The Pros and Cons between Live and Froze!????????????

[Homegrownscales]

No I don't think that's what happened. If a snake would die from being fed live ALL of my snakes should be dead many many times over. Do wild snakes have a vending machine that holds out a frozen thawed rat??? Uhhh no they catch live prey. That death more then likely happened from bad husbandry ie too cold, over heat, bad shipping or disease of some sort. I looks to be a bit of blood there by the vent but I can't tell exactly what went on. I could understand if a live prey chewed through the snake fataly injuring it but I see no evidence of trauma. Beyond the bit of blood there. A snake that gets live prey even once won't die from it unless it's too large of a meal and ruptures something or impacts them and they die a month or two later of sepsis. Most snakes unless they are starving will turn away a huge meal or not be able to swallow it. And that can happen with frozen thawed as well so thats not just a live issue. That's knowing what size prey your snake should be on. Which in turn is a husbandry issue. Don't let this idiot tell you otherwise. Bring this forum to him. Let him get on and explain his reasoning. But to me it just looks like he wants to make $ off of people by selling them frozen. And thats a slimy thing to do. He's lying. I have over 40 ball pythons and every single one eats live and some have eaten live their whole lives.

[daji_]

No I don't think that's what happened. If a snake would die from being fed live ALL of my snakes should be dead many many times over. Do wild snakes have a vending machine that holds out a frozen thawed rat??? Uhhh no they catch live prey. That death more then likely happened from bad husbandry ie too cold, over heat, bad shipping or disease of some sort. I looks to be a bit of blood there by the vent but I can't tell exactly what went on. I could understand if a live prey chewed through the snake fataly injuring it but I see no evidence of trauma. Beyond the bit of blood there. A snake that gets live prey even once won't die from it unless it's too large of a meal and ruptures something or impacts them and they die a month or two later of sepsis. Most snakes unless they are starving will turn away a huge meal or not be able to swallow it. And that can happen with frozen thawed as well so thats not just a live issue. That's knowing what size prey your snake should be on. Which in turn is a husbandry issue. Don't let this idiot tell you otherwise. Bring this forum to him. Let him get on and explain his reasoning. But to me it just looks like he wants to make $ off of people by selling them frozen. And thats a slimy thing to do. He's lying. I have over 40 ball pythons and every single one eats live and some have eaten live their whole lives.

He won't come !! He just want to be a Fake Pro in trifling HK forum.
Really THZ your appropriate comment

[Homegrownscales]

Copy and paste the replies from this thread to the other or paste the link from this page. Make him eat his words. People should see the truth if that's what he's doing.

[Anatopism]

Pros of feeding live - as mentioned before, availability. If raising your own, you can decide what to feed it, in theory making it more nutritious, but I don't honestly think it makes much of a difference.
Cons of feeding live - mice and rats have sharp teeth. rabbits have strong legs with sharp claws and big teeth.

Pros of pre-killed - smells more like live prey, as it is recently dead, more likely to be eaten than f/t by a picky snake than f/t.
Cons of pre-killed - can be messy, and not everybody is capable or willing to humanely kill an animal used for food.

Pros of f/t - convenience, dead food doesn't bite or kick, 'moral' issues for some people
cons of f/t - can be difficult to encourage a picky snake to start on f/t, sometimes they smell gross.


If possible, I feed f/t to all snakes that will take them, because while it is uncommon for a rat or mouse to cause (serious) injury to a snake if fed carefully while being watched, if I'm going to spend lots of money and invest my time and affection towards a snake, I'm not going to take the risk of letting it get hurt.

I have actually seen a young red tail get seriously injured by a barely weaned mouse (you know, the ones that seem like they can barely break human skin if they bite?). The mouse was not starved, and had not been kept in an improper habitat. The snake grabbed the mouse by it's back end, leaving it's front half more or less free, and coiled it in such a way that the mouse bit the skin near the snake's spine in the lower 3rd of it's body. The snake's skin essentially 'unzipped' as it attempted to coil tighter instead of releasing and re-striking for a better grip. There was about half an inch of the snake's spine exposed, and this all happened in seconds. (With a make-shift bandage until he could get to the vet, he was stitched up and survived with a barely noticeable scar).

I've also seen plenty of snakes with nasty scars around their eyes, or even missing eyes because all it takes is one lucky bite from the rat if it is not grabbed in the right place.

Uncommon to cause serious injury? Highly, but if a snake will take f/t from me, I'd prefer to limit my risks. I'm lucky so far in that my snakes I have currently that haven't fully taken to eating f/t also only grab their mice by the neck or face, or release and try again if it tries to bite them.

[daji_]

Copy and paste the replies from this thread to the other or paste the link from this page. Make him eat his words. People should see the truth if that's what he's doing.

He said I JUST COPY THE POINT SUPPORT myself.
Not a true.
http://www.reptiles.hk/viewthread.ph...age%3D1&page=9
He use lots of NERD photo to support the frozen
And said that the expert always feed the frozen ;
He said the ball not suitable to feed lager rat before
cause the rat claw will damage the snake internal organs ;

[johnloon]

Is Frozen Rat Really Healthier Than Live?
One of Hong Kong breeder said that do not feed a live cause your snake will die. And always judge me feed a live. How annoying!?
Can anyone tell me the true of it !??? Plz!!!

Hey Daji,

Please stop blackmailing me over here.

First of all, I have been feeding lives too, I feed my baby ball pythons with live mice.
what I am saying is pre-kill and frozen are better food source in Hong Kong due to live rodents is relatively hard to find over here. I have Never !! said anything about feeding live will kill your snake, that is a stupid statement and you are the one who making it up in here ! What I said was live rodents might cause injury on your snakes ! Especially jumbo rats !!

Regarding the snake death, I never said it was caused by feeding live !!!!! Please don't pretend you can't read Chinese, I said it died after eating a huge meal !!!! A keeper in Hong Kong fed that snake a jumbo rat. we brought the corps to the vet, the vet said it died of internal bleeding.

Do not lie ! and cut and paste responses from this great forum and stick it back into the Hong Kong forum and treat it as supporting statements !!!

You can't hide from what you are doing !! We have Google now !

For guys over here, sorry for all the nonsense.

[Annie]

He said the ball not suitable to feed lager rat before
cause the rat claw will damage the snake internal organs ;

LOL! That's a real joke! Not to say: pure BS!
Come on, a dead rat can't move his legs to claw at the snake's innards! And when a snake eats a rat, the legs fold backward along the sides of the rat's body and just slide in smoothly along with the rest. They can't ever damage the internal organs.

Saying that the limbs will protrude and scratch the snake's digestive tube is like pretending the hair would stand up and backward on the rat's back to prevent the snake from swallowing its prey! Totally impossible and ludicrous.

Let me guess what is his interest in making people believe such a story...
1- He makes more profit selling more mice or smaller rats than large ones.
2- He has a hard time getting large rats and thus prefers selling small ones.
4- He is afraid of large rodents and thus prefers selling small ones.
3- Errr... Can't fathom any more ideas, but this is still ridiculous and smelly.
Personally, I'd be inclined to think this fairytale has to do with money/profit.

***For your own sake, never buy from this person because he is shameless and very dishonest and would most certainly not have any qualms with selling you anything, including very bad stuff, to make a profit.***

About the dead snake: I have seen a lot of pictures of snakes that have been bitten by a rat, including pretty extensive wounds. Some people like to put them on my hometown's reptile forum. You can find many such pictures on Google Images. These wounds look like the rat has chewed at the snake's skin, exposing the flesh on a more or less large surface.

This snake is nothing like that. It has a disproportionately thin, outstreched neck, that's already weird in itself. There is no flesh wound that we can see and there is something lookind like a bloody discharge near the vent. This doesn't look at all like a flesh wound, but rather like some kind of diarrhea, or the release of the gut that happens after death.

What a crappy story! (Sorry for the bad pun).

[johnloon]

No I don't think that's what happened. If a snake would die from being fed live ALL of my snakes should be dead many many times over. Do wild snakes have a vending machine that holds out a frozen thawed rat??? Uhhh no they catch live prey. That death more then likely happened from bad husbandry ie too cold, over heat, bad shipping or disease of some sort. I looks to be a bit of blood there by the vent but I can't tell exactly what went on. I could understand if a live prey chewed through the snake fataly injuring it but I see no evidence of trauma. Beyond the bit of blood there. A snake that gets live prey even once won't die from it unless it's too large of a meal and ruptures something or impacts them and they die a month or two later of sepsis. Most snakes unless they are starving will turn away a huge meal or not be able to swallow it. And that can happen with frozen thawed as well so thats not just a live issue. That's knowing what size prey your snake should be on. Which in turn is a husbandry issue. Don't let this idiot tell you otherwise. Bring this forum to him. Let him get on and explain his reasoning. But to me it just looks like he wants to make $ off of people by selling them frozen. And thats a slimy thing to do. He's lying. I have over 40 ball pythons and every single one eats live and some have eaten live their whole lives.

Hi Homegrownscales,

I appreciate your comments, please understand that Daji is not fully expressing what I said in the Hong Kong forum. I recommend feeding frozen mainly due the availability over here. We do not have big and reputable rodent breeders like the ones in US, so frozen gives us a more stable food source. Also, I said that feeding live big rats might caused injury to your snakes if unattended. So I suggest that for the snake which eat lives only, a pre-kill rodents might be a better idea.

The snake that died belongs to my friend, it died at the night after swallowing a hugh meal. I did bring the corpus to the vet, and vet said it was died due to internal bleeding...so we guess the jumbo rat nails might have punctured it's internal organs.....The snake wasn't killed by live rats !! Daji is making this up and she wants to post your reply and use it on the Hong Kong forum.

Daji you can't hide now.... !

[daji_]

You are LIE again! I remember that you feed the frozen to the baby ball python! Maybe you lie all the time so you forget what you post before! You say the ball python net keeper not professional ! Ok ,that's fine, you change your mind and say you feed the live mice to the baby! I will copy what you say in here!

[johnloon]

You are LIE again! I remember that you feed the frozen to the baby ball python! Maybe you lie all the time so you forget what you post before! You say the ball python net keeper not professional ! Ok ,that's fine, you change your mind and say you feed the live mice to the baby! I will copy what you say in here!

My god....

I feed live rat pup, fuzzy and mice to babies, I also feed frozen to babies if they have good feeding response!..and then I start switching them to bigger frozen as they gradually takes larger meals.

Do not accuse me of being irrespecutful to comments by the forum members here. I treasure all comments and I enjoy sharing ideas with others.

Please be sensible and share your views clearly and honestly.
Please do not make anything up...otherwise it makes the whole discussion pointless.....