Putting food for rat in snake enclosure to distract them?

[Slim]

Perhaps I should have been more specific when I used the term Human Intervention. Didn't realize the tone of my post was so obtuse...

Umm, actually therd have been plently of times rodents have injured or even killed snakes, so yeah human intervention can alot of times decide the end result of a feeding! Nothing wrong with making sure everything goes as smooth as possible!

Thank you for this BFO (Blinding Flash of the Obvious). I never said don't supervise. I never said create a scenario from Lord of The Flys during feeding time. I'm a huge fan of everything going as smoothly as possible. My point is, 999 times out of 1000, your snake will do just fine in it's valiant struggle to subdue a rat.

They're also uniquely designed to hatch eggs on their own, and yet we most commonly tuck them away in an incubator. Amazing...

At the risk of being really snarky, and running the risk of committing a BFO, Hatching eggs and feeding snakes are not the same thing... Yep, not the same thing at all.

You're doing great work as a Mod, Eric. It ain't easy being Green! I appreciate what you do around here.

What about snake mites on snakes. Without human intervention, our pets wouldn't be able to completely remove the mites on their own. Have you tried pulling off a tick from a dog? It's not an easy task whilst ensuring you do not burst the tick in the process which might possibly spread the eggs all over their fur.

Heck, having a pet snake in itself is human intervention!

Ok, for those of you in the back of the room who are having a hard time hearing. Treating mites and feeding snakes are not the same thing... Nope, not the same thing at all.

[Zoe]

I'm constantly amazed and a little amused by the number of people who think their BPs, who are uniquely designed for dispatching rodents, need human intervention to dispatch rodents...

Why? Do you laugh at kids who wear bike helmets even if they are on the sidewalk with training wheels? If it reduces a small risk to an even smaller one and there is no harm in doing it, what's the problem? I had a snake who got bit in the head by a live mouse because he didn't quite get his latch/wrap right immediately. In the short second it took him to adjust his grip, he got bitten in the head. I was supervising, but my reaction time is not nearly fast enough for that. He healed fine but it could have been his eye.

In the wild, hunting is dangerous for even apex predators, and in a bin/tank situation, a rat is on a high alert from being moved and dropped into a bin that smells like predator, who has had less time and space to stalk and prepare.

999 times out of 1000 sounds minuscule but when you think of how many snakes we collectively have and how many of those are fed on a daily basis, that amounts to a lot of bitten snakes.

[JodanOrNoDan]

I think this idea to distract the rat is quite good. As to the odds of something going wrong with live feeding they are just odds and you will quickly find that the odds don't matter when it happens to you. I don't like feeding live. Nothing wrong with it, I just don't like dealing with carting live rats around in my car. That said, I purchased a couple adult girls last year that had never had anything but live. They would not succumb to my best rat dance and I wanted to breed them so I gave in and fed them live. First two feedings no problem. Nature did what nature does. The third feeding, I put the rat in and it immediately walked over and bit the crap out of my girl. I instantly killed the rat. Both those girls are now on frozen/thawed. My point is even with me right there, that is 1/6 odds. So, if I ever need to feed live again I am doing the kibble thing.

[Zoe]

Both those girls are now on frozen/thawed. My point is even with me right there, that is 1/6 odds. So, if I ever need to feed live again I am doing the kibble thing.

Glad to hear you got them onto f/t! I eventually was able to with mine as well. Another thing I didn't mention earlier but now that I think about - anything I've ever fed live was a poor feeder and fed live as a last resort. When my snake was bitten he did kill and eat the mouse but wouldn't eat again for a few attempts at that. Of course long term he was fine but it can be worrisome when you're already having feeding issues. Plus, it's probably nicer for the rat, too. I'd rather die eating a hamburger than thinking "oh crap I just know there's a hungry lion around here somewhere."

Like it is a small risk (and more along the lines of a small bite injury to the snake rather than death) and I get not doing it but I don't get being all condescending about it. There is literally no downside, and several upsides, for the cost of one piece of kibble. No reason to make someone feel silly for wanting to do that.

[Rob]

Even F/T doesn't guarantee no bite will happen. Had one hit low on the strike, when she wrapped up it drove the dead rodents teeth into her. Things can always go wrong.

I'm with slim tho. Feeding a snake a calm rodent shouldn't be an issue, it's what they do. Feeding live is always a higher risk, personally don't see he benefit of of distracting the rodent. They aren't very smart and if not stressed out will walk right up to the snake and not know what hit them.


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[Zoe]

I'm with slim tho. Feeding a snake a calm rodent shouldn't be an issue, it's what they do.

I just really don't understand why anyone would feel the need to take a side on this. No one is saying everyone has to do it - the question was whether it's a good idea. It is a good idea because it is not a bad idea. Keeps the rodent calmer than it may have been otherwise, which - as you concede above - reduces the risk of an issue. From what to what? No one knows until someone does a study, but in the meantime, risk mitigation should be lauded, not laughed at.

And anyway, statistics don't matter to the individual. I have literally had this unlikely thing happen to me and I didn't think "oh gee I'm the one in a thousand today, there are 999 other people to whom this didn't happen." I thought "oh no poor snake but thank god wasn't your eyeball."

Can't it just an optional thing that some people choose not to do without deriding those who do?

F/t risk is irrelevant and tbh if you want to start pulling the teeth from your f/t rodents, go for it.

[JodanOrNoDan]

It is a good idea because it is not a bad idea.

I love your thinking. If you are not already an engineer you should become one.

[Zoe]

I love your thinking. If you are not already an engineer you should become one.

You flatter me, sir!

[Rob]

It is a good idea because it is not a bad idea.

F/t risk is irrelevant and tbh if you want to start pulling the teeth from your f/t rodents, go for it.

Is it a bad idea? No. Is it a good idea, that's a matter of opinion, I see it as a unnecessary idea.

The bashing of teeth comment, doesn't deserve a response. You seem awfully angry for someone agreeing with slim saying it's ok to let the snake do what it's built to do without extra steps such as feeding the rodent. I don't see why people are getting so worked up over he subject outside of the bashing of teeth idea.

[Zoe]

Is it a bad idea? No. Is it a good idea, that's a matter of opinion, I see it as a unnecessary idea.

The bashing of teeth comment, doesn't deserve a response. You seem awfully angry for someone agreeing with slim saying it's ok to let the snake do what it's built to do without extra steps such as feeding the rodent. I don't see why people are getting so worked up over he subject outside of the bashing of teeth idea.

I can understand it seeming unnecessary to many people, however I am not sure any of us is qualified to truly make that call on a general basis without some evidence that, no, adding a piece of kibble does NOT contribute to calming/distracting the rodent and/or reducing the risk of a bite. Until you can tell me it doesn't, I think it's reasonable to posit that it does, and thus it seems like a reasonable, easy, consequence-free precaution someone might wish to take and in which I can find no fault.

Re teeth: I didn't mean it angrily at all. I truly meant that if that happened to you with an f/t rat, I would understand that if in the future you felt like you wanted to remove that risk (on an f/t rat - not a live one) and I wouldn't laugh at you for it because at the end of the day, you're doing something you feel reduces the risk of injury to your snake without harming, offending or inconveniencing anyone or anything else in the process.