#1 from both posts that you ramble in you seem to be the only one that just has to know who manufactures the new product. It seems you would want to know since it is the biggest competition that you have in an industry that you never cared about anyway until Rich and Robyn came out with this new heat tape. - I already know and Rich knows that I know so don’t think this is me trying to get something out of him. That was easy. The poor ink mix gave it away as well as the UR number on the tape. Take a look yourself you will feel very foolish when you find out and reread your comments!Originally Posted by mattb
#2 I don’t find it one bit suspicious that they don’t reveall it. Does KFC tell you what their secret recipe is? You stated that you have other companies trying to steal your mixes so it would be your own fault for putting your processes out there. – Exactly that is what im getting at. Like KFC we will not disclose our ink mix or make up. But we will disclose who we are just like KFC lets you know they are KFC. Would you buy “Kentucky Fried Chicken” from an unknown person claiming he is KFC but will not disclose anything more? We disclose or manufacturing process so you know you are getting a safe product but we wont tell you or ink mix. Any reputable company is not afraid to disclose who they are. To use your analogy Apple do not sell the Ipad/Ipod/Iphone and hide Apples name!!
#3 So you tell Rich to tell us what tests he ran to prove it was stable then in your rambling you say you tested and you don’t even say how you tested and in what conditions you tested. I am sure I could do the same to your product as well. Everything can be made to fail under the right conditions. – It was an accelerated ink test. It shows stability over time without having to wait years to find out. Give it a try and see if our product fluctuates more than +/- 1%.
#1 Ok the first sentence makes no sense at all. – Rich said that I think if we don’t make it then it is not good. Therefore I stated that the only company that makes a product that is close to our is FLexel. You will be familiar with the Ultratherm they make. Read it again and you will understand what I am saying.
#2 Who are you to say that Rich and Robyn will not stand behind their product? Just because they will not shout out to the world who makes it does not mean that they will not stand behind it. – If you have nothing to hide I could have been shut up after the first time I posted. I am sure they will have a warranty if they stand behind it.
#3 You say that you are not bullying. Well as far as I could see your biggest problem was Rich saying where your product was not right. Ok I can understand you wanting to correct that. However you have gone far beyond that saying in the other thread that you will make sure the results on the test you run on his product will not be pretty. Also nothing I have seen on this thread has made any comments as to where your product was made yet you still bring that up. – I don’t have to make sure of anything it is what it is. If I came across as saying I would make sure it failed then I apologize. I would not do that. If it was a good product I would admit that and move on. I am pissed that he would lie about our product. I think you would feel the same if lies were told about something you are proud of.
#4 I am all about being made in the USA but sometimes it is just not possible. So you can just stop that. How many thing in your own home are made in the USA? Your TV? Your Car? Your computer? So just because its made in the US does not mean that it is quality. There are a lot of thing that are made in the US that are crap. So not a valid point. – Agreed. But the only reason I am repeating this is because when questioned by a breeder Rich said ours was made in Asia to try to put us on the same level as THG knowing that THG was inferior. That is what got me annoyed to begin with.
#5 Again I ask you. How long after you started making your product did you receive your ISO certs and UL listing? These things do not come over night so I am betting that you were selling your product for a while before you got them. – You are 100% right. When we invented thin film radiant heat in 1980 there were no standards for it and it took a while to get UL to add a standard because we were the only company that made the product. Now we are the only UL listed radiant heat available.
I find it hard to believe that you could not take people suggestions when it came to these things instead you have to hire someone once competition comes into town and has your back against the wall. I think you approving these things and trying to push them out ASAP has me more worried about those products since you are doing it to get back into a market that you never cared about in the first place. – We have been manufacturing thin film radiant heat since 1980. We add new screens easily and change watt densities on demand. No need to worry. It is not that we did not care it is that we did not understand your industry. I am not trying to say I am a reptile expert. That would be a lie. There are a lot of people that do not understand your industry. I have to be honest I never thought it would interest me but after checking out our reps animals. Pretty dam cool. My mind has changed. Our back are not up against the wall. It was the lie about our product that got my attention.
#1 As stated in my comments above. How long did it take from the time you started selling them to the time they were UL listed? Again its not a process that happens overnight. – Correct it take 90 days.
#2 As stated in my earlier comments to installing the connector it doesn’t matter which it is it can always fail. – Both can fail. But the chances of arcing are a hell of a lot higher when you pre punch a hole. We have a similar connection for embedded products but your use is not embedded in a ceiling or in a slab that cannot be moved once installed. You have to constantly move the product. Very dangerous in this environment. It looks to me that the manufacturer said “here use these connections” rather than think to say “we need something more secure for use where the product will be moved around on a continuous basis”. This is not the manufacturer or Richs fault. It is a common mistake.
#3 I would not doubt that Rich has spent thousands of hours explaining your connectors does not seem farfetched to me. Rich is one of the few people who will make sure his customer service is second to none and as long as he has sold your product he would take the time to help anyone that had a question. Usually within an hour or two not ignoring it for a few months. Plus what would you tell people if they called you. One they would have got a customer service person and two you had no cares about our industry anyway until it started hurting your pocket book. – when did we ignore you for months? Did you get a customer service person when you called? It is not that we were ignoring your industry. We thought you had what you needed and we knew it was safe. I think you will agree that this will just be better for your industry. Where I am from Men do NOT carry pocket books!
#4 Calibrating your tools by hand I think is BS it is my thought that you have the dies custom made and you check one in each batch to see if it works. While we are on the topic of that where are your crimpers made? What exactly would your warranty cover if something were to happen. – Nope you cannot have them custom made. They come with an adjuster that has to be set using our 9 and 16 mil films. This cannot even be done by machine. All done by hand. We do not manufacture crimp tools so we do NOT warranty them.
This whole paragraph only needs one response. BS. All home and car wiring is copper. – Before the 60s it was TIN PLATED copper. Now I only know of aluminum wiring. Maybe its time to move houses. And with your connectors it would punch through the tin coating and expose the copper or whatever was underneath. And that is exactly why we use the UL rated AMP connectors and printed silver. You are scraping the bottom of the barrel with this one. That is why you cover the connectors so that the bus is not exposed to the open air and moisture. – The “cover” is not air proof. Unless THG suck the air out before the tape is covered but you would probably have to have the connections made before they leave the manufacturing plant.
Again you say that you are not bullying but this is just threat after threat. – I think you mean fact after fact. Do you do the same thing when you go somewhere to eat and they won’t tell you their secret recipe? - No but if I am in Burger King I know its burger king. They do not hide that. I am not looking for their ink mix I just thought they should be open about the manufacturer. Don’t you find it funny that such a great product hides the manufacturer? Who is to say that your product is far superior? I just stated all the reasons why it is superior. Read the facts again and let me know how THG is superior or even close to ours. I just stated the costly materials we use as opposed to cutting corners and the processes. We make top quality products and have high standard to manufacture to in the US. Of course you because you have everything in this community to lose. You have already stated many times before that you never cared about this industry before THG heat tape came out. - No I did not. I stated that we never heard a need to change anything. I do not understand your community but to say that I don’t care is different than not understanding. So that would mean that your motivation now would strictly be the loss of money in your pocket because there is someone that truly cares about this industry that is making a product made just for us. - don’t kid yourself. THG is not made just for you. You are an afterthought. I admit you were an afterthought by us also but now that we took notice this will change. This is a great thing for your community. We thought you were satisfied with what we made and now we know there are other steps we could take and we will take them. I apologize for this but all our distributors and the new distributors we signed up recently have been very happy.
You are right that we love our animals. I cannot speak for all the other owners in this industry only myself. You talk about Safety standards. I would always trust Rich and Robyn any day over someone who only has their eye on the bottom line. Everyone in this hobby/industry know about the tragedy at Pro Exotics and I really doubt that Robyn would put his name behind something that was not safe. – If I had my eye on the bottom line I would be focused on military targets or primary heat with solar PV or high speed rail deicing etc. We failed you and will fix that. The first step was to spend money to hire someone from your industry. We will not make a lot of money with the additional expenses but will definitely not lose because people think the Korean knock off is ours. I am not saying rich and robyn would not want a safe product for you. That would be absurd. What I am saying is that they and you should look at the facts I am pointing out and question them. Do you think a Korean company will tell Rich and Robyn about the instability of their ink or the cheap current carrying buss bars and how they could be dangerous in your application? Come on man. If you think that I have a bridge I’ll sell you in Brooklyn!
I wish your new reptile expert the best of luck. - Thank you. He has already added three distributors and is pushing us to get new, needed products for your industry. With that said I am laid off at the moment and I don’t even know if I would want to be that expert. He or she has their work cut out for them in terms of you coming out and pretty much attacking some of the most respected people for supplies in our industry/hobby. – I wish you all the best in finding some work. I know it must be very difficult. I am not attacking anyone. If I came across as doing so I apologize. That is not in my nature but I will correct lies and state facts to set us apart. That’s all. Just know that every word you say makes a big impact on people some maybe in a good way but often in a bad way. – I hope not. And again I wish you all the best. I am going to send this to our new rep. If he keeps growing at the rate he has been he will need help. I am obviously not promising anything but hate to hear anyone is out of work. I respect your sticking up for someone you have been dealing with for years. I have people that do the same for me. It is a good trait to have. No hard feelings but if people read this and demand answers before purchasing an electric heating product then I am happy. If they get the right answers and feel comfortable then buy what you feel most comfortable with.
I know I have been long winded and if anyone else has anything to point out that I missed feel free to.
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