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Scaleless bp

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  • 09-25-2013, 08:53 PM
    tblancs
    Scaleless bp
    Seeing how bhb produced the scaleless. What impact do you guys think this will have?


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  • 09-25-2013, 08:57 PM
    Mephibosheth1
    I think they won't last.


    Scales are to reptiles what epithelium is to humans; without it they will be much more vulnerable to diseases and to parasites. I honestly hope that they don't last; this is something I think shouldn't progress further.
  • 09-25-2013, 08:59 PM
    kat_black181
    Re: Scaleless bp
    I think the project is cool and all, but I didn't get as excited about it as a lot of other people.

    For one simple reason: I LIKE scales on my reptiles. I think it's the coolest thing about them. It's part of what makes them a reptile.
  • 09-25-2013, 10:12 PM
    Tribal
    I am holding my judgement on this project for now. I think time and more information is needed to determine what type of impact this will have. Acouple of pics of the snake in the egg is not enough to base a strong opinion. Just my thoughts.
  • 09-25-2013, 10:41 PM
    Stewart_Reptiles
    If health is not an issue and those are hardy and problem free, think of the possibilities, every mutation you know available in the scaleless version :O :gj:.

    I think scaleless ratsnake are pretty cool, I am just not much into rat snake, but BP why not, time will tell.
  • 09-25-2013, 10:45 PM
    Xaila
    Despite me frequently defending this project over the last week, I...actually am not the biggest fan of scaleless snakes, purely for aesthetic reasons. I do think these will look badass with any of the big pattern-changing morphs like Pied, Clown, etc. I think it'll be kind of a niche market, but definitely huge.
  • 09-27-2013, 03:03 AM
    Rawbbeh
    I think that there will be some really neat stuff produced through them. Of course it will be a good 2 years at least before we start seeing ANYTHING made. I do hope the babies survive and are thriving as they are still living creatures. I can only imagine a cinnamon skinner or a spider skinner or even a banana peel ball python!
  • 09-27-2013, 03:05 AM
    Neal
    I just couldn't justify doing it myself. I'll keep track of where the project goes though.
  • 09-27-2013, 03:38 AM
    Archimedes
    Not worth it to me. Kinda cool, but it does open a lot of doors, not all of them good. I, like other people, hypothesize about potential health issues. That's a full layer of highly defensive skin gone. As far as we know, the scaleless heads haven't had too many issues, and obviously lived long enough to breed, but these supers have a heck of a lot more body exposed. BHB is a huge facility with a lot of quarantine capability, but if any of these get into the hands of casual hobbyists (obviously not for awhile, but this is forward thinking here), it could be disaster for a collection, depending on if it has any number of unknown pathogens hitching a ride.

    I dunno. Mixed feelings. It's these types of mutations that make me start thinking bioethics.

    EDIT: and that's absolutely not knocking Brian's work on this project, anyone who watches that Snakebytes video can see that this is way more than a science experiment for him, this was done out of pure passion and curiosity of the species. And really crazy-interesting to boot. I just have personal feelings about the possibility of this morph going viral in the hobby.

    Sent from my cool hide
  • 09-27-2013, 06:26 AM
    Mr Oni
    Xaila- have you ever seen a Corn without scales? Even a wild type looks awesome because the color and pattern isnt covered by scales...so yes...BPs should be very cool looking.

    Ethics? Brian is the guy you want on this project cause he cares about this stuff.
    People still bred ratsnakes, corns and leatherback beardies.
    What about hairless rats, proven they live less and have health issues but yet they are still going strong.

    Do we know it doesnt have heat pits? Or that its fragile or any other atuff that its like the Derma? Looks at other scaleless animals and see how they are doing.

    People used to go on about Albinos too.
  • 09-27-2013, 07:10 AM
    Pythonfriend
    we need to wait and see how they look out of the egg and after the 1st shed.

    scaleless corn snakes and scaleless texas rat snakes dont seem to have any health issues at all, no special husbandry needs, and they shed in one piece, and they maintain their belly scales.

    if the scaleless BPs maintain their heat pits and belly scales and shed well, that would be optimal, and they surely will take the market by storm.

    about the optics: they do look awesome. the scale structure pixelates everything to a degree. so even basic morphs like a scaleless pinstripe will look new and different.

    and (if they turn out healthy) it will be really easy to work with them, because its not a recessive and the heterozygous scaleless head BPs are visual and easy to spot.

    im really excited and waiting for news and updates.
  • 09-27-2013, 07:19 AM
    Pythonfriend
    BTW, reptile breeding is still very ethical compared to whats going on in dog breeding.

    when issues with certain morphs show up, most breeders actually avoid them.

    people avoid and work around risky super forms, people dont breed female deserts, some even stay away from the spider gene because of the wobble.

    compare that to:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9jROjFPAis really really nasty stuff.
  • 09-27-2013, 07:32 AM
    Roman0906
    Wrinkled like my grandmother, I think it's a torment breed and one should not support it. What if a rat bites when feeding the animal? Then you have the greatest of all time Piercing

    I can not imagine that this is healthy

    I hope it will not prevail.

    The drawing on the animals but looks very good - unfortunately. Therefore, I fear it will be many buyers for it.
  • 09-27-2013, 09:10 AM
    trevo
    I think it's a great project. If it weren't for these kind of changes in genes of animals we wouldn't have over half the dog breeds that are available today. If it proves to be a problematic idea then move on, but the possibility of it being problematic isn't enough to justify not trying.
  • 09-27-2013, 01:26 PM
    PiercingPrincess
    Re: Scaleless bp
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mephibosheth1 View Post
    I think they won't last.


    Scales are to reptiles what epithelium is to humans; without it they will be much more vulnerable to diseases and to parasites. I honestly hope that they don't last; this is something I think shouldn't progress further.

    I very much agree. His scaleless corns are still a fairly new project, and I haven't even really heard people talking about them much.. I doubt they will last either. I thought it looked kinda ugly in the egg.. I can only imagine what issues its going to have out of the egg..
  • 09-27-2013, 01:32 PM
    PiercingPrincess
    Re: Scaleless bp
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Pythonfriend View Post
    BTW, reptile breeding is still very ethical compared to whats going on in dog breeding.

    when issues with certain morphs show up, most breeders actually avoid them.

    people avoid and work around risky super forms, people dont breed female deserts, some even stay away from the spider gene because of the wobble.

    compare that to:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9jROjFPAis really really nasty stuff.

    I think the issue is MOST breeders avoid them, not all. Some still continue to make it work and try to figure out how to.. But at what cost? People do, and have bread desert females, it was only this year that one laid and had a successful clutch which is cool, but how many animals were put at risk for those few babies?
  • 09-27-2013, 01:43 PM
    AlexisFitzy
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rawbbeh View Post
    I can only imagine a cinnamon skinner or a spider skinner or even a banana peel ball python!

    Lolz banana peel ball python! How perfect xD


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  • 09-27-2013, 11:07 PM
    Pythonfriend
    NEWS FLASH !!!!!!

    two pieces of news:

    - Brian from BHB commented somewhere that they do have belly scales and heat pits. i have not uncovered the source yet, someone just quoted the comment in a different thread. that would be big news, it would mean they could be just as healthy as regular BPs.

    - Mike Wilbanks purchased the first scaleless head / het scaleless BP that BHB ever sold, for an undisclosed amount in the 6 digits. Here i have a source, different thread in this forum: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...-for-6-figures!

    I would be a bit surprised if more scaleless heads are sold before next breeding season. I think BHB does not have many right now and will want to produce more fully scaleless ones and get the scaleless head into combos to build a decent breeding stock.

    about the issue raised earlier of germs getting into the skin easier: i would just compare a regular shed to a scaleless shed. to my knowledge, there does not seem to be much of a difference in thickness. and snakes with scales have very thin skin between the scales anyway. its something to watch long-term, but i guess it will be fine.

    with these news im quite excited. i want to see decent pictures of their heads.


    Edit: Banana peel is really a ridiculous naming idea, i also like skinner bee :rofl:
  • 09-27-2013, 11:32 PM
    Artemille
    Re: Scaleless bp
    A friend of mine who works there had this image:
    http://i43.tinypic.com/50kymg.jpg

    Also, I heard that Mike Wilbanks bought three scaleless head ball pythons for around $60-70k each, and is thinking of getting more because he wants to have the biggest stake in the project.
  • 09-28-2013, 12:29 AM
    Pythonfriend
    wow, the image is awesome.

    thats what i meant when i say: scales pixelate everything.

    also thanks for the info on what Mike Wikbanks exactly purchased. the price almost seems a bit low; but then Brian did purchase big stuff from Mike before, i think there is some history and they trust each other.

    about the picture, just look at these pattern outlines, and thats just a normal.
  • 09-28-2013, 01:46 AM
    B.O.S Reptiles
    Re: Scaleless bp
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Roman0906 View Post
    What if a rat bites when feeding the animal?

    Then you shouldn't have fed live...
  • 09-28-2013, 02:38 AM
    Expensive hobby
    I feel ethically it's wrong. If it's a personal project, it's still questionable but ok, whatever. If it is being done so they can go to market, not ok.

    Messing with paint jobs is one thing, but selectively breeding a snake to not have its full anatomy is wrong.

    I feel this May turn out like silky Beardies. In that case, you take an animal that requires UV light, but that same light damages their now delicate susceptible skin.

    You can't tell me that just having belly scales and heat pits are the only things to consider when determining if it will be a "problem free" project.


    Sent From an Enclosure
  • 09-28-2013, 03:12 AM
    Mr Oni
    Again, you few do know that other scaleless animals do just fine right?

    What about hairless animals?

    "Ethics"? They arent growing internal organs on the outside of the body or making 5 heads.
  • 09-28-2013, 03:15 AM
    Pythonfriend
    about rat bites:

    rats can easily bite through wood or bone. who in their right mind can believe that the soft scales of a BP protect against a rat bite?

    the nastiest possible injuries are when a rat manages to damage the jaw or skull of the snake. Do you think this will change without the "protection" of scales, really?

    I would like to point out that there are no issues with scaleles corn snakes and scaleless texas rat snakes. Scaleless beardeds are problematic, but i say thats apples to oranges, bearded dragons with scales have quite extreme scales, also they have legs.

    i indeed do believe that if the belly scales and heat pits are fine, they will be just as perfect as scaleless texas rats and scaleless corns. no diference in husbandry. We will see.
  • 09-28-2013, 11:18 AM
    Stewart_Reptiles
    We are talking about Scaleless BP and not having a general live vs f/t debate therefore a little clean up was done, for those wishing to continue the live f/t debate you can do so here http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ng-Live-Debate
  • 09-28-2013, 12:21 PM
    cory9oh4
    Are there any picture of the snakes out of egg yet?
  • 09-28-2013, 12:23 PM
    MorphMaster
    I think it's really cool; although, it isn't for a ball python. Ball Pythons are finicky eaters, and if it requires live, then it doesn't have that sheet of armor to protect and claws or teeth; nevertheless, it is cool and I hope it works out, but i don't see it.
  • 09-28-2013, 12:27 PM
    sho220
    It's neat in a freak-of-nature kind of way, but I would imagine it will remain a niche project...I personally prefer my snakes with scales but I'll definitely be interested in seeing scaleless morphs...in person would be even better than pics...
  • 09-28-2013, 02:00 PM
    Pythonfriend
    i think, if they turn out nice and healthy, it will turn into quite a mainstream recessive project.

    like albino or axanthic or clown, some people work with it, some dont. some like it, some dont.

    maybe some people will have the scaleless head gene floating around in their combos and dont themselves go for the scaleless?
  • 09-28-2013, 06:47 PM
    Jessiefish
    Re: Scaleless bp
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MorphMaster View Post
    I think it's really cool; although, it isn't for a ball python. Ball Pythons are finicky eaters, and if it requires live, then it doesn't have that sheet of armor to protect and claws or teeth; nevertheless, it is cool and I hope it works out, but i don't see it.

    This! I've just had to give in to a finicky normal hatchling, and I couldn't imagine the potential damage to a little scaleless BP.

    I think Brian needs to quit with the obsession of being "FIRST" and chill out. It's starting to come across like megalomania rather than actual passion for the hobby. Every episode of SnakeBytes lately it's like, "I spent THIS much on this animal!" ... "Look at what I produced (and then will charge thousands for)!" ... But it's all about the animals, right, not the $$$?
  • 09-28-2013, 07:40 PM
    satomi325
    I'll admit that I do want to touch one to see how smooth and soft the snake is, but I don't really agree with breeding for scaleless. Snakes evolved for millions of years to have scales. They're there for a reason and protection.
    I know captivity is relatively safe compared to the wild, but that's just my opinion.
  • 09-28-2013, 07:56 PM
    Artemisace
    I'm probably going to catch hate for this and I really don't care if I do, but how many of you bashing Brian actually watched the episode where he cut the egg? He had tears in his eyes he was so happy to see these little baby scaleless balls. I really doubt anyone doing this strictly for the MONEY would react that way and I mean look at the rest of the hobby. If someone has a cool and unique snake that they prove out to be dom or co-dom isn't it a natural thing to wonder if it has a super? I think scaleless snakes are cool I don't know that ever own one as they are WAY out of my price range right now, but maybe when they are more abundant and cheaper I'll consider getting one. Brian seems to me to be a real stand up guy who loves his animals very dearly, just because he's proud enough to say how much he spent on an animal I don't think he's being big headed I think he's just saying it so we know how much he loves these awesome scaly creatures. Anyway I'm done for now, hate on me for this all you want, I really could care less.
  • 09-28-2013, 08:01 PM
    meowmeowkazoo
    I worry about the health of these snakes. I worry they will be more susceptible to burns, that they will have shedding issues, and possibly respiratory issues. I wonder how much damage things like mites will do to them vs regular snakes, and if they will experience skin irritation from substrates like aspen. They might also have issues thermoregulating, depending on how much having scales enables them to retain heat/cold.

    At the very least I think they will help us learn more about how regular ball pythons utilize their scales.
  • 09-28-2013, 09:17 PM
    Jessiefish
    Re: Scaleless bp
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Artemisace View Post
    I'm probably going to catch hate for this and I really don't care if I do, but how many of you bashing Brian actually watched the episode where he cut the egg? He had tears in his eyes he was so happy to see these little baby scaleless balls. I really doubt anyone doing this strictly for the MONEY would react that way and I mean look at the rest of the hobby. If someone has a cool and unique snake that they prove out to be dom or co-dom isn't it a natural thing to wonder if it has a super? I think scaleless snakes are cool I don't know that ever own one as they are WAY out of my price range right now, but maybe when they are more abundant and cheaper I'll consider getting one. Brian seems to me to be a real stand up guy who loves his animals very dearly, just because he's proud enough to say how much he spent on an animal I don't think he's being big headed I think he's just saying it so we know how much he loves these awesome scaly creatures. Anyway I'm done for now, hate on me for this all you want, I really could care less.

    No hate here, I respect that you have a different opinion. I actually did watch the episode. Again, it was him being "first." I love the different morphs, don't get me wrong (Sunset BP? Yes, please...), but he kinda takes it to extremes. And I get that you have to invest in a business to make money, but I don't need to specifically know how many thousands of dollars he can pay for a snake.

    I just got a snake from him with mites, too, which is fueling my opinion further... I am not seeing how that's loving his animals dearly, or respecting a customer or their collection. (Yes, QT and all, but still -- accidents can happen.)
  • 09-28-2013, 10:18 PM
    Pythonfriend
    Re: Scaleless bp
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by meowmeowkazoo View Post
    I worry about the health of these snakes. I worry they will be more susceptible to burns, that they will have shedding issues, and possibly respiratory issues. I wonder how much damage things like mites will do to them vs regular snakes, and if they will experience skin irritation from substrates like aspen. They might also have issues thermoregulating, depending on how much having scales enables them to retain heat/cold.

    At the very least I think they will help us learn more about how regular ball pythons utilize their scales.

    im sorry i dont see most of the issues.

    the skin will be a bit more vulnerable, but scaled BPs have exactly the same vulnerable skin between all their scales. i dont think bedding can hurt their skin.

    maybe they will be a bit more susceptible to burns, maybe not.

    if they are like scaleless corns or scaleless texas rats, there wont be shedding issues, they just shed in one piece in the normal cycle. i dont see how RI is related.

    mites like to suck between the scales and to hide under the scales. on a scaleless they can suck everywhere but cannot hide under the scales.

    thermoregulating.... remotely possible, but i doubt it. in scaled BPs there is blood circulation in the scales and they are covered with skin, so i see not much of a heat insulating purpose.

    ball pythons utilize their scales for movement, for that the belly scales are most important. But then, these scaleless BPs retain their belly scales, so for climbing and crawling i dont see much of a difference. crawling through a small crevace may be harder for a scaleless. i think if the belly scales would be gone, then a scaleless BP would have a problem, that would be an issue for the morph, a big one.

    fortunately i first heared that brian disclosed in a comment somewhere that the heat pits and belly scales are fine, and later i heared that Mike Wilbanks made a purchase, which kinda confirms it to me. i am also thrilled to hear that the heat pits are fine; this means the deme ball was a singularity, in the deme the heat pits were not functional and belly scales also impaired and it had some random scales scattered over the body.


    i think Brian got really, really lucky and uncovered a variety of scaleless similar to scaleless texas rats and scaleless corns. these require no special husbandry and their body shows no loss in function and they retain their belly scales and some scales on the head. its no freak like the deme ball, and yes i say it and mean it: this was a freak, and if BHB scaleless would be like that, the morph would have no chance.

    heat pits are important, eye caps are important, belly scales are important, the scales around the cloaca are important. i have good hopes that this morph only takes away the least important scales, the small ones covering the sides and top of the body.

    of course we need to wait for more pictures and the first shed, but i am hopeful.

    And when people talk down Brian, i sometimes think its jealousy speaking. he is not a greedy guy. Yes he has a reputation of always having the money to be the first to buy into any new project, and in many cases he is the first to buy. And yes his company is very big and he is CEO. But i do not think that he is a greedy guy and that its about the money for him. Money, for him, is a tool that allows him to do what he wants to do. He has a collection of somewhere between 10000 and 20000 animals, which requires employees to be maintained. some guesstimates, i think setting up a facility like his takes maybe half a million dollars (guessing, i may be too low or too high). running costs, including employees, food, electricity, maintenance, maybe between 50k and 150k per month. But i think he is just living his hobby large and living his dream. I really think first and second are, in no particular order, his obsession with reptiles and his ambition to advance and transform the hobby and the reptile business. Money comes in third, its the enabler. Money is what keeps it all alive, quite literally. I heared him explain how deeply he cares about wild animals and wild reptiles, and that he wants to undermine the market for wild-caught reptiles by breeding reptiles in quality and quantity. An albino or pied BP, or a scaleless BP for that matter, wont put pressure on the wild population because you simply do not find them in nature. Also look at the diversity of species he works with, if it would be all about the money he would cut it down to the ones that turn a profit. I think he really cares and that money is just a tool for him, but his plan is much larger than that and not just to make money.
  • 09-28-2013, 10:21 PM
    Louie
    Re: Scaleless bp
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Deborah View Post
    If health is not an issue and those are hardy and problem free, think of the possibilities, every mutation you know available in the scaleless version :O :gj:.

    I think scaleless ratsnake are pretty cool, I am just not much into rat snake, but BP why not, time will tell.

    That is just crazy idea hahahah all morphs in scaless but I am just wondering how can snake be scaless without a cost.. that is just sketchy. I hope poor snake wont get hurt. I would love to see it though:D

    "Snakes don't bite. Just humans."
  • 09-28-2013, 11:18 PM
    Jbuhrmester1
    Re: Scaleless bp
    Brian has been in the business for a long time and he already has scaleless snakes. I cannot remember the species he is working with, but he has experience so I feel as if he knows what hes doing.
  • 09-29-2013, 06:26 PM
    Artemisace
    Re: Scaleless bp
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Jessiefish View Post
    No hate here, I respect that you have a different opinion. I actually did watch the episode. Again, it was him being "first." I love the different morphs, don't get me wrong (Sunset BP? Yes, please...), but he kinda takes it to extremes. And I get that you have to invest in a business to make money, but I don't need to specifically know how many thousands of dollars he can pay for a snake.

    I just got a snake from him with mites, too, which is fueling my opinion further... I am not seeing how that's loving his animals dearly, or respecting a customer or their collection. (Yes, QT and all, but still -- accidents can happen.)

    Glad to not catch any hate, bit of a relief in all honesty, but anyway I can see your point. I would be ticked if I got a snake from someone and it had mites. Well as a matter of fact I did get mites from a shop, but they were on the rats I was feeding my ball. Stopped buying rats from there took care of the mite issue and they haven't been back so, yeah I kinda know what that's like. Anyway, while I don't really want to hear how much he has spent on his animals. Sometimes it's interesting to know. I agree on sunsets they are beautiful animals by the way. But if nothing else I think Brian is the best option out there for handling this project and I can't wait to see where it goes. I want to know what the morph does to other morphs. I'd like to see a pastel or a pinstripe scaleless I think that would be cool.
  • 10-05-2013, 02:11 PM
    Jessiefish
    A full picture leaked (posted on FB). They do not have heat pits. Kinda interesting.
  • 10-05-2013, 02:19 PM
    Artemisace
    Re: Scaleless bp
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Jessiefish View Post
    A full picture leaked (posted on FB). They do not have heat pits. Kinda interesting.

    BHB posted a pic on their instagram yesterday so I don't think it's a leak. They don't appear to have heat pits, but I read a comment somewhere, I think it was on youtube, that Brian was saying they do have heat pits. They are just harder to see since there are no scales marking where they are.
  • 10-05-2013, 02:31 PM
    Kodieh
    Re: Scaleless bp
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Artemisace View Post
    BHB posted a pic on their instagram yesterday so I don't think it's a leak. They don't appear to have heat pits, but I read a comment somewhere, I think it was on youtube, that Brian was saying they do have heat pits. They are just harder to see since there are no scales marking where they are.

    Brian on Facebook called it a "leak", as he wanted it to come out when the article or interview were released. So, I guess an employee could have done it. Or, Brian wanted to hype it.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 4
  • 10-05-2013, 02:35 PM
    Artemisace
    "leak" huh, maybe they are hyping it a bit, or something along those lines. Either way, I think they're cute little things and I can't wait to see him do a video about them.
  • 10-05-2013, 09:34 PM
    jwill226
    I'm not sure how I feel about scaleless but to all the people that don't like them I would remind you that there was a time that people viewed breeding albinos as wrong. Like albinos the scaleless would have a hard time surviving in nature. You need to remember that the scaleless and most albinos wont be surviving in nature. They will be thriving in someones collection. As long as people can learn what it takes to keep them healthy I see nothing wrong with it.

    There are plenty of morphs out there that I doubt would make it in nature due to their coloring. An ivory or a pied (I'm sure there are others) wouldn't blend into their surroundings as well making them easy targets for predators just like the albino. So should we not breed those either? To take it a step further I think most people on this forum live in an area where the BP all together wouldn't thrive. So should those people not be allowed to keep them?

    As far as me wanting one or not even if I did there is no way I could afford one any time in the near future so I wont worry about it. I would think most people buy expensive morphs because they like the beauty of that morph. I think most breeders breed what they find to be appealing to them first then for money second. So I say let the people that like the beauty of scaleless have what they want. No one is making you buy them or forcing you to use the scaleless gene in your future projects.
  • 06-02-2014, 09:32 PM
    HQexotics
    Re: Scaleless bp
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tblancs View Post
    Seeing how bhb produced the scaleless. What impact do you guys think this will have?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

    I JUST saw the video and how it exists now! I didnt even know about the scaleless heads! THIS IS AMAZING!!!! A SCALELESS BALL PYTHON! OMG OMG OMG Brian is really making the money now XD THIS CHANGES THE BALL PYTHON TRADE COMPLETELY! Its my dream to produce something this amazing in my life. :))
  • 06-02-2014, 10:12 PM
    Pythonfriend
    yes, i want to add that they are really amazing. scaleless BPs are amazing :D

    but there are no news, i got no news on new scaleless being hatched (i think two scaleless exist at BHB and thats it on the planet), and no news on new scaleless heads hatching.

    this is potentially a zombie thread, i mean, it depends, is there anything new?
  • 06-02-2014, 11:17 PM
    Zombree
    Re: Scaleless bp
    I really love my scales. They are smooth, they are shiny looking and they are natural feeling and sort of have that taboo aggressive looking touch- at least to the people who don't know snakes very well. I love Brian B. a lot and BHB. But I have seen older scaleless adults and I don't think they are nearly as impressive as fully scaled adult comparatives. I think it was a break in history, yes. I think he deserves tons of kudos, yes. But I will never want one, I don't think or breed them. But it was a very big feat. So I will give him that.
    As far as disease and what not, I really don't think it will progress that far into popularity. Hopefully not anyway. If it does then yes, I would really worry about it. But I am betting that it won't.

    *Scaleless adults meaning other scaleless species- NOT ball pythons.
  • 06-03-2014, 12:03 AM
    Pythonfriend
    Re: Scaleless bp
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Zombree View Post
    I really love my scales. They are smooth, they are shiny looking and they are natural feeling and sort of have that taboo aggressive looking touch- at least to the people who don't know snakes very well. I love Brian B. a lot and BHB. But I have seen older scaleless adults and I don't think they are nearly as impressive as fully scaled adult comparatives. I think it was a break in history, yes. I think he deserves tons of kudos, yes. But I will never want one, I don't think or breed them. But it was a very big feat. So I will give him that.
    As far as disease and what not, I really don't think it will progress that far into popularity. Hopefully not anyway. If it does then yes, I would really worry about it. But I am betting that it won't.

    *Scaleless adults meaning other scaleless species- NOT ball pythons.

    as a morph, it will take off, it will do so in a big way. but of course it will not be everywhere, it will not be widespread. some breeders will stay away, some breeders will only get a scaleless head and will keep scaleless head floating around without breeding scaleless head to scaleless head, and other breeders will produce multi-gene morph fully scaleless BPs. i want to see all the new optics, like: a really good single-gene black pastel, what does it look like in scaleless?

    anyway, this pandoras box will be opened, we can speculate on what will be in it. this gene will become available, there is no doubt. we just have to see what happens from there.
  • 06-03-2014, 12:24 AM
    Zombree
    Re: Scaleless bp
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Pythonfriend View Post
    as a morph, it will take off, it will do so in a big way. but of course it will not be everywhere, it will not be widespread. some breeders will stay away, some breeders will only get a scaleless head and will keep scaleless head floating around without breeding scaleless head to scaleless head, and other breeders will produce multi-gene morph fully scaleless BPs. i want to see all the new optics, like: a really good single-gene black pastel, what does it look like in scaleless?

    anyway, this pandoras box will be opened, we can speculate on what will be in it. this gene will become available, there is no doubt. we just have to see what happens from there.


    I agree to an extent. I do think it will be interesting to see people make scaleless bananas and pinstripes and all that. But I won't be one of the makers, lol.
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