My big disappointment.....

As I posted on this forum about my excitement to add two RTB's to my existing two Ball Pythons - well, I got them and now am regretting doing it.

I don't know if I got sooo used to my two bp's that are absolutely the most friendly, docile creatures you could ask for. I strictly keep my snakes for pets so friendliness is very important.

So anyway, I got the RTB's and am not thrilled with their demeanor - they tend to be very pissy and will not hesitate to strike at me. When I do manage to get them out of their enclosure - they flail around at first to the point where I can barely hold on to them and they are only 4-5feet long at this point - I can't imagine if they act like this when they are 6-7 feet long. I live alone so I have to be able to handle my pets on my own.

I called a breeder friend of mine and discussed the situation with him - he did say that he would swap the boas out for another bp that I want - I feel bad doing this but at this point I am not enjoying the boas at all - I've had them now for three months.

Any advice or helpful suggestions or maybe some support in my decision to swap the boas out for a more manageable bp.

Thanks everyone.

I would trade them for the BP:D, but I am not a fan of the large snakes. Honestly though I would try handling them more first, Then if its not really gonna work trade. I wouldnt have a pet that I am afraid of.

This is one of the biggest reasons I've found that when getting into the larger snakes for the first time you should start off with neos. If you jump right into getting one that is already 4-5' long then you really have no control over how it was raised or handled previously, thus can end up with a really pissy large snake that can do some damage.
I purchased both of my rtbs as babies and neither of them give me any attitude. And at 8' and 20 lbs for my largest rtb I am very glad of that because there is no way someone of my size could handle a snake that large going crazy on me.
So I wouldn't necessarily let these current rtbs turn you off of them completely. But maybe consider starting off with neos and raising them up yourself so you can actually control them and end up with large docile rtbs rather than psychotic hissy ones.

I've read a lot that turning a boa into a more mellow snakes is a slow rewarding process. Sure some people luck out and get a mellow boa right of the bat, but there are always the more "wild" ones.

In the other hand the last BP I purchased, a Fire Female, she is 200g of pure EVIL!. I had never heard a snake hiss before, I been keeping snakes for 1+ year. She hisses all the time and when she doesn't hiss, she is trying to run away.

I think with every snake you purchase there is always the chance of a long term "mellowing" process. Anyways, I'm liking dealing with an "Angry Snake" I think it teaches a lot of what a snake really is, not the cute reptiles pups WE want them to be... :)

Thanks to ed4281 and Aleria for your insight. I am waiting to see what the breeder has to offer me in trade - and then I will make my decision. I do think I would have better luck in raising one up from a baby but I didn't have a small enough cage - which is why I went with an already established 2 year old. Live and learn I guess.

I am very happy with my bp's so I do think I will stick with them - a little easier for me to handle by myself in the long term.

As a note, a baby boa will do fine in the same size cage as any size bp(unless of course you use massive cages for your adults), at least in my experience.
Hopefully working with that breeder will help you make your decision.

danounet, I do worry about having the bad luck of my next bp having an attitude - my first two were such good pets - never any aggression.

I am sooo torn because if I thought I could turn these two RTB's around - I think I would give it a try. They arent horrible - but they do have the tendency to "s" up and prepare to strike when I reach in to get them to the point where I get a snake hook to move them closer to the door and then reach in and get them - at this point is where they try like hell to escape - my bp's never do that.

To Aleria, the only size cages I have are the RBI cages. I have 3' x 2' and
4' x 2' - would the 3' size work if I supplied ample hides and greenery??

I thought I read that baby RTB's were very snippy - was this false information.

Thx

Just another thought - if I do decide to get a bp - what moderately priced morph do you guys think would be a good addition. I currently have a male Ghost and a female Normal.

Keep in mind - I do not intend to breed - just pets.

Thanks.

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Originally Posted by L.West

danounet, I do worry about having the bad luck of my next bp having an attitude - my first two were such good pets - never any aggression.

I am sooo torn because if I thought I could turn these two RTB's around - I think I would give it a try. They arent horrible - but they do have the tendency to "s" up and prepare to strike when I reach in to get them to the point where I get a snake hook to move them closer to the door and then reach in and get them - at this point is where they try like hell to escape - my bp's never do that.

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Have you noticed any improvements?

With a little extra in the cage to make it seem smaller a 3'x2' would work, it's obviously not perfect, but it will work. I started mine in a 2.5'x1.5' sweater box to start and ran into no issues there.
And also yes, you were given false info if you were told that ALL baby rtbs are snippy. One of my was the first week I had him, my other was the sweetest little thing from day one. You can't ever definitively say that ALL of one type of snake is going to act a certain way, they are all individual living things after all and will have their own personalities. Just like some never tame down no matter how skilled the owner is, that's just the way things are when it comes to living creatures.

Also, not sure what you consider moderate as far as price goes but I know I personally have fallen in love with a lot of the different bees out there :) if I had the spare cash I'd have one in my hands right now.

To Danounet - no improvement, they basically don't want me bothering them.

To Aleria - thanks for the help. At least I am more aware of what my options are in going forward. In regards to price of a new bp - I would like to stay around the $300 mark.

Well i got my baby and when i first take him out he goes crazy real flighty. But he mellows out and just explores around. They may never calm down or he may calm down with more handling.

If they never settle down - how would a person handle them by oneself when they get to be full grown - my god - my 5 footer is pretty strong right now when she trys to flee.

I have 2 RTB's a neonate female that is sweet as pie very docile and loves to be held. My 4ft male on the other hand is a recent addition that lacked proper care before I got him. He goes through mood swings and sometimes hisses and strikes when I go to get him, but with patience he is getting better. He loves my girlfriend though and has never hissed or striked at her. Every RTB is going to be a little different but I would definately start with a neonate and or exchange them for a BP.

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Originally Posted by L.West

If they never settle down - how would a person handle them by oneself when they get to be full grown - my god - my 5 footer is pretty strong right now when she trys to flee.

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How long are you handling them? And how often? And how are u handling them?

I only handle my snakes once or twice a week maximum because I don't want to stress them out. For the most part - if I am able to get them out without getting bit - then they will settle down if I continue to hold them. The problem I have is their reluctance to even be picked up - I feel bad for making them be picked up when it is clear they do not want it - they will try to scramble away as fast as they can - they must be scared.

over time with frequent (2-3 x per week) handling they will likely calm down for the most part.

However, if you don't want to have to deal with the inevitable bad hair day of a big boa, there's no shame in trading for a BP. Everyone has their limits, likes, and dislikes.

In my case, I am probably more like you - what I did was buy a BCA that will always stay smaller than my BP - he has his moments of thrashing but the small size makes it OK for me to handle on my own.

There's nothing quite like a BP :D
If you're interested in trying other placid, docile snakes, a Woma Python might be something to check out.

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Originally Posted by L.West

I feel bad for making them be picked up when it is clear they do not want it - they will try to scramble away as fast as they can - they must be scared.

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It's always admirable to try to put your snake's needs first :gj:
However, in my experience I have found that a snake (especially a boa) will fight you coming out of the cage because that's his 'safe' territory. Once out of his turf he's quite interested in exploring and not so stressy anymore.
Hook training might also help with the cage shyness, since it will teach him what to expect a little.

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Originally Posted by fishmommy

It's always admirable to try to put your snake's needs first :gj:
However, in my experience I have found that a snake (especially a boa) will fight you coming out of the cage because that's his 'safe' territory. Once out of his turf he's quite interested in exploring and not so stressy anymore.
Hook training might also help with the cage shyness, since it will teach him what to expect a little.

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Agreed. When it comes to any of the larger snakes it can always be a bit awkward getting them out of the cage in comparison to something as small as a bp because of the fact that you are left trying to maneuver them out so they will usually be little snots and try to turn around and put their head right back in the cage.
I have that little fight with my hog girl almost every time I get her out, I'll get out the front half of her body, and then she'll turn around and stick her head right back in as I'm pulling out her back half. Trying to put her back in once I've had her out cuddling for a while gets the same result, get one half in and the other half comes right back out :P

Thanks to all of you who have chimed in to help me out with this problem. I do think that to a certain degree - I have become afraid of them because of the attempts to strike at me - thus stressing myself out when I need or want to hold them - thus taking all the enjoyment out of having them strictly as pets.

Maybe I am too wussy for an RTB!!!!

I am working closely with the breeder to come to a good solution.

I so appreciate all of your help and support.

If possible you should see if the breeder has any calmer RTB's in stock and see if you would be able to go there and pick one out for yourself. I would have to see and get a feel for the snakes personality before buying a snake that gets that large :D

Mine do the same thing. It's just the difference in Boa and Ball defense. When BP's feel threatened they ball up. When boas feel threatened they S up. When that doesn't work, their tendency is to try and run. After a few minutes they calm down. Mine aren't even a year old yet and I'm already hook training them. I try not to reach directly in the enclosures at them and don't hook and jerk them too fast. I try to use the hook to coerce them into going where I want them. There is definitely a technique to it. What I do is try and hook them about 1/3 the way down their body. That way, even when they S, the hook will be just behind it and you can keep them moving in the direction you want. I keep the hook in whichever hand is on the same side as their head. Once I have their head and S out I reach in with the other hand and slide it under their belly about half way down or so that I can lift and work the rest of their body out. Once I have them out I set the hook down and raise my free hand up under them to about whre the hook was or so. I'm sure there are alot of different ways to do it, but this is what seems to be working for me and my snakes. I don't worry about getting bit by mine because they are still small enough to not do much, if any, damage. Since yours are older and pack more of a punch, you might try using a leather work glove on your hook hand and wearing long sleeves until they get used to it. I only suggest wearing a glove on which ever hand is using the hook and you should be able to take it off once you get the snake out. If you wear gloves on both hands then you may end up squeezing them harder than you think. I hope you get it worked out so you can start enjoying your boas...

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Originally Posted by L.West

Thanks to all of you who have chimed in to help me out with this problem. I do think that to a certain degree - I have become afraid of them because of the attempts to strike at me - thus stressing myself out when I need or want to hold them - thus taking all the enjoyment out of having them strictly as pets.

Maybe I am too wussy for an RTB!!!!

I am working closely with the breeder to come to a good solution.

I so appreciate all of your help and support.

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NOOOO...you just need the right RTB. I went from a colubrid to a RTB, that's quite a transition. I only did it though because the RTB I found was so "sweet" in nature. She didn't mind her head being touched, she was curious and all that.

She has never tried to strike at me, but when she's shedding, I leave her alone. She'll let you know with a loud hiss that she doesn't want to be bothered when she's shedding. But right after shed, she's begging for a meal.

The strangest thing about this whole ordeal is that when I held each of my RTB's at the show (my RTB are brother & sister) they were just as calm as can be - but the breeder tells me that because they are at cooler temps inside the show - the cooler temps will calm them a bit.

Do boas tend to S up and hiss when u try to reach in for em? When i reach in for my guy he turns the other way and tries to run lol.

@ L.West

Does he calm down at all when he is out? My guy calms down a bit but still wants to get away

Yes, both my RTB's will "s" up when I attempt to reach in their cage. Once I do get them out - they are better but still not calm like my bps are.

I much prefer the temperment of my bps - they will hang around on your shoulders forever if you let them.

I had a similer problem but one that was my own fault. One of my super dwarf retics was spooked by my son and bit me. Prior to this she was sweet and tame. For a long time I had to use a hook to get her out. These guys are flighty anyway but she was terrible after that. It took a couple months but I finally got to where I can take her out without the hook without worrying about being bitten. She is still more flighty than before but Im earning her trust back. Of my 2 boas, the female is flighty and will strike when you try to take her out. They are not for everyone but the bigger snakes can be so rewarding with time and experience. If you trade yours and you ever plan to try again just be sure to get a baby. Maybe go to a show so you can handle different boas and interact with them before making a decision.

Yea iv held many boas and they are more flighty/active then bps. But some are just wild. Our's is wild when hes out but after a few mins he calms down a bit. But if you spook him at all he starts to get wild again.

Maybe you can trade yours in for a baby?

I have a male rtb that i took in a year ago he is approx 3.5 yrs old, he has cage aggression something fierce, it took time but now he is very docile when out of his enclosure.

Also have a 6.5 foot female that was acquired last Aug. at a show, we should have named her speedy, she used to be all over the place when taken out of her enclosure, but would settle down after about 10 minutes or so. Now when we take her out she will just lay on the bed with you.

How often were these rtb's handled prior to your acquiring them?

Just give it time, they will settle down, but you have to consistent with the handling schedules. just start off with a few minutes per day, and increase from there.

Good luck if you decide to keep them.

I dont want to defer people away from this site but i would also ask over at

http://www.redtailboas.com

So saying people here are not helpful but there are more "boa people" over there :gj:

Good luck asking over there. As a "newbie", every post or thread you start has to go through moderation which can take a day. But I don't see why you would need to go over there...they have boas and some of us have boas. I am registered there and posted there but don't quite like the atmosphere.

Hi Everyone,

I am still trying to decide on how to proceed. Over last couple of days I've noticed that the main issue is trying to get them out of their cage - they just seem to want to escape from me - but if I use the hook to move them to the front of the cage and then reach in and pick them up it seems to go fine, once they are out and being held they seem to calm down.

Do you guys think that if I hold them more often it would get them used to being held and curb the cage aggression?? My only worry with that is that I would be stressing them out too often and may have a reverse effect on them.

Your thoughts.

Quite often I get mine out of their cage with a hook whether they are acting aggressive or not. With larger snakes it makes it much easier to move them into a better position like you are doing to pull them quickly and safely out of the cage. So it may just be a matter of needing to use the hook to pull them out each time.
But of course I'd say depending on the type of cage it's probably better that way anyways. When mine are all the way against the back of the cage I don't exactly feel comfortable sticking half my body in the cage to get a good hold on them to pull them out.

Hey aleria,

Have yours ever struck at you?? Mine are only two years old and I have only had them a short time and each one has struck at me at least once. The male struck at me because he was in shed so I didn't think too much about that but the female seems like when I open her cage she watches my every move - like she is ready to pounce.

I think alot of the fear is now built up in my head so I expect something bad to happen. I have never felt that way with my bp's.

When I think about giving them up I feel sooo guilty - it goes against everything I believe to just "quit" on your pets but then I start thinking that I have to make the right decision for everyone involved. I am soooo torn right now on what is the right decision.

Both have struck and both have tagged, and each time it was a mistake on my part. Usually reaching in and just grabbing them without making sure they were awake or aware of me, or trying to move them a little too fast and scaring them, etc.
Truthfully, my most recent tag was from my big girl just this past sunday, didn't even notice she got me until I saw the blood. But at not one point did it hurt, even after the fact. And again that time it was just a matter of her being a little too big for me to comfortably handle by myself so when putting her back in her cage she flailed her head backward trying to come back out, I had my hands full with the bulk of her body and her face hit my arm and she just happened to have her mouth open.
I was also so afraid of being bit by any of the snakes, and even now if I am feeling a little nervous because of a look they are giving me, that's when I'm sure to grab the hook to get them out instead :)
Once you've had it happen a time or two, just like everyone else will tell you, it will happen and you'll laugh at how silly it seemed to be so afraid.

I almost wish it would happen and get over with - I've got this idea in my mind that it is going to be so horrible - I've never been tagged so I have no idea and I've built up this fear/anxiety over it.

Another thing I do and I know it is wrong to think this way especially with a pet snake but if they were to bite me or not want me to hold them - I tend to take it personally like my own pet doesn't like me and I know that is sooo silly with a snake because they cant even rationalize feelings like that - but that is just how I am - I get hurt feelings if my own pet hates me - LOL.

I am still talking with the breeder on how to proceed - no final decisions have been made. I think I will spend some more time with them this weekend to see how things go and to see if I can work on getting my comfort level where it needs to be to enjoy them.

Thanks for your help.

Yeah, it definitely sounds like a good idea to see where things are going. And it is a good sign that outside of the cage they are calm enough to allow you to hold them. I know some snakes are flighty and hissy both inside and out. So it does bode well that they just seem a little tense when initially getting them out of the cage.

Thanks again for your help. I am attending a reptile show tomorrow and my breeder friend will be there to discuss my options. Hopefully whatever decision is made - that is best for everyone involved.

yup I agree with you BP is the tamest snake in the world (although I got attacked twice lol)

I just adopt 2 new bci columbian boa. the first one is become so aggresive and hissing trying to attack me. but now if he looks angry I would put my hand away from him. Once he is calm, I grab his belly and he never strike at me anymore. :)

Well, I made my decision and opted to trade in my RTB's but I did get a new Male Mojave - he is super sweet.

After struggling on what to do - I am happy now that I've traded them in - I think the Bp's are more my style.

Thanks everyone for your input.

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Originally Posted by Aleria

With a little extra in the cage to make it seem smaller a 3'x2' would work, it's obviously not perfect, but it will work. I started mine in a 2.5'x1.5' sweater box to start and ran into no issues there.
And also yes, you were given false info if you were told that ALL baby rtbs are snippy. One of my was the first week I had him, my other was the sweetest little thing from day one. You can't ever definitively say that ALL of one type of snake is going to act a certain way, they are all individual living things after all and will have their own personalities. Just like some never tame down no matter how skilled the owner is, that's just the way things are when it comes to living creatures.

Also, not sure what you consider moderate as far as price goes but I know I personally have fallen in love with a lot of the different bees out there :) if I had the spare cash I'd have one in my hands right now.

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Every snake does have their own personality. I have a hypo boa and he's the most bitey snake I own, hense is name is Striker, but I have 2 other RTBs and they are awesome!

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Originally Posted by Aleria

This is one of the biggest reasons I've found that when getting into the larger snakes for the first time you should start off with neos.

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Agreed. Personally, I actually find boas much more enjoyable to handle than BPs; they are generally MUCH more relaxed than BPs. Don't get me wrong, I love my BPs, it's just that they're so jumpy and skittish. My boa on the other hand is completely relaxed. In fact, she's fast asleep around my neck at this very moment. :D I don't choose favorites, but if I did... ;)

Ultimately, it comes down to how often they've been handled. I've had my boa since she was a tiny thing and handle her very frequently. I've been bit once (and that was no fault of hers, I totally deserved it). I've got a BP who I bought as a 3 year old and had never been handled. She used to be nasty. Your boas were probably in a similar situation. The thing with hatchlings is that, even if they are a bit nippy, they're easy to socialize in a short amount of time. It takes much longer with older snakes.

I'm very glad to hear you ended up in a situation that you are happy with. Don't judge the entire boa species by a few individuals, though. Maybe sometime in the future you might try again with a smaller boa that would be more docile. They are truly amazing companions! :)

I think you should expand your ball python collection, I honostly dont like larger snakes. Ball pythons are just awsome in general, I like having snakes I can handle to.

Well good luck making decision!
-Payson

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Originally Posted by Paysons Bps

I like having snakes I can handle to.

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That almost sounds like you're saying large boas can't be handled, although I could be mistaken. I mean if a little girl like me can handle my 8' 20 lb girl on a regular basis as I do , even just for cuddles, then I really fail to see how large boas could be considered unhandle-able in comparison to bps.:confuzd:

Thanks to all of you who chimed in to help me out with this decision. As I posted earlier I did end up trading the two RTB's for one Male Mojave BP and I couldn't be happier with him. He is very docile and is a good eater - he ate his first meal after only 4 days of coming home with me and eats each week since. He is very good about being handled and is currently thriving in a 4' x 2' cage with lots of logs and greenery to make it feel smaller - he weighs 760 grams at this point.

My real problem now is getting that female of mine to eat again - she's been off feed since the 2nd week of December - I just don't understand her. Both my males are eating just fine.

I like my redtail more than my bp. I think its much more calm and doesnt jump around as much. I think it flailing when you take it out is just the snake trying to get a firm secure grasp on you. They are climbing snakes and much more muscular than the hole dwelling ball python. Sounds to me like you just got a neglected (as an infant) redtail that now has an attitude. Good luck, I hope everything works out well for you and them.

here she is btw :)
http://i46.tinypic.com/f2vcpt.jpg

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Originally Posted by Aleria

But maybe consider starting off with neos and raising them up yourself so you can actually control them and end up with large docile rtbs rather than psychotic hissy ones.

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You know my wife??