Desert problems

[HerpIsAhobby]

I've spoken with many breeders in regards to the desert females and let me tell you people who actually have desert females seem convinced it can and will be done. One breeder told me he's seen pics of a super and it was an entirely white snake. Now all of this should be taken with a grain of salt because it was all here say. I did not actually see the snake but this is what was told to me. One likened it to piebalds when they were first imported and told me that when they first came in people were saying the females were having problems breeding and all it was going to take is time. I'm going to keep in contact with these guys and see how the breeding plans they have work out for them. One has 2 2000g females that were paired up for this season so I guess with time we will all see.

As for me I'm not going to spend a dime on the project until the kinks get worked out. That may cost me some money down the road if they ever produce but to me its worth it to not waste thousands of dollars on eye candy.

[pinkeye714]

Honestly. I would still love to have a female desert in my collection. Just not willing to pay $1500 for one right now. :/

[jason_ladouceur]

I've spoken with many breeders in regards to the desert females and let me tell you people who actually have desert females seem convinced it can and will be done. One breeder told me he's seen pics of a super and it was an entirely white snake. Now all of this should be taken with a grain of salt because it was all here say. I did not actually see the snake but this is what was told to me. One likened it to piebalds when they were first imported and told me that when they first came in people were saying the females were having problems breeding and all it was going to take is time. I'm going to keep in contact with these guys and see how the breeding plans they have work out for them. One has 2 2000g females that were paired up for this season so I guess with time we will all see.

As for me I'm not going to spend a dime on the project until the kinks get worked out. That may cost me some money down the road if they ever produce but to me its worth it to not waste thousands of dollars on eye candy.

with all the people working with them for all the time they have been around the fact that there has been NO, 0, Nota piece of evidence offered to the public disputing the problems surrounding growth and reproduction, this would with out a doubt cause dessert sales, prices and interest to sky rocket tells me all i need to know. to bad because desserts are awsome. in a couple of years when people get tired of all the secret crap around them i will happily pick one up for $100 or $200 because that's all they will be worth. as far as pied's i still hear of breeders holding on to the het females all the time because they say the grow faster and are more prolific breeders than the visual pieds.

[WingedWolfPsion]

I don't think that the issue with deserts is going to affect the value of the males significantly, in the long run. Instead, desert combo males will become more valuable, because knowing that all desert females are just pets means that you'll only get half the number of 'viable' deserts in each clutch. That will make deserts (the males only) a rarity.
Desert combos still look fantastic, and I think they'll continue to do well, even if only the males have value to breeders.

If you breed a desert to a normal, you get 50% deserts, and 50% normals. If desert females are sterile, that just means that 75% of your clutch (on average) sells for 'normal/pet' prices (or little more), while only 25% sells for morph prices.

It all depends on how you look at it. Some people will avoid the morph, knowing they can't breed the females, while others will be drawn to it for its potential and rarity.

There's no evidence that there's anything wrong with the females, other than sterility and perhaps a slow growth rate. That just makes them good pets, it's not some fatal flaw in the morph.

I think it's going to take a while for the people who are invested in desert projects to come to terms with things, if the females do prove to be sterile once and for all. They will have to accept that they won't be getting $500 for those females...or, perhaps, even $100. That's quite a blow, but it doesn't have anything to do with the value of the males, which should remain high.

[Brandon Osborne]

For the most part, boelens are pet snakes, but I wouldn't say they're only worth $50. Even if female deserts don't produce viable clutches, they still have some value in my eyes.

It was just a figure of speech. I think the combos look amazing.....but not thousands of dollars amazing if they are incapable of reproducing.

[Brandon Osborne]

as far as pied's i still hear of breeders holding on to the het females all the time because they say the grow faster and are more prolific breeders than the visual pieds.

Jason, it all depends on the bloodline. My line of Pieds grow fast and large. I have a female Pied I hatched in Sept 2010 that is pushing 1400 grams. My Pewter Pied girl was hatched in August 2010 and is 1700. Another Sept 2011 female I have is already 340.....but these also originate from my female het, Bertha. She is just under 6' in length, weighs between 5000-5500 grams, and lays clutches of 13-14 eggs. My latest clutch from my 05 Pied female hatched last week. Her first clutch was 08. I've never seen the problems other people claim to have with Pieds.

[WingedWolfPsion]

One interesting side-effect of this which just occurred to me: It may put dozens of normally insanely high-valued combo morphs into the hands of pet owners.

That pinstripe - spider- pastel - fire - champagne - desert female is still a desert female, and still infertile. So, still just a pet--a pet that anyone could hope to keep.

It may wind up getting more people interested in ball python morphs, which will be good for the industry.

[Brandon Osborne]

One interesting side-effect of this which just occurred to me: It may put dozens of normally insanely high-valued combo morphs into the hands of pet owners.

That pinstripe - spider- pastel - fire - champagne - desert female is still a desert female, and still infertile. So, still just a pet--a pet that anyone could hope to keep.

It may wind up getting more people interested in ball python morphs, which will be good for the industry.

Very true. But how many of those breeders will tell the buyer the females will not reproduce? Could be as bad as it is good. Also, when you get that many morphs in one combo, you could end up with a female that has desert genes and not know it. I'm not sure I'd be ok with that.

[BallsUnlimited]

now i have not read anything on this but has anyone tried to breed a multi gene desert female?

[JoeEllisReptiles]

Here are my thoughts. Desert Females do grow slower. I also know that female Caramels can and do produce good eggs every season if you do it right. I also remember when Het. Pied females would not grow for poop. 10 or so years ago most of everyone I knew that had het pied could not get a female to lay good eggs until their 4-5 year. They sucked at feeding, growing, and were hard to work with. Once the Pieds were more affordable they were outbred and you can get a female to grow and lay with no problems at all. Caramel females need to be kink free, have 3 years of growth and hit the size of 1800-2000 grams and you will get good eggs. if you breed the caramels too small or young they will slug out from that point if they are bred every year.

I think the deserts will be the same way. Get the females to 1800-2000 grams and an age around 3 years old. Don't rush to breed the females. If they are too young and too small just wait. I do think the combos and new blood from big females that lay large clutches will help with this down the road. I am curious to see how many female deserts have been given the chance to hit the 2000 gram mark and 3 years before trying to breed them. I doubt there are many of any at all.

If a young human girl is capable of having a child at 8 years of age and she is impregnated she will probably die as well as the infant with no outside medical help. We have ways around to make sure the mother and the baby live through medical technology now, but this is not the case with Ball Pythons. I know this is a little off the wall, but I think sometime we need to stop rushing certain things. it will be better for the animals and the market. I have some combo female deserts and I have no doubt in my mind they were produce for me. I just hope that once the answers come to light (and if there are close to what I think), the desert market wont be ruined by the lack of knowledge. Again this is just my opinion and I might be 100% wrong on the Deserts.... but I hope I am not.