Thanks for the responses about them. I am hoping they turn out to be dwarfs. I am very new to retics, you got to learn some how. I was told SD but I was skeptical about it but for a pair at $150 I had to. I have the means and capability for retics just lack true ownership experience. I have worked with many of them and have friends that breed them, so it's not like I just jumped into it without looking. All in time. But thanks again for all the info on them.