Disturbing

[L2.BP.Plox]

I want to state that it was not the opinions that upset me, but the behavior I observed that upset me. I would like to clarify that I enjoy and support debate, so long as it is enlightened and civil. If it is anything other, I do not believe it serves a purpose nor do I believe it is constructive. That being said, I have responded to certain posts with explanations and responses. I hope this clears up my stand point a little bit. I apologize if I came across offensive to anyone. It was definitely not my intention.

Personally I am not going to comment on ethics but this comment bothers me Albinism is simply a genetic flaw it occurs naturally in every species. It is noting more than a lack of melanin in the chromataphores of the skin. It is in no way regional at all. Rare yes but if a wild king came across an albino snake it would be food just the same as any other snake.

I did not write "Albino Ball Python", and I apologize for that. I had presumed that most people saw the picture, and I was incorrect. I was referring to king cobras and ball pythons being in different places regionally.

So are passion, debate, and difference of opinion wrong?

Is what is going on here any different than having a difference of opinion with people in real life?

Should a forum only be about complimenting pictures and giving a few husbandry advice without ever discussing serious/sensitive subject?

I was not at all saying that passion, debate, and difference are opinion are wrong, and I am sorry if it came out that way. What I felt was out of place were people mocking each other and infringing upon privacy. I enjoy debate, but I believe it should be done in a civil manner. I do believe debate helps people expand their opinions and knowledge, and that it is vital on forums. But again, if it does not happen in a civil way, it does not help anyone.

That being said, I did see the thread with the cobra eating the ball python. I think personally that it may not have been in the best of taste considering this is a forum full of people who love ball pythons, and the OP should have at least thought of that before posting. However, I wouldn't have a problem with something like that being posted if they had offered a fair warning in the title (I.E. "Warning - Graphic"). I think what happened there was that people were lured in by an ambiguous title and then taken completely off-guard. I personally don't expect to see a ball python being eaten by a cobra when I click on a thread title like that.

I agree that this would have helped a lot. The picture had thrown me off, but the "LOL" is what really bothered me. Additionally, a friend of mine had posted on that particular thread and was mocked by a couple members for his opinion about the photograph being out of place for the environment, and especially the "LOL". Again, I want to make it clear, to everyone, that it was the behavior that disturbed me more so than the picture. However, I thought it to be necessary to explain my opinion as well.

And when they do get genuinely malicious, those people are put in their place rather quickly. There is a big difference between joking around to diffuse a situation, and actual mean, hateful, behavior towards other members. That is never tolerated here..

I have definitely seen this happen before. However, there are, in my opinion, other behaviors that go unchecked that are offensive to people. Their presence particularly bothered me in the threads I highlighted in my post, and in a few others that I did not mention because of how much controversy was tied into them.

I moved this thread out of the Ball Python forum because it's not about ball pythons.

To the OP....

I'm sorry you've seen some threads/discussions here that you find disturbing. We do have an ebb and flow of negative topics here at times. We can go for long stretches with nothing but "nice" threads...and then have a span of days or a week or two with a number of controversial threads popping up. It happens. It's just the nature of the venue.

While it's all fine and good to say, "We should all be able to get along and be nice, even when we disagree on something"...that is an impossibly vague idea to be able to live up to. Everyone has different opinions that they wish to express....and everyone has different degrees of tolerance on how topics and disagreements are handled.

Thank you for moving it where you thought it was most appropriate, Judy. I was not sure where to post it.

I understand that not everyone will get along because of differences in moral values, opinions, and knowledge. I do believe debate is a great way to expand knowledge. I was just very disturbed by the behavior I saw in the mentioned threads and other threads I have read overtime. I kept it to myself the entire time, but it had just become to often that I was reading it. It might be the time of day that I view threads, and the time periods. I was just reading behaviors, that are in my opinion out of place, a lot more. I thought it should be addressed and I did so.

First, you come off as a distasteful sort of person claiming they never make a disparaging remark or ever disagree in the slightest manner ever, by your post that somehow the forum is full of people being argumenative and negative. Perhaps you avoid posting anything that could possibly be construed in the slightest negative manner.. but I'd bet you don't post much of substance if that's true. People who discuss anything at all will disagree and in any disagreement between people, some will find the fact that someone has a differing opinion to be offensive. Healthy discussion is not made up of agreements. It's made up of differing opinions and ideas. Even on this forum, there's people who claim to have two snakes living in one cage and no one flames them automatically. There's a degree of civility here that doesn't exist on many forums.

Lastly, if you don't feel that any killing is ever humane, I'd hope you were a vegan and don't keep any carnivore pets(like dogs, cats, ferrets, reptiles... etc). Humane means that the creature did not feel unnecasary pain. I believe you somehow are trying to say any killing is immoral. Humane has little to do with whether the creature is albino, sick, or needed for food. It has more to do with the method. Freezing a mammal is generally accepted to be inhumane in most cases. Killing a mouse with CO2 gas is not considered to be inhumane, even if the mouse is not sick or injured. It's part of keeping pets to accept that some need to eat other creatures, whether it's whole and natural or processed into kibble.

I never said that I do not say that I do not make negative remarks nor did I say I never disagree. I am sorry if you received that idea from my thread. I am imperfect just like everyone else. However, I try my very best not to express my opinion in an offensive manner. I believe that debate in a civil manner is far more constructive than debate in an uncivil manner because it avoids Argumentum Verbosium (which is an augmentative state that focus on attacking on a personal level or exerting so much anger the person ends their opinion and nothing is gained). I agree that if everyone agreed there would be nothing to be learned. I cannot express enough that I did not intend for people to think I do not agree with debate. I just do not believe debate should occur in an offensive or infringing manner. This forum site has more civility than a lot of other forum sites, I will agree with you there. However, my observations have led me to conclude that has been a great increase in offensive behaviors. It is this increase that I sough to address.

Your second point, I did not include in the quote; however, I did talk about it in another person's quote. Again, I apologize for not specifying Ball Python. I see how that could spark some confusion.

On your third point, I believe you misinterpreted me (I am not saying this offensively). I was not saying that it was immoral. I just wanted to address "humane killing". I do not believe there is a way to "humanely" kill a creature. But, I did state that I could see the justification if it ended some sort of illness or intense pain. However, I, personally, would not be able to do it. I do have a corn snake. I have had her for about a year and a half. I am actually looking for a new home for her. I will not be able to take her with me when I move, and I have also been having issues feeding her mice. I have always done f/t'd because it desensitized me quite a bit. However, I do not eat beef because of habititat destruction in South America. (there is a great deal of rain forest destruction to make feeding grounds for cows) I know by not eating beef, I do not stop the destruction of rain forests, but I do not feel comfortable eating it. Applying this same logic, I have not felt quite as comfortable with the f/t'd mice. I would just like to state, once again, I was not intending to re-spark debate on this topic. I felt it necessary to include my opinion at the time. The topic had bothered me because there was a bit of a taunting directed at a particular person for stating they know someone that culled animals. However, since I included it, I appreciate your following after it.