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  1. #21
    Registered User smakemom's Avatar
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    Re: Please, please help me feed this ridiculously picky creature.

    Quote Originally Posted by rlditmars View Post
    Can't say this will work for you but I had one snake that would only eat animals that were warmed to proper temps and then simply left for her. If I presented it, she backed away or did defensive strikes. So one day I just got tired of it and decided to leave it overnight. To my surprise, it was gone. Had to do that for a few months and even then it was occasionally hit or miss. She is now taking live rats regularly. I know you say you can't get live rats but perhaps once it gets eating regularly, you'll find something that works. Good luck.
    This is what I normally do, actually. He is the same- intimidated by tongs and live mice. Live rats are genuinely not an option for me, unfortunately.

  2. #22
    Registered User smakemom's Avatar
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    Re: Please, please help me feed this ridiculously picky creature.

    Quote Originally Posted by GoingPostal View Post
    You need to fix the enclosure and temps first, that's probably 99% of your issue right there. Large open tank with fluctuating temps and humidity that are too low. I second or third putting him in a smaller tub setup with a heat mat, get his surroundings at proper levels, let him adjust and then try live. If he's eaten before there should be no need to force feed or try a million tricks.
    His tank isn't open, there are coverings on the two mesh quadrants that don't have heaters on them. After reading the many replies on this thread, I am planning on re-securing those covers to make it more solid, and making a special cutout cover for the sides with heat. I cannot try live, it is not a viable option for me. I would not be opposed to adding more decor and increasing privacy, but I cannot change his tank.

  3. #23
    BPnet Senior Member ckuhn003's Avatar
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    Re: Please, please help me feed this ridiculously picky creature.

    Sounds like you're heading in the right direction. I agree w/ a lot of the posters here when they recommend to just leave him alone (zero handling) and spread your feeding attempts out. He sounds stressed (maybe more stressed then you are at this point). Also make sure your temps are correct and that he feels secure.

    I started to question a lot of things recently when my BP decided not to eat for several months but he's aggressively eaten the last two attempts (something I have't seen in years). They'll eat when they want to. Good luck!
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  4. #24
    BPnet Royalty Zincubus's Avatar
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    Re: Please, please help me feed this ridiculously picky creature.

    Quote Originally Posted by smakemom View Post
    This is what I normally do, actually. He is the same- intimidated by tongs and live mice. Live rats are genuinely not an option for me, unfortunately.
    That’s where dangling the mouse /rat over the hide entrance may help as you don’t need to use tongs just hold the tail ( your hand is above the hide out of sight/reach .


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  5. #25
    Registered User noodle.obsessed's Avatar
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    Re: Please, please help me feed this ridiculously picky creature.

    If you are worried about heat coming from your hand you could run it under cold water for a while and use tongs to hold the middle of the rodent as this is the orientation they would be in the wild, if he doesn't take it just leave overnight, also I think fixing your temperatures will really help and possibly completely solve the problem.
    The lights may be a little bright, just use light from outside the enclosure for a little and see if he changes his personality.
    Sorry if I missed this but were did you get him from, breeder or a pet store? One month is quite young as most breeders give 6 consecutive feeds and make sure they are over 100 grams, do you know if this was the case?
    (Also sidenote I have my 3 month old that I got 5 days ago in a 120 gallon tank (this is what rspca says is the bare minimum for an adult) it works perfectly fine for her and she just ate today although remember that all snakes have different personalities and needs some will need small dark enclosures at first.)
    You could try covering the front for a few days with a blanket, this really helped calm my baby down on the first day.

    TBH young snakes really shouldn't have long hunger strikes/frequent food refusals, something is either wrong with him, or your husbandry - fix your temps, and if you are having inconsistent humidity cover part of the mesh top, also CLUTTER CLUTTER CLUTTER including some above the snake so he feels less exposed and lots on the ground.
    Hope he eats soon for you!

  6. #26
    Registered User noodle.obsessed's Avatar
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    Re: Please, please help me feed this ridiculously picky creature.

    Also based on the photos (could be angles) he looks pretty ok weight wise a little small yes, many royals are obese in captivity, i found these really helpful images

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  7. #27
    Registered User sp0420's Avatar
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    Re: Please, please help me feed this ridiculously picky creature.

    At 187 grams I'd probably be feeding rat pups if he wont take it try leaving it for him after presenting it. If he still wont take it I would try live rat pups. That has made the difference for me with problem eaters around that size. And eventually I was able to switch them to f/t. I know you say you don't have access to live rats but call around and I'm sure you can find them. I'm currently driving 45 mins one way to get to the only place I could find to get live mouse hoppers for a hatchling that won't eat rat pinks. The lil sob lol. Hope you get him eating and hope this helps.

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  8. #28
    BPnet Senior Member GoingPostal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smakemom View Post
    His tank isn't open, there are coverings on the two mesh quadrants that don't have heaters on them. After reading the many replies on this thread, I am planning on re-securing those covers to make it more solid, and making a special cutout cover for the sides with heat. I cannot try live, it is not a viable option for me. I would not be opposed to adding more decor and increasing privacy, but I cannot change his tank.
    In your pics it looks pretty intimidating to a young ball python, bright lights, open hides that aren't identical, glass tank that's a lot larger than a snake his size would need. It's clearly not working for either of you if he's not eating and you are struggling with temps and humidity that badly. Can you add smaller hides with only one entrance that match each other so he's not picking favored hide over proper temps? I'd also drop the light, stick with CHE or a heat mat so the light isn't an added stressor. If you are toggling it off hour by hour that's going to be bothering him as well as making your temps change hourly. Stability and security is all he's looking for. With a snake that isn't eating, especially a young one live HAS to be an option and long before force feeding should ever be done. I bred feeders for many years because there's no local pet store and have driven several hours to pick up feeders on multiple occasions when a picky snake wouldn't take anything else.

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  10. #29
    Registered User smakemom's Avatar
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    Re: Please, please help me feed this ridiculously picky creature.

    Quote Originally Posted by noodle.obsessed View Post
    If you are worried about heat coming from your hand you could run it under cold water for a while and use tongs to hold the middle of the rodent as this is the orientation they would be in the wild, if he doesn't take it just leave overnight, also I think fixing your temperatures will really help and possibly completely solve the problem.
    The lights may be a little bright, just use light from outside the enclosure for a little and see if he changes his personality.
    Sorry if I missed this but were did you get him from, breeder or a pet store? One month is quite young as most breeders give 6 consecutive feeds and make sure they are over 100 grams, do you know if this was the case?
    (Also sidenote I have my 3 month old that I got 5 days ago in a 120 gallon tank (this is what rspca says is the bare minimum for an adult) it works perfectly fine for her and she just ate today although remember that all snakes have different personalities and needs some will need small dark enclosures at first.)
    You could try covering the front for a few days with a blanket, this really helped calm my baby down on the first day.

    TBH young snakes really shouldn't have long hunger strikes/frequent food refusals, something is either wrong with him, or your husbandry - fix your temps, and if you are having inconsistent humidity cover part of the mesh top, also CLUTTER CLUTTER CLUTTER including some above the snake so he feels less exposed and lots on the ground.
    Hope he eats soon for you!
    I bought him from a breeder, but I have started to realize he is not quite as reliable as I was lead to believe. He does not take the best care of his bps and may overburden himself trying to manage a bp breeding facility and a massive rat barn. I had to treat my bp for a bacteria found in life rats, doubtlessly sourced from my breeder. Big red flag.

    Moving on, I ended up covering all four mesh quadrants with aluminum foil and used aluminum tape to secure the edges and make them as airtight as one can with tape, cutting a hole in two of them to make way for the lamps. I could put some sort of filter on the light, but I don’t see how the brightness is a major issue since it’s off at night? The ceramic heat emitter is regulated by a thermostat controller so it will just work harder at night to avoid a temp drop- and from my observations, the temp doesn’t drop hardly at all at night.

    With these current changes, his temps are now 75-77 on the cool side and 85-89 on the hot. Humidity is up to 55-60 with occasional misting.

    I am planning on getting some black paper today to make the sides opaque and limit light passage. I’ll see if I don’t know where I would get a filter for the light lamp though; it gets hot and would melt plastic eventually.

    Thank you for your advice and help.

  11. #30
    Registered User smakemom's Avatar
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    Re: Please, please help me feed this ridiculously picky creature.

    Quote Originally Posted by GoingPostal View Post
    In your pics it looks pretty intimidating to a young ball python, bright lights, open hides that aren't identical, glass tank that's a lot larger than a snake his size would need. It's clearly not working for either of you if he's not eating and you are struggling with temps and humidity that badly. Can you add smaller hides with only one entrance that match each other so he's not picking favored hide over proper temps? I'd also drop the light, stick with CHE or a heat mat so the light isn't an added stressor. If you are toggling it off hour by hour that's going to be bothering him as well as making your temps change hourly. Stability and security is all he's looking for. With a snake that isn't eating, especially a young one live HAS to be an option and long before force feeding should ever be done. I bred feeders for many years because there's no local pet store and have driven several hours to pick up feeders on multiple occasions when a picky snake wouldn't take anything else.
    He has three hides in his tank, two of which /are/ identical. He makes use of all three. The identical ones are spread to opposite corners, hot side and cool side, with the log just there as an option. I am surprised to see so many people on here take issue with my lamp. My vet strongly recommended a basking lamp, and actually dislikes UTHs a LOT. He’s been around snakes since he was a boy, and is now a very experienced man. My own father is a veterinarian, but he specializes in equine medicine and the practice he owns only sees small mammals and equines. However he has worked with Dr. Brauer, my Smake’s vet, in the past and they both hold each other in high regard. So I trust what he says. He said he’s seen a lot of horror stories about burns from UTHs and has never had issues with lamps. Now this did confuse me since everyone on here seems to say the opposite, saying their snakes got terrible burns from lamps and have never been hurt by a UTH. So I’m confused, but more inclined to side with my vet. My sister’s friend knows another vet so if I can gather the money, I will see about getting a visit in with him.

    The light now stays on for an hour, off for half an hour, on for an hour and so forth. Lmk if this is still a bad thing.

    I apologize if I missed something, I’m typing on mobile which is a pain.

    Finally, I have his old ten gallon tank still. That’s his only other option for a tank. if y’all think he should go back to this tank and retire the big one until he’s bigger, that’s fine. Lmk.

    Thank you.

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