Huge enclosure set-up

[steve_r34]

I gave up on reading after my boy slim went in lmao ... If u want to put a snake in a tank the size of a room get a bci or something .I feel like I just posted abut this yesterday ..

[cheaversg]

well you wouldnt have answered my question either nor is that what i wanted to do either so both and your boy slims answers are useless lmao

[Archimedes]

nothing about what you just said has changed the fact that you are being rude just for the sake of it. go ahead, read up on some caresheets, and soak up some information. there's about 40,000 hours' worth of experience on this site, if you simply lurk and watch how other folks solve their problems.

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[cheaversg]

i wasnt looking for a solution to a problem. I was asking a hypothetical question to someone who can give an educated answer with proof it isnt hard to understand. if i had a problem sure i would accept his answer but if no one wants to read then i cant help you when i dont accept your answer. and frankly no one else cares if their rude and because their a veteran they can be rude to me? Nah i asked a question your boy didnt answer it you did so w.e to me ill say what i gotta say cause he did too.

the problem with alot of veterans (not all you've all helped a lot really) on this site is that they forget they were beginners trying to learn like everyone else and thats my biggest problem with the group of you. Your all smart and helpful but im going to be rude if you are. Im not gunna sit here and let some of yall talk to me like however just cause you have more experience just remember when you started is all. And I know im not the only one who has felt like that.

[Inarikins]

Lol just because we're "veterans" doesn't mean we know everything. We all started out not knowing what to do and turning to others for help. I did it, I'm sure Slim did it too. The issue lies in when the person asking for help (or "hypothetically" asking for help) goes ahead and ignores all the advice they're given. It happens a lot, when you've been on here for a while. The people that understand that we're worried for their snake and just want the best for them go on to stay and do well. Those that argue and fight and pretend they know better (even though they don't and that's why they've come and asked for help) seem to leave and not come back.

The difference lies in not the advice given but in how the advice is taken. Declaring people rude simply for providing advice based not on personal proof, but experience and years of being exposed to other herpers and their problems puts you in the second category I described above. Yelling at people and calling them rude simply for trying to help, and then getting mad when they get frustrated is pretty silly.

But no, go on and keep calling us rude. You're the one demanding advice and evidence then not accepting it because it doesn't find your narrow definition of what constitutes actual evidence.

[John1982]

A bit unfair that you get to spout 2nd hand knowledge but tertiary gets the stiff arm. I think you should do what you like and stop looking for approval when, judging by the tone of your original post, you already know it's extremely unlikely. Use your own observations and good judgement and if you're going to try to use someone else's for your arguments, at least make sure you understand them first. If you're going to keep referencing that article as your reason for giving ball pythons larger enclosures I think you should give it another read, or two, or three.

Here's a quick synopsis for you: Ball pythons are highly sedentary creatures. They park it in a mound or borrow and chill until the likelihood of food strolling into their new home falls below comfort levels - for whatever reason.

If you're going to follow that train of thinking wouldn't you say that the time they spend above ground, on the move, is when they are most stressed? I mean, this is when they are most vulnerable to predators and are all worried about where they gonna get their next meal ticket.

IF you are providing your ball python with everything it needs I doubt it will be doing much wandering at night except to get some water and do a bit of thermoregulating. I'm pretty sure that if a ball python found a burrow in the wild that was nice and snug, and rodents and water magically appeared to keep it well sated, and their poop magically disappeared to keep things sanitary, the creature would seldom leave. As an observer of my snakes, when I see a ball python being highly active at night, I try to figure out what I'm not providing. As a general rule, ball pythons don't slither around to stretch their legs and enjoy the scenery. An active ball python is either attempting to escape discomfort(bad temperature ranges, mites, toxins come to mind) or in search of food, water, a mate. Of course, there are those outlying weirdos that just seem to wander regardless. I lump them into the group of slow learners that are following instincts to find the next hide/meal/drink/mate despite them being provided regularly on a silver platter.

Here's what you do when you're working with an animal on which you can't find much info. You provide a crazy big enclosure with every option you can think of: Low basking spot, medium basking spot, high basking spot, low hide, medium hide, high hide, humid hide, dry hide, cold hide, hot hide, etc, etc, etc. You basically provide it all and observe. You do this because you aren't sure where this new animal will thrive. After a while, using your observations, you begin removing the options that are shunned by the habitant until you end up with the ideal habitat. I guess what I'm getting at is that the ideal habitat for ball pythons is not a mystery and knowing what we know about their habits the required size for a healthy, thriving ball python isn't either. Sure you can go bigger with success, you can also go bigger with failure. We advise people to do what works best in most cases and that is a smaller habitat.

[John1982]

That all said, I think a person could create as large a habitat as they like to house a ball python or even group of ball pythons. If done right, I doubt the stress levels of these animals would be any lesser or greater than those of snakes kept in an appropriately set up tub. The person doing such would be doing it for their own benefit and enjoyment, the inhabitants I doubt give two farts either way - long as they get their 3 hots and a cot.

[satomi325]

why does anyone think a big tank will stress the snake out?

Because big open spaces makes them more susceptible to predators. Thus they are insecure and afraid of big open spaces. If your big enclosure wasn't properly fitted with clutter and hides, a snake sure can stress from being afraid and insecure. That stress and insecurity can lead to unnatural hunger strikes, which can lead to more health issues and potentially death.

Ball pythons spend 90% of their time holed up in rodent burrows and termite mounds. Very very small spaces. The typically sit waiting for prey and journey out to find another burrow or mound to wait and ambush new prey. Or depending on the season, leave to breed. If all their necessities were provided, I doubt they would move much as someone also mentioned.

But in general, they're not exploring the great African grasslands if that's what you are implying. Ball pythons are a shy species. They prefer to hide and thrive in small spaces, which is why they make terrible display animals.

With that said, a large enclosure can work if you can provide the necessary requirements like make sure the large enclosure is full of clutter and hides. The point is to make sure it doesn't make the snake feel open or vulnerable. Its that feeling of insecurity that is bad and not necessarily the size. However, a lot of large enclosures usually aren't decorated correctly and leave a snake out in the open. You don't want an insecure snake. That just makes them go on a hunger strike and become more defensive/nippy.


My ball pythons don't get large enclosures. But even if they did, my personal animals wouldn't utilize the space. I've tried it. They're in their hides every time I check up on them. They don't even utilize the space I provide them. Maybe one out of 10 at the most. My BPs only come out of their hides to eat, shed, or thermoregulate. But other than that, they spend the majority of the time holed up in their hides. They're not given the name 'pet rocks' for a reason. I give my other species larger spaces because I know they would utilize such spaces and aren't as sensitive to stress or enclosure size as ball pythons.

And when upgrading enclosure sizes, some of my more sensitive BPs have gone off feed and only started eating again when put back into a smaller enclosure.

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[steve_r34]

well you wouldnt have answered my question either nor is that what i wanted to do either so both and your boy slims answers are useless lmao

I think ur question has been answered very well by very knowledgeable people ... balls do not need a lot of space ..there live in rodent holes in the wild and come out to hunt or find new living quarters .. all ur doing is looking for acceptance for what ur doing and really at the end of the day its ur snake no one elses so do what u must .. but if u happen to run into problems make sure this post is the 1st thing u check .. and if it happens to workout for u then congrats u own a bp that loves his space ...

[MonkeyShuttle]

I type 6 words a minute so i have nothing to say


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