Please Please Please Help Me

I have 2 bp's. one female, one male, both from the same breeder but different hatchlings, so they are not siblings. The female has been great since day 1. She eats, sheds, soaks, does it all. The male however is starting to wear on my nerves. He has never eaten on his own since he has been with me (altho the breeder said both were eating hoppers at time of purchase) I purchased them in June 08. He did not eat, did not shed but maintained his weight. Then in October he started losing weight, and getting folds like he has too much skin for his body. A local pet store owner/breeder taught me how to force feed him and said a few times should get him eating on his own. It is now February and I still have to force feed him. Since June he has shed only once at the end of november and not completely, he still has not shed his head. I was getting excited because I thought we were finally getting on the right track, but he is losing weight again and now has some kind of rash/burn/scale rot? From the pictures I've seen of scale rot, i really don't think it is that, but I have no idea. Unfortunately I have been out of work for 4 months and can not afford the vet by me, because it is $70 just to walk in the door, not counting treatment, medicine or any other expenses and I just don't have that money at the moment. I have some pictures but I don't know how to include them in the post. Sorry for the long post. but please any ideas, advice, please help.

Quick question - are they housed individually, or together?

Tell us about your husbandry.

What are they kept in?
are they housed together?
What are their temperatures?
Do they have a thermal gradient?
How many Hides do they have?
Whats the humidity in their environment usually at?


Next.

What have you tried feeding?
Have you tried other methods/prey items than the previous?
have you had a fecal exam done to rule out parasites?

Are there any members near you? Where are you located? What are your temps,humidity,and ect.

Ok to answer all questions.

They are both housed together in a 40 gal Tank. They have a black small hidebox as well a big cave. They have a tree to climb and a large waterdish. Right now they have a paper towel lining, because after bringing him to the pet store to get force fed I had a problem with mites. They have a flouresant light, suramic heat lamp, and one of those heat pads on the side (which is only plugged in if it gets very cold) Their tank stays at about 78-82 degrees with the seramic lamp. I change their water ever 2 days and clean their tank once a week to try to keep the mites away. The humidity stays between 25-45 depending on the heat. I unplug the heat when the female sheds to help her have a higher humidity. I have tried pinkies, hoppers and put the male is a paper bag to try to get him to eat but he shows absolutely no interest. I do seperate them to feed, they both have their own 10 gal feeding tank. No to the fecal exam, but after force feeding he does poop and I have not seen anything wrong with it.

I live in the Cherry Hill area of New Jersey.


i just put pics up on myspace:

this is how big they were when I first purchased them:
[img] http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/inde...ageID=53910788 [/img]

this is their size now:
[img] http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/inde...ageID=53910798 [/img]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stitch18jr

Ok to answer all questions.

They are both housed together in a 40 gal Tank. They have a black small hidebox as well a big cave. They have a tree to climb and a large waterdish. Right now they have a paper towel lining, because after bringing him to the pet store to get force fed I had a problem with mites. They have a flouresant light, suramic heat lamp, and one of those heat pads on the side (which is only plugged in if it gets very cold) Their tank stays at about 78-82 degrees with the seramic lamp. I change their water ever 2 days and clean their tank once a week to try to keep the mites away. The humidity stays between 25-45 depending on the heat. I unplug the heat when the female sheds to help her have a higher humidity. I have tried pinkies, hoppers and put the male is a paper bag to try to get him to eat but he shows absolutely no interest. I do seperate them to feed, they both have their own 10 gal feeding tank. No to the fecal exam, but after force feeding he does poop and I have not seen anything wrong with it.


I live in the Cherry Hill area of New Jersey.


i just put pics up on myspace:

this is how big they were when I first purchased them:
[img] http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/inde...ageID=53910788 [/img]

this is their size now:
[img] http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/inde...ageID=53910798 [/img]

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house them separately and see if the male starts to eat, some times they are so stressed from cohabitation that one or both will stop eating. no eating situations are caused by bad temps/humidity or stress. if your temps are good i would say the male is stressed.

surface temperatures should be 90-94*F on the hot side and no lower then 80*F on the cold side. ambiant air temp should be around 80 as well. how are you measuring your temps and the heat pad should stay plugged in and regulated to the corresponding temps if its the hot or cold side. it sounds like temperature could be a factor as well. living in jersey it gets cold in the winter does it not. im further north then you and i would surly have a stubborn feeding BP if i unplugged my UTH.

more pics:

this is the males tail, where the rash is, it doesnt look like filled scales, it looks like they are coming off:

[img] http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/inde...ageID=53910804 [/img]

[img] http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/inde...ageID=53910776 [/img]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stitch18jr

more pics:

this is the males tail, where the rash is, it doesnt look like filled scales, it looks like they are coming off:

[img] http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/inde...ageID=53910804 [/img]

[img] http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/inde...ageID=53910776 [/img]

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try posting pictures on tinypic.com, as i dont have my space. but the tail rash could be from a retained tail tip shed.

id have to see to say for sure though bu i have seen it 100 times in the large corporate pet stores. every time i visit them i tend to look at there snakes and complain about the poor up keeping they practice. and how over priced they are for such poorly maintained animals.

ok hope this will work with pictures:


i did not purchase the snakes from a pet shop, but i did from a breeder at a reptile show:

this is the male's tail:: in the 2nd pic please notice the weird spot of discoloration, looks like scales were almost peeled off

http://i43.tinypic.com/33o1amu.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/25ox7w5.jpg

this is the size when purchased:
http://i44.tinypic.com/xav0rc.jpg

and their size comparison now::
http://i41.tinypic.com/28verg0.jpg

the male is stressed, for sure. i would be with a tail like that. that kind of looks liek a burn. is that some form of antiseptic cream on it or is that skin? looks liek its rather irritated could be part of a retained shed as well. i would boost humidity to 70-80% and treat it with some polyspourn. if it does not start to look better in 3-5 days i would get to a vet asap. 3 common options are, a burn, scale rot or retained shed that is causing irritation.

does it look like some shed has stayed behind? if thats not some form of cream treatment you have applied id say most deafinitly yes. its usually not an issue unless the retained shed is all the way around and not just on the back. and tails can be problematic for retaining them and forming irritations due to the fact.

There is still shed on his head that he hasnt gotten off, but i didnt noticed any on his tail. How would he get burned if it is a burn?

also, how can i raise the humidity that high??

a burn could be from a UTH thats to hot and he has been sitting on it. or by an exposed bulbe from a heat lamp.

i have a waterfall in my enclosure that keep the humidity up. but i also use a humid-hide that i made with some spagnum moss mosened inside of a ceramic hide i purchased. i add a little water here and then and ofcourse clean it every 2 weeks some times more if i notice its smelly. and i place it on the hot side over the UTH. this creates a small high humidity enviroment for your BP to hide in and it will help with bad sheds, general skin/scale health and healing. just be sure that its not a pool of water in there or you may get scale rot. the moss is the best way to go.

Separate them, she's dominating him and he's refusing to eat as a result. Put him in a six quart tub on paper towels with a small hide. Let him settle in for a week and offer a live hopper.

He NEEDS to be seen by a vet - his skin has indeed torn away from his body in those pictures. I know you said money is tight, but if you had a dog who had skin peeling away - would you not take it to the vet? Just because the snake can't vocally tell you it's a painful injury doesn't mean he deserves any less treatment.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Separate them, she's dominating him and he's refusing to eat as a result. Put him in a six quart tub on paper towels with a small hide. Let him settle in for a week and offer a live hopper.

He NEEDS to be seen by a vet - his skin has indeed torn away from his body in those pictures. I know you said money is tight, but if you had a dog who had skin peeling away - would you not take it to the vet? Just because the snake can't vocally tell you it's a painful injury doesn't mean he deserves any less treatment.

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i agree a vet visit is in order, i was waiting for some one more knowledgeable to come in and confirm or deny some of my advice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stitch18jr

also, how can i raise the humidity that high??

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Okay, you have a lot of husbandry issues right now and you need to address all of them.

The best thing you can do right now is get them separated. I guarantee if you seperate them, get your temps right, and give him a little while to settle in, he will eat for you.

Next, you need to get your temperatures figured out. The UTH needs to be on 24/7 and MUST be regulated with either a thermostat or dimmer. Since you will probably need a quick fix, I recommend getting a dimmer.
Here is one that works well.
Now that you have your heat source regulated, you need to measure the temps to make sure they are correct. For this you need a thermometer with a PROBE. Not the stick on dial kind, the digital thermometers with a probe. If you have a walmart around you, I suggest looking for the accurite thermometer and hydrometer combination. Just ask where the indoor/outdoor thermometers are. Make sure you get the one with a probe!

When you get this, you will stick the probe right on the UTH above the glass INSIDE the tank. This will make sure your snake won't get burned no matter how close it is to the glass. You can leave the whole Accurite unit inside the tank and it will measure the humidity and the ambient temp. Your hot spot above the UTH should be 90 and your ambient should be between 80-85.

Now for raising humidity. I find the best way to get humidity up is to switch to tubs instead of tanks, but I think you will probably want to stick to tanks. Cover 2/3 of the screen top (leave a space for lamps) with aluminum foil and then cover it with duct tape. This will help retain more moisture in the air. You can also get some moss that you dampen and stick in the cage (I put mine in small water dishes so it doesn't make a mess). Your humidity should be around 50%, 70% during a shed cycle.


Now to fix the incomplete shed. Get a pillow case and get it damp with luke warm water. Make sure it is not hot to the touch. Put your ball python in it for 30 minutes and then let him crawl through the pillow case and try and rub (lightly) some of the shed off. Do this once every 2 days until it all comes off.

As for the burns, you can treat them with neosporin or polysporin (the kind without the painkiller) temporarily but you really should see a vet.

Please read over what I said, I know it is a lot to take in and a lot of fix.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

Okay, you have a lot of husbandry issues right now and you need to address all of them.

The best thing you can do right now is get them separated. I guarantee if you seperate them, get your temps right, and give him a little while to settle in, he will eat for you.

Next, you need to get your temperatures figured out. The UTH needs to be on 24/7 and MUST be regulated with either a thermostat or dimmer. Since you will probably need a quick fix, I recommend getting a dimmer.
Here is one that works well.
Now that you have your heat source regulated, you need to measure the temps to make sure they are correct. For this you need a thermometer with a PROBE. Not the stick on dial kind, the digital thermometers with a probe. If you have a walmart around you, I suggest looking for the accurite thermometer and hydrometer combination. Just ask where the indoor/outdoor thermometers are. Make sure you get the one with a probe!

When you get this, you will stick the probe right on the UTH above the glass INSIDE the tank. This will make sure your snake won't get burned no matter how close it is to the glass. You can leave the whole Accurite unit inside the tank and it will measure the humidity and the ambient temp. Your hot spot above the UTH should be 90 and your ambient should be between 80-85.

Now for raising humidity. I find the best way to get humidity up is to switch to tubs instead of tanks, but I think you will probably want to stick to tanks. Cover 2/3 of the screen top (leave a space for lamps) with aluminum foil and then cover it with duct tape. This will help retain more moisture in the air. You can also get some moss that you dampen and stick in the cage (I put mine in small water dishes so it doesn't make a mess). Your humidity should be around 50%, 70% during a shed cycle.


Now to fix the incomplete shed. Get a pillow case and get it damp with luke warm water. Make sure it is not hot to the touch. Put your ball python in it for 30 minutes and then let him crawl through the pillow case and try and rub (lightly) some of the shed off. Do this once every 2 days until it all comes off.

As for the burns, you can treat them with neosporin or polysporin (the kind without the painkiller) temporarily but you really should see a vet.

Please read over what I said, I know it is a lot to take in and a lot of fix.

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couldn't agree more. once you get the correct husbandry everything els will be easy. keep things sanitary and dont be lazy when it comes to cleaning. they need it or they will get sick, and have skin issues.

I am no where near lazy when it comes to cleaning their tank.

They are separated when they are fed, have been since the begining, but he has never eaten for me. He has not even shown interest. He doesnt stick his tongue out to smell it, or tense up or anything, he act as though nothing is there.

Is there another solution besides separating, because again, this is a cost i can not endure right now. They live in a 40 gal tank. I have added the mossy area for humidity and have been applying neosporin to the area.

and no, even if i had a dog, i could not bring him to the vet at the moment with the $3 i have in my bank account at the moment.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stitch18jr

I am no where near lazy when it comes to cleaning their tank.

They are separated when they are fed, have been since the begining, but he has never eaten for me. He has not even shown interest. He doesnt stick his tongue out to smell it, or tense up or anything, he act as though nothing is there.

Is there another solution besides separating, because again, this is a cost i can not endure right now. They live in a 40 gal tank. I have added the mossy area for humidity and have been applying neosporin to the area.

and no, even if i had a dog, i could not bring him to the vet at the moment with the $3 i have in my bank account at the moment.

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This is a textbook domination issue, if you don't get them separated, he will not eat. Can you not borrow money from friends or family?

i you absolutely need to get by, a rubber made container works well. does not have to be big. add a regulated heat source and you have an instant snake cage. air holes are needed. and a hide, water and some form of substrate obviously.

if he is suffering from some form of infection this will affect apetite as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

This is a textbook domination issue, if you don't get them separated, he will not eat. Can you not borrow money from friends or family?

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unfortunately I tore a tendon in my knee and have been out of work since October. I've already borrowed the money I could to help pay bills thro the last couple of months, I don't go back to work until March 8th. Don't judge me, I love my snake and don't want him to suffer which is why I'm trying to figure out what I can do by myself. If i could bring him to the vet I would but I LITERALLY can not afford it, I've had to get car payments and other deferred because I can not pay them, i'm not just trying to be cheap with my pet, I have no money. and the vet does not bill, they need it up front and it is $70 to walk in the door, that includes a check up only, no treatment, medicine or anything else.

A 40 gallons tank is in no way appropriated for 1 or even 2 BP that size.

You need to separate them and put them in a 15 quarts tub each, the female IS dominating the male, which explain why the male is not eating. A dominated stressed BP will refuse to eat so will an un-healthy BP.

The health problem is something that requires veterinary care, it is very possible that at this stage your BP will require anti-biotic.

I understand you might have financial problems however you can always ask for a payment plan.

Animal ownership is not cheap and if you cannot separate them, care for them appropriately, or afford vet care than you need to re-home both animals.

When animals become a financial burden and are suffering because of it, than it is up to YOU to do the right for both the animals and yourself and this includes re-homing the animals you cannot care for adequately.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stitch18jr

I am no where near lazy when it comes to cleaning their tank.

They are separated when they are fed, have been since the begining, but he has never eaten for me. He has not even shown interest. He doesnt stick his tongue out to smell it, or tense up or anything, he act as though nothing is there.

Is there another solution besides separating, because again, this is a cost i can not endure right now. They live in a 40 gal tank. I have added the mossy area for humidity and have been applying neosporin to the area.

and no, even if i had a dog, i could not bring him to the vet at the moment with the $3 i have in my bank account at the moment.

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Perhaps surrendering him to a rescue where he CAN get the veterinary care that he needs might be the best solution right now.

Separating them during feeding does not solve the domination problem. A dominated animal (they're not cuddling, btw), is more prone to fasting, suppressed immune system, and illnesses.

Just look at the pictures you've posted - he NEEDS medical attention. You've asked for suggestions, separating them is what any of us will tell you.

You can pick up a six quart tub for $1, and get a UTH and thermostat for him and separate him from the female.

Otherwise, you're going to quite literally - love him to death.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stitch18jr

unfortunately I tore a tendon in my knee and have been out of work since October. I've already borrowed the money I could to help pay bills thro the last couple of months, I don't go back to work until March 8th. Don't judge me, I love my snake and don't want him to suffer which is why I'm trying to figure out what I can do by myself. If i could bring him to the vet I would but I LITERALLY can not afford it, I've had to get car payments and other deferred because I can not pay them, i'm not just trying to be cheap with my pet, I have no money. and the vet does not bill, they need it up front and it is $70 to walk in the door, that includes a check up only, no treatment, medicine or anything else.

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No one is judging you, we are just trying to suggest options for you so that you can do the best for your pet.

If you cannot provide for your pet, I would find someone who can foster them until you are able to.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deborah

When animals become a financial burden and are suffering because of it, than it is up to YOU to do the right for both the animals and yourself and this includes re-homing the animals you cannot care for adequately.

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Bingo!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stitch18jr

unfortunately I tore a tendon in my knee and have been out of work since October. I've already borrowed the money I could to help pay bills thro the last couple of months, I don't go back to work until March 8th. Don't judge me, I love my snake and don't want him to suffer which is why I'm trying to figure out what I can do by myself. If i could bring him to the vet I would but I LITERALLY can not afford it, I've had to get car payments and other deferred because I can not pay them, i'm not just trying to be cheap with my pet, I have no money. and the vet does not bill, they need it up front and it is $70 to walk in the door, that includes a check up only, no treatment, medicine or anything else.

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i understand you're in a hard situation but the fact is unfortunately that he will die if you do not initiate the suggestions we have given immediately. i am not judging you in any way. however there is no other solution besides separating them and a vet visit. the risk of death in his current situation is rather high, he is highly stressed, not eating. has physical issues with his well being and is probably advancing in stages of infection. He would be considered to be in very poor health right now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Perhaps surrendering him to a rescue where he CAN get the veterinary care that he needs might be the best solution right now.

Separating them during feeding does not solve the domination problem. A dominated animal (they're not cuddling, btw), is more prone to fasting, suppressed immune system, and illnesses.

Just look at the pictures you've posted - he NEEDS medical attention. You've asked for suggestions, separating them is what any of us will tell you.

You can pick up a six quart tub for $1, and get a UTH and thermostat for him and separate him from the female.

Otherwise, you're going to quite literally - love him to death.

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They do cuddle. they are always wrap around each other when they are sleeping/relaxing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stitch18jr

They do cuddle. they are always wrap around each other when they are sleeping/relaxing.

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thats actually the female showing her dominance over the male. snakes generally are anti social and will not cuddle at all.

No, they are not cuddling. That is the female dominating over the male and the reason why he won't eat.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stitch18jr

They do cuddle. they are always wrap around each other when they are sleeping/relaxing.

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This is not cuddling this is DOMINANCE, snakes do not cuddle.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stitch18jr

They do cuddle. they are always wrap around each other when they are sleeping/relaxing.

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That's why I said that - they aren't cuddling. She's dominating him, and he's paying for it horribly.

Not to be harsh, but you want to know how to help your ill snake, and everyone is trying to advise you.
Seperate the snakes immediately. Use sterilite tubs with lids.. there's stickys here on how to make a great healthy set up for a small amount of money. If you cannot afford to set up the sick snake properly, then rehome him BEFORE HE DIES.
If you continue to keep him in that huge tank with the female, he will die, and you will be at fault for it. What do you feed them in? Use that to house him, and leave her in the oversized tank.
To reiterate...
1. Seperate the male into a different enclosure.
2. Keep him in a clean enclosure, with humidity.
3. Treat the burn(wound) with polysporin(without pain relief - that is toxic).
4. Leave him along other than the necasary handling for treatment, and provide two good hides for him to relax in ALONE.

I hope you listen to some of the advice, and I hope he will get better.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stitch18jr

They do cuddle. they are always wrap around each other when they are sleeping/relaxing.

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They are not cuddling. Several people have given you exactly what you need to do. If you can not provide these things you need to allow some one else to.

Please we are not trying to judge you. We are not trying to get down on you. The people on this website combined know pretty much every situation and how to handle injuries and poor husbandry. There are two of the best people on this site giving you advice, please listen to them or your pet snake will die. It is not a question of if it is when.

We are always happy to have new members and are always willing to help, but if you are just going to argue or ignore the advice then you are wasting many peoples time, mainly your snakes.

I am sorry if I was rude but it seemed like you are not willing to listen,

Mike

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stitch18jr

They do cuddle. they are always wrap around each other when they are sleeping/relaxing.

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That is the quote of the year!
Hope everything works out for ya!:gj:

I was just at the store looking at tubs to build my rack. 6 qt tub will cost u $1, 16 was maybe $3. That plus maybe $10 for a very small UTH. Put down paper towel + a small bowl of water u have at the house, and grab something small to make a hide.. u don't have to buy it all.