Rate this bumblebee.

[broadude]

I'll start by standing by Robin on the ugly dog turd brown pastels. I've seen some pastels that are as brown as as a dark normal. That to me is an ugly pastel. Robin stated her pastel is an 07 and has posted pics of him. That animal is at least 2 years old. My pastel is from July of 08, right over 18 months now.

When I got into this hobby, I got my Pastel from Albey. Then, I shopped on KS and other websites for what I had the money for at the time, then after talking to Albey about this concept, it dawned on me. Better looking animals for the most part, cost more and make better looking babies. 4 of my 5 snakes have come from Albey, since when I was shopping for my animals, he had the best examples of the morphs I was looking for. Sure they may have cost me a bit extra, but they were what I wanted.

On your statement about coats, I believe that you are comparing apples to oranges. Material goods are different from animals. I do think that people that have the best animals in looks AND health can charge a premium, because that's what the people who are truly serious about that hobby want. If that's not worth it to you, or you want to charge a lower price for a premium animal, then that's your prerogative.

With your statement that all animals will brown out unless crossed with a clean up gene. I really can't say anything, because it depends on your definition of brown out. My pastel at 1400+ g is still yellow. A bit more tan than he was at 120 g, but his yellow is still prominent.

A little story...

I went to the Columbia repticon show...Spring of last year. I was looking at this table and a guy had a good looking Caramel. All of his pastels were BROWN and they were still small(200-300 g). I told him that I wish I had the money to purchase the Caramel, but that I was paying off a Pewter. He asked what I paid for it and I told him $1500. He claimed I was getting ripped off. Then I told him that it was from March of 08 and was almost 700 g. He still claimed a rip. I respectfully disagreed and walked off. This pewter was worth the $ to me because I knew that it was a fantastic looking animal and was eating well.

The moral of the story is, if you don't want to get quality animals, then don't pay for them. Pay that $50 for a Wild Type looking Pastel, but don't complain when I tell you that I don't think it looks good.


Pictures of the 2 snakes of mine that I mentioned.

I do happen to agree that some animals look better than others. Get back to me when the animal is older. It is wonderful when they stay a vibrant color for a long time, but I haven't seen the animal that has retained his/her color over a period of years (it varies) regardless of whom the animal came from?

Sorry about the apples and oranges comparison..I was actually trying to say that a high price does not necessarily mean an animal is quality. Neither does having a low price mean that an animal is not quality. I do agree that quality is worth paying for.

[JAMills]

Pictures of the 2 snakes of mine that I mentioned.

Dreese those are some very nice looking animals

[Beardedragon]

Sorry - but I have to disagree with YOU. That thinking is exactly why there are so many ugly dog turd brown pastels out there that look like normals? Because too many breeders cared more about producing as many pastels as they could, regardless of selectively breeding them to the brightest and nicest normals that they could.

We all know that piebald level of white is random and doesn't have anything to do with selective breeding. It's a pattern mutation.

But color mutations absolutely can be enhanced by working with the best quality animals that you can.

I paid premium dollars for my pastel back in 2006, and he was worth every dime. I've been offered a lot of money since then for him and have turned down every offer.



I selectively bred him to one of my lightest females and produced this girl - who's brighter than he is.



You can't convince me that selective breeding is a wasted effort. It may actually be more ***gasp*** WORK to selectively breed. But my goals are to produce the nicest babies that I can, because that's what I want in my collection.

Ask some of my customers if they had to sacrifice health or feeding issues to get a quality animal. I can't think of a single one who hasn't had their animals pounding food just as hard as they did with me. I don't let them go until they're pounding food.

If you are more concerned with just getting the gene to say you have a pastel (or any other morph) and don't care how ugly it is - more power to you!

Yeah, I'm a wee bit passionate about producing selectively bred quality animals.

To the OP - he may brown out more - but I don't think by a lot. It's a fantastic looking animal!

That is just superficial if you ask me. No one can guranteed have the best morph produced.

x 1000

I was thinking of your pastel Robin this whole thread before you posted

And I have seen him in person ( And is this the baby that your brough to the GA show last year?) And if you think the pictures show good looking But anyways, his babys are BRIGHT yellow, and by far the best I have ever seen. They are

[broadude]

The Pastels posted are absolutely stunning. Do/would either of you give a guarantee that Pastels produced by these animals will not brown out to your customers?

Just asking...

[JAMills]

The Pastels posted are absolutely stunning. Do/would either of you give a guarantee that Pastels produced by these animals will not brown out to your customers?

Just asking...

See, I don't understand why everyone goes back to the guarantee thing.

I would never guarantee the looks of Possible offspring.

Though I would have no problem telling someone that if they get really nice looking parents they have a better shot at producing really nice babies than starting with ugly parents.

[broadude]

See, I don't understand why everyone goes back to the guarantee thing.

I would never guarantee the looks of Possible offspring.

Though I would have no problem telling someone that if they get really nice looking parents they have a better shot at producing really nice babies than starting with ugly parents.

Don't want a "guarantee." I am quite confident that normal Pastels WILL brown out regardless of how bright they are as hatchlings and how long they retain the color (it's just a matter of degree).

Just wanted it clear that getting the brightest color baby ever from the brightest color parents ever that have retained their colors for the longest is NOT a guarantee that the hatchlings or the parents will keep those colors...

However much I wish it were.

[rabernet]

The Pastels posted are absolutely stunning. Do/would either of you give a guarantee that Pastels produced by these animals will not brown out to your customers?

Just asking...

I'm trying to understand what your point is? That selective breeding is pointless?

Would I guarantee that they're not going to brown out over 30 years time? Of course not. But at three and a half years old, Winston still gets gasps when people see him in person (at 2000 grams). He is starting to get a little brown on top, but his yellow still is stunning.

If I'm not going to selectively breed with the goal to produce nicer and nicer animals, then I'm not going to breed at all - what's the point? Just to produce animals with certain genes just because?

[Mitch21]

If I'm not going to selectively breed with the goal to produce nicer and nicer animals, then I'm not going to breed at all - what's the point? Just to produce animals with certain genes just because?

True dat home fries...

[dreese88]

Dreese those are some very nice looking animals

Hopefully, the 2 male and 4 female sterlings they give me will be even more fire!

[JAMills]

Hopefully, the 2 male and 4 female sterlings they give me will be even more fire!

May the Ball-Python Gods be on your side for those odds...