Citrus Killer Bee x pastel Enchi

What's up everybody. I had a question about breeding a citrus killerbee to a regular pastel enchi. Will all of the pastel offspring be citrus? Or will I get a mix of regular pastel and citrus? It just dawned on me that I'm not using two citrus pastels. Please let me know thanks.

you will get a mix.

50% of the offspring will get one copy of pastel; these will all have the citrus pastel.

50% will be super pastels, and these will all be mixed, normal pastel and citrus pastel.

but it wouldnt bother me since its the same gene anyway, citrus pastel is just line-bred to be cleaner.

How do you have a killerbee and pastel enchi and not know how basic genetics work? I'm not saying this to be rude - I'm honestly wondering your progression through the hobby from intro owner to asking the question in the OP. It's somewhat eye opening to me to realize how different others' experiences in this hobby can be.

Punnet squares - they teach you them in high school biology. Is that a meaningless phrase?

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Originally Posted by Pythonfriend

citrus pastel is just line-bred to be cleaner.

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Sorry to break it to you, but you are 100% incorrect. Citrus Pastel is completely different from ANY other line of pastel. This has been proven for many, many years now.

Anyways...

OP... you will also produce Whiteouts from the Citrus Killerbee, if he actually does have Citrus in him. 50% of the Citrus Pastels and combos should be Whiteouts.

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Originally Posted by Coopers Constrictors

Sorry to break it to you, but you are 100% incorrect. Citrus Pastel is completely different from ANY other line of pastel. This has been proven for many, many years now.

Anyways...

OP... you will also produce Whiteouts from the Citrus Killerbee, if he actually does have Citrus in him. 50% of the Citrus Pastels and combos should be Whiteouts.

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oh, really? i thought it was just another redundant name for nice line-bred pastels. good to know. so a 4-gene super citrus + super pastel would be possible? or are they allelic?

From a mixed line of Super (i.e. Citrus Pastel x Grazi Pastel) yes... you would get half Citrus and half Grazi. Half of the Citrus will be Whiteouts... which makes things even more fun.

Can you explain the whiteout gene to me? I'm not trying to be a butt, but this is new to me. I've got a citrus firefly and his citrus pastel sister and I too thought they were the same as regular pastels. I've just never worked with the gene until now.

Okay thanks just wondering... And Mr. Lang you did come off rude. Don't worry about it. I like positive feedback. Mind your own experience.

Your comment came off very rude man. You need to mind your own business. This is supposed to be a positive website. With you being negative is not going to help anyone out. Yes I know how to use punnent squares. I usually use genetic wizard but it said that all the pastel offspring would come out citrus. I was just confirming and checking with the community.. You come off as a smart ass and nobody likes that... Maybe you can learn from this since your so smart. If somebody asks you a simple question. You give them a simple answer. You don't need to questions someone's intelligence just because you feel the need to reassure yourself that you are indeed smart. Just because I went out and bought some expensive morphs to start out, doesn't mean that you have to get jealous and assume everybody knows everything about the citrus gene.... I looks like other people are confused about it too judging by this thread. So just some food for thought.. I might have another question and I wouldn't want you to be rude to me again. So thanks Lang for your response. I don't think it helped out with the original question, but it definitely gave me the energy to write this... Peace Man

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Originally Posted by Coopers Constrictors

From a mixed line of Super (i.e. Citrus Pastel x Grazi Pastel) yes... you would get half Citrus and half Grazi. Half of the Citrus will be Whiteouts... which makes things even more fun.

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Sorry to break it to you, but that is false. The Citrus Pastel (as well as every other line of Pastel) is a line bred Pastel gene from that specific breeder. If you bred a Citrus Pastel to a Graziani Pastel, half would not be Grazi Pastel and the other half would be Citrus Pastel. You'd be mixing the both, which at that both, would not produce citrus or graziani pastel from that point on.

So with the Citrus gene, Amir, the producer of this Pastel line, got in a Pastel from Africa and line bred it to produce his own line of Pastels. Which he called the Citrus Pastel. Now when breeding out his Citrus Pastel's he noticed something funky going on which he called the Whiteout gene. This, to my knowledge, is not attached to EVERY Citrus out there. So to say that every Citrus produces whiteouts, is false.

So to the OP, when you mix Pastel lines, regardless of what line, you end up with nothing more than Pastel's and cannot market them as individual Pastel lines. You could, however, state what lines of Pastel they were bred from, which may appeal to some customers. But even then, though babies, would NOT produce Citrus or *other line* Pastels. It would be a combination of the two, with influences from both lines.

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Originally Posted by Pythonfriend

you will get a mix.

50% of the offspring will get one copy of pastel; these will all have the citrus pastel.

50% will be super pastels, and these will all be mixed, normal pastel and citrus pastel.

but it wouldnt bother me since its the same gene anyway, citrus pastel is just line-bred to be cleaner.

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Incorrect. Any and all pastels produced would be both pastel lines mixed up. Whether single gene, or super form, you cannot single out which is Citrus and which is not.

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Originally Posted by that_dc5

Incorrect. Any and all pastels produced would be both pastel lines mixed up. Whether single gene, or super form, you cannot single out which is Citrus and which is not.

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My post is based on the assumption that pastel and citrus pastel are different genes.

if this assumption is correct, my post is 100% correct. all offspring gets one copy of citrus pastel, because we are dealing with a super citrus pastel. half of the offspring will in addition get a copy of regular pastel. all offspring that got only one copy of pastel will be pure citrus pastel. i can single it out with straightforward punnet-square genetics.

my post is only incorrect if citrus pastel, strictly speaking, does not exist as a seperate gene but is only a product of line-breeding. In that case, delete all instances of "citrus" from my post, and again my post would be correct.

If you mix pastel lines, then the offspring would be mutt pastels.
Technically some pastels can be citrus and some would be a regular pastel because you don't know which parent is contributing the pastel gene. If the citrus parent passes on the citrus pastel gene in the single pastel gene snakes, the offspring would be a citrus pastel. If the other pastel parent passes on the pastel gene, that offspring will be a normal pastel. If you get any supers, both parents will contribute a pastel gene, thus making it not pure citrus. And can't call it citrus in my opinion. Only way to keep labeling citrus is to keep the citrus pastel line pure. Otherwise you're only muddying it up.

And whiteout is like NERD's fader.

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Originally Posted by jakedierr

Your comment came off very rude man. You need to mind your own business. This is supposed to be a positive website.

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Just to remind you that this is a public forum. People are free to say what they want as long as it doesn't violate the TOS. This is the internet and you're going to get positive and negative feedback whether you want it or not. If you can't handle both, then perhaps the internet is not the right place for you. My advice would be just to ignore it or learn from it.
Just my $.02.

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Originally Posted by satomi325

If you mix pastel lines, then the offspring would be mutt pastels.
Technically some pastels can be citrus and some would be a regular pastel because you don't know which parent is contributing the pastel gene. If the citrus parent passes on the citrus pastel gene in the single pastel gene snakes, the offspring would be a citrus pastel. If the other pastel parent passes on the pastel gene, that offspring will be a normal pastel. If you get any supers, both parents will contribute a pastel gene, thus making it not pure citrus.

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the devil is really deep in the details here. The thing is that the father is a super citrus pastel (citrus KILLER bee). That piece of information needs to be utilized here. so all offspring get one copy of citrus pastel. and if they only get one copy, it cannot be the normal pastel, it must be citrus. those that get the normal gene in addition to that will be mutt super pastels, half citrus half normal.

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Originally Posted by Pythonfriend

the devil is really deep in the details here. The thing is that the father is a super citrus pastel (citrus KILLER bee). That piece of information needs to be utilized here. so all offspring get one copy of citrus pastel. and if they only get one copy, it cannot be the normal pastel, it must be citrus. those that get the normal gene in addition to that will be mutt super pastels, half citrus half normal.

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I agree with you.
You are correct in thinking that the citrus killerbee will pass on the citrus gene to every offspring. I wasn't thinking about the homozygous citrus pastel. Just two snakes with two different pastel lines.

Ignore what I said previously about the regular pastel in the single pastel gene snakes. But I still stand by everything else mentioned.

Any supers will be mutts. Only the snakes that carry one pastel gene will be citrus.


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