Culling mutated hatchlings:

Hi, I was wondering what methods would be considered 'humane' for culling a hatchling that was born with a life-threatening illness or mutation. I understand that many people feel this is wrong, I'm not looking for a response as to why it may be wrong. For those of you that have had to cull a hatchling before, what was your approach?

I have had to do that same thing for animals in the past and I was always told the freezer works best. That's what I have done and to me I feel it works best. Best of luck.

The freezer is very inhumane--the animals will suffer pain. How much pain do you feel just being outside long enough for your feet to go numb? Reptiles do not hibernate--they brumate, remaining conscious through the whole thing.

If avoiding suffering is your primary concern, and not secondary to your own feelings, then completely destroying the animal's brain with a sharp blow from a very heavy, large object will be a humane way to euthanize it. There is some question as to how humane some veterinary drugs are for reptiles, as they can take quite some time to kill the animal. Reptiles, with their very slow metabolism, cannot even be counted on to die quickly if you cut off their head!

In my opinion, total destruction of the brain is the most humane method. It's absolutely horrifying to have to do that, but you can be sure that it's instant and painless.

I would say a cleaver to the back of the neck where the head and body meet. Less gory I would think and would do the same thing.
Knocking him out with CO2 or N20 first would be better though.
I mean you could just let them go in the wild....

WingedWolfPsion please do not think I do it often, I was merely told that from a few people. I only suggested what was told to me based off of how the information was presented to me. I'm glad there was more input other then myself, the information you gave was not known to myself.

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Originally Posted by Vader6

I would say a cleaver to the back of the neck where the head and body meet. Less gory I would think and would do the same thing.
Knocking him out with CO2 or N20 first would be better though.
I mean you could just let them go in the wild....

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Its NEVER a good idea to release any reptile in the wild! Its ideas like this that might cause us to lose our reptiles :mad:

I have culled deformed hatchlings by freezing them. My thoughts are since they are cold blooded and small that they freeze very quickly. I do not think that C02 would be a good bet since they do not breathe very often. It would probably take days to put them to sleep.

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Knocking him out with CO2 or N20 first would be better though.

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I was under the impression that snakes are not effected/overcome by the CO2 fast enough, thus it doesn't work effectively.

I guess total brain destruction would be most humane for the snake, it makes sense that beheading a snake could be inhumane, as their head may still live even after separation: I heard that a human head is still alive for just a few seconds after being beheaded, but I don't think anybody's signed up to prove that theory ;)

Do the snakes die in a freezer prior to their body actually freezing and forming crystals? Or is it the actual freezing part that kills them?

If I ever need to do this myself with any of my reptiles, I will be taking it to the vet to be put down. My vet has decades of experience with reptiles, and I trust him completely.

Freezing, as WingedWolfPsion said, is inhumane, as are most other "home" methods, including CO2. Besides, it's not like euthanasia is horribly expensive. (It's only $11 here; I've had to put down a couple geckos.)

DB, I wasn't judging your action, merely giving you the info. Even vets used to recommend freezing for reptile euthanasia. Further study on it showed that reptiles do not simply go to sleep in the freezer, but very likely suffer. This fact isn't widely known in the herp community yet.

Due to their extremely low oxygen needs and overall hardiness, reptiles are just hard to humanely euthanize.

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Originally Posted by Eventide

If I ever need to do this myself with any of my reptiles, I will be taking it to the vet to be put down. My vet has decades of experience with reptiles, and I trust him completely.

Freezing, as WingedWolfPsion said, is inhumane, as are most other "home" methods, including CO2. Besides, it's not like euthanasia is horribly expensive. (It's only $11 here; I've had to put down a couple geckos.)

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I took a large lizard to be euthanized by a vet. The vet was unable to find the blood vessel when injecting the chemical, so then had to do it orally. The animal took several minutes to die, I will never do that again.

JonV

Destroying brain tissue is the best way to euthanize any highly developed animal organism, if your concern is to limit both intensity and time elapsed for any suffering.

Anything else is solely for the benefit of the executioner.

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

DB, I wasn't judging your action, merely giving you the info. Even vets used to recommend freezing for reptile euthanasia. Further study on it showed that reptiles do not simply go to sleep in the freezer, but very likely suffer. This fact isn't widely known in the herp community yet.

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I would guess they are unable to process this suffering due to slowed body processes, including the capacity for handling information. This is only my conjecture.

JonV

Only thing I don't like about vet euthanasia is that they inject the heart with a heavy sedative.

My vet told me that it's kind of hit and miss sometimes as to it's effectiveness.

I'd want something that was bulletproof, yet humane.

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Originally Posted by 2kdime

Only thing I don't like about vet euthanasia is that they inject the heart with a heavy sedative.

My vet told me that it's kind of hit and miss sometimes as to it's effectiveness.

I'd want something that was bulletproof, yet humane.

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Quite frankly, if the vet doesn't know how to properly euthanize a reptile, then I'd be kinda hesitant to go to that vet....

No, sometimes the sedative isn't quite strong enough...so you give them more. This is what my reptile vet does. Reptiles are quite sensitive to sedatives; too much and they die. If the reptile just goes unconscious, then it wasn't given enough, and the vet gives it more. Once the reptile is sedated, it's not going to feel anything anymore.

what about feeding them to canibalistic snakes? i.e. kings, milks, king cobras?

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Originally Posted by cerastesruber

what about feeding them to canibalistic snakes? i.e. kings, milks, king cobras?

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I've known a few hot keeper who feed less-than-perfect ball pythons to king cobras. I dont think of it any differently than feeding off rodents.

Feeding it to another snake is not humane, but it is (in my opinion) acceptable--the animal's life is going to feed another in that case. But what is acceptable to some people will not be acceptable to others.

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Originally Posted by joepythons

Its NEVER a good idea to release any reptile in the wild! Its ideas like this that might cause us to lose our reptiles :mad:

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If it's going to die anywhere then there is no reason that it will become an invasive species to the area around it. Further more a BP will never be an issue even if they were released they are purely rodent eaters and don't get big enough to cause any issues to begin with. BP's might be taken away b/c of it's larger counter part snake brothers. BP's don't get big enough not to have a predator. Back on point I said to release it b/c if it had a illness that will cause it to die anyway might as well let it live out it's very short life exploring. Personal opinion.

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Originally Posted by Vader6

If it's going to die anywhere then there is no reason that it will become an invasive species to the area around it. Further more a BP will never be an issue even if they were released they are purely rodent eaters and don't get big enough to cause any issues to begin with. BP's might be taken away b/c of it's larger counter part snake brothers. BP's don't get big enough not to have a predator. Back on point I said to release it b/c if it had a illness that will cause it to die anyway might as well let it live out it's very short life exploring. Personal opinion.

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Except that's not the point.

The fact is that most people who are making laws to ban snakes don't see anything beyond the 'PYTHON' and immediately have flashbacks to films like Anaconda... They are usually uneducated in terms of snake behaviour and species characteristics... and honestly, its been shown that they really don't care. Hence the random,vague and obscure conditions of snake bans in both Canada and the USA

Even if a snake only gets 4-5 feet, its still a threat to the natural environment. There are little FROGS and small insects that have caused HUGE issues... maybe a BP will not, but lets not give lawmakers the opportunity to nix owning ball pythons too!

NO Reptile Keeper or Exotic keeper should EVER be advocating the release of non-native species... Especially in the political environment that exists around Reptiles, Snakes and their breeding and ownership.

Just my opinion also.... :rolleyes:

Hi,

Terrible idea for several reasons.

If someone finds it before it dies the we are right back to the bad for the hobby argument.

If it can't survive to become and invasive species because of the environment then you are intentionally putting it into an environment knowing it will kill it - hardly a charitable act.

If, as you are discussing, the animal is ill/ deformed then you are not magically excused from your duty of care. Putting it out into the wild is not caring for it. Either help it live happily or help it die humanely.

It is also, in all likelyhood, completely illegal to release it into the wild.


dr del

If I may ask, what is the actual reason of you having to do this?

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Originally Posted by thegoalie22

If I may ask, what is the actual reason of you having to do this?

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I'm simply asking for the furtherance of my own personal knowledge, if I ever breed BP's I'd like to be prepared in the event of such problems occurring.

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Originally Posted by Vader6

If it's going to die anywhere then there is no reason that it will become an invasive species to the area around it. Further more a BP will never be an issue even if they were released they are purely rodent eaters and don't get big enough to cause any issues to begin with. BP's might be taken away b/c of it's larger counter part snake brothers. BP's don't get big enough not to have a predator. Back on point I said to release it b/c if it had a illness that will cause it to die anyway might as well let it live out it's very short life exploring. Personal opinion.

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NEWSFLASH its illegal to release ANY non native animal! So if your sick and going to die should i release you into the ocean? I mean if your going to just die why not die swimming :rolleyes:.

We are here to promote RESPONSIBLE pet ownership not to promote the illegal release of an non native animal in the wild. (Obviously you have a lot to learn)

And some people wonder why politicians are trying to ban snakes :rolleyes:

Secondly as far as this forum goes here is a little reminder

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8. No posts promoting illegal behavior will be tolerated

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Originally Posted by Vader6

I would say a cleaver to the back of the neck where the head and body meet. Less gory I would think and would do the same thing.
Knocking him out with CO2 or N20 first would be better though.
I mean you could just let them go in the wild....

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Originally Posted by Vader6

If it's going to die anywhere then there is no reason that it will become an invasive species to the area around it. Further more a BP will never be an issue even if they were released they are purely rodent eaters and don't get big enough to cause any issues to begin with. BP's might be taken away b/c of it's larger counter part snake brothers. BP's don't get big enough not to have a predator. Back on point I said to release it b/c if it had a illness that will cause it to die anyway might as well let it live out it's very short life exploring. Personal opinion.

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Why do people always seem to think that the most humane thing for an animal is just to release it into the wild. I'm sorry, that snake is not going to enjoy its time out in the wild while it dies. Its going to either lay there and die of exposure or get eaten by a predator. Not only that, its illegal.

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Originally Posted by Jay_Bunny

Why do people always seem to think that the most humane thing for an animal is just to release it into the wild. I'm sorry, that snake is not going to enjoy its time out in the wild while it dies. Its going to either lay there and die of exposure or get eaten by a predator. Not only that, its illegal.

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I thought he was a kid who does not know any better but he is 20 :O.

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Originally Posted by joepythons

NEWSFLASH its illegal to release ANY non native animal! So if your sick and going to die should i release you into the ocean? I mean if your going to just die why not die swimming :rolleyes:.

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Human > Snake.....if you don't see the value of a human life over a BP bred to be a pet/hobby animals then your just, well I'm gonna be nice and just say join PITA

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Originally Posted by Deborah

We are here to promote RESPONSIBLE pet ownership not to promote the illegal release of an non native animal in the wild. (Obviously you have a lot to learn)

And some people wonder why politicians are trying to ban snakes :rolleyes:

Secondly as far as this forum goes here is a little reminder

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My bad, I never said it was the best option just putting it out there. Never once said I would just informing ppl that even if it is it's not gonna become a invasive species for ppl who think that. But I do agree that it will look bad on the community if it is found, no doubt.

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Originally Posted by Jay_Bunny

Why do people always seem to think that the most humane thing for an animal is just to release it into the wild. I'm sorry, that snake is not going to enjoy its time out in the wild while it dies. Its going to either lay there and die of exposure or get eaten by a predator. Not only that, its illegal.

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Never said it was the most of least humane way to do that. And if your actually think YOU know what the SNAKE is gonna enjoy on it's last days of living your completely wrong. Humans as well as animals have a completely different mind set when death is in the near future. For instance some dogs go into the middle of no where to die alone. Humans want to the the most stupidest things known to man before they pass.....how do YOU know what it wants.

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Originally Posted by joepythons

I thought he was a kid who does not know any better but he is 20 :O.

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Point being what? I expressed a point that I didn't completely explain all the way through, and that was a my b. But TRUST me I am by FAR better in the know about anything in this sort of field I can promise you that. Now for snakes in general you got me pwned, and probs you to you for that. But BEFORE you start making actuation about someone knowing better be sure you dealing with a compete and utter moron before you do. B/c ppl like me who are actually in the know of these kinds of things. I was referring to ONE instance not IF this and IF that or IF this person also did it. I talking this guy this time IF the animals were to DIE very soon.
I do agree like I have stated, not to do it. So I will retract my statement on page 1 and leave it as it is.

FYI guys chillax a bit, it's a forum for goodness sakes......

Pleasure to have this conversation and sorry for the miscommunication on the topic. Back on topic this thread should go. :D

Am I the only one, or is the idea of what's humane or inhumane a matter of opinion? That is, until someone can point to factual science based evidence either way.

I dont think its about how we feel, but rather what the truth is, whatever that may be.

For anyone to criticize another for how they carry out their activities is a bad thing to do. There are many variables that go into each keeper or breeders setup.

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Originally Posted by Vader6

Human > Snake.....if you don't see the value of a human life over a BP bred to be a pet/hobby animals then your just, well I'm gonna be nice and just say join PITA



My bad, I never said it was the best option just putting it out there. Never once said I would just informing ppl that even if it is it's not gonna become a invasive species for ppl who think that. But I do agree that it will look bad on the community if it is found, no doubt.



Never said it was the most of least humane way to do that. And if your actually think YOU know what the SNAKE is gonna enjoy on it's last days of living your completely wrong. Humans as well as animals have a completely different mind set when death is in the near future. For instance some dogs go into the middle of no where to die alone. Humans want to the the most stupidest things known to man before they pass.....how do YOU know what it wants.



Point being what? I expressed a point that I didn't completely explain all the way through, and that was a my b. But TRUST me I am by FAR better in the know about anything in this sort of field I can promise you that. Now for snakes in general you got me pwned, and probs you to you for that. But BEFORE you start making actuation about someone knowing better be sure you dealing with a compete and utter moron before you do. B/c ppl like me who are actually in the know of these kinds of things. I was referring to ONE instance not IF this and IF that or IF this person also did it. I talking this guy this time IF the animals were to DIE very soon.
I do agree like I have stated, not to do it. So I will retract my statement on page 1 and leave it as it is.

FYI guys chillax a bit, it's a forum for goodness sakes......

Pleasure to have this conversation and sorry for the miscommunication on the topic. Back on topic this thread should go. :D

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First it's PETA, not PITA. And I think there are very few people on here that agree with PETA's or HSUS's motives.

You never had to say it was the best option. That's not what people are getting upset about. The fact that you would recommend that or even 'put it out there' is illegal, and part of the reason why we are at the risk of losing our hobby altogether.

To be honest, I only understood about half of that post. So, if you were trying to say that you would never do that and you don't think that anyone else should do that then forgive me.

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Originally Posted by BrandonsBalls

Am I the only one, or is the idea of what's humane or inhumane a matter of opinion? That is, until someone can point to factual science based evidence either way.

I dont think its about how we feel, but rather what the truth is, whatever that may be.

For anyone to criticize another for how they carry out their activities is a bad thing to do. There are many variables that go into each keeper or breeders setup.

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I agree. I don't think that the reptiles have the capability of realizing what is happening when being frozen, because they are cold blooded and all their senses are slowed until they go unconscious.

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

First it's PETA, not PITA. And I think there are very few people on here that agree with PETA's or HSUS's motives.

You never had to say it was the best option. That's not what people are getting upset about. The fact that you would recommend that or even 'put it out there' is illegal, and part of the reason why we are at the risk of losing our hobby altogether.

To be honest, I only understood about half of that post. So, if you were trying to say that you would never do that and you don't think that anyone else should do that then forgive me.

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Didn't know ppl were going to get all uppity about it, I mean damn. OUR hobby has nothing to do with BP's or them entering or not entering the wild. And I feel if the snake is gonna die and u wanna let it outside and roam for a day and then it die and be eaten by something. DO IT. Now if you wanna just release it cuz it's not eating, u don't like it, or anything that is not gonna have it die VERY soon then yea don't do it. THAT is my pt. Idc if ppl agree with it or not, or if it's illegal or not. That is the only circumstance I think it is right to do it. Cuz i personally think the snake would be happier exploring. Your responsibility as a handler is to make your snakes happy and I think if it's gonna die soon then that is what will make it happy. So keep neg repping me cuz that's what I think.

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Originally Posted by Vader6

Didn't know ppl were going to get all uppity about it, I mean damn. OUR hobby has nothing to do with BP's or them entering or not entering the wild. And I feel if the snake is gonna die and u wanna let it outside and roam for a day and then it die and be eaten by something. DO IT. Now if you wanna just release it cuz it's not eating, u don't like it, or anything that is not gonna have it die VERY soon then yea don't do it. THAT is my pt. Idc if ppl agree with it or not, or if it's illegal or not. That is the only circumstance I think it is right to do it. Cuz i personally think the snake would be happier exploring. Your responsibility as a handler is to make your snakes happy and I think if it's gonna die soon then that is what will make it happy. So keep neg repping me cuz that's what I think.

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That's just the problem, it is never acceptable to release any animal...

For those who smash the head of the snake, how do you even stand to do so? I know I could never do this, and since I'm going to breed, I'd rather spend money to get the snake humanely euthanized rather than witness the horror of smashing a baby snake's head. I respect and love snakes way to much to do anything horrible to them.. Like smashing the head, freezing, cutting off the head, C02, etc.

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Originally Posted by Vader6

Didn't know ppl were going to get all uppity about it, I mean damn. OUR hobby has nothing to do with BP's or them entering or not entering the wild. And I feel if the snake is gonna die and u wanna let it outside and roam for a day and then it die and be eaten by something. DO IT. Now if you wanna just release it cuz it's not eating, u don't like it, or anything that is not gonna have it die VERY soon then yea don't do it. THAT is my pt. Idc if ppl agree with it or not, or if it's illegal or not. That is the only circumstance I think it is right to do it. Cuz i personally think the snake would be happier exploring. Your responsibility as a handler is to make your snakes happy and I think if it's gonna die soon then that is what will make it happy. So keep neg repping me cuz that's what I think.

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Please Vader6 don't get to that point of exiling yourself from the knowledge that is available on this site. But the thought of releasing the animal into the wild should be understood as illegal. That is why you see all the adds to stop the reptile ban. Because people thought the same way, and now we have an epic problem here in Florida with Burmese pythons. That mind state of Burmese python problem doesn't transfer well with the uneducated public. They associate all non-native snakes as problems.

Not at all an attack on you, I just want you to think about the hot water we are in as hobbyists of ball pythons, because of irresponsible owners doing what you suggested.

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

I agree. I don't think that the reptiles have the capability of realizing what is happening when being frozen, because they are cold blooded and all their senses are slowed until they go unconscious.

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This is a nice thought, but it's not a realistic thought. Do humans feel pain when they are hypothermic? Of course they do.

Ball pythons brumate. They do not fall asleep. They are awake when they're cold. They're slow, but they're awake. If you don't think a cold snake can sense and react to its surroundings, poke one with a pin. I guarantee you it will flinch--it's perfectly capable of feeling pain.
The snake may be incapable of moving at some point, but that doesn't mean it isn't feeling anything any longer. I don't know where you got the idea that nerve impulses were absent when it's cold.

I dont see the problem at all with smashing its head. Sometimes i have to knock my rats out with a knife and they get all messed up. I mean i would rather kill it than know i let some frankenstein snake live for a short period of time.

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Originally Posted by Vader6

Point being what? I expressed a point that I didn't completely explain all the way through, and that was a my b. But TRUST me I am by FAR better in the know about anything in this sort of field I can promise you that. Now for snakes in general you got me pwned, and probs you to you for that. But BEFORE you start making actuation about someone knowing better be sure you dealing with a compete and utter moron before you do. B/c ppl like me who are actually in the know of these kinds of things. I was referring to ONE instance not IF this and IF that or IF this person also did it. I talking this guy this time IF the animals were to DIE very soon.
I do agree like I have stated, not to do it. So I will retract my statement on page 1 and leave it as it is.

FYI guys chillax a bit, it's a forum for goodness sakes......

Pleasure to have this conversation and sorry for the miscommunication on the topic. Back on topic this thread should go. :D

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Point being if you were a kid then we could just say you dont know any better and help you understand.Since your an adult :rolleyes:.Now for the rest of your gibberish YOU DO NOT MAKE ANY SENSE :weirdface.

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Originally Posted by Vader6

Didn't know ppl were going to get all uppity about it, I mean damn. OUR hobby has nothing to do with BP's or them entering or not entering the wild. And I feel if the snake is gonna die and u wanna let it outside and roam for a day and then it die and be eaten by something. DO IT. Now if you wanna just release it cuz it's not eating, u don't like it, or anything that is not gonna have it die VERY soon then yea don't do it. THAT is my pt. Idc if ppl agree with it or not, or if it's illegal or not. That is the only circumstance I think it is right to do it. Cuz i personally think the snake would be happier exploring. Your responsibility as a handler is to make your snakes happy and I think if it's gonna die soon then that is what will make it happy. So keep neg repping me cuz that's what I think.

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Why dont you just stop showing your ignorance :weirdface.You can not be in this hobby and love reptiles like we do and say over and over they would be better off dieing by being eaten by something.I think you are working for the idiots that are trying to cease our hobby and ask everyone to stop responding to your stupid comments.

Hey guys, I really don't mean to be rude, I know we are all very passionate about this hobby - however I'd like to stick to the topic at hand without too much argument. If you could maybe finish your discussion in another topic or through private messages :)

Joepythons do you have any advice for culling a hatchling?

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Originally Posted by joepythons

Why dont you just stop showing your ignorance :weirdface.You can not be in this hobby and love reptiles like we do and say over and over they would be better off dieing by being eaten by something.I think you are working for the idiots that are trying to cease our hobby and ask everyone to stop responding to your stupid comments.

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But yet you keep responding............take own advice instead of trying to win petty arguments. You'll get further in life. I know you don't see YOUR own ignorance in this whole topic but ppl as closed mind as yourself seldom do. Yet again another life lesson for you.
And I'm done with this thread and if this exiles me from the forum well ya'll are just a bunch of 2 yr old who need to get over petty stuff and do what you joined a forum like this to do........help, give advice, show some cool stuff or ask some questions.

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Originally Posted by kjinxx2

Hey guys, I really don't mean to be rude, I know we are all very passionate about this hobby - however I'd like to stick to the topic at hand without too much argument. If you could maybe finish your discussion in another topic or through private messages :)

Joepythons do you have any advice for culling a hatchling?

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Already said that 2 pages back.............

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Originally Posted by kjinxx2

Hey guys, I really don't mean to be rude, I know we are all very passionate about this hobby - however I'd like to stick to the topic at hand without too much argument. If you could maybe finish your discussion in another topic or through private messages :)

Joepythons do you have any advice for culling a hatchling?

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Yes take it to a vet and have it done ;)

I also vote on taking it to the vet to have it euthanized, but I am still researching on how to humanely cull a hatchling. I froze the one that didn't make it from last season, but he was so near death, it was more humane to put him in the freezer right then than take the time to set up an appointment at the vet and drive over there to have it done. He was just too far gone. Its good thought that you are researching this BEFORE breeding. I didn't and wasn't prepared for having to cull that little hatchling. A lot of people think breeding is "Oh look at the pretty albino that just hatched out!" but there are the dark moments when you realize you have to end a life for the good of the animal. :( Its sad but its part of breeding. Any hatchlings this season that need to be euthanized are going to the vet.

A mod needs to put this in the quarantine room ASAP

I had to cull one hatchling last season--she was born with one eye, blind in the other, and with a deformed jaw and minor ataxia. She was unable to feed on her own. All she had to look forward to was a life of assist-feeding at best, which didn't seem like any life at all for a snake. It was extremely sad, as we tried all we could to get her started in the hopes she could go to a pet home. It just wasn't to be. These things happen whenever you work with breeding animals. There will always be a few that just aren't going to make it.

This is definitely something for people to keep in mind before they breed their animals--that day is going to come, and you have to be prepared for it.

I have a flash freezer so I use that. It takes about 2 minutes for a hatchling to be frozen solid... I did test it with a still born before ever using it for such situations and through luck have only used it once since then. With that in mind and this being, the fastest way that causes the least amount of mess and has the least chance of human error in my opinion, would be the most humane. As to anything else I have had numerous snakes put down by a vet and no matter which vet I took them to, exotics vet, normal vet, or even reptile vets that I trust, There was atleast a 5-10 minute wait for the animal to die. To me that is not right. The faster the better. It may cause a little pain but not as much as I have seen from a vet or any other form of euthanization.

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Originally Posted by Jay_Bunny

I also vote on taking it to the vet to have it euthanized, but I am still researching on how to humanely cull a hatchling. I froze the one that didn't make it from last season, but he was so near death, it was more humane to put him in the freezer right then than take the time to set up an appointment at the vet and drive over there to have it done. He was just too far gone. Its good thought that you are researching this BEFORE breeding. I didn't and wasn't prepared for having to cull that little hatchling. A lot of people think breeding is "Oh look at the pretty albino that just hatched out!" but there are the dark moments when you realize you have to end a life for the good of the animal. :( Its sad but its part of breeding. Any hatchlings this season that need to be euthanized are going to the vet.

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Great post! I was just thinking...oye...wow...I never thought of that and hope I never have to do that when I do get the chance to breed. I do think if it came to it.....I would take it to the vet.

Jay_Bunny, I've thought of the same thing. I think that's the only time I would put a snake in a freezer: if I believe it will experience more pain waiting for the vet appointment than it would in the freezer. Yes, it's a judgment call, but it's a good one as long as one is focusing on the well-being of the animal and not on effort, cost, and/or convenience.

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Originally Posted by tattlife2001

I have a flash freezer so I use that. It takes about 2 minutes for a hatchling to be frozen solid... I did test it with a still born before ever using it for such situations and through luck have only used it once since then. With that in mind and this being, the fastest way that causes the least amount of mess and has the least chance of human error in my opinion, would be the most humane. As to anything else I have had numerous snakes put down by a vet and no matter which vet I took them to, exotics vet, normal vet, or even reptile vets that I trust, There was atleast a 5-10 minute wait for the animal to die. To me that is not right. The faster the better. It may cause a little pain but not as much as I have seen from a vet or any other form of euthanization.

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I can't say I know what a flash freezer uses to freeze stuff, but two minutes is still plenty of time to feel pain. The AVMA doesn't even recommend liquid nitrogen (LN2) for reptiles above ~40 grams (I don't recall the exact weight), and LN2 is 40 Kelvin!

Faster is not always better. Freezing in a normal freezer may sometimes be faster than taking it to a vet, but that doesn't mean the animal feels less pain in the freezer. The point isn't necessarily speed--it's the amount of pain the animal has to feel. Since vets euthanize by injecting a sedative, the only pain the animal feels is the injection. After that, the animal goes unconscious; even if it takes 10 minutes for the animal to die, it's not feeling anything during that time.

Something else I found interesting when I first looked this stuff up several months ago: Freezing is humane if the reptile is sedated first. Food for thought.

Having worked in an abattoir there are various options available to instantly dispatch an animal of any size..it all depends on the emotions of the individual..freezing an animal seems quite slow, in saying that snakes are cold blooded, I would imagine as the body temp dropped they would simply fall asleep..decapitating any animal would be instant..not nice I agree but instant none the less