Christmas Boa Heat Concerns

I was given a CA BCI for christmas. She's a baby produced from an 8ft het t+ mom and a 5ft t+ dad. Both parents came from Kahl. Supposed to be a nic but doubting that due to mom's size. She will be here Tuesday and is 24-30" and het t+. My fiance and I had plans to get a BCI in March AFTER we set everything up but we cannot get ahold of the breeder to cancel. She will be going in a 75 gallon tank (48x18) with 2ft of 11in (40watts) heat tape connected to a hydrofarm thermostat. The temp in the room is around 70F. Heat tape is coming in the box with her. The top on the tank will be 1/2" medium density fiberboard siliconed to the rim with air holes and a lid on hinges along with two masterlocks. Substrate - Paper towel. Using an appropriate sized tupperware for water. The thermostat will be set to 92F. I am flat broke until February (she will be fed, don't worry) and can't afford another heat source until then. Will a month on only heat tape be too long? I can set the space heater up to be pointed at the tank to maybe help heat it. I'll have a dome for a 75 watt I just don't have a bulb or screen to set it on/cover it with. I can get another foot of heat tape if it will help but that's really all I can do right now. Any and all advice is appreciated. Giving her out on CL is not an option and if she goes home with the person that purchased her, she will be in an unheated 10 gallon for life. I'm trying to do what I can to make it through this month until our paychecks are back on track in February.

Thank you,
Flint

I think between the space heater and using an appropriate-sized hide on the warm side, your new addition will be ok until you can get a CHE or heat lamp set up.

A cheap people's heating pad stays at 90 degrees all the time at the "#1" setting.
I have several of them for emergencies and travel.
Make sure you get one that does not have an "auto-off" feature.

I don't have any money, Salamander. I also don't understand why I would need a human heating pad when I have heat tape....

so happy to see you on here!

where are you located Ill send you stuff you need. no animal deserve to suffer

Good to see you, too, Lexi!
I'm in Central Louisiana but I have everything covered but ambient heat.

what's the temp now

I would personally ditch the tank and put her in a sterilite tub and use the heat tape with that. It will hold in the heat much better than a glass tank. Get 32 qt tub and she'll be fine in that for a good 6 months before she outgrows it. You can get a 32 qt sterilite for less than $10 at Walmart or Meijer. PLUS, in a tub, you'll only need to have the t-stat set to 88-90 and it'll make the perfect hotspot and raise the ambient temps enough in the tub. Tubs hold heat much better than glass.

You don't need lights, heat bulbs, or anything of that sort - those will only suck whatever humidity you have right on out of whatever enclosure you use. Tanks frankly suck for most snakes. Get the Sterilite. You'll be very pleasantly surprised. If you want a display enclosure, you can set one up later when you're more financially able.

So. You can do what you need to do for your snake for about $10. Get the Sterilite, use the heat tape and the t-stat, and you're good to go for at least 6 months. If you don't have $10, borrow it. I'm not trying to sound mean or insensitive, but $10 is not a lot of money. Collect some pop cans and turn them in if necessary. Just trying to offer you some very reasonable suggestions. With the tub, you don't have to worry about the ambient heat - it'll take care of itself. :gj:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Flint

I don't have any money, Salamander. I also don't understand why I would need a human heating pad when I have heat tape....

---

You were inquiring about extra heat and I offered a really cheap solution.

Sorry.

The temp in the room stays around 70 (no insulation and this is what we achieve with the space heater on max) but the heattape is coming in the same box with her so I don't know the temp.

I have a 18 gallon sterilite tote I could use if I could find a way to secure the lid without destroying the tote. Where would I put air holes, around the top? I was told that heat tape would melt through plastic totes, though. I may have $15 left after I go get our wedding license and can probably get the 32qt if so. I can destroy the one I purchase as needed. What about those underbed totes? Or are those too shallow and too hard to heat the entire thing?

I apologize, Salamander, I didn't mean to come off as rude. I'm looking for ambient heat, I have belly heat covered.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Flint

The temp in the room stays around 70 (no insulation and this is what we achieve with the space heater on max) but the heattape is coming in the same box with her so I don't know the temp.

I have a 18 gallon sterilite tote I could use if I could find a way to secure the lid without destroying the tote. Where would I put air holes, around the top? I was told that heat tape would melt through plastic totes, though. I may have $15 left after I go get our wedding license and can probably get the 32qt if so. I can destroy the one I purchase as needed. What about those underbed totes? Or are those too shallow and too hard to heat the entire thing?

I apologize, Salamander, I didn't mean to come off as rude. I'm looking for ambient heat, I have belly heat covered.

---

Do you have a temp controller for your flex watt? on the side put 3. I used a drill but went at a slow speed. the tape need air to breath. You just need to bump it up around 78-79 the room air

I have a hydrofarm. On the side put three what? Holes? And I can't bump up the air in the room, we don't have central and the only window unit is in our bedroom where we keep it 60-65 at night.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Flint

I have a hydrofarm. On the side put three what? Holes? And I can't bump up the air in the room, we don't have central and the only window unit is in our bedroom where we keep it 60-65 at night.

---

yes holes. Well you will have to sacrifice having your room warmer

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Evenstar

I would personally ditch the tank and put her in a sterilite tub and use the heat tape with that. It will hold in the heat much better than a glass tank. Get 32 qt tub and she'll be fine in that for a good 6 months before she outgrows it. You can get a 32 qt sterilite for less than $10 at Walmart or Meijer. PLUS, in a tub, you'll only need to have the t-stat set to 88-90 and it'll make the perfect hotspot and raise the ambient temps enough in the tub. Tubs hold heat much better than glass.

You don't need lights, heat bulbs, or anything of that sort - those will only suck whatever humidity you have right on out of whatever enclosure you use. Tanks frankly suck for most snakes. Get the Sterilite. You'll be very pleasantly surprised. If you want a display enclosure, you can set one up later when you're more financially able.

So. You can do what you need to do for your snake for about $10. Get the Sterilite, use the heat tape and the t-stat, and you're good to go for at least 6 months. If you don't have $10, borrow it. I'm not trying to sound mean or insensitive, but $10 is not a lot of money. Collect some pop cans and turn them in if necessary. Just trying to offer you some very reasonable suggestions. With the tub, you don't have to worry about the ambient heat - it'll take care of itself. :gj:

---

Best advice you'll get right now is the quote above.

Whoa,,, you have a lot going on right now. I am a bit concerned about the breeder not being available. Is your money already in hand there? I'm also skeptical you are actually getting a CA BCI with that 8 FT Dam and even a 5 Ft sire. I'm not saying impossible, but a bit odd for the CA boas to be that large. It sounds like you agree.

Usually a good breeder will contact you a day or 2 before they send you the animal to make sure you are all ready.

The post says "yesterday" on the top, so do you mean next week Tuesday? Or did it show up yesterday the 31st ?

I think your ambient room temp of 70 is pretty good especially this time of year and IF the heat tape they are sending works you'll be able to do just fine.

I have 1 glass tank and I agree with Kali, they pretty much suck unless you want to spend $$ to make them work which I did and it works, even still, I will eventually get our Royal into our boa's Pro-Line and get a bigger one for the boa.

Keep us posted and good luck!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Flint

The temp in the room stays around 70 (no insulation and this is what we achieve with the space heater on max) but the heattape is coming in the same box with her so I don't know the temp.

I have a 18 gallon sterilite tote I could use if I could find a way to secure the lid without destroying the tote. Where would I put air holes, around the top? I was told that heat tape would melt through plastic totes, though. I may have $15 left after I go get our wedding license and can probably get the 32qt if so. I can destroy the one I purchase as needed. What about those underbed totes? Or are those too shallow and too hard to heat the entire thing?

I apologize, Salamander, I didn't mean to come off as rude. I'm looking for ambient heat, I have belly heat covered.

---

70-ish room temp is fine for a tub appropriately heated with flexwatt on the thermostat. The Hydrofarm is fine. If the flexwatt is set for 90, it will raise the ambient air in the tub enough to be comfortable for your snake - just place the tub away from drafts.

If the flexwatt is controlled with a t-stat, it will NOT melt the plastic. Rack systems are tubs on flexwatt controlled with a t-stat.

How many holes you punch into it depends on the humidity. Start with 3-4 on both the long sides and add more if needed.

18 gallons sounds big. We measure the tub sizes in quarts. You'd be best off buying a 32 QUART tub. You won't destroy the tub other then punching in the air holes. I don't like the underbed tubs - they are too flat and the lids are not secure in the middle. The lid will snap on securely enough for a baby boa on a 32 qt tub. There is a reason specific tubs are recommended over others and tubs in general over other methods.

Quote:

---

I am a bit concerned about the breeder not being available. Is your money already in hand there? I'm also skeptical you are actually getting a CA BCI with that 8 FT Dam and even a 5 Ft sire. I'm not saying impossible, but a bit odd for the CA boas to be that large. It sounds like you agree.

Usually a good breeder will contact you a day or 2 before they send you the animal to make sure you are all ready

---

I also agree 100% with Gio on this....

The shipping date has changed to her being delivered tomorrow.. I don't know if it's a glitch or if she'll really be coming tomorrow but I'll be outside waiting come 9AM. Shipped animals usually come around 12 here but I like to be out there early just in case.

What's an appropriate size hole? The size of a nail? That's what I'll be heating up to punch the holes. How humid should it be in the tub? I was going to put her on paper towels, will being on damp paper towels hurt her? I'll definately get a 32 quart tub, I was just curious because of the additional space an underbed tub would provide.

I'm not really sure what she is. As I said, she was labeled as a CA, her parents were purchased from Kahl and supposed to be Nics but Nics don't get that big... The money is already in hand as far as I'm aware (I don't have the order recipets or anything seeing as I didn't order her). I'm starting to wonder if this is some kid breeding petshop boas in his bedroom.... The website is no longer up and everything about this has been so sketchy. I'll honestly be mildly surprised if she even arrives at this point.. I'm really not liking the whole situation. I just hope she's okay.

What was the web site?

I'll ask Rocky(my friend). I had it written down but the cat seems to have found a better use for it somewhere else. I hate having a Bengal sometimes. :stupidme:

Bengals have been known to go after snakes!! And as you know, they can open just about anything. Make sure that tub is secure!!

Nail sized holes are fine. So long as the snake can't put it's nose through it. If the holes are smaller, you'd simply punch more.

I hope it all works out. If she does arrive safe and sound, please post pictures! And let us know either way what happens..... :please:

She's a mix. Apparently Rocky has just been awoken to banging on his door and a delivery guy in his face (safe to say he's not happy). I guess they shipped to the billing address rather than the shipping address.... Upon opening the box, he didn't find the snake he ordered or the heat tape, but two Common hatchlings - one labeled male and one labeled female.. Great. He ran to walmart and picked up a few heat packs because he can't bring them over until Tuesday. They are alive, though. I really wish he could send photos, I want to see them. Now I have a whole new issue, though.

Can two hatchlings live in a 32qt for 1-2 months if I fill it to the brim with hides? He ordered some heat tape (3ft of 12") from reptilebasics. If I get two 32qt bins, I don't think I can get enough of both of them on the 3ft of tape to keep them warm. I told him to give them lukewarm baths (it's 30F out right now) to get them a little water and warmed up a bit. I was stressed about one snake, now there are two. Ugh.

I swear, I'm going to go into labor early if this keeps up.:frustrate

I got two 34qt (It was the closest I could find to 32qt) sterilite tubs. They will both fit on the heat pad just fine, I was expecting different dimensions. I also got two large plastic dog food bowls at the dollar store to use on the cool side as a water dish. They should be plenty large enough for the snakes to use until they outgrow these tubs. What should I use as hides on the warm side? Do they need a hide on the cool side as well? (I imagine they will curl up in the corner behind the water bowl)

These are the exact tubs I got - http://www.walmart.com/ip/Sterilite-...-of-6/15539793

These are the exact bowls I got - http://www.dollartree.com/household/...4607/index.pro

thought you where using flex watt not heat pad

I never said I was using a heat pad?

Holy cow I would be livid at that seller! I wonder if he sent your snake and heat tape to someone who ordered the two normals you received?

When you said "Wal-Mart heat packs", did you mean the hand warmers? Because they can get way too hot and burn your snake. The more access to oxygen they have the hotter they run. If that's all that's available, wrap them in a hand towel or t-shirt or something so those babies can't touch it directly.

They do need hides. Don't laugh - my home-based business does a lot of shipping so I have stacks of USPS flat-rate boxes sitting around. The small flat-rate boxes work nicely as disposable hides, and they're free at the post office. Just don't use tape on them! I completely rip off the piece with the sticky adhesive (no tape in the tub!), the piece it would normally stick to extends the "roof", and I cut a hole in the larger flat side that sits on the heat so the snake isn't blocked from the warmth.

The snakes are still in their deli cups in the box with styro. The heatpack was wrapped in newspaper and put in there with them, just like if they were being shipped again. The seller has dissappeared off of the face of the planet. If anything, these two snakes are worth more than the one that was ordered (she was only $60) so, while I'm upset that the snake that was ordered wasn't recieved and that we recieved two snakes, I am slightly pleasantly surprised. We'll see what the fiance has to say about that Tuesday, I was specifically told I was only allowed to get one. Is there a reason you don't use the adhesive in the cage?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Flint

The seller has dissappeared off of the face of the planet.

---

I am so not surprised. :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

If anything, these two snakes are worth more than the one that was ordered (she was only $60) so, while I'm upset that the snake that was ordered wasn't recieved and that we recieved two snakes, I am slightly pleasantly surprised.

---

I will pray that they are healthy - one vet visit for an RI could change that quickly. In the meantime the two new ones need to be kept well away from your other snakes. Given the seller's shadiness I would quarantine them at your fiance's house for 4-6 months, or does he also have snakes of his own?

Quote:

---

We'll see what the fiance has to say about that Tuesday, I was specifically told I was only allowed to get one.

---

Boas are like Pringles, there is no way to stop at one. :D

Quote:

---

Is there a reason you don't use the adhesive in the cage?

---

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...LL-caresheets!

I hope they are healthy, too, no knowledgeable reptile vets around here. /: My fiance and I live together and these are our only snakes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Flint

I got two 34qt (It was the closest I could find to 32qt) sterilite tubs. They will both fit on the heat pad just fine,

---

above

I was referring to the tape, I apologize.

1. Those tubs will be fine - perfect in fact.

2. Flexwatt or heat pad, doesn't matter. They do the same thing so long as either one it on a t-stat.

3. I am floored, shocked, appalled with this seller. There is NO EXCUSE to not send the snake that was ordered without some kind of explanation BEFORE it is shipped. Shipping 2 snakes does NOT make up for that. You really need to post this person's name so we know who to stay away from.

4. I hope your babies are healthy!!

5. Never ever under any circumstances, EVER, use tape or any adhesive inside your snake's enclosure. Once they get stuck on it, they can't get off. If you try to pull it off, you'll pull off scales and skin. There are gruesome pictures here if you find the right threads.

6. Good luck with everything! Ask away with any other questions!

nobody said they did anything different. Just a simple question

Wow, this sounds like a train wreck! I hope you can give these little guys a fighting chance. That seller is the snake equivalent of a dog backyard breeder!

You've gotta do the best you can and don't forget about them with the new baby coming and the wedding and all the external factors.

At some point you WILL need to spend some money on quality setups, and I don't recommend keeping the male and female together for long.

Certainly don't try to breed them down the road.

Keep your chin up and try to enjoy them. I wish they were older and established eaters but with a lame breeder there is no way to tell. This could get tricky if all doesn't go just right.

My email has been hacked as well as my friend's. I'm almost positive this person has deleted all ways we would have to contact them or get access to names and such. I wanted to post on the BOI but I don't have the name/website and now no longer the email. Both Rocky and I are very fortunate that he still has all but what he paid for in his bank account and these snakes arrived alive. Hopefully this experience teaches him NOT to gift animals, even though I know he was just trying to do something nice, I would have preferred he approached me about it first and I could see if he'd order the snake after the enclosure was set up.

As far as the backyard breeder comment, I'm not sure if these snakes were bred irresponsibly or captive hatched.

I don't know if this is at all possible, but can bins be used for adult snakes as well? Come time for them to be upgraded, I was thinking about doing another bin setup then as they grow out in that, building either a small (large, really) rack or a stacked cage system. What should be the next size bin I get for them?

I do eventually have the intention of breeding long down the road when I have quality animals of the proper ages and weights but these two will never breed due to unknown genetics. I have bred before (not snakes) and when I do, I never breed animals that don't have solid, provable backgrounds including photos of the parents and such. I don't like selling people animals that may end up as breeders themselves with such mixed genetics it yields deformities, shortened lifespans, ect, if the offspring I produced don't already yield the same. It isn't fair to the buyer, the hobbyist or the animal itself.

I want to thank you all for being so helpful in all of this. I really appreciate it and I'm sure my new snakes will, too. I will do my best to keep you all updated and present in their lives as they grow. Hopefully my fiance lets me keep both of them. :cool:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by southbay54

nobody said they did anything different. Just a simple question

---

What?? :confuzd:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Flint

My email has been hacked as well as my friend's. I'm almost positive this person has deleted all ways we would have to contact them or get access to names and such. I wanted to post on the BOI but I don't have the name/website and now no longer the email. Both Rocky and I are very fortunate that he still has all but what he paid for in his bank account and these snakes arrived alive. Hopefully this experience teaches him NOT to gift animals, even though I know he was just trying to do something nice, I would have preferred he approached me about it first and I could see if he'd order the snake after the enclosure was set up. Too bad. Just chalk this up to a learning experience and move on. Enjoy the snakes you have!

As far as the backyard breeder comment, I'm not sure if these snakes were bred irresponsibly or captive hatched. Boas give birth to live babies. They are not "hatched." Just a little info for the future. In this case "backyard breeder" wouldn't mean quite the same as it does with dogs. Boa breeding is pretty straightforward. The problem with this guy was the lack of professional communication and with not shipping the actual animal that was ordered.

I don't know if this is at all possible, but can bins be used for adult snakes as well? Come time for them to be upgraded, I was thinking about doing another bin setup then as they grow out in that, building either a small (large, really) rack or a stacked cage system. What should be the next size bin I get for them? Tubs are ok for boas up to about 4 ft. Once they reach that size, there really isn't a tub that is big enough for their adult needs. With the exception of the Iris Christmas Tree boxes. But those are really hard to find anymore. PVC enclosures work best for adult boas. You want a minimum of a 4x2x2 ft enclosure for an adult.

I do eventually have the intention of breeding long down the road when I have quality animals of the proper ages and weights but these two will never breed due to unknown genetics. I have bred before (not snakes) and when I do, I never breed animals that don't have solid, provable backgrounds including photos of the parents and such. I don't like selling people animals that may end up as breeders themselves with such mixed genetics it yields deformities, shortened lifespans, ect, if the offspring I produced don't already yield the same. It isn't fair to the buyer, the hobbyist or the animal itself.

I want to thank you all for being so helpful in all of this. I really appreciate it and I'm sure my new snakes will, too. I will do my best to keep you all updated and present in their lives as they grow. Hopefully my fiance lets me keep both of them. :cool:

---

Good for you! Hope it all works out! :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Flint

My email has been hacked as well as my friend's. I'm almost positive this person has deleted all ways we would have to contact them or get access to names and such. I wanted to post on the BOI but I don't have the name/website and now no longer the email.

---

There's no return address on the box the snakes were shipped in?

Quote:

---

I don't know if this is at all possible, but can bins be used for adult snakes as well?

---

I house my ball pythons in 41-qt tubs in a rack. Boas will need a lot more space, I would start to save up for the appropriate-size enclosure from a company like Animal Plastics, Boamaster, ConstrictorsNW, etc. Fortunately you have a few years.

A few years? No, I don't. Columbian Boas get about 4ft in the first year... I can build one enclosure over the next few months then when they need to be moved from the tubs, one can get the enclosure and one can get the tank until I can build another enclosure. I think that'll be my best bet seeing as I've looked at the professionally made ones and I just don't have $500 to drop on two enclosures in the next year. I know boas are born live, it's hard not to be used to saying hatched in the reptile world, haha.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Flint

A few years? No, I don't. Columbian Boas get about 4ft in the first year... I can build one enclosure over the next few months then when they need to be moved from the tubs, one can get the enclosure and one can get the tank until I can build another enclosure. I think that'll be my best bet seeing as I've looked at the professionally made ones and I just don't have $500 to drop on two enclosures in the next year. I know boas are born live, it's hard not to be used to saying hatched in the reptile world, haha.

---

Not always, no. And Colombians are spelled with a "o" :gj:

Sorry about that spelling error. I can order two Iris Christmas Tree Boxes online for $98, then it would just be a matter of a new thermostat for one, more heat tape and some masterlocks. Sounding like I won't break $200 to bin them for life, though I will eventually invest in something I can actually see my snakes in and something larger as well. I'll be in a more permanent home at that point, though, which will also help. We are renting an apartment right now and the only reason we are staying here is because it's $800 with everything included (internet, cable, electric, water....) but as soon as we pay off our truck and get a new vehicle, we will be saving to move and probably rent a house. By that time I can start saving to build nice, view-able cages for them both. I know I don't NEED the masterlocks on the tree boxes, but having a baby on the way, it's added peace of mind. The 34qts will get locks once the boas break 2.5ft.

Lot's of stuff to prepare, but there is time. A 4 foot Colombian boa is not that big. Mine is about 4' 7" and I always imagined that would seem large. He still curls up in a tiny spot, but you will need some space for proper thermal regulation.

You CAN find some very affordable deals on caging, and I'm talking about good caging. I was in the hunt at one point, and found used Boaphiles for $100 each with Flexwatt already installed, the next day in the classifieds I found a breeder willing to sell me a boa and a cage for about $160. I opted to by brand new from Pro-Line but there are many deals to be had.

Lots of folks get out of the hobby or downsize and look to get some quick $ for a cage or two.

Don't skip on thermostats or heating options.

I don't know how old you are, but getting married and having a baby are pretty big life changers, and if you are short on cash, suffice to say,,,, the snakes will be the last thing on your mind.

That said I like your enthusiasm and efforts to do this right. I think you'll get this worked out, and coming here for advice is a good move.

The person that "gifted" you the snakes didn't do you or the snakes any favors, but I'm sure they had no idea what goes into the actual keeping of some reptiles or that you were not ready. Let's hope there are no medical issues, and they take food and shed properly!


There is a person on here who's moniker is "EXPENSIVE HOBBY", and it's true.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gio

Lot's of stuff to prepare, but there is time. A 4 foot Colombian boa is not that big. Mine is about 4' 7" and I always imagined that would seem large. He still curls up in a tiny spot, but you will need some space for proper thermal regulation.

---

I'm definitely not worried about size, I was planning on a 7-9ft snake when I personally purchased. I am just concerned about caging is all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gio

You CAN find some very affordable deals on caging, and I'm talking about good caging. I was in the hunt at one point, and found used Boaphiles for $100 each with Flexwatt already installed, the next day in the classifieds I found a breeder willing to sell me a boa and a cage for about $160. I opted to by brand new from Pro-Line but there are many deals to be had.

---

I seem to be in a "dead area" as far as reptile-related deals. A woman on CL the other day was trying to desperately get rid of her two dragons in a 10 gal for $300. :no: We just don't have any breeders around here, Petsmart/Petco are our only options and the average person that buys a snake there, isn't going to come home and buy a $300 cage for it, they are going to stick with their fish tank. /:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gio

Don't skip on thermostats or heating options.

---

I told him as soon as he told me the heat tape wasn't in the box that we needed to order some right away or there would be HUGE issues and he honored my telling him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gio

I don't know how old you are, but getting married and having a baby are pretty big life changers, and if you are short on cash, suffice to say,,,, the snakes will be the last thing on your mind.

---

I am freshly nineteen (as of mid-October) not so worried about the wedding (due to money right now, we are only getting our license and paying someone $30 to let us sign their paper, lol) but I think that Aliceander and the snakes will be equally worried about. My animals are a huge part in my life and while I've never been a mom, I don't think they will fall much under being cared and concerned for than my daughter. They are my babies, after all!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gio

That said I like your enthusiasm and efforts to do this right. I think you'll get this worked out, and coming here for advice is a good move.

---

When in doubt, I always look for a forum. It took three to find this one and I was actually referred to this one via another new member on the first forum I joined who was getting attacked frequently as well. This forum has been nothing but wonderful and I haven't seen many attacks even on the more ignorant owners I have seen on here. I hope to be a member for a long time and after I've been here for a good six months to a year, I may even become a member and contribute a little bit. :sweeet:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gio

The person that "gifted" you the snakes didn't do you or the snakes any favors, but I'm sure they had no idea what goes into the actual keeping of some reptiles or that you were not ready. Let's hope there are no medical issues, and they take food and shed properly!

---

I am very anxious to actually have the snakes in hand and inspect them personally. I, too, hope they are healthy, eat well and shed well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gio

There is a person on here who's moniker is "EXPENSIVE HOBBY", and it's true.

---

I kept and bred monitors and larger lizards as well as dragons and geckos. I am FULLY aware how expensive this hobby can be!!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gio

You CAN find some very affordable deals on caging, and I'm talking about good caging. I was in the hunt at one point, and found used Boaphiles for $100 each with Flexwatt already installed, the next day in the classifieds I found a breeder willing to sell me a boa and a cage for about $160. I opted to by brand new from Pro-Line but there are many deals to be had.

Lots of folks get out of the hobby or downsize and look to get some quick $ for a cage or two.

---

I'm going to second this. In the last year through CL and local reptile forums on FB I got screaming deals on 4 48"x38" Boamasters with RHP's installed, a 36"x24" aboreal Boaphile with RPP and heat tape, and two 96"x30" Monster enclosures. I paid less than 30% of retail for each, and what sealed the deal is I paid cash, paid the asking price, and picked them up. The only downside was I had to drive my truck into northern VA/metro DC 3 times.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Flint

When in doubt, I always look for a forum. It took three to find this one and I was actually referred to this one via another new member on the first forum I joined who was getting attacked frequently as well. This forum has been nothing but wonderful and I haven't seen many attacks even on the more ignorant owners I have seen on here. I hope to be a member for a long time and after I've been here for a good six months to a year, I may even become a member and contribute a little bit. :sweeet:

---

I don't think "attacks" are very constructive, and often lead to somebody that genuinely wants help going away, however I've also seen people sniff around for advice hoping to get just one person to tell them what they want to hear and do just the opposite of what the experienced folks say.

Nobody really likes to respond with quality advice only to have it ignored and usually at the animal's expense.

I don't get that at all from you and you seem to be eager to listen to good advice and do everything in your power to succeed.

Once you are all set, in all reality a couple of snakes are really easy pets. It's the front end work that is the hardest part.

Fresh water, cleaning, and a meal once a week, every 10, 14 or 20 days is a snap.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gio

I don't think "attacks" are very constructive, and often lead to somebody that genuinely wants help going away, however I've also seen people sniff around for advice hoping to get just one person to tell them what they want to hear and do just the opposite of what the experienced folks say.

Nobody really likes to respond with quality advice only to have it ignored and usually at the animal's expense.

I don't get that at all from you and you seem to be eager to listen to good advice and do everything in your power to succeed.

Once you are all set, in all reality a couple of snakes are really easy pets. It's the front end work that is the hardest part.

Fresh water, cleaning, and a meal once a week, every 10, 14 or 20 days is a snap.

---

The forum we came from were calling us liars and a not even reading the entire post before attacking so they made our posts look ignorant and irresponsible rather than reading the next sentence or word, even. It was very frustrating and, especially because, while I may be newer to snakes, I've bred MONITORS of all things. Dragons aren't an easy feat to breed the correct way, either. I won't take much credit for the geckos, they do their own thing, lol. But I am not new to the hobby and when I am treated with the utmost disregard and like I have no idea what I'm doing just because we are having a short pay month, I get offended. Not to mention, their advice was below par and I sincerely worry for newbies looking for information to help their animal that end up on that site among others. They will either get wrong information, scared off or both when neither will help their animal get the care it needs and they will likely go back to Petco to ask an employee. It's very sad. I think dragons are easy pets and those are mid to high-maintenance for others, so I am definitely not worried about changing their paper towels (or substrate when I switch after QT) and we have a cat, a dog and fish, so changing water isn't anything out of the ordinary. The tanks get 25% or more changed once a week and the cat and dog have their water changed every other day or whenever they put food in it. Snakes won't put food in their water but they leave presents.

Now, as far as feeding, I'm going to feed rats from the start. From the research I've done, it is clearly the better, healthier option especially on a moderate-sized baby. They are supposed to be on hopper mice so rat fuzzies should be about of size, if not just a tad too large. I was told on a couple of forums that my plans for feeding one prey item every 7 days was too often and I would be power-feeding, but in all the care information I read, it said 5-10 days for young snakes. I thought 7 was a good medium and will be easy to keep on a regular schedule until the snakes are large/old enough to move to biweekly feedings. Is that too often, though? My understanding was that powerfeeding is multiple feedings a week of appropriate sized prey, even doubled up prey multiple times a week. I don't want to have these snakes for 5 years, I want them to be happy and healthy for the 15-25 that they deserve. If I am mistaken, PLEASE correct me. I want to do what is best for these animals to the utmost of my ability.

Another feeding-related topic, I read multiple people posting saying that feeding in the cage is healthier. Is this just due to the fact that you aren't handling the snake after it's eaten? I felt these posts were worded wrong seeing as, regardless which container the rat goes in, it's the same rat, it has the same nutritional value. I had never heard of feeding in the enclosure due to the fact that feeding outside is always recommended. I should be feeding in their respective bins, though, correct? I'm going to hook-train them not only for my peace of mind but for my daughter's safety when she becomes old enough to want to interact with these magnificent animals.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Flint

Another feeding-related topic, I read multiple people posting saying that feeding in the cage is healthier. Is this just due to the fact that you aren't handling the snake after it's eaten? I felt these posts were worded wrong seeing as, regardless which container the rat goes in, it's the same rat, it has the same nutritional value. I had never heard of feeding in the enclosure due to the fact that feeding outside is always recommended. I should be feeding in their respective bins, though, correct? I'm going to hook-train them not only for my peace of mind but for my daughter's safety when she becomes old enough to want to interact with these magnificent animals.

---

Feeding in a separate container is one of the biggest myths going. The thought process behind it is totally flawed. People say the snake will "think" every time the cage is opened its going to eat and you risk being bitten. Well, you still have to open the cage to REMOVE the snake to feed elsewhere, which requires pre and post feed handling. So, using the mythical theory in reverse, one could easily argue you will be bitten every time you remove the snake from it's enclosure.

You ARE far more likely to be bitten putting a snake back into it's enclosure after feeding in a separate tank if it's feeding response it still turned on and the smell of food is in the air. My boa, at times is still in "feed" mode a day after he eats.

I've always wondered why nobody thinks if you are just taking the animal out to handle why it wouldn't make the same association about food using the same theory, seeing that it's out of the enclosure and that is when it gets food regularly. So,, open cage means food, but out of the cage means wait and see???? Makes no sense because it isn't associating the open cage door with food or being out of the cage with food. There is more to it.

The snake isn't reacting to being in or out, it's reacting to smells and movements. The closer it is to feeding day, the more movements and smells will stimulate the snake.

The answer to safely feeding in or out of the enclosure is NOT to smell or move like a prey item.

I'm baffled that people ignore the fact that keepers of multiple giant retics, burms, olive and scrub pythons would spend hours moving these huge animals around to feed in a separate area. They feed the snake where it lives. You'd have 2, 3 or 4 people doing the job.

That doesn't even begin to cover what would happen with venomous snakes.


The only reasons I could see feeding in another area would be if you have 2 snakes in the same cage or to minimize ingestion of substrate, which can be avoided by laying news print down in the cage.

All that said people do find a system that works for them and should do as they choose, but the myth that in cage feeding causes aggression, is just that, a myth.

Thank you for the clarification! Is my planned feeding schedule okay or is that too often?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Flint

Thank you for the clarification! Is my planned feeding schedule okay or is that too often?

---

Hola,

Would you want to post it as a new topic?

I think you'll get more advice if you make a new thread. Kali will probably give you the best feeding advice. She is conservative and very in tune with health issues and feeding.

I think it's worth a new thread : )

Okay, thanks! This thread is pretty topped out at five pages, haha. I just try not to bombard forums with a million threads.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Flint

A few years? No, I don't. Columbian Boas get about 4ft in the first year... I can build one enclosure over the next few months then when they need to be moved from the tubs, one can get the enclosure and one can get the tank until I can build another enclosure. I think that'll be my best bet seeing as I've looked at the professionally made ones and I just don't have $500 to drop on two enclosures in the next year. I know boas are born live, it's hard not to be used to saying hatched in the reptile world, haha.

---

You've gotten great advice on your other topics here so I won't get into all that. But I did want to address this....


YES you DO have a few years. No BCI should be 4 feet in their first year. If they are, they are being grossly overfed. My 2012's are only about 2 feet long. I have 2011's that aren't even at 4 ft. Boas should be grown slowly. I did see the feeding thread you started and commented on it - but I felt it was important enough to mention here too. :gj: