Do all morphs get "head wobble"?

[rabernet]

You somehow seem to know my pets so well already.
Yes, I have 3 chihuahuas. All 3 were fixed ASAP. We never considered breeding them.
The first is a deerface, what people breeding chihuahuas don't want, because she doesn't barely have an 'apple head' at all.
She got in a fight one time and had her hip dislocated, and we couldn't tell other than her slightly limping and crying if you touched her leg. It was better by the end of the day and hasn't happened since then. The second has never had any of those problems. The most recent was given to us by the vet taking care of her, who had her for 2 weeks. He was hit by a car, then surrendered, because the owner couldn't pay for the medical bills ($1000). His entire front leg was amputated. He has none of the problems. Food is available constantly to them, so they have no chance of getting hypoglycemia.

I can't understand why you chose to keep chihuahuas as PETS when there are so many other dog breeds that don't have these problems. Why there are hundreds of other breeds out there to choose from that don't have these problems.

Hypocrite much?

[rabernet]

Of course I 'personally don't like' the spider trait. It's not the animals fault for having problems, it's the breeder that bred for that trait! I think it is 'incredibly rude and immature' to breed animals, knowing that you will KILL THEM if they have the problem in the extreme. Don't say people don't kill them. I read all the time, written by people I consider STUPID: If a spider shows the problem in the extreme state, a good breeder will not sell it. It will be 'culled'. What do YOU think that means? Here, let me show you an easier way to help you comprehend it. Exchange the first to letters for K and I:
C U lled
K I lled
and you have magically transformed the word! It even sounds similar! Why would a 'good breeder' breed for then kill their animals? Try to answer that.

And you believe that chihuahua breeders woudn't dare cull a problem puppy?

How dare they breed them - and how dare you keep them to support the market and encourage breeders to continue to fill demand?

[Reakt20]

"seeing them at a show" is not experience. Just recently reading about the wobble doesn't not qualify you as "experienced." Maybe if spider owners and breeders were stating everything you were stating, other people would take it as advice. However, you are talking out of your "you know what" and nobody is going to take advice from YOU because like mike said " you don't have a clue." The more you talk, the more apparent it is.

[Reakt20]

and quit using the term "happy" snakes dont have emotions like that. it makes you sound very uneducated.

[Reakt20]

I will say it in a easier way to think of.
1. Pretend you don't know anything about reptiles, or breeding snakes.

He wants you step in his shoes!

Edit: joking, sorry, not very nice but easy shot, so I took it.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

I can't understand why you chose to keep chihuahuas as PETS when there are so many other dog breeds that don't have these problems. Why there are hundreds of other breeds out there to choose from that don't have these problems.

Hypocrite much?

So you think there might be people out there telling others not to buy Chihuhuas because they have issues? You don't think people like that would call those who chose to get a chihuhua stupid and look down on them do you?

Oh wait who would do such a thing about any animal?

I guess it might all come back down again to make an educated purchase but of course some would rather bash than educate.

[dr del]

I said they look the most similar. Use brazilian rainbow boas as an example. They have 3 morphs. Hypo, Anery, and Ghost. You can't make more morphs of them than there already are. You have a choice of those 3. Now pretend that happened with all problematic ball pythons. You can still have hundreds of morphs. Just exclude the problematic ones.

I haven't heard about the desert problems, but I haven't been reading about them, because they are out of my budget right now anyways. I thought that was a tiger (dominant morph) pinstripe.

I don't know what you mean about lower temperature incubation.

These two I haven't heard of, probably because I wasn't going to buy the morphs.

I research the ones I will buy or think of buying. I just recently heard about the spider problem (luckily) by seeing it in person and asking about it. NO ads on kingsnake warn about it, very few morph guides do, and the only other thing is that some ads say 'it doesn't have a wobble', and I didn't know what that meant.

And, if they have kept the animals, I'm sure they are not going to want to agree with me about how bad breeding spiders is.

You are the first person to say that you understood it. But still, nobody said why they weren't able to avoid buying spiders with all the alternative morphs.

I think they do, at least with the spider morph.

How do you know how long I've had reptiles? Do you think everyone joins a forums the day they get their first pet? That still doesn't change what someone can learn in a week. It doesn't take 5-10 years to learn about a morphs problems.

You don't have to be. If it stressed an animal just a little each time it strikes and misses, or wobbles, it is different that a normally functioning animal.

So you think that snakes that were never born are going to be sad? You talk about asking a LIVING PERSON that. Not an animal that was never born. What if person A and person B had a kid, but never a second kid? Do you think their non-existent sibling would be 'sad' or 'missing out' because they were never born? Another difference is that you PLAN for spiders to have problems. People say 'if it's in the bad form of the problem, we'll just KILL IT. What's the difference? If you 'understand' like you wrote above, you agree to planning on killing animals that YOU bred, then killing them if they do not meet your standards of having limited problems. Now try to tell me that Pinstripes can't be an alternative, they don't look similar enough (for you), and that I need MY MY eyes checked.

I have 'observed' them at reptile expos, and 'have knowledge' of their problems as much as anyone else.

If you read everything I wrote, yes. It is bad, stupid, wrong, whatever you want to call it, to breed spiders.

You somehow seem to know my pets so well already.
Yes, I have 3 chihuahuas. All 3 were fixed ASAP. We never considered breeding them.
The first is a deerface, what people breeding chihuahuas don't want, because she doesn't barely have an 'apple head' at all.
She got in a fight one time and had her hip dislocated, and we couldn't tell other than her slightly limping and crying if you touched her leg. It was better by the end of the day and hasn't happened since then. The second has never had any of those problems. The most recent was given to us by the vet taking care of her, who had her for 2 weeks. He was hit by a car, then surrendered, because the owner couldn't pay for the medical bills ($1000). His entire front leg was amputated. He has none of the problems. Food is available constantly to them, so they have no chance of getting hypoglycemia.

As mentioned above woma looks the most similar but also acts nothing like a spider in combination. This is why people aren't using "alternatives" - because there aren't any. Nothing else makes anything that looks like a bumblebee or a lesser spinner.

The problem with the desert gene took years to be known - a 30 minute look at a show wouldn't have shown you it. Some of them do take years. The recent discoveries about the banana gene also took multiple generations.

The fact you watched a snake in a stressful situation ( the show ) entitles you to say nothing more than you once went to a snake show. I'm not kidding.

How they act under stressful conditions can be totally different from how they behave in their proper environment. Your "experience" is litterally none despite your inflated opinions on the matter.

Tell you what, since there are so many genetic weaknesses in dogs, why don't you go persuade them to stop breeding or keeping any breed with a problem - if you succeed in that come back to us. When they point out your hypocracy in keeping three dogs while telling everyone else they shouldn't be allowed to breed or keep them do us the courtesy of shutting up until you know what you are talking about.

Incidently the reason no ads on kingsnake mention it (or adverts for dogs etc) is because you are supposed to research before buying. You are currently sitting in a position of almost total ignorance insulting people. That's not nice.

Your comment on your moral superiority and stating that because they keep them they will never agree with you is flat out insulting. Especially since you are guilty of exactly the same thing you are berating them for from the top of your moral donkey.

You are supporting the breeding of animals with known genetic weaknesses by owning them. You can claim charity and kindness all you want - someone bred the animals you own which should have been a concept as abhorrent to you as people breeding spiders. One of them ironically has a mobility problem which could be causing it stress.

Does this mean you will be having it PTS?

You don't have to be. If it stressed an animal just a little each time it strikes and misses, or wobbles, it is different that a normally functioning animal.

And your right, I don't know how long you have been keeping reptiles, but I do know how long you have been keeping spiders and I have a fairly good grasp of how very little you actually know about ball python morphs too. And, above I gave two examples where it did, indeed, take that length of time to understand the problems and quirks associated with a morph.

The last point I can't believe I am going to have to explain.

You wish to deny all future spiders the chance to be hatched. in the parallel I gave I mentioned asking people who have lived with problems in the hope you would understand that they may be able to tell you about their quality of life. The idea of this was to explain to you that your understanding was such that you have no right to decide for any living creature whether they get to experience life in the first place.

The fact you managed to miss that is either sarcasm or idiocy - you pick one and get back to me.

As already mentioned everyone who breeds animals faces the possibility of producing an animal that needs to euthanased due to incubation abnormalities, genetic incompatibility ( happens with normals too and is unpredictable ) or injury.

dr del

[Genetics Breeder]

Of course all of them could have problems. Spiders are KNOWN for having problems. People admit that ALL of them do. I said already that my dogs were from a humane society. I don't care if people kept spiders as pets. It's when they breed them that they know there is a chance of it being messed up. I never knew where my dogs were born. If I did I DEFINITELY wouldn't say that they should breed more of them.
The humane society DOESN'T BREED DOGS.

[Genetics Breeder]

and quit using the term "happy" snakes dont have emotions like that. it makes you sound very uneducated.

So they don't have emotions? How do you know? What lab did you test emotional responses and keep track of records in? I know my leopard geckos could be 'happy' or the reptile equivalent by how they act. I don't have a scientific answer, but neither do you. People know that they probably don't get lonely, that doesn't mean they don't have emotions. Emotions are critical to making decisions and survival.

[Genetics Breeder]

So you think there might be people out there telling others not to buy Chihuhuas because they have issues? You don't think people like that would call those who chose to get a chihuhua stupid and look down on them do you?

Oh wait who would do such a thing about any animal?

I guess it might all come back down again to make an educated purchase but of course some would rather bash than educate.

I already said, I don't care if people buy problematic animals. I DO if they BREED them. My dogs are ALL FIXED. I NEVER considered breeding them. I said it was stupid for people to buy and breed spiders, meaning buying a spider only to plan on breeding it, before they even bought one.