Shedding in rack

So I have moved to a rack system. I used to have one ball in a cage that was heated with a CHE and used cypress mulch for substrate.

Now I have a rack and use paper towel as substrate. Cypress was just too humid. I was at 100%.

Now my humidity is always 50-65% and 70-80 during shed. I used to have perfect sheds with the cage and now I getting poor sheds in a rack that holds humidity better!? This is boggling mind. This last she'd wasn't bad but still I'm pieces and a couple patches stuck on.

Any thoughts? My temps are 78-90 and all humidity and temp readings are checked with multiple instruments to eliminate the possibility of false reading.

Any thoughts?


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Just add more humidity. (i.e. larger water dish over the hot spot or try the cypress mulch again)
Or you have too many air holes.

I've learned not to read humidity gauges and to go by my snakes' ability to shed. If they shed well, then my humidity is good. If they don't that means they need more humidity.

Yeah that is why I bumped up the humidity to 80-85 but any more and I get condensation. Maybe I didn't notice the shed cycle fast enough this time. I have another that is I the blue now so we'll see if her shed comes out ok.

I measure the humidity on the cool side of the 41 qt sere lite tub so maybe I will check the hot side. It may be lower than I realize. Thanks.


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I mist mine once a day when they're in shed. I don't always get them every single day but it results in nearly perfect sheds every time. I have mine in a rack on newspaper.

A bad shed isn't the end of the world it just means you need to make an adjustment. Paper towels don't hold humidity like mulch. You have a new set up so you need to make a few new adjustments, it will be fine and so will your snake. Satomi gave good advice.

What are you using go measure humidity?

What are you measuring the humidity with?

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Originally Posted by satomi325

Just add more humidity. (i.e. larger water dish over the hot spot or try the cypress mulch again)
Or you have too many air holes.

I've learned not to read humidity gauges and to go by my snakes' ability to shed. If they shed well, then my humidity is good. If they don't that means they need more humidity.

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very true! and who cares if you get condensation...I want condensation in my racks. condensation is only a bad thing when it starts to cause mold on something...and racks rarely get mold unless you are using something like different woods that will mold. I love to see condensation, as long as the enclosure is not wet and stagnant...I love to see it.

I hate seeing condensation. That usually means they pissed and/or crapped all over. Don't get me wrong, i love cleaning a dirty tub just as much as the next keeper, but i prefer clean ones. ;)

also crumble up some newspaper and put it in the tub, spray it down really good with a spray bottle and your problem is solved. I use this trick on all of my racks with paper type substrates, I always have condensation, and I always have perfect sheds. I either use packing paper or newspaper on my racks unless I am using coconut husk...I use paper though in my racks almost all the time. even when I use the white packing paper as the bottom layer and substrate, I always have crumpled up newspaper. I only have to spray every two or three days to re~moisten the newspaper. works awesome.

Im not aiming this at anyone. Just in general..

There can be humidity without condensation.

Condensation usually just means the outside room temp is significantly colder than inside the tub. Like condensation on your house windows in the winter. Or your cold drink in room temp. It means that water has turned from gas to liquid, which is too much moisture for a ball python in my personal opinion. Or as mike said, they peed/pood.

Anyway, as long as there is no standing moisture on the substrate or on the enclosure sides, its OK. But I personally hate seeing condensation.

You can remedy condensation by warming up the room to match the enclosure. Or vice versa. As well as have more air circulation in the room.

I do like the newspaper idea. Its similar to the moss in a humid hide method.

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Well said Satomi. I agree with Mike though, when I see condensation, it's because one of them has left a nice warm poop in there for me to clean (which seems to also make it warmer than the surrounding air, thus the condensation). Or even better, pooped in their water bowl (looking at you Little Dude!).

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Originally Posted by rickm

very true! and who cares if you get condensation...I want condensation in my racks. condensation is only a bad thing when it starts to cause mold on something...and racks rarely get mold unless you are using something like different woods that will mold. I love to see condensation, as long as the enclosure is not wet and stagnant...I love to see it.

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You should definitely get some knowledge before you start saying things that you know nothing about. Condensation is most cases is a sure sign your humidity is higher than it should be and I'm talking about past the 70's. There are numerous things that can go wrong because of this.

EDIT:
I'm not saying always because as others have pointed out it could be because of the bathroom.

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Originally Posted by whispersinmyhead

So I have moved to a rack system. I used to have one ball in a cage that was heated with a CHE and used cypress mulch for substrate.

Now I have a rack and use paper towel as substrate. Cypress was just too humid. I was at 100%.

Now my humidity is always 50-65% and 70-80 during shed. I used to have perfect sheds with the cage and now I getting poor sheds in a rack that holds humidity better!? This is boggling mind. This last she'd wasn't bad but still I'm pieces and a couple patches stuck on.

Any thoughts? My temps are 78-90 and all humidity and temp readings are checked with multiple instruments to eliminate the possibility of false reading.

Any thoughts?


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I'm thinking of a possible reason but before I say anything can I see a picture of the tub, with everything in it? That way I can rule out what I'm thinking.

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Originally Posted by West Coast Jungle

What are you using go measure humidity?

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I using indoor/outdoor hygrometers. I have 6 of them. One for each tub but also used a couple in the tub at the same time to make sure they were close. Temps are really close if not exact and humidity is within 5% of each other. I like these so I can keep am eye on ambient temps.

I use a temp gun to check surface temps.


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Originally Posted by Neal

I'm thinking of a possible reason but before I say anything can I see a picture of the tub, with everything in it? That way I can rule out what I'm thinking.

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http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/30/a4yte5ev.jpg


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I guess I should point out that I have ha. A couple perfect sheds but also a couple that great. Not terrible but in pieces and a few stuck pieces left on. One stuck eye cap which I removed by soaking.

My old cage was a 4'x2'x2'. Cypress worked well for holding the humidity. I can't use cypress in the tubs because it is just too humid. Aspen was ok but I think the paper is best.

Like many have said I need to adjust things obviously. It close but just want to fine tune my setup. I really appreciate all the advise. I really like the crumpled news paper idea. Also I have been spraying my other girl who is in shed every day. Next time I will try the crumpled moist news paper and see if that helps.

The nit change between my old setup and the new one is the substrate because all the humidity and temps are the same. It is easier to hold the humidity as well in the tubs. But the substrate is bone dry so may be the snake isn't absorbing moisture and needs that help from misting and/or crumpled news paper.

Thanks again everyone. As usual friendly advise.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

I love cleaning a dirty tub

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I have 100+,when are you available?

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

I hate seeing condensation. That usually means they pissed and/or crapped all over. Don't get me wrong, i love cleaning a dirty tub just as much as the next keeper, but i prefer clean ones. ;)

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only if your humidity is too low in the beginning. I have some condensation in all of my tubs within about two hours after cleaning my tubs. condensation is caused by humidity. after keeping for over 26 years, I have yet to see condensation cause any negative affects. don't get me wrong, you don't want your enclosures wet, but I don't see how you get your humidity anywhere near 70 percent without a little condensation. I have seen so many people who cannot get their ball pythons to eat with too low of a humidity. also, the ONLY time that condensation or humidity are going to cause any respiratory infections, are when the temperatures are too low. I got a 'reputation warning' for giving 'bad advice' by saying that condensation is okay...and after almost thirty years of keeping many different species, I have never...NOT ONE TIME seen condensation cause any issues. so who ever wants to pass out 'reputation warnings' needs to KNOW what they are talking about before giving a warning on something that is NOT BAD ADVISE. THE ONLY TIME condensation is bad, is when there is too much humidity or the temps are too cold. other than that, it is NOT an issue. I have takin in balls that would not eat, and after a few days in my 'bad conditions' they were eating like champs...so maybe I do know what I am talking about:O

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Originally Posted by satomi325

Im not aiming this at anyone. Just in general..There can be humidity without condensation.Condensation usually just means the outside room temp is significantly colder than inside the tub. Like condensation on your house windows in the winter. Or your cold drink in room temp. It means that water has turned from gas to liquid, which is too much moisture for a ball python in my personal opinion. Or as mike said, they peed/pood.Anyway, as long as there is no standing moisture on the substrate or on the enclosure sides, its OK. But I personally hate seeing condensation. You can remedy condensation by warming up the room to match the enclosure. Or vice versa. As well as have more air circulation in the room. I do like the newspaper idea. Its similar to the moss in a humid hide method.Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Neal

You should definitely get some knowledge before you start saying things that you know nothing about. Condensation is most cases is a sure sign your humidity is higher than it should be and I'm talking about past the 70's. There are numerous things that can go wrong because of this.

EDIT:
I'm not saying always because as others have pointed out it could be because of the bathroom.

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lmao, 'get some knowledge'...that is funny neal, I have been keeping probably longer than you have been alive. who knows maybe not, but I have helped zoos, and also helped some pretty experienced breeders. I bred green tree pythons when I was seventeen, when at the time most people could not even keep them alive, so I suggest you know a little about somebody before running your mouth...at least being a keyboard cowboy like so many others. I know what I know from many years of keeping reptiles and some of them very difficult species. I would never put information out that that is knowingly incorrect or that would cause someone to wrongly set their animals up. I know that I have never had an issue with ball pythons by having a little condensation. I also know that the three newest rivals were previously never on frozen thawed rodents, and would not even look twice at them...but after a week of settling into my set ups, they all three took frozen thawed for me every time I have offered, within seconds of being introduced...so I must have 'some knowledge'. and I remember less than two days ago you told someone "NOT to use ground coconut fiber for ball pythons because it was bad"....so maybe you are the one who should attain a little knowledge.....just sayin

The only issue I have with condensation was using cypress mulch it was making my melamine bubble because humidity was 100%. I don't have a reptile room which does make this setup a challenge and. I know this. So I can't put a million holes and let all my heat escape. I believe it is minor tweak I need. I mist or just spill a little water from the bowl to bump up my humidity during shed and I get a little condensation that dissipates with in an hour or two and my humidity is around 75% or 80% at that point. But maybe it is dropping down to 50-60 %too fast to help them shed a little better.

The only real bad shed I have had was when we ran ceiling fans in the room and of course forgetting it would drop humidity and that was my fault.

I thank you all again for the advise and like I said some minor tweaks to try are the moist newspaper am misting the snakes daily during shed. I will try both on individual snakes to start next time and see what works fort setup. I just can't have an over abundance of condensation because the melamine will fall apart when totally wet. A little won't hurt. I do a clean almost weekly am water bowl 2-3 times a week. So mould should t become am issue at all.



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Quote:

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Originally Posted by rickm

lmao, 'get some knowledge'...that is funny neal, I have been keeping probably longer than you have been alive. who knows maybe not, but I have helped zoos, and also helped some pretty experienced breeders. I bred green tree pythons when I was seventeen, when at the time most people could not even keep them alive, so I suggest you know a little about somebody before running your mouth...at least being a keyboard cowboy like so many others. I know what I know from many years of keeping reptiles and some of them very difficult species. I would never put information out that that is knowingly incorrect or that would cause someone to wrongly set their animals up. I know that I have never had an issue with ball pythons by having a little condensation. I also know that the three newest rivals were previously never on frozen thawed rodents, and would not even look twice at them...but after a week of settling into my set ups, they all three took frozen thawed for me every time I have offered, within seconds of being introduced...so I must have 'some knowledge'. and I remember less than two days ago you told someone "NOT to use ground coconut fiber for ball pythons because it was bad"....so maybe you are the one who should attain a little knowledge.....just sayin

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Just because you've been keeping for a set amount of time means little to nothing. You're proving that by the way you talk.

Also if you'd go back and read taht thread I responded about that, but you see I don't always use the forums so I only happen to run across that post by chance and I gave you a very good reason not to use it since you said it has 0 reasons. I could easily call you on out a lot of things that you say, and use the little wise crack posts you make but I don't because I don't want to make you look totally stupid.

I've got more experience with eco earth then you do and there is a reason that a lot of people don't use it. Try again.

EDIT:
I mean specifically your post where you tried to call me out with your ignorant context, when you post stuff like you did regarding humidity which prove you apparently know little to nothing. Who can't help Zoos? It's called volunteering. My niece does it and knows little about snakes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by whispersinmyhead

The only issue I have with condensation was using cypress mulch it was making my melamine bubble because humidity was 100%. I don't have a reptile room which does make this setup a challenge and. I know this. So I can't put a million holes and let all my heat escape. I believe it is minor tweak I need. I mist or just spill a little water from the bowl to bump up my humidity during shed and I get a little condensation that dissipates with in an hour or two and my humidity is around 75% or 80% at that point. But maybe it is dropping down to 50-60 %too fast to help them shed a little better.

The only real bad shed I have had was when we ran ceiling fans in the room and of course forgetting it would drop humidity and that was my fault.

I thank you all again for the advise and like I said some minor tweaks to try are the moist newspaper am misting the snakes daily during shed. I will try both on individual snakes to start next time and see what works fort setup. I just can't have an over abundance of condensation because the melamine will fall apart when totally wet. A little won't hurt. I do a clean almost weekly am water bowl 2-3 times a week. So mould should t become am issue at all.



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I think the key here is that they're in a cooler room (since you say not a reptile room), so you would expect a bit of condensation in the tubs if they're more humid. What about adding a little plastic box, with a lid (so the snakes can't spill the contents all over), poked full of holes, and then filled with damp cypress or sphagnum to each tub? Something like that that's mold resistant but will add humidity at a more even rate than spraying.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Badgemash

I think the key here is that they're in a cooler room (since you say not a reptile room), so you would expect a bit of condensation in the tubs if they're more humid. What about adding a little plastic box, with a lid (so the snakes can't spill the contents all over), poked full of holes, and then filled with damp cypress or sphagnum to each tub? Something like that that's mold resistant but will add humidity at a more even rate than spraying.

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I get up to 80% without condensation right now because the room is 75-79f. But just started measuring at the back of the tub where the heat and snakes spend most of there time and when it is 80 up front it is only 60 at the back! So there aren't getting the humidity they need where they are spending there time. I was always told to measure from the cool side.

A humidity box at the rear will probably solve this problem!

I also just found another hygrometer of a different brand to try just incase these are all off. They all seem to be within 3% of each other but I know hygrometers can be off by lots. They all could be way off though I think they are close.

I will keep spraying daily at the rear of the tub during this shed cycle and see if that helps. My snakes only come to the cool side a few times a day and then they are in the middle or in their hide on the warm spot. So they aren't getting the access to the humidity they need. I am sure this is the cause.

Thanks for your patience through all of this. I will conduct more tests on all the tubs to see if this theory pans out.


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Well. This last snake that was shedding I started spraying once a day just to give her that bump in humidity. I would spray her and the paper towel a bit and put the hide back on. Perfect shed. I am very relieved to have found out what this little issue is. My humidity is off by about 10% at the back of the tubs and that seems to be enough to cause sheds to go poorly.

Thanks again everyone.


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bad sheds will happen, nothing you can do about it .. I have 1 tub free just to fix this .. i put about 6 paper towels one on top of the other and pour water in there - not too much though, you don't want a pool of water in there .. I move the snake that shed badly in there and in an hour or so she will peel off the dead scales .. then I move her back to her tub :) worked every time for me
regards, Andrej