Rank novice needs advice before making mistakes!

[JRLongton]

I've been thinking about getting a BP for years and in recent months those thoughts have coalesced into a firm intention. I have a great deal of respect for what I plan to embark on and want to do it right. A twenty plus year commitment is not to be entered lightly. The internet contains vast information, some contradictory, so I wanted to make myself and my intentions known and get some advice.

Brief background; I had a BCI when I was 13 (terrible experience), and am now 38, have a house, a steady comfortable income, and have cats. Their safety is paramount. Finally, I live in South Eastern Massachusetts, so you have a sense of my climate.

I want to get a baby ball python, as young as possible. I am thinking about a 24" x 18" x 12" glass terrarium with side doors (the kind of thing you buy at Petsmart). Heating would be regulated by an as of yet obtained proportional thermostat (thinking a Herpstat) and provided by a heating pad, and a .... Well here we go.

I've looked at ceramic heating elements and incandescent bulbs. I don't want to do incandescent because I would hate to have a bright light shining on me all the time. If I shut it off at night that would cause problems with heating and it isn't natural to have a glaring light on 24/7. Ceramic might be better, but I understand that they are inefficient. That brings me to heating panels.

My research indicates that heating panels are generally used in plastic terrariums such as those from Reptile Basics or Boaphile. I haven't seen anyone using heating panels in a glass terrarium and suspect that there might be a reason for that, a good reason of which I am ignorant.

I'm sure that I'll eventually need a larger terrarium anyway, so maybe I should just start off with that, outfit it with a dim LED (on a timer), UTH and heat panel. But I've heard that baby pythons feel "stressed" if they have too much room, which is why I'm opting for the 24x18x12. Logic would suggest that more space is always better, but logic and common sense don't always hold with reptiles.

Finally, I plan to keep the python in my semi-finished basement. Don't get the wrong idea! This isn't some dank pit filled with oily rags and such. It's a clean and finished space with walls and a door that I can close to keep the cats out. I spend a lot of time down there watching TV, listening to music, and generally escaping from the family. It's humid (about 50% with a dehumidifier running), which is to the better, but in the winter it is cool, about 55 degrees or so (it has limited heating). With a thermostat and sufficient heating it shouldn't matter what the temperature outside the terrarium is, but does it? I'll also be using a battery back up to keep the terrarium heated in the event of a power outage.

So there you have it. I think you get the idea that I'm a novice who's willing to learn and commit the resources necessary to do this the right way. I won't be getting the python until I have a complete set up am ready to go.

Thank you for reading all this and for any advice or insight you can offer.

[BBotteron]

If it's an option a pvc cage would be your way to go or you can read through this recent thread and get a small idea how to set up both which you would like better:

Design My Tank

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?sha...2&share_type=t


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tttaylorrr]

I've been thinking about getting a BP for years and in recent months those thoughts have coalesced into a firm intention. I have a great deal of respect for what I plan to embark on and want to do it right. A twenty plus year commitment is not to be entered lightly. The internet contains vast information, some contradictory, so I wanted to make myself and my intentions known and get some advice.

welcome to the forum!!! and good on you for asking questions and doing your research before bringing your little noodle home; this is something we see here sparingly unfortunately. very commendable of you.

My research indicates that heating panels are generally used in plastic terrariums such as those from Reptile Basics or Boaphile. I haven't seen anyone using heating panels in a glass terrarium and suspect that there might be a reason for that, a good reason of which I am ignorant.

glass doesn't do a good job of keeping heat in, so you'd be wasting a lot of energy trying to keep it at a steady temp.

I'm sure that I'll eventually need a larger terrarium anyway, so maybe I should just start off with that, outfit it with a dim LED (on a timer), UTH and heat panel. But I've heard that baby pythons feel "stressed" if they have too much room, which is why I'm opting for the 24x18x12. Logic would suggest that more space is always better, but logic and common sense don't always hold with reptiles.

honestly, to save you money and the headaches, i'd use a plastic tub: the kind you find for storage at home improvement stores. here's a great link for setting up a tub for hatchling. super cheap, easily manageable, keeps temps and humidity very well, and you can get bigger ones as they grow. you use a UTH like with any other enclosure, just drill holes around it, place hides/bedding/water/etc. and you're good to go...actually i'm sure there's more to it so maybe someone with more experience in plastic tubs can chime in. you can upgrade to a bigger enclosure when you and the snake are ready *cough AP Cages T8 cough*

With a thermostat and sufficient heating it shouldn't matter what the temperature outside the terrarium is, but does it? I'll also be using a battery back up to keep the terrarium heated in the event of a power outage.

you are correct!

So there you have it. I think you get the idea that I'm a novice who's willing to learn and commit the resources necessary to do this the right way. I won't be getting the python until I have a complete set up am ready to go.

again, props to you for recognizing their needs and making sure they're met before the noodle arrives. i hope my info helps you out in some way!

[zina10]

Save yourself some headaches and just start out with a actual snake enclosure (PVC cage). The prices aren't that bad and you will get so much more enjoyment out of the whole experience.

Glass is terrible for many reasons, but especially in a cold room such as that. It also doesn't afford the need for privacy that is so vital for a Ball Python.

If you get a PVC cage with glass or Plexi doors, you still see plenty of your snake, but it will be much easier to keep the heat and humidity contained and the solid sides and top will make your Ball Python feel much more secure.

In such a cold room you will most likely need a Under Tank Heater as well as a Radiant Heat Panel. Using lights as a heat source will result in a non-stop battle of low humidity. You can have the company (or DIY) add LED lights that you can use to "view" the snake, they won't mess with the humidity and won't add heat.

I know the start up cost would be higher. But you could have that snake for many, MANY years and if you start up right, everything will be so much easier and enjoyable.

Of course, we are just giving suggestions. The choice is ultimately yours, and you will still receive help, no matter what you go with in the end.

There is a great write-up in the stickys on how to make a glass tank work. You will definitely need extra heat, in addition of the Under Tank Heat. The extra heat will need to run at night as well, so it can't be the "light" source. You will need a ceramic heat emitter and if you want light, you will need to add that separately. All that will simply kill your humidity. So you would probably need a substrate that helps to hold humidity and mist often. Which usually ends up leaving hard water stains on the glass

[CALM Pythons]

I've been thinking about getting a BP for years and in recent months those thoughts have coalesced into a firm intention. I have a great deal of respect for what I plan to embark on and want to do it right. A twenty plus year commitment is not to be entered lightly. The internet contains vast information, some contradictory, so I wanted to make myself and my intentions known and get some advice.

Brief background; I had a BCI when I was 13 (terrible experience), and am now 38, have a house, a steady comfortable income, and have cats. Their safety is paramount. Finally, I live in South Eastern Massachusetts, so you have a sense of my climate.

I want to get a baby ball python, as young as possible. I am thinking about a 24" x 18" x 12" glass terrarium with side doors (the kind of thing you buy at Petsmart). Heating would be regulated by an as of yet obtained proportional thermostat (thinking a Herpstat) and provided by a heating pad, and a .... Well here we go.

I've looked at ceramic heating elements and incandescent bulbs. I don't want to do incandescent because I would hate to have a bright light shining on me all the time. If I shut it off at night that would cause problems with heating and it isn't natural to have a glaring light on 24/7. Ceramic might be better, but I understand that they are inefficient. That brings me to heating panels.

My research indicates that heating panels are generally used in plastic terrariums such as those from Reptile Basics or Boaphile. I haven't seen anyone using heating panels in a glass terrarium and suspect that there might be a reason for that, a good reason of which I am ignorant.

I'm sure that I'll eventually need a larger terrarium anyway, so maybe I should just start off with that, outfit it with a dim LED (on a timer), UTH and heat panel. But I've heard that baby pythons feel "stressed" if they have too much room, which is why I'm opting for the 24x18x12. Logic would suggest that more space is always better, but logic and common sense don't always hold with reptiles.

Finally, I plan to keep the python in my semi-finished basement. Don't get the wrong idea! This isn't some dank pit filled with oily rags and such. It's a clean and finished space with walls and a door that I can close to keep the cats out. I spend a lot of time down there watching TV, listening to music, and generally escaping from the family. It's humid (about 50% with a dehumidifier running), which is to the better, but in the winter it is cool, about 55 degrees or so (it has limited heating). With a thermostat and sufficient heating it shouldn't matter what the temperature outside the terrarium is, but does it? I'll also be using a battery back up to keep the terrarium heated in the event of a power outage.

So there you have it. I think you get the idea that I'm a novice who's willing to learn and commit the resources necessary to do this the right way. I won't be getting the python until I have a complete set up am ready to go.

Thank you for reading all this and for any advice or insight you can offer.

Welcome to the forum! You sound like the perfect person to give a snake a home. Everytime someone does research and touches bases before running into the house with a Snake to Open a Forum account and say "hi im new and just bought a Ball Python what do i do" gives me hope hahahaha.
Im in upstate NY so we share the same weather.
As far as enclosures im against the Petsmart terraniums. That doesnt mean they cant be used. I do and have had 48"x13x13 Aquariums ive used for 20+ years and they will work once you have a basic understanding of how to manipulate them..are they harder to maintain heat and Humidity and run Probe wires into? Yes but it can be done. I also use a RHP by Pro Panel on one of mine. (Do not use Reptile Basics RHP on top of any lid, i do not use that brand period. There have been several reported problems of warping, overheating and even melting/fire. Some people use them, i wouldn't.)
It is the 88 watt 12"x24" P12 model and it is on top of the screened lid on one side "Hot Basking Side" and the other 1/2 of the screened lid is covered by a 11"x24" peice of Duraplex plexyglass to hold Humidity and heat (cool side). The screen does not heat up at all using it this way and it does work very well. I also have a smaller Quarentine tank I use a CHE for the cool side ambient 78-80 and the rest of the screen is covered by Tin Foil for humidity/heat. The Hot Basking is a UTH on the opposite side controlled by a dimmer.

With all this said, I would never recommend doing it like this or buying a glass enclosure.. It is much cheaper and easier to buy a AP (Animal Plastics) T8 or T10 ($150 - $199) that will do everything that you want without cob jobbing a Glass tank.
If you are worried about the size for a hatchling they sell a Divider for $20 & that way it would be a 24" enclosure until you opened it up... But I would use the entire setup myself.
I have never had a problem with a Ball Python in a large enclosure as long as i provided the correct Hides ect.... People buy fancy Hides that look like Trees and Rocks when all a Ball Python wants is a tight, dark spot that has a small doorway so he:she canot be seen. The best kind are PVC for sterile easy cleaning. They are cheap and work great. ($5) for a medium and thats perfect for under a year old.
For heating you would go with a P-3 Pro Panel if you choose a T8 or T10. (48"x24"x12" or 48"x24"x15H"). You put that on your Hot side which in return makes the opposite side of the enclosure your Cool side. Provide 2 or 3 hides (identical) so that they can be Hot, warm or cool. This is why i also like a bigger enclosure. As long as good hides are provided they love to explore a larger enclosure with things to climb on once they are comfortable. Ive never had smaller than 48" in my 29 years of owning Balls & Burms unless its a quarantine tank.
I also like climbing decorations. Balls love to climb. I use PVC 1/2" plumbing pipe, T's , elbows and Caps. (Always cap the ends).
For thermometers i use Accurite with the Indoor/outdoor temp & Humidity Probe. You can order them from Lowes online with free shipping for $20 or Amazon but under $50 you pay shipping. I'll post links to what I use and then follow the stickys for PVC setup or Glass Setup.
PS- never use Tape as a adhesive inside a enclosure. Use Silicone.

1) AP enclosures: http://www.apcages.com/home/

2) Herpstat thermistats: Tstat: http://www.spyderrobotics.com/index....products_id=24

3) Pro Panel Rhp: http://pro-products.com/pro-heat/

4) Reptile Basics: http://www.reptilebasics.com/hide-boxes

5) Acurite thermometer: https://m.lowes.com/pd/AcuRite-Digit...meter/50425266


PVC pipe climbs


Pro Panel ontop of my quarantine enclosure.


Just Hangin around:

[zina10]

Chris, do you think an Radiant Heat panel would be enough in a room that cold ?

I'm wondering, I've never had that problem, though. I like it warm My house is never below 72 if I can help it, more like 74 at night and up to 77/78 in the day time...

[JRLongton]

This is fantastic information!

Well, the glass terrarium is out. I was really only interested in that because they had smaller sizes and, like I said, I heard that baby pythons are "stressed" in larger enclosures.

So it looks like the the animal plastics is the way to go. A T8 at 12" tall seems a bit low for climbing, maybe a T10 is better. I'd even go to a T11, but would that be too hard to heat, do you think?

I'm not rich, but I don't see cost as a serious obstacle in this endeavor. The important thing to me, is to treat the animal with respect, and provide the best possible living conditions.

Thank you very much for all the suggestions! This forum is going to be invaluable! I'm glad I joined.

[CALM Pythons]

This is fantastic information!

Well, the glass terrarium is out. I was really only interested in that because they had smaller sizes and, like I said, I heard that baby pythons are "stressed" in larger enclosures.

So it looks like the the animal plastics is the way to go. A T8 at 12" tall seems a bit low for climbing, maybe a T10 is better. I'd even go to a T11, but would that be too hard to heat, do you think?

I'm not rich, but I don't see cost as a serious obstacle in this endeavor. The important thing to me, is to treat the animal with respect, and provide the best possible living conditions.

Thank you very much for all the suggestions! This forum is going to be invaluable! I'm glad I joined.

There is a big price jump over the T10.. I have (2) T12's on order now. I have $40 LED lights being installed and with Shipping & LED'S they are $427.
You don't have to go higher than a T10 for them to climb on pvc. They like being off the ground period. So mount it at a angle, start it at 2" off the ground and go to the ceiling (13" inside Hight) of the Cool side (that way no heat panel there). As you see in my pic mine also goes to the back wall of enclosure ...thats at about 1/2 way across so its a bit higher than the low side.
Id say save money if you need to and go with the T10, if you want to spend money on a enclosure for a lifetime, grab the T12. Your call. But twice the money is a lot and he will be just as happy in T10.
If you did go up to a T12 you need the Pro Panel P12 instead of the P3. Make sure you order the correct panel for the size so decide what your getting before ordering. Also Zina mentioned the temp in your house. Thats what RHP are for, cooler rooms ect...they work better than someone that heats there rooms to 75+. So RHP is the best route for us Colder weather climates.

[CALM Pythons]

Chris, do you think an Radiant Heat panel would be enough in a room that cold ?

I'm wondering, I've never had that problem, though. I like it warm My house is never below 72 if I can help it, more like 74 at night and up to 77/78 in the day time...

In fact they work better for us in cooler climates.. All winter my home goes down to 60 after 10:00pm and kicks up to 70 at 5:45am.
You would freeze ur buns off Lucy

[JodanOrNoDan]

You guys are killing me with the temps. My bones start hurting just listening. 72 is darn near arctic temps. I like it at 84 like my snakes.

OP, absolutely great that you are doing your homework. I know nothing about dealing with temps this low. I'm glad everyone in the know is giving you good advice.