New THG Heat Tape Test Results are in

Thanks for all the support!

Ed- I am done going round and round with you. I know it is easy enough to find the manufacturer if you know where and how to look. So what? Our element carries the same UL listing as you do. In addition our element also carries the CUL which I do not believe you do. Our manufacturer also carries ISO4001 and 9001 which you would also already know? Again, please lay off the propaganda.

I was going on a statement from one of your employees as to where your element or some other component you were waiting on to fill my order comes from and I also already said repeatedly that if that is wrong then I am fine with it. I really do not care where it is physically made. I concede that you make it in the USA and have already based on your word. Period. You are the guy all hung up on where it is made.

I actually stood behind your product when I was selling it, you did not. You offered no warranty and the warranty now is simply a reaction to the bind we have put you in. THG will stand behind this product and I sincerely hope you do distance yourself from our product. From this standpoint it does not matter who is actually making it, we are making it and we are standing behind it. This is a very, very common thing in the manufacturing world.

I have spent easily thousands of hours and expect I will spend thousands more. Difference is I am an adult. I do not bad mouth your product and try to hi jack threads on others products. Go find your own thread to rant in. When I am asked why I switched my answer is pretty standard, I have more of a problem with your company than your product. Been over this and you are providing a great example of why. Your product is more than adequate to do this job and hope it continues to do so.

So, collectively at THG we have decided to stop messing with you. This is going around and around again and becoming tedious. All of this ground has been covered and just because you do not like an answer does not mean that it has not been answered.

On the humidity and temps effecting oxidation- Ever been to Florida? Without direct exposure to the elements you are just fine.

We have a terrific product with consistent and even heating performance. We have seen that in our in-house testing, and gotten that feedback from independent users and customers.



We are going to focus on selling the THG heat tape and servicing our customers. Ed- we are not going to respond to your round and round arguments anymore, that is not productive. We believe in our product and we stand behind it.



I am happy to answer questions about the THG products or applications. The THG line of heat tape for sale at next week's NARBC Tinley Park show, to those out there that want to actually see this in person come and check it out, you won't be disappointed!

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Originally Posted by Ed gilmartin

John

My point exactly. You trusted him when he sold our heat tape but he let you know that it was us that manufactured it. He did bot make up a name like THG and hide who manufactures flexwatt. He won't tell you who manufactures the THG film. Why? Does not make sense. What is there to hide? Obviously there is something to hide or he would say who manufactures it and we would be done. Do you like that rich lied and said our product was made in Asia when he has known for years that it is manufactured in the US? I have been honest and stated facts. I am not sure why you dont like that. I think being honest and stating facts about a product that can be hazardous is not a bad way to handle myself. I apologize if you do not like how I handled myself but I am just pointing out facts. I hope you understand this and why I have to point this stuff out. I don't want anyone thinking THG is our product and that we cut corners to get a bigger profit margin. again if I have been a little agressive I apologize but it was rich's lie that got me started.

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I'll break this down for you.

1) I do not have to defend Rich, period. He knows more than I ever will about any of this. I do not have any stake in this and only put my two cents in because your attitude irked me. I don't even like Rich (just kidding).

2) I somehow got the idea that Flexwatt was manufactured in Canada. Not sure how I came up with that. I had my concerns about your product but Rich explained how I could use it and keep my snakes relatively safe so I bought some. Rich never told me that Flexwatt was made in Asia but I would have felt better about it over being made in Canada. No offense Canadians.

3) Rich never refused to tell me where his tape is made. He refused to tell YOU, his competition. Again, smart guy.

4) I agree that Rich should state the facts about a product. For years Rich told his customers that Flexwatt could be hazardous and could cause damage to our equipment and death to our reptiles. He explained that Flexwatt could even harm us if not used properly. But he also told us how to avoid these horrible situations and put our safety and the safety of our pets first.

5) Please don't be concerned that anyone will mistake THG for Flexwatt. You can see the difference when you look at it and when you feel it.

Hopefully I made my points clearly. No need to respond.

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Originally Posted by Reptilebasics

Thanks for all the support!

Ed- I am done going round and round with you. I know it is easy enough to find the manufacturer if you know where and how to look. So what? Our element carries the same UL listing as you do. In addition our element also carries the CUL which I do not believe you do. Our manufacturer also carries ISO4001 and 9001 which you would also already know? Again, please lay off the propaganda.

I was going on a statement from one of your employees as to where your element or some other component you were waiting on to fill my order comes from and I also already said repeatedly that if that is wrong then I am fine with it. I really do not care where it is physically made. I concede that you make it in the USA and have already based on your word. Period. You are the guy all hung up on where it is made.

I actually stood behind your product when I was selling it, you did not. You offered no warranty and the warranty now is simply a reaction to the bind we have put you in. THG will stand behind this product and I sincerely hope you do distance yourself from our product. From this standpoint it does not matter who is actually making it, we are making it and we are standing behind it. This is a very, very common thing in the manufacturing world.

I have spent easily thousands of hours and expect I will spend thousands more. Difference is I am an adult. I do not bad mouth your product and try to hi jack threads on others products. Go find your own thread to rant in. When I am asked why I switched my answer is pretty standard, I have more of a problem with your company than your product. Been over this and you are providing a great example of why. Your product is more than adequate to do this job and hope it continues to do so.

So, collectively at THG we have decided to stop messing with you. This is going around and around again and becoming tedious. All of this ground has been covered and just because you do not like an answer does not mean that it has not been answered.

On the humidity and temps effecting oxidation- Ever been to Florida? Without direct exposure to the elements you are just fine.

We have a terrific product with consistent and even heating performance. We have seen that in our in-house testing, and gotten that feedback from independent users and customers.



We are going to focus on selling the THG heat tape and servicing our customers. Ed- we are not going to respond to your round and round arguments anymore, that is not productive. We believe in our product and we stand behind it.



I am happy to answer questions about the THG products or applications. The THG line of heat tape for sale at next week's NARBC Tinley Park show, to those out there that want to actually see this in person come and check it out, you won't be disappointed!

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Our element carries the same UL listing as you do - This is untrue. We have the only UL listed thin film radiant heat. Your UR recognition means it applies to components that meet applicable standards but they may need to be incorporated in specific ways to make it safe. When you have a UL listed product like we do it means that you have follow up inspections to make sure you continue to make it safe and not only made safe to pass satisfy initial inspection.

Our manufacturer also carries ISO4001 and 9001 which you would also already know? – I don’t think so!
I was going on a statement from one of your employees as to where your element or some other component you were waiting on to fill my order comes from – Again not true!

We are making it and we are standing behind it. – Another untrue statement. And this product was also not made for the reptile industry. You and I both know that. It is a by product for floor heat etc.

I do not bad mouth your product and try to hi jack threads on others products. – This is the sole reason I even got on these forums. To correct your lies about our product.

So, collectively at THG we have decided to stop messing with you. This is going around and around again and becoming tedious. All of this ground has been covered and just because you do not like an answer does not mean that it has not been answered. – I haven’t seen one answer that is actually based on facts

On the humidity and temps effecting oxidation- Ever been to Florida? Without direct exposure to the elements you are just fine. – What has Florida got to do with oxidization? Oxidization occurs in dry air and is very slightly increased in damp conditions. But humidity does not cause oxidization.

I too will stop with this round and round. You bad mouthed our product saying we were made in Asia, we ignored you, we use the same flawed copper bus bars, the THG is more stable etc. That is why I looked at who manufactures THG film and thought you were crazy to start this. Especially that the product is one of the most unstable products available. Yes you will get by for a short time but that won’t last too long. When you decided to switch we asked you if that was the case and said OK no problem. Right? So if you had not lied then that would have been it. If you had said we switched because we could get it at a quarter of the cost because it uses cheaper components I would have respected that and said good luck. Going forward lets be honest and there will be room for both products in the market. This will only be beneficial to your community.

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Originally Posted by JohnNJ

I'll break this down for you.

1) I do not have to defend Rich, period. He knows more than I ever will about any of this. I do not have any stake in this and only put my two cents in because your attitude irked me. I don't even like Rich (just kidding).

2) I somehow got the idea that Flexwatt was manufactured in Canada. Not sure how I came up with that. I had my concerns about your product but Rich explained how I could use it and keep my snakes relatively safe so I bought some. Rich never told me that Flexwatt was made in Asia but I would have felt better about it over being made in Canada. No offense Canadians.

3) Rich never refused to tell me where his tape is made. He refused to tell YOU, his competition. Again, smart guy. - I know who makes it John. I just feel that he should let you know. you are not talking about something that if it fails its no big deal.

4) I agree that Rich should state the facts about a product. For years Rich told his customers that Flexwatt could be hazardous and could cause damage to our equipment and death to our reptiles. He explained that Flexwatt could even harm us if not used properly. But he also told us how to avoid these horrible situations and put our safety and the safety of our pets first.



5) Please don't be concerned that anyone will mistake THG for Flexwatt. You can see the difference when you look at it and when you feel it.

Hopefully I made my points clearly. No need to respond.

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Originally Posted by Ed gilmartin

I was going on a statement from one of your employees as to where your element or some other component you were waiting on to fill my order comes from – Again not true!

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How do you know one of your people didn't say anything like that. Oh yes I forgot you are everywhere at all times

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Originally Posted by Ed gilmartin

We are making it and we are standing behind it. – Another untrue statement. And this product was also not made for the reptile industry. You and I both know that. It is a by product for floor heat etc.

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How can you say they will not stand behind it? Also how can you say it wasn't made for the reptile industry?

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Originally Posted by Ed gilmartin

I do not bad mouth your product and try to hi jack threads on others products. – This is the sole reason I even got on these forums. To correct your lies about our product.

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I'm sorry but you have bad mouthed the product quite a bit. As to hi jacking threads this one is a perfect example. The OP I don't think ever did mention you as the compeditor. Only that it was THG Heat tape test results. I have not hears any lies about your product as of yet. Rich said that he was told about something having to be ordered from overseas and that is where that came from. I believe Rich also said that he was sorry about that but you keep pounding him about it.

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Originally Posted by Ed gilmartin

On the humidity and temps effecting oxidation- Ever been to Florida? Without direct exposure to the elements you are just fine. – What has Florida got to do with oxidization? Oxidization occurs in dry air and is very slightly increased in damp conditions. But humidity does not cause oxidization.

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Yes you are a bit correct but it does increase quite a bit when you are talking damp conditions. I mean my house is over 100 years old and the wiring is just fine. the key word is exposure. If the connections are covered with insulation there would be limited exposure. You have yet to answer any of my questions. Mainly with your connectors. When they crimp down don't the teeth go into the bus? in doing so it would go through the tin coating and expose the copper? In doing so you would be opening it up to oxidation.

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Originally Posted by Ed gilmartin

I too will stop with this round and round. You bad mouthed our product saying we were made in Asia, we ignored you, we use the same flawed copper bus bars, the THG is more stable etc. That is why I looked at who manufactures THG film and thought you were crazy to start this. Especially that the product is one of the most unstable products available. Yes you will get by for a short time but that won’t last too long. When you decided to switch we asked you if that was the case and said OK no problem. Right? So if you had not lied then that would have been it. If you had said we switched because we could get it at a quarter of the cost because it uses cheaper components I would have respected that and said good luck. Going forward lets be honest and there will be room for both products in the market. This will only be beneficial to your community.

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You are bad mouthing them in this paragraph in doing so just trying to egg them on. The only reason you have started doing this is because it I think it is hurting your bottom line more than you know and you are backtracking about something that you never cared about in the first place.

I mean I am a customer I have commented on, with this one makes it 3 of your posts not and not 1 reply from you to me. To me this shows that I must be hitting a nerve that have some truth to them that you can not stand. I will say again and I should post the message that you sent me on here back on Jan 8th. that sounds so much like a threat to THG that it is not funny.
You need to chill out and face the facts that someone else has entered a domain that you though you had cornered but got the floor pulled out from under you. Plus you really lost me when you started putting numbers out there on the other thread. That in itself was really unprofessional.

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Originally Posted by mattb

Ok here we go again.

#1 from both posts that you ramble in you seem to be the only one that just has to know who manufactures the new product. It seems you would want to know since it is the biggest competition that you have in an industry that you never cared about anyway until Rich and Robyn came out with this new heat tape.

#2 I don’t find it one bit suspicious that they don’t reveall it. Does KFC tell you what their secret recipe is? You stated that you have other companies trying to steal your mixes so it would be your own fault for putting your processes out there.

#3 So you tell Rich to tell us what tests he ran to prove it was stable then in your rambling you say you tested and you don’t even say how you tested and in what conditions you tested. I am sure I could do the same to your product as well. Everything can be made to fail under the right conditions.



#1 Ok the first sentence makes no sense at all.

#2 Who are you to say that Rich and Robyn will not stand behind their product? Just because they will not shout out to the world who makes it does not mean that they will not stand behind it.

#3 You say that you are not bullying. Well as far as I could see your biggest problem was Rich saying where your product was not right. Ok I can understand you wanting to correct that. However you have gone far beyond that saying in the other thread that you will make sure the results on the test you run on his product will not be pretty. Also nothing I have seen on this thread has made any comments as to where your product was made yet you still bring that up.

#4 I am all about being made in the USA but sometimes it is just not possible. So you can just stop that. How many thing in your own home are made in the USA? Your TV? Your Car? Your computer? So just because its made in the US does not mean that it is quality. There are a lot of thing that are made in the US that are crap. So not a valid point.

#5 Again I ask you. How long after you started making your product did you receive your ISO certs and UL listing? These things do not come over night so I am betting that you were selling your product for a while before you got them.



I find it hard to believe that you could not take people suggestions when it came to these things instead you have to hire someone once competition comes into town and has your back against the wall. I think you approving these things and trying to push them out ASAP has me more worried about those products since you are doing it to get back into a market that you never cared about in the first place.



#1 As stated in my comments above. How long did it take from the time you started selling them to the time they were UL listed? Again its not a process that happens overnight.

#2 As stated in my earlier comments to installing the connector it doesn’t matter which it is it can always fail.

#3 I would not doubt that Rich has spent thousands of hours explaining your connectors does not seem farfetched to me. Rich is one of the few people who will make sure his customer service is second to none and as long as he has sold your product he would take the time to help anyone that had a question. Usually within an hour or two not ignoring it for a few months. Plus what would you tell people if they called you. One they would have got a customer service person and two you had no cares about our industry anyway until it started hurting your pocket book.

#4 Calibrating your tools by hand I think is BS it is my thought that you have the dies custom made and you check one in each batch to see if it works. While we are on the topic of that where are your crimpers made? What exactly would your warranty cover if something were to happen.



This whole paragraph only needs one response. BS. All home and car wiring is copper. And with your connectors it would punch through the tin coating and expose the copper or whatever was underneath. That is why you cover the connectors so that the bus is not exposed to the open air and moisture.



Again you say that you are not bullying but this is just threat after threat. Do you do the same thing when you go somewhere to eat and they won’t tell you their secret recipe? Who is to say that your product is far superior? Of course you because you have everything in this community to lose. You have already stated many times before that you never cared about this industry before THG heat tape came out. So that would mean that your motivation now would strictly be the loss of money in your pocket because there is someone that truly cares about this industry that is making a product made just for us.



You are right that we love our animals. I cannot speak for all the other owners in this industry only myself. You talk about Safety standards. I would always trust Rich and Robyn any day over someone who only has their eye on the bottom line. Everyone in this hobby/industry know about the tragedy at Pro Exotics and I really doubt that Robyn would put his name behind something that was not safe.

I wish your new reptile expert the best of luck. With that said I am laid off at the moment and I don’t even know if I would want to be that expert. He or she has their work cut out for them in terms of you coming out and pretty much attacking some of the most respected people for supplies in our industry/hobby. Just know that every word you say makes a big impact on people some maybe in a good way but often in a bad way.

I know I have been long winded and if anyone else has anything to point out that I missed feel free to.

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#1 from both posts that you ramble in you seem to be the only one that just has to know who manufactures the new product. It seems you would want to know since it is the biggest competition that you have in an industry that you never cared about anyway until Rich and Robyn came out with this new heat tape. - I already know and Rich knows that I know so don’t think this is me trying to get something out of him. That was easy. The poor ink mix gave it away as well as the UR number on the tape. Take a look yourself you will feel very foolish when you find out and reread your comments!

#2 I don’t find it one bit suspicious that they don’t reveall it. Does KFC tell you what their secret recipe is? You stated that you have other companies trying to steal your mixes so it would be your own fault for putting your processes out there. – Exactly that is what im getting at. Like KFC we will not disclose our ink mix or make up. But we will disclose who we are just like KFC lets you know they are KFC. Would you buy “Kentucky Fried Chicken” from an unknown person claiming he is KFC but will not disclose anything more? We disclose or manufacturing process so you know you are getting a safe product but we wont tell you or ink mix. Any reputable company is not afraid to disclose who they are. To use your analogy Apple do not sell the Ipad/Ipod/Iphone and hide Apples name!!

#3 So you tell Rich to tell us what tests he ran to prove it was stable then in your rambling you say you tested and you don’t even say how you tested and in what conditions you tested. I am sure I could do the same to your product as well. Everything can be made to fail under the right conditions. – It was an accelerated ink test. It shows stability over time without having to wait years to find out. Give it a try and see if our product fluctuates more than +/- 1%.



#1 Ok the first sentence makes no sense at all. – Rich said that I think if we don’t make it then it is not good. Therefore I stated that the only company that makes a product that is close to our is FLexel. You will be familiar with the Ultratherm they make. Read it again and you will understand what I am saying.

#2 Who are you to say that Rich and Robyn will not stand behind their product? Just because they will not shout out to the world who makes it does not mean that they will not stand behind it. – If you have nothing to hide I could have been shut up after the first time I posted. I am sure they will have a warranty if they stand behind it.

#3 You say that you are not bullying. Well as far as I could see your biggest problem was Rich saying where your product was not right. Ok I can understand you wanting to correct that. However you have gone far beyond that saying in the other thread that you will make sure the results on the test you run on his product will not be pretty. Also nothing I have seen on this thread has made any comments as to where your product was made yet you still bring that up. – I don’t have to make sure of anything it is what it is. If I came across as saying I would make sure it failed then I apologize. I would not do that. If it was a good product I would admit that and move on. I am pissed that he would lie about our product. I think you would feel the same if lies were told about something you are proud of.

#4 I am all about being made in the USA but sometimes it is just not possible. So you can just stop that. How many thing in your own home are made in the USA? Your TV? Your Car? Your computer? So just because its made in the US does not mean that it is quality. There are a lot of thing that are made in the US that are crap. So not a valid point. – Agreed. But the only reason I am repeating this is because when questioned by a breeder Rich said ours was made in Asia to try to put us on the same level as THG knowing that THG was inferior. That is what got me annoyed to begin with.

#5 Again I ask you. How long after you started making your product did you receive your ISO certs and UL listing? These things do not come over night so I am betting that you were selling your product for a while before you got them. – You are 100% right. When we invented thin film radiant heat in 1980 there were no standards for it and it took a while to get UL to add a standard because we were the only company that made the product. Now we are the only UL listed radiant heat available.



I find it hard to believe that you could not take people suggestions when it came to these things instead you have to hire someone once competition comes into town and has your back against the wall. I think you approving these things and trying to push them out ASAP has me more worried about those products since you are doing it to get back into a market that you never cared about in the first place. – We have been manufacturing thin film radiant heat since 1980. We add new screens easily and change watt densities on demand. No need to worry. It is not that we did not care it is that we did not understand your industry. I am not trying to say I am a reptile expert. That would be a lie. There are a lot of people that do not understand your industry. I have to be honest I never thought it would interest me but after checking out our reps animals. Pretty dam cool. My mind has changed. Our back are not up against the wall. It was the lie about our product that got my attention.



#1 As stated in my comments above. How long did it take from the time you started selling them to the time they were UL listed? Again its not a process that happens overnight. – Correct it take 90 days.

#2 As stated in my earlier comments to installing the connector it doesn’t matter which it is it can always fail. – Both can fail. But the chances of arcing are a hell of a lot higher when you pre punch a hole. We have a similar connection for embedded products but your use is not embedded in a ceiling or in a slab that cannot be moved once installed. You have to constantly move the product. Very dangerous in this environment. It looks to me that the manufacturer said “here use these connections” rather than think to say “we need something more secure for use where the product will be moved around on a continuous basis”. This is not the manufacturer or Richs fault. It is a common mistake.

#3 I would not doubt that Rich has spent thousands of hours explaining your connectors does not seem farfetched to me. Rich is one of the few people who will make sure his customer service is second to none and as long as he has sold your product he would take the time to help anyone that had a question. Usually within an hour or two not ignoring it for a few months. Plus what would you tell people if they called you. One they would have got a customer service person and two you had no cares about our industry anyway until it started hurting your pocket book. – when did we ignore you for months? Did you get a customer service person when you called? It is not that we were ignoring your industry. We thought you had what you needed and we knew it was safe. I think you will agree that this will just be better for your industry. Where I am from Men do NOT carry pocket books!

#4 Calibrating your tools by hand I think is BS it is my thought that you have the dies custom made and you check one in each batch to see if it works. While we are on the topic of that where are your crimpers made? What exactly would your warranty cover if something were to happen. – Nope you cannot have them custom made. They come with an adjuster that has to be set using our 9 and 16 mil films. This cannot even be done by machine. All done by hand. We do not manufacture crimp tools so we do NOT warranty them.



This whole paragraph only needs one response. BS. All home and car wiring is copper. – Before the 60s it was TIN PLATED copper. Now I only know of aluminum wiring. Maybe its time to move houses. And with your connectors it would punch through the tin coating and expose the copper or whatever was underneath. And that is exactly why we use the UL rated AMP connectors and printed silver. You are scraping the bottom of the barrel with this one. That is why you cover the connectors so that the bus is not exposed to the open air and moisture. – The “cover” is not air proof. Unless THG suck the air out before the tape is covered but you would probably have to have the connections made before they leave the manufacturing plant.



Again you say that you are not bullying but this is just threat after threat. – I think you mean fact after fact. Do you do the same thing when you go somewhere to eat and they won’t tell you their secret recipe? - No but if I am in Burger King I know its burger king. They do not hide that. I am not looking for their ink mix I just thought they should be open about the manufacturer. Don’t you find it funny that such a great product hides the manufacturer? Who is to say that your product is far superior? I just stated all the reasons why it is superior. Read the facts again and let me know how THG is superior or even close to ours. I just stated the costly materials we use as opposed to cutting corners and the processes. We make top quality products and have high standard to manufacture to in the US. Of course you because you have everything in this community to lose. You have already stated many times before that you never cared about this industry before THG heat tape came out. - No I did not. I stated that we never heard a need to change anything. I do not understand your community but to say that I don’t care is different than not understanding. So that would mean that your motivation now would strictly be the loss of money in your pocket because there is someone that truly cares about this industry that is making a product made just for us. - don’t kid yourself. THG is not made just for you. You are an afterthought. I admit you were an afterthought by us also but now that we took notice this will change. This is a great thing for your community. We thought you were satisfied with what we made and now we know there are other steps we could take and we will take them. I apologize for this but all our distributors and the new distributors we signed up recently have been very happy.



You are right that we love our animals. I cannot speak for all the other owners in this industry only myself. You talk about Safety standards. I would always trust Rich and Robyn any day over someone who only has their eye on the bottom line. Everyone in this hobby/industry know about the tragedy at Pro Exotics and I really doubt that Robyn would put his name behind something that was not safe. – If I had my eye on the bottom line I would be focused on military targets or primary heat with solar PV or high speed rail deicing etc. We failed you and will fix that. The first step was to spend money to hire someone from your industry. We will not make a lot of money with the additional expenses but will definitely not lose because people think the Korean knock off is ours. I am not saying rich and robyn would not want a safe product for you. That would be absurd. What I am saying is that they and you should look at the facts I am pointing out and question them. Do you think a Korean company will tell Rich and Robyn about the instability of their ink or the cheap current carrying buss bars and how they could be dangerous in your application? Come on man. If you think that I have a bridge I’ll sell you in Brooklyn!

I wish your new reptile expert the best of luck. - Thank you. He has already added three distributors and is pushing us to get new, needed products for your industry. With that said I am laid off at the moment and I don’t even know if I would want to be that expert. He or she has their work cut out for them in terms of you coming out and pretty much attacking some of the most respected people for supplies in our industry/hobby. – I wish you all the best in finding some work. I know it must be very difficult. I am not attacking anyone. If I came across as doing so I apologize. That is not in my nature but I will correct lies and state facts to set us apart. That’s all. Just know that every word you say makes a big impact on people some maybe in a good way but often in a bad way. – I hope not. And again I wish you all the best. I am going to send this to our new rep. If he keeps growing at the rate he has been he will need help. I am obviously not promising anything but hate to hear anyone is out of work. I respect your sticking up for someone you have been dealing with for years. I have people that do the same for me. It is a good trait to have. No hard feelings but if people read this and demand answers before purchasing an electric heating product then I am happy. If they get the right answers and feel comfortable then buy what you feel most comfortable with.

I know I have been long winded and if anyone else has anything to point out that I missed feel free to.

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Originally Posted by mattb

Ok here we go again.

#1 from both posts that you ramble in you seem to be the only one that just has to know who manufactures the new product. It seems you would want to know since it is the biggest competition that you have in an industry that you never cared about anyway until Rich and Robyn came out with this new heat tape.

#2 I don’t find it one bit suspicious that they don’t reveall it. Does KFC tell you what their secret recipe is? You stated that you have other companies trying to steal your mixes so it would be your own fault for putting your processes out there.

#3 So you tell Rich to tell us what tests he ran to prove it was stable then in your rambling you say you tested and you don’t even say how you tested and in what conditions you tested. I am sure I could do the same to your product as well. Everything can be made to fail under the right conditions.



#1 Ok the first sentence makes no sense at all.

#2 Who are you to say that Rich and Robyn will not stand behind their product? Just because they will not shout out to the world who makes it does not mean that they will not stand behind it.

#3 You say that you are not bullying. Well as far as I could see your biggest problem was Rich saying where your product was not right. Ok I can understand you wanting to correct that. However you have gone far beyond that saying in the other thread that you will make sure the results on the test you run on his product will not be pretty. Also nothing I have seen on this thread has made any comments as to where your product was made yet you still bring that up.

#4 I am all about being made in the USA but sometimes it is just not possible. So you can just stop that. How many thing in your own home are made in the USA? Your TV? Your Car? Your computer? So just because its made in the US does not mean that it is quality. There are a lot of thing that are made in the US that are crap. So not a valid point.

#5 Again I ask you. How long after you started making your product did you receive your ISO certs and UL listing? These things do not come over night so I am betting that you were selling your product for a while before you got them.



I find it hard to believe that you could not take people suggestions when it came to these things instead you have to hire someone once competition comes into town and has your back against the wall. I think you approving these things and trying to push them out ASAP has me more worried about those products since you are doing it to get back into a market that you never cared about in the first place.



#1 As stated in my comments above. How long did it take from the time you started selling them to the time they were UL listed? Again its not a process that happens overnight.

#2 As stated in my earlier comments to installing the connector it doesn’t matter which it is it can always fail.

#3 I would not doubt that Rich has spent thousands of hours explaining your connectors does not seem farfetched to me. Rich is one of the few people who will make sure his customer service is second to none and as long as he has sold your product he would take the time to help anyone that had a question. Usually within an hour or two not ignoring it for a few months. Plus what would you tell people if they called you. One they would have got a customer service person and two you had no cares about our industry anyway until it started hurting your pocket book.

#4 Calibrating your tools by hand I think is BS it is my thought that you have the dies custom made and you check one in each batch to see if it works. While we are on the topic of that where are your crimpers made? What exactly would your warranty cover if something were to happen.



This whole paragraph only needs one response. BS. All home and car wiring is copper. And with your connectors it would punch through the tin coating and expose the copper or whatever was underneath. That is why you cover the connectors so that the bus is not exposed to the open air and moisture.



Again you say that you are not bullying but this is just threat after threat. Do you do the same thing when you go somewhere to eat and they won’t tell you their secret recipe? Who is to say that your product is far superior? Of course you because you have everything in this community to lose. You have already stated many times before that you never cared about this industry before THG heat tape came out. So that would mean that your motivation now would strictly be the loss of money in your pocket because there is someone that truly cares about this industry that is making a product made just for us.



You are right that we love our animals. I cannot speak for all the other owners in this industry only myself. You talk about Safety standards. I would always trust Rich and Robyn any day over someone who only has their eye on the bottom line. Everyone in this hobby/industry know about the tragedy at Pro Exotics and I really doubt that Robyn would put his name behind something that was not safe.

I wish your new reptile expert the best of luck. With that said I am laid off at the moment and I don’t even know if I would want to be that expert. He or she has their work cut out for them in terms of you coming out and pretty much attacking some of the most respected people for supplies in our industry/hobby. Just know that every word you say makes a big impact on people some maybe in a good way but often in a bad way.

I know I have been long winded and if anyone else has anything to point out that I missed feel free to.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by mattb

Get off your high horse Ed. You have not stated any facts whatsoever about why your product is better than THG only you opinion. You have yet to respond to any of the things I pointed out. So I will point out again you said many people have tried to copy your ink yet you have put your processes out for all to see and that's your own fault. I feel you trying to make him reveal his manufacture is your own kind of slander saying he isn't being truthful and lying is bull. You have pretty much been the only person that has been pushing to find out who is making his product. This all from someone who never have any thought or care to this industry. And then trying to speak for the community saying that we deserve to hear who makes it. Being that your an outsider to reptiles you have no authority to speak for me. Especially since you have been contacted before from other people about changing products, but never found that to be important enough till your bottom line is effected.

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Matt

I have never been contacted by anyone about this product until I posted on this site for the first time a month or so ago. I then hired a rep from your industry. I am not just speaking to your community. I understand the product we invented and are the world leader in. Whether it is for reptile heat or floor warming or whatever this product can be dangerous. it is the nature of the product. I think anyone installing or using it for any purpose should be informed of the manufacturer. You wouldnt buy an electric heater or electric toaster from a company that does not manufacture the product and hides who does. Would you?

This is like one of those Turbo Tax vs. H&R Block commercials : )

Ok I just had to bring this back up after your comment about me finding a new house. I had to do my research so I knew exactly that I was giving correct information. I just will not stand for someone telling me that I should go looking for a new house. I am sorry to everyone for bringing it back up but I had to stand up for myself here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ed gilmartin

Exactly that is what im getting at. Like KFC we will not disclose our ink mix or make up. But we will disclose who we are just like KFC lets you know they are KFC. Would you buy “Kentucky Fried Chicken” from an unknown person claiming he is KFC but will not disclose anything more? We disclose or manufacturing process so you know you are getting a safe product but we wont tell you or ink mix. Any reputable company is not afraid to disclose who they are. To use your analogy Apple do not sell the Ipad/Ipod/Iphone and hide Apples name!!

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Hate to tell you but Apple came up with the iPhone and sells it, but they do not manufacture it all their parts are subcontracted.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ed gilmartin

Where I am from Men do NOT carry pocket books!

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So what do you carry it in? A pocket book is another name for a wallet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ed gilmartin

Before the 60s it was TIN PLATED copper. Now I only know of aluminum wiring. Maybe its time to move houses. And with your connectors it would punch through the tin coating and expose the copper or whatever was underneath. And that is exactly why we use the UL rated AMP connectors and printed silver. You are scraping the bottom of the barrel with this one. That is why you cover the connectors so that the bus is not exposed to the open air and moisture. – The “cover” is not air proof. Unless THG suck the air out before the tape is covered but you would probably have to have the connections made before they leave the manufacturing plant.

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Ok this comment really got me going and led me to do some research and is the main reason why I am dredging this post back up just to respond back to you. How dare you say that its time for me to find a new house. I bet you have haven’t done your research. If all you know is Aluminum wiring I think its time for YOU to find a new house. From my local electricians union house wiring is 100% copper. Now from my own research.

“In North American residential construction, aluminum wire was used to wire entire houses for a short time from the late 1960s to the late 1970s during a period of high copper prices. Wiring devices (outlets, switches, fans, etc.) at the time were not designed with the particular properties of aluminum wire in mind and there were problems with the properties of the wire itself. Older wiring devices not originally rated for aluminum wiring present a fire hazard. Revised manufacturing standards for wiring devices were required.”

Now heavy duty aluminum wire is used in the transmission of electricity due to the cost involved but not in houses.

“Problems with aluminum wires
Aluminum wires have been implicated in house fires. There are several possible reasons why these connections failed. The two main reasons were improper installation and the differences in the coefficient of expansion between aluminum wire used in the 1960s and the terminations.”

Also you may want to check your insurance if you do have aluminum because I also found this.

“Hazard insurance
In some states of the United States, home hazard insurance will not cover homes with any aluminum wiring, and some insurance companies that claim to cover it charge a higher premium than for homes with copper wiring.”

such drama on here. I think its funny that matt guy is a cheerleader but besides that i have purchased both flexwatt and thg from reptile basics and personally i think the flexwatt gets hotter than thg. I will continue to use both and see how it works out.:gj: