PAM ripped me off?

[TheVipersHouse]

This is a terrible idea and potentially harmful. Just because YOU have done it and not killed any snakes yet doesn't make it safe. This also won't eliminate eggs from producing because it gets under the scales. That makes NO sense whatsoever. As far as I am aware, no product on the market kills mite eggs. Not even PAM. The benefit of PAM is that it has over 30 days of residual action which will kill the new mites that hatch. This is nearly as ridiculous as your one in a million multiple sire comment. If someone tries this on your recommendation and kills their snake, what will your response be then?

listen here buddy, it has no affect on snakes what so ever , its not harmful to snakes in anyway . im not the only person who uses this technique many people do , so my suggestion to you is be quiet.

[jglass38]

listen here buddy , it has no affect on snakes what so ever , its not harmful to snakes in anyway . im not the only person who uses this technique many people do , so my suggestion to you is be quiet.

As eloquent as that was, my previous points stand. Have you done years of testing and research? Can you say for certain that there are no long term effects? Have you calculated how much is safe and how much becomes a danger to the animal? See, what you fail to grasp is that these are living creatures. Do whatever you want with your own animals but when it comes to making recommendations to others without your wealth of knowledge and experience, it's best to advise them to stick to products that are tested and safe for use on reptiles.

[TheVipersHouse]

As eloquent as that was, my previous points stand. Have you done years of testing and research? Can you say for certain that there are no long term effects? Have you calculated how much is safe and how much becomes a danger to the animal? See, what you fail to grasp is that these are living creatures. Do whatever you want with your own animals but when it comes to making recommendations to others without your wealth of knowledge and experience, it's best to advise them to stick to products that are tested and safe for use on reptiles.

TESTING: over 10 Years and not 1 death or illness related to using it .
from my collection or any other collection that uses this treatment .
i didnt make the treatment up it was recommended by reptile vet .
what you fail to grasp is im not the only person who uses this method and its been passed around before me , its safe and doesnt have no Ill affects on snakes .
so get your ass off your high horse and accept the fact there are other methods just as good if not better and safer then your PAM theory .
just like i learned that double sired snakes happen more common then i was informed , i was always taught and read that the genetics of it was a long shot (1 in a million was more an example of how rare it happens) .but thats got nothing to do with this topic ..

it was passed to me just as i have passed it to 100's of people and no one has ever had an issue of sick or death . so yes i do know what im saying from years of usage and word of mouth by others who use it ..

[jglass38]

TESTING: over 10 Years and not 1 death or illness related to using it .
from my collection or any other collection that uses this treatment .
i didnt make the treatment up it was recommended by reptile vet .
what you fail to grasp is im not the only person who uses this method and its been passed around before me , its safe and doesnt have no Ill affects on snakes .
so get your ass off your high horse and accept the fact there are other methods just as good if not better and safer then your PAM theory .
just like i learned that double sired snakes happen more common then i was informed , i was always taught and read that the genetics of it was a long shot (1 in a million was more an example of how rare it happens) .but thats got nothing to do with this topic ..

it was passed to me just as i have passed it to 100's of people and no one has ever had an issue of sick or death . so yes i do know what im saying from years of usage and word of mouth by others who use it ..

This is going nowhere. Let me ask you, are all these other people you know who use it importers? If so then I see why they would want would to use the cheapest product possible to get the mites of the animals they want to turn around and ship out to customers. Most people who have a small collection at home aren't bringing in new, imported animals regularly and a can of PAM (remember, that's the only product approved for use with reptiles) will last them YEARS. If even the potential for harming an animal isn't enough to persuade someone spend $20 on a can of PAM, how much do they really care about the health of their animals? The fact is, you really don't know what happens to the animals after they leave your facility. You haven't put money into research and development. You haven't done any scientific tests. My support of the use of PAM isn't a theory. I'll just have to continue recommending what I know is safe because I am not willing to have the death of someone else's animals on my conscience.

[TheVipersHouse]

This is going nowhere. Let me ask you, are all these other people you know who use it importers? If so then I see why they would want would to use the cheapest product possible to get the mites of the animals they want to turn around and ship out to customers. Most people who have a small collection at home aren't bringing in new, imported animals regularly and a can of PAM (remember, that's the only product approved for use with reptiles) will last them YEARS. If even the potential for harming an animal isn't enough to persuade someone spend $20 on a can of PAM, how much do they really care about the health of their animals? The fact is, you really don't know what happens to the animals after they leave your facility. You haven't put money into research and development. You haven't done any scientific tests. My support of the use of PAM isn't a theory. I'll just have to continue recommending what I know is safe because I am not willing to have the death of someone else's animals on my conscience.

nope not importers . private breeders use it
not 1 death in over 10 years that i have been using it on my personal collection and animals i sell or anyone else that uses it , not to mention the years its been used before i started using it .
so you keep using your stuff and telling people and i will as well cause the method i use does the job as well as PAM if not better. AND is completely safe for snakes .

[muddoc]

i got your problem fix right here
go to a store like walmart or a pet store

get HARTZ FLEA & TICK POWDER for CATS

put the snakes infected in their own bag and dump a good coating onto the snake , tie off the bag leave in over night .
then clean your cages /tubs whatever you use . and sprinkle some in with your substrate . the next day look over the snake to make sure all are dead and place snake back in its cage .

this way even works on eliminating eggs from producing cause it gets under the scales .

1 night in a bag an all mites on snake are dead ..

i use it religously and i dont use anything else and i dont have out breaks .
and its perfectly harmless to the snakes ..

I would say that if you use it religiously, then it is not very effective. In keeping snakes for 7 years, I have only had to treat mites twice, both times from bringing in snakes from someone else. If you don't have outbrakes, then why are you using it religiously? I'm not busting your chops, I am just confused.

Equate Bedding Spray, Walmart.


Ok once again here we go.

Go to Walmart and buy Equate Bedding Spray

Provent a mite ingredients are 99.5% and .5% Permethrin

Equate Bedding spray has the exact same amount of permethrin and Inert ingredients. The can is 4$

I have used it for many years. It works, and there isnt anything better IMO.

PLEEEEEASE follow these instructions

Remove snake from cage
Remove water from cage
Spray the spray all around the cage(not the snake or water), do not try to soak the cage, not necessary.
Leave the snake and water out for an Hour(actually a lot less but I am extra cautious)
Put snake and water back in and repeat in 30 days.....odds are the second treatment wont be needed. You will not see mites again.

Permethrin will kill snakes when airborn......so use caution.

Good Luck

As Jamie stated, the amount of Permethrin is equivalent in PAM and Equate, however, the 99.5% of inert chemicals is not listed on either can, and could very well be drastically different. With that said, I have never used PAM. I have been very successful at treating mites with Equate, and currently have a can of BKII that I use as a preventive measure when we treat cages of animals that we have brought to a show.

This is going nowhere. Let me ask you, are all these other people you know who use it importers? If so then I see why they would want would to use the cheapest product possible to get the mites of the animals they want to turn around and ship out to customers. Most people who have a small collection at home aren't bringing in new, imported animals regularly and a can of PAM (remember, that's the only product approved for use with reptiles) will last them YEARS. If even the potential for harming an animal isn't enough to persuade someone spend $20 on a can of PAM, how much do they really care about the health of their animals? The fact is, you really don't know what happens to the animals after they leave your facility. You haven't put money into research and development. You haven't done any scientific tests. My support of the use of PAM isn't a theory. I'll just have to continue recommending what I know is safe because I am not willing to have the death of someone else's animals on my conscience.

Jamie,
I just wanted to clarify that I don't think a can of PAM will last for YEARS. I say this because I remember the shelf life of PAM being 1 year. However, I couldn't find the shelf life on the site to confirm this. Maybe you or someone else has inquired about shelf life before and could answer that question for us.

[jglass38]

Jamie,
I just wanted to clarify that I don't think a can of PAM will last for YEARS. I say this because I remember the shelf life of PAM being 1 year. However, I couldn't find the shelf life on the site to confirm this. Maybe you or someone else has inquired about shelf life before and could answer that question for us.

Tim,

In this thread where I quoted Bob Pound he mentions an average shelf life of 7 years.

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=71721

Jamie

[muddoc]

Tim,

In this thread where I quoted Bob Pound he mentions an average shelf life of 7 years.

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=71721

Jamie

Sweet Bro. I stand corrected.

[TheVipersHouse]

I would say that if you use it religiously, then it is not very effective. In keeping snakes for 7 years, I have only had to treat mites twice, both times from bringing in snakes from someone else. If you don't have outbrakes, then why are you using it religiously? I'm not busting your chops, I am just confused.

i use it religously to the fact that i wont use anything else because of how well it works and i use it on any snake i bring into my collection as a preventive .

when i quaratine my animlas they get 1 treatment with the powder
and then they stay quarantined for a time period before coming into my collection .


and because of this i dont have outbreaks in my collection

sorry to confuse you muddoc

[Faber]

hahahaha yea it was late last night, idk why i thought you met a plastic bag. and my point here is that im out $20 and can't get a cant of PAM in my state, jerrasimite is garbage, and my snake has mites, i would love to get it taken care of today. Also i noticed some breeders have used equate and still live by it.