# Other Pythons > General Pythons >  White-lipped python

## Awesomethepossum

I was just wondering if anyone else on this forum has experience with this species. I just got this guy last week from JS Reptiles. He's a CH Northern (Sorong locality), estimated to be between 1-2 years old.

I have him in a large tub for now. Humidity is around 80-85% without misting. Basking temp is about 93, warm side is in the high 80s, cool side at around 79. Paper towels on one side, and some Reptichip on the other with a hide so he can feel secure. It's my attempt at a quarantine tub. 



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Bodie (06-03-2020),*Bogertophis* (06-02-2020),_L.West_ (06-12-2020),_Phillydubs_ (06-02-2020),Reptile$ 4 Life (06-02-2020)

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## Reptile$ 4 Life

I have no experience with them but they sure are gorgeous.

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_Awesomethepossum_ (06-02-2020)

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## jmcrook

They talk about white lipped pythons a lot on Morelia Python Radio as Owen, one of the hosts, has kept them for a while. Did a search and heres three episodes for sure that cover them. Seems they can be a pretty challenging/advanced species from what I can gather. Very interesting though.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcas...=1000362561890

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcas...=1000375022584

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcas...=1000410440183


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_Awesomethepossum_ (06-02-2020),*Bogertophis* (06-02-2020),Craiga 01453 (07-07-2020)

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## Awesomethepossum

> They talk about white lipped pythons a lot on Morelia Python Radio as Owen, one of the hosts, has kept them for a while. Did a search and heres three episodes for sure that cover them. Seems they can be a pretty challenging/advanced species from what I can gather. Very interesting though.
> 
> https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcas...=1000362561890
> 
> https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcas...=1000375022584
> 
> https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcas...=1000410440183
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'll be looking into these when I get out of work for sure. Thank you very much!

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_jmcrook_ (06-02-2020)

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## Phillydubs

You got yourself a stunner! 

I keep one myself and I think your params sound ok. Id drop the hot spot to about 90 and my guy seems to prefer the cool side and I keep the cool
side mid 70. 

they can have bad sheds so def keep the humidity up there during  shed time but doesnt have to be 80s all the time. 

what is the attitude like in yours ?

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_Awesomethepossum_ (06-02-2020)

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## Awesomethepossum

> You got yourself a stunner! 
> 
> I keep one myself and I think your params sound ok. Id drop the hot spot to about 90 and my guy seems to prefer the cool side and I keep the cool
> side mid 70. 
> 
> they can have bad sheds so def keep the humidity up there during  shed time but doesnt have to be 80s all the time. 
> 
> what is the attitude like in yours ?


I only held him briefly the day he came in the mail. He shot straight out of the bag and I had to scramble to grab him. Didn't get bit, but he was scared. The delivery guy was very rough with the package (even had it upside down...). Poor thing was stressed...but didn't musk me or try to bite. Just very flighty. He's been hiding away ever since.

I've left him alone for about a week now. I don't know when he'll be ready to eat for me, but I wanted to make sure he was doing so before I started handling him. 

How long do you think I should expect to wait before he's interested in eating?

(And thank you for you kind words. I'm very excited to have him!)

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## Reptile$ 4 Life

Please feel free to post lots of pictures!

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LyraIsGray (06-03-2020)

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## jmcrook

Listening to the MPR episode with Ryan Young about white lipped pythons. VERY informative and thorough and worth a listen if you havent yet 


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## Team Slytherin

Oh man, those Sorongs are gorgeous! I, too, will be interested in his temperament once hes settled. They can be feisty, but beautiful for sure! Congrats on an awesome pickup.

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_Awesomethepossum_ (06-04-2020)

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## Awesomethepossum

> Listening to the MPR episode with Ryan Young about white lipped pythons. VERY informative and thorough and worth a listen if you havent yet 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I did start listening to that one but didn't get too far yet (work-related chaos).  If it's slower today I'll be finishing it then. I'm really looking forward to it.

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## Awesomethepossum

> Please feel free to post lots of pictures!


A quick check-in before work.He wasn't impressed 

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Craiga 01453 (07-07-2020),_EL-Ziggy_ (06-04-2020)

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## EL-Ziggy

Awesome critter mate. I've always found them intriguing and I'm very interested in watching his progression. Please keep us posted. I may have to move those WLPs up on my potential next critter list.  :Cool:

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_Awesomethepossum_ (06-04-2020)

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## Reptile$ 4 Life

Looks like someone woke up on the wrong side of the hide.  :ROFL:

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_Awesomethepossum_ (06-04-2020)

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## jmcrook

Found this very informative write up as well.
Very cool species but likely a little too high strung for my tastes
https://www.coldbloodcreations.com/c...pages/wlp.html


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_Awesomethepossum_ (06-04-2020)

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## Awesomethepossum

> Awesome critter mate. I've always found them intriguing and I'm very interested in watching his progression. Please keep us posted. I may have to move those WLPs up on my potential next critter list.


I've wanted one for a while now. I have three ball pythons and a KSB. Wanted to step it up a bit. (I'm also on a wait-list for a BRB, but I may save my spot for another year.)

I'm not sure exactly how old he is, but was told he was captive hatched. Seller estimated him to be between 1-2 years of age, and approximately 2 - 2.5 feet in length. 

It's been a week, but he isn't too keen on me checking in on him (I accept that this may never change). I offered a small f/t rat pup last night while he was hiding away. He got scared, made a few little noises, then thrashed about before giving it one defensive strike. I left it in with him overnight and it was still there this morning.

I'll definitely post updates on his progression. Hopefully he starts eating for me soon. 



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## Awesomethepossum

> Found this very informative write up as well.
> Very cool species but likely a little too high strung for my tastes
> https://www.coldbloodcreations.com/c...pages/wlp.html
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thank you for sharing the link 

Definitely skittish. I heard it's typical for juveniles to be this way, and that they can mellow out with age.. I hope to work with him once he starts eating for me consistently.

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## EL-Ziggy

Hang in there. They all eat eventually  :Smile:  . I've heard they cough up for balls. Is that true?

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## Awesomethepossum

> Hang in there. They all eat eventually  . I've heard they cough up for balls. Is that true?


They do. A couple days or so after eating. I think the regularity of this happening varies, but it's common.

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## Awesomethepossum

Just an update (I posted this picture in another thread already, but I'll get new ones once he settles more):

Now that a week has passed since I got him, it seems like he's finally acclimating. I went to check on him last night, and he was perched up in his tree. He didn't bolt when he saw me, either. 

Just for the hell of it, I offered him a f/t rat pup (scented with a chick) with tongs. He struck it numerous times, but didn't take it. I figured these were defensive strikes, so I left it in there with him while he did his own thing. It was still there this morning. I'm going to give him more time before offering again.

He did go to the bathroom last night and his stool was fairly small. Urates had a green tinge to them as well. I'm assuming stomach bile from not eating, combined with stress.

Because he was captive hatched and imported, I'd like to get a fecal done for him. I want to handle him as little as possible until he starts eating, but moving forward, I'll be weighing him regularly. I also lowered the temperatures a tad as suggested.

I'm still doing more research as I go. I have a 4'×2'×17" PVC ordered that will hopefully be coming in within the next couple months. Fingers crossed.


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cincy (06-12-2020),Craiga 01453 (07-07-2020),_EL-Ziggy_ (06-07-2020)

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## Reptile$ 4 Life

Hopefully he eats for you soon. Keep updating us. I can't get enough of this little dude.

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## Phillydubs

Have you talked to the seller? What was he eating for them and how often? I wouldnt offer food too often. Once a week and try a smaller prey item as not to scare him. 

is he surely captive bred? There seems to be few of those. If so you are lucky. A lot of farm bred captives which to me is just a marketing phrase. 

Are you using a hook to approach? You will want to this animal is by far my most electric and I have a few that youd say really more so than x and yes really. 

thankfully my guy has always had an appetite unless in shed. Have you tried to soak him? Some warm water and I actually mix in the plain pedialyte. It may help him pass anything and hydrate. 

They are not known to be the friendliest snake and usually get a bad rap. My guy runs, musks and will sometimes strike the hook once out and I let him run through my hands a few times hes really not too bad. Hes never stuck at me but he does spook easy and flail a bit. 

get a hook going and see how he does w the adjusted temps and a soak. Then offer some smaller food items and see how he does after you ask the former guy what he was feeding

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## Awesomethepossum

> Have you talked to the seller? What was he eating for them and how often? I wouldnt offer food too often. Once a week and try a smaller prey item as not to scare him. 
> 
> is he surely captive bred? There seems to be few of those. If so you are lucky. A lot of farm bred captives which to me is just a marketing phrase. 
> 
> Are you using a hook to approach? You will want to this animal is by far my most electric and I have a few that youd say really more so than x and yes really. 
> 
> thankfully my guy has always had an appetite unless in shed. Have you tried to soak him? Some warm water and I actually mix in the plain pedialyte. It may help him pass anything and hydrate. 
> 
> They are not known to be the friendliest snake and usually get a bad rap. My guy runs, musks and will sometimes strike the hook once out and I let him run through my hands a few times hes really not too bad. Hes never stuck at me but he does spook easy and flail a bit. 
> ...


He isn't captive bred, but captive hatched. I had asked around to known breeders in search of CB, but of course, no availability.  I got this one from JS Reptiles. A CH import from Indonesia. 

I asked the seller what he was eating. I was told to offer either f/t or live adult mice or rat pups. 

I haven't handled him since I put him in his tub (to allow him to de-stress). Happy to say that he didn't bite or mess on me when I held him that day, but I was very gentle with him. He just wanted to GO  But I do have a hook, since I have other snakes. Just never needed to use it, but I know I will with this guy. 

If needed, I'll do a soak if that'll help, or get him a live rodent. My other kids eat f/t rats, but whatever he'll take. I also have f/t chicks as well (quail and chicken). I'm not actually sure when the last time he ate was, but he is in good body condition, based on appearance. When I offer prey items, it's at night, in the dark, and ideally in a manner that he cannot see me. His tub is also covered partly in a blanket (to provide extra security, but to also allow for a day/night cycle). As little disturbance as possible

Maybe he just needs more time? 

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_jmcrook_ (06-08-2020)

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## jmcrook

How long since youve had him? Id maybe wait him out and leave him alone for a little bit and try f/t again. Then live and/or avian prey if youve already got chicks on hand, or maybe scent a rodent with a chick when thawing. Ive heard stories of older WC animals that would only eat birds, I think thats mentioned in one of the podcasts I sent. Best of luck


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## Team Slytherin

Joe Switalski always has great looking animals. Youre in for a fun challenge.

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_Awesomethepossum_ (06-09-2020)

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## Awesomethepossum

> How long since youve had him? Id maybe wait him out and leave him alone for a little bit and try f/t again. Then live and/or avian prey if youve already got chicks on hand, or maybe scent a rodent with a chick when thawing. Ive heard stories of older WC animals that would only eat birds, I think thats mentioned in one of the podcasts I sent. Best of luck
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thank you. He came in on May 27th, so it'll be 2 weeks tomorrow. I'm one of those people that usually buys from local breeders and wants to know everything before a purchase, so this is uncharted territory for me. In multiple ways  

I scented the first rat I offered (thawed it with a chick) after waiting a week. He freaked out from under his hide, and I heard him making disapproving huffing noises....So I backed off.  

I'll keep an eye on his weight and try it again in a week. If it doesn't take, I'll buy a live rodent and see if that works

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## EL-Ziggy

If the snake was eating f/t before I wouldn't resort to a live prey item yet. Keep offering f/t food every 10-14 days until he eats. I wouldn't try live until he gets to 3 or 4 months without eating.

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_Awesomethepossum_ (06-09-2020)

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## Skyrivers

> A quick check-in before work.He wasn't impressed 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk



No experience with them but just wanted to say gratz on such a beautiful animal you have there.

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_Awesomethepossum_ (06-09-2020)

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## Awesomethepossum

Not the best picture, but I decided to hold him today, and this is how I was greeted. It didn't improve much from there  

He saw the snake hook and started striking it, then made his move and shot straight up out of the tub. When I grabbed him to prevent this, he took a moment to process what was going on, and musked me. 

I had a cat glove on one hand just for personal reassurance, since I assumed this would happen and was nervous.

When he realized he wasn't going anywhere, he stopped fighting my hold, struck the glove 2-3 times, then redirected these efforts to my face (of course).

He maintained this focus (defensive, striking pose, tracking my movements) until I put him back in his tub, and when I did, he started rattling his tail.


My impression? A lot stronger and faster than I expected.Definitely more intense than a ball python  
I do wonder if this will improve with time or not. 



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Reptile$ 4 Life (06-09-2020)

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## Reptile$ 4 Life

> Not the best picture, but I decided to hold him today, and this is how I was greeted. It didn't improve much from there  
> 
> He saw the snake hook and started striking it, then made his move and shot straight up out of the tub. When I grabbed him to prevent this, he took a moment to process what was going on, and musked me. 
> 
> I had a cat glove on one hand just for personal reassurance, since I assumed this would happen and was nervous.
> 
> When he realized he wasn't going anywhere, he stopped fighting my hold, struck the glove 2-3 times, then redirected these efforts to my face (of course).
> 
> He maintained this focus (defensive, striking pose) until I put him back in his tub, and when I did, he started rattling his tail.
> ...


Wow! Sounds like you had quite the adventure with him. Hopefully he calms down for you but only time will tell. At least you have such a gorgeous animal.

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_Awesomethepossum_ (06-09-2020)

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## Skyrivers

What an adventure! Best wishes as he ages. My blood is my challenging one right now. 




> Not the best picture, but I decided to hold him today, and this is how I was greeted. It didn't improve much from there  
> 
> He saw the snake hook and started striking it, then made his move and shot straight up out of the tub. When I grabbed him to prevent this, he took a moment to process what was going on, and musked me. 
> 
> I had a cat glove on one hand just for personal reassurance, since I assumed this would happen and was nervous.
> 
> When he realized he wasn't going anywhere, he stopped fighting my hold, struck the glove 2-3 times, then redirected these efforts to my face (of course).
> 
> He maintained this focus (defensive, striking pose, tracking my movements) until I put him back in his tub, and when I did, he started rattling his tail.
> ...

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## bcr229

> He isn't captive bred, but captive hatched. I had asked around to known breeders in search of CB, but of course, no availability.  I got this one from JS Reptiles. A CH import from Indonesia.


How recently was he imported?

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## wnateg

> How long since you’ve had him? I’d maybe wait him out and leave him alone for a little bit and try f/t again. Then live and/or avian prey if you’ve already got chicks on hand, or maybe scent a rodent with a chick when thawing. I’ve heard stories of older WC animals that would only eat birds, I think that’s mentioned in one of the podcasts I sent. Best of luck
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



^ agreed

I have a few WC snakes. Some needed chicks/quail to start eating. You might need to leave it overnight and not move around the enclosure at all.

Instead of scenting, after he's been eating more reliably, offer a chick/quail then offer a rat (or if you need to leave them overnight, leave both). Then switch to just rats after a successful times. That has worked for me.

In my experience, you may need to switch back to chicks/quail at times to get them feeding again, and it'll restart the process over. Maybe you could starve them out, but chicks/quail aren't too hard to find, so it doesn't bother me.

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_Awesomethepossum_ (06-10-2020)

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## Awesomethepossum

> How recently was he imported?


I'm not 100% sure, to be honest.

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## Awesomethepossum

> ^ agreed
> 
> I have a few WC snakes. Some needed chicks/quail to start eating. You might need to leave it overnight and not move around the enclosure at all.
> 
> Instead of scenting, after he's been eating more reliably, offer a chick/quail then offer a rat (or if you need to leave them overnight, leave both). Then switch to just rats after a successful times. That has worked for me.
> 
> In my experience, you may need to switch back to chicks/quail at times to get them feeding again, and it'll restart the process over. Maybe you could starve them out, but chicks/quail aren't too hard to find, so it doesn't bother me.


I have 1-day old chickens and button quail chicks. Not sure if the former would be too large for him. Did your snakes take some time as well before accepting food? 



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## wnateg

> I have 1-day old chickens and button quail chicks. Not sure if the former would be too large for him. Did your snakes take some time as well before accepting food? 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


Day old chicks would not be too big.

No, once I offered birds (after a few failed rat attempts), they started eating.

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_Awesomethepossum_ (06-10-2020)

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## Awesomethepossum

> Day old chicks would not be too big.
> 
> No, once I offered birds (after a few failed rat attempts), they started eating.


Okay, perfect. Yeah, I wasn't sure. I haven't gotten a weight on him yet, but he's about 2-2.5 feet long.

It's only been 2 weeks that I've had him, as of today. And I have plenty of chicks stocked in my freezer. Whatever works

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## Awesomethepossum

I decided to name him Jekyll. I'd say it's appropriate.

Can't wait until I can get some better pictures of him.

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*Bogertophis* (06-12-2020),_EL-Ziggy_ (06-12-2020)

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## Bogertophis

Great name!   :Very Happy:

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## Reptile$ 4 Life

Nice name  :Good Job:

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## EL-Ziggy

I like his name too. He's stunning. I almost named my scrub Hyde but went with Kluass  :Smile: . I wouldn't change anything if it's only been a couple of weeks since he's eaten. That's basically 1 or 2 refusals. If he gets to 3 months without eating then I'd try a live feeder or different prey type. You're going to want him on rats at some point soon, and he was eating them before, so why go through the fight twice? He'll eat eventually. They ALWAYS do. I'll admit that I have given stubborn feeders a prey type they prefer over rats. My Bredli, who normally eats medium rats, won't touch them after his winter fast which usually lasts 2-3 months. I'll offer him a jumbo mouse and he'll snap it right up. I'll keep offering him small or medium  rats biweekly. If he refuses twice I'll give him a jumbo mouse. I'll offer him rats again for 2-3 feedings, if he refuses 3 times I'll give him another mouse. After that I only offer rats for the next two months. He usually gets with the program during this time. If he doesn't then he can get a jumbo mouse every 2-3 months. It's his choice. My motto is, the hunger *ALWAYS* wins. All my other snakes eat anything I throw at them. I guess there's always one. Hang in there.

Edit: Or you can feed him 5 jumbo mice every 10-14 days.

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_Awesomethepossum_ (06-12-2020)

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## Reptile$ 4 Life

> I like his name too. He's stunning. I almost named my scrub Hyde but went with Kluass . I wouldn't change anything if it's only been a couple of weeks since he's eaten. That's basically 1 or 2 refusals. If he gets to 3 months without eating then I'd try a live feeder or different prey type. You're going to want him on rats at some point soon, and he was eating them before, so why go through the fight twice? He'll eat eventually. They ALWAYS do. I'll admit that I have given stubborn feeders a prey type they prefer over rats. My Bredli, who normally eats medium rats, won't touch them after his winter fast which usually lasts 2-3 months. I'll offer him a jumbo mouse and he'll snap it right up. I'll keep offering him small or medium  rats biweekly. If he refuses twice I'll give him a jumbo mouse. I'll offer him rats again for 2-3 feedings, if he refuses 3 times I'll give him another mouse. After that I only offer rats for the next two months. He usually gets with the program during this time. If he doesn't then he can get a jumbo mouse every 2-3 months. It's his choice. My motto is, the hunger *ALWAYS* wins. All my other snakes eat anything I throw at them. I guess there's always one. Hang in there.


Speaking of your Scrub and Bredli... we are getting picture this weekend, right?  :Very Happy:

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## EL-Ziggy

> Speaking of your Scrub and Bredli... we are getting picture this weekend, right?


LOL, it's funny that you should mention that. Yesterday morning I decided to take Klauss the Scrub out of his enclosure and let him stretch out on the 4x2x6 pvc jungle gym I have for the snakes that like to climb. This was a first in a couple of ways. It was the 1st time I've removed him from his cage without gloves. I always use a hook and then remove the gloves once he calms down. It was also the 1st time I've allowed him to climb to the top of the jungle gym which is right at eye level. Getting a scrub, or carpet, off of any perch can be quite a challenge. I thought it was going great until he just opened up and musked EVERYWHERE!! He never attempted to strike as I wrestled him off, and he wasn't hard to put back in his cage, which was great. I used the tshirt I was wearing to clean off the pvc and floor, threw it in the trash, and tossed my shorts and socks in the wash. Needless to say he won't be playing on the jungle gym anytime soon. He may still make this weekend's photo shoot if the weather is nice.  :Smile:

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*Bogertophis* (06-15-2020),Gio (06-12-2020)

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## wnateg

> I like his name too. He's stunning. I almost named my scrub Hyde but went with Kluass . I wouldn't change anything if it's only been a couple of weeks since he's eaten. That's basically 1 or 2 refusals. If he gets to 3 months without eating then I'd try a live feeder or different prey type. You're going to want him on rats at some point soon, and he was eating them before, so why go through the fight twice? He'll eat eventually. They ALWAYS do. I'll admit that I have given stubborn feeders a prey type they prefer over rats. My Bredli, who normally eats medium rats, won't touch them after his winter fast which usually lasts 2-3 months. I'll offer him a jumbo mouse and he'll snap it right up. I'll keep offering him small or medium  rats biweekly. If he refuses twice I'll give him a jumbo mouse. I'll offer him rats again for 2-3 feedings, if he refuses 3 times I'll give him another mouse. After that I only offer rats for the next two months. He usually gets with the program during this time. If he doesn't then he can get a jumbo mouse every 2-3 months. It's his choice. My motto is, the hunger *ALWAYS* wins. All my other snakes eat anything I throw at them. I guess there's always one. Hang in there.
> 
> Edit: Or you can feed him 5 jumbo mice every 10-14 days.


You're probably right, but there is something very relieving about getting a new snake to eat, and if it takes a bird, I wouldn't be opposed.

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## Awesomethepossum

Had a successful (but brief) handling session today, and I'm happy to say it was a complete contrast to our last one. No biting, no thrashing, no musking. He was skittish/fearful coming out with the hook, but no real defensive displays. 

I do think he's getting ready to go into shed, but I may be wrong. I'm just happy to handle my snake- and finally get some better pictures

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aurum (06-21-2020),*Bogertophis* (06-15-2020),Craiga 01453 (07-07-2020),_dakski_ (06-15-2020)

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## Phillydubs

Any update ...?

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_Awesomethepossum_ (06-23-2020)

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## Awesomethepossum

> Any update ...?


Still hasn't eaten for me.

I was going to offer tonight, but he definitely looks like he's going into shed...was definitely not in the mood to deal with me when I was checking his humidity and temps. 

Last week I offered a f/t, 1 day old chick. Waited until around 9pm, as usual. Warmed up with hair dryer (in the same room), temp gun to confirm temp, brained it, offered it to him as he hid inside his hide.  I offer the food from an angle so that he can't see me, as the hide is facing the wall. I moved it around directly outside the hide entrance, and he struck it (defensively?). Warmed it again and did the same routine, and nothing. Left it in the spot overnight, nothing. 

Temps are good, humidity is at around 85% right now. 

When I'm warming the feeders up, he definitely doesn't beg or show interest like my other snakes do. But they take food without any need for coercion. I just don't want to stress him out if his reactions are purely defensive, which they seem to be. Maybe it's my approach, or because he was getting ready to go into shed.

I do wonder if he might need a live rat fuzzy (or the like) to get him kick-started. He's still young, so I do worry about him not eating. Haven't had to offer live before, but I'll do it if it means he'll eat. But, maybe he'll have an appetite after he sheds. I guess we'll see.

(Deleted the picture because I scrolled back and saw I had already posted it. )


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*Bogertophis* (06-23-2020)

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## wnateg

I wouldn't jump to live. If he's going into shed, that'll definitely be a cause for not eating. I'd say leave him be, wait until he sheds, and try again.

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_Awesomethepossum_ (06-23-2020),_EL-Ziggy_ (06-23-2020),Reptile$ 4 Life (06-23-2020)

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## Reptile$ 4 Life

> I wouldn't jump to live. If he's going into shed, that'll definitely be a cause for not eating. I'd say leave him be, wait until he sheds, and try again.


I agree with wnateg. After a shed my bp attacks his rat like he's never eaten in his life, hopefully it's the same for Jekyll.

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_Awesomethepossum_ (06-23-2020)

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## Awesomethepossum

> I agree with wnateg. After a shed my bp attacks his rat like he's never eaten in his life, hopefully it's the same for Jekyll.


Thank you both. I get this way with each of my snakes until they eat for me for the first time. Never had one go this long, or show zero interest in eating. New-snake jitters. 

I'm hoping this is why he isn't eating. All my others become ravenous beasts after they shed. Hopefully he follows suit. 

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## Awesomethepossum

I snuck a peek. Humidity is solid, so I hope he doesn't have any difficulties. He's been in hiding the past couple of nights, and pushed the substrate out of the hide like that himself.

I'm excited to see him in his new skin.

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_EL-Ziggy_ (06-24-2020)

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## Phillydubs

What temps are you at now?

why do you brain the food? Does that mean cut it so the brains come out ?!?

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## Awesomethepossum

> What temps are you at now?
> 
> why do you brain the food? Does that mean cut it so the brains come out ?!?


I lowered the basking heat as you suggested to 89-90. Temps on hot side are 86 (ambient). The cool side is 82-83 right now, but they decrease over the course of the evening-night into the high-70s.

I figured it was worth a shot, I know I've heard mixed things about it. But basically, I put a small cut on the skull to to see if that extra scent would entice him to eat. Nothing excessive

I don't know how effective it is, maybe it varies by individual/species. I think some use this method for finicky eaters, or when transitioning over to different prey items



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## Awesomethepossum

He also just finished shedding.  There's just that teeny piece of stuck shed- the rest came off clean (you can see it wrapped around his tree).

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Craiga 01453 (07-07-2020),_EL-Ziggy_ (06-26-2020),Gio (06-26-2020),Reptile$ 4 Life (06-27-2020)

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## EL-Ziggy

It's great that he had a good shed. He looks awesome in the new skin. You can get the little stuck piece off anytime. I'd thaw a feeder out for him today or tomorrow evening and let it sit on top of his enclosure for a while. See if he starts sniffing and moving towards it. Super heat it to about 100F with a hairdryer and serve it hot. Hopefully he's over his hunger strike and ready to eat. It's just a matter of time.

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## Awesomethepossum

> It's great that he had a good shed. He looks awesome in the new skin. You can get the little stuck piece off anytime. I'd thaw a feeder out for him today or tomorrow evening and let it sit on top of his enclosure for a while. See if he starts sniffing and moving towards it. Super heat it to about 100F with a hairdryer and serve it hot. Hopefully he's over his hunger strike and ready to eat. It's just a matter of time.


Thawed a rat pup and a chick together in the room. Didn't take long before all of my other snakes were going nuts (my Budgett's frog included, but he's a dump truck). This snake didn't even budge from his hide to take a peek

I used the blow dryer to warm up both feeders and get their scents in the air. Tried offering, didn't seem to illicit a reaction, not even a defensive strike when I poked the feeder around a tad inside the hide. He wasn't having it

I just left the rat pup at the hide entrance and fed the chick off. I guess we'll see  

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## Gio

> He also just finished shedding.  There's just that teeny piece of stuck shed- the rest came off clean (you can see it wrapped around his tree).
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


Looking superb !!

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_Awesomethepossum_ (06-26-2020)

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## Awesomethepossum

Took Jekyll out for a little bit this morning, and he was an angel. I rubbed that bit of stuck shed off as well. He's so shiny now!

He has definitely mellowed down tremendously over the course of a month, even despite very irregular handling. He has an inquisitive, calm demeanor now...not frantic and fear-aggressive like it was previously (thank god). While initially he doesn't want to sit still, he calms down quickly and settles himself. 

Basically, his name doesnt suit him anymore  

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_richardhind1972_ (07-07-2020)

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## Reptile$ 4 Life

Wow he's stunning!

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_Awesomethepossum_ (06-28-2020)

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## Awesomethepossum

So, Jekyll finally ate last night! I left a small assortment of f/t prey items (a rat pup, a small hamster and a quail chick) in his tub overnight. He tossed the hamster into his water dish and chose the quail 



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_EL-Ziggy_ (07-07-2020),_richardhind1972_ (07-07-2020),_wnateg_ (07-07-2020)

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## richardhind1972

Glad he ate for you, stunning 

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## Craiga 01453

> I lowered the basking heat as you suggested to 89-90. Temps on hot side are 86 (ambient). The cool side is 82-83 right now, but they decrease over the course of the evening-night into the high-70s.
> 
> I figured it was worth a shot, I know I've heard mixed things about it. But basically, I put a small cut on the skull to to see if that extra scent would entice him to eat. Nothing excessive
> 
> I don't know how effective it is, maybe it varies by individual/species. I think some use this method for finicky eaters, or when transitioning over to different prey items
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk



Just wanted to chime in and say that in all my years in this hobby I literally heard of braining working ONE time and it was just recently. 

I always suggest being consistent when offering. Feeding the same prey the snake was eating before coming to you in the same method is typically what gets them started. 

Gorgeous WLP by the way. I've been casually looking for a CBB for a bit. I'm running out of room, but a WLP is definitely on the short list

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_Awesomethepossum_ (07-07-2020),_EL-Ziggy_ (07-07-2020)

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## Awesomethepossum

> Just wanted to chime in and say that in all my years in this hobby I literally heard of braining working ONE time and it was just recently. 
> 
> I always suggest being consistent when offering. Feeding the same prey the snake was eating before coming to you in the same method is typically what gets them started. 
> 
> Gorgeous WLP by the way. I've been casually looking for a CBB for a bit. I'm running out of room, but a WLP is definitely on the short list


I personally didn't think braining would work, but it was worth a shot. And thank you!

I didn't get specific info in regards to his feeding. To be fair, I believe this is because he was likely freshly imported (Joe was kind enough to reach out to me personally as soon as he got WLPs in and were available for sale). I was told mice or rats. Live, f/t or p/k. 

It's the first time I've ever gotten an imported animal. But I do typically ask for every bit of info available on the individual. I would have loved to get a CBB, but I hadn't seen any available (or they got nabbed fast) and I got impatient  

He was a reasonable price. No mites or infections, healthy body weight, no scars, and good temperament (once he acclimated). I still want to get a fecal done for him, but all things considered, I'm pleased



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*Bogertophis* (07-09-2020),Craiga 01453 (07-07-2020)

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## Awesomethepossum

I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask, or if anyone knows the answer to this..but I've heard that Indonesia may be placing heavier restrictions on animal exports in the near future. Has anyone heard anything of this? 

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## Awesomethepossum

In regards to that previous question, it was apparently an unverified rumor. Was just wondering if it would have affected WLP importations. Disregard ...


Anyway, just a mini update- I waited a few days after his successful feeding earlier this week, and left Jekyll 2 x-small quail and 1 x-small hamster last night on top of his hide. I checked this morning, and the hamster was gone and he left the quail untouched. 

Apparently, he prefers it when I leave the feeders on top of his hide. I've left quail and previously offered feeders directly in front of his hide without success. Not sure if they're typically that particular, but  whatever works.

The night after his first feeding, he did excrete some fecal matter, but it was a very minute amount and very loose. A friend who frequently buys imports suggested that it might not have been from his feeding with me, and to wait for his second poo, as that one may be like that because of the stress/being off food for a while.

I'm going to start offering him smaller prey items twice a week. I don't know how fast these guys grow when they're young, but as time goes by, I hope he becomes more confident about taking food.

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## Awesomethepossum

Update:

I finally got tagged today 

I haven't held Jekyll in a couple of weeks and needed to take him out to spot clean. He was in a mood (already musking/peeing when I lifted the hide up) so I put my cat glove on. Got him out with the hook, then he went up past the arm covering...and grabbed my elbow. 

(Took this picture right after he realized biting me wouldn't give the desired effect. So happy that I finally got a picture that fully captured his iridescence/colors!)

Other than that, he's been eating pretty well for me. Really likes quail and hamster, however I'm working on switching him over to rats now that he's put on some weight and feeds more consistently.

Also, his 4×2 enclosure from Herptastic came in, which I'm excited about. I'll need to install a RHP and assemble the cage, but I'll probably keep him in his current tub for a bit longer.




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_EL-Ziggy_ (07-25-2020),Gio (07-25-2020),_richardhind1972_ (07-25-2020),_wnateg_ (07-25-2020)

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## EL-Ziggy

Those colors and that iridescence is insane! I'm glad he's doing well with you!

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_Awesomethepossum_ (07-26-2020)

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## Gio

Thats a great shot. 

Unbelievable coloring and the rainbow 🌈 is real.

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_Awesomethepossum_ (07-26-2020)

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## richardhind1972

Wow that's one stunning python that colour and iridescence is insane
So nice 

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_Awesomethepossum_ (07-26-2020)

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## Awesomethepossum

Hey, not really much of an update but I wanted to see if I could get some advice.

Jekyll still hasn't been transitioning over from drop-fed hamsters (tried scenting rat pups/even rat pinks with no success) and he also hasn't eaten on the past 2 weeks. He's pale and wrinkly, so I believe he's going into shed, and I'm hoping this could explain his lack of appetite. 

That in mind,, I'm still concerned about getting a fecal test done. To confirm nothing is slowing down his appetite, or possibly his growth.

I want to be able to just send a sample in for testing without the stress of taking him to the vet, but I haven't found a vet that does this. They want to see him in first, which I understand, for treatment purposes.

 However, I've heard of WLPs dying from the stress of these experiences and I'm very concerned. But I've also heard that imports (CH or otherwise) can have high internal parasite loads, and I want to deal with this if thats the case.

Is the stress of a vet visit THAT bad for them? I know they're high-stress snakes. Does anyone have any recommendations for getting fecals tested without vet trips (through a company or whatnot) or would a visit not as bad as I've been told? 


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*Bogertophis* (08-25-2020),_richardhind1972_ (08-25-2020)

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## richardhind1972

Just stunning 

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_Awesomethepossum_ (08-25-2020)

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## dakski

https://www.amazon.com/Reptiles-Rabb.../dp/B000J5SOZ4


https://perfectpetproducts.com/SAVE-...ME-7850012.htm

I'd probably trust the one for reptiles and amphibians more than the all animal one, but I am not sure. 

I just googled "reptile fecal mail in."

I've heard from others that have done this, but not sure what they used (i.e. test kit). 

I would think do this first and then a vet to safe stress, but it also depends how worried you are and how comfortable you are with your vet and their expertise with reptiles.

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_Awesomethepossum_ (08-25-2020),*Bogertophis* (08-25-2020)

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## Awesomethepossum

> https://www.amazon.com/Reptiles-Rabb.../dp/B000J5SOZ4
> 
> 
> https://perfectpetproducts.com/SAVE-...ME-7850012.htm
> 
> I'd probably trust the one for reptiles and amphibians more than the all animal one, but I am not sure. 
> 
> I just googled "reptile fecal mail in."
> 
> ...


Thank you for your help

I saw that first one and had considered it, still looking at second link. Not sure if it covers the more microscopic parasites (ex: flagellates, which I've heard these imports can be loaded with) .

He's eating drop fed, but without gusto. Has only taken small hamsters, one a week. Stool isn't consistent/familiar enough to me, for me to say "looks good/normal". 

Ball python craps seem pretty straight-forward. Not sure if hampster makes their poo different...I know quail does...

IF it's a GI thing, I fear stress of vet visit could exacerbate things. Put him off food longer, etc. He isn't a bulky dude.

I HAVE Panacur and Flagyl (liquid form, measured for reptile use) and syringes and such but I don't want to fool around with it without knowing.

I'm going to look more at the second link. I'm hoping he sheds soon and gives me something to work with. Doubt he'd like a cloacal flush.

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*Bogertophis* (08-25-2020),_dakski_ (08-25-2020)

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## Bogertophis

My 2 cents:  stress for an already-stressed import does matter.  Personally, I'd first try one of those mail-in tests rather than a vet visit to see if you can get him healthier,
stronger, & eating for a while first & put off a vet visit until he is much more stable & can better handle it.   I've used both Panacur & Flagyl in the past, & both seem 
quite safe.  They also usually improve the appetite, and that's a real "win".

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_Awesomethepossum_ (08-26-2020),_dakski_ (08-25-2020),_jmcrook_ (08-25-2020)

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## wnateg

If he's going into shed, that's probably why he's not eating. Considering he was eating, albeit hamsters only, weekly, sounds like just a picky import to me. Have you tried a hamster and rat combo?

Though I guess a mail-in fecal couldnt hurt, so.

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_Awesomethepossum_ (08-26-2020)

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## Awesomethepossum

> If he's going into shed, that's probably why he's not eating. Considering he was eating, albeit hamsters only, weekly, sounds like just a picky import to me. Have you tried a hamster and rat combo?
> 
> Though I guess a mail-in fecal couldnt hurt, so.


These are 10g-ish hamsters. Hasn't taken the slightly larger ones for me. But yeah once a week. 

I've tried scenting rat pinks and small rat pups with hamsters and/or quail (rinsing off rat smell, thawing with the quail/hamster, etc) and leaving both in for him to select from (inclusing the hamster and quail). If he takes, it's always the hamster. Little :cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r:.

It's just that, he goes off feed at the immediate hint of an upcoming shed. Slight dimness in some patches, a small whistle during handling (when I initially take him out). Not hungry, then takes forever to shed.

Haven't seen him go blue, but it's been 2 weeks now since those initial signs. He's been very reclusive this entire time as well, even at night. 

Temps still solid 88-90 and 82 on cool side, cooler at night. Humidity is 85-95 for shedding. His last shed was in June, and took 2 1/2 weeks without food. Very picky.

I'm hoping it's just the shed, but I wish he's take better, larger prey items, and with more enthusiasm (in general). Just doesn't seem like there's much progress, which is why I worry something else is going on (or I'm just overthinking it).

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## Awesomethepossum

> My 2 cents:  stress for an already-stressed import does matter.  Personally, I'd first try one of those mail-in tests rather than a vet visit to see if you can get him healthier,
> stronger, & eating for a while first & put off a vet visit until he is much more stable & can better handle it.   I've used both Panacur & Flagyl in the past, & both seem 
> quite safe.  They also usually improve the appetite, and that's a real "win".


Thank you- that's what I'm leaning towards doing. I saw a post in a WLP group, of someone taking theirs to the vet for import-related stomatitis (GI issues) and the poor thing died after the vet exam.  Then I read the resulting discussion about how easy it is to kill these guys with stress. That's what kind of set the caution in for me. 

Whatever gets the job done with the least negative impact

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*Bogertophis* (08-26-2020)

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## Awesomethepossum

I didn't want to bother him again today but I needed to get a weight on him. He's 174 grams. And also looks a lot brighter today. 

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*Bogertophis* (08-26-2020),_richardhind1972_ (08-26-2020)

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## Bogertophis

> Thank you- that's what I'm leaning towards doing. I saw a post in a WLP group, of someone taking theirs to the vet for import-related stomatitis (GI issues) and the poor thing died after the vet exam.  Then I read the resulting discussion about how easy it is to kill these guys with stress. That's what kind of set the caution in for me. 
> 
> Whatever gets the job done with the least negative impact
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


It happens way too often, IMO- vets are often more heavy-handed than I like to see- they're determined to "get the job done" & don't have much time, but snakes are fragile when it comes to this kind of stress, & when you couple that with injections or other things they may see as necessary, I would just personally try to get him stronger first, & maybe you'll never even need the vet's help.  If it means taking a guess on a fairly-safe dose of Panacur or Flagyl to get his appetite up & his GI tract functioning better, that's what I'd do.  I find that "TLC" works best for snakes- they survive all sorts of things in the wild, but few things are more stressful than vet care for an imported snake.

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_Awesomethepossum_ (08-27-2020)

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## Bogertophis

I think the main difference is that at home, you know the snake better, and you can take your time.  I've never had a snake die from "the stress of tube-feeding" either, incidentally, & I've saved quite a few snakes of all sizes (including tiny 7" glossy snake hatchlings) with tube-feeding. 

 Snakes react to how they're handled...gently- versus the firmness usually practiced by vets.  When I do something like a tube-feed, as I've often told people, it's a give & take...not too pushy, not too fast.  Snakes grabbed firmly at the head & neck think you're a predator, not their friend, whereas a lighter & slower touch can still get the job done with a whole different message.  When you throw in injections by the vet, it's no wonder some snakes don't survive. 

 Vets mean well...I believe that...but they put medicine before 'husbandry' techniques whereas I believe in the reverse order.  Your touch can reassure a snake...I've handled lots of wild snakes, & they generally know I'm not a threat to them, even if I do something they don't like.  You love this snake, so YOU should be the one doing the handling...the snake will feel the difference.  Medications used go furthest on a snake not fighting for it's life (not feeling so stressed).  True healing is about more than drugs.   :Wink:

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_Awesomethepossum_ (08-27-2020)

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## Awesomethepossum

> I think the main difference is that at home, you know the snake better, and you can take your time.  I've never had a snake die from "the stress of tube-feeding" either, incidentally, & I've saved quite a few snakes of all sizes (including tiny 7" glossy snake hatchlings) with tube-feeding. 
> 
>  Snakes react to how they're handled...gently- versus the firmness usually practiced by vets.  When I do something like a tube-feed, as I've often told people, it's a give & take...not too pushy, not too fast.  Snakes grabbed firmly at the head & neck think you're a predator, not their friend, whereas a lighter & slower touch can still get the job done with a whole different message.  When you throw in injections by the vet, it's no wonder some snakes don't survive. 
> 
>  Vets mean well...I believe that...but they put medicine before 'husbandry' techniques whereas I believe in the reverse order.  Your touch can reassure a snake...I've handled lots of wild snakes, & they generally know I'm not a threat to them, even if I do something they don't like.  You love this snake, so YOU should be the one doing the handling...the snake will feel the difference.  Medications used go furthest on a snake not fighting for it's life (not feeling so stressed).  True healing is about more than drugs.


I agree with what you've said. I'll do what I can from home, let him go through his shed (which will hopefully be soon). Then I'll go from there.

When he's in a "not today" mood he'll literally fling urate/pee everywhere just by me taking the lid off of his tub. I can't imagine how he'd handle a vet visit.

I understand that he's an import. Stress, and picky feeding can be an assumable risk. But if all husbandry parameters are correct and he shows limited progress after his shed, I have the tools to take some careful action, and see if I can stimulate his appetite. I just want to rule out parasites as a contributing factor here.

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*Bogertophis* (08-27-2020)

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## Bogertophis

He's a challenge for sure.  While sometimes there's no avoiding vet care, at the wrong time or for the wrong snake, I think they can lose their will to live when they're on
that fine line & if the treatment is too aggressive.  I hope you can get him on track... :Good Job:   I'm pulling for ya!

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_Awesomethepossum_ (08-27-2020)

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## Awesomethepossum

> He's a challenge for sure.  While sometimes there's no avoiding vet care, at the wrong time or for the wrong snake, I think they can lose their will to live when they're on
> that fine line & if the treatment is too aggressive.  I hope you can get him on track...  I'm pulling for ya!


Unfortunately, Jekyll passed away yesterday.

After this discussion I had him treated for the parasites, and consequential dehydration/anemia, as well. He also recieved a liquid carnivore diet. He received 3 minute, measured doses of the Panacur, spaced out to every 4 days. He was active after this, he became more himself (feisty), and some of his color came back. I also provided him with brief, warm (again measured) electrolyte soaks, which he seemed to relax into. He was filled out again, not wrinkly, and started to become active again at night.

However...just prior to this, he had begun excreting an almost custardly (in substance), lime green urate when he peed (he began dr I nuking on his own again) which quickly became more prominent, and and also became extremely vibrant. 

I know the parasites were treated, but it seems that treatment came too late and the parasite load did irreversible damage to his organs. After the treatment stopped he was good for around  4-5 days, then he crashed overnight, and I found him yesterday.

I understand the risks that come with imports, but it still sucks. I'll be going for a CBH next time, just to be safe. 

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*bcr229* (09-10-2020),_Reinz_ (09-12-2020),_richardhind1972_ (09-10-2020)

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## Awesomethepossum

*edit, not Panacur, Flagyl.

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## richardhind1972

Sorry to hear this 


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_Awesomethepossum_ (09-10-2020)

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## Awesomethepossum

> Sorry to hear this 
> 
> 
> Sent from my ELS-NX9 using Tapatalk


I appreciate the sentiments

 It was rough. Snakes are so good at hiding a problem until it's too late. Importing is a gamble.

I've already spoken to a breeder, and I'll be getting in touch with them next year about getting a CBB. This'll give me more time to process through what happened and do more research. I'm still hooked on these guys, if not more than ever. 

I need to thoroughly bleach his quarantine tub and everything inside (if not toss everything). But yeah, when that time comes and I bring home another one, I'll make a progression thread. I definitely learned a lot from this experience. 

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_richardhind1972_ (09-10-2020)

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## jmcrook

bummer to hear about your critter. I'd strongly suggest listening to those podcasts I suggested a while back. They're a very high strung and advanced species in general, though CBB seem to be slightly more manageable from what I've gathered.

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_Awesomethepossum_ (09-11-2020)

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## Awesomethepossum

> bummer to hear about your critter. I'd strongly suggest listening to those podcasts I suggested a while back. They're a very high strung and advanced species in general, though CBB seem to be slightly more manageable from what I've gathered.


I listened to them for sure, and I thank you for sharing them..will definitely give myself a refresher as well. There was a lot of solid info.

I had gone over my husbandry and overall approach, both on here, as well as in a WLP group on Facebook. Everyone had said the same, that he quarantibe tub looked good, and that as an import he probably had an overload of flagellates, among other things, and the typical import stress, which likely exacerbated the parasite load and weakened his resilience. It got bad overnight, no exaggeration. 

What stool he had was complete liquid, urates a vibrantly, almost neon green, with an unusual consistency. He was drinking, but still appeared severely dehydrated (horizontal wrinkling, body "puckering" became suddenly very severe) despite the humidity being at 90-95% (I boosted when I thought he was going into shed a few weeks back) and 2 fresh water bowls in the tank at all time. I gave him pedialyte and an electrolyte soak for 30 minutes, this also didn't seem to help.  His feistiness and intensity were gone, it was sad to see.

In the time I had him, I didn't handle him regularly, maybe once a week (if that) simply to check his body condition, get a quick weight and spot clean. No more than 10-15 minutes at a time. He was kept hidden away from all noise, other animals, with a blanket over the top to provide more security. I only fed via drop feeding. Temps and humidity were solid.

I can't say for sure what happened, but signs point to internal damage from a heavy parasite load and import stress. It spiraled downward fast.

I'm hoping that getting a CBH will be a safer bet. I just feel it removes more variables-ones that are almost inevitable with an imported WLP. I know they're more of a reclusive "do not touch" species, and I fully respect that. I need to look more into this

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_Reinz_ (09-12-2020),_richardhind1972_ (09-11-2020)

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## Reinz

So sorry for your loss AP.  :Sad:

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_Awesomethepossum_ (09-13-2020)

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## wnateg

That's terrible. Unfortunately that's the reality with WC sometimes though. Not saying you did anything wrong, but generally, it does present more challenges and decisions on how to treat them. I think going with CBB will definitely be a better option.

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_Awesomethepossum_ (09-13-2020)

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## dakski

Really sorry to hear of your loss. My condolences.

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_Awesomethepossum_ (09-13-2020)

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