Mite Killers

[jglass38]

One other thing to consider - just because something has the same ingredients, doesn't mean that the concentrations are the same.

If someone chooses to use a cheaper alternative, at least be fully armed with the knowledge that there are risks for taking a gamble.

Rock on Robin! Great post.

[jglass38]

A little light reading for everyone from one of my posts in a mite thread awhile back. Of course the main proponent for using home brew remedies is the same person who sent a mite covered snake to a forum member. Take it as you wish...

Here is the link to the thread: http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ighlight=mites

And my post:

I spent about 30 minutes on the phone with Bob Pound, the manufacturer of Provent A Mite. He may be the most knowledgeable person about pest control and the chemicals used this side of my local exterminator. I am sure the information that he provided which I will post here will be dismissed as bias by those who believe beyond a reasonable doubt that Equate is:

A. The same product in a different can
B. Equally as safe for reptiles
C. Equally as effective

Take it as you will, but this information is pretty damn convincing in my mind (which may not be on par with some of the insta-experts that reside here).

Here you go (his direct information will be in quotes):

Claim: Equate is the same product in a different can and is equally safe for reptiles as Provent A Mite

"The word permethrin is a generic name of a group of pyrethroid chemical isomers. This is like saying everything with the word soap is the same thing. Put your wet hand into a box of powdered laundry detergent and see if it is the same as a bar of ivory, but they are both "soap".

Without exception, these other products use a much more toxic isomer as they are all designed to be applied to material that maybe will have the potential for contact with mammals, which have a completely different physiology than reptiles do. These products are designed to be as toxic as possible to get a quick "knock down". These higher toxicities will not harm mammals, but are documented to harm lower vertebrates, including reptiles, fish, amphibians, mollusks and so forth and therefore can be used for these other uses. Also, only a very small percentage of what is in the can is the "active" ingredient, the rest is always a trade secret of the company, so will never be disclosed (only the generic active name has to be disclosed under EPA regulations). Different isomers have differing toxicities and again, only a range of the cis-trans ratio is given on a label, so one can never find out what is really in the can (again trade secret).

Since a product is only approved by the EPA for the uses listed on the label, chemicals in the formula that are not toxic to the host for the testing submitted, doesn't mean they would not be toxic to a host not listed. If fact many of the "inerts" used in these permethrin formulas are toxic to reptiles. If the company tried to receive EPA approval with these formulas for use on reptiles, they would not, as the EPA would not allow a product to be sold that would harm the host listed on the label. This is why the EPA regulations state that it is a federal offense to sell or use a product inconsistent with the label, not only because of the risk to the host, but also because such usage can create resistance.

Many products for example, use a more toxic isomer and then use a synergist such as PBO. PBO breaks through the insect's defense and its synergistic activity makes the insecticide more powerful and effective. With the high cost of insecticides, PBO effectively reduces the cost by allowing the product to use les s active ingredient to obtain the mortality rate desired. The problem with this is PBO is absolutely toxic to reptiles with several published studies regarding using PBO for the killing of brown tree and other snakes confirming this.

Despite anyone's claim to the contrary, many of these other "identical" products have injured and killed many reptiles as we get the phone calls from people telling us after the fact. Also many times, the exposure can lead to chronic health problems instead of an acute reaction, so if the animal dies at a later date, no one looks back and understands the actual cause of death. This is a classic example with no pest strips. No clinical studies were ever performed and people just started using them, using their animals as guinea pigs. Only after many years of usage were the risks associated with them disclosed. This has been established by many leading zoos and vets, but even now, many people still swear they are the best thing to use and do not pose any risk."

Provent-a-mite™ is the only product that has been approved by the EPA and USDA], has undergone extensive clinical and field studies to insure that will eliminate, not just control a mite or tick problem and is unique enough to have received a patent. No other product is more effective or can make these claims and certainly no other product is the same as Provent-a-mite™”


Claim: Equate (and other similar products) are equally as effective in killing mites and their eggs


"Provent-a-mite™ is the only product that will create residual protection that will not drop down to levels that can create resistance. We use a proprietary "time" release that ensures that it will create a long term residual effect at a high enough concentration to prevent the potential t o create resistant pests. Since mites and ticks can carry several diseases that can be harmful or fatal to the host, just getting an infestation is already too late if the pest was infected. Applying Provent-a-mite™to a cloth and then wiping around any openings in a cage will provide a barrier that will last a minimum of 30 days (usually 60 to 180 days). This will kill any ectoparasites before they can infest and potentially infect an animal. None of these other products can do this as their formulas are designed to break down very quickly, often in as little as 48 hours.

Provent-a-mite™ is also one of the least expensive methods when one compares the cost per application and the number of applications required. To treat an average 4' x 2' cage is approximately 50¢ with usually only one application required. To use the product preventatively, the cost for an average cage is about 5¢. The product has an average shelf life of 7 years. One of the biggest problems is that many people overuse the product, so the can will not treat as many cages as it actually should, costing more to use it than necessary.”

[blackcrystal22]

Oh wow.
Well, that was a very informative post jglass! Very much appreciated. It changed my mind as I was going to go with the lice killer idea until I read your post, so thanks a lot for that.

Thanks to everyone else too for your answers, very much appreciated.

[stangs13]

Jamie, What is equate? Is it the lice bedding spray? I guess it is to late for my teenage brain to be working, as I could barely understand the article...equate shouldn't be used on herps right? I guess thats what its saying.

[TanyaL]

A while back I asked about a PAM alternative, namely a Walmart generic product. I'm happy to say that I got schooled! Here is the link to that thread: http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ITE%2C+walmart

My snake is a pet and is certainly worth the $20-something I paid for a can of PAM. I tried repti-relief with little success. After doing a full tank cleaning and using a new bag of substrate loaded (and I mean LOADED) with mites, I finally ordered PAM. All it took was one simple (and I mean SIMPLE) treatment with PAM and the mites have been gone since! It's been at least two months and still no mites in site! My poor girl used to soak in her water dish because of the darn things but since treating with PAM, I have yet to see her soak. The downside of PAM is that I see her only when I take her out, and for the snake's sake, that's a good thing!

Bottom line is that my snake is worth the $20 difference! In fact, I have a bottle of repti-relief that is free for the taking...just pay for shipping! I won't be needing it anymore.

[Argentra]

I try to never skimp on anything for my critters. If it's known to be safe and it works, then I'll get it. 'Knock-off' products aren't always what they seem, and I'd rather not risk my pets health to save a few bucks.

My own health... that's different.

[jglass38]

Jamie, What is equate? Is it the lice bedding spray? I guess it is to late for my teenage brain to be working, as I could barely understand the article...equate shouldn't be used on herps right? I guess thats what its saying.

Equate is Walmart's brand of bedding lice spray. Made for...bedding!

[megabrain]

I use PAM, and it works great. I love it!

I had an ant problem in my apartment, and after trying everything to get rid of them, I got frustrated one night, and sprayed some PAM into the hole in the wall they were coming out of. No more ants for about 30 days now. I'm sure they'll be back, but maybe not until next summer.

I think if earth is invaded by aliens, PAM will be a useful defense.

[cassandra]

Cool post Jamie...neat that the PAM guy shared so much info. =)

Also a bonus: the PAM can packaging looks like it was made by the Dharma Initiative, so cool is that? =D

[cassandra]

I think if earth is invaded by aliens, PAM will be a useful defense.

can't - breathe - laughing - so - hard!