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Pet Store Feeders and Pet policy...yet another spinoff
If you do use a live chick, NEVER tell the feed store what you are planning to do with it. It's ALWAYS going to be a pet. I made the mistake once of calling a feed store to inquire if they had any small chicks and when they asked if I was going to be keeping them indoors or outdoors, I responded with "Oh they are gonna be food for my boa." That ended with her response of "We don't sell chicks as food for other animals, please try somewhere else." in a very stern and angered tone. :mad:
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Re: Alternate snake food ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sauzo
If you do use a live chick, NEVER tell the feed store what you are planning to do with it. It's ALWAYS going to be a pet. I made the mistake once of calling a feed store to inquire if they had any small chicks and when they asked if I was going to be keeping them indoors or outdoors, I responded with "Oh they are gonna be food for my boa." That ended with her response of "We don't sell chicks as food for other animals, please try somewhere else." in a very stern and angered tone. :mad:
I had the same issue with petsmart and mice. I was kind of pissed. I called the manager and told them that I could use the mouse I bought for whatever (the hell) I wanted, and it was none of their (damn) business. He felt bad that I was treated so rudely and gave me three for free.
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I don't know. I have a feeling if some people sold/gave/traded their baby BP's to someone and that person ended up just feeding them to their kingsnake, some people might get upset.
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Re: Alternate snake food ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sauzo
If you do use a live chick, NEVER tell the feed store what you are planning to do with it. It's ALWAYS going to be a pet. I made the mistake once of calling a feed store to inquire if they had any small chicks and when they asked if I was going to be keeping them indoors or outdoors, I responded with "Oh they are gonna be food for my boa." That ended with her response of "We don't sell chicks as food for other animals, please try somewhere else." in a very stern and angered tone. :mad:
Weird. Chickens are traditionally raised as food animals anyway, so I don't see why a feed store would care about when or by what they get eaten. Feeding it young to a boa or raising it for a family meal doesn't make much of a difference in the end, does it?
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Re: Alternate snake food ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyAndMelissa
I had the same issue with petsmart and mice. I was kind of pissed. I called the manager and told them that I could use the mouse I bought for whatever (the hell) I wanted, and it was none of their (damn) business. He felt bad that I was treated so rudely and gave me three for free.
Being treated rudely is one thing, and not having been there I'm not going to comment on the customer service of that situation. However, PetSmart does have a policy that any associate can refuse the sale of any animal to any person if they do not feel comfortable with the home the animal is going to. They also have a policy not to sell their pet animals as feeders. It's useless to get pissed over this because they're well within their rights to do so (and personally, I completely agree with it).
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Re: Alternate snake food ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Alan
Being treated rudely is one thing, and not having been there I'm not going to comment on the customer service of that situation. However, PetSmart does have a policy that any associate can refuse the sale of any animal to any person if they do not feel comfortable with the home the animal is going to. They also have a policy not to sell their pet animals as feeders. It's useless to get pissed over this because they're well within their rights to do so (and personally, I completely agree with it).
I didn't tell them it was for my snake, I just asked how much they were, and the woman was incredibly rude and saying "you better not use it as food or something." the assumption was what pissed me off, not so much the food policy. And the fact that she hung up on me after giving me a price. That's not very good customer service if you ask me.
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People can be really wierd. I had similar problems years ago. I'm way too honest sometimes, and I would call rabbit breeders looking for feed for my burms. Even drove 15 miles to a lady's farm to be told no when I inquired about something a bit smaller than what she had, since smaller wasn't weaned, and that led to questions. Had a meat breeder that would work with me for a while, but I eventually had to get rid of my burms because of issues with food supply.
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Re: Alternate snake food ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyAndMelissa
I had the same issue with petsmart and mice. I was kind of pissed. I called the manager and told them that I could use the mouse I bought for whatever (the hell) I wanted, and it was none of their (damn) business. He felt bad that I was treated so rudely and gave me three for free.
I had the same problem at Petco! The salesman told me that he couldn't sell me the colored mice for reptile food but if I wanted white mice that would be ok. I said you have to be kidding me! When I asked for the manager the salesman changed his tune and was willing to sell me the colored mice. He explained it as Petco has to give you a different part of the receipt if you are purchasing as a pet rather than food for a snake. Sounded plausible, but a little discriminatory to me. Especially since their mice both colored and white are way overpriced. I think they just cater more to the people that want to keep mice as pets. Lol. :)
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Re: Alternate snake food ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Albert Clark
I had the same problem at Petco! The salesman told me that he couldn't sell me the colored mice for reptile food but if I wanted white mice that would be ok. I said you have to be kidding me! When I asked for the manager the salesman changed his tune and was willing to sell me the colored mice. He explained it as Petco has to give you a different part of the receipt if you are purchasing as a pet rather than food for a snake. Sounded plausible, but a little discriminatory to me. Especially since their mice both colored and white are way overpriced. I think they just cater more to the people that want to keep mice as pets. Lol. :)
I generally buy white when they're live anyways. Most people prefer colored mice for pets, so I'm just being nice. Lol. I switched over to f/t.
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Re: Alternate snake food ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Albert Clark
I had the same problem at Petco! The salesman told me that he couldn't sell me the colored mice for reptile food but if I wanted white mice that would be ok. I said you have to be kidding me! When I asked for the manager the salesman changed his tune and was willing to sell me the colored mice. He explained it as Petco has to give you a different part of the receipt if you are purchasing as a pet rather than food for a snake. Sounded plausible, but a little discriminatory to me. Especially since their mice both colored and white are way overpriced. I think they just cater more to the people that want to keep mice as pets. Lol. :)
I don't know how many people actually keep mice as pets. Besides being really small, flighty, and smelling AWFUL; there are many other small mammals that make better pet animals like hamsters or gerbils. Rats I can see being better pets, if for no other reason than they're sturdier and easier to find should they get out, but there are still a good many alternatives. Rats and mice are cheaper of course, but I think it can safely be said that the reasons behind that are the abundance of them in the trade (mostly due to the need for feeders) and the relatively low pet demand for them.
If not for the fact that our pets eat each other, I would think rat and mice keepers would get along well with each other if only because both groups are very familiar with the "cringe" when you tell people what kinds of pets you have.
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Re: Alternate snake food ?
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Originally Posted by Daigga
I don't know how many people actually keep mice as pets. Besides being really small, flighty, and smelling AWFUL; there are many other small mammals that make better pet animals like hamsters or gerbils.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daigga
If not for the fact that our pets eat each other, I would think rat and mice keepers would get along well with each other if only because both groups are very familiar with the "cringe" when you tell people what kinds of pets you have.
I think you just answered your own question. Especially being involved with this hobby, I'm not about to judge another group of people for their choice of pet. ;)
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Re: Alternate snake food ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daigga
I don't know how many people actually keep mice as pets. Besides being really small, flighty, and smelling AWFUL; there are many other small mammals that make better pet animals like hamsters or gerbils. Rats I can see being better pets, if for no other reason than they're sturdier and easier to find should they get out, but there are still a good many alternatives. Rats and mice are cheaper of course, but I think it can safely be said that the reasons behind that are the abundance of them in the trade (mostly due to the need for feeders) and the relatively low pet demand for them.
If not for the fact that our pets eat each other, I would think rat and mice keepers would get along well with each other if only because both groups are very familiar with the "cringe" when you tell people what kinds of pets you have.
I keep several species of mice as pets. Domestic (larger and longer show bodied mice, different from "fancy" pet store mice, not available in pet stores), spiny, ASF, and deer mice. In the case of domestic mice, I highly disagree; hamsters are bitey, and gerbils are too jumpy to really enjoy handling. Mice are smarter, and colonize well. They have probably the largest genetic variation of any of those rodents (think morphs), which is fascinating to work with. Their largest downfall is thier link with cancer. Rats have the same problem.
Rats are great rodent pets, besides the health concerns. Very smart.
Also, snake people would never get along with rat and mouse keepers. Rat and mouse keepers rarely get along with rat and mouse keepers. I know a lot of amazing rat and mouse people, but it's a largely unfriendly community in my experience, with intense politics (LOLitics), castes, cliques, shunning, and bullying. A lot of "don't give any mice to so-and-so because I don't like her, and if you give your mice to her you're banned from the shows and off of the forums and you'll be shunned". Current drama with the mouse people in the east coast involves on of the "top" people making a fake FB profile in order to spy and see who is talking to who, as some people aren't "supposed to talk to other people." Never seen things like this in the reptile community.
A lot of rat and mouse people secretly or openly have reptiles, and feed all of thier culls to them. That's where all of my culls go.
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Re: Alternate snake food ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyAndMelissa
I had the same issue with petsmart and mice. I was kind of pissed. I called the manager and told them that I could use the mouse I bought for whatever (the hell) I wanted, and it was none of their (damn) business. He felt bad that I was treated so rudely and gave me three for free.
You were mad because a PET STORE which sell live animals for PETS refused to sell you PETS for FOOD?
Pet stores have different policies in regards to that and I can respect that.
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Re: Alternate snake food ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinz
You were mad because a PET STORE which sell live animals for PETS refused to sell you PETS for FOOD?
Pet stores have different policies in regards to that and I can respect that.
I was mad that they made the assumption that it was for food. I never once said what the mouse was for. Unfortunately I live in a small town, and they knew me, they know I own a snake, but to ASSUME that I was going to use the mouse for food was rude (even though I was, it was besides the point). She should have never asked a customer that question. Even the manager was mad she handled it in that way. I didn't say "how much are your feeder mice?" I said "how much do your adult mice cost?" and she came at me snarky with something along the lines of "you better not be using it for snake food". I don't remember the exact words, but that's the tone she used for sure.
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Re: Alternate snake food ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyAndMelissa
I was mad that they made the assumption that it was for food. I never once said what the mouse was for. Unfortunately I live in a small town, and they knew me, they know I own a snake, but to ASSUME that I was going to use the mouse for food was rude (even though I was, it was besides the point). She should have never asked a customer that question.
I completely agree that she shouldn't have asked it in the way that she asked it. However, she most certainly should be asking that question at some point during the sale (and, no offense intended, especially when selling to someone who they know to be a "risk-factor", for better or worse).
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Re: Alternate snake food ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyAndMelissa
I was mad that they made the assumption that it was for food. I never once said what the mouse was for. Unfortunately I live in a small town, and they knew me, they know I own a snake, but to ASSUME that I was going to use the mouse for food was rude (even though I was, it was besides the point). She should have never asked a customer that question. Even the manager was mad she handled it in that way. I didn't say "how much are your feeder mice?" I said "how much do your adult mice cost?" and she came at me snarky with something along the lines of "you better not be using it for snake food". I don't remember the exact words, but that's the tone she used for sure.
So you're mad that she figured you would use it for food, which you did?
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Re: Alternate snake food ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Alan
I completely agree that she shouldn't have asked it in the way that she asked it. However, she most certainly should be asking that question at some point during the sale (and, no offense intended, especially when selling to someone who they know to be a "risk-factor", for better or worse).
And I would understand if I had monty wrapped round my shoulders and put the mouse on the counter, I knew this girl from high school and she held a grudge against me for one thing or another. I'm assuming my name came up on the caller ID? I don't know, my big thing was that I could have been anyone. Anyways, I started buying f/t to spare myself any more rude people. I understand they have a policy, but that doesn't mean you assume that everyone buying a mouse is using it for snake food. Spare yourself the trouble and stop selling mice! Lol.
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The most annoying thing for me is when I buy live from pet stores that sell live feeders and the employees are still rude or judgmental about it. I've had that happen several times.
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Re: Alternate snake food ?
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Originally Posted by 200xth
So you're mad that she figured you would use it for food, which you did?
No, I was mad because she made an assumption about somebody. I would have been equally mad if she said it to anyone else in my presence. I very well could have been buying the mice to keep for pets. I know people who use live mice to scent dead ones more for their snakes (now that I think about it, that's pretty morbid).
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Re: Alternate snake food ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Running Elk
I keep several species of mice as pets. Domestic (larger and longer show bodied mice, different from "fancy" pet store mice, not available in pet stores), spiny, ASF, and deer mice. In the case of domestic mice, I highly disagree; hamsters are bitey, and gerbils are too jumpy to really enjoy handling. Mice are smarter, and colonize well. They have probably the largest genetic variation of any of those rodents (think morphs), which is fascinating to work with. Their largest downfall is thier link with cancer. Rats have the same problem.
Rats are great rodent pets, besides the health concerns. Very smart.
Also, snake people would never get along with rat and mouse keepers. Rat and mouse keepers rarely get along with rat and mouse keepers. I know a lot of amazing rat and mouse people, but it's a largely unfriendly community in my experience, with intense politics (LOLitics), castes, cliques, shunning, and bullying. A lot of "don't give any mice to so-and-so because I don't like her, and if you give your mice to her you're banned from the shows and off of the forums and you'll be shunned". Current drama with the mouse people in the east coast involves on of the "top" people making a fake FB profile in order to spy and see who is talking to who, as some people aren't "supposed to talk to other people." Never seen things like this in the reptile community.
A lot of rat and mouse people secretly or openly have reptiles, and feed all of thier culls to them. That's where all of my culls go.
Interesting, I would think it would be similar types of communities due to the specific animals being widely frowned at and the keepers wanting to be around like minded people. I've heard some in the reptile community are like this, but I haven't actually had much dealings in it besides buying (yet!) so I wouldn't know for sure.
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Re: Alternate snake food ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 200xth
I don't know. I have a feeling if some people sold/gave/traded their baby BP's to someone and that person ended up just feeding them to their kingsnake, some people might get upset.
Even a baby male normal ball python would make an expensive meal for a king snake, considering most do just fine on adult mice for life.
That said... cobras and eastern indigos got to eat too. I know a few people who keep them, if I ever have to cull a baby I'll euth it humanely and it'll get fed off.
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Re: Alternate snake food ?
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Originally Posted by Darkbird
People can be really wierd. I had similar problems years ago. I'm way too honest sometimes, and I would call rabbit breeders looking for feed for my burms. Even drove 15 miles to a lady's farm to be told no when I inquired about something a bit smaller than what she had, since smaller wasn't weaned, and that led to questions. Had a meat breeder that would work with me for a while, but I eventually had to get rid of my burms because of issues with food supply.
I get my pork from a local farmer, usually half a hog at a time, processed (sidebar, farm-cured ham and bacon is incredible compared to the mass-produced store-bought stuff!). He's agreed to freeze the stillborn piglets for my retics and is happy I'll pay for them, they had just been throwing them onto the manure pile.
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Re: Alternate snake food ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daigga
Interesting, I would think it would be similar types of communities due to the specific animals being widely frowned at and the keepers wanting to be around like minded people. I've heard some in the reptile community are like this, but I haven't actually had much dealings in it besides buying (yet!) so I wouldn't know for sure.
Then you'll find this interesting.
Rabbit people are split and at war. HRS and ARBA.
House Rabbit Society is rabbit PETA. Don't breed, don't eat rabbits and boycott places associated with meat rabbits, always spay and nueter, no rabbits for kids, no purebreds, no reptiles, etc. it sucks because they have some incredible information on rabbit care and do advocate some good things as far as rabbit welfare. They are known to call the SPCA on and even steal rabbits from ARBA people. It's so bad that many rabbit breeders are wary to deal with selling rabbits to those outside of the community. This is very very rarely because the conditions are poor, but because of volume of rabbits breeders need to produce show stock. An up-tight, preachy, rude community that scolds people who seek help but are rabbit-ignorant.
ARBA (American Rabbit Breeders Association), A relaxed community who breeds and shows rabbits. A generally nice community, though increasingly wary of outsiders. I've had lots of fun at rabbit conventions and shows. Many of these people have farms, and culls often are eaten, donated to zoos, or sold/given to reptile people. A friend of mine used to donate her culls to the reptile section of her local zoo.
Both make up the rabbit community. It's a civil war. The rabbit forum is litterally split into two parts, with strict rules on not taking your opinions to the other half. Mostly because HRS people are vicious and will hijack and preach anywhere they can. ARBA people will sometimes defend themselves (if not just ignore it) than then a major fight happens.
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Re: Alternate snake food ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyAndMelissa
I generally buy white when they're live anyways. Most people prefer colored mice for pets, so I'm just being nice. Lol. I switched over to f/t.
Some bp's don't imprint on white mice because the color is unnatural. Colored mice and rats are more of a familiar visual attraction for bp's. It's documented in the literature very clearly. Personally, I just wanted the colored mice because they were larger and fatter at the same high price as the white mice. Peace.:gj:
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Re: Alternate snake food ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Albert Clark
Some bp's don't imprint on white mice because the color is unnatural. Colored mice and rats are more of a familiar visual attraction for bp's. It's documented in the literature very clearly. Personally, I just wanted the colored mice because they were larger and fatter at the same high price as the white mice. Peace.:gj:
I suppose that's true. I've never had issues with Monty eating any mouse or rat. She's always been a good eater.
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Re: Alternate snake food ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Running Elk
Then you'll find this interesting.
Rabbit people are split and at war. HRS and ARBA.
House Rabbit Society is rabbit PETA. Don't breed, don't eat rabbits and boycott places associated with meat rabbits, always spay and nueter, no rabbits for kids, no purebreds, no reptiles, etc. it sucks because they have some incredible information on rabbit care and do advocate some good things as far as rabbit welfare. They are known to call the SPCA on and even steal rabbits from ARBA people. It's so bad that many rabbit breeders are wary to deal with selling rabbits to those outside of the community. This is very very rarely because the conditions are poor, but because of volume of rabbits breeders need to produce show stock. An up-tight, preachy, rude community that scolds people who seek help but are rabbit-ignorant.
ARBA (American Rabbit Breeders Association), A relaxed community who breeds and shows rabbits. A generally nice community, though increasingly wary of outsiders. I've had lots of fun at rabbit conventions and shows. Many of these people have farms, and culls often are eaten, donated to zoos, or sold/given to reptile people. A friend of mine used to donate her culls to the reptile section of her local zoo.
Both make up the rabbit community. It's a civil war. The rabbit forum is litterally split into two parts, with strict rules on not taking your opinions to the other half. Mostly because HRS people are vicious and will hijack and preach anywhere they can. ARBA people will sometimes defend themselves (if not just ignore it) than then a major fight happens.
I do find this interesting. Are there that many rabbit rescues that the HRA can reasonable condemn breeding rabbits, even just for pet purposes? I know around this time of year you hear so many people saying you shouldn't buy rabbits or chicks for Easter since many of them get given up for adoption anyway, but I didn't know there was such an abundance of homeless bunnies. I would also have assumed these groups wouldn't interact in the same forums, as it would be much like PETA and the AKC trying to have civil discussions in the same room.
I suppose I know much less about these things than I thought I did, it's all very fascinating.
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Re: Alternate snake food ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daigga
Weird. Chickens are traditionally raised as food animals anyway, so I don't see why a feed store would care about when or by what they get eaten. Feeding it young to a boa or raising it for a family meal doesn't make much of a difference in the end, does it?
Exactly what I was thinking. People eat these chickens............................
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I am not a part of the "show" rat community, but I can tell you from what I've read on forums and FB groups, there are some serious nutters there. I think most are young (teenagers or early college age) and extremely zealous in their beliefs about breeding being bad.
I see so many threads bemoaning the horrible conditions of rats from petstores, how horrible feeder breeders are, and how even pet backyard breeders are bad... And then in the same breath, they will complain about how hard it is to find good pet rats where they live. Whenever anyone asks about purchasing a rat from a store the immediate answer is "adopt from a rescue! or go to a "good" show breeder!. I've even read comments shaming people for buying from anyone but a rescue and they treat anyone who considers breeding like a pariah. One forum I'm on forbids discussing intentional breeding.
Sorry for the off-topic rant... These people are nuts though.
Back to the original topic: Yes, it's bad that she would treat a customer that way, however, I can see it being part of their policy to ask when people buy mice, if they are to be pets or not. That said, how could you afford to pay those prices for mice?! At my store, it's like $8 for a "fancy" pet mouse.
About petco: I once talked to the animal care manager there and adopted some rat pups from them that had been abandoned at the store. She said that she'd get SO mad when the employees sold the dumbo rats as feeders because those were the only rats that people would actually buy as pets. She actually likes rats and basically said that her manager did everything he could to make sure they would all sell as feeders instead of anyone taking them as pets. I can understand them wanting to sell only the albino or solids as feeders since the pieds are more likely to go as pets.
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Re: Pet Store Feeders and Pet policy...yet another spinoff
Quote:
Originally Posted by 200xth
I don't know. I have a feeling if some people sold/gave/traded their baby BP's to someone and that person ended up just feeding them to their kingsnake, some people might get upset.
Actually this has been happening for a long time. Not all of those '100 lot' sales of captive hatched ball pythons out of Africa are going to breeders or pet stores. People who keep cobras buy them too.
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Re: Pet Store Feeders and Pet policy...yet another spinoff
Quote:
Originally Posted by artgecko
I am not a part of the "show" rat community, but I can tell you from what I've read on forums and FB groups, there are some serious nutters there. I think most are young (teenagers or early college age) and extremely zealous in their beliefs about breeding being bad.
I see so many threads bemoaning the horrible conditions of rats from petstores, how horrible feeder breeders are, and how even pet backyard breeders are bad... And then in the same breath, they will complain about how hard it is to find good pet rats where they live. Whenever anyone asks about purchasing a rat from a store the immediate answer is "adopt from a rescue! or go to a "good" show breeder!. I've even read comments shaming people for buying from anyone but a rescue and they treat anyone who considers breeding like a pariah. One forum I'm on forbids discussing intentional breeding.
Sorry for the off-topic rant... These people are nuts though.
Back to the original topic: Yes, it's bad that she would treat a customer that way, however, I can see it being part of their policy to ask when people buy mice, if they are to be pets or not. That said, how could you afford to pay those prices for mice?! At my store, it's like $8 for a "fancy" pet mouse.
About petco: I once talked to the animal care manager there and adopted some rat pups from them that had been abandoned at the store. She said that she'd get SO mad when the employees sold the dumbo rats as feeders because those were the only rats that people would actually buy as pets. She actually likes rats and basically said that her manager did everything he could to make sure they would all sell as feeders instead of anyone taking them as pets. I can understand them wanting to sell only the albino or solids as feeders since the pieds are more likely to go as pets.
The whole "no breeding ever" thing is weird to me. Like, with dogs very few people (and all of those considered nuts) frown at breeding purebred dogs. It's obviously different when people intentionally breed mutts (this designer dog craze is so stupid, I will never understand why you pay purebred and papered prices for a mix) or when they don't spay/neuter and accidently produce puppies.
For pets tores selling mice, I've found that a lot of the time you can pick out the ones that aren't going to like you buying mice to feed. One of the petcos near me doesn't even have a live reptile section and every last small animal tank had a little blue sticker on the bottom corner proclaiming that feeding live to snakes was a health risk and to ask a store associate about frozen alternatives. Needless to say, I drove the extra few miles to the next store instead of asking for one of the mice anyway.
Mostly I haven't gotten attitudes at the other petcos, and they mostly just ask "what are you feeding?" Instead of "is this a feeder?". Seeing the attitudes towards the mice and rats from the people I've seen there looking, it seems like feeders just sell better than pets. The stores I usually go to also have an excellent reptile section, so that also kind of explains it some. there's also the occasional store that will sell you other "problem" rodents at a discount if they know you just need a feeder. "Oh you're feeding a python? This gerbil here is mean and has been returned 3 times, we'll take 75% off if you take him?"
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Re: Alternate snake food ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Running Elk
Then you'll find this interesting.
Rabbit people are split and at war. HRS and ARBA.
House Rabbit Society is rabbit PETA. Don't breed, don't eat rabbits and boycott places associated with meat rabbits, always spay and nueter, no rabbits for kids, no purebreds, no reptiles, etc. it sucks because they have some incredible information on rabbit care and do advocate some good things as far as rabbit welfare. They are known to call the SPCA on and even steal rabbits from ARBA people. It's so bad that many rabbit breeders are wary to deal with selling rabbits to those outside of the community. This is very very rarely because the conditions are poor, but because of volume of rabbits breeders need to produce show stock. An up-tight, preachy, rude community that scolds people who seek help but are rabbit-ignorant.
ARBA (American Rabbit Breeders Association), A relaxed community who breeds and shows rabbits. A generally nice community, though increasingly wary of outsiders. I've had lots of fun at rabbit conventions and shows. Many of these people have farms, and culls often are eaten, donated to zoos, or sold/given to reptile people. A friend of mine used to donate her culls to the reptile section of her local zoo.
Both make up the rabbit community. It's a civil war. The rabbit forum is litterally split into two parts, with strict rules on not taking your opinions to the other half. Mostly because HRS people are vicious and will hijack and preach anywhere they can. ARBA people will sometimes defend themselves (if not just ignore it) than then a major fight happens.
Well this is news to me. Doesn't surprise me though. We were getting into show rabbits for a bit, but my daughter and friend lost interest so I only just barely got started in it. Then they thought about meat rabbits, then they gave up, lol. At the time I didn't have anything that would take a larger rabbit, so I stopped breeding, since I couldn't break even selling them around here. Wish it had been as easy to find breeders back when I had burms. I recently get another burm for a pet, so being able to breed my own will come in handy. Too bad there are so many judgmental people in the world.
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Wow, I live in the Chicago area. All the petco's around me are more then happy to sell you as many feeders as you need. If they do ask what it's for, it's usally because they're courius and fascinated about snakes. Or have one. Met some decent people that way. But petsmart has a no live feeder policy. Even though on occasion, they'll sell you one.
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Re: Pet Store Feeders and Pet policy...yet another spinoff
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkS
Actually this has been happening for a long time. Not all of those '100 lot' sales of captive hatched ball pythons out of Africa are going to breeders or pet stores. People who keep cobras buy them too.
Sure. I realize that.
The point was more that some people get annoyed or angry when someone selling a rat or mouse wants it to end up as a pet rather than as food, like the person selling has no right to want their animal to be valued as someone's pet. "It's my rat I'll do what I want", but I'm sure some of those same people would be unhappy if they themselves were selling their cute little BP hatchlings as pets or future breeders and someone just bought one and tossed it in the cobra tank.
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My Dad grew up on a farm. My grandpa raised chickens and hogs and crops. One time when one of their sows had a litter there was a runt in the group. Most of the time runts were euthanized as they rarely survived on their own. This time, for some reason, Grandpa kept the runt and took it into the house where they kept it warm and bottle fed it until it was stronger. After caring for it and saving it's life the family became kind of bonded to this little pig so they named it Orville and kept it as a pet. Orville had the run of the farm and played with my Dad and hung out around the family and their other pets. Orville prefered the company of people over other pigs. Orville lived to a ripe old age with a loving family while his brothers and sisters were slaughtered, butchered, smoked and eaten while still young.
I guess my point to this is that we as individuals decide what is and what is not a pet, it is NOT dependent on species but how we as people interact with a particular animal. Pets are not born, pets are created by how we feel and become emotionally attached to an individual animal.
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Re: Pet Store Feeders and Pet policy...yet another spinoff
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkS
I guess my point to this is that we as individuals decide what is and what is not a pet, it is NOT dependent on species but how we as people interact with a particular animal. Pets are not born, pets are created by how we feel and become emotionally attached to an individual animal.
The warm fuzzies must be flying this morning. I couldn't possibly agree more. Thank you.[/THREAD]
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Re: Pet Store Feeders and Pet policy...yet another spinoff
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkS
My Dad grew up on a farm. My grandpa raised chickens and hogs and crops. One time when one of their sows had a litter there was a runt in the group. Most of the time runts were euthanized as they rarely survived on their own. This time, for some reason, Grandpa kept the runt and took it into the house where they kept it warm and bottle fed it until it was stronger. After caring for it and saving it's life the family became kind of bonded to this little pig so they named it Orville and kept it as a pet. Orville had the run of the farm and played with my Dad and hung out around the family and their other pets. Orville prefered the company of people over other pigs. Orville lived to a ripe old age with a loving family while his brothers and sisters were slaughtered, butchered, smoked and eaten while still young.
I guess my point to this is that we as individuals decide what is and what is not a pet, it is NOT dependent on species but how we as people interact with a particular animal. Pets are not born, pets are created by how we feel and become emotionally attached to an individual animal.
Right. I don't disagree with that either. Maybe I'm just not communicating the point of my post well. It has nothing to do with how animals are actually used or whether or not it's okay to feed certain animals to each other.
It's a simple matter of respect.
If you raise rats and sell them as feeders, you don't care that I buy them and drop them in my enclosures. Someone feeding their snakes can buy from you and everyone is happy.
If I raise rats, want them to be kept as pets, and don't want to sell to people who are simply going to feed them to snakes, I don't understand why people get annoyed by this, or lie to cover up what they are doing. It's a basic matter of simple respect. Find another source that doesn't care.
I personally don't care if BP's are fed to cobras, nor do I care that mice are fed to snakes (obviously). I do find it a bit disrespectful to lie about the use of the animal when buying it from someone who clearly cares how it is used. They don't have the right to tell the buyer how to use it, but if someone raises rats who likes them and wants their babies to go to someone who will keep it as a pet rather than a food source, I don't understand why those simple wishes can't just be respected and another food source found.
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Re: Pet Store Feeders and Pet policy...yet another spinoff
Quote:
Originally Posted by 200xth
Maybe I'm just not communicating the point of my post well. It has nothing to do with how animals are actually used or whether or not it's okay to feed certain animals to each other.
It's a simple matter of respect.
I feel like you're both saying the same thing. What's not being communicated well? :confusd:
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fair enough, and I agree for the most part. However I just get annoyed by people telling me what I can or can not do with MY animal, and if I buy an animal it's MINE. Of course you also have the right not to sell it to me, but if you want to maintain control over what happens to it, then why are you selling it in the first place?
(and when I say 'you' I don't mean you in particular, 'you' meaning the seller)
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Re: Pet Store Feeders and Pet policy...yet another spinoff
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkS
fair enough, and I agree for the most part. However I just get annoyed by people telling me what I can or can not do with MY animal, and if I buy an animal it's MINE. Of course you also have the right not to sell it to me, but if you want to maintain control over what happens to it, then why are you selling it in the first place?
(and when I say 'you' I don't mean you in particular, 'you' meaning the seller)
I find it hard to believe that someone who cares about the animals they produce would not care about the well-being of their animals after they are sold. It's not about maintaining control - it's about finding a good home for an animal that you've put so much time, energy, and (hopefully) love into - not to mention money. Just because it's for sale doesn't mean that you no longer want the best for it.
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I think we may be getting off point here. Seems the OP was complain just about the attitude of the salesperson involved, and I can fully understand that. I have no problem with a breeder or store that doesn't want to sell whatever animal as food, and I respect the right of a seller to refuse to sell to someone. But I do take issue with the people who want to treat you like dirt in the process. And not that it matters, but if a person came to me and wanted one of the balls I had produced as a feeder, I'd be ok with it. They just have to pay for it like anyone else.
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Re: Pet Store Feeders and Pet policy...yet another spinoff
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Alan
I find it hard to believe that someone who cares about the animals they produce would not care about the well-being of their animals after they are sold. It's not about maintaining control - it's about finding a good home for an animal that you've put so much time, energy, and (hopefully) love into - not to mention money. Just because it's for sale doesn't mean that you no longer want the best for it.
This is very true. Again talking about petco, but they make you sign a waiver for every animal that says you agree to treat that animal humanely. For live feeding practices, we know this means I'm not going to torture the mouse or rat before dropping it in with my snake, I'm going to treat it with humane respect up too the point that my snake swallows it down. There are some people that think it's acceptable practice to stun their feeders before giving it to the snake, which I find to be tremendously inhumane and dangerous on top of everything. Things like that are a clear violation of the contract you bought the feeder under and if the store knew you meant to do something like that than they would be within rights to refuse the sale.
We all have to remember that sellers have rights just the same as buyers and refusing to sell animals to snake keepers is just something that comes with the territory of keeping snakes and won't be going away any time soon.
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