New THG Heat Tape Test Results are in

[Reptilebasics]

Missed the oxidizing copper- Thanks Kite-

Unless you are in some unpleasant conditions the copper oxidation is not a problem. How do I know this you may ask? For a quick, practical answer look at your house wiring. Wire nuts are used in houses, buildings and anywhere else you have electrical wiring and the copper is exposed to air, even more so than this application. The exposed copper wire gets darker in color which is a small amount of oxidation, but thats it. The connection is still sound and good.

[KingPythons]

I have spent thousands and thousands of hours educating, helping and fixing problems with your element and connectors over the years with real world reptile customers. Thousands more educating people on how to use this product as safely as possible specifically in our hobby. Our application is a unique one and in many ways lends itself to problems if one is not careful and paying attention. It requires regular inspection of the element as there are lots of opportunities for wear. NO ONE, especially not your company, has even come close to this. I am hoping you hired someone up to the task and good luck.

^ This is why I would buy from Rich! Thanks for the heat tape and Theremostat!

[kitedemon]

Rich that is likely very true. Although 80-100 degrees and 60 percent RH is hardly normal house conditions. I would expect perhaps a bit more than a home in a equal time. I also suspect it would self arrest as well.

Just had a thought, you use a rubber tape to seal the connection don't you? You could always add a pair of extra pieces over the cut end to encapsulate the bus in an enclosed envelope.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ed gilmartin]

The last half of 2012 is a long time ago on the copper huh?

We made a decision to keep our manufacturer to ourselves, it is proprietary information. As our competitor I am sure you would very much like to know but we are not going to tell you. I think based on your past comments that no matter who is making it that if it is not you then it must be terrible so shall we just assume you will not be satisfied? Do you really think that we are so stupid? Please, continue to underestimate. You can try to bully and distract all you like but thats how it is. Users that have held and tried our product love it. If someone chooses yours because they know it or it is made in the USA then that is up to them and my feelings are not hurt- thats life in the big city. Can't really see why you seem to think that this is such a big point other than you really do not have any others?

It is a good thing you (Calorique) are stepping up to the plate some for the reptile community finally. It is pretty amusing it took this to get your company to do it. I flat out told Mike Collins that this was going to happen when he was your VP of marketing and sales and he politely blew me off. Now I am glad he did.

We can also go back and forth endlessly on the connectors but a tip for you, now that you all sudden care- The AMP connectors are great BUT they can be very deceptive as to whether they are crimped properly or not. I have talked to countless people over the years that thought they had them smushed but did not. Or they tried to re use them after the teeth had already been crushed. That is the biggest danger of all. While this is not your fault or mine it is a reality of this market. With the rivet and the eyelet inside the laminate it is very easy. If the eyelet pivots it is not done properly. Done. Even if the connection is not all it should be the larger, flat surface area of the eyelet makes for a better contact. Can people still do it wrong, as Matt pointed out the answer is yes. All we can both do is try our best to make sure they get it right with the respective systems and lay off the bickering.

I have spent thousands and thousands of hours educating, helping and fixing problems with your element and connectors over the years with real world reptile customers. Thousands more educating people on how to use this product as safely as possible specifically in our hobby. Our application is a unique one and in many ways lends itself to problems if one is not careful and paying attention. It requires regular inspection of the element as there are lots of opportunities for wear. NO ONE, especially not your company, has even come close to this. I am hoping you hired someone up to the task and good luck.

Rich
I can read the UR code on the tape and I already know who manufactures it. I find it amazing that you would not let people in your community know who manufactures a product that is electric and produces heat. What are you possibly hiding? I already know. I think you should let people make their own decisions based on the manufacturing process. Don’t you think it is very suspicious that you are hiding this? What could you possibly have to hide? You say you had been testing it for 3 years so let people know what tests were done. What the results were etc. We are a manufacturer who have Korean companies constantly trying to steal our ink mix and technology but I still posted videos of our manufacturing process so claiming it is proprietary info is bogus. So if you won’t tell your community who manufactures the product at least let them know how you came to the conclusion that it is stable. I ran an accelerated test on THG and in 6 days the resistance dropped 16%. I know that people in your community will start to ask questions and you will have to answer them.

I don’t think that if we don’t make something that it is not good. Flexel make a good product and they are reputable. They do not hide who they are. They stand by their products. I wish Flexel had a bigger presence here in the US so the film would get a lot more awareness but I cringe when unstable Korean products get us all a bad name. I am also not bullying you. I would not even be having this conversation if you had not lied about where our product is made. That is why I continue to bring up that it is made in the USA. Because you lied and said it was made in Asia. I have also stated other points so your comments that I only have that it is made in the USA are bogus. Read my post again and let us hear your comments on how the THG manufacturer can state that they have a reputable manufacturing process. I can post our ISO certs, UL listing etc if you would like but you already know we have them. You did business with us for years.

As far as Mike Collins blowing you off I cannot speak to that. He was an employee for a year. I find it very hard to believe that we decided to manufacture new finished heaters and other sizes and watt densities in a one hour meeting with our reptile rep on Wednesday but you could not get this done as a distributor of ours. Think about what you are saying. You already knowingly lied saying our product was made overseas so I cannot believe this comment either.

As for the connectors they are UL listed for this purpose. Can you say the same? No you can’t. Just think about it for a second. If the punched hole is not always in contact with the rivet and there is only a slight gap the voltage carrying bus bar will send the electricity down the buss and it can jump the gap to the rivet causing a spark. It’s not that hard to understand. As far as you having to spend thousands of hours on the phone explaining our connection system seems like a long time to me. You know that we calibrate the crimp tool and will not warranty any of our products if the crimp tool is not used. The tool will not release until the connection is fully made and will also not squash the product because the calibration only allows for the exact connection. I understand that the crimp tools are expensive because they are all hand calibrated in the factory. I also understand that some distributors buy cheaper crimp tools at half the cost but they are not calibrated by us so will not make the exact connection. There is a five year warranty with our product but if the calibrated crimp tool is not used then we do not honor it. It is that simple. Cut corners and we will not warranty the product.

Rich I assumed that the three years of testing as stated on your website was actually done so I am surprised about your answers on oxidization. This should have been one of the first things you learned about the heat tape during your testing process but clearly it was not. After all the current carrying bus bars are the most critical part of the tape. Copper oxidizes and the oxides don’t stick to the copper too well. When the oxides fall off and more copper is exposed it happens again and again. No different than rust in Iron. Although Iron will not be carrying a current so not a big deal. The oxides are not very conductive. This results in poor electrical contact which then gets hot and speeds up the oxidization rate. Because they are not very conductive the oxides cause arcing, just like the rivet system could cause arcing, and this deteriorates the copper. Now as for your comment on the first half of 2012 I think you may be getting a little deceived by your eyes. Those have a copper color to them. We still use these but they are tin plated. We use them mostly in our outdoor deicing systems and some interior products. In our interior products we add expensive silver to the bus bar. Do not think that because it is a copper color that it is not tin plated. THGs are NOT tin plated. Copper is a cheap product because of the amount available and can look good when oxidized but when carrying a current it is not that safe. The oxidization looks cool in the statue of liberty making a green color but there is no current or resistance heating present.

I will be doing a lot to distance ourselves from the Korean product in the reptile community. The good news is that you lying about our manufacturing location has lead to a better product and service for your community. Reptile basics has a good name in the reptile industry and people will listen to you and we will continue to get the word out on how our product is far superior but I would challenge everyone who is thinking about THG to demand that you be open and honest about who manufactures it, what standards they manufacture to and just as important what tests you did to decide this was a safe product. Do you not think that is fair? After all it is electric and can be dangerous if not manufactured correctly. You can do it over the phone or at shows and I don’t need to know. I already know and will be curious to see people’s reactions when they find out what they have been getting.
One thing I have learned in the last couple of months is that reptile hobbyist love their animals. No different than a pet owner loves their dogs. That being said they will want to know exactly what safety standards are being met before using a product that could potentially harm their animals. They have been buying from you for years and that is the very least they deserve. Do you not agree?

[MrLang]

This again...

I only know of a handful of places I can buy heat tape by the foot as a consumer. Reptile Basics is one of them and I believe the other distributors I can think of might even be buying it from Rich. At the end of the day I'm buying the tape I have access to. If you both decide to go separate ways, bear this in mind.

Rather than going back and forth about who lied about what, I would urge you to attempt to repair relationships and provide the consumer with the safest and most functional product for our particular application. If there is a choice, I'll take safety over functionality any day of the week. I'm sure everyone here can agree they would not want to be responsible for someone's house burning down simply because they want a lower-profile or unique element to their product to distinguish it as 'better'.

I do have a question for Rich. I have an Animal Plastics rack that is grooved for 4 inch Flexwatt tape. I would like to replace my tape once a year or so. Will your THG tape fit the groove in my rack the same as the Flexwatt or does this put pressure on the Rack manufacturers to conform to one tape or the other?

Thanks.

[3skulls]

The Bean Farm and Big Apple Herp have Flexwatt by the foot.

[mattb]

I can read the UR code on the tape and I already know who manufactures it. I find it amazing that you would not let people in your community know who manufactures a product that is electric and produces heat. What are you possibly hiding? I already know. I think you should let people make their own decisions based on the manufacturing process. Don’t you think it is very suspicious that you are hiding this? What could you possibly have to hide? You say you had been testing it for 3 years so let people know what tests were done. What the results were etc. We are a manufacturer who have Korean companies constantly trying to steal our ink mix and technology but I still posted videos of our manufacturing process so claiming it is proprietary info is bogus. So if you won’t tell your community who manufactures the product at least let them know how you came to the conclusion that it is stable. I ran an accelerated test on THG and in 6 days the resistance dropped 16%. I know that people in your community will start to ask questions and you will have to answer them.

Ok here we go again.

#1 from both posts that you ramble in you seem to be the only one that just has to know who manufactures the new product. It seems you would want to know since it is the biggest competition that you have in an industry that you never cared about anyway until Rich and Robyn came out with this new heat tape.

#2 I don’t find it one bit suspicious that they don’t reveall it. Does KFC tell you what their secret recipe is? You stated that you have other companies trying to steal your mixes so it would be your own fault for putting your processes out there.

#3 So you tell Rich to tell us what tests he ran to prove it was stable then in your rambling you say you tested and you don’t even say how you tested and in what conditions you tested. I am sure I could do the same to your product as well. Everything can be made to fail under the right conditions.

I don’t think that if we don’t make something that it is not good. Flexel make a good product and they are reputable. They do not hide who they are. They stand by their products. I wish Flexel had a bigger presence here in the US so the film would get a lot more awareness but I cringe when unstable Korean products get us all a bad name. I am also not bullying you. I would not even be having this conversation if you had not lied about where our product is made. That is why I continue to bring up that it is made in the USA. Because you lied and said it was made in Asia. I have also stated other points so your comments that I only have that it is made in the USA are bogus. Read my post again and let us hear your comments on how the THG manufacturer can state that they have a reputable manufacturing process. I can post our ISO certs, UL listing etc if you would like but you already know we have them. You did business with us for years.

#1 Ok the first sentence makes no sense at all.

#2 Who are you to say that Rich and Robyn will not stand behind their product? Just because they will not shout out to the world who makes it does not mean that they will not stand behind it.

#3 You say that you are not bullying. Well as far as I could see your biggest problem was Rich saying where your product was not right. Ok I can understand you wanting to correct that. However you have gone far beyond that saying in the other thread that you will make sure the results on the test you run on his product will not be pretty. Also nothing I have seen on this thread has made any comments as to where your product was made yet you still bring that up.

#4 I am all about being made in the USA but sometimes it is just not possible. So you can just stop that. How many thing in your own home are made in the USA? Your TV? Your Car? Your computer? So just because its made in the US does not mean that it is quality. There are a lot of thing that are made in the US that are crap. So not a valid point.

#5 Again I ask you. How long after you started making your product did you receive your ISO certs and UL listing? These things do not come over night so I am betting that you were selling your product for a while before you got them.

As far as Mike Collins blowing you off I cannot speak to that. He was an employee for a year. I find it very hard to believe that we decided to manufacture new finished heaters and other sizes and watt densities in a one hour meeting with our reptile rep on Wednesday but you could not get this done as a distributor of ours. Think about what you are saying. You already knowingly lied saying our product was made overseas so I cannot believe this comment either.

I find it hard to believe that you could not take people suggestions when it came to these things instead you have to hire someone once competition comes into town and has your back against the wall. I think you approving these things and trying to push them out ASAP has me more worried about those products since you are doing it to get back into a market that you never cared about in the first place.

As for the connectors they are UL listed for this purpose. Can you say the same? No you can’t. Just think about it for a second. If the punched hole is not always in contact with the rivet and there is only a slight gap the voltage carrying bus bar will send the electricity down the buss and it can jump the gap to the rivet causing a spark. It’s not that hard to understand. As far as you having to spend thousands of hours on the phone explaining our connection system seems like a long time to me. You know that we calibrate the crimp tool and will not warranty any of our products if the crimp tool is not used. The tool will not release until the connection is fully made and will also not squash the product because the calibration only allows for the exact connection. I understand that the crimp tools are expensive because they are all hand calibrated in the factory. I also understand that some distributors buy cheaper crimp tools at half the cost but they are not calibrated by us so will not make the exact connection. There is a five year warranty with our product but if the calibrated crimp tool is not used then we do not honor it. It is that simple. Cut corners and we will not warranty the product.

#1 As stated in my comments above. How long did it take from the time you started selling them to the time they were UL listed? Again its not a process that happens overnight.

#2 As stated in my earlier comments to installing the connector it doesn’t matter which it is it can always fail.

#3 I would not doubt that Rich has spent thousands of hours explaining your connectors does not seem farfetched to me. Rich is one of the few people who will make sure his customer service is second to none and as long as he has sold your product he would take the time to help anyone that had a question. Usually within an hour or two not ignoring it for a few months. Plus what would you tell people if they called you. One they would have got a customer service person and two you had no cares about our industry anyway until it started hurting your pocket book.

#4 Calibrating your tools by hand I think is BS it is my thought that you have the dies custom made and you check one in each batch to see if it works. While we are on the topic of that where are your crimpers made? What exactly would your warranty cover if something were to happen.

Rich I assumed that the three years of testing as stated on your website was actually done so I am surprised about your answers on oxidization. This should have been one of the first things you learned about the heat tape during your testing process but clearly it was not. After all the current carrying bus bars are the most critical part of the tape. Copper oxidizes and the oxides don’t stick to the copper too well. When the oxides fall off and more copper is exposed it happens again and again. No different than rust in Iron. Although Iron will not be carrying a current so not a big deal. The oxides are not very conductive. This results in poor electrical contact which then gets hot and speeds up the oxidization rate. Because they are not very conductive the oxides cause arcing, just like the rivet system could cause arcing, and this deteriorates the copper. Now as for your comment on the first half of 2012 I think you may be getting a little deceived by your eyes. Those have a copper color to them. We still use these but they are tin plated. We use them mostly in our outdoor deicing systems and some interior products. In our interior products we add expensive silver to the bus bar. Do not think that because it is a copper color that it is not tin plated. THGs are NOT tin plated. Copper is a cheap product because of the amount available and can look good when oxidized but when carrying a current it is not that safe. The oxidization looks cool in the statue of liberty making a green color but there is no current or resistance heating present.

This whole paragraph only needs one response. BS. All home and car wiring is copper. And with your connectors it would punch through the tin coating and expose the copper or whatever was underneath. That is why you cover the connectors so that the bus is not exposed to the open air and moisture.

I will be doing a lot to distance ourselves from the Korean product in the reptile community. The good news is that you lying about our manufacturing location has lead to a better product and service for your community. Reptile basics has a good name in the reptile industry and people will listen to you and we will continue to get the word out on how our product is far superior but I would challenge everyone who is thinking about THG to demand that you be open and honest about who manufactures it, what standards they manufacture to and just as important what tests you did to decide this was a safe product. Do you not think that is fair? After all it is electric and can be dangerous if not manufactured correctly. You can do it over the phone or at shows and I don’t need to know. I already know and will be curious to see people’s reactions when they find out what they have been getting.

Again you say that you are not bullying but this is just threat after threat. Do you do the same thing when you go somewhere to eat and they won’t tell you their secret recipe? Who is to say that your product is far superior? Of course you because you have everything in this community to lose. You have already stated many times before that you never cared about this industry before THG heat tape came out. So that would mean that your motivation now would strictly be the loss of money in your pocket because there is someone that truly cares about this industry that is making a product made just for us.

One thing I have learned in the last couple of months is that reptile hobbyist love their animals. No different than a pet owner loves their dogs. That being said they will want to know exactly what safety standards are being met before using a product that could potentially harm their animals. They have been buying from you for years and that is the very least they deserve. Do you not agree?

You are right that we love our animals. I cannot speak for all the other owners in this industry only myself. You talk about Safety standards. I would always trust Rich and Robyn any day over someone who only has their eye on the bottom line. Everyone in this hobby/industry know about the tragedy at Pro Exotics and I really doubt that Robyn would put his name behind something that was not safe.

I wish your new reptile expert the best of luck. With that said I am laid off at the moment and I don’t even know if I would want to be that expert. He or she has their work cut out for them in terms of you coming out and pretty much attacking some of the most respected people for supplies in our industry/hobby. Just know that every word you say makes a big impact on people some maybe in a good way but often in a bad way.

I know I have been long winded and if anyone else has anything to point out that I missed feel free to.

[JohnNJ]

This thread gave me a headache.

Ed:

I trusted Rich when he sold me your heat tape. I still trust him and have purchased some of his new heat tape.

I don't know you and I do not like the way you have handled yourself in this forum. You have damaged your brand.

I'm sure you will forget about the reptile hobby quickly but please remember we have long memories.

John

[Ed gilmartin]

This thread gave me a headache.

Ed:

I trusted Rich when he sold me your heat tape. I still trust him and have purchased some of his new heat tape.

I don't know you and I do not like the way you have handled yourself in this forum. You have damaged your brand.

I'm sure you will forget about the reptile hobby quickly but please remember we have long memories.

John

John

My point exactly. You trusted him when he sold our heat tape but he let you know that it was us that manufactured it. He did bot make up a name like THG and hide who manufactures flexwatt. He won't tell you who manufactures the THG film. Why? Does not make sense. What is there to hide? Obviously there is something to hide or he would say who manufactures it and we would be done. Do you like that rich lied and said our product was made in Asia when he has known for years that it is manufactured in the US? I have been honest and stated facts. I am not sure why you dont like that. I think being honest and stating facts about a product that can be hazardous is not a bad way to handle myself. I apologize if you do not like how I handled myself but I am just pointing out facts. I hope you understand this and why I have to point this stuff out. I don't want anyone thinking THG is our product and that we cut corners to get a bigger profit margin. again if I have been a little agressive I apologize but it was rich's lie that got me started.

[mattb]

John

My point exactly. You trusted him when he sold our heat tape but he let you know that it was us that manufactured it. He did bot make up a name like THG and hide who manufactures flexwatt. He won't tell you who manufactures the THG film. Why? Does not make sense. What is there to hide? Obviously there is something to hide or he would say who manufactures it and we would be done. Do you like that rich lied and said our product was made in Asia when he has known for years that it is manufactured in the US? I have been honest and stated facts. I am not sure why you dont like that. I think being honest and stating facts about a product that can be hazardous is not a bad way to handle myself. I apologize if you do not like how I handled myself but I am just pointing out facts. I hope you understand this and why I have to point this stuff out. I don't want anyone thinking THG is our product and that we cut corners to get a bigger profit margin. again if I have been a little agressive I apologize but it was rich's lie that got me started.

Get off your high horse Ed. You have not stated any facts whatsoever about why your product is better than THG only you opinion. You have yet to respond to any of the things I pointed out. So I will point out again you said many people have tried to copy your ink yet you have put your processes out for all to see and that's your own fault. I feel you trying to make him reveal his manufacture is your own kind of slander saying he isn't being truthful and lying is bull. You have pretty much been the only person that has been pushing to find out who is making his product. This all from someone who never have any thought or care to this industry. And then trying to speak for the community saying that we deserve to hear who makes it. Being that your an outsider to reptiles you have no authority to speak for me. Especially since you have been contacted before from other people about changing products, but never found that to be important enough till your bottom line is effected.