New THG Heat Tape Test Results are in

THG Heat Tape
VS.
The Competitor

This test started as a desire to provide excellent custom display enclosures for my personal Ball Python collection

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I purchased some Competitor 11in heat tape to maintain the hot spot for my enclosures and applied it with metal ducting tape to the bottom glass panel of my enclosures. I ran the Competitor heat tape of a VE300X2 thermostat from reptile basics. I quickly realized this was going to be an issue due to the fact that the 3 identically manufactured pieces of Competitor heat tape would not run at the same temperature. I had up to a 15 degree Fahrenheit temp difference temperature split between the 3 enclosures. To solve this I use dimmer switches to limit current to the hotter sections of heat tape. Around the first of the year I hear of a new product from Reptile Basics THG heat tape. I purchased 50 feet of the new THG heat tape and reapplied this to my enclosures with a much greater success. Below you will find listed the testing I performed before installing THG heat tape and my results.

I built a test bench consisting of a piece of plywood and a VE300 thermostat. I then installed the THG heat tape in 3 19inch section built exactly the same as the Competitor heat tape. I soldered a 9ft extension cords to each piece of THG heat tape. Then applied each section of THG heat tape to the test bench and installed the thermostat to one piece of heat tape. I let the THG heat tape run for 2 weeks on the test bench with a maximum of 1.5 degrees Fahrenheit split between any section of all 3 pieces of heat tape as seen in the pictures below the main sections of the heat tape maintained a maximum of .5 degree Fahrenheit temp difference.



TEST BENCH

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Results after Two weeks

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Enclosure temps after two weeks testing

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After testing the THG heat tape on a test bench I then installed it onto my custom enclosures and proceeded with a real life test situation. The results were exactly the same as the bench test with a maximum temp difference of 1.5 degrees Fahrenheit between any spot on the new heat source and a .5 degree Fahrenheit temp difference in the main sections of the THG heat tape. Having seen other results from tests performed the maximum temp the THG heat tape would reach under these conditions would be approximately 115 degrees Fahrenheit which would still leave an enclosure temp of 97-103 Degrees Fahrenheit. This should still leave a safe living environment for reptiles in the enclosure. I will be performing a maximum power test on the next enclosure I built but as the three enclosures I currently have built have reptiles living in them I felt this could lead to undue stress to my animals.

To clarify, your test was without dimmers or rheostats? So, the manufacturing process is more consistent.

And, thanks in advance for sharing your find.

Correct I ran the THG heat tape without any Dimmers or Rheostat. With the other heat tape I was using I had to run a dimmer for 2 of the 3 enclosures

Checkout this infrared comparison video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYdybSzLgLY

(Link for smartphone users): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYdybSzLgLY

Do you place the heat tape physically inside your enclosures?


Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk

No the heat tape is taped to the bottom glass panel of my enclosures heating the glass for a hot spot :)

Wait... Isn't this the exact same test Aaron, The Serpent Merchant already did?

Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2

Aarons test was similar but I was trying to fix a problem I was having with my custom enclosures. I had a severe temp split with Flexwatt heat tape and the THG heat tape does not have that issue

I will be changing my flexwatt to the new thg heat tape.

Sent from my EVO Design using Tapatalk 2.

Alright mate? I am from the UK and used to look to the US forums for new ideas. I have a few questions on your youtube video that pointed me to this forum. I used to use the flexwatt but found another company that are as credible as them called Flexel. They let me tour their facility. They make the product in Scotland. They have been around almost as long as flexwatt and i am very interested to hear there is a better heat tape available now. I do have one question before I start using this tape. I cant seem to find anything on THG and the product looks like a Korean product called Rexva. Is this a German company or is it actually Rexva? We have had many issues using a product that looks similar from three different Korean companies where the heat either disappeared after 6-8 months and the heater resistance drastically lowered. In another few instances the wattage went from 8 watts to over 20 watts causing a fire. It was not very stable over time. On a funny note some headcase from Korea sent me a product that was actually pen ink and not conductive carbon but that was just comical. I had a falling out with Flexel (you are probably familiar with their Ultratherm heaters) and even though flexwatt has worked without any issues for years they have absolutely no idea about our hobby. They only sell rolls and the shipping to the UK is higher than the product itself for goodness sake! Can anyone put me in touch with THG so I can make sure it is not Rexva that manufacturers it? If you could point me to a website for the manufacturer that would be brilliant.

I watched the infrared video and cant understand it. Can you explain that? I really appreciate it. the one on the left is glowing so it is obviously much hotter but I am not sure how to get a full understanding on this. THey cannot be the same wattage so I am not sure what to look for.

Lastly does this product come in 230 volt or would I need to step down the voltage?

Cheers mate.

Does anyone know why RBI switched from flexwatt to this new THG tape? I'm using 11" flexwatt hooked to a herpstat and was just curious if they found any faults or anything wrong with flexwatt..? Just curious :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Frankie M

I cant seem to find anything on THG and the product looks like a Korean product called Rexva. Is this a German company or is it actually Rexva?

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THG Heat Tape is not made by Rexva.

Why did I switch? That has been dragged out in another thread but the brief recap is that I did not have issue with the product as much as the company. I did not have to make a switch and would have been just fine if I had not and only a handful of people would ever know I looked. When there is room for an improvement in both the product and the company I am dealing with then it is time for a switch. I do not like being taken completely for granted because I deal primarily in the reptile hobby but it is not an uncommon thing when sourcing components and products. We now produce quite a few products both here, abroad, and a combination of the two. It has been a very educational experience. All is not so cut and dried as some would like to think. So far this switch is very well received by those who have used it and it has proven to be every bit as stable over the short and long term by all who have used it. It also opens the door for us to evolve this product for reptile use in a way we could not before, the new 6" element being an example.

This element is not being made by Rexva. They did not make the cut along with a few others from South Korea, China and Europe. I currently have a very good relationship with Flexel in Europe and like some of their products quite a bit. After a lengthy discussion with them about testing and bringing their element to the states it became clear that it was an up hill battle not worth fighting. Oddly, I felt very much like I was dealing with the same problems I was having with Calorique so I moved on. These decisions were not driven by price nor a dart board as some would try to have you believe.

IR video colors can be a bit deceiving. The camera scales the colors based on the hottest temp in the field and the coolest in the field even if those temps are only a few degrees apart. The difference in the temps between the two elements are not really all that great, a few degrees in this case. You also need to look at the head on shots of each for the best indication of their temp and when you do they are really very close. When one is center of the field and the other (either way) is on the edge of the field it will cause the edge of field to look cooler. The laminate seems to have a bit of a weird reflectivity to it. These emissivity properties can also play havoc with IR tempguns as well when you point them at some types of surfaces as some of you may have experienced. Also, I still have the elements in these videos plugged in here at the shop and we will be revisiting this in a few months time. Bet the results are the same- neither has shown any significant change at all even after extended full power use and some stress testing with an insulator over them.

We went to great pains to get both elements to lie completely flat with no air between it and the table as that created artificial hot spots. I will point out again- these videos do not necessarily point out a clear winner or loser. In fact, I think they ultimately show both elements are up to the task we are using them for. There are a few knee jerk types out there who simply can not seem to understand or admit that it is in fact possible another product made over seas could be up to par with what they are used to and these IR videos are to objectively refute their claims. Many other users are supporting this with their own field tests as well. Would I prefer it was made here? If it is good stuff then yes. Is it automatically good because it is made here, of course not. I have found junk made everywhere in the world, including here. Unfortunately there are no other US options at this time so we sought out and selected the best we could find. I personally like it better for some of the properties of the laminate used, the better service from the manufacturer, equal or better product for our application and our ability to move forward with new products that the reptile community could definitely benefit from. The complete lack of competition in this field in the USA is really the source of most of the problems and stagnation of products in my opinion.

Rich

i have been paying a lot more attention to these forums due to the fact that we at Flexwatt did not understand your hobby. We have now addressed that and there will be a lot of new reptile products being manufactured by us. We would have continued to manufacture the same products but it was this competition that made us pay attention. The reason I got a little upset at your other posts is because you lied and said we manufacture and utilize an Asian supply chain. You know this is not true but said it anyway. We are 100% USA and very proud of that. This is a heat product and uses electricity to heat up. Why are you and Robyn hiding the manufacturer of the product if it is up to par? Don't you think it is fair to let your customers know what they are buying? Especially if it can be very dangerous in its application if it is not made/used correctly. If there is nothing to hide then this should not be a problem. I am also curious as to what you mean by long term? Who makes it and how long have they been making it? I can't figure out why the manufacturer is being kept hidden.

Looking at the infrared camera it is clearly two different watt densities and not the same product being compared. The glowing product is a higher watt density.

I work for Flexwatt so I am obviously going to recommend our product but here are some facts:

We used copper bus bars in the 80s and switched to a more expensive tin plated copper with a printed silver. The reason for this was safety and to produce a longer lasting product. Copper oxidizes. we also had to step up our product in order to get a UL listing. THis is different than UR. All our UR products are produced to our UL listing standard.

We use the 7 tooth amp connectors because it makes a safe connection. These can be insulated with 3m 2228 tape for a lower profile than the plastic insulators if needed. We do NOT pre punch a hole and try to fit a rivet in that hole. If the rivet moves it can cause arching and sparking between the buss and the rivet that is no longer in direct contact. The gap is what can cause the spark. we will not take that risk.

We are an ISO company that manufactures to these standards. Nobody knows where the THG is manufactured. Hopefully that will be addressed. If not you can probably find out from UL if you can see the number below the UR symbol on the tape.

We have millions of feet installed in the field for reptile purposes, interior heat, deicing, thermal imaging US military targets etc. our ink mix has been proven stable for thirty years. Maybe the manufactur of the tHG product can provide some info on their product in the field. With all the equipment and software needed to produce a reputable heat tape there is no way you can only produce it for reptile heat so they are obviously making product for other applications.

Flexwatt is the ONLY UL listed radiant heat film in the world. We have UL listing for our FLR/RCH product and a componant listing for other applications. this means that UL audit our manufacturing facility along with NEMKO, ETL etc.

Flexwatt can manufacture a 16 mil laminate as opposed to our 9 mil tape you have now. THG is 10.5 mil. The reason we have kept it 9 mil is because we were told it is easier to weave it between racks. If a thicker product is what is needed that is no problem just let us know.

We have proprietary software that monitors the ink stability at 10,000 impressions per second. This makes sure that only top quality product leaves our facilities.

To back this up the Flexwatt heat tape now has a 5 year warranty. That is a manufacturer warranty so we back it and will not leave that to a distributor.

Everyone is free to buy what they prefer. I would just ask questions about who manufactures the product. This is electric heat. It is important to know who makes it. I also wish there were more US companies that made this product. It would mean a lot more awareness of the product. In the next few months we will have a lot more products for the reptile community including finished heaters with a built in safety feature. We will also soon start to manufacture the product with reptile pictures on the tape so you know you are getting a Flexwatt product. This was also decided becuase for years we only sold what was asked for and did not focus on the reptile industry. That has now changed with a dedicated rep that is a breeder. I apologize that it took so long. I will admit i did not understand anything about your hobby. If there are any other products that will help you just let us know. We will look into making it. I got some good feedback from emails sent to me from the last thread and as you can see above we are taking your suggestions and turning them into products. If there are any preferred heat pads you like but are made with a wire with hot spots we will even reach out to that manufacturer and offer them the film to put inside their mats. Just let us know. My email is e.gilmartin@calorique.com. If you don't hear back from me in 24 hours call the office at 508-291-4224. Some of the emails I received went into my junk box so I don't want you to think you are being ignored. our new rep can be reached at flexwattsales@gmail.com. He has just been hired and will have a Calorique email in a week but you can reach him at the above email for now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ed gilmartin

Rich

i have been paying a lot more attention to these forums due to the fact that we at Flexwatt did not understand your hobby. We have now addressed that and there will be a lot of new reptile products being manufactured by us. We would have continued to manufacture the same products but it was this competition that made us pay attention. The reason I got a little upset at your other posts is because you lied and said we manufacture and utilize an Asian supply chain. You know this is not true but said it anyway. We are 100% USA and very proud of that. This is a heat product and uses electricity to heat up. Why are you and Robyn hiding the manufacturer of the product if it is up to par? Don't you think it is fair to let your customers know what they are buying? Especially if it can be very dangerous in its application if it is not made/used correctly. If there is nothing to hide then this should not be a problem. I am also curious as to what you mean by long term? Who makes it and how long have they been making it? I can't figure out why the manufacturer is being kept hidden.

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1. Glad you are paying more attention to the forums now. And over a couple months since the other post I know you have not learned everything you can. Where as Rich and Robyn have been in this hobby for a very long time.

2. As many people including myself had tried to approach you in the past with questions or suggestions and you pretty much blew them off until now where you have "competition"

3. As I said in the other post. I know myself I believe that Robyn would not put out a faulty product after everything he has been through.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ed gilmartin

We use the 7 tooth amp connectors because it makes a safe connection. These can be insulated with 3m 2228 tape for a lower profile than the plastic insulators if needed. We do NOT pre punch a hole and try to fit a rivet in that hole. If the rivet moves it can cause arching and sparking between the buss and the rivet that is no longer in direct contact. The gap is what can cause the spark. we will not take that risk.

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Both of these methods can cause the same problem. The whole thing is to make sure they are installed properly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ed gilmartin

Flexwatt is the ONLY UL listed radiant heat film in the world. We have UL listing for our FLR/RCH product and a componant listing for other applications. this means that UL audit our manufacturing facility along with NEMKO, ETL etc.

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You keep bringing this up. How long after you started producing flexwatt did it take before it became UL listed? I know it didn't happen overnight.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ed gilmartin

Flexwatt can manufacture a 16 mil laminate as opposed to our 9 mil tape you have now. THG is 10.5 mil. The reason we have kept it 9 mil is because we were told it is easier to weave it between racks. If a thicker product is what is needed that is no problem just let us know.

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Lol this one just makes me laugh. You have said many times before that you never payed any mind to this hobby before this product came out. Now you say that you have kept it at 9 mil because you were told it was easier to weave it in racks. I think that after you say that you never paid attention to things till now I don't think you could say that that's why you kept it at 9 mil.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ed gilmartin

Just let us know. My email is e.gilmartin@calorique.com. If you don't hear back from me in 24 hours call the office at 508-291-4224. Some of the emails I received went into my junk box so I don't want you to think you are being ignored. our new rep can be reached at flexwattsales@gmail.com. He has just been hired and will have a Calorique email in a week but you can reach him at the above email for now.

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Ok I don't know about the new rep. As for you I have to lol at this comment too. I had emailed you and didn't receive a response from you for about 2 or 3 months when I did all I got was the standard prices nothing about what I had originally asked.

I will always go with what someone that has been in the hobby goes with other then someone that changes their ways because their bottom dollar is being affected because someone finally gave them some competition. Thank you Rich and Robyn.

Funny there Ed, you sell copper bus barr periodically over the last couple of years. Don't even try to say you have not. Does that mean you intentionally sold me/us a product you know inferior that will fail? I will look Monday but I bet I have some scraps lying around with the copper that is not tinned?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reptilebasics

Funny there Ed, you sell copper bus barr periodically over the last couple of years. Don't even try to say you have not. Does that mean you intentionally sold me/us a product you know inferior that will fail? I will look Monday but I bet I have some scraps lying around with the copper that is not tinned?

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Still no admission to who the manufacturer is. What could you possibly be hiding? You knew all along that ourroduct is made in the USA utilizing the US supply chain and you still went ahead and stated it was made in Asia. I don't think we will ever get the truth from you as to who manufacters the THG. It would probably be a disaster for you guys. Like I said we used copper a long time ago and use tin plated copper with a printed silver. It does cost a lot more but we are more concerned about safety than pushing out cheap products like the Korean companies. You guys have been doing a good job hiding that. Or so you may believe.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mattb

1. Glad you are paying more attention to the forums now. And over a couple months since the other post I know you have not learned everything you can. Where as Rich and Robyn have been in this hobby for a very long time.

2. As many people including myself had tried to approach you in the past with questions or suggestions and you pretty much blew them off until now where you have "competition"

3. As I said in the other post. I know myself I believe that Robyn would not put out a faulty product after everything he has been through.



Both of these methods can cause the same problem. The whole thing is to make sure they are installed properly.



You keep bringing this up. How long after you started producing flexwatt did it take before it became UL listed? I know it didn't happen overnight.



Lol this one just makes me laugh. You have said many times before that you never payed any mind to this hobby before this product came out. Now you say that you have kept it at 9 mil because you were told it was easier to weave it in racks. I think that after you say that you never paid attention to things till now I don't think you could say that that's why you kept it at 9 mil.



Ok I don't know about the new rep. As for you I have to lol at this comment too. I had emailed you and didn't receive a response from you for about 2 or 3 months when I did all I got was the standard prices nothing about what I had originally asked.

I will always go with what someone that has been in the hobby goes with other then someone that changes their ways because their bottom dollar is being affected because someone finally gave them some competition. Thank you Rich and Robyn.

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Matt

I have been honest on any posts I have made so in staying with that I will admit for selfish reasons also we hired a rep from your community. I got some questions that I had no idea what the person was referencing. I just don't have the knowledge needed to service you guys. What ever I did not answer in your emails where I sent the pricing only please let me know so I can forward it to the rep and get the correct answer. One thing I do understand is how thin film radiant heat is manufactured and the standards of material and connectors needed to make it safe. I know that the Korean companies make a far inferior product. They just don't have the standards at we have here in the US. They are a hell of a lot cheaper but you get what you pay for. If THG had lowered their price to you guys since taking on a far inferior product then at least you would know if you want quality you will pay for it. I know rich and Robyn have been in your hobby for a long time and I have no idea of what your needs are but rest assured that rich and Robyn do not know the sligghtest thing about the manufacturing of thin film radiant heat. They know about as much as I know about breeding reptiles.

I have to correct your statement on both connections being problematic. If you were to pre punch 7 holes of the teeth in our connectors you would have a great risk of arching and sparking. The connection must be flush that is why we do NOT us a pre punched rivet connector. Our 5 year warranty will back that up.

We got our UL years ago for our FLR/RCH products. They are the ones that would not list it with copper buss bars. W changed to a printed silver with tin plated copper. It is costly but safe. We did not have to do this with our other products but we hold all our products to the highest standards.

Originally we had a reptile breeder use one of our agriculture mats and said it worked great for his use. He asked that we reduce the thickness from 16 miles to a lower density to make it easier for him to use with racks. We never changed and only started to address this when THG came to town. Originally I only responded because rich lied and said we manufactured in Asia. He knows dan well from dealing with us for years that we are 100% USA manufactured utilizing the US supply chain.

Let me now your email address so I can look for your emails. I am assuming you asked for pricing or I would not have sent it. But I will get it to our reptile rep as soon as you let me know and will get you the answer. The rep is actually a breeder in your state and I can go one further and ask him to pay a visit if that would help.

Matt you are just right to pick which supplier you prefer. That is what's great about the USA. You have free competition which leads to far superior products. But wouldn't you like to know who is making an electric heater that is used to provide an essential service to your animals? I think that the least THG can do is let you know the manufacturer and the standards they manufacture too. Even take apart my product and state facts as to why theirs is safer and superior. I have been open and even posted a video of our manufacturing process. I encourage you to challenge THG to do the same. It is only fair to you guys. They can ignore me. I don't buy anything from them but you are a loyal customer. I f they stay silent and continue to hide th manufacturer of the tape then you have to assume that is being done for a good reason.

I have said this before, I care only about my animals. I don't buy based on anything other than what I perceive is best for them. Things that fit me needs. Nothing more nothing less.

The flexwatt connectors Ed, SUCK. Rich has developed an interesting method. Ed stop, and look at it, the rivet holds a flat eyelet in place UNDER the plastic shield on the bus. It is a good system. like all methods the rivet must be tight and well done. There is a very good point about the copper bus it is not sealed in but just covered. Time will tell how much of a problem copper oxidation will be. I dislike the flexwatt even though I use it, it solves more problems than it makes.

I am hoping to get around to ordering some to test myself I have not had time to do so at the point. Neither product is perfect clearly, I can see issues with both. I an also thinking of switching fully to ultratherms as I use them with enclosures and the product is superior to flexwatt in my experience. There are advantages to heat cable as well. Most choose to disinfect enclosures some choose to disinfect racks so liquids are a huge issue with both flexwatt and THG. I hate the need to remove and replace the heat product monthly! If Kane made a mat the right size I would use it.

The last half of 2012 is a long time ago on the copper huh?

We made a decision to keep our manufacturer to ourselves, it is proprietary information. As our competitor I am sure you would very much like to know but we are not going to tell you. I think based on your past comments that no matter who is making it that if it is not you then it must be terrible so shall we just assume you will not be satisfied? Do you really think that we are so stupid? Please, continue to underestimate. You can try to bully and distract all you like but thats how it is. Users that have held and tried our product love it. If someone chooses yours because they know it or it is made in the USA then that is up to them and my feelings are not hurt- thats life in the big city. Can't really see why you seem to think that this is such a big point other than you really do not have any others?

It is a good thing you (Calorique) are stepping up to the plate some for the reptile community finally. It is pretty amusing it took this to get your company to do it. I flat out told Mike Collins that this was going to happen when he was your VP of marketing and sales and he politely blew me off. Now I am glad he did.

We can also go back and forth endlessly on the connectors but a tip for you, now that you all sudden care- The AMP connectors are great BUT they can be very deceptive as to whether they are crimped properly or not. I have talked to countless people over the years that thought they had them smushed but did not. Or they tried to re use them after the teeth had already been crushed. That is the biggest danger of all. While this is not your fault or mine it is a reality of this market. With the rivet and the eyelet inside the laminate it is very easy. If the eyelet pivots it is not done properly. Done. Even if the connection is not all it should be the larger, flat surface area of the eyelet makes for a better contact. Can people still do it wrong, as Matt pointed out the answer is yes. All we can both do is try our best to make sure they get it right with the respective systems and lay off the bickering.

I have spent thousands and thousands of hours educating, helping and fixing problems with your element and connectors over the years with real world reptile customers. Thousands more educating people on how to use this product as safely as possible specifically in our hobby. Our application is a unique one and in many ways lends itself to problems if one is not careful and paying attention. It requires regular inspection of the element as there are lots of opportunities for wear. NO ONE, especially not your company, has even come close to this. I am hoping you hired someone up to the task and good luck.

Missed the oxidizing copper- Thanks Kite-

Unless you are in some unpleasant conditions the copper oxidation is not a problem. How do I know this you may ask? For a quick, practical answer look at your house wiring. Wire nuts are used in houses, buildings and anywhere else you have electrical wiring and the copper is exposed to air, even more so than this application. The exposed copper wire gets darker in color which is a small amount of oxidation, but thats it. The connection is still sound and good.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reptilebasics

I have spent thousands and thousands of hours educating, helping and fixing problems with your element and connectors over the years with real world reptile customers. Thousands more educating people on how to use this product as safely as possible specifically in our hobby. Our application is a unique one and in many ways lends itself to problems if one is not careful and paying attention. It requires regular inspection of the element as there are lots of opportunities for wear. NO ONE, especially not your company, has even come close to this. I am hoping you hired someone up to the task and good luck.

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^ This is why I would buy from Rich! Thanks for the heat tape and Theremostat!

Rich that is likely very true. Although 80-100 degrees and 60 percent RH is hardly normal house conditions. I would expect perhaps a bit more than a home in a equal time. I also suspect it would self arrest as well.

Just had a thought, you use a rubber tape to seal the connection don't you? You could always add a pair of extra pieces over the cut end to encapsulate the bus in an enclosed envelope.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reptilebasics

The last half of 2012 is a long time ago on the copper huh?

We made a decision to keep our manufacturer to ourselves, it is proprietary information. As our competitor I am sure you would very much like to know but we are not going to tell you. I think based on your past comments that no matter who is making it that if it is not you then it must be terrible so shall we just assume you will not be satisfied? Do you really think that we are so stupid? Please, continue to underestimate. You can try to bully and distract all you like but thats how it is. Users that have held and tried our product love it. If someone chooses yours because they know it or it is made in the USA then that is up to them and my feelings are not hurt- thats life in the big city. Can't really see why you seem to think that this is such a big point other than you really do not have any others?

It is a good thing you (Calorique) are stepping up to the plate some for the reptile community finally. It is pretty amusing it took this to get your company to do it. I flat out told Mike Collins that this was going to happen when he was your VP of marketing and sales and he politely blew me off. Now I am glad he did.

We can also go back and forth endlessly on the connectors but a tip for you, now that you all sudden care- The AMP connectors are great BUT they can be very deceptive as to whether they are crimped properly or not. I have talked to countless people over the years that thought they had them smushed but did not. Or they tried to re use them after the teeth had already been crushed. That is the biggest danger of all. While this is not your fault or mine it is a reality of this market. With the rivet and the eyelet inside the laminate it is very easy. If the eyelet pivots it is not done properly. Done. Even if the connection is not all it should be the larger, flat surface area of the eyelet makes for a better contact. Can people still do it wrong, as Matt pointed out the answer is yes. All we can both do is try our best to make sure they get it right with the respective systems and lay off the bickering.

I have spent thousands and thousands of hours educating, helping and fixing problems with your element and connectors over the years with real world reptile customers. Thousands more educating people on how to use this product as safely as possible specifically in our hobby. Our application is a unique one and in many ways lends itself to problems if one is not careful and paying attention. It requires regular inspection of the element as there are lots of opportunities for wear. NO ONE, especially not your company, has even come close to this. I am hoping you hired someone up to the task and good luck.

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Rich
I can read the UR code on the tape and I already know who manufactures it. I find it amazing that you would not let people in your community know who manufactures a product that is electric and produces heat. What are you possibly hiding? I already know. I think you should let people make their own decisions based on the manufacturing process. Don’t you think it is very suspicious that you are hiding this? What could you possibly have to hide? You say you had been testing it for 3 years so let people know what tests were done. What the results were etc. We are a manufacturer who have Korean companies constantly trying to steal our ink mix and technology but I still posted videos of our manufacturing process so claiming it is proprietary info is bogus. So if you won’t tell your community who manufactures the product at least let them know how you came to the conclusion that it is stable. I ran an accelerated test on THG and in 6 days the resistance dropped 16%. I know that people in your community will start to ask questions and you will have to answer them.

I don’t think that if we don’t make something that it is not good. Flexel make a good product and they are reputable. They do not hide who they are. They stand by their products. I wish Flexel had a bigger presence here in the US so the film would get a lot more awareness but I cringe when unstable Korean products get us all a bad name. I am also not bullying you. I would not even be having this conversation if you had not lied about where our product is made. That is why I continue to bring up that it is made in the USA. Because you lied and said it was made in Asia. I have also stated other points so your comments that I only have that it is made in the USA are bogus. Read my post again and let us hear your comments on how the THG manufacturer can state that they have a reputable manufacturing process. I can post our ISO certs, UL listing etc if you would like but you already know we have them. You did business with us for years.

As far as Mike Collins blowing you off I cannot speak to that. He was an employee for a year. I find it very hard to believe that we decided to manufacture new finished heaters and other sizes and watt densities in a one hour meeting with our reptile rep on Wednesday but you could not get this done as a distributor of ours. Think about what you are saying. You already knowingly lied saying our product was made overseas so I cannot believe this comment either.

As for the connectors they are UL listed for this purpose. Can you say the same? No you can’t. Just think about it for a second. If the punched hole is not always in contact with the rivet and there is only a slight gap the voltage carrying bus bar will send the electricity down the buss and it can jump the gap to the rivet causing a spark. It’s not that hard to understand. As far as you having to spend thousands of hours on the phone explaining our connection system seems like a long time to me. You know that we calibrate the crimp tool and will not warranty any of our products if the crimp tool is not used. The tool will not release until the connection is fully made and will also not squash the product because the calibration only allows for the exact connection. I understand that the crimp tools are expensive because they are all hand calibrated in the factory. I also understand that some distributors buy cheaper crimp tools at half the cost but they are not calibrated by us so will not make the exact connection. There is a five year warranty with our product but if the calibrated crimp tool is not used then we do not honor it. It is that simple. Cut corners and we will not warranty the product.

Rich I assumed that the three years of testing as stated on your website was actually done so I am surprised about your answers on oxidization. This should have been one of the first things you learned about the heat tape during your testing process but clearly it was not. After all the current carrying bus bars are the most critical part of the tape. Copper oxidizes and the oxides don’t stick to the copper too well. When the oxides fall off and more copper is exposed it happens again and again. No different than rust in Iron. Although Iron will not be carrying a current so not a big deal. The oxides are not very conductive. This results in poor electrical contact which then gets hot and speeds up the oxidization rate. Because they are not very conductive the oxides cause arcing, just like the rivet system could cause arcing, and this deteriorates the copper. Now as for your comment on the first half of 2012 I think you may be getting a little deceived by your eyes. Those have a copper color to them. We still use these but they are tin plated. We use them mostly in our outdoor deicing systems and some interior products. In our interior products we add expensive silver to the bus bar. Do not think that because it is a copper color that it is not tin plated. THGs are NOT tin plated. Copper is a cheap product because of the amount available and can look good when oxidized but when carrying a current it is not that safe. The oxidization looks cool in the statue of liberty making a green color but there is no current or resistance heating present.

I will be doing a lot to distance ourselves from the Korean product in the reptile community. The good news is that you lying about our manufacturing location has lead to a better product and service for your community. Reptile basics has a good name in the reptile industry and people will listen to you and we will continue to get the word out on how our product is far superior but I would challenge everyone who is thinking about THG to demand that you be open and honest about who manufactures it, what standards they manufacture to and just as important what tests you did to decide this was a safe product. Do you not think that is fair? After all it is electric and can be dangerous if not manufactured correctly. You can do it over the phone or at shows and I don’t need to know. I already know and will be curious to see people’s reactions when they find out what they have been getting.
One thing I have learned in the last couple of months is that reptile hobbyist love their animals. No different than a pet owner loves their dogs. That being said they will want to know exactly what safety standards are being met before using a product that could potentially harm their animals. They have been buying from you for years and that is the very least they deserve. Do you not agree?

This again...

I only know of a handful of places I can buy heat tape by the foot as a consumer. Reptile Basics is one of them and I believe the other distributors I can think of might even be buying it from Rich. At the end of the day I'm buying the tape I have access to. If you both decide to go separate ways, bear this in mind.

Rather than going back and forth about who lied about what, I would urge you to attempt to repair relationships and provide the consumer with the safest and most functional product for our particular application. If there is a choice, I'll take safety over functionality any day of the week. I'm sure everyone here can agree they would not want to be responsible for someone's house burning down simply because they want a lower-profile or unique element to their product to distinguish it as 'better'.

I do have a question for Rich. I have an Animal Plastics rack that is grooved for 4 inch Flexwatt tape. I would like to replace my tape once a year or so. Will your THG tape fit the groove in my rack the same as the Flexwatt or does this put pressure on the Rack manufacturers to conform to one tape or the other?

Thanks.

The Bean Farm and Big Apple Herp have Flexwatt by the foot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ed gilmartin

I can read the UR code on the tape and I already know who manufactures it. I find it amazing that you would not let people in your community know who manufactures a product that is electric and produces heat. What are you possibly hiding? I already know. I think you should let people make their own decisions based on the manufacturing process. Don’t you think it is very suspicious that you are hiding this? What could you possibly have to hide? You say you had been testing it for 3 years so let people know what tests were done. What the results were etc. We are a manufacturer who have Korean companies constantly trying to steal our ink mix and technology but I still posted videos of our manufacturing process so claiming it is proprietary info is bogus. So if you won’t tell your community who manufactures the product at least let them know how you came to the conclusion that it is stable. I ran an accelerated test on THG and in 6 days the resistance dropped 16%. I know that people in your community will start to ask questions and you will have to answer them.

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Ok here we go again.

#1 from both posts that you ramble in you seem to be the only one that just has to know who manufactures the new product. It seems you would want to know since it is the biggest competition that you have in an industry that you never cared about anyway until Rich and Robyn came out with this new heat tape.

#2 I don’t find it one bit suspicious that they don’t reveall it. Does KFC tell you what their secret recipe is? You stated that you have other companies trying to steal your mixes so it would be your own fault for putting your processes out there.

#3 So you tell Rich to tell us what tests he ran to prove it was stable then in your rambling you say you tested and you don’t even say how you tested and in what conditions you tested. I am sure I could do the same to your product as well. Everything can be made to fail under the right conditions.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ed gilmartin

I don’t think that if we don’t make something that it is not good. Flexel make a good product and they are reputable. They do not hide who they are. They stand by their products. I wish Flexel had a bigger presence here in the US so the film would get a lot more awareness but I cringe when unstable Korean products get us all a bad name. I am also not bullying you. I would not even be having this conversation if you had not lied about where our product is made. That is why I continue to bring up that it is made in the USA. Because you lied and said it was made in Asia. I have also stated other points so your comments that I only have that it is made in the USA are bogus. Read my post again and let us hear your comments on how the THG manufacturer can state that they have a reputable manufacturing process. I can post our ISO certs, UL listing etc if you would like but you already know we have them. You did business with us for years.

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#1 Ok the first sentence makes no sense at all.

#2 Who are you to say that Rich and Robyn will not stand behind their product? Just because they will not shout out to the world who makes it does not mean that they will not stand behind it.

#3 You say that you are not bullying. Well as far as I could see your biggest problem was Rich saying where your product was not right. Ok I can understand you wanting to correct that. However you have gone far beyond that saying in the other thread that you will make sure the results on the test you run on his product will not be pretty. Also nothing I have seen on this thread has made any comments as to where your product was made yet you still bring that up.

#4 I am all about being made in the USA but sometimes it is just not possible. So you can just stop that. How many thing in your own home are made in the USA? Your TV? Your Car? Your computer? So just because its made in the US does not mean that it is quality. There are a lot of thing that are made in the US that are crap. So not a valid point.

#5 Again I ask you. How long after you started making your product did you receive your ISO certs and UL listing? These things do not come over night so I am betting that you were selling your product for a while before you got them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ed gilmartin

As far as Mike Collins blowing you off I cannot speak to that. He was an employee for a year. I find it very hard to believe that we decided to manufacture new finished heaters and other sizes and watt densities in a one hour meeting with our reptile rep on Wednesday but you could not get this done as a distributor of ours. Think about what you are saying. You already knowingly lied saying our product was made overseas so I cannot believe this comment either.

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I find it hard to believe that you could not take people suggestions when it came to these things instead you have to hire someone once competition comes into town and has your back against the wall. I think you approving these things and trying to push them out ASAP has me more worried about those products since you are doing it to get back into a market that you never cared about in the first place.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ed gilmartin

As for the connectors they are UL listed for this purpose. Can you say the same? No you can’t. Just think about it for a second. If the punched hole is not always in contact with the rivet and there is only a slight gap the voltage carrying bus bar will send the electricity down the buss and it can jump the gap to the rivet causing a spark. It’s not that hard to understand. As far as you having to spend thousands of hours on the phone explaining our connection system seems like a long time to me. You know that we calibrate the crimp tool and will not warranty any of our products if the crimp tool is not used. The tool will not release until the connection is fully made and will also not squash the product because the calibration only allows for the exact connection. I understand that the crimp tools are expensive because they are all hand calibrated in the factory. I also understand that some distributors buy cheaper crimp tools at half the cost but they are not calibrated by us so will not make the exact connection. There is a five year warranty with our product but if the calibrated crimp tool is not used then we do not honor it. It is that simple. Cut corners and we will not warranty the product.

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#1 As stated in my comments above. How long did it take from the time you started selling them to the time they were UL listed? Again its not a process that happens overnight.

#2 As stated in my earlier comments to installing the connector it doesn’t matter which it is it can always fail.

#3 I would not doubt that Rich has spent thousands of hours explaining your connectors does not seem farfetched to me. Rich is one of the few people who will make sure his customer service is second to none and as long as he has sold your product he would take the time to help anyone that had a question. Usually within an hour or two not ignoring it for a few months. Plus what would you tell people if they called you. One they would have got a customer service person and two you had no cares about our industry anyway until it started hurting your pocket book.

#4 Calibrating your tools by hand I think is BS it is my thought that you have the dies custom made and you check one in each batch to see if it works. While we are on the topic of that where are your crimpers made? What exactly would your warranty cover if something were to happen.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ed gilmartin

Rich I assumed that the three years of testing as stated on your website was actually done so I am surprised about your answers on oxidization. This should have been one of the first things you learned about the heat tape during your testing process but clearly it was not. After all the current carrying bus bars are the most critical part of the tape. Copper oxidizes and the oxides don’t stick to the copper too well. When the oxides fall off and more copper is exposed it happens again and again. No different than rust in Iron. Although Iron will not be carrying a current so not a big deal. The oxides are not very conductive. This results in poor electrical contact which then gets hot and speeds up the oxidization rate. Because they are not very conductive the oxides cause arcing, just like the rivet system could cause arcing, and this deteriorates the copper. Now as for your comment on the first half of 2012 I think you may be getting a little deceived by your eyes. Those have a copper color to them. We still use these but they are tin plated. We use them mostly in our outdoor deicing systems and some interior products. In our interior products we add expensive silver to the bus bar. Do not think that because it is a copper color that it is not tin plated. THGs are NOT tin plated. Copper is a cheap product because of the amount available and can look good when oxidized but when carrying a current it is not that safe. The oxidization looks cool in the statue of liberty making a green color but there is no current or resistance heating present.

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This whole paragraph only needs one response. BS. All home and car wiring is copper. And with your connectors it would punch through the tin coating and expose the copper or whatever was underneath. That is why you cover the connectors so that the bus is not exposed to the open air and moisture.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ed gilmartin

I will be doing a lot to distance ourselves from the Korean product in the reptile community. The good news is that you lying about our manufacturing location has lead to a better product and service for your community. Reptile basics has a good name in the reptile industry and people will listen to you and we will continue to get the word out on how our product is far superior but I would challenge everyone who is thinking about THG to demand that you be open and honest about who manufactures it, what standards they manufacture to and just as important what tests you did to decide this was a safe product. Do you not think that is fair? After all it is electric and can be dangerous if not manufactured correctly. You can do it over the phone or at shows and I don’t need to know. I already know and will be curious to see people’s reactions when they find out what they have been getting.

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Again you say that you are not bullying but this is just threat after threat. Do you do the same thing when you go somewhere to eat and they won’t tell you their secret recipe? Who is to say that your product is far superior? Of course you because you have everything in this community to lose. You have already stated many times before that you never cared about this industry before THG heat tape came out. So that would mean that your motivation now would strictly be the loss of money in your pocket because there is someone that truly cares about this industry that is making a product made just for us.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ed gilmartin

One thing I have learned in the last couple of months is that reptile hobbyist love their animals. No different than a pet owner loves their dogs. That being said they will want to know exactly what safety standards are being met before using a product that could potentially harm their animals. They have been buying from you for years and that is the very least they deserve. Do you not agree?

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You are right that we love our animals. I cannot speak for all the other owners in this industry only myself. You talk about Safety standards. I would always trust Rich and Robyn any day over someone who only has their eye on the bottom line. Everyone in this hobby/industry know about the tragedy at Pro Exotics and I really doubt that Robyn would put his name behind something that was not safe.

I wish your new reptile expert the best of luck. With that said I am laid off at the moment and I don’t even know if I would want to be that expert. He or she has their work cut out for them in terms of you coming out and pretty much attacking some of the most respected people for supplies in our industry/hobby. Just know that every word you say makes a big impact on people some maybe in a good way but often in a bad way.

I know I have been long winded and if anyone else has anything to point out that I missed feel free to.

This thread gave me a headache.

Ed:

I trusted Rich when he sold me your heat tape. I still trust him and have purchased some of his new heat tape.

I don't know you and I do not like the way you have handled yourself in this forum. You have damaged your brand.

I'm sure you will forget about the reptile hobby quickly but please remember we have long memories.

John

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JohnNJ

This thread gave me a headache.

Ed:

I trusted Rich when he sold me your heat tape. I still trust him and have purchased some of his new heat tape.

I don't know you and I do not like the way you have handled yourself in this forum. You have damaged your brand.

I'm sure you will forget about the reptile hobby quickly but please remember we have long memories.

John

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John

My point exactly. You trusted him when he sold our heat tape but he let you know that it was us that manufactured it. He did bot make up a name like THG and hide who manufactures flexwatt. He won't tell you who manufactures the THG film. Why? Does not make sense. What is there to hide? Obviously there is something to hide or he would say who manufactures it and we would be done. Do you like that rich lied and said our product was made in Asia when he has known for years that it is manufactured in the US? I have been honest and stated facts. I am not sure why you dont like that. I think being honest and stating facts about a product that can be hazardous is not a bad way to handle myself. I apologize if you do not like how I handled myself but I am just pointing out facts. I hope you understand this and why I have to point this stuff out. I don't want anyone thinking THG is our product and that we cut corners to get a bigger profit margin. again if I have been a little agressive I apologize but it was rich's lie that got me started.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ed gilmartin

John

My point exactly. You trusted him when he sold our heat tape but he let you know that it was us that manufactured it. He did bot make up a name like THG and hide who manufactures flexwatt. He won't tell you who manufactures the THG film. Why? Does not make sense. What is there to hide? Obviously there is something to hide or he would say who manufactures it and we would be done. Do you like that rich lied and said our product was made in Asia when he has known for years that it is manufactured in the US? I have been honest and stated facts. I am not sure why you dont like that. I think being honest and stating facts about a product that can be hazardous is not a bad way to handle myself. I apologize if you do not like how I handled myself but I am just pointing out facts. I hope you understand this and why I have to point this stuff out. I don't want anyone thinking THG is our product and that we cut corners to get a bigger profit margin. again if I have been a little agressive I apologize but it was rich's lie that got me started.

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Get off your high horse Ed. You have not stated any facts whatsoever about why your product is better than THG only you opinion. You have yet to respond to any of the things I pointed out. So I will point out again you said many people have tried to copy your ink yet you have put your processes out for all to see and that's your own fault. I feel you trying to make him reveal his manufacture is your own kind of slander saying he isn't being truthful and lying is bull. You have pretty much been the only person that has been pushing to find out who is making his product. This all from someone who never have any thought or care to this industry. And then trying to speak for the community saying that we deserve to hear who makes it. Being that your an outsider to reptiles you have no authority to speak for me. Especially since you have been contacted before from other people about changing products, but never found that to be important enough till your bottom line is effected.

Thanks for all the support!

Ed- I am done going round and round with you. I know it is easy enough to find the manufacturer if you know where and how to look. So what? Our element carries the same UL listing as you do. In addition our element also carries the CUL which I do not believe you do. Our manufacturer also carries ISO4001 and 9001 which you would also already know? Again, please lay off the propaganda.

I was going on a statement from one of your employees as to where your element or some other component you were waiting on to fill my order comes from and I also already said repeatedly that if that is wrong then I am fine with it. I really do not care where it is physically made. I concede that you make it in the USA and have already based on your word. Period. You are the guy all hung up on where it is made.

I actually stood behind your product when I was selling it, you did not. You offered no warranty and the warranty now is simply a reaction to the bind we have put you in. THG will stand behind this product and I sincerely hope you do distance yourself from our product. From this standpoint it does not matter who is actually making it, we are making it and we are standing behind it. This is a very, very common thing in the manufacturing world.

I have spent easily thousands of hours and expect I will spend thousands more. Difference is I am an adult. I do not bad mouth your product and try to hi jack threads on others products. Go find your own thread to rant in. When I am asked why I switched my answer is pretty standard, I have more of a problem with your company than your product. Been over this and you are providing a great example of why. Your product is more than adequate to do this job and hope it continues to do so.

So, collectively at THG we have decided to stop messing with you. This is going around and around again and becoming tedious. All of this ground has been covered and just because you do not like an answer does not mean that it has not been answered.

On the humidity and temps effecting oxidation- Ever been to Florida? Without direct exposure to the elements you are just fine.

We have a terrific product with consistent and even heating performance. We have seen that in our in-house testing, and gotten that feedback from independent users and customers.



We are going to focus on selling the THG heat tape and servicing our customers. Ed- we are not going to respond to your round and round arguments anymore, that is not productive. We believe in our product and we stand behind it.



I am happy to answer questions about the THG products or applications. The THG line of heat tape for sale at next week's NARBC Tinley Park show, to those out there that want to actually see this in person come and check it out, you won't be disappointed!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ed gilmartin

John

My point exactly. You trusted him when he sold our heat tape but he let you know that it was us that manufactured it. He did bot make up a name like THG and hide who manufactures flexwatt. He won't tell you who manufactures the THG film. Why? Does not make sense. What is there to hide? Obviously there is something to hide or he would say who manufactures it and we would be done. Do you like that rich lied and said our product was made in Asia when he has known for years that it is manufactured in the US? I have been honest and stated facts. I am not sure why you dont like that. I think being honest and stating facts about a product that can be hazardous is not a bad way to handle myself. I apologize if you do not like how I handled myself but I am just pointing out facts. I hope you understand this and why I have to point this stuff out. I don't want anyone thinking THG is our product and that we cut corners to get a bigger profit margin. again if I have been a little agressive I apologize but it was rich's lie that got me started.

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I'll break this down for you.

1) I do not have to defend Rich, period. He knows more than I ever will about any of this. I do not have any stake in this and only put my two cents in because your attitude irked me. I don't even like Rich (just kidding).

2) I somehow got the idea that Flexwatt was manufactured in Canada. Not sure how I came up with that. I had my concerns about your product but Rich explained how I could use it and keep my snakes relatively safe so I bought some. Rich never told me that Flexwatt was made in Asia but I would have felt better about it over being made in Canada. No offense Canadians.

3) Rich never refused to tell me where his tape is made. He refused to tell YOU, his competition. Again, smart guy.

4) I agree that Rich should state the facts about a product. For years Rich told his customers that Flexwatt could be hazardous and could cause damage to our equipment and death to our reptiles. He explained that Flexwatt could even harm us if not used properly. But he also told us how to avoid these horrible situations and put our safety and the safety of our pets first.

5) Please don't be concerned that anyone will mistake THG for Flexwatt. You can see the difference when you look at it and when you feel it.

Hopefully I made my points clearly. No need to respond.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reptilebasics

Thanks for all the support!

Ed- I am done going round and round with you. I know it is easy enough to find the manufacturer if you know where and how to look. So what? Our element carries the same UL listing as you do. In addition our element also carries the CUL which I do not believe you do. Our manufacturer also carries ISO4001 and 9001 which you would also already know? Again, please lay off the propaganda.

I was going on a statement from one of your employees as to where your element or some other component you were waiting on to fill my order comes from and I also already said repeatedly that if that is wrong then I am fine with it. I really do not care where it is physically made. I concede that you make it in the USA and have already based on your word. Period. You are the guy all hung up on where it is made.

I actually stood behind your product when I was selling it, you did not. You offered no warranty and the warranty now is simply a reaction to the bind we have put you in. THG will stand behind this product and I sincerely hope you do distance yourself from our product. From this standpoint it does not matter who is actually making it, we are making it and we are standing behind it. This is a very, very common thing in the manufacturing world.

I have spent easily thousands of hours and expect I will spend thousands more. Difference is I am an adult. I do not bad mouth your product and try to hi jack threads on others products. Go find your own thread to rant in. When I am asked why I switched my answer is pretty standard, I have more of a problem with your company than your product. Been over this and you are providing a great example of why. Your product is more than adequate to do this job and hope it continues to do so.

So, collectively at THG we have decided to stop messing with you. This is going around and around again and becoming tedious. All of this ground has been covered and just because you do not like an answer does not mean that it has not been answered.

On the humidity and temps effecting oxidation- Ever been to Florida? Without direct exposure to the elements you are just fine.

We have a terrific product with consistent and even heating performance. We have seen that in our in-house testing, and gotten that feedback from independent users and customers.



We are going to focus on selling the THG heat tape and servicing our customers. Ed- we are not going to respond to your round and round arguments anymore, that is not productive. We believe in our product and we stand behind it.



I am happy to answer questions about the THG products or applications. The THG line of heat tape for sale at next week's NARBC Tinley Park show, to those out there that want to actually see this in person come and check it out, you won't be disappointed!

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Our element carries the same UL listing as you do - This is untrue. We have the only UL listed thin film radiant heat. Your UR recognition means it applies to components that meet applicable standards but they may need to be incorporated in specific ways to make it safe. When you have a UL listed product like we do it means that you have follow up inspections to make sure you continue to make it safe and not only made safe to pass satisfy initial inspection.

Our manufacturer also carries ISO4001 and 9001 which you would also already know? – I don’t think so!
I was going on a statement from one of your employees as to where your element or some other component you were waiting on to fill my order comes from – Again not true!

We are making it and we are standing behind it. – Another untrue statement. And this product was also not made for the reptile industry. You and I both know that. It is a by product for floor heat etc.

I do not bad mouth your product and try to hi jack threads on others products. – This is the sole reason I even got on these forums. To correct your lies about our product.

So, collectively at THG we have decided to stop messing with you. This is going around and around again and becoming tedious. All of this ground has been covered and just because you do not like an answer does not mean that it has not been answered. – I haven’t seen one answer that is actually based on facts

On the humidity and temps effecting oxidation- Ever been to Florida? Without direct exposure to the elements you are just fine. – What has Florida got to do with oxidization? Oxidization occurs in dry air and is very slightly increased in damp conditions. But humidity does not cause oxidization.

I too will stop with this round and round. You bad mouthed our product saying we were made in Asia, we ignored you, we use the same flawed copper bus bars, the THG is more stable etc. That is why I looked at who manufactures THG film and thought you were crazy to start this. Especially that the product is one of the most unstable products available. Yes you will get by for a short time but that won’t last too long. When you decided to switch we asked you if that was the case and said OK no problem. Right? So if you had not lied then that would have been it. If you had said we switched because we could get it at a quarter of the cost because it uses cheaper components I would have respected that and said good luck. Going forward lets be honest and there will be room for both products in the market. This will only be beneficial to your community.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JohnNJ

I'll break this down for you.

1) I do not have to defend Rich, period. He knows more than I ever will about any of this. I do not have any stake in this and only put my two cents in because your attitude irked me. I don't even like Rich (just kidding).

2) I somehow got the idea that Flexwatt was manufactured in Canada. Not sure how I came up with that. I had my concerns about your product but Rich explained how I could use it and keep my snakes relatively safe so I bought some. Rich never told me that Flexwatt was made in Asia but I would have felt better about it over being made in Canada. No offense Canadians.

3) Rich never refused to tell me where his tape is made. He refused to tell YOU, his competition. Again, smart guy. - I know who makes it John. I just feel that he should let you know. you are not talking about something that if it fails its no big deal.

4) I agree that Rich should state the facts about a product. For years Rich told his customers that Flexwatt could be hazardous and could cause damage to our equipment and death to our reptiles. He explained that Flexwatt could even harm us if not used properly. But he also told us how to avoid these horrible situations and put our safety and the safety of our pets first.



5) Please don't be concerned that anyone will mistake THG for Flexwatt. You can see the difference when you look at it and when you feel it.

Hopefully I made my points clearly. No need to respond.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ed gilmartin

I was going on a statement from one of your employees as to where your element or some other component you were waiting on to fill my order comes from – Again not true!

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How do you know one of your people didn't say anything like that. Oh yes I forgot you are everywhere at all times

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ed gilmartin

We are making it and we are standing behind it. – Another untrue statement. And this product was also not made for the reptile industry. You and I both know that. It is a by product for floor heat etc.

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How can you say they will not stand behind it? Also how can you say it wasn't made for the reptile industry?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ed gilmartin

I do not bad mouth your product and try to hi jack threads on others products. – This is the sole reason I even got on these forums. To correct your lies about our product.

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I'm sorry but you have bad mouthed the product quite a bit. As to hi jacking threads this one is a perfect example. The OP I don't think ever did mention you as the compeditor. Only that it was THG Heat tape test results. I have not hears any lies about your product as of yet. Rich said that he was told about something having to be ordered from overseas and that is where that came from. I believe Rich also said that he was sorry about that but you keep pounding him about it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ed gilmartin

On the humidity and temps effecting oxidation- Ever been to Florida? Without direct exposure to the elements you are just fine. – What has Florida got to do with oxidization? Oxidization occurs in dry air and is very slightly increased in damp conditions. But humidity does not cause oxidization.

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Yes you are a bit correct but it does increase quite a bit when you are talking damp conditions. I mean my house is over 100 years old and the wiring is just fine. the key word is exposure. If the connections are covered with insulation there would be limited exposure. You have yet to answer any of my questions. Mainly with your connectors. When they crimp down don't the teeth go into the bus? in doing so it would go through the tin coating and expose the copper? In doing so you would be opening it up to oxidation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ed gilmartin

I too will stop with this round and round. You bad mouthed our product saying we were made in Asia, we ignored you, we use the same flawed copper bus bars, the THG is more stable etc. That is why I looked at who manufactures THG film and thought you were crazy to start this. Especially that the product is one of the most unstable products available. Yes you will get by for a short time but that won’t last too long. When you decided to switch we asked you if that was the case and said OK no problem. Right? So if you had not lied then that would have been it. If you had said we switched because we could get it at a quarter of the cost because it uses cheaper components I would have respected that and said good luck. Going forward lets be honest and there will be room for both products in the market. This will only be beneficial to your community.

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You are bad mouthing them in this paragraph in doing so just trying to egg them on. The only reason you have started doing this is because it I think it is hurting your bottom line more than you know and you are backtracking about something that you never cared about in the first place.

I mean I am a customer I have commented on, with this one makes it 3 of your posts not and not 1 reply from you to me. To me this shows that I must be hitting a nerve that have some truth to them that you can not stand. I will say again and I should post the message that you sent me on here back on Jan 8th. that sounds so much like a threat to THG that it is not funny.
You need to chill out and face the facts that someone else has entered a domain that you though you had cornered but got the floor pulled out from under you. Plus you really lost me when you started putting numbers out there on the other thread. That in itself was really unprofessional.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mattb

Ok here we go again.

#1 from both posts that you ramble in you seem to be the only one that just has to know who manufactures the new product. It seems you would want to know since it is the biggest competition that you have in an industry that you never cared about anyway until Rich and Robyn came out with this new heat tape.

#2 I don’t find it one bit suspicious that they don’t reveall it. Does KFC tell you what their secret recipe is? You stated that you have other companies trying to steal your mixes so it would be your own fault for putting your processes out there.

#3 So you tell Rich to tell us what tests he ran to prove it was stable then in your rambling you say you tested and you don’t even say how you tested and in what conditions you tested. I am sure I could do the same to your product as well. Everything can be made to fail under the right conditions.



#1 Ok the first sentence makes no sense at all.

#2 Who are you to say that Rich and Robyn will not stand behind their product? Just because they will not shout out to the world who makes it does not mean that they will not stand behind it.

#3 You say that you are not bullying. Well as far as I could see your biggest problem was Rich saying where your product was not right. Ok I can understand you wanting to correct that. However you have gone far beyond that saying in the other thread that you will make sure the results on the test you run on his product will not be pretty. Also nothing I have seen on this thread has made any comments as to where your product was made yet you still bring that up.

#4 I am all about being made in the USA but sometimes it is just not possible. So you can just stop that. How many thing in your own home are made in the USA? Your TV? Your Car? Your computer? So just because its made in the US does not mean that it is quality. There are a lot of thing that are made in the US that are crap. So not a valid point.

#5 Again I ask you. How long after you started making your product did you receive your ISO certs and UL listing? These things do not come over night so I am betting that you were selling your product for a while before you got them.



I find it hard to believe that you could not take people suggestions when it came to these things instead you have to hire someone once competition comes into town and has your back against the wall. I think you approving these things and trying to push them out ASAP has me more worried about those products since you are doing it to get back into a market that you never cared about in the first place.



#1 As stated in my comments above. How long did it take from the time you started selling them to the time they were UL listed? Again its not a process that happens overnight.

#2 As stated in my earlier comments to installing the connector it doesn’t matter which it is it can always fail.

#3 I would not doubt that Rich has spent thousands of hours explaining your connectors does not seem farfetched to me. Rich is one of the few people who will make sure his customer service is second to none and as long as he has sold your product he would take the time to help anyone that had a question. Usually within an hour or two not ignoring it for a few months. Plus what would you tell people if they called you. One they would have got a customer service person and two you had no cares about our industry anyway until it started hurting your pocket book.

#4 Calibrating your tools by hand I think is BS it is my thought that you have the dies custom made and you check one in each batch to see if it works. While we are on the topic of that where are your crimpers made? What exactly would your warranty cover if something were to happen.



This whole paragraph only needs one response. BS. All home and car wiring is copper. And with your connectors it would punch through the tin coating and expose the copper or whatever was underneath. That is why you cover the connectors so that the bus is not exposed to the open air and moisture.



Again you say that you are not bullying but this is just threat after threat. Do you do the same thing when you go somewhere to eat and they won’t tell you their secret recipe? Who is to say that your product is far superior? Of course you because you have everything in this community to lose. You have already stated many times before that you never cared about this industry before THG heat tape came out. So that would mean that your motivation now would strictly be the loss of money in your pocket because there is someone that truly cares about this industry that is making a product made just for us.



You are right that we love our animals. I cannot speak for all the other owners in this industry only myself. You talk about Safety standards. I would always trust Rich and Robyn any day over someone who only has their eye on the bottom line. Everyone in this hobby/industry know about the tragedy at Pro Exotics and I really doubt that Robyn would put his name behind something that was not safe.

I wish your new reptile expert the best of luck. With that said I am laid off at the moment and I don’t even know if I would want to be that expert. He or she has their work cut out for them in terms of you coming out and pretty much attacking some of the most respected people for supplies in our industry/hobby. Just know that every word you say makes a big impact on people some maybe in a good way but often in a bad way.

I know I have been long winded and if anyone else has anything to point out that I missed feel free to.

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#1 from both posts that you ramble in you seem to be the only one that just has to know who manufactures the new product. It seems you would want to know since it is the biggest competition that you have in an industry that you never cared about anyway until Rich and Robyn came out with this new heat tape. - I already know and Rich knows that I know so don’t think this is me trying to get something out of him. That was easy. The poor ink mix gave it away as well as the UR number on the tape. Take a look yourself you will feel very foolish when you find out and reread your comments!

#2 I don’t find it one bit suspicious that they don’t reveall it. Does KFC tell you what their secret recipe is? You stated that you have other companies trying to steal your mixes so it would be your own fault for putting your processes out there. – Exactly that is what im getting at. Like KFC we will not disclose our ink mix or make up. But we will disclose who we are just like KFC lets you know they are KFC. Would you buy “Kentucky Fried Chicken” from an unknown person claiming he is KFC but will not disclose anything more? We disclose or manufacturing process so you know you are getting a safe product but we wont tell you or ink mix. Any reputable company is not afraid to disclose who they are. To use your analogy Apple do not sell the Ipad/Ipod/Iphone and hide Apples name!!

#3 So you tell Rich to tell us what tests he ran to prove it was stable then in your rambling you say you tested and you don’t even say how you tested and in what conditions you tested. I am sure I could do the same to your product as well. Everything can be made to fail under the right conditions. – It was an accelerated ink test. It shows stability over time without having to wait years to find out. Give it a try and see if our product fluctuates more than +/- 1%.



#1 Ok the first sentence makes no sense at all. – Rich said that I think if we don’t make it then it is not good. Therefore I stated that the only company that makes a product that is close to our is FLexel. You will be familiar with the Ultratherm they make. Read it again and you will understand what I am saying.

#2 Who are you to say that Rich and Robyn will not stand behind their product? Just because they will not shout out to the world who makes it does not mean that they will not stand behind it. – If you have nothing to hide I could have been shut up after the first time I posted. I am sure they will have a warranty if they stand behind it.

#3 You say that you are not bullying. Well as far as I could see your biggest problem was Rich saying where your product was not right. Ok I can understand you wanting to correct that. However you have gone far beyond that saying in the other thread that you will make sure the results on the test you run on his product will not be pretty. Also nothing I have seen on this thread has made any comments as to where your product was made yet you still bring that up. – I don’t have to make sure of anything it is what it is. If I came across as saying I would make sure it failed then I apologize. I would not do that. If it was a good product I would admit that and move on. I am pissed that he would lie about our product. I think you would feel the same if lies were told about something you are proud of.

#4 I am all about being made in the USA but sometimes it is just not possible. So you can just stop that. How many thing in your own home are made in the USA? Your TV? Your Car? Your computer? So just because its made in the US does not mean that it is quality. There are a lot of thing that are made in the US that are crap. So not a valid point. – Agreed. But the only reason I am repeating this is because when questioned by a breeder Rich said ours was made in Asia to try to put us on the same level as THG knowing that THG was inferior. That is what got me annoyed to begin with.

#5 Again I ask you. How long after you started making your product did you receive your ISO certs and UL listing? These things do not come over night so I am betting that you were selling your product for a while before you got them. – You are 100% right. When we invented thin film radiant heat in 1980 there were no standards for it and it took a while to get UL to add a standard because we were the only company that made the product. Now we are the only UL listed radiant heat available.



I find it hard to believe that you could not take people suggestions when it came to these things instead you have to hire someone once competition comes into town and has your back against the wall. I think you approving these things and trying to push them out ASAP has me more worried about those products since you are doing it to get back into a market that you never cared about in the first place. – We have been manufacturing thin film radiant heat since 1980. We add new screens easily and change watt densities on demand. No need to worry. It is not that we did not care it is that we did not understand your industry. I am not trying to say I am a reptile expert. That would be a lie. There are a lot of people that do not understand your industry. I have to be honest I never thought it would interest me but after checking out our reps animals. Pretty dam cool. My mind has changed. Our back are not up against the wall. It was the lie about our product that got my attention.



#1 As stated in my comments above. How long did it take from the time you started selling them to the time they were UL listed? Again its not a process that happens overnight. – Correct it take 90 days.

#2 As stated in my earlier comments to installing the connector it doesn’t matter which it is it can always fail. – Both can fail. But the chances of arcing are a hell of a lot higher when you pre punch a hole. We have a similar connection for embedded products but your use is not embedded in a ceiling or in a slab that cannot be moved once installed. You have to constantly move the product. Very dangerous in this environment. It looks to me that the manufacturer said “here use these connections” rather than think to say “we need something more secure for use where the product will be moved around on a continuous basis”. This is not the manufacturer or Richs fault. It is a common mistake.

#3 I would not doubt that Rich has spent thousands of hours explaining your connectors does not seem farfetched to me. Rich is one of the few people who will make sure his customer service is second to none and as long as he has sold your product he would take the time to help anyone that had a question. Usually within an hour or two not ignoring it for a few months. Plus what would you tell people if they called you. One they would have got a customer service person and two you had no cares about our industry anyway until it started hurting your pocket book. – when did we ignore you for months? Did you get a customer service person when you called? It is not that we were ignoring your industry. We thought you had what you needed and we knew it was safe. I think you will agree that this will just be better for your industry. Where I am from Men do NOT carry pocket books!

#4 Calibrating your tools by hand I think is BS it is my thought that you have the dies custom made and you check one in each batch to see if it works. While we are on the topic of that where are your crimpers made? What exactly would your warranty cover if something were to happen. – Nope you cannot have them custom made. They come with an adjuster that has to be set using our 9 and 16 mil films. This cannot even be done by machine. All done by hand. We do not manufacture crimp tools so we do NOT warranty them.



This whole paragraph only needs one response. BS. All home and car wiring is copper. – Before the 60s it was TIN PLATED copper. Now I only know of aluminum wiring. Maybe its time to move houses. And with your connectors it would punch through the tin coating and expose the copper or whatever was underneath. And that is exactly why we use the UL rated AMP connectors and printed silver. You are scraping the bottom of the barrel with this one. That is why you cover the connectors so that the bus is not exposed to the open air and moisture. – The “cover” is not air proof. Unless THG suck the air out before the tape is covered but you would probably have to have the connections made before they leave the manufacturing plant.



Again you say that you are not bullying but this is just threat after threat. – I think you mean fact after fact. Do you do the same thing when you go somewhere to eat and they won’t tell you their secret recipe? - No but if I am in Burger King I know its burger king. They do not hide that. I am not looking for their ink mix I just thought they should be open about the manufacturer. Don’t you find it funny that such a great product hides the manufacturer? Who is to say that your product is far superior? I just stated all the reasons why it is superior. Read the facts again and let me know how THG is superior or even close to ours. I just stated the costly materials we use as opposed to cutting corners and the processes. We make top quality products and have high standard to manufacture to in the US. Of course you because you have everything in this community to lose. You have already stated many times before that you never cared about this industry before THG heat tape came out. - No I did not. I stated that we never heard a need to change anything. I do not understand your community but to say that I don’t care is different than not understanding. So that would mean that your motivation now would strictly be the loss of money in your pocket because there is someone that truly cares about this industry that is making a product made just for us. - don’t kid yourself. THG is not made just for you. You are an afterthought. I admit you were an afterthought by us also but now that we took notice this will change. This is a great thing for your community. We thought you were satisfied with what we made and now we know there are other steps we could take and we will take them. I apologize for this but all our distributors and the new distributors we signed up recently have been very happy.



You are right that we love our animals. I cannot speak for all the other owners in this industry only myself. You talk about Safety standards. I would always trust Rich and Robyn any day over someone who only has their eye on the bottom line. Everyone in this hobby/industry know about the tragedy at Pro Exotics and I really doubt that Robyn would put his name behind something that was not safe. – If I had my eye on the bottom line I would be focused on military targets or primary heat with solar PV or high speed rail deicing etc. We failed you and will fix that. The first step was to spend money to hire someone from your industry. We will not make a lot of money with the additional expenses but will definitely not lose because people think the Korean knock off is ours. I am not saying rich and robyn would not want a safe product for you. That would be absurd. What I am saying is that they and you should look at the facts I am pointing out and question them. Do you think a Korean company will tell Rich and Robyn about the instability of their ink or the cheap current carrying buss bars and how they could be dangerous in your application? Come on man. If you think that I have a bridge I’ll sell you in Brooklyn!

I wish your new reptile expert the best of luck. - Thank you. He has already added three distributors and is pushing us to get new, needed products for your industry. With that said I am laid off at the moment and I don’t even know if I would want to be that expert. He or she has their work cut out for them in terms of you coming out and pretty much attacking some of the most respected people for supplies in our industry/hobby. – I wish you all the best in finding some work. I know it must be very difficult. I am not attacking anyone. If I came across as doing so I apologize. That is not in my nature but I will correct lies and state facts to set us apart. That’s all. Just know that every word you say makes a big impact on people some maybe in a good way but often in a bad way. – I hope not. And again I wish you all the best. I am going to send this to our new rep. If he keeps growing at the rate he has been he will need help. I am obviously not promising anything but hate to hear anyone is out of work. I respect your sticking up for someone you have been dealing with for years. I have people that do the same for me. It is a good trait to have. No hard feelings but if people read this and demand answers before purchasing an electric heating product then I am happy. If they get the right answers and feel comfortable then buy what you feel most comfortable with.

I know I have been long winded and if anyone else has anything to point out that I missed feel free to.

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Originally Posted by mattb

Ok here we go again.

#1 from both posts that you ramble in you seem to be the only one that just has to know who manufactures the new product. It seems you would want to know since it is the biggest competition that you have in an industry that you never cared about anyway until Rich and Robyn came out with this new heat tape.

#2 I don’t find it one bit suspicious that they don’t reveall it. Does KFC tell you what their secret recipe is? You stated that you have other companies trying to steal your mixes so it would be your own fault for putting your processes out there.

#3 So you tell Rich to tell us what tests he ran to prove it was stable then in your rambling you say you tested and you don’t even say how you tested and in what conditions you tested. I am sure I could do the same to your product as well. Everything can be made to fail under the right conditions.



#1 Ok the first sentence makes no sense at all.

#2 Who are you to say that Rich and Robyn will not stand behind their product? Just because they will not shout out to the world who makes it does not mean that they will not stand behind it.

#3 You say that you are not bullying. Well as far as I could see your biggest problem was Rich saying where your product was not right. Ok I can understand you wanting to correct that. However you have gone far beyond that saying in the other thread that you will make sure the results on the test you run on his product will not be pretty. Also nothing I have seen on this thread has made any comments as to where your product was made yet you still bring that up.

#4 I am all about being made in the USA but sometimes it is just not possible. So you can just stop that. How many thing in your own home are made in the USA? Your TV? Your Car? Your computer? So just because its made in the US does not mean that it is quality. There are a lot of thing that are made in the US that are crap. So not a valid point.

#5 Again I ask you. How long after you started making your product did you receive your ISO certs and UL listing? These things do not come over night so I am betting that you were selling your product for a while before you got them.



I find it hard to believe that you could not take people suggestions when it came to these things instead you have to hire someone once competition comes into town and has your back against the wall. I think you approving these things and trying to push them out ASAP has me more worried about those products since you are doing it to get back into a market that you never cared about in the first place.



#1 As stated in my comments above. How long did it take from the time you started selling them to the time they were UL listed? Again its not a process that happens overnight.

#2 As stated in my earlier comments to installing the connector it doesn’t matter which it is it can always fail.

#3 I would not doubt that Rich has spent thousands of hours explaining your connectors does not seem farfetched to me. Rich is one of the few people who will make sure his customer service is second to none and as long as he has sold your product he would take the time to help anyone that had a question. Usually within an hour or two not ignoring it for a few months. Plus what would you tell people if they called you. One they would have got a customer service person and two you had no cares about our industry anyway until it started hurting your pocket book.

#4 Calibrating your tools by hand I think is BS it is my thought that you have the dies custom made and you check one in each batch to see if it works. While we are on the topic of that where are your crimpers made? What exactly would your warranty cover if something were to happen.



This whole paragraph only needs one response. BS. All home and car wiring is copper. And with your connectors it would punch through the tin coating and expose the copper or whatever was underneath. That is why you cover the connectors so that the bus is not exposed to the open air and moisture.



Again you say that you are not bullying but this is just threat after threat. Do you do the same thing when you go somewhere to eat and they won’t tell you their secret recipe? Who is to say that your product is far superior? Of course you because you have everything in this community to lose. You have already stated many times before that you never cared about this industry before THG heat tape came out. So that would mean that your motivation now would strictly be the loss of money in your pocket because there is someone that truly cares about this industry that is making a product made just for us.



You are right that we love our animals. I cannot speak for all the other owners in this industry only myself. You talk about Safety standards. I would always trust Rich and Robyn any day over someone who only has their eye on the bottom line. Everyone in this hobby/industry know about the tragedy at Pro Exotics and I really doubt that Robyn would put his name behind something that was not safe.

I wish your new reptile expert the best of luck. With that said I am laid off at the moment and I don’t even know if I would want to be that expert. He or she has their work cut out for them in terms of you coming out and pretty much attacking some of the most respected people for supplies in our industry/hobby. Just know that every word you say makes a big impact on people some maybe in a good way but often in a bad way.

I know I have been long winded and if anyone else has anything to point out that I missed feel free to.

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Originally Posted by mattb

Get off your high horse Ed. You have not stated any facts whatsoever about why your product is better than THG only you opinion. You have yet to respond to any of the things I pointed out. So I will point out again you said many people have tried to copy your ink yet you have put your processes out for all to see and that's your own fault. I feel you trying to make him reveal his manufacture is your own kind of slander saying he isn't being truthful and lying is bull. You have pretty much been the only person that has been pushing to find out who is making his product. This all from someone who never have any thought or care to this industry. And then trying to speak for the community saying that we deserve to hear who makes it. Being that your an outsider to reptiles you have no authority to speak for me. Especially since you have been contacted before from other people about changing products, but never found that to be important enough till your bottom line is effected.

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Matt

I have never been contacted by anyone about this product until I posted on this site for the first time a month or so ago. I then hired a rep from your industry. I am not just speaking to your community. I understand the product we invented and are the world leader in. Whether it is for reptile heat or floor warming or whatever this product can be dangerous. it is the nature of the product. I think anyone installing or using it for any purpose should be informed of the manufacturer. You wouldnt buy an electric heater or electric toaster from a company that does not manufacture the product and hides who does. Would you?

This is like one of those Turbo Tax vs. H&R Block commercials : )

Ok I just had to bring this back up after your comment about me finding a new house. I had to do my research so I knew exactly that I was giving correct information. I just will not stand for someone telling me that I should go looking for a new house. I am sorry to everyone for bringing it back up but I had to stand up for myself here.

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Originally Posted by Ed gilmartin

Exactly that is what im getting at. Like KFC we will not disclose our ink mix or make up. But we will disclose who we are just like KFC lets you know they are KFC. Would you buy “Kentucky Fried Chicken” from an unknown person claiming he is KFC but will not disclose anything more? We disclose or manufacturing process so you know you are getting a safe product but we wont tell you or ink mix. Any reputable company is not afraid to disclose who they are. To use your analogy Apple do not sell the Ipad/Ipod/Iphone and hide Apples name!!

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Hate to tell you but Apple came up with the iPhone and sells it, but they do not manufacture it all their parts are subcontracted.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ed gilmartin

Where I am from Men do NOT carry pocket books!

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So what do you carry it in? A pocket book is another name for a wallet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ed gilmartin

Before the 60s it was TIN PLATED copper. Now I only know of aluminum wiring. Maybe its time to move houses. And with your connectors it would punch through the tin coating and expose the copper or whatever was underneath. And that is exactly why we use the UL rated AMP connectors and printed silver. You are scraping the bottom of the barrel with this one. That is why you cover the connectors so that the bus is not exposed to the open air and moisture. – The “cover” is not air proof. Unless THG suck the air out before the tape is covered but you would probably have to have the connections made before they leave the manufacturing plant.

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Ok this comment really got me going and led me to do some research and is the main reason why I am dredging this post back up just to respond back to you. How dare you say that its time for me to find a new house. I bet you have haven’t done your research. If all you know is Aluminum wiring I think its time for YOU to find a new house. From my local electricians union house wiring is 100% copper. Now from my own research.

“In North American residential construction, aluminum wire was used to wire entire houses for a short time from the late 1960s to the late 1970s during a period of high copper prices. Wiring devices (outlets, switches, fans, etc.) at the time were not designed with the particular properties of aluminum wire in mind and there were problems with the properties of the wire itself. Older wiring devices not originally rated for aluminum wiring present a fire hazard. Revised manufacturing standards for wiring devices were required.”

Now heavy duty aluminum wire is used in the transmission of electricity due to the cost involved but not in houses.

“Problems with aluminum wires
Aluminum wires have been implicated in house fires. There are several possible reasons why these connections failed. The two main reasons were improper installation and the differences in the coefficient of expansion between aluminum wire used in the 1960s and the terminations.”

Also you may want to check your insurance if you do have aluminum because I also found this.

“Hazard insurance
In some states of the United States, home hazard insurance will not cover homes with any aluminum wiring, and some insurance companies that claim to cover it charge a higher premium than for homes with copper wiring.”

such drama on here. I think its funny that matt guy is a cheerleader but besides that i have purchased both flexwatt and thg from reptile basics and personally i think the flexwatt gets hotter than thg. I will continue to use both and see how it works out.:gj:

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Originally Posted by Jam Reptiles

such drama on here. I think its funny that matt guy is a cheerleader but besides that i have purchased both flexwatt and thg from reptile basics and personally i think the flexwatt gets hotter than thg. I will continue to use both and see how it works out.:gj:

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So I am just a cheerleader am I? Just because I stand up for people that I have respect for. Well then I guess I am. I will say I have used both as well. Considering flexwatt was pretty much the only thing before THG. When it comes down to it I am sure that you would stand up for someone you respect or something that you are passionate about.