MSG Anyone?

Sorry guys.. but I'm going to rant to you about this. I was looking through my pantry today and well, it angered me. A lot.

So as some may know, I am indeed a vegetarian. Becoming a vegetarian is a live choice, and unfortunately.. I can't ever go back.
After becoming a veg, I lost a lot of weight, had slight anemic problems, and protein/amino acid deficiencies. I'm not here to explain why I'm a vegetarian, that's for another time.. however when I went on a Europe trip a year ago, I ate meat. When I came home I became very ill and to be honest, the meat tasted like what it is. Dead animal. None of it tasted good anymore.

So now to my point. I've been getting really sick lately.. and it's hard for me to go to the doctor (health insurance is government provided) and when I finally did go I explained my symptoms and we narrowed it down to a few things.
One of them being an allergic reaction to a flavoring component in many foods; monosodium glutamate. So I think, great, found the problem lets get rid of the MSG foods I eat.
Guess what guys.

Next time your eating chips, a snack, making a box product.. check the label. I give you about a 75% chance on one of the ingredients on a main brand food naming down as MSG. I'm 17 and I built up this allergic tendency to this virtually poisonous flavor additive?
When I eat this stuff, I get headaches, stomach cramps, and worse of all. My food does not digest completely.

It is one of the most difficult things to get rid of seeing that my food choices are already small. RAMEN is one of the biggest things in my house and it has MSG.. it's cheap and it tastes great. Can't eat it.
Mac and cheese.
ALL CHIPS.
ANYTHING salt based. MSG comes in a salt-like form so it looks and tastes a bit like salt.
So yeah.. I'm getting kinda mad at companies right now.

Teenagers, don't you ever complain about food! :colbert:

Wow does that suck!! I'm really sorry to hear that. But ya know, a friend of mine was a veg. for about 15 years- then she got pregnant and the doctor said that there was no way vitamins and supplements would be good enough. So she started slow with fish to chicken, ect, and she was pretty sick at first, but after awhile she got used to it again. She looks healthier now, to be honest (she couldent go back to a life with no meat after 9 months of it lol). Not saying you should go back to meat, just sharing a story- do what makes you happy :D

Most vegetarians I have known are also pretty big on eating organic foods and such, so MSG isn't a problem for them. I'm not sure it is related to you being vegetarian anyway. MSG bothers lots of people.

I'm pretty sure in ramen, the MSG is in the flavoring packet, so you could eat just the noodles. I bet you can flavor them up by adding veggies to the water. There are ways to make a pretty tasty vegetable-based soup stock.

If you want/need to get MSG out of your diet, for the most part your only choice is to avoid all those packaged processed foods.

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Originally Posted by mischevious21

Wow does that suck!! I'm really sorry to hear that. But ya know, a friend of mine was a veg. for about 15 years- then she got pregnant and the doctor said that there was no way vitamins and supplements would be good enough. So she started slow with fish to chicken, ect, and she was pretty sick at first, but after awhile she got used to it again. She looks healthier now, to be honest (she couldent go back to a life with no meat after 9 months of it lol). Not saying you should go back to meat, just sharing a story- do what makes you happy :D

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Ahaah. Actually meat (usually red meats) is very fatty and not meant to be eaten by humans on a daily basis. One-two times a week is good but it should not be a 3 meal thing, even every day can be bad. Not just because it's fatty but if you want me to go into that.. well it's complex but I can explain if you want me to.

Anyway, generally since becoming a veg, I have become healthier (except for the vitamin problems) I lost a lot of access weight and have a lot more energy and have felt better in general.
I guess feeling good can come with consequences though.. :[

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Originally Posted by kc261

Most vegetarians I have known are also pretty big on eating organic foods and such, so MSG isn't a problem for them. I'm not sure it is related to you being vegetarian anyway. MSG bothers lots of people.

I'm pretty sure in ramen, the MSG is in the flavoring packet, so you could eat just the noodles. I bet you can flavor them up by adding veggies to the water. There are ways to make a pretty tasty vegetable-based soup stock.

If you want/need to get MSG out of your diet, for the most part your only choice is to avoid all those packaged processed foods.

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I know it.. and we do buy a lot of organics!
It's just, well my family doesn't have a whole lot of money. So sometimes it's difficult to go to Trader Joe's instead of ALDI.

No, the MSG doesn't have anything to do with being a veg, except I feel like I have to become a vegetarian all over again with foods I didn't even realize were bad.. When I became veg I'd say 25-50% of my diet was gone, and now 75% of my current diet I have to eliminate or watch out for.
Basically I hardly have 15% of my original diet left. :[

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

After becoming a veg, I lost a lot of weight, had slight anemic problems, and protein/amino acid deficiencies.
So now to my point. I've been getting really sick lately.. and it's hard for me to go to the doctor (health insurance is government provided) and when I finally did go I explained my symptoms and we narrowed it down to a few things.
I'm getting kinda mad at companies right now.

Teenagers, don't you ever complain about food! :colbert:

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I hate to say this...don't take it the wrong way, but it looks like your body is trying to tell you something. No rudeness intended. Im huge on nutrition and eating right. Lets be realistic you can't get everything your body needs from fruits & veggies. Thats just not gonna happen. If you are allergic to MSG its safe to say you cant eat 90% of processed food thats on the shelves at the grocery store. Basically you are looking at organic fruits and veggies which means huge lack of protien among other nutrients. And really you can not be mad at the food companies for a choice that you made. I know its gotta suck but no one forced you to stop eating meat. I am also very aware of what I put in my body - I do my best to only eat organically grown food (during the summer most of our veggies come from our garden) - nothing processed here :) I love to cook, so everything my family eats is from scratch (never out of a box) I have so many organic cookbooks its not even funny. I do not add salt or any other types of additives to meat or anything else.

I really hope you find something that works for you so you are able to stay healthy. I see nothing wrong with being a vegetarian, but if it is making you sick I think you need to find another option.

Curious...I have a few vegetarian friends, some of which eat fish - do you eat fish? or no critter meat whatsoever???

One more ? - do you take vitamin/mineral supplements? If so, what kind?

I wish you the best of luck in getting healthy :D

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Originally Posted by lenastorms

I hate to say this...don't take it the wrong way, but it looks like your body is trying to tell you something. No rudeness intended. Im huge on nutrition and eating right. Lets be realistic you can't get everything your body needs from fruits & veggies. Thats just not gonna happen. If you are allergic to MSG its safe to say you cant eat 90% of processed food thats on the shelves at the grocery store. Basically you are looking at organic fruits and veggies which means huge lack of protien among other nutrients. And really you can not be mad at the food companies for a choice that you made. I know its gotta suck but no one forced you to stop eating meat. I am also very aware of what I put in my body - I do my best to only eat organically grown food (during the summer most of our veggies come from our garden) - nothing processed here :) I love to cook, so everything my family eats is from scratch (never out of a box) I have so many organic cookbooks its not even funny. I do not add salt or any other types of additives to meat or anything else.

I really hope you find something that works for you so you are able to stay healthy. I see nothing wrong with being a vegetarian, but if it is making you sick I think you need to find another option.

Curious...I have a few vegetarian friends, some of which eat fish - do you eat fish? or no critter meat whatsoever???

One more ? - do you take vitamin/mineral supplements? If so, what kind?

I wish you the best of luck in getting healthy :D

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Unfortunately, I eat two types of shellfish. Shrimp and scallops, which give me the iron, amino acids, and proteins I need.. I hate eating the buggers but they don't make me sick and doctors orders.

I take protein and iron supplements. And a children's multivitamin. I also eat a large amount of veggies that attribute to proteins and irons. I also eat a lot of rice and beans for protein! :]

Thank you, I'm doing my best here.

as for msg if your allergic to it you just have to avoid it seems to me its just somthing you must do read the product lables and dont eat anything you find with msg. ON the other point the human body is desinged to be omniverous, that means it does best on a balanced diet. If you want to be a vegitarian that's cool but if it was good for you you shouldn't need to eat all those supplements now should you. I live by the doctrine if it dosn't eat me first I'm willing eat it lol, or I didn't crawl climb and fight my way to the top of the food chain to eat grass.I hope you succede in finding a way to live without msg I don't think it's really good for anyone.

This has nothing to do with being vegetarian, it has to do with a poor diet. I have been vegetarian, almost vegan, for 5-6 years now and haven't had any health problems besides a couple that are not diet related. The foods you listed would be bad for anyone to eat, not just someone without meat in their diets.

And the human body does not need meat to survive, you just have to be smart about your diet.. but you meat eaters also need to be smart about your diet! Just because you eat meat does not make you healthier than people who do not, in most cases I eat way better than anyone I know who eats meat. I'm lucky, I have a Sprouts and a Whole Foods within 2 miles of me and we get organic fruits/veggies delivered to our house so it is easy for me to eat healthy without eating meat.

I think Lena nailed it. You can get all the nutrition your body needs from a vegan diet, but all the processed foods you named sound like you have a lot of changes to make. You should do a search for raw vegan diets to get a good understanding of which foods are needed for all the different nutrients and proteins you need to stay healthy. You're not even vegan, so it should be really easy once you have an understanding of what your body needs and which foods provide what. It's a shame that most processed foods are so unhealthy and use so many goofy ingredients when it seems like most of them shouldn't have to, but that's how it is.

Or you could just make up a plate a couple of times a week with greens, a baked potato and a medium rare filet mignon. Maybe a little cottage cheese... no msg there. The steak could be replaced with a nice trout filet even. You can start making a lot of vegetable based soups with beans and lentils, eat salads and yogurt with flax, hemp seeds, chick peas, grated almonds etc. There's plenty out there to have an unlimited vegetarian menu that gives you everything you need.

Everybody should try and avoid eating MSG anyways. It's actually got an addictive quality to it. Fast food joints have it in ALL their food. KFC is the worst if anybody is interested. Not only is it found in SO MANY foods you shouldn't eat, but it also makes you want those unhealthy foods even more.

I wanna hear why your a vegitarian! Please.:D

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Originally Posted by stangs13

I wanna hear why your a vegitarian! Please.:D

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OOOkayy.
Animals are virtually my life at this point, and my beliefs contribute. I do not believe that death is negative and actually find many positive aspects of it. The reason I'm a vegetarian is because I disagree with the way that the animals are treated while they are alive. The whole 'they're gonna die anyway so lets treat them like their already dead' doesn't sit well with me. Plus I never really enjoyed eating meat that much..
What most people don't get, is that if I went out and hunted and killed an animal, I would eat it. When you hunt you look for the 'older' animals and animals that have been wild all their lives and have not had any torment. When killing, it's usually as quick as virtually possible.
:]

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Originally Posted by edie

This has nothing to do with being vegetarian, it has to do with a poor diet. I have been vegetarian, almost vegan, for 5-6 years now and haven't had any health problems besides a couple that are not diet related. The foods you listed would be bad for anyone to eat, not just someone without meat in their diets.

And the human body does not need meat to survive, you just have to be smart about your diet.. but you meat eaters also need to be smart about your diet! Just because you eat meat does not make you healthier than people who do not, in most cases I eat way better than anyone I know who eats meat. I'm lucky, I have a Sprouts and a Whole Foods within 2 miles of me and we get organic fruits/veggies delivered to our house so it is easy for me to eat healthy without eating meat.

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I think I worded that a little wrong. Those processed foods were examples, not major parts of my diet. Unfortunately that is what my mother buys because it's inexpensive, and it was in my pantry when I was reading labels. Ever since I've become a vegetarian, I have learned to eat much healthier.. and a whole lot less fast food and fried foods. The problem with me getting large amounts of fruit and veggies is that they don't last very long, and I don't eat very much. They also aren't cheap so having all my veggies rot within a week isn't good news. :[
All my previous health problems are gone, I no longer have vitamin deficiencies, but now I have to be more careful with this MSG thing.

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Originally Posted by PythonWallace

I think Lena nailed it. You can get all the nutrition your body needs from a vegan diet, but all the processed foods you named sound like you have a lot of changes to make. You should do a search for raw vegan diets to get a good understanding of which foods are needed for all the different nutrients and proteins you need to stay healthy. You're not even vegan, so it should be really easy once you have an understanding of what your body needs and which foods provide what. It's a shame that most processed foods are so unhealthy and use so many goofy ingredients when it seems like most of them shouldn't have to, but that's how it is.

Or you could just make up a plate a couple of times a week with greens, a baked potato and a medium rare filet mignon. Maybe a little cottage cheese... no msg there. The steak could be replaced with a nice trout filet even. You can start making a lot of vegetable based soups with beans and lentils, eat salads and yogurt with flax, hemp seeds, chick peas, grated almonds etc. There's plenty out there to have an unlimited vegetarian menu that gives you everything you need.

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Mmm, that reminded me of hummus for some reason..
Thanks for the suggestions, I love soups so I definitely will look into making bean/lentil soups like that. It's about time I get a more varied diet anyway.. I donno about the filet though.. blech.

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Originally Posted by python.princess

Everybody should try and avoid eating MSG anyways. It's actually got an addictive quality to it. Fast food joints have it in ALL their food. KFC is the worst if anybody is interested. Not only is it found in SO MANY foods you shouldn't eat, but it also makes you want those unhealthy foods even more.

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Have you ever eaten a lot of food from a restaurant that seemingly was very salty and made you very thirsty? That's what MSG does. It comes in a form similar to a salt and when it's used in fast food it makes you more thirsty and addictive.
It's all for flavor and all against health. :[

Edit: Also, I buy a lot of miso products and vegan noodle mixes. Sometimes they all taste the same.. and not very good, but there are the occasional delicious ones that I love! Mmm.

I never thought ramen was vegetarian. I mean.. don't the flavor packets have a broth in them?
If you are going to be vegetarian, you have to do it right. Obviously, you're not doing it right, or you wouldn't have missing enzymes and protiens and be taking suppliments and such. Eating fresh(or frozen) fruits and vegetables and a lot of beans, rice, grains, and making sure it all balances out is not a easy thing.
Those pre-processed foods are expensive and unhealthy in general anyway.(Ramen being the probable exception) You can get a lot of dry pasta and real cheese and such to make mac n'cheese, and it's not much more expensive.
The vegetables, dry pasta, dry beans/lentils, cheeses, and grains can be bought in bulk, and stored in the freezer if necasary. Barley put into soups is also awesome and bulks up a soup nicely.
You might have to start buying some of your own foods, and checking into what makes up a proper vegetarian diet, so that you can eat vegetarian without any deficiencies.
I personally think that a human can live on a vegan diet, if it's properly balanced out with the necasary nutrients. I won't ever be vegetarian(and esp not vegan), I like meat. I try to eat a lot of in-season fruit, and I like steamed veggies too.
Good luck. Stay away from all processed foods, snack foods, instant foods, and such. It's part of the healthy lifestyle you seem to want anyway, and that way you should stay out of the MSG as well.

Have you ever considered going full raw? Where is Aleesha when you need her! LOL

Here check out www.rawfoodtalk.com/index.php

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

I never thought ramen was vegetarian. I mean.. don't the flavor packets have a broth in them?
If you are going to be vegetarian, you have to do it right. Obviously, you're not doing it right, or you wouldn't have missing enzymes and protiens and be taking suppliments and such. Eating fresh(or frozen) fruits and vegetables and a lot of beans, rice, grains, and making sure it all balances out is not a easy thing.
Those pre-processed foods are expensive and unhealthy in general anyway.(Ramen being the probable exception) You can get a lot of dry pasta and real cheese and such to make mac n'cheese, and it's not much more expensive.
The vegetables, dry pasta, dry beans/lentils, cheeses, and grains can be bought in bulk, and stored in the freezer if necasary. Barley put into soups is also awesome and bulks up a soup nicely.
You might have to start buying some of your own foods, and checking into what makes up a proper vegetarian diet, so that you can eat vegetarian without any deficiencies.
I personally think that a human can live on a vegan diet, if it's properly balanced out with the necasary nutrients. I won't ever be vegetarian(and esp not vegan), I like meat. I try to eat a lot of in-season fruit, and I like steamed veggies too.
Good luck. Stay away from all processed foods, snack foods, instant foods, and such. It's part of the healthy lifestyle you seem to want anyway, and that way you should stay out of the MSG as well.

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All the enzymes and proteins were a problem 2 years ago. I was taking supplements, but mostly the wrong ones.
Not now.
Oriental Ramen has no meat broths. :]
Thank you, the barley thing sounds interesting, I'll be sure to try it out.

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Animals are virtually my life at this point, and my beliefs contribute. I do not believe that death is negative and actually find many positive aspects of it. The reason I'm a vegetarian is because I disagree with the way that the animals are treated while they are alive. The whole 'they're gonna die anyway so lets treat them like their already dead' doesn't sit well with me. Plus I never really enjoyed eating meat that much..
What most people don't get, is that if I went out and hunted and killed an animal, I would eat it. When you hunt you look for the 'older' animals and animals that have been wild all their lives and have not had any torment. When killing, it's usually as quick as virtually possible.
:]

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I for one really understand this part of your choice. I have seen with my own eyes several processing plants, for poultry, beef, and milk. And I flat-out refuse to eat that anymore. I no longer ever buy meats from the grocery stores. Not only are the animals treated extremely poorly, but the sanitation and procedure...ugh.

Now, I'm as far from vegetarian as you can be! I love meat, love love love it. However, my meat is either raised by my own hands, my close neighbor's hands, or taken humanely from the wild at a ripe tasty age. This includes my own milk and eggs!

My livestock are treated like pets, and get the best care. I just came from outside, I spent a few hours cleaning the very spacious pens, and I cut some nice branches for everyone to peck at or eat. They live happy healthy lives, and taste a heck of alot better!

I do know that's certainly not an option for everyone, and some people find it hard. I was raised to do this, so it doesn't bother me very much. And of course, living in the city, you can't have goats and chickens and whatnot.

But anyways, I just wanted to share my understanding. :)

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Originally Posted by Epona142

I for one really understand this part of your choice. I have seen with my own eyes several processing plants, for poultry, beef, and milk. And I flat-out refuse to eat that anymore. I no longer ever buy meats from the grocery stores. Not only are the animals treated extremely poorly, but the sanitation and procedure...ugh.

Now, I'm as far from vegetarian as you can be! I love meat, love love love it. However, my meat is either raised by my own hands, my close neighbor's hands, or taken humanely from the wild at a ripe tasty age. This includes my own milk and eggs!

My livestock are treated like pets, and get the best care. I just came from outside, I spent a few hours cleaning the very spacious pens, and I cut some nice branches for everyone to peck at or eat. They live happy healthy lives, and taste a heck of alot better!

I do know that's certainly not an option for everyone, and some people find it hard. I was raised to do this, so it doesn't bother me very much. And of course, living in the city, you can't have goats and chickens and whatnot.

But anyways, I just wanted to share my understanding. :)

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I would adore to live on a farm for that reason. Even with all of the work, it's a type of work I enjoy and desire. You of all people probably understand why I'm a vegetarian more than most, and if I was in your situation I would do the same thing. I would eat meat if I knew where it came from.
Sometimes people suggest that I buy from specific farms or organics, but I live in the suburban area and it's far from any meat farms and even though a meat is organic, doesn't mean I really know how they were treated. Some meats are out there I'm sure that were treated well, but I can't pick and choose because theres no way to know. :[

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Have you ever considered going full raw? Where is Aleesha when you need her! LOL

Here check out www.rawfoodtalk.com/index.php

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That is very interesting! Thanks Connie, I'll look around that site.

Everyone else has covered what all I was going to say. I'm a vegetarian also. I'd be vegan if it weren't for cheese and eggs (though I only buy certified humane eggs). Everything else I eat is vegan, and I don't ever buy or wear animal products. So, I know where you're coming from on the "it's hard to find food for myself" front. :P

My diet is a LOT of fresh fruits and veggies. Grains in pastas and bread are a big portion of it, too. I take a multivitamin every week or so, and thus far I haven't had any problems with anything. I'm glad you've gotten all your vitamin stuff sorted out properly.

And for those of you who eat meat and say that "vegetarianism can't be good for you if you have to take vitamins" ... yeah. Technically, we should all be taking vitamins. And eating fresh fruits and veggies is FAR healthier than eating the fat of another animal. Meat only has protein in it because the animals first ate plants. It gets REALLY old hearing people talk about protein deficiencies in vegetarians. We get just as much protein as the next guy, provided we're eating properly.

And for those of you who say, "Oh, I could never give up meat. I love it too much!" Personally, I think that sounds very selfish and ignorant. But that's just me.

I wish I had the patience today to explain myself further and not sound so snappy, but I've had a rough day. So those are my thoughts on the matter in a not-so-nice way, and I apologize for it.

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Originally Posted by lenastorms

Im huge on nutrition and eating right. Lets be realistic you can't get everything your body needs from fruits & veggies.

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I respectfully 100% disagree with you. I'm a raw vegan which means I only each raw fruits, veggies, nuts and seeds although I'm not big on the nuts and seeds. EVERYthing you need is in your food if you eat it when it hasn't been heated above 118 degrees.

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Have you ever considered going full raw? Where is Aleesha when you need her! LOL

Here check out www.rawfoodtalk.com/index.php

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I'm here I'm here... there is this forum (mine) as well:

http://www.timelessspirit.com/forum

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

That is very interesting! Thanks Connie, I'll look around that site.

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I'll be there... if ya need me!

Not only have I recovered from diabetes and a very very sick liver, high blood pressure and horrid cholesterol but I've also released 140 pounds in 11 months. Yup you heard me right... that's simply because I'm giving my body all the nutrients it needs, feeding it really healthy live foods and the weight literally just melted off me.

I've been to my doctor who is very supportive of my lifestyle and he's thrilled with my blood results. He's told me that I'm no longer diabetic, my liver is above optimal (and it was the same as a 50-year-drinking liver - and I don't drink!), my cholesterol is perfect and my blood pressure is once again on the low side (always has been).

Consider live foods... even if you don't go 100% raw (which I recommend) - the more live food you put into your body the more nutrition your body has to work with. If nothing else... a green smoothie is essential for a healthy body. One or two (or more) a day... does wonders.

My hubby has never been able to control his diabetes. No matter what he ate, his sugars were high. He went on a 20 day green smoothie feast (nothing but green smoothies for 20 days) and his sugars came down and now are GREAT. Our doctor was so happy to hear he's decided to join me (he encouraged him to as a matter of fact)... as his blood work is so much better now. :)

So... just do it!

Here's a little article about my journey:

http://www.timelessspirit.com/JAN08/walk.shtml

and my blog:

http://aleeshasrawlife.blogspot.com/

here's me a year ago eating vegan food: http://www.timelessspirit.com/JULY07...s/aleesha1.jpg

here's me today eating raw: http://www.timelessspirit.com/SEPT08/images/aleesha.jpg

Wow, you look great!

I eat as much raw produce as possible, most grown in my own garden, fertilized by all natural product (Chickens, goats, rabbits...all multi-purpose!) :D

My dogs also get an all-raw diet, and you wouldn't believe the difference in fur and teeth. We eat a meat product perhaps once a day, five or six nights on average, and like I mentioned, I know exactly where my meat came from, how it lived, how it was processed. It really makes for a better, healthier lifestyle and I wish everyone could try it, even though its not possible.

Edited to add: Let me just mention my milk/butter/cheese/ice cream is also raw. After seeing what I saw in a commercial milking plant, there is no way in HECK I would EVER touch commercial milk again. You don't even want to know, trust me. So now my milk/butter/cheese/ice cream all either comes from a neighbor with a few dairy cattle, or I make it myself with goat's milk. (Just as good as cow's milk I promise! You really cannot tell the difference.) I also plan on learning to make my own milk soaps later this year, and if it works out, I hope to have some to sell. :)

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

OOOkayy.
Animals are virtually my life at this point, and my beliefs contribute. I do not believe that death is negative and actually find many positive aspects of it. The reason I'm a vegetarian is because I disagree with the way that the animals are treated while they are alive. The whole 'they're gonna die anyway so lets treat them like their already dead' doesn't sit well with me. Plus I never really enjoyed eating meat that much..
What most people don't get, is that if I went out and hunted and killed an animal, I would eat it. When you hunt you look for the 'older' animals and animals that have been wild all their lives and have not had any torment. When killing, it's usually as quick as virtually possible.
:]

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Ok, what do you mean by treating them like they are already dead?
From what I have experienced and read people don't hunt older animals or fish, they either taste bad or are tough it comes with the age of the animal. Some fish will have bugs in the meat too when they are older. Its nasty!

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Originally Posted by Epona142

Edited to add: Let me just mention my milk/butter/cheese/ice cream is also raw. After seeing what I saw in a commercial milking plant, there is no way in HECK I would EVER touch commercial milk again. You don't even want to know, trust me. So now my milk/butter/cheese/ice cream all either comes from a neighbor with a few dairy cattle, or I make it myself with goat's milk. (Just as good as cow's milk I promise! You really cannot tell the difference.) I also plan on learning to make my own milk soaps later this year, and if it works out, I hope to have some to sell. :)

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What was wrong with the milking plant?

Why don't you go to youtube and type in "meet your meat". Then you'll know what we're talking about.

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Originally Posted by Mindibun

Why don't you go to youtube and type in "meet your meat". Then you'll know what we're talking about.

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I want to hear from them!:gj:

Do you honestly want to know? Ergh.

Let's start with the fact it was filthy. The cows were living in mud constantly, which is really bad for their hooves. Their calves were immediately taken away and raised for veal. (Which means living in a tiny stall where they cannot even turn around, but that's another issue.)

The machines they were hooked up to were not properly matienenced. Some of the cows had crusty, scabby udders. Many had numerous health problems, including mastitis, an infection of the udder. Which, by the way, all of that gets into the milk.

Just the look in these poor cow's eyes was enough to turn me off from commercial milk. Not to mention, by the time you GET the milk, its little more than chalky water, having been pasteurized and homogenized to death.

Don't ask me where I saw this, because I'm no going to say, to prevent any possible legal repercussions. I wasn't really supposed to be there. :bolt:

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Originally Posted by Epona142

Do you honestly want to know? Ergh.

Let's start with the fact it was filthy. The cows were living in mud constantly, which is really bad for their hooves. Their calves were immediately taken away and raised for veal. (Which means living in a tiny stall where they cannot even turn around, but that's another issue.)

The machines they were hooked up to were not properly matienenced. Some of the cows had crusty, scabby udders. Many had numerous health problems, including mastitis, an infection of the udder. Which, by the way, all of that gets into the milk.

Just the look in these poor cow's eyes was enough to turn me off from commercial milk. Not to mention, by the time you GET the milk, its little more than chalky water, having been pasteurized and homogenized to death.

Don't ask me where I saw this, because I'm no going to say, to prevent any possible legal repercussions. I wasn't really supposed to be there. :bolt:

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Darn, there cows had mastits? Thats actually quite shocking. All the dairys I have seen are kept in tip top shape, and the cattle are superb!

sorry?

You're lucky then! I'm glad the ones you've been too are nice and clean. Dairies are supposed to be regulated, but all too often they are not as closely monitered as they should be. Same goes for all processing plants of this genre.

:(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Epona142

Some of the cows had crusty, scabby udders. Many had numerous health problems, including mastitis, an infection of the udder. Which, by the way, all of that gets into the milk.

---

This is part of what I found out when I was doing some research before I switched to organic milk. It is DISGUSTING what gets in your milk. Let me tell you, if you switch to organic milk you will not switch back. It tastes SO much better. It stays fresher in your fridge much longer, because it isn't already half rotten from the pus that is in it from the infected udders of the poor cows.

If you don't believe me, just check the dates on the organic milk in your grocery store and compare it to the dates on the regular milk. It is very common for me to find that the 1/2 gallon cartons of organic are dated to indicate they will last at least 2 weeks longer than the non-organic milk. There doesn't seem to be quite as big of a difference on the gallon cartons, don't know why that is.

Oh my.. so much to reply. Well here I go.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mindibun

Everyone else has covered what all I was going to say. I'm a vegetarian also. I'd be vegan if it weren't for cheese and eggs (though I only buy certified humane eggs). Everything else I eat is vegan, and I don't ever buy or wear animal products. So, I know where you're coming from on the "it's hard to find food for myself" front. :P

My diet is a LOT of fresh fruits and veggies. Grains in pastas and bread are a big portion of it, too. I take a multivitamin every week or so, and thus far I haven't had any problems with anything. I'm glad you've gotten all your vitamin stuff sorted out properly.

And for those of you who eat meat and say that "vegetarianism can't be good for you if you have to take vitamins" ... yeah. Technically, we should all be taking vitamins. And eating fresh fruits and veggies is FAR healthier than eating the fat of another animal. Meat only has protein in it because the animals first ate plants. It gets REALLY old hearing people talk about protein deficiencies in vegetarians. We get just as much protein as the next guy, provided we're eating properly.

And for those of you who say, "Oh, I could never give up meat. I love it too much!" Personally, I think that sounds very selfish and ignorant. But that's just me.

I wish I had the patience today to explain myself further and not sound so snappy, but I've had a rough day. So those are my thoughts on the matter in a not-so-nice way, and I apologize for it.

---

Wow, you hit it right on the head. I couldn't have ever explained it better if my life depended on it.
Thank you for understanding, and we forgive you. :]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by recycling goddess

I respectfully 100% disagree with you. I'm a raw vegan which means I only each raw fruits, veggies, nuts and seeds although I'm not big on the nuts and seeds. EVERYthing you need is in your food if you eat it when it hasn't been heated above 118 degrees.



I'm here I'm here... there is this forum (mine) as well:

http://www.timelessspirit.com/forum



I'll be there... if ya need me!

Not only have I recovered from diabetes and a very very sick liver, high blood pressure and horrid cholesterol but I've also released 140 pounds in 11 months. Yup you heard me right... that's simply because I'm giving my body all the nutrients it needs, feeding it really healthy live foods and the weight literally just melted off me.

I've been to my doctor who is very supportive of my lifestyle and he's thrilled with my blood results. He's told me that I'm no longer diabetic, my liver is above optimal (and it was the same as a 50-year-drinking liver - and I don't drink!), my cholesterol is perfect and my blood pressure is once again on the low side (always has been).

Consider live foods... even if you don't go 100% raw (which I recommend) - the more live food you put into your body the more nutrition your body has to work with. If nothing else... a green smoothie is essential for a healthy body. One or two (or more) a day... does wonders.

My hubby has never been able to control his diabetes. No matter what he ate, his sugars were high. He went on a 20 day green smoothie feast (nothing but green smoothies for 20 days) and his sugars came down and now are GREAT. Our doctor was so happy to hear he's decided to join me (he encouraged him to as a matter of fact)... as his blood work is so much better now. :)

So... just do it!

Here's a little article about my journey:

http://www.timelessspirit.com/JAN08/walk.shtml

and my blog:

http://aleeshasrawlife.blogspot.com/

here's me a year ago eating vegan food: http://www.timelessspirit.com/JULY07...s/aleesha1.jpg

here's me today eating raw: http://www.timelessspirit.com/SEPT08/images/aleesha.jpg

---

I completely think that going raw would be a major health decision I would want to make.. however.. I will do my best to eat more raw foods.. but I won't be able to eat ONLY raw foods. In the future I may be able to become vegan and raw but I can't overdo it now.
Right now, my nutrition is very important, but I have a lot of other loads on my shoulders in my life that I need to worry about for my future as well. Taking a big step like that is going to have to come slowly for me. Raw fasts are probably a good idea, but school makes things difficult. :[
It's almost interesting. My mother has severe liver problems (which are healing with acupuncture and other alternative work) but it was due to having toxemia with my younger brother. I feel terrible for my mother and all she's gone through when it comes to birthing children. :(

Also, I've seen your pictures before, and I do say you look fantastic and have done a wonderful job!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stangs13

Ok, what do you mean by treating them like they are already dead?
From what I have experienced and read people don't hunt older animals or fish, they either taste bad or are tough it comes with the age of the animal. Some fish will have bugs in the meat too when they are older. Its nasty!

---

When a hunter goes hunting for turkey or deer, what do they look for?
Turkey hunters look for large big lead turkeys that have the largest body on them. They are usually older. Not necessarily OLD but older.
Deer hunters go for the biggest prize, the largest head of antlers. The more points, the older it is. :]
That is what I meant by it being older. Fish is something completely different.

As for animals being treated like they are already dead, many factory farms do not treat an animal like a living thing. They beat them, step on them, kick them, and do all types of nasty things.
Now theres one thing I want to get straight.
I HATE PETA.
Well.. strongly despise and dislike. Hate is a strong word..
They're intentions have gone way beyond just animal cruelty after what they have done to animals themselves. They want zero contact with humans and animals. No blind eye dogs, no canine unit, no PETS, no educational zoos, nothing.
They also only look at the negative aspects and the problem, when people do this it bothers me. Fighting negative with negative rarely wins.
Why I told you I hate PETA is because I found out from them about chicken farms. I found out about the worst of the farms. They feed chickens with added steroids to make them bigger faster. The chickens grow too fast for their own body an their legs break as a result. Chickens who can't walk through the pens are beaten and left to die.


Now, that is the worst of the scenarios and it may have only happened once. And what PETA doesn't seem to point out, is that there are places that are not like that. They only look at the bad.

But that is what I mean by them being treated as if they were dead.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Epona142

Do you honestly want to know? Ergh.

Let's start with the fact it was filthy. The cows were living in mud constantly, which is really bad for their hooves. Their calves were immediately taken away and raised for veal. (Which means living in a tiny stall where they cannot even turn around, but that's another issue.)

The machines they were hooked up to were not properly matienenced. Some of the cows had crusty, scabby udders. Many had numerous health problems, including mastitis, an infection of the udder. Which, by the way, all of that gets into the milk.

Just the look in these poor cow's eyes was enough to turn me off from commercial milk. Not to mention, by the time you GET the milk, its little more than chalky water, having been pasteurized and homogenized to death.

Don't ask me where I saw this, because I'm no going to say, to prevent any possible legal repercussions. I wasn't really supposed to be there. :bolt:

---

I've known this for a while. I never liked milk anyway though. Blech, I hate the taste. It's just.. not right.
I also know that milk turns yellow on TV partially because of that pus and is why it's no longer used in cereal commercials and is instead replaced with glue.


Thats the thing. Some dairies are nice. Some are horrible. Same with factory farms.
Either way, it's too hard to pick and choose, and even some of the organics farms are bad.. so really we can't always know.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kc261

This is part of what I found out when I was doing some research before I switched to organic milk. It is DISGUSTING what gets in your milk. Let me tell you, if you switch to organic milk you will not switch back. It tastes SO much better. It stays fresher in your fridge much longer, because it isn't already half rotten from the pus that is in it from the infected udders of the poor cows.

If you don't believe me, just check the dates on the organic milk in your grocery store and compare it to the dates on the regular milk. It is very common for me to find that the 1/2 gallon cartons of organic are dated to indicate they will last at least 2 weeks longer than the non-organic milk. There doesn't seem to be quite as big of a difference on the gallon cartons, don't know why that is.

---

This is SOOOO not true. Organic cows are not allowed to be treated, even when they are sick. No antibiotics are allowed period, even if prescribed by a vet. So you usually get worse infections in the milk. My brother in law is a big dairy vet, and he won't touch organic milk.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tigerlily

This is SOOOO not true. Organic cows are not allowed to be treated, even when they are sick. No antibiotics are allowed period, even if prescribed by a vet. So you usually get worse infections in the milk. My brother in law is a big dairy vet, and he won't touch organic milk.

---

According to the research I did, organically managed dairy cows get less infections to start out with, because they aren't being fed all the hormones and stuff. When they do get sick, most organic farms will just sell animals that need to be treated with antibiotics to non-organic farms. It makes sense to me that they wouldn't want sick cows hanging around making the rest of their cows sick. I'm sure there are probably at least some organic farms that are not as good as others. I also know nothing first hand about the subject, so I could be entirely wrong.

One thing I do know first hand is that the milk tastes better and lasts longer without spoiling.

I have one thing to say about cow's milk, goat's milk etc.

They are created to raise THEIR young, not ours.

I rather raise my kids to be nuts... hence why we drink nut mylk! :)

Easy to make:

Take a cup or two of raw almonds, cashews, hazelnuts, sesame seeds... whatever mylk you want to make. Soak them overnight in water.

Next morning, drain off the water and place the nuts in your blender with a few cups of water (if you want a dash of salt, a little hemp/flax oil and even some agave or honey to sweeten although these are not necessary) - blend.

Strain the mylk and put the pulp back into your blender with more water. Blend.

Strain again. Now set the mylk in the fridge to chill and put the pulp in the freezer to use to make raw cookies later!

You will LOVE this mylk and it's soooooooooooooooooo good for you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

When a hunter goes hunting for turkey or deer, what do they look for?
Turkey hunters look for large big lead turkeys that have the largest body on them. They are usually older. Not necessarily OLD but older.
Deer hunters go for the biggest prize, the largest head of antlers. The more points, the older it is. :]
That is what I meant by it being older. Fish is something completely different.

As for animals being treated like they are already dead, many factory farms do not treat an animal like a living thing. They beat them, step on them, kick them, and do all types of nasty things.
Now theres one thing I want to get straight.
I HATE PETA.
Well.. strongly despise and dislike. Hate is a strong word..
They're intentions have gone way beyond just animal cruelty after what they have done to animals themselves. They want zero contact with humans and animals. No blind eye dogs, no canine unit, no PETS, no educational zoos, nothing.
They also only look at the negative aspects and the problem, when people do this it bothers me. Fighting negative with negative rarely wins.
Why I told you I hate PETA is because I found out from them about chicken farms. I found out about the worst of the farms. They feed chickens with added steroids to make them bigger faster. The chickens grow too fast for their own body an their legs break as a result. Chickens who can't walk through the pens are beaten and left to die.


Now, that is the worst of the scenarios and it may have only happened once. And what PETA doesn't seem to point out, is that there are places that are not like that. They only look at the bad.

But that is what I mean by them being treated as if they were dead.



Thats the thing. Some dairies are nice. Some are horrible. Same with factory farms.
Either way, it's too hard to pick and choose, and even some of the organics farms are bad.. so really we can't always know.

---

Thanks for clearing what you meant by older for me!

While there are bad packing plants, feedlots, chicken houses, hog barns there are WAY more good ones. Its just like anything, the bad is more visible than the good. I speak from personal experience that those bad lots/houses/plants DON'T last long.

Very few chicken farmers inject GH into there chickens anymore. The standard broiler cross chicken will grow HUGE and weight around 8+ pounds in 6 weeks. And they will still be able to walk. But I am glad you see that there is more than just the bad that is shown. I really wish I could type forever on this subject as I am an agfreak, and my parents have worked and managed feedlots, hog barns, and at packing plants.


I am to used to seeing people that jump all over places like that because of what they see on TV, when they or the media have NO idea what they are talking about! But I am very glad you are an exception!:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kc261

According to the research I did, organically managed dairy cows get less infections to start out with, because they aren't being fed all the hormones and stuff. When they do get sick, most organic farms will just sell animals that need to be treated with antibiotics to non-organic farms. It makes sense to me that they wouldn't want sick cows hanging around making the rest of their cows sick. I'm sure there are probably at least some organic farms that are not as good as others. I also know nothing first hand about the subject, so I could be entirely wrong.

One thing I do know first hand is that the milk tastes better and lasts longer without spoiling.

---

Non organic cow are usually given antibiotics along with those hormones, so typically have less instances of infections. Of course, you now are being exposed to those antibiotics and hormones so there is a tradeoff.

You would think that those cows would be sold off, but it is a pain in the butt to get an cow certified organic so most farmers aren't going to let that cow go. It would make sense to do that, but economically it isn't as feasible.

Also another odd fact is that spoiled milk will not make you sick. It's nasty and tastes gross, but my stepsister is also a vet and they made them all drink it to prove the point. Gross.

I'm not saying organic milk is bad, but it has it's downsides as well. If it's what you prefer to drink then go for it! :gj:

Quote:

---

I have one thing to say about cow's milk, goat's milk etc.

They are created to raise THEIR young, not ours.

I rather raise my kids to be nuts... Hence why we drink nut mylk!

Easy to make:

Take a cup or two of raw almonds, cashews, hazelnuts, sesame seeds... Whatever mylk you want to make. Soak them overnight in water.

Next morning, drain off the water and place the nuts in your blender with a few cups of water (if you want a dash of salt, a little hemp/flax oil and even some agave or honey to sweeten although these are not necessary) - blend.

Strain the mylk and put the pulp back into your blender with more water. Blend.

Strain again. Now set the mylk in the fridge to chill and put the pulp in the freezer to use to make raw cookies later!

You will LOVE this mylk and it's soooooooooooooooooo good for you.

---

Wow that sounds really nice! I may have to try it.

Let me add that the cattle I get milk from, and my own personal goats, are completely allowed to raise their young with their milk. I would never interfere with that natural part of life! But with proper milking, they will continue to give milk for a long while after weaning their young, especially since they are not forced to breed again immedietly after. Take my goats for example:

They kid, and the kids are properly raised on mommy's delicious milk until weaning time, usually between 8-10 weeks, depending on the kid(s) itself. Then they are seperated or go to new homes, which is tramatic at first, but part of life, I can't keep them all! Then Momma Goat will continue to give milk for up to ten months, though I usually don't allow that to go on so long. They are rebred perhaps halfway through the lactation cycle, then dried off at the end of it, giving them two to three months rest before here comes the new little babies. This is pretty close to the way the cattle are treated by my neighbor. It works great and the goats and cows are happy and healthy!

Anyways, back to the actual milk, I don't drink it. I'm terribly lactose intolerant. My husband, however, LOVES milk, and of course I use it, along with cheese, butter, cream, etc, in cooking and I do like a tiny splash on my cereal. We love ice cream as well! So milk is a must in the house, and I am happy in the knowledge that my milk is clean, healthy, and comes from happy animals. My eggs too!

:)

(Sorry for all the babbling, I just really enjoy this topic!)

Cows are happy being milked anyway...it feels good, relives pressure that a calf can't, it also can prevent many problems and viruses.:D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stangs13

Cows are happy being milked anyway...it feels good, relives pressure that a calf can't, it also can prevent many problems and viruses.:D

---

Oh, you know this for a fact, huh? From personal experience maybe? :rolleyes:

Anyway, humans are the ONLY species on the planet that not only drinks the milk of another species but also continues to drink it long after the body needs it. Milk is very fattening, and is supposed to be used only for growing babies.

I can't say for a fact that it makes the cow/goat happy, but I do know that nowadays, cattle and goats have been selectively bred to produce more milk for a longer period of time, more than their calf or kids can drink. I do know that my goats willingly go onto the milk stand, and I know the dairy cattle become terribly uncomfortable and will "call" to their owner during milk time. Do they enjoy it? I have no idea, I'm not a goat/cow! And yes, milking properly and regularily and drying off properly prevents issues with the udder. Before someone says it, yes, a natural weaning of a kid/calf would do this as well, most of the time, but sadly in this world natural weanings are few and far between.

Yes, we humans are a bit weird in this aspect, but it sure seems like you need milk for so many darn things. So I do the best I can by providing the best care for my goats and never buying milk or milk products that come from those poor cows in the commercial dairies.

I hate PETA too :) I am a card carrying carnivore, yes. All of the meat that I eat though, I know its source. My husband hunts every year, and he is a dead shooter; he does not let a deer suffer. I have watched him on 3 hunts in the past year.. bam, that deer does not know what hit it. If you think that hunting is evil.. tell that to the wolves and tigers and other predators! Their ways of killing are much more inhumane than my husband shooting a deer with one shot. We cut them up and process the meat rigt here by ourselves.. I don't trust others' conditions.. after seeing a pretty large-scale deer-processing place.. yuck!
To go into discussing the types of deer that are hunted, you really need to have a knowledge of herd dynamics. Most he-man hunters that go out to hunt for antlers, the type that discards a nice meaty carcass and takes home the "horns.." those are not true woodsmen or women. At least take the carcass to a food bank or something.. Now back to what I was saying. A real hunter and woodsperson will take a limited amount of big bucks.. usually, by hubby just gets some Does, because the bucks are not large enough, and are still growing. People that will shoot at anything are just being imbeciles and not doing anything to help the herds IMO. If hunting were banned.. without having all of the natural predators that humans have killed off.. deer would be hugely overpopulated and sickly from starvation every winter.
We also get beef and pork from some friends of ours that farm. I can personally go see the animals that they raise at any time, and I am satisfied that their conditions are optimal. The beefers live their lives out in a huge pasture, with a shed if they want it. The hogs have outside access and clean quarters. They are taken to a local slaughtering plant that I have seen myself.
I try to make the smallest footprint on earth that I can. I figure this.. I never plan on having kids. So that in itself gives me some "woggle room" and that includes driving a somewhat uneconomical (though necessary 4x4) vehicle. I also get my power from infinite sources.. wind turbines!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mindibun

Oh, you know this for a fact, huh? From personal experience maybe? :rolleyes:

---

Yep, and the last time I checked...a few hours ago might I add..the cow was pretty restless...we are in the process of weaning her calf and this means separating them, and in the short few hours they were apart milk can really build up and cause discomfort for the cow. This also happens Pre-birth. :gj:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

I hate PETA too :) I am a card carrying carnivore, yes. All of the meat that I eat though, I know its source. My husband hunts every year, and he is a dead shooter; he does not let a deer suffer. I have watched him on 3 hunts in the past year.. bam, that deer does not know what hit it. If you think that hunting is evil.. tell that to the wolves and tigers and other predators! Their ways of killing are much more inhumane than my husband shooting a deer with one shot. We cut them up and process the meat rigt here by ourselves.. I don't trust others' conditions.. after seeing a pretty large-scale deer-processing place.. yuck!
To go into discussing the types of deer that are hunted, you really need to have a knowledge of herd dynamics. Most he-man hunters that go out to hunt for antlers, the type that discards a nice meaty carcass and takes home the "horns.." those are not true woodsmen or women. At least take the carcass to a food bank or something.. Now back to what I was saying. A real hunter and woodsperson will take a limited amount of big bucks.. usually, by hubby just gets some Does, because the bucks are not large enough, and are still growing. People that will shoot at anything are just being imbeciles and not doing anything to help the herds IMO. If hunting were banned.. without having all of the natural predators that humans have killed off.. deer would be hugely overpopulated and sickly from starvation every winter.
We also get beef and pork from some friends of ours that farm. I can personally go see the animals that they raise at any time, and I am satisfied that their conditions are optimal. The beefers live their lives out in a huge pasture, with a shed if they want it. The hogs have outside access and clean quarters. They are taken to a local slaughtering plant that I have seen myself.
I try to make the smallest footprint on earth that I can. I figure this.. I never plan on having kids. So that in itself gives me some "woggle room" and that includes driving a somewhat uneconomical (though necessary 4x4) vehicle. I also get my power from infinite sources.. wind turbines!

---

Sweeet post!!!:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ginevive

I hate PETA too :) I am a card carrying carnivore, yes. All of the meat that I eat though, I know its source. My husband hunts every year, and he is a dead shooter; he does not let a deer suffer. I have watched him on 3 hunts in the past year.. bam, that deer does not know what hit it. If you think that hunting is evil.. tell that to the wolves and tigers and other predators! Their ways of killing are much more inhumane than my husband shooting a deer with one shot. We cut them up and process the meat rigt here by ourselves.. I don't trust others' conditions.. after seeing a pretty large-scale deer-processing place.. yuck!
To go into discussing the types of deer that are hunted, you really need to have a knowledge of herd dynamics. Most he-man hunters that go out to hunt for antlers, the type that discards a nice meaty carcass and takes home the "horns.." those are not true woodsmen or women. At least take the carcass to a food bank or something.. Now back to what I was saying. A real hunter and woodsperson will take a limited amount of big bucks.. usually, by hubby just gets some Does, because the bucks are not large enough, and are still growing. People that will shoot at anything are just being imbeciles and not doing anything to help the herds IMO. If hunting were banned.. without having all of the natural predators that humans have killed off.. deer would be hugely overpopulated and sickly from starvation every winter.
We also get beef and pork from some friends of ours that farm. I can personally go see the animals that they raise at any time, and I am satisfied that their conditions are optimal. The beefers live their lives out in a huge pasture, with a shed if they want it. The hogs have outside access and clean quarters. They are taken to a local slaughtering plant that I have seen myself.
I try to make the smallest footprint on earth that I can. I figure this.. I never plan on having kids. So that in itself gives me some "woggle room" and that includes driving a somewhat uneconomical (though necessary 4x4) vehicle. I also get my power from infinite sources.. wind turbines!

---

I'm glad that you have chosen to eat meat in such a responsible manner. To societies issue with animal treatment in farm factories, you're virtually a vegetarian. ;]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by recycling goddess

I have one thing to say about cow's milk, goat's milk etc.

They are created to raise THEIR young, not ours.

I rather raise my kids to be nuts... hence why we drink nut mylk! :)

Easy to make:

Take a cup or two of raw almonds, cashews, hazelnuts, sesame seeds... whatever mylk you want to make. Soak them overnight in water.

Next morning, drain off the water and place the nuts in your blender with a few cups of water (if you want a dash of salt, a little hemp/flax oil and even some agave or honey to sweeten although these are not necessary) - blend.

Strain the mylk and put the pulp back into your blender with more water. Blend.

Strain again. Now set the mylk in the fridge to chill and put the pulp in the freezer to use to make raw cookies later!

You will LOVE this mylk and it's soooooooooooooooooo good for you.

---

Mmmm. That sounds delicious! I'm not a big fan of milk in general, but I do like soy milk. That certainly sounds good! Thank you for the recipe. :]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stangs13

Thanks for clearing what you meant by older for me!

While there are bad packing plants, feedlots, chicken houses, hog barns there are WAY more good ones. Its just like anything, the bad is more visible than the good. I speak from personal experience that those bad lots/houses/plants DON'T last long.

Very few chicken farmers inject GH into there chickens anymore. The standard broiler cross chicken will grow HUGE and weight around 8+ pounds in 6 weeks. And they will still be able to walk. But I am glad you see that there is more than just the bad that is shown. I really wish I could type forever on this subject as I am an agfreak, and my parents have worked and managed feedlots, hog barns, and at packing plants.


I am to used to seeing people that jump all over places like that because of what they see on TV, when they or the media have NO idea what they are talking about! But I am very glad you are an exception!:D

---

Thank you. I wish in the suburban/city areas it was easier to pick and choose, because I probably would. However, right now I'm not eating meat because of what is going on in those few factory farms. Even with the very good ones out there, I can't accept what the others are doing to the animals. :[
I didn't know that about GH! Interesting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Epona142

I can't say for a fact that it makes the cow/goat happy, but I do know that nowadays, cattle and goats have been selectively bred to produce more milk for a longer period of time, more than their calf or kids can drink. I do know that my goats willingly go onto the milk stand, and I know the dairy cattle become terribly uncomfortable and will "call" to their owner during milk time. Do they enjoy it? I have no idea, I'm not a goat/cow! And yes, milking properly and regularily and drying off properly prevents issues with the udder. Before someone says it, yes, a natural weaning of a kid/calf would do this as well, most of the time, but sadly in this world natural weanings are few and far between.

Yes, we humans are a bit weird in this aspect, but it sure seems like you need milk for so many darn things. So I do the best I can by providing the best care for my goats and never buying milk or milk products that come from those poor cows in the commercial dairies.

---

I highly agree with you Epona, couldn't have said it better myself.

As for the whole organic vs inorganic milk thing I have a couple things to say about that.
Well first of all, there are other ways of treating illnesses other than antibiotics. Many of which are natural.
When someone says that organic farms don't use pesticides, they are more than wrong. They use lots of pesticides, but all of the pesticides they use are organic and safe for the environment.
It's the same with organic dairy cows. If one gets sick it may not be treated with antibiotics, but it could be healed with something completely organic 'certified'. :]
Remember, some of the most dangerous chemicals out there are 'organic' or 'natural'.

Just my 2c on the subject. I don't like milk anyway but I do think organic tastes richer and fuller than normal milk, as well as it not being homogenized and pasteurized.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

I don't like milk anyway but I do think organic tastes richer and fuller than normal milk, as well as it not being homogenized and pasteurized.

---

Just to clarify for those who may not know, the organic milk sold in regular grocery stores IS homogenized and pasteurized. I believe there are places where you can buy raw organic milk, but I have never seen it in a mainstream store.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kc261

Just to clarify for those who may not know, the organic milk sold in regular grocery stores IS homogenized and pasteurized. I believe there are places where you can buy raw organic milk, but I have never seen it in a mainstream store.

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Trader Joes sells Organic unhomogenized and unpasteurized milk. It doesn't last as long and you have to shake it up before you pour it. :]

There are actually certified organic meats from animals that were raised on cruelty-free farms, and some meat products such as eggs are free range and cage free. Perhaps you can go out and get a vegan cookbook or an organic cookbook, and when you find a recipe you really like, make a large portion of it to put in the freezer for future meals. This will add some variety to your diet and you can save a lot of money that way too! I am in waya vegetarian, but I have a kick ass recipe for a vegetable chili that calls for millet (yes, millet!) that amazingly tastes like it has meat in it!

Aleesha, what is the recipe for this delicious-good-for-you "green smoothie" you mention? :please: