Thanks for the info, I think she had a stroke cause her back end went, I don't have anything larger than a ball python but she is no longer suffering. the other seems to be better. I'm wondering if there is genetic going on because in the last couple years I've gotten young rats from a particular breeder, he breeds mainly blues dumbos. I've had them come up with the same symptoms. They are fine one day and half parolized the next and the more I think about it the others were just over a year old. Wow seven litters you must have a great line of rats.