ALL Ball Python breeders, STOP posting photos with no info about what you posted

[Slip]

**throws rattle out of his pram**

Right! That's it!!

If he's getting a pony I demand a banana!

[KMG]

**throws rattle out of his pram**

Right! That's it!!

If he's getting a pony I demand a banana!

Wish Granted!!!!!

[dr del]

**happy sniffle**

I am positively swimming in 'nanas.

[Ransack]

(Teaser pics) Point 1: Stop your crying. They don't have to tell you anything and in most cases wont. Breeders spend years proving out something and they shouldn't have to tell you how they got there. Don't like it? Tuff

(For Sale) I have yet to see this problem and almost every snake I see for sale tell you what it is. So I see no problem here.

I got to ask, how long have you been breeding? Or do you breed? What kind of money do you have tied up in your snakes? How many YEARS have you been working on a project? And you think you should have to tell everyone how you got to that said pattern and color? Maybe you should stick to dogs and cats

On Point 1: I really don't have the time anymore to go over this, the point I made is not being paid attention. I am not crying. I have been talking the entire time about proper marketing and public relations for a breeder that is selling snakes as a main source of income. The "teaser" pick makes no sense and your argument makes no sense.

If the breeder proved out a new unknown gene they literally control the market, they are setting supply and demand with the progress of the project. That really hardly ever comes up. Also on that same point, what fool spends hundreds of thousands of dollars on a project and then keeps it a secret? Does that even happen? What's the plan for making the investment in time and money back?

On your question of how long I've been breeding and what I have invested. I have been keeping snakes for about 25 years. I used to keep mainly morelia (75% Diamond/Carpet crosses from Pete Kuhn and Jungles from the Barkers) and the old liasis complex (Water, D'Alberts, Olive, Ringed Pythons etc.) I worked with epicrates on the boa side and had some morph boa stuff all hets from Ralph Davis and Pete Kahl (who sold me the meanest snake I have ever owned a striped female boa 66% het albino way back when)

Right now I only have asperations to be a hobbiest breeder of Ball Pythons and breed what I like and I have thousands invested in Ball Pythons, not even tens or hundreds of thousands.

[Zephyr]

Why does it matter to you what other breeders do with their projects? If it's working out as badly as you say they are then they would try a different marketing strategy or go out of business. I don't see why you're trying to make other people's businesses your own.

[dr del]

Hi again.

If the breeder proved out a new unknown gene they literally control the market, they are setting supply and demand with the progress of the project. That really hardly ever comes up. Also on that same point, what fool spends hundreds of thousands of dollars on a project and then keeps it a secret? Does that even happen? What's the plan for making the investment in time and money back?

If it is a single unknown gene then not letting on gives them more time to spread it into other gene combo's. If there is also something unusual in it like wobbles, kinks, some odd sex linked thing, then it also lets you explore that and see if it can be countered. Basically silence lets you always stay one step ahead of the customers ( now competitors ) for longer.

If it is a combo that produces a simply amazing snake however then you have to worry people might bypass buying from you completely and just make their own if they know what is in it. Again staying quiet on the genetics lets you get a generation or two ahead and makes more money for the breeder in the long run. Ralph Davis used this recently with the Flatline - a combination and a new gene all at the same time ( I think - I have no special info or anything ). If it is then when it finally comes out it will raise the price of the new gene tremendously compared to him just going "Ta-daaa! it's a ..... " In the meantime he can produce more and have them sitting in his racks ready to sell at the new, higher, price.

Occasionally rumours surface about unexpected things like allelic genes as well that could muddy the market. For ages there were persistant rumours that toffees and candys were allelic with lavender albinos - it turned out they aren't but are allelic with regular albinos. Now, if that had come out at the start, how many people would have bought a pair of toffees when they could have bought a het toffee and a, cheap as chips, albino and produce an animal that looked almost the same?

That also raises the spectre of dishonesty - an unscrupulous breeder could have sold toffinos as toffees and nobody would know until some of that animals hatchlings don't colour up as they age. By which time some of them could have been sold. It certainly put me off when thinking about getting into the project once it all came out.

How many people bought Deserts not knowing the females couldn't breed? Would they have bought them if they had known?

So as I see it there are a few reasons, some honest and some not, for secrecy in the hobby.

Not pleasant to think about but there it is.


dr del

[JPR]

[Daigga]

If the breeder proved out a new unknown gene they literally control the market, they are setting supply and demand with the progress of the project. That really hardly ever comes up. Also on that same point, what fool spends hundreds of thousands of dollars on a project and then keeps it a secret? Does that even happen? What's the plan for making the investment in time and money back?

The kind of fool who isn't ready to reveal it yet? If I invest 10k in a project, I want to be sure I can earn it back plus some. If I only produce a handful of animals and decide "Ah well, I can reveal what I have, sell some examples, and start getting my money back", and the next thing I know there are half a dozen other people selling what I produced and undercutting me and each other, and I've only earned back half of what I've invested as the price I wanted to sell for has crashed. I jumped the gun, and now I have to pay for it.

If I make something cool, of course I'm going to want to share it, even if I'm keeping it it's brand new and I'm keeping it for myself. For me, the point of a teaser pic would be more of a "Hey, I'm working on a really cool secret project, this is what you might be able to expect from me in the coming years". At the same time, I'm certainly not giving out any more information than that until I'm ready to sell. When I'm ready, I'll be ready, and have a nice head start on the rest of the market as far as production of something new, which I deserve for producing it. I'm not about to sacrifice my hard earned head start just to satisfy someones curiosity. Knowing my own habits, if I posted anything besides a picture I would give too much away...

Bottom line; breeders get excited. They still need to come out with a profit, so I wouldn't expect to have the process broken down for anyone who asks (which is bad business any way you look at it).

[KMG]

What is that!?! Tell me all about it!!!!

[JPR]

What is that!?! Tell me all about it!!!!

No. It's a super secret mystery ball. none shall know. But I'll tell you one thing : Al buys no in she.