Most doctile snakes? I think not.

Ok, so im on BP number two. Both snakes i've owned have always seemed aggressive, the one i have now just hissed at me. He/She (too young to tell) has been in my care for two weeks, i've fed it once. Itold my friends last night that they're nice snakes and never bite (knowing otherwise) to see if i just lost confidence. Sure enough they held Faber (named after WEC fighter Urijah Faber), and i wouldn't say the snake was tame, but it didn't seem as aggressive as usual. I've been petting it for a couple minutes a day but never lifted it except for once to move him/her to its feeding tub. I just wanna know how to get it to be like my other friends (who always lucked out) and be more afraid then aggressive, his snakes always went in a ball when i would hold them and then stay balled up for a while, mine turns and faces me in strike position, and today hissed.

Hissing is not aggression. It's acting as though it's scared and trying the only way that it knows how to try to scare you away. Many of mine hiss as well and I go "yeah, yeah - you're big and scarey, now come here!"

You may also wish to check your set-up - if it is too big and open, that would cause your snake(s) to feel insecure as well.

I don't "pet" any of mine, I just pick them up. If they are looking like they are in strike position, I simply lightly touch them on the top of their head with a water bottle or something similar, and that snaps them out of it, and cause them to duck their heads.

Remember that these are not domesticated animals, they have all the instincts of self preservation as their wild cousins.

Hi,

Well there are a couple of things to try. But by far the main one is help the snake feel more secure and less threatened. :)

This can include tips such as not reaching down from above to pick the snake up but letting it see you coming and trying to come from the side instead. And pay attention to how you reach for it - quick movements or slow, jerky tentative ones can actually provoke the snake into thinking it is about to be attacked. :gj:

You can change the tank setup to give it more/ better hiding spots and cover the back and sides - but we would really need more details of your setup to see what could be done with that.

Letting the snake settle in when you first get it is probably the step most people forget. I like to let it eat three meals in a row before trying to really handle it much but most people just wait a week.

When you do handle it try and avoid doing anything that makes it a frightening experience for the snake. So no sudden movements and keep the handling session short at first - say 5 or ten minutes then put it back in its tank.

Don't handle every day at first and never for the two days after feeding at all.

They usually do settle down quite quickly but you do also just get some that don't like handling. My largest female still poops herself (figuratively) whenever I open the tub and will try to run for the first minute or so until she realises nothing bad is happening. Every time it's the same performance. :rolleyes:

The others quite frankly ignore me when I reach in and pet them but seem to tolerate being lifted with the same indifferance. :rolleyes:


dr del

Yea those are all things i did with big snakes when i was younger, Even the hissing thing, my friends dad owned a pet store and had a few full grown and the female would hiss and he said to disregard it, but i was just surprised when i got a bp that doesn't ball. Um as far as the enclosure goes, its 110 gallon, but not to open. Ill work on some pictures. hmm.. oh yea and he's skiddish of his head like most, i went to pet him close to his head, upper-neck region and he flinched which i expected in a way, but he doesn't duck his head he faces and stares, typically thier head shakes a little before they strike but my last snake just bit me not even cocked back once, and im thinkin i might just have a bad-case of losing alllllll of the confidence i once had, hell when i was little i even once stuck my hand in a tank with about 4 agressive B-P's just so i could hold the big snake (hell of a deal right?) im sure it was entertaining.

110g is a bit too big for a ball python. Most people will recommend a 20-30g at most.

Very few of my 40+ ball pythons ball up. A 110 gallon tank is HUGE, and it sounds to me that it's probably very stressed.

idk i had my other snake in a 55 and it seemed kinda cramped for him, i wanted one that he could atleast slither around in and not touch both ends at once, and i kinda inherited an awesome 110 gallon with a stand and thats a deal you can't say no to. Well i have about a bajillion picture on my phone but for some reason they wont load right, so the picture im putting up was my set up before i added a vine, a cave, and a half-log

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/9029/babyfaberq.jpg

Yeah I think your husbandry may be a bit off or its just a little skittish right now. I have 27 snakes and only have issues with one whom I bought as an adult and was never handled. And being called the most docile is just a generalization of the whole species. There will always be an exception or two to the rule.

Hi,

I understand the desire to give them more space - but it can actually make nervous ones even more scared and thus defensive.

Half logs don't really make the best hides for them either I'm afraid.

The ideal hides for them are totally dark, cramped and touch them on all sides at once.

They don't need to be expensive though as drip trays etc ar perfect and cost almost nothing and you just make a hole for them to get in and out of.

Judging from the picutre the tank looks open on all sides which might also make them nervous - you can use aquarium backing to cover one side and both ends and it looks quite attractive - and you can then put insulation round the outside to help keep the temps stable etc without making it look odd. :)

Which brings me to the next point - how do you keep the temps and humidity at the right levels in the tank?

That is generally the problems we get asked about most often.

What are the temps inside the hot and cool end hides and how are you measuring them?


dr del

My blackberry is actin up but heres another picture
[IMG]http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/3679/faber.jpg[/IMG]

I would not worry about the hissing, that's just a bluff, a little sigh to let you know his/her discomfort. Some of them, like my little banded nightmare, seem to never want to grow out of being an evil psychotic little snake no matter how you try. It doesn't bother me at all but it does urk many people, ESPECIALLY those who have just a snake or two intended as pets to be interacted with and handled regularly. Trust me, when I got my first snake, my cali king, I was not happy about the fact that his first instinct, being the glutton he was, was to try and eat me with all of his might. 7 years later, he still has not completely outgrown the urge to occasionally swallow a finger, or wrap around my wrist and try to kill it. But he's sweet, and I love him anyway.

In order to be successful at "taming" your snake, its best if you look at it while separating yourself from your emotional attachment to it. What I mean by that is, sometimes people tend to forget that snakes don't have emotional feelings, they do not "enjoy" our company, and they don't love us, or each other for that matter. They couldn't care less about us, except for the fact that they know we provide the food. To them, we are nothing more than a big, scary, stomping creature that COULD make them the next meal. They don't like being petted, They don't cuddle, when you pet them they don't understand what petting is, to them it's just some really annoying rubbing or tapping by some large potential predator (you or me). Instead of focusing on getting your snake to "like" you, like you would a dog or a cat, you have to instead attempt to get him to tolerate you. That is what snakes do, they tolerate us. maybe even accept our presence, only after being conditioned to understand that we benefit them (by providing food) as opposed to their instinct, which is that we are a potential predator. That's why when baby snakes hatch, they are often incredibly defensive and shy but soon lose it after a few feedings. They no longer fear you. They are creatures of pure instinct that react to stimuli, and while it's fun to add anthropomorphic feelings when we talk about our snakes and even while we interact with them, to be successful at keeping and understanding them completely we have to separate ourselves from that for the benefit (and mental and physical health) of the snakes.

I hope my rambling made some bit of sense... it does to me, but sometimes I get carried away and people misinterpret my ideas :D

Well no i have a pretty sick cave from petsmart thats a great size, and i currently have two small uth, and a heating lamp, but since i have an upstairs bed room i sometimes unplus one of the heat pads, and shut off the lamp because i dont want it about 90, also i have the moss in there thats green under good humidity and brown under decent humidity, and ill spray that about 3 sprays 2-3 times a day to keep the temps moderate, i been keeping it about 80-85 though lately cause i think my snake likes it a little cooler because his cold side is about 80 and he still stays in the water dish, but i doubt its cause of mites, i think its just very hot for him.

His one hide on the hot side is similar to the smaller one in this picture http://www.petsmart.com/product/inde...ductId=2752667

I also wanted a 110 gallon cause i know he's gonna reach like 5 foot so i figred i should invest early

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Originally Posted by Faber

I also wanted a 110 gallon cause i know he's gonna reach like 5 foot so i figred i should invest early

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110G seems a little excessive. You mentions you keep it in the 80's but then you said he stays in the water bowl all the time. You may want to check for mites again. Get a while water dish and let his soak like normal and check for little black specks in the bottom of the bowl after a day or two. 80's should be more then comfortable for them.

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Originally Posted by Faber

I also wanted a 110 gallon cause i know he's gonna reach like 5 foot so i figred i should invest early

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Even full grown BPs don't need 110g. Read up on the caresheets on here.

Then idk what a BP would do with all that space in Africa.

Heh,

Find a rodent burrow or termite mound in it and hide in a small dark place. :P

Seriously though, I know it sounds counter-intuitive but they really do tend to do better in smaller enclosures - or at least ones with loads of small, dark, cramped hiding places.

Every snake reacts differently but there are definately some that just feel exposed in larger enclosures.


dr del

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Originally Posted by Faber

Then idk what a BP would do with all that space in Africa.

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They hide out in termite mounds and rodent burrows about the size of tub that many of us use.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Faber

Then idk what a BP would do with all that space in Africa.

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Well you have to think they hide in a burrow 90% of the time and only venture out when hungry or for breeding purposes. Well in a captive environment they no longer need this large expanse of space. I had a 65g for a while when I first started but my snake never left her hide except for water or food so I switched over to racks as my collection grew and space shrank lol. Its up to you but just add lots of different hides and ground cover and im sure you will be fine. also cover about 80%of the screen top with tape or a trash bag to help with humidity and lose the heat lamp just gonna dry out the tank faster. Hope this helps.

Yea when i brought him home i was going to put him in a ten or twenty long enclosure to save on bedding too but it would have been a pain in the ass bigger than a retec to move my tank and idk where i would even put it, maybe when i clean his cage again ill move him to a 20L, but his 110 has alot of dark hiding places, his favorite is widged between the half-log and the glass for some reason, i just attemped to life him again but he was wedged and i didn't wanna hurt him being so young.

Yea i cover like 85% of the mesh top on account of my old snake had a respitory infection :-( so now i do it to limit to dust in the tank.

btw sg1 your snake is SICK!!

Hi,

The wedged thing is the touching on all sides thing we mentioned earlier when talking about the best type of hides.

Ironically they can also use their waterbowls for the same reason.

What size is he?

Try getting a couple of the terracotts drip trays for putting under flowerpots and chip an entrance hole in one side and put one on each side. The low profile means it feels nice and snug for the snake. :)


dr del

He's tiny, i bought him as a baby about 2-3 weeks ago, when he was balled up in the container i bought him in he was balled up small enough to fit in my palm and not touch my fingers, i just set his whole packaging in his new tank because i was afraid i might break ribs by picking him up.

Hey dude... i think that you and I are on the same thought waves..... I have my baby in a 55 gallon tank..... I had it in the 10 gallon tank (like the caresheets say) and he had no room to roam once it became night time.... I felt so bad to have him cramped up in that little tank... Now he is in the 55 gallon and loves having the room to move about at night. And I am more compfortable that he is growing and building muscles from actually being able to move around. My boyfriend has a three yr old female that does not move around very much (went by the care sheets) and her muscles are actually pretty weak from never working or building them.

Thats exactly what im thinkin, they like to roam at night and i don't wanna hold him down, i mean he's already in captivity how much worse can it get? hahaha

However, you guys are putting mammalian desires on a reptile. Just because YOU might like more space, doesn't mean that they do. My adults that are in tubs are VERY strong - not weak at all.

If you continue to have problems with him - at least be open to considering some of the suggestions given to you by experienced keepers. :)

lol no im listenin to you guys for sure, im not a new owner, i just haven't had a baby in a whileeeeeeeeee, but yea he's got plenty of hides and everything but he also loves to climb so i didnt want a small tank with not alot to climb on, and most of my stuff wouldn't fit in a ten gallon now, but it might in the 20L. Idk i might just have to "Grow some" and get chewed up, i guess thats one thing everyone agree's on, just the last time i got bit i gave the snake the benifit of the doubt and as he was going around my hand like normal he just sank his teeth in, so i got kinda discouraged. I'm just going to have to kinda ignore common feelings. I just don't want him/her to be biting people when its 4-5 feet, or even now because im positive i can handle it but idk how others may react. Everyone says they can handle it, but they've never faced the situation. I'm more worried about the snake hurting him/herself on me, instead of vice versa.

I have my snake in an above what is reccomended size tub. A 100L which I believe equals about 36 gallons. I provide two hides, a big half log which she loves to crawl from one hide to the other under...and what I wanted to reccommend to you is fake shrubbery. Since I have her in a larger enclosure, I put in the fake plants to add more security and hiding abilities.

Yea i thought about that. i also have a jungle gym in there that occupies alot of space.

guys whether or not snakes thrive in smaller spaces, you simply cannot deny that if you use a large enclosure RIGHT, as in providing what the snake needs, just on a larger scale, and more of it, there is NO reason a larger that necessary cage won't work. Africa is just a really really large enclosure, full of small dark places to hide. It doesn't hurt them to have extra space, even if they won't use it most of the time. If a person prefers to house a snake in a larger-than-is-absolutely-neccesary-for-survival enclosure, and is still able to provide the snake everything it needs... really, what is the harm in that?! I am not saying snakes WANT more space, but there is no harm in providing it for them if it's used right. (Please don't get mad at me, I am just tired of seeing so many people brought down for wanting to keep their snakes in large roomy enclosures with a bit of freedom to do as they please, if they wish.) I understand that some people feel insulted when told that a rack system is not enough space, and feel the need to defend themselves with the reasoning that the snakes thrive, but still, if a person wants to provide their snake with a mini africa and has the means to do it without harming or freaking out the snake, let them! I already do it with several of my snakes, (who else puts a garter in a 75 gallon?!) and once we move I can assure you I will do it with more of them!

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Originally Posted by aSnakeLovinBabe

guys whether or not snakes thrive in smaller spaces, you simply cannot deny that if you use a large enclosure RIGHT, as in providing what the snake needs, just on a larger scale, and more of it, there is NO reason a larger that necessary cage won't work. Africa is just a really really large enclosure, full of small dark places to hide. It doesn't hurt them to have extra space, even if they won't use it most of the time. If a person prefers to house a snake in a larger-than-is-absolutely-neccesary-for-survival enclosure, and is still able to provide the snake everything it needs... really, what is the harm in that?! I am not saying snakes WANT more space, but there is no harm in providing it for them if it's used right. (Please don't get mad at me, I am just tired of seeing so many people brought down for wanting to keep their snakes in large roomy enclosures with a bit of freedom to do as they please, if they wish.) I understand that some people feel insulted when told that a rack system is not enough space, and feel the need to defend themselves with the reasoning that the snakes thrive, but still, if a person wants to provide their snake with a mini africa and has the means to do it without harming or freaking out the snake, let them! I already do it with several of my snakes, (who else puts a garter in a 75 gallon?!) and once we move I can assure you I will do it with more of them!

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No one "brought down" anyone in this thread at all. They just explained that his problems with his snake could be due to the size of his enclosure.

Okay, the issue in this thread is that your snake is aggressive. If you want to tame your baby snake, move it to a ten gallon. You might think they need to stretch out and climb around but trust me they don't. A bit of cruising in the night is fine but they don't need a lot of space for that. If you are concerned about exercise, think about how much exercise they get just from eating their food. Constricting that is like a total body workout for them.

The 110g is way to big. Period. If you want to keep it, get a snake that will be able to live in that sized tank healthily. From the sounds of your setup and the few pictures you have provided, a ball python will not thrive (or be docile for that matter) in that enclosure. It just won't happen.

Ball pythons (whether yours "likes to climb" or not) are GROUND dwelling snakes. They spend all of their time on the ground or underground. So putting them in this huge 2ft tall tank is really overkill. You still need to heat and cool that unused space accordingly and that takes a lot of stuff. Probably the only way to do it would be with lamps and those would KILL your humidity (which is also required for a ball python to survive).


As for your hides, think smaller. The smaller the better. I offer hides that my BPs don't fit in. They just curl up under them and basically wear them as hats. I can tell that they are content because they are not scared when I hold them and they have a very strong feeding response. Ditch the half logs.


If you want your baby to grow into a nice docile snake, get it out of the 110g and never put it back in there. The max (and this is only for a HUUUGE female) would be a 30g long. Or if you want to go the tub route, a 42qt tub. Once you move your snake to a smaller enclosure and fix your husbandry, give it a week of alone time. Don't handle him, feed him, and mess with his enclosure the least amount possible. After that, he should be much more content with his surroundings.

We are not trying to chew you out, you asked for help, and we provide :) Take the information given to you and apply it and you will see the results. We aren't making this stuff up. We do it because it works and it shows great results.

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Originally Posted by k2l3d4

Hey dude... i think that you and I are on the same thought waves..... I have my baby in a 55 gallon tank..... I had it in the 10 gallon tank (like the caresheets say) and he had no room to roam once it became night time.... I felt so bad to have him cramped up in that little tank... Now he is in the 55 gallon and loves having the room to move about at night. And I am more compfortable that he is growing and building muscles from actually being able to move around. My boyfriend has a three yr old female that does not move around very much (went by the care sheets) and her muscles are actually pretty weak from never working or building them.

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Originally Posted by Faber

Thats exactly what im thinkin, they like to roam at night and i don't wanna hold him down, i mean he's already in captivity how much worse can it get? hahaha

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Both of you guys really need to put your desires aside and think about the animal. They prefer the dark tiny spaces rather than the wide open spaces. Many ball pythons will roam their enclosure because they are stressed out. They are trying to find a comfy tight dark space where they can slither into. I really don't think it's wise of you guys who are just starting in the world of ball python keeping to think your doing the right thing for the animal. You have a ton of people here telling you that the way you are doing it is not the right way, all of the people telling you keep many snakes, they also have bred them and have very healthy animals. You guys really need to rethink the way your keeping your BP. It shouldn't matter how it looks to you, The snakes health is more important than your own desires. I started out like you guys, I had my first snake in a big tank and it didn't work out, with the help of all these people here I was able to get my stuff together and now I have more than a couple snakes ans they are all healthy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Faber

Then idk what a BP would do with all that space in Africa.

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Go to the big open africa and try to find a tame Ball:P

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Originally Posted by Beardedragon

Go to the big open africa and try to find a tame Ball:P

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:gj:

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Originally Posted by Buttons

110g is a bit too big for a ball python. Most people will recommend a 20-30g at most.

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no enclosure is to big! none at all.. being able to provide it with as near to its natural enviroment as possible is fantastic! but you must make sure it has adequate hiding spots.

people that say something is to big for a snake just annoys me, its ignorant and selfish!

if i could afford a 110 gal setup, i would do it providing i could keep the entire thing heated and at the right humidity all the time.

before my Boa was even 4ft long i had him in a 8ft by 4.5ft by 4ft custom tank set up and he loved it! of course he got HUGE! and needed it regardless but it took a while!

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Originally Posted by Buttons

Even full grown BPs don't need 110g. Read up on the caresheets on here.

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you dont "Need" half or MOST the stuff you have in life... dont mean to say that someone should stop you having it!

especially being locked up after being taken from your natural habitat.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by asnakelovinbabe

guys whether or not snakes thrive in smaller spaces, you simply cannot deny that if you use a large enclosure right, as in providing what the snake needs, just on a larger scale, and more of it, there is no reason a larger that necessary cage won't work. Africa is just a really really large enclosure, full of small dark places to hide. It doesn't hurt them to have extra space, even if they won't use it most of the time. If a person prefers to house a snake in a larger-than-is-absolutely-neccesary-for-survival enclosure, and is still able to provide the snake everything it needs... Really, what is the harm in that?! I am not saying snakes want more space, but there is no harm in providing it for them if it's used right. (please don't get mad at me, i am just tired of seeing so many people brought down for wanting to keep their snakes in large roomy enclosures with a bit of freedom to do as they please, if they wish.) i understand that some people feel insulted when told that a rack system is not enough space, and feel the need to defend themselves with the reasoning that the snakes thrive, but still, if a person wants to provide their snake with a mini africa and has the means to do it without harming or freaking out the snake, let them! I already do it with several of my snakes, (who else puts a garter in a 75 gallon?!) and once we move i can assure you i will do it with more of them!

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yah no "harm" .....

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Originally Posted by Beardedragon

Go to the big open africa and try to find a tame Ball:P

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I don't think that has to do with the amount of space. More likely it's because a ball python living in Africa has never seen a human and is certainly not handled everyday by one, that and they have to deal with parasites and predators.

I would have to agree with wuldier and aSnakeLovinBabe, a large enclosure can work but it takes a lot more effort to provide a suitable environment. I would think that most people that keep their BPs in huge tanks do not properly provide a suitable environment. It's more simple to tell someone to switch their snake to a tub or a smaller tank than to give them instructions on how to make a 100g tank work.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by justind

I don't think that has to do with the amount of space. More likely it's because a ball python living in Africa has never seen a human and is certainly not handled everyday by one, that and they have to deal with parasites and predators.

I would have to agree with wuldier and aSnakeLovinBabe, a large enclosure can work but it takes a lot more effort to provide a suitable environment. I would think that most people that keep their BPs in huge tanks do not properly provide a suitable environment. It's more simple to tell someone to switch their snake to a tub or a smaller tank than to give them instructions on how to make a 100g tank work.

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i concur

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Originally Posted by beardedragon

go to the big open africa and try to find a tame ball:p

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rflmao

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Originally Posted by Faber

Then idk what a BP would do with all that space in Africa.

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Africa is for wild snakes, your livingroom is not Africa. Apples to oranges.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wuldier

before my Boa was even 4ft long i had him in a 8ft by 4.5ft by 4ft custom tank set up and he loved it! of course he got HUGE! and needed it regardless but it took a while!

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Boas are not ball pythons. Most boas are active hunters that naturally hunt both on the ground and in the trees. Ball pythons are ground dwelling, ambush predators. Different species, different needs.

It's not impossible to have a small ball python in a huge enclosure but it is a lot of work and a huge committment from the owner to do it right. You will need multiple hides, you will need to enclose the sides and back of that huge tank, you will struggle with humidity and temperature issues. You will need multiple heating sources, controlling devices for those heating sources and digital monitoring devices to keep track of temps and humidity over that much space. Under tank will be better since overhead lights suck up humidity and with a glass tank of any size retaining humidity is always an issue. This is why it's often suggested to go with smaller tanks or tubs. Ball pythons like small areas plus the owner can care for the enclosure and make it right for the snake. No large enclosure is ever workable if it's unstable and the owner isn't able to manage it properly

As for the snake, you've indicated this is a very young BP. It's likely had very little to no handling before you got it unless you got it from a very small home breeder who has the time to handle every baby they hatch. Even if handled, baby BP's are naturally defensive. Their instincts drive them to be this way since in the wild environment they would be just as much prey as they are a predator at that age. Captive born or not, those age old instincts of self-preservation exist in these snakes. In other words, defensive striking and hissing is pretty much normal in very young snakes.

I would suggest you focus for now on making sure this big environment is stable across the board, holding proper temps and humidity, providing multiple hiding spots and so forth. Make sure there is very little open area. Make sure the tank is not in direct sunlight or in drafts and is not in a busy area of your home. Stop letting your friends handle the baby, it doesn't need that stress. Until it's firmly established in your home and eating well, I wouldn't even suggest you handle it much. That will come later.

Speaking of feeding. What does it eat? How often does it eat? What was it eating and what style of feeding was being used by the previous owner? Did that owner breed this snake personally or was it just the vendor? How much does this snake weigh currently? This information is very helpful when it comes to identifying some of the possible stressors on a very young snake.

As far as being docile, please remember these are never tame pets. They are, captive born or not, wild creatures driven by instinct. They are not pack or herd animals. They can come to accept us in their lives but their instincts do not drive them to need to do that. Respect the snake for what it is but more importantly, for what it is not.

A lot of my females are extremely docile. Although I was holding one before and she Bit me right on the forehead, I looked in the mirror and had 4 dots of blood on my forehead, it didnt make me mad, it was rather funny. I named her Dottie, cuzz she dotted me. Ive come to find out she is aggressive 24/7 I bought her as an adult, when she bit me i only had her a short while. I never realized she was so aggressive.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aSnakeLovinBabe

guys whether or not snakes thrive in smaller spaces, you simply cannot deny that if you use a large enclosure RIGHT, as in providing what the snake needs, just on a larger scale, and more of it, there is NO reason a larger that necessary cage won't work. Africa is just a really really large enclosure, full of small dark places to hide. It doesn't hurt them to have extra space, even if they won't use it most of the time. If a person prefers to house a snake in a larger-than-is-absolutely-neccesary-for-survival enclosure, and is still able to provide the snake everything it needs... really, what is the harm in that?! I am not saying snakes WANT more space, but there is no harm in providing it for them if it's used right. (Please don't get mad at me, I am just tired of seeing so many people brought down for wanting to keep their snakes in large roomy enclosures with a bit of freedom to do as they please, if they wish.) I understand that some people feel insulted when told that a rack system is not enough space, and feel the need to defend themselves with the reasoning that the snakes thrive, but still, if a person wants to provide their snake with a mini africa and has the means to do it without harming or freaking out the snake, let them! I already do it with several of my snakes, (who else puts a garter in a 75 gallon?!) and once we move I can assure you I will do it with more of them!

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I agree with you that it CAN be done - but the number of people who successfully do it is small. How many people are going to break down a 110 gallon tank at least once a month - completely to disinfect it?

A proper temperature gradient is next to impossible to maintain in an enclosure that large. Heck, a 20 gallon long was challenging for ME to keep the temps and humidity correct. And it resulted in a ball python that refused to eat for 8 months for me. He ate fine in the beginning and then he "told" me that he wasn't happy by his behavior. The week after moving him to an appropriately sized tub, he started to eat on a weekly basis again.

MOST people won't have the commitment and be willing to spend the money necessary to properly set up an enclosure that large, to ensure everything is perfect - multiple heat pads, multiple thermostats to control those heat pads, multiple digital thermometers with probes to monitor those temps, not to mention back up thermostats to put the first thermostats on.

First I think it is important for those that say the bigger the enclosure the better realize that we are talking about a Ball Python here, and no we cannot compare captivity with the wild, it just does not work that way.

Now back to the ball python obviously here is a prime example yet again that large enclosure are not bet for a ball python, this ball python is obviously stress and whether you believe it or not this is due to it’s husbandry.

A young BP should be housed in a suitable housing, as an adult can you try to house him in something bigger? Yes you can but the question will be can you provide suitable housing in a 110 gallons, a housing that will meet your BP’s need? In this case the answer will be not likely. (Providing a gradient from 80 to 90 degrees will likely be impossible in 110 gallons unless you are willing to spend money and time to make sure you do so same goes for providing a constant 50% humidity)

Few people in this thread based their advice on what they feel they would want if they were a snake, or what THEY want but not what his best for a BP.

Personally I will base my advice on what I know has been working over the years with the vast majority of BP owners who have experienced problems.

BP are not like any other snakes they cannot be compared to colubrids they cannot be compared to boas.

BP are docile (remember docile does not mean they are domesticated like a dog or a cat) but if their environment does not meet their needs it will create issues such as aggressive behavior, fasting etc. What is being observed now is likely only the beginning add extreme stress to improper husbandry and this will likely also lead to a RI and other issues.

Bottom line whether large enclosure work or not for some species when done right in this specific case the enclosure is not suitable which is why the OP has problems, so you can say a big enclosure can work all you want but in this case it doesn’t and saying the enclosure is ok is NOT HELPING solving the problem.

Now let’s try solving this problem.

Solutions

Move your BP into a suitable enclosure being he is a young BP use a 15 quarts tub or a 10 gallons enclosure.

Provide 2 TIGHT identical hides (hides must be snug all sides touching your BP’s body)

Provide proper temps gradient 80-84 on the cool side 90-94 on the warm side (Not what I provide but those are temps that work very well with new owner or problem BP.)

Provide 50% humidity at all time

Of course both of the above (temps and humidity) need to be measured with a digital device not a dial or stick thermometer or hygrometer that are very inaccurate.

Stop handling your BP for a while until he fully adjust to his new environment.

Once settled in try feeding him if successful you can than start handling your BP 10 to 15 minutes every other day.

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Originally Posted by aSnakeLovinBabe

guys whether or not snakes thrive in smaller spaces, you simply cannot deny that if you use a large enclosure RIGHT, as in providing what the snake needs, just on a larger scale, and more of it, there is NO reason a larger that necessary cage won't work. Africa is just a really really large enclosure, full of small dark places to hide. It doesn't hurt them to have extra space, even if they won't use it most of the time. If a person prefers to house a snake in a larger-than-is-absolutely-neccesary-for-survival enclosure, and is still able to provide the snake everything it needs... really, what is the harm in that?! I am not saying snakes WANT more space, but there is no harm in providing it for them if it's used right. (Please don't get mad at me, I am just tired of seeing so many people brought down for wanting to keep their snakes in large roomy enclosures with a bit of freedom to do as they please, if they wish.) I understand that some people feel insulted when told that a rack system is not enough space, and feel the need to defend themselves with the reasoning that the snakes thrive, but still, if a person wants to provide their snake with a mini africa and has the means to do it without harming or freaking out the snake, let them! I already do it with several of my snakes, (who else puts a garter in a 75 gallon?!) and once we move I can assure you I will do it with more of them!

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:bow::bow::bow: Thank you!!!. I have approximately four different hides for my baby ball python in the 55 gallon. He is able to get from one side of teh tank to the other with out ever showing himself. And then I also have Two Checkered Garters in a 40 gallon tank. Finally I am not the only one with a garter or two:banana:

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Originally Posted by Lewdogg3

Both of you guys really need to put your desires aside and think about the animal. They prefer the dark tiny spaces rather than the wide open spaces. Many ball pythons will roam their enclosure because they are stressed out. They are trying to find a comfy tight dark space where they can slither into. I really don't think it's wise of you guys who are just starting in the world of ball python keeping to think your doing the right thing for the animal. You have a ton of people here telling you that the way you are doing it is not the right way, all of the people telling you keep many snakes, they also have bred them and have very healthy animals. You guys really need to rethink the way your keeping your BP. It shouldn't matter how it looks to you, The snakes health is more important than your own desires. I started out like you guys, I had my first snake in a big tank and it didn't work out, with the help of all these people here I was able to get my stuff together and now I have more than a couple snakes ans they are all healthy.

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My desires aside????? Now if you actually saw my set up you would realze that the 55 gallon tank that I have for my baby BP stays at optimal temps and humidty... has multiple hides, he is able to get from one end of the tank to the other with out ever showing himself...... Adapted the very first day to his tank, An Excellent eater, very docile and gentle, Has never balled up on me or my son during the day or night....... And it works for him and I. Just starting into the world of BP's? Lets see I have been a reptile caretaker going on a few years now.... Just only recently added my baby (after my boyfriends two BP's have hit the adult stage). The snakes health is more important than your own desires.? Now I just got back from an initial check up on my baby and the vet has given him a very clean bill of health thank you. So before you attack me for my husbandry, please consider that you do not know me, my setup, or my snake.

Its not hard to maintain a 110 gallon at all. Especially in upstate new york where its currently about 75 degrees out. and i live upstairs so my room is almost perfect for my snake i think. He has plenty of hides in his tank. i think you guys are dwelling that you think this is my first time coming in contact, when i have like 5 years expierence, i just never met an agressive one. As far as matienence goes, its not hard. Put him in a tub, throw out the bedding, clean the tank, put in new bedding, put in the rest of his stuff. and i have two UTH's and a heat lamp, but i haven't used the lamp in the past two days cause its been hot in my room, and i have the two uth's. Btw they should definatly without a doubt have 12 hrs of light or so? i'm just askin cause i have a window in my room and i know they hate the overhead light. and ill probably buy another smaller hide, but even though most people say they are ground dwellers, which is what i always thought too, if you put them vines in their tank you might see otherwise, as you can tell from my pictures.

Also, i fed him a frozen fuzzy.