Stupid BP Owner

As the title suggests... This post is about a very stupid Ball python owner.

I am referring to myself, of course.

Wheatley, my late June/Early august hatchling I bought from petsmart, is, at this point, quite used to being handled frequently, and has gotten into a normal routine. All things good on that end, I decided I'd introduce a new element into the equation. Getting him used to the surroundings outside his tank. He knows my room well enough, but nothing else. So while I was waiting on my spaghetti to boil, I put him on the floor to explore a little bit, unaware of what is about to happen...

Wheatley is an adorable, well-behaved, calm little Ball python. He is always on constant supervision when he's up and about, and doesn't venture very far from me.

What I didn't take into mind was my roommate's VERY hyper golden retriever puppy... Who I didn't know was actually inside, and not outside as he normally is. This puppy is almost full grown, but he's still tearing up everything he can get his jaws on. As soon as I hear the sound of mad puppy claws dashing against the hardwood floor on the other side of the wall was as soon as I tried to launch forward and grab Wheatley.

In slow-motion detail, this is exactly what happened:

Dog claw sounds > Wheatley immediately rears and coils into a spring > Me going to grab Wheatley > Dog's face is close to Wheatley//Wheatley does a strike and misses because he's not close enough > Dog is dumb and doesn't notice it still coming forward > I panic, still in the process of quickly trying to grab Wheatley and turn that motion into a backhand, trying to get him away from Wheatley, who is being HIGHLY aggressive.

While that stopped the dog for that moment, it did NOT stop Wheatley, who evidently thinks he's a big and tough bad boy, and started to come after the dog with another strike. I picked him up. He was wide-bodied and very tense, so I tried to let him calm down on his own by standing up with him high enough away from the dog.

The dog, by the way, was completely unaffected by me smacking him, and started to jump up on me, scratching at me with his claws. Still convinced that Wheatley was a toy. From my hand Wheatley did another strike, this time he almost launched himself out of my hand.

Little dude meant business and wasn't going to calm down on his own, so I broke his line of sight with my hand and gently forced him to ball himself up. A trick another YouTuber used (HLC Pythons, I think) I thought was kind of cruel, because it takes the fight or flight response and turns fight into flight. Not knowing any other trick for breaking a python's focus from the offending party, I resorted to an action that in my eyes was not only stupid, but really ices the cake of this whole event of terrifying and possibly traumatizing my baby ball python.

After that, he remained in a ball for a few minutes before responding to me. I put him around my neck, thinking the heat and "shelter" of my hair would calm him down. He stretched out and kept his eye on the dog from my shoulder, and the dog listened to my "sit" and "stay" commands while I finished making my pasta. I went straight upstairs and checked Wheatley all over. Looking for any signs of him being hurt. He seemed fine so I sprayed his enclosure down and put him in my lap while i ate, waiting for the tank'a warm spot to warm back up from being sprayed and for the humidity to return to the comfortable level. Wheatley ended up falling asleep on my lap until a I picked him up. He wasn't tense anymore, and seemed to be back to the usual BP behavior, so I figured the event wasn't at all associated with myself or his home.

I had intended upon socializing him to the puppy once the puppy had reached a stage where he wasn't so excitable, but now that seems impossible. It certainly isn't necessary to socialize a ball python, but I thought it would encourage my roommate that snakes aren't evil if the ball python got along with everyone and not just me. As of right now my roommate thinks I'm a freak who can talk to snakes because I was able to tell when Wheatley wasn't ok to touch. (A snake's body language is easy to read... I don't actually talk to snakes.... In that sense, I mean. I do talk to Wheatley, but it's useless babble since snakes are evidently deaf....)

Personally I would not ever think to put any of my animals in harms way.
Trying to "socialize" your snake with another pet isn't the best thing to do when you do not know how either animal is going to react.
Yes there are people that try/do it but your snake will lose a fight that may happen faster than you think you could react.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Personally I would not ever think to put any of my animals in harms way.
Trying to "socialize" your snake with another pet isn't the best thing to do when you do not know how either animal is going to react.
Yes there are people that try/do it but your snake will lose a fight that may happen faster than you think you could react.

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Which is why I was meaning to wait for any interaction, if ever, would be when the puppy was in a calmer and more predictable stage of life. Obviously this will not happen at all anymore. I didn't intend on introducing the dog to the snake then, and was a complete lapse of observation on my part, which almost turned into a quickly fatal encounter for Wheatley...

Ive seen snake owners trusting their cats around their snakes, and that is not something I would trust at all. Most cats get into unpredictable moods and seem to have psychotic moments out of no where....

If you want your roommate to warm up to snakes, showing him to other people and friends is always the best way. Especially when they hold him in their hands... It works every time! Lol

It's definitely not worth the risk to try contact with other animals. My dogs are very well behaved, but I wouldn't risk them within 4 feet of my snakes. For me, it's because ball pythons or boas randomly turning around to strike DOES happen sometimes, without any prior body language or warning that you'd normally see. It can be very unexpected! And if they manage to tag the other animal on the nose, the other animal freaks out, it just wouldn't end well...

Mistakes happen. Learn from them.

I had a somewhat similar thing happen with my borneo and my cat, though in this situation my cat was at far greater risk. I was sitting in front of the enclosure with said snake taken most of the way out into my lap, I was messing around in the enclosure, cat came into the room without me noticing, I immediately hear the smacking sound when you feed a bigger snake.. snake latched onto the cat's face, in food mode, tried to coil her and I had to pry large snake jaws of a spazzing cat's face while preventing him from coiling her. Very hectic situation and now I make 100% sure my bedroom door is closed with the cat outside when I take him out for even a second. Even when I am only opening the enclosure for a water change or feeding.

Keep the animals separated.

How quaint.. thanks for sharing the story, and in such a comprehensible way! We've an old 16 year old black cat that's nearing the end of his days, very mellow but kinda.. out of it. The cat is very sweet, though. He'lol raise the pitch of his meow to get what he wants. Even with such a sweet and carefree cat I wouldn't really trust them together.. Mainly cuz the cat is naSTY.

yikes, close call for Wheatley! I allow my cats and my snake to be aware of each other, but never within a body length's distance from each other. Incidentally, i have a 2 year old male dwarf boa who would stand no chance against either of my cats, but who i'm sure could put up enough of a fight to cause serious vet bills for both parties. Generally, he seems just curious about them, they are obviously way to big to look like food, and i'm sure the smell is confusing b/c their scent is all over me most of the time. My one cat seems similarly benignly curious, i can imagine extending the trust between them by small increments over time, but my other cat has a prey-drive like you wouldn't believe and he stares and stalks the snake like he's made out of tunafish. I make sure he's behind a closed door before handling sessions.
Not that vilifying the puppy will help relations, but you could use the situation to exemplify to your roommate how snakes are not big and bad, but sensitive and vulnerable. I always point out to my neighbor who is afraid of them that my snake's entire head is about as big as just one of her dog's teeth (slight exaggeration, but in the ball-park). Though she's still scared of him, at least now she acknowledges that the fear is largely irrational; baby-steps.

Why are you trying to introduce your snake to different animals?

Here we go again with the stress...

Everytime I read one of your threads, it seems like something is happening to Wheatley. Something that's not supposed to be happening. Maybe you should leave him alone for a bit.

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Originally Posted by PythonBabes

Why are you trying to introduce your snake to different animals?

Here we go again with the stress...

Everytime I read one of your threads, it seems like something is happening to Wheatley. Something that's not supposed to be happening. Maybe you should leave him alone for a bit.

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Yes..this.

Sorry, but wow..

Poor Wheatley needs a vacation or something from all this stress he is having to deal with. Its time to re-evaluate and really think hard about some of the things you have posted recently. Wheatley is having to deal w alot of stressors that can be avoided. Luckily, this incident didnt get him killed. Next time, HE may not be so lucky.

Reptiles should never be introduced or "socialized" with furries of any kind.....EVER. Period. It is a VERY IRRESPONSIBLE thing to do or even consider doing. There are too many wild cards to predict and very bad things can happen when people get silly ideas such as this. So...please...for the sake of that snake....stop! Stop it now! You will get that snake killed if you continue this.

You may feel some of us are being harsh w you on this and many posts... When we are being blunt and not sugar coating things or give you info that you personally dont want to take or dont agree with. We tell you the things we tell you to help you out...and your snake. It is merely because we care for YOUR snakes well being and want YOU to be a successful keeper.

I have been knocking around this site since the day it was "born", I have met alot of knowledgeable people here who are ALWAYS willing to answer questions and such. I emplore you to start using their knowledge given so freely and realise, its being done w the best of intentions.

Sent from my LG-V500 using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Jeanne

Yes..this.

Sorry, but wow..

Poor Wheatley needs a vacation or something from all this stress he is having to deal with. Its time to re-evaluate and really think hard about some of the things you have posted recently. Wheatley is having to deal w alot of stressors that can be avoided. Luckily, this incident didnt get him killed. Next time, HE may not be so lucky.

Reptiles should never be introduced or "socialized" with furries of any kind.....EVER. Period. It is a VERY IRRESPONSIBLE thing to do or even consider doing. There are too many wild cards to predict and very bad things can happen when people get silly ideas such as this. So...please...for the sake of that snake....stop! Stop it now! You will get that snake killed if you continue this.

You may feel some of us are being harsh w you on this and many posts... When we are being blunt and not sugar coating things or give you info that you personally dont want to take or dont agree with. We tell you the things we tell you to help you out...and your snake. It is merely because we care for YOUR snakes well being and want YOU to be a successful keeper.

I have been knocking around this site since the day it was "born", I have met alot of knowledgeable people here who are ALWAYS willing to answer questions and such. I emplore you to start using their knowledge given so freely and realise, its being done w the best of intentions.

Sent from my LG-V500 using Tapatalk

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I'm not sure what part of "unintended" and "wasn't aware that dog was in room" didn't come across to anyone but FYI I said it was a thought I had, an intention for the future. Nothing more than a possibility which got dashed by this completely accidental event that was avoided by sheer luck.

Wheatley is fine. Thanks for checking up.

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Originally Posted by PythonBabes

Why are you trying to introduce your snake to different animals?

Here we go again with the stress...

Everytime I read one of your threads, it seems like something is happening to Wheatley. Something that's not supposed to be happening. Maybe you should leave him alone for a bit.

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I think maybe you need to re-read what I wrote carefully. I didn't know the dog was in the other room until I heard him. :)

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Originally Posted by KingWheatley

Which is why I was meaning to wait for any interaction, if ever, would be when the puppy was in a calmer and more predictable stage of life. Obviously this will not happen at all anymore. I didn't intend on introducing the dog to the snake then, and was a complete lapse of observation on my part, which almost turned into a quickly fatal encounter for Wheatley...

Ive seen snake owners trusting their cats around their snakes, and that is not something I would trust at all. Most cats get into unpredictable moods and seem to have psychotic moments out of no where....

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^^^^^^^^^^

And you may want to be careful about letting a snake on the ground at all with possibility U may take your eye off for just a second...alot of cabinets have nooks n crannys snakes cn get into between then and along floors, that you will not easily get them out of..

Sent from my LG-V500 using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Jeanne

And you may want to be careful about letting a snake on the ground at all with possibility U may take your eye off for just a second...alot of cabinets have nooks n crannys snakes cn get into between then and along floors, that you will not easily get them out of..

Sent from my LG-V500 using Tapatalk

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Right. I had my eyes on him the whole time, which likely saved Wheatley the fate of being a chew toy...

had I not reacted as fast as I had, had I been any further away...

I shudder at the very thought...

I once showed my dog a bit of shed so he can sniff it and so I could see how he would react to it. He tried to eat it. Thats the last time he was going near anything that smelled of snake!

If I were you, I wouldn't get your Wheatley out for a couple of days. Just to let him relax a little. It wouldn't do anything to his temperament, if your afraid of him becoming aggressive, it would do him some good to have a bit of 'me time'

Okay, so you didn't know the dog was in the house. I personally know how rambunctious and unpredictable puppies are I have 3 dogs, two off them are under the age of 2. That doesn't excuse the fact that your snake could have been seriously injured.
You need to make sure your snake is safe at all times. Whenever Karma is out, the door is shut sometimes locked, and all tight spaces are closed away and all other animals are on the other side of the door. Honestly, the bottom line is I don't think you're responsible enough for a snake. If you wanted a pet that you could hold and play with all the time and not get stressed and all that, maybe some type of rodent would have been better. Not that I would want any kind of animal going through what Wheatley is...

And on top of that, there are people here trying to help you and it seems like all you want to do is justify your actions and tell everyone what your opinion is. Oh well. I've seen it happen, owners think they're right all the time and then when the animal gets hurt they start trying to take advice when they should have been doing that in the first place. :angered:

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Originally Posted by LightningPython

I once showed my dog a bit of shed so he can sniff it and so I could see how he would react to it. He tried to eat it. Thats the last time he was going near anything that smelled of snake!

If I were you, I wouldn't get your Wheatley out for a couple of days. Just to let him relax a little. It wouldn't do anything to his temperament, if your afraid of him becoming aggressive, it would do him some good to have a bit of 'me time'

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Oh believe me. I'm also going to give him an extra day before I feed him. I don't know how true this is, but I've heard feeding time is a bit stressful for the snake as well...??? So I'm just going to clean his water bowl like i always do and leave him be for today. :)

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Originally Posted by PythonBabes

Okay, so you didn't know the dog was in the house. I personally know how rambunctious and unpredictable puppies are I have 3 dogs, two off them are under the age of 2. That doesn't excuse the fact that your snake could have been seriously injured.
You need to make sure your snake is safe at all times. Whenever Karma is out, the door is shut sometimes locked, and all tight spaces are closed away and all other animals are on the other side of the door. Honestly, the bottom line is I don't think you're responsible enough for a snake. If you wanted a pet that you could hold and play with all the time and not get stressed and all that, maybe some type of rodent would have been better. Not that I would want any kind of animal going through what Wheatley is...

And on top of that, there are people here trying to help you and it seems like all you want to do is justify your actions and tell everyone what your opinion is. Oh well. I've seen it happen, owners think they're right all the time and then when the animal gets hurt they start trying to take advice when they should have been doing that in the first place. :angered:

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So... Let me get this straight.

You don't think I'm responsible enough to own a snake... Because an accident (and the first of such) nearly happened which I owned up for my own lapse of observation and assumption that my roommate does what he ALWAYS does (which is put the dog in the backyard when he leaves for work).... :8:

Hm.... Something tells me you have your heart in the right place, but you are making some terrible quick assumptions about this. First off, Wheatley is healthy, "happy" in every other regard except for this event. I say happy in quotes, because happy for a snake is more like content, I suppose. He eats fine. Sheds fine. Poops fine. Isn't sick. Isn't overly tense. Doesn't cower away from me.

I have every right to my opinion as much as anyone else is. If someone wants to share theirs, they are more than welcome to. But that doesn't mean I have to roll over and accept their opinion. Same as yours. :) Works both ways, sweetheart.

And I justify that snakes have emotions and I do argue this quite fiercely, because it was misunderstood. Snakes have moods like any other animal. Thusly, emotion does have a play in a Snake's brain. Yes, it's not as complex as "love" and "hate," actual "happiness" and "sadness." And that was the beginning of the argument that has happened across my many threads. Much else has been said, where the particular users who have offered their opinion/information/advise that I have completely shut out because of their previous interaction with me.

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Originally Posted by KingWheatley

As the title suggests... This post is about a very stupid Ball python owner.

I am referring to myself, of course.

Wheatley, my late June/Early august hatchling I bought from petsmart, is, at this point, quite used to being handled frequently, and has gotten into a normal routine.

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Why handle such a young snake frequently???

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All things good on that end, I decided I'd introduce a new element into the equation. Getting him used to the surroundings outside his tank. He knows my room well enough, but nothing else.

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Why? The area out side of your room is inhabited by a dog. Dogs are predators. Little bitty snakes don't like predators so taking him out where there is predator smell just doesn't seem like a good idea in the first place.

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So while I was waiting on my spaghetti to boil, I put him on the floor to explore a little bit, unaware of what is about to happen...

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So you had him out while cooking? So you couldn't give him your undivided attention.

And you just put him down, in an unsecured room.

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Wheatley is an adorable, well-behaved, calm little Ball python. He is always on constant supervision when he's up and about, and doesn't venture very far from me.

What I didn't take into mind was my roommate's VERY hyper golden retriever puppy... Who I didn't know was actually inside, and not outside as he normally is. This puppy is almost full grown, but he's still tearing up everything he can get his jaws on. As soon as I hear the sound of mad puppy claws dashing against the hardwood floor on the other side of the wall was as soon as I tried to launch forward and grab Wheatley.

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Shouldn't you have, ya know, checked where the 70 ish lb wolf descendant was before allowing your juvenile snake to free roam in the dogs area of the house?

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In slow-motion detail, this is exactly what happened:

Dog claw sounds > Wheatley immediately rears and coils into a spring > Me going to grab Wheatley > Dog's face is close to Wheatley//Wheatley does a strike and misses because he's not close enough > Dog is dumb and doesn't notice it still coming forward > I panic, still in the process of quickly trying to grab Wheatley and turn that motion into a backhand, trying to get him away from Wheatley, who is being HIGHLY aggressive.

While that stopped the dog for that moment, it did NOT stop Wheatley, who evidently thinks he's a big and tough bad boy, and started to come after the dog with another strike. I picked him up. He was wide-bodied and very tense, so I tried to let him calm down on his own by standing up with him high enough away from the dog.

The dog, by the way, was completely unaffected by me smacking him, and started to jump up on me, scratching at me with his claws. Still convinced that Wheatley was a toy. From my hand Wheatley did another strike, this time he almost launched himself out of my hand.

Little dude meant business and wasn't going to calm down on his own, so I broke his line of sight with my hand and gently forced him to ball himself up. A trick another YouTuber used (HLC Pythons, I think) I thought was kind of cruel, because it takes the fight or flight response and turns fight into flight. Not knowing any other trick for breaking a python's focus from the offending party, I resorted to an action that in my eyes was not only stupid, but really ices the cake of this whole event of terrifying and possibly traumatizing my baby ball python.

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Forcing the snake to ball up is the least offensive of this whole adventure.

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After that, he remained in a ball for a few minutes before responding to me. I put him around my neck, thinking the heat and "shelter" of my hair would calm him down. He stretched out and kept his eye on the dog from my shoulder, and the dog listened to my "sit" and "stay" commands while I finished making my pasta.

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This here completely ticks me off and is animal cruelty IMHO. You sat there with the snake around your neck, the snake terrifying dog still present in the immediate area, while you finished making your pasta!?!?

I don't even have the words... ugh. How about returning your snake to the security of his enclosure and getting him away from the dog?

Your hair a shelter? Seriously? Have you any idea of a ball python's natural behavior? In no way could a pony tail be a shelter for a bp...

Pretty sure your BP's corticosterone levels shot through the roof here. Mine practically are just reading this.

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I went straight upstairs and checked Wheatley all over. Looking for any signs of him being hurt. He seemed fine so I sprayed his enclosure down and put him in my lap while i ate, waiting for the tank'a warm spot to warm back up from being sprayed and for the humidity to return to the comfortable level. Wheatley ended up falling asleep on my lap until a I picked him up. He wasn't tense anymore, and seemed to be back to the usual BP behavior, so I figured the event wasn't at all associated with myself or his home.

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I would bet my kidney that the temperature and humidity level of a recently sprayed down tank is far more suitable an environment than your lap.

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I had intended upon socializing him to the puppy once the puppy had reached a stage where he wasn't so excitable, but now that seems impossible.

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That the idea of socializing your snake to the dog at all even crossed your mind...

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It certainly isn't necessary to socialize a ball python, but I thought it would encourage my roommate that snakes aren't evil if the ball python got along with everyone and not just me. As of right now my roommate thinks I'm a freak who can talk to snakes because I was able to tell when Wheatley wasn't ok to touch. (A snake's body language is easy to read... I don't actually talk to snakes.... In that sense, I mean. I do talk to Wheatley, but it's useless babble since snakes are evidently deaf....)

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Yeah. So smacking the roommate's dog over an incident with the snake isn't going to win him over to the snake fan club. If it were my dog we would having major words.

I don't understand most of this. It just doesn't make a lot of sense. I don't think you understand snakes as well as you think you do.

Snakes aren't social cuddle buddy pets. Your posts keep coming off as that you are making a lot of choices that are in your interest, things for your enjoyment of your pet, rather than what is in his best interest.

It really seems as if you are on a path of 'loving Wheatley to death'.

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Originally Posted by KingWheatley

Oh believe me. I'm also going to give him an extra day before I feed him. I don't know how true this is, but I've heard feeding time is a bit stressful for the snake as well...??? So I'm just going to clean his water bowl like i always do and leave him be for today. :)

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As far as I know, feeding time isn't stressful. Do you feed him in the viv or take him out? I would just give him his food in the viv to give him as little stress as possible.
Remember to leave him for a week after feeding

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Originally Posted by LightningPython

As far as I know, feeding time isn't stressful. Do you feed him in the viv or take him out? I would just give him his food in the viv to give him as little stress as possible.
Remember to leave him for a week after feeding

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I usually feed him in his tank.

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Originally Posted by voodoolamb

So you had him out while cooking? So you couldn't give him your undivided attention.

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I had him out while the pasta was boiling. THat doesn't require attention at all. Wheatley had my undivided attention.

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Originally Posted by voodoolamb

Shouldn't you have, ya know, checked where the 70 ish lb wolf descendant was before allowing your juvenile snake to free roam in the dogs area of the house?

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Yes. I should have. It was a huge mistake to think my roommate would do what he always does. Besides that, the dog usually gets really excited when I come downstairs, so there was honestly no way I could have made any other assumption other than he was outside. I will be more careful in the future.

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Originally Posted by voodoolamb

In no way could a pony tail be a shelter for a bp...

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....? My hair isn't always in a pony tail... Adding in details into your own mental picture is fine, but I didn't wrap him around my hair. He was around my neck and my hair was like a curtain. I'm sorry if this isn't a suitable quick solution, but I was trying to get the dog to behave, keep the pasta from over-boiling, and keep the snake out of reach of the dog.

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Originally Posted by voodoolamb

If it were my dog we would having major words.

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Well I'm glad it's not your dog then. Because I don't tolerate any dog getting into my personal space without permission, let alone dashing at me. It's a mark of a very badly trained and hyperactive dog that will rush at you and jump on you. He deserves the smack he got for not listening to commands. You act like I punched him? I smacked him. Smacks hurt, sure. But they don't break bones. Discipline is important for dogs as well as children, and even horses.

Spoiling your dog is as bad as spoiling your horse or child.

As for snakes, yes, it's been made plain that I'm a big of a greenhorn when it comes to experience with them. But to be fair, there is a lot of mixed information out there. Go take a look. What works for you isn't what works for HLC Python, 1SoftKiss, or SnakeBytes. Not 100%. These snake owners know their stuff, and while some information may come off as a little strange, I can see why they see what they see. Does this make sense?

But believe what you want to.

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Originally Posted by KingWheatley

Well I'm glad it's not your dog then. Because I don't tolerate any dog getting into my personal space without permission, let alone dashing at me. It's a mark of a very badly trained and hyperactive dog that will rush at you and jump on you. He deserves the smack he got for not listening to commands. You act like I punched him? I smacked him. Smacks hurt, sure. But they don't break bones. Discipline is important for dogs as well as children, and even horses.

Spoiling your dog is as bad as spoiling your horse or child.

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Not turning this into a dog training arguement, of which I assure you I have far more experience with than you. (Mentored with some rather big names in that world)

Smacking is not an appropriate type of discipline for a canine. Hitting is primate behavior that doesn't have an equivalent in dog language. Proper discipline alao has to be delivered in a calm cool and collected way to be effective. Don't think what you did was disciplining the dog. It was just pushing him back to collect your pet... which had no business being loose in the dog's area of the house. Which is what we would be having words about.

Of course you are lucky it was a golden. I work with much higher drive dogs. A smack would not deter them and you absolutely would have a dead snake on your hands. But I digress.

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As for snakes, yes, it's been made plain that I'm a big of a greenhorn when it comes to experience with them. But to be fair, there is a lot of mixed information out there. Go take a look. What works for you isn't what works for HLC Python, 1SoftKiss, or SnakeBytes. Not 100%. These snake owners know their stuff, and while some information may come off as a little strange, I can see why they see what they see. Does this make sense?

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I'm only familiar with the last 2. Snakebite is a fine source. But softkiss majorly anthromorphises her animals and takes a LOT of risks with them. Not a person to emulate if you care about your snake's welfare.

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....? My hair isn't always in a pony tail... Adding in details into your own mental picture is fine, but I didn't wrap him around my hair. He was around my neck and my hair was like a curtain. I'm sorry if this isn't a suitable quick solution, but I was trying to get the dog to behave, keep the pasta from over-boiling, and keep the snake out of reach of the dog.

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It actually doesn't matter what your hair style was. Even long hair worn down in a curtain can in no way be conceived as a proper secure hide for a ball python.

You cared more about your pasta over boiling than getting your snake to feel secure. That is sickening to me.

Forcing your juvenile ball python to endure the presence of the large predatory animal that had just terrorised it is psychological abuse.

Poor snake.

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Originally Posted by KingWheatley

Well I'm glad it's not your dog then. Because I don't tolerate any dog getting into my personal space without permission, let alone dashing at me. It's a mark of a very badly trained and hyperactive dog that will rush at you and jump on you. He deserves the smack he got for not listening to commands. You act like I punched him? I smacked him. Smacks hurt, sure. But they don't break bones. Discipline is important for dogs as well as children, and even horses.

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Personal space?? Normally I would say this only exists in your house BUT you have a room mate so everything other than your room is communal space.
The dog does not understand this as it was/is in the communal area where allowed.
As far as "deserving" yeah its probably a good thing is wasn't one of my 5 dogs.

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Originally Posted by KingWheatley

As for snakes, yes, it's been made plain that I'm a big of a greenhorn when it comes to experience with them. But to be fair, there is a lot of mixed information out there. Go take a look. What works for you isn't what works for HLC Python, 1SoftKiss, or SnakeBytes. Not 100%. These snake owners know their stuff, and while some information may come off as a little strange, I can see why they see what they see. Does this make sense?

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There are many snake owners that "know their stuff" and offer information. Problem is the receptive side doesn't want to play their part.
BTW Brian Barczyk is a great guy, you should try watching more of his videos and listening to them. :gj:

You know, no one here is saying that you are stupid. I too made a mistake when I got my first male normal ball python. I had him in a 20 gallon long tank and I had not latched the lid on properly one night before I went to bed. I woke up the next morning and he was gone. I was freaking out because I had a cat with very high prey drive and I have a dog also. Luckily my dog is chill as all get out but I was really worried that the cat would find the snake and potentially hurt him.

I tore my apartment apart to find that little snake. I ended up finding him hiding in the baseboard heater in my bathroom. My bathroom was located in my bedroom which was where my snake and tank were located. He had no injuries and was none the wiser of his little escape. My cat never got to him and luckily I didn't have the baseboard heat running either or he could have been badly burned.

I guess what I am trying to say is that we all make mistakes with keeping these snakes in the beginning and we think we know better when we actually don't. I read your other thread too about the pooping and digestion. My goodness that thread got derailed. I do not believe that these snakes feel emotions but that they are in a sense conditioned. You are lucky Wheatley escaped that dog without any injury. You really should let the poor little guy distress for a while. Lord knows I would be stressed out as hell if some big dog were coming after me.

I also want to speak on behalf on Deborah. She may seem rude and like a know it a all but she is a great lady. I have been on this forum for a while now and I have learned a lot from her. Hell, when I was first on here I got an infraction from her but I just dealt with it and moved on. As I got to know her and learn from her I found out that she is a pretty cool person. The mods have a tough job on here and they are not there to sugar coat things. They will tell it like it is and they also do their best to be of help with answering questions. Give the mods a little slack. I used to be a mod on here and I can say from experience that it is not an easy task at times.

Try to do your best with Wheatley and let the little dude have some very much needed time off from hanging out and handling.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Personal space?? Normally I would say this only exists in your house BUT you have a room mate so everything other than your room is communal space.
The dog does not understand this as it was/is in the communal area where allowed.

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I know this. Regardless of this, I do try to teach him to not jump up on people. But when your roommate likes to play with him when he's being bad... It's his first dog ever. And both him and his daughter don't use firm voices at all with the dog. The dog listens to me more than anyone, though.

That dog's claws have cut me more times than I'd like. And he's a medium sized dog. He's very friendly with his teeth. I'm at an absolute loss on how to get this puppy to understand that it's not ok...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by voodoolamb

Smacking is not an appropriate type of discipline for a canine. Hitting is primate behavior that doesn't have an equivalent in dog language. Proper discipline alao has to be delivered in a calm cool and collected way to be effective. Don't think what you did was disciplining the dog. It was just pushing him back to collect your pet... which had no business being loose in the dog's area of the house. Which is what we would be having words about.

Of course you are lucky it was a golden. I work with much higher drive dogs. A smack would not deter them...

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Dogs have developed in such a way that they can pick up on commands and gestures. Such as pointing.

The smack was not really an intentional thought process, for sure. If you read, it was more of a desperate knee-jerk reaction. I wasn't really looking to deter, but to get to my snake, which if I had not smacked the dog (which did push him) the snake would have been in the middle of a tug of war. As I mentioned, the puppy is not very well trained, and doesn't always listen to commands.

I can't even imagine if he were a bigger dog. Most assuredly, yes I would have a dead snake on my hands.

The kitchen is NOT a dog space. The dining area is NOT a dog space. My dogs, my parents dogs, knew better than to go into either of these rooms. And dogs should know better than to come up running at me for fun. That is poor discipline. If I were a threat, that's a different story. Perhaps I'm just pulling from experience with a pitbull/blacklab mix (which by the way.... he was NOT aggressive. At all. Pit bulls are NOT aggressive, they are stupid. They are BIG stupid and strong animals that can be easily trained to do things. Almost too much like a fricken horse.) He was a big dummy. I remember when he was a big puppy, he'd think he was still lap dog size and try and sit on us. :O I was a little kid then and this big black dog sitting on me.... But the point is, he knew better than to go into the kitchen or the dining area. It prevented begging. And teaching him not to run up at people for play was crucial because he doesn't know his own strength. There's other reasons too. But his command was always "down."

It doesn't matter how many dogs you have worked with, I know for an absolute fact that there are so many good ways to train and interact with a dog. And anyone who has owned a dog, has been around dogs, works with training dogs, would and should know this.

My point was simply that if a dog is running up to me, I assume it's wanting to attack. A big dog coming up to me like that to play might as well be considered an attack simply because dogs tend to play with their teeth and claws. "People space" is a personal command I use to get my dogs off me. Obviously, not going to work with a dog not trained on this command. It's not something a dog owner HAS to teach their dog, it's just a personal preference of mine, and it works for me.

My ex's german shepherd was an ex police bite dog (my ex being a cop was allowed to adopt her and condition her. One of the K-9 officers got fired.) And if you can imagine, I did NOT want that dog, as sweet as she was, playing with me without an actual toy between me and those teeth... That's where I got the actual command "people space" from. Before it was just "down." (this particular cop dog was taught to ignore "down" for a reason). This dog was not a people dog. I had to do very specific things the first month I moved in... (starting to feel a little sad now...) My ex was really good with her, and she warmed up to me eventually. To the point that she would be allowed to sleep in bed with us. She became insanely protective of me as well as him...

Not trying to argue at all here. Just sharing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ballpythonluvr

You know, no one here is saying that you are stupid. I too made a mistake when I got my first male normal ball python. I had him in a 20 gallon long tank and I had not latched the lid on properly one night before I went to bed. I woke up the next morning and he was gone. I was freaking out because I had a cat with very high prey drive and I have a dog also. Luckily my dog is chill as all get out but I was really worried that the cat would find the snake and potentially hurt him.

I tore my apartment apart to find that little snake. I ended up finding him hiding in the baseboard heater in my bathroom. My bathroom was located in my bedroom which was where my snake and tank were located. He had no injuries and was none the wiser of his little escape. My cat never got to him and luckily I didn't have the baseboard heat running either or he could have been badly burned.

I guess what I am trying to say is that we all make mistakes with keeping these snakes in the beginning and we think we know better when we actually don't. I read your other thread too about the pooping and digestion. My goodness that thread got derailed. I do not believe that these snakes feel emotions but that they are in a sense conditioned. You are lucky Wheatley escaped that dog without any injury. You really should let the poor little guy distress for a while. Lord knows I would be stressed out as hell if some big dog were coming after me.
Try to do your best with Wheatley and let the little dude have some very much needed time off from hanging out and handling.

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For sure. I was calling myself stupid. I didn't think to check for the dog because he normally tries to run up to me as soon as I come down stairs... All that and besides, when my roommate isn't home, the dog is outside. What he was doing inside, I have no idea. It was not something I thought would happen and because of this I call myself stupid.... :rage:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by voodoolamb

Forcing your juvenile ball python to endure the presence of the large predatory animal that had just terrorised it is psychological abuse.

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Is it? I didn't keep him on the floor with the dog... I picked him up and thought being physically out of reach would help... I mean I wasn't dangling him in front of the dog, I had broken the line of sight on the dog's end and the dog was being calm and was sitting like a good boy, calmed down and was far enough away. Snakes are near sighted, aren't they? So he wouldn't be able to see him at that point??

https://media1.giphy.com/media/ULyYV5amK2eYM/200_s.gif

How could you tell that your ball python was sleeping?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sneakysnake611

How could you tell that your ball python was sleeping?

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His eyes, mostly. Snakes don't have eyelids, so nocturnal snakes generally sleep by constricting their pupils. His pupils under normal light are usually less constricted, but when he's sleeping, regardless of light, they are nearly paper thin.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KingWheatley

Dogs have developed in such a way that they can pick up on commands and gestures. Such as pointing.

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Oh I'm familiar with dog psychological development and evolutionary history. I know several researchers in the field on a personal level. They keep me up to date on the latest studies. I am familiar with how to apply the research into real world tasks I have put more than a handful of titles on my own dogs, fosters, and other people's animals.

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The smack was not really an intentional thought process, for sure. If you read, it was more of a desperate knee-jerk reaction. I wasn't really looking to deter, but to get to my snake, which if I had not smacked the dog (which did push him) the snake would have been in the middle of a tug of war. As I mentioned, the puppy is not very well trained, and doesn't always listen to commands.

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My issue is less you intinctively smacking the dog away from your pet and more so about you actually referring to smacking the dog as 'discipline'.

And here you are admitting that it wasn't even a thought out process. That means it was not appropriate discipline. Period.

Quote:

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I can't even imagine if he were a bigger dog. Most assuredly, yes I would have a dead snake on my hands.

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Wouldn't need to be bigger. Just more driven. My small belgian import descended pup would have bitten you and gotten the snake in about 30 seconds. He would have taken the slap as you inviting a fight. Responding to the pressure with more pressure of his own. He is a magnificent drivey dog with a lot of defensive and fight drive. He also will not mind anyone but his handler. You could beat him over the head with a 2 by 4. He wouldn't listen to you. Instead he'd just be all "come at me bro!"

Quote:

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The kitchen is NOT a dog space. The dining area is NOT a dog space. My dogs, my parents dogs, knew better than to go into either of these rooms. And dogs should know better than to come up running at me for fun. That is poor discipline. If I were a threat, that's a different story.

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That worked for your family. Unless your roommate specifically trained the kitchen as a no go space what your parents dogs were trained is irrelevant.

I feed my dogs a diet of raw meat and bones. They eat it in the kitchen as that floor is easiest to sanitize. The kitchen is a dog space here for sure.

Snake on the floor would have been thought of as food.

Quote:

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It doesn't matter how many dogs you have worked with, I know for an absolute fact that there are so many good ways to train and interact with a dog. And anyone who has owned a dog, has been around dogs, works with training dogs, would and should know this.

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There are right ways and wrong ways to train a dog. Can you please name a source of a reputable trainer who advocates hitting as an appropriate discipline method?

Go read the 2009 study by Dr Herron published in the Journal of Applied Animal Behavior.

The study concluded that adversive training techniques results in aggression. Interestingly enough the technique that resulted in the HIGHEST percentage of aggression towards people - at a whopping 41% of the surveyed dogs - was...

Striking the dog: Hitting or kicking.

Hitting dogs results in bites. Yay science. I really didn't want to turn this into a dog training discussion - but these forum posts stick around forever. You never know who is going to stumble across them. To let your statements that hitting the dog was appropriately disciplining it... that is simply DANGEROUS advice.

Quote:

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Is it? I didn't keep him on the floor with the dog... I picked him up and thought being physically out of reach would help... I mean I wasn't dangling him in front of the dog, I had broken the line of sight on the dog's end and the dog was being calm and was sitting like a good boy, calmed down and was far enough away. Snakes are near sighted, aren't they? So he wouldn't be able to see him at that point??

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Sight isn't a snakes strongest sense. Scent. Heat signature. Vibrations.

Yea. I would never try to socialize my snake with anything other than people. As others said, you have no idea how other animals will react and in many cases you're likely not fast enough to stop anything from happening and harm coming to one or the other.

Granted, I didn't read the whole thing. It was a mistake, and you learned.

On an unrelated note.... do you know most kitchens have gaps under the drawers/cabinets? Holes in the walls behind the appliances? I've seen more than one lost it in my kitchen post.

I'm sure others have said it, but please be careful!


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by voodoolamb

Oh I'm familiar with dog psychological development and evolutionary history. I know several researchers in the field on a personal level. They keep me up to date on the latest studies. I am familiar with how to apply the research into real world tasks I have put more than a handful of titles on my own dogs, fosters, and other people's animals.



My issue is less you intinctively smacking the dog away from your pet and more so about you actually referring to smacking the dog as 'discipline'.

And here you are admitting that it wasn't even a thought out process. That means it was not appropriate discipline. Period.



Wouldn't need to be bigger. Just more driven. My small belgian import descended pup would have bitten you and gotten the snake in about 30 seconds. He would have taken the slap as you inviting a fight. Responding to the pressure with more pressure of his own. He is a magnificent drivey dog with a lot of defensive and fight drive. He also will not mind anyone but his handler. You could beat him over the head with a 2 by 4. He wouldn't listen to you. Instead he'd just be all "come at me bro!"



That worked for your family. Unless your roommate specifically trained the kitchen as a no go space what your parents dogs were trained is irrelevant.

I feed my dogs a diet of raw meat and bones. They eat it in the kitchen as that floor is easiest to sanitize. The kitchen is a dog space here for sure.

Snake on the floor would have been thought of as food.



There are right ways and wrong ways to train a dog. Can you please name a source of a reputable trainer who advocates hitting as an appropriate discipline method?

Go read the 2009 study by Dr Herron published in the Journal of Applied Animal Behavior.

The study concluded that adversive training techniques results in aggression. Interestingly enough the technique that resulted in the HIGHEST percentage of aggression towards people - at a whopping 41% of the surveyed dogs - was...

Striking the dog: Hitting or kicking.

Hitting dogs results in bites. Yay science. I really didn't want to turn this into a dog training discussion - but these forum posts stick around forever. You never know who is going to stumble across them. To let your statements that hitting the dog was appropriately disciplining it... that is simply DANGEROUS advice.



Sight isn't a snakes strongest sense. Scent. Heat signature. Vibrations.

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"reputable trainer"... nah. Was just my mom. It worked for our Chow-German shep mixed dog. Given it was more of a spank than anything. Unsurprisingly wouldn't work on the pitlab...

Ihavent been bitten aggressively by a dog yet. Thought a smack was enough to send a pain response which would shock the dog... much like water spray with a cat. Like it makes them forget what they were doing. Gives you a chance to correct instead of just punish.

this was what I understood, however.

off topic... kinda, but interested. How about the dog whisperer? I've watched maybe a couple of his shows and I'm curious if he truly gets dogs to listen simply by poking them and making a noise, or if he trains them in between takes...

Belgian import...?

hm...

He eats fine. Sheds fine. Poops fine.

.[/QUOTE]

You seem to keep saying that but you've had him what, a whole month so you can still count how many times he's done those things on one hand. I can tell you're excited to have a snake but really agree that you're on the path to "love him to death". The people here are just passionate about BPS and only want to see Wheatley happy, try not to get so defensive about everything. That'll help you in every aspect of your life.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KingWheatley

"reputable trainer"... nah. Was just my mom. It worked for our Chow-German shep mixed dog. Given it was more of a spank than anything. Unsurprisingly wouldn't work on the pitlab...

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Yeah. I'd suggest reading some studies on canine behavior and learning. Science proves time and time again that reward based training is the most effective. From pets to military working dogs.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...68159107003954

Quote:

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Ihavent been bitten aggressively by a dog yet. Thought a smack was enough to send a pain response which would shock the dog... much like water spray with a cat. Like it makes them forget what they were doing. Gives you a chance to correct instead of just punish.

this was what I understood, however.

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Smack the wrong dog and you have a holy fight on your hand.
http://www.patriciamcconnell.com/the...cit-aggression

Good example: My youngest dog has an incredibly strong defensive drive and lots of genetic human aggression. He bit a man who reached into my car window and grabbed me. The initial bite was restrained then the guy started punching the dog in the head. Dude ended up needing a lot of stitches. The dog was hit hard enough that he had a grapefruit sized swelling on his head. All that pain response did for him was get him to bite harder.

That same dog is also slightly handler aggressive. Meaning if you were to give him what he considers an unfair correction - he WILL bite you back. My trainer was working him in heel and gave him a leash pop. Dog came up the leash and gave my trainer a good bruising bite on his forearm for it.

Quote:

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off topic... kinda, but interested. How about the dog whisperer? I've watched maybe a couple of his shows and I'm curious if he truly gets dogs to listen simply by poking them and making a noise, or if he trains them in between takes...

---

Ceasar Millan is a joke. Far from a reputable or skilled trainer. He uses a severely outdated dominance theory training techniques which have been disproven time and time again. He has the bite scars to prove that his techniques are confrontational and result in the dogs pushing back. The show is carefully edited to not show the worse of the worse.

One of the most reputable organizations concerning domestic animal behavior - The American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior has spoken out against Millan's techniques time and time again.

Any dog savvy person can see signs of stress while he is working with dogs. The episode with the tile floor phobic great dane was especially cringe worthy. He used flooding techniques instead of desensitizing and the dog was clearly terrified. Not a great option for maintaining the human animal bond.

Interestingly enough, in the 2009 study on aversive techniques causing aggression, Ceasar Millan's classic "Scchhtttt" sound actually made an appearance. And yeah. It wasn't effective and caused problems when used outside of TV world lmao

Quote:

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Belgian import...?

hm...

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Yep. My personal dog's sire was a dual purpose K9. Imported from Belgium. Had a good productive career with several criminal apprehensions and drug busts. One heck of a dog. His pup isn't too bad either if I do say so myself :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by voodoolamb

Yeah. I'd suggest reading some studies on canine behavior and learning. Science proves time and time again that reward based training is the most effective. From pets to military working dogs.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...68159107003954



Smack the wrong dog and you have a holy fight on your hand.
http://www.patriciamcconnell.com/the...cit-aggression

Good example: My youngest dog has an incredibly strong defensive drive and lots of genetic human aggression. He bit a man who reached into my car window and grabbed me. The initial bite was restrained then the guy started punching the dog in the head. Dude ended up needing a lot of stitches. The dog was hit hard enough that he had a grapefruit sized swelling on his head. All that pain response did for him was get him to bite harder.

That same dog is also slightly handler aggressive. Meaning if you were to give him what he considers an unfair correction - he WILL bite you back. My trainer was working him in heel and gave him a leash pop. Dog came up the leash and gave my trainer a good bruising bite on his forearm for it.



Ceasar Millan is a joke. Far from a reputable or skilled trainer. He uses a severely outdated dominance theory training techniques which have been disproven time and time again. He has the bite scars to prove that his techniques are confrontational and result in the dogs pushing back. The show is carefully edited to not show the worse of the worse.

One of the most reputable organizations concerning domestic animal behavior - The American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior has spoken out against Millan's techniques time and time again.

Any dog savvy person can see signs of stress while he is working with dogs. The episode with the tile floor phobic great dane was especially cringe worthy. He used flooding techniques instead of desensitizing and the dog was clearly terrified. Not a great option for maintaining the human animal bond.

Interestingly enough, in the 2009 study on aversive techniques causing aggression, Ceasar Millan's classic "Scchhtttt" sound actually made an appearance. And yeah. It wasn't effective and caused problems when used outside of TV world lmao



Yep. My personal dog's sire was a dual purpose K9. Imported from Belgium. Had a good productive career with several criminal apprehensions and drug busts. One heck of a dog. His pup isn't too bad either if I do say so myself :D

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Good lord... I only saw two episodes of the show and it seemed fishy to me that the only people he was "helping" were rather rich, gullible sounding people.

A dog is so much like a child... with sharp teeth....

Your dog sounds very challenging and really cool. I'll have to get in touch with you some other time about them because Eventually I would like to work with animals.

But getting back to topic, though, because I do have a floating question I haven't asked yet...

Snakes don't have a developed brain like ours, so does this mean they don't have a memory of events? If they do, how long does it take for it to cycle out? I ask because I need to feed him, but before I leave for the store I have to take him out to weigh him.... And I definitely want him to be more relaxed.

All the dog training stuff aside, you should really take the advice about letting your snake be for a while. Just let him chill in his tank with no distractions for a while. Seriously. He has to be a nervous wreck right now. Just think about how you would feel if a barking giant with huge teeth was aggressive towards you. It would take you a bit to get over that. Snakes don't get over things by being comforted by humans. They get over them by being left alone in a place they deem to be safe and secure. There is no doubt that you love your snake. Show him how much you love him by letting him relax for a while. That would be the best thing for him right now. There will be plenty of time to hold him and show him off when he is bigger and more adjusted.

:rage:After reading this entire thread I'm sick and just plain mad. You're damn lucky you don't have a dead snake; really lucky. And it would have been 100% your fault, not the dog's not your roommate's. You are stressing out your snake in the most extreme ways possible; to the point I would honestly call it abuse.

I own two dogs and a smack wouldn't have deterred either one; you would be the owner of a dead snake.

I suggest you you leave the poor snake in his tank, feed him in his tank and quit taking him out to "explore". If you continue I expect to see either "my snake is dead" thread or "my snake is missing!" thread.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cletus

All the dog training stuff aside, you should really take the advice about letting your snake be for a while. Just let him chill in his tank with no distractions for a while. Seriously. He has to be a nervous wreck right now. Just think about how you would feel if a barking giant with huge teeth was aggressive towards you. It would take you a bit to get over that. Snakes don't get over things by being comforted by humans. They get over them by being left alone in a place they deem to be safe and secure. There is no doubt that you love your snake. Show him how much you love him by letting him relax for a while. That would be the best thing for him right now. There will be plenty of time to hold him and show him off when he is bigger and more adjusted.

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I havent touched him since. I do need to take him out to weigh him so I can get the proper meal size. He's two days behind as of tomorrow...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KingWheatley

I do need to take him out to weigh him so I can get the proper meal size.

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You do not need to weigh to buy food. Look at the diameter and go from there.

On the off-topic of dogs, +1 that Cesar Millan is a joke. He's recently been catching up a bit on even just the common current knowledge and methods on dog training, but his old "training methods" were a wreck before. Did you know he doesn't even have certifications or training on dog training or behavior, he was a DOG GROOMER who decided he wanted to make a tv show. Actually because of this guy, dog training on pets with general owners backtracked at least 30 years back into dominance/punishment methods, before getting back on track again just recently. :/ His clients on the show also don't know their left hand from their right. The show is also obviously edited to only include the "successful" footage, and I don't doubt for a second that many of the dogs who were having fear related issues backtracked as well, after they're done filming.

Back to snakes LOL- I agree, it would be a good idea to let Wheatley chill and grow up a bit. Even just handling him twice a week for 10-20 minutes only would be fine. You can trust that when he gets bigger, maybe around 500g, he will naturally become chill and act "socialized" with no extra work on your end.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KingWheatley

I havent touched him since. I do need to take him out to weigh him so I can get the proper meal size. He's two days behind as of tomorrow...

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His meal shouldn't be much bigger than the last one you gave him. You don't need to weigh him, just use the same size meal as last week.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by redshepherd

Did you know he doesn't even have certifications or training on dog training or behavior

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Not defending him but this is always a thing I cant help but laugh about. "Certifications" or paper given to one person by another person deeming them knowledgeable. Hands on knowledge and observation means more in my eyes than paper ;)
I know a bunch of technicians but I am proud to be a real world live mechanic also know as a Grease Monkey :gj:

This could go on and on with this but I would rather gain knowledge from people that have actual hands on experience than from anyone that has studied it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Not defending him but this is always a thing I cant help but laugh about. "Certifications" or paper given to one person by another person deeming them knowledgeable. Hands on knowledge and observation means more in my eyes than paper ;)
I know a bunch of technicians but I am proud to be a real world live mechanic also know as a Grease Monkey :gj:

This could go on and on with this but I would rather gain knowledge from people that have actual hands on experience than from anyone that has studied it.

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In the dog world, certifications would be success with working dogs, whether training in bed bug detection or search and rescue, or even advanced titles on competitive sports dogs. My nose work trainer does Search and Rescue with her malinois for over 15 years and she trains detection dogs, and I wouldn't completely trust anyone not experienced in this stuff. I don't mean just going through "dog school", those are pretty useless! Lol

Certifying the animal or trainer are different.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Certifying the animal or trainer are different.

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I guess just semantics on the word "certify" right now, because I guess I'm using it wrong. I mean "real life experience and recorded success" as certifications right now LOL

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

You do not need to weigh to buy food. Look at the diameter and go from there.

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I did that before, and was feeding him fuzzies. I don't remember if you were part of that conversation, but Deborah made it very clear I can't eyeball very well.

That being said, he does well with the large mice, so I think I should be good getting that again? He's gotten bigger.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by KingWheatley

I did that before, and was feeding him fuzzies. I don't remember if you were part of that conversation, but Deborah made it very clear I can't eyeball very well.

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I remember the thread and by now you should have a better idea of food size.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

I remember the thread and by now you should have a better idea of food size.

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Nothing wrong with being OCD and trying to be exact. I have a general idea of my snakes' weight and I like to weigh the rats before I feed them off. I only have 2, so that's not a tremendous feat. I just don't trust my ability to eyeball it, although I have done it before.

That being said, in this case, it's certainly warranted to let the snake relax and eyeball it. The most the snake weighs is what he weighed last + the rat you fed him last week.


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We have three dogs. We call them "hairy monsters" in relation to the snakes. We have trained the dogs that when we say "snake" to them, they're supposed to stay down/away. But we still keep the more defensive or timid snakes away from the dogs at all times, and all the snakes out of dog range if the dogs are wound up or unaware that snakes are out (for example, we hear paws incoming at anything more than an amble)


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