# Other Pythons > Morelia >  GTP feeding

## fluffykitten

So my neonate GTP is being rather stubborn at the moment it's been 4 weeks in a row that he has refused food. The first two weeks he ate like a champ even tho it was the first time he's had a f/t mouse. I was told that before he was on live pinks.  I was able to just tap him on the side and tail and he would strike and eat. But lately no such luck even with annoying him trying to get a strike he won't.  Currently he's at 17g. I have been trying at night with the lights off with the exception to the lights from my other cages so have just enough to see what im doing.  I have tried even varying the temp of the pinks to 88 to almost 100 degrees.  
His cage is 12x12 with a few perches for him to hangout on and some fake leaves to give him some place to hide.  The cold spot is 77 to 79 with a hot spot of 92 to 93.  Mist him in the morning and night to keep his humidity around 75 to 90 percent.  During the day he does not really do much. At night he really starts to move around and exploring his cage.  
I'd like to see this little noodle get back on track so he can get big and strong. So if anyone has any ideas or suggestions id like to hear them.

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## Jaajo

I recently bought a neonate GTP which went off feed for a 5 weeks, probably due 24hr transportation in a car and settling in to the new cage. I got my GTP back on track by scenting the mouse with chick down. I just thawed the mouse in warm water as usual, added some chick down to the mouse and after slight tapping on the sides the GTP took the meal and has been eating since. I´ve read that some people have also used egg yolk for scenting.

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## SDA

No offense but do you know the care needs for a GTP? Neonates are very particular. I would highly suggest reading up quick on care guides 

First off your temps are way too high. Basking spot needs to be from above or the side and no hotter than 88 degrees but in realistic means, 84-86. Cool should be in the mid 70s. You need to make sure you have the proper tub setup with adequate perches to let them regulate. 

Neonates can either be voracious feeders or very finicky. A finicky eater should never be sold to anyone until eating for a set period of time. 17 grams is far too small as they should not be sold before even close to 4 months of age and should be far larger than that.

GTPS stress very easily and take a while to get that stress response going. They can seem fine for a week or two then just stress out for a month.

I would make it as stress free as possible which means you do not handle or bother as much as possible. This means not misting directly on the snake and only opening the tub to change water and offer food. 

How old and what locality is it? Where did you get it from and is it captive bred or wild caught/farm raised?

If it is feeding on live then you need to feed on live. I would also either get the complete chondro book and/or get on this facebook group and read up on this forum for how to care for neonates. If this is a wild caught or foreign farm import you need to get a fecal done soon to rule out parasites.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/MoreliaViridis

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/moreliaviridis/


For now get that temperature under control, you have it way too hot. 

Look here for perchs for tub setup that work great

https://www.specialtyenclosuredesigns.com/


Get in contact with the breeder for help. If you got it from a reptile expo, craigslist, or pet store that is not the breeder then I hope it works out.

Not trying to be mean but these are not snakes for first time keepers and should be researched for a long time before diving into.

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fluffykitten (03-22-2018)

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## Ernie Mccracken

> Neonates can either be voracious feeders or very finicky. A finicky eater should never be sold to anyone until eating for a set period of time.


If I really felt the animal was starving and I'd already offered 3+ times, I'd be tempted to just assist feed instead of continuing to harass it to eat voluntarily.  Your take?

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## SDA

Assist feeding might be necessary if really a 17 gram neonate but I think that might be a typo because I can't imagine anyone selling a newborn that underweight.

Most likely it is simply stressed and patience needs to be done. There are proven techniques to stimulate a feed response in neonates and are almost always successful. Scenting can work but feeding the same type and live status as was being fed is also important.

I would say only assist feed if experienced in doing so and only if all husbandry is perfect first. For now they should adjust husbandry issues then offer every 3-4 days and using the techniques to get them interested like stroking the sides of the head with the pinky.

It might also help to see a picture of the snake, the tub and give us a real weight as I am pretty sure 17 grams was a typo

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## Sauzo

> So my neonate GTP is being rather stubborn at the moment it's been 4 weeks in a row that he has refused food. The first two weeks he ate like a champ even tho it was the first time he's had a f/t mouse. I was told that before he was on live pinks.  I was able to just tap him on the side and tail and he would strike and eat. But lately no such luck even with annoying him trying to get a strike he won't.  Currently he's at 17g. I have been trying at night with the lights off with the exception to the lights from my other cages so have just enough to see what im doing.  I have tried even varying the temp of the pinks to 88 to almost 100 degrees.  
> His cage is 12x12 with a few perches for him to hangout on and some fake leaves to give him some place to hide.  The cold spot is 77 to 79 with a hot spot of 92 to 93.  Mist him in the morning and night to keep his humidity around 75 to 90 percent.  During the day he does not really do much. At night he really starts to move around and exploring his cage.  
> I'd like to see this little noodle get back on track so he can get big and strong. So if anyone has any ideas or suggestions id like to hear them.


Drop the temps. I keep mine at an ambient of around 77-79 throughout the cage. He has one small spot at the back right corner that has a little Nano CHE and a t-stat set to 85F. GTPs generally dont like it really hot. At least he isnt grounding so you got a plus there.

Second, dont mist the snake. Most babies hate being sprayed with water and it can piss them off or stress them out. I personally never mist my cage and im using a Zoo Med 18x18x18 cube. I just cover the top with tin foil and leave a hole in the back right corner for the CHE. I use Reptichips on the floor with a large water dish and a live potted plant. That keeps humidity around 65-70%. You dont want a constantly wet cage. That will create RI conditions.

Also give us a pic of what you got. The snake might not feel secure. Pat LOVES plastic plants so i have 4 of those in cage which he will sleep next to and play around on all night long. It's a good sign he is at least exploring at night.

When you offer him food, are you just touching him? Sometimes you have to kind of smack em around to get them good and pissed lol. Also you can try and pinch the snout of the pinky mouse to create blood.

Also is the snake drinking? A dehydrated snake wont eat. Again, need to see the set up. Do you have elevated water bowls? Have you seen the snake drink? Are you injecting the FT with water? 

Neonate GTPs really arent that hard from what i have seen but you need to get it right. There is too much that can wrong if you dont know what you are doing. But otherwise, to me, they are as easy to care for as my BCI boas.

To give you an example, here is Pats cage. I got him about 3 months ago when he was about 10 inches long. He was a little bit of a problem feeder for the gal but now, he is about 20 inches long and eats like a horse every 5-7 days. After about the 4th day, he is out in force at night looking for food or perched at the front of the cage staring out the door lol.



Also, if i didnt emphasize it enough, you need to make sure the snake is drinking. They use liquid to digest food. They also lose liquid to too much heat. They also piss out liquid. And neos will dry up quick. Try and hold a little tiny bottle cap of water to the snakes face during the day. It might drink. Pat drank water that way at first. Then he figured out the elevated little water dishes and found his large water dish at the floor which he swims in pretty much nightly. I still inject his FT fuzzy mice with water though to make sure he stays hydrated even though i have seen him drink.

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IsmQui718 (03-29-2018),_redshepherd_ (04-18-2018)

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## Sauzo

> If I really felt the animal was starving and I'd already offered 3+ times, I'd be tempted to just assist feed instead of continuing to harass it to eat voluntarily.  Your take?


Some babies need to be harassed the get them to start eating. It sounds this baby has already been eating and then quit. Baby snakes dont eat and then quit for no reason. There is an issue. My guess is dehydration as that is a very common issue with neobate GTPs. It also leads to prolapse which is why you see a lot of neonate GTPs prolapse but almost never see adults prolapse. Adults have much more mass and much more body liquid. Babies dry out really fast which can lead to a downhill spiral really fast.

I personally would not assist feed unless it was a last resort. If the snake is dehydrated to the point it wont eat and you shove food into, you are asking for a prolapse or a regurg and then even more issues. Now as the last resort, you can assist feed and inject the feeder with a nice amount of unflavored Pedalyte to replace liquids for it but again, i would start off with offering it a bottle cap of water to its face and see if it drinks. If it does, do that every day for a week and then offer it some food as well as making sure you have elevated water bowls next to its favorite perch spots.

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## fluffykitten

> No offense but do you know the care needs for a GTP? Neonates are very particular. I would highly suggest reading up quick on care guides 
> 
> First off your temps are way too high. Basking spot needs to be from above or the side and no hotter than 88 degrees but in realistic means, 84-86. Cool should be in the mid 70s. You need to make sure you have the proper tub setup with adequate perches to let them regulate. 
> 
> Neonates can either be voracious feeders or very finicky. A finicky eater should never be sold to anyone until eating for a set period of time. 17 grams is far too small as they should not be sold before even close to 4 months of age and should be far larger than that.
> 
> GTPS stress very easily and take a while to get that stress response going. They can seem fine for a week or two then just stress out for a month.
> 
> I would make it as stress free as possible which means you do not handle or bother as much as possible. This means not misting directly on the snake and only opening the tub to change water and offer food. 
> ...


No offense taken I am here to learn after all. 
I did get him at an expo, and he's a farm bred. The weight is not an typo. I use a ds6000 for checking weights.  I have only had him out once since I have had him to do some cleaning the other day.  
I have already made some changes to bring down the temps.  
I don't always mist him directly but I have. So I'll make sure not to anymore.  
I was told he's a manokwori local
I did pick up a copy of the complete chondro book. 
While I am not new to snake keeping, I have had snakes for over 20 years now. I now feel I didn't do enough research on the gtp before jumping in head first.

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## fluffykitten

This picture is from tonight

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## Sauzo

Doesnt look too dehydrated to me. The 2 lumps on his head are looking rather large, might be getting ready to shed. And honestly, that doesnt look Manokwari to me. Looks like Pat who is pure Biak. But kind of hard to tell with babies. You will find out when it changes colors. If it doesnt full change in a year or so, you have a biak lol. They can take up to 3 years and most will change their whole lives.

Anyways, cover the sides of the cage with black paper or reptile or aquarium backdrop to help him feel more secure.

Also you need to give him smaller perches. They should be no thicker than him. I have been told too big of perches can actually hurt their spines although, i cant verify that.

I personally use 1/2 inch oak dowels for Pat. He was on 1/4 inch ones when i first got him but he got upgraded. 

Also make sure the perches cant spin. GTPs HATE unstable perches lol.

Also for not eating for weeks, he doesnt look skinny lol. Pat was skinnier than that when i got him and now he has bulked up nicely and actually might be getting on the little chubby side haha.

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C.Marie (04-18-2018)

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## fluffykitten

> Drop the temps. I keep mine at an ambient of around 77-79 throughout the cage. He has one small spot at the back right corner that has a little Nano CHE and a t-stat set to 85F. GTPs generally dont like it really hot. At least he isnt grounding so you got a plus there.
> 
> Second, dont mist the snake. Most babies hate being sprayed with water and it can piss them off or stress them out. I personally never mist my cage and im using a Zoo Med 18x18x18 cube. I just cover the top with tin foil and leave a hole in the back right corner for the CHE. I use Reptichips on the floor with a large water dish and a live potted plant. That keeps humidity around 65-70%. You dont want a constantly wet cage. That will create RI conditions.
> 
> Also give us a pic of what you got. The snake might not feel secure. Pat LOVES plastic plants so i have 4 of those in cage which he will sleep next to and play around on all night long. It's a good sign he is at least exploring at night.
> 
> When you offer him food, are you just touching him? Sometimes you have to kind of smack em around to get them good and pissed lol. Also you can try and pinch the snout of the pinky mouse to create blood.
> 
> Also is the snake drinking? A dehydrated snake wont eat. Again, need to see the set up. Do you have elevated water bowls? Have you seen the snake drink? Are you injecting the FT with water? 
> ...


 I have seen him drink, he has a good size water bowl on the floor but none up higher. I'll try the bottle cap of water idea too. 

When I try to feed I first offer it just in front of head then I'll for the lack of better words gently smack him around with the pink by tapping him on the head and sides and tail.  This worked well for the first two feedings.  I can try to inject the pinks too but that will only help if I can get him back on food. 
 I'll work on getting a picture of the enclosure in the morning.

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## Sauzo

> I have seen him drink, he has a good size water bowl on the floor but none up higher. I'll try the bottle cap of water idea too. 
> 
> When I try to feed I first offer it just in front of head then I'll for the lack of better words gently smack him around with the pink by tapping him on the head and sides and tail.  This worked well for the first two feedings.  I can try to inject the pinks too but that will only help if I can get him back on food. 
>  I'll work on getting a picture of the enclosure in the morning.


I would for sure add a couple little elevated water bowls. I personally use these. https://beanfarm.com/collections/foo...t=723909738523 with https://beanfarm.com/collections/foo...t=724029079579 as well as the large water bowl on the floor.

I wouldnt smack him on the head. They generally arent fans of having the prey come at their face. They seem to really get worked up if you rub it on their tail. I just dance mine around on tongs in front of him and then kind walk walk it away and after he checks it out for about 10-15 secs to verify it is food, he will snag it. But i dont put it right infront of his face. Like i said, i will bounce it out away from him a little, then touch his tail, then pull it away and then maybe touch his back body, and then bounce it in front of him some more. You know when they are interested as Pat will slowly follow it out as im bouncing it away and then when i bring it back in, he grabs it lol. He really isnt a deathly eater. He is pretty polite and grabs it by the head and then i just pull it and shake it a little and then let go and he hangs it down and wraps it and swallows.

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C.Marie (04-18-2018),fluffykitten (03-22-2018)

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## SDA

Good to see that image. I think you might have read the weight wrong as there is no way the GTP from that image is 17 grams. It also is not underfed. If anything it is doing well and can handle the lack of eating for a bit. 

Follow what Sauzo said about feeding and water. They respond best to prey offered in front of them on the perch and allowing them to "hunt" it. Ganja wants her prey slowly moved toward her head and takes about a minute or two before she shows interest. It is important not to just offer and give up. It can take several attempts before they strike and coil.

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fluffykitten (03-22-2018)

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## fluffykitten

> Good to see that image. I think you might have read the weight wrong as there is no way the GTP from that image is 17 grams. It also is not underfed. If anything it is doing well and can handle the lack of eating for a bit. 
> 
> Follow what Sauzo said about feeding and water. They respond best to prey offered in front of them on the perch and allowing them to "hunt" it. Ganja wants her prey slowly moved toward her head and takes about a minute or two before she shows interest. It is important not to just offer and give up. It can take several attempts before they strike and coil.




Thanks everyone for your support and information so far. I went to the store and picked some things up this morning and will make some more changes tonight after work. 
 I'm going to 
Cover the sides and back with some background
 And made another change to my heat set up to bring down the temp some more. I made a change last night and the cool side went down to 75 to 77 but the hot spot is still a bit too high. 
 I'm going to order a elevated water dish too and put in some more plastic leaves so there is more hiding spots. 
 Anyone know were to get some chick down for scent? Should I just try to pick up a frozen chick this weekend at the expo? 

As far as the weight I'm pretty I read in correctly, unless its not accurate. tho I do use it for all of my other guys and it seems correct. I guess I will have to dig out my calibrated weight set to check it I guess maybe its off on the low end.

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## Sauzo

> Thanks everyone for your support and information so far. I went to the store and picked some things up this morning and will make some more changes tonight after work. 
>  I'm going to 
> Cover the sides and back with some background
>  And made another change to my heat set up to bring down the temp some more. I made a change last night and the cool side went down to 75 to 77 but the hot spot is still a bit too high. 
>  I'm going to order a elevated water dish too and put in some more plastic leaves so there is more hiding spots. 
>  Anyone know were to get some chick down for scent? Should I just try to pick up a frozen chick this weekend at the expo? 
> 
> As far as the weight I'm pretty I read in correctly, unless its not accurate. tho I do use it for all of my other guys and it seems correct. I guess I will have to dig out my calibrated weight set to check it I guess maybe its off on the low end.


You can have a little warmer hotspot. You just want to be sure to offer the snake cool spots too. 75-77F for a cool spot is great. Just make sure you give them some cover on the cool and warm side so they dont have debate on security vs temps. Security will win out all the time which can cause the snake to become too cold or too hot.

Like i said, Pat LOVES his plastic plants. He sleeps next to them during the day and plays on them during the night haha.

And no idea where to pick up chick down. Maybe look up your local feed stores or 4H clubs and find a local poultry farm and ask explain how you need chick down to the owner/farmer and he might just give you some.

And i agree, i dont see that guy weighing 17 grams. I think your scale is messed up. And really you dont need to weigh him. You are just stressing him out. I have no idea what Pat weighs. I am just happy he eats like clockwork every 5-7 days, poops and pees good and is a happy looking snake. Also doesnt hurt that for a biak, he is pretty laid back. He did try to caudal lure me last night even though he just ate the night before haha. Big ambitions from such a little snake.

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C.Marie (04-18-2018),fluffykitten (03-23-2018)

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## SDA

Just to reiterate, GTPs have a rather unusual stress response in captivity. They don't all go through this but when they do it can be frustrating. They can seem fine for a week or two and actually seem to be doing fine then they sort of shut down with feed responses and activity. This delayed response can last weeks to over a month. During that time they can refuse to eat and might ever go through a stress induced shed that seems problematic (mine did that).

The best thing to do is once you get husbandry on point you don't do anything and I mean anything to interact with the snake short of cleaning waste, replacing water regularly (like every 3 days or so in some cases) and offering food.

Your snake could just be going through stress but I also have to point out that GTPS are voracious eaters. They will literally gorge themselves to death so a feeding problem should not be ignored as typical.

The possible causes are: 

You bought a neonate too young that was not weened properly. A breeder should never release a GTP before it is eating several meals

Improper condition and inadequate feeling of security. This might be what is going on so get that husbandry on point and I mean on point. 

Disease. Your snake is too young hopefully to be negatively impacted by disease and we still do not know how and where you got this. Even from a breeder, GTPs can harbor parasites.


Of these three the first two is most likely your culprits and removing all possible means of stress (too high heat causes stress as well) is crucial.

While adjusting stress learn techniques for stimulating how they feed. There are youtube videos and many sites that explain how to do this. Avoid at all costs touching the mouth directly and do not come from above. Learn how to "tickle" them on sides with prey to get a response going. Also learn the difference between a defensive strike and a actual grab.

Your snake should technically be over 6 months old and if so can safely survive a month of not eating.

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fluffykitten (03-23-2018)

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## fluffykitten

So I have made some changes. Covered the sides and added smaller branches and added more plastic leaves. I also ordered the elevated water dish that will probably be here Monday or Tuesday.

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_Prognathodon_ (03-23-2018)

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## Sauzo

Looks good but i would move the CHE over to one side or the other. GTPs tend to go to the highest perch available and with the CHE right smack in the middle of the highest perch, the snake cant really get cool. 

And for the plants, what i have found works best for Pat is i will put the plants in front of the perches and not actually on the perches. That way the snake can still sit on the perches right next to the plants without plants actually covering them if that makes sense. Basically you are putting the plant between the perch and front of the cage. i do that with all 3 perches. Pat will sleep in the back left high perch behind a plant during the day and then at night, comes to the front high perch and sits in the middle of it.

And i would avoid misting the plants or the snake and if you have to, just mist the substrate. I mist my substrate about once a week. If you mist the plants and the oak dowels, they will mold. I found that out the hard way and a few people told me that too lol. And make sure the perches cant spin or move. GTPs dont like that.

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fluffykitten (03-23-2018)

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## fluffykitten

it may just be the way it looks in the picture, the CHE is all the way in that back right side.  

ill work on the plants I may have to trim them down a little bit. funny enough I looked in there this morning and couldn't see him. after looking for a bit I noticed he was curled up in the plants looking pretty comfy.  The perches are pretty solid and don't move around I just cut the wood slightly big and they are just kind of press fit in. That will work for now until I find some that works better. But at the very least they are much more stable than the old ones. what did you use to mount your perches? 

I haven't misted at all since yesterday morning and this morning I was still at 73% so I may be able to cut back on misting a bit.

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## SDA

Some people actually let their cages dry out between misting as in letting humidity drop to 40-50%. Outside of a shed cycle you should be fine not being so liberal with misting.

You changes look really good. Once you good with temps you may find a better feeding response. Keep us posted how it goes.

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fluffykitten (03-23-2018)

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## Sauzo

> it may just be the way it looks in the picture, the CHE is all the way in that back right side.  
> 
> ill work on the plants I may have to trim them down a little bit. funny enough I looked in there this morning and couldn't see him. after looking for a bit I noticed he was curled up in the plants looking pretty comfy.  The perches are pretty solid and don't move around I just cut the wood slightly big and they are just kind of press fit in. That will work for now until I find some that works better. But at the very least they are much more stable than the old ones. what did you use to mount your perches? 
> 
> I haven't misted at all since yesterday morning and this morning I was still at 73% so I may be able to cut back on misting a bit.


Haha, Pat used to curl up on top of the plants too. Once Pat settled in, he quit sleeping on the plants and slept on the perches more. Now he tries to caudal lure me at night to eat me. Little booger has some big ambitions haha.

Be careful of press fitting the perches into a glass cage. Wood swells from moisture and heat. It could blowout the sides of the cage.

I mount my perches with https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commerci...A-10/203531944. I use 1/2 inch perches for Pat and just use a dremel to grind one of the sides off the mounts and then dremel 2 sides of the perch ends flat and slide it down into the mount.

And yeah, like i said, i never really mist my cage at all. I use tinfoil over the whole top except for where the light dome is for Pat's UVB and daylight bulbs and where the Nano CHE is. That holds in humidity fine. You want relative air humidity, not a soaking wet cage lol. Even during shed, i never mist and Pat has had 2 perfect sheds with me. It's more about keeping the snake hydrated and snake skin is not like amphibian skin, it doesnt soak up liquids. They get their liquid from the ends...the entrance and the exit lol.

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C.Marie (04-18-2018),fluffykitten (03-23-2018)

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## fluffykitten

> Be careful of press fitting the perches into a glass cage. Wood swells from moisture and heat. It could blowout the sides of the cage.
> 
> I mount my perches with https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commerci...A-10/203531944. I use 1/2 inch perches for Pat and just use a dremel to grind one of the sides off the mounts and then dremel 2 sides of the perch ends flat and slide it down into the mount.


thanks a ton that works perfect. yes blowing out the sides of the cage would be very bad day. I found the mounts and used 7/16 dowels so that should work much better. i also did a little trimming on the leaves so they will fit better around the perches.  

so hopefully now he will be much happier in his environment. So im guessing all of the changing of stuff in his cage would be stressful for him.  Should I just leave him alone and not bother him at all for a full week before i offer food again. or wait like 4 days before trying again.

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## fluffykitten

> Some people actually let their cages dry out between misting as in letting humidity drop to 40-50%. Outside of a shed cycle you should be fine not being so liberal with misting.
> 
> You changes look really good. Once you good with temps you may find a better feeding response. Keep us posted how it goes.


yes thank you everyone that has been giving advice.  :Good Job:  I'm trying my best to try to get things right for him. id like to get to see him get big and strong lol.  The temps look much better now so hopefully that will help kick start things. I still haven't misted the cage today and the humidity is still 70%. so unless it drops real low I'm not going to mist.

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## Sauzo

> thanks a ton that works perfect. yes blowing out the sides of the cage would be very bad day. I found the mounts and used 7/16 dowels so that should work much better. i also did a little trimming on the leaves so they will fit better around the perches.  
> 
> so hopefully now he will be much happier in his environment. So im guessing all of the changing of stuff in his cage would be stressful for him.  Should I just leave him alone and not bother him at all for a full week before i offer food again. or wait like 4 days before trying again.


You can try to offer him food on his normal day. He should be fine.

You dont need to mist unless it goes down to 40% or so. My humidity sits around 60-75% and like i said, i mist maybe once a week. I use a single live plant in a pot now as i switched out a couple live plants for more plastic ones as Pat loves his plastic plants. The live plant keeps humidity good and live plants also filter out the air as most snake cages are run by limiting airflow.

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C.Marie (04-18-2018)

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## fluffykitten

just an update. I tried feeding again Monday night with still no luck. i have re watched some of the feeding videos that are on YouTube. i also scented the pink with a chick.  so at this point i covered the cage with a towel leaving some room at the top for air flow. i plan on just leaving him alone until next week when its feeding day.  im guessing hes still stressed out so hopefully this will help.

one of the videos i have watched a few times now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMGWHNEhEjg

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## SDA

Nothing really to add but this post on the gtp forum might be of help or at least a good read

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/more...es-t24646.html

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fluffykitten (04-08-2018)

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## fluffykitten

So I tried to feed again tonight but still no luck. I waited till evening when he's more active, showed maybe slightly more interest than before.  I have had his cage covered for the last 2 weeks and haven't been bothering him at all except to add water to the bowl. I know he's still drinking from the urates.  I had the front of the cage open and he came out so I was able to gets some pictures.

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## Sauzo

You sure your scale is accurate? 16 grams just seems so tiny.

Overall he doesnt look that bad but he does have wrinkly skin on the inside of his bends which to me, means either he shedding soon, might be a little dehydrated, skinny or kind of chubby lol.

I really dont know what to say. I mean he was eating before you got him right? And you know this because the breeder or shop was reputable and wouldnt be blowing smoke? Only thing i could think is maybe internal parasites which is causing him to not eat. I mean Pat eats every 5-7 days like clockwork and drops a deuce and piss about 4 days after eating. He does kind of dull on his blacks like Pat does when he is getting ready to shed. That combined with me not seeing him out front are the only 2 ways i know he is going into shed.

I just reread your first post so looks like he was eating so can probably ignore the parasite deal. I mean i was going to say try a smaller cage like a little tub but it seems he was doing fine before. He doesnt look backed up. I truly am at a loss. You got the temps right, you got him enough greenery to feel safe, you got high perches for cool and warm side. I mean i didnt read if you tried a live pinkie but maybe try that again.

I really dont know what to tell you  :Sad:

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C.Marie (04-18-2018),fluffykitten (04-09-2018)

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## fluffykitten

Yep sadly the scale is correct I checked it. He hasn't shed since I have had him so I guess that's possible.  That would be nice if he was just  waiting to shed.  I haven't tried live yet. Im going to do that next. If that doesn't work there is a breeder that has a small shop around here. I'm going to see if he help with assist feeding or force feeding but that's a last resort. 
The place I got him said he was eating but now I'm not so sure they could have been just blowing smoke. I should have asked for feeding records. 
I now strongly belive that he was way too small to be sold. I read somewhere that the average weight of a hatchling is about 14 to 15 grams so that make my guy just slightly bigger than a fresh out of the egg snakelet.  
 In all honesty I'm starting to worry about the little guy. I have had my share of difficult eaters over the years but he by far takes the cake.

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## Sauzo

> Yep sadly the scale is correct I checked it. He hasn't shed since I have had him so I guess that's possible.  That would be nice if he was just  waiting to shed.  I haven't tried live yet. Im going to do that next. If that doesn't work there is a breeder that has a small shop around here. I'm going to see if he help with assist feeding or force feeding but that's a last resort. 
> The place I got him said he was eating but now I'm not so sure they could have been just blowing smoke. I should have asked for feeding records. 
> I now strongly belive that he was way too small to be sold. I read somewhere that the average weight of a hatchling is about 14 to 15 grams so that make my guy just slightly bigger than a fresh out of the egg snakelet.  
>  In all honesty I'm starting to worry about the little guy. I have had my share of difficult eaters over the years but he by far takes the cake.


Well, you did have him eating for you you said. Then he just stopped. I mean, you havent changed anything im assuming which is the weird part. All of my snakes will go a couple weeks without food when shedding. Pat is the exception as he shed in 8 days but went without food those 8 days.

If you changed anything in the cage between when the snake was eating and then wasnt, i would change it back. And yeah, you might want to try and live pinky.

It's just so weird how he was eating when you got him but then quit. Babies can do downhill fast which is another weird thing as it's been 4+ weeks since he ate? And he doesnt look that bad.

Only thing i can think is just use the pinky to try and piss the snake off by rubbing him, banging on him and stuff but not around the face and hope the snake grabs it from maybe a pissed of defensive bite but then will turn into a food response.

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## fluffykitten

So the little guy finally got a pinky down by assist feeding. He was starting to get thin so it was time to go that route in my opinion. I call up a guy that has a reptile shop around here and talked to him and I guess he use to breed gtp about 25 years ago. So after taking with him I bought him down to him too look at. He agreed that he was too thin. So he was able to assist feed him with out any problems. 
With talking about my setup he thinks that the 12 by 12 cube is too small to get a proper thermal gradient.  He recommended going with at least an 18 by 18 and also said that unlike most other snakes. It's important to use a uvb light with them. So I will ba making some changes in the next few days that will hopefully get this guy back on track. If necessary he will keep getting assist feed till he will eat on his own. The shop owner also said that if I bringin some of his poo that he can check it under microscope. So fingers crossed

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## Sauzo

> So the little guy finally got a pinky down by assist feeding. He was starting to get thin so it was time to go that route in my opinion. I call up a guy that has a reptile shop around here and talked to him and I guess he use to breed gtp about 25 years ago. So after taking with him I bought him down to him too look at. He agreed that he was too thin. So he was able to assist feed him with out any problems. 
> With talking about my setup he thinks that the 12 by 12 cube is too small to get a proper thermal gradient.  He recommended going with at least an 18 by 18 and also said that unlike most other snakes. It's important to use a uvb light with them. So I will ba making some changes in the next few days that will hopefully get this guy back on track. If necessary he will keep getting assist feed till he will eat on his own. The shop owner also said that if I bringin some of his poo that he can check it under microscope. So fingers crossed


I disagree with a lot of this but if what this guy says works, then that is what matters. Here is a link to an article but Rico Walder and Trooper Walsh who were the guys who owned Signal Herp and were one of the first to actually breed GTPs in captivity. This is very good info. http://www.reptilesmagazine.com/Care...n-Tree-Python/

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## Regius_049

> So the little guy finally got a pinky down by assist feeding. He was starting to get thin so it was time to go that route in my opinion. I call up a guy that has a reptile shop around here and talked to him and I guess he use to breed gtp about 25 years ago. So after taking with him I bought him down to him too look at. He agreed that he was too thin. So he was able to assist feed him with out any problems. 
> With talking about my setup he thinks that the 12 by 12 cube is too small to get a proper thermal gradient.  He recommended going with at least an 18 by 18 and also said that unlike most other snakes. It's important to use a uvb light with them. So I will ba making some changes in the next few days that will hopefully get this guy back on track. If necessary he will keep getting assist feed till he will eat on his own. The shop owner also said that if I bringin some of his poo that he can check it under microscope. So fingers crossed


There is very little of this that is accurate in my experience. Also, how old is your neonate?

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## fluffykitten

I'm going to try some of the things that he recommended at this point it can't hurt.  The guys name in mike he says that he went to college for reptiles and teaching years ago and was a teacher for several years. That's how he gets his permit in nys for venomous stuff and big pythons. When I was little about 20+ years ago  him and someone else had a rather large pet shop and he was the one that owned and breed all of the reptiles there.  I remember seeing pythons hatching out of the eggs there when I was proll about 8 years old.  He said when he he first breed the gtp it was him and someone from nerd that worked on it.

- - - Updated - - -




> There is very little of this that is accurate in my experience. Also, how old is your neonate?


At this point I'm unsure of the age

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## Regius_049

I suppose this can serve to some degree as a warning for people buying  cheaper imports vs USCB green tree pythons.  USCB are just so much more  reliable, you know you have several feedings in them, and you have a  breeder to consult with husbandry questions.  However in this case, that  is moot.




> At this point I'm unsure of the age


I ask because manipulating young green tree pythons can be very  dangerous from a skeletal perspective.  There are mountains of stories  of specimens becoming deformed from restraining or probing as neonates.   It is for this reason I would be _extremely_ cautious about ever  force-feeding one.  Maxwell notes that 8-12 grams is a fairly normal  hatch weight and babies can go 8-10 weeks without feeding before he will  generally consider force-feeding.  My guess is he was eating overseas, then stopped after importation, thus the importer said he was eating.  

I went through this thread a little more and you have made some notable improvements from your initial setup.  However given that your last changes were ~1 month ago and he still isn't eating, he must not be "happy enough" or feel safe enough to feed.  I actually like the setup, and a more established neonate would probably do just fine in it (though I would have opted for a small RHP vs the CHE).  Chondros have been raised in worse setups, but generally (as much as I hate to say it) babies grow best in racks for their first year or so.  Almost all the successful breeders I know go from hatchling tub => shoe box -> adult enclosure (3' x 2' x 2') and this was the flow I followed.  They are hands down pickiest when they are young.

If you have a rack, then I would place him in a shoebox tub with a perch akin to this.  If not, I would go buy an opaque or semi-opaque tub about 12" x 10" x 6" or so and put some heat tape underneath one half.  Place the probe on the perch and set it to about 84-86 F.  This should ideally give you a small gradient from 85 F to maybe mid-70s.  The floor will be somewhat hot, but this will be fine as it wont be warm enough to burn your snake nor will the snake really spend any time down there.  Use a decent sized water dish and do not mist unless he is shedding.  A properly sized water dish will give you all the humidity you need.  When you go to feed, turn out the lights in the room and open the tub and try to tease feed.

Once get starts to hit OCC (color change), you can probably move him back into the setup you have, then on to something larger.

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## Sauzo

Pat is an import and he is fine. When i got him, the gal said he ate once in a month and was really skinny. I accepted the challenge and almost 4 months later, Pat is a chubby, happy little snake that isnt defensive or anything. He is actually very curious and has sat on me with no problem. About the worst he does when he doesnt to be messed with is hiss and then try and get back into his cage lol. The owner of the reptile shop says i have a way with snakes as i can get any snake switched over on prey or eating. I got my JCP switched from live black mice at night only to FT rats any time during the day or night lol.

There are plenty of good importers from Bushmaster like Harlin Wall and Ryan Burke.

Sure, you are taking more of a chance but with imports but i wouldnt dismiss them as an option.

And it's rather funny. I started Pat in a little tub and he actually did worse. Once i moved him to his 18x18x18 cube, he flourished. I dont buy that snakes need X amount of space to do good or not do good. In the wild, they dont live in a 12x10 cube or a 20 gallon breeder or whatever. The key is you need to make them feel secure. The reason i see tubs working so well for a lot is that is is cheap to use and the sides, top and overall small space acts as the cover in the snakes mind. But if you want to use bigger, you need to spend the cash to clutter it up right. The plus side to bigger caging is it is a lot easier to get a gradient but it can also be harder to maintain the correct temps and humidity. I could not get a tub set up right trying to use heat tape and stuff. I have started all my snakes in stuff a lot of people say are too big for babies and they all did fine and are relaxed and laid back now as juveniles or adults.

And i got Pat when he was about 6 months old and he is almost 10 months old now. Eats fine, poops fine, sheds all in one piece. I think he might actually be eating too good as this last feeding, he was more concerned about climbing over one of the plastic plants closest to the door and seeing whats outside over eating lol. I kept using the FT mouse to block him and finally i think it pissed him off enough that he just grabbed it and ate it haha.

The OPs little GTP boggles me though but i bet if i had it, i could get it to eat  :Smile:

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## fluffykitten

Just a small update. He did finally shed and now he does look a lot better.  Before that he was looking super dehydrated. He still a littel skinny but we are working on that. Hopefully soon he will start taking food on his own. At this point that will make me very happy.

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## Sauzo

Holy cow! That snake still isnt eating on its own??

I've heard of some snakes being a little special ed about food and needing to be 'taught' what food is but usually after a few times, they figure it out and start eating on their own.

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## fluffykitten

sadly yes.  its been very frustrating and has been requiring a lot of patience on my part. all i can do is try my best.

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## fluffykitten

So finally he's starting to put on some weight. He was looking super skinny for a bit. My hope is that eventually he will start eating on his own., I hope.

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Gio (06-25-2018),_Prognathodon_ (06-27-2018)

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## Gio

> So finally he's starting to put on some weight. He was looking super skinny for a bit. My hope is that eventually he will start eating on his own., I hope.


Nice setup and beautiful snake!

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fluffykitten (06-25-2018)

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## PiperPython

Is that a rock waterfall back there?  Trying to get ideas for my little guy's new setup.  Man I wish I could hold mine like yours!

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fluffykitten (06-26-2018)

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## fluffykitten

> Is that a rock waterfall back there?  Trying to get ideas for my little guy's new setup.  Man I wish I could hold mine like yours!



Yep it is, so far it works pretty good.  Yeah he's only once took a pop shot at me other than that he's very calm. When I was looking at them at the expo he was was the only one that didn't try to bite me. I hear some of them can have a real attitude.

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## fluffykitten

Just a small update, while before he would not even strike at the food or at anything for that matter. I did get him to start striking like crazy at the pinkie and he was biting and wrapping around it but would still not eat it. He would just let it sit in his coils till he moved and it fall to the bottom.  
 Hopefully at least it's progress.

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## Sauzo

Holy cow, that little snake is still not eating on its own? Is it a biak? I talked to a guy who has a biak as well as other GTPs and he told me his biak will grab and drop the food if he so much as closes the door while it is eating. Said his biak is the most pita feeder of all his GTPs. And Pat doesnt go crazy for food. He will inspect it for about a min while i'm jiggling it in front of him and stuff. Once he figures out it's food, he just latches onto the mouse's head and pulls back and hangs down and wraps it. Luckily, once Pat grabs food, he doesnt let go, thank god.

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## PiperPython

Ugh, I tried feeding Jester last week, and he just popped it a few times, then finally i got him to hold it, went away, and then came back to it on the ground and him curled up, i tried like 3 times and failed each time.


Hope he eats tonight  :Sad:

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## Zincubus

> Ugh, I tried feeding Jester last week, and he just popped it a few times, then finally i got him to hold it, went away, and then came back to it on the ground and him curled up, i tried like 3 times and failed each time.
> 
> 
> Hope he eats tonight


Do me a favour ...try the hairdryer trick .. 
Just wait till evening , dull lighting .
Have the glass doors open , mouse in tongs .. blast it with a hairdryer for ten seconds and  INSTANTLY dangle in front of the snakes face ... don't blink !!

If it shows any interest simply reheat and offer INSTANTLY again , just repeat the process exactly until it grabs it ... 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

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## kristan

I've kept several neo gtps....I'm surprised he's still not feeding for you. I only ever had one that didn't eat and decided to send it back to the breeder rather than mess with it (I got him back later when he was more established), and I acquired that one with the knowledge that he has been a finicky eater from the start. I kept all of my neos in shoebox size containers with clothes hanger perches until they were very established. As a general rule, I try to keep perches that are pretty close to the diameter of the snake. I've found that my gtps were a little more picky about the temps of their feeders than my garbage disposal bloods. I never tried the hair dryer trick, but it seems like a good idea. I hope you get him feeding soon. Usually if I could get mine to wrap it they would eat..just getting them to wrap was usually the battle for me.

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_Ax01_ (07-26-2018)

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## Ax01

> I've kept several neo gtps....I'm surprised he's still not feeding for you. I only ever had one that didn't eat and decided to send it back to the breeder rather than mess with it (I got him back later when he was more established), and I acquired that one with the knowledge that he has been a finicky eater from the start. I kept all of my neos in shoebox size containers with clothes hanger perches until they were very established. As a general rule, I try to keep perches that are pretty close to the diameter of the snake. I've found that my gtps were a little more picky about the temps of their feeders than my garbage disposal bloods. I never tried the hair dryer trick, but it seems like a good idea. I hope you get him feeding soon. Usually if I could get mine to wrap it they would eat..just getting them to wrap was usually the battle for me.


holy crap! what an amazing baby! wow!

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## kristan

Thanks! I had high hopes for her because she had some nice mite phased siblings from previous pairings, but she turned out all green.

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## enginee837

> Thanks! I had high hopes for her because she had some nice mite phased siblings from previous pairings, but she turned out all green.


Gotta love gtp's, they truly are the ninjas of the color changing world.  Never know what you are going to get.

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## Zincubus

> I've kept several neo gtps....I'm surprised he's still not feeding for you. I only ever had one that didn't eat and decided to send it back to the breeder rather than mess with it (I got him back later when he was more established), and I acquired that one with the knowledge that he has been a finicky eater from the start. I kept all of my neos in shoebox size containers with clothes hanger perches until they were very established. As a general rule, I try to keep perches that are pretty close to the diameter of the snake. I've found that my gtps were a little more picky about the temps of their feeders than my garbage disposal bloods. I never tried the hair dryer trick, but it seems like a good idea. I hope you get him feeding soon. Usually if I could get mine to wrap it they would eat..just getting them to wrap was usually the battle for me.


That's gorgeous!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

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## fluffykitten

> Holy cow, that little snake is still not eating on its own? Is it a biak? I talked to a guy who has a biak as well as other GTPs and he told me his biak will grab and drop the food if he so much as closes the door while it is eating. Said his biak is the most pita feeder of all his GTPs. And Pat doesnt go crazy for food. He will inspect it for about a min while i'm jiggling it in front of him and stuff. Once he figures out it's food, he just latches onto the mouse's head and pulls back and hangs down and wraps it. Luckily, once Pat grabs food, he doesnt let go, thank god.




I was told that hes manokwori, but at this point I don't believe any thing they told me. 


But now on a positive note he' eating two meals on his own :Very Happy:  :Very Happy:  :Very Happy: 
Now also he seems to be much more feisty while before he would almost never strike. Nowadays he will strike it almost anything that enters his cage whether it's a mouse or my hand. luckily as a baby their teeth are not too big.

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## purpleturtle11

How is this guy doing...way to keep at it....

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## fluffykitten

> How is this guy doing...way to keep at it....


Hes doing much better now. tho it took way longer than i would have liked.  he now takes food on his own about 95% of the time.  The last time i had to assist feed him was 12/30/2018.  weight wise he still is not were id like, but he is putting on the weight and looks much better now. just took along time and a ton of patience.

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## Reposado

12x12 is kind big. I used plastic coat hangers cut up for my baby GTP perches..now I have these pre made ones that just go in a tub. I love them. I have mine in a rack and she's doing phenomenally. 
https://www.specialtyenclosuredesign...ry=Tub+Perches

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