** ball python industry going under????**

:confused::confused::confused:

Ok, so basically im a little worried. I have a nice little selection of balls, a few babies, a few males and a few females. This is my first year breeding and already my male fire has been locked with 2 normals and a caramel albino multiple times. My spider has also locked with the caramel albino. Hoping to get some Caramel Albino x fires and Caramel Albino Spiders....

Anyway, I breed my own rats/mice but for some reason that aren't breeding at the moment so I have to go down to the local Herp Store and buy some feeders. The guy who owns the store here in Killeen,TX area, has a fair share of Venomous, non venomous, etc with a few balls but nothing fancy. Anyway, every time I go in there he tells me the same thing, "Stupid thing you are doing breeding morphs, the industry is failing. I recently went to a San Antonio show where Bob Clark and all the big name breeders are selling morphs for super cheap. The industry is saturated and there is no money in it. Its a waste of money and time, the Spiders are selling for under $80 and the Pastels are selling for about $50-$75!"

So, that is what he keeps telling me, I am wondering if there is any truth to this? I just got my website up, just got my other rack built and I LOVE these snakes. I would hate to see the industry go under.

I am a new breeder so to speak, but I did a few years of research and I keep very detailed paperwork of all my snakes from the day they are in my hands. I keep health reports, weigh in records, etc. I see a ton of "crappy" breeders out there on Craigslist, etc. that are selling sick snakes to people that have no clue what they are getting into. Its sad, and I just hope that with me being a legit breeder and with you guys being legit, that the industry doesn't crumble.

With that being said, I have invested some money into this (not as much as you guys I am sure) and I understand that I won't see a return on my investment right away, I know it will take a couple years and I'm ok with that. I love my babies and would keep them even if the industry flopped. However, I'm just concerned and not sure if I should invest any more money in this business.....

Advice?:(:confused::(:tears:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tejanastar

:confused::confused::confused:

Ok, so basically im a little worried. I have a nice little selection of balls, a few babies, a few males and a few females. This is my first year breeding and already my male fire has been locked with 2 normals and a caramel albino multiple times. My spider has also locked with the caramel albino. Hoping to get some Caramel Albino x fires and Caramel Albino Spiders....

Anyway, I breed my own rats/mice but for some reason that aren't breeding at the moment so I have to go down to the local Herp Store and buy some feeders. The guy who owns the store here in Killeen,TX area, has a fair share of Venomous, non venomous, etc with a few balls but nothing fancy. Anyway, every time I go in there he tells me the same thing, "Stupid thing you are doing breeding morphs, the industry is failing. I recently went to a San Antonio show where Bob Clark and all the big name breeders are selling morphs for super cheap. The industry is saturated and there is no money in it. Its a waste of money and time, the Spiders are selling for under $80 and the Pastels are selling for about $50-$75!"

So, that is what he keeps telling me, I am wondering if there is any truth to this? I just got my website up, just got my other rack built and I LOVE these snakes. I would hate to see the industry go under.

I am a new breeder so to speak, but I did a few years of research and I keep very detailed paperwork of all my snakes from the day they are in my hands. I keep health reports, weigh in records, etc. I see a ton of "crappy" breeders out there on Craigslist, etc. that are selling sick snakes to people that have no clue what they are getting into. Its sad, and I just hope that with me being a legit breeder and with you guys being legit, that the industry doesn't crumble.

With that being said, I have invested some money into this (not as much as you guys I am sure) and I understand that I won't see a return on my investment right away, I know it will take a couple years and I'm ok with that. I love my babies and would keep them even if the industry flopped. However, I'm just concerned and not sure if I should invest any more money in this business.....

Advice?:(:confused::(:tears:

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He is just saying that 'cause the pet shops are loosing buisness.
They don't have a corner on the market any more.

If you look on bp.net then you know that everyday someone new comes on if not a handful of new people come on and introduce themselves and are so excited to be BP owners. They also see all the collections and get addicted fast. I have noticed as with myself that owning a snake is like doing crack. Every day a future breeder gets his/her first snake. The more people own snakes over time the more people get use to snakes as pets/family. But I do understand that their is so much competition when it comes to selling and if you dont sell then you just aquired. My opinion is that if you breed known morphs at a quality but not cheap price then you will do ok. Also like everything in this world I believe that the quality of the parents passes to the offspring. But I dont see the industry dying any time soon. Dont compete with the big guys. Work on supply and demand for you state and promote. Then when you build a big enough business you can move on to big and better things. But that is just IMO. Good luck with your future BP endeavours.

I dont think its going under, but I noticed you wrote you want some caramel albino spiders.... I hope that spider is het caramel cus if not you'll just get spider het caramels.

I can't speak for anyone else but my business is doing well and other breeders I know seem to be doing just fine. I guess you could say business is a little slower then in the past but you could say that for any business.

I agree with Dave... I haven't been having any issues, just things being a bit slower to sell than before. That doesn't mean things aren't selling.

Pessimism doesn't get people very far.

People love Ball Pythons. Ball Pythons will be around for ever. Be it $5 or $10,000, they will be around.

It's not going under. There are just so many morphs being created that the older morphs that are produced by the hundreds every year have to be sold for less in order to move them. Quality animals of that morph are going to hold their value a little better, but just look at the corn snake market. Really neat morphs are going for the same price of normal corns because they are made by the hundreds. The corn morphs that are more rare are still selling for several hundred dollars. I'm using corn snakes because they reproduce so quickly their prices have to stay low, yet the morphs that aren't made by every Joe Blow out there are still pretty pricey.

Getting into the business with low end snakes is of course going to take you longer to build up a good stock of high end babies to sell, but with patience, determination, and some money you can do it.

Its just supply and demand. The base morphs will continue to drop in price due to supply. They aren't going to go way down. But the price will not move as fast for the combo morphs and hets. I think its just a matter of what you plan on breeding.

Thanks to everyone to help clarify this for me.

My Spider isn't het Caramel but hey thats ok, Ill just hold back a male het and try again in a future breeding!

Although Im not a crack user, I can completely agree because I for one am addicted to them. Not only the colors, and the mutations but because they are amazing animals. I find for the most part they are easy to care for. I have a cat that is just as demanding for attention as my 5yr old! I check on my balls every day (spot cleaning,etc) and some days I don't pick them up at all and they are totally ok with it. I really like how they have so much independence. They don't "need" attention. Unlike my cat and my Boxer.

I told the guy at the pet store that I love Expos. That Expos are "known" for cheap prices. It helps the breeder get rid of stock, and it helps the future buyers. Not all buyers are breeders, some are just collectors, like a stamp collector or whatever. That is what I have noticed.

Anyway, thanks for the info. I feel so much more relief!:D

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Originally Posted by Driver

Its just supply and demand. The base morphs will continue to drop in price due to supply. They aren't going to go way down. But the price will not move as fast for the combo morphs and hets. I think its just a matter of what you plan on breeding.

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That is one of the things that the guy at the store said, he said "No one will pay $5000+ for a snake, then you will be stuck with that snake along with everything else."

He also said, "I wouldn't be breeding right now anyway, with the end of the world and all in 2012!"

I thought to myself, why is he acting this way, I mean its not like im trying to "take his business", he doesn't even sell Balls really. He has like 3 of them, but for the most part he has Rattlers, Green Trees, Lizards, Reticulated, Burmese...but not a lot of Balls.

I think he is a "hater" on all the beautiful mutations you can do! :rolleyes:

Haha, no one will pay $5000 for a snake? I bet that 50% of the members here have.


Don't worry girl, don't get down, he's a jealous ball python hater and there are lots of them around.

Especially if he believes all of that poo ninny about 2012.

A lot of people hate ball pythons.

Keep on lovin :)

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Originally Posted by Jessica Loesch

Haha, no one will pay $5000 for a snake? I bet that 50% of the members here have.


Don't worry girl, don't get down, he's a jealous ball python hater and there are lots of them around.

Especially if he believes all of that poo ninny about 2012.

A lot of people hate ball pythons.

Keep on lovin :)

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I have been noticing a lot of Ball Haters that I run into at the pet stores and stuff....its crazy. These are such beautiful animals.

Thanks for your encouragement! :D

Quality, reputation, quality, being out in the reptile community, quality, being friendly and helpful and having good customer service, and did I mention quality?

Doing projects that not everyone else is doing also helps sell, the market has plenty of people doing pastels and spiders and bee's.
Your caramel fire project for example, very nice and not everyone is in that project, kudos.

If you produce quality snakes and put them out at a fair price people will want them.
I produced 80 snakes this year and have about 12 left for sale, slow yes, dead? heck no

seems like a weird guy to me in the pet store you're going too.. but never give up something you love doing because of somebody elses opinion.. and best of luck

Thanks you guys. I really love the fire gene as it brightens up the morphs nicely. I want to produce beautiful, great quality snakes with a great reputation. I just started up my website. www.kurveballz.com and I have facebook too www.facebook/kurveballz

I am excited. I love Balls and I love people...so customer service with quality BP is all me! :D

Thanks everyone for the support! ;)

You wont see the ball market go under in your life time, if anything this industry as a whole is growing every year.
Total U.S. Pet Industry Expenditures
Year Billion

2011 $50.84 Est.

2010 $48.35 Actual

2009 $45.5

2008 $43.2

2007 $41.2

2006 $38.5

2005 $36.3

2004 $34.4

2003 $32.4

2002 $29.5

2001 $28.5

1998 $23

1996 $21

1994 $17
Number of U.S. Households that Own a Pet (millions)

Bird 5.7

Cat 38.9

Dog 46.3

Equine 2.4

Freshwater Fish 11.9

Saltwater Fish 0.7

Reptile 4.6

Small Animal 5.0
Reptile popularity and purchases are growing every year

Is the market crashing on common single gene snakes? Probably. It's a simple issue of supply and demand. That doesn't reflect the multigene and recessive animals though. For everyone person that joins the hobby, another leaves. People think it's a "get rich quick" scheme or something and they buy furiously and then exit just as furiously when the struggle to sell single gene subpar animals in a handful of weeks. This is especially bad when someone has no reputation, has invested no time into the community, and buys and then breeds anything that's cheap. Like all things you get what you put into it.

Regards,

B

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iCandiBallPythons

You wont see the ball market go under in your life time, if anything this industry as a whole is growing every year.
Total U.S. Pet Industry Expenditures
Year Billion

2011 $50.84 Est.

2010 $48.35 Actual

2009 $45.5

2008 $43.2

2007 $41.2

2006 $38.5

2005 $36.3

2004 $34.4

2003 $32.4

2002 $29.5

2001 $28.5

1998 $23

1996 $21

1994 $17
Number of U.S. Households that Own a Pet (millions)

Bird 5.7

Cat 38.9

Dog 46.3

Equine 2.4

Freshwater Fish 11.9

Saltwater Fish 0.7

Reptile 4.6

Small Animal 5.0
Reptile popularity and purchases are growing every year

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Wow, very informative. Thank you. People find out what I do, as far as keeping them and breeding and right away I get the same questions, "Why on earth would you do that? They are so gross!" or "How can you stand being with them? Eeewww" or "Do you not think its dangerous to have your 5 yr old live in that house with those snakes? Did you not see what happened in Flordia??" (yeah I LOVE that one) all of these I am able to answer or can give them a little, "in your face" reply. lol However, when someone tells me, "They sell morphs so cheap at Expos, too many people are breeding, it will be like breeding dogs and cats in a few years. No one will pay good money for them. the price will drop, you will lose all your investment,etc." Well, thats when I don't know what to say.

Thank you for your information. Very knowledgeable! :gj:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Simple Man

Is the market crashing on common single gene snakes? Probably. It's a simple issue of supply and demand. That doesn't reflect the multigene and recessive animals though. For everyone person that joins the hobby, another leaves. People think it's a "get rich quick" scheme or something and they buy furiously and then exit just as furiously when the struggle to sell single gene subpar animals in a handful of weeks. This is especially bad when someone has no reputation, has invested no time into the community, and buys and then breeds anything that's cheap. Like all things you get what you put into it.

Regards,

B

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Thank you for your input. I started buying about 3yrs ago. I have a caramel albino that is breeding currently, a fire and spider and was given 3 normals, and still have the one normal I bought first that made me fall in love with Balls, plus a lesser, pinstripe, and 2 pastels. I am new at this and I understand that everything takes time. That is why I love the snakes because even if I don't make a living off of it, then at least I have a lot of animals that I love! I would like to get involved in the community as I just put my website up www.kurveballz.com and www.facebook.com/kurveballz but how does one get involved in a reptile community to become known? I have nothing to sell at the moment until early Spring time, what would I do to build up reputation?? I attend local Expos in my area, but not as a vendor as I have nothing available. Any ideas?? :confused:

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Originally Posted by tejanastar

Thank you for your input. I started buying about 3yrs ago. I have a caramel albino that is breeding currently, a fire and spider and was given 3 normals, and still have the one normal I bought first that made me fall in love with Balls, plus a lesser, pinstripe, and 2 pastels. I am new at this and I understand that everything takes time. That is why I love the snakes because even if I don't make a living off of it, then at least I have a lot of animals that I love! I would like to get involved in the community as I just put my website up www.kurveballz.com and www.facebook.com/kurveballz but how does one get involved in a reptile community to become known? I have nothing to sell at the moment until early Spring time, what would I do to build up reputation?? I attend local Expos in my area, but not as a vendor as I have nothing available. Any ideas?? :confused:

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Participate on the various forums. Make friends. Give advice to people less experienced than you. Chat reptiles. Showoff your animals. I could go on... it's all about what you want to put into it. I've met a lot of really good people online and have made a lot of friends. I have a few friends I talk snakes with daily. Where I live there isn't a huge reptile scene like some parts of the US.

Regards,

B

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tejanastar

Thank you for your input. I started buying about 3yrs ago. I have a caramel albino that is breeding currently, a fire and spider and was given 3 normals, and still have the one normal I bought first that made me fall in love with Balls, plus a lesser, pinstripe, and 2 pastels. I am new at this and I understand that everything takes time. That is why I love the snakes because even if I don't make a living off of it, then at least I have a lot of animals that I love! I would like to get involved in the community as I just put my website up www.kurveballz.com and www.facebook.com/kurveballz but how does one get involved in a reptile community to become known? I have nothing to sell at the moment until early Spring time, what would I do to build up reputation?? I attend local Expos in my area, but not as a vendor as I have nothing available. Any ideas?? :confused:

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Reputation is something that comes by a combination of time around the industry and and animals produced and sold backed by stellar customer service, its not built over night. You also have to decide if you want a business or a hobby , if its a business that you want then you have to expect yourself to run it like a business.

Lower-end Single gene "standard" morphs are falling in price, it happens in any business... Double genes are becoming the new single genes. In the end quality is still quality and is worth it though.

Would love to do it as a business, but can you imagine the taxes that you would pay?? I mean look at NERD, they must make a fortune and pay back a fortune in taxes. I'm all for the USA but dang, let a poor man get a break! lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tejanastar

Would love to do it as a business, but can you imagine the taxes that you would pay?? I mean look at NERD, they must make a fortune and pay back a fortune in taxes. I'm all for the USA but dang, let a poor man get a break! lol

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LOL...I worked at NERD for nearly 10 years. Taxes aside, overhead at a big facility is mindblowing, not to mention the ins & outs of everyday business. It can be seriously crazy, and I have a lot of admiration for those who are able to maintain things on that level successfully, long-term.

Something else I learned from a decade @ a big facility, doing shows, the forums, all of it...there are more $#*! talkers in the "ball python industry/hobby" than there are ball pythons. True fact. It's shocking the number of people who run their mouths who have never even been near the morphs they like to trash talk.

Keep what you like, like what you keep, breed to fulfill your own goals, be realistic & you won't be left hanging. Never lose sight of what fascinates you about these snakes in the first place, and you'll find something every day that makes you love them even more.

And NEVER, no matter what, let someone who is talking smack take away from your enjoyment of your snakes. EVER. Their opinions are usually only as substantial as a fart in the wind. ;)

Good luck w/your projects!

K~

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Originally Posted by Kara

LOL...I worked at NERD for nearly 10 years. Taxes aside, overhead at a big facility is mindblowing, not to mention the ins & outs of everyday business. It can be seriously crazy, and I have a lot of admiration for those who are able to maintain things on that level successfully, long-term.

Something else I learned from a decade @ a big facility, doing shows, the forums, all of it...there are more $#*! talkers in the "ball python industry/hobby" than there are ball pythons. True fact. It's shocking the number of people who run their mouths who have never even been near the morphs they like to trash talk.

Keep what you like, like what you keep, breed to fulfill your own goals, be realistic & you won't be left hanging. Never lose sight of what fascinates you about these snakes in the first place, and you'll find something every day that makes you love them even more.

And NEVER, no matter what, let someone who is talking smack take away from your enjoyment of your snakes. EVER. Their opinions are usually only as substantial as a fart in the wind. ;)

Good luck w/your projects!

K~

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Wow, very well put :bow: Thank you so much for your advice in this matter. This has been a topic that I've been dealing with for some time now. Every time I go to this guys store here in Central Texas area, he is always laughing at me and talking crap about the Ball Python Morphs,etc. Its been going on for about a year now, once a week, and I finally decided to post on here and get a feel of what you guys all think. Thank you so much for putting my mind at ease! =)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tejanastar

Wow, very well put :bow: Thank you so much for your advice in this matter. This has been a topic that I've been dealing with for some time now. Every time I go to this guys store here in Central Texas area, he is always laughing at me and talking crap about the Ball Python Morphs,etc. Its been going on for about a year now, once a week, and I finally decided to post on here and get a feel of what you guys all think. Thank you so much for putting my mind at ease! =)

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:D You bet hon! I'm from North-Central TX originally & have traveled every corner of the state in my field-herpin' quests. The mindset of local pet stores can be very discouraging because it's easy for the folks at such stores to be big minnows in a mudpuddle. Fortunately they AIN'T the bottom line for what's what w/ball pythons or any other species.

Good on ya for getting out & doing your homework. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tejanastar

Every time I go to this guys store here in Central Texas area, he is always laughing at me and talking crap about the Ball Python Morphs,etc.

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Pet stores are a study. Sometimes I walk into one and find someone who is extremely knowlegable about snakes.

Sometimes I walk in and find someone who thinks that selling you a $3 rat makes him a flipping expert. :rolleyes:

Looked at your website and looks nice. Just to let you know...poss yellow is not correct, it eiter is or isnt.
Good luck

Check out your website,looks good:gj:

the morph market will never go under... It may drop some but thats it.

Know why?

Because BP's average only 4 or 5 eggs a year. They also require space, time, and investment.

The economy may be slow but I just went to the worst Hep show (because of selection) and yes some morphs were a little lower than normal but standard snakes like spiders pastels and pins were all at the normal price. The market fluctuats on everything.

The key is that store just doesnt want to pay for your babies when the time comes so he is talking you down and when you do sell to him, he will say you know I am doing you a favor taking these worthless things off your hands. He then he makes a killing in profits. It is a typical strategy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tejanastar

Wow, very well put :bow: Thank you so much for your advice in this matter. This has been a topic that I've been dealing with for some time now. Every time I go to this guys store here in Central Texas area, he is always laughing at me and talking crap about the Ball Python Morphs,etc. Its been going on for about a year now, once a week, and I finally decided to post on here and get a feel of what you guys all think. Thank you so much for putting my mind at ease! =)

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If they said that to me, I'd say "you know what? I'm your CUSTOMER and you suck at customer service by being insulting to me". And then I'd find another store to patronize.

Agreed! I think you are giving your business to the wrong store. I only have one pet store I frequent, Arizona Reptile Center. I can tell you that they have never told me that the business is a bad idea or that I am a fool for getting into breeding. In fact all the employees are rather supportive and love the animals! They were so thrilled when I rescued Sally that they didn't charge me for probing or weight, they were simply happy to see her go to a good home. In my opinion you should find somewhere with better customer service, that's supportive of your choices. You don't need anyone mocking you every time you come in just because he doesn't think the market is going to last.:colbert:

Not to rain on your parade, but check this thread out concerning female caramel albinos laying viable clutches. http://www.reptileradio.net/reptiler...caramel+albino

Maybe you'll get some tips on getting her to give you a good clutch. Good luck with your breeding efforts.

I've only been breeding for 2 years and my collection's value in today's market is over 50k greater than all my original investments, and when I determine market value in my spread sheets, it's very very low so I'm never surprised in my differences or when I have to sell a snake. I also keep track of which snake in my collection is decreasing or increasing in value... This difference will GREATLY increase for me this next breeding season, as it will be the first season of really producing high end stuff.

For example, you buy a female lesser pastel and she pounds food and puts on weight, her value is increasing with size as she becomes a potential or proven breeder. Same would go with a high end male breeder, when he gets breeding size his value increases... however over time there comes a plateau, then a gradual decrease in value, sometimes faster than expected. Those animals that decrease too much for me, it's time to move them down to the next breeder who's value of the same snake would be better for them for what he/she is investing for. I'm constantly evaluating what snakes I should keep that is a greater value of my own collection and which ones I need to move.

This is why when people ask me how they should get into the business, I tell them they should invest early in female morphs because every rat you feed them, their value increases. That is what I would consider a safe investment, especially if you reduce your own expenses. For instance, this would be no good if you had to buy rats for 5$ each, but if you can get rats for cheap, or produce your own, than it's a solid investment. Then I tell them to invest in a male morphs that are in high demand that you produce more of. Just the way I did it.

Also, when my fiance and I work on our collection, it's an enjoyment and never a burden, so we don't see it as work when it is a passion. That's always the best part.

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Originally Posted by dadstoys2

Looked at your website and looks nice. Just to let you know...poss yellow is not correct, it eiter is or isnt.
Good luck

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http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...60255559_n.jpg

Someone told me she is, then some tell me she isn't so not sure. What I do know, is that we got called 2 yrs ago from our local Pet Smart to come get her. They told me it was a him based on tail length (LAST time I ever fall for that! I recently was at a PetCo here in the area and a lady was interested in buying a MALE Ball Python so here comes the MANAGER of the store, telling the lady that, "Based on tail size, bla bla bla" So I (of course) said, "EXCUSE me, and I popped it and it was an OBVIOUS male. The manager looked at me as if I was the most amazing thing to ever walk the earth!:O Anyway, I popped "him" to find out that he was a SHE! No wonder she wasn't interested in my female. :O Anyway, SHE has beautiful copper/gold tones all along the side down into the stomach. Its beautiful. Only picture I have of her, she is in shed, so ill get one of her stomach as soon as she "clears" up. :)

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Originally Posted by Crawly's Mom

Agreed! I think you are giving your business to the wrong store. I only have one pet store I frequent, Arizona Reptile Center. I can tell you that they have never told me that the business is a bad idea or that I am a fool for getting into breeding. In fact all the employees are rather supportive and love the animals! They were so thrilled when I rescued Sally that they didn't charge me for probing or weight, they were simply happy to see her go to a good home. In my opinion you should find somewhere with better customer service, that's supportive of your choices. You don't need anyone mocking you every time you come in just because he doesn't think the market is going to last.:colbert:

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I breed my own rats/mice but for some reason they are NOT interested in breeding. Not sure what the deal is. The male rat got a female pregnant ONCE and that was it. So, waiting on something to happen there, in the mean time I have to go buy feeders. TG that its breeding season and everyone eats every other week unless they are "refusing" which is only my one male and one normal at the moment, everyone else is eating. The babies and the others that are NOT of breeding weight are still feeding once a week. Anyway, instead of paying $3.99 a mouse at PetCo and instead of paying $6.99 a mouse at PetSmart, I go down to this :cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r:s place and pay $2 a mouse. So, he is cheaper then all of them but he is such a *%^&$#!!$%$ :rage::mad:

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Originally Posted by ChuckSM

The economy may be slow but I just went to the worst Hep show (because of selection) and yes some morphs were a little lower than normal but standard snakes like spiders pastels and pins were all at the normal price. The market fluctuats on everything.

The key is that store just doesnt want to pay for your babies when the time comes so he is talking you down and when you do sell to him, he will say you know I am doing you a favor taking these worthless things off your hands. He then he makes a killing in profits. It is a typical strategy.

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It actually never crossed my mind to sell to a "pet store", do breeders do that will what they can't get rid of? :confused:

Many breeders will wholesale normals and sometimes hets that are in lesser demand to pet stores. There simply isn't a huge amount of demand for normals (ESPECIALLY normal males) in the breeding side of things, and many pet stores (those that actually care about animals) would rather buy local captive hatched babies that are in good shape and they don't have to pay shipping for, instead of babies from Africa.

Never underestimate normals, though. Simply because they aren't in high demand with breeders, doesn't mean that they can't be wonderful pets. Many ball python owners start out with a normal from a pet store, and they learn how great the snakes are from that.

Lol for someone who knows "crackheads" irl, I dont feel comfortable comparing something so beautiful as ball pythons to something as destructive as crack. I would more likely compare ball pythons to candy or chocolate. Once you have one bite, you gotta have another. That being said, I know it was just an exaggeration :P

In terms of the market and what that guy was saying about the market going under, I think a lot of breeders these days can manage to sell all of their stock through a website and forums. The pet store owners who have physical locations where people can go to "shop" are quickly losing money because its not really that sustainable because cost of operation is SO high with renting a unit (unless youre a top breeder where youre from). Upkeeping a website keeps costs way down and I think many breeders these days just devote a "snake room" in their own house. Dont lose hope! I am hoping to breed too in the future, and as long as you dont depend on snakes for your income and keep it as a hobby/project on the side, then you will always be alright!

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Originally Posted by SilverDemon

Many breeders will wholesale normals and sometimes hets that are in lesser demand to pet stores. There simply isn't a huge amount of demand for normals (ESPECIALLY normal males) in the breeding side of things, and many pet stores (those that actually care about animals) would rather buy local captive hatched babies that are in good shape and they don't have to pay shipping for, instead of babies from Africa.

Never underestimate normals, though. Simply because they aren't in high demand with breeders, doesn't mean that they can't be wonderful pets. Many ball python owners start out with a normal from a pet store, and they learn how great the snakes are from that.

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Actually thats how I started. My husband actually begged for a BP. I told him, "NO way, they are mean!", his response was, "You get all those shoes you want!" So needless to say, I bought him a BP for his Birthday. Sad thing is that, it for some reason hated him. If I was in the room, it would try to crawl away to get on my arm or my neck or something. Its the one pictured above that I posted. Anyway, after that, he showed me all the different morphs, and I was hooked. He wanted to start breeding, so I saved up money and purchased a few morphs and after a couple years he we are our first season. Only, my husband is kinda "fed up" I guess he didn't realize that its a LOT of patience and I am VERY clean, I have a set schedule that I do EVERYTHING regarding my snakes. Same time every day for spot cleaning, water check, temp check, etc etc. Anyway, he kinda ditched me with regards to the snakes, and here I am....loving them more than ever!!!! lol Is it sad to be more in love with my snakes than I am with my husband???? lol :O:rofl:

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Originally Posted by mattchibi

Lol for someone who knows "crackheads" irl, I dont feel comfortable comparing something so beautiful as ball pythons to something as destructive as crack. I would more likely compare ball pythons to candy or chocolate. Once you have one bite, you gotta have another. That being said, I know it was just an exaggeration :P

In terms of the market and what that guy was saying about the market going under, I think a lot of breeders these days can manage to sell all of their stock through a website and forums. The pet store owners who have physical locations where people can go to "shop" are quickly losing money because its not really that sustainable because cost of operation is SO high with renting a unit (unless youre a top breeder where youre from). Upkeeping a website keeps costs way down and I think many breeders these days just devote a "snake room" in their own house. Dont lose hope! I am hoping to breed too in the future, and as long as you dont depend on snakes for your income and keep it as a hobby/project on the side, then you will always be alright!

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Actually the guy on the first page of my thread stated something about BP are like Crack as far as being so addictive. My response was to that comment he made. Which im not a crackhead but I get what he is saying...

Anyway, I totally agree with you with the pet stores, etc. My family was in a serious car accident this past Christmas with a Semi Trailer off the Interstate. So im just staying at home at the moment and not really needing to worry about money currently so decided to devote my time to this. Im also a mechanic so when Im not with cars then im with snakes. :)

"Snake Room", thats actually what I have. My 3rd bedroom is closed off and it has my racks etc. :snake:

the UK market is also fairly solid...

this year i've hatched approximately 200, and have already sold about 2/3rds (130) of them
with about another 10 on payment plans that have yet to be completed/fully paid-up

if this is what is your pet-store guy means by the ball python market is going under, i hope it goes under every year!

And your own experience is a great example of how the ball python industry is FAR from sinking! They're like potato chips, once people see how great they are, and all the different flavors, they can't stick with just one.

More people are turning to keeping ball pythons probably because of the economy, coupled with slowly dying stereotypes and myths about snakes. Ball pythons are a good sized snake that are easy to care for, as well as inexpensive in their requirements. For those without a lot of spare time, which is becoming more and more common in this increasingly fast-paced world, they make a great pet. I doubt they'll ever get as popular as cats or dogs, but they are becoming a viable alternative. And morphs will help in that regard (the options available mean that there's something for everyone).

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Originally Posted by SilverDemon

And your own experience is a great example of how the ball python industry is FAR from sinking! They're like potato chips, once people see how great they are, and all the different flavors, they can't stick with just one.

More people are turning to keeping ball pythons probably because of the economy, coupled with slowly dying stereotypes and myths about snakes. Ball pythons are a good sized snake that are easy to care for, as well as inexpensive in their requirements. For those without a lot of spare time, which is becoming more and more common in this increasingly fast-paced world, they make a great pet. I doubt they'll ever get as popular as cats or dogs, but they are becoming a viable alternative. And morphs will help in that regard (the options available mean that there's something for everyone).

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Very true. One of the reasons I love them are because they are so independent in the sense that they are not like a Dog where you have to put the dog out every couple hours. Some days Im so busy that I just go in the room, do my usual check and thats it. Some days I hold each one for about 10-15min. as well as my usual daily check. My Boxer on the other hand, is just as bad as my needy cat. Are cats not supposed to be independent??? Mine is more attatched to me than my 5 yr old! Anyway, I love snakes because they are so easy to care for (for the most part), if you don't hold them they are totally ok with it. Very great pets for people "on the go" or to busy for the average needy cat and dog.

tejanastar the pic you posted looks good but i'm pretty its normal.
Wow did you say $3.99 for feeders...ouch!
If you were close id sell you all the rats you need for way cheaper...mine are always dropping babies but do tend to slow up a bit in the fall, but thank god the snakes slow up too. I can finally start freezing stuff again.