Quote Originally Posted by dr del View Post
Hi,



I get that you think pinstripes look like spiders - problem is they don't. At all. In combo morphs especially.

Those are in no way, shape or form alternatives to the spider morphs mentioned. If you think they are you need your eyes examined.
I said they look the most similar. Use brazilian rainbow boas as an example. They have 3 morphs. Hypo, Anery, and Ghost. You can't make more morphs of them than there already are. You have a choice of those 3. Now pretend that happened with all problematic ball pythons. You can still have hundreds of morphs. Just exclude the problematic ones.
In your list you might want to remove Tiger pin given the fact that the possible problem with deserts is far more serious. And keeping, incubating at lower temps has been hyped as the fix for every problem that has cropped up in ball python morphs - it has never fixed one of them yet so don't be so quick to announce that fixed. Nobody has even tried it long enough for a preliminary judgement.
I haven't heard about the desert problems, but I haven't been reading about them, because they are out of my budget right now anyways. I thought that was a tiger (dominant morph) pinstripe.

Let a lone announcing a cure.
I don't know what you mean about lower temperature incubation.
I'd also read up on bananas - there have been some major developments lately you may be unaware of.

Also the bug eye rumour in super lesser/ butters.
These two I haven't heard of, probably because I wasn't going to buy the morphs.
To be honest your specific genetic knowledge of this species is nowhere near the level you need to buy a high horse let alone pontificate from the top of it.
I research the ones I will buy or think of buying. I just recently heard about the spider problem (luckily) by seeing it in person and asking about it. NO ads on kingsnake warn about it, very few morph guides do, and the only other thing is that some ads say 'it doesn't have a wobble', and I didn't know what that meant.
I get that you are passionate in your opinion that they should not be bred. But that's just it - it's an opinion and people are allowed to disagree with you. And most of the people in this thread who have actually kept the animals do.
And, if they have kept the animals, I'm sure they are not going to want to agree with me about how bad breeding spiders is.
It's pointless rechewing and re-resenting your argument. It's not that we don't understand it - we just think you are wrong. Or at least have no danged right to try and tell anyone your opinion is more valid than theirs.
You are the first person to say that you understood it. But still, nobody said why they weren't able to avoid buying spiders with all the alternative morphs.
You are, effectively, telling everyone they have lower moral standards than you.
I think they do, at least with the spider morph.
Bear in mind some of them have 5-10 years of direct, eyes and hands on, experience to stack up against your precisely zero quanity of the same. Can you see how that might be contrued as an insult or at the very least extremely rude?
How do you know how long I've had reptiles? Do you think everyone joins a forums the day they get their first pet? That still doesn't change what someone can learn in a week. It doesn't take 5-10 years to learn about a morphs problems.
At the end oif the day, without actual direct understandable comunication nobody can be truly certain on the "happyness and stress" leves of any other organism.
You don't have to be. If it stressed an animal just a little each time it strikes and misses, or wobbles, it is different that a normally functioning animal.
Since that is only possible with human beings that presents a major problem. I certainly wouldn't go around asking people born with deformities or medical conditions if they would have been happier if they had never been born - and I don't recommend you try it either.
[B]So you think that snakes that were never born are going to be sad? You talk about asking a LIVING PERSON that. Not an animal that was never born. What if person A and person B had a kid, but never a second kid? Do you think their non-existent sibling would be 'sad' or 'missing out' because they were never born? Another difference is that you PLAN for spiders to have problems. People say 'if it's in the bad form of the problem, we'll just KILL IT. What's the difference? If you 'understand' like you wrote above, you agree to planning on killing animals that YOU bred, then killing them if they do not meet your standards of having limited problems. Now try to tell me that Pinstripes can't be an alternative, they don't look similar enough (for you), and that I need MY [B]MY eyes checked.
So, you have no direct knowledge or observational experience, and the other people, who have no direct knowledge but do have observational experience, disagree with you.
I have 'observed' them at reptile expos, and 'have knowledge' of their problems as much as anyone else.
Does this sound like a situation that will ever be comprehensively answered to you?
If you read everything I wrote, yes. It is bad, stupid, wrong, whatever you want to call it, to breed spiders.
Incidently - that dog in your avatar it looks like a Chihuahua?

I assume you don't think they should be bred or allowed to exist either?

You know, because of these problems?
You somehow seem to know my pets so well already.
Yes, I have 3 chihuahuas. All 3 were fixed ASAP. We never considered breeding them.
The first is a deerface, what people breeding chihuahuas don't want, because she doesn't barely have an 'apple head' at all.
She got in a fight one time and had her hip dislocated, and we couldn't tell other than her slightly limping and crying if you touched her leg. It was better by the end of the day and hasn't happened since then. The second has never had any of those problems. The most recent was given to us by the vet taking care of her, who had her for 2 weeks. He was hit by a car, then surrendered, because the owner couldn't pay for the medical bills ($1000). His entire front leg was amputated. He has none of the problems. Food is available constantly to them, so they have no chance of getting hypoglycemia.


dr del