Ugh.. I think she's sick

I finally have an update.. And that's that there is no update. sigh.. They were too busy to do any of the testing they said they would do. Nice, eh? So they're keeping her there tonight and possibly over the whole weekend if I ask them to. And I probably will ask them to.

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Originally Posted by Inarikins

I'll just quote Slim here. Since you're ignoring him, you probably haven't read this yet.





You've refused to actually separate your snakes. That seems to be refusing advice. When we say 'separate' we mean 'different enclosures'.



Obviously not, if they have mites and are sick.



A glass enclosure is fine so long as it provides all the right husbandry which includes not being in the same enclosure as another snake and in one that's much too big besides. Maybe you should listen to what I'm saying instead of telling me I said something I didn't. Did I ever say 'you suck'? No.



Hey, I know stress is a semi-healthy thing. I'm sorry I'm apparently not the wizard at 'reading between the lines' that you are. I'm sorry I only have an english degree and know exactly how to deconstruct what you're saying for meaning and intent. I apologize that I come of as a 6 year old, but you're the one calling me names.

Also, I'm done with this thread. I'm not going to wish your snake's death on you, but if she does pass because of your inadequate care I hope it's peaceful and pain-free. And I hope any of your other pets don't manage to get sick despite their lack of care because you sure won't make sure they have what they need. And I really hope that you don't foster any animals ever because they didn't ask to be moved into a home where there are things that might make them ill.

Moderators, if I've crossed the line somewhere, please be sure to correct me, I would appreciate it.

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My coworker are wondering why I'm laughing so hard. Oh wait, you must know this already as you seem to know me more than even I do.

Hey, let me actually say thing that would warrant the kind of treatment I've been getting from the select few here..

Um, I have 2 snakes, they both live in a small tupperware box with holes cut in the top with a knife. I put them by the stove to keep them warm. I know they poop in there after they eat, but my cleaning schedule is every 2nd friday of every month. Nah, I won't separate them. I think they actually enjoy eachother's company. Nah, I won't feed them full grown mice because I think those are gross. I much rather buy the cute little hoppers. NOt go back to the herp store? watchatalkinbout?! I love those guys. They're the ones who told me to put these guys together! No, I've seen how they keep their reptiles in little plastic tubs. If it's good for them, it's good for me. Those guys are experts, afterall. Sick shick, she doesn't need to see a vet. She's a reptile! reptiles live under rocks in the wild. Ever seen a vet in the wild? sheesh.. you guys are just ignant. juuuust ignant.

Let the praise being.....

And you wonder why you're being treated with distaste, acting like a miffed middle schooler... :rolleyes:

I think everybody is wasting their breath.

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

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Originally Posted by Manasha-Bogo

Not my fault if the animal came sick from the place I got it, now is it?
Should have taken her to the vet 2 weeks ago. Agreed. I said as much in an earlier post. Hindsight is 20/20. Do you want me to commit seppuku for not having done something I probably should have? Did anyone recommend in the other thread that I should take her to the vet? No. So that hindsight = 20/20 applies to everyone who got worked up over the separation issue. Everyone was too blinded by the fact they were living together to see that just maybe she was really sick and needed to be seen by a vet.

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Nobody mentioned anything about a vet visit because 90% of the time, a husbandry change will solve everything.
Your snake could have come to you sick, but maybe it didn't. Housing her with the male in a bearded dragon set up certainly didn't help her get better if she was sick in the first place. It probably made her worse.
Any kind of stress on a reptile is HUGE. It's not like stress on humans or mammals. Reptile stress can lower it's immune system and make it more susceptible to illness and/or infection.

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Agreed. Which is why I give all my animals a clean and appropriate environment. And if I don't know how or have questions, I go looking for the right answers. Hence, why I am here. But to tell you the truth I have spent more time here explaining my personal decisions than I have learning anything new.

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Last time I looked, housing 2 mite infested snakes together in a dragon set up isn't clean, nor appropriate....But it sounds like that's all solved except for the egg crate thing. But we all said enough about that. So moving on.

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Why does your snake care sheet list glass enclosures as one of the acceptable living quarters for a ball python if it is, in fact, so frowned upon? Maybe you should file a complaint with the board moderators instead of trying to convince me that I suck. lol!

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Glass enclosures are FINE. But tubs work very well as a temporary set up or a quarantine enclosure until your girl gets better. You even mentioned you couldn't use the other tanks in your house, so we suggested a very cheap and easy solution.

Like we all mentioned before, separating a sick animal should be your first priority in order to keep your male healthy. Why leave him in the same enclosure with the sick female? The egg crate does NOTHING to keep pathogens from going through. You need a solid barrier at the very very least. What if your female was contagious? Your male could have caught whatever she had. Then you would have to treat another animal and pay double for the vet bill. Twice the bill, double the effort in caring for a sick animal, and double the heart ache if both died.

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Lol, stress is a healthy (yes, healthy) thing. But don't take my word for it, look it up yourself. It's "too much" stress that is bad. When it starts to affect your health and makes you age prematurely. Maybe another mistake I have made is to assume you can read between the lines and could tell what I meant. Sorry, next time I'll spell things out like you're a 6 year old.

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Ok. Stress on you may be alright. But as everyone mentioned, your priority should be on your current animals. You want to help animals. I like people who try to help animals. But you contradict yourself so much with that statement .You said you want to foster to help those birds. Well, you're not helping out your current sick animals by putting your time and energy into the potential new animals.

On average, it takes snakes a decent amount of time to recover fully from being ill.
They're not like mammals where they bounce back within a week. Treating your snake can take anywhere from a few weeks to months.
That puts stress on your snake.
Like I mentioned before, stress promotes a lowered immune system in snakes. First, you housed both of your snakes together. Yes they're physically 'separated' now, but you can bet that being together before was probably stressful for them too. Snakes sharing an enclosure are constantly fighting for dominance of the best spot in the cage(often mistaken as cuddling).

Second, your snakes are still recovering from mites. That alone is pretty stressful.

And now your girl is in critical condition. All that stress adds up to a majorly sick snake.

So all in all, your snake could have come to you sick. But with everything I mentioned above, it certainly made things much worse.

Please don't take any of this the wrong way. This is a great forum. The members here are very experienced and knowledgeable. They're all giving very good advice to improve the well being of your animals.

Lastly, I'm sorry if I sounded harsh or mean in this post. I just got frustrated from reading all the back and forth bickering.

I really wanted to give this forum the benefit of the doubt. In all my years it is by far the worst. And I feel bad saying that because I respect everyone who has messaged me privately apologizing for the rest of you and offering more advice. It's a shame that the loudest voices on this board are the ones coming from the smallest minds.

I wish everyone and their snakes the very best on these boards. If you would like to know what ends up happening with manasha, please IM me here privately and I'll share with you my email address.

Thanks to everyone who has been helpful to me up until this point.

-T

Who are the people who were PMing you to apologize for people here? I'm curious. I really want to know. I don't think there's anybody here that knows anything about snakes that would agree with what you're saying, much less apologize to you for those of us that keep telling you what you need to do.

We've been nothing but helpful. The only time we got snarky is when you made it clear you had no real intention to help your snakes and do what had to be done as soon as possible.

I hope your snake lives and recovers and goes on to live a good life and all I can wish is that you would take the advice you have so far been ignoring and correct your husbandry. For your snakes and all your animals.

No need to tell us who PMed you. What I really want to know is what kind of advice you were given that was different from what was given here.
I honestly want to know in order to learn more options. That is what the forum is here for; to learn and share experiences.

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Originally Posted by Manasha-Bogo

since there seems to be an active interest in my personal life

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Actually, there is little interest in your personal life...you just keep bringing it up.

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Originally Posted by Manasha-Bogo

Something tells me you would not be satisfied with any answer I give you unless it sounded something like this. ""You're so right, I don't know what I have been thinking. I have been so wrong in my ways. I can't handle all of this crisis. I can't deal with all these things going wrong at once...

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Well, since the first of the twelve steps is to admit that you have a problem, it would be a good start.

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Originally Posted by Manasha-Bogo

If you can give me hard evidence of the advice that I refuse to take, please point those out to me.
Get them separated? Done.

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Originally Posted by Manasha-Bogo

they have been separated with a makeshift egg crate type divider for about a week or more.

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You didn't seperate them, you put a piece of cardboard between them. Not Done.

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Originally Posted by Daybreaker

^ Ditch the tank and get two 15-28qt tubs for each of them (~$6 a piece), get a UTH for both and get them regulated and there's your cheap setup for each of them.

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I'll let you answer this one with your own words:

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Originally Posted by Manasha-Bogo

3rd solution would be to toss out both tank altogether and get two smaller ones. But that seems like such a waste. I don't like throwing money away.

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More advice untaken. I thought you said money wasn't an issue? In fact, you said:

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Originally Posted by Manasha-Bogo

It has never been a matter of money. I have 7 other pets and they all get what they need including vet visits.

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Originally Posted by Manasha-Bogo

show me where I was rude when it was unwarranted

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Too Easy...

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Originally Posted by Manasha-Bogo

Please, I do have some amount of common sense.

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Originally Posted by Manasha-Bogo

READ my posts, why don't you? Do you honestly think I would be here and on 100 other sites reading up on sh!t if I didn't give ? Why should I blindly bow down and praise Allah for your advice...But if you want to yell and be condescending, then it will all fall on deaf ears. I don't respond well to tantrums. Not even from my kids.

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Originally Posted by Manasha-Bogo

If all of you gurus knew everything, they why would this message board exist? Don't preach to me about what is important. Don't assume I'm an idiot. Don't talk down to me. Actually, you know what ? Screw you hippies. I'll go back to that "other" herp site for my advice

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Originally Posted by Manasha-Bogo

Sorry, next time I'll spell things out like you're a 6 year old.

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Originally Posted by Manasha-Bogo

sheesh.. you guys are just ignant. juuuust ignant.

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Originally Posted by Manasha-Bogo

In order to get sick only one thing must exist. Life.

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While I conceed this point, bad husbandry does have a tendency to hurry things along.

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Originally Posted by Manasha-Bogo

So they're keeping her there tonight and possibly over the whole weekend if I ask them to. And I probably will ask them to.

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Honesty, that is a much better place for your snake than where it has been.

Lol just read this whole thing. Idk how I missed this!

I wish I hadn't missed it either.

Another new member driven from the site by pointless repetitions and misreadings or skipping of posts.

Sometimes guys, it's better if you just pass on by the thread.

I swear somedays I wish the internet had never been invented. :taz:

I have to disagree with you on this one, Derek. If you go back and read her post history in both her first thread and this one, she received the same advice any new member would have gotten, given a similar situation. In fact, if you read her first thread, she was repeatedly given good advice in a patient manner. Advice she not only did not take, but had no problem posting about how she didn't take it.

As friendly as this site usually is 90% of the time, it truly takes two to tango. And to be further honest, no one has been run off the site, without first showing a bad attitude and disrespect. While I am sorry that the world is not all rainbows and sunshine, the reality is that some people do not take advice well...especially advice they a have asked for. It does not take a rocket surgeon to quickly decipher the psyche of a person who asks for advice looking only for validation of the fantasy world they have created in their own minds.

In certain situations, not calling a round nosed garden tool a round nosed garden tool does a disservice to the members of this forum, and the tool.

You know slim I have no issues with any advice u gave or think that u were wrong cause u werent but like dr del said sometimes its better to just pass on a thread and not sit and fight buddy. But oh well hindsight I guess


1.0 normal bp- Blitz
1.0 Nicaraguan boa- Gavin
0.1 Red Tail Boa- Tara

Eh I'm with slim on this one. Yes there was a little back and forth here. But some people just don't take constructive criticism well. People who don't, usually don't do well in the forum world.

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Originally Posted by Rob

Eh I'm with slim on this one. Yes there was a little back and forth here. But some people just don't take constructive criticism well. People who don't, usually don't do well in the forum world.

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more like in life in general*^

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Originally Posted by Manasha-Bogo

So?? what have I rejected ? Please point it out.

I've been rude? show me where I was rude when it was unwarranted.

Wow... I've seldom been in a message board where newcomers are so poorly treated. Why is it open to registration then?

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Your snide little comments, sarcasm and complete lack of respect for anyone trying to help to rude. Rudeness isn't strickly name calling. THIS is the reason we don't like you!

And lets see, they are only separated with a piece of egg crate, by your own admission. This is NOT separation! This leaves an open door to communicable diseases and illnesses. This is outright neglect if you ask me and now your snake is suffering and may die and your other has been exposed to whatever caused this. This could have been very easily avoided with proper care and research done beforehand. Now you want to add more animals to the ones you aren't even properly caring for? Forgive me if I find this extremely shady.

But whatever. I'm done with this drama crap. Next.

Personally, I don't think it was pointless repetition on our part. The OP stated many times that she has fixed her set up, yet she still has both snakes in the same tank with an improper barrier. Not to mention the female is apparently in "Critical" condition and exposed to the healthy male. The OP failed to address this issue and insisted her set up is fine. Yes, many of us reiterated many points multiple times, but it was to emphasis how crucial it is to house the snakes separately and put the female in quarantine.

I've no idea if the OP has gone yet... I'm not trying to insult anyone so please don't take this the wrong way...but have I missed the part about why you thought your BP would be ok in a bearded dragon set up with UV? Sorry, just wondering.

Also, I've not long joined the site and have asked for advice on problems, and have received nothing but friendly feedback. Plenty of members are still here, newcomers included.

This thread is just nuts. I miss Bpnet as it was a couple years ago :(


<---Signature--->
Snakes, Jeeps, Dragons, Nature, & Knives.. Makes my world go-round!

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

This thread is just nuts. I miss Bpnet as it was a couple years ago :(


<---Signature--->
Snakes, Jeeps, Dragons, Nature, & Knives.. Makes my world go-round!

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I totally agree with you. This place is just not the same anymore. :(

After reading this entire thread I'm surprised nobody has conjectured that the OP is just trolling like a madman? That's kind of my impression, or at least my hope.

Then again, the general lack of aptitude of the average person NEVER ceases to amaze me.

Poor snakes :(

There's no need for me to reveal who has been sending me private messages and apologizing for you. I'm sure they don't want to be berated too.

Anyone who knows me would attest that I'm always the first to admit when I'm wrong and so I will apologize for not explaining my intents more clearly. I never had this kind of trouble on a message board in my life (and I have been a member of many) so I went back and re-read every post and response I ever made on this board and I can see how things I said/typed may have been misinterpreted by others. I can't control how others choose to interpret what I write, but I will take responsibility for leaving room for interpretation.

The first place I see tempers flaring is when I said I was going back to the herp store and taking my snakes so they could see them and recommend prey size for me. I can see how to the people who had already said "feed them adult mice", this would have come across as a bit of an insult.

I have an analytical mind. It's what I do for a living. I can't change that. My trane of thought was that nobody here knew what her size was (weight or length or girth) so how could I trust with 100% certainty that I could take your word for it and feed my snake an adult mouse? I needed someone to eyeball the female and confirm what I was being told here. That was never meant to be an insult to your experience or knowledge. It is simply what I needed to do to be sure I was about to do the right thing. For Manasha, it wasn't, and I'm glad I never tried to give her an adult mouse. The vet said as much yesterday. She is just too small.

So everything seemed to go downhill after that and I wasn't sure why. Well, I think the above was the reason.

When I say things like "I thought I could trust the herp guy", that doesn't mean that I *still* trust the herp guy. That past tense (thought) means I no longer trust the herp guy. Maybe some people were looking for me to say "it's been done and here's a picture". But instead I said something more along the lines of "they're in the tank together for now, I'm waiting for the plexiglass to arrive". But that's not fast enough action for people who know I could just drive to Walmart and pick up a plastic tub.

In my mind, they can continue to live together for the 2 weeks it would take me to seperate them with acrylic instead of a plastic grill. Btw, it's not cardboard it's the plastic stuff you use to cover an overhead fluorescent light. Plastic but not solid.

I want to keep them in a glass/wood vivarium, not a plastic tub. So I'm focusing on making that happen, not spending money on a plastic bin and heating that I will stop using in 2 weeks.

I don't mind spending money on my pets for what they need including vet care, but I'm really not a fan of throwing it away either. To my buying plastic bins and heating while also spending money on an acrylic panel and UTH heating for the 75 is wasteful.

You may not agree, but it really is wrong when you punish someone for not doing exactly as you say at the pace you feel they should do it. I didn't explain all the circumstances surrounding my actions because I didn't think anyone needed to be bothered with it. Then when I did, start writing about everything else going on including my job, how it's between my house and the vets, my kids and how I was lugging them around yesterday, I'm told that I keep bringing up my personal life. Maybe I should have explained why I was bringing it all up?? I don't know anymore.

I'm taking the time to type this up for two reasons. #1) to try to make sense of all this because it just doesn't compute, and #2) I'm on a long and boring road trip at the moment and bored to death!!












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Deleted

What is the girth and weight of your snake? Is she under 100grams?

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Originally Posted by Manasha-Bogo

There's no need for me to reveal who has been sending me private messages and apologizing for you.

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I agree. However, I would still like to know what kind of advice they gave you. As a lady of science, I honestly would like to learn other potential options.
:)


I didn't read your other thread(s), so I'm not going to comment on the mouse thing, herp guy, etc.

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But instead I said something more along the lines of "they're in the tank together for now, I'm waiting for the plexiglass to arrive". But that's not fast enough action for people who know I could just drive to Walmart and pick up a plastic tub.

In my mind, they can continue to live together for the 2 weeks it would take me to seperate them with acrylic instead of a plastic grill. Btw, it's not cardboard it's the plastic stuff you use to cover an overhead fluorescent light. Plastic but not solid.

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But isn't 2 weeks still enough time for a sickness to spread if it was contagious? Why take the risk?

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I want to keep them in a glass/wood vivarium, not a plastic tub. So I'm focusing on making that happen, not spending money on a plastic bin and heating that I will stop using in 2 weeks.

I don't mind spending money on my pets for what they need including vet care, but I'm really not a fan of throwing it away either. To my buying plastic bins and heating while also spending money on an acrylic panel and UTH heating for the 75 is wasteful.

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You can still keep them in a traditional vivarium. The tub is just temporary.


And it sounds like you're buying an UTH anyway so how would you be spending additional money for heating a tub? (And don't forget the thermostat. You can't run a UTH without one.)

You can use the UTH for the temporary set up. And tubs don't have to come from Walmart. You can get them anywhere (Riteaide, CVS, etc), but Walmart seems to be the cheapest($2-5) from my experience of shopping around for storage tubs.


Personally, I don't think it would be much of a waste to get that tub. You can use that tub as a travel carrier for future vet visits or if you move. You can also use it to contain your snakes when you clean their enclosures. And if one has a bad shed, that can be used as a nice little soaking bath. And if your snake gets sick again, voila! Instant quarantine enclosure! :D
You can even use it to put your own stuff in in. There are lots of uses for a spare plastic storage tub. I know I reuse all my old tubs. Might as well right? lolol.

I mean...Since you're already spending the money on an UTH, the temporary tub is just an additional few bucks. (plus the thermostat)

Hi Satomi, thank you for your patient response. I realized as I read it that I was so uptight. I was expecting more negativity and felt relief wash over me when it didn't come. So thank you!!

Prior to getting the snakes, I had a bearded dragon that lived for 10 years and never got sick. He was the healthiest pet I had ever had. So I came into the snake world assuming that snakes were just as hearty. I never once had any emergencies with my previous reptile (which was my first reptile, ever, btw) that what I learned from that experience (albeit wrongfully) was that reptiles can handle a lot.

So that being said, the thought of having the snakes wait another 2 weeks when they had already been living in their current location for 3 months (eating well and with good temps) was not that big of a deal. Especially thinking that moving them would cause more stress than if I just let them be another 2 weeks.

I had never thought that a snake's health could go downhill so quickly as it did for my female. I'm learning the hard way this week that it can go from good to critical in the span of a couple days.

Btw, manasha is still with the vet in a controlled environment and I will leave her there until I am convinced that I have the proper habitat for her at home away and usolated from the male. I am not into breeding them and I'm not into expanding a reptile "collection" either (at least not yet). These guys are my pets and I think of them the same as I think of my dogs or birds. They mean a lot to me and I want them to be healthy and "happy" (as happy as a reptile is capable of being).

If I was to bring her home before the aqua/vivarium is ready, then I would most definitely get a tub with heating. It would be cheaper than keeping her at the vet's. But I think getting vet care right now is more important than bringing her home.

The vet called me today and explained the problem is severe anemia due to the mites. The mites are completely gone from the male, but the vet said the female still has them. They treat mites on snakes using frontline spray for cats in Europe. I don't know what the vet will do to treat mites still on manasha. The vet is more concerned with building her red blood cell count back up but I will ask about thi on Monday.

I told the vet something else must be going on to have fascilitated the mites from making her so ill. I said parasites. She said they would test for that when the snake finally poops.




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Hi,

Vets in europe are more likely to use callingtons nowadays.

We haven't quite caught up but we're getting there.

Hooray for Callingtons!!!

To Slim, DrDooLittle, and anyone else I may have butted heads with in the last few days,

I'd like to publicly apologize to you for whatever I may have said that was disrespectful and/or rude. I've put some thought into this tonight and realize how little it really matters to me whether I'm right or wrong. All that matters is that I have no ill blood with people (in person or online) and that my "kids" all be healthy and happy. That's all that I really want. And if apologizing so that I can continue to get good advice is what I have to do, then so be it.

Let me explain something about the illnesses my other pets now have.

Hookworm in my dog; already treated and dealt with. Must have come from other k9's at the dog park. Not all heartworm meds prevent hookworm and I'm looking into alternatives because this one (heartguard) didn't seem to do the job.

E. Cuniculi in both my rabbits. This is a protozoan infection that 50% to 80% of all domestic rabbits will test positive for. Only about 12% of these positives will ever be symptomatic. One of my rabbits isn't, the other might be. This is like a bunny HIV. There is no cure and for some rabbits it's a death sentence. There is nothing about quality of care that will make a difference with this disease except for one researcher's belief that dehydration might trigger symptoms. Considering that I refill 2 large bottles of water every other day because my female (the symptomatic one) drinks water like a race horse (and pees like one too).... Let's just say she has never gone without water. Her previous owners on the other hand, one can only guess.

So at this stage of my life, at the age of 40, with two young daughters and 10 pets of the animal-kind, I have never enjoyed their company and caring for them more at any other point. They are my passion right now. But I am cheap, always have been. But not when it comes to quality of food or medical care. With everything else, yes. Even to the point that it doesn't make sense. But I'm not too old to learn from my mistakes. :/

I appreciate everything, even the harsh words. I learn from those too.

And no, I am not a troll madman. Lol!!

To answer a question about what advice I was given in private messages. Nothing revolutionary. Just general tips on python housing, well wishes, and so on. But I was also assured this forum is a great place and those people confirmed it by reaching out to me. Every board has its ups and downs. I hope no other newcomers were put off by this awesome thread.

Enough rambling... Goodnight.


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Can't forget my other dog's tumors/cysts. I left that out. Doc wants $500 to have them biopsied. But the cysts aren't bothering him, he's had them for at least a year (small, subcutaneous, around the ribcage) and he is 15 years old anyway. I think we've decided to leave the dog alone unless or until he appears to be in pain from these things. But I will let that be my husband's decision as he seems to be a tad more attached to Bullet and sentimental about the thought of how old he is. Our house is a fun house, in more than one sense.


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You never did say what your ball weighs...

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Originally Posted by jbean7916

You never did say what your ball weighs...

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

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74 grams when weighed at the vets office on Thursday. (Two days ago.)

I don't know what's normal and what's not but I do know she is the same size she was she I got her while the male's weight has probably doubled. She had been eating the same amount he has but while he's fat and strong, she just looks dainty and fragile. In fact this past week she even felt lighter to me.

I ordered a scale on amazon that came highly recommended by a friend but that thing still hasn't arrived. I just looked and the damned order got canceled because of bad CC info.

She's usually more energetic that the male. I handle them 2,3 times a week. He likes to stay put wherever you put him and takes a while before he wants to venture out. But she likes to make a run for it. But this past week she was just not the same.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Manasha-Bogo

74 grams when weighed at the vets office on Thursday. (Two days ago.)

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Wow itty bitty thing. Well I hope it gets thru of this. Also you seem to be very interested in your animals best interest. So I really hope once you get it home you use the plethora of information this site has to offer.

Thanks. Yea, I wouldn't be surprised if she hasn't grown since birth. Because if she hasn't grown with me, then she probably hadn't grown with them. They had her in with 2 other snakes. The herp store I bought her from got her from another customer who's balls had babies (lol) and who goes to the store owner for advice and help.


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She is a tiny thing! My mojave girl came to us at 84g but we had her on a 3-4 day schedule until she hit 150g then moved her to a 5 day.

how old did you say she was? And did she come from a breeder? It sounds like she might have parasites but from what I understand that isn't very common from a captive bred snake...

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Manasha-Bogo

74 grams when weighed at the vets office on Thursday. (Two days ago.)

I don't know what's normal and what's not but I do know she is the same size she was she I got her while the male's weight has probably doubled. She had been eating the same amount he has but while he's fat and strong, she just looks dainty and fragile. In fact this past week she even felt lighter to me.

I ordered a scale on amazon that came highly recommended by a friend but that thing still hasn't arrived. I just looked and the damned order got canceled because of bad CC info.

She's usually more energetic that the male. I handle them 2,3 times a week. He likes to stay put wherever you put him and takes a while before he wants to venture out. But she likes to make a run for it. But this past week she was just not the same.


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You can buy a good scale at walmart or target in the kitchen supplies area, just buy a food scale that measures in grams. I have heard of people buying them for very cheap that work great. I bought mine off amazon and its the same one sold at reptile basics, I really like it...

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Originally Posted by jbean7916

She is a tiny thing! My mojave girl came to us at 84g but we had her on a 3-4 day schedule until she hit 150g then moved her to a 5 day.

how old did you say she was? And did she come from a breeder? It sounds like she might have parasites but from what I understand that isn't very common from a captive bred snake...

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Jbean, I already decided to pay a visit to the herp store next week to see if I can get any more information about manasha that might help me.

I bought her and Bogo end of Jan, beginning of Feb. this first pic I have is dated 2/2. And that's the one in my profile here. The other one where she's laying on her hide is from about 2 week ago or so.

They said she was 3 months old when I got her. Which would put her hatch date in November last year.

So 5 months of age going on 6.

They said she was breed by another customer with two pastels. Not a breeder


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Originally Posted by Manasha-Bogo

Jbean, I already decided to pay a visit to the herp store next week to see if I can get any more information about manasha that might help me.

I bought her and Bogo end of Jan, beginning of Feb. this first pic I have is dated 2/2. And that's the one in my profile here. The other one where she's laying on her hide is from about 2 week ago or so.

They said she was 3 months old when I got her. Which would put her hatch date in November last year.

So 5 months of age going on 6.

They said she was breed by another customer with two pastels. Not a breeder


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WOW, my last clutch averaged at 70g a baby (granted they were big eggs), so maybe she has a parasite or something. Is the vet taking a fecal sample?

http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/...fafacepalm.jpg Did you do ANY research before getting your bp? Did you even go over the care sheet? I mean there are tons of redlights popping up all over this thread, people keep giving you great information, Slim has helped me through a lot of problems, I could direct one of the members who I learned a greatful lesson from, and I am glad that he talked to me the way he did, got it through my thick teenage stubborn head. And on top of all that, you are trying to take in foster parrots, I mean seriously? Deal with what you have before getting more things!

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Originally Posted by Jasonx

http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/...fafacepalm.jpg Did you do ANY research before getting your bp? Did you even go over the care sheet? I mean there are tons of redlights popping up all over this thread, people keep giving you great information, Slim has helped me through a lot of problems, I could direct one of the members who I learned a greatful lesson from, and I am glad that he talked to me the way he did, got it through my thick teenage stubborn head. And on top of all that, you are trying to take in foster parrots, I mean seriously? Deal with what you have before getting more things!

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While I understand your frustration, I think this is enough. She has taken her snake to the vet and is doing the best she can and that is all that matters now. I think the OP has had enough scolding for a lifetime.

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Originally Posted by Manasha-Bogo

Jbean, I already decided to pay a visit to the herp store next week to see if I can get any more information about manasha that might help me.

I bought her and Bogo end of Jan, beginning of Feb. this first pic I have is dated 2/2. And that's the one in my profile here. The other one where she's laying on her hide is from about 2 week ago or so.

They said she was 3 months old when I got her. Which would put her hatch date in November last year.

So 5 months of age going on 6.

They said she was breed by another customer with two pastels. Not a breeder


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5 or 6 months and only 74g? That poor skinny girl! I hope you get the husbandry sorted out and get her back from the vet so you can get some weight on her!

I know you are putting a divider in your tank. Are you going to black out the sides and back? I wonder if just seeing bogo through the divider might stress her out since hes much bigger. I would look into a way to block the visual between them for awhile too.

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Originally Posted by Zombie

WOW, my last clutch averaged at 70g a baby (granted they were big eggs), so maybe she has a parasite or something. Is the vet taking a fecal sample?

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Yea that's what Im gonna do. I hate going shopping which is why I order everything but I'm just gonna suck it up and go to Target or Walmart when I get back into town.


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Originally Posted by Zombie

WOW, my last clutch averaged at 70g a baby (granted they were big eggs), so maybe she has a parasite or something. Is the vet taking a fecal sample?

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Yes she is. As soon as she has a bowel movement.

Doc sounded like she thought it was only the mites but said she' gonna do a full panel (whatever that means). The mites only came into the picture 3 weeks ago. Something else must be stunting her growth.


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Originally Posted by jbean7916

5 or 6 months and only 74g? That poor skinny girl! I hope you get the husbandry sorted out and get her back from the vet so you can get some weight on her!

I know you are putting a divider in your tank. Are you going to black out the sides and back? I wonder if just seeing bogo through the divider might stress her out since hes much bigger. I would look into a way to block the visual between them for awhile too.

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Yep, that's the plan! I want to run my ideas by everyone to get some constructive criticism. The only thing that worries me about it is being able to maintain good humidity with a screen top but I have ideas to deal with that too.

But without getting too detailed, the acrylic divider is a perfect fit and with sylicone sealant it will be an airtight boundary.

Then I will cover the back and sides with thin wood paneling

Hit save too soon.

So the only side not covered will be the front. And I'll install UTH. I may or may not reuse my lighting I built for a planted tank depending on how the temp behave in there. Don't wanna have it too hot and I want to make sure there is a cool side.

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Wow. She is tiny! :(
Poor thing.

I have 4 females born in November. So that makes them about the same age as your girl. They were about the same starting size too. The largest(youngest) one is currently ~500 g. The smallest one(oldest and a slow starter) is close to ~300.
The average growth of the whole lot is a little less than 100g a month just to give you a comparison.

Something is definitely not right. I hope the most your girl has is parasites. Those are easy to get rid of compared to other potential problems.

Ask your vet if there is an option of a cloaca wash to get a fecal sample. It can be a little stressful on the snake, but it will speed some tests up as it might take weeks for her to defecate on her own.
And a full panel just means a whole range of tests. (usually from either a blood or fecal sample.)

As for tank screen top and humidity, there are few options. You can use a larger water bowl and leave it in the hot side of the tank. You can cover 90% of the screen with tin foil, plexiglass, or a damp towel.

Keep us posted!

And thanks for sticking around and giving this forum another chance.

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Originally Posted by satomi325

Wow. She is tiny! :(
Poor thing.

I have 4 females born in November. So that makes them about the same age as your girl. They were about the same starting size too. The largest(youngest) one is currently ~500 g. The smallest one(oldest and a slow starter) is close to ~300.
The average growth of the whole lot is a little less than 100g a month just to give you a comparison.

Something is definitely not right. I hope the most your girl has is parasites. Those are easy to get rid of compared to other potential problems.

Ask your vet if there is an option of a cloaca wash to get a fecal sample. It can be a little stressful on the snake, but it will speed some tests up as it might take weeks for her to defecate on her own.
And a full panel just means a whole range of tests from a sample.

As for tank screen top and humidity, there are few options. You can use a larger water bowl and leave it in the hot side of the tank. You can cover 90% of the screen with tin foil, plexiglass, or a damp towel.

Keep us posted!

And thanks for sticking around and giving this forum another chance.

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Thanks! I will ask about the cloaca wash when I call for an update.

Yea I read up on what normal weight is supposed to be and it is shocking that she is this light weight.


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Btw, what is tapatalk 2? I use tapatalk, went looking for another version but all I can find is tapatalk (1) not 2.


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Originally Posted by Manasha-Bogo

Btw, what is tapatalk 2? I use tapatalk, went looking for another version but all I can find is tapatalk (1) not 2.


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Perhaps it is the version for Android phones. Maybe tapatalk is the Apple version for iPhone and tapatalk 2 is for other androids.

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Originally Posted by DrDooLittle

Perhaps it is the version for Android phones. Maybe tapatalk is the Apple version for iPhone and tapatalk 2 is for other androids.

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There was recently an update (at least for android) it looks completely different then it used to. Maybe just check if there is an update for the app.

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So, I heard from the vet again this evening.

I asked weight numbers again just in case I had been hearing things earlier. But no such luck.

Thursday: 74g
Today: 86g

They have been tube feeding her. Yesterday she was given ivermectin for the mites and fenbendazole for intestinal parasites. ( both meds I'm familiar with thanks to my rabbits ). They are wiping her down with mineral oil to remove the mites still on her. Note: It's strange to me that the male is mite free right now but she is not.

They will feed her again on Monday. They are giving her only small amounts of food in order not to overload her. I asked about alternative ways to get a fecal and the answer was they have to wait for her to poop on her own because using a tube to extract it won't get anything because snakes absorb all their food if they haven't eaten this long. The way he explained it made sense at the time. He (vet #2 this time, vet #1 is out today) explained snakes are not like humans in that we always have some amount of waste in our intestines at all times which you can go in and get. Not so with reptiles, he says.

But they have already treated for parasites anyway so it doesn't really matter now, I think. Except that we probably won't know for sure if she had parasites. Assuming a test on fecals would come back clear after treatment. (personal assumption)

They don't work Sunday so the next update will be Monday.


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