Which male with Fire?

Ok, so I bought an adult Fire female that I intended to breed next season but she is starting to get follicles so I am going to start to breed her now. I have never worked with Fire before. I originally intended to breed her to a Enchi/Phantom/Pin but after looking at about a million pictures of the possible combos I am not having a lot of faith in my ability to detect the presence of the Fire gene in all the various possibilities. Ideally, when dealing with a new (for me) gene like this I would prefer to have a super and know what I was getting but that is not the case.

For breeding purposes I would eventually want to produce a Super Fire male or make enough from the combos produced just to buy one outright.

The possibilities I have right now as far as males that I could put with this girl are....

Phantom/Pin
Enchi/Phantom/Pin
Spider Super Mojave
Mojave/Phantom/Pin
Lavender Albino Spider
Albino
Normal

For those that have worked with Fire, what would you do and why?

Any of the first four would be okay if you are not willing to purchase any more. If you like the "pied" look, get something with Disco in it!

I would do the Enchi Phantom Pin, or the Super Mojave Spider this year. Next year I would try to find a Vanilla Pastel(maybe super vanilla so you would know everything would be a vanilla) to make Screams and creams

Albino or Lavender Albino Spider b/c REL. :gj:

If you bought her to go to the enchi phantom pin I would recommend you go to him. But I second the comment on pastel vanilla next season

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

I originally intended to breed her to a Enchi/Phantom/Pin but after looking at about a million pictures of the possible combos I am not having a lot of faith in my ability to detect the presence of the Fire gene in all the various possibilities.

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One problem I have come across when gauging by pictures is that they rarely have the "non-" form for comparison (e.g., Pastel next to FirePastel) so the differences can be harder to pick out. But when you have an actual clutch where the offspring with and without the gene in question then it is easier to pick out the different ones. I would also advocate you shoot for you original plan with the EnchiPhantomPin male. If you do end up having trouble IDing the babies I am sure there are a number of people who would be more than willing to help out.

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Originally Posted by artist&writer

Any of the first four would be okay if you are not willing to purchase any more. If you like the "pied" look, get something with Disco in it!

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I like the Disco stuff even though I don't care for pied too much. It is tempting. I am going to a show Saturday. I am just working too many genes right now. I didn't even list out my yellowbelly complex stuff because I am not ready to start crossing complexes until I stabilize my Gravel project. On top of that, I will be male heavy once the babies from this season hatch due to males I need for my REL projects. There are only so many males I want to have to feed.

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Originally Posted by BigJay

I would do the Enchi Phantom Pin, or the Super Mojave Spider this year. Next year I would try to find a Vanilla Pastel(maybe super vanilla so you would know everything would be a vanilla) to make Screams and creams

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Yeah I am really attempted to put the super mojave in. I have hatched quite a few mojaves and should not have any problem seeing the fire if it is there.

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Originally Posted by Ax01

Albino or Lavender Albino Spider b/c REL. :gj:

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Yeah, I am going there for the end game, but I need at least a super fire or I am going to end up with too many het lavender normals and spiders that will be hard to get rid of.

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Originally Posted by StillBP

If you bought her to go to the enchi phantom pin I would recommend you go to him. But I second the comment on pastel vanilla next season

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Originally Posted by asplundii

One problem I have come across when gauging by pictures is that they rarely have the "non-" form for comparison (e.g., Pastel next to FirePastel) so the differences can be harder to pick out. But when you have an actual clutch where the offspring with and without the gene in question then it is easier to pick out the different ones. I would also advocate you shoot for you original plan with the EnchiPhantomPin male. If you do end up having trouble IDing the babies I am sure there are a number of people who would be more than willing to help out.

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As long as I can get help IDing babies it is probably back to the original plan. The Enchi/Phantom/Pin has been the perfect stud so far. He has three girls gravid. Was from a clutch last year. Color is holding well. Never stops eating. Good personality. Weighed him last night and he is already just shy of 1000 grams and 8 months old. His dad is a monster too. Bigger than a couple of my girls. Hopefully his babies are as good as his dad's. I still have two of his brothers that I am going to let go as soon as know he is producing what I want.

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

I like the Disco stuff even though I don't care for pied too much. It is tempting.

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One thing to consider here with Disco, Vanilla, or any of the other alleles in the BlkEL group since you have expressed some concern about being able to ID Fire... I have heard many, many stories about people breeding out their Vanilla/Fire or Disco/Fire and not being able to tell which babies are which morph. It is enough of a detraction for me that I have chosen to only work with the Fire allele and save myself potential headaches

No pastel in your collection? I have a mojave firefly, and the snake is just stunning.

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Originally Posted by ringorock

No pastel in your collection? I have a mojave firefly, and the snake is just stunning.

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Oh yeah. I have pastel. 3 single gene, 1 pastel pin, 1 lemon blast, 1 killer bee, and 2 Pastel Pinstripe Phantoms. They are all girls though. LOL. I have not kept any male pastels. I am waiting to see which of the Pastel girls ages the best then I will use her to produce a Killer Bee male as a holdback. I am cautious with Pastel because I have seen too many age badly. I am lucky so far in that all but 2 of mine are above average so far. One of them all the yellow turned white. Another that I bought as a baby was exceptional but by the time she turned two her entire back browned out. I have one that is actually getting better with age which is really odd for a pastel. Her yellow seems to get better every year, but her genes don't seem to be "strong". So far the pastel in the babies she has produced is average.

I am committed now. Enchi/Phantom/Pin locked with the Fire last night. Fingers crossed. Thanks everyone for helping me make up my mind.

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

Oh yeah. I have pastel. 3 single gene, 1 pastel pin, 1 lemon blast, 1 killer bee, and 2 Pastel Pinstripe Phantoms. They are all girls though. LOL. I have not kept any male pastels. I am waiting to see which of the Pastel girls ages the best then I will use her to produce a Killer Bee male as a holdback. I am cautious with Pastel because I have seen too many age badly. I am lucky so far in that all but 2 of mine are above average so far. One of them all the yellow turned white. Another that I bought as a baby was exceptional but by the time she turned two her entire back browned out. I have one that is actually getting better with age which is really odd for a pastel. Her yellow seems to get better every year, but her genes don't seem to be "strong". So far the pastel in the babies she has produced is average.

I am committed now. Enchi/Phantom/Pin locked with the Fire last night. Fingers crossed. Thanks everyone for helping me make up my mind.

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let's hope for a nice clutch :gj:

was about to type go with enchi phantom pin, but read a bit further and saw you already did that :D

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

Oh yeah. I have pastel. 3 single gene, 1 pastel pin, 1 lemon blast, 1 killer bee, and 2 Pastel Pinstripe Phantoms. They are all girls though. LOL. I have not kept any male pastels. I am waiting to see which of the Pastel girls ages the best then I will use her to produce a Killer Bee male as a holdback. I am cautious with Pastel because I have seen too many age badly. I am lucky so far in that all but 2 of mine are above average so far. One of them all the yellow turned white. Another that I bought as a baby was exceptional but by the time she turned two her entire back browned out. I have one that is actually getting better with age which is really odd for a pastel. Her yellow seems to get better every year, but her genes don't seem to be "strong". So far the pastel in the babies she has produced is average.

I am committed now. Enchi/Phantom/Pin locked with the Fire last night. Fingers crossed. Thanks everyone for helping me make up my mind.

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That makes it a Phire Pinch, right? You heard it here first, folks!

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Originally Posted by ringorock

That makes it a Phire Pinch, right? You heard it here first, folks!

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Maybe spelled with a y? Phyre Pinch

You know, I didn't event think about it. It might be a first. If anyone has ever heard of a Enchi/Fire/Phantom/Pin being produced please let me know.

This got me looking. There is a good chance that a Enchi/Pastel/Phantom/Pin will be laid in three weeks and a Super Enchi Phantom Pin will be laid this week.
Will need a name for those as well.

I would go with this Enchi/Phantom/Pin or this Mojave/Phantom/Pin or even both.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

I would go with this Enchi/Phantom/Pin or this Mojave/Phantom/Pin or even both.

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There's an idea. Dual sired clutch. The Fire Jigsaws are pretty hot.