Quote Originally Posted by broadude View Post
IMO, there are no "ugly dog turd brown " Pastels, but if I accepted the discription, then I would have to say that we have ugly dog turd brown Pastels out because breeders bred so many and instead of eliminating those that they considered subpar, they dumped them on wholesalers who in turn dumped them on the public, who being excited about finally being able to afford the Pastels, promptly turned around and continued the cycle (to try and get their "investment" back. So, now...we have what some want to claim as "subpar" animals to justify having a hefty price tag on an animal that WILL brown out with age, some just brown out sooner.

Again imo, trying to hook price to looks and claim quality is going to be a losing battle as the consumer gets more savvy. I have brought a coat from Walmart for my grandkids that has lasted longer than one from Neiman Marcus.

The simple truth about BPs (again in my opinion) is unless they are crossed with a Fire or Vanilla or one of the "lightening" morphs, they will brown out with age. Maybe not fast, but they will brown out.

I'll start by standing by Robin on the ugly dog turd brown pastels. I've seen some pastels that are as brown as as a dark normal. That to me is an ugly pastel. Robin stated her pastel is an 07 and has posted pics of him. That animal is at least 2 years old. My pastel is from July of 08, right over 18 months now.

When I got into this hobby, I got my Pastel from Albey. Then, I shopped on KS and other websites for what I had the money for at the time, then after talking to Albey about this concept, it dawned on me. Better looking animals for the most part, cost more and make better looking babies. 4 of my 5 snakes have come from Albey, since when I was shopping for my animals, he had the best examples of the morphs I was looking for. Sure they may have cost me a bit extra, but they were what I wanted.

On your statement about coats, I believe that you are comparing apples to oranges. Material goods are different from animals. I do think that people that have the best animals in looks AND health can charge a premium, because that's what the people who are truly serious about that hobby want. If that's not worth it to you, or you want to charge a lower price for a premium animal, then that's your prerogative.

With your statement that all animals will brown out unless crossed with a clean up gene. I really can't say anything, because it depends on your definition of brown out. My pastel at 1400+ g is still yellow. A bit more tan than he was at 120 g, but his yellow is still prominent.

A little story...

I went to the Columbia repticon show...Spring of last year. I was looking at this table and a guy had a good looking Caramel. All of his pastels were BROWN and they were still small(200-300 g). I told him that I wish I had the money to purchase the Caramel, but that I was paying off a Pewter. He asked what I paid for it and I told him $1500. He claimed I was getting ripped off. Then I told him that it was from March of 08 and was almost 700 g. He still claimed a rip. I respectfully disagreed and walked off. This pewter was worth the $ to me because I knew that it was a fantastic looking animal and was eating well.

The moral of the story is, if you don't want to get quality animals, then don't pay for them. Pay that $50 for a Wild Type looking Pastel, but don't complain when I tell you that I don't think it looks good.


Pictures of the 2 snakes of mine that I mentioned.