_ (01-18-2012),Missy King (01-17-2012),_Skittles1101_ (01-17-2012),Tereghan (01-18-2012),_The Serpent Merchant_ (01-17-2012)

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## Twist

I'm inclined to agree with the people saying you shouldn't get another snake. Sure I've had a few escapes in my time with snakes but they had nowhere to hide but in my blankets due to me snake escape proofing my room.. If you can't keep the snake inside, don't get one especially if it has to stay in a garage as temps fluctuate dramatically in most garages. We have a finished heated and cooled garage and its cold out there. What were you using to keep it in its enclosure?

Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk

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_The Serpent Merchant_ (01-17-2012)

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## WingedWolfPsion

Ball pythons simply don't have any tolerance for low temperatures, I would never recommend keeping one in a place where the air temperatures get below 70F.
To be honest, I think parents who would allow that are also being very irresponsible.  (Parents need to be responsible for the pets their children own).
If you're over 18, it sounds like it's time to either get your own place, or realize that you aren't presently living in a situation where you can safely keep reptiles.

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## sirchaosofgb

I am so sorry for your loss i know you must be heart broken. My thoughts are with you.

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## enchantress62

I understand the desire to have something you want really badly, but learn from your mistakes, listen to the others.  If you can't provide a proper home then don't get another one until you can.  The best way to show your pet love is to put their needs above your own desires.

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Balls Out Morphs (01-17-2012),_decensored_ (01-20-2012),Tereghan (01-18-2012),_The Serpent Merchant_ (01-17-2012)

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## Balls Out Morphs

> i understand the desire to have something you want really badly, but learn from your mistakes, listen to the others.  If you can't provide a proper home then don't get another one until you can.  The best way to show your pet love is to put their needs above your own desires.


x 1,000,001...

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## SidReptiles

> This is something I try to educate people about too. We have seen it happen more with improper shipping during cold weather but your situation seems to fit as well. 
> 
> There is nothing anyone can say or do to prevent you from keeping a snake in your garage so let me just give you some helpful advice instead.. 
> 
> The only way you're going to be able to successfully keep one long term in your garage and guarantee it's health is by using some ingenuity and $$. 
> 
> You'll need to make or have someone build you a cage out of wood, plastic, or melamine with only the front having a door of thick glass or plexiglas. 
> 
> Use flexwatt as your UTH and a ceramic heat emitter as supplemental ambient heat. Flexwatt underneath and the CHE in a fixture on top. You can have a circle cut in top with screen for the lamp fixture. The UTH on a thermostat of course. 
> ...


No the bearded dragon tank is setup with two heat lamps one 150w and the other is 75w those stay on 24hrs. I have the uv ceramic light which I keep on at night and cut the 75w heat lamp off.

How much do you think it will cost to get everything for the tank for the new ball python setup, not including any lighting equipment or anything?

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## SidReptiles

> Ball pythons simply don't have any tolerance for low temperatures, I would never recommend keeping one in a place where the air temperatures get below 70F.
> To be honest, I think parents who would allow that are also being very irresponsible.  (Parents need to be responsible for the pets their children own).
> If you're over 18, it sounds like it's time to either get your own place, or realize that you aren't presently living in a situation where you can safely keep reptiles.


My parents didn't really think of it that way, they never even looked into me getting a ball python. They don't know anything about keeping them in appropriate temperatures.

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## The Serpent Merchant

well it depends if you intend on keeping the ball python in the garage or not, it will require a lot more to do so in a garage.

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## Homegrownscales

I personally think you should figure out your situation there before getting anything else. 
It sounds like you have some fixing to do on your beardy enclosure.  I would fix that first bc they are presently living. As well as concentrate on bringing the animals
In the house. Let's face it Garages are not the right place for exotics. You already had one escape that lead to the animals death. Luckily you found him but what would have happened if he had happened to make it outside or into a neighbors house? We've already got a ton of bad press, laws trying to be passed etc. do we need anymore? I'm not trying to be a jerk. But if you have beardies in the garage that have to have lamps on 24/7 (they need a day/night cycle) so they don't get too cold. I firmly beleive their welfare should come first at this point. Spend the money on cold proofing their enclosure and make sure they are getting the very very very best before you look into customizing a ball enclosure and getting a new ball. Both won't be cheap and at the present the beardies are living and sadly the ball isn't. Priorities! 


Check out what's new on my website... www.Homegrownscales.com

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_Anya_ (01-28-2012),_The Serpent Merchant_ (01-17-2012)

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## ball python 22

I have had escapes but of you cant keep it in the house you really shouldnt get another one.

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## satomi325

I'm sorry for your loss.
But at least you're coming for help and asking for advice. Better late than never, right? 

It's an owners responsibility to take care of their animals. They can't care for themselves or ask for help.
If you can't care for them properly now, then it may be in your best interest and the animal's to wait until you can. I'm not going to say you shouldn't own another animal ever, but you may not be in the best position to own one currently. I've wanted to own snakes since I was 6 years old. I waited until I was out of my parents' house and in college before I got my first snake. My parents were against owning snakes as well.

Is there anyway you could move your dragon into the house? Your room perhaps? Even a closet would be better than a garage. Perhaps you could convince your parents that they could save energy and money by moving the dragon inside. Less electricity running the two bulbs 24/7 and having to modify your enclosure to suit the garage etc, etc.

Good luck.

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## SquamishSerpents

do cars go in your garage?

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## Foschi Exotic Serpents

> No the bearded dragon tank is setup with two heat lamps one 150w and the other is 75w those stay on 24hrs. I have the uv ceramic light which I keep on at night and cut the 75w heat lamp off.
> 
> How much do you think it will cost to get everything for the tank for the new ball python setup, not including any lighting equipment or anything?


Honestly it would be very cheap to build a decently insulated cage out of wood. Do you have any friends with wood working tools and a bit of experience? You don't have to be a novice to make a decent cage. Maybe less than $100 dollars. 

Flexwatt is cheap when bought by the inch/foot. It's very easy to attach the cord. Just do a google search to see the best prices on the flexwatt and cord. 

For a wood cage, I'd recommend putting a length of flexwatt on the inside (since the heat will not travel up through wood very well) affixed to the back wall, along the entire back. 

This would be no different than a rack with back heat instead of belly heat. The enclosed wood cage would ensure that more heat and humidity is contained. 

You just make sure you paint the entire thing with a non toxic, water proof, oil based paint long before you get your new ball python. Give it plenty of time to soak the wood and dry. Then finish adding your heat and whatever else you want. 

Latches for the door are a few cents each. 

I'd say well under $200 total for a good cage with everything you need.

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## Foschi Exotic Serpents

Here.. Look at these to get some good ideas... 

http://www.customwoodreptilecages.com/gallery.html

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Tereghan (01-18-2012)

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## SidReptiles

> I personally think you should figure out your situation there before getting anything else. 
> It sounds like you have some fixing to do on your beardy enclosure.  I would fix that first bc they are presently living. As well as concentrate on bringing the animals
> In the house. Let's face it Garages are not the right place for exotics. You already had one escape that lead to the animals death. Luckily you found him but what would have happened if he had happened to make it outside or into a neighbors house? We've already got a ton of bad press, laws trying to be passed etc. do we need anymore? I'm not trying to be a jerk. But if you have beardies in the garage that have to have lamps on 24/7 (they need a day/night cycle) so they don't get too cold. I firmly beleive their welfare should come first at this point. Spend the money on cold proofing their enclosure and make sure they are getting the very very very best before you look into customizing a ball enclosure and getting a new ball. Both won't be cheap and at the present the beardies are living and sadly the ball isn't. Priorities! 
> 
> 
> Check out what's new on my website... www.Homegrownscales.com


I totally agree with what you're saying. I'll take your advice before anything else like this happens just focus on the bearded dragon for now.

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_Anya_ (01-28-2012),_The Serpent Merchant_ (01-18-2012)

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## SidReptiles

> Honestly it would be very cheap to build a decently insulated cage out of wood. Do you have any friends with wood working tools and a bit of experience? You don't have to be a novice to make a decent cage. Maybe less than $100 dollars. 
> 
> Flexwatt is cheap when bought by the inch/foot. It's very easy to attach the cord. Just do a google search to see the best prices on the flexwatt and cord. 
> 
> For a wood cage, I'd recommend putting a length of flexwatt on the inside (since the heat will not travel up through wood very well) affixed to the back wall, along the entire back. 
> 
> This would be no different than a rack with back heat instead of belly heat. The enclosed wood cage would ensure that more heat and humidity is contained. 
> 
> You just make sure you paint the entire thing with a non toxic, water proof, oil based paint long before you get your new ball python. Give it plenty of time to soak the wood and dry. Then finish adding your heat and whatever else you want. 
> ...


Yeah my dad actually is an contractor so I'm good on that part I have all of the equipment I need now I just need to get the building supplies.

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## Homegrownscales

Sid I think that's smart and very responsible of you. 


Check out what's new on my website... www.Homegrownscales.com

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## SidReptiles

> do cars go in your garage?


No cars is the garage since my dad is an contractor, all of his tools go in the garage. Not car has been in the garage for over 8 years

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## Clementine_3

> No the bearded dragon tank is setup with two heat lamps one 150w and the other is 75w those stay on 24hrs. I have the uv ceramic light which I keep on at night and cut the 75w heat lamp off.


So there is or is not a UV light (strip or all in one/mercury vapor) for the beardie?  The ceramic would be a heat emitter, then two for just heat?
Maybe I don't see what you are saying but there has to be UV light as well as heat.

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## SidReptiles

> So there is or is not a UV light (strip or all in one/mercury vapor) for the beardie?  The ceramic would be a heat emitter, then two for just heat?
> Maybe I don't see what you are saying but there has to be UV light as well as heat.


There is an UV light in the cage just 1 vapor and then two heat bulbs.

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_Clementine_3_ (01-18-2012)

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## SidReptiles

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater

I don't know if you guys can view the link but this is the last picture I took of my Ball python the day before.

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## The Serpent Merchant

> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater
> 
> I don't know if you guys can view the link but this is the last picture I took of my Ball python the day before.


I could see the picture, unfortunately it doesn't give much insight. He was a good looking snake I'm sorry you lost him.

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## SidReptiles

> I could see the picture, unfortunately it doesn't give much insight. He was a good looking snake I'm sorry you lost him.


I wish i could of showed you the red marks that was on his belly but the camera wouldn't show them.

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## Druzy

Sorry for the lost  :Sad:

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## hurricaNe

> I have had escapes but of you cant keep it in the house you really shouldnt get another one.


My thoughts exactly. 

Poor snake  :Sad:

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## ktint

Hi SidReptiles,
I feel your pain. It is very hard to work between parents and pets, especially if your pet is a  :Snake: . I had lost a few pets in my life because of my parents until I got married and move out. LOL...   Now, my wife love my BP and boa more than me. :Good Job: 

I would recommand that you wait till you are on your own feet for next  :Snake: . Hopefully, may be you can work out with your parents to keep it inside.

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## SidReptiles

> Hi SidReptiles,
> I feel your pain. It is very hard to work between parents and pets, especially if your pet is a . I had lost a few pets in my life because of my parents until I got married and move out. LOL...   Now, my wife love my BP and boa more than me.
> 
> I would recommand that you wait till you are on your own feet for next . Hopefully, may be you can work out with your parents to keep it inside.


Yes it is hard working with parents and reptiles for right now I'm trying to get my beardie in the house for now. So do you think it's a good idea to make an wood cage for the snake to live in even if it's in the garage.

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## DooLittle

I am with some of the others.  Don't think now is the time for a new snake.  Until you can keep it in the house, in a properly secured cage, no more snakes.  It's not fair to the animal, that's part of being a responsible pet owner.  I am sorry for your loss, please just focus on your beardie for now.

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## therunaway

> I don't think you should be having snakes if you can't keep it in it's cage, and keep it's cage in the house where it won't freeze to death or burn it's belly or get spider bitten or whatever happened. Sad waste of snake.


i honestly dont think you should have said tht, some people actually have buildings in which they have their snakes, so yeah.

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## Homegrownscales

While I understand what you were Saying Jason. I see what Missy King is saying as well, and a few other said the exact same thing. Yes, large scale breeders do use facilities that are large warehouses. But.... Those facilities are insulated, climate controlled, and set up for use as breeding facilities. They aren't house garages. Those two situations are compleatly different. I think the op has seen what errors he made and hopefully he will continue to make things as best he can for his remaining pets. 


Check out what's new on my website... www.Homegrownscales.com

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_meowmeowkazoo_ (01-21-2012)

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## xFenrir

IF (and this is a big IF) you are going to build another enclosure for a Ball that you are planning to keep in the garage, since you said your dad is a contractor ask him about good insulation. Tell him if they're dead set on you keeping your pet in the garage then they can at least help you make an enclosure that will keep it warm and healthy. He may not know about the specifics of keeping a snake, but I'm sure he knows how to insulate to keep in heat. Plan it all out, build it and TEST IT to make sure it WORKS before buying another Ball, I would hate to see you get another snake only for it to pass away.

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## WingedWolfPsion

It's true, a properly insulated cage would do the trick, although I still think it poses a big risk to the animal.  If there were a power outage of some kind, the temperatures would quickly fall to lethal levels in the cage, even with insulation.
Obviously any sort of insulated cage design should have a very secure door, with a lock.

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## SidReptiles

> IF (and this is a big IF) you are going to build another enclosure for a Ball that you are planning to keep in the garage, since you said your dad is a contractor ask him about good insulation. Tell him if they're dead set on you keeping your pet in the garage then they can at least help you make an enclosure that will keep it warm and healthy. He may not know about the specifics of keeping a snake, but I'm sure he knows how to insulate to keep in heat. Plan it all out, build it and TEST IT to make sure it WORKS before buying another Ball, I would hate to see you get another snake only for it to pass away.


I talked to my dad and now I can keep it in the house it just has to be in a tub not a tank. the tub doesn't take up too much space.

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## Foschi Exotic Serpents

> I talked to my dad and now I can keep it in the house it just has to be in a tub not a tank. the tub doesn't take up too much space.


Good! Now be sure you get the proper UTH, and a thermostat to control it or the plastic can get too hot. Tubs are much much easier to maintain. The humidity will be right. The temp will be easy to keep right. The ball will be happier and healthier. 

Also!! Get large size binder clips or something similar for the 2 long sides of the tub so it can't push out once it's a bit larger. I recommend getting a sterelite tub with the good snap down latches on the ends and then a couple of these clips.. 




In the largest size.. That way it will never escape and your family will be ok with it.. 

You'll need one of these too.. 


Accurite weather station. Best thermometer to measure your hot/cold sides at the same time, plus the humidity. About $12 at Walmart. 

Tub. I'd say get a 32qt Sterelite with side latches. This way it will work it's entire life if it's a male. Just be sure it  has hide boxes as a baby. 

UTH to fit about 1/3 the bottom. 

Thermostat. 

Accurite probed thermometer. 

2 small plastic hide boxes. One for each side. You can cut an opening in cheap dollar store plastic cereal bowls since they grow out of them so fast as babies. 

Water bowl. 

And your snake should be happy and healthy. Plus you'll have it where you can pay more attention to it instead of in the garage. Just be sure you do everything right. Always latch the lid and never give your family any reason to change their mind.

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_SquamishSerpents_ (01-23-2012)

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