Putting food for rat in snake enclosure to distract them?

[JodanOrNoDan]

Is it a bad idea? No. Is it a good idea, that's a matter of opinion, I see it as a unnecessary idea.

The bashing of teeth comment, doesn't deserve a response. You seem awfully angry for someone agreeing with slim saying it's ok to let the snake do what it's built to do without extra steps such as feeding the rodent. I don't see why people are getting so worked up over he subject outside of the bashing of teeth idea.

string goal = "Chill out rat"; \\(the only thing I know of that is going to chill the rat out more is to kill it)
bool foodChillsOutRat = true;
bool goodIdea = goal == "Chill out rat" && foodChillsOutRat;

In english
So if you want the rat to chill out this method works. If you do not concern yourself about the rat being chilled out don't bother.

Zoe may actually be annoyed with the ridiculous argument. If you want to try it, it seems to work. If you don't, no one is saying anyone has to. Anything that sounds like it makes things easier I like. I like paper towels. They make my life easy. Other people like natural substrate. It does not make them wrong. Their priorities are different than mine. I would argue with someone that said paper towels don't work but I would not argue with someone that said natural substrate is better because it could be better for them.

I obviously have too much time on my hands today.

[djstarfall]

I think this idea to distract the rat is quite good. As to the odds of something going wrong with live feeding they are just odds and you will quickly find that the odds don't matter when it happens to you. I don't like feeding live. Nothing wrong with it, I just don't like dealing with carting live rats around in my car. That said, I purchased a couple adult girls last year that had never had anything but live. They would not succumb to my best rat dance and I wanted to breed them so I gave in and fed them live. First two feedings no problem. Nature did what nature does. The third feeding, I put the rat in and it immediately walked over and bit the crap out of my girl. I instantly killed the rat. Both those girls are now on frozen/thawed. My point is even with me right there, that is 1/6 odds. So, if I ever need to feed live again I am doing the kibble thing.

hi Jordan, how do you actually "instantly kill the rat" because (im not being sarcastic) sometimes i also feed live, but if sh*t happens, how do i kill it quick without it running all over the place with a pissed off snake in defensive mode? Honest question

[Zoe]

string goal = "Chill out rat"; \\(the only thing I know of that is going to chill the rat out more is to kill it)
bool foodChillsOutRat = true;
bool goodIdea = goal == "Chill out rat" && foodChillsOutRat;

Hah, not gonna lie that was kinda hot.

And ya, that's what bugs me. If we want to discuss the merits of doing so vs not doing so, that's fine. State our preferences, that's fine. But to act like this is something you have to pick a side on, or to try to make people feel silly for doing? There is literally no downside, and an unknown but possible upside, how could anyone possibly be anything less than neutral about someone else doing this??

This kinda reminds me of something I did ages ago - although I used them successfully in the past, I had heard of people losing snakes to mite treatments (pesticide-based) and decided to try using predatory mites to treat my snakes. It worked great, it didn't cost much more than a conventional treatment, and my snakes were not directly exposed to pesticides, which I felt carried a small but unknown potential risk. I posted about it on a forum, sharing my experience, and people actually got kinda mad and confused and to this day I don't understand it.

[JodanOrNoDan]

hi Jordan, how do you actually "instantly kill the rat" because (im not being sarcastic) sometimes i also feed live, but if sh*t happens, how do i kill it quick without it running all over the place with a pissed off snake in defensive mode? Honest question

It's one of those things you would have to see to believe. It involved no conscious thought. I just reacted. Picture this. This particular tub had not been put in a rack yet. I use Hefty tubs which have very good lids. I have the tub on the floor with the lid half open. Drop medium rat in. Rat walks over like she is going to sniff my beautiful albino girl and chomps her right in the side. I already have the lid in one hand. Free hand shoots in and grabs the rat by the tail at the same time pulling it backwards out of the tub. At the same time I am pulling the rat out of the tub my other hand is moving the lid down. About the time that the lid is almost shut the rats head is in the tub and his body is not. Hit the top of the lid at the same time jerking rearward on the rat's tail and you end up with a rat with a broken neck. This all happened in under a second.

I don't think I would recommend this as a technique. It is just what happened. I don't even know if it is repeatable.

[Slim]

Why? Do you laugh at kids who wear bike helmets even if they are on the sidewalk with training wheels? If it reduces a small risk to an even smaller one and there is no harm in doing it, what's the problem?

No I do not, however, kids wearing helmets is not the same as feeding snakes. Nope, never gonna be. In addition, please point out where I ever said the kibble thing was a BAD idea? Please point to the line where I said it was a problem.

999 times out of 1000 sounds minuscule but when you think of how many snakes we collectively have and how many of those are fed on a daily basis, that amounts to a lot of bitten snakes.

Where do you people buy your rats? At the Caffeine, Adrenaline, Rat Farm? Are your rats that freaked out? Sheesh, I'm glad I buy mine at the 420 Rat Ranch. Pretty chill bunch over there as a general rule.

I just really don't understand why anyone would feel the need to take a side on this.

Where did I take a side?

It is a good idea because it is not a bad idea.

Sounds like a lost Prince lyric...

Seems that I was doin, somethin close to nothin, but different than the day before...

But to act like this is something you have to pick a side on

Were not sizing up teams for dodge ball here...R E L A X

[JodanOrNoDan]

Where do you people buy your rats? At the Caffeine, Adrenaline, Rat Farm? Are your rats that freaked out? Sheesh, I'm glad I buy mine at the 420 Rat Ranch. Pretty chill bunch over there as a general rule.

Rofl

I am pretty sure the one that bit my snake was on flakka.

[Zoe]

No I do not, however, kids wearing helmets is not the same as feeding snakes. Nope, never gonna be.

Of course it's not the same, it's a comparison, it's not supposed to be the same. Point being, we do things to mitigate risk all the time. Sometimes those things significantly reduce significant risk (say, a doctor washing his hands before assisting a birth or doing surgery - something which was, incidentally, formerly ridiculed). Sometimes the risk is very minor (like putting a bike helmet on your kid who is just riding around the driveway and sidewalk on training wheels under your supervision and is highly unlikely to suffer a head injury even without a helmet).

In addition, please point out where I ever said the kibble thing was a BAD idea? Please point to the line where I said it was a problem.

I didn't say you did, or at least I didn't intend to. I meant that because it's a potentially good idea (by virtue, partially, of not being a bad idea), it's shouldn't be ridiculed.

Where do you people buy your rats? At the Caffeine, Adrenaline, Rat Farm? Are your rats that freaked out? Sheesh, I'm glad I buy mine at the 420 Rat Ranch. Pretty chill bunch over there as a general rule.

Darling, I was using your estimated chance of a problem (0.1%) to illustrate that even though it's a small risk, it does happens. And if you're the person whose snake got bitten, statistics are of little comfort.

Where did I take a side?

That wasn't directed at you, apologies for the confusion. In fact I have no qualms with your original point that it is, in the grand scheme of things, a statistically unnecessary precaution, I just didn't like the derision that accompanied it, nor the implication that it if someone does do this, it's because they don't know a snake can kill a rat on its own. It was insulting and unnecessary.

Sounds like a lost Prince lyric...

I was never a Prince fan but I shall take it as a compliment!

Were not sizing up teams for dodge ball here...R E L A X

Don't do that. I'm allowed to not like what you said, and say so, without being motivated by hysteria.

[Slim]

Of course it's not the same, it's a comparison, it's not supposed to be the same. Point being, we do things to mitigate risk all the time.

My point being that we use comparison far to often and regularly out of phase. No matter how many times we do it, an apple will never be an orange, even if they are both fruit, and delicious, and good for you, and both grow on trees, and can be purchased at the grocery store, and are generally round, and can be made into to tasty juice. Still gonna be apples and oranges



I didn't say you did, or at least I didn't intend to. I meant that because it's a potentially good idea (by virtue, partially, of not being a bad idea), it's shouldn't be ridiculed.

If you take my amazement or amusement as a form of ridicule, then that's a label you applied yourself. I intended neither in my OP.



Darling, I was using your estimated chance of a problem (0.1%) to illustrate that even though it's a small risk, it does happens. And if you're the person whose snake got bitten, statistics are of little comfort.

Next time I'll issue a warning. My point was hyberbolistic on purpose...



I just didn't like the derision that accompanied it, nor the implication that it if someone does do this, it's because they don't know a snake can kill a rat on its own. It was insulting and unnecessary.

Again, labels you have placed on the shipping container. Insulting? Mildly at most. Unnecessary? Debatable, as most things are...




I was never a Prince fan but I shall take it as a compliment!

You don't know what you're missing. Highly recommended!



Don't do that. I'm allowed to not like what you said, and say so, without being motivated by hysteria.

And don't throw hysteria at me. We both know the origin of the word. Please feel free to not like anything I say, but I urge you to not like what I say, not what you think I mean. You'll find I use little in the way of hidden meaning. Not many lights under bushel baskets where my opinion is concerned.

[JodanOrNoDan]

Slim and Zoe,

Thank you both for providing the entertaining banter on a really dull day. I really mean that. Slim, Zoe seems to be a smart girl, her conclusions are sound. I understand your points and your sense of humor, there is the smell of military all over it. I did my time so I understand the attitude. I don't think Zoe realizes what you are about.

Zoe, the way Slim is talking is natural for his background. It is not personal.

Now I will shut up and mind my own business.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

My experience I feed over 200 live prey each month just to my breeders (that's well over 20000 live feeders during the last decade, during hatching season add 300 to 400 more a month), in those years I never used a piece of dog food in the enclosure and also have never had a single issue. I breed my own rats know they are well fed and well hydrated and it has been my experience that if not snatched out before hitting the enclosure's floor the rats will simply go in a corner where they will usually fall asleep.

As for the killer rats out there it's greatly exaggerated by pro F/T feeders people with an agenda and ZERO experience that continue to propagate the myth of the killer rat rather than educate people on how to properly feed live. The pictures and the tales all have a back story that does not represent live responsible feeding

As for the question if that makes the OP feel better why not there is no harm in doing so but for a feeder that should remain in the enclosure no longer than 10 min I find it unnecessary.

Just my and some change