no pest strip question

Ok so I'm fighting mites now for a few weeks with some sprays and stuff from the pet store. I did as everyone here says to do. Took out the substrate, cleaned everything and so on. Anyway, none of that worked so now I'm trying the pest strips. I want to try to make sure the room they are in is free'd of them so I left the strip whole and hung the strip in the room a few feet from the enclosure. I did this about 12 hours ago and just went to check on things but still see moving, alive mites on my snake. How long should I expect things to take doing it this way? I would just cut a piece off of the strip and put it and the snake in a small tub but ultimately the problem is still in the room and the process will just repeat itself. Maybe I'll end up doing that too but the answer I need is in regards to my current method please......Thanks in advance.

I can't offer advice on a strip. But if you have prevent a mite and treat the enclosure, they will no longer be able to feed off your snake, and will die without a host.

As Doolittle said I too have never tried strips so I don't know how affective they are. But I've become pretty good at eradicating mites. I have two tanks a 20 gallon and a 40 gallon so this process is a lot harder than with a tub. I throw all the bedding in my compost pile, then I take the tank (tub in your case) outside and spray it down really really good on Jet lol so I blast the crap out of the tank. Then I wash the enclosure with a lot of bleach and hot water and fill it up to the brim and just leave it outside full of water for an hour (idk if the mites drown but it can't hurt to try lol.) then I dump all that water out outside blast the crap out of it again with the Jet stream on the hose, wipe the tank down and let it dry/air out from the bleach smell. Then I bring the enclosure inside and treat with provent a mite spray, and then treat the infected snake with Reptile Relief spray. I let the snake sit with spray on him for 5-10 minutes then clean him up. After I've spent an entire doing all that treatment I never see another mite. Lol it's a lot of work with my 40 gallon tank because I'm a small girl and it's pretty heavy but after all the hard work the mites are all gone. Should be a lot easier with tubs though! :) you can give this a try if you want. It never hurts to try.


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What did you use?

I have only had mites once. Came on three bloods I ordered. Not wanting to wait for PAM I tried Reptile Spray from Petco. I cleaned the tubs, bowls, hides, and snakes with it. Killed them the first shot. I also sprayed the floor directly around their area and then vacuumed.

I have never tried any strips either. It sounds like something got missed in the cleaning process.

I may end up treating for them that way. I just don't have provent a mite locally available to me so I was trying to use something I could just go to the store to get. I have read lots of positive results from the strips but most of them involve basically fumigating a small tub, with the snake inside, with a small piece of the strip. I have read one or two threads on using the strip as a room wide preventative measure so I'm hoping that I will get some effect out of doing something similar. I do like the bleach idea though, it doesn't hurt to be extra safe.

Reptile Spray is the product name, its not PAM. Petco sells it for about $8 a bottle.

http://m.petco.com/product/109610/Na...ile-Spray.aspx

I dont remember the name of the stuff I used but all said I finished it off and no longer have the bottle. I then tried a natural enzyme spray. It is labeled as a cleaning product but the company I bought it from told me it worked for mites as well and when I looked online people use it for bedbugs and stuff like that too. I probably didn't give that a fair chance but I didn't think much of it.

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Originally Posted by KMG

What did you use?

I have only had mites once. Came on three bloods I ordered. Not wanting to wait for PAM I tried Reptile Spray from Petco. I cleaned the tubs, bowls, hides, and snakes with it. Killed them the first shot. I also sprayed the floor directly around their area and then vacuumed.

I have never tried any strips either. It sounds like something got missed in the cleaning process.

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Oddly enough, you're the first person I've ever seen mention spraying the carpet and vacuuming up the little corpses. That's actually a great idea.
I've never used PAM or Reptile Spray, but I have used Mite Off and Frontline Spray. Frontline worked REALLY well, and can be used on the animal and the tank. Mite Off works great for killing ants.

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Be careful with the no-pest strip, I've had a snake killed that way in the past. You're probably safe hanging it in the room as long as it's a big enough room, but putting it in the enclosure can be dangerous. Back in the old days it was actually recommended to put a 1 inch square of no pest stripe in the snakes enclosure but there are much safer alternatives out there now. Provent-a-mite works very very well if you follow the directions but even that can be dangerous if not used correctly.

Yeah I have no intentions of putting any of the strip in the enclosure. As for the frontline....is it safe to the point I can just spray the snake and enclosure and be done with it or do I need to make sure to clean up after spraying, for example can I just open the enclosure and start spraying with the snake still in it and leave it at that or do I have to spray and let it air out kinda thing?

I would NOT spray the snake, just the enclosure. And I don't know enough about frontline to recommend it. Lately if I don't use PAM, I've used something with the same active ingredient which is Permethrin

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Originally Posted by schoch79

Yeah I have no intentions of putting any of the strip in the enclosure. As for the frontline....is it safe to the point I can just spray the snake and enclosure and be done with it or do I need to make sure to clean up after spraying, for example can I just open the enclosure and start spraying with the snake still in it and leave it at that or do I have to spray and let it air out kinda thing?

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You don't want to put the snake in a confined environment with the fumes, so no. For the snake, I sprayed it on a paper towel and wiped her down well, then rinsed her off and put her in a QT tank on paper towels. For the tank, I sprayed every surface VERY heavily. Make sure to get any cracks, crevices, lips, overhangs, seams, and gaps. I even put plastic wrap over any ventilation openings to completely seal the tank so the little bastards couldn't escape their doom.

As far as water dishes, hides, and furnishings, I had one piece of sandblasted grapevine I wanted to keep, so I doused it with mite off and put it outside in a black trash bag for a few days. Bowls and hides went in the dishwasher on the "blast furnace" setting. All bedding got thrown out.

After sitting for a couple days, the tank got rinsed out really well. 30 days later, I retreated the tank, rinsed, dried, set it back up, and moved Ajja back in.

I might have gone slightly over the top, but I'm REALLY OCD with my animals.

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You need to do more research on this to do it, but RID for lice works. The active ingredient needs to be permethrin as mentioned. Don't put it on the snake directly and make sure it is properly diluted to be safe. There are threads on this site that will describe but figured this is a point in a good direction. I wouldn't personally put anything directly on the snake except the mite spray at the pet store that was mentioned as being sold by Petco.

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Originally Posted by MrLang

You need to do more research on this to do it, but RID for lice works. The active ingredient needs to be permethrin as mentioned. Don't put it on the snake directly and make sure it is properly diluted to be safe. There are threads on this site that will describe but figured this is a point in a good direction. I wouldn't personally put anything directly on the snake except the mite spray at the pet store that was mentioned as being sold by Petco.

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Just to clarify what I said about Frontline ON the snake, I wouldn't have done it or suggested it had it not been what my vet instructed. Aside from that, MrLang is correct. No pesticides should be applied to the snake unless SPECIFICALLY formulated for that purpose.

As always, if you have ANY doubts or concerns, consult a qualified veterinarian.

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Honestly all that stuff can work but it's not what it's designed for.

PAM(Provent-a-Mite) creates a barrier for the mites and once dry it's still effective at killing mites. The harmful thing about PAM is the fumes. If you use as directed after about 15 minutes the fumes are gone and it's dry. You could open a window with a fan to help with the fumes. This barrier lasts for at least 30 days, but longer than that some people say, but if I were fighting mites I'd treat once a month for three months, to be safe. Once it's dry it's no longer harmful to the snake so you can put the snake back in the tub. What I do is I spray a cloth and I rub the lips of the tubs and the base of the tubs. Then the animal in quarantine I wipe all around the outside and openings of the tub/tank and spray the bedding without the water bowl. You can put the water bowl back because once PAM is dry it's no longer a risk to your animal.

Now the Reptile Relief/Reptile Spray can be used on the animal because it works different. Once dry this apparently loses it's effectiveness as well. What it does is it eats away at the mites shell and then salt or something else in it dries it up. This works great IF you get all the mites. You aren't supposed to spray this around the head but you can spray on the body of the snake and I'll usually rub the snake down a few times with a sprayed paper towel to try to work it in and under the scales. I'll sometimes use a cute tip for under the head where the bottom of the jaw where they like to hide as well. Then after letting them soak with that stuff for about 15-20 minutes I'll rinse the snake off really well and then I'll put a tub of water with a top on and I'll put the snake in the tub. The snake usually figures out that soaking helps with the mites so within a few minutes they stop slithering all over. My PL that is in QT because he had mites from a breeder at the show even learned that submerging fully helped as well. Then after about 15-20 minutes of soaking I'll dry them off with a towel and then I'll get something slightly stiff but thin like a torn piece of a magazine and fold it once and I'll look backwards under the scales of the snake and I'll gently swipe the mites out and kill them if they're not already dead. My PL also learned that when I put his head upside down I'm doing just that so he's making it a lot easier on me than I've had to deal with other new snakes. That along with the PAM in the enclosure and all around openings will help you resolve this issue.

The reason I say about preventative treatment is because even being in a different room, mites can still crawl, something around 11 inches per minute if I'm not mistaken so while you may of treated your snake a mite or two may of gotten away and heading towards your new collection. So the preventative step makes sure you don't end up with mites in a few weeks again.

EDIT:
So while RID and that other stuff might work, it's meant for lice, not for snake mites. Yes, it has Permethrin in it, but that's a wide term. If I say the term soap, I could be talking about Ivory bar soap or soap that you wash your clothes with(Detergent). The fact is they're both considered Soap and while Permethrin has a lot of diff aspects of it, some are safer for your snake and some aren't. So do it the right way if you're going to do it.

BTW, no offense to you RID guys.

The active ingredient in Frontline is called fipronil. Just doing a google search on "fipronil snake mite" is enough to scare me out of using it as it appears to be more toxic to snakes than permethrin.
http://www.karingalvet.com.au/Pet-Ca...tile-Mites.asp
http://www.boa-constrictors.com/en/I...nt_snake_mites
http://www.repticzone.com/forums/Boa...s/1791835.html


Also, it does not seem to persist as well as permethrin-based products, so it won't affect any newly-hatched mites.

PAM is a 0.5% permethrin solution in an aerosol can. One 2-oz (59 ml) bottle of NIX/RID lice treatment (available at WalMart, CVS, Rite-Aid, etc.) mixed very well with 1 gallon of water also produces a 0.5% permethrin solution if you need to purchase something fast and don't want to wait to have the PAM shipped. You will need to get your own spray bottle, obviously one that has never been (and will never be) used for any other chemical product. Use it just on the enclosure, substrate (paper towels), and hides, and allow them all to dry completely before putting your snake back. Do not use it on the water dish. Some people spray their snakes with it, I do not as permethrin poisoning is a risk. Instead I treat the snake by soaking in water with just a drop of mild dish soap like Dawn (it drowns the mites per my vet) and/or with a product like Reptile Spray that is formulated to use on the snake. I just spray a paper towel and gently wipe the snake with it and let them crawl across it, and use a q-tip for under the chin, as most snakes hate getting sprayed.

Keep the permethrin bottle out of direct sunlight and it will be good for 30 days. I re-treat clean paper towels and allow them to dry before replacing soiled ones in the enclosure.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

The active ingredient in Frontline is called fipronil. Just doing a google search on "fipronil snake mite" is enough to scare me out of using it as it appears to be more toxic to snakes than permethrin.
http://www.karingalvet.com.au/Pet-Ca...tile-Mites.asp
http://www.boa-constrictors.com/en/I...nt_snake_mites
http://www.repticzone.com/forums/Boa...s/1791835.html


Also, it does not seem to persist as well as permethrin-based products, so it won't affect any newly-hatched mites.

PAM is a 0.5% permethrin solution in an aerosol can. One 2-oz (59 ml) bottle of NIX/RID lice treatment (available at WalMart, CVS, Rite-Aid, etc.) mixed very well with 1 gallon of water also produces a 0.5% permethrin solution if you need to purchase something fast and don't want to wait to have the PAM shipped. You will need to get your own spray bottle, obviously one that has never been (and will never be) used for any other chemical product. Use it just on the enclosure, substrate (paper towels), and hides, and allow them all to dry completely before putting your snake back. Do not use it on the water dish. Some people spray their snakes with it, I do not as permethrin poisoning is a risk. Instead I treat the snake by soaking in water with just a drop of mild dish soap like Dawn (it drowns the mites per my vet) and/or with a product like Reptile Spray that is formulated to use on the snake. I just spray a paper towel and gently wipe the snake with it and let them crawl across it, and use a q-tip for under the chin, as most snakes hate getting sprayed.

Keep the permethrin bottle out of direct sunlight and it will be good for 30 days. I re-treat clean paper towels and allow them to dry before replacing soiled ones in the enclosure.

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I'm not sure what it was that scared you. I googled it myself, and almost the entire first page of results were recommendations FOR it. The one sorta negative thing I found was a comment about a solution of 9.5% fipronil. The bottle I'm looking at is a .29% solution. Additionally, as the first link you posted states, the vast majority of adverse outcomes are in very young, sick snakes, mostly Boas, and are caused by the alcohol carrier rather than fipronil its self.

As I said before, I wouldn't suggest it had it not been specifically prescribed by an extremely knowledgeable, VERY experienced, respected reptile vet. Not only is he a member of ARAV, he's also the founder and first president.

Not trying to bust your chops or be argumentative, I just want to point out that this isn't just some crazy idea I came up with on my own.

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Gotta admit this is the first time I've heard of a vet recommending frontline for snake mites. Like I said I don't know much about the product so I've never used it. You said it was a .29% solution of fipronil? How did he recommend applying it? Does it last a long time in the enclosure or does it degrade quickly? How often should it be re-applied?

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Originally Posted by MarkS

Gotta admit this is the first time I've heard of a vet recommending frontline for snake mites. Like I said I don't know much about the product so I've never used it. You said it was a .29% solution of fipronil? How did he recommend applying it? Does it last a long time in the enclosure or does it degrade quickly? How often should it be re-applied?

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I can't find the actual care sheet he gave me, otherwise I'd post it. Basically my post #12 above is the process. Just don't spray the head, rinse well, and treat the tank again after, I think, 20 days? I'm drawing a blank on the life cycle of a mite, but the 2nd treatment is to get rid of the ones who hadn't hatched yet.

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Thanks for all the advice guys. I was just out getting some mice and decided to get some lice shampoo. I decided to try the enzyme stuff right on the snake one last time before the shampoo and it does seem to work on killing the mites so I gave it another shot in the enclosure. I really soaked everything this time so only time will tell. If it doesn't work I guess its time for the shampoo. It's called Kleen Free Naturally if you guys wanted to check it out. The reviews rate everywhere from this stuff is great for bed bugs/scabies to this is garbage don't waste your money LOL. Again, this stuff is sold as a cleaning product and not a bug killer. I was recommended this product when I put in an order for hypoaspis mites but was told the couldn't ship them because the cold weather would kill them. The guy asked me what I wanted the mites for and explained to me that I should try this. He however did explain that the fda or whoever regulates stuff like this doesn't legally allow this stuff to be said that it can kill mites but it does. I think he said it worked as a desiccant. Anyway I'm done rambling. Thanks again for all the info.

I'm in no way trying to stir up something but just because the vet is a vet doesn't mean he knows everything. Certain chemicals which aren't lethal to mammals pose a severe risk to reptiles.

Then instead of using products meant for the specific issue you're dealing with people tend to cut corners then down the road they end up with an issue. I'm not saying you will but it's come up more than once in my 5 years of being a member of this forum.

Bed bugs/scabies isn't snake mites, and the fact you're having to retreat everything again proves that the stuff isn't doing the job it's needed to do. A lot of that stuff only kills stuff on contact, that's not eliminating the eggs and it's not solving your problem. By the time you try all these cheaper methods that are way less effective you would of spent less actually ordering the stuff that's meant to do the job and it would of cost you less from the get go.

While you may even kill the mites on the snake, are you preventing the ones that aren't on the snake that have started crawling around looking for a new host? NO, because nothing you're using is created for that. Mites can go between baseboards, on the walls, up the walls, anywhere you could possibly thing. PAM works by creating a barrier. You have to use the right tools for the job.

That's like if I'm a carpenter and I need to put some nails in the wood, sure I could use a brick, a 2x4, a baseball bat. The fact is that it's not the right tool for the job.

Another example, two pet stores, one clean and the other filthy, well you decide that since the dirtier pet store has rodents $3 cheaper you get from there. Then the next thing you know you end up with a dead snake or a snake with an illness and then you've got an expensive vet bill. All I'm trying to get at is if it were regarding yourself or your children would you cut corners? NO, then why do it for your pets? They rely on you to take care of them because they can't.

This is something I found a few years ago which I remember when I was typing the soap comment:

"The word permethrin is a generic name of a group of pyrethroid chemical isomers. This is like saying everything with the word soap is the same thing. Put your wet hand into a box of powdered laundry detergent and see if it is the same as a bar of ivory, but they are both "soap".

Without exception, these other products use a much more toxic isomer as they are all designed to be applied to material that maybe will have the potential for contact with mammals, which have a completely different physiology than reptiles do. These products are designed to be as toxic as possible to get a quick "knock down". These higher toxicities will not harm mammals, but are documented to harm lower vertebrates, including reptiles, fish, amphibians, mollusks and so forth and therefore can be used for these other uses. Also, only a very small percentage of what is in the can is the "active" ingredient, the rest is always a trade secret of the company, so will never be disclosed (only the generic active name has to be disclosed under EPA regulations). Different isomers have differing toxicities and again, only a range of the cis-trans ratio is given on a label, so one can never find out what is really in the can (again trade secret).

Since a product is only approved by the EPA for the uses listed on the label, chemicals in the formula that are not toxic to the host for the testing submitted, doesn't mean they would not be toxic to a host not listed. In fact many of the "inerts" used in these permethrin formulas are toxic to reptiles. If the company tried to receive EPA approval with these formulas for use on reptiles, they would not, as the EPA would not allow a product to be sold that would harm the host listed on the label. This is why the EPA regulations state that it is a federal offense to sell or use a product inconsistent with the label, not only because of the risk to the host, but also because such usage can create resistance.

Good points neal. Up until your earlier posts I didn't realize that PAM created a barrier. Your argument for not cutting corners on myself or kids is flawed however. I would, and many others will and do, cut corners with themselves and family. That is why there are so many alternative medicine type books, teaching, threads and so on out there. In fact lice shampoo is a clearly accepted treatment for lice but I have heard of people suffocating lice instead by using greasy type products, and it works just fine. Of course that is just one example but I'm sure everyone here has there own knowledge of home cures for things. I'm not making an argument against PAM and in fact already ordered some. The argument I make is against your ---only one product should be used for mites and all others are garbage---type statements. If that's not what you intended I apologize for my assumptions. Again, I don't want nor do I have any ill feelings, I just wanted to put in my 2 cents on your response, hehe. Have a good day.

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Originally Posted by schoch79

Good points neal. Up until your earlier posts I didn't realize that PAM created a barrier. Your argument for not cutting corners on myself or kids is flawed however. I would, and many others will and do, cut corners with themselves and family. That is why there are so many alternative medicine type books, teaching, threads and so on out there. In fact lice shampoo is a clearly accepted treatment for lice but I have heard of people suffocating lice instead by using greasy type products, and it works just fine. Of course that is just one example but I'm sure everyone here has there own knowledge of home cures for things. I'm not making an argument against PAM and in fact already ordered some. The argument I make is against your ---only one product should be used for mites and all others are garbage---type statements. If that's not what you intended I apologize for my assumptions. Again, I don't want nor do I have any ill feelings, I just wanted to put in my 2 cents on your response, hehe. Have a good day.

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I'm not saying all the other stuff that can be used to treat mites is garbage. I'm stating that like rid and nix aren't meant for mites. While they have permethrin, what people don't understand is permethrin is a broad descrption of chemical compound basically. It's not meant for mites and there could be long term side affects. I'm saying that when you spend $200 on a snake, you shouldn't cut corners in treatment for a snake regardless the price. A pet owners responsibility should be the animals health first because that animal is relying on you to take care of itself. The other stuff they sell doesn't work, it's that simple. I've used reptile relief/spray before and while I've had luck with it before I'm not this go around. It's not the best thing on the market either, PAM is.

The cutting corners for children thing was meant more towards treatment. If your kid almost cuts off his finger, are you going to just tape it? NO, you would seek the proper help to remedy the situation. If not then that's irresponsible. That's all I meant.

EDIT:
And I'm not calling people who use nix or any of that irresponsible. I was saying that if your kid almost cut his finger off and you wouldn't seek medical help that makes you irresponsible.

ILOL, well put. I do care about my snakes and if/when this doesn't work I will be using PAM. I have no problems with using it and in fact its not even expensive. Basically I was trying to use some of the other stuff because it was the first thing I came across. In fact when I was first looking around I wanted to stay away from chemicals completely and I had my heart set on predatory mites that would eat snake mites. From what I remember reading the live pretty well in reptile enclosures and in my opinion would be the least invasive way to treat the snakes. Anyway, I guess this is a dead subject now. Thanks again for everything.

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Originally Posted by schoch79

ILOL, well put. I do care about my snakes and if/when this doesn't work I will be using PAM. I have no problems with using it and in fact its not even expensive. Basically I was trying to use some of the other stuff because it was the first thing I came across. In fact when I was first looking around I wanted to stay away from chemicals completely and I had my heart set on predatory mites that would eat snake mites. From what I remember reading the live pretty well in reptile enclosures and in my opinion would be the least invasive way to treat the snakes. Anyway, I guess this is a dead subject now. Thanks again for everything.

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Predatory mites could work, I know some people that have used them. I just wouldn't, unless it was a last resort. I was more or less referring to using PAM over other mite treatments, not predatory mites.

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Originally Posted by schoch79

Ok so I'm fighting mites now for a few weeks with some sprays and stuff from the pet store. I did as everyone here says to do. Took out the substrate, cleaned everything and so on. Anyway, none of that worked so now I'm trying the pest strips. I want to try to make sure the room they are in is free'd of them so I left the strip whole and hung the strip in the room a few feet from the enclosure. I did this about 12 hours ago and just went to check on things but still see moving, alive mites on my snake. How long should I expect things to take doing it this way? I would just cut a piece off of the strip and put it and the snake in a small tub but ultimately the problem is still in the room and the process will just repeat itself. Maybe I'll end up doing that too but the answer I need is in regards to my current method please......Thanks in advance.

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Pest strips/vapona strips work awesome.
I have them hanging in my snake rooms and rat room all the time.
I have had both snakes and rodents get mites. Nest mites on rodents are a horror.
They don't stay on the rodents. They like us too.
I tried the PAM and other stuff. Problem kept returning.
I started using the strips, problem went away and does not come back.
I have now been using this method for 5 years. No problems at all.
All snakes and rodents are clean and healthy.
It will take about a week to 10 days of exposure to the strips fumes, for all the mites to die.
The other really good thing about this method, the eggs die as well.

regards
John