Hidden gene lesser????

[MKHerps]

Well the only people that know the truth are : The staff at NERD,(and that is questionable), and the select few that have produced them outside of NERDs facility.

I bought a HG woma granite yb from NERD in Feburary, along with a lesser. I talked alot with Andy from NERD about some of the projects going with the Hg woma.

If you look at NERDs collection page you will see two snakes( woma x lesser & a soulsucker 2.0). NERD first produced the woma lesser, which most call the soulsucker. Then somewhere along the way bred a woma lesser to a weird looking WC female. The woma lesser in this clutch looked different and this is the soulsucker 2.0.

They are both about the same, Hg woma x Lesser. You can reproduce it just like a pewter, bumblebee, etc. when bred to normals.

Lessers are lesseres there is not any HG that make some different. Before they were thought to be the key to producing Platinums, but we now know it is actually the normal siblings that hold the power. To make Platniums you need the normal sibling(Het Daddy) bred to either a Platnium(Pladdy Daddy),Lesser,or Butter and you will produce Platniums,Lessers,and Het Daddys. If you bred a Pladdy Daddy to a Normal( non Het Daddy) then you will get Lessers and Normals(Het Daddy). This Daddy gene acts like the Specter gene. With the Specter gene you have to cross it with the Yellowbelly gene to make SuperStripes. It will not reproduce itself when bred to Normals. With Platniums you need the Lesser or Platnium(Pladdy Daddy) x with the Normal siblings(Het Daddy).

So Lessers are Lessers, they are not Platniums they are Lessers. They are needed to make Platniums but the secret was in the Normals all along. So dont be fooled by people saying they have HG Lessers. All Lessers originated from NERD's, and RDR's Pladdy Daddys. Plus the occasional import of Lessers from the wild.

Ralph Davis actually this year produced a Pladdy Daddy by breeding Pladdy Daddy to a WC Normal female. It should have only produced Lessers and Nomals(Het Daddy), but this WC female was a gene carrier of the Pladdy Daddy complex. So there are other Platniums out there in the wild and who knows what your normal Balls hold.

[RandyRemington]

To make Platniums you need the normal sibling(Het Daddy) bred to either a Platnium(Pladdy Daddy),Lesser,or Butter and you will produce Platniums,Lessers,and Het Daddys.

Probably just an omission but here is an example of how hard it's going to be to keep track of the hidden gene. You can still produce normal normals (i.e. not hidden gene at all) unless one of the parents is platy or homozygous hidden. So the normal looking babies from hidden (aka normal sibling) X lesser breeding would only be 50% chance hidden carriers.

RDR did produce a normal looking female from platy X platy a few years back that should have been a 100% homozygous hidden so you can even have percentage possible homozygous with this normal looking mutation. Early on RDR did a lot of hidden X hidden (the het version offspring of the original platy) that produced a bunch of 25% chance homozygous hidden babies that would also be 50% chance regular het hiddens like their parents and only 25% chance real normals.

[Oxylepy]

Thanks for telling me someone produced a Hom Daddy. I was wondering if anyone had tried as it's fairly easy if you have 1.1 platinums/butter daddies.

[Its Behind You]

[QUOTE=RandyRemington;1381106]Probably just an omission but here is an example of how hard it's going to be to keep track of the hidden gene.

Very good Point. So does this prove for example then that a wild platinum or other wild morph, doesnt necessarily live in a secluded community. Doesnt this then prove that the 'normal normals' are mixing with the other morphs like the platinums to produce normal looking gene carriers?

So doesnt this mean that even without mans intervention, double gene, and single gene animals may have evolved into the spectrum of colour we have today among the ball python morphs.

Also doesnt this mean that many, many more unusual ball pythons (new morphs in some cases), will continue to appear. On shipments etc.?

[RandyRemington]

Yes, I believe the original platy was a wild bred combo. We don't know how common the hidden gene is as so far it only shows up really well in lesser/butter. So might not be that far out there to make the platy combo compared to combo of two unrelated albino hets to make an albino.

By "normal normal" I meant wild type as opposed to the hiddens that look normal but really have a mutant allele even though it doesn't show by it's self.

Hard to know how many more surprises Africa has for us. I think a good part of the ball python diversity is in the numbers. If we collected 150k corn snake eggs from the wild each year we might hatch out a lot of odd mutants there too. If something where to change to decrease the wild collection it would probably impact new morph discovery. Even staying steady I would think the number of new morphs has to be decreasing slowly as so many have already been seen.

[Kevin_Hornby]

I don't recall seeing them sold in the US at all at any price.

Ralph has Daddy's and Het Daddy's posted for sale this year.

http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/cu...02-biglist.asp

You can still produce normal normals (i.e. not hidden gene at all) unless one of the parents is platy or homozygous hidden. So the normal looking babies from hidden (aka normal sibling) X lesser breeding would only be 50% chance hidden carriers.

Your other option is to breed the Hidden/Possible hidden to a lucy, then all babies would be either Daddy or Lesser/Butter

[Its Behind You]

I might be wrong here...

I dont see much of the platinum to be honest. I mean i have never heard of platinum clowns, pastels, spiders etc.....have they been done

I understand Ralph spent alot of time producing more Platinums from siblings etc, but i have never heard of any speak of a platinum pastel, or spider etc?

I may be wrong here, i mean he probably has done them, after all it is Ralph Davis, he has so much....but as idont go on kingsnake i dont wether these have actually been done?