# Site General > General Herp > Herp Broadcast >  More Trouble

## WingedWolfPsion

And they used a picture of a ball python?
http://www.omaha.com/article/20100609/NEWS01/100609654

This is particularly upsetting because it happened locally.

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## Darkice

This guy didn't  live very far from me. Its sad to see someone die because of a pet but he kind of asked for it. He always had the snake around his neck to show it off. First of all its 9 feet long and 25 pounds. Any snake that size should not be around your neck unless there are others close by that can assist if needed. The only person close by was his wife. She couldn't help him.


http://www.nebraska.tv/Global/story.asp?S=12626483

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## WingedWolfPsion

I hope that they stress that this was not an attack, but was an accident, and do not put the snake down.
Well, one can always be hopeful.

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## krinklebearcat

The article says it was a python.. what exactly was it?

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## WingedWolfPsion

It was a boa constrictor.

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## jfreels

such a shame.

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## krinklebearcat

> It was a boa constrictor.


Yeah saw that in another thread right after I posted.  Such a shame.  The media needs to get its facts straight though, jeez.

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## nixer

> And they used a picture of a ball python?
> http://www.omaha.com/article/20100609/NEWS01/100609654
> 
> This is particularly upsetting because it happened locally.


contact the editor

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## RhacHead

> And they used a picture of a ball python?
> http://www.omaha.com/article/20100609/NEWS01/100609654
> 
> This is particularly upsetting because it happened locally.


 Its funny you posted this I was just logging on to bring this to BP.net attention.I was reading this article
http://www.wowt.com/news/headlines/96005609.html
and the comments really aggravated me... :Mad: 
I commented but it hasnt been approved yet but we need to get some educated keepers to post on the comments and show them the error in their ways.

As for them calling it a python on the story and in the news they have corrected it.

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## RhacHead

Just posted a reply in this thread
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...hreadid=121610

I was trying to get people to comment on WWW.WOWT.com because the comments posted there were just Ridiculous.
All I'm saying is after they found the Boa under the South Omaha bridge and now this,Get ready for the fallout because its coming....

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_Jason Bowden_ (06-10-2010)

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## RhacHead

Heres the page if anyone wants to comment
http://www.wowt.com/home/headlines/96005609.html

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## alittleFREE

That's really sad, especially since it seems that he took very good care of it and apparently was fond of the snake (his neighbor saying he handled it all the time). 

Such a shame, and definitely one of those 'it wouldn't happen to me' things (which I'm sure he never expected it to). Guess this just goes to show that you really have to be careful when handling bigger snakes, no matter how well you think you know it.

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_Jason Bowden_ (06-10-2010)

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## Jason Bowden

Ahhh Crap!  I hate that this happened.  I have 6 boas, and love them.  I think they are great pet snakes.

Sympathy and prayers for the victims family!


This will definately fuel the fire against "big" snakes as pets.  IMO

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## mainbutter

the friend failed to remove a 25lb RTB, or provide enough resistance so the snake couldn't do damage?

I know they're extremely strong, but you're still only dealing with 25lbs of muscle.

Maybe the friend didn't know to start at the tail??

Or maybe the snake is another convenient fall guy for a murder. [/conspiracytheory]

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## Jason Bowden

Posted my feelings on anothother thread.
Hope my wife doesn't get wind of this. LOL

As always: Sympathy for the victims family!

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## WingedWolfPsion

The Nebraska Herpetological Society caught wind of this first, and their fast response has had an impact.

http://www.omaha.com/article/20100609/NEWS01/100609654

Thanks, Glenn!

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_Jason Bowden_ (06-10-2010)

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## Beardedragon

> This is a good teaching moment for our kids. LEAVE WILD ANIMALS ALONE! And don't try to have them as pets.* Safe pets are domesticated for a reason - they don't attack and kill you!* The snake was just doing what a snake does.


 I guess they have never heard of a dog attacking its owner...

We really need to find these people and neuter them....

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_CoolioTiffany_ (06-10-2010)

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## CoolioTiffany

Great news..

It never said anything about the snake biting him and wrapping around him.

It says snakes over 8 feet can be hard to handle (this snake is 8-9 feet appearantly? not seeing it from that video.. looks more like 6 feet).  I've held an 8 foot snake with no problem, and I can easily hold my 6-7 foot Dumeril's boa.

Now I wonder what else is gonna be thrown at the reptile community because of this.

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## WingedWolfPsion

Any constrictor over 8 feet in length should not be handled without another knowledgeable person present, to prevent accidents.  This is part of safe handling practices.

I understand the boa there is actually 9 feet.

Obviously you don't put a constrictor around your neck.  It didn't attack him...it tightened up, and cut off his airway, then the snake probably freaked out due to all the activity and just tightened up even further.

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## CoolioTiffany

> Any constrictor over 8 feet in length should not be handled without another knowledgeable person present, to prevent accidents.  This is part of safe handling practices.
> 
> I understand the boa there is actually 9 feet.
> 
> Obviously you don't put a constrictor around your neck.  It didn't attack him...it tightened up, and cut off his airway, then the snake probably freaked out due to all the activity and just tightened up even further.


I see how that one goes, even when I handle my 2-3 foot BCI he freaks out if I try to take him off of my hand.  He tightens up then move around quickly.

So, would this be the first death from a boa constrictor in the U.S.?

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## Twisted Reptiles

This is just unfortunate all the way around.  Bad for the victim, the family...and bad for us, the community, we are the ones who will feel the backlash from this.

A poor choice compounded by a lack of reaction on the other persons part.

Couldn't get it off?  Really?  Kill it. Cut it off.  Do whatever you have to do.

Ugh.

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_Jason Bowden_ (06-10-2010),osmarcg (06-11-2010)

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## dc4teg

Im curious to see if the owner and his girlfriend were intoxicated.  Usually a smart person could react to a situation quickly, but if they were intoxicated, then this would make more sense!

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## CoolioTiffany

> Im curious to see if the owner and his girlfriend were intoxicated.  Usually a smart person could react to a situation quickly, but if they were intoxicated, then this would make more sense!


You have a very good point there.

To be honest, even though I've never had to pry off a 8-9 foot boa off of my neck, I don't think it would be too difficult to take a snake of that size unless you are just really weak or you are above the influence or drunk.

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## twan

R.I.P to the owner and much sympathy to his family and friends. This is not good for us at all. :Sad:

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_Jason Bowden_ (06-10-2010)

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## tonyaltn

There are conflicting reports of the snakes size, my local news reported it to be a 6 foot snake...I also love how they put a photo of a Ball Python up, I cant wait till folks in my small town see that and freak out over my "Boa Constrictor" when their kids come play with my kids thinking I have a "dangerous animal" thats going to strangle someone. I already have neighbors that are terrified of it, lol.  
Not a good thing for the reptile community at all...but we all know how the news never exagerates things, Im sure by the time this is over the snake will grow to be 15 feet long with 5 inch fangs that flies around at night hunting kids. That might be a little off (LOL) Im just thinking that I wouldnt be suprised if I am the only one in my town that owns a Python and when word gets out I may see folks with torches and pitchforks outside my window some night,  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):  

I may be a new snake owner, but I do love to read and from what I have read...the reptile community dont need any more bad press.

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## Chocolate Muffin's

An untimely death is always unfortunate, but I never understand why these things aren't just chalked up as tragic accidents. It's very clear the animal was not doing anything to intentionally harm its owner. 

I thought the comment made in the article about the Burmese Python was interesting...reminded me of the whole issue of Pitbull's versus humanity, debate. 

Maybe I was born yesterday, because I never read anywhere that one should never put a snake around their necks....guess I'm an idiot because my fattie loves nothing more than being wrapped around anything she can hold on to. :Very Happy: 

I know one should not drive under the influence.Never point a loaded gun without true intention...etc...the whole snake around the neck thing, I missed that. I do it all the time.

Done ranting.

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## MarkS

> So, would this be the first death from a boa constrictor in the U.S.?


I believe this is the first death from a boa constrictor in the WORLD. I've never even heard of a death from a wild one in their natural range. 

Weird things happen sometimes.  I remember hearing about a man who choked to death while fishing.  He caught a small fish, either a perch or bluegill I think, he was laughing at the small size when the thing flipped off of the hook and into his mouth. it went part way down his throat and got stuck.  They couldn't pull it out of his mouth due to the spines on the fins so he suffocated.  I guess maybe they should ban fishing too.

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## Crazy4Herps

I have dealt with the danger-of-being-killed-by-a-boa situation quite often from my parents when I was first getting into the hobby. The truth is this: if threatened, a snake *WILL NOT CONSTRICT*. I'm sure us ball python owners have all seen this first hand. Snakes ONLY constrict to eat, and there's no possible way a 7ft boa constrictor would recognize an adult human as food. Constriction is NEVER a defense; it actually puts the snake in a vulnerable position. If a boa feels threatened, it'll bite, and sure, a well aimed tag to the jugular could be fatal, but that's a whole different matter.

This whole situation has got to be a misunderstanding. As a boa owner myself, there's no way any semi-aware person could get themselves killed by a Bci. And the media's clearly misinformed take on it (not to mention the picture!) only makes things worse.

Folks, these problems aren't going to go away on their own. Every single snake keeper out there should be working their butts off to educate their neighbors, friends, family, and local schools about snakes. It's as much our fault as theirs that our hobby is so misunderstood. It's our responsibility to teach the rest of the world that snakes need to be respected, not feared.

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## mechnut450

it a shame  al lthe time i had my girl  she hold tight but that was so not to fall I had her wrapped around my waist, leg and shoulder and never had a problem( outside of trying to walk with a heavy weight on my one leg ( since i can bearly lift mine off the floor ( about 8 inches) with out holding not something).  and she loved to wander the snake room( pushing othe rtubs off the heat so she could lay there.) but never hurt a soul.  you had to have fur on you and be about cats size or smaller.   I know in my house it was common for mom and me to be in the same room when handling her only cause it took help to get me and the snake off the floor. most the time I handle the snake snake and mom would spot clean or vaccum the cage clean ( to remove any fine dust that built up after a couple cage cleanings.) 

HeckI was able to pull the snake off one ofthe cas  that went into her cage as I filled a 3 litter bottle in kitchen( it howI transporteed the water to the water bowl) and I heard a thump and a cat scream.  grabed the snake and just uncoiled her.  *no real effort was needed and I a weak  person*.

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## xdeus

I have spouted for years that Boa's have never killed a person.  I guess I can't state that anymore as this seems to be the first. Article

However, I do consider this a freak accident.  Thousands of people own Boas as pets and this appears to be the first death ever?  Can you say the same for people that own dogs, horses, or other animals?   As far as the person being drunk or not being able to remove the relatively small snake... well, I can see how it can happen if the snake had a strong grip on him.  For the record, I really don't think he was being attacked but rather the snake was just holding on for security.  It sounds like the snake put him in a sleeper hold (crushed his carotid arteries which will cause unconsciousness within seconds) and continued to hold on until his brain was deprived of oxygen.  In that case, the guy probably had very little time to realize what was happening much less do anything about it.  However, I'm sure the person that was near him could have removed the snake with a little effort, but they probably freaked and called emergency services instead of trying to get the snake off of him.  

Very sad, but hopefully it won't create too much of a backlash for snake owners.  :Sad:

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osmarcg (06-11-2010)

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## RhacHead

So I checked the comments on WOWT.com again and it seems asthough there have been some snake friendly comments.I was just curious if any BP.netters commented and if so what post was yours,
They also did a new story about how the family came out and said it was an accident and the comments on that story are twice as bad! It really makes me mad that these people are presenting opinions as facts... :Mad: 
http://www.wowt.com/mobi/home?storyi...wPrev=y&page=1

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## mainbutter

> The truth is this: if threatened, a snake *WILL NOT CONSTRICT*......Constriction is NEVER a defense;


I recall a thread on here where one of our members was administering oral medication to a large female BP.  This required restraining the snake's head and forcing the mouth open with a credit card.

The post claimed that the snake's body was free and 'constricted' his arm in defense.  A pic of the snake looking pissed, still constricting his arm after the medication was given, and looking directly at the camera was posted as well.  The poster's hand was a definite shade of purple.  I am pretty certain that this particular snake squeezed pretty hard to it's perch (in this case, a human arm) as a reaction to feeling distressed.

I can't remember any keywords, and the post was certainly many months ago if not over a year ago, but it lead me to believe that snakes WILL squeeze if distressed.. thought it may be more to feel secure on a perch than in an effort to defend itself.

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_hud556_ (06-11-2010)

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## angllady2

This was upsetting to me as well, so I wrote to one of the reporters and he wrote back that the ball picture was posted by mistake.  He apologized and thanked me for bringing it to his attention, and made sure the correct picture was posted.

I know it isn't much, but at least the poor ball isn't getting blamed anymore.

Gale

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## MikeV

To be honest, I think anybody spouting about "Oh.. look a boa/snake killed ONE person, so they are ALL dangerous" should be labeled as a racist or something

Let me explain

I take this on a personal level, thats like saying "A mexican person comitted a crime, SO THEY ARE ALL DANGEROUS" 

or 

"African Americans were known to live in ghettos (due to oppression) so they all must be gangsta thugs" 

or

All spiders are deadly

Or other variations of racist stereotypes or animal stereotypes

they are stereotypes, and Its the same exact thing as that, only for an animal. im serious there are animal stereotypes. 

And its just not true... if we heard about all the "first ever" deaths in the news, nothing else would get through. for real... 

"And today somebody died because thier eyelash stabbed them in the eye and went into thier brain. ALL EYE LASHES ARE DANGEROUS quick cut them all off"

I hate the media. I probably made no sense here by the way, im to worked up, I hate seeing things like this. Even worse is that I am soon to own a snake and it just makes me sad to see this fear mongering spread about snakes  :Tears: 

 :Mad: 


edit: on a good note, its good to know that the media is full of failures. the story is on a red tailed boa and they put up a pic of a BP

good job, seriously, nice job

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## MustBeSatan

I was thinking something similar...  Like frankly, when you realize the snake is going to kill your friend, you'd think you'd do something more drastic.  In 99% of cases I'm totally anti hurting animals but, when push comes to shove and someone's life is at stake, they are more important than their pet.  Very sad story.

As a side note, does anyone else find it rediculous that the Nebraska TV website (first link posted) included a pronunciation guide for the name of the town in their online report about this??

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## stratus_020202

I know this family  :Sad: 

It was just him and his girlfriend, who he had only known for a couple weeks. She called his roommate who came and removed the snake. They said she just sat on the top of the stairs and waited for the roommate to arrive. Poor girl. She's going to be afraid of snakes for life. 

This is why they say anything over 8 feet to have another person there with you (who knows what to do if something goes wrong). I know we love our pets, but sometimes we forget they have no arms or legs. This is what they do to hold on, and it doesn't take much to strangle someone. 

RIP. On the lighter side, I think they are going to send the snake to the zoo. Good luck.

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## mainbutter

She's going to not only be terrified of snakes, but be haunted by the fact that all she could do was be paralyzed with fear.  I certainly don't blame her, uncontrollable fear is just that, uncontrollable.

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## Mike Cavanaugh

Ok, I'm gonna say it.   This looks to me to be total bullspit.  I honestly and truly think that the room mate and the girl strangled the guy, then put the snake around him and called the cops.

It sounds like I am joking, but I am dead serious.  There is a reason that there are thousands and thousands of Red Tail Boa pets out there, and as far as I know nobody has ever been killed by one. 

A 9 ft 25lb Redtail Boa strangling a GROWN man????  A GROAN man with lots of experience handling the snake???  A GROWN man with two other people in the room?

1.) As a Red Tail owner I ask; How is it humanly possible that this guy was not able to unwrap a 25 lb snake from his own neck?  I know how strong they are...  but they are NOT hard to unwrap from something.. even your own neck.  

2.)  Are you serious?  They are claiming that the guy getting choked AND his GROWN room mate were unable to unwrap the snake? Complete and total BS.   Anyone that has handled a 9 foot snake before can tell you with absolute certainty that this is not possible.  NO WAY two adults would not be able to unwrap a 9 foot 25lb  snake.... not to mention that there was a third person, a GROWN female friend that would have also helped. 

3.)  So let me get this part straight... the friend is getting choked out.  then he drops to the floor and stops moving.  And apparently the friends just stood there and waited at this point for the cops to come (cause the snake was still around his neck when the got there) Who in the world would just sit there and look at it waiting for the police to arrive?  You can't tell me that there is a single person who would not eventually run into the kitchen, grab a knife, fork, scissors, or anything to attack the snake.  They say now they don't know what to do with the snake.. perhaps send it to the zoo.  This leads me to believe that somehow the snake was not injured at all during all this?????!!!!!!!!!   Give me a break.  Who can we talk to to make sure the local authorities investigate this MURDER correctly?  They need to talk to professionals so they can see just how ridiculous this story is.  They need to hold the snake themselves.   

I will be more then happy to hold that very snake myself... let it wrap my neck completely, scare the crap out of it and make it totally constrict.  Then I can show them how easy it is to unwrap BY MYSELF.  Then I will do it again, and this time let another adult unwrap it without help from me.  Then they can see how it is even 10 times easier for someone else to remove!   Then I will do it a third time... and both I and another adult will pull it off at the same time.  Then they can see that that snake would be off my neck in seconds without any struggle.  

Seriously, who can we call on this?

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_Crazy4Herps_ (06-11-2010)

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## Repsrul

This is why I have a problem with people putting snakes around there necks. One never knows what will happen. 

 When I am doing a backyard "seminar" about snakes this is one of the things I tell them not to do. I repeat this over and over. All of the kids want to touch and hold the snakes and the first place they want to put them is around the neck. After my "seminar" that is the last place they want to put a snake. 

 My condolences to the family and friends of the deceased.

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## Mike Cavanaugh

commented on other thread.  can the mods join the two?   :Very Happy: 

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...=121610&page=3

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## WingedWolfPsion

> I will be more then happy to hold that very snake myself... let it wrap my neck completely, scare the crap out of it and make it totally constrict.  Then I can show them how easy it is to unwrap BY MYSELF.  Then I will do it again, and this time let another adult unwrap it without help from me.  Then they can see how it is even 10 times easier for someone else to remove!   Then I will do it a third time... and both I and another adult will pull it off at the same time.  Then they can see that that snake would be off my neck in seconds without any struggle.  
> 
> Seriously, who can we call on this?


Never underestimate the incompetence of people who are panicking.  I understand the people who eventually got the snake off of him had a hard time doing so, as it was still tightly wound.
There IS A REASON safe handling procedures apply to snakes over 8 feet long, and not over 10 feet, or some other number.  This snake was on the low end of that scale, at only a bit over 9 feet, and still managed to overcome a man.  Obviously not a knowledgeable or experienced man, but still a fully grown adult.  

The fact that you can get a large snake off of your neck does not mean that this man could--he obviously didn't know where to start.  I also think I've seen that boa, when it was for sale in the pet store.  :Razz:  

I think your demonstration would only cause pain to the grieving family and friends of this man.  It's what could have been done...but wasn't, because no one knew what to do.

The Nebraska Herp Society is planning to hold a seminar on safe handling practices for large reptiles.  Could be a big event if they can get word out properly.

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## Mike Cavanaugh

> This snake was on the low end of that scale, at only a bit over 9 feet, and still managed to overcome a man.  Obviously not a knowledgeable or experienced man, but still a fully grown adult.


But thats just it.  Number one, in my honest opinion, even if he had no experience, he would still be able to unwrap a 25lb, 9 foot snake.. especially with help.  And number two, by what the neighbors say, I would consider him a very experience handler...  In some of the articles neighbors said he had it out all the time.  They said he would often show it to neighbor kids, and let them hold it.   

LOL, I don't even handle my Red Tail that much, so I guess he was more experienced then me!

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## WingedWolfPsion

But he wasn't an experienced handler.  He'd only had it for about 4 months, and his showing it off to the neighbor kids was just reckless (all things considered), rather than a sign that he knew what he was doing.

One of the board members here lived nearby and saw the guy carrying it around on his shoulders before.  So he just didn't know not to put the snake around his neck.

There's no conspiracy here, just people who didn't bother to do their research or learn about the animal they had beforehand, and had no idea what to do in an emergency.  Panic makes people dumb, and they lose their lives.

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## WingedWolfPsion

I think Darkice and I posted the original threads simultaneously, as soon as we heard the guy didn't make it.

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## stratus_020202

We have no mods on. Isn't that strange?

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## Mike Cavanaugh

Yeah, I am not suggesting that he was the role model Boa owner... but if he held the thing often during those four months, he should have gotten the hang of it don't you think?

I will politely bow out of the conversation now... My condolences to the family, and to the victim; may he rest in peace.  You NE locals please update us as this story develops in your local news.

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## Animals As Leaders

Alright, I wasn't going post anything on this but I'm going to.

To those who don't think that a RTB could kill a human being I think your nuts.  25lbs of muscle?  Its not just a bicep, its a snake that can wrap itself completely around your neck and then squeeze, which they are made to do.  25lbs of a perfect squeezing machine around your neck I'm pretty sure can KILL you.  I had my one BIG BP around my neck once and I let her go all the way around while I was walking around my house.  The second I realized was the second I felt something very scary.  She began to move herself I think around my neck and in order for her to do that she needed to squeeze and let me tell you It was like a sleeper hold.  I panicked to be honest, but I knew how to remove the snake without causing it harm or myself.  I can only imagine a rtb getting around my neck and then squeezing.  I think people underestimate the squeezing power snakes have.

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_WingedWolfPsion_ (06-11-2010)

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## stratus_020202

I think any animal can hurt a person. When we underestimate thier power, that's when things go wrong. 

"Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst"

I love my balls, and I do trust them with any person who walks in my house. I will not wrap one around someone's neck, and I do not allow people in my snake room without me or Jason up there.

Freak accidents happen. We have to be prepared when they do.

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_Crazy4Herps_ (06-11-2010)

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## xdeus

> commented on other thread.  can the mods join the two?


Threads merged.  :Wink:

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## MikeV

> Alright, I wasn't going post anything on this but I'm going to.
> 
> To those who don't think that a RTB could kill a human being I think your nuts.  25lbs of muscle?  Its not just a bicep, its a snake that can wrap itself completely around your neck and then squeeze, which they are made to do.  25lbs of a perfect squeezing machine around your neck I'm pretty sure can KILL you.  I had my one BIG BP around my neck once and I let her go all the way around while I was walking around my house.  The second I realized was the second I felt something very scary.  She began to move herself I think around my neck and in order for her to do that she needed to squeeze and let me tell you It was like a sleeper hold.  I panicked to be honest, but I knew how to remove the snake without causing it harm or myself.  I can only imagine a rtb getting around my neck and then squeezing.  I think people underestimate the squeezing power snakes have.


Im going to have to agree

Having loved snakes all my life, and doing massive amounts of research on many large pythons/boas ect, I think you are very correct

Now, I dont know that much to be honest. Ill always be learning but from what ive seen snakes 8 feet plus can crash with the equal of a car sitting on your chest

or in this case... your neck

Bigger snakes like 10ft+ have been recorded constricting with the equal to a school bus sititting on your chest, again, in this case its the neck

Now I may be off on the feet there, maybe its more like 9 - 12 ft for the first example, and 12 - 15ft for the second, or more

All im saying is that they can CRUSH. The greatest error in this situation in my opinion was that people lost thier minds

They couldn't react properly to the situation due to the overwhelming fear. Snakes can crush with massive force, but like said before you guys all have much experience and say that they can be taken off easily

So thats what im going to roll with, I believe that the fear and lack of response is what went wrong. You cant call the police here and wait 2 - 5 mins. you cant call anybody

you have to react yourself, immediatly. and that didn't happen unfortunatly

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_stratus_020202_ (06-11-2010)

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## hud556

Seems like an animal that wasn't getting the respect it deserves. I guess you have to be drunk to be killed by a 25lbs constrictor right? Im not saying Boas pose a threat but havent recent events shown their dangerous potential? This guy could of only had seconds to react. If you get complacent with 25lbs of snake around your neck it doesnt matter if its a Red Tail or a Corn snake. It just seems that because its a "Boa" you should take no precautions. But its just an observation...

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## panthercz

I emailed them yesterday about having the improper photo and they got back to me this morning and said they changed it.

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## WingedWolfPsion

The article's photo has been changed, looks much more appropriate now.

It really is terrible that this happened, especially now.  

I've had a ball python squeeze my arm hard enough to cut off blood flow.  

Perhaps this poor fellow wasn't just asphyxiated, but also had his carotid artery pinched.  That can put you down pretty darned quick.  The neck is such a vulnerable area, and that's a lot of muscle to be applied there pretty suddenly.

People really DO underestimate the strength of constrictors--obviously, even keepers underestimate it.  

Try to remember that a fully grown green anaconda can actually break all of your ribs, and your shoulders...not just suffocate you.  90 PSI force is applied.  Imagine that applied evenly around your neck--I don't care if you are Hulk Hogan, you need help.

In order to unwrap a snake from your neck, you have to be conscious.  If they hit the right spot, and squeeze with the right amount of pressure, you won't be.

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## MarkS

> Alright, I wasn't going post anything on this but I'm going to.
> 
> To those who don't think that a RTB could kill a human being I think your nuts.  25lbs of muscle?  Its not just a bicep, its a snake that can wrap itself completely around your neck and then squeeze, which they are made to do.  25lbs of a perfect squeezing machine around your neck I'm pretty sure can KILL you.  I had my one BIG BP around my neck once and I let her go all the way around while I was walking around my house.  The second I realized was the second I felt something very scary.  She began to move herself I think around my neck and in order for her to do that she needed to squeeze and let me tell you It was like a sleeper hold.  I panicked to be honest, but I knew how to remove the snake without causing it harm or myself.  I can only imagine a rtb getting around my neck and then squeezing.  I think people underestimate the squeezing power snakes have.


And I think you are DRASTICALLY overstating the dangers.  Boas are no more dangerous today then they have been for the last few thousand years.  And despite many tens of thousands being kept by private individuals in this country alone, there has now been ONE death attributed to them?  I have a few boas myself, one of quite a good size and I fed her and cleaned her cage all by myself the other day.  Since then I have engaged in several behaviors that are statistically FAR more dangerous.  Including such death defying feats such as 'driving to work', 'cleaning my garage', 'taking a shower', and of course 'eating at McDonalds'

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_Crazy4Herps_ (06-11-2010),_Mike Cavanaugh_ (06-11-2010),_minguss_ (06-11-2010),_xdeus_ (06-11-2010)

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## Mike Cavanaugh

> To those who don't think that a RTB could kill a human being I think your nuts.  25lbs of muscle?  Its not just a bicep, its a snake that can wrap itself completely around your neck and then squeeze, which they are made to do.  25lbs of a perfect squeezing machine around your neck I'm pretty sure can KILL you.  I had my one BIG BP around my neck once and I let her go all the way around while I was walking around my house.  The second I realized was the second I felt something very scary.  She began to move herself I think around my neck and in order for her to do that she needed to squeeze and let me tell you It was like a sleeper hold.  I panicked to be honest, but I knew how to remove the snake without causing it harm or myself.  I can only imagine a rtb getting around my neck and then squeezing.  I think people underestimate the squeezing power snakes have.


If you honestly and truly feel you were put in a sleeper hold by a BP... and it made you panic, I honestly don't think there is anything I can say to make you understand what I am trying explain. 




> Having loved snakes all my life, and doing massive amounts of research on many large pythons/boas ect, I think you are very correct
> 
> Now, I dont know that much to be honest. Ill always be learning but from what ive seen snakes 8 feet plus can crash with the equal of a car sitting on your chest
> 
> or in this case... your neck
> 
> Bigger snakes like 10ft+ have been recorded constricting with the equal to a school bus sititting on your chest, again, in this case its the neck


I would love to see your references on this.  Please share.

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## MikeV

> If you honestly and truly feel you were put in a sleeper hold by a BP... and it made you panic, I honestly don't think there is anything I can say to make you understand what I am trying explain. 
> 
> 
> 
> I would love to see your references on this.  Please share.


National geographic or Animal planet, forget what it was, Did a test. They took a 10 - 15 ft snake (forget which type, and forget the exact size) But it did a certain amount of PSI which constricting a prey item (with sensors on it to measure PSI ect)

which they converted to saying "this amount of PSI crushing you would be like this car, or that bus" ect ect

So they convert it to make it more understandable to people who dont really understand PSI. to me saying, "this much PSI would be affecting you" I think... "okay.." but if you say

"This PSI = equal to a bus on you = bad" I get it a lot more

Im sure you could find a clip on this, infact im going to search for it

BRB

Found it

at the end it shows you the Bus comparison, now that snake may be over 15 feet, which is why i never claimed to be spot on with my numbers, as i said, i dont know how large it was.

YouTube - Anaconda crushing force at 90psi?

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_Mike Cavanaugh_ (06-11-2010)

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## MarkS

I've seen  that video before and while it's very impressive, remember that they're testing an anaconda not a boa constrictor.  As big as boas can get, anacondas can get immensely bigger and more powerful.  That's not even comparing apples to oranges, it's more like comparing apples to blueberries.

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## BHB

There are so many tragedies in this story. From the guy that died and his love ones to our hobby. There is no way to spinn this to where our hobby doesn't take a huge hit. For us out there that have been fighting for Boas to not be classifies as killers, our battle has just gotten a lot tougher. For the Senator Nelson's of the world or the other folks out there trying to ban our pythons and boas their job just got a lot easier. I have been working with big snakes for over 20 years and I have no idea how something like this could ever happen?? The fact is that it did happen and now we have a mess to be worried about. Trust me in the days to come there will be more and more misinformation put out there by HSUS, and the likes. The fact is a Boa killed someone and there is no way that we will be able to make an argument that changes that fact. We as a hobby will have to really try to be as proactive as possible. If we are not willing to show the powers that be that we are willing to try to avoid this problem in the future they will yank our rights away from us in a heartbeat. I for one as sick to my stomach about this entire tragedy. I also feel terrible for USARK today, their job just got a lot tougher. They need our support more then ever! Brian(BHB)

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_Aes_Sidhe_ (06-12-2010),_Twisted Reptiles_ (06-12-2010)

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## Seclipse

i commented on the other thread posted here, but this is such a sad story, for the poor fellow who died, and for the poor rtb who will be most likely destroyed because of this. i am sure the man was a very competent handler and care taker of his snake and this is very disturbing that this happened to him.
i do hope they do a proper investigation intot his to find out exactly why the snake constriced to tightly. i agree with the pervious post that the snake prolly felt scared or threatened when it was being pryed off(which im sure was violently due to the situation) and futher enforced its grip.

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