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Mite Killers

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  • 07-23-2008, 03:02 PM
    blackcrystal22
    Mite Killers
    Answer the Poll for what type of Mite killer YOU use.

    What kinds of mite killers are you familiar with that you think work the most effectively?
    Any thoughts specifically on RBI's reptile relief?
  • 07-23-2008, 03:05 PM
    cassandra
    Re: Mite Killers
    Provent a Mite, aka PAM. Follow the directions on the can. Reptile Relief not needed if you use PAM. =)
  • 07-23-2008, 03:17 PM
    rabernet
    Re: Mite Killers
    Reptile Relief will give your animal immediate relief, but it will not prevent eggs from hatching, and mites will return in about a 30 day cycle.

    PAM completely erradicates mites. I've only ever used the two in conjunction when I rescued three ball pythons who were infested with mites and I wanted to kill the mites on them, but I put my money on the PAM to erradicate them. One treatment of PAM and I didn't have to re-treat.

    I pre-treat the enclosure of all new additions with PAM, and I re-treat the enclosures of my existing colony when I bring in new additions to make sure I don't inadvertantly transfer eggs from one animal to another, despite my strict quarantine procedures.

    I figure you can never be TOO safe with your collection.

    PAM also goes with me when I travel to shows, and travel tubs for any new acquisitions are also pre-treated.
  • 07-23-2008, 03:17 PM
    Argentra
    Re: Mite Killers
    I use PAM for the cage and JurassiMite for the snake if needed. PAM rocks but it can NOT be used on the animal. Reptile Relief is similar to JurassiMite.

    I also pre-treat any new enclosure with PAM, and I use it on outside doorways for prevention.
  • 07-23-2008, 04:06 PM
    Mochelem
    Re: Mite Killers
    BK II is not on the list....
  • 07-23-2008, 04:17 PM
    spix14
    Re: Mite Killers
    Lice bedding spray. Exact same active ingredients as PAM, but about 3 bucks a can and I can buy it at walmart.
  • 07-23-2008, 04:29 PM
    dalvers63
    Re: Mite Killers
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by spix14 View Post
    Lice bedding spray. Exact same active ingredients as PAM, but about 3 bucks a can and I can buy it at walmart.

    I always used PAM and then did a comparisson through the Insecticide lists of the governement. The lice bedding spray has the exact same ingredients as PAM, and as spix14 pointed out, it's a lot cheaper.

    I just treated my whole collection again for 40 days (using sprayed and dried newsprint) with no ill effects at all.
  • 07-23-2008, 04:43 PM
    broadude
    Re: Mite Killers
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by rabernet View Post
    Reptile Relief will give your animal immediate relief, but it will not prevent eggs from hatching, and mites will return in about a 30 day cycle.

    PAM completely erradicates mites. I've only ever used the two in conjunction when I rescued three ball pythons who were infested with mites and I wanted to kill the mites on them, but I put my money on the PAM to erradicate them. One treatment of PAM and I didn't have to re-treat.

    I pre-treat the enclosure of all new additions with PAM, and I re-treat the enclosures of my existing colony when I bring in new additions to make sure I don't inadvertantly transfer eggs from one animal to another, despite my strict quarantine procedures.

    I figure you can never be TOO safe with your collection.

    PAM also goes with me when I travel to shows, and travel tubs for any new acquisitions are also pre-treated.


    Ditto, with a few other additions. I also pre-treat bedding about once every 3 months. **Spray it on the Aspen, shake it up and use as needed (when I was using paper, I pre-treated the paper).

    Treat animals before bringing them in with RR and have their tubs pretreated and the area where I open the box, too. Haven't had a mite infestation yet...knock on wood!:please:
  • 07-23-2008, 06:50 PM
    rabernet
    Re: Mite Killers
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dalvers63 View Post
    I always used PAM and then did a comparisson through the Insecticide lists of the governement. The lice bedding spray has the exact same ingredients as PAM, and as spix14 pointed out, it's a lot cheaper.

    I just treated my whole collection again for 40 days (using sprayed and dried newsprint) with no ill effects at all.

    Not worth it to ME to save a few bucks on a product that hasn't been tested for use on reptiles. Might be fine now - but what are the long term effects? Just something to think about? I've invested a lot in my collection, I'd rather have piece of mind to use the only product that's been tested safe for reptiles, rather than a cheap imitation.
  • 07-23-2008, 06:57 PM
    rabernet
    Re: Mite Killers
    One other thing to consider - just because something has the same ingredients, doesn't mean that the concentrations are the same.

    If someone chooses to use a cheaper alternative, at least be fully armed with the knowledge that there are risks for taking a gamble. :)
  • 07-23-2008, 07:09 PM
    jglass38
    Re: Mite Killers
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by rabernet View Post
    One other thing to consider - just because something has the same ingredients, doesn't mean that the concentrations are the same.

    If someone chooses to use a cheaper alternative, at least be fully armed with the knowledge that there are risks for taking a gamble. :)

    Rock on Robin! Great post.
  • 07-23-2008, 07:12 PM
    jglass38
    Re: Mite Killers
    A little light reading for everyone from one of my posts in a mite thread awhile back. Of course the main proponent for using home brew remedies is the same person who sent a mite covered snake to a forum member. :rolleyes: Take it as you wish...

    Here is the link to the thread: http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ighlight=mites

    And my post:

    I spent about 30 minutes on the phone with Bob Pound, the manufacturer of Provent A Mite. He may be the most knowledgeable person about pest control and the chemicals used this side of my local exterminator. I am sure the information that he provided which I will post here will be dismissed as bias by those who believe beyond a reasonable doubt that Equate is:

    A. The same product in a different can
    B. Equally as safe for reptiles
    C. Equally as effective

    Take it as you will, but this information is pretty damn convincing in my mind (which may not be on par with some of the insta-experts that reside here).

    Here you go (his direct information will be in quotes):

    Claim: Equate is the same product in a different can and is equally safe for reptiles as Provent A Mite

    "The word permethrin is a generic name of a group of pyrethroid chemical isomers. This is like saying everything with the word soap is the same thing. Put your wet hand into a box of powdered laundry detergent and see if it is the same as a bar of ivory, but they are both "soap".

    Without exception, these other products use a much more toxic isomer as they are all designed to be applied to material that maybe will have the potential for contact with mammals, which have a completely different physiology than reptiles do. These products are designed to be as toxic as possible to get a quick "knock down". These higher toxicities will not harm mammals, but are documented to harm lower vertebrates, including reptiles, fish, amphibians, mollusks and so forth and therefore can be used for these other uses. Also, only a very small percentage of what is in the can is the "active" ingredient, the rest is always a trade secret of the company, so will never be disclosed (only the generic active name has to be disclosed under EPA regulations). Different isomers have differing toxicities and again, only a range of the cis-trans ratio is given on a label, so one can never find out what is really in the can (again trade secret).

    Since a product is only approved by the EPA for the uses listed on the label, chemicals in the formula that are not toxic to the host for the testing submitted, doesn't mean they would not be toxic to a host not listed. If fact many of the "inerts" used in these permethrin formulas are toxic to reptiles. If the company tried to receive EPA approval with these formulas for use on reptiles, they would not, as the EPA would not allow a product to be sold that would harm the host listed on the label. This is why the EPA regulations state that it is a federal offense to sell or use a product inconsistent with the label, not only because of the risk to the host, but also because such usage can create resistance.

    Many products for example, use a more toxic isomer and then use a synergist such as PBO. PBO breaks through the insect's defense and its synergistic activity makes the insecticide more powerful and effective. With the high cost of insecticides, PBO effectively reduces the cost by allowing the product to use les s active ingredient to obtain the mortality rate desired. The problem with this is PBO is absolutely toxic to reptiles with several published studies regarding using PBO for the killing of brown tree and other snakes confirming this.

    Despite anyone's claim to the contrary, many of these other "identical" products have injured and killed many reptiles as we get the phone calls from people telling us after the fact. Also many times, the exposure can lead to chronic health problems instead of an acute reaction, so if the animal dies at a later date, no one looks back and understands the actual cause of death. This is a classic example with no pest strips. No clinical studies were ever performed and people just started using them, using their animals as guinea pigs. Only after many years of usage were the risks associated with them disclosed. This has been established by many leading zoos and vets, but even now, many people still swear they are the best thing to use and do not pose any risk."

    Provent-a-mite™ is the only product that has been approved by the EPA and USDA], has undergone extensive clinical and field studies to insure that will eliminate, not just control a mite or tick problem and is unique enough to have received a patent. No other product is more effective or can make these claims and certainly no other product is the same as Provent-a-mite™”


    Claim: Equate (and other similar products) are equally as effective in killing mites and their eggs


    "Provent-a-mite™ is the only product that will create residual protection that will not drop down to levels that can create resistance. We use a proprietary "time" release that ensures that it will create a long term residual effect at a high enough concentration to prevent the potential t o create resistant pests. Since mites and ticks can carry several diseases that can be harmful or fatal to the host, just getting an infestation is already too late if the pest was infected. Applying Provent-a-mite™to a cloth and then wiping around any openings in a cage will provide a barrier that will last a minimum of 30 days (usually 60 to 180 days). This will kill any ectoparasites before they can infest and potentially infect an animal. None of these other products can do this as their formulas are designed to break down very quickly, often in as little as 48 hours.

    Provent-a-mite™ is also one of the least expensive methods when one compares the cost per application and the number of applications required. To treat an average 4' x 2' cage is approximately 50˘ with usually only one application required. To use the product preventatively, the cost for an average cage is about 5˘. The product has an average shelf life of 7 years. One of the biggest problems is that many people overuse the product, so the can will not treat as many cages as it actually should, costing more to use it than necessary.”
  • 07-23-2008, 09:40 PM
    blackcrystal22
    Re: Mite Killers
    Oh wow.
    Well, that was a very informative post jglass! Very much appreciated. It changed my mind as I was going to go with the lice killer idea until I read your post, so thanks a lot for that.

    Thanks to everyone else too for your answers, very much appreciated.
  • 07-23-2008, 11:17 PM
    stangs13
    Re: Mite Killers
    Jamie, What is equate? Is it the lice bedding spray? I guess it is to late for my teenage brain to be working, as I could barely understand the article...equate shouldn't be used on herps right? I guess thats what its saying.
  • 07-23-2008, 11:17 PM
    TanyaL
    Re: Mite Killers
    A while back I asked about a PAM alternative, namely a Walmart generic product. I'm happy to say that I got schooled! Here is the link to that thread: http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ITE%2C+walmart

    My snake is a pet and is certainly worth the $20-something I paid for a can of PAM. I tried repti-relief with little success. After doing a full tank cleaning and using a new bag of substrate loaded (and I mean LOADED) with mites, I finally ordered PAM. All it took was one simple (and I mean SIMPLE) treatment with PAM and the mites have been gone since! It's been at least two months and still no mites in site! My poor girl used to soak in her water dish because of the darn things but since treating with PAM, I have yet to see her soak. The downside of PAM is that I see her only when I take her out, and for the snake's sake, that's a good thing!

    Bottom line is that my snake is worth the $20 difference! In fact, I have a bottle of repti-relief that is free for the taking...just pay for shipping! I won't be needing it anymore.
  • 07-23-2008, 11:17 PM
    Argentra
    Re: Mite Killers
    I try to never skimp on anything for my critters. If it's known to be safe and it works, then I'll get it. 'Knock-off' products aren't always what they seem, and I'd rather not risk my pets health to save a few bucks.

    My own health... that's different. :D ;)
  • 07-24-2008, 06:14 AM
    jglass38
    Re: Mite Killers
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by stangs13 View Post
    Jamie, What is equate? Is it the lice bedding spray? I guess it is to late for my teenage brain to be working, as I could barely understand the article...equate shouldn't be used on herps right? I guess thats what its saying.

    Equate is Walmart's brand of bedding lice spray. Made for...bedding! :)
  • 07-24-2008, 11:25 AM
    megabrain
    Re: Mite Killers
    I use PAM, and it works great. I love it!

    I had an ant problem in my apartment, and after trying everything to get rid of them, I got frustrated one night, and sprayed some PAM into the hole in the wall they were coming out of. No more ants for about 30 days now. I'm sure they'll be back, but maybe not until next summer.

    I think if earth is invaded by aliens, PAM will be a useful defense. :)
  • 07-24-2008, 11:40 AM
    cassandra
    Re: Mite Killers
    Cool post Jamie...neat that the PAM guy shared so much info. =)

    Also a bonus: the PAM can packaging looks like it was made by the Dharma Initiative, so cool is that? =D
  • 07-24-2008, 11:40 AM
    cassandra
    Re: Mite Killers
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by megabrain View Post
    I think if earth is invaded by aliens, PAM will be a useful defense. :)

    can't - breathe - laughing - so - hard! :rofl:
  • 07-24-2008, 12:18 PM
    jglass38
    Re: Mite Killers
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cassandra View Post
    Cool post Jamie...neat that the PAM guy shared so much info. =)

    Also a bonus: the PAM can packaging looks like it was made by the Dharma Initiative, so cool is that? =D

    Bob is a good guy and super knowledgeable. Of course he is a businessman but he truly cares about animals and making sure they are safe! :gj:
  • 07-24-2008, 12:49 PM
    spix14
    Re: Mite Killers
    Jglass, do you mind if I quote your post in another forum I go to? It's where I first got the advice to use the bedding spray-I'd like to see their views on it.
  • 07-24-2008, 01:11 PM
    jglass38
    Re: Mite Killers
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by spix14 View Post
    Jglass, do you mind if I quote your post in another forum I go to? It's where I first got the advice to use the bedding spray-I'd like to see their views on it.

    Go to it..Just know that you'll get a range of responses. Just look back at the original thread. A lot of people will think their way is better and some will even say that Bob said what he did to just make more money. I say to people, take it as you will. In the end, they have to be responsible for their animals and deal with the consequences if something bad happens!

    Good luck!
  • 07-24-2008, 01:18 PM
    spix14
    Re: Mite Killers
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jglass38 View Post
    Go to it..Just know that you'll get a range of responses. Just look back at the original thread. A lot of people will think their way is better and some will even say that Bob said what he did to just make more money. I say to people, take it as you will. In the end, they have to be responsible for their animals and deal with the consequences if something bad happens!

    Good luck!

    Thanks! The advice came from someone I trust-in the sense that I know she would not put her animals at risk to save a buck or two. I'm curious to know if she's talked about it with her vet, or if anyone else that has used it has either. I myself used it to great effect when I had a new arrival come in with mites, and have noticed no problems...but as was stated, there's no way to know what the long term effects are and to be honest, I wasn't aware of the fact that there were different types of permithrins(sp?). I assumed (and you know what they say about that:rolleyes: ) that since the active ingredients and percentages of same were the same, that it was the same product for all intents and purposes. Much the same as buying Tylonol or the store brand version. If you'd like, and with her permission, I'll post back here what her vet had to say if she spoke to him about it.
  • 07-24-2008, 01:27 PM
    jglass38
    Re: Mite Killers
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by spix14 View Post
    Thanks! The advice came from someone I trust-in the sense that I know she would not put her animals at risk to save a buck or two. I'm curious to know if she's talked about it with her vet, or if anyone else that has used it has either. I myself used it to great effect when I had a new arrival come in with mites, and have noticed no problems...but as was stated, there's no way to know what the long term effects are and to be honest, I wasn't aware of the fact that there were different types of permithrins(sp?). I assumed (and you know what they say about that:rolleyes: ) that since the active ingredients and percentages of same were the same, that it was the same product for all intents and purposes. Much the same as buying Tylonol or the store brand version. If you'd like, and with her permission, I'll post back here what her vet had to say if she spoke to him about it.

    Absolutely! Over the years that I have kept snakes I have been twice sent a snake with mites. The first one was early on and I had little experience. I picked up a lice treatment used for humans at a drugstore (on the advice of an experienced keeper) and used it with success and no ill effects that I am aware of. The second time I used Reptile Relief because I had no PAM at the time. The Reptile Relief worked for right around a month and then the mites were back. I used it again and ordered PAM and never saw another mite. This discussion isn't about what I choose to do as an experienced keeper in my collection. It's about what I choose to recommend to people that are new to the hobby like I was back then. I would feel horrible if I told someone to use a product not made for treating reptile mites and the person's snake died. I don't need that on my conscience. Also, I know for a fact that the residual effect of PAM isn't something available in those other products. As an aside, of course strict quarantine methods are key. They can be the difference between one snake with mites or your whole collection with mites.
  • 07-24-2008, 01:59 PM
    spix14
    Re: Mite Killers
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jglass38 View Post
    Absolutely! Over the years that I have kept snakes I have been twice sent a snake with mites. The first one was early on and I had little experience. I picked up a lice treatment used for humans at a drugstore (on the advice of an experienced keeper) and used it with success and no ill effects that I am aware of. The second time I used Reptile Relief because I had no PAM at the time. The Reptile Relief worked for right around a month and then the mites were back. I used it again and ordered PAM and never saw another mite. This discussion isn't about what I choose to do as an experienced keeper in my collection. It's about what I choose to recommend to people that are new to the hobby like I was back then. I would feel horrible if I told someone to use a product not made for treating reptile mites and the person's snake died. I don't need that on my conscience. Also, I know for a fact that the residual effect of PAM isn't something available in those other products. As an aside, of course strict quarantine methods are key. They can be the difference between one snake with mites or your whole collection with mites.

    I get where you're coming from. There's a lot of things I feel confident doing as a more experienced keeper that I wouldn't recommend brand new snake owners do.
  • 07-24-2008, 03:16 PM
    FIREball
    Re: Mite Killers
    Bk Ii...
  • 09-06-2008, 05:41 PM
    FloridaHogs
    Re: Mite Killers
    The only time I ever had mites was with two eastern hognose that came in a couple years ago. Hognoses do show a sensitivity to PAM, and a few hobbiest have reported deaths. The majority of my collection consist of hoggies, so I had to look for alternative methods. What I found was out of a vet text book. Diluted listerine soak (this setrilizes any bugs on the animal), and a mineral oil rub down, being careful around the nose (this smothers any remaining bugs and eggs). Repeat in two weeks. Poison free, and I haven't seen a mite since. Just an alternative for some that are concerned with the use of poisons. I did consult with my vet before I followed this.
  • 09-07-2008, 07:00 AM
    frankykeno
    Re: Mite Killers
    The way I figure it is this. PAM's been tested as safe to use (on the enclosure, NOT on the snake - read any directions on anything you use first. :))

    $20 won't buy my family a night of pizza. $20 won't touch my monthly electric bill. $20 won't put much gas in a car anymore. $20 won't buy a pair of jeans or a pair of shoes for one of my teenagers. $20 is $20.

    Save money anyway you can that is reasonable and safe, I'm all for that. Saving a measly $20 on a product that's never been tested as safe for snakes seems the wrong place to do so, at least to me. I can't do much with $20 these days - but I sure can make sure saving that $20 didn't put my beloved collection at an unnecessary risk.
  • 03-01-2009, 03:33 AM
    southb
    Re: Mite Killers
    I used reptile relief for 2-3 years because it was the only thing I could buy locally. The bottle said to spray once ever 3 days and you could use it on the reptile as long as it wasn't running off. Well......every three days leaves you with still having a mite problem. I had to use it once a day for almost 7 days before it would totally get rid of mites. I ordered some PAM, was given a female breeder that had mites, before putting her in QT I sprayed the tub with the PAM. Waited til the next morning and took her from the bag put her in tub.....well no more mites with only 1 treatment!!! It's way worth the 27$ I paid in total for it. I mean come on guys, whats the health of your animals worth to you? I'm not a big time breeder and most of mine are family pets so they are worth alot more to me than just wait money I've put into them.
  • 03-01-2009, 03:38 AM
    joshn6805
    Re: Mite Killers
    i have been lucky.....never had a single mite.
  • 03-01-2009, 04:02 AM
    STORMS
    Re: Mite Killers
    PAM all the way... I used reptile relief (with NO success) while I was waiting for the PAM to arrive... I would never spend another cent on any of that crap. If my reptiles get Mites - I get PAM. Period. End of story ;)
  • 03-01-2009, 08:24 AM
    Dave763
    Re: Mite Killers
    PAM is the best. I have also used Frontline spray with no ill effects. Mites and ticks are both arachnids.
    I have hot seen a mite in over two years.
  • 05-23-2009, 07:21 PM
    TheOtherLeadingBrand
    Re: Mite Killers
    We bug bombed the room (obviously we took all the snakes out first, duh, but people have asked!) and bleached (soaked) all the tanks, then washed and rinsed the tanks, and treated the snakes with the Zoo Med product.
  • 05-25-2009, 01:57 AM
    XGetSome
    Re: Mite Killers
    Equate bedding spray. Same thing as Provent A mite, Ive used it with 100% success, never saw another mite, and never had a snake die from it. Basically inert ingredients and the Permethrin content in it and Provent A Mite are identical. Some people are gunna argue this fact....but I pay 4$ for Equate, and can run to walmart to get it. Provent A Mite is 18$ and I have to order it....There are numerous Die Hard Provent A Mite fans here that will bash me for saying this. I know because ive watched the EXACT same people on other forums come in and defend it against other people with similar claims to mine.

    Anyways.....Equate bedding Spray and Provent A Mite are the same thing. I dont buy the manufacturers claims, especially when I saw the ingredients to be Identical on a Government website. EITHER way....I can attest i saw a huge Mite outbreak, be completely demolished from 1 treatment from equate, and no snakes Harmed.:gj:
  • 05-25-2009, 02:06 AM
    McAdry
    Re: Mite Killers
    Lol use Pam, I would say more but the wife and Robin have already posted so I will just say that we have never had mite's but if we do get some we would use pam.
  • 05-25-2009, 02:07 AM
    eMonk
    Re: Mite Killers
    Which section of Walmart is Equate Bedding Spray found? I don't have a mite problem in my setup but good to know if I do in the future.
  • 05-25-2009, 02:11 AM
    XGetSome
    Re: Mite Killers
    Most breeders in the Industry, Ralphie, BHB, etc use PAM. Its Permethrin Based product wich is all I use after failed attempts with other products. And is by far the best option listed in this Poll. It works because it kills The EGGS that mites lay as well as the mites themselves. Ive literally seen mites dissapear for a month, and just explode in population again in a friends collection. With no new snakes added. Why? He killed all the mites, but the eggs were all over in his tubs, Permethrin (Provent A Mite) eliminates this problem.
  • 05-28-2009, 03:32 PM
    Faber
    Re: Mite Killers
    Man i really wanna buy equate because my snake is suffering and i can get that withen 20 minutes, but then again he's only a baby so ill probably go with pam. If i use pam does that mean i can keep all of the tank furniture if i use pam?
  • 05-28-2009, 03:43 PM
    JeffJ
    Re: Mite Killers
    wityh pam you keep EVERYTHING except the waterbowl in there. spray it down. wait for 1-1.5 hours then put the water bowl and snake back in there. the pam will kill any live mites on the substrate or furnature. and when they eggs hatch the residual pam will kill them too in 30 days.
  • 05-28-2009, 03:55 PM
    Faber
    Re: Mite Killers
    also it says not to use most mite meds right after shedding, why is this? also should i treat my snake now, his eyes are just starting to blue.
  • 05-28-2009, 03:57 PM
    JeffJ
    Re: Mite Killers
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Faber View Post
    also it says not to use most mite meds right after shedding, why is this? also should i treat my snake now, his eyes are just starting to blue.

    i use pam. and it does not mention anything about a shed cycle. and last time i sprayed my bp was in the very early stages of a shed. he is doing just fine right now.
  • 05-29-2009, 09:01 AM
    adrenalinejunkie
    Re: Mite Killers
    I've used Reptile Relief when one of my lizards got mites and I haven't seen mites since in any of my cages so there was no transfer.. It worked well for me.
  • 05-29-2009, 03:25 PM
    Repsrul
    Re: Mite Killers
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by rabernet View Post
    Not worth it to ME to save a few bucks on a product that hasn't been tested for use on reptiles. Might be fine now - but what are the long term effects? Just something to think about? I've invested a lot in my collection, I'd rather have piece of mind to use the only product that's been tested safe for reptiles, rather than a cheap imitation.

    I was thinking the same exact thing. This has been brought up numerous times on other forums and it goes nowhere. I personally use BK II. It is amazing how quick and affective it is.
  • 05-29-2009, 03:43 PM
    Repsrul
    Re: Mite Killers
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JeffJ View Post
    i use pam. and it does not mention anything about a shed cycle. and last time i sprayed my bp was in the very early stages of a shed. he is doing just fine right now.

    You said and I quote "and last time i sprayed my bp", You dont actually spray your BP do you?
  • 05-29-2009, 09:10 PM
    SugarFox03
    Re: Mite Killers
    I use Black Knight II. Works great, hard to find though. If I didn't have access to this (local reptile store sells it) I'd definitely invest in a can of PAM just to keep handy. Or maybe I'd try that Walmart Equate stuff people are mentioning. Hopefully I won't have to use it again, and it just becomes a very expensive roach killer (hey, I live in S FL and it's summer - we get some roaches here!)
  • 05-29-2009, 09:35 PM
    vangarret2000
    Re: Mite Killers
    I use a NIX solution. I discovered mites earlyer this week on my new CCP.
  • 06-02-2009, 02:42 PM
    promist
    Re: Mite Killers
    I would appreciate the opportunity to respond to some of the comments made on this thread. It was recently brought to my attention by a fellow herper.

    Mites have always been a major problem and until recent years, no specific products were developed and tested for use specifically with reptiles. For this reason, throughout the years, our industry has tried numerous “home remedies”, many with adverse consequences, some acute, but many causing long term chronic problems, affecting the animal even months or years later.

    Being involved with reptiles for 50 years, I too had my share of problems with mites and other ectoparasites. Because of my professional background, knowledge of pesticides and involvement in the pesticide industry, I was able to develop a product specially designed for reptiles that was truly effective and would not cause any health problems, either acute or chronic when used as directed.

    Even leading zoos, vets and other qualified people tried many off-label products, only to find out over time that they were harmful to reptiles. Even these well-educated persons are not experts in the field of pesticides, so despite one’s best efforts, no one really knows what is in a particular product or how it will affect a specific host. To further complicate matters, every pesticide product sold has a “master label” filed with the USEPA (proprietary trade secrets, not available to the public). The manufacture can submit several active and other ingredients on the same master label for registration, which once approved by the EPA, the manufacture can then change the product as they wish without any additional notification. So a product that may have seemed to been OK in the past, can be changed and now becomes toxic to a non-labeled host. This just recently happened with one of the “copycat” products people assume is the same as Provent-a-mite and we have received much e-mail regarding this, an example is posted below*.

    Nobody knows what really is in any pesticide, as the manufacture doesn’t have to reveal what the actual formula is or what the specific cis-trans ratio is for the active shown. They can change inert ingredients whenever they want as long as it doesn’t cause any adverse affects to the labeled hosts for the product. Many inerts that are safe for a labeled host will be toxic to other hosts.

    The primary complaint some people have regarding Provent-a-mite is cost. Unfortunately, the specific formula we require is considerably more expensive than these other products. There is currently only one source that produces the active we must have with the cis-trans ratio that we proved through clinical studies would not harm a reptile. Other ranges have absolutely been shown to be toxic to reptiles, but are much less expensive and will normally not harm humans and other higher vertebrates, so are used by other manufactures as it is acceptable for exposure to humans, mammals, plants and inanimate objects, but these other formulas can definitely be toxic to reptiles, other lower vertebrates and invertebrates. We also have to pay the same regulatory fees that every other company has to, regardless of how much product is sold (bigger companies actually get a discount not available to us). Because of this, there is a much higher cost per can that we have to pass on, as we do not sell the quantities each year as these other companies do. So despite some opinions, we are not gouging our customers, this is how much we have to charge based on the circumstances.

    On the other hand, if one examines how much the cost per application is (average 5-50 cents per cage), how much more effective Provent-a-mite is, the reduction of labor and expense to eliminate an infestation as compared to other products, the shelf life of our product (average 7-10 years), the fact that it is the only product that is approved by both the EPA and USDA specifically for use with snakes, lizards and tortoises, is the only product that will provide the long term residual protection required and when used properly, will not pose any risk to a reptile. Provent-a-mite is also the only product that can be used preventatively to stop any disease carrying mites or ticks before they can infect a reptile. Is it worth it to experiment with one’s animals trying other products to save a couple of dollars? Apparently in our industry the answer is yes, even though it has been proven many times to be a tragic mistake.

    I challenge anyone who makes the claim that Provent-a-mite is the same as these other products to provide any documentation to support their claim. Stating the active is the same as other products is like saying all soap is the same because all types are generically called soap. There are many different soap formulas and they are certainly not the same. Try taking a shower with powdered laundry detergent and you will quickly find out it is different than a standard bar of body soap, but they are both soap. Provent-a-mite is a patented product and our formula is a trade secret. Unless one works for one of these other manufactures, they have no clue as to what are really in these other products and certainly do not know if and when the formulations are changed. Just because the name of the active is the same, it doesn’t tell a person what the specific cis-trans ratio is or what any of the inert ingredients are. Only if the product has been approved by the EPA and the label states the product can be used for a specific purpose can one be sure it will not cause any adverse effects when used as directed.

    Regarding mites, ticks and other ectoparasites, one of the biggest risks regarding an infestation not realized by many people is the potential to transmit various diseases to the host reptile. All of the existing treatments currently used, whether seeming effective or not, don’t provide any long term residual protection, so although they may be able to eliminate the ectoparasites in the cage, they will not eliminate the risk of any disease transmission, as they can only be used when an active infestation is discovered. By then, it may be too late as the reptiles have already been fed on, so any pathenogens, bacteria or other risk may have already been transmitted.

    Another problem has to do with eggs. Few, if any products can actually kill the eggs and many manufactures that made these claims (for any type of pest) in the past were fined for making such unsubstantiated claims. The other issue concerning eggs is that usually the adult mite or tick will leave the cage and lay their eggs in a location in the room, not the cage. Not only will this remote location not be treated (whether effective or not), but also based on a term called “degree days”, the temperature at that location directly affects the egg hatch rate and metamorphosis of any sub-adult stages. It is widely assumed that the life cycle of a mite is around 3-4 weeks, but this is when the ambient temperature is in the 80’s. As the temperature drops, the life cycle and hatch time extend, and can result in up to several months before a metamorphosis occurs or the egg hatches. This is a common reason people state that they went through all of the trouble cleaning and disinfecting their collection, only to have mites appear again several months later. Even though the mites in the cage may have been eliminated, the mites infesting the surrounding areas were never affected. Even if the room is maintained at a fairly warm temperature, there are still many areas that will be substantially colder, for example: under the sill plate of an outside wall or in direct contact with a concrete surface. Mites and other ectoparasites survive many months during the colder periods outside, only to become active again when the ambient temperatures support such activity.

    These were some of the initial challenges that had to be addressed during the development and formulating of Provent-a-mite. Not only did the product have to be effective to eliminate an active infestation, but it also had to provide continuous long-term residual protection to kill any ectoparasites before they could infest or re-infest a collection and potentially infect the host, as well as not posing any health risk to the host.

    Looking at other products sold for this purpose, every other product breaks down quickly and has little or no effect once they dry (many are limited even when still wet), so provide no residual protection. This then requires multiple applications, putting the reptile at a greater risk of acquiring a disease from multiple feedings and unless the product is applied directly to the mite or tick, it is not effective, which is practically impossible to do every time. The application rate and required frequency to treat an infestation is much higher, so the final cost to treat an outbreak is more expensive and these products do nothing to kill any mites or ticks weeks or months later when they re-infest a collection from their hiding places outside of the cage.

    These are a few of the more significant reasons Provent-a-mite is different than any other product available and why it is more effective than any other mite treatment approved for use with reptiles.

    Bob Pound promist@comcast.net
    Pro Products www.pro-products.com

    *Straight up honesty here...

    I didn’t believe your provent-a-mite would be any different than lice bedding spray, like what you get at walmart. Same active ingredient at the same concentration. I could not see spending the amount you sell your product at, and having to order it, at least a week away since its ground ship only, and I had an outbreak to deal with ASAP. Well, I treated 12 colubrid cages and a few young boa cages. As per the directions for your product, so far I have lost a hognose snake, and most of the corns are behaving strangely. One of the boas was doing some weird behavior, but seems ok now. Its been 48 hours now. Now I dont know whats going to happen with the corns, one is lethargic, the rest are just doing some herky jerky movements, but seem like they could possibly recover. If you think they are going to die, then I think I should just put them down. If you think they will recover, please let me know before I freeze them. I will never use this (censored) again, I am sorry for not believeing you. I used to read your posts in the forums in a different light, now I understand... I have taken all the enclosures and replaced the substrate with untreated newspaper, and of course cleaned their water bowls, which were not in the enclosure for 24 hours after treatment. Is there anything I can do, or should I consider them lost?
    I have been in this hobby seriously for 3 years, and on and off my whole life. Almost every snake I have ever bought, unless I paid ALOT for it from a reputable dealer eventually gave me mites while in quarantine, this one didnt hatch out until it was in my main room. Every snake I have got at the St. Louis reptile show has had mites, no more st. louis shows for me.

    Well if you have any suggestions to try to save my snakes, please help
    A new customer forever, and again I apologize for not listening. I still feel your stuff is way over priced, and think you could get much better support if it were more affordable, but there again, whatever is different in your formula may cost you more to have made. Just being honest...

    Chris (omitted)
    Steeleville, Illinois 62288

    (618) 615-XXXX

    Put this on your website, or post it on forums, do whatever you want with it, im not ashamed for thinking I was going to get ripped off by buying your stuff, but I am ashamed for not having even tried it to compare.
  • 06-02-2009, 03:34 PM
    Zoe
    Re: Mite Killers
    I use none of the above. I would never use any pesticides anywhere near my snakes unless the cage was rinsed and dried, first.

    I use ivory soap and then a good soak for the snakes, and spray down the enclosures with a NIX solution - let sit for an hour, wipe, rinse, dry. Bake or throw away any dirt and wood, and watch everything else. Vacuum, etc etc. Repeat in two weeks.

    Worked for me.
  • 06-02-2009, 03:42 PM
    JeffJ
    Re: Mite Killers
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Repsrul View Post
    You said and I quote "and last time i sprayed my bp", You dont actually spray your BP do you?

    no i did not lol. sorry
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