Cordelia's neck - very upset!

My new lesser Cordelia has something wrong with her neck, pretty sure it's a kink, and I'm very upset about this. :( I noticed something weird when she first arrived, but it just looked like a little skin flap (which I assumed was from being coiled on the trip here). Now that she's eaten I've had a chance to really handle her, and immediately realized this isn't just skin! I did contact the seller about it, but he still hasn't responded to my email.

Just thought I would show you all what's going on, and see if anyone can tell me what it is. She looks fairly normal when relaxed, but as soon as she stretches out the neck gets funky... it's kind of hard but flexible in that spot, and she was able to eat an adult mouse without any trouble. I wouldn't care if this is just cosmetic, but since I got her with plans for breeding, does this mean I shouldn't breed her now? If that's the case, I want a darned refund!!! Would love to discuss this with the breeder before I get too attached, so hopefully he will respond soon. :cool:

Here it is, and you can see how it goes from barely noticeable to "WTH?!" depending on her position:

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...4/P1040656.jpg

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...4/P1040667.jpg

This is what it does when she stretches really long...
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...4/P1040686.jpg

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...4/P1040687.jpg

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...4/P1040683.jpg

Definitely looks like a defect, I would want a refund and not purchase from that breeder again since he did not tell you about the defect.

Sent from my MB501 using Tapatalk

Not really what I want to hear, but thanks for the response... now, what do I do if he never responds? :oops:

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Originally Posted by Lolo76

Not really what I want to hear, but thanks for the response... now, what do I do if he never responds? :oops:

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Gather some proof (emails, timelines, ads, guarantees, photos, etc) and go report him on the BOI. Then email him a link to the post so he has a chance to respond and make things right.

yea there's no way anyone should of sold that, without disclosing she had a kink.

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Originally Posted by spitzu

Gather some proof (emails, timelines, ads, guarantees, photos, etc) and go report him on the BOI. Then email him a link to the post so he has a chance to respond and make things right.

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That's what I was thinking, but I'm very hesitant to get involved on the BOI... I am pretty familiar with that forum, and see how the buyer usually gets slammed instead of the seller. :cool: I also don't want to ruin somebody's reputation, if in fact this was an oversight - so I'll at least give him a little more time to respond privately.

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

yea there's no way anyone should of sold that, without disclosing she had a kink.

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I agree, and he said NOTHING about this... just went back & read some of the early emails, and not a word about kinks or defects. Not to mention, I paid slightly above "market price" for this girl, since she was so freakin' pretty in the photos (and still is, despite the neck thing).

I had one slightly kinked baby in my first clutch, not even as bad as this one, and have already told one interested buyer all about it... also offered him free of charge, since it's a normal male with a defect. So I don't understand how somebody could fail to mention this, but maybe I'm more honest than some people?

That sucks! How long have you had her?

Always go over a new arrival very carefully as soon as you get it...If there's a problem like this it needs to be addressed immediately.

I always sex them as soon as I get them too and check for anything abnormal...

I also do the same thing before I ship an animal to a customer...

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Originally Posted by Lolo76

That's what I was thinking, but I'm very hesitant to get involved on the BOI... I am pretty familiar with that forum, and see how the buyer usually gets slammed instead of the seller. :cool: I also don't want to ruin somebody's reputation, if in fact this was an oversight - so I'll at least give him a little more time to respond privately.

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From what I've been reading they seem to be pretty fair when the evidence is all in order. I would jump all over a buyer that was trying to ruin someone's reputation without proof too. I think that if you posted a good timeline of events, showed that you attempted to contact him with screenshots of undoctored emails, and calmly laid out the facts you'd be fine.

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Originally Posted by Lolo76

I agree, and he said NOTHING about this... just went back & read some of the early emails, and not a word about kinks or defects. Not to mention, I paid slightly above "market price" for this girl, since she was so freakin' pretty in the photos (and still is, despite the neck thing).

I had one slightly kinked baby in my first clutch, not even as bad as this one, and have already told one interested buyer all about it... also offered him free of charge, since it's a normal male with a defect. So I don't understand how somebody could fail to mention this, but maybe I'm more honest than some people?

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Looking back at the pics the breeder sent can you see the kink now that you know what to look for?

Definitely a kink. The seller should have been honest about this, not cool at all !!
Something like that doesn't just pop up in shipping.

There is no way of knowing whether the kink is caused by temp. fluctuations during incubation, injury to the hatchling or some genetic defect in the snake. Personally, I wouldn't use her for breeding because of that.

She should have went on to a "pet home" with full disclosure and at a heavily discounted price.

Wait and see what the breeder will say. If he ignores you or isn't willing to fix this situation, take it to the BOI. You might never get resolution, but at least other people will be warned before purchasing from him/her.

I still can't believe you weren't told of this.

Ask for a refund and or keep the snake.

Ive seen Kinks work out of snakes that werent severe and that one doesnt look that bad.

But odds are breeder will want snake back.

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Originally Posted by Lolo76

That's what I was thinking, but I'm very hesitant to get involved on the BOI... I am pretty familiar with that forum, and see how the buyer usually gets slammed instead of the seller. :cool: I also don't want to ruin somebody's reputation, if in fact this was an oversight - so I'll at least give him a little more time to respond privately.

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A kink like that is not an oversight, if you don't notice that....i really don't know good words to describe what I think. I agree you should give him time respond, but I can't see that being an oversight by any means.

Thanks everyone for the responses! I did go back & examine the original photos (sent by the seller), and there is no sign of a kink... "coincidentally" neither photo shows that exact spot on her body, and the rest of her appears fine. I agree this would be a rather unlikely oversight - but since it's actually two guys working together, I thought maybe the other one handles the snakes & forgot to tell the one in charge of sales. Just trying to be diplomatic, since I hate to immediately think the worst of people.

Guess I'll wait a few more days for a response, then send a follow-up, and THEN take it to the BOI if I still haven't heard back... it is a holiday week, so hopefully that explains the delay in his reply. I am very upset about the whole situation, since I waited MONTHS for this girl and was extremely excited about her. I'd hate to send her back, but obviously I can't do much with a kinked breeder. :rolleyes:

P.S. If I don't end up getting my money back, this will be a major financial blow. I actually lost my job 2 months after paying the deposit, and basically had to squeeze money from rocks to finish paying for her... so this was money I can't afford to simply "write off as a loss" right now.

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Originally Posted by coldbloodaddict

That sucks! How long have you had her?

Always go over a new arrival very carefully as soon as you get it...If there's a problem like this it needs to be addressed immediately.

I always sex them as soon as I get them too and check for anything abnormal...

I also do the same thing before I ship an animal to a customer...

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I've had her for about 2 weeks now, and did look her over upon arrival... she was pretty scared & balled up, though, so I tried not to poke/prod too much. Although as I mentioned above, I did notice something off about her neck - but I thought it was just a skin fold, from being all squished inside the shipping box. I did take photos that day, which are posted somewhere on the photo forum, and you can see she looked okay in them.

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Originally Posted by zina10

Definitely a kink. The seller should have been honest about this, not cool at all !!
Something like that doesn't just pop up in shipping.

There is no way of knowing whether the kink is caused by temp. fluctuations during incubation, injury to the hatchling or some genetic defect in the snake. Personally, I wouldn't use her for breeding because of that.

She should have went on to a "pet home" with full disclosure and at a heavily discounted price.

Wait and see what the breeder will say. If he ignores you or isn't willing to fix this situation, take it to the BOI. You might never get resolution, but at least other people will be warned before purchasing from him/her.

I still can't believe you weren't told of this.

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Couldn't have said it better myself. Im really sorry to hear about your job. That really stinks :(. I am the same as you when it comes to giving people the benifit of the doubt and usually they make it right, so I hope that is the result in your case. At the same time, they had to notice the kink at one time or another. They might have been trying to take advantage of someone they thought "wouldn't know any better". I really hope the best for you and the BP. I really hope the Breeder does the right thing and makes it right being that she was purchased to be a breeder and if it were me in that situation I wouldn't use her for any projects. Sorry for the bad news but she is still a beautiful girl.

Well as much as i would also like to think people don't screw others over, it's happened to me toooo many times, so i don't take risks anymore.

I would immediately take this to the BOI, because the longer you wait, the harder it gets for you to get your money back. I would copy and paste all emails and photos you've ever took and send the link to the seller.

This is NOT NOT NOT an oversight, that is a pretty nasty kink and you wouldn't ever find me dead breeding her, i don't want to create more offspring with kinks. This is a serious matter and the seller needs to own up to it. Granted it's the holidays, but everyone can take 5 minutes to answer an email, so it does sound like he is avoiding you.

Like I said, get your post made up and post a thread in the BOI to get the ball rolling.

Im sorry but what is the BOI??? I have never heard of that I and I can't find anything on it. :confused:

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Originally Posted by BoaFreak

Im sorry but what is the BOI??? I have never heard of that I and I can't find anything on it. :confused:

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The BOI is the Board of Inquiry on Fauna Classifieds. This is where you go to post a thread saying a seller or buyer was a good guy or bad guy. Most of the threads are good guy threads, but a fair amount are bad guy threads. If your looking to purchase a snake from a breeder, search for their name on the BOI and see if people have had good or bad expieriences with them. Heres the link...

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...splay.php?f=13

Thats too big of a kink to be missed. Keep all your info and pictures, contacts. And be sure to wright down any phone calls. With any luck and a resopabale breed it will be resulved soon. Good luck.

Keep us updated on how this goes, really seems underhanded to sell you an animal like that and just hope you think it's pretty enough to make up for the kink or something

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Originally Posted by steveboos

The BOI is the Board of Inquiry on Fauna Classifieds. This is where you go to post a thread saying a seller or buyer was a good guy or bad guy. Most of the threads are good guy threads, but a fair amount are bad guy threads. If your looking to purchase a snake from a breeder, search for their name on the BOI and see if people have had good or bad expieriences with them. Heres the link...

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...splay.php?f=13

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AWESOME!!! Thanks abunch :gj:

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Originally Posted by Lolo76

Guess I'll wait a few more days for a response, then send a follow-up, and THEN take it to the BOI if I still haven't heard back... it is a holiday week, so hopefully that explains the delay in his reply. I am very upset about the whole situation, since I waited MONTHS for this girl and was extremely excited about her. I'd hate to send her back, but obviously I can't do much with a kinked breeder. :rolleyes:

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^^^ This. ^^^

It's a valid concern about going to the BOI and getting stomped for doing so. Not only do you need to have all your proof set up...you also need to have given the seller a chance to make it right first. If you jump onto the BOI and smear them before they have a chance to do right by you, then you 1.) make yourself look bad and 2.) reduce the chances that they'll be willing to work with you in the first place.

It IS a long holiday weekend, and there's a good chance that no one is checking e-mails right now. I'd wait until Monday...and e-mail again on Monday saying something along the lines of, "I know it's been a holiday weekend, and I've been as patient as I can be. But everyone should be back to work now and I need to hear back from you right away so we can work on a resolution to this problem. If I don't hear back from you by _____ then I will have to take this to the BOI."

I'd give them til Tuesday or Wednesday, depending on how patient you feel. And THEN go to the BOI.

It's true that the longer you wait to report the issue, the harder it is to get a fair resolution....but that would apply if you procrastinated and waited weeks and weeks or months....not just a few days to give the seller a chance to do right by you.

The biggest question you can expect BOI members to ask you...and the seller to bring up if he's being stubborn about fixing the issue...is "Can you prove the snake did not get injured while in your care???"

You can do some prep work here in this thread if you like...post up the pictures of the snake that the seller sent you before you bought it. And post up the pics you took as soon as you received the snake....and we can help you scour the pics for any evidence that the problem was there all along or if it might have developed after shipment.

It's quite possible that it's an injury and not a genetic defect at all. If you find yourself "stuck" with this animal....later in the year or next year...whenever your finances sort themselves out...have it x-rayed (if it hasn't resolved itself through the natural healing process). They might be able to tell you if it was/is broken bones or if there is a true defect in the bone structure. Might be worth the gamble if the animal is an important part of future breeding plans.

OH...and one last thought about taking this to the BOI. I totally understand where you're coming from regarding the financial sacrifice you made to buy this beauty...but it is completely irrelevant to a BOI claim and folks can be a bit harsh on someone who plays the "Woe is me, I have financial burdens" card when it was their own choices that put them in that position to begin with. I am NOT saying that's what you've done here, or how I see it....I'm just saying that is a likely scenario to play out on the BOI if you mention that personal side of this business problem.

I wish you all the best. Hopefully the seller will get back with you soon and make it all right without having to jump through any BOI hoops at all.

Thanks again, everyone... I'll give him through the weekend to respond, follow up, and then it's off to the BOI. I'm just really sad about the whole situation, since I have started to become attached - so it would be hard to just send her back like a piece of clothing. These are living creatures, ya know? :(

Btw, here are the photos he originally sent me - do you see any evidence of a kink? All I noticed was the dirty tub, but she looked beautiful & perfect to me.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...lesser16-1.jpg

This one almost looks weird, but her tail is just wrapped near her neck...
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...esser16-12.jpg

No I can't see any kinks in those pictures, if he actually took her out of the tub, it would be a lot easier. Heck i'm willing to take 1 minute and take the snake out of the tub to take a picture, especially for a $400 animal. Either this guy is so busy this is not possible, or he just doesn't care. Sellers make me wonder.

Keep up up to date on what you decide to do.

Thanks for the response JLC, and I found your advice to be very useful... don't worry, I wasn't planning to mention my personal financial/employment situation on the BOI! I've already become familiar with the attitudes on there, and would keep it as "sterile" and professional as possible. ;)

I posted the seller's photos above, and here are a few from the day she arrived at my house - you can see some evidence of the kink in these, so clearly it didn't happen in my care. And as I said, it did occur to me upon arrival, but I tried to convince myself it was just her squished position - was in denial, I suppose.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...4/P1040507.jpg

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...4/P1040509.jpg

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...4/P1040511.jpg

Unfortunately, the pre-sale pictures aren't conclusive at all. But, they don't rule it out, either. Both pics show the neck being held in the same position...which could indicate an existing problem...or it could just be a natural serpentine curve. They're more help than harm to your case, I believe...but not as much help as one would wish for.

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Originally Posted by steveboos

No I can't see any kinks in those pictures, if he actually took her out of the tub, it would be a lot easier. Heck i'm willing to take 1 minute and take the snake out of the tub to take a picture, especially for a $400 animal. Either this guy is so busy this is not possible, or he just doesn't care. Sellers make me wonder.

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Yeah, I thought that was odd too... I was only selling normal babies, and took photos out of the tub & from various angles. But once again, I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt! I'm really NOT that trusting of a person, to be honest, just fairly "wet behind the ears" in the snake hobby. I'm a fast learner and a fairly tough broad, however, so this will be dealt with somehow - that I promise.

The second "arrival" picture seems to show the best evidence. But if the seller had sent that exact same picture of her, would you have noticed the kink? I don't think I would have. It's easy to see how you would dismiss it as nothing, and put the animal away for a proper settling-in period.

I really do hope the seller is a good guy and is willing to work with you on this to reach a reasonable and fair solution.

Here's one more post-arrival photo, which shows it a little better... still not obvious as a defect, though, as JLC just stated above.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...P1040512-1.jpg

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Originally Posted by JLC

The second "arrival" picture seems to show the best evidence. But if the seller had sent that exact same picture of her, would you have noticed the kink? I don't think I would have. It's easy to see how you would dismiss it as nothing, and put the animal away for a proper settling-in period.

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Cool... good to know I wasn't in full-blown denial! I figured she was laying in a tight coil for the whole trip, and just had a small dent that would go away - like when you fall asleep in a weird position, and wake up with lines on your face. :D

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I really do hope the seller is a good guy and is willing to work with you on this to reach a reasonable and fair solution.

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So do I... he was fairly slow with emails throughout the sale, which is why I'm being more patient than usual. Hopefully he makes things right, but think I'll stick with known breeders (known either personally or by reputation) from now on.

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Originally Posted by Lolo76

So do I... he was fairly slow with emails throughout the sale, which is why I'm being more patient than usual. Hopefully he makes things right, but think I'll stick with known breeders (known either personally or by reputation) from now on.

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She IS exceptionally pretty and I know I'd've been tempted to go with a small, less-known breeder for a chance to score that kind of quality. And "small, less-known" doesn't mean anything regarding their character, despite what some cynical souls try to convince us. I've got hope that they'll work with you. :yes:

I have to say, I do see the kink in the photos the breeder took, but only because I know it's there--I know exactly where to look. I would never have suspected there was a kink based on those photos alone, either.

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Originally Posted by JLC

She IS exceptionally pretty and I know I'd've been tempted to go with a small, less-known breeder for a chance to score that kind of quality. And "small, less-known" doesn't mean anything regarding their character, despite what some cynical souls try to convince us. I've got hope that they'll work with you. :yes:

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As a new "small breeder" myself, I did - and still do - want to give the lesser-known folks a chance. Maybe I will again in the future, just with a more keen eye and better knowledge next time. And apparently you see why I was tempted by her! Even with the kink, I'm not sure I want to send her back... she's just beautiful to look at, regardless of any abnormalities. Would be a shame not to pass along those genes, though. :(

P.S. If I do decide to keep her and he offers compensation, what would be a fair refund? How much should a kinked (thus non-breeding) lesser girl sell for?

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Originally Posted by Lolo76

P.S. If I do decide to keep her and he offers compensation, what would be a fair refund? How much should a kinked (thus non-breeding) lesser girl sell for?

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I'm not sure. The possibility of her being able to breed in the future hasn't been ruled out in the first place. If kink is caused by an old injury, there's nothing that should prevent her from passing on her genes in the future.

If the seller is willing to consider giving you the option of a partial refund and you keep her...or a full refund and you send her back....then I think only you can decide what is fair in your own heart. How much is she WORTH to you to keep with the distinct possibility of never breeding her?

It may be an academic question anyhow. The seller may offer $xx partial refund, and you can either take it or leave it. Obviously, anything would be better than nothing.

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Originally Posted by JLC

I'm not sure. The possibility of her being able to breed in the future hasn't been ruled out in the first place. If kink is caused by an old injury, there's nothing that should prevent her from passing on her genes in the future.

If the seller is willing to consider giving you the option of a partial refund and you keep her...or a full refund and you send her back....then I think only you can decide what is fair in your own heart. How much is she WORTH to you to keep with the distinct possibility of never breeding her?

It may be an academic question anyhow. The seller may offer $xx partial refund, and you can either take it or leave it. Obviously, anything would be better than nothing.

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I do have a dollar amount in mind, based on what I'd personally sell a kinked lesser for... but we'll see what he offers, if anything. As for the "to breed or not to breed" question, I do have a really good local herp vet - so if I'm still in this area (and still have her) when she's older, maybe I'll get an X-Ray to help determine the cause.

id keep it! i know its somewhat sick but it makes it special and i would be at ease to know that if i have it, she would get the extra care that is needed :(

As I see it, unless the breeder can show a picture of her neck held straight, the breeder photos, your arrival photos, and your kink photos is plenty of evidence that this is not something that happened in your care. All the photos you showed here has the neck in that s-shape which shows ZERO proof that she was not kinked prior to shipping.

My take on the matter: I'd ask for some money back plus the cost of x-ray so you can decide whether to breed or not. Or get a full refund and ship the snake back. At this point, if the breeder decides he would rather take the snake back, you should go ahead and do so even though you have gotten attached to her. It's fair to the breeder that has tried to make it right. As a breeder, I wouldn't want a customer holding a kinked snake that she can show off to other people with my name attached to it, ya know what I mean?

That sucks, :(

But how likely is it that any kinks are actually genetic?

I know certain morphs are known to be more likely to kink but lesser isn't one of them.

Could it be simply an incubation induced defect?

Or even an injury that happened very early on in her life?

I absolutely think you should have been told about this when you bought her though.

I would probably give the seller a whole week to respond and try and work something out before going to the BOI - your being open, honest and reasonable in this will only help. I would also recommend a thicker skin than normal and just answering the questions no matter the manner in which they are asked. ;)

If the seller does resond to your email then try and find out as much information about the possible causes as possible - were any others in this clutch or any other unrelated clutch also kinked or did he have a higher than usual number of dead in eggs for example (might point to incubation problems).

Also ask if he has any other photos showing the neck in different positions for the same animal regardless of the age at the time - it may point to it being an injury during an attempt at force or assist feeding.


dr del

I too would give them till Monday or Tuesday to respond just because of the long weekend.
Then what ever wait time after that is up to you.
Also this pic the breeder sent you may show it, I cannot clean it up enough to tell if its the tip of the tail or the kink (under enough zoom to tell it pixelates too bad)
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h1...prowl/Kink.jpg

Next question is, how attached are you already? Are you going to worry about what happens to her if he gets her back? Some people treat their animals as just dollar signs! (I had a partner of mine want to breed one of my APBTs that was in the middle of heartworm treatment just because she was in heat!!:mad:)

Third and final, Is it possible to get an x-ray done NOW just to see what is going on inside her? I dont know what it takes to x-ray a snake but it would help you to inform yourself and see if there might be signs of injury and not genetics.

I wish you luck and please keep us informed of the outcome.

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Originally Posted by dembonez

id keep it! i know its somewhat sick but it makes it special and i would be at ease to know that if i have it, she would get the extra care that is needed :(

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Thats all fine and dandy, but the OP paid more than market value for an above average female lesser with the intent to BREED her. This kink really compromises these plans.

When buying animals, this is a possibility (honest seller accidentally overlooking something (( after all, we are only human)) or a dishonest breeder intentionally not mentioning something ).

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Originally Posted by dr del

That sucks, :(

But how likely is it that any kinks are actually genetic?

I know certain morphs are known to be more likely to kink but lesser isn't one of them.

Could it be simply an incubation induced defect?

Or even an injury that happened very early on in her life?

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Thanks for your advice (in the rest of your post), and I too am leaning more towards an incubation error or injury... he still should have told me, shouldn't have charged full price, etc. etc. Plus I'd like to hear his take on the causes, and have him answer the questions you suggested - I'll let you know if/when he responds!

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Originally Posted by cinderbird

Thats all fine and dandy, but the OP paid more than market value for an above average female lesser with the intent to BREED her. This kink really compromises these plans.

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Exactly. After "shopping" for lessers for months, I chose her specifically for the breeding potential & quality... I have a proven breeder Mojave male, and was REALLY looking forward to making BELs with her. Even though it was a financial stretch, I figured "at least it's a good investment, so I'll eventually make that money back - and then some." All of my snakes are still beloved pets, but I also saw her as an investment, and now those plans are in jeopardy. Besides, if I wanted a rescue I could have gotten one for free on Craigslist. :cool:

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When buying animals, this is a possibility (honest seller accidentally overlooking something (( after all, we are only human)) or a dishonest breeder intentionally not mentioning something ).

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While I said earlier I'm not that trusting, I am very forgiving... so if it was a mistake/oversight, I will forgive and forget with proper compensation. :gj:

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

I too would give them till Monday or Tuesday to respond just because of the long weekend.
Then what ever wait time after that is up to you.
Also this pic the breeder sent you may show it, I cannot clean it up enough to tell if its the tip of the tail or the kink (under enough zoom to tell it pixelates too bad)

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Pretty sure that's just her tail... and probably what I assumed when I first saw the picture.

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Next question is, how attached are you already? Are you going to worry about what happens to her if he gets her back? Some people treat their animals as just dollar signs! (I had a partner of mine want to breed one of my APBTs that was in the middle of heartworm treatment just because she was in heat!!:mad:)

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Some people! :mad: I'm definitely not one of those, and get emotionally attached to ALL of my animals... they are beloved family pets first, and breeders (in the case of my snakes) second. I've only had Cordelia for 2 weeks now, so the attachment isn't all that strong - but I would ask his plans for her if she's returned, and keep her if he offered a reasonable refund.

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Third and final, Is it possible to get an x-ray done NOW just to see what is going on inside her? I dont know what it takes to x-ray a snake but it would help you to inform yourself and see if there might be signs of injury and not genetics.

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I don't have any extra money right now (unless it was an emergency), but maybe I'll call the vet and inquire about X-rays... if the cost isn't too much, I would consider doing that in the near future.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

I too would give them till Monday or Tuesday to respond just because of the long weekend.
Then what ever wait time after that is up to you.
Also this pic the breeder sent you may show it, I cannot clean it up enough to tell if its the tip of the tail or the kink (under enough zoom to tell it pixelates too bad)
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h1...prowl/Kink.jpg

Next question is, how attached are you already? Are you going to worry about what happens to her if he gets her back? Some people treat their animals as just dollar signs! (I had a partner of mine want to breed one of my APBTs that was in the middle of heartworm treatment just because she was in heat!!:mad:)

Third and final, Is it possible to get an x-ray done NOW just to see what is going on inside her? I dont know what it takes to x-ray a snake but it would help you to inform yourself and see if there might be signs of injury and not genetics.

I wish you luck and please keep us informed of the outcome.

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I know someone on Fauna will point this out, so I'll do it just so you're not blind sided.

The circled part to me looks like her tail. However, the kink could still be in that photo, because it's not as strong on the showing side than the other side. It's still curved the way it shows in Lolo's pictures, it just doesn't show the extra skin side. And, to someone amazed by the quality of the animal and not being warned there might be a defect, I highly doubt alot of people would notice it.

I hope this gets resolved in your favor!

Any updates Lolo?

get a resulation on this yet.
Steve

Nope, no news as of yet... I sent him a follow-up email & photos the other day, but still haven't heard back. He has another week to respond, and then I'm taking it to the next level. :mad:

Btw, is this something PayPal might cover? I had a snake never arrive once, and PayPal refunded 100% of my money ($100) without questions... I wonder if this would qualify, maybe as "item received not as described?" I'd rather deal with them than the BOI, since it's not like anyone on Fauna can give me a refund.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lolo76

Btw, is this something PayPal might cover? I had a snake never arrive once, and PayPal refunded 100% of my money ($100) without questions... I wonder if this would qualify, maybe as "item received not as described?" I'd rather deal with them than the BOI, since it's not like anyone on Fauna can give me a refund.

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PayPal might refund as long as they know your item was "not as described" and "broken" with no further contact from the seller.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lolo76

Btw, is this something PayPal might cover? I had a snake never arrive once, and PayPal refunded 100% of my money ($100) without questions... I wonder if this would qualify, maybe as "item received not as described?" I'd rather deal with them than the BOI, since it's not like anyone on Fauna can give me a refund.

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I got a gecko once that was really messed up. I filed though Paypal "item not as described" as the seller was unwilling to work with me. Paypal denyed my claim stating that they only cover "items not as described" for items purchased through ebay. It's been about 2 years so I don't know if the policy has changed.