What's With Keeping Snakes In Racks Small Without Hides?

[Deu2e]

To be honest I think everything as far as wild animals should have been left to it's natural environment, because at the end of the day a snake or bird to any animal we took from the wild belong in the wild.

But since we do have them as pets I think what ever works for you and your pet should be your call as long as the pet is taken care of. But we all agree too small spaces is an no go!

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[EDR]

Snakes are not dogs or social. I can tell you from experience that ball pythons don't care about being in a tub. Who thinks ball pythons absolutely need a fish tank and a bunch of fake plants from pet smart. Now don't get me wrong if people keep their bp's in tanks i got no problem with it as long as they are staying healthy. In my opinion that's the way everyone should look at it. Tanks or tubs as long as they are healthy and not in tiny spaces then people just need to respect each other more. I know this thread is a bit of a war but its good TC brought this up cause people should talk about this more in a respectful manner. And for me at the end of the day this tanks vs tubs stuff is really petty. Us reptile owners and or lovers are a minority in America and to make matters worse we fight and argue amongst each other because people don't like how others keep their reptiles.

Can't we all just get along.

[B.P.'s 4me]

It's interesting to me that we tend to compare the care requirements for every species kept in captivity to what we would want for ourselves, or our dog/cat. It's also interesting that there seems to be no grey areas and little tolerance for anybody doing thing differently than we would.
EVERY species, including dogs and cats, are happiest in circumstances that meet their physical, psychological, and instinctive needs. The best owners are those who are willing to let go of some their preconceived ideas of what is best for their pets, STUDY the actual factors that apply to those pets and rather than considering what the pet can do to make THEM happy, think about how THEY can meet the needs of the pet.
Snakes mental needs are pretty basic, they don't require much, if ANY "hands on". Those that do enjoy handling aren't that way because of any innate need for physical contact, but because they've been taught to enjoy that interaction. Those that don't learn this behavior don't suffer any emotional distress. Nor do those who are handled frequently, tolerate it well, than never experience it again, deteriorate, exhibit signs of stress or show evidence of caring one way or another.
The physical demands of ball pythons matter a lot more to the snake and require greater attention and effort from the owner. Researching their natural habitat and their place in the ecology indicates that they NEED food, water, specific heat and specific humidity to survive. Wild b.p., don't do much more than sleep, (usually curled up into a ball) hunt when they're hungry, and reproduce. They live in underground burrows, or in termite hills... ie, dark, confined places. They're nocturnal, so inactive during the day. If wild ball pythons had food and water delivered to their dens/burrows, I suspect they'd never leave it, and would be VERY surprised if they chose to randomly crawl about "just because".
It's o.k. to form an emotional bond to our snakes, most of us have, on some level and to want for them, what we'd want for ourselves.... frankly, I don't think the snakes care one way or another as long as their basic needs are met. Please be careful, about making judgments on what constitutes "humane" behavior. From the snakes perspective, an environment that produces good sheds, a healthy weight, and a bright, alert animal is what matters. More than that is up to each individual owner but there are as many ball pythons that succumb to being "loved to death", as there are that die from negligent or uninformed owners.

[Ball Or Nothing]

interesting read..

[Justin83]

My opinion is snakes in tubs are boring, what's the point? Surely you have the snake because you love the way it looks, you should be displaying that, not cooping them all up in a little geeky man cave!-) I get that people get obsessed, many of you are and don't technically need more than half a dozen species or morphs, a wall of vivs is impressive if that's what you really want tho.
Racks are like having multiple pairs of expensive shoes that you never wear and just show to your other geeky shoe friends on the shoe forum haha...
Just digging at you all, feel free as others said I'm sure the snakes arnt that bothered although I would feel a bit guilty if they couldn't stretch out the their full length at a minimum.
I'm also into larger tropical fish, cichlids and catfish mainly and my tanks are placed throughout my house to enjoy along with my snakes.
In tubs they are less pets and more possessions.

[Zincubus]

Snakes are not dogs or social. I can tell you from experience that ball pythons don't care about being in a tub. Who thinks ball pythons absolutely need a fish tank and a bunch of fake plants from pet smart. Now don't get me wrong if people keep their bp's in tanks i got no problem with it as long as they are staying healthy. In my opinion that's the way everyone should look at it. Tanks or tubs as long as they are healthy and not in tiny spaces then people just need to respect each other more. I know this thread is a bit of a war but its good TC brought this up cause people should talk about this more in a respectful manner. And for me at the end of the day this tanks vs tubs stuff is really petty. Us reptile owners and or lovers are a minority in America and to make matters worse we fight and argue amongst each other because people don't like how others keep their reptiles.

Can't we all just get along.

The only thing I'd say is that all my snakes including the 5 Royals / Ball pythons all live in vivs with branches and fake foliage . The set ups look fab but more interestingly the Royals spend more time climbing than all the others apart from the Rhino Ratsnake and the SD Retic .... surely if they didn't want / need to climb in the evenings they'd just stay in their hides as they do in the daytime ??


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[Zincubus]

My opinion is snakes in tubs are boring, what's the point? Surely you have the snake because you love the way it looks, you should be displaying that, not cooping them all up in a little geeky man cave!-) I get that people get obsessed, many of you are and don't technically need more than half a dozen species or morphs, a wall of vivs is impressive if that's what you really want tho.
Racks are like having multiple pairs of expensive shoes that you never wear and just show to your other geeky shoe friends on the shoe forum haha...
Just digging at you all, feel free as others said I'm sure the snakes arnt that bothered although I would feel a bit guilty if they couldn't stretch out the their full length at a minimum.
I'm also into larger tropical fish, cichlids and catfish mainly and my tanks are placed throughout my house to enjoy along with my snakes.
In tubs they are less pets and more possessions.

Cichlids are amazing ... I used to keep Discus but I've recently changed to keeping Lake Malawis ..


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[Tonald Drump]

I, personally, am going to have to disagree with zina. This might sound like I'm challenging zina, but I'm not. Also, I'm barely experienced, just had Pylox for about a month. I keep him in a tank, but with near-perfect husbandry, and I've never seen him display any sort of behaviour that indicates he's stressed ever since I finished setting up the husbandry.

This is the tank I keep him in, I split the tank in half and just put a UTH under one half for heating. He eats regularly, poops (almost) on schedule, but I don't plan to breed him. So far, this setup is doing completely fine, in fact, Pylox actually prefers being in there than being in the small tub I bought him in. As you can see, I put a branch and a log-shaped "hidebox" in there for him. He rarely ever uses them, but when he does, he can stay on there for up to half an hour. So, in a way, this is kinda agreeing with zina, but my point is it's okay to provide enrichment and space for ball pythons, just don't expect them to use it every day. Ball pythons are one of the snakes that have lots of personality, some snakes might use the enrichment you give them daily, some might not even use it. But in my opinion, I'd say it's better to provide enrichment so your snake can use it when he/she wants to, than to not provide anything at all and not have anything in the enclosure for when your snake wants to roam.

P. S. Sorry for the long read, just wanted to get my point across.

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[Quahog]

This may or may not add to the theme of the thread, though just an interesting observation. I've only had my beep for 3 months, so I'm far from an expert. A close friend of mine got a banana ball python from a PetCo last year and has some good knowledge on reptiles. I fell in love with his beep and a couple months later, I got my beep, Coco, from a reputable breeder.

The husbandry for my snake is different than his and this is where things get interesting, and would probably make some people here antsy. He uses an unregulated heat source with a heat lamp on the hot side of his snake's hide. He uses the dreaded stick on hygrometers and thermometers. His snake only has one hide on the hot side, a branch to climb, aspen bedding, and is kept in a big glass viv. She's misted daily, likes to soak in her water dish (she may be hot, but who knows) and is kept in a bright, high traffic room, with a dog and cat running around. Though his beep is thriving. She sheds like clockwork, always eats, poops, has a sweet temperament, is growing, and content. He wouldn't be happy if I wagged my finger at him, especially since I'm a newbie with reptiles. I say this in the nicest way, he knows it all, and he wouldn't listen to someone like a Vin Russo or Justin K. about keeping boas or ball pythons.

Though Coco, my beep, eats like a champ, sheds, poops, sleeps, hides, drinks her water and likes being handled, and is kept in a basic tub. She's next to me in my in-home studio, which is like a giant cave to begin with, and is near the hum and soft light of my computers. She was a hatchling when I got her and I started her with a tub based on all the research I had done here talking to breeders, and other online resources. This was a good starter set up for my situation. My friend may say "She's going to be small because she's in a small tub. Why aren't you using a heat lamp, a thermostat is not necessary". I have no idea how big she'll get. Sure a 5'+ white snake with blue eyes would be awesome, but I want a sweet, healthy girl more.

Most of my money went to a good thermostat, heat pad, gauges, hides, a scale and the morph I wanted. I do have a big ol' glass Vivarium that my above friend sweetly sold to me for a ridiculously low price that I will try in a few months. If it sucks for Coco, I'll get an AP enclosure .

Interesting to me that two snakes of the same species kept in two very different ways are thriving.

[dylan815]

Now before I get started let me just say I don't have anything against keeping snakes in racks or tubs. They can be great enclosures and they hold humidity better than the traditional tank with a mesh lid. Nor Is this intended as an attack on another forum member. I just happen to disagree with this method of keeping reptiles.

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Now, as I stated before I don't have anything against racks but keeping your reptiles seems downright cruel to me. They don't even have enough space to stretch out. Which is how I go about picking enclosures. If they eat, sleep, breed and poop I guess they're fine but that doesn't seem like any way to live. I consider the minimum a water bowl of some sort, a hide, and a enclosure large enough for the snake to fully stretch out in. As far as I'm concerned if those are met and humidity and temperatures are correct than it doesn't matter what enclosures you keep them in.

so how would someone ever provide proper caging for something like a retic or a burm??? where you going to put a cage thats say 16 feet by 8 feet???