# Ball Pythons > BP Morphs & Genetics > Is This A Morph? / What Morph Is This? >  Help identifying?? Was told a bumble bee but thinking a kind of spider?

## boots01

She's lighter than she looks in the pictures....

Also, what would her and this guy, a cinnamon lesser, possibly create?



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_Lady mkrj58_ (09-19-2015)

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## Yodawagon

http://www.worldofballpythons.com/wizard/

Here you can experiment and see.

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_Lady mkrj58_ (09-19-2015)

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## h00blah

The fist snake is a spider, maybe even hypo.

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## gameonpython

Yup, definitely a spider maybe even a combo I'm not sure. I will tell you that this is not a bumble bee! 


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## boots01

> The fist snake is a spider, maybe even hypo.


How can you tell if it's a hypo?


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## boots01

> Yup, definitely a spider maybe even a combo I'm not sure. I will tell you that this is not a bumble bee! 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


What's the difference between combo and hypo?
Sorry I'm new! They're my first  :Smile:  I've only had them 3 days


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## boots01

> http://www.worldofballpythons.com/wizard/
> 
> Here you can experiment and see.


Thanks! 

The spider they show isn't her. She's way lighter than that one on their website.....


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## gameonpython

Hypo, also referred to as the ghost, is a recessive morph. A combo is a combination of morphs. For example, your snake could be a spider hypo combo. 


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## boots01

> Hypo, also referred to as the ghost, is a recessive morph. A combo is a combination of morphs. For example, your snake could be a spider hypo combo. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Goodness. I had no idea it could be so complicated lol is there any way to tell what she is?


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## OhhWatALoser

> Goodness. I had no idea it could be so complicated lol is there any way to tell what she is?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If you had picture that look like her, we could tell you right away. Solid color background, couple of daylight bulbs, and keeping your hand out of the picture would most likely show up much better.

or if she looks like any of these https://www.google.com/search?q=hone...IVhIwNCh1Dfw2x
how ever with as much black as is showing up in your one picture, I doubt she would be hypo.

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## francisco_24

> The fist snake is a spider, maybe even hypo.


This.

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## frostysBP

Normal spider and I would slow down with the breeding talk you have alot to learn before you even attempt breeding...fyi its hard to sell a snake when you cant even tell what the parents were

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_Lizardlicks_ (09-19-2015),Megg (09-20-2015),_Rorschach_ (09-20-2015),somdballs (09-19-2015)

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## boots01

> If you had picture that look like her, we could tell you right away. Solid color background, couple of daylight bulbs, and keeping your hand out of the picture would most likely show up much better.
> 
> or if she looks like any of these https://www.google.com/search?q=hone...IVhIwNCh1Dfw2x
> how ever with as much black as is showing up in your one picture, I doubt she would be hypo.


https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...FQ40iAodpN4AfQ

She looks like the lighter one in that picture. I'll see if I can get a better picture of her today. She's showing darker in these pics than she is 


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## boots01

> Normal spider and I would slow down with the breeding talk you have alot to learn before you even attempt breeding...fyi its hard to sell a snake when you cant even tell what the parents were
> 
> Sent from my A521L using Tapatalk


I'm not planning on doing it for a year or two. I'm just curious on potentional color. The friend I got them from told me one thing but I dont think it's true. And I'm not looking to sell. They'd be for me or family. And I'd only do it once. I don't really like selling animals, too many abusive homes, I don't like risking it


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## BigJay

Looks like a HoneyBee to me ( a hypo/ghost  spider) the black marking are dull and brownish instead of dark thick black.  Could be the lighting though

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## boots01

It's really hard to get a pic of her light coloring.... Her eyes almost look greenish? I'm gonna have to get out my real camera I think


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## boots01

> Looks like a HoneyBee to me ( a hypo/ghost  spider) the black marking are dull and brownish instead of dark thick black.  Could be the lighting though


Yes, she doesn't have black, it's more brown. And she's yellow /tan colored with yellow specks close to get underside 


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## somdballs

yes it can be complicated i've done a lot of research before purchasing any and the help of everyone here on this forum and emails to Brain @ BHB Enterprise, but the best thing i can suggest (since im still new to this as well and still learning all the over 4,000 different morphs of ball pythons. lol) is to go http://www.worldofballpythons.com and in the search bar type spider because u can tell it has spider in it and it will show you every morph the has Spider in it, and go through and look to find one that looks like what you have. there is going to be a lot to look through but it will show u everything with spider gene in it, and usually have several pic of babies and adults of that morph unless rare or new. good luck! they both look awesome. and as mentioned above you can go to the genetic wizard @ http://www.worldofballpythons.com and put in what u have male/female and will show you possibilities and odds. Good Luck!  :Smile:

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## somdballs

http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/honey-bee/  does she look like that?

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## boots01

> http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/honey-bee/  does she look like that?


Yes! Maybe just a little darker but not much!


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## boots01

> http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/honey-bee/  does she look like that?


She has a little more tan to her color and a little less yellow but it's really hard to tell in pictures 


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## Solarsoldier001

She may not be OG (orange ghost) which is another hypo. She could be just ghost.  Mine that I produced last year was orange ghost. 

This baby is an honey bee. Yours looks like a ghost just not the orange ghost line. 


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## Eric Alan

> She may not be OG (orange ghost) which is another hypo. She could be just ghost. ... Yours looks like a ghost just not the orange ghost line.


Huh? A Ghost is a two gene animal (Axanthic/Hypo).

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## Solarsoldier001

> Huh? A Ghost is a two gene animal (Axanthic/Hypo).


http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...he-ghost-lines

There are a lot of different lines of ghost 


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## Eric Alan

> http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...he-ghost-lines
> 
> There are a lot of different lines of ghost 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You're right - there are several different lines of Hypo.  :Wink:

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## boots01

> She may not be OG (orange ghost) which is another hypo. She could be just ghost.  Mine that I produced last year was orange ghost. 
> 
> This baby is an honey bee. Yours looks like a ghost just not the orange ghost line. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


She looks just like that! Just a smidge darker!


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## boots01

I think she's either a honey bee or a ghost spider 


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## Eric Alan

> I think she's either a honey bee or a ghost spider


Which are exactly the same two gene animals.  :Razz: 

Honey Bee = Ghost Spider = Hypo Spider

EDIT: We just had this exact same conversation earlier this week (see here: honey bee vs ghost spider).  :Good Job:

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PitOnTheProwl (09-19-2015)

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## boots01

> Which are exactly the same two gene animals. 
> 
> Honey Bee = Ghost Spider = Hypo Spider
> 
> EDIT: We just had this exact same conversation earlier this week (see here: honey bee vs ghost spider).


Oh goodness. I'll get this whole thing eventually lol genetics aren't my strong suit! I was told she was a bumble bee but I was looking at pictures and there's no way she is one. At least I'm figuring out what she is so I can research it  :Smile:  
Thank you!!


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## boots01

What does the "het " mean after the name?




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## Eric Alan

> What does the "het " mean after the name?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hypo is a recessive gene. It means in order to see it visually in the offspring, both parents need to be carrying the gene and they both need to pass it along in the pairing.

"Het" means they are carrying the recessive gene (and could pass it along to their offspring), but you wouldn't be able to see it visually.

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## locolobito

Mike at porterspythons.com help me a lot on the issue

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## OhhWatALoser

> 





> 


Are you sure you are not seeing what you want to see? I mean look at these picture together there is a huge difference between them and one is actually your snake.. The honeybee pattern is washed almost gray. I think it would be hard for even the worst camera to turn the pattern black. I'm not seeing hypo in these pics at all. The bathroom picture color of looked like it, but obviously the warm white bulbs are distorting the color and the pattern is still pretty black. Hypo is short for hypomelanistic which is a reduction in black.

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_Eric Alan_ (09-19-2015),Megg (09-20-2015)

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## boots01

> Are you sure you are not seeing what you want to see? I mean look at these picture together there is a huge difference between them and one is actually your snake.. The honeybee pattern is washed almost gray. I think it would be hard for even the worst camera to turn the pattern black. I'm not seeing hypo in these pics at all. The bathroom picture color of looked like it, but obviously the warm white bulbs are distorting the color and the pattern is still pretty black. Hypo is short for hypomelanistic which is a reduction in black.


I honestly don't even know what I want to see... I think she's beautiful, no matter what she is. I am more just wondering what she is cause she looks nothing like the bumble bee. She's allot lighter than that picture shows. I really can't get a good picture of her. I will see if I can find some expert in the Charleston area in wv and see what they think. Maybe I when I think of black I think of black. She's  pretty brown to me but who knows! I know nothing lol just trying to educate myself so I don't sound like a dumbie when I talk about them


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somdballs (09-20-2015)

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## boots01

> Mike at porterspythons.com help me a lot on the issue
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk


Thanks!!


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## duckschainsaw

Definitely a spidery type of morph, but not a bumble bee. This is a bumble bee. Your girl is pretty though.

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## OhhWatALoser

If there is something there, I would lean more toward fire over hypo. Fire tends to keep the black better. We can say with 100% certainty it is a spider, perhaps there is something else there, but without accurate photo its hard to make that call. You won't feel like a dummy when you say its a spider and i'm sure you will get compliments on how nice it looks for a spider.

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## boots01

> Definitely a spidery type of morph, but not a bumble bee. This is a bumble bee. Your girl is pretty though.


Yeah, she looks nothing like that! At least I've narrowed that part done  :Smile:  her lines aren't that dark

Yours is beautiful!


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## boots01

> If there is something there, I would lean more toward fire over hypo. Fire tends to keep the black better. We can say with 100% certainty it is a spider, perhaps there is something else there, but without accurate photo its hard to make that call. You won't feel like a dummy when you say its a spider and i'm sure you will get compliments on how nice it looks for a spider.


I'll look at fire pictures  :Smile:  I haven't heard of that type. 
Would natural daylight help with pictures? I don't have the lights someone had mentioned for pictures. The pictures of her in her bathroom are most like her. 


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## boots01

> If there is something there, I would lean more toward fire over hypo. Fire tends to keep the black better. We can say with 100% certainty it is a spider, perhaps there is something else there, but without accurate photo its hard to make that call. You won't feel like a dummy when you say its a spider and i'm sure you will get compliments on how nice it looks for a spider.


Thanks for the help!


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## Solarsoldier001

> Are you sure you are not seeing what you want to see? I mean look at these picture together there is a huge difference between them and one is actually your snake.. The honeybee pattern is washed almost gray. I think it would be hard for even the worst camera to turn the pattern black. I'm not seeing hypo in these pics at all. The bathroom picture color of looked like it, but obviously the warm white bulbs are distorting the color and the pattern is still pretty black. Hypo is short for hypomelanistic which is a reduction in black.


Not saying I'm prefect at making ids but the pairing was het to het and the honey bee got lighter and lighter after ever shed and more purple orange with every shed. 

My hypo when born. 




My normal spider when born



Hypo

Normal 



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## boots01

> Not saying I'm prefect at making ids but the pairing was het to het and the honey bee got lighter and lighter after ever shed and more purple orange with every shed. 
> 
> My hypo when born. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My normal spider when born
> 
> ...




This! But a little darker. I think she's 2 but my friend was wrong about what morph she is so I'm not 100% sure her age or how many times she's shed


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## gameonpython

I'm voting that your snake is just a nice light spider. 


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## boots01

> I'm voting that your snake is just a nice light spider. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I think I could see that... She's def not an easy one. I'm hoping to find a "professional" to take her to!


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_locolobito_ (09-20-2015)

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## Eric Alan

> Not saying I'm prefect at making ids but the pairing was het to het and the honey bee got lighter and lighter after ever shed and more purple orange with every shed. 
> 
> My hypo when born. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My normal spider when born
> 
> ...


I'm pretty sure he was talking about the OP's animal - not yours.  :Wink:

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OhhWatALoser (09-20-2015),_Solarsoldier001_ (09-20-2015)

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## gameonpython

> I think I could see that... She's def not an easy one. I'm hoping to find a "professional" to take her to!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, morphs can be very tricky, especially when you have no background information on them. I still am clueless as to what my supposedly pastel is! As far as finding a professional, I would ask multiple ball python breeders, or go to a reptile expo and ask around what people think she is. Everyone sees a snake a little differently, so it's best to get multiple opinions. Were you planning on breeding her? If not, I wouldn't worry too much on figuring out her morph. It can prove to be almost impossible in some cases. If you do plan on breeding, then you can figure out what she is depending on the babies she produces. Good luck!


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## OhhWatALoser

> I'm pretty sure he was talking about the OP's animal - not yours.


Exactly, I was just using the picture to put the OP animal next to one that is obviously a honeybee.

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_Solarsoldier001_ (09-20-2015)

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## wolfy-hound

I would say it's a light colored spider. Each morph has quite a bit of variation for the individuals.

The "het" is before the name, also, not after the name. To make sure it's clear for you, when you saw "Cinnamon Het Ghost", the "het" goes with the "Ghost" not with the "Cinnamon". So the het is before the trait, not after the trait? It's always "het ghost" or "het albino" when it's written out like that. BUT, when snake folks are talking, sometimes they refer to a snake carrying ghost or albino as a "het" so sometimes "het" is used as an adjective, and sometimes it's a noun. 

Het ghost would also mean that the animal carries the ghost gene BUT looks normal. It doesn't show any sign of the ghost, because it just carries the trait and it's offspring might get that gene too. So that Cinnamon Het Ghost would look like a regular cinnamon.

It's a lot of fun when you're just learning about all these different morphs and pretty confusing too. The widgets on the websites that let you put in different animals to see what you could produce are a lot of fun. Breeding is a lot of work and money too though.

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_Eric Alan_ (09-20-2015),Megg (09-20-2015)

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## boots01

> I would say it's a light colored spider. Each morph has quite a bit of variation for the individuals.
> 
> The "het" is before the name, also, not after the name. To make sure it's clear for you, when you saw "Cinnamon Het Ghost", the "het" goes with the "Ghost" not with the "Cinnamon". So the het is before the trait, not after the trait? It's always "het ghost" or "het albino" when it's written out like that. BUT, when snake folks are talking, sometimes they refer to a snake carrying ghost or albino as a "het" so sometimes "het" is used as an adjective, and sometimes it's a noun. 
> 
> Het ghost would also mean that the animal carries the ghost gene BUT looks normal. It doesn't show any sign of the ghost, because it just carries the trait and it's offspring might get that gene too. So that Cinnamon Het Ghost would look like a regular cinnamon.
> 
> It's a lot of fun when you're just learning about all these different morphs and pretty confusing too. The widgets on the websites that let you put in different animals to see what you could produce are a lot of fun. Breeding is a lot of work and money too though.


I think that makes sense! I'll just need to read it like 70 times then read about 300 more articles on it lol genetics aren't my strong point.....

What does lesser mean? The male is SuppoSedly a cinnamon lesser. 


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## OhhWatALoser

lesser is a morph, short for lesser platinum.

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## boots01

> Yes, morphs can be very tricky, especially when you have no background information on them. I still am clueless as to what my supposedly pastel is! As far as finding a professional, I would ask multiple ball python breeders, or go to a reptile expo and ask around what people think she is. Everyone sees a snake a little differently, so it's best to get multiple opinions. Were you planning on breeding her? If not, I wouldn't worry too much on figuring out her morph. It can prove to be almost impossible in some cases. If you do plan on breeding, then you can figure out what she is depending on the babies she produces. Good luck!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I'm hoping to find an expo! 

I would like to breed her but I don't have to. I have a lesser cinnamon male that I think is gorgeous but I'm biased :Wink: 


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## boots01

> lesser is a morph, short for lesser platinum.


Good grief. Okay thank you! Guess I'll be looking into that too. 


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## somdballs

> I think that makes sense! I'll just need to read it like 70 times then read about 300 more articles on it lol genetics aren't my strong point.....
> 
> What does lesser mean? The male is SuppoSedly a cinnamon lesser. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




the best way i started learning genetics was watching youtube videos of people explaining genetics and there categories like Dominant, Co-Dominant & Recessive also the snakebytestv by Brian Barcyzk from BHB helps break it down has episodes of all things snake. and several on genetics made simple. https://youtu.be/9m3dUUSCnCQ here is one to help you get started if you want to learn more about genetics. 1 of many i've watched and many articles i read and the help of users here on BP.net

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## boots01

> the best way i started learning genetics was watching youtube videos of people explaining genetics and there categories like Dominant, Co-Dominant & Recessive also the snakebytestv by Brian Barcyzk from BHB helps break it down has episodes of all things snake. and several on genetics made simple. https://youtu.be/9m3dUUSCnCQ here is one to help you get started if you want to learn more about genetics. 1 of many i've watched and many articles i read and the help of users here on BP.net


Thank you very much!!!!


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## wolfy-hound

Yes, so your Lesser Cinnamon is a snake that is both a lesser and a cinnamon in the same snake.

If you've seen a albino piebald, then you see a snake that is both albino and a piebald. So it's orange/white AND has the white patches.

The neat thing is that Spider, Lesser and Cinnamon are ALL dominant traits, so if you did breed them together, the babies can come out with spider, lesser and/or cinnamon traits. The ghost trait is recessive, so even if it IS a ghost spider, none of the babies will show any sign that it is a ghost carrier. Both parents would have to have the ghost trait in order for a baby to "inherit" it and show it.

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## boots01

> Yes, so your Lesser Cinnamon is a snake that is both a lesser and a cinnamon in the same snake.
> 
> If you've seen a albino piebald, then you see a snake that is both albino and a piebald. So it's orange/white AND has the white patches.
> 
> The neat thing is that Spider, Lesser and Cinnamon are ALL dominant traits, so if you did breed them together, the babies can come out with spider, lesser and/or cinnamon traits. The ghost trait is recessive, so even if it IS a ghost spider, none of the babies will show any sign that it is a ghost carrier. Both parents would have to have the ghost trait in order for a baby to "inherit" it and show it.


I think I'm starting to get it. Thank you!!! So the two names means they have two different things. So I have to breed her to a ghost to see if she's a ghost or just a spider. Another reason to buy another snake eventually  :Wink:  suggestions on that type?

That could be a cool batch! We'll find out next year probably cause I'm not ready and she's not either


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## wolfy-hound

Because there's different family lines of the ghost gene, it would be best to find out which one before figuring to breed her. It would be nice if the person you got her from could verify her genetics.

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## boots01

> Because there's different family lines of the ghost gene, it would be best to find out which one before figuring to breed her. It would be nice if the person you got her from could verify her genetics.


I can't track them down:/ my friend got her from repticon. I was hoping she'd remember but she's useless. She still thinks she's a bumble bee


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## Rorschach

Everyone talks about breeding when they get their first ball. I'd just focus on showing this one attention and providing great care before trying to balance out adding another to the mix and caring for hatchlings. A lot can go wrong with egg binding and during the incubation period. There is a lot to think about before bring new life into the world, especially if you lose interest rather quickly. It's a new snake, it's fun, and exciting. Make sure it stays that way and maintains proper health.

Keep your temps and humidity right, and maintain a good feeding schedule. Like I said, a lot can go wrong rather quickly

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## boots01

> Everyone talks about breeding when they get their first ball. I'd just focus on showing this one attention and providing great care before trying to balance out adding another to the mix and caring for hatchlings. A lot can go wrong with egg binding and during the incubation period. There is a lot to think about before bring new life into the world, especially if you lose interest rather quickly. It's a new snake, it's fun, and exciting. Make sure it stays that way and maintains proper health.
> 
> Keep your temps and humidity right, and maintain a good feeding schedule. Like I said, a lot can go wrong rather quickly


That's why I won't do it for over a year  :Smile:  if I do it. I know I'll want more but I might want to cruise craigslist for ones that need homes vs breeding or spending allot on them (even though theres already a few patterns I really want  :Wink: 


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## FCP, LLC

Looks a lot like a Black Widow (Pastel, Black Pastel, Spider). Maybe???

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## boots01

> Looks a lot like a Black Widow (Pastel, Black Pastel, Spider). Maybe???


That's one no one has mentioned yet. I'll look :Smile: 


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## boots01

> Looks a lot like a Black Widow (Pastel, Black Pastel, Spider). Maybe???


I dony think so. She's not that creamy colored


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## wolfy-hound

Yeah, you're doing things right. Looking at all the possibilities for the future IS fun but holding off until you're ready for more is the smart way to go.

But in the meantime, you're still learning all the cool stuff. Who knows, you may discover a morph/combo that you really like and end up buying it instead of breeding. It's certainly less work and less heartache when things go wrong.

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## boots01

> Yeah, you're doing things right. Looking at all the possibilities for the future IS fun but holding off until you're ready for more is the smart way to go.
> 
> But in the meantime, you're still learning all the cool stuff. Who knows, you may discover a morph/combo that you really like and end up buying it instead of breeding. It's certainly less work and less heartache when things go wrong.


Snakes are different than horses but I've owned them my whole life so I understand the life time commitment you're supposed to have for an animal. And I've seen the aftermath of abuse and auction houses. I would be heart broken if I found out my babies got abused. I would probably fall in love and keep all the babies or give them to family lol 

I've seen a few I want! Like the lithium and the queen bee looks pretty! And I saw something about a blue ghost. 


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