Swine Flu

Just read a couple articles on it, one of them being this one http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/med_swine_flu.

I was just wondering what are your thoughts on this and if anyone has anyone been keeping up with this?

I have, sort of.

A good friend of mine lives in Mexico City. He says all public places are closed down and people are stuck in their homes. I'm not that worried, but I think the gov't is trying to prevent commotion by saying there's no need for panic.

The thing is, people are not equipped to deal with this virus. Just think about what happened to the Native Americans when the Europeans came with all their germs and diseases.

Tomorrow there's a girl in my school coming back from Mexico. I'm hella excited. ... not.

So far it's in Israel, Brazil, Mexico (149 dead), United States (40 so far infected), Canada, Scotland, and I believe a few other places.

Hope that helped.

I personally think we are all going to die( ok just 1/3 of us). look at animals when populations get to big viruses wipe out a alot of them and they start over. Places where they have a lack of sanitation,large populations living close to each other,malnurished populations and corrupt goverment( they try to hide illnesses that could cost them money) will be the hardest hit. Of course if this is the new flu pandemic it'll be here to stay and will break out in waves like other flu virus.

This article summed up my feelings quite nicely:

http://health.msn.com/health-topics/...7462&gt1=31036

Personally, I think today's media culture has become one in which drama sells...and the more horror and fright they can inject into a story, no matter how ridiculous, they will do it....because it makes big bucks. (Just one of the many reasons why we have to constantly fight for our rights to keep our pets...the media loves to sensationalize every little incident as if it were gonna bring the world down around our ears. :rolleyes: )

I agree with JLC. This portion of the article hits it home. Seriously, there are what? 20 million people living in Mexico City? And 149 have died? The percentage is rediculously small.

"Meanwhile, that year--and in every year this decade—between 30,000 and 50,000 American deaths were recorded from complications related to the seasonal flu. Another 40,000 people died in automobile accidents. And each year, gunshot wounds account for 30,000 deaths, around 4,000 people drown while swimming or boating and 60 people die from lightning strikes."

BTW... I'm going to Ensenada, Mexico On May 16th to help build houses for the homeless. I'll let you know if I make it or not... ;)

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Originally Posted by ladywhipple02

I agree with JLC. This portion of the article hits it home. Seriously, there are what? 20 million people living in Mexico City? And 149 have died? The percentage is rediculously small.

"Meanwhile, that year--and in every year this decade—between 30,000 and 50,000 American deaths were recorded from complications related to the seasonal flu. Another 40,000 people died in automobile accidents. And each year, gunshot wounds account for 30,000 deaths, around 4,000 people drown while swimming or boating and 60 people die from lightning strikes."

BTW... I'm going to Ensenada, Mexico On May 16th to help build houses for the homeless. I'll let you know if I make it or not... ;)

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I as well agree with both you and Judy.

Here is another article I found on it as well that answers some simple questions. http://health.yahoo.com/news/ap/med_...e_flu_q_a.html

For the most part it sounds like a common flu. And it sounds rather easy to avoid it.(Don't go to Mexico)

I was 18 when the last swine flu panic went around in the US. This was back in 1976/1977 or somewhere around there I think. I was still in high school but since I was 18 I had the option on whether or not I wanted to get the shot, I opted out and didn't get it but there was a huge push to vaccinate everybody over the age of 18. If I'm not mistaken, some places were even saying it was mandatory. The weird part was that I don't think there was even a confirmed case of swine flu in the US. With the massive vaccination push, of course you had some people who turned out to be allergic to the vaccine and I also remember that to speed things up they had a new tool for giving the injections, instead of a needle it shot the vaccine in with a burst of high pressure air. Since they were in a rush to get this all done quickly they didn't train people very well on how to use these vaccination guns and I remember reading in the paper about some poor guy who got part of his arm blown off because the air pressure was turned up too high. I think after all was said and done, more people were killed or injured during the vaccination process then there were people who came down with the swine flu.

My friend is in Mexico City and (don't quote me on this) he said about 700 people are in the hospital and about 250 have died.

I think they're making it too big a deal to, but I'll keep my eyes out for this.

if we end up facing a pandemic i believe it'll be a bit more dramatic than a mere flu variant....

however, a future pandemic is certainly possible, especially with climbing population counts.

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Originally Posted by DutchHerp

My friend is in Mexico City and (don't quote me on this) he said about 700 people are in the hospital and about 250 have died.

I think they're making it too big a deal to, but I'll keep my eyes out for this.

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They problably are. Be careful though, last time I checked they still don't have any way of finding out if people are infected before they get on a plane.

Forgot to mention, I saw the funniest thing on the news last night about this, a reporter was talking about how some official (or someone) stated how they shouldn't blow this out of portion and that they shouldn't show too many graphic images that could stir panic "like people wearing masks" (those are the reporter's words not mine. And the whole time he said that they were constantly showing video footage of people wearing masks and showing all the countries it was in and etc. etc. etc.

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Originally Posted by Ben Biscy

if we end up facing a pandemic i believe it'll be a bit more dramatic than a mere flu variant....

however, a future pandemic is certainly possible, especially with climbing population counts.

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Agreed, although it could be from the flu. The flu is constantly mutating every year and they constantly have to making new strains of a vaccine. Some scientist a few years ago theorized that it might be able to combine itself with another virus creating a completely new virus "that could have a serious impact."

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Originally Posted by MarkS

I was 18 when the last swine flu panic went around in the US. This was back in 1976/1977 or somewhere around there I think... The weird part was that I don't think there was even a confirmed case of swine flu in the US. I think after all was said and done, more people were killed or injured during the vaccination process then there were people who came down with the swine flu.

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Not wholly accurate. There were cases here in the States and the numbers were pretty high vs. "typical" seasonal flu but nothing near the 1918/19 one.

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Originally Posted by Ben Biscy

if we end up facing a pandemic i believe it'll be a bit more dramatic than a mere flu variant....

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This one actually has a lot of potential to go full on pandemic and it is just a "mere flu variant", just an interesting chimeric one, not that that is too unusual either.

Long and short is that right now we are too early in the game to say just what is going to happen with it. I agree the media is hyping the heck out of this one like they always do. That said, the micro community is paying a lot more attention to this one than the avian bird flu that was all the news a few years ago and there are good reasons for that closer attention. Right now, I think it bears watching but the time for stockpiling the survival shelter is not even close to here.

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Originally Posted by asplundii

Not wholly accurate. There were cases here in the States and the numbers were pretty high vs. "typical" seasonal flu but nothing near the 1918/19 one.

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Do you know what the actual numbers were? I don't actually remember any cases where they confirmed that it was swine flu, but this is over 30 years ago and I'm just going by memory. I got curious and have been searching online too but haven't found much of anything yet. I know that there were a dozen people dead and a couple of hundred paralyzed from Guillain-Barre syndrome that was blamed on the vaccinations.

Do not know the numbers of the top of my head but I can hunt through my old files and see. There were a number of GB cases that were linked to the vaccination, that I do recall.

The whole name "swine flu" is a misnomer in this case and in the '77 pandemic as neither were transmitted to humans by swine (or any other animal for that matter.) The "swine" comes into play because of the history and evolution of the flu. Certain strains of flu normally circulate in swine and those same strains can infect humans (the '77 pandemic was H1N2 IIRC which is one of these.) Genetic level analysis of this particular strain indicates that some of the components of this strain are similar to those that have traditionally been found in swine populations. However since it is still too early to tell how this particular strain got into the human population so we do not know just what it is really. But by all accounts there apparently is no history of swine exposure at all, it has all been human to human. Technically the 1918 flu was a swine flu as well though we all know it as Spanish flu (which is also an odd one to me considering it originated in a military base in Kansas...)

thats it....time to ban pigs!!

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Originally Posted by Lucas339

thats it....time to ban pigs!!

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:rofl:

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There were cases here in the States and the numbers were pretty high vs. "typical" seasonal flu but nothing near the 1918/19 one.

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Wasn't they dealing with the spanish flu in 1918? I think was one the one that took thousands of lives (in europe) but perhaps that one crossed over to America?

I honestly think it is a lot bigger and nastier then most people think. time will tell.

What puzzles me about it is the deaths in mexico compared to the lesser effect in the United States. I have read several articles that point out how obviously the US has better healthcare, but I haven't found anyone yet that says better healthcare is the the reason they are dying over there, and just getting sick here. Most articles flat out say they don't know why it is ending in death in Mexico.

I am no scientific guru by any means, so my uneducated common sense tells me that maybe there are two different strains of the virus.... the one that it killing people in Mexico, and the weaker one that is just making people sick here.

Anyways, can someone please tell me why we aren't tightening up our borders until we have this whole thing figured out?!

At a time when Obama will be criticized for every penny spent, him asking for 1.5 billion to fight swine flu shows me it is something the administration (who knows way more then any of us) is taking it VERY seriously.

Yeah...
It's still pretty early.

Also(Like in other pandemics) it could die in the summer but re-emerge in the fall like the regular flu with a bigger hysteria.:rolleye2:

And to why it is worse in Mexico is still a mystery(Official report)

yeah, 60 people have it so far in the US, and apparently they are all recovering. The president is asking for 1.5 billion. Either Obama plans to give each of the 60 suffering with the swine flew $25,000,000.00 each, or they are expecting much much worse to come.

I ate some really yummy bacon with my eggs this morning. I haven't died yet so I am guessing that is a good sign. :)

What's with people saying they ate pig?
It's not transferable by eating pig, or even touching pig.

It's a human to human thing.

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Originally Posted by eulenspiegel

I ate some really yummy bacon with my eggs this morning. I haven't died yet so I am guessing that is a good sign. :)

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A 23 month old baby died from this in Texas today (maybe one of your neighbors?). Possibly HUNDREDS of children have it in NY. laugh it up.

According to the CDC, about 36 THOUSAND people in the U.S. die ANNUALLY from flu related causes.

So, how is this so different from every other year?

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Originally Posted by MarkS

According to the CDC, about 36 THOUSAND people in the U.S. die ANNUALLY from flu related causes.

So, how is this so different from every other year?

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Yep, ONLY 36 ThOUSAND people die anually from flu related causes because a large number of people, who are particularly vulnerable, get a FLU SHOT... Something that is not available for this flu, and wont be for months.

I must say it does scare me a little bit, since a few other outbreaks in the past killed quite a few people(according to what I have read diff places), but it is a different time now and, yes, I have heard a bunch about the media doing anything they can to really scare people about the whole thing and whats currenetly happening.

What worries me RIGHT now is that two cases were found not far down the road from where I am and my brother and sister are still in school who are in areas where it really could get spread around and rather quickly IF it happens. (more worried about them, not it coming back to myself)

So I can say it is starting to make me nervous and I really hope it doesn't get completely out of hand, (have heard multiple things about the actual number of deaths in mexico) but I am not freaking JUST yet.

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Originally Posted by Jyson

Wasn't they dealing with the spanish flu in 1918? I think was one the one that took thousands of lives (in europe) but perhaps that one crossed over to America?

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Yes the "Spanish" Flu was 1918/19 but it was a global pandemic that circled the globe no less than 3 times hitting every continent. And significantly more than a few thousand people died.

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

What puzzles me about it is the deaths in mexico compared to the lesser effect in the United States. I have read several articles that point out how obviously the US has better healthcare, but I haven't found anyone yet that says better healthcare is the the reason they are dying over there, and just getting sick here. Most articles flat out say they don't know why it is ending in death in Mexico.

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I would say health care is a pretty big sticking point. If you do not have the infrastructure and the supplies to support those that are ill then they are going to suffer more compared to those that do have the infrastructure.

There is also another factor that may be contributing to a higher level of "pre-immunity" here but I'll not bog people down in the details of that because I am sure that the majority of you do not care :P

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I am no scientific guru by any means, so my uneducated common sense tells me that maybe there are two different strains of the virus.... the one that it killing people in Mexico, and the weaker one that is just making people sick here.

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It is all one strain, they have typed it already so they know that the cases in Mexico are caused by the same strain as the cases here and in Europe and in Aus/NZ.

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Anyways, can someone please tell me why we aren't tightening up our borders until we have this whole thing figured out?!

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We are actually

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

At a time when Obama will be criticized for every penny spent, him asking for 1.5 billion to fight swine flu shows me it is something the administration (who knows way more then any of us) is taking it VERY seriously.

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There is a bit of a fallacy in that logic. Huge amounts of money were thrown into the "avian" flu which has gone all of nowhere in terms of being the next great lethal pandemic. This is part of the hype, people get scared cause the media starts throwing out questionable "facts" and then the public wants the scientists to save to world. And the scientists are not going to say no to "free" money to do more research.

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Originally Posted by MarkS

According to the CDC, about 36 THOUSAND people in the U.S. die ANNUALLY from flu related causes.

So, how is this so different from every other year?

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

Yep, ONLY 36 ThOUSAND people die anually from flu related causes because a large number of people, who are particularly vulnerable, get a FLU SHOT... Something that is not available for this flu, and wont be for months.

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And flu season is about to end here at which this flu will go to ground for the season and they will use the summer to make next year's flu vaccine (like they always do) and one component in that vaccine will be against this strain so that when flu season begins again, when/if this strain comes back, the vaccine will confer protection against it.

Mark is correct to ask how this is different than any other year. There is a good chance it is not any different. It is just that a strain that was not covered by this past years vaccine is popping up at the end of the season so no one has any type of exposure to it. This happens all the time, it just does not always happen in a place where the infrastructure allows for a rapid explosion of cases like this one did.


At the end of the day it is still too early to say what exactly will happen with this. The best thing to do is just be prudent, wash you hands, don't cough on your neighbors and not buy into the hype.

Human overpopulation, and huge factory farming, leads to these kinds of outbreaks, in my opinion. :( I am traveling to southern cali this autumn; I have no plans to change my itinerary. For one, my area here in NY, is full of farms where countless Mexican immigrants come seasonally to work. And I have already heard of cases of the flu in NY. So, I see no real difference in my chances of catching it, if I stay home, versus if I travel. I wanted to go to Mexico, but we changed our plans because of the unrest and upheval on the mex-US border; a very real danger.
I know that many people argue that we as a country, should keep our money here, and stop helping foreign nations. But personally, I think that we should financially assist Mexico in their dealings with this virus; we are intertwined and viruses do not respect manmade borders. And they need help. I really don't know what the correlation is, between US citizens mainly just getting sick from this; and Mexicans dying.. but it is something that I want to look into.

A little aside; I really wish that people as a whole, were neater and cleaner. I can't count how many times I'm in a bathroom stall, and hear people flush and just walk out. Or don't even bother to flush. Personally, I am a down-dirty country girl; but I still wash my hands well and use a paper towel to open doors at work where there are many people.. because many people don't! I'd seriously rather spend a day mucking out horse stalls, as opposed to dealing with human filth!

We are now at L 5 said who!!!!!!!!!!! Close your doors and hope for the best. This is going to hit hard but atleast schools will be out soon for the summer. My kids will be in summer camps:(

This is not an aggressive strain of flu... the media is making it a big deal while it's probably not.

I still think we should be be cautious, but there's not need for panic.

BTW, a guy on the Morelia Forums has swine flu, or so I've read at least.

The big thing with this flu isn't that it's bad but it's a mixure they have never seen before! This you tube video is interesting: YouTube - Why we have virus outbreaks & how we can prevent them

www.HealthFreedomUSA.org
http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/?page_id=195


"Pandemic panic" is not necessary.

Forced vaccinations, transportation and public event closings, and martial law are not necessary!


**Deaths in Mexico have gone FROM 168 TO 16. Now that is REAL healing! WHERE ARE THE HUNDREDS OF DEATHS THE MMD (media of mass deception) WERE ORIGINALLY REPORTING?

**CDC said that we should expect to see more severe cases of the Swine Flu on April 26, despite the fact that NONE OF THE CASES THEY HAVE IDENTIFIED ARE AT ALL SEVERE.

**WHO raised the alert level to Phase 5, the start of a Pandemic, on April 29 with one alleged death and only 91 confirmed human cases of a MILD, INCONSEQUENTIAL FLU, with one death.

**WHO changed the name of the current "Pandemic" from "Swine Flu" to "H1N1Influenza", because the name would "CAUSE AN UNWARRANTED CLAMPDOWN ON PORK TRADE"

**Hawaii's Governor, Linda Lingle, said that WHO was considering raising the alert status of the "Pandemic" to Level 6 on May 1, DESPITE THE LACK OF ANY MEANINGFUL THREAT.

**Saving the Best for Last. I wonder at the total absurdity of the following article: "And now, Canada officials say pigs have been infected and are under quarantine. IT'S THE FIRST KNOWN CASE OF PIGS HAVING THE VIRUS." http://www.wytv.com/content/news/loc...mGGGHlnhg.cspx


WHILE ALL THIS IS GOING ON, are you thinking about the insanity and criminality of the bailout? Of the weaponization and industrialization of all food production and control? Of the rapid coming of the new global currency? Of the dissolution of national states under the emergency authority of the United Nations, to whom all power is ceded under a state of "Global Pandemic"?

This is the ultimate slight of hand. But instead of a rabbit magically pulled out of the hat, it is a weaponized vaccine in a syringe. The syringe of death. Death to health, freedom and, very possibly, billions of people.

IF PEOPLE RESIST, RIOT OR PROTEST? MARSHAL LAW IS RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER.

See my blog posting about the Psychology and Physiology of Change: The Brainwashing of the West - http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/?p=1940

Dr. Leonard Horowitz, in an astounding YouTube presentation, names the names of the researchers, institutes and companies he considers responsible.

YouTube - Mexican Flu Outbreak 2009: SPECIAL REPORT by Dr Leonard Horowitz

This strain of flu is really no worse than any other acute strain. People die from the flu in the United States every single year. You don't hear about it though because it's not sensational news. This story was sensational because it was traced to a foreign country and the media hyped it up to make it sound worse than it really was.
I work in an Emergency Department and the people we've been flooded with watch way too much television and take too much to heart. The same things apply to this strain that applies to every other acute strain. You will have a harder time fighting it if you have a deficient immune system, are elderly, or are currently afflicted with another ailment that is wearing the body down. Infants and toddlers are also more suseptible simply because their immune systems aren't as developed as a healthy adult's is.
I'm all for freedom of the press, but this exposure was totally inappropriate and uncalled for and served no good to anyone. All it did was create a panic that could have easily been avoided. Of course countries like Mexico are going to see more deaths from viruses like this. In countries where healthcare is not as developed as ours, or where the country's citizens don't have the access to health care, you will see increased deaths and afflicted citizens. People just need to keep this stuff in mind when the media tries to make a mountain out of a mole hill.

None of us would be here today if not for viruses. Their role on our planet is to ensure our survival. Had they not taken the old and the weak since the dawn of time we could not have survived as a species. We are all the result of selective breeding and viruses are our keepers. The only reason they keep trying to find new ways to kill us is because we keep fighting them.

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Originally Posted by Serpents_Den

www.HealthFreedomUSA.org
http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/?page_id=195


"Pandemic panic" is not necessary.

Forced vaccinations, transportation and public event closings, and martial law are not necessary!


**Deaths in Mexico have gone FROM 168 TO 16. Now that is REAL healing! WHERE ARE THE HUNDREDS OF DEATHS THE MMD (media of mass deception) WERE ORIGINALLY REPORTING?

**CDC said that we should expect to see more severe cases of the Swine Flu on April 26, despite the fact that NONE OF THE CASES THEY HAVE IDENTIFIED ARE AT ALL SEVERE.

**WHO raised the alert level to Phase 5, the start of a Pandemic, on April 29 with one alleged death and only 91 confirmed human cases of a MILD, INCONSEQUENTIAL FLU, with one death.

**WHO changed the name of the current "Pandemic" from "Swine Flu" to "H1N1Influenza", because the name would "CAUSE AN UNWARRANTED CLAMPDOWN ON PORK TRADE"

**Hawaii's Governor, Linda Lingle, said that WHO was considering raising the alert status of the "Pandemic" to Level 6 on May 1, DESPITE THE LACK OF ANY MEANINGFUL THREAT.

**Saving the Best for Last. I wonder at the total absurdity of the following article: "And now, Canada officials say pigs have been infected and are under quarantine. IT'S THE FIRST KNOWN CASE OF PIGS HAVING THE VIRUS." http://www.wytv.com/content/news/loc...mGGGHlnhg.cspx


WHILE ALL THIS IS GOING ON, are you thinking about the insanity and criminality of the bailout? Of the weaponization and industrialization of all food production and control? Of the rapid coming of the new global currency? Of the dissolution of national states under the emergency authority of the United Nations, to whom all power is ceded under a state of "Global Pandemic"?

This is the ultimate slight of hand. But instead of a rabbit magically pulled out of the hat, it is a weaponized vaccine in a syringe. The syringe of death. Death to health, freedom and, very possibly, billions of people.

IF PEOPLE RESIST, RIOT OR PROTEST? MARSHAL LAW IS RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER.

See my blog posting about the Psychology and Physiology of Change: The Brainwashing of the West - http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/?p=1940

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I was wondering where all the nutjob bloggers had disappeared to after the election.

I think this is no different than regular flu, just a new strain.

A LOT of people die from the flu each year, but since this is "the new thing" its getting a lot of media attention.

Too much hype, I woudn't worry more about this than the common flu.

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Originally Posted by MarkS

I was wondering where all the nutjob bloggers had disappeared to after the election.

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You beat me to saying it Mark LOL

If I were really bored I would post the last weeks worth of ProMed Digests on the topic to provide him with a proper education on all that went on. But I know when my arguments would fall on deaf ears and he would just see those as further deceptions by the evil overlords...

The problem is that the scientific community is worried for good reason. Cross species diseases can be particularly dangerous. They have proven how good they are at mutating and in some cases humans have limited or no immunity. So I am all for government and science getting ready but then the news gets involved and people panic. The public knowing everything is not always a good thing.

I also totally agree with the sentiment that has been mentioned in this thread many times. Tens of thousands of death certificates every year have FLU written on them.

This is not about now it's about in the future. It's a hybrid virus so animals can get it pass it on back to people and evalution will make it more of a risk. Please watch this movie it'll tell you why we need to worry about this virus.
YouTube - Why we have virus outbreaks & how we can prevent them

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Originally Posted by rebeccabecca

This is not about now it's about in the future. It's a hybrid virus so animals can get it pass it on back to people and evalution will make it more of a risk. Please watch this movie it'll tell you why we need to worry about this virus.

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This H1N1 flu virus is no more or less a hybrid that any of the flu viruses out there. Do even minimal research into the background of flu as a virus and you would know that. And what is being discussed in that clip is not in any way related to the current flu hysteria

That movie is no more accurate than all the hype that has been put out by the mainstream news media outlets. It is overly dumbed down to reach the "average Joe" who hasn't got a whit of scientific knowledge and it has lost its message along the way. Notice that despite all his big talk and hand waving he did not really say all that much and he did not produce a shred of real evidence on the things he says he discovered (not that I am discounting them mind you, but once you learn to think like a scientist it is not something you drop) nor does he show in any way that the few cases he found were anything more than 'one of' situations. Do diseases pass between species? Yes, all the bloody time. Does that mean each time it is going to erupt into the next great plague? Not in the slightest. Diseases tend to be very host specific and when they make the jump 99.999% of the time it is a dead end jump because the new host is not a fit environment for the disease. So, will we keep seeing new and scary things pooping up in the future? Absolutely. But am I worried about Ebola becoming the next pandemic plague? Nope.

To many of you speculate without doing any research. If your only source for information is assuming or from corporate government owned media than you can see why this country has gone to hell.

George Carlin RIP

**video removed as inappropriate**

Warning nws!

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Originally Posted by serpents_den

to many of you speculate without doing any research. If your only source for information is assuming or from corporate government owned media than you can see why this country has gone to hell.

George carlin rip

**video removed as inappropriate**

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Originally Posted by asplundii

Diseases tend to be very host specific and when they make the jump 99.999% of the time it is a dead end jump because the new host is not a fit environment for the disease.

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You fail to mention one thing because it doesn't help your point at all.

The definition of a good host for a disease is one that lives long enough to spread the disease. Diseases can dead end because they are far too deadly to continue on in the new species. Normally this is not a problem but modern travel allows disease to spread world wide where in the past a single civilation would have been destroyed. There are real concerns for people here, just not with this strain of flu. There are examples in modern history of species being eliminated from disease even when the best and brightest minds tried to prevent it. The bananas we eat today are not the bananas our grandparents ate. Their bananas are all dead. We only have wine today because the roots of new world grapes are resistant to the disease we spread that nearly wiped out old world grapes.

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Originally Posted by Egapal

You fail to mention one thing because it doesn't help your point at all.

The definition of a good host for a disease is one that lives long enough to spread the disease. Diseases can dead end because they are far too deadly to continue on in the new species. Normally this is not a problem but modern travel allows disease to spread world wide where in the past a single civilation would have been destroyed.

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No, actually I did not fail to mention the jumbo jet vector because it is moot to my point. And I contend your definition of "good host", you need to do more than just spread the disease. You need to sustainably spread the disease. If you, as a host, die too fast then the outbreak burns out because it can not spread. I readily admit that it is possible to spread diseases via global travel but it does not change the fact that a dead end host is a dead end host. There is a reason we do not see Ebola making it into LA or DC or NY. It burns up the available host too fast to spread. Dead. End.

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There are real concerns for people here, just not with this strain of flu.

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But it is only things like this strain of flu that are the prime candidates for the jumbo jet vectors to rapidly spread them world wide. Because they are not such horrid, debilitating agents. They make you sick but not enough to stop you from going anywhere. They are highly transmissible but they keep you on your feet spreading the disease around.

And, as I said above, this flu is not even in the same class as the things that vid clip was describing. This flu was human in origin, NOT animal. Until recently it has only been spread human to human and the data on the infected pigs in Canada is not all in yet so we way be jumping the gun to say it has jumped species (and then we may not, I am waiting for the hard data.)

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There are examples in modern history of species being eliminated from disease even when the best and brightest minds tried to prevent it. The bananas we eat today are not the bananas our grandparents ate. Their bananas are all dead. We only have wine today because the roots of new world grapes are resistant to the disease we spread that nearly wiped out old world grapes.

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Apples to oranges. Agricultural species, being predominantly homogeneous, have little genetic diversity putting them at a reduced fitness on the population scale.

Why is this new H1N1 virus sometimes called “swine flu”?
This virus was originally referred to as “swine flu” because laboratory testing showed that many of the genes in this new virus were very similar to influenza viruses that normally occur in pigs in North America. But further study has shown that this new virus is very different from what normally circulates in North American pigs. It has two genes from flu viruses that normally circulate in pigs in Europe and Asia and avian genes and human genes. Scientists call this a “quadruple reassortant” virus.

Where did this virus get these genes?? from just people right ? no these genes are from a pig,human and avian which is from CLOSE contact with affected animals. Just as the video tells you animals gave humans the virus because of the way the animal/meat was taken care of. Heavy world travel spreds the virus thoughout the world and can't die out like they used to many years ago which can create a "super virus" like aids.

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Originally Posted by rebeccabecca

Why is this new H1N1 virus sometimes called “swine flu”?

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This "new" flu was originally called "Swine flu" because of traditional flu nomenclature. It has nothing, zip, zilch, nada to do with where the strain came from. Which is why the authorities on this kind of stuff (CDC, WHO, etc) pushed to drop the "Swine" epithet because it was leading to unnecessary confusion and unsound decisions (like killing every pig in some countries.) The genetic evidence has show that this flu is 100% human in origin. Again, if you did the basic background research into this outbreak and flu in general you would know that

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This virus was originally referred to as “swine flu” because laboratory testing showed that many of the genes in this new virus were very similar to influenza viruses that normally occur in pigs in North America.

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Not quite no. This strain was originally referred to as "swine flu" because it is of a type (H1N1) that are predominantly found circulating in pig populations. However, these strains also readily circulate in human populations and H1N1 strains have been circulating in the human population since at least 1917 if not before. H1N1 strains have also been part of the make up of most flu vaccines for the last 10 years or so.

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But further study has shown that this new virus is very different from what normally circulates in North American pigs. It has two genes from flu viruses that normally circulate in pigs in Europe and Asia and avian genes and human genes.

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It is no more "very different" than any other time there has been a shift.

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Scientists call this a “quadruple reassortant” virus.

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No actually call it a triple reassortment because it is composed of: 1) swine 2) avian and 3) human components.

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Where did this virus get these genes?? from just people right ? no these genes are from a pig,human and avian which is from CLOSE contact with affected animals.

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I am sorry this is just flat out not the case. Every gene in this novel strain of the flu is of human origin. The research shows that. This strain came about through a perfectly normal process of flu evolution called a shift. You might try looking that up.

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Just as the video tells you animals gave humans the virus because of the way the animal/meat was taken care of.

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There is a terminal flaw in that argument. First off that video is not even discussing flu at all let alone this specific flu strain. Secondly, I have said it twice now and I will say it again; what is being discussed in that video has no bearing on this current flu. We are not introducing some totally new and unknown agent from an epizootic source.

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Heavy world travel spreads the virus thoughout the world and can't die out like they used to many years ago which can create a "super virus" like aids.

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Obviously you ignored what I said above. Yes, heavy (or more appropriately rapid) world travel can and does spread diseases. But those best suited to the jumbo jet vector are the ones that are not debilitating because they allow/encourage the infected to travel in spite of the fact that they are sick. If you are too sick to move then you sure as heck are not going to get on a plane so any disease that makes you "too sick" is much less likely to spread and much more likely to just burn out in one small area. Like happens whenever there is an Ebola outbreak.

Below is a link to the CDC website that explains the H1N1 (swine) flu:
http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/qa.htm

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Originally Posted by asplundii

No, actually I did not fail to mention the jumbo jet vector because it is moot to my point. And I contend your definition of "good host", you need to do more than just spread the disease. You need to sustainably spread the disease. If you, as a host, die too fast then the outbreak burns out because it can not spread. I readily admit that it is possible to spread diseases via global travel but it does not change the fact that a dead end host is a dead end host. There is a reason we do not see Ebola making it into LA or DC or NY. It burns up the available host too fast to spread. Dead. End. But it is only things like this strain of flu that are the prime candidates for the jumbo jet vectors to rapidly spread them world wide. Because they are not such horrid, debilitating agents. They make you sick but not enough to stop you from going anywhere. They are highly transmissible but they keep you on your feet spreading the disease around.

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You really have a way of not taking into account the mutable nature of a virus strain. I accept your definition of a good host. Diseases that we are good hosts for are not a big deal. We live with them, literally. Diseases we are a bad host for are of great concern. Comparing Ebola to the Flu is like comparing apples to oranges. The Flu is much easier to spread and takes much longer to kill in the rare cases that it does kill. The key point I am trying to make is that strains mutate. I more deadly form of the common flu could kill millions. Its not likely but its possible.

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Originally Posted by asplundii

And, as I said above, this flu is not even in the same class as the things that vid clip was describing. This flu was human in origin, NOT animal. Until recently it has only been spread human to human and the data on the infected pigs in Canada is not all in yet so we way be jumping the gun to say it has jumped species (and then we may not, I am waiting for the hard data.)

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Again not disputing your point.

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Originally Posted by asplundii

Apples to oranges. Agricultural species, being predominantly homogeneous, have little genetic diversity putting them at a reduced fitness on the population scale.

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What I was doing is comparing humans to bananas. Clearly you have done your homework. Do a bit more on human genetic diversity. You will find that humans are not genetically diverse when compared to other mammals. So I am sticking with my comparison.

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Originally Posted by Wh00h0069

Below is a link to the CDC website that explains the H1N1 (swine) flu:
http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/qa.htm

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Thank you for the link Eddie. There are some things in there that are not in agreement with other credible sources I have read so I will be following up on them.

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Originally Posted by Egapal

You really have a way of not taking into account the mutable nature of a virus strain.

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Not so. I take the mutability of microorganisms into account daily to be honest. But I also take into account other factors involved... Like selective pressure. ;)

Odds are that an already established disease that is relatively mild will have a greater tendency to progress toward a more mild nature. The odds of it mutating into really nasty killer are much lower because the pressure to move that way is not there... Freak things do occur but odds are not in their favor

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Diseases that we are good hosts for are not a big deal. We live with them, literally. Diseases we are a bad host for are of great concern.

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You have my full agreement on that.

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Comparing Ebola to the Flu is like comparing apples to oranges.

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Yes, that is exactly what I was getting at. That vid clip is talking about things like Ebola. So trying to use it as a comparison to this current flu outbreak is a flawed comparison.

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The Flu is much easier to spread and takes much longer to kill in the rare cases that it does kill. The key point I am trying to make is that strains mutate.

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I never contended they did not. There is a reason we need a new vaccine each year :D

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I more deadly form of the common flu could kill millions. Its not likely but its possible.

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And I do not deny that either. I was not trying to debate what this flu or some other flu strain may or may not be capable of. Like I said above, I was more making the point that the content discussed in that vid clip was being misapplied to tis flu conversation.

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What I was doing is comparing humans to bananas. Clearly you have done your homework. Do a bit more on human genetic diversity. You will find that humans are not genetically diverse when compared to other mammals. So I am sticking with my comparison.

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Granted I may have missed it since human genetics is not in my primary field but I do not recall a study showing the global diversity of the human genome. If you have a reference I would love to read it. I have seen a number of population level studies using specific SNPs that showed high levels of homogeneity of those SNPs within the populations but beyond that I am not sure there are even enough complete human genomes from enough regions of the world to be able to make a full global comparison.

Cheers

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Originally Posted by asplundii

Not so. I take the mutability of microorganisms into account daily to be honest. But I also take into account other factors involved... Like selective pressure. ;)

Odds are that an already established disease that is relatively mild will have a greater tendency to progress toward a more mild nature. The odds of it mutating into really nasty killer are much lower because the pressure to move that way is not there... Freak things do occur but odds are not in their favor

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The problem with your argument is that it only applies to the grand scheme of things. Selective pressure implies that random mutation will create variations some that are more deadly and some that are less. 1000 years from now the ones that are less deadly will still be around and the ones that are more deadly will not. That's not relevant to the argument though. If a more deadly strain wipes out mankind and thus burns its self out you will have made a valuable point but we will all be dead. Odds are that an established disease will mutate randomly and the strains that kill to many hosts will die out progressing the disease toward a milder form. The more right you are, the more dead you are. One more time the PRESSURE you talk about is us all dieing.

I was never defending the video.

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Originally Posted by asplundii

Granted I may have missed it since human genetics is not in my primary field but I do not recall a study showing the global diversity of the human genome. If you have a reference I would love to read it. I have seen a number of population level studies using specific SNPs that showed high levels of homogeneity of those SNPs within the populations but beyond that I am not sure there are even enough complete human genomes from enough regions of the world to be able to make a full global comparison.Cheers

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I have read a hand full of papers over the past few years but of course I can't produce links to them. I hate to use wiki as a reference but it is a great source because at the bottom are lots of good references.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_g...uman_variation
This area is of course still very actively being researched but all of the signs based on the various studies you mentioned are pointing toward not a whole lot of genetic diversity in humans. We are far from being a clonal population but we are not exactly genetically diverse. This is all my synthesis of papers I have read and my field is computer programming and server architecture so take it or leave it.

Wash your hands and please don't sneeze boogers into your shirt sleeve at the elbow. Those elbow boogers will be with you all day!
Stay healthy everyone. At least while thinking of the swine flu and washing your hands, you're not thinking of that $5 gallon of milk, $3 gas, and wasteful government spending.