Scaleless bp

[satomi325]

I'll admit that I do want to touch one to see how smooth and soft the snake is, but I don't really agree with breeding for scaleless. Snakes evolved for millions of years to have scales. They're there for a reason and protection.
I know captivity is relatively safe compared to the wild, but that's just my opinion.

[Artemisace]

I'm probably going to catch hate for this and I really don't care if I do, but how many of you bashing Brian actually watched the episode where he cut the egg? He had tears in his eyes he was so happy to see these little baby scaleless balls. I really doubt anyone doing this strictly for the MONEY would react that way and I mean look at the rest of the hobby. If someone has a cool and unique snake that they prove out to be dom or co-dom isn't it a natural thing to wonder if it has a super? I think scaleless snakes are cool I don't know that ever own one as they are WAY out of my price range right now, but maybe when they are more abundant and cheaper I'll consider getting one. Brian seems to me to be a real stand up guy who loves his animals very dearly, just because he's proud enough to say how much he spent on an animal I don't think he's being big headed I think he's just saying it so we know how much he loves these awesome scaly creatures. Anyway I'm done for now, hate on me for this all you want, I really could care less.

[meowmeowkazoo]

I worry about the health of these snakes. I worry they will be more susceptible to burns, that they will have shedding issues, and possibly respiratory issues. I wonder how much damage things like mites will do to them vs regular snakes, and if they will experience skin irritation from substrates like aspen. They might also have issues thermoregulating, depending on how much having scales enables them to retain heat/cold.

At the very least I think they will help us learn more about how regular ball pythons utilize their scales.

[Jessiefish]

I'm probably going to catch hate for this and I really don't care if I do, but how many of you bashing Brian actually watched the episode where he cut the egg? He had tears in his eyes he was so happy to see these little baby scaleless balls. I really doubt anyone doing this strictly for the MONEY would react that way and I mean look at the rest of the hobby. If someone has a cool and unique snake that they prove out to be dom or co-dom isn't it a natural thing to wonder if it has a super? I think scaleless snakes are cool I don't know that ever own one as they are WAY out of my price range right now, but maybe when they are more abundant and cheaper I'll consider getting one. Brian seems to me to be a real stand up guy who loves his animals very dearly, just because he's proud enough to say how much he spent on an animal I don't think he's being big headed I think he's just saying it so we know how much he loves these awesome scaly creatures. Anyway I'm done for now, hate on me for this all you want, I really could care less.

No hate here, I respect that you have a different opinion. I actually did watch the episode. Again, it was him being "first." I love the different morphs, don't get me wrong (Sunset BP? Yes, please...), but he kinda takes it to extremes. And I get that you have to invest in a business to make money, but I don't need to specifically know how many thousands of dollars he can pay for a snake.

I just got a snake from him with mites, too, which is fueling my opinion further... I am not seeing how that's loving his animals dearly, or respecting a customer or their collection. (Yes, QT and all, but still -- accidents can happen.)

[Pythonfriend]

I worry about the health of these snakes. I worry they will be more susceptible to burns, that they will have shedding issues, and possibly respiratory issues. I wonder how much damage things like mites will do to them vs regular snakes, and if they will experience skin irritation from substrates like aspen. They might also have issues thermoregulating, depending on how much having scales enables them to retain heat/cold.

At the very least I think they will help us learn more about how regular ball pythons utilize their scales.

im sorry i dont see most of the issues.

the skin will be a bit more vulnerable, but scaled BPs have exactly the same vulnerable skin between all their scales. i dont think bedding can hurt their skin.

maybe they will be a bit more susceptible to burns, maybe not.

if they are like scaleless corns or scaleless texas rats, there wont be shedding issues, they just shed in one piece in the normal cycle. i dont see how RI is related.

mites like to suck between the scales and to hide under the scales. on a scaleless they can suck everywhere but cannot hide under the scales.

thermoregulating.... remotely possible, but i doubt it. in scaled BPs there is blood circulation in the scales and they are covered with skin, so i see not much of a heat insulating purpose.

ball pythons utilize their scales for movement, for that the belly scales are most important. But then, these scaleless BPs retain their belly scales, so for climbing and crawling i dont see much of a difference. crawling through a small crevace may be harder for a scaleless. i think if the belly scales would be gone, then a scaleless BP would have a problem, that would be an issue for the morph, a big one.

fortunately i first heared that brian disclosed in a comment somewhere that the heat pits and belly scales are fine, and later i heared that Mike Wilbanks made a purchase, which kinda confirms it to me. i am also thrilled to hear that the heat pits are fine; this means the deme ball was a singularity, in the deme the heat pits were not functional and belly scales also impaired and it had some random scales scattered over the body.


i think Brian got really, really lucky and uncovered a variety of scaleless similar to scaleless texas rats and scaleless corns. these require no special husbandry and their body shows no loss in function and they retain their belly scales and some scales on the head. its no freak like the deme ball, and yes i say it and mean it: this was a freak, and if BHB scaleless would be like that, the morph would have no chance.

heat pits are important, eye caps are important, belly scales are important, the scales around the cloaca are important. i have good hopes that this morph only takes away the least important scales, the small ones covering the sides and top of the body.

of course we need to wait for more pictures and the first shed, but i am hopeful.

And when people talk down Brian, i sometimes think its jealousy speaking. he is not a greedy guy. Yes he has a reputation of always having the money to be the first to buy into any new project, and in many cases he is the first to buy. And yes his company is very big and he is CEO. But i do not think that he is a greedy guy and that its about the money for him. Money, for him, is a tool that allows him to do what he wants to do. He has a collection of somewhere between 10000 and 20000 animals, which requires employees to be maintained. some guesstimates, i think setting up a facility like his takes maybe half a million dollars (guessing, i may be too low or too high). running costs, including employees, food, electricity, maintenance, maybe between 50k and 150k per month. But i think he is just living his hobby large and living his dream. I really think first and second are, in no particular order, his obsession with reptiles and his ambition to advance and transform the hobby and the reptile business. Money comes in third, its the enabler. Money is what keeps it all alive, quite literally. I heared him explain how deeply he cares about wild animals and wild reptiles, and that he wants to undermine the market for wild-caught reptiles by breeding reptiles in quality and quantity. An albino or pied BP, or a scaleless BP for that matter, wont put pressure on the wild population because you simply do not find them in nature. Also look at the diversity of species he works with, if it would be all about the money he would cut it down to the ones that turn a profit. I think he really cares and that money is just a tool for him, but his plan is much larger than that and not just to make money.

[Louie]

If health is not an issue and those are hardy and problem free, think of the possibilities, every mutation you know available in the scaleless version .

I think scaleless ratsnake are pretty cool, I am just not much into rat snake, but BP why not, time will tell.

That is just crazy idea hahahah all morphs in scaless but I am just wondering how can snake be scaless without a cost.. that is just sketchy. I hope poor snake wont get hurt. I would love to see it though

"Snakes don't bite. Just humans."

[Jbuhrmester1]

Brian has been in the business for a long time and he already has scaleless snakes. I cannot remember the species he is working with, but he has experience so I feel as if he knows what hes doing.

[Artemisace]

No hate here, I respect that you have a different opinion. I actually did watch the episode. Again, it was him being "first." I love the different morphs, don't get me wrong (Sunset BP? Yes, please...), but he kinda takes it to extremes. And I get that you have to invest in a business to make money, but I don't need to specifically know how many thousands of dollars he can pay for a snake.

I just got a snake from him with mites, too, which is fueling my opinion further... I am not seeing how that's loving his animals dearly, or respecting a customer or their collection. (Yes, QT and all, but still -- accidents can happen.)

Glad to not catch any hate, bit of a relief in all honesty, but anyway I can see your point. I would be ticked if I got a snake from someone and it had mites. Well as a matter of fact I did get mites from a shop, but they were on the rats I was feeding my ball. Stopped buying rats from there took care of the mite issue and they haven't been back so, yeah I kinda know what that's like. Anyway, while I don't really want to hear how much he has spent on his animals. Sometimes it's interesting to know. I agree on sunsets they are beautiful animals by the way. But if nothing else I think Brian is the best option out there for handling this project and I can't wait to see where it goes. I want to know what the morph does to other morphs. I'd like to see a pastel or a pinstripe scaleless I think that would be cool.

[Jessiefish]

A full picture leaked (posted on FB). They do not have heat pits. Kinda interesting.

[Artemisace]

A full picture leaked (posted on FB). They do not have heat pits. Kinda interesting.

BHB posted a pic on their instagram yesterday so I don't think it's a leak. They don't appear to have heat pits, but I read a comment somewhere, I think it was on youtube, that Brian was saying they do have heat pits. They are just harder to see since there are no scales marking where they are.