The Pros and Cons between Live and Froze!????????????

[daji_]

John , I dun think the keeper in this forum they dun know chinese lor

[JLC]

Wow.

Ok. Seems to me like whatever the initial misunderstanding might have been, we ALL seem to be on the same page about live vs. frozen/thawed now. John presented reasonable arguments about why he advocates f/t and did not seem to express any illogical reasons against feeding live.

Daji, you wanted reassurance (I guess? ) that your methods of feeding your own snakes were safe. I think we gave that to you. What does it matter what John thinks or does, so long as you know you're doing the best you can for your own animals?

You're right in assuming that MOST of the members here can not read Chinese...however, you two are not the only Chinese speaking members we have and I'm quite sure we can find someone to read any C&P'ed material from the Hong Kong forum. If nothing else, my own sister-in-law is Chinese and I can get a direct translation from her if I need to. ....just saying....

[daji_]

Here, he feed the live to the baby !? but he suggest feed frozen to other keeper ?! What's wrong !?

[Homegrownscales]

I think every person has their own views on frozen vs live. On this screen shot it looks like to me anyways he is suggesting to another keeper on how to switch their snake to frozen thawed. While every person and keeper has their own veiws on it. Both are correct. I know that jumbo rats live can cause serious damage, frozen or live. Therefore I don't feed jumbos. If the snake is too small to be eating a large or jumbo rat yes it can cause serious damage by rupturing the stomach or intestines and creating and internal infection. This will happen frozen thawed or live. Really to be a good keeper you must know how large of prey to feed, and do it safely whether you use frozen or live. And know how to provide for your animals. There is nothing wrong with either way. It doesn't appear to me that the snake in the pic was fed to large of prey but you cannot also really tell from that picture. It certainly didn't die because it was fed a live rat. If the prey was to large then that is a faulty keeper. Most prey that is eaten that is too large will not even be swallowed or it will be regurgitated. But this isn't always the case. Just because a snake looks big enough to eat a jumbo rat doesn't mean they should be. I've never used jumbos on even my largest girls. I feel that jumbos are way too large for a ball python and I don't use larges either. The largest meal I would use on even one of my big girls is like a decent sized medium. But I go for smaller meals fed more frequently. Anyways it appears there was a misunderstanding in some way. Now that we all agree that either way is no better than the other we can move on from the squabbling.

[johnloon]

My god....

I feed live rat pup, fuzzy and mice to babies, I also feed frozen to babies if they have good feeding response!..and then I start switching them to bigger frozen as they gradually takes larger meals.

Do not accuse me of being irrespecutful to comments by the forum members here. I treasure all comments and I enjoy sharing ideas with others.

Please be sensible and share your views clearly and honestly.
Please do not make anything up...otherwise it makes the whole discussion pointless.....

Here, he feed the live to the baby !? but he suggest feed frozen to other keeper ?! What's wrong !?

I am glad that you post the screen shot out. I was just helping a forum member to switch from live to frozen. Is there anything wrong with that??

I hope the forum member can be the judge on this.

[Nektu]

They should be the judge of this. Personally, I have always fed live. I know that there are dangers of doing this. That is why the snakes are never left alone with a live prey just sitting in their enclosures. I hold it for them by the tail. If they seem disinterested, then the prey goes back into it's own tub until the snakes are hungry.

If a person feels uncomfortable feeding live, you can always switch over to FT. Here's something I found on switching:
http://www.herpcenter.com/feeding-sn...en-thawed.html

[JLC]

Here, he feed the live to the baby !? but he suggest feed frozen to other keeper ?! What's wrong !?

I see someone suggesting that if you start out feeding frozen to young ball pythons, it's easier in the long run to have a consistent f/t feeder. Which makes sense to me. Nowhere in there does he make any statements at all about his own feeding practices. He's just answering someone else's question. I answer questions all the time about how to safely feed live....but I feed my own snakes f/t. Does that make me hypocritical?

While I understand the frustration one might feel at seeing someone spreading blatantly false information, I do NOT see any evidence that John is such a person. All I can figure is that you've gotten the idea that John is some kind of bad guy, and therefore anything he says will be interpreted by you in that light and misunderstood, no matter what he says.

[rabernet]

He said I JUST COPY THE POINT SUPPORT myself.
Not a true.
http://www.reptiles.hk/viewthread.ph...age%3D1&page=9
He use lots of NERD photo to support the frozen
And said that the expert always feed the frozen ;
He said the ball not suitable to feed lager rat before
cause the rat claw will damage the snake internal organs ;

Being that I'm a personal friend of Kevin's at NERD, and have been a guest at his facility on three separate occasions for almost a week each time - I can tell you that NERD does feed live. I know this, because I've fed his ball pythons, and we fed them live.

He's full of it, and he knows it, which is why he has an excuse for what you print and an excuse for not coming on here. Every large breeder here in the States has fed live. There are a handful that feed f/t, because they simply don't care to deal with breeding their own rodents, and f/t is easier to get in large volumes.

[rabernet]

Hey Daji,

Please stop blackmailing me over here.

First of all, I have been feeding lives too, I feed my baby ball pythons with live mice.
what I am saying is pre-kill and frozen are better food source in Hong Kong due to live rodents is relatively hard to find over here. I have Never !! said anything about feeding live will kill your snake, that is a stupid statement and you are the one who making it up in here ! What I said was live rodents might cause injury on your snakes ! Especially jumbo rats !!

Regarding the snake death, I never said it was caused by feeding live !!!!! Please don't pretend you can't read Chinese, I said it died after eating a huge meal !!!! A keeper in Hong Kong fed that snake a jumbo rat. we brought the corps to the vet, the vet said it died of internal bleeding.

Do not lie ! and cut and paste responses from this great forum and stick it back into the Hong Kong forum and treat it as supporting statements !!!

You can't hide from what you are doing !! We have Google now !

For guys over here, sorry for all the nonsense.

My deepest apologies to John - I had not read that far. Clearly I need to read the whole thread before responding again.

Thank you for coming on here and replying. It was a good lesson for me not to make snap judgements.

[rabernet]

I see someone suggesting that if you start out feeding frozen to young ball pythons, it's easier in the long run to have a consistent f/t feeder. Which makes sense to me. Nowhere in there does he make any statements at all about his own feeding practices. He's just answering someone else's question. I answer questions all the time about how to safely feed live....but I feed my own snakes f/t. Does that make me hypocritical?

While I understand the frustration one might feel at seeing someone spreading blatantly false information, I do NOT see any evidence that John is such a person. All I can figure is that you've gotten the idea that John is some kind of bad guy, and therefore anything he says will be interpreted by you in that light and misunderstood, no matter what he says.

After putting both feet in my mouth - I have to say that I agree 100% with Judy's assessment here.