Question about Spider Ball Pythons

Since I'm looking into breeding bp, I've been looking around at different morphs to start off with.
Ive noticed that I loved everything with spider in it. But I was concerned about their "neurological problems". Does everything that has the spider gene in it have issues(bumble bees, lesser bees, spinners,ect), or is it just the "regular spider" morph?

Any help appreciated.

riley

Uhm no it is not only the normal spider but dont let that stop you! When you gonna buy a morph with spider just ask if you can hold it for a sec, you'll notice fast enough if the wobble is a real bad one or just a minor close to no wobble, if it is just a small wobble your spider wont have any trouble.

"Head Wobble" is the issue you are referring to. Its a genetic issue that all spiders and spider morphs carry.

As stated before some have it really bad, its to the point where it looks like they've had too much caffeine and are shaking and corkscrewing. On the other hand, some may have such a little case of it that it really isn't a big deal.

Mine for instance I call her my speeeecial snake, because she has a moderate case of it, when she's sitting down with her head up you can see it wobble, and when you pick her up she does corkscrew, but its not bad, and when she was eating, (stopped in May) was pounding a rat every 5-7 days.

My advice? Don't let the head wobble discourage you from getting into the beautiful morph and morph combos that spiders can make. I would find a good reputable breeder and see what they have to offer.

Hope this helps!!

Does the head wobble occer the same in bumble bees, lesser bees, spinners, ect, or is it more extreme in regular spiders? I want something that has it less noticeable since my dad would say "I'm messing too much with genetics".

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Originally Posted by Western hognose

Does the head wobble occer the same in bumble bees, lesser bees, spinners, ect, or is it more extreme in regular spiders? I want something that has it less noticeable since my dad would say "I'm messing too much with genetics".

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It happens with every morph that has the spider gene. My bumblebee is a wobbler too. You probably won't be able to choose a snake that has less of a wobble since it varies so much from snake to snake. Some have a very slight wobble while others have a much more noticeable one. Also as they age the wobble can get worse if it wasn't as bad or can get better. It just varies a lot. I love my bumblebee and his silly wobble, it gives him his goofy personality [emoji4] most wobbles are never bad enough to impair the snakes the quality of living.


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It doesn't matter how many morphs you add, the wobble is the same. Some spiders show it less than others. If you find it to be an issue, I suggest you be aware of other morphs that also have issues http://www.owalreptiles.com/issues.php

I used to have a spider, and all spiders, or morphs of spiders will have the wobble to some extent, and anyone who tells you different doesn't know what they are talking about, because there are those who will tell you their spiders have no wobble. It's baloney. The good thing about spiders is it doesn't affect their ability to breed, and they all eat like champs :gj:

Like others have stated all spider and spider morphs have it to an extent. With some of my spider combos I only notice it when the snake is feeding. For others it can be noticed all the time. It comes down to the individual snake in question as to the extent that the wobble will be displayed. But even with the wobble, all my spiders and spider combos eat great and those of size have bred well regardless. So don't let it discourage you from working with this great morph. :)

I was told that if I incubate at a lower temperature around 86-87 it will reduce the wobble where you will never notice it. Is that true???

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Originally Posted by Western hognose

I was told that if I incubate at a lower temperature around 86-87 it will reduce the wobble where you will never notice it. Is that true???

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Nope

Yeah, didn't think so.

To clear things up, not all lines of spiders have wooble. Most do but not all. My spider line does not wooble.

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Originally Posted by jldetres

To clear things up, not all lines of spiders have wooble. Most do but not all. My spider line does not wooble.

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All spiders are from the same line.

I have a spider who just turned a year, he was my first morph and I told the breeder that and he didn't warn me about the wobble. When I tried looking up the weird behavior I was in tears because I though he was going to die. But it turns out he just has an extreme wobble problem. I love him to death and he's the sweetest thing. He does need some assistance feeding sometimes but I've been told that handling them and keeping them active will help them learn to compensate for the movements. It has helped with mine a bit. I was a bit worried about breeding him but I guess I'll never know if he can do if unless I try. :)

Lol that list is helpful. My butter has oddly huge eyes. That's usually not a problem, it's just a visual abnormality right?

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Originally Posted by jldetres

To clear things up, not all lines of spiders have wooble. Most do but not all. My spider line does not wooble.

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This is non sense. There is no such thing as a "line" without the wobble. It cannot be selectively bred out.

This is because the mechanism during embryonic development that inhibits the distribution of pigment (causing the spider pattern) is disrupted or blocked through the nervous system in the spinal cord. I dont really have the techincal expertise to explain it well, but ive found some very informative scientific resources online on the subject.

The point being, a mutated gene that reduces pattern by blocking neurological processes during development will always have other neurological side effects. You cant separate the two out, because they are both caused by the same mutated gene having the same effect during development.

Sent from my SM-G730V using Tapatalk 2

Just got my new spider delivered figured a pic before some qt time.

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...12dd829219.jpg

[emoji106]

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Originally Posted by Western hognose

Since I'm looking into breeding bp, I've been looking around at different morphs to start off with.
Ive noticed that I loved everything with spider in it. But I was concerned about their "neurological problems". Does everything that has the spider gene in it have issues(bumble bees, lesser bees, spinners,ect), or is it just the "regular spider" morph?

Any help appreciated.

riley

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Just added my second spider complex ball to my collection a male mojo spider http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...1de11d40ea.jpg

I have an adult spider and a bee. I've yet to see any signs of my spider wobbling but as for the bee, she wobbles during feeding, change of environment etc. now when it comes to feeding the bee corkscrews and wobbles big time. Having said that she is one of the best feeders that I own, never misses a meal. I would not feed her live or any that wobble because they seem to have very bad judgement in the strike but aside from that I find them the most unique type of snake and certainly a conversation piece when others see her for the first time during a wobbling session.

I love the spider look but I won't ever work with them. It's like purposefully giving your kids a known disease. Some show little to no wobble but why chance it in their offspring. If was a reputable breeder I don't think a bad wobble snake should ever be sold. So what do you do with the bad cases? I'd rather just stay away

*if I was a reputable*

Even bad cases can be bred its not something that can be selectively bred out you can get some with almost none to some with horrible wobble in the same clutch. Its not something to be feared its like a learning disability it dont make them any less valuable as breeders at all. Like 6-7 yrs ago ppl were euthanizing ones with bad wobble till they finally realized that it really doesn't effect their quality of life. So dont fear the wobble learn to love it and then enjoy the occasional show you get when they go duh on you.

My spinner girl doesn't wobble much and the spider gene certainly doesn't cause her issues with eating or living a normal life. She just likes to view the world differently from my other snakes.
http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/r...psbc234334.jpg

http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps252897ae.jpg

I'm glad I found this thread. I was planning to buy a spider but after seeing videos it seems almost cruel that they are bred with that gene. Of course that is my own opinion and I am happy for those that own spiders. But I think I'll pick a different morph.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

My spinner girl doesn't wobble much and the spider gene certainly doesn't cause her issues with eating or living a normal life. She just likes to view the world differently from my other snakes.
http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/r...psbc234334.jpg

http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps252897ae.jpg

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Off topic but...Those pictures of your spinner are adorable.

My spider I have at least I can't see a wobble. So I guess she's a good case. My boyfriends bee I can only tell when he is feeding how bad his wobble is.

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...4d90689cdb.jpg
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...c5ee276f51.jpg

Here's a baby that Mr. Bee fathered.

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...6306e54a67.jpg



Sent from iPhone 5 using tapatalk :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bcr229

My spinner girl doesn't wobble much and the spider gene certainly doesn't cause her issues with eating or living a normal life. She just likes to view the world differently from my other snakes.
http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/r...psbc234334.jpg

http://i477.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps252897ae.jpg

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She's adorable. Lol she's makes her bowl a bed. I love spinners!


Sent from iPhone 5 using tapatalk :)

Spiders are some of the funniest snakes out there. The wobble can be as minor as a tilt to the head or as major as a the corkscrewing. Either way they are not any harder or easier to maintain than any other ball python. I have 2. My spider you barley notice anything with my sugar spider cruises around looking like she is drunk most of the time.

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I was told that if I incubate at a lower temperature around 86-87 it will reduce the wobble where you will never notice it. Is that true???

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Only because the egg might not hatch and then you wouldnt be able to notice the wobble. heh.

The wobble isn't really a static thing though either, watching my friends spiders grown up I've seen it come and go. Maybe it has nothing to do with age just the animal on that day I saw them was better or worse but I don't think that how they act for a couple of minutes in your hands is going to be a good indicator of their wobble throughout their lives. Just know its a concern, if it does concern you, going into the deal.

As was already said my buddies eat just fine. So it doesn't seem to bother them all that much.

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Originally Posted by Jessimica

I'm glad I found this thread. I was planning to buy a spider but after seeing videos it seems almost cruel that they are bred with that gene. Of course that is my own opinion and I am happy for those that own spiders. But I think I'll pick a different morph.

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It's not cruel at all. It's no different than people who continue to breed dogs with known genetic health issues. German Shepherds have known hip problems. Pugs have serious sinus issues. Boxers get tumors. It's no different. My spider lives a completely normal life, she's just a little weird.

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...8a5551510e.jpg
Mine did the bad wobble dance for a while after I first got him. His is pretty terrible but I'm sure there were worse ones out there that still were able to live a perfectly normal life.

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Originally Posted by kitn

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...8a5551510e.jpg
Mine did the bad wobble dance for a while after I first got him. His is pretty terrible but I'm sure there were worse ones out there that still were able to live a perfectly normal life.

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This picture is a perfect example of how funny spiders are. My girl does this occasionally too, but she's only real wobbly during feeding time mostly. They're so quirky, I couldn't imagine not having a spider in my home.