Stupid BP Owner

[KingWheatley]

As far as I know, feeding time isn't stressful. Do you feed him in the viv or take him out? I would just give him his food in the viv to give him as little stress as possible.
Remember to leave him for a week after feeding

I usually feed him in his tank.

[KingWheatley]

So you had him out while cooking? So you couldn't give him your undivided attention.

I had him out while the pasta was boiling. THat doesn't require attention at all. Wheatley had my undivided attention.

Shouldn't you have, ya know, checked where the 70 ish lb wolf descendant was before allowing your juvenile snake to free roam in the dogs area of the house?

Yes. I should have. It was a huge mistake to think my roommate would do what he always does. Besides that, the dog usually gets really excited when I come downstairs, so there was honestly no way I could have made any other assumption other than he was outside. I will be more careful in the future.

In no way could a pony tail be a shelter for a bp...

....? My hair isn't always in a pony tail... Adding in details into your own mental picture is fine, but I didn't wrap him around my hair. He was around my neck and my hair was like a curtain. I'm sorry if this isn't a suitable quick solution, but I was trying to get the dog to behave, keep the pasta from over-boiling, and keep the snake out of reach of the dog.

If it were my dog we would having major words.

Well I'm glad it's not your dog then. Because I don't tolerate any dog getting into my personal space without permission, let alone dashing at me. It's a mark of a very badly trained and hyperactive dog that will rush at you and jump on you. He deserves the smack he got for not listening to commands. You act like I punched him? I smacked him. Smacks hurt, sure. But they don't break bones. Discipline is important for dogs as well as children, and even horses.

Spoiling your dog is as bad as spoiling your horse or child.

As for snakes, yes, it's been made plain that I'm a big of a greenhorn when it comes to experience with them. But to be fair, there is a lot of mixed information out there. Go take a look. What works for you isn't what works for HLC Python, 1SoftKiss, or SnakeBytes. Not 100%. These snake owners know their stuff, and while some information may come off as a little strange, I can see why they see what they see. Does this make sense?

But believe what you want to.

[voodoolamb]

Well I'm glad it's not your dog then. Because I don't tolerate any dog getting into my personal space without permission, let alone dashing at me. It's a mark of a very badly trained and hyperactive dog that will rush at you and jump on you. He deserves the smack he got for not listening to commands. You act like I punched him? I smacked him. Smacks hurt, sure. But they don't break bones. Discipline is important for dogs as well as children, and even horses.

Spoiling your dog is as bad as spoiling your horse or child.

Not turning this into a dog training arguement, of which I assure you I have far more experience with than you. (Mentored with some rather big names in that world)

Smacking is not an appropriate type of discipline for a canine. Hitting is primate behavior that doesn't have an equivalent in dog language. Proper discipline alao has to be delivered in a calm cool and collected way to be effective. Don't think what you did was disciplining the dog. It was just pushing him back to collect your pet... which had no business being loose in the dog's area of the house. Which is what we would be having words about.

Of course you are lucky it was a golden. I work with much higher drive dogs. A smack would not deter them and you absolutely would have a dead snake on your hands. But I digress.

As for snakes, yes, it's been made plain that I'm a big of a greenhorn when it comes to experience with them. But to be fair, there is a lot of mixed information out there. Go take a look. What works for you isn't what works for HLC Python, 1SoftKiss, or SnakeBytes. Not 100%. These snake owners know their stuff, and while some information may come off as a little strange, I can see why they see what they see. Does this make sense?

I'm only familiar with the last 2. Snakebite is a fine source. But softkiss majorly anthromorphises her animals and takes a LOT of risks with them. Not a person to emulate if you care about your snake's welfare.

....? My hair isn't always in a pony tail... Adding in details into your own mental picture is fine, but I didn't wrap him around my hair. He was around my neck and my hair was like a curtain. I'm sorry if this isn't a suitable quick solution, but I was trying to get the dog to behave, keep the pasta from over-boiling, and keep the snake out of reach of the dog.

It actually doesn't matter what your hair style was. Even long hair worn down in a curtain can in no way be conceived as a proper secure hide for a ball python.

You cared more about your pasta over boiling than getting your snake to feel secure. That is sickening to me.

Forcing your juvenile ball python to endure the presence of the large predatory animal that had just terrorised it is psychological abuse.

Poor snake.

[PitOnTheProwl]

Well I'm glad it's not your dog then. Because I don't tolerate any dog getting into my personal space without permission, let alone dashing at me. It's a mark of a very badly trained and hyperactive dog that will rush at you and jump on you. He deserves the smack he got for not listening to commands. You act like I punched him? I smacked him. Smacks hurt, sure. But they don't break bones. Discipline is important for dogs as well as children, and even horses.

Personal space?? Normally I would say this only exists in your house BUT you have a room mate so everything other than your room is communal space.
The dog does not understand this as it was/is in the communal area where allowed.
As far as "deserving" yeah its probably a good thing is wasn't one of my 5 dogs.

As for snakes, yes, it's been made plain that I'm a big of a greenhorn when it comes to experience with them. But to be fair, there is a lot of mixed information out there. Go take a look. What works for you isn't what works for HLC Python, 1SoftKiss, or SnakeBytes. Not 100%. These snake owners know their stuff, and while some information may come off as a little strange, I can see why they see what they see. Does this make sense?

There are many snake owners that "know their stuff" and offer information. Problem is the receptive side doesn't want to play their part.
BTW Brian Barczyk is a great guy, you should try watching more of his videos and listening to them.

[ballpythonluvr]

You know, no one here is saying that you are stupid. I too made a mistake when I got my first male normal ball python. I had him in a 20 gallon long tank and I had not latched the lid on properly one night before I went to bed. I woke up the next morning and he was gone. I was freaking out because I had a cat with very high prey drive and I have a dog also. Luckily my dog is chill as all get out but I was really worried that the cat would find the snake and potentially hurt him.

I tore my apartment apart to find that little snake. I ended up finding him hiding in the baseboard heater in my bathroom. My bathroom was located in my bedroom which was where my snake and tank were located. He had no injuries and was none the wiser of his little escape. My cat never got to him and luckily I didn't have the baseboard heat running either or he could have been badly burned.

I guess what I am trying to say is that we all make mistakes with keeping these snakes in the beginning and we think we know better when we actually don't. I read your other thread too about the pooping and digestion. My goodness that thread got derailed. I do not believe that these snakes feel emotions but that they are in a sense conditioned. You are lucky Wheatley escaped that dog without any injury. You really should let the poor little guy distress for a while. Lord knows I would be stressed out as hell if some big dog were coming after me.

I also want to speak on behalf on Deborah. She may seem rude and like a know it a all but she is a great lady. I have been on this forum for a while now and I have learned a lot from her. Hell, when I was first on here I got an infraction from her but I just dealt with it and moved on. As I got to know her and learn from her I found out that she is a pretty cool person. The mods have a tough job on here and they are not there to sugar coat things. They will tell it like it is and they also do their best to be of help with answering questions. Give the mods a little slack. I used to be a mod on here and I can say from experience that it is not an easy task at times.

Try to do your best with Wheatley and let the little dude have some very much needed time off from hanging out and handling.

[KingWheatley]

Personal space?? Normally I would say this only exists in your house BUT you have a room mate so everything other than your room is communal space.
The dog does not understand this as it was/is in the communal area where allowed.

I know this. Regardless of this, I do try to teach him to not jump up on people. But when your roommate likes to play with him when he's being bad... It's his first dog ever. And both him and his daughter don't use firm voices at all with the dog. The dog listens to me more than anyone, though.

That dog's claws have cut me more times than I'd like. And he's a medium sized dog. He's very friendly with his teeth. I'm at an absolute loss on how to get this puppy to understand that it's not ok...

Smacking is not an appropriate type of discipline for a canine. Hitting is primate behavior that doesn't have an equivalent in dog language. Proper discipline alao has to be delivered in a calm cool and collected way to be effective. Don't think what you did was disciplining the dog. It was just pushing him back to collect your pet... which had no business being loose in the dog's area of the house. Which is what we would be having words about.

Of course you are lucky it was a golden. I work with much higher drive dogs. A smack would not deter them...

Dogs have developed in such a way that they can pick up on commands and gestures. Such as pointing.

The smack was not really an intentional thought process, for sure. If you read, it was more of a desperate knee-jerk reaction. I wasn't really looking to deter, but to get to my snake, which if I had not smacked the dog (which did push him) the snake would have been in the middle of a tug of war. As I mentioned, the puppy is not very well trained, and doesn't always listen to commands.

I can't even imagine if he were a bigger dog. Most assuredly, yes I would have a dead snake on my hands.

The kitchen is NOT a dog space. The dining area is NOT a dog space. My dogs, my parents dogs, knew better than to go into either of these rooms. And dogs should know better than to come up running at me for fun. That is poor discipline. If I were a threat, that's a different story. Perhaps I'm just pulling from experience with a pitbull/blacklab mix (which by the way.... he was NOT aggressive. At all. Pit bulls are NOT aggressive, they are stupid. They are BIG stupid and strong animals that can be easily trained to do things. Almost too much like a fricken horse.) He was a big dummy. I remember when he was a big puppy, he'd think he was still lap dog size and try and sit on us. I was a little kid then and this big black dog sitting on me.... But the point is, he knew better than to go into the kitchen or the dining area. It prevented begging. And teaching him not to run up at people for play was crucial because he doesn't know his own strength. There's other reasons too. But his command was always "down."

It doesn't matter how many dogs you have worked with, I know for an absolute fact that there are so many good ways to train and interact with a dog. And anyone who has owned a dog, has been around dogs, works with training dogs, would and should know this.

My point was simply that if a dog is running up to me, I assume it's wanting to attack. A big dog coming up to me like that to play might as well be considered an attack simply because dogs tend to play with their teeth and claws. "People space" is a personal command I use to get my dogs off me. Obviously, not going to work with a dog not trained on this command. It's not something a dog owner HAS to teach their dog, it's just a personal preference of mine, and it works for me.

My ex's german shepherd was an ex police bite dog (my ex being a cop was allowed to adopt her and condition her. One of the K-9 officers got fired.) And if you can imagine, I did NOT want that dog, as sweet as she was, playing with me without an actual toy between me and those teeth... That's where I got the actual command "people space" from. Before it was just "down." (this particular cop dog was taught to ignore "down" for a reason). This dog was not a people dog. I had to do very specific things the first month I moved in... (starting to feel a little sad now...) My ex was really good with her, and she warmed up to me eventually. To the point that she would be allowed to sleep in bed with us. She became insanely protective of me as well as him...

Not trying to argue at all here. Just sharing.

You know, no one here is saying that you are stupid. I too made a mistake when I got my first male normal ball python. I had him in a 20 gallon long tank and I had not latched the lid on properly one night before I went to bed. I woke up the next morning and he was gone. I was freaking out because I had a cat with very high prey drive and I have a dog also. Luckily my dog is chill as all get out but I was really worried that the cat would find the snake and potentially hurt him.

I tore my apartment apart to find that little snake. I ended up finding him hiding in the baseboard heater in my bathroom. My bathroom was located in my bedroom which was where my snake and tank were located. He had no injuries and was none the wiser of his little escape. My cat never got to him and luckily I didn't have the baseboard heat running either or he could have been badly burned.

I guess what I am trying to say is that we all make mistakes with keeping these snakes in the beginning and we think we know better when we actually don't. I read your other thread too about the pooping and digestion. My goodness that thread got derailed. I do not believe that these snakes feel emotions but that they are in a sense conditioned. You are lucky Wheatley escaped that dog without any injury. You really should let the poor little guy distress for a while. Lord knows I would be stressed out as hell if some big dog were coming after me.
Try to do your best with Wheatley and let the little dude have some very much needed time off from hanging out and handling.

For sure. I was calling myself stupid. I didn't think to check for the dog because he normally tries to run up to me as soon as I come down stairs... All that and besides, when my roommate isn't home, the dog is outside. What he was doing inside, I have no idea. It was not something I thought would happen and because of this I call myself stupid....

Forcing your juvenile ball python to endure the presence of the large predatory animal that had just terrorised it is psychological abuse.

Is it? I didn't keep him on the floor with the dog... I picked him up and thought being physically out of reach would help... I mean I wasn't dangling him in front of the dog, I had broken the line of sight on the dog's end and the dog was being calm and was sitting like a good boy, calmed down and was far enough away. Snakes are near sighted, aren't they? So he wouldn't be able to see him at that point??

[dkatz4]

[sneakysnake611]

How could you tell that your ball python was sleeping?

[KingWheatley]

How could you tell that your ball python was sleeping?

His eyes, mostly. Snakes don't have eyelids, so nocturnal snakes generally sleep by constricting their pupils. His pupils under normal light are usually less constricted, but when he's sleeping, regardless of light, they are nearly paper thin.

[voodoolamb]

Dogs have developed in such a way that they can pick up on commands and gestures. Such as pointing.

Oh I'm familiar with dog psychological development and evolutionary history. I know several researchers in the field on a personal level. They keep me up to date on the latest studies. I am familiar with how to apply the research into real world tasks I have put more than a handful of titles on my own dogs, fosters, and other people's animals.

The smack was not really an intentional thought process, for sure. If you read, it was more of a desperate knee-jerk reaction. I wasn't really looking to deter, but to get to my snake, which if I had not smacked the dog (which did push him) the snake would have been in the middle of a tug of war. As I mentioned, the puppy is not very well trained, and doesn't always listen to commands.

My issue is less you intinctively smacking the dog away from your pet and more so about you actually referring to smacking the dog as 'discipline'.

And here you are admitting that it wasn't even a thought out process. That means it was not appropriate discipline. Period.

I can't even imagine if he were a bigger dog. Most assuredly, yes I would have a dead snake on my hands.

Wouldn't need to be bigger. Just more driven. My small belgian import descended pup would have bitten you and gotten the snake in about 30 seconds. He would have taken the slap as you inviting a fight. Responding to the pressure with more pressure of his own. He is a magnificent drivey dog with a lot of defensive and fight drive. He also will not mind anyone but his handler. You could beat him over the head with a 2 by 4. He wouldn't listen to you. Instead he'd just be all "come at me bro!"

The kitchen is NOT a dog space. The dining area is NOT a dog space. My dogs, my parents dogs, knew better than to go into either of these rooms. And dogs should know better than to come up running at me for fun. That is poor discipline. If I were a threat, that's a different story.

That worked for your family. Unless your roommate specifically trained the kitchen as a no go space what your parents dogs were trained is irrelevant.

I feed my dogs a diet of raw meat and bones. They eat it in the kitchen as that floor is easiest to sanitize. The kitchen is a dog space here for sure.

Snake on the floor would have been thought of as food.

It doesn't matter how many dogs you have worked with, I know for an absolute fact that there are so many good ways to train and interact with a dog. And anyone who has owned a dog, has been around dogs, works with training dogs, would and should know this.

There are right ways and wrong ways to train a dog. Can you please name a source of a reputable trainer who advocates hitting as an appropriate discipline method?

Go read the 2009 study by Dr Herron published in the Journal of Applied Animal Behavior.

The study concluded that adversive training techniques results in aggression. Interestingly enough the technique that resulted in the HIGHEST percentage of aggression towards people - at a whopping 41% of the surveyed dogs - was...

Striking the dog: Hitting or kicking.

Hitting dogs results in bites. Yay science. I really didn't want to turn this into a dog training discussion - but these forum posts stick around forever. You never know who is going to stumble across them. To let your statements that hitting the dog was appropriately disciplining it... that is simply DANGEROUS advice.

Is it? I didn't keep him on the floor with the dog... I picked him up and thought being physically out of reach would help... I mean I wasn't dangling him in front of the dog, I had broken the line of sight on the dog's end and the dog was being calm and was sitting like a good boy, calmed down and was far enough away. Snakes are near sighted, aren't they? So he wouldn't be able to see him at that point??

Sight isn't a snakes strongest sense. Scent. Heat signature. Vibrations.