Touchy subject that i need some light shined on....

[Mike Cavanaugh]

What does my position here have to do with my opinion and participation in this thread? Have I threatened you in any way, or was that just your feeble attempt to discredit my participation in this thread?

I made no accusations, I said "I can't help but wonder".

Carry on, and good luck with your collection.

Sorry but I took offense to your "I can't help but wonder" statement that suggests I am only arguing my position to make myself feel better, even though I know I am wrong.

Your position of authority on these forms has nothing to do with it... other then I expected better from you.

[Adam_Wysocki]

While I understand the point you are making, It is important to note that the subject we are talking has been observed in nature.


If there were Utube videos of the guys in Ghana catching BP's and it is discovered that there was shrimp or fish in their belly, it would certainly be worthy of a study would it not?

I'm sorry to break it to you buddy, but watching a YouTube video doesn't equate to "observed in nature".

Did you read Justins post or are you ignoring it because it doesn't support your position? Have you spoken with anyone that has been to West Africa collecting? I can put you in touch with people that have if you'd like.

For the vast majority of their lives, ball pythons live alone ... and that is a fact.

-adam

[monk90222]

Why do you refuse to accept that popular opinion is not fact?

With my collection, I choose to spend the money, provide my snakes with the best possible care, based on years of experience of many ball python experts. I would never "experiment" to save myself money or expand my collection if I did not have the space to do so. My snakes are way too important to me, to sacrifice their possible well being , just to get more.
1 tub, 1 snake.

You can try to justify your shortcuts all day...I'd rather take the popular opinion.

[Mike Cavanaugh]

I'm sorry to break it to you buddy, but watching a YouTube video doesn't equate to "observed in nature".

Did you read Justins post or are you ignoring it because it doesn't support your position? Have you spoken with anyone that has been to West Africa collecting? I can put you in touch with people that have if you'd like.
-adam

Yes I did read Justins post and no I am not ignoring it. I was surprised by it though... I would have figured that if nothing else he would have seen some instances where males and females were found together because that is after all how those cute little babies we all love happen.

I would love to here more from Justin on this. Justin - What months were you there? You never saw a single instance of multiple BP's in one hole? What is your opinion on the Utube video filmed in Ghana? Do you think it was a setup or somehting?

[Adam_Wysocki]

Yes I did read Justins post and no I am not ignoring it. I was surprised by it though... I would have figured that if nothing else he would have seen some instances where males and females were found together because that is after all how those cute little babies we all love happen.

I would love to here more from Justin on this. Justin - What months were you there? You never saw a single instance of multiple BP's in one hole? What is your opinion on the Utube video filmed in Ghana? Do you think it was a setup or somehting?

Mike,

Just an FYI ... breeding is a seasonal thing for ball pythons ... during the breeding season males and females are together for a short period of the year to make all those "cute little babies" and then when breeding season ends they go their separate ways and want nothing to do with each other.

Hope this helps.

-adam

[Emilio]

Reading this whole thread today I start to think to myself that not only is it probably not the best situation for the animals but not easy on you either Mike. I'd think it would be a major pain to separate those females when its time to feed. Have you ever had any regurgitations. Cause I had one during breeding season my mistake was putting a male in a day after the female took a meal. I believe in one tub one ball its easier on me and the animals.

[rabernet]

Your position of authority on these forms has nothing to do with it... other then I expected better from you.

And I expected better of you and thought more highly of you than to stoop so low as to throw an undercut like:

I would appreciate it if you would not judge me in your position of power on these forums, but instead contribute to the conversation at hand.

as I was contributing to the conversation at hand. You and I know each other, have met in person and you know me better than that, or so I thought.

And if my "position of authority" had nothing to do with it, why did you go there? I was not aware that my "position of authority" negates my ability to participate in a thread and share my opinion.

Just because I don't happen to agree with you, doesn't mean I'm using my "position of authority". Sorry you are unable to make the distinction.

[frankykeno]

Mike, this is a very interesting thread, I am amazed your flame wording has kept people from jumping down your throat.

Can you please post some links of the movies you refer to.

Perhaps the TOS and the expectations of this forum for it's membership is what keeps the flaming down. We do not allow jumping down anyone's throat here...never have...never will.

I would appreciate it if you would not judge me in your position of power on these forums, but instead contribute to the conversation at hand.

Mike, Robin's dealt with you very fairly as far as I have seen in this thread (and yes I have read each and every word posted). Just because she doesn't agree with your point of view is no reason to accuse her or any staff member here of using our "position of power" unjustly. Every single one of us staffers is a member with an opinion, just like you are. Every single one of us has our own point of view, our own experiences and our own voice. Your comments to Robin were uncalled for, rude and unfair in my opinion.

As far as the topic of this thread, personally I could care less how you choose to keep your snakes. For me, I've made decisions on the size of my collection and whether or not to breed them partially based on issues of space. I'd rather house individually (other than during breeding season) and with space at a premium here, that does limit the numbers of my collection. For me, that's just the way it is. I don't compare what happens in the wild to what happens in my house in Toledo. Apples to oranges stuff really to my mind.

[jkobylka]

I would love to here more from Justin on this. Justin - What months were you there? You never saw a single instance of multiple BP's in one hole? What is your opinion on the Utube video filmed in Ghana? Do you think it was a setup or somehting?

I was there from November 2000 to Aug 2001. Right through the entirety of the breeding cycle. This experience has been hugely helpful to me because I know EXACTLY what their unique weather cycles feel like!

Youtube video: That shows me that there was more than one bp in THAT hole at THAT time, the eggs give a good idea of what part of the season it was filmed.

No I never saw more than one bp in a hole. That doesn't mean there never is. I wasn't digging for them during laying season either... I was there for other reasons...

My opinion of the bps sharing space in the wild:

1. In my experience they seem to be solitary nearly all of the time in the wild.
2. If they were to share space during the season where they are feeding heavily, they are reducing their odds of getting a meal by 50% or greater depending how many bps there will be going after the rodent that wandered down the hole.
3. Obviously males and females are getting together during breeding season.
4. Toward the end of the breeding season most will be off feed, reducing the competition for food.
5. Once a female is past ovulation they are more likely to hunker down in the first hole they find, regardless of occupants (there is no reason to forage for copulation or feeding) Also moving around too much with the heavy load of eggs would make them more vulnerable to predators
6. There may be far fewer spots that are adventagious for the incubation of eggs, temp and moisture wise. Also the hole has to be big enough to squeeze into with the additional girth. This may be why multiple females are seen sharing space during laying season. simply not enough good spots for them all to have one!

Justin

[Montessa Python]

While not a breeder...
If you feel you must for your stated reasons keep your females together...
I would if you can...once you have bred them, put the females in seperate tubs.
it might be cleaner in the long run, it is easier to tell which male/female is on which eggs for genetics... (if you get one that is sterile or low fertility rates, low egg count, you know which snake it is).
And well, here is one to think about, I know you must have seen pics of one snake eating another, and you are sure it won't happen to you... but.. what if you have the male in with the two females, and one eats the other? Or feels threatened and attacks?
Also.. what if one is having problems passing urates or is egg bound, but you can't tell cause you have multiple snakes in each tub...
Just a thought, your decision, and perhaps getting tubs and UTH's and placing them on top of the racks would be a good solution until you move...
Hope it is all good in the long run, and that breeding is great and successful for the snakes.

Carol