Huge enclosure set-up

[Slim]

There are several optimal ways to keep Ball Pythons, and several truly horrible ways to keep Ball Pythons; which leaves tons of room in the middle. The middle is neither good, or bad, just not always within what most keepers recognize as normal. While I don't think it's horrible to keep a BP, even a baby BP in a huge tank, I think you have to be responsive to YOUR individual animal. Some will do just fine in a large environment, and some will stress out to the point of going off food.

And while we're on the subject of stress, please allow me to make this point. While I agree that BPs in the wild have the whole world to explore, it's worth noting that they really only naturally occupy a small sliver of that world. And, even if you can successfully replicate that small sliver, in a 100 gallon tank, it's still a tank, and the animal is still in captivity. Both of which induce stress on the animal. No matter how comfortable you think your little Beeper is, there is stress involved with being in captivity for any wild animal. If your animal deals with that stress well enough to also handle a large enclosure, then good on both of you...have a ball, so to speak. But, this will not be the case for every animal. To talk of building super large enclosures before you even own an animal that will be comfortable in that type of environment is not only putting the two wheeled buggy in front of the equine, it's frankly selfish on the keepers part.

Too many times I see threads asking, "Why can't I keep my BP in a huge natural cage, for the good of the animal", when what the keeper really means is, I want my BPs to be cool display animals, and since they just don't do that well, I'm gonna' make a display out of their cage, and the animal will just have to deal with it...for it's own good.

This is one area where checking your ego at the door could benefit your snake in the long run.

Again. let me be clear. I'm not saying huge enclosures are inherently a bad thing, but if your snake does not thrive in that environment, you should be prepared to ego check out that situation and move the animal to an enclosure more suited to that individual snake.

[cheaversg]

Yes but im saying how do you know that a large enclosure will stress out the snake and why. I read what your saying but your saying that with what proof. It doesn't make any sense at all to me that a ball would stress out in a bigger environment. How do you know that a ball will stress out in a bigger environment. Is this common knowledge that someone started and everyone just spits out when the topic arises or have you tested it and have an actual reason. Are you just repeating what was told to you when you first started or are you making an actual knowledgeable statement. The way I see it is: if the husbandry is right and the snake is being properly treated for then why not? and yes it may be a small sliver of the world they cover in the wild but they definitely cover bigger than a 100 gal tank worth of space.

Baby snakes in the wild don't have enclosures. So why does a bigger enclosure cause them not to eat and how do you specifically know?
same question for adult snakes as above. How do you know that its bad for a snake? and if nobody knows and is spewing unchecked or untested "knowledge" then why should anyone speak against it except for its easier for a beginner to keep the husbandry right in a smaller enclosure.

[gardenfiend138]

The biggest issues with larger enclosures are providing appropriate environmental conditions and cleaning. Also, with animals that are fairly sedentary, having a larger enclosure is often considered a waste of space due to it being utilized less than 50% of the time.
I think that often when people have larger enclosures they are not providing adequate environmental conditions, which does stress the animal.

[cheaversg]

why does anyone think a big tank will stress the snake out?

[cheaversg]

The biggest issues with larger enclosures are providing appropriate environmental conditions and cleaning. Also, with animals that are fairly sedentary, having a larger enclosure is often considered a waste of space due to it being utilized less than 50% of the time.
I think that often when people have larger enclosures they are not providing adequate environmental conditions, which does stress the animal.

Ok that makes sense to me on that approach but what your saying with the proper conditions doesn't seem to be what others are addressing when they talk about enclosure size. And yea but its only a waste of space 50% of the time and if its not there it doesn't have the option. So can a snake possibly be less stressed in a bigger enclosure if conditions are proper?

[Slim]

I rarely do what I'm about to do, but since I've already put this one in the SMH category, here goes...

First and foremost, cheaversg, it's becoming clear to me that you already have all the answers you want, and are just looking for confirmation at this point. But before you continue with your Space Shuttle maintenance, please allow me to respond to your last post.

Yes but im saying how do you know that a large enclosure will stress out the snake and why.

Because I've seen too many cases where someone brings home a juvenile BP and puts it in a large tank, then comes on here having an aneurism because their snake won't eat. The advise is almost always to let the snake settle, put it in a smaller environment, and give it secure hides. And lo and behold, the darned ole' snake starts to eatin' their vittles...

Does this happen to all snakes? NO IT DOES NOT. Pretty sure I stated that. Can it happen, and should you be prepared to deal with it? YES YOU SHOULD. Pretty sure I stated that to.

Your problem is that you haven't checked your ego at the door yet. You think that surely MY snake won't get stressed by a larger cage...why heck, they have the whole of the African Savannah to roam around in. In reality, in the wild, they live in small, tight, holes in the ground and move mostly because the need to in order to fulfill one or more basic needs, not because they want to go sight seeing. You see, on the African Savannah, sight seeing for the sake of sight seeing, will get you eaten.

I read what your saying but your saying that with what proof.

Proof? Nothing scientific, but I'm saying it with 6 years of experience in my rear view mirror, and while that is many years less experience than some, I would venture to guess it's a lot more than you have. Not trying to be rude, but you did ask.

It doesn't make any sense at all to me that a ball would stress out in a bigger environment.

You have make this point quite clear...

How do you know that a ball will stress out in a bigger environment.

As I clearly stated previously, not all of them will. But ask yourself this question, if yours does, what are you willing to do? Are you willing to move the animal to an enclosure more suited to that particular snake? Or will your ego rule the day and will you continue to house the animal in your Big Country Safari?

Is this common knowledge that someone started and everyone just spits out when the topic arises or have you tested it and have an actual reason. Are you just repeating what was told to you when you first started or are you making an actual knowledgeable statement.

Common knowledge and common husbandry practices are common for a reason... Again, I'm giving you advice based on my experience and my knowledge. If you choose to take another path, that is your right. But I would always ask you to do what's right for your animal, before you do what's right for you.

The way I see it is: if the husbandry is right and the snake is being properly treated for then why not?

I see it that way too. How did you manage to miss that point in my previous post? However, and let's just kick this around for giggles and grins, what happens if even with your husbandry being right, your snake shows signs of stress? What steps will you take to correct the situation? Do you even know what signs to look for? These are things worth thinking about before you build your "Born Free" exhibit and drop any ole' BP you might have laying around into it.

and yes it may be a small sliver of the world they cover in the wild but they definitely cover bigger than a 100 gal tank worth of space.

Really? How often? Where is your proof? Is this common knowledge that someone started and everyone just spits out when the topic arises or have you tested it and have an actual reason.

Baby snakes in the wild don't have enclosures. So why does a bigger enclosure cause them not to eat and how do you specifically know?
same question for adult snakes as above. How do you know that its bad for a snake? and if nobody knows and is spewing unchecked or untested "knowledge" then why should anyone speak against it except for its easier for a beginner to keep the husbandry right in a smaller enclosure.

AGAIN, Baby snakes in the wild don't deal with the stress of being captive on a daily basis. Same goes for adult snakes. And please, for the freaking love of anything you hold dear, show me where I said this was always a bad idea? I made the point that every snake is an individual, and you need to do what's right for the individual animal. If that means keeping them in a 7,000 square foot slice of Africa, then build away and have a freakin' blast. But it might also mean your snake is most comfortable and shows the least signs of stress in a 36 qt tub. Are you willing to do what's right for your snake?

[ROACH]

cheaversg....How long have you been raising Ball Pythons? Basically do what you want to do, but please for the sake of the animal, if you notice any stress, please fix the problem. When I first got into raising BP's I thought the same way you are right now. Needless to say, I had 1 snake stop eating for 10 1/2 months untill I decided to try a smaller home for it, then It started eating and grew like a weed. The snake you probably have Im sure was not born in the wild, so do you think it even knows what the world is like? Let it go outside and Im pretty sure it would be scared and rather hide as much as it could! Just my thoughts on this subject.

[MonkeyShuttle]

I find this thread shallow and pedantic


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[cheaversg]

alright no need for dissecting everything i say like that but okay. I actually have my baby ball in a 10 gal tank and not trying to put it in a huge tank any time soon because of lack of space. A ball python definitely covers more size than a 100 gal tank in the wild. And on something you've never tested whats your 6 years to me? Im not asking for some rude answer like that nor am i challenging your actual personal knowledge over mine.
I
f you don't want to humor my curiosity and instead just going to be a prick then don't answer me. Cause this is what this site is for for people to ask questions, communicate about reptiles or other pets, and talk right or wrong?

This question wasn't to cover common knowledge it was to find out knowledge that I haven't found on the internet and was actually curious because of another article read about snakes not eating. (did you read that article its attached)

Quite frankly you should check your ego if a question that actually challenges you to think of an answer or test a curious hypothesis causes you to answer that nastily then you got problems.

So let me rephrase my question if your gunna be a prick once again dont answer id rather not talk to you.

Why in your opinion or your experience does a large tank stress out some ball pythons?

[cheaversg]

Thank you roach that was more of an answer I was looking for cause of personal experience but everyone is caught up on the question and answering rudely when i started with my snake is in a small enclosure and ended with look at this article maybe they might like a larger enclosure better? But instead no one reads jumps to conclusion poses no facts really to me and still doesn't answer my question or thought. I trust everyone's experience here but which is why I have mine in a smaller enclosure because i am a first time owner but instead of answering my question everyone responds challenging my experience like why Still no one has answered my question and i bet none of you read the article and instead jumped on the question like ants to sugar just to force experience down someones throat.