Quote Originally Posted by mainbutter View Post
I'm pretty sure that is more libertarian than liberal thinking.
Libertarian means you don't want anyone telling you what to do. What I was saying is that goverments goal should be to preserve rights for all. These things are all pretty subtle and I would say that I am in many ways a libertarian as well.


Quote Originally Posted by mainbutter View Post
This is more liberal thinking. Take it to a bigger extreme and it's socialist thinking(everyone has an equal opportunity because everyone shares everything through taxes). Take it to the biggest extreme you can think of and it's communism(everyone has an equal opportunity because there is no opportunity to be had.. lol). It all depends on what you consider "equal opportunity".
What you are doing there is called Reductio ad absurdum. Basically you are saying that being a liberal is wrong because of what taking my beliefs to the extreme are. I do not take my beliefs to the extreme and so I don't get your point. I am not a communist just a liberal.


And where does that leave non-christians? Just a question out of curiosity.
Well I am an atheist so that leaves us both at about the same place. You can believe that Jesus existed and was a stand up guy without being Christian.

I don't I'm not trying to argue with what you said, but I just wanted to clarify how the word "liberal" is used. The original use of "liberal" used to mean simply being open-minded to new ideas and change, and "conservative" to mean opposed to change and preserving things as they are. This has since become more atheist vs religious fanatic, pro-taxes vs anti-tax, banning guns vs 2nd amendment.. and numerous other issues that people talk about all the time.

The majority of people who call themselves "liberals" nowadays lean towards bigger federal government, smaller state and local government, favor high taxes, and want to restrict many liberties such as the right to bear arms while at the same time providing rights for gay couples and women wanting abortions

They are by no means in favor of increasing any and all civil liberties.

That is more the libertarian ideology(specifically just with regard to social issues, economic libertarianism is a little big seperate)

I am a pretty strong libertarian(almost anarchist.. but I sure do like them paving my roads) who is willing to compromise on some issues since I have never met a person who agrees 100% with what is important to me. I'm an atheist heathen to boot, which surely has shaped my views. When it comes to laws about drinking, drugs, sex, gambling, and other "vices", I'd love to see every single darn one of them repealed. In fact I'd love to see laws put in place to protect such rights.
Ok, if you want to see laws put in place you are certainly not an anarchist. I understand what the common perception of liberals is but I disagree with your assertion that liberals want to restrict liberties. I think you may be mixing up democrats with liberals now. Like I said I am a pretty strong libertarian who likes roads. I drink a bit, don't partake in any illegal drugs but don't much care about those who do in moderation. I gamble on occasion and like I said I'm an atheist. But I also think the government needs to protect the environment, anyone should be able to sleep with or marry anyone the damn well please various other generally considered liberal things. I don't want to get into each of my various thoughts on things and characterize them. My only point was that Conservatives are not doing a great job at preserving liberties either. Does anyone want to argue that point or should we discuss further the various intricacies of the labels we love so much?